New AD&D hack tabletop rpg needs beta testers!

[lordzoma]

About two years ago I created a hack to AD&D second edition that transforms it into a totally new role playing system. I also created a simple standard campaign world that incorporates the way the new system works.

Over the course of time I have beta tested this system with my gaming groups and have reached the point where I have worked out all the kinks and am in the process of writing the game manual. It will be finished within the course of the next few days, and will shortly be released to the internet on a web page complete with a forum to discuss the system. The manual is, of course, free.


What I am looking for here are people who know how to play table top pencil and paper rpgs and are willing to read the manual asap and beta test the game.

The manual explains exactly how the system works and is all anyone needs to be able to start playing the game. An understanding of second edition ad&d helps, but otherwise the manual covers all the basics.

We could use this thread to handle things in the beginning, but ideally after people who have table top rpg gaming groups that sign up in this thread to play the game, will be amongst the people who will help me build up a collection of new skills and directions the game can take on the forum for the game. You will understand what I mean after you learn the system.


---- OK! That covers the basics. I haven't ranted about how absolutely cool this system is, and I haven't explained how this takes crappy ad&d and turns it into a universal role playing system that is more fun and interactive than any other system ever created.

I am finishing up the manual right now, but if anyone happens to sign up I am more than willing to shoot them over a copy of the manual in an unfinished state just so people can get the jump on how the system works.

Solely for the purpose of explaining the game, I am going to copy and paste the foreword to the manual.

Thankyou for listening! And I hope some of you are interested in playing my game and helping it grow!

*******

Max Out RPG

Max Out is a universal role playing system with extremely aggressive character growth and totally unique skill trees with endless possibilities. It is a hack for AD&D 2nd edition and is any munchkins wet dream and nightmare combined. It will make combat faster and more powerful than ever. With Max Out no two characters will ever be alike again. Chances are they won't even be remotely similar after a few sessions. With Max Out cookie cutter is a thing of the past. Play one game of Max Out and you will never go back to regular AD&D again.

Foreword:

I used to run a Final Fantasy campaign with AD&D 2nd edition that took place in a campaign world which incorporated all of the squaresoft games. Since each game had its own system of combat and utilized different things (like materia, guardian spirits, summoning, ability points, items that used ability points) I had to come up with different ways that each system could be incorporated into AD&D. The campaign flourished and lasted for a long time, but there were a few blaring problems that existed. Due to tons of different abilities and factors, calculating damage would take a long time.

Calculators became the norm and combat slowed down tediously. For any game this can spell doom for an attempt at keeping a fast pace, and can whittle away suspension built by good story. Another problem was that it was difficult to determine just what new abilities would be gained after each level up. This would be very taxing for any game master trying to come up with different progressions on the fly. I became dedicated to solving these problems and creating a streamlined rpg hack that would incorporate every different unique character progression as well as make combat much quicker. Meanwhile, Rogue Galaxy for Playstation 2 was due to be released and I was desperate to create a new system and campaign. Thus Max Out was born.

Requirements:

The only things needed to play Max Out is 6 sided, 10 sided, and 20 sided dice, and basic understanding of the way AD&D works in second addition. A second edition players handbook would be ideal, but the only thing it is ever used for is bonuses gained from attributes, so a 3rd edition players handbook can be substituted.

Anyone who has never played AD&D before could easily start playing Max Out. While the spells and the modifiers for attributes in the players handbooks are used in my gaming group, it is possible to use many different styles of magic in the system, and attribute modifiers could easily be made up or copied from a web site. Once you know how to play Max Out you could easily play without any books. All you need is a knowledge of the system.

[bluegrazz]

2nd Edition, huh? With THACO and all?

I'm certainly interested in, learning more- I hate the D20 system (3.0 and up) and thought 2nd Edition was by far the best system. I was a huge pen and paper role player from about the 2nd grade (the Old Basic D&D "red box") through College- But honestly dont have (and havnt had) people to game with since around 1998.

You ever think about trying to put together a Virtual Tabletop to Beta the game whilst online- I would for sure be interested. I used to be the DM of our little nerd group so I am very familiar with 2nd Ed rules (and 3rd as well but I havnt ran a 3rd ed, group) but since I really dont know anyone who plays anymore (or would even try) for me to Beta test "at home" would be impossible.

