cctv for homes.....it's coming!

[reptilianshapeshifter]

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/115736/Sin-bins-for-worst-families

Sorry if its been posted elsewher,e i didn't find it.

They are claiming this isn't true though

http://www.dcsf.gov.uk/news/content.cfm?landing=family_intervention_projects&type=1

[hagbard_celine]

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/115736/Sin-bins-for-worst-families

Sorry if its been posted elsewher,e i didn't find it.

They are claiming this isn't true though

http://www.dcsf.gov.uk/news/content.cfm?landing=family_intervention_projects&type=1

It's so bloody predictable!:rolleyes: They're doing it because the public will support it! "Disfunctional families! Serve them right!":rolleyes:

But Pastor Neimoller could have written:

"Then the came for the dysfunctional familes..."

[disorder2k8]

mike "uh-oh.. he's jerking off again"

dave "what else is on?"

[rapunzel]

It's so bloody predictable!:rolleyes: They're doing it because the public will support it! "Disfunctional families! Serve them right!":rolleyes:

But Pastor Neimoller could have written:

"Then the came for the dysfunctional familes..."

So you don't think that dysfunctional families should be helped in any way? Maybe it would be better if the kids were just taken away and adopted but you'd scream about that. Have you ever met a dysfunctional family? Have you seen what theses sort of families do to the kids?

[dlb2007]

emergancy send the police car arround to number 56, they are potentially going to violate the one child policy, they are having sex and have already got one child.

[hagbard_celine]

Have you seen what theses sort of families do to the kids?

I've been accused of running a dysfunctional family personally. Why? Because my daughter had trouble toilet training and my mum told a pack of lies about me.:mad: For that I almost had my kid taken into care!:eek:

Of course in cases of serious abuse they need to be dealt with, but in our eagerness to meat out damnation on genuine cases we must be careful not to take down innocent people with them.

The Big Brother Agenda wants us to demand solutions to various problems. What would delight them would be for the public to support the idea of people having to pass exams and be granted licences before being allowed to have children. Perhaps people who fail the test should be sterilized!:rolleyes: This has actually happened!:eek:

[hagbard_celine]

emergancy send the police car arround to number 56, they are potentially going to violate the one child policy, they are having sex and have already got one child.

They might take a leaf out of Australia's books: break up Aborigine familes.:(:mad:

[rapunzel]

I've been accused of running a dysfunctional family personally. Why? Because my daughter had trouble toilet training and my mum told a pack of lies about me.:mad: For that I almost had my kid taken into care!:eek:

Of course in cases of serious abuse they need to be dealt with, but in our eagerness to meat out damnation on genuine cases we must be careful not to take down innocent people with them.

The Big Brother Agenda wants us to demand solutions to various problems. What would delight them would be for the public to support the idea of people having to pass exams and be granted licences before being allowed to have children. Perhaps people who fail the test should be sterilized!:rolleyes: This has actually happened!:eek:

Yes of course I agree that innocent people can be caught up in this and have been in the past. But the sort of dysfunctional families that qualify for this sort of supervision are the ones who have been causing trouble for years with choldren running wild, endless complaints by neighbours, court appearances etc. Just one family like this can ruin a whole neighbourhood and make life unbearable for the occupants. I used to work in social housing so I have had plenty of experience of this sort of thing but I am sorry you got caught up in allegations like this due to family lies.

Some of the things I have seen have often made me feel that certain people eed sterilising. An emotional reaction perhaps but I'm not ashamed of being emotional when it comes to the welfare of children.

[hagbard_celine]

Yes of course I agree that innocent people can be caught up in this and have been in the past. But the sort of dysfunctional families that qualify for this sort of supervision are the ones who have been causing trouble for years with choldren running wild, endless complaints by neighbours, court appearances etc. Just one family like this can ruin a whole neighbourhood and make life unbearable for the occupants. I used to work in social housing so I have had plenty of experience of this sort of thing but I am sorry you got caught up in allegations like this due to family lies.

Some of the things I have seen have often made me feel that certain people eed sterilising. An emotional reaction perhaps but I'm not ashamed of being emotional when it comes to the welfare of children.

I think we all get emotional regarding children, especially our own:(. This is why the Illuminati keep using our feelings towards children as a weapon against us. We must be careful that our reaction to terrible scenes of domestic violence and child abuse is not one that we're been goaded into making for a political purpose. Remember that if it wasn't for aspartame, mind-control and all the rest of the things that the very same people offering solutions have caused, there would be far fewer and less serious dysfunctioinal families in the first place.

[ustane]

Divide and rule. Divide and rule. Divide and rule.

But they are not just going to leave it at dysunctional families, they's a comin' for every home. The NWO isn't just for dysfunctional families it's for every bugger.

[rapunzel]

I think we all get emotional regarding children, especially our own:(. This is why the Illuminati keep using our feelings towards children as a weapon against us. We must be careful that our reaction to terrible scenes of domestic violence and child abuse is not one that we're been goaded into making for a political purpose. Remember that if it wasn't for aspartame, mind-control and all the rest of the things that the very same people offering solutions have caused, there would be far fewer and less serious dysfunctioinal families in the first place.

I can't agree that dysfunctional families are caused by aspartame or mind control, it is far more complex than that. Dysfunctionality (is that a word?) goes back many, many generations and a large amount of it is caused by the Nanny State with Governments taking responsibility away from individuals. When I was a Housing Officer and out visiting I used to carry a screwdriver with me to carry out small jobs the tenants wanted to report as a repair. Things like tightening the screws on a door lock or handle because the tenants didn't see why they should do the work themselves. It wasn't their responsibility or so they felt.

