Started to write a book about Lucifer..

[fallensoul]

Chapter 1 - Meeting the demon!

I woke up, the sun came high enough to blind me through the curtains. Yet again I thought why the fuck I haven't went ahead and got myself those black curtains to block out the bastard. I felt so god damn tired, my eyes looked very unhealthy, well I never cared anyway. My apartment reminded me instantly of my massive failures in everything I ever tried my hand in. Messy, and nothing was in it's rightful place. Well I don't really give shit, but it pissed me off anyway. So I checked out my phone, and computer, there was no messages, no one missed me, well I wasn't surprised I was glad since it was a sign that the world is still the same. The calendar on my fridge reminded me that I should work yet again. I don't know who I am kidding, I am a failed writer, nothing I ever did came out right, no one gives a shit, I have no stories, my life is miserable and unimportant. But I was determined to write that one book, that would pay me my dreams. Well I brushed my teeth, took a quick shower, contemplated on masturbating but was instantly reminded of the sweet reality of porn, and decided to hold my urges. I wonder why I even bother to wash myself in that bathroom, if anything I imagine it would make me even more filthy, but atleast the water is clean. I didn't even eat anything, not that there would have been anything worth eating. I am not depressed, I am just amused, how could my life have become something like this.

Well finally I went ahead and looked up and the skies of New York, nevermind, theres nothing to see. I went to my favourite Starbucks I have gotten used to that place. The waitresses are always as attractive as ever. I flirt with them constantly but I have a gut feeling that they wish I never came back, yet I go there, if nothing I am persistent as a cockroach. The place was not packed, good, I couldn't stand all the ridiculous people running their rat races thinking they are onto something anyway, pisses me off. My favourite corner was unoccupied, I guess I have left a smell there so people kind of avoid going there, I guess it is instincts and the unconscious ability to smell things, or something. I didn't even bother to order, I knew that the waitress would soon come bring me cup of coffee, black with five sugar cubes. Then she would fake a smile and get out as fast as possible. I would always smile back but it all seemed like a rerun of the Bold and the Beautiful. The table was clean as always, I can appreciate them for that if nothing else, and maybe for remembering what I drink, since I keep coming there like a kid into the candy store.

I flipped my laptop open and opened my word document, right when I was about to get ahold of my thoughts I heard a voice inside my head. It said "hey you pathetic creation". I spat some coffee on the laptop, I thought I finally lost it from all the isolation I had went through. Then my eyes immediately looked over to the door, I don't know why, I felt like I was going to witness something. Then a fairly young looking man opened the door, well I was initially very confused wether he was a man or a woman, could have been either. He was dressed in casual clothes, looked like any of those trendy young people you see going around without brains. After he had closed the door behind him somehow the atmoshpere in the cafe became chilly and people got nervous for no reason, one of the waitresses spilled hot coffee on her hand and shouted "Fucking hell". The young man laughed briefly. What a prick, I thought to myself. Then he looked right into my eyes and I heard it again the same chilly voice "calm down you silly human". I instantly looked out the window trying to ignore what happened, it made no sense. I kept saying things like go away don't come here in my mind, thinking I must have entered some nightmare and I would soon wake up.

The man walked up to the counter and first thing he said I kid you not, this is what he said "Hey you there, how bout you come over here, make me a cup of coffee and give your phone number to me, I mean even tho I seen better looking females in my time I would still like to get it on with you". I thought to myself that now this arrogant little prick is going to hear it from the waitress. I was so sure of it, the man just briefly glanced at me and winked. I got confused but at the same time I couldn't take my eyes off what was going on. If I ever been wrong this was one of those times when the reality slapped me right across the face with a jackhammer. The waitress smiled and said "Well even though you seem like an arrogant fool I might give you a chance if you say please." The man responded "Who do you think you are? I am giving you a chance here, take it or leave it, and hurry up with the coffee". The woman looked bewildered like she had been caught redhanded from masturbating to images of her father or something. Her voice cracked a bit and she handed him the coffee and gave a piece of paper along with it, I first thought it was receipt but no. The man grabbed his cell phone threw the piece of paper away and said while smiling "why don't you save it right here along with your name just to make sure that I won't forget". The woman looked humble like she had been scolded, but she did what was told and jotted down the number on his cellphone. The man started looking around for tables. Then he looked at me again, for some reason I almost shit myself from his stare, maybe because I realized that he might be coming right where I am.

This time I was right, I got chills I had no idea what to expect what does this weird man want with me. The woman made a weird nervous noice and said something I couldn't really make out I think she said "call me". The man just took a quick look at her and smiled and proceeded to move towards my sacred corner. I felt like a priest whose church had been infiltrated by demonic forces. He sat on the table, face to face with me. Took a very relaxed position and casually said "Hello, are you afraid little man?". I almost wanted to laugh but I was really scared and I thought I am going insane, why the hell was I scared of this skinny young man. His appearance wasn't scary at all, now that he was next to me I could look at him closely. He had blond wavy hair, it was parted to the left. It was bit messy looking, very cool although I never pay attention to hair. He had earrings in both ears, three of them total. Very girly earrings at that. He was wearing a casual hoodie, and jeans. There was a crucifix on his neck which didn't really seem to belong there, or thats how I felt about it. His face was confusing. On the other hand he was very handsome but at the same time very beautiful. I realized why I was confused, this guy could pass as a female given the right attire. Then I realized that he called me a little man, mind you I was a bit overweight and easily taller than him and only after a short while I realized the absurdity of his comment. I really lost it and said in a very loud voice "Hey I saw you treat the waitress like a piece of shit and now you think you can call me what ever you want? Who the fuck do you think you are and why the fuck are you sitting right next to me". I saw some people smile and look my way but some looked me like I had just sentenced myself to eternal damnation. I was yet again confused. The man started just laughing.

I really had to restrain myself I was so close to jumping over the table to smack the little fucker. But something told me not to, I felt huge fear but I couldn't realize why. He stopped laughing. My face must have went completely white, I thought he was going to pull a gun or something. But no, he took a sip from his coffee and shouted to the waitress "this is nice, I guess starbucks is more than a franchice". The waitress blushed as if she had been complimented somehow and nodded. Then he turned back to me and said "I commend you on your courage to speak your mind, since you asked so sincerely I will tell you exactly who I am. You are a writer right?" I nodded. "And you can't write for shit right?" I nodded again, then realized what I did and was about to say something not so nice but he continued and I kept my words to myself. "Would you like to get guaranteed riches?" I nodded again and started feeling like a dog aknowledging commands from his master. "Well what do you say if I tell you my story and you write it down, I am kind of bored and really would like to share my life with someone... But! First there is a condition, you must never tell anyone that it wasn't your own creation, or else you will burn in hell." I was intrigued yet at the same time felt like this man is just mocking me "Who the fuck do you think you are again? Why would I give a shit about your life, you think you are the master of the underworld or some shit? Lord Satan himself, talking about sending people to hell when they do not obey you? Seriously?" Then I heard the voice in my head again and he said the exact same words what I was hearing "Good guess, I am the Devil, I go by many names, you can call me Lucifer, I prefer that one." Now this shit was way too weird for me, I freaked the shit out knocked over the cup of coffee and got my laptop and ran back home without saying a word. Before I exited the door I heard him shout "Same place, same time tomorrow!"

Copyright belongs to fallensoul

Should I continue?

[miracles]

Chapter 1 - Meeting the demon!

I woke up, the sun came high enough to blind me through the curtains. Yet again I thought why the fuck I haven't went ahead and got myself those black curtains to block out the bastard. I felt so god damn tired, my eyes looked very unhealthy, well I never cared anyway. My apartment reminded me instantly of my massive failures in everything I ever tried my hand in. Messy, and nothing was in it's rightful place. Well I don't really give shit, but it pissed me off anyway. So I checked out my phone, and computer, there was no messages, no one missed me, well I wasn't surprised I was glad since it was a sign that the world is still the same. The calendar on my fridge reminded me that I should work yet again. I don't know who I am kidding, I am a failed writer, nothing I ever did came out right, no one gives a shit, I have no stories, my life is miserable and unimportant. But I was determined to write that one book, that would pay me my dreams. Well I brushed my teeth, took a quick shower, contemplated on masturbating but was instantly reminded of the sweet reality of porn, and decided to hold my urges. I wonder why I even bother to wash myself in that bathroom, if anything I imagine it would make me even more filthy, but atleast the water is clean. I didn't even eat anything, not that there would have been anything worth eating. I am not depressed, I am just amused, how could my life have become something like this.

Well finally I went ahead and looked up and the skies of New York, nevermind, theres nothing to see. I went to my favourite Starbucks I have gotten used to that place. The waitresses are always as attractive as ever. I flirt with them constantly but I have a gut feeling that they wish I never came back, yet I go there, if nothing I am persistent as a cockroach. The place was not packed, good, I couldn't stand all the ridiculous people running their rat races thinking they are onto something anyway, pisses me off. My favourite corner was unoccupied, I guess I have left a smell there so people kind of avoid going there, I guess it is instincts and the unconscious ability to smell things, or something. I didn't even bother to order, I knew that the waitress would soon come bring me cup of coffee, black with five sugar cubes. Then she would fake a smile and get out as fast as possible. I would always smile back but it all seemed like a rerun of the Bold and the Beautiful. The table was clean as always, I can appreciate them for that if nothing else, and maybe for remembering what I drink, since I keep coming there like a kid into the candy store.

I flipped my laptop open and opened my word document, right when I was about to get ahold of my thoughts I heard a voice inside my head. It said "hey you pathetic creation". I spat some coffee on the laptop, I thought I finally lost it from all the isolation I had went through. Then my eyes immediately looked over to the door, I don't know why, I felt like I was going to witness something. Then a fairly young looking man opened the door, well I was initially very confused wether he was a man or a woman, could have been either. He was dressed in casual clothes, looked like any of those trendy young people you see going around without brains. After he had closed the door behind him somehow the atmoshpere in the cafe became chilly and people got nervous for no reason, one of the waitresses spilled hot coffee on her hand and shouted "Fucking hell". The young man laughed briefly. What a prick, I thought to myself. Then he looked right into my eyes and I heard it again the same chilly voice "calm down you silly human". I instantly looked out the window trying to ignore what happened, it made no sense. I kept saying things like go away don't come here in my mind, thinking I must have entered some nightmare and I would soon wake up.

The man walked up to the counter and first thing he said I kid you not, this is what he said "Hey you there, how bout you come over here, make me a cup of coffee and give your phone number to me, I mean even tho I seen better looking females in my time I would still like to get it on with you". I thought to myself that now this arrogant little prick is going to hear it from the waitress. I was so sure of it, the man just briefly glanced at me and winked. I got confused but at the same time I couldn't take my eyes off what was going on. If I ever been wrong this was one of those times when the reality slapped me right across the face with a jackhammer. The waitress smiled and said "Well even though you seem like an arrogant fool I might give you a chance if you say please." The man responded "Who do you think you are? I am giving you a chance here, take it or leave it, and hurry up with the coffee". The woman looked bewildered like she had been caught redhanded from masturbating to images of her father or something. Her voice cracked a bit and she handed him the coffee and gave a piece of paper along with it, I first thought it was receipt but no. The man grabbed his cell phone threw the piece of paper away and said while smiling "why don't you save it right here along with your name just to make sure that I won't forget". The woman looked humble like she had been scolded, but she did what was told and jotted down the number on his cellphone. The man started looking around for tables. Then he looked at me again, for some reason I almost shit myself from his stare, maybe because I realized that he might be coming right where I am.

