Christ

[solve_et_coagula]

CHRIST

Today people divide Christ into aspects such as "historical," "cosmic," "mystical" and so on. But Christ in his essence is one and indivisible.

There is only one Christ - the living Christ who is the manifestation of God, the manifestation of Love.

Christ is God revealing Himself to the world.

As a manifestation of God, Christ cannot be separated from Him, cannot be considered apart from Him.

And when I speak of Christ, I do not mean an abstract principle, but rather an actual incarnation of Love.

Love is the greatest reality and not an abstraction. It has form, content and meaning.

Christ - whatever conception people have of him as "historical," as "cosmic," as "mystical," - gave to the earth the fullest expression of Love.

This is because as an historic personality, as a cosmic essence, and as a mystical experience, Christ is and remains the most perfect expression of Love.

Indeed, no other man on earth before Christ had greater love than His.

There is neither in the cosmos without, nor in the mystic depths of the soul within, a fuller expression of Love than that which we personify in Christ.

Therefore, how are the words "historical," "cosmic," and "mystical" to be understood?

Manifested on the earth at a certain historical moment as the ideal man, as an example of the real man, Christ is "historical." And the times in which he lived record an bear witness to Him: "Behold, the man! Behold, the true man in whom Love, Wisdom, and Truth live, and who applies them."

When he is experienced in the inward depths, he is "mystical," and when he is comprehended and known as God manifested in the world, he is "cosmic."

The physical side of Christ is all of humanity united in one body. All human souls in which Christ lives, united into one - this is the physical aspect of Christ.

All angels, gathered into the heart of Christ, represent his spiritual aspect.

And all divine beings, united in the mind of Christ, are his divine aspect.

This is the "cosmic" Christ, God manifested in the world.

That is why the mystic sees Christ everywhere - as the great Brother of humanity, the archetype of man, the First-Born in the world, the beginning of the human race, the beginning of human evolution. The First-Born who developed and manifested all divine virtues, who applied all divine laws.

The mystic sees Christ as the First-Born who passed every trial and sacrificed all for his brothers.

Mountains, fields, springs, rivers, and seas, with all the natural wealth hidden therein - all this is an expression of this Great Brother.

But this is a great mystery, for the understanding of which thousands of years of unremitting work are necessary.

Thus does one need to conceive of Christ in his comprehensiveness.

He is One, although people consider him sometimes as "historical," sometimes as "cosmic," or as "mystical."

All these words must come to life in the true understanding of Christ as the manifested and revealed Love of God; they must not remain dry concepts, prisons for human thought.

Indeed, is not the "historical" Christ, who came to earth two thousand years ago, a prison for the minds of many Christians? Where in the Scripture did Christ two thousand years ago speak of himself as of an historical personality? He speaks of himself as Spirit, as one who will remain on earth "to the end of the ages," that is until the epoch of violence and evil, now in its last days, comes to an end.

"Go and preach," he says to his disciples, "and I shall be with you to the end of the ages."

One of the worst delusions is to think that Christ is in heaven, that he sits and waits for the Last Judgment, when he will begin to judge the living and the dead.

The truth is that Christ has never left the earth. Remember his words: "All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth."

Christ is he Who has inspired, is inspiring, and will inspire the "historical," "cosmic," and "mystical" life of the earth and humanity.

Without Christ, there could be no history.

Without Christ, there could be no "cosmos," no organized and established world.

Without Christ, there could be no "mystical" life.

He is the great inspirer of all revelations in all times. He is the unseen moving force behind the whole spiritual life of humanity.

The Scripture, in which Christ is the central figure, is a witness to this.

Christ himself hints at this with the words: "Moses and the prophets wrote about me."

Moses, in a general sense, comprises all the spiritual leaders of humanity, all scientists, philosophers, writers, poets, artists and musicians who prepare the minds of men for the understanding of Christ, the divine Truth.

However transitory their works seem, however changeable their theories, they are not arbitrary; they are created under the influence of a universal law of the Spirit, working in mankind in a special way.

All those men, therefore, worked for the manifold upliftment of humanity; they prepared the way for the coming of Christ.

It is not easy for a great Spirit such as Christ to come among men. Men had to work hard in the course of several thousand years in order that Christ might appear among them. It is not easy to come to the earth.

But with his descent to the earth, Christ opened a new epoch in the evolution of humanity. He indicated the only way by which the human soul can ascend to God.

This is why he said, "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life."

The Way: in the broadest sense of the word, this is the movement of the Spirit towards an intelligent application of the laws of Nature.

The Life: this is the harmonious organization of the elements and the development of the forces in the Divine soul.

The Truth: this is the manifestation of the One God, who creates the conditions for the development of all living beings.

Coming from the Divine world of Truth and descending to the material world, Christ connects human souls to the world of Truth, where the great aims of every life are hidden.

There must necessarily be a link to unite human souls sunken in matter, with God. Only Christ can form that link - only Christ can unite men with God.

He came down from the Divine world, bringing life from the world of Truth, and ascended back to it, and in this way he indicated the path leading from temporal life to the eternal.

"And this is life eternal," says Christ, "that they should know Thee the only true God, and him who Thou didst send Jesus Christ."

To know God is to know the seeds of the Spirit - the conditions, the powers, and the laws which sustain it, and according to which this wonderful order of things is built.

And Christ is the intelligent beginning who comes from the One God, bringing life to all beings, guiding them and sustaining them, and linking them to the initial center of all that is.

Christ is the way of this intelligent movement of souls which leads them to life eternal in Truth.

And when Christ is asked why he came to earth, he replies, "To this end was I born and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the Truth."

These words, however, are a mathematical formula. The question of the coming of Christ is one of the deepest questions in human life. Many people think that it is very easy to reply to this question. They say that Christ came to the earth in order to suffer and to save humanity.

The coming of Christ to the earth is not a matter of suffering. The suffering was a secondary occurrence in the life of Christ - it is far from determining this very important moment in the history of humanity.

Salvation, in the way in which it is usually understood, is also a partial conception of this great event.

But today, all the preachers say that Christ came to the earth to save humanity. If Christ had saved the world in such a mechanical way as people believe, and if they were truly saved, then they would not live in a way so contrary to the spirit of Christ's teaching.

Clearly, the idea of salvation has an entirely different meaning. It is not where people look for it, nor does it come mechanically as they think.

Christ brought to the earth the science of the soul. He pointed out the path by which human souls can know God and obtain eternal life.

The gate of that path is Love. He who passes through this gate will find himself on that royal road where great deeds await him.

Many great souls came to the earth before Christ, but they were unable to cope with the difficult task of uplifting humanity. Christ had to come to earth in order to solve this essential and very important problem, and to show to men a proven way by which they, too, might solve it.

Before Christ, God sent into his field his servants - the prophets and the saints - but they were not able to accomplish the task in the way in which it should have been done.

When Christ, "the Son of God," came to the earth, the workers of all of heaven united in his name in order to complete the work which had been begun.

It is written in the Gospel that "God so loved the world that he gave his only- begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him should not perish, but should have eternal life."

The Son is the Word, the Rational, the Divine, the only one who could restore harmony to the world and the connection of the human soul with God.

Christ could restore that connection, he could influence humanity as a whole, because he himself was connected with the great, mighty One.

When the Gospel speaks of the descent of the Spirit upon Jesus, it refers to the union of Jesus with the collective Spirit of the world of reason, whereby the realization of a Divine idea became possible on the earth.

This is a law on the earth - in order to accomplish the work of God, a man on the earth must unite with a being in heaven. In this case, the being was the collective divine Spirit.

From this point of view, Christ is a collective spirit. He exists as a unit and at the same time he is a collective spirit. He is the sum total of all Sons of God whose hearts and souls are fountains of life and love.

All Sons of God, united in one, all intelligent souls who live in Divine communion - all this is Christ.

The descent of Christ to the earth is the most important event in the history of humanity. It is a unique event in its content and meaning. The fundamental idea of human life is connected with it - the idea of immortality, the idea of eternal life. And the efforts of all human existence have as their ultimate goal the attaining of immortality and entering into eternal life.

"And this is life eternal," says Christ, "that they should know Thee, the only true God, and him whom Thou didst send, Jesus Christ."

Know God, and know Christ.

Did people know Christ when he appeared two thousand years ago? Do they know him today? When truth comes into the world, it is not clothed in royal garments, but rather in modest apparel.

Thus Christ appeared two thousand years ago in a simple form, in which men could not recognize him. But such are the laws of this world.

In this modest apparel, seemingly a man like all other men, even his disciples did not know Him completely. Only three of them at the transfiguration saw Christ's "face," His inner self. In this inner light they saw Him and recognized Him as he was among the angels.

For the Jews, Christ was "the son of Joseph, the son of the carpenter." For the scribes and the Pharisees, He was a blasphemer, a self-styled messiah who called himself "Son of God." He did not come from among them, He was not taught by them.

Where, in fact, did Christ study? Everything that he did testified to his wide learning. Yet, even today there are people who think that Christ was a common, uneducated person. This is not true. Christ himself, addressing his listeners, said, "If I told you earthly things and you believe not, how shall you believe if I tell you heavenly things?" When He spoke of "heavenly things," Christ referred to the great mysteries of the sun. However, He understood "earthly things" as well - He knew the Cabal, and the philosophies of the Eastern nations and of the Greeks, as well as the sciences of the time.

Indeed, Christ had no need to study in human schools. His entire earthly life was in itself objective learning for Him.

His life was a source of new experience, a field for the application of those sublime principles and great laws, whose functions He had known in the invisible world. Due to his awakened consciousness and his connection with the invisible world, Christ was always able to obtain knowledge directly therefrom.

And when He prayed, prayer was a conversation with the world of reason.

Through prayer, Christ communicated with the invisible world, with all the hierarchies there and with God. Through prayer the invisible world revealed to Christ that great lesson which He had to learn on earth, and disclosed to him the problem He had to solve in the environment of earthly life.

After having solved his difficult problem, Christ understood through experience that the only way to save humanity is through Love. Only then did He fully comprehend the profound meaning of all of his suffering.

However, to men, regardless of what they say, the sufferings of Christ, his crucifixion and his disgraceful death, still remain one of the deepest mysteries.

Why did Christ, the greatest soul that ever came to the earth, the greatest character ever manifested, why did this good, intelligent, and strong man have to undergo such a tragic death?

The Scripture says that it was thus "written" - and nothing more.

Others maintain that it was necessary for this to happen so that the world might be saved.

But Christ himself says that He came into the world to bear witness to the Truth.

One thing can be said with certainty - Christ was crucified because Love did not outwardly participate in his life. And where Love does not participate, the most severe sufferings and the greatest tragedies occur. Love does not cause them, but the competition for love creates them. Love in itself always and everywhere brings light, peace and joy.

In any case, we see that Christ's crucifixion was permitted.

On the cross Christ underwent what might be called ideological-mystical suffering, the deepest and the most intense suffering which a human soul can undergo.

He had to drink from the cup of suffering to the last drop - that cup into which were gathered all the bitter dregs of the past.

But during this profound and intensified suffering, all of the secrets of the past were disclosed to him. And conscious of the great importance of the moment, after the inner struggle in the garden of Gethsemane, Christ said, "It was for this hour that I came."

Through the great alchemy of Love, Christ converted the poisons gathered in that cup, and thus destroyed violence forever.

And indeed could not Christ - a strong man of genius who knew his high origin, who foresaw everything, who knew what was about to happen - have averted the sufferings which awaited Him? He had the choice either to call forth the "legions of angels" and with their help to annihilate both the Jewish nation and the Roman Empire - that is, to use the method of the past, Moses and Elijah's method of violence and the sword, which was the method of the old magi and adepts - or to accept the cup and the cross and to overcome them through the power of Love.

Christ chose the second, a unique experiment on earth.

And indeed, if Christ had feared the suffering, if He had eared the cross on which later He was crucified, or the nails with which He was nailed to it, or the spear with which He was pierced, He would not have provided a new and essential solution to the difficult task of uplifting the human soul. He dissolved the insults, and the lashes of the whip, and the cross, and the nails, and the spear, with the fire of Love - the only fire that can melt the weapons of violence. The experiment proved successful.

Thus Christ solved a problem upon which the future of all of humanity depended. Thus He opened the path of salvation to those suffering souls for whom He came.

For those simple but noble souls who had the courage to put their faith in Him, and not for the learned, the powerful and the religious people of His age, did Christ lay down His life so that they might live in the Love which He gave them.

Something very great is hidden in the sufferings of Christ. They constitute the hidden side of Christ's life, of which men know nothing.

And when I speak of the sufferings of Christ, two great virtues of Christ come to mind - His unprecedented patience, and His humility. Through these, He endured all the abuses, insults and offenses which men inflicted upon Him. Christ endured all of these and remained silent, calm and unmoved, as though nothing were happening. Not a tear fell from His eyes.

This is great patience, this is self-mastery, this is Love.

This is a rock which nothing can shatter.

Christ's crucifixion was a tragedy, but this tragedy had its solution in the resurrection.

Christ rose from the dead, and through his resurrection He conquered death. And as in his sufferings the secrets of the past were revealed to Him so in the resurrection He received the revelation of the future.

Christ is truly a strong man, a mighty spirit, a hero. He overcame everything - tortures, the cross and the grave.

Christ did not carry the wooden cross to the end. He carried it only to a certain place and then He laid it on the ground. People think that He laid it down because He was exhausted beneath its weight.

Christ was not a weakling. He could have carried the cross, but He laid it down in order to point out to humanity what was in store for them. He implied, "I can carry the cross of the sufferings of living men, but I do not wish to carry a wooden cross."

But present-day Christians still carry and kiss the wooden cross, disdained by Christ himself.

Having cast the wooden cross upon the ground, Christ stood up, and upright he made his way to Golgotha. They nailed him to the cross. But He did not remain there long. He alone unnailed himself. How? He left his body and went to Joseph of Arimathea.

Christ was buried and His tomb was sealed. But He also left the tomb. He did not want to leave his body in the tomb, because it was alive. He himself resurrected it.

The angel that caused his death took his soul to hell, but Christ did not remain there long. His entrance into hell caused a revolution - He activated all of hell's inhabitants and set them free. Do not think that after his resurrection Christ was alone - in hell He was the leader of a host of angels who emptied hell of all of its prisoners.

Thus Christ proved that the strong man cannot remain nailed to a cross, nor can he be sealed in a grave. The strong man never dies - he is resurrected and he gives life to others.

Christ was the heart of God, and that is why He resurrected. God's heart cannot die. It returned whence it came. But throughout all of this tragedy enacted on Golgotha, new blood was infused into the exhausted veins of humanity, and a new impulse was brought to the divine circulation of life.

When He came to the earth two thousand years ago, Christ revealed to us only one side of his nature.

We see Christ then in humiliation and grief, in sufferings and trials. We see him as a hero of redemption.

People do not yet know Christ in his glory, in his divine might and power.

Christ is strong and mighty now!

In the past, the hands of Christ were nailed. Today no one can nail these hands - the nails would be melted at once! In the past they crucified Christ, but today there is not a tree large enough on which He could be crucified.

Christ cannot be crucified a second time.

This Christ is coming now to visit the minds and hearts of men. He will demolish all prisons; He will obliterate all false teachings - everything that destroys man's mind and heart, that brings confusion and anarchy, that paralyzes human life. He is the living Christ who brings life, light and freedom to all souls, who uplifts and awakens in them love toward all.

When I say that Christ is coming now, some might think that He will come outwardly. Christ will not come outwardly, He will come neither in the form of a man, nor in any other form.

When the rays of the sun enter into your homes, does that mean that the sun itself has visited you?

Remember, Christ is e manifestation of divine Love. And He will come as an inner light in the minds and hearts of men. This light will draw all toward Christ as around a great center.

The opening of men's minds and hearts, and the inner acceptance of Christ - this will be the second coming of Christ to the earth.

If they do not accept Him in this way, people will continue to live without love, in suffering and misery, in outer beliefs, superstitions, and delusions.

Captives of those outer beliefs, many religious people today err when they say, "Christ brought good tidings two thousand years ago. He said all that He had to say, and now He has gone to heaven, where He will remain until the Day of Judgment, when He will come again to judge the living and the dead."

But I say to you: Christ did not preach the good tidings in time and space!

We do not consider Christ and His teaching as something that is past.

We do not consider Christ and His teaching as something that will come in the future.

For us, Christ and His teaching are an everlasting present!

Therefore, it was not only during his three years of reaching that Christ spoke to us; He has not ceased speaking during all of these two thousand years. And if it were possible to restore all that He said in those three years to the people of that time, and if it were possible also to restore what He said in the course of these two thousand years, men would have very valuable knowledge.

