Brotherhood of the Ram Satanic Oaths:

[edelweiss pirate]

I found the following interesting Oaths for membership as a neophyte to the Brotherhood of the Ram which existed in one form or another in America during the 60's. The following was an excerpt from the book The Satanist by Dennis Wheatley who was an authority on witchcraft and intelligence operations and actually served on a top secret committee which coordinated England's defence against Nazi Germany during WW2. It is said that Wheatley's research on satanic cults actually inspired Anton Levey who based much of the practices of The Church of Satan on Wheatley's writings.

If anyone knows any other similar oaths you could print them here:

After destroying a wooden crucifix and abjuring Christianity and denying Christ, the neophyte holds a golden phallus above her head as intones the following words:

"By the symbol of the Creator ... I swear henceforth to be ...
faithful servant of His most puissant Arch-Angel... the Prince Lucifer ... whom before
departing to perform further wonders ... He designated as His Regent and Lord of this
World ... As a being now possessed of a human body in this world ... I swear to give my full allegiance to its lawful Master ... To worship Him, Our Lord Satan, and no other...
To despise all man-made religions ... and to bring contempt upon them whenever that may be
done without courting danger ... To undermine the faith of others . . . in such false
religions, wherever possible . . . and bring them to the true faith ... if after
consultation with my superiors they decide that to be desirable ... I swear to obey
without question... every order I may receive from my superiors ... or those who may be
placed in authority over me ... I swear to give my mind, body and soul unreservedly ... to
the furtherance of the designs of Our Lord Satan . . . Finally I swear that as a neophyte
. . . and later should I be privileged to be initiated into the Brotherhood of the Ram ...
I will in no circumstances disclose its secrets . . . the places of meeting of its Lodges
. . . anything to which I have been a witness while attending their meetings ... or the
identity of any person that I have met at one or more of them. Should I break this my oath
... may it be decreed that for a hundred incarnations . .. beginning with my next... I
shall never rise from poverty . . . shall be rejected by all upon whom I may set my
affections... and die from some agonizing disease." '


I think the fact that Satanists seem to be so obssessed with destroying religion shows that it must have some value which has escaped most of us through the constant tales of corrupt perverted clergymen and religious wars and bigotry. What if religions are corrupted from within in order to serve satan in this way?

[fallensoul]

They seem very dedicated, I give you that.

[miracles]

I found the following interesting Oaths for membership as a neophyte to the Brotherhood of the Ram which existed in one form or another in America during the 60's. The following was an excerpt from the book The Satanist by Dennis Wheatley who was an authority on witchcraft and intelligence operations and actually served on a top secret committee which coordinated England's defence against Nazi Germany during WW2. It is said that Wheatley's research on satanic cults actually inspired Anton Levey who based much of the practices of The Church of Satan on Wheatley's writings.

If anyone knows any other similar oaths you could print them here:

After destroying a wooden crucifix and abjuring Christianity and denying Christ, the neophyte holds a golden phallus above her head as intones the following words:



I think the fact that Satanists seem to be so obssessed with destroying religion shows that it must have some value which has escaped most of us through the constant tales of corrupt perverted clergymen and religious wars and bigotry. What if religions are corrupted from within in order to serve satan in this way?


Pastors and clergy is highly sought after position by the illuminati and thats a fact. Good post.

[edelweiss pirate]

Funny, people aren't interested in commenting on satanism but can't wait to jump on the 'kick the shit out of Christianity' bandwaggon...

I find this inconsistency strangely revealing. I'm starting to suspect a 'satanic bias' on this forum....

[enga]

Probably because there are so many different sects/brands of satanism/luciferianism out there it is hard to comment on. It ranges from pleasure seekers who believe in no deity but themself to full blown worshippers of the dark lord (not Mandelson:D). I think there is some entity or groups out there that want to darken and corrupt the world and oaths like that above may be taken by some. I think the pleasure seeking variety would be better off trying to raise their energy levels and being a bit more balanced and slightly less carnal but it's got to be up to them. The full blown occult satan worshippers I am strongly opposed to if they are into abuse and murder and other crimes against people.

[octopusrex]

I wonder why a "ram"?

[fallensoul]

There simply isn't much to discuss here, because no one is talking on behalf of these "Satanists". So there is no debate.

[edelweiss pirate]

Somebody has tagged this 'anti-religious witch-hunt'....

well if your idea of fun is being gang raped by satanists (which is the initiation procedure for Witches as outlined in the book).... then you're free to that opinion.


MCMultiple strikes again methinks. What an oddbod.

[geolaureate8]

Funny, people aren't interested in commenting on satanism but can't wait to jump on the 'kick the shit out of Christianity' bandwaggon...

I find this inconsistency strangely revealing. I'm starting to suspect a 'satanic bias' on this forum....

Let's see why that may be.

Yahweh kill count: >2,000,000,000
Satan kill count: 10

Wars in the name of God: Many
Wars in the name of Satan: Zero

Maybe now you can see why Satanism isn't attacked like Christianity. I've actually read through some of the Satanic Bible and there really isn't anything bad in it, especially compared to the Bible.

.

[edelweiss pirate]

Let's see why that may be.

Yahweh kill count: >2,000,000,000
Satan kill count: 10

Wars in the name of God: Many
Wars in the name of Satan: Zero

Maybe now you can see why Satanism isn't attacked like Christianity. I've actually read through some of the Satanic Bible and there really isn't anything bad in it, especially compared to the Bible.

.

You've pulled those figures out of your arse.

What about Luciferian humanists and pagans like Pol Pot, George W Bush, Saddam Hussein, Stalin, Hitler, Bonaparte.....Roman Empire....

The list goes on....

You're a donut who doesn't do proper research. Freedom of speech is good but freedom to talk bollocks should be seriously curtailed.

[geolaureate8]

You've pulled those figures out of your arse.

You pulled that assertion out of your ass. You only assumed I made those figures up. I got those figures from the dwindlinginunbelief website who actually calculated those numbers straight from the Bible. But can you be honest with yourself here? Does it really matter what the precise number is? Yahweh has committed and commanded many genocides including global genocide. Satan has zero genocides. There's no way you can squeeze yourself out of that one.

What about Luciferian humanists and pagans like Pol Pot, George W Bush, Saddam Hussein, Stalin, Hitler, Bonaparte.....Roman Empire....