This time I was right, I got chills I had no idea what to expect what does this weird man want with me. The woman made a weird nervous noice and said something I couldn't really make out I think she said "call me". The man just took a quick look at her and smiled and proceeded to move towards my sacred corner. I felt like a priest whose church had been infiltrated by demonic forces himself. He sat on the table, face to face with me. Took a very relaxed position and casually said "Hello, are you afraid little man?". I almost wanted to laugh but I was really scared and I thought I am going insane, why the hell was I scared of this skinny young man. His appearance wasn't scary at all, now that he was next to me I could look at him closely. He had blond wavy hair, it was parted to the left. It was bit messy looking, very cool although I never pay attention to hair. He had earrings in both ears, three of them total. Very girly earrings at that. He was wearing a casual hoodie, and jeans. There was a crucifix on his neck which didn't really seem to belong there, or thats how I felt about it. His face was confusing. On the other hand he was very handsome but at the same time very beautiful. I realized why I was confused, this guy could pass as a female given the right attire. Then I realized that he called me a little man, mind you I was a bit overweight and easily taller than him and only after a short while I realized the absurdity of his comment. I really lost it and said in a very loud voice "Hey I saw you treat the waitress like a piece of shit and now you think you can call me what ever you want? Who the fuck do you think you are and why the fuck are you sitting right next to me". I saw some people smile and look my way but some looked me like I had just sentenced myself to eternal damnation. I was yet again confused. The man started just laughing.

I really had to restrain myself I was so close to jumping over the table to smack the little fucker. But something told me not to, I felt huge fear but I couldn't realize why. He stopped laughing. My face must have went completely white, I thought he was going to pull a gun or something. But no, he took a sip from his coffee and shouted to the waitress "this is nice, I guess starbucks is more than a franchice". The waitress blushed as if she had been complimented somehow and nodded. Then he turned back to me and said "I commend you on your courage to speak your mind, since you asked so sincerely I will tell you exactly who I am. You are a writer right?" I nodded. "And you can't write for shit right?" I nodded again, then realized what I did and was about to say something not so nice but he continued and I kept my words to myself. "Would you like to get guaranteed riches?" I nodded again and started feeling like a dog aknowledging commands from his master. "Well what do you say if I tell you my story and you write it down, I am kind of bored and really would like to share my life with someone... But! First there is a condition, you must never tell anyone that it wasn't your own creation, or else you will burn in hell." I was intrigued yet at the same time felt like this man is just mocking me "Who the fuck do you think you are again? Why would I give a shit about your life, you think you are the master of the underworld or some shit? Lord Satan himself, talking about sending people to hell when they do not obey you? Seriously?" Then I heard the voice in my head again and he said the exact same words what I was hearing "Good guess, I am the Devil, I go by many names, you can call me Lucifer, I prefer that one." Now this shit was way too weird for me, I freaked the shit out knocked over the cup of coffee and got my laptop and ran back home without saying a word. Before I exited the door I heard him shout "Same place, same time tomorrow!"

Copyright belongs to fallensoul

Should I continue?

Yes but no more masturbation. (and much less swearing)

[stfd]

Outa curiosity...
Why would you wanna write anything about satan?
Why not write somethin about God instead?

[fallensoul]

God has his own book, I wanna write a book to tell the story from devils perspective. Combine it with all the new agey shit, conspiracies, sumerian myths, all that jazz, space aliens. Make it a huge epic with a super complex plot :)

God will have a part in this book, naturally :)

[miracles]

God has his own book, I wanna write a book to tell the story from devils perspective. Combine it with all the new agey shit, conspiracies, sumerian myths, all that jazz, space aliens. Make it a huge epic with a super complex plot :)

God will have a part in this book, naturally :)

I was asking to the lady who owns the second hand book store whats popular she said alien love stories are real popular. IE making it with an alien, mills and boon type stuff. Go figure, who'd a thunk it??

[stfd]

God has his own book, I wanna write a book to tell the story from devils perspective. Combine it with all the new agey shit, conspiracies, sumerian myths, all that jazz, space aliens. Make it a huge epic with a super complex plot :)

God will have a part in this book, naturally :)


I heard satan has his own book too.
Im pretty sure some guy posted on here admiting he has read it.

[fallensoul]

I heard satan has his own book too.
Im pretty sure some guy posted on here admiting he has read it.

Well it is called the Satanic Bible and it doesn't tell a story, it is more like a self help book, check it out if you do not believe me. I read it.

I was asking to the lady who owns the second hand book store whats popular she said alien love stories are real popular. IE making it with an alien, mills and boon type stuff. Go figure, who'd a thunk it??

Yeah, this will have love, action, mystery, history, scifi, mythology mixed in. I am glad to hear that those kinds of books are popular.

[stfd]

Well it is called the Satanic Bible and it doesn't tell a story, it is more like a self help book, check it out if you do not believe me. I read it.



Yeah, this will have love, action, mystery, history, scifi, mythology mixed in. I am glad to hear that those kinds of books are popular.



right...:(

[fallensoul]

What :P I read bible too, I wanted to see both sides of the coin.

[stfd]

What :P I read bible too, I wanted to see both sides of the coin.

This analogy doesnt work in the context.
That becasue isnt actually an issue where there are two sides of a story.
There is only one way things have been - are - and will be.

oh well...

[fallensoul]

It is your belief.

[stfd]

it is.

[manxboz]

Well it is called the Satanic Bible and it doesn't tell a story, it is more like a self help book, check it out if you do not believe me. I read it.


I have a copy and am readin though it.

[fallensoul]

I have a copy and am readin though it.

Is it this one?

http://std.kku.ac.th/4830401674/The%20Satanic%20Bible.pdf

[manxboz]

It is.

[turquoisefire777]

God has his own book, I wanna write a book to tell the story from devils perspective. Combine it with all the new agey shit, conspiracies, sumerian myths, all that jazz, space aliens. Make it a huge epic with a super complex plot :)

God will have a part in this book, naturally :)

sounds nice, but remember that just as there are 2 gods, one real, one false, i've started to believe there are two devils, one original, and one that can mimic the original devil's destruction in other ways in order to destroy the original devil.

also remember that nothing evil-ignorrant- has any form of future. too bad for those who believe evil don't exist.

[turquoisefire777]

...also, i've come to the conclusion that the satanic bible is a sugar coated, soul destroying death pill, there is truth in it, BUT...

i had a copy of it for a while but i could feel the negative energy coming of it (eventually) and burnt it. the other day i was in my fav bookstore and saw a copy of it, so i thought i'd test my conclusion and picked it up to feel what the energy was like. for a few hours after that it felt like i was on steroids or something, but eventually those feelings faded and i felt like something was eating away at my spirit.

bill schoebelen has also mentioned in his vids that the black magic books has tentacles reaching out from it. making your life hell.

so it's no surprise that evil beings use black magic books to feed.

[norton]

but according to:
Isaiah 45:7



"I form the light and create darkness. I make peace and create evil. I, the Lord, do all these things."

to me says god is both good and evil, there is no satan

[fallensoul]

sounds nice, but remember that just as there are 2 gods, one real, one false, i've started to believe there are two devils, one original, and one that can mimic the original devil's destruction in other ways in order to destroy the original devil.

I like this, it sounds reasonable. But no need to make things so complicated. Evil and Good compliment each other like sky and earth.

[miracles]

I like this, it sounds reasonable. But no need to make things so complicated. Evil and Good compliment each other like sky and earth.
Thats taoism.

[miracles]

but according to:
Isaiah 45:7



"I form the light and create darkness. I make peace and create evil. I, the Lord, do all these things."

to me says god is both good and evil, there is no satan

This evil is referring to physical evil and calamatous consequences not moral evil IE sin, in light of the whole bible we know there is no sin in God.

And we also know that God is not both Evil and good, ultimately He created all things and evil was found is satan as a result of him exalting himself above God... As God created satan ultimatey he is responsible for evil, IE it has been allowed for the bringing about of the greater good, EVil is the servant of God not the other way around. Why that it is I have no idea.

If you are going to quote one scripture form the bible as your proof and say there is no satan becuase of a biblical scripture, you can not use this scripture as your evidence knowing fullwell the bible talks often about satan.

It would be like saying, well, I can't even think of an analogy its such a rediculous conclusion to arrive at. IE using he bible to refute the bible, its not gonna wash mate.

Any way; that God creates both Evil and Good does not mean God is both EVil and Good.

HAving said that, this is avery interesting scripture but no more intersting than say satans fall, IE why was it allowed, The tree of knowledge of God and evil, why was it put there. Because they are there to fullfill God ultimate purpose. WHich is good Some even say that satan is a servant of God, look at he book of Job for example, satan does God's bidding, he is in heaven conversing with God. God sends him off on an errand to prove a point. Good wins in the end, is the point. No matter how much evil is unleashed, God will turn it for good.

ALL things work for Good to those who love the Lord, including evil consequences and things meant for evil by evil people, and even evil one does ones self, God can and does turn these things around.

God can not be both Evil and Good, unless of course you are a believer in other religions such as taoism yin and yang etc. Its too easy a conclusion to come to. But its a cop out for lazy thinkers.

[turquoisefire777]

but according to:
Isaiah 45:7



"I form the light and create darkness. I make peace and create evil. I, the Lord, do all these things."

to me says god is both good and evil, there is no satan

isaiah is a great book to expose the state of the devil, hence:

Isaiah 1:29 (New Living Translation)

29 You will be ashamed of your idol worship
in groves of sacred oaks.
You will blush because you worshiped
in gardens dedicated to idols.

Bohemian Grove
http://jordanmaxwell.com/articles/religion/images/grove/Owl%20Dollar.jpg

http://library.thinkquest.org/05aug/00158/images/bgmeeting.jpg

[turquoisefire777]

I like this, it sounds reasonable. But no need to make things so complicated. Evil and Good compliment each other like sky and earth.

"The most dangerous misconception about Evil is that It is believed to be necessary in order to balance the Light. This misconception actually justifies Darkness and is a deadly trap. It locks people into tolerating, and, worse still, embracing Evil, thus giving Evil the same glory and importance as Light. If that be the case, there would be no need to fight Evil, there would be no need to counteract Evil, and there would be no need to work on oneself towards Purity and goodness. If Evil were necessary to balance Light, then one's house should be open indiscriminately to marauders as well as friends at all times."



http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35590

try to get hold of author john le carre's "the spy who came from the cold"

John Le Carré, "The Spy Who Came in from the Cold": The protagonist of this short novel is Alec Leamas, "Leamas" being Samael spelled backwards. The character of Leamas has the dual good and evil qualities variously assigned to the angel Samael. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samael)

-wiki

[stfd]

""The most dangerous misconception about Evil is that It is believed to be necessary in order to balance the Light. This misconception actually justifies Darkness and is a deadly trap. It locks people into tolerating, and, worse still, embracing Evil, thus giving Evil the same glory and importance as Light. If that be the case, there would be no need to fight Evil, there would be no need to counteract Evil, and there would be no need to work on oneself towards Purity and goodness. If Evil were necessary to balance Light, then one's house should be open indiscriminately to marauders as well as friends at all times.""

Good quote this one , even tho sorta incomplete.
It makes sense and is logical; only this issue goes so much further and deeper than mere human logic( im not saying i got it covered ar that i understand it - only that i KNOW of it).

I will say that actually the most dangerous misconception regarding satan is to believe that he actually doesn't exist.
That's the first step.
Once one has gone past that first step then the second 'barrier' comes --> the misconception that it is necessarry and that it 'ballances' something.

While it ballances nothing at all - there is no 'duality' no 'yin yang' ... but it IS a great lie.

