The nature of things.

[michael christopher]

I'll just give a rundown on what I believe. I belong to no spiritual organization, no religion, and I believe all of those things are viruses to which I am now immune. I know for a fact I am a good person, although I have some bad qualities - namely I let others control my emotions through their actions. I can't take control of myself as often as I would like. I believe this is a human flaw and that we all have it.

So here's what I believe.

First, there is and was and always will be God. I know some people have a problem with using this term because they believe it implies an external force that is greater than we are, but I believe the opposite. I believe it implies an INTERNAL force that is greater than we currently are - our maximum identity. God is eternal. I don't know how it exists, or why. I have an idea that for a long time there was only nothing, oblivion, darkness - and that eventually that darkness realized it was conscious, and began to contemplate. Eventually this light alchemically transmuted into a spark in the darkness - the "enlightnment" or illumination of the darkness with the first hint of understanding. This light grew and began to spread out over the darkness, and is still spreading out over the darkness now. It has been burning so long, and so hot, that it's basically like a Sun. We are existing at the edges of it's light. This center is God. We know where the center of our galaxy is, but it can't be God because there are billions and billions and billions of galaxies.

Over time, as this light spread out and burned long and hot enough, it began to cool and crystalize. This crystallized light is called matter. Inside of the light God in his eternal boredom began to think and want to experience himself. I call God a he because the light and the creative principle is traditionally a male symbol, and the female principle must receive that creative principle in order to manifest it. So the male God is the creation of light, the female God is the womb that nurtures that light to turn it into something. There is an interesting Gnostic gospel where I_S ("Yashua/Jesus") tells the disciple Mary that she will be allowed into heaven when she turns female to male. Most people think this is sexist, but it's actually an alchemical hint. He is saying when she converts her charge, as we all must do, she will enter heaven. When she becomes whole. He could have easily turned to Paul and said "You will get into heaven when you turn the male into female," and meant the same thing. He's talking about spiritual understanding - moving to the other end of the spectrum so that your understanding encompasses all things. So the darkness represents the female principle not because femininity is evil or wrong, because that's completely insane - it's beautiful and necessary and in it's own way positive, although not in the electrical charge sense I am referring to. It is embodied by the cooling effect of the darkness interacting with the heat of the light - creating matter. Creating US.

So in this light, God began to fragment. He wanted to experience both charges, positive and neutral, and thus he created the female principle, the other half. The female equal to himself. Together they are the whole of God, because in order to create, one needs the other.

This female principle is matter.

Matter cannot exist within the center of a sun burning hotter than any sun we can even imagine. Thus matter manifests out on the edges of the light, where we are now - "3D." Now, within the male and female principles/Gods, these principles began to split so that there were four aspects of God. However because time-space is like a painting, the previous versions all still exist. The one God, then the two Gods, male and female, although lesser principles, then their split aspects, and then those aspects split, and on and on down the line until you have an infinite amount of souls. This is how the dimensions break down. I am only going with dimensions 1-9 because any estimation I can make is just arbitrary and numbers probably don't really matter for anything, but it helps me to explain by comparison. 9 would be the one consciousness. 8 would be split, but very close to full understanding - a form of duality, but it's ascending back toward unity. 7 would be where those split. Still oversouls, much higher than we are as we are much further down the family tree.

If I'm not making what I'm saying clear, just let me know and I'll try a different way.

Basically, we are all fragments of God - we are part of his consciousness, trying to re-assemble itself. I think perhaps the fallen angel analogy is appropriate, that our higher selves are in a way fallen angels, but they are only fallen because God keeps switching the charges. Which is fine, because it's natural. The analogy helps us to grow and work back toward God, which is ultimately all we want to do anything, and trying not to do this leads to unhappiness and disillusionment in general. Most people I have met who are honest-to-God atheists are extremely cynical and sarcastic. They are projecting their own inner anxiety outward. There are exceptions to every rule, however.

In the past, these oversouls have been worshiped as Gods. There are also undersouls however, remnants of our past egotism through which we are trying to escape as we head back up the positive charge toward the center of existence - the One principle, the First who always becomes the Last - the Alpha and the Omega simultaneously. God. Because at the end of every run, we come back to it - full understanding. Because it was the first light, the first illumination - the first thing that was not Nothing - and it is what we used to be, will be and are.

I have lots of other extraneous beliefs about angels and spirits but that is the basic point of what I believe.

[stfd]

I'll just give a rundown on what I believe. I belong to no spiritual organization, no religion, and I believe all of those things are viruses to which I am now immune. I know for a fact I am a good person, although I have some bad qualities - namely I let others control my emotions through their actions. I can't take control of myself as often as I would like. I believe this is a human flaw and that we all have it.

So here's what I believe.

First, there is and was and always will be God. I know some people have a problem with using this term because they believe it implies an external force that is greater than we are, but I believe the opposite. I believe it implies an INTERNAL force that is greater than we currently are - our maximum identity. God is eternal. I don't know how it exists, or why. I have an idea that for a long time there was only nothing, oblivion, darkness - and that eventually that darkness realized it was conscious, and began to contemplate. Eventually this light alchemically transmuted into a spark in the darkness - the "enlightnment" or illumination of the darkness with the first hint of understanding. This light grew and began to spread out over the darkness, and is still spreading out over the darkness now. It has been burning so long, and so hot, that it's basically like a tiny sun. This center is God. We know where the center of our galaxy is, but it can't be God because there are billions and billions and billions of galaxies.

