Shunned by parents about the vaccine.

[spaceman44]

:mad:I have been shunned by some parents at my daughters local school, for advising a few of my parent friends, not to let their child have the vaccine that is planned, some time when the school opens after the summer break. More exposure needs to implemented to advise parents of the situation regarding these deadly vaccines. I do my best to inform them, but they look at me as if I am crazy for saying such things, and putting these ideas in their children's heads. My 10 year old daughter knows everything about what's going on regarding the deadly vaccine and she quite openly tells all her friends at school. I don't mind my daughter knowing about the vaccine, in fact I promote it, and so should other parents, not to scare them but, to inform them of the situation. They have a right to know, considering it's them that are being targeted first. Does anyone disagree with me ? I wonder.:confused:

[cafetimes1991]

Sorry to hear that, spaceman.
This should galvanise us to get the TRUTH about the swine flu out there, through leaflets, videos etc so this isn't repeated. But it seems inevitable that it will, unfortunately.
I'm not sure if there will be poison injections when I return to school on 1 September. I hope not.
For the next while I will be focussing my activism on:
1. The Lisbon Treason
2. The swine flu ''vaccine''

[windeyaho]

You are NOT wrong for telling your daughter the truth. When the polio vaccine first came out, they were brainwashing all the kids in school with a movie about it. I remember the movie they showed about the virus looking like big spiders in our bloodstream and the white corpuscles (after being vaccinated) were the good guys coming to save us from the "spiders". That movie pushed every button in a kids mind and I went home frightened.

My parents sat me down and discussed the whole thing with me. First, they told me THAT was just a movie and what really is supposed to happen is that the vaccine is supposed to put up a defense against anything coming INTO your system. However, they said, we don't believe in it and from the stats we're seeing coming through the news and TV, more kids are getting polio from the vaccine than seems safe so you will NOT be getting that vaccine or ANY vaccines. The last was because the school insisted that if we were going to refuse the polio vaccine then we had to refuse ALL vaccines. I'm glad they did.

I have had mumps, immune for life. I've had rubella, immune for life. Sat right next to a kid in school who broke out with chickenpox, never got it. All the hype about how dangerous these diseases are is just that, hype when it comes to kids. They are very serious if caught as an adult. Vaccinations only give you temporary immunity, if that. So all those vaccinated for childhood diseases will have to continue getting vaccinated in order not to catch stuff as adults. What a wonderful guarantee that the drug companies will make money on you your whole life.

If I had school age children now, I would be homeschooling. Besides the supposed "mandatory" vaccines (you can still say NO- it's just more complicated), I teach private music lessons to the current crop of kids and I see what they aren't learning. I also see the results of what all those vaccinations have done. However, in order to have an income and a roof over my head, I have to keep my mouth shut. That's why I am so thankful for forums like this. I can let off steam, maybe help someone and learn even more myself.

[cafetimes1991]

A video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6-bsaF-Cww&feature=channel_page) I recently made about 'vaccine' day at my prison (school).

[marpat]

:mad:I have been shunned by some parents at my daughters local school, for advising a few of my parent friends, not to let their child have the vaccine that is planned, some time when the school opens after the summer break. More exposure needs to implemented to advise parents of the situation regarding these deadly vaccines. I do my best to inform them, but they look at me as if I am crazy for saying such things, and putting these ideas in their children's heads. My 10 year old daughter knows everything about what's going on regarding the deadly vaccine and she quite openly tells all her friends at school. I don't mind my daughter knowing about the vaccine, in fact I promote it, and so should other parents, not to scare them but, to inform them of the situation. They have a right to know, considering it's them that are being targeted first. Does anyone disagree with me ? I wonder.:confused:

And have you offered them any real proof that the vaccine is harmful? how does your daughter know everything? what you mean is that you have filled her mind with your own beliefs on the vaccine.

People do have a right to know about things but I think there tend to expect some form of proof or evidence, or at least a qualified opinion. You cant expect them to just believe you without something to back it all up.

[cruise4]

Use leaflets and posters. It removes the oft-taken reaction against the messenger and puts an onus on them... although if your skin is thick enough there's nothing wrong with confronting them either.

[qeutey]

My 10 year old daughter knows everything about what's going on regarding the deadly vaccine and she quite openly tells all her friends at school. I don't mind my daughter knowing about the vaccine, in fact I promote it, and so should other parents, not to scare them but, to inform them of the situation.

Have you taught her the dangers of pandemic flu, particularly given the age demographic of the current strain. Does she know about 1918/1919 when an estimated 50 million people died from swine flu.

Is what you have taught her balanced and informed or the "beliefs" of a limited few who post on internet sites like this.

[decided]

You may want to print this out and hand it to a few -

http://www.rense.com/general87/retired.htm

[decided]

Retired Vax Scientist Would
Never Vaccinate His Kids
From Ken Adachi
8-6-9

"If I had a child now, the last thing I would allow is vaccination."
-Retired Vaccine Researcher to Jon Rappoport

Editor's Note -- This interview was posted by Jon Rappoport in early January 2002. You will discover by reading it that the very issues we now face of FORCED vaccination of a laboratory-created vaccine to "protect" us against a laboratory-created "disease" (Swine Flu, Bird flu, etc.) was set into motion a long time ago.

The vaccine researcher quoted here flat out says that the World Homicide Organization, WHO, is driven by a DEPOPULATION agenda, and that many African leaders know full well that the explosive spread of HIV and AIDS in Africa was caused by WHO-sponsored vaccinations of the 1970s.

This former pharmaceutical insider also debunks the widespread ASSUMPTIONS of vaccine "safety" promoted by orthodox medicine, the CDC, the National Institute of Health, state health departments, and their compliant media propagandists who are all parroting SUPERSTITIONS, rather than FACTS. --Ken Adachi

From Jon Rappoport (www.nomorefakenews.com)

http://educate-yourself.org/cn/rappoportinterviewvaccineresearcherjan2002.shtml

January 2002

Retired Vaccine Researcher to Jon Rappoport: "If I had a child now, the last thing I would allow is vaccination." (Aug. 6, 2009)

Jon Rappoport (Q) Interviews a Retired Vaccine Researcher (A) (given the pseudonym of "Dr. Mark Randall")

Q: You were once certain that vaccines were the hallmark of good medicine.

A: Yes I was. I helped develop a few vaccines. I won't say which ones.

Q: Why not?

A: I want to preserve my privacy.

Q: So you think you could have problems if you came out into the open?

A: I believe I could lose my pension.

Q: On what grounds?

A: The grounds don't matter. These people have ways of causing you problems, when you were once part of the Club. I know one or two people who were put under surveillance, who were harassed.

Q: Harassed by whom?

A: The FBI.

Q: Really?

A: Sure. The FBI used other pretexts. And the IRS can come calling too.

Q: So much for free speech.

A: I was "part of the inner circle." If now I began to name names and make specific accusations against researchers, I could be in a world of trouble.

Q: What is at the bottom of these efforts at harassment?

A: Vaccines are the last defense of modern medicine. Vaccines are the ultimate justification for the overall "brilliance" of modern medicine.

Q: Do you believe that people should be allowed to choose whether they should get vaccines?

A: On a political level, yes. On a scientific level, people need information, so that they can choose well. It's one thing to say choice is good. But if the atmosphere is full of lies, how can you choose? Also, if the FDA were run by honorable people, these vaccines would not be granted licenses. They would be investigated to within an inch of their lives.

Q: There are medical historians who state that the overall decline of illnesses was not due to vaccines.

A: I know. For a long time, I ignored their work.

Q: Why?

A: Because I was afraid of what I would find out. I was in the business of developing vaccines. My livelihood depended on continuing that work.

Q: And then?

A: I did my own investigation.

Q: What conclusions did you come to?

A: The decline of disease is due to improved living conditions.

Q: What conditions?

A: Cleaner water. Advanced sewage systems. Nutrition. Fresher food. A decrease in poverty. Germs may be everywhere, but when you are healthy, you don't contract the diseases as easily.

Q: What did you feel when you completed your own investigation?

A: Despair. I realized I was working a sector based on a collection of lies.

Q: Are some vaccines more dangerous than others?

A: Yes. The DPT shot, for example. The MMR. But some lots of a vaccine are more dangerous than other lots of the same vaccine. As far as I'm concerned, all vaccines are dangerous.

Q: Why?

A: Several reasons. They involve the human immune system in a process that tends to compromise immunity. They can actually cause the disease they are supposed to prevent. They can cause other diseases than the ones they are supposed to prevent.

Q: Why are we quoted statistics which seem to prove that vaccines have been tremendously successful at wiping out diseases?

A: Why? To give the illusion that these vaccines are useful. If a vaccine suppresses visible symptoms of a disease like measles, everyone assumes that the vaccine is a success. But, under the surface, the vaccine can harm the immune system itself. And if it causes other diseases -- say, meningitis -- that fact is masked, because no one believes that the vaccine can do that. The connection is overlooked.

Q: It is said that the smallpox vaccine wiped out smallpox in England.

A: Yes. But when you study the available statistics, you get another picture.

Q: Which is?

A: There were cities in England where people who were not vaccinated did not get smallpox. There were places where people who were vaccinated experienced smallpox epidemics. And smallpox was already on the decline before the vaccine was introduced.

Q: So you're saying that we have been treated to a false history.

A: Yes. That's exactly what I'm saying. This is a history that has been cooked up to convince people that vaccines are invariably safe and effective.

Q: Now, you worked in labs. Where purity was an issue.

A: The public believes that these labs, these manufacturing facilities are the cleanest places in the world. That is not true. Contamination occurs all the time. You get all sorts of debris introduced into vaccines.

Q: For example, the SV40 monkey virus slips into the polio vaccine.

A: Well yes, that happened. But that's not what I mean. The SV40 got into the polio vaccine because the vaccine was made by using monkey kidneys. But I'm talking about something else. The actual lab conditions. The mistakes. The careless errors. SV40, which was later found in cancer tumors -- that was what I would call a structural problem. It was an accepted part of the manufacturing process. If you use monkey kidneys, you open the door to germs which you don't know are in those kidneys.

Q: Okay, but let's ignore that distinction between different types of contaminants for a moment. What contaminants did you find in your many years of work with vaccines?

A: All right. I'll give you some of what I came across, and I'll also give you what colleagues of mine found. Here's a partial list. In the Rimavex measles vaccine, we found various chicken viruses. In polio vaccine, we found acanthamoeba, which is a so-called "brain-eating" amoeba.

Simian cytomegalovirus in polio vaccine. Simian foamy virus in the rotavirus vaccine. Bird-cancer viruses in the MMR vaccine. Various micro-organisms in the anthrax vaccine. I've found potentially dangerous enzyme inhibitors in several vaccines. Duck, dog, and rabbit viruses in the rubella vaccine. Avian leucosis virus in the flu vaccine. Pestivirus in the MMR vaccine.

Q: Let me get this straight. These are all contaminants which don't belong in the vaccines.

A: That's right. And if you try to calculate what damage these contaminants can cause, well, we don't really know, because no testing has been done, or very little testing. It's a game of roulette. You take your chances. Also, most people don't know that some polio vaccines, adenovirus vaccines, rubella and hep A and measles vaccines have been made with aborted human fetal tissue. I have found what I believed were bacterial fragments and poliovirus in these vaccines from time to time -- which may have come from that fetal tissue. When you look for contaminants in vaccines, you can come up with material that IS puzzling. You know it shouldn't be there, but you don't know exactly what you've got. I have found what I believed was a very small "fragment" of human hair and also human mucus. I have found what can only be called "foreign protein," which could mean almost anything. It could mean protein from viruses.

Q: Alarm bells are ringing all over the place.

A: How do you think I felt? Remember, this material is going into the bloodstream without passing through some of the ordinary immune defenses.

Q: How were your findings received?

A: Basically, it was, don't worry, this can't be helped. In making vaccines, you use various animals' tissue, and that's where this kind of contamination enters in. Of course, I'm not even mentioning the standard chemicals like formaldehyde, mercury, and aluminum which are purposely put into vaccines.

Q: This information is pretty staggering.

A: Yes. And I'm just mentioning some of the biological contaminants. Who knows how many others there are? Others we don't find because we don't think to look for them. If tissue from, say, a bird is used to make a vaccine, how many possible germs can be in that tissue? We have no idea. We have no idea what they might be, or what effects they could have on humans.

Q: And beyond the purity issue?

A: You are dealing with the basic faulty premise about vaccines. That they intricately stimulate the immune system to create the conditions for immunity from disease. That is the bad premise. It doesn't work that way. A vaccine is supposed to "create" antibodies which, indirectly, offer protection against disease. However, the immune system is much larger and more involved than antibodies and their related "killer cells."

Q: The immune system is?

A: The entire body, really. Plus the mind. It's all immune system, you might say. That is why you can have, in the middle of an epidemic, those individuals who remain healthy.

Q: So the level of general health is important.

A: More than important. Vital.

Q: How are vaccine statistics falsely presented?

A: There are many ways. For example, suppose that 25 people who have received the hepatitis B vaccine come down with hepatitis. Well, hep B is a liver disease. But you can call liver disease many things. You can change the diagnosis. Then, you've concealed the root cause of the problem.

Q: And that happens?

A: All the time. It HAS to happen, if the doctors automatically assume that people who get vaccines DO NOT come down with the diseases they are now supposed to be protected from. And that is exactly what doctors assume. You see, it's circular reasoning. It's a closed system. It admits no fault. No possible fault. If a person who gets a vaccine against hepatitis gets hepatitis, or gets some other disease, the automatic assumption is, this had nothing to do with the disease.

Q: In your years working in the vaccine establishment, how many doctors did you encounter who admitted that vaccines were a problem?

A: None. There were a few who privately questioned what they were doing. But they would never go public, even within their companies.

Q: What was the turning point for you?

A: I had a friend whose baby died after a DPT shot.

Q: Did you investigate?

A: Yes, informally. I found that this baby was completely healthy before the vaccination. There was no reason for his death, except the vaccine. That started my doubts. Of course, I wanted to believe that the baby had gotten a bad shot from a bad lot. But as I looked into this further, I found that was not the case in this instance. I was being drawn into a spiral of doubt that increased over time. I continued to investigate. I found that, contrary to what I thought, vaccines are not tested in a scientific way.

Q: What do you mean?

A: For example, no long-term studies are done on any vaccines. Long-term follow-up is not done in any careful way. Why? Because, again, the assumption is made that vaccines do not cause problems. So why should anyone check? On top of that, a vaccine reaction is defined so that all bad reactions are said to occur very soon after the shot is given. But that does not make sense.

Q: Why doesn't it make sense?

A: Because the vaccine obviously acts in the body for a long period of time after it is given. A reaction can be gradual. Deterioration can be gradual. Neurological problems can develop over time. They do in various conditions, even according to a conventional analysis. So why couldn't that be the case with vaccines? If chemical poisoning can occur gradually, why couldn't that be the case with a vaccine which contains mercury?

Q: And that is what you found?

A: Yes. You are dealing with correlations, most of the time.Correlations are not perfect. But if you get 500 parents whose children have suffered neurological damage during a one-year period after having a vaccine, this should be sufficient to spark off an intense investigation.

Q: Has it been enough?

A: No. Never. This tells you something right away.

Q: Which is?

A: The people doing the investigation are not really interested in looking at the facts. They assume that the vaccines are safe. So, when they do investigate, they invariably come up with exonerations of the vaccines. They say, "This vaccine is safe." But what do they base those judgments on? They base them on definitions and ideas which automatically rule out a condemnation of the vaccine.

Q: There are numerous cases where a vaccine campaign has failed. Where people have come down with the disease against which they were vaccinated.

A: Yes, there are many such instances. And there the evidence is simply ignored. It's discounted. The experts say, if they say anything at all, that this is just an isolated situation, but overall the vaccine has been shown to be safe. But if you add up all the vaccine campaigns where damage and disease have occurred, you realize that these are NOT isolated situations.

Q: Did you ever discuss what we are talking about here with colleagues, when you were still working in the vaccine establishment?

A: Yes I did.

Q: What happened?

A: Several times I was told to keep quiet. It was made clear that I should go back to work and forget my misgivings. On a few occasions, I encountered fear. Colleagues tried to avoid me. They felt they could be labeled with "guilt by association." All in all, though, I behaved myself.I made sure I didn't create problems for myself.

Q: If vaccines actually do harm, why are they given?

A: First of all, there is no "if." They do harm. It becomes a more difficult question to decide whether they do harm in those people who seem to show no harm. Then you are dealing with the kind of research which should be done, but isn't. Researchers should be probing to discover a kind of map, or flow chart, which shows exactly what vaccines do in the body from the moment they enter. This research has not been done. As to why they are given, we could sit here for two days and discuss all the reasons. As you've said many times, at different layers of the system people have their motives. Money, fear of losing a job, the desire to win brownie points, prestige, awards, promotion, misguided idealism, unthinking habit, and so on. But, at the highest levels of the medical cartel, vaccines are a top priority because they cause a weakening of the immune system. I know that may be hard to accept, but it's true. The medical cartel, at the highest level, is not out to help people, it is out to harm them, to weaken them. To kill them. At one point in my career, I had a long conversation with a man who occupied a high government position in an African nation. He told me that he was well aware of this. He told me that WHO is a front for these depopulation interests. There is an underground, shall we say, in Africa, made up of various officials who are earnestly trying to change the lot of the poor. This network of people knows what is going on. They know that vaccines have been used, and are being used, to destroy their countries, to make them ripe for takeover by globalist powers. I have had the opportunity to speak with several of these people from this network.

Q: Is Thabo Mbeki, the president of South Africa, aware of the situation?

A: I would say he is partially aware. Perhaps he is not utterly convinced, but he is on the way to realizing the whole truth. He already knows that HIV is a hoax. He knows that the AIDS drugs are poisons which destroy the immune system. He also knows that if he speaks out, in any way, about the vaccine issue, he will be branded a lunatic. He has enough trouble after his stand on the AIDS issue.

Q: This network you speak of.

A: It has accumulated a huge amount of information about vaccines. The question is, how is a successful strategy going to be mounted? For these people, that is a difficult issue.

Q: And in the industrialized nations?

A: The medical cartel has a stranglehold, but it is diminishing. Mainly because people have the freedom to question medicines. However, if the choice issue [the right to take or reject any medicine] does not gather steam, these coming mandates about vaccines against biowarefare germs are going to win out. This is an important time.

Q: The furor over the hepatits B vaccine seems one good avenue.

A: I think so, yes. To say that babies must have the vaccine-and then in the next breath, admitting that a person gets hep B from sexual contacts and shared needles -- is a ridiculous juxtaposition. Medical authorities try to cover themselves by saying that 20,000 or so children in the US get hep B every year from "unknown causes," and that's why every baby must have the vaccine. I dispute that 20,00 figure and the so-called studies that back it up.

Q: Andrew Wakefield, the British MD who uncovered the link between the MMR vaccine and autism, has just been fired from his job in a London hospital.

A: Yes. Wakefield performed a great service. His correlations between the vaccine and autism are stunning. Perhaps you know that Tony Blair's wife is involved with alternative health. There is the possibility that their child has not been given the MMR. Blair recently side-stepped the question in press interviews, and made it seem that he was simply objecting to invasive questioning of his "personal and family life." In any event, I believe his wife has been muzzled. I think, if given the chance, she would at least say she is sympathetic to all the families who have come forward and stated that their children were severely damaged by the MMR.

Q: British reporters should try to get through to her.

A: They have been trying. But I think she has made a deal with her husband to keep quiet, no matter what. She could do a great deal of good if she breaks her promise. I have been told she is under pressure, and not just from her husband. At the level she occupies, MI6 and British health authorities get into the act. It is thought of as a matter of national security.

Q: Well, it is national security, once you understand the medical cartel.

A: It is global security. The cartel operates in every nation. It zealously guards the sanctity of vaccines. Questioning these vaccines is on the same level as a Vatican bishop questioning the sanctity of the sacrament of the Eucharist in the Catholic Church.

Q: I know that a Hollywood celebrity stating publicly that he will not take a vaccine is committing career suicide.

A: Hollywood is linked very powerfully to the medical cartel. There are several reasons, but one of them is simply that an actor who is famous can draw a huge amount of publicity if he says ANYTHING. In 1992, I was present at your demonstration against the FDA in downtown Los Angeles. One or two actors spoke against the FDA. Since that time, you would be hard pressed to find an actor who has spoken out in any way against the medical cartel.

Q: Within the National Institutes of Health, what is the mood, what is the basic frame of mind?

A: People are competing for research monies. The last thing they think about is challenging the status quo. They are already in an intramural war for that money. They don't need more trouble. This is a very insulated system. It depends on the idea that, by and large, modern medicine is very successful on every frontier. To admit systemic problems in any area is to cast doubt on the whole enterprise. You might therefore think that NIH is the last place one should think about holding demonstrations. But just the reverse is true. If five thousand people showed up there demanding an accounting of the actual benefits of that research system, demanding to know what real health benefits have been conferred on the public from the billions of wasted dollars funneled to that facility, something might start. A spark might go off. You might get, with further demonstrations, all sorts of fall-out. Researchers -- a few -- might start leaking information.

Q: A good idea.

A: People in suits standing as close to the buildings as the police will allow. People in business suits, in jogging suits, mothers and babies. Well-off people. Poor people. All sorts of people.

Q: What about the combined destructive power of a number of vaccines given to babies these days?

A: It is a travesty and a crime. There are no real studies of any depth which have been done on that. Again, the assumption is made that vaccines are safe, and therefore any number of vaccines given together are safe as well. But the truth is, vaccines are not safe. Therefore the potential damage increases when you give many of them in a short time period.

Q: Then we have the fall flu season.

A: Yes. As if only in the autumn do these germs float in to the US from Asia. The public swallows that premise. If it happens in April, it is a bad cold. If it happens in October, it is the flu.

Q: Do you regret having worked all those years in the vaccine field?

A: Yes. But after this interview, I'll regret it a little less. And I work in other ways. I give out information to certain people, when I think they will use it well.

Q: What is one thing you want the public to understand?

A: That the burden of proof in establishing the safety and efficacy of vaccines is on the people who manufacture and license them for public use. Just that. The burden of proof is not on you or me. And for proof you need well-designed long-term studies. You need extensive follow-up. You need to interview mothers and pay attention to what mothers say about their babies and what happens to them after vaccination. You need all these things. The things that are not there.

Q: The things that are not there.

A: Yes.

Q: To avoid any confusion, I'd like you to review, once more, the disease problems that vaccines can cause. Which diseases, how that happens.

A: We are basically talking about two potential harmful outcomes. One, the person gets the disease from the vaccine. He gets the disease which the vaccine is supposed to protect him from. Because, some version of the disease is in the vaccine to begin with. Or two, he doesn't get THAT disease, but at some later time, maybe right away, maybe not, he develops another condition which is caused by the vaccine. That condition could be autism, what's called autism, or it could be some other disease like meningitis. He could become mentally disabled.

