A Question for Freemasons:Who or What is Jahbulon?

[size_of_light]

Hi guys.

I've got a thread going on solar eclipses here: http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1201677&posted=1#post1201677 and the name 'Jabulon' came up in connection to an underground 'Copper City' in Africa, which is ruled by a reptilian of that name.

This is what Credo Mutwa has to say:

Jabulon, sir, is a very strange god. He is supposed to be the leader of the Chitauli. He is a god, to my great surprise, which I find certain groups of White people, especially, worshipping. We have known about Jabulon for many, many centuries, we Black people. But I am surprised that there are White people who worship this god, and these people, amongst them are people whom many have blamed for all the things that have happened on this Earth, namely, the Freemason people. We believe that Jabulon is the leader of the Chitauli. He is the Old One. And one of his names, in the African language, sir, is Umbaba-Samahongo-“the lord king, the great father of the terrible eyes”-because we believe that Jabulon has got one eye which, if he opens it, you die if he looks at you.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=97

According to Wikipedia, in a Masonic context:

Jahbulon (or Jabulon) is a word which was used historically in some rituals of Royal Arch Masonry. According to Francis X. King, it is also used in Ordo Templi Orientis rituals.

There has been much debate over the origin and meaning of this word. There is no consensus even among Masonic researchers as to its meaning or legitimacy: one Masonic scholar alleges that the word first appeared in an early 18th Century Royal Arch ritual as the name of an allegorical explorer searching for the ruins of King Solomon's Temple; another Masonic scholar believes it is a descriptive name for God in Hebrew; other, non-Masonic, authors have alleged that it is a Masonic name for God, and even the name of a unique "Masonic God", despite repeated statements by Freemasonry's officials that "There is no separate Masonic God", nor a separate proper name for a deity in any branch of Freemasonry.[1][2] It is this interpretation of a "Masonic God" that has led to debates about and condemnation of Freemasonry by several religious groups. In England, no ritual containing the name has been in official Masonic use since February 1989. [3]

Jahbulon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Can I ask what you guys make of 'Jahbulon' from the perspective of your understanding of Freemasonry, and secondly, what do you think about Credo Mutwa connecting the word to the name of the ruler of this alleged underground city in Africa?

Thanks.

[grandsecretary]

It was the "substitute" name for God invented by the Moderns form of freemasonry and included in the "Royal Arch" or completion of the Third Degree.

It is a composite word in an attempt to justify the term "A Supreme Being". It suggests that there are several names for the same God. Of course, this notion is what came under such heavy public attack in the 1990's, which is why it was dropped by the Moderns in favour of the single word "Jehovah".

This is supposedly the secret word of a (3rd degree) Master Mason, except that we all know it.

"Hiram Abiff was probably never heard of in a Lodge until after 1717 ... The legend of the Third Degree was introduced by the newcomers into Masonry ... - Albert Pike 1886 (SOURCE: Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry by Charles Sumner Lobingier, 1932)

[size_of_light]

Thanks GS.

Any idea who invented it?

Is the composite: Jehovah-Baal-Osiris, as far as you know?

[grandsecretary]

Thanks GS.

Any idea who invented it?

Is the composite: Jehovah-Baal-Osiris, as far as you know?

I will leave Moderns to explain this one because I have an opinion that is contrary to theirs, but it is that, an opinion.

The important thing is what they believe it to be. You cannot trick people into saying something that they either do not know or do not believe in, and then later claim that because they repeated certain words that they must have believed it in the first place.

PS: (sorry, missed it) The current Moderns ritual, and the composite name, was invented by the Grand Lodge of Free and Accepted Masons according to the Old Institution, 1751 (The Antients). Acceptance of it as the completion of the third or Master Mason's degree was a pre-requisite for the agreed capitulation by The Grand Lodge of London in 1813, which allowed the formation of The United Grand Lodge of England. Prior to this The Grand Lodge of London stated that Craft freemasonry consists of three degrees and three degrees only, the Entered Apprentice, the fellow Craft, and the Master Mason.

[thelyran]

It was the "substitute" name for God invented by the Moderns form of freemasonry and included in the "Royal Arch" or completion of the Third Degree.

It is a composite word in an attempt to justify the term "A Supreme Being". It suggests that there are several names for the same God. Of course, this notion is what came under such heavy public attack in the 1990's, which is why it was dropped by the Moderns in favour of the single word "Jehovah".

This is supposedly the secret word of a (3rd degree) Master Mason, except that we all know it.

I must have my wires crossed here sir,after completion of the entry level degrees (The blue degrees),you are imparted the name Jahbulon.I was informed,it was only the 32 and 33 degrees that earned the right to know this,otherwise,it's known as GATU (The Grand Architect Of The Universe).

:D...unless Mr Secretary,you just slipped up and you have achieved these
levels:D...all I can say,is WHOOPS...but do feel free to illuminate my ignorance kind sir.Thankyou.:)

[size_of_light]

I will leave Moderns to explain this one because I have an opinion that is contrary to theirs, but it is that, an opinion.

The important thing is what they believe it to be. You cannot trick people into saying something that they either do not know or do not believe in, and then later claim that because they repeated certain words that they must have believe it in the first place.

No problem.

I'm not trying to trick you or anyone else and quote you out of context at a later date.

I don't expect anyone has all the answers, just looking for interpretations.

I'm currently musing on the phonetic similarity between Jahbulon or Jabulon, and 'Babylon'.

[size_of_light]

PS: (sorry, missed it) It was invented by the Grand Lodge of Free and Accepted Masons according to the Old Institution, 1751 (The Antients). Acceptance of it as the completion of the third or Master Mason's degree was a pre-requisite for the agreed capitulation by The Grand Lodge of London in 1813, which allowed the formation of The United Grand Lodge of England.

Thank you.

[grandsecretary]

I must have my wires crossed here sir,after completion of the entry level degrees (The blue degrees),you are imparted the name Jahbulon.I was informed,it was only the 32 and 33 degrees that earned the right to know this,otherwise,it's known as GATU (The Grand Architect Of The Universe).

:D...unless Mr Secretary,you just slipped up and you have achieved these
levels:D...all I can say,is WHOOPS...but do feel free to illuminate my ignorance kind sir.Thankyou.:)

No, not at all. Wires in place. In England, ever since the union of 1813 which brought about the formation of The United Grand Lodge of England, the word JAH-BUL-ON has been the substitute secret word of a Master Mason until it was dropped in favour of the word Jehovah on its own.

This word was imparted to all newly made Companions of the Royal Arch in England since the formation of the Antients Grand Lodge in 1756. It is no longer used AT ALL in England within the Moderns Craft system.

As you know, although American Moderns lodges all claim regularity because of their original Charters or warrants issued by English, Scottish or Irish Moderns freemasonry, it has been reformed and restructured for American useage since the American Revolution. What we are debating here is the use of the word JAH-BUL-ON, and not where it is or is not used.

Perhaps you would like to explain what this word means to you, especially because you still use it. I do not wish to interfere with this because our Grand Lodge has never used this composite word for "God".

[thelyran]

No, not at all. Wires in place. In England, ever since the union of 1813 which brought about the formation of The United Grand Lodge of England, the word JAH-BUL-ON has been the substitute secret word of a Master Mason until it was dropped in favour of the word Jehovah on its own.

This word was imparted to all newly made Companions of the Royal Arch in England since the formation of the Antients Grand Lodge in 1756. It is no longer used AT ALL in England within the Moderns Craft system.

As you know, although American Moderns lodges all claim regularity because of their original Charters or warrants issued by English, Scottish or Irish Moderns freemasonry, it has been reformed and restructured for American useage since the American Revolution. What we are debating here is the use of the word JAH-BUL-ON, and not where it is or is not used.

Perhaps you would like to explain what this word means to you, especially because you still use it. I do not wish to interfere with this because our Grand Lodge has never used this composite word for "God".

...Thankyou Grandsecretary for your informative answer.Ja-Bul-On,was just,to
me that is,whether it has bearing of the truth or not,was exactly as you said
a composite word for God.God,being the English translation of the word EL in
Hebrew.As many other languages,would have their own interpretation of the word.Freemasonary,has it's own language,so as to keep the secrets for those uninitiated,and for those,who eavedrop at the temple doors.Although,you once informed me,that the higher degrees are performed at private estates...
which makes alot of sense,especially today,with directional microphones and
other surveillance equipment available these days.Not saying that's the reason for the venue change,but it certainly worked well.

...But while you are here,just like to let you know,I thoroughly enjoy Manly P Hall books and find Questions and Answers,to be the most practical guide to
life and spiritual aspects.The Secret Destiny of America was great to,with it's comparisons of modern America as the twin sister to Atlantis.

...Don't want to side-track the thread here,but I was amazed to find the Negroes of Africa,once practiced Freemasonary as well,but excluded,from joining the lodge,until recently.Just look at the Sphinx's head,a female negroid
.There was a time,the world achieved greater technological success,than we have today.After the great cataclysm,you find many peoples returning to tribal roots and abandoning the Mystery school teachings,that went through a revival during the Babylonian times,which influenced the Hebrew Kabbalah.
...like the snake,eating it's tale,we seem to be caught in a cycle,of achievement,golden periods,followed by decadence and destruction,just to reform and rebuild,to play the cycle over again.But the torch just gets passed to a different group each time...can you see what I'm saying here...
...the knowledge is dangerous,without a spiritual view.Sounds ridiculous to
the mundane,but you understand,this.And thankyou Grand Secretary,for informing with the last post,I appreciate,regards sir.

[nihil]

I just considered that jahbulon was the Sai Baba .

[keystone]

I just considered that jahbulon was the Sai Baba .

You - are a tease. :D

Cheers

[nihil]

Thank you . By the way I find similarities with a well-known mystical creature

http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/512/chimeraw.jpg

The Manticore .

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/3016/manticora.gif

...better than the saibaba for sure .

[humito]

a mason will not tell you the truth remember ?...........and lowly master masons of the 3rd degree certainly are misinformed anyway being led to believe it signifies 3 aspects of the divine source..........wakey wakey.......... the word perverts the divine source by joining it with a pagan god to whom children were sacrificed and also with the sun god............crowley loved it for its pagan anti christian conotations and it is used in oto rituals.to this day......:rolleyes:

[nihil]

weird issue for sure .

[keystone]

Still being a repeater Humito?

Cheers

[humito]

are you being a repeater by calling me a repeater.............? how many oto rituals have you attended?

[grandsecretary]

a mason will not tell you the truth remember ?...........and lowly master masons of the 3rd degree certainly are misinformed anyway being led to believe it signifies 3 aspects of the divine source..........wakey wakey.......... the word perverts the divine source by joining it with a pagan god to whom children were sacrificed and also with the sun god............crowley loved it for its pagan anti christian conotations and it is used in oto rituals.to this day......:rolleyes:

The Christian Church had clear pagan origins and in its early days was polytheistic. Some might say that it is still polytheistic unless you can explain God the Father, God the Son and God The Holy Ghost? Can you?

[keystone]

It was the ..........a mason will not tell you the truth.......falsehood that got to me - sorry.

But perhaps we are repeating ourselves. :D

"Time for bed" said Zebedee.

'Night.

[keystone]

how many oto rituals have you attended?None but then again I wouldn't because I'm not a member of the OTO. 2 truths there - sorry to burst the bubble.

Now I am going to my rack.

Cheers

[humito]

The Christian Church had clear pagan origins and in its early days was polytheistic. Some might say that it is still polytheistic unless you can explain God the Father, God the Son and God The Holy Ghost? Can you?


so you are saying that the masonic ideal of god is polytheistic by alluding to pagan christianity?

I know christ is allegory for the SUN and the internal SUN of enlightenment after consuming the real sacrament of the amanita mushroom........yes i can explain god the father as creator of everything , god the son as matter in the universe ( that which we can see) and the holy ghost as the animating spirit of life and the spiritual dimensions.......this is not polytheism as they are aspects of the one.........and are worshipped as a whole, jah bul on is not a whole or certain aspects of the whole as some are led to believe but in my opinion are three sperate deities apart from each other.......

all pagan gods and goddesses are aspects of human conciousness

[nihil]

I follow you, even to me it seems an union of different characters,
but I don't know which these different characters really are . Deceptive .

[grandsecretary]

so you are saying that the masonic ideal of god is polytheistic by alluding to pagan christianity?

I know christ is allegory for the SUN and the internal SUN of enlightenment after consuming the real sacrament of the amanita mushroom........yes i can explain god the father as creator of everything , god the son as matter in the universe ( that which we can see) and the holy ghost as the animating spirit of life and the spiritual dimensions.......this is not polytheism as they are aspects of the one.........and are worshipped as a whole, jah bul on is not a whole or certain aspects of the whole as some are led to believe but in my opinion are three sperate deities apart from each other.......

all pagan gods and goddesses are aspects of human conciousness

No, what I asked you is to explain why JAH-BUL-ON is polytheistic, but God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost of Christianity is not. Free Masonry, and Christianity come from the same roots, and they were both polytheistic. Christianity had both Gods, and Godesses, for quite some time.

[thelyran]

...If people propose sensible questions with a degree of decorum and manners
...one might even get a straight answer,or one close to the truth,where the Mason,does'nt have to comprimise their secret oaths.
...All these games of treachery and deceit has been played out on this forum
for years,with the same cyclic results.Try and be gentlemen,and you might
achieve something.If the Status Quo remains,then the same recycled garbadge will keep arising...regards forum members...:)

[grandsecretary]

I may be wrong, but as far as I can see, Masons and non-Masons alike on this thread are discussing the actual topic for once JAH-BUL-ON.

IMHO they are doing so, perfectly reasonably, and we are learning from each other.

[thelyran]

I may be wrong, but as far as I can see, Masons and non-Masons alike on this thread are discussing the actual topic for once JAH-BUL-ON.

IMHO they are doing so, perfectly reasonably, and we are learning from each other.

...Well,that is very true Grandsecretary,but if this attitude could be maintained,the possibility for transforming debate in The Secret Societies
sub-forum would attract more members willing to discuss.I find this sub-forum
usually riddled with cyclic arguements,unattractive to visit,similar,to how others feel about 911.A little understanding,on all sides,would go far,in raising the status,repair and mend,certain animosities between people,and one might start to see the similarities,than focusing on the negatives,Some people even believe all Masons are blood drinkers,for example.I take a look at you...and you would never even seen it,let alone believe it.You might appear smug,but
you're not evil.Same as Keystone,usually one of the most gentlemanly posters
amongst us,sports a reptilian Star Trek avatar,crack me up...but a good guy.
...a role you could invest in,is show the human side of Freemasonary,dis-spell
the ridiculous rumours,acknowledge there is corruption in every organisation,
but not every member.Regards kind sir,back to discussing Jabulon...Ye olde
Black Sun....Hahahaha,kidding:D:)

[grandsecretary]

...Well,that is very true Grandsecretary,but if this attitude could be maintained,the possibility for transforming debate in The Secret Societies
sub-forum would attract more members willing to discuss.I find this sub-forum
usually riddled with cyclic arguements,unattractive to visit,similar,to how others feel about 911.A little understanding,on all sides,would go far,in raising the status,repair and mend,certain animosities between people,and one might start to see the similarities,than focusing on the negatives,Some people even believe all Masons are blood drinkers,for example.I take a look at you...and you would never even seen it,let alone believe it.You might appear smug,but
you're not evil.Same as Keystone,usually one of the most gentlemanly posters
amongst us,sports a reptilian Star Trek avatar,crack me up...but a good guy.
...a role you could invest in,is show the human side of Freemasonary,dis-spell
the ridiculous rumours,acknowledge there is corruption in every organisation,
but not every member.Regards kind sir,back to discussing Jabulon...Ye olde
Black Sun....Hahahaha,kidding:D:)

Opinion accepted. I always get on quite well with keystone until someone else throws the bone, and we end up chewing it.

[bard]

I am not a Freemason, but according to what I know, Jahbulon is a representation of one and the same deity. The name is composed of 3 sources:

1) Yahweh -> "According to the Bible, Yahweh is the personal name of the one true God who delivered Israel from Egypt and gave the Ten Commandments"
2) Baal -> Canaanite deity
3) Aton -> "Aten (or Aton) was the disk of the sun in ancient Egyptian mythology, and originally an aspect of Ra. He became the deity of the monotheistic — in fact, monistic — religion Atenism of Amenhotep IV, who took the name Akhenaten. The worship of Aten seemed to stop shortly after Akhenaten's death."

The missing connection between all three is provided by the Hyksos - the ancient Shepherd Kings of Egypt (shown on the left)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/58/Ibscha.jpg

The Hyksos ruled Egypt from 13th to 17th dynasty and were expelled from the country at the end of the 17th dynasty. The pharaoh who introduced monotheism in Egypt for the first time was Amenhotep IV (aka Akhenaten). He forced the popolation to worship Aton as the only true god. Some people have argued (based on the available historical evidence) that Akhenaten was only a puppet of the Hyksos, who ruled behind his throne. They were kicked out of Egypt after his death. It has been argued also that the Hyksos were of semitic origin and their stay in Egypt is the source for the Exodus myth in the Bible. The Torah itself is largely a plagiarized account of earlier Egyptian, Babylonian and Sumerian legends.

The first time I stumbled upon the Hyksos connection was through the work of Michael Tsarion "The Irish Origins of Civilization". Do your own research.

[grandsecretary]

The Prophet Elijah's challenge of the Hebrew priests of Baal is one of the most moving Bible accounts. (1 Kings 8:18-40) The Bible indicates that at one time the majority of Hebrew priests and people followed the rituals of Baal worship.

"Baal... has the precise meaning in Gaelic as in Phoenician - the lord of heaven." Many customs hearken back to Palestine, as well; "Even the cakes which the idolatrous Jews, in imitation of the Phoenicians, made in honour of the queen of heaven are still the most popular cake in Ireland under the old name of the barnbrack, or speckled cake." (SOURCE: The Gael and Cimbri by Sir William Betham, p. 226 & 236)

Please see: http://www.ensignmessage.com/archives/celticmythology.html

[thelonious]

It was the "substitute" name for God invented by the Moderns form of freemasonry and included in the "Royal Arch" or completion of the Third Degree.

This is incorrect. The Royal Arch degree does not claim that it is "substitute" name for God, or any name of God.

The only name of God used in the Royal Arch degree is the Tetragrammaton.

To the OP:

It has been theorized that "Jah", "Bel", and "On" were three ancient Semitic words, all of which mean "Lord", and that therefore they were "descriptive" of God.

[thelonious]

I must have my wires crossed here sir,after completion of the entry level degrees (The blue degrees),you are imparted the name Jahbulon.I was informed,it was only the 32 and 33 degrees that earned the right to know this,otherwise,it's known as GATU (The Grand Architect Of The Universe).



"Jahbulon" is not found in the Scottish Rite of Masonry, which has 33 degrees. It is instead found in some versions of the Royal Arch degree, and seems to be much more important to conspiracy theorists than it is to Masons.

[nihil]

Jahbulon is found in some versions of the Royal Arch degree, and seems to be much more important to conspiracy theorists than it is to Masons.

Indeed .

[size_of_light]

Thanks to everyone for their input and discussions so far - interesting subject.

[marpat]

a mason will not tell you the truth remember ?...........and lowly master masons of the 3rd degree certainly are misinformed anyway being led to believe it signifies 3 aspects of the divine source..........wakey wakey.......... the word perverts the divine source by joining it with a pagan god to whom children were sacrificed and also with the sun god............crowley loved it for its pagan anti christian conotations and it is used in oto rituals.to this day......:rolleyes:

Please give some examples of OTO rituals that contain such things.

[marpat]

are you being a repeater by calling me a repeater.............? how many oto rituals have you attended?

I have attended a few. Please explain your posts

[thelonious]

The Prophet Elijah's challenge of the Hebrew priests of Baal is one of the most moving Bible accounts. (1 Kings 8:18-40) The Bible indicates that at one time the majority of Hebrew priests and people followed the rituals of Baal worship.


True, but "Baal" is used in different contexts in the scriptures. The actual word "Ba'al" simply means "Lord", and can apply to any deity as a generic title.

[marpat]

so you are saying that the masonic ideal of god is polytheistic by alluding to pagan christianity?