Nor is it their responsibility when their children thrown stones at people and at windows or break into other people's houses. They just used to shrug their shoulders as they weren't interested in what their children did as they did the same things when they were younger. Those sort of attitudes cover many generations and are very hard to change.

[decim]

This ties in with 'their' if you have nothing to hide......motto.

The false dichotomy that there are only two possible choices or answers, to a given set of circumstances or problems.

More mind bending from the psychomagicians.

[unusual_suspect]

So you don't think that dysfunctional families should be helped in any way? Maybe it would be better if the kids were just taken away and adopted but you'd scream about that. Have you ever met a dysfunctional family? Have you seen what theses sort of families do to the kids?

What is dysfunctional though and who will decide, I will be the first to admit that my family is completely dyfunctional, my sons father is an alchololic who has never paid maintenance, we don't even see him.

One year on the day before xmas eve he turned up at my house with a knife making threats, I could go on, surfice to say that I now live in a different part of the country.

That is pretty dyfunctional in my book, shit happnes though, even nice white middle class families with 2 parents can be dyfunctional too and i had to parents at home who were also teachers :eek:

[rapunzel]

What is dysfunctional though and who will decide, I will be the first to admit that my family is completely dyfunctional, my sons father is an alchololic who has never paid maintenance, we don't even see him.

One year on the day before xmas eve he turned up at my house with a knife making threats, I could go on, surfice to say that I now live in a different part of the country.

That is pretty dyfunctional in my book, shit happnes though, even nice white middle class families with 2 parents can be dyfunctional too and i had to parents at home who were also teachers :eek:

I would imagine that dysfunctional in the sense used in the thread is where anti social behaviour on the part of parents and children is the norm, with frequent court appearances, truancy from school and parental neglect. Your kind of unfortunate family breakdown would not be counted although this sort of situation is becoming more and more common. It's your son's father who is dysfunctional not your family.

[unusual_suspect]

I would imagine that dysfunctional in the sense used in the thread is where anti social behaviour on the part of parents and children is the norm, with frequent court appearances, truancy from school and parental neglect. Your kind of unfortunate family breakdown would not be counted although this sort of situation is becoming more and more common. It's your son's father who is dysfunctional not your family.

Yes, but what bothers me is the fact that once something like this is in place the parameters of what is dyfunctional could start to widen if you know what I mean.

[jakemaverick]

anybody else noticed that the govt's response to this one has mysteriously disappeared?

[swoarg]

i am a bit confused with the word dysfunctional,

what are we saying here, are we saying that disabled people should be punished, controled spied on because of there disability.

i can agree that alot of these people are defanetly troubled in someway but giving them help and support would be more afective.
not that i can imagine that being easy, :D.

[deem]

If we give them an inch, It'l be people on tags next, then people who drop litter, violate fashion laws and suspicious people who smile alot for apparently no reason. Once they start, it never stops there it grows.

[jakemaverick]

that's the thing about 'labels'- they're just used to dehumanise people so the PTB can 'justify' abusing them.......

[hagbard_celine]

Divide and rule. Divide and rule. Divide and rule.

But they are not just going to leave it at dysunctional families, they's a comin' for every home. The NWO isn't just for dysfunctional families it's for every bugger.

Well said! That's the whole point in a nutshell.:cool::)

[hagbard_celine]

I can't agree that dysfunctional families are caused by aspartame or mind control, it is far more complex than that. Dysfunctionality (is that a word?) goes back many, many generations and a large amount of it is caused by the Nanny State with Governments taking responsibility away from individuals. When I was a Housing Officer and out visiting I used to carry a screwdriver with me to carry out small jobs the tenants wanted to report as a repair. Things like tightening the screws on a door lock or handle because the tenants didn't see why they should do the work themselves. It wasn't their responsibility or so they felt.

Nor is it their responsibility when their children thrown stones at people and at windows or break into other people's houses. They just used to shrug their shoulders as they weren't interested in what their children did as they did the same things when they were younger. Those sort of attitudes cover many generations and are very hard to change.

That may well be the case, but there is no frying pan in this world that is so bad that it warrants us jumping into a fire to get out of it:(:eek:.

The authorities will use this problem, even if it is a real problem that does need addressing, to gain public support for the idea of CCTV in homes (And you even mentioned forced sterilization! I hope you were joking!:eek:). The CCTV in homes will be presented as a solution to that problem.

But do you really think that they'll just stop with dysfunctional families?:rolleyes: After the first phase of the programme they'll say: "Well we might as well expand the programme to cover alcolholics", and then it'll be drug addicts, then noisy neighbours, then probationers from jail, then the elderly, mentally ill and rape and domestic violence victims to protect them, then people who've abused pets, then benfit fraudsters. All these groups of people are groups the general public will be glad to see put under Big Brother conditions that they would not want themselves. They'll say things like: "It's only criminals/asylum seekers/hoodies/junkies, not us. Besides which they deserve it! Damn criminals/asylum seekers/hoodies/junkies (The list goes on! We're an outcast production line!:D:eek:)!"

But then the authorities play their trump!;) "Well, we've got so many of these separate groups under home-CCTV that we might as well just do everybody and be done with it!"

Game-Set and Match- the authorities.:mad::p And it's a trap we let them lead us into!

[delamo1999]

I've been accused of running a dysfunctional family personally. Why? Because my daughter had trouble toilet training and my mum told a pack of lies about me.:mad: For that I almost had my kid taken into care!:eek:

Of course in cases of serious abuse they need to be dealt with, but in our eagerness to meat out damnation on genuine cases we must be careful not to take down innocent people with them.