But only very little of what Christ said during those three years of preaching has come down to us - only fragments. Many of the Epistles of Paul, as well as of the other apostles, remain hidden from the world. But some day they will come to light. Even now they are being disclosed, but only to advanced pupils.

On the other hand, do you think that Christ divulged all of his teaching? In comparison with what He possessed, Christ gave very little to his contemporaries. The men of that time were not ready for science. Therefore, He spoke to them in parables. Christ did not want to put his weapon in the hands of the ignorant, so that they might turn it against Him.

Do you think that if Christ came now He would speak as He spoke two thousand years ago? Christ will speak today in an entirely different manner.

First of all, He will preach about the great science of Love, and the methods of its application. He will preach about the path of pupilage, brotherhood and service. The law of evolution requires it today.

And now the Great Master addresses himself to all awakened souls, proclaiming to them the fundamentals of the new gospel:

That all be diligent pupils,

good brothers, true and loyal servers!

Only those who are diligent pupils, good brothers, and true servers can create the new culture in which Christ will live in every man and among all people.

Today, Christ has no need of ordinary believers, religious people who fight one another, nor of rulers and priests, but rather of real men, creators of the new - pupils, brothers, and servers.
Today Christ does not want men who constantly crucify Him within themselves, but men who will welcome Him to live within them and among them, who will be one with Him.

Today, Christ proclaims a culture without crucifixions, the culture of resurrection!

We nave seen well the results of the present culture created by those who crucified Christ.

It is time for the foundations of a new culture to be laid, a culture built not by people who worship the crucified Christ, but by men-brothers in whom lives the resurrected Christ, the living Christ of Love.

The foundation of this culture will be Love.

Love is the only power that can make of men diligent pupils, good brothers, true and loyal servers, builders of the new life.

This is the "new" which Christ brings to humanity today.

This is the Word of the Great White Brotherhood; this is what the Master speaks.

And will not many believers, then, who call themselves Christians, be enticed by His word? And will they recognize Him?

They will continue to argue about the "crucified," the "historical" and the "cosmic" Christ; about the Christ as He is considered by the various churches, and the spirit of his Living Word will remain strange to them.

Therefore, I say to you: Leave aside these definitions and differentiations of Christ! Know that there is only one Christ, the Christ of great Love, who at present is active in the world and in the souls of men.

I speak to you of that Christ, and not of the "historical" or the "crucified" Christ. Men know Him well as an historical personage, but they do not know Him as Living Love.

I speak to you of the living Christ, of that Christ who has life within himself, who brings the living knowledge and light, who brings the truth and freedom; of that Christ who teaches all methods for the building of rational life.

He is the great Christ, who is called the Head of the Great Universal Brotherhood.

All great souls know Him, and they never argue about who and what He is, what He was, where He is now, what place He holds in the "hierarchy of masters," and so on.

They never argue because they know very well what place Christ has in the Whole, just as they know the place of the other great men who have appeared and are appearing in the world.

This is the Christ that men must come to know today! They must see Him - see and know Him! Many men wish to convince us that we may be true Christians without seeing and knowing Christ inwardly. But I maintain that if a man does not see Christ, nothing will come of him.

In order to see Christ, one must have a mind, a heart, a soul, and a spirit like His. All those to whom Christ appeared before they reached that stage, fell down with faces toward the ground. And what can a fallen man see?

Man must drink from the source itself and not from the river, which is muddy because many other additives entered into it.

Follow the path that leads to this source - the path is difficult and long, but you will drink living water from the spring itself, and it will refresh your mind and heart forever.

Spacious views, unseen until then, will be opened to your sight.

On that mountain where the living water flows forth, you will hear the voice of God.

Do not ask to remain there, but come down to your brothers. Come down and put into practice, like a pupil, like a brother, and like a server, the Living Word of your Heavenly Father who draws you to Him by the threads of His Love.

These threads are in the hands of Christ, the manifested God of Love.

Peter Deunov (Beinsa Douno)

http://www.beinsadouno.org/en/node/1105

[tjohn]

Er, shouldn't this be on the religion forum?

[synergy777]

christ is a title, like buddha, guru, prophet, etc

thus yeshua/jesus was his name, he was enlightend/gnosis/fully operational.

he tried to teach us the truth.

he got killed by the elite, for trying to tell us the people, the truth.

[phildee3]

christ is a title, like buddha, guru, prophet, etc



Strictly speaking, yes.
It's like the "King of Kings."

But the word is more commonly (rightly or wrongly) used to mean that which is in him - the Logos - which is what makes him the "Anointed One" (kristos).
The Logos (the active aspect of the One) is what he is made of - his essence.

Chirist was anointed at a specific time.
The Logos was born before time was. Most people call this "Christ," I think because the Logos has become Christened.

[synergy777]

Strictly speaking, yes.
It's like the "King of Kings."

But the word is more commonly (rightly or wrongly) used to mean that which is in him - the Logos - which is what makes him the "Anointed One" (kristos).
The Logos (the active aspect of the One) is what he is made of - his essence.

Chirist was anointed at a specific time.
The Logos was born before time was. Most people call this "Christ," I think because the Logos has become Christened.

how about accepting my friend requst bro, lol

[okeytokey]

im constanly suprised at the amount of people on this forum that believe in god.

[phildee3]

how about accepting my friend requst bro, lol



I have a different, old-fashioned definition of friendship than in modern cyber-culture. Don't take it personally - I don't respond to any of them.

If you're ever in Glastonbury, PM me and we'll meet up in the G&P, bro.

[synergy777]

im constanly suprised at the amount of people on this forum that believe in god.

i am constantly surpised by the amount of people who don't believe in god.

do people really believe there is no higher dimensions/nature of life, that there is no spiritual creator/designer,

do people really believe that life is random, meaningless, materialistic, shallow etc.

[synergy777]

I have a different, old-fashioned definition of friendship than in modern cyber-culture. Don't take it personally - I don't respond to any of them.

If you're ever in Glastonbury, PM me and we'll meet up in the G&P, bro.

what the g&p, hope its a pub, i love beer, lol

[flyboy]

im constanly suprised at the amount of people on this forum that believe in god.

Indoctrination - religion would have died a long time ago else. Unfortunately they can`t stop quoting their brainwashed crap and spewing their outdated fairy tales onto forum pages. I wish they would **** off - but it`s really not their fault. I blame the parents. And their parents and so on...

[rodin]

Conspicuous in its absence from the OP is the name Jesus.

Christians are in a prison?

get outa here :mad:

edit

Of course the Church is another story. Plenty adulteration there. But the source is pure

[flyboy]

christ

today people divide christ into aspects such as "historical," "cosmic," "mystical" and so on. But christ in his essence is one and indivisible.

There is only one christ - the living christ who is the manifestation of god, the manifestation of love.

Christ is god revealing himself to the world.

As a manifestation of god, christ cannot be separated from him, cannot be considered apart from him.

And when i speak of christ, i do not mean an abstract principle, but rather an actual incarnation of love.

Love is the greatest reality and not an abstraction. It has form, content and meaning.

Christ - whatever conception people have of him as "historical," as "cosmic," as "mystical," - gave to the earth the fullest expression of love.

This is because as an historic personality, as a cosmic essence, and as a mystical experience, christ is and remains the most perfect expression of love.

Indeed, no other man on earth before christ had greater love than his.

There is neither in the cosmos without, nor in the mystic depths of the soul within, a fuller expression of love than that which we personify in christ.

Therefore, how are the words "historical," "cosmic," and "mystical" to be understood?

Manifested on the earth at a certain historical moment as the ideal man, as an example of the real man, christ is "historical." and the times in which he lived record an bear witness to him: "behold, the man! Behold, the true man in whom love, wisdom, and truth live, and who applies them."

when he is experienced in the inward depths, he is "mystical," and when he is comprehended and known as god manifested in the world, he is "cosmic."

the physical side of christ is all of humanity united in one body. All human souls in which christ lives, united into one - this is the physical aspect of christ.

All angels, gathered into the heart of christ, represent his spiritual aspect.

And all divine beings, united in the mind of christ, are his divine aspect.

This is the "cosmic" christ, god manifested in the world.

That is why the mystic sees christ everywhere - as the great brother of humanity, the archetype of man, the first-born in the world, the beginning of the human race, the beginning of human evolution. The first-born who developed and manifested all divine virtues, who applied all divine laws.

The mystic sees christ as the first-born who passed every trial and sacrificed all for his brothers.

Mountains, fields, springs, rivers, and seas, with all the natural wealth hidden therein - all this is an expression of this great brother.

But this is a great mystery, for the understanding of which thousands of years of unremitting work are necessary.

Thus does one need to conceive of christ in his comprehensiveness.

He is one, although people consider him sometimes as "historical," sometimes as "cosmic," or as "mystical."

all these words must come to life in the true understanding of christ as the manifested and revealed love of god; they must not remain dry concepts, prisons for human thought.

Indeed, is not the "historical" christ, who came to earth two thousand years ago, a prison for the minds of many christians? Where in the scripture did christ two thousand years ago speak of himself as of an historical personality? He speaks of himself as spirit, as one who will remain on earth "to the end of the ages," that is until the epoch of violence and evil, now in its last days, comes to an end.

"go and preach," he says to his disciples, "and i shall be with you to the end of the ages."

one of the worst delusions is to think that christ is in heaven, that he sits and waits for the last judgment, when he will begin to judge the living and the dead.

The truth is that christ has never left the earth. Remember his words: "all power is given unto me in heaven and in earth."

christ is he who has inspired, is inspiring, and will inspire the "historical," "cosmic," and "mystical" life of the earth and humanity.

Without christ, there could be no history.

Without christ, there could be no "cosmos," no organized and established world.

Without christ, there could be no "mystical" life.

He is the great inspirer of all revelations in all times. He is the unseen moving force behind the whole spiritual life of humanity.

The scripture, in which christ is the central figure, is a witness to this.

Christ himself hints at this with the words: "moses and the prophets wrote about me."

moses, in a general sense, comprises all the spiritual leaders of humanity, all scientists, philosophers, writers, poets, artists and musicians who prepare the minds of men for the understanding of christ, the divine truth.

However transitory their works seem, however changeable their theories, they are not arbitrary; they are created under the influence of a universal law of the spirit, working in mankind in a special way.

All those men, therefore, worked for the manifold upliftment of humanity; they prepared the way for the coming of christ.

It is not easy for a great spirit such as christ to come among men. Men had to work hard in the course of several thousand years in order that christ might appear among them. It is not easy to come to the earth.

But with his descent to the earth, christ opened a new epoch in the evolution of humanity. He indicated the only way by which the human soul can ascend to god.

This is why he said, "i am the way, the truth, and the life."

the way: In the broadest sense of the word, this is the movement of the spirit towards an intelligent application of the laws of nature.

The life: This is the harmonious organization of the elements and the development of the forces in the divine soul.

The truth: This is the manifestation of the one god, who creates the conditions for the development of all living beings.

Coming from the divine world of truth and descending to the material world, christ connects human souls to the world of truth, where the great aims of every life are hidden.

There must necessarily be a link to unite human souls sunken in matter, with god. Only christ can form that link - only christ can unite men with god.

He came down from the divine world, bringing life from the world of truth, and ascended back to it, and in this way he indicated the path leading from temporal life to the eternal.

"and this is life eternal," says christ, "that they should know thee the only true god, and him who thou didst send jesus christ."

to know god is to know the seeds of the spirit - the conditions, the powers, and the laws which sustain it, and according to which this wonderful order of things is built.

And christ is the intelligent beginning who comes from the one god, bringing life to all beings, guiding them and sustaining them, and linking them to the initial center of all that is.

Christ is the way of this intelligent movement of souls which leads them to life eternal in truth.

And when christ is asked why he came to earth, he replies, "to this end was i born and for this cause came i into the world, that i should bear witness unto the truth."

these words, however, are a mathematical formula. The question of the coming of christ is one of the deepest questions in human life. Many people think that it is very easy to reply to this question. They say that christ came to the earth in order to suffer and to save humanity.

The coming of christ to the earth is not a matter of suffering. The suffering was a secondary occurrence in the life of christ - it is far from determining this very important moment in the history of humanity.

Salvation, in the way in which it is usually understood, is also a partial conception of this great event.

But today, all the preachers say that christ came to the earth to save humanity. If christ had saved the world in such a mechanical way as people believe, and if they were truly saved, then they would not live in a way so contrary to the spirit of christ's teaching.

Clearly, the idea of salvation has an entirely different meaning. It is not where people look for it, nor does it come mechanically as they think.

Christ brought to the earth the science of the soul. He pointed out the path by which human souls can know god and obtain eternal life.

The gate of that path is love. He who passes through this gate will find himself on that royal road where great deeds await him.

Many great souls came to the earth before christ, but they were unable to cope with the difficult task of uplifting humanity. Christ had to come to earth in order to solve this essential and very important problem, and to show to men a proven way by which they, too, might solve it.

Before christ, god sent into his field his servants - the prophets and the saints - but they were not able to accomplish the task in the way in which it should have been done.

When christ, "the son of god," came to the earth, the workers of all of heaven united in his name in order to complete the work which had been begun.

It is written in the gospel that "god so loved the world that he gave his only- begotten son, that whosoever believes in him should not perish, but should have eternal life."

the son is the word, the rational, the divine, the only one who could restore harmony to the world and the connection of the human soul with god.

Christ could restore that connection, he could influence humanity as a whole, because he himself was connected with the great, mighty one.

When the gospel speaks of the descent of the spirit upon jesus, it refers to the union of jesus with the collective spirit of the world of reason, whereby the realization of a divine idea became possible on the earth.

This is a law on the earth - in order to accomplish the work of god, a man on the earth must unite with a being in heaven. In this case, the being was the collective divine spirit.

From this point of view, christ is a collective spirit. He exists as a unit and at the same time he is a collective spirit. He is the sum total of all sons of god whose hearts and souls are fountains of life and love.

All sons of god, united in one, all intelligent souls who live in divine communion - all this is christ.

The descent of christ to the earth is the most important event in the history of humanity. It is a unique event in its content and meaning. The fundamental idea of human life is connected with it - the idea of immortality, the idea of eternal life. And the efforts of all human existence have as their ultimate goal the attaining of immortality and entering into eternal life.

"and this is life eternal," says christ, "that they should know thee, the only true god, and him whom thou didst send, jesus christ."

know god, and know christ.

Did people know christ when he appeared two thousand years ago? Do they know him today? When truth comes into the world, it is not clothed in royal garments, but rather in modest apparel.

Thus christ appeared two thousand years ago in a simple form, in which men could not recognize him. But such are the laws of this world.

In this modest apparel, seemingly a man like all other men, even his disciples did not know him completely. Only three of them at the transfiguration saw christ's "face," his inner self. In this inner light they saw him and recognized him as he was among the angels.

For the jews, christ was "the son of joseph, the son of the carpenter." for the scribes and the pharisees, he was a blasphemer, a self-styled messiah who called himself "son of god." he did not come from among them, he was not taught by them.

Where, in fact, did christ study? Everything that he did testified to his wide learning. Yet, even today there are people who think that christ was a common, uneducated person. This is not true. Christ himself, addressing his listeners, said, "if i told you earthly things and you believe not, how shall you believe if i tell you heavenly things?" when he spoke of "heavenly things," christ referred to the great mysteries of the sun. However, he understood "earthly things" as well - he knew the cabal, and the philosophies of the eastern nations and of the greeks, as well as the sciences of the time.

Indeed, christ had no need to study in human schools. His entire earthly life was in itself objective learning for him.

His life was a source of new experience, a field for the application of those sublime principles and great laws, whose functions he had known in the invisible world. Due to his awakened consciousness and his connection with the invisible world, christ was always able to obtain knowledge directly therefrom.

And when he prayed, prayer was a conversation with the world of reason.

Through prayer, christ communicated with the invisible world, with all the hierarchies there and with god. Through prayer the invisible world revealed to christ that great lesson which he had to learn on earth, and disclosed to him the problem he had to solve in the environment of earthly life.

After having solved his difficult problem, christ understood through experience that the only way to save humanity is through love. Only then did he fully comprehend the profound meaning of all of his suffering.

However, to men, regardless of what they say, the sufferings of christ, his crucifixion and his disgraceful death, still remain one of the deepest mysteries.

Why did christ, the greatest soul that ever came to the earth, the greatest character ever manifested, why did this good, intelligent, and strong man have to undergo such a tragic death?

The scripture says that it was thus "written" - and nothing more.

Others maintain that it was necessary for this to happen so that the world might be saved.

