Super Thermite in WTC was Developed in Israel

[kevin82]

According to investigative journalist Christopher Bollyn who will release his full work on Sept 1.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_PB5-El7se4s/R4qlRDbWi6I/AAAAAAAAE5g/CLbli4aMXxc/s400/negev.jpg
Israel's Nuclear Research Center - Negev near Dimona develops super-thermite films like that found in the rubble of the World Trade Center.


Israel's secret and super-secure nuclear lab is where the extremely powerful super-thermite of 9-11 was designed. The chief scientists involved in the manufacturing of the nano-composite used to pulverize the World Trade Center on 9-11 will be named in a forthcoming article in this space (Chris Bollyn's website).

This is the extremely powerful nano-composite used to pulverize the World Trade Center on 9-11. This is a form of super-thermite that was applied as a highly energetic film to the interior surfaces of the Twin Towers.

He received an interesting tip from a scientist who has worked closely with the U.S. intelligence community. The information, which supports his thesis of Israelis being behind 9-11, points to the Israeli defense company Elbit, a company he has written about in connection with the electronic vote fraud of the Iowa caucus. Elbit is an interesting Israeli military company that has many subsidiaries and does a frightful amount of business with the U.S. military and government. Elbit also develops UAV (unmanned ariel vehicles) and other hi-tech military hardware.

http://www.yourindustrynews.com/upload_images/Elbit_Systems_Logo.JPG

One of the more conspicuous and curious aspects of Elbit, at least as far as being a possible suspect in the 9-11 crime, is that one of the key people running this Israeli military company is named Hellerstein -- Ran Hellerstein. The judge who controls the 9-11 litigation, which after 8 years has yet to produce a trial, is also a Hellerstein -- Alvin K. Hellerstein.

Connections between Ran Hellerstein and Alvin K. Hellerstein. he has already written a great deal about the fact that Judge Alvin K. Hellerstein's sister and son both emigrated from America to Israel. His son, Joseph, has worked closely with the Israeli government on negotiations with the Palestinians, in Oslo, for example. There is a very good chance that the Hellersteins of Elbit and the U.S. court in New York are cousins.

http://www.bollyn.com/index.php

[stephy544]

WOW great info. Bollyn is an amazing journalist. I always knew Israel was connected.

[tabea_blumenschein]

Truther: The twin towers were brought down with explosives!

Rational person: Then why isn't there a loud series of explosions preceding the collapses, like you hear on every video documenting the controlled demolition of a building?

Truther: Then maybe the twin towers were brought down with super-duper-thermite!

Rational person: But you told me the "squibs" and the horizontal expulsion of heavy steel beams can only be explained by high explosives. What gives?

Truther: Er, well, uh ...

Rational person: Also, thermite melts straight down. How do you get it to melt through vertical beams?

Truther: Shill!!!

Rational person: And do you know how much thermite it takes to melt each pound of steel? And how many people would have to be carting all those tons of thermite up elevators for months without anyone noticing? And then moving massive amounts of furniture and opening up walls to properly place the thermite? And then putting everything back the way it was so perfectly that even people who had worked in the building for years couldn't notice the difference?

Truther: Aaaaarrrrggghhh!!!!!!!

(Rational person leaves, shaking her head.)

Truther: 9/11 was an inside job!!!!!! Super-duper therm*te!!!

[kevin82]

Rich Banaciski -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Ladder 22]
... and then I just remember there was just an explosion. It seemed like on television they blow up these buildings. It seemed like it was going all the way around like a belt, all these explosions.

Brian Becker -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Engine 28]
The collapse hadn't begun, but it was not a fire any more up there. It was like -- it was like that -- like smoke explosion on a tremendous scale going on up there.

Greg Brady -- E.M.T. (E.M.S.) [Battalion 6]
We were standing underneath and Captain Stone was speaking again. We heard -- I heard 3 loud explosions. I look up and the north tower is coming down now, 1 World Trade Center.

Timothy Burke -- Firefigter (F.D.N.Y.) [Engine 202]
But it seemed like I was going oh, my god, there is a secondary device because the way the building popped. I thought it was an explosion.

Ed Cachia -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Engine 53]
we originally had thought there was like an internal detonation explosives because it went in succession, boom, boom, boom, boom, and then the tower came down.

Frank Campagna -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Ladder 11]
You see three explosions and then the whole thing coming down.

Craig Carlsen -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Ladder 8]
... you just heard explosions coming from building two, the south tower. It seemed like it took forever, but there were about ten explosions.

Jason Charles -- E.M.T. (E.M.S.)
... and then I heard an explosion from up, from up above, and I froze and I was like, oh, s___, I'm dead because I thought the debris was going to hit me in the head and that was it.
...
I look over my shoulder and I says, oh, s___, and then I turned around and looked up and that's when I saw the tower coming down.

Frank Cruthers -- Chief (F.D.N.Y.) [Citywide Tour Commander]
.. there was what appeared to be at first an explosion. It appeared at the very top, simultaneously from all four sides, materials shot out horizontally. And then there seemed to be a momentary delay before you could see the beginning of the collapse.

Kevin Darnowski -- Paramedic (E.M.S.)
I heard three explosions, and then we heard like groaning and grinding, and tower two started to come down.

Dominick Derubbio -- Battalion Chief (F.D.N.Y.) [Division 8]
It was weird how it started to come down. It looked like it was a timed explosion ...

Karin Deshore -- Captain (E.M.S.)
Somewhere around the middle of the World Trade Center, there was this orange and red flash coming out. Initially it was just one flash. Then this flash just kept popping all the way around the building and that building had started to explode.

Brian Dixon -- Battalion Chief (F.D.N.Y.)
... the lowest floor of fire in the south tower actually looked like someone had planted explosives around it because the whole bottom I could see -- I could see two sides of it and the other side -- it just looked like that floor blew out. I looked up and you could actually see everything blew out on the one floor. I thought, geez, this looks like an explosion up there, it blew out.

Michael Donovan -- Captain (F.D.N.Y.)
I thought there had been an explosion or a bomb that they had blown up there.

James Drury -- Assistant Commissioner (F.D.N.Y.)
I should say that people in the street and myself included thought that the roar was so loud that the explosive - bombs were going off inside the building.

Thomas Fitzpatrick -- Deputy Commissioner for Administration (F.D.N.Y.)
Some people thought it was an explosion. I don't think I remember that. I remember seeing it, it looked like sparkling around one specific layer of the building.
...
My initial reaction was that this was exactly the way it looks when they show you those implosions on TV.

Gary Gates -- Lieutenant (F.D.N.Y.)
So the explosion, what I realized later, had to be the start of the collapse. It was the way the building appeared to blowout from both sides. I'm looking at the face of it, and all we see is the two sides of the building just blowing out and coming apart like this, as I said, like the top of a volcano.

Kevin Gorman -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Ladder 22]
... I thought that when I looked in the direction of the Trade Center before it came down, before No. 2 came down, that I saw low-level flashes.

