Council Tax .. We’re Fighting Back – CASE 1 [Archive]

alternative_answer

01-09-2009, 10:27 AM

COUNCIL TAX IS UNLAWFUL!

I am now going to recount how my wife and I have taken on Horsham District Council and their UNLAWFUL council tax!

If you want to hear what went on in the court that day then please download this ZIP file with the Audio Recordings – there are TWO recordings:-

ONE – the interview with the Council beforehand (A Trick they use to try and get you to admit liability)
TWO – the actual hearing before the magistrate
http://www.nocounciltax.com/

merlincove

01-09-2009, 10:37 AM

Nice one AA :D

Any chance you can furnish a transcript or a youtube link so people who don't have the ability to D/L can get a heads up too?

Well done mate :D

Respect to you

tien an

01-09-2009, 11:24 AM

Gripping stuff!

(I've got sweaty palms...)

Well done aa; thank you very much for posting that.

Looking forward to updates.

tian an.

tom bombadil

01-09-2009, 11:38 AM

Keep it up alternative_answer.

I have been having thoughts on these issues too and am heading in the direction of ''what is property?'' in law?

See this... http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Property

I was listening to a chap on tape the other day and he touched on how the meaning of the word property is not what we think it is in law (or statute rather!). When I find the title I will pass it to you all. But I got it from here.... http://tpuc.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=406 I think! But definately from somewhere here.... http://www.reddit.com/r/CommonLaw/comments/76rbx/common_law_videos_seminars/ from Bill Thornton....i think!!! :confused::rolleyes:

Not entirely helpfull I know, but it could lead somewhere in the long term.

Nelly the not too helpfull...

brainfreeze

01-09-2009, 11:46 AM

I've not downloaded anything yet, but well done you.

I got demands to pay a years council tax in advance, which I refused to do. Instead I paid up to the date I am contacted to in my rental lease. Still they demanded a years payment and said they would reimburse me when I moved. I told them to get stuffed, I'm not contracted here for longer and if they're not prepared to reimburse me plus interest they can take me to court if they insist. I've not heard a word back.

So I'm keen to find out how to get out of paying what they insist on stealing from me.

signalnorth

01-09-2009, 12:12 PM

An amazing performance in court by that man.

It seems the Magistrate lied in court too about her lack of a need of her to take an oath.

I urge everyone to listen to this recording

captaincaper

01-09-2009, 12:26 PM

Just d/led good stuff keep up the good work :)

vienna

01-09-2009, 04:09 PM

great stuff - and some nice sharp retorts you had there to avoid contracting through giving your name and address

I notice they also didn't answer your concern about the clerk telling you a transcipt was available

it's bascially a sausage factory you respond how they need you to so they can usher you through the system at the next stage - anything that doesn't fit cannot be processed in their minds

how did you get the recording device through security?

danster82

01-09-2009, 05:44 PM

how did you get the recording device through security?

why would you not be allowed recording devices in court? It should be a totaly open affair I cant see any possible argument a court can have for you not being allowed a recording device and if they refuse then oh well you cant enter court... what then

hollo

01-09-2009, 05:47 PM

this is amazing - good luck :)

freedom from within

01-09-2009, 07:03 PM

alternative_answer absolutely brilliant stuff how you kept your cool and handled the magistrate.

The magistrate says she is not under oath unbelievable :eek:

alternative_answer

01-09-2009, 09:30 PM

I need to make this totally clear, that this was not me personally, but a friend of mine who I had a meeting with today. www.raymondstclair.com council tax IS officially unenforcable and every council in the UK is in breach.

dolores1

02-09-2009, 01:52 AM

Bloody Brilliant.

Thanks

alternative_answer

02-09-2009, 10:26 PM

This is it, here is the evidence. Pass it on to all and sundry far and wide.
http://www.freedomrebels.co.uk/members/profile/1/blog-view/blog_4.htm

number_6

03-09-2009, 12:04 AM

adzboarder

03-09-2009, 12:31 AM

Wow this is fantastic - GAME ON!

I am now going to save £1300 a year...

redpill41

03-09-2009, 12:32 AM

loved it and very enlightening .What is our bill of rights or constitution? where is it?!!:)

adzboarder

03-09-2009, 12:56 AM

That audio is something else, what a rush!! You could taste the atmosphere as the court people fluster and blub their way through it. You really need to stand your ground, they are truly like snakes.

3 cheers for the Freeman movement!! :) :D

resistance

03-09-2009, 12:20 PM

That's excellent, things are getting interesting, I may go down the same road, but I don't feel confident enough yet to not drop myself in it, in court:(:o I will certainly be excercising my rights if they mandate vaccines though.

alternative_answer

03-09-2009, 01:28 PM

The momentum has began moving forward now and we must continue to do so, we can only do this in numbers and it is now important to spread the word as far and wide as possible. Text everyone on your phone, e-mail all your contacts and ask them to do the same.

lewi

03-09-2009, 02:36 PM

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/44/Council_tax.jpg

wakeupworld

03-09-2009, 03:00 PM

This is all great news, would love to hear the downloads alas can`t open unless I buy winzip unless there`s another way. Thanks

vienna

03-09-2009, 03:32 PM

good stuff here too...

