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merlincove
02-09-2009, 12:12 PM
Getting out of debt, extracts taken from http://fmotl.com

fmotl is a great sourse of information, and i for one valueVeronica's invaluable input to the freeman cause and way of life.

http://www.fmotl.com/HowToGetOutOfDebt.htm

http://www.fmotl.com/LoansScam.htm

This is valuable information to anyone who wants a heads up into how the banking system and powers who would be attempt to run our lives through our understanding of £ / $.

Enjoy.

Whenever you receive a demand for payment from a Bank, Building Society, or Loan Company, all you need to do is to respond correctly, the drift of which is to request them to provide three things:
1. Validation of the debt (the actual accounting), and

2. Verification of their claim against you (a sworn affidavit or even just a signed invoice - signed is important!), and

3. A copy of the contract binding both parties.

Write to say you would be happy to pay any financial obligation you might lawfully (important word!) owe as soon as these three documents are received.

They can't validate the debt because they never sustained a loss.

They can't verify any claim against you - as a flesh and blood human being with a living soul - they will be attempting to talk to your legal fiction NAME.

They can't produce a copy of the contract because a lawfully binding one doesn't exist.

What exists is an unenforceable unilateral contract.

What they refer to as 'your contract with us' is not a valid, bilateral, agreement - since the four requirements of a lawful, binding contract were not met on the Credit Card (or whatever) 'application', namely:

1. Full Disclosure (we are not told that we are actually creating the credit with our signature), and

2. Equal Consideration. They bring nothing to the table, hence they have nothing to lose. ("Consideration" means 'something of value', e.g. money, or an item of value - something they are trading for your signature/promise - something they have to lose), and

3. Lawful Terms and Conditions (they are based upon fraud), and

4. Signatures of BOTH Parties/Meeting of the Minds (Corporations can't sign because they have no Right, or Mind, to contract, because they are soulless legal fictions)

Credit Cards and Loans are win/win for them, and lose/lose for everyone else - it is the slickest con game on the planet.

More detail, with regard to Mortgages (which are slightly special - because dwellings can have encumbrances attached), can be found here

But you have to know, and realise all this. If you don't they will steamroller you. They will try every trick in the book, because it is their life-blood.

Stick to your guns.

ENSURE THAT EVERY LETTER YOU SEND CLEARLY STATES "Without Prejudice", which means that you reserve all Rights in law, and yield to no contract unless it is lawful by virtue meeting the four conditions above.

Conditions (1) and (2) can never be met. Simply because they never have any money to lend in the first place. Banks are not allowed, by law, to lend any Depositor's money. Loan Companies do not have any Deposits anyway. Therefore they can only ever lend what you gave to them in the first place, based on your signature on the Loan Application.

THEY LEND BACK TO YOU - WHAT YOU GAVE TO THEM - VIA YOUR SIGNATURE/PROMISE!

They will get the message, because they know they are operating fraudulently.

But what about my Credit Rating?

IN THEORY, since you have no judgment against you, your Credit Rating should remain intact.

(I did say … "In theory")

My son says "Well, yes, but two wrongs don't make a right"

Banks/Building Societies/Loan Companies have never had, nor ever will have, any money to lend you … except your own (created by your signature on a Promissory Note - called a Loan Agreement).

So they con you into paying them in order to use your own money.

The 'wrong' is that they charge you for the use of your own money. It is 'right' not to let them play this confidence trick on you.

If you do (somehow) end up in court

You will be asked your name, or whether you name is <whatever> … e.g. Veronica Chapman.

The correct reply is "If I tell you my name, will I have a contract with you?"

If the answer is "No", then you say "I'm a flesh and blood human being, with a living soul, and commonly called Veronica" (Obviously substitute your own Given Name - or use mine which would constitute a fraud … your choice). If they continue to use your legal fiction NAME (e.g. 'Ms. Chapman'), do your best to ignore it, until they make it clear they are addressing you, and then repeat "I'm sorry, were you addressing me? I'm commonly called <whatever>".

If the answer is "Yes" then you can say "Then you need to provide me with FULL DISCLOSURE, some CONSIDERATION, the LAWFUL TERMS AND CONDITIONS, and we would both need to SIGN. Is that not so?".

