You do realise that Alien Abductions are Astral?

[geewhizz]

They are NEVER physical. If you hear otherwise, they are lying or do not realise that there physical body is asleep and they have diverted their consciousness to the RTZ or Lower Astral fields.

[geewhizz]

Physical marks like scoops are purely 'Stigmata' like effects and psychosomatic.

[zenith82]

I've believed that for some time, haven't heard anybody else say it though.

[krakhead]

They are NEVER physical. If you hear otherwise, they are lying or do not realise that there physical body is asleep and they have diverted their consciousness to the RTZ or Lower Astral fields.

You can prove this, yes?

[elton]

Studies have shown that reports of alien abductions frequently contain references of a sexual nature very similar to sexual fantasies often reported by the psychologically unbalanced. Usually it is middle-aged females who report their bodies being entered in a sexual manner.

[presence]

As all alien abductions I've read about and heard about from abductees occur during an altered state of consciousness, I do tend to agree with the 'astral' hypothesis as the most likely explanation.

However, inducing an altered state of consciousness would facilitate the abduction...

And, well studied alternative hypotheses do exist. An academic who’s studied the alien abduction scene for years, concludes that short greys, tall greys and an insectivorous alien are all working on taking over the planet through a very long very secret agenda involving creating a hybrid race of them and us. Their eventual aim is to subjugate the rest of us, considering themselves the superior race.

But then what would we do if we go to some other planet looking for a new home and find the place overrun by an inferior race of violent and destructive beings? We’d probably cull them down to a manageable population and shove them into reservations for future genetic experimentation etc. Ummm.

Maybe Crop Circles are a distraction to make us think the aliens are here for our benefit when in fact they’re here for their own benefit at our ultimate expense. Maybe through repeated homeopathic doses of genetic modification through CCs we’ll soon be ripe for the hybrid breeding program…

[2013]

http://timesonline.typepad.com/comment/2009/09/japans-first-lady-visits-venus.html
Japan's first lady visits Venus
Quote of the day, from Japan's new first lady, Miyuki Hatoyma:

While my body was asleep, I think my soul rode on a triangular-shaped UFO and went to Venus. It was a very beautiful place and it was really green."

Triangular craft . :rolleyes: ? possible i suppose .
Loving the avatar krakhead, always thought that would make a good back piece tattoo .Are you cancerian ? :D

[geewhizz]

The 3D universe is (Very Sadly) an empty *place apart from life on our Planet Earth.

*We are the most advanced in our freeze vibration but microbes and lower forms of sea life and unaware creatures do exist in the seas of billions of planets.

Humans are the most evolved creatures in the 3D Universe, HOWEVER, on the other vibrational dimensions of our own it is TEEMING!
This is where the Abductions take place and there are many, many civilizations and different species.

The 3D freeze vibration is not just on Planet Earth, but it spreads into infinity on this particular wavelength (Our Universe).

UFO's are either Human made OR Multidimensional vehicles which have the power to lower their vibrational fields to match ours for a very short time, there are no other types.

Planets like Mars, Jupiter and Venus etc have massive civilizations on them in the other vibrational levels.

This is all you need to know.

[skyver]

This is a very good post from the OP & could also be one of the key points in ending abductions. It's wierd as I was thinking about something similar the other day, I was thinking that one way to counter abductions would be to master OBE's too the point where you could team up with other humans who do this & pool together what you learn & I'm sure the knowledge gleamed would be enough to control the situation. You see whilst people deny certain dimensions & paranormal events exist, this gives Aliens/occultists/entities so much power.

[jamesc]

Studies have shown that reports of alien abductions frequently contain references of a sexual nature very similar to sexual fantasies often reported by the psychologically unbalanced. Usually it is middle-aged females who report their bodies being entered in a sexual manner.

The cases that Bud Hopkins investigated were shown to have women report pregencies being terminated and in latter abductions they have been shown their off spring.Also women's eggs have been taken with male sperm and also in latter abductions they have been shown the hybrids.There s a very wide range of reported abductions involving pregencies that simply are not there after abductions.Also some women have reported to suddenly becoming pregnant after a abductions when they have sworn to be absconding any form of sexual activities and some have said they are not in any kind of sexual relationship or non sexual relationship.:confused::cool:I do recommend a study and read of Bud Hopkins books.:cool:

[jamesc]

Before any one thinks that this is just astral abductions i do recommend reading the following and also reading all his books, quite compelling.

Budd Hopkins
Budd Hopkins is a world-renowned artist, author, and pioneer UFO abduction researcher. Having investigated well over 700 cases, he now heads the Intruders Foundation, a nonprofit, scientific research and support organization. Taken together, his three books, Missing Time, 1981, Intruders, 1987, and Witnessed, 1996, are widely regarded by researchers and skeptics alike as comprising the most influential series of books yet published on the abduction phenomenon. These works, Hopkins' lectures, and his other presentations have been responsible for bringing a number of other noted researchers-David Jacobs, John Carpenter, Yvonne Smith, and John Mack, among others-into this extraordinary area of specialization.

articles & documents
Alien Abduction? Junk Science Calls It Sleep Paralysis
Budd Hopkins
Junk Science is the proper designation for the many outlandish, irrelevant and unsupported hypotheses debunkers have employed over the years to dismiss UFO abductions (some of which I will discuss in future articles). Non-junk Science - the real thing, based upon the scientific method - begins by amassing and studying all the accurate, relevant data before any serious hypothesizing takes place.

Ethical Implications of the UFO Abduction Phenomenon
Budd Hopkins
I will concentrate instead on what information we can derive from their accounts that might bear on the question of the moral nature of the UFO phenomenon. Are the UFO occupants, as they are described by their abductees, good or bad, friends or foes, or is the situation just not reducible to such terms?

