What's wrong with The Occult?

[mrerisian]

I've wondered for a while, what exactly is supposed to be wrong with The Occult. Is it simply that it's anti-Christian? I've been looking into it for about a year or so now and to me it just seems like a form of self help. I'm no expert though, unlike many people on here who have a profound dislike of it, so that's why I'm asking the question: what's wrong with the occult?

[freedomnonfighter]

It's how it is used, the nature of what is intended as a result.

[crimsonblade]

Ironically, if contemporary society suppressed Christian scriptures (hmm, I wonder why it doesn't?) then Christianity would be 'occult'.

[mrerisian]

So Occult does literally mean suppressed? If that's the case & it's the sort of thing the NWO don't want us to understand, surely we should be all over the MF?

[crimsonblade]

So Occult does literally mean suppressed? If that's the case & it's the sort of thing the NWO don't want us to understand, surely we should be all over the MF?

Well, it means 'hidden'. When something is suppressed, it becomes hidden.

I think that all forms of knowledge are helpful. Our level of knowledge correlates with our level of awareness, and our level of awareness correlates with our level of free will. The greater our free will, the greater our chances of transcending the established control system.

[manxboz]

Nothing wrong with it if it is used for good. Occult can be used to describe most outbound Religious theories and even science.

[illuminati downfall]

I've wondered for a while, what exactly is supposed to be wrong with The Occult. Is it simply that it's anti-Christian? I've been looking into it for about a year or so now and to me it just seems like a form of self help. I'm no expert though, unlike many people on here who have a profound dislike of it, so that's why I'm asking the question: what's wrong with the occult?

I have honestly wondered that myself several times but never did get the nerve to voice that question on here. Nice work for asking that. :) Personally I have no dislike of the occult overall. In fact I think it's a very interesting subject. yet it seems that so many in the truth community are very much opposed to it. I was never sure if that was an opposition to all of it, period, or more like me, who is only opposed to the "evil" side of it. I believe that everything has a good and a bad side and is really all about intent. So then really, it's not that occult practice or study is and evil thing in general. It's only that certain parts of it, ( which apparently the elites use) that are a very bad thing.

[mrerisian]

It seems to me that it's a tool which the powers that be (ie Christianity etc) don't want us to use, on pain of eternal suffering.

Time to cast some spells! ;)

[drael]

Its just a form of metaphysics heavy mysticism. The goal isnt really to cast spells, its enlightment.

Some excellent materials are around, with deep wisdoms therein.

[mrerisian]

Its just a form of metaphysics heavy mysticism. The goal isnt really to cast spells, its enlightment.

Well, a lot of people would see "enlightenment" as a bad thing. Part of the 'luciferian' agenda. What with Lucifer being "the light bringer" an' all.

Kind of annoys me when people use that term as an indication of something being bad.

[drael]

Well those that claim inner and outer knowledge to be wrong are just silly, arent they?

Enlightenment is a deep realisation about our interconnectness and the sacredness of being. How can that be bad?

[mrindigo]

It's made to be seen as something bad when thinking like that removes dependability on shady characters. Those who rule, do so through keeping their people ignorant and in the dark. If everyone were truly educated, they wouldn't have people serving in the military, working most of their life, drinking poisoned tap water, eating poisoned foods, etc. Their little house of cards would fall in. Funny how that all works out when it shouldn't, huh? Nearly everything in society is backwards.

[runciter]

It seems to me that it's a tool which the powers that be (ie Christianity etc) don't want us to use, on pain of eternal suffering.

Time to cast some spells! ;)

to me it seems that it's a tool that tptb (the kabbalists) are using to keep us enslaved and hypnotized.

time to expose the sorcerers! :)

[runciter]

Well those that claim inner and outer knowledge to be wrong are just silly, arent they?

Enlightenment is a deep realisation about our interconnectness and the sacredness of being. How can that be bad?

to keep hidden the true nature of the universe is "bad", secrecy is "bad", deception is "bad".

[runciter]

It's made to be seen as something bad when thinking like that removes dependability on shady characters. Those who rule, do so through keeping their people ignorant and in the dark. If everyone were truly educated, they wouldn't have people serving in the military, working most of their life, drinking poisoned tap water, eating poisoned foods, etc. Their little house of cards would fall in. Funny how that all works out when it shouldn't, huh? Nearly everything in society is backwards.

educated about what?

maybe it's secrecy itself that causes this separation between the elite and ordinary people.

[drael]

to keep hidden the true nature of the universe is "bad", secrecy is "bad", deception is "bad".

What does that have to do with the occult? There are plenty of websites and books on the occult. Occult isnt secret. Anyone can read up on the occult. And no ones keeping the nature of the universe secret... mystics have been busy telling evryone they meet for thousands of years.

[mrindigo]

educated about what?

maybe it's secrecy itself that causes this separation between the elite and ordinary people.

Education in general. It's no secret that history, and aspects of science have been altered. The only thing that can't be tampered with is math.

Secrecy itself does not explain the separation, as it's only a minor aspect of it. To successfully execute mass secrecy, the level of education would have to be higher than average people. It likely involve materials kept from the rest of the populations through suppression. Aspects and broken pieces remain and have been daubed 'occult'. While they're largely unknown to most of the general populous, it's common knowledge to others with the right bloodline, money, and position of power. It's evident that even these bits of lingering information are undesirable to these folks, and have since attempted to 'black list' them within society.

[runciter]

What does that have to do with the occult? There are plenty of websites and books on the occult. Occult isnt secret. Anyone can read up on the occult. And no ones keeping the nature of the universe secret... mystics have been busy telling evryone they meet for thousands of years.

occult means hidden, secret, if it's accessible to anyone it isn't occult.

mystics weren't able to express their ideas in a fully understandable way.

but now we have enough inner and outer knowledge to describe our reality.

i think electricity is the key, electromagnetic waves and fields etc :)

[mrindigo]

And no ones keeping the nature of the universe secret... .

I would beg to differ, as would the Vatican and Spanish who systematically destroyed 'occult' materials and civilizations, or horded it for themselves.

[runciter]

Education in general. It's no secret that history, and aspects of science have been altered. The only thing that can't be tampered with is math.

math is a human creation, with math you can create fictional models of the universe, dimensions..

Secrecy is does not explain the separation, as it's only a minor aspect of it. To successfully execute mass secrecy, the level of education would have to be higher than average people. It likely involve materials kept from the rest of the populations through suppression. Aspects and broken pieces remain and have been daubed 'occult'. While they're largely unknown to most of the general populous, it's common knowledge to others with the right bloodline, money, and position of power. It's evident that even these bits of lingering information are undesirable to these folks, and have since attempted to 'black list' them within society.

there would be no separation if the truth were known, so secrecy and separation are one and the same.

[limelady]

The "occult" that is available to us (the lower minions) is not the same as the occult that's available to those in the higher echelons of power. They have made sure there is MUCH we are unable to attain, therefore without all the answers, we are left grasping at staws a lot of the time.

The elite wizards use their occult magic against humanity (sigils (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigil_%28magic%29), ritual etc), and because we don't understand how it all works at that level, it is an effective means of controlling the masses, without their full understanding or consent.

Freeman is a good source of understanding on these matters

http://thefreemanperspective.blogspot.com/

[runciter]

I would beg to differ, as would the Vatican and Spanish who systematically destroyed 'occult' materials and civilizations, or horded it for themselves.

those materials were fallible attempts to give a credible description of reality.

were they correct? the fact that they were destroyed doesn't make them "good".

[runciter]

The "occult" that is available to us (the lower minions) is not the same as the occult that's available to those in the higher echelons of power. They have made sure there is MUCH we are unable to attain, therefore without all the answers, we are left grasping at staws a lot of the time.

The elite wizards use their occult magic against humanity (sigils (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigil_%28magic%29), ritual etc), and because we don't understand how it all works at that level, it is an effective means of controlling the masses, without their full understanding or consent.

i don't think we have to fully understand them, especially if their belief system is built on questionable assumptions.

[mrindigo]

math is a human creation, with math you can create fictional models of the universe, dimensions..



there would be no separation if the truth were known, so secrecy and separation are one and the same.

I wasn't denying that the two were separate, merely that they are only a small portion of it. A certain level of higher education is required to execute them as masterfully as is being done.

As for math, theoretical physics is just that, theoretical and does not mean that it's an absolute. Math goes beyond mere human creation, it's a system used to help understand the world around us, and beyond. In a sense it's a divine language. :)

http://mathworld.wolfram.com/GoldenRatio.html

[limelady]

i don't think we have to fully understand them, especially if their belief system is built on questionable assumptions.

Well many of us are beginning to realise exactly what's been going on, and how they do things, therefore we are starting to have an effect on how their power plan plays out. Tbh, I think we have rendered them all but impotent in some areas, and this makes them quake in their boots. ;)

[thoughtonfire]

39. Jesus said, "The Pharisees and the scholars have taken the keys of knowledge and have hidden them. They have not entered nor have they allowed those who want to enter to do so." - The Gospel of Thomas

http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/gosthom.html

[runciter]

I wasn't denying that the two were separate, merely that they are only a small portion of it. A certain level of higher education is required to execute them as masterfully as is being done.

As for math, theoretical physics is just that, theoretical and does not mean that it's an absolute. Math goes beyond mere human creation, it's a system used to help understand the world around us, and beyond. In a sense it's a divine language. :)

http://mathworld.wolfram.com/GoldenRatio.html

my view on math is slightly different, i think it's only a useful tool, an artificial tool :)

all that exists, or is supposed to exist, beyond this reality, may be just a human projection.

[mrindigo]

Well many of us are beginning to realise exactly what's been going on, and how they do things, therefore we are starting to have an effect on how their power plan plays out. Tbh, I think we have rendered them all but impotent in some areas, and this makes them quake in their boots. ;)

I would have have to agree with you Limelady. Had that not been the case, I don't think a majority of us would be seeking information if it were readily available. If everything were an open book with no suppression, David Icke and others would be doing different things. The people of this forum (and others) would likely be going about their lives, rather than conversing here. :)

[runciter]

Well many of us are beginning to realise exactly what's been going on, and how they do things, therefore we are starting to have an effect on how their power plan plays out. Tbh, I think we have rendered them all but impotent in some areas, and this makes them quake in their boots. ;)

yes, i have the same feeling, and i admire the good people who are unlocking their secrets.

personally, i prefer not to get too close to "the beast", better to look for alternatives instead :cool:

[nectars]

What's wrong with The Occult?

Nothing. Like anything it can be used for positive or negative. A surgeons knife can be used to heal, but also to kill -does that make it evil? The problems with people not the tools. My own preference is mostly for Hermetic and Chaos magik. I'd advise anyone to get at least a basic grounding with Occult magik in both theory and practice. But hey, thats just me :)

Someone mentioned "mathmatics". Well, heres a post from another forum regarding it that which some may find interesting. It's not written by me btw. Enjoy.

The Occult vs. Mathematics as mystical path

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am a trained mathematician. I only got into the occult afterwards. Everyone goes through a "searching" period of their spiritual initiation, then they find their home. I knew that occultism was my home becuase it is not that different from mathematics. I wanted to get some discussion going on the similarities between mathematics and the occult. Let me point out the big connections.

First off, consider mathematics as a mystical path. The mathematician's theories are like thoughts in the mind of God-- pure abstract archetypal ideas. But in order to communicate these theories, they must be written in a symbolic language. When a mathematician wants to understand the theories of another mathematician, he must at least speak the same symbolic language. He must also be able to penetrate to the abstract archetypal ideas that lie behind the symbols. A mathematician develops spiritually by not having to rely on the symbols and so instead he can work directly with the archetypes. Working directly with archetypes makes his mind more like the mind of God.

Now, re-read the last paragraph but substitute "occultism" for "mathematics" and "occultist" for "mathematician". Still makes sense, doesn't it? Why should this be so? How could such a close correspondence go unnoticed by either community for so long? I feel that in ancient times, mathematics and occultism were one and the same. It was a mystical path. For whatever reason, there was a fork in the road and only the mathematics that could be used in astronomy, architecture, and commerce was taught. The part that could be used for inner development was called occultism and magic, while the part that could be used for material development was called mathematics, physics, and economics.

It is my goal to bring these roads together again. I envision a team of researchers applying mathematical theorems to the Qabalah in order to study consciousness. I envision a team of magicians engaged in mathematical research to deepen their connection with archetypal forms.

This isn't that far off if you think about it. Magic is defined as the art which produces effects by mastery of the secret forces of nature. It has not been long since gravity would have been considered a secret force of nature.

So I really want to get ideas from occultists on how they view mathematics, in light of the similarities mentioned here, and especially about math-as-mysticism. I should point out that the math I studied in graduate school was not of the calculational-sort you would have done through high school and even college. I'm talking about the purely theoretical. I can give some examples of mathematical archetypes if anyone is interested.

[mrindigo]

my view on math is slightly different, i think it's only a useful tool, an artificial tool :)

all that exists, or is supposed to exist, beyond this reality, may be just a human projection.

That's possible that this life may be a projection, and math is only relevant to this reality. But while we're here now experiencing this reality, it serves a purpose. It's one that can't be corrupted by the breaking of the rules of this reality construct, as it's a universal constant. It bridges gaps and helps to make sense of things that our limited consciousness could not otherwise make sense of. I'm sure when and if we pass this current state, it won't serve much of a purpose, but for now it's useful. :)

[runciter]

Nothing. Like anything it can be used for positive or negative. A surgeons knife can be used to heal, but also to kill -does that make it evil? The problems with people not the tools. My own preference is mostly for Hermetic and Chaos magik. I'd advise anyone to get at least a basic grounding with Occult magik in both theory and practice. But hey, thats just me :)

Someone mentioned "mathmatics". Well, heres a post from another forum regarding it that which some may find interesting. It's not written by me btw. Enjoy.

duh, occult is hidden knowledge, not knowledge that sometimes happens to be hidden.

if it's hidden, it's occult, if it's accessible, it's simple knowledge, or information, or anything.

when you say that it can be used for positive or negative, try to change "occult" with "secrecy".

and the concepts of positive and negative should be defined, we don't agree on everything i suspect.

math is similar to the occult, because it can be like an esoteric language, with its high priests and initiates.

[runciter]

That's possible that this life may be a projection, and math is only relevant to this reality. But while we're here now experiencing this reality, it serves a purpose. It's one that can't be corrupted by the breaking of the rules of this reality construct, as it's a universal constant. It bridges gaps and helps to make sense of things that our limited consciousness could not otherwise make sense of. I'm sure when and if we pass this current state, it won't serve much of a purpose, but for now it's useful. :)

the problem is that our current condition is somehow miserable, from a collective point of view.

i'm not sure that math is a constant of the outer reality, maybe it has more to do with the mind :confused:

the platonic approach may be a self-fulfilling prophecy, in a certain sense: it creates what it describes.

[thelyran]

...There are also inbred mind-control family occults and sorcerers,that if they
can,hook and chord you,try to make you suicide,all for raising your awareness
...considerate they are.That was a joke...only way to deal with it.
...and there are individuals and groups who are lightworkers and healers,
amongst the most talented and humble people,despite the horrors they witness,let alone heal,whether the victim has self induced it or was actually
targetted by some hunting lodge.
...I once met a former occultist that was hooked for 9 years,by his own occult group,because he tried to leave.He was naturally clairvoyant,after his ordeal settled down,he hosted a small morning programme on Monday mornings,Sea FM,Central coast,but since moved to Queensland....Oh Jason,if you're reading this,I beat your record,9 years 7 months:D...give my love to Leigh,Jase....I know they like Icke and nexus

[drael]

occult means hidden, secret, if it's accessible to anyone it isn't occult.

So lets take the egyptain book of the dead, or the kyballion. Both easy to get on the net. They both describe fully how magick is acheived. Are they not occult? They are in my book. Ive read lots of occult materials, none of them were hidden.

mystics weren't able to express their ideas in a fully understandable way.