Either way, you would be seriously looking at "Case Dismissed"!

If they threatened 'Contempt of Court' (a trick they often use), then the response is "Is that CIVIL or CRIMINAL contempt?".

DO NOT SAY ANYTHING ELSE UNTIL YOU RECEIVE AN ANSWER. (Do not be sucked into filling in 'empty silence').

If the answer is "Criminal", then the response is "Who makes the CLAIM, what is the CRIME, and who is the INJURED PARTY?". If they say "The COURT makes the CLAIM", the response is "You know that the court is not a human being, and that only human beings, blessed with a living soul, can make a CLAIM!".

If the answer is "Civil", then the response is "Please explain the CONTRACT. Will you provide FULL DISCLOSURE, what is the CONSIDERATION, and will you provide the SIGNATURE of a human being with a living soul?"

(I wish I had known about this when I was young!)

(By the way, they generally hate LIPs - Litigants In Person - who actually know the ropes. On the other hand, if you stick to your guns, there's not a whole lot they can do about it. But they are sharks, and will try every trick. You need to remain alert. More information here)

Veronica: of the Chapman family

(January, 2009)

**************

Here's how the Loans Scam works

(And why you should NEVER feel sorry for Banks and so on)

(As simplified as I can make it, based on the work of Robert-Arthur: Menard, Mary-Elizabeth: Croft and (to some extent Winston Shrout and Irene-Maus: Gravenhorst), and John R. Dempsey of Sovereign Trust. I've just tried to reduce it to absolute fundamentals)

1) Banks: They take deposits. These are held in trust for the depositor. They must, by law, always be prepared to return any and all deposits back to depositors on demand. That's the LAW. They would not be able to do that if they were ever to lend out any money on deposit to anyone requesting a loan. They cannot, therefore, lend or invest anything entrusted to them. So the question is: Where do they get the money from, in order to loan it to you?

2) Loan Companies, Credit Card Companies, Building Societies: They don't take deposit money anyway (I'm talking about the 'older version' of Building Societies before they became banks. I'm referring to the way they would just issue mortgages. Their 'banking' activities are controlled as in (1), above). So the question is: Where do they get the money from, in order to loan it to you as a mortgage?

Leave that question pending for a moment.

3) What is a cheque? Paper, printing ink, somewhere you can hand-write a Payee, and Amount (in numbers and words), a Date, and somewhere to write your signature.

4) What is a Loan Application/Agreement? Paper, printing ink, somewhere a Payee will be written (the name of the Loan Company), somewhere for an Amount (in numbers and words), a Date, and somewhere to write your signature.

Do you see any similarity between (3) & (4)?

A Loan Agreement is a cheque. (Cheques can be written on anything ... even toilet paper ... provided it contains the essential information so as to enable correct clearance processing)

You send off the Loan Agreement to the Loan Company ... and they CASH YOUR CHEQUE! They cash it with an organisation that has the power to issue 'money' for that purpose (for example the Treasury, or the Bank of England, etc)

NOW THEY HAVE THE MONEY, IN CASH, TO LEND TO YOU!

Simple. Wasn't it?

But wait! Sure, they provided the 'service' of converting your cheque into funds within an account you can drawn upon (write other cheques against, use a Credit Card against, etc). And they could do that because they knew how to do that. And yes, that was a service. And yes, they should be paid a fee for that service.

But wait again! What is their 'fee'? Their 'servicing fee'?

Oh ... only THE ENTIRE AMOUNT OF YOUR ORIGINAL CHEQUE, PLUS INTEREST!

That's all they ask for .. in order to provide the original service!

How to do they ensure they collect this 'service fee'. By giving you a Payment Book! And they make sure they cream off the INTEREST, before applying the remainder as PAYMENT. In fact they even cajole you into never-ending INTEREST by specifying a minimum payment equal to the INTEREST they want. (Knowing full well you'll often opt for that, thereby allowing them to roll the whole thing on endlessly)

Now let's view this another way.

If you write a cheque for £100, and send it to someone else (the Payee), and they cash it - DO YOU EXPECT THE BANK TO DEDUCT ANOTHER £100 PLUS INTEREST - FOR ITSELF - AS WELL?

No? You don't when you write a cheque you 'see' as a cheque do you?

