Religion is a deception

[reality man]

Sorry John - I got to jump in here and side with abasque. God (the enregetic non dual source of all life) doesn't casue the harm - it is man with his thought made pictures of reality which cause the harm.

Organized Religion offers many thought made pictures of reality - which of course, are not reality at all - but merely an intellectual delusion - like a smoke screen to obscure the true reality of God - which is what we all are at our deepest level - ONE SOURCE masquerading as the many.

Maybe John, it was organized religion which perpetrated the wrongs against you - God (the matrix of life) is beyond all of our silly religious ideas.

WE CANNOT STUFF THE TOTALITY OF LIFE INTO OUR OUTMODED AND TINY CONCEPTS, PHILOSOPHIES AND RELIGIONS ...
... When we do this - then we cause harm!

[tannah]

I think tjohn is more aware than that.
Let's be honest and accept that we still don't really know God if we go by the myths of the bible and quran. I'm finding it all rather comical nowadays. For example, the real groovy people at the blues jam tonight at my local pub, none of which really believe the bible story. It's a farce to think these really alive spirits will end up in hell for not believing in "Jesus". Ya know, go spread your BS elsewhere idiots.:D Real alive spirits going to hell, coz your book says so? Look, just fuck off.:mad:

[miracles]

[quote]... The kingdom of heaven is within you

What gospel did Jesus preach? The gospel of the kingdom of the heavens. What are the requirements to attain the kingdom of heaven? Repent confess believe and be baptised. Above Jesus was speaking to believers who had already done this. Not the general populace who have not yet met the requirements, this scripture is the number one plagurized scripture by all new age false religions.



... It is written in your own scriptues that God said "You are Gods", God called those people Gods, the very people to whom his message was given.



Who was jesus speaking to here? The jewish hierarchy and the elite leaders, when he called them gods, he was reffering to their leadership positions in high places amongst the communities as judges and so on and so forth. Men of means and total power. IE the pharasees.




... Whoever does not become like a child will never see the kingdom of God


What do little children do? They trust, believe, love and obey their parents without question. (good little children, that is)


... The wind blows where it wishes, you hear the sound it makes but do not know where it comes from or where it goes - it is like that with everyone who is born of the spirit.



Correct, born again after having repented confessed believed and been baptised. (one does not receive the spirit of the kingdom of the heavens until this has been done)


These are a few small examples - and I always get bad reactions from so called "christians" when I ask them about it. Maybe you caould shed a light on why that may be the case???


I hope you dont take this as a bad reaction form a christian who is shedding some light on the above scriptures, however I fully expect a bad reaction from all non believers as per usual. This is the basis of the christian religion folks, repent confess believe (on Christ) and be baptised, we know our bible and we know what it means. When you pluck scriptures out of the bible and use them at your pleasure, that's fine, but undertsand the true meanings and never quote scripture to a christian to win an arguement with a christian. You will lose every time. The scriptures belong to us. And to the seeker of truth who has become like a little child, they do not belong to God hating, bible hating, christian hating, maniacs like many in these forums. (five of whom are on my ignore list. LOL) The silence is beautiful. Praise the living God

[tjohn]

Such as?
Show me this pain that "My" God did to you personally and the rest of the world, it's strange I haven't heard anyone complaining about my God.
People on here are complaining about your version of God, aren't they?

Don't beat around the bush please, Me Adbasque want you TJOHN to show me and this forum where did my God cause s much pain?

You say you want to help me see, ok then here's your chance, show me that awful God of mine and his evil deeds.The evil deeds of 'God' have already been shown on these threads from both the Bible and the Qur'an!

Then also look around you at the dreadful state of the world, through what man is doing through the belief in such religious gods as yours.

[adbasque]

[/B]People on here are complaining about your version of God, aren't they?[B]
So few people complained what about the billions who didn't?


The evil deeds of 'God' have already been shown on these threads from both the Bible and the Qur'an!

John, I asked you not to beat around the bush didn't I?
I asked you, to show me in your own words, link everything to the religion with a conslusive evidence, not opinions, but with facts!! lol


Then also look around you at the dreadful state of the world, through what man is doing through the belief in such religious gods as yours.

I have been looking at the dreadful state of this world and thanks to religion that helped open my eyes to more hidden things and people who really are behind what's happening in the world.

Which you seem so conveniently forget to mention, people like the Elite, the Rothschilds and their friends, the same people who call themselves Jews but they are not anymore Jewish than you or me.

The people who used religion to suit their agenda, how?
Simple, They associated themselves with Judaism, Why not Christianity or Islam?
The answer is not a choice, they have used Judaism because at the time it had less followers than the latter two religions.

They sacrificed mainly lot of innocent people to create the dreadful world we live in today, but you seem to ignore the real facts, and sticking to your stubornness, and accuse religion for everything.

We have explained on this thread and others how religion was hijacked and framed by those people who wanted people to react exactly as you're doing right now, their aim is to hate God, and look at religion as the source of all evil, and they have succeeded in doing just that with some people like yourself.
They won't stop at this, they want this ideology globalised, with any means possible

It's evidently clear the things that are happening right now, you have failed to show any link whatsoever between evil deeds and religion, while deep down you know there aren't any, never were, and never will be, If God wanted to punish us without reason, he could've created and toss us all in hell, without any reason, do you think you're going to stop him by your constant denial of his mercy or existence?

You keep repeating that you're not against God but against religion, but what you failed to show is, that religion isn't his words and his commands, you keep saying that it's man made, despite the fact that you've been proven that.

1) you're wrong
2) it's impossible for a man (men) to create such a religion
3) there's an overwhelming pieces of evidence that religion is divine.

Questions

1) Where is your evidence that it is man made?
2) Where is your evidence that religion is the cause of all the miseries in the world?
3) Link any evil deed to the Holy books?
Say for instance kill so and so, and then link it to a fact, that so and so was killed and taken directly from the holy book.
Can you do that?

Come on you know your "so called" arguments are purely based on your own personal opinion not on facts.

It's like arguing with science, whatever is proven scientifically if you don't like it, you will reject it, that doesn't change the nature of what science has discovered.

That's exactly what's you're doing, you and very few people like you on this thread.

It's not because you decided that religions are not God's commands that makes it so.
You're wrong and you know it, maybe you have you reasons why you don't want to admit it.

I have a question for you, slightly off topic but I need an answer if you don't mind.

What are your views on Albert Einstein?
What are your thoughts of him when you hear his name?


Good luck, you're going to need it :D

[adbasque]

Then also look around you at the dreadful state of the world, through what man is doing through the belief in such religious gods as yours.

Now there are two possibilities John either you're the biggest liar ever! or the biggest ignorant, which is it?

I take it the bankers that brought the world economy to it's knees are devout Christians and Muslims?

The Rothschilds who created wars, conflicts, starvation, diseases, genocides are devout Muslims or Christians?

So how are you going to link the aforementioned to your deluded views?

Now, we know what these people did, doing and will be doing, don't we?
Show me where in the Bible or the Qu'ran where it says do all of these things?
So they went ahead and did them, if you can prove it right now, without being evasive again, or some pathetic comments such as it's already been shown and discussed in "These" threads, I will forget about religion right now.

But show me clear evidence, if you can't then please give us all a break and quit this forum altogether and never to return, how about that? deal??

Ready John for the challenge?

I am just showing you that I am not afraid and for the others please don't come to the rescue here and then derail it again.

I want John to answer these questions, nobody else if you don't mind, thank you.

[nirvana00]

Apparently,believing in shape shifting reptilians, UFO, anunakis and all kinds of fantasist ramblings by a person whose sanity itself is in question is very sensible.

[adbasque]

Apparently,believing in shape shifting reptilians, UFO, anunakis and all kinds of fantasist ramblings by a person whose sanity itself is in question is very sensible.

Yes note, that no evidence was ever been presented, but things with more historical evidence and facts are dissmissed as myths now lol

They've turned myths into reality and reality into myths.

But we are brainwashed :)
It's ok

[nirvana00]

The people who used religion to suit their agenda, how?
Simple, They associated themselves with Judaism, Why not Christianity or Islam?
The answer is not a choice, they have used Judaism because at the time it had less followers than the latter two religions.



Christianity and Islam have been infiltrated.

[adbasque]

Christianity and Islam have been infiltrated.

Absolutely and you know what not just these religions, practically every belief system, every regime has been infiltrated and used it to their advantage.

[tjohn]

So few people complained what about the billions who didn't?The billions of people who don't complain are deluded through religion.

John, I asked you not to beat around the bush didn't I? I asked you, to show me in your own words, link everything to the religion with a conslusive evidence, not opinions, but with facts!! lol

I have been looking at the dreadful state of this world and thanks to religion that helped open my eyes to more hidden things and people who really are behind what's happening in the world.Your Religion (and all Religion) can indeed open people's eyes to some facts, however at the same time Religion blinds people to the fact that Religion is a deception.
Which you seem so conveniently forget to mention, people like the Elite, the Rothschilds and their friends, the same people who call themselves Jews but they are not anymore Jewish than you or me.Jews cannot prove they are Jews by genealogy that's true, because the records were destroyed Circa 60 AD..

So what? We are all human are we not? Although it seems that some are less human that others - and you have not answered my repeated question of how your 'perfect' and 'Merciful' God could have made us all while at the same time the world is in conflict and war.

The people who used religion to suit their agenda, how? Simple, They associated themselves with Judaism, Why not Christianity or Islam?lol Hey, I have an idea! Believe in God (if one wishes) but scrap Religions that divide us! :D

The answer is not a choice, they have used Judaism because at the time it had less followers than the latter two religions.

They sacrificed mainly lot of innocent people to create the dreadful world we live in today, but you seem to ignore the real facts, and sticking to your stubornness, and accuse religion for everything.So your Religion has not sacrificed innocent people??? I think you should read your Qur'an again and think.

We have explained on this thread and others how religion was hijacked and framed by those people who wanted people to react exactly as you're doing right now, their aim is to hate God, and look at religion as the source of all evil, and they have succeeded in doing just that with some people like yourself.Sure 'Religion' has been hijacked but that is what religion is with its endless rules and doctrines!

They won't stop at this, they want this ideology globalised, with any means possible

It's evidently clear the things that are happening right now, you have failed to show any link whatsoever between evil deeds and religion, while deep down you know there aren't any, never were, and never will be, If God wanted to punish us without reason, he could've created and toss us all in hell, without any reason, do you think you're going to stop him by your constant denial of his mercy or existence? :confused: I do not deny the existence of GOD I deny that your God is GOD and the reason that I deny that your God is GOD, is because of what your religion says! I know because I know myself and I know that I am part of the whole - whereas you are also part of the whole but you do not really know yourself because you have been indoctrinated through Religion.

You keep repeating that you're not against God but against religion, but what you failed to show is, that religion isn't his words and his commands, you keep saying that it's man made, despite the fact that you've been proven that. What can you prove apart from writings in a Book (or books)?? Was you there at the time?

1) you're wrong And you are right when all you have is the Book (or books) to tell you what to think? :rolleyes:
2) it's impossible for a man (men) to create such a religionYou underestimate the minds of the 'Elite' when the Books were written. In cold 'intellect' you are far below them.
3) there's an overwhelming pieces of evidence that religion is divine. Let me tell you something. Everything is 'divine' otherwise God would not be God.

Questions

1) Where is your evidence that it is man made?Where is your evidence that Religion is not man-made apart from you believing what is written in your books? See, I am writing to you now, so why should you believe your book(s) above what I (and several others) write? Answer: because your religion tells you so, which is an interpretation of your Book! Please, stop following book(s) and Religion and start following what you really are - a creation of the GOD of all.

2) Where is your evidence that religion is the cause of all the miseries in the world?Because I see the miseries in the world. Don't you see them? Yet you would have us believe that your god is perfect. :p

3) Link any evil deed to the Holy books?The evil of the Islamic religion has been plainly pointed out on these threads many times and often taken from your own Book, yet somehow you deny those evil deeds!

In regard to the Bible which you say is about the same God, take a look at the website: http://www.evilbible.com/

What are your views on Albert Einstein?
What are your thoughts of him when you hear his name?Albert was a great mathematician and a very intelligent man with a good heart. His version of God was not the same as yours.
http://www.spaceandmotion.com/albert-einstein-god-religion-theology.htm

[tannah]

[quote=reality man;1220374]



What gospel did Jesus preach? The gospel of the kingdom of the heavens. What are the requirements to attain the kingdom of heaven? Repent confess believe and be baptised. Above Jesus was speaking to believers who had already done this. Not the general populace who have not yet met the requirements, this scripture is the number one plagurized scripture by all new age false religions.




Who was jesus speaking to here? The jewish hierarchy and the elite leaders, when he called them gods, he was reffering to their leadership positions in high places amongst the communities as judges and so on and so forth. Men of means and total power. IE the pharasees.



What do little children do? They trust, believe, love and obey their parents without question. (good little children, that is)



Correct, born again after having repented confessed believed and been baptised. (one does not receive the spirit of the kingdom of the heavens until this has been done)



I hope you dont take this as a bad reaction form a christian who is shedding some light on the above scriptures, however I fully expect a bad reaction from all non believers as per usual. This is the basis of the christian religion folks, repent confess believe (on Christ) and be baptised, we know our bible and we know what it means. When you pluck scriptures out of the bible and use them at your pleasure, that's fine, but undertsand the true meanings and never quote scripture to a christian to win an arguement with a christian. You will lose every time. The scriptures belong to us. And to the seeker of truth who has become like a little child, they do not belong to God hating, bible hating, christian hating, maniacs like many in these forums. (five of whom are on my ignore list. LOL) The silence is beautiful. Praise the living God

Somebody tell this coward he believes in fairy tales.

[fallensoul]

Such as?
Show me this pain that "My" God did to you personally and the rest of the world, it's strange I haven't heard anyone complaining about my God.

Well the country I was living was once a country of free humans who believed in what they wanted to. And when the Christian crusades become many suffered and died in the name of your god and our country has become very Christian, people don't even remember their roots anymore. You destroyed a whole way of life by forcing your shitty religion on this country.

That good for starters?

[reality man]

I hope you dont take this as a bad reaction form a christian who is shedding some light on the above scriptures, however I fully expect a bad reaction from all non believers as per usual. This is the basis of the christian religion folks, repent confess believe (on Christ) and be baptised, we know our bible and we know what it means. When you pluck scriptures out of the bible and use them at your pleasure, that's fine, but undertsand the true meanings and never quote scripture to a christian to win an arguement with a christian. You will lose every time. The scriptures belong to us. And to the seeker of truth who has become like a little child, they do not belong to God hating, bible hating, christian hating, maniacs like many in these forums. (five of whom are on my ignore list. LOL) The silence is beautiful. Praise the living God


Mmm ... Is it just me, or does a certain person remind everyone of a guy who would gladly start a war to furthur his religious ideas?:confused:

And I cannot grasp why Miracles enters a forum titled "Religion is a deception" and then puts people on ignore - What miracles - did you expect to find us all agree with your wacky black n' white translation of the bible?:eek:

By the way miracles - I used to be a "christian" as you call it - until I woke up that is and smelled the coffee. If Jesus really existed, then he must be very dismayed at those who claim to be following in his name - very dismayed indeed!:(

In response to tannah's request - heh Miracles - you beleive in fairytales!!!

[adbasque]

The billions of people who don't complain are deluded through religion.

Only you and the few people here that aren't?


Your Religion (and all Religion) can indeed open people's eyes to some facts, however at the same time Religion blinds people to the fact that Religion is a deception.

So you admit that religion can open people's eyes, (I like the arrogant way you put it, people's eyes, that excludes you even though you learnt everything from religion )

And it blinds people to the fact that religion is a deception??? :D
It's warning people about the real deception and blinding them from the fact religion is a deception?? Lol

You're not making any sense, let's face it John you have no idea what you're talking about do you? Be honest you're mixing things up, you're completely lost in your own words and your own mixed views, you don't really know what to believe and what not to believe don't you?




Jews cannot prove they are Jews by genealogy that's true, because the records were destroyed Circa 60 AD..
So what? We are all human are we not? Although it seems that some are less human that others


Where did you hear that? The only people to think that, are the Elite and their slaves, and some arrogant people, not religion, religion always show equality, because of religions that there's now the equality amongst human beings, religion rejects those who reject God and his word, which is pretty logical.



- and you have not answered my repeated question of how your 'perfect' and 'Merciful' God could have made us all while at the same time the world is in conflict and war.

First God made us all with (batteries included) Free will
What we do is up to us, we have guidance on how to treat one another.
Some people decide to follow their egos, their arrogance, listen to what the devil is whispering to them, they become soulless, without empathy, they lose everything that makes them real human beings.

They become little devils on earth and they do the devil's work.
Men are making wars, nothing to do with religion, men will always find ways to make wars, because some men love to dominate, to enslave, love power and lots of money (wealth)

Remember "Free will" God reserves his judgements after the fact, after the act has taken place.

Don't tell me I am not answering your question, you on the other hand didn't, you went to beat around the bush one more time, it was a direct question, which deserves a direct answer but you didn't answer it.


lol Hey, I have an idea! Believe in God (if one wishes) but scrap Religions that divide us!

And then worshipping which God exactly?
What's the point in scraping religion?
Religion is here to show you how to worship your God, how can you just believe in God? What's the point in just believing in him?
Ok let's assume I believe in God and then what?
You don't get it John seriously do you? You don't know what is religion, it's real purpose, your purpose of being alive etc.. do you? Absolutely no idea Oh dear

Again Religion has not divided us, but your views are dividing us, your ideology is dividing.

I can see that religion brings millions of people together, the divider is Satan and his army.


So your Religion has not sacrificed innocent people??? I think you should read your Qur'an again and think.
No John it has never sacrificed innocent people, religion merely defended itself against the constant attacks, even at this moment in time on this forum in this same topic :rolleyes:

Evil people did sacrifice innocent people for their personal gain nothing whatsoever to do with God and his commands.


Sure 'Religion' has been hijacked but that is what religion is with its endless rules and doctrines!

Do you realise what you're saying? You're not making any sense whatsoever:rolleyes:


I do not deny the existence of GOD I deny that your God is GOD and the reason that I deny that your God is GOD, is because of what your religion says! I know because I know myself and I know that I am part of the whole - whereas you are also part of the whole but you do not really know yourself because you have been indoctrinated through Religion.

You don't know my religion John, so leave it out please, you have no idea what my religion says, or any other religion for that matter.

So what is our purpose then and more importantly what is our relationship with God?

Why did he make us?
Why doesn't he stop all this pain and suffering?
He is a God isn't he? So if this God of your exist how come we are suffering then? How come there are innocent people who are being killed everyday?

Sorry John didn't catch that?:confused:


What can you prove apart from writings in a Book (or books)?? Was you there at the time?

