credit card company has responded...

[truthinlove]

i know this is similar to another thread here, so i apologize. i sent the following notice to a credit card company that are seeking payment...

'Notice of Discharge of Outstanding Demand and Request for Clarification regarding Bank of America Platinum Plus Visa Account ending in XXXX.


Dear Sirs,

Please read the following notice thoroughly and carefully before responding. It is a notice. It informs you. It means what it says.

The reason why you need to read carefully is simple. I am offering conditional agreement. This removes controversy, and means that you no longer have any ultimate recourse to a court of law in this matter, because there is no controversy upon which it could adjudicate. You always have the option of dragging these conditions into a court of law only to be told that they are, indeed, perfectly lawful. That is, of course, always your prerogative should you decide to waste your time.

For this reason it is important that you consider and respond to the offer in substance. The 'nearest official form' will not suffice, and consequently is likely to be ignored by myself without any dishonor on my part.

On the other hand, there is a time-limit on the agreement being offered. It is reasonable, and if it runs out then you and all associated parties are in default, removing any and all lawful excuse on your part for proceeding in this matter. For these reasons it is recommended that you carefully consider this notice and respond in substance, which means actually addressing the points raised herein.

You have apparently made demands upon me.

I do not understand those apparent demands and therefore cannot lawfully fulfil them. I seek clarification of your document so that I may act according to the law and maintain my entire body of inalienable Natural Rights.

You have (10) ten days from the date of this letter to clarify completely and accept in good faith this offer.

I conditionally accept your offer to agree that I am legal fiction MR [MY F NAME] and that I owe $ for services rendered by your company, upon proof of claim of all of the following:

1. Proof of claim that the debt has been verified, this includes full bookkeeping records.

2. Proof of claim that a contract exists between you and me, establishing a debt, signed by both parties.

3. Proof of claim that a bill has been signed by you, under full commercial liability of perjury.

4. Proof of claim that I am a person, and not a human being.

5. Proof of claim that you know what a 'person' actually is, in legal terms.

6. Proof of claim that you know the difference between a 'human being' and a 'person', legally speaking.

7. Proof of claim that you know the difference between 'legal' and a 'lawful'.

8. Proof of claim that I am legal fiction 'person' MR [MY F NAME], being the entity to which your paperwork was addressed, and not My-Full: of the Name family, as commonly called.

9. Proof of claim that the charge was the result of a lawful investigation unmarred by prejudice.

10. Proof of claim that I am a member of the society whose statutes and subsisting regulations you are enforcing.

11. Proof of claim that I showed you some sort of identification.

12. Proof of claim that there is a nameable society that I belong to and that the laws covered within any alleged transgressions state that they apply to me within that named society.

Sincerely and without ill will, vexation or frivolity,



My-Full: of the Name family
WITHOUT PREJUDICE, i.e. all Natural Inalienable Rights Reserved

Please address all future correspondence in the matter to a direct Human Self, namely My-Full of the Name family, as commonly called.'

they replied and completely ignored my notice...

'We recently received correspondence regarding a billing dispute on your account. After completing a thorough investigation, we have determined that your dispute falls outside of the guidelines detailed in the Fair Credit Billing Act (FCBA). Additionally, our review found that all fees and finance charges were properly assessed to this account. Based on this investigation, FIA Card Services N.A. considers this matter resolved.'

HA! couple questions:

- should i rebut the "dispute" claim and remind them i'm offering conditional agreement and am not disputing anything?

- should i re-send them a 2nd notice letting them know it is my Lawful Right to have my request points addressed and clarified by them?

[angelmoon]

if they say they consider the matter resolved does this mean they accept that you no longer need to make payment?

[tien an]

What?


"Based on this investigation, FIA Card Services N.A. considers this matter resolved."

Does this mean that they have said you don't owe them anything?

*very interested!*

tian an

[tien an]

if they say they consider the matter resolved does this mean they accept that you no longer need to make payment?

Ha! Beat me to it!

tian an.

[angelmoon]

Ha! Beat me to it!

tian an.

LOL great minds and all that x

[truthinlove]

haha... they also stated:

'...failure to pay your monthly minimum payment may result in your account being referred to an attorney to enforce your obligation under your Credit Card Agreement, which states that Legal proceedings may result in a judgment and can be enforced to the fullest extent of the law.'

[the worm that turned]

Do not construe this as legal advice but having read their reply (assuming this is all of it), they are purposefully ignoring/skirting your points in a hope that you will accept their response. Their response only talks about fees and finance charges, not the actual credit they have supposedly provided you.

