a question (dont get angry) [Archive] - David Icke's Official Forums

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om1234

12-02-2007, 11:32 PM

thirdwave

12-02-2007, 11:38 PM

THEORETICALLY SPEAKING:

how do you rekon the illumintati would react if one of their own top guys were assasinated by an unknown? Or do you think they exercise powers that we dont know 100% about so that they know whats gonna happen before hand .. and therefore kill or brainwash the assasin before he assasinates?

*franticly holding my head so i don't spin into a rage* :)

IMO im sure this has happened before but I'm sure people have got used to the fact that it does not get them very far as they would normally always be tracked down.... and the really important people like you say are probably watched over like hawks..

thats my view on it anyway...

om1234

12-02-2007, 11:43 PM

if someone were to come out from nowhere who knew noone and noone knew him .. and then just machine-guned every one at bohemian grove from behind a bush ... that would be pretty good!

they are making gun buying a whole lot easier .. why not use that against them?lol

do you think they have powers to be able to see whats gonna happen in the near future tho?

it would be kinda rubbish if ur lying there behind the bush (tree-bush .. not mr.bush) and suddenly you see kisinger walking towards u in his frigin repilian scales *panic*

joe_soap

12-02-2007, 11:45 PM

Who are the top illumintati guys? Are they ranked?

Can someone do the top 10?

om1234

12-02-2007, 11:48 PM

Who are the top illumintati guys? Are they ranked?

Can someone do the top 10?

thats frigin rediculous! these people go so high up and out of sight, even the people who we consider pretty near 'the top' probly dont even know who they are

joe_soap

12-02-2007, 11:55 PM

I guess it's best to just kill everyone then

trinity1

12-02-2007, 11:56 PM

Before answering this question I would like to know exactly who these "Illuminati" people are. As far as I can tell nobody can quite pinpoint who they are. Jews, Jesuits, Reptilians?

om1234

13-02-2007, 12:05 AM

Before answering this question I would like to know exactly who these "Illuminati" people are. As far as I can tell nobody can quite pinpoint who they are. Jews, Jesuits, Reptilians?

thats like asking: who are these dogs? ... labrodors? rottweilers? spaniels?? chiwawas?? dashhounds??? jack russles????

no no no.. they are abit of all ...

illuminati are not a breed! they are plain evil people .... you can find evil in any breed!

if you want a breed.. here: illuminati are: evil people who have met together and joined together through anitiation and are conspiering and have conspierd for world dominance

thats probly the nearest you're gonna get.

actually no.. i lie ... 'ILLUMINATI' ... that IS the breed.

dont ask; who are the illuminati ... that is who they are... all you have to do now, if find out what they do.

(correct me if im wrong please)

neondestiny

13-02-2007, 12:14 AM

"If" the illuminati exists, no-one would be able to tell you who the top is anyway.
2 wrongs don't make a right, to kill them, wouldn't you have to become like them?

rastamasta

13-02-2007, 12:23 AM

As far as I can tell nobody can quite pinpoint who they are?

Disembodied interdimentional entites that are not human. Some people would call them Demons. Thats just IMHO.

om1234

13-02-2007, 12:24 AM

"If" the illuminati exists, no-one would be able to tell you who the top is anyway.
2 wrongs don't make a right, to kill them, wouldn't you have to become like them?

i know ... that is exactly why i started with:

I'm asking theoretically .. i know that we should 'fight war with peace not war with war'

truthsupplier

13-02-2007, 12:28 AM

As to "who are these people"... you have bitten off a mighty large bite there!

"These People" have had both oars in the water for generations, as David expresses, it is no longer a "conspiracy", rather an Agenda of individuals who have designated your DNA that of "worthless eaters". Don`t you feel like a virus which consumes (we are educated on how to be good consumers, huh?) without replenishing and reproduces with abandon. I can`t seem to "wrap myself around" the idea, a slice of mankind has deemed themselves my superior, and one of the main reasons is my "bloodline" or my Ancestry lacks the appropriate name...

Competent thought has been engineered out of our requisite capabilities and the ability to blindly follow (regardless of who is "leading" or where that might place them in eventuality) has replaced it as "politically correct".

