Religion 'v' Spirituality

[reality man]

To put an end to our arguments in this religion forum, I feel we need to define the obvious differences between people present within these forums. I too have been involved in these disputes and as I am only noticing these differences today, I wish to help others see these differences, since by not seeing them, we cannot understand where each other is coming from. We seem to have 2 different and distinct categories - one is religion and the other spirituality. Both are totally different in approach and philosophy, hence the arguments which arise amongst us - so below I have defined both so we can better understand where each other is coming from within these forums:


Spirituality is based on direct and personal experiences of dimensions of reality or higher states of consciousness, it involves a desire to know what God and Spirit is through personal experience of that reality - and does not require any beliefs or a specific place or mediator for communication with the divine. It is a trial and error personal scientific approach to God, truth and reality. Spirituality involves realizing that God lives within us all - spirituality wants the realization that "I am one with God"


Religion, although originating from the direct experiences of its founders, appears to have largely lost touch with the personal experience of the spiritual source, becoming instead organizations comprised of specific places of worship, defined rituals and official mediators. It requires for one to believe certain things, in order to define oneself as being a member of an official religious group or organization. It is more worshipful of God, rather than focusing on experiencing. Organized religion usually believes in an external creator God distinct from humanity.


Now - Which category do you fall into? Maybe you dabble a little in both, if so, specify which is the most predominant for you (which interests you the most) - for example, it would be contradictory to say that you were 50-50% on both, since the two approaches are obviously poles apart. Read the definitions first and you will see this is the case!
If you state the reasons why you lean more towards one way than the other, maybe we can understand each other better.

I will start - my camp is spirituality, because I am scientific in mind, and I like to experience a spiritual reality without the need for beleif anymore - I like to be certain, not hopeful!

[rhydra]

Definitely spirituality, I don't trust anyone enough to lead me, rather make my own path and come to my own conclusions. I don't want to follow, lead, be a part of a herd or make any sacrifice, real or symbolic.

[stfd]

"Spirituality is based on direct and personal experiences of dimensions of reality or higher states of consciousness, it involves a desire to know what God and Spirit is through personal experience of that reality - and does not require any beliefs or a specific place or mediator for communication with the divine. It is a trial and error personal scientific approach to God, truth and reality.


Religion, although originating from the direct experiences of its founders, appears to have largely lost touch with the personal experience of the spiritual source, becoming instead organizations comprised of specific places of worship, defined rituals and official mediators. It requires for one to believe certain things, in order to define oneself as being a member of an official religious group or organization."

Those two definitions are flawed, incorrect and greatly musuderstood.
Even the meaning of the words 'religion' and 'spirituality' are no longer how they should be.

I would get my thoughts in order prior to posting this :)

oh and this poll is innacurate/incorrect etc etc

[skunksmash]

spirituality all the way.....:D:D

religion is far to segregated, it is the cause of all B/S globally....

spirituality is pretty much a belief in a higher consciousness overlooking us all & it incorporates ALL religions.

its far less destructive..IMO



:)SK

[merlincove]

Can we really be confined to two such confined spaces?

i agree with skunkmash, religion is far too destructive in many respects, but it does give people hope and faith.

But some people have a faith that neither fits into spirituality or religion.

i think that spirituality is much more a facet of life, a way of life than it is a belief. For me it is a core aspect of being.

i know that religion can be this too, for some, but religion kinda dictates the creed one lives by, imo.

Spirituality exists as a structure around being and allows for the freedom of expression and understanding.

Love the OP, tho i don't think that people can be so easilly defined, generally speaking :D

[manxboz]

I would say Spiritual now, i have been under the heel of Religious 'cults' for to long, now it's time to fly. No more rules, no more do's and don'ts

[reality man]

Those two definitions are flawed, incorrect and greatly musuderstood.
Even the meaning of the words 'religion' and 'spirituality' are no longer how they should be.

I would get my thoughts in order prior to posting this :)

oh and this poll is innacurate/incorrect etc etc

I guess you fall into the religion category - I thought about this afterward that many religious minded people may not want to admit that a personal inner experience of God or Spirit is no longer part of most organized religions. Spirituality involves realizing that God lives within us all, and organized religion usually believes in an external creator God - spirituality realizes "I am God" - religion calls this blasphemy - does this define it better?

[stfd]

I guess you fall into the religion category - I thought about this afterward that many religious minded people may not want to admit that a personal inner experience of God or Spirit is no longer part of most organized religions. Spirituality involves realizing that God lives within us all, and organized religion usually believes in an external creator God - spirituality realizes "I am God" - religion calls this blasphemy - does this define it better?

To say or o think that a man is God represents what is called in Orthodoxy
"the original sin".
Is the sin which brought Lucifer from the great position of light and power to becoming Satan and eternal damnation.

If that's waht you meant then why didnt you put it this way?
You should have said:

1) do you belive you are God

option

2)do you believe your NOT God

why didnt you?


You didnt but instead used the words "spirituality" and "religion" - why?
Well i think there may have been few possibilities.

