Can YOU make use of discernment?

[stfd]

Assuming everyone would respond respectfully and acording to the best practices of forum response...may i ask:

Why do individuals generalize -particularly- on Christianity related issues?
Why do individuals missinterpret - particularly - on Christianity related issues?

Vague questions but perhaps the answers will be more precise...

Thanks

[novymir]

Assuming everyone would respond respectfully and acording to the best practices of forum response...may i ask:

Why do individuals generalize -particularly- on Christianity related issues?
Why do individuals missinterpret - particularly - on Christianity related issues?

Vague questions but perhaps the answers will be more precise...

Thanks

Because that's what labels,categorizations, denominations etc invite. That's what dogma, doctrine, and ideology invite. At least in a polarized/dualistic "reality".
If you want to be an individual, then Be one. Drop the tags and labels and liberate yourself.

[michael christopher]

The same question could be asked of why Christians generalize, and why they misinterpret their own scriptures.

[tannah]

Assuming everyone would respond respectfully and acording to the best practices of forum response...may i ask:

Why do individuals generalize -particularly- on Christianity related issues?
Why do individuals missinterpret - particularly - on Christianity related issues?

Vague questions but perhaps the answers will be more precise...

Thanks

It's discernment that has meant I have to walk away from Christianity. You mention somewhere else about good morals in the bible and other stuff. But it's easy for me to see why I can't label myself a christian. It's easy for me to see why I can't see the bible as the word of God. It's to do with the murders of children. It's to do with undertsanding where these stories came from, and they didn't come from God.

Another recent discernment is that it seems no one can question this bible without upsetting someone personally. Does that mean then that the bible can't be questioned in order to keep christians feeling they are not being attacked? What kind of intolerable position is that? Should I start a thread where christians are asked not to post, so others can exercise their right to question books like the bible?

[miracles]

Assuming everyone would respond respectfully and acording to the best practices of forum response...may i ask:

Why do individuals generalize -particularly- on Christianity related issues?
Why do individuals missinterpret - particularly - on Christianity related issues?

Vague questions but perhaps the answers will be more precise...

Thanks

Becuase they a have a closed, blinded mind with no understanding of Christianity other than disinformation. It then makes it easier to generalize, that and laziness and scally wagg, ratbaggery, particularly when they start quoting scripture.

[tannah]

Becuase they a have a closed, blinded mind with no understanding of Christianity other than disinformation. It then makes it easier to generalize, that and laziness and scally wagg, ratbaggery, particularly when they start quoting scripture.

So, is this the thread to discuss this accusation, or are you going to start insulting and crying if one scrutinizes what you are saying and promoting?

I'll start by asking why God killing first born babies is moral. Please also back up your accusation of disinformation.

[kappy0405]

Why do individuals generalize -particularly- on Christianity related issues?
Why do individuals missinterpret - particularly - on Christianity related issues?

Vague questions but perhaps the answers will be more precise...



vague questions won't be so vague with examples..

...

[miracles]

So, is this the thread to discuss this accusation, or are you going to start insulting and crying if one scrutinizes what you are saying and promoting?

I'll start by asking why God killing first born babies is moral. Please also back up your accusation of disinformation.

God wipes out evil cultures justly, get over it, he is God. If he hadnt wiped them out you would have been taking it up the arse from birth or been a sacrifice to baal at seven after being sodomised your whole early existence. Your choice

[tannah]

God wipes out evil cultures justly, get over it, he is God. If he hadnt wiped them out you would have been taking up the arse from birth or been a sacrifice to baal at seven after being sodomised your whole early existence. Your choice

Is that what they mean by Baalshit? Was he catholic?

No, the god that you are identifying with isn't God. Get used to it.:D

[miracles]

Is that what they mean by Baalshit? Was he catholic?

No, the god that you are identifying with isn't God. Get used to it.:D

You always want to have the last turd don't you, be my guest :D

[rapunzel]

God wipes out evil cultures justly, get over it, he is God. If he hadnt wiped them out you would have been taking it up the arse from birth or been a sacrifice to baal at seven after being sodomised your whole early existence. Your choice

It must be a coincidence that these so called "evil cultures" just happened to be occupying land the early Israelites wanted? Never heard of black propoganda?

[michael christopher]

It must be a coincidence that these so called "evil cultures" just happened to be occupying land the early Israelites wanted? Never heard of black propoganda?

COINCIDENCE!!!

Or maybe God put the evil people on that land to steward over it til' the Saturn-worshiping Israelites came to kill them.

[fallensoul]

Or maybe God put the evil people on that land to steward over it til' the Saturn-worshiping Israelites came to kill them.

