Why do they allow us psychedelic drugs?

[cleft_asunder]

If drugs like Ayahuasca and mushrooms were really a threat to the Illuminati, then why are the ingredients needed to make/grow them on the market? Why do places like Amsterdam exist? You can get bnisteriopsis caapi, chakruna, syrian rue, mimosa, mushrooms spores all legally in the U.S. They are sold for "scientific purposes" only, yet there's no mystery as to what people do with them.

I don't get it.

[barbitone]

1.There are a hell of a lot of them and many people do just like to grow the plants as ornamentals. You couldn't just make all DMT potent Acacia's illegal for instance....

2.It's also not that easy to extract the chemicals form the plants either. It takes more effort and understanding then say growing pot.

3.I'm pretty sure all of the places that these things are sold don't have such strict drug laws as some other places. Such as Amsterdam....

4.By making certain plants illegal it only highlights to the people which plants are the most potent and therefore they are the ones you want!

[barbitone]

If drugs like Ayahuasca and mushrooms were really a threat to the Illuminati, then why are the ingredients needed to make/grow them on the market? Why do places like Amsterdam exist? You can get bnisteriopsis caapi, chakruna, syrian rue, mimosa, mushrooms spores all legally in the U.S. They are sold for "scientific purposes" only, yet there's no mystery as to what people do with them.

I don't get it.

Also don't forget that the Illuminati don't have ABSOLUTE control. It's not as simple as that....they have to convince the people to do it themselves, so if they disagree it wont happen.

[chris]

In addition to Barbitones points. It's just not plausable to wake people up with drugs, it's hard enough to get them to watch a video...

[thisisactuallymyluciddream]

Also don't forget that the Illuminati don't have ABSOLUTE control. It's not as simple as that....they have to convince the people to do it themselves, so if they disagree it wont happen.

Ahh, they must not have absolute control, or we would not be here on Icke's site, would we?!?!?!

[cleft_asunder]

Wake people up to what? I don't see how the content of any video's is relevant to psychedelic experience. Most sheep who experience psychedelic states simply think it's a hallucination. Mushrooms for example are commonly done open-eyed, making the experience nothing more than a 5-sense high. You don't really get anything spiritual out of it. And even when the sheep do it closed-eyed, they still think it's a hallucination. I'm speaking generally.

But is it the sheep who matter? I don't think so. It's people like us that are the threat, so why allow us to access Ayahuasca? Why allow me to experient with a drug that opens me up spiritually?

When the Illuminati want to ban something, they do it. They wanted hemp growing to stop because it made us more free, so they convinced the population that it was the same as the THC-containing marijuana. They killed two birds with one stone: Hemp growing nearly stopped, and real, pure, untainted, unmodified marijuana could be replaced with Illuminati-pot. Fast forward present day, and it's all shipped in by the CIA or MI5. The Illuminati dumb us down with their pot, and profit off of it.

My point is that hemp was a threat, and they did something about it. They could do the same with psychedelic drugs.

[thisisactuallymyluciddream]

Still Cleft has a valid point, I know psychedelics were a HUGE part of the veil being lifted from my eyes, and do take them as part of my research. I have no trouble getting a hold of them, except DMT:p.

[chris]

Wake people up to what? I don't see how the content of any video's is relevant to psychedelic experience. Most sheep who experience psychedelic states simply think it's a hallucination. Mushrooms for example are commonly done open-eyed, making the experience nothing more than a 5-sense high. You don't really get anything spiritual out of it. And even when the sheep do it closed-eyed, they still think it's a hallucination. I'm speaking generally.


Well that was an elaboration on my point...I don't think they see psychadelics as a threat at all. Look at Terrance Mckenna, was he a threat? Did he opened up spiritually (i'm talking rhetorically).

Now anti nwo videos are dangerous to them as when someone see's one of those, they turn completely against the ptb.

Drugs can open peoples minds in a big way to see that there is much more to life but like you said, most of them will think it's nothing more than a hollucination (which for the most part it is).

[whitenight639]

also places like amsterdam exist with relaxed laws because of the tourism revenue that it create, the nwo arnt in control everywhere they are a few men in a lot of political parties and companies/ governments. + there the biggest hypnocrits ever they probably use then themselfs.

[peachped]

Maybe the NWO believe that people on drugs can't organise themselves into any sort of effective opposition?

Just a thought. :rolleyes:

[baron von lotsov]

If drugs like Ayahuasca and mushrooms were really a threat to the Illuminati, then why are the ingredients needed to make/grow them on the market? Why do places like Amsterdam exist? You can get bnisteriopsis caapi, chakruna, syrian rue, mimosa, mushrooms spores all legally in the U.S. They are sold for "scientific purposes" only, yet there's no mystery as to what people do with them.

I don't get it.


When you do you will understand how deep the rabbit hole goes, as Icke would say. Here is a clue to help you understand.

When you do mushrooms and acid regularly what tends to happen to your brain. If you wanted to organise a serious resistance to the well-organised authorities would it help or hinder your efforts if your entire army was tripping out?

Come on now, you just have to put your beliefs aside and think logically about this one.

[cleft_asunder]

Ah but the difference is that MI6 and the CIA (Cocaine Import Agency) made skunk 30x more potent, can't see them wanting to do that to DMT.

Its amazing how they wanted to secure Afghanistan to reduce drugs inthe west and since they have, the import of drugs has actually increased!!!

30x? Shit. But what's the point? Also, that can't be all. I'm strongly suspect it's all genetically modified to mess us up. I mean look at the fucking fruits and vegetables in the grocery stores, they are like shadows of their former state. They keep us alive, but that's almost it. Although there are some really good organic's out there, ironically with the sun symbol (as always).

See, stuff really isn't making sense for me these days. It's like, the Illuminati are supposed to hate us and should do anything to enslave us in their NWO, yet it doesn't seem that way. I mean look at the sun symbol on the below carrots. I've had these carrots and they are fantastic, as are their other products. If the Illuminati control this company, why give us good stuff? You ban hemp, now destroy organics. Why not take control of the company, and then force it into bankruptcy like they always do? (Assuming the Illuminati weren't the original founders)

http://www.bolthouse.com/graphics/organic_bag.jpg

It's easy to say that this is all because of the awakening, but it doesn't explain why psychedelic drugs weren't banned before there were any awakening symptoms in the populace. And given that the awakening is now happening, the illuminati should flat-out ban the use of these drugs since it speeds up the process. I mean seriously, does anyone here think that banning these "drugs" would be a challenge? They were able to ban vitamins and minerals and such in the EU or UK, if I'm not mistaken.

You know there was a poster here who said that the Illuminati are us, and the more I think about it the more it makes sense. I can't quite understand how it works myself --it obviously has to do with the fact that everything is one, and that oneness is God.

[cleft_asunder]

When you do you will understand how deep the rabbit hole goes, as Icke would say. Here is a clue to help you understand.

When you do mushrooms and acid regularly what tends to happen to your brain. If you wanted to organise a serious resistance to the well-organised authorities would it help or hinder your efforts if your entire army was tripping out?

Come on now, you just have to put your beliefs aside and think logically about this one.

That makes no sense, with the exception of LSD which was tested on the population in the 70's, and which does mess you up over time.

Ayahuasca on the other hand isn't a fun recreational drug, it's a medicine, and it's very serious. It's not something you want to do because you're bored. You can't manipulate anyone through the drug because it's not addictive physically or even mentally. The only way to become addicted is if you have a craving for being spiritual, and understanding the nature of reality and the meaning of it all.

Ayahuasca does not aid the Illuminati. They designed the whole Earth-Matrix so that we are dumbed down to the 5-senses with little connection to the soul, yet all of a sudden Ayahuasca is in the picture. This makes no sense.

[21_12_2012]

Some good points you've raised cleft... i have been confused about the very same issues as you speak of myself recently...

Although.. magic mushrooms were recently banned in the UK (2005/2006 i think) in any form whatsoever... the law used to be you could possess them in the raw form but not in any treated form (such as powdered...dried and prepared etc) but now they're banned completely.

Also in amsterdam recently the death of a young girl was splashed over the media after she took magic mushrooms bought in an amsterdam cafe, and jumped off a building and died... which has made amsterdam consider tightening their laws / banning mushrooms.

But like you say, i find it hard to understand the organic business... also here in the UK 2 major supermarkets have announced that by the end of 2007, 100% of the products sold in their supermarkets will be additive-free... that did confuse me.. (asda and sainsburys)

My first thought was that they want people to 'wake up' to an extent (by giving us decent foods) so they will see what's been going on with the manipulation of everything, and start a revolution, so they can bring the police state in quicker... but i don't know if that's the idea or not.. i am confused same as most people i suppose.

[whitenight639]

That makes no sense, with the exception of LSD which was tested on the population in the 70's, and which does mess you up over time.

Ayahuasca on the other hand isn't a fun recreational drug, it's a medicine, and it's very serious. It's not something you want to do because you're bored. You can't manipulate anyone through the drug because it's not addictive physically or even mentally. The only way to become addicted is if you have a craving for being spiritual, and understanding the nature of reality and the meaning of it all.

Ayahuasca does not aid the Illuminati. They designed the whole Earth-Matrix so that we are dumbed down to the 5-senses with little connection to the soul, yet all of a sudden Ayahuasca is in the picture. This makes no sense.

I see where your coming from but understand that the nwo are frail old men and they are really trying to keep the lid on spiritual drugs, look at the amount of rainforest dissapearing there are probably undiscovered plant that could cure many diseases. I know what you mean tho is like the truman show atm, its like its just me in a see of actors and things are happening around me because of me, strange co-incedences etc. Its like the nwo want us to know what they are doing.

[cleft_asunder]

I see where your coming from but understand that the nwo are frail old men and they are really trying to keep the lid on spiritual drugs, look at the amount of rainforest dissapearing there are probably undiscovered plant that could cure many diseases. I know what you mean tho is like the truman show atm, its like its just me in a see of actors and things are happening around me because of me, strange co-incedences etc. Its like the nwo want us to know what they are doing.

Right, it's like they want us to know what their doing! That's my point. There's a lot of examples of that. For example, they openly talk about NAFTA and the NAU and tell us to go against it, this on FOX news or whatever.

[cleft_asunder]

Some good points you've raised cleft... i have been confused about the very same issues as you speak of myself recently...

Although.. magic mushrooms were recently banned in the UK (2005/2006 i think) in any form whatsoever... the law used to be you could possess them in the raw form but not in any treated form (such as powdered...dried and prepared etc) but now they're banned completely.

Also in amsterdam recently the death of a young girl was splashed over the media after she took magic mushrooms bought in an amsterdam cafe, and jumped off a building and died... which has made amsterdam consider tightening their laws / banning mushrooms.

But like you say, i find it hard to understand the organic business... also here in the UK 2 major supermarkets have announced that by the end of 2007, 100% of the products sold in their supermarkets will be additive-free... that did confuse me.. (asda and sainsburys)

My first thought was that they want people to 'wake up' to an extent (by giving us decent foods) so they will see what's been going on with the manipulation of everything, and start a revolution, so they can bring the police state in quicker... but i don't know if that's the idea or not.. i am confused same as most people i suppose.

I think it's a big mess because of the awakening. What else would it be? They must be struggling for control. That's why everything is so confusing. Humanity is waking up and naturally fighting back. Take Trader Joe's for example. They started out in California and are now in Nevada and other states, moving East. They opened up a new store 30 miles from me. Everything they sell is just bomb, and definitely counter-productive to the Illuminati. Yet it's thriving, and the people are loving it.

I don't know what I'd do without Trader Joe's. They aren't perfect, but 90% of their products are healthy and fit for human consumption.

[21_12_2012]

It reminds me of the phrase:-

"the calm before the storm"

Maybe they're lulling us all into a false sense of security... building us all up... letting us all be happy... have good foods... cheap goods... value for money.... everyone's getting happier... and then BANG... they get us big time with some major evil stuff to bring us crashing right down... hopefully not but that's what it feels like sometimes.

[whitenight639]

I don't know what I'd do without Trader Joe's. They aren't perfect, but 90% of their products are healthy and fit for human consumption.

is this like holland and barrat in the UK, a heath food shop with stuff you cant get in supermarkets, like every vitamin pill you can think off, nuts and seeds, pure aloe vera juice etc?

As for them showing us the whats happening i suppose its either to incite revoulution and violence = police state or maybe there is a branch off ex freemasons (or regular joes) that know whats happening and changing things from, people that have influencial jobs and can drop subtle hints like the odd news report on fox, or inviting the right guest on a radio show that you know oppose the nwo without mentioning them. etc... i dunno

[cleft_asunder]

It reminds me of the phrase:-

"the calm before the storm"

Maybe they're lulling us all into a false sense of security... building us all up... letting us all be happy... have good foods... cheap goods... value for money.... everyone's getting happier... and then BANG... they get us big time with some major evil stuff to bring us crashing right down... hopefully not but that's what it feels like sometimes.

Nah. Their plan is to create the Apocalypse, but their plan isn't going smoothly. The Middle East thing is moving slowly. September 11 is waking people up all the time, which was the whole pretext for us being in there. "Conspiracy theories" regarding 9/11 are so common that the news stations have to constantly tell the views how crazy they are if they believe in them.

They are definitely planning more 9/11 type things, but I don't think there's a way to enslave us in the NWO with a single swipe.

[cleft_asunder]

is this like holland and barrat in the UK, a heath food shop with stuff you cant get in supermarkets, like every vitamin pill you can think off, nuts and seeds, pure aloe vera juice etc?

As for them showing us the whats happening i suppose its either to incite revoulution and violence = police state or maybe there is a branch off ex freemasons (or regular joes) that know whats happening and changing things from, people that have influencial jobs and can drop subtle hints like the odd news report on fox, or inviting the right guest on a radio show that you know oppose the nwo without mentioning them. etc... i dunno

Yeah, same type of store, except maybe smaller. What do you do with Aloe juice anyway?

[cheeb]

When you do you will understand how deep the rabbit hole goes, as Icke would say. Here is a clue to help you understand.

When you do mushrooms and acid regularly what tends to happen to your brain. If you wanted to organise a serious resistance to the well-organised authorities would it help or hinder your efforts if your entire army was tripping out?

Come on now, you just have to put your beliefs aside and think logically about this one.
You are ,
In Psychological Terms,
The most Anal retentive person,
I have ever had the pleasure,
Not to meet,
Now Piss off '
And get a life,
You Carbuncle on the face of Gods Earth..

[uchiha]

Hi guys

I live in canada and have been actively seeking the use of Hallucinagenics.