Let me know if you might consider putting together something like a Virtual Tabletop because I have been dying to do some real RP for years. I am also very interested in game mechanics so even if thats an impossibility I would love to see what you have come up with.

Anyhow - sounds damn creative and cool. Love hearing about someone into designing pen and paper games still. You have my respect.

[lordzoma]

Yeah, I would definitely run an online campaign to demo the way the game works with beta testers. After the manual gets completely written and the web page turned on I'll organize some games. It would probably be most convenient to run the game through an irc channel. We could use Mibbit.com and play on a common server like quakenet.org.

I also figure the forum I make could be used for gamers interested in playing the system but without a group of their own, can meet together and set up their own gaming groups on irc. Then I could play as a player in a game I created! Wee!

And yes, complete with Thac0 and everything, only it's completely revamped. Give me your e-mail address and I can send you the manual as it is thus far (I've got a couple more sections to finish before it's a complete first draft. This is minus editing, and a very limited number of 'examples.' Those will come later. First I have to put the entire system down on paper. I'm writing it as we speak.

Here's the section on Thac0 from the manual, if it doesn't scare you away.

THACO - It stands for "To Hit Armor Class Zero". This is the number that any character has to roll when attacking to hit an armor class (AC) of 0. This number begins at 20 and lowers itself by 1 every single time a character levels. Bonuses to hit will increase the number of the die roll. Gone are the days that different classes have their Thaco go down in different amounts. A cleric, a thief, a mage, and a fighter, will all have their Thaco go down equally. A character with a Thaco of 20 that rolls a 10 will hit an AC of 10. If that character had a bonus of +15 to hit, their roll of 10 is really a roll of 25, so they hit AC -5.

Once a character's Thaco is 10 (because they're 11th level) their Thaco will not decrease further. This is the lowest Thaco will go in Max Out. When a character with a Thaco of 10 goes up in level, their Thaco will gain a level, and become Level 1 Thaco and reset back to 20. This is the only way to increase your Thac0 in level. This means that a level 11 character with a 10 Thaco will be able to hit a lower armor class than a level 11 character with level 1 Thaco.

The reason for this is two-fold. First and foremost it is a limitation of the Thaco system that makes it more suitable for higher level campaigns. Instead of eventually always hitting your targets strictly due to your character level and lower Thaco, a character will have to rely on bonuses from skills and abilities to be able to hit their opponent. This makes the Thaco of your character or an opponent slightly random, and some higher level characters may be easier to defeat than others.

Secondly, the increase in level of Thaco allows for characters to target opponents that have a higher level AC. If a character with a level 0 Thaco attacks a character with level 1 AC, they will only be able to hit on a 20. As you go up in level for your Thaco, while you may not be able to hit level 0 AC opponents as easily, you will now be able to more easily target those with a level 1 AC. If the difference between the Thaco level and AC level is more than 1 then any hit with a roll of 20 will always do 1 damage and 1 damage only. So for a level 0 Thaco character attacking someone with a Level 2 AC, they'll always hit on a 20, but it will take a lot of time to get anywhere at 1 damage per hit.

Some magic spells and powerful items may give a character bonuses to their Thaco level. These bonuses will only apply to whether or not they can deal full damage. A bonus will never make it so that they can hit without rolling a 20. Only having your natural thaco level equal or higher than the AC level gives you the chance to hit without critting. So that level 0 Thaco character with a +1 Thaco level sword of awesome, will still need to roll that 20 to hit the level 2 AC guy, but they'll actually deal full damage. This essentially means that having bonuses to your Thaco level will never make it easier to hit anything, but will only help against the max damage limit.

I hope that makes sense.

* That will make more sense when you have read the manual up to that point, lol.

[lordzoma]

Here's the mythos section from the manual.

Mythos:

Max Out is a universal role playing system and can be played in any setting. The Wild West, modern spy, star wars, it has been played in many settings and works wonderfully. There is however a standard Max Out campaign setting, which borrows on the history of Rogue Galaxy and the Phantasy Star series. It is a mixture of Sci Fi and Fantasy that enables any game master to have a wide range of possibilities for campaign story arcs and individual stand alone scenarios.