Yeah he set up the battlefield so his blood thirsty disciples could make war with "justification" :P

[michael christopher]

Yeah he set up the battlefield so his blood thirsty disciples could make war with "justification" :P

God must be really bored setting up all these genocides for entertainment. I mean, he could have prevented them by making man peaceful, but that wasn't his intention I guess - maybe eternity is so boring that he decided to make a hell on earth for his amusement. That would explain all the human sacrifices he demanded in Deuteronomy! :p

[miracles]

It must be a coincidence that these so called "evil cultures" just happened to be occupying land the early Israelites wanted? Never heard of black propoganda?

Well according to the bible these cultures where worshipping pagan images and sacrificing children to their gods and involved in all manner of sick twisted sexual perversion.

[tannah]

It's pretty discernable that christians do not wish for unity.
Their victories have always been cheap. Call the other cultures evil, accuse them of sacrificing children to gods, and then go make war on them.

I have yet to meet a christian that is true to their bible who does not have a trigger point at same stage. And that stage is when perfectly reasonable questions about their god are being asked. At that stage they will either ignore you, tell you that that isn't true christianity or simply get mad that you are blaspheming their god.

It's an insult to be accused by both muslims and christians as being someone who does not wish for unity. We will never have unity as long as the bible and the quaran are said to be God's word. It's in the nature of their own books to shun unity.

In fact the nicest christians tend to be part time in nature, not really knowing much about the contents of their favoured book, but simply looking for a group of people to relate to. It's the militant types, like Miracles, who cause a lot of bad feeling in this world.

If someone was told to stop criticising the Bush administration at the time, and simply to unite behind him, we would know just how silly that is. Yet people like Adbasque are saying this, and are very critical of those that are exposing his religion and that of christianity as no more than man made mythology about God.

We can't unite behind an illusion, or at least I refuse to.

It's also noticeable that a silly tactic used by the militant religious types is to put critics on ignore. That way they will have a free reign to spread their dogma without being challenged.

Sometimes things discerned are not always pleasant. It's what we are prepared to do about it that defines the course that humanity takes.
Like one drop in the ocean is as important as all the other drops, all of us play an important part in how humanity shapes up.

It is no longer acceptable (to me anyway) that a baby killer is allowed to be seen as the God of Love. If I were a christian I would be looking to solve this inconsistency, and perhaps pushing for a new way to look at the bible.

And for making this post I will probably be told by a christian or muslim just how hateful and insulting I am.

[stfd]

It's pretty discernable that christians do not wish for unity.
Their victories have always been cheap. Call the other cultures evil, accuse them of sacrificing children to gods, and then go make war on them.

I have yet to meet a christian that is true to their bible who does not have a trigger point at same stage. And that stage is when perfectly reasonable questions about their god are being asked. At that stage they will either ignore you, tell you that that isn't true christianity or simply get mad that you are blaspheming their god.

It's an insult to be accused by both muslims and christians as being someone who does not wish for unity. We will never have unity as long as the bible and the quaran are said to be God's word. It's in the nature of their own books to shun unity.

In fact the nicest christians tend to be part time in nature, not really knowing much about the contents of their favoured book, but simply looking for a group of people to relate to. It's the militant types, like Miracles, who cause a lot of bad feeling in this world.

If someone was told to stop criticising the Bush administration at the time, and simply to unite behind him, we would know just how silly that is. Yet people like Adbasque are saying this, and are very critical of those that are exposing his religion and that of christianity as no more than man made mythology about God.

We can't unite behind an illusion, or at least I refuse to.

It's also noticeable that a silly tactic used by the militant religious types is to put critics on ignore. That way they will have a free reign to spread their dogma without being challenged.

Sometimes things discerned are not always pleasant. It's what we are prepared to do about it that defines the course that humanity takes.
Like one drop in the ocean is as important as all the other drops, all of us play an important part in how humanity shapes up.

It is no longer acceptable (to me anyway) that a baby killer is allowed to be seen as the God of Love. If I were a christian I would be looking to solve this inconsistency, and perhaps pushing for a new way to look at the bible.

And for making this post I will probably be told by a christian or muslim just how hateful and insulting I am.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I will probably be told by a christian or muslim just how hateful and insulting I am"
I will not tell you that.



"It is no longer acceptable (to me anyway) that a baby killer is allowed to be seen as the God of Love. If I were a christian I would be looking to solve this inconsistency, and perhaps pushing for a new way to look at the bible."

I have explained how and why it is not so, quite a few times...
I mean is fine if you feel like ignoring my explanation(s) but at least keep it for yourself.

There is no inconsistency whatsoever - again something i have TRIED to explain before.
As for looking at the Bible in another way - there is only ONE just 'way' of looking at the Bible.
Only one just way out of a myriad of possibilities.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Can YOU make use of discernment?

[tannah]

"It is no longer acceptable (to me anyway) that a baby killer is allowed to be seen as the God of Love. If I were a christian I would be looking to solve this inconsistency, and perhaps pushing for a new way to look at the bible."

I have explained how and why it is not so, quite a few times...
I mean is fine if you feel like ignoring my explanation(s) but at least keep it for yourself.