But christ himself says that he came into the world to bear witness to the truth.

One thing can be said with certainty - christ was crucified because love did not outwardly participate in his life. And where love does not participate, the most severe sufferings and the greatest tragedies occur. Love does not cause them, but the competition for love creates them. Love in itself always and everywhere brings light, peace and joy.

In any case, we see that christ's crucifixion was permitted.

On the cross christ underwent what might be called ideological-mystical suffering, the deepest and the most intense suffering which a human soul can undergo.

He had to drink from the cup of suffering to the last drop - that cup into which were gathered all the bitter dregs of the past.

But during this profound and intensified suffering, all of the secrets of the past were disclosed to him. And conscious of the great importance of the moment, after the inner struggle in the garden of gethsemane, christ said, "it was for this hour that i came."

through the great alchemy of love, christ converted the poisons gathered in that cup, and thus destroyed violence forever.

And indeed could not christ - a strong man of genius who knew his high origin, who foresaw everything, who knew what was about to happen - have averted the sufferings which awaited him? He had the choice either to call forth the "legions of angels" and with their help to annihilate both the jewish nation and the roman empire - that is, to use the method of the past, moses and elijah's method of violence and the sword, which was the method of the old magi and adepts - or to accept the cup and the cross and to overcome them through the power of love.

Christ chose the second, a unique experiment on earth.

And indeed, if christ had feared the suffering, if he had eared the cross on which later he was crucified, or the nails with which he was nailed to it, or the spear with which he was pierced, he would not have provided a new and essential solution to the difficult task of uplifting the human soul. He dissolved the insults, and the lashes of the whip, and the cross, and the nails, and the spear, with the fire of love - the only fire that can melt the weapons of violence. The experiment proved successful.

Thus christ solved a problem upon which the future of all of humanity depended. Thus he opened the path of salvation to those suffering souls for whom he came.

For those simple but noble souls who had the courage to put their faith in him, and not for the learned, the powerful and the religious people of his age, did christ lay down his life so that they might live in the love which he gave them.

Something very great is hidden in the sufferings of christ. They constitute the hidden side of christ's life, of which men know nothing.

And when i speak of the sufferings of christ, two great virtues of christ come to mind - his unprecedented patience, and his humility. Through these, he endured all the abuses, insults and offenses which men inflicted upon him. Christ endured all of these and remained silent, calm and unmoved, as though nothing were happening. Not a tear fell from his eyes.

This is great patience, this is self-mastery, this is love.

This is a rock which nothing can shatter.

Christ's crucifixion was a tragedy, but this tragedy had its solution in the resurrection.

Christ rose from the dead, and through his resurrection he conquered death. And as in his sufferings the secrets of the past were revealed to him so in the resurrection he received the revelation of the future.

Christ is truly a strong man, a mighty spirit, a hero. He overcame everything - tortures, the cross and the grave.

Christ did not carry the wooden cross to the end. He carried it only to a certain place and then he laid it on the ground. People think that he laid it down because he was exhausted beneath its weight.

Christ was not a weakling. He could have carried the cross, but he laid it down in order to point out to humanity what was in store for them. He implied, "i can carry the cross of the sufferings of living men, but i do not wish to carry a wooden cross."

but present-day christians still carry and kiss the wooden cross, disdained by christ himself.

Having cast the wooden cross upon the ground, christ stood up, and upright he made his way to golgotha. They nailed him to the cross. But he did not remain there long. He alone unnailed himself. How? He left his body and went to joseph of arimathea.

Christ was buried and his tomb was sealed. But he also left the tomb. He did not want to leave his body in the tomb, because it was alive. He himself resurrected it.

The angel that caused his death took his soul to hell, but christ did not remain there long. His entrance into hell caused a revolution - he activated all of hell's inhabitants and set them free. Do not think that after his resurrection christ was alone - in hell he was the leader of a host of angels who emptied hell of all of its prisoners.

Thus christ proved that the strong man cannot remain nailed to a cross, nor can he be sealed in a grave. The strong man never dies - he is resurrected and he gives life to others.

Christ was the heart of god, and that is why he resurrected. God's heart cannot die. It returned whence it came. But throughout all of this tragedy enacted on golgotha, new blood was infused into the exhausted veins of humanity, and a new impulse was brought to the divine circulation of life.

When he came to the earth two thousand years ago, christ revealed to us only one side of his nature.

We see christ then in humiliation and grief, in sufferings and trials. We see him as a hero of redemption.

People do not yet know christ in his glory, in his divine might and power.

Christ is strong and mighty now!

In the past, the hands of christ were nailed. Today no one can nail these hands - the nails would be melted at once! In the past they crucified christ, but today there is not a tree large enough on which he could be crucified.

Christ cannot be crucified a second time.

This christ is coming now to visit the minds and hearts of men. He will demolish all prisons; he will obliterate all false teachings - everything that destroys man's mind and heart, that brings confusion and anarchy, that paralyzes human life. He is the living christ who brings life, light and freedom to all souls, who uplifts and awakens in them love toward all.

When i say that christ is coming now, some might think that he will come outwardly. Christ will not come outwardly, he will come neither in the form of a man, nor in any other form.

When the rays of the sun enter into your homes, does that mean that the sun itself has visited you?

Remember, christ is e manifestation of divine love. And he will come as an inner light in the minds and hearts of men. This light will draw all toward christ as around a great center.

The opening of men's minds and hearts, and the inner acceptance of christ - this will be the second coming of christ to the earth.

If they do not accept him in this way, people will continue to live without love, in suffering and misery, in outer beliefs, superstitions, and delusions.

Captives of those outer beliefs, many religious people today err when they say, "christ brought good tidings two thousand years ago. He said all that he had to say, and now he has gone to heaven, where he will remain until the day of judgment, when he will come again to judge the living and the dead."

but i say to you: Christ did not preach the good tidings in time and space!

We do not consider christ and his teaching as something that is past.

We do not consider christ and his teaching as something that will come in the future.

For us, christ and his teaching are an everlasting present!

Therefore, it was not only during his three years of reaching that christ spoke to us; he has not ceased speaking during all of these two thousand years. And if it were possible to restore all that he said in those three years to the people of that time, and if it were possible also to restore what he said in the course of these two thousand years, men would have very valuable knowledge.

But only very little of what christ said during those three years of preaching has come down to us - only fragments. Many of the epistles of paul, as well as of the other apostles, remain hidden from the world. But some day they will come to light. Even now they are being disclosed, but only to advanced pupils.

On the other hand, do you think that christ divulged all of his teaching? In comparison with what he possessed, christ gave very little to his contemporaries. The men of that time were not ready for science. Therefore, he spoke to them in parables. Christ did not want to put his weapon in the hands of the ignorant, so that they might turn it against him.

Do you think that if christ came now he would speak as he spoke two thousand years ago? Christ will speak today in an entirely different manner.

First of all, he will preach about the great science of love, and the methods of its application. He will preach about the path of pupilage, brotherhood and service. The law of evolution requires it today.

And now the great master addresses himself to all awakened souls, proclaiming to them the fundamentals of the new gospel:

That all be diligent pupils,

good brothers, true and loyal servers!

Only those who are diligent pupils, good brothers, and true servers can create the new culture in which christ will live in every man and among all people.

Today, christ has no need of ordinary believers, religious people who fight one another, nor of rulers and priests, but rather of real men, creators of the new - pupils, brothers, and servers.
Today christ does not want men who constantly crucify him within themselves, but men who will welcome him to live within them and among them, who will be one with him.

Today, christ proclaims a culture without crucifixions, the culture of resurrection!

We nave seen well the results of the present culture created by those who crucified christ.

It is time for the foundations of a new culture to be laid, a culture built not by people who worship the crucified christ, but by men-brothers in whom lives the resurrected christ, the living christ of love.

The foundation of this culture will be love.

Love is the only power that can make of men diligent pupils, good brothers, true and loyal servers, builders of the new life.

This is the "new" which christ brings to humanity today.

This is the word of the great white brotherhood; this is what the master speaks.

And will not many believers, then, who call themselves christians, be enticed by his word? And will they recognize him?

They will continue to argue about the "crucified," the "historical" and the "cosmic" christ; about the christ as he is considered by the various churches, and the spirit of his living word will remain strange to them.

Therefore, i say to you: Leave aside these definitions and differentiations of christ! Know that there is only one christ, the christ of great love, who at present is active in the world and in the souls of men.

I speak to you of that christ, and not of the "historical" or the "crucified" christ. Men know him well as an historical personage, but they do not know him as living love.

I speak to you of the living christ, of that christ who has life within himself, who brings the living knowledge and light, who brings the truth and freedom; of that christ who teaches all methods for the building of rational life.

He is the great christ, who is called the head of the great universal brotherhood.

All great souls know him, and they never argue about who and what he is, what he was, where he is now, what place he holds in the "hierarchy of masters," and so on.

They never argue because they know very well what place christ has in the whole, just as they know the place of the other great men who have appeared and are appearing in the world.

This is the christ that men must come to know today! They must see him - see and know him! Many men wish to convince us that we may be true christians without seeing and knowing christ inwardly. But i maintain that if a man does not see christ, nothing will come of him.

In order to see christ, one must have a mind, a heart, a soul, and a spirit like his. All those to whom christ appeared before they reached that stage, fell down with faces toward the ground. And what can a fallen man see?

Man must drink from the source itself and not from the river, which is muddy because many other additives entered into it.

Follow the path that leads to this source - the path is difficult and long, but you will drink living water from the spring itself, and it will refresh your mind and heart forever.

Spacious views, unseen until then, will be opened to your sight.

On that mountain where the living water flows forth, you will hear the voice of god.

Do not ask to remain there, but come down to your brothers. Come down and put into practice, like a pupil, like a brother, and like a server, the living word of your heavenly father who draws you to him by the threads of his love.

These threads are in the hands of christ, the manifested god of love.

Peter deunov (beinsa douno)

http://www.beinsadouno.org/en/node/1105

christ! :(:(

[phildee3]

what the g&p, hope its a pub, i love beer, lol



George and Pilgrim's hotel - where you can stay in the haunted bedroom that was Henry VIII's and there's a tunnel going, from it into the abbey, under the High St.
Right in the centre - can't miss it.
Close by is the Backpacker's hostel if you can't afford a king's ransom!

One of the many legends is that after his anointing (and the horrendous Golgotha drama) Jesus came himself to built the first wooden church in honour of his mother after she left the planet and before he did.

Of course, the most popular is that James (who was the successor of Jesus and the real patriarch of the church - not Peter or Paul) sent Joseph of Arimathea, and twelve disciples, to build it.
In this scenario, Christ is just as present - as architect, builder and dedicator.

Henry VIII ordered the satanic reinactment of Calvary on the Tor using the last abbott, Richard Whiting, and the two most senior monks in order to evict Christ.
It worked, but only up to a point.

Amidst all the darkness and confusion here, the glory of Glaston is returning.

[okeytokey]

i am constantly surpised by the amount of people who don't believe in god.

do people really believe there is no higher dimensions/nature of life, that there is no spiritual creator/designer,

do people really believe that life is random, meaningless, materialistic, shallow etc.

certainly no creator/ designer....my understanding and knowledge of god comes from the bible, and i certainly cant swallow any of that, although life may be meaning less it doesnt have to be shallow or material.

[synergy777]

George and Pilgrim's hotel - where you can stay in the haunted bedroom that was Henry VIII's and there's a tunnel going, from it into the abbey, under the High St.
Right in the centre - can't miss it.
Close by is the Backpacker's hostel if you can't afford a king's ransom!

i'm not staying in any haunted hotel, but i wouldn't say in a backpackers hostel either.

isn't there any boutique/mid range hotels.

[phildee3]

i'm not staying in any haunted hotel, but i wouldn't say in a backpackers hostel either.

isn't there any boutique/mid range hotels.



Lots of B&Bs.

[truth finder]

christ is a title, like buddha, guru, prophet, etc

thus yeshua/jesus was his name, he was enlightend/gnosis/fully operational.

he tried to teach us the truth.

he got killed by the elite, for trying to tell us the people, the truth.


True very true....

[merlincove]

im constanly suprised at the amount of people on this forum that believe in god.

well, i'm constantly surprised by the amount of people who seem to percieve that humanity is a natural occurance, despit the odds.

i think people generally confuse God with religion, when infact the two are quite remote from each other. Religion is the point of control of man's hearts and minds, where God is given to the preposition that man's hearts and minds should be free of control and that man should dwell only in the beauty and purety of love.

God is all about love and nothing more.

Totally agree with the concepts of the Op, tho i didn't manage to read the entire post beyond a third of the way. I have a mind block about long posts sometimes where the genral illucidation beyond the first few lines is more of the same. No offence ment, OP.

But yeah, Christ';s energy is one we may all aspire to absorb, there would be a lot less control, fear, hatred, violence, war, crime, murder etc in this world if only we could aspire to the message of Christ.

Originally Posted by solve_et_coagula
christ

today people divide christ into aspects such as "historical," "cosmic," "mystical" and so on. But christ in his essence is one and indivisible.

There is only one christ - the living christ who is the manifestation of god, the manifestation of love.

Christ is god revealing himself to the world.

As a manifestation of god, christ cannot be separated from him, cannot be considered apart from him.

And when i speak of christ, i do not mean an abstract principle, but rather an actual incarnation of love.

Love is the greatest reality and not an abstraction. It has form, content and meaning.

Beautiful words indeed my friend

Respect.

[phildee3]

God is all about love and nothing more.



I would say God is love, and nothing less. ;)

Agree with the rest of post merlin,
and the OP - beautiful (as much of it as I read so far).

[merlincove]

I would say God is love, and nothing less. ;)

Agree with the rest of post merlin,
and the OP - beautiful (as much of it as I read so far).


:D

Was in Glastonbury last week too, would have dropped you a line had i known. We went to the Chalice well, as we were kinda in the area, having been in Wiltshire for a few days. A nice part of the world, you are lucky to have it on your doorstep.

Am i right in my understanding that myth tells that it was Joseph of Aramathea (spl?) who planted the yew's (?) at the Abbey by planting his staff into the ground there? I'd like to see those tree's, as so far i've not had chance to visist the Abbey. Was Joseph of Aramathea Jesus's uncle / Marys brother n- that is as i understand it....

[miracles]

CHRIST



Rubbish mixed up in half truths, Can you people get your own cosmic mystic religious figure please. Christ belongs to the Christian religion. Thank you very much. He is not your brother. If one wants to experience Christ then one has to damn well repent of wickedness, repent of sinfullness, confess his sins, and ask/humbly that Jesus Christ save his sorry ass.

God bless you

PS Christ is no longer on the earth. The Holy Spirit is on the earth. Doing what? Leading people to Christ. You are not Christ you are not the essences of Christ and you will never be Christ. Christ is God

[curtaincat]

This whole thread is unbelievable...

surely it belongs in the Religion Forums.

there is no such thing as Jesus Christ... he was a guy called Jesus , telling us about THE CHRIST... and he just came along to tell us that we can all be like him. we have have to find "the christ" within us... he said we can do what he did, and even better.

why do i bother?

:p

no answer needed, unless it is worth it... no more religious stuff, please.

[phildee3]

Am i right in my understanding that myth tells that it was Joseph of Aramathea (spl?) who planted the yew's (?) at the Abbey by planting his staff into the ground there? I'd like to see those tree's, as so far i've not had chance to visist the Abbey. Was Joseph of Aramathea Jesus's uncle / Marys brother n- that is as i understand it....



The story is that Joseph thrust his staff into the ground of Wirral ("wearyall") Hill and it sprouted, becoming what is now the "Glastonbury thorn" - native to Syria.
However, it can only be propogated by grafting on to a native, English Hawthorn. It's lifespan is no more than 100 years. There is one presently one on Wirral Hill , one in the abbey grounds, one in St John's churchyard and numerous others dotted around.

The yew is our longest living tree. There's one in Compton Dundon churchyard that could be (though doubtful) 2000 years old - so you can imagine the legends about that!

Joseph of Arimathea was Mary's uncle (according to legend, with a good possibility of being historical).

[flyboy]

[QUOTE=curtaincat;1227853]This whole thread is unbelievable...

surely it belongs in the Religion Forums.

Belongs somewhere...

why do i bother?

Because its too easy...:)

QUOTE]

[phildee3]

Christ belongs to the Christian religion.



Christ belongs to nobody.

We belong to him.

Everybody.



Christ is no longer on the earth.



The second coming has happened,

will happen,

and is happening!

