Protocols of Zion... false or authentic?

[flyermay]

I've started to read "the Protocols of the Elders of Zion”, which supposedly describes a Jewish and Masonic plot for world domination.

The book is said to be a forgery and a hoax, as well as plagiarising previous books. However I noticed that it describes pretty well what is going on in the world today; even though it was supposedly written in 1984, or between 1895 and 1902, according to “official” researchers.

So, if the book is a simple forgery or hoax, and has nothing to do with those in power -or seeking to gain power-, why is it so accurate?

What do you make of this book?

[krakhead]

Well fuck me sideways! :eek: I was going to make a similar thread myself this evening. Maybe we've both been spurred by recent, repeated mentions of the protocols on here?

I have been looking into the claim that it had been proved to be a forgery, yet all I seem to be ale to find (albeit a small search around on a very slow work internet connection earlier today) are statements that it has been refuted, but no real evidence offered as to how.

If someone who really believes it has been proved to be a forgery can point me towards the evidnece for this, I would be most grateful :)

[rosix]

I have thought about this but in the end have thought that it doesn't actually even matter whether or not this one specific document is authentic.

[krakhead]

I have thought about this but in the end have thought that it doesn't actually even matter whether or not this one specific document is authentic.

Why do you think that?

[flyermay]

Well fuck me sideways! :eek: I was going to make a similar thread myself this evening. Maybe we've both been spurred by recent, repeated mentions of the protocols on here?

I have been looking into the claim that it had been proved to be a forgery, yet all I seem to be ale to find (albeit a small search around on a very slow work internet connection earlier today) are statements that it has been refuted, but no real evidence offered as to how.

If someone who really believes it has been proved to be a forgery can point me towards the evidnece for this, I would be most grateful :)

lol

Sorry for posting before you, just reached the chapter on Bill Cooper's book about the Protocols, and been all day thinking: "this simply describes what's going on; how did they know... if they are not moving the strings?"

I've located a couple of documentaries that I'm going to watch this night, but I'm interested in hearing opinions from both sides here (especially those coming from the masons -which I guess would be in favour of the hoax theory-).

[keystone]

One pretty good clue is that the guy who wrote it admitted it was a hoax. I'll dig out the details for you later.

Cheers

[flyermay]

I have thought about this but in the end have thought that it doesn't actually even matter whether or not this one specific document is authentic.

Well... given the resemblance between what it has been written and what is going on; I would be really interested in knowing if it's more than just a coincidence.

[flyermay]

One pretty good clue is that the guy who wrote it admitted it was a hoax. I'll dig out the details for you later.

Cheers

Yes, it seems that a Russian journalist (Matvei Golovinski) wrote it. In the 1930s two witnesses testified the involvement of Pyotr Ivanovich Rachkovsky in the forgery. But... witnesses also lie, they can be payed to lie, or even forced to sign false confessions.

It's said to be a synthesis from two previous books: Joly's book and Biarritz. But the point is: why did Golovinski knew what was going to happen 100 years later?

[keystone]

Well... given the resemblance between what it has been written and what is going on; I would be really interested in knowing if it's more than just a coincidence.That is a very good point indeed. However, its very easy to turn fiction into reality using the fiction as a template but thats probably a different thread. This one is about was the original document a hoax. I'll dig out the evidence including the "confession" by the author when I have a little time later on.

Cheers

[nihil]

why did Golovinski knew what was going to happen 100 years later?



Maybe he got the best informants ?

[lizzy]

Well fuck me sideways! :eek: I was going to make a similar thread myself this evening. :)

:D....LOL.....krakkers , on that giggle , need a break.....please ban me if I post before one month.....;)

[flyermay]

That is a very good point indeed. However, its very easy to turn fiction into reality using the fiction as a template but thats probably a different thread. This one is about was the original document a hoax. I'll dig out the evidence including the "confession" by the author when I have a little time later on.

Cheers

Yes, you're right; I might have mis-titled the thread. I’m more interested in knowing why those protocols seem to be followed nowadays by the PTB (regardless of the fact if the book is a forgery/hoax/plagiarism or not).

[flyermay]

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

[1977]

This is the sort of passage that raises a lot of questions: http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/przion2.htm#PROTOCOL%20No.%201

6. The people, under our guidance, have annihilated the aristocracy, who were their one and only defense and foster-mother for the sake of their own advantage which is inseparably bound up with the well-being of the people. Nowadays, with the destruction of the aristocracy, the people have fallen into the grips of merciless money-grinding scoundrels who have laid a pitiless and cruel yoke upon the necks of the workers.

7. We appear on the scene as alleged saviours of the worker from this oppression when we propose to him to enter the ranks of our fighting forces - Socialists, Anarchists, Communists - to whom we always give support in accordance with an alleged brotherly rule (of the solidarity of all humanity) of our SOCIAL MASONRY. The aristocracy, which enjoyed by law the labor of the workers, was interested in seeing that the workers were well fed, healthy, and strong. We are interested in just the opposite - in the diminution, the KILLING OUT OF THE GOYIM.
If this was authentic, why would they go out of their way to extol the virtues of the aristocracy? Why would they possibly call themselves (?) "merciless money-grinding scoundrels"?

It doesn't make any sense. There are many more examples of this, where the Protocols declare how wonderful and beneficial some social institution is before plotting how they will destroy it.

Why was Freemason Henry Ford so eager to distribute the Protocols when it implies that Freemasonry is part of the Jewish conspiracy?

[keystone]

1977 I think you would be wrong to automatically associate the term SOCIAL MASONRY with freemasonry. I would suggest that the term is better interpreted as social fabric = fabric of the building = the masonry from which it is constructed.

Cheers

[1977]

1977 I think you would be wrong to automatically associate the term SOCIAL MASONRY with freemasonry. I would suggest that the term is better interpreted as social fabric = fabric of the building = the masonry from which it is constructed.

I do not assume anything.

Protocol 4
(http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/secretsoc_20century/secretsoc_20century02.htm#CHAPTER%205)Gentile masonry blindly serves as a screen for us and our objects, but the plan of action of our force, even its very abiding place, remains for the whole people and unknown mystery.
Protocol 11
It is this which has served as the basis for our organization of SECRET MASONRY WHICH IS NOT KNOWN TO, AND AIMS WHICH ARE NOT EVEN SO MUCH AS SUSPECTED BY, THESE GOY CATTLE, ATTRACTED BY US INTO THE “SHOW” ARMY OF MASONIC LODGES IN ORDER TO THROW DUST IN THE EYES OF THEIR FELLOWS.

Protocol 15
Every kind of new institution of anything like a secret society will also be punished with death; those of them which are now in existence, are known to us, serve us and have served us, we shall disband and send into exile to continents far removed from Europe. In this way we shall proceed with those goy Masons who know too much; such of these as we may for some reason spare will be kept in constant fear of exile. We shall promulgate a law making all former members of secret societies liable to exile from Europe as the center of our rule. Resolutions of our government will be final, without appeal. . . .

Meantime, however, until we come into our kingdom, we shall act in the contrary way; we shall create and multiply free Masonic lodges in all the countries of the world, absorb into them all who may become or who are prominent in public activity, for in these lodges we shall find our principle intelligence office and means of influence. All these lodges we shall bring under one central administration, known to us alone and to all others absolutely unknown, which will be composed of our learned elders. . . .

It is natural that we and no other should lead Masonic activities, for we know whither we are leading; we know the final goal of every form of activity where as the goyim have knowledge of nothing, not even of the immediate effect of action . . .

[flyermay]

This is the sort of passage that raises a lot of questions: http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/przion2.htm#PROTOCOL%20No.%201

6. The people, under our guidance, have annihilated the aristocracy, who were their one and only defense and foster-mother for the sake of their own advantage which is inseparably bound up with the well-being of the people. Nowadays, with the destruction of the aristocracy, the people have fallen into the grips of merciless money-grinding scoundrels who have laid a pitiless and cruel yoke upon the necks of the workers.