You say you've explained why god didn't kill the first born of Egypt, for example? When wa sthat, I must have misse dit, sorory. Point me to the explanation or try again.



There is no inconsistency whatsoever - again something i have TRIED to explain before.
As for looking at the Bible in another way - there is only ONE just 'way' of looking at the Bible.
Only one just way out of a myriad of possibilities.


Well what is that one and only way?

[stfd]

[QUOTE=stfd;



You say you've explained why god didn't kill the first born of Egypt, for example? When wa sthat, I must have misse dit, sorory. Point me to the explanation or try again.




Well what is that one and only way?

Alright, i will try once more then.
First i will need an answer from you however.


Do you have an issue with a certain verse/phrase,paragraph in the Bible that doesnt seem to make sense which IF 'understood' would deliver belief?

Do you have an issue of unresolved principle? Do you know whether do you actually understand this priciple?

Im asking because i need to figure out what the 'symptoms' of your disbelief are.


Aditionally, as i am not a theologist would you be so kind to paste here the -whole- context in which this line which 'bothers' you is?

[fallensoul]

Alright, i will try once more then.
First i will need an answer from you however.


Do you have an issue with a certain verse/phrase,paragraph in the Bible that doesnt seem to make sense which IF 'understood' would deliver belief?

Do you have an issue of unresolved principle? Do you know whether do you actually understand this priciple?

Im asking because i need to figure out what the 'symptoms' of your disbelief are.


Aditionally, as i am not a theologist would you be so kind to paste here the -whole- context in which this line which 'bothers' you is?

Okay sorry for jumping right in. BUT if you ask me everything you are asking is unrelevant, as an omnipotent being etc, killing babies would be the last way to resolve conflict or deliver justice. There must be many better and less evil ways to go about delivering the message, effect, lesson, justice. What ever you want to call it. The passage of killing the babies proves that this can not be the word of god of infinite love, but rather man made image of a god who has a very primitive sense of justice.

[tannah]

Alright, i will try once more then.
First i will need an answer from you however.


Do you have an issue with a certain verse/phrase,paragraph in the Bible that doesnt seem to make sense which IF 'understood' would deliver belief?

Do you have an issue of unresolved principle? Do you know whether do you actually understand this priciple?

Im asking because i need to figure out what the 'symptoms' of your disbelief are.


Aditionally, as i am not a theologist would you be so kind to paste here the -whole- context in which this line which 'bothers' you is?


Dude, I don't suffer "disbelief". My awareness of God began at the age of 5 or 6 years of age. I've probably been a meditator on God and the creative principle for twice your age, because for some reason you come across as quite young.

Throughout my life I have become more and more solid on what is truth to me and not to be scared of rejecting illusion.

I don't reject God, I reject the bible as the word of God, and for various reasons which I have made abundantly clear. I also reject the quran on the same basis.

I began life as a Christian, mainly because my parents would make sure we all went to church on Sundays. I grew out of this faith when my own awareness of reason made it intolerable for me to consider myself part of its structure.

People are known by their fruits. Those qualities are not specific to a certain religion. If I help others and show compassion and love, and I don't do it in the name of any specific faith, it makes my qualities no less. That in itself dismisses the idea that one needs a certian faith before they receive these qualities.

I reject eternal damnation. I reject a God known to have killed babies in the name of Love. I don't accept I'm being hateful for speaking my mind on these sensitive issues.

My advice to you would be to read the bible from a neutral frame of mind, and you'll no doubt find passages yourself that may make you feel uncomfortable. At that point you can dismiss them and still feel comfortable, or you can simply go out into the world and show what qualities you have, and leave the judgment to others.

[stfd]

Okay sorry for jumping right in. BUT if you ask me everything you are asking is unrelevant, as an omnipotent being etc, killing babies would be the last way to resolve conflict or deliver justice. There must be many better and less evil ways to go about delivering the message, effect, lesson, justice. What ever you want to call it. The passage of killing the babies proves that this can not be the word of god of infinite love, but rather man made image of a god who has a very primitive sense of justice.

Is exactly what i will TRY to exaplain.

That a such massacre did not take place ' because God told someone to do it' .

I'm very curious what the context in which the phrase the guy is reffering to is.

[stfd]

Dude, I don't suffer "disbelief". My awareness of God began at the age of 5 or 6 years of age. I've probably been a meditator on God and the creative principle for twice your age, because for some reason you come across as quite young.

Throughout my life I have become more and more solid on what is truth to me and not to be scared of rejecting illusion.

I don't reject God, I reject the bible as the word of God, and for various reasons which I have made abundantly clear. I also reject the quran on the same basis.

I began life as a Christian, mainly because my parents would make sure we all went to church on Sundays. I grew out of this faith when my own awareness of reason made it intolerable for me to consider myself part of its structure.

People are known by their fruits. Those qualities are not specific to a certain religion. If I help others and show compassion and love, and I don't do it in the name of any specific faith, it makes my qualities no less. That in itself dismisses the idea that one needs a certian faith before they receive these qualities.

