Conversation Between Me and Disorder2k8

[biblegirl]

Physical vs. spritual solutions to combat the NWO: there seems to be a conflict on what solution is appropriate. Here is a conversation between me and disorder2k8. It is a messenger conversation so you will have to keep up a bit on fragments and cut off sentences, you know how it goes :p. Your comments on this conversation are welcome :). It would be fun to see more conversations from forum members posted :D.

This conversation was in response to disorder2k8 asking me what I thought of his new article: http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77683

Biblegirl: well you gave a couple of suggestions
Disorder2k8: i am too much a perfectionist
Biblegirl: maybe more suggestions of what you have in mind for the revolution
Disorder2k8: when I make suggestions like that I start making myself to be a leader and can be targeted
Disorder2k8: as an instigator of unrest
Biblegirl: are you serious?
Disorder2k8: yes, i have to be careful with words, they have to be just planting seeds of change, not axes chopping down the branches
Disorder2k8: i can keep to simple ideas, councils
Disorder2k8: voluntary service by politicians instead of paid
Disorder2k8: but once i start moving to radical/violence territory i have to be careful
Disorder2k8: the nature of rebellion
Biblegirl: the thing is, most of the people on this forum are not interested in councils and leaders and stuff
Disorder2k8: then how to they expect to be saved
Biblegirl: they're trying to get away from government and stuff
Disorder2k8: no.. government is needed
Biblegirl: not create a new one
Disorder2k8: it just has to be owned and operated by the people, like it should be
Disorder2k8: not selfish elites
Disorder2k8: the whole people should govern themselves and you do need a basic set of rules or else the strong will pray on the weak, and thats already happening
Disorder2k8: the system is the way it is now, because of the free-form/ capitism idea
Disorder2k8: it has allowed people to buy everything up
Disorder2k8: my only main idea would be get rid of profit based politcs, the leaders would have to volunteer
Disorder2k8: bringing the armies and other forces home would be a good start too
Biblegirl: you mean stop having wars? he he
Disorder2k8: no, keep the force at home for defense. not disband them totally
Disorder2k8: ie stop interfering
Biblegirl: well, the thing is you are dealing with people who have a much different perspective
Disorder2k8: there are some things we still need to be effective, and some things we need to do differently
Biblegirl: like you're coming from the angle that it's people and government and oil companies who are the bad guys, so a people problem
Biblegirl: but if you see it at the esoteric angle
Disorder2k8: perspectives are fine, they need to practical application to reality
Biblegirl: all of that stuff is kind of moot
Disorder2k8: all the esoteric stuff is moot, because the percentage of the population that are living in the real world, instead of some fantasy concepts of meaningness and spirituality which are both gone
Disorder2k8: to tell people about the esoteric things, you need to take the reigns in the real world and lead them there
Disorder2k8: like a horse with blinkers on
Disorder2k8: people dont have any spirituality left, you need to appeal to reason and logic
Disorder2k8: part of the digital age
Biblegirl: well being on a david icke forum, the majority of the people are interested in the esoteric solutions
Disorder2k8: that is the small percentage
Biblegirl: because according to him the problem is dimensional
Disorder2k8: I factor in the whole
Biblegirl: rituals and stuff
Disorder2k8: that is unproven
Disorder2k8: you cant believe everything says outright.. even me !
Disorder2k8: you need to prove it over and over again
Disorder2k8: but in the real world, that doesnt apply, maybe to the small 1% that has awoken
Biblegirl: i've read a million accounts on this, icke didn't invent the reptilians
Biblegirl: you should hear the african missionaries stories
Disorder2k8: still after waking, you need to make the breakfast and get on with the day
Biblegirl: what i'm saying is that the people you are trying to appeal to, the esoteric solution is the ONLY thing that applies as far as they're concerned
Disorder2k8: hmm, well ive heard a lot of this and that
Biblegirl: because the struggle is more supernatural then physical
Disorder2k8: then thats why I feel the forum will get nowhere
Biblegirl: he he i know you do
Disorder2k8: the struggle is both at the same time
Disorder2k8: but you cant just sit around thinking about what will happen, you have to shape the reality you want
Biblegirl: i think the freeman on the land stuff is great, but people need to know it in their hearts that they are soveriegn free people, not wait for paperwork saying they are
Disorder2k8: there was a joke in family guy that made me understand
Biblegirl: it puts an eerie trust in the queen he he
Biblegirl: but ah well
Biblegirl: it's still a solution of sorts'
Biblegirl: family guy is funny
Disorder2k8: the main char made a comment about having an ancestor who was a philosopher
Disorder2k8: and the flask back showed his ancestor sitting on a chair, the wife of his ancestor says "why dont you get a job today" and he just says "why?" in a long drawn out phisophical way, as if questioning why he should get a job
Disorder2k8: and that is what the truth movement is to me
Disorder2k8: a bunch of questioner and fantastists and pipe-dreamers
Disorder2k8: a solution needs to be in the physical more than the emotional or esoteric
Biblegirl: like i said there are two main groups: you can appeal to the ones who think the problem is on the surface- that's where leaflets and videos and stuff can come in
Disorder2k8: yea
this argument should be added to the post
Disorder2k8: its a good one
Biblegirl: lol go ahead
Disorder2k8: i mean that in true argument sense, not conflict
Disorder2k8: you know.. if there was a character I would be on the xfiles it would be scully, and i think you would be mulder.. ... i know role reversal
Biblegirl: totally!
Disorder2k8: it sums us up quite well, the hoper and dreamer vs the realist
Biblegirl: but mulder watched his sister abducted by aliens with his own eyes
Biblegirl: scully didn't see jack
Biblegirl: paranormal-wise
Disorder2k8: perhaps we need both of our types in the new caste system, the thinkers and fighers (by the way I made a post months ago about those caste types appearing in mankind its funny how they are starting to materialise)
Disorder2k8: have you seen the south partk episode 'Little Bit Country'
Biblegirl: lol no i've seen very little of south park
Disorder2k8: its about invasion of iraq, and how we will both always need the 2 dualities of tree-hugging hippies who seem like caring individuals on one side, and gung-ho activists and fighters on the other side to show people not to mess with us. we need both
Biblegirl: hey i'm fighting in my own way!
Disorder2k8: you make me seem caring
I make you seem hard and well protected
Disorder2k8: its a funny episode
Biblegirl: okay...the tree huggers believe they are doing something that counts, they have their own solution that they believe in, and they look at the physical solution and see little value
Biblegirl: the "realists" believe they are doing something that counts and have their own solutions, but they look at the esoteric solutions and see little value