Over time, as this light spread out and burned long and hot enough, it began to cool and crystalize. This crystallized light is called matter. Inside of the light God in his eternal boredom began to think and want to experience himself. I call God a he because the light and the creative principle is traditionally a male symbol, and the female principle must receive that creative principle in order to manifest it. So the male God is the creation of light, the female God is the womb that nurtures that light to turn it into something. There is an interesting Gnostic gospel where I_S ("Yashua/Jesus") tells the disciple Mary that she will be allowed into heaven when she turns female to male. Most people think this is sexist, but it's actually an alchemical hint. He is saying when she converts her charge, as we all must do. He could have easily turned to Paul and said "You will get into heaven when you turn the male into female," and meant the same thing. He's talking about spiritual understanding - moving to the other end of the spectrum so that your understanding encompasses all things. So the darkness represents the female principle not because femininity is evil or wrong, because that's completely insane - it's beautiful and necessary and in it's own way positive, although not in the electrical charge sense I am referring to. It is embodied by the cooling effect of the darkness interacting with the heat of the light - creating matter. Creating US.

So in this light, God began to fragment. He wanted to experience both charges, positive and neutral, and thus he created the female principle, the other half. The female equal to himself. Together they are the whole of God, because in order to create, one needs the other.

This female principle is matter.

Matter cannot exist within the center of a sun burning hotter than any sun we can even imagine - it is the most insane furnace you can even imagine. Thus matter manifests out on the edges of the light, where we are now - "3D." Now, within the male and female principles/Gods, these principles began to split so that there were four aspects of God. However because time-space is like a painting, the previous versions all still exist. The one God, then the two Gods, male and female, although lesser principles, then their split aspects, and then those aspects split, and on and on down the line until you have an infinite amount of souls. This is how the dimensions break down. I am only going with dimensions 1-9 because any estimation I can make is just arbitrary and numbers probably don't really matter for anything, but it helps me to explain by comparison. 9 would be the one consciousness. 8 would be split, but very close to full understanding - a form of duality, but it's ascending back toward unity. 7 would be where those split. Still oversouls, much higher than we are as we are much further down the family tree.

If I'm not making what I'm saying clear, just let me know and I'll try a different way.

Basically, we are all fragments of God - we are part of his consciousness, trying to re-assemble itself. I think perhaps the fallen angel analogy is appropriate, that our higher selves are in a way fallen angels, but they are only fallen because God keeps switching the charges. Which is fine, because it's natural. The analogy helps us to grow and work back toward God, which is ultimately all we want to do anything, and trying not to do this leads to unhappiness and disillusionment in general. Most people I have met who are honest-to-God atheists are extremely cynical and sarcastic. They are projecting their own inner anxiety outward. There are exceptions to every rule, however.

In the past, these oversouls have been worshiped as Gods. There are also undersouls however, remnants of our past egotism through which we are trying to escape as we head back up the positive charge toward the center of existence - the One principle, the First who always becomes the Last - the Alpha and the Omega simultaneously. God. Because at the end of every run, we come back to it - full understanding. Because it was the first light, the first illumination - the first thing that was not Nothing - and it is what we used to be, will be and are.

I have lots of other extraneous beliefs about angels and spirits but that is the basic point of what I believe.


Even though i STRONGLY disagree with you with regard to your belief, i believe just as strongly that you have the innate right to have a belief.

As long as the intention is not to agresivelly 'impose' in a way or another this 'stuff' on others AND as long as i am not personally offended - im quite cool with you as a person.

[michael christopher]

Even though i STRONGLY disagree with you with regard to your belief, i believe just as strongly that you have the innate right to have a belief.

As long as the intention is not to agresivelly 'impose' in a way or another this 'stuff' on others AND as long as i am not personally offended - im quite cool with you as a person.

Awesome, I'm glad there is no animosity between us and I really respect you for saying that. :)

[fallensoul]

Great post imho, well written also.

[michael christopher]

Great post imho, well written also.

Thanks!

I might be more specific and do another one later explaining what I think of angels/aliens/demons/etc. Basically, with the exception of 3D life elsewhere in the universe, they're all the same sort of thing.

[fallensoul]

Please do I am always interested in this kind of "transcendental" thinking, trying to explain the wholeness of existence. It is intriguing.

[stfd]

To it feels like this:
I am made of 'pieces'.
One of the peieces which make me - me is to be Christian.

Now if one of those 'pieces' is 'offended --> i , as a person gets offended.
hope i made sense.

[michael christopher]

To it feels like this:
I am made of 'pieces'.
One of the peieces which make me - me is to be Christian.

Now if one of those 'pieces' is 'offended --> i , as a person gets offended.
hope i made sense.

You are right, a piece of you is a Christian, and that piece is in your life right now. That is fine. As much as I rail against what I believe to be unjust about religion, as long as people are not pushing their beliefs on me I cannot say anything negative about them. If someone is peaceful, that is what I really respect more than anything. I don't mean being impassive and letting oneself be taken advantage of, because we must fight back where necessary, but wanting to work toward peace and harmony in the end is really all that is worth valuing, if you ask me. Because that is the essence of God.

There was a piece of me that was Christian... a really big Christian. It had a run of about 9 months.

[themime]

So did God exist in a state of potential before time began?

[michael christopher]

So did God exist in a state of potential before time began?

Yes. All things exist in a state of potential before they exist in a state of being.

[themime]

Is God then finite or simply limited to restrictions imposed by the nature of the substance he created to exist on our plane?

[fallensoul]

Is God then finite or simply limited to restrictions imposed by the nature of the substance he created to exist on our plane?

I liek this question. And thought it about myself, the way I see it is, if you put a bird in the air it can fly and be free. In the eyes of the beings dwelling on earth it is much like an angel, free to roam about.