I reject eternal damnation. I reject a God known to have killed babies in the name of Love. I don't accept I'm being hateful for speaking my mind on these sensitive issues.

My advice to you would be to read the bible from a neutral frame of mind, and you'll no doubt find passages yourself that may make you feel uncomfortable. At that point you can dismiss them and still feel comfortable, or you can simply go out into the world and show what qualities you have, and leave the judgment to others.


My age is irrelevant and so is yours(in this context).
Would you be so kind to provide the context then?

[tannah]

My age is irrelevant and so is yours(in this context).
Would be so kind to provide the context then?

Have you forgotten to drink your milk today? Take the mist away from your eyes. There have been many passages already quoted here in the last couple of weeks about certain actions of this "God". They include killing the first born of Egypt, and many nations that stood in Israel's way. It reeks of political manipulation and using God as an entity that is on the side of the conquerers. God doesn't side with the lust of nations and their policies for domination.

[stfd]

Have you forgotten to drink your milk today? Take the mist away from your eyes. There have been many passages already quoted here in the last couple of weeks about certain actions of this "God". They include killing the first born of Egypt, and many nations that stood in Israel's way. It reeks of political manipulation and using God as an entity that is on the side of the conquerers. God doesn't side with the lust of nations and their policies for domination.

Okay.

[fallensoul]

Seriously stfd, the passages have been quoted multiple times.

Exodus 10, verse 27, "But the Lord hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he would not let them go." Then in verse 29; we read "And it came to pass, that at midnight the Lord smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of the Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle"

God killing babies, what is hard to see here?

(Deut. 28, verse 16) God is made to say: "But of the cities of these people, which the Lord thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth."

God messing in humans political agendas, and giving orders to slay everything men, women and children and animals.

(1 Samuel 6, verse 19) "And He smote the men of Bethsemesh, because they had looked into the ark of the Lord, even he smote of the people fifty thousand and threescore and ten men: and the people lamented, because the Lord had smitten many of the people with great slaughter."

For looking inside some ark he again goes on a killing spree, how bout not create that ark or maybe MAYBE hide it better so no need for killing shitload of people. "Great slaughter" Nice choice of words..

[stfd]

Seriously stfd, the passages have been quoted multiple times.


God killing babies, what is hard to see here?



God messing in humans political agendas, and giving orders to slay everything men, women and children and animals.



For looking inside some ark he again goes on a killing spree, how bout not create that ark or maybe MAYBE hide it better so no need for killing shitload of people. "Great slaughter" Nice choice of words..

Okay those are the specific lines.
Would you mind posting them in their specific contexts?


PS: is fine if you dont feel like it; also there is no need to get angry.

[fallensoul]

Oh I wasn't getting angry really, some frustration thats all.

Well I have stated previously that the context is irrelevant in my opinion, since I see no justification for these actions. And it seems to contradict with the allegedly benevolent nature of god. If he indeed is omnipotent why just not make the evil people vanish or something.

[fff_666]

Okay those are the specific lines.
Would you mind posting them in their specific contexts?


PS: is fine if you dont feel like it; also there is no need to get angry.

for a god thumper you sure dont know much about the bible buddy, even I know what those passages are talking about and I havent read the bible in 5 years. the exodus is just that from the book of exodus, its part of those infamous plagues god sent upon the egyptians cuz they wouldnt give his people their land?

[manxboz]

Religion isn't ment to be clear. It's ment to be sumthing that a human feels deep down inside. It's a shame that alot of it seems to be Christianity bashing, maybe we should ask for a different specialist forum space where you can all bash christianity. But many Religions and there 'gods' killed people, no need to just pick on Christianity. Man we're all gonna be sorry when the mormons turn out to be the true faith, including me.

[stfd]

for a god thumper you sure dont know much about the bible buddy, even I know what those passages are talking about and I havent read the bible in 5 years. the exodus is just that from the book of exodus, its part of those infamous plagues god sent upon the egyptians cuz they wouldnt give his people their land?

i am not a 'God thumper'.

[stfd]

Oh I wasn't getting angry really, some frustration thats all.

Well I have stated previously that the context is irrelevant in my opinion, since I see no justification for these actions. And it seems to contradict with the allegedly benevolent nature of god. If he indeed is omnipotent why just not make the evil people vanish or something.

To me context does matter.
It may shed a light on what the words used actually mean.
I will not take them 'mot a mot' .

[fff_666]

To me context does matter.
It may shed a light on what the words used actually mean.
I will not take them 'mot a mot' .

it shouldnt have to though because the bible is the " irrefutable word of god" therefore every word and letter should be meticulously chosen and no need for interpretation should be necessary. except when things dont make sense then people seem to be allowed to make whatever interpretation they want provided it is nt against god correct?