Gregg Hansson -- Lieutenant (F.D.N.Y.)
Then a large explosion took place. In my estimation that was the tower coming down, but at that time I did not know what that was. I thought some type of bomb had gone off.

Timothy Julian -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Ladder 118]
You know, and I just heard like an explosion and then cracking type of noise, and then it sounded like a freight train, rumbling and picking up speed, and I remember I looked up, and I saw it coming down.

John Malley -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Ladder 22]
I felt the rumbling, and then I felt the force coming at me. I was like, what the hell is that? In my mind it was a bomb going off.

James McKinley -- E.M.T. (E.M.S.)
After that I heard this huge explosion, I thought it was a boiler exploding or something. Next thing you know this huge cloud of smoke is coming at us, so we're running.

Joseph Meola -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Engine 91]
As we are looking up at the building, what I saw was, it looked like the building was blowing out on all four sides. We actually heard the pops. Didn't realize it was the falling -- you know, you heard the pops of the building. You thought it was just blowing out.

Kevin Murray -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Ladder 18]
When the tower started -- there was a big explosion that I heard and someone screamed that it was coming down and I looked away and I saw all the windows domino

Janice Olszewski -- Captain (E.M.S.)
I thought it was an explosion or a secondary device, a bomb, the jet -- plane exploding, whatever.

Daniel Rivera -- Paramedic (E.M.S.) [Battalion 31]
At first I thought it was -- do you ever see professional demolition where they set the charges on certain floors and then you hear "Pop, pop, pop, pop, pop"? That's exactly what -- because I thought it was that.

Angel Rivera -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.)
That's when hell came down. It was like a huge, enormous explosion. I still can hear it. Everything shook.

Kennith Rogers -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.)
I figured it was a bomb, because it looked like a synchronized deliberate kind of thing. I was there in '93.

Patrick Scaringello -- Lieutenant (E.M.S.)
I started to treat patients on my own when I heard the explosion from up above.

Mark Steffens -- Division Chief (E.M.S.)
Then there was another it sounded like an explosion and heavy white powder ...

John Sudnik -- Battalion Chief (F.D.N.Y.)
Then we heard a loud explosion or what sounded like a loud explosion and looked up and I saw tower two start coming down. Crazy.

Jay Swithers -- Captain (E.M.S.)
I took a quick glance at the building and while I didn't see it falling, I saw a large section of it blasting out, which led me to believe it was just an explosion. I thought it was a secondary device, but I knew that we had to go.

David Timothy -- E.M.T. (E.M.S.)
The next thing I knew, you started hearing more explosions. I guess this is when the second tower started coming down.

Albert Turi -- Deputy Assistant Chief (F.D.N.Y.)
And as my eyes traveled up the building, and I was looking at the south tower, somewhere about halfway up, my initial reaction was there was a secondary explosion, and the entire floor area, a ring right around the building blew out.

Thomas Turilli -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.)
... it almost actually that day sounded like bombs going off, like boom, boom, boom, like seven or eight, and then just a huge wind gust just came.

Stephen Viola -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.)
... that's when the south tower collapsed, and it sounded like a bunch of explosions.

William Wall -- Lieutenant (F.D.N.Y.) [Engine 47]
At that time, we heard an explosion. We looked up and the building was coming down right on top of us ...

[fanoftruth]

On September 11 2001 when I sat at home and watched the day's events unfold I thought it was plainly obvious that the towers were taken down with pre-set explosives of some sort. However being 19 years old and somewhat (though forgivably) naive I of course scratched my head as to how exactly the terrorists were able to gain the required access to the buildings in order to carry out such a precise operation.

If I was to summerise my thoughts today, after 3 or so years of hefty research, as to why I believe controlled demolition is the cause of the collapses I would point to ;

* The speed in which the towers fell
* The lack of floors after the destruction indicates they could not have 'pancaked'
* Hundreds of tonnes of debris is blown outward visually not adhering to the rules of gravity alone
* The sheer volume of material that is pulverised whilst in mid-collapse in an explosive manner
* The long list of firefighters who describe explosions secondary to any plane impact
* The firefighters who describe flashes or rings of light before initiation
* The visible flashes through the towers' facade in HQ videos
* The large explosion in the sub level before the plane impact in the north tower
* The substance leaking out the south tower's corner which is akin to metal undergoing a thermic reaction
* The pyroclastic surge of ultra fine materials sweeping through Manhattan after each collapse
* The fires are barely even visable from each tower
* The black smoke indicates fires which are not of a optimum temperature
* The recordings released of the firefighting operations have a firechief standing close to the impact zone of the south tower describing fires that are extinguishable with 2 lines of firefighters
* The whitish smoke emitting from the base of the towers before collapse
* The powerdowns in each tower in the months before 9/11
* Eye witness reports of drilling around the north tower leaving fine dust covered window cills
* The sheer number of relevant professionals who support a controlled demolition hypothesis
* The spire of the north tower's antenna drops in advance to the collapse from the impact zone
* Fema turned up in New York with their mobile headquarters on September 10
* Relevant professional who have studies dust samples have found traces of both reacted and non reacted nano thermite
* Visible explosions occuring in the North tower perfectly coinciding with the plane striking into the South tower


I may have missed a few points but overall I've given the points that when built up convince me of controlled demoition. Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth produce some great work and lately have released a couple of short videos looking in detail at the nature and behaviour of the towers' debris during the collapses. Take a look if you havent already seen these ;



YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

[nihil]

...

Study some laws of physics .
Or ask an engineer .

[kevin82]

Study some laws of physics .
Or ask an engineer .

Architects and Engineers for 911 Truth

http://www.ae911truth.org/

http://www.youtube.com/user/ae911truth

Physicists for 911 truth

http://physics911.net/

http://www.journalof911studies.com/

[christophera]

According to investigative journalist Christopher Bollyn who will release his full work on Sept 1.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_PB5-El7se4s/R4qlRDbWi6I/AAAAAAAAE5g/CLbli4aMXxc/s400/negev.jpg
Israel's Nuclear Research Center - Negev near Dimona develops super-thermite films like that found in the rubble of the World Trade Center.

Israel's secret and super-secure nuclear lab is where the extremely powerful super-thermite of 9-11 was designed.

The demo was done with conventional high explosives. There are no perfomance specifications for "nano thermite" or "super thermite". All technical descriptions describe an accelerant for artillery or rifle ammunition. Some decribe a use for artillery shells as a fuze.

The supposed high explosive "super thermite" STILL must be placed for maximum containment and none of the people presenting this material as a high explosive have spec's for it OR a feasible description of how the high explosives were placed or distributed. Such a description is absolutely required for a credible theory.

A Ph.d, Dr. Ron Larsen has made a page about a fully credible and feasible demolition model that includes a placement scenario that only requires secrecy at a time when the site was completely controlled.

http://libertycalling.com/cbrowndemomodel.htm

He and I concur that the thermite proposal is nonsense and unsupported in any tangible way. Such proposals are artifically promoted to mislead truth seekers by the perpetrators.