The Big Brother Agenda wants us to demand solutions to various problems. What would delight them would be for the public to support the idea of people having to pass exams and be granted licences before being allowed to have children. Perhaps people who fail the test should be sterilized!:rolleyes: This has actually happened!:eek:


You got accused of being a dysfunctional parent because your daughter had trouble using the potty as a toddler? That is really rediculous because many little children find this challenging. And shame on your mom for not supporting you as you were trying to be the best parent that you could at the time. Everyone knows that there is no "manual" that comes with a newborn child that instructs a parent in how to raise them.

Hang in there Hagbard, I have read many of your posts and you are a great parent.

:)

[nosferatu_dj]

Smart surveillance has alarm bells ringing!
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=73531

'Big brother' monitoring you for your health
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=73350

TV Screen is the Camera...!
Dtv is an nwo tool
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=73072&page=2

[rapunzel]

Yes, but what bothers me is the fact that once something like this is in place the parameters of what is dyfunctional could start to widen if you know what I mean.

In theory it could but where do the staff come from to assess more people as dysfunctional. They haven't got enough social workers now to deal with the really dysfunctional families. Expanding the parameters would be impossible.

[unusual_suspect]

In theory it could but where do the staff come from to assess more people as dysfunctional. They haven't got enough social workers now to deal with the really dysfunctional families. Expanding the parameters would be impossible.

Idk, I'm already nervous of the authorities, my sons teacher keeps telling me what my son should be doing, she basically told me what I should be doing with him over the holdiday and gave me a load of maths work to do with him as this is his problem subject.

I get really paranoid of teachers as they can report you to other authorities, so I then feel like I have to go along with what they say. She was also telling me that I should be attending friends of the school events, I replied that I had to work and that it would be great to have my days free for such activities but I had to work and pay my bills.

What worries me is that schools can flag people up. What if they can report familes as dyfunctional also just because they don't fit in with the schools vision of what activities the family should be doing?

[rapunzel]

That may well be the case, but there is no frying pan in this world that is so bad that it warrants us jumping into a fire to get out of it:(:eek:.

The authorities will use this problem, even if it is a real problem that does need addressing, to gain public support for the idea of CCTV in homes (And you even mentioned forced sterilization! I hope you were joking!:eek:). The CCTV in homes will be presented as a solution to that problem.

But do you really think that they'll just stop with dysfunctional families?:rolleyes: After the first phase of the programme they'll say: "Well we might as well expand the programme to cover alcolholics", and then it'll be drug addicts, then noisy neighbours, then probationers from jail, then the elderly, mentally ill and rape and domestic violence victims to protect them, then people who've abused pets, then benfit fraudsters. All these groups of people are groups the general public will be glad to see put under Big Brother conditions that they would not want themselves. They'll say things like: "It's only criminals/asylum seekers/hoodies/junkies, not us. Besides which they deserve it! Damn criminals/asylum seekers/hoodies/junkies (The list goes on! We're an outcast production line!:D:eek:)!"

But then the authorities play their trump!;) "Well, we've got so many of these separate groups under home-CCTV that we might as well just do everybody and be done with it!"

Game-Set and Match- the authorities.:mad::p And it's a trap we let them lead us into!

The report that cctv was to be installed in peoples homes came from the Daily Express(hardly the most reliable of papers!) and was then picked up by Prison Planet and other sites. Then came the following:

Responding to stories claiming that irresponsible families will be monitored by CCTV cameras in their own homes, a DCSF spokesperson said:

"Families will not be monitored by CCTV in their own homes. Through Family Intervention Projects (FIPs) we are supporting and challenging the small number of families involved in persistent anti-social behaviour. FIP workers spend time observing families in their own homes, helping them to recognise that their anti-social behaviour is unacceptable. They focus on the causes of their behaviour, and challenge them to make changes so they can turn their lives around. A very small number of families who need further intensive support are placed in residential units with project workers living with them – this does not involve CCTV."

This is the link to the actual document outlining plans for dealing with problem families.


http://www.respect.gov.uk/members/article.aspx?id=8678

For those who can’t be bothered to read the whole document here is an excerpt.

What are family intervention projects?

Family intervention projects work to turn around the behaviour of families and reduce their impact on their community. In so doing, they also bring stability to families’ lives, prevent homelessness and improve opportunities for children. They combine intensive support with focused challenge – a twin track approach. For these projects, it is not a question of either/or - support and enforcement are systematically linked to provide families with the incentive to change.

While projects vary in the services they provide, they share key features which distinguish the family intervention project model.

The key worker is central to the projects. Their role is to manage or ‘grip’ the family’s problems, co-ordinate the delivery of services and using a combination of support and sanction to motivate the family to change their behaviour. Persistence and assertiveness with families is critical to keeping them engaged and following agreed steps.

If families start to disengage, services are stepped up and the key worker redoubles his/her efforts where mainstream services often withdraw. This comes as a shock to families who are often used to services pulling away and sends out a powerful signal to families that the service is not an optional extra.

A contract (also known as a behaviour support agreement) is drawn up between the family and key worker which sets out the changes that are expected, the support that will be provided in order to facilitate that change and the consequences if changes are not made, or tasks are not undertaken.

The use of sanctions is an important lever for motivating families to change. Demoting tenancies or gaining possession orders suspended on the basis of compliance with the projects or, for some, the very real prospect of children being taken into care, can provide the wake up call to take the help on offer. Too often these families have been told that action will be taken but is then not followed through, creating a sense among family members that they are untouchable.

These are intensely practical projects which focus on providing a structure for those living in chaotic circumstances – teaching parents basics such as how to get children up and fed in the morning, clearing up, preparing meals and bed time routines. Families are often learning these for the first time. Families report that their day to day skills such as cooking, hygiene and daily routines had often been taken for granted by other agencies.