Q: Is there any way to compare the relative frequency of these different outcomes?

A: No. Because the follow-up is poor. We can only guess. If you ask, out of a population of a hundred thousand children who get a measles vaccine, how many get the measles, and how many develop other problems from the vaccine, there is a no reliable answer. That is what I'm saying. Vaccines are superstitions. And with superstitions, you don't get facts you can use. You only get stories, most of which are designed to enforce the superstition. But, from many vaccine campaigns, we can piece together a narrative that does reveal some very disturbing things. People have been harmed. The harm is real, and it can be deep and it can mean death. The harm is NOT limited to a few cases, as we have been led to believe.In the US, there are groups of mothers who are testifying about autism and childhood vaccines. They are coming forward and standing up at meetings.They are essentially trying to fill in the gap that has been created by the researchers and doctors who turn their backs on the whole thing.

Q: Let me ask you this. If you took a child in, say, Boston and you raised that child with good nutritious food and he exercised every day and he was loved by his parents, and he didn't get the measles vaccine, what would be his health status compared with the average child in Boston who eats poorly and watches five hours of TV a day and gets the measles vaccine?

A: Of course there are many factors involved, but I would bet on the better health status for the first child. If he gets measles, if he gets it when he is nine, the chances are it will be much lighter than the measles the second child might get. I would bet on the first child every time.

Q: How long did you work with vaccines?

A: A long time. Longer than ten years.

Q: Looking back now, can you recall any good reason to say that vaccines are successful?

A: No, I can't. If I had a child now, the last thing I would allow is vaccination. I would move out of the state if I had to. I would change the family name. I would disappear. With my family. I'm not saying it would come to that. There are ways to sidestep the system with grace, if you know how to act. There are exemptions you can declare, in every state, based on religious and/or philosophic views. But if push came to shove, I would go on the move.

Q: And yet there are children everywhere who do get vaccines and appear to be healthy.

A: The operative word is "appear." What about all the children who can't focus on their studies? What about the children who have tantrums from time to time? What about the children who are not quite in possession of all their mental faculties? I know there are many causes for these things, but vaccines are one cause. I would not take the chance. I see no reason to take the chance. And frankly, I see no reason to allow the government to have the last word. Government medicine is, from my experience, often a contradiction in terms. You get one or the other, but not both.

Q: So we come to the level playing field.

A: Yes. Allow those who want the vaccines to take them. Allow the dissidents to decline to take them. But, as I said earlier, there is no level playing field if the field is strewn with lies. And when babies are involved, you have parents making all the decisions. Those parents need a heavy dose of truth. What about the child I spoke of who died from the DPT shot? What information did his parents act on? I can tell you it was heavily weighted. It was not real information.

Q: Medical PR people, in concert with the press, scare the hell out of parents with dire scenarios about what will happen if their kids don't get shots.

A: They make it seem a crime to refuse the vaccine. They equate it with bad parenting. You fight that with better information. It is always a challenge to buck the authorities. And only you can decide whether to do it. It is every person's responsibility to make up his mind. The medical cartel likes that bet. It is betting that the fear will win.

Dr. Mark Randall is the pseudonym of a vaccine researcher who worked for many years in the labs of major pharmaceutical houses and the US government's National Institutes of Health.

Mark retired during the last decade. He says he was "disgusted with what he discovered about vaccines."

As you know, since the beginning of nomorefakenews, I have been launching an attack against non-scientific and dangerous assertions about the safety and efficacy of vaccines.

Mark has been one of my sources.

He is a little reluctant to speak out, even under the cover of anonymity, but with the current push to make vaccines mandatory -- with penalties like quarantine lurking in the wings -- he has decided to break his silence.

He lives comfortably in retirement, but like many of my long-time sources, he has developed a conscience about his former work. Mark is well aware of the scope of the medical cartel and its goals of depopulation, mind control, and general debilitation of populations.

Jon Rappoport

What can I say? People who don't research for themselves live a lie.

[largejack]

And have you offered them any real proof that the vaccine is harmful? how does your daughter know everything? what you mean is that you have filled her mind with your own beliefs on the vaccine.

People do have a right to know about things but I think there tend to expect some form of proof or evidence, or at least a qualified opinion. You cant expect them to just believe you without something to back it all up.


Take a look at the ingredients of the vaccine that is enough to put me off off for life

[rowantk]

:mad:I have been shunned by some parents at my daughters local school, for advising a few of my parent friends, not to let their child have the vaccine that is planned, some time when the school opens after the summer break. More exposure needs to implemented to advise parents of the situation regarding these deadly vaccines. I do my best to inform them, but they look at me as if I am crazy for saying such things, and putting these ideas in their children's heads. My 10 year old daughter knows everything about what's going on regarding the deadly vaccine and she quite openly tells all her friends at school. I don't mind my daughter knowing about the vaccine, in fact I promote it, and so should other parents, not to scare them but, to inform them of the situation. They have a right to know, considering it's them that are being targeted first. Does anyone disagree with me ? I wonder.:confused:

Good work. Its crazy peoples reactions to this. Its just another opinion. All it is, it attacks their belief systems. They feel threatend when someone says the government could be bad!
But you wouldn't by a car without looking into it? You wouldn't drink a liquid you found in an unmarked bottle? So why the hell would you inject something you havent looked into?.......

[spaceman44]

Thank you for your responses, I have already drafted some information leaflets to distribute to parents at the school at the beginning of term, this includes details of previous outbreaks of swine flu in the past and I shall be ready for any confrontation.

[paolo]

Thank you for your responses, I have already drafted some information leaflets to distribute to parents at the school at the beginning of term, this includes details of previous outbreaks of swine flu in the past and I shall be ready for any confrontation.
Like to see some of your information.
This is something so near, so apparently endtimes, such propaganda, such pressure. You know the economy is going to go totally down the hole as the result of the swine flu vaccine and the resultant second wave
This is so blatantly obvious and issuant from the WHO downwards. The propaganda is relentless
Some senor official from the flu planning committee was quoted in the Guardian a couple of days ago as saying that schools should be vaccination centres as they provide a"logical and realistic centre for vaccination, as they contain a captive audience" That's approximately the right quote and very sinister

[lizzy]

And have you offered them any real proof that the vaccine is harmful? how does your daughter know everything? what you mean is that you have filled her mind with your own beliefs on the vaccine.

People do have a right to know about things but I think there tend to expect some form of proof or evidence, or at least a qualified opinion. You cant expect them to just believe you without something to back it all up.

Marpet, you are becoming a dangerous person to have around here.....I don't care that you think chemtrails don't exist or that the military is a fine upstanding and moral entity......BUT these weaponized vaccinations effect us and our families directly and you have the gall to come here and berate a concerned and informed parent . Who the fuck are you to tell anyone!!!!

edit.....sorry if this in anyway "derailed" this thread.....I won't be answering anything marpet posts here)

[ustane]

I sympathise, spaceman, I had a terrible time being convincing. People will react like that, they've been told for years it's good for them (tell a lie often enough it's believed). They can't get their heads around it that a malevolent intent is at the centre, it opens up a whole deeper conspiracy. The news is too bad. We're facing huge challenges. That's cool what you'e done with the leaflets etc, well done, all the best

[lizzy]

Like to see some of your information.
This is something so near, so apparently endtimes, such propaganda, such pressure. You know the economy is going to go totally down the hole as the result of the swine flu vaccine and the resultant second wave
This is so blatantly obvious and issuant from the WHO downwards. The propaganda is relentless
Some senor official from the flu planning committee was quoted in the Guardian a couple of days ago as saying that schools should be vaccination centres as they provide a"logical and realistic centre for vaccination, as they contain a captive audience" That's approximately the right quote and very sinister


Indeed paolo,.....I think this is a full on attack on our health and freedom. Even the msm is giving us info to it's unreliability and how totalitarian the shots will be administered. We will become the incubators ( fast breeders) of the more lethal strain that is said will emerge. It is those who receive the shot that are going to be the problem.

[rowantk]

I've been telling my friends and family about all of this. Most seem like they wont take it. Which is great! Apart from my sister who seems a little 'brainwashed' fingers crossed she wont.
A friend of mine supposingly had the flu a few weeks ago. He was sent Tamiflu in the post. He only took a tiny bit of it before it gave him the shits. He then stopped and got better on his own. :rolleyes:

[Ian2day]

A cull orchastrated by Reptillians is on the agenda.

[ustane]

And have you offered them any real proof that the vaccine is harmful? how does your daughter know everything? what you mean is that you have filled her mind with your own beliefs on the vaccine.

People do have a right to know about things but I think there tend to expect some form of proof or evidence, or at least a qualified opinion. You cant expect them to just believe you without something to back it all up.

Google video: "Dr Len Horowitz, In Lies We Trust", and

www.drlenhorowitz.com

'What they don't tell you about vaccincations' (also on the homepage on David's website) at

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2004/05/12/vaccination-dangers.aspx

Ghiislaine Lanctot MD who wrote the book 'The medical Mafia'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClqUcScwnn8 -
where David Rockerfella talks about population control

[tracker]

:mad:I have been shunned by some parents at my daughters local school, for advising a few of my parent friends, not to let their child have the vaccine that is planned, some time when the school opens after the summer break. More exposure needs to implemented to advise parents of the situation regarding these deadly vaccines. I do my best to inform them, but they look at me as if I am crazy for saying such things, and putting these ideas in their children's heads. My 10 year old daughter knows everything about what's going on regarding the deadly vaccine and she quite openly tells all her friends at school. I don't mind my daughter knowing about the vaccine, in fact I promote it, and so should other parents, not to scare them but, to inform them of the situation. They have a right to know, considering it's them that are being targeted first. Does anyone disagree with me ? I wonder.:confused:

I am sorry to hear you have been shunned and treated this way .

I am however wondering how you have told your daughter about this situation . I do not think it fair my self that some one so young should know about this stuff . After all now she will appear abnormal to those in her school . Going around saying "dont get the vaccines" can end up making her a school oddbod -- castout .the children will eventually shunn her as you have been shunned by their parents .

Fine ; if you are going to keep your daughter safe from these poisons by all means do so -------as i plan to do so aswell .

Yet it seems you have been desperate to walk around blurting out what you know , and if anything you should know what society is like , and now you have bought this down upon your child . ( boy is she going to pay for all this too as she has to be with them folks everday forthe next how many years )

Ok you could tell her that she doesnt need it because she has a good immune system because she eats good food and keeps healthy , but from how you have put this across ( correct me if im wrong ) that your daughter is going around telling every one not to have the vaccine , to which tends to indicate that she has all the gory details . something that I do not think is a good idea .

You could make it better though .

You could tell the adults that you were mistaken and read some hype and now dont believe it and will get the vaccination .

you dont have too , its just for your childs social life in school if you get my drift .
Otherwise , you know that their mentality is thick and slow and they dont have their own mind so why fight it ? and then bring your daughters social life into difficulties .

Im only saying --thats all .I dont mean any offence or anything bad towards you .

use the prison rules to move around in more easy .


see how here

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=76039

[leviathanstaar]

Facing their ingorance is real courage.

The pressure will seem insermountable, especially if the lesser characters among them decide you're really threatening thier beliefe structure

They may even attempt to stop you to bring you back into their paradigm so they feel safe again.

[hagbard_celine]

Google video: "Dr Len Horowitz, In Lies We Trust", and

www.drlenhorowitz.com

'What they don't tell you about vaccincations' (also on the homepage on David's website) at

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2004/05/12/vaccination-dangers.aspx

Ghiislaine Lanctot MD who wrote the book 'The medical Mafia'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClqUcScwnn8 -
where David Rockerfella talks about population control

Nice one, Ustane.:) This selection fullfills Marpat's request criteria when he asked:

People do have a right to know about things but I think there tend to expect some form of proof or evidence, or at least a qualified opinion. You cant expect them to just believe you without something to back it all up.

[paolo]

And still the dreary sheep, like those supposed to have lied to the helpline to secure themselves in advance the Tamiflu - the worried well deficient brained idiots - still these people will be seen lining up for the shot, like jews lining up for a shower at Auschwitz - or at least, so the story goes

[tracker]

EVERY ONE WHO HAS REPPLIED TO THIS THREAD HAS MISSED THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF ALL , WHY NOT READ MY POST .
Seems like you lot are so cought up in your own trash and how you think you can help this person that you have all missed ther most important part of this thread , and that my dweewy fwiends is his child .


Stuff what the people have the right to know .
stuff what you should and shouldnt present to them .

if you took care to note the details of what is happening you might have spotted it .
To give you a clue look at my 1st post .:cool:

[tracker]

:mad:I have been shunned by some parents at my daughters local school, for advising a few of my parent friends, not to let their child have the vaccine that is planned, some time when the school opens after the summer break. More exposure needs to implemented to advise parents of the situation regarding these deadly vaccines. I do my best to inform them, but they look at me as if I am crazy for saying such things, and putting these ideas in their children's heads. My 10 year old daughter knows everything about what's going on regarding the deadly vaccine and she quite openly tells all her friends at school. I don't mind my daughter knowing about the vaccine, in fact I promote it, and so should other parents, not to scare them but, to inform them of the situation. They have a right to know, considering it's them that are being targeted first. Does anyone disagree with me ? I wonder.:confused:

There is some good news .
The tv news teams are now braodcasting the fact that DRs / health heads are now erging the health authorities to with draw their claims and batches of tammy flu / vaccines .

this is because they do more harm than good .

so the next time you here this on the news , you can then tell your family ,

how parranoid they are
how mad they are
how their parranoia is putting your kids health at wrisk -------what with wanting them to have jabs at every time they here a tv news clip of swine flu .
you can tell ya bird that her misguided parrnoia about a simple cold does not justify her putting the kids health at wrisk by wanting them to have a jab that can course more harm than good.
you could also tell them all that you no longer want your kids to see them because their state of minds are bad for the kids well being , and that your misses is lucky that you dont kick her out after this state of affairs .

give it back to them , and rub it in real deep .:cool:

[hagbard_celine]

I am sorry to hear you have been shunned and treated this way .

I am however wondering how you have told your daughter about this situation . I do not think it fair my self that some one so young should know about this stuff . After all now she will appear abnormal to those in her school . Going around saying "dont get the vaccines" can end up making her a school oddbod -- castout .the children will eventually shunn her as you have been shunned by their parents .

Fine ; if you are going to keep your daughter safe from these poisons by all means do so -------as i plan to do so aswell .

Yet it seems you have been desperate to walk around blurting out what you know , and if anything you should know what society is like , and now you have bought this down upon your child . ( boy is she going to pay for all this too as she has to be with them folks everday forthe next how many years )

Ok you could tell her that she doesnt need it because she has a good immune system because she eats good food and keeps healthy , but from how you have put this across ( correct me if im wrong ) that your daughter is going around telling every one not to have the vaccine , to which tends to indicate that she has all the gory details . something that I do not think is a good idea .

You could make it better though .

You could tell the adults that you were mistaken and read some hype and now dont believe it and will get the vaccination .

you dont have too , its just for your childs social life in school if you get my drift .
Otherwise , you know that their mentality is thick and slow and they dont have their own mind so why fight it ? and then bring your daughters social life into difficulties .

Im only saying --thats all .I dont mean any offence or anything bad towards you .

use the prison rules to move around in more easy .


see how here

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=76039

That's most unfair, Tracker.:( If Spaceman's kid is being teased by other kids then the only people who need to change their behavior are the kids who are doing the teasing. I got this shit when I was at school myself. I was being picked on by bigger boys and the welfare staff were almost falling over themselves to suggest ways I could change my attitude and demeanour to stop the other kids from bullying me. Not one of them suggested something that I think is obvious and just: that the kids doing the bullying should change their ways... you know... erm.... like stop bullying me!:rolleyes:

The logic behind saying that the one on the receiving end needs to be the one to make amends is the same logic as the rapist saying that his victim was "asking for it."

[tracker]

That's most unfair, Tracker.:( If Spaceman's kid is being teased by other kids then the only people who need to change their behavior are the kids who are doing the teasing. I got this shit when I was at school myself. I was being picked on by bigger boys and the welfare staff were almost falling over themselves to suggest ways I could change my attitude and demeanour to stop the other kids from bullying me. Not one of them suggested something that I think is obvious and just: that the kids doing the bullying should change their ways... you know... erm.... like stop bullying me!:rolleyes:

The logic behind saying that the one on the receiving end needs to be the one to make amends is the same logic as the rapist saying that his victim was "asking for it."

go on then hagbag --go up that school and change all those kids -- go on !
until then hagbag , the bloke has to learn that placing his kid in the same situation he is in isnt actually fair .
Im not scorning the man but I do have my right to a view on this , and in my view , by all means inform kids , there is a way hagbag --its called tact .

until then hagbag -- why dont you go up there and sort it out ?
you cant can you ?
so why all this -------that wasnt fair tracker ?

at the end of the day that kid now faces years of ridicule , and if he doesnt like it , ffs what about his kid ?

your past has nothing to do with this , his real concern should be his kid , not his own pride and how he has been shunned despite the fact that I do feel for the guy .
with all respect , not only has he bought this upon himself through aimless blurting things out , he has now placed his kid in the middle of the fireing range , so please dont get at me -----just because I can point out the obviouse -----that you have tend to miss .
wether its fair or not --------its the truth .

I have offered a way for him to make this right for his kid as where your pointless pampering hasnt actually offered anything at all apart from cotton wool and a wetnurse .
which at the end of the day ------doesnt actually fix his problems now does it ?

I respect your remark , but it is ------like your post and its aplication ------pointless .
it hasnt made any difference to his life or his kids , now until then
if you really think you are doing this guy a favour
give him some ideas to make it better or go up their your self and change those kids .

because if you cant do iether ,
dont get at me .( with all respect )

[siriusc]

I would say make sure your child understands that they are being picked on because the other children have been conditioned by their parents and society. Explain that they may want to consider whether to vocalize their feelings on the vaccines. You did the right thing, I just went through that with my daughter and her doctor, I did however warn her that she might face this from her friends and school so she should think carefully about what she wants to discuss with them.

Let the others continue to be brainwashed if that's what they choose your child will be fine as long as they understand what is fueling the behavior of the other children and parents.

[hawk]

I have tried twice now in the past 10 mins to print out that interview on pg 1. Then I get a notice saying that Mozilla firefox has crashed. Has anyone else had this happen?
:confused:

[biblegirl]

hey have you seen this thread? might be helpful

the OP:
http://davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16351
A NewsTarget investigation has revealed that the FDA knew as early as 2003 that Human Papilloma Virus (HPV) was not linked to cervical cancer. Despite this knowledge, the FDA, along with key pharmaceutical companies, has continued to push for the use of HPV vaccinations as a defense against cervical cancer, even when its own research showed no link exists.

This week NewsTarget publishes "The Great HPV Vaccine Hoax Exposed," a special report that cites numerous FDA documents and clinical studies indicating that HPV vaccines are not only ineffective but possibly dangerous. According to the report, the Gardasil vaccine has been linked to a 44.6% increase in precancerous lesions in some women, raising serious doubts over the sensibility of mandatory vaccination policies.

http://www.transworldnews.com/NewsSt...d=30969&cat=10

[crocoduck]

And still the dreary sheep, like those supposed to have lied to the helpline to secure themselves in advance the Tamiflu - the worried well deficient brained idiots - still these people will be seen lining up for the shot, like jews lining up for a shower at Auschwitz - or at least, so the story goes

Dude, you're selling homeopathic products. You're not in a position to call anyone else an idiot besides anyone dumb enough to buy that crap from you. Seriously.

[crocoduck]

:mad:I have been shunned by some parents at my daughters local school, for advising a few of my parent friends, not to let their child have the vaccine that is planned, some time when the school opens after the summer break. More exposure needs to implemented to advise parents of the situation regarding these deadly vaccines. I do my best to inform them, but they look at me as if I am crazy for saying such things, and putting these ideas in their children's heads. My 10 year old daughter knows everything about what's going on regarding the deadly vaccine and she quite openly tells all her friends at school. I don't mind my daughter knowing about the vaccine, in fact I promote it, and so should other parents, not to scare them but, to inform them of the situation. They have a right to know, considering it's them that are being targeted first. Does anyone disagree with me ? I wonder.:confused:

I don't think it's wrong for other parents to shun you because you're telling ridiculous lies to them, and those lies stop being so incredibly funny when they can result in things like their children being infected with an easily preventable disease.

Frankly, I don't think the parents are going far enough. You should have to send your kids to your own school specifically for the unfortunate children of parents with beliefs such as your's - at your own expense. That or just deport you to whatever country will have you.

[patrish]

Just make sure your child has plenty of vitamin D3 during the winter months.

I have the same problems with my grandchild, but am not in a position to make a difference

Sorry to say i believe there are some disinformation agents on this thread - you know who you are

Pat xx

[scotty99]

Well Im having the same problem, I have decided that I can sleep at night by doing my best to inform them....can they sleep at night after happily carting their kids off to get an toxic laden immune weakening jab, that will cause long term health problems?

On their own heads be it. After the reports of Tamiflu nearly killing kids, you would have to be f**kin stupid to have the swine flu jabs. I dont preach to them , i just give them a print out of this...and say "There's Mercury in vaccinations...now read this"

http://www.vaccinationnews.com/scandals/feb_15_02/comparison_symptoms.htm


Nuff said

[crocoduck]

"There's Mercury in vaccinations...now read this"

http://www.vaccinationnews.com/scandals/feb_15_02/comparison_symptoms.htm


Nuff said

Exactly! Nuff said. Because there is no mercury in vaccines. Thimerosol was removed nearly a decade ago. So it's "nuff said" in the sense that saying such a thing is an easy tell that you are lying.

What's even worse about this anti-vaccination business (and it IS a business) is that it causes a backlash against reasonable concerns actual scientists might have against particular vaccines for reasons that are based in reality.

[jakemaverick]

i applaud what u are doing and still appalled by sheeples reaction to it...although not realised surprised!

u keep talking the way u do u might end up getting tortured......try reading what happened/ is happening to me!!!

JM

[largejack]

Exactly! Nuff said. Because there is no mercury in vaccines. Thimerosol was removed nearly a decade ago. So it's "nuff said" in the sense that saying such a thing is an easy tell that you are lying.

What's even worse about this anti-vaccination business (and it IS a business) is that it causes a backlash against reasonable concerns actual scientists might have against particular vaccines for reasons that are based in reality.

Tell me the ingredients of the swine flu vaccination then and prove to me that mercury is not present????

[antinwo]

crocodile shill, crocodile shill:D

[crocoduck]

Tell me the ingredients of the swine flu vaccination then and prove to me that mercury is not present????

What I was referring to was the silly belief that vaccines contain it generally, and the fashionable target for anti-vaxers seems to be the MMR vaccine, which is what I was referring to.

