UK - Right to keep arms (guns etc.)

[rosix]

Hi
have never seen this discussed and have extremely little knowledge on this subject, but from my limited research it seems that by Common Law, if I was living in the UK it would be my lawful right to have guns in my private property? It seems there are statutes 'restricting' this right although Common Law > Statute as we all know :)

Edit to clarify, I would consider having guns only as a means of protecting me and my loved ones.

[kanz]

Hi
have never seen this discussed and have extremely little knowledge on this subject, but from my limited research it seems that by Common Law, if I was living in the UK it would be my lawful right to have guns in my private property? It seems there are statutes 'restricting' this right although Common Law > Statute as we all know :)

Edit to clarify, I would consider having guns only as a means of protecting me and my loved ones.

Im not 100% on gun laws , but there bollox in britain mate . Well in scotland You need a metal container that is bolted into the ground , a police interview, a doctor interview and a few more things. Not to mention if attacked I don't even think your allowed to use the god dam thing.Tho I could be wrong so don't quote me.

You want my advice , get a nice cross bow and a nice big solid knife, and a dog and your good to go and within the law :)

[rosix]

Im not 100% on gun laws , but there bollox in britain mate . Well in scotland You need a metal container that is bolted into the ground , a police interview, a doctor interview and a few more things. Not to mention if attacked I don't even think your allowed to use the god dam thing.Tho I could be wrong so don't quote me.

You want my advice , get a nice cross bow and a nice big solid knife, and a dog and your good to go and within the law :)

well sure if I wanted a LICENSE FOR IT required by statute law.. no thanks!

[tom bombadil]

Hi Rosix .

This topic has been touched on before. Use the search function and pass it on to us :) I too am still interested in this subject! I did a quick look-see and could not find the thread. It is there so dont give up.

From what I remember, we in the uk have two options for gun ownership within the statute laws system. One requires you to prove to the police that you can own, and the other requires the police to say why you cant own. In both cases you have to own up to having a gun! Outside of this in the freeman range, you can do as you wish! But if one does not want conflict with others in the short term then find out your priviledges as given by statute


Let us know!


Nelly.

[rosix]

Hi Rosix .

This topic has been touched on before. Use the search function and pass it on to us :) I too am still interested in this subject! I did a quick look-see and could not find the thread. It is there so dont give up.

From what I remember, we in the uk have two options for gun ownership within the statute laws system. One requires you to prove to the police that you can own, and the other requires the police to say why you cant own. In both cases you have to own up to having a gun! Outside of this in the freeman range, you can do as you wish! But if one does not want conflict with others in the short term then find out your priviledges as given by statute


Let us know!


Nelly.

thanks bud I will search harder ;)

[whizzer]

You would be hard pushed to find anyone willing to sell you a gun in Scotland unless you could provide your license to own one.

[kanz]

You would be hard pushed to find anyone willing to sell you a gun in Scotland unless you could provide your license to own one.

So true , if you want a firearm without a licence will require going underground. No telling if the thing is even working or clean. Never a good combo.

[dolores1]

I built the right to not only bear arms, but superior weaponary into my FOTL notice and my Notary stamped it.

Anybody have any spare AK47's we are out of them here in N. I.?

[rosix]

So true , if you want a firearm without a licence will require going underground. No telling if the thing is even working or clean. Never a good combo.

this will not be a problem for me. Thanks for all the concern though haha

[foobar]

Hi
have never seen this discussed and have extremely little knowledge on this subject, but from my limited research it seems that by Common Law, if I was living in the UK it would be my lawful right to have guns in my private property? It seems there are statutes 'restricting' this right although Common Law > Statute as we all know :)

Edit to clarify, I would consider having guns only as a means of protecting me and my loved ones.

If it ever comes to the attention of the police that you are in possession of an unlicenced weapon, even for the peaceful and lawful intent of defending oneself, expect to be treated like you're waving the thing around threatening to kill strangers.

The British state is extremely scared of the populace possessing the means to defend themselves, whilst our politicians surround themselves with more armed security than Winston Churchill had during WWII.