(eschatology 101)

[flyboy]

Rubbish mixed up in half truths

Never was a truer word spoken. Get you murdered by the Muslims though for saying that as they are 'right' you know - not you. But the jews are even 'righter'. so I`m lost now. What about the methodists?

[flyboy]

Christ belongs to nobody.

We belong to him.

Everybody.



The second coming has happened,

will happen,

and is happening!

(eschatology 101)

Did you make that up? e-'shat'-ology ? come on, your having a laugh, you can tell me. I won`t tell god, promise.



Priceless

[phildee3]

Did you make that up?



I could recommend a good search engine.

Free!

[flyboy]

I could recommend a good search engine.

Free!

I could recommend something too... And that`s free also:)

[merlincove]

Rubbish mixed up in half truths, Can you people get your own cosmic mystic religious figure please. Christ belongs to the Christian religion. Thank you very much. He is not your brother. If one wants to experience Christ then one has to damn well repent of wickedness, repent of sinfullness, confess his sins, and ask/humbly that Jesus Christ save his sorry ass.

God bless you

PS Christ is no longer on the earth. The Holy Spirit is on the earth. Doing what? Leading people to Christ. You are not Christ you are not the essences of Christ and you will never be Christ. Christ is God

Rubbish mixed in half truths? Well, a half truth is a lie, so are you saying that Christ and the representation of Christ within biblical texts are lies.

Of course you aren't, i'm just using symbolic narrative to ask whether your concept of Christ is true.

Christ does not 'belong' to the Christian faith, miracles, the Christian faith is of Christ. That arguement is like saying that i belong to the house which i built - which i clearly don't.

Christ is no longer on the Earth? How do you know this, to relish it with such fact? Please prove to me that Christ is no longer on the Earth.

The son of God, the manifestation of God in this realm, has supreme power over all the controlling facets of this plain, by dint of sheer being. Christ's apprashal within biblical text gives rise to the possability that it was not an adequate portrayal of his (Christ's) life in its entirety: as biblical texts refer to 'passage's' of his life.

Could Christ have the ability to transcend earthly fixations such as time and space? Could such a transcendence gift the being of Christ with the ability to move across the fabric of time freely? Is it possable that the being that we see as Christ could be the very same being who is depicted as Horus due to an ability to bi-locate at will? And if so, is it not possable that Christ may be manifest, very much so as a physical being, here, now, on this planet.

A being of such comprehensive understanding as to be able to master such miracles as were associated with him, Christ clearly has such a capability as bi-locating at will, into whatever time period he desired to be in?


Christ does not 'belong' to the Christian faith, the Christian faith is of Christ..

Christ is not of one religion, he is not of one faith. Christ bridges faiths, Muslim, Christian, Jewish, Catholicism and more. His energy lays itself as a core teaching within many faiths.

get your own cosmic mystic religious figure please?

Eh? Does Christ not belong to one and all?

Christ is too big for any one religion to know him fully.

God bless you :D

[flyboy]

Rubbish mixed in half truths? Well, a half truth is a lie, so are you saying that Christ and the representation of Christ within biblical texts are lies.

Of course you aren't, i'm just using symbolic narrative to ask whether your concept of Christ is true.

Christ does not 'belong' to the Christian faith, miracles, the Christian faith is of Christ. That arguement is like saying that i belong to the house which i built - which i clearly don't.

Christ is no longer on the Earth? How do you know this, to relish it with such fact? Pleasee prove to me that Chrsit is no longer on the Earth.

The son of God, the manifestation of God in this realm has supreme power over all the controlling facets of this plain, by dint of sheer being. Christ's apprashal within biblical text gives rise to the possability that it was not an adequate portrayal of his (Christ's) life in entirety, as it refers to 'passage' of his life.

Could Christ have the ability to transcend earthly fixations such as time and space? Could such a transcendence gift the being of Christ the ability to move across the fabric of time freely? Is it possable that the eing that we see as Christ could be the very same being who is depicted as Horus due to his ability to bi-locate at will? And if so, is it not possable that Christ may be manifest, very much so as a physical being, here, now, on this planet.

A being of such comprehensive understanding as to be able to master such miracles as are associated with Christ gives him such a capability as bi-locating at will, into whatever time period he desired to be in?

Christ does not 'belong' to the Christian faith, the Christian faith is of Christ..

Christ is not of one religion, he is not of one faith. Christ bridges faiths, Muslim, Christian, Jewish, Catholicism and more. His energy lays itself as a core teaching within many faiths.

get your own cosmic mystic religious figure please?

Eh? Does Christ not belong to one and all?

Christ is too big for any one religion to know him fully.

God bless you :D

Yes - and don`t forget that he`s a made up fictional character...

[flyboy]

See this below

Down here I will now print the entire non-fiction version of the bible.

Ready?... There.





























Done.

[phildee3]

I will now print the entire non-fiction version of the bible.

Ready?... There.



What about the Jewish laws?
The non-fiction section in my library has loads of law books.

[merlincove]

EDIT:

Quote A being of such comprehensive understanding as to be able to master such miracles as were associated with him, Christ clearly has such a capability as bi-locating at will, into whatever time period he desired to be in?

I feel that Christ exists across time, and that time has no hold over his physical representation of being. That jesus was quite simply one aspect of Christ, and that there have been, are and possably will be others.

i feel it is possable that Christ chose to exert what has become a clearly defined aspect of his being as Jesus, as such has been written within scripture, and that every aspect of his jesus-being was understood to him before he manifested as Jesus, and i feel that every aspect as recorded of his Jesus-being was orchestrated to a design. His design.

With this in mind Jesus became the realisation of Christ, as a full potential. and here is the mirror of awakening the Christ within, which comes as a Self Realisation of being.

Such realisation is often the epochial moment of many films, again the retelling of the story for a new generation of understanding.

That Christ came into realisation and became fully aware of his Godliness, as depicted within religios texts, was always confusing to me as a child. Surely as a god he would understand that he was a god. And yet that Jesuys was a manifestation of Christ who became Self Aware seems evident.

Christ in a way then lived beyond his death, but in reality it was Jesus who died and Christ who was born from such. Mr Anderson into Neo, then for want of a metaphor.

And from that, Creator force was an essense of complete control of the rules of realty. ascension, bi-location, escaping the boundaries of time and space and becoming totally free. Existing now, as a new-being, Sananda as is his latest 'name'

appologies for going off on a bit of a tangent, but i feel thsat Christ very much has the power and ability to be here and be now, as a physical representation on this planet. Not as Jesus, for the time of Jesus was told in Jesus's time, a new time requires a new being.

Peace.

[danceswithbunnies]

Rubbish mixed in half truths? Well, a half truth is a lie, so are you saying that Christ and the representation of Christ within biblical texts are lies.

Of course you aren't, i'm just using symbolic narrative to ask whether your concept of Christ is true.

Christ does not 'belong' to the Christian faith, miracles, the Christian faith is of Christ. That arguement is like saying that i belong to the house which i built - which i clearly don't.

True that..
Too bad, most people love Christ, but it is the christless christians that turn them off.(you know about Gandhi)


Christ is no longer on the Earth? How do you know this, to relish it with such fact? Please prove to me that Christ is no longer on the Earth.

The son of God, the manifestation of God in this realm, has supreme power over all the controlling facets of this plain, by dint of sheer being. Christ's apprashal within biblical text gives rise to the possability that it was not an adequate portrayal of his (Christ's) life in its entirety: as biblical texts refer to 'passage's' of his life.

The christian that says Christ is not on the earth, is saying this because they do not have "Christ in you the hope of glory"
(Col 1:27)




Christ does not 'belong' to the Christian faith, the Christian faith is of Christ..

Christ is not of one religion, he is not of one faith. Christ bridges faiths, Muslim, Christian, Jewish, Catholicism and more. His energy lays itself as a core teaching within many faiths.

get your own cosmic mystic religious figure please?

Eh? Does Christ not belong to one and all?

Christ is too big for any one religion to know him fully.

God bless you :D

Totally..Christ isn't a religion he is The savior of all of mankind..not just those that give him lip service.
http://www.tentmaker.org/ifhellisreal.htm

[merlincove]

See this below

Down here I will now print the entire non-fiction version of the bible.

Ready?... There.

Done.

if this is your belief mr fly, then that is ok with me.

So long as you are happy.

We may all be being happy in our own little ignorances.

You may see Christ as being a doctrine of control, or you may see the Christ as being evidence of the surrender of ones personal freedoms, that to have a savior is a relenquish of self responsability - i know some who would see Christ and religions as this.

i don't know if you see it like that.

Christ is not my saviour, he is a saviour. I am my own saviour, and Christ is his own saviour. If others choose to see him as their saviour, then that is ok if that makes them happy.

Christ being the saviour of humanity is simply the awakening of Christ within - he is not taking the onus of each of us saving ourselves upon himself, but he is saying, quite simply, that he will help us to do so and find freedom with him and because of him.

But i do not ask that Christ saves me. I ask that he helps me to save myself, and see his teachings as a i would see any other teaching that helps us to better ourself.

Christ stands for love, and as has been said is love.

It is as simple as that.

don't confuse religious doctine and biblical texts with that simple context. Man wrote the bible, man created religion.

Christ is more than religion.

[phildee3]

The story is that Joseph thrust his staff into the ground of Wirral ("wearyall") Hill and it sprouted, becoming what is now the "Glastonbury thorn" - native to Syria.
However, it can only be propogated by grafting on to a native, English Hawthorn. It's lifespan is no more than 100 years. There is one presently one on Wirral Hill , one in the abbey grounds, one in St John's churchyard and numerous others dotted around.

The yew is our longest living tree. There's one in Compton Dundon churchyard that could be (though doubtful) 2000 years old - so you can imagine the legends about that!

Joseph of Arimathea was Mary's uncle (according to legend, with a good possibility of being historical).


This discussion continues on this thread:



It looks like somebody (a druid?) brought the holy thorn intentionally to propogate here.

There's also the site of a very ancient oak grove on the northwest shore of the Isle of Avalon. There are only two or three of the trees left, I think only one still alive (bearly).
Legend has it that it was planted by Joseph.

[merlincove]

cheers phili

:D

[miracles]

Christ belongs to nobody.

We belong to him.

Everybody.




Correct the gospel is for everyone. This is the Christian Biblical belief IE the gospel of the kingdom of the heavens that Christ preached. Not the new age tripe in the OP.

And funny bunny

Christ in you the hope of Glory is only somethng a Born again Chistian can claim. It only comes after repentance and confession and belief in Christ that He is who He said He was, not before. You know this as a Christian. WHich you admit your are. Christ is in me so dont start your usual crap with quoting scripture and abusing Christians it aint gonna wash hypocrite. OKAY your a back slidden christian, face the facts. Your new age cover is blown as an ex fundamental Christian which you claimed you where, there is no such thing as an ex Christian.

Christ said I must go so that the Holy Spirit can come. Read your bible again, it must have been a while. Father, Son, Spirit, they are all God in different form. Biblical Christianity 101. You like to quote it, so read it.

[phildee3]

cheers phili

:D

You're welcome.
I've got loads more stuff on this.
Drop me a PM if you're in town.

[flyboy]

if this is your belief mr fly, then that is ok with me.
Good

So long as you are happy. We may all be being happy in our own little ignorances.

You said it not me...

.

Please stop with the preaching though - it just means that my finger is getting worn out on the scroll wheel - its rubbish and I have to scroll past it you see.

[danceswithbunnies]

Correct the gospel is for everyone. This is the Christian Biblical belief IE the gospel of the kindom of the heavens that Christ preached. Not the new age tripe in the OP.

And funny bunny

Christ in you the hope of Glory is only somethng a Born again Crhistian can claim. It only comes after repentance and confession and belivf in Christ that he is who he said he was, not before. You know this as a Christian. WHich you admit your are.

Listen up ..

YOU are literally driving people away from Christ with your attitude , with your hijacking threads and shouting people down on the Religion board(reason i refuse to go back there)..you realize that force does not make you right?
Appeal to authority also does not make you right.

I will point out to you that Jesus said the way was narrow and there be few that find it..further he said the works that He did his followers would do and greater.
There is very obviously something missing from christianity or you would not be calling Christ a liar by not exhibiting the works that he did.


...i can totally understand how you feel under fire because there are so many threads attacking your position..
you obviously have chosen to preach about Christ rather than practice what he taught like turning the other cheek?
He doesn't need you to defend him you know.

[flyboy]

Listen up ..

YOU are literally driving people away from Christ with your attitude , with your hijacking threads and shouting people down on the Religion board(reason i refuse to go back there)..you realize that force does not make you right?
Appeal to authority also does not make you right.

I will point out to you that Jesus said the way was narrow and there be few that find it..further he said the works that He did his followers would do and greater.
There is very obviously something missing from christianity or you would not be calling Christ a liar by not exhibiting the works that he did.


...i can totally understand how you feel under fire because there are so many threads attacking your position..
you obviously have chosen to preach about Christ rather than practice what he taught like turning the other cheek?
He doesn't need you to defend him you know.

And thus all of the wars in history were started in this way - Arguing about one sky fairy over another sky fairy. Based on a fairy story that beggars belief. Keep it up. We can learn a lot about the needy and belief systems and the human condition here...

[miracles]

Listen up ..

YOU are literally driving people away from Christ with your attitude , with your hijacking threads and shouting people down on the Religion board(reason i refuse to go back there)..you realize that force does not make you right?
Appeal to authority also does not make you right.

I will point out to you that Jesus said the way was narrow and there be few that find it..further he said the works that He did his followers would do and greater.
There is very obviously something missing from christianity or you would not be calling Christ a liar by not exhibiting the works that he did.


...i can totally understand how you feel under fire because there are so many threads attacking your position..
you obviously have chosen to preach about Christ rather than practice what he taught like turning the other cheek?
He doesn't need you to defend him you know.

No YOU LISTEN I know your style from the religious forums and you didnt shout me down there, and you wont brow beat me here. This thread should be in the religious forums. And dont you dare say I am driving people away or lieing that I am calling Christ a liar and highjacking threads. Your infuriating.

[flyboy]

No YOU LISTEN I know your style from the religious forums and you didnt shout me down there, and you wont brow beat me here. This thread should be in the religious forums. And dont you dare say I am driving people away.

As predicted...:)

http://www.quarterlives.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/atheist-sex.jpg

http://onegoodmove.org/1gm/2007-06-02_bousquet_atheist.jpg

http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/8661/faithdi3.jpg

[miracles]

As predicted...:)

The truth is the truth pal. If people dont like it, well tough luck. :)

[phildee3]

4407



A prayer of St Brighid, who loved with the love of Christ within her:

"I will not harm the serpent, nor will the serpent harm me."

(A subsequent tradition concerns an effigy of a snake being made out of peat on February 1st. "This is the day of Brighde, the Queen shall come from the mound, I will not touch the Queen nor will the Queen touch me," thus equating Brighde with the serpent).


I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you, that ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 5:44-45

[merlincove]

if this is your belief mr fly, then that is ok with me.

So long as you are happy.

We may all be being happy in our own little ignorances.



And you seem to be very happy.

Please stop with the preaching though - it just means that my finger is getting worn out on the scroll wheel - its rubbish and I have to scroll past it you see.

Scroll away dear boy, scroll away.

Ps, remember what i said about ignorance being bliss :rolleyes:

I'm not meaning to preach. I have no wish to be a preacher.

We each have our own reality.

I'm sure there must be someojne in life who you look to and say, hey, i really like his take on things, he has a good perspective on life....

Well that is how i see Christ.

He's one of the good guys, btw

All the best to you mate - if you've read this far and not scrolled me out already

:D

[merlincove]

No YOU LISTEN I know your style from the religious forums and you didnt shout me down there, and you wont brow beat me here. This thread should be in the religious forums. And dont you dare say I am driving people away or lieing that I am calling Christ a liar and highjacking threads. Your infuriating.

Calm down mate calm down

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hhz-SPjrEaQ&feature=related

I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you, that ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 5;44-45

it's only a discussion.

[merlincove]

You're welcome.
I've got loads more stuff on this.
Drop me a PM if you're in town.

Cheers mate. can you repost the link, it has dissapeared, or pm me....

:D

[danceswithbunnies]

No YOU LISTEN I know your style from the religious forums and you didnt shout me down there, and you wont brow beat me here. This thread should be in the religious forums. And dont you dare say I am driving people away or lieing that I am calling Christ a liar and highjacking threads. Your infuriating.

No i said that you were shouting people down and hijacking their threads on the religion forum...you may be King of your own little Posse there but you should be satisfied with that and not start with people on other boards...

Which is why i am going to leave this out of respect for Solve Et Coagula...it is his thread remember?
You gonna hijack this one too?