The reason they do it is to burn out supporters of demolition with erroneous info. Accordingly a true expert in explosives and incindiaries will show up and trash everyones belief to make them look like gullible fools. Hence they get burnout.

[stannrodd]

The demo was done with conventional high explosives.

Proof ??

You know this Chris ? How ?

Stann

[christophera]

Proof ??

You know this Chris ? How ?

Stann

It seems you know that google has changed their search results in the last month after I;ve used it so well to show the truth of what nano thremite reallu is.

I've seen you and gam use an awareness of internet irregularities that show you are right in the center of the cointellpro. The cooperation of breakfornews.com with gams photoshopping gave away the level you guys work at. Sick, real sick

No matter, the fact that there is no information on searches now says that the claims of it being used are without basis.

Perhaps by going 10-15 pages into google for results will find the appropriate articles about "nano" thermite to show the lack of specs that classify it as a high explosive.

This will be my last post here as I am banned for using logical and reasonable analysis of your behavior to describe what you are doing and why and that is the only functional thing to do because the analysis and determination of your intents are reasonable as you have only misinformation and no evidence therefore no argument.

[stannrodd]

Perhaps you should go and play in your own forum .. you know the one linked in your signature .. where you seem to be all the members, mods and admin.

Do you like talking to yourself mate??

You spend a lot of time copying and pasting to and from THAT resource.

You didn't last long at Jack Bloods forum did you... your reputation as a forum shit stirrer preceded you by months.

And quoting the failed PhD Ron Larsen as being some kind of expert doesn't wash amongst real intellectuals. If he is so ferking clever why is he running a bullshit web radio station? Trying to save America Huh ?

Your post above is simply a load of dingoes kidneys.

See you around
Stann xx

[tabea_blumenschein]

(numerous misleading quotes)


Kevin82, the so-called "9/11 truth movement" has a long history of editing quotes to make them look damning when they really aren't. I don't have the time (or inclination) to go through every single quote you posted, but I'll examine enough of them to prove my point. I hope.

Here are several of your quotes, first given just as you cut-and-pasted them, and then with the context included:

Quote as given in kevin82's post:

Craig Carlsen -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Ladder 8]
... you just heard explosions coming from building two, the south tower. It seemed like it took forever, but there were about ten explosions.

Here is the quote in proper context:

... you just heard explosions coming from building two, the south tower. It seemed like it took forever, but there were about ten explosions. At the time I didn't realize what it was. We realized later after talking and finding out that it was the floors collapsing to where the plane had hit. We then realized the building started to come down".

~

Quote as given in kevin82's post:

Dominick Derubbio -- Battalion Chief (F.D.N.Y.) [Division 8]
It was weird how it started to come down. It looked like it was a timed explosion ...

Here is the quote with proper context:

It was weird how it started to come down. It looked like it was a timed explosion, but I guess it was just the floors starting to pancake one on top of the other.

~

Quote as given in brian82's post:

Brian Dixon -- Battalion Chief (F.D.N.Y.)
... the lowest floor of fire in the south tower actually looked like someone had planted explosives around it because the whole bottom I could see -- I could see two sides of it and the other side -- it just looked like that floor blew out. I looked up and you could actually see everything blew out on the one floor. I thought, geez, this looks like an explosion up there, it blew out.

Here is the quote in proper context:

... the lowest floor of fire in the south tower actually looked like someone had planted explosives around it because the whole bottom I could see -- I could see two sides of it and the other side -- it just looked like that floor blew out. I looked up and you could actually see everything blew out on the one floor. I thought, geez, this looks like an explosion up there, it blew out. Then I guess in some sense of time we looked at it and realized, no, actually it just collapsed. That ís what blew out the windows, not that there was an explosion there but that windows blew out.

~
Quote as given in kevin82's post:

Jay Swithers -- Captain (E.M.S.)
I took a quick glance at the building and while I didn't see it falling, I saw a large section of it blasting out, which led me to believe it was just an explosion. I thought it was a secondary device, but I knew that we had to go.

Here is the quote in proper context:

When I was giving her the oxygen, setting up the tank, you could hear a loud rumble. Somebody said run for your life. I turned to see who was yelling "run".

At that point I looked back and most of the people who were triaged in that area with the triage tags on them got up and ran. I took a quick glance at the building and while I didn't see it falling, I saw a large section of it blasting out, which led me to believe it was just an explosion. I thought it was a secondary device, but I knew that we had to go.

But one thing that did happen was an ambulance pulled up which was very clean, S0 I assumed that the vehicle had not been in the - what I thought was an explosion at the time, but was the first collapse.

~

Quote as given in kevin82's post:

Albert Turi -- Deputy Assistant Chief (F.D.N.Y.)
And as my eyes traveled up the building, and I was looking at the south tower, somewhere about halfway up, my initial reaction was there was a secondary explosion, and the entire floor area, a ring right around the building blew out.

Here is the quote with proper context:

And as my eyes traveled up the building, and I was looking at the south tower,somewhere about halfway up, my initial reaction was there was a secondary explosion, and the entire floor area, a ring right around the building blew out. I later realized that the building had started to collapse already and this was the air being compressed and that is the floor that let go.

Brian82, the people who put these lists together know how to read. Take another look at the context that these unknown "truthers" left out, and be honest with yourself. Do you really think that those were all innocent mistakes?

Or is the "truth" movement telling lies of ommision?

~

I also note that several of the quotes in brian82's post already have the necessary context to show that the sounds heard weren't high explosives. Here they are, with bolding where necessary:

Gary Gates -- Lieutenant (F.D.N.Y.)
So the explosion, what I realized later, had to be the start of the collapse. It was the way the building appeared to blowout from both sides. I'm looking at the face of it, and all we see is the two sides of the building just blowing out and coming apart like this, as I said, like the top of a volcano.

Gregg Hansson -- Lieutenant (F.D.N.Y.)
Then a large explosion took place. In my estimation that was the tower coming down, but at that time I did not know what that was. I thought some type of bomb had gone off.

Joseph Meola -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Engine 91]
As we are looking up at the building, what I saw was, it looked like the building was blowing out on all four sides. We actually heard the pops. Didn't realize it was the falling -- you know, you heard the pops of the building. You thought it was just blowing out.

David Timothy -- E.M.T. (E.M.S.)
The next thing I knew, you started hearing more explosions. I guess this is when the second tower started coming down.

And here's one where the collapse of the tower itself is specifically described as sounding like a series of explosions:

Stephen Viola -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.)
... that's when the south tower collapsed, and it sounded like a bunch of explosions.

I can only assume from quotes like these that the people who compile the lists -- or who cut-and-paste them to other websites -- don't even bother reading the quotes. They just skim through, see the word "explosion", and figure that it's incriminating.

Again, this doesn't reflect well on an organization that styles itself as a "truth" movement.