The H1N1 vaccine is currently in production, so I'm not sure why you're assuming there actually is a finished product.

But when it is, what would you accept as proof that mercury is not present? Would anything convince you at all?

[crocoduck]

crocodile shill, crocodile shill:D

That may be, but what difference would that make? Shouldn't claims stand or fall on their own merit, regardless of who happens to be making them? I think so, and that's why ad hominem attacks are flawed attempts at reasoning.

[motleyhoo]

That may be, but what difference would that make? Shouldn't claims stand or fall on their own merit, regardless of who happens to be making them? I think so, and that's why ad hominem attacks are flawed attempts at reasoning.

I think you should camp out in front of your local health department for two weeks in advance to ensure that you're first in line to get the triple injections they're saying we all need. Let us know in a couple of years how all that worked out. As for me, I think I'll forfeit having some medical hack inject some unknown concoction of chemicals into my body that were created by the same company that was caught red-handed tainting other vaccines with deadly bird flu and shipping them to 18 different countries. They say ignorance is bliss. You must be living in Shangrala.

.

[scotty99]

What I was referring to was the silly belief that vaccines contain it generally, and the fashionable target for anti-vaxers seems to be the MMR vaccine, which is what I was referring to.

The H1N1 vaccine is currently in production, so I'm not sure why you're assuming there actually is a finished product.

But when it is, what would you accept as proof that mercury is not present? Would anything convince you at all?


Currently in production??? Why was the H1N1 vaccine patiented in 2007!!??

http://uncensored.co.nz/2009/07/30/baxter-team-patented-the-%E2%80%9Cswine-flu%E2%80%9D-vaccine-two-years-before-outbreak/

As your in the US Baxter will be making your vaccine.have you checked out their track record? HIV contaminated products .whoops...........bird flu contaminated products....whoops..........


And yes not every vaccine has mercury based products, but will have some type of stabilizer and preservatives..but they are full of goodness right?............

http://www.vaccinationnews.com/dailynews/may2001/whatsinvax.htm

You say theres no mercury based ingredients in the H1N1 vaccine, then you say its still in production, so you dont know:confused:

[antinwo]

What I was referring to was the silly belief that vaccines contain it generally, and the fashionable target for anti-vaxers seems to be the MMR vaccine, which is what I was referring to.

The H1N1 vaccine is currently in production, so I'm not sure why you're assuming there actually is a finished product.

But when it is, what would you accept as proof that mercury is not present? Would anything convince you at all?

But these vaccines do contain mercury why deny that fact???

[hagbard_celine]

I don't think it's wrong for other parents to shun you because you're telling ridiculous lies to them, and those lies stop being so incredibly funny when they can result in things like their children being infected with an easily preventable disease.

Frankly, I don't think the parents are going far enough. You should have to send your kids to your own school specifically for the unfortunate children of parents with beliefs such as your's - at your own expense. That or just deport you to whatever country will have you.

Amazing how Skeptics complain about religious bigotry and then behave exactly as religious extremeists do and justify their positionin the very same ways; yet they seem oblivious to their own hypocrisy.:eek::rolleyes:

[hagbard_celine]

Dude, you're selling homeopathic products. You're not in a position to call anyone else an idiot besides anyone dumb enough to buy that crap from you. Seriously.

Are you Ben Goldacre by any chance?:D;)

[crocoduck]

I think you should camp out in front of your local health department for two weeks in advance to ensure that you're first in line to get the triple injections they're saying we all need. Let us know in a couple of years how all that worked out. As for me, I think I'll forfeit having some medical hack inject some unknown concoction of chemicals into my body that were created by the same company that was caught red-handed tainting other vaccines with deadly bird flu and shipping them to 18 different countries. They say ignorance is bliss. You must be living in Shangrala.

.

I've been keeping up with my vaccinations since birth, and can report to you now that I've suffered no health complications from it. Additionally, I can assure you that I haven't suffered from any of the diseases which were so common before vaccines, back when life expectancy in all parts of the world were so much lower than they are today.

And you didn't respond to what I said at all, which makes me wonder why you bothered. What difference would it make if I were a "shill?" Do you seriously believe that would make me automatically incorrect?

[crocoduck]

Currently in production??? Why was the H1N1 vaccine patiented in 2007!!??

http://uncensored.co.nz/2009/07/30/baxter-team-patented-the-%E2%80%9Cswine-flu%E2%80%9D-vaccine-two-years-before-outbreak/

As your in the US Baxter will be making your vaccine.have you checked out their track record? HIV contaminated products .whoops...........bird flu contaminated products....whoops..........


And yes not every vaccine has mercury based products, but will have some type of stabilizer and preservatives..but they are full of goodness right?............

http://www.vaccinationnews.com/dailynews/may2001/whatsinvax.htm

You say theres no mercury based ingredients in the H1N1 vaccine, then you say its still in production, so you dont know:confused:

I am in the US, and the CDC is listing the H1N1 vaccine as currently in production. This may not be the case in other countries.

I'd be happy to look at any sources you have for your claims, aside from those from the anti-vaccination lobby / business, of course.

Preservatives are an incredibly small proportion of the contents of the vaccine. And besides, did you know that table salt contains CHLORINE (which can kill you)? But you need salt to survive. Funny that.

[crocoduck]

But these vaccines do contain mercury why deny that fact???

Citation needed.

[crocoduck]

Amazing how Skeptics complain about religious bigotry and then behave exactly as religious extremeists do and justify their positionin the very same ways; yet they seem oblivious to their own hypocrisy.:eek::rolleyes:

This isn't a matter of religious bigotry. It's a matter of preventing preventable harm to innocent people.

I don't care if you believe in your woo, just as long as you don't actually cause preventable harm to others. You people just need to find a way to reconcile your beliefs with actually getting vaccinated if you want to live in a reasonable society*.

EDIT *unless a preexisting condition would prevent you from receiving vaccination. That's what herd immunity is for, not the leaches who claim "philosophical" or religious exemptions.

[crocoduck]

Are you Ben Goldacre by any chance?:D;)

No. You must have a very sheltered life if you think he's the only one who would point out such an obvious truth as that though.

[vetis]

http://wikileaks.org/wiki/WHO:_Observations_on_Vaccine_Production_Technologi es_and_Factors_Potentially_Influencing_Pandemic_In fluenza_Vaccine_Choices_in_Developing_Countries%2C _2009

quite a co-incidence they should produce that just before a pandemic outbreak..

[lizzy]

Citation needed.
yes, your driving the wrong way on this off ramp.:eek:

[cruise4]

Coming out the woodwork again aren't they?

[crocoduck]

yes, your driving the wrong way on this off ramp.:eek:

So is requiring some kind of evidence the "wrong way" to your way of seeing things?

[cruise4]

I noticed you have posted two links for what you obviously regard as pro-vaccination articles crocodick... have you actually read through the threads there and watched the videos, a number of which are by doctors with years of experience? Homeopathy is used quite successfully by vets, as well as people. Only you can prove something to you but the 'evidence' has been placed in front of you. But will you ever see it? What would satisfy your criteria for evidence?

[boots]

yes, your driving the wrong way on this off ramp.:eek:


Muwahahahaha.

Nice lizzy:)

cruise4... I noticed you have posted two links for what you obviously regard as pro-vaccination articles crocodick... have you actually read through the threads there and watched the videos, a number of which are by doctors with years of experience? Homeopathy is used quite successfully by vets, as well as people. Only you can prove something to you but the 'evidence' has been placed in front of you. But will you ever see it? What would satisfy your criteria for evidence?

More than 2 cruise 4. This member has been posting loads of links in the negative.

How much do they pay you crocodile??? or you just bloody stupid.

.

[motleyhoo]

I've been keeping up with my vaccinations since birth, and can report to you now that I've suffered no health complications from it. Additionally, I can assure you that I haven't suffered from any of the diseases which were so common before vaccines, back when life expectancy in all parts of the world were so much lower than they are today.

And you didn't respond to what I said at all, which makes me wonder why you bothered. What difference would it make if I were a "shill?" Do you seriously believe that would make me automatically incorrect?

The fact that you have had so many chemicals pumped into your blood stream explains a lot. And just exactly what was it that you need me to respond to?

.

[antinwo]

The fact that you have had so many chemicals pumped into your blood stream explains a lot. And just exactly what was it that you need me to respond to?

.


Ses it all doesn't it you can't get any more dumbed down than croc. Must be all that mercury:D

[spaceman44]

Hey thanks to you guys who support me in this nightmare, coz that's what it is, and the sooner more people realise what's coming the better. My child may suffer some ridicule at school but at the end of the day, with all my power she will survive this!! Thanks again.

Carl (Spaceman44)

[crocoduck]

I noticed you have posted two links for what you obviously regard as pro-vaccination articles crocodick... have you actually read through the threads there and watched the videos, a number of which are by doctors with years of experience? Homeopathy is used quite successfully by vets, as well as people. Only you can prove something to you but the 'evidence' has been placed in front of you. But will you ever see it? What would satisfy your criteria for evidence?

I don't know what you mean by pro-vaccination articles. I posted articles based on science, so they're pro-science. That might be where we differ.

Show me the best example of a double blinded study with proper controls that shows homeopathy to work better than a placebo. Of course, it would need to be done by a neutral party and not by the "alternative medicine" industry.

[crocoduck]

Muwahahahaha.

Nice lizzy:)



More than 2 cruise 4. This member has been posting loads of links in the negative.

How much do they pay you crocodile??? or you just bloody stupid.

.

Even if "they" pay me, why should that matter? You should be able to disprove my claims with actual evidence regardless, right? Right.

[crocoduck]

The fact that you have had so many chemicals pumped into your blood stream explains a lot. And just exactly what was it that you need me to respond to?

.

Guess what blood is made of?

Chemicals!

Oh noes! You have chemicals in your bloodstream too!

[shodan]

ok I've deleted the last few comments on this thread, lets get it back on topic and keep the insults out of it, thanks.

[boots]

Even if "they" pay me, why should that matter? You should be able to disprove my claims with actual evidence regardless, right? Right.


Too easy. You want more then I can give you heaps.

http://www.whale.to/vaccines/gardasil_h.html
GARDASIL (Merck (http://www.whale.to/vaccines/merck.htm) cervical cancer vaccine HPV4)
[back] The Vaccines (http://www.whale.to/vaccines/vaccines.html)http://www.whale.to/a/image/merck.png (http://www.whale.to/vaccine/hpv_vaccine.html)
[The latest killer (http://www.whale.to/vaccine/gardasil_deaths.html) (27 have died as of August, 2008 USA1 (http://www.cynthiajanak.com/20081113Gardasiladifferentway.html)) disguised as safe (http://www.whale.to/vaccines/safer.html) and effective (http://www.whale.to/a/lie_effective.html), and a preventer, not cause, of Genital warts (http://www.whale.to/vaccine/vaers_warts_gardasil.html). If you want to trust them (Allopathy Inc) (http://www.whale.to/a/allopathy_h.html) over Human Papilloma virus (HPV) then you should know they haven't even proven any virus causes hepatitis, yet have lucrative tests and even a vaccine! (see (http://www.whale.to/a/hepatitis_tests_h.html)), and they like to use viruses as a cover for their disease causing products (1 (http://www.whale.to/v/polio2.htm),2 (http://www.whale.to/v/poisons.html),3 (http://www.whale.to/a/pharma_aids.html),4 (http://www.whale.to/w/bse.html),5 (http://www.whale.to/v/meningitis8.html),6 (http://www.whale.to/v/spanish_flu.html),7 (http://www.whale.to/a/smon_h.html)...), such as other vaccines (1 (http://www.whale.to/vaccines/cancer.html)) and drugs which are known causes of female cancers(1 (http://www.whale.to/a/tamoxifen_h.html), 2 (http://www.whale.to/drugs/hrt1.html), 3 (http://www.whale.to/drugs/pill.html) & see (http://www.whale.to/vaccines/lobato.html)), so with one (hidden) hand they cause the cancers, while with the other they sell you pseudo-cancer 'virus' insurance (see (http://www.whale.to/a/virus.html)).
Also, not only have they suppressed dozens of non-toxic effective cancer therapies (see (http://www.whale.to/a/cancer_c.html)), they have suppressed many non-Allopathic cures for viral infections such as Vitamin C, known for 57 years (1, (http://www.whale.to/a/levy4.html) 2 (http://www.whale.to/m/klenner.html)), herbal medicine (1 (http://www.whale.to/vaccine/paudarco.html), 2 (http://www.whale.to/y/herbal1.html)), Oxygen Therapy (http://www.whale.to/c/oxygen.html).and Electronic Medicine (http://www.whale.to/w/electronic.html). The knowledge and use of which would mean no one would fear cancer (see (http://www.whale.to/a/fear_dis.html)).
But that would be bad for business, and the Merck (http://www.whale.to/vaccines/merck.htm)killer bandits need to recoup some gold after their great Vioxx (http://www.whale.to/a/vioxx_h.html)massacre (27,000 heart attacks and sudden cardiac deaths) caused by Vioxx, so another raid is in progress, and if you wanted any company to design an infertility vaccine (see: 1 (http://www.whale.to/vaccine/gardasil_shot_implications.html), 2 (http://www.whale.to/vaccine/barr.html)) it would be Merck (1 (http://www.whale.to/vaccines/horowitz1.html))----'Tested on 100,000 ten year old girls in Africa.' (1 (http://www.whale.to/vaccine/gardasil223.html)). Not the first vaccine suspected of being used for that purpose (1 (http://www.whale.to/m/sterile.html)). Vaccine genocide (http://www.whale.to/v/biowarfare.html) shows they are capable of it, along with why they invented the HIV virus (see (http://www.whale.to/b/rappoport.html)), while they took 20 years to tell everyone Pellagra wasn't caused by one (see (http://www.whale.to/a/pellagra_h.html)), and they certainly don't want you knowing smallpox vaccination never saved a single life but was killing 25,000 infants every year at its height (see (http://www.whale.to/a/deathssmallpox.html)).
Not a story to inspire great confidence in this sodium borate (http://www.whale.to/vaccine/sodium_borate.html), Aluminium (http://www.whale.to/y/aluminium.htm) and Tween 80 (http://www.whale.to/v/tween_80.html) containing vaccine (see (http://www.whale.to/vaccine/gardasil_pi.pdf)). Run into the bushes with your kids and hide (see (http://www.whale.to/vaccine/flee.html)), a long tradition of African and Australian Aborigine mothers when the vaccine man calls. http://www.whale.to/b/images/pics/icon_wink.gif
Merck spent $841,000 for Internet ads alone relating to HPV in the first quarter of 2006 -- months before the FDA had even approved Gardasil (1 (http://www.whale.to/vaccine/merck_prom.html))]

Quotes (http://www.whale.to/vaccines/gardasil_q.html)
Media stories (http://www.whale.to/vaccine/gardasil_damage.html)
Articles (http://www.whale.to/vaccine/gardasil_a.html)
VAERS (http://www.whale.to/vaccine/vaers_gardasil.html)
VAERS Genital warts (http://www.whale.to/vaccine/vaers_warts_gardasil.html)http://www.whale.to/vaccine/news018a.jpg (http://www.whale.to/vaccine/my_girl_died.html)
Citations (http://www.whale.to/vaccine/gardasil_citations.html)
Data sheet (http://www.whale.to/vaccine/hpvmer060806LB.pdf)
Gardasil deaths (http://www.whale.to/vaccine/gardasil_deaths.html)
Gardasil Vaccine - side effects reporting (http://www.whale.to/vaccine/gardasil_vaccine.html)

[crocoduck]

Too easy. You want more then I can give you heaps.

Certainly, all serious studies start with intros like "The latest killer."

Seriously now, go ahead with actual studies any time now. Obviously screeds from the "alternative medicine" industry wouldn't count as actual studies. But go ahead with it then. Thanks.

[motleyhoo]

Guess what blood is made of?

Chemicals!

Oh noes! You have chemicals in your bloodstream too!

Yeah, I do have chemicals in my bloodstream, but they are there naturally and were not created in a laboratory by a company that has already been caught conducting fraudulent activities.

I really have no idea what you are arguing about unless you just like to argue. You seem to be saying that it is better to let someone inject syringes full of unknown and suspect liquids into your bloodstream than to not, in which case you'd be better off taking a piss into a running fan because that makes absolutely no sense to anyone not brainwashed by the medical establishment.

.

[boots]

Certainly, all serious studies start with intros like "The latest killer."

Seriously now, go ahead with actual studies any time now. Obviously screeds from the "alternative medicine" industry wouldn't count as actual studies. But go ahead with it then. Thanks.

What do you want this info for???

To learn or what.

So seriously these links are from MD.


Russell L. Blaylock, M.D. (http://www.whale.to/a/blaylock_h.html)
Hilary Butler
(http://www.whale.to/vaccines/butler3.html) Buchwald MD, Dr. * (http://www.whale.to/vaccines/buchwald.html)
Alan Cantwell, M.D. (http://www.whale.to/c/cantwell_alan.html)
Harris Coulter (http://www.whale.to/vaccines/coulter.html)
Eleanor McBean (http://www.whale.to/v/mcbean.html)
Dr. Buchwald MD (http://www.whale.to/vaccines/buchwald.html)
Harold Buttram, MD (http://www.whale.to/vaccines/buttram.htm)
Dr Jayne Donegan, MB (http://www.whale.to/w/donegan1.html)
Dr Dan Duffy DC (http://www.whale.to/m/duffy.html)
Kris Gaublomme, MD (http://www.whale.to/vaccines/ivn.html)
Greier, MR and Greier, DA (http://www.whale.to/a/geier1.html)
David Kirby (http://www.whale.to/vaccines/kirby_h.html)
Archie Kalokerinos MD. (http://www.whale.to/vaccines/kalokerinos.html)
Robert F. Kennedy, Jr (http://www.whale.to/vaccine/kennedy_r_h.html)
Guylain Lanctot, MD (http://www.whale.to/vaccines/lanctot2.html)
Dr Robert Mendelsohn MD (http://www.whale.to/v/mendelsohn.html)
Neil Miller (http://www.whale.to/vaccines/miller.html)
Clifford G. Miller (http://www.whale.to/a/miller_h.html) Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA (http://www.whale.to/vaccine/nakken_h.html)

Russell L. Blaylock, M.D. (http://www.whale.to/a/blaylock_h.html)
Hilary Butler
(http://www.whale.to/vaccines/butler3.html) Buchwald MD, Dr. * (http://www.whale.to/vaccines/buchwald.html)
Alan Cantwell, M.D. (http://www.whale.to/c/cantwell_alan.html)
Harris Coulter (http://www.whale.to/vaccines/coulter.html)
Eleanor McBean (http://www.whale.to/v/mcbean.html)
Dr. Buchwald MD (http://www.whale.to/vaccines/buchwald.html)
Harold Buttram, MD (http://www.whale.to/vaccines/buttram.htm)
Dr Jayne Donegan, MB (http://www.whale.to/w/donegan1.html)
Dr Dan Duffy DC (http://www.whale.to/m/duffy.html)
Kris Gaublomme, MD (http://www.whale.to/vaccines/ivn.html)
Greier, MR and Greier, DA (http://www.whale.to/a/geier1.html)
David Kirby (http://www.whale.to/vaccines/kirby_h.html)
Archie Kalokerinos MD. (http://www.whale.to/vaccines/kalokerinos.html)
Robert F. Kennedy, Jr (http://www.whale.to/vaccine/kennedy_r_h.html)
Guylain Lanctot, MD (http://www.whale.to/vaccines/lanctot2.html)
Dr Robert Mendelsohn MD (http://www.whale.to/v/mendelsohn.html)
Neil Miller (http://www.whale.to/vaccines/miller.html)
Clifford G. Miller (http://www.whale.to/a/miller_h.html) Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA (http://www.whale.to/vaccine/nakken_h.html)


There is so much information out there, it's astounding. You see you wont see your average Doc. (WHO hasn't done any independent research.) thinking much, just taking the Big Pharma lie and the MSM repeaters.

[crocoduck]

Yeah, I do have chemicals in my bloodstream, but they are there naturally and were not created in a laboratory by a company that has already been caught conducting fraudulent activities.

I really have no idea what you are arguing about unless you just like to argue. You seem to be saying that it is better to let someone inject syringes full of unknown and suspect liquids into your bloodstream than to not, in which case you'd be better off taking a piss into a running fan because that makes absolutely no sense to anyone not brainwashed by the medical establishment.

.

Arsenic is natural. Maybe you should try that. Hey, it must be good, it's natural!

Learn. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalistic_fallacy)

There's no need to try to make up what I "seem to be saying." You can just read what I actually say. If that's too difficult for you to do and to respond to, I guess that means you need to invent what I "seem to be saying." LOL!

[crocoduck]

What do you want this info for???

To learn or what.

So seriously these links are from MD.


Russell L. Blaylock, M.D. (http://www.whale.to/a/blaylock_h.html)
Hilary Butler
(http://www.whale.to/vaccines/butler3.html) Buchwald MD, Dr. * (http://www.whale.to/vaccines/buchwald.html)
Alan Cantwell, M.D. (http://www.whale.to/c/cantwell_alan.html)
Harris Coulter (http://www.whale.to/vaccines/coulter.html)
Eleanor McBean (http://www.whale.to/v/mcbean.html)
Dr. Buchwald MD (http://www.whale.to/vaccines/buchwald.html)
Harold Buttram, MD (http://www.whale.to/vaccines/buttram.htm)
Dr Jayne Donegan, MB (http://www.whale.to/w/donegan1.html)
Dr Dan Duffy DC (http://www.whale.to/m/duffy.html)
Kris Gaublomme, MD (http://www.whale.to/vaccines/ivn.html)
Greier, MR and Greier, DA (http://www.whale.to/a/geier1.html)
David Kirby (http://www.whale.to/vaccines/kirby_h.html)
Archie Kalokerinos MD. (http://www.whale.to/vaccines/kalokerinos.html)
Robert F. Kennedy, Jr (http://www.whale.to/vaccine/kennedy_r_h.html)
Guylain Lanctot, MD (http://www.whale.to/vaccines/lanctot2.html)
Dr Robert Mendelsohn MD (http://www.whale.to/v/mendelsohn.html)
Neil Miller (http://www.whale.to/vaccines/miller.html)
Clifford G. Miller (http://www.whale.to/a/miller_h.html) Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA (http://www.whale.to/vaccine/nakken_h.html)

Russell L. Blaylock, M.D. (http://www.whale.to/a/blaylock_h.html)
Hilary Butler
(http://www.whale.to/vaccines/butler3.html) Buchwald MD, Dr. * (http://www.whale.to/vaccines/buchwald.html)
Alan Cantwell, M.D. (http://www.whale.to/c/cantwell_alan.html)
Harris Coulter (http://www.whale.to/vaccines/coulter.html)
Eleanor McBean (http://www.whale.to/v/mcbean.html)
Dr. Buchwald MD (http://www.whale.to/vaccines/buchwald.html)
Harold Buttram, MD (http://www.whale.to/vaccines/buttram.htm)
Dr Jayne Donegan, MB (http://www.whale.to/w/donegan1.html)
Dr Dan Duffy DC (http://www.whale.to/m/duffy.html)
Kris Gaublomme, MD (http://www.whale.to/vaccines/ivn.html)
Greier, MR and Greier, DA (http://www.whale.to/a/geier1.html)
David Kirby (http://www.whale.to/vaccines/kirby_h.html)
Archie Kalokerinos MD. (http://www.whale.to/vaccines/kalokerinos.html)
Robert F. Kennedy, Jr (http://www.whale.to/vaccine/kennedy_r_h.html)
Guylain Lanctot, MD (http://www.whale.to/vaccines/lanctot2.html)
Dr Robert Mendelsohn MD (http://www.whale.to/v/mendelsohn.html)
Neil Miller (http://www.whale.to/vaccines/miller.html)
Clifford G. Miller (http://www.whale.to/a/miller_h.html) Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA (http://www.whale.to/vaccine/nakken_h.html)


There is so much information out there, it's astounding. You see you wont see your average Doc. (WHO hasn't done any independent research.) thinking much, just taking the Big Pharma lie and the MSM repeaters.