...

Disorder2k8: and yes you are right, I am in the 'practical solutions now' group and i get very frustrated over lack of action, i think i need to join wearechange or something
Disorder2k8: or just start my own new one
Disorder2k8: Kapow resurrected!
Biblegirl: there you go!
Biblegirl: do you know anything about the Whole Truth Coalition?
Biblegirl: the infinite one is a part of that
Biblegirl: they hand out leaflets and do conferences and stuff
Biblegirl: hey what might be nice to add to your thread are things that people are doing
Biblegirl: like t-shirts and there was a new thread on stampers
Biblegirl: people stamp on money or whatever
Biblegirl: i want one of those true world order t-shirts i think those are awesome
Biblegirl: http://davidicke.com/forum/showthrea...ght=true+world
Disorder2k8: you are into crafts, you should just make one
Disorder2k8: that is more practical i think
Disorder2k8: i have loads of quotes that can go on shirts
Disorder2k8: that i made up
Biblegirl: what is more practical?
Disorder2k8: "there is the sword, the pen, and there is the truth, the mightiest weapon of all"
Disorder2k8: making shirts to evolve the truthmovement
Disorder2k8: because that has a physical effect
Biblegirl: i think they're nice
Biblegirl: i think i want a white hoodie with that



Hope this was interesting to everyone. Let us know what you think :D.

[les_paul_robot]

Sigh
To be truly free
there needs to be
NO CONCEPT OF OWNERSHIP.

Do you understand?

Pyramid-free, hierarchy-free living.
Quite how to get there is another story. A Luciferhorus-suggested culling is an extreme way, and not necessarily the only, or best, way.