7. We appear on the scene as alleged saviours of the worker from this oppression when we propose to him to enter the ranks of our fighting forces - Socialists, Anarchists, Communists - to whom we always give support in accordance with an alleged brotherly rule (of the solidarity of all humanity) of our SOCIAL MASONRY. The aristocracy, which enjoyed by law the labor of the workers, was interested in seeing that the workers were well fed, healthy, and strong. We are interested in just the opposite - in the diminution, the KILLING OUT OF THE GOYIM.

If this was authentic, why would they go out of their way to extol the virtues of the aristocracy? Why would they possibly call themselves (?) "merciless money-grinding scoundrels"?

I think that "merciless money-grinding scoundrels" does not refer to themselves, but rather to those "under their guidance" or those who have replaced the aristocracy.

It doesn't make any sense. There are many more examples of this, where the Protocols declare how wonderful and beneficial some social institution is before plotting how they will destroy it.

As I understand it, the purpose of the plot is to gain control of all institutions, even if they have to corrupt or destroy them first. And then: beneficial for whom, for them or for the “goyim”?


Why was Freemason Henry Ford so eager to distribute the Protocols when it implies that Freemasonry is part of the Jewish conspiracy?

I’m not sure why, I just started looking into this whole subject. But if you ask me to guess, I would say that it is to distribute the protocols among those who should follow them. Please take into account that the protocols had been already discarded as a forgery and a hoax in Europe before Ford distributed them.

[nihil]

This example of Pseudobiblia is used to link Zionism with the Illuminati.

William Guy Carr (1895-1959) claimed they "are the Long rang Plan of
the Illuminati which was explained by Amschel Rothschild to his
associates in Frankfurt, Germany, in 1773."

See: Pawns In The Game. St. George Press, P. 157

Between August and November of 2002, the New Jersey based
Arabic-language newspaper 'The Arab Voice' published excerpts from the
Protocols . In justification, editor and publisher, Walid Rabah, noted
that "some major writers in the Arab nation accept the truth of the
book."

Milton William Cooper, best known as the author of Behold a Pale Horse
(1991), published the complete text of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion,
claiming that "any reference to 'Jews' should be replaced with the word
'Illuminati' .

[flyermay]

This example of Pseudobiblia is used to link Zionism with the Illuminati.

William Guy Carr (1895-1959) claimed they "are the Long rang Plan of
the Illuminati which was explained by Amschel Rothschild to his
associates in Frankfurt, Germany, in 1773."

See: Pawns In The Game. St. George Press, P. 157

Between August and November of 2002, the New Jersey based
Arabic-language newspaper 'The Arab Voice' published excerpts from the
Protocols . In justification, editor and publisher, Walid Rabah, noted
that "some major writers in the Arab nation accept the truth of the
book."

Milton William Cooper, best known as the author of Behold a Pale Horse
(1991), published the complete text of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion,
claiming that "any reference to 'Jews' should be replaced with the word
'Illuminati' .

It makes a lot of sense to link the Rothschilds and the illuminati to the protocols, rather than generalising by saying the Jewish.

[nihil]

Bill Cooper did so much sense that he was killed by SWAT .

[kblood]

There is a somewhat similar document with plans for the future that seems to have come to pass. An author stepped out claiming it to be his work and a hoax. Still it seems to be very spot on and the claim it is a hoax is still in question, although many just point to the evidence that it was a hoax and proclaim that it was proven to be so long ago.

Im refering to the Report from Iron Mountain:

The Report from Iron Mountain - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Makes you wonder when they twice have disproven such documents this way, even though they seem to be exactly what has come to pass during these last decades.

[nihil]

It is known that some news are given freely, as books, under the disguise of novels .
As 'Majestic' by Whitley Strieber, a novel based on the so-called Roswell incident .

[nihil]

... just who's the one that admits that Report from Iron Mountain best-seller is all true ?
A Ken Galbraith from Harvard. So here's some of Galbraith's ideas:

Galbraith's main ideas focused around the influence of the market-power of large corporations.

He believed that this market-power weakened the widely-accepted principle of consumer sovereignty,
allowing corporations to be price makers, rather than price takers. [Wikipedia]

[opulentview]

Someone wrote the piece and whoever did had good understanding of how to control society.

[flyermay]

About Ford and the Protocols, I found a quote from the 17th February 1921. In it, Henry Ford says:
"The only statement I care to make about the PROTOCOLS is that they fit in with what is going on. They are sixteen years old, and they have fitted the world situation up to this time. THEY FIT IT NOW." (New York World)

And they still fit now in 2009!

I also found out that during the Kerensky regime, all Russian copies of the book were destroyed, and anyone found with the book would be shot on site (Protocols of the learned elders of Zion, trans. by V.E. Marsden)

[nihil]

The Russian 'Veto' fits well if we consider the Communist Revolution a Social Experiment supported by The Rothschilds - the complete erasure of The Romanov Family, the Atheist imprimatur of the Red Russian Regime .

It All Fits . A stunning example of mere coincidences ??

[flyermay]

The Russian 'Veto' fits well if we consider the Communist Revolution a Social Experiment supported by The Rothschilds - the complete erasure of The Romanov Family, the Atheist imprimatur of the Red Russian Regime .

It All Fits . A stunning example of mere coincidences ??

Yes, it does fit.

However, I have some doubts about it, as the protocols were used as anti-revolutionary propaganda in Russia, by changing the "Jews" for "Bolsheviks", and this might be main cuase for the ban.

Actually, previous to Ford's distribution, all copies in Europe just mentioned the Bolsheviks and not the Jews.

I've also been looking into the origins, and found that the protocols are allegedly a plagiarism of a plagiarism of a plagiarism (which looks to me as quite suspicious). The original seems to be "Les Mystères du peuple" by Eugène Sue, which was plagiarised by Maurice Joly in his "Dialogue in Hell Between Machiavelli and Montesquieu", then "Biarritz" by Sir John Retcliffe, and then came "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" by Matvei Golovinski.

Quite a long and complicated story...

[flyermay]

And here is the other side of the story -far shorter-

Professor Sergius Nilus who published them [the Protocols] in Russia was described by the London "Times" as a minor official in the Russian Foreign Office. He wrote a book entitled "The Great in Little" and in a second edition of this book in 1905 he printed the Protocols, saying they had come from a friend since deceased, with the assurance that they were a true translation of documents stolen by a woman FROM A HIGHLY INITIATED JEWISH FREEMASON in France.

[flyermay]

It also seems that the Berne was a complete farce; but even then, all the media were quite eager in publishing the results against the authenticity of the book.

They were not so eager to publish that the verdict was reversed by the Berne Court of Appeal on November 1 last. (source: http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/examiner.htm)

[kblood]

Yes, it does fit.

However, I have some doubts about it, as the protocols were used as anti-revolutionary propaganda in Russia, by changing the "Jews" for "Bolsheviks", and this might be main cuase for the ban.

Actually, previous to Ford's distribution, all copies in English just mentioned the Bolsheviks and not the Jews.

I've also been looking into the origins, and found that the protocols are allegedly a plagiarism of a plagiarism of a plagiarism (which looks to me as quite suspicious). The original seems to be "Les Mystères du peuple" by Eugène Sue, which was plagiarised by Maurice Joly in his "Dialogue in Hell Between Machiavelli and Montesquieu", then "Biarritz" by Sir John Retcliffe, and then came "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" by Matvei Golovinski.

Quite a long and complicated story...

Now that certainly is interesting. The original of course cant have been in english. Wouldnt make sense if it was to be of jewish origin, they might find the language usefull, but not if its meant to be creating a secret world order. After it had been rewritten, damage control would be needed. Like changing who was really behind it, whoever it was.