The list goes on....

Fail. Luciferianism and Atheism =/= Satanism. Besides, none of them killed in the name of Atheism, they were fueled by extreme political philophies. Hitler on the other hand was a Christian and actually used the Christian hatred of Jews to justify his atrocities. Again, you seem to be missing the point though. Even if more genocidal dictators were Atheists, it has nothing to do with Atheism. Killing and violence is not a tenet of Atheism, but is however, a tenet of Christianity like when Yahweh killed 1 million Ethiopians, or when he commands his people to kill the Canaanites and pillage the villages including infants. He even says "The lord is a man of war. The lord is his name." So don't try to tell me Christianity is more peaceful just because a few dictators were atheist/pagans.

You're a donut who doesn't do proper research. Freedom of speech is good but freedom to talk bollocks should be seriously curtailed.

It is you who has not done the research, nor do you have any idea what you're talking about. Your mind is still imprisoned by Christianity apparently. You have a long ways to go.

.

[miracles]

You've pulled those figures out of your arse.

What about Luciferian humanists and pagans like Pol Pot, George W Bush, Saddam Hussein, Stalin, Hitler, Bonaparte.....Roman Empire....

The list goes on....

You're a donut who doesn't do proper research. Freedom of speech is good but freedom to talk bollocks should be seriously curtailed.

Hear hear, great post. :D

[enga]

It's a bit daft to say Hitler was a Christian because we don't know for sure 100%, we only know what he said he was. Any Luciferian who is into killing babies etc. will not be beyond lying and saying they are a Christian or whatever else to maximise the trouble they do and cover themselves and gain approval of the masses.

[miracles]

It's a bit daft to say Hitler was a Christian because we don't know for sure 100%, we only know what he said he was. Any Luciferian who is into killing babies etc. will not be beyond lying and saying they are a Christian or whatever else to maximise the trouble they do and cover themselves and gain approval of the masses.


Who said Hitler was a Christian?

[edelweiss pirate]

The donut said so.


Hitler was pagan all over, the Thule organisation was a pagan secret society. Stalin too and the communist revolution single handedly attemted to destroy the Christian Orthodox church. Marx said 'Religion is the opium of the masses'.


GodLaureate. You are blinded by anti-religion prejudice and it's making you stumble over basic facts and common sense.

[stfd]

The donut said so.


Hitler was pagan all over, the Thule organisation was a pagan secret society. Stalin too and the communist revolution single handedly attemted to destroy the Christian Orthodox church. Marx said 'Religion is the opium of the masses'.


GodLaureate. You are blinded by anti-religion prejudice and it's making you stumble over basic facts and common sense.



"Stalin too and the communist revolution single handedly attemted to destroy the Christian Orthodox church. Marx said 'Religion is the opium of the masses'."

Damn , i am happy you know of this man.

They even infiltrated the Church with their agents os that they may 'tell on people' and by doing that to slowly get the population (in time) to despise the Church.
And they were in part succesfull but not all was lost.

I think is basically, only at a larger scale , what has been happening all along with the Apostolic Church to begin with.


Yea and trully .. many facets this age-old threat has-many 'heads' ( i think i read that somewhere :D )

[melinda980]

I wonder why a "ram"?

AKA the Goat of Mendes.

From Wikipedia. More research, however is needed to verify the information below.


'In the 19th century, the name of Baphomet became associated with the occult. In 1854, Eliphas Levi published Dogme et Rituel de la Haute Magie ("Dogmas and Rituals of High Magic"), in which he included an image he had drawn himself which he described as Baphomet and "The Sabbatic Goat", showing a winged humanoid goat with a pair of breasts and a torch on its head between its horns (illustration, top). This image has become the best-known representation of Baphomet.

Levi's depiction is similar to that of the Devil in early tarot cards, but it may also have been partly inspired by grotesque carvings on the Templar churches of Lanleff in Brittany and St. Merri in Paris, which depict squatting bearded men with bat wings, female breasts, horns and the shaggy hindquarters of a beast.[12]

Lévi considered the Baphomet to be a depiction of the absolute in symbolic form and explicated in detail his symbolism in the drawing that served as the frontispiece:

"The goat on the frontispiece carries the sign of the pentagram on the forehead, with one point at the top, a symbol of light, his two hands forming the sign of hermetism, the one pointing up to the white moon of Chesed, the other pointing down to the black one of Geburah. This sign expresses the perfect harmony of mercy with justice. His one arm is female, the other male like the ones of the androgyn of Khunrath, the attributes of which we had to unite with those of our goat because he is one and the same symbol. The flame of intelligence shining between his horns is the magic light of the universal balance, the image of the soul elevated above matter, as the flame, whilst being tied to matter, shines above it. The beast's head expresses the horror of the sinner, whose materially acting, solely responsible part has to bear the punishment exclusively; because the soul is insensitive according to its nature and can only suffer when it materializes. The rod standing instead of genitals symbolizes eternal life, the body covered with scales the water, the semi-circle above it the atmosphere, the feathers following above the volatile. Humanity is represented by the two breasts and the androgyn arms of this sphinx of the occult sciences."
Levi called his image “the Baphomet of Mendes”, presumably following Herodotus' account[13] that the god of Mendes — the Greek name for Djedet, Egypt — was depicted with a goat's face and legs. Herodotus relates how all male goats were held in great reverence by the Mendesians, and how in his time a woman publicly copulated with a goat.[14] However the deity that was venerated at Egyptian Mendes was actually a ram deity Banebdjed (literally Ba of the lord of djed, and titled "the Lord of Mendes"), who was the soul of Osiris. Levi combined the images of the Tarot of Marseilles Devil card and refigured the ram Banebdjed as a he-goat, further imagined by him as "copulator in Anep and inseminator in the district of Mendes".

Egyptian connections aside, Lévi's depiction, for all its modern fame, does not match the historical descriptions from the Templar trials, although it is akin to some grotesques found on Templar churches, or, more specifically, to Viollet-le-Duc's vivid gargoyles that were added to Notre Dame de Paris about the same time as Lévi's illustration.

Levi's now-familiar image of a "Sabbatic Goat" shows parallels with works by the Spanish artist Francisco Goya, who more than once painted a "Witch's Sabbath"; in the version ca 1821-23, El gran cabrón [15] now at the Prado], a group of seated women offer their dead infant children to a seated goat.