However I've always been under the impression that Mushrooms are just a trip for like... dirtbag teenagers... Salvia is just.. like mushrooms
And DMT or Ahajuyasca Is ... well i wouldnt know WHERE to start looking for someone who could sell me it.

are there any of these substances i can take that are..
How can i put this "Approved" by someone of experience with these things
Note: they are for spiritual purposes only
DMT mainly since i would like to give some medicine to my peneal gland (Which ive learned from many of you forum goe'rs it really helps its functions)

[baron von lotsov]

You are ,
In Psychological Terms,
The most Anal retentive person,
I have ever had the pleasure,
Not to meet,
Now Piss off '
And get a life,
You Carbuncle on the face of Gods Earth..


You can't face upto the facts.

Somethings you are just going to have to rethink if you want to understand what is going on. We have all been there. I'm sure practically everyone on here at some stage in their life got conned and now they have had to deal with it. I almost joined up with the greenies just because I thought they did some good festivals, but I jumped ship when I noticed men going around in skirts and women who would make Greenham Common veterans look attractive. How long until you can't take these contradictions anymore? Basically the longer you leave it the worse it will get.

[baron von lotsov]

That makes no sense, with the exception of LSD which was tested on the population in the 70's, and which does mess you up over time.

Ayahuasca on the other hand isn't a fun recreational drug, it's a medicine, and it's very serious. It's not something you want to do because you're bored. You can't manipulate anyone through the drug because it's not addictive physically or even mentally. The only way to become addicted is if you have a craving for being spiritual, and understanding the nature of reality and the meaning of it all.

Ayahuasca does not aid the Illuminati. They designed the whole Earth-Matrix so that we are dumbed down to the 5-senses with little connection to the soul, yet all of a sudden Ayahuasca is in the picture. This makes no sense.

OK what I said before is not the whole story. It is one reason they invested in LSD in the 60s but this stuff you talk about I think is more to do with the occult. The latest craze around here in 'occult central' is shamanism and that involves hallucinogenics. They don't stop at LSD but do all sorts of 'shamanic' drugs which most of us have never heard of.

If you want to know more about why look at this book 'The Illuminati Formula Used to Create an Undetectable Total Mind Controlled Slave' it explains that demonic possession can be a lot easier with powerful drugs. They open up a sort of portal where they can enter into that person. I met an example of someone who was screwed up the other day. I mean seriously mentally ill and you would not want to end up like that, I can tell you. Another person a couple of years ago died while experimenting with Shamanism.

[limelady]

From what I can gather, the Illuminati are experiencing a lot of 'in house' problems, in that there are splits and cracks appearing within their own numbers. Some of them are sick of what the others (the NWO brigade) are up to and are pushing for disclosure. They've had enough. It cant be easy a few trying to control a complete planet of awakening people. Some have realised the writing is on the wall for them and are prepared for the change.....others are trying desperately to hang on to their power.

I think times are changing so rapidly, and people are awakening from their slumber at an ever increasing pace that the 'bad' illuminists are now struggling to even just keep a handle on some of their most basic control mechanisms .....even controlling those within their own ranks is proving nightmarish for them.

IMO it all starting to come undone and they are running scared because they are losing the absolute control they have been planning and working towards for this period of Earth history. They know its only a matter of time and THEY are history, but some of them will fight on till the end because this is all they know.

[baron von lotsov]

Yes, I see that as well. I help with this ID card campaign and we get some weird support, I can tell you. Even the ex-head of MI5 and a lot of other people you would not expect. Certainly a lot of lords are very keen to help us and even some cryptography expert who worked in the military on the skynet project. One thing though is they are genuine and this surprises me all the more.

[auron]

http://www.visualbliss.co.uk/gallery/artwork/images/magic%20mushroom%20picture.jpg

[cleft_asunder]

OK what I said before is not the whole story. It is one reason they invested in LSD in the 60s but this stuff you talk about I think is more to do with the occult. The latest craze around here in 'occult central' is shamanism and that involves hallucinogenics. They don't stop at LSD but do all sorts of 'shamanic' drugs which most of us have never heard of.

If you want to know more about why look at this book 'The Illuminati Formula Used to Create an Undetectable Total Mind Controlled Slave' it explains that demonic possession can be a lot easier with powerful drugs. They open up a sort of portal where they can enter into that person. I met an example of someone who was screwed up the other day. I mean seriously mentally ill and you would not want to end up like that, I can tell you. Another person a couple of years ago died while experimenting with Shamanism.

Well occult just means hidden or hidden knowledge. As for demonic posession, this aspect would be far more frequent on a forum like the ayahuasca forum, but I never read of any experiences like that. People have "bad" trips all the time, but it's part of the medicine. I don't know to what extent demonic possession is common, but at the most it doesn't seem frequent at all.

I have read from James Bartley that crank makes you open to demonic possession.

Any way, I'm glad you brought this up because I forgot. However, I'm currently unconvinced that this is the reason they keep it on the market for us to experiment with. People do these all the time, many 'willy-nilly' style, and they don't become possessed.

[william_mac]

I hate "brain" drugs, as I call them. I've tried various types of shrooms, I've done LCD. I kept hoping for a good and fun experience, I have never had one.

I kept telling myself "this isn't real" and the more I did, the worse everything got. Almost as fast as I began hallucinating the faster i wanted it to end. Hah hah, brain drugs are not for me.

I was always more into blow and heroin... things I could do and feel, but be able to carry on through the day normally. Brain drugs take too much time and effort, and they aren't fun. But there is nothing wrong with them.

E was fun, and that's kind of hallucinatory, but it was totally different. Too bad it depleates the seritonin in the brain and damages receptors.

I tell you what, if only drugs were safer. Hah. I'd do them all the time. I miss that old rock n' roll lifestyle though.



-William
www.William-Mac.com

[baron von lotsov]

Well occult just means hidden or hidden knowledge. As for demonic posession, this aspect would be far more frequent on a forum like the ayahuasca forum, but I never read of any experiences like that. People have "bad" trips all the time, but it's part of the medicine. I don't know to what extent demonic possession is common, but at the most it doesn't seem frequent at all.

I have read from James Bartley that crank makes you open to demonic possession.

Any way, I'm glad you brought this up because I forgot. However, I'm currently unconvinced that this is the reason they keep it on the market for us to experiment with. People do these all the time, many 'willy-nilly' style, and they don't become possessed.

Most drugs are on the market for numerous reasons. Firstly the historic reason that the British Empire did not make its money importing tea, which is the popular myth. The opium wars were very important to Britain, they made a fortune out of a business where they would decimate the markets of places like India by flooding it with goods produced by slave labour in the northern cotton mills. This in turn meant that people were out of work and had to resort to making money flooding the country with opium. They managed this in India and China, although the Chinese government put up a fight they were eventually defeated in a long stand off where they realised it was better to cooperate.

The second reason for drugs is to create social unrest, crime and the underworld in general which serves numerous purposes including that if they want to assassinate someone they can always pass it off onto these people and/or use blackmail etc.

The final point though is a little bit more difficult for you people to understand because you are so indoctrinated by the popularisation of drugs. They can screw people up, they can make people amoral, and really, it can be the road to hell. You can see it just as clearly with excessive alcohol consumption and it is not referred to as the demon drink for nothing. Indeed when you say things like relax, let your hair down and be open and free, what it really amounts to is a relaxation in one's defences on a mental level.

How many times has a man cheated on their girlfriend when drunk? You see my point; things that you would normally feel bad about when you are out of your head can appear to be acceptable. You loose that moral awareness of the difference between right and wrong. Now the next step is to think this is enlightenment. Well it could be said to be but only in the demonic sense of the word, as in the light of Lucifer. If you understand how evil overcomes people you will know it does so often as a kind of euphoric alpha state or trance like state where the person willingly accepts that evil energy masquerading as something good and beneficial. This is a subtle point so I hope you get it. All our indoctrination has been to mitigate against this understanding, it is often referred to as old fashioned, superstition or unscientific. However if you study what the occultists do you will see clearly that excessive drink and drugs are like a part of their religion. Look at Sir Francis Dashwood and the Hellfire Club as a case in point.

[cleft_asunder]

Most drugs are on the market for numerous reasons. Firstly the historic reason that the British Empire did not make its money importing tea, which is the popular myth. The opium wars were very important to Britain, they made a fortune out of a business where they would decimate the markets of places like India by flooding it with goods produced by slave labour in the northern cotton mills. This in turn meant that people were out of work and had to resort to making money flooding the country with opium. They managed this in India and China, although the Chinese government put up a fight they were eventually defeated in a long stand off where they realised it was better to cooperate.

The second reason for drugs is to create social unrest, crime and the underworld in general which serves numerous purposes including that if they want to assassinate someone they can always pass it off onto these people and/or use blackmail etc.

The final point though is a little bit more difficult for you people to understand because you are so indoctrinated by the popularisation of drugs. They can screw people up, they can make people amoral, and really, it can be the road to hell. You can see it just as clearly with excessive alcohol consumption and it is not referred to as the demon drink for nothing. Indeed when you say things like relax, let your hair down and be open and free, what it really amounts to is a relaxation in one's defences on a mental level.

How many times has a man cheated on their girlfriend when drunk? You see my point; things that you would normally feel bad about when you are out of your head can appear to be acceptable. You loose that moral awareness of the difference between right and wrong. Now the next step is to think this is enlightenment. Well it could be said to be but only in the demonic sense of the word, as in the light of Lucifer. If you understand how evil overcomes people you will know it does so often as a kind of euphoric alpha state or trance like state where the person willingly accepts that evil energy masquerading as something good and beneficial. This is a subtle point so I hope you get it. All our indoctrination has been to mitigate against this understanding, it is often referred to as old fashioned, superstition or unscientific. However if you study what the occultists do you will see clearly that excessive drink and drugs are like a part of their religion. Look at Sir Francis Dashwood and the Hellfire Club as a case in point.


Yes but Ayahuasca, peyote, mushrooms are not drugs, they are medicines, and they are the exception. They should not be lumped into the catagory of LSD, ecstacy, crank, alcohol, which are all man-made. Like hemp, those medicines grow from the earth as a gift to humans, or more accurately they are there as an insurance that humanity doesn't loose connection with the spirit.

[cleft_asunder]

From what I can gather, the Illuminati are experiencing a lot of 'in house' problems, in that there are splits and cracks appearing within their own numbers. Some of them are sick of what the others (the NWO brigade) are up to and are pushing for disclosure. They've had enough. It cant be easy a few trying to control a complete planet of awakening people. Some have realised the writing is on the wall for them and are prepared for the change.....others are trying desperately to hang on to their power.

I think times are changing so rapidly, and people are awakening from their slumber at an ever increasing pace that the 'bad' illuminists are now struggling to even just keep a handle on some of their most basic control mechanisms .....even controlling those within their own ranks is proving nightmarish for them.

IMO it all starting to come undone and they are running scared because they are losing the absolute control they have been planning and working towards for this period of Earth history. They know its only a matter of time and THEY are history, but some of them will fight on till the end because this is all they know.

I hope you're right. So where do you get your info?

[auron]

Yes but Ayahuasca, peyote, mushrooms are not drugs, they are medicines, and they are the exception. They should not be lumped into the catagory of LSD, ecstacy, crank, alcohol, which are all man-made. Like hemp, those medicines grow from the earth as a gift to humans, or more accurately they are there as an insurance that humanity doesn't loose connection with the spirit.
End of story! :)

[sensimillia]

I've done LCD

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/7834/mfj107byr5.jpg

that got me laughing.;) you mean LSD, and yes if you´re not in a harmonous state when taking it, it can be horrible.cheers william!

[william_mac]

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/7834/mfj107byr5.jpg

that got me laughing.;) you mean LSD, and yes if you´re not in a harmonous state when taking it, it can be horrible.cheers william!


Hah hah, whoops! I type my replies on here so fast. Yeah, you know, that's what everybody told me. The first time I did "LCD" (heh) I was alone. I'm a painter, so i thought I would do some cool drawings and paintings, and I put on some cool tunes. But... really, I was annoyed. The whole experience was just bothering me, it wasn't horrible, but it wasn't great, I just didn't have the time for it, plus that I can't loosen up my mind enough to go "oh...the street is a river! AND I AM TOM SAWYER!" You know? I would tell myself "this is bullshit".

So, brain drugs, as much as I've tried to have fun like so many others, I've just been annoyed by them. I have too many ideas, and too much to think about, I might as well be on Acid without actually taking it, with the way my imagination is.

So, I never had fun with those drugs. I like coke, heroin, alcohol, speed.... stuff like that.



-William
www.William-Mac.com

[baron von lotsov]

Yes but Ayahuasca, peyote, mushrooms are not drugs, they are medicines, and they are the exception. They should not be lumped into the catagory of LSD, ecstacy, crank, alcohol, which are all man-made. Like hemp, those medicines grow from the earth as a gift to humans, or more accurately they are there as an insurance that humanity doesn't loose connection with the spirit.



You have been brainwashed. I'm sorry but I can't help you since you wish to believe this. No amount of reason will change your mind. It's pure shit incidentally, especially saying "they are there as an insurance that humanity doesn't loose connection with the spirit" This is your belief. You are entitled to it. Don't bother asking me again, it's pointless, I'm not going to reinforce what you believe and I think this is where you are coming from, you want others to blindly agree to support this. You might find them; there is a whole industry devoted to this kind of thing. I believe Terrence McKenna has a lot to answer for or should that be MK Kenna?

[sensimillia]

Hah hah, whoops! I type my replies on here so fast. Yeah, you know, that's what everybody told me. The first time I did "LCD" (heh) I was alone. I'm a painter, so i thought I would do some cool drawings and paintings, and I put on some cool tunes. But... really, I was annoyed. The whole experience was just bothering me, it wasn't horrible, but it wasn't great, I just didn't have the time for it, plus that I can't loosen up my mind enough to go "oh...the street is a river! AND I AM TOM SAWYER!" You know? I would tell myself "this is bullshit".

So, brain drugs, as much as I've tried to have fun like so many others, I've just been annoyed by them. I have too many ideas, and too much to think about, I might as well be on Acid without actually taking it, with the way my imagination is.

So, I never had fun with those drugs. I like coke, heroin, alcohol, speed.... stuff like that.



-William
www.William-Mac.com

i understand. yes, heroin and e´s are great fun, but coke has never had any affect on me, only if i make crack out of it and smoke it. ahhh the good old days, nowdays i´m only smoking cannabis, but with an occasional trip once in a while.:)

[limelady]

I hope you're right. So where do you get your info?


I read a lot, observe a lot, and use my intuition a lot. I'm observing HEAPS of subtle change in the world, and there are hints all over the web of in-house Illuminati rifts and splits...subtle stuff, but its there....some more blatant like the recent Fulford revelations (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6777&highlight=Fulford)on Rense.