I know christ is allegory for the SUN and the internal SUN of enlightenment after consuming the real sacrament of the amanita mushroom........yes i can explain god the father as creator of everything , god the son as matter in the universe ( that which we can see) and the holy ghost as the animating spirit of life and the spiritual dimensions.......this is not polytheism as they are aspects of the one.........and are worshipped as a whole, jah bul on is not a whole or certain aspects of the whole as some are led to believe but in my opinion are three sperate deities apart from each other.......

all pagan gods and goddesses are aspects of human conciousness

Are not all deities aspects of consciousness?

[thelonious]

Are not all deities aspects of consciousness?

Or perhaps all consciousnesses are aspects of deity?

[dawnismygoddess]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/InvertedRedPentagram/JahBulOn2.jpg


Jahbulon and the nonagram - the numbers 3, 9, and 27 being VERY WELL represented here.




Some additional nonagram examples...




SR 33° jewel:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/InvertedRedPentagram/3_Triangles-1.jpg



SR 18° Knights of the White Eagle or Pelican:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/InvertedRedPentagram/RoP18thdegreeKnightsoftheWhiteEa-1.jpg



My girlfriend's nonagram pendant:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/InvertedRedPentagram/4545-1.jpg

[nihil]

SR 33° jewel:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/InvertedRedPentagram/3_Triangles-1.jpg

I read: ORDO AB CHAO and I read: DEUS MEUMQUE JUS

ORDER FROM CHAOS is the motto for the Hegelian Principle of Problem-Reaction-Solution ...Social Manipulation .

GOD AND MY RIGHT seems similar to the Nazi motto: GOTT MIT UNS




Jahbulon and the nonagram the numbers 3 9 27 being represented



Why numbers 3, 9, 27 appear on the sign? Have they some particular meaning?

[dawnismygoddess]

Why numbers 3, 9, 27 appear on the sign? Have they some particular meaning

Yes.

For instance, how many syllables are in Jahbulon?

[grandsecretary]

Yes.

For instance, how many syllables are in Jahbulon?

JAH-BUL-ON is a tetragrammaton, as is the alternative word JE-HO-VAH.

Many, if not most, of the Ancient Pagan Gods and Goddesses were made up of three entities in one. This tradition is carried right into modern Christianity with God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost, three in one, a triune God, the Holy Trinity.

Please see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triune_gods

[thelonious]

But you've used symbolism of the Scottish Rite. The word "Jahbulon" is not a part of the Scottish Rite. Rather, it's found in some versions of the Royal Arch degree, which in America is part of the York Rite.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/InvertedRedPentagram/JahBulOn2.jpg


Jahbulon and the nonagram - the numbers 3, 9, and 27 being VERY WELL represented here.




Some additional nonagram examples...




SR 33° jewel:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/InvertedRedPentagram/3_Triangles-1.jpg



SR 18° Knights of the White Eagle or Pelican:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/InvertedRedPentagram/RoP18thdegreeKnightsoftheWhiteEa-1.jpg



My girlfriend's nonagram pendant:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/InvertedRedPentagram/4545-1.jpg

[dawnismygoddess]

But you've used symbolism of the Scottish Rite. The word "Jahbulon" is not a part of the Scottish Rite. Rather, it's found in some versions of the Royal Arch degree, which in America is part of the York Rite.

That's like saying the hexagram found in Golden Dawn is not like a hexagram found in Scottish Rite. At some level, it's really all one and the same.

Same difference.

[dawnismygoddess]

JAH-BUL-ON is a tetragrammaton, as is the alternative word JE-HO-VAH.

Many, if not most, of the Ancient Pagan Gods and Goddesses were made up of three entities in one. This tradition is carried right into modern Christianity with God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost, three in one, a triune God, the Holy Trinity.

Please see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triune_gods

Thank you.




Holy, Holy, Holy:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/InvertedRedPentagram/Holyholyholy.jpg

[grandsecretary]

"The first four degrees of Craft Masonry are accepted as equivalents to the first four degrees of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite". (SOURCE: Rituals of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry)

As dawnismygoddess stated, "... same meat, different gravy."

[marpat]

JAH-BUL-ON is a tetragrammaton, as is the alternative word JE-HO-VAH.

Many, if not most, of the Ancient Pagan Gods and Goddesses were made up of three entities in one. This tradition is carried right into modern Christianity with God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost, three in one, a triune God, the Holy Trinity.

Please see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triune_gods

I thought the tetragrammaton meant 4 lettered word. True, Jehovah is one but only when spelt YHVH.

[biblegirl]

interesting thread :)

[grandsecretary]

I thought the tetragrammaton meant 4 lettered word. True, Jehovah is one but only when spelt YHVH.

The Moderns state that both words are interchangeable/alternate. They are never communicated at length, but by three suitably qualified Masons, each expressing one of the three parts of the words, thereby making up the whole.

"Jah", "Bul", "On".

"Je", "ho", "vah".

[hierophant]

probably the most famous depiction of jahbulon, for example used in the illuminati documentary series directed by chris everard, is taken from stephen knight's book "the brotherhood" (1984), pp. 236-240:




"In the ritual of exaltation, the name of the Great Architect of the Universe is revealed as JAH-BUL-ON -not a general umbrella term open to any interpretation an individual Freemason might choose, but a precise designation that describes a specific supernatural being - a compound deity composed of three separate personalities fused in one. Each syllable of the 'ineffable name' represents one personality of this Trinity:

JAH = Jahweh, the God of the Hebrews.
BUL = Baal, the ancient Canaanite fertility god associated with 'licentious rites of imitative magic'.
ON = Osiris, the Ancient Egyptian god of the underworld.

Baal, of course, was the 'false god' with whom Jahweh competed for the allegiance of the Israelites in the Old Testament. But more recently, within a hundred years of the creation of the Freemason's God, the sixteenth-century demonologist John Weir identified Baal as a devil. This grotesque manifestation of evil had the body of a spider and three heads - those of a man, a toad and a cat. A description of Baal to be found in de Plancy's Dictionary of Witchcraft is particularly apposite when considered in the light of the secretive and deceptive nature of Freemasonry: his voice was raucous, and he taught his followers guile, cunning and the ability to become invisible.

In 1873, the renowned masonic author and historian General Albert Pike, later to become Grand Commander of the Southern Jurisdiction of the Supreme Council (of the 33rd Degree) at Charleston, USA, wrote of his reaction on learning of Jah-Bul-On. He was disquieted and disgusted by the name, and went on: 'No man or body of men can make me accept as a sacred word, as a symbol of the infinite and eternal Godhead, a mongrel word, in part composed of the name of an accursed and beastly heathen god, whose name has been for more than two thousand years an appellation of the Devil.'

I have spoken to no less than fifty-seven long-standing Royal Arch Freemasons who have been happy to talk to me, to help me in my ambition to give Freemasonry 'a fair crack of the whip'. Most of them spoke quite freely, explaining without hesitation their views, reactions and answers to the criticisms and queries I raised. However, all but four lost their self-assurance and composure when I said, 'What about Jah-Bul-On?' Some, although they had previously told me they had been exalted to the Royal Arch, and therefore must have not only received the lecture on the name but also studied the passages and enacted the ritual relating to Jah-Bul-On, said they had never heard of it. In most cases the interviewees very rapidly brought the meeting to a close when I asked the question. Others laughed unconvincingly and extricated themselves from having to reply by jauntily saying such words as, 'Oh, that old chestnut', and passing quickly on to some other subject, normally going on the offensive with something like, 'Why are you so interested in Freemasonry in particular? Why don't you look into Christianity or something? Why do people always pick on Freemasonry?' -thereby diverting the conversation from the course I had plotted. If I insisted on returning to Jah-Bul-On, almost invariably the interview would be unceremoniously terminated. Others said that although they had heard of the word, they did not know what it meant. To them it meant God, and previously erudite Freemasons, with a precise knowledge of every other aspect of Masonry we had discussed, suddenly became vague and claimed ignorance of this most central of all Freemasonic subjects. While professing an almost total lack of knowledge of Jah-Bul-On, several dismissed it as of no real importance.

Charles Stratton, one Royal Arch Freemason for whom I have the utmost admiration, told me this of Jah-Bul-On: 'No one ever has time to think about its meaning, you're too busy trying to remember your words. As far as I know it's just another name for Jehovah.'

Acute silences, chiefly of embarrassment, followed my question on many occasions, as happened when I spoke to a most co-operative officer both of Grand Lodge and Grand Chapter.

We had been discussing whether or not Freemasonry was a religion, and I had run through my customary list of religious terms used in Freemasonry. Then I added, 'One comes across the phrase, "the sacred tenets of Free­masonry". This seems to imply that Masonry thinks of itself as a religion.'

The Grand Officer replied, 'No, I haven't said that. .. the sacred tenets?'

'Yes.'

'Well, the word sacred means holy.'

'Yes. Then there's the "Holy" Royal Arch.'

He paused. When he began to speak again it was much more slowly.

'Yes. The Holy Royal Arch. They are all expressions of ... religion in its fullest sense, not in a masonic sense. I cannot stress too strongly the fact that there is no masonic religion, no masonic god, deity or someone or something to which a Freemason must swear loyalty. No.'

'What about Jah-Bul-On?'

He was obviously taken off-guard. He said nothing for nearly ten seconds and looked most discomfited. At length, proceeding with the extreme caution of a man feeling his way through a thicket of thorns, he said: 'These are ... Hebrew words which are ... murdered from their original. And Jah is the Hebrew word for God, so it's God again. You come back to God, the real God. But these - ha! [he chuckled] - these are ways in which we express our loyalty to God.'

'It's interesting you should choose only to define the first syllable, which is of course the most acceptable to those with religious convictions. But what about the other parts of that word which are, are they not, Baal and Osiris?'

Another long pause. 'I don't know them. That's the higher echelons of Freemasonry.'

'That's in the Royal Arch, isn't it?'

'I don't do Royal Arch. I do Chapter, but not Royal Arch.'

This was the first lie he had told me, and I could see it was unpleasant for him.

I continued: 'It is established that Jahbulon is a composite name for God, made up of Jah—'

'What's Bul-On?'

'Bul is Baal and On is Osiris, the Ancient Egyptian god of the dead.'

'Well...'

'Pike was outraged when he heard that name for the first time and saw it associated with Freemasonry, which of course was so dear to him. He said that nothing would induce him to accept as the name of God a word which is in part the name of a pagan god and for more than two thousand years an appellation of the devil.'

'I agree on that, but I... I... I don't know about it. It's not that I don't want to. I don't know about it so I really can't comment. You'll have to ask someone who knows.'

'Does it worry you?'

'In one of the higher degrees they use Jesus Christ.'

'Yes, there are several masonic orders which are exclusively Christian - the Knights Templar, the Ancient and Accepted Rite, the Societas Rosicruciana, the Knights of Malta, the Order of Eri. But does the name Jah-Bul-On worry you?'

'Many Masons wouldn't subscribe to those Christian degrees.'

The implication was clear: if Christ was an acceptable part of Freemasonry even to a non-Christian, why not the devil as well? Unacceptable though he might be to most initiates, he has his place."



make of it what you like ;)

[grandsecretary]

He was not lying hyerophant, he had been lied to. There is a big difference.

This is the core bone of contention between the pure and original form of Anglo-Saxon Free Masonry which requires a belief in God and the immortality of souls, and the Moderns, which does not. On the contrary.

They say that they are happy with "A supreme being", which means anything and nothing, Dei Sive Natura. The invented Moderns rituals (including JAH-BUL-ON) are the rituals of the Invisible College of The Rosicrucian Brotherhood, not Free Masonry at all, which is deeply religious.

The rank and file of the Moderns form of freemasonry have not a clue what they are into, and when it is shown to them, they either stick their heads in the sand, or become aggressive or offensive. Not all of them, but a vociferous minority. Most couldn't care less, "Where is the bar?"

[dawnismygoddess]

I thought the tetragrammaton meant 4 lettered word. True, Jehovah is one but only when spelt YHVH.

Ah ha.....but what does the tetragrammaton embroil symbolically but the essence of THREE:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/InvertedRedPentagram/Tetragrammaton_at_RomanCatholic_Chu.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/InvertedRedPentagram/Tetragrammaton_at_5th_Chapel_of_the.jpg

[grandsecretary]

That is why the equilateral triangle, an equal or perfect three-sided symbol, is the ancient symbol for Gods and Godesses.

[dawnismygoddess]

Yes sir!

[nihil]

JAH = Jahweh, the God of the Hebrews.
BUL = Baal, the ancient Canaanite fertility god associated with 'licentious rites of imitative magic'.
ON = Osiris, the Ancient Egyptian god of the underworld.

... as previously stated by hierophant

[marpat]

Why would On be Orisis? the Egyptian name for Osiris is Asur. I am sure that On actually refers to the sun god whereas Osiris is a moon god.

It seems to me that a lot of the theories put about are nothing more than gross distortions of historical ideas that are then blended together to give a totally different meaning.

[dawnismygoddess]

Yeppers.


If you want to take it to a whole 'nother level, here's a clue:


~ Solomon ~

[marpat]

JAH = Jahweh, the God of the Hebrews.
BUL = Baal, the ancient Canaanite fertility god associated with 'licentious rites of imitative magic'.
ON = Osiris, the Ancient Egyptian god of the underworld.

... as previously stated by hierophant

Actually the ancient Egyptian worshipped a moon god called Yah. Here is a link:

http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/yah.htm

[grandsecretary]

nihil, I get the JAH - Jahweh, I get the BUL - or Baal, but how do you get from ON to Osiris please?

[grandsecretary]

Actually the ancient Egyptian worshipped a moon god called Yah. Here is a link:

http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/yah.htm

The reference to the Moon God "Arma" is used elsewhere in the Moderns Royal Arch ceremonies where one of the kings (known as Principals) takes his seat, repeating the words "Arma Ruami", so I don't believe that it would also be used in JAH-BUL-ON. Arma Ruami is also a reference to Mary Magdalen.

[grandsecretary]

Why would On be Orisis? the Egyptian name for Osiris is Asur. I am sure that On actually refers to the sun god whereas Osiris is a moon god.

It seems to me that a lot of the theories put about are nothing more than gross distortions of historical ideas that are then blended together to give a totally different meaning.

I can't quite figure this one out though. On to Osiris. Same reason. The Moon God is referred to elsewhere in the same ceremony.

What may help is that a similar word is used elsewhere in a higher degree ceremony of the Moderns system - "JAHABULON", with an extra "A" in the middle.

PS: The English Moderns rituals say that the word is a "compound name" for God in the Assyrian (or Syriac), Chaldean and Hebrew languages. In America they claim that it is Hebrew, Babylonian and Egyptian. Egyptian words for Osiris are Asar, Aser, Ausar, Ausir, Wesir, Usir, Usire, Ausare, no ON.

[dawnismygoddess]

nihil, I get the JAH - Jahweh, I get the BUL - or Baal, but how do you get from ON to Osiris please?

It doesn't have anything to do with Osiris.

I believe it has to do with the ancient Egyptian city of On (Heliopolis). The city of the Sun.

Heliopolis - meaning "sun city" in Ancient Greek. And we all know how the Sun relates to ancient cultures, Gods, etc.

[grandsecretary]

It doesn't have anything to do with Osiris.

I believe it has to do with the ancient Egyptian city of On (Heliopolis). The city of the Sun.

Heliopolis - meaning "sun city" in Ancient Greek. And we all know how the Sun relates to ancient cultures, Gods, etc.

Yes, I tend to agree with you on this one.

[dawnismygoddess]

Continuing with that thought, I guess nobody picked up on Solomon, when I posted it.

Solomon basically being "Sun, Sun, Sun" in three different languages....

[nihil]

.

Masonic definition of a Supreme Being,

The True and Living God,

The Most High,

The Almighty,

DIABOLON .

.

[grandsecretary]

.

Masonic definition of a Supreme Being,

The True and Living God,

The Most High,

The Almighty,

DIABOLON .



No, I have never seen the word DIABOLON. I am afraid that this is a prejudice looking for a home.

[nihil]

Ok, GS... What about the

Sun, Sun, Sun

Option ??

[grandsecretary]

Ok, GS... What about the

Sun, Sun, Sun

Option ??

Oh, the Sun and the Moon are both referred to in the rituals of the Moderns, and very prominently. Perhaps we could be told by dawnismygoddess which three languages we are talking about? Very possible IMHO, although against this theory, Muslims will tell you that Solomon converted Sun worshippers to Islam and the prophet Allah.

[nihil]

Albert Pike says:

No man or body of men can make me accept as a sacred word, as a symbol of the infinite and eternal Godhead, a mongrel word, in part composed of the name of an accursed and beastly heathen god, whose name has been for more than two thousand years an appellation of the Devil.

Source: The Holy Triad, Washington 1873

[grandsecretary]

Albert Pike says:

No man or body of men can make me accept as a sacred word, as a symbol of the infinite and eternal Godhead, a mongrel word, in part composed of the name of an accursed and beastly heathen god, whose name has been for more than two thousand years an appellation of the Devil.

Source: The Holy Triad, Washington 1873

Did he now? I wonder why he said that? Did he explain his thinking or did he do his usual, just repeat what someone else said before him? I would like to see what he meant.

[dawnismygoddess]

You bet.


Solomon = Sol (Latin) Om (Hindu) On (Egyptian)



Sol Invictus:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/InvertedRedPentagram/Mithras-solinvictus.jpg

[hierophant]

It doesn't have anything to do with Osiris.

I believe it has to do with the ancient Egyptian city of On (Heliopolis). The city of the Sun.

Heliopolis - meaning "sun city" in Ancient Greek. And we all know how the Sun relates to ancient cultures, Gods, etc.



yep, i'd also agree on that. i think it especially refers to amon (=amun re, ra), the egyptian sun god and main deity of theben in the old kingdom and/or aton, the god of pharao akhenaton in the new kingdom.

[nihil]

The Sol-Om-On option is clever indeed .

Jahbulon, or the aboriginal deity Atum, was ‘The Rock That Begot’ symbolised as an Obelisk.

‘jabalon’ in Arab Lands mean hill or mountain, as the Temple Hill of the Sun at Heliopolis (ON), as an obelisk, as the Pillar of Heaven.

It continued the cult of Terrestial-Phallicism, started by Nimrod and his Tower of Babel, and seen as the BenBen stone Obelisk, in the Temple of the Phoenix at Heliopolis (ON).”

Atum, the aboriginal deity and ultimate but hidden godhead, at first alone in the Universe, came into being, symbolised by the primeval serpent in the dark waters of the abyss.

.

Peter Thompkins ‘The Magic of Obelisks’

Hargrave Jennings ‘Phallicism -Celestial & Terrestial’

Runde Clark ‘Symbol and myth in ancient Egypt’

[grandsecretary]

You bet.


Solomon = Sol (Latin) Om (Hindu) On (Egyptian)



Sol Invictus:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/InvertedRedPentagram/Mithras-solinvictus.jpg

Oh dear. Where does Solomon figure in Hinduism, or Hinduism in Free Masonry? Hindus were not allowed to become Moderns freemasons until the time of the Raj and Rudyard Kipling. I have doubts that your Sun Sun Sun theory has validity. Perhaps it is not from the Hindu language but from somewhere else. Worth more research.

[dawnismygoddess]

Oh dear. Where does Solomon figure in Hinduism, or Hinduism in Free Masonry? Hindus were not allowed to become Moderns freemasons until the time of the Raj and Rudyard Kipling. I have doubts that your Sun Sun Sun theory has validity. Perhaps it is not from the Hindu language but from somewhere else. Worth more research.

Yes, it is just a theory. But something tells me that there is a whole lot more where that baby came from. Also, keep in mind that I do not always think of things in the context of Freemasonry, in fact, most of the time I am not.



The Sol-Om-On option is clever indeed .

Jahbulon, or the aboriginal deity Atum, was ‘The Rock That Begot’ symbolised as an Obelisk.

‘jabalon’ in Arab Lands mean hill or mountain, as the Temple Hill of the Sun at Heliopolis (ON), as an obelisk, as the Pillar of Heaven.

It continued the cult of Terrestial-Phallicism, started by Nimrod and his Tower of Babel, and seen as the BenBen stone Obelisk, in the Temple of the Phoenix at Heliopolis (ON).”