Projects take a whole family approach which recognise the inter- connectedness between children’s and adults problems There are obvious links between a child’s behaviour in school and their relationships at home; links between a parent’s ability to get children to school and parent’s alcohol misuse; between offending by the father and a child getting drawn in to bad behaviour in the community.

Improving parenting skills is always a critical service. One in five children in existing projects are on the child protection register and over 80% of children are seen as being ‘in need’. There is strong evidence that parenting programmes can improve parenting skills and have lasting effects in reducing bad behaviour, even in cases where parents are initially reluctant to accept help.

There are three distinct levels of interventions which are used according to a family’s needs and the impact their behaviour is having on the community. Different levels of intervention may be used at different times as circumstances and behaviour change.

Most projects provide an outreach service for families who are responsible for anti-social behaviour in their home, and who are risk of being evicted. However, services can also be provided in units managed by the family intervention project but dispersed in the community.

At the most intensive level, families who require supervision and support on a 24 hour basis stay in a core residential unit. Upon satisfactory completion of a programme, the family can move into a managed property.

Do they work?

These schemes have impressive results – for more than four out of five (85%) families, complaints about anti-social behaviour ceased or reduced and in nine out of ten (92%), the risk to local communities was assessed as having either reduced or ceased completely by the time families left the project. In addition, for four out of five families, there was no further possession action taken against their homes and significant improvements in schools attendance were found."

Nowhere is cctv mentioned, even for the most problematic families. But hey, why bother with the truth when exaggeration is so much more fun. Peoples lives must be so dull that they have to stimulate themselves to outrage by believing lies. If you can find reference to cctv cameras in a Government publication then I’d like to see it. Even the Wired site had to admit the facts were not as originally reported.

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/08/britain-to-put-cctv-cameras-inside-private-homes/

UPDATE: Further research shows that the Express didn’t quite have all its facts straight. This scheme is active, and the numbers are fairly accurate (if estimated), but the mentions of actual cameras in people’s homes are exaggerated. The truth is that the scheme can take the most troublesome families out of their homes and move them, temporarily, to a neutral, government-run compound. Here they will be under 24-hour supervision. CCTV cameras are not specifically mentioned, not are they denied, but 24-hour “supervision” certainly doesn’t rule this out from the camera-loving Brits.

Wired could not even get the update correct using the emotive words “Government compound.”

Why don’t people get angry at the real things this horrible Government is doing to us and is proposing to do to us instead of wasting their energy over something invented.?

[rapunzel]

Idk, I'm already nervous of the authorities, my sons teacher keeps telling me what my son should be doing, she basically told me what I should be doing with him over the holdiday and gave me a load of maths work to do with him as this is his problem subject.

I get really paranoid of teachers as they can report you to other authorities, so I then feel like I have to go along with what they say. She was also telling me that I should be attending friends of the school events, I replied that I had to work and that it would be great to have my days free for such activities but I had to work and pay my bills.

What worries me is that schools can flag people up. What if they can report familes as dyfunctional also just because they don't fit in with the schools vision of what activities the family should be doing?

Maybe your son's teacher is just concerned over his progress and assumes you will be too. Why should she flag you up as dysfunctional because you work and so cannot do daytime activities? I'm sure you're a great mother and support your son as best you can but no-one can be a perfect mum and hold down a job. As the majority of mothers now work I imagine that most are in your situation of having conflicting priorities.

[hagbard_celine]

You got accused of being a dysfunctional parent because your daughter had trouble using the potty as a toddler? That is really rediculous because many little children find this challenging. And shame on your mom for not supporting you as you were trying to be the best parent that you could at the time. Everyone knows that there is no "manual" that comes with a newborn child that instructs a parent in how to raise them.

Hang in there Hagbard, I have read many of your posts and you are a great parent.

:)




Thanks, Delamo:).

My kid is 14 now and is a lot more settled. Hopefully that'll be the end of it. Whenever a new social worker calls round now I ask them if they've ever been involved with Common Purpose.:eek:

[hagbard_celine]

The report that cctv was to be installed in peoples homes came from the Daily Express(hardly the most reliable of papers!) and was then picked up by Prison Planet and other sites. Then came the following:

Responding to stories claiming that irresponsible families will be monitored by CCTV cameras in their own homes, a DCSF spokesperson said:

"Families will not be monitored by CCTV in their own homes. Through Family Intervention Projects (FIPs) we are supporting and challenging the small number of families involved in persistent anti-social behaviour. FIP workers spend time observing families in their own homes, helping them to recognise that their anti-social behaviour is unacceptable. They focus on the causes of their behaviour, and challenge them to make changes so they can turn their lives around. A very small number of families who need further intensive support are placed in residential units with project workers living with them – this does not involve CCTV."

This is the link to the actual document outlining plans for dealing with problem families.


http://www.respect.gov.uk/members/article.aspx?id=8678

Here they will be under 24-hour supervision. CCTV cameras are not specifically mentioned, not are they denied, but 24-hour “supervision” certainly doesn’t rule this out from the camera-loving Brits.[/COLOR]

Wired could not even get the update correct using the emotive words “Government compound.”

Why don’t people get angry at the real things this horrible Government is doing to us and is proposing to do to us instead of wasting their energy over something invented.?

I don't think it's wasting energy. They may well have not mentioned CCTV yet, but they can bring it in by building on the stages they've already achieved. After all they do say: "but 24-hour “supervision” certainly doesn’t rule this out from the camera-loving Brits" (We're not camera-loving, our government is.:rolleyes:)

And they admit they're going to deport people to govt concentration camps:eek::mad:, or "Family Intervention Projects" or whatever sickly Orwellian euphemism they're substituting for the word. This is just as bad!