I had asked for actual studies, not just a list made up by a single woo-peddling source! LOL

Anyway, this is just an appeal to authority, which is another logical fallacy and is not actual evidence. Let's see the evidence.

[boots]

I had asked for actual studies, not just a list made up by a single woo-peddling source! LOL

Anyway, this is just an appeal to authority, which is another logical fallacy and is not actual evidence. Let's see the evidence.

You can LOL all you want, it's what is to be expected of an idiot who is to tunnelled visioned to see beyond what the MSM tell him.

Mmm and here we have MD's and PHd's who write papers and have case studies and you call it woo. Really shows your mentality.

Lets not forget this.

Home (http://www.whale.to/vaccines.html) DPT (http://www.whale.to/vaccine/law7.html)
Flu vaccines (http://www.whale.to/vaccine/l/flu.html)
MMR/MR
(http://www.whale.to/vaccine/law8.html)Polio vaccines (http://www.whale.to/vaccine/l/polio.html)
Rubella vaccine (http://www.whale.to/vaccine/l/rubella.html)
Law firms (http://www.whale.to/vaccines/law1.html)
Vaccine law (http://www.whale.to/vaccines/law.html)
Brain damage (http://www.whale.to/m/litigation4.html)
Deaths (http://www.whale.to/vaccine/law9.html)
Tetanus (http://www.whale.to/vaccine/l/law1.html)
SSPE (http://www.whale.to/vaccine/l/sspe.html)
Quotes (http://www.whale.to/vaccine/quotes7.html)
VICP payments (http://www.whale.to/v/vicp5.html)
Litigation
Thimerosal (http://www.whale.to/a/thimerosal.html)
Law change (http://www.whale.to/a/law.html)
National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (http://www.whale.to/vaccine/hrsa.html) "The total awards paid as of August 6, 2008 were $1,804,415,262.35
Time to Eliminate the National Vaccine Injury Act? By Sherri Tenpenny, DO (http://www.whale.to/a/tenpenny12.html)
[2009 Feb pdf] KARI HAWKINS Entitlement; hep B vaccine; onset one month or 75 days; ADEM or Marburg MS (http://www.whale.to/vaccine/MILLMAN.HAWKINS022709.pdf)
[Media Dec 2004] MMR parents win legal victory (http://www.whale.to/a/mmrpar.html)
Little chance of vaccine damage payments:
[Media Feb 2004] Payout scandal of children left disabled by jabs (http://www.whale.to/a/bitter.html)
[MMR litigation] (http://www.whale.to/a/mmr321.html)A life sentence with no appeal; It's the final insult. (http://www.whale.to/a/mmr321.html)
[Media 27 February, 2004] Parents refused aid to fight MMR (http://www.whale.to/a/bbc3.html)
[Media 2003] Hep B vaccine challenge launched (http://www.whale.to/a/hepb45.html)
[Media Feb 2004] Gulf war syndrome: the legal case collapses (http://www.whale.to/a/gulfw.html)
The Victim Friendly National Childhood Vaccine Injury Compensation Act: You've Got to Be Kidding! by Stanley P. Kops, Esq. (http://www.whale.to/a/kops.html)
MOUNTAIN VIEWS: CHAOS THEORY -- MYSTERY OF UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES AFFECTS YOUR CIVIL LIBERTIES By John Hanchette (http://www.whale.to/a/hanchette.html)
[Media Can, Dec 2002] Physicians legally obliged to discuss vaccines, insurer says (http://www.whale.to/a/phy.html)
FEDERAL COURT CHALLENGE TO MANDATORY IMMUNIZATION (http://www.whale.to/a/fed.html)
"The computer records from the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program, obtained by Gannett News Service using the Freedom of Information Act as part of a four-month study of federal immunization policy, reveal: Of 253 infant death cases awarded more than $61 million by the U.S. Court of Federal Claims in the 1990s under the compensation program, 224, or 86 percent, were attributed to vaccination with DTP, the diphtheria, tetanus and pertussis (whooping cough) shot. In these cases, mortality was originally attributed to SIDS in 90, or 40 percent, of them. Of 771 total claims filed by parents from 1990 through mid-1998, 660, or 86 percent, contained assertions that DTP was the cause of death. And 43 percent were classified by medical authorities at time of death as SIDS cases."--NVIC http://www.909shot.com/gnssids.htm
AIDS vaccine origin:
[Nov 2002] (http://www.whale.to/a/lawsuit.html) Lawsuit against the U.S. over AIDS origin to see supreme court (http://www.whale.to/a/lawsuit.html)
[Media Aug 2002--DPT injury, VICP payment] Girl gets $4.7M for vaccine injuries (http://www.whale.to/a/girl.html)
VICP stats:
[May 2002] (http://www.whale.to/a/nvicp.html) National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (http://www.whale.to/a/nvicp.html)
DRUG COMPANIES LOBBY TO STOP AID FOR VACCINE-INJURED CHILDREN (http://www.whale.to/a/drugc.html)
[Media 1/2002 MMR] 1,000 Families Seek Compensation For Alleged Vaccine Harm (http://www.whale.to/v/mmr102.html)
Table http://www.hrsa.gov/osp/vicp/table.htm
difference between VAERS AND VICP. (http://www.whale.to/m/vicp4.html)
4 Oregon Families Sue 12 Drug Cos. (http://www.whale.to/m/litig5.html)
Hepatitis B vaccine & MS--French lawyers (http://www.whale.to/m/hepbms.html)
German Court Rules "HIV Never Isolated" (http://www.whale.to/m/hiv.html)
Lawyer Alleges Federal Plot Unleashed AIDS on Blacks (http://www.whale.to/vaccine/graves.html)
Dental Groups Sued Over Mercury in Fillings (http://www.whale.to/m/dental2.html)
Lawsuit on Anthrax Vaccinations Targets FDA Role (http://www.whale.to/vaccine/anthrax4.html)
Opinions of the United States Court of Federal Claims http://www.contracts.ogc.doc.gov/fedcl/cofc.html
The Court of Federal Claims http://www.law.gwu.edu/fedcl/
PAULA JELLY 1998 [1991 (18 yrs old)--chronic vaccine-caused condition] (http://www.whale.to/vaccine/l/jelly.html)
Ann Jessen (http://www.whale.to/vaccine/l/jessen.html)
Patrick Holihan--vaccine-caused encephalopathy (http://www.whale.to/vaccine/l/holihan.html)
The records of the emergency room visit and the records of Dr. Barnett were never recovered. (http://www.whale.to/vaccine/l/lett.html)
BRYAN T. RUCKER 1999 (http://www.whale.to/vaccine/l/rucker.html)
[Home (http://www.whale.to/vaccines.html)]
The Table further provides that in order for the vaccine recipient to qualify for an award, the first symptoms of either such injury, or the first symptoms of a "significant aggravation" of either such injury, must have been exhibited within three days of the inoculation.


Your days are numbered shill.

[chocolateharpist]

The problem is that you cannot dismiss one piece of research as a conspiracy then claim that another piece of research is true.

Either both are true or both are not. There is no grey area.

Also, in the wise words of Doctor Carl: "The plural of story is not data"

[crocoduck]

You can LOL all you want, it's what is to be expected of an idiot who is to tunnelled visioned to see beyond what the MSM tell him.

Mmm and here we have MD's and PHd's who write papers and have case studies and you call it woo. Really shows your mentality.

Lets not forget this.

Home (http://www.whale.to/vaccines.html) DPT (http://www.whale.to/vaccine/law7.html)
Flu vaccines (http://www.whale.to/vaccine/l/flu.html)
MMR/MR
(http://www.whale.to/vaccine/law8.html)Polio vaccines (http://www.whale.to/vaccine/l/polio.html)
Rubella vaccine (http://www.whale.to/vaccine/l/rubella.html)
Law firms (http://www.whale.to/vaccines/law1.html)
Vaccine law (http://www.whale.to/vaccines/law.html)
Brain damage (http://www.whale.to/m/litigation4.html)
Deaths (http://www.whale.to/vaccine/law9.html)
Tetanus (http://www.whale.to/vaccine/l/law1.html)
SSPE (http://www.whale.to/vaccine/l/sspe.html)
Quotes (http://www.whale.to/vaccine/quotes7.html)
VICP payments (http://www.whale.to/v/vicp5.html)
Litigation
Thimerosal (http://www.whale.to/a/thimerosal.html)
Law change (http://www.whale.to/a/law.html)
National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (http://www.whale.to/vaccine/hrsa.html) "The total awards paid as of August 6, 2008 were $1,804,415,262.35
Time to Eliminate the National Vaccine Injury Act? By Sherri Tenpenny, DO (http://www.whale.to/a/tenpenny12.html)
[2009 Feb pdf] KARI HAWKINS Entitlement; hep B vaccine; onset one month or 75 days; ADEM or Marburg MS (http://www.whale.to/vaccine/MILLMAN.HAWKINS022709.pdf)
[Media Dec 2004] MMR parents win legal victory (http://www.whale.to/a/mmrpar.html)
Little chance of vaccine damage payments:
[Media Feb 2004] Payout scandal of children left disabled by jabs (http://www.whale.to/a/bitter.html)
[MMR litigation] (http://www.whale.to/a/mmr321.html)A life sentence with no appeal; It's the final insult. (http://www.whale.to/a/mmr321.html)
[Media 27 February, 2004] Parents refused aid to fight MMR (http://www.whale.to/a/bbc3.html)
[Media 2003] Hep B vaccine challenge launched (http://www.whale.to/a/hepb45.html)
[Media Feb 2004] Gulf war syndrome: the legal case collapses (http://www.whale.to/a/gulfw.html)
The Victim Friendly National Childhood Vaccine Injury Compensation Act: You've Got to Be Kidding! by Stanley P. Kops, Esq. (http://www.whale.to/a/kops.html)
MOUNTAIN VIEWS: CHAOS THEORY -- MYSTERY OF UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES AFFECTS YOUR CIVIL LIBERTIES By John Hanchette (http://www.whale.to/a/hanchette.html)
[Media Can, Dec 2002] Physicians legally obliged to discuss vaccines, insurer says (http://www.whale.to/a/phy.html)
FEDERAL COURT CHALLENGE TO MANDATORY IMMUNIZATION (http://www.whale.to/a/fed.html)
"The computer records from the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program, obtained by Gannett News Service using the Freedom of Information Act as part of a four-month study of federal immunization policy, reveal: Of 253 infant death cases awarded more than $61 million by the U.S. Court of Federal Claims in the 1990s under the compensation program, 224, or 86 percent, were attributed to vaccination with DTP, the diphtheria, tetanus and pertussis (whooping cough) shot. In these cases, mortality was originally attributed to SIDS in 90, or 40 percent, of them. Of 771 total claims filed by parents from 1990 through mid-1998, 660, or 86 percent, contained assertions that DTP was the cause of death. And 43 percent were classified by medical authorities at time of death as SIDS cases."--NVIC http://www.909shot.com/gnssids.htm
AIDS vaccine origin:
[Nov 2002] (http://www.whale.to/a/lawsuit.html) Lawsuit against the U.S. over AIDS origin to see supreme court (http://www.whale.to/a/lawsuit.html)
[Media Aug 2002--DPT injury, VICP payment] Girl gets $4.7M for vaccine injuries (http://www.whale.to/a/girl.html)
VICP stats:
[May 2002] (http://www.whale.to/a/nvicp.html) National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (http://www.whale.to/a/nvicp.html)
DRUG COMPANIES LOBBY TO STOP AID FOR VACCINE-INJURED CHILDREN (http://www.whale.to/a/drugc.html)
[Media 1/2002 MMR] 1,000 Families Seek Compensation For Alleged Vaccine Harm (http://www.whale.to/v/mmr102.html)
Table http://www.hrsa.gov/osp/vicp/table.htm
difference between VAERS AND VICP. (http://www.whale.to/m/vicp4.html)
4 Oregon Families Sue 12 Drug Cos. (http://www.whale.to/m/litig5.html)
Hepatitis B vaccine & MS--French lawyers (http://www.whale.to/m/hepbms.html)
German Court Rules "HIV Never Isolated" (http://www.whale.to/m/hiv.html)
Lawyer Alleges Federal Plot Unleashed AIDS on Blacks (http://www.whale.to/vaccine/graves.html)
Dental Groups Sued Over Mercury in Fillings (http://www.whale.to/m/dental2.html)
Lawsuit on Anthrax Vaccinations Targets FDA Role (http://www.whale.to/vaccine/anthrax4.html)
Opinions of the United States Court of Federal Claims http://www.contracts.ogc.doc.gov/fedcl/cofc.html
The Court of Federal Claims http://www.law.gwu.edu/fedcl/
PAULA JELLY 1998 [1991 (18 yrs old)--chronic vaccine-caused condition] (http://www.whale.to/vaccine/l/jelly.html)
Ann Jessen (http://www.whale.to/vaccine/l/jessen.html)
Patrick Holihan--vaccine-caused encephalopathy (http://www.whale.to/vaccine/l/holihan.html)
The records of the emergency room visit and the records of Dr. Barnett were never recovered. (http://www.whale.to/vaccine/l/lett.html)
BRYAN T. RUCKER 1999 (http://www.whale.to/vaccine/l/rucker.html)
[Home (http://www.whale.to/vaccines.html)]
The Table further provides that in order for the vaccine recipient to qualify for an award, the first symptoms of either such injury, or the first symptoms of a "significant aggravation" of either such injury, must have been exhibited within three days of the inoculation.


Your days are numbered shill.

You can keep posting the same appeals to authority, but you're going to keep getting the same response. Show me the EVIDENCE, not just the credentials listed by some "alternative medicine" business.

What do you mean by my days being numbered? Be a little more specific, please. Thanks.

[boots]

You can keep posting the same appeals to authority, but you're going to keep getting the same response. Show me the EVIDENCE, not just the credentials listed by some "alternative medicine" business.

What do you mean by my days being numbered? Be a little more specific, please. Thanks.


What do you mean appeals to the authorities. It's becoming quite obvious that you are a shill.

Do you deny that these were litigations which resulted in a pay out to people who have been damaged by vaccinations.

You also failed to see the EVIDENCE from Ph'd's and MD's

You are not here to learn.

[largejack]

What do you mean appeals to the authorities. It's becoming quite obvious that you are a shill.

Do you deny that these were litigations which resulted in a pay out to people who have been damaged by vaccinations.

You also failed to see the EVIDENCE from Ph'd's and MD's

You are not here to learn.

Thought it was obvious he is a shill:D

[hagbard_celine]

I don't care if you believe in your woo.

Ah, so you give my views a dysphemistic prejudical Orwellian name. Very convenient!:rolleyes::(

[hagbard_celine]

No. You must have a very sheltered life if you think he's the only one who would point out such an obvious truth as that though.

"Sheltered life"?:confused::( So we get personal now do we?

Goldacre is the most prominent person opposing vaccine fears, so my question was perfectly reasonable.:cool:

[hagbard_celine]

This isn't a matter of religious bigotry. It's a matter of preventing preventable harm to innocent people.

I don't care if you believe in your woo, just as long as you don't actually cause preventable harm to others. You people just need to find a way to reconcile your beliefs with actually getting vaccinated if you want to live in a reasonable society.


I'm trying not to cause preventable harm to others and stopping those who would harm them from doing so! Speaking out about the Illuminati biowarfare agenda to genetically modify the human genome and cull the population I think somehow counts as preventing harm.

[crocoduck]

What do you mean appeals to the authorities. It's becoming quite obvious that you are a shill.

Do you deny that these were litigations which resulted in a pay out to people who have been damaged by vaccinations.

You also failed to see the EVIDENCE from Ph'd's and MD's

You are not here to learn.

What I meant was that just listing people who agree with you and their credentials is not evidence. Their studies, if they exist, and if they're properly controlled, blinded, double-blinded, and reviewed, would. Not just lawsuits. So show me the evidence. And what did you mean by my days being "numbered?" Please be a little more specific. Thanks.

[crocoduck]

"Sheltered life"?:confused::( So we get personal now do we?

Goldacre is the most prominent person opposing vaccine fears, so my question was perfectly reasonable.:cool:

You mean personal like by trying to claim who you are, personally? Kind of like how you just did?

It's not reasonable because 1. he's not, (you don't even need to go outside your own Oxford to see that) and 2. there's no reason I'd be "the most prominent person opposing vaccine fears." Lots of people are against this kind of woo.

[crocoduck]

I'm trying not to cause preventable harm to others and stopping those who would harm them from doing so! Speaking out about the Illuminati biowarfare agenda to genetically modify the human genome and cull the population I think somehow counts as preventing harm.

It could be that you really are just duped into believing that you really are preventing harm, but as a utilitarian that wouldn't matter to me since the result is that you're causing harm.

Obviously I don't believe that there's a conspiracy to modify the human genome, but even if there were, so what? What's so wrong with modifying the genome? It's been happening for millions of years now through unguided processes. There's nothing special about the human genome as it happens to be right now.

[antinwo]

Show me the evidence that you have that vaccines are completely safe then. I am still waiting. Post it on here for us all to see. Otherwise there is no credibility in your denial that vaccines aren't harmful.

[crocoduck]

Show me the evidence that you have that vaccines are completely safe then. I am still waiting. Post it on here for us all to see. Otherwise there is no credibility in your denial that vaccines aren't harmful.

What would you accept as evidence of the absence of harm? I've posted plenty of reports and studies which show that refusal to vaccinate for religious or "philosophical" reasons cause lots of harm. What else do you need? What would count as evidence for the efficacy and safety of vaccines to you? Would anything count? Yes or no.

[antinwo]

What would you accept as evidence of the absence of harm? I've posted plenty of reports and studies which show that refusal to vaccinate for religious or "philosophical" reasons cause lots of harm. What else do you need? What would count as evidence for the efficacy and safety of vaccines to you? Would anything count? Yes or no.

If refusing to vaccinate my children or myself causes harm then why are we very healthy then?????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????? I know many vaccine damaged children and mine are not going to be thank you very much.

Now I aint going to spend my time going around in circles with you. You obviously have your views I have mine. End of. You haven't convinced me with your poxy skeptical evidence that vaccines are safe and you will have a lot of work trying to convince others on here that vaccines are safe. I think you are wasting your time. Goodbye.

[crocoduck]

If refusing to vaccinate my children or myself causes harm then why are we very healthy then?????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????? I know many vaccine damaged children and mine are not going to be thank you very much.

Now I aint going to spend my time going around in circles with you. You obviously have your views I have mine. End of. You haven't convinced me with your poxy skeptical evidence that vaccines are safe and you will have a lot of work trying to convince others on here that vaccines are safe. I think you are wasting your time. Goodbye.

It is possible for people who are not compliant with their vaccinations to still leach off of the rest of the population via herd immunity. But herd immunity is a tricky thing, and the percent of a population which could still be safe without immunization is small. Therefore it should be limited to people who cannot take their vaccines due to previous medical conditions which could interfere with it - or children who are simply too young to be immunized yet. There's your answer.

That's not going around in circles, that's you asking a question and getting a simple answer. Doesn't it bother you that I can easily answer your questions and yet you can not answer even one of mine?

[boots]

I am in the US, and the CDC is listing the H1N1 vaccine as currently in production. This may not be the case in other countries.

It's in every country

I'd be happy to look at any sources you have for your claims, aside from those from the anti-vaccination lobby / business, of course.

Then what info would you look at. The info coming from muti national corporations who fund research into vaccines. The biggest money makers in the US

Preservatives are an incredibly small proportion of the contents of the vaccine. And besides, did you know that table salt contains CHLORINE (which can kill you)? But you need salt to survive. Funny that.

You dont do ANY research at all. It's very telling.

[tracker]

It is possible for people who are not compliant with their vaccinations to still leach off of the rest of the population via herd immunity. But herd immunity is a tricky thing, and the percent of a population which could still be safe without immunization is small. Therefore it should be limited to people who cannot take their vaccines due to previous medical conditions which could interfere with it - or children who are simply too young to be immunized yet.

Yep ------meees see something ever so familiar to Hitlers answer to everything here

forget your NWO dreams and please get back to the subject .

THIS SUBJECT IS ABOUT A DUDE WHO HAS JUST BEEN SHUNNED BY ALL THE PARENTS AT HIS KIDS SCHOOL

PLEASE HAVE SOME RESPECT .:cool:

[antinwo]

Yep ------meees see something ever so familiar to Hitlers answer to everything here

forget your NWO dreams and please get back to the subject .

THIS SUBJECT IS ABOUT A DUDE WHO HAS JUST BEEN SHUNNED BY ALL THE PARENTS AT HIS KIDS SCHOOL

PLEASE HAVE SOME RESPECT .:cool:

Give him his NWO orgasm and believe everything he says:rolleyes:

[biblegirl]

THIS SUBJECT IS ABOUT A DUDE WHO HAS JUST BEEN SHUNNED BY ALL THE PARENTS AT HIS KIDS SCHOOL

PLEASE HAVE SOME RESPECT .:cool:

Thanks tracker!

[hagbard_celine]

Please read this to understand why Crocoduck behaves as he does. Skeptics employ mind-games and tactics to tie their opponent up in knots. (One wonders why they'd need to use tactics of any kind if their arguments were sound:D;)):

http://hpanwo.blogspot.com/2008/05/debating-with-skepster.html

[hagbard_celine]

You can keep posting the same appeals to authority, but you're going to keep getting the same response. Show me the EVIDENCE, not just the credentials listed by some "alternative medicine" business.



Croc, you're just "raising the bar". If someboidy hadn't provided these links you'd be demanding links from qualified people who carry out proper science, now we've posted them you, they're not good enough.