Kidnapped by UFOs? - Budd Hopkins' Abduction Cases
PBS NOVA - Kidnapped by UFOs?
Budd Hopkins' cases -- people who believe they have been abducted by aliens. Excerpts from interview by PBS NOVA.

Kidnapped by UFOs? - Interview with Budd Hopkins
PBS NOVA - Kidnapped by UFOs?
Interview with Budd Hopkins, leading abduction researcher and author.

On Witness Intimidation - The Debunker's Basic Weapon
Budd Hopkins
After decades of dealing with debunkers' attacks upon anyone reporting UFO abductions, I am still amazed at the ill-informed and often cruel nature of these published assaults. I am not referring here to diatribes against investigators like myself, because, as Harry Truman pointed out, to be in the kitchen involves a certain amount of heat. Instead, I mean attacks against the abductees themselves, the innocent men, women and children who have dared to report their suspicions of ongoing UFO

Patterns of UFO Abductions
Budd Hopkins
"Anyone familiar with the subject is aware that UFO abduction reports almost always include accounts of physical examinations performed inside the craft. The abductee usually lies naked and immobile on a flat table while one or more of a wide variety of physical operations are carried out. There is, however, one virtually universal detail in these procedures that has never, to my knowledge, been commented upon in the literature: the abductee never seems to feel any degree of shame or embarrassment about his or her nudity."

Science is Not Always What Science Programs Do: A Response to NOVA's Program on UFO Abductions
Budd Hopkins
Readers familiar with the writings and lectures of the late Dr. Allen Hynek may recognize in the above title an expanded version of one of his most quoted bon mots, "Science is not always what scientists do." After viewing the recent Nova program which systematically and outrageously distorted the UFO abduction phenomenon and my work in the field, it's fair to say that Nova has abandoned its right to be thought of as either objective, balanced, or scientific.

websites & organizations
Intruders Foundation - Budd Hopkins' UFO Abduction Research Organization
Over a decade ago Budd Hopkins founded the Intruders Foundation as a nonprofit organization with four basic goals: To provide sympathetic help, understanding and personal investigation for those reporting UFO abduction experiences. To carry out systematic research into the abduction phenomenon through a careful study of its patterns and resulting physical and psychological evidence. To mount an extensive program of public education about the phenomenon. To develop a cadre of trained professionals in various fields to carry out all of these projects.


books

http://www.ufoevidence.org/books/bookpics/Intruders.gif



Intruders: The Incredible Visitations At Copley Woods
Budd Hopkins
There have been tens of thousands of verified UFO sightings and landings. But it is the actual temporary abductions that are the most controversial and dramatic stories behind this phenomenon. In the summer of 1983, Kathie Davis was floated out of her room in rural Indianapolis, while she slept, then subjected to a physical examination inside a UFO. The story she told the world afterwards, and corroborated by specialists and hundreds of other victims all over the country, is not to be missed or dismissed lightly.



more info...




Missing Time
Budd Hopkins
The arrival of extraterrestrial visitors is one of the most momentous events of our time. In Intruders Budd Hopkins explored the shocking truth about the contact between earthling and alien: that human beings are temporarily abducted and taken aboard UFOs. But Hopkins could not have told the stories of those victims without first having discovered the one experience common to all who report alien encounters — the phenomenon known as "missing time."



http://www.ufoevidence.org/books/bookpics/MissingTime.gif






Sight Unseen: Science, UFO Invisibility, and Transgenic Beings
Budd Hopkins, Carol Rainey
In Sight Unseen, Budd Hopkins and coauthor Carol Rainey show how fascinating discoveries in modern science support the plausibility of the UFO phenomenon. Featuring sixteen never-before-published cases, Sight Unseen probes two newly uncovered patterns in alien abduction: cases of UFO "invisibility" and reports of genetically altered alien beings who interact with humans during their routine lives.


http://www.ufoevidence.org/books/bookpics/SightUnseen.gif


http://www.ufoevidence.org/books/bookpics/Witnessed.gif

Witnessed
Budd Hopkins
The long-awaited investigative report by artist and veteran UFO researcher Budd Hopkins (Missing Time, 1982; Intruders, 1987) details a remarkable abduction that took place in downtown Manhattan early on the morning of November 30, 1989. The case is unique for many reasons: several witnesses from vantage points on or near the Brooklyn Bridge saw the UFO and the abductee (Linda Cortile) floating 12 stories up in a blazing blue-white light; three of these witnesses (a highly placed United Nations diplomat and his security guards) later came to understand that they had been abducted at the same time.

[branjo]

I don't know either way regarding the title of the thread, but I would think the 3rd Dimension isn't bound to just the earth. I mean if something is solid 3D but projecting a frequency of light beyond our spectrum, does that make it astral. Some have said Physicality itself is not bound to the 3rd Dimension alone.

Some people have been "taken" and their bodies are not left behind, some do it in their dreams and their bodies remain, I think Astral or Physical they are both possible. I don't think anyone can claim to know one way or the other.

[jamesc]

There is more here on the possibility that these visiters can induce and evoke ones astral body out of ones physical shell.Could it be that these unknown geings are using technoligies way beyond out current evolutionary understandings at our present evolution vibrations or frequencies??Apart from some of his references of a religious nature i think this is very interesting that so many other people have/had or still are in contact with this unknown but highly intelligent intelligence.




Why I think there's a Soul...and an Afterlife
Thursday August 13th, 2009
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Recently I had an experience that convinced me that there is an afterlife. Actually, it was two experiences, which came after a lifetime of episodes that have suggested, with varying degrees of conviction, that the soul exists and persists after death.
In the year after I had the close encounter experience that led to the writing of Communion, I became extremely interested in the soul. I was seeing things, and experiencing things, that suggested that it might actually exist. Prior to this, though, I'd more or less given up hope in it. I just didn't feel anything except my body. Like anybody, I feared death. In fact, I was terrified of an end to myself.