Aleister Crowley
The Baphomet of Lévi was to become an important figure within the cosmology of Thelema, the mystical system established by Aleister Crowley in the early twentieth century. Baphomet features in the Creed of the Gnostic Catholic Church recited by the congregation in The Gnostic Mass, in the sentence: "And I believe in the Serpent and the Lion, Mystery of Mystery, in His name BAPHOMET."[16]

In Magick (Book 4), Crowley asserted that Baphomet was a divine androgyne and "the hieroglyph of arcane perfection":

“ The Devil does not exist. It is a false name invented by the Black Brothers to imply a Unity in their ignorant muddle of dispersions. A devil who had unity would be a God... 'The Devil' is, historically, the God of any people that one personally dislikes... This serpent, SATAN, is not the enemy of Man, but He who made Gods of our race, knowing Good and Evil; He bade 'Know Thyself!' and taught Initiation. He is 'The Devil' of the Book of Thoth, and His emblem is BAPHOMET, the Androgyne who is the hieroglyph of arcane perfection... He is therefore Life, and Love. But moreover his letter is ayin, the Eye, so that he is Light; and his Zodiacal image is Capricornus, that leaping goat whose attribute is Liberty.[17] ”

For Crowley, Baphomet is further a representative of the spiritual nature of the spermatozoa while also being symbolic of the "magical child" produced as a result of sex magic. As such, Baphomet represents the Union of Opposites, especially as mystically personified in Chaos and Babalon combined and biologically manifested with the sperm and egg united in the zygote.[citation needed]'

[metacomet]

Let's see why that may be.

Yahweh kill count: >2,000,000,000
Satan kill count: 10

Wars in the name of God: Many
Wars in the name of Satan: Zero

Maybe now you can see why Satanism isn't attacked like Christianity. I've actually read through some of the Satanic Bible and there really isn't anything bad in it, especially compared to the Bible.

.

That's fucking retarded,

and a perfect example of the exact kind of perverted logic that is meant to be carried out by people at this point in society.

Instead of realizing that all God-centric and 'holy' religions were usurped by evil forces to start war, people run around with their heads up their ass saying things like "So many wars are fought over God."

No war has ever been fought on behalf of God, all war is the product of man and through his deceit and blasphemous nature, that which is accredited to the Beast and the Great Deceiver, these men use religion and God as an excuse.

And people gobble it up.
They gobble it up and they run around with their noses in the air saying "fuck christianity, too many wars fought over Christ", "fuck islam,too many jihaddists".

It's really depressing to see how fantastic the deception has been on you people.

The Roman Empire and it's bastard child the Vatican decreed 'religious wars' to take money and land and they had nothing to do with God or the creator or even Christ - yet all you see is people walking around with their noses in the air "Christians started all the wars in history so fuck the bible."

:mad:

This is the result of ZERO education, NO knowledge about real history, NO interest in studying real history... just lazy minds who want to blame everything on religion. It's everywhere.

Absolutely everywhere.

*slams door*

[miracles]

That's fucking retarded,

and a perfect example of the exact kind of perverted logic that is meant to be carried out by people at this point in society.

Instead of realizing that all God-centric and 'holy' religions were usurped by evil forces to start war, people run around with their heads up their ass saying things like "So many wars are fought over God."

No war has ever been fought on behalf of God, all war is the product of man and through his deceit and blasphemous nature, that which is accredited to the Beast and the Great Deceiver, these men use religion and God as an excuse.

And people gobble it up.
They gobble it up and they run around with their noses in the air saying "fuck christianity, too many wars fought over Christ", "fuck islam,too many jihaddists".

It's really depressing to see how fantastic the deception has been on you people.

The Roman Empire and it's bastard child the Vatican decreed 'religious wars' to take money and land and they had nothing to do with God or the creator or even Christ - yet all you see is people walking around with their noses in the air "Christians started all the wars in history so fuck the bible."

:mad:

This is the result of ZERO education, NO knowledge about real history, NO interest in studying real history... just lazy minds who want to blame everything on religion. It's everywhere.

Absolutely everywhere.

*slams door*

Well thats was a spirited passionate defense, well said. :)

[geolaureate8]

That's fucking retarded,

and a perfect example of the exact kind of perverted logic that is meant to be carried out by people at this point in society.

Instead of realizing that all God-centric and 'holy' religions were usurped by evil forces to start war, people run around with their heads up their ass saying things like "So many wars are fought over God."

No war has ever been fought on behalf of God, all war is the product of man and through his deceit and blasphemous nature, that which is accredited to the Beast and the Great Deceiver, these men use religion and God as an excuse.

I don't care if wars were started on behalf of God or not. That's besides the point. You act like the only argument I have is that religion causes violence. You see, I'm attacking religion itself, not the men who have fought over it. My whole point that violence is inherent in religion, specifically the holy books like the Bible. That is what I'm attacking. So you can go on and on about how wars were because of man and not God, and I couldn't care less, that's besides the point.

This right here is my whole point, and YOU CANNOT REFUTE IT.

"Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and tortuous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistant that we call it the word of a demon than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind; and, for my part, I sincerely detest it, as I detest everything that is cruel." - Thomas Paine

And people gobble it up.
They gobble it up and they run around with their noses in the air saying "fuck christianity, too many wars fought over Christ", "fuck islam,too many jihaddists".

FAIL.

"You shall annihilate them - Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites, Jebusites – as Yahweh your God commanded you." – Deuteronomy 20.11,18

"The Lord is a man of war; the Lord is his name." – Exodus 15.3

"Every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth." - Genesis 7:4


Quit with the BS about "oh, God is the good one, man is evil." You know that's not true.


It's really depressing to see how fantastic the deception has been on you people.

The Roman Empire and it's bastard child the Vatican decreed 'religious wars' to take money and land and they had nothing to do with God or the creator or even Christ - yet all you see is people walking around with their noses in the air "Christians started all the wars in history so fuck the bible."

:mad:

This is the result of ZERO education, NO knowledge about real history, NO interest in studying real history... just lazy minds who want to blame everything on religion. It's everywhere.

Absolutely everywhere.

Your argument has been destroyed. Either you have no clue that half the Bible is violent, or you're in denial.


I've formally debated this very topic, and won by a land slide.

http://www.debate.org/debate/8368/

I won the debate, 32 - 7.

