Freedom for Afganistan??!!

[texdallas]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/aug/14/afghanistan-womens-rights-rape

Afghanistan has quietly passed a law permitting Shia men to deny their wives food and sustenance if they refuse to obey their husbands' sexual demands, despite international outrage over an earlier version of the legislation which President Hamid Karzai had promised to review.

The new final draft of the legislation also grants guardianship of children exclusively to their fathers and grandfathers, and requires women to get permission from their husbands to work.

"It also effectively allows a rapist to avoid prosecution by paying 'blood money' to a girl who was injured when he raped her," the US charity Human Rights Watch said.

In early April, Barack Obama and Gordon Brown joined an international chorus of condemnation when the Guardian revealed that the earlier version of the law legalised rape within marriage, according to the UN.

Although Karzai appeared to back down, activists say the revised version of the law still contains repressive measures and contradicts the Afghan constitution and international treaties signed by the country.

Islamic law experts and human rights activists say that although the language of the original law has been changed, many of the provisions that alarmed women's rights groups remain, including this one: "Tamkeen is the readiness of the wife to submit to her husband's reasonable sexual enjoyment, and her prohibition from going out of the house, except in extreme circumstances, without her husband's permission. If any of the above provisions are not followed by the wife she is considered disobedient."

The law has been backed by the hardline Shia cleric Ayatollah Mohseni, who is thought to have influence over the voting intentions of some of the country's Shias, which make up around 20% of the population. Karzai has assiduously courted such minority leaders in the run up to next Thursday's election, which is likely to be a close run thing, according to a poll released yesterday.

Human Rights Watch, which has obtained a copy of the final law, called on all candidates to pledge to repeal the law, which it says contradicts Afghanistan's own constitution.

The group said that Karzai had "made an unthinkable deal to sell Afghan women out in the support of fundamentalists in the August 20 election".

Brad Adams, the organisation's Asia director, said: "The rights of Afghan women are being ripped up by powerful men who are using women as pawns in manoeuvres to gain power.

"These kinds of barbaric laws were supposed to have been relegated to the past with the overthrow of the Taliban in 2001, yet Karzai has revived them and given them his official stamp of approval."

The latest opinion poll by US democracy group the International Republican Institute showed that although Karzai was up 13 points to 44% since the last survey in May, his closest rival, Abdullah Abdullah, had soared from 7% to 26%.

If those numbers prove accurate, it would mean the contest would have to go to a second round run-off vote in early October. In that scenario, 50% of voters said they would vote for Karzai and 29% for Abdullah.

The survey was conducted in mid to late July, so it is not known whether Abdullah has made further gains on Karzai.

He could further increase his chance of victory by joining forces with Ashraf Ghani, the former finance minister who is also running on a platform fiercely critical of Karzai.

Fifty-eight per cent of the 2,400 people polled by IRI said they would like to see an alliance between Abdullah and Ghani, who is polling in fourth place.

[yozhik]

Afghanistan has quietly passed a law permitting Shia men to deny their wives food and sustenance if they refuse to obey their husbands' sexual demands, despite international outrage over an earlier version of the legislation which President Hamid Karzai had promised to review.

The US has passed laws permitting the military to deny basic human rights to prisoners, has abolished habeus corpus, declared the Geneva Convention does not apply within the borders of the US, has eroded freedom of speech, the right to bare arms and denied individuals the right to travel freely by the creation of non-disclosed, non-reviewable "no fly" lists. Despite global outrage, President Obama despite promising "Change we can believe in", including reviewing such policies, has continued these universally rejected policies while also extending the scope of others.



Yep ... its very easy to write that kind of sensationalist propaganda.
What next?

:)

[texdallas]

All true however the treatment of women is equally as important to all the above

[yozhik]

All true however the treatment of women is equally as important to all the above

Well it certainly has all of the right "hot buttons" to stir up some hate posts, thats for sure!

Sharia law, alleged botched elections, Afghanistan, gender inequality ... "those damn Muslims" ...

Wonder why no-one took the bait?
:rolleyes:

[texdallas]

you think im pushing an agenda? you think I dont know whats going on?

[yozhik]

you think im pushing an agenda? you think I dont know whats going on?

Not my questions to answer - they're yours ... I'm merely pointing out that the original post/article is seeded with all of the "hot buttons" to incite.

It's not journalism; its not even good reporting.
It's essentially a media echelon machine, with all the required buzz words to spark a little "hate" in the readers.

Same ol', same ol'.
Jeeeeeeeez ... that record is really getting tired ... can't they come up with a new tune?

