I have apathy.

[cleft_asunder]

Does anyone else have this? This describes me perfectly.

John McManamy argues that although psychiatrists do not explicitly deal with the condition of apathy, it is a psychological problem for some depressed people, in which they get a sense that "nothing matters", the "lack of will to go on and the inability to care about the consequences". [4] He describes depressed people who "...cannot seem to make [themselves] do anything", who "can't complete anything", and who do not "feel any excitement about seeing loved ones". [4] He acknowledges that the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders does not discuss apathy. In a Journal of Neuropsychiatry and Clinical Neurosciences article from 1991, Dr Robert Marin MD claimed that apathy occurs due to brain damage or neuropsychiatric illnesses such as Alzheimer’s, dementia, Parkinson's, or Huntington’s, or else an event such as a stroke. Marin argues that apathy should be regarded as a syndrome or illness. [5] A review article by Robert van Reekum MD et al. from the University of Toronto in the Journal of Neuropsychiatry (2005) claimed that "depression and apathy were a package deal" in some populations.

Dr Marin and other neuropsychiatrists perceive apathy in the context of brain damage rather than as a sign of emotional distress or cognitive impairment. They see apathy as the result of neuropsychiatric illnesses such as Alzheimer’s, dementia, Parkinson's, or Huntington’s, or else an event such as a stroke, involving disruptions to frontal-subcortical pathways that are fueled by dopamine and acetylcholine

http://www.mcmanweb.com/apathy.html

So does anyone know how to increase dopamine to that part of the brain?

[cruise4]

Fixing the problem not treating the symptom, is the answer. The world is a loony bin. It's not you.

[shaivite]

.



“It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.”

- J. Krishnamurti





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[curtaincat]

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“It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.”

- J. Krishnamurti





.

unfortunately, that is too true..:(

[cleft_asunder]

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“It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.”

- J. Krishnamurti





.

I agree with that but there are so many good things left in the world. Not everything is sick. For example, I would like to work and start a family like a normal person, but then I just crash from the idea every time, and I'm left bathing n my own apathy again. I wish I had stability. It's the mercury poisoning I have that causes me to be this way. I am chelating again, but God I'm sick of this shit because I want permanent progress. Every time I do DMSA chelation, I am a normal person at the end, but then a new wave of internal mercury comes out. Cilantro tea has been a big help as it chelates mercury.

[krakhead]

http://wordsaboutthings.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/pasty.jpg

I have a pasty.... :)

Again, sorry :o

[michael christopher]

I used to have this quite badly. Now I can cry by simply staring at a beautiful sunset, so I'd say it's gone.

I get very emotional randomly all the time now... my personality has done a 180. I wish I could tell you what I did, but I just started to search for meaning where before I thought there was none, and the more and more I looked, the more and more meaning I found.

I must say that I'm at a point now where I can tell you with absolute authority that I personally know that everything matters, much more than can even be believed. There are signs everywhere. God speaks to you in every second of your life, be it from your heart or be it from the clouds in the sky, or the stars, or even the numbers on your clock. God can speak to you through your dreams, through your random scribblings. You can pick up a book, see where your eyes go and read, that is God speaking to you. If you are lost, and in need of direction, there are directions all around you as long as you are willing to open yourself up to them and go with them. Look for synchronicities. The more you find, then you will begin to find even more faster and faster.
'
It's wonderful! Everything is a metaphor, be it physical or energetic, and all metaphors overlap.

[cafetimes1991]

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1207/533174588_92727e04cf.jpg?v=0

I feel pretty apathetic sometimes.

[motleyhoo]

I think everyone who is aware of what is really going on gets this way, and I have it a lot these days. The more I understand how big a scam the 40 hour work week is, and how it is just corporate enslavement to enrich the pockets of a few, the more I don't even want to work anymore. I find the best way to beat this feeling is by taking up a hobby that shows me something beautiful, like photography, cycling on my bike, going to art museums, or looking through a telescope at the heavens above.

Unfortunately, one of the worst things you can do is read these forums and listen to Alex Jones or whatnot. It's a catch-22.

Good luck, bro.

.

[pegcityevolve]

I just smoke some cannabis, you get to be apathetic and just laugh at it. So it's all good. :D

[cleft_asunder]

I used to have this quite badly. Now I can cry by simply staring at a beautiful sunset, so I'd say it's gone.