Atum, the aboriginal deity and ultimate but hidden godhead, at first alone in the Universe, came into being, symbolised by the primeval serpent in the dark waters of the abyss.

.

Peter Thompkins ‘The Magic of Obelisks’

Hargrave Jennings ‘Phallicism -Celestial & Terrestial’

Runde Clark ‘Symbol and myth in ancient Egypt’


Fascinating. And what did the Obelisk represent in ancient Egypt?

The Sun, Fire, active material, Male, Masculine, Phallus, etc.

[grandsecretary]

yep, i'd also agree on that. i think it especially refers to amon (=amun re, ra), the egyptian sun god and main deity of theben in the old kingdom and/or aton, the god of pharao akhenaton in the new kingdom.

We must remember that these rituals did not exist prior to 1720/1730. The word JAHBULON was not used prior to this period. The Moderns form of freemasonry is strictly a product of the Enlightenment.

Even if we see a connection with words in rituals, there is no actual connection with these ancient civilisations. It was all invented by the Rosicrucians.

[hierophant]

Oh dear. Where does Solomon figure in Hinduism, or Hinduism in Free Masonry? Hindus were not allowed to become Moderns freemasons until the time of the Raj and Rudyard Kipling. I have doubts that your Sun Sun Sun theory has validity. Perhaps it is not from the Hindu language but from somewhere else. Worth more research.

one should also consider that solomon is an anglicized version of the greek version salomon, which in turn derives from the hebrew name shalomo/shelomo/shlomo. i can't see any "on" in there. all i see is babylonian confusion :D

[nihil]

maybe Salomon was a Sailor.

Sail, c'mon !

:)

[dawnismygoddess]

one should also consider that solomon is an anglicized version of the greek version salomon, which in turn derives from the hebrew name shalomo/shelomo/shlomo. i can't see any "on" in there. all i see is babylonian confusion :D

Avenues of research....

[grandsecretary]

Perhaps if we research the people who wrote this stuff, rather than the stuff itself we might get closer to what they were thinking?

What is very clear is that the rituals were merely a vehicle. Masonic ritual is not freemasonry. These rituals were introduced in order to divert the attention of the rank and file away from getting involved in the political upheavals of the day by focusing attention towards esotericism, and in order to embed Germanic Protestantism into the English psyche.

[dawnismygoddess]

Speaking of which, Luther's symbol was the Ross & Cross:



Luther's symbol:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/InvertedRedPentagram/LuthersRoseSymbol_jpg.jpg


Modern Lutheran symbol:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/InvertedRedPentagram/colorseal.jpg


Was Luther a Rosicrucian? If not, he was most certainly influenced by them.

[grandsecretary]

During his lifetime the Invisible College of the Rosicrucian Brotherhood was genuinely a secret society where nobody would admit his membership, but it is generally thought likely that Martin Luther was a Rosicrucian.

[dawnismygoddess]

During his lifetime the Invisible College of the Rosicrucian Brotherhood was genuinely a secret society where nobody would admit his membership, but it is generally thought likely that Martin Luther was a Rosicrucian.

Incredible. And to think that my good Christian parents were such fans.....


Speaking of which, wasn't Bacon also a Rosy? Along with King James and the KJV version of the Bible, would you agree that they had a tremendous influence on the English language?


Also, there is speculation that Bacon was the real Spear-Shaker.....

[grandsecretary]

Incredible. And to think that my good Christian parents were such fans.....


Speaking of which, wasn't Bacon also a Rosy? Along with King James and the KJV version of the Bible, would you agree that they had a tremendous influence on the English language?


Also, there is speculation that Bacon was the real Spear-Shaker.....

Yes, Francis Bacon was a members of the Rosicrucian Brotherhood. He certainly did have a great influence on English culture and language. It is no coincidence that the standard Moderns' "volume of the sacred law" is the King James Bible.

[dawnismygoddess]

Yes, Francis Bacon was a members of the Rosicrucian Brotherhood. He certainly did have a great influence on English culture and language. It is no coincidence that the standard Moderns' "volume of the sacred law" is the King James Bible.

LOL! I never thought of it that way before. What a joke.




In the following images, what do all these men have in common?



Roger Bacon (b. 1214 - d. 1294):
http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/RogerBacon1214-1294.jpg
^ English philosopher and Franciscan friar. Possible ancestor of Sir Francis Bacon, who authored The New Atlantis.



Martin Luther (b. 1483 - d. 1546):
http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/MartinLuther214831546-1.jpg



King James I (b. 1566 - d. 1625):
http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/JamesI1566-1625-1.jpg



Adolf Hitler (b. 1889 - d. 1945):
http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/Hand2.jpg

[grandsecretary]

They all look effeminate?

[flyermay]

All were painted :rolleyes:

[dawnismygoddess]

All were painted :rolleyes:

Yes, all were painted. Which means that they were most likely posing for the artist.

But, more to the point, look at their hands. I find it rather strange. Could be nothing, It's something I stumbled upon whist collecting images over the months.

And the first two may have both been Rose & Cross.

[grandsecretary]

dawnismygoddess. When a Rosicrucian, or a Free Mason poses for a portrait, he does not need to give hand signals, and there is no point in doing so.

Here is a painting of a Free Mason. The message that it is a Masonic subject is the curtain or veil drawn aside;

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q295/grandsecretary/WilliamHerbert-1.jpg

And in this one it is the pair of compasses in his right hand, although even this may only be a reflection of the fact that he was the leading architect of his day.

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q295/grandsecretary/SirChristopherWren.jpg

Even in these cases it is not a message saying, "Look everyone I am a Free Mason". Portraits are meant to record or catch, in paint, the essential character of the subject, for future generations, not existing ones.

We are in danger of going off topic here. Pursuing these hand sign theories in pictures and photographs is not very productive IMHO. It leads us all down blind alleys.

[dawnismygoddess]

Oh, I'm not saying that they are Masons by any means (Hitler? Gimme a break!)


I am just observing, that's all. (sometimes I do a little too much :))

[size_of_light]

Portraits are meant to record or catch, in paint, the essential character of the subject, for future generations, not existing ones.

Like ours, perhaps?

All the finger positions in the paintings dawnis... posted are the same, and awkward and uncomfortable poses. Give it a try.

I don't think the artists would depict the fingers that way to capture the essence of each character over a long sitting, because they wouldn't naturally hold their fingers like that for more than a few fleeting seconds at a time, if at all.

If the curtains are a wink to Freemasonry, why wouldn't those hand signals also be a clue to something esoterically essential and common about all those characters that we're meant to extract from the paintings down the line?

[grandsecretary]

Well keep on observing and look for Masonic props in paintings and not hand signs.

Here is another:

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q295/grandsecretary/SirThomasGresham.jpg

Not the effeminate pose, or the hand, there are Masonic props in this painting.

And here is an etching with the "veil of secrecy" drawn to one side:

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q295/grandsecretary/TableMeeting-1.jpg

[grandsecretary]

Like ours, perhaps?

All the finger positions in the paintings dawnis... posted are the same, and awkward and uncomfortable poses. Give it a try.

I don't think the artists would depict the fingers that way to capture the essence of each character over a long sitting, because they wouldn't naturally hold their fingers like that for more than a few fleeting seconds at a time, if at all.

If the curtains are a wink to Freemasonry, why wouldn't those hand signals also be a clue to something essential and common about all those characters that we're meant to extract from the paintings down the line?

Well that is the easiest question to answer to date. Because those hand poses are meaningless to a Free Mason because, awkward or not, they are simply NOT Masonic or Rosicrucian signs.

Take a look at the number of posed paintings and photographs where women have their hands in similar poses. Hundreds of them.

Honestly, this discussion is pointless. If you want to read things into things that are not there then nobody can stop you, but it really exasperates me. I try to help, with solid information, whenever I can, and this is solid information. Forget secret hand signs in paintings and photographs. Blind alley except where masonic tokens (handshakes) are photographed by accident. It happens, and I promise you that I will tell you if I think that it is such a case.

Why not start another thread. Put your photographs there, and I promise you I will let you know the likelihood of it being a photograph of an exchange of Masonic tokens (handshakes), or Masonic signs (using the hand/s).

JAH-BUL-ON

[dawnismygoddess]

Not the effeminate pose, or the hand, there are Masonic props in this painting

GS - we sort of talked about this many months ago in that Hellfire Club thread.


You have to put yourself in my shoes: outside of looking for something obvious, like a checkerboard floor, or a compass or a square or a plumb line, etc., I do not exactly know what to look for, as far as 'props' in an image are concerned.

I am not a Mason, so you have to understand that I am at a somewhat serious disadvantage here! In fact, it amazes me that I am as good at detecting the things that I do spot.

On the other hand, I feel that you should have a little bit more of an open mind to unorthodox thinking. (although I fully understand your skepticism) At any rate, I do appreciate your willingness to discuss topics openly and to offer your criticisms.




@ size_of_light: That's what I was trying to convey, but GS doesn't agree.

[size_of_light]

Well that is the easiest question to answer to date. Because those hand poses are meaningless to a Free Mason because, awkward or not, they are simply NOT Masonic or Rosicrucian signs.

Take a look at the number of posed paintings and photographs where women have their hands in similar poses. Hundreds of them.

Honestly, this discussion is pointless. If you want to read things into things that are not there then nobody can stop you, but it really exasperates me. I try to help, with solid information, whenever I can, and this is solid information. Forget secret hand signs in paintings and photographs. Blind alley except where masonic tokens (handshakes) are photographed by accident. It happens, and I promise you that I will tell you if I think that it is such a case.

Why not start another thread. Put your photographs there, and I promise you I will let you know the likelihood of it being a photograph of an exchange of Masonic tokens (handshakes), or Masonic signs (using the hand/s).

JAH-BUL-ON


I'm not suggesting they're necessarily Masonic hand signals. I have no idea what they could mean. Perhaps they are, and it's something you're not aware of.

Regardless, it is a contrived pose, and is worthy of note if only in the context you mentioned of artists incorporating clues to the essence of subjects for future generations to come along and decode.

I have no agenda against Freemasonry and I'm not trying to attack or offend you by asking these questions. I appreciate your wealth of knowledge on esoteric subjects like this one and value your input into the thread.

[grandsecretary]

GS - we sort of talked about this many months ago in that Hellfire Club thread.


You have to put yourself in my shoes: outside of looking for something obvious, like a checkerboard floor, or a compass or a square or a plumb line, etc., I do not exactly know what to look for, as far as 'props' in an image are concerned.

I am not a Mason, so you have to understand that I am at a somewhat serious disadvantage here! In fact, it amazes me that I am as good at detecting the things that I do spot.

On the other hand, I feel that you should have a little bit more of an open mind to unorthodox thinking. (although I fully understand your skepticism) At any rate, I do appreciate your willingness to discuss topics openly and to offer your criticisms.




@ size_of_light: That's what I was trying to convey, but GS doesn't agree.

Yes, indeed we did. I promise you that I do have a certain amount of solid information available to me, and I will tell you if a painting or photograph has Masonic or indeed Rosicrucian content. You only have to ask, and of course there are other freemasons, and Rosicrucians on the forum who also know what they are talking about.

Just ask us, and we will tell you. Why shouldn't we?

Many Grand Lodge and other Masonic websites have long lists of "famous freemasons". Seemingly, we can't wait to tell you who is or who is not a freemason.

JAH-BUL-ON?

[dawnismygoddess]

I promise you that I do have a certain amount of solid information available to me, and I will tell you if a painting or photograph has Masonic or indeed Rosicrucian content. You only have to ask, and of course there are other freemasons, and Rosicrucians on the forum who also know what they are talking about.

Just ask us, and we will tell you. Why shouldn't we?

All fair and well.


However, remember a few months back I asked you about that painting of Roger Sherman and you refused to say "yes" or "no" (which I took as a "yes" anyway :D)

[grandsecretary]

Regardless, it is a contrived pose, and is worthy of note if only in the context you mentioned of artists incorporating clues to the essence of subjects for future generations to come along and decode.

I have no agenda against Freemasonry and I'm not trying to attack or offend you by asking these questions. I appreciate your wealth of knowledge on esoteric subjects like this one and value your input into the thread.

I accept both comments:

Contrived pose: art darling, art. Sometimes it's not very good. Hand painting is technically difficult.

No agenda: I accept your word that you do not have an agenda.

My approach to this forum is this. If someone is reasonable I will assist as much as I can. If someone is rude or offensive, I will give as good as I get within due bounds.

Sometimes Gilly (moderator) tells me off (quite rightly) but that goes with the territory, and you have to let your hair down occasionally. :p

JAH-BUL-ON?

[dawnismygoddess]

Yeah, my apologies for hijacking the thread.

Not sure where to pick up....

[size_of_light]

Yeah, my apologies for hijacking the thread.

Not sure where to pick up....

The possible link between Jahbulon and Credo Mutwa's Jabulon, who he asserts is the Chitauli (reptilian) ruler of the underground copper city of Umbaba, located beneath the Rwenzori Mountains in Zaire, Africa.

[dawnismygoddess]

The possible link between Jahbulon and Credo Mutwa's Jabulon, who he asserts is the Chitauli (reptilian) ruler of the underground copper city of Umbaba, located beneath the Rwenzori Mountains in Zaire, Africa.

Who believes this!? (I don't believe in 'reptilians')

[size_of_light]

Who believes this!? (I don't believe in 'reptilians')

Read the OP.

Who are you? What are you doing in this thread?!!! :p ;)

[rowan22]

It occurs to me that the Masons are the inheritors of thousands of years of polarised thinking. If their belief system is the latest incarnation of the Mystery schools of the ancient world then they are labouring under a serious miss apprehension as to the nature of the universe surely?

The Kabala simply transforms an organic multi dimensional experience of spiritual development into a road map of do’s and don’t which is meant to avoid having to feel, lets be honest vulnerable.

The Sephiroth include imagery which is meant to unlock the unconscious latent "doorways" through which the consciousness must past to attain the next levels knowledge and being.

But all this is just pure theatre. The symbolism is the equivalent of the Psychic placebo becoming a vehicle for the ego to transcend its fear of loss of control and experience the ocean of which it is a part but thinks itself above.

The belief systems which employ such inflated anaesthesia to avoid feeling pain render their own so called system of development no more than a self fulfilling prophecy of repetition. Going around and around on the same wheel refusing to experience the very thing which will unite them and end their agony of empty searching for a power who demands surrender to yourself and not subjugation to anything, most of all not to the antithesis of visceral being.

[dawnismygoddess]

Read the OP.

Who are you? What are you doing in this thread?!!! :p ;)

Hey now, I've made some valuable contributions. :D

[size_of_light]

Hey now, I've made some valuable contributions. :D

On a sidenote, have you considered compiling all of your 'hand signal' paintings into a single thread?

We could all try to figure out what the hell the various artists are trying to communicate to us by consistently painting that same crazy, unnatural pose.

[dawnismygoddess]

On a sidenote, have you considered compiling all of your 'hand signal' paintings into a single thread?

We could all try to figure out what the hell the various artists are trying to communicate to us by consistently painting that same, crazy, unnatural pose.

Uh, not really. I think it's pretty predictive what would happen - all the Masons would rally against me and try to make me look like a fool.


I feel that I have other, more solid topics to discuss that can not really be assaulted by them.

[size_of_light]

Uh, not really. I think it's pretty predictive what would happen - all the Masons would rally against me and try to make me look like a fool.

Post it in another sub-forum. It might not be a Masonic thing at all, and we'll never know unless we look at it from a much broader perspective than that.

[hobo]

Hi guys.

I've got a thread going on solar eclipses here: http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1201677&posted=1#post1201677 and the name 'Jabulon' came up in connection to an underground 'Copper City' in Africa, which is ruled by a reptilian of that name.

This is what Credo Mutwa has to say:

Jabulon, sir, is a very strange god. He is supposed to be the leader of the Chitauli. He is a god, to my great surprise, which I find certain groups of White people, especially, worshipping. We have known about Jabulon for many, many centuries, we Black people. But I am surprised that there are White people who worship this god, and these people, amongst them are people whom many have blamed for all the things that have happened on this Earth, namely, the Freemason people. We believe that Jabulon is the leader of the Chitauli. He is the Old One. And one of his names, in the African language, sir, is Umbaba-Samahongo-“the lord king, the great father of the terrible eyes”-because we believe that Jabulon has got one eye which, if he opens it, you die if he looks at you.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=97

According to Wikipedia, in a Masonic context:

Jahbulon (or Jabulon) is a word which was used historically in some rituals of Royal Arch Masonry. According to Francis X. King, it is also used in Ordo Templi Orientis rituals.

There has been much debate over the origin and meaning of this word. There is no consensus even among Masonic researchers as to its meaning or legitimacy: one Masonic scholar alleges that the word first appeared in an early 18th Century Royal Arch ritual as the name of an allegorical explorer searching for the ruins of King Solomon's Temple; another Masonic scholar believes it is a descriptive name for God in Hebrew; other, non-Masonic, authors have alleged that it is a Masonic name for God, and even the name of a unique "Masonic God", despite repeated statements by Freemasonry's officials that "There is no separate Masonic God", nor a separate proper name for a deity in any branch of Freemasonry.[1][2] It is this interpretation of a "Masonic God" that has led to debates about and condemnation of Freemasonry by several religious groups. In England, no ritual containing the name has been in official Masonic use since February 1989. [3]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jahbulon

Can I ask what you guys make of 'Jahbulon' from the perspective of your understanding of Freemasonry, and secondly, what do you think about Credo Mutwa connecting the word to the name of the ruler of this alleged underground city in Africa?

Thanks.

If you consult Juri Lina ( The author of "architects of deception") you will see a depiction of this abominable creature on the cover of that book. He writes in detail about the freemasons and as far as I remember, Jahbulon is a "deity" they pledge their allegiance to. They only get to know who or what they actually are worshipping when they reach a certain high degree of "initiation"...

[hobo]

There is a link here to Juri Linas "emissiarys of Jahbulon" : http://wideeyecinema.com/?p=258

[size_of_light]

There is a link here to Juri Linas "emissiarys of Jahbulon" : http://wideeyecinema.com/?p=258

Am downloading it now. Thank you.

[thelonious]

That's like saying the hexagram found in Golden Dawn is not like a hexagram found in Scottish Rite. At some level, it's really all one and the same.

Same difference.

Not at all. The hexagram is a universal symbol, whereas "Jahbulon" is almost certainly a corruption of a word used in old French Masonic rituals. It is not an important aspect of Freemasonry.

[size_of_light]

Not at all. The hexagram is a universal symbol, whereas "Jahbulon" is almost certainly a corruption of a word used in old French Masonic rituals. It is not an important aspect of Freemasonry.

Do you know what the word was?

[grandsecretary]

It occurs to me that the Masons are the inheritors of thousands of years of polarised thinking. If their belief system is the latest incarnation of the Mystery schools of the ancient world then they are labouring under a serious miss apprehension as to the nature of the universe surely?

The Kabala simply transforms an organic multi dimensional experience of spiritual development into a road map of do’s and don’t which is meant to avoid having to feel, lets be honest vulnerable.

The Sephiroth include imagery which is meant to unlock the unconscious latent "doorways" through which the consciousness must past to attain the next levels knowledge and being.

But all this is just pure theatre. The symbolism is the equivalent of the Psychic placebo becoming a vehicle for the ego to transcend its fear of loss of control and experience the ocean of which it is a part but thinks itself above.

The belief systems which employ such inflated anaesthesia to avoid feeling pain render their own so called system of development no more than a self fulfilling prophecy of repetition. Going around and around on the same wheel refusing to experience the very thing which will unite them and end their agony of empty searching for a power who demands surrender to yourself and not subjugation to anything, most of all not to the antithesis of visceral being.

Well rest easy. The Moderns form of freemasonry (the biggest now) was invented, from scratch from 1717 onwards, and for the reasons stated earlier. They may draw upon the Ancient Mystery schools, and elsewhere for their "playlets" but they are certainly not inheritors of anything other than the Rosicrucianism of the Enlightenment years.

The direct links lay elsewhere.

[grandsecretary]

Do you know what the word was?

thelonius, I have very grave doubts about this. The French rituals post Moderns, use the word JAH-BUL-ON, but the rituals of La Grande Loge, Paris, c.1718, which preceded the Moderns form of freemasonry in France, did not.