~

I will also refer interested readers to Ryan Mackey's whitepaper, "On Debunking 9/11 Debunking". This whitepaper includes an in-depth analysis of 18 quotations used by Dr. David Ray Griffin in his book Debunking 9/11 Debunking. One of the quotes examined is the Karin DeShore quote found in kevin82's post. This whitepaper is available in both .pdf (http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/Mackey_drg_nist_review_2_1.pdf) and .doc (http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/Mackey_drg_nist_review_2_1.doc) format.

There is also this analysis (http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/whattheyheard) at "Links for 9/11 Research" that examines how the 9/11 "truth" movement distorts and manipulates eyewitness and firefighter testimony to serve its own purpose.

[tabea_blumenschein]

* The speed in which the towers fell

Yeah, what about it?

* The lack of floors after the destruction indicates they could not have 'pancaked'

What do you mean by "lack of floors after the destruction" and why is this evidence that they could not have pancaked?

* Hundreds of tonnes of debris is blown outward visually not adhering to the rules of gravity alone

I have a simple "momentum transfer" collapse model on a spreadsheet, which gives me an estimate for the downward speed of the falling mass for every floor. If a steel beam at the edge of the falling mass ricochets outward without losing much speed, my spreadsheet model predicts it can theoretically end up over 600 feet away from the tower. There are other ways material can be hurled away from the collapsing building as well.

* The sheer volume of material that is pulverised whilst in mid-collapse in an explosive manner

Thousands of tons of collapsing mass will be pretty effective at pulverizing things.

* The long list of firefighters who describe explosions secondary to any plane impact

Dealt with in my previous post.

* The firefighters who describe flashes or rings of light before initiation

Dealt with in Ryan Mackey's whitepaper, linked to in my previous post.

* The visible flashes through the towers' facade in HQ videos

Probably reflections of light, lens flare, etc.

* The large explosion in the sub level before the plane impact in the north tower

Probably a reference to William Rodriguez' testimony, dealt with at depth here (http://911stories.googlepages.com/home).

* The substance leaking out the south tower's corner which is akin to metal undergoing a thermic reaction

Nah. Probably aluminum that had been melted by the fires spilling out when the floor sagged.

* The pyroclastic surge of ultra fine materials sweeping through Manhattan after each collapse

Please look up the word "pyroclastic". You're embarrasing yourself.

* The fires are barely even visable from each tower

Are we looking at the same pictures?

* The black smoke indicates fires which are not of a optimum temperature

Is this fire at less than optimum temperature? (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_pictures/7528258.stm)

* The recordings released of the firefighting operations have a firechief standing close to the impact zone of the south tower describing fires that are extinguishable with 2 lines of firefighters

Chief Orio Palmer's radio report, right? Chief Palmer was on floor 78 of tower 2, which was several floors below where the main infernoes were burning.

* The whitish smoke emitting from the base of the towers before collapse

Haven't heard this one; what are the details?

* The powerdowns in each tower in the months before 9/11

Dealt with here. (http://www.911myths.com/html/wtc_power_down.html)

* Eye witness reports of drilling around the north tower leaving fine dust covered window cills

I can't think of anything to say here that wouldn't be sarcastic.

* The sheer number of relevant professionals who support a controlled demolition hypothesis

Never been to a quack MD, I take it? There are incompetents in every profession. If you're referring to Gage's group, we skeptics are underwhelmed by their presentations, to say the very least.

* The spire of the north tower's antenna drops in advance to the collapse from the impact zone

The "upper block" tipped slightly before collapsing downward, which gave the illusion of the antenna dropping on one of the videos.

* Fema turned up in New York with their mobile headquarters on September 10

Even if they did, so what?

* Relevant professional who have studies dust samples have found traces of both reacted and non reacted nano thermite

They found paint, most likely contaminated. The energy densities of the samples don't resemble thermite at all. Also, they didn't establish a chain of custody for the samples, which throws the results out of court right there.

* Visible explosions occuring in the North tower perfectly coinciding with the plane striking into the South tower

Pressure wave from the plane impact passing through the enfernoes, perhaps?

[noewhan]

Truther: The twin towers were brought down with explosives!

Rational person: Then why isn't there a loud series of explosions preceding the collapses, like you hear on every video documenting the controlled demolition of a building?


William Rodriguez... He herd explosions before the 1st plane.

Rational person = someone who can not research properly.

[fanoftruth]

* Eye witness reports of drilling around the north tower leaving fine dust covered window cills.

"I can't think of anything to say here that wouldn't be sarcastic" - tabea

Come on, you're a Jref'er and time and time again on this board you write immaturely and insultingly. People who post on Jref aren't expected to have manners so you may as well answer this one as sarcastically as you like. :D

[kevin82]

* The speed in which the towers fell

Yeah, what about it?

* The lack of floors after the destruction indicates they could not have 'pancaked'

What do you mean by "lack of floors after the destruction" and why is this evidence that they could not have pancaked?

* Hundreds of tonnes of debris is blown outward visually not adhering to the rules of gravity alone

I have a simple "momentum transfer" collapse model on a spreadsheet, which gives me an estimate for the downward speed of the falling mass for every floor. If a steel beam at the edge of the falling mass ricochets outward without losing much speed, my spreadsheet model predicts it can theoretically end up over 600 feet away from the tower. There are other ways material can be hurled away from the collapsing building as well.

* The sheer volume of material that is pulverised whilst in mid-collapse in an explosive manner

Thousands of tons of collapsing mass will be pretty effective at pulverizing things.

* The long list of firefighters who describe explosions secondary to any plane impact

Dealt with in my previous post.

* The firefighters who describe flashes or rings of light before initiation

Dealt with in Ryan Mackey's whitepaper, linked to in my previous post.

* The visible flashes through the towers' facade in HQ videos

Probably reflections of light, lens flare, etc.

* The large explosion in the sub level before the plane impact in the north tower

Probably a reference to William Rodriguez' testimony, dealt with at depth here (http://911stories.googlepages.com/home).

* The substance leaking out the south tower's corner which is akin to metal undergoing a thermic reaction

Nah. Probably aluminum that had been melted by the fires spilling out when the floor sagged.

* The pyroclastic surge of ultra fine materials sweeping through Manhattan after each collapse

Please look up the word "pyroclastic". You're embarrasing yourself.

* The fires are barely even visable from each tower

Are we looking at the same pictures?

* The black smoke indicates fires which are not of a optimum temperature

Is this fire at less than optimum temperature? (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_pictures/7528258.stm)

* The recordings released of the firefighting operations have a firechief standing close to the impact zone of the south tower describing fires that are extinguishable with 2 lines of firefighters

Chief Orio Palmer's radio report, right? Chief Palmer was on floor 78 of tower 2, which was several floors below where the main infernoes were burning.

* The whitish smoke emitting from the base of the towers before collapse

Haven't heard this one; what are the details?