1-you dont know what the MEANING of the two words is.
2-you do know what the actual meaning IS however you choose to use them in such 'manufactured' context in order to receive your desired response
3-You THINK you actually know what the meaning are and you also THINK youre right while all along being deceived into serving 'other' purposes.

Is all MY opinion of course.
Only relevant to me and myself alone.

[worlds beyond]

What I'd really like to understand, and think needs clarifying here, is how you (OP) /others define the term "Spiritual" ??

It seems many people (not necessarily on here) believe "spiritual" to mean a wide range of varying things.. from Meditation to 'elfins & fairies' to 'channellers' to 'healing' to "New- Age" type things etc.. etc..

For me, "Spiritual" means Spirit - i.e. Contact with Spirit realms and people who have passed on from this Earthly life. Also, I do feel true Spirituality is linked to the "Holy Spirit" of God ... as mentioned in various well-known religious books! So, can the two really be separated? Or has our understanding of each concept been misguided, or even falsified through eons of mans "religious" teachings/inoctrination??

Are we really understanding the terms and concepts we're being offered to label ourselves with here??

ok, the best way I can define myself is... I'm non-religious, but I believe in God/One Highest Creator. I am a strongly spiritual person, but am not "New Age".


For me, Spiritualism and Religion are totally different, yet, paradoxiacally, are closely linked somehow... a complete mess for humanity has been made in the process of trying to disconnect people from their Spirituality through the erroneous teachings of religion.

I suppose I can most simply sum up my views as this:

Religion is man-made. It disconnects us from our true selves and God, and is makes the power/gifts of "Holy Spirit" external (unavailable) to us.

Spirituality is God-made. It connects us to our true selves and God, and makes the power/gifts of "Holy Spirit" internal (available) to us.



Didn't man invent religion to separate us all from God/The Creator and our own spiritual abilities?
Wasn't this the first ever major conspiracy, committed against "the people" of this world to further the ends of those men in power?!

:)

[miracles]

True religion is helping people less fortunate than yourself, sprituality arguably is all about some one saying "IM spiritual", which is utter bollocks. Prove it!!!

[worlds beyond]

Mircales, I'm sure in some cases what you say is possibly true ... but not all cases by any stretch of imagination.

There are many many truly spiritual people who know being "spiritual" to be a verb, as in how we help & treat others and what we DO in this world/life (not how many hours spent reading or meditating etc.) and there are also many religious people across this planet who will go to Chuch/Mosque/Synagogue every week, pray every night, yet would rather cross the street than help another in need, and whose treatment of others leaves one heck of a lot to be desired.


True religion is helping people less fortunate than yourself, sprituality arguably is all about some one saying "IM spiritual", which is utter bollocks. Prove it!!!

[miracles]

Mircales, I'm sure in some cases what you say is possibly true ... but not all cases by any stretch of imagination.

There are many many truly spiritual people who know being "spiritual" to be a verb, as in how we help & treat others and what we DO in this world/life (not how many hours spent reading or meditating etc.) and there are also many religious people across this planet who will go to Chuch/Mosque/Synagogue every week, pray every night, yet would rather cross the street than help another in need, and whose treatment of others leaves one heck of a lot to be desired.

which makes the whole thread a moot point. Thank you and God bless. I notice 12 people for spiritualty and 0 for religion, see everyone thinks their spiritiual;. It's a laugh.

Dont get me wrong, I agree it's good to feed ones spirit with things that make your spirit feel good and strong, but it's not to be used to as a grandiose soap box to smask religion over the head with, which is the general premis of the OP and many others in here, just another kick the shit of religion thread by people with zero understanding of the meaning of the word. Moving on.

oooooooommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmanipatenyoooooooooomm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[reality man]

which makes the whole thread a moot point. Thank you and God bless. I notice 12 people for spiritualty and 0 for religion, see everyone thinks their spiritiual;. It's a laugh.

Dont get me wrong, I agree it's good to feed ones spirit with things that make your spirit feel good and strong, but it's not to be used to as a grandiose soap box to smask religion over the head with, which is the general premis of the OP and many others in here, just another kick the shit of religion thread by people with zero understanding of the meaning of the word. Moving on.

oooooooommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmanipatenyoooooooooomm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm


Now now miracles, i'm not trying to kick organized religion this time, i'm trying to understand where everyone is coming from, I see some posts from those who lean more towards organized religion yet they haven't voted - instead they seem to be getting upset, and I cannot see anything insulting in the definitions given - they are quite clear!

I originally sprang from a very religious background - I now see myself as more into spirituality, and yes, I am saying that I am spiritual, but so are you spiritual miracles, and so is everyone else (including the atheists). We all have spirit within us as our true nature (this has been my personal experience) ... you cannot deny this surely?
Nevertheless, the definitions are as clear as clear can be ... I would ask that people try not to add onto them terms such as "new age" etc since the definitions are quite clear - one guy has already equated me with being "lucifer" for stating the premise of spirituality that God is within us as spirit ... some WILL disagree with this, but it would be healthier to state calmly why you disagree without getting upset ... this is an attempt at understanding ... not more mud slinging.