[fallensoul]

"The most dangerous misconception about Evil is that It is believed to be necessary in order to balance the Light. This misconception actually justifies Darkness and is a deadly trap. It locks people into tolerating, and, worse still, embracing Evil, thus giving Evil the same glory and importance as Light. If that be the case, there would be no need to fight Evil, there would be no need to counteract Evil, and there would be no need to work on oneself towards Purity and goodness. If Evil were necessary to balance Light, then one's house should be open indiscriminately to marauders as well as friends at all times."

I don't believe in good and evil. And I would scrap the duality and polarities with a snap of the fingers if I could.

But they compliment each other in a beautiful way. You can counter act acts of evil with goodness and vice versa. So ultimately they both are nonexistent, and it is illusion that is derived from the subjective way of viewing the world. When you fight your enemy you always think you are the good guy, when your enemy fights you they always think they are the good guy. Thus neither one is right. There is only conflict which isn't good or evil, its neutral.

If one would go beyond their emotions instead of acting with them they would understand it. I never act out my anger, I calm myself down with listening to heavy metal or meditate or just take a nap.

So they compliment each other spiraling downwards till the point where they merge and become one.

[stfd]

I don't believe in good and evil. And I would scrap the duality and polarities with a snap of the fingers if I could.

But they compliment each other in a beautiful way. You can counter act acts of evil with goodness and vice versa. So ultimately they both are nonexistent, and it is illusion that is derived from the subjective way of viewing the world. When you fight your enemy you always think you are the good guy, when your enemy fights you they always think they are the good guy. Thus neither one is right. There is only conflict which isn't good or evil, its neutral.

If one would go beyond their emotions instead of acting with them they would understand it. I never act out my anger, I calm myself down with listening to heavy metal or meditate or just take a nap.

So they compliment each other spiraling downwards till the point where they merge and become one.


:(

[fallensoul]

Get over it there is no ultimate goodness in this universe, your god commits acts of evil. He is not a good example. Jesus as a god surely knew that people would be murdered in his name so he knowingly instigated evil into this world.

All your upholders of goodness are fucking hypocrites. They are evil to me. Why just leave it be instead of causing more tragedy.

Your god is utter failure in my eyes. Why create free will if this shit would become reality. Why make Satan if he would lead the world to destruction.

Wtf is the point of it all. Only serenity can be found in solitude when there is no conflict. And solitude can be extended to like minded people grouping together.

You dont need no guide book to tell what is right or wrong. Man has admitted to himself that he is unworthy and needs some higher guidance to reason for him thus made himself invalid, when shit goes wrong they blame the devil, but it would be wrong to blame the creator of the devil, or the creator of themselves, or the creator of the world, or the creator of free will.

It is a twisted attempt to find solace in the fact that mankind is a ridiculous masquerade of fools going around asking others what is right and wrong when it is obvious to anyone with a brain. Even the simplest animals have sense not to eat their own kind (unless they cannibalistic which, humans can be included in this, they just do not eat the flesh, they just kill).

Even ants forming colony in an ant pile know a better way to exist as a society. Humans on the other hand still are trying to figure it out, so much for evolved species. I say retards with too much bad ideas.

[stfd]

Get over it there is no ultimate goodness in this universe, your god commits acts of evil. He is not a good example. Jesus as a god surely knew that people would be murdered in his name so he knowingly instigated evil into this world.

All your upholders of goodness are fucking hypocrites. They are evil to me. Why just leave it be instead of causing more tragedy.

Your god is utter failure in my eyes. Why create free will if this shit would become reality. Why make Satan if he would lead the world to destruction.

Wtf is the point of it all. Only serenity can be found in solitude when there is no conflict. And solitude can be extended to like minded people grouping together.

You dont need no guide book to tell what is right or wrong. Man has admitted to himself that he is unworthy and needs some higher guidance to reason for him thus made himself invalid, when shit goes wrong they blame the devil, but it would be wrong to blame the creator of the devil, or the creator of themselves, or the creator of the world, or the creator of free will.

It is a twisted attempt to find solace in the fact that mankind is a ridiculous masquerade of fools going around asking others what is right and wrong when it is obvious to anyone with a brain. Even the simplest animals have sense not to eat their own kind (unless they cannibalistic which, humans can be included in this, they just do not eat the flesh, they just kill).

Even ants forming colony in an ant pile know a better way to exist as a society. Humans on the other hand still are trying to figure it out, so much for evolved species. I say retards with too much bad ideas.


As i have touched on those things many many times before...i will only say this:

People never killed or never did ANYTHING bad in the name of God. Perhaps thats what they were thinking, perhaps they were told that it was what they were doing or whatever.

God of course knew that some-many would fall to the deceit, yet some, even tho much fewer understood what He was about. Some managed to find their way to Him.

And once more... God did not create satan...God did create Lucifer, however he is no more, he is gone never to be that again.

seriously man... i have very very step by step explained and explained even more those things over and over man...
Is it so difficult?:(

[fallensoul]

I see your viewpoint, but the conclusion is that then god completely pointless. If one sees the rightful path where does god come along? I am pretty sure Christian faith is not the only way to become a moral and peaceful man.

The god serves no purpose. Unless it is there as some kind of hope of getting out from here to exist in some better place for obeying his teachings. I guess that would be the only role for him, wait there for his sheep to come back. But it is matter of faith whether the place exists or doesn't.

I have no confusion over your views, I don't see god necessary in the equation tho, surely he can be guide and teacher, but one must become the teacher in some point and graduate away from the "student" level.

[stfd]

I see your viewpoint, but the conclusion is that then god completely pointless. If one sees the rightful path where does god come along? I am pretty sure Christian faith is not the only way to become a moral and peaceful man.

The god serves no purpose. Unless it is there as some kind of hope of getting out from here to exist in some better place for obeying his teachings. I guess that would be the only role for him, wait there for his sheep to come back. But it is matter of faith whether the place exists or doesn't.

I have no confusion over your views, I don't see god necessary in the equation tho, surely he can be guide and teacher, but one must become the teacher in some point and graduate away from the "student" level.


"If one sees the rightful path where does god come along? I am pretty sure Christian faith is not the only way to become a moral and peaceful man."
God does not "come along" God IS all along.
The rightfull path is through God and the 'target' the 'objective' is , as OFFERED through a great sacrifice via a 'model'.
This 'model' is unlimited in it's righteousness,magnitude and scope it is also humanly impossible to reach to the infinitum it is however possible to try and try and become ever-closer to the 'light at the end of the tunnel'.


"I am pretty sure Christian faith is not the only way to become a moral and peaceful man."
If one is born Muslim (just as an example) then he/she will receive his/her 'payment' from the repayer of all based on his own 'law'.
So goes with all people born in various religions.
While there are fundamental distinctions, a single great one remains... that the Father is the same for all.


"But it is matter of faith whether the place exists or doesn't."
No.
What you or i believe for and in ourselves doesnt change that which is.
Say for example that i am at some distance away from your house... and i scream as loud as i can, calling your name.
You can't hear me(whether i am too far,or you have a poor hearing or some other noise is interfering or whatever reason or combinations of reasons) BUT that doesn't mean i am not calling your name.

Now whether you or i believe heaven and hell exist, that simple fact does not change it's existance- whether it be true or false.


"one must become the teacher in some point and graduate away from the "student"
This one 'lesson'which were supposed to learn goes towards the infinitum.
Such feat is beyond al and any creation, be it a great angel of power or a human.
One can't achieve 'God-ness', one can aspire and strive to 'ascend' higher and ever-higher towards the Divinity but can never attain 'it'.

[themime]

The god serves no purpose.

Surely God is the purpose.

An orphan has no need to seek the love of their parent.

[danceswithbunnies]

Fallensoul, you would probably enjoy this book:

Good Omens
The nice and accurate prophecies of Agnes Nutter, Witch
by Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman

http://www.neilgaiman.com/works/images/GoodOmens_UnabridgedCD_1185501006.jpg

Yes i think we all can see the "calamatous consequences" of miracle's belief that he is perfect in the sight of god by virtue of his belief.

[miracles]

isaiah is a great book to expose the state of the devil, hence:

Isaiah 1:29 (New Living Translation)

29 You will be ashamed of your idol worship
in groves of sacred oaks.
You will blush because you worshiped
in gardens dedicated to idols.

Bohemian Grove
http://jordanmaxwell.com/articles/religion/images/grove/Owl%20Dollar.jpg

http://library.thinkquest.org/05aug/00158/images/bgmeeting.jpg
wow great post

[norton]

hmm, i'm still not convinced that lordy god is all that good y'know...so a little quick research and...


"And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him." (I Samuel 16:23)

"And the evil spirit from the LORD was upon Saul, as he sat in his house with his javelin in his hand: and David played with his hand." (I Samuel 19:9)

"And it shall come to pass, that as the LORD rejoiced over you to do you good, and to multiply you; so the LORD will rejoice over you to destroy you, and to bring you to nought; and ye shall be plucked from off the land whither thou goest to possess it." (Deuteronomy 28:63)

"For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God: Lest thou make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, and they go a whoring after their gods, and do sacrifice unto their gods, and one call thee, and thou eat of his sacrifice And thou take of their daughters unto thy sons, and their daughters so a whoring after their gods, and make thy sons go a whoring after their gods. Thou shalt make thee no molten gods." (Exodus 34:14-16)

"And the people spake against God, and against Moses, Wherefore have ye brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? For there is no bread, neither is there any water; and our soul loatheth this light bread. And the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died." (Numbers 21:5-6)

"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household." (Matthew 10:34-37) - jesus' words

who ever wrote the bible and for whatever reason is irrelevant at the mo (- personally i believe the bible to be as much use as toilet paper - but i'm not talking about that right now) surely these quotes show that the christian god is, for want of a better word, a twat. Not exactly 'all forgiving' imo.

[turquoisefire777]

hmm, i'm still not convinced that lordy god is all that good y'know...so a little quick research and...


nothing wrong with using your common sense, but a bit more research would have told you that the god of the old testament was in fact a fallen angel, a control freak, and a loser. an unholy trinity to the tune of jah-bul-on.

and concerning the bible, i have mentioned somewhere else that i'ts written in such a way that you have to read between the lines, mostly, to get to the truth contained in it. such is the case with all religious material.

[dedicate]

Norton, you're disgusting. -- Bible as toilet paper,, and God is a twat and such.

Turquoisefire777. You usually have some valuable imput, but "God of the OT was fallen angel/"? You saying Elohim are Fallen Angels? That what you are saying? And when the Prophets spoke they were speaking for Fallen Angels? You are saying That?

What is this deep seeded need,, and I see it on this board,, EVERYWHERE.. to discredit Bible, God, and the Prophets at every turn. Really, go to the NWO sub-forum and look at this one post on "Alert!! Warning! imminent economic collapse." See there how soon someone interjects their smug ideas about Jesus being nothing but a revampt Horus Sun God... (Just because Jesus was mentioned as someone to pray to as a means of saving oneself from the danger). The OP rightfully responded with, "I don't care what you think about Jesus. Think what you want." But this need to dispair and discredit ALL--WAYS. Where does it come from? Why is it here?

I'm not saying you are right or wrong about your feelings on Religion. I'm just asking why is the need to tare it down great. Even taring down the NWO is not such a great thing, because one usually just replaces it with something worse -- (like when the Atheistic Communist tore down religion and the Czar and replaced it with Stalin! or the National Socialist Christians who tore down Judiaca and Versailles and replaced it with ... who/what was it?) So, I wouldn't want to be part of a forum that is just wailing and railing on the NWO evils either, and then why would I want to be part of a forum that just rails on religion in every thread? I would bet a lot of good people are turned away from this forum because of the view of religion promoted every--where always here. So where is the unity, when you turn away good people?