[tannah]

Religion isn't ment to be clear. It's ment to be sumthing that a human feels deep down inside. It's a shame that alot of it seems to be Christianity bashing, maybe we should ask for a different specialist forum space where you can all bash christianity. But many Religions and there 'gods' killed people, no need to just pick on Christianity. Man we're all gonna be sorry when the mormons turn out to be the true faith, including me.

The word isn't "bashed", it's "being exposed". An important question in my mind is "is the bible true christianity, or has the truth of it been twisted". That's two questions really.

And it isn't just the bible, but the quran too that is full of strange actions attributed to a merciful , all-knowing and loving God.

The big con here is that people like myself, Fallensoul, MC, tJohn and others are being accused of insulting people. And that isn't true. It's the "with us or against us" type propoganda that people like George Bush wanted to use, in that any criticism of his agenda would make one a terrorist supporter.

It's a silly tactic, and I really don't think it will work at the DI forum.
There is nothing at all wrong with questioning books that profess to being the "word of God". If it doesn't stand up to reality, or another reality can be exposed through what is being said in these books, that's a positive step, and anyone wishing to get to the truth shouldn't have to apologize for presenting "uncomfortable" sounding criticism.

So why doesn't the God of the OT in particular, stand up to reality?
Why do the qualities assigned to this God contradict themselves in the same book that professes is God speaking to mankind? Has the truth been twisted, and if so, for what purpose? Is it to keep people enslaved whilst preteding to give them freedom? If so, is that why books like the bible and quran are still around today? And if they are exposed as being a fraudulent vision of God, can this help mankind?

[marpat]

Assuming everyone would respond respectfully and acording to the best practices of forum response...may i ask:

Why do individuals generalize -particularly- on Christianity related issues?
Why do individuals missinterpret - particularly - on Christianity related issues?

Vague questions but perhaps the answers will be more precise...

Thanks

Thats odd because I am an occultist and find people generalise about that, even christians, although there are so many points of view on the subject

[kingmonkey]

People generalize and misinterpret all kinds of things. It's a common human trait. See, I just did it about generalizing and human traits.

[tannah]

People generalize and misinterpret all kinds of things. It's a common human trait. See, I just did it about generalizing and human traits.

Which is why focusing on the specifics is like dislodging the can of beans that allows the rest to tumble. It makes the supposedly infallable no more than human imagination.

[manxboz]

The word isn't "bashed", it's "being exposed". An important question in my mind is "is the bible true christianity, or has the truth of it been twisted". That's two questions really.

And it isn't just the bible, but the quran too that is full of strange actions attributed to a merciful , all-knowing and loving God.

The big con here is that people like myself, Fallensoul, MC, tJohn and others are being accused of insulting people. And that isn't true. It's the "with us or against us" type propoganda that people like George Bush wanted to use, in that any criticism of his agenda would make one a terrorist supporter.

It's a silly tactic, and I really don't think it will work at the DI forum.
There is nothing at all wrong with questioning books that profess to being the "word of God". If it doesn't stand up to reality, or another reality can be exposed through what is being said in these books, that's a positive step, and anyone wishing to get to the truth shouldn't have to apologize for presenting "uncomfortable" sounding criticism.

So why doesn't the God of the OT in particular, stand up to reality?
Why do the qualities assigned to this God contradict themselves in the same book that professes is God speaking to mankind? Has the truth been twisted, and if so, for what purpose? Is it to keep people enslaved whilst preteding to give them freedom? If so, is that why books like the bible and quran are still around today? And if they are exposed as being a fraudulent vision of God, can this help mankind?

Ok then, well i think Yehovah (OT) and God are two different beings entirerly. Yes but you are accused or bashing because you aren't letting people have their own freedom, you are attacking sumthing they love dearly. I'm sure if sumone attacked your family you would defend, the same is here.

[tannah]

Ok then, well i think Yehovah (OT) and God are two different beings entirerly.

I agree



Yes but you are accused or bashing because you aren't letting people have their own freedom, you are attacking sumthing they love dearly. I'm sure if sumone attacked your family you would defend, the same is here.

People have all the freedom they dare themselves to have. I'm not attacking anyone's family. If I loved being blind and walking over cliffs, is there anyone loves me enough to come to try and rescue me from myself?

I will assume that when someone responds to a post of mine that I have the freedom to respond with how I see things. I'm always open to being wrong, if someone can show me where my reasoning is flawed.

[fallensoul]

Ok then, well i think Yehovah (OT) and God are two different beings entirerly. Yes but you are accused or bashing because you aren't letting people have their own freedom, you are attacking sumthing they love dearly. I'm sure if sumone attacked your family you would defend, the same is here.

If this is how you see our right to opinion then we couldn't even question the bible because in your eyes we attack you personally. The mere notion that you feel threatened by what we said is a proof that you are afraid to admit to something that doesn't feel quite right to you.