[texdallas]

ir come from the main stream news. would like to think anybody reading it here would see that. regardless you can add it to your list of charges against a puppet government

[yozhik]

ir come from the main stream news. would like to think anybody reading it here would see that. regardless you can add it to your list of charges against a puppet government

Well its obviously written for a purpose.
Might I suggest that The Guardian is just that; the guardian of government policy.

Write a hate inciting, beat up, senstionalist piece of crap propaganda ... get the readers focused on those wicked evil Muslims and their horrid Sharia Law ... throw in some gender inequality, voting corruption, total lack of democracy, etc, etc ...

Meanwhile, now that all eyes are focused on another country of little relevance to the shithole you live in ... we'll bring in enforced vaccinations, steal your kids, and surrender our sovereignty to a fascist police EU state. But at least we have democracy!!!!!!!

(yawn)

There ya go Gordon ... job done ... propaganda has been seeded ... The Guardian comes to the rescue again ... the guardian of the policies ... as you were.

[mind1universe]

Yozhik glad you spotted it.:)


Yes this is what mainstream media does. Points at problems in other countries. "Oh look at that", bad people over there, dangerous people, terrorists over there around Bagdad.

Oh look some other bad guys in Iraq (stargate) (oil) (ancient moneuments) But it's the bad guys we are after? Same story in Afghanistan. The bad guy.


Not working. Anyway regardless of what truth is in that report. It is really foolish to jump on the bandwagon that the mainstream media are actually there to inform you, because that was never the case. It's a puppet machine for the globalists elites to suck you in.

[zarah]

I think the 'hate Islam' brigade are busy elsewhere ;p

You're right, of course, although I prefer The Guardian to most other msm.

[decode reality]

Yozhik glad you spotted it.:)


Yes this is what mainstream media does. Points at problems in other countries. "Oh look at that", bad people over there, dangerous people, terrorists over there around Bagdad.

Oh look some other bad guys in Iraq (stargate) (oil) (ancient moneuments) But it's the bad guys we are after? Same story in Afghanistan. The bad guy.


Not working. Anyway regardless of what truth is in that report. It is really foolish to jump on the bandwagon that the mainstream media are actually there to inform you, because that was never the case. It's a puppet machine for the globalists elites to suck you in.

I've jumped on that bandwagon from time to time.

In other words, it's wise to focus on the puppeteer rather than their unwitting puppets.

[ghostdogg]

smoke in da hole ... :mad: :mad: :mad:

[anyuser]

Kandahar: Afghanistan has quietly passed a law permitting Shia men to deny their wives food and sustenance if they refuse to obey their husbands’ sexual demands, despite international outrage over an earlier version of the legislation which President Hamid Karzai had promised to review.

The new final draft of the legislation also grants guardianship of children exclusively to their fathers and grandfathers, and requires women to get permission from their husbands to work.

“It also effectively allows a rapist to avoid prosecution by paying ‘blood money’ to a girl who was injured when he raped her,” said the U.S. charity Human Rights Watch.

In early April, U.S. President Barack Obama and British Prime Minister Gordon Brown joined an international chorus of condemnation when the Guardian revealed that the earlier version of the law legalised rape within marriage, according to the U.N.

cont: The Hindu: International:Wives in Afghanistan denied food for refusing sex (http://www.thehindu.com/2009/08/16/stories/2009081655361100.htm)

totally muckin futs

[Ian2day]

cont: The Hindu: International:Wives in Afghanistan denied food for refusing sex (http://www.thehindu.com/2009/08/16/stories/2009081655361100.htm)


Kandahar: Afghanistan has quietly passed a law permitting Shia men to deny their wives food and sustenance if they refuse to obey their husbands’ sexual demands, despite international outrage over an earlier version of the legislation which President Hamid Karzai had promised to review.

The new final draft of the legislation also grants guardianship of children exclusively to their fathers and grandfathers, and requires women to get permission from their husbands to work.

“It also effectively allows a rapist to avoid prosecution by paying ‘blood money’ to a girl who was injured when he raped her,” said the U.S. charity Human Rights Watch.

In early April, U.S. President Barack Obama and British Prime Minister Gordon Brown joined an international chorus of condemnation when the Guardian revealed that the earlier version of the law legalised rape within marriage, according to the U.N.


totally muckin futs

Religion serving so and so's

[decim]

Maybe this story is made up.

Religion serving so and so's

Quote:
Originally Posted by anyuser View Post
cont: The Hindu: International:Wives in Afghanistan denied food for refusing sex

Quote:
Kandahar: Afghanistan has quietly passed a law permitting Shia men to deny their wives food and sustenance if they refuse to obey their husbands’ sexual demands, despite international outrage over an earlier version of the legislation which President Hamid Karzai had promised to review.

The new final draft of the legislation also grants guardianship of children exclusively to their fathers and grandfathers, and requires women to get permission from their husbands to work.