I know your methods, mate:cool:. They won't work on me!

[hagbard_celine]

It's not reasonable because 1. he's not,

I beg to differ. I think he is. And seeing as this is a subjective value we'll have to leave it there.;)


Lots of people are against this kind of woo.

You're doing yourself no favours by continuing to use this ad hominem dysphemism. It won't work:cool:. You will not flame me:).

[hagbard_celine]

It could be that you really are just duped into believing that you really are preventing harm, but as a utilitarian that wouldn't matter to me since the result is that you're causing harm.


I think not. The conspiracy does exist, so we have a duty to stand up to it. To not do so will cause more harm than either of us can imagine:(.

[hagbard_celine]

It's not reasonable because 1. he's not,

Here's a review of Goldacre's book: http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=61631

[biblegirl]

Please read this to understand why Crocoduck behaves as he does. Skeptics employ mind-games and tactics to tie their opponent up in knots. (One wonders why they'd need to use tactics of any kind if their arguments were sound:D;)):


reminds me of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVhW8l5rKi4&eurl=http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php%3Ft%3D60064%26highlight%3Dneuro&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHQ3u-8K7e8&eurl=http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php%3Ft%3D60064%26highlight%3Dneuro&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YoLG6Iw_pU&eurl=http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php%3Ft%3D60064%26highlight%3Dneuro&feature=player_embedded

they're not so hard to spot when you know exactly what they're doing

[boots]

Thought it was obvious he is a shill:D

Yes he is largejack. Why it/he/she is allowed on the forum I dont know.:confused:

[boots]

What I meant was that just listing people who agree with you and their credentials is not evidence. Their studies, if they exist, and if they're properly controlled, blinded, double-blinded, and reviewed, would. Not just lawsuits. So show me the evidence. And what did you mean by my days being "numbered?" Please be a little more specific. Thanks.

Haha, So the evidence of a court decision which found in favour of the plaintiffs is not conclusive.

Read this researcher.

Quote:

FLU IS NOT THE BIGGEST DANGER IT'S THE VACCINE

Never was this more important than with the conspiracy to force swine flu vaccination upon the global population. The swine flu virus was created in a laboratory to generate mass panic with the specific intention of forcing everyone to have the vaccine. Problem-Reaction-Solution. This 'natural' swine flu virus apparently contains genes from humans, birds and pigs from several continents. If you concoct and release a virus and then implement a clearly long-planned mass vaccination programme, there can be only one sensible conclusion: swine flu is not the biggest danger here - it's the vaccine.

[hagbard_celine]

reminds me of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVhW8l5rKi4&eurl=http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php%3Ft%3D60064%26highlight%3Dneuro&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHQ3u-8K7e8&eurl=http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php%3Ft%3D60064%26highlight%3Dneuro&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YoLG6Iw_pU&eurl=http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php%3Ft%3D60064%26highlight%3Dneuro&feature=player_embedded

they're not so hard to spot when you know exactly what they're doing

That's a good similarity, BB. (BTW: Have you seen my lightbulb joke on the laughter board?;):D)

[hagbard_celine]

What I meant was that just listing people who agree with you and their credentials is not evidence. Their studies, if they exist, and if they're properly controlled, blinded, double-blinded, and reviewed, would. Not just lawsuits. So show me the evidence. And what did you mean by my days being "numbered?" Please be a little more specific. Thanks.

Croc, we have supplied evidence by professional scientists doing properly controlled, double-blinded studies (not necessarily peer-reviwed because journals won't often npublish them!:() Now have a look at the literature on the links we have posted, list your criticisms of them one at a time and we will discuss them.;):cool:

If you don't want to do this then I'll be forced to agree with boots and the others who say you're a shill.:p

[crocoduck]

Croc, you're just "raising the bar". If someboidy hadn't provided these links you'd be demanding links from qualified people who carry out proper science, now we've posted them you, they're not good enough.

I know your methods, mate:cool:. They won't work on me!

No, see, I never asked for credentials in the first place. I asked for the evidence. And that is what I am still doing.

[crocoduck]

Croc, we have supplied evidence by professional scientists doing properly controlled, double-blinded studies (not necessarily peer-reviwed because journals won't often npublish them!:() Now have a look at the literature on the links we have posted, list your criticisms of them one at a time and we will discuss them.;):cool:

If you don't want to do this then I'll be forced to agree with boots and the others who say you're a shill.:p

OK, so you cannot post even one study that's been peer reviewed? Is that what you are saying?

[crocoduck]

Haha, So the evidence of a court decision which found in favour of the plaintiffs is not conclusive.


Yes, that's it exactly. Because judges are not professional scientists working within the relevant field.

[crocoduck]

Yep ------meees see something ever so familiar to Hitlers answer to everything here

forget your NWO dreams and please get back to the subject .

THIS SUBJECT IS ABOUT A DUDE WHO HAS JUST BEEN SHUNNED BY ALL THE PARENTS AT HIS KIDS SCHOOL

PLEASE HAVE SOME RESPECT .:cool:

Well, I was asked how it could be that an unvaccinated person could still be healthy, and the answer is that they are leaching off of herd immunity. If you think that answer is "disrespectful," I wonder how "respectful" you think it would be to transfer something like whooping cough to an infant. I guess you think that's your "right as a parent," right?

[crocoduck]

It's in every country



Then what info would you look at. The info coming from muti national corporations who fund research into vaccines. The biggest money makers in the US



You dont do ANY research at all. It's very telling.

None of your responses make any sense. Just saying.

Maybe instead of just hysterically attacking your keyboard, you could take a deep breath, think about what you mean to say, and then say it. Wouldn't that be fun?

[crocoduck]

I think not. The conspiracy does exist, so we have a duty to stand up to it. To not do so will cause more harm than either of us can imagine:(.

If it did, you would have some evidence of it. Since you do not, and since the evidence shows that noncompliance leads to actual harm (see "vaccination thread" for examples), your hypothesis has been falsified.

[crocoduck]

Here's a review of Goldacre's book: http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=61631

Like I said, you don't even have to go outside your own Oxford to find a more prominent pro-science advocate who knows that noncompliance is a dangerous action. But then again you had to edit that out of the quote you responded to. Typical.

[crocoduck]

Yes he is largejack. Why it/he/she is allowed on the forum I dont know.:confused:

Do you have a Statement of Faith that needs to be signed in order to post here?

[johan niklasson]

www.theflucase.com

[antinwo]

So do you yourself think vaccinations are completely safe then??? If so why the need to try to and push your beliefs on everyone else on here???

[crocoduck]

So do you yourself think vaccinations are completely safe then??? If so why the need to try to and push your beliefs on everyone else on here???

Because noncompliance causes actual harm and you are promoting beliefs which are conducive to noncompliance.

[biblegirl]

Because noncompliance causes actual harm and you are promoting beliefs which are conducive to noncompliance.

wow. that says it all really.

[boots]

None of your responses make any sense. Just saying.

Maybe instead of just hysterically attacking your keyboard, you could take a deep breath, think about what you mean to say, and then say it. Wouldn't that be fun?


Quote:
Originally Posted by crocoduck http://www.davidicke.com/forum/images/buttons_green/viewpost.gif (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1196184#post1196184)
I am in the US, and the CDC is listing the H1N1 vaccine as currently in production. This may not be the case in other countries.

It's in every country

Quote:
Originally Posted by crocoduck http://www.davidicke.com/forum/images/buttons_green/viewpost.gif (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1196184#post1196184)
I'd be happy to look at any sources you have for your claims, aside from those from the anti-vaccination lobby / business, of course.

Then what info would you look at. The info coming from muti national corporations who fund research into vaccines. The biggest money makers in the US

Quote:
Originally Posted by crocoduck http://www.davidicke.com/forum/images/buttons_green/viewpost.gif (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1196184#post1196184)
Preservatives are an incredibly small proportion of the contents of the vaccine. And besides, did you know that table salt contains CHLORINE (which can kill you)? But you need salt to survive. Funny that.

You dont do ANY research at all. It's very telling.


You are such an idiot you dont even know what salt is made of. LOL

Salt is made of sodium CHLORIDE.

.

[boots]

Yes, that's it exactly. Because judges are not professional scientists working within the relevant field.

You have some serious vaccine damage. You think like a 10 year old.

The Plantiff's would have brought EVIDENCE to the court and the Pharmercutical corporation brought EVIDENCE to the court.

The people won and Big pharma has to pay out. Simple.

[boots]

Even the vaccinators say no vaccine is safe:
"No batch of vaccine can be proved safe before it is given to children." Surgeon General of the United States Leonard Scheele, addressing an AMA convention in 1955

"The only safe vaccine is a vaccine that is never used" Dr. James A. Shannon, National Institutes of Health

The "safe" MMR [See: MMR deaths (http://www.whale.to/vaccine/mmr2.html)]
The lie:"The conclusion time and time again is that the (MMR) vaccine is safe." Dr Elizabeth Miller Public Health Laboratory Service, 22 January, 2001

"There have never been any safety studies done for any vaccine in use today that would meet the criteria of scientific proof. All we have are epidemiologic studies, which are indicators but not proof in and of themselves." [Oct 2004] Letter to the British Medical Journal by Harold E Buttram, MD, (http://www.whale.to/a/buttram9.html)

[boots]

wow. that says it all really.

Very telling.

[biblegirl]

Even the vaccinators say no vaccine is safe:
"No batch of vaccine can be proved safe before it is given to children." Surgeon General of the United States Leonard Scheele, addressing an AMA convention in 1955

"The only safe vaccine is a vaccine that is never used" Dr. James A. Shannon, National Institutes of Health

The "safe" MMR [See: MMR deaths (http://www.whale.to/vaccine/mmr2.html)]
The lie:"The conclusion time and time again is that the (MMR) vaccine is safe." Dr Elizabeth Miller Public Health Laboratory Service, 22 January, 2001

"There have never been any safety studies done for any vaccine in use today that would meet the criteria of scientific proof. All we have are epidemiologic studies, which are indicators but not proof in and of themselves." [Oct 2004] Letter to the British Medical Journal by Harold E Buttram, MD, (http://www.whale.to/a/buttram9.html)

whoa some amazing quotes here, i never heard of them before!!

[boots]

whoa some amazing quotes here, i never heard of them before!!


Thank you BG.:)

They are straight from the horses mouth.

From 1955 to 2004.

.

[motleyhoo]

The other thing "they" never tell us about vaccines is that "they" cannot, nor have they ever proven that vaccines even work. My mother-in-law believes the flu shot works because she had the shot last year and she did not get the flu, therefore the shot worked. That's the same logic the vaccine proponents use. It is flawed logic on an elementary level.

The most important thing we know about flu vaccinations is that the same % of people who get the flu every year is the same for everyone including for those who got vaccinated. The ONLY logical and educated conclusion that can be drawn from that is that flu vaccinations do not work. That means there is NO UPSIDE to getting those chemicals injected into your bloodstream, only a downside.

.

[biblegirl]

The other thing "they" never tell us about vaccines is that "they" cannot, nor have they ever proven that vaccines even work. My mother-in-law believes the flu shot works because she had the shot last year and she did not get the flu, therefore the shot worked. That's the same logic the vaccine proponents use. It is flawed logic on an elementary level.

The most important thing we know about flu vaccinations is that the same % of people who get the flu every year is the same for everyone including for those who got vaccinated. The ONLY logical and educated conclusion that can be drawn from that is that flu vaccinations do not work. That means there is NO UPSIDE to getting those chemicals injected into your bloodstream, only a downside.

.

yes absolutely! most people I've run into have already heard of how bad vaccines are, and the side effects...but still use the logic that they or their children are better off with the vaccine than the disease, so they risk the side effects! all this struggle over "should I or shouldn't I" becomes a moot point when you find out the vaccine never worked to begin with!! IMO THIS is the most important info to spread, otherwise people are just weighing the side effects of the vaccine with the disease

[boots]

The other thing "they" never tell us about vaccines is that "they" cannot, nor have they ever proven that vaccines even work. My mother-in-law believes the flu shot works because she had the shot last year and she did not get the flu, therefore the shot worked. That's the same logic the vaccine proponents use. It is flawed logic on an elementary level.

The most important thing we know about flu vaccinations is that the same % of people who get the flu every year is the same for everyone including for those who got vaccinated. The ONLY logical and educated conclusion that can be drawn from that is that flu vaccinations do not work. That means there is NO UPSIDE to getting those chemicals injected into your bloodstream, only a downside.

.

My parents in law used to get the flu vaccine every year and every year they got the flu, Derr. They stopped that and now they dont get the flu.

If you get enough Vitamin D, and sunlight being the only true source that is assimilated by the body. Then you dont get the flu, maybe just a sniffle.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/51913.php


A short while later, a group of scientists from UCLA published a remarkable paper in the prestigious journal, Nature. The UCLA group confirmed two other recent studies, showing that a naturally occurring steroid hormone - a hormone most of us take for granted - was, in effect, a potent antibiotic. Instead of directly killing bacteria and viruses, the steroid hormone under question increases the body's production of a remarkable class of proteins, called antimicrobial peptides. The 200 known antimicrobial peptides directly and rapidly destroy the cell walls of bacteria, fungi, and viruses, including the influenza virus, and play a key role in keeping the lungs free of infection. The steroid hormone that showed these remarkable antibiotic properties was plain old vitamin D.

[boots]

yes absolutely! most people I've run into have already heard of how bad vaccines are, and the side effects...but still use the logic that they or their children are better off with the vaccine than the disease, so they risk the side effects! all this struggle over "should I or shouldn't I" becomes a moot point when you find out the vaccine never worked to begin with!! IMO THIS is the most important info to spread, otherwise people are just weighing the side effects of the vaccine with the disease


The side effects can be even worse.:eek:

There have been many cases of girls dying from the HPV vaccine for instance.

[biblegirl]

The side effects can be even worse.:eek:

There have been many cases of girls dying from the HPV vaccine for instance.

yeah definitely, i'm sure the parents and girls had no idea that would be the result!

[boots]

yeah definitely, i'm sure the parents and girls had no idea that would be the result!

Shocking. Even one death, is one to many.

It's a game of Russian roulette. NOT with any of my girls, will this ever happen.

[antinwo]

Because noncompliance causes actual harm and you are promoting beliefs which are conducive to noncompliance.

You still haven't answered my question. Do you think vaccines are completely safe???? And I am not trying to push my beliefs on anyone.

[scotty99]

OK....lets take away the debate about what could or couldn't be dangerous in vaccines for a second. Plain and simple fact, a flu vaccine HAS to have to have a strain of the flu the jab is supposed to prevent.

Now if you have swine flu/cold etc and I come into contact with you and your virus in the street , my body will start by trying to eliminate the virus if it attempts to enter my body by sneezing, peeing, coughing it etc, out. The hairs in my nose and the mucus in my nose and throat are there to protect my major/vital organs from harm from airborne viruses such as flu, filtering out the virus as much as it can, this is how the body works.

Now when you have a flu jab, a strain of flu is bypassing these natural defense systems that nature designed, and is straight into you system and into your bloodstream in minutes, and straight to your major organs. When you consider this, it aint natural, and babies and toddlers will be getting the flu jab into their under developed bodies. Doesn't sound great to me....would like to hear your thoughts on this Crocoduck

[antinwo]

OK....lets take away the debate about what could or couldn't be dangerous in vaccines for a second. Plain and simple fact, a flu vaccine HAS to have to have a strain of the flu the jab is supposed to prevent.

Now if you have swine flu/cold etc and I come into contact with you and your virus in the street , my body will start by trying to eliminate the virus if it attempts to enter my body by sneezing, peeing, coughing it etc, out. The hairs in my nose and the mucus in my nose and throat are there to protect my major/vital organs from harm from airborne viruses such as flu, filtering out the virus as much as it can, this is how the body works.

Now when you have a flu jab, a strain of flu is bypassing these natural defense systems that nature designed, and is straight into you system and into your bloodstream in minutes, and straight to your major organs. When you consider this, it aint natural, and babies and toddlers will be getting the flu jab into their under developed bodies. Doesn't sound great to me....would like to hear your thoughts on this Crocoduck

You made some good points there:)

[motleyhoo]

If you were walking down the street (a bit hungry because you missed lunch) and you saw a cookie laying on the sidewalk, would you pick it up and eat it?

I don't know anyone who would answer yes to that question, but 99% of these same people will willingly let someone they do not know pump a syringe full of chemicals that they cannot identify straight into their bloodstream. Just goes to show how insane humanity is.

.

[crocoduck]

Shocking. Even one death, is one to many.


Boo-ya. (http://www.masskids.org/dbre/dbre_2.html)

[crocoduck]

You still haven't answered my question. Do you think vaccines are completely safe???? And I am not trying to push my beliefs on anyone.

It depends on what is in them. I don't think it's safe to inject yourself with a syringe full of rat poison, even if you think it's safe because it's "natural." You'll have to be a little more specific than just "vaccinations." Thanks.

[crocoduck]

OK....lets take away the debate about what could or couldn't be dangerous in vaccines for a second. Plain and simple fact, a flu vaccine HAS to have to have a strain of the flu the jab is supposed to prevent.

Now if you have swine flu/cold etc and I come into contact with you and your virus in the street , my body will start by trying to eliminate the virus if it attempts to enter my body by sneezing, peeing, coughing it etc, out. The hairs in my nose and the mucus in my nose and throat are there to protect my major/vital organs from harm from airborne viruses such as flu, filtering out the virus as much as it can, this is how the body works.

Now when you have a flu jab, a strain of flu is bypassing these natural defense systems that nature designed, and is straight into you system and into your bloodstream in minutes, and straight to your major organs. When you consider this, it aint natural, and babies and toddlers will be getting the flu jab into their under developed bodies. Doesn't sound great to me....would like to hear your thoughts on this Crocoduck

LOL, flu vaccines contain a dead strain of a flu virus. So it won't be jumping from one person to another. I love it when these rants are so easy to respond to.

Now something for you: Why should it matter what you consider to be natural and what is not? Just saying that something is natural and is therefore good is bad reasoning. Hurricanes are natural. So is arsenic. Learn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalistic_fallacy)

[crocoduck]

wow. that says it all really.

It does really. Causing harm is wrong. Lying about vaccines causes harm. Therefore, lying about vaccines is wrong. Pretty simple, really.

[crocoduck]

Quote:
You dont do ANY research at all. It's very telling.


You are such an idiot you dont even know what salt is made of. LOL

Salt is made of sodium CHLORIDE.

.

This is the only bit that even approached making sense.

But it still fails.

Do you seriously believe that the chloride in sodium chloride does not refer to chlorine?

LOL!

[crocoduck]

You have some serious vaccine damage. You think like a 10 year old.

The Plantiff's would have brought EVIDENCE to the court and the Pharmercutical corporation brought EVIDENCE to the court.

The people won and Big pharma has to pay out. Simple.

And the case is judged by a judge and not professionals working in the relevant field. Simple.

If you want to get involved in the scientific discussion over the matter, the way to do that would be to go to conferences and try to get your studies past peer review. Then if your work is cited and noticed, you'll have some say in the discussion. Wouldn't that be fun?

[boots]

This is the only bit that even approached making sense.

But it still fails.

Do you seriously believe that the chloride in sodium chloride does not refer to chlorine?

LOL!

:rolleyes:

You failed and now you back peddle. How typical.

You dont know what sodium chloride is. You stated it was chlorine.

You dont know what you are talking about when to comes to vaccines, you only repeat what the MSM tells you.

Please take your swine flu injection, have a double doses while your at it.:cool:

[boots]

And the case is judged by a judge and not professionals working in the relevant field. Simple.

If you want to get involved in the scientific discussion over the matter, the way to do that would be to go to conferences and try to get your studies past peer review. Then if your work is cited and noticed, you'll have some say in the discussion. Wouldn't that be fun?

Trying to side track the issue i SEE. Anyone one with an once of logic would tell you that, the lawyers would have had all the scientific proof at their disposal.

If you were a critical thinker and looked at both sides of a debate it could turn into a interesting discussion. But not you you are here to troll.

I'll be starting another thread on this topic. If you troll that then you will be reported.

[bsmurph83]

*** Dr Rebecca Carley refers to vaccination as "medical voodoo". Listen to her interview with Alex Jones.

Vaccines are a croc of shit for the most part. Nutrition and sanitation stops disease, not injecting yourself with a chemical cocktail that even vaccine manufacturers would move state for just to prevent their own children being jabbed.

Historical fact: The vast majority of diseases vaccines treat were massively in decline ALREADY because of improved hygiene and sanitation prior to the advent of vaccine use. The downward trend in disease incidence occurred not because of vaccines, but in spite of them.

The following are some excerpts from a Michael Tsarion timeline in "Atlantis, Alien Visitation...." :

EXCERPTS FROM MICHAEL TSARION’S MAMMOTH TIMELINE

1796 Edward Jenner in Gloucestershire, England, credited with concept of vaccination. Jenner vaccinates an 8 year old boy with smallpox pus. Jenner would vaccinate the boy 20 times. The boy would die from TB at the age of 20. (Tsarion – Atlantis, Alien Visitation...)

1822 The British government advances Edward Jenner another £20,000 for “smallpox vaccine” experimentation. Jenner suppresses reports which indicate his concept his causing more death than saving lives.

1831 Smallpox epidemic in Wurtemberg, Germany, where 995 vaccinated people succumb to the disease.
1831 In Marseilles, France, 2,000 vaccinated people are stricken with smallpox.
1857 Vaccination in England enforced by fines. Smallpox epidemic begins in England that lasts until 1859. Over 14,000 die.
1858 England experiences a 7 year epidemic of Pertussis (ending in 1865) in which 120,000 die.
1871 In Bavaria, Germany, vaccination is compulsory and revaccination is commonplace. Out of 30,472 cases of smallpox, 29,429 had been vaccinated.

1872 Japan institutes compulsory smallpox vaccination. Within 20 years 165,000 smallpox cases manifest
themselves.

1872 In England, 87% of infants are vaccinated for smallpox. Over 19,000 die in England and Wales. (See 1925).
1884 In England, more that 1700 children vaccinated for smallpox die of syphilis.
1884 Dr. Sobatta of the German Army reports on the results of vaccination to the German Vaccination Commission, which subsequently publishes data proving that re-vaccination does not work. Deaths from vaccination are routinely covered up by physicians.

1886 A seven year period begins in Japan where 25,474,370 vaccinations and re-vaccinations are performed in Japan, representing 66% of the entire population of Japan. During that period, there are 165,774 cases of smallpox with 28,979 deaths. (See 1955).

1887 In England, Dr. Edgar M. Crookshank, professor of pathology and bacteriology at Kings College, is asked by the British government to investigate the cowpox outbreak in Wiltshire. The result of the investigation was contained in two volumes of “The History and Pathology of Vaccination,” in which he states that “the credit given to vaccination belongs to sanitation.”