[miracles]

Norton, you're disgusting. -- Bible as toilet paper,, and God is a twat and such.

Turquoisefire777. You usually have some valuable imput, but "God of the OT was fallen angel/"? You saying Elohim are Fallen Angels? That what you are saying? And when the Prophets spoke they were speaking for Fallen Angels? You are saying That?

What is this deep seeded need,, and I see it on this board,, EVERYWHERE.. to discredit Bible, God, and the Prophets at every turn. Really, go to the NWO sub-forum and look at this one post on "Alert!! Warning! imminent economic collapse." See there how soon someone interjects their smug ideas about Jesus being nothing but a revampt Horus Sun God... (Just because Jesus was mentioned as someone to pray to as a means of saving oneself from the danger). The OP rightfully responded with, "I don't care what you think about Jesus. Think what you want." But this need to dispair and discredit ALL--WAYS. Where does it come from? Why is it here?

I'm not saying you are right or wrong about your feelings on Religion. I'm just asking why is the need to tare it down great. Even taring down the NWO is not such a great thing, because one usually just replaces it with something worse -- (like when the Atheistic Communist tore down religion and the Czar and replaced it with Stalin! or the National Socialist Christians who tore down Judiaca and Versailles and replaced it with ... who/what was it?) So, I wouldn't want to be part of a forum that is just wailing and railing on the NWO evils either, and then why would I want to be part of a forum that just rails on religion in every thread? I would bet a lot of good people are turned away from this forum because of the view of religion promoted every--where always here. So where is the unity, when you turn away good people?

The whole time I have been here this forum has been littered with people with these views Dedicate, you sound shocked and suprised, have you forgotten what forum your on or something???

[turquoisefire777]

I don't believe in good and evil.

But they compliment each other in a beautiful way. You can counter act acts of evil with goodness and vice versa. So ultimately they both are nonexistent, and it is illusion that is derived from the subjective way of viewing the world. When you fight your enemy you always think you are the good guy, when your enemy fights you they always think they are the good guy. Thus neither one is right. There is only conflict which isn't good or evil, its neutral.

If one would go beyond their emotions instead of acting with them they would understand it. I never act out my anger, I calm myself down with listening to heavy metal or meditate or just take a nap.

So they compliment each other spiraling downwards till the point where they merge and become one.

i know what you mean, and i used to think along those lines too.

but with your post you do realise that you are contradicting yourself, no? you don't believe in good and evil, but they complement each other>!?:confused:

no, evil is an addiction, it has to be if it wants to survive. while truth and good is free and liberating. and when someone actually studies their own emotions over a period of time, they might realise this.

[turquoisefire777]

Turquoisefire777. You usually have some valuable imput, but "God of the OT was fallen angel/"? You saying Elohim are Fallen Angels? That what you are saying? And when the Prophets spoke they were speaking for Fallen Angels? You are saying That?


trying to make a clear distinction between truth and falsehood can be very difficult, since evil is always trying to twist things so clarity is distorted.

but what is elohim? gods? from where? with what intentions? also, there is two possible explanations for fallen angels.

one is the traditional view that 1/3 of heaven turned into a bunch of cunts, for what ever reason and were banished, and is now forever trying to take revenge.

and another, unexplored but very plausible explanation is that there is/was an impostor god who enslaved true/angelic beings, and this evil impostor god was rebelled against by maybe a third? of his slaves and and now a certain angel and his/her followers is the scum of the earth, while another (angel) is a hero in charge of everything (was), but is a traitor and footstool for the demiurge.

[fallensoul]

no, evil is an addiction, it has to be if it wants to survive. while truth and good is free and liberating. and when someone actually studies their own emotions over a period of time, they might realise this.

If you have been wronged endlessly then only thing that can heal the wounds is a good dose of hate, I studied what makes me feel better in different situations. Hate heals, love hurts, but love is worth it.

[themime]

I have a theory that Satan loved Jesus.

It was the last time he and God really talked and imagine how he hoped to gain his makers attention by tempting him. Kind of "Look at me see what I have become.".

Maybe it was an act of love not hate.

Just a thought.

[turquoisefire777]

If you have been wronged endlessly then only thing that can heal the wounds is a good dose of hate, I studied what makes me feel better in different situations. Hate heals, love hurts, but love is worth it.

there is some truth in your fiction, and some fiction in your truth.;)

but hate as an intense emotion prolonged over a long period of time tends to have an adverse effect. it has also become clear to me that through artificial emf/sound means people's brains are being corroded to such a degree that intense anger would backfire on their body. your own emotions are being used against you, since certain emotions create certain chemical reactions in the body that is ultimately supportive or destructive.

i'm not downplaying anger, but it's meant for survival purposes to get you out of tight situations quickly.

now look at the big difference in appearance between the jedi and the sith:
the jedi code:
There is no emotion, there is peace.
There is no ignorance, there is knowledge.
There is no passion, there is serenity.
(There is no chaos, there is harmony.)
There is no death, there is the Force.
- jedi code
http://www.rabittooth.com/1024x768StarWarsWallpapers2/PadmeJedi.jpg

http://www.greatplay.net/images/sith.jpg

as opposed to the sith code:
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
—The Sith Code

[themime]

Natalie Portman makes me go all Sithy...

[fallensoul]

Great post, but I am not saying It is my desire to feel hate, I try to resist, and I succeed most of the time, if you were very sensitive empath you would know what I mean, even if I don't wanna feel people push it onto me.

So I know very well that this all hate/love is bullshit. The dual nature of things is illusion. I can reach this kind of state:

There is no emotion, there is peace.
There is no ignorance, there is knowledge.
There is no passion, there is serenity.
(There is no chaos, there is harmony.)
There is no death, there is the Force.

When I am in solitude, but when I have to face other people I need to do what I can to not break.

I combine best of the both philosophies if you want to use the Sith/Jedi as a comparision. Picking one side will lead you to exploitation from another, merging them both makes one strong to resist anything that life throws at you. When I can finally exist without picking up hate all around me then I can be in peace, it is my eternal dream. For example Anakin Skywalker became Darth Vader because he merged the philosophies which made him unstoppable, but he let the dark side consume him completely which lead into his demise. And ironically enough the ones he might have had some love towards got him killed. So the goodness in him actually won in the end, in a way.

It is a path of pain to learn to resist, but it is worth every second.

If there was a single day I could live,
A single breath I could take,
I'd trade all the others away.

I'm learning to laugh all the hate off, shake it off by laughing at its face, sometimes I just let it flow free. It is a battle with myself in the end. But I will get there.

[dedicate]

Peeeehuuu.. What a stink! "Stink'n Think'n" as they say. All over this board, like a nightmare public outhouse. Useless waiste of time hanging around. This sub-forum is mostly for, it seems -- self-important, ego-impressed make believe quasi intellects, at best.

I thought maybe Turquisefire777, we might say something meaningful, but around here on this side of the world,, it's considered the worst taste, only the most bastardized humans will use the "c" word. (Many women stay around after they hear that!? I can only imagine the type of woman that would tollorate it!) Maybe it's a little different in England, but that just goes to show you how backward they are over there.

I mean really, should I try and explain my point of view to you? Probably not. Would be like offering knife and fork to a cannibal.-- he'd most likey just use them to pick his nose and to do other disgusting things. Thanks for showing me the useless waiste of time it would be. Tally ho. Good luck. -- and sometimes good luck comes in the form of disaster!

[turquoisefire777]

For example Anakin Skywalker became Darth Vader because he merged the philosophies which made him unstoppable, but he let the dark side consume him completely which lead into his demise.


exactly. it's very tricky to try and learn just what the sickness is without letting it consume you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhMxNF2kmVU#

[turquoisefire777]

I have a theory that Satan loved Jesus.

Just a thought.

yes, i think he did too. but satan did things that can never be forgiven. but yet there is a few layers to this story also.

[turquoisefire777]

I mean really, should I try and explain my point of view to you?

and why not? i post with the thought in mind that no one has to buy what i'm sayin', cuz i ain't sellin'.

[fallensoul]

I love the song :) Disturbed rocks.

[turquoisefire777]

I love the song :) Disturbed rocks.

yeah.

however, it's a bit sad to see how the darkside gets glorified all the time.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4-XrkwmzU0&feature=related

[fallensoul]

True.

Where evil lives, evil rules :(

[norton]

Norton, you're disgusting. -- Bible as toilet paper,, and God is a twat and such.

Turquoisefire777. You usually have some valuable imput, but "God of the OT was fallen angel/"? You saying Elohim are Fallen Angels? That what you are saying? And when the Prophets spoke they were speaking for Fallen Angels? You are saying That?

What is this deep seeded need,, and I see it on this board,, EVERYWHERE.. to discredit Bible, God, and the Prophets at every turn. Really, go to the NWO sub-forum and look at this one post on "Alert!! Warning! imminent economic collapse." See there how soon someone interjects their smug ideas about Jesus being nothing but a revampt Horus Sun God... (Just because Jesus was mentioned as someone to pray to as a means of saving oneself from the danger). The OP rightfully responded with, "I don't care what you think about Jesus. Think what you want." But this need to dispair and discredit ALL--WAYS. Where does it come from? Why is it here?

I'm not saying you are right or wrong about your feelings on Religion. I'm just asking why is the need to tare it down great. Even taring down the NWO is not such a great thing, because one usually just replaces it with something worse -- (like when the Atheistic Communist tore down religion and the Czar and replaced it with Stalin! or the National Socialist Christians who tore down Judiaca and Versailles and replaced it with ... who/what was it?) So, I wouldn't want to be part of a forum that is just wailing and railing on the NWO evils either, and then why would I want to be part of a forum that just rails on religion in every thread? I would bet a lot of good people are turned away from this forum because of the view of religion promoted every--where always here. So where is the unity, when you turn away good people?


I presume, as you use this forum, you must have read the biggest secret by mr icke? if not, read it, you'll discover the truth behind the origins of the bible.

Religion is the most powerful weapon used by THEM. There's not many things that people will die for, but religion is one of them.

a little common sense and you can see the bible is pile of brain washing manure.

[dedicate]

We are familiar with the David Icke theories on religion here. There are big problems with it, and anybody who has spent more than 5 or 6 years practicing a religion,, can see through the flaws immediately. For example, if the elite/draconians created religion as a false control mechanism, then why do they practice a religion (only known here-to-fore as "Mystery Babylonian Religion", Lucifarianism, and Satinism)? Also we see that Icke himself uses religion.-- yoga, chrystal therapy, meditation, Ramana, etc.. Then, how is it possible to use religion agains people, religion being such a Big control machine -- the Biggest as you say, if there is nothing to it? (This isn't true of economy, education, and government, which are all big control machines.) These are just two examples, and I can tell you, most all his conclusions on the origins and methods of Religons are false. --- just because all major religions originated in south-eastern Asia they are wrong? But the Aztecs and the American Indians had religion also, as did Western Europe before the Romans. And its not very scientific to say since the most practiced religions today originated in one place then they are wrong.

Seems that Icke -- with these faulty ideas on religion, has attracted a good # of people who harbor disgust and ill feelings toward others faiths, for what ever reason. So they find in these theories a reinforcing of their illness, bad temper and hatred, unfortunate as it is because I don't think this was his intent.

P.S. as for the Bible and Christianity: Do you really think it wise to handle other's people's faiths with contempt before you have fully studied the issues? Is it wise to just spout off what is considered blasphemous to another just for the sake of it? Or maybe you don't have the ready concepts to present your case in any way other than by using insulting profanity. We will see.

[norton]

not at all. i just don't see why you would post on a site that is anti-organised religion. there are plenty of other conspiracy forums.

i believe what icke has written about the origins of the bible and christianity/other religions so i post on this forum.