Got Google? They will give you the "pasteurized/homogenized" version but "Hollyweird" has already shown you the thirteen chairs (See, Tomb Raider... there MUST be enough reality to condemn "suspecions" and have you be content with a "good movie". Pretty smart.

trinity1

13-02-2007, 12:32 AM

Disembodied interdimentional entites that are not human. Some people would call them Demons. Thats just IMHO.

If this is so, what is your opinion on why they would come and mess with a piddling little planet like ours?

I respect your opinion, however, I feel that it is easier to use interdimensional entities as a scapegoat for human "evil" than to face the darkness that is inside all of us and that is manifesting itself through these "Illuminati".

trinity1

13-02-2007, 12:34 AM

curthen

13-02-2007, 01:09 AM

Illuminati LOL
That is just one branch from the Freemason Tree.
Its rather a popular term now isn't it?
They want you to think it's the Bee all and End all?
It is why the term is spread over the Internet.

rastamasta

13-02-2007, 01:13 AM

If this is so, what is your opinion on why they would come and mess with a piddling little planet like ours?

Heres some info and its not just our planet they piss about with.

Bowing to mankind

According to the Quran, when God created man, He wanted His angels to acknowledge man by bowing down to him, but some did not obey His mandate.

A later mention of this idea can be found in "Vita Adae et Evae", an apocryphal text which most scholars agree was written somewhere near the end of the 10th century AD.

XIII: The devil replied, 'Adam, what dost thou tell me? It is for thy sake that I have been hurled from that place. When thou wast formed, I was hurled out of the presence of God and banished from the company of the angels. When God blew into thee the breath of life and thy face and likeness was made in the image of God, Michael also brought thee and made (us) worship thee in the sight of God; and God the Lord spake: Here is Adam. I have made thee in our image and likeness.'

XIV: And Michael went out and called all the angels saying: 'Worship the image of God as the Lord God hath commanded.' And Michael himself worshipped first; then he called me and said: 'Worship the image of God the Lord.' And I answered, 'I have no (need) to worship Adam.' And since Michael kept urging me to worship, I said to him, 'Why dost thou urge me? I will not worship an inferior and younger being. I am his senior in the Creation, before he was made was I already made. It is his duty to worship me.'

XV: When the angels who were under me heard this, they refused to worship him. And Michael saith, 'Worship the image of God, but if thou wilt not worship him, the Lord God will be wroth with thee.' And I said, 'If He be wroth with me, I will set my seat above the stars of heaven and will be like the Highest.'

Anon. Vita Adae et Evae, 13–15. [2]

Fallen angel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

and here's some more

FALL OF ANGELS:

By : Emil G. Hirsch

In Apocalyptic Writings. The conception of fallen angels—angels who, for wilful, rebellious conduct against God, or through weakness under temptation.thereby forfeiting their angelic dignity, were degraded and condemned to a life of mischief or shame on earth or in a place of punishment—is wide-spread.

Indications of this belief, behind which probably lies the symbolizing of an astronomical phenomenon, the shooting stars, are met with in Isa. xiv. 12 (comp. Job xxxviii. 31, 32; see Constellations). But it is in apocalyptic writings that this notion assumes crystallized definiteness and is brought into relations with the theological problem of the origin and nature of evil and sin.

That Satan fell from heaven with the velocity of lightning is a New Testament conception (Luke x. 18; Rev. xii. 7-10). Originally Satan was one of God's angels, Lucifer, who, lusting for worldly power, was degraded. Samael (Yalk., Gen. 25), originally the chief of the angels around God's throne, becomes the angel of death and the "chieftain of all the Satans" (Deut. R. xi. ; comp. Matt. xxv. 41).

But it is especially Samḥazai and Azael of whom the fall is narrated. In Targ. Pseudo-Jonathan to Gen. vi. 4 they appear as the "nefilim" (A. V. "giants"), undoubtedly in consequence of an incorrect interpretation of this word as "those that fell from heaven." The story of these two angels is found in brief form in Yalḳ., Gen. 44; it has been published by Jellinek ("B. H." iv. 127; originally in Midrash Abkir; comp. Rashi, Yoma 67b; Geiger, "Was Hat Mohammed aus dem Judenthume Aufgenommen?" p. 107).

Woman the Cause of Fall.