It could of course be good writers who struck something that just is true about how the world is controlled, a bit like horoscopes. Or it just inspired some people in power. Whichever the case they arent meaningless at all. The truth just seem far more likely to be that they werent just an accident, that it wasnt just concidence that they fit so well.

It seems obvious that many truths are hidden in fiction, and these are great examples, even though these might be closer to the truth than most fiction. At least the truth of the Illuminati, the elite or whatever the ones in power can be called. Controlling the world through manipulation rather than being truthfull and direct about all intentions.

[flyermay]

My mistake, Ford printed the first version in English, and restated the "Jews" instead of the "Bolsheviks". What I meant was that all the copies around Europe (before Ford's English version) were attributed to the Bolsheviks instead of the Jews.

Now that certainly is interesting. The original of course cant have been in english. Wouldnt make sense if it was to be of jewish origin, they might find the language usefull, but not if its meant to be creating a secret world order. After it had been rewritten, damage control would be needed. Like changing who was really behind it, whoever it was.

The original had to be French, either if it is false or authentic. The attributed books from where it was supposedly plagiarised were French. And also the supposed author (in case it is authentic) was a Jew Freemason from France.

It could of course be good writers who struck something that just is true about how the world is controlled, a bit like horoscopes. Or it just inspired some people in power. Whichever the case they arent meaningless at all. The truth just seem far more likely to be that they werent just an accident, that it wasnt just concidence that they fit so well.

I completely agree with you there!

Even if it the master plan is being followed by the authors, or if the plan has been adopted by other leads to the same result: World Domination.

It seems obvious that many truths are hidden in fiction, and these are great examples, even though these might be closer to the truth than most fiction. At least the truth of the Illuminati, the elite or whatever the ones in power can be called. Controlling the world through manipulation rather than being truthfull and direct about all intentions.

The first thought I had when I started reading the book were the many examples of symbolism and clues in everyday life that are completely hidden for the average person, but obvious for the initiated and conspiracy theorists. I think this book is also one of those examples, you just see it as fiction unless you are aware of how the world is really controlled.

[kblood]

My mistake, Ford printed the first version in English, and restated the "Jews" instead of the "Bolsheviks". What I meant was that all the copies around Europe (before Ford's English version) were attributed to the Bolsheviks instead of the Jews.

Who are the "Bolsheviks"? And do you have any sources to any originals?

And you editted your post :) Thanks for the reply. If it was originally in french, it seems to point to the jesuits? As far as I know they seem to have alot of origins in and around France?

[flyermay]

Who are the "Bolsheviks"? And do you have any sources to any originals?

The Bolsheviks were a faction of the Marxist Russian Social Democratic Labour Party during the Russian revolution, they were included in the Protocols by the Tsarist secret service instead of the Jews.

The only copy that exists of that version (as far as I read) is in the British Museum, by Professor Sergius Nilus in 1905, and bears the Museum's date stamp of receipt of August 10, 1906.

[flyermay]

Who are the "Bolsheviks"? And do you have any sources to any originals?

And you editted your post :) Thanks for the reply. If it was originally in french, it seems to point to the jesuits? As far as I know they seem to have alot of origins in and around France?

As well as the Freemason, to whom the book is attributed by the first publisher.

[1977]

About Ford and the Protocols, I found a quote from the 17th February 1921. In it, Henry Ford says:
"The only statement I care to make about the PROTOCOLS is that they fit in with what is going on. They are sixteen years old, and they have fitted the world situation up to this time. THEY FIT IT NOW." (New York World)
Ford considered the Jews to be a destructive, or Setian, force in opposition to the Anglo-Saxon (Masonic?) "Builders". Perhaps he considered Anglo-American Masonry to be distinct from French Grand Orient Masonry.

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/ij_ch2.htm

Let the students know that their choice is between the Anglo-Saxons and the Tribe of Judah. Let the students decide, in making up their allegiance, whether they will follow the Builders or those who seek to tear down. It is not a case for argument. The only absolute antidote to the Jewish influence is to call college students back to a pride of race.

We often speak of the Fathers as if they were the few who happened to affix their signatures to a great document which marked a new era of liberty. The Fathers of our nation were the men of the Anglo-Saxon-Celtic race. The men who came from Europe with civilization in their blood and in their destiny. The men who crossed the Atlantic and set up civilization on a bleak and rock-bound coast; the men who drove north to Alaska and west to California; the men who opened up the tropics and subdued the arctics; the men who mastered the African veldt; the men who peopled Australia and seized the gates of the world at Suez, Gibraltar and Panama; men who have given form to every government and a livelihood to every people and an ideal to every century. They got neither their God nor their religion from Judah, nor yet their speech nor their creative genius -- they are the Ruling People. Chosen throughout the centuries to Master the world, by building it ever better and better, and not by breaking it down.

"Neither their God nor their religion from Judah"—then from where? "Chosen throughout the centuries to Master the world"—by whom?

Incidentally, Plutarch's story of Isis and Osiris, Osiris is betrayed by Typhon, who was identified in ancient times with Yahweh, the god of the Jews. And in the Christian narrative, we find Jesus betrayed by Judas, or simply "the Jew".

[esowteric]

I've started to read "the Protocols of the Elders of Zion”, which supposedly describes a Jewish and Masonic plot for world domination. What do you make of this book?

Well, according to the references in this The Protocols of the Elders of Zion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, it's an anti-semitic fraud.

With good wishes,
Esowteric.

[flyermay]

And here is the other side of the story:

Professor Sergius Nilus who published them [the Protocols] in Russia was described by the London "Times" as a minor official in the Russian Foreign Office. He wrote a book entitled "The Great in Little" and in a second edition of this book in 1905 he printed the Protocols, saying they had come from a friend since deceased, with the assurance that they were a true translation of documents stolen by a woman FROM A HIGHLY INITIATED JEWISH FREEMASON in France.

[flyermay]

And as someone pointed out in another thread, the theory of the supposed forgery is based on a plagiarism from Maurice Joly's "Dialogue in hell..." whom was a Jew anyway.

[nihil]

...allegedly a plagiarism of a plagiarism of a plagiarism...
(this implies that there should be a source somewhere).

A quick search gives the reader a path, from Popular Novelists, to Masons, to Political Refugees,
to Occult Nazi Supporters :

"Les Mystères du peuple"

The Imperial Government promptly banned the publication of the complete work.
Joseph Marie Eugène Sue (January 20, 1804–August 3, 1857), French novelist, was born in Paris. Eugène Sue was strongly affected by the Socialist ideas of the day.

"Dialogue in Hell Between Machiavelli and Montesquieu"

by Maurice Joly was a veiled Masonic Jewish attack on Napoleon III, an example of how they supported liberalism to undermine the Old Order and usurp power. Joly, whose real name was Joseph Levy, was a lifelong Mason and member of the "Lodge of Mizraim".
Joly, who committed suicide in 1879, was in the habit of "borrowing." He is accused of plagiarizing a popular novel by Eugene Sue, namely "Les Mystères du Paris." (1845)
.

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/3998/bannersdf.gif
http://www.retcliffe.de/

"Biarritz"

by Sir John Retcliffe, a German bureaucrat whise real name was Hermann Goedesche, believed in a conspiracy between Jews and Masons to dominate the world. One chapter of the novel, titled "In the Jewish Cemetery in Prague" relates a speech by a Rabbi named Eichhorn, or Reichhorn, which reveals a Jewish plot against European civilization.