.

[geolaureate8]

The donut said so.


Hitler was pagan all over, the Thule organisation was a pagan secret society. Stalin too and the communist revolution single handedly attemted to destroy the Christian Orthodox church. Marx said 'Religion is the opium of the masses'.


GodLaureate. You are blinded by anti-religion prejudice and it's making you stumble over basic facts and common sense.

"Hitler often praised Christian heritage, German Christian culture, and professed a belief in an Aryan Jesus Christ, a Jesus who fought against the Jews.[285] In his speeches and publications Hitler spoke of his interpretation of Christianity as a central motivation for his antisemitism, stating that "As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice." - Wiki

I'm not stumbling over basic facts. Do the knowledge. You're far behind.

And yes, I realize he was also into the occult and the Thule Society, but that's not the point. I could say the same thing about Constantine and the original Christians, the Gnostics. I guess you could say Hitler was a Christian in a similar manner as the Pope is Catholic. Obviously the Pope is Catholic, but behind closed doors, he's into black magic and homosexual activity. So it's fair to call him Christian, even if he's deceptive about it.

.

[eternal_spirit]

Okay it's believed Hitler needed the Christians on his side considering Germany was a majority Catholic and Protestant country at the time.
But he did say Christianity is a hoax and invention by Jews to fool the Goyim.

here is just a sample of what he also said.
"Christianity is an invention of sick brains," Adolf Hitler, 13 December 1941.

"So it's not opportune to hurl ourselves now into a struggle with the Churches. The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death," Adolf Hitler, 14 October 1941.

Hitler usually concluded this historical speculation by remarking "You see, it's been our misfortune to have the wrong religion. Why didn't we have the religion of the Japanese, who regard sacrifice for the Fatherland as the highest good? The Mohammedan religion too would have been much more compatible to us than Christianity. Why did it have to be Christianity with its meekness and flabbiness? [Speer, p. 96]

Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure. [p. 51]

When National Socialism has ruled long enough, it will no longer be possible to conceive of a form of life different from ours. In the long run, National Socialism and religion will no longer be able to exist together. … No, it does not mean a war. The ideal solution would be to leave the religions to devour themselves, without persecutions. But in that case we must not replace the Church with something equivalent…The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity. [Hitler's Table Talk, p. 6-7] Christianity, of course, has reached the peak of absurdity in this respect. And that's why one day its structure will collapse. Science has already impregnated humanity. Consequently, the more Christianity clings to its dogmas, the quicker it will decline.
[Hitler's Table Talk, pp 58-62]
The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity. [Table Talk, p. 75]...The Jew who fraudulently introduced Christianity into the ancient world—in order to ruin it—re-opened the same breach in modern times, taking as his pretext the social question.

PS was you Talmudic Jews who killed Jesus you admit to it in your Talmud.

[eternal_spirit]

The chapter on the Ukrainian liquidation of believers makes for very difficult reading. Imagine this: the Ukrainian Catholic Church had 2,772 parishes, 8 bishops, 4,119 churches and chapels, 142 monasteries and convents, 2,628 priests, 164 monks, 773 nuns, and 4 million laypeople. By the end of the largest suppression of believers in world history, the entire apparatus was reduced to: zero.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/rockwell/martyrs.html


See Communism was the REAL enemy of most Europeans not the Nazis. Because of communist atrocities committed well before the war and during many Europeans seen Hitler as the answer to defeating Communism (Jew created and led)

Some Christians and Nazis knew about the Talmud and supremacist Jews and the Protocols of Zion.

So anyone taking sides with the Nazis had good reason too (Christians and all manner of races colours and creeds fought with the Nazis, including some Muslims)

Compare the atrocities committed by Communists and Nazi. No competition who killed 10 and 10s of millions more? Communists - Nazis where defeated 60 odd years ago, Communism is still a killing machine Today!

[eternal_spirit]

"


Obviously the Pope is Catholic, but behind closed doors, he's into black magic and homosexual activity. So it's fair to call him Christian, even if he's deceptive about it.

.
No proof he is homo sexual and even if he is so what. No proof he's into black magic either is there really?

[fallensoul]

Nice thread, geolaureate8, I enjoyed that debate very much, good job.

[stfd]

That's fucking retarded,

and a perfect example of the exact kind of perverted logic that is meant to be carried out by people at this point in society.

Instead of realizing that all God-centric and 'holy' religions were usurped by evil forces to start war, people run around with their heads up their ass saying things like "So many wars are fought over God."

No war has ever been fought on behalf of God, all war is the product of man and through his deceit and blasphemous nature, that which is accredited to the Beast and the Great Deceiver, these men use religion and God as an excuse.

And people gobble it up.
They gobble it up and they run around with their noses in the air saying "fuck christianity, too many wars fought over Christ", "fuck islam,too many jihaddists".

It's really depressing to see how fantastic the deception has been on you people.

The Roman Empire and it's bastard child the Vatican decreed 'religious wars' to take money and land and they had nothing to do with God or the creator or even Christ - yet all you see is people walking around with their noses in the air "Christians started all the wars in history so fuck the bible."

:mad:

This is the result of ZERO education, NO knowledge about real history, NO interest in studying real history... just lazy minds who want to blame everything on religion. It's everywhere.

Absolutely everywhere.

*slams door*

For all it matters - i applaud you for this post.

The deceit runs deep indeed and is exactly like you said i will just add few more things myself.

Zero education but not in the newlydefined 'way' of doing it today, where all 'learn' one damn thing and in all OTHER domains are simply 'tabula rasa'.
Not in the way of simply REPEATING what they are told and simply regurgitating info.
The problem with 'education' at the root is that the ammount of those who can actually trully TEACH is increasingly reduced whether through 'public schooling' or via the tradition is all swiftly coming to almost a halt.

NO knowledge about real history, NO interest in studying real history - as normally one doesnt get born knowledgeable but has to study and work towards achieving knowledge etc , it is obvious WHY there isnt ANY knowledge... they all fall like the links of a chain.

As for blaming... i guess that's a very common human thing... blame all and everything BUT one's self for all and everything that happens or happened.

is sad, very sad.