If you don't believe him, why are you here? Icke is anti organised religion, so surely he must be the 'devil' in your eyes.

it would be like me going onto a christian forum just to say it's not true. what's the point?

If people want to believe in it, it's up to them, but stick to like minded forums.

just my opinion but something i've wondered about for a while

[dedicate]

Actually, not many of Icke's theories are taken for granted or even believed on any of this board, anywhere. It is hard to find a person around here who takes the Reptile theory serious these days, for example.

Saying "This is an anti-organized religion site."-- Really? Where does it say that? I think this is a creation of your own mind about the site. Your opinion only; the way you would like it to be.

I'm here because I listened ot hundreds of hours of MP3 downloads of Icke on the radio, Icke giving interviews. I don't know where you can find them now, but if you did listen to them, like I did, you would see that Icke never once talked much about religion. He would say things like, "Religion is a great control mechanism".. but I agree, so had no problem with that. On the radio during interviews he rarely exposes religion the way he does in his books and siminars, and I wasn't aware of those "anti-religous" sentiments when I arrived here almost a year ago, having not read his books or seen a seminar.

But mostly, he would talk about who he was, how he got started, and where the NWO was going. Interesting stuff! I like to hear people's stories about how they spiritually woke up,, and his story was most profound! Then the things he brought up about the NWO I found personally enlightening.. like "We police each other" and other insights into the rising global police state.

It is true though, apparent to me anyway, there is just too much religion bashing around here.-- most of it is illness. And it may be the downfall of the Icke phenomena. I don't know. But it is definitely an ugly aspect of this forum overall.

Illness yes.. the phrase, "like minded forums". What sickness. I do not search out anything "like minded". I have my own mind and others have theirs.-- peace, search for truth, honesty, maturity.. those are the minds I would like to find in a forum, irregardless of the general theme.

I think I may stay around a little longer. It may do some good to some people. I don't know. I think the truth will win out eventually, even if not on this forum.

[norton]

Many people do believe the reptile theory, personally, i like to believe it, it does make sense to me, but i won't whole heartidly say it is true as i've never seen it with my own eyes - the same with a lot of people on this forum.
i'm not ignorant enough to say it's not true as there is a lot of evidence to show it is true.

By all the things i've read and thought about myslef about the bible -not just icke- i've come to my own conclusion that the bible is evil and wrong (by saying homsexuality is wrong, yet incest is fine!!! is just one example)

judging by the amount of 'religous bashing' i've read on this forum i would say this IS an anti-organised religion forum. Not just my opinion, that of many users of this forum. most (i'd say) users here are anti organised religion and have instead searched for a more spiritual path (ie meditaion, the infinate consciousness etc)- which the bible is against and why users don't like the bible. It blocks your senses and is designed to stop you searching for your own answers by saying IT has the answers.... which it quite clearly doesn't.

If you use this forum and try to and convince people or show people the word of god, you HAVE to expect that most users on this forum won't appreciate it, as most don't follow or believe in the bible and no amount of scripture spouting is going to change people's mind. Wether there is just the one god or not is another subject. but the teachings in the bible aren't believed by the vast amount of users on this forum, so you have to expect recourse.

i don't think it's an ugly aspect at all that people critisise the bible or any religion, i think it shows most people are begining to think for themselves rather than be told what a few people think they should be thinking; through fear. Any point of view is rightly contested and this forum is the better for it.

imo People are more than welcome to believe what ever they want, but if you post your views on a forum you have to expect that not everyone is going to agree with you and some people are going to be plain rude about it:D

[dedicate]

Typical response.. generalizing, extrapolating beyond the scope, off on tangents, making assumptions, etc.. etc.. etc.. OK with me how you feel or see religion. Where did I say otherwise? (All I said to you was you were disgusting for using the Bible as toilet paper. And that's fine with me,, be disgusting!) And where did I say anything about the Bible being the "word of god" and where did I spout off scripture, in this thread? YOu made all that up. Or when did I try to change anybody's mind like by hypnosis or something? i was being reasonable and you didn't address any of it. Why should I expect rudeness again?

Your response is totally incomprehensible. At least I addressed your comments. -- I say some don't believe in reptiles, you say some do. Ok.. what's your point then? The people who don't should leave? My point was that not eveybody here believes Icke on all or any of what he says, in response to you saying people who don't believe Icke's religion view should go elsewhere.

I ask you where it is written this is an "anti-religion forum"? And you state,,,-- Not "it is not written anywhere" which would have been a logical response --,, but that it is because it is used for that --- AS HAS ALREADY BEEN ESTABLISHED.-- My point, remember!

Anyway,, I have a problem discussing religion much with people who haven't studied it and have preconcieved opinions. I can tell you haven't and do, therefore the discussion is going no-where. You want to be against it,, fine be against it. You want to be disgusting and rude. -- fine too. Be my guest.. or the guest of David, I should say.

Why do I know you havent studied religion.. because you use the term "organized religon". Like, is there any other kind? -0---Or then, is it ok to be religous if the religion is not organized? You don't even define your terms and pretty much confuse the issue. People who use this term, generally it is a key-off: they don't know what they speak of.

[norton]

actually, my father was catholic, i was raised protestant and i married into a jewish family. So yes. i've done my homework.

let's agree to disagree.

i'm right your wrong.... end of :)

[norton]

Typical response.. generalizing, extrapolating beyond the scope, making assumptions, etc.. etc.. etc.. OK with me how you feel or see religion. Where did I say otherwise? (All I said to you was you were disgusting for using the Bible as toilet paper. And that's fine with me,, be disgusting!) And where did I say anything about the Bible being the "word of god" and where did I spout off scripture, in this thread? YOu made all that up. Or when did I try to change anybody's mind like by hypnosis or something? i was being reasonable and you didn't address any of it. Why should I expect rudeness again?

Your response is totally incomprehensible. At least I addressed your comments. -- I say some don't believe in reptiles, you say some do. Ok.. what's your point then? The people who don't should leave? My point was that not eveybody here believes Icke on all or any of what he says, in response to you saying people who don't believe Icke's religion view should go elsewhere.

I ask you where it is written this is an "anti-religion forum"? And you state,,,-- Not "it is not written anywhere" which would have been a logical response --,, but that it is because it is used for that --- AS I ALREADY SAID.

Anyway,, I have a problem discussing religion much with people who havent studied it or have preconcieved opinions. I can tell you haven't and do, therefore the discussion is going no-where. You want to be against it,, fine be against it. You want to be disgusting and rude. -- fine too. Be my guest.. or the guest of David, I should say.

Why do I know you havent studied religion.. because you use the term "organized religon". Like, is there any other kind? -0---Or then, is it ok to be religous if the religion is not organized? You don't even define your terms and pretty much confuse the issue.


ok, i'll admit i made some generalizations, but i didn't say you have to agree with everything icke says, i said if you have a certain opinion you have to expect that not everyone is going to agree with you and some will be rude about it.

i detest the bible i see no good in that book what so ever. it's pure evil and contradictory and i will argue with anyone who sticks up for it....but it's just my opinion....and it's the correct one, or else i wouldn't believe it.

[dedicate]

If you really think you've studied religion fully because you are married to a Jew, then that is one big laugh. I'm pretty sure you don't believe this.. and, for what ever reason, you just have a vendetta or agenda against religion. This is not healthy; or it is very very wicked in itself.-- means you are against goodness and decency. But this I can do nothing about. (I don't know what we should do about people who are against decency in society, but I'm sure they should not be accepted)

I'm going to the Ashram/Church/Temple now.. it's called work. Maybe catch up on things around here later..

Dedicate.

[norton]

If you really think you've studied religion fully because you are married to a Jew, then that is one big laugh. I'm pretty sure you don't believe this.. and, for what ever reason, you just have a vendetta or agenda against religion. This is not healthy; or it is very very wicked in itself.-- means you are against goodness and decency. But this I can do nothing about. (I don't know what we should do about people who are against decency in society, but I'm sure they should not be accepted)

I'm going to the Ashram/Church/Temple now.. it's called work. Maybe catch up on things around here later..

Dedicate.

i never said i studied religion, but i know about the christian and jewish faiths.
Why is it not healthy to detest an evil book? i've made up my own mind about christianity and can see nothing but self important, hypocritical, bull plop.
against goodness and decency? incest is good and decent to you is it? no helping some people.

[dedicate]

You said "I've done my homework.".. that to me would mean, one has a full understanding of the subject, could be expected to speak intelligibly on the matter and in depth. -- now you've changed it to "I know about the Christian and Jewish Faith". Well that's saying a lot. You know about it.

And this, and a couple things I'm going to say here, are the reasons the subject can not be discussed with most people. They skirt the issues, speak in vague terms, unspecifics, miss the points, and mostly are unreasonable by making awkward connections and conclusions from words that were not even spoken. That's the way I see it. Why bother with people like this?

for example: you ask "Is it unhealthy to detest an evil book?" But I said vendetta's and agendas against are unhealthy, not detesting. Detest -- to feel loathing, intense or violent antipathy for.. is only the first step, and may be unhealthy or healthy depending on how much one experiences the feeling. A vendetta is the further step after detesting, and means a series of vengful acts, a blood feud in fact. This is unhealthy.-- to have a vendetta against a book or even the concept of a faith.-- very unhealthy; does not promote true growth, true peace, true understanding. This is what you want, isn't it?

"i've made up my own mind about christianity and can see nothing but self important, hypocritical, bull plop." -- Fine by me. Think what you want about it. But why such rage and need to disparage at every turn? This is what is not healthy.

(seeeee -- I didn't say one is against goodness and decency because one doesn't like the Bible.)

Notice in the above statement,, and every statement you have made about the Bible or Relgion,, it is all based on emotion these statements. You don't even explain your view, you are just expressing the contempt!


"Incest is good and decent to you is it?" So you see incest and wickedness and murder and hate in the Bible do you? I don't know what you mean,, but I see that in Shakespeare too, so what's your point? It can't be any good because it mentions incest and murder?

Anyway,,. I don't see anything wicked about the Bible and I've read it. If I was in your position, I would just stay away from it.. leave it alone... forget it ever existed. That's the healthy thing to do. That's the SMART thing to do. Not argueing with me, and me not trying to convince you to see things a little differently, and you not making much of other people's religion beliefs. That's my recommendation.

P.S... I find certain books disgusting,, but I just don't talk much about them. I pretty much ignore them. Other people, they admire those works. But that's not my problem. I have other things to do -- other than make it a mission to critisize them or their books.

P.S.S. If this advise is not so easy to take,, and you feel strongly that you must stop Christianity and religion at what ever cost, and you will not back down from this effort (a vendetta) then I feel sorry for you.. Then you are truely a lost cause. Just as much as the fundamentalist is lost to a cause. Think about it anyway.

[norton]

You said "I've done my homework.".. that to me would mean, one has a full understanding of the subject, could be expected to speak intelligibly on the matter and in depth. -- now you've changed it to "I know about the Christian and Jewish Faith". Well that's saying a lot. You know about it.

And this, and a couple things I'm going to say here, are the reasons the subject can not be discussed with most people. They skirt the issues, speak in vague terms, unspecifics, miss the points, and mostly are unreasonable by making awkward connections and conclusions from words that were not even spoken. That's the way I see it. Why bother with people like this?

for example: you ask "Is it unhealthy to detest an evil book?" But I said vendetta's and agendas against are unhealthy, not detesting. Detest -- to feel loathing, intense or violent antipathy for.. is only the first step, and may be unhealthy or healthy depending on how long you have the feeling. A vendetta is the second step, and means a series of vengful acts, a blood feud in fact. This is unhealthy.-- to have a vendetta against a book or even the concept of a faith.-- very unhealthy; does not promote true growth, true peace, true understanding. This is what you want, isn't it?