"The Protocols of the Elders of Zion"

by Matvei Vasilyevich Golovinski (alternatively Mathieu; Russian: Матвей Васильевич Головинский; 1865-1920), a Russian-French writer and journalist that drifted into a life of espionage and propaganda work. After working for the czarist secret service, he later changed sides and joined the Bolsheviks

The Protocols reached Germany sometime around 1918. One of those who brought them to Germany was Alfred Rosenberg, an Estonian of German heritage who first encountered the Protocols when a student in Moscow.
In Germany Rosenberg soon became involved with a mystical group that was a precursor to National Socialism known as the Thule Society where he frequently lectured about the Protocols. Rosenberg was there to explain the mysteries of the Protocols when Adolf Hitler appeared on the stage of right-wing politics in 1921. Rosenberg was at Hitler's side during the attempted putsch in Munich in 1923. The Protocols were the basis for much of Mein Kampf, and Rosenberg's book The Myth of the 20th Century became the most important exposition of Nazi philosophy.

The Question of the Authorship of "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" remains still unanswered... but there shouldn't be a source for all those books ??

.

[flyermay]

I’m quite surprised to see different threads being recently posted with anti-semitic messages; and at the contrary, posts that tag as anti-semitism any message that makes reference to Protocols being written by Jews.

To the first ones, I don’t think that believing the protocols are authentic automatically makes you an anti-semitic. If a group of Jews (or Zionists) want to take over the world, it doesn’t necessarily means that every Jew is responsible for it, part of the plot, or even agrees with it; in the same way that the bombing of civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan by coalition forces has very little to do with every single British or American.

And to the second ones, if anyone has suspicions that there is a plot by some Jews to dominate the world, I don’t think it is wrong to called them by what they have in common (being Jews, Zionists, or whatever). That’s not anti-semitism, nor racism; as well as it was not racism saying that “Arians” were responsible for the holocaust during WWII.

[flyermay]

Flyermay did a good push to the thread indeed...

Well... I was expecting to much more from it :(

Any suggestions???

Maybe if I start posting the best moments of the protocols...? :confused:

But I recently noticed that taking about Jews (or any other ethnic group) is taboo nowadays; maybe that’s why the “elders or Zion” got so far ;)

[flyermay]

And as someone pointed out in another thread, the theory of the supposed forgery is based on a plagiarism from Maurice Joly's "Dialogue in hell..." whom was a Jew anyway.

And it's also generally accepted that "dialogues in hell" are a plagiarims from "The Dialogues Between Machiavelli and Montesquieu", which was written by Jacob Venedey, also a Jew.

So, either way, those ideas come from Jews (whether they were French Freemasons, Elder Learned, or simple Jews).

[nihil]

Flyer...

The book The Question of the Authorship of "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" provides evidence that Charles Joly, a son of Maurice Joly (on whose writings the Protocols are based), visited Saint Petersburg in 1902 and that Golovinsky and Charles Joly worked together at Le Figaro in Paris.

Skuratovsky, the author, also traces the influences of Dostoyevsky's prose (in particular, The Grand Inquisitor and The Possessed) on Golovinsky's writings, including The Protocols.

The Sources should be found into the texts of the Zionist Congress of Basel, Schweiz, in 1897 .

[flyermay]

Flyer...

The book The Question of the Authorship of "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" provides evidence that Charles Joly, a son of Maurice Joly (on whose writings the Protocols are based), visited Saint Petersburg in 1902 and that Golovinsky and Charles Joly worked together at Le Figaro in Paris.

Skuratovsky, the author, also traces the influences of Dostoyevsky's prose (in particular, The Grand Inquisitor and The Possessed) on Golovinsky's writings, including The Protocols.

The Sources should be found into the texts of the Zionist Congress of Basel, Schweiz, in 1897 .

And yet, we have a jewish family (the Rothschilds) controlling the world according the plans set in the "Protocols...

[nihil]

I do not point to the Elchanan Family, being El-Chanan the REAL name of that Family
from Frankfort (Frankfurt), because there's no obvious proof yet available .

[flyermay]

I do not point to the Elchanan Family, being El-Chanan the REAL name of that Family
from Frankfort (Frankfurt), because there's no obvious proof yet available .

I don't understand what you mean by "no obvious proof".

Did (and do) they not control kings and countries through money lending
Did (and do) they not fund both sides of armed conflicts
Did they not created and sponsored the illuminati
Did (and do) they not provoke economic crisis
Do they not control the media
Do they not control the banking system
... the list is simply endless

All as stated in the protocols

[kblood]

And yet, we have a jewish family (the Rothschilds) controlling the world according the plans set in the "Protocols...

But since the Rothschilds wasnt jews by heritage they are just one of the families around today that have hijacked that religion. Any actuall jews who are openly zionists? Some jews have probably taken the protocols as part of their religion or at least a way of making ancient prophecies come to pass.

For some reason it seems many people are actually trying to make the last part of the bible come true.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Revelation

Which is among other things saying that there will be a second comming and we will face gods judgement.

Some people seem to believe that by making this happen, they will help bring about the second comming or something like that. Which is either christ or the anti christ... or both. Point is that people believe in it, otherwise the text probably wouldnt mean much to anyone. I have a link to a rather nice video about it somewhere. Just have to dig it up.

Some would think it might be happening any day now, but the thing is that so have people done for the last decades, maybe even centuries. Some people have been believed to be the anti christ, none I have heard of have been viewed as the second comming of christ, although a few have or is claiming to be.

Its still all interesting to look in to :)

I met someone while visiting England last year, and he is looking very much into this revelation part of the bible, and as far as I know a christian.

http://www.bilderberg.org/

He is a journalist who doesnt doubt there is an elite controlling the media and the leaders of the world. He has even had first hand experience being a journalist of how editors are put in place, not because they know how journalists should do their jobs to get good news, but because they are to make sure some news dont make the headlines. If someone begins to get too close to some truths that shouldnt become public, they at most make for some small article, far from the front page. Also its likely to get contradicted by experts, then kept from the papers untill peoples focus are elsewhere again.

In the UK journalists have even ended up dead for getting too close to the truth. Tony Gosling with this webpage have even stirred up political relations, because people begin asking questions when looking into all this. I think they refused to join the UN or work with them or something like that. So he was asked to take some parts out of his website, instead he made sure it was fully up to date :)

[flyermay]

But since the Rothschilds wasnt jews by heritage they are just one of the families around today that have hijacked that religion.

Yes, but then, what is a Jew... 85 to 90% of Jews around the world do not descend from any of the tribes of Israel, but from Khazars forced to Judaism in the 8th century. Just look at them, most have light skins and many are even blond!!!

Any actuall jews who are openly zionists? Some jews have probably taken the protocols as part of their religion or at least a way of making ancient prophecies come to pass.

That could be the case; I still have some doubts about the origins of the protocols, but I don't have any about them being currently in place. I would accept it as a coincidence if just a few protocols matched, but too many match too close for me to believe it is.

I'm with you, this subject is amazing... Please post the link to the video.

He is a journalist who doesnt doubt there is an elite controlling the media and the leaders of the world. He has even had first hand experience being a journalist of how editors are put in place, not because they know how journalists should do their jobs to get good news, but because they are to make sure some news dont make the headlines. If someone begins to get too close to some truths that shouldnt become public, they at most make for some small article, far from the front page. Also its likely to get contradicted by experts, then kept from the papers untill peoples focus are elsewhere again.

... And I'm under the impression that there is a great interest in tagging the protocols as a forgery; which added to its accuracy, makes them truly suspicious.

[nihil]

An international Zionist convention held on Aug. 29, 30, and 31, 1897, the first Zionist Congress took place in Basel, Switzerland, initiated by Theodor Herzl. He was troubled by the plight of his people, who were suffering the pains of not having a homeland. He was determined to find a solution to the problem.

"Zionism seeks for the Jewish people a publicly recognized legally secured homeland in Palestine."