[flereous]

I found the following interesting Oaths for membership as a neophyte to the Brotherhood of the Ram which existed in one form or another in America during the 60's. The following was an excerpt from the book The Satanist by Dennis Wheatley who was an authority on witchcraft and intelligence operations and actually served on a top secret committee which coordinated England's defence against Nazi Germany during WW2. It is said that Wheatley's research on satanic cults actually inspired Anton Levey who based much of the practices of The Church of Satan on Wheatley's writings.

If anyone knows any other similar oaths you could print them here:

After destroying a wooden crucifix and abjuring Christianity and denying Christ, the neophyte holds a golden phallus above her head as intones the following words:



I think the fact that Satanists seem to be so obssessed with destroying religion shows that it must have some value which has escaped most of us through the constant tales of corrupt perverted clergymen and religious wars and bigotry. What if religions are corrupted from within in order to serve satan in this way?

It says MAN MADE RELIGIONS not Religions in general.

[edelweiss pirate]

It says MAN MADE RELIGIONS not Religions in general.

The Masons and Illuminati believe that religion is man-made. So do I. But I don't agree that it should be destroyed.

I believe in the wisdom of the prophets and that they had an insight from God.

But religion can never come close to the original god given form of wisdom given to Jesus, Mohammed or Buddha......

I'm no great fan of religion becuase it is created by weak and corruptible human beings but it's better than nothing and much better than Illuminati paganism.

At least with Christianity you know what you're gonna get, and human sacrifice is not practiced (Jesus was the only human sacrifice necessary). With Illuminated paganism or Wicca there's gonna be a big grey area where 'sacrifice' is concerned. And that's why we get these brutal wars throughout history. The world is ruled at the highest level by Luciferian pagans who believe in an ongoing need 'sacrifice'.

[rapunzel]

The Masons and Illuminati believe that religion is man-made. So do I. But I don't agree that it should be destroyed.

I believe in the wisdom of the prophets and that they had an insight from God.

But religion can never come close to the original god given form of wisdom given to Jesus, Mohammed or Buddha......

I'm no great fan of religion becuase it is created by weak and corruptible human beings but it's better than nothing and much better than Illuminati paganism.

At least with Christianity you know what you're gonna get, and human sacrifice is not practiced (Jesus was the only human sacrifice necessary). With Illuminated paganism or Wicca there's gonna be a big grey area where 'sacrifice' is concerned. And that's why we get these brutal wars throughout history. The world is ruled at the highest level by Luciferian pagans who believe in an ongoing need 'sacrifice'.

I don't know what "Illuminated paganism" is or what "Luciferian pagans" are but with Wicca there is no grey area where sacrifice is concerned unless it is the sacrifice of oneself to save another. None of the Pagans I know worship or even acknowledge Lucifer, which is a Judaic/Zoroastrian concept but instead worship the old Gods of Europe.

[edelweiss pirate]

I don't know what "Illuminated paganism" is or what "Luciferian pagans" are but with Wicca there is no grey area where sacrifice is concerned unless it is the sacrifice of oneself to save another. None of the Pagans I know worship or even acknowledge Lucifer, which is a Judaic/Zoroastrian concept but instead worship the old Gods of Europe.

I think I've mention before that perhaps you haven't reached a high enough level.

Do you know what the process of Illumination involves? Do you know what is meant by Luciferian enlightenment. Do you know what Wiccan Initiation seeks to evoke? Luciferian is equated with 'light'. Luciferian enlightenment is a pretty well known term to describe the psychic changes which take place as a result of various rituals.

I wonder sometimes if you are even a wiccan at all. You don't know much about it. Anyway, I learned about it from the masons/illuminati and from a family relative who is a white witch who worships Thor.

I found that as a result of illumination by various illuminati groups (it unfolded over a matter of years) I was in the same psychic space as my nana. Maybe you have different terms for these things but the results are the same.

Maybe you're just in a hobby group or something. I don't think you are an authority about wicca at all. Either that or you have been charged to keep its secrets just like the masons here do and so you just debunk everything.

[rapunzel]

I think I've mention before that perhaps you haven't reached a high enough level.

And I've told you that after 30 years I am at the highest level possible - 3rd degree. There is nothing else except perhaps to become well known and respected in the community by writing a decent book.

Do you know what the process of Illumination involves? Do you know what is meant by Luciferian enlightenment.

No, do you? Presumably you have been or are a Luciferian if you know.

Do you know what Wiccan Initiation seeks to evoke?

Yes, but evidently you don't although you think you know.

Luciferian is equated with 'light'. Luciferian enlightenment is a pretty well known term to describe the psychic changes which take place as a result of various rituals.

I know that Lucifer is Latin for light bearer and is an incorrect translation by Jerome from the Hebrew. There is no such person as Lucifer so he cannot be Satan but the word is so commonly associated with Satan that the difference is no longer understood by many people. As a Wiccan I do not use Latin and therfore the word Lucifer has no meaning for me in any ritual or religious sense nor would anything I experience be described as "Luciferian". I avoid any usage of the word due to ignorant people equating Lucifer with Satan and thus assuming that I am a Satanist.

I have no idea of what context you are using the word Luciferian in, whether in it's correct designation or its Satanic designation.

I wonder sometimes if you are even a wiccan at all. You don't know much about it.

Your opinion of me is not relevant. Because I challenge what you say about Wicca your own delusional self importance cannot accept that I may be right so you persude yourself that I am not who I say I am because you can conceive of no other explanation.

Anyway, I learned about it from the masons/illuminati and from a family relative who is a white witch who worships Thor.

Great, so a so-called white witch who worships Thor is an expert on the tens of thousands of Wiccans in Europe and can be relied on for information about Wiccan beliefs. I'm not a Mason or an Illuminati so cannot comment on either although that doesn;t stop other people equally ignorant of such things who constantly comment.:D

I found that as a result of illumination by various illuminati groups (it unfolded over a matter of years) I was in the same psychic space as my nana. Maybe you have different terms for these things but the results are the same.

Are they the same? Since I have never discussed my spiritual or psychic experiences you cannot say that the results are the same.

Maybe you're just in a hobby group or something. I don't think you are an authority about wicca at all. Either that or you have been charged to keep its secrets just like the masons here do and so you just debunk everything.

See my comment above about delusional self importance unable to stand up to being challenged. How dare I challenge you! I must either be lying or part of some conspiracy because I have the nerve to debunk some of what you say.