Even if the Fulford thing is not what it appears to be (probably not), this scenareo gives a good indication that things are doing a HUGE flip-flop....what was once hidden is starting to be revealed.....we are starting to get glimpses of the underbelly of the beast!

If you're interested, IMO a good place to start is by reading everything available fromThe Disclosure Project (http://www.disclosureproject.org) including the 500 page briefing document and witness testimony.

Then read Greers book (http://www.disclosureproject.org/hiddentruth.htm) Here he describes some of the 'insider' stuff going on behind the scenes. I didn't get much out of Greer's his personal experiences with ETs, but the other stuff is very worthwhile knowing about.

The onion layers are starting to fly off now, and its about time too! ;)

LL :)

[auron]

You have been brainwashed. I'm sorry but I can't help you since you wish to believe this. No amount of reason will change your mind. It's pure shit incidentally, especially saying "they are there as an insurance that humanity doesn't loose connection with the spirit" This is your belief. You are entitled to it. Don't bother asking me again, it's pointless, I'm not going to reinforce what you believe and I think this is where you are coming from, you want others to blindly agree to support this. You might find them; there is a whole industry devoted to this kind of thing. I believe Terrence McKenna has a lot to answer for or should that be MK Kenna?
Baron, you are here deliberately spreading dis-info. I know your game, you don't fool me. :D

[william_mac]

i understand. yes, heroin and e´s are great fun, but coke has never had any affect on me, only if i make crack out of it and smoke it. ahhh the good old days, nowdays i´m only smoking cannabis, but with an occasional trip once in a while.:)

Yeah, I never dug crack. The reason i smoke cigarettes, and drink is because I like the action of it. The action of holding a cigarette and inhaling and exhaling, the action of swirling a cube in a crystal glass. Cocaine was always it's own action. I would feel like I was doing the drug injustice if I were to smoke it. Snorting it seemed like a more reverent thing.

I know all that sounds strange, but it's true. It's the proverbial "lines on the mirror, lines on her face" mentality that attracted me to the drug. And I still do it sometimes because I like the action of it.

There is this new TV show here in America illustrating the people who created all of the advertisements back in the early 1960s called "Mad Men" from the same guy who did "The Sopranos". "Mad Men" is a term coined by the Wall Street Ad Men themsevles. Anyway, the main character had been in World War II and obtained a Purple Heart. Well, a man that was older than him came into his office for a meeting. The old man said the following, as the main character grabbed a drink: "Your generation drinks for all of the wrong reasons. You're always licking some imaginary wound. You're always so meloncholy. My generation drank for the right reasons. We drank because it was good. We drank instead of loosening our collars and taking off our ties. We drank... because that is what men do."

I feel the same about "vices" I believe that they are an art form. If there is anything worth doing, after all, it's worth doing right.



-William
www.William-Mac.com

[barbitone]

You have been brainwashed. I'm sorry but I can't help you since you wish to believe this. No amount of reason will change your mind. It's pure shit incidentally, especially saying "they are there as an insurance that humanity doesn't loose connection with the spirit" This is your belief. You are entitled to it. Don't bother asking me again, it's pointless, I'm not going to reinforce what you believe and I think this is where you are coming from, you want others to blindly agree to support this. You might find them; there is a whole industry devoted to this kind of thing. I believe Terrence McKenna has a lot to answer for or should that be MK Kenna?

You just crossed the line in my books. I can tolerate what you have to say somewhat but this.......not this.......all that's left to say to you my friend is "SUCK A FAT ONE BARON!". I'm so fucking sick of you're retarded bullshit!!:mad:

There.....I feel better. No one dis's Terrance 'the chiwawa man' McKenna.

[aelusis]

The means in which Psychedelic drugs are made available can never be stopped, because it would be stopping nature. Assuming you're not talking about these naturally occuring chemicals, like psilocibin and DMT, even the more complicated base compounds, like LSD, can be made from scratch with the proper know-how. In fact, in any large-scale LSD manufacturing operation the amount of ergotamine needed is so staggering there's no way of procuring it from a chemicals distributor, so obtaining the tainted rye in itself proves easier.

As to why LSD was made available to the public in such mass quantities during the 60's and 70's will remain up for debate long to come, and I have not yet come to a complete conclusion myself on this matter. It could have simply been to open the population up to greater possability only to have peace and love replaced by cocaine and KC & The Sunshine Band. Maybe it was an experiment in mass mind control on such a scale that it would have given Mengele wet dreams. Me, I think in all likelyhood it was about the birth of pop-culture as we know it today. The 'sexual revolution', shedding ourselves of the 'chains of conformity', resulted in Lindsay Lohan. Just a theory, I don't know.

And to whoever it was that said LSD's been proven to cause long-term damage in former users, you need to get you facts straight. The propaganda of 'flashbacks' has yet to produce a single case of it ever actually happening, so failing that I'm curious what else it is you could think it does. According to mainstream medicine, the ONLY adverse affect of taking LSD is that it will cause a premature onset of schizophrenia if the individual is already geneticaly predisposed to the illness. Hey, on a side note by sheer coincidence here, what is it that mainstream medicine usually does when someone has a massive explosion of their kundalini energy, opening their minds in incredible ways, gaining new abilities such as ESP? They get diagnosed with schizophrenia and are institutionalised because they see and percieve things the rest of the population doesn't. But really, I doubt the two are connected.:rolleyes:

[auron]

Your posts are fantastic mate! Keep em' comin!! :)

[phoebe]

You just crossed the line in my books. I can tolerate what you have to say somewhat but this.......not this.......all that's left to say to you my friend is "SUCK A FAT ONE BARON!". I'm so fucking sick of you're retarded bullshit!!:mad:

There.....I feel better. No one dis's Terrance 'the chiwawa man' McKenna.

The funny thing is
Is that Baron smokes pot.

[auron]

Hahaha!! The Baron smokes pot???? :D:D What with? Steroids??

[baron von lotsov]

The means in which Psychedelic drugs are made available can never be stopped, because it would be stopping nature. Assuming you're not talking about these naturally occuring chemicals, like psilocibin and DMT, even the more complicated base compounds, like LSD, can be made from scratch with the proper know-how. In fact, in any large-scale LSD manufacturing operation the amount of ergotamine needed is so staggering there's no way of procuring it from a chemicals distributor, so obtaining the tainted rye in itself proves easier.

As to why LSD was made available to the public in such mass quantities during the 60's and 70's will remain up for debate long to come, and I have not yet come to a complete conclusion myself on this matter. It could have simply been to open the population up to greater possability only to have peace and love replaced by cocaine and KC & The Sunshine Band. Maybe it was an experiment in mass mind control on such a scale that it would have given Mengele wet dreams. Me, I think in all likelyhood it was about the birth of pop-culture as we know it today. The 'sexual revolution', shedding ourselves of the 'chains of conformity', resulted in Lindsay Lohan. Just a theory, I don't know.

And to whoever it was that said LSD's been proven to cause long-term damage in former users, you need to get you facts straight. The propaganda of 'flashbacks' has yet to produce a single case of it ever actually happening, so failing that I'm curious what else it is you could think it does. According to mainstream medicine, the ONLY adverse affect of taking LSD is that it will cause a premature onset of schizophrenia if the individual is already geneticaly predisposed to the illness. Hey, on a side note by sheer coincidence here, what is it that mainstream medicine usually does when someone has a massive explosion of their kundalini energy, opening their minds in incredible ways, gaining new abilities such as ESP? They get diagnosed with schizophrenia and are institutionalised because they see and percieve things the rest of the population doesn't. But really, I doubt the two are connected.:rolleyes:

I don't read propaganda generally. Maybe a little but I'm nearly always aware it is what it is. My knowledge of LSD is from personal experience. What you say about the 60s essentially is that you don't know. That's good in a sense because you have spotted an inconsistency and you don't have an answer for it so you keep thinking rather than to reject the incongruity, like a papering over the cracks exercise.

Now there is a reason for the 60s and it started in the 1920s in Switzerland and then the Beatniks that Aldous Huxley put together during his involvement with British Intelligence as a pilot study in order to bring in the 60s. Leary was working for them and so was Ken Kesey. Keep looking 'man' and the answer will be forthcoming.

[cleft_asunder]

Hah hah, whoops! I type my replies on here so fast. Yeah, you know, that's what everybody told me. The first time I did "LCD" (heh) I was alone. I'm a painter, so i thought I would do some cool drawings and paintings, and I put on some cool tunes. But... really, I was annoyed. The whole experience was just bothering me, it wasn't horrible, but it wasn't great, I just didn't have the time for it, plus that I can't loosen up my mind enough to go "oh...the street is a river! AND I AM TOM SAWYER!" You know? I would tell myself "this is bullshit".

So, brain drugs, as much as I've tried to have fun like so many others, I've just been annoyed by them. I have too many ideas, and too much to think about, I might as well be on Acid without actually taking it, with the way my imagination is.

So, I never had fun with those drugs. I like coke, heroin, alcohol, speed.... stuff like that.



-William
www.William-Mac.com


Dude that shit fucks you up, get the hell off of it. And the reason you don't have success with brain-drugs is that you're trying to do em for fun--to escape reality instead of understanding it's nature. The purpose of Aya is to confront your negative and positive side, and to accept both, and to push asside the ego. It is a medicine for the physical body and soul. It's about changing yourself to something better.

[cleft_asunder]

You have been brainwashed. I'm sorry but I can't help you since you wish to believe this. No amount of reason will change your mind. It's pure shit incidentally, especially saying "they are there as an insurance that humanity doesn't loose connection with the spirit" This is your belief. You are entitled to it. Don't bother asking me again, it's pointless, I'm not going to reinforce what you believe and I think this is where you are coming from, you want others to blindly agree to support this. You might find them; there is a whole industry devoted to this kind of thing. I believe Terrence McKenna has a lot to answer for or should that be MK Kenna?

I already know the truth about those drugs, and they aren't sinister. But whatever.

[william_mac]

Dude that shit fucks you up, get the hell off of it. And the reason you don't have success with brain-drugs is that you're trying to do em for fun--to escape reality instead of understanding it's nature. The purpose of Aya is to confront your negative and positive side, and to accept both, and to push asside the ego. It is a medicine for the physical body and soul. It's about changing yourself to something better.


Yeah, but I don't need to change myself into something better. I'm completely content, I know what I want, how I'm going to get what I want, and why I want what I want. I'm just fine as a human being, I know a lot about the world around me, and I continue to learn. I mean, why waste time with a brain drug, for fun or leisure. It seems pretty silly to me.

As far as success with them goes, I just don't dig 'em, that's all. Different drugs for different people.

Cocaine is a really safe drug if snorted. 1.5 grams will kill the average human, but 1 gram will last all night for me and 1 or 2 other people. That's called being responsible. Heroin is the same, it's dangerous if injected, but if smoked or snorted there is virtually no way to overdose.



-William

[william_mac]

Originally Posted by cleft_asunder View Post
Dude that shit fucks you up, get the hell off of it. And the reason you don't have success with brain-drugs is that you're trying to do em for fun--to escape reality instead of understanding it's nature. The purpose of Aya is to confront your negative and positive side, and to accept both, and to push asside the ego. It is a medicine for the physical body and soul. It's about changing yourself to something better.

Also, confronting my negative and positive side is something I did a long time ago as a natural thing. I was about 16 when I started telling people that your negative nature is a part of you too, and to hide from it is to succomb to it. I told people that recognizing and accepting your negative self is to shed light in the darkness, and say "this is a part of me" and then it will usually just gradually dissipate the more you understand it's nature and that it is there, and that it is nothing to be ashamed of. I know the same about my positive. I didn't need a drug for that. That's easy to figure out, no one told me about it, I didn't read it in a book, and I didn't take a drug. I just did it.

The place where I am at now in my life is of perfection. Now I just have a job to do, and so i do it. From 14 years of age to about 18 or 19 was the years where I kept growing, and so I don't really have anything left to grow in. I just do my job.

I mean, I don't think people should try so hard. Like I said, I just figured it out by observing and considering things on my own.



-William

[intuition]

When you do you will understand how deep the rabbit hole goes, as Icke would say. Here is a clue to help you understand.

When you do mushrooms and acid regularly what tends to happen to your brain. If you wanted to organise a serious resistance to the well-organised authorities would it help or hinder your efforts if your entire army was tripping out?

Come on now, you just have to put your beliefs aside and think logically about this one.

Couldnt agree more.Basically it makes you fooking paranoid.I bet the nwo is shaking in fear- a bunch of druggys sitting around fuked out there faces who refuse to pay taxes- and i dont mean that being nasty , thats just how it comes accross.Id never take drugs or encourage anyone else too - that is the perfect way for society to become weaker not stronger.

[william_mac]

Right, go to http://www.erowid.orgright now!!!

Read up about your "really safe" drug. It causes heart problems, agresssion, mood swings, and others. Just because you don't suffer any side effects immidiately, don't assume there are none. There are.

Don't take my word for it, or the authorities, read erowid as they are non biased.:o

Before I've done any drug in my entire life I made sure to know everything about I actually could aside from the actual experience. Out of all of the research I've done, Cocaine and Heroin (if not injected) are safer than Pot.

You say it causes heart problems, but for a person with a fairly healthy heart, and who does not use it habitually (cocaine) then that person will experience no problems whatsoever. That's like saying taking a pill of Adderall or Ritalin will cause you heart problems. People do those things for years and are just fine. Cocaine is less detrimental than those two prescription drugs I just mentioned.

Heroin is a natural opiate. Pain killers that you get after a surgery, or a dental visit where they may pull out those pesky wisdom teeth are no different than Heroin.

Cocaine and Heroin, out of all of the extensive research that I've done, are the safest drugs if done moderately and wisely.

I'm not going to read the site. I've done enough research. Cocaine constricts the blood vessels, affects the respiratory system, causes the heart to beat faster and become out of sync with the brain, and shoves endorphins up in your brain and then blocks them from coming back down.

Cocaine does the least damage on your brain with moderate use because instead of flooding the brain with chemicals, it simply traps the chemicles and closes off the receptors, effectively leaving your receptors safe. In addition, like I said, any average healthy human being should experience no problems with moderate cocaine use, and should not have any physical ills afterward.

The same goes for brain drugs, even LSD. I just don't like them. Coke is very subtle, and so is Smack. Both are in the background somewhere of your brain and body, but you know they're there, and they're working. And they're fun party drugs, and very social like cigarettes, beer, and coffee...or a nice corner bar.

So, I'll trust my own research on this one. Now, I will admit that Coke has a bad rap, and people think it's really addictive. But... I've never experienced addiction with coke, or the innate need to do again, like one of those addict itches. Never once, and addiction runs in my family.