[disorder2k8]

Pyramid-free, hierarchy-free living.
Quite how to get there is another story.

I need not answer that then. You have no idea how to make your 'ideal' work, let us concentrate on something we can see visible results from shall we?

Hybrid ideas and concepts are fine, new paradigms and other important sounding buzzwords that make me look intelligent.

[torus]

go for a blue hoodie instead

[biblegirl]

go for a blue hoodie instead

yeah that'll show em! :D

[Ian2day]

Sigh
To be truly free
there needs to be
NO CONCEPT OF OWNERSHIP.

Do you understand?

Pyramid-free, hierarchy-free living.
Quite how to get there is another story. A Luciferhorus-suggested culling is an extreme way, and not necessarily the only, or best, way.

Others always seem to project their own value system onto the posts I make. They read the words and then for wahtever reason. They make the conclusion of how if it was them making my posts it would be about meeting the needs of their ego. That somehow I am intent on gratification or addulation or something. When in actual fact it is the very things I detest.

However, getting back onto the main gist of the thread. I would say that people need to see things from anothers perspective to be able to understand each other better. However, most people cant get past their own ego. They really cant. Their ego demands to be famous or rich or in control of everythign. So they transfer their own system onto others. they project what they themself want onto the attention that others have obtained. Rationalisng that the motives of others is all about satisfaction of the ego. When it may be anything but that which they seek.

[biblegirl]

Reading back over the conversation, I'm wondering if I was wrong and the majority of the people here are not interested in the esoteric. I wonder what sort of ratio we have here, of realists vs. hippies as the conversation so eloquently put it :p.

[loderlive]

Reading back over the conversation, I'm wondering if I was wrong and the majority of the people here are not interested in the esoteric. I wonder what sort of ratio we have here, of realists vs. hippies as the conversation so eloquently put it :p.

Bible you put across the point of an esoteric perspective beautifully.

[size_of_light]

Reading back over the conversation, I'm wondering if I was wrong and the majority of the people here are not interested in the esoteric. I wonder what sort of ratio we have here, of realists vs. hippies as the conversation so eloquently put it :p.

Interesting conversation you had there.

I think the best approach is for each person to get their own mind, body and spirit right as the urgent, number one priority.

Developing and cultivating a good and pure motivation inside ourselves is the heart of spiritual health and the key to salvation for us and the world.

If we make a real effort to tune into our own basic being and begin operating from a state of peak condition like that, it will start to resonate with the people around us and inspire them to do the same.

The more people who come into a state of deep wellness within their whole being, the more the real solutions to all these problems will start to naturally manifest themselves and flow out through us into the world.

And if it still all goes to hell, then it wont matter so much anyway, because we will have accomplished the most important task there is in life: to come to know ourselves and understand who we really are.

We're free no matter what, and this world and all it's dramas are just an illusion on the deepest level, so we should all work on realising that within ourselves in a profound and authentic way, and then carry on working towards a better world with a sense of warmth, humour, and lightness in our hearts, knowing that one way or another, death is inevitable, and that the only thing that truly matters when that moment comes is our state of mind, and how we've chosen to live our lives.

[cruise4]

Has Science Failed Us ?

Chaitin's work focuses on the problems of mathematical "truth" as a convenient fiction. There are infinitely many possible mathematical facts, but, according to Chaitin, the underlying relationships among them are impossible to establish. This isn't good news for anyone interested in a "theory of everything," since, if the foundation is built on cottage cheese, the tower is going to be a bit tippy at best. Even worse, Chaitin's results demonstrate that not only is there no structure to the foundation of mathematics, the foundation is in fact random. Bad news, reductionists!

http://www.vedicsciences.net/articles/failure-of-science.html

Sums up what I think and to be logical, alternatives need checking out before dismissal. Investigation before Condemnation. Materialism has a whole load of problems.

[les_paul_robot]

Sorry,
I was quite drunk and mildly outraged with myself and the world when I made that post. Judging by Ian2day's reply, so was he :confused:
:D

I'm not liking the realists v. hippies slant on things. There's enough polarity in this world as it is.
'Biblegirl'... that name sounds like a comic hero character with a big B on their costume who flies to 'rescue' people from a life of never having read those scriptures. That would have me quaking in my boots!