WIRRAL COUNCIL – Admits that Council Tax is Unlawful and Sets a Legal Precedent.
http://www.freedomrebels.co.uk/members/profile/1/blog-view/blog_4.htm
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=1923153

tien an

03-09-2009, 03:51 PM

I followed the link in your first post, and read right through it. However, I have to say you lost my support at the point you found it important to make derogatory remarks about somebody's physical appearance, as though that reinforced your position. It really isn't clever.

...don't often have occasion to agree with number_6, but here, 'I do'.

Whichever way you look at it; it's derogatory and therefore weakens the argument.

tian an.

wakeupworld

03-09-2009, 05:05 PM

How go this weaken the argument? This was the description given and may be more lighthearted than deliberately offensive.

alternative_answer

03-09-2009, 06:39 PM

How go this weaken the argument? This was the description given and may be more lighthearted than deliberately offensive.

It detracts from the actual success acheived and the potential this has for millions. Stay focused.

tien an

03-09-2009, 06:46 PM

How go this weaken the argument? This was the description given and may be more lighthearted than deliberately offensive.

wakeupworld, in case you hadn't noticed, one of the greatest problems with society today is that it is inherently divisive.
Referring to someone as 'Dumpy', particularly when you are putting forward an argument that insists on honesty and clarity can only serve to weaken the appearance of whoever is putting forward the argument.

To suggest that it is 'lighthearted' probably wouldn't convince the person being referred to as such that it was indeed lighthearted and not offensive.

I am really, really impressed with Ray's achievement here; that he has managed to set a legal precedent.
Referring to someone as 'Dumpy' (in public) does nothing to add any shine to this achievement.

tian an.

tien an

03-09-2009, 06:47 PM

It detracts from the actual success acheived and the potential this has for millions. Stay focused.

Hmph...I wish I could have put it like that!

tian an.

girlgye

03-09-2009, 08:06 PM

yay! Big up the man in Scouse land.

This court case was along the same lines of what happened to me although my CJ was a lot nicer but still an arsehole all the same.

Notice how he says yay fuck off to the highest court in the land asswipe.

So we all know that when he goes up against that bunch of gangstas they can just re-write history.

girlgye

03-09-2009, 08:11 PM

I followed the link in your first post, and read right through it. However, I have to say you lost my support at the point you found it important to make derogatory remarks about somebody's physical appearance, as though that reinforced your position. It really isn't clever.

Oh number6 can't even say congratulations. How much are you being paid. Go pack up your toys and go home.

girlgye

03-09-2009, 08:14 PM

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/44/Council_tax.jpg

You bug off too agent of the matrix.

number_6

03-09-2009, 09:07 PM

Oh number6 can't even say congratulations. How much are you being paid. Go pack up your toys and go home.

You talk so much bollocks. So I am allowed no opinion, unless it follows the party line?

yozhik

03-09-2009, 09:36 PM

Hmph...I wish I could have put it like that!

tian an.

Well, you could have ... its just that damned Verbosity took control again! ;)

tien an

03-09-2009, 10:58 PM

Well, you could have ... its just that damned Verbosity took control again! ;)

:p

wakeupworld

04-09-2009, 01:47 PM

It detracts from the actual success acheived and the potential this has for millions. Stay focused.

Yes it detracts from the actual success but how is the argument weakened. He proved Council Tax is unlawful which is no mean achievement. Stay focused?
Don`t really think school teachers mentality is welcomed.

wakeupworld

04-09-2009, 01:51 PM

How is the word dumpy offensive when looking at the definition of the word?

alternative_answer

04-09-2009, 02:12 PM

How is the word dumpy offensive when looking at the definition of the word?

I was replying to number_6 post Originally Posted by number_6
I followed the link in your first post, and read right through it. However, I have to say you lost my support at the point you found it important to make derogatory remarks about somebody's physical appearance, as though that reinforced your position. It really isn't clever.

I was saying critising the the remark made detracts from the actual success acheived and the potential outcome this has for millions and to stay focused on the outcome not the remarks.

yozhik

04-09-2009, 02:13 PM

How is the word dumpy offensive when looking at the definition of the word?

Why is it required to advance the legal argument?
Would the point have been made if this adjective was omitted?
Did it add weight to the premise upon which the argument was based?

If the answer is "no", it is superfluous to the argument.
If it is superfluous and not relevant to the argument, why include it?