It's been.... let's see here, maybe 4 months since I last did coke. Sometimes I'll do it every weekend for a spell, sometimes twice a week, then sometimes I'll not feel like it and I'll leave it alone for months and months. Right now I'm too busy to go out and stand on the corner and score some blow, I've got too much shit to do, and I got kind of bored with it. Lately, however, I've felt like doing it again, so I will. But I've never experienced any problems.

It's all about responsibility. People who are snorting big fat lines one after the other are going to have problems. I would always do "bumps", I would snort small lines and wait up to 30 minutes before I did another. I would always encourage my friends to do the same, in order to make sure we were all being responsible, and since I was the one holding the coke most of the time I wouldn't let them take another line. It's easy to get out of control, but it's also easy to remain safe and responsible. And that is what makes a good drug user, that is what makes a drug user an innocent person.

There is nothing wrong with doing any kind of drug, but people have to know themselves. People have to know exactly what the drug does in a mental, a physical, a chemical, and a behavioral state before they even do it. In addition, first time users should always be with an experienced user in a safe and secure environment. That's just what makes drugs safe, enjoyable, and non-addictive.



-William
www.William-Mac.com

[deathstickboy]

HOLY SWEET FLYING FUCK BATMAN!!!

This has got to be the first time I've heard someon prasing the merits of Herion and Cocain over marijuana and other more powerful psychedelics.

LSD causes no damage at all. The only damaged caused my marijunana is due to smoking it. If you eat it, there is no harm done.

I think your research is fucked, but congradulations on having the will power to use the two most physically addictive illegal drugs without becoming a slave to them.

However I think you will find that among the general populace, herion and cocaine are by far the most destructive of illegal drugs, not to mention the oldest and most monoploized drugs controlled by the very people who have created out current demented modern culture though their control of mass media, education and law enforcement.

[william_mac]

I'm a big fan of ol' Hunter, especially as a journalist and history buff. So, I was thinking about this thread here today. And, I wanted to post up the three following clips from the movie "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas" which was a small book written by Hunter S. Thompson detailing one of his road trips to Las Vegas. In this movie Johnny Depp plays Hunter and Delahoya (sp?) plays Oscar Acosta (Oscar Acosta was a real life person, as was Hunter. In fact, Oscar was also a real life attorney, he won more cases for "brown" people in Californian history at that time. One day Oscar got on a boat, and never came back. The boat was never found, the body was never found, and no one knows what happened).

These clips here blur the line between fun and spirtual. And, as you will see, reptiles are the common occurance. Overall, though, they're funny. But, I think it will be a good conversation starter. I'll give a brief little sentence on each clip. (each clip is only about 2 minutes, except for one)

Fucking Reptile Zoo!
Hunter goes to check in at the Press table for the Mint 400 (a story he was supposed to cover for Rolling Stone Magazine in the early 1970s), but he is on acid. Suddenly, everyone in the room turns into reptiles "I was right in the middle of a fucking reptile zoo! And someone was giving booz to these goddamned animals".

On No! We Haven't Done Anything Yet!
Hunter checks into the Mint, but the lady behind the counter turns into a reptile/eel.

Maybe you could just...drop me in the pool, man
This is the longest clip (10 minutes) but it's funny as hell. Anyway, Hunter takes a "brain drug" and his attorney turns into a reptile like being, with slit eyes and horns, and begins dancing around to drum beats.

Where The Wave Rolled Back
The strange genious of Hunter S. Thompson, the random univesal knowledge of his words. If you don't want any of these clips, you need to watch this one, only because it's powerful.

[william_mac]

HOLY SWEET FLYING FUCK BATMAN!!!

This has got to be the first time I've heard someon prasing the merits of Herion and Cocain over marijuana and other more powerful psychedelics.

LSD causes no damage at all. The only damaged caused my marijunana is due to smoking it. If you eat it, there is no harm done.

I think your research is fucked, but congradulations on having the will power to use the two most physically addictive illegal drugs without becoming a slave to them.

However I think you will find that among the general populace, herion and cocaine are by far the most destructive of illegal drugs, not to mention the oldest and most monoploized drugs controlled by the very people who have created out current demented modern culture though their control of mass media, education and law enforcement.

Don't tell me my researched is fucked unless you go and do your own. Then, please, try to refute me. Make sure you do unbiased research and just get the facts. Not people who say "cocain is OK!" or people who say "cocaine is not OK!" just the facts. I'd be happy to learn more.

They are destructive because of their addictiveness. But, really, an addictive personality is going to do what an addictive personality does...get addicted to anything and everything, no matter what it may be.

However, again I'm going to stress that Cocaine and Heroin, if done moderately and responsibly are much less detrimental.

"brain" drugs, as I call them, don't do anything to you except for Ecstacy. However, Acid has been known to cause phsychosis, as have other brain drugs, when done habitually without allowing time to get back to "reality", so to speak.

Pot, no go, pal. Smoking is the worst part, because of resin in the lungs. But, pot causes memory loss, inability to think clearly, does damage to dopamene receptors and other things. However, the problem here is that people don't realize so they just do it all of the time without thinking, because the misconception is that it's completely safe. It really isn't, it causes more sudden effects, and can cause harmful long term effects (as can any drug or substance or...anything)

Cocaine and heroin, on the other hand, allow a person to remain fully operational while on the drug. They both do not do any kind of long term damage, even if used rather habitually.... say a gram a week of either one (if not injected). Those are the facts. Coke does to your respiratory system what a few cups of coffee or a cigarette does. But, it doesn't affect your lungs, or your stomach, or your brain (unless long term and habitual use is implemented, then phsychosis may set in, just like acid). So, to review, cocaine allows you to be fully operational even while taking it, it does nothing more to your respiratory system than a cup of coffee will do (raising blood pressure slightly, increasing heart rate, constricting vessals, and making the heart out of sync with the brain, and causing energy and a "high), it does not flood the brain with pleasure chemicals like dopamine (as does pot) and thusly does not damage receptors, instead coke traps the already arriving dopamine and does not allow it to descend or ascend any further (which causes the high) so the receptors are not damaged. In fact, the "crash" coke users experience is actually the renewed flow of those receptors, which causes extreme drowsieness.

Also, the leaves that the concentrated form of cocaine is taken from is chewed like most people would take coffee breaks by many South American natives. These leaves have the same effect as coffee in their original form, so the concentrated form is just like a quadrouple shot expresso, except it lasts for less amount of time (15 to 30 minutes). So, in conclusion, Coke is in no way dangerous, but just like coffee it is incredibly addictive. The only thing about Coke is that it has a really bad wrap.

When I first tried coke I thought I was in for something sooooo crazy, but I wasn't. I was like "what is the big deal?" and I tried all other drugs, but Coke was easy to do, it was not hard to handle, it did not make me feel sick or scared, and it did not make me dependent. So, for me, coke is the best drug, that and heroin, which like I said, is nothing more than an opiate. I mean, if you take something for your headache, that's an opiate. And snorting heroin ir smoking it is virutally impossible to OD off of, I mean almsot COMPLTELY impossible, it's incredibly rare. As far as shooting smack? Well, people can do that with over the counter drugs and get the same rush. All they have to do is crush up an opiate like Oxicodine, put it in the proverbial silver spoon, ad some water, cook it, suck it up, and inject it. If done properly, not by injection, it's just a numbing agent that really doesn't do much but relax you like a prescription pain killer would, except it has a different, more mellow and less chemical feel.

So, do the research. I have. And tell me if I'm wrong.

[auron]

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/5008/jointun9.gif

[monique]

A friend of mine was raided by the police a while ago on suspicion of selling bulk hash (which he ofcourse didn't :rolleyes:) but he got tipped of beforehand by some other guy so he was able to got rid of all of his stash in time.

Except for the 400 euros worth of DMT he considered to be holy and therefore did not want to remove from his house.

What happened was this : a police squat of 6 men stood in his livingroom threatening to get a search warrant if he did not allow them to search te premises, which they then did.
They found the DMT and shouted WHAT IS THIS?? to which my friend (utter spacehead) replied something like exploring cosmic divinity and trips to others realms of existence. That pretty much baffled them and they left, taking the DMT with them.

Low and behold a police officer came back a few days later, RETURNING the little plastic back of DMT to my friend.

Either: they had no clue whatsoever that DMT is a class 9 psychoactive drug
or: they didn't give a rat's ass because there's no market for DMT here in Amsterdam.

What do you think?

[supertzar]

I think the agenda behind LSD was to soften people up so they could be programmed more easily. Overall, being more receptive to sensory input equals more programmability. If you take care of your mind psychedelics are great, but if you watch too much tv and listen to music filled with subliminals and so on it could intensify the undesirable effects. I love psychedelics, but I can see how they were used to transform society into a more pliable version.

[whitelightrabbit]

Don't tell me my researched is fucked unless you go and do your own. Then, please, try to refute me. Make sure you do unbiased research and just get the facts. Not people who say "cocain is OK!" or people who say "cocaine is not OK!" just the facts. I'd be happy to learn more.

They are destructive because of their addictiveness. But, really, an addictive personality is going to do what an addictive personality does...get addicted to anything and everything, no matter what it may be.

However, again I'm going to stress that Cocaine and Heroin, if done moderately and responsibly are much less detrimental.

"brain" drugs, as I call them, don't do anything to you except for Ecstacy. However, Acid has been known to cause phsychosis, as have other brain drugs, when done habitually without allowing time to get back to "reality", so to speak.

Pot, no go, pal. Smoking is the worst part, because of resin in the lungs. But, pot causes memory loss, inability to think clearly, does damage to dopamene receptors and other things. However, the problem here is that people don't realize so they just do it all of the time without thinking, because the misconception is that it's completely safe. It really isn't, it causes more sudden effects, and can cause harmful long term effects (as can any drug or substance or...anything)

Cocaine and heroin, on the other hand, allow a person to remain fully operational while on the drug. They both do not do any kind of long term damage, even if used rather habitually.... say a gram a week of either one (if not injected). Those are the facts. Coke does to your respiratory system what a few cups of coffee or a cigarette does. But, it doesn't affect your lungs, or your stomach, or your brain (unless long term and habitual use is implemented, then phsychosis may set in, just like acid). So, to review, cocaine allows you to be fully operational even while taking it, it does nothing more to your respiratory system than a cup of coffee will do (raising blood pressure slightly, increasing heart rate, constricting vessals, and making the heart out of sync with the brain, and causing energy and a "high), it does not flood the brain with pleasure chemicals like dopamine (as does pot) and thusly does not damage receptors, instead coke traps the already arriving dopamine and does not allow it to descend or ascend any further (which causes the high) so the receptors are not damaged. In fact, the "crash" coke users experience is actually the renewed flow of those receptors, which causes extreme drowsieness.

Also, the leaves that the concentrated form of cocaine is taken from is chewed like most people would take coffee breaks by many South American natives. These leaves have the same effect as coffee in their original form, so the concentrated form is just like a quadrouple shot expresso, except it lasts for less amount of time (15 to 30 minutes). So, in conclusion, Coke is in no way dangerous, but just like coffee it is incredibly addictive. The only thing about Coke is that it has a really bad wrap.

When I first tried coke I thought I was in for something sooooo crazy, but I wasn't. I was like "what is the big deal?" and I tried all other drugs, but Coke was easy to do, it was not hard to handle, it did not make me feel sick or scared, and it did not make me dependent. So, for me, coke is the best drug, that and heroin, which like I said, is nothing more than an opiate. I mean, if you take something for your headache, that's an opiate. And snorting heroin ir smoking it is virutally impossible to OD off of, I mean almsot COMPLTELY impossible, it's incredibly rare. As far as shooting smack? Well, people can do that with over the counter drugs and get the same rush. All they have to do is crush up an opiate like Oxicodine, put it in the proverbial silver spoon, ad some water, cook it, suck it up, and inject it. If done properly, not by injection, it's just a numbing agent that really doesn't do much but relax you like a prescription pain killer would, except it has a different, more mellow and less chemical feel.

So, do the research. I have. And tell me if I'm wrong.

um... processed cocaine leaves HOLES in the brain. physical, irreversible damage, plainly seen on an MRI. i'm not talking about the natural form, that is a completely different story and hard to obtain in north america.

any damage you mention caused by marijuana is reversed by simply not taking it for a while. the lungs clean themselves out and the short term memory comes back. there is no lasting damage that anyone has found from marijuana use. people do smoke cocaine and heroin though and i'm sure that effects the respiratory system.

They are destructive because of their addictiveness. But, really, an addictive personality is going to do what an addictive personality does...get addicted to anything and everything, no matter what it may be.

this is exactly why cocaine and heroine are so dangerous. they ARE highly addictive and destructive if used regularly. an addictive personality might get addicted to things they try like coffee and marijuana and even jogging, so what? and they MIGHT even try cocaine if someone like you comes along and says 'no, it's good'. it might work for you, but for someone with an addictive personality it can be fatal.

btw no one gives hand jobs for a joint, or even a tab of LSD.

[supertzar]

But, pot causes memory loss, inability to think clearly, does damage to dopamene receptors and other things.

You haven't done any research. You don't even have any idea what you are talking about.

[whitelightrabbit]

I think the agenda behind LSD was to soften people up so they could be programmed more easily. Overall, being more receptive to sensory input equals more programmability. If you take care of your mind psychedelics are great, but if you watch too much tv and listen to music filled with subliminals and so on it could intensify the undesirable effects. I love psychedelics, but I can see how they were used to transform society into a more pliable version.



i disagree, tv, poor diet, and mainstream music works wonders on people(for programming). LSD makes people think outside the box. when i am on LSD the last thing i do is believe the tv, i laugh my head off at it, then turn it off and walk in the forest for hours. imo cocaine and alchohol are the drugs which help with mind control and keeping people marching along in their mundane jobs and life.

[supertzar]

Actually, I think you would agree if I explain further. It's all the time after the trip, after the mind has been opened, that they work on people. Look how quasi-psychedelic tv became starting in the late 60's. Look at the incredible production values of commercials nowadays. They capitalize on how turned on our minds are big time.

Realize I am not talking about you or me, but the overall effect on society. The drip, drip, drip of brainwashing acting on minds transformed by psychedelics is very powerful indeed.

[whitelightrabbit]

[QUOTE=supertzar;97764]Actually, I think you would agree if I explain further. It's all the time after the trip, after the mind has been opened, that they work on people. Look how quasi-psychedelic tv became starting in the late 60's. Look at the incredible production values of commercials nowadays. They capitalize on how turned on our minds are big time.