Among the things that exposure to the visitors changed for me was my attitude toward death and my awareness of the soul. I didn't fully understand it then, but prior to my December 1985 close encounter, I was deeply asleep. I had spent fifteen years intensively involved in the Gurdjieff Foundation, so I knew that what we consider a normal state is not really normal. It's a state of sleep. We react, we do not act. The attention pours out into the world, and the inner being is left to starve.

But I'd been working toward a more awakened state for a long time. I had the belief that I could come awake, indeed, that I was awake.

Then the visitors showed up. I believe that they began coming in September or October of 1985. In any case an awful terror descended over me every time we went to our cabin, and yet I did not stop going.

And yet, I remained unconscious of their presence until finally, on the night of December 26, they roughed me up so badly that the sheer physical pain could not be ignored.

As, over the next few months, I finally faced their presence, I also entered a school. It was hard in ways that nothing I had previously encountered was hard. The intellectual, emotional and physical challenges were fantastic. I was being asked to discard the most fundamental things that I believed about reality and about the experience of being conscious and alive.

As I learned to communicate with them, they began directing me to various books, among them Robert Monroe's Journeys Out of the Body.

One night after I read it, I was trying to use the method Monroe suggested for separating from the body and suddenly it worked perfectly. Put simply, I rolled out of myself. I remained perfectly conscious and aware of myself. After I had come out, I moved into the middle of the bedroom. I wasn't frightened or confused in the least. I noticed that my vision had changed. I did not need to move to see in any particular direction. I could simply do it.

The first thing I saw was my own body lying on the bed, with my wife beside me. Oddly, the image seemed reversed, as if I was looking at us in a mirror.

I then moved toward the front windows of the bedroom. Plastered to one of the windows, I saw the face of a gray hanging like an African mask. In some way, I think it was alive. Certainly, I saw it as an indication that they were involved in what was happening.

I moved out through the window. I also engaged part of the wall, which was a little more dense than the glass. When I was outside, I could see that all the plants were covered with a glow. I tried to touche some pine needles. I thought to break one off and bring it back inside, thus proving to myself that I had done this. It didn't work, though. I could not affect anything.

I then returned to the room and attempted to reenter my body by lying down inside it. However, it was as slick as wax or mercury. There seemed to be no way to stay in it.

I suspect that this is what happens to the dead when they attempt to re-enter their bodies. But I'd been fine. Was my wife to wake up and find me mysteriously dead beside her? The poor woman had been through a hell of a lot lately.

Then I was suddenly plunged back in time to my childhood. I was standing on the front steps on a summer morning. My father, who was mowing the lawn, looked over his shoulder and said, "when are you going to come help me?"

That did it. I'd loathed mowing the lawn. I was back in my body in an instant.

But what had just happened? I had clearly come out of my body in full and complete consciousness. I'd seen my dead father, or had appeared to do so.

It didn't prove anything about the afterlife to me, though. Obviously it was possible to leave the body, but did that mean that anything would remain after death? Maybe my father had been a figment of my imagination. (Although, for the next couple of years, he engaged me a number of times in various ways, and I came to think that he was unware of the fact that he was dead.)

It was not until last year that I became convinced that there was an afterlife. This came as the result of two things done by a psychic of our acquaintance, Glennys MacKay.

The first of these events involved our hairdresser. Glennys had said that she could read people by simply holding something of theirs, so Anne gave her a lock of his hair.

She told Glennys nothing about the hair, not even that it was from a man's head. Glennys said after a moment that the hair was from a man. Correct so far. Then she said, "I hear somebody calling 'Howie, Howie,'" Anne said nothing, but we both knew that our hairdresser was called Jay.

When we went to see him, though, and told him what she'd said, he literally blanched. He said, "My real name is Howard. That was my dead sister. She called me Howie."

Now, this was just plain startling. Glennys had never seen the man. She had no idea if the hair was even from a man. And yet she had correctly identified him by a name that Anne and I didn't know was his.

It was not done by clever questioning. She hadn't asked us any questions. She simply started talking as soon as she had the hair in her hand. It wasn't telepathy, because we had no idea that our hairdresser's real name was Howard.

Previously, by simply touching Anne's wrist, she had identified her dead stepmother by name, also, and had reported that the stepmother had said that "perhaps" she had been "a little hard on her." She'd been monstrous to my wife, and obviously still has some inner exploration to do before she fully accepts the suffering she caused her.

Now, this was all convincing enough, but then there came an event that was absolutely and finally convincing to me, because it was so incredibly personal.

We were driving Glennys and her husband to dinner when, in the course of conversation, she commented that she often saw the dead among the living. So I asked her if there were any dead with us now. She said that there was a dead man present, and he was to do with me.

Then, without waiting for me to say anything, she added, "he plays the piano. No, the violin. He plays the violin. He's wearing a tuxedo." At this point, I had not the slightest idea who this could be. I don't know any orchestral musicians. Then she suddenly said, "He says his name is Milton."

At that moment, my world changed. All of the experiences I'd had that were suggestive of an afterlife suddenly focused, and I knew that it is true. We do.

And this is why: As soon as she said that name, Milton, I remembered somebody I had not thought of in at least 30 years, a boy who had lived across the street from me when I was a child. He was about ten years older and he played both the piano and the violin, but especially the violin.

In fact, his frequent playing of the Beethoven Violin Concerto gave me my lifelong love of classical music.

His name was Milton.

I am no longer able to rationalize away the idea of a soul or an afterlife. As far as I'm concerned, we have both, and we do persist in this world in the afterlife for some little time. I believe that Milton died sometime around 1977. The last time I saw him would have been years prior to that. And the last time I thought of him was perhaps in 1977 or 78, when my mother mentioned that he had died.