[ustane]

What is dysfunctional though and who will decide, I will be the first to admit that my family is completely dyfunctional, my sons father is an alchololic who has never paid maintenance, we don't even see him.

One year on the day before xmas eve he turned up at my house with a knife making threats, I could go on, surfice to say that I now live in a different part of the country.

That is pretty dyfunctional in my book, shit happnes though, even nice white middle class families with 2 parents can be dyfunctional too and i had to parents at home who were also teachers :eek:

...and getting a fat register folder chucked at you for no reason other than sitting there quietly by a psycho 'well-to-do-' teacher at school is dysfunctional:mad:

[hagbard_celine]

...and getting a fat register folder chucked at you for no reason other than sitting there quietly by a psycho 'well-to-do-' teacher at school is dysfunctional:mad:


Yes, when it comes to school bullying nobody complains about the bullies at the front of the class.:rolleyes:

[rapunzel]

I don't think it's wasting energy. They may well have not mentioned CCTV yet, but they can bring it in by building on the stages they've already achieved. After all they do say: "but 24-hour “supervision” certainly doesn’t rule this out from the camera-loving Brits" (We're not camera-loving, our government is.:rolleyes:)

And they admit they're going to deport people to govt concentration camps:eek::mad:, or "Family Intervention Projects" or whatever sickly Orwellian euphemism they're substituting for the word. This is just as bad!

Why would they put cctv in peoples homes? Who's going to monitor it round the clock? How much would it all cost? How long before someone comes up with a device available on the net that scrambles the transmission on your government installed cctv camera?

My son in law works in a supported flat scheme for young people that has 24 hour supervision. All that means is that there are members of staff on site for 24 hours to deal with any problems such as fighting, drunkenness, or people trying to gain entrance who shouldn't be there and to generally give support to vulnerable teenagers.

Your just being mischievous describing assessment units as "concentration camps". It's a last ditch attempt to save families from disintegrating completely, save their children from going into care and save the family from being evicted. Is that wrong? Whenever something tragic happens to a child the cry goes up, why didn't "they" do something. When "they" try to do something people like you start talking about Big Brother.

Most people have the wrong idea about cctv. The cameras installed on the streets are monitored continuously but those installed in small shops, car parks and the entrances to buildings are not. They are kept for 3 days and then if nothing untoward has happened they are recorded over. Only if an incident has happened are the tapes reviewed to see if the offender can be recognised. Someone posted a link about cctv being installed to watch individual flats front doors and a tenant complained that he didn't want anyone watching who came to his flat. Again, these sort of cctv are not monitored so no-one is "watching". If they were the cost would be horrendous.

[nosferatu_dj]

Why would they put cctv in peoples homes? Who's going to monitor it round the clock? How much would it all cost? How long before someone comes up with a device available on the net that scrambles the transmission on your government installed cctv camera?

My son in law works in a supported flat scheme for young people that has 24 hour supervision. All that means is that there are members of staff on site for 24 hours to deal with any problems such as fighting, drunkenness, or people trying to gain entrance who shouldn't be there and to generally give support to vulnerable teenagers.

Your just being mischievous describing assessment units as "concentration camps". It's a last ditch attempt to save families from disintegrating completely, save their children from going into care and save the family from being evicted. Is that wrong? Whenever something tragic happens to a child the cry goes up, why didn't "they" do something. When "they" try to do something people like you start talking about Big Brother.

Most people have the wrong idea about cctv. The cameras installed on the streets are monitored continuously but those installed in small shops, car parks and the entrances to buildings are not. They are kept for 3 days and then if nothing untoward has happened they are recorded over. Only if an incident has happened are the tapes reviewed to see if the offender can be recognised. Someone posted a link about cctv being installed to watch individual flats front doors and a tenant complained that he didn't want anyone watching who came to his flat. Again, these sort of cctv are not monitored so no-one is "watching". If they were the cost would be horrendous.

i am going to show you information that might just shock you a bit as from reading this post it looks like you do not know about this.

after reading these 2 threads, i think you will be thinking again about the "monitored and unmonitored"

Smart surveillance has alarm bells ringing!
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=73531

Big brother is watching
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1090876

[rapunzel]

i am going to show you information that might just shock you a bit as from reading this post it looks like you do not know about this.

after reading these 2 threads, i think you will be thinking again about the "monitored and unmonitored"

Smart surveillance has alarm bells ringing!
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=73531

Big brother is watching
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1090876


No, I'm not at all shocked since I already know about these advances in technology which seems to be aimed at consumer habits to make the retailers more profit and monitoring peoples behaviour in public. But note what the professor of computer science says about monitoring behaviour on buses: "It's completely naive to suggest that any workable process could result from this kind of analysis, human behaviour is just too complex." As for the "smart houses" they have to be built that way. Sheltered accommodation flats for the elderly often have pressure mats in all the rooms. If the pressure mats are not activated the people at the Helpline centre are alerted and the alarm can then be raised that the person may be ill and the on site warden can check or a member of the family alerted. Presumably you object to this sort of monitoring as well but I have personal knowledge of a number of lives saved by this and older people generally welcome such additional protection.

I also am aware of how mobiles and email can be monitored and are being monitored. However this is a long way from cctv cameras in every home which is what the thread is talking about.

Don't assume that just because someone disagrees with you they are ignorant.

[hagbard_celine]

Why would they put cctv in peoples homes? Who's going to monitor it round the clock? How much would it all cost? How long before someone comes up with a device available on the net that scrambles the transmission on your government installed cctv camera?

