Wells Fargo Bank in trouble - Bloomberg

[radford]

Just announced on Bloomberg that this bank is in trouble and speculation they might be this year;s LEHMAN.

This follows on the many predictions about the USA banks are in deep trouble - as is AIG.

Wells Fargo - is a very large bank.

This could be very important.

[synergy777]

we have known for mths, first it was sept 30th, then it was sept/oct which would be the correction/crash mths.

the ftse was down today, and currently, the dow is tanking.

yesterday on bloomberg they were saying that rally was overstrecthed, they even mentioned a possible world currency, calling the dollar a micky mouse currency.

[radford]

Bank of America is on a run as well Bloomberg just announced - down over 5%

Yes - Sept/Oct seems as if there is going to be alot of problems again in the financials area.

Massive amounts of Government money have only slowed the recession - and they must be close to running out of money to bail out. Yet many figures are still pointing down.

Not looking good.

[synergy777]

Bank of America is on a run as well Bloomberg just announced - down over 5%

Yes - Sept/Oct seems as if there is going to be alot of problems again in the financials area.

Massive amounts of Government money have only slowed the recession - and they must be close to running out of money to bail out. Yet many figures are still pointing down.

Not looking good.

they with their fiat money, just pumped more money into the bubble, thus when this one bursts, its going to be worse than last year.

they did this on purpose, as they have their agenda, a world currency. thus they have to devalue the dollar, by crashing america.

then they will strike at sterling, which will leave us in the uk, crying for the euro to be introduced.

currency, law, etc are all part of the one world govt/global elite. add to this religion/luciferic, its the agenda.

[worlds beyond]

Hmmm.. I believe this will be just one on a very, very long line of bank collapses... not just in US.. this is one of things I've been 'shown' since 2006 (see NDE thread if interested in background to that), I've seen clearly that the entire Western banking/money system will collapse, I mean totally, and that "China will bankrupt America", but that "it will also demise" eventually, as will every single other monetary-based system/institution.

The Stock crash and problems last Autumn were the tiniest tip of a very large iceberg. I told several friends and family of all this back in 2006 (including about the Autumn 2007 crash), but they thought I was crazy.

I've seen the whole system falling, not faltering, but visions literally, like a tower of cards, but instead pile upon pile of banks and finance buildings etc all comng crashing down one on top of another. Have also been told and shown (many times) that "Money will soon be worthless". I've been told this is no uncertain terms. I have to add, that "soon" could mean years or even longer (one thing Spirit can't/don't do is give clear dates!).

UK latest is closing C&G Building Soc, Alliance & Leicester also cutting/failing, and now Halifax getting out it's scythe.

The media hype around the "recovery" is pure fiction, in my view. There is going to be an unprecendented financial meltdown to make the 30's look like a sunny stroll in the park.

A world without money?? I truly believe this will be a positive step forward for humanity. Personally, I can't wait! :)

[radford]

they with their fiat money, just pumped more money into the bubble, thus when this one bursts, its going to be worse than last year.

they did this on purpose, as they have their agenda, a world currency. thus they have to devalue the dollar, by crashing america.

then they will strike at sterling, which will leave us in the uk, crying for the euro to be introduced.

currency, law, etc are all part of the one world govt/global elite. add to this religion/luciferic, its the agenda.

It is like watching a car crash in slow motion.

History shows us that War is usually the only way out of such a problem. Because the economy cant be saved then it is Plan B ? Certainly worked at the end of the 1930s and led to 60 years of growth.

[truthinlove]

wells fargo AND bank of america - 2 banks my strawman does business with. so what happens when the government bails them out? my commercial affairs with these institutions are now owned by the government?

does the human being have any obligation to pay THOSE fuckers, which are below us and are an illusion, back?

i certainly won't, as i am currently working on not paying my "debt".

[danster82]

Theres news out that the chinese government have given the go to certain companys that they are allowed to default on the derivative payments this could cause a possible domino effect in derivative.

[decim]

Got a link?

This could be 'the one'

Theres news out that the chinese government have given the go to certain companys that they are allowed to default on the derivative payments this could cause a possible domino effect in derivative.

[clint_giles]

great my truck loan is with this bank


this must mean i do not have to pay.........:confused:

[truthinlove]

what is a derivative payment?

[dolores1]

Joshia and the battle of Jerico?

Quess just who blew the trumpet?

Cause the walls are tumbling down.

[the nine]

Joshia and the battle of Jerico?

Quess just who blew the trumpet?

Cause the walls are tumbling down.

Err, those dastardly khazzars 'de rothschildes' ?

[motleyhoo]

It is like watching a car crash in slow motion.

History shows us that War is usually the only way out of such a problem. Because the economy cant be saved then it is Plan B ? Certainly worked at the end of the 1930s and led to 60 years of growth.

And a major war to deflect attention away from the dismal economy and fraudulent financial systems is exactly what Gerald Celente is now predicting. The man has not been wrong yet.

The people will not mind the govt and federal reserve printing trillions out of thin air to bailout their buddies at taxpayer expense if there's a trumped up bogeyman to defeat. History has shown us this dozens of times.

.

[decim]

Enron & missing pentagon trillions triggered 911, so what is in store for us after/during/now is likely to make 911 look like a sideshow.

[prodigy_x]

I have been really watching this the last few months.....I have a few bucks in the bank and I'm not sure what I should do at this point. should I pull everything out and invest in gold/silver? I actually met with my financial advisor last week and he sounded like everything was rough in 2008 and that we're "hunky dory" now. Obviously, I know better - I just wanted to see what his "advice" and perspective was on this. when i asked him about avenues in which I could invest into precious metals he had no clue how to go about doing this. He's a nice guy, but doesn't that seem a little odd?

any suggestions would be appreciated...

[fedora]

I have been really watching this the last few months.....I have a few bucks in the bank and I'm not sure what I should do at this point. should I pull everything out and invest in gold/silver?

any suggestions would be appreciated...

I am an engineer and not a financial advisor so take this for what it is worth. I have been told a diversified stock of precious metals not just gold is good and if you have been holding off on purchasing any big ticket items now would be a good time to buy them before the dollar sinks more. If worse comes to worse then you can always use these items later for bartering if the currency goes Wiemar Republic(becomes worthless) on you :-)

[ozpixie]

I might be wrong but it is my understanding that the Federal Reserve can declare any bank or business unviable and not have to follow any set rules or guidelines. This means that any declaration of the health or otherwise of an institution can be taken with a grain of salt. I do pity the depositors or shareholders though.