Realize I am not talking about you or me, but the overall effect on society. The drip, drip, drip of brainwashing acting on minds transformed by psychedelics is very powerful indeed.[/Q

they do the best they can to reach all people in whatever mind set they are in. but they do make certain drugs more available than others. good LSD is almost impossible to get these days. alchohol is on every corner, it takes effort to avoid even... cocaine is as easy as ever, and meth is a fucking epidemic.

[supertzar]

LSD in the sixties alone changed the collective mind forever.

[whitelightrabbit]

LSD in the sixties alone changed the collective mind forever.
true, seems to me a good thing?

[supertzar]

It's good that many have been able to de-condition themselves by tripping on acid, but it's not good that many more have enhanced susceptibility to being electronically brainwashed.

[william_mac]

I couln't have put it better.

Heroin blocks receptors in your brain, but hey, its safe, thats why so many scag heads resort to muggings and robberies to fund their filthy habbit.

Look, I am not having a debate on whether coke and Heroin are safe, because they are not. You sound like you are talking from experience though, and the one thing I know you will never get through to a user is the negatives of their habbit.

I've seen first hand what these drugs are capable of, after my cousin died of a kidney infection through smoking smack.

Your research is rubbish. Opium, in its natural state, is highly addictive, this only worsens when it is purified for global markets.

I'm appauled you are defending such a worthless drug. Muslims have a name for smack "Tears of Allah" and rightly so.

I've only snorted heroin twice, and nothing else. And you know what? It's just a fucking pain killer. That's it. The only major danger is injection or complete and utter addiction.

There are going to be crazy people out there fueling a habbit, but that can go for nearly any goddamn thing.

You're just going off of predjudice. In fact, heroin is not some big thing, it's barely anything. It's a numbing agent, it's an opiate, that is all. Zip. It's a simple drug, and it's not even a strong feeling, it's very subtle. So, it's really just teh same as an over-the-counter opiate or prescription opiate. But, you can take it as a pain killer, and operate just fine, and you don't have any of those...chemical type feelings, which is even better.

I mean, you're just going off of what kinds of fiends you've heard of. There are a lot of people who do heroin recreationally that I know, and they're not robbing people or loosing money. They're responsible, wealthy, hard-working, sensible human beings. There are tons of people that do it responsibly without injection. Injection is where the danger comes in of OD, of getting addicted quick and easy, and of turning into a smack fiend. Not snorting or smoking or taking it orally.




-William

[william_mac]

um... processed cocaine leaves HOLES in the brain. physical, irreversible damage, plainly seen on an MRI. i'm not talking about the natural form, that is a completely different story and hard to obtain in north america.

any damage you mention caused by marijuana is reversed by simply not taking it for a while. the lungs clean themselves out and the short term memory comes back. there is no lasting damage that anyone has found from marijuana use. people do smoke cocaine and heroin though and i'm sure that effects the respiratory system.



this is exactly why cocaine and heroine are so dangerous. they ARE highly addictive and destructive if used regularly. an addictive personality might get addicted to things they try like coffee and marijuana and even jogging, so what? and they MIGHT even try cocaine if someone like you comes along and says 'no, it's good'. it might work for you, but for someone with an addictive personality it can be fatal.

btw no one gives hand jobs for a joint, or even a tab of LSD.

Cocaine doesn't leave holes in your brain if you're a responsible user. The only time cocaine is going to leave holes in your brain and start eating away at nose cartilage is if you're shoving the shit up your nose every day, or nearly every day.

The last thing you said is very true. But these drugs are dangerous for those people, and it can be fatal for others, but people need to know that about themselves. However, not everyone is going to, and they're going to give the drugs a really bad wrap, which they have.

I've never had a addiction feeling for coke or heroin. I've done heroin twice, and I didn't really dig it because it was boring, so I've done coke a lot more. I never did more than 1 gram split between a couple of friends on the weekend while going out on the streets... it's certainly better than a Red Bull or one of those other crazy energy drinks. Anyway, and that's it.

I mean, I haven't even done coke in 4 months or so. But, I feel like I need to defend coke and heroin as drugs, because they're considered so taboo even to drug users. But, in reality, they really aren't when yo do the research, and have the experience.

Smoking cocaine causes major problems...so don't do it. The only smart way to take coke is orally or through snorting it. It won't cause damage to nose tissue or brain tissue unless you're really really really going at it for a looonnngg time.

Heroin can be smoked, and it won't cause any respiratory problems with moderate use becaues it's a downer. So, it's not going to heigten your respiratory and circulation system, it's going to relax it, open the vessels up, and create a numbing sensation. "Chasing The Dragon" as it's called, is one of the safest way to do heroin. I don't like smoking it, because I don't like adding that into my lungs. However, with heroin, and for people who are even very experienced with heroin, it's easy to OD and not even know that you are ODing. But smoking it and snorting it make this almost impossible to occur. I would recommend snorting it. Either way, shooting it is the big problem. People that shoot this orgasmic rush that startlingly only lasts about 15 seconds, and then the regular numbing comes on that you'll experience by snorting or smoking it. But the needle users want that 15 second "rush" that's what they live for...but after a while it becomes a need for your body. People will get sick if they don't have smack, so now they're just doing it to stay alive (in their mind). This rarely occurs for people who snort it, take it orally, or smoke it. Although, like I said I don't like the smoking part.



-William

[william_mac]

You haven't done any research. You don't even have any idea what you are talking about.

You've got to be kidding me. I've researched drugs, all kinds, in length. I'm talking books, medical journals, internet, actuall users, long-term and short-term effects.

I love how people always tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about, when in reality I'm probably more versed in the subject than they are, by both personal experience and extensive study.



-William

[john white]

You can't face upto the facts.

So your doing us a favour when you don't provide any, and just tell us to think just like you do becuase you say so?

[cleft_asunder]

Baron, you are here deliberately spreading dis-info. I know your game, you don't fool me. :D

I don't know all that much about Baron, other than he was part of the old Icke forum. He's entitled to his opinion, and I don't think he's spreading disinfo--he genuinly believes what he says. His problem is that he's like the religious types, getting angry at anything that deviates from his divine point of view.

[21_12_2012]

william_mac

I don't want to get into a debate about drugs here... i have too many bad memories about this subject, and 20 years of ex drug-use behind me....but what i will say is this:-

You've had heroin twice, yet feel you are qualified enough to make your statements about the 'safety' of it being smoked/snorted and of it not being the 'dangerous drug' that it's made out to be ?!

I've seen friends die because of heroin, and numerous lives messed up. Next to crack, it is the worst drug in the world.

I think you said you are 21 years old.

How the hell a 21 year old, after taking heroin twice, can say he knows about drugs (even after you have so-called read up on it extensively) is beyond me completely.

Even if you are older than 21...31 even or 41, having had heroin twice doesn't count for a thing where drugs are concerned...

You should visit my part of the world sometime, one look at the smack-heads where i live would be enough to put you off drugs for life my friend. They'd stab their own family for £10 these people.

Do yourself a favour... forget heroin and cocaine... it'll be the wisest decision you ever make my friend.

[cleft_asunder]

Don't tell me my researched is fucked unless you go and do your own. Then, please, try to refute me. Make sure you do unbiased research and just get the facts. Not people who say "cocain is OK!" or people who say "cocaine is not OK!" just the facts. I'd be happy to learn more.

They are destructive because of their addictiveness. But, really, an addictive personality is going to do what an addictive personality does...get addicted to anything and everything, no matter what it may be.

However, again I'm going to stress that Cocaine and Heroin, if done moderately and responsibly are much less detrimental.

"brain" drugs, as I call them, don't do anything to you except for Ecstacy. However, Acid has been known to cause phsychosis, as have other brain drugs, when done habitually without allowing time to get back to "reality", so to speak.

Pot, no go, pal. Smoking is the worst part, because of resin in the lungs. But, pot causes memory loss, inability to think clearly, does damage to dopamene receptors and other things. However, the problem here is that people don't realize so they just do it all of the time without thinking, because the misconception is that it's completely safe. It really isn't, it causes more sudden effects, and can cause harmful long term effects (as can any drug or substance or...anything)

Cocaine and heroin, on the other hand, allow a person to remain fully operational while on the drug. They both do not do any kind of long term damage, even if used rather habitually.... say a gram a week of either one (if not injected). Those are the facts. Coke does to your respiratory system what a few cups of coffee or a cigarette does. But, it doesn't affect your lungs, or your stomach, or your brain (unless long term and habitual use is implemented, then phsychosis may set in, just like acid). So, to review, cocaine allows you to be fully operational even while taking it, it does nothing more to your respiratory system than a cup of coffee will do (raising blood pressure slightly, increasing heart rate, constricting vessals, and making the heart out of sync with the brain, and causing energy and a "high), it does not flood the brain with pleasure chemicals like dopamine (as does pot) and thusly does not damage receptors, instead coke traps the already arriving dopamine and does not allow it to descend or ascend any further (which causes the high) so the receptors are not damaged. In fact, the "crash" coke users experience is actually the renewed flow of those receptors, which causes extreme drowsieness.

Also, the leaves that the concentrated form of cocaine is taken from is chewed like most people would take coffee breaks by many South American natives. These leaves have the same effect as coffee in their original form, so the concentrated form is just like a quadrouple shot expresso, except it lasts for less amount of time (15 to 30 minutes). So, in conclusion, Coke is in no way dangerous, but just like coffee it is incredibly addictive. The only thing about Coke is that it has a really bad wrap.

When I first tried coke I thought I was in for something sooooo crazy, but I wasn't. I was like "what is the big deal?" and I tried all other drugs, but Coke was easy to do, it was not hard to handle, it did not make me feel sick or scared, and it did not make me dependent. So, for me, coke is the best drug, that and heroin, which like I said, is nothing more than an opiate. I mean, if you take something for your headache, that's an opiate. And snorting heroin ir smoking it is virutally impossible to OD off of, I mean almsot COMPLTELY impossible, it's incredibly rare. As far as shooting smack? Well, people can do that with over the counter drugs and get the same rush. All they have to do is crush up an opiate like Oxicodine, put it in the proverbial silver spoon, ad some water, cook it, suck it up, and inject it. If done properly, not by injection, it's just a numbing agent that really doesn't do much but relax you like a prescription pain killer would, except it has a different, more mellow and less chemical feel.

So, do the research. I have. And tell me if I'm wrong.


I agree with you william, even about the cocain... well maybe. I mean there is a reason it's here on the earth, and therefore I'm sure it's meant to be used IN MODERATION. Also, I agree that pot is a fucked up drug. I used to smoke it every day, and ever since I found about about the Illuminati and how they control the pot, I know what the real story is: they want us to smoke it.

All that stuff about pot making you free and rebelious and a threat to the system is such bollocks. In moderation, it has it's purpose, but personally I think even once a week is too much. And I know from personal experience that it was fucking up my large intestine--I would get pains there right after I smoked. Ever since I stopped the pain has gone. This was when I was doing it once a week. Also, it has this quality about it which is hard to explain. The stuff you buy on the market just feels bad for the body.

[cleft_asunder]

Also, the leaves that the concentrated form of cocaine is taken from is chewed like most people would take coffee breaks by many South American natives. These leaves have the same effect as coffee in their original form, so the concentrated form is just like a quadrouple shot expresso, except it lasts for less amount of time (15 to 30 minutes). So, in conclusion, Coke is in no way dangerous, but just like coffee it is incredibly addictive. The only thing about Coke is that it has a really bad wrap.

That's not true. I know a Hungarian musician here in Reno that does coke, and he's been doing it for years. He's constantly talking about how coke has no side effects and doesn't fuck you up, the only problem is that it takes him 20 times longer to form a sentence. He can barely think anymore. And yes, all he does is coke.

In moderation it's probably safe, but once you do it daily or every other day, I don't think so.

[cleft_asunder]

You haven't done any research. You don't even have any idea what you are talking about.

Yeah he does. Stop rebelling against yourself and stop believe the mainstream disinfo. Socrates said that "The majority are always wrong." The Illuminati love booze and MJ on the market, and they love cashing on it of course to fund the NWO, undeground bases, et cetera.

[cleft_asunder]

i disagree, tv, poor diet, and mainstream music works wonders on people(for programming). LSD makes people think outside the box. when i am on LSD the last thing i do is believe the tv, i laugh my head off at it, then turn it off and walk in the forest for hours. imo cocaine and alchohol are the drugs which help with mind control and keeping people marching along in their mundane jobs and life.

Don't forget coffee and MJ. Coffee is never really taken seriously. I hate to say it but it's done damage to my mom's brain, and she believes she's completely normal. Isn't that always the case with addiction? She's drunk coffee every day for 25 years.

But for the common peope, coffee keeps them focused on the little picture--the trivial details. It makes them do mundane tasks without a gripe. But the big picture is lost.

[william_mac]

william_mac

I don't want to get into a debate about drugs here... i have too many bad memories about this subject, and 20 years of ex drug-use behind me....but what i will say is this:-

You've had heroin twice, yet feel you are qualified enough to make your statements about the 'safety' of it being smoked/snorted and of it not being the 'dangerous drug' that it's made out to be ?!

I've seen friends die because of heroin, and numerous lives messed up. Next to crack, it is the worst drug in the world.

I think you said you are 21 years old.

How the hell a 21 year old, after taking heroin twice, can say he knows about drugs (even after you have so-called read up on it extensively) is beyond me completely.

Even if you are older than 21...31 even or 41, having had heroin twice doesn't count for a thing where drugs are concerned...

You should visit my part of the world sometime, one look at the smack-heads where i live would be enough to put you off drugs for life my friend. They'd stab their own family for £10 these people.

Do yourself a favour... forget heroin and cocaine... it'll be the wisest decision you ever make my friend.

Look, I dropped out of school when I was 15 and spent 3 or 4 years traveling throughout the United States. I spent tons of my time in the slimy underbelly of life and with drug people. Heroin is not a particular preference of mine.

You say that I don't know about how bad heroin really is, especially since I've only taken it twice. But, isn't that the whole point? The fact that I have not taken it numerous times and have not become addicted to it is a good thing. The reason you're telling me how bad it is, is because of people who take it alllll the time. They aren't able to simply use it moderately.

I live in Atlanta, Georgia, and have lived in New Orleans and Savannah, Georgia. Atlanta is a major hub for crack, heroin, human sex trafficking, and other such black list operations. Savannah is a booming port town primarily owned by Italian and Latino Mafia, the drugs are sold by police, and the FBI aids in it. There are projects everywhere in Savannah, and I've seen it first hand.... I don't need to live where you live to know.

Don't even get my harping on New Orleans. New Orleans is one of the most drug afflicted cities on the planet. The entire image of New Orleans shows that.

And does this make me change my mind? Nope. If idiots are going to go out there and get addicted, then that's what they're going to do. That's it. It's not the drug that is causing the problem, it's the users not possesing any kind of discretion, and it's no one else's fault except for theres. I don't care what anybody else says.