* The powerdowns in each tower in the months before 9/11

Dealt with here. (http://www.911myths.com/html/wtc_power_down.html)

* Eye witness reports of drilling around the north tower leaving fine dust covered window cills

I can't think of anything to say here that wouldn't be sarcastic.

* The sheer number of relevant professionals who support a controlled demolition hypothesis

Never been to a quack MD, I take it? There are incompetents in every profession. If you're referring to Gage's group, we skeptics are underwhelmed by their presentations, to say the very least.

* The spire of the north tower's antenna drops in advance to the collapse from the impact zone

The "upper block" tipped slightly before collapsing downward, which gave the illusion of the antenna dropping on one of the videos.

* Fema turned up in New York with their mobile headquarters on September 10

Even if they did, so what?

* Relevant professional who have studies dust samples have found traces of both reacted and non reacted nano thermite

They found paint, most likely contaminated. The energy densities of the samples don't resemble thermite at all. Also, they didn't establish a chain of custody for the samples, which throws the results out of court right there.

* Visible explosions occuring in the North tower perfectly coinciding with the plane striking into the South tower

Pressure wave from the plane impact passing through the enfernoes, perhaps?

Your accusing me of copy and pasting ^ :D Where did I personally say thermite was used?? I was refering to Bollyns article about thermite. Your doing typical debunker tactics, just going off on another topic about 50 different things which has nothing to do with the thread. Have you noticed everything you posted on this thread has absolutely nothing with Christopher Bollyn's research??:rolleyes:

[supersmell]

His research is irrelevant since there was no nanothermite.

[gamolon]

William Rodriguez... He herd explosions before the 1st plane.

Rational person = someone who can not research properly.

He did?

Can you tell me what William used as a time reference as to come to the conclusion that the explosions he heard happened before the plane hit the tower?

Can you also explain Williams quote from this site http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/11/new.york.terror/
"We heard a loud rumble, then all of a sudden we heard another rumble like someone moving a whole lot of furniture," Rodriguez said. "And then the elevator opened and a man came into our office and all of his skin was off."

How does "a rumble like someone moving a whole lot of furniture" compare to an explosion? Why the change in his story?

[tabea_blumenschein]

Your accusing me of copy and pasting ^ :D Where did I personally say thermite was used?? I was refering to Bollyns article about thermite. Your doing typical debunker tactics, just going off on another topic about 50 different things which has nothing to do with the thread. Have you noticed everything you posted on this thread has absolutely nothing with Christopher Bollyn's research??:rolleyes:

I agree, kevin82, your thread seems to have been derailed. But not by me. In my first post on this thread, I expressed my skepticism that thermite could have been used to cause the collapse of the towers. That is what Christopher Bollyn is hypothesizing, correct? My second and third posts on this thread are responses to replies made by others -- the first by yourself, and the second by fanoftruth.

So it wasn't me who went off on another topic; it was yourself and fanoftruth. If you would like to further discuss issues raised in your posts but don't want to do it here; feel free to start another thread.

By the way, wasn't that list of firefighter quotes copied and pasted from somewhere?

William Rodriguez... He herd explosions before the 1st plane.

Rational person = someone who can not research properly.

Did you read my response to fanoftruth's list of points? If you did, then you would have noticed that I linked to a skeptical examination of William Rodriguez' story. Here is the link once again. (http://911stories.googlepages.com/home)

I would also be very interested in your answers to gamelon's questions.

* Eye witness reports of drilling around the north tower leaving fine dust covered window cills.

"I can't think of anything to say here that wouldn't be sarcastic" - tabea

Come on, you're a Jref'er and time and time again on this board you write immaturely and insultingly. People who post on Jref aren't expected to have manners so you may as well answer this one as sarcastically as you like. :D

Drilling around the north tower (but apparently not the south)? Fine dust covered window sills? C'mon, fanoftruth ...

Seriously, there are any number of mundane things you might want to do in a large building that would require drilling. Anything from doing a bit of rewiring to remodelling an office to just hanging some pictures. But prepping a building for demolition? With what, Black and Decker cordless drills and firecrackers?

Honestly, what you're insinuating is so insanely farfetched I simply can't take it seriously.

[tabea_blumenschein]

Here are more quotes from kevin82's list, followed by the context the "truthers" leave out:


Quote as given in kevin82's post:

Michael Donovan -- Captain (F.D.N.Y.)
I thought there had been an explosion or a bomb that they had blown up there.

Here is the quote with proper context -- Captain Donovan is actually describing one of the plane impacts. See how blatently dishonest the truthers who compile these lists are?

We heard the plane briefly, the earth shook, the buildings shook, a tremendous fireball overhead. I thought there was a bomb or an explosion. A tremendous fireball, flaming debris, pieces of the airplane, fuselage, landing gear, pieces of the building.

The roar became tremendous. I fell on the way to the parking garages. Debris was starting to fall all around me. I got up, I got into the parking garages, was knocked down by the percussion. I thought there had been an explosion or a bomb that they had blown up there. The Vista International Hotel was my first impression, that they had blown it up. I never got to see the World Trade Center coming down.

~

Quote as given in kevin82's post:

Janice Olszewski -- Captain (E.M.S.)
I thought it was an explosion or a secondary device, a bomb, the jet -- plane exploding, whatever.

Here is the quote with proper context:

I didn’t know what was going on. I didn’t know it was a collapse at that point. I thought it was an explosion or a secondary device, a bomb, the jet --- plane exploding, whatever.

~

Quote as given in kevin82's post:

Thomas Turilli -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.)
... it almost actually that day sounded like bombs going off, like boom, boom, boom, like seven or eight, and then just a huge wind gust just came.

Here is the quote with proper context. Mr. Turilli is describing his experience inside the north tower as the south tower collapses.

The door closed, they went up, and it just seemed a couple seconds and all of a sudden you just heard like it almost actually that day sounded like bombs going off, like boom, boom, boom, like seven or eight, and then just a huge wind gust just came and my officer just actually took all of us and just threw us down on the ground and kind of just jumped on top of us, laid on top of us.

~

Quote as given in kevin82's post:

John Malley -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Ladder 22]
I felt the rumbling, and then I felt the force coming at me. I was like, what the hell is that? In my mind it was a bomb going off.

Here is the quote with proper context. Mr. Malley was in the north tower lobby when the south tower collapsed.

As we walked through those revolving doors, that's when we felt the rumble. I felt the rumbling, and then I felt the force coming at me. I was like, what the hell is that? In my mind it was a bomb going off. The pressure got so great, I stepped back behind the columns separating the revolving doors. Then the force just blew past me. It blew past me it seemed for a long time. In my mind I was saying what the hell is this and when is it going to stop?

Then it finally stopped, that pressure which I thought was a concussion of an explosion. It turns out it was the down pressure wind of the floors collapsing on top of each other. At that point everything went black, and then the collapse came.

~

Quote as given in kevin82's post:

James Drury -- Assistant Commissioner (F.D.N.Y.)
I should say that people in the street and myself included thought that the roar was so loud that the explosive - bombs were going off inside the building.