In my opinion, I am here in part to bear witness to these things. We are, most of us, soul blind and coming into an era where soul blindness must end.

It has for me, and I have gone on a mission to relieve soul blindness, because from where I sit it looks now like a disease. The visitors once said to a child who was staying at our cabin that they were doctors, and after that the kids would often call them "the little doctors" when they glimpsed them in the woods from time to time.

They awakened me with a classic initiation. I didn't like it one bit, but if I had been initiated, say, in the Osirion or at Ephesus when the ancients still had the knowledge to do such things, the experience would have been every bit as ferocious. Or if I had been a plains Indian from a number of different tribes, to become a shaman I would have needed to experience an ordeal.

In fact, the ordeal is the beginning of most transformation. That's what the crucifixion is really about. It shouldn't ever have been used to induce guilt in the guileless. As hard as it was, it was a triumph.

Birth is not pretty and it is also dangerous.

Mankind, as a whole, is experiencing a journey down the birth canal right now. Earth is pregnant with mankind and has reached term. Dead or alive, we're being born.

My next step will be to create a series of talks about how to make a strong soul. They will be a follow-up to the talk "Sensing the Soul" in the Unknowncountry subscriber area. I've learned enough about this to provide some clear and useful ideas that will help anybody end soul blindness and begin useful work on feeding and strengthening this essential part of themselves.

One might ask, what's wrong with what's available in our existing holy books? The answer could not be more simple: they have all been corrupted by changes and additions that are designed to do the EXACT OPPOSITE of what is needed. This has been done, frankly, by people who are themselves soul blind, but who have been elevated in this fallen world of ours to positions of honor.

To a man, they have been motivated by a greedy desire to control others. Every word in every religion that comes with a dose of guilt is a lie. Just knowing that is the beginning of the road toward re-establishing a healthy internal life of the kind we have when we are little children.

We were not born guilty. In order to come into a true relationship with God, we do not need any organizations to control us.;)

We are part of God's journey, all of us. To find our souls and feel them again is to reconnect with our innocence. False guilt, ritual, none of it matters. What matters is discovering within oneself who one truly is, and feeding that knowledge--that soul--with honest, real love.


http://www.unknowncountry.com/journal/?id=379

[geewhizz]

This is a very good post from the OP & could also be one of the key points in ending abductions. It's wierd as I was thinking about something similar the other day, I was thinking that one way to counter abductions would be to master OBE's too the point where you could team up with other humans who do this & pool together what you learn & I'm sure the knowledge gleamed would be enough to control the situation. You see whilst people deny certain dimensions & paranormal events exist, this gives Aliens/occultists/entities so much power.

Exactly.

If you have read any of my postings elsewhere on this forum, I have stated that I have been Astrally Projecting for many years now. It started with spontaneous OBE's as a child until I harnessed the gift in 2000.

I have been 8inches away from an ET's face late at night, alone in my bed. I was awoken by this creature which believe it or not, did not scare me. These things are not Grey, they are pure White, or like an internally glowing silvery white. Its eyes were fascinating, like a bit oriental and sloping to the centre, but gazing at them they were filled like black oil.

After many years of recall, I now know that I saw this creature through 'Astral sight' and not my physical eyes. Anyone who is into AP will know what im talking about and if you didn't witness this its seeing through closed eyelids into the RTZ.

I would ask anyone to forget EVERYTHING you have ever read on UFO/Alien abductions and learn OBE's/AP. Then you will experience that this phenomena is purely extra dimensional and not of the 3D reality. Think about it, we are Multidimensional creatures afterall.

On other OBE's I have seen UFO's and more of these White ET's with triangle heads.

Learn AP and see for yourselves. Forget Disinfo from Budd Hopkins, CIA, Whitley strieber etc etc.

Experience it for yourself.

[jamesc]

Exactly.

If you have read any of my postings elsewhere on this forum, I have stated that I have been Astrally Projecting for many years now. It started with spontaneous OBE's as a child until I harnessed the gift in 2000.

I have been 8inches away from an ET's face late at night, alone in my bed. I was awoken by this creature which believe it or not, did not scare me. These things are not Grey, they are pure White, or like an internally glowing silvery white. Its eyes were fascinating, like a bit oriental and sloping to the centre, but gazing at them they were filled like black oil.

After many years of recall, I now know that I saw this creature through 'Astral sight' and not my physical eyes. Anyone who is into AP will know what im talking about and if you didn't witness this its seeing through closed eyelids into the RTZ.

I would ask anyone to forget EVERYTHING you have ever read on UFO/Alien abductions and learn OBE's/AP. Then you will experience that this phenomena is purely extra dimensional and not of the 3D reality. Think about it, we are Multidimensional creatures afterall.

On other OBE's I have seen UFO's and more of these White ET's with triangle heads.

Learn AP and see for yourselves. Forget Disinfo from Budd Hopkins, CIA, Whitley strieber etc etc.

Experience it for yourself.

While i am open to the realities of all of us having a astral body can you provide evidence that Bud Hopkins and Striber are disinformation agents??


Why would Bud Hopkins provide a place were abduction victims could meet and share their experiences with each other ?/After all these people were generally abused or made fun off and there were no organisations like his to provide this kind of support.Also can you provide evidence that Striber is a disinformation agent also.I take it Dr John Mack is in this mould too??

On the subject of astral protections do you know that to do this safely you must have a healthy heart for it can be a bit of a strain on it.

[soothseeker]

I've personaly had an experiance that you could call an astral type abduction but still believe there real abductions.

I would think there is both types.