No I was not there neither were you, but the Book is the evidence, the book shows you lots of evidence and clues where to find more evidence and much more, it's not just about evidence it's about the way of life.

Indoctrinated? it's fine I'd rather be indoctrinated by my maker than the Rothschilds which you are supporting at least unwinglingly and supporting their views.


And you are right when all you have is the Book (or books) to tell you what to think? :rolleyes:
You underestimate the minds of the 'Elite' when the Books were written. In cold 'intellect' you are far below them.
Let me tell you something. Everything is 'divine' otherwise God would not be God.

Always as arrogant John, the book tells me what to do, let me tell you something, everything you know today whether you admit it or not has come from a religion, now you can deny it which I am pretty sure you'll do.

You were NOT born with this knowledge and this rules, they were taught to your father and mother, and to their fathers and mothers and so on and so forth, until you were brought up in the same way,

now you think you know it all by yourself like a big boy that you are, while the rest of us still checking that book,this is nothing but your arrogance and you underestimate others, you look down on other peple, which shows that you suffer from a delusional superiority complex, which could originate from an inferiority complex.




Where is your evidence that Religion is not man-made apart from you believing what is written in your books? See, I am writing to you now, so why should you believe your book(s) above what I (and several others) write? Answer: because your religion tells you so, which is an interpretation of your Book! Please, stop following book(s) and Religion and start following what you really are - a creation of the GOD of all.

Simple, because you and others here talk in your name, you don't say anything more that "I" You say is hardly the same to what is in the religion, with tons of evidence, of all sorts, why on bloody earth would I listen to you, who do you think you are? :D

Is that what you're hoping? That you will have your followers and the little big man John?? I have told you before it's your delusion that is driving away from any form of truth.

The books have evidence in them, have facts, things you've obviously either missed or decided to reject because you have your personal agenda, to have your own followers, except there's snag, you got tangled up in your own delusion.



Because I see the miseries in the world. Don't you see them? Yet you would have us believe that your god is perfect. :p

God is the perfection, the miseries are caused by men. we can't keep going around, if not then why isn't your God making a stop to the miseries??


The evil of the Islamic religion has been plainly pointed out on these threads many times and often taken from your own Book, yet somehow you deny those evil deeds!

No, Islam haters pointed few times on things which were clearly taken out of context, and we have shown you how your sources were nothing but liars with an agenda to destroy Islam, because Islam is a thorn in their plan, they did the same thing to Christianity, and people like yourself are their faithful customers.

There's no evil in religion, you're making things up, you always accuse with no evidence or facts, everything with you is in the air, or abstract.

Nothing to point at (Hot air)


In regard to the Bible which you say is about the same God, take a look at the website: http://www.evilbible.com/

I don't need to look these links, I have the real sources, what is the Bible what is the Qu'ran what is the Old testament, you on the other hand are blindly following the God and religion haters who are continuously attacking God, his words, and his followers, and they are the ones causing division.

Wakey wakey ::rolleyes:


Albert was a great mathematician and a very intelligent man with a good heart. His version of God was not the same as yours.
http://www.spaceandmotion.com/albert-einstein-god-religion-theology.htm


:D you think so?
Albert Einstein was everything but a genius, he was a Zionist cheat, as a matter of fact he was crap at maths, go and read his real biography.

Oh dear John you really disappoint me:)

[tannah]

Mmm ... Is it just me, or does a certain person remind everyone of a guy who would gladly start a war to furthur his religious ideas?:confused:

And I cannot grasp why Miracles enters a forum titled "Religion is a deception" and then puts people on ignore - What miracles - did you expect to find us all agree with your wacky black n' white translation of the bible?:eek:

By the way miracles - I used to be a "christian" as you call it - until I woke up that is and smelled the coffee. If Jesus really existed, then he must be very dismayed at those who claim to be following in his name - very dismayed indeed!:(

In response to tannah's request - heh Miracles - you beleive in fairytales!!!

Funny, because I walked into a shop and bought a bible, and yes it does belong to me....so I don't know what this Miracle man is bleating on about.
If a salesman comes to my door and won't let me try out a product, he can bog off! I read the bible plenty of times, and even had a small period in my lfie where I blindly chose to believe it all. Now I'm a growd up, I realize there is direct access to God, that not even Jesus can get in the way of, let alone an unoriginal thinker like Miracle mon.

God's church is life itself. There is no fall. Sure, we get frustrated as we learn to stand up straight and on our own two feet, fight our wars and learn from our mistakes. But slowly we're going to outgrow most of where we're at, and it won't be so frustrating to live a life based on treating others equally, for example.

The deception in most belief systems is that belief itself has deceived you from the light of reality.

If nothing changes, christianity will not attract new generations of believers. Within 50 years it will be assigned to the history books. And the problems within the muslim faith still need to be faced.

[tjohn]

Mmm ... Is it just me, or does a certain person remind everyone of a guy who would gladly start a war to furthur his religious ideas?:confused:

And I cannot grasp why Miracles enters a forum titled "Religion is a deception" and then puts people on ignore - What miracles - did you expect to find us all agree with your wacky black n' white translation of the bible?:eek: He came here to 'prove' us wrong, which he can't do. :D
By the way miracles - I used to be a "christian" as you call it - until I woke up that is and smelled the coffee. If Jesus really existed, then he must be very dismayed at those who claim to be following in his name - very dismayed indeed!:(Yes, depending on one's interpretation of course.
In response to tannah's request - heh Miracles - you beleive in fairytales!!!Well, though I have not seen one myself a belief in fairies seems harmless enough and I have found much more genuine love amongst many Pagan people than in the Christian or Islamic or Judaic Religions.

The Bible does speak some truth, I freely admit that. So Miracles, how about the miracle of "by their fruit you will know them"? You do know what the "fruit" means don't you, Miracles? OK if you don't know, it means produce as in what is produced.

So what has Religion (including yours) produced? Strife and the murder of billions of people (including children) that your 'God' says 'He' created.

[reality man]

Funny, because I walked into a shop and bought a bible, and yes it does belong to me....so I don't know what this Miracle man is bleating on about.
If a salesman comes to my door and won't let me try out a product, he can bog off! I read the bible plenty of times, and even had a small period in my lfie where I blindly chose to believe it all. Now I'm a growd up, I realize there is direct access to God, that not even Jesus can get in the way of, let alone an unoriginal thinker like Miracle mon.

God's church is life itself. There is no fall. Sure, we get frustrated as we learn to stand up straight and on our own two feet, fight our wars and learn from our mistakes. But slowly we're going to outgrow most of where we're at, and it won't be so frustrating to live a life based on treating others equally, for example.

The deception in most belief systems is that belief itself has deceived you from the light of reality.

If nothing changes, christianity will not attract new generations of believers. Within 50 years it will be assigned to the history books. And the problems within the muslim faith still need to be faced.


Well said tannah - through years of getting tangled up in beleif I finally managed to get untangled - this is when I woke up and smelled the roses of reality (the life/spirit within us and all around us). I realized that beleif stands in the way of our perception of reality - just like any smokescreen of thought does.

We don't need no "great" one to revere (no Jesus, no Buddha etc) - we may respect our teachers - yes - but they cannot be much of a teacher if we have to hold thier hands indefinately. People always want a father figure to take care of them rather than to take responsibility for thier own mind, and so we find that many want to hold up Jesus, Buddha and all the others, the gurus and the famous spiritual teachers.

Awakening then becomes all about the teacher and not about actually waking up!

To wake up in reality, we just need the desire to wake up - and for this desire to take hold, we have to be willing to question the thought made pictures we hold in our mind which block that reality from reaching our awareness- this includes the thought made pictures we hold of God, which, let's face it, are really childish, outmoded and unworthy of consideration to any human being with thier awareness anywhere near clear.

Bible thumpers - don't even bother responding - it just gets boring when all you have to back up your arguments is more and more OLD AND TIRED BLIND BELEIF.


.

[tannah]

[SIZE="2"]through years of getting tangled up in beleif I finally managed to get untangled - this is when I woke up and smelled the roses of reality (the life/spirit within us and all around us). I realized that beleif stands in the way of our perception of reality - just like any smokescreen of thought does.


Yes, it's liberating to practice Being instead of belief.


We don't need no "great" one to revere (no Jesus, no Buddha etc) - we may respect our teachers - yes - but they cannot be much of a teacher if we have to hold thier hands indefinately. People always want a father figure to take care of them rather than to take responsibility for thier own mind, and so we find that many want to hold up Jesus, Buddha and all the others, the gurus and the famous spiritual teachers.

Somebody brought up the question about what happens when we die. I think much hinges on our understanding of this. I don't mean that we shouild lead our lives doing nothing about the problems of this world, and leaving it up to Jesus, for example. Quite the contrary. If we were to understand this idea of death in other ways, we may be much more inspired to roll up our sleeves and tackle the world problems.

Because this idea of one life and then judgment day is the main card a christian wishes to play. A christian can scoff "there ya go, ya failed, coz you committed this and this and that sin". A christian relies on the "one life then judgment" structure, and then can bring in the need for Jesus to make up for it. God, for a christian, is like having to take a university degree where 99.9% means complete failure.

Then one day I met someone on an SVP forum (sympathetic vibratory physics, about Keely's musical dynaspheres). And he stated in a post that there was no death. He said it in a totally relaxed manner. That was nine years ago, and I slowly began to undertsand what led him to seeing it that way.

Instead of a God that gives you this one chance, and if you screw up (by not believing in his son) you go to hell, there is instead a process of conscious awakening to our spiritual nature, where death isn't. And this is achieved over many lifetimes.

I also read once that Constantine was responsible for suppressing the gnostic teachings about reincarnation, and finally cooking up a palatable book that could keep people as failures.:D There is no success in the bible as far as man is concerned. Talking positive about man is a dirty word, just ask Miracles the humanity hater.


To wake up in [B]reality, we just need the desire to wake up - and for this desire to take hold, we have to be willing to question the thought made pictures we hold in our mind which block that reality from reaching our awareness- this includes the thought made pictures we hold of God, which, let's face it, are really childish, outmoded and unworthy of consideration to any human being with thier awareness anywhere near clear.

That's very true, and I'm sure you make no apologies for succesfully outgrowing a limiting view for a much clearer view. Funny how the christians here are calling us hateful. One more example if I may; if this was a court case, and God was accused of being a baby slayer, where is the sense in the defense claiming we are accusing God because we are hateful people? Hateful of what then? Baby killing of course. Instead of being in complete denial about it, a Christian would do well to try to come to terms with the innacuracies about God in the past. Of course it has to shatter their illusion about a bit of paper and text being THE word of God.

[miracles]

Mmm ... Is it just me, or does a certain person remind everyone of a guy who would gladly start a war to furthur his religious ideas?:confused:

And I cannot grasp why Miracles enters a forum titled "Religion is a deception" and then puts people on ignore - What miracles - did you expect to find us all agree with your wacky black n' white translation of the bible?:eek:

By the way miracles - I used to be a "christian" as you call it - until I woke up that is and smelled the coffee. If Jesus really existed, then he must be very dismayed at those who claim to be following in his name - very dismayed indeed!:(

In response to tannah's request - heh Miracles - you beleive in fairytales!!!

You used to be a christian until satan came and blinded you again, but if you have received Christ, lucky for you, you still are a Christian.

Next dumb ass remark form you and your on ignore too bubba. I can see your madly in love with the fools who are already on the list, you belong together. I told you would hate my enlightened explaination huh?

[fallensoul]

Why ignore someone who speaks his mind?

[tjohn]

Awakening then becomes all about the teacher and not about actually waking up!

Bible thumpers - don't even bother responding - it just gets boring when all you have to back up your arguments is more and more OLD AND TIRED BLIND BELIEF.
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1223301#post1223301

:D

[tjohn]

Why ignore someone who speaks his mind?I think it's called being ignorant

[fallensoul]

I think it's called being ignorant


Or afraid, we are getting through to him, his reality is already shattering a bit. I bet insanity is creeping up upon him.

[infinite_consciousness]

Yeah I totally agree. There's so many religions. Everyone pointing the finger at eachother saying your religion is wrong, mine is right. Religion destroys spirituality.

[bealert]

But what of the good things we could have without religion that causes self-righteousness and hate towards people on this planet?

We don't need it - we were not born with a religion but it is told to us.
Religion was only invented by the elite to suppress the population and only fools believe the bible is true. for a start Mary ...what a joke ..does anyone really believe she fell pregnant because god chose her as he's special one..come on ..for a start why hadn't she slept with her husband and two her husband must have been pretty naive to believe she hadn't been unfaithful to him when he found out she was pregnant...and another thing how did she get Bed and breakfast that time of year every where is so busy around Christmas unless she booked early i suppose.

[tjohn]

Or afraid, we are getting through to him, his reality is already shattering a bit. I bet insanity is creeping up upon him.If he's doubting his religion, sanity is creeping upon him. Hope he makes it.

[adbasque]

Well the country I was living was once a country of free humans who believed in what they wanted to. And when the Christian crusades become many suffered and died in the name of your god and our country has become very Christian, people don't even remember their roots anymore. You destroyed a whole way of life by forcing your shitty religion on this country.

That good for starters?
I am assuming you're talking about Britain:


Yes if your comment was less hypocritical, because

I didn't hear you complain about the Vikings, about the Normands, and everybody else that has attacked these Isles, raped this land and now they are all the "indigenous".

The Viking did more killing, more ruthless attacks than anybody else in history, you didn't complain about them did you?

You people are double faced.

[adbasque]

Religion was only invented by the elite to suppress the population and only fools believe the bible is true. for a start Mary ...what a joke ..does anyone really believe she fell pregnant because god chose her as he's special one..come on ..for a start why hadn't she slept with her husband and two her husband must have been pretty naive to believe she hadn't been unfaithful to him when he found out she was pregnant...and another thing how did she get Bed and breakfast that time of year every where is so busy around Christmas unless she booked early i suppose.

She didn't sleep with her husband because God ordered her and if you knew for instance why? You will understand how.

First Jesus is not a Jew or Hebrew, take it from here and find out more why she was chosen, why she fell pregnant and why her husband believed her.

Another thing, what Christmas? She booked it online she also used her credit card, I believe it was Natwest CC too :)

[fallensoul]

You people are double faced.

Finland is the country I meant, and no one denies other sources of evil and destruction here. Just putting up religion on the list.

[marpat]

I am sure chairman Mao would agree with this thread.

[reality man]

You used to be a christian until satan came and blinded you again, but if you have received Christ, lucky for you, you still are a Christian.

Next dumb ass remark form you and your on ignore too bubba. I can see your madly in love with the fools who are already on the list, you belong together. I told you would hate my enlightened explaination huh?

Miracles - you are now on ignore - there are some levels of ******** I just cannot tolerate

[adbasque]

Finland is the country I meant, and no one denies other sources of evil and destruction here. Just putting up religion on the list.

No all I see so far is religion being attacked, well Finland and the whole of Scandinavia are the last to speak about crusades isn't it? :)

The Christian crusades were not the teachings of Christianity so you can't accuse religion, you can accuse the hypocrtites that used it to invade and enslave others.
And the same thing with the teachings of Islam, no attacks no crusades, the crusades happened after the Prophet died way after.

crusades, murders, crimes, evil are nowhere to be found within the religion or the scriptures.
They could spread the word of God with peaceful means, but men being men they'll use anything for their ends.

Now if people here want to make up stories they are free to do so, one other thing, all of you people know that religion has nothing not even remotely to do with what some evil men did in it's name, you do know that, but you prefer not to acknowledge it.

People hate religion for completely different reasons than the ones presented in their arguments ;), the crusades and evil deeds etc.. are just excuses.

Having said that I do not wish to engage in this anymore, it's boring, I think we should let the God,religious and religion haters to have fun between them and enjoy themselves.

[fallensoul]

No all I see so far is religion being attacked, well Finland and the whole of Scandinavia are the last to speak about crusades isn't it?

If you referring to Vikings, Finns never really were Vikings, they were shamans and pagans.

And Crusades are done in the bible also, killing the heathen, taking holy cities back etc, you wonder where they got the idea? Hint: OT

[marpat]

You used to be a christian until satan came and blinded you again, but if you have received Christ, lucky for you, you still are a Christian.

Next dumb ass remark form you and your on ignore too bubba. I can see your madly in love with the fools who are already on the list, you belong together. I told you would hate my enlightened explaination huh?

I thought the bible tells you never to call people fools.

You seem to exhibit too much spiritual arrogance.

Judge not!!

[adbasque]

If you referring to Vikings, Finns never really were Vikings, they were shamans and pagans.

And Crusades are done in the bible also, killing the heathen, taking holy cities back etc, you wonder where they got the idea? Hint: OT

Why do you think they got the idea from OT? where in the OT does it say attack, invade, kill, mutilate?

you guys can't seperate between what "man" does in the name of "religion" and what "religion" itself teaches.

I mean wars are fought in the name of one religion "Power + Money" that's the religion they are fighting for, enslavement of mankind.

Churches are empty, and the miseries are still there as a matter of a fact misery is increasing by the day.

People are losing their homes, their jobs, taxed to their teeth, wars are fought in the name of Oil, money, greed, etc etc..

So I know you guys can see this but you'd rather blame religion and religious people, who's a religious person? Is the average guy who works all the hours God sends to feed his family and to pay more taxes.

If religion was really teaching these things he'll be out doing evil things.

I am talking about religion in general, the three main religions.

because non of them are teaching or even implying what you guys are accusing them of.

Now if anyone is brave enough to provide some evidence, I'll be happy to look at it, but slandering is not the way to go and blaming every religious, believer out there for what others do is not right.

Would you like it if we accuse every non believer with the same things?
And we can prove that most war mongers and greedy people are usually not a God believers.
But unlike you we don't stick everyone in the same basket.
Take care

[fallensoul]

Why do you think they got the idea from OT? where in the OT does it say attack, invade, kill, mutilate?

you guys can't seperate between what "man" does in the name of "religion" and what "religion" itself teaches.

And you can't read, let me know if you need more confirmation..


Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)



Kill Witches

You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)



Kill Homosexuals
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)



Kill Fortunetellers

A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)



Death for Hitting Dad

Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)



Death for Cursing Parents

1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)

2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)



Death for Adultery

If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)



Death for Fornication

A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)



Death to Followers of Other Religions

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)



Kill Nonbelievers

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)



Kill False Prophets

If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)



Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)



Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night

But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)



Kill Followers of Other Religions.