Well, then, why should they do that just because you can't 'see' a Loan Agreement as the cheque it actually is?

MONEY IS CREATED WHEN YOU SIGN A PIECE OF PAPER AGREEING TO PAY.

AND THAT'S THE ONLY WAY MONEY IS -EVER- CREATED.

Your 'promise to pay' creates money. Yours, and everyone else's.

So what -should- happen, then?

What should happen is that you write out a cheque - promising to pay - and send it to the Treasury yourself. They would then 'cash' it (in the same way they do that for a Bank), by updating an account with the amount you specified, from which you can draw funds as you need them.

That's it. Your 'promise to pay' stands until the end of time. That's all money is. A 'promise to pay', which stands until the end of time.

All money. "All thee bits of it".

Check out a Banknote. What does it say? "I promise to pay the Bearer on demand the sum of so-many-pounds". And signed by the Governor of the Bank of England (in the UK). A banknote is a Promissory Note - just like a cheque or Loan Agreement or any other IOU. An IOU that stands until the end of time.

What should a Bank do? It should simply accept the 'cash' from the Treasury, and operate the account for you.

And claim a reasonable - SMALL - fee for providing you with this convenience.

If you agree to some of your funds being invested, the bank should deduct their fees as commission, and not bother you with any other 'charges' at all.

THIS IS WHERE WE NEED TO GET TO. To be able to convert your SIGNATURE directly, without any Bank or Loan Company intervening.

And now for something completely different

When you sent them your cheque (aka Loan Agreement) and they cashed it, they could have just walked away with your money. If they'd done that, you wouldn't have known any difference.

They could have just written to you and said "Sorry, we didn't approve this loan, after all"

You would have been miffed at not getting the loan but, on the other hand, slightly relieved you didn't have the payments hanging over you, believing that the whole thing was 'dead'.

Dead? They were 'up' by the amount of the loan! And you were empty-handed! And you had given them that amount!

Dead? I should cocoa!

No. They are greedy, greedy, greedy, greedy. They want INTEREST. Never-ending INTEREST. They POSITIVELY HATE IT when you pay off a loan. Have you noticed? Try getting a loan, and then paying it back immediately. TRY IT.

No. They can lend you your own money, and then claim it back PLUS INTEREST, if they don't just walk away.

That's why they don't just walk away.

Every loan taken out generates money for them. Generated by your payments back.

That's where banks (etc.) get their money from. All they need to do is to make as sure as possible you've fallen for this SCAM sufficient times in the past, so as to be pretty sure you'll fall for it again.

If you 'default' on payments, they had ALREADY BEEN PAID IN FULL RIGHT AT THE START. They took the risk with it. Exactly the same risk as when they invest anywhere. If prices go down, they simply lose, write off the experience, and try elsewhere. Do they send bailiffs if 'prices go down'? Err ... no.

They 'involve' themselves when (as explained above) they have no need to be. The risks of doing so are, therefore, entirely theirs, and consequently there is absolutely no need to feel sorry for them.

YOU, on the other hand, don't owe ANYTHING to ANYONE.

What YOU did was to 'make some money' - and then spend it the way you wanted to spend it.

And why not? 'Money was made' by you SIGNING a cheque and thereby 'promising to pay'. I repeat, that's the only way 'money is ever made'.

They were the ones who jammed their oar into that simple mechanism.

And now for something that gets really silly

Mortgages. The method for obtaining the cash amount is the same as described above. But there is more to mortgages that meet the eye. (More, over and above, straight loans).

Here a property, in the form of a dwelling, is being transferred from one owner to another (actually one keeper to another, not owner, but that's another subject).

Now, it is illegal to mortgage a property you don't own. The property is considered to be the security on the loan. How can you be providing 'security' when you don't - at that time - actually own the thing?

And, secondly, it is illegal to transfer a property/dwelling that has not yet been paid for.

So ... what does this mean? You can't establish a loan, because you don't have any security to offer. Therefore you can't pay for it, because you can't get the loan money. (Err ... no. You can't offer you current home as security, because you are probably in the process of selling it!) And, since you can't pay for it, the Seller can't transfer it into your name.

But ... on the other hand ... people can and do establish mortgages, do buy homes, and do move house.