So, just because I used heroin only twice because it is not my preference does not mean that I don't have authority on it. And to ensue that I can't have authoirty on it unless I've had more expereince is to ensue that perhaps I'm supposed to experience getting addicted to it so that I know how bat it is, and that is lunacy. Getting addicted to it and giving the drug a bad name is my whole argument. The drug is a good drug, it's not that harmful, but it is to people who want to get addicted to it... I say "want" because people do what they want, and people know when they're getting addicted, and it is they who choose whether to continue or to stop, or calm down.

People arguing against me on this fact seem to want to keep pointing out to me how many drug fiends there are out there in the world doing the drugs that I mentioned were safe IN MODERATION. But no one is telling me, if done in moderation, how these drugs are particularly harmful.

I mean, come on, your argument has no validity.



-William
www.William-Mac.com

[william_mac]

Here here!!!

In Salford, smack heads are rife, Heroin an crack have hlped tear a community apart. Mistrust is prominent and like the post above this one, your average scag head would dutifully shaft their own familly members for a bag, or a "jailey" - Heroin isn't big and isn't clever, for your own sake I hope you have the strength to stop taking it now before its too late.

If its not addictive, prove it to your self before you loose. Thinking you are in control is plenty enough warning to know that for you, and the way you talk about it, its too late.

I didn't know you'd only dabbled twice! You need to do whats best or you, and that aint chasin the dragon.

As an alternative, I suggest you try KRATOM. Its a seditive. None addictive, and safe. Try it once, might serve the craving in your life better than smack.

A friend.;)


Look, I don't dig heroin. I didn't like it, because it didn't do anything much at all. That's all it is is a mild sedative, unless injected.

However, I have gone through times of frequent (weekly) cocaine use, and have never experienced a problem. Not physicaly, not mentally, and not dependence wise.

I've never once thought "oh man... i need some coke!" And I've been doing coke for about 2 years now. But often times I will go 4 to 8 months without even thinking about it. It's only when I have the time, money, and ability to go out to a fun get-together or party that I will do it, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

It's called being strong-willed, and understanding the drug so that addiciton doesn't happen. So, I want to defend these drugs because of the bad reputation the've gotten dumbass addicts. These drugs are safe in moderation, and that is just a fucking FACT. There is no way to dispute that.

You're worried about people getting addicted. I wasn't worried about getting addicted because I own my flesh and my impulses. If I'm going to get addicted, it's going to be because I decided to. That is the same for everyone.

The fact is, you're either going to choose moderation, or you're going to wig out and snort, shoot, and swallow your way into oblivion. That's the fact of the matter.



-William

[william_mac]

That's not true. I know a Hungarian musician here in Reno that does coke, and he's been doing it for years. He's constantly talking about how coke has no side effects and doesn't fuck you up, the only problem is that it takes him 20 times longer to form a sentence. He can barely think anymore. And yes, all he does is coke.

In moderation it's probably safe, but once you do it daily or every other day, I don't think so.

Yeha, that's what I'm trying to say. Moderation. Shit, I rarely even drink coffee, doing that in moderation is important. I was trying to explain the effects it has.

I mean, I've seen people who have been drinking coffee daily throughout their lives shake like a heroin addict if they don't have it. Yet, it's accepted, so no one asks questions. It's a drug, and it does to your system almost exactly what cocaine does both in short term and long term effects. So, do it in moderation, like you said. Drinking one cup of coffee isn't going to hurt you, drinking a few cups of coffee per-week isn't going to hurt you. And neither will Coke. But making it an integral part of life is going to fuck you up. And that is with ANYTHING, foods, exorcise, everything.



-William

[cleft_asunder]

You know I hate to say it William, but I think the reason you're spending so much time defending coke and turning a discussion about psychadelics (aka mushroom, Aya) into a discussion about coke, is that you're addicted. The fact that "you're content with life" and don't care for "brain drugs" say it all.

Personally, I'll stay away from it. Many people who have done Ayahuasca saw the darkness in their soul; they saw their addiction to heroin and cocain, and were save by the medicine. So maybe you should try it. For some reason you don't seem to undrstand me when I say that Aya isn't about recreation, fun, and escapism. It's a medicine of the soul, and is very serious.

[21_12_2012]

Heroin is not a particular preference of mine.

But you said in the thread earlier that you don't like psychadelics, you prefer heroin and cocaine (your words)

You say that I don't know about how bad heroin really is, especially since I've only taken it twice. But, isn't that the whole point?

No, the point is that you're making out you know everything about it, and that you think you can control heroin use, when the cold hard fact is that heroin controls the user...it's physically addictive.

The fact that I have not taken it numerous times and have not become addicted to it is a good thing.

For how long though ?

The reason you're telling me how bad it is, is because of people who take it alllll the time. They aren't able to simply use it moderately.

No, the reason i am telling you how bad it is, is because it IS bad. It's not about being able to 'simply use it moderately'...heroin gets a grip...and it only takes a few times to get gripped.

And does this make me change my mind? Nope. If idiots are going to go out there and get addicted, then that's what they're going to do.

Actually, the 'idiots' you refer to were people like yourself (no disrespect) who thought they could control heroin, and take or leave it... this cannot be done..it gets a grip.

It's not the drug that is causing the problem, it's the users not possesing any kind of discretion, and it's no one else's fault except for theres.

Wrong. It's the drug that grips them...changes their whole way of thinking and living.

I don't care what anybody else says.

You should do.. it's valuable advise.

So, just because I used heroin only twice because it is not my preference does not mean that I don't have authority on it.

But you said "i prefer heroin and cocaine to psychoactive drugs" so it obviously is your preference.

The drug is a good drug, it's not that harmful, but it is to people who want to get addicted to it...

Please..do me a favour...

I say "want" because people do what they want, and people know when they're getting addicted, and it is they who choose whether to continue or to stop, or calm down.

Like i said..it gets a grip...and it controls the user..not the other way round.

People arguing against me on this fact seem to want to keep pointing out to me how many drug fiends there are out there in the world doing the drugs that I mentioned were safe IN MODERATION.

I've never met anybody who takes heroin in moderation... but i've met plenty who's lives revolve around scoring their next bag.

But no one is telling me, if done in moderation, how these drugs are particularly harmful.

As i said..there's no such thing as moderation with heroin...you're either an addict, or you don't take it...it's cut and dried.

I mean, come on, your argument has no validity.

Just type 'salford' with the word 'heroin' into any search engine, you'll see what heroins all about (in my area)

I'm not here to criticise you william_mac... I'm just offering advice..

I really don't want to even talk about this stuff, but, you seem like an intelligent guy... use your brains and stay away from smack.

Peace.

[aelusis]

Wow. A thread discussing the benefits of heroin and coke while condemning pot and psychoactives. If I were owned by a religion, you would be the antichrist, mac.

People don't overdose from smoking heroin? Hmmm....I was a junky for nearly 3 years of daily opiate usage, and guess what? I've never had a needle in me once, ever. An entire heroin habit in the lungs and up my nose, no exceptions, but I guess those 5 occasions where I found myself in a cold shower or pacing my room endlessly trying to force myself to stay awake were probably dreams. And one day I did wake up and say to myself, 'I would like to be a junky, today'. It was like a career choice, really. I even got some brochures ahead of time in preparation. It was great.
And even from my own extensive experience on this topic, I'm not claiming to be an authority on it. But the rebuttle of defending coke by claiming psychoactives cause psychosis is such a staggering demonstration of misinformation. Have you ever seen someone in the grips of cocaine psychosis? I doubt it, cause it's a sight that will haunt you the rest of your life, especially if you knew the person beforehand and you could see how 'sane' they were. I've also had the privilage of seeing crystal meth psychosis, and it's almost identicle, only slightly more prone to violence.

According to established medicine, extensively prolonged periods of psychoactive drug use can result in 'psychosis', but being as I've never seen this myself I can't lend any validity to it. And I've seen a lot of trippin' in my day, friend. I make reference to my last post, regarding the premature onset of schizophrenia and how it is supposedly caused my LSD, if the individual is genetically predisposed to the illness, and how so often schizophrenia is misdiagnosed after someone has had a massive kundalini energy explosion. But I doubt there's a connection, really.

There's a clinic in Vancouver (here in Canada) that uses ayahuasca to treat drug addiction, and it has the highest success rate than any other treatment program in the area. And keep in mind here, per capita, Vancouver is the most highly drug-addicted city in North America. It's the gateway of all hard drugs in America cause getting busted with a few keys of blow or smack in Canada will only put you away for 2-5 years as a first offence, versus a potential life sentence in certain states. So my backyard has a nice shit-river running through it, to say the least. But these ayahuasca clinics are privately run by people with money who want to do something good, cause it's of no surprise the Canadian government as well as the Canadian medical associate condemns these places as unproven and dangerous, despite the success rate. In fact, from my understanding, one of the largest of these clinics has been shut down since Marc Emery, the famous Canadian antiprohibitionist, was arrested as he was their main benefactor. I haven't had the privilage yet of doing ayahuasca so I can't comment if the introspection it gives oneself on problems like addiction is anymore powerful than LSD, but I imagine so. I know LSD was used in the same priniciples before the government shut down all reasearch into psychedelics back in the 60's, cause the only lab allowed to do these experiments (officially, at least) is only a few hours from where I live, in Yorkton SK.

I apologize for misspellings (I'm typing this in a rush) and if I seem overly sarcastic in this post at times, but trying to justify doing heroin (in moderation or not) by claiming you can't easily overdose if it's not injected, and that all addicts have made some conscious decision to do this to themselves is not only arrogant, it's flat out stupid my friend.

And on a side note regarding the booger-sugar, I know a fellow who's in his late forties now that has done coke 'in moderation' for nearly twenty years (a gram a month, and not a crumb over) who's having a nose job done next month cause there's no cartilage left and it's now become a medical neccesity. From my own little on-and-off habits I picked up to the stuff in past years, my sinuses are irreparably damaged and I always managed to stay in the shallow end of the addiction pool with that stuff.

I'm not trying to change you're mind on any of these issues, but what you read in medical texts is very different from the real thing when it happens to you, and I want to hear you singing this same song in ten or twenty years from now when your meager two dabblings with heroin can stack against a few thousand.

[cleft_asunder]

Wow. A thread discussing the benefits of heroin and coke while condemning pot and psychoactives. If I were owned by a religion, you would be the antichrist, mac.

People don't overdose from smoking heroin? Hmmm....I was a junky for nearly 3 years of daily opiate usage, and guess what? I've never had a needle in me once, ever. An entire heroin habit in the lungs and up my nose, no exceptions, but I guess those 5 occasions where I found myself in a cold shower or pacing my room endlessly trying to force myself to stay awake were probably dreams. And one day I did wake up and say to myself, 'I would like to be a junky, today'. It was like a career choice, really. I even got some brochures ahead of time in preparation. It was great.
And even from my own extensive experience on this topic, I'm not claiming to be an authority on it. But the rebuttle of defending coke by claiming psychoactives cause psychosis is such a staggering demonstration of misinformation. Have you ever seen someone in the grips of cocaine psychosis? I doubt it, cause it's a sight that will haunt you the rest of your life, especially if you knew the person beforehand and you could see how 'sane' they were. I've also had the privilage of seeing crystal meth psychosis, and it's almost identicle, only slightly more prone to violence.

According to established medicine, extensively prolonged periods of psychoactive drug use can result in 'psychosis', but being as I've never seen this myself I can't lend any validity to it. And I've seen a lot of trippin' in my day, friend. I make reference to my last post, regarding the premature onset of schizophrenia and how it is supposedly caused my LSD, if the individual is genetically predisposed to the illness, and how so often schizophrenia is misdiagnosed after someone has had a massive kundalini energy explosion. But I doubt there's a connection, really.

There's a clinic in Vancouver (here in Canada) that uses ayahuasca to treat drug addiction, and it has the highest success rate than any other treatment program in the area. And keep in mind here, per capita, Vancouver is the most highly drug-addicted city in North America. It's the gateway of all hard drugs in America cause getting busted with a few keys of blow or smack in Canada will only put you away for 2-5 years as a first offence, versus a potential life sentence in certain states. So my backyard has a nice shit-river running through it, to say the least. But these ayahuasca clinics are privately run by people with money who want to do something good, cause it's of no surprise the Canadian government as well as the Canadian medical associate condemns these places as unproven and dangerous, despite the success rate. In fact, from my understanding, one of the largest of these clinics has been shut down since Marc Emery, the famous Canadian antiprohibitionist, was arrested as he was their main benefactor. I haven't had the privilage yet of doing ayahuasca so I can't comment if the introspection it gives oneself on problems like addiction is anymore powerful than LSD, but I imagine so. I know LSD was used in the same priniciples before the government shut down all reasearch into psychedelics back in the 60's, cause the only lab allowed to do these experiments (officially, at least) is only a few hours from where I live, in Yorkton SK.

I apologize for misspellings (I'm typing this in a rush) and if I seem overly sarcastic in this post at times, but trying to justify doing heroin (in moderation or not) by claiming you can't easily overdose if it's not injected, and that all addicts have made some conscious decision to do this to themselves is not only arrogant, it's flat out stupid my friend.

And on a side note regarding the booger-sugar, I know a fellow who's in his late forties now that has done coke 'in moderation' for nearly twenty years (a gram a month, and not a crumb over) who's having a nose job done next month cause there's no cartilage left and it's now become a medical neccesity. From my own little on-and-off habits I picked up to the stuff in past years, my sinuses are irreparably damaged and I always managed to stay in the shallow end of the addiction pool with that stuff.

I'm not trying to change you're mind on any of these issues, but what you read in medical texts is very different from the real thing when it happens to you, and I want to hear you singing this same song in ten or twenty years from now when your meager two dabblings with heroin can stack against a few thousand.


Fantastic post. Wouldn't it be accurate to say that the medical texts are biased towards convincing readers that it's safe to do? In other words, the medical industry is controlled by the Illuminati, so would it be accurate to say that the texts are in a sense their disinformation?

Also, what you said about Vancouver is mind-blowing.

[william_mac]

You know I hate to say it William, but I think the reason you're spending so much time defending coke and turning a discussion about psychadelics (aka mushroom, Aya) into a discussion about coke, is that you're addicted. The fact that "you're content with life" and don't care for "brain drugs" say it all.

Personally, I'll stay away from it. Many people who have done Ayahuasca saw the darkness in their soul; they saw their addiction to heroin and cocain, and were save by the medicine. So maybe you should try it. For some reason you don't seem to undrstand me when I say that Aya isn't about recreation, fun, and escapism. It's a medicine of the soul, and is very serious.