If you cut its wings, take the essence out it becomes same as annything living on the ground, it will be as restricted.

If you go even further put it underwater, it will drown and can not even move.

Same way if god comes from pure light, if he wishes to come down here, he must take physical form, along with its burdens, in a same way as if bird wishes to go underwater it will not be able to fly, because the enviroment is different than its natural one.

I could have put it better, I hope you got my analogy.

[themime]

Yeah I get what your saying and I kind of agree.

The other view I suppose is that we are simply cogs in the God machine.

However both would mean that God is subject to the rule of cause and effect.

I think I'd be more likely to believe that God exists in both a finite and an infinite form at the same time and isn't limited to the restrictions of the English language. Our God and the God outside existence.

[fallensoul]

I think I'd be more likely to believe that God exists in both a finite and an infinite form at the same time and isn't limited to the restrictions of the English language. Our God and the God outside existence.

Yes this sounds very good to me, fits with omnipresence, omnipotence, and all that yet he could still exist simultaneously as something that is restricted by the laws on this "plane".

But would still be all that he is.

Very good ideas, this is why I love this forum, I feel like I can discuss anything here without prejudice.

[michael christopher]

Yeah I get what your saying and I kind of agree.

The other view I suppose is that we are simply cogs in the God machine.

However both would mean that God is subject to the rule of cause and effect.

I think I'd be more likely to believe that God exists in both a finite and an infinite form at the same time and isn't limited to the restrictions of the English language. Our God and the God outside existence.

I agree, the key to understanding God is resolving the paradox of believing something can only be one thing or the other. This is why God is the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End.

S/he is everything. And nothing.

[fallensoul]

I agree, the key to understanding God is resolving the paradox of believing something can only be one thing or the other. This is why God is the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End.

S/he is everything. And nothing.

Agreed.

[godgoo]

nice post but you made a few errors, and there are a few errors to your understanding but well done. No one said it was easy.

the female God is the womb that nurtures that light to turn it into something The female counterpart is contraction, the male counterpart is expansion. 'Singularity'.

the female God is the womb that nurtures that light to turn it into something Geometric equilibira is at the center, which is god.

We know where the center of our galaxy is, but it can't be God because there are billions and billions and billions of galaxiesGalaxies are the higher dimensional fractal, the atom being one of the smallest known fractal levels (packets of space fabric) God is everywhere and everything, the universe is a fractalized.

"You will get into heaven when you turn the male into female," and meant the same thing. He's talking about spiritual understanding - moving to the other end of the spectrum so that your understanding encompasses all things As we live and breathe, we are a radiation of energy, which is the male counterpart. When we die, we contract we no longer radiate, we become the female counterpart.

So in this light, God began to fragment. He wanted to experience both charges, positive and neutral, and thus he created the female principle, the other half. The female equal to himself. Together they are the whole of God, because in order to create, one needs the other. Female is negative, male is positive. They both coemtogether they creater a neutral. The center, vector equilibria.

This female principle is matter.Female is the contractive force, remeber that it is hidden from light. Male is positive it is exterior to female. Male is radiation, female is contraction.

The one God, then the two Gods, male and female God brings male and female together, to form a neutral. Only one god, two energies.

and on and on down the line until you have an infinite amount of soulsAn infinite ammount of inflations. to define the gemotric shape of the universe and of the souls within that universe to incarnate.

and on and on down the line until you have an infinite amount of souls We exist within the intermediate level of the fractal universe.

[godgoo]

made a few spelling mistakes, not going to re-send. Just put up with it. :)

[themime]

Galaxies are the higher dimensional fractal, the atom being one of the smallest known fractal levels (packets of space fabric) God is everywhere and everything, the universe is a fractalized.



So would 1,000 elephants viewed at a distance become a higher fractal level than 1 elephant in the herd viewed from a few feet away?

[godgoo]

So would 1,000 elephants viewed at a distance become a higher fractal level than 1 elephant in the herd viewed from a few feet away?Dope :)atoms=X10^-34, galaxies= X10^24 We are in between :) It's fractalized, buddy. Save your elephants for your circus.

[godgoo]

As we live and breathe, we are a radiation of energy, which is the male counterpart. When we die, we contract we no longer radiate, we become the female counterpart. We become neutral, cancel out = EP, we are then radiated back into the cosmos, as something, someone? Such is the universe and the cruelty of EVo. here comes EP, peeps.

[themime]

Yes but the point is that your "fractalized" Universe only exists relative to your view point.

Someone standing in one of the other galaxies viewing yours at a distance would see it as a larger fractal. However to you they are the larger fractal and you are at a lower level.


Which view if any is correct?


And I'll thank you to leave my elephants out of this, they are quite sensitive.:D

[godgoo]

Yes but the point is that your "fractalized" Universe only exists relative to your view point.

Someone standing in one of the other galaxies viewing yours at a distance would see it as a larger fractal. However to you they are the larger fractal and you are at a lower level.


Which view if any is correct?


And I'll thank you to leave my elephants out of this, they are quite sensitive.:D

You answered that yourself, well done :) The eye is to distinguish.

[godgoo]

if anyone could answer to me, why? we see stars and we aren't just bathed in light? How do we achieve such a resolution? Those stars are huge, but yet we see them only as dots, this has puzzled me for a long while? Why aren't we saturated in light? surely those stars emitted far more radiation than that? Did that light actually travel through space? So whats going on?

[themime]

if anyone could answer to me, why? we see stars and we aren't just bathed in light? How do we achieve such a resolution? Those stars are huge, but yet we see them only as dots, this has puzzled me for a long while? Why aren't we saturated in light? surely those stars emitted far more radiation than that? Did that light actually travel through space? So whats going on?