How is this done?

Well ... it happens by 'magic'. The Bank/Building Society uses 'magic'.

Not really paranormal 'magic', of course ... more akin to fraud, in actual fact.

John Dempsey, of Sovereign Trust, explains in absolute detail how the Magic Bank operates.


(Sovereign Trust, btw, don't employ any form of magic/fraud. They do it honestly, openly, candidly, and all above board)

Veronica: of the Chapman family

(January, 2009)

comma berenices
02-09-2009, 12:40 PM
First class post merlincove,I actually have a preference for veronica's site.

I have used this to challenge a Credit card agreement,the bank in question sold the alleged debt to a DCA.Without replying to any points in my letter,i had replies but they skirted around the finer points,did'nt send a copy of the agreement either,they were in dishonour.invalid default notice too.:D

I send them the "no contract with third party" letter.They pass it around amongst the other DCA's.I did thank one for paying the bank in a phone call:D.

I await the day a DCA takes it to court.If they ever carry out the threat.

Now that would be fun.

merlincove
02-09-2009, 12:57 PM
cheers mate

yeah veronica certainly has put time in to create a great understanding.

i don't think thirdparty collectors are abble to take the thing to court, unless they are subsidary's of the original loan company. Ie Alliance and liecester have their own collections team.

A 3rd part dca will buy the debt for as little as £0.05 per £1. So in any event a debt of £1000 has a value of like £50. Therefore they can not produce a bill, signed in respect of purgery etc to the tune they claim, £1000 + costs. So a court may not be able to uphold their claim, just as they can't when addressed in respect of proof of claim.

:D

rosix
02-09-2009, 01:04 PM
FMOTL.com has a lot of good stuff on it and a lot of 'good people' there but a lot of the 'good people' there insist on imposing their morals on other people and will then justify that by saying that FMOTL is all about self-responsibility and morals etc. etc. etc.

I understand them not being particularly eager to 'help' with someone who they don't expect will give anything back, but with something like dealing with your bank in a mortgage case, the specifics of WHY one needs/wants help with the case is actually completely irrelevant and will do nothing but hinder our progress in this field.

No. They are greedy, greedy, greedy, greedy. They want INTEREST. Never-ending INTEREST. They POSITIVELY HATE IT when you pay off a loan. Have you noticed? Try getting a loan, and then paying it back immediately. TRY IT

this should be one of the major things that should set off alarm-bells in people's heads.. if the banks are oh so concerned about you being able to "PAY BACK THE LOAN" and NOT, as is the case, be oh so concerned if you are able to sustain payments with interest over as long as possible, why do they anything to make you not pay off loans straight away? I have done this before, I paid off a loan a while ago before even 30 days was up and the person at the bank I was speaking with could not understand it and was trying to say that I might as well wait a few months otherwise what was the point etc. haha

the moral man
02-09-2009, 01:21 PM
Dear merlincove
kind regards
I have no doubts that the financial system is an exploitative monster, but that is the reality of Western civilization and nothing short of living in the amazon will correct it.
The fact is that our society is corrupt from top to bottom, we are heavily taxed and living in a heavily priced society.
Now this is never going to change, no amount of smart articles is going to erase the reality that a monetary society brings us.
The only way to erase the problem as best we can is by taking control of ourselves.
We buy rubbish that we don't need, 99% of the things that we buy we can live without.
Most things that we buy are either celebrity products and overpriced trinkets so that we can show off to people.
Let us do the right thing and purge ourselves of the need to buy things based on greed and focus on spending on things that we need.
If people don't get into credit unneccesarily then the need to complain about banking credit will dissapeare.
As Margaret Thatcher rightly said, it is the responsibility of individuals to help themselves and each other and not to place every decision at the states judgement.
Part of the problem is the fact that parents treat their kids like dirt in this country and will throw them on the streets if they can't pay rent.
What is the difference between a cold hearted state and a cold hearted parent?
Individuals are just as bad as the state, they cause the credit loop to go on without stopping and it is only through sound judgement that we can end this loop once and for all.
But don't bank (pardon the pun) on the majority breaking the debt loop because they are Minions and encouraged by the state to be at its mercy.
It is only through the help of your Higher Self that you can break loops, but Minions have no Higher Self and will maintain the majority problem because they are a group Soul.
You cannot solve a majorical problem with the knowledge that you gave, you can only apply it to yourself and those people with the ability to note your words of wisdom.
You are a nice guy, but you need to realize that your Higher Self is only interested in your reality and not anyone elses.
yours thankfully
John

foobar
02-09-2009, 01:27 PM
Your credit rating is just a score that these fraudsters share amongst themselves to indicate what rich pickings you are.