1888 Bacteriological Institute in Odessa, Russia, tries its hand at a vaccine for anthrax. Over 4,500 sheep are vaccinated; 3,700 of them die from the vaccination.

1895 Diphtheria vaccination program begins. Over the period lasting until 1907, 63,249 cases of diphtheria were treated with anti-toxin. Over 8,900 died, giving a fatality rate of 14%. Over the same period, 11,716 cases were not treated with anti-toxin, of which 703 died, giving a fatality rate of 6%.

1896 Carlo Ruta, a professor at the University of Perugia in Italy, states that “vaccination is a worldwide delusion and an unscientific practice, with consequences measured today with tears and sorrow without end.”

1909 New York Press, January 26, 1909, publishes a report by W.B. Clark which states, “cancer was practically unknown until cowpox vaccination began to be introduced. I have seen 200 cases of cancer, and I never saw a case of cancer in an unvaccinated person.” Scientific evidence begins to mount that where human lymph is employed in a vaccine, syphilis, leprosy and TB soon follow. Where calf lymph is employed in the creation of a vaccine, TB and cancer soon follow. (Cancer and Vaccination by Esculapius).

1912 First whooping cough (Pertussis) vaccine created by two French bacteriologists, Jules Bordet and Octave Gengou, who wanted to use it in Tunisia. After they grew Pertussis bacteria in large pots, they killed it with heat, mixed it with formaldehyde (used to embalm bodies) and injected it into children.

1924 Diphtheria vaccinations kill 25 in Bridgewater, CT and 20 in Concord, NH.
1927 Diphtheria vaccinations injure 37 and kill 5 people in China.
1927 British government appoints a committee to inquire into “vaccine lymph,” as it is noticed that the “glycerinated calf lymph” used in vaccinations causes deaths from “sleepy sickness.” Two London professors bring notice of the problem to the government in 1922. It takes 5 years before the government responds.

1927 Smallpox in England dwindles almost to the vanishing point. Fatality of the unvaccinated cases is less than half of the vaccinated cases.

1928 Cases of post-vaccination encephalitis force creation of two Committees of Investigation in Britain.
1930 Diptheria vaccinations injure 32 and kill 16 in Columbia.
1932 Research (Young) indicates that neuritis is commonly precipitated following vaccination with anti-tetanus, anti-pneumococcal, and anti-meningitis serums.

1933 Danish researcher Thorvald Madsen discovers the Pertussis vaccines ability to kill infants without warning (SID). He reports that two babies vaccinated immediately after birth died in a few minutes.

1936 Pertussis vaccine introduced in the United States. Autism begins to appear in children shortly thereafter.
1939 Compulsory vaccination in Germany raises diphtheria cases to 150,000.
1940 Germany orders compulsory mass immunization for children. As a result, by 1945, Germany's Diphtheria cases increase from 40,000 to 250,000.

1945 Japan surrenders twice, followed by U.S. bombing of Hiroshima/Nagasaki and a third and final surrender. The Allies mandate compulsory vaccination in Japan. The first cases of autism follow pertussis vaccine introduction.

1946 Werne and Garrow describe the deaths of identical twins within 24 hours of their second Pertussis shot.
1947 Charles Posner of the Harvard Medical School Department of Neurology writes, “almost any vaccination can lead to noninfectious inflammatory reaction involving the nervous system. The common denominator consists of vascularity that is often associated with demyelination.” (demyelination is the stripping of the insulation away from the nerves).

1948 A study on Pertussis vaccine reaction is done by Randolph K. Byers and Frederick C. Moll of the Harvard Medical School. They examine 15 children who had reacted violently within 72 hours of a Pertussis vaccination. All the children were normal before the shot. None had ever had a convulsion before. One of the children became blind, deaf, spastic, and helpless after being given the Pertussis shot. Out of the 15 children, two died and nine suffered from damage to their nervous system. Physicians were displeased by these results.

1948 Louis Sauer makes an interesting observation at an AMA meeting where Pertussis vaccination was discussed. Louis Sauer points out that “the neurological damage caused by Pertussis vaccine is the same as the damage caused by Pertussis (whooping cough).” (Which is logical, because they use the bacteria in the vaccine). According to Sauer, “a customary prophylactic dose of Pertussis vaccine seems to illicit a chain of nervous system reactions and in some cases irreversible pathological changes in the brain. These findings resemble those encountered in cases of severe whooping cough (Pertussis).” In other words, the vaccine is causing the disease condition.

1950 Professor Pierre LePine, noted scientist at the Pasteur Institute in Paris, is reported in the March 30, 1950 edition of the New York Times, as saying “no more than one injection in 2000 really prevents polio.”

1952 Formulation of the polio vaccine begins. Tens of millions of doses of polio vaccines produced from virus grown in monkey cells infected with SV-40 (Simian Virus #40). Scientists perform experiments in laboratories to determine the correct doses of antigen and supplementary chemicals to use in the polio vaccine. (Ironically, since the scientific premise of vaccination is faulty, a “correct dose of antigen and chemicals” does not exist).

1960 It is estimated in 1960 that over 1,000,000 children have vaccine-caused disabilities, including learning difficulties and school behavioral problems, behavioral disturbances, allergies, speech difficulties, visual problems, and problems in adjustment and coping.

1967 Science magazine (10/20/67) features article on Joshua Lederberg of the Department of Genetics, Stanford University School of Medicine. Lederberg notifies the scientific world that “live viruses (as in vaccines) are genetic messages used for the purpose of programming human cells” and “we already practice biological engineering on a rather large scale by use of live viruses in mass immunization campaigns.”

1969 Diphtheria outbreak in Chicago. The Chicago Board of Heath reports that 37.5% of the Diphtheria cases had been fully vaccinated or showed immunity.

1969 Neurologically defective 4 and 5 year olds begin to appear.

1970 U.S. Dept. of Health, Education, and Welfare (HEW) reports “as much as 26% of children receiving ruebella (german measles) vaccination in national testing programs developed arthralgia and arthritis. Many had to seek medical attention and some were hospitalized.”

1980 Estimated 2 million American children with vaccine-caused disabilities.

1980 Issue of Mutation Research shows that children re-vaccinated against smallpox had “chromosomal aberrations in their white blood cells,” leading to the conclusion that smallpox vaccination is mutagenic.

But hey, massive corporations don't lie just to make a profit do they?

[hagbard_celine]

No, see, I never asked for credentials in the first place. I asked for the evidence. And that is what I am still doing.

But that's what we've given you (exasperation emoticon).

[hagbard_celine]

OK, so you cannot post even one study that's been peer reviewed? Is that what you are saying?

In 1981 this is what John Maddox, the editor of Nature, said about Rupert Sheldrake's groundbreaking book A New Science of Life (http://www.sheldrake.org/B&R/booksuk/): "(It's) the best candidate for burning there has been for many years."

From your forum contribution to date I doubt very much that you can possibly be so naive to ask that question, and you underestimate us if you think you can bluff as being so.;):p

[hagbard_celine]

If it did, you would have some evidence of it. Since you do not, and since the evidence shows that noncompliance leads to actual harm (see "vaccination thread" for examples), your hypothesis has been falsified.


But to falsify a hypotheis you have to examine it first.:rolleyes:;)

[hagbard_celine]

*** Dr Rebecca Carley refers to vaccination as "medical voodoo". Listen to her interview with Alex Jones.



Yes, good post!:):cool: And in her recent interview with Jane Burgermeister she related that what Crocoduck said here:

LOL, flu vaccines contain a dead strain of a flu virus. So it won't be jumping from one person to another.

was not always the case.

[bsmurph83]

yes. and many vaccines cause the very diseases they are alleged to prevent.

if i ever have kids, they will not be getting them.

i'd rather they didn't wind up with autism, damaged immune systems, life-long allergies, etc, etc....

vaccines are largely a pseudo-scientific fraud. like anthropogenic global warming. like flouride 'for teeth'. like so much other rubbish out there...

[crocoduck]

:rolleyes:

You failed and now you back peddle. How typical.

You dont know what sodium chloride is. You stated it was chlorine.

You dont know what you are talking about when to comes to vaccines, you only repeat what the MSM tells you.

Please take your swine flu injection, have a double doses while your at it.:cool:

I didn't backpedal at all. Sodium chloride contains chlorine. That is what I said originally. I am not the one who is backpedaling here.

You only repeat what the "alternative medicine" industry tells you. The difference is that the science-based medicine community has actual studies which reveal evidence to back up their claims.

[crocoduck]

Trying to side track the issue i SEE. Anyone one with an once of logic would tell you that, the lawyers would have had all the scientific proof at their disposal.

If you were a critical thinker and looked at both sides of a debate it could turn into a interesting discussion. But not you you are here to troll.

I'll be starting another thread on this topic. If you troll that then you will be reported.

No, I'm not trying to "side track" it at all. I was asked if the legal case wasn't good evidence for your claims, and I responded that it is not and the reasons I believe that to not be the case.

I'll be speaking my mind wherever I feel like it. You don't scare me with your fascistic threats.

[crocoduck]

But that's what we've given you (exasperation emoticon).

No - you haven't. But go ahead with your best example of a peer reviewed double blinded study with proper controls any time now. Thanks.

[crocoduck]

In 1981 this is what John Maddox, the editor of Nature, said about Rupert Sheldrake's groundbreaking book A New Science of Life (http://www.sheldrake.org/B&R/booksuk/): "(It's) the best candidate for burning there has been for many years."

From your forum contribution to date I doubt very much that you can possibly be so naive to ask that question, and you underestimate us if you think you can bluff as being so.;):p

You didn't actually answer my question at all, but it appears that the answer is a pretty clear no. But why not just admit to it?

[crocoduck]

But to falsify a hypotheis you have to examine it first.:rolleyes:;)

Right. And?

[biblegirl]

Thanks to this thread and the continual push for more evidence, we now have a wealth of information exposing vaccines in one place. I have studied vaccines for 5 years, and still have managed to miss some of the cases brought up by boots and others. Thank you everyone, this has been most helpful!

[tracker]

biblegirl -----all respect to you young lady --( your manners are becoming so dont think that I point this comment at you ) yet i fear -----so many people here have side tracked with no respect for the dude who has been shunned by the parents at his childs school .

With so much so called wisdom and so called open mindedness from others here ----its funny just how ignorant they can be regarding exactly what this thread is supposed to be about .

Any respect from others would be giving the guy advice on how he can make things better ---------rather than being ignorant know alls in what they wish to side track with .

its so enoying seeing a thread like this placed on forum for help ------just to be trolled .

its bad news .

NO RESPECT !:cool:

[crocoduck]

Thanks to this thread and the continual push for more evidence, we now have a wealth of information exposing vaccines in one place. I have studied vaccines for 5 years, and still have managed to miss some of the cases brought up by boots and others. Thank you everyone, this has been most helpful!

Wow. Just wow. OK, here goes:

The 11 year old son of anti-vaccinationists was brought to the doctor with measles. Several other children in the waiting room were infected with measles via this exposure. Two developed SSPE, a chronic progressive encephalitis that is often fatal. (http://www.kinderaerzte-im-netz.de/bvkj/aktuelles1/show.php3?id=2836&nodeid=26)

Influenced by those who believe childhood vaccines might cause autism, Katie's mother felt extreme guilt over vaccinating the autistic child. This led to a depression, and the death of the child at her mother's hands. (http://www.autismvox.com/trial-of-karen-mccarron-day-5-mccarron-testifies/)

In just 2006 and 2007 there were 2,000 cases of measles in the UK. That's more than the previous decade, a surplus of roughly 1,600 cases. The increase is blamed on parents reluctant to vaccinate their children. (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1043673/The-anti-MMR-mothers-putting-danger.html)

Measles cases reached their worst levels in over a decade in the U.S. in 2008, with 131 cases including 15 serious enough to be hospitalized just in the first half of the year. 90% of these people were not vaccinated against the disease. (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080821/hl_nm/measles_usa_dc)

One child whose parents claimed a religious exemption from vaccination was the source of a measles outbreak that affected 137 people. (http://www.apologeticsindex.org/news/an201108b.html)

A religious community with a low rate of vaccinations was the source of a mumps outbreak. 116 Confirmed and 74 suspected cases occurred in a region that normally has 10. Mumps is easily preventable via vaccine. (http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2008/08/26/bc-mumps-outbreak-spread.html)

The largest outbreak of Hib meningitis in this state since 1992 has occurred among several infants who were unvaccinated due to parental refusal. One infant died, several others were injured. (http://children.webmd.com/vaccines/news/20090123/hib-outbreak-kills-unvaccinated-child)

6 children dead from untreated measles. (http://www.masskids.org/dbre/dbre_2.html)

Because of parental resistance to vaccinations in this area, an outbreak of pertussis (whooping cough) has occurred. This has caused cancellations of events such as the local Little League All Star tournament to contain the outbreak. (http://www.pnwlocalnews.com/breaking_news/24311329.html)

Refusal to vaccinate children has been growing in Israel, resulting in many preventable deaths from illnesses such as whooping cough and measles. In 2007 an ultra-orthodox community in Jerusalem had 250 cases of measles. (http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/941535.html)

Muslim clerics have spread the conspiracy theory that the polio vaccine is a western plot to sterilize or murder Africans. This has result in a boycott in some areas of Nigeria. This is just as the WHO was on the verge of wiping out polio entirely. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/3488806.stm)

[crocoduck]

biblegirl -----all respect to you young lady --( your manners are becoming so dont think that I point this comment at you ) yet i fear -----so many people here have side tracked with no respect for the dude who has been shunned by the parents at his childs school .

With so much so called wisdom and so called open mindedness from others here ----its funny just how ignorant they can be regarding exactly what this thread is supposed to be about .

Any respect from others would be giving the guy advice on how he can make things better ---------rather than being ignorant know alls in what they wish to side track with .

its so enoying seeing a thread like this placed on forum for help ------just to be trolled .

its bad news .

NO RESPECT !:cool:

Why should they deserve any respect? People don't have to associate with proponents of pseudoscience who are intent on spreading easily preventable diseases if they do not want to do so.

[enga]

I think the main difference here is that the measles vaccine has been around a hell of a lot longer than this swine flu one. I wasn't aware about how vaccines could affect people so we have had our MMR with no noticeable ill effects but this vaccine has probably had a LOT of years of trials and tweaking. This swine flu vaccine is more or less untested and is out at a time where big pharma has worked out they won't be liable if anyone dies so no need to make it safe...just make big bucks.

[antinwo]

Don't feed the troll guys :D

[crocoduck]

Wow. Just wow. OK, here goes:

The 11 year old son of anti-vaccinationists was brought to the doctor with measles. Several other children in the waiting room were infected with measles via this exposure. Two developed SSPE, a chronic progressive encephalitis that is often fatal. (http://www.kinderaerzte-im-netz.de/bvkj/aktuelles1/show.php3?id=2836&nodeid=26)

Influenced by those who believe childhood vaccines might cause autism, Katie's mother felt extreme guilt over vaccinating the autistic child. This led to a depression, and the death of the child at her mother's hands. (http://www.autismvox.com/trial-of-karen-mccarron-day-5-mccarron-testifies/)

In just 2006 and 2007 there were 2,000 cases of measles in the UK. That's more than the previous decade, a surplus of roughly 1,600 cases. The increase is blamed on parents reluctant to vaccinate their children. (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1043673/The-anti-MMR-mothers-putting-danger.html)

Measles cases reached their worst levels in over a decade in the U.S. in 2008, with 131 cases including 15 serious enough to be hospitalized just in the first half of the year. 90% of these people were not vaccinated against the disease. (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080821/hl_nm/measles_usa_dc)

One child whose parents claimed a religious exemption from vaccination was the source of a measles outbreak that affected 137 people. (http://www.apologeticsindex.org/news/an201108b.html)

A religious community with a low rate of vaccinations was the source of a mumps outbreak. 116 Confirmed and 74 suspected cases occurred in a region that normally has 10. Mumps is easily preventable via vaccine. (http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2008/08/26/bc-mumps-outbreak-spread.html)

The largest outbreak of Hib meningitis in this state since 1992 has occurred among several infants who were unvaccinated due to parental refusal. One infant died, several others were injured. (http://children.webmd.com/vaccines/news/20090123/hib-outbreak-kills-unvaccinated-child)

6 children dead from untreated measles. (http://www.masskids.org/dbre/dbre_2.html)

Because of parental resistance to vaccinations in this area, an outbreak of pertussis (whooping cough) has occurred. This has caused cancellations of events such as the local Little League All Star tournament to contain the outbreak. (http://www.pnwlocalnews.com/breaking_news/24311329.html)

Refusal to vaccinate children has been growing in Israel, resulting in many preventable deaths from illnesses such as whooping cough and measles. In 2007 an ultra-orthodox community in Jerusalem had 250 cases of measles. (http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/941535.html)

Muslim clerics have spread the conspiracy theory that the polio vaccine is a western plot to sterilize or murder Africans. This has result in a boycott in some areas of Nigeria. This is just as the WHO was on the verge of wiping out polio entirely. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/3488806.stm)

It is their "right as a parent" to kill other children by infecting them with easily preventable diseases, apparently.

[paolo]

LOL, flu vaccines contain a dead strain of a flu virus. So it won't be jumping from one person to another. I love it when these rants are so easy to respond to.

That's a blinding bloody lie for a start
The H1N1 vaccine will contain a live (attenuated) vaccine for a start, as demanded by the WHO directives
I'm loathe to have a go with this shill who uses circular and repetitive arguments as directed by the JREF college of unethical debunking spam, so probably will say no more

[paolo]

It would be nice to get back to the point of the thread from the start, - one guy who sought to warn other parents of the dangers of the vaccine and feels shunned for his act of kindness, rather than one individual's campaign to derail the thread and promote his own sneering attempts to undermine every other honest poster here with his own 'superior science', and 'demands for proof'. It's nothing but energy-sucking parasitism, of no value, not to be out-argued, always claiming 'no proof' when evidence is presented in abundance
Don't feed, ignore

[kweli]

To the OP. Perhaps you could show the other parents some mainstream news atricles like this one:

Half of GPs refuse swine flu vaccine over testing fears

Up to half of family doctors do not want to be vaccinated against swine flu.

GPs will be first in the line for the jabs when they become available but many will decline, even though they will be offering the vaccine to their patients.

More than two thirds of those who will turn the jab down believe it has not been tested enough. Most also believe the flu has turned out to be so mild in the vast majority of cases that the vaccine is not needed.

Last night Government experts criticised GPs who decide not to have the jab, saying they will put vulnerable patients needlessly at risk.

A week ago, a poll of nurses showed that a third would turn down the opportunity of being vaccinated against swine flu.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1208716/Half-GPs-refuse-swine-flu-vaccine-testing-fears.html#ixzz0PBfdEpMR

and this:

One in three nurses 'do not want swine flu vaccine'

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/aug/18/nurses-swine-flu-vaccine-safety

[scooby doo]

My wee boy starts back to school tomorrow. I'm not looking forward to the next month as I believe this will come up. Have spook to his mother about them and sent info so hopefully she'll come on board.

Here's couple for you.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11451-japan-bans-tamiflu-for-teenagers-.html

http://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_national/201087.html

make of that what youse will. I think Japan is light years ahead of the UK in most ways so I'll go with them thanks :cool:

[crocoduck]

That's a blinding bloody lie for a start
The H1N1 vaccine will contain a live (attenuated) vaccine for a start, as demanded by the WHO directives
I'm loathe to have a go with this shill who uses circular and repetitive arguments as directed by the JREF college of unethical debunking spam, so probably will say no more

LOL you didn't even read what I wrote. Here it is again:

"LOL, flu vaccines contain a dead strain of a flu virus. So it won't be jumping from one person to another. I love it when these rants are so easy to respond to."

You're so emotional about all this that you can't even read a few words without going all illiterate!

[crocoduck]

It would be nice to get back to the point of the thread from the start, - one guy who sought to warn other parents of the dangers of the vaccine and feels shunned for his act of kindness, rather than one individual's campaign to derail the thread and promote his own sneering attempts to undermine every other honest poster here with his own 'superior science', and 'demands for proof'. It's nothing but energy-sucking parasitism, of no value, not to be out-argued, always claiming 'no proof' when evidence is presented in abundance
Don't feed, ignore

He's so kind for wanting to spread easily preventable diseases. Jesus, where does it end with you people? Don't you get tired of getting everything exactly backwards all the time?

[suicidal_martyr]

:mad:I have been shunned by some parents at my daughters local school, for advising a few of my parent friends, not to let their child have the vaccine that is planned, some time when the school opens after the summer break. More exposure needs to implemented to advise parents of the situation regarding these deadly vaccines. I do my best to inform them, but they look at me as if I am crazy for saying such things, and putting these ideas in their children's heads. My 10 year old daughter knows everything about what's going on regarding the deadly vaccine and she quite openly tells all her friends at school. I don't mind my daughter knowing about the vaccine, in fact I promote it, and so should other parents, not to scare them but, to inform them of the situation. They have a right to know, considering it's them that are being targeted first. Does anyone disagree with me ? I wonder.:confused:


I'm in the same boat, it's like they don't want to believe it, it's denial caused by fear and it pisses me off really bad. I throw it up in peoples faces that if they get it or for their kids and they die then THEY are the murderers, not the creators of the vaccines, not the laws that push it. But the people who willingly accept it are the murderers in my eyes. That just may be out of spite because I know it's bad that I say it like that but I don't know, it's really irritating when people don't listen to the truth, especially when it's so fricking obvious. I told my people that if it happens don't expect sympathy from me, and I will say "I TOLD YOU SO", it's odd that pharma is granted immunity incase of negative side effects even death, it's like they are making laws to fit their agenda and cleverly excersize that law when it comes time, notice they are making laws ahead of time on shit that they assume will happen.

[suicidal_martyr]

I know most would be afraid to go to jail and fines if they refuse vaccines for kids but the best they can do is stall and get their kids homeschooled. My big worry is if they will force it even if you don't even believe in modern medicine, maybe one woud prefer natural health care practitioner??

[tracker]

Why should they deserve any respect? People don't have to associate with proponents of pseudoscience who are intent on spreading easily preventable diseases if they do not want to do so.

I would like this drivle put into English ------if you know how .

You still have no respect by side tracking the issue that the dude here needs help -------not your profound encylopedia of links .

still --------------NO RESPECT FROM YOU HERE .

BET YA --------------even though I havent read the last page yet ------people are still not giving this thread any thought and are trolling it with -----you should tell them this ---------or--------------you should show them this way ------or ----------------------more side tracking issues .

bet you any money there will be absolutely nothing from anyone to give advice -----to which the guy is by the way ASKING FOR --------!!!!!!!!!!

[tracker]

I rest my case !