Because the Universe isn't static.

[godgoo]

Because the Universe isn't static.I applaud ye, anything else you want to add, buddy? :)

[themime]

Nope, I think that now we've agreed that I'm right were just about done.:D

[godgoo]

Nope, I think that now we've agreed that I'm right were just about done.:DIf you are still pondering the universe isn't fractalized? Then you are wrong, just so you know? If the universe isn't fractalized, then why are these subatomic particles going so small, to planks length? Obviously because they are packets of space fabric, so space is fractalized. How can space be fractalized?

16.163×10^−36 m = 1 planks length, so it is a fractal? It has to be lets be serious, so how strange is that, that means that in every atom there really is mini Bhole, great. :)

[themime]

If you are still pondering the universe isn't fractalized? Then you are wrong, just so you know? If the universe isn't fractalized, then why are these subatomic particles going so small, to planks length? Obviously because they are packets of space fabric, so space is fractalized. How can space be fractalized?


And how can the theory of a fractal Universe explain the observed CMB uniformity?

[godgoo]

And how can the theory of a fractal Universe explain the observed CMB uniformity?
I suggest you go speak to nassim haramein, he has many words for you. :)

http://www.theresonanceproject.org/

[themime]

Kept an open mind and just read the PDF on his site about spin.

He seems to have introduced a component (torque) to space time which isn't needed.

[miracles]

I let others control my emotions through their actions. I can't take control of myself as often as I would like. I believe this is a human flaw and that we all have it.

.


Your just a kidd throwing tantrums. You need to grow up a lot. It's obvious you have no self control. Who is controlling you then? The nature of things is fallen. This is the human flaw and is the very reason all humanity needs redemption, from the outside. The inside job only starts when Christ is invited in. If what you talk about was true, you wouldnt be out of control. You can not defeat the sin nature. Which is why christ/God can and does forgive us, when we humbly realise this and repent. Open the door and let him instead of barracading it shut with self rightousness and self importance.

[tannah]

Your just a kidd throwing tantrums. You need to grow up a lot. It's obvious you have no self control. Who is controlling you then? The nature of things is fallen. This is the human flaw and is the very reason all humanity needs redemption, from the outside. The inside job only starts when Christ is invited in. If what you talk about was true, you wouldnt be out of control. You can not defeat the sin nature. Which is why christ/God can and does forgive us, when we humbly realise this and repent. Open the door and let him instead of barracading it shut with self rightousness and self importance.

You don't seem to have any idea just what a pile of garbage this is.

Redemption from outside eh? Outside from where exactly? Planet earth somewhere? Another planet? Behind the moon?

[miracles]

You don't seem to have any idea just what a pile of garbage this is.

Redemption from outside eh? Outside from where exactly? Planet earth somewhere? Another planet? Behind the moon?

The Holy SPirit is not inside until invited into the unholy and made clean. Jogg on.

[tannah]

The Holy SPirit is not inside until invited into the unholy and made clean. Jogg on.

Well which intergalactic train does it catch , and through which medium does it travel?

Why do you insist in believing this? Man is worth more than this. Man has the spirit within.

Does it make it more easy to kill babies if it's deemed they don't have the spirit? Or maybe that's what the crusaders thought when they went to Brazil.
Sure, bible and cross in hand, the natives don't have the holy spirit, so if they don't want the bible and the cross let's slaughter them.

What a stupid religion. But what a deceitful one too, actually leading people to believe something from outside has to save them in some way, and making it easier to murder non-believers.

Tell me about the morals of this. Sword in one hand and "love" in the other. A recipe for war.

[daseem]

Not a criticisms of your belief but I think this is where your theory falls over:

"I have an idea that for a long time there was only nothing, oblivion, darkness - and that eventually that darkness realized it was conscious, and began to contemplate. Eventually this light alchemically transmuted into a spark in the darkness - the "enlightnment" or illumination of the darkness with the first hint of understanding."

Out of nothing only nothing can come. Out of somethings, something may come. Also darkness is not a thing in itself, it is simply absence of something, namely light.

[miracles]

Well which intergalactic train does it catch , and through which medium does it travel?

Why do you insist in believing this? Man is worth more than this. Man has the spirit within.

Does it make it more easy to kill babies if it's deemed they don't have the spirit? Or maybe that's what the crusaders thought when they went to Brazil.
Sure, bible and cross in hand, the natives don't have the holy spirit, so if they don't want the bible and the cross let's slaughter them.

What a stupid religion. But what a deceitful one too, actually leading people to believe something from outside has to save them in some way, and making it easier to murder non-believers.

Tell me about the morals of this. Sword in one hand and "love" in the other. A recipe for war.

Your not a very fast jogger are you?

[tannah]

Your not a very fast jogger are you?

You're not big on answering questions much are you?

I'm not going to respect the wishes of those that tell me to respect their religion. It's over. You people that wish to identify with the Bible and the Quaran are simply blind and worship silly man-made images and perceptions of God. It's time the sleeper's awoke.

[miracles]

After the LORD your God has driven them out before you, do not say to yourself, "The LORD has brought me here to take possession of this land because of my righteousness." No, it is on account of the wickedness of these nations that the LORD is going to drive them out before you. It is not because of your righteousness or your integrity that you are going in to take possession of their land; but on account of the wickedness of these nations, the LORD your God will drive them out before you, to accomplish what he swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob” (Deuteronomy 9:4-5 (http://bible.logos.com/passage/niv/Deuteronomy%209.4-5), emphasis added).