FLYBOY WROTE:
And thus all of the wars in history were started in this way - Arguing about one sky fairy over another sky fairy. Based on a fairy story that beggars belief. Keep it up. We can learn a lot about the needy and belief systems and the human condition here...

Uhuh..i like fairies but in this case i am not arguing about fairies but the Tao.

That said?
Atheistic literalism is just as confining as biblical literalism.
Logic is also a mind made belief system.
Check out Godel sometime.

[flyboy]

And you seem to be very happy.



Scroll away dear boy, scroll away.

Ps, remember what i said about ignorance being bliss :rolleyes:

I'm not meaning to preach. I have no wish to be a preacher.

We each have our own reality.

I'm sure there must be someojne in life who you look to and say, hey, i really like his take on things, he has a good perspective on life....

If there is - and there are a few, They are real. Not fictional. Real. Your interpretation of a fictional character should remain your own personal 'truth'.
Stop preaching. Or do you think that you are doing 'gods' work?


:D

Cheers

[phildee3]

Cheers mate. can you repost the link, it has dissapeared, or pm me....



Click on my name in the left-hand column.

[merlincove]

Cheers


Stop preaching. Or do you think that you are doing 'gods' work?



nope, am just doing my work :D

trying to spread a little love, i'm sorry that you see that as preaching.

EDIT: when you post a quote reply click outside the >quote box< else it looks like i wrote it :D

[merlincove]

Click on my name in the left-hand column.

yep, gor it now mate ta :D

[supertzar]

Does anyone know if solve et coagula has ever replied to a post?

[phildee3]

Does anyone know if solve et coagula has ever replied to a post?



Same answer.
Click on the name.
Then see other posts.

[supertzar]

As far as I can tell, solve et coagula has never once replied to a post. solve et coagula only ever posts once in a thread and it is always a cut 'n' paste. Buyer beware.

[coco]

As far as I can tell, solve et coagula has never once replied to a post. solve et coagula only ever posts once in a thread and it is always a cut 'n' paste. Buyer beware.

That is his style. He did/does that on Pravda as well. Maybe he prefers to have the information focused upon rather than himself.

I will say that once on Pravda, last year I think, he did respond to a remark I made on a thread of his. Otherwise I think he would rather remain largely anonymous.

[merlincove]

he can't have made 905 threads already?

But it looks that way

:eek:

[phildee3]

As far as I can tell, solve et coagula has never once replied to a post. solve et coagula only ever posts once in a thread and it is always a cut 'n' paste. Buyer beware.



What's wrong with that?
At least he always credits the source, which is more than can be said for some.

If he actually reads everything he posts, he has no time to write!

[supertzar]

What's wrong with that?
At least he always credits the source, which is more than can be said for some.

If he actually reads everything he posts, he has no time to write!

To me it smacks of spam, if not disinfo.

[phildee3]

To me it smacks of spam, if not disinfo.



You don't have to eat everything that's served you.
Take what you like and leave the rest.

[supertzar]

You don't have to eat everything that's served you.
Take what you like and leave the rest.

That's true. Somehow solve_et_coagula's posts never seem to resonate with me. I am only posting on this thread to point out the, shall we say anomalous forum use of solve_et_coagula.

[phildee3]

That's true. Somehow solve_et_coagula's posts never seem to resonate with me. I am only posting on this thread to point out the, shall we say anomalous forum use of solve_et_coagula.



Variety is the spice of life!

[miracles]

No i said that you were shouting people down and hijacking their threads on the religion forum...you may be King of your own little Posse there but you should be satisfied with that and not start with people on other boards...

Which is why i am going to leave this out of respect for Solve Et Coagula...it is his thread remember?
You gonna hijack this one too?


FLYBOY WROTE:


Uhuh..i like fairies but in this case i am not arguing about fairies but the Tao.

That said?
Atheistic literalism is just as confining as biblical literalism.
Logic is also a mind made belief system.
Check out Godel sometime.


King of my own little possy HAH? I am despised by all. I have no respect for the new age gobbeldy gook in the OP, and I have posted my views on it, if thats is jacking in your book then look out for the bomb under you seat.

[miracles]

4407



A prayer of St Brighid, who loved with the love of Christ within her:

"I will not harm the serpent, nor will the serpent harm me."

(A subsequent tradition concerns an effigy of a snake being made out of peat on February 1st. "This is the day of Brighde, the Queen shall come from the mound, I will not touch the Queen nor will the Queen touch me," thus equating Brighde with the serpent).


I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you, that ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 5:44-45

Okay I'll pray for you. :D Love Miracles.

[deem]

Praise Jebus!:D

[jason sands]

Believers in Jesus tend to talk big. When it comes down to proving just how great their supposed faith is they always tend to come up short.

They will talk up and down about how all things are possible with Christ Jesus, but can't prove their talk is more than empty words.

It's Jesus blah, blah, blah with them :cool:

[miracles]

Believers in Jesus tend to talk big. When it comes down to proving just how great their supposed faith is they always tend to come up short.

They will talk up and down about how all things are possible with Christ Jesus, but can't prove their talk is more than empty words.

It's Jesus blah, blah, blah with them :cool:

Says the man with the top of his skull missing and his brain replaced with a helicopter landing pad. Nice. :D

[danster82]

im constanly suprised at the amount of people on this forum that believe in god.

common stop being so simple okey. Firstly what exactly is it that you dont believe in? You see you have an image of God that you dont beleive people can beleive in and its true I dont beleive in your image of God anymore than you do and most likley for the same reasons, But God is not an image and its not a belief.

So your sitting on your chair arent you? seeing a screen touching a keyboard no? whats not to believe about this?

[miracles]

CHRIST
http://www.beinsadouno.org/en/node/1105


http://www.beinsadouno.org/sites/default/files/abessive_logo.jpg (http://www.beinsadouno.org/)White Brotherhood Society - BULGARIA

This looks like some sort of illumanti brotherhood site to me folks.

[phildee3]

This looks like some sort of illumanti brotherhood site to me folks.



Believe me, as a top-secret society the illuminati brotherhood don't communicate through websites for all to see.

http://www.beinsadouno.org/en/node/1105

[merlincove]

King of my own little possy HAH? I am despised by all. I have no respect for the new age gobbeldy gook in the OP, and I have posted my views on it, if thats is jacking in your book then look out for the bomb under you seat.

Miracles....

one thing that strikes me about some of your posts is that they seem to embody a certain attitude of aggresiveness in the face of aspects you can not fully appreciate in others' comprehensions of Christ as a being of light and love.

I've not read a whole lot of your posts within the religious threads - i don't tend to voyage there so often as i'm not so up on the whole concept of discussing the relative rights and wrongs of one persons faith versus anothers, you know religion shouldn't be about fighting with each other, i'm sure that you will agree.

You have 'no respect for new age gobledy gook,' which is cool. It can sometimes get very hollier than thou, i agree. And its porponants can be a pain in the A sometimes, preaching one thing and doing another - but you'll get that within most churches too.

But the 'new age' concepts of Christ seem to be a homage to Christ's message of love and peace, what is wrong with that?

I see here a beautiful discourse on the light of an individual whose name has changed the way mankind percieves itself. A discourse on the love and beauty of divine intervention as a sheapherd for understanding conceptions of morality and equality between men. This was Christ's message. This was the original discourse / OP.

And yet somehow the message of Christ, whether being adorned by a Christian or 'new ager' seems to have become a vehicle for one mans ego over another.

I'm not fully sure what a new ager is, btw. There seems to be a broader cross over across opinion and i'm sure there isn't a generic doctrine to adhere to within new age concepts beyond the acceptance of a message of peace maybe.

You profess a great faith in Christ, and wear ther badge of Chritianty with pride, and yet choose to admonish others for seeing Christ in a different light to the one that your faith describes. You do indeed shout others down for not having the same opinion.

Someone was right, fly boy, i think, when he said that the concepts of ones understanding compared to anothers are the concepts that lead to war.

You would think that we would be able to understand that here?

That christ is the son of God and that he is a prophet - this one distinction has led to more blood to be shed upon the earth's soil than any other.

And yet we still find time to argue and bring negativity to bare in what is basically little more than the understanding of a something beautiful.

Many 'new agers' - those who you profess to have a gobledy gook faith, work with christ consciousness on a daily basis. And yet many who profess themselves to be Christians through sheer dint of attending church once a week have no conception of the love of Christ.

Who are you to declare anothers faith wrong, or gobeldy gook, or whatever? Who are you to do so, as a Christian. And in doing so, as a Christian, you are doing so in the name of Christ. Who or what gives you authority over another?

Self righteousness earns a man no score, the love of Christ exists within the hearts of those who hold his teachgings and his message dear. Whether they are christians or not. It exists in the hearts of those who profess to bring the love of Christ to their fellow brothers and sisters no matter what the creed, colour or religion of their brothers and sisters.

The love of Christ is not something to be force fed through the spouting of scripture and declaration of faith and righteousness above another, it is something to be offered freely, without constraint and without pressure. And when it is offered freely, then one can choose to accept what is offered or not without any threat of condemnation or ridicule.

Christ is not of Chritianty, Christianity is of Christ.

Would Christ welcome the aspects of rejection you put forward so readilly in his name? Would Christ admonish another for endearing his love in their hearts and not being a part of the Christian church?

Would Christ see fit to draw lines of equality and seperate those who find peace and joy in his name? Would he judge one man above another?

Now look at those last few lines and ask would 'miracles' do the same.

:D

I'm not having a go, but i wonder why people choose to fight, in the name of Christ, and bare his name as having only one true faith while all other faiths are wrong.

'Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.'

i don't think we need to be arguing who loves Christ the most, Christians or 'new agers,' and arguing who can have Christ as a figurehead of their understanding of love. Christ is big enough to be shared.

None here has the right to declare anothers thinking / belief / faith as right or wrong, because we are all equal beings.

i Just wonder why you get so aggrieved at others' conceptions of Christ?

You say things like God Bless You and I'll pray for you with attitudes of demonishment, as though it is a ridicule.

There is no need for us to fight here, let each man accept Christ in their own way, or not, as the choice may be, but please can we have a little less of the judgemental attuitudes? The world has had enough of those already

Regards to you.

[miracles]

Miracles....

one thing that strikes me about some of your posts is that they seem to embody a certain attitude of aggresiveness in the face of aspects you can not fully appreciate in others' comprehensions of Christ as a being of light and love.

I've not read a whole lot of your posts within the religious threads - i don't tend to voyage there so often as i'm not so up on the whole concept of discussing the relative rights and wrongs of one persons faith versus anothers, you know religion shouldn't be about fighting with each other, i'm sure that you will agree.

You have 'no respect for new age gobledy gook,' which is cool. It can sometimes get very hollier than thou, i agree. And its porponants can be a pain in the A sometimes, preaching one thing and doing another - but you'll get that within most churches too.

But the 'new age' concepts of Christ seem to be a homage to Christ's message of love and peace, what is wrong with that?

I see here a beautiful discourse on the light of an individual whose name has changed the way mankind percieves itself. A discourse on the love and beauty of divine intervention as a sheapherd for understanding conceptions of morality and equality between men. This was Christ's message. This was the original discourse / OP.

And yet somehow the message of Christ, whether being adorned by a Christian or 'new ager' seems to have become a vehicle for one mans ego over another.

I'm not fully sure what a new ager is, btw. There seems to be a broader cross over across opinion and i'm sure there isn't a generic doctrine to adhere to within new age concepts beyond the acceptance of a message of peace maybe.

You profess a great faith in Christ, and wear ther badge of Chritianty with pride, and yet choose to admonish others for seeing Christ in a different light to the one that your faith describes. You do indeed shout others down for not having the same opinion.

Someone was right, fly boy, i think, when he said that the concepts of ones understanding compared to anothers are the concepts that lead to war.

You would think that we would be able to understand that here?

That christ is the son of God and that he is a prophet - this one distinction has led to more blood to be shed upon the earth's soil than any other.

And yet we still find time to argue and bring negativity to bare in what is basically little more than the understanding of a something beautiful.

Many 'new agers' - those who you profess to have a gobledy gook faith, work with christ consciousness on a daily basis. And yet many who profess themselves to be Christians through sheer dint of attending church once a week have no conception of the love of Christ.

Who are you to declare anothers faith wrong, or gobeldy gook, or whatever? Who are you to do so, as a Christian. And in doing so, as a Christian, you are doing so in the name of Christ. Who or what gives you authority over another?

Self righteousness earns a man no score, the love of Christ exists within the hearts of those who hold his teachgings and his message dear. Whether they are christians or not. It exists in the hearts of those who profess to bring the love of Christ to their fellow brothers and sisters no matter what the creed, colour or religion of their brothers and sisters.

The love of Christ is not something to be force fed through the spouting of scripture and declaration of faith and righteousness above another, it is something to be offered freely, without constraint and without pressure. And when it is offered freely, then one can choose to accept what is offered or not without any threat of condemnation or ridicule.

Christ is not of Chritianty, Christianity is of Christ.

Would Christ welcome the aspects of rejection you put forward so readilly in his name? Would Christ admonish another for endearing his love in their hearts and not being a part of the Christian church?

Would Christ see fit to draw lines of equality and seperate those who find peace and joy in his name? Would he judge one man above another?

Now look at those last few lines and ask would 'miracles' do the same.

:D

I'm not having a go, but i wonder why people choose to fight, in the name of Christ, and bare his name as having only one true faith while all other faiths are wrong.

'Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.'

i don't think we need to be arguing who loves Christ the most, Christians or 'new agers,' and arguing who can have Christ as a figurehead of their understanding of love. Christ is big enough to be shared.

None here has the right to declare anothers thinking / belief / faith as right or wrong, because we are all equal beings.

i Just wonder why you get so aggrieved at others' conceptions of Christ?

You say things like God Bless You and I'll pray for you with attitudes of demonishment, as though it is a ridicule.

There is no need for us to fight here, let each man accept Christ in their own way, or not, as the choice may be, but please can we have a little less of the judgemental attuitudes? The world has had enough of those already

Regards to you.

As she casts a few stones my way. ehem. (have you always been a moderator, I never noticed before??)

Okay, the thing is, Christianity/Christ, is biblical. the OP is not, so therfore why does he have to use the name of Christ for this specific love and light and peace and mung beans and what have you, why not buhda consciousness, why not mohamad consciousness, why not ghandi consciounsess, or Krishna consciouness or John Lennon Conciousness Or Icke consciousness.

Yes I ask you why? What is the answer to that? What is christ consciousness?

How about I started a movement of Icke consciousness, using Ickes name without permission, whilst at the time arse about faceing everything Icke tried to teach and convey to people. His followers wouldnt be very happy and I dare say neither would He.

Christianity is a way the truth and the life taught in the bible. Christ consciousnes is not. So stop plagursing the name of the Christian God.

Thats my view and opinion, and Im sticking to it. Yes it doesnt make alot of peace love and light freinds along the way. Well Im not here to make friends, Im here to win souls (if I can). Christ came to seek and to save souls, and He does that. Christ consciousness does not. It is a very self centered belief that we are Christ and Christ was just an example, nothing could be further form the truth.

It's blasphemy and it annoys me. Particularly wen the same Chirst Conscious types, rail against the bible and Christians.

I might come accross as agressive, well if you read some of the religous threads, you might find out why, I never start the agro.

People are allowed to believe what they like, but why do they have to use the Lords name in vein.

The message preached by John the baptist, Christ and all the deciples and apostles was and is Repent for the kingdom of the heavens is at hand. Go into all nations preaching this gospel and baptising in the name of the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit. Christ said you must be born again. Why? Because of the sinfull condition. Christ Consciousness says you are Christ like, what? No sin? What I am God?? Sorry I put it you that people who preach Christ consciousness are in actual fact preaching a false gospel. This is serious stuff.

Warmest Regards

[phildee3]

Okay, the thing is, Christianity/Christ, is biblical.



The Bible is not the source of Christianity.

Christianity is the source of the Bible (well, five or six of its books at least).



Christianity is a way the truth and the life taught in the bible.



No. Christianity is the way taught by Jesus Christ.

The Bible has been worked and reworked dozens of times. Edited, added to, subtracted from, distorted to fit the agenda of tyrants, translated and mistranslated, twisted and misrepresented.

Not to say you can't find some holy morsel in the bottom of the trash can!

[rodin]

The Bible is not the source of Christianity.

Christianity is the source of the Bible (well, five or six of its books at least).



No. Christianity is the way taught by Jesus Christ.

The Bible has been worked and reworked dozens of times. Edited, added to, subtracted from, distorted to fit the agenda of tyrants, translated and mistranslated, twisted and misrepresented.