This discussion began when I expressed my personal dislike towards phsycadelic drugs, and then explained my own personal drugs of choice.

I was then issued several responses that were along the lines that "cocaine and heroin" are the worst drugs, dangerous, that I should get off them... etc. I then began responding according to my research that Coke and Heroine were indeed not as dangerous as people believed if done in moderation.

Throughout this thread I have simply been replying to people since that beginning post. To say that I am addicted to these substances is an un-educated response. I've already explained that I rarely do drugs now. I explained several times that the last time I used cocaine was about 4 months ago, and I'll tell you now that I have not used any kind of drug since then, because I'm busy.

The reason I am speaking so often about it on this thread, is in order to debunk the people who have simple predjudeces towards the two drugs mentioned, and I'm attempting to illustrate the facts. Also, I am responding to comments made towards myself and my views concerning the comments made.

When someone tells me that one drug is better, or less dangerous than another, then it is my personal impulse to react to such a thing with another side of the view. Drugs are all good, and drugs are all bad. If any kind of substance is partaken of in moderation, then there is very little damage that the drug will do to the person, if any at all. I am trying to explain that Coke and Heroin are the same.

Now, when someone tells me that I am wrong for enjoying Coke moreover than some other drug, then I think I have a perfectly reasonable basis for defending myself. So, I explained that Coke is not a dangerous drug, or any better or worse than the ones originally mentioned on this thread.

To say that I am addicted, lord help me, makes me incredibly angry. So, I'm trying to be as civil as I can in this response. But to call someone who is a rare to moderate drug user (the situations of which fluctuate with situations presented) such as myself is incredibly far fetched, especially when I have already illustrated that I am not, in anyway, a constant user.

Moreover, I think it makes me sad. I think that a statement like that, from a person that has read my responses and understands that I do not take drugs regularly or at all for months upon a time, and who also does not no me personally, is an offensive and heartbreaking statement to say the least.

In addition, I'm one of the most hardworking and caring people you will ever meet. And to work so hard, without sleep, and as a labor of love, and to be alledged as an addict is disheartening. I set out to debunk the views of so many people who believe that somehow other drugs are better or less addictive or less detrimental in constant or moderate use than another, namely cocaine and heroin in this string of discussions.

Please don't insult me by insinuating that I would even perhaps be an addict. I am not solely defending the drugs themselves, I am trying to make people realize that it is a false impression to consider one substance safer than another. I wanted to show, after i was approached with such an allegation, that cocaine and heroin are just as 'safe' as MJ and "brain drugs". I also pointed out, at the beginning, that coke and heroin in my opinion, and through my research and experience, have no immediate brain altering effects or damage upon the user such as MJ or brain drugs. I began, once again, by explaining why I disliked mind altering drugs and MJ because they immediately thrust me into a mind altered state, that i did not care to be in. Then, upon people telling me that coke and heroin were very bad, I went on to explain that, no they aren't.

They have no immediate mind altering effects, and if used moderately they do not cause long-term health problems in average healthy individuals. So, the string of responses on my behalf that have ensued, please understand, are responses in which I simply continue to explain myself and my views.



-William
www.William-Mac.com

[william_mac]

But you said in the thread earlier that you don't like psychadelics, you prefer heroin and cocaine (your words)



No, the point is that you're making out you know everything about it, and that you think you can control heroin use, when the cold hard fact is that heroin controls the user...it's physically addictive.



For how long though ?



No, the reason i am telling you how bad it is, is because it IS bad. It's not about being able to 'simply use it moderately'...heroin gets a grip...and it only takes a few times to get gripped.



Actually, the 'idiots' you refer to were people like yourself (no disrespect) who thought they could control heroin, and take or leave it... this cannot be done..it gets a grip.



Wrong. It's the drug that grips them...changes their whole way of thinking and living.



You should do.. it's valuable advise.



But you said "i prefer heroin and cocaine to psychoactive drugs" so it obviously is your preference.



Please..do me a favour...



Like i said..it gets a grip...and it controls the user..not the other way round.



I've never met anybody who takes heroin in moderation... but i've met plenty who's lives revolve around scoring their next bag.



As i said..there's no such thing as moderation with heroin...you're either an addict, or you don't take it...it's cut and dried.



Just type 'salford' with the word 'heroin' into any search engine, you'll see what heroins all about (in my area)

I'm not here to criticise you william_mac... I'm just offering advice..

I really don't want to even talk about this stuff, but, you seem like an intelligent guy... use your brains and stay away from smack.

Peace.


If I can do heroin twice, and not do it since, and not even feel the need to, then it was my choice. The drug didn't take a hold of me, nothing takes a hold of me. That debunks most of what you stated. I understand you're a civil person, so I'm not trying to be angry. However, if a drug is going "take control of a person" then that person allowed the drug to take control.

I did heroin, and I liked it alright, but it wasn't that great, I didn't see the point in spending money on it. If it's around, I'm sure I may do it again, and I sure as hell won't be addicted to it. I don't NEED anything. I'm too driven, ambitious, and idealistic to allow something like a substance to get in my way.

The main reason why people use drugs in the first place is pre-meditated. Despite what people say about peer pressure, the fact is that people usually know when drugs are going to be around, and what drugs are going to be around. I knew, and i researched the drugs before I did them. I also made sure I was safe. I also made sure I was strong.

I'm not afraid of doing smack again, I know I won't inject it because I am afraid that I will get addicted. However, out of the research I've done, snorting it has a very rare addiction rate or OD rate. So, I'm stepping away from something I believe would make me addicted, and I will not hesitate to do Heroin again if it's around... but I wouldn't seek it out, it's too much money and it's not as fun or as social as coke. But, I'm not going to stay away from it.

So, yes, I stated that cocaine and heroin are my more favorite drugs... that's because those two drugs, out of all of the ones I've done, are the only ones I'd like to do again, or would consider doing again. So, coke and heroin are two drugs that I will most likely partake of in the future. However, coke is the only one I think I would set out to buy.

So, in my opinion, heroin or coke, or any drug for that matter, does not take control of a person. Control can only be implemented if control is accepted. I hear people all of the time tell me that I'm going to get addicted, but I've never had a problem with it. I had my rock n' roll, party lifestyle, reckless phase when I did drugs a whole hell of a lot. But, I'm been there done that, and I relish the experience, but it's not something I feel like doing again. Yet, here I am, not addicted. Coke is something that I like, and if I ever have the time soon to take a trip somewhere with a few friends and have a weekend with no responsibilities, then I will go and get coke and I will do it. And, I'm not going to be addicted.

Never in my life have I blamed a situation or another person for my problems or actions, and that will certainly not happen with a drug. If I get addicted to a drug, it will because I decided to. However, I don't decide to, and therefore I've never had the slightest problem overcoming possible addiction. In fact, the question has never arisen. Also, I have a wonderful support base of friends, and family, all of whom I am completely open to. So, if they begin worrying about me, then I have accountability on their part, to where they will warn me. It's all about being safe, knowing yourself, knowing the facts, and having an actual job to do in life to where you mostly don't have time to even think about drugs.



-William
www.William-Mac.com

[cheeb]

You talk a lot of sense about drugs,
In an unhumble opinion of mine,
Once you get off your head on any drug,
be it,
speed, asid,coke, blow, or smack,
It is pretty much the same place,
It's all plant derivative anyway,
I cant be bothered with drugs,now,
but fairplay to those that do,
It can open the mind a bit,
or make you a skitz,
Whichever way you go,
you would have gone down that path anyway,
Drugs just accelerated it.

Peace.

[william_mac]

You talk a lot of sense about drugs,
In an unhumble opinion of mine,
Once you get off your head on any drug,
be it,
speed, asid,coke, blow, or smack,
It is pretty much the same place,
It's all plant derivative anyway,
I cant be bothered with drugs,now,
but fairplay to those that do,
It can open the mind a bit,
or make you a skitz,
Whichever way you go,
you would have gone down that path anyway,
Drugs just accelerated it.

Peace.

Yeah! Exactly. I've never seen the big deal about drugs. Like, people get addicted and I never understood that or what seperates the addictive people from those who don't get addicted. And, I also hear people say all of the time that drugs are going to help them in awareness, or that drugs are going to make a particular situation perfect.... but I never thought that about drugs.

Hell, I did drugs for the experience, just to say I did it. Well, I did it. I'm finished, been there done that. But, I still do drugs occasionally, and I don't to them because I need them, or in order to make a situation better, or in order to experience some amazing thing. I mean, fuck, it's just a goddamn drug, what is it going to do that is so amazing or so completely horrible.

Shit, drugs are just drugs. They're fun to do sometimes, but they aren't going to make you think something amazing or whatever. I mean, I don't know, people tell me that doing brain drugs or spoking pot or something really helps them be artistic or relaxed. But, I'm already artistic, I'm already relaxed. I'm a daydreamer, a painter, a writer, and I make money doing those things. So, doing those drugs just freak me out, I mean... all the stuff people tell me that they think about when on those drugs are things I think about all of the time. So, coke was my favorite because it was a welcomed boost of energy, and an upper and sort of chatty. Never, though, have I considered doing drugs some kind of tool... they're just fun to do sometimes, like I said, and everybody has their preference.

Now that I think about it, though. Most of my friends that really dig LSD, shrooms, and pot are like the most intellectually minded technical type people I know. Like, the ones that are really good at math, science, aerodynamics, engineering, and shit. Hell, my friend from Georgia Tech, we call him Tall Matt, he is an aerospace engineer and has to do these crazy like 8-foot long equations and shit, which look like chicken scratch to me, and he does acid, and smokes pot all of the time because it "makes him more creative" and helps him "realize things". He also reads philosophy.

But, I absolutely hate philosophy because all of the things those famous philosophers are talking about are things I figured out on my own a long time ago. And, I'm already creative and relaxed, so I don't like the brain drugs. But, I think I just made the connection, I'm over here wishing that I could do all of the shit that Tall Matt does like know about science and shit, which are things I have to try 90% harder to understand than others, and he is over there trying to be a painter/writer/day dreaming thinker like I am. I never realized that, all of our conversations are based around me trying to figure out what he knows, and him trying to figure out what I know. Very strange.



-William

[auron]

These spliff skins look cool! I will have to seek them out... :D

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/5651/close2ma8.jpg

[soglad]

These spliff skins look cool! I will have to seek them out... :D

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/5651/close2ma8.jpg

Erm, isn't that plastic? Ah well, there's already enough plastic in soap bar so fuck it!

hehe

[auron]

I was only made aware of them the other day after seeing them on another forum. I need to find out more.

Here is wikipedia's toke on them:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clear_rolling_papers

This place sells them:

http://www.roll-ups.co.uk/ishop/879/shopscr4412.html

[cleft_asunder]

Jee wiz, let me just accomplish nothing by smoking a spliff. You know I get high all the time too; high on life. It's like a constant high, and I don't have to pay for it, and my body loves it.

What a trivial drug MJ is. Okay, for certain people with problems, sure, but other than that, I've never seen anyone accoplish anything significant with pot. At least with Aya and shit, you reconnect with your spirit.

You're a loser if you smoke pot past the age of 25.

[auron]

You're a loser if you smoke pot past the age of 25.
Try telling that to IAAIA :D

[cleft_asunder]

Try telling that to IAAIA :D

Who's that?

[auron]

I Am All I Am. A forum regular.

[aelusis]

Pot doesn't give any spiritual growth really, it's benefits are more confined within this reality. What pot does is allow people to disconnect from the matrix by simply not taking it so seriously. As Bill Hicks ingeniously put it,

"pot makes you realize that all the things you used to do when you were sober, just aren't worth the fuckin effort. 'Sure, I can get up at dawn and go to a job that doesn't inspire me creatively, for the rest of my life, or I can learn how to play the citar'. "

If you're disconnected enough from the matrix that you won't give a shit if, say, a watermain breaks and you lose a lot of material possesions that took you a long time and a lot of money to get, then you don't need pot. The same goes for little things too, like simply geting stressed in a traffic jam. I can admit that I am still of this reality enough that if a fire destroyed all my possesions, I would be considerably devastated. So instead of freaking out though, I would sit down, light a joint, and watch my whole fuckin house burn down and laugh if there was nothing I could do about it, cause it's all bullshit.

Thats just my 2 cents on weed, anyway.

[auron]

Hahaha!!! That's the spirit!! Nice! :D

[william_mac]

Pot doesn't give any spiritual growth really, it's benefits are more confined within this reality. What pot does is allow people to disconnect from the matrix by simply not taking it so seriously. As Bill Hicks ingeniously put it,

"pot makes you realize that all the things you used to do when you were sober, just aren't worth the fuckin effort. 'Sure, I can get up at dawn and go to a job that doesn't inspire me creatively, for the rest of my life, or I can learn how to play the citar'. "

If you're disconnected enough from the matrix that you won't give a shit if, say, a watermain breaks and you lose a lot of material possesions that took you a long time and a lot of money to get, then you don't need pot. The same goes for little things too, like simply geting stressed in a traffic jam. I can admit that I am still of this reality enough that if a fire destroyed all my possesions, I would be considerably devastated. So instead of freaking out though, I would sit down, light a joint, and watch my whole fuckin house burn down and laugh if there was nothing I could do about it, cause it's all bullshit.

Thats just my 2 cents on weed, anyway.


That is one of the most constructive things that I've read in this thread. Kudos... fucking kudos. Very nice.



-William
www.William-Mac.com

[william_mac]

Jee wiz, let me just accomplish nothing by smoking a spliff. You know I get high all the time too; high on life. It's like a constant high, and I don't have to pay for it, and my body loves it.

What a trivial drug MJ is. Okay, for certain people with problems, sure, but other than that, I've never seen anyone accoplish anything significant with pot. At least with Aya and shit, you reconnect with your spirit.

You're a loser if you smoke pot past the age of 25.

As I originally wanted to contribute in this forum yesterday, concering the Fear and Loathing In Las Vegas clips, Hunter S. Thompson said something to the effect "There are many people out there that think they can get as high on life as they can with drugs, but my attorney has never believed, and neither have I for that matter".

MJ isn't good for me, but there are people who cut my hair nice, fix my car, fix my electrics, drive the buses, and do a number of other things who smoke pot on a regular basis. I'm able to drink habitually and operate normally, and there are people who can smoke pot and do the same. I can't smoke pot and act normal and carry on, but there are those who can.

I can't really form an opinion on the habitual use of pot either way, it seems to be fine for some in the short and long term, and for others it seems to be detrimental. Either way, I think people know themselves well enough, for the most part, and for those pot heads out there... well, if you're doing alright, then keep at it. You know?