1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)



2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)



Death for Blasphemy

One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD's name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother's name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD's will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, "Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD's name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD's name will surely die. (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)



Kill False Prophets

1) Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles, and the predicted signs or miracles take place. If the prophets then say, 'Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,' do not listen to them. The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul. Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone. Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him. The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt. Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT)



2) But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.' You may wonder, 'How will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?' If the prophet predicts something in the LORD's name and it does not happen, the LORD did not give the message. That prophet has spoken on his own and need not be feared. (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NLT)



Infidels and Gays Should Die

So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies. Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving. They are fully aware of God's death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. (Romans 1:24-32 NLT)



Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle

For the LORD had said to Moses, 'Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites. You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment. They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it. Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again. Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.' (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)



Kill People for Working on the Sabbath

The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)





2) God's Murders for Stupid Reasons:



Kill Brats

From there Elisha went up to Bethel. While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him. "Go up baldhead," they shouted, "go up baldhead!" The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces. (2 Kings 2:23-24 NAB)



God Kills the Curious

And he smote of the men of Beth-shemesh, because they had looked into the ark of Jehovah, he smote of the people seventy men, `and' fifty thousand men; and the people mourned, because Jehovah had smitten the people with a great slaughter. And the men of Beth-shemesh said, Who is able to stand before Jehovah, this holy God? and to whom shall he go up from us? (1Samuel 6:19-20 ASV)



Killed by a Lion

Meanwhile, the LORD instructed one of the group of prophets to say to another man, "Strike me!" But the man refused to strike the prophet. Then the prophet told him, "Because you have not obeyed the voice of the LORD, a lion will kill you as soon as you leave me." And sure enough, when he had gone, a lion attacked and killed him. (1 Kings 20:35-36 NLT)



Killing the Good Samaritan

The ark of God was placed on a new cart and taken away from the house of Abinadab on the hill. Uzzah and Ahio, sons of Abinadab guided the cart, with Ahio walking before it, while David and all the Israelites made merry before the Lord with all their strength, with singing and with citharas, harps, tambourines, sistrums, and cymbals.

When they came to the threshing floor of Nodan, Uzzah reached out his hand to the ark of God to steady it, for the oxen were making it tip. But the Lord was angry with Uzzah; God struck him on that spot, and he died there before God. (2 Samuel 6:3-7 NAB)





3) Murdering Children



Kill Sons of Sinners

Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants. (Isaiah 14:21 NAB)



God Will Kill Children

The glory of Israel will fly away like a bird, for your children will die at birth or perish in the womb or never even be conceived. Even if your children do survive to grow up, I will take them from you. It will be a terrible day when I turn away and leave you alone. I have watched Israel become as beautiful and pleasant as Tyre. But now Israel will bring out her children to be slaughtered." O LORD, what should I request for your people? I will ask for wombs that don't give birth and breasts that give no milk. The LORD says, "All their wickedness began at Gilgal; there I began to hate them. I will drive them from my land because of their evil actions. I will love them no more because all their leaders are rebels. The people of Israel are stricken. Their roots are dried up; they will bear no more fruit. And if they give birth, I will slaughter their beloved children." (Hosea 9:11-16 NLT)



Kill Men, Women, and Children

"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told." (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)



God Kills all the First Born of Egypt

And at midnight the LORD killed all the firstborn sons in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn son of the captive in the dungeon. Even the firstborn of their livestock were killed. Pharaoh and his officials and all the people of Egypt woke up during the night, and loud wailing was heard throughout the land of Egypt. There was not a single house where someone had not died. (Exodus 12:29-30 NLT)



Kill Old Men and Young Women

"You are my battle-ax and sword," says the LORD. "With you I will shatter nations and destroy many kingdoms. With you I will shatter armies, destroying the horse and rider, the chariot and charioteer. With you I will shatter men and women, old people and children, young men and maidens. With you I will shatter shepherds and flocks, farmers and oxen, captains and rulers. "As you watch, I will repay Babylon and the people of Babylonia for all the wrong they have done to my people in Jerusalem," says the LORD. "Look, O mighty mountain, destroyer of the earth! I am your enemy," says the LORD. "I will raise my fist against you, to roll you down from the heights. When I am finished, you will be nothing but a heap of rubble. You will be desolate forever. Even your stones will never again be used for building. You will be completely wiped out," says the LORD. (Jeremiah 51:20-26)

(Note that after God promises the Israelites a victory against Babylon, the Israelites actually get their butts kicked by them in the next chapter. So much for an all-knowing and all-powerful God.)



God Will Kill the Children of Sinners

If even then you remain hostile toward me and refuse to obey, I will inflict you with seven more disasters for your sins. I will release wild animals that will kill your children and destroy your cattle, so your numbers will dwindle and your roads will be deserted. (Leviticus 26:21-22 NLT)



More Rape and Baby Killing

Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. (Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT)





4) Miscellaneous Murders



More of Samson's Murders

(The Lord saves Sampson from standing trial for 30 murders and arson by allowing him to kill 1000 more men.) When he reached Lehi, and the Philistines came shouting to meet him, the spirit of the Lord came upon him: the ropes around his arms become as flax that is consumed by fire and the bonds melted away from his hands. Near him was the fresh jawbone of an ass; he reached out, grasped it, and with it killed a thousand men. (Judges 15:14-15 NAB)



Peter Kills Two People

There was also a man named Ananias who, with his wife, Sapphira, sold some property. He brought part of the money to the apostles, but he claimed it was the full amount. His wife had agreed to this deception. Then Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart? You lied to the Holy Spirit, and you kept some of the money for yourself. The property was yours to sell or not sell, as you wished. And after selling it, the money was yours to give away. How could you do a thing like this? You weren't lying to us but to God." As soon as Ananias heard these words, he fell to the floor and died. Everyone who heard about it was terrified. Then some young men wrapped him in a sheet and took him out and buried him. About three hours later his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. Peter asked her, "Was this the price you and your husband received for your land?" "Yes," she replied, "that was the price." And Peter said, "How could the two of you even think of doing a thing like this – conspiring together to test the Spirit of the Lord? Just outside that door are the young men who buried your husband, and they will carry you out, too." Instantly, she fell to the floor and died. When the young men came in and saw that she was dead, they carried her out and buried her beside her husband. Great fear gripped the entire church and all others who heard what had happened. (Acts 5:1-11 NLT)



Mass Murder

This is what the Lord of hosts has to say: 'I will punish what Amalek did to Israel when he barred his way as he was coming up from Egypt. Go, now, attack Amalek, and deal with him and all that he has under the ban. Do not spare him, but kill men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and asses.' (1 Samuel 15:2-3 NAB)



You Have to Kill

Cursed be he who does the Lords work remissly, cursed he who holds back his sword from blood. (Jeremiah 48:10 NAB)



The Danites Kill the Next Town

But the territory of the Danites was too small for them; so the Danites marched up and attacked Leshem, which they captured and put to the sword. Once they had taken possession of Lesham, they renamed the settlement after their ancestor Dan. (Joshua 19:47 NAB)



God Kills Some More

Then the LORD said to me, "Even if Moses and Samuel stood before me pleading for these people, I wouldn't help them. Away with them! Get them out of my sight! And if they say to you, 'But where can we go?' tell them, 'This is what the LORD says: Those who are destined for death, to death; those who are destined for war, to war; those who are destined for famine, to famine; those who are destined for captivity, to captivity.' "I will send four kinds of destroyers against them," says the LORD. "I will send the sword to kill, the dogs to drag away, the vultures to devour, and the wild animals to finish up what is left. Because of the wicked things Manasseh son of Hezekiah, king of Judah, did in Jerusalem, I will make my people an object of horror to all the kingdoms of the earth." (Jeremiah 15:1-4 NLT)



God Promises More Killing

I will make Mount Seir utterly desolate, killing off all who try to escape and any who return. I will fill your mountains with the dead. Your hills, your valleys, and your streams will be filled with people slaughtered by the sword. I will make you desolate forever. Your cities will never be rebuilt. Then you will know that I am the LORD. (Ezekiel 35:7-9 NLT)



The Angel of Death

My angel will go before you and bring you to the Amorites, Hittites, Perizzites, Canaanites, Hivites, and Jebusites; and I will wipe them out. (Exodus 23:23 NAB)



Destruction of Ai

Then the LORD said to Joshua, "Do not be afraid or discouraged. Take the entire army and attack Ai, for I have given to you the king of Ai, his people, his city, and his land. You will destroy them as you destroyed Jericho and its king. But this time you may keep the captured goods and the cattle for yourselves. Set an ambush behind the city." So Joshua and the army of Israel set out to attack Ai. Joshua chose thirty thousand fighting men and sent them out at night with these orders: "Hide in ambush close behind the city and be ready for action. When our main army attacks, the men of Ai will come out to fight as they did before, and we will run away from them. We will let them chase us until they have all left the city. For they will say, 'The Israelites are running away from us as they did before.' Then you will jump up from your ambush and take possession of the city, for the LORD your God will give it to you. Set the city on fire, as the LORD has commanded. You have your orders." So they left that night and lay in ambush between Bethel and the west side of Ai. But Joshua remained among the people in the camp that night.

Early the next morning Joshua roused his men and started toward Ai, accompanied by the leaders of Israel. They camped on the north side of Ai, with a valley between them and the city. That night Joshua sent five thousand men to lie in ambush between Bethel and Ai, on the west side of the city. So they stationed the main army north of the city and the ambush west of the city. Joshua himself spent that night in the valley. When the king of Ai saw the Israelites across the valley, he and all his army hurriedly went out early the next morning and attacked the Israelites at a place overlooking the Jordan Valley. But he didn't realize there was an ambush behind the city. Joshua and the Israelite army fled toward the wilderness as though they were badly beaten, and all the men in the city were called out to chase after them. In this way, they were lured away from the city. There was not a man left in Ai or Bethel who did not chase after the Israelites, and the city was left wide open.

Then the LORD said to Joshua, "Point your spear toward Ai, for I will give you the city." Joshua did as he was commanded. As soon as Joshua gave the signal, the men in ambush jumped up and poured into the city. They quickly captured it and set it on fire. When the men of Ai looked behind them, smoke from the city was filling the sky, and they had nowhere to go. For the Israelites who had fled in the direction of the wilderness now turned on their pursuers. When Joshua and the other Israelites saw that the ambush had succeeded and that smoke was rising from the city, they turned and attacked the men of Ai. Then the Israelites who were inside the city came out and started killing the enemy from the rear. So the men of Ai were caught in a trap, and all of them died. Not a single person survived or escaped. Only the king of Ai was taken alive and brought to Joshua.

When the Israelite army finished killing all the men outside the city, they went back and finished off everyone inside. So the entire population of Ai was wiped out that day – twelve thousand in all. For Joshua kept holding out his spear until everyone who had lived in Ai was completely destroyed. Only the cattle and the treasures of the city were not destroyed, for the Israelites kept these for themselves, as the LORD had commanded Joshua. So Ai became a permanent mound of ruins, desolate to this very day. Joshua hung the king of Ai on a tree and left him there until evening. At sunset the Israelites took down the body and threw it in front of the city gate. They piled a great heap of stones over him that can still be seen today. (Joshua 8:1-29 NLT)



Killing at Jericho

When the people heard the sound of the horns, they shouted as loud as they could. Suddenly, the walls of Jericho collapsed, and the Israelites charged straight into the city from every side and captured it. They completely destroyed everything in it – men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep, donkeys – everything. (Joshua 6:20-21 NLT)



God Kills an Extended Family

"You have done more evil than all who lived before you. You have made other gods and have made me furious with your gold calves. And since you have turned your back on me, I will bring disaster on your dynasty and kill all your sons, slave or free alike. I will burn up your royal dynasty as one burns up trash until it is all gone. I, the LORD, vow that the members of your family who die in the city will be eaten by dogs, and those who die in the field will be eaten by vultures.'" Then Ahijah said to Jeroboam's wife, "Go on home, and when you enter the city, the child will die. All Israel will mourn for him and bury him. He is the only member of your family who will have a proper burial, for this child is the only good thing that the LORD, the God of Israel, sees in the entire family of Jeroboam. And the LORD will raise up a king over Israel who will destroy the family of Jeroboam. This will happen today, even now! Then the LORD will shake Israel like a reed whipped about in a stream. He will uproot the people of Israel from this good land that he gave their ancestors and will scatter them beyond the Euphrates River, for they have angered the LORD by worshiping Asherah poles. He will abandon Israel because Jeroboam sinned and made all of Israel sin along with him." (1 Kings 14:9-16 NLT)



Mass Murder

The men of Israel withdrew through the territory of the Benjaminites, putting to the sword the inhabitants of the city, the livestock, and all they chanced upon. Moreover they destroyed by fire all the cities they came upon. (Judges 20:48 NAB)



The Angel of Death

That night the angel of the Lord went forth and struck down one hundred and eighty five thousand men in the Assyrian camp. Early the next morning, there they were, all the corpuses of the dead. (2 Kings 19:35 NAB)



Kill Your Neighbors

(Moses) stood at the entrance to the camp and shouted, "All of you who are on the LORD's side, come over here and join me." And all the Levites came. He told them, "This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: Strap on your swords! Go back and forth from one end of the camp to the other, killing even your brothers, friends, and neighbors." The Levites obeyed Moses, and about three thousand people died that day. Then Moses told the Levites, "Today you have been ordained for the service of the LORD, for you obeyed him even though it meant killing your own sons and brothers. Because of this, he will now give you a great blessing." (Exodus 32:26-29 NLT)



Kill the Family of Sinners

And Joshua said to Achan, My son, give, I pray thee, glory to the LORD God of Israel, and make confession to him; and tell me now what thou hast done, hide it not from me. And Achan answered Joshua, and said, Indeed I have sinned against the LORD God of Israel, and thus and thus have I done. When I saw among the spoils a goodly Babylonish garment, and two hundred shekels of silver, and a wedge of gold of fifty shekels weight, then I coveted them, and took them, and behold, they are hid in the earth in the midst of my tent, and the silver under it." [Note that the sin is not looting, but failing to give the loot to the treasury of the Lord.] "So Joshua sent messengers, and they ran to the tent, and behold, it was hid in his tent, and the silver under it. And they took them from the midst of the tent, and brought them to Joshua, and to all the children of Israel, and laid them out before the LORD. And Joshua, and all Israel with him, took Achan the son of Zerah, and the silver, and the garment, and the wedge of gold, and his sons, and his daughters, and his oxen, and his asses, and his sheep, and his tent, and all that he had: and they brought them to the valley of Achor. And Joshua said, why hast thou troubled us? the LORD shall trouble thee this day. And all Israel stoned him with stones, and burned them with fire, after they had stoned them with stones. And they raised over him a great heap of stones to this day. So the LORD turned from the fierceness of his anger: wherefore the name of that place was called the valley of Achor to this day. (Joshua 7:19-26 Webster's Bible)



Kill Followers of Other Religions

While the Israelites were camped at Acacia, some of the men defiled themselves by sleeping with the local Moabite women. These women invited them to attend sacrifices to their gods, and soon the Israelites were feasting with them and worshiping the gods of Moab. Before long Israel was joining in the worship of Baal of Peor, causing the LORD's anger to blaze against his people. The LORD issued the following command to Moses: "Seize all the ringleaders and execute them before the LORD in broad daylight, so his fierce anger will turn away from the people of Israel." So Moses ordered Israel's judges to execute everyone who had joined in worshiping Baal of Peor. Just then one of the Israelite men brought a Midianite woman into the camp, right before the eyes of Moses and all the people, as they were weeping at the entrance of the Tabernacle. When Phinehas son of Eleazar and grandson of Aaron the priest saw this, he jumped up and left the assembly. Then he took a spear and rushed after the man into his tent. Phinehas thrust the spear all the way through the man's body and into the woman's stomach. So the plague against the Israelites was stopped, but not before 24,000 people had died. (Numbers 25:1-9 NLT)



Murder

At the customary time for offering the evening sacrifice, Elijah the prophet walked up to the altar and prayed, "O LORD, God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, prove today that you are God in Israel and that I am your servant. Prove that I have done all this at your command. O LORD, answer me! Answer me so these people will know that you, O LORD, are God and that you have brought them back to yourself." Immediately the fire of the LORD flashed down from heaven and burned up the young bull, the wood, the stones, and the dust. It even licked up all the water in the ditch! And when the people saw it, they fell on their faces and cried out, "The LORD is God! The LORD is God!" Then Elijah commanded, "Seize all the prophets of Baal. Don't let a single one escape!" So the people seized them all, and Elijah took them down to the Kishon Valley and killed them there. (1 Kings 18:36-40 NLT)



Kill All of Babylon

"Go up, my warriors, against the land of Merathaim and against the people of Pekod. Yes, march against Babylon, the land of rebels, a land that I will judge! Pursue, kill, and completely destroy them, as I have commanded you," says the LORD. "Let the battle cry be heard in the land, a shout of great destruction". (Jeremiah 50:21-22 NLT)



Micah Kills a Whole Town

Then, with Micah's idols and his priest, the men of Dan came to the town of Laish, whose people were peaceful and secure. They attacked and killed all the people and burned the town to the ground. There was no one to rescue the residents of the town, for they lived a great distance from Sidon and had no allies nearby. This happened in the valley near Beth-rehob.Then the people of the tribe of Dan rebuilt the town and lived there. They renamed the town Dan after their ancestor, Israel's son, but it had originally been called Laish. (Judges 18:27-29 NLT) (Note that God approves of this slaughter in verse 6.)

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And you can't read, let me know if you need more confirmation..


Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)



Kill Witches

You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)



Kill Homosexuals
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)



Kill Fortunetellers

A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)



Death for Hitting Dad

Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)



Death for Cursing Parents

1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)

2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)



Death for Adultery

If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)



Death for Fornication

A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)



Death to Followers of Other Religions

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)



Kill Nonbelievers

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)



Kill False Prophets

If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)



Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)



Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night

But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)



Kill Followers of Other Religions.

1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)



2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)



Death for Blasphemy

One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD's name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother's name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD's will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, "Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD's name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD's name will surely die. (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)



Kill False Prophets

1) Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles, and the predicted signs or miracles take place. If the prophets then say, 'Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,' do not listen to them. The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul. Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone. Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him. The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt. Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT)



2) But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.' You may wonder, 'How will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?' If the prophet predicts something in the LORD's name and it does not happen, the LORD did not give the message. That prophet has spoken on his own and need not be feared. (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NLT)



Infidels and Gays Should Die

So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies. Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving. They are fully aware of God's death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. (Romans 1:24-32 NLT)



Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle

For the LORD had said to Moses, 'Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites. You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment. They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it. Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again. Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.' (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)



Kill People for Working on the Sabbath

The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)





2) God's Murders for Stupid Reasons:



Kill Brats

From there Elisha went up to Bethel. While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him. "Go up baldhead," they shouted, "go up baldhead!" The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces. (2 Kings 2:23-24 NAB)



God Kills the Curious

And he smote of the men of Beth-shemesh, because they had looked into the ark of Jehovah, he smote of the people seventy men, `and' fifty thousand men; and the people mourned, because Jehovah had smitten the people with a great slaughter. And the men of Beth-shemesh said, Who is able to stand before Jehovah, this holy God? and to whom shall he go up from us? (1Samuel 6:19-20 ASV)



Killed by a Lion

Meanwhile, the LORD instructed one of the group of prophets to say to another man, "Strike me!" But the man refused to strike the prophet. Then the prophet told him, "Because you have not obeyed the voice of the LORD, a lion will kill you as soon as you leave me." And sure enough, when he had gone, a lion attacked and killed him. (1 Kings 20:35-36 NLT)



Killing the Good Samaritan

The ark of God was placed on a new cart and taken away from the house of Abinadab on the hill. Uzzah and Ahio, sons of Abinadab guided the cart, with Ahio walking before it, while David and all the Israelites made merry before the Lord with all their strength, with singing and with citharas, harps, tambourines, sistrums, and cymbals.