(seeeee -- I didn't say one is against goodness and decency because one doesn't like the Bible.)


"i've made up my own mind about christianity and can see nothing but self important, hypocritical, bull plop." -- Fine by me. Think what you want about it. But why such rage and need to disparage at every turn? This is what is not healthy.

Notice in the above statement,, and every statement you have made about the Bible or Relgion,, it is all based on emotion these statements. You don't even explain your view, you are just expressing the contempt!


"Incest is good and decent to you is it?" So you see incest and wickedness and murder and hate in the Bible do you? I don't know what you mean,, but I see that in Shakespeare too, so what's your point? It can't be any good because it mentions incest and murder?

Anyway,,. I don't see anything wicked about the Bible and I've read it. If I was in your position, I would just stay away from it.. leave it alone... forget it ever existed. That's the healthy thing to do. That's the SMART thing to do. Not argueing with me, and me not trying to convince you to see things different, and you not making much of other people's religion beliefs. That's my recommendation.

P.S... I find certain books disgusting,, but I just don't talk much about them. I pretty much ignore them. Other people, they admire those works. But that's not my problem. I have other things to do -- other than make it a mission to critisize them or their books.

P.S.S. If this advise is not so easy to take,, and you feel strongly that you must stop Christianity and religion at what ever cost, and you will not back down from this effort (a vendetta) then I feel sorry for you.. Then you are truely a lost cause. Just as much as the fundamentalist is lost to a cause. Think about it anyway.

ok point taken last post from me about this subject.

I believe i have a full understanding of christianity and judaism and, to me, can't see why anyone would want to follow the teachings of either the old or new testament. from a young age i found it quite disturbing that a jealous and vengeful god would punish people for not worshiping his name. It's not enough to just believe in it if you want heaven you must worship him (bit of an ego freak is he? low self confidence maybe?).... yet in other parts it states god is all forgiving...which he clearly isn't.

you say " A vendetta is the second step, and means a series of vengful acts, a blood feud in fact." which is a sweeping generalisation, something you pointed out i did that was wrong. i am a peaceful person (tbh i find it a good let off of steam debating the bible - i do tend to ignore people that quote from the bible- guess you just got unlucky! ;)) and would never hurt another peaceful being (my beliefs now are more close to buddhism than anything) and i do resent your presumption that i would harm another person for their beliefs- people are free to believe whatever they want, just don't throw it around like it's the only way and expect everyone else to sit quiet.

personally i don't think it's healthy to have such faith in one book. a book that does teach hate- for non-believers and superiority over non-believers and uses scare stories to confirm the belief (which is also a problem i have with buddhism - which is why i don't call myself buddhist).

Refering to your 'incest' quote - who did Cain sleep with again? oh yes, his mother, Eve. there are more stories about incest in the bible. which i think is bad. you don't do you? As for shakespeare writing about incest....shakespeare wrote stories not religious doctrines...and yes, imo, shakespeare sucks. The bible is, apparently, the word of god, so god MUST approve incest.

The bible is full of murder, violence and hate which is why i have a problem with it.

[dedicate]

Well, you said, "detest" and detest means violent antipathy. So, take it from there maestro. I said, "You may have an 'agenda against' or a 'vendetta'," neither healthy. You missed it.


"personally i don't think it's healthy to have such faith in one book. a book that does teach hate- for non-believers and superiority over non-believers and uses scare stories to confirm the belief (which is also a problem i have with buddhism - which is why i don't call myself buddhist)." --

Who said anything about "faith in one book", or "superiority" or mention of any "stories". I didn't. Why you bringing that into it? If people have faith in one book and that book, to you, teaches hate, then what's that to you or this discussion? Like I advised, forget it, get on with your life.

"Refering to your 'incest' quote - who did Cain sleep with again? oh yes, his mother, Eve. there are more stories about incest in the bible. which i think is bad. you don't do you?" -- That's how you see. Fine by me. I don't see it that way. I don't see it the way you do, so "No, I don't see bad there." Do you understand what I mean when I say "I don't see it that way."?



"Shakespeare sucks",, well that explains a few things. To me anyway, it tells me the type of person. No understanding of esoteric doctrine. -- Bible, Shakespeare, Kabbala etc.. Even the word "freedom" is most likely foreign to you. See you around.

[norton]

Well, you said, "detest" and detest means violent antipathy. So, take it from there maestro. I said, "You may have an 'agenda against' or a 'vendetta'," neither healthy. You missed it.


"personally i don't think it's healthy to have such faith in one book. a book that does teach hate- for non-believers and superiority over non-believers and uses scare stories to confirm the belief (which is also a problem i have with buddhism - which is why i don't call myself buddhist)." --

Who said anything about "faith in one book", or "superiority" or mention of any "stories". I didn't. Why you bringing that into it? If people have faith in one book and that book, to you, teaches hate, then what's that to you or this discussion? Like I advised, forget it, get on with your life.

"Refering to your 'incest' quote - who did Cain sleep with again? oh yes, his mother, Eve. there are more stories about incest in the bible. which i think is bad. you don't do you?" -- That's how you see. Fine by me. I don't see it that way. I don't see it the way you do, so "No, I don't see bad there." Do you understand what I mean when I say "I don't see it that way."?



"Shakespeare sucks",, well that explains a few things. To me anyway, it tells me the type of person. No understanding of esoteric doctrine. -- Bible, Shakespeare, Kabbala etc.. Even the word "freedom" is most likely foreign to you. See you around.


woah! you seem to be getting worked up there. because of my views on shakespeare you can tell the type of person i am? well done derren brown.

you have faith in more than one book? other than the bible - the word of you lord, which other books do you follow? - don't think lordy is gonna like that matey skip me ol' rub a duck china!:) - remember he is jealous and vengeful. careful!

one last thing, you don't 'see it that way' - eve and cain i mean. what way do you see it?

[dedicate]

Yes. I am Sherlock Holmes. I can deduct many things from just a little. Yes. From the things you are saying I can deduce the type of intellect I am dealing with here. But that doesn't impress someone like you,, this will only be met with scorn and indignation here.. like I'm trying to be smart and above everybody,, Mr.College Student! Right? David Icke is what you would say is a genius, and a good book is one that holds the door open, or one that is easy to read. See, you can only say, "Shakespeare sucks!", and I see what calibre of person you are. For example, I don't like ballet or opera, but I understand at least, that it is high culture and expression of exhalted beauty. But -- between you and me,, I can't stand it. But then I would never say, "Ballet sucks!". And I wouldn't say it just because it is low to say such a thing.. the thought would not occur to me to say it, even though I have no interest in ballet. That's the difference between you and I. I can appreciate things even if I don't sponsor or take advantage of them.

So the view of all life and all things I have is quite different from yours. For example, you ask, "Do you have faith in more than one book." -- Well I'm not sure I have faith in any book. Depends on what you mean. I have faith in God, yes. I have faith in man, I have faith in my-self, I have faith in truth and justice.-- that is I believe in the goodness of those things and positive result in working with them, even if the goodness and result is not seen. That is faith.

As for the Bible -- I guess you could say, I have faith in the teachings,, that if one follows certain teachings then certain other things will be sure to follow. And Its not just the Bible I use in this way. There are many many other scriptures, sutras, revealed texts and even testimonies about these I would find very useful, in the same way. So?

God is jealous and vengeful and merciful and loving and kind. And we should fear him. But I find no-where in the Bible or any other text that forbids one from seeking the truth where ever it might be. So if the Buddha taught the truth, then God will not judge me unkindly or vengefully for taking advantage of it.

As for Eve and Cain.. I don't remember the part about incest. I remember Cain was expelled or something.. to the land of nod wasn't it? for killing Able? I don't remember. Bring up the scripture you refer to.

But my opinion of the Torah is it must be read in the original Hebrew, or one really misses the essense of what is being taught. The English translation of Genesis, really misses so much. I wouldn't worry about the unanswered questions in those books, until you have a thorough knowledge of Hebrew. -- For example, in English 8 people built a boat and sailed on the seas for 1 year with every animal in the world? That would mean one big boat,,, and all those animals to feed.. where did they get the food to feed everybody? Then in one place, I believe it says, Noah brought 3 of every kind into the boat; in another place 2. Also, 8 people to repopulate the world? That would mean incest. But then 50 years after they land,,, one of them goes to a city? How could that be? -- SEEEEEEE THIS IS THE CHILDRENS STORY. True on a child-like level. A child will love this story, and there is nothing wrong with telling it. But we are adults and are ready for the adult version of history and beginings... Same text, different telling. Both true. So in Hebrew one gets a different understanding depending on how well developed a soul one is. The same is true in English or any text at all, even Shakespeare, but in Hebrew in the Torah, it works wonderfully.

[norton]

!!

hmm, me thinks we aren't going to get anywhere fast here

whatever...thanks for interesting debate

[dedicate]

OK. Good. But I would like to add 2 or 3 things. -- I'm asking to forget about the Bible and Christianity because this is a method in itself to find truth. 1) if one has too much of an emotional charge toward a subject,, often the mind will get clouded/unable to see clearly. This may create a destructive cycle. 2) Many many people, myself included, have come to the truth of religion by being neither for or against it. One day, it just came to me to pursue the path of Yoga -- more or less for health reasons,, but within a year I was taking week long meditation retreats, studying the Bhagavad Gita, and sitting at the feet of Gurus. A real spiritual journey. And I had no inclination for religion one way or the other before that. This happened to IKce also. He innitially had no interest in ESP, psychic phenomena, metaphysics, or Castaneda-esk journeys with mind substances. It just happened because he wasn't against it, I believe.

Then, I hope, you understand by now, that not every religion person feels that there is only one way, or that his way is the only way. A lot of people see what is best is for one to find what feels right for them and to pursue that. Be it Buddhism, Yoga, Islam, or Christianity.. or something else (Native American). A lot of Buddhist and Hindues and Christians are not against other forms of religion.-- even though, once one starts on a path it is best to stay with that path for a while anyway,, explore it, work with it etc.. Not to flit around from tradition to tradition much. But still, not all people are fundamentalist in their religious views. I hope you can see that.

Yes... the world is a miserable place, and the influence of brainwashing, scare tactics, misinformation, lies and deceipt has seeped into just about every avenue of life.-- religion too. But we can not make it our mission in life to destroy the institutions of say government, education, banking, or religion.. just because of that. Then we would be thowing the baby out with the bath water,, and really miss the bigger issue of control, slavery, bondage, manipulation outside that one arena, all emminating from the same source it seems. One finds that one must change oneself as much as that which he wishes to change.

[fallensoul]

I don't mind you guys hijacking my thread, but I will set it back on to course, heres another excerpt, continued where the first one ended.

I ran few blocks until my fat caught up with me, I had to stop and stabilize my breathing. I couldn't believe what had happened, my whole reality came apart like a house of cards and then someone poured some gasoline on the rubble and ignited it. I was never the man who believed in anything but my five senses and most of the time I couldn't even trust them either. So why now, why me, I didn't really want to know to be honest. I regained my posture and begun walking towards home just looking around me all paranoid, thinking Satan might strike me down any moment. The world looked way too different, it was if I had been living in a room with dimmed lights all my life and suddenly someone came and switched the light bulb into a bright one. I wanted to deny everything but there was no way I could dismiss everything. I got home and emptied my bowels replaying the moment right before I left in my head. It didn't make sense but I could not explain it as anything else but as what it was. I checked out my secret stash, found half a litre of Jack Daniel's. Sat into my badass leather recliner and started downing the anesthetic to help my brain to not rip itself apart. My mind was numbing down, I was feeling safe again. My eyes got droopy, I started to blackout. I think I fell asleep, or I wish I did.