Not to say you can't find some holy morsel in the bottom of the trash can!

Well put

Anyone calling out the evil elite so precisely from a range of 2000 years gets my vote as a 'truther' worth paying attention to

[merlincove]

Anyone calling out the evil elite so precisely from a range of 2000 years gets my vote as a 'truther' worth paying attention to

Jesus was the original truther?

well i can dig that one.

Seems that John the baptist was at the head of his game too.

:D

[miracles]

The Bible is not the source of Christianity.

Christianity is the source of the Bible (well, five or six of its books at least).



No. Christianity is the way taught by Jesus Christ. Of which we read in the bible

The Bible has been worked and reworked dozens of times. Edited, added to, subtracted from, distorted to fit the agenda of tyrants, translated and mistranslated, twisted and misrepresented.

Not to say you can't find some holy morsel in the bottom of the trash can! ANd still preseved intact by God after all that Miraculous isnt it.

Pagan trash.

Through Christ all things have come about. The word of God is Christ. All 66 books. 6 you say HAH??? Delusional.

[rapunzel]

Pagan trash.

I thought you Christians had got above using "Pagan" as a word of abuse. Seems I am mistaken.

How about some evidence for why you regard this as trash?

[miracles]

Jesus was the original truther?

well i can dig that one.

Seems that John the baptist was at the head of his game too.

:D
Are you going to anwer my Questions? I answered yours.

What is this Christ Consciousness malarky then?

[miracles]

I thought you Christians had got above using "Pagan" as a word of abuse. Seems I am mistaken.

How about some evidence for why you regard this as trash?
Youve seen all my evidence and ignored it. You use "you Christians" as a term of abuse, Duley noted.

The druid Phidee says 6 of the 66 books of the bible contain some truth at the bottom of a trash can. To call him a Pagan is being nice. And yes you are generally always mistaken.

[miracles]

Well put

Anyone calling out the evil elite so precisely from a range of 2000 years gets my vote as a 'truther' worth paying attention to
HUH? That made a loto of sense. NOT, care to explain what you mean by that, since you are responding to a response made to me??

[merlincove]

Are you going to anwer my Questions? I answered yours.

What is this Christ Consciousness malarky then?

Christ consciousness?

From my own perspective, Christ Consciousness is allowing the consciousness of the loving Christ into your heart without getting tangled in in biblical concepts as written by men. It's like believing in Christ without taking on board the concepts of control that some see as an inherantv factor within the church. Although this is just my very humble opinion and one i am sure other 'new agers' may not wholly agree with.

Sorry, miracles, i must have missed yr question :rolleyes:

[phildee3]

The druid Phidee says 6 of the 66 books of the bible contain some truth at the bottom of a trash can.



No I didn't.
I said that at least six of the books in the Bible are Christian,

and that some morsels of truth might be be found throughout the Bible (even in the Jewish stuff - which is most of it).


I am honored to be called druid by yourself.
Not sure if I'm that high ranking though. ;)

[miracles]

Christ consciousness?

From my own perspective, Christ Consciousness is allowing the consciousness of the loving Christ into your heart without getting tangled in in biblical concepts as written by men. It's like believing in Christ without taking on board the concepts of control that some see as an inherantv factor within the church. Although this is just my very humble opinion and one i am sure other 'new agers' may not wholly agree with.

Sorry, miracles, i must have missed yr question :rolleyes:

Well thats a reasonable crack at explaining it, however if words hadn't been written down and recorded by men as to the teachings of Christ and His life: you would never have heard of Christ.

So I maintain that Christs teachings come from the bible, which has also been irrefutably proven to have been written by a superior mathematical divine mind through men AKA God. So if God is involved in its production, one can then be assured that it is more than just an ordinary book written by men and misinterpreted throughout the ages. I maintain that it has remained in tact inspite of copious attempts to destroy it and the believers in it, some 70,000,000 of them at last count.

The need for God's word to be written down, is purely to stop people from making up their own religion and twisting what God really means (which is what the cults reigiposnm and couterfeit christians do). But becuase the word is preserved we can see who is lieng and who is telling th truth, because the bible is absolute truth. And it is alie to state otherwise, particularly without asceric of evidence. Ive seen none in year of being on this site

The so called elite, did not write the bible at all. This is the biggest amount of disinformation since evolution.

If so, prove it.

I have already proven that God wrote it through men, so you must first prove that God was not involved and then prove that the elite wrote it.

I'll hang round and wait for a few decades for you to do that.

Nity nite :D

[miracles]

No I didn't.
I said that at least six of the books in the Bible are Christian,

and that some morsels of truth might be be found throughout the Bible (even in the Jewish stuff - which is most of it).


I am honored to be called druid by yourself.
Not sure if I'm that high ranking though. ;)

Same difference no matter how you spin it in your word mincer Phildee.

[merlincove]

Well thats a reasonable crack at explaining it, however if words hadn't been written down and recorded by men as to the teachings of Christ and His life: you would never have heard of Christ.

So I maintain that Christs teachings come from the bible

I'll hang round and wait for a few decades for you to do that.

Nity nite :D

One of my earliest memories, which i have spoken about elsewhere, is of comuning with a being who i later came to understand is my Guide. I am talking pre-walking age here, i would often wake up and see my Guide sitting beside me at night, he was a constant companion. He told me many stories in my early pre-school years.

One of those stories as i have sinse discovered, only a few years ago as it happens, came from the Qoran and is not in the bible. It is the story of Jesus and his friends making bird figures from the clay at the side of the river when they were children. The story says that Jesus blew on the figures he'd made and they came to life and flew away.

Some of my earliest memories are of journeying withg my Guide, and being told stories of Christs life on Earth. My Guide, btw, is Aborigine and not in any way linked to the Christian faith as far as i am aware. He has shown me many things, not soleley of his culture but of many others: Native American, Asian for example.

A few years ago i decided to research the story of jesus creating the animals in the way i was shown and discovered that such was a story ommited fom the bible altho included in the Qoran, it is one of three stories recorded from the early life of Jesus.

i had not been taught any biblical teaching from the bible, and yet i was absolutely aware of the life of a man who walked in this realm through a blessed interaction with a being not requisant of any church or school in the real world.

So, even without reading, or being schooled in the words of man, as recorded and set down by man, i was aware of the existance of a man called Jeshuai as an enlightened being with a direct conection with sourse. I couldn't, at the time of telling, create joinder between Him and the biblical Jesus, as i had never heard nor seen the bible.

Understanding is the ability to connect to Truth without the intervention of a medium in which to do so.

We do not need these hollow testamonies to a great being to believe, for belief exists within, at a deep and profound level of being, where we are schooled by the very masters that these works of man pertain to.

:D

[merlincove]

EDIT to above

i was not bought up in a religious hosehold, by the way. I was not taught bible stories until i was perhaps five years old or so, and this was in the early 70's. there is absolutely no way that i would have been aware of any stories from the Qoran through tv media or parental interaction, and nor would such have been taught in a CoE school in the early 70's.

Just thought i'd include that to show the clarirty of my memories in this matter. The story i have recounted here and elsewhere in the threads could not have come from any other sourse than my Guide.

:D

[truedruid]

God is the original CCTV, invented to spread the fear that a Love entity that murders on a holocust degree is watching your every move, even in the toilet.
Jesus was invented to spread the word of non violence to stop the pagans up roaring. Telling the story of a man who became King by not fighting, you know a good King one that rules with kindness. The romans need their best warriors on the front line not in the Colosseums. non fighting slaves were better than ones that killed the gladiator, which gave the reward of freedom.

Still to this day we believe that wars can be won with a peaceful protest, jesus won by be hung on a cross and has spread the word ever since.

There is no proof of christ, so why believe in something that has no proof of existence. especially one that teaches you to drop your arms in a fight and allow your enemy to hang you.

Christ was invented by the elite

[phildee3]

The story i have recounted here and elsewhere in the threads could not have come from any other sourse than my Guide.



It is true that "Christ is the only way"!

However, it is us who are limited to the one way to G_d - not Christ.

He can come to us in any of the many translations of scripture.
He can come to us in any af the many scriptures.
He can come to us through visions.
He can come to us through the kindness of a stranger.
He can come to us on the soft caress of a sunbeam, through the beauty of a flower, the shape of the clouds or the sound of the ocean.
He can come to us through any one of the many avatars that have appeared through the ages -
or directly through the heart.

[emerald]

Shouldnt this thread be moved to the Religion section?

[deafbred]

Ah, im loving the thought of people being put in their place, and the people who had their shoes stolen, given back their shoes, so they can walk freely again, without constantly being stalked blocked and barked at by dogs with false hollow songs

[merlincove]

Shouldnt this thread be moved to the Religion section?

It's big enough to live out in the religion threads me thinks :D

[miracles]

One of my earliest memories, which i have spoken about elsewhere, is of comuning with a being who i later came to understand is my Guide. I am talking pre-walking age here, i would often wake up and see my Guide sitting beside me at night, he was a constant companion. He told me many stories in my early pre-school years.

One of those stories as i have sinse discovered, only a few years ago as it happens, came from the Qoran and is not in the bible. It is the story of Jesus and his friends making bird figures from the clay at the side of the river when they were children. The story says that Jesus blew on the figures he'd made and they came to life and flew away.

Some of my earliest memories are of journeying withg my Guide, and being told stories of Christs life on Earth. My Guide, btw, is Aborigine and not in any way linked to the Christian faith as far as i am aware. He has shown me many things, not soleley of his culture but of many others: Native American, Asian for example.

A few years ago i decided to research the story of jesus creating the animals in the way i was shown and discovered that such was a story ommited fom the bible altho included in the Qoran, it is one of three stories recorded from the early life of Jesus.

i had not been taught any biblical teaching from the bible, and yet i was absolutely aware of the life of a man who walked in this realm through a blessed interaction with a being not requisant of any church or school in the real world.

So, even without reading, or being schooled in the words of man, as recorded and set down by man, i was aware of the existance of a man called Jeshuai as an enlightened being with a direct conection with sourse. I couldn't, at the time of telling, create joinder between Him and the biblical Jesus, as i had never heard nor seen the bible.

Understanding is the ability to connect to Truth without the intervention of a medium in which to do so.

We do not need these hollow testamonies to a great being to believe, for belief exists within, at a deep and profound level of being, where we are schooled by the very masters that these works of man pertain to.

:D

Thank you for sharing that story, but at the risk of offending you, I have to say that ones personal experiences do not count as evidence. Also I am not going to get into the subject of your guide, because I will not be able to without offending you, and I would rather not do that. :)

[miracles]

Christ was invented by the elite

Prove it.

[miracles]

Ah, im loving the thought of people being put in their place, and the people who had their shoes stolen, given back their shoes, so they can walk freely again, without constantly being stalked blocked and barked at by dogs with false hollow songs

Oh? And what do you mean by that?

[miracles]

It is true that "Christ is the only way"!

However, it is us who are limited to the one way to G_d - not Christ.

He can come to us in any of the many translations of scripture.
He can come to us in any af the many scriptures.
He can come to us through visions.
He can come to us through the kindness of a stranger.
He can come to us on the soft caress of a sunbeam, through the beauty of a flower, the shape of the clouds or the sound of the ocean.
He can come to us through any one of the many avatars that have appeared through the ages -
or directly through the heart.

Can he come to us in the form of an aboriginal spirit guide expounding the wisdom of the Quran?

[merlincove]

Can he come to us in the form of an aboriginal spirit guide exponding the wisdom of the Quran?

He could if you chose to allow him. Teachers come in many guises, who are we to deny oursleves the wisdom of the sages? All it takes is an open mind. :D

Please feel free to expound, i'll try not to be offended :cool:

I have to say that ones personal experiences do not count as evidence.

What better evidence for the Self than a personal and direct comune that has proven to have spoken in truth and beauty? When i put the story to test, by researching it through the bible and Quoran, many years after it's telling, it was shown to be as Truth. Although i didn't need such confirmation, i knew that it was true in my heart and my experience of that moment.

[deafbred]

Oh? And what do you mean by that?

=justice, ie: people getting what they deserve, whether it be shame or condemnation or reward.

[miracles]

He could if you chose to allow him. Teachers come in many guises, who are we to deny oursleves the wisdom of the sages? All it takes is an open mind. :D

Please feel free to expound, i'll try not to be offended :cool:

I have to say that ones personal experiences do not count as evidence.

What better evidence for the Self than a personal and direct comune that has proven to have spoken in truth and beauty? When i put the story to test, by researching it through the bible and Quoran, many years after it's telling, it was shown to be as Truth. Although i didn't need such confirmation, i knew that it was true in my heart and my experience of that moment.

Personal experience is evidence enough for the person, but not for anyone else, I mean if evidence for salvation through Christ for example, was down to the personal testimony of millions of Christians through out history, then no one would be excused for not beliving this evidence, do you see my point?

So we have creation and the bible as evidence for God. Not what some one states about their own person faith or belief inlcuding that of encounters with spirit guides and or a born again experience of say a Christian, or an awakening experience with a bolt of lightening or whatever.

I wouldnt trust pastor in the so called church who said, :"the lord said this to me, and this is what you should do" (th epnetcostal church is full of this hoku spikus nonsense) any nore than I would trust what you say your spiirit gude told you. I think you get my point.

I find it interesting that your "guide" led you to the Quran and not the bible.

I do not accept the Quran as Gods word. Islam is the biggest cult on earth IMO. It is satanic IMO so this will give you an inkling as to what I think your guide is. (Im sorry I dont mean to offend) this is my belief.

The Holy Spirit is the only spirit that can be trusted and the Holy SPirit is invisible and guides the spirit internally through the word of God, and other forms of spirit guide, is very suspect, and I dare I say dangerous.

[miracles]

=justice, ie: peope getting what they deserve, whether it be shame or condemnation or reward.

I know what justice means. I was asking what you meant in the context of your post within the contect of the thread conversation? I dint quite follow what you are getting at? Dogs barking and howling etc, what do you mean? Is it a parable?

[merlincove]

I find it interesting that your "guide" led you to the Quran and not the bible.

I do not accept the Quran and not the bible. Islam is the biggest cult on earth. It is satanic, so this will give you an inkling as to what I think your guide is. (Im sorry I dont mean to offend) this is my belief.

The Holy Spirit is the only spirit that can be trusted and the Holy SPirit is invisible and guides the spirit internally through the word of God, and other forms of spirit guide, is very suspect, and I dare I say dangerous.

Yes i do see your point.

My Guide didn't 'lead' me to the Quoran. My Guide told and showed me many stories, the one i have recounted is a single example, and one that affords itself as an anchor toward the understanding that my conception of Christ did not pour forth from scriptural texts, be those texts Quoran or bible. My Guide allowed me to form a great understanding of Christ.

The Quoran is not an emersing journey into satanism, it is collection of books of which the bible is but one segment.

Quote from wiki:

The Qur'an assumes familiarity with major narratives recounted in Jewish and Christian scriptures, summarizing some, dwelling at length on others, and, in some cases, presenting alternative accounts and interpretations of events.[20][21][22]. The Qur'an describes itself as book of guidance. It rarely offers detailed accounts of specific historical events, and often emphasizes the moral significance of an event over its narrative sequence

That doesn't sound very satanic to me.

As far as i am aware the Quoran is a book of love, although having never studied it i am only surmising from what others have told me. Like may pure things it too has been taken by evil men and its words manipulated to form hatred in the hearts of weak minded men, and thus has ensued extremist views and policy. but such men who would blaspheme the works of beauty are very much in the minority.

My Guide has led me into great understandings and i trust his words as i trust my own.

Many Christians will speak of visitations unto the men of scripture, indeed the most famous of all is that of Gabriel appearing before Mother Mary to usher in the consciousness of God among men. This is a widely recounted story and is versed to such a degree that you yourself puprport it as absolute truth.

Gabriel is the Messenger of God.

And there are many accounts within scripture of man / woman being visited upon by Angels and the such.

So what difference do you see in my story of a profound visitation, and the visitations as depicted in scripture and alluded to by men with pens?

Am i somehow less worthy do you think than these men?

Perhaps, but i am sure that you can get my point?

My Guide is far from satanic. He asks naught of me, and yet he brings to me great understanding, without cost or threat or lure.

:cool:

EDIT: My Guide doesn't demand i believe him and nor does he declare his words as the only truth against all other truths. His words come to me from his mouth, i am not told his words by another and nor does another interpret them.

[miracles]

Yes i do see your point.