[motleyhoo]

I have been really watching this the last few months.....I have a few bucks in the bank and I'm not sure what I should do at this point. should I pull everything out and invest in gold/silver? I actually met with my financial advisor last week and he sounded like everything was rough in 2008 and that we're "hunky dory" now. Obviously, I know better - I just wanted to see what his "advice" and perspective was on this. when i asked him about avenues in which I could invest into precious metals he had no clue how to go about doing this. He's a nice guy, but doesn't that seem a little odd?

any suggestions would be appreciated...

Financial Advisers do not make commissions off of precious metals trades. That's why they push equities and act like they're clueless about anything else. Mine said he wasn't even allowed (by Edward Jones) to advise me on anything to do with metals, although he thought it was a good idea that I put some money in gold and silver.

.

[motleyhoo]

Got a link?

This could be 'the one'

http://www.reuters.com/article/fundsFundsNews/idUSPEK36146520090831

BEIJING, Aug 31 (Reuters) - A weekend report that Chinese state-owned companies will be allowed to default on commodity derivative contracts provoked anger and dismay among investment banks on Monday as they feared a damaging precedent.

.

[worlds beyond]

We've only seen just the tip of the looming iceberg...


http://www.fdic.gov/bank/individual/failed/banklist.html

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/savings-and-banking/bank-strength/article.html?in_article_id=453074&in_page_id=53948

http://bankimplode.com/blog/2008/01/21/62-failed-swiss-financial-institutions/

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/aug/21/chelsea-41m-mortgage-fraud


... these are just a small selection of articles from a long list.


also found this on a Financial News Blog:

QUOTE FROM ARTICLE:

Wednesday, 26 August 2009

UK retail banks struggling to return to profitability.

Optimism gets mugged in the dark alley of reality. UK banks, especially the retail ones, are still in trouble.

LONDON (Reuters) - Britain's banks are likely to see their battered retail arms slide to a loss in the second half of 2009, as the cost of bad loans, tough competition and wholesale funding continues to weigh, a survey by accountants KPMG found.

"Retail banking is only just profitable at lower levels, but with rising impairments. It seems probable that it will fall into loss making in the second half of this year," KMPG said in its UK Banks Performance Benchmarking Survey on Wednesday."

[worlds beyond]

and another failure announced today... (from BBC Business pages)



"Page last updated at 06:34 GMT, Wednesday, 2 September 2009 07:34 UK
Printable version

Threat to 510 jobs at UK lender

Cattles offers financial services to those outside the mainstream
UK sub-prime lender Cattles has said it may cut as many as 510 jobs at its Welcome Financial Services subsidiary.

The embattled firm is proposing closing 30 branches when the leases expire and reducing its sales and support teams.

As well as trading under the Welcome brand, Batley-based Cattles also owns debt recovery firm Lewis.

Cattles, hit hard by the economic downturn, appointed a new management team earlier this year and has been seeking ways to cut costs.

Cattles discovered it had an extra £700m of bad loans on its books following a review of its accounts earlier this year, which it put down to a failure of internal controls.

The company said it would now enter into a consultation process with the staff affected by the proposals, with about 510 receiving notice that they are at risk of redundancy. "


so, now it seems even Debt Recovery firms are heading down the pan (no bad thing!) !!



link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8233113.stm

[radford]

Wells Fargo just discussed on SKY NEWS ( UK ) business update with FOX NEWS business presenter.

They suggested that the bank has not paid back TARP and in the stress test was told it needed to raise capital. The two things are not compatible........

Currys/PC World have seen a 15% drop in retail sales in June - August. Which is very considerable coming on the back of awful trading in retail for the previous year.

The whole "recovery" scam - seems to be unwinding day by day. ATS Meltdown forum has a good list of links to stories about the problems facing the economy and I agree if debt companies are now getting into trouble then there are problems ahead.

and

Northern Rock Mortgage debt deteriates
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601102&sid=arU99wtmvO.s

edit

Northern Rock in the UK
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601102&sid=arU99wtmvO.s

Looks bad for the Government owned bank as well !!!

[worlds beyond]

Absolutely! When even the Debt Collection Co.s start shutting up shop, you can be sure there is NO recovery and things are a heck of a lot worse than even the financial sector's Bears are admitting to!

Also, this is an interesting list of all failed/"acquired" and Govt. Bailed UK/US/European banks etc in last few years.... this is by no means a full list (I know of several which are not listed here), and am not sure if this site kept totally up to date... but it would be really great to see this wiki page (or another web page) kept up to date so we can see the current full list for all global Bank/Building Society 'FAILS' on one chart.. that would be very interesting! Anyway, here's link....

List of acquired or bankrupt banks in the late 2000s financial crisis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[worlds beyond]

slightly different theme, but still very much of interest, listing of UK/Global Major Business Failures, by year, up to 2009.... (again, would be great if kept truly up to date/daily!).... obvious sharp increases 2008 and 2009..

List of business failures - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[el jefe]

All this talk about Wells Fargo and Bloomberg but no link? What about a link for Bloomberg talking about a world currency?

Last article I can find says Wells Fargo might have its worst behind them:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aa7bHfruDGgs

[real6]

Just announced on Bloomberg that this bank is in trouble and speculation they might be this year;s LEHMAN.

This follows on the many predictions about the USA banks are in deep trouble - as is AIG.

Wells Fargo - is a very large bank.

This could be very important.


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Same old song. It will collapse and some other bank like JP Morgan will buy it up!!!

[radford]

All this talk about Wells Fargo and Bloomberg but no link? What about a link for Bloomberg talking about a world currency?

Last article I can find says Wells Fargo might have its worst behind them:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aa7bHfruDGgs

It was LIVE ON BLOOMBERG TV - they were doing their interview from the floor and the trader that they interviewed said this was the word doing the rounds of the floor that was driving down financials.

I would give MORE credence to that man than any number of MSM journalists.

In fact the MSM have tried to say Wells Fargo is fine today - on Sky - Fox - Bloomberg etc. to try and counter what the "trading floor" was saying.

For most of us we only hear the "word on the street" AFTER it has happened.

I truly believe that Wells Fargo is in deep trouble - as are some other banks in USA and UK. The problems from last year have not gone away - the massive black holes of debt are still there - Governments cant FILL a hole that is potentially TRILLIONS and TRILLIONS of debt. That is why GORDON BROWN said the Finance Community would have to be rebuilt - but that has not happened.......so the alternative is BUST. And you can see the signs everywhere !!!

[el jefe]

what the crap^? that take 8 hours to type?

[melinda980]

I've had a bank account with Wells Fargo for about a year and a half. Thank god I haven't got any money or investments with them.

[worlds beyond]

Just this evening I watched a documentary on BBC2, "The Frankincense Trail", well, about 20 mins into the programme, they visit the richest man/Prince in Saudi Arabia, and while being filmed he makes a phone call, which the translator/journalist says was the Prince confirming his arrangement to "Bail out Citibank" ... did anyone else see/hear this??