Most people have the wrong idea about cctv. The cameras installed on the streets are monitored continuously but those installed in small shops, car parks and the entrances to buildings are not. They are kept for 3 days and then if nothing untoward has happened they are recorded over. Only if an incident has happened are the tapes reviewed to see if the offender can be recognised. Someone posted a link about cctv being installed to watch individual flats front doors and a tenant complained that he didn't want anyone watching who came to his flat. Again, these sort of cctv are not monitored so no-one is "watching". If they were the cost would be horrendous.

Unfortunately with modern technology, facial recognition and speech recognition etc, and also what is currently classified. Computers can do the job and alert a human operator when required.

My son in law works in a supported flat scheme for young people that has 24 hour supervision. All that means is that there are members of staff on site for 24 hours to deal with any problems such as fighting, drunkenness, or people trying to gain entrance who shouldn't be there and to generally give support to vulnerable teenagers.

...It's a last ditch attempt to save families from disintegrating completely, save their children from going into care and save the family from being evicted. Is that wrong? Whenever something tragic happens to a child the cry goes up, why didn't "they" do something.


There's nothing wrong with supported flat schemes for vulnerable people so long as the schemes are not being harnessed to some underhand plot to create a unversal prison camp. (See what I wrote above) I'm not exaggerating when I use that term. Have you heard of Brian Gerrish and his exposure of plots like this? And he's just seen the tip of the iceberg!:eek: See: http://www.stopcp.com/ Also check out Brians lectures on Google Video.

Your just being mischievous describing assessment units as "concentration camps".

No I'm not. I think by calling them some innocuous and cuddly name they'ree misleading us. At the end of the day they are secure instituions where people are kept away from their normal homes and habitats.

When "they" try to do something people like you start talking about Big Brother.

That's unfair.:p I said very clearly that I'm aware that there are real problems and that those problems need to be addressed. I don't object to those two boys in Yorkshire who brutalized two other boys being jailed and reeducated.;) But when the proposed solution to those problems means we support the creation of more Big Brother inbstituions then I become suspicious of the motives of the people proposing them.

[rapunzel]

Unfortunately with modern technology, facial recognition and speech recognition etc, and also what is currently classified. Computers can do the job and alert a human operator when required.

I acknowledge that.

There's nothing wrong with supported flat schemes for vulnerable people so long as the schemes are not being harnessed to some underhand plot to create a unversal prison camp. (See what I wrote above) I'm not exaggerating when I use that term. Have you heard of Brian Gerrish and his exposure of plots like this? And he's just seen the tip of the iceberg!:eek: See: http://www.stopcp.com/ Also check out Brians lectures on Google Video.

The supported schemes I am thinking of give teenagers a chance to improve their reading and writing and give them some basic IT skills to enable them to get a job. The intention is to make them independent, give them life skills and the ability to support themselves in their own accommodation. In most of these places the maximum stay is 2 years.

I looked up your references to Brian Gerrish and whilst he has done a lot of investigation I'm not entirely convinced by his conclusions. However, I will leave my mind open on this.

No I'm not. I think by calling them some innocuous and cuddly name they'ree misleading us. At the end of the day they are secure instituions where people are kept away from their normal homes and habitats.

They are not secure in the sense a prison is. The families are able to leave the scheme during the day. The people who are in these schemes, and they are only temporary, have such appalling homes and habitats that taking them away, even briefly, is helping them to live a less disordered life.

That's unfair.:p I said very clearly that I'm aware that there are real problems and that those problems need to be addressed. I don't object to those two boys in Yorkshire who brutalized two other boys being jailed and reeducated.;) But when the proposed solution to those problems means we support the creation of more Big Brother inbstituions then I become suspicious of the motives of the people proposing them.

Then if you are aware that there are problems that need addressing how do you propose that they be addressed? Jailing and re-educating those boys in Yorkshire is too late, the damage has already been done. Early intervention might have prevented this happening.

Mary Bell, who murdered a child, was the daughter of a prostitute and was herself sexually abused by her mother's clients. No wonder she grew up twisted. The murderers of James Bulger were the products of dysfunctional families. Fortunately the majority of children from families like this do not go on to kill and abuse but they do not have happy and fulfilled lives.

Many years ago I was walking along a busy main road and saw in from of me a young woman of around 17 and following her, completely unsupervised on such a busy road, was a boy of around 2/3. He was toddling along as fast as he could but was about 6 yards behind her when she suddenly turned round and shrieked at him "Gerra move on yer fucking little bastard".

My first instinct was to grab the little lad and take him home, my next was to punch this woman's lights out. I did neither but have never been able to get this image out of my mind. What chance did that poor little child have to a decent life? It only occurred to me later that his mother was probably spoken to in the same way when she was a child. How to stop this ongoing generational abuse? I don't know but ignoring it is not the answer. We cannot go on just dealing with the results and ignoring the cause.

OK, rant over.

Cheers

[hagbard_celine]

I acknowledge that.



The supported schemes I am thinking of give teenagers a chance to improve their reading and writing and give them some basic IT skills to enable them to get a job. The intention is to make them independent, give them life skills and the ability to support themselves in their own accommodation. In most of these places the maximum stay is 2 years.

I looked up your references to Brian Gerrish and whilst he has done a lot of investigation I'm not entirely convinced by his conclusions. However, I will leave my mind open on this.



They are not secure in the sense a prison is. The families are able to leave the scheme during the day. The people who are in these schemes, and they are only temporary, have such appalling homes and habitats that taking them away, even briefly, is helping them to live a less disordered life.



Then if you are aware that there are problems that need addressing how do you propose that they be addressed? Jailing and re-educating those boys in Yorkshire is too late, the damage has already been done. Early intervention might have prevented this happening.