Don't take it personally when we debate a book that has been around thousands of years. It is not about you, not about your beliefs, it is about the book and what it contains. Get rid of that victim mentality, it is poison, because it is hard to have any meaningful debate if you are always on the defensive when the initiative was never to attack, rather DISCUSS.

And I agree about the different god in OT and NT approach. That is the first step.

[manxboz]

Ok you have a right but remember nothing you say will ever change people's minds. God to Christians is their father in heaven and attacking it is attacking their family.

[manxboz]

If this is how you see our right to opinion then we couldn't even question the bible because in your eyes we attack you personally. The mere notion that you feel threatened by what we said is a proof that you are afraid to admit to something that doesn't feel quite right to you.

Don't take it personally when we debate a book that has been around thousands of years. It is not about you, not about your beliefs, it is about the book and what it contains. Get rid of that victim mentality, it is poison, because it is hard to have any meaningful debate if you are always on the defensive when the initiative was never to attack, rather DISCUSS.

And I agree about the different god in OT and NT approach. That is the first step.

I'm not seeing you as attacking my Religion, i dnt have one anymore. I believe in me, but i feel for those you attack.

[kingmonkey]

Which is why focusing on the specifics is like dislodging the can of beans that allows the rest to tumble. It makes the supposedly infallable no more than human imagination.


Yes I agree. I said almost the exact same thing - albeit in a completely different way - about another subject yesterday. That 's how all conspiracies work; people concentrate on the bigger picture and ignore all the deviish little details that bring the thing crashing to its knees. It works just as well with Christianity as it does with the NWO,zionist agenda, zeitgeist and a host of other conspiracies out there.

[stfd]

Yes I agree. I said almost the exact same thing - albeit in a completely different way - about another subject yesterday. That 's how all conspiracies work; people concentrate on the bigger picture and ignore all the deviish little details that bring the thing crashing to its knees. It works just as well with Christianity as it does with the NWO,zionist agenda, zeitgeist and a host of other conspiracies out there.

Cristianity isn't a 'conspiracy' ...
Is a 'code of conduct/values/principles.
Is a way of life and the way TO life.

[fallensoul]

I'm not seeing you as attacking my Religion, i dnt have one anymore. I believe in me, but i feel for those you attack.

Oh okay, well in my defense, they came to David Icke forum for crying out loud, it was their choice, and if they feel somehow attacked by any of the members here then they can only blame themselves, they made the choice to come, not us who discuss it here.

[tannah]

Cristianity isn't a 'conspiracy' ...
Is a 'code of conduct/values/principles.
Is a way of life and the way TO life.

Codes of conduct/values/principles are far larger than Christianity.

Anyone who is presently loving their neighbour, helping the poor, standing up to injustice against children , old people, suppressed cultures (like Burma and Tibet), is doing the Will of that which is of Heaven.

But if one attempts to place boundaries around these natural qualities, it will create war. At some stage christians and muslims must fall out, for example, because both proffess that their book is the word of God, both claim that God gave them the same land, and both think they are the chosen of God.

So it isn't freedom that books like the bible and quran end up giving man, it's restriction and a justified excuse to wage war. As evidence I present you HISTORY as we think we know it.:)

God is quite "happy" to act outside the restrictions of these books. It's a farce to think otherwise.

[stfd]

Oh okay, well in my defense, they came to David Icke forum for crying out loud, it was their choice, and if they feel somehow attacked by any of the members here then they can only blame themselves, they made the choice to come, not us who discuss it here.

Yup now THAT is entirelly true.
Anyone who doesnt like it can at any time 'leave'.
I am about at that point btw :)
Oh and fallensoul... thanks for kinda keepin it cool.

[manxboz]

Oh okay, well in my defense, they came to David Icke forum for crying out loud, it was their choice, and if they feel somehow attacked by any of the members here then they can only blame themselves, they made the choice to come, not us who discuss it here.

ok well we'll work that way, lets hear your beliefs and lets strip them down. But seriously, these people are looking for enlightenment, not to be torn down.

[stfd]

Codes of conduct/values/principles are far larger than Christianity.

Anyone who is presently loving their neighbour, helping the poor, standing up to injustice against children , old people, suppressed cultures (like Burma and Tibet), is doing the Will of that which is of Heaven.

But if one attempts to place boundaries around these natural qualities, it will create war. At some stage christians and muslims must fall out, for example, because both proffess that their book is the word of God, both claim that God gave them the same land, and both think they are the chosen of God.

So it isn't freedom that books like the bible and quran end up giving man, it's restriction and a justified excuse to wage war. As evidence I present you HISTORY as we think we know it.:)

God is quite "happy" to act outside the restrictions of these books. It's a farce to think otherwise.

There are no 'boundaries' in Christianity, no restrictions.

[tannah]

There are no 'boundaries' in Christianity, no restrictions.

You my friend are hard of perceiving. Are there any boundaries and restrictions in Islam and the quran then? Please answer.