I thought it strange.. Ive not heard anywhere previously that this man is behind propping up Citibank. The public is being told the banks are being bailed out by the huge Government schemes, which are causing crippling national debts and "forcing" cutbacks in essential services etc.. yet this Saudi Prince (apparently) single handedly saved Citibank from going under.

Thoughts anyone? Any further evidence out there?

[melinda980]

Just this evening I watched a documentary on BBC2, "The Frankincense Trail", well, about 20 mins into the programme, they visit the richest man/Prince in Saudi Arabia, and while being filmed he makes a phone call, which the translator/journalist says was the Prince confirming his arrangement to "Bail out Citibank" ... did anyone else see/hear this??

I thought it strange.. Ive not heard anywhere previously that this man is behind propping up Citibank. The public is being told the banks are being bailed out by the huge Government schemes, which are causing crippling national debts and "forcing" cutbacks in essential services etc.. yet this Saudi Prince (apparently) single handedly saved Citibank from going under.

Thoughts anyone? Any further evidence out there?


Saudi prince is looking to increase his stake in Citibank from 4% to 5% according to the link below.

http://www.boncherry.com/blog/2008/11/21/will-citigroup-get-bail-out-or-get-sold/

[anyuser]

Just this evening I watched a documentary on BBC2, "The Frankincense Trail", well, about 20 mins into the programme, they visit the richest man/Prince in Saudi Arabia, and while being filmed he makes a phone call, which the translator/journalist says was the Prince confirming his arrangement to "Bail out Citibank" ... did anyone else see/hear this??

I thought it strange.. Ive not heard anywhere previously that this man is behind propping up Citibank. The public is being told the banks are being bailed out by the huge Government schemes, which are causing crippling national debts and "forcing" cutbacks in essential services etc.. yet this Saudi Prince (apparently) single handedly saved Citibank from going under.

Thoughts anyone? Any further evidence out there?

Wow if someone knowes how to get ahold of the program, they should put it on www.thepiratebay.org & www.mininova.org . Very good information there that can be lost if more people don't know + thepiratebay.org agrees to never remove torrents that don't violate their country laws + the site is backed up by people all over the world. :D

[melinda980]

Wow if someone knowes how to get ahold of the program, they should put it on www.thepiratebay.org (http://www.thepiratebay.org) & www.mininova.org (http://www.mininova.org) . Very good information there that can be lost if more people don't know + thepiratebay.org agrees to never remove torrents that don't violate their country laws + the site is backed up by people all over the world. :D


Sorry to divert the topic, but aren't Edonkey and the piratebay being prosecuted via the courts for file sharing? I know that for the nth time that Limewire are being taken to court over this.

[worlds beyond]

ok, you can watch online at (second one in series):

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/search/?q=The%20Frankincense%20Trail

I thought it was an odd thing to say in midst of programme about ancient Frankinsence trail!!

Melinda, I'm not sure, but got impression this was MORE than 5%.. and not sure when filmed, but perhaps more recent than 2008?

[melinda980]

ok, you can watch online at (second one in series):

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/search/?q=The%20Frankincense%20Trail

I thought it was an odd thing to say in midst of programme about ancient Frankinsence trail!!

Melinda, I'm not sure, but got impression this was MORE than 5%.. and not sure when filmed, but perhaps more recent than 2008?


Sorry, no. It seems all except what is on the BBC is from November 2008, buth thanks for the link.

[worlds beyond]

Hi Melinda, I meant I wasn't sure if programme made later than 2008 :)

Anyway, this has had me thinking, how do we know what any of the Govts. used the massive Bail Out funds for, in truth??
What if none at all was paid to the banks.. instead, the banks have been propped up by the super wealthy?? What if the massive bail out budgets in UK and US were diverted elsewhere?? many possibilites... a WWIII War fund for example?? Or perhaps any of their other self serving plans??

[melinda980]

Hi Melinda, I meant I wasn't sure if programme made later than 2008 :)

Anyway, this has had me thinking, how do we know what any of the Govts. used the massive Bail Out funds for, in truth??
What if none at all was paid to the banks.. instead, the banks have been propped up by the super wealthy?? What if the massive bail out budgets in UK and US were diverted elsewhere?? many possibilites... a WWIII War fund for example?? Or perhaps any of their other self serving plans??


I lived for six years on and off in the USA on a work visa, returning to the UK in May this year, and I can tell you that the banks have been bailed out by Obama. This means that when the recession gets worse there will be nothing left to help anyone else as they've thrown all this money into banks who have and are squandering it. Major global collapse. Many anti-Obama camps are up in arms over this and lambasting this decision and during April and May this year, many radio stations were criticising Obama and saying almost exactly what David Icke was saying about this course of action and how it would put the economy in an even worse position. As for other benefactors - I don't know. Maybe there are resources to be found on the net.

[worlds beyond]

Hi Melinda,

I know what you mean, but am just still not convinced the Bail Out Trillions (US and UK) went to the banks to prop them up as intended/stated... well, not all of it for certain!

I did read somewhere that a lot of the money was used to pay off other countries with large US bonds/debt holdings or derivatives claims (sorry, not totally au fait with the terminolgy!) ??

Anyone got any tangible info to clarify any of this??

[melinda980]

Hi Melinda,

I know what you mean, but am just still not convinced the Bail Out Trillions (US and UK) went to the banks to prop them up as intended/stated... well, not all of it for certain!

I did read somewhere that a lot of the money was used to pay off other countries with large US bonds/debt holdings or derivatives claims (sorry, not totally au fait with the terminolgy!) ??

Anyone got any tangible info to clarify any of this??


Probably not all of it but I do know that he did throw an undisclosed amount at them.

[worlds beyond]

be interesting to know how much, and what they 'spent' it on!! In UK too!

[kimball13]

what the crap^? that take 8 hours to type?

if that is refering to my last post the responce was allot longer yet also very complex,,,,,,,,,,why do you ask,,,,,,,,but maybe i already know,,,,,,,,,,who knows!

maybe it did, maybe it sat on my screen all day, maybe i logged on and let it sit and then wrote it when i got home, maybe i was using anothe screen and came back to it, but maybe this is what took me eight hours and that post was computer generated, or maybe even my double wrote it a per my request.