Because the truth lies outside of duality, which is by nature outside of common language. just because it has specialist lingo, and is primarily based in experience, doesnt make it hidden. If you want to get what im on about here check the wiki page on mysticism, it explains how the only actual way to convey mystic ideas is via things like metaphor...

Or put more simply, as the Egyptian book of the dead says "all help is self-help", or in other words the realisation must come from within, not outside yourself. You cant explain enlightenment to another in literal terms and offer anything of use.
I totally disagree that there are any real secrets in magick. Once you have the principle of will, which is in plain english in the kyballion, you have all you need to do magick...

This notion that there are secret words, or rituals that unlock massive power is a fairytale. There are no secret keys or words, only the one path to knowledge that anyone can find.

I challenge anyone who understands the basic laws and tenants set out in the kyballion to explain what more there is to magick that could be secret!?

Occult doesnt mean hidden, it means the study of the hidden. In that its very misleading anyway, because the so called hidden is also self-evident.

Seriously no one who understands magick sees it as something the SS's have a monopoly on. Its just not like that at all. Its not harry potter, no special combination of words give occult power, only will does that, something which many of these SS lack in the extreme.

Serious misconceptions here.

"abracadabra willy-woo!" isnt magick. Magick comes from the inside, from will.

if it's hidden, it's occult, if it's accessible, it's simple knowledge, or information, or anything.

Can you name anything occult that is truely hidden?

Jezz I though peoples idea of science was messed up. Everything occult originates from the self, and experience. Thus its impossible to hide. No such things CAN be hidden. It is called "hidden" knowlegde, because despite being everywhere, self-evident, it often requires self-work to reach for yourself. it is also not easily expressable in duality based langauge, rather it is better expressed in symbols.

Just name occult skill, technique or acheivement you beleive is hidden.......Ill show you its not hidden at all. not mainstream, but certainly not hidden.

Consider as a contrast christianity. In christianity, every ritual can only be performed and taught, to the preist. The follower gets nothing, no knowledge, no power. In the occult, your allowed knowledge, and to be involved.

[runciter]

So lets take the egyptain book of the dead, or the kyballion. Both easy to get on the net. They both describe fully how magick is acheived. Are they not occult? They are in my book. Ive read lots of occult materials, none of them were hidden.



Because the truth lies outside of duality, which is by nature outside of common language. just because it has specialist lingo, and is primarily based in experience, doesnt make it hidden. If you want to get what im on about here check the wiki page on mysticism, it explains how the only actual way to convey mystic ideas is via things like metaphor...

Or put more simply, as the Egyptian book of the dead says "all help is self-help", or in other words the realisation must come from within, not outside yourself. You cant explain enlightenment to another in literal terms and offer anything of use.
I totally disagree that there are any real secrets in magick. Once you have the principle of will, which is in plain english in the kyballion, you have all you need to do magick...

This notion that there are secret words, or rituals that unlock massive power is a fairytale. There are no secret keys or words, only the one path to knowledge that anyone can find.

I challenge anyone who understands the basic laws and tenants set out in the kyballion to explain what more there is to magick that could be secret!?

Occult doesnt mean hidden, it means the study of the hidden. In that its very misleading anyway, because the so called hidden is also self-evident.

Seriously no one who understands magick sees it as something the SS's have a monopoly on. Its just not like that at all. Its not harry potter, no special combination of words give occult power, only will does that, something which many of these SS lack in the extreme.

Serious misconceptions here.

"abracadabra willy-woo!" isnt magick. Magick comes from the inside, from will.

occult literally means hidden, egyptian magic wasn't available to anyone i think.

i agree with you that there is no secret, but secrecy is an excellent tool of control.

make people believe you know some secret, and you have power over them, it's simple.

serious misconceptions? or serious overrating of some information?

[runciter]

Can you name anything occult that is truely hidden?

Jezz I though peoples idea of science was messed up. Everything occult originates from the self, and experience. Thus its impossible to hide. No such things CAN be hidden. It is called "hidden" knowlegde, because despite being everywhere, self-evident, it often requires self-work to reach for yourself. it is also not easily expressable in duality based langauge, rather it is better expressed in symbols.

Just name occult skill, technique or acheivement you beleive is hidden.......Ill show you its not hidden at all. not mainstream, but certainly not hidden.

Consider as a contrast christianity. In christianity, every ritual can only be performed and taught, to the preist. The follower gets nothing, no knowledge, no power. In the occult, your allowed knowledge, and to be involved.

no reason to abandon your personal definition of the thing, if it makes you feel better.

[thoughtonfire]

My quote made nobody stop to think?

[drael]

occult literally means hidden, egyptian magic wasn't available to anyone i think.


Hard to make sense of the historical account myself...Seems very inaccurate to say the least. Occult is taken to mean hidden, but that isnt really accurate, except from a laymans POV. Esoteric is probably a better word.

i agree with you that there is no secret, but secrecy is an excellent tool of control.

make people believe you know some secret, and you have power over them, it's simple.

serious misconceptions? or serious overrating of some information?

Thats an astute analyis. Very. Serious over-rating of some information. People would like you to beleive they have some hidden key, but they dont.

Its the stuff of all sorts of cults, going back into history. Also people are lazy, they dont want to do inner work, they just want magick powers....

Its a bit like miracles cures. Or that monoatomic gold stuff.

[runciter]

My quote made nobody stop to think?

sorry i missed it, here it is

39. Jesus said, "The Pharisees and the scholars have taken the keys of knowledge and have hidden them. They have not entered nor have they allowed those who want to enter to do so." - The Gospel of Thomas

http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/gosthom.html

[drael]

"The Pharisees and the scholars have taken the keys of knowledge and have hidden them. They have not entered nor have they allowed those who want to enter to do so." - The Gospel of Thomas

Good quote, especially for established religions.

Also the emerald tablets of thoth, say something like... "they will take wisdom and corrupt it, to make religion of it. Do not fret for they will leave pearls of wisdom" (hugely paraphrased) . Bible is a great example. Excellent mystic text, in certain parts, if you ignore the religious side and use your heart to listen to what truth is there, or not.

Preists and gurus are fakers, for sure.

I also love in the bible, and especially in the gnostic parts it says "for those that have the ears to hear, listen". One needs not just the words, but the ears to hear them. (Ie it relies on you truely understanding the words)

[nectars]

duh, occult is hidden knowledge, not knowledge that sometimes happens to be hidden.

if it's hidden, it's occult, if it's accessible, it's simple knowledge, or information, or anything.

when you say that it can be used for positive or negative, try to change "occult" with "secrecy".

and the concepts of positive and negative should be defined, we don't agree on everything i suspect.

math is similar to the occult, because it can be like an esoteric language, with its high priests and initiates.

Wow, I'm glad you pointed that out or I'd never have known :rolleyes:

You seem to be getting caught up in this "hidden" thing dude. Heres the thing; the internet. This stuff -all of it- was hidden; was secret and was very difficult to get access to unless invited into the knowledge as an initiate or through some seriously deep research. That however has now changed, and as you'll find, most practicing occultists are more than happy to share "occult knowledge". Wont do you much good though unless you do it.

Now at a deeper level, even if you know about it, its still hidden -unless you actually practice it and and make that which is hidden known.

My quote made nobody stop to think?

Glad you brought that up. I've had quite an interest in the Gnostic teachings of Jesus as taught in the Nag Hammadi scriptures for quite a while, esspecially the Gospel of Thomas.

39. Jesus said, "The Pharisees and the scholars have taken the keys of knowledge and have hidden them. They have not entered nor have they allowed those who want to enter to do so." - The Gospel of Thomas

http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/gosthom.html

This is what I've been trying to point out above. These teachings are coming out again and should be made available to those who wish to know experiencially.

[orbit]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZMC4Rgl3lI

[runciter]

Wow, I'm glad you pointed that out or I'd never have known :rolleyes:

You seem to be getting caught up in this "hidden" thing dude. Heres the thing; the internet. This stuff -all of it- was hidden; was secret and was very difficult to get access to unless invited into the knowledge as an initiate or through some seriously deep research. That however has now changed, and as you'll find, most practicing occultists are more than happy to share "occult knowledge". Wont do you much good though unless you do it.

Now at a deeper level, even if you know about it, its still hidden -unless you actually practice it and and make that which is hidden known.



Glad you brought that up. I've had quite an interest in the Gnostic teachings of Jesus as taught in the Nag Hammadi scriptures for quite a while, esspecially the Gospel of Thomas.



This is what I've been trying to point out above. These teachings are coming out again and should be made available to those who wish to know experiencially.

what are you talking about exactly? what was hidden and now is known?

the fact that there's no secret, and secrecy itself is the cause of our woes?

or is it a secret? who got caught up? who's got some ancient game to defend?

what is this occult knowledge? what is it all about? :)

[chris]

I've wondered for a while, what exactly is supposed to be wrong with The Occult. Is it simply that it's anti-Christian? I've been looking into it for about a year or so now and to me it just seems like a form of self help. I'm no expert though, unlike many people on here who have a profound dislike of it, so that's why I'm asking the question: what's wrong with the occult?

The problem with todays occult is that a lot of the teachings have been taken away.

Another problem is that anti-occultists make the current day occult to be extremely powerful when really it's luke warm.

So basically not that much is happening and people are chasing their tails.

[sade]

Nothing wrong with the occult, more wrong with those who are anti-occult.

Also, the sad thing is, that half of the stuff being discussed on the internet about the occult and secret societies is nonsense.
It's not understood CORRECTLY. You can obviously connect the dots, but that doesn't mean you are connecting them in the right way.

[runciter]

The problem with todays occult is that a lot of the teachings have been taken away.

Another problem is that anti-occultists make the current day occult to be extremely powerful when really it's luke warm.

So basically not that much is happening and people are chasing their tails.

kabbalists who practice any kind of sacrifice are in control of everything, nothing serious.

[runciter]

Nothing wrong with the occult, more wrong with those who are anti-occult.

Also, the sad thing is, that half of the stuff being discussed on the internet about the occult and secret societies is nonsense.
It's not understood CORRECTLY. You can obviously connect the dots, but that doesn't mean you are connecting them in the right way.

sure, people who expose the illuminati death cult are far more dangerous.

[thoughtonfire]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZMC4Rgl3lI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hQgCJGNspI

[nectars]

what are you talking about exactly? what was hidden and now is known?

Thats the point, its all hidden unless its been made known subjectivly & experiencially. This goes back to a comment I've already made elsewhere on these forums regarding the lie that "knowledge is power". Knowledge is NOT power. Applied Knowledge is power, other than that its nothing more than the mental accumulation of intellectual information posing as wisdom. Theres a big difference between "Knowing" and "knowing about".

All the reading "about" in the world aint worth sh*t unless it can be of practical use.

the fact that there's no secret, and secrecy itself is the cause of our woes?

or is it a secret? who got caught up? who's got some ancient game to defend?

No, there is, but how many are prepared to do what needs done and find out for themselves? Once we know subjectivly, there no longer any secret; most though are happy with the vicarious living of this truth. Through this they make themselves subject to being at the mercy of those who they believe do "know" and are willing to use what they supposedly know against them for personal advantage or gain.

what is this occult knowledge? what is it all about?

What dont you know in yourself? Occult knowledge to me is that which was previously unknown and which can be repeatably demonstrated through creating certain conditions to bring about a predictable result. Simply put, the Occult teachings are the Science of life and of existence.

kabbalists who practice any kind of sacrifice are in control of everything, nothing serious.

You believe there is a "they" who are in control?

sure, people who expose the illuminati death cult are far more dangerous.

From looking around conspiracy sites a large percentage of them are just as dangerous.

[runciter]

Thats the point, its all hidden unless its been made known subjectivly & experiencially. This goes back to a comment I've already made elsewhere on these forums regarding the lie that "knowledge is power". Knowledge is NOT power. Applied Knowledge is power, other than that its nothing more than the mental accumulation of intellectual information posing as wisdom. Theres a big difference between "Knowing" and "knowing about".

All the reading "about" in the world aint worth sh*t unless it can be of practical use.



No, there is, but how many are prepared to do what needs done and find out for themselves? Once we know subjectivly, there no longer any secret; most though are happy with the vicarious living of this truth. Through this they make themselves subject to being at the mercy of those who they believe do "know" and are willing to use what they supposedly know against them for personal advantage or gain.



What dont you know in yourself? Occult knowledge to me is that which was previously unknown and which can be repeatably demonstrated through creating certain conditions to bring about a predictable result. Simply put, the Occult teachings are the Science of life and of existence.



You believe there is a "they" who are in control?



From looking around conspiracy sites a large percentage of them are just as dangerous.

to summarize your post:

you consider yourself more enlightened than others for reasons not clear.

people who expose the mass murderers are as dangerous as them.

your self-hypnosis makes you doubt about their existence.

[marpat]

kabbalists who practice any kind of sacrifice are in control of everything, nothing serious.

Actually many people use kabbalistic teachings. Kabbalah is more a set of teachings than practices. I dont know anybody who studies it who has carried out a sacrifice. What do you think of Ickes chum Credo being an animal sacrificer?

[cpfc12]

Occult means secret, it doesn't necesserily have to have anything to do with devil worship, its like gunpowder can be used for positive purposes or negative, but unfortunly its used mostly for the negative, and when it is, then there is nothing "just ok" about it.

[mikey mikey]

Just dont

[marpat]

sure, people who expose the illuminati death cult are far more dangerous.

What death cult?

[marpat]

Occult means secret, it doesn't necesserily have to have anything to do with devil worship, its like gunpowder can be used for positive purposes or negative, but unfortunly its used mostly for the negative, and when it is, then there is nothing "just ok" about it.

Who said it is mainly negatively used? that is a pure speculation on your part.

[runciter]

What death cult?

9/11 mass sacrifice, for example.

[marpat]

9/11 mass sacrifice, for example.

whatever

[runciter]

Actually many people use kabbalistic teachings. Kabbalah is more a set of teachings than practices. I dont know anybody who studies it who has carried out a sacrifice. What do you think of Ickes chum Credo being an animal sacrificer?

the reality of child sacrifice in history has been documented, even by jewish scholars.

i think the sabbatean kabbalists are still doing such things, like some witnesses reported.

credo? i would ask him to stop sacrificing animals, if i met him.

[marpat]

the reality of child sacrifice in history has been documented, even by jewish scholars.

i think the sabbatean kabbalists are still doing such things, like some witnesses reported.

credo? i would ask him to stop sacrificing animals, if i met him.

But if they are killing kids this does not make child sacrifice a kabbalistic method just that people schooled in those methods have decided to chose an evil path. Dont forget that the tree of life has two sides, an obverse and an averse. Personally I cant see any reason why such a thing would be done.

There is also the fact that jews in ancient times used to worship other gods and this was banned for political reasons but who is to say that some do not get involved in things which are outside of their religion, as in ancient times?

[chris]

most sacrifices are such things as offering bread and incense. This is why most occultists think your crazy when you just mention the more hardcore stuff.

[umbrex]

the occult litterally tranclates to "unknown" ...if anything have ever scared man, it is the unknown

[runciter]

But if they are killing kids this does not make child sacrifice a kabbalistic method just that people schooled in those methods have decided to chose an evil path. Dont forget that the tree of life has two sides, an obverse and an averse. Personally I cant see any reason why such a thing would be done.

There is also the fact that jews in ancient times used to worship other gods and this was banned for political reasons but who is to say that some do not get involved in things which are outside of their religion, as in ancient times?

i don't disagree.

it's like saying that the inquisition or other horrors don't make christians or christianity "evil".

and of course there are many examples of child sacrifice that have nothing to do with kabbalah.

[runciter]

most sacrifices are such things as offering bread and incense. This is why most occultists think your crazy when you just mention the more hardcore stuff.

i don't doubt it.

there are a few psychopaths (quite a few, sadly) that are giving the occult a bad name.

and they have some material power, noth much, just a little :)

[sade]

sure, people who expose the illuminati death cult are far more dangerous.