[jamesc]

EXTRA-TERRESTRIALS

Any extra-terrestrial connections are normally Arcturan, Pleiadian or Sirian if and where they exist but most extra-terrestrial guides observe rather than advise. The extra-terrestrial way of avoiding interference with free will is to ask rather inscrutable questions! Extra-terrestrial humour is also quite distinct, especially surrounding their view of 'Terrans', but if we look at ourselves through extra-terrestrial eyes it is easy to see the funny side.:D:cool:

If you feel you may have extra-terrestrial origins then you will almost certainly have some form of extra-terrestrial guide. These guides are unlikely to come through unless you have already 'phoned home' and given them permission. The best way to find out is by using astral projection.

If you are particularly interested in your Star Seed connections you may want to have a specialist astrological chart covering these aspects drawn up by Ellen in advance. Ellen and I do not discuss clients charts or readings so you can guarantee that I will not have prior knowledge of anything in your chart unless you decide to share it with me.

WHAT IS ASTRAL PROJECTION

To find out if you have extra-terrestrial connections with another planet you can find evidence of it in your astral chart. I already knew from some astral-projection work I'd done, that I was from the Pleiades, or more precisely from Alcyone, and when Ellen did my chart, there was my Moon conjunct Alcyone.

A lot is written about astral projection and there are a number of techniques you can use to astral project. What is common to almost all astral projection techniques is the presence of a silver umbilicus of thread connecting the physical body with the travelling aspect.

Astral projection encompasses remote viewing of places on Earth and similar skills but when using it to discover your extra-terrestrial connections the process is actually much simpler despite the physical distance.

Where astral projection in the sense of remote viewing is akin to physically travelling, astral projection to find out your extra-terrestrial connections is more like making a phone call. I didn't know that what I was doing when I found out my extra-terrestrial origins was astral projection until after I'd done it and people's experience of astral projection does differ.

I just lay down on my bed and travelled out through my third eye into the black of space with the conscious intent of finding my extra-terrestrial origins.

[jamesc]

I've personaly had an experiance that you could call an astral type abduction but still believe there real abductions.

I would think there is both types.

Exactly , WHO IS TO SAY THAT PHYSICALLY ADVANCED EXTRATERRESTRIALS WHO ARE PHYSICAL DO NOT HAVE ASTRAL BODIES AND THE MEANS TO EXTRACT ASTRAL BODIES FROM OTHER FORMS OF LIFE, HUMAN??:cool:

[ic_ic]

Awdunno, I propose that it can be either, or even both in a way, depends on the purpose of the abduction. Maybe even on the type of entity doing the abducting.


They are hardly going to snag your "lightbody" to siphon off energy or whatever when they are after honest to goodness, nuts 'n' bolts ovaries for genetic research, are they?...:D

It's also possible they can astrally attack and control our sense of time/reality while physically apprehending/dealing with us.

[skyver]

While i am open to the realities of all of us having a astral body can you provide evidence that Bud Hopkins and Striber are disinformation agents??


Why would Bud Hopkins provide a place were abduction victims could meet and share their experiences with each other ?/After all these people were generally abused or made fun off and there were no organisations like his to provide this kind of support.Also can you provide evidence that Striber is a disinformation agent also.I take it Dr John Mack is in this mould too??

On the subject of astral protections do you know that to do this safely you must have a healthy heart for it can be a bit of a strain on it.

I think it was in Bill Cooper's book Behold a pale horse years ago where he said that he saw documents of people who were dis-info agents, Whitley Striebier & Benjamin Freidman were on the list. Someone will correct me I'm sure, if it was in another book.

[jamesc]

I think it was in Bill Cooper's book Behold a pale horse years ago where he said that he saw documents of people who were dis-info agents, Whitley Striebier & Benjamin Freidman were on the list. Someone will correct me I'm sure, if it was in another book.



"In later years, Cooper recanted his UFO-oriented beliefs, asserting that they were in fact part of the Illuminati plot to subjugate the United States."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milton_William_Cooper
Striber has for me said or done nothing that would make me doubt him , in fact he comes across as a very sincere man.

[biblegirl]

The cases that Bud Hopkins investigated were shown to have women report pregencies being terminated and in latter abductions they have been shown their off spring.Also women's eggs have been taken with male sperm and also in latter abductions they have been shown the hybrids.There s a very wide range of reported abductions involving pregencies that simply are not there after abductions.Also some women have reported to suddenly becoming pregnant after a abductions when they have sworn to be absconding any form of sexual activities and some have said they are not in any kind of sexual relationship or non sexual relationship.:confused::cool:I do recommend a study and read of Bud Hopkins books.:cool:

i think abductions can be both astral and physical

the impregnating requires a physical body, right? this happens all the time, i don't know who the authors mentioned are, but this phenonmenon is certainly not isolated to their research, it is worldwide

i am remembering Credo Mutwa's abduction account, when he was returned without his pants...this is a good indication that abductions can be physcial as well

[bsmurph83]

i think abductions can be both astral and physical

the impregnating requires a physical body, right? this happens all the time, i don't know who the authors mentioned are, but this phenonmenon is certainly not isolated to their research, it is worldwide

i am remembering Credo Mutwa's abduction account, when he was returned without his pants...this is a good indication that abductions can be physcial as well

certainly the military abductions are physical. and their apparent ability to plant false memories makes the whoooooole field of research that much more messier.... :confused:

interesting... but messy. real messy.

[jamesc]

i think abductions can be both astral and physical

the impregnating requires a physical body, right? this happens all the time, i don't know who the authors mentioned are, but this phenomenon is certainly not isolated to their research, it is worldwide(Yes it is a world wide phenomenon but Bud Hopkins has worked hard over the years and his research is one of the leading authorities on abductions. At the same time there is a man ,Dr JOHN MACK who took in my eyes took up this phenomenon and sort of put a tremor through the main stream in his findings).

i am remembering Credo Mutwa's abduction account, when he was returned without his pants...this is a good indication that abductions can be physcial as well

Yes i agree with your views , astral and physical are both possible.If these aliens are years ahead of us in development of both a technology and spiritually way then it begs the question that in their advancements of a spititual nature then would their understanding of astral bodies and projections not be much more advanced .There have been cases of people recalling that they felt that their souls,(astral bodies), were sort of pulled or induced out of their physical bodies while in the presence of these entities.