[kimball13]

what the crap^? that take 8 hours to type?

to satisfie the obviosly edjucated on such matters i simplified the thread by removing the post i made of which the time it took to write is moot at this point the desired effect/affect was achieved,

[kimball13]

Hi Melinda, I meant I wasn't sure if programme made later than 2008 :)

Anyway, this has had me thinking, how do we know what any of the Govts. used the massive Bail Out funds for, in truth??
What if none at all was paid to the banks.. instead, the banks have been propped up by the super wealthy?? What if the massive bail out budgets in UK and US were diverted elsewhere?? many possibilites... a WWIII War fund for example?? Or perhaps any of their other self serving plans??

;)

[yozhik]

Absolutely! When even the Debt Collection Co.s start shutting up shop, you can be sure there is NO recovery and things are a heck of a lot worse than even the financial sector's Bears are admitting to!



Could also because a lot of people are waking up re: the fraud of debt and debt collection.

Seems the knowledge is going hyperbolic; more and more people are challenging debt collection instead of just rolling over to the baseless threats.

[ritchs]

they with their fiat money, just pumped more money into the bubble, thus when this one bursts, its going to be worse than last year.

they did this on purpose, as they have their agenda, a world currency. thus they have to devalue the dollar, by crashing america.

then they will strike at sterling, which will leave us in the uk, crying for the euro to be introduced.

currency, law, etc are all part of the one world govt/global elite. add to this religion/luciferic, its the agenda.

It is like watching a car crash in slow motion.

History shows us that War is usually the only way out of such a problem. Because the economy cant be saved then it is Plan B ? Certainly worked at the end of the 1930s and led to 60 years of growth.

Yes like a car crash in slow motion. Or like a Controlled Demolition, their signature modus operandi. Sadly they are still plodding forward. I myself, have serious doubts about their ability to pull it off, but no doubts about their resolve. As I look at the whole thing (all agendas) the only thing that makes any sense at all is a mass culling. There's just too many folks for them to control. Just hoping they are not going to "Go for Broke"

The economic terrorism is just a prelude. Mass vaccinations will add to the panic. Maybe a few rockets fired to increase the 'pucker factor' and an international incident. Like gunslingers in a wild west saloon, they will fire bullets into the floor and make the tinhorns dance. Yes, war is a useful distraction for the sheeps so they don't watch what the real wolves are doing.

[worlds beyond]

anyone recall seeing this article last year re: UK Bank Bailouts?

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/news/article.html?in_article_id=440824&in_page_id=2


"Bank bail-outs to be kept secret
Dan Atkinson, Simon Watkins, Mail on Sunday
27 April 2008, 8:59am

The Bank of England has imposed a permanent news blackout on its £50bn-plus plan to ease the credit crunch
Ferocious and unprecedented secrecy means taxpayers will never know the names of the banks that have been supported through the special liquidity scheme, which was unveiled by Bank Governor Mervyn King last week.
Requests under the Freedom of Information Act are to be denied. Details will be kept secret even after 30 years - the period after which all but the most sensitive state documents are released.

Any Bank of England employee leaking the names of institutions involved will face court action for breach of contract.

Even a figure for the overall amount advanced will not be published until October. Meanwhile the Bank is expected to issue at least £50bn of Treasury bills to banks in exchange for their mortgages - entirely in secret.........." (continues)



Also....

http://www.webtvhub.com/bankrupt-britain/britain-loves-banks.php

"Bankrupt Britain"
Part 2: U.K Government Destroying Britain to Help Banks

Numerous economists, businessmen and investors warn of impending U.K bankruptcy. Yet practically 100% of the U.K government supports some form of bank bailouts, drastically increasing the risk of the U.K going bust.

U.K Prime Minister, Gordon Brown, has introduced approximately £900,000,000,000 in various bank bailout schemes with the worrying prospect of even more bailouts on the horizon. This is despite growing warnings of the U.K government being unable to finance this highly expensive scheme..... (more) ..... ...... Niall Fergusen is one of a number of economists and financial commenter's that predict the British government is pushing the U.K into bankruptcy and/or refute funding bank bailouts. This includes:

Robert Pretcher (January 2009, Elliot Wave forecast)
Nadeem Walayat
Jim Rogers
Dan Atkinson
Ambrose Evans-Pritchard
Philip Delves Broughton
Mike Shedlock
James Ferguson
Luke Johnson
Adrian Ash
John Stepek
Grant Thornton
and many more... .... " (article continues)



It's not only the US that's hiding where they really put the money, nor the only ones covering up fact they are actually bankrupt.

This can of worms is yet to explode in their faces, when their lies and schemes can no longer sustain their cover ... the truth will be exposed.. and we'll all see just how deep and wide this whole mess goes ... as my old boss used to say.. "you ain't seen nothing yet!"

[kimball13]

here is a link to a site i take a gander at sometimes and gues what they have an economic espionage part of there site,,,,,,probley allot of goodys.
as well as a look at a bit of a bigger picture of how we all are being set like attack dogs at one another.

http://cicentre.com/news/economic_espionage.html

[worlds beyond]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8237524.stm

"Are shares about to fall off a cliff?
At the end of each month, BBC World business presenter Jamie Robertson takes a look at the world's major stock markets. This month he considers whether the beginning of the end of government stimulus plans could spell bad times for the markets.............. But there is a problem that lies at the heart of this six-month rally.

The profits that spurred the optimism have come from cost-cutting, cuts in the labour force, restocking of inventories and some subsidised buying, such as car scrappage schemes.

The bitter truth is that none of these are sustainable...... "

[yozhik]

But there is a problem that lies at the heart of this six-month rally.

The profits that spurred the optimism have come from cost-cutting, cuts in the labour force, restocking of inventories and some subsidised buying, such as car scrappage schemes.

The bitter truth is that none of these are sustainable...... "

Exactly.
It isn't retail based.
The customer sector is diminishing ... less of them, [unemployment] earning less money [renegotiated contracts, work for no pay], to spend on less products and services.

Look at B.A for example - they asked their staff to work for no pay.
Great for B.A profits; devastating on the disposable income the staff had to spend "in the market".

It's financial autocannibalism.

[worlds beyond]

"Financial stability depends on more capital"

By Timothy Geithner

Published: September 3 2009 20:00 | Last updated: September 3 2009 20:00

A year ago, deep concerns about excessive leverage almost brought down the global financial system. The resulting panic severely damaged economies across the world and wiped out trillions of dollars in savings. Since at least the Great Depression, governments have recognised that financial breakdowns have devastating effects, and have put in place safety nets to limit the fall-out from instability............."

(free registration to read whole article)

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/638b9eb2-98ba-11de-aa1b-00144feabdc0,Authorised=false.html?_i_location=htt p%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcms%2Fs%2F0%2F638b9eb2-98ba-11de-aa1b-00144feabdc0.html%3Fnclick_check%3D1&_i_referer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fhome%2Fuk&nclick_check=1



So... am wondering.... are they preparing to plough even MORE in to prop up the financial system?? As evidently, the money thrown at the banks and markets so far has 'mysteriously' not had the desired effect!