“It also effectively allows a rapist to avoid prosecution by paying ‘blood money’ to a girl who was injured when he raped her,” said the U.S. charity Human Rights Watch.

In early April, U.S. President Barack Obama and British Prime Minister Gordon Brown joined an international chorus of condemnation when the Guardian revealed that the earlier version of the law legalised rape within marriage, according to the U.N.
totally muckin futs
Religion serving so and so's

[limelady]

Religion sanctioning man's inhumanity towards women. :(

[Ian2day]

Maybe this story is made up.

Of course you're correct. It could be as you say. However I stand by my reaction to the information that the post contained. It mentioned Shia men being allowed to deny food. So that would imply that the people concerned were exploiting a religious belief system for sexual ends.

[decim]

Hearts & minds, Hearts & minds, then the Soul.

[decode reality]

Maybe they were just being good Muslims during Ramadan 'i.e, they were denied sex after refusing food from their husbands during the day'- and the media got the two the wrong way 'round?

[yozhik]

Good to see the article is getting the emotional, programmed, intended responses :rolleyes:

Topic already posted here;
Mods: worthy of merging? (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77505)

[ghostdogg]

view my reaction beside ...de dogg is clear on this one ...

[yozhik]

Religion sanctioning man's inhumanity towards women. :(

Yeah.
All men should be castrated.
:rolleyes:


Problem ... Reaction ... Solution

[gilly]

I have merged the two threads.

I have to say I'm a bit unsure how to respond to the article, because it does look, as stated, like a further piece of propoganda designed to influence world opinion against the muslim community. But, even so, if this is genuinely happening - if the law has been passed, and some men are using it to their advantage, a disgusted reaction is still appropriate, whether it's deliberately manipulated or not.

[yozhik]

I have merged the two threads.

I have to say I'm a bit unsure how to respond to the article, because it does look, as stated, like a further piece of propoganda designed to influence world opinion against the muslim community. But, even so, if this is genuinely happening - if the law has been passed, and some men are using it to their advantage, a disgusted reaction is still appropriate, whether it's deliberately manipulated or not.

Too many ifs, buts and P-R-S hot buttons for my liking.

[flyermay]

I don't believe any news reports that come from Iran and Afghanistan, they are the target, and the MSM will make up anything and exagerate the rest just to turn the public against them and justify sending more troops and killing innocents (like they always did).

Worse attrocities (including children forced to prostitution) go on every day in front of those reporters in other parts of the world, but they have a special predilection for whatever country they are told to target.

[grachtengordel]

it does look, as stated, like a further piece of propoganda designed to influence world opinion against the muslim community. But, even so, if this is genuinely happening - if the law has been passed, and some men are using it to their advantage, a disgusted reaction is still appropriate, whether it's deliberately manipulated or not.

So if we react to this and our reaction has been manipulated, thats fine?

How about we act like the smug, obstinate members of this forum and demand proof?

Personally , I don't believe it, I think it is total lie, like the stories that 'taleban' were going round destroying musical instuments in 2001

[gilly]

So if we react to this and our reaction has been manipulated, thats fine?

How about we act like the smug, obstinate members of this forum and demand proof?

Personally , I don't believe it, I think it is total lie, like the stories that 'taleban' were going round destroying musical instuments in 2001

The alternative of recognising that something abhorrent's going on, but desensitising yourself to it because it's done for manipulation doesn't seem like an ideal solution though.

I hope you're right about it being a lie, and yes, you're right, proof is what's needed.

[grachtengordel]

Well its obviously written for a purpose.
Might I suggest that The Guardian is just that; the guardian of government policy.

yup

You're right, of course, although I prefer The Guardian to most other msm.

The guardian is slightly less annoying than the blatantly zionist 'the times' or other'news' papers, but its still propaganda. They do have the wonderful and very 'awake' Marina Hyde who is worth reading but they have 'gobal warming' stooge George monbiot (our micheal moore?) and a whole host of shills and professional liars

[grachtengordel]

The alternative of recognising that something abhorrent's going on, but desensitising yourself to it because it's done for manipulation doesn't seem like an ideal solution though.


I hear you, it's not ideal. But I view ANY stories that appear in our 'news' to be fake if they concern Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, Lebanon, anyone that the isn'treal zionists want to supress. Officialy, 'legally' , the u.k. is 'at war' in afganistan and iraq so the government has full legislated power to dictate/ censor and control the content of our 'news' for 'national security'.