[tracker]

It is their "right as a parent" to kill other children by infecting them with easily preventable diseases, apparently.

this statement above comes from a hardlined media head who works for the quacks ----and is apparently calling the thread creator a potential child killer --------just because he doesnt want his kids vaccinated !

crocoduck is whats known as an asshole !:cool:

[tracker]

Don't feed the troll guys :D


exactly

I cant believe just how disrespectful people have been to the dude who made the thread and ASKED FOR---------HELP

jUST TO HAVE PEOPLE IGNORE IT AND TROLL THIS THREAD .

[crocoduck]

I would like this drivle put into English ------if you know how .

You still have no respect by side tracking the issue that the dude here needs help -------not your profound encylopedia of links .

still --------------NO RESPECT FROM YOU HERE .

BET YA --------------even though I havent read the last page yet ------people are still not giving this thread any thought and are trolling it with -----you should tell them this ---------or--------------you should show them this way ------or ----------------------more side tracking issues .

bet you any money there will be absolutely nothing from anyone to give advice -----to which the guy is by the way ASKING FOR --------!!!!!!!!!!

I have never heard of the English word "drivle." I have heard of the word drivel. Is that what you meant to say? Perhaps if you spent less time whining about how you believe others do not understand English and more time learning it yourself, you might not make such mistakes.

Why do you think he deserves any respect at all? I'm proud to not show any respect to people like this. They deserve to be shunned, and worse.

[crocoduck]

this statement above comes from a hardlined media head who works for the quacks ----and is apparently calling the thread creator a potential child killer --------just because he doesnt want his kids vaccinated !

crocoduck is whats known as an asshole !:cool:

Thanks for this example of an ad hominem logical fallacy.

Even if I did work for the alleged pro-science conspiracy, what difference could that possibly make to the facts of the matter?

[crocoduck]

exactly

I cant believe just how disrespectful people have been to the dude who made the thread and ASKED FOR---------HELP

jUST TO HAVE PEOPLE IGNORE IT AND TROLL THIS THREAD .

So do you think it might be possible for anyone to not fall lock-step in line with pseudoscientific quackery and antivaccine hysteria without being a "troll?" Or is any disagreement at all not allowed here?

[enga]

Everyone will hold their own opinion. Some people will hold theres regardless of the facts others will change as more information is available. I'm sorry you were shunned by the other parents, I haven't told the others I won't be letting my Son get vaccinated either so don't know how they would respond. On the other side of the coin I'm sure both you and I won't be letting our kids go out to infect the world if they ever did become sick. Swine flu has been nothing worth worrying about thus far.

[paolo]

LOL you didn't even read what I wrote. Here it is again:

"LOL, flu vaccines contain a dead strain of a flu virus. So it won't be jumping from one person to another. I love it when these rants are so easy to respond to."

You're so emotional about all this that you can't even read a few words without going all illiterate!
I believe I did read what you wrote which is that flu vaccines contain a dead virus.
The H1N1 vaccine will be based on attenuated live virus.
That's not emotional, nor illiterate, but factual
The H1N1 flu vaccine will contain a live though weakened virus strain. That might be capable of jumping from one person to another, in particular in people who are to some degree immune-compromised, pregnant women, very young children, already vaccinated especially, and others. Ie those first targetted.
You are practising doublethink in its purest form here, along with a mild level of abuse, just to try and make readers think I've made an ignorant statement

Still it's not working is it crocoduck
Everyone else in this thread thinks you're a troll, a shill, some kind of messenger for the Pharma, the medical establishment, a James Randi Educational Foundation own fart sniffer. You're here for purely disruptive purposes and I think you should go away

[tracker]

yet again crocoducky has made yet another two posts still not regarding the thread subject ---------crocoducky ------------you said something about a man like this not deserving respect because you said that his kid would infect others at their school .
what a load of shite ---------SHITE ! -------------UNLESS ------like you -the vaccines just don't do the right job .

after all ------how can a child infect others with a stupid cold ---if this vaccine is supposed to work and they have all been vaccinated ah ?
well if it doesnt work ---then the vaccines are a lie and dont work .

seeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

you contradict your self just like a normal politician or a Dr would on any of their good days let alone bad days .

crocducky thingy --------------do you actually have any advice to help the man or not ?

if not --stop side tracking and trolling -----it is disrespectful / unthoughtful/ inconsiderate/ and most rude .

[kweli]

I have never heard of the English word "drivle." I have heard of the word drivel. Is that what you meant to say? Perhaps if you spent less time whining about how you believe others do not understand English and more time learning it yourself, you might not make such mistakes.

Why do you think he deserves any respect at all? I'm proud to not show any respect to people like this. They deserve to be shunned, and worse.

Are you saying the Doctors and Nurses that refuse the vaccine don't deserve our respect either?

To the OP. Perhaps you could show the other parents some mainstream news atricles like this one:

Half of GPs refuse swine flu vaccine over testing fears

Up to half of family doctors do not want to be vaccinated against swine flu.

GPs will be first in the line for the jabs when they become available but many will decline, even though they will be offering the vaccine to their patients.

More than two thirds of those who will turn the jab down believe it has not been tested enough. Most also believe the flu has turned out to be so mild in the vast majority of cases that the vaccine is not needed.

Last night Government experts criticised GPs who decide not to have the jab, saying they will put vulnerable patients needlessly at risk.

A week ago, a poll of nurses showed that a third would turn down the opportunity of being vaccinated against swine flu.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1208716/Half-GPs-refuse-swine-flu-vaccine-testing-fears.html#ixzz0PBfdEpMR

and this:

One in three nurses 'do not want swine flu vaccine'

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/aug/18/nurses-swine-flu-vaccine-safety

[paolo]

I'm glad to be one of the 30% who will refuse the vaccine
Even amongst registered nurses there is a certain percentage that will not be duped

[antinwo]

So do you think it might be possible for anyone to not fall lock-step in line with pseudoscientific quackery and antivaccine hysteria without being a "troll?" Or is any disagreement at all not allowed here?

Fecking hell....spit out a dictionary why don't ya:D

[suicidal_martyr]

I wonder if amish people in their lil villages get vaccinated and if not do their kids get sick and die?!?

[biblegirl]

:mad:I have been shunned by some parents at my daughters local school, for advising a few of my parent friends, not to let their child have the vaccine that is planned, some time when the school opens after the summer break. More exposure needs to implemented to advise parents of the situation regarding these deadly vaccines. I do my best to inform them, but they look at me as if I am crazy for saying such things, and putting these ideas in their children's heads. My 10 year old daughter knows everything about what's going on regarding the deadly vaccine and she quite openly tells all her friends at school. I don't mind my daughter knowing about the vaccine, in fact I promote it, and so should other parents, not to scare them but, to inform them of the situation. They have a right to know, considering it's them that are being targeted first. Does anyone disagree with me ? I wonder.:confused:

what is the vaccine for?

[bsmurph83]

Why should they deserve any respect? People don't have to associate with proponents of pseudoscience who are intent on spreading easily preventable diseases if they do not want to do so.

this is pretty much the definition of troll behaviour evinced by crocoduck.

ad hominem schoolyard name calling.

the twisting of others' words and intentions to completely misprepresent them.

how does a man not wanting his child to be injected with a cocktail of foreign proteins and toxic chemicals suddenly translate into him being "intent on spreading easily preventable diseases" ???

these diseases are indeed easily preventable. mostly, it's called hygiene and nutrition. that is what caused the immense decline in these diseases before vaccines ever started being developed for them (and subsequently causing said diseases).

are you a member at JREF? you speak like it. the Randi mentality goes something like this:

"person X has a different outlook from me and that is bad and qualifies them for put downs, complete disrespect, misrepresentation of their words and intentions and total misdirection from the topic at hand."

he would be proud. but he is a moron.

a quick look at history will reveal the fallacies inherent in the notion of vaccines as 'health givers'. there's a thing called an immune system for a reason... vaccines undermine and compromise it, especially in developing bodies.

my advice to the OP is;

a) most people are completely taken in by corporate propaganda. try not to take it personally when someone thinking such as yourself contradicts the cherished wisdom of Big Pharma and people react like petulant children.

b) quietly seek others who are like-minded to share your views with.

c) feel people out to discern their levels of openness and perception. if you come across any who are at all open-minded, introduce some information to them that they might be able to deal with which will help them get to the point of more easily relating to your own position if and when you decide to fully reveal your position.

d) you're not alone mate. not everyone is mind numbed to the point of sleepwalking through life. small consolation that you get moral support from an online forum i suppose, but hey, better than nothing i guess. maybe as you encounter people of like mind, you can construct a support and info sharing network.

e) pay no mind to those minds completely enamoured by the corporate propaganda, such as crocotroll. crocotroll, when you refuse people basic dignity and respect, what do you think it achieves? do you expect them to even pay you any attention? let alone believe you or afford you any credibility?

best of luck to you, OP. i apologise if either of my previous posts have contributed to the derailing of your thread. peace.

[truthseekeruk]

:mad:I have been shunned by some parents at my daughters local school, for advising a few of my parent friends, not to let their child have the vaccine that is planned, some time when the school opens after the summer break. More exposure needs to implemented to advise parents of the situation regarding these deadly vaccines. I do my best to inform them, but they look at me as if I am crazy for saying such things, and putting these ideas in their children's heads. My 10 year old daughter knows everything about what's going on regarding the deadly vaccine and she quite openly tells all her friends at school. I don't mind my daughter knowing about the vaccine, in fact I promote it, and so should other parents, not to scare them but, to inform them of the situation. They have a right to know, considering it's them that are being targeted first. Does anyone disagree with me ? I wonder.:confused:

Hi spaceman I have been asking other parents to look into this vaccine themselves, get on the net citing the court case re Jane Burgermeister, thankfully the media are now going public with the dangers of tamiflu, I am finding a lot of people are starting to have doubts and are losing blind trust. The swine flu vaccine contains a new untested adjuvent called "Squalene". Trials in Poland on homeless population lead to 20 deaths. Tests on ferrets killed them.

Please remember the human ego people dont like to be told what to do, they have to reach a decision themselves, an informed decision. I merely express doubts and cite the reasons why and suggest that the parents look the info up for themselves and make an informed decision. In the movie the Matrix, Morpehus says "unfortunately people cannot be told what the matrix is, they have to see it for themselves". Dropping seeds of info always works for me. Now is the time for people to wake up and think for themselves, research and make their own decisions, taking responsibility for the lives of themselves and their family.

I have two children who both suffered problems from routine childhood vaccines so I know the damage vaccines can do to a child.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/poland/2235676/Homeless-people-die-after-bird-flu-vaccine-trial-in-Poland.html

http://www.examiner.com/x-17373-Phoenix-Signs-of-the-Times-Examiner~y2009m8d7-Is-Baxter-Internationals-swine-flu-vaccine-a-godsend-a-scam-or-something-worse

http://birdflu666.wordpress.com/about/

Please remember some people dont want to listen or hear, and will attack you and fear you, but there are many others who will listen and if you save just one child, that is well worth what you are doing, I accepted a long time ago some people just dont want to know and its easier for them to call you crazy, but my conscious is clear I share information with them its up to them to decide what is best for them.

Peace

[antinwo]

Hi spaceman I have been asking other parents to look into this vaccine themselves, get on the net citing the court case re Jane Burgermeister, thankfully the media are now going public with the dangers of tamiflu, I am finding a lot of people are starting to have doubts and are losing blind trust. The swine flu vaccine contains a new untested adjuvent called "Squalene". Trials in Poland on homeless population lead to 20 deaths. Tests on ferrets killed them.

Please remember the human ego people dont like to be told what to do, they have to reach a decision themselves, an informed decision. I merely express doubts and cite the reasons why and suggest that the parents look the info up for themselves and make an informed decision. In the movie the Matrix, Morpehus says "unfortunately people cannot be told what the matrix is, they have to see it for themselves". Dropping seeds of info always works for me. Now is the time for people to wake up and think for themselves, research and make their own decisions, taking responsibility for the lives of themselves and their family.

I have two children who both suffered problems from routine childhood vaccines so I know the damage vaccines can do to a child.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/poland/2235676/Homeless-people-die-after-bird-flu-vaccine-trial-in-Poland.html

http://www.examiner.com/x-17373-Phoenix-Signs-of-the-Times-Examiner~y2009m8d7-Is-Baxter-Internationals-swine-flu-vaccine-a-godsend-a-scam-or-something-worse

http://birdflu666.wordpress.com/about/

Please remember some people dont want to listen or hear, and will attack you and fear you, but there are many others who will listen and if you save just one child, that is well worth what you are doing, I accepted a long time ago some people just dont want to know and its easier for them to call you crazy, but my conscious is clear I share information with them its up to them to decide what is best for them.

Peace

Well said Truthseeker. I have four children and when I used to vaccinate them (before I woke up) they were constantly ill with asthma, ear infections the lot and were always at the doctors surgery. They haven't had vaccinations in years and guess what, I can't remember the last time one of the was at the doctors surgery. My youngest is nearly two and the health visitor has only just caught up with me no doubt she will be trying to force me to vaccinate my kids and probably tell me to get rid of my so called 'Devil Dogs' before they savage the kids :rolleyes: and if so she will be shown where the door is:D

[tracker]

TROLL ALERT !

MAYBE EVEN A SHILL !

EVERY ONE - look at the whole of this thread and just see how mentaly abusive someone here has been to the thread creator .

So far the person concerned thinks that ;

1 ) the thread creator deserves no respect because apparently his child could infect ( all ready imunised ) children at their school because he doesnt want his kid pumped with the poisons in the vaccines . ( yet hasnt realised that if they did infect those children that the vaccines therefore do not work and are a fraud ! )

2 ) Has constantly trolled the thread by side tracking many many times .

3 ) and has been emotionally trying to upset ( fire start -- shill tactics ) people into arguements rather than actually get on the thread to help the dude who has implisitly asked for help .

here are is the number of all their posts ---and just look at the threads they have only joined in on .

1 ) BBCaware of WTC7 collapse mins before it does --total posts - 30
2 ) 9 / 11 -------------------------------------------total posts - 1
3 ) Source and inspiration of the number 9 - 11 ------total posts - 1
4 ) Vaccination thread ( articles/news ) -------------total posts - 15
5 ) Shunned by parents about vaccine ---------------total posts - 46
6 ) HPV vaccine - Gardasil ---------------------------total posts - 24
7 ) 1 in 7 scientists say collues fake scientific ---------total posts - 1
8 ) you do realise that crop circles are man made ? ----total posts - 58
9 ) The illdarkinati lies ! the earth is not moving -----total posts - 11
10 ) david Icke says queen is reptilian ----------------total posts - 1
11 ) Alien hoax agenda -------------------------------total posts - 1
12 ) dawkins athiest camp for kids --------------------------total posts - 6
13 ) sara Palin on her way to church ( pic ) -----------total posts - 32


Can you see a pattern here ?

I can tell you that this person is very political -and determined to argue and mentaly abuse and antagonise anyone who does not agree with vaccinations that do not have enough testing ( rather like the swine flu jab ) .

Im not going to name them !
thats wrong ----and not quite right to do - as I do not like to name and shame however ------------you can even get the mind set of this person as a shill --working either for the BBC / government or some drs back room .

meees smells a shill ------------bet it doesnt take any one long to know who they are .
beware because this person ----------------doesnt seem quite right ------and is not here for the fun of it ----------they are a trolling shill .

:cool:

[antinwo]

TROLL ALERT !

MAYBE EVEN A SHILL !

EVERY ONE - look at the whole of this thread and just see how mentaly abusive someone here has been to the thread creator .

So far the person concerned thinks that ;

1 ) the thread creator deserves no respect because apparently his child could infect ( all ready imunised ) children at their school because he doesnt want his kid pumped with the poisons in the vaccines . ( yet hasnt realised that if they did infect those children that the vaccines therefore do not work and are a fraud ! )

2 ) Has constantly trolled the thread by side tracking many many times .

3 ) and has been emotionally trying to upset ( fire start -- shill tactics ) people into arguements rather than actually get on the thread to help the dude who has implisitly asked for help .

here are is the number of all their posts ---and just look at the threads they have only joined in on .

1 ) BBCaware of WTC7 collapse mins before it does --total posts - 30
2 ) 9 / 11 -------------------------------------------total posts - 1
3 ) Source and inspiration of the number 9 - 11 ------total posts - 1
4 ) Vaccination thread ( articles/news ) -------------total posts - 15
5 ) Shunned by parents about vaccine ---------------total posts - 46
6 ) HPV vaccine - Gardasil ---------------------------total posts - 24
7 ) 1 in 7 scientists say collues fake scientific ---------total posts - 1
8 ) you do realise that crop circles are man made ? ----total posts - 58
9 ) The illdarkinati lies ! the earth is not moving -----total posts - 11
10 ) david Icke says queen is reptilian ----------------total posts - 1
11 ) Alien hoax agenda -------------------------------total posts - 1
12 ) dawkins athiest camp for kids --------------------------total posts - 6
13 ) sara Palin on her way to church ( pic ) -----------total posts - 32


Can you see a pattern here ?

I can tell you that this person is very political -and determined to argue and mentaly abuse and antagonise anyone who does not agree with vaccinations that do not have enough testing ( rather like the swine flu jab ) .

Im not going to name them !
thats wrong ----and not quite right to do - as I do not like to name and shame however ------------you can even get the mind set of this person as a shill --working either for the BBC / government or some drs back room .

meees smells a shill ------------bet it doesnt take any one long to know who they are .
beware because this person ----------------doesnt seem quite right ------and is not here for the fun of it ----------they are a trolling shill .

:cool:


Well said and this shill is clearly wasting his/her time cos people who have woken up don't listen to the nonsense that this shill posts. It is clear their disinfo isn't working.

[antinwo]

Well Troll keep on posting it is obvious you enjoy wasting your time LOL::D

[metaphor]

Is the Troll gone now?
Spaceman my thougths go to you and the difficulties you face. I can truly say I know how it feels.
Been there.
Just keep your cool. Very important.

For the records I´d like to say I know my daughter got ill by the MMR jab.
we were young parents then. I hope no one here repeats our mistake!

I do not trust ANY vaccine, but on the other hand I also know how intimidated other parents can be when you tell them what you think. I guess it makes them feel like bad parents and doesnt want to know any other truth than the one theyve been sold.

RESPECTFULLY
/Metaphor

[crocoduck]

I believe I did read what you wrote which is that flu vaccines contain a dead virus.
The H1N1 vaccine will be based on attenuated live virus.
That's not emotional, nor illiterate, but factual
The H1N1 flu vaccine will contain a live though weakened virus strain. That might be capable of jumping from one person to another, in particular in people who are to some degree immune-compromised, pregnant women, very young children, already vaccinated especially, and others. Ie those first targetted.
You are practising doublethink in its purest form here, along with a mild level of abuse, just to try and make readers think I've made an ignorant statement

Still it's not working is it crocoduck
Everyone else in this thread thinks you're a troll, a shill, some kind of messenger for the Pharma, the medical establishment, a James Randi Educational Foundation own fart sniffer. You're here for purely disruptive purposes and I think you should go away

Actually one of your little friends here already admitted that "this was not always the case," which means that it IS the case now - at least for flu vaccines, that is.

The H1N1 vaccine is in production right now. Do you know what that means? It means it is being produced. If it is being produced still, that means that it has yet to even exist. So ultimately you have no point. Again.

[crocoduck]

yet again crocoducky has made yet another two posts still not regarding the thread subject ---------crocoducky ------------you said something about a man like this not deserving respect because you said that his kid would infect others at their school .
what a load of shite ---------SHITE ! -------------UNLESS ------like you -the vaccines just don't do the right job .

after all ------how can a child infect others with a stupid cold ---if this vaccine is supposed to work and they have all been vaccinated ah ?
well if it doesnt work ---then the vaccines are a lie and dont work .

seeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

you contradict your self just like a normal politician or a Dr would on any of their good days let alone bad days .

crocducky thingy --------------do you actually have any advice to help the man or not ?

if not --stop side tracking and trolling -----it is disrespectful / unthoughtful/ inconsiderate/ and most rude .

Vaccines do not work when they are not injected. If you think that is a failing of the vaccine, I really do not know what to tell you other than to seek psychological help.

I do not know what you mean by a "stupid cold." There is no vaccine against whatever a "stupid cold" is.

Your premise about vaccines not working makes no sense because the danger is in people not getting vaccinated. That being said, no medical innovation is 100% perfect and it would be ridiculous to assume that vaccination is any exception. The best we can hope for is to reduce the amount of unnecessary exemptions, which is where we are at cross purposes. So there is the answer to your question.

Anyway, like I said, if all that is happening to this guy is that he is being shunned, he is getting off lightly. He deserves worse.

[crocoduck]

Are you saying the Doctors and Nurses that refuse the vaccine don't deserve our respect either?

Yes.

[crocoduck]

Fecking hell....spit out a dictionary why don't ya:D

So is disagreement allowed in here? Yes? No?

I'll try to make my questions as monosyllabic as possible for you.

[crocoduck]

I wonder if amish people in their lil villages get vaccinated and if not do their kids get sick and die?!?

They do get autism (http://autism-news-beat.com/?p=29), and of course like everyone else they eventually die.

[crocoduck]

TROLL ALERT !

MAYBE EVEN A SHILL !

EVERY ONE - look at the whole of this thread and just see how mentaly abusive someone here has been to the thread creator .

So far the person concerned thinks that ;

1 ) the thread creator deserves no respect because apparently his child could infect ( all ready imunised ) children at their school because he doesnt want his kid pumped with the poisons in the vaccines . ( yet hasnt realised that if they did infect those children that the vaccines therefore do not work and are a fraud ! )

2 ) Has constantly trolled the thread by side tracking many many times .

3 ) and has been emotionally trying to upset ( fire start -- shill tactics ) people into arguements rather than actually get on the thread to help the dude who has implisitly asked for help .

here are is the number of all their posts ---and just look at the threads they have only joined in on .

1 ) BBCaware of WTC7 collapse mins before it does --total posts - 30
2 ) 9 / 11 -------------------------------------------total posts - 1
3 ) Source and inspiration of the number 9 - 11 ------total posts - 1
4 ) Vaccination thread ( articles/news ) -------------total posts - 15
5 ) Shunned by parents about vaccine ---------------total posts - 46
6 ) HPV vaccine - Gardasil ---------------------------total posts - 24
7 ) 1 in 7 scientists say collues fake scientific ---------total posts - 1
8 ) you do realise that crop circles are man made ? ----total posts - 58
9 ) The illdarkinati lies ! the earth is not moving -----total posts - 11
10 ) david Icke says queen is reptilian ----------------total posts - 1
11 ) Alien hoax agenda -------------------------------total posts - 1
12 ) dawkins athiest camp for kids --------------------------total posts - 6
13 ) sara Palin on her way to church ( pic ) -----------total posts - 32


Can you see a pattern here ?