They are dangerous if they are doing it with an agenda in their minds,
which they obviously have, since they have no proof of the accusations they are making towards them.
(I am talking about the baby-eating, shapeshifting reptilians who do rituals to take control over the planet.
Not the bankers, nor the companies who want more power, since these we have proof of. :))

most sacrifices are such things as offering bread and incense. This is why most occultists think your crazy when you just mention the more hardcore stuff.

INDEED! But most people fail to see this because they just don't want to see the truth. Propaganda, again.

[runciter]

They are dangerous if they are doing it with an agenda in their minds,
which they obviously have, since they have no proof of the accusations they are making towards them.
(I am talking about the baby-eating, shapeshifting reptilians who do rituals to take control over the planet.
Not the bankers, nor the companies who want more power, since these we have proof of. :))



INDEED! But most people fail to see this because they just don't want to see the truth. Propaganda, again.

i don't know about the reptilians, but i think the baby-eating thing is real.

[sade]

It's real yeah, done by some fools, but not by Bush, Cheney and etc until otherwise proven.

[runciter]

It's real yeah, done by some fools, but not by Bush, Cheney and etc until otherwise proven.

i think powerful people are also involved, maybe not bush and cheney, i didn't hear that about them.

[meksar]

Like the masons say "there is nothing wrong with secrets", well obviously there is and the occult knowledge was stolen from ancient civilizations and corrupted by these soulless ones. Freemasonry is based the Kemet mysteries and Moorish science, of course they being the devils they are do it all backwards to suit their agenda of demonic control.

[sade]

i think powerful people are also involved, maybe not bush and cheney, i didn't hear that about them.

Cheney, Bush, Hillary and etc have all been said to take part in baby-eating rituals where they raise demons.
And if you didn't know, you haven't missed out on anything either, since it's all bullshit.

Anyways, they are not guilty unless proven otherwise.
Besides, the truth always comes out, so we will find out at some if these rumours are true.

[meksar]

Cheney, Bush, Hillary and etc have all been said to take part in baby-eating rituals where they raise demons.
And if you didn't know, you haven't missed out on anything either, since it's all bullshit.

Anyways, they are not guilty unless proven otherwise.
Besides, the truth always comes out, so we will find out at some if these rumours are true.

They are all bisexual and into satanism and you are using the elites excuse of innocent until proven guilty, however people in everyday society are guilty until proven innocent, here is a taste of your own medicine.

Guilty?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1200310/Police-raid-30th-birthday-barbecue-man-used-Facebook-invite-friends.html

Innocent?
http://theuniversalseduction.com/articles/bohemian-grove-illuminati-meet-last-week-for-satanic-rituals

[runciter]

Cheney, Bush, Hillary and etc have all been said to take part in baby-eating rituals where they raise demons.
And if you didn't know, you haven't missed out on anything either, since it's all bullshit.

Anyways, they are not guilty unless proven otherwise.
Besides, the truth always comes out, so we will find out at some if these rumours are true.

lol, let's hope you're right :)

i agree with the second part of your post, seeing them as child-eaters is a bit unfair.

[runciter]

They are all bisexual and into satanism and you are using the elites excuse of innocent until proven guilty, however people in everyday society are guilty until proven innocent, here is a taste of your own medicine.

Guilty?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1200310/Police-raid-30th-birthday-barbecue-man-used-Facebook-invite-friends.html

Innocent?
http://theuniversalseduction.com/articles/bohemian-grove-illuminati-meet-last-week-for-satanic-rituals

they're already guilty of many other crimes, without a shadow of doubt.

and i'm convinced that such rituals exist and aren't uncommon among the elite.

not sure if the above mentioned politicians took part in rituals involving cannibalism.

[sade]

Meksar, don't be mad just because I disagree with you. That's foolish. :(
And maybe in your society people are guilty unless proven otherwise, but in my society they are not.

Runciter, I hope so too!

[meksar]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW7-UskI3To

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IG2XDuMS0QU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdrtRIxJZ5k&feature=related

[rhydra]

Almost anything is occult if some members are kept away from the inner workings of a religion, any other spiritual organisation or group.

As for the hostility, it is quite natural for those who have an interest in keeping their own followers from the true meaning of their organised religions by A/ keeping their own methods secret and B/ condemning anything which may uncover the shaky foundations of their own religion to their followers by condemning anyone who points out an alternative as an occultist, devil worshipper, baby eater etc.

Seeing how even breakaway religions of the main branches of Judaism, Christianity, Islam are treated, followers burned, slandered, condemned etc, shows that they are more concerned about their own religions being exposed for the B/S they are than people actually looking further into the meanings behind holy books and practising incantations, meditative experiences etc.

[meksar]

Almost anything is occult if some members are kept away from the inner workings of a religion, any other spiritual organisation or group.

As for the hostility, it is quite natural for those who have an interest in keeping their own followers from the true meaning of their organised religions by A/ keeping their own methods secret and B/ condemning anything which may uncover the shaky foundations of their own religion to their followers by condemning anyone who points out an alternative as an occultist, devil worshipper, baby eater etc.

Seeing how even breakaway religions of the main branches of Judaism, Christianity, Islam are treated, followers burned, slandered, condemned etc, shows that they are more concerned about their own religions being exposed for the B/S they are than people actually looking further into the meanings behind holy books and practising incantations, meditative experiences etc.

Many see both religion and the occult as having positive and negative aspects in them, it seems to be the darkside of them which causes people to criticize and condemn both. Religions were setup to suppress intuitive thinking and natural emotions, and yes the scriptures are written like a Hollywood movie and we all have are part to play.

The leaders of the faiths and fraternities are operating very high in the pyramid, the lower and mid ranks are in conflict and are being mislead by their superiors. There are good people in both, but if you look at Freemasonry for example, masons who question or disobey orders are usually ostracized or kicked out of masonry. There is organized or disorganized groups, the main reason for this is to keep it all running smoothly.

[eternal_spirit]

Like the masons say "there is nothing wrong with secrets", well obviously there is and the occult knowledge was stolen from ancient civilizations and corrupted by these soulless ones. Freemasonry is based the Kemet mysteries and Moorish science, of course they being the devils they are do it all backwards to suit their agenda of demonic control.

What real evidence is there to suggest this about the Kemet/Moors? If it's partly based on the old chestnut about Islamic sciences (well they stole that off the Persians when they invaded and anything else they pretend is Islamic was stolen from other cultures.
The whole kemet (Egypt) myth is spouted by Nation of Islam and the likes.

[meksar]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RexBGuD5KHg&feature=related

[eternal_spirit]

You may as well believe the myth about Atlantis and the good priesthood occultists. And was some how infiltrated with bad guys etc, No real proof, just stories and myths.

[thirdwave]

I've wondered for a while, what exactly is supposed to be wrong with The Occult. Is it simply that it's anti-Christian? I've been looking into it for about a year or so now and to me it just seems like a form of self help. I'm no expert though, unlike many people on here who have a profound dislike of it, so that's why I'm asking the question: what's wrong with the occult?

the word occult means "Hidden knowledge"

So maybe the occult can been seen as negative in some way because its only viewed by a certain few...

but the knowledge its self is not bad or evil

Religions have been taught this because the PTB have not wanted people to know about or understand the hidden knowledge...

a, so they dont understand they things they do
b, so people cant empower them sevles..

the only thing wrong with magic is so many people are hopeless at understanding it or doing it.

[thirdwave]

i don't think we have to fully understand them, especially if their belief system is built on questionable assumptions.

I dont think people like you should , god help us all!

But decent intelligent people should .. and are understanding.

Which is why the elite want to create this NWO...

[runciter]

the word occult means "Hidden knowledge"

So maybe the occult can been seen as negative in some way because its only viewed by a certain few...

but the knowledge its self is not bad or evil

Religions have been taught this because the PTB have not wanted people to know about or understand the hidden knowledge...

a, so they dont understand they things they do
b, so people cant empower them sevles..

the only thing wrong with magic is so many people are hopeless at understanding it or doing it.

if you mean that the illuminati do not really understand the true nature of "magic", i agree with you.

[runciter]

I dont think people like you should , god help us all!

But decent intelligent people should .. and are understanding.

Which is why the elite want to create this NWO...

and they're using their kabbalah to achieve that :)

[edelweiss pirate]

the word occult means "Hidden knowledge"


Nope. Occult means 'to hide'. It's a transitive verb.

To occult is to hide something.... often for a good reason.

How to communicate with demons, how to hurt people remotely, how to use sex magick to mind control people, hypnotisism and stealing people's will.

It's hidden because most of it involves trying to violate people's free will and being a right evil bastard..

[thirdwave]

if you mean that the illuminati do not really understand the true nature of "magic", i agree with you.

My honest stance here is that I don't care if you agree with me because you have no idea what you are talking about..

The "illuminati" understand the true nature of magic 100%...

and its why they became incredibly powerful.

And how they have had people like you falling for their pantomimes hook line a sinker for many years...


and they're using their kabbalah to achieve that :)

lol I rest my case.

[thelucifer]

It's hidden because most of it involves trying to violate people's free will and being a right evil bastard..

Yes.

I have to consider hidden in plain sight because this implicates those who choose to not care !
Therein is a problem at least as big as the apex.

[runciter]

My honest stance here is that I don't care if you agree with me because you have no idea what you are talking about..

The "illuminati" understand the true nature of magic 100%...

and its why they became incredibly powerful.

And how they have had people like you falling for their pantomimes hook line a sinker for many years...




lol I rest my case.

you share their values, for this reason you see their greed as some kind of virtue :)

yeah they are truly wonderful guys, they fuck their own children and kill millions of people.

and live healthy and free lives, they freely decide to be monsters, it's not a matter of mind control.

[thirdwave]

Nope. Occult means 'to hide'. It's a transitive verb.

lol, I was not talking about what the word translates into.. I was talking about what it means today.

Sorry I forgot you were a teacher... well if its all the same to you.. I will see at for what it means .. which is hidden knowledge.... unless you want to discuss some meaningless example of when it is used as something other that the thread topic?

To occult is to hide something.... often for a good reason.

Well at least you got the good part right.

ok and what context is the word used in?

also tell us all what an occultists is :)

*grabs pop corn*


How to communicate with demons, how to hurt people remotely, how to use sex magick to mind control people, hypnotisism and stealing people's will.

It's hidden because most of it involves trying to violate people's free will and being a right evil bastard..

Well thats your own christian orientated bias way of looking at it.. and of course narrow minded way..... its also an example of how you can completely contradict your self... a sign of a bullshitter.

It has been hidden for many reasons, and most of all to prevent others from understanding the nature of reality.. and keep that understanding for them sevles.... to keep the ignorant ignorant.... and more interested in Jesus.

the way you bang on demonising anyone who is interested in the occult is just the kind they want to create... Many secret societies were started under ground because their lives would be in danger had they not been.

Many ancients were wiped out by the Romans ...Spanish.. and so on.. and we only here about them from the winners history books.

I see you are also the first to attack those rough and cruel Arabs, probably based on the videos aired in the West of Muslims cutting peoples heads off...

Same people, same plan... same gullible fools.

there is nothing evil about the occult at all....

Its just not good when bastards use it effectively.

[thirdwave]

you share their values, for this reason you see their greed as some kind of virtue :)

yeah they are truly wonderful guys, they fuck their own children and kill millions of people.

and live healthy and free lives, they freely decide to be monsters, it's not a matter of mind control.

Not time for ignorence.. thanks anyway.

[rodin]

I've wondered for a while, what exactly is supposed to be wrong with The Occult. Is it simply that it's anti-Christian? I've been looking into it for about a year or so now and to me it just seems like a form of self help. I'm no expert though, unlike many people on here who have a profound dislike of it, so that's why I'm asking the question: what's wrong with the occult?

I think you know d*mn well what the Occult is

[rodin]

Well, a lot of people would see "enlightenment" as a bad thing. Part of the 'luciferian' agenda. What with Lucifer being "the light bringer" an' all.

Kind of annoys me when people use that term as an indication of something being bad.

Make it more obvious

[runciter]

Not time for ignorence.. thanks anyway.

isn't it true that they fuck their own children? or is it a legend? :)

you admire them eh? they are so poooooowerful, and you'd like to be like them.

[zero1]

I've wondered for a while, what exactly is supposed to be wrong with The Occult. Is it simply that it's anti-Christian? I've been looking into it for about a year or so now and to me it just seems like a form of self help. I'm no expert though, unlike many people on here who have a profound dislike of it, so that's why I'm asking the question: what's wrong with the occult?

It's all matrix BS. Stay away from it, unless.

It can divide the mind, between two worlds; the world of the real, the physical and objective meaning, and the other world of symbols, intellection, and purely subjective meaning. Thus it can lead to decisions remote from reality because they're based on another world that exists only in the mind.

One needs to be very strong minded, spiritually pure and intelligent to navigate the occult world, or it will take a grip of you and never let go.

[turquoisefire777]

It's how it is used, the nature of what is intended as a result.

that's a nice way of looking at it, but most occult stuff is there to entrap you, steal your energy and simply misguide you.

[chris]

One needs to be very strong minded, spiritually pure and intelligent to navigate the occult world, or it will take a grip of you and never let go.

I think the biggest problem with the occult is not because it's so powerful but because it's so subtle. A lot of people come to occult teachings because they believe it's powerful so they basically use it like they use their TV, they disengage their mind and just think something will happen to them. At least with Zen meditation, the practitioners know how bad they are at it.

So they try out all this stuff but really nothings happening, so they go further into doing more and more ridiculous techniques until they are basically just pantomine actors and pseudo occultists (that are extremely annoying to talk to on message boards).

It's a fallacy that the occult is dangerous because it's powerful. I think the reason for this fallacy is because of anti-occult Christians try to scare their subjects away from it but by doing so, they make the occult sound extremely powerful.

[runciter]

It's all matrix BS. Stay away from it, unless.

It can divide the mind, between two worlds; the world of the real, the physical and objective meaning, and the other world of symbols, intellection, and purely subjective meaning. Thus it can lead to decisions remote from reality because they're based on another world that exists only in the mind.

One needs to be very strong minded, spiritually pure and intelligent to navigate the occult world, or it will take a grip of you and never let go.

what if the two realms melted into each other?

[thirdwave]

It's all matrix BS. Stay away from it, unless.

It can divide the mind, between two worlds; the world of the real, the physical and objective meaning, and the other world of symbols, intellection, and purely subjective meaning. Thus it can lead to decisions remote from reality because they're based on another world that exists only in the mind.

One needs to be very strong minded, spiritually pure and intelligent to navigate the occult world, or it will take a grip of you and never let go.

you cant keep away from it as it is simply the nature of reality....

We either evolve or we become drones made to be completely ignorant and slaves.... these are the options.

[runciter]

you cant keep away from it as it is simply the nature of reality....

We either evolve or we become drones made to be completely ignorant and slaves.... these are the options.

maybe you're unable to accept yourself as you are?

the nature of reality is shaped by its inhabitants, humans.

[zero1]

you cant keep away from it as it is simply the nature of reality....

We either evolve or we become drones made to be completely ignorant and slaves.... these are the options.

You certainly can't avoid it entirely in this world, but as you well know TW most people are oblivious, and happily so; they dwell in a state that subsists on crystalized ignorance and deceit.

When you say "you can't keep away from it as it is simply the nature of reality", I agree but I think you mean yourself and people inclined like you, however, how many ordinary folk do YOU know that are genuinely interested in such things?

Most don't question anything. Most are not interested even in the least with the nature of reality or anything about it. They want to work, play, fuck, pay taxes and die in sweet-smelling box. That's about it.

For them, not the exceptional people who have the qualities to navigate the occult world, it is sound advice to say "stay away from it". Yes?

[thirdwave]

that's a nice way of looking at it, but most occult stuff is there to entrap you, steal your energy and simply misguide you.

how so?, please elaborate...

[zero1]

what if the two realms melted into each other?

Yes, what if indeed. That instance, where the two worlds merge, is called by some "genius" and by others "insanity"...