Here is the quote with proper context:

When the dust started to settle, I headed back down towards the World Trade Center and I guess I came close to arriving at the corner of Vesey and West again where we started to hear the second roar. That was the north tower now coming down. I should say that people in the street and myself included thought that the roar was so loud that the explosive - bombs were going off inside the building. Obviously we were later proved wrong.

[kevin82]

Originally Posted by tabea_blumenschein

Here are more quotes from kevin82's list, followed by the context the "truthers" leave out:


Quote as given in kevin82's post:



Janice Olszewski -- Captain (E.M.S.)
I thought it was an explosion or a secondary device, a bomb, the jet -- plane exploding, whatever.

Here is the quote with proper context:



I didn’t know what was going on. I didn’t know it was a collapse at that point. I thought it was an explosion or a secondary device, a bomb, the jet --- plane exploding, whatever.

She's still describing an explosion right before the tower collapsed. (benefits the truthers)
~

Quote as given in kevin82's post:



Thomas Turilli -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.)
... it almost actually that day sounded like bombs going off, like boom, boom, boom, like seven or eight, and then just a huge wind gust just came.

Here is the quote with proper context. Mr. Turilli is describing his experience inside the north tower as the south tower collapses.



The door closed, they went up, and it just seemed a couple seconds and all of a sudden you just heard like it almost actually that day sounded like bombs going off, like boom, boom, boom, like seven or eight, and then just a huge wind gust just came and my officer just actually took all of us and just threw us down on the ground and kind of just jumped on top of us, laid on top of us.

He's still describing multiple explosions going off (Benefits the truthers)

~

Quote as given in kevin82's post:


John Malley -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Ladder 22]
I felt the rumbling, and then I felt the force coming at me. I was like, what the hell is that? In my mind it was a bomb going off.

Here is the quote with proper context. Mr. Malley was in the north tower lobby when the south tower collapsed.



As we walked through those revolving doors, that's when we felt the rumble. I felt the rumbling, and then I felt the force coming at me. I was like, what the hell is that? In my mind it was a bomb going off. The pressure got so great, I stepped back behind the columns separating the revolving doors. Then the force just blew past me. It blew past me it seemed for a long time. In my mind I was saying what the hell is this and when is it going to stop?

Then it finally stopped, that pressure which I thought was a concussion of an explosion. It turns out it was the down pressure wind of the floors collapsing on top of each other. At that point everything went black, and then the collapse came.

Yes he did say that but this is what the fireman who was with John Mally said:

Kevin Gorman--FDNY Ladder 22
"John Malley, who was right behind me, I turned around for him, because he was doing something, either putting his coat on or something, and as I was looking at him I heard the explosion, looked up, and saw like three floors explode, saw the antenna coming down, and turned around and ran north."

So John Mally says he never heard an explosion but the fireman who was with him says he heard an explosion at time of the collapse. (benefits the truthers)


~

Quote as given in kevin82's post:


James Drury -- Assistant Commissioner (F.D.N.Y.)
I should say that people in the street and myself included thought that the roar was so loud that the explosive - bombs were going off inside the building.

Here is the quote with proper context:



When the dust started to settle, I headed back down towards the World Trade Center and I guess I came close to arriving at the corner of Vesey and West again where we started to hear the second roar. That was the north tower now coming down. I should say that people in the street and myself included thought that the roar was so loud that the explosive - bombs were going off inside the building. Obviously we were later proved wrong.

When he said he was proved wrong was he referring to what the 9/11 comission or the debunkers told him?? Because after he made that later proved wrong comment James drury said this at the end of the interview:

"The sight of the jumpers was horrible and the turning around and seeing that first tower come down was unbelievable. The sound it made. As I said I thought the terrorists planted explosives somewhere in the building. That's how loud it was, crackling explosive, a wall. That's about it. Any questions?"

It sounds to me like James Drury meant what he said about explosions/explosives. He mentioned it multiple times in the interview. (benefits the truthers)

[gamolon]

She's still describing an explosion right before the tower collapsed. (benefits the truthers)
~






He's still describing multiple explosions going off (Benefits the truthers)

~






Yes he did say that but this is what the fireman who was with John Mally said:

Kevin Gorman--FDNY Ladder 22
"John Malley, who was right behind me, I turned around for him, because he was doing something, either putting his coat on or something, and as I was looking at him I heard the explosion, looked up, and saw like three floors explode, saw the antenna coming down, and turned around and ran north."

So John Mally says he never heard an explosion but the fireman who was with him says he heard an explosion at time of the collapse. (benefits the truthers)


~






When he said he was proved wrong was he referring to what the 9/11 comission or the debunkers told him?? Because after he made that later proved wrong comment James drury said this at the end of the interview:

"The sight of the jumpers was horrible and the turning around and seeing that first tower come down was unbelievable. The sound it made. As I said I thought the terrorists planted explosives somewhere in the building. That's how loud it was, crackling explosive, a wall. That's about it. Any questions?"

It sounds to me like James Drury meant what he said about explosions/explosives. He mentioned it multiple times in the interview. (benefits the truthers)

So let me get this straight. When someong who is describing an event uses words like "I thought it was an explosion or "it sounded like an explosion", you immediately take their descriptions at face value and leave it at that?

Really.

So the next time a tornado blows through a city and a few people describe the sound by saying "it sounded like a freight train, you will, without question, believe that a freight train went through the town?

Or the next time someone blows a tire on their car and describes the sound by saying "it sounded like a gunshot", you will automatically believe that it was someone shooting at them and that's it?

How else would you expect someone to describe the top 1/3 of a tower coming down upon the top of the lower 2/3s? You don't think the collapse initiation could sound like an explosion?

Please explain to all of us here what exactly a collapse initiation of that magnitude SHOULD sound like. Clapping chalkboard erasers together perhaps?

[kevin82]

So let me get this straight. When someong who is describing an event uses words like "I thought it was an explosion or "it sounded like an explosion", you immediately take their descriptions at face value and leave it at that?

Really.

So the next time a tornado blows through a city and a few people describe the sound by saying "it sounded like a freight train, you will, without question, believe that a freight train went through the town?

Or the next time someone blows a tire on their car and describes the sound by saying "it sounded like a gunshot", you will automatically believe that it was someone shooting at them and that's it?

How else would you expect someone to describe the top 1/3 of a tower coming down upon the top of the lower 2/3s? You don't think the collapse initiation could sound like an explosion?

Please explain to all of us here what exactly a collapse initiation of that magnitude SHOULD sound like. Clapping chalkboard erasers together perhaps?

Thats a terrible analogy since the whole purpose of the 911 debate is about 3 buildings coming down and whether there were explosives or not in these buildings. I'm sure a 9/11 truther can present a better argument of explosives being put in these buildings than someone describing a gunshot while there tire got blown out or someone describing a frieght train:rolleyes:

Since there is footage of explosions on 9/11 like the first 10 seconds of this video it gives more credence to the explosives theory.