“Anyone who does these things is detestable to the LORD, and because of these detestable practices the LORD your God will drive out those nations before you. You must be blameless before the LORD your God” (Deut 18:12-13 (http://bible.logos.com/passage/niv/Deut%2018.12-13), emphasis added).

"Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, because this is how the nations that I am going to drive out before you became defiled. Even the land was defiled; so I punished it for its sin, and the land vomited out its inhabitants" (Leviticus 18:24-25 (http://bible.logos.com/passage/niv/Leviticus%2018.24-25), emphasis added).


God is justified in wiping out evil cultures, and He will do it again. God is Just, therefor wiping out evil is not murder, nor is exceuting someone for murder AKA the death penalty.

You clearly have no understanding of the absolute depravity of the cultures God destroyed.

Im not big on arguing with people with a petty infantecible mind. Thats you under my heal

[tannah]

After the LORD your God has driven them out before you, do not say to yourself, "The LORD has brought me here to take possession of this land because of my righteousness." No, it is on account of the wickedness of these nations that the LORD is going to drive them out before you. It is not because of your righteousness or your integrity that you are going in to take possession of their land; but on account of the wickedness of these nations, the LORD your God will drive them out before you, to accomplish what he swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob” (Deuteronomy 9:4-5 (http://bible.logos.com/passage/niv/Deuteronomy%209.4-5), emphasis added).

“Anyone who does these things is detestable to the LORD, and because of these detestable practices the LORD your God will drive out those nations before you. You must be blameless before the LORD your God” (Deut 18:12-13 (http://bible.logos.com/passage/niv/Deut%2018.12-13), emphasis added).

"Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, because this is how the nations that I am going to drive out before you became defiled. Even the land was defiled; so I punished it for its sin, and the land vomited out its inhabitants" (Leviticus 18:24-25 (http://bible.logos.com/passage/niv/Leviticus%2018.24-25), emphasis added).





Wow, that sounds so Islam.



God is justified in wiping out evil cultures, and He will do it again. God is Just, therefor wiping out evil is not murder, nor is exceuting someone for murder AKA the death penalty.


Wiping out first borns is your idea of "just" right? Your God stinks like you do Miracles. Tre smelly.:D

You clearly have no understanding of the absolute depravity of the cultures God destroyed.


I do have a clearer understanding of your depravity, blind hearted one.


Im not big on arguing with people with a petty infantecible mind. Thats you under my heal


In your dreams fella. Your posts are the only evidence required that you are full of rubbish. It's your choice. Personally I could do with a bit more of a stimulating conversation, but if you want it at this level, I'll generously spare the time for you.

[miracles]

Wow, that sounds so Islam.






Wiping out first borns is your idea of "just" right? Your God stinks like you do Miracles. Tre smelly.:D




I do have a clearer understanding of your depravity, blind hearted one.





In your dreams fella. Your posts are the only evidence required that you are full of rubbish. It's your choice. Personally I could do with a bit more of a stimulating conversation, but if you want it at this level, I'll generously spare the time for you.
Wow that sounds and smells like shit. Oh its tannah again no wonder.

[tannah]

Wow that sounds and smells like shit. Oh its tannah again no wonder.

Wow, that sounds like another cop out answer....oh it's Miracles, no bloomin wonders there.:rolleyes:

[miracles]

Wow, that sounds like another cop out answer....oh it's Miracles, no bloomin wonders there.:rolleyes:
The last turd is yours. Go have a shower you smell.

[tannah]

The last turd is yours. Go have a shower you smell.

No I incest, don't wipe out my first born.

I can see how your God probably did it now, if you are anything to go by. Reasonable people would question, he'd lower the whole thing down to an insult match, and then use that to justify his killing the babies and mothers and livestock, plunder and do a "viking-like" dance at the end! Yeah, your god is very very just. He writes the history too, "well M'luds, they was evil and corrupt"

Don't bother with a shower Miracles, it don't take your kinda smell away.

[miracles]

No I incest, don't wipe out my first born.

I can see how your God probably did it now, if you are anything to go by. Reasonable people would question, he'd lower the whole thing down to an insult match, and then use that to justify his killing the babies and mothers and livestock, plunder and do a "viking-like" dance at the end! Yeah, your god is very very just. He writes the history too, "well M'luds, they was evil and corrupt"

Don't bother with a shower Miracles, it don't take your kinda smell away.

You incest? Oh dear. That explains a lot.

[themime]

Out of nothing only nothing can come.

Yet something comes out of "nothing" on a quantum level, provided that the something also has an anti-something.

Maybe our Universe invites such activity by its unbalanced nature.

[miracles]

Out of God, everything has come, out of nothing comes nothing.

The freakiest thing of all and the question no one can answer is, "Where did God come from IE who made God? That concept blows my tiny mind.

[fallensoul]

Everything indeed comes from darkness, every star, every living being, everything has a finite time span, everything will die and only darkness will remain. This is physics.

Those who turn to light will die out with it, in the very end.

Yet something comes out of "nothing" on a quantum level, provided that the something also has an anti-something.

This is true, those quantum strings/particles can pop in and out of existence and humans can not explain it yet. And no light has nothing to do with it.. light is made of these same particles, but they are not light.

[godgoo]

Let us wait for the long awaited evidence of fine tuning in the universe. I know that there is some evidence, which could stipulate that there may be some inclination of such tuning, but it is still work in progress. Until then we all have to proceed with the out of nothing scenario.

[fallensoul]

Let us wait for the long awaited evidence of fine tuning in the universe. I know that there is some evidence, which could stipulate that there may be some inclination of such tuning, but it is still work in progress. Until then we all have to proceed with the out of nothing scenario.

I concur.