When they came to the threshing floor of Nodan, Uzzah reached out his hand to the ark of God to steady it, for the oxen were making it tip. But the Lord was angry with Uzzah; God struck him on that spot, and he died there before God. (2 Samuel 6:3-7 NAB)





3) Murdering Children



Kill Sons of Sinners

Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants. (Isaiah 14:21 NAB)



God Will Kill Children

The glory of Israel will fly away like a bird, for your children will die at birth or perish in the womb or never even be conceived. Even if your children do survive to grow up, I will take them from you. It will be a terrible day when I turn away and leave you alone. I have watched Israel become as beautiful and pleasant as Tyre. But now Israel will bring out her children to be slaughtered." O LORD, what should I request for your people? I will ask for wombs that don't give birth and breasts that give no milk. The LORD says, "All their wickedness began at Gilgal; there I began to hate them. I will drive them from my land because of their evil actions. I will love them no more because all their leaders are rebels. The people of Israel are stricken. Their roots are dried up; they will bear no more fruit. And if they give birth, I will slaughter their beloved children." (Hosea 9:11-16 NLT)



Kill Men, Women, and Children

"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told." (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)



God Kills all the First Born of Egypt

And at midnight the LORD killed all the firstborn sons in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn son of the captive in the dungeon. Even the firstborn of their livestock were killed. Pharaoh and his officials and all the people of Egypt woke up during the night, and loud wailing was heard throughout the land of Egypt. There was not a single house where someone had not died. (Exodus 12:29-30 NLT)



Kill Old Men and Young Women

"You are my battle-ax and sword," says the LORD. "With you I will shatter nations and destroy many kingdoms. With you I will shatter armies, destroying the horse and rider, the chariot and charioteer. With you I will shatter men and women, old people and children, young men and maidens. With you I will shatter shepherds and flocks, farmers and oxen, captains and rulers. "As you watch, I will repay Babylon and the people of Babylonia for all the wrong they have done to my people in Jerusalem," says the LORD. "Look, O mighty mountain, destroyer of the earth! I am your enemy," says the LORD. "I will raise my fist against you, to roll you down from the heights. When I am finished, you will be nothing but a heap of rubble. You will be desolate forever. Even your stones will never again be used for building. You will be completely wiped out," says the LORD. (Jeremiah 51:20-26)

(Note that after God promises the Israelites a victory against Babylon, the Israelites actually get their butts kicked by them in the next chapter. So much for an all-knowing and all-powerful God.)



God Will Kill the Children of Sinners

If even then you remain hostile toward me and refuse to obey, I will inflict you with seven more disasters for your sins. I will release wild animals that will kill your children and destroy your cattle, so your numbers will dwindle and your roads will be deserted. (Leviticus 26:21-22 NLT)



More Rape and Baby Killing

Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. (Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT)





4) Miscellaneous Murders



More of Samson's Murders

(The Lord saves Sampson from standing trial for 30 murders and arson by allowing him to kill 1000 more men.) When he reached Lehi, and the Philistines came shouting to meet him, the spirit of the Lord came upon him: the ropes around his arms become as flax that is consumed by fire and the bonds melted away from his hands. Near him was the fresh jawbone of an ass; he reached out, grasped it, and with it killed a thousand men. (Judges 15:14-15 NAB)



Peter Kills Two People

There was also a man named Ananias who, with his wife, Sapphira, sold some property. He brought part of the money to the apostles, but he claimed it was the full amount. His wife had agreed to this deception. Then Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart? You lied to the Holy Spirit, and you kept some of the money for yourself. The property was yours to sell or not sell, as you wished. And after selling it, the money was yours to give away. How could you do a thing like this? You weren't lying to us but to God." As soon as Ananias heard these words, he fell to the floor and died. Everyone who heard about it was terrified. Then some young men wrapped him in a sheet and took him out and buried him. About three hours later his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. Peter asked her, "Was this the price you and your husband received for your land?" "Yes," she replied, "that was the price." And Peter said, "How could the two of you even think of doing a thing like this – conspiring together to test the Spirit of the Lord? Just outside that door are the young men who buried your husband, and they will carry you out, too." Instantly, she fell to the floor and died. When the young men came in and saw that she was dead, they carried her out and buried her beside her husband. Great fear gripped the entire church and all others who heard what had happened. (Acts 5:1-11 NLT)



Mass Murder

This is what the Lord of hosts has to say: 'I will punish what Amalek did to Israel when he barred his way as he was coming up from Egypt. Go, now, attack Amalek, and deal with him and all that he has under the ban. Do not spare him, but kill men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and asses.' (1 Samuel 15:2-3 NAB)



You Have to Kill

Cursed be he who does the Lords work remissly, cursed he who holds back his sword from blood. (Jeremiah 48:10 NAB)



The Danites Kill the Next Town

But the territory of the Danites was too small for them; so the Danites marched up and attacked Leshem, which they captured and put to the sword. Once they had taken possession of Lesham, they renamed the settlement after their ancestor Dan. (Joshua 19:47 NAB)



God Kills Some More

Then the LORD said to me, "Even if Moses and Samuel stood before me pleading for these people, I wouldn't help them. Away with them! Get them out of my sight! And if they say to you, 'But where can we go?' tell them, 'This is what the LORD says: Those who are destined for death, to death; those who are destined for war, to war; those who are destined for famine, to famine; those who are destined for captivity, to captivity.' "I will send four kinds of destroyers against them," says the LORD. "I will send the sword to kill, the dogs to drag away, the vultures to devour, and the wild animals to finish up what is left. Because of the wicked things Manasseh son of Hezekiah, king of Judah, did in Jerusalem, I will make my people an object of horror to all the kingdoms of the earth." (Jeremiah 15:1-4 NLT)



God Promises More Killing

I will make Mount Seir utterly desolate, killing off all who try to escape and any who return. I will fill your mountains with the dead. Your hills, your valleys, and your streams will be filled with people slaughtered by the sword. I will make you desolate forever. Your cities will never be rebuilt. Then you will know that I am the LORD. (Ezekiel 35:7-9 NLT)



The Angel of Death

My angel will go before you and bring you to the Amorites, Hittites, Perizzites, Canaanites, Hivites, and Jebusites; and I will wipe them out. (Exodus 23:23 NAB)



Destruction of Ai

Then the LORD said to Joshua, "Do not be afraid or discouraged. Take the entire army and attack Ai, for I have given to you the king of Ai, his people, his city, and his land. You will destroy them as you destroyed Jericho and its king. But this time you may keep the captured goods and the cattle for yourselves. Set an ambush behind the city." So Joshua and the army of Israel set out to attack Ai. Joshua chose thirty thousand fighting men and sent them out at night with these orders: "Hide in ambush close behind the city and be ready for action. When our main army attacks, the men of Ai will come out to fight as they did before, and we will run away from them. We will let them chase us until they have all left the city. For they will say, 'The Israelites are running away from us as they did before.' Then you will jump up from your ambush and take possession of the city, for the LORD your God will give it to you. Set the city on fire, as the LORD has commanded. You have your orders." So they left that night and lay in ambush between Bethel and the west side of Ai. But Joshua remained among the people in the camp that night.

Early the next morning Joshua roused his men and started toward Ai, accompanied by the leaders of Israel. They camped on the north side of Ai, with a valley between them and the city. That night Joshua sent five thousand men to lie in ambush between Bethel and Ai, on the west side of the city. So they stationed the main army north of the city and the ambush west of the city. Joshua himself spent that night in the valley. When the king of Ai saw the Israelites across the valley, he and all his army hurriedly went out early the next morning and attacked the Israelites at a place overlooking the Jordan Valley. But he didn't realize there was an ambush behind the city. Joshua and the Israelite army fled toward the wilderness as though they were badly beaten, and all the men in the city were called out to chase after them. In this way, they were lured away from the city. There was not a man left in Ai or Bethel who did not chase after the Israelites, and the city was left wide open.

Then the LORD said to Joshua, "Point your spear toward Ai, for I will give you the city." Joshua did as he was commanded. As soon as Joshua gave the signal, the men in ambush jumped up and poured into the city. They quickly captured it and set it on fire. When the men of Ai looked behind them, smoke from the city was filling the sky, and they had nowhere to go. For the Israelites who had fled in the direction of the wilderness now turned on their pursuers. When Joshua and the other Israelites saw that the ambush had succeeded and that smoke was rising from the city, they turned and attacked the men of Ai. Then the Israelites who were inside the city came out and started killing the enemy from the rear. So the men of Ai were caught in a trap, and all of them died. Not a single person survived or escaped. Only the king of Ai was taken alive and brought to Joshua.

When the Israelite army finished killing all the men outside the city, they went back and finished off everyone inside. So the entire population of Ai was wiped out that day – twelve thousand in all. For Joshua kept holding out his spear until everyone who had lived in Ai was completely destroyed. Only the cattle and the treasures of the city were not destroyed, for the Israelites kept these for themselves, as the LORD had commanded Joshua. So Ai became a permanent mound of ruins, desolate to this very day. Joshua hung the king of Ai on a tree and left him there until evening. At sunset the Israelites took down the body and threw it in front of the city gate. They piled a great heap of stones over him that can still be seen today. (Joshua 8:1-29 NLT)



Killing at Jericho

When the people heard the sound of the horns, they shouted as loud as they could. Suddenly, the walls of Jericho collapsed, and the Israelites charged straight into the city from every side and captured it. They completely destroyed everything in it – men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep, donkeys – everything. (Joshua 6:20-21 NLT)



God Kills an Extended Family

"You have done more evil than all who lived before you. You have made other gods and have made me furious with your gold calves. And since you have turned your back on me, I will bring disaster on your dynasty and kill all your sons, slave or free alike. I will burn up your royal dynasty as one burns up trash until it is all gone. I, the LORD, vow that the members of your family who die in the city will be eaten by dogs, and those who die in the field will be eaten by vultures.'" Then Ahijah said to Jeroboam's wife, "Go on home, and when you enter the city, the child will die. All Israel will mourn for him and bury him. He is the only member of your family who will have a proper burial, for this child is the only good thing that the LORD, the God of Israel, sees in the entire family of Jeroboam. And the LORD will raise up a king over Israel who will destroy the family of Jeroboam. This will happen today, even now! Then the LORD will shake Israel like a reed whipped about in a stream. He will uproot the people of Israel from this good land that he gave their ancestors and will scatter them beyond the Euphrates River, for they have angered the LORD by worshiping Asherah poles. He will abandon Israel because Jeroboam sinned and made all of Israel sin along with him." (1 Kings 14:9-16 NLT)



Mass Murder

The men of Israel withdrew through the territory of the Benjaminites, putting to the sword the inhabitants of the city, the livestock, and all they chanced upon. Moreover they destroyed by fire all the cities they came upon. (Judges 20:48 NAB)



The Angel of Death

That night the angel of the Lord went forth and struck down one hundred and eighty five thousand men in the Assyrian camp. Early the next morning, there they were, all the corpuses of the dead. (2 Kings 19:35 NAB)



Kill Your Neighbors

(Moses) stood at the entrance to the camp and shouted, "All of you who are on the LORD's side, come over here and join me." And all the Levites came. He told them, "This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: Strap on your swords! Go back and forth from one end of the camp to the other, killing even your brothers, friends, and neighbors." The Levites obeyed Moses, and about three thousand people died that day. Then Moses told the Levites, "Today you have been ordained for the service of the LORD, for you obeyed him even though it meant killing your own sons and brothers. Because of this, he will now give you a great blessing." (Exodus 32:26-29 NLT)



Kill the Family of Sinners

And Joshua said to Achan, My son, give, I pray thee, glory to the LORD God of Israel, and make confession to him; and tell me now what thou hast done, hide it not from me. And Achan answered Joshua, and said, Indeed I have sinned against the LORD God of Israel, and thus and thus have I done. When I saw among the spoils a goodly Babylonish garment, and two hundred shekels of silver, and a wedge of gold of fifty shekels weight, then I coveted them, and took them, and behold, they are hid in the earth in the midst of my tent, and the silver under it." [Note that the sin is not looting, but failing to give the loot to the treasury of the Lord.] "So Joshua sent messengers, and they ran to the tent, and behold, it was hid in his tent, and the silver under it. And they took them from the midst of the tent, and brought them to Joshua, and to all the children of Israel, and laid them out before the LORD. And Joshua, and all Israel with him, took Achan the son of Zerah, and the silver, and the garment, and the wedge of gold, and his sons, and his daughters, and his oxen, and his asses, and his sheep, and his tent, and all that he had: and they brought them to the valley of Achor. And Joshua said, why hast thou troubled us? the LORD shall trouble thee this day. And all Israel stoned him with stones, and burned them with fire, after they had stoned them with stones. And they raised over him a great heap of stones to this day. So the LORD turned from the fierceness of his anger: wherefore the name of that place was called the valley of Achor to this day. (Joshua 7:19-26 Webster's Bible)



Kill Followers of Other Religions

While the Israelites were camped at Acacia, some of the men defiled themselves by sleeping with the local Moabite women. These women invited them to attend sacrifices to their gods, and soon the Israelites were feasting with them and worshiping the gods of Moab. Before long Israel was joining in the worship of Baal of Peor, causing the LORD's anger to blaze against his people. The LORD issued the following command to Moses: "Seize all the ringleaders and execute them before the LORD in broad daylight, so his fierce anger will turn away from the people of Israel." So Moses ordered Israel's judges to execute everyone who had joined in worshiping Baal of Peor. Just then one of the Israelite men brought a Midianite woman into the camp, right before the eyes of Moses and all the people, as they were weeping at the entrance of the Tabernacle. When Phinehas son of Eleazar and grandson of Aaron the priest saw this, he jumped up and left the assembly. Then he took a spear and rushed after the man into his tent. Phinehas thrust the spear all the way through the man's body and into the woman's stomach. So the plague against the Israelites was stopped, but not before 24,000 people had died. (Numbers 25:1-9 NLT)



Murder

At the customary time for offering the evening sacrifice, Elijah the prophet walked up to the altar and prayed, "O LORD, God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, prove today that you are God in Israel and that I am your servant. Prove that I have done all this at your command. O LORD, answer me! Answer me so these people will know that you, O LORD, are God and that you have brought them back to yourself." Immediately the fire of the LORD flashed down from heaven and burned up the young bull, the wood, the stones, and the dust. It even licked up all the water in the ditch! And when the people saw it, they fell on their faces and cried out, "The LORD is God! The LORD is God!" Then Elijah commanded, "Seize all the prophets of Baal. Don't let a single one escape!" So the people seized them all, and Elijah took them down to the Kishon Valley and killed them there. (1 Kings 18:36-40 NLT)



Kill All of Babylon

"Go up, my warriors, against the land of Merathaim and against the people of Pekod. Yes, march against Babylon, the land of rebels, a land that I will judge! Pursue, kill, and completely destroy them, as I have commanded you," says the LORD. "Let the battle cry be heard in the land, a shout of great destruction". (Jeremiah 50:21-22 NLT)



Micah Kills a Whole Town

Then, with Micah's idols and his priest, the men of Dan came to the town of Laish, whose people were peaceful and secure. They attacked and killed all the people and burned the town to the ground. There was no one to rescue the residents of the town, for they lived a great distance from Sidon and had no allies nearby. This happened in the valley near Beth-rehob.Then the people of the tribe of Dan rebuilt the town and lived there. They renamed the town Dan after their ancestor, Israel's son, but it had originally been called Laish. (Judges 18:27-29 NLT) (Note that God approves of this slaughter in verse 6.)

And the moral of the story is, dont mess with God. Why? becuase he is God and he will kill you, but he will also forgive you if you repent. No point having a hissy fit about it.

[fallensoul]

And the moral of the story is, dont mess with God. Why? becuase he is God and he will kill you, but he will also forgive you if you repent. No point having a hissy fit about it.

That is how it seems, some Christians seem very confused about their god tho.. maybe they didn't read the bible :D

[brainfreeze]

I didn't think it was a hissy fit. More someone pointing out the horror of religion to those not blinded by faith to see.

[tannah]

And the moral of the story is, dont mess with God. Why? becuase he is God and he will kill you, but he will also forgive you if you repent. No point having a hissy fit about it.

No, he that did those deeds is not God. People that believe in this kind of God have exposed themselves as blind to the true nature of God. Or else there would exist humans of far greater love and compassion.

[reality man]

And the moral of the story is, dont mess with God. Why? becuase he is God and he will kill you, but he will also forgive you if you repent. No point having a hissy fit about it.


This makes YOUR version of God a complete CUNT. Why doesn't this "god" and all of his so called judgemental "sons" and angels mind thier own god damn business, instead of sticking thier noses into our lives all of the time?


Signed - A blasphemous Heathen - and god damn proud of it!

[seanx]

Miracles reponse to fallensoul excellent post

And the moral of the story is, dont mess with God. Why? becuase he is God and he will kill you, but he will also forgive you if you repent. No point having a hissy fit about it.

Now if that doesn't prove that this religion of yours is a creation
of the Elite, nothing will.

God will kill all these people for having different views.

Even the poor Muslims for having a different 'God'?

Who does this 'God ' remind you of?

Who acts like this 'God'?

The very leaders of the Elite who run this world through
their 'religions', banks , schools and media.

THEIR 'God'.

[seanx]

Reality man wrote:
This makes YOUR version of God a complete CUNT. Why doesn't this wanker "god" mind his own god damn business?

Exactly!

[reality man]

Miracles reponse to fallensoul excellent post



Now if that doesn't prove that this religion of yours is a creation
of the Elite, nothing will.

God will kill all these people for having different views.

Even the poor Muslims for having a different 'God'?

Who does this 'God ' remind you of?

Who acts like this 'God'?

The very leaders of the Elite who run this world through
their 'religions', banks , schools and media.

because they have created this 'gOD' to terrorize and control
people through fear.



Exactly Sean,

I don't know but it seems that miracles big bad devil is a nicer guy than his so called "god". His "god" seems like areal evil son of a bitch. I'd rather roast in the "devils" hell than spend a minute with that wanker "god" he speaks about!

[adbasque]

That is how it seems, some Christians seem very confused about their god tho.. maybe they didn't read the bible :D

No I don't think they are confused, but to give answers to each point, it will take time and I don't believe that is accurate, a lot of things have been taken out of context changed the stories and even the wordings.