[motleyhoo]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8237524.stm

"Are shares about to fall off a cliff?
At the end of each month, BBC World business presenter Jamie Robertson takes a look at the world's major stock markets. This month he considers whether the beginning of the end of government stimulus plans could spell bad times for the markets.............. But there is a problem that lies at the heart of this six-month rally.

The profits that spurred the optimism have come from cost-cutting, cuts in the labour force, restocking of inventories and some subsidised buying, such as car scrappage schemes.

The bitter truth is that none of these are sustainable...... "

You also have to look at where the money going into the market is coming from, and it is NOT coming from traditional investment. Most of it is coming from TARP funds, while people actually on the inside (CEOs and executives) have been selling shares left and right (because they know the fundamentals for a true rally are not there).

.

[worlds beyond]

surprise surprise! (err... not!)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8242876.stm

"We'll have to cut costs - Darling

Mr Darling says the government faces a "test of character"
The government will have to start "cutting costs" as it deals with the effects of the recession, Chancellor Alistair Darling is expected to say.

He will tell business leaders that ministers will "not flinch" from a series of "hard choices" over spending. ...... ..... " (continues)

No prizes for gusssing where they'll make the cuts (.. hint.. will NOT be military spend / Defence budget).

[worlds beyond]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/6146957/China-alarmed-by-US-money-printing.html

"
China alarmed by US money printing
The US Federal Reserve's policy of printing money to buy Treasury debt threatens to set off a serious decline of the dollar and compel China to redesign its foreign reserve policy, according to a top member of the Communist hierarchy.

By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard, in Cernobbio, Italy
Published: 9:06PM BST 06 Sep 2009

Working for the Yankee dollar: Beijing is said to be dismayed by the Fed's recourse to 'credit easing'.

Photo: Reuters

Cheng Siwei, former vice-chairman of the Standing Committee and now head of China's green energy drive, said Beijing was dismayed by the Fed's recourse to "credit easing".

"We hope there will be a change in monetary policy as soon as they have positive growth again," he said at the Ambrosetti Workshop, a policy gathering on Lake Como.

China's 'Beijing Put' on the gold price "If they keep printing money to buy bonds it will lead to inflation, and after a year or two the dollar will fall hard.

Most of our foreign reserves are in US bonds and this is very difficult to change, so we will diversify incremental reserves into euros, yen, and other currencies," he said.

China's reserves are more than – $2 trillion, the world's largest.

"Gold is definitely an alternative, but when we buy, the price goes up. We have to do it carefully so as not to stimulate the markets," he added.

The comments suggest that China has become the driving force in the gold market and can be counted on to buy whenever there is a price dip, putting a floor under any correction.

Mr Cheng said the Fed's loose monetary policy was stoking an unstable asset boom in China. "If we raise interest rates, we will be flooded with hot money. We have to wait for them. If they raise, we raise.

"Credit in China is too loose. We have a bubble in the housing market and in stocks so we have to be very careful, because this could fall down."

Mr Cheng said China had learned from the West that it is a mistake for central banks to target retail price inflation and take their eye off assets.

"This is where Greenspan went wrong from 2000 to 2004," he said. "He thought everything was alright because inflation was low, but assets absorbed the liquidity."

Mr Cheng said China had lost 20m jobs as a result of the crisis and advised the West not to over-estimate the role that his country can play in global recovery.

China's task is to switch from export dependency to internal consumption, but that requires a "change in the ideology of the Chinese people" to discourage excess saving. "This is very difficult".

Mr Cheng said the root cause of global imbalances is spending patterns in US (and UK) and China.

"The US spends tomorrow's money today," he said. "We Chinese spend today's money tomorrow. That's why we have this financial crisis."

Yet the consequences are not symmetric.

"He who goes borrowing, goes sorrowing," said Mr Cheng.

It was a quote from US founding father Benjamin Franklin."
"

[bowtiedaddy]

Ah...so there's another market that will be seing "Bank Better with Chase" billboards, radio ads, product placement and storefront branches on every other street corner. Yay.


Gee, I wonder who is getting the bailout money?! :D Who the hell owns Chase bank, anyway? :D

[worlds beyond]

"China to issue renminbi bonds to offshore investors
By Robert Cookson in Hong Kong

Published: September 8 2009 07:31 | Last updated: September 8 2009 10:13

China will issue sovereign bonds denominated in its own currency to offshore investors for the first time this month – a crucial step towards making the renminbi a global currency.

The country’s finance ministry said it would issue Rmb6bn ($879m) of bonds in Hong Kong on September 28, in a move to “improve the international status” of the currency and to help mainland companies raise funds in the offshore bond market.................."

more at:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/5683a16e-9c3f-11de-ab58-00144feabdc0,Authorised=false.html?_i_location=htt p%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcms%2Fs%2F0%2F5683a16e-9c3f-11de-ab58-00144feabdc0.html%3Fnclick_check%3D1&_i_referer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fworld%2Fasiap acific&nclick_check=1

[worlds beyond]

"Dollar slumps to 11-month low
By Peter Garnham

Published: September 8 2009 10:58 | Last updated: September 8 2009 10:58

The dollar fell to its lowest level in almost a year on Tuesday as a rally in gold prices above $1,000 an ounce and fresh concerns over its reserve status weighed on the US currency.

Analysts said the dollar was also suffering given the improvement in investor sentiment following a raft of recent data from across the world that suggested the global economy was recovering............."

from:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/07c0bc30-9c56-11de-ab58-00144feabdc0,Authorised=false.html?_i_location=htt p%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcms%2Fs%2F0%2F07c0bc30-9c56-11de-ab58-00144feabdc0.html%3Fnclick_check%3D1&_i_referer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fmarkets&nclick_check=1

[bowtiedaddy]

Eh. It's all doomed. I wish I had more gold, so I wasn't so vulnerable when the shakey foundation gives way.