[fallensoul]

ok well we'll work that way, lets hear your beliefs and lets strip them down. But seriously, these people are looking for enlightenment, not to be torn down


I hate, money, authorities, governments, corrupt legal system, everything corrupt, IGNORANCE, BLIND BELIEF, and many other things.

I love, freedom, truth, peace, Justice among many things.

Mind you I do not believe in anything, I have no set belief system, I can determine from everything I have studied that there is no way of knowing any absolute truth. I will follow my heart and the voice of reason, not some ancient religion for laughing out loud, how are we to evolve if we all convert into one religion that is fucking thousands of years old.. we will be forever stuck in deep shit. I have no dogma, I BELIEVE IN MYSELF, ONLY

RIP AWAY :D

Had to edit it a bit because it was originally reply to one person, but it sums up my beliefs. This also sums up all my "beliefs".

Amidst the mayhem we must all find our place. I know my way just read the smile on my face, No need for god or salvation. Stay on my path of dedication. You seek the light in vain, I rest my case.

Oh and fallensoul... thanks for kinda keepin it cool.

Hey I am here to discuss, I wish not to make enemies, but what happens, happens :P So no problem.

[kingmonkey]

Cristianity isn't a 'conspiracy' ...
Is a 'code of conduct/values/principles.
Is a way of life and the way TO life.


I'm not gonna get into a debate about Christianity; I'm saying in a round about way, that people who are skeptical towards Christianity should also be skeptical in their own beliefs. They will attack Christianity as being fake, but not even address issues surrounding evidence in regards their own beliefs. I don't believe in christianity, but I also don't believe most of it's opponents in the "truth" movement.

Example: I don't buy into Christianity, but I also know what a complete pile of trash Zeitgeist is.

[manxboz]

I hate, money, authorities, governments, corrupt legal system, everything corrupt, IGNORANCE, BLIND BELIEF, and many other things.

I love, freedom, truth, peace, Justice among many things.

Mind you I do not believe in anything, I have no set belief system, I can determine from everything I have studied that there is no way of knowing any absolute truth. I will follow my heart and the voice of reason, not some ancient religion for laughing out loud, how are we to evolve if we all convert into one religion that is fucking thousands of years old.. we will be forever stuck in deep shit. I have no dogma, for you to say I follow a dogma. I BELIEVE IN MYSELF, ONLY

RIP AWAY :D

Had to edit it a bit because it was originally reply to one person, but it sums up my beliefs. This also sums up all my "beliefs".





Hey I am here to discuss, I wish not to make enemies, but what happens, happens :P So no problem.

Well, i'm glad to see we are on the same page, i also believe in myself. I follow many religions but only for the goodness they give me, not the things that are made to control men.

[stfd]

You my friend are hard of perceiving. Are there any boundaries and restrictions in Islam and the quran then? Please answer.

I am not a Muslim.
I have only a very very basic knowledge of Islam.
Therefore i can't speak from a knowledgeable position.

However, i was raised a Christian and i have more then a basic knowledge of Christianity at least sufficient to satisfy my personal 'needs' of inquiry.

[tannah]

I am not a Muslim.
I have only a very very basic knowledge of Islam.
Therefore i can't speak from a knowledgeable position.

However, i was raised a Christian and i have more then a basic knowledge of Christianity at least sufficient to satisfy my personal 'needs' of inquiry.

Well I think you'd find they have the same view of their religion as unrestricting and without boundaries. And you can't both be right in this case. The wars between these two religions are not so much because of their differences but their similarities.

[stfd]

Well I think you'd find they have the same view of their religion as unrestricting and without boundaries. And you can't both be right in this case. The wars between these two religions are not so much because of their differences but their similarities.


"Well I think you'd find they have the same view of their religion as unrestricting and without boundaries"
Okay, and whats wrong with that.
I respect them for what they are.

"And you can't both be right in this case."
Do you mean 'both' as in both Christians and Muslim?
If yes, then yes we can.
We can both be right simultaneously- not in regards to dogmatic issues but in regards to basic moral principles and fundamnetal values.
AND THAT can allow us all to live in peace and with great regard to one another.


"The wars between these two religions are not so much because of their differences but their similarities"
There were never wars between religions.
There were always wars betwwen people.People who were deceived into following those who led them to their destruction.
There were never actually any wars in 'the name of God' but there were however those who worked towards getting that iddea implemented- and damn they did a good job at it.
Is all a great lie to get us all destroyed, to take away from us - piece by piece- those 'things' which make us who we are.
So that in the end we remain like drones which are no more than living chunks of meat.
Is a great deception, through the ages the 'ideea' that faith divides has gone deep - and now is almost to the point where only the fact that you dare call yourself of this faith of or the other triggers automatic hate and desgust...
Trully, difficult times ahead.

[tannah]

"Well I think you'd find they have the same view of their religion as unrestricting and without boundaries"
Okay, and whats wrong with that.
I respect them for what they are.