[miracles]

Everything indeed comes from darkness, every star, every living being, everything has a finite time span, everything will die and only darkness will remain. This is physics.

.

In that case Physics is wrong.

[fallensoul]

Well miracles, I assume that you see God as the original light which will never die out, correct? But your only "evidence" is your faith and belief in it. Mine comes from objective observations of the known universe. Who to trust hmmmmmm... I say neither.

[miracles]

Well miracles, I assume that you see God as the original light which will never die out, correct? But your only "evidence" is your faith and belief in it. Mine comes from objective observations of the known universe. Who to trust hmmmmmm... I say neither.

No my statements here are quite logical, if Physics states that "everything" (which is kind of alot of stuff huh, right? IE Everything yeah, comes out of darkness/nothing, then, well, sorry me old mate, then physics, what ever that's supposed to mean, is full of absolute objective bollocks.

[fallensoul]

No my statements here are quite logical, if Physics states that "everything" (which is kind of alot fo stuff huh, right? Evreything yeah, comes out of darkness/nothing, then, well, sorry me old mate, then physics, what ever that's supposed to mean, is full of absolute objective bollocks.

You know, darkness does not equal nothingness, it just is absence of light. Take for example black holes, they are dark as the night invisible to the naked eye, but they are not empty so to speak, they are incredible condensed mass that has so big gravitational pull that even light cannot escape. But they are very daaaaark, still full of "something".

Singularity = something suggested as the beginning of universe would have possibly been absolutely dark place a unbelievably big center of mass, condensed from matter, that would have exploded and the pieaces and bits spread thorough the known universe. But it is only a theory, BUT it supports the premise that everything came from darkness (not nothingness)

[miracles]

You know, darkness does not equal nothingness, it just is absence of light. Take for example black holes, they are dark as the night invisible to the naked eye, but they are not empty so to speak, they are incredible condensed mass that has so big gravitational pull that even light cannot escape. But they are very daaaaark, still full of "something".

Singularity = something suggested as the beginning of universe would have possibly been absolutely dark place a unbelievably big center of mass, condensed from matter, that would have exploded and the pieaces and bits spread thorough the known universe. But it is only a theory, BUT it supports the premise that everything came from darkness (not nothingness)

Okay thanks for explaining that. At least its more plausible. Having said that, are you saying everything came out of a black hole? Because a lot of the known universe is already being swallowed up by a black whole.

[fallensoul]

That would make sense, if black hole just got massive enough it could not sustain itself and would prolly explode. And it would suck everything back in it again and repeat, like breathing on the universal scale.

Also this theory would support even Christianity, they say that behind the event horizon of black hole all known laws of the universe cease to exist and time itself stops. So if god is to be found in anywhere he could exist right there, and breath "life" into the world, thus creating it.

Thats how I would explain them both without them being mutually inexclusive.

But you can imagine the people who wrote genesis weren't quite as advanced, hence they would have painted the story differently, thus we have the highly symbolical genesis?

Also if god indeed did reside behind the event horizon of a blackhole he would be the only light in the darkness so to speak :D
It is all ofcourse theory, but I find it intriguing.

[godgoo]

Singularity = something suggested as the beginning of universe would have possibly been absolutely dark place a unbelievably big center of mass, condensed from matter, that would have exploded and the pieaces and bits spread thorough the known universe. But it is only a theory, BUT it supports the premise that everything came from darkness (not nothingness) The one singularity (Big Bang theory) is going to get busted, when we have to decide just how every singularity came out of one? Matter didn't snowball throughout the universe it isn't possible. Matter materialized into the known universe from an infinite number of singularities. which started the Big Bang chain reaction.

[fallensoul]

The one singularity (Big Bang theory) is going to get busted, when we have to decide just how every singularity came out of one? Matter didn't snowball throughout the universe it isn't possible. Matter materialized into the known universe from an infinite number of singularities. which started the Big Bang chain reaction.

Could be, maybe we will find out in our lifetimes.

[miracles]

That would make sense, if black hole just got massive enough it could not sustain itself and would prolly explode. And it would suck everything back in it again and repeat, like breathing on the universal scale.

Also this theory would support even Christianity, they say that behind the event horizon of black hole all known laws of the universe cease to exist and time itself stops. So if god is to be found in anywhere he could exist right there, and breath "life" into the world, thus creating it.

Thats how I would explain them both without them being mutually inexclusive.

But you can imagine the people who wrote genesis weren't quite as advanced, hence they would have painted the story differently, thus we have the highly symbolical genesis?

Also if god indeed did reside behind the event horizon of a blackhole he would be the only light in the darkness so to speak :D
It is all ofcourse theory, but I find it intriguing.

Some Christian scientist reckon at least one 10th of a percent of the known universe is already lost in a black hole. No doubt it's a mind boggling topic.

[michael christopher]

Alright, here are my views on Christianity - not what I have made public, but what I believe the message and communication actually was.

I usually don't post about stuff like this because a lot of it's speculation, but this thread is about what I have come to believe so why not.

I do believe there is a God, and I do believe he has certain "chosen" people, but the stipulation is that these chosen people choose themselves. God gives everyone the calling and yet only few choose to heed it. Those with the knowledge and strength and willpower to heed that calling are his chosen people. It is not a matter of race or culture or social ideas - all of these things become moot with the truth of God. The truth of God is simple: God is the force of love. All things away from God are only facets of his love, but not the whole thing, and thus corrupt. We are in the corrupt area of existence. Yet in our DNA lies this knowledge, if we choose to utilize it instead of trying to erase it. I don't believe Jesus was real. The evidence is stacked so high against it that it would be absurd for me to think otherwise, and that aside, why should I believe someone rose from the dead? Just listening to the "followers" of Christianity (they don't even obey it that well) bleat on and on this board with their petty insults and bullshit, including in this thread that is NOT ABOUT THEM, makes me want to puke. You people are real demons. You act like demons, you think like demons.