Their guilty consciences are making them afraid of the public.

[rosix]

If it ever comes to the attention of the police that you are in possession of an unlicenced weapon, even for the peaceful and lawful intent of defending oneself, expect to be treated like you're waving the thing around threatening to kill strangers.

The British state is extremely scared of the populace possessing the means to defend themselves, whilst our politicians surround themselves with more armed security than Winston Churchill had during WWII.

Their guilty consciences are making them afraid of the public.

I was thinking that I'd definitely notify them that, among other things, I was reserving my Common Law right to have arms at my private property for purposes of protecting myself. Then if they have any problems with it we can hash it out before I actually go and get hold of any arms. Even if it's lawful to just get hold of some and have them at your private property, it's probably best to go about it in a more 'pro-active' manner, just like when driving a private automobile with no registered number-plate etc.

[bornfree]

Protestants have the common law right to bear arms.

A historic duty of some to keep and bear arms in England predated the invention of firearms, arising during the reign of Henry II, who promulgated the Assize of Arms in 1181, that required knights and freemen to keep arms and to bear them in service of the king.

The English Bill of Rights 1689 is an important part of the English constitution and mentions a right to bear arms, but this part of the text is now considered obsolete in England. However it still has echoes today due the inclusion of a related text in the U.S. Constitution, specifically in the Second Amendment. The English Bill of Rights remains important because it stripped the monarchy of powers and gave more powers and rights to parliament. Among other things, it stripped the monarchy of its standing army (something which parliament had long fought the Catholic absolute monarchy inclined James II over) and instead it set out the right of Protestant Englishmen to have "arms suitable for their own defense, regardless of their social and economic station". Thus defense of the nation fell to Protestant subjects and not to the monarch. Later governments would re-establish a standing army (and navy and air force), each pleading loyalty to the constitutional monarch.

William Blackstone wrote in the eighteenth century, at a time when there were no police or forces of law enforcement, about the right to have arms being a "natural right of resistance and self-preservation", but conceded that the right was subject to their suitability and allowance by law.

The fifth and last auxiliary right of the subject, that I shall at present mention, is that of having arms for their defence, suitable to their condition and degree, and such as are allowed by law. Which is also declared by the same statute and is indeed a public allowance, under due restrictions, of the natural right of resistance and self-preservation, when the sanctions of society and laws are found insufficient to restrain the violence of oppression.

As i do not consent to "legal acts & statutes" as they cannot mitigate the bill of rights & only "stand under" common sense then all I need is a quick conversion to become a protestant & et viola..... :cool:

[dantesinferno]

lol you lot are nuts :rolleyes:

Unlicensed firearms will get you years in prison not to mention 1 year for every bullet, thinking that you will get round this with freeman tatics is just nuts.

This isnt the same as driving an unlicened car or submitting afidavids declaring yourself to be freeborn.

I live in a part of london where there are many problems with guns and have seen first hand how they deal with it, aggressivley and they dont ask questions first.

Most of the other things you guys are trying to do are tenuaus at best, this will get you killed or put away for a long time, generally you have no need of a gun in the UK.

Dante

[rosix]

lol you lot are nuts :rolleyes:

Unlicensed firearms will get you years in prison not to mention 1 year for every bullet, thinking that you will get round this with freeman tatics is just nuts.

This isnt the same as driving an unlicened car or submitting afidavids declaring yourself to be freeborn.

I live in a part of london where there are many problems with guns and have seen first hand how they deal with it, aggressivley and they dont ask questions first.

Most of the other things you guys are trying to do are tenuaus at best, this will get you killed or put away for a long time, generally you have no need of a gun in the UK.