Now, if you believe he is a god, and he does have the power to send his angels to "mass murder" who are you to protest against his decisions?

Can you fight him if you disagree with him?
On what grounds do you disagree with him? He created those people he can take them anytime he wants, he doesn't owe you anything, he can do whatever he wants, and there's nothing you or I can do about it.

But coming back to these points you raised above, I don't know where you got them from, but it is not at all "kill" because every point is addressed seperately.

All you used here is "kill" "Kill", there are cases where they are put in prison, cases where they were exiled from the land etc.. not everything is kill.

As Miracle said, don't mess with your maker, you will lose everytime, don't take his patience for granted, as much as he is patient he don't push your luck too far with him, he is GOD do you get it?

Now there are two things, either you believe in him or you don't, if you don't that's your decision, that doesn't mean you know better, not accepting something doesn't necessarily make it untrue.

God gives his command and rules he has good reasons to why, he knows better than you or any human being, he knows what's best for individuals and for society and he knows everything.
You can laugh at this be my guest, but as I said before, not because you don't believe it, it means it's not true.

They laughed at people when they first said the earth is a sphere (round) but who had the last laugh?

Not because something seems inconceivable to you, you automatically assume that others are blinded or your favourite term brainwashed.

I read things that people are believing in all sorts of nonsense without any proof whatsoever, a bunch of liars are loading crap on the web, stupid books are being published telling all sorts of stories, no evidence, no proof and yet people on this forum are swallowing all sorts of garbage that's been dished out for them.

Only recently some people realised that idiots like Sitchin and many others are nothing but frauds and liars.

Let me have a laugh, a self appointed scholar lol come on guys.
He has been refuted page for page by others and he was exposed as a liar and a cheat, they weren't mistakes or inaccuracies, but a deliberate misleading of some lost souls, they bought his books, only to discover he was lying all along and made his fortunes out of their ignorance.

Give me a break and those same people come here and argue that religion is a man made, and God doesn't exist and lucifer is a good guy, please give me a break!

Wait for Lucifer to bring you light then, keep an eye on him.

[adbasque]

Miracles reponse to fallensoul excellent post



Now if that doesn't prove that this religion of yours is a creation
of the Elite, nothing will.

God will kill all these people for having different views.

Even the poor Muslims for having a different 'God'?

Who does this 'God ' remind you of?

Who acts like this 'God'?

The very leaders of the Elite who run this world through
their 'religions', banks , schools and media.

THEIR 'God'.

Yes Seanx, nobody is denying that religion has been used for personal gains and used to mislead but it's not religion itself man :)

It's the elite, they have infiltrated religion since it appeared, they have discredited every Prophet, because these Elite didn't just show up, they always existed, since Noah even before him.

But religion came down to fight these people, and in real religion there's no such thing of killing others for having a different religion.

That's where man changed the true religion into hate and division, but the real religion doesn't teach that.

To be honest in order to explain in details, we have to be face to face not by typing, it is a very long process.

My poor fingers are very soar lol :D

Take care mate

[tannah]

Now, if you believe he is a god, and he does have the power to send his angels to "mass murder" who are you to protest against his decisions?

Can you fight him if you disagree with him?
On what grounds do you disagree with him? He created those people he can take them anytime he wants, he doesn't owe you anything, he can do whatever he wants, and there's nothing you or I can do about it.

But coming back to these points you raised above, I don't know where you got them from, but it is not at all "kill" because every point is addressed seperately.

All you used here is "kill" "Kill", there are cases where they are put in prison, cases where they were exiled from the land etc.. not everything is kill.

As Miracle said, don't mess with your maker, you will lose everytime, don't take his patience for granted, as much as he is patient he don't push your luck too far with him, he is GOD do you get it?



I guess I shouldda just gone along with walking into the Kingdom as a blonde haired blue eyed boy. That's what you are suggesting here Ad. You're saying don't mess with your maker, he can wipe you out. Just plead mercy and he'll let you reside with him in his kingdom. Be a good puppy, don't rock the boat, ya don't know what you're messin with. I think I do, and I think my God is more worthy of love and respect.

I have a strong sense of Creator-Infinite Consciousness pervading everything in this universe. I have a strong sense of where man's illusion has used God for its advantage. And I have a strong sense that we have entered a time when blind and unreasonable versions of God can be put under the spotlight on internet forums, especially ones like this.

So no, your God and the God of Miracles are not the real deal.

The reign of the God of fear will come to an end, but it will take effort. If you want to defend your version of God, be ready for more and more people giving you a superior version to contemplate.:)

[tannah]

Yes Seanx, nobody is denying that religion has been used for personal gains and used to mislead but it's not religion itself man :)

It's the elite, they have infiltrated religion since it appeared, they have discredited every Prophet, because these Elite didn't just show up, they always existed, since Noah even before him.

But religion came down to fight these people, and in real religion there's no such thing of killing others for having a different religion.

That's where man changed the true religion into hate and division, but the real religion doesn't teach that.

To be honest in order to explain in details, we have to be face to face not by typing, it is a very long process.

My poor fingers are very soar lol :D

Take care mate

Real religion is simple. Break the illusion about the bible and quran being the word of God, for starters. This will allow people to consider coming together far easier. Whilst they think their book is God's Word they will be filled with a sense of false duty, and will war if they have to. These books are not real religion if they portray evil actions from an all loving creator. We want to unite and come together, so it's time for the bonds of false icons to be broken.

[miracles]

Real religion is simple. Break the illusion about the bible and quran being the word of God, for starters. This will allow people to consider coming together far easier. Whilst they think their book is God's Word they will be filled with a sense of false duty, and will war if they have to. These books are not real religion if they portray evil actions from an all loving creator. We want to unite and come together, so it's time for the bonds of false icons to be broken.

Please dont compare the Quran to the bible, they are two totally different books and two totally different religions. I do not advocate the Quran as the word of God. The fact that everyone in eher treats them as the same thing is ignorant beyond compare. I dont attack muslims for their beliefs though, they conduct themselves with more dognity than most in here.

[tannah]

Please dont compare the Quran to the bible, they are two totally different books and two totally different religions. I do not advocate the Quran as the word of God.


I wouldn't put any money on that either. But I wasn't thinking of you when I referred to the quran as another book that is claimed to be the Word of God, with Muhammed the holy prophet.



The fact that everyone in eher treats them as the same thing is ignorant beyond compare.


No it isn't ignorant at all. Ask any muslim which book is the true word of God.


I dont attack muslims for their beliefs though, they conduct themselves with more dognity than most in here.


I'd like to see you walk through the streets of Bagdad proclaiming the good news Miracles. Or maybe a muslim can come and respectfully insist that the Christians are wrong about the bible, and that the true word of God is the quran. One thing's for certian, I won't start a war over our disagreement.

[seanx]

Miracles wrote:
Please dont compare the Quran to the bible, they are two totally different books and two totally different religions. I do not advocate the Quran as the word of God. The fact that everyone in eher treats them as the same thing is ignorant beyond compare. I dont attack muslims for their beliefs though, they conduct themselves with more dognity than most in here.
__________________

No, but you think that God should KILL them as you made very clear in another post.

That's aint't very loving!

[miracles]

Miracles wrote:


No, but you think that God should KILL them as you made very clear in another post.

That's aint't very loving!

God died on a cross for the sins of everyman, what more do you want him to do, how much more loving can you get than dieing in the place of someone else. You guys have no understanding of my God and His word. NONE. If you did you wouldnt be waxing lyrical so much bunkum in every single post about Him.

[miracles]

One thing's for certian, I won't start a war over our disagreement.


Neither will I, but given a chance you may put me death under the false pretense that I would.

[tannah]

Neither will I, but given a chance you may put me death under the false pretense that I would.

Eh? Given a chance? Pretend that you were going to start a war just so I could kill you?

WAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHhhhAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do you have any conscious brian cells not intoxicated with illusion?

[adbasque]

I guess I shouldda just gone along with walking into the Kingdom as a blonde haired blue eyed boy. That's what you are suggesting here Ad.
No Tannah, it is not what I am suggesting mate.


You're saying don't mess with your maker, he can wipe you out. Just plead mercy and he'll let you reside with him in his kingdom.
Tell me why would you go against him?
He is your maker isn't he?
How can you accept a human version of events, instead of your GOD
For instance a man has reasons to lie God doesn't need to lie, are you seriously telling me that we should only believe in God that doesn't punish that doesn't give a shit on what's going on down here, all of these murderers will go free, all of these people who are doing everything to suppress his will will simply be received with open arms, come on Seanx!!

Who said he is not God of love?
But some people will be punished for what they did to others not to him.
people who were powerful and felt invincible on this earth when they stand before him, they will be judged and punished accordingly if God sees they don't deserve any punishments then he won't punish them, what is so morbid about this?

You want to believe in a world and after life without any kind of justice none whatsoever??
Who's going to punish the Rothschilds, Hitler, the Pharahos and many many many more? You? This infinite consciousness that's not even been defined?

David Icke and others took the essence of the idea and interpreted as he sees it, that doesn't mean he is right, DI is just a bloke like you and me, he is not some kind of a God or genius, he has a lot of things wrong.
"Infinite" yes we are all infinite, God is certainly infinite, but where are we going to be infinite more to the point??



Be a good puppy, don't rock the boat, ya don't know what you're messin with. I think I do, and I think my God is more worthy of love and respect.

Seanx you god and my god there is only one God, we need to understand what we're talking about.
Ok answer me this please, why are we here on earth?
Why are we not where we should be, with this infinite consciousness?
Why do we have to live here first before joining this infinite consciousness?
Why are we alive and with a such a short life?

Truth is not always as you want it to be, truth sometimes can be harsh even difficult to accept, nevertheless it's still the truth and reality.


I have a strong sense of Creator-Infinite Consciousness pervading ever


Why don't you tell me a little bit about this Infinite consciousness, these are just two words, which can mean nothing and anything any interpretation, can you point it to one solid fact and truth backed with evidence?

Give me one good reason why should I believe what you're saying instead of what I already know?
How do I know what you're talking about is anywhere near truth or reality?

Can you?
I'll be waiting for your clarification.
Thanks

[adbasque]

Please dont compare the Quran to the bible, they are two totally different books and two totally different religions. I do not advocate the Quran as the word of God. The fact that everyone in eher treats them as the same thing is ignorant beyond compare. I dont attack muslims for their beliefs though, they conduct themselves with more dognity than most in here.

Can I ask you how much you know about the Qu'ran please?
No offence, but I have seen your comments on many occasions knocking Islam and the Qu'ran, I am just curious to see how much do you actually know about it?

I know the Bible and the Qu'ran, I can speak and say two things, they are the same message, and if you really want to know?

The Bible has been tampered with so many times, I didn't want to get into this debate, I respect your belief, I think you could at least show the commun courtesy here.

Remember one thing, the same way you believe in the Bible I have the same strong reasons to believe in the Qu'ran, furthermore, I wasn't born into a Muslim family or grew up as a Muslim, so I had to look and search and compare, have you done similar thing?

I mean you can't accuse other people for being ignorant of the Bible or Christianity while you're doing the same thing about other Books and other religions, it won't be fair would it?


I don't want to engage in another debate Bible vs Qu'ran, too tired for that.
I hope you get what I mean

Thanks :)

[adbasque]

Real religion is simple. Break the illusion about the bible and quran being the word of God, for starters. This will allow people to consider coming together far easier. Whilst they think their book is God's Word they will be filled with a sense of false duty, and will war if they have to. These books are not real religion if they portray evil actions from an all loving creator. We want to unite and come together, so it's time for the bonds of false icons to be broken.

I am sorry what you see as an illusion I don't see it as an illusion at all, on the contrary, it's something real, concrete, believing in god just like that, what is the purpose in just being and believing?

You have to understand your reason for being here (1)
You have to understand why and how you should believe and worship God (2)

He wants to be worshipped not just believed in him, he didn't create us and everything around us just because he got bored, he made us for a purpose, and some people are so arrogant, just like the Pharaohs were, they knew he existed but despite the efforts of the Prophets, they kept enslaving human beings, thinking of themselves of being the Gods, they were warned, approached nicely, many times over, they simply were too arrogant to admit it.
And guess what they lost, they did lose every single one of them, where are they now? They too believed in the after life, they even buried themselves with their Gold and money to take to the next life.

If they were such Gods why do they need the Gold for? How come they didn't know where they were going? How can they claim to be Gods and at the same time, they haven't got a clue where they were heading?

No Tannah, you need to ask a lot of questions, and until you find the right answers, what you're suggesting right here, is not a reality, we are not here by pure chance, we are not here to "experience" if that was the case believe me we would be here for a very very longtime not just a miserable 70+ years on average.

[miracles]

Can I ask you how much you know about the Qu'ran please?
No offence, but I have seen your comments on many occasions knocking Islam and the Qu'ran, I am just curious to see how much do you actually know about it?

I know the Bible and the Qu'ran, I can speak and say two things, they are the same message, and if you really want to know?

The Bible has been tampered with so many times, I didn't want to get into this debate, I respect your belief, I think you could at least show the commun courtesy here.

Remember one thing, the same way you believe in the Bible I have the same strong reasons to believe in the Qu'ran, furthermore, I wasn't born into a Muslim family or grew up as a Muslim, so I had to look and search and compare, have you done similar thing?

I mean you can't accuse other people for being ignorant of the Bible or Christianity while you're doing the same thing about other Books and other religions, it won't be fair would it?


I don't want to engage in another debate Bible vs Qu'ran, too tired for that.
I hope you get what I mean

Thanks :)

I wasn't brought up a Christian either. Im sorry that you see me as discourteous, however, the bible is not the quaran, they are two enitirely different religions. I am of the opinion that the quran is a plagurism of the bible (hense the similarities) it's yet another tampered with version of the bible, as you know the quran has not been tampered with, because in my opinion, it is not the word of God. Therefor the enemy of God has no need to tamper with it.

Tell me then who do you say Jesus is? And then we will see where the similarities begin and end.

In my opinion a bible verses Quran debate would be more fruitful for you than arguing your case for religion with the likes of TJohn and others. You need to defend your own faith you do not need to campaign vigourously for people to have the right to their beliefs IE all religion in general, because that is already a given. And quite frankly, you defending the right for people to have their religion in general does not do the the cause for a faith in the bible much good when I am up against people who misquote biblical scripture. As a muslim you do not have to contend with idiots who ramble on adinfintum about "muhamed consciouness" while misquoting the koran out of context, at least you only have to contend with that sort of thing with other muslim brothers and not the infidel persay.

Meanwhile people who hate christianity and the bible, christians and the Christian God think they can quote the bible (the book written by God) to win arguements with Christians. I'd like to see you figure that one out if they did it with the Quran.

Also if you read both books, why did you choose the Quran religion over the biblical religion?

[seanx]

miracles wrote:
God died on a cross for the sins of everyman, what more do you want him to do, how much more loving can you get than dieing in the place of someone else. You guys have no understanding of my God and His word. NONE. If you did you wouldnt be waxing lyrical so much bunkum in every single post about Him.

What has that got to do with you wanting God to kill Muslims?

So Jesus died on the cross so now God can kill muslims, 'witches',
people who have sex, in fact, anybody you seem you don't like?

[miracles]

miracles wrote:


What has that got to do with you wanting God to kill Muslims?

So Jesus died on the cross so now God can kill muslims, 'witches',
people who have sex, in fact, anybody you seem you don't like?

I dont have a say in what God does. But evidently He did execute his judgment, you have a problem with that. I dont. But I do understand why He did it and why he had to do it. It was not murder either. If I had to I would kill someone to protect my family if it came down to it. (but I pray ardently that I may never be in such a position) God killed people to save humanity in general.

[fallensoul]

Wow I guess the thread is going at it again.

They laughed at people when they first said the earth is a sphere (round) but who had the last laugh?

Not because something seems inconceivable to you, you automatically assume that others are blinded or your favourite term brainwashed.

The irony in this is the way the Catholic church for example has dealed with these truths.

Although he was cleared of any offence at that time, the Catholic Church nevertheless condemned heliocentrism as "false and contrary to Scripture" in February 1616,[8] and Galileo was warned to abandon his support for it—which he promised to do. When he later defended his views in his most famous work, Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief World Systems, published in 1632, he was tried by the Inquisition, found "vehemently suspect of heresy," forced to recant, and spent the rest of his life under house arrest.

Who is having the last laugh again?

There's also many similiar cases where the bible doesn't agree with reality and some people suffered for trying to educate others.


Giordano Bruno was born in the Kingdom of Naples in 1548, only a few years after the death of Copernicus. At the age of 24 he was ordained a Dominican priest, although his curious and uninhibited mind had already attracted the disapproval of his teachers. Within a few years of ordination, he was accused of heresy - a first that would later occur many times. The very idea of heresy meant nothing to Bruno; he claimed for himself (and for others) the libertes philosophica, the right to philosophize, to dream, unfettered by authority or tradition. Poet, philosopher, loose cannon: Bruno wandered across Europe all his life - Italy, Geneva, France, England, Germany - stirring up a fuss wherever he went, offending Catholics and Protestants alike, shaking up preconceptions, rattling complacencies, asking philosophers and shopkeepers to entertain a doubt or two: The universe and God might be bigger than we think. He was a modern in many qualities of mind - materialist, rationalist, a champion of free and skeptical inquiry. The universe is a unity, he believed. He made no distinction between matter and spirit, body and soul, yet he was energized and exhilarated by the majesty of the universe as it was being revealed to the Renaissance successors of Copernicus. Among his more audacious dreams was of an infinitude of inhabited worlds - an idea that troubled the sleep of many a theologian. The problem, within Christian theology, had to do with the supposed uniqueness of Adam's fall into sin, and of the redemption of Christ. If there are other sentient beings in the universe, did they share in Adam's sin, and did they require separate acts of atonement on the part of the Redeemer?

In 1591, at the request of a potential patron, Bruno returned to Italy, to the Republic of Venice, perhaps because he was homesick, perhaps because he sought the Chair of Mathematics at the University of Padua, which he knew to be open. Big mistake. He was soon denounced by his erstwhile patron to the Inquisition. Extradited to Rome, he languished in a prison of the Holy Office for seven years, struggling to accommodate his tormenters without forsaking his principles.

Accommodation proved impossible. In February of 1600, he was taken gagged to the Campo de' Fiori, or ''Field of Flowers,'' and put to the stake.


Great man, speaking of freedom and unity, burned by catholics, way to go!

So who is having the last laugh really?

[tjohn]

God died on a cross for the sins of everyman, How can the Eternal GOD die? what more do you want him to do, how much more loving can you get than dieing in the place of someone else.Again, how can the Eternal GOD die? You guys have no understanding of my God and His word. NONE. Sorry 'Miracles' but you have much doublethink and little understanding of what GOD is. If you did you wouldnt be waxing lyrical so much bunkum in every single post about Him.GOD is not a Him or a Her, God is everything and it is you (although a very tiny part of God) who is talking bunkum. In regard to this very tiny part of the Universe, God is having a bad dream and you 'Miracles' are a (small) part of that bad dream.