My Guide didn't 'lead' me to the Quoran. My Guide told and showed me many stories, the one i have recounted is a single example, and one that affords itself as an anchor toward the understanding that my conception of Christ did not pour forth from scriptural texts, be those texts Quoran or bible. My Guide allowed me to form a great understanding of Christ.

The Quoran is not an emersing journey into satanism, it is collection of books of which the bible is but one segment.

Quote from wiki:

The Qur'an assumes familiarity with major narratives recounted in Jewish and Christian scriptures, summarizing some, dwelling at length on others, and, in some cases, presenting alternative accounts and interpretations of events.[20][21][22]. The Qur'an describes itself as book of guidance. It rarely offers detailed accounts of specific historical events, and often emphasizes the moral significance of an event over its narrative sequence

That doesn't sound very satanic to me.

As far as i am aware the Quoran is a book of love, although having never studied it i am only surmising from what others have told me. Like may pure things it too has been taken by evil men and its words manipulated to form hatred in the hearts of weak minded men, and thus has ensued extremist views and policy. but such men who would blaspheme the works of beauty are very much in the minority.

My Guide has led me into great understandings and i trust his words as i trust my own.

Many Christians will speak of visitations unto the men of scripture, indeed the most famous of all is that of Gabriel appearing before Mother Mary to usher in the consciousness of God among men. This is a widely recounted story and is versed to such a degree that you yourself puprport it as absolute truth.

Gabriel is the Messenger of God.

And there are many accounts within scripture of man / woman being visited upon by Angels and the such.

So what difference do you see in my story of a profound visitation, and the visitations as depicted in scripture and alluded to by men with pens?

Am i somehow less worthy do you think than these men?

Perhaps, but i am sure that you can get my point?

My Guide is far from satanic. He asks naught of me, and yet he brings to me great understanding, without cost or threat or lure.

:cool:

EDIT: My Guide doesn't demand i believe him and nor does he declare his words as the only truth against all other truths. His words come to me from his mouth, I am not told his words by another and nor does another interpret them.

Im sure you just made a mistake, but the bible isn't a small part of the Quran at all. When I say satanic, I basically mean part of the fallen world system of which satan rules over, anything that does not teach the truth about who Christ really is, is frankly a lie. I call that satanic. ( Please understand Im not saying your guide is or isn't satanic. I wouldnt offend you by saying that at all.)

Yes I know Christ doesn't eminate from the scriptures persay, we dont worship the book, but still the words of God is alive.

Do you implicitly trust your guide? If so why? And what or whom do you think your guide is?

Here is a very interesting story on SPirit guides. Id like to know what you think of it?
http://www.christianitytoday.com/tc/1997/julaug/7r4088.html?start=1

PS I dont vouch for the authenticity of the story, I just found it interesting.

[tannah]

I do not accept the Quran and not the bible. Islam is the biggest cult on earth. It is satanic, so this will give you an inkling as to what I think your guide is. (Im sorry I dont mean to offend) this is my belief.

The Holy Spirit is the only spirit that can be trusted and the Holy SPirit is invisible and guides the spirit internally through the word of God, and other forms of spirit guide, is very suspect, and I dare I say dangerous.

That's dubious. It's born from the underlying assumptions made about the bible. But as soon as one holds the light of reason to it, y'all run into yer shells and feel martyred and insulted.;)

Quite amazing though Miracles. You have it quite nicely tied up, any opposition is satanic. That includes opposition amongst various christian doctrines too. And ya don't even go to church. Technically ya ain't even a christian, but an individual like me.

Me, I been baptized, and christened too as a kid. I'm every bit as christian as yourself, if I were to choose a label. But, what can I say, Jesus led me to see through the nature of the bible.:) The inner spirit did allow me to focus on the contents , and the contents were found wanting. The bible contains borrowed myths rehashed, fragments of the origins, as in the marriage of the divine masculine/feminine aspects into the one force, as Jesus is trying to say, if only they didn't go on to leave the in depth stuff out.

I always suspected that if satan was going to infiltrate any organisation he would corrupt from the inside. He took over the priestly duties through many corrupt catholics centuries ago.

Christianity, of which Jesus was/is playing no part, was/is used as a tool to back up political intent. The perfect cocktail to keep you farmed is for them to give you just enough work to keep you going, enough to buy a tv and other petty comforts, and a nice church and bible to help make you think what good people you all must be. It's a total fallacy Miracles. Some people want the real thing, not the watered down speil that has perfectly normal humans turn into spiritual Hitlers. This is why there is a spiritual gap for many. It's because the reality painted by the bible doesn't quite cut it. Maybe thousands of years ago people had a good cheer when their king came back with the heads of fifty victims. More people have lost that killer edge nowadays, and I'd gaurentee you that, should someone really think about it, they could never accept Jehovah as the kind of God worthy of Love.
And they would wonder why on earth a gentle sounding soul like Jesus should be associated with such a jealous God that kills babies, not just human.

Jehovah signifies the big coorporations. Jesus signifies the masses bowing down and allowing themselves to be herded for the sweet smell of security and stability. They have it well worked out in the bible, in that we all wanna be like Jesus, and don't wanna cross big daddy Jehovah.

[phildee3]

Me, I been baptized, and christened too as a kid.



I've never heard of them being two seperate things.
Can you explain the two different ceremonies, I've never heard of this before.

...genuinely curious.

[geolaureate8]

Jesus is God, I'm God, we're all God. Jesus isn't special. He was a wise man who perhaps had a higher level of consciousness. Nothing we can't attain either.

.

[phildee3]

Jesus is God, I'm God, we're all God. Jesus isn't special. He was a wise man who perhaps had a higher level of consciousness. Nothing we can't attain either.



There's only one Christ/messiah (king of kings),
so Christ is special (ie. unique)
and Jesus was anointed messiah.

I do agree that Christ consciousness is attainable for all.

[geolaureate8]

There's only one Christ/messiah (king of kings),

I bow down to no one. He's not my king, he himself would be disappointed if he found out his followers took a slave-like attitude and behaved as such.

so Christ is special (ie. unique)
and Jesus was anointed messiah.

"We can accept God becoming man to save man, but we cannot accept man becoming God to save himself." - Vernon Howard

Do you accept that statement? If so, why bother focusing on Christ as a Messiah?

I agree that Christ consciousness is attainable for all.

Why Christ? Why not Krishna Consciousness, why not Buddha Consciousness, or Confucius Consciousness?

It is not necessary to select out one man, and call him the chosen one. There are many great, wise ones, and we all will reach that status too.

.

[phildee3]

I bow down to no one.



I'm not asking you to.
I'm not an evangelist, I'm a Christian libertarian - you do what you like.



He's not my king,



Who is?



he himself would be disappointed if he found out his followers took a slave-like attitude and behaved as such.



Agreed.
He came to free us from slavery.



"We can accept God becoming man to save man, but we cannot accept man becoming God to save himself." - Vernon Howard

Do you accept that statement?



No.



Why Christ? Why not Krishna Consciousness, why not Buddha Consciousness, or Confucius Consciousness?



Why not indeed? It's all the same thing.



It is not necessary to select out one man, and call him the chosen one. There are many great, wise ones, and we all will reach that status too.



I didn't select him

and I already agreed that we can all attain the same consciousness, but we can't attain the status of being the first anointed one.

[geolaureate8]

I'm not asking you to.
I'm not an evangelist, I'm a Christian libertarian - you do what you like.

You just told me who my king was.


Who is?

The Universe.


Agreed.
He came to free us from slavery.

If he came to free us, then why is he a king? A king is a ruler, a ruler of slaves more or less.


No.

If you cannot accept man becoming his own God, and feel the need to give power over your own mind to another authority, then that is a slave mentality.


Why not indeed? It's all the same thing.

That makes no sense. If that's the case, why are you a Christian if Buddhism and Hinduism are equally valid in your eyes?


I didn't select him

Yes you did. You chose him over all the other deities and wisemen. Why didn't you choose Ra, Muhammad, or Quetzalcoatl?

and I already agreed that we can all attain the same consciousness, but we can't attain the status of being the first anointed one.

If you really believe what you just said, then you admit Christ isn't special after all, thus rendering Christianity useless. The first person in line to get their candy bar, is no better than the person second in line to get the candy bar. Does it really matter who is first?

.

[phildee3]

You just told me who my king was.



No I didn't.
I told you who your king's king is.



The Universe.



okay.



If he came to free us, then why is he a king? A king is a ruler, a ruler of slaves more or less.



In this case, less - much less.
A tyrant rules over slaves. A king is not necessarily a tyrant.
The trouble is they assasinate those who aren't (like JFK!),
so he is not an earthly king.



If you cannot accept man becoming his own God, and feel the need to give power over your own mind to another authority, then that is a slave mentality.



I disagreed with Howard:

"...we cannot accept man becoming God to save himself." - Vernon Howard



That makes no sense. If that's the case, why are you a Christian if Buddhism and Hinduism are equally valid in your eyes?



Because the resources for study and practice of Christianity were more readily available where I live.



Yes you did. You chose him over all the other deities and wisemen. Why didn't you choose Ra, Muhammad, or Quetzalcoatl?



As above.

They're all special.



Does it really matter who is first?



Yes.

It changed everything that happened subsequently

(read: Rudolf Steiner, "Approaching the Mystery of Golgotha").

[tannah]

I've never heard of them being two seperate things.
Can you explain the two different ceremonies, I've never heard of this before.

...genuinely curious.

Well when I was about ten years old I had some kind of communion thingy, which I called "christened" in my post. When I was about 22 I was baptized (this wasn't catholic). I was probably showered in water when I was a baby too.

[stfd]

Jesus is God, I'm God, we're all God. Jesus isn't special. He was a wise man who perhaps had a higher level of consciousness. Nothing we can't attain either.

.

riiiight.
Were all God(s) yes?
okaaay...i got it now, NOW is all clear.
So how is it is your name God? or you feel godly?
Or how does it work? how does it work for you being God anyway?
I mean ,let us know - i am sure everyone would like to hear !

[ic_ic]

^ *facepalm*

[phildee3]

Well when I was about ten years old I had some kind of communion thingy, which I called "christened" in my post.



Okay.
That's normally called "first communion."
One is Christened at Baptism.
Protestants tend to call Baptism "Christening."

Once validly baptised, you can't be baptised again (only go through the motions).
Then there's confirmation - which is the completion of baptism by making an adult commitment, of your own free will. That's indellible too.

[tannah]

riiiight.
Were all God(s) yes?
okaaay...i got it now, NOW is all clear.
So how is it is your name God? or you feel godly?
Or how does it work? how does it work for you being God anyway?
I mean ,let us know - i am sure everyone would like to hear !

Is a drop of water the ocean? Is it part of the ocean? What is the ocean without the drops of water?

We all contain the image of God, the infinite ocean of being. Plug in and switch on. Apparently we can go all the way to feeling at one with it.

[merlincove]

Is a drop of water the ocean? Is it part of the ocean? What is the ocean without the drops of water?

We all contain the image of God, the infinite ocean of being. Plug in and switch on. Apparently we can go all the way to feeling at one with it.

A drop of water is not the ocean.

You can't swim in a drop of water.

:eek:

But i totally get what you are saying :D

[stfd]

Is a drop of water the ocean? Is it part of the ocean? What is the ocean without the drops of water?

We all contain the image of God, the infinite ocean of being. Plug in and switch on. Apparently we can go all the way to feeling at one with it.

uhuh yea yea.
But remember, the "ocean" you speak of is without begining or end is infinite.
And while the drops do have the SAME say umm molecular 'composition' with the 'father' 'ocean' they ARE LIMITED and will always be.
The drops will never become infinite oceans BUT on the other hand they can easily evaporate and dissapear for eternity due to the unforgiving sun.
Only thing they can do to save themselves is to seek and once more become ONE with the 'ocean'.

[tannah]

A drop of water is not the ocean.

You can't swim in a drop of water.

:eek:

But i totally get what you are saying :D

He he, well a microbe would have a good leap into a drop of water!

But there's more, because of what quantum mechanics recognizes as "non-locality", instant communication at a so called distance. And there's also a case for a holographic style universe. That means all the information of the ocean is contained in each quantum bit of the drop of water. Excellent idea God, if I say so myself!

[phildee3]

uhuh yea yea.
But remember, the "ocean" you speak of is without begining or end is infinite.
And while the drops do have the SAME say umm molecular 'composition' with the 'father' 'ocean' they ARE LIMITED and will always be.
The drops will never become infinite oceans BUT on the other hand they can easily evaporate and dissapear for eternity due to the unforgiving sun.



You take the analogy too literally,
ot maybe it's a poor analogy.
The drops are like pieces of a hologram,
or a section of a fractal,
each drop contains the same information as the whole and is an exact copy of it. Each one is infinite (what is infinity divided by billions? eh, eh eh???).

[stfd]

You take the analogy too literally,
ot maybe it's a poor analogy.
The drops are like pieces of a hologram,
or a section of a fractal,
each drop contains the same information as the whole and is an exact copy of it. Each one is infinite (what is infinity divided by billions? eh, eh eh???).

heh i know what you guys mean... but again

people arent,cant become and will never be God(s) period.

[phildee3]

people arent,cant become and will never be God(s) period.



I disagree. Full stop.

[dedicate]

Maybe we are already God, and he has decided to forget himself to play this game of remembering who we really are. It makes the Universe fun for him too.

This is the theory based on the observation: there is nothing outside of God, and God can not be seperated from the fullness of Who He Is. Therefore I am God and the fullness of God. So you can return to God (your true being) via evolving your spirit/consciousness/being or.. through destruction of your soul (fighting with God,, or the WAY THINGS ARE) becoming no-ONE. It's all very interesting.

this above observation, is why so many people believe the Gospel of John has been misunderstood by most people.. "I and the Father are One",, And the original post makes it clear how a lot of these Johanean statements by Christ can be misinterpreted also. It's clear...not seperatist view.

[phildee3]

Maybe we are already God, and he has decided to forget himself to play this game of remembering who we really are. It makes the Universe fun for him too.

This is the theory based on the observation: there is nothing outside of God, and God can not be seperated from the fullness of Who He Is. Therefore I am God and the fullness of God. So you can return to God (your true being) via evolving your spirit/consciousness/being or.. through destruction of your soul (fighting with God,, or the WAY THINGS ARE) becoming no-ONE. It's all very interesting.

this above observation, is why so many people believe the Gospel of John has been misunderstood by most people.. "I and the Father are One",, And the original post makes it clear how a lot of these Johanean statements by Christ can be misinterpreted also. It's clear...not seperatist view.



nice one, dc.

[dedicate]

Yes. And I can see the objections from afar. People will say, Doesn't the Bible point out Sin seperates us from God? Why would the Bible (God's Word) read "seperate from God" if there is nothing seperate from God?

Two things,, and a third, but first: This is the realm of words,, the Bible is full full of words. True this is.. and the Torah begins with a warning -- "YOu are entering the world of Duality" (and you thought it began with "In the Begining", but this is just a redundancy, isn't it? to begin with,,, In the Begining?), ie the world of words. Words exist in the world of Duality -- the world of illusion/delusion/mistaken fantasy! and REALITY. Those who know Hebrew can see this warning. -- it is first thing one sees!

one can say -- Sin creates the illusion of seperation from God. This is a more updated way of saying it. Most people on this site can and do understand --- reality is an illusion. So... the reality is, sin makes for seperation... but the reality is always an illusion (Reality is illusion and Illusion is Reality -- duality, words). There is no seperation. Seperation is an illusion -- created by sin.

The Paradox in the eye of the needle.

[dedicate]

And from the far left, is the objection, "If seperation is an illusion/delusion, and even reality is an illusion, then isn't the Oneness also an illusion? The saying that there is no seperatness, this is also an illusion?"

Yes. The greatest illusion.

[miracles]

uhuh yea yea.
But remember, the "ocean" you speak of is without begining or end is infinite.
And while the drops do have the SAME say umm molecular 'composition' with the 'father' 'ocean' they ARE LIMITED and will always be.
The drops will never become infinite oceans BUT on the other hand they can easily evaporate and dissapear for eternity due to the unforgiving sun.
Only thing they can do to save themselves is to seek and once more become ONE with the 'ocean'.
Very good analogy. :)

[miracles]

Maybe we are already God, and he has decided to forget himself to play this game of remembering who we really are. It makes the Universe fun for him too.

This is the theory based on the observation: there is nothing outside of God, and God can not be seperated from the fullness of Who He Is. Therefore I am God and the fullness of God. So you can return to God (your true being) via evolving your spirit/consciousness/being or.. through destruction of your soul (fighting with God,, or the WAY THINGS ARE) becoming no-ONE. It's all very interesting.

this above observation, is why so many people believe the Gospel of John has been misunderstood by most people.. "I and the Father are One",, And the original post makes it clear how a lot of these Johanean statements by Christ can be misinterpreted also. It's clear...not seperatist view.