We are in hell right now, and you are our stewards, and instead of using physical torture - at least in our case here in the Western world (for the most part), you torture us psychologically and emotionally. Yes, you are real human beings, and there are facets of you that want out of your self-imposed exile in hell. We are here with you because of things we have done to put us here, we are "fallen" in that sense as I mentioned in my first post. The difference is we're sick of you and the demons you let control you. These demons are inherent within all of us, what I called "undersouls" earlier - 2D and 1D entities that control base urges and desires that only wish to be fulfilled. Demons desire conquest, domination, obedience, violence, and repression.

Christians, Muslims, Jews, what do you truly desire?

I think you need to ask yourselves that question.

The other religions are all corrupt as well, including the New Age religions. The truth is inherent and in self, and it's not supposed to be a group thing because everyone possesses the knowledge of the heavens, if they only listen instead of fighting it. Demons are those things which you refuse to face and transmute from lead to gold.

[fallensoul]

Excellent post as always Michael Christopher :)

[stfd]

it is fair (even in the great scheme of things) for one being created free , to freely think and feel.
It's just how we were made.

like i said before MC ... i so very much STRONGLY and vehemently disagree with that which you believe but while that is so , i also think you can believe whatever you want.

Ultimatelly is one's self who is at stake.

[daseem]

Yet something comes out of "nothing" on a quantum level, provided that the something also has an anti-something.

Maybe our Universe invites such activity by its unbalanced nature.

Sorry, something cannot come out of nothing, physically, field quantum level or not. Quantum models of universe do not imply something has come out of "nothing". In quantum physics matter does not get created or become in existence when there is nothing there, it becomes matter from ambient energy briefly and goes back to being energy. There is at no point a condition of existence of something from nothing.

[daseem]

Everything indeed comes from darkness, every star, every living being, everything has a finite time span, everything will die and only darkness will remain. This is physics.

Those who turn to light will die out with it, in the very end.



This is true, those quantum strings/particles can pop in and out of existence and humans can not explain it yet. And no light has nothing to do with it.. light is made of these same particles, but they are not light.

yes they can pop in to existence and quickly pop out and science's inability to explain it is why you cannot claim something from nothing as that 'something' which is being referred to as 'nothing is beyond the explanation of quantum physics.

[fallensoul]

yes they can pop in to existence and quickly pop out and science's inability to explain it is why you cannot claim something from nothing as that 'something' which is being referred to as 'nothing is beyond the explanation of quantum physics.

Well if you put it that way then yes, something does not come out from nothing. But it comes from somewhere that we yet can not implore further. So it essentially is equivalent of nothing in our eyes. I wish we could one day find out the truth.

[tannah]

Well if you put it that way then yes, something does not come out from nothing. But it comes from somewhere that we yet can not implore further. So it essentially is equivalent of nothing in our eyes. I wish we could one day find out the truth.

If it is nothing with regards to time and space, and the structure of the universe which is held in manifestation by the nature of the photon, we could ask if it is still something existing beyond time and space and its structure.

I think the clue is in what is termed as Non-Locality, instant action at a distance. There was a science article recently that stated non-locality had been observed in the macro world, and was no longer a phenomenon of the quantum world.

But non-locality is implying that a communication exists between things beyond the structure of time and space. Things take time to travel from one object to another. Yet non-locality is about an instant communication between atoms and sub-atomic material. This is implying that there is some unseen medium beyond time and space, and that all non-locality means is that there is an aspect to the nature of all things that can pop outside the universal structure to instantly communicate. There will never be a nothing.
If atoms have a non-local aspect, then our minds have that aspect built in,
and this may be the secret to such things as communicating spiritually, telepathically or whatever.

[themime]

Sorry, something cannot come out of nothing, physically, field quantum level or not. Quantum models of universe do not imply something has come out of "nothing". In quantum physics matter does not get created or become in existence when there is nothing there, it becomes matter from ambient energy briefly and goes back to being energy. There is at no point a condition of existence of something from nothing.

Sorry I may have been a bit vague on my use of question marks around the word "nothing" to denote that the term is relative when applied to the vacuum.

Also are there no circumstances where the the + -virtual particles will not cancel each other out?

[miracles]

Alright, here are my views on Christianity - not what I have made public, but what I believe the message and communication actually was.

I usually don't post about stuff like this because a lot of it's speculation, but this thread is about what I have come to believe so why not.

I do believe there is a God, and I do believe he has certain "chosen" people, but the stipulation is that these chosen people choose themselves. God gives everyone the calling and yet only few choose to heed it. Those with the knowledge and strength and willpower to heed that calling are his chosen people. It is not a matter of race or culture or social ideas - all of these things become moot with the truth of God. The truth of God is simple: God is the force of love. All things away from God are only facets of his love, but not the whole thing, and thus corrupt. We are in the corrupt area of existence. Yet in our DNA lies this knowledge, if we choose to utilize it instead of trying to erase it. I don't believe Jesus was real. The evidence is stacked so high against it that it would be absurd for me to think otherwise, and that aside, why should I believe someone rose from the dead? Just listening to the "followers" of Christianity (they don't even obey it that well) bleat on and on this board with their petty insults and bullshit, including in this thread that is NOT ABOUT THEM, makes me want to puke. You people are real demons. You act like demons, you think like demons.