However, you can help (as an individual in a very small way) to change the nightmare into a wonderful reality when you wake up.

[angelthecat]

any religion or belief system that requires you to spend time, money or effort in, or on, temples built with the hands of men can only be a deception in order to derive a living from someone's fears. And indeed only serves to feed those fears.

[miracles]

How can the Eternal GOD die? Again, how can the Eternal GOD die? Sorry 'Miracles' but you have much doublethink and little understanding of what GOD is. GOD is not a Him or a Her, God is everything and it is you (although are a very tiny part of God) who is talking bunkum. In regard to this very tiny part of the Universe, God is having a bad dream and you 'Miracles' are a (small) part of that bad dream.

However, you can help (as an individual in a very small way) to change the nightmare into a wonderful reality when you wake up.

He died in this dimension to defeat death and hell, and then rose from the death into the eternal dimension. He is our portal into eternal life out of death and hell. I have no double think at all. Im staight up the guts. I am not God, I am his creation. I dont believe in your religion, remember that.

[fallensoul]

He died in this dimension to defeat death and hell, and then rose from the death into the eternal dimension. He is our portal into eternal life out of death and hell. I have no double think at all. Im staight up the guts. I am not God, I am his creation. I dont believe in your religion, remember that.

When will they rematch?

[miracles]

When will they rematch?
Who death and hell? IT IS FINISHED MATE - no rematch. :D

[tannah]

[QUOTE]For instance a man has reasons to lie God doesn't need to lie, are you seriously telling me that we should only believe in God that doesn't punish that doesn't give a shit on what's going on down here, all of these murderers will go free, all of these people who are doing everything to suppress his will will simply be received with open arms, come on Seanx!!

Getting me confused with someone else? No Adbasque, you are talking about your own judgmental heart and vision of God, IMO. Murderers receive their karma. But how it is done is not by a God that partakes in the same actions. God is faithful to its nature, and never tempted by the kind of attachments we in the duality are.



Who said he is not God of love?
But some people will be punished for what they did to others not to him.
people who were powerful and felt invincible on this earth when they stand before him, they will be judged and punished accordingly if God sees they don't deserve any punishments then he won't punish them, what is so morbid about this?


It's a fantasy Adbasque. It's you that wants to manifest a God like this.
When you realize that there is no God to support your judgemental desires
it will come as a shock to you no doubt.



You want to believe in a world and after life without any kind of justice none whatsoever??

That's what you are saying, not me. Every unbalanced action has to be repaid.


Who's going to punish the Rothschilds, Hitler, the Pharahos and many many many more? You? This infinite consciousness that's not even been defined?

It is defined in a sense, and I'll come to that later. These people you mention will pay their debts. The only difference is , Adbasque, that the eternal infinite source can only be experienced when one is at balance and not dual in nature, but having unified the dual forces back into the reality of the one force. The duality takes care of things. An unbalanced act brings the laws of duality into play, and a spirit has to return until it has discovered balance.



David Icke and others took the essence of the idea and interpreted as he sees it, that doesn't mean he is right, DI is just a bloke like you and me, he is not some kind of a God or genius, he has a lot of things wrong.
"Infinite" yes we are all infinite, God is certainly infinite, but where are we going to be infinite more to the point??

David Icke is not the main person behind my reasoning about an all pervading consciousness in the universe. Try Walter Russell, John Keely, Amit Goswami, and my own reasoning, to name others.


Seanx you god and my god there is only one God, we need to understand what we're talking about.
Ok answer me this please, why are we here on earth?
Why are we not where we should be, with this infinite consciousness?
Why do we have to live here first before joining this infinite consciousness?
Why are we alive and with a such a short life?


Young spirits planted into the soil, born in darkness, reaching for the light through experience, cultivating the true value of free will.

If one were to poke a finger in a pool of water and disturb the water, the process would become one of expansion and contraction, as the waves ripple outwards in concentric circles. Eventually it will come back to balance. Our journeys through the duality will bring us back to balance. An "evil" action requires a "good" action, just like expansion requires contraction in order to manifest the ripple. But the principle is always governed by the neutral centre. It is the neutral aspect that allows for expansion to be repaid by contraction.




Truth is not always as you want it to be, truth sometimes can be harsh even difficult to accept, nevertheless it's still the truth and reality.

Truth cannnot betray reason and wisdom. The Gods of the bible and quran do both. Justice is not a God of retribution, but justice is balancing of the dual forces back into the reality of the one force.



Why don't you tell me a little bit about this Infinite consciousness, these are just two words, which can mean nothing and anything any interpretation, can you point it to one solid fact and truth backed with evidence?


I would suggest reading Universal One by Walter Russell (or anything else you care to find on him). And if you have a moment watch the first five minutes of this talk. The observer/consciousness collapses the wave function. The observer is seperate from objects, and is therefore more intrinsic than the object. Start weighing up the implications.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2205085164589294201





Give me one good reason why should I believe what you're saying instead of what I already know?
How do I know what you're talking about is anywhere near truth or reality?

Adbasque, any reasons given will be second hand to you as the receiver, if it comes from an outside source. I've shared my views, no more. I wish you well in your own deliberations. Suffice to say I have spent many years as a person who believed God would come punish a Hitler. I have walked on from that, and now I see the process by which Hitler will repay his debts and he too will become a balanced being. Reason and Love will balance the most aweful of actions.


You say we should respect each other's views and unite. It does seem to me
that you are as much unaccepting of my views as I am about the view that the bible and quran are actually the word of God. But we have made inroads here about what we both stand for, and it should be plain to see which of the two is about true unity.

[tannah]

I am sorry what you see as an illusion I don't see it as an illusion at all, on the contrary, it's something real, concrete, believing in god just like that, what is the purpose in just being and believing?

You have to understand your reason for being here (1)
You have to understand why and how you should believe and worship God (2)

He wants to be worshipped not just believed in him, he didn't create us and everything around us just because he got bored, he made us for a purpose, and some people are so arrogant, just like the Pharaohs were, they knew he existed but despite the efforts of the Prophets, they kept enslaving human beings, thinking of themselves of being the Gods, they were warned, approached nicely, many times over, they simply were too arrogant to admit it.
And guess what they lost, they did lose every single one of them, where are they now? They too believed in the after life, they even buried themselves with their Gold and money to take to the next life.

If they were such Gods why do they need the Gold for? How come they didn't know where they were going? How can they claim to be Gods and at the same time, they haven't got a clue where they were heading?

No Tannah, you need to ask a lot of questions, and until you find the right answers, what you're suggesting right here, is not a reality, we are not here by pure chance, we are not here to "experience" if that was the case believe me we would be here for a very very longtime not just a miserable 70+ years on average.


That's what I've been saying about the "miserable" 70+ years. It doesn't make sense that one has to experience an eternity in hell for not leading a perfect life here in that time. Ask yourself many more questions too Adbasque.

Ask yourself how crowded this hell is going to be compared to heaven....no catholics, no muslims, not buddhists, no atheists, pantheists, istists, ismisms...only Christians that "believed" in Jesus.

[tjohn]

Who death and hell? IT IS FINISHED MATE - no rematch. :DChrist said "I and the Father are one" yet also said, "The Father is greater than I"... that's odd, don't you think, but you might have some crazy religious explanation for the contradiction.

Perhaps the crux of the matter (pun intended) is that "it is written" in the Bible, that Christ died for us all and said "it is Finished" John 19:30 So why are some today 'saved' and others not? "Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire." Rev 20:14

Well, I do detect doublethink nonsense when interpreted by religious interpretations. And all you have is the Bible which you called Scripture and of course, "all scripture is inspired of God"! Scripture means writing (as this is also writing), so stop following Scripture writings rather than finding your true heart. You don't need a Book nor Religion.

[adbasque]

I wasn't brought up a Christian either. Im sorry that you see me as discourteous, however, the bible is not the quaran, they are two enitirely different religions.

I never said you were discourteous, I wouldn't dare call you that, all I said is to simply show a little respect when you said the Qu'ran isn't the word of God it's probably what you believe but it's not necessarily so, I don't believe in Christianity the same way you do obviously but I do respect your belief that's all I said.

You are not a discourteous guy as far as I am concerned.
We know that the Bible has been heavily tampered with and it's still being tampered with, as for the Qu'ran God made sure it won't be tampered with, for many reasons.
One it was revealed in a form of poetry, you can't change a word or a meaning of it.
It has to rime if it doesn't the bells will go off, it is also numerically intercoded, it was taught by heart while the Prophet was still alive, it was learnt in many different places of the globe at the same time, and there are more reasons why they couldn't change it.

These are just the few I mentioned, a person has to take a real look at it, and decide for yourself, after you had all the facts.


I am of the opinion that the quran is a plagurism of the bible (hense the similarities) it's yet another tampered with version of the bible, as you know the quran has not been tampered with, because in my opinion, it is not the word of God. Therefor the enemy of God has no need to tamper with it.

No it's not the plagiarism of the bible, the reason for the similarities is because it's the same message from the same God all the way back to Adam (PBUH).

Think of it that way, Islam is the final religion, God did things step by step, he never forced his laws in one go, it's like training a child and get him used to things one at the time.

Now let me explain one thing here if I may, The Torah and the Bible were both sent down to "Beni Israel" Why? Because at the time the Hebrews were the most persecuted and were the only people who believed in the One God and his prophets not all of the Hebrews but a great number of them not their priests though, the Hebrew high priests were so corrupt and hated God. we are not going into this, that's for another day.




Tell me then who do you say Jesus is? And then we will see where the similarities begin and end.

Well Jesus (Issa) (PBUH) is for us "Muslims" a Prophet like all the other Prophets, he was not killed, someone else was taken in his place, he was "Rufiaa" Lifted to the heavens, the Virgin mary his mother was indeed virgin and she didn't have any sexual intercourse with any man etc...

I guess we agree on this too
We do not believe in the son of God or him being God nor did he die for our sins, it's simply doesn't make any sense, for the simple reasons, God is not going to lower himself to our level, God doesn't have children with his own creatures, if he wanted him as his Son, he would've just sent him straight from heaven without a human mother.

We believe Issa will return at the end of times, to first Kill the Dajal (Anti Christ) to establish peace on earth, to rule, to get married have children and die like most people, because it says in the Qu'ran every being has to taste death, meaning everything he has created has to die someday, at the moment the only one that hasn't died is Jesus (PBUH) because his mission isn't completed yet.
Anyway as I said before it's a long debate and it will require a hell of a long time to go into the small details.


In my opinion a bible verses Quran debate would be more fruitful for you than arguing your case for religion with the likes of TJohn and others. You need to defend your own faith you do not need to campaign vigourously for people to have the right to their beliefs IE all religion in general, because that is already a given. And quite frankly, you defending the right for people to have their religion in general does not do the the cause for a faith in the bible much good when I am up against people who misquote biblical scripture. As a muslim you do not have to contend with idiots who ramble on adinfintum about "muhamed consciouness" while misquoting the koran out of context, at least you only have to contend with that sort of thing with other muslim brothers and not the infidel persay.
Yes I wouldn't call them misquotes, when we use misquote it's almost as if to say by accident or pure ignorance, but I would use the term out of context, deliberately taken out of context by mainly the Zionists i.e the Elite.


Meanwhile people who hate christianity and the bible, christians and the Christian God think they can quote the bible (the book written by God) to win arguements with Christians. I'd like to see you figure that one out if they did it with the Quran.

Also if you read both books, why did you choose the Quran religion over the biblical religion?

Believe me generally people who hate Christianity, hate Islam if not more lol, I have been on both side of the fence I can tell the difference.

I know they usually claim that religion spreads intolerance and hatred but from what I have seen here in the last few months is that the foot is in the other shoe.

I don't have a problem with people who don't believe in what I believe, so why can't they accept me as I am? Unless I ditch my religion they won't accept me, so if that's the case we will remain divided, I didn't ask for a division, but they do.

Take care

[tannah]

I never said you were discourteous, I wouldn't dare call you that, all I said is to simply show a little respect when you said the Qu'ran isn't the word of God it's probably what you believe but it's not necessarily so, I don't believe in Christianity the same way you do obviously but I do respect your belief that's all I said.

You are not a discourteous guy as far as I am concerned.
We know that the Bible has been heavily tampered with and it's still being tampered with, as for the Qu'ran God made sure it won't be tampered with, for many reasons.
One it was revealed in a form of poetry, you can't change a word or a meaning of it.
It has to rime if it doesn't the bells will go off, it is also numerically intercoded, it was taught by heart while the Prophet was still alive, it was learnt in many different places of the globe at the same time, and there are more reasons why they couldn't change it.

These are just the few I mentioned, a person has to take a real look at it, and decide for yourself, after you had all the facts.



No it's not the plagiarism of the bible, the reason for the similarities is because it's the same message from the same God all the way back to Adam (PBUH).

Think of it that way, Islam is the final religion, God did things step by step, he never forced his laws in one go, it's like training a child and get him used to things one at the time.

Now let me explain one thing here if I may, The Torah and the Bible were both sent down to "Beni Israel" Why? Because at the time the Hebrews were the most persecuted and were the only people who believed in the One God and his prophets not all of the Hebrews but a great number of them not their priests though, the Hebrew high priests were so corrupt and hated God. we are not going into this, that's for another day.





Well Jesus (Issa) (PBUH) is for us "Muslims" a Prophet like all the other Prophets, he was not killed, someone else was taken in his place, he was "Rufiaa" Lifted to the heavens, the Virgin mary his mother was indeed virgin and she didn't have any sexual intercourse with any man etc...

I guess we agree on this too
We do not believe in the son of God or him being God nor did he die for our sins, it's simply doesn't make any sense, for the simple reasons, God is not going to lower himself to our level, God doesn't have children with his own creatures, if he wanted him as his Son, he would've just sent him straight from heaven without a human mother.

We believe Issa will return at the end of times, to first Kill the Dajal (Anti Christ) to establish peace on earth, to rule, to get married have children and die like most people, because it says in the Qu'ran every being has to taste death, meaning everything he has created has to die someday, at the moment the only one that hasn't died is Jesus (PBUH) because his mission isn't completed yet.
Anyway as I said before it's a long debate and it will require a hell of a long time to go into the small details.


Yes I wouldn't call them misquotes, when we use misquote it's almost as if to say by accident or pure ignorance, but I would use the term out of context, deliberately taken out of context by mainly the Zionists i.e the Elite.



Believe me generally people who hate Christianity, hate Islam if not more lol, I have been on both side of the fence I can tell the difference.

I know they usually claim that religion spreads intolerance and hatred but from what I have seen here in the last few months is that the foot is in the other shoe.

I don't have a problem with people who don't believe in what I believe, so why can't they accept me as I am? Unless I ditch my religion they won't accept me, so if that's the case we will remain divided, I didn't ask for a division, but they do.

Take care

As far as Miracles is concerend you're off to hell Adbasque. You two are very good at getting things out of context as well, in your own indomitable ways. No one has been attacking you. People have got the right to call any book into question, especially the aforementioned ones. GET USED TO IT, and stop pretending we are nasty people intolerant of you. if anything my experience shows me it is very much people like you and Miracles that do the intolerance act very subtly and well.

Underneath your unity speak, do you accept anything other than the quran as the word of God? Do you believe that real unity is to unify around the quran?

And the problem is you will now take this post and pretend it's intolerance from me. Look, if you don't want an adult like discussion about perceived inconsistencies in your books of faith just say so now, and I'll respect that.

[tjohn]

No it's not the plagiarism of the bible, the reason for the similarities is because it's the same message from the same God all the way back to Adam (PBUH).Were you there?

Think of it that way, Islam is the final religion, God did things step by step, he never forced his laws in one go, it's like training a child and get him used to things one at the time.More like the 'Elite' training us so they can have greater control.

Now let me explain one thing here if I may, The Torah and the Bible were both sent down to "Beni Israel" Why? Because at the time the Hebrews were the most persecuted Like when the Hebrews slaughtered people not sparing man, woman or child? And as you know, they are still at it. And as you should acknowledge, followers of the Islamic religion also murder people. Yet you say its the same perfect and most merciful God. :confused:

and were the only people who believed in the One GodNope!
1) An Egyptian Pharaoh (forget his name, I am very tired now) tried to converge the gods into one God. In a way he was right, because everything is of the same.
2) The Sumerian 'gods' often mentioned "the God of all".
3) The Bible of which is partly a (distorted) copy of the Sumerian texts, says that "us" made man (Adam) but religion would have us believe that the "us" is singular not plural. Same as the "We" in the Qur'an.

Join the dots.

Well Jesus (Issa) (PBUH) is for us "Muslims" a Prophet like all the other Prophets, he was not killed, someone else was taken in his place, he was "Rufiaa" Lifted to the heavens, the Virgin mary his mother was indeed virgin and she didn't have any sexual intercourse with any man etc... Then who or what did she have sexual intercourse with? Oh, the 'Holy Spirit' descended upon her - in other words an 'angel' fucked her! :eek: Obvious really. Or of course the whole story could be a complete fabrication.

[adbasque]

As far as Miracles is concerend you're off to hell Adbasque. You two are very good at getting things out of context as well, in your own indomitable ways.

I didn't get things out of context, which context what did I get out of context?
If Miracles thinks I am off to hell, it's his opinion, I am not going to attack him for believing this, am i?


No one has been attacking you. People have got the right to call any book into question, especially the aforementioned ones. GET USED TO IT, and stop pretending we are nasty people intolerant of you. if anything my experience shows me it is very much people like you and Miracles that do the intolerance act very subtly and well.

Believe me I am used to it, but that doesn't mean I will simply curl up and die, I know what I know and I will defend my position.
You have the right to your opinion so do I.

You are attacking me, how much do you know about my faith or me?
Nothing, I am positive that you have no idea what is in my religion, or the Qu'ran, you assumed that the Qu'ran is the same as the Bible, as Miracles there are similarities but not at all the same.

In Any case, the mention of punishment to you, you disregard it as the word of God, you turn him into a psychopath or something, it never occured to you that just maybe you haven't understood it and you don't really know what the holy Book is all about.

Now let me ask you this question
If you think the Qu'ran isn't the word of God as you claim.
Tell me in your own words, how come all of the things mentioned in this book 1400 years ago, by an illiterate man, only to be discovered in this century with the technology, if you can explain this to me then I will consider other things than my "crazy holy book" are you up to the challenge?
Can you consider it another alternative to you own belief?
Can you accept and admit that you were wrong?


Underneath your unity speak, do you accept anything other than the quran as the word of God? Do you believe that real unity is to unify around the quran?