A story about Afghanistan HAS to be fake if we are allowed to read it by the mainstream zionist press. We must accept that the 'taleban' do NOT exist. It is a term used by our media to group anyone who doesn't suck isntreal's c**k

[tb303]

The guardian is slightly less annoying than the blatantly zionist 'the times' or other'news' papers, but its still propaganda. They do have the wonderful and very 'awake' Marina Hyde who is worth reading but they have 'gobal warming' stooge George monbiot (our micheal moore?) and a whole host of shills and professional liars

There really is no use for newspapers from The Sun to The Guardian other than to wipe one's arse with.

At least The Daily Sport has material with which one can avail oneself of an honest wank.

[yozhik]

The guardian is slightly less annoying than the blatantly zionist 'the times' or other'news' papers, but its still propaganda. They do have the wonderful and very 'awake' Marina Hyde who is worth reading but they have 'gobal warming' stooge George monbiot (our micheal moore?) and a whole host of shills and professional liars

A "snapshot" of The Guardian ...

"the UK's most effective environment group..."

- The Guardian on describing "Friends of the Earth"

From the founder of Friends of the Earth;

"Childbearing [should be] a punishable crime against society, unless the parents hold a government license ... "
"All potential parents [should be] required to use contraceptive chemicals, the government issuing antidotes to citizens chosen for childbearing."
- David Brower, (first Executive Director of the Sierra Club; founder of Friends of the Earth; and founder of the Earth Island Institute - quoted by Dixie Lee Ray, Trashing the Planet, p.166)



That's the true nature of The Guardian.
:mad:

Spokespiece for the agenda.
The Guardian of the propaganda.

"The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than
he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to
truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors."
- Thomas Jefferson

"We are grateful to the Washington Post, The New York Times, Time
Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended
our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost forty
years... "It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for
the world if we had been subject to the bright lights of publicity during
those years. But the work is now much more sophisticated and prepared
to march towards a world government." "The supranational sovereignty
of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the
national auto determination practiced in past centuries."
- David Rockefeller, Trilateral Commission Founder 1991

[flyermay]

... We must accept that the 'taleban' do NOT exist. It is a term used by our media to group anyone who doesn't suck isntreal's c**k

lol

Simple 'terrorists' is the term used if they are not Muslims!!!

[branjo]

"Isntreal", lol I like that one :D

[decode reality]

My own personal hunch is that there are some appalling things going on- though I also agree that unfortunately it can be used as anti Islamic propoganda.

One way to find out the veracity of the story is to find out from the people themselves: Surely there must be some first hand testimonies from the women themselves about what's going on?

Pakistan of course comes up a lot, as regards the Taliban....

I was at a Muslim organised event last Friday, a fund raiser for the people of Swat Valley, Pakistan. A short video was played, in which Yvonne Ridley very briefly touched upon the negative influence of the Taliban over there. I'd be keen to here more of what she has to say also....

What about people who have family/contacts in Pakistan? They may be able to shed a bit of light.

[esowteric]

Outlandish Afghan law allowing husbands to starve their wives if they refuse their sexual demands slipped into effect on the quiet ... See the article (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/karzais-secret-uturn-on-afghan-rape-law-1772524.html) in The Independent.

[zarah]

Outlandish Afghan law allowing husbands to starve their wives if they refuse their sexual demands slipped into effect on the quiet ... See the article (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/karzais-secret-uturn-on-afghan-rape-law-1772524.html) in The Independent.

Until 1997, English law didn't recognise rape within marriage either.

My feeling is that Karzai does nothing without the consent of the US and the UK...great timing eh? He enacts legislation which contravenes human rights just when the public in the US and the UK are taking civic action relating to the reasons behind the invasion...

[rhydra]

So British, American and othe NATO soldiers are dying so that the Afghan male can have sex whether their wife/s wants it or not. :confused:

[gilly]

I've merged 3 threads on this same topic. :)

[branjo]

So the reasons they gave for getting rid of the Taliban were their inhumane treatment of not only their wives and women in general, but that they weren't very "west friendly", now there is a law which is obviously backed by the west to allow them to "democratically" do the same bloody thing.

But the Taliban did a bloody good job keeping the heroin trade at a minimum, and now its like the Walmart of the Heroin trade over there now.

Just like Vietnam war, its all about the control of the Opium trade, deaths are irrelevant to them. Democracy does it again eh?

[zarah]

So the reasons they gave for getting rid of the Taliban were their inhumane treatment of not only their wives and women in general, but that they weren't very "west friendly", now there is a law which is obviously backed by the west to allow them to "democratically" do the same bloody thing.

But the Taliban did a bloody good job keeping the heroin trade at a minimum, and now its like the Walmart of the Heroin trade over there now.

Just like Vietnam war, its all about the control of the Opium trade, deaths are irrelevant to them. Democracy does it again eh?

The opium trade, peak oil and getting ever closer to having Russia and China surrounded.