I can tell you that this person is very political -and determined to argue and mentaly abuse and antagonise anyone who does not agree with vaccinations that do not have enough testing ( rather like the swine flu jab ) .

Im not going to name them !
thats wrong ----and not quite right to do - as I do not like to name and shame however ------------you can even get the mind set of this person as a shill --working either for the BBC / government or some drs back room .

meees smells a shill ------------bet it doesnt take any one long to know who they are .
beware because this person ----------------doesnt seem quite right ------and is not here for the fun of it ----------they are a trolling shill .

:cool:

What difference would it make if I were a shill? How could that possibly change any of the facts at all?

[nihil]

trolls like croco_ can be placed into the ignore list .

[tracker]

What difference would it make if I were a shill? How could that possibly change any of the facts at all?

STILL ----------NO IMPLICATION OF YOU COMING ONTO THIS THREAD TO HELP THE GUY !

ARE YOU MENTALY ILL ?

CAN YOU NOT UNDERSTAND -------THATTHIS THREAD WAS PUT HERE TO ASK FOR HELP ?

ARE YOU NOT ABLE TO UNDERSTAND THIS ?

I REFUSE ANYMORE BITING YOUR BAIT CROCO THINGY ---------YOU ARE OBVIOUSLY A DESTURBED INDIVIDUAL SET ON DESTROYING THIS THREAD AND PERPOSELY IGNORING SOME ONES PLEA FOR HELP /

GET A LIFE CROCO !:cool:

[nihil]

ignore him .

he replies with the same question,

happily enough, he has a different one for every thread

he lurks into . don't feed the troll .

[motleyhoo]

If for no other reason, we should boycott vaccines just out of sheer incompetence or fraud by the companies that make them.

The companies that make the vaccines are the same companies that put products like Vioxx, Avandia, Vytorin, and dozens of others out into the market, knowing that they were killing and maiming people by the thousands. They are the same companies that have been caught time and time again falsifying data to the FDA, hiding negative trial data, and paying off doctors for clinical recommendations. At least one of these same companies, Baxter, was recently caught red-handed sending out vaccines tainted with live bird flu strains to 16 different countries, and this is just one case where they got caught. Baxter is a level 3 containment facility. That means there is no possible way, unless out of sheer incompetence, combined with the total breakdown of their security, that this could have happened accident.

If I owned a company that produced a nutritional product, and that product killed even one person, the FDA would shut down my business and I would be brought up on charges, even if it was a complete accident and I hid nothing. These privately run pharma companies are no different from any other private business, including the one I just hypothesized. So why is it that they can harm and kill people day after day, year after year, and face little to no consequences, even when they have been caught lying and cheating?

You might ask yourself how come you never heard of this, how could a thing like that be true with all the checks and balances and oversight. Well, we all must understand that the very people and companies tasked with regulating and overseeing the dispersement of pharmaceuticals are also heavily financially invested in these same companies, as are the owners of the major media outlets, as are our very own legislators in Congress. In fact, 99% of anyone with money in an IRA or a 401K is invested in these drug companies to a certain degree. One new drug alone (for example Nexium) can earn its company $2 billion per year. The top 10 most prescribed drugs all earn at least that much per year. That kind of money corrupts, and in this case it corrupts absolutely.

Every major pharma company in the US has just in the last year alone was caught committing one or more of the offenses I listed above, and this goes on year after year. If they cannot be trusted to market and sell safe drugs then why would anyone think they can market and sell safe vaccines? If the system itself is so broken that the safety of conventional drugs and their oversight are in question, then how can we not question the safety of the injectable drugs made by these same companies?

This is why vaccines cannot be trusted, regardless if they actually worked, which to date there is no proof of. The entire vaccine industry is not driven by some innate desire to help humanity, it is driven by profit and we all need to remember that. If people like a certain poster here were not so brainwashed by the system we could put a stop to this.

.

[hagbard_celine]

You didn't actually answer my question at all, but it appears that the answer is a pretty clear no. But why not just admit to it?

Don't you see?:confused: This is the editor of Nature suggesting we burn books. Burning books is the act of a religious fanatic. Science has this persona or self-ideal of being above dogma and politics, but it's not. And that's a bubble that needs bursting!:cool:

Things which contradict the prevailing paradigm will have a harder time being published and peer-reviewed than things which don't, no matter how high the quality of the scence.

(BTW: Are you Garrette from the JREF Forum?;):rolleyes:)

[hagbard_celine]

Right. And?


I don't think you've examined the hypothesis because it doesn't fit into your criteria of the definition of proper science.

[hagbard_celine]

Wow. Just wow. OK, here goes:



A TV show once included Cholera as one of the diseases eradicated by medicine. But in fact it was the invention of modern drains and sewage works that conquered Cholera. When people started drinking clean water they stopped getting Cholera. It wasn't some wonder-drug, it was a different kind of science social hygene and engineering:cool:.

[hagbard_celine]

Don't feed the troll guys :D

Actually you've got a point.:o

Sorry, Spaceman. This thread was about your experiences at the school. How are you getting on with that?

[tracker]

Hagbad celine seems to have hit the nail on the head , this thread is about how this dude will manage and how can he make it better for him and hid daughter .
The idea from what I can gather , is not how to tell the other parents this way ----or that way -------or tell them this about that 1st or that about this , it's how he can make his daughters life better because of how ignorant and mentaly and emotionally other parents become when not conforming to the religion of the Tv box .

I suppose the best way ( whether we like to admit it or not ) is to ( as they say ) lay low for a while . Keep their head down and not say anything . Just because he doesnt wish his daughter to have the vaccination , it doesnt mean he has to tell every one about it , and go on a crusade telling every one about the ins and outs of a ducks bottom .
If the parents have done this to him --------------- why bother for them ?
FKM !

His main priority --------------- is to make foundations where his daughter will be able to go to school ----easily / peacefully -and not get the same treatement .
After all --------- he doesnt have to go to school and stay there 6 hours or more a day for the next how many years -------- his daughter does .

I have found that not being afraid ------- showing no signs that it bothers you/ him / me etc --------- just smiling at his kid when she walks out of the class room , asking her how was her day ---------- getting involved ----you know ------ the concerned parent thing -------------will show the other parents that he is a loving father -and will push the scales eventually the other way .

If for instance -a parent does ask him about the flu vaccine ---------- he only has to say its a cold . ( say nothing else )

But it is his life -and his daughters life , it isup to him what he does .

I hope he can get through this pain barrier , it will get better as long as when he gets to school that he doesnt show any signs of having a complex .
If that is kept too -------- he will victor -as long as he learns -this isnt about trying to warn every one -because bye now he should know --------not every one ----in fact the large percentage of people ----------will punish you for going against the TV belief system .

yep -- plain and simple ------sometimes for our own kids sake ---------despite the fact we may want to tell others ---it can harm our childrens social life if we do and can harm our own --some times whether we like it or not ---we have to -----------not rock the boat ----------stay quiet --------we dont have to be like others -----------all we have to do -----is know what WE plan to do or not to do -------the rest -------is up to them .:cool:

[biblegirl]

yes the issue of vaccination is very personal to many people

A few years ago i sent out a mass email to everyone i knew, stating what i had researched on vaccines and encouraging other parents to look into it themselves before having their babies vaccinated. Of course I got a few discouraging responses, like one entire reply was "Sounds paranoid." And that was it. Another response was, "We know vaccines are bad, but unfortunately our children aren't allowed in schools until they get them." What I didn't know, was this email caused other parents on my contact list to research it for themselves and decide they wanted nothing to do with the vaccines period! I thought that was very encouraging! So although I got a few negative responses, I am glad to see that my efforts were not in vain, and people were able to make educated decisions and maybe spare some devastation. Hopefully spaceman, you have inspired these other parents on some level to look into it themselves, even if they never tell you about it. :)

[crocoduck]

STILL ----------NO IMPLICATION OF YOU COMING ONTO THIS THREAD TO HELP THE GUY !

ARE YOU MENTALY ILL ?

CAN YOU NOT UNDERSTAND -------THATTHIS THREAD WAS PUT HERE TO ASK FOR HELP ?

ARE YOU NOT ABLE TO UNDERSTAND THIS ?

I REFUSE ANYMORE BITING YOUR BAIT CROCO THINGY ---------YOU ARE OBVIOUSLY A DESTURBED INDIVIDUAL SET ON DESTROYING THIS THREAD AND PERPOSELY IGNORING SOME ONES PLEA FOR HELP /

GET A LIFE CROCO !:cool:

Well, he is saying that he is being shunned because of his lies about vaccines. So are only people who feel sympathetic towards him allowed to respond? Is any disagreement allowed?

[crocoduck]

A TV show once included Cholera as one of the diseases eradicated by medicine. But in fact it was the invention of modern drains and sewage works that conquered Cholera. When people started drinking clean water they stopped getting Cholera. It wasn't some wonder-drug, it was a different kind of science social hygene and engineering:cool:.

So instead of responding to what I actually said, you decide to respond to what "a TV show once" said. LOL. Pitiful.

[crocoduck]

Don't you see?:confused: This is the editor of Nature suggesting we burn books. Burning books is the act of a religious fanatic. Science has this persona or self-ideal of being above dogma and politics, but it's not. And that's a bubble that needs bursting!:cool:

Things which contradict the prevailing paradigm will have a harder time being published and peer-reviewed than things which don't, no matter how high the quality of the scence.

(BTW: Are you Garrette from the JREF Forum?;):rolleyes:)

Yes, new ideas will have a more difficult time getting past peer review because most new ideas are simply wrong. This is as it should be. You think there is something wrong with that or something? The fact that an idea may be "new" (which, incidentally, anti-vaccine hysteria is certainly not - there have been anti-vaccers as long as there have been vaccines) does not make it correct.

[crocoduck]

I don't think you've examined the hypothesis because it doesn't fit into your criteria of the definition of proper science.

It is not as if I am using some personalized definition of proper science here.

[madgoone]

explain this ffs! vaccine dont harm huh!

http://iansvoice.org/default.aspx

[kweli]

explain this ffs! vaccine dont harm huh!

http://iansvoice.org/default.aspx

Heartbreaking. Thanks for the link.

[tracker]

Oh look the usual forum troll has entered yet againwith another 5 posts that do not have anything to do with the thread -------im thinking of asking a mod to -----------do something about this as they are a complete troll / waist of time / bad mannered gimp --------and a mentaly incapable person of even being here on forum ----its as if they are actually doing this on perpose .

:cool:

[tracker]

crocoduck ! forum rules !

you are breaking them time and time again !

do not post irrelevant images or text in other people's topics for no reason other than disruption;

[limelady]

O.K.

This thread has been suffering under the weight of heavy disruption for some time.

Any further disruptive posts will be removed and the disrupter will receive spam notices.

PLEASE READ THE FORUM GUIDELINES - We do not tolerate trolling.

Stay on topic folks, make your points, and continue without personal insults.

Thanks to all of you for your co-operation in this matter.

[metaphor]

Heartbreaking. Thanks for the link.

Truly heartbreaking. Just wanna cry. I guess my daughter came off ok by comprasion to that.

[paolo]

I gained some spam points some time ago for trying to pinpoint the source of disruption and reporting it. I don't want to incur any more, but would suggest the source of disruption is very clear, the intentions are very obvious, and the solution is very easy. Without the perpetual derogatory interventions, this isnt simple disagreement- the thread starter's dilemma might be dealt with in sympathetic form by people who understand his position

[kweli]

Truly heartbreaking. Just wanna cry. I guess my daughter came off ok by comprasion to that.

My grandson got off lightly too (severe autism). Hope your daughter's doing ok :)

[metaphor]

My grandson got off lightly too (severe autism). Hope your daughter's doing ok :)

eczema and random tantrum, but then again im just a "stupid tinfoilhat alarmist who doesnt know anything about real science" :mad:

[hagbard_celine]

So instead of responding to what I actually said, you decide to respond to what "a TV show once" said. LOL. Pitiful.

That's unfair... not that I was expecting any better:rolleyes::p. The source of the information is irrelevent to the fact that it can be corroborated from other resources, such as the life of Joseph Bazelgette.;)

[hagbard_celine]

This is as it should be. You think there is something wrong with that or something? The fact that an idea may be "new" (which, incidentally, anti-vaccine hysteria is certainly not - there have been anti-vaccers as long as there have been vaccines) does not make it correct.

No, the well-conducted research makes them correct.

new ideas will have a more difficult time getting past peer review because most new ideas are simply wrong.

I think we both know that that is not always the case;):rolleyes:.

[paolo]

did crocoduck manage to do for this thread? As intended. The trail off items were/are all to do with those interventions.
One marked up to the trolls?

[motleyhoo]

did crocoduck manage to do for this thread? As intended. The trail off items were/are all to do with those interventions.
One marked up to the trolls?

No, because the following post refutes everything crocoduck was saying -->
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=79591

As for the OP, what is there to say? You're either going to give in and get the shots, or you're going to fight like hell to avoid them. There is no middle ground. And if your braindead family won't listen there isn't anything you can do about it.

.

[bsmurph83]

No, the well-conducted research makes them correct.



I think we both know that that is not always the case;):rolleyes:.


hagbard, for god's sake!!! stop feeding the troll, he's gonna blow! lol

but seriously... trying repeatedly to correct a thread derailer just further derails the thread (not that i'm completely innocent in that regard). surely there was a point you realised you were wasting your time? no disrespect intended, haggers :cool:

question: is the OP still even 'here'?

[beldazar]

Exactly! Nuff said. Because there is no mercury in vaccines. Thimerosol was removed nearly a decade ago. So it's "nuff said" in the sense that saying such a thing is an easy tell that you are lying.

What's even worse about this anti-vaccination business (and it IS a business) is that it causes a backlash against reasonable concerns actual scientists might have against particular vaccines for reasons that are based in reality.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/01/27/mercury-in-vaccines-was-replaced-with-something-even-more-toxic.aspx

Mercury In Vaccines Was Replaced With Something Even MORE Toxic


The short, eye-opening eBook linked below is titled Aluminum in Vaccines -- a Neurological Gamble, by Neil Miller, director of the Thinktwice Global Vaccine Institute. It documents the hazards associated with aluminum-laden vaccines. Children are receiving high concentrations of aluminum in their shots. This well-documented neurotoxin may be more dangerous than mercury.

Vaccines containing high concentrations of neurotoxic aluminum were added to the child immunization schedule when several vaccines containing mercury were removed. Two-month old babies now receive 1,225 mcg of aluminum from their vaccines -- 50 times higher than safety levels! Although the FDA, CDC and World Health Organization are aware of the dangers, they expect parents to play Russian roulette with their children.

Sources:

Aluminum in Vaccines -- a Neurological Gamble (PDF)




Dr. Mercola's Comments:


When mercury was removed from many vaccines (except the flu vaccine) years ago, it was under the false guise that finally vaccines were now safe. What health agencies did not want you to know is that there are many other toxic additives still in vaccines, and one of them is aluminum.

Aluminum has not received the widespread media attention that mercury has, therefore many people don’t realize it’s a health risk.


“Aluminum is not perceived, I believe, by the public as a dangerous metal. Therefore, we are in a much more comfortable wicket in terms of defending its presence in vaccines,” said Dr. John Clements, WHO vaccine advisor.


Notice he said that aluminum is “not perceived” by the public as a dangerous metal … he couldn’t say simply that aluminum is safe, because this would be a lie.

Why is Aluminum Added to Vaccines?

Every vaccine has two components, the agent that you’re seeking to elicit an immune response to, such as a measles virus, and an immune adjuvant, which enhances the immune response and is typically made from a variety of highly toxic compounds including aluminum compounds, MSG, and mercury. The purpose of immune adjuvants is to boost your immune system, or to make it react as intensely as possible for as long as possible.

Unlike a natural immune boost that would come from, say, eating healthy and exercising, artificial immune adjuvants can be dangerous in and of themselves. Says Dr. Russell Blaylock, M.D., a board-certified neurosurgeon and author:


“Studies have shown that these adjuvants, from a single vaccine, can cause immune overactivation for as long as two years. This means that the brain microglia remain active as well, continuously pouring out destructive chemicals.



In fact, one study found that a single injection of an immune activating substance could cause brain immune overactivation for over a year. This is very destructive.”


How Aluminum Can Harm Your Brain

When you or your child is injected with a vaccine, the aluminum compounds it contains accumulate not only at the site of injection but travel to your brain and accumulate there. In your brain, aluminum enters neurons and glial cells (astrocytes and microglia).

Studies have shown that aluminum can activate microglia and do so for long periods, which means that the aluminum in your vaccination is priming your microglia to overreact.

The next vaccine acts to trigger the enhanced inflammatory reaction and release of the excitotoxins, glutamate and quinolinic acid, Dr. Blaylock points out.

Meanwhile, if you come down with an infection, are exposed to more toxins, or have a stroke or head injury of any kind, this will magnify the inflammatory reaction occurring in your brain due to the vaccines. Research has shown that the more your immune system remains activated, the more likely it is you’ll suffer from a neurodegenerative disease.

The aluminum hydroxide used in many vaccines, including hepatitis A and B, and the Pentacel cocktail for diphtheria, pertussis, tetanus, polio, and meningitis, has been clearly linked to symptoms associated with Parkinson"s, ALS (Lou Gehrig"s disease), and Alzheimer"s.

Scientists discovered the link after injecting mice with an anthrax vaccine developed for the first Gulf War. After 20 weeks, a fifth of the mice developed a skin allergy, and memory problems increased by 41 times compared to a placebo group. Also, inside the brains of mice, 35 percent of the cells that control movement were destroyed.

There is overwhelming evidence that chronic immune activation in your brain, as discussed by Dr. Blaylock above, is a major cause of damage in numerous degenerative brain disorders, from multiple sclerosis Alzheimer"s disease, Parkinson"s and ALS, which may explain the link between aluminum-containing vaccines and these diseases.

Late last year a team of scientists also found that vaccination involving aluminum-containing adjuvants could trigger the cascade of immunological events that are associated with autoimmune conditions, including chronic fatigue syndrome and macrophagic myofasciitis, a condition that causes profound weakness and multiple neurological syndromes, one of which closely resembles multiple sclerosis.

Even a study in Pediatrics, the official journal of the American Academy of Pediatrics, admitted that:


“Aluminum is now being implicated as interfering with a variety of cellular and metabolic processes in the nervous system and in other tissues.”


This has led some experts to suggest that aluminum in vaccines may be linked to autism.

Just How Much Aluminum Could Your Child be Exposed To?

If you are a parent of a young child I highly recommend you read the entire eBook linked above, as it spells out very clearly just how much aluminum will be injected into your child if you follow the Center for Disease Control’s (CDC) vaccine schedule.

In short, babies who follow the recommended vaccination schedule are injected with nearly 5,000 mcg (5 mg) of aluminum by the time they are just 1.5 years old.

The FDA considers levels of aluminum up to 0.85mg to be “safe,” so you do the math on the risk involved here.

For parents, the issue of what to do about these risks can be very confusing. So please do take your time to thoroughly research the risks of vaccinations before making up your mind. Dr. Blaylock’s article, The Danger of Excessive Vaccination During Brain Development: The Case for a Link to Autism Spectrum Disorders, is an excellent starting point that I highly recommend.

If you’re looking for a more sensible, “user-friendly” vaccination schedule that may present fewer risks than the CDC’s “one-size-fits-all” schedule, Dr. Donald Miller advises the following:

1. No vaccinations until your child is 2 years old.
2. No vaccines that contain thimerosal (mercury).
3. No live virus vaccines.
4. The following vaccines should be given one at a time (not as a combination vaccine), every six months, beginning at age 2:

a. Pertussis (acellular, not whole cell)
b. Diphtheria
c. Tetanus
d. Polio (the Salk vaccine, cultured in human cells)


And that would be pretty much it as far as vaccinations. Your pediatrician will not like this schedule, but if you have reviewed the evidence and still feel your child should be inoculated to a certain degree, this is a far safer alternative to the standard vaccination schedule. If your pediatrician doesn’t agree, or isn’t open to discussing this issue with you, it’s high time to find a new one who will understand your concerns.




Edit. I've just read through the thread and apologise if this diverts from the OP's post. I was just replying to crocs post. Shouldnt have bothered really.....

[bsmurph83]

...and the scary thing is, beldazar, that when aluminum combines with fluoride, you get alzheimer's! which means it's lucky they don't put fluoride in the drinking water...oh, wait...no, they do.

[beldazar]

...and the scary thing is, beldazar, that when aluminum combines with fluoride, you get alzheimer's! which means it's lucky they don't put fluoride in the drinking water...oh, wait...no, they do.

sort of did an ironic kind of giggle there....:rolleyes: ;)

[hagbard_celine]

hagbard, for god's sake!!! stop feeding the troll, he's gonna blow! lol

but seriously... trying repeatedly to correct a thread derailer just further derails the thread (not that i'm completely innocent in that regard). surely there was a point you realised you were wasting your time? no disrespect intended, haggers :cool:

question: is the OP still even 'here'?

Sorry, I took the bait didn't I.:o:( I swore to myself that I wouldn't fall for that again.

But it's not the end of the world. I for one Spaceman my full support. I can sympathize with his predicament. My GP gave me a scathing look when I told him he couldn't give to flu vaccine to my own child.

Peer pressure is a method the authorities use to bring us into line. As David says: The prisoners police each other.

[scooby doo]

My wee boy started P2 last week on a wed, by Fri he had a wee printout about swine flu....2 days back and wee blue A4 page on Swine Flu...lol sad really...I was expecting it but thought they would have gave it at least 2 weeks not two days. Was just the basic info about 'swine flu' the one that say's that if you have the signs of flu then it is 'swine flu' :rolleyes: crazy. Well His mother and me feel that he will not need no jabs thank you very much...

[lyndon]

:mad:I have been shunned by some parents at my daughters local school, for advising a few of my parent friends, not to let their child have the vaccine that is planned, some time when the school opens after the summer break. More exposure needs to implemented to advise parents of the situation regarding these deadly vaccines. I do my best to inform them, but they look at me as if I am crazy for saying such things, and putting these ideas in their children's heads. My 10 year old daughter knows everything about what's going on regarding the deadly vaccine and she quite openly tells all her friends at school. I don't mind my daughter knowing about the vaccine, in fact I promote it, and so should other parents, not to scare them but, to inform them of the situation. They have a right to know, considering it's them that are being targeted first. Does anyone disagree with me ? I wonder.:confused:

just read through all the replies, you can listen to others but believe what you feel - not being an expert i think you know that you have done right,

No proof I'm afraid to say MR CROCK or what ever his name is but, it's evident that X amount of the population (majority) will believe the media, school pamphlets and queue up to vaccinate. X will be very difficult to change? but it's ok to try and we should.

y, for example you and i and a few others, minority will wait,

The Z people either know the truth or require proof and analysis but unfortunately with humans it is never 100% accurate,

Do you remember at school the intelligent brainy types, they were completely worlds apart