[jamesc]

i think abductions can be both astral and physical

the impregnating requires a physical body, right? this happens all the time, i don't know who the authors mentioned are, but this phenonmenon is certainly not isolated to their research, it is worldwide

i am remembering Credo Mutwa's abduction account, when he was returned without his pants...this is a good indication that abductions can be physcial as well



This book one of a few by Mack is well worth a study and read.

http://aphrohead.com/pic/18/16/64/f_9781601641618.jpg

“The alien encounter experience seems almost like an outreach program from the cosmos to the consciously impaired.”


"What if the alien encounter phenomenon were subtle in the sense that it may manifest in the physical world but derives from a source which by its very nature could not provide the kind of hard evidence that would satisfy skeptics for whom reality is limited to the material? What if we were to acknowledge that the phenomenon is beyond our present framework of knowledge?
Might not such an attitude of humility become, paradoxically, a way to enlarge upon what could then be learned? Is it possible that adopting an open attitude toward the testimony of witnesses could enable us to learn of unseen realities now obscured by our too limited epistemology, allowing us to rediscover the sacred and the divinity in nature and in ourselves?
I think of these experiences as a crossing over between the material world and what in Eastern philosophy is called the subtle realm. Like a reified “mystic's journey,” experiencers describe being brought into another dimension of reality from which a new perspective on life on Earth is possible. Sensitivity to our dysfunctional ecological and social conditions emerges as many come to feel that every living system is connected to what many call “Source,” or “Home.” An awareness of this relationship must be regained, they say, if we are to create a sustainable, peaceful world.
Having listened to the similar testimony of more than 200 experiencers from the West and from indigenous cultures, I have come to feel that the phenomenon is of great importance to our evolution, regardless of its ontological status."

- JOHN E. MACK, M.D.

“John Mack and I became close friends when, in 1990, I first introduced him to the complexities of UFO abductions. By the time of his death, he had moved to a more spiritualistic view of these traumatic experiences, and Passport to the Cosmos remains an eloquent, insightful statement of his approach to an extraordinary phenomenon.”
— Budd Hopkins, author of Missing Time and Intruders

“Here is a fascinating foray into an exotic world. ...As a serious investigation into a mystifying experience, Mack's account poses questions begging for answers.”
— Publishers Weekly

“…because of its conspicuous attempts to be even handed and the introduction of cross-cultural material, Passport to the Cosmos breaks new ground. ...A credible work on an incredible topic and worth reading.”
— Albert A. Harrison, Ph.D.,
Professor of Psychology, UC Davis,
National Institute for Discovery Science

“Dr. Mack is one of the more credible writers and researchers in the UFO scene and a man who has earned the right to be accorded some consideration.”
— Tom Elliott,
Mensa Bulletin: The Magazine of American Mensa

“In my opinion, Passport to the Cosmos is a monumental – I almost want to say, definitive – contribution to our understanding of the meaning of extraordinary experiences. It is also a very brave book, passionately written and deeply engaging. And more than that – its provocative thesis strikes me as being absolutely on target.”
— Kenneth Ring, Ph.D.,
author of The Omega Project, Lessons from the Light

“Passport to the Cosmos provides the most sophisticated and insightful analysis to date about alien abduction phenomenon. [Mack deserves] thanks for holding his ground in the face of critics.”
— Michael Zimmerman, Ph.D.,
Chair of the Dept. of Philosophy, Tulane University

“Dr. Mack is, in my opinion, now the world's leading authority on alien abductions. Do not assume that [Passport to the Cosmos] is a sequel to Abduction. It is far beyond that. The close encounter experience as it really is. Dr. Mack is probably as close to the truth about this as anyone ever has been.”
— Whitley Strieber, author of Communion

“...a stunning breakthrough in our understanding of ourselves and our place in the larger cosmos. With a rare combination of empiricism, reason, and empathy, he skillfully guides us to reconsider our attachment to the bankrupt materialist worldview and open our minds to the possibilities of a universe of awesome diversity.”
— Ralph Metzner, Ph.D., psychologist and author

“What do people really want when they think about UFOs? According to John Mack's newest book Passport to the Cosmos, the first thing they want is for their experiences to stop. Only after they realize they have no power to stop the experience do they begin to to accept a process that is informative and transformative – a process that propels them out of their narcissistic concerns and towards active involvement with environmental values, the survival of humanity and an exploration of spiritually-based consciousness. ...Perhaps Wilber, the philosopher, might discover he has more in common with Mack than he realizes.”
— The Vancouver Sun


This website complements the book Passport to the Cosmos with an archive of some of the best interviews and writings of the late Pulitzer Prize-winning author and Harvard professor of psychiatry John E. Mack, M.D. (Oct 4, 1929 - Sep 27, 2004)



http://www.johnemackinstitute.org/passport/index.html#backtext

http://www.johnemackinstitute.org/passport/index.html#backtext

http://www.johnemackinstitute.org/passport/index.html#psych

http://www.johnemackinstitute.org/passport/index.html#politic

http://www.johnemackinstitute.org/passport/index.html#edge

http://www.johnemackinstitute.org/passport/index.html#vitae

[geewhizz]

MILAB's in my mind are Nothing to do with Alien Abduction.

They are masked in this subject but have agendas of their own.

[gods sun]

i agree abductions are not physical but astral :) there is no better explanation than that.


read dmt rick strassman and look what the volenteers saw :) end off.

[jamesc]

i agree abductions are not physical but astral :) there is no better explanation than that.


read dmt rick strassman and look what the volenteers saw :) end off.