[runciter]

You certainly can't avoid it entirely in this world, but as you well know TW most people are oblivious, and happily so; they dwell in a state that subsists on crystalized ignorance and deceit.

When you say "you can't keep away from it as it is simply the nature of reality", I agree but I think you mean yourself and people inclined like you, however, how many ordinary folk do YOU know that are genuinely interested in such things?

Most don't question anything. Most are not interested even in the least with the nature of reality or anything about it. They want to work, play, fuck, pay taxes and die in sweet-smelling box. That's about it.

For them, not the exceptional people who have the qualities to navigate the occult world, it is sound advice to say "stay away from it". Yes?

the separation between the two realms is artificial, man-made, and it won't last long.

enjoy it while it lasts, especially if it makes you feel special and exceptional and blah blah.

[runciter]

Yes, what if indeed. That instance, where the two worlds merge, is called by some "genius" and by others "insanity"...

no i don't mean individually, i mean a synchronization that embraces all aspects of our reality :)

[thirdwave]

You certainly can't avoid it entirely in this world, but as you well know TW most people are oblivious, and happily so; they dwell in a state that subsists on crystalized ignorance and deceit.


yes people who react to reality rather than create it.

though many years ago we were smarter... before empires took over everything... Man new it could make the rain fall when it wanted... and knew when it should move to avoid danger ..so on...

When you say "you can't keep away from it as it is simply the nature of reality", I agree but I think you mean yourself and people inclined like you, however, how many ordinary folk do YOU know that are genuinely interested in such things?

no because they are made to think its either fake and not real... or evil and dangerous.... or only for girls... or sad people who are into Crystals..

many people on this forum use the same methods to keep this view... one minute they will scream out at it being evil and the enemy... on the other they will mock it as fake or government misleading...

they promote the ignorance...

a good person with a good understanding on the occult, is a gift to the planet.


Most don't question anything. Most are not interested even in the least with the nature of reality or anything about it. They want to work, play, fuck, pay taxes and die in sweet-smelling box. That's about it.

Very true, just how the elite want them... easy to hurd.... easy to predict..

but if everyone new for a fact there was no such this as death... or that they might return in this life as someone less fortunate... then they would soon gain other interests...

its the knowledge that can change the masses... change what they value.


For them, not the exceptional people who have the qualities to navigate the occult world, it is sound advice to say "stay away from it". Yes?

Yes and no.

All of the books I have read on magic have put allot of enthuses on teaching the pupil that it takes years or research and focus to step up....

To except that some cant deal with it so that's that. is basically excepting that man kind must stop evolving, which would never work as to many want to evolve..

at some stage people have either got to learn or just grow deeper as a robot... because the questions will allways be there and will only get bigger.. so they are either going to have to be faced... or deeply and deeply ignored.

micro chips might do the trick.

the reason we can (usualy) safly travle on cars...trains... planes... is because mistakes have been made... and they have grown safer as a result.... sadly thats how it seems with humans....

and if we have been locked in the dark... then we need the light and yes things will fuck up. but that's life.... in the end it would flourish... and nature would take over.... the more that understand, the easier it will be to understand... the less power the elite would have over the masses...

[hawk]

Has anyone thought that the occult technology that we have is not really worth knowing and that they have not given man anything real to work with? It's like people who ask a white witch to case certain spells for them but it doesn't work. The magick is wrong,the formula, all of it is wrong, that's why a huge amount of people never get the desired result they are seeking because the real knowledge has been suppressed and we will not be allowed to get our hands on it for our own needs and purposes.

[zero1]

no i don't mean individually, i mean a synchronization that embraces all aspects of our reality :)

Would that be ideal though? It would involve not only the actualization of the positive aspects of the psyche, but also the darker ones.

[nectars]

to summarize your post:

you consider yourself more enlightened than others for reasons not clear.

Not at all. To me, everyones exactly where they're supposed to be. Theres no "better" or "worse", just different. I have my own understanding, you have yours, if it works for you then its no less right than anyones elses.

people who expose the mass murderers are as dangerous as them.

Yes they can be, but then thats commonly known is it not? Not all of them of course, but there are alot of extremists on here and other supposed "truth exposing" forums etc. who spend alot of time with talk of violence to solve any issue.

your self-hypnosis makes you doubt about their existence.

If your convinced they're real, thats great. You'll have fun with that until you dont any more. I'm not here to convince you of anything mate, just to share my ideas. If you cant see where I'm coming from then thats just the way it is. The one thing I will say though, is dont make the mistake of presuming someone who disagrees with your subjective experience is suffering delusions. I think even you would agree that this in itself would be quite a delusional position to take.

Nice talking, and all the best. I hope you find what your looking for.

Selah

[zero1]

the separation between the two realms is artificial, man-made, and it won't last long.

Maybe so.

enjoy it while it lasts, especially if it makes you feel special and exceptional and blah blah

The ones who do consider themselves the occult masters hide the true knowlege and meanings of everyday things, and secret things (obviously) from the profanse/dwellers in darkness (ie. the ordinary folk). Their time, as you say, may be up though...

[rhydra]

Like anything, it depends on the person who is into it. Someone can become a wizard in the occult and be harmless, yet, someone else can go into mainstream religion become a faithful servant of their God and abuse little boys.

It's like a sword or fire, or a car, use it for good, use it for bad. All this about people being drawn in, if someone is destructive and uses what they have for the purposed of "evil" they will do it from one side or the other.

How many wars and atrocities have been started by convincing the masses that it is God's will that there should not be an enemy left alive or someone who has a nice piece of land happens to be a "heretic" or "witch?"

[runciter]

If your convinced they're real, thats great.


no, it is great if you're convinced that they don't exist :)

nothing to worry about, while the rest of mankind is slowly sinking.

[runciter]

Would that be ideal though? It would involve not only the actualization of the positive aspects of the psyche, but also the darker ones.

it's already happening, you should only become aware of it, and find your place at the center of everything.

[runciter]

Not at all. To me, everyones exactly where they're supposed to be. Theres no "better" or "worse", just different. I have my own understanding, you have yours, if it works for you then its no less right than anyones elses.

there is also the external world.

Yes they can be, but then thats commonly known is it not? Not all of them of course, but there are alot of extremists on here and other supposed "truth exposing" forums etc. who spend alot of time with talk of violence to solve any issue.

no, it's a baseless statement and it's an insult.

If your convinced they're real, thats great. You'll have fun with that until you dont any more. I'm not here to convince you of anything mate, just to share my ideas. If you cant see where I'm coming from then thats just the way it is. The one thing I will say though, is dont make the mistake of presuming someone who disagrees with your subjective experience is suffering delusions. I think even you would agree that this in itself would be quite a delusional position to take.

i see where you're coming from: solipsism and moral neutrality.

Nice talking, and all the best. I hope you find what your looking for.

Selah

am i looking for something? nlp?

[drael]

It can divide the mind, between two worlds; the world of the real, the physical and objective meaning, and the other world of symbols, intellection, and purely subjective meaning. Thus it can lead to decisions remote from reality because they're based on another world that exists only in the mind.

The only reality that exists, is seen through mind, and it is always subjective and symbollic. There is no other world.

[runciter]

The only reality that exists, is seen through mind, and it is always subjective and symbollic. There is no other world.

i only disagree with your idea that reality is always subjective, i would say that it can also be inter-subjective.

we get caught into this subjective / objective dualism, and we forget that we're collectively creating everything :)

[shanecmuir]

Occult means hidden.. and therfore is fundamentally flawed.

Why should anything be hidden?

The only reason is that it could not survive the bright light of attention.

You have to ask what is wrong with it that it cannot stand being seen clearly by the people.

Without secrecy there could never be New World Order.

QED

[runciter]

the eye of horus represents the thalamus in the human brain.

http://www.thethoughts.co.uk/thoughts/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/eye_of_horus_thalamus_brain.jpg

104 They said to Jesus, "Come, let us pray today, and let us fast."

Jesus said, "What sin have I committed, or how have I been undone? Rather, when the groom leaves the bridal suite, then let people fast and pray."

thalamus means bridal chamber, the groom is the pineal gland.

[anthony65]

An interesting thread. Although as someone else commented, the OP seems to have an anti-christian, pro luciferian agenda.

The term "occult" has different meanings, but most usages are related to "hidden" or "secret". Compare also esoteric and exoteric.

To state the Christian church is against the occult is ignorant. The Christian church is clearly against any use of occult knowledge beyond their own influence. Christian teachings, like all religious teachings, have esoteric and exoteric messages. Runciter just presented a good example of a saying of Jesus Christ that can clearly be understood on different levels.

Occult knowledge is simply knowledge that is meant for select groups. It is part of the knowledge that is there for all.

One reason for the historical persecution of druids, witches, shamans, aboriginal peoples etc. is surely to ensure that the people who control occult knowledge are rid of as much competition as possible. "Join us or we will destroy you".

The same applies to the deliberate dumbing down of people, fluoride, vaccines, etc. designed to prevent people from attaining their own individual spiritual connections.

Occult knowledge is not neccesarily "evil" or "bad", but as already observed, knowledge is a double-edged sword. The potential for "good" or "evil" usage is there. What we understood as "good" or "evil" varies, but many of us have a similar understanding, although some would turn that understanding on its head.

To damn the occult is ignorant.

To pronounce it as harmless is sometimes done through ignorance and sometimes through maliciousness.

One of the dangers of some New Age teachings is not that they are wrong or bullshit, although some might be, but that they offer a fast track to knowledge without the necessary awareness of what this knowledge really means, where it comes from or what potential catches might be attached.

Would you give a child the keys to a sports car?

[runciter]

An interesting thread. Although as someone else commented, the OP seems to have an anti-christian, pro luciferian agenda.

The term "occult" has different meanings, but most usages are related to "hidden" or "secret". Compare also esoteric and exoteric.

To state the Christian church is against the occult is ignorant. The Christian church is clearly against any use of occult knowledge beyond their own influence. Christian teachings, like all religious teachings, have esoteric and exoteric messages. Runciter just presented a good example of a saying of Jesus Christ that can clearly be understood on different levels.

Occult knowledge is simply knowledge that is meant for select groups. It is part of the knowledge that is there for all.

One reason for the historical persecution of druids, witches, shamans, aboriginal peoples etc. is surely to ensure that the people who control occult knowledge are rid of as much competition as possible. "Join us or we will destroy you".

The same applies to the deliberate dumbing down of people, fluoride, vaccines, etc. designed to prevent people from attaining their own individual spiritual connections.

Occult knowledge is not neccesarily "evil" or "bad", but as already observed, knowledge is a double-edged sword. The potential for "good" or "evil" usage is there. What we understood as "good" or "evil" varies, but many of us have a similar understanding, although some would turn that understanding on its head.

To damn the occult is ignorant.

To pronounce it as harmless is sometimes done through ignorance and sometimes through maliciousness.

One of the dangers of some New Age teachings is not that they are wrong or bullshit, although some might be, but that they offer a fast track to knowledge without the necessary awareness of what this knowledge really means, where it comes from or what potential catches might be attached.

Would you give a child the keys to a sports car?

it only exists to control and manipulate people, it has no other use, that's all.

[mrerisian]

To except that some cant deal with it so that's that is basically excepting that man kind must stop evolving, which would never work as to many want to evolve..


I guess that's a core message of Christianity, you've been made by God and are a perfect finished product. Hence the problems with understanding/accepting evolution.

I think you know d*mn well what the Occult is

What does that mean?

An interesting thread. Although as someone else commented, the OP seems to have an anti-christian, pro luciferian agenda.

Right. Well, I'm not anti-Christian specifically. More anti-organised religion. Groupthink and group consciousness seems to be a root cause of a lot of the world's problems. The Bible's a good book but I wouldn't want to base my life on it. ;)


It's hidden because most of it involves trying to violate people's free will and being a right evil bastard..

See this is what I'd heard. However the idea that the powers that be have hidden it for our own good doesn't stand up so well nowadays.

[marpat]

Occult means hidden.. and therfore is fundamentally flawed.

Why should anything be hidden?

The only reason is that it could not survive the bright light of attention.

You have to ask what is wrong with it that it cannot stand being seen clearly by the people.

Without secrecy there could never be New World Order.

QED

Most people do not see such things clearly. You could put it plainly before them and they might still get it wrong and misunderstand what its about. Only those with 'eyes' can see. Why cast pearls before the swine? the ignorant just mock what they cant understand or have no power to comprehend so why lay it wide open?

Your post is just full of errors and shallow judgements. Secrecy exists in many areas of life, even in marriages.

[marpat]

it only exists to control and manipulate people, it has no other use, that's all.

And to your mind thats all it will be. You have made a prison for yourself and thrown the keys away.

[marpat]

i only disagree with your idea that reality is always subjective, i would say that it can also be inter-subjective.

we get caught into this subjective / objective dualism, and we forget that we're collectively creating everything :)

So by your thinking we are collectively creating the NWO

[thirdwave]

Occult means hidden.. and therfore is fundamentally flawed.

Why should anything be hidden?

The only reason is that it could not survive the bright light of attention.

You have to ask what is wrong with it that it cannot stand being seen clearly by the people.

Without secrecy there could never be New World Order.

QED

Do you believe in a persons privacy?

If what you want to do is not permitted under certain Laws then it has to be secret...simple as that... in the old days if people wanted to get in a group and do a ritual they would be braking the law, and there for the knowlege has been secret.

that being said, yes some have felt that they would more rather keep it secret so others are more ignorant to it.

[runciter]

And to your mind thats all it will be. You have made a prison for yourself and thrown the keys away.

i don't think so, the difference between your view and mine regards secrecy: i think it's detrimental.

[runciter]

So by your thinking we are collectively creating the NWO

exactly :)

it's the manifestation of our deepest fears, and hopes.

[nectars]

no, it is great if you're convinced that they don't exist :)

nothing to worry about, while the rest of mankind is slowly sinking.

I think you may have mistaken what I was getting at regarding their existence. No "matter".

there is also the external world.

I dont see it as external.

no, it's a baseless statement and it's an insult.

You can be "insulted" all you want, the evidence is all over this forum and the internet in general. I dont exactly call that baseless.

i see where you're coming from: solipsism and moral neutrality.

You can call it solipsism or anything else that suits you, bottom line is thats nothing more than an opinion based on presumtion. As for moral neutrality, you dont know anywhere near enough about me to know that one way or the other, so you dont qualify you to judge it. I do have no interest in living upto the moral standards of others though.

am i looking for something? nlp?

Everyone is whether they know it or not. I cant answer that for you though.

[marpat]

i don't think so, the difference between your view and mine regards secrecy: i think it's detrimental.

Well you would be wrong, no suprise though. Do you think that shamen in tribes tell all the villagers their secrets and how they work their magic?

You fear not knowing, that is the real problem. You are one of those people who think you should have free access to everything you want withut ever having to go looking for it past your screen.

[marpat]

exactly :)

it's the manifestation of our deepest fears, and hopes.

I dont sense you having much of an impact. Your general ignorance is probably helping their cause.

[runciter]

I think you may have mistaken what I was getting at regarding their existence. No "matter".



I dont see it as external.



You can be "insulted" all you want, the evidence is all over this forum and the internet in general. I dont exactly call that baseless.



You can call it solipsism or anything else that suits you, bottom line is thats nothing more than an opinion based on presumtion. As for moral neutrality, you dont know anywhere near enough about me to know that one way or the other, so you dont qualify you to judge it. I do have no interest in living upto the moral standards of others though.



Everyone is whether they know it or not. I cant answer that for you though.

i don't feel insulted, i think you're insulting other people, and maybe you should substantiate your blah blah.

i think it's superfluous to highlight the... absurdity of comparing killing millions of people with expressing a view.

but hey, when zionists rule everything becomes possible, it's the upside down game, blame the victim and so on.

yeah i'm speaking about the people who according to your self-enchantment do not exist :)

[runciter]

Well you would be wrong, no suprise though. Do you think that shamen in tribes tell all the villagers their secrets and how they work their magic?