I would welcome some evidence for your claim.

[marpat]

You bet.


Solomon = Sol (Latin) Om (Hindu) On (Egyptian)



Sol Invictus:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/InvertedRedPentagram/Mithras-solinvictus.jpg

But the Sanskrit term Aum (which you write as Om) is the sound of primal creation so why is that specifically related to the sun? In Hindu mythology the sun god is not the creator.

Aum is the seed mantra of the brow chakra which is related to consciousness.

[grandsecretary]

But the Sanskrit term Aum (which you write as Om) is the sound of primal creation so why is that specifically related to the sun? In Hindu mythology the sun god is not the creator.

Aum is the seed mantra of the brow chakra which is related to consciousness.

I agree with this and as I said earlier I doubt an India/Hindu connection in respect of this theory - Solomon/Sunsunsun.

[nihil]

Surja is the Hindu term for Sun.

Theory dis-ban-ded .

[thelonious]

Do you know what the word was?

Masonic scholar Arturo DeHoyos has theorized that it is derived from "Jabulum", a fictional character who appeared in one of the old degrees in the French Rite of Perfection.

[keystone]

The French rituals post Moderns, use the word JAH-BUL-ON, but the rituals of La Grande Loge, Paris, c.1718, which preceded the Moderns form of freemasonry in France, did not.Why could you not have said:

Recent French rituals use the word JAH-BUL-ON, but the rituals of La Grande Loge, Paris, c.1718, did not.

It amounts to exactly the same thing. You have conveyed the data you wanted to.

I value and respect your immense store of masonic knowledge, GS, but the recent incessant drip drip drip about "moderns" with the accompanying (if sometimes unspoken) implication every time that the UGLAE holds the only key to the only authentic and certainly the oldest free masonry is becoming a little bit tiresome. At best it seems damned disrespectful and at worst it may just be designed to inflame. It is quite possible to have a sensible and meanigful debate without it. Is it possible you could either just tone it down or better still just cease and desist?

I realise you probably won't take the slightest bit of notice of this request but at least I've got it off my chest.

Cheers

[size_of_light]

Masonic scholar Arturo DeHoyos has theorized that it is derived from "Jabulum", a fictional character who appeared in one of the old degrees in the French Rite of Perfection.

What are fictional characters like this one meant to represent?

[grandsecretary]

Why could you not have said:

Recent French rituals use the word JAH-BUL-ON, but the rituals of La Grande Loge, Paris, c.1718, did not.

It amounts to exactly the same thing. You have conveyed the data you wanted to.

I value and respect your immense store of masonic knowledge, GS, but the recent incessant drip drip drip about "moderns" with the accompanying (if sometimes unspoken) implication every time that the UGLAE holds the only key to the only authentic and certainly the oldest free masonry is becoming a little bit tiresome. At best it seems damned disrespectful and at worst it may just be designed to inflame. It is quite possible to have a sensible and meanigful debate without it. Is it possible you could either just tone it down or better still just cease and desist?

I realise you probably won't take the slightest bit of notice of this request but at least I've got it off my chest.

Cheers

I can only answer the questions, and provide information so that all here (Mostly non-Masons and anti-Masons) may increase their knowledge and understanding of Free Masonry. If you see anything that you disagree with then please feel free to say so, but silencing those who do not agree with you is not an option.

The Society and Fraternity of Free Masons (La Grande Loge) was established in Paris (c.1719) by Charles Ratcliffe (the Earl of Derwentwater), a Free Mason and a Jacobite exile. He, together with Chevalier Maskelyne and M. d'Henquelty inaugurated the first French Masonic Lodge in Paris in the rue Boucheries-St Germain.

"... most impartial historians assert that from 1720 to 1725 Freemasonry was clandestinely introduced into France by some English Masons." (SOURCE: Report made to the Grand Orient of France, contained in the Journal, La Globe, tome I., p.324, 1838)

"... we are compelled to admit the naked fact, that there was an English lodge in Paris in 1725. There is no evidence that this lodge was at that date or very soon afterwards constituted by the Grand Lodge at London." (SOURCE: History of Freemasonry by Albert Gallatin Mackey, Chapter XXXVIII)

Complain to the historian of the Grand Orient of France and the estate of Albert Mackey. Don't shoot the messenger.

[marpat]

Surja is the Hindu term for Sun.

Theory dis-ban-ded .

But Aum is not the mantra associated with Surya. Neither is it written aum or om in the original sanskrit character

[marpat]

I agree with this and as I said earlier I doubt an India/Hindu connection in respect of this theory - Solomon/Sunsunsun.

Not only that but Hebrew words do not have vowels as in western languages so when people claim solomon has sun words it is only because those vowels have actually been inserted purely for pronunciation.

Personally I think many of these ideas are a load of bollocks. I think one major problem is that many of these theories are created by people with little or no knowledge of esoteric subjects and cannot see the faults in their own ideas. Another major problem is that followers of conspiracy writers are often as ignorant as the people they follow and just accept what is written as fact. There are so many examples of such errors and fault and it is getting boring to actually have to remind people of such errors.

[nihil]

Aum, the primordial creative sound, is omnicomprehensive and could be related to the
Schumann Resonance of our modern Science .

[size_of_light]

Personally I think many of these ideas are a load of bollocks. I think one major problem is that many of these theories are created by people with little or no knowledge of esoteric subjects and cannot see the faults in their own ideas. Another major problem is that followers of conspiracy writers are often as ignorant as the people they follow and just accept what is written as fact. There are so many examples of such errors and fault and it is getting boring to actually have to remind people of such errors.

What are your thoughts on what Credo Mutwa said, as quoted in the OP?

[grandsecretary]

Not only that but Hebrew words do not have vowels as in western languages so when people claim solomon has sun words it is only because those vowels have actually been inserted purely for pronunciation.

Personally I think many of these ideas are a load of bollocks. I think one major problem is that many of these theories are created by people with little or no knowledge of esoteric subjects and cannot see the faults in their own ideas. Another major problem is that followers of conspiracy writers are often as ignorant as the people they follow and just accept what is written as fact. There are so many examples of such errors and fault and it is getting boring to actually have to remind people of such errors.

But it stimulates thought and conversation, and affords those who do know something useful to offer assistance and education to others, if they are so minded.

We must remember that the Moderns form of freemasonry was self started in 1717 by about three or four low level Free Masons who fell out with Sir Christopher Wren because he withdrew his considerable financial support, and non-Mason (profane) Rosicrucians.

These people did not have access to key Masonic rituals which at that time were not written down, for instance "The Master's Part". So they drew upon their esoteric knowledge and anti-Catholic prejudices, and made up what they did not know, or could not remember.

There is no connection as such between the Moderns system of freemasonry and the actual Ancient religions or mysteries.

Freemasonry at that time was fundamentally changed in order to place power in the hands of the Hanoverian Dynasty and to distract men of influence away from engaging in political intrigue.

[nihil]

Here's an excerpt from:

Christianity, Masonry not compatible. Definitions of God pose fundamental difference.
[03/13/93, The Press-Enterprise Riverside, CA]

Regarding the identity of God, in Scottish Rite Masonry, the 13th degree is that of the Royal Arch.
In it, the alleged true, previously hidden name of God is revealed as Jabulum.

"The Encyclopedia of Freemasonry," affirms this, under the entry for Jabulum; in the definition of Bel, it says, "Bel is the contracted form of Baal, worshipped by the Babylonians and was introduced, with Jah and Oh, into the Royal Arch system as a representative of the name of God. Jah represents the name Jehovah, Bel represents Baal, and Oh represents Osiris.

Jim Shaw, former 33 Degree Mason, says that Masonry is not based on the Bible referred to as "The Great Light", but on the Kabbalah

Cabala


a medieval book of mysticism and magic. Masonic authority Henry Wilson Coil admits that the Kabala's teachings can be seen in some of the mystical and philosophical degrees of Masonry.

Albert Pike, the man responsible for the re-estabilished Scottish Rite degrees into their actual form, said that the Masonic search-after-light leads directly back to the Kabala, the ultimate source of Masonic beliefs. See: Morals and Dogma .
.

For we can do nothing against the truth, but for the truth (2 Corinthians 13:8)

[marpat]

What are your thoughts on what Credo Mutwa said, as quoted in the OP?

Well people should investigate Credos claim rather than accepting it outright. Personally I dont really believe what he is saying as I get the feeling that he is giving information that people want to hear. If you do a search for African mythology and jahbulon you will find that it only seems to pull up conspiracy/ anti mason sites. Why trust Credo anyway? he claims mason do evil rituals but it is a know fact that zulu shamen use blood sacrifice for many reasons, which a bit of research will bear out.

As for that name being part of OTO rituals I would be interested to know which ones. I have been to a few and never heard it. I do have a book that contains loads of OTO rituals so I will check that for references.

Here is a link to African gods and their associations. I cannot see jahbulon mentioned so if it was known about in Africa ages ago then you would think it would be part of their general culture:

http://www.mythome.org/africang.html

[nihil]

‘Jah-Bul-On,’ the so-called secret name of God, is probably Jabulum, incorrectly copied
which, as I have shown, meant ‘the product of, that which proceeded, issued or emanated from Om.’

It is compounded of Yu or Yah-u, Baal or Bal or Bel, and Om, thus combining the names of the Hebrew, Phoenician and Hindu Deities.”

Albert Pike, The Book of the Words (Kessinger Publishing), p. 151 .


.
No Christian should have any part in a ritual that honors or glorifies a pagan deity.

.

[marpat]

‘Jah-Bul-On,’ the so-called secret name of God, is probably Jabulum, incorrectly copied
which, as I have shown, meant ‘the product of, that which proceeded, issued or emanated from Om.’

It is compounded of Yu or Yah-u, Baal or Bal or Bel, and Om, thus combining the names of the Hebrew, Phoenician and Hindu Deities.”

Albert Pike, The Book of the Words (Kessinger Publishing), p. 151 .


.
No Christian should have any part in a ritual that honors or glorifies a pagan deity.

.

I doubt it. Aum is not written as you wish it to be, in convenient Roman lettering. Yah is also and Egyptian moon god.

Christian religion is taken from pagan myths and Jesus himself is nothing but an amalgamation of pagan gods.

[marpat]

I have had a quick search of African mythology and find no reference to Umbaba-Samahongo apart from being mentioned by Credo, which leads my to conclude that he is bull shitting. I think the real problem is that people want to believe Icke represents the truth and to be taken in by such a person as Credo is an attack on his credibility to recognise truth. This then causes a division in his fans minds which they overcome by accpeting his viewpoint.

By all means if people can produce links to pages on African mythology that actually back up what Credo says then please give me the links. I think people really need to investigate Credos claims and compare what he says with African mythology.

[size_of_light]

Well people should investigate Credos claim rather than accepting it outright.

Hence this thread.


Personally I dont really believe what he is saying as I get the feeling that he is giving information that people want to hear. If you do a search for African mythology and jahbulon you will find that it only seems to pull up conspiracy/ anti mason sites. Why trust Credo anyway? he claims mason do evil rituals but it is a know fact that zulu shamen use blood sacrifice for many reasons, which a bit of research will bear out.

He comes across to me as a very polite, dignified and honest man, albeit a slightly eccentric one at times.

I don't personally get the feeling he's telling people what they want to hear: he's been speaking about this and presenting it to Westerners since he was a much, much younger man and long before David Icke came onto the scene.

That a search of 'African mythology' and 'Jahbulon' only brings up conspiracy/anti-masonic results could very likely be because they're all based on the information that came out of the interview with him I posted in the OP. How many other voices from Africa who hold this kind of esoteric knowledge have the opportunity to be heard and referenced by Google?


As for that name being part of OTO rituals I would be interested to know which ones. I have been to a few and never heard it. I do have a book that contains loads of OTO rituals so I will check that for references.

That would be much appreciated.


Here is a link to African gods and their associations. I cannot see jahbulon mentioned so if it was known about in Africa ages ago then you would think it would be part of their general culture:

http://www.mythome.org/africang.html

Will have a look at this. Thanks.

[nihil]

ALBERT G. MACKEY

In the ENCYCLOPEDIA OF FREEMASONRY, for your knowledge, it is stated that:

Gebal is a city in ancient Phonecia. Inhabitants were called Giblites or Giblimites and they were stone-squarers - 1st Kings 18.

The French spelling took Giblim and went to Jiblime, then to Jibulum to Jabulum (See RAM).

.
Let us follow this linguistic corruption

Ghiblim > Giblim > Gibalim > Chibbelum > Jiblime > Jibulum > Jabulum and then Jubellum
.

In "The Encyclopedia of Freemasonry," page 359, under the entry for Jabulum, we find a possible explanation .

Masons manufactured the titles Jabelum , Jabulum .
These are many distortions of the word Jubelom, one of the Three Ruffians ...

Allegories abound with these three who chose to agree, but, on the wrong side.

.
The three ruffians would be the three courts that put Jesus on trial:

- Sanhedrin Court (Jubela)

- Herod's Court (Jubelo) and

- Pilate's court (Jubelum).

.
The total could be rendered - Religious Court (Sanhedrin)

- Political Court (Herod's Court) and - Social Court, as in social disorder, Pilate's.

.
Their instruments could be rendered - Sanhedrin Court: Plumb

- Herod's Court: Square

- Pilate's Court: Level.

.
On Jesus' back we find a scarlet robe, color of shame (prostitution)

on Jesus' head a thorny crown (royalty)

and on Jesus' shoulders a cross (mitre).
.

[marpat]

Hence this thread.



He comes across to me as a very polite, dignified and honest man, albeit a slightly eccentric one at times.

I don't personally get the feeling he's telling people what they want to hear: he's been speaking about this and presenting it to Westerners since he was a much, much younger man and long before David Icke came onto the scene.

That a search of 'African mythology' and 'Jahbulon' only brings up conspiracy/anti-masonic results could very likely be because they're all based on the information that came out of the interview with him I posted in the OP. How many other voices from Africa who hold this kind of esoteric knowledge have the opportunity to be heard and referenced by Google?



That would be much appreciated.



Will have a look at this. Thanks.

I dont think being polite and dignified actually makes a difference. You will find many politicians who can come across like this, etc.

So do you have any older sources of information by Credo that dates back to his youth?

[lightgiver]

I doubt it. Aum is not written as you wish it to be, in convenient Roman lettering. Yah is also and Egyptian moon god.

Christian religion is taken from pagan myths and Jesus himself is nothing but an amalgamation of pagan gods.

http://www.thenazareneway.com/

http://www.tofm.org/LIBRARY/SUNDAY%20WORSHIP/sun_worship.htm

http://www.sabbatarian.com/Paganism/Constantine.html

Om - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Marpat putting his little spin on things as usual.

[marpat]

I stand corrected. In 'OTO Rituals and Sex Magic' jahbulon is actually mentioned in refrence to the IV degree.

[marpat]

http://www.thenazareneway.com/

http://www.tofm.org/LIBRARY/SUNDAY%20WORSHIP/sun_worship.htm

http://www.sabbatarian.com/Paganism/Constantine.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aum

Marpat putting his little spin on things as usual.

What are you talking about?

Quote from a page you linked which backs up my post:

"Constantine, Early Ecumenist"


Before you read the following, please try to understand, Christianity has always been pagan, and Christians worship a non-existent savior with a Greek name called Jesus (IHSOUS). The Greek Jesus never existed, but the Jewish Messiah, Yahshua, did exist. The anti-Hebrew Greek gentiles invented a Sun god named Jesus based on the writings and true life of Messiah Yahshua. Messiah Yahshua was only a human, but was "Set Apart" by Yahweh as the prophesied Messiah. Therefore, Christianity is nothing more than a (anti-Messiah anti-Hebrew, anti-Semitic) pagan religion and another term for "Universalism" (catholicism)!

[nihil]

Jabulum > Diabulum

[nihil]

‘Jah-Bul-On,’ the so-called secret name of God, is probably Jabulum, incorrectly copied
which, as I have shown, meant ‘the product of, that which proceeded, issued or emanated from Om.’

It is compounded of Yu or Yah-u, Baal or Bal or Bel, and Om, thus combining the names of the Hebrew, Phoenician and Hindu Deities.”



I doubt it.



My QUOTE is from:

Albert Pike, The Book of the Words (Kessinger Publishing), p. 151 .

It's his fault, not mine .

[keystone]

I can only answer the questions, and provide information so that all here (Mostly non-Masons and anti-Masons) may increase their knowledge and understanding of Free Masonry.I agree entirely.

If you see anything that you disagree with then please feel free to say so, but silencing those who do not agree with you is not an option.I do. No - don't make me the bad guy thank you. Where did I say anything about silencing you? No way.

Don't shoot the messenger.I didn't. I'm not.

[marpat]

Jabulum > Diabulum

Any chance of a real explanation or did you pull that out of your ass?

[marpat]

My QUOTE is from:

Albert Pike, The Book of the Words (Kessinger Publishing), p. 151 .

It's his fault, not mine .

I am reading a full lecture on what the word means right now, not just the tiny fragment that people seem to constantly quote in here.

[lightgiver]

What are you talking about?

Quote from a page you linked which backs up my post:

"Constantine, Early Ecumenist"


Before you read the following, please try to understand, Christianity has always been pagan, and Christians worship a non-existent savior with a Greek name called Jesus (IHSOUS). The Greek Jesus never existed, but the Jewish Messiah, Yahshua, did exist. The anti-Hebrew Greek gentiles invented a Sun god named Jesus based on the writings and true life of Messiah Yahshua. Messiah Yahshua was only a human, but was "Set Apart" by Yahweh as the prophesied Messiah. Therefore, Christianity is nothing more than a (anti-Messiah anti-Hebrew, anti-Semitic) pagan religion and another term for "Universalism" (catholicism)!

Err what are you talking about :rolleyes:

http://www.thenazareneway.com/

Om or aum.

Does back up nowt mate.

[size_of_light]

I dont think being polite and dignified actually makes a difference. You will find many politicians who can come across like this, etc.

I think he has an indefinable quality of deep spiritual character and integrity that is in stark contrast to the transparent masquerades of public decency that politicians engage in.

So do you have any older sources of information by Credo that dates back to his youth?

This is a link to an online preview of a David Hatcher Childress book on the mysteries of Africa:

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=...20zaire&f=true

Credo appears in the photo section of one chapter as a young man, holding a chart of esoteric African symbols.

Because of the Google coding, I couldn't copy and save the photo, and I didn't take a screenshot of it at the time, but I'll try to dig it out at a later date and post it here. I don't expect you to go searching for it yourself, so you'll have to take my word for it right now that it's there.

Beyond that captioned photo (which tells the story I told) I don't have any more information on his earlier efforts, but I'll look into it and likewise post any extra info I find.

[lightgiver]

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/8240/tc2jahbulon1.jpg (http://img20.imageshack.us/i/tc2jahbulon1.jpg/)

[nihil]

JABULUM > DIABULUM
.
JA is a palatalized phoneme, hence DIA .

.

Lovely Yours, Nihil .

[marpat]

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/8240/tc2jahbulon1.jpg (http://img20.imageshack.us/i/tc2jahbulon1.jpg/)

Falsehood. Are buddhists supposed to spread falsehoods?

That is the spirit bael from the lesser key of solomon.

[nihil]

I am reading a full lecture on what the word means right now, not just the tiny fragment that people seem to constantly quote in here.

Just Do Your Homework .

[marpat]

Just Do Your Homework .

At least I can access the real lecture rather than using crap speculations.

[lightgiver]

Falsehood. Are buddhists supposed to spread falsehoods?

That is the spirit bael from the lesser key of solomon.

You spread enough:rolleyes:

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/6451/abraxas.jpg (http://img21.imageshack.us/i/abraxas.jpg/)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7652891847477492406

Watch this folks.

[marpat]

You spread enough:rolleyes:


Watch this folks.

So you are using that as a justification for being a liar?

What has abrasax got to do with anything in this thread?

If you are going to debate then use something informative and relevant will you

We should post pics of the wrathful deities of your religion, they look demonic too, especially when they are pictured drinking from skulls, etc.

[lightgiver]

So you are using that as a justification for being a liar?