You should be quite happy for them never to lend you a penny of fraudulent money again.

comma berenices
02-09-2009, 01:32 PM
cheers mate

yeah veronica certainly has put time in to create a great understanding.

i don't think thirdparty collectors are abble to take the thing to court, unless they are subsidary's of the original loan company. Ie Alliance and liecester have their own collections team.

A 3rd part dca will buy the debt for as little as £0.05 per £1. So in any event a debt of £1000 has a value of like £50. Therefore they can not produce a bill, signed in respect of purgery etc to the tune they claim, £1000 + costs. So a court may not be able to uphold their claim, just as they can't when addressed in respect of proof of claim.

:D



There are two DCA's that will pass debts to solicitors,Bryan Carter and Howard Cohen are the solicitors in question,they will apply for a CCJ at northampton County court Bulk center,(it's not even a court).These two are greedy money making b******ds.I have just sent a proof of claim to Bryan Carter not heard back as yet,this was for a debt for someone else.
For the most part DCA's a re full of s***t,and as you quote the price they pay for the debt is minimal,that's why they offer a discount on alot of occaisions,they let you think they are doing you a favour;).

Poor delusional soles really beleive this real:D.

comma berenices
02-09-2009, 01:39 PM
Your credit rating is just a score that these fraudsters share amongst themselves to indicate what rich pickings you are.

You should be quite happy for them never to lend you a penny of fraudulent money again.

Your quite correct,but also designed to bring shame upon you if you have a bad credit score,there's a social stigma attached to a person that can't get credit.:(

merlincove
02-09-2009, 01:40 PM
Wow, john, that is a great post

:D

i agree with everything that you said.

There is very much a need for us to escape the greed frenzy and to live within our means. And if my foresight is correct i foresee that the credit crunch will do just that - it will force each of us into an affordable living regime whereby we live according to our means, and this will affecdt great change in the way greed works.

There will be those who fall by the weighside, unfortunately there will be casualities in that, but they will be casualities of their own greed and hunger to feed ego in obtaining those celebrity trinkets you spoke of. That is their journey.

But ultimately, understanding the tools that society bind us with, as per the OP, we are better equped to see the depth of deception all around us. And that to me is an important factor in ading 'wake up' within us and helping us escape the quagmire and aim for higher grounds, graduation, ascension.

Freeing the mind has many aspects, and i see the understanding that the OP affects is a step in the right direction.

>>>You cannot solve a majorical problem with the knowledge that you gave, you can only apply it to yourself and those people with the ability to note your words of wisdom.<<<

and this is my reason for posting, for it helps other apply it to their Self and others still.

And it affords an escape for those with higher self sense and comprehension, and at the same time affords the trap to minion aspects.

;)

krakhead
02-09-2009, 01:42 PM
Your credit rating is just a score that these fraudsters share amongst themselves to indicate what rich pickings you are.

My next door neighbour, a gentleman in his sixties, tried to get a mobile phone on contract last year but couldn't because he'd never (other than his mortgage) used any form of credit in his life and so had no credit rating!

It's a fucked up world innit? :D

rosix
02-09-2009, 01:53 PM
My next door neighbour, a gentleman in his sixties, tried to get a mobile phone on contract last year but couldn't because he'd never (other than his mortgage) used any form of credit in his life and so had no credit rating!

It's a fucked up world innit? :D

yea this is a horrific joke

it is a horrific joke

comma berenices
02-09-2009, 02:09 PM
yea this is a horrific joke

it is a horrific joke

Tis true,i know someone that has his own buiseness, sucessful i might add,never behind with a payment,his only debt being a credit card which he clears the balance every month,can't get a mortgage.WTF.