You fear not knowing, that is the real problem. You are one of those people who think you should have free access to everything you want withut ever having to go looking for it past your screen.

they don't tell their secrets for two reasons:

1. poor linguistic abilities, they can't explain what they do

2. they enjoy having power over other people, and it's understandable

do you see what i mean? look how the idea of knowing some secret boasts your ego.

[runciter]

I dont sense you having much of an impact. Your general ignorance is probably helping their cause.

who are they? :)

[nectars]

So how does it feel to always "be right" then?

[marpat]

they don't tell their secrets for two reasons:

1. poor linguistic abilities, they can't explain what they do

2. they enjoy having power over other people, and it's understandable

do you see what i mean? look how the idea of knowing some secret boasts your ego.

But this is only the way you want to see it. Always in the negative yet you try and tell others what is right. You obsess about everything being used to gain power over others.

How about this:

1) The truth is that mysteries can only be properly understood by personal experience and words cannot define what form the experience will take for each person, so there is no need to tell people

2) People abuse power so you have to safeguard it from reckless people. Lets not pretend that this is not the case

3) Magic is not for everybody so why make it know to everybody

4) Secrets contain power in themselves. If everybody knows they lose some of that virtue.

5) Most people are not interested so why give it to them on a plate? is there no virtue in actually earning teachings as is common in many cultures.

I could go on.

Talking about boosted egos. How many people in the forum have boosted egos because they believe they are privvy to special knowledge about the NWO? they are so egotistical that they regard people who do not share their beliefs as sheeple. It is not secrecy that boosts ego's but a false sense of self importance.

Again you show a lack of knowledge and understanding.

[marpat]

who are they? :)

The NWO. You lack the tools to actually create a positive outcome and you try and tell those who have the tools that they are wrong.

[marpat]

Runciter,

Dont forget that not all of the occult is actually secret. Much of the material which is considered occult is nothing of the sort any more due to it being in general pulication for at least 100 years. The only palces that really have any form of secrecy are organisations. I think they are entitled to protect the privacy of their members as any group is. In a world that is often so anti-occult it is often a bad thing for interest in these fields to be common knowledge. I have know people to get windows broken and being harrassed in the street because of their occult interests.

Tell me then, are these people who want to expand their minds and learn about ancient magical techniques wrong to keep their interests secret? it is often to their detrement that they are honest and open about it. I know people who have been put into print in a negative way by newspapers who got actually checked to see if the individuals had enough money to offer a legal challeneg before proceeding. Once they knew that they were safe from a legal case they just printed what they wanted.

Hysteria always surrounds the occult. When I lived back in my home town a rumour circulated that an occult shop was going to be set up in the town. Next thing you know the papers were full of letters from the local bible thumpers showing their outrage for something that they claimed was targetting the young, etc. Councillors were getting their pictures taken in that street, etc. The circus went on for weeks and the shop never opened.

Often those who are outraged by occultism are nothing but a bunch of ignorant fuck tards.

[runciter]

So how does it feel to always "be right" then?

about what?

[runciter]

But this is only the way you want to see it. Always in the negative yet you try and tell others what is right. You obsess about everything being used to gain power over others.

How about this:

1) The truth is that mysteries can only be properly understood by personal experience and words cannot define what form the experience will take for each person, so there is no need to tell people

2) People abuse power so you have to safeguard it from reckless people. Lets not pretend that this is not the case

3) Magic is not for everybody so why make it know to everybody

4) Secrets contain power in themselves. If everybody knows they lose some of that virtue.

5) Most people are not interested so why give it to them on a plate? is there no virtue in actually earning teachings as is common in many cultures.

I could go on.

Talking about boosted egos. How many people in the forum have boosted egos because they believe they are privvy to special knowledge about the NWO? they are so egotistical that they regard people who do not share their beliefs as sheeple. It is not secrecy that boosts ego's but a false sense of self importance.

Again you show a lack of knowledge and understanding.

i think you gave an accurate description, i would only object that this kind of magic is obsolete.

with a little help from science, non-mainstream science, it is possibile to understand the mysteries.

[runciter]

The NWO. You lack the tools to actually create a positive outcome and you try and tell those who have the tools that they are wrong.

who is behind the nwo?

nobody here is wrong, but some belief systems help the illu to mantain their power.

because they resemble the belief system of the elite.

[shanecmuir]

Most people do not see such things clearly. You could put it plainly before them and they might still get it wrong and misunderstand what its about. Only those with 'eyes' can see. Why cast pearls before the swine? the ignorant just mock what they cant understand or have no power to comprehend so why lay it wide open?

Your post is just full of errors and shallow judgements. Secrecy exists in many areas of life, even in marriages.

"Only those with 'eyes' can see"

Thats the logic of freemasonry.. "not for the profane"

I couldn't disagree with you more.

“Secrecy is the beginning of tyranny.”
Robert A. HEINLEIN

“The very word 'secrecy' is repugnant in a free and open society; and we are as a people inherently and historically opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths and to secret proceedings. We decided long ago that the dangers of excessive and unwarranted concealment of pertinent facts far outweighed the dangers which are cited to justify it.”
John F. KENNEDY in a speech before the American Newspaper Publishers Association (27 April 1961)

[shanecmuir]

Do you believe in a persons privacy?

If what you want to do is not permitted under certain Laws then it has to be secret...simple as that... in the old days if people wanted to get in a group and do a ritual they would be braking the law, and there for the knowlege has been secret.

that being said, yes some have felt that they would more rather keep it secret so others are more ignorant to it.

Although no-one will like the idea of it.. I don't think the world can afford personal privacy anymore.

Imagine for a moment that if anyone told a lie.. they turned purple!

We would basically have 'Peace on Earth' over night.

To me.. that would be a trade-off worth making..

[thelyran]

Although no-one will like the idea of it.. I don't think the world can afford personal privacy anymore.

Imagine for a moment that if anyone told a lie.. they turned purple!

We would basically have 'Peace on Earth' over night.

To me.. that would be a trade-off worth making..

...well I'm glad you did'nt say explode...to quote Icke "then,there would be no
Earth",from a rather infamous interview.

[thirdwave]

Although no-one will like the idea of it.. I don't think the world can afford personal privacy anymore.

how comes?

because the NWO does not require it?


Imagine for a moment that if anyone told a lie.. they turned purple!

We would basically have 'Peace on Earth' over night.

very true, but they don't turn purple... some can look just the same, hence privacy is a comfort should all be permitted.

to much judgement in the world and to many oppressive mind sets to not have privacy, and you cant blame people like child abusers on privacy not being permitted... as that is another cause all together.

In this world at the moment, If I could not have privacy I would end my life to get it.

To me.. that would be a trade-off worth making..
if we all turned purple, then it would certainly put a slant on things and over time would work... we would soon discover a few home truths thats for sure.

[runciter]

how comes?

because the NWO does not require it?




very true, but they don't turn purple... some can look just the same, hence privacy is a comfort should all be permitted.

to much judgement in the world and to many oppressive mind sets to not have privacy, and you cant blame people like child abusers on privacy not being permitted... as that is another cause all together.

In this world at the moment, If I could not have privacy I would end my life to get it.


if we all turned purple, then it would certainly put a slant on things and over time would work... we would soon discover a few home truths thats for sure.

it's not technology that will render deception impossible, but something similar to "turning purple".

[thirdwave]

it's not technology that will render deception impossible, but something similar to "turning purple".

who said anything about technology?

[runciter]

who said anything about technology?

i wrote it because you mentioned the nwo: their idea of no privacy is based on technology.

and of course it would only apply to ordinary people, and not to the rulers (known and hidden).

i think shane's view may sound a bit too extreme, but the essence is the "impossibility to deceive".

there's nothing wrong with individual privacy, it's an essential part of a person's life.

[thirdwave]

i wrote it because you mentioned the nwo: their idea of no privacy is based on technology.
.

privacy is a physical thing.. not really talking about how they do it... just the morals of doing such a thing..

[runciter]

privacy is a physical thing.. not really talking about how they do it... just the morals of doing such a thing..

i think the absence of individual privacy would be a nightmare, we do need a "private room" in this reality.

just my personal point of view, maybe we don't disagree too much on this.

[thirdwave]

i think the absence of individual privacy would be a nightmare, we do need a "private room" in this reality.

just my personal point of view, maybe we don't disagree too much on this.

no, it does not seem that way!

as long as there are people who Can hide, then all should have the privilege... its kind of an all or nothing thing...

[anthony65]

I guess that's a core message of Christianity, you've been made by God and are a perfect finished product. Hence the problems with understanding/accepting evolution.



What does that mean?



Right. Well, I'm not anti-Christian specifically. More anti-organised religion. Groupthink and group consciousness seems to be a root cause of a lot of the world's problems. The Bible's a good book but I wouldn't want to base my life on it. ;)



See this is what I'd heard. However the idea that the powers that be have hidden it for our own good doesn't stand up so well nowadays.

Right. Well, I'm not anti-Christian specifically. More anti-organised religion. Groupthink and group consciousness seems to be a root cause of a lot of the world's problems. The Bible's a good book but I wouldn't want to base my life on it. ;)

This was in response to a comment I made.

Thanks. I feel very much the same.

The group think and group consciousness observations are interesting!

[marpat]

"Only those with 'eyes' can see"

Thats the logic of freemasonry.. "not for the profane"

I couldn't disagree with you more.

“Secrecy is the beginning of tyranny.”
Robert A. HEINLEIN

“The very word 'secrecy' is repugnant in a free and open society; and we are as a people inherently and historically opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths and to secret proceedings. We decided long ago that the dangers of excessive and unwarranted concealment of pertinent facts far outweighed the dangers which are cited to justify it.”
John F. KENNEDY in a speech before the American Newspaper Publishers Association (27 April 1961)

Politicians always say stuff that will get them the vote.

When I said only those with eyes can see I meant those who actually had the capacity for inner understanding, which you seem to lack judging by your response

[marpat]

i think you gave an accurate description, i would only object that this kind of magic is obsolete.

with a little help from science, non-mainstream science, it is possibile to understand the mysteries.

Is there any difference between the mysteries and science? Dont forget Crowleys was fully into the achievement of religion by the method of science.

Only those with dualistic mind set see a division between science and magic.

[runciter]

Is there any difference between the mysteries and science? Dont forget Crowleys was fully into the achievement of religion by the method of science.

Only those with dualistic mind set see a division between science and magic.

i see no division, and i have no great sympathy for dualistic views of any kind.

science, magic, and even what we often call "spirituality", can be seen as one thing.

[runciter]

Runciter,

Dont forget that not all of the occult is actually secret. Much of the material which is considered occult is nothing of the sort any more due to it being in general pulication for at least 100 years. The only palces that really have any form of secrecy are organisations. I think they are entitled to protect the privacy of their members as any group is. In a world that is often so anti-occult it is often a bad thing for interest in these fields to be common knowledge. I have know people to get windows broken and being harrassed in the street because of their occult interests.

Tell me then, are these people who want to expand their minds and learn about ancient magical techniques wrong to keep their interests secret? it is often to their detrement that they are honest and open about it. I know people who have been put into print in a negative way by newspapers who got actually checked to see if the individuals had enough money to offer a legal challeneg before proceeding. Once they knew that they were safe from a legal case they just printed what they wanted.

Hysteria always surrounds the occult. When I lived back in my home town a rumour circulated that an occult shop was going to be set up in the town. Next thing you know the papers were full of letters from the local bible thumpers showing their outrage for something that they claimed was targetting the young, etc. Councillors were getting their pictures taken in that street, etc. The circus went on for weeks and the shop never opened.

Often those who are outraged by occultism are nothing but a bunch of ignorant fuck tards.

yes, i can understand why secrecy has been somehow necessary for a long time.

maybe occultists and non-occultists will finally understand each other, who knows?

[nectars]

about what?

Doesn't matter, enjoy.

Is there any difference between the mysteries and science? Dont forget Crowleys was fully into the achievement of religion by the method of science.

Only those with dualistic mind set see a division between science and magic.

Indeed they do. Theres no difference between the two; the only difference is that science is still so far behind its out of sight.

[runciter]

Doesn't matter, enjoy.



Indeed they do. Theres no difference between the two; the only difference is that science is still so far behind its out of sight.

enjoy what?

not all science is so far behind, you'd be surprised by some discoveries if you weren't entrapped in your private reality.

[mrerisian]

The group think and group consciousness observations are interesting!

Thanks man. I believe occultists seem to put an emphasis on individual action above conforming with the herd. If we take Christianity as an example, Jesus is the shepherd and Christians are the sheep. You prey to your shepherd to sort out your problems. Occultists seem to sort it out themselves.

I might be wrong though, very new to occult thinking. Seems a little silly in places.

[flereous]

Christians FEAR the Occult. They dont like the fact that its possible for humans to have basically the same power as their God. They dont like that we know things. And they are afraid of the fact that we basically have power over them.
Im Dark Pagan :)

[runciter]

Christians FEAR the Occult. They dont like the fact that its possible for humans to have basically the same power as their God. They dont like that we know things. And they are afraid of the fact that we basically have power over them.
Im Dark Pagan :)

do you realize that the illuminati are occultists and have massacred millions of people, while playing god?

[thirdwave]

do you realize that the illuminati are occultists and have massacred millions of people, while playing god?

lol, read what you just said lol

[thirdwave]

Christians FEAR the Occult. They dont like the fact that its possible for humans to have basically the same power as their God. They dont like that we know things. And they are afraid of the fact that we basically have power over them.
Im Dark Pagan :)

spot on.

[runciter]

spot on.

the occult hierarchy makes little amateurish wizards subservient to the genocidal elite.

[mrerisian]

So in a way it's a bit like Christianity/Islam/Judaism?

[flereous]

do you realize that the illuminati are occultists and have massacred millions of people, while playing god?

Lol do you realize what you just typed? "while playing god"
HELLO thats my point. Christians fear us because we can do the same thing that their God can.
By the way, I <3 the Illuminati.

[runciter]

Lol do you realize what you just typed? "while playing god"
HELLO thats my point. Christians fear us because we can do the same thing that their God can.
By the way, I <3 the Illuminati.

maybe billions, if we consider deaths by starvation and disease (too many of them are avoidable).

your point is that the occult can give you the "power" and cold-bloodedness to exterminate people?

[thirdwave]

the occult hierarchy


hu??

lol...

you know what your talking about!

lol

makes little amateurish wizards subservient to the genocidal elite.

mainly through religion.

[thirdwave]

So in a way it's a bit like Christianity/Islam/Judaism?

only there are no set laws, no particular god to serve of worship.. you create your own rituals....

And everyone can think and be as they wish....

[runciter]

hu??

lol...

you know what your talking about!

lol


mainly through religion.

i gave an explanation to your secret admiration for the elite.

[thirdwave]

i gave an explanation to your secret admiration for the elite.

But you don't need to give me an explanation for your fantasies... as I could not give a flying fuck!

:)

to me it just sounded like the usual stuff you puke out.

[marpat]

maybe billions, if we consider deaths by starvation and disease (too many of them are avoidable).

your point is that the occult can give you the "power" and cold-bloodedness to exterminate people?

Not really. If the universe is a continuity then all power must be from the same source ultimately. It is what you do with it that matters.

If the universe is not a continuity then 'god' must be dualistic and therefore evil.

[runciter]

But you don't need to give me an explanation for your fantasies... as I could not give a flying fuck!

:)

to me it just sounded like the usual stuff you puke out.

the illuminati are higher than you in the occult hierarchy, so you feel instinctively submissive.

[runciter]

Not really. If the universe is a continuity then all power must be from the same source ultimately. It is what you do with it that matters.

If the universe is not a continuity then 'god' must be dualistic and therefore evil.

they are stealing power from ordinary people using deception, the universe gives us freedom do do that.

[marpat]

they are stealing power from ordinary people using deception, the universe gives us freedom do do that.