[relax]

Seemed a pointless debate to me, disorder creating seperation with his BLACK/WHITE concept when referring to peoples way of thinking. He/she is regarding esoteric/spiritual as something that the mainstream population is nowhere near but its easier to integrate then has been said. And is already to a mild extent but is gaining momentum day by day, 1 example things like acupunture for physical and the whole positive thinking (consciousness creates reality) movement in all its guises for mental.

One of the things that resonated with me in a 2012 video I watched recently is that the future is defined by our consciousness, ie think positive, go with your intuition more and encourage syncronicities, this will have an effect on the people around you, and instead of encouraging the physically rooted masses, let them follow, let them be inspired by your attitude and the vibe you give off. The more people doing that I believe the better, stick to your esoteric/spiritual beliefs and build on them with greater understanding, but without pushing them on people, only use suggestions and rational thinking (becuase thats what people listen to) when talking about anything of that area.
Contrary to the mainstream belief that anything not physical and detectable using man made equipment is not rational, it is as rational or much more so than any system that they and disorder2k8 cling to so dearly. The detector isnt in phsyical science but the thing you've been living in you're entire life - your body, start putting trust in that and utilising it towards its full potential and experience the difference, you may not be able to rationalize it using the systems people are obsessed with sticking to but it is rational never the less as the practices and this whole area of life hasnt been with the worlds cultures since the start of time for no reason and has a massive phsyical effect on millions of people currently.

All these things that people appear baffled towards that they should know and some people DO know, im talking about things that give people a shake or are so in peoples faces that its undeniable of their existence, eg the pyramids, ufo phenomena including abductions, crop circles, what mainstream scientists call dark matter & dark energy, the fact that that makes up so much of the universe, the fact that we only know what 86% or so of what our DNA is used for.

Wake up and look at these areas of knowledge and see if they can explain the world you live in better becuase thats what matters right? Dont just follow the rest even if the rest is 90+% of the worlds population does so, take a step back and look at how anything that challenges the system (alt knowledge) is feared/ridiculed. Pretty primitive no? Time to evolve methinks.

Kind of a hypocritical post re; what I said earlier about not encouraging people, it wasnt my intention but is just a quick vent of the energy I have about this subject, and is what will turn people towards it, people that have this awareness appear to be more alive, positive, vibrant, magnetic people, which is what will turn masses which are zombies in comparison towards them.

[relax]

I'm not liking the realists v. hippies slant on things. There's enough polarity in this world as it is.

Quoting for truth.

[disorder2k8]

Seemed a pointless debate to me, disorder creating seperation with his BLACK/WHITE concept when referring to peoples way of thinking. He/she is regarding esoteric/spiritual as something that the mainstream population is nowhere near but its easier to integrate then has been said. And is already to a mild extent but is gaining momentum day by day, 1 example things like acupunture for physical and the whole positive thinking (consciousness creates reality) movement in all its guises for mental.

One of the things that resonated with me in a 2012 video I watched recently is that the future is defined by our consciousness, ie think positive, go with your intuition more and encourage syncronicities, this will have an effect on the people around you, and instead of encouraging the physically rooted masses, let them follow, let them be inspired by your attitude and the vibe you give off. The more people doing that I believe the better, stick to your esoteric/spiritual beliefs and build on them with greater understanding, but without pushing them on people, only use suggestions and rational thinking (becuase thats what people listen to) when talking about anything of that area.
Contrary to the mainstream belief that anything not physical and detectable using man made equipment is not rational, it is as rational or much more so than any system that they and disorder2k8 cling to so dearly. The detector isnt in phsyical science but the thing you've been living in you're entire life - your body, start putting trust in that and utilising it towards its full potential and experience the difference, you may not be able to rationalize it using the systems people are obsessed with sticking to but it is rational never the less as the practices and this whole area of life hasnt been with the worlds cultures since the start of time for no reason and has a massive phsyical effect on millions of people currently.