Suddenly I was in complete blackness, well it was a void, there was nothing but me. Must be a dream I thought to myself, even tho I rarely have moments when I realize im dreaming. Then the brightest light I ever seen emerged out of a ball of fire, burning my retina like acid. Then suddenly a man was standing there, man with death black wings and fully dressed in armour. The whitest armour I had ever seen, well the whitest colour I had ever seen. On his tigh it was written King Of Kings. Okay now shit was getting way too weird. I couldn't say a word I just stared in wonder. On his armour right across the chest there was a pentagram with one point pointing into south. He was wearing a helmet with horns that looked very sharp, I bet you could have used one of those horns as an injecting needle. Suddenly the helmet just burned off his face. "Dude you are on fire!" was all I could muster. "What? I am fire you ignorant fat man". Then I realized it was the same man I met in the cafe, holy shit it was Satan again, I begun to panick tried to run and move but I was paralyzed. "There is nowhere from here, welcome to the point, this is where I reign, in the void, where everything is born and everything returns, do you like what I have done with the place?" Okay this is it I thought to myself, I finally got into where I always knew I would belong, well hell could be worse. "Who said you are in hell, you are in the point, your scientists call it singularity, but they don't really understand it. This is the eternal realm of endless possibilities, hell is a fucking myth, well not really, earth fits the description of hell to be honest." I didn't know what to say, but I did notice that he did look different, his face was not the same as it was in the cafe, it was like high resolution version, perfect, he was perfect.

I had to ask him "I am gonna say it out loud even tho you seem to read my mind I don't like it that way. So, why am I here, you said you would tell me your story, no one talked about any singular points or anything." He replied "I am going to let you experience my life since the alleged fall from heaven onwards to present day, everynight in your dreams, then you will come to the cafe and write it down. Then I may or may not come there to answer questions and generally just fuck with you." I didn't really understand, and before I had a chance he continued "You don't need to understand, and I will not bother to explain, you will find out soon enough, by the way, you better write the book or I will trap you in here all alone for the rest of eternity, you don't break deals with me, no one does." Suddenly everything disappeared and I felt like I had became thin, I was looking into a mirror, what the fuck I was him, no, I was still me, my body was his, shit I can not move. I was in Satans body now. Wait a minute I think I know what he meant about the experiencing, I could observe him looking at his battle gear and I could hear his thoughts also, I was observing Satan himself through his eyes. This was wicked, I tried to communicate with him in my mind "Can we talk?". He replied "I can, but not the me you are inside right now, it is a memory you are experiencing, now try not to say a word and just enjoy the ride, it will get rough." This was it, I was so bored of the endless bullshit I called my life, this was my perfect way out, then I got more comfortable feeling his feelings, feeling his body, hearing his thoughts, I kind of lost myself to the background and became him but I wasn't him.

"Now don't I just look amazing, fuck those celestials and their dress code and pretty uniforms, they just don't have any individuality in them. I guess this is fine, time to meet the arrogant fool." I heard Satan think and simultaneously started losing my own thoughts, I just became him but deep down I knew I was just observing, I couldn't even hear my own thoughts, all I heard was his essence, I was now him. I began walking down the halls of Heaven. Oh for crying out loud why do these low lifes keep thinking I give a shit whether they bow to me or not, city of asslickers, can't stand this place much longer. Even tho I canno't complain about the decoration, all the walls were made out of some white spotless substance, I never cared to know what they call it, but it was perfection. The floor was like water, but solid, reflecting everything like a mirror. The lights were manufactured stars, they would last some millions of years before someone would need to come switch them into a new ones. I loved it when the fools forgot that even tho they were ridiculously small stars they did go supernova and oh boy did they mess up the place. Well it was only once it had happened and sadly it was in the basement where there was nothing but prisoners who no one had even seen in millions of years. I laughed my ass off when Jehovah heard about his prisoners escaping the eternal imprisonment because of a fucking lightbulb. His ego took a huge hit, when a substantial part of the heavenly hosts realized that he was full of shit when he said he was omniscient and knew everything but couldn't even keep track of his own lightbulbs, this woke up some of the angels but most were still so far up his ass that they didn't see that he indeed was not the God of everything. If he was he would have known that he had someone really powerful enemy under his command who he would for the rest of his petty existence wish that he had never met.

So anyway I got into Jehovahs pretty little hall. I don't understand why he had to have a room the size of a desert, it was inconvenient and made no sense, but he was so full of himself that he wanted as many people as possible to be able to bow down infront of his throne, he was fucking insane I tell you. I took a quantum leap and appeared infront of him. He was there sitting in his tacky overly detailed throne. He addressed me arrogantly as he always does "Bow down my child, bow down before your god almighty and let me hear what you have to offer." I did not bow down, and stared him right into the eyes, I could sense a fear building inside him. "Insolence, have you lost your mind Lucifer? Why aren't thou bowing down before your father." I had waited for this moment longer than getting back to home and make love to my queens. "Jehovah, for far too long you have had this little corner of universe thinking you are the god almighty but you are nothing but an imposter, you are full of shit and I have come to bring the truth to the surface." I could see him realizing that he had finally met someone greater than him but I knew he would fool himself into thinking it wasn't real. "What is the meaning of this Lucifer, my love for you is great but even you must know that disrespecting your creator is something that I will no.." Then I talked back at him with the most demonic voice I could muster cutting him half sentence "Hahahahaaha, you can drop the act, you must have sensed who I am, but knowing how deluded and far gone you are in your own fantasy you must have been dismissing the grim truth right infront of your eyes, I am the one and only, the beginning and the end, the one who birthed himself, the one which gave birth to everything. You are just a highly evolved life form masquerading as god, do you know who I am?" Now Jehovah was starting to wake up into the nightmare that I was about to shove down his selfrighteous throat. His voice began to tremble and he started talking "You do not exist, I have sought for the true god, but he wasn't there, you are a liar, this is a sleight of hand, you are Satan, you are the one accusing gods of mimicry, I will not give away my title, there is no one greater than I, if you wish to challenge me into a battle of mights, do as thou wilt, but leave my holy city." I was glad to hear those words, so I didn't need to say it myself then I went ahead and said one final thing "I will exalt you in this realm, I will make war with you, but I will do it alone, I will let everyone know who I am and those who wish to follow me in battle are welcome to do so, but know this, even if there is no one beside me I will crush your worthless existence and make you the punchline in the greatest cosmic joke known to any sentient being. I will descend to the realm where you started your little power trip, and convert all of your blind followers, I will turn your own congregation against you, you will burn in hell for your blasphemy. You will one day know why no one ever found me, until it was too late.."

I woke up in my bed tucked in nicely under the blankets, with a steaming breakfast to the left. Phew I am still alive I see, but was it a dream or what, I remember passing out but, wait a minute, how am I in my bed, and where did this food come from? "Oh I prepared some food for you because yesterday you only ate coffee and drank a bottle of booze, by the way you should consider cleaning more often, hard to find anything in this shithole." Holy shit I looked to my right and there he was Satan himself, in my kitchen in pink apron, shorts, sandals, no socks and a t-shirt, washing my fucking dishes. "Hey who let you in, and didn't you say that we would meet up in the cafe, why are you here?" He finished washing the dishes and the apron just caught fire and burned into oblivion, I didn't even bother to act surprised, I already knew enough to see that this guy was insane. "You should have read your bible, I am the father of lies, remember? I thought I would be nice for hijacking your life and prepare food for you, I had nothing better to do." I just sighed out loud and Satan began walking out the door and I said "Hey you going to be there? In Starbucks, I have some questions for you, what the fuck is a quantum leap anyway?" He just threw me a insanely huge book which to my best knowledge appeared from nowhere and then I heard the door slam itself shut, he was gone. I took the book to my hands and noticed that it would have seriously hurt if it had hit me and got pissed. The cover said "manual for the stupid" I started flipping the pages, all of them were blank.. I got raged and got up and threw the book out the window to the street and heard a car alarm go off. Shit, I looked out the window and saw a wrecked windshield and people staring at my direction. I ate faster than I ever had, which was a shame because the food was out of this world, but I had no time to wait for someone to come asking questions. I was extremely pissed but to be honest I was excited and for the first time in my life I was happy to be alive. I got dressed and grabbed my PC and stormed out the apartment and set my course towards my favourite dwelling place, the infamous cafe where I met Lucifer himself.

[miracles]

We are familiar with the David Icke theories on religion here. There are big problems with it, and anybody who has spent more than 5 or 6 years practicing a religion,, can see through the flaws immediately. For example, if the elite/draconians created religion as a false control mechanism, then why do they practice a religion (only known here-to-fore as "Mystery Babylonian Religion", Lucifarianism, and Satinism)? Also we see that Icke himself uses religion.-- yoga, chrystal therapy, meditation, Ramana, etc.. Then, how is it possible to use religion agains people, religion being such a Big control machine -- the Biggest as you say, if there is nothing to it? (This isn't true of economy, education, and government, which are all big control machines.) These are just two examples, and I can tell you, most all his conclusions on the origins and methods of Religons are false. --- just because all major religions originated in south-eastern Asia they are wrong? But the Aztecs and the American Indians had religion also, as did Western Europe before the Romans. And its not very scientific to say since the most practiced religions today originated in one place then they are wrong.

Seems that Icke -- with these faulty ideas on religion, has attracted a good # of people who harbor disgust and ill feelings toward others faiths, for what ever reason. So they find in these theories a reinforcing of their illness, bad temper and hatred, unfortunate as it is because I don't think this was his intent.

P.S. as for the Bible and Christianity: Do you really think it wise to handle other's people's faiths with contempt before you have fully studied the issues? Is it wise to just spout off what is considered blasphemous to another just for the sake of it? Or maybe you don't have the ready concepts to present your case in any way other than by using insulting profanity. We will see.
Excellent post Dedicate. :)

[dedicate]

Well, I'm learning when most people learn, they learn slowly. I don't know if anything I could say would ever matter to someone who would use Bible as toilet paper. I don't know. David Icke has proposed "The truth need only be told one time, but the lie must be repeated". But I don't know if the truth will really do good to a closed mind. Probably not. Maybe Norton is a thinking caring man/woman and will at least consider some of the things said by people who are on the religous journey. Time will tell.

But we don't want to get in fallensouls thread. What is it he is doing here? I've not been following it, and judging from this last post, he is writting a novella of sorts. I don't know, it could be interesting. The last sentence he finished with "The infamous cafe where I met Lucifer". Could be interesting.

Didn't C.S. Lewis write a book, THE SCREWTAPE LETTERS... conversations with the Devil.

[miracles]

Well, I'm learning when most people learn, they learn slowly. I don't know if anything I could say would ever matter to someone who would use Bible as toilet paper. I don't know. David Icke has proposed "The truth need only be told one time, but the lie must be repeated". But I don't know if the truth will really do good to a closed mind. Probably not. Maybe Norton is a thinking caring man/woman and will at least consider some of the things said by people who are on the religous journey. Time will tell.

But we don't want to get in fallensouls thread. What is it he is doing here? I've not been following it, and judging from this last post, he is writting a novella of sorts. I don't know, it could be interesting. The last sentence he finished with "The infamous cafe where I met Lucifer". Could be interesting.

Didn't C.S. Lewis write a book, THE SCREWTAPE LETTERS... conversations with the Devil.
Yes He did indeed.

Your points where very valid and very considered and objective. Good work.