The gospel of John is Crystal Clear, Jesus Christ is God, and the only way to the FAther. And the Holy Spirit leads one to this truth.

It would be more honest for you to state that you dont understand John, than to say it has been misinterpreted, because what your are really doing is twisting the scripture now, and casting doubt on the meaning, we know who does that trick too dont we? (IE not even misinterpreting it) in order to make it line up with something you can understand.

Sorry that Observation is totally flawed because sin is outside of God. Because of Who God is, He cant have and does not have any part in sin. The reality is therefore we are indeed separted from God because of SIN. Christ was the acceptable sacrifice from sin. Acceptable To God that is.

Hey, Ive got no problem if you religion of preference is Taoism, But the bible and Christianity certainly is not Taosim and any amount of twisting scripture will not make it so. (actually correction, any amount of twisting scripture can make anything so, If thats what really you want to do, I guess. *sigh*)

Now I will be lambasted for being a fundamentalist no doubt.

[dedicate]

You are correct to say Taoist. To see Taoism in what I have said, I think is correct. Jesus was a great Taoist it seems.

And I did address your objection. I knew it would pop up, like a Net Flix add on my computer.

Now where are you coming from? Let's just take this one-step-at-a-time, and see if maybe you are not lining things up to fit or are misinterpreting.

Is God omnipresent? Or is God's creation seperate from God? These are two different understandings. Which is it do you hold?

[tannah]

The gospel of John is Crystal Clear, Jesus Christ is God, and the only way to the FAther. And the Holy Spirit leads one to this truth.

It would be more honset to state that you dont understand John, than to say it has been misinterpreted, becuase what your are really doing is twisting the scripturte, (IE not even misinterpreting it) in order to make it line up with something you can understand.

Sorry that Observation is totally flawed because sin is outside of God. Becuase of Who God is, He can have and does not have any part in sin. The reality is therefore we are indeed separted from God because of SIN. Christ was the acceptable sacrifice from sin. Acceptable To God that is.

Hey, Ive got no problem if you religion of preference is Taoism, But the bible and Christianity certainly is not Taosim and any amount of twisting scriptute will not make it so. (actually correction, any amount of tisting scripture can make anything so, If thats what really you want to do, I guess. *sigh*)

Now I will be lambasted for being a fundamentalist no doubt.

No, you will be asked that, if you can accept scripture can be twisted, why you don't accept that the bible has been twisted. Why don't you have an open mind on how the bible was put together? Why are you so reluctant to face up to the actions committed in christianity's name, and a God that is said to kill all manner of people and livestock too?

You're not asking fundamental questions at all. Why should anybody believe that a real god has actually done these deeds that are contained in the bible, and other holy scriptures? What's so ahrd to understand about it being humans that have thought these things about a God?

You won't find God in the past, and at present it still ain't found. But I'm quite sure that the moment we do find it, it won't be like the dude that killed the Egyptian babies, nor will it have any idea of wtf you mean by a hell where it supposedly sends spirits.

The past is our attempt at coming to understand something that must have created what we see around us.

[miracles]

You are correct to say Taoist. To see Taoism in what I have said, I think is correct. Jesus was a great Taoist it seems.

And I did address your objection. I knew it would pop up, like a Net Flix add on my computer.

Now where are you coming from? Let's just take this one-step-at-a-time, and see if maybe you are not lining things up to fit or are misinterpreting.

Is God omnipresent? Or is God's creation seperate from God? These are two different understandings. Which is it do you hold?

You know where I am coming form, I am coming form a scriptural biblical reality.

By Omnipresent means, I take you mean He is present in everything and everywhere, but the bible is clear that there is no sin in God, which mean He is not in sin, therfore not Omnipresent.

I am God's creation, I am not God, So yes God's creation is seperate from God mos def, but My DNA is in my Son, but I am not my son. Gods signature is all through the bible, but the bible is not God. Gods handy works can be seen in the deisgn of a snowflake, but the snowflake is not God, still I know a lot of flakes like to think we are all one giant pulsing ocean of spirtual love and light and godley oneness, sorry, that's a crock of....

The bible goes even further and says that God the Father can not even look upon sin. So unless we have received Christ as saviour in the Fathers eyes we dont even exist because we are still in our sins and God's wrath is upon us, now I know you will say that if Gods wrath is upon us then that means He can see us, no it doesn't, If Gods wrath is upon sin and wickedness as the bible teaches, then it is utter foolishness to then conclude that God is every where including in all sin and evil, it aint gonna wash. .

Jesus was not a great taoist at all. Otherwise He would be both satan and Jesus at the same time. Which I know alot of people buy, Im just sayng the bible doesn't state that.

You may not be aware that a christian who is out of fellowship with His wife is in danger of his prayers being greatly hindered, the same goes if he has an unresolved issue with a brother. So if God scarcely hears the paryers of a Christian, and that a christian only gets into heaven barely by the skin of his teeth, then how do you think a man still in his sins will be heard or received by a Holy Rigtheous Sovereign Creator. This is biblical Christianity. I am a defender of the Christian faith in thsi forum nothing more, leavethe bible to the Christians, unless you are prepared to take it all and not what suits you.

Read second Peter.

As I said you can have your taoist belief but dont twist the scripture to make it mean the bible and Christ is taoist, or I will put more than Net flix flea in your ear.

thats step one to eternity. :D

[dedicate]

The old dichotomy paradigm, 400 years now, influence everything from science to religion.-- Descartes made it his.

There is seperation. eh? There is you over there, and me over here. There is the the earth and the seperate cars driving across the landscape, and the Sun in the sky and the planets. All different things. Then, in order for us to communicate effectively and go about our business we accept, there is self and there is other; Or, there is subject and the object. Then, there is God Who exists outside the creation like a scientist observing and interacting with what is His. All dichotomies.-- the process of making a distinction, one group from another, seperations, divisions.

But not all people are finding this paradigm usefull, or able to explain everything going on. Spirit people are finding this view leaves them empty and void of something valuable,, seperate from creation! Regular people are now begining to see that self and other are not so different and independent -- what they do to others they do to themselves. Science has taken a look at the holographic theory of matter/energy/universe, even. This means that many are moving into the realm of the mystic who through direct experience claims Unity with all things, including God, who he says IS ALL THINGS.

"Whatsoever you do to the least of my brothers, that you do unto me".. Is this literal? or is it within the framework of a dichotomy,,, such as when my employer says to me, "What you do here reflects on McDonalds" (just kidding)? Couldn't one see it either way? Could not both interpretations be true, while not excluding the other? Is it a literal statement or figurative. If literal, then Jesus is saying, "All people are me, and I am all people." Why would a Christian prevent another from accepting this as literal truth? That's what it says, and it's beautiful?

no distinctions, no seperation, all the same. And it is true. But the mystic also understands -- distinction, seperation, differances. And there's the rub. He has gone beyond, but understands the rung below can not and should not be so easily discarded. Just as the spirit person understands the reality of the material world,-- while the materialist rejects the spirit world.

This is where I can take issue with many churches today. Most of them still play to this dichotomy of God being elsewhere, somewhere else, while rejecting the mystical visions. This to me means that most Christians are "Not only failing to find the Kingdom themselves, but barring others from entering the Kingdom".

As for Peter 2.. False Teachers and Teachings -- foreign doctrine and false prophets. I think Peter was talking about some other things. Not the OP.

[miracles]

The old dichotomy paradigm, 400 years now, influence everything from science to religion.-- Descartes made it his.

There is seperation. eh? There is you over there, and me over here. There is the the earth and the seperate cars driving across the landscape, and the Sun in the sky and the planets. All different things. Then, in order for us to communicate effectively and go about our business we accept, there is self and there is other. Or, there is the subject and the object. Then, there is God outside the creation like a scientist observing and interacting whith what is his. All dichotomies.-- the process of making a distinction one group from another, seperations, divisions.

But not all people are finding this paradigm usefull, or able to explain everything going on. People are now begining to see that self and other are not so different and independent. Science has taken a look at the holographic theory of matter/energy/universe, even. Spirit people are also finding this view leaves them empty and void of something valuable,, seperate from creation! This means that many are moving into the realm of the mystic who through direct experience claims Unity with all things, including God, who he says IS ALL THINGS.

"Whatsoever you do to the least of my brothers, that you do unto me".. Is this literal? or is it within the framwork of a dichotomy,,, such as when my employer says to me, "What you do here reflects on McDonalds" (just kidding)? Couldn't one see it either way? Could not both interpretations be true, while not excluding the other? Is it a literal statement or figurative. If literal, then Jesus is saying, "All people are me, and I am all people." Why would a Christian prevent a person from accepting this as literal truth? That's what it says.

no distinctions, no seperation, all the same. And it is true. But the mystic also understands -- distinction, seperation, differances. And there's the rub. He has gone beyond, but understands the rung below can not and should not be so easily discarded.

This is where I can take issue with many churches today. Most of them still play to this dichotomy of God being elsewhere, somewhere else, while rejecting the mystical visions. This to me means that most Christians are "Not only failing to find the Kingdom themselves, but barring others from entering the Kingdom".

As for Peter 2.. False Teachers and Teachings -- foreign doctrine and false prophets. I think Peter was talking about some other things. Not the OP.

What do mean people are "beginning" to look for different paradigms. These are not new concepts.

Another human being can not bar you from the kingdom of the heavens (he can be used a stumbling block by satan though), and a Human being can not get you in. Including yourself! The Holy Spirit is in the world. And it is the Spririt that leasd you to Christ who is the only way the only truth and the only life through which you can enter into the kingdom of the heavens. If you are already Christ then your okay Deidicate, if that is your new paradigm. It will be up to you to decide whether you want to rest you eternal security on a mere fanciful interpretation. I wish you well.

[dedicate]

I don't know if I said that, "People are looking for different paradigms." -- What may be is, they found something they might not have been looking for, an new understanding of themselves and the universe

And it is not new. This view is as old as history, or older. Just today, more people are ready to see. That's what's new. 150 years ago barely a thing was published about transcendent reality. The general public was not ready for it. It could only be taught from teacher to student. But today, many many people are waking up, and the knowledge and teaching is available to anyone. In your parlance, this has a lot to do with the End Time Scenario, and things being excellerated.

Funny Miracles, this is maybe the third time, I have given out Bible references and you have refuted the reference (one, I believe was those born of the spirit being like the wind),, and now this one.

You say, "Another human being can not bar you from the kingdom". Of course they can't,, but they do. And I am quoting Mathew 23:13

"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharasies, you hypocrites! You shut the kindom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying"...

Like what I said. The churches today are doing the same thing. 'Baring' -- restricting admitance, preventing. They are doing this, when people bring objections to the "God is somewhere else" dichotomy, or something else. And when the little children are raised to feel seperate from the creation that is God, or hypnotised to believe certain things. This is preventing people from finding truth.

And I can get in myself,, because I am already in, today, not in some distant future or after I leave this body. Today, now, I am within the Kingdom of Heaven.

[miracles]

I don't know if I said that, "People are looking for different paradigms." -- What may be is, they found something they might not have been looking for, an new understanding of themselves and the universe

And it is not new. This view is as old as history, or older. Just today, more people are ready to see. That's what's new. 150 years ago barely a thing was published about transcendent reality. The general public was not ready for it. It could only be taught from teacher to student. But today, many many people are waking up, and the knowledge and teaching is available to anyone. In your parlance, this has a lot to do with the End Time Scenario, and things being excellerated.

Funny Miracles, this is maybe the third time, I have given out Bible references and you have refuted the reference (one, I believe was those born of the spirit being like the wind),, and now this one.

You say, "Another human being can not bar you from the kingdom". Of course they can't,, but they do. And I am quoting Mathew 23:13

"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharasies, you hypocrites! You shut the kindom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying"...

Like what I said. The churches today are doing the same thing. 'Baring' -- restricting admitance, preventing. They are doing this, when people bring objections to the "God is somewhere else" dichotomy, or something else. And when the little children are raised to feel seperate from the creation that is God, or hypnotised to believe certain things. This is preventing people from finding truth.

And I can get in myself,, because I am already in, today, not in some distant future or after I leave this body. Today, now, I am within the Kingdom of Heaven.
You would have to name the churches you are referring to here, it's to generalised to say "the churhes today" but I know what you mean.

Okay great we could be getting somewhere here, you say you are already within the kingdom of heaven now. How do you know this??

A man who has not entered into the kingdom of heaven himslef, can certainly not lead another man into the kingdom of heaven, because one would assume, if he is a leader adn teacher, he either doesnt know how, or if he does know and has note entered he is employed by the evil one.

So I would like to know I do I get there in your opinion and experienece, because obvioulsy you would not want to be as a pharisee and teach me something that is wrong.

[dedicate]

There are exceptions, of course. I can think of two and a third church today that teach what I'm talking about. You will not like the list, I'm sure. But, the Christian Scientist teach Kingdom of Heaven here now... I was talking to one Christian Scientist the other day, and this is what I was told.."No sickness in the Kingdom of Heaven"-- and they believe in no sickness on earth,, so.. Kingdom of Heaven is here/now. Another interesting church is the Quackers.. New Thought, Unity, and many others I'm sure. But these I've mentioned, have been very much influenced and infiltrated by The Powers that Be,, and have lost a lot since their origins. Just read a Christian Science Journal today! Then there are the more esoteric schools, hardly even known about,, and I could name only two that exist today, and from what I hear are about to go down the way of all the other churches, because of the falling away from the original teachings.. But the vast majority of churches, I've found are backward thinking and employ methods which I find unhealthy.. such as the Mormons, Jahova Witness and 7th Day Adventist who lay a terrific guilt trip on the members and require much patronage from them. Then most other churches, just accept membership and being a good person, believing this and that,, but true spiritual growth is little incouraged.

---"Okay great we could be getting somewhere here, you say you are already within the kingdom of heaven now. How do you know this??" -----
I suppose the same way anyone knows anything. That is by math through experience and by being told.

Math -- I accept the fact that anything which can be attained, any truth, and any perfection is already attained, known and perfected in me. Otherwise it does not exist. There is no Kingdom of heaven, if it doesn't exist, today/now. I know this logically/mathematically. So, I recongize it is there to be regonized, within. And I look for it,, work hard to find it,, and find it where it always was/is

But my experience also tells me this is true. Heaven is good, perfect, loving, strong, beautiful, infinite, kind, generous, creative, .... All those things I find in myself and everywhere I look. Not somewhere far away. The Kingdom is with me, or it is no where to be found. I see it.-- It is everything the Bible says about Heaven.

Then, I am confirmed and furthered in my belief by those who I respect and acknowledge as ones who know.


As for recommendations on what to do.. I don't know, but a good way is to look around, find out what is really there peeping threw the darkness and shade. 1) Admire beautiful things, -- really experience them, open yourself up to the wonders of the world. 2)Always tell the truth.. I've found that a lack of honesty in a person always makes one an enemy of truth even unknowingly. So develop truthful and honest habits... always.

Then the other commandments are a great help,, and compassion and the TEACHINGS of Christ will open one up to understanding/experiencing what I'm saying here.

So, I'm not asking anyone to do anything they can not do,, and they will discover THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN WITHIN.. but do one must, or one will not attain that which one already owns and has.. what a paradox.

[miracles]

Off course the kingdom of the heavens is attainable here an now, this is the gospel Christ preached, however it is clear you have not yet found how to attain it, otherwise you woyld be able to tell, you just acknowledge by some inkling that it there and attainable. Keep searching and you will find it.

I am able to tell you but you would not listen, the bible will also tell you.

The thing is the bible says you can know and that you now. Christ said I tell you these thing so that you know you have eternal life, and it is attainable now.

Read 1 John. :) 2 john and 3rd John

God bless you.

[dedicate]

Yes. These are somewhat simple-fied concepts and precepts. But we are making progress, aren't we. At least this didn't turn into a conflict thread.

I had to change one thing, -- in the middle of the last post i may have called you a fool, and no sooner did I open the Bible to a passage in Mat, where it said something like, Dont call your brother a fool, or you will be heading toward Hell. Really. Anyway.

There is a lot of misconceptions on what religion is about. But the antagonisms seem to be in remission right now. Maybe some of the people on this board who have actually studied and practiced religion are helping the others get a better understanding. Everybodies just trying to get at the light and the truth and the way, so no use going to war over it. But there is a lot of good information coming out,, and I believe, if people would hold off being against religion due to preconceived ideas (myself included),then we could see some real progress.