Dante

perhaps you generally wouldn't need one but I'd like to speak on my own behalf - I wouldn't bother going to the trouble if I didn't feel I needed it. It was my (albeit limited) understanding that if we don't consent to statute, we have a right to keep arms, and I would certainly submit a notice and affidavit to the local police that they would then need to rebut within 30 days or whatever etc. etc. etc.

your attitude and angle is very dodgy for me.. so you think it's "meh whatever" if an untrained unpracticed 18-year-old goes around driving a non-registered Porsche with no license to drive but someone keeping arms at their private property is extremely dangerous and careless?

good guns aren't cheap either :(

[dantesinferno]

You may find my attitude dodgy but the fact is that if the police know that you have unlicensed firearms on your premises they will most likely surround your house / flat break down your door and arrest you at gunpoint, you will then most likely go to prison.

This is fact because I have seen it happen where I live, very close by, I don’t think they will care if you are a freeman or do not consent to statute, this may have limited success with matters of commerce but you are playing with your life with this one.

More of a friendly warning, but as a freeman you will as you should do as you will.

Dante

[marpat]

Hi
have never seen this discussed and have extremely little knowledge on this subject, but from my limited research it seems that by Common Law, if I was living in the UK it would be my lawful right to have guns in my private property? It seems there are statutes 'restricting' this right although Common Law > Statute as we all know :)

Edit to clarify, I would consider having guns only as a means of protecting me and my loved ones.

If you have a license for them and propper storage. I read that strict controls were introduced after the Russian Revolution because the government feared such a thing may happen in this country, especially with lots of pissed off soldiers from the trenches being around.

You are not allowed to own guns for self defence. You need an excuse like vermin control or deer management, or something along those lines

[girlgye]

Hi
have never seen this discussed and have extremely little knowledge on this subject, but from my limited research it seems that by Common Law, if I was living in the UK it would be my lawful right to have guns in my private property? It seems there are statutes 'restricting' this right although Common Law > Statute as we all know :)

Edit to clarify, I would consider having guns only as a means of protecting me and my loved ones.

Fundamentally our country's culture is British and thus we don't really see the need to live by the sword hence those that do quite rightly die by it.

[rosix]

If you have a license for them and propper storage. I read that strict controls were introduced after the Russian Revolution because the government feared such a thing may happen in this country, especially with lots of pissed off soldiers from the trenches being around.

You are not allowed to own guns for self defence. You need an excuse like vermin control or deer management, or something along those lines

vermin control and deer management are excuses in statute but self defense isn't? case in point if so :D the whole thing is a massive joke and/or to maximise profits and/or to maximise control

[marpat]

vermin control and deer management are excuses in statute but self defense isn't? case in point if so :D the whole thing is a massive joke and/or to maximise profits and/or to maximise control

Using a gun for self defence is a very risky affair. You would go to court and would have to prove that you used REASONABLE force. If somebody breaks your door down and you give them the good news with a shotgun then you are going to get in deep shit. The law is very clear on such points. What you need is a spare gun to put in their hands after you shoot them :D

[girlgye]

lol. spoken like a true psychopath.

[resistance]

rosix, if you want my advice I would forget the whole thing of owning an unlicenced firearm in the U.K, the U.K has the most draconian firearms laws in the world, It's easier to own a firearm in Russia thesedays, and that's really saying something. The British public have been so beaten down on gun propaganda, that owning a gun for even vermin control or hunting purposes is frowned upon (infact most ''GOD" given rights are frowned upon in that sad little beaten down country) because propaganda has been so succesfull on all fronts.
It's fucked up because most of the people that make up these draconian gun laws all keep guns themselves, but as we know statute laws are only subject to status, so the law only applies to the masses.

[marpat]

rosix, if you want my advice I would forget the whole thing of owning an unlicenced firearm in the U.K, the U.K has the most draconian firearms laws in the world, It's easier to own a firearm in Russia thesedays, and that's really saying something. The British public have been so beaten down on gun propaganda, that owning a gun for even vermin control or hunting purposes is frowned upon (infact most ''GOD" given rights are frowned upon in that sad little beaten down country) because propaganda has been so succesfull on all fronts.
It's fucked up because most of the people that make up these draconian gun laws all keep guns themselves, but as we know statute laws are only subject to status, so the law only applies to the masses.