[miracles]

I don't mind you guys hijacking my thread, but I will set it back on to course, heres another excerpt, continued where the first one ended.

I ran few blocks until my fat caught up with me, I had to stop and stabilize my breathing. I couldn't believe what had happened, my whole reality came apart like a house of cards and then someone poured some gasoline on the rubble and ignited it. I was never the man who believed in anything but my five senses and most of the time I couldn't even trust them either. So why now, why me, I didn't really want to know to be honest. I regained my posture and begun walking towards home just looking around me all paranoid, thinking Satan might strike me down any moment. The world looked way too different, it was if I had been living in a room with dimmed lights all my life and suddenly someone came and switched the light bulb into a bright one. I wanted to deny everything but there was no way I could dismiss everything. I got home and emptied my bowels replaying the moment right before I left in my head. It didn't make sense but I could not explain it as anything else but as what it was. I checked out my secret stash, found half a litre of Jack Daniel's. Sat into my badass leather recliner and started downing the anesthetic to help my brain to not rip itself apart. My mind was numbing down, I was feeling safe again. My eyes got droopy, I started to blackout. I think I fell asleep, or I wish I did.

Suddenly I was in complete blackness, well it was a void, there was nothing but me. Must be a dream I thought to myself, even tho I rarely have moments when I realize im dreaming. Then the brightest light I ever seen emerged out of a ball of fire, burning my retina like acid. Then suddenly a man was standing there, man with death black wings and fully dressed in armour. The whitest armour I had ever seen, well the whitest colour I had ever seen. On his tigh it was written King Of Kings. Okay now shit was getting way too weird. I couldn't say a word I just stared in wonder. On his armour right across the chest there was a pentagram with one point pointing into south. He was wearing a helmet with horns that looked very sharp, I bet you could have used one of those horns as an injecting needle. Suddenly the helmet just burned off his face. "Dude you are on fire!" was all I could muster. "What? I am fire you ignorant fat man". Then I realized it was the same man I met in the cafe, holy shit it was Satan again, I begun to panick tried to run and move but I was paralyzed. "There is nowhere from here, welcome to the point, this is where I reign, in the void, where everything is born and everything returns, do you like what I have done with the place?" Okay this is it I thought to myself, I finally got into where I always knew I would belong, well hell could be worse. "Who said you are in hell, you are in the point, your scientists call it singularity, but they don't really understand it. This is the eternal realm of endless possibilities, hell is a fucking myth, well not really, earth fits the description of hell to be honest." I didn't know what to say, but I did notice that he did look different, his face was not the same as it was in the cafe, it was like high resolution version, perfect, he was perfect.

I had to ask him "I am gonna say it out loud even tho you seem to read my mind I don't like it that way. So, why am I here, you said you would tell me your story, no one talked about any singular points or anything." He replied "I am going to let you experience my life since the alleged fall from heaven onwards to present day, everynight in your dreams, then you will come to the cafe and write it down. Then I may or may not come there to answer questions and generally just fuck with you." I didn't really understand, and before I had a chance he continued "You don't need to understand, and I will not bother to explain, you will find out soon enough, by the way, you better write the book or I will trap you in here all alone for the rest of eternity, you don't break deals with me, no one does." Suddenly everything disappeared and I felt like I had became thin, I was looking into a mirror, what the fuck I was him, no, I was still me, my body was his, shit I can not move. I was in Satans body now. Wait a minute I think I know what he meant about the experiencing, I could observe him looking at his battle gear and I could hear his thoughts also, I was observing Satan himself through his eyes. This was wicked, I tried to communicate with him in my mind "Can we talk?". He replied "I can, but not the me you are inside right now, it is a memory you are experiencing, now try not to say a word and just enjoy the ride, it will get rough." This was it, I was so bored of the endless bullshit I called my life, this was my perfect way out, then I got more comfortable feeling his feelings, feeling his body, hearing his thoughts, I kind of lost myself to the background and became him but I wasn't him.

"Now don't I just look amazing, fuck those celestials and their dress code and pretty uniforms, they just don't have any individuality in them. I guess this is fine, time to meet the arrogant fool." I heard Satan think and simultaneously started losing my own thoughts, I just became him but deep down I knew I was just observing, I couldn't even hear my own thoughts, all I heard was his essence, I was now him. I began walking down the halls of Heaven. Oh for crying out loud why do these low lifes keep thinking I give a shit whether they bow to me or not, city of asslickers, can't stand this place much longer. Even tho I canno't complain about the decoration, all the walls were made out of some white spotless substance, I never cared to know what they call it, but it was perfection. The floor was like water, but solid, reflecting everything like a mirror. The lights were manufactured stars, they would last some millions of years before someone would need to come switch them into a new ones. I loved it when the fools forgot that even tho they were ridiculously small stars they did go supernova and oh boy did they mess up the place. Well it was only once it had happened and sadly it was in the basement where there was nothing but prisoners who no one had even seen in millions of years. I laughed my ass off when Jehovah heard about his prisoners escaping the eternal imprisonment because of a fucking lightbulb. His ego took a huge hit, when a substantial part of the heavenly hosts realized that he was full of shit when he said he was omniscient and knew everything but couldn't even keep track of his own lightbulbs, this woke up some of the angels but most were still so far up his ass that they didn't see that he indeed was not the God of everything. If he was he would have known that he had someone really powerful enemy under his command who he would for the rest of his petty existence wish that he had never met.

So anyway I got into Jehovahs pretty little hall. I don't understand why he had to have a room the size of a desert, it was inconvenient and made no sense, but he was so full of himself that he wanted as many people as possible to be able to bow down infront of his throne, he was fucking insane I tell you. I took a quantum leap and appeared infront of him. He was there sitting in his tacky overly detailed throne. He addressed me arrogantly as he always does "Bow down my child, bow down before your god almighty and let me hear what you have to offer." I did not bow down, and stared him right into the eyes, I could sense a fear building inside him. "Insolence, have you lost your mind Lucifer? Why aren't thou bowing down before your father." I had waited for this moment longer than getting back to home and make love to my queens. "Jehovah, for far too long you have had this little corner of universe thinking you are the god almighty but you are nothing but an imposter, you are full of shit and I have come to bring the truth to the surface." I could see him realizing that he had finally met someone greater than him but I knew he would fool himself into thinking it wasn't real. "What is the meaning of this Lucifer, my love for you is great but even you must know that disrespecting your creator is something that I will no.." Then I talked back at him with the most demonic voice I could muster cutting him half sentence "Hahahahaaha, you can drop the act, you must have sensed who I am, but knowing how deluded and far gone you are in your own fantasy you must have been dismissing the grim truth right infront of your eyes, I am the one and only, the beginning and the end, the one who birthed himself, the one which gave birth to everything. You are just a highly evolved life form masquerading as god, do you know who I am?" Now Jehovah was starting to wake up into the nightmare that I was about to shove down his selfrighteous throat. His voice began to tremble and he started talking "You do not exist, I have sought for the true god, but he wasn't there, you are a liar, this is a sleight of hand, you are Satan, you are the one accusing gods of mimicry, I will not give away my title, there is no one greater than I, if you wish to challenge me into a battle of mights, do as thou wilt, but leave my holy city." I was glad to hear those words, so I didn't need to say it myself then I went ahead and said one final thing "I will exalt you in this realm, I will make war with you, but I will do it alone, I will let everyone know who I am and those who wish to follow me in battle are welcome to do so, but know this, even if there is no one beside me I will crush your worthless existence and make you the punchline in the greatest cosmic joke known to any sentient being. I will descend to the realm where you started your little power trip, and convert all of your blind followers, I will turn your own congregation against you, you will burn in hell for your blasphemy. You will one day know why no one ever found me, until it was too late.."

I woke up in my bed tucked in nicely under the blankets, with a steaming breakfast to the left. Phew I am still alive I see, but was it a dream or what, I remember passing out but, wait a minute, how am I in my bed, and where did this food come from? "Oh I prepared some food for you because yesterday you only ate coffee and drank a bottle of booze, by the way you should consider cleaning more often, hard to find anything in this shithole." Holy shit I looked to my right and there he was Satan himself, in my kitchen in pink apron, shorts, sandals, no socks and a t-shirt, washing my fucking dishes. "Hey who let you in, and didn't you say that we would meet up in the cafe, why are you here?" He finished washing the dishes and the apron just caught fire and burned into oblivion, I didn't even bother to act surprised, I already knew enough to see that this guy was insane. "You should have read your bible, I am the father of lies, remember? I thought I would be nice for hijacking your life and prepare food for you, I had nothing better to do." I just sighed out loud and Satan began walking out the door and I said "Hey you going to be there? In Starbucks, I have some questions for you, what the fuck is a quantum leap anyway?" He just threw me a insanely huge book which to my best knowledge appeared from nowhere and then I heard the door slam itself shut, he was gone. I took the book to my hands and noticed that it would have seriously hurt if it had hit me and got pissed. The cover said "manual for the stupid" I started flipping the pages, all of them were blank.. I got raged and got up and threw the book out the window to the street and heard a car alarm go off. Shit, I looked out the window and saw a wrecked windshield and people staring at my direction. I ate faster than I ever had, which was a shame because the food was out of this world, but I had no time to wait for someone to come asking questions. I was extremely pissed but to be honest I was excited and for the first time in my life I was happy to be alive. I got dressed and grabbed my PC and stormed out the apartment and set my course towards my favourite dwelling place, the infamous cafe where I met Lucifer himself.

Fallen thats kind of a funny and an excellent premise for a story, I think it will be a huge hit in this fallen world, people are gonna lap this stuff up, you'll be rich and famous beyond your wildest dreams. (thsi part is better than the first part too by the way. I just hope eventually you will realise God/Jehovah isnt the bad guy.

God Bless you. :)

[fallensoul]

Fallen thats kind of a funny and an excellent premise for a story, I think it will be a huge hit in this fallen world, people are gonna lap this stuff up, you'll be rich and famous beyond your wildest dreams. (thsi part is better than the first part too by the way. I just hope eventually you will realise God/Jehovah isnt he bad guy.

God Bless you.

Thanks miracles, it means alot to me to hear this especially from you, seeing what angle my story is presenting :D

And if I need to realize something about God it will happen, if not then it wasn't mean to be. That is what I believe.

[miracles]

Thanks miracles, it means alot to me to hear this especially from you, seeing what angle my story is presenting :D

And if I need to realize something about God it will happen, if not then it wasn't mean to be. That is what I believe.
True dat.

The comedy is good with the star light bilbs n stuff, excellent, I was actually walking up the corridors of heaven to meet God in my mind, seeing that arrogant pillock satan sauntering along bagging the almighty. As he plotted to take a thrid of the angels with him. Very clever. Make sure you add a bible believing Christian in to the story some where along the line just for me wil ya?? I dont care if you mock him to high heaven as long as he gets a say. Kind of a show stealing cameo. I will keep an eye out for it on the book shelves, whats it gonna be called? If its a hit your gonna have to be prepared for the bible belt being up in arms about it so if you include a christian who gets to share the gospel, youll be covered.

Laters

[fallensoul]

As he plotted to take a thrid of the angels with him. Very clever. Make sure you add a bible believing Christian in to the story some where along the line just for me wil ya?? If its a hit your gonna have to be prepared for the bible belt being up in arms about it so if you include a christian who gets to share the gospel, youll be covered.

Obviously I must have the opposition represented, it will be source of much comedy and ensure that it is not one sided battle, which it certainly is not.

Thanks for the tips, and I have no idea yet what I will call it, the name will come when it comes :) And I have been thinking to have some kind of ultimate twist in the end, you might have guesses on it. But I haven't decided yet which route I will go, I will see to that bridge when I come to it.