As this exchange of opinion was because I challenged your comments about Wicca and sacrifice and as you appear to be the expert here perhaps you can tell me how sacrifice and the command to “harm none” go together.

[metacomet]

Your argument has been destroyed. Either you have no clue that half the Bible is violent, or you're in denial.


I've formally debated this very topic, and won by a land slide.

http://www.debate.org/debate/8368/

I won the debate, 32 - 7.

.

That isn't this particular debate.

You didn't post any rebuttals in that... especially not mine.

You're a twat. :rolleyes:

[edelweiss pirate]

And I've told you that after 30 years I am at the highest level possible - 3rd degree. There is nothing else except perhaps to become well known and respected in the community by writing a decent book.



No, do you? Presumably you have been or are a Luciferian if you know.



Yes, but evidently you don't although you think you know.



I know that Lucifer is Latin for light bearer and is an incorrect translation by Jerome from the Hebrew. There is no such person as Lucifer so he cannot be Satan but the word is so commonly associated with Satan that the difference is no longer understood by many people. As a Wiccan I do not use Latin and therfore the word Lucifer has no meaning for me in any ritual or religious sense nor would anything I experience be described as "Luciferian". I avoid any usage of the word due to ignorant people equating Lucifer with Satan and thus assuming that I am a Satanist.

I have no idea of what context you are using the word Luciferian in, whether in it's correct designation or its Satanic designation.



Your opinion of me is not relevant. Because I challenge what you say about Wicca your own delusional self importance cannot accept that I may be right so you persude yourself that I am not who I say I am because you can conceive of no other explanation.



Great, so a so-called white witch who worships Thor is an expert on the tens of thousands of Wiccans in Europe and can be relied on for information about Wiccan beliefs. I'm not a Mason or an Illuminati so cannot comment on either although that doesn;t stop other people equally ignorant of such things who constantly comment.:D



Are they the same? Since I have never discussed my spiritual or psychic experiences you cannot say that the results are the same.



See my comment above about delusional self importance unable to stand up to being challenged. How dare I challenge you! I must either be lying or part of some conspiracy because I have the nerve to debunk some of what you say.

As this exchange of opinion was because I challenged your comments about Wicca and sacrifice and as you appear to be the expert here perhaps you can tell me how sacrifice and the command to “harm none” go together.

Again you have no insight to offer nor information to share, just criticism of people who reveal information while you 'keep your secrets'.

You're boring, guarded and rather unpleasant; snapping at people and being offensive. A classic victim of satanic mind control who is probably involved in mind controlling other poor suckers.

Bye bye wicked witch of the web!

Or would you like to buck the trend and tell us about your initiation?

Doubt it! Ta-ra Grotbags

[rapunzel]

Again you have no insight to offer nor information to share, just criticism of people who reveal information while you 'keep your secrets'.

You're boring, guarded and rather unpleasant; snapping at people and being offensive. A classic victim of satanic mind control who is probably involved in mind controlling other poor suckers.

Bye bye wicked witch of the web!

Or would you like to buck the trend and tell us about your initiation?

Doubt it! Ta-ra Grotbags

My initiation is my own business and I do not blab to people I do not know, particularly when they appear to despise me and call me a liar. Yes, I am guarded when it comes to those I do not trust but to those I do trust I am happy to open up and tell them what I know whether they are Wiccan or not. Guess which category you come into:rolleyes:

You have never revealed any "information" about Wicca just lies and innuendo and you are very free with the verbal abuse when you are challenged, which shows just how unsure you are of your own opinions. Your allegations of "satanic mind control" show just how low you have fallen as it appears that you are incapable of rational and intelligent debate having to fall back on abuse. On any other Forum you would be banned for such language. I pity you.

[danceswithbunnies]

We have "satanic mind control" here in the states...we call it the republican party and the EIB network in particular...LOL

[edelweiss pirate]

My initiation is my own business and I do not blab to people I do not know, particularly when they appear to despise me and call me a liar. Yes, I am guarded when it comes to those I do not trust but to those I do trust I am happy to open up and tell them what I know whether they are Wiccan or not. Guess which category you come into:rolleyes:

You have never revealed any "information" about Wicca just lies and innuendo and you are very free with the verbal abuse when you are challenged, which shows just how unsure you are of your own opinions. Your allegations of "satanic mind control" show just how low you have fallen as it appears that you are incapable of rational and intelligent debate having to fall back on abuse. On any other Forum you would be banned for such language. I pity you.


Bollocks. This movement is all about exposing secrets lies and corruption. You grotbags are part of that corruption!

Pity yourself, you're the one who's in the shit!

My whole history on this forum has been about exposing the mason schizophrenia inducing rituals, questioning the nature of so called 'Illumination', and about trying to coordinate people to use their untapped psychic power to change the world for the better.

I've been at it for years on this and the old forum.

You do fuck all exempt debunk good information while offering nothing yourself!

You were on the old forum I believe, at least some troll called Rapunzel was, but they got dealt with properly if I remember correctly. You're only here because this forum is more tolerant of trolls than the old one.

[marpat]

I found the following interesting Oaths for membership as a neophyte to the Brotherhood of the Ram which existed in one form or another in America during the 60's. The following was an excerpt from the book The Satanist by Dennis Wheatley who was an authority on witchcraft and intelligence operations and actually served on a top secret committee which coordinated England's defence against Nazi Germany during WW2. It is said that Wheatley's research on satanic cults actually inspired Anton Levey who based much of the practices of The Church of Satan on Wheatley's writings.

If anyone knows any other similar oaths you could print them here:

After destroying a wooden crucifix and abjuring Christianity and denying Christ, the neophyte holds a golden phallus above her head as intones the following words:



I think the fact that Satanists seem to be so obssessed with destroying religion shows that it must have some value which has escaped most of us through the constant tales of corrupt perverted clergymen and religious wars and bigotry. What if religions are corrupted from within in order to serve satan in this way?

Unless they see religions as some sort of trap. It does say to destroy MAN MADE religions so I cant see why that would be an issue.

[edelweiss pirate]

Unless they see religions as some sort of trap. It does say to destroy MAN MADE religions so I cant see why that would be an issue.

Ok, but later on the neophyte in order to be initiated to a full witch will be gang raped in order to become a witch.

It's all in the book.

I think you're trying to justify great acts of evil and this makes you an evil man too Marpat.