As in the case of man, so in that of the angels woman was the cause of the lapse. Naamah, the wife of Noah (Gen. R. xxiii. 3), was one of the women whose great beauty tempted the angels to sin (Naḥmanides to Gen. iv. 22). As regards Azazel and Samḥazai, mentioned above, it was a young woman named ("Isṭar," "Esther") that proved fatal to their virtue. These angels, seeing God's grief over the corruption of the sons of men (Gen. vi. 2-7), volunteered to descend to earth for the purpose of proving their contention that, as they had foretold at the creation of Adam, the weakness of man (Ps. viii. 5) was alone responsible for his immorality. In their new surroundings they themselves yielded to the blandishments of women. Samḥazai especially became passionately enamored of Isṭar. She, however, would yield to his importunities only on the condition that he tell her the name of Yhwh (see God, Names of), by virtue of which he was éo return to heaven. As soon as she was possessed of the secret, she rose to heaven herself, and God rewarded her constancy by assigning her a place in the constellation of Kimah. Samḥazai and his companion thereupon took to themselves wives and begat children (comp. the bene Elohim, Gen. vi. 4). Meṭaṭron soon after sends word to Samḥazai concerning the approaching flood. This announcement of the world's and his own children's impending doom brings Samḥazai to repentance, and he suspends himself midway between heaven and earth, in which penitent position he has remained ever since. Azazel, who deals in rich adornments and fine garments for women, continues in his evil ways, seducing men by his fanciful wares (hence the goat sent to Azazel on the Day of Atonement).
Variants of this story are not rare. According to Pirḳe R. El. xxii., "the angels that fell from heaven," seeing the shameless attire of the men and women in Cain's family, had intercourse with the women, and in consequence were deprived of their garment of flaming fire and were clothed in ordinary material of dust. They also lost their angelic strength and stature. Samael was the leader of a whole band of rebellious angels (ib. xiii.).

In the Book of Enoch eighteen angels are named (Enoch, vi. 7) as chief participators in the conspiracy to mate with women. Samiaza is the leader, and Azael is one of the number (but see Charles, "Book of Enoch," p. 61, note to vi.-xi.). Azael, however, imparts to men all sorts of useful as well as secret knowledge and the art of beautifying eyes (Enoch, viii. 1; comp. Targ. Pseudo-Jon. to Gen. vi. 4). For other versions of the story or reminiscences thereof, see Book of Jubilees, v. 1, 6-11; vii. 21, 25; Test. Patr., Reuben, 5, and Naphtali, 31; Josephus, "Ant." i. 3, § 1; Philo, "De Gigantibus."

Later Jewish Tradition.

The later Jewish tradition, shocked at the notion of the angels' fall, insisted upon interpreting the bene Elohim of Gen. vi. 1-4 as referring to men (Gen. R. xxvi.: "sons of judges"; comp. Tryphon in Justin, "Dial. cum Tryph." p.79). The Samaritan version reads ; Onḳelos, . The "Sefer ha-Yashar" ("Bereshit," end) ascribes the shameful conduct to magistrates and judges (see Charles, "Book of Jubilees," p. 33, note).
The cabalists give the older view. In the Zohar (iii. 208, ed. Mantua) Aza and Azael fall and are punished by being chained to the mountains of darkness. According to another passage (i. 37), these two rebelled against God and were hurled from heaven, and they now teach men all kinds of sorcery (for other quotations from cabalistic commentaries on the Pentateuch see Grünbaum, "Gesammelte Aufsäze zur Sprach- und Sagenkunde," p. 71).

Allusions to these fallen angels occur also in the Koran (sura ii. 96); but their names are there given as "Harut" and "Marut." Their fate in Arabic tradition is identical with that of Samḥazai and Azael (Geiger, l.c. p. 109). The refusal to worship Adam (suras ii. 32, vii. 11, xv. 29, xxxviii. 73) brings on the Fall, just as it does in the Midrash Bereshit Rabbati of R. Moses ha-Darshan (see Grünbaum, l.c. p. 70).

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=24&letter=F&search=Fallen%20angel

jimijams

13-02-2007, 02:40 AM

If this is so, what is your opinion on why they would come and mess with a piddling little planet like ours?

I respect your opinion, however, I feel that it is easier to use interdimensional entities as a scapegoat for human "evil" than to face the darkness that is inside all of us and that is manifesting itself through these "Illuminati".
This is my opinion for what it's worth.