All these things that people appear baffled towards that they should know and some people DO know, im talking about things that give people a shake or are so in peoples faces that its undeniable of their existence, eg the pyramids, ufo phenomena including abductions, crop circles, what mainstream scientists call dark matter & dark energy, the fact that that makes up so much of the universe, the fact that we only know what 86% or so of what our DNA is used for.

Wake up and look at these areas of knowledge and see if they can explain the world you live in better becuase thats what matters right? Dont just follow the rest even if the rest is 90+% of the worlds population does so, take a step back and look at how anything that challenges the system (alt knowledge) is feared/ridiculed. Pretty primitive no? Time to evolve methinks.

Kind of a hypocritical post re; what I said earlier about not encouraging people, it wasnt my intention but is just a quick vent of the energy I have about this subject, and is what will turn people towards it, people that have this awareness appear to be more alive, positive, vibrant, magnetic people, which is what will turn masses which are zombies in comparison towards them.

No debate is ever pointless if you learn from it.

P.s I am highly aware and awake thanks very much, Ive been here for nearly a year and I know whats going on and its not like I don't appreciate alternatives. I've been through Wilcock,Tsarion, Project Camelot, Icke, Greer, Bruce Lipton, Alex Jones, and all the usual conspiracy theories including aliens, esoteric ramblings and debates since before 2001

My point is that action is preferable to sitting around thinking about action, whenever possible.

[simplysimon]

Interesting convo!

You both have some very valid points.

My own take on societal resurrection is based loosely on Gandhi's famous quote "become the change you most want to see in the world". I feel quite strongly that this fits with both perspectives of the conversation.

My path has shown me that government requires imposition on freedoms so I can not agree with that as a principle. The esoteric knowledge is very important.

I feel that a massive change in our attitudes will have to occur to resolve the perspectives in this chat.

I have found that spiritually evolved people radiate their own energy around them and do not require leadership or governance, they intuitively know the difference between right and wrong. If we could create a system that promoted co-operation and equally involved everyone in society regardless of viewpoint, I feel we could lay the foundations down for something incredible.

[moondancer]

Reading back over the conversation, I'm wondering if I was wrong and the majority of the people here are not interested in the esoteric. I wonder what sort of ratio we have here, of realists vs. hippies as the conversation so eloquently put it :p.

I'm both.. and I think you need the balance of both :)

Interesting conversation you had there.

I think the best approach is for each person to get their own mind, body and spirit right as the urgent, number one priority.

Developing and cultivating a good and pure motivation inside ourselves is the heart of spiritual health and the key to salvation for us and the world.

If we make a real effort to tune into our own basic being and begin operating from a state of peak condition like that, it will start to resonate with the people around us and inspire them to do the same.

The more people who come into a state of deep wellness within their whole being, the more the real solutions to all these problems will start to naturally manifest themselves and flow out through us into the world.

And if it still all goes to hell, then it wont matter so much anyway, because we will have accomplished the most important task there is in life: to come to know ourselves and understand who we really are.

We're free no matter what, and this world and all it's dramas are just an illusion on the deepest level, so we should all work on realising that within ourselves in a profound and authentic way, and then carry on working towards a better world with a sense of warmth, humour, and lightness in our hearts, knowing that one way or another, death is inevitable, and that the only thing that truly matters when that moment comes is our state of mind, and how we've chosen to live our lives.

Ive been saying that in a number of my posts for a while.. just not that well written though :p

Interesting convo!

You both have some very valid points.

My own take on societal resurrection is based loosely on Gandhi's famous quote "become the change you most want to see in the world". I feel quite strongly that this fits with both perspectives of the conversation.

My path has shown me that government requires imposition on freedoms so I can not agree with that as a principle. The esoteric knowledge is very important.

I feel that a massive change in our attitudes will have to occur to resolve the perspectives in this chat.

I have found that spiritually evolved people radiate their own energy around them and do not require leadership or governance, they intuitively know the difference between right and wrong. If we could create a system that promoted co-operation and equally involved everyone in society regardless of viewpoint, I feel we could lay the foundations down for something incredible.