But by all means keep posting Marpat, it gives me something to do and gurantees my place in heaven......

Don't know where you'll be going though dude.

Like attracts like remember..... enjoy the ride sucka!

[stfd]

Hey !

how does one unsubscribe?
Seriously i dont know...
Can anyone tell me pls?

[melinda980]

Hey !

how does one unsubscribe?
Seriously i dont know...
Can anyone tell me pls?


If I may be so bold, why do you want to unsubscribe?

[miracles]

Hey !

how does one unsubscribe?
Seriously i dont know...
Can anyone tell me pls?

You have to ask the Moderators/techos, they can make you inactive

[stfd]

If I may be so bold, why do you want to unsubscribe?

I find it more and more obvious that there is nothing here for me :)
It also feels like many on here are what some would call "agents of the system" , and is like a 'recruiting ground for them'.
First i was under the impresion that this is sort of a place where people discuss things towards achieving a common good but that i feel is no longer the case. It feels increasingly more like the opposite actually.

In any event , i still dont know how to cancel the account thing and to sto the automated mails to pop in my email adress...

If any admin sees this , can you pls help with that ?

[melinda980]

I find it more and more obvious that there is nothing here for me :)
It also feels like many on here are what some would call "agents of the system" , and is like a 'recruiting ground for them'.
First i was under the impresion that this is sort of a place where people discuss things towards achieving a common good but that i feel is no longer the case. It feels increasingly more like the opposite actually.

In any event , i still dont know how to cancel the account thing and to sto the automated mails to pop in my email adress...

If any admin sees this , can you pls help with that ?


I know there is a lot of conflict on here, but there are people who are working towards a common good, even if it is not always apparant. Sorry you feel that way and good luck in your endeavours.

[themime]

It feels increasingly more like the opposite actually.

A prison cell for the mind by any chance?

[edelweiss pirate]

This place is a garden where good seeds are planted, there are also plenty of weeds in the garden.

We all water this garden with our intentions.

I like it here. We are progressing every day. When I think of the old forum and how you would have maybe 50 people on line at a busy time... Now we have thousands.

It's great!

There are weeds in every garden. We will never be free from them, we just have to learn to be stronger and resist them.

[danceswithbunnies]

Realization...OMG...i think i understand...and i do not have long on the computer this morning.

It is not the Christians i hate...it is the false prophet.
the evangelcial church here in the US that has been pointing the finger everywhere but where it belongs...and supporting the beast unreservedly...my apologies to those i have offended.

This morning i was watching a video on Mercola about GMO.
Have been struggling with food allergies and stuff..serious stuff.
I live in the US where the government lets corporations experiment on us for profit. Did you know that 70% of our food is GM?


was thinking about revelation the other day..
REV 9:21 men did not repent of their phonos, parmakea,porneia or khemna..
Namely slaughter, poisoning, pornography, and theft..

The corporate powers that control the US government..this is their main focus.

Slaughter- military and abortion
Pharmakea- GM crops (Monsanto) pharmaceutical industries
Pornograghy- Hollywood
Theft- Federal Reserve bank, IMF, hedgefunds...

Eagle is pheonix in old astrological terms this is the serpent..
Eagle was the standard of the roman empire...and is The US's symbol..and yes the beast could be more than one nation but mainly the US.

The image of the beast...does not exist until the beast gives it power...it is The Corporation which has MORE rights under law than flesh and blood people...

I know this is sketchy...but it came to me in a flash...and there is so much more..
but this is all i have time for now..OMG!

[edelweiss pirate]

Realization...OMG...i think i understand...and i do not have long on the computer this morning.

It is not the Christians i hate...it is the false prophet.
the evangelcial church here in the US that has been pointing the finger everywhere but where it belongs...and supporting the beast unreservedly...my apologies to those i have offended.

This morning i was watching a video on Mercola about GMO.
Have been struggling with food allergies and stuff..serious stuff.
I live in the US where the government lets corporations experiment on us for profit. Did you know that 70% of our food is GM?


was thinking about revelation the other day..
REV 9:21 men did not repent of their phonos, parmakea,porneia or khemna..
Namely slaughter, poisoning, pornography, and theft..

The corporate powers that control the US government..this is their main focus.

Slaughter- military and abortion
Pharmakea- GM crops (Monsanto) pharmaceutical industries
Pornograghy- Hollywood
Theft- Federal Reserve bank, IMF, hedgefunds...

Eagle is pheonix in old astrological terms this is the serpent..
Eagle was the standard of the roman empire...and is The US's symbol..and yes the beast could be more than one nation but mainly the US.

The image of the beast...does not exist until the beast gives it power...it is The Corporation which has MORE rights under law than flesh and blood people...

I know this is sketchy...but it came to me in a flash...and there is so much more..
but this is all i have time for now..OMG!

Very interesting. Chimes with what I think the programme is.

I sent the following out as a PM to a few members recently, I want to post it here because I think it explains what's going on in the world.





It's the same game they've been playing since mankind first developed a guilt complex about being born into the material world.

The masons claim they are a 'moral' group. In a way they are, but more in the sense that they are a judge of morality. What happens is there are a whole bunch of earthbound trapped spirits. The masons get into their rituals in order to communicate with these spirits and learn from them and ultimately control them.

These spirits are like a blackband around the earth, it is usually guilt that has kept them there and they are unable to progress into the light because they are prisoners of their own thoughts which being envy, anger or revenge related, keep them stuck to earth after their death.

These beings are very useful to the masons as they can be used for many purposes such as espionage, confusion and creation of fake religion (channeling phenomenon, spiritism) and assassination and tormenting those targeted.

What the more evil spirits intend is destruction, in line with the Old testament God Jehovah's testing, judgement and ultimate destruction of Cities and counties which fall short of the glory of God..

I know this because I was briefly involved in the programme as I got 'illuminated', brain chemistry changes and you find yourself vibrating at a very high level where the astral plane seeps into your daily life. You live on the material plane and the astral plane simultaneously.

This is why schizophrenics 'hear voices' feel odd sensations and often exhibit ESP and PK tendencies. They often feel the devil is inside them and talking to them, in a sense they are right. The lower astral entities along with masons who at the higher levels can astrally project themselves at will are equally in communication with them whether they like it or not.

The modern equivalent of demonic possession is communication with aliens.