Personally I would actually just thank them for their letter, mention that your original letter remains unanswered and provide a further copy. If it is now outside of the 10 days I would state this but allow them a further 7 days (or whatever you choose) to respond. Also mention that this is in no way a dispute (a bank has tried something very similar with me saying it is a complaint) and tell them that the account WILL be in dispute after the stipulated timeframe if they do not respond. Again this is what I would do, not necessarily what you should do, as that is entirely your choice :D

[angelmoon]

haha... they also stated:

'...failure to pay your monthly minimum payment may result in your account being referred to an attorney to enforce your obligation under your Credit Card Agreement, which states that Legal proceedings may result in a judgment and can be enforced to the fullest extent of the law.'

oh shit , i was excited then , so what do they mean when they say this ?

[the worm that turned]

haha... they also stated:

'...failure to pay your monthly minimum payment may result in your account being referred to an attorney to enforce your obligation under your Credit Card Agreement, which states that Legal proceedings may result in a judgment and can be enforced to the fullest extent of the law.'

"Your" payment??? Does that make sense?

"May" and "Can" - not exactly a very strong threat ;)

[truthinlove]

wow guys! thanks so much for pointing out how much more fishy and deceptive this letter actually is than i originally assumed!

[truthinlove]

here is what i plan on sending back to them:

Notice of Discharge of Outstanding Demand and Request for Clarification regarding Bank of America Platinum Plus Visa Account ending in XXXX.

***This is the (2nd) Second Notice***


Dear Sirs,

Please read the following notice thoroughly and carefully before responding. It is a notice. It informs you. It means what it says.

Thank you for your letter marked August 13th, 2009. Unfortunately, all of my requests in the First Notice I sent to you were disregarded. Although the time limit on my First Notice has expired, I am extending the time limit by (10) ten days from the date of this letter to clarify completely and accept in good faith this offer. In addition, I am making it clear that I am not disputing anything, as you have stated in your letter. I am not sure about your implications of the word dispute. As I have stated in my First Notice, I am willing to conditionally accept your offer upon proof of claim, and have not challenged it.

The reason why you need to read carefully is simple. I am offering conditional agreement. This removes controversy, and means that you no longer have any ultimate recourse to a court of law in this matter, because there is no controversy upon which it could adjudicate. You always have the option of dragging these conditions into a court of law only to be told that they are, indeed, perfectly lawful. That is, of course, always your prerogative should you decide to waste your time.

For this reason it is important that you consider and respond to the offer in substance. The 'nearest official form' will not suffice, and consequently is likely to be ignored by myself without any dishonor on my part.

On the other hand, there is a time limit on the agreement being offered. It is reasonable, and if it runs out then you and all associated parties are in default, removing any and all lawful excuse on your part for proceeding in this matter. For these reasons it is recommended that you carefully consider this notice and respond in substance, which means actually addressing the points raised herein.

You have apparently made demands upon me.

I do not understand those apparent demands and therefore cannot lawfully fulfil them. I seek clarification of your document so that I may act according to the law and maintain my entire body of inalienable Natural Rights.

You have (10) ten days from the date of this letter to clarify completely and accept in good faith this offer.

I conditionally accept your offer to agree that I am legal fiction MR [MY F NAME] and that I owe $ for services rendered by your company, upon proof of claim of all of the following:

1. Proof of claim that the debt has been verified, this includes full bookkeeping records.

2. Proof of claim that a contract exists between you and me, establishing a debt, signed by both parties.

3. Proof of claim that a bill has been signed by you, under full commercial liability of perjury.

4. Proof of claim that I am a person, and not a human being.

5. Proof of claim that you know what a 'person' actually is, in legal terms.

6. Proof of claim that you know the difference between a 'human being' and a 'person', legally speaking.

7. Proof of claim that you know the difference between 'legal' and a 'lawful'.

8. Proof of claim that I am legal fiction 'person' MR [MY F NAME], being the entity to which your paperwork was addressed, and not John-Michael: of the Perseo family, as commonly called.

9. Proof of claim that the charge was the result of a lawful investigation unmarred by prejudice.

10. Proof of claim that I am a member of the society whose statutes and subsisting regulations you are enforcing.

11. Proof of claim that I showed you some sort of identification.

12. Proof of claim that there is a nameable society that I belong to and that the laws covered within any alleged transgressions state that they apply to me within that named society.

Sincerely and without ill will, vexation or frivolity,



My-Full: of the Name family
WITHOUT PREJUDICE, i.e. all Natural Inalienable Rights Reserved



Please address all future correspondence in the matter to a direct Human Self, namely My-Full of the Name family, as commonly called.

any additional info you guys can think of?

[rosix]

it actually seems that
these guys might have some idea and/or experience dealing with 'PEOPLE LIKE YOU' i.e. non mindless sheep muppets
some guys after a few hours research online might get that reply and consider it settled and then not do anything further in which case they're often in no better a position than where they started.

I'm not sure but I think it'd be good to include something where you acknowledge or rather directly counter-offer their 'offer' to remove the fraudulent charges - just to be as safe as possible. I'm not sure on this though..