* Please note that the are differences between Herzl's political Zionism and the more loosely organized Hibbat Zion (Jewish settlement orientated activities in Palestine) *

The second Basel Congress met Aug. 28-31, 1898 (establishment of the Jewish Colonial Trust); the third, Aug. 15-18, 1899. The fourth Congress was transferred to London, where it took place on Aug. 13-16, 1900; the fifth was again held at Basel, Dec. 29-30, 1901.

- Sixth Congress - Basle, 1903

At the Fifth Zionist Congress, Herzl detailed the “El Arish” project.

...

- Seventh Congress - Basle, 1905

Eighth Congress at The Hague, 1907 - At this Congress the major debate concerned the conflicting approaches of the practical and political Zionists.

- Ninth Congress - Hamburg, 1909

- Tenth Congress - Basle, 1911

- Eleventh Congress - Vienna, 1913

- Twelfth Congress - Carlsbad, 1921

This was the first Congress to be held after the First World War, during which time the Zionist movement had won British support for its endeavors to create a Jewish national home in Palestine (the Balfour Declaration).

A further issue discussed at the Congress was the question of Zionism's relations with the Arabs. This matter had become serious as a result of Arab riots in Jerusalem (1920) and in Jaffa (1921). The Congress passed a resolution declaring that Zionism seeks, “to live in relations of harmony and mutual respect with the Arab people,”

and called on the Executive to achieve a, “sincere understanding with the Arab people.”

The Executive now met in The City of London and Jerusalem.

Oh Yes .

[1977]

My problem with these sort of theories is that they frequently assume that there is a pre-existent "ideal" state, i.e., Western Anglo-Saxon Civilization, and a degenerate "outsider," i.e., the Jews, who are seeking to destroy that ideal of all-that-is-good. And this, I think, creates a sort of tunnel vision that doesn't look at the larger manipulations in the scheme of human history. Civilization is the conspiracy, y'know?

[kblood]

Yes, but then, what is a Jew... 85 to 90% of Jews around the world do not descend from any of the tribes of Israel, but from Khazars forced to Judaism in the 8th century. Just look at them, most have light skins and many are even blond!!!

Very true, which is very suspicious. Jews arent supposed to be lightskinned by origin, but even most jews in Israel are light skinned. Something that have probably been just about impossible to avoid while having no country. So if there ever was an agenda to corrupt the jewish race, it seems to have somewhat succeded.

But then race is something that might matter to those who try to control us, or maybe it is just something they want to matter for us. But it shouldnt matter to anyone.

That could be the case; I still have some doubts about the origins of the protocols, but I don't have any about them being currently in place. I would accept it as a coincidence if just a few protocols matched, but too many match too close for me to believe it is.

I meant they might have taken the protocols as an extension of the religion they already have. Still no one should be judged by prejudice alone. I have only met a few jews. Maybe just one or two even. Hard to make any real assessment of my own on that, and researching any other way is still second hand knowledge.

Untill I have first hand knowledge and experience, I wont have any conclusions of my own on the matter.

I'm with you, this subject is amazing... Please post the link to the video.

Looked around a bit. Was researching the four horsemen at the time I found it. Found it again :) :
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6439295521791525424


... And I'm under the impression that there is a great interest in tagging the protocols as a forgery; which added to its accuracy, makes them truly suspicious.

Indeed. And either way it serves a purpose.

[flyermay]

My problem with these sort of theories is that they frequently assume that there is a pre-existent "ideal" state, i.e., Western Anglo-Saxon Civilization, and a degenerate "outsider," i.e., the Jews, who are seeking to destroy that ideal of all-that-is-good. And this, I think, creates a sort of tunnel vision that doesn't look at the larger manipulations in the scheme of human history. Civilization is the conspiracy, y'know?

I agree that most of them along the 20th century had a xenophobic component against the Jews, but in my case I actually think the western civilization is one of the most corrupt and decadent in human history.

Either way, the idea of being a "goyim slave" to a bunch of Zionist supremacists (more or less what the world is turning into) is also not my ideal utopia.

[kblood]

My problem with these sort of theories is that they frequently assume that there is a pre-existent "ideal" state, i.e., Western Anglo-Saxon Civilization, and a degenerate "outsider," i.e., the Jews, who are seeking to destroy that ideal of all-that-is-good. And this, I think, creates a sort of tunnel vision that doesn't look at the larger manipulations in the scheme of human history. Civilization is the conspiracy, y'know?

Ideal state? If we ever had one it must have been pre egyptians times from what I have researched. If there have been degenration of us, then most have likely happened the last 3000 years, where lots, if not most historical documents have been destroyed or hidden from the public.

The Egyptian times seems to have erased some of their history. During the dark ages and even before that, alot of ancient texts where wiped out, since they contradicted the newer religions too much. Ever since year 0 it seems many have had a high priority of making sure that some of our past wouldnt become part of the official historical record.

[flyermay]

Very true, which is very suspicious. Jews arent supposed to be lightskinned by origin, but even most jews in Israel are light skinned. Something that have probably been just about impossible to avoid while having no country. So if there ever was an agenda to corrupt the jewish race, it seems to have somewhat succeded.

I really never thought of Jews as a race, but rather just as a religion; in the same way as Christians or Muslims (any race can belong to any of them). This is the reason why I don’t consider anti-semitism (in reference to Jews) as racism. As we agreed before, just a small percentage of the world Jews descend from those from the Middle East.

But then race is something that might matter to those who try to control us, or maybe it is just something they want to matter for us. But it shouldnt matter to anyone.

I think that races divided us much more in the past more than now. But yes, I agree that they are trying to divide us with anything they can think of; the tactic is as old as the world.

I meant they might have taken the protocols as an extension of the religion they already have. Still no one should be judged by prejudice alone. I have only met a few jews. Maybe just one or two even. Hard to make any real assessment of my own on that, and researching any other way is still second hand knowledge.

I’m still not able to link the protocols to all Jews, but just to a small cabal of powerful bastards. No doubt that if they succeed all Jews would benefit from the plot, but I doubt many Jews would even believe in it.

Looked around a bit. Was researching the four horsemen at the time I found it. Found it again :) :
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6439295521791525424

Thanks, I’m going to have a look at it now.

[kblood]

I really never thought of Jews as a race, but rather just as a religion; in the same way as Christians or Muslims (any race can belong to any of them). This is the reason why I don’t consider anti-semitism (in reference to Jews) as racism. As we agreed before, just a small percentage of the world Jews descend from those from the Middle East.



I think that races divided us much more in the past more than now. But yes, I agree that they are trying to divide us with anything they can think of; the tactic is as old as the world.



I’m still not able to link the protocols to all Jews, but just to a small cabal of powerful bastards. No doubt that if they succeed all Jews would benefit from the plot, but I doubt many Jews would even believe in it.



Thanks, I’m going to have a look at it now.

Enjoy :)

But if they succeed most jews would probably not benefit from the plot. From what I have learned, most of the actuall jews might actually even be kept from Israel ironically enough. And as proven in WW2, the zionists arent afraid to let jews become lambs to the slaughter to further their agenda.

And yes there are several types of zionists, but it seems that the ones with pure intentions are quite outnumbered or peace treaties wouldnt have been that much of a problem. Israel is a bomb waiting to blow, and it seems that it might have been the intention from the beginning that its there to spark a third world war. Which could be part of fulfilling the Revelations part of the bible.

All that end of days stuff still is something that has been around for millenia now, so expecting it to happen in our lifetime or ever is probably not going to help much. I guess it might be good to be prepared, but I for one dont live my life in fear of possible futures. Enjoy the moment, plan for the future and make the best of it all. It never hurts to be positive in my experience.

[flyermay]

Enjoy :)

That documentary is... really worring (for lack of a better word).

How dare those Christians tag Islamists as fanatics??? FGS they are not only looking forward to the end of the world, but actively contributing to it...