In the reaches of space there exists a galaxy known as Rogue Galaxy. Unlike Star Wars which has a single Empire and Rebel faction paired against each other for control of the galaxy, or Star Trek which has large empires controlling sectors of space, Rogue Galaxy is a cacophany of pirate organizations, merchant federations, and empires of all sorts that struggle to survive against one another. Space lanes defended by certain groups only go so far before control switches off to another regional body. Travel too far from any space lane and you will be ripe picking for scavengers, pirates, orc raiding parties, or a host of alien creatures. Travel too far away and you will be amongst the many outlying planets that have no knowledge of happenings in the galaxy, or worse yet, no intergalactic technology. Get stranded and it could mean forever.

10,000 years ago in the galaxy there existed a legendary figure known as the Star King. He and his queen ruled over the galaxy without an empire. He was an independent figure head that protected the galaxy and lorded over it from a utopian planet known as Eden that would travel the galaxy. There existed in that time a mysterious being known as Dark Forces that threatened to destroy life in the Galaxy by colliding it with another. Though it succeeded in hurtling Rogue Galaxy towards a collision course, the Star King sacrificed his life to seal Dark Forces away for what he thought would be forever.

(The planet the Star King died on is now controlled by a powerful religious empire that rules from a floating continent. The planet is considered holy ground, is overrun by dinosaurs, and only priests may step upon it to slowly unlock the mysterious moneuments dedicated to the Star King. It is in a sector of space surrounded by a fiery nebula and endless asteroid fields, so that only a single heavily protected space lane passes nearby.)

When the Star King was killed he released all of his power and energy out into the galaxy. His power was absorbed into all living creatures. This power is attracted to itself and collects like dust balls inside all things that are alive. When something dies it releases the Star Kings power out into the universe, some of which gets absorbed by nearby creatures. In Max Out the energy of the Star King is called Tech.

Upon the Star King's death the Star Queen said goodbye to the inhabitants of Rogue Galaxy. She bestowed a blessing to all inhabitants of the galaxy and released all of her powers. The planet of Eden then cloaked into invisibility and vanished forever. If the energy of the Star King is yang and is gained from combat, the energy of the Star Queen is yin and is received from noncombat. The energy of the Star Queen is known in Max Out as Game Tech, and Story Tech.

Over the course of the next 9,000 years, Rogue Galaxy headed towards and collided into the galaxy known as Galaxy Corp, which unlike Rogue Galaxy is controlled by a handful of mega powerful intergalactic corporations that rule over their prospective territories like assets to be fiercely guarded and extremely exploited. The area where the two galaxies overlap is known as the Rift. It is riddled with star systems, asteroid fields, and spatial distortions of all kinds. Because of the proximity of all gravity wells given off by planets and stars there is no single space lane across the Rift. For thousands of years adventurers, explorers, and merchants journeyed into the rift seeking to reach the other galaxy, but Orcs arrived in great numbers and flourished. Today the Rift is completely overrun by Orc worlds all vying for power against each other. One would have to be insane or extremely powerful to journey into the Rift. Furthermor, travel across the rift would take several years, as hyperdrive travel is not practical.

1,000 years ago a wormhole opened up between Rogue Galaxy and Galaxy Corp. If the rift exists 1/4 towards each galactic center, the wormhole is 1/2 the distance towards each respective galactic center. It opens up for 3 days each standard year, allows for travel both ways, and is wide enough to encompass a planet. Travel is similar to a stargate and is near instantaneous. It is not possible to stop inside the wormhole and no ship has ever been trapped inside it. When the wormhole first opened up, the energy of the Star King and Star Queen, tech, game tech, and story tech, flooded into Galaxy Corp. Until then none of its energy had entered Galaxy Corp, and characters made in Galaxy Corp at that time would not have access to any tech until they crossed halfway through the rift into Rogue Galaxy, which was at that time the most heavily guarded orc territories. If a character was in Galaxy Corp and they already had tech, they would not be able to gain any tech, even from enemies that had tech inside of them. Should anyone die, their tech would be lost forever.