And what of the physical markings on various victims body's,:confused: sudden loss of pregnancies that some woman have experienced.:confused:Nasal probes that have left PHYSICAL TRACES in the nasla passages of some abductees:confused:Some of these UFOs being seen by independant witnesses on the night and in the vicinity or area were some of these abductions took place??:cool:

I TAKE IT THAT PEOPLE LIKE BUD HOPKINS AND ESPECIALLY DR JOHN MACK MD,PH, AND THERE FINDINGS ARE TO BE IGNORE IN FAVOUR OF ASTRAL ABDUCTIONS.As i see it. it is a mixture of both physical and astral abductions , on the one hand we have Bud Hopkins findings that point strongly to physical abductions and Dr John Macks who has in my view found evidence or circumstantial evidence of both physical and possible astral abductions.

[soothseeker]

And for that matter, can you explain why the military would be chasing astral craft?

Do astral craft show up on radar? If not, what are fastwalkers?

[geewhizz]

And for that matter, can you explain why the military would be chasing astral craft?

Do astral craft show up on radar? If not, what are fastwalkers?

Duh! have you never heard of the shadow government.

[soothseeker]

Duh! have you never heard of the shadow government.

So their chasing themselves then, is this what your saying?

[jamesc]

So their chasing themselves then, is this what your saying?

:D

[geewhizz]

So their chasing themselves then, is this what your saying?

OMG! you have no clue.

The Military also have no clue. Compartmentalization.

[nectars]

They are NEVER physical. If you hear otherwise, they are lying or do not realise that there physical body is asleep and they have diverted their consciousness to the RTZ or Lower Astral fields.

Physical marks like scoops are purely 'Stigmata' like effects and psychosomatic.

Check it out with Applied Kinesiology(muscle testing). Both the above - "True".

[jamesc]

Check it out with Applied Kinesiology(muscle testing). Both the above - "True".



While i do not dismiss SOME abductions having a astral origin i do not either rule out physical abductions , why is this, well what explanation is there for PHYSICAL nasal probes , LOST PREGNANCIES ??Bud Hopkins and people like him have highlighted the above two.Now are we to dismiss the witnesses themselves who clearly state that these abductions happened in this physical world.Some women have had sudden lost of PREGNANCIES, some people have had concurring nose bleeds after abductions only to be asked by their doctors if they have ever had physical nasal surgery.When these people say no they have never had nasal surgery and to be told by their doctors that they must have because ALL evidence points to it only for the doctors to find NO RECORD OF IT IN THEIR MEDICAL HISTORY FILES.Now is one to take this as who do we listen to here, the witnesses and medical doctors maybe??:cool:;)

[branjo]

Alex Collier whether you believe him or not said that his first contact was when he fell asleep as a child while playing in some tall grass with his freinds and after his contact was over, he woke up and it was getting dark. When he went home his mother appaerently gave him a spanking becaues the cops where involved and no one believed him that he was were he said he was. So he took them back to the spot he said he fell asleep and there the grass was all spread and his indentation of his body was still there. Yet the Police and friends said they all checked that exact spot and he wasnt there.

So maybe it could be a case of yes, it is astral but at the same time your body is phased out of the physical so that it won't interfere with the contact or abduction. I mean if its solely astral then what if someone were to give your body a damn good shake in the middle of it, wouldn't that bring you out of the abduction in an instant?

[jamesc]

Alex Collier whether you believe him or not said that his first contact was when he fell asleep as a child while playing in some tall grass with his freinds and after his contact was over, he woke up and it was getting dark. When he went home his mother appaerently gave him a spanking becaues the cops where involved and no one believed him that he was were he said he was. So he took them back to the spot he said he fell asleep and there the grass was all spread and his indentation of his body was still there. Yet the Police and friends said they all checked that exact spot and he wasnt there.

So maybe it could be a case of yes, it is astral but at the same time your body is phased out of the physical so that it won't interfere with the contact or abduction. I mean if its solely astral then what if someone were to give your body a damn good shake in the middle of it, wouldn't that bring you out of the abduction in an instant?

TRUE, i think its a 2 way fold here, the astral can effect the physical body ,it can be attacked and if severe enough it can sometimes leave marks ect on its physical partner.The reason also that i would NOT rule out physical abductions is that THEY ARE NOT ENTIRELY IMPOSSIBLE ,also the findings of researchers and investigators like Dr John Mack and Bud Hopkins clearly show the possible side of physical and astral abductions.:cool:

[bobbydiva]

I think there are both and both may have real and staged versions.

Personally after recently experiencing some lucid/astral dreaming, I'm petty sure people could or might perceive they have been abducted.

[jamesc]

I think there are both and both may have real and staged versions.

Personally after recently experiencing some lucid/astral dreaming, I'm petty sure people could or might perceive they have been abducted.

True and its possible that" people could or might perceive they have been abducted", but could there be advanced intelligencies who have not only understood but attained and evolved to a state were they can have ways of inducing involuntary astral projections in physical abduction situations maybe??

[nectars]

While i do not dismiss SOME abductions having a astral origin i do not either rule out physical abductions , why is this, well what explanation is there for PHYSICAL nasal probes , LOST PREGNANCIES ??Bud Hopkins and people like him have highlighted the above two.Now are we to dismiss the witnesses themselves who clearly state that these abductions happened in this physical world.Some women have had sudden lost of PREGNANCIES, some people have had concurring nose bleeds after abductions only to be asked by their doctors if they have ever had physical nasal surgery.When these people say no they have never had nasal surgery and to be told by their doctors that they must have because ALL evidence points to it only for the doctors to find NO RECORD OF IT IN THEIR MEDICAL HISTORY FILES.Now is one to take this as who do we listen to here, the witnesses and medical doctors maybe??:cool:;)

I wasn't discounting the possibility of it physically happening, just pointing out that most are Astral(mental realm) in nature. This doesn't make it any less real or valid, in fact it makes it much more serious than a physical abduction since your dealing with finer energy bodies(or systems) being manipulated.