9/11: Total Proof That Bombs Were Planted In The Buildings! - YouTube

Let me guess those explosions were bodies falling on cars.

So when firefighters say they hear explosions before or while a collapse which their not sure of and when you look at the collapse footage you see explosions being shot out above impact point right as building is about to collapse and a fireball it lends more credence to explosions than floors falling on top of eachother.

--Kevin82--

[tabea_blumenschein]

I didn’t know what was going on. I didn’t know it was a collapse at that point. I thought it was an explosion or a secondary device, a bomb, the jet --- plane exploding, whatever.

She's still describing an explosion right before the tower collapsed. (benefits the truthers)

No, she isn't. The key phrase is the one I bolded: I didn't know it was a collapse at that point. She then proceeds to explain what she thought she might have been hearing, which could be a secondary device, a bomb, or even an exploding plane (I assume she means another plane crash or something along those lines).

The door closed, they went up, and it just seemed a couple seconds and all of a sudden you just heard like it almost actually that day sounded like bombs going off, like boom, boom, boom, like seven or eight, and then just a huge wind gust just came and my officer just actually took all of us and just threw us down on the ground and kind of just jumped on top of us, laid on top of us.

He's still describing multiple explosions going off (Benefits the truthers)

No, he's describing the sound of floors pancaking on one another. The collapse of a building as large as one of the twin towers will produce huge gusts of wind like the one described. Exploding cutter charges don't.

Here's another account, from FDNY Captain Jay Jonas, who was actually inside WTC1 as it collapsed. Note how the collapse is described as a series of booms, and also the description of the hurricane-force winds created by developing overpressure in the collapsing building.

Now, people have tried to get me to describe what it was like while the collapse was happening. It was a montage of different sounds and experiences. The sounds were a combination of sounds. This building collapsed in what’s called a pancake fashion. In other words, one floor would hit another floor and would collapse that floor and then collapse the next floor. And every time a floor would hit another floor, it created a loud boom and tremendous vibration.

The entire collapse of this 110-story building took 13 seconds. So it sounded like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, you know, like that. And every time that happened, it shook the entire building. It shook the whole floor. So every time a floor would hit another floor, we’d be literally bouncing off the floor. We were being thrown around the stairway.

There was also this very loud sound of twisting steel all around our heads. These massive steel beams and girders were just being twisted around our heads just like they were twist ties on a loaf of bread. And a very loud, like a steel screeching sound, almost like a lot of trains coming into a subway station at the same time and all of them hitting their brakes at the same time.

There was tremendous air movement with the building coming down. The air movement was so strong that one of my fireman was standing on the fourth floor. You’ve got to figure with his gear and everything on, he’s well over 200 pounds. He’s about 180 pounds and with his gear, you gotta figure he’s about 250 pounds. This wind kind of picked him up and threw him down two fights of stairs.

We were getting hit with all kinds of debris. Thank God it was nothing that was going to really hurt us, but after it was all over, it was almost like we kind of got mugged. We were all bruised up and small cuts and things like that.

And then the collapse stopped.

In a day of first experiences for everybody, well here’s another one. I can’t believe we just survived that. It was very quick and during the collapse you couldn’t help but think that this is it. It’s over. This is how it ends. I kept waiting for that big beam to hit or that big piece of concrete to come down and crush us.

It never came.

Yes he did say that but this is what the fireman who was with John Mally said:

Kevin Gorman--FDNY Ladder 22
"John Malley, who was right behind me, I turned around for him, because he was doing something, either putting his coat on or something, and as I was looking at him I heard the explosion, looked up, and saw like three floors explode, saw the antenna coming down, and turned around and ran north."

So John Mally says he never heard an explosion but the fireman who was with him says he heard an explosion at time of the collapse. (benefits the truthers)

For the record, here is a more complete transcript of Mr. Gorman's testimony:

FDNY firefighter Kevin Gorman:"Guys were giving us water, wet rags to put on our head, and we were standing there, and there was a cop I knew who came by and gave me a drink of water, and then as he was standing there, he said, "Aviation just reported that the north tower is leaning." I said, "Which way is it leaning?" He said, "This way." So we started to turn around walking. John Malley, who was right behind me, I turned around for him, because he was doing something, either putting his coat on or something, and as I was looking at him I heard the explosion, looked up, and saw like three floors explode, saw the antenna coming down, and turned around and ran north.
Q. About how long would you say it was from when the police officer told you it was leaning?
A. Within 30 seconds.

Mr. Gorman was not looking up at WTC1 when it began to collapse. The explosion he heard was the beginning of the collapse, and what he saw after he looked up is the destruction of the first few floors. The smoke, ash, soot and flames you see being expelled outwards at the base of the upper block when the collapse begins might well look like "three floors exploding" to a firefighter some 1,200 feet below.

If you insist on arguing that Mr. Gorman heard the detonation of high explosives, I'll have a few questions for you to answer. For example, why weren't windows all up and down the tower blown out by the blasts? Why weren't small pieces of debris propelled outwards at hundreds of miles per hour like shrapnel to injure or kill onlookers? Since the detonation of the explosives are supposedly what caused the collapse, why don't any of the many videos documenting the event record a series of explosions preceding the collapse of either building? And how did the explosives survive the plane impacts and fires in the first place?

When he said he was proved wrong was he referring to what the 9/11 comission or the debunkers told him?? Because after he made that later proved wrong comment James drury said this at the end of the interview:

"The sight of the jumpers was horrible and the turning around and seeing that first tower come down was unbelievable. The sound it made. As I said I thought the terrorists planted explosives somewhere in the building. That's how loud it was, crackling explosive, a wall. That's about it. Any questions?"

It sounds to me like James Drury meant what he said about explosions/explosives. He mentioned it multiple times in the interview. (benefits the truthers)

Mr. Drury is saying, basically, "the collapse of the building was so loud I thought there might have been bombs inside." I find that notion to be entirely understandable on the part of Mr. Drury, even though it turned out not to be true.

You might want to think about this question also, kevin82. If Mr. Drury meant what he said about explosions/explosives, then why did he accept that this notion "was later proved wrong"?

[tabea_blumenschein]

Thats a terrible analogy since the whole purpose of the 911 debate is about 3 buildings coming down and whether there were explosives or not in these buildings. I'm sure a 9/11 truther can present a better argument of explosives being put in these buildings than someone describing a gunshot while there tire got blown out or someone describing a frieght train:rolleyes:

Since there is footage of explosions on 9/11 like the first 10 seconds of this video it gives more credence to the explosives theory.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8n-nT-luFIw

Let me guess those explosions were bodies falling on cars.

So when firefighters say they hear explosions before or while a collapse which their not sure of and when you look at the collapse footage you see explosions being shot out above impact point right as building is about to collapse and a fireball it lends more credence to explosions than floors falling on top of eachother.

--Kevin82--


Pop-quiz for kevin82:

What are all these people describing?

