Very "planned" belief system VS no belief system

[fallensoul]

So what exactly makes some indoctrination or dogma so desirable, when the alternative is complete freedom of the mind.

You can either let others dictate what reality is and how you should view yourself, as a sinner etc, devout etc (which is life of restrictions).

Or you can define the reality yourself, and define who you are yourself. Because in the end of the day, it is always up to the individual to decide what they wish to believe in and how they view themselves.

Belief/dogma brings obvious restrictions and it limits spiritual awareness and intellectual growth.

No belief means one is seeking the truth as long as it takes, learning, growing and widening ones awareness and intelligence and wisdom every passing day.

So why become religious, or even Atheist, or even become a "believer" of science. All are just prisons to limit the growth of our infinite minds.

[miracles]

Because in the end of the day, it is always up to the individual to decide what they wish to believe in and how they view themselves.


Try being a little more tolerant of the above, which you quoted, and which you espouse in your signature.

[fallensoul]

Because in the end of the day, it is always up to the individual to decide what they wish to believe in and how they view themselves.
Exactly, but why take a dogma over freedom of choice, like I mean the kind of freedom where your belief system is able to change and evolve when you grow and learn more.

Why take the alternative, ie religious beliefs. I know you can grow and gain deeper understanding of the particular faith, but it limits you to that one faith alone.

Miracles I see you took me of ignore, I am glad, since I know you will be around to debate when the weaker minds have gone :)

I never in my opinion push my beliefs tho, I just talk my mind, if I came across as trying to push my beliefs on you that was not intentional.

[miracles]

Exactly, but why take a dogma over freedom of choice, like I mean the kind of freedom where your belief system is able to change and evolve when you grow and learn more.

Why take the alternative, ie religious beliefs. I know you can grow and gain deeper understanding of the particular faith, but it limits you to that one faith alone.

Miracles I see you took me of ignore, I am glad, since I know you will be around to debate when the weaker minds have gone :)

I never in my opinion push my beliefs tho, I just talk my mind, if I came across as trying to push my beliefs on you that was not intentional.

Because, young man, it is freedom of choice to believe the dogma. In some cases it is desperation too. Quite simple. Having said that, I have needed other help from people other than religious people to lead me to my freedom. Im not closed minded, but the God of my understanding is the God of the bible, everyone is allowed to have their own understanding, it's all we have got.

Im talking about the bible here ( IE my choice to believe it as the truth, not organised religion persay. The evidence has convinced me to my satisfaction. I have lived my life on my own terms to excess etc etc. If you read eccelsesiates you will see that lfe with out God is meaningless and vanity. I have experienced this personally. I did not choose God initially, life and pain and sorrow lead me to Him eventually. People dont come to God until they have reached the end of themselves. No man seeks after God, God seeks after men.

We are all free to talk our minds in here, keep it up, its good for you. If you are enjoying your life now and the freedom you believe you have thats excellent, we all only want to be happy and at peace.

I have many friends, all of whom are not Christians, my wife is a Chinese buddist. The best man at my wedding is gay, so is my brother. I do not judge people. I love people. I only get annoyed when people misquote the scripture out of context, because I know my bible and my God very well and He is beautiful beyond description.

PS. Good on you for putting up a thread topic to discuss your views.

[fallensoul]

I have experienced this personally. I did not choose God initially, life and pain and sorrow lead me to Him eventually.

Hey this is what lead myself into selfempowerement. So you found help and relief in god, I can understand exactly how it would help one in pain. I got the same problem, but I found myself instead :)

We are not so different when we dig deep enough, our paths well those lead into different avenues tho :)

[miracles]

Hey this is what lead myself into selfempowerement. So you found help and relief in god, I can understand exactly how it would help one in pain. I got the same problem, but I found myself instead :)

We are not so different when we dig deep enough, our paths well those lead into different avenues tho :)

Good on ya mate, your not a bad fish. :)

[tannah]

I do not judge people. I love people. I only get annoyed when people misquote the scripture out of context, because I know my bible and my God very well and He is beautiful beyond description.



There is no misquoting when someone simply asks why a God should be believed to exist that does the kind of atrocities as set out in various places in the bible.

And my motivation is to question question question. And it isn't just because it's fun. There is a serious side to this. The killings in God's name simply need to be opposed.

And the very real problem with Miracles is that he considers anyone talking to him as someone talking to Jesus and to Christianity, ergo, he's God.

I'm sick of it. Whether here or anywhere else, I will always try and ask the kind of questions meant to urge someone to wake up and not cling to BS. That doesn't mean not to believe in God. In fact it means just that, believe in a God worthy of its title.

It's an excuse to say "leave me alone and let me have the freedom of my belief". It's these very religions that haven't done that! I won't leave a potentially dangerous hipnotised belief system alone anymore. It won't be done out of hatred for the believer. I don't care if that is pinned on me.

Should we have given Hitler the freedom of his belief? Or how about some man who believes it's right to beat his wife?

Religious belief is one thing, scrutiny and a wish to alleviate potential wars because of it is another.

When a surgeon perfoms an operation on someone, it starts off being painful, but in the end will make the person better (mostly). Likewise, asking supposedly uncomfortable questions may hurt an individual who has melded a belief system , so that it practically becomes them, but for the sake of reality it has to be done.

And the problem with the line "the bible is the inspired word of God", is that the Muslims also believe their quran to be the inspired word of Allah. Why would a God wish to divide people so? So much so that millions and millions of men, women, children and animals have suffered untold pain because of it.

Miracles doesn't reason and put up his case. He simply quotes from the book, and if he doesn't like a person's questions will insult them firstly and then ignore them. That is a coward's way of holding a belief system.

So ,as he isn't reading this, I'm honoured to leave this challenge here for anyone that wishes to disagree and provide a reasoned response. The bible is a jumbled collection of other culture's myths, and a twisted fear based solution to mankind's spiritual dilemma. The only pearl residing within it is to love others. And it's in that spirit that I challenge what I regard to being blindness. Show me to be wrong if you can, by using reason, not by ignoring the questions.

[supertzar]

I try not to believe anything if I can help it. Since I have practiced this ideal I have experienced my understanding increase dramatically. Therefore I propose that belief is inversely related to understanding. In the vastness of the universe surely there is always a better way to understand a given thing, so why settle on a particular belief?

[fallensoul]

I try not to believe anything if I can help it. Since I have practiced this ideal I have experienced my understanding increase dramatically. Therefore I propose that belief is inversely related to understanding. In the vastness of the universe surely there is always a better way to understand a given thing, so why settle on a particular belief?

Well said, understanding can evolve.

[tannah]

I try not to believe anything if I can help it. Since I have practiced this ideal I have experienced my understanding increase dramatically. Therefore I propose that belief is inversely related to understanding. In the vastness of the universe surely there is always a better way to understand a given thing, so why settle on a particular belief?

Yep. Beliefs are attachments, and they bear their fruits eventually.
Beliefs are a settling for less. It's settling for the 000001%.
Better to build reality on Reason.

[kidsarocker]

Should we have given Hitler the freedom of his belief? Or how about some man who believes it's right to beat his wife?


Err..not sure what youy are trying to imply here. Don't you think that Hitler or the abusive man would have chosen them choice by either A) their restrictive belief system and b) their freedom of choice?