He's really upset about it,but i told him he's not the sort of customer the banks want,he doe'snt make them any money.

rosix
02-09-2009, 02:26 PM
Tis true,i know someone that has his own buiseness, sucessful i might add,never behind with a payment,his only debt being a credit card which he clears the balance every month,can't get a mortgage.WTF.

He's really upset about it,but i told him he's not the sort of customer the banks want,he doe'snt make them any money.

EXACTLY THESE SITUATIONS SHOULD SEND OFF HUGE ALARM BELLS IN PEOPLE'S HEADS, I know of people and families who are in exactly the same situation, more or less. He should research how you give yourself a good rating (just like private corporations can give you bad credit, private corps. can give you good credit..), I do not want to advertise any of it here though.

bsmurph83
02-09-2009, 02:29 PM
ah, there's some great info in that first post, merlin. some bits i haven't seen before. bewdy.

tien an
02-09-2009, 03:30 PM
There's something about this that is gnawing away for attention at the back of my brain:

Your 'loan agreement' is actually a cheque, which your bank cashes with the Bank of England.
According to what we're told, The Bank of England lends this money to your bank...at interest (or your bank borrows it from another bank...it's still 'money of account') and then your bank recuperates the loan (and the interest they have to pay to the BofE, and their own 'interest' ie their interest in the affair).

So what is the original loan based on?
Your sweat equity...it must be!.

Unless you're the owner of a company (you are, but leave that aside for a moment), and you can offset the loan against the value of your business (look up definition of 'balance sheet'), you shouldn't be able to borrow anything...unless the BofE has a lien, charge, or other right of appropriation on YOU.
The 'YOU' above is significant; it refers to the 'company' you own that I mentioned above.
Your birth certificate represents the corporate entity, called your PERSON, that the government created when your birth was registered.

This is the system as I understand it.

If we compare the above to the registration of a berth of a water-going vessel with the Port Authorities, and the fact that ownership of the vessel (and all those who sail in her including, but not restricted to inanimate objects) passes temporarily to the Port Authority, we can see parallels with the banking system for loans and mortgages.

If the BofE has rights of appropriation on our sweat equity (sold to them by the govt. without our consent), then the 'contract' that was the sale of these 'bonds' (or whatever they're called...my research hasn't gone that far that I'm able to reel the details of at will...), must necessarily be null and void OR passed to us, the rightful owners. (I say 'rightful', because I cannot prove it at law, common or otherwise.).

Have I got it?

Please prove me wrong, someone: It would mean that this madness isn't actually happening.

Heavenly Peace,
tian an.

merlincove
02-09-2009, 04:10 PM
Have I got it?


You certainly have tien an :D

Man i remember reading your post to rob menard some time ago, you have certainly been busy sinse then my friend.

The whole thing is scandalous isn't it?

It is something to behold isn't it!

i think you managed, in your last post, to word what i've been attempting to say for a few posts :D

And then we can take into considerations our NI payments too. Where does all that go?

The taxes every man and woman pay on just about everything - they'll be taxing us to turn around soon - amount to billions and billions of pounds every month. Where does all that go? You can't tel me that all the money raised in taxes pays for what we are told it does. If the gvt spent these monies on hospitals, education, roads, then we would not be in the mess we are in.

How many people are working in england?

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?ID=6

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/tax/income/article.html?in_article_id=424885&in_page_id=77

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/may/15/qanda.globalrecession

Apparently there are >60m people in the uk. if one third of these people work (a shoddy estimate given the data on the site above which says 29m) then that is >20 million workers. If each 'person' pays £10 tax per week, again this nis no-where near the correct amount, but i'm working on examples only, then that is around:

£520 a year x 20,000,000 = £10,400,000,000

Now that is a frightening figure. Over ten billion pounds? Can that be right? It is what my calculator says, i hope i've worked it out right!

Ten billion, 400 million pounds! It equates, roughly to one years tax payments every year from the UK's working population. And i have erred very much on the side of caution, with low figures. The true amount is perhaps half as much (or more) again!

And you can say that the same figure goes on National Insurance too. And remember that for every £1 we put into our National Insurance pot the gvt as well as our employers put money in to. The NI payments are much more than the figure we see on our wage packets.

And with 20 million or so homes in the uk, there is also 20 million x £1000 council tax on top of that.