I get very emotional randomly all the time now... my personality has done a 180. I wish I could tell you what I did, but I just started to search for meaning where before I thought there was none, and the more and more I looked, the more and more meaning I found.

I must say that I'm at a point now where I can tell you with absolute authority that I personally know that everything matters, much more than can even be believed. There are signs everywhere. God speaks to you in every second of your life, be it from your heart or be it from the clouds in the sky, or the stars, or even the numbers on your clock. God can speak to you through your dreams, through your random scribblings. You can pick up a book, see where your eyes go and read, that is God speaking to you. If you are lost, and in need of direction, there are directions all around you as long as you are willing to open yourself up to them and go with them. Look for synchronicities. The more you find, then you will begin to find even more faster and faster.
'
It's wonderful! Everything is a metaphor, be it physical or energetic, and all metaphors overlap.

I agree with you and this stuff is nothing new to me, but that doesn't change the fact that I am indifferent towards it. But there's nothing you can do about it, so nevermind.

[cleft_asunder]

I think everyone who is aware of what is really going on gets this way, and I have it a lot these days. The more I understand how big a scam the 40 hour work week is, and how it is just corporate enslavement to enrich the pockets of a few, the more I don't even want to work anymore. I find the best way to beat this feeling is by taking up a hobby that shows me something beautiful, like photography, cycling on my bike, going to art museums, or looking through a telescope at the heavens above.

Unfortunately, one of the worst things you can do is read these forums and listen to Alex Jones or whatnot. It's a catch-22.

Good luck, bro.

.

Yeah but you don't understand apathy then. I went to gunsmithing school for 3 years. It was a 2 year program and after being in it 3 years, I'm still short 2 classes, and my grades are bad. I would ditch a whole week at once out of apathy. Each week was a new class and I didn't even bother to withdraw from the class to get my money back, that's how bad it was. Before I started the program, I was enthusiastic about it. After 3 weeks into the program, my enthusiasm had vanished, replaced by indifference and sluggishness. So your solution to find something I like doesn't apply to me, because I no longer like what I like.

[motleyhoo]

Yeah but you don't understand apathy then. I went to gunsmithing school for 3 years. It was a 2 year program and after being in it 3 years, I'm still short 2 classes, and my grades are bad. I would ditch a whole week at once out of apathy. Each week was a new class and I didn't even bother to withdraw from the class to get my money back, that's how bad it was. Before I started the program, I was enthusiastic about it. After 3 weeks into the program, my enthusiasm had vanished, replaced by indifference and sluggishness. So your solution to find something I like doesn't apply to me, because I no longer like what I like.

Dude, it took me 13 years to finally successfully get my college degree! I think i understand. Your problem does seem to be worse than mine was, and if I were you I would do some research into mood enhancing herbs, like St. Johns Wort (there are many others). You just need a little help to get your mojo back.

.

[cleft_asunder]

Any way, thanks for the help. I already know what the solution is, I was just wondering if others were like that. If you've read Steppenwolf, you know what the only solutions is: Liberation, which is the transcendence of the ego. Easier said than done when you have such a heavy ego like mine.

Peace.

[deafbred]

forerunner is LIVE

http://firstamendmentradio.com/listen.html


u can find him on youtube, forerunner

http://www.youtube.com/user/TheForerunner777

bye 4 now

[deetox]

Any way, thanks for the help. I already know what the solution is, I was just wondering if others were like that. If you've read Steppenwolf, you know what the only solutions is: Liberation, which is the transcendence of the ego. Easier said than done when you have such a heavy ego like mine.

Peace.

You probably know this already but try to practice meditation, unselfish action, unselfish speech, and unselfish thoughts. These will purify the mind and help dissolve the ego.

[cleft_asunder]

You probably know this already but try to practice meditation, unselfish action, unselfish speech, and unselfish thoughts. These will purify the mind and help dissolve the ego.

Yes, but I prefer to just cut to the chase and sit in silence and not think which is pure meditation. It's the only thing that has a deep impact on me, since I overpower my mind. From that springs all the other things you mention, But deeply I feel a renunciation towards everything, including action, so it's not like I aim to embrace the universe as my goal. Rather, I would prefer it if either I would go into a deep depression like Eckhart Tolle --a depression so deep it led to his ego death, or surrender my ego fully to God through meditation. I can get to that point where I am completely desireless and peaceful, but --and yes I know I contradict myself, but it's a paradox-- my desire for liberation at that point must be as strong as a drowning man wants air.