The highest level technology in Rogue Galaxy is medieval and Renaissance by design. Like the video game Rogue Galaxy, the most expensive ships available appear to be large fantasy style wooden ships, complete with sails. Ships are protected from the atmosphere of space by magnetic shields. Interplanetary travel uses wormholes created by a hyperdrive that open up to hyperspace. Inside hyperspace ships can interact with other ships also in hyperspace. Unlike Star Wars ships cannot be trapped in hyperspace. If the engine fails the ship will fall out of hyperspace. If you're on deck of a ship in hyperspace and jump off the side, you will decellerate into normal space and be travelling at a fairly slow speed. Technology in Galaxy Corp is less aesthetic and focuses instead on function and efficiency. Their best ships are similar to the Borg. Cubes, pyramids, and cylinders are the norm.

In Rogue Galaxy magic is considered common. Many are the empire that uses magic in every way possible to protect itself. Alchemical magic is a valuable commodity, and priestly magic is the backbone of much of the religious organizations. In Galaxy Corp magic is anathema. It is widely persecuted against and bounty hunters are frequently employed to track down any magic users that don't have the proper licenses to travel in Galaxy Corp.

Game Masters that use this campaign setting are encouraged to use their imagination to take it in any direction they like for their gaming group. Each galaxy is large enough to take advantage of endless possibilities for adventures, and multi - gm groups can flourish as the added space will keep any gm from stepping on the toes of anothers storyline.

[lordzoma]

Registering the domain name tomorrow. Formatting some demo character sheets. Getting some artwork done for the background and bringing the forum online.

MaxOutRPG.com should be online by monday.

[bluegrazz]

bump

PM sent. Thanks, sounds awesome.

[lordzoma]

MaxOutRPG.com will be online within a few hours.

In the meanwhile the manual is now available at the forums.

MaxOutRPG.proboards.com

[bluegrazz]

Do you plan on publishing? What I have seen here puts your game well above alot of the RPG "shit" which crowds the shelves of my bookstore- seriously. I would really be thinking big if I were you (you may havta even move away from 2nd Ed. to avoid copyright issues) but I think your really onto something here.

Very well written- You should be (perhaps you are) a professional writer.

-See ya on your site.

[lordzoma]

Well I'm certainly a writer - I'm working on that professional part right now!

Thanks for your compliments. I'm sure you'll enjoy playing the game as much as I enjoyed creating it.

Did you know that the d20 system is actually open license? I could publish my material right now and I wouldn't be stepping on any toes. (Of course not to get in SquareEnix's way I'd have to change some names to protect the innocent, like Star King, Eden, and Rogue Galaxy. Big deal. What's in a name anyway?

This game was made to be for free. Since it is a game with open ended character progression it is best suited to have a forum like the one I made that is dedicated to having players post all of the stuff they have come up with.

If it actually becomes popular then maybe one day I'll publish a big compendium of the manual and all the skills and abilities and whatnot people have created over the time the game's been around.

But seriously thanks for the compliments. All the people I've actually gamed with love the system, but so far I've gotten mixed critical reviews from the few people who have stumbled across the game thus far. I think it's just people who expect one thing and are shocked to find it's something else.

The beauty of the game is in how it plays not really how it reads.

The best thing you could do for me blue is just to spread it around like wildfire. I'm not really gaining much out of it other than the fun of having people play my game. That's all I want anyway. It's like 'gifting' the AD&D community. 10,000th player gets some free orgonite!

PS - hmm I realized a couple things that should be in there. My house rule on charging and some stuff on opposition rolls. I'll do that tomorrow.

[kblood]

My cousin is planning to try an make a browser MMORPG game, and I think he will try to make it with AD&D like rules, but not sure yet. I will propose these rules for him, since I also like second edition, even though I never looked much into these editions as I have only really played AD&D after it became digital games.

[lordzoma]

The only problem with applying these rules to an mmorpg is that they are designed for intuitive role playing by being able to come up with abilities and skills whenever you want that apply to whatever direction you want to take your characters in, and then being able to combine those skills together to create totally new skills, and so on and so on.

If you were to turn it into a video game, it would need a TON of skills and a huge gigantic skill tree. Of course for the video game, the idea of combining two things could give a partial bonus of one and a larger bonus of the other, and just incrementally increase that as it went up.

It could be done really well and really tastefully and having a huge skill tree with tons of fusion possibilities could be the best mmorpg ever. Maybe it'll fly with him. Who knows! The sky's the limit.