And you have the freedom to stop that too. Perhaps more people should get magickal training to prevent such theft.

What is an ordinary person anyway? somebody who does not think in terms of consciousness and is more interested in booze and football rather than what is going on in their world? do ordinary people have any real power that could be stolen? if so then why do they seem utterly incapable of using it?

And who are 'they' anyway? is this where you come up with some blanket group that covers just about anybody who has ever studied magic? there are some people who think they are awakened but who are utterly deceived by their own errors and lack of knowledge so who has stoledn their power by using deception? in the Biggest Secret Icke claims and Egyptian vase is an alien and when I pointed this out there were still a number of people defending Icke and saying it looks like an alien so does that mean Icke has stolen power from them by deceipt as they are prepared to submit common sense and the powers of observation to something that icke has claimed, even though it is clearly wrong, deliberate or not. This is not to take a shot at Icke but just an illustration of how such accusations can be applied to even those who are trying to uncover truth and those that believe them even in the face of corrective evidence.

[nihil]

in the Biggest Secret Icke claims and Egyptian vase is an alien and when I pointed this out there were still a number of people defending Icke and saying it looks like an alien so does that mean Icke has stolen power from them by deceipt as they are prepared to submit common sense and the powers of observation to something that icke has claimed, even though it is clearly wrong, deliberate or not.

What does should it mean ??

[runciter]

And you have the freedom to stop that too. Perhaps more people should get magickal training to prevent such theft.

yes, if you mean an understanding of the relation between the inner world and the outer.

What is an ordinary person anyway? somebody who does not think in terms of consciousness and is more interested in booze and football rather than what is going on in their world? do ordinary people have any real power that could be stolen? if so then why do they seem utterly incapable of using it?

an ordinary person is someone who has no special privilege, given by birth or by "initiation".

And who are 'they' anyway? is this where you come up with some blanket group that covers just about anybody who has ever studied magic? there are some people who think they are awakened but who are utterly deceived by their own errors and lack of knowledge so who has stoledn their power by using deception?

the stealing of energies works on the material plane, in the first place: time, money, efforts.

[marpat]

yes, if you mean an understanding of the relation between the inner world and the outer.



an ordinary person is someone who has no special privilege, given by birth or by "initiation".



the stealing of energies works on the material plane, in the first place: time, money, efforts.

What does intitation give people in terms of privelege? going through some initiations has not given me any special priveleges and I know people further on who dont have anything as such to show for it. Advancement on the path is not about gaining priveleges.

So if the elite steal power from people, in the manner you say, then the ruling classes must have an immense amount of energy at their disposal yet all that power does not help somebody like Gordon Brown from being a weak political failure, or Margaret Thatches from having Alzheimers disease. Does this mean that people who are on the dole, who dont give their time money and effort to the elite, are people of great power? it certainly does not seem that way to me.

[marpat]

What does should it mean ??

Read the full post and then you will see the context of what I mean.

[runciter]

What does intitation give people in terms of privelege? going through some initiations has not given me any special priveleges and I know people further on who dont have anything as such to show for it. Advancement on the path is not about gaining priveleges.

it depends on what secret society, sect or group you're initiated into, i guess.

So if the elite steal power from people, in the manner you say, then the ruling classes must have an immense amount of energy at their disposal yet all that power does not help somebody like Gordon Brown from being a weak political failure, or Margaret Thatches from having Alzheimers disease. Does this mean that people who are on the dole, who dont give their time money and effort to the elite, are people of great power? it certainly does not seem that way to me.

the power flows to the top of the pyramid, and it's used to advance the nwo plan.

[marpat]

it depends on what secret society, sect or group you're initiated into, i guess.



the power flows to the top of the pyramid, and it's used to advance the nwo plan.

Said who? and who directs the power? on what authority do you base these claims?

You dont feel like commenting on all the other stuff I mention?

[thirdwave]

the illuminati are higher than you in the occult hierarchy, so you feel instinctively submissive.

what the fuck is the "occult hierachy"?????

[runciter]

Said who? and who directs the power? on what authority do you base these claims?

You dont feel like commenting on all the other stuff I mention?

the people who create money are the ultimate manipulators, as far as i'm concerned.

what do you want me to comment on? i agree with some things you wrote, on brown etc.

[marpat]

the illuminati are higher than you in the occult hierarchy, so you feel instinctively submissive.

Although you direct this to TW I want to add something.

Is there an occult heirarchy? it is true that organisations have grades and levels but you cannot go from outer darkness to total inner light in one step, no with any safety anyway. This is the reason for heirachies and levels, to gradually awaken the power of the souls within an individual. You speak as if there is one overall heirarchy. If this is what you mean then can you give some credible evidence to support that, perhaps highlighting the sources you have accessed.

I think a real problem on this subject is that too many people think that everything is a method of manipulation and control. People who see suspicion in every thing will never get an understanding of spiritual teachings because they approach it with the wroing frame of mind, or key.

[marpat]

the people who create money are the ultimate manipulators, as far as i'm concerned.

what do you want me to comment on? i agree with some things you wrote, on brown etc.

And about people on the dole? they do not give their time adn effort to the system but are hardly examples of people with power, at least its doesnt look like that.

People who create money may be the ultimate manipulators but this is nothing to do with occultism. True they could use some form of it if they wanted but the human desire for wealth and power is enough to get them what they want through using financial power. They dont need magic to get money and material power, they just need to keep people desring material things and spending money.

They way I see it black magic, if they actually use it, is self defeating and while it may appear to give power quickly has a heavy price. That is why occult lodges constantly remind people not to get invovled with it. Even Crowley was against it if you read his books.

[runciter]

what the fuck is the "occult hierachy"?????

you can take it as a metaphor, it's about having more or less "occult power".

[marpat]

you can take it as a metaphor, it's about having more or less "occult power".

But that does not makes sense at all. You imply that it is all from one negative source when this is completely false. When jesus used his occult powers to change water into wine then where did he fit in? perhaps at the top of their pyramid?

These blanket expression you use are just totally misleading and pointless. Not only that but they serve to turn people against you who could and would be very helpful in the fight against spiritual evil in high places.

[runciter]

Although you direct this to TW I want to add something.

Is there an occult heirarchy? it is true that organisations have grades and levels but you cannot go from outer darkness to total inner light in one step, no with any safety anyway. This is the reason for heirachies and levels, to gradually awaken the power of the souls within an individual. You speak as if there is one overall heirarchy. If this is what you mean then can you give some credible evidence to support that, perhaps highlighting the sources you have accessed.

I think a real problem on this subject is that too many people think that everything is a method of manipulation and control. People who see suspicion in every thing will never get an understanding of spiritual teachings because they approach it with the wroing frame of mind, or key.

i've just replied to thirdwave, i was referring to the extent of someone's "occult power".

the illuminati, as an organized secret sect, are currently far more powerful than anyone of us.

i partially agree with the last paragraph, even if i have a tendency to see manipulation everywhere.

[runciter]

And about people on the dole? they do not give their time adn effort to the system but are hardly examples of people with power, at least its doesnt look like that.

People who create money may be the ultimate manipulators but this is nothing to do with occultism. True they could use some form of it if they wanted but the human desire for wealth and power is enough to get them what they want through using financial power. They dont need magic to get money and material power, they just need to keep people desring material things and spending money.

They way I see it black magic, if they actually use it, is self defeating and while it may appear to give power quickly has a heavy price. That is why occult lodges constantly remind people not to get invovled with it. Even Crowley was against it if you read his books.

people on the dole are somehow oustide of the system, they are useless from its point of view.

regarding the bankers, you shouldn't forget that the same group controls the media and hollywood.

i don't know if they're using black magic as you intend it, but they're allegedly involved in blood rituals.

[marpat]

i've just replied to thirdwave, i was referring to the extent of someone's "occult power".

the illuminati, as an organized secret sect, are currently far more powerful than anyone of us.

i partially agree with the last paragraph, even if i have a tendency to see manipulation everywhere.

Who said the illuminati are more powerful? they may have the financial power but this does not mean they have spiritual power. They may even have some magical power but this does not mean they are the most powerful people. If they use black magic then that will only give a temporary fix. Because such magic is out of phase with the currents of life those who use it find themselves going against the flow of the universe. In time they are going to weaken, being only human. This is why I personally dont worry to much about such things as those people will fight against the universe. Even christ said, resist not evil, because those that oppose the currents of life will eventually be overcome by it.

[marpat]

people on the dole are somehow oustide of the system, they are useless from its point of view.

regarding the bankers, you shouldn't forget that the same group controls the media and hollywood.

i don't know if they're using black magic as you intend it, but they're allegedly involved in blood rituals.

Yes but they are still people with energy and minds ( dole people I mean). They can still create events in the world and they can still influence those within the system.

Credo Muttwa uses blood ritual (or at least I expect he would, being a zulu shaman) so does that make him one of them too? christianity uses a form of blood ritual too. I guess it would depend on what sort of blood ritual you mean. Such methods only serve to give power boosts for magical work.

[runciter]

Who said the illuminati are more powerful? they may have the financial power but this does not mean they have spiritual power. They may even have some magical power but this does not mean they are the most powerful people. If they use black magic then that will only give a temporary fix. Because such magic is out of phase with the currents of life those who use it find themselves going against the flow of the universe. In time they are going to weaken, being only human. This is why I personally dont worry to much about such things as those people will fight against the universe. Even christ said, resist not evil, because those that oppose the currents of life will eventually be overcome by it.

this was an amazing post :)

[thirdwave]

you can take it as a metaphor, it's about having more or less "occult power".

how do you know who has the most occult power??

lol

[marpat]

this was an amazing post :)

Complement accepted, thank you

[runciter]

But that does not makes sense at all. You imply that it is all from one negative source when this is completely false. When jesus used his occult powers to change water into wine then where did he fit in? perhaps at the top of their pyramid?

These blanket expression you use are just totally misleading and pointless. Not only that but they serve to turn people against you who could and would be very helpful in the fight against spiritual evil in high places.

i have a tendency to give negative connotations to the word occult, for some reason.

i will try to think about it as "not in plain view" and "inner", instead of "secret" or "hidden".

[runciter]

how do you know who has the most occult power??

lol

you're right, i can only be sure about material power, based on secrecy.

i wasn't speaking of proper "magic power", i don't know if they really have some.

[marpat]

i have a tendency to give negative connotations to the word occult, for some reason.

i will try to think about it as "not in plain view" and "inner", instead of "secret" or "hidden".

People actually use magical method in everyday life. One basic formula is desire (which provide the raw energy)-will (which directs the energy)-manifestation. People desire stuff, they apply will to achieve it, then they get it. The methods of magic are not that far removed from what people do naturally it is only the intent and goal that truly differ.

[limelady]

Who said the illuminati are more powerful? they may have the financial power but this does not mean they have spiritual power. They may even have some magical power but this does not mean they are the most powerful people. If they use black magic then that will only give a temporary fix. Because such magic is out of phase with the currents of life those who use it find themselves going against the flow of the universe. In time they are going to weaken, being only human. This is why I personally dont worry to much about such things as those people will fight against the universe. Even christ said, resist not evil, because those that oppose the currents of life will eventually be overcome by it.

I agree with runciter, that is a great post Marpat. :)


What you fight, you become. - David Icke

[marpat]

I agree with runciter, that is a great post Marpat. :)


What you fight, you become. - David Icke

Dont agree with me people, I might get a reputation :D

[limelady]

Dont agree with me people, I might get a reputation :D

Lol....well I think you already have one of sorts. But who knows, perhaps
we can soften that somewhat? ;)



But then again....

:D

[thirdwave]

you're right, i can only be sure about material power, based on secrecy.

i wasn't speaking of proper "magic power", i don't know if they really have some.

what has material power got to do with occult knowledge?

and everyone has "magic power"...

[thirdwave]

I agree with runciter, that is a great post Marpat. :)


What you fight, you become. - David Icke

I agree, one of the segments of the bible that show someone somewhere had something to say...

[marpat]

Lol....well I think you already have one of sorts. But who knows, perhaps
we can soften that somewhat? ;)



But then again....

:D

Story of my life. I'm sure I take after Esau, my hand being against every man :D

[kweli]

I agree with runciter, that is a great post Marpat. :)


What you fight, you become. - David Icke

Yikes! I agree too - is this a new Marpat we see?

Anyways.. cheers for your imput fella, really gave me food for thought.

[marpat]

Yikes! I agree too - is this a new Marpat we see?

Anyways.. cheers for your imput fella, really gave me food for thought.

Nope, what I posted before has always been my stance on things such as balck magick. I got loads more of that if people want it :D

[flereous]

maybe billions, if we consider deaths by starvation and disease (too many of them are avoidable).

your point is that the occult can give you the "power" and cold-bloodedness to exterminate people?

No, my point is the Occult gives you power. What you do with it is based off of your personality. Religion doesnt have anything to do with what kind of person you are. There are Catholics who kill, and Satanists who help the less fortunate. Religion doesn't define who you are.

[killuminatiday]

Although no-one will like the idea of it.. I don't think the world can afford personal privacy anymore.

Imagine for a moment that if anyone told a lie.. they turned purple!

We would basically have 'Peace on Earth' over night.

To me.. that would be a trade-off worth making..

it is just my opinion but you are wrong, the world can certainly afford privacy(not to be confused with secrecy). your purple theory would never work because not all lies are created equal.

for instance if I tell my girlfriend "no way honey your ass doesnt look fat at all in that dress" then yes I am most likely lying but who is gonna give a fuck if they turn purple cuz of a lie like this, especially since all your friends will be purple for the same reason(if they are smart anyway:D). Im also guessing most women wont like being purple but in the end they wont give a shit if they turn purple because they said "nah babe its the biggest I ever had"

[edelweiss pirate]

No, my point is the Occult gives you power. What you do with it is based off of your personality. Religion doesnt have anything to do with what kind of person you are. There are Catholics who kill, and Satanists who help the less fortunate. Religion doesn't define who you are.



There are people who communicate with hidden demons/ET's and they recruit those who are ignorance of their existence with empty and vague promises until they are too deeply involved and have seen too much to back out.

If, when you say 'power' you are talking about power over other people then you ARE Satan.

A happy balanced individual has no need for power over anybody but themselves.

[thirdwave]

No, my point is the Occult gives you power. What you do with it is based off of your personality. Religion doesnt have anything to do with what kind of person you are. There are Catholics who kill, and Satanists who help the less fortunate. Religion doesn't define who you are.

Basically the occult is no more dangerous than fire.. and just as useful...

what it comes down to is that humanity are lousy with it.. and thus its dangerous..

Quantum physics is starting to show how magic can actually be a science now...

the truth will come out someday.. I just hope we are all free enough to benefit from it when it does, rather than a select few.

I guess nature cant be beat at the end of the day.

[rhydra]

Basically the occult is no more dangerous than fire.. and just as useful...

what it comes down to is that humanity are lousy with it.. and thus its dangerous..

Quantum physics is starting to show how magic can actually be a science now...

the truth will come out someday.. I just hope we are all free enough to benefit from it when it does, rather than a select few.

I guess nature cant be beat at the end of the day.

Hear hear. The more I hear the little religious people warning about "the Occult" OMG teh Devil Satan and all that stuff... The more I am interested in it. :D

[killuminatiday]

Hear hear. The more I hear the little religious people warning about "the Occult" OMG teh Devil Satan and all that stuff... The more I am interested in it. :D

I think Im on the other side of that coin, I have never truly known what the occult was about and still dont but all my life I heard people associate it with the devil and because I have been athiest up until recently all the devil talk was what turned me off to it and made me think it was bull shit.

after reading this thread and a couple others and conversating with a guy I work with who seems to know a lil bit about the occult(although I must say he is very hit and miss with some of his advice on everything so I just mostly nod and smile) I have to say it doesnt seem to me the occult is really based on god or the devil so much as its based on the users intent.