Your first sentence here, is a personal judgement of my person, you are judging me and what I have in my heart, which you have no right in doing so, you can't possibly know what I am thinking or what it's in my heart.

Show me another word that is from God, and show me the proof yes I will look at it.
As for unity yes I believe human beings can unite despite their differences but you obviously can't see this as a possibility.
Can you?


And the problem is you will now take this post and pretend it's intolerance from me. Look, if you don't want an adult like discussion about perceived inconsistencies in your books of faith just say so now, and I'll respect that.

I don't have a problem with a proper discussion, I respect your points and opinions even though I don't believe in them.
I am not going to take it as an intolerance if you debate without for instance the insults, meaning you make your point without trying to ridicule my belief and I'll do the same.

[adbasque]

Was your there?
Were you there is the correct English John (Not important)

I wasn't there John, why don't you ask a proper question instead for a change.
But because we believe in all of the Prophets, do you know how many Prophets came since Adam (PBUH)??
If you knew you could follow and see that the message is from the same God


More like the 'Elite' training us so they can have greater control.

God is the one who gave you life and everything else, the Elite is a greedy bastard human being who wants to take everything away from you including your life.

Please try and talk some sense instead of repeating, as a matter of a fact you're the one unwillingly helping that Elite.
If the Elite designed these religions why the hell is he fighting them then??
Look around you see what the Elite are doing and compare with religion and you will see if they have invented it, don't talk nonsense please, try and think outside the box that you're confined in.


Like when the Hebrews slaughtered people not sparing man, woman or child? And as you know, they are still at it. And as you should acknowledge followers of the Islamic religion also murder people. Yet you say it's the same perfect and most merciful God.

I did say some Hebrews did believe not all, don't twist my words, the ones that didn't want to believe in one God, are the same ones who were persecuting the believers. get your facts straight and the same ones who tried later on to kill Jesus too and are the same ones you call today the Elite.


Nope!
1) An Egyptian Pharaoh (forget his name, I am very tired now) tried to converge the gods into one God. In a way he was right, because everything is of the same.
2) The Sumerian 'gods' often mentioned "the God of all".
3) The Bible of which is partly a (distorted) copy of the Sumerian texts, says that "us" made man (Adam) but religion would have us believe that the "us" is singular not plural. Same as the "We" in the Qur'an.

Look you want to believe in the Summerian texts go ahead, for me it's a fabrication, you're not an expert, so you believe someone elses words.

The Pharahos you're looking for is Akhenaten he is also mentioned in the Qu'ran, he didn't converge he believed in the one God and he completely rejected his old beliefs because he was convinced and he was the only Pharaoh who did that.


Then who or what did she have sexual intercourse with? Oh, the 'Holy Spirit' descended upon her - in other words an 'angel' fucked her! :eek: Obvious really.

Act like an adult please, show some respect to people, get your finger out of your arrogant arse, he is God he can do what he wants, do you think he created Adam out of nothing he created everything else in the heavens and yet he can't make one of his creatures pregnant?

I sincerely believe you're completely lost and you're just a sad bitter twisted old man.
Very limited in the general knowledge John, you are a repeater I don't know what the JW did to you but they definitely screwed you up good.

There's no holy spirit, God wants something it will happen, be and it is.

You don't know the meaning of the words, peace, love or respect nevermind the tolerance.
I have told you before John, try and be less arrogant and you will be able to see other avenues.

I have had enough of you

[tannah]

I didn't get things out of context, which context what did I get out of context?
If Miracles thinks I am off to hell, it's his opinion, I am not going to attack him for believing this, am i?


The whole idea that any criticism on the quran is an insult to you, is not a rational position.

You don't have to attack anyone. You can simply use your reason in order to disagree. Why is disagreement a personal attack?



You are attacking me,

No I'm not.


how much do you know about my faith or me?

Not a lot about you, enough about Islam to have the right to question.



Nothing, I am positive that you have no idea what is in my religion, or the Qu'ran, you assumed that the Qu'ran is the same as the Bible, as Miracles there are similarities but not at all the same.

Then you're wrong. The only comment I made is that both the quran and the bible are considered the word of God. Both have their numerological "proof" too. I know some of the passages, about Jesus, Muhammed and some of the actions that I find, to be honest, quite distasteful. I'm aware of the histories of both faiths, their clashes and expansions and contractions around the globe.

I'm aware of Islam's intolerances and their own distaste for the western cultures. The death penalties on blaspheming Allah or the Prophet, as in Rushdie's case, for example.

I know that I have had Muslim friends throughout my life, and none of them would view me as an intolerant person. Having said that they agree about their own intolerances, but we still go out and have a nice night out sometimes.




In Any case, the mention of punishment to you, you disregard it as the word of God, you turn him into a psychopath or something, it never occured to you that just maybe you haven't understood it and you don't really know what the holy Book is all about.

Well I know that I've come to recognize a different natured God. I am jot intolerant of the bible or quran. It is a series of perceptions regarding God.
I am suggesting people have used the name of God, and that the real nature of God has been corrupted by allowing oneself to pin on IT these acts of murder and dictum.





Now let me ask you this question
If you think the Qu'ran isn't the word of God as you claim.
Tell me in your own words, how come all of the things mentioned in this book 1400 years ago, by an illiterate man, only to be discovered in this century with the technology, if you can explain this to me then I will consider other things than my "crazy holy book" are you up to the challenge?
Can you consider it another alternative to you own belief?
Can you accept and admit that you were wrong?

You're not making sense there. Ask me again, what is it you want to know? About the number stuff in the quran?



Your first sentence here, is a personal judgement of my person, you are judging me and what I have in my heart, which you have no right in doing so, you can't possibly know what I am thinking or what it's in my heart.

There is no judgment in that question. I'll ask it again, and this time bear in mind there is no judgment behind it.

Underneath your unity speak, do you accept anything other than the quran as the word of God? Do you believe that real unity is to unify around the quran?



Show me another word that is from God, and show me the proof yes I will look at it.

So yes, you accept the quran as the word of God, and you may be suggesting here that you have yet to see another "word of god" elsewhere. So here we get the christians chime in and say "ummm, excuse me, the bible is the word of god, not the quran"......and I for one know that most often it will end in violence.

As for unity yes I believe human beings can unite despite their differences but you obviously can't see this as a possibility.
Can you?

I see it without the need to believe in irrational natures of God. In fact, I also suggest that it is those irrational beliefs that will always stifle real unity.
Could you admit to being wrong?


I don't have a problem with a proper discussion, I respect your points and opinions even though I don't believe in them.
I am not going to take it as an intolerance if you debate without for instance the insults, meaning you make your point without trying to ridicule my belief and I'll do the same.

I realize the "insult" card is rather easy to play. Ridicule doesn't come into it.
I am offering you the same freedom of expression I expect myself. I can't help viewing certian perceptions of God in a critical light. That does not equate as to my hating the believer. In fact I have pinned on my fridge door "hate sin by not hating the sinner". Can you see the difference? It is a wonderful thing that we have fought for the rights to question dogma, and I think this forum is better than most at defending that right.

I'd also like to question the comment you made to Miracles about not regarding him as discourteous. This man wanted me to slash my wrists. If you don't regard him as discoureous, does that mean you are insulting me?

Either way, I couldn't give a damn who insults me. I can wade through the mind games and get back to the subject regardless. I'm not that sensitive to being hurt.

But bear in mind that you have complimented a man who believes you will go to hell, and insulted a man who would like nothing more than for people to wake up and leave past superstitions behind and actually unite, before the "elite" take that possibility away.

[reality man]

any religion or belief system that requires you to spend time, money or effort in, or on, temples built with the hands of men can only be a deception in order to derive a living from someone's fears. And indeed only serves to feed those fears.


Powerfully said angelhecat - I fully agree!

[adbasque]

The whole idea that any criticism on the quran is an insult to you, is not a rational position.

You don't have to attack anyone. You can simply use your reason in order to disagree. Why is disagreement a personal attack?

Tannah, I have never regarded any criticism of myself, my faith or the Qu'ran as an insult, what I regard as an insult, is the tone that some people use.

Can you see the difference?
You criticise my religion or the Qu'ran, provide me with some proof, when you criticise something, you must have solid and valid arguments, wouldn't you?
What if you criticise something you don't fully understand, you agree it's possibility, right?





No I'm not.


Ok if you say so I believe you.
And it's not important so long as we stay on the subject.
What I think of you and what you think of me is irrelevant.




Not a lot about you, enough about Islam to have the right to question.


Maybe you don't know enough, judging for what you stated bellow, I can only assume that you don't have enough knowledge regarding Islam and the Qu'ran at all.



Then you're wrong. The only comment I made is that both the quran and the bible are considered the word of God. Both have their numerological "proof" too. I know some of the passages, about Jesus, Muhammed and some of the actions that I find, to be honest, quite distasteful. I'm aware of the histories of both faiths, their clashes and expansions and contractions around the globe.

yes this hardly knowing the "Religion" is it? you know the political side of it, what it was used for as opposed to what it is :)


I'm aware of Islam's intolerances and their own distaste for the western cultures. The death penalties on blaspheming Allah or the Prophet, as in Rushdie's case, for example.

You are aware of what most non Muslim are aware of, where did you think this awarness came from?
As I said above, you know what seem to be not what it is.

What death penalty?
Suleiman Rushdie, was a political provocateur, put there by the Zionist and the Elite to create that outrage.
Who they were showing you on TV shouting death to him?
The true Muslims?
I don't want to kill him, I don't feel offended you know why?
First I am not his judge it's between him and God
Second, if I react to his lies and manipulation that means there's some truth in what he says, I don't count him at all, I know he is a tool to create hatred, I know a lot fools fell for it, but not every Muslim out there knows what his/her religion really stands for.



I know that I have had Muslim friends throughout my life, and none of them would view me as an intolerant person. Having said that they agree about their own intolerances, but we still go out and have a nice night out sometimes.

In that case "They" should check their religion one more time, if they are aware of their own intolerances, then it's a step forward to solve their problem.

That speaks of some individuals, Muslims don't make religion, religion makes Muslims.
Cat Stevens said it and I fully agree with him, I quote him "Thank God I knew Islam before I met some Muslims" because some people out there who call themselves Muslims are nothing but a disgrace to our faith and to mankind.






Well I know that I've come to recognize a different natured God. I am jot intolerant of the bible or quran. It is a series of perceptions regarding God.
I am suggesting people have used the name of God, and that the real nature of God has been corrupted by allowing oneself to pin on IT these acts of murder and dictum.

Yes there's a lot of truth here, and when I said the Torah and the Bible were both corruped, there are a lot of things been added and things been removed, altered changed etc..
over the centuries.








You're not making sense there. Ask me again, what is it you want to know? About the number stuff in the quran?

No not just number stuff :D
I mean a lot of things, I can't mention them all here, there are a lot of dicoveries, that were mentioned in the Qu'ran and only been discovered recently with the help of the modern technology.

I can cite you some non-muslim scientists today who use the Qu'ran in their own research.
But without this, the numerological evidence, other pieces of evidence, that nobody could've known, only discovered recently.





There is no judgment in that question. I'll ask it again, and this time bear in mind there is no judgment behind it.
Underneath your unity speak, do you accept anything other than the quran as the word of God? Do you believe that real unity is to unify around the quran?


The reason I am on this forum, has nothing to do with my faith nor religion, I came here for one purpose and one purpose only, I couldn't care less what people believed or what background they came from.

I came here in a "Hope" that we unite despite our differences for the one purpose that we unite and fight our common enemy, that was my only reason of being here, I was really surprised to find a section on this forum called "Religion" I had no intentions in discussing religion.

Which in a way I find it rather a waste of time, because people have their own belief, so long as they respect me and I respect them, what we believe is irrelevant, I wanted to unite to fight for our survivor as humans against the evil Elite.

Do I believe that we all need to unify around the Qu'ran?
Not at all, I never believed that and I still don't believe it, and it's irrelevant, so long as we all show mutual respect to one another.
and we all have a common and urgent goal, to get rid of these bastards, that lost all human empathy.


So yes, you accept the quran as the word of God, and you may be suggesting here that you have yet to see another "word of god" elsewhere. So here we get the christians chime in and say "ummm, excuse me, the bible is the word of god, not the quran"......and I for one know that most often it will end in violence.

I will not fight someone simply because he believes in something different, you can pull a book right now and say to me this is a word of God, first I need to see the evidence, you agree?

But to turn it into violence No, it will only turn to violence if you insult me and what I believe in and even then I will just ignore you.
I don't need to be violent or hateful.




I see it without the need to believe in irrational natures of God. In fact, I also suggest that it is those irrational beliefs that will always stifle real unity.
Could you admit to being wrong?

If proven I am wrong yes I will admit it, without a doubt, could you? :D




I realize the "insult" card is rather easy to play. Ridicule doesn't come into it.
I am offering you the same freedom of expression I expect myself. I can't help viewing certian perceptions of God in a critical light. That does not equate as to my hating the believer. In fact I have pinned on my fridge door "hate sin by not hating the sinner". Can you see the difference? It is a wonderful thing that we have fought for the rights to question dogma, and I think this forum is better than most at defending that right.

I totally agree with that, even if I know you're wrong or ignorant, I will dislike your views but I won't hate you as a person.
I know the difference between a sin and a sinner.


I'd also like to question the comment you made to Miracles about not regarding him as discourteous. This man wanted me to slash my wrists. If you don't regard him as discoureous, does that mean you are insulting me?

I said as far as I am concerned, to me he wasn't discourteous, and I am not insulting you at all, I don't know what went on between you, I don't know why he said this to you, I only heard your version, as you know there are two versions for every story.

So you can understand why I can't comment on this.


Either way, I couldn't give a damn who insults me. I can wade through the mind games and get back to the subject regardless. I'm not that sensitive to being hurt.

But bear in mind that you have complimented a man who believes you will go to hell, and insulted a man who would like nothing more than for people to wake up and leave past superstitions behind and actually unite, before the "elite" take that possibility away.

As I said, I didn't compliment him, I simply didn't think he was discourteous, besides it's not Miracles or anyone elses decision, it's God's decision, if he wants to punish me or put me in heaven that's entirely up to God not what Miracles or anyone else says.

If he believes I am going to hell it's only his opinion and his belief, If I told you you are going to hell, who am I to decide where you're going? :D

That decision belongs to God and God alone, he knows what to do with each one of us.
I am not thin skinned about things like these.
If he was discourteous with me, I'll tell him he was discourteous.

I know one thing, no matter how much we disagree, I would never ever wish you any harm.
For two reasons.
One is I am human, and even if I think you're a sinner, remember your own quote above? Hate the sin not the sinner? that applies here.

Second: It means I go against all the teachings of my faith and religion.

I hope that clarifies my position and my stance.

[miracles]

"The Father is greater than I"...

so stop following Scripture writings rather than finding your true heart. You don't need a Book nor Religion.

Where does it say this in the bible?

Dont presume to know my heart please.

[miracles]

I never said you were discourteous, I wouldn't dare call you that, all I said is to simply show a little respect when you said the Qu'ran isn't the word of God it's probably what you believe but it's not necessarily so, I don't believe in Christianity the same way you do obviously but I do respect your belief that's all I said.

You are not a discourteous guy as far as I am concerned.
We know that the Bible has been heavily tampered with and it's still being tampered with, as for the Qu'ran God made sure it won't be tampered with, for many reasons.
One it was revealed in a form of poetry, you can't change a word or a meaning of it.
It has to rime if it doesn't the bells will go off, it is also numerically intercoded, it was taught by heart while the Prophet was still alive, it was learnt in many different places of the globe at the same time, and there are more reasons why they couldn't change it.

These are just the few I mentioned, a person has to take a real look at it, and decide for yourself, after you had all the facts.



No it's not the plagiarism of the bible, the reason for the similarities is because it's the same message from the same God all the way back to Adam (PBUH).

Think of it that way, Islam is the final religion, God did things step by step, he never forced his laws in one go, it's like training a child and get him used to things one at the time.

Now let me explain one thing here if I may, The Torah and the Bible were both sent down to "Beni Israel" Why? Because at the time the Hebrews were the most persecuted and were the only people who believed in the One God and his prophets not all of the Hebrews but a great number of them not their priests though, the Hebrew high priests were so corrupt and hated God. we are not going into this, that's for another day.





Well Jesus (Issa) (PBUH) is for us "Muslims" a Prophet like all the other Prophets, he was not killed, someone else was taken in his place, he was "Rufiaa" Lifted to the heavens, the Virgin mary his mother was indeed virgin and she didn't have any sexual intercourse with any man etc...

I guess we agree on this too
We do not believe in the son of God or him being God nor did he die for our sins, it's simply doesn't make any sense, for the simple reasons, God is not going to lower himself to our level, God doesn't have children with his own creatures, if he wanted him as his Son, he would've just sent him straight from heaven without a human mother.

We believe Issa will return at the end of times, to first Kill the Dajal (Anti Christ) to establish peace on earth, to rule, to get married have children and die like most people, because it says in the Qu'ran every being has to taste death, meaning everything he has created has to die someday, at the moment the only one that hasn't died is Jesus (PBUH) because his mission isn't completed yet.
Anyway as I said before it's a long debate and it will require a hell of a long time to go into the small details.


Yes I wouldn't call them misquotes, when we use misquote it's almost as if to say by accident or pure ignorance, but I would use the term out of context, deliberately taken out of context by mainly the Zionists i.e the Elite.



Believe me generally people who hate Christianity, hate Islam if not more lol, I have been on both side of the fence I can tell the difference.

I know they usually claim that religion spreads intolerance and hatred but from what I have seen here in the last few months is that the foot is in the other shoe.

I don't have a problem with people who don't believe in what I believe, so why can't they accept me as I am? Unless I ditch my religion they won't accept me, so if that's the case we will remain divided, I didn't ask for a division, but they do.

Take care

I accept you as you are but I dont except that the Quran is word of God at all, purely on the basis of what it says about Christ. No offense intended. Everyone trotts out that old arguement that the bible has been tampered with, but God promised to preserve His word, He has done just that. You have seen the work of Ivan Panin with the astonisihing numeric patterns of the mutiples of 7 13 and 19 through out the bible, if one word is changed these patterns disspaear so the original Greek and Hebrew has 100% been preserved as God intended. God also said when the bible was completed there would be no more prophesies. And yet the Quaran is alledgedly another prophesey just like the Book of mormon and so on and so forth.

There are two religions in the words, those who claim Christ is God and the only saviour for mankind and all those who do not.

[tjohn]

Where does it say this in the bible?
Dont presume to know my heart please.You are human aren't you?

[miracles]

You are human aren't you?
The Father is greater than I"...

I repeat, where does it say this in the bible??

[reality man]

I have found that beliefs tend to hypnotise people so much in some cases, that they cannot see the error of thier ways. Some may claim to be christian, but all they have is WORDS, beliefs and bible quotes....

...Where is the love to back up those words?