Back to the main subject, I just found a really interesting theory that discards the Zionists as the perpetrators of the world domination plot:

"An interesting article appeared in the newspaper "Die Front" published in Zurich, Switzerland on January 3, 1934, which reported that a group of Jews, more powerful and more influential than the Zionists, has organized a "Cultural Movement" on a world-wide scale with the purpose of putting every country under Jewish domination. Always the same leading idea - not the slightest variation in the program.

The French magazine "Libre Parole" in its issue of November 1933, page 27, and earlier "La Vielle France" issue of March 10, 192 1, published a remarkable speech of Rabbi Reichhorn delivered in Prague in 1869 over the tomb of the Grand Rabbi Simeon-ben-Ihuda; he said in part: "For centuries the Sons of Israel have been despised and persecuted, but they have fought bravely to prepare the way for victory. Now they are approaching their aim. They already dominate the economic life of the damned Christians; their influence is just as great in politics and in moral fields. At the wished for hour, fixed in advance, we shall let loose the Revolution, which by ruining all classes of Christians will definitely enslave Christendom to us. Thus will be accomplished the promise of God made to his people." (New light on the Protocols)

[flyermay]

Here is a resume of the plan invented by the "Learned Elders of Zion," the master program laid down in the "Protocols."

"WE SHALL":

Seduce and demoralize the youth with false doctrines.
(accomplished)
Destroy the family life.
(accomplished)
Dominate humanity by Preying upon their lower instincts and vices.
(accomplished)
Debase and vulgarize Art, and introduce filth in Literature.
(accomplished)
Destroy respect for religions; undermine the reputation of the clergy through scandalous stories and back up the so called "Higher Criticism" so that the old fundamental faith is shattered and quarrels and controversies become permanent in the churches.
(accomplished)
Introduce the habit for luxuries, crazy fashions and spendthrift ideas so that the ality for enjoying clean and plain pleasures is lost.
(accomplished)
Divert the attention of the people by public amusements, sports, games, prize contests, etc., so that there is no time for thinking.
(accomplished)
Confuse and bewilder the minds of the people by false theories and shatter the nerves and health by continuously introducing new poisons. (Alcohol, Nicotine, Drugs, Demineralized foods, etc. -Editor.)
(accomplished)
Instigate class hatred and class war among the different classes of people.
(accomplished)
Dispossess the old Aristocracy, which still keeps up high traditions by excessive taxes and replace it with the "Knights of the Golden Calf."
(accomplished)
Poison the relations between the employees and employers through strikes and lockouts so as to ruin the possibility of productive co-operation.
(accomplished)
Demoralize by all means the higher classes of society and by adverse publicity raise the hate of the people toward them.
(accomplished)
Use industry to ruin agriculture and then in its turn destroy industry by wild speculation.
(accomplished)
Spread all possible utopian theories so as to bring the people into a labyrinth of impractical ideas.
(accomplished)
Raise the rate of wages, which however will not bring any advantage to the workers for at the same time we shall produce a rise in the price of the first necessities of life.
(accomplished)
Cause diplomatic friction and misunderstanding between States which will increase international suspicions and hate thereby greatly augmenting armaments.
(accomplished)
Introduce in all states, general suffrage so that the destiny of nations depend upon ignorant people.
(accomplished)
Overthrow all monarchies and substitute republics for them; in so far as possible fill important state offices with persons who are involved in some unlawful affair and who will, from fear of being exposed, remain our obedient servants.
(accomplished)
Gradually amend all constitutions so as to prepare the soil for absolute despotism and Bolshevism.
Establish huge monopolies upon which even the great fortunes of the Gentiles will depend to such an extent that they will be swallowed up at the "hour" when the industrial crisis will start.
(accomplished)
Destroy all financial stability; increase economic depressions to the extent of bringing a general world bankruptcy; stop the wheels of industry; make bonds, stocks and paper money worthless; accumulate all the gold of the world in the hands of a certain few people thus withdrawing tremendous capital from circulation; at a given hour close all the exchanges, withdraw all credits and cause general panic.
(accomplished)
Prepare the death struggle of the nations; wear out humanity through suffering, fear and shortage of food - hunger creates slaves!!!
(accomplished)

That is the program, and it has been fully accomplished!

[kblood]

But lets look back 500 years, and all of this would still seem accomplished.

Maybe with 18, 19 and 20 as exceptions, but still many people back then could say the same about those doctrines. The others have become more extreme and true today, but still that is how they were centuries ago as well. Relgions get more and more sub religions. Different new faiths and beliefs emerge, famine and financial destability has happened over and over again.

The difference today is that it can be made to effect more of the world at the same time, instead of just parts of the world. With more people on this planet more faiths and beliefs emerge, people look for new ways to make "art" and 500 years from now, they will probably think the same thing.

Yes, the documentary is a bit worrying. How it will play out is still hard to say, but whoever is looking for something is more likely to find something to validate it when believing it. They wont look at some new peace treaty or some country reaching a better economical standing as proof that armageddon isnt comming.

Which makes all these believes so fascinating. Since it seems however we percieve this world, our way of seeing it makes us see the facets that validates our beliefs more than the facets we ignore for the same reason. It doesnt make any of it less true I guess.

[flyermay]

But lets look back 500 years, and all of this would still seem accomplished.

Maybe with 18, 19 and 20 as exceptions, but still many people back then could say the same about those doctrines. The others have become more extreme and true today, but still that is how they were centuries ago as well. Relgions get more and more sub religions. Different new faiths and beliefs emerge, famine and financial destability has happened over and over again.

I have to dissagree with you on this one...
The youth was not seduced and demonised until the 20th century
As well as the destruction of family life
Humanity’s lower instincts and vices were also suppressed until the 20th century (at least in the open)
And what can I say about art… anything is "art" nowadays
Losing respect for religions is also something that happened in the 20th century
As well as habits for luxuries, crazy fashions and spendthrift ideas
I have to give you this one; “bread and circus” was used way back by the Romans. However, people had never been distracted and diverted as much as along the 20th century (i.e. some people just live for sports nowadays).
Alcohol, drugs, nicotine, and demineralised foods also peaked in the 20th century

… and on and on and on…

I agree that a few come from old, but even those got much worse after the protocols were published.

[kblood]

I have to dissagree with you on this one...
The youth was not seduced and demonised until the 20th century
As well as the destruction of family life
Humanity’s lower instincts and vices were also suppressed until the 20th century (at least in the open)
And what can I say about art… anything is "art" nowadays
Losing respect for religions is also something that happened in the 20th century
As well as habits for luxuries, crazy fashions and spendthrift ideas
I have to give you this one; “bread and circus” was used way back by the Romans. However, people had never been distracted and diverted as much as along the 20th century (i.e. some people just live for sports nowadays).
Alcohol, drugs, nicotine, and demineralised foods also peaked in the 20th century

… and on and on and on…

I agree that a few come from old, but even those got much worse after the protocols were published.

All true. But still there was a time when we didnt not even know of tobacco and other drugs. Many new ones came in the 1800s I think it was. I guess many was found in the 1700s when the world view began to broaden. Crazy fashion? Seems to have been that way in France the total of the last 500 years. It has all become crazier today or at least seem so, but back then it was all groundbreaking as well. As for suppresing base instincts that seem something that comes in waves. Some people did live for music back then, but today, yes it seems some people prioritize soccer or above everything else.

Family life destroyed? Im at home playing computer with my brother, grilling with my parents and later we will watch a movie. I guess families used to be closer, like 3 generations living together was common. Still it doesnt seem something that they managed to ruin.

I will agree with the food stuff as well. They certainly have focused alot more on controlling food and medicine in the 20th century. Codex Alimentarius and something they tried to do in the US, although it failed. The Codex seems to be happening though.