[kblood]

Does sound intriguing. And I guess new D20 system or AD&D edition... what is it today? Is it still just 3rd or have they given the new rules new numbers? But the system they use for Never Winter Nights, Dragon Age, Knights of the Old Republic etc. these systems were made to make it easier to use them digitally. Which I guess would be very useful when making a digital RPG.

Still I think basing this MMORPG on some variation of the 2nd edition rules would be simpler. Being a browser game it could be nice to make it something like the DOS AD&D RPG games, I really enjoyed those and have been thinking about if it would be possible to make them as an MMO in some way. That is what my cousin will be trying to make I think.

[aratron]

About two years ago I created a hack to AD&D second edition that transforms it into a totally new role playing system. I also created a simple standard campaign world that incorporates the way the new system works.

Over the course of time I have beta tested this system with my gaming groups and have reached the point where I have worked out all the kinks and am in the process of writing the game manual. It will be finished within the course of the next few days, and will shortly be released to the internet on a web page complete with a forum to discuss the system. The manual is, of course, free.


What I am looking for here are people who know how to play table top pencil and paper rpgs and are willing to read the manual asap and beta test the game.

The manual explains exactly how the system works and is all anyone needs to be able to start playing the game. An understanding of second edition ad&d helps, but otherwise the manual covers all the basics.

We could use this thread to handle things in the beginning, but ideally after people who have table top rpg gaming groups that sign up in this thread to play the game, will be amongst the people who will help me build up a collection of new skills and directions the game can take on the forum for the game. You will understand what I mean after you learn the system.


---- OK! That covers the basics. I haven't ranted about how absolutely cool this system is, and I haven't explained how this takes crappy ad&d and turns it into a universal role playing system that is more fun and interactive than any other system ever created.

I am finishing up the manual right now, but if anyone happens to sign up I am more than willing to shoot them over a copy of the manual in an unfinished state just so people can get the jump on how the system works.

Solely for the purpose of explaining the game, I am going to copy and paste the foreword to the manual.

Thankyou for listening! And I hope some of you are interested in playing my game and helping it grow!

*******

Max Out RPG

Max Out is a universal role playing system with extremely aggressive character growth and totally unique skill trees with endless possibilities. It is a hack for AD&D 2nd edition and is any munchkins wet dream and nightmare combined. It will make combat faster and more powerful than ever. With Max Out no two characters will ever be alike again. Chances are they won't even be remotely similar after a few sessions. With Max Out cookie cutter is a thing of the past. Play one game of Max Out and you will never go back to regular AD&D again.

Foreword:

I used to run a Final Fantasy campaign with AD&D 2nd edition that took place in a campaign world which incorporated all of the squaresoft games. Since each game had its own system of combat and utilized different things (like materia, guardian spirits, summoning, ability points, items that used ability points) I had to come up with different ways that each system could be incorporated into AD&D. The campaign flourished and lasted for a long time, but there were a few blaring problems that existed. Due to tons of different abilities and factors, calculating damage would take a long time.

Calculators became the norm and combat slowed down tediously. For any game this can spell doom for an attempt at keeping a fast pace, and can whittle away suspension built by good story. Another problem was that it was difficult to determine just what new abilities would be gained after each level up. This would be very taxing for any game master trying to come up with different progressions on the fly. I became dedicated to solving these problems and creating a streamlined rpg hack that would incorporate every different unique character progression as well as make combat much quicker. Meanwhile, Rogue Galaxy for Playstation 2 was due to be released and I was desperate to create a new system and campaign. Thus Max Out was born.

Requirements:

The only things needed to play Max Out is 6 sided, 10 sided, and 20 sided dice, and basic understanding of the way AD&D works in second addition. A second edition players handbook would be ideal, but the only thing it is ever used for is bonuses gained from attributes, so a 3rd edition players handbook can be substituted.

Anyone who has never played AD&D before could easily start playing Max Out. While the spells and the modifiers for attributes in the players handbooks are used in my gaming group, it is possible to use many different styles of magic in the system, and attribute modifiers could easily be made up or copied from a web site. Once you know how to play Max Out you could easily play without any books. All you need is a knowledge of the system.

i played ad and d second edition for years.

i'll have a look.