Is the stature or body shape an issue that impacts on the matter?
Or is it a side issue that may obfuscate the matter by tip toeing into the realm of argumentum ad hominem?

alternative_answer

04-09-2009, 02:14 PM

Why is it required to advance the legal argument?
Would the point have been made if this adjective was omitted?
Did it add weight to the premise upon which the argument was based?

If the answer is "no", it is superfluous to the argument.
If it is superfluous and not relevant to the argument, why include it?

Is the stature or body shape an issue that impacts on the matter?
Or is it a side issue that may obfuscate the matter by tip toeing into the realm of argumentum ad hominem?

Exactly the point!

captaincaper

04-09-2009, 03:36 PM

This is all great news, would love to hear the downloads alas can`t open unless I buy winzip unless there`s another way. Thanks

winrar

7zip

just google :)

rosix

04-09-2009, 03:50 PM

winrar

7zip

just google :)

get 7z!

killmicrosoft

04-09-2009, 05:32 PM

Winrar FOR win 32/64 is the best and far more versatile than 7 crap zip

number_6

04-09-2009, 11:14 PM

Exactly the point!

But i feel that you are missing the point. As I see it the idea behind this movement is to not only change our own attitudes and actions, but to hopefully educate, if not the whole world, at least the whole country, so that eventually over a number of years all can become enlightened and see the positive sides to the freeman concept, and adopt them. But, the text I read in your link will not serve that purpose. If anything it will have the reverse effect. OK, your actions may be considered as positive by those that are familiar frequenters on this forum, after all they are already converted. But consider the reaction of a newcomer who may come accross it by chance. Exactly the person who we need to educate. The attitude displayed by taking the piss out of a fellow human being for no other reason than their physical appearance (especially when they are on the opposing side) does not portray the image of a serious movement, but portrays an infantile attitude and one that perhaps should not be taken seriously. And, I consider what may be seen by others as an infantile attitude when trying to promote what is essentially a political ideal, fatal. Unless this freeman concept is promoted in an adult and serious way, then I fear many who may have listened will be turned off by such writings and consider them as nothing more than the rantings of somebody who perhaps should not be taken too seriously.

decim

05-09-2009, 01:28 AM

alternative_answer, You have done something incredible, this council tax has been a plague upon the people of Britain since its inception, post poll tax.

Great Job.

alternative_answer

05-09-2009, 08:00 AM

But i feel that you are missing the point. As I see it the idea behind this movement is to not only change our own attitudes and actions, but to hopefully educate, if not the whole world, at least the whole country, so that eventually over a number of years all can become enlightened and see the positive sides to the freeman concept, and adopt them. But, the text I read in your link will not serve that purpose. If anything it will have the reverse effect. OK, your actions may be considered as positive by those that are familiar frequenters on this forum, after all they are already converted. But consider the reaction of a newcomer who may come accross it by chance. Exactly the person who we need to educate. The attitude displayed by taking the piss out of a fellow human being for no other reason than their physical appearance (especially when they are on the opposing side) does not portray the image of a serious movement, but portrays an infantile attitude and one that perhaps should not be taken seriously. And, I consider what may be seen by others as an infantile attitude when trying to promote what is essentially a political ideal, fatal. Unless this freeman concept is promoted in an adult and serious way, then I fear many who may have listened will be turned off by such writings and consider them as nothing more than the rantings of somebody who perhaps should not be taken too seriously.

Yes I agree, but lets not allow one indiscretion to overshadow what has been acheived, I'm not saying I agree with making derogatory comments to any other person, pesonally I wouldn't as I believe you only see in others what you dislike in yourself.

lewi

07-09-2009, 11:32 PM

You bug off too agent of the matrix.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAj7DcSQeWY

wildhorse

08-09-2009, 12:38 AM

rosix

08-09-2009, 12:57 AM

alternative answer....thank you for bringing this here...

i cannot find your audio links, however, the Rebel Leader link was like reading written honey!

since I am having CONcil tax woes myself and getting no answers to my questions, only demands for more money added, then fuck it...they will be receiving a rebel leader version and see if i end up in court, after all, already been threatened with it....

if you have links to your audio files, then pls could you repost so I may save them :)

this is what we need, that the 'freeman' stuff does hold up and we can wriggle out of this unbearable oppression.

great work and 3 bloody cheers.....

Mate a lot of us have been threatened with all sorts of crap.. among other things we've been totally conditioned to take anything, written in black and white that you receive through the post, as serious business.

A lot of this 'knowing your rights' stuff isn't even "Freeman" at all! It's plainly knowing your rights and having a better idea of the law than 98% of the country! A lot of people enjoy a lot of 'success' with this sorta stuff without nearing "Freeman" territory. I know a lawyer who funnily enough cares very little about things such as speed limits.. he is an asshole though which is even more reason for why he would never teach anyone else what he knows for free.