[kimball13]

wells fargo and the like do nt deserve any more anything accept prison for ceo's and such.

they are not getting mone fraudjuelently,,,,,,,,,as in stealing from many customers,,,,i cant be the only one.

i am getting on average a fraudulent charge or overdraft a weak or even more,,,,,,,,,,,,even after changing acounts and such it still happens without skipping a beet so it is in the bank not some scammer.

or everyone else got cauht up in htere attacks on me, ya know like a fake serial killing to hide the real reason for the attack on one person,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,oh include herts rentacar to while your at it,,,,,,,,,,,the most recent finacial attack on my was multi pronged just like in most attacks against me,,,,,,,,,,,ive dealt with most of there foot soldiers not its the coporations themselves,,,,,,,,this last one was a comblo between herts, an insurance company, and wells fargo,,,,,,,,,,,,allot problem soultion type stuff, but there solutions neverare solutions so they get but hurt because they know i know so,,,,,,,,,ya im going to accept 2,500 for a car worth 4,500 easely, heck they didnt even include other reparations in the settlement,,,,,,,,,,,but there you have it even in an accident from a mistake on there part and the insurance takes an oppurtunitye especialy seeing the name of t he person that hit me(to many coincedences),,,,,,so you see the knew my situation and tried to make me take over a 4,000 loss when all said and done,,,,,,and why well that 2500 would have coverd bills caused by Wells fargo and such, and maybe an non-running clunker,,,,,,,but then i dont panic especialy when its about money or ammo i just go into solution finding without ending up homelss or dead.


Now some more honesty,,,,,,what if a real life king unbeknownst to him or most others does not know his heritage,,,,,,,,,,yet he is part of a special team of millitary,,,,,,,,he in particular is part of a unit that also go around finding old MK-Ultra victims and de-program them in the millitary, usualy they find them in there larger group in which the unit is,,,,,,,,,,,im talking DElta here,,,,,,:eek: take a look at Beckwith and you are looking at a very close resemblence to myself, im better looking and smarter though, i starte a year before Delta did which would be 1976, little did anyone know at the time where i would end up, and then there is the reason well Delta as in Delta programing, so those first ones neaded to be deprogramed and i was doing my job well up until somalia, and instead of removing the programed ones they were still sent out,,,,,,,,that was a setup,,,,,,,and i was the intended target as well as most of the programed sent there,,,,,,,,by taking them out provided them a coverup, and me would have sealed it, but it would have also helped the pretender queen of england because then the only one that could take the crown from her would have died without anyone knowing,,,,,,,,,,,instead of rewriting allot of details im going to just say ive solved most of the mystery that has plagued me since oct93 and why or did i just astro project to africal then and find out what was realy going on,,,,,,,,but no i think not that much i know is the mission i was aslked to go on as a little boy,,,,,,,,,i was made into a failsafe for those types of programs.

just a few facts,,,,,,,The masons, Beckwith, classified programs/projects and info, skills, hand to hand, etc,,,,,,,,,includeing social influence,,,,,,,,,,,,allot of this i knew even more than what has been recently declasified so i have to consider the validity of it even though the things in my head a spotty, its like getting only a glimpse or small portion of a picture. But the clincher was looking at a simple picture of a man that died shortly after mogadishu,,,,,,,i think it was becaus of a death he heard about,,,,,,yet im still alive,,,ya he knew and supported the deprograming efforts and such,,,,,,,you see at the same time of his group there were to others, one was blue light which had dirrect funding and every thing they neaded, were as his had to make due and stuggle and still was in the forefront,,,,,,,,,screw it im not giving anymore details for now,,,,,,,,,,maybe i should have just sold out and wrote a book or something and strung everyone along and got rich,,,,,but instead i stuck with the mission not because of any other reasn but its the right thing to do no matter what, that and i could not live with myself knowing that is was stil going on,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,but now instead ofthe goverment doing it its corps like wells fargo and such,,,,,,,,how it works is they get a beed on a victim and scoop them up and do a few changes and then use them, almost like buying a used car just its a mk-ultra,,all they need is the file on them for the programing keys,,,,,,,,,they made a big mistake when they tried to get me,,,,,,,,,my keys are not for sale, just like the man said to me as a boy,,,,,,,,you will be differnt than the rest,,,,,,,,,and i knew the hardships ahead............So it us or corporations,,,,,,,,,those corps are not even real people they are just illusions taking the place of God, take a look and you will see wht they fear and are doing,,,,,,,,,,,,,,i was called Rhino at 5 years old,,,,,,,,ya im either the only rhino or someoen else was given similar programing(his name is jose pedila) or maybe allot of those others are just smoke screens to dicredit the real one if he ever came forward,,,,,,,,,well im here,,,,,,,and because of an ability to remain unbiased when looking at information i see how my experience and story matches up and is more believable than most if not all of theres,,,,,,,accept maybe Candy Obriens,,,,,,,,,,,oh ya and what they did in 93 was replace me with a programer to act like he was me doing what i do and in the meen time set me up to look as if im a programer, ya know bait and switch

[worlds beyond]

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=15126

A long but very interesting article.. here's a snippet...

"Derivatives Collapse and the China Gold and Silver Markets


by Bob Chapman

Global Research, September 10, 2009
The International Forecaster

In 2009, China opened up various exchanges for investment in both gold and silver to the Chinese public, which previously was not allowed to invest in gold and silver. The opening of silver exchanges to the Chinese public is the most recent development and was accompanied by a ban on silver exports. The Chinese government is actively touting both gold and silver as an investment to the Chinese public, and with good reason. The yuan, like the dollar and virtually all other paper currencies, with the exception of the euro, are one hundred percent fiat currencies backed by absolutely nothing but government promises which aren't worth the powder to blow them to hell. Even the euro's gold backing is pathetic at best. Initially it was a respectable 15%, but the backing is probably now about half of that due to Washington Agreement gold sales and surreptitious gold leasing.

The Chinese government knows that if they do not allow the public to protect their new wealth with gold and silver, a decline in the yuan due to hyperinflation caused by massive government stimulus and an ongoing bailout and subsidization of mass failure in their banking and corporate sectors due to declining exports and trillions of dollars worth of spurious loans undergoing increasing rates of default, loans which often were given to Chinese communist party members, could very well lead to revolution. Chinese government officials are now attempting to protect themselves by dumping large portions of their dollar denominated reserves for gold and silver, as well as for commodities such as copper and oil, and they want the Chinese public to be able to do the same with gold and silver, for maximum possible protection - and, more importantly, for avoidance of revolution. We believe that the Chinese government has acted far too late, but it's better than doing nothing. We also applaud their attempt to protect the wealth of their people, even though it is self-serving.

On the other hand, our Shadow Government, which runs our official government, is doing precisely the opposite, discouraging the US public from owning gold and silver. This contrary position of our Shadow Government, which is run by the Puppet Masters who pull the marionette strings attached to Obama & Company, and to our totally bogus Congress, who collectively now sport the lowest approval ratings in American history, is due mainly to two factors. First, they lack the ancient wisdom of the Chinese acquired over several millennia. Chinese survival skills are far better than those of our illustrious Illuminists. And second, the Puppet Masters are actively seeking to destroy the US middle class to pave the way for a one world Orwellian police state of feudality. Remember, a strong and vibrant US is the main obstacle to world government. Our evil Shadow Government would do well to follow the Chinese example, but they won't. Apparently, the sound of a guillotine, or of a trap door opening, fascinates them.