In a mind saturated with BELIEFS/hypnosis, we are capable of meting out all manner of hate, bigotry, injustice, and most importantly (as we have seen from some) absolute blind hypocrisy!

A sleeping mind does not know reality - it only knows the thoughts it has ABOUT reality. A sleeping mind only knows what it believes and so it will fight and argue for what it believes - because to that mind, what it believes is the truth. A sleeping mind is to be viewed with pity, because it is completely lost without realizing that it is lost. It doesn't know that it can experience the truth of reality first hand without the need to believe. Well - if I can see it, then I need not believe it anymore???

I think these forums teach us one thing - In a world without belief, we would all live in peace and unity!

[major seven]

The Father is greater than I"...

I repeat, where does it say this in the bible??

Hey M!
Found it here!
Thought it sounded familiar.

John 14:28
"You heard me say, I am going away and I am coming back to you.
If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I." (NIV Translation)

M7

[tjohn]

Were you there is the correct English John (Not important)Oh I did a typo! I wasn't there John, why don't you ask a proper question instead for a change.No you wasn't there and oh I did a typo! Now what? But because we believe in all of the Prophets, do you know how many Prophets came since Adam (PBUH)??An awful lot according to Islam, can't remember the exact figure... so? Anyone can claim to be a prophet and anyone can be a prophet at times, though religious people are much less likely to be a prophet when a fake prophet is misleading them. Make sense to you? Thought not. If you knew you could follow and see that the message is from the same GodWell, we are told that they are Abrahamic faiths but based on the Books your presumption is (that was my prophet mode saying that BTW), that Abraham's god is the God of the Universe.

Then suppose Abraham's god isn't really God? Sorry, just because something is written in your cleaver books it does not have to make it true and your god isn't God. Sorry about that.

God is the one who gave you life and everything else, the Elite is a greedy bastard human being who wants to take everything away from you including your life.And Religion doesn't take away lives?

Please try and talk some sense instead of repeating, as a matter of a fact you're the one unwillingly helping that Elite.

If the Elite designed these religions why the hell is he fighting them then??Then who's the 'he' that is fighting the Elite? Your interpretation of a most High and most powerful and most merciful God? Look around you see what the Elite are doing and compare with religion and you will see if they have invented it, don't talk nonsense please, try and think outside the box that you're confined in.I know you are in a box.
I did say some Hebrews did believe not all, don't twist my words, the ones that didn't want to believe in one God, are the same ones who were persecuting the believers. get your facts straight and the same ones who tried later on to kill Jesus too and are the same ones you call today the Elite.Well, with the Elite of the time and if Jesus existed, yes. Yet if Jesus did really exist then being such an intelligent man, he would be Elite.

Look you want to believe in the Summerian texts go ahead, for me it's a fabrication, you're not an expert, so you believe someone elses words.If the Sumerian texts are a fabrication then so is the bible because they came first and they speak about the creation of man and the flood and so on (only in more detail).

The Pharahos you're looking for is Akhenaten he is also mentioned in the Qu'ran, he didn't converge he believed in the one God and he completely rejected his old beliefs because he was convinced and he was the only Pharaoh who did that.Thanks for that... whatever.

Act like an adult please, show some respect to people, get your finger out of your arrogant arse, Several insults noted.

he is God he can do what he wants, do you think he created Adam out of nothing Of course Adam wasn't made from nothing and God isn't a 'he'.
he created everything else in the heavens and yet he can't make one of his creatures pregnant? Eh? :confused: How could Adam become pregnant? And I thought you believed that your god could not have sons. Are you talking about Mary? Ooops, same applies. Perhaps your question wasn't a question. Typo eh?

I sincerely believe you're completely lost and you're just a sad bitter twisted old man.More personal insults noted.

Very limited in the general knowledge John, In that way I'm a bit like your Mohammed then. Yes I have limited general knowledge but let me as an uneducated person who could hardly write when I left school, tell you what Religion is. It is a sticky spider web and the spider eats up your mind. A little parable for you there.

you are a repeater I don't know what the JW did to you but they definitely screwed you up good.No, it is religionists that are the repeaters!

In regard to JWs, I know what that's all about and I left them and can give them a challenge.

There's no holy spirit, God wants something it will happen, be and it is.Depends of what one means by holy spirit...

You don't know the meaning of the words, peace, love or respect nevermind the tolerance.More insultsI have told you before John, try and be less arrogant and you will be able to see other avenues.And more - you call me arrogant? Instead of answering properly, insults and arrogance is what you repeatedly show. Why? Could it be something to do with your arrogant religion?

I have had enough of youYou keep saying things like that but you keep coming back for more. I think you must love me. :D

[miracles]

Hey M!
Found it here!
Thought it sounded familiar.

John 14:28
"You heard me say, I am going away and I am coming back to you.
If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I." (NIV Translation)

M7

Okay. Cheers.

So what was the point of that scripture again TJOHN.

[tjohn]

John 14:28
"You heard me say, I am going away and I am coming back to you.
If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I." (NIV Translation)

So what was the point of that scripture again TJOHN.The point is that Jesus and his Father cannot be the same.

That is my Logos to you.

[live_free]

For those who haven't already seen the following:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2061773048178434620

[miracles]

The point is that Jesus and his Father cannot be the same.

That is my Logos to you.

Well you know hat the bible is clear that The Father the son and the spirit are one. The father is greatest. Thats the logos of God

[tannah]

For those who haven't already seen the following:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2061773048178434620

Cheers. Watched it in two spells. Filled in some holes in my understanding of it. Really liked what this guy said near the end, about maybe the real holy spirit is about being able to see through the works of man, and that his questioning is more about the work of the spirit than just accepting.

Well worth the watch. Thanks again.

[tjohn]

Well you know [t]hat the bible is clear that The Father the son and the spirit are one.Yes and no. The father is greatest.Yes, because the 'Father' is everything. So how come you think that Jesus is God in the whole?

Thats the logos of GodWithout religious slants and interpretations, the Greek word Logos means the expression of the mind, hence its translated in John 1 as the Word. So what is the expression of the Mind of God? Everything that exists!

[miracles]

Nope! Yes, because the Father is everything. So how come you think that Jesus is God in the whole?

Without religious slants and interpretations, the Greek word Logos means the expression of the mind, hence it's translated in John 1 as the Word. So what is the expression of the Mind of God? Everything that exists!

Becuase I am a Christian and thats what he bible teaches. You still have a JW hangover, they dont teach that, I thought you had moved on from them.

In the begining the word was with God and the word was God IE Jesus Christ. JW says the word was a god. You know that.

[tjohn]

Becuase I am a Christian and thats what he bible teaches. You still have a JW hangover, they dont teach that, I thought you had moved on from them.I know they don't teach that - so how come you suggest I have not moved on from them?

In the begining the word was with God and the word was God IE Jesus Christ. JW says the word was a god. You know that.Yes I know JWs say that and because of the lack of the definite article, they translate "a god."


So lets do a little Bible study, without the religious interpretations. (Because I quote the Bible one might at first glance think the following is religion but there are no doctrines as such, just logic. There's no Religion (with a capital "R") in this, that would cause people to be self-righteous and look down on others, because what it says is that we are all part of the same.)


John 1... "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God."

Well, that's quite a puzzle! How can we explain it? Is there a sort of Trinity here? Well yes in a way but I reserve that for later if I get round to it.


So the Logos is translated as Word - then what is a word? A word is an expression of a mind. Agree? In the case of John 1 that would be referring to the Mind of God. Right? So what is the expression of the Mind of God?

Everything, including (if he existed) Jesus. So of course the Logos became flesh! So of course (if he existed) Jesus was the expression of the Mind of God, we all are! Everything that exist is the expression of the Mind of God! How could God be God otherwise?

Get it?

Lets do a translation of John 1...
In the beginning was the expression of the Mind and the expression of the Mind was with God and the expression of the Mind was God. The same was in the beginning with God.


Now, we have a brain and we also have a mind - not quite the same thing. The same with the Universe of which we are a tiny part. A bit like a fractal, see?

We are a part the Universe and so reflect similar qualities as the rest of the Universe. Our brain processes information and so does the Universe but much more so. But where the spirit of the mind is, who knows? The Universe is like a brain that processes information but the Mind behind the Universe is apparently somewhere else.

That's why there isn't the definite article where the Bible says, "the Word was God" because that is referring to the Universe which was there "In the beginning" - whereas what this is really about is the Mind of God, hence the definite article where it says "with God."

So, how do I know this interpretation? I did not read it in any books and it's not like I am a very intelligent man either.

Whisper:
An angel told me in a dream. :D

There's more but that's enough for now. I might start another thread about it, I might not.

[miracles]

I know they don't teach that - so how come you suggest I have not moved on from them?

Yes I know JWs say that and because of the lack of the definite article, they translate "a god."


So lets do a little Bible study, without the religious interpretations. (Because I quote the Bible one might at first glance think the following is religion but there are no doctrines as such, just logic. There's no Religion (with a capital "R") in this, that would cause people to be self-righteous and look down on others, because what it says is that we are all part of the same.)


John 1... "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God."

Well, that's quite a puzzle! How can we explain it? Is there a sort of Trinity here? Well yes in a way but I reserve that for later if I get round to it.


So the Logos is translated as Word - then what is a word? A word is an expression of a mind. Agree? In the case of John 1 that would be referring to the Mind of God. Right? So what is the expression of the Mind of God?

Everything, including (if he existed) Jesus. So of course the Logos became flesh! So of course (if he existed) Jesus was the expression of the Mind of God, we all are! Everything that exist is the expression of the Mind of God! How could God be God otherwise?

Get it?

Lets do a translation of John 1...
In the beginning was the expression of the Mind and the expression of the Mind was with God and the expression of the Mind was God. The same was in the beginning with God.


Now, we have a brain and we also have a mind - not quite the same thing. The same with the Universe of which we are a tiny part. A bit like a fractal, see?

We are a part the Universe and so reflect similar qualities as the rest of the Universe. Our brain processes information and so does the Universe but much more so. But where the spirit of the mind is, who knows? The Universe is like a brain that processes information but the Mind behind the Universe is apparently somewhere else.

That's why there isn't the definite article where the Bible says, "the Word was God" because that is referring to the Universe which was there "In the beginning" - whereas what this is really about is the Mind of God, hence the definite article where it says "with God."

So, how do I know this interpretation? I did not read it in any books and it's not like I am a very intelligent man either.

Whisper:
An angel told me in a dream. :D

There's more but that's enough for now. I might start another thread about it, I might not.

TJohn, I dont really have a problem with you interpreting this scripture this way, its your freewill, but I do need to follow it with another question, This would imply that you think Jesus was just like us and we are just like JEsus, IE god, is that correct?

[tjohn]

TJohn, I dont really have a problem with you interpreting this scripture this way, its your freewill, but I do need to follow it with another question, This would imply that you think Jesus was just like us and we are just like JEsus, IE god, is that correct?We are all part of God and the bible says that Jesus was a man. Not an ordinary man but a man nevertheless. He (if we are to believe the bible) was the "son of man" as well as the "son of God." Well, thinking about it, we all are.

Peace!

John

[miracles]

We are all part of God and the bible says that Jesus was a man. Not an ordinary man but a man nevertheless. He (if we are to believe the bible) was the "son of man" as well as the "son of God." Well, thinking about it, we all are.

Peace!

John

I believe the bible clearly teaches that Jesus was God (Not the father, but the son, the holy spirit is also God, as you know this is the Christian faith.

Peace



Peace.

[tjohn]

I believe the bible clearly teaches that Jesus was GodWell of course, everyone is God in a way by being part of the whole. (Not the father, but the son, the holy spirit is also God, as you know this is the Christian faith.

PeaceHow can someone be himself and his father at the same time? Have already given you some clues... :)

[kidsarocker]

The puzzle is that the writings in the book(s) get turned into doctrines and rules and so become a religion - which although purporting to unite, actually divide people and cause much trouble for the world. When we see this we begin to see the bigger picture that religion is a con - a conspiracy against humanity.

A very young child can have a concept of God without the doctrines and rules of a religion. It is in fact the doctrines and rules that make a religion.

So what does religion tell us? Amongst many other things, religion tells us that we were 'born in sin' and/or that we are naturally inclined towards doing evil; that's what the doctrines tell us from the main Holy books. However, as can be seen by history, religious people have created untold hate and violence towards humanity (and even animals). Religion makes people self-righteous bigots and religion gives the impression that they are chosen by God and therefore they think they are 'better' than people of other religions, or non.

Religion says that the devil tempts us to do wrong, when in actual fact it is religion that has successfully caused people to do much wrong and not have compassion for other people! Ah, but, religious people are telling us that their 'perfect' god created us all! Blind fools is what religious people are and I don't hesitate to tell you that your god is not the God of all.


So I dream of the day when the 'Holy' books are put in a glass case in a museum protected by Lazers and all other 'Holy' books have been burned as relics of the past.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okd3hLlvvLwwww.youtube.com/watch?v=okd3hLlvvLw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okd3hLlvvLw)
(John Lennon was onto something, hence he was murdered)


On the glass case in a museum it is written:

These are the books that people lived for and have been killed for


Underneath those words, would be a summery of all the wars and dreadful atrocities committed and 'justified' in the name of religion.

Please people, give it up.

There are two sides to the universe, that which joins and creates and that which divides and destroys... Religion divides - so which do you chose?

http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=1038172125692
http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Arrivals/40497487822?v=app_2392950137&viewas=0#/video/video.php?v=1038175565778

[adbasque]

John Lennon, Mr TJOHN

Do you know his background before quoting his song?

Let me give you a quick round up about JL

He was an Orphan when he was about 17, when his mother died his world started to fall apart, his father left him after he chose to stay with his ant.
She took good care of him and raised him as her son, she did everything for him.

When his ant died he really lost the plot, anyway, when he met Yoko Ono he was looking for that mother figure he never really had as a child, and that witch took advantage of his weakness and vulnerability.

She was a well know Satanist, three times he tried to return to Christianity she pulled him back, she had a huge influence on him.

JL was a good deluded man, in the hands of a Satanist Yoko, just before he died he tried again to become a Christian, because deep down he had a strong belief in God.

She knew he loved her and she took real advantage of him, we know she uses black magic, and all of her Satanic rituals, so the man you're quoting isn't reliable.

Don't get me wrong, I always loved the Beatles and I will always love them, to me as a Musician myself, They have changed the face of the pop music and rock n roll combined.

Nothing like that existed before the Beatles I am not talking as a fan, I am a fan of nobody, but give credit where it's due.
I have probably sang their songs more than they did.
John Lennon was a genuine warm angry person, angry about the establishment, the Elite etc.. but like most people they always get one bit of it wrong.

He genuinly wanted peace but Yoko was a racist hateful person, she claims to be nice and love people, but she divided the Beatles way before Linda and the other women got involved, she pulled Lennon away from his brothers.

Because the other three were his only family, and she couldn't stand it.

Now quoting that song he was just as deluded as you are today John :)

[adbasque]

We are all part of God and the bible says that Jesus was a man. Not an ordinary man but a man nevertheless. He (if we are to believe the bible) was the "son of man" as well as the "son of God." Well, thinking about it, we all are.

Peace!

John

On this one yes I agree, Jesus (PBUH) was a man not any ordinary man, he is not the son of God, he is not God, he is a prophet, note I haven't used was I used IS, because he is the only Prophet who hasn't died, he will return eventually and then he will live, restore peace, and order on earth he will marry eventually, will die like most of other humans.

That is God's will, His mission is to return kill the Dajal also known as the Anti-Christ, only him can kill him, he has powers that God (Allah) has given him.

A Man with flesh and blood cannot be a God, God won't come down to earth he is far too greater for that, God is God full stop.

He states that he is closer to us than our Jugular vein, people might conceive it as strange, but the truth is, this isn't our true nature, which means Allah is a lot closer than we think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfT9IhLXJKI"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfT9IhLXJKI

Watch this part of the video try and watch all of it :)

[tjohn]

On this one yes I agree, Jesus (PBUH) was a man not any ordinary man, he is not the son of God, he is not God, he is a prophet, note I haven't used was I used IS, because he is the only Prophet who hasn't died, he will return eventually and then he will live, restore peace, and order on earth he will marry eventually, will die like most of other humans.

That is God's will, His mission is to return kill the Dajal also known as the Anti-Christ, only him can kill him, he has powers that God (Allah) has given him.

A Man with flesh and blood cannot be a God, God won't come down to earth he is far too greater for that, God is God full stop.

He states that he is closer to us than our Jugular vein, people might conceive it as strange, but the truth is, this isn't our true nature, which means Allah is a lot closer than we think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfT9IhLXJKI"]Watch this part of the video try and watch all of it :)Everything that exists is of the Universe and even the Sun is a 'son' of God (and stars are being 'born' all the time). Big clues there and much of the bible is metaphor.

We are all part of the same and only in that sense is any creature (human or otherwise), the God of all. Then nowhere does the Bible say that Jesus was God, it says he was "son of man" and "son of God" and "a man".


Conflict comes when people take it literally yet at the same time, each believing what is being taught through their Religion and for that reason, I say we would be better off without the 'holy' Books.

Religious people are too stupid to think beyond their Religion and they follow like sheep - in the case of Christianity, they think they are following "the good shepherd" but they are following a deceptive interpretation; with its rules and doctrines that define a Religion or sect. Even the religious teachers are blind and the blind are following the blind.

[tannah]

Everything that exists is of the Universe and even the Sun is a 'son' of God (and stars are being 'born' all the time). Big clues there and much of the bible is metaphor.

We are all part of the same and only in that sense is any creature (human or otherwise), the God of all. Then nowhere does the Bible say that Jesus was God, it says he was "son of man" and "son of God" and "a man".


Conflict comes when people take it literally yet at the same time, each believing what is being taught through their Religion and for that reason, I say we would be better off without the 'holy' Books.

Religious people are too stupid to think beyond their Religion and they follow like sheep - in the case of Christianity, they think they are following "the good shepherd" but they are following a deceptive interpretation; with its rules and doctrines that define a Religion or sect. Even the religious teachers are blind and the blind are following the blind.

You tell it as it is tjohn. As you can see most "religious" people practice the very thing Jesus couldn't stand, the shutting of the door to heaven within, and then also attempting to stop others going through. And I am quite clear why that kind of thing is done. It's to hang on to some attachment, an aspect of self they won't give up and leave at the door. Ultimately the most dangerous one is the religion they think they practice.

I would say that I am a little shocked that people scoff the idea of oneness in spirit. Especially since these people see themselves as the cream of the crop when it comes to their God. So even here we see pride, not humility.

These religious nuts would kill for their God. I would challenge that God. At the expense of my soul? What would my soul gain from living with a God I couldn't respect?

And so, as always, the self appointed elect reject truth and spirit, and it is given to the "outsiders" to come into the feast first instead.