I don't think this planet is what we imagine it to be. I have seen these beings after smoking DMT(the red pill)and in my mind their world is real and coexists along side ours.

Their world is not solid it is pure light, this is what I believe we are too but for some reason we have been made prisoners in this solid 3d world and forgotten who we really are, taking DMT briefly releases you from the bonds of the physical world.

I don't know why we're here, maybe for lessons to be learnt, some kind of punishment, to be farmed like livestock or maybe it is just some form of hitech virtual reality machine we're hooked up to for our own entertainment(this is my preference). If you think about it 70 or 80 yrs on this planet would just be a brief flash in the pan if you're infinite, which is what I believe we really are.

Please take my view with a grain of salt because what I experienced was for me only it may not vibe with you, even what I've stated here goes nowhere near properly describing my experience because the English language does not suffice to do so.

Anyway happy days and on with the show!:D

jimijams

13-02-2007, 02:59 AM

This is a painting by Luke Brown a brilliant psychedelic artist, he painted this after smoking DMT and this is very similar to one of the entities I had the pleasure of meeting..

http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/7748/namesteholoubm5.gif (http://imageshack.us)

sean

13-02-2007, 03:00 AM

Wow. What an amazing image. Any more like that?

trinity1

13-02-2007, 03:05 AM

This is my opinion for what it's worth.

I don't think this planet is what we imagine it to be. I have seen these beings after smoking DMT(the red pill)and in my mind their world is real and coexists along side ours.

Their world is not solid it is pure light, this is what I believe we are too but for some reason we have been made prisoners in this solid 3d world and forgotten who we really are, taking DMT briefly releases you from the bonds of the physical world.

I don't know why we're here, maybe for lessons to be learnt, some kind of punishment, to be farmed like livestock or maybe it is just some form of hitech virtual reality machine we're hooked up to for our own entertainment(this is my preference). If you think about it 70 or 80 yrs on this planet would just be a brief flash in the pan if you're infinite, which is what I believe we really are.

Please take my view with a grain of salt because what I experienced was for me only it may not vibe with you, even what I've stated here goes nowhere near properly describing my experience because the English language does not suffice to do so.

Anyway happy days and on with the show!:D

I've never done DMT, but have done a variety of different drugs which definitely helped me see things a lot differently.

However, how can we be sure that what we experience on drugs isn't "just" an hallucination? A drug alters the chemical reactions in the brain thus altering our perceptions. Isn't that what it is, merely an altered perception? No more true or false than any other perception?

Whichever, I'm certainly open to any possibility when it comes to the subject of "reality". Since I believe the universe to be infinite it would be silly to deny the possibility of what you said.

jimijams

13-02-2007, 03:10 AM

Wow. What an amazing image. Any more like that?
http://spectraleyes.com/gallery/artworx http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/8348/hifivewy1.gif (http://imageshack.us)

jimijams

13-02-2007, 03:17 AM

However, how can we be sure that what we experience on drugs isn't "just" an hallucination?
The simple answer is you can't be sure of anything in life, even so if we are able to create visions in our mind like that by merely altering brain chemistry doesn't that raise enough questions in it's self?

Anyway like I said this was a personal experience, you need this experience yourself to ever answer that question properly because I don't have the words.

jimijams

13-02-2007, 03:25 AM

I've never done DMT, but have done a variety of different drugs which definitely helped me see things a lot differently.
I've done most drugs known to mankind at different times, but DMT is like nothing else.
For one it isn't a drug anyway, it is a molecule that is already produced by our brain and it's by increasing the dose that creates the visions.
It's very hard to obtain and I don't recommend it for the faint hearted.

trinity1

13-02-2007, 03:37 AM

I've done most drugs known to mankind at different times, but DMT is like nothing else.
For one it isn't a drug anyway, it is a molecule that is already produced by our brain and it's by increasing the dose that creates the visions.
It's very hard to obtain and I don't recommend it for the faint hearted.

Yes I've heard it's quite a trip. I doubt very much I'd be able to get hold of it around my part of the world but I'd surely like to try, just once.

truthsupplier

13-02-2007, 03:51 AM

As a "child of the 70`s", my personal reference is supplied here.