Now, suddenly, we hear that China is considering walking away from responsibility on certain OTC derivative contracts held by foreign banks as counterparties, which contracts cover various commodities, in the event that those contracts result in losses to their sovereign wealth funds. You may recall from prior discussions in the IF that these unlisted OTC derivative contracts include massive short positions in both gold and silver, but especially in silver, and are used to back the listed COMEX short positions of the large commercials in both gold and silver. In other words, the CFTC is allowing COMEX commercials to justify their ludicrously concentrated short positions in both gold and silver by backing those positions with contracts about which the CFTC has no direct knowledge, over which they have no regulatory authority thanks to the Commodity Futures Modernization Act, and which the CFTC knows are backed by foreign governments outside the jurisdiction of the US who can renege on those contracts with impunity!!! How's that for reckless regulation of commodities by the CFTC?! And now everyone's worst fears are about to be realized as China announces its intention to renege!!! ......................"

[radford]

Thanks for that Worlds Beyond.

It seems strange that Geithner wants to reduce the "life support" whereas the Bank of England is committed to keeping going wits h Quantitive Easing - yet the derivatives bubble threatens.

[motleyhoo]

You cannot trust anything Geithner says or does. That guy is a snake in a fancy suit. he has yet to own up to his part in the downfall of our economy, and the people who should be holding him accountable are the ones who keep promoting him. That's how cronyism works, thru symbiotic relationships.

.

[the white knight]

This is a good read but long.

http://www.real-debt-elimination.com/real_money/crimes_of_the_economy/global_economic_criminals.htm

[worlds beyond]

"Dollar hits fresh one-year low
By Peter Garnham

Published: September 11 2009 10:41 | Last updated: September 11 2009 10:41

The dollar fell to a fresh one-year low on a trade-weighted basis on Friday after stronger-than-expected Chinese data added to global recovery hopes.

This boosted risk appetite and stemmed haven demand for the US currency, prompting investors to abandon the relative safety of the dollar in search of higher returns elsewhere...."

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/7f0514d8-9eb0-11de-8013-00144feabdc0,Authorised=false.html?_i_location=htt p%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcms%2Fs%2F0%2F7f0514d8-9eb0-11de-8013-00144feabdc0.html%3Fnclick_check%3D1&_i_referer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fmarkets&nclick_check=1

[worlds beyond]

"China’s economic recovery gains pace
By Geoff Dyer in Beijing and Justine Lau in Hong Kong

Published: September 11 2009 05:34 | Last updated: September 11 2009 09:24

China’s economy showed new signs on Friday that its recovery was gathering pace with the announcement that investment, industrial output and credit all expanded more rapidly in August.

The increases in output and investment were both ahead of analysts’ forecasts and followed a series of figures in July that suggested the recovery might be weakening. The one exception was on the trade front, where the decline in exports and imports compared with the year before was sharper than expected......"

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0d8b710e-9e8c-11de-b0aa-00144feabdc0,Authorised=false.html?_i_location=htt p%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcms%2Fs%2F0%2F0d8b710e-9e8c-11de-b0aa-00144feabdc0.html%3Fnclick_check%3D1&_i_referer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fhome%2Fuk&nclick_check=1


"US poverty rate jumps to 11-year high
By Alan Rappeport in New York

Published: September 10 2009 16:57 | Last updated: September 10 2009 16:57

The worst recession in the last 50 years lifted the rate of poverty in the US to the highest level since 1997 last year and left even more people without health insurance, the commerce department said on Thursday.

The US poverty rate jumped from 12.5 per cent in 2007 to 13.2 per cent last year, with 39.8m people in poverty. Poverty is defined as an individual with an annual income of less than $11,200 or a family of four earning less than $22,200...."

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/ce58584c-9e1f-11de-b0aa-00144feabdc0,Authorised=false.html?_i_location=htt p%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcms%2Fs%2F0%2Fce58584c-9e1f-11de-b0aa-00144feabdc0.html%3Fnclick_check%3D1&_i_referer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fworld%2Fus&nclick_check=1



"Consultants forecast fall in house prices
By Daniel Thomas, Property Correspondent

Published: September 10 2009 23:44 | Last updated: September 10 2009 23:44

House prices are forecast to suffer a significant fall over the next 18 months as an “irrational” rally ends, according to a report on Friday from a leading property consultancy.

Housing analysts are increasingly predicting the likelihood of a W-shaped cycle where the house price bounce tails off and falls back in 2010 before recovering again in 2012....."

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/13b056c0-9e1f-11de-b0aa-00144feabdc0,Authorised=false.html?_i_location=htt p%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcms%2Fs%2F0%2F13b056c0-9e1f-11de-b0aa-00144feabdc0.html%3Fnclick_check%3D1&_i_referer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fworld%2Fuk%2F economy&nclick_check=1

Auctions point to falls in house prices
A recent recovery in the housing market is likely to have been built on unstable foundations, economists claim, after a fall in demand and prices at property auctions - Sep-09

[worlds beyond]

"Page last updated at 23:15 GMT, Thursday, 10 September 2009 00:15 UK


Crisis 'cost us $10,000 each'

By Steve Schifferes
Economics reporter, BBC news



The world's largest economies have spent $10,000 for every person in a bid to fix the financial meltdown of the past year.

New calculations by the BBC, based on IMF data given to G20 finance ministers, shows these countries have spent a total of $10 trillion (£6tn).

The UK and US spent the most, with the UK spending far more, 94% of its GDP compared to 25% in the US.

That equates to £30,000 per person in the UK and $10,000 in the US.

Of course, most of this bail-out money was in the form of guarantees to the banking system, and as that system pulls out of the crisis, governments stand to recover most but not all of that money.

However, there are several other ways to measure the severity of the crisis which has led to the world falling into recession for the first time in 60 years.

They all show the extent of the damage and illustrate the point that the damage has been most severe for the rich countries - especially the US and the UK with their large financial sectors - who were at the heart of the crisis.

Private write offs

The private financial sector is estimated to have write-offs amounting to $4tn, of which two-thirds are losses suffered by the big international banks such as Citigroup or RBS.

And although about half of these losses ($1.8tn) are write-offs of securities backed by sub-prime mortgages, the damage caused by the crisis has spread much wider to other banking assets, with big write-offs of commercial mortgages and company loans as well.

These big write-offs, which have wiped out about 10 years of banking sector profits, have also made it hard for the banks to rebuild capital in order to give themselves the security to resume lending.