Hell, I've been known to get "high off of life", but drugs certainly make it more interesting, hah. I think that is the allure of drugs, for me, is that it just makes life so fucking strange and weird, that it's like a big adventure. That's why I dig Hunter S. Thompson and the Beat writers so much.



-William
www.William-Mac.com

[william_mac]

Wow. A thread discussing the benefits of heroin and coke while condemning pot and psychoactives. If I were owned by a religion, you would be the antichrist, mac.

People don't overdose from smoking heroin? Hmmm....I was a junky for nearly 3 years of daily opiate usage, and guess what? I've never had a needle in me once, ever. An entire heroin habit in the lungs and up my nose, no exceptions, but I guess those 5 occasions where I found myself in a cold shower or pacing my room endlessly trying to force myself to stay awake were probably dreams. And one day I did wake up and say to myself, 'I would like to be a junky, today'. It was like a career choice, really. I even got some brochures ahead of time in preparation. It was great.
And even from my own extensive experience on this topic, I'm not claiming to be an authority on it. But the rebuttle of defending coke by claiming psychoactives cause psychosis is such a staggering demonstration of misinformation. Have you ever seen someone in the grips of cocaine psychosis? I doubt it, cause it's a sight that will haunt you the rest of your life, especially if you knew the person beforehand and you could see how 'sane' they were. I've also had the privilage of seeing crystal meth psychosis, and it's almost identicle, only slightly more prone to violence.

According to established medicine, extensively prolonged periods of psychoactive drug use can result in 'psychosis', but being as I've never seen this myself I can't lend any validity to it. And I've seen a lot of trippin' in my day, friend. I make reference to my last post, regarding the premature onset of schizophrenia and how it is supposedly caused my LSD, if the individual is genetically predisposed to the illness, and how so often schizophrenia is misdiagnosed after someone has had a massive kundalini energy explosion. But I doubt there's a connection, really.

There's a clinic in Vancouver (here in Canada) that uses ayahuasca to treat drug addiction, and it has the highest success rate than any other treatment program in the area. And keep in mind here, per capita, Vancouver is the most highly drug-addicted city in North America. It's the gateway of all hard drugs in America cause getting busted with a few keys of blow or smack in Canada will only put you away for 2-5 years as a first offence, versus a potential life sentence in certain states. So my backyard has a nice shit-river running through it, to say the least. But these ayahuasca clinics are privately run by people with money who want to do something good, cause it's of no surprise the Canadian government as well as the Canadian medical associate condemns these places as unproven and dangerous, despite the success rate. In fact, from my understanding, one of the largest of these clinics has been shut down since Marc Emery, the famous Canadian antiprohibitionist, was arrested as he was their main benefactor. I haven't had the privilage yet of doing ayahuasca so I can't comment if the introspection it gives oneself on problems like addiction is anymore powerful than LSD, but I imagine so. I know LSD was used in the same priniciples before the government shut down all reasearch into psychedelics back in the 60's, cause the only lab allowed to do these experiments (officially, at least) is only a few hours from where I live, in Yorkton SK.

I apologize for misspellings (I'm typing this in a rush) and if I seem overly sarcastic in this post at times, but trying to justify doing heroin (in moderation or not) by claiming you can't easily overdose if it's not injected, and that all addicts have made some conscious decision to do this to themselves is not only arrogant, it's flat out stupid my friend.

And on a side note regarding the booger-sugar, I know a fellow who's in his late forties now that has done coke 'in moderation' for nearly twenty years (a gram a month, and not a crumb over) who's having a nose job done next month cause there's no cartilage left and it's now become a medical neccesity. From my own little on-and-off habits I picked up to the stuff in past years, my sinuses are irreparably damaged and I always managed to stay in the shallow end of the addiction pool with that stuff.

I'm not trying to change you're mind on any of these issues, but what you read in medical texts is very different from the real thing when it happens to you, and I want to hear you singing this same song in ten or twenty years from now when your meager two dabblings with heroin can stack against a few thousand.

But you said you were a junky. That's what I'm saying. MODERATION. Christ, why does everybody just ignore what I keep repeating. Moderation, and it's safe.

Also, I said that LSD and other "brain drugs" as I call them are incredibly safe, and don't do much to you physically. And, I even pointed out that extended habitual use causes phsychosis. I also pointed out that Cocaine does the same thing. I mean... come on. I said all of that.

As far as smoking heroin or snorthing, the fucking facts are that, no, it is virtually impossible to overdose. Just do the research and refute me. If you can.

And, doing a gram a month for 20 years will probably fuck your nose up. Common sense. If you're having problems that you can relate back to use of coke...then, uh, don't do it anymore. Simple as that.

I'm not saying one drug is better or worse than the other. OK? I'm saying that they're all bad with abuse, and they're all OK in moderation. Those are the FACTS.

Everyone keeps telling me about all of these addicts that they know, but no one is doing the research and citing examples. I've done the research, it isn't just medical. It's second hand, first hand, and medical on both sides of the support spectrum (those who support it and those who don't). I mean, when i say I know something, it's because I fucking know. I don't form opinions about things that I do not know, it's a personal motto of mine.

However, I HAVE done the research, and I've done the research extensively in all aspects and in all spectrums. So, if you want to argue, just give me a solid example.

The examples you provided were of, again like everyone else who has argued with me on this thread, addicts or people you know that have suffered problems. Well, if someone is suffering problems then they should stop.

I go months and months without doing coke, so I'm not going to get sinus or nose cartilage problems. If I do start seeing problems, then I simply won't do it again. It's just common sense.



-William

[supertzar]

What good is a drug if you can't do it for fear of getting addicted? No comparison between death drugs and pot/psychedelics.

Oh, and "Cleft" (word for vulva.) I think it's hilarious you call pot smokers losers when you are biggest loser in your part of the state. What is wrong with you? Maybe alcohol fucked up your brain.

[cleft_asunder]

Oh, and "Cleft" (word for vulva.) I think it's hilarious you call pot smokers losers when you are biggest loser in your part of the state. What is wrong with you? Maybe alcohol fucked up your brain.

I doubt you would know, since I've never met you before.

[supertzar]

I got you mixed up with someone who made a similar comment. Anyway, it's lame as shit to say that.

[whitenight639]

Yeah, same type of store, except maybe smaller. What do you do with Aloe juice anyway?

You drink it or use it for your skin, an alchemist told me its packed with natural ormus, it dosnt taste nice but it makes me feel better, more awake in the day even with less sleep, able to concentrate better etc (it could be placebo but if its helping who cares!). I read that some ormus/ monatomics are actually gold chloride and can be damaging so i went the natural way, what has supprised me is holland and barrat seem to be getting busier and busier in my town, i hope it is because people are waking up, not just to nwo but to the fact that there food is either killing them or nurishing them, no inbetween.

[cleft_asunder]

You drink it or use it for your skin, an alchemist told me its packed with natural ormus, it dosnt taste nice but it makes me feel better, more awake in the day even with less sleep, able to concentrate better etc (it could be placebo but if its helping who cares!). I read that some ormus/ monatomics are actually gold chloride and can be damaging so i went the natural way, what has supprised me is holland and barrat seem to be getting busier and busier in my town, i hope it is because people are waking up, not just to nwo but to the fact that there food is either killing them or nurishing them, no inbetween.

I'll have to try some

[william_mac]

You drink it or use it for your skin, an alchemist told me its packed with natural ormus, it dosnt taste nice but it makes me feel better, more awake in the day even with less sleep, able to concentrate better etc (it could be placebo but if its helping who cares!). I read that some ormus/ monatomics are actually gold chloride and can be damaging so i went the natural way, what has supprised me is holland and barrat seem to be getting busier and busier in my town, i hope it is because people are waking up, not just to nwo but to the fact that there food is either killing them or nurishing them, no inbetween.


We have always grown Aloe plants. It's good for sunburns and all sorts of skin stuff, and for breathing in. But... drinking it? I don't know.

The goo liquid that comes out of the plants look scary to drink.



-William

[william_mac]

I got you mixed up with someone who made a similar comment. Anyway, it's lame as shit to say that.


Man, that's fuckin' crazy. That's just as insane as the following conversation:

You: "you're a monkey, and you drink all of the time"

Other Person: "No i'm not, how do you know? You've only just met me, that's not true"

You: "Oh, look at you, you goddamned drunken monkey man, you're defending yourself with facts and pointing out that I do not eve know you. Now you're lame as shit."

I mean, yeah, it's totally lame as shit when someone points out an obvious fact like....GASP, the fact that you don't know them.

Come on... really. That is just.... silly ridiculous.



-William
www.William-Mac.com

[supertzar]

I thought it was obvious that I was referring to Cleft's comment about pot smokers over 25 being losers. The "anyway" should have pointed you in that direction.

[whitenight639]

Well said!! Thats why Farmfoods can't give their poison away!!! (Since when has Pizza and Deep Fry Chips been a farm food anyway?)

Since when has Pizza and Deep Fry Chips been a food anyway? :rolleyes:

:)

[whitenight639]

We have always grown Aloe plants. It's good for sunburns and all sorts of skin stuff, and for breathing in. But... drinking it? I don't know.

The goo liquid that comes out of the plants look scary to drink.



-William

im sure i read somewhere it has poisonous stuff in that is taken out, so i wouldnt advice drinking it straight from the plant! its cold pressed somehow. but it is drank in japan, mexico etc, it has anti cancer properties too check out Aloe vera - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[eternal_spirit]

Jee wiz, let me just accomplish nothing by smoking a spliff. You know I get high all the time too; high on life. It's like a constant high, and I don't have to pay for it, and my body loves it.

What a trivial drug MJ is. Okay, for certain people with problems, sure, but other than that, I've never seen anyone accoplish anything significant with pot. At least with Aya and shit, you reconnect with your spirit.

You're a loser if you smoke pot past the age of 25.
.................................

LOl high on life good for you. MJ trivial Bigger LOL, if that's what you believe fine. To me It's the only natural herbal high substance worth doing, depends what you do while you're doing it too, interests and personality types,etc etc.

How would you know aya connects you to spirit, is it because you read that in a book and on the Internet? Or have you taken it before? What ever the effects of aya are may just be a drug induced experience and nothing to do with connecting to spirit. All in the mind:)The imagination, or hallucenation.

You don't like potheads much then lol. What about other drugs after 25 does that mean they're all losers too?

[eternal_spirit]

im sure i read somewhere it has poisonous stuff in that is taken out, so i wouldnt advice drinking it straight from the plant! its cold pressed somehow. but it is drank in japan, mexico etc, it has anti cancer properties too check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloe_vera

You can eat the juice raw, I used to eat it off my own plants, it's good for intestinal problems ( stomach etc ) Eat too much in one go and you'll be running the toilet all night! But hey if you need a laxative it's good. Not sure but think it's the outside, skin that can make you ill.

[eternal_spirit]

Psychoactive properties

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e0/Basket_of_Amanita_muscaria.png/180px-Basket_of_Amanita_muscaria.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Basket_of_Amanita_muscaria.png) http://en.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/magnify-clip.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Basket_of_Amanita_muscaria.png)
A basket of A. muscaria.(Fly Agaric)



In contrast to hallucinogenic mushrooms of the Psilocybe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, Amanita muscaria is rarely consumed recreationally.[47] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amanita_muscaria#_note-27) It is Controlled Substances Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia in the United States. Any sales of A. muscaria for human ingestion are regulated by the FDA. Most other countries do not have laws against the use of A. muscaria, as it is currently legal and un-controlled under UN international law. However, following the outlawing of Psilocybin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia containing mushrooms in the UK, an increased quantity of Amanita mushrooms began to be sold and consumed.[48] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amanita_muscaria#_note-28)
The active ingredient is excreted in the Urine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia of those consuming the mushrooms, and it has sometimes been the practice for a Shamanism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia to consume the mushrooms, and the rest of the Tribe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia to drink his urine: the shaman, in effect, partially detoxifying the drug (the sweat- and twitch-causing muscarine is absent in the urine).[49] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amanita_muscaria#_note-Soma68) This was also not an uncommon practice in Siberia, where the poor would consume the urine of the wealthy, who could afford to buy the mushrooms.[49] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amanita_muscaria#_note-Soma68) If a fly agaric is eaten, it is usually not fresh, but in its dried or cooked form, where ibotenic acid is converted to the more stable and far less poisonous muscimol.

read more here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amanita_muscaria#Psychoactive_properties

[kblood]

If drugs like Ayahuasca and mushrooms were really a threat to the Illuminati, then why are the ingredients needed to make/grow them on the market? Why do places like Amsterdam exist? You can get bnisteriopsis caapi, chakruna, syrian rue, mimosa, mushrooms spores all legally in the U.S. They are sold for "scientific purposes" only, yet there's no mystery as to what people do with them.

I don't get it.

Maybe the Illuminati arent exactly evil... just powermongers that might want world control because they see it as theirs for the taking. They dont fear us using drugs, because they probably dont need to use drungs themselves to enter the states that we might need drugs to enter. All drugs are to be used with great care though.

[lifeofbrian]

If drugs like Ayahuasca and mushrooms were really a threat to the Illuminati, then why are the ingredients needed to make/grow them on the market? Why do places like Amsterdam exist? You can get bnisteriopsis caapi, chakruna, syrian rue, mimosa, mushrooms spores all legally in the U.S. They are sold for "scientific purposes" only, yet there's no mystery as to what people do with them.

I don't get it.

They are aware psychedelic drugs do nothing for the soul or spirit.

Only the physical, emotional and mental bodies.

They are laughing.

[soglad]

They are aware psychedelic drugs do nothing for the soul or spirit.

Only the physical, emotional and mental bodies.

They are laughing.

Thank you, O shining light of ultimate truth.

Have you even tried these drugs?

[eternal_spirit]

Okay, it's all about vibrational compatibility. Good trip bad trip? If you are confident, positive, happy etc (your state of mind) this will raise you're concious vibration to higher frequencies, beyond the range of the lower 4th dimension(Lower astral planes what ever you wan't to call it ) I've seen and sensed scarey stuff tripping alone in a negative mindstate, it's not recommended, but this can show you what's in you're subconcious and is the other side of the coin.

It can be like being in a dream(nightmare) I think when you are on this bad wavelength is when you become vunerable to attack, either by shadow beings negative entities etc, or brainwave frequencies, subliminals , psychotronic warefare etc.(brotherhood weapons)



The best trips are when you're happy or with people who are good friends that you feel comfortable with whilst tripping. This makes for a much more pleasant experience. This is you're chance to glimpse, experience higher levels of conciousness, angels etc. Or a reflection of you're own subconcious projecting positive visions etc.

After a large dose, just don't expect to be able to think in straight lines, with clear logic, it's just a temporary thing and clarity of thought can be enhanced at other times during the trip.