Distractions have become more efficient these days, but back then it was mostly about having people forgetting about the misery going on. People starving and diseases, and theater etc. would lighten the mood. Also a usefull tool to make people think well of the state and such. I know Denmark had alot of music mass produced to support the state of Denmark, as a place of goodness, kindness and happiness. Making everything seem idylic, I think the word is.

[nihil]

Hi there...

Just a point seems to be missing from the Plan of those happy clowns that wrote down the Protocols:

The Private Property - After all the propaganda for YOUR OWN house and YOUR OWN car, how could the authors of this so-called plagiarism deprive
millions of Westerners of their own private properties?

So they plan a revolution on a mass scale? I'll fight and even die for my small house ,

You Jerks!


Note: You (above) is for the unknown conspirators, not for the reader :cool:

[kblood]

Hi there...

Just a point seems to be missing from the Plan of those happy clowns that wrote down the Protocols:

The Private Property - After all the propaganda for YOUR OWN house and YOUR OWN car, how could the authors of this so-called plagiarism deprive
millions of Westerners of their own private properties?

So they plan a revolution on a mass scale? I'll fight and even die for my small house ,

You Jerks!


Note: You (above) is for the unknown conspirators, not for the reader :cool:

I think that is part of the financial, but I guess it might not be part of those protocols. But the plan should be to indebt everyone to simple sign up our houses and cars to them, to get more money on credit.

[nihil]

.

So Revolution should be inevitable .

[flyermay]

I've been going around the documentary you posted, and I'm starting to think that 9/11 might had a lot to do with it.

[flyermay]

All true. But still there was a time when we didnt not even know of tobacco and other drugs. Many new ones came in the 1800s I think it was. I guess many was found in the 1700s when the world view began to broaden. Crazy fashion? Seems to have been that way in France the total of the last 500 years. It has all become crazier today or at least seem so, but back then it was all groundbreaking as well. As for suppresing base instincts that seem something that comes in waves. Some people did live for music back then, but today, yes it seems some people prioritize soccer or above everything else.

I think that drugs and fashion were common between high classes, and became popular and accessible for everyone during the 20th century. Alcohol was always common, but not for teenagers or women like nowadays.

But I think most of them are linked together, for example religion, family, vices and abuses.

Family life destroyed? Im at home playing computer with my brother, grilling with my parents and later we will watch a movie. I guess families used to be closer, like 3 generations living together was common. Still it doesnt seem something that they managed to ruin.

There are many exceptions, but look at other families, there are more divorces than ever -which didn’t even exist in the past-, parents don’t know their own children nor they'd understand them –and vice versa-, on one side both parents are working all day, and on the other children are *cough* educated by someone else, and so on and so forth. These problems barely existed in the 19th century.

Distractions have become more efficient these days, but back then it was mostly about having people forgetting about the misery going on. People starving and diseases, and theater etc. would lighten the mood. Also a usefull tool to make people think well of the state and such. I know Denmark had alot of music mass produced to support the state of Denmark, as a place of goodness, kindness and happiness. Making everything seem idylic, I think the word is.

Exactly, the public is not only being distracted, but indoctrinated and brainwashed. All the information given to the public comes through the MSM (until the internet), which is an obvious tool of the PTB.

[nihil]

The most horrid is the Family issue .

[flyermay]

The most horrid is the Family issue .

Indeed, but it's also one that can be avoided (well... if you find the right partner, of course :)).

[nihil]

I'm into thirties and the lesson of my parents generation was just horrible .

Divorces, divorces, divorces . The Grandparents are the opposite - whole life together.

[kblood]

I have to agree on that. My parents were divorced, my mother found a new man within a year and it was a good choice, because they are still together now for 24 years. But two out of my 3 grandparents stayed together with the first partner they had kids with. Amazing how much can change over one generation. And it very much so falls in place with the timing of the protocols, although I cant really see how they managed to dileberately cause such a thing? Media mind control? Enforcing equal rights and the idea of living a free life? Putting more focus on letting a job become your life and who you are and therefore even more important than family?

Seems a somewhat impossible thing to manipulate people into, but still our generation is one where being single is more common than ever I guess and birthrates are dropping. Some of it due to our generation not finding the "right" partner and having kids before 25-30. Sometimes even later. Of course it also happens that 12-13 year olds have kids, but that isnt exactly happening every tuesday.

Of course it also happened 500 years ago, but certainly not on the same scale as today. It was common for people to get married and stay together for the rest of their lives. For better or worse and till death do you apart. I guess maybe the lack of faith in religion might have some say in it.

[nihil]

This thread is intriguing AND difficult .

[1977]

Here is a resume of the plan invented by the "Learned Elders of Zion," the master program laid down in the "Protocols."
...
That is the program, and it has been fully accomplished!
Most of those things had already started during the Enlightenment. And that's really where you find the beginnings of a lot of the modern era: the Lunar and Royal Societies, UGLE Freemasonry, Rosicrucianism, the Illuminati, and, yes, the Rothschilds.

So I'm not denying that they happened, but they would have already been known to people at the beginning of the 20th century.

[solarwindspirit]

Most of those things had already started during the Enlightenment. And that's really where you find the beginnings of a lot of the modern era: the Lunar and Royal Societies, UGLE Freemasonry, Rosicrucianism, the Illuminati, and, yes, the Rothschilds.

So I'm not denying that they happened, but they would have already been known to people at the beginning of the 20th century.

You mean it was just a group of vain glory bunch of thieves oh mean bankers that came together and decided that this is what they were going to do. . .
then they added the BS to the plan
how creative. . .not

[kblood]

...allegedly a plagiarism of a plagiarism of a plagiarism...
(this implies that there should be a source somewhere).

A quick search gives the reader a path, from Popular Novelists, to Masons, to Political Refugees,
to Occult Nazi Supporters :

"Les Mystères du peuple"

The Imperial Government promptly banned the publication of the complete work.
Joseph Marie Eugène Sue (January 20, 1804–August 3, 1857), French novelist, was born in Paris. Eugène Sue was strongly affected by the Socialist ideas of the day.

"Dialogue in Hell Between Machiavelli and Montesquieu"

by Maurice Joly was a veiled Masonic Jewish attack on Napoleon III, an example of how they supported liberalism to undermine the Old Order and usurp power. Joly, whose real name was Joseph Levy, was a lifelong Mason and member of the "Lodge of Mizraim".
Joly, who committed suicide in 1879, was in the habit of "borrowing." He is accused of plagiarizing a popular novel by Eugene Sue, namely "Les Mystères du Paris." (1845)
.

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/3998/bannersdf.gif
http://www.retcliffe.de/

"Biarritz"

by Sir John Retcliffe, a German bureaucrat whise real name was Hermann Goedesche, believed in a conspiracy between Jews and Masons to dominate the world. One chapter of the novel, titled "In the Jewish Cemetery in Prague" relates a speech by a Rabbi named Eichhorn, or Reichhorn, which reveals a Jewish plot against European civilization.

"The Protocols of the Elders of Zion"

by Matvei Vasilyevich Golovinski (alternatively Mathieu; Russian: Матвей Васильевич Головинский; 1865-1920), a Russian-French writer and journalist that drifted into a life of espionage and propaganda work. After working for the czarist secret service, he later changed sides and joined the Bolsheviks

The Protocols reached Germany sometime around 1918. One of those who brought them to Germany was Alfred Rosenberg, an Estonian of German heritage who first encountered the Protocols when a student in Moscow.
In Germany Rosenberg soon became involved with a mystical group that was a precursor to National Socialism known as the Thule Society where he frequently lectured about the Protocols. Rosenberg was there to explain the mysteries of the Protocols when Adolf Hitler appeared on the stage of right-wing politics in 1921. Rosenberg was at Hitler's side during the attempted putsch in Munich in 1923. The Protocols were the basis for much of Mein Kampf, and Rosenberg's book The Myth of the 20th Century became the most important exposition of Nazi philosophy.