Mary Bell, who murdered a child, was the daughter of a prostitute and was herself sexually abused by her mother's clients. No wonder she grew up twisted. The murderers of James Bulger were the products of dysfunctional families. Fortunately the majority of children from families like this do not go on to kill and abuse but they do not have happy and fulfilled lives.

Many years ago I was walking along a busy main road and saw in from of me a young woman of around 17 and following her, completely unsupervised on such a busy road, was a boy of around 2/3. He was toddling along as fast as he could but was about 6 yards behind her when she suddenly turned round and shrieked at him "Gerra move on yer fucking little bastard".

My first instinct was to grab the little lad and take him home, my next was to punch this woman's lights out. I did neither but have never been able to get this image out of my mind. What chance did that poor little child have to a decent life? It only occurred to me later that his mother was probably spoken to in the same way when she was a child. How to stop this ongoing generational abuse? I don't know but ignoring it is not the answer. We cannot go on just dealing with the results and ignoring the cause.

OK, rant over.

Cheers

The problem is that our society has been deliberately engineered for the very purpose of producing families like that.:( A true solution has to address the true cause of the problem: that agenda to engineer dysfunctional families.

But the public are not briefed in to the real problem and so jump at the opportunity to introduce false solutions. These false solutions are ones which allow the Illuminati to create the society they want. Thesis + antithesis = synthesis.

Synchronistically there are two excellent examples in Today's Headlines:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/6142249/Labours-secret-plan-to-send-overweight-children-to-NHS-fat-camps.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/children_shealth/6145313/More-babies-should-be-taken-into-care-to-protect-them-from-poor-parents.html

[ustane]

The problem is that our society has been deliberately engineered for the very purpose of producing families like that.:( A true solution has to address the true cause of the problem: that agenda to engineer dysfunctional families.

But the public are not briefed in to the real problem and so jump at the opportunity to introduce false solutions. These false solutions are ones which allow the Illuminati to create the society they want. Thesis + antithesis = synthesis.

Synchronistically there are two excellent examples in Today's Headlines:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/6142249/Labours-secret-plan-to-send-overweight-children-to-NHS-fat-camps.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/children_shealth/6145313/More-babies-should-be-taken-into-care-to-protect-them-from-poor-parents.html

Yeah. Something has been done or used that's created this unpleasant dysfunctional behaviour I can feel that.

[hagbard_celine]

Yeah. Something has been done or used that's created this unpleasant dysfunctional behaviour I can feel that.

Me too. And it's on the increase today:(. The methods for creating this dysfunctionlaity are psychological, chemical (psychiatric), sociological, cultural and physical (the glorification of bullying etc)

[ustane]

Me too. And it's on the increase today:(. The methods for creating this dysfunctionlaity are psychological, chemical (psychiatric), sociological, cultural and physical (the glorification of bullying etc)

Chemical is one, sure. And maybe more invisible ways, perhaps psychtronic attack

[electron2012]

So you don't think that dysfunctional families should be helped in any way? Maybe it would be better if the kids were just taken away and adopted but you'd scream about that. Have you ever met a dysfunctional family? Have you seen what theses sort of families do to the kids?

If we lived in a utopia that was run by humanitarian people, then I'd agree with you, but it's far from that - and we are all aware of the tiptoe approach they have with things like that... so I'd say a big no to this. There's always other solutions.

[rapunzel]

If we lived in a utopia that was run by humanitarian people, then I'd agree with you, but it's far from that - and we are all aware of the tiptoe approach they have with things like that... so I'd say a big no to this. There's always other solutions.

There's always other sulutions you say. Such as?

[chris_com283]

So you don't think that dysfunctional families should be helped in any way? Maybe it would be better if the kids were just taken away and adopted but you'd scream about that. Have you ever met a dysfunctional family? Have you seen what theses sort of families do to the kids?
It's a shame Big Brother has been axed as we could have just sent them there.

[kweli]

So you don't think that dysfunctional families should be helped in any way? Maybe it would be better if the kids were just taken away and adopted but you'd scream about that. Have you ever met a dysfunctional family? Have you seen what theses sort of families do to the kids?

I've rarely met a family that isn't 'dysfunctional' in some way. - truth.

Definition of a dysfunctional family:

Psychology A family with multiple 'internal'–eg sibling rivalries, parent-child– conflicts, domestic violence, mental illness, single parenthood, or 'external'–eg alcohol or drug abuse, extramarital affairs, gambling, unemployment—influences that affect the basic needs of the family unit

^ Describes the Royal family pretty well to me.

[rapunzel]

I've rarely met a family that isn't 'dysfunctional' in some way. - truth.

Definition of a dysfunctional family:

Psychology A family with multiple 'internal'–eg sibling rivalries, parent-child– conflicts, domestic violence, mental illness, single parenthood, or 'external'–eg alcohol or drug abuse, extramarital affairs, gambling, unemployment—influences that affect the basic needs of the family unit

^ Describes the Royal family pretty well to me.

You know perfectly well what I mean by "dysfunctional" and it's not normal family tensions and disagreements.

[kweli]

You know perfectly well what I mean by "dysfunctional" and it's not normal family tensions and disagreements.

No, i'm afraid i don't know perfectly well what you deem 'dysfunctional'. Children have ( & continue to be) taken in to care for the most pettiest of reasons because someone - somewhere defines their family as dysfunctional. Of couses there's genuine cases of neglect and abuse but the authorities seem to fail these real victims - why? We all cry that don't we? It's all a set up my friend, they want control of all children.