I doubt it. Are you telling me that the wealthy are able to wlak around with guns and not be touched by the law? didnt our royal princes get investigated for the supposed shooting of a rare bird?

[tom bombadil]

It is plain to me that most of us want a gun to defendourselves in the event of the SHTFan type situation. Something that is easily to hand and potent enough to either protct oneself from a gov official or from a poacher.

So it is simple to assume that once you have a gun it matters not where you keep this weapon, but if other know that you have it. What follows is what I would not do...;

I would not join a club.
I would not aquire a licence.
I would not buy cheap but effective rifles and hand guns to practice with.
I would not learn how to make and store bullets, and how to dismantle and repair the guns.
I would not learn a trade like deer stalking to earn from this newly aquired skill.
I would not the lose two of the guns and not report it to the cops. Oops!
I would only need about £200 to get started, with the course costing a few hundred more.

That is not how it could not be not done....not!


Not Nelly.

[rosix]

I doubt it. Are you telling me that the wealthy are able to wlak around with guns and not be touched by the law? didnt our royal princes get investigated for the supposed shooting of a rare bird?

the only people I know in the UK with guns are multimillionaires - not that I'm saying this proves anything at all though, I'm just saying :)

[dolores1]

Thousands of people in Northern Ireland have guns including hand guns, they are called personal protection weapons and issued by the police!

12 years ago we had a "visit" in our office from a builder we were asking payment of for a contract. He turned up in a Special Branch bullit proof car with 2 heavies from SB all armed to the teeth.

I insisted on payment even though he threatened us. I detest bullies and I knew he had only brought "protection" to intimidate us. This didn't work with us.

A year later he was murdered by loyalists, it turned out he was one of their leaders but was holding out on them.

I can prove this story to be true.

[godspeed]

good luck with this i have been asking around for my own protection too

were there's a will there's a way....ok might be unlawful but other psychopaths

get then no problem....i know of someone who's son buried one in the garden

and a mate in jail snitched on it...and not the son but his father who's house

it was got 6yrs for it....cops closed the road off and treated all the family

like terrorists and caused a lot of shit over it....and kangaroo court case to boot

i think we should all have one these days but hey what do i know.....:D

[resistance]

[quote]I doubt it. Are you telling me that the wealthy are able to wlak around with guns and not be touched by the law?

No, that's not how it works and you know it, the wealthy don't walk around with guns because their armed jack boot thugs do that job, however if they wish to own guns that are illegal to the general public then that's no problem, because they have imunity from the law.


didnt our royal princes get investigated for the supposed shooting of a rare bird?

And?? what has that got to do with the topic? Illegal quary has nothing to do with illegal firearms, has it.

[marpat]

the only people I know in the UK with guns are multimillionaires - not that I'm saying this proves anything at all though, I'm just saying :)

I know plenty of working class people who own full calibre hunting rifles

[resistance]

I know plenty of working class people who own full calibre hunting rifles

Yes on F.A.C, lots of people that own land own firearms, or with permission to shoot on private land, mostly rimmy's though. Shot guns are by far the most common guns owned in the U.K, apart from air rifles perhaps.

[kanz]

lol you lot are nuts :rolleyes:

Unlicensed firearms will get you years in prison not to mention 1 year for every bullet, thinking that you will get round this with freeman tatics is just nuts.

This isnt the same as driving an unlicened car or submitting afidavids declaring yourself to be freeborn.

I live in a part of london where there are many problems with guns and have seen first hand how they deal with it, aggressivley and they dont ask questions first.

Most of the other things you guys are trying to do are tenuaus at best, this will get you killed or put away for a long time, generally you have no need of a gun in the UK.

Dante

I agreed with you untill you said theres no need to own a gun , i think it would be a great thing if every one owned a gun. Sure you would have a rough coupleof month's with the reintroduction of the gun's. However once crooks learn that normal hardworking people are carrying they will have to apply there trade in a diffrent field. There will still be crime but i would bet it would drop a fair bit.