Yep, good post ss :)

[mellowfellow]

I think that solutions have to be spiritually motivated and guided, but what we largely experience is physical reality and so that's where action must be. This isn't to exclude the occultists or whatever you may call em, everyone counts and should work in HARMONY employing whatever capacities they may have.

[veritasvoice]

Sigh
To be truly free
there needs to be
NO CONCEPT OF OWNERSHIP.

Do you understand?

Pyramid-free, hierarchy-free living.
Quite how to get there is another story. A Luciferhorus-suggested culling is an extreme way, and not necessarily the only, or best, way.

So you don't own your own body?

And I can come in "your" house and take "your" possessions any time I like, yes?

The ONLY people that gain anything from removing the rights of ownership are the ELITES (and their cronies), who inevitably have the greatest power to take away people's property through a monopoly of violent force, or they work to violate principles of self-ownership by, for example, creating programs of mandatory vaccination. When you're talking about destroying ownership, you're talking about destruction of individual sovereignty, along with individual rights. Which is EXACTLY what the NWO wants in the long run.

[les_paul_robot]

So you don't own your own body?

And I can come in "your" house and take "your" possessions any time I like, yes?

The ONLY people that gain anything from removing the rights of ownership are the ELITES (and their cronies), who inevitably have the greatest power to take away people's property through a monopoly of violent force, or they work to violate principles of self-ownership by, for example, creating programs of mandatory vaccination. When you're talking about destroying ownership, you're talking about destruction of individual sovereignty, along with individual rights. Which is EXACTLY what the NWO wants in the long run.I meant 'no concept of ownership amongst anyone' or something.
Try and picture what John Lennon sang about in Imagine.
I would welcome you into the home I happened to be inhabiting, for you are a brother and 'my' home is 'your' home and vice versa and same for everyone.
I could be anywhere on the earth and enter any front door and say 'Hello! What's for dinner?!" and they would welcome me in.
'Your' body is 'my' body so why would I do anything to violate it?
This is hard to imagine because you can't seem to imagine a world without the concept of ownership.
No ownership and following the universal law. That is the only way to achieve perfect harmony*.

*In Les Paul Robot's very own opinion, © 2009, gerroff it's all my mine grrrrr

[metacomet]

I'm not liking the realists v. hippies slant on things. There's enough polarity in this world as it is.

I feel the same way.

Although disorder seems to believe people into the esoteric are worthless - I find that the only real change possible in this age is in the consciousness of others.

I have said before that political change is over. It gets us nowhere. The idea of revolution and 'taking action' is fine... but it's not practical and it's not going to happen on any meaningful scale.

The real change is going on in the consciousness of people. Awareness by itself is enough to propagate change on this planet.

If people are making any effort to raise the awareness of others, they are already doing more than the average person.

I am sure that joining political movements, websites and making political activist statements with t-shirts does something... but people are burnt out on political action. They want spiritual change, and that is why the majority of 'truthers' are now into the matrix of reality and other transcendental topics.

It's called evolution and it's healthy.

[kappy0405]

I agree that spiritual truths are ultimately the single most important.. For now, that should be done at an individual level.. but as far as stopping the NWO, I agree with disorder, we need to focus on spreading knowledge of the 5 sense conspiracy to the masses as most people still have no idea whats going on. Their discovering of spiritual truths will come with time.

[metacomet]

I agree that spiritual truths are ultimately the single most important.. For now, that should be done at an individual level.. but as far as stopping the NWO, I agree with disorder, we need to focus on spreading knowledge of the 5 sense conspiracy to the masses as most people still have no idea whats going on. Their discovering of spiritual truths will come with time.

Disorder thought it would be a good idea to join 'wearechange'...

and to print t-shirts with random political quotes.

I don't see how any of that is exposing 5 sense conspiracy.

Spiritual knowledge is the only thingthat can free a person from 5 sense reality. Political activism has no place in that arena.

Neither do wannabe political activists.

[kappy0405]

Disorder thought it would be a good idea to join 'wearechange'...

and to print t-shirts with random political quotes.

I don't see how any of that is exposing 5 sense conspiracy.