Following are 16 WTC first responder descriptions of explosive noises well before the towers collapsed:

"Sounded like bombs" –Keith Murphy
"A huge explosion" –Gerard Gorman
"Sound of popping and exploding" –Alwish Monchery
"Explosions" –William Burns
"Kept hearing these large boom, boom" –Rosario Terranova
"Sounded like explosions." –Anthony Fitzgerald
"Like a shotgun going off" –Mark Meier
"Sounded like explosions" –Wilfred Barriere
"Sounded like bombs, like blockbusters" –John Murray
"You could hear explosions" –Richard Smiouskas
"Sounded like an M-80, that's how loud they were" –Tim Pearson
"Sounds like a shotgun" –Eric Ronningen
"Sounded like an explosion" –John Morabito
"There were lots of explosions" –Jeff Birnbaum
"Under the assumption that the sounds were secondary bombs." –Andrew Rodriguez
"Sounded like bombs. Like a bomb going off. I mean, it was huge." –FDNY Deputy Chief Peter Hayden

[stannrodd]

What are all these people describing?

A typical day in America ??

Stann:eek:

[tabea_blumenschein]

Well, besides that! :p

[stannrodd]

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj16/stannrodd/rofll.gif

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj16/stannrodd/hahaha.gif

[christophera]

So when firefighters say they hear explosions before or while a collapse which their not sure of and when you look at the collapse footage you see explosions being shot out above impact point right as building is about to collapse and a fireball it lends more credence to explosions than floors falling on top of eachother.

--Kevin82--

Firefighters talk about the explosions.

http://algoxy.com/psych/images/discussion_in_firehouse.mpg

See and hear the explosions and their delay. (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5860825099435530591&q=5860825099435530591&total=1&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0)

Do you recognize what kind of a detonation you are hearing? There are 2 different basic things different about what is percieved or how to describe it. That was one, this is the other, that we DID NOT HEAR.

Linear shaped charge (http://youtube.com/watch?v=tZRAbUcUkIc)

[kevin82]

If you insist on arguing that Mr. Gorman heard the detonation of high explosives, I'll have a few questions for you to answer. For example, why weren't windows all up and down the tower blown out by the blasts?

The most effective way of taking down the wtc without suspicion of controlled demolition. The trick is to distribute explosives at key points throughout the structure unlike a regular CD where explosives are placed all over.

Why weren't small pieces of debris propelled outwards at hundreds of miles per hour like shrapnel to injure or kill onlookers?

Regular controlled demolitions don't even do that:rolleyes:

Since the detonation of the explosives are supposedly what caused the collapse, why don't any of the many videos documenting the event record a series of explosions preceding the collapse of either building?

Your right they don't, but sound meteres did record it at the base of the building.

And how did the explosives survive the plane impacts and fires in the first place?

The whole building was not on fire. Only a certain section.

[leviathanstaar]

tabea_blumenschein: cliche

tabea_blumenschein: ad hominem

tabea_blumenschein: I stick out like a sore thumb in sore fingersville

tabea_blumenschein: I'm gonna go log on that other forum where I pretend Im with the Nwo

[leviathanstaar]

One other thing.

Argue all you want against every theory about what brought them down.

The number one champion of stupid of a theory, is always going to be the official story one tank of jet fuel plowing into the side.

It's total nonsense.

[tabea_blumenschein]

One other thing.

Argue all you want against every theory about what brought them down.

The number one champion of stupid of a theory, is always going to be the official story one tank of jet fuel plowing into the side.

It's total nonsense.


If you're describing the "official story" that way, you obviously don't understand it well enough to say whether it's nonsense or not.

[tabea_blumenschein]

The most effective way of taking down the wtc without suspicion of controlled demolition. The trick is to distribute explosives at key points throughout the structure unlike a regular CD where explosives are placed all over.

The windows would have been blown out regardless of where the explosives were placed inside the building. Especially considering the amount of explosives the truth movement thinks were used.

Regular controlled demolitions don't even do that:rolleyes:

The truth movement attributes the steel beams landing several hundred feet away from the buildings to high explosives. If this were the case, then we would have seen huge amounts of shrapnel as well.

Your right they don't, but sound meteres did record it at the base of the building.

As I pointed out previously, the collapse itself was described as a loud series of booms. Go over to YouTube or somewhere and listen to the strings of explosions that precede the collapses in conventional CD's. Explosions like that would have been captured by every piece of equipment in the same zip-code as the towers, not just by sound meters at the bases of the buildings.

The whole building was not on fire. Only a certain section.

That's also where the collapses begain, as well as where the planes initially hit. Therefore, the explosives that hypothetically initiated the collapses would have to have survived both events.

[tabea_blumenschein]

Pop-quiz for kevin82:

What are all these people describing?

Following are 16 WTC first responder descriptions of explosive noises well before the towers collapsed:

"Sounded like bombs" –Keith Murphy
"A huge explosion" –Gerard Gorman
"Sound of popping and exploding" –Alwish Monchery
"Explosions" –William Burns
"Kept hearing these large boom, boom" –Rosario Terranova
"Sounded like explosions." –Anthony Fitzgerald
"Like a shotgun going off" –Mark Meier
"Sounded like explosions" –Wilfred Barriere
"Sounded like bombs, like blockbusters" –John Murray
"You could hear explosions" –Richard Smiouskas
"Sounded like an M-80, that's how loud they were" –Tim Pearson
"Sounds like a shotgun" –Eric Ronningen
"Sounded like an explosion" –John Morabito
"There were lots of explosions" –Jeff Birnbaum
"Under the assumption that the sounds were secondary bombs." –Andrew Rodriguez
"Sounded like bombs. Like a bomb going off. I mean, it was huge." –FDNY Deputy Chief Peter Hayden


Would anybody like to guess?

Hint: I quoted this list because it related to something kevin82 said in the post I was replying to.

[stannrodd]

The windows would have been blown out regardless of where the explosives were placed inside the building. Especially considering the amount of explosives the truth movement thinks were used.

I disagree.

The four machinery floors - two at the top of the first third of the towers and two at the top of the second third would have been ideal locations for dislocating the structural integrity. It was noted that the North Tower antenna fell before collapse commenced .. indicating a core failure and probably at the top machinery floors. Machinery floors generally do not have glass windows - more likely to have louvres or similarly vented facades.

It wouldn't take much imagination to have slow burning/rather than explosive cutter devices doing the dirty work out of sight of the offices clad in glass.

The main support columns were very accessible in these machinery floor areas.

I also keep hearing of this tabea..

.. the amount of explosives the truth movement thinks were used

I'd like to think I am allowed honest thinking in a forum, to date I have done nothing more than being anything other than a seriously interested person.

To assist the towers into a gravity powered demolition would not take much other than compromising enough of the major support columns to cause total collapse. Do you agree on that point?

It would not take months of planning and carefully planned and placed multitudinous charges. It was supposed to be a "terrorist" attack and co-lateral damage would be expected and probably planned for such that the resultant scene realized the script.

Stann