I am so intrigued now by the occult that I am going to try and learn as much as I can now, with that said if anyone with absolute knowledge on the subject wouldnt mind pointing this noob in the right direction it would be greatly appreciated. if anyone can suggest some legit beginners reading material and perhaps some info on what I should stay away from(because its fake) then I would also appreciate that.

[thirdwave]

Hear hear. The more I hear the little religious people warning about "the Occult" OMG teh Devil Satan and all that stuff... The more I am interested in it. :D

it was defiantly a motivation for me to research more... I think religion is apart of the occult but is all about containment rather than salvation.

[edelweiss pirate]

it was defiantly a motivation for me to research more... I think religion is apart of the occult but is all about containment rather than salvation.

Would you care to tell us what you know or even mean by occult salvation?

I'm very curious. A lot of people here bang the drum for the occult but none of them actually tell you anything about it.

I think the fact that they revere Aliester Crowley should be warning enough. If not, you've only your self to blame when the candles go out and you're hearing voices and shadows moving in the corner of your eyes.......


Unlike many people here I actually reached an advanced stage. I had astral images and received astral communication.

It's all very well when you do as you're told and play ball but try doing something 'they' don't want you to and they send the demons after you. Imagine everytime you closed your eyes you see grey figures with burning eyes haunting your mind. You open your eyes and you feel a cold wind blowing across your skin, but the windows are closed. You close your eyes again to try to sleep and the cold breeze becomes visible as a raging demon again. So even when awake and you feel a cold breeze you know you're being haunted.

I've God, Jesus and weed to thank for getting my ass out of that mess.

Like I said, just you wait till the candles blow out.

Won't be quite the power picnic you bargained for.


Just some free friendly advice for y'all.


I could tell you all you need to know about the occult and then your curiosity will be satisfied without your curiosity killing the cat.

[the perfect one]

Would you care to tell us what you know or even mean by occult salvation?

I'm very curious. A lot of people here bang the drum for the occult but none of them actually tell you anything about it.

I think the fact that they revere Aliester Crowley should be warning enough. If not, you've only your self to blame when the candles go out and you're hearing voices and shadows moving in the corner of your eyes.......


Unlike many people here I actually reached an advanced stage. I had astral images and received astral communication.

It's all very well when you do as you're told and play ball but try doing something 'they' don't want you to and they send the demons after you. Imagine everytime you closed your eyes you see grey figures with burning eyes haunting your mind. You open your eyes and you feel a cold wind blowing across your skin, but the windows are closed. You close your eyes again to try to sleep and the cold breeze becomes visible as a raging demon again. So even when awake and you feel a cold breeze you know you're being haunted.

I've God, Jesus and weed to thank for getting my ass out of that mess.

Like I said, just you wait till the candles blow out.

Won't be quite the power picnic you bargained for.


Just some free friendly advice for y'all.


I could tell you all you need to know about the occult and then your curiosity will be satisfied without your curiosity killing the cat.

Edleweiss ,I think I've figured out how they send the "spirits" after a person. It's by psychic ability. I really believe that .Yes Jesus saved me too. Just my mind praying to him helped. It's the psychic connection to Jesus. IMHO

[remium]

A happy balanced individual has no need for power over anybody but themselves.

And that IMO is the most truthful statement on this thread!!!

I believe there are many paths that start of at the foot of the 'occult mountain' with many subsidery paths or pitfalls that lead to nowhere. These 'crossroads' so to speak are trials of only your integrity, get caught up in these sideroutes and your stuck there until you realize ones own error. Contemplate at these crossroads and study adepts of the past that have been in the same predicament, but ultimately feel whats true to yourself. And these dead ends can be countered before your fall. As you follow the path further up the 'mountain', the pitfalls span out and eventually disperse and all the paths join to reach the peak. If anyone should get there before me, get the kettle on, im gonna be parched!!!

:)

[motokeiru]

Nothing wrong with seeking knowledge and if it's hidden from us we definitely should be looking for it.

[edelweiss pirate]

Nothing wrong with seeking knowledge and if it's hidden from us we definitely should be looking for it.

It isn't hidden, it's hoarded and by whom and why?

That's the question you need to ask.

The answer is because this information is used to dominate and exercise power over others because they masons et al have hoarded it in order that they can operate from a position of superior knowledge.


In order to find what they have hidden one has little choice but to enter their lair and seek the truth on their terms.

BTW the occult world is a perception, or a vibratory frequency, it is actually rigorously policed by 'them' ie Masons and discarnate spirits. Few people can continually operate behind enemy lines like this without being dominated by the better organised cults or being terrorised by spirits themselves.


Anyway, I am still waiting for an intelligent debate and good information from the occultists cheerleaders themselves, but as you have shown, it is seldom forthcoming. Just the same old tired platitudes.

[thirdwave]

Would you care to tell us what you know or even mean by occult salvation?

The same as any spiritual salvation, where you feel a connection to the universe and a sense of empowerment in your being.

an art where through the oppression and troubles society has created you can find clarification and cause effect, and be effective... something the vast majority of humans don't have.

I'm very curious. A lot of people here bang the drum for the occult but none of them actually tell you anything about it.
Im shocked to hear you say this. I find you have very often attacked those who have any form of an occult influence in their lives..

I think there are many here who explain in very great detail what its about, but in many cases due to such witch hunts out there its also viewed as a pointless exercise.

The bible is an occult document, crammed full of occult symbolic reference's to the lower degree's of Jesus riding on a Donkey to riding out on a white horse... to the astrological references ... and it goes on and on....

Yet many will defend it with a passion and claim that the occult is so hidden and wrong.

The occult is simply a blue print... and map for humans to interact with science on the most deep level... an art of the mind....

Maps are not evil. passengers are.

the reason so many attack those with maps is because they are not very good at reading them and they don't like the idea of others seeing something they cant...

This is a strong problem among humanity, the ego is their own enemy and not only makes them so easy to control and manipulate but also to pic fault in.

this is the main issue that has surrounded the ocult... people unable to face truth, or to deal with their own minds, and there for brand such things evil.

hence education was always limited to those who could be trusted, or those devious enough to work it out keep it to them selves and use it for their own ego...

I think the fact that they revere Aliester Crowley should be warning enough. If not, you've only your self to blame when the candles go out and you're hearing voices and shadows moving in the corner of your eyes.......

lol, those are your voices dude, not mine. :)

Crowley was a fantastic and influential author, and nothing you or anyone says will change that fact, as here we sit in 2010 with his name being more respected than it ever was...

Crowley has not even been the most influential person for me and my research .. But it is certainly the most intriguing when faced with such venom from people who clearly cant handle him. (venom based on no real facts or evidence of his wrong doings).. He is worth reading for that alone.

Unlike many people here I actually reached an advanced stage. I had astral images and received astral communication.
I cant comment on what you say you have been through, I can only comment on your fruits. With all due respect, while you occasionally come across as an inteligent person, some of the logical and baseless things you come out with regarding the occult just leads me to believe you are a person who simply gets freaked out at things that are not of what we would call this "reality".

You also fail to grasp the fact that we are all individuals are many not always share the same experiences..

I feel a mistake that many people who become "enlightened" thing.. "i am god" ... "i know the devil" ... "my light is the true light" ..... "i know the truth" ...

when in reality there are many parallel truths and its about time people started to see this.


You often compare your awareness and spiritual achievements to others as if its a race... Which is not the case.. and is perhaps a sign why you have also suffered many negative experiences.



It's all very well when you do as you're told and play ball but try doing something 'they' don't want you to and they send the demons after you.

I don't think mind controlled people doing what they are told are ok, I think they are in a terrible state and there are far from them selves...

"send the demons after you" ...?

Well they also have armies they send after people... police... and so on..

should we all kill our selves or try and compete?


Imagine everytime you closed your eyes you see grey figures with burning eyes haunting your mind. You open your eyes and you feel a cold wind blowing across your skin, but the windows are closed. You close your eyes again to try to sleep and the cold breeze becomes visible as a raging demon again. So even when awake and you feel a cold breeze you know you're being haunted.
I've God, Jesus and weed to thank for getting my ass out of that mess.
You may well have, but not all.

Like I said, just you wait till the candles blow out.
I am not waiting for anything lol

such talk is like close to a psychic attack in its self ! :eek:

I have been in some very frightening moments my self, but I do not really panic and just made friends with em ;)

and no i don't mean i signed a contract, I just sat down and had a drink with em and worked out what their problem was.. :)

Won't be quite the power picnic you bargained for.
Bargains? ... ahh so you made a bargain?


Just some free friendly advice for y'all.
lol, well just as well you did not charge!


I could tell you all you need to know about the occult and then your curiosity will be satisfied without your curiosity killing the cat.
Really??? ...

I bet you wont though!, you will just slide off mysteriously with spooky music in the back ground.... :)

[edelweiss pirate]

I think the point is Wave that I have travelled the roads you have only read about and that I am willing to fill in the map that you seem to be blindly following with a few markers such as 'here be dragons' etc.

Again I read your post and see nothing of substance, no examples of anything you seem to have experienced. Just a sort of masonic tit for tat, an endless 'no you're wrong' type thing. Wave, please tell me something INTERESTING, not this endless 'I'm right and you're wrong but I can't or am not allowed to tell you why'.


Anyway, each to their own. But like I say, I have observed certain facts about the occult world and merely share them with people who may not know what dangers lie ahead.


It seems odd that you feel the need to itemise every point I make and try to attack it or subvert it somehow..

Why? They are my observations and my experience.

I would like to hear about your experiences one day Wave..... Then we could actually talk as equals who have had mystical experiences. Until then I very much suspect that either you have not had any or are not allowed to talk about them.

[thirdwave]

I think the point is Wave that I have travelled the roads you have only read about and that I am willing to fill in the map that you seem to be blindly following with a few markers such as 'here be dragons' etc.

But my point is I do not just believe any old tom dick and harry because they make claims..

I go by

a, my experiences
b, my research
c, my intuition
d, my opinion

You seem to imply one should take your experiences over ones own, which if you even put aside the extreme arrogance of that, its mind boggling.

I feel forced to think that you are not even telling the truth and are simply fear mongering as the bible does. something you support while having the cheek to degrade my inspirations..

I dont know so cant claim it as fact (like some others do) But I can say with confidence that I am not in anyway inspired by any of your experiences, and nothing you say about the occult resonates with me in the slightest.

And as patronising as it sounds, from my perspective you do not come across as a person who should medal with the occult as it would be like giving a 5 year old a razor blade.... the paranoia and dogmatic mind set that you project just screams out trouble, now that is free advice.


Again I read your post and see nothing of substance, no examples of anything you seem to have experienced. Just a sort of masonic tit for tat, an endless 'no you're wrong' type thing. Wave, please tell me something INTERESTING, not this endless 'I'm right and you're wrong but I can't or am not allowed to tell you why'.

I have no intention of telling you what I have personally experienced, that's my business... I will tell those who I choose to tell. I have not closed my eyes and seen demons who haunt me... and not heard evil voices in my head... (well apart from the usual ones :) ) .. made no agreements with anyone.. and have not offered my soul to anyone.. have felt negative and positive vibrations ... and have over all taken great inspiration.

I can tell you that much, if its not enough, you should not be so nosy :).


Anyway, each to their own.
lol! .. ahhh its in their somewhere!

But like I say

.... ahh well..

, I have observed certain facts about the occult world and merely share them with people who may not know what dangers lie ahead.
Sharing is when you offer it, not impose it and use it as a replacement.


It seems odd that you feel the need to itemise every point I make and try to attack it or subvert it somehow..
I have lots and lots to say.

But I have not attacked anything, I am simply defending my and others right to be inspired by magic and divination... something you condemn and degrade.

Why? They are my observations and my experience.

YOUR.... YOUR.....

there are many minds...


I would like to hear about your experiences one day Wave.... Why? .. you seem to know so much about me?... ar you starting to think maybe you should find out more in order to justify your conclusions?.. I think so! :)


. Then we could actually talk as equals who have had mystical experiences. Until then I very much suspect that either you have not had any or are not allowed to talk about them.
Its a Secret ;), I guess I will just have to play tea boy for now! lol

[edelweiss pirate]

Wave, I really don't care. There's something trully nauseating about your posts. I find whatever you write just seems 'wrong' and 'euuuuuch!' I've made my point. I'd stick you on ignore if I could but I can't because you're a mod.

But it seems I have made the mistake of engaging you in debate. I always regret it, it's kind of like what I imagine talking to a psychopath to be like. No matter how hard you try to find the 'real person' that must exist somewhere, you just accept that somehow, maybe there isn't one. No self awarenes, no reflection, no logic, no heart, no feeling. Just an odd creature who continually defends the undefensible and seems able to communicate but alas, is truly unable to think.

Ciao.

PS If I shouldn't 'medal' with the occult may I suggest you keep away from the English language? It oughtn't be abused and mangled by 'peopal' like you.

[thirdwave]

I refer to my above posts...

Ciao.

[thelonious]

I am so intrigued now by the occult that I am going to try and learn as much as I can now, with that said if anyone with absolute knowledge on the subject wouldnt mind pointing this noob in the right direction it would be greatly appreciated. if anyone can suggest some legit beginners reading material and perhaps some info on what I should stay away from(because its fake) then I would also appreciate that.

I by no means have "absolute knowledge" of the occult, but I have been a student and practitioner for many years, and in that regard, will offer my advice.

Traditionally, in the hermetic school of Occultism, one begins by practicing the Lesser Ritual of the Pentagram daily. It was the usual custom of Neophytes of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn to use the invoking ritual in the mornings and the banishing ritual before retiring in the evening. Over time, for whatever reason, the Lesser Invoking Ritual of the Pentagram has been practically discarded, with students concentrating their beginning efforts almost solely on the banishing formula. Regardless, the ritual in at least one of its forms should be practiced daily. Instructions are given in Crowley's Liber O, Regardie's "The Golden Dawn", and many other places.

When the Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram has been thoroughly and unambiguously mastered, the next step is traditionally to learn and become adept at the Great Ritual of the Pentagram. These two rituals assist the beginning magician to learn to control, through thought and symbols, his immediate environment, the Microcosm, which is composed of the four elements known to the ancients, represented by the Sacred Pentagram.

After this, the Lesser and Greater Rituals of the Hexagram are learned, the Hexagram being the key to the forces in the Macrocosm, just as the Pentagram is the key to the forces in the Microcosm.

For good reading material for beginners I can suggest no better books than "Modern Magick: Eleven Lessons in the High Magickal Arts" by Donald Michael Kraig, and "The Magick of Aleister Crowley: A Handbook of the Rituals of Thelema" by Lon Milo Duquette. You will also want a copy of "The Golden Dawn" by Dr. Israel Regardie. Make haste slowly, especially with the Regardie book.

[marpat]

Would you care to tell us what you know or even mean by occult salvation?

I'm very curious. A lot of people here bang the drum for the occult but none of them actually tell you anything about it.

I think the fact that they revere Aliester Crowley should be warning enough. If not, you've only your self to blame when the candles go out and you're hearing voices and shadows moving in the corner of your eyes.......


Unlike many people here I actually reached an advanced stage. I had astral images and received astral communication.

It's all very well when you do as you're told and play ball but try doing something 'they' don't want you to and they send the demons after you. Imagine everytime you closed your eyes you see grey figures with burning eyes haunting your mind. You open your eyes and you feel a cold wind blowing across your skin, but the windows are closed. You close your eyes again to try to sleep and the cold breeze becomes visible as a raging demon again. So even when awake and you feel a cold breeze you know you're being haunted.

I've God, Jesus and weed to thank for getting my ass out of that mess.

Like I said, just you wait till the candles blow out.

Won't be quite the power picnic you bargained for.


Just some free friendly advice for y'all.


I could tell you all you need to know about the occult and then your curiosity will be satisfied without your curiosity killing the cat.

Why does a person who believes in the power of jesus need weed? that would imply that you dont really belive god has the power to heal you as if you read the bible (which must be your book if you are into jesus) some people are healed just through the power of their faith.