[dantesinferno]

I agreed with you untill you said theres no need to own a gun , i think it would be a great thing if every one owned a gun. Sure you would have a rough coupleof month's with the reintroduction of the gun's. However once crooks learn that normal hardworking people are carrying they will have to apply there trade in a diffrent field. There will still be crime but i would bet it would drop a fair bit.

doesn’t seemed to have made any difference to crime rates in the US, If we had shops selling guns in my area like in the states there would be lots of dead people.

If criminals are expecting to face people with guns then they tend to go armed themselves.

[rosix]

doesn’t seemed to have made any difference to crime rates in the US, If we had shops selling guns in my area like in the states there would be lots of dead people.

If criminals are expecting to face people with guns then they tend to go armed themselves.

ok guys please don't derail the thread, just let it die if there's nothing to add. I want to be as prepared as possible in as much advance as possible and will take the next active step down this route when I get to it. Would there not be a way to do a FoI request basically getting the local constabulary to admit your available rights, where you only have to then claim them yourself of course? I have never dabbled in the FoI requests or given them much thought so would appreciate some help in drafting one where we could ambitiously anticipate a reply corroborating our presumption (at least mine, that I have a right to arms at my private property for preserving all my rights).

[noodles82]

the only people I know in the UK with guns are multimillionaires - not that I'm saying this proves anything at all though, I'm just saying

Farmers really aren't that rich, you know ;)

I have to say this but everyone, even the original poster, seems to be quite spectacuarly missing the whole point of this discussion in that, gun control in the U.K. is licenced which, as all Freemen think, is the act of begging which adults have no need to do. So it follows that "Anything for which a licence can be granted must, by definition, be fundamentally lawful (otherwise it would be incapable of being licenced), and there is, therefore, absolutely no need for an adult to 'ask such permission'".

Meaning, Rosix, that you don't even need to specify that you would only ever consider ownering a firearm to protect yourself and your loved-ones - you can surely own one for whatever reason you wish - even if it were for the sole purpose of harming someone else (this act would of course bring you into conflict with common law, but my point is still valid?).

[kanz]

doesn’t seemed to have made any difference to crime rates in the US, If we had shops selling guns in my area like in the states there would be lots of dead people.

If criminals are expecting to face people with guns then they tend to go armed themselves.

Oddly enough arnt the places in america with the worst gun crime the places where guns are illegal ?

[dantesinferno]

Oddly enough arnt the places in america with the worst gun crime the places where guns are illegal ?

well I was being general, meaning most of the US, there will always be exceptions.


Meaning, Rosix, that you don't even need to specify that you would only ever consider ownering a firearm to protect yourself and your loved-ones - you can surely own one for whatever reason you wish - even if it were for the sole purpose of harming someone else (this act would of course bring you into conflict with common law, but my point is still valid?).

Well the facts are that you cannot own a firearm in the UK without a licence, if you do and you are caught you will face very serious penalty’s, this isn’t a joke, this could get you killed.

As other people are finding out on this forum, TPTB don’t care about the difference between common law and statute.

[noodles82]

dantesinferno, I appreciate your concern for the posters in this thread but please let me assure you as far as I'm concerned - I spent 5 months working in the Firearms Licensing department of a Police Force in the U.K. not all that many years ago - I know how serious firearms 'offences' are treated. I'm not about to obtain a firearm "lawfully" or "unlawfully".

However, I'd like to think Rosix was merely applying the same Freeman logic I referred to earlier with regards the whole "Licencing issue" from a hypothetical standpoint.

[dantesinferno]

ok no problem, sometimes the talk here bothers me and I have to say something, I have seen firsthand how the police deal with this issue.

Thing is you get a lot of stuff bounded about on the forum that may or may not be true and with something this serious people need to be careful.

anyway dont mean to be so critical, I wish for freedom as much as the next man.

[noodles82]

It's all cool man :) I wasn't taking offence at your posts, just trying to reassure you I'm not about to get shot over this issue.

[dantesinferno]

I live a few miles from where the 6 teenagers were shot the other night, gun crime is rampant where I am as are gangs, luckily the local gang think I’m cool for an old guy lol