What has abrasax got to do with anything in this thread?

If you are going to debate then use something informative and relevant will you

The thread is about Jahbulon.

and I posted Jahbulon.

Hello.

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/8240/tc2jahbulon1.jpg (http://img20.imageshack.us/i/tc2jahbulon1.jpg/)

Just in case you missed it.

Now make your mind up.

Lyrics of song mentioning Jahbulon from King, Francis, The Secret Rituals of the O.T.O. (ibid):

How the Simple Mason plies
Tool to Temple, See it rise!
Princes of Jerusalem,
How we mock and scoff at them!

Boaz broken,
Jachin gone,
Freely spoken
Jahbulon,
All above
Is overthrown
For the love
Of Babalon.

JEHOVAH. Of the varieties of this sacred name in use among the different nations of the earth, three particularly merit the attention of Royal Arch Masons:
1. JAH. This name of God is found in the 68th Psalm, v. 4.
2. BAAL OR BEL. This word signifies a lord, master, or possessor, and hence it was applied by many of the nations of the East to denote the Lord of all things, and the Master of the world.
3. ON. This was the name by which JEHOVAH was worshipped among the Egyptians.
I have made these remarks on the three names of God in Chaldaic, Syriac and Egyptian, Baal, Jah, and On, in the expectation that my Royal Arch Companions will readily recognize them in a corrupted form.--Lexicon. From footnote 226:1 in ROYAL ARCH, OR SEVENTH DEGREE Duncan's Masonic Ritual and Monitor, by Malcolm C. Duncan, 1866

[nihil]

Wicked, and a little racist... spotted the long nose ?!

:o

[marpat]

The thread is about Jahbulon.

and I posted Jahbulon.

Hello.

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/8240/tc2jahbulon1.jpg (http://img20.imageshack.us/i/tc2jahbulon1.jpg/)

Just in case you missed it.

Now make your mind up.

Lyrics of song mentioning Jahbulon from King, Francis, The Secret Rituals of the O.T.O. (ibid):

How the Simple Mason plies
Tool to Temple, See it rise!
Princes of Jerusalem,
How we mock and scoff at them!

Boaz broken,
Jachin gone,
Freely spoken
Jahbulon,
All above
Is overthrown
For the love
Of Babalon.

Again I call you a liar. Read the lesser key of solomon and you will find that what you posted is bael. I think you just dont want to believe it.

I have a full lecture in fron of me that completely describes what jahbulon is and it is far more that people are posting.

[nihil]

For the Love
Of Babalon.

The Great Harlot.

...I still miss Dating her ;)
.

See: The Tarots

.

[lightgiver]

It appears marpat back in 2008 is still discussing it and making denials.:rolleyes::D and just likes to name call and ridicule when he is wrong,typical marpat.

Hidden Hand of the Men of Jahbulon,

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=418252

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ snore snore snore,no war games to attend.????????????

[size_of_light]

Boaz broken,
Jachin gone,
Freely spoken
Jahbulon,
All above
Is overthrown
For the love
Of Babalon.


I knew it.

Phonetics never lie.

[marpat]

For the Love
Of Babalon.

The Great Harlot.

...I still miss Dating her ;)
.

See: The Tarots

.

The whore because she doesn't reject any people!!!

[lightgiver]

Only 1 liar here.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29553

[marpat]

It appears marpat back in 2008 is still discussing it and making denials.:rolleyes::D and just likes to name call and ridicule when he is wrong,typical marpat.

Hidden Hand of the Men of Jahbulon,

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=418252

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ snore snore snore,no war games to attend.????????????

Are you a total cock or what? a couple of pages back I said I was wrong and that the name DOES appear in rituals. Maybe you should try reading what people post but its probably hard when you are stoned.

Who would have thought that i might have changed my mind since 2008?

[size_of_light]

The whore because she doesn't reject any people!!!

I like her already.

What's the going rate?

[marpat]

I knew it.

Phonetics never lie.

Is that like Icke and Kyke?

[lightgiver]

Are you a total cock or what? a couple of pages back I said I was wrong and that the name DOES appear in rituals. Maybe you should try reading what people post but its probably hard when you are stoned.

Who would have thought that i might have changed my mind since 2008?

Up to your usual name calling again,it usually happens when you are WRONG.

THE LIGHTBRINGERS: The Emissaries of Jahbulon (History of Freemasonry):

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7652891847477492406

[marpat]

Up to your usual name calling again,it usually happens when you are WRONG.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7652891847477492406

Like I said you are a cock. I said a couple of pages back that I stand corrected. You are wrong many times but you go into a state of violent denial when it is pointed out to you. at least I havent offered to batter you for your efforts.

[lightgiver]

Like I said you are a cock. I said a couple of pages back that I stand corrected. You are wrong many times but you go into a state of violent denial when it is pointed out to you. at least I havent offered to batter you for your efforts.

Yes you are a massive one,


If Jahbulon is really a symbol of a Man's head on a spider's body, with the head of a cat and a toad, and if this is the symbol of the great architect of the universe, then we should understand this secret.

All such Gods are only composed of symbols that represent sects, cults and legions of spirits that rule and control the invisible and physical world. Jahbulon's symbol is in fact a merger of companies. Jahbulon is composed of symbols used in the highest Mystery schools, systems in today's world we would call witchcraft.

http://destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50873&page=2

You are well boring repeater.

[size_of_light]

Is that like Icke and Kyke?

A bit different but I'll say touche' anyway. :p

[marpat]

Yes you are a massive one,


If Jahbulon is really a symbol of a Man's head on a spider's body, with the head of a cat and a toad, and if this is the symbol of the great architect of the universe, then we should understand this secret.

All such Gods are only composed of symbols that represent sects, cults and legions of spirits that rule and control the invisible and physical world. Jahbulon's symbol is in fact a merger of companies. Jahbulon is composed of symbols used in the highest Mystery schools, systems in today's world we would call witchcraft.

http://destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50873&page=2

You are well boring repeater.

Go back some pages and look at what I have posted, ffs. That pic is of a spirit called bael from the lesser key of solomon. How many times do I need to tell you? maybe you are stoned again, that would explain it.

Talk about being a repeater, I have to keep reminding you that the crap you post is wrong and yet you still post it. Caught in a track?

I guess your level of knowledge is basically copying other web sites verbatim.

[marpat]

A bit different but I'll say touche' anyway. :p

Its always different when the Icke is dragged into the equation.

[size_of_light]

Great info marpat and lightgiver, thanks for what you've put up (even though you want to cut one another's throats :p ).

Now I just have to look at all the links and videos and try to make sense of it all...

[marpat]

Great info marpat and lightgiver, thanks for what you've put up (even though you want to cut one another's throats :p )

Now I just have to look at all the links and videos and try to make sense of it all...

If you can get hold of a book called 'OTO Rituals and Sex Magic' then you will find it all explained in there. I am not going to type it all out.

[size_of_light]

Its always different when the Icke is dragged into the equation.

He gets dragged into equations as a diversion quite often, too...

[nihil]

I like her already.

What's the going rate?

0 - Null - Nada - Free, if you're into the Brotherfella .

[lightgiver]

Go back some pages and look at what I have posted, ffs. That pic is of a spirit called bael from the lesser key of solomon. How many times do I need to tell you? maybe you are stoned again, that would explain it.

Talk about being a repeater, I have to keep reminding you that the crap you post is wrong and yet you still post it. Caught in a track?

I don't need to,you confuse things enough as it is with your side tracking tactics,

"the order worships another being, the Great Architect of the Universe, Jahbulon, whose nature bears a strong resemblance to that of Lucifer. The freemasons are compelled to believe in TGATU (the Great Architect of the Universe). According to the freemasons, Jahbulon is the Creative Being. The Thrice Grand Master Builder, the Nameless Spirit with a Hundred Names."

"Above the altar is seen the Star of David, sometimes the red fivepointed star with a G in the centre. The G stands for the God of the freemasons, Jahbulon. This is a compound of the names of three gods: Yahweh of Israel, Baal of Canaan (or Bel of Babylon) and the Egyptian On (another name for the god of death Osiris). The last two are also called upon at black magic and Satanist ceremonies. The G officially stands for Geometry. Only upon attaining a high degree is the freemason informed that the Great Architect of the Universe is called Jahbulon. In the degree called the Holy Royal Arch (13th), the appearance of the masonic god Jahbulon is revealed. He has a spider's body and three heads - that of a cat, a toad, and a human head. In this way the father god, the god of the heavens and the god of death were united.

-"G means also GENERATIVITY. Compass and square mean male and female. I translate the square also as V, the mark of Lucifer. (SoF note)

"As is well remembered the masonic deity Jahbulon has the body of a spider. Spiders tend to spin their nets." So internet is the web of spider Jahbulon. We use in our e-mail the sing '@' that it is a serpent spire. WWW means VV VV VV = 6 x V. (SoF note)
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11608

Do you really think anyone be lie s YOU Mara patsy.

You are supposed to be in the forces,and we know which forces they are ,the forces of evil.:p

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.He he he he he he he he he.

[nihil]

.

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/1746/popcorne.gif

[size_of_light]

If you can get hold of a book called 'OTO Rituals and Sex Magic' then you will find it all explained in there. I am not going to type it all out.

Thanks. I've had a look and there's torrents of it floating around, so I might give that a try.

[marpat]

Fucking hell LG you are surely retarted or stoned, or both.

If you dont want to actually examine the subject beyond anti-mason sites then please feel free to live in ignorace. Buddha said that we should test all things yet you seem incapable of following the advice of the founder of the religion you follow.

I could give you far more information on the subject but why bother? you chose to be ignorant and that will be your attainment.

[lightgiver]

Fucking hell you are surely retarted or stoned, or both.

If you dont want to actually examine the subject beyond anti-mason sites then please feel free to live in ignorace. Buddha said that we should test all things yet you seem incapable of following the advice of the founder of the religion you follow.

I could give you far more information on the subject but why bother? you chose to be ignorant and that will be your attainment.

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Goodness you are boring which force is it again :confused:

The internet force.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7652891847477492406

Just in case you did not get it.

Above the altar is seen the Star of David, sometimes the red five- pointed star with a G in the centre. The G stands for the God of the freemasons, Jahbulon. This is a compound of the names of three gods: Yahweh of Israel, Baal of Canaan (or Bel of Babylon) and the Egyptian On (another name for the god of death Osiris). The last two are also called upon at black magic and Satanist ceremonies. The G officially stands for Geometry. Only upon attaining a high degree is the freemason informed that the Great Architect of the Universe is called Jahbulon. In the degree called the Holy Royal Arch (13th), the appearance of the masonic god Jahbulon is revealed. He has a spider's body and three heads - that of a cat, a toad, and a human head. In this way the father god, the god of the heavens and the god of death were united.

Thy knows nowt,thy just pretends thy does.

and all your last resorts are name calling and swearing,sums up your intellect.

[marpat]

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Goodness you are boring which force is it again :confused:

The internet force.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7652891847477492406

Just in case you did not get it.

Above the altar is seen the Star of David, sometimes the red five- pointed star with a G in the centre. The G stands for the God of the freemasons, Jahbulon. This is a compound of the names of three gods: Yahweh of Israel, Baal of Canaan (or Bel of Babylon) and the Egyptian On (another name for the god of death Osiris). The last two are also called upon at black magic and Satanist ceremonies. The G officially stands for Geometry. Only upon attaining a high degree is the freemason informed that the Great Architect of the Universe is called Jahbulon. In the degree called the Holy Royal Arch (13th), the appearance of the masonic god Jahbulon is revealed. He has a spider's body and three heads - that of a cat, a toad, and a human head. In this way the father god, the god of the heavens and the god of death were united.

You on a loop?

[size_of_light]

I could give you far more information on the subject but why bother? you chose to be ignorant and that will be your attainment.

Do you see anything in there that might suggest a reptilian angle or possibly relate to an underground copper city in central Africa?

C'mon. Think about it and be honest.

:D

[lightgiver]

You on a loop?

No info there.:confused:

Typical.

[nihil]

Case Closed .

Bye, O' Lightbearers of Babalon !!

[lightgiver]

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Goodness you are boring which force is it again :confused:

The internet force.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7652891847477492406

Just in case you did not get it.

Above the altar is seen the Star of David, sometimes the red five- pointed star with a G in the centre. The G stands for the God of the freemasons, Jahbulon. This is a compound of the names of three gods: Yahweh of Israel, Baal of Canaan (or Bel of Babylon) and the Egyptian On (another name for the god of death Osiris). The last two are also called upon at black magic and Satanist ceremonies. The G officially stands for Geometry. Only upon attaining a high degree is the freemason informed that the Great Architect of the Universe is called Jahbulon. In the degree called the Holy Royal Arch (13th), the appearance of the masonic god Jahbulon is revealed. He has a spider's body and three heads - that of a cat, a toad, and a human head. In this way the father god, the god of the heavens and the god of death were united.

Thy knows nowt,thy just pretends thy does.

and all your last resorts are name calling and swearing,sums up your intellect.


Bumped

[grandsecretary]

Here's an excerpt from:

Christianity, Masonry not compatible. Definitions of God pose fundamental difference.
[03/13/93, The Press-Enterprise Riverside, CA]

Regarding the identity of God, in Scottish Rite Masonry, the 13th degree is that of the Royal Arch.
In it, the alleged true, previously hidden name of God is revealed as Jabulum.

"The Encyclopedia of Freemasonry," affirms this, under the entry for Jabulum; in the definition of Bel, it says, "Bel is the contracted form of Baal, worshipped by the Babylonians and was introduced, with Jah and Oh, into the Royal Arch system as a representative of the name of God. Jah represents the name Jehovah, Bel represents Baal, and Oh represents Osiris.

Jim Shaw, former 33 Degree Mason, says that Masonry is not based on the Bible referred to as "The Great Light", but on the Kabbalah

Cabala


a medieval book of mysticism and magic. Masonic authority Henry Wilson Coil admits that the Kabala's teachings can be seen in some of the mystical and philosophical degrees of Masonry.

Albert Pike, the man responsible for the re-estabilished Scottish Rite degrees into their actual form, said that the Masonic search-after-light leads directly back to the Kabala, the ultimate source of Masonic beliefs. See: Morals and Dogma .
.

For we can do nothing against the truth, but for the truth (2 Corinthians 13:8)

And this is ABSOLUTELY true. It is undeniable.

[marpat]

LG

Try this link, it shows Bael. Fives minutes of effort would have proven what I said but you are too lazy to look:

http://www.donaldtyson.com/bael.html

[nihil]

http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/2015/urlop.gif He speaketh hoarsely.

[lightgiver]

LG

Try this link, it shows Bael. Fives minutes of effort would have proven what I said but you are too lazy to look:

http://www.donaldtyson.com/bael.html

Marpat I know what I know and I do not believe you,you cannot even say what force you are in,so why should I believe anything you say.

I can put up 10 links to your 1.

It is about weighing up the evidence and the scales are in 1 direction.

[grandsecretary]

Again I call you a liar. Read the lesser key of solomon and you will find that what you posted is bael. I think you just dont want to believe it.

I have a full lecture in fron of me that completely describes what jahbulon is and it is far more that people are posting.

It is, perhaps, a little harsh to call him a liar in this way. There is no doubt that he is an obsessive nuisance, who constantly seeks to fit information into his pre-conceived prejudices. Unfortunately it contributes little or nothing to the debate, but we all know this, and so we can safely afford to be magnanimous. Knowledge is power.

[marpat]

Marpat I know what I know and I do not believe you,you cannot even say what force you are in,so why should I believe anything you say.

I can put up 10 links to your 1.

Its is about weighing up the evidence and the scales are in 1 direction.

10 links of pure shit are nothing though. It matters not if you refuse to look into the matter as it just proves that you fear being wrong.

I put a link up proving your crap was a fabrication and fantasy of anti-masons yet you seem to be unable to actually look into it. I guess you are just too weak to look into the matter. Maybe when you are strong enough to come out of your rubber cell into society you might feel confident enough to face up to such realities.

[lightgiver]

It is, perhaps, a little harsh to call him a liar in this way. There is no doubt that he is an obsessive nuisance, who constantly seeks to fit information into his pre-conceived prejudices. Unfortunately it contributes little or nothing to the debate, but we all know this, and so we can safely afford to be magnanimous. Knowledge is power.

It appears you enjoy coming on this forum with the other nuisances,so it appears it is you and your acquaintances who are the nuisance.

Maybe you just love Icke.

Institutionalised Parasites?http://www.freemasonrywatch.org/silentdestroyers.html

[lightgiver]

10 links of pure shit are nothing though. It matters not if you refuse to look into the matter as it just proves that you fear being wrong.

I put a link up proving your crap was a fabrication and fantasy of anti-masons yet you seem to be unable to actually look into it. I guess you are just too weak to look into the matter. Maybe when you are strong enough to come out of your rubber cell into society you might feel confident enough to face up to such realities.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz z

[grandsecretary]

Sleep well.

[marpat]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz z

I guess this means you have been beaten, AGAIN. I am sure the threats of violence will not be long coming

[lightgiver]

I guess this means you have been beaten, AGAIN. I am sure the threats of violence will not be long coming

More BS,YAWN,

VOMIT, Victims Of Masonic Ill Treatment ,

http://www.freemasonrywatch.org/silentdestroyers.html

It appears the masons are going down with the Vatican and the OTO on one big sinking ship.:D:D

In the ritual of exaltation, the name of the Great Architect of the Universe [The Freemason's god] is revealed as JAH-BUL-ON - not a general umbrella term but a precise designation that describes a specific supernatural being - a compound deity composed of three separate personalities fused in one. Each syllable of the 'ineffable name' represents one personality of this Trinity:

JAH
Jahweh, The God of the Hebrews.
BUL
Baal, the ancient Canaanite fertility god associated with 'licentious rites of imitative magic'.
ON
Osiris, the Ancient Egyptian god of the underworld.

Baal, of course, was the 'false god' with whom Jahweh competed for the allegiance of the Isrealites in the Old Testament. But more recently, within a hundred years of the creation of the Freemason's god, the sixteenth century demonologist John Weir identified Baal as a devil. This grotesque manifestation of evil had the body of a spider and three heads - those of a man, a toad, and a cat. A description of Baal to be found in de Plancy's Dictionary of Witchcraft is particularly apposite when considered in the light of the secretive and deceptive nature of Freemasonry: his voice was raucous, and he taught his followers guile, cunning and the ability to become invisible.

[grandsecretary]

Sleep well. That was a recommendation.

[lightgiver]

Sleep well. That was a recommendation.

It appears you do not.Maybe you need some more time out,it looks like you last one was not enough.

When a freemason is being initiated into the third degree he is struck on the forehead in the dark, knocked back either into a coffin or onto a coffin shape. His fellow masons lift him up and when he opens his eyes he is confronted with the skull of 'a mason who broke his vow of secrecy'. Under a willing threat of death no mason of third degree or higher can be trusted, particularly in public office. He is hoodwinked literally and metaphorically, placing himself under a curse.

[grandsecretary]

It appears you do not.Maybe you need some more time out,it looks like you last one was not enough.

When a freemason is being initiated into the third degree he is struck on the forehead in the dark, knocked back either into a coffin or onto a coffin shape. His fellow masons lift him up and when he opens his eyes he is confronted with the skull of 'a mason who broke his vow of secrecy'. Under a willing threat of death no mason of third degree or higher can be trusted, particularly in public office. He is hoodwinked literally and metaphorically, placing himself under a curse.

The third or Master Mason's degree is a Moderns Rosicrucian invention (c.1730) and nothing whatsoever to do with me, or our Grand Lodge. Now go to bed before you fall over and hurt yourself.

[lightgiver]

The third or Master Mason's degree is a Moderns Rosicrucian invention (c.1730) and nothing whatsoever to do with me, or our Grand Lodge. Now go to bed before you fall over and hurt yourself.

Is that a threat.

The RMS Titanic was an Olympic-class passenger liner owned by British shipping company White Star Line and built at the Harland and Wolff shipyard in Belfast, United Kingdom. For her time, she was the largest passenger steamship in the world.