"And you can't both be right in this case."
Do you mean 'both' as in both Christians and Muslim?
If yes, then yes we can.
We can both be right simultaneously- not in regards to dogmatic issues but in regards to basic moral principles and fundamnetal values.
AND THAT can allow us all to live in peace and with great regard to one another.


"The wars between these two religions are not so much because of their differences but their similarities"
There were never wars between religions.
There were always wars betwwen people.People who were deceived into following those who led them to their destruction.
There were never actually any wars in 'the name of God' but there were however those who worked towards getting that iddea implemented- and damn they did a good job at it.
Is all a great lie to get us all destroyed, to take away from us - piece by piece- those 'things' which make us who we are.
So that in the end we remain like drones which are no more than living chunks of meat.
Is a great deception, through the ages the 'ideea' that faith divides has gone deep - and now is almost to the point where only the fact that you dare call yourself of this faith of or the other triggers automatic hate and desgust...
Trully, difficult times ahead.

What you're saying is that you have different beliefs to those set out in the bible as a whole. Good, so have I.

I'd get used to the fact that spirit has evolved past the bible. The only card the ptb have to play now is a fake second coming. They don't want free people. They would rather have you blind and usable. Don't think the glorious BS religions of this world are not keeping people blind. But you probably like to be a bit blind don't you? After all, you've been offered a place in paradise simply for having faith in Jesus the saviour of your soul. Well, I never had any faith you could reach enlightenment on your own stfd.:D That's a joke btw.

Yes you must have weighed it up no doubt "hey, I can't do it, and God's now come down and done it for me". I like that, think I'll have to settle for it after all.:) Phew!


On the other hand my best friends seem to be heading for hell, poor things. So, nope, think I will say no to the Jesus offer, and be faithful to my friends. Love 'em dearly.

[michael christopher]

I'm not gonna get into a debate about Christianity; I'm saying in a round about way, that people who are skeptical towards Christianity should also be skeptical in their own beliefs. They will attack Christianity as being fake, but not even address issues surrounding evidence in regards their own beliefs. I don't believe in christianity, but I also don't believe most of it's opponents in the "truth" movement.

Example: I don't buy into Christianity, but I also know what a complete pile of trash Zeitgeist is.

Typical. "I don't need to defend my own beliefs when I can just attack yours!" Here's a fact, no matter how many flaws you can point out with Zeitgeist or other religions, you still can't get past the FACT that a pagan and Jewish council in Nicea created the Bible in 325 AD by editing ancient sacred texts and completely altering their content. FACT.

[fallensoul]

Typical. "I don't need to defend my own beliefs when I can just attack yours!" Here's a fact, no matter how many flaws you can point out with Zeitgeist or other religions, you still can't get past the FACT that a pagan and Jewish council in Nicea created the Bible in 325 AD by editing ancient sacred texts and completely altering their content. FACT.

What I somehow missed everything you said it must be lies! MUST BE SATANS DECEPTION!

:p

[stfd]

What you're saying is that you have different beliefs to those set out in the bible as a whole. Good, so have I.

I'd get used to the fact that spirit has evolved past the bible. The only card the ptb have to play now is a fake second coming. They don't want free people. They would rather have you blind and usable. Don't think the glorious BS religions of this world are not keeping people blind. But you probably like to be a bit blind don't you? After all, you've been offered a place in paradise simply for having faith in Jesus the saviour of your soul. Well, I never had any faith you could reach enlightenment on your own stfd.:D That's a joke btw.

Yes you must have weighed it up no doubt "hey, I can't do it, and God's now come down and done it for me". I like that, think I'll have to settle for it after all.:) Phew!


On the other hand my best friends seem to be heading for hell, poor things. So, nope, think I will say no to the Jesus offer, and be faithful to my friends. Love 'em dearly.


Why do you twist my words mr tannah?
I mean is cool but do you not see that when the leafs on trees turn yellow, it means that autumn comes?

The Bible tells me autumn comes.What i see is that the leafs turn yellow.
Hence why i believe the autumn is coming.

Things are simple mr tannah ... quite simple.

[rapunzel]

Well according to the bible these cultures where worshipping pagan images and sacrificing children to their gods and involved in all manner of sick twisted sexual perversion.

That's exactly what I am saying. It is black propaganda by the Israelites. I prefer to trust what the surviving records of a civilisation say rather than the perverted history in the Bible.

[kingmonkey]

What I somehow missed everything you said it must be lies! MUST BE SATANS DECEPTION!

:p


To you and MC, I said in my post I didn't believe in christianity. So your irrelevent satan shit has fallen on deaf ears.

Both the bible and zeitgesit contain fact and fiction, so how do you use discernment to choose? Especially if you're already a xstian? My pioint is that most "truthers" watched zeitgeist and accepted it as fact without using any discernment whatsoever, much as christians do with the bible. Details of both pieces of work are repeated dogmatically.