The slavery of the masons is so complete because they can get literally INSIDE YOUR HEAD. Whether you are talking to 'aliens' 'demons' 'angels' or 'Saint Germain' the chances are you have become a mind control slave and by giving away your personal mind to these beings you are abdicating your right to free-will.

So basically, we as a race are being tested. All of the additives in food, the crap dumbass pop music and violent films are the devil's temptation (in line with the Biblical story of Job), if enough people fall into temptation then the results are that they basically become human cabages, fucked up on chemicals and with a mind full of horror films and teenage sexualisation.

At that point judgement day arrives in the form of a timely plague or a war which destroys that civilisation wholly or partially in order that a new form will rise which will be hopfully more morally inclined.

So the masons are doing nothing that Jahweh didn't do in the Bible and this is their justification for their Great Work.

They see themselves as acting as the Devil's representative in earth but only because they believe the world NEEDS a devil as outlined by the Old Testament....

By being on this forum and challenging this scenario we are actually doing what we are supposed to do.

We are meant to fight back. When we roll over onto our backs that's when they get the right to stick the knife in.

None of this means I agree with what is happening from a religious point of view. I just accept that this IS what is happening.
Whether you believe in the devil or not makes no difference because THEY do.

There is a God out there but I'm pretty sure it looks nothing like Jahweh...

[danceswithbunnies]

Hi EP i am not sure about that..
the difference between schizophrenic and shaman is the shizophrenic can't control his altered state whereas the shaman can enter and leave at will..

I also think that folks like Rapunzel are not the enemy, because she is connecting to the Source of life in her own way without the intermediary of an institution.

To me this is what the bible is really talking about..it talks in John about the Logos being the light in all men..and how Christ is the intermediary with God/source and no other..that no teachers but that within is required..
Witches, Wicca/Shaman are following their voice within through the wilderness.

Usually food is meant as spiritual sustenance..which is why Jesus retorts in the Dessert that man does not live by bread alone but by every word (rhema-living utterance , not written) of God..
When the Isaraelites were going through the desert, they longed for the fleshpots of Egypt..meaning teachings of bondage, like our entire system teaches..Instead of relying on the inner voice of the Teacher, the Spirit.
This inner voice of spirit is to be followed rather than the teachings of men, that is why it is like going through the desert, you are not relying on what is taught.

As for the sight, many people are gifted with the sight, that are not involved in masonry or anything esoteric, it actually can run in families.
Why do you think that the epsitles say to not believe Every Spirit but to test them which ones are of God? At the transfiguration Christ and the disciples with him clearly saw Moses and Elijah.

I believe that when Jesus was saying the Kingdom of heaven is at hand...he wasn't talking about something physical coming on earth, i think He was talking about the world of Spirit exists overlapping ours, it is right here now, it is just that most do not have eyes to see it...but you won't see it unless you are born again...there are a number of Christians out there, and i have met them, who actually DO see spirits...

The real church are not people who meet in a building, or say a particular set of words...but they are Born of Spirit, they were blind but now they see.

[edelweiss pirate]

I'm no fan of shamans. Not all of them can control their powers or the spirits they work with...

Sai Baba for instance..... There have been many reports of evil shamanic activity... I try to avoid the romanticised views of these things.... If things were so peachy we wouldn't be in the mess we are.

Once could argue that Masons are the Shamans of the west....

As for Rapunzel.... people who keep secrets while criticising and attacking those who want to reveal these secrets. They're part of the problem.

But your views are your own and you have a right to them of course.

Schizophrenia has long been referred to in mystical circles as 'the Shaman's illness'....

Occupational hazard.

The madman and mystic are in the same seas of existence but the mystic knows how to swim..

[rapunzel]

Bollocks. This movement is all about exposing secrets lies and corruption. You grotbags are part of that corruption!

Pity yourself, you're the one who's in the shit!

My whole history on this forum has been about exposing the mason schizophrenia inducing rituals, questioning the nature of so called 'Illumination', and about trying to coordinate people to use their untapped psychic power to change the world for the better.

I've been at it for years on this and the old forum.

You do fuck all exempt debunk good information while offering nothing yourself!

You were on the old forum I believe, at least some troll called Rapunzel was, but they got dealt with properly if I remember correctly. You're only here because this forum is more tolerant of trolls than the old one.

I know nothing about the “old forum”. I only discovered this Forum a few months ago and the only other Forum I have posted on is CARM under the name of Squirrel. You believe me to be a liar and liars are usually pretty stupid but I am not. That being so I’d hardly rejoin this Forum under an old name? Presumably by “dealt with properly” you mean the person you are talking about was expelled from the Forum.

I know very little about the masons and so refrain from discussing a subject I do not understand. If you wish to “expose” them and question the nature of illumination then go ahead but any thinking person would wish that to be done with actual, hard information and proof, not with innuendo and gossip.

As for illumination I assume it is different for every person and is also very personal. You accuse me of not opening up but may I remind you of what you have recently said on another thread?

“……………..The point is I refuse to post information in an overtly hostile environment………………. ……………My information is personal to me and I don't like being called a liar in public…………”

Ring any bells? You are my “hostile environment” and you have also called me a liar in public. Seems as if you like to dish it out but can’t take it yourself.

I am not here to give instruction in Wicca, though if anyone has questions I will answer them. But I will continue to challenge you when you make untrue allegations. You say you are here to expose lies, secrets and corruption. Good. Using lies to do so however is itself corrupt as there is no regard to the truth but perhaps you believe, along with others, that the end justifies the means.

[rhydra]

To worship Him, Our Lord Satan, and no other...
To despise all man-made religions ... and to bring contempt upon them whenever that may be
done without courting danger ... To undermine the faith of others . . . in such false
religions, wherever possible . . . and bring them to the true faith .

Sort of defeating the objective, rejecting religion at the same time starting one, in LaVeyan Satanism it's more or less satan with the small "s" which doesn't actually exist as an entity and is certainly not worshippable.

[edelweiss pirate]

Sort of defeating the objective, rejecting religion at the same time starting one, in LaVeyan Satanism it's more or less satan with the small "s" which doesn't actually exist as an entity and is certainly not worshippable.

How can you possibly know that something doesn't exist?

It's impossible, it's only conjecture. There are things which exist despite us not having seen them yet. Just because YOU haven't seen something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.