So where does all that money go? Over 30 billion pouinds, every year?

And all that money is accumilating interest some place. When we see these banks in the news who have apparently 'lost' all those millions, iceland banks etc - where has that money gone, because it has gone somewhere, it can't simply dissapear over night can it? People put their savings into banks, in this case our councils put 'their' monies into these banks and now it has all gone. So who has got that money?

The whole thing is a huge fucking con. And it really does need to end before humanity can progress.

i aint fantastic with numbers so if the figures are wrong, please feel free to rip them apart and give some correct amounts :cool:

If the gvt wanted this countries population to be out of debt, it could easilly make it happen. The fact is that the world gouvernemtns are happy to keep us in debt, and most of the population are happy to be in debt.

theoneandonly
02-09-2009, 07:34 PM
Hey.. i have a question... its about your credit rating/score.

If you were to try to get rid of the debt because it wasnt a Lawful agreement in the first place... does this actually affect you credit score because what if you did this but then in the future you needed to get another loan or a mortgage? They will most probably refuse right?

Is there anyway to improve a credit score?

thanksss :)

tien an
02-09-2009, 07:35 PM
You certainly have tien an :D

Man i remember reading your post to rob menard some time ago, you have certainly been busy sinse then my friend.

The whole thing is scandalous isn't it?

It is something to behold isn't it!

i think you managed, in your last post, to word what i've been attempting to say for a few posts :D

And then we can take into considerations our NI payments too. Where does all that go?

The taxes every man and woman pay on just about everything - they'll be taxing us to turn around soon - amount to billions and billions of pounds every month. Where does all that go? You can't tel me that all the money raised in taxes pays for what we are told it does. If the gvt spent these monies on hospitals, education, roads, then we would not be in the mess we are in.

How many people are working in england?

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?ID=6

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/tax/income/article.html?in_article_id=424885&in_page_id=77

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/may/15/qanda.globalrecession

Apparently there are >60m people in the uk. if one third of these people work (a shoddy estimate given the data on the site above which says 29m) then that is >20 million workers. If each 'person' pays £10 tax per week, again this nis no-where near the correct amount, but i'm working on examples only, then that is around:

£520 a year x 20,000,000 = £10,400,000,000

Now that is a frightening figure. Over ten billion pounds? Can that be right? It is what my calculator says, i hope i've worked it out right!

Ten billion, 400 million pounds! It equates, roughly to one years tax payments every year from the UK's working population. And i have erred very much on the side of caution, with low figures. The true amount is perhaps half as much (or more) again!

And you can say that the same figure goes on National Insurance too. And remember that for every £1 we put into our National Insurance pot the gvt as well as our employers put money in to. The NI payments are much more than the figure we see on our wage packets.

And with 20 million or so homes in the uk, there is also 20 million x £1000 council tax on top of that.

So where does all that money go? Over 30 billion pouinds, every year?

And all that money is accumilating interest some place. When we see these banks in the news who have apparently 'lost' all those millions, iceland banks etc - where has that money gone, because it has gone somewhere, it can't simply dissapear over night can it? People put their savings into banks, in this case our councils put 'their' monies into these banks and now it has all gone. So who has got that money?

The whole thing is a huge fucking con. And it really does need to end before humanity can progress.

i aint fantastic with numbers so if the figures are wrong, please feel free to rip them apart and give some correct amounts :cool:

If the gvt wanted this countries population to be out of debt, it could easilly make it happen. The fact is that the world gouvernemtns are happy to keep us in debt, and most of the population are happy to be in debt.


(Comment on bold text)

Thank you; yes, I've been quite diligent. My energies had to go somewhere.
And thank you again: I'm perhaps blessed in that I sometimes manage to sum up things well. (doesn't always work though...).


I'm afraid your figures are a bit off, merlincove.
You've erred on the side of caution: It's actually much more than that.

You have to consider that most people pay 20% income tax.
Then there's between 3 & 5 % NI contributions.

Going on that information alone, you could easily double the 10billion you mentioned.

The thing is; if everyone's share of the British 'wealth' (GDP?) were accessible to pay for housing, food and medical insurance, along with generous travel concessions for everyone, our human rights would be fulfilled.