I would also say that the images you see are nothing to do with you being advanced but are more likely to be the reuslt of being high as a kite. Hallucinations are not a foolproof measurement of spiritual development. Your posts tell a story of a man who is not advanced but who is an arrogant bigot

[thelonious]

I would also say that the images you see are nothing to do with you being advanced but are more likely to be the reuslt of being high as a kite. Hallucinations are not a foolproof measurement of spiritual development.

I was thinking the exact same thing when I read his post. His supposed visions are far more along the lines of schizophrenia than of occult practice and mastery.

[marpat]

I was thinking the exact same thing when I read his post. His supposed visions are far more along the lines of schizophrenia than of occult practice and mastery.

Also, do the real high achievers boast of their attainment as well.

[killuminatiday]

I by no means have "absolute knowledge" of the occult, but I have been a student and practitioner for many years, and in that regard, will offer my advice.

Traditionally, in the hermetic school of Occultism, one begins by practicing the Lesser Ritual of the Pentagram daily. It was the usual custom of Neophytes of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn to use the invoking ritual in the mornings and the banishing ritual before retiring in the evening. Over time, for whatever reason, the Lesser Invoking Ritual of the Pentagram has been practically discarded, with students concentrating their beginning efforts almost solely on the banishing formula. Regardless, the ritual in at least one of its forms should be practiced daily. Instructions are given in Crowley's Liber O, Regardie's "The Golden Dawn", and many other places.

When the Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram has been thoroughly and unambiguously mastered, the next step is traditionally to learn and become adept at the Great Ritual of the Pentagram. These two rituals assist the beginning magician to learn to control, through thought and symbols, his immediate environment, the Microcosm, which is composed of the four elements known to the ancients, represented by the Sacred Pentagram.

After this, the Lesser and Greater Rituals of the Hexagram are learned, the Hexagram being the key to the forces in the Macrocosm, just as the Pentagram is the key to the forces in the Microcosm.

For good reading material for beginners I can suggest no better books than "Modern Magick: Eleven Lessons in the High Magickal Arts" by Donald Michael Kraig, and "The Magick of Aleister Crowley: A Handbook of the Rituals of Thelema" by Lon Milo Duquette. You will also want a copy of "The Golden Dawn" by Dr. Israel Regardie. Make haste slowly, especially with the Regardie book.

thank you sir, this was the kind of info I was looking for. I was especially looking for some good books and I will check those out. I picked up some book by franz bardon or barton or something or other and it is really interesting so far. thanks again

[noewhan]

While I'd agree that the abuse of any drug will hurt you, marijuana has been used for centuries - & even to treat schizophrenia. It's actually beneficial, I'm sure most people here have seen the Rick Simpson story & how THC oil can cure most types of serious cancers. Or how the paper industry along with the drug administration wanted to eliminate cannabis because - cannabis is actually good as a material.
Then again, I have seen first hand a friend of mine turn schizophrenic. But he/she would also drink cheap wine when smoking if possible.
Everything in moderation, wouldn't you all agree? Plus personal reference. I'll never do most types of drugs.

Little boxes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8StRAJCork) :)

Cannabis and the Conspiracy against Marijuana Hemp (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnwkBhOIF4o)

Grass: The History Of Marijuana (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sknoKWsVlAA)

The Rick Simpson Story (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjhT9282-Tw)

Meh, I guess it's fine to use morphine / heroin in hospitals to sooth pain? Heroin never had a bad name :rolleyes:

[marpat]

Cant really see the need for drug use myself. I have never tried any at all yet I have managed to experience plenty of inner world activity

[noewhan]

Cant really see the need for drug use myself. I have never tried any at all yet I have managed to experience plenty of inner world activity

What's plenty though? I'm not endorsing drugs in anyway, but I think it's also safe to say you see no need for it, because you haven't experienced drugs & therefore really have no idea.
Besides, you do 'take' drugs every time you sleep. Look into DMT. It's still a 'drug' even though it occurs naturally.

Ever had coffee? You've had drugs then :)

Also, would you somewhat agree that drugs open up parts of the brain, and some say they see other dimensions & thats the real reason why drugs are illegal? The CIA tried using acid / LSD for a while on their own troops. If you see the footage they are all just laughing & having a good time.
No no, can't have a good time. :D

Then again, Crowley used drugs. Nobody in their right mind would want to turn out like him. :P

[marpat]

What's plenty though? I'm not endorsing drugs in anyway, but I think it's also safe to say you see no need for it, because you haven't experienced drugs & therefore really have no idea.
Besides, you do 'take' drugs every time you sleep. Look into DMT. It's still a 'drug' even though it occurs naturally.

Ever had coffee? You've had drugs then :)

Also, would you somewhat agree that drugs open up parts of the brain, and some say they see other dimensions & thats the real reason why drugs are illegal? The CIA tried using acid / LSD for a while on their own troops. If you see the footage they are all just laughing & having a good time.
No no, can't have a good time. :D

Then again, Crowley used drugs. Nobody in their right mind would want to turn out like him. :P

David Icke also used drugs. Crowley was proscribed some for medicinal purposes, which then became a habit but at least he tried to understand the mechanism of it.

You know full well what type of drugs I am talking about. The footage of tropps on LSD is not Amerian or CIA, it is a British film where the subject were Royal Marines.

Good times? what has that got to do with anything? I know people who have taken drugs and they take them because they are incapable of having a good time without them. That is not good.

[thelonious]

While I'd agree that the abuse of any drug will hurt you, marijuana has been used for centuries - & even to treat schizophrenia. It's actually beneficial, I'm sure most people here have seen the Rick Simpson story & how THC oil can cure most types of serious cancers.

For the record, I personally have nothing against the medicinal or responsible recreational use of cannabis, but I've never heard of it curing anyone's cancer. It has, however, been often used to treat the side effects of radiational treatments for cancer.

[thelonious]

thank you sir, this was the kind of info I was looking for. I was especially looking for some good books and I will check those out. I picked up some book by franz bardon or barton or something or other and it is really interesting so far. thanks again

My pleasure. And actually, those books are available online for free:

http://english.grimoar.cz/?Loc=aut&Lng=2

[shansuke]

i dont realy know mutch at all about the occult,i recently became intrested to find out what all the fuss is about.
i read crowleys moonchild (on the advice of a forum member),quite a good read as a fiction book but it didnt realy tell me mutch about the occult.

i then read book of the law,that one went totaly over my head and cind of gave me the impression that its all bull realy,but thats probably just me being ignorant because i couldnt realy make any sence of it.

i then started reading magick in theory and practice,now this book i do understand,in fact i was totaly lapping it up and couldnt believe how mutch sence its making,only realy read say the first 80 to 100 pages.

so i started reading this the other day,anyway i got the day of today so decided to do some mescaline cactus last night,(i think some of you know where this story is heading)anyway im talking to my friend and we get talking about the book and i explain to him everything i get from the book so far,and as im explaining to him what ive learned from it i feel like im analizing everything im saying while im saying it(if any of you know how psychedelics work you will know what i mean by not being able to hide from the truth in whatever your speaking or thinking about).

anyway thats all said and done and wee decide to go to my friends for an hour.

so i came home alone after this and sat down in my living room(remember im tripping so its probobly just down to that)but i get a feeling coming from the left of me like im being watched,or someones trying to atract my attention when i look round and its the book,like its radiating some sort of energy,lol,so i pick it up and take it to the bedroom and leave it face down as its kind of freaking me out a bit.

so like i said this could just be all paranoia,and probabley is.anyway i just started thinking about the whole thing,not thinking as sutch but just trying to slow my thaught down and relax a bit but i just couldnt get the book out of my head,i kept thinking how mutch sence this book was making but ther was a voice,or like another thaught prosses happening where im building a growing fear for the book and althow its words make sence im getting the feeling like by reading it im opening up this knoledge that i must learn about,and learn about properly.

now i know this all sounds like paranoia and thers a good chance it is but it was freaking me out.

anyway i couldnt stop thinking about this and how thers this voice telling me im at a point where ive either read to mutch and quit now even thow i could still have done some damege or carry on and throw myself in this whole thelema bussness and learn whole hartedly.

so for the next few hours my trip was ruined and dominated by thaughts of this book so just tried to chill out and listen to music and forget the whole bussness for the night.

so i went to my bed at ten past three in the morning,pulled back the covers and sudenly realised i was still tripping and had no chance of sleeping,i look up and thers the book,so i thaught,what the hell,lets make this freaky trip even freakyer,so i got up,turned the light on,lit two candles and put them on my work bench thats laying near my bed,perfect amount of light to read in,i turned the light back out and sat down on the bed on top of the duvet.

now i never in my life have candles so close to things at night but i was wide awake,i opened the book and the next thing i know im waking up and ive pulled the covers right of the bed to where the candles wher.

now im freaked,cause im still tripping and feel like im wide awake again and nearly set my house on fire.

i lay ther in the dark,no book no candles,nothing,just laying ther thinking about how stuped i had been,this is when i starterd geting these freaky visual closed eye halucinations of freaky slobering creatures brething on my(verry like the scene in alien),then i open my eyes and its still ther,i jumped back with a fright and do my best to grow set i i was trying to tell my self,and just talk myself in to the fact that ive just braught all this nonsence in to my head by freaking myself out with daft occult books.

anyway i finaly maneged to get to sleep.

i woke up sweating in the morning,i had been getting dreams all night about crashing my motorbike and dying and my famely cleaning my house out and finding these occult books,seriously the last thing i remember about the dream is im totaly dead and my famely are just discusing amongst themselfs about how my curiosity of the occuly killed me.

now il never take a candle to my room again,i dont think the occult is for me,i mean it could be totaly harmless,personaly i think ive just freked myself out over the whole thing,but if thats what a bit of reading can do to my mind it just showes how dameging words can be to someone who is tripping,paranoid,ignorant,maybe bo one or all of these but i know its not for me.

ive had plenty of visions of truth when tripping,like when you can just totaly see the truth in things but dont want to act upon them,(man if i acted upon all my tripping visions i would be living in a shak in the woods as a recluse).but ive never built up a paranoid fear of something over the space of a few hours that has freaked me out so mutch.

i went out on my bike today and could hardly go over 40mph.

im gonna forget all about this occult bussness i think and maybe have a follow up trip during the solstice next week,il see how i react top this whole bussness when ive had a week to ponder what happened.

btw im verry experienced with entheogens and know i probely just worked myself in to a paranoid hole but ill see how i feel about it all soon.sometimes i just need a bit of time to clear my head.

[ufochick]

Occult just means hidden. The easiest and safest way to access things that are normally hidden is to learn to control your own thoughts and actions and emotions and choose your path in life. Once your mind is not cluttered all the time things will become clear to you and you will be able to experience much that is hidden from other "cluttered" people. No need for drugs

[edelweiss pirate]

Occult just means hidden. The easiest and safest way to access things that are normally hidden is to learn to control your own thoughts and actions and emotions and choose your path in life. Once your mind is not cluttered all the time things will become clear to you and you will be able to experience much that is hidden from other "cluttered" people. No need for drugs

Occult means hidden. Problem is it is usually hidden by the people who control it. And they hide it because it allows them to exercise power.

If you join the 'occult' you are essentially joining the rulers of this world.


Just don't expect celestial champagne and caviar if you go along with this deal.


You'll be a slave. Nothing more.


Your mind doesn't become clear. It is erased. There's a difference.

If you're really interested in becoming wise and powerful do Zen meditation. It's really all you need.

No need to light candles and sacrifice small animals. That's stupid.

[thirdwave]

Occult just means hidden. The easiest and safest way to access things that are normally hidden is to learn to control your own thoughts and actions and emotions and choose your path in life. Once your mind is not cluttered all the time things will become clear to you and you will be able to experience much that is hidden from other "cluttered" people. No need for drugs

Very true...

Some People think that Magick is freaky.. well only because we are so freaky, and society is...

You don't solve something by creating a big scare crow and using fear to obstruct something and its knowledge..

The elite want people to either think the occult is mumbo jumbo or very evil and frightening... either suits them because it still keeps people ignorant to what its about..

It is simply about the nature of reality and how to interact with it.. the art of controlling your subconscious which create experience.

if people are taught that dealing with the subconscious is freaky and evil, well it does not really bowed well for their spiritual development.. this is why Religion is a great way to hold people back... when you realise that most symbols and deities that are portrait as evil are simply aspects of our selves and our struggles then you can see that religion is an occult ritual in its self... only not created by the practitioner.. but by an elite force that created it for them... and not for their long term benefit...

over the years throughout history independent occult movements or even civilisations where wiped out by people who held the same symbols our elite hold up today... and we are only taught of those movements and civilisations as "evil" and that they did sacrifices and murder... as if that was the whole story...

but we all know History is written by the winners and we know who won.

The occult is about magic... deeper science..... Science is there, like a tree, not evil or good... simple their...

We don't have to use it no... But some do because their lives lead them to it and they feel at one with it... ready for it.. ... and others do so because they are greedy unfortunately.













Shamans around the world are deeply into "magick" but there minds are more healthy then Western people.. and they view western people as very ill...

I remember reading a cool book once (cant remember what its called) and it talked about facing negativity in our lives and treating them like an operation.. you gently deal with it.. you don't ignore it or it will not heel... and you do not grab it and try and pull it about... you deal with it gently..

This is my view on how to take in the true nature of reality and stuff in magic..

[edelweiss pirate]

Urgh!

Third Wave giving advice about the occult is like the bad wolf giving red riding hood advice about forest navigation.

The OTO and others is the reason the occult has a bad name.

If you want to know ANYTHING at all about the occult just ask me.

I will give you the truth, not a recruitment drive for satan's parlour.

[thirdwave]

If you want to know ANYTHING at all about the occult just ask me.

I will give you the truth, not a recruitment drive for satan's parlour.

lol!

Yes messiah!

please feed me with your all powerful knowledge! lol









not

[thirdwave]

I find there are some who simply find the occult (magick) hard to take in because it requires so much focus and dedication.. most really cant do that in nowadays rat race and hence can get freaked out with just a dabble mentality.., or some are just paranoid and fear orientated and clinging to much to a view they are addicted too and expect someone like Jesus to dump it all on their lap.. laziness... so on.. If one was to imply that Jesus did not live or is more or less unknown to us today, then feel their wrath.

The OTO??

The OTO is not the be all and end all of the occult for a start.
it is one secret society which has been lead by more than one hand and is a speck in the mass amount of Occult movement there has been... it has also not come anywhere close to the crimes committed by Christianity, this is a fact, and an over whelming one at that... We can attack those Christian groups with facts... not hear say and malicious unprovable accusations..

But it goes with the territory of brainwashed dogmatic minds to attack witches, to attack people who are outlandish or threaten society's dogmatic fear and money orientated mind sets.....

Well the bottom line is time will tell.

We see religioun falling away every day and it has nothing to do with some plot, no, it has to do with maturity... to do with the penny dropping its just at the moment all the pennies are dropping at once and making a bit of a mess.....

Religion is burning down IMO, and regardless of how offensive that is to some, I am in my right to say it, as it is more offensive not being able to speak your mind due to others not having the mental strength to deal with anothers view, than it is them having a view that something is not genuine in their eyes..

You can see how it has changed in the last 100 years or so... and wonder how it will be in 100 years time?

I welcome it and I have my marsh mellows ready to heat them up on its fire...

Those who are really spiritual and in touch with god, will not be effected by its demise anyway and those who are will be forced back to the drawing board and made to learn again... which they will...

I don't believe anyone is completely free until we are all free and my back pack is nice and full and i got my hiking boots on ready for a long hike :)

[stag watson]

I've wondered for a while, what exactly is supposed to be wrong with The Occult. Is it simply that it's anti-Christian? I've been looking into it for about a year or so now and to me it just seems like a form of self help. I'm no expert though, unlike many people on here who have a profound dislike of it, so that's why I'm asking the question: what's wrong with the occult?

The Occult or Hidden is Actually the View from Uranus when we are pretending otherwise.The whole world is going under!