On the night of 14 April 1912, during the ship's maiden voyage, Titanic hit an iceberg and sank two hours and forty minutes later, early on 15 April 1912. The sinking resulted in the deaths of 1,517 people, making it one of the deadliest peacetime maritime disasters in history. The high casualty rate was due in part to the fact that, although complying with the regulations of the time, the ship did not carry enough lifeboats for everyone aboard. The ship had a total lifeboat capacity of 1,178 people, although her capacity was 3,547.

Kind of reminds me of something else which is out of date and draconian.

JAH-BUL-ON - YouTube

360 degrees and the Olympians.The RMS Titanic was an Olympic-class passenger liner.

All will eventually succumb die and decay in samsara.

Wer ist Jahbulon? - YouTube

and reap what they sow.

[nihil]

...

While on board, an American millionaire offered to pay his way for the rest of the voyage to New York. On being appraised of this suggestion, Frank's Jesuit Superior cabled Queenstown saying, succinctly,“


“GET OFF THAT SHIP---PROVINCIAL”.


Nice Guy, he took some good Photograph... then happily disembarked .
.

[marpat]

More BS,YAWN,

VOMIT, Victims Of Masonic Ill Treatment ,

http://www.freemasonrywatch.org/silentdestroyers.html

It appears the masons are going down with the Vatican and the OTO on one big sinking ship.:D:D

In the ritual of exaltation, the name of the Great Architect of the Universe [The Freemason's god] is revealed as JAH-BUL-ON - not a general umbrella term but a precise designation that describes a specific supernatural being - a compound deity composed of three separate personalities fused in one. Each syllable of the 'ineffable name' represents one personality of this Trinity:

JAH
Jahweh, The God of the Hebrews.
BUL
Baal, the ancient Canaanite fertility god associated with 'licentious rites of imitative magic'.
ON
Osiris, the Ancient Egyptian god of the underworld.

Baal, of course, was the 'false god' with whom Jahweh competed for the allegiance of the Isrealites in the Old Testament. But more recently, within a hundred years of the creation of the Freemason's god, the sixteenth century demonologist John Weir identified Baal as a devil. This grotesque manifestation of evil had the body of a spider and three heads - those of a man, a toad, and a cat. A description of Baal to be found in de Plancy's Dictionary of Witchcraft is particularly apposite when considered in the light of the secretive and deceptive nature of Freemasonry: his voice was raucous, and he taught his followers guile, cunning and the ability to become invisible.

I guess the NWO have nothing to fear if you are the sort of person who claims to be exposing them. All you expose is your own blindness.

I take it that you have undergone a form of severe brain washing because it is quite apparent that you constantly post stuff even though information has been provided that counters what you say.

And again we are back to where we were page ago. On is not Osiris except in the minds of the completely stupid.

[lightgiver]

I guess the NWO have nothing to fear if you are the sort of person who claims to be exposing them. All you expose is your own blindness.

I take it that you have undergone a form of severe brain washing because it is quite apparent that you constantly post stuff even though information has been provided that counters what you say.

And again we are back to where we were page ago. On is not Osiris except in the minds of the completely stupid.

Thats all you can do isn't it ,insult because you are defeated.

You come on here insult Icke and anyone who disagrees with you,What the hell are you doing here exactly?

You have been exposed so many times and still you rattle on,like a stuck record.

You are full of cack or maybe on crack.

Wer ist Jahbulon? - YouTube

[keystone]

When a freemason is being initiated into the third degree he is struck on the forehead in the dark, knocked back either into a coffin or onto a coffin shape. His fellow masons lift him up and when he opens his eyes he is confronted with the skull of 'a mason who broke his vow of secrecy'. Under a willing threat of death no mason of third degree or higher can be trusted, particularly in public office. He is hoodwinked literally and metaphorically, placing himself under a curse.Close but no cigar. Your description isn't entirely accurate and its a vow of fidelity which is a quite different thing.

Cheers

[lightgiver]

Close but no cigar. Your description isn't entirely accurate and its a vow of fidelity which is a quite different thing.

Cheers

Oh yes a big cigar for moi,I reckon you do not even know who the first freemason was.;)

Have a Cigar - YouTube

[keystone]

....................Titanic hit an iceberg and sank two hours and forty minutes later, early on 15 April 1912............ No she didn't - it was the Olympic which had been substituted as having been damaged she was effectively a write off and uninsured. It was nothing more sinister that a gigantic insurance fraud which went horribly wrong as the pre-arranged rescue ship was in the wrong place.

Cheers

[lightgiver]

No she didn't - it was the Olympic which had been substituted as having been damaged she was effectively a write off and uninsured. It was nothing more sinister that a gigantic insurance fraud which went horribly wrong as the pre-arranged rescue ship was in the wrong place.

Cheers

A false flag,a lot like 911 and all the other wars ETC ETC,so who was the first freemason keystone.

Come on keystone NO googling,ha ha.

Just as I thought he knows not.?

BTW

360 degrees and the Olympians.(read some Manly P hall)The RMS Titanic was an Olympic-class passenger liner.
All will eventually succumb die and decay in samsara.(even Masons)be lie ve it or not.

For instance 322 being a symbol for skull and bones.

the Mason's Keystone: Solving the inner degrees - YouTube

[dawnismygoddess]

Wow, this thread sure blew up.

[biblegirl]

Regarding the identity of God, in Scottish Rite Masonry, the 13th degree is that of the Royal Arch.
In it, the alleged true, previously hidden name of God is revealed as Jabulum.

"The Encyclopedia of Freemasonry," affirms this, under the entry for Jabulum; in the definition of Bel, it says, "Bel is the contracted form of Baal, worshipped by the Babylonians and was introduced, with Jah and Oh, into the Royal Arch system as a representative of the name of God. Jah represents the name Jehovah, Bel represents Baal, and Oh represents Osiris.

Jim Shaw, former 33 Degree Mason, says that Masonry is not based on the Bible referred to as "The Great Light", but on the Kabbalah

Cabala


a medieval book of mysticism and magic. Masonic authority Henry Wilson Coil admits that the Kabala's teachings can be seen in some of the mystical and philosophical degrees of Masonry.

Albert Pike, the man responsible for the re-estabilished Scottish Rite degrees into their actual form, said that the Masonic search-after-light leads directly back to the Kabala, the ultimate source of Masonic beliefs. See: Morals and Dogma .
.

For we can do nothing against the truth, but for the truth (2 Corinthians 13:8)

Sooo.....this is the answer, right? It's God/Jehovah + Baal Caananite god + Osiris god of the dead = jahbulon ?



Kind of reminds me of something else which is out of date and draconian.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEBsDLcbd9Q

360 degrees and the Olympians.The RMS Titanic was an Olympic-class passenger liner.

All will eventually succumb die and decay in samsara.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqO9cgvaow8

and reap what they sow.

I clicked on the second vid because I have briefly encountered an entity that looks similar to that, yet this is the first time i have come across a drawing :eek:...only had one head though!

[dawnismygoddess]

Sooo.....this is the answer, right? It's God/Jehovah + Baal Caananite god + Osiris god of the dead = jahbulon ?

I think the jury is still out on if in fact On = Osiris....

[nihil]

The ancient Heliopolis, called ON (Greek: Ἡλίου πόλις or Ἡλιούπολις) meaning sun-city, was one of the most ancient cities of Egypt. It was the principal seat of sun-worship, thus its name, which means city of the sun in Greek.

Osiris is regarded as the dead king that watches over the nether world and is rejuvenated in his son Horus.

He developed from the primitive fertility god, Nepri, to become one of the most important of all the Egyptian deities. As such he was associated with the inundation of the Nile. From this his association with resurrection, regrowth and new life its importance has to be found in the fact that the fertile strip of land by the Nile turned occasionally into desert, which for Egyptians equaled to a mere place of death. Their world disappeared and they were never really sure that the flood would come back and in sufficient amount to develop crops again.

His authority as a king and a divine judge of the underworld probably came from his role as a source of fertility and his ability to regenerate life.

Middle July, the 1st Epagomenal Day, is the Birthday of Osiris.

The city's Egyptian name (hieroglyphs transliterated, ỉwnw) is transcribed as Iunu "place of pillars" and in Greek as Ὂν On, and in biblical Hebrew as אן ˀÔn and און ˀĀwen.

[nihil]

I just see the ON similarity as factual cause almost every single Rite in the Brothafellas is, in some sort, a Copyright infringement of Egyptian Mythologies .

[boots]

It appears you do not.Maybe you need some more time out,it looks like you last one was not enough.

:D

When a freemason is being initiated into the third degree he is struck on the forehead in the dark, knocked back either into a coffin or onto a coffin shape. His fellow masons lift him up and when he opens his eyes he is confronted with the skull of 'a mason who broke his vow of secrecy'. Under a willing threat of death no mason of third degree or higher can be trusted, particularly in public office. He is hoodwinked literally and metaphorically, placing himself under a curse.

That is pure mind control.

[marpat]

[QUOTE=lightgiver;1211559]Thats all you can do isn't it ,insult because you are defeated.

You come on here insult Icke and anyone who disagrees with you,What the hell are you doing here exactly?

You have been exposed so many times and still you rattle on,like a stuck record.

You are full of cack or maybe on crack.

/QUOTE]

Exposed for what exactly?

Do I insult Icke or just question his work. I thought I was just questioning it as I have not used anything really offensive to describe the man himself. I think you cant tell the difference though.

I like this post. I say you have been beaten so you say the same of me. I say you are stoned so you say I am on crack. You lack originality.

[marpat]

The ancient Heliopolis, called ON (Greek: Ἡλίου πόλις or Ἡλιούπολις) meaning sun-city, was one of the most ancient cities of Egypt. It was the principal seat of sun-worship, thus its name, which means city of the sun in Greek.

Osiris is regarded as the dead king that watches over the nether world and is rejuvenated in his son Horus.

He developed from the primitive fertility god, Nepri, to become one of the most important of all the Egyptian deities. As such he was associated with the inundation of the Nile. From this his association with resurrection, regrowth and new life its importance has to be found in the fact that the fertile strip of land by the Nile turned occasionally into desert, which for Egyptians equaled to a mere place of death. Their world disappeared and they were never really sure that the flood would come back and in sufficient amount to develop crops again.

His authority as a king and a divine judge of the underworld probably came from his role as a source of fertility and his ability to regenerate life.

Middle July, the 1st Epagomenal Day, is the Birthday of Osiris.

The city's Egyptian name (hieroglyphs transliterated, ỉwnw) is transcribed as Iunu "place of pillars" and in Greek as Ὂν On, and in biblical Hebrew as אן ˀÔn and און ˀĀwen.

If you read the book of the dead, which is the wrong name for the book, then you might find that the abode of Orisis is actually Annu.

[nihil]

Annu is closed to Iunu - as you Quoted me here above .

Egyptian hierogliphics do not have vowels as far as I know .

[marpat]

Sooo.....this is the answer, right? It's God/Jehovah + Baal Caananite god + Osiris god of the dead = jahbulon ?




I clicked on the second vid because I have briefly encountered an entity that looks similar to that, yet this is the first time i have come across a drawing :eek:...only had one head though!

That is not correct. Jahbulon is a description of god rather than a name. Osiris has nothing to do with it. I just found a nice big lecture in one of my books on the subject and I would have to say there is nothing negative about it. It is more of an exultation to the most high god of love and unity.

Also, to prevent you being lied to, the image that people keep posting of jahbulon is false. The three headed spider is a spirit called Bael from the lesser key of solomon. If you look online you will find this to be true. I cant understand why some people seem to have a problem checking this out. Maybe it does not fit in with what they want to believe.

[marpat]

Annu is closed to Iunu - as you Quoted me here above .

Egyptian hierogliphics do not have vowels as far as I know .

Being close to something does not make it the same. This is why some foolish people think saturn is the same as satan.

[nihil]

Saturn, the son of Cœlus and Terra, (heavens and earth) and the father of Jupiter. He answers to Chronus or Time. In Chaldea pronounced 'Satur', but spelt 'stur' .

Note how close the Chaldean pronunciation 'Satur' is to the 'Satyrs' of the Greece:
SA'TYR, satyrus , σατυρος, a sylvan deity, represented as half man and half goat, having horns on his head, a hairy body, with the feet and tail of a goat.

The Babylonian fire-god, who is the 'deliverer' is the Latin and Roman 'god of the mysteries' . I won't recall easy changing of phonemes anymore .

SAT-URN-A'LIAN, saturnalia, feasts of Saturn, The festivals celebrated in honor of Saturn, Dec. 16, 17 or 18, in which men indulged in riot without restraint. Hence, a connection with excitement, pungency. Immoderate venereal appetite.

SAT'UR-DAY, Saturn's day, the day next preceding the sabbath.

[size_of_light]

So do you have any older sources of information by Credo that dates back to his youth?

I can't get it to load at the moment but page 357 of the David Hatcher Childress book "Lost Cities and Ancient Mysteries of Africa and Arabia" shows the photo I mentioned earlier.

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=prq6ykijSyQC&pg=PA357&lpg=PA357&dq=%22credo+mutwa%22+%22david+hatcher+childress%27&source=bl&ots=dReVmkXW-_&sig=gsSRT7QCD73rGDsYiMsZVCtM2d8&hl=en&ei=8ciPSrOpBZT6kAWojt27Cg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1#v=onepage&q=&f=true

Credo Mutwa's 1964 book "Indaba, My Children" seems to be his main early work on African Mythology, extended excerpts of which can be found here:

http://credomutwa.com/books/indaba-my-children/

I can't see any references to Jabulon at a glance. I wonder if any parallels can be drawn between some of the legends he recounts in this book and Freemason rituals. Unfortunately, lacking any real in-depth knowledge of Masonry myself, I'm not up to the task of trying to draw them.

Re: On = Osiris...

Briefly, what's your explanation for why they don't relate?

I've taken a look at a few things online today that suggest there is a connection.

This, according to one source, comes from Macoy's Dictionary of Freemasonry, which seems to be a fairly authoritative sourcebook (at least to some), and I wondered what your thoughts on it are:

JAH. The inspired writings inform us that the deity was known in idolatrous nations, under his own proper and significant appelation of Jehovah. St. Paul says, that they knew God, though they glorified him not as God, neither were they thankful; but worshipped the creature rather than the Creator. And God himself tells us that they possessed the Tetragrammaton, Tetractys, or sacred name, which amongst the Jews was Jah; for he says, "from the rising of the sun, even unto the going down of the same, my name shall be (or is, according to the translation of Cudworth,) great among the Gentiles. And they superstitiously believed that the Name was of such sovereign efficacy, as to enable the possessor to cure diseases, work miracles, and fortel future events."

BUL. The compounds of this divine name Bel, are of great variety. Bel-us was used by the Chaldeans; and the deity was known amongst the ancient Celtae by the name of Bel or Belenus, which title, by modern authors, is identified with Apollo. The primitive name of Britain was Vel-ynys, the island of Bel; and the fires lighted up on May-day were in honour of this deity, and called Bel's fire. The inhabitants made use of a word, known only to themselves, to express the unutterable name of the Deity, of which the letters O. I. W. were a sacred symbol. In this they resembled the Jews, who always said Adonai, when the name of Jehovah occurred. Baal was the most ancient god of the Canaanites, and was referred to the sun. Manasseh raised altars to this deity, and worshipped him in all the pomp of heathen superstition; and when these altars were destroyed by Josiah, the worship of Baal was identified with that of the sun.

ON. Under this appellation the Deity was worshipped by the Egyptians, and they professed to believe that he was eternal, and the foundation of light and life, but, according to their gross conceptions, being necessarily visible, the sun was adored as his representative, and was most probably the same as Osiris. If they believed On to be the living and eternal God, they allowed the same attributes to the sun, which they undoubtably worshipped as the Lord of the creation. Oannes was the God of the Chaldeans, and Dag-On of the Philistines; both of which are derivations of the same name. On was evidently the same deity as the Hebrew Jehovah, and was introduced amongst the Greeks by Plato, who acknowledges his eternity and incomprehensibility in these remarkable words: "Tell me of the God On; which is and never knew beginning." And the same name was used by the early Christians for the true God; for St. John in the Apocalypse, has this expression -- ο ων και ο ην και ο ερχομενος which is translated by our authorised version of the Scriptures, by "Him, which is, and which was, and which is to come."

[size_of_light]

Masonic scholar Arturo DeHoyos has theorized that it is derived from "Jabulum", a fictional character who appeared in one of the old degrees in the French Rite of Perfection.

A Jewish craftsman recently freed from bondage in Babylon, right?

[size_of_light]

Something else of interest:

JAH-BUL-ON

by Stephen Knight

(The Brotherhood by Stephen Knight p. 236-240)

In the ritual of exaltation, the name of the Great Architect of the Universe is revealed as JAH-BUL-ON -not a general umbrella term open to any interpretation an individual Freemason might choose, but a precise designation that describes a specific supernatural being - a compound deity composed of three separate personalities fused in one. Each syllable of the 'ineffable name' represents one personality of this Trinity:

JAH = Jahweh, the God of the Hebrews.
BUL = Baal, the ancient Canaanite fertility god associated with 'licentious rites of imitative magic'.
ON = Osiris, the Ancient Egyptian god of the underworld.

Baal, of course, was the 'false god' with whom Jahweh competed for the allegiance of the Israelites in the Old Testament. But more recently, within a hundred years of the creation of the Freemason's God, the sixteenth-century demonologist John Weir identified Baal as a devil. This grotesque manifestation of evil had the body of a spider and three heads - those of a man, a toad and a cat. A description of Baal to be found in de Plancy's Dictionary of Witchcraft is particularly apposite when considered in the light of the secretive and deceptive nature of Freemasonry: his voice was raucous, and he taught his followers guile, cunning and the ability to become invisible.

In 1873, the renowned masonic author and historian General Albert Pike, later to become Grand Commander of the Southern Jurisdiction of the Supreme Council (of the 33rd Degree) at Charleston, USA, wrote of his reaction on learning of Jah-Bul-On. He was disquieted and disgusted by the name, and went on: 'No man or body of men can make me accept as a sacred word, as a symbol of the infinite and eternal Godhead, a mongrel word, in part composed of the name of an accursed and beastly heathen god, whose name has been for more than two thousand years an appellation of the Devil.'

I have spoken to no less than fifty-seven long-standing Royal Arch Freemasons who have been happy to talk to me, to help me in my ambition to give Freemasonry 'a fair crack of the whip'. Most of them spoke quite freely, explaining without hesitation their views, reactions and answers to the criticisms and queries I raised. However, all but four lost their self-assurance and composure when I said, 'What about Jah-Bul-On?' Some, although they had previously told me they had been exalted to the Royal Arch, and therefore must have not only received the lecture on the name but also studied the passages and enacted the ritual relating to Jah-Bul-On, said they had never heard of it. In most cases the interviewees very rapidly brought the meeting to a close when I asked the question. Others laughed unconvincingly and extricated themselves from having to reply by jauntily saying such words as, 'Oh, that old chestnut', and passing quickly on to some other subject, normally going on the offensive with something like, 'Why are you so interested in Freemasonry in particular? Why don't you look into Christianity or something? Why do people always pick on Freemasonry?' -thereby diverting the conversation from the course I had plotted. If I insisted on returning to Jah-Bul-On, almost invariably the interview would be unceremoniously terminated. Others said that although they had heard of the word, they did not know what it meant. To them it meant God, and previously erudite Freemasons, with a precise knowledge of every other aspect of Masonry we had discussed, suddenly became vague and claimed ignorance of this most central of all Freemasonic subjects. While professing an almost total lack of knowledge of Jah-Bul-On, several dismissed it as of no real importance.

Charles Stratton, one Royal Arch Freemason for whom I have the utmost admiration, told me this of Jah-Bul-On: 'No one ever has time to think about its meaning, you're too busy trying to remember your words. As far as I know it's just another name for Jehovah.'

Acute silences, chiefly of embarrassment, followed my question on many occasions, as happened when I spoke to a most co-operative officer both of Grand Lodge and Grand Chapter.

We had been discussing whether or not Freemasonry was a religion, and I had run through my customary list of religious terms used in Freemasonry. Then I added, 'One comes across the phrase, "the sacred tenets of Free­masonry". This seems to imply that Masonry thinks of itself as a religion.'

The Grand Officer replied, 'No, I haven't said that. .. the sacred tenets?'

'Yes.'

'Well, the word sacred means holy.'