Definitions again:
Spirituality is based on direct and personal experiences of dimensions of reality or higher states of consciousness, it involves a desire to know what God and Spirit is through personal experience of that reality - and does not require any beliefs or a specific place or mediator for communication with the divine. It is a trial and error personal scientific approach to God, truth and reality. Spirituality involves realizing that God lives within us all - spirituality wants the realization that "I am one with God"


Religion, although originating from the direct experiences of its founders, appears to have largely lost touch with the personal experience of the spiritual source, becoming instead organizations comprised of specific places of worship, defined rituals and official mediators. It requires for one to believe certain things, in order to define oneself as being a member of an official religious group or organization. It is more worshipful of God, rather than focusing on experiencing. Organized religion usually believes in an external creator God distinct from humanity.

[miracles]

Now now miracles, i'm not trying to kick organized religion this time, i'm trying to understand where everyone is coming from, I see some posts from those who lean more towards organized religion yet they haven't voted - instead they seem to be getting upset, and I cannot see anything insulting in the definitions given - they are quite clear!

I originally sprang from a very religious background - I now see myself as more into spirituality, and yes, I am saying that I am spiritual, but so are you spiritual miracles, and so is everyone else (including the atheists). We all have spirit within us as our true nature (this has been my personal experience) ... you cannot deny this surely?
Nevertheless, the definitions are as clear as clear can be ... I would ask that people try not to add onto them terms such as "new age" etc since the definitions are quite clear - one guy has already equated me with being "lucifer" for stating the premise of spirituality that God is within us as spirit ... some WILL disagree with this, but it would be healthier to state calmly why you disagree without getting upset ... this is an attempt at understanding ... not more mud slinging.

Fair enough, Point taken. I vote both.

[reality man]

Fair enough, Point taken. I vote both.


I never thought of both - I really should've put that in - I did it in a hurry, nevertheless one should be more predominant

[merlincove]

I never thought of both - I really should've put that in - I did it in a hurry

You were in a hurry?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3n3LL338aGA

:D

[miracles]

You were in a hurry?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3n3LL338aGA

:D
excellent. :D

[merlincove]

There is also a very 'holier than thou' aspect to both spirituality and religion. With both camps housing those who look down upon their kindred but much less worthy beings, which is not only sad it is also fucking annoying.....

Sprituality and religion should be in the heart, and the heart knows no judgement.

:D

[miracles]

There is also a very 'holier than thou' aspect to both spirituality and religion. With both camps housing those who look down upon their kindred but much less worthy beings, which is not only sad it is also fucking annoying.....

Sprituality and religion should be in the heart, and the heart knows no judgement.

:D
hear hear.

[reality man]

There is also a very 'holier than thou' aspect to both spirituality and religion. With both camps housing those who look down upon their kindred but much less worthy beings, which is not only sad it is also fucking annoying.....

Sprituality and religion should be in the heart, and the heart knows no judgement.

:D

I would agree with you merlin,

I have come upon many from both paths who develop the "holier than thou" attitude once they take to either religion or spirituality (I admit that at one time in my life, I was also afflicted with it). I do not tolerate bullshit anymore, no matter what angle it comes from, whether it be religion, new age so called "spirituality" or any contradictory system of thought. I like what is provable - either scientifically (by scientific experimentation) or personally (within ones own personal inner experience), this is why I lean more towards Spirituality, as it has been defined in the OP.

However, when I do hear obvious bull, sometimes I find it hard to listen to it, but I do still see us all as equals, we are all spiritual beings no matter what our belief system or our personal label reads. I even see animals, trees and all life forms as equal with us, since we all derive our life energy (spirit) from the same animating life source (or God)

Therefore - In my eyes anyway, No one is better than an other!

[stfd]

sad how this suddenly turned into a 5 Star thread...
very sad.

[reality man]

sad how this suddenly turned into a 5 Star thread...
very sad.


Maybe the thread is more in line with todays feelings, surrounding the differences between organized Religion and Spirituality - and the two distinct paths/philosophies that they are. I really don't understand why you feel that this is "sad" - I find it insightful to see where the majority of people on these forums are coming from. It's curious to see how the world is changing right before our eyes.

There was a time in history when those who followed the path of Spirituality alone, and listened ONLY to thier OWN inner intuitive spiritual guidance, were tortured and burned at the stake for it - despite the fact that these people awakened to thier true inner spiritual nature or God. We call SOME of these people saints today - but by some still today, they are called heretics, blasphemers, mad men and wierdos etc.

Maybe organized religion and independent Spirituality could meet in the middle some day if certain rigid thought systems would relax a little and maybe admit that they do not hold all of the answers about the true nature of our reality. This is all Spirituality wants to discover (for sure, not just to believe) - what is wrong with that?

[miracles]

sad how this suddenly turned into a 5 Star thread...
very sad.

It only takes one voter and you can have 5 stars, if you vote aswell, it affects the outcome. (mine always start with five and very quickly drop lol)