Many experts think it will take years, if not decades, before lending returns to pre-crisis levels, and reduced lending was one of the key causes of the economic slowdown, along with a massive collapse of confidence in financial markets.

World economy shrinks

The world economy is projected to shrink by 2.3% this year, or nearly $1tn, a loss of output shared by all citizens, but particularly affecting the rising numbers of the unemployed.

If you take into account the fact that the world economy normally grows by more than 2% per year, then the loss of output caused by the recession is almost $2tn - although some of that may be made up in future years.

However, in order to try to boost growth, governments have borrowed billions of dollars in stimulus funds.

Over the next five years, UK government debt is expected to rise from £600bn to £1.4tn, while the US national debt could double to $10tn.

This extra government debt will have to be paid by future taxpayers, whose ability to spend money on government services like health and education will be constrained. The interest on the UK government's debt in 2014 could be bigger than its entire education budget.

Wealth effect

Finally, individuals are also feeling less wealthy as a result of the drop in the value of their assets. Not only are their homes worth less, but their financial assets, such as stocks and shares, have also declined in value in the last 12 months.

The BBC, in conjunction with the Halifax, estimates that in the UK national wealth held by individuals has dropped by £815bn in the past year (comparing end 2007 with end 2008), with a 15% drop in the value of people's homes and a 9% drop in the value of their other financial assets. These figures do subtract the value of debts, such as mortgages, from the overall valuation.

Of course, wealth is distributed very unevenly, and those who are not homeowners and do not have a pension will not be feeling the effects as much - unless they are finding it hard to get a job.

But there is no doubt that it is curbing people's overall spending plans, and thus exacerbating the recession (the so-called "wealth effect").

It may be some time before we return to an era where people were borrowing against the notional value of the increase in the value of their home to buy holidays and big-screen televisions.

And, as these figures make clear, we will all be paying the price of the collapse of Lehman Brothers for some time to come.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8248434.stm




"China’s recovery starts to accelerate
By Geoff Dyer in Beijing and Jamil Anderlini in Dalian

Published: September 11 2009 05:34 | Last updated: September 11 2009 19:46

China’s economy showed fresh signs on Friday that its recovery was gathering pace, with data showing that investment, industrial output and credit all expanded more rapidly in August, although the government still believes it is too soon to begin tightening policy.

Increases in output and investment both beat analysts’ forecasts and followed a series of figures in July that suggested the recovery might be weakening. The one exception was on the trade front, where the decline in exports and imports compared with the year before was sharper than expected......"

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0d8b710e-9e8c-11de-b0aa-00144feabdc0,Authorised=false.html?_i_location=htt p%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcms%2Fs%2F0%2F0d8b710e-9e8c-11de-b0aa-00144feabdc0.html%3Fnclick_check%3D1&_i_referer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fmarkets&nclick_check=1



Standard Bank borrows $1bn from Chinese banks
Published: September 11 2009 15:48 | Last updated: September 11 2009 15:48

One of South Africa’s biggest financial institutions is borrowing $1bn from a group of Chinese banks, in a move which reflects the scarcity of credit in traditional capital markets and growing links between South Africa and the bigger emerging economies.

Standard Bank, which sold 20 per cent of its equity to Industrial and Commercial Bank of China two years ago, said it was the first time that it had tapped the Asian market. “There is absolutely no way we could raise this kind of money from western banks,” said Jacko Maree, Standard Bank’s chief executive. “You could not do it at any price.”

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/04bc00aa-9eca-11de-8013-00144feabdc0,dwp_uuid=9c33700c-4c86-11da-89df-0000779e2340,Authorised=false.html?_i_location=htt p%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcms%2Fs%2F0%2F04bc00aa-9eca-11de-8013-00144feabdc0%2Cdwp_uuid%3D9c33700c-4c86-11da-89df-0000779e2340.html%3Fnclick_check%3D1&_i_referer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fworld%2Fasiap acific%2Fchina&nclick_check=1

[kimball13]

i havent followed the finanacial news on wells fargo because ive been to bussy with an average of 2-3 fraujulent charge that takes me at minimum 4-5 phone calls and several trips to hte branch on just one claim,,,,,,,they have kept me running around so much its insane and criminal,,,,,,,,,but because i dont give them a good explanation for it they tell me it cant be happening,,,,,,then i show the charges and such and they have to deal with it,,,,,,,,,,not thta i live in Monsanto housing,,,,,not that this town is owned by big Corporations such as these or influenced by the pretender queen.
not that the city counsil used to buy drugs from meximafia or anything,,,,,,,,,according to sources,,,,,,,,or my uncles unafiliated association,,,,,,,,,,oh its deap for me,,,,,or what he did,,,,,,what caused tension,,,,,,,,how they used the mexi's, me, and the locals to play there little sick game,,,,,,,or not that the marine corps recruitment centers were giving drugs to female recruits and telling them they have to have sex to join,,,,,,,,,,,what im saying is it got so blatant here it was so out iin the open that most went into denile or sorts.

So thank God for sticking it to Wells fargo.....that bank has proven that they are nothing more than a mafioso gone very bad group,,,The local police officers are more humble and helping as well as less accusatory,,,,,,,,,,,,,i remember when the police acted untouchable and such, but now its the wells fargo bank here in town,,,,they actualy act like they are law and policy setters, like they have more power than banking or somethng,,,,,,,,but hay if Wells is getting in the local community takeover and such like military operation the maybe they realy are an invadeing force,,,,,,,,,after all these corporatoins may have to take a country over and use it as muscle at some point,,,,,,,,so lets wait and see how arrogant this bank gets.

To bad wells fargo,,,,im getting acheck from and auto accident last mnth and its not going there, but i might go in and get a money order, certified check and such just to see how a couple of those in the branch that have way oversteppe boundrys,,,,,,,as well as act as if they know the law,,,,,,heck one even threatend me, oh my god i could go on,,,,,,,but hay i have the right to defend myself so maybe next time i will just handle it instead of takinganther chance. But then thats there game get ya on a charge and tehy own ya,,,,,,oh ya,,,,,,and then the sog group that got into the snitch, tell on three go free type crap,,,,,sellouts, traitors, and because mwa wsa the only one not doing illegal drugs when suspicion was coming at them they all pointed at me,,,,,,,but i was the only one not getting tore up,,,,,,,but with backing like the Pretender Queen and wells fargo as well as at minimum of 4 accusing me,,,,,,,,,ya an entire group's word against mine, so as honor and duty calls for falsly at times take one for the team crap, but i realy had no choice but oh well im basilcy proving my innocents now as well as watch karma get the back.:rolleyes:

i wonder can i put up names if its true,,,,,maybe i shouldnt but it is tempting. na maybe let Karma take care of there PR.