'Yes. Then there's the "Holy" Royal Arch.'

He paused. When he began to speak again it was much more slowly.

'Yes. The Holy Royal Arch. They are all expressions of ... religion in its fullest sense, not in a masonic sense. I cannot stress too strongly the fact that there is no masonic religion, no masonic god, deity or someone or something to which a Freemason must swear loyalty. No.'

'What about Jah-Bul-On?'

He was obviously taken off-guard. He said nothing for nearly ten seconds and looked most discomfited. At length, proceeding with the extreme caution of a man feeling his way through a thicket of thorns, he said: 'These are ... Hebrew words which are ... murdered from their original. And Jah is the Hebrew word for God, so it's God again. You come back to God, the real God. But these - ha! [he chuckled] - these are ways in which we express our loyalty to God.'

'It's interesting you should choose only to define the first syllable, which is of course the most acceptable to those with religious convictions. But what about the other parts of that word which are, are they not, Baal and Osiris?'

Another long pause. 'I don't know them. That's the higher echelons of Freemasonry.'

'That's in the Royal Arch, isn't it?'

'I don't do Royal Arch. I do Chapter, but not Royal Arch.'

This was the first lie he had told me, and I could see it was unpleasant for him.

I continued: 'It is established that Jahbulon is a composite name for God, made up of Jah—'

'What's Bul-On?'

'Bul is Baal and On is Osiris, the Ancient Egyptian god of the dead.'

'Well...'

'Pike was outraged when he heard that name for the first time and saw it associated with Freemasonry, which of course was so dear to him. He said that nothing would induce him to accept as the name of God a word which is in part the name of a pagan god and for more than two thousand years an appellation of the devil.'

'I agree on that, but I... I... I don't know about it. It's not that I don't want to. I don't know about it so I really can't comment. You'll have to ask someone who knows.'

'Does it worry you?'

'In one of the higher degrees they use Jesus Christ.'

'Yes, there are several masonic orders which are exclusively Christian - the Knights Templar, the Ancient and Accepted Rite, the Societas Rosicruciana, the Knights of Malta, the Order of Eri. But does the name Jah-Bul-On worry you?'

'Many Masons wouldn't subscribe to those Christian degrees.'

The implication was clear: if Christ was an acceptable part of Freemasonry even to a non-Christian, why not the devil as well? Unacceptable though he might be to most initiates, he has his place.

http://www.whale.to/b/knight.html

[marpat]

Saturn, the son of Cœlus and Terra, (heavens and earth) and the father of Jupiter. He answers to Chronus or Time. In Chaldea pronounced 'Satur', but spelt 'stur' .

Note how close the Chaldean pronunciation 'Satur' is to the 'Satyrs' of the Greece:
SA'TYR, satyrus , σατυρος, a sylvan deity, represented as half man and half goat, having horns on his head, a hairy body, with the feet and tail of a goat.

The Babylonian fire-god, who is the 'deliverer' is the Latin and Roman 'god of the mysteries' . I won't recall easy changing of phonemes anymore .

SAT-URN-A'LIAN, saturnalia, feasts of Saturn, The festivals celebrated in honor of Saturn, Dec. 16, 17 or 18, in which men indulged in riot without restraint. Hence, a connection with excitement, pungency. Immoderate venereal appetite.

SAT'UR-DAY, Saturn's day, the day next preceding the sabbath.

You forgot to mention that the saturnalia was a time when slaves were freed and allowed to say as they pleased. Funny how you focus on certain aspects while forgetting other positive ones. Are you by any chance a christian?

[marpat]

I can't get it to load at the moment but page 357 of the David Hatcher Childress book "Lost Cities and Ancient Mysteries of Africa and Arabia" shows the photo I mentioned earlier.

Credo Mutwa's 1964 book "Indaba, My Children" seems to be his main early work on African Mythology, extended excerpts of which can be found here:

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=prq6ykijSyQC&pg=PA357&lpg=PA357&dq=%22credo+mutwa%22+%22david+hatcher+childress%27&source=bl&ots=dReVmkXW-_&sig=gsSRT7QCD73rGDsYiMsZVCtM2d8&hl=en&ei=8ciPSrOpBZT6kAWojt27Cg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1#v=onepage&q=&f=true

I can't see any references to Jabulon at a glance. I wonder if any parallels can be drawn between some of the legends he recounts in this book and Freemason rituals. Unfortunately, lacking any real in-depth knowledge of Masonry myself, I'm not up to the task of trying to draw them.

Re: On = Osiris...

Briefly, what's your explanation for why they don't relate?

I've taken a look at a few things online today that suggest there is a connection.

This, according to one source, comes from Macoy's Dictionary of Freemasonry, which seems to be a fairly authoritative sourcebook (at least to some), and I wondered what your thoughts on it are:

JAH. The inspired writings inform us that the deity was known in idolatrous nations, under his own proper and significant appelation of Jehovah. St. Paul says, that they knew God, though they glorified him not as God, neither were they thankful; but worshipped the creature rather than the Creator. And God himself tells us that they possessed the Tetragrammaton, Tetractys, or sacred name, which amongst the Jews was Jah; for he says, "from the rising of the sun, even unto the going down of the same, my name shall be (or is, according to the translation of Cudworth,) great among the Gentiles. And they superstitiously believed that the Name was of such sovereign efficacy, as to enable the possessor to cure diseases, work miracles, and fortel future events."

BUL. The compounds of this divine name Bel, are of great variety. Bel-us was used by the Chaldeans; and the deity was known amongst the ancient Celtae by the name of Bel or Belenus, which title, by modern authors, is identified with Apollo. The primitive name of Britain was Vel-ynys, the island of Bel; and the fires lighted up on May-day were in honour of this deity, and called Bel's fire. The inhabitants made use of a word, known only to themselves, to express the unutterable name of the Deity, of which the letters O. I. W. were a sacred symbol. In this they resembled the Jews, who always said Adonai, when the name of Jehovah occurred. Baal was the most ancient god of the Canaanites, and was referred to the sun. Manasseh raised altars to this deity, and worshipped him in all the pomp of heathen superstition; and when these altars were destroyed by Josiah, the worship of Baal was identified with that of the sun.

ON. Under this appellation the Deity was worshipped by the Egyptians, and they professed to believe that he was eternal, and the foundation of light and life, but, according to their gross conceptions, being necessarily visible, the sun was adored as his representative, and was most probably the same as Osiris. If they believed On to be the living and eternal God, they allowed the same attributes to the sun, which they undoubtably worshipped as the Lord of the creation. Oannes was the God of the Chaldeans, and Dag-On of the Philistines; both of which are derivations of the same name. On was evidently the same deity as the Hebrew Jehovah, and was introduced amongst the Greeks by Plato, who acknowledges his eternity and incomprehensibility in these remarkable words: "Tell me of the God On; which is and never knew beginning." And the same name was used by the early Christians for the true God; for St. John in the Apocalypse, has this expression -- ο ων και ο ην και ο ερχομενος which is translated by our authorised version of the Scriptures, by "Him, which is, and which was, and which is to come."

So what you have is no references to jahbulon in Credo work until Icke comes along with his anti-mason stance. Osiris was a moon god, which is why he rules the underworld, so On cant be Osiris.
Also, I have mentioned many times in this thread that there is an ancient Egyptian moon god called yah but nobody seems to actually notice this.
Your link pulls up a blank page.

[marpat]

Size of Light, funny that your initials are SOL.

I take it you did not get to read the OTO description of jahbulon? There is more to it than a word for when it is placed onto a hexagram in a certain way it reveals many other positive ideas.

[size_of_light]

So what you have is no references to jahbulon in Credo work until Icke comes along with his anti-mason stance. Osiris was a moon god, which is why he rules the underworld, so On cant be Osiris.
Also, I have mentioned many times in this thread that there is an ancient Egyptian moon god called yah but nobody seems to actually notice this.
Your link pulls up a blank page.

No references that I could find in the excerpts from his 1964 book, but there could be something in the full version.

The only place I've personally heard Credo mention 'Jabulon' is in the interview posted in the OP, which was with Rick Martin from Spectrum magazine in 1999.

True, this was after he'd been in contact with Icke, but it's jumping the gun to suggest that because of this he's making the story up to appeal to a Western audience. Much more background info is needed, and I don't have it.

Osiris was a moon god, which is why he rules the underworld, so On cant be Osiris.

Why?

Are you familiar with Macoy's Dictionary? What do you think of the connection made there?

[size_of_light]

Size of Light, funny that your initials are SOL.

Haha. Yeah, I noticed that too.


I take it you did not get to read the OTO description of jahbulon? There is more to it than a word for when it is placed onto a hexagram in a certain way it reveals many other positive ideas.

Did you post that description or link? Sorry, I can't find it.

[marpat]

No references that I could find in the excerpts from his 1964 book, but there could be something in the full version.

The only place I've personally heard Credo mention 'Jabulon' is in the interview posted in the OP, which was with Rick Martin from Spectrum magazine in 1999.

True, this was after he'd been in contact with Icke, but it's jumping the gun to suggest that because of this he's making the story up to appeal to a Western audience. Much more background info is needed, and I don't have it.



Why?

Are you familiar with Macoy's Dictionary? What do you think of the connection made there?

Perhaps that background information doesnt actually exist

I dont have that dictionary but have many books on Egyptian magic and religion.

[marpat]

Haha. Yeah, I noticed that too.



Did you post that description or link? Sorry, I can't find it.

I thought you found a book to download. It is in the section on the IV degree.
I read through it and cant say there is anything wrong wit it, certainly nothing that indicates some evil deity. There seems to be nothing to link it to the spirit of bael from the lesser key of solomon as some people seem to think.

[size_of_light]

Perhaps that background information doesnt actually exist

I dont have that dictionary but have many books on Egyptian magic and religion.

Here's a working link to an excerpt from his 1964 book:

http://credomutwa.com/books/indaba-my-children/

I haven't read through this one yet.

You're right - perhaps the background information doesn't exist and 'Jabulon' is something new he's come up with. I'd like to know.

[size_of_light]

I thought you found a book to download. It is in the section on the IV degree.
I read through it and cant say there is anything wrong wit it, certainly nothing that indicates some evil deity. There seems to be nothing to link it to the spirit of bael from the lesser key of solomon as some people seem to think.

There are torrents available but I haven't downloaded it.

I don't know much about OTO or it's rituals, but if the book was referring to a negative entity, I don't imagine the text would contain any overt clues to that.

[size_of_light]

A poem by Credo that mentions Jabulon. I don't think he's a fan:

credo mutwa poem

"When kings are slain, and a pope is sent to hell, when on a marble slab..a murdered princess lies, a pale sacrifice to the beasts that rule the stars, When out of the sky a stricken warplane falls, trailing behind it long bridal veils of flame, as missiles rage and red hot cannon roar... When the battle tank briefly rules the blood drenched plains, an iron tyrant on another's stolen throne... and it's long cannon shatters the trembling skies with sound, When nameless soldiers die friendless and unknown, in Africa's valleys or Kosovo's snow-bound plains, and whole tribes perish of hunger, disease and war... When money is built into a jail to hold humankind and love has died and compassion is unknown... and lies become truth... and truth becomes a lie in a nameless city When, in streets who have no love, numberless children know hunger and abuse... In countless homes where brute force rules supreme, women have become blood-spattered slaves, strangers to love, healing and respect, strangers to the gentle and comforting word... Whose guilty shoulders must bear the heavy beam of crucifixion, all the ill we see? Whose quivering back must bear the barbed scourge? For all the evil and all the pain we have known Weavers of lies, brewers of lies, who can strike at people with weapons of the night against which no armour and no shield can prevail. The written word is their poison-coated sword, the tinkeling coin their cull and crop of maize... Murderers of nations, Africa's deadliest foes, I curse your footsteps wherever you may go, In whichever cave or dungheap you may hide, I curse you all...may Heaven blast your eyes. Tell Jabulon, the demon you call God, Nomabhunu's son defies him to his face, I swear by the stones on my mother's sacred grave, that as from this moment, I will fight you to the end. Against your kind, against your Masters too, I will not cease to raise the Sword of Light. For all you have done and all you have yet to do, I will fight you to the ending of my days....." - Credo Mutwa

[marpat]

There are torrents available but I haven't downloaded it.

I don't know much about OTO or it's rituals, but if the book was referring to a negative entity, I don't imagine the text would contain any overt clues to that.

Yes but you cant say something represents love and unity if its nature is the opposite of that can you otherwise people would notice this. If you are told that a word means love and unity, the most high god, etc. then that is what that word will mean and the emotions evoked will be of that kind.

It likes when people say the OTO is a mind control cult. How can it be when its purpose is to help people to discover their own true will. It certainly does not dictate moral behaviour but expects people to find out what is truly moral to themselves. If the inner aspect of something opposes its outer aspects then you have a division, and a house divided against itself cannot stand.

[marpat]

A poem by Credo that mentions Jabulon. I don't think he's a fan:

credo mutwa poem

"When kings are slain, and a pope is sent to hell, when on a marble slab..a murdered princess lies, a pale sacrifice to the beasts that rule the stars, When out of the sky a stricken warplane falls, trailing behind it long bridal veils of flame, as missiles rage and red hot cannon roar... When the battle tank briefly rules the blood drenched plains, an iron tyrant on another's stolen throne... and it's long cannon shatters the trembling skies with sound, When nameless soldiers die friendless and unknown, in Africa's valleys or Kosovo's snow-bound plains, and whole tribes perish of hunger, disease and war... When money is built into a jail to hold humankind and love has died and compassion is unknown... and lies become truth... and truth becomes a lie in a nameless city When, in streets who have no love, numberless children know hunger and abuse... In countless homes where brute force rules supreme, women have become blood-spattered slaves, strangers to love, healing and respect, strangers to the gentle and comforting word... Whose guilty shoulders must bear the heavy beam of crucifixion, all the ill we see? Whose quivering back must bear the barbed scourge? For all the evil and all the pain we have known Weavers of lies, brewers of lies, who can strike at people with weapons of the night against which no armour and no shield can prevail. The written word is their poison-coated sword, the tinkeling coin their cull and crop of maize... Murderers of nations, Africa's deadliest foes, I curse your footsteps wherever you may go, In whichever cave or dungheap you may hide, I curse you all...may Heaven blast your eyes. Tell Jabulon, the demon you call God, Nomabhunu's son defies him to his face, I swear by the stones on my mother's sacred grave, that as from this moment, I will fight you to the end. Against your kind, against your Masters too, I will not cease to raise the Sword of Light. For all you have done and all you have yet to do, I will fight you to the ending of my days....." - Credo Mutwa

Maybe he should start looking at his own tribal trdaitions. The zulu use a lot of blood sacrifice, which Icke claims was instituted to feed the reptilians, so really Credo and his tribe are part of the mechanism that keeps the reptilians well stocked with blood. I have looked into zulu blood sacrifice and it is quite common. I notice in one of Ickes books he claims to have seen really evil freemason ritual but I was wondering exactly where he saw such things.

Perhaps he forgets the excessivle violent African genocides that seem to occur often. I think he is just trying to cash in on his fame, knowing full well that Ickes fans will buy his material if he sticks to a similar theme.

[nihil]

.

Or maybe you could just turn back to your Cloaked Satanism .

.

[nihil]

Credo Mutwa: Throughout South Africa, amongst many tribes, you’ll find stories of these amazing creatures who are capable of changing from reptile to human being, and from reptile to any other animal of their choice. And these creatures, sir, do really exist. No matter where you go throughout Southern, Eastern, Western, and Central Africa, you’ll find that the description of these creatures is the same. Even amongst tribes which never, throughout their long history, had contact with each other at all.

So, there ARE such creatures. Where they come from, I will never claim to know, sir. But they are associated with certain stars in the sky, and one of these stars is a large group of stars which is part of the Milky Way, which our people call Ingiyab, which means “The Great Serpent”. And there is a red star, a redish star, near the tip of this huge rim of stars which our people call IsoneNkanyamba.

Now, this star called IsoneNkanyamba, I managed to find its English name. It is the star called Alpha Centauri, in English. Now, this, sir, is something that is worth investigating. Why is it that well over 500 tribes in parts of Africa which I’ve visited in the last 40 or 50 years or so, all of them describe similar creatures?

It is said that these creatures feed on us human beings; that they, at one time, challenged God Himself to war, because they wanted full control of the universe. And God fought a terrible battle against them and He defeated them, injured them, and forced them to hide in cities underground.

They hide in deep cavities underground, because they are always feeling cold. In these cavities, we are told, there are huge fires which are kept going by slaves, human, zombie-like slaves. And, it is further said that these Zuswazi, these Imbulu, or whatever you choose to call them, are not capable of eating solid food. They either eat human blood, or they eat that power, the energy that is generated when human beings, on the surface of the Earth, are fighting and killing each other in large numbers.

I met people who have fled from the early Masaki in Rwanda, from years ago, and these people were horrified by what was happening in their country. They said that the slaughter of the Hutus by the Watusi, and the Watusi by the Hutus, is actually feeding the Imanujela, monsters. Because the Imanujela like to inhale the energy that is generated by masses of people being terrified or being killed by other people.

...

[nihil]

Credo Mutwa: Now, let me point out an interesting thing, sir. If you study the languages of all African nations, you find within the languages of our people words which are similar to Oriental, Middle-Eastern, and even Native American words. And the word Imanujela means “the Lord who came”. A word that anyone can discover in Rwanda, amongst the Rwandan Hutu and Watusi people, is very similar to the Herbrew word Immanuel, which means “the Lord is with us”. Imanujela, “the ones who came, the Lords who are here”.

Our people believe, sir, that we, the people of this Earth, are not masters of our own lives, really, although we are made to think that we are. Our people say, that is, Black people of all tribes, all of the initiated ones, all of the shamans everywhere in Africa, when they get to trust you and share their deepest secrets with you, they say that [with] the Imanujela, there is Imbulu. And there is another name by which these creatures are known. This name is Chitauli. Now, the word Chitauli means “the dictators, the ones who tell us the law”. In other words, “they who tell us, secretly, what we are to do”. Now, it is said that these Chitauli did a number of things to us when they came to this planet.

Please forgive me, but I must share this story with you. It is one of the strangest stories that you find everywhere in Africa in shamanic secret societies and other places where the remnant of our ancient knowledge and wisdom are still preserved. It is that, originally, the Earth was covered by a very thick blanket of fog or mist. That people could not actually see the Sun in the sky, except as a nimble of light. And they also saw the Moon at night as a gentle claw of light in the sky, because there was this heavy mist. And the rain was always falling in a steady drizzle. There was no thunder, however. There were no storms.

The world was thickly covered with great forests, great jungles, and people lived in peace on Earth at that time. People were happy and it is said, at that time, we human beings did not have the power of speech. We only made funny sounds like happy monkeys and baboons, but we did not have speech as we now have it. And in those centuries, people spoke to each other through their mind.

A man could call his wife thinking about her, thinking about the shape of her face, the smell of her body, and the feel of hair as a woman. That a hunter would go out into the bush and call out for animals to come, and the animals would select one of their number which was old and tired, and this animal would offer itself to the hunter so that he may kill it quickly and take it as meat to his cave.

There was no violence against animals. There was no violence against Nature by human beings at that time. Man used to ask for food from Nature. He used to come to a tree and think about fruit, and the tree would allow some of its fruit to fall to the ground, and man would take it.

And then it is said, however, that when the Chitauli came to Earth, they arrived in terrible vessels which flew through the air, vessels which were shaped like great bowls and which made a terrible noise and a terrible fire in the sky. And the Chitauli told human beings, whom they gathered together by force with whips of lightning, that they were great gods from the sky and that from now on they would receive a number of great gifts from the god. These so-called gods, who were like human beings, but very tall, with a long tail, and with terrible burning eyes, some of them had two eyes-yellow, bright eyes-some had three eyes, the red, round eye being in the center of their forehead. These creatures then took away the great powers that human beings had: the power of speaking through the mind only, the power of moving objects with their mind only, the power of seeing into the future and into their past, and the power to travel, spiritually, to different worlds.