As for doctors & witnesses, I would very rarely count on their advice unless in an emergency. I have no need to have their conviction of what they percieve to be true spoon-fed to me. They cant give anything more useable than a rumour based on their apparent truth.

[jamesc]

I wasn't discounting the possibility of it physically happening, just pointing out that most are Astral(mental realm) in nature. This doesn't make it any less real or valid, in fact it makes it much more serious than a physical abduction since your dealing with finer energy bodies(or systems) being manipulated.

As for doctors & witnesses, I would very rarely count on their advice unless in an emergency. I have no need to have their conviction of what they percieve to be true spoon-fed to me. They cant give anything more useable than a rumour based on their apparent truth.

Well these abducters considered these abductions emergencies and a doctors opinion is rather relevant in the cases of unknown nasal probing and lost pregnancies.The point i was making in relation to physical nasal probing ect is the facts that these have been verified by qualified doctors and if anyone would know that then its them.Regardless of ones opinions on ones need or not to consider or reject these doctors opinions it does not change the reality or facts that they have found physical evidence of nasal probing in abdutees when medical records show NO history of any nasal surgery.:cool:As for rumours based on their apperent truth ,is the physical findings done by qualified doctors to be treated as a rumour:confused:, when all evidance and medical facts point to the opposite.:confused:Dr John Mack in his findings and investigations found out through professional examinations of the mental health of his abductees ,that all showed healthy beliefs that they were in fact describing real events based on some physical realities and so called spiritual realities.His findings to me have to be considered in all of this as he opened a new avenue in the abduction processes.:cool:

[soothseeker]

Great post James, very logical. The other thing I was thinking about that provides physical proof is the numerous implants both scaned and on some cases removed.

Some of these implants have been placed in parts of the brain that are impossible to access with our current level of knowledge and ability without damage. If we were to try and remove them it would cause extreme damage and most probably even cause death.

[jamesc]

Great post James, very logical. The other thing I was thinking about that provides physical proof is the numerous implants both scaned and on some cases removed.

Some of these implants have been placed in parts of the brain that are impossible to access with our current level of knowledge and ability without damage. If we were to try and remove them it would cause extreme damage and most probably even cause death.

Yes you are correct, there have been numerous cases of implants. As you pointed out the placement of these implants to certain areas of the brain do indicate intelligent design and purpose , in short, attempting to remove these implants because of the locations is dangerous.Some of these implants have supposedly been shown on x-rays from various abductees in the forms of unknown bright objects or unknowns in various locations of their brains.

[geewhizz]

Implants or bits of glass?

I do believe that we get implanted but they are astral body implants. I have had one removed from my ear (deep down the canal near brain) but this was done astrally. It certainly felt physical at the time though.

This is the problem, people don't realise how similar the different dimensions are. You can still feel things but its done with extra sensory or different senses.

[soothseeker]

Would an astral implant show up on an x-ray?

[soothseeker]

[QUOTE=geewhizz;1256618]Implants or bits of glass?QUOTE]

Some of these implants have been buried deep within the central regions of the brain. It would seem illogical for them to be glass as it would do a large amount of damage reaching such a deep area.

Also if I somehow got a piece of glass lodged in my brain, I'm sure I would remember it happening to me. It's not the sort of thing your likely to forget in a hurry (unless it damages the part of the brain that deals with memory).

[jamesc]

Implants or bits of glass?

I do believe that we get implanted but they are astral body implants. I have had one removed from my ear (deep down the canal near brain) but this was done astrally. It certainly felt physical at the time though.

This is the problem, people don't realise how similar the different dimensions are. You can still feel things but its done with extra sensory or different senses.

Yes you are right about the similarity between the astral dimensions and the earth dimension.They need to be as both directly effect each other , also there are astral sub divisions , lower and higher dimensions too.The closest we can come to the physical body is the lower or etheric body , this it is a body made up of slighter lesser density than the physical body.The x-rays of some of these implants or unknown bright anomalies do suggest that these were preformed physically.

[shellygurrrl]

This is a very interesting topic, as I had an experience which led me to believe abductions are not physical either.

[shellygurrrl]

The cases that Bud Hopkins investigated were shown to have women report pregencies being terminated and in latter abductions they have been shown their off spring.Also women's eggs have been taken with male sperm and also in latter abductions they have been shown the hybrids.There s a very wide range of reported abductions involving pregencies that simply are not there after abductions.Also some women have reported to suddenly becoming pregnant after a abductions when they have sworn to be absconding any form of sexual activities and some have said they are not in any kind of sexual relationship or non sexual relationship.:confused::cool:I do recommend a study and read of Bud Hopkins books.:cool:

I read Hopkins' Intruders and preferred The Watchers by Raymond Fowler. It was a nice synchronicity that I read the Watchers first, and then Hopkins' book mentioned it.

[shellygurrrl]

certainly the military abductions are physical. and their apparent ability to plant false memories makes the whoooooole field of research that much more messier.... :confused:

interesting... but messy. real messy.
Now see, my experience left me with the distinct impression that somehow the military was involved (and something to do with remote viewing experiments, which I have some amateur level ability in, and at the time was experiencing before the experience). But it was definitely NOT a physical "abduction."

[camreeno]

That's not completely true. We have numerous cases of implantations, and when the pieces of metal were taken out of peoples bodies they apparently emmitted frequencies. Not only that but the implantations had no entry points. There was one particular case where a piece was examined and contained metals with isotopes not native to the earth and was even concluded to be Extra Terrestrial by forensic scientists.

[branjo]

And apparently the lack of reaction by the surrounding flesh is a good point also.