Who designated the "keys" to expansion to be "illegal". Would it be those who would prefer you maintained the "blinder ethic" so as to not upset an applecart you might stumble upon? I was aware when I mounted my "soapbox" and began the "education of the sheeple" it was a worthy venue of effort... what I had not counted on was the placid attitude of those who were being abused by a "system" they not only didn`t design, they were helpless to awaken to, if not properly introduced at a scale where the "denial train" was not supplied.

Most of the "ceremonial practices" of Holy Men and Shamans were accompanied by some means of organic hallucinogen be it mushroom, cactus pods [peyote buttons are great stuff, just remember to scrape out the "white fur"), herbal teas, etc. where a "state of harmony" was established with that which remains "unseen" until the "keys" are applied. (Make it illegal, immoral, indecent and they won`t desire to wake up and catch on... bovine excreations!! It took "stimulus" for me to grasp the enormity of the scope which Creation encompasses, and that step was necessary for the evolution of the "free thinking" mode required to comprehend how enormous the Agenda is)

My "awakening" was many moons past, and I still have desire for greenery of the kind description. A decent wine, made from non GM fruits and clear spring water is also a fetching idea on a swealtry afternoon. DMT was called "the business mans high" because after inhaling one or two small "puffs" you were "unreachable" for 45 minutes to an hour, and post application, you were as straight as you were before playing so you could return to "work" an hour later... cool designer drug, too expensive to manufacture.

jimijams

13-02-2007, 04:42 AM

Yes I've heard it's quite a trip. I doubt very much I'd be able to get hold of it around my part of the world but I'd surely like to try, just once.
Just one last point on DMT before we go too far off topic, if you have seen the Matrix I am convinced That the Wachowski brothers experimented with DMT, even the the red pill that Morpheus gives to Neo looks exactly like a dose of DMT.

The stuff I had was a small red blob of gell like a small pill only difference is you don't swallow it you smoke it in a pipe. Then just like Cypher say's in the movie 'buckle your seatbelt Dorothy cause Kansas is going bye bye'. Within 30sec you are out of the Matrix, even the sound effects and visuals they use is spot on, you then wake up as Neo did in another world, only I didn't have tubes sticking out of me because I left my physical body behind in the Matrix and was no longer solid..

Another interesting scene in the second Matrix film is when Neo is given the key by the keymaker to enter in to the room of the grand architect. As he puts the key in the door and opens it he is blinded by an intense light and there is digital like cracking sound before he enters, this is another representation of a DMT trip. When he enters to meet with the architect he is surrounded by TV screens of himself reacting in many different ways, this also happens on DMT, not so much TV screens, but your life is held up before you and you become humbled by the experience.

The painting of Namaste I posted earlier in my opinion is the grand architect of the Matrix. One final point of interest is if you see the picture below this is the DMT molecule, don't you think it looks a bit like a key?

http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/5260/dmtkg7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

truthsupplier

13-02-2007, 05:11 AM

"Man`s mind, once stretched by a new idea, never regains its original dimensions."
-Oliver Wendell Holmes-

I really like your comparing DMT to the Matrix (or the ability to recognise it as it exists), as it rings true for my experiences as well.

I was gifted the verifiable opinion "If you`re gonna pull the wool over my eyes, better weave it pretty thick" at a ridiculous age. That "awakening" I refer to as the quickening or the appreciation of being able to recognise what hid behind the smoke and mirrors. Being 18, a sophomore in College, good friends with the freaks in the chem labs and a rudimentary knowledge of "reactions", plus the direction of several "Political Science" folks... I considered myself pretty well armed as well as supplied. Experimentation was at its height in the early `70s, and there is little I regret there. Including standing on the corner in D.C., collecting signatures for NORMAL petitions.

My awakening to the Agenda (you call it the Matrix) came at a much later date and after much experience of the "what"... and the need to know why grew from there. Most of you kids are too young to remember Nixon or Reagan, `cause there is where the "Future Masters" found fertile soils...