All of these great powers the Chitauli took away from human beings and they gave human beings a new power, now, the power of speech. But, human beings found, to their horror, that the power of speech divided human beings, instead of uniting them, because the Chitauli cunningly created different languages, and they caused a great quarrel between people. Also, the Chitauli did something which has never been done before: they gave human beings people to rule over them, and they said, “These are your kings, these are your chiefs. They have our blood in them. They are our children, and you must listen to these people because they will speak on our behalf. If you don’t, we are going punish you very terribly.”

Before the coming of the Chitauli, before the coming of the Imbulu creatures, human beings were spiritually one. But when the Chitauli came, human beings became divided, both spiritually as well as by language.

And then, human beings were given strange new feelings by the Chitauli. Human beings started to feel unsafe, and so they started making villages with very strong fences of wood around them. Human beings started becoming country makers. In other words, they started creating tribes and tribe lands, which had borders, which they defended against any possible enemy. Human beings became ambitious and greedy and they wanted to acquire wealth in the form of cattle, and sea shells.

And, another thing the Chitauli forced human beings to do, they forced human beings to mine into the Earth. The Chitauli activated human women and made them to discover minerals and metals of certain types. Women discovered copper; women discovered gold; women discovered silver. And, eventually, they were guided by the Chitauli to alloy these metals and to create new metals which had never existed in Nature before, metals such as bronze and brass and others.

Now, the Chitauli, further, removed the sacred rain-bringing mist from the sky and for the first time since creation, human beings looked up and saw stars, and the Chitauli told human beings that they have been wrong in believing that God dwelt under the Earth. “From now on,” the Chitauli told people of this Earth, “the people of Earth must believe that God is in Heaven and they must do things here on Earth which would please this God who is in Heaven.”

You see, originally, human beings had believed that God was underground, that she was a very great mother who dwelt under the Earth because they saw all the green things growing from under the Earth-the grass came from below ground, the trees grew from below ground, and the people had believed, therefore, that the dead people who died go underground. But when the Chitauli turned humans’ eyes towards the sky, people started believing, now, that God is in the sky and that those who die from this Earth don’t go underground, but go up into the sky.

And to this day, sir, throughout Africa wherever you go as an investigator, you will find this amazing-these two amazing ideas which conflict with each other.

Many African tribes believe in what is called Midzimu or Badimo. Now, the word Midzimu or Badimo means “them who are in the sky”. But, in Zulu-land, amongst my people, you find this amazing schism going hand-in-hand. There are Zulus who believe that the dead ones are the Abapansi, which means “the ones who are below, who are under the Earth”. Then there is another idea which says Abapezulu. The word Abapezulu means “those who are above”, and the word Abapansi, which is the oldest name for the spirits of the dead, means “they who are under the Earth”.

So, even today, sir, all over Africa amongst hundreds of tribes, you find this strange double-belief that the dead go into the sky, and side-by-side with the belief that the dead die and go under the Earth. This belief that the dead die and go under the Earth is said to date to the days when our people believed that God was a woman, the great Cosmic Mother. And, it is contrasted by the Abapezulu belief that God is a man who dwells in the sky.

Now, sir, another thing that the Chitauli told our people, it is said, is that we human beings are here on Earth to change the Earth and to make it suitable for “God” to come down one day and dwell in it. And it is said that they who work to change this Earth and make it safe for the serpent god, the Chitauli, to come and dwell in it, will be rewarded with great power and with great wealth.

Sir, as I have watched over many years of study, over many years of initiation of the mysteries of African shamanism, wisdom, and knowledge, I have found myself wondering why we human beings are actually destroying the Earth on which we live. We are doing something which is only done by one other species of animal, namely, the African elephant, which utterly destroys every tree in the place in which it dwells.

We human beings are doing exactly this. And wherever you go in Africa, where once there were great ancient civilizations, you find desert. For example, there is the Kalahari desert in South Africa, and under the sands of that desert, I have found the ruins of ancient cities, which means that human beings turned this stretch of land, which was once green and fertile, into a desert. And, in days when I was with explorers and safari people in the Sahara regions of Africa, I also found evidence of unbelievably ancient human habitation in places where there is nothing now but angry rock and whispering sand.

In other words, the Sahara Desert was once a fertile country and was turned into a desert by human beings. Why? I must ask myself, again and again, why are human beings being driven by insecurity, greed, and lust of power to turn the Earth into a desert in which, ultimately, no human being would ever be able to live? Why?

Although we are all aware of the terrible dangers that this will bring about, why are we cutting huge areas of jungle in Africa? Why are we on Earth carrying out the instructions which the Chitauli programmed into us? Although my mind refuses to accept this, the answer is a terrible yes, yes, yes.

Amongst the many people of wisdom who honor me with their friendship, is a man of great knowledge who lives in Israel, Dr. Sitchin. [Editor’s note: This reference is to Dr. Zecharia Sitchin, author of many provocative books about the interaction of extraterrestrial peoples with Earth humans in very ancient times.] According to the ancient books which were written by the people of Sumeria, out of clay, gods came out of the sky and forced human beings to work for them, to mine gold for them. This story is confirmed by African legends throughout Africa, that gods came out of the sky and made us into their slaves, and they made us into slaves in such a way that we would never realize that we are slaves.

One other thing that our people say is that the Chitauli prey upon us like vultures. They raise some of us, they fill some of us with great anger and great ambition, and they make these people they’ve raised into great warriors who make terrible war. But, in the end, the Chitauli do not allow these great leaders, these great war chiefs and kings, to die peacefully. The warrior chief is used to make as much war as possible, to kill as many of his people, and those he calls enemies, as possible, and then, in the end, the warrior chief dies a terrible death, with his blood being spilled by others.

And this phenomenon I have seen in my people’s history, again and again and again. Our great King Shaka Zulu, he fought over 200 great wars during the reign of some 30-something years. And then, he was slaughtered and he died a violent death. He died a broken man who, because of the death of his mother, had no longer the power to win any more battles.

And, before Shaka Zulu, there was another king who trained Shaka to become the great king that he was. That king’s name was Dingiswayo. Dingiswayo had fought great wars trying to unite the Zulu people into one great tribe. He had seen the White people of the Cape and he thought that, by uniting his people into one huge nation, he would be able to repel the threat to his people which the White people posed. But, what happened was, after winning many battles of uniting many tribes, King Dingiswayo suddenly became striken by an eye disease which made him almost blind. And he hid this secret that he could no longer see. But, that terrible secret was discovered by a woman, a queen of another tribe, called Ntombazi. Ntombazi took a battle ax and beheaded Dingiswayo with one blow, after she had lured him into her hut and given him food and beer to drink.

There is also a similar phenomenon with great White leaders: Napoleon, in Europe, who died a miserable death on his lonely island in the Atlantic Ocean; Hitler, also in Europe, who died a terrible death by putting the gun in the mouth and killing himself, we are told; Attila the Hun, who was killed by a woman, and many other great leaders who came to a sticky end after giving as much death and misery to as many people as they could.

King Shaka was stabbed to death by his half-brother, who used on him the same type of spear that he had designed to kill people as quickly as possible. And, Julius Caesar also met a similar fate after he, like our Shaka Zulu, had conquered many nations.

Always the warrior hero dies a death that he, really, should not die. King Arthur, in England, was killed by his own son, Mordred after a long and courageous reign. I could go on and on and on.

Now, all these things, if you bring them together, they show that whether people laugh at this or not, whether people scoff at this or not, there is a certain power that is guiding we human beings toward the dark river of self-destruction. And the sooner many of us become aware of this, the better, perhaps, we might be able to deal with it.

...

[size_of_light]

Yes but you cant say something represents love and unity if its nature is the opposite of that can you otherwise people would notice this. If you are told that a word means love and unity, the most high god, etc. then that is what that word will mean and the emotions evoked will be of that kind.

It likes when people say the OTO is a mind control cult. How can it be when its purpose is to help people to discover their own true will. It certainly does not dictate moral behaviour but expects people to find out what is truly moral to themselves. If the inner aspect of something opposes its outer aspects then you have a division, and a house divided against itself cannot stand.

I'm not particularly casting any aspersions on OTO since I don't know enough about it, but as a general point, just because a text uses words like 'love', 'unity' and 'most high god' doesn't mean it's off the hook and must be 'good'.

Love for what? Unity with what? Most high god, according to whom?

On the surface of the page it could all read as wonderful, well-intentioned and holy, but there are secret levels of understanding to many texts, so frankly, I think it's a dead end using the content of this book to argue the nature of the J-man.

[marpat]

.

Or maybe you could just turn back to your Cloaked Satanism .

.

Why dont you leave debates to the grown ups if you are just going to post bits of crap.

[nihil]

Credo Mutwa: Sir, I believe that these creatures are everywhere on Earth, and with respect, sir, although I hate talking about myself so much, I am a person who has traveled to many parts of the world. I have been to your country, the United States, sir. I have been to Australia. I have been to Japan, amongst other countries.

And no matter where I have gone, sir, I have found people telling me about creatures like this. For example, in 1997, I visited Australia, sir, and I traveled a lot to try and find the Black people of Australia, the Aborigine. And when I did find them, they told me a number of things that astonished me very, very much. The same things that I’d found in Japan, I found in Taiwan. Everywhere where there are still shaman and traditional healers, you find these amazing stories.

Now, let me tell you, sir, what I found in Australia alone. This, that the Australian Aborigine people, who call themselves Coorie, which means “our people”: The Coorie people of Australia believe in a great creating god called Byamie, sir. A Coorie shaman, in fact, several of them, drew me pictures of this Byamie, and one of them showed me a rock painting representing this strange creator god who came out of the stars. And when they placed their drawing in front of me, what they showed was a Chitauli. I recognized it from my African initiation. It had a large head. It had large eyes, which were stressed by the artist. It had no mouth, and it had long arms and incredibly long legs. Sir, this was a typical depiction of a Chitauli which I knew from my own people in Africa.

I asked myself “Why?” Here I am in a country many thousands of miles away from Africa, and here I am seeing a being known as the Biamai or Bimi, who is a creature with which I, the African, am familiar.

Amongst the Native American people, sir, I found, for example, amongst certain tribes in America, tribes such as the Hopi people, and those people who stay in those buildings called a pueblo, I found that these people-they have got what are called Katchina creatures, where people wear masks and disguise themselves as certain creatures. And some of these Katchinas are very, very tall, with a huge round head.

Exactly as we have in Africa, I found similar creatures in America. In Africa we call these creatures Egwugwu, or, we call them by another name, called Chinyawu. The Katchina of the Native American people, and the Chinyawu of our people, are identical beings. Now, why should this be? When were American Native people and Africans in contact? When? This is one of the greatest mysteries of all time, sir. It is one of many things that I found throughout the world which left me utterly amazed.

There ARE such creatures, and the sooner skeptics amongst us face up to this fact, the better it shall be. Why is human-kind not progressing? Why are we running around in a great circle of self-destruction and mutual-destruction?

People are basically good; I believe this. People don’t want to start wars. People don’t want to destroy the world in which they stay, but there are creatures, or there is power that is driving we human beings toward self-annihilation. And the sooner we recognize this, the better.

Just now, I live in Africa. Here are my people. Here is my home. But I see Africa being destroyed in wars that make no sense whatsoever to me as an African. I look at India which, like Africa, suffered the scourge of colonialism by the French, the English, and other European powers. But India, through her independence as a country, has achieved the things which we, Africa, have failed to achieve. Why?

India has exploded the atomic bomb and is today one of the feared nations of this world. India has launched satellites into orbit. India, although she has the same problems as Africa has-a burgeoning population, religion as well as tribal strife-although India has got an incredibly poor section of her population, as well as an incredibly rich one, she has achieved things that Africa has failed to achieve.

Now, I ask myself “Why? Why?” Because India was established by people from Africa, and I don’t think, sir, as the Black races about this. This is a fact that, thousands of years ago, people from Africa laid the foundation of the greatest civilization of India, as well as other countries in Southeast Asia. There is overwhelming archeological evidence of this. But, why is Africa drowning in war, in disease, and in hunger? Why?

Many times, sir, I sit in my hut and I cry when I see diseases like AIDS destroying us; when I see senseless wars destroying those countries in Africa which had thrived for thousands of years.

Say, Ethiopia is a country that has been free for thousands of years. Ethiopia was once the school of all of Africa. Nigeria was once a great country with a long tradition of self-government-long, long before the White man came to Africa. But today, all of these countries and many others are being destroyed.

Today, sir, there are parts of Africa which have been totally depopulated by war and by the disease called AIDS, a disease which shows every sign of being a man-made disease. I ask myself, “Who or what is destroying Africa, and why?”

[nihil]

What is OTO ?

[marpat]

I'm not casting any particular aspersions on OTO since I don't know enough about it, but as a general point, just because a text uses words like 'love', 'unity' and 'most high god' doesn't mean it's off the hook and must be 'good'.

Love for what? Unity with what? Most high god, according to whom?

On the surface of the page it could all read as wonderful, well-intentioned and holy, but there are secret levels of understanding to many texts, so frankly, I think it's a dead end using the content of this book to argue the nature of the J-man.

Does love need an object? that is the thinking of a limited mind.

The definition of what the most high god means will depend entirely on who you talk to or the context in which it is written. It is generally meant to indicate the timeless spirit that gives life to everything, Kether, etc. Is it wrong to aspire to such a god?

In thelema the idea is unite to Nuit, the eternal goddess, the result being continuity of consciousness and bliss.

[nihil]

OTO = Cloaked Satanism

... Unless someone exposes me its finalities with no insults - Utopia :cool:

[marpat]

Nice big cut and paste job nihil, does this constitue your debate?

[marpat]

OTO = Cloaked Satanism

... Unless someone exposes me its finalities with no insults - Utopia :cool:

nihil= cloaked satanist

[nihil]

So your'e a fan of the wick'st man on the earth .

The Grandfather of George Bush .

Former CIA Leader, Drug smuggler and Warmonger .

Shameless US President, as G. W. Bush - his Alcoholic Son .

[marpat]

So your'e a fan of the wick'st man on the earth .

The Grandfather of George Bush .

CIA Leader, Drug smuggler and Warmonger .

I see you are a complete idiot

[size_of_light]

Maybe he should start looking at his own tribal trdaitions. The zulu use a lot of blood sacrifice, which Icke claims was instituted to feed the reptilians, so really Credo and his tribe are part of the mechanism that keeps the reptilians well stocked with blood. I have looked into zulu blood sacrifice and it is quite common. I notice in one of Ickes books he claims to have seen really evil freemason ritual but I was wondering exactly where he saw such things.

Perhaps he forgets the excessivle violent African genocides that seem to occur often.

I don't think Credo would argue with you. He's said a lot about African people turning against one another and engaging in all these acts, and claimed it started back in the mists of time when the visitors from the stars first arrived on earth and divided the African people with language then installed their kings to rule over them etc.

I think he is just trying to cash in on his fame, knowing full well that Ickes fans will buy his material if he sticks to a similar theme.

Maybe. I doubt it personally, but that doesn't count for very much.

[nihil]

The Biggest wars between Africans were promoted by the Occultist

Sir Cecil Rhodes

.

[nihil]

.

SATURN AS ARCHETYPE OF SATAN ??

In Greece the first race of Gods were the Titans: Gaia and Uranus, and one of their children was Kronos - Saturn, that had then some stunning similarities with the posterior satan . Both were rebellious, and both were sent in exile .

When Kronos was about to slay his own father Uranus, it was prophesied that his son would in turn someday depose him. To keep this from being fulfilled, Kronos swallowed his children as they were born. At the end of the Age of Heroes, Zeus released the Titans, making Kronos the king of the Elysian Isles to rule over the shades of the Heroes.

The Romans compared Kronos with their corn-god, Saturn. Kronos was depicted carrying a sickle, used both to gather the harvest and to castrate his father.

Satan, the Devil, represent the Left Hand Path, the Capricorn Path, the Goat.
Evil is just an excess of materialism which ignores human values.

- The Master Therion Magick Without Tears, Quotes:

Atu XV connects Hod with Tiphareth on the Tree-of-Life and has attributed to it, Capricorn and the Hebrew letter Ayin which translates as 'Eye'. The central symbol is Pan and his manifestations as Baphomet, the Goat, Shaitan, Saturn, Satan, and Shabbathai. The horns of the Goat being spiral, they represent the movement of the all-pervading energy that is the manifested universe in its true nature. This is expounded on and corroborated from the scientific viewpoint in post-Einstein, modern physics.

- My weirdest Quotes insofar .

The Devil ~ The XV Tarot is identified as the serpent in the Garden of Eden, Author of lies and promoter of evil . In Astrology is associated with Capricornus - latin word for “horned male goat” or “goat horn”, the mountain goat or even the mer(sea)-goat.


Lets see the planet which rules Capricornus: Saturn/Satan/Saturnus/Satanus


The lessons of Saturn teach man to harmonize his imagination with the immediate circumstances of his life. When Satan’s vibrations combine with the egocentric personality, people will trade their souls for temporal power.

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The definition of what the most high god means will depend entirely on who you talk to or the context in which it is written.

That's what I was saying -- surface texts are open to different interpretations.

OTO rituals could be 100% pure and positive for all I know, but in the context of a discussion about the real nature of Jahbulon, the literal statements made in this book don't really shed new light on the subject.

[biblegirl]

Most of them spoke quite freely, explaining without hesitation their views, reactions and answers to the criticisms and queries I raised. However, all but four lost their self-assurance and composure when I said, 'What about Jah-Bul-On?' Some, although they had previously told me they had been exalted to the Royal Arch, and therefore must have not only received the lecture on the name but also studied the passages and enacted the ritual relating to Jah-Bul-On, said they had never heard of it. In most cases the interviewees very rapidly brought the meeting to a close when I asked the question. Others laughed unconvincingly and extricated themselves from having to reply by jauntily saying such words as, 'Oh, that old chestnut', and passing quickly on to some other subject, normally going on the offensive with something like, 'Why are you so interested in Freemasonry in particular? Why don't you look into Christianity or something? Why do people always pick on Freemasonry?' -thereby diverting the conversation from the course I had plotted. If I insisted on returning to Jah-Bul-On, almost invariably the interview would be unceremoniously terminated. Others said that although they had heard of the word, they did not know what it meant. To them it meant God, and previously erudite Freemasons, with a precise knowledge of every other aspect of Masonry we had discussed, suddenly became vague and claimed ignorance of this most central of all Freemasonic subjects. While professing an almost total lack of knowledge of Jah-Bul-On, several dismissed it as of no real importance.
interesting read


I take it you did not get to read the OTO description of jahbulon? There is more to it than a word for when it is placed onto a hexagram in a certain way it reveals many other positive ideas.

I'm sorry if this has been explained before, what does OTO stand for? Also I am interested to know more about the hexagram thing if you have more info on that.

A poem by Credo that mentions Jabulon. I don't think he's a fan:

credo mutwa poem

...Tell Jabulon, the demon you call God, Nomabhunu's son defies him to his face, I swear by the stones on my mother's sacred grave, that as from this moment, I will fight you to the end. Against your kind, against your Masters too, I will not cease to raise the Sword of Light. For all you have done and all you have yet to do, I will fight you to the ending of my days....." - Credo Mutwa

is this indicating that even jabulon has masters?


Perhaps he forgets the excessivle violent African genocides that seem to occur often. I think he is just trying to cash in on his fame, knowing full well that Ickes fans will buy his material if he sticks to a similar theme.

except i think he lives in a shack in the middle of nowhere with no phone

I don't think Credo would argue with you. He's said a lot about African people turning against one another and engaging in all these acts, and claimed it started back in the mists of time when the visitors from the stars first arrived on earth and divided the African people with language then installed their kings to rule over them etc.


from my understanding, the same concept exists here in native american history:the people of this continent were peaceful and had no concept of war or violence until the star people (or in some cases white man) got involved

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is this indicating that even jabulon has masters?

Sounds like it. Maybe one of those Russian doll things that goes on into infinity.


from my understanding, the same concept exists here in native american history:the people of this continent were peaceful and had no concept of war or violence until the star people (or in some cases white man) got involved

Seems to be a common theme.

[nihil]

I don't take this voice that a thing with three heads is somewhere hidden in central africa . But this lore of a king that hides into the depths of the earth goes way back than the Masons . A great author as René Guénon states that this is an ancestral Tradition . Even the Pueblos in Arizona have a similar lore .