The Question of the Authorship of "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" remains still unanswered... but there shouldn't be a source for all those books ??

.

Most of those things had already started during the Enlightenment. And that's really where you find the beginnings of a lot of the modern era: the Lunar and Royal Societies, UGLE Freemasonry, Rosicrucianism, the Illuminati, and, yes, the Rothschilds.

So I'm not denying that they happened, but they would have already been known to people at the beginning of the 20th century.

In the beginning of the 20th century the protocols were already being spread.

[clozaril]

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.


i think it's in this interview where mullins says about TPOTEOZ that it was ruled in a swiss court to be fake he argues that if it's a fake that means there is an original...............

[flyermay]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3k37e7X9t1c

i think it's in this interview where mullins says about TPOTEOZ that it was ruled in a swiss court to be fake he argues that if it's a fake that means there is an original...............

That video was great, thanks for posting it!!!

Most of those things had already started during the Enlightenment. And that's really where you find the beginnings of a lot of the modern era: the Lunar and Royal Societies, UGLE Freemasonry, Rosicrucianism, the Illuminati, and, yes, the Rothschilds.

So I'm not denying that they happened, but they would have already been known to people at the beginning of the 20th century.

Yes, I thought about that... but in my opinion, the ones that can be attributed to the enlightenment -or older ones- got much worse along the 20th century.

And there is also the possibility that they devised the whole plan after realising that the enlightenment provided them with the perfect weaknesses to be exploited in their favour, or even contributing in secret to the enlightenment. Same with the supposed sources for the protocols, the is no way of knowing if Zionists read those books and added the ideas to their plot, or even had the idea for the plan after reading them.

Obviously, I can't confirm those possibilities, but they are certainly not impossible cases.

[rodin]

Yes, it seems that a Russian journalist (Matvei Golovinski) wrote it. In the 1930s two witnesses testified the involvement of Pyotr Ivanovich Rachkovsky in the forgery. But... witnesses also lie, they can be payed to lie, or even forced to sign false confessions.

It's said to be a synthesis from two previous books: Joly's book and Biarritz. But the point is: why did Golovinski knew what was going to happen 100 years later?

The protocols are merely a reworking of the old Judaic plan for dominion over the gentiles as outlined also in the Talmud. Few Jews and no Freemasons will tell you this far as I can see.

Find Juri Lina's book 'Architects of Deception' and 'Under the Sign of the Scorpion.' Go to www.iamthewitness.com ignore current stuff - download the archive material books etc on that site

[nihil]

I was wondering about the family institution in the west. Considering the gap between grandfathers that went to world war ( for what? ), fathers that contribute creating a wealthy nation and the son, enjoying the sexual liberation due to the infamous Summer of Love ( Summer of the Death of Love maybe? ) an dhaving fun wiht 80s horror movies .
Now add the iPod generation listening to the worst mind-controlled music ever, the Pop-Rap and you get the whole pattern .

[hagbard_celine]

Here's a thread where I show that the Protocols are both real and not Jewish:eek:: http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13566

[flyermay]

Here's a thread where I show that the Protocols are both real and not Jewish:eek:: http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13566

So far, I think we all agree that the "elders of zion" doesn't refer to all Jews in general, but to Zionists. Either way, one of the many versions of the book states:

"An interesting article appeared in the newspaper 'Die Front' published in Zurich, Switzerland on January 3, 1934, which reported that a group of Jews, more powerful and more influential than the Zionists, has organized a 'Cultural Movement' on a world-wide scale with the purpose of putting every country under Jewish domination."

[nihil]

So a group of Jews, more powerful and more influential than the Zionists, has organized a 'Cultural Movement' on a world-wide scale with the purpose of putting every country under Jewish domination...

This could be the so called practical zionism, a part of the same zionist group, but much less political in his views. Could this extremist wing the origin of the neo-conservatives (Neo Cons)?

[yozhik]

Well fuck me sideways! :eek: I was going to make a similar thread myself this evening. Maybe we've both been spurred by recent, repeated mentions of the protocols on here?

I have been looking into the claim that it had been proved to be a forgery, yet all I seem to be ale to find (albeit a small search around on a very slow work internet connection earlier today) are statements that it has been refuted, but no real evidence offered as to how.

If someone who really believes it has been proved to be a forgery can point me towards the evidnece for this, I would be most grateful :)

I posted this on another thread where the Protocols were raised; it is relevant here too.

The Protocols have been dismissed as forgeries.
Technically, a "forgery" is anything that is not the original.
Given the "original" Protocols have not been found, just mere "copies", it is not inaccurate [although it is misleading] to state that those documents that have been provided are "forgeries" ... only due to them not being the "original" document.

Legally, a "copy" can be defined as a "forgery".

[nihil]

So a forgery implies the original source .

[yozhik]

So a forgery implies the original source .

I don't know if that conclusion can be drawn or not.
The point being that a claim a document is a "forgery" may simply be a statement that it is not an "original".

[flyermay]

So a forgery implies the original source .

It surely doesn't, a forgery can refer to something supposed to be authentic; but not necessarily a copy. However, in this case, forgery refers to a plagiarism, so an original must exist.

[dolores1]

Hi,

I read this on Saturday and as it showed a great level of understanding of what is happening; I found several items stood out.

Protocol 10 - Labour, spelt labor, the American way
" 14 - Quote " They know not what they do" - Jesus quote from the N.T. This is not Jewish.
Protocol 15 # 1 Europe?
" 15 # 3 Protestism?
" 16 - nigh? Not high?
" 20 It is very paternalistic e.g. especially where it states that all it's women are to be used?
Where it states "the King of the Jews" is total Ignatious Loyola S.J. He wanted to be this.
No inheritance through blood? No women in the text in any positive way, this has to be Jesuits.

It was very late at night when I read it so I might have made some errors and missed some more points. Please add what you discover.

I dislike religion it kills people.

[flyermay]

Hi,

I read this on Saturday and as it showed a great level of understanding of what is happening; I found several items stood out.

Hi Dolores,

I just had a look at your concerns, but they all seem to be errors; except for a couple;

Protocol 10 - Labour, spelt labor, the American way

The first English version was distributed by Henry Ford (in the US).

" 14 - Quote " They know not what they do" - Jesus quote from the N.T. This is not Jewish.

Jesus couldn't also have said those words, becuase he never spoke English ;)

It looks to me like many people could use that phrase, and remember that the book was translated to English.

Protocol 15 # 1 Europe?

Could you elaborate on this one, please?

" 15 # 3 Protestism?

That's a typo, in the versions I have it always comes as "protestantism".

" 16 - nigh? Not high?

That seems to be another typo, but from the OCR program (on the e-book versions)

" 20 It is very paternalistic e.g. especially where it states that all it's women are to be used?
Where it states "the King of the Jews" is total Ignatious Loyola S.J. He wanted to be this.
No inheritance through blood? No women in the text in any positive way, this has to be Jesuits.

Those could be attributed to anyone. Most societies and ethics match it at the beginning of the 20th century.

And I don't think "the king of the Jews" is exclusive to Jesuits.

Please keep on posting...

[eternal_spirit]

Even if someone wants to pull that old chestnut it was "Jesuits",Tbh it's not likely, guess what the Jesuits was a Jewish creation the first Jesuits where Jews (weisphaut for one)

PS the first Pope was jewish and so have many others been, including possibly the last one or two. (don't quote me on that last line)
besides probably more Catholics have been murdered than any other denomination, if the Protocols was their creation then I doubt they'd kill so many millions of their own flock, it's illogical.

[1977]

Loyola was a Basque. And the QUE clearly indicates that this is a CUE or CLUE.