To do that, control of the supply of money would have to pass (back) to the government (and not the central bank).
The above necessities (shelter, food and travel) could be offset using your foreign situs trust (the system as it stands is not bad, in my humble opinion, it just benefits the wrong entity).

Then we would have to stop waging war (to make money).
Then, there would be enough money to pay for R&D in solar and other energy sources that would rid us of our shackles to both oil and the necessity to fight over it.

As you pointed out, merlincove, focus would have to move away from material "values", and onto study of what I'd like to call the fifth dimension: your interior / your life.

Everyone has something inside them waiting to get out.
If they didn't, they'd be happy with a more simple existence, but it would be their choice.

...I could go on forever...

The thing is, we've come this far; how pathetic it would be to just roll over and accept the system that's thundering toward us on tiptoes.

We do need a fundamental change.

Individual responsibility is a good place to start.

tian an.

girlgye
02-09-2009, 07:44 PM
FMOTL.com has a lot of good stuff on it and a lot of 'good people' there but a lot of the 'good people' there insist on imposing their morals on other people and will then justify that by saying that FMOTL is all about self-responsibility and morals etc. etc. etc.

I understand them not being particularly eager to 'help' with someone who they don't expect will give anything back, but with something like dealing with your bank in a mortgage case, the specifics of WHY one needs/wants help with the case is actually completely irrelevant and will do nothing but hinder our progress in this field.



this should be one of the major things that should set off alarm-bells in people's heads.. if the banks are oh so concerned about you being able to "PAY BACK THE LOAN" and NOT, as is the case, be oh so concerned if you are able to sustain payments with interest over as long as possible, why do they anything to make you not pay off loans straight away? I have done this before, I paid off a loan a while ago before even 30 days was up and the person at the bank I was speaking with could not understand it and was trying to say that I might as well wait a few months otherwise what was the point etc. haha

Actually my experience on that site was far from pleasant. Will never visit it again.

rosix
02-09-2009, 08:56 PM
Actually my experience on that site was far from pleasant. Will never visit it again.

really? I seem to remember seeing your posts there and from my vague recollection you appeared to be content, but maybe it has been similar things that have put me off it slightly?

rosix
02-09-2009, 09:00 PM
Hey.. i have a question... its about your credit rating/score.

If you were to try to get rid of the debt because it wasnt a Lawful agreement in the first place... does this actually affect you credit score because what if you did this but then in the future you needed to get another loan or a mortgage? They will most probably refuse right?

Is there anyway to improve a credit score?

thanksss :)

This is a very good question about an issue that I am actively addressing at the moment. I have sent a notice in to Experian and will let people here know how it goes. Also, there are routes less traveled by when it comes to improving your rating.. and no doubt the system is easily manipulated in a completely 101% legal and cheap albeit time-consuming way. The system is complete bullshit, it's not even especially effective for the purpose it's meant to serve the companies that utilise it.

tien an
03-09-2009, 10:29 PM
I spent twelve years away from this country (1990-2002) and when I returned I was in the position of not being able to get a loan for a couple of hundred quid!
The banker explained to me that I had no credit rating and he could therefore not lend money to me.
He also suggested that I take out two or three store cards (Debenhams, Tesco...anything), and adhere to their rules strictly.
He suggested that the Tesco card could be used to buy the weekly shopping, which I would be buying anyway, and that although I would have the inconvenience of paying it in a roundabout way, I would be creating a decent credit rating.

He was right. I did this for about a year. I was then allowed an overdraft.

Then I made the big mistake of taking out a loan.

Then I made the mistake of losing my job (and falling behind on payments),
which, when the water got pretty hot and I was clutching at straws, led to an even bigger mistake of...listening to the bank when they said:
"Our Debt Management Department is full of experts; they will help you."
All they did was 'help' me 're-finance' my loan...
Thus, a £7,000 debt has exploded to £17,000 in the space of 18 months...

Usury.

I'd really like 'moral man' to answer this post.
I'd like to hear what he has to say about usury, Common Purpose (inasmuch as it is fundamental to the oppression of morally conscionable, hard-working men and women in this and other countries).
I'd particularly like to hear his opinion on the snort of derision from my solicitor at my mentioning of 'morals'.

"Morals, dear boy? We're not dealing with morals here: This is business!"

tian an.