[rapunzel]

No, i'm afraid i don't know perfectly well what you deem 'dysfunctional'. Children have ( & continue to be) taken in to care for the most pettiest of reasons because someone - somewhere defines their family as dysfunctional. Of couses there's genuine cases of neglect and abuse but the authorities seem to fail these real victims - why? We all cry that don't we? It's all a set up my friend, they want control of all children.

By dysfunctional I mean parents, or parent, sometimes of criminal status themselves who routinely neglect their children not caring where they are or what they are doing and leaving the children to fall into anti social and criminal behaviour. Perhaps you've never encountered people like this but I can assure you that I have, on numerous occasions. You can have no idea as to the depths some people can sink to.

As for children being taken into care on flimsy excuses and the authorities failing those who are genuinely neglected then all I can say is that you shouldn't be so gullible as to believe everything you read in the media. They only report the failures never the successes.

Whilst social services are run by human beings you will never get perfection. Having said that in the cases where the authority fails it is often due to faulty, modern training. I came across a young woman who had failed her exams to be a social worker because the Tutor told her she concentrated too much on the rights of the child and not enough on the rights of the mother.

That the buzz word now, rights. Everyone has them but no-one has equivalent responsibilities. The "rights" culture and equalities culture are responsible for many of the mistakes. The social worker who visited a young African girl, subsequently beaten to death, found her tied up in a chair but did nothing about it because she assumed it was an African cultural custom to treat their children so and it would have been racist to protest about it.

But you'll go on believing what you want no matter what I say about it.

[nosferatu_dj]

i have been watching this thread go downhill FAST!
it has turned into a " i am right you are wrong " " believe me OR don't believe me... i only believe what i want to believe and will not allow for anyone's else opinions. "


in the case of "Social workers" and the "system" in that parents and children are under supervision... the system helping to protect the rights of the children and parents and all the rest.

i am speaking from my personal experinces with the "system"

my family has been involved with the "social workers" "welfare" ALL MY LIFE.
and i have seen, known and still know other family's that are in the "system"

there is good and bad to the "system" and same as good and bad people in the "system" you cannot say that all the workers and the way the system works is "EVIL or BAD only!" this is just being ignorant and silly, as anyone knows there is ALWAYS good and bad in all things.

yeah there is some workers that are just completely in the wrong job, not fully trained, not old enough and more...
and then there is just as many that are all the oposet... it is the same as in ANY "job".

i could go onto to give you a story of my personal experince with the "system" from my familys involvement with it and from friends involvement with it.... BUT i will not as i do not want to leave myself open to idiots attacking me for reasons they know nothing about......

THE POINT IS!! please stop attacking each other over such petty things and get back onto the point of this post and that is to educate people as to what is going on with cctv for homes..... (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1266936#post1266936)

[rapunzel]

i have been watching this thread go downhill FAST!
it has turned into a " i am right you are wrong " " believe me OR don't believe me... i only believe what i want to believe and will not allow for anyone's else opinions. "


in the case of "Social workers" and the "system" in that parents and children are under supervision... the system helping to protect the rights of the children and parents and all the rest.

i am speaking from my personal experinces with the "system"

my family has been involved with the "social workers" "welfare" ALL MY LIFE.
and i have seen, known and still know other family's that are in the "system"

there is good and bad to the "system" and same as good and bad people in the "system" you cannot say that all the workers and the way the system works is "EVIL or BAD only!" this is just being ignorant and silly, as anyone knows there is ALWAYS good and bad in all things.

yeah there is some workers that are just completely in the wrong job, not fully trained, not old enough and more...
and then there is just as many that are all the oposet... it is the same as in ANY "job".

i could go onto to give you a story of my personal experince with the "system" from my familys involvement with it and from friends involvement with it.... BUT i will not as i do not want to leave myself open to idiots attacking me for reasons they know nothing about......

THE POINT IS!! please stop attacking each other over such petty things and get back onto the point of this post and that is to educate people as to what is going on with cctv for homes..... (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1266936#post1266936)

The whole point is that there are no plans for cctv in private homes. The whole thing was started by a misleading article in a newspaper and then enthusiastically taken up by certain websites. If I am wrong then please supply some actual evidence that this gross invasion of privacy is planned and I will apologise.

By the way, I'm sorry if you've had unpleasant and disturbing experiences with social services. I know it happens.

[kweli]

By dysfunctional I mean parents, or parent, sometimes of criminal status themselves who routinely neglect their children not caring where they are or what they are doing and leaving the children to fall into anti social and criminal behaviour. Perhaps you've never encountered people like this but I can assure you that I have, on numerous occasions. You can have no idea as to the depths some people can sink to.

As for children being taken into care on flimsy excuses and the authorities failing those who are genuinely neglected then all I can say is that you shouldn't be so gullible as to believe everything you read in the media. They only report the failures never the successes.

Whilst social services are run by human beings you will never get perfection. Having said that in the cases where the authority fails it is often due to faulty, modern training. I came across a young woman who had failed her exams to be a social worker because the Tutor told her she concentrated too much on the rights of the child and not enough on the rights of the mother.

That the buzz word now, rights. Everyone has them but no-one has equivalent responsibilities. The "rights" culture and equalities culture are responsible for many of the mistakes. The social worker who visited a young African girl, subsequently beaten to death, found her tied up in a chair but did nothing about it because she assumed it was an African cultural custom to treat their children so and it would have been racist to protest about it.

But you'll go on believing what you want no matter what I say about it.

Yes, i'll go on believing what I want no matter what you say. I'm not as green about these issues as you assume me to be. I speak from experience and not just gullibly led by the media. I'll leave it there, you have your thoughts/experiences regarding Social Services - i have mine