The way I sorta see it is like this - they can either recognise that they're billing a legal fiction where any payments they receive from anyone are merely a gift and then go on to do what they want with any of your info (which you can then deal with afterwards) OR they can try and insist/contest that you ARe infact the legal fiction and then handle things respectively. The funny thing is their conduct doesn't reflect either approach - it's a total FRAUDULENT mash-up 'technique' they have honed over the decades to achieve as much fear and ultimately money as possible.

I guess you could also state you are not decided on whether or not you will proceed with any legal action due to their fraudulent and illegal fees etc.

[yozhik]

haha... they also stated:

'...failure to pay your monthly minimum payment may result in your account being referred to an attorney to enforce your obligation under your Credit Card Agreement, which states that Legal proceedings may result in a judgment and can be enforced to the fullest extent of the law.'

:D

I love their scaremongering bullshit.


OK ... for what it's worth, here are my untrained, non-professional suggestions and initial thoughts on the matter ...


In answer to your question; I would most definitely send a second Notice.
Make reference to their letter.

State/rebut that there was no dispute in your original Notice and there is no dispute now.
Remember; it is VERY important to rebut any [false/disputed] claim they make, as an unrebutted claim is considered tacit agreement.

Remind them, "as the attached copy of the original Notice states"; you conditionally accept their request upon proof of claim ... (make sure you attach a copy of the original Notice)*

No dispute.
No complaint.
No controversy.
Conditional acceptance upon proof of claim.
Genuine effort to keep [timely] communication ongoing.

Remind them that they have XX days to respond and rebut your Notice and provide proof of claim.

Just a suggestion; call your second Notice;
"Notice of Non-Response and Opportunity to Cure".


* if using a copy, it is also worthwhile to place the following wording (inside borders looks nice - so it resembles a stamp) upon the copy (all pages);

The document to which this certificate is affixed
Is CERTIFIED a True, Correct and Complete copy of the original.
Certifier is Holder in Due Course




Signed Date

Notarise.
Registered mail.
It needs to have "lawful weight" and a paper trail.

[yozhik]

Hmmm ... seems I took too long to respond and you beat me to the punch.
Oh well ... its the thought that counts :D

[truthinlove]

excellent guys, egg-cellent!

thanks so much!

i am dealing with bank of america, fyi:D

[yozhik]

excellent guys, egg-cellent!

thanks so much!

i am dealing with bank of america, fyi:D

Then ask them about the millions they just pumped into Dreamworks, along with JP Morgan ... tell them that you have no intention to surrender to their extortion, to fund Hollywood.

:D

Ask them if they received any TARP money; if they did, just suggest to them that they consider this alleged debt as a "toxic asset", for which they have already received taxpayer (you) payment for.

:D

[burnttoast]

haha... they also stated:

'...failure to pay your monthly minimum payment may result in your account being referred to an attorney to enforce your obligation under your Credit Card Agreement, which states that Legal proceedings may result in a judgment and can be enforced to the fullest extent of the law.'

Excellent...send them (along with your notice) revocation of signature and authorization to Credit Card Agreement pertaining to the account in question.

Peace

[dmessick]

I've got some letters that I send to credit card companies as well and all it seems to do is get them to sell the note to another collection agency. I'm also working on the 1099 OID process. Lots of info but I haven't quite got it yet.

[yozhik]

Excellent...send them (along with your notice) revocation of signature and authorization to Credit Card Agreement pertaining to the account in question.

Peace

In plain English ... you are sending them ... what exactly?
:rolleyes:

[yozhik]

I've got some letters that I send to credit card companies as well and all it seems to do is get them to sell the note to another collection agency. I'm also working on the 1099 OID process. Lots of info but I haven't quite got it yet.

1099 OID seems a hell of a minefield!!
Lots of folk getting into all sorts of problems with it and no positive outcome in the UK ... yet ... but a few working on it, behind the scenes [I believe].

I've been told there is an accountant in the UK who is familiar with the process and charges a nominal fee for completing the documents with you.
Need to have this confirmed though ... and also need to see some results coming through before judging it.

[angelmoon]

going to copy your "egg " samlpe and see how i go lol x x

best of luck x x

[burnttoast]

In plain English ... you are sending them ... what exactly?
:rolleyes:

Add an Affidavit to the previously mentioned notice... of "Revocation of Signature" to the Credit Card Agreement that's in question. If the Agreement is the legal tool...revoke it and site the instances of fraud in the notice claim..

Is anyone bound by an agreement that's fraudulent?....nope.

In this instance...the agreement is being used as a scare tactic to enforce a legal proceeding...revoke the agreement and voila...no case.

Peace

[yozhik]

Add an Affidavit to the previously mentioned notice... of "Revocation of Signature" to the Credit Card Agreement that's in question. If the Agreement is the legal tool...revoke it and site the instances of fraud in the notice claim..

Is anyone bound by an agreement that's fraudulent?....nope.

In this instance...the agreement is being used as a scare tactic to enforce a legal proceeding...revoke the agreement and voila...no case.

Peace

Nice.
Like it.