Spiritual knowledge is the only thingthat can free a person from 5 sense reality. Political activism has no place in that arena.

Neither do wannabe political activists.

I think it would be a great idea to join wearechange. Those guys are out on the street in large groups 3-4 times a month at political events/rallies/speeches in almost every major city. I don't agree with everything they stand for, but they ARE reaching a lot of people. I don't think classifying them as 'wannabe political activists' is really justified tbh. They are making a big impact, particularly with the youth of the world and that will pay off hugely in the coming years.

That said, most people in the world will shun at any talk of the spiritual. I agree that spiritual truth is what will make the world a better place in the end, but how do we get people to realize spiritual truth when they don't even understand the truth in their little 5 sense box? Only after someone realizes that there IS a conspiracy will they start to examine how big the conspiracy really is. In all honesty, my path towards 'enlightenment' (for lack of better word) started with political truth. Researching politics introduced me to under the table lobbying introduced me to the Illuminati introduced me to the religious con introduced me to infinite conciousness. I firmly agree that spiritual truth is what matters in the end, but people won't grasp that concept from the get-go, imo.

[supertzar]

Disorder thought it would be a good idea to join 'wearechange'...

and to print t-shirts with random political quotes.

I don't see how any of that is exposing 5 sense conspiracy.

Spiritual knowledge is the only thingthat can free a person from 5 sense reality. Political activism has no place in that arena.

Neither do wannabe political activists.

Do you have to consciously pursue spiritual knowledge to gain it or can you gain it by doing any activity? Could someone have a spontaneous and lasting experience of spiritual enlightenment just by walking down the street?

[relax]

Do you have to consciously pursue spiritual knowledge to gain it or can you gain it by doing any activity? Could someone have a spontaneous and lasting experience of spiritual enlightenment just by walking down the street?

Its not really a conscious pursuit for me as it doesn't take any effort, its what interests me more than anything. But no I dont think enlightenment may be reached by walking down the street but things could happen or be observed that maybe push you towards that path, eg syncronicities.

[veritasvoice]

Try and picture what John Lennon sang about in Imagine.
I would welcome you into the home I happened to be inhabiting, for you are a brother and 'my' home is 'your' home and vice versa and same for everyone.
I could be anywhere on the earth and enter any front door and say 'Hello! What's for dinner?!" and they would welcome me in.
'Your' body is 'my' body so why would I do anything to violate it?
This is hard to imagine because you can't seem to imagine a world without the concept of ownership.


I can imagine a world without the concept of ownership - that's the world that the NWO wants to establish in order to strip us of every last right we have.

What you are missing is the house in your example doesn't just spring from nowhere.

For example, let's take an ideal society where we don't have to work our arses off to buy a house, pay a mortgage, etc. Let's say that I choose to build my house instead using my own skill. I find a nice spot, I gather the resources and the tools I need, and I work hard to put it all together. Am I just "inhabiting" that home from that point on, or do I own it? Does my mental and physical effort and my investment of time have inherent value? (and I'm not talking monetary value here)

Most importantly, I would say I have the absolute right to exclude anyone from this property that I wish. True, if you've never done anything to me, I will be the hospitable host til the cows come home...but if you're out to harm me or my family, I want to be able to say: you are not welcome here.

Also, your ideal world starts with the concept of universal respect; what happens when someone comes along who doesn't respect your chosen lifestyle?

More importantly, what happens when a group of people with a greater capacity to dispense force (such as a government) comes along that doesn't respect your chosen lifestyle, and wants to displace you from the home you are inhabiting?

In fact, I'm willing to bet that the modern concept of private property evolved out of a need to defend someone's belongings from the state; not out of selfishness or greed.

Or in the case of our current emergent surveillance state, what if that group wants to observe you 24/7? Without the concept of private property, privacy doesn't exist either.

[supertzar]

Its not really a conscious pursuit for me as it doesn't take any effort, its what interests me more than anything. But no I dont think enlightenment may be reached by walking down the street but things could happen or be observed that maybe push you towards that path, eg syncronicities.

Why can't we just have it instantly by changing our mind? Ever read The Lazy Man's Guide to Enlightenment? It's pretty good.