We are in hell right now, and you are our stewards, and instead of using physical torture - at least in our case here in the Western world (for the most part), you torture us psychologically and emotionally. Yes, you are real human beings, and there are facets of you that want out of your self-imposed exile in hell. We are here with you because of things we have done to put us here, we are "fallen" in that sense as I mentioned in my first post. The difference is we're sick of you and the demons you let control you. These demons are inherent within all of us, what I called "undersouls" earlier - 2D and 1D entities that control base urges and desires that only wish to be fulfilled. Demons desire conquest, domination, obedience, violence, and repression.

Christians, Muslims, Jews, what do you truly desire?

I think you need to ask yourselves that question.

The other religions are all corrupt as well, including the New Age religions. The truth is inherent and in self, and it's not supposed to be a group thing because everyone possesses the knowledge of the heavens, if they only listen instead of fighting it. Demons are those things which you refuse to face and transmute from lead to gold.

Yes so excellent, youve got onto the ignore list. DEMON. Your the king of insults.

[tannah]

Yes so excellent, youve got onto the ignore list. DEMON. Your the king of insults.

Nothing compares to U Miracles. I've not met online a more sinister creep who doesn't attempt to answer questions, but just resorts to sarcastic and underhand jibes. You're the king of division, with your eternal heaven and eternal hell BS.

[miracles]

Your on ignore to Tann ah ha ha. Hows the serenity? Not a sound!

[miracles]

The nature of things is that religious discusion definately causes division. I have removed myself from the debate and placed the usual supsects on ignore, if I have anything of value to share down the track, I may post a thread topic. In future if I dont have anything nice to say, I wont say anything at all.

Good luck people, and may the God of your misunderstanding bless you. :)

Miracles.

[daseem]

Sorry I may have been a bit vague on my use of question marks around the word "nothing" to denote that the term is relative when applied to the vacuum.

Also are there no circumstances where the the + -virtual particles will not cancel each other out?

sorry I must have missed the question mark around 'nothing', and essentially the definition of which is at question here. A quantum mechanical vacuum is not like a normal vacuum which is essentially 'nothing'. A QMV on the other hand is like a sea of particles forming and dying which borrow energy from the vacuum itself for their short-ass lives. This is not 'nothing' in the traditional sense and thus material particles cannot come into being out of nothing.

On virtual particles yes from what I understand of the theory they do cancel each other out in a a time too short to be observable and also that they can become real particles if driven away from each other if an external force is applied..which leads us to think that there is probably no true vaccum but spacetime fabric. The theory starts getting a bit hairy for my limited intellect to be honest especially when you start considering that virtual articles do not really exist hence virtual and the ambient energy in a vacuum is interacting with real particles in a such a way as though it was made of virtual particles.

[tannah]

Your on ignore to Tann ah ha ha. Hows the serenity? Not a sound!

Happy chatting with your couple of buds then Mire-clueless.:D

He came in with his Panin
And got a right ol panning.:p

[michael christopher]

BTW, there's only so much of being told you're going to burn in hell for all eternity that one can take before resorting to insults about the intelligence of the hell-pusher. And naturally so, I might add.

Being called a Satanist amongst other idiotic things is just as bad as my pointing out how stupid you act, miracles. Constantly you claim that I am some kind of Satanism pusher, you and your dumb little marauder buddies, in spite of the fact that you provide no evidence against me whatsoever except your own slander.

You people make yourselves look like idiots, I'm just pointing out the obvious.

[fallensoul]

But non-locality is implying that a communication exists between things beyond the structure of time and space. Things take time to travel from one object to another. Yet non-locality is about an instant communication between atoms and sub-atomic material.

I heard this while reading about Quantum Physics but never really understood its meaning. This thread and you guys have further expanded my understanding around this subject.

Fascinating stuff.

This "nothing" could be source of infinite energy, like zero point energy?

[themime]

On virtual particles yes from what I understand of the theory they do cancel each other out in a a time too short to be observable and also that they can become real particles if driven away from each other if an external force is applied..which leads us to think that there is probably no true vaccum but spacetime fabric. The theory starts getting a bit hairy for my limited intellect to be honest especially when you start considering that virtual articles do not really exist hence virtual and the ambient energy in a vacuum is interacting with real particles in a such a way as though it was made of virtual particles.


You should take a look at some of Hawking Radiation stuff available on line. Makes for interesting reading about how Virtual Particles may be the cause of decreases in Black Hole mass and why they may not be "Black"(sorry for the question marks again) after all.

:)

[daseem]

You should take a look at some of Hawking Radiation stuff available on line. Makes for interesting reading about how Virtual Particles may be the cause of decreases in Black Hole mass and why they may not be "Black"(sorry for the question marks again) after all.

:)

I started looking it up. Thanks.

http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/BlackHoles/hawking.html


Made a start here: Will have to see if I can find out more on it but I kind of had a problem where it states: "Virtual particle pairs are constantly being created near the horizon of the black hole, as they are everywhere. Normally, they are created as a particle-antiparticle pair and they quickly annihilate each other. But near the horizon of a black hole, it's possible for one to fall in before the annihilation can happen, in which case the other one escapes as Hawking radiation. "

Big suppositions for something that does'nt actually exist :P

I have an issue with the "created" part as the way I understood it is that virtual particles are physicist talk for quantum probabilities in a Feynman diagram and such are only calculations at the intermediate stages of the diagram whereas people and some internet sites talk about them as though they exist and are there.

Either way it's fascinating I think.

p.s Hawking has been less than straightforward before as well when he theorises on alternative universe models.

[michael christopher]

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1231854&posted=1#post1231854

The above thread is kind of the continuation of this thread.