Question for the knowledgeable... How many of the cabinet members of the last few (since Woodrow Wilson gave us the Federal Reserve) did NOT have relations or ties to the CFR? If you are American, why don`t you know?

rachel88

13-02-2007, 06:11 AM

how do you rekon the illumintati would react if one of their own top guys were assasinated by an unknown? Or do you think they exercise powers that we dont know 100% about so that they know whats gonna happen before hand .. and therefore kill or brainwash the assasin before he assasinates?

they would probly be stunned! lol it would be kinda funny, watching as they go throught there system, up the triangle, seeing how this happend, and what they wrong against the system for this to happen .... lol

if theyre reptilian, they may be able to mind read, who knows! If theyre more advanced then us... maybe!!

you know what.. they probly have someone on here, going through the forum every night to see what we're up to ... so now that you've said this they're gonna hire an extra few body guards!! :D

jimijams

13-02-2007, 06:18 AM

"Man`s mind, once stretched by a new idea, never regains its original dimensions."
-Oliver Wendell Holmes-

Aint that the truth!

father ted

13-02-2007, 07:03 AM

THEORETICALLY SPEAKING:

how do you rekon the illumintati would react if one of their own top guys were assasinated by an unknown? Or do you think they exercise powers that we dont know 100% about so that they know whats gonna happen before hand .. and therefore kill or brainwash the assasin before he assasinates?

I'm asking theoretically .. i know that we should 'fight war with peace not war with war'

Getting back to this original question, I think it was Arizona Wilder who said that, they made her use her psychic abilities to predict outcomes, for the benefit of the Illuminati to use, this includes for reasons of safety.

oneofmany

13-02-2007, 09:46 AM

I've done most drugs known to mankind at different times, but DMT is like nothing else.
For one it isn't a drug anyway, it is a molecule that is already produced by our brain and it's by increasing the dose that creates the visions.
It's very hard to obtain and I don't recommend it for the faint hearted.

It grows everywhere jimi, especially in Australia, where it's in native acacia plants of many varieties, as well as a few mushie varieties. But you are right, Impossible to get from a dealer. Best to go for a bushwalk

jimijams

13-02-2007, 10:11 AM

It grows everywhere jimi, especially in Australia, where it's in native acacia plants of many varieties, as well as a few mushie varieties. But you are right, Impossible to get from a dealer. Best to go for a bushwalk
It's extracting it thats the problem, very tricky process.. But your right Acacia trees is the best source..

oneofmany

13-02-2007, 10:59 AM

It's extracting it thats the problem, very tricky process.. But your right Acacia trees is the best source..

I remember reading on a shamanic forum that you could smoke the flower of the acacia tree without processing........Is this true?

jimijams

13-02-2007, 11:04 AM

I remember reading on a shamanic forum that you could smoke the flower of the acacia tree without processing........Is this true?

Yes, you can buy it at the happy herbs shop, but it isn't a potent as pure DMT so you don't get the full effect, just a mild trippy sensation.

oneofmany

13-02-2007, 11:16 AM

Yes, you can buy it at the happy herbs shop, but it isn't a potent as pure DMT so you don't get the full effect, just a mild trippy sensation.

I've been busting to use this ever since I heard Terence Mckenna describe Finnegan's wake. I long to be "out in the billows" as he puts it, mainly to bring knowledge and balance into my life. I need a life altering experience, and cannabis has opened my awareness enough for me to go with the flow of the experience, rather than fight it, i believe, but what's stopping me is a lack of a guide, someone to steer my experience in the right direction.

any ideas

jimijams

13-02-2007, 11:22 AM

I've been busting to use this ever since I heard Terence Mckenna describe Finnegan's wake. I long to be "out in the billows" as he puts it, mainly to bring knowledge and balance into my life. I need a life altering experience, and cannabis has opened my awareness enough for me to go with the flow of the experience, rather than fight it, i believe, but what's stopping me is a lack of a guide, someone to steer my experience in the right direction.

any ideas
Open another thread and I'll happily chat to you about it, It's a bit off topic for this thread, I don't wanna lose any more infraction points..;)

Jimi

oneofmany

13-02-2007, 11:48 AM

Open another thread and I'll happily chat to you about it, It's a bit off topic for this thread, I don't wanna lose any more infraction points..;)

Jimi

I apoligise for taking this thread off topic, It wasn't jimi's fault, it was mine and i'll take the hit for jimi if any freedom points issues come up.

P.S new thread started

thanks

limelady

13-02-2007, 12:06 PM

I apoligise for taking this thread off topic, It wasn't jimi's fault, it was mine and i'll take the hit for jimi if any freedom points issues come up.

P.S new thread started

thanks

No problem guys.....it sort of veered of topic naturally rather than being hijacked off topic deliberately. There's a big difference!

Lime :)