Too much talk makes Cleft an angry and insane boy.

Peace.

[kurupted_flesh]

You probably know this already but try to practice meditation, unselfish action, unselfish speech, and unselfish thoughts. These will purify the mind and help dissolve the ego.

All of that is bollocks.

Everything You do is selfish.

[lizzy]

You probably know this already but try to practice meditation, unselfish action, unselfish speech, and unselfish thoughts. These will purify the mind and help dissolve the ego.

hi deetox , you have posted some really helpful info in other threads that I have enjoyed reading v much. Thankyou.;)

[deetox]

Yes, but I prefer to just cut to the chase and sit in silence and not think which is pure meditation. It's the only thing that has a deep impact on me, since I overpower my mind. From that springs all the other things you mention, But deeply I feel a renunciation towards everything, including action, so it's not like I aim to embrace the universe as my goal. Rather, I would prefer it if either I would go into a deep depression like Eckhart Tolle --a depression so deep it led to his ego death, or surrender my ego fully to God through meditation. I can get to that point where I am completely desireless and peaceful, but --and yes I know I contradict myself, but it's a paradox-- my desire for liberation at that point must be as strong as a drowning man wants air.

Too much talk makes Cleft an angry and insane boy.

Peace.

Well all I can suggest then is to keep at it, the more you meditate the more benefit you will get from it.

[deetox]

All of that is bollocks.

Everything You do is selfish.

How do you figure that? Being unselfish (service to others) is one of the keys to achieving enlightenment. We are all capable of it.

[deetox]

hi deetox , you have posted some really helpful info in other threads that I have enjoyed reading v much. Thankyou.;)

You're very welcome. :)

[kurupted_flesh]

How do you figure that? Being unselfish (service to others) is one of the keys to achieving enlightenment. We are all capable of it.

Everything You do is motivated by the desire for Yourself to feel better in one way or another - no matter how you dress it up, or how "selfless" it may initially seem. All to do with the pleasure/ pain mechanisms in your brain, my friend.

Anyhow - how would you have any knowledge of what it takes to become "enlightened", unless you were at the point yourself? And if you were, you'd hardly be posting on a David Icke forum - would you?

[cleft_asunder]

Everything You do is motivated by the desire for Yourself to feel better in one way or another - no matter how you dress it up, or how "selfless" it may initially seem. All to do with the pleasure/ pain mechanisms in your brain, my friend.

Anyhow - how would you have any knowledge of what it takes to become "enlightened", unless you were at the point yourself? And if you were, you'd hardly be posting on a David Icke forum - would you?

This is probably one of the biggest reasons why I can hate people so bitterly, yet I am no exception. Funny how we can see the ego of others so clearly, but not in ourselves. If there is an ego, there is selfishness. Therefore the only real way and the best way to help the world is to transcend the ego. A realised hermit living in the wilderness in silence does far more to help the world than those who do charity. All other effort is a waste of time say the Saints.

And regarding your second paragraph, the only way to identify a realised man is by the peace he gives off. His character and actions are not proof of anything.

[kurupted_flesh]

If there is an ego, there is selfishness. Therefore the only real way and the best way to help the world is to transcend the ego. A realised hermit living in the wilderness in silence does far more to help the world than those who do charity. All other effort is a waste of time say the Saints.

Very myopic way of looking at it.

IMO, the ego is like a vessel that's necessary for consciousness to express itself in 3D. Without any egoic-function whatsoever, you wouldn't have the desire to do anything at all, as the concept of you wouldn't exist. So you'd probably waste away in your own juices.

It has a purpose - otherwise we wouldn't have it (think survival and natural desires - food, sex etc).

Though I'm hardly promoting the virtues of blind-egosim to the inconsideration of collective humanity, and ultimately oneself (akin to society today) - the ideal ego should be flexible IMO, adjusting to the circumstance, or as Bruce Lee would say, "like water".

...Attempting to totally "transcend" the ego may drive you crazy (http://paradise-engineering.com/brain/index.htm), my friend!

Side Note: Try some MDMA.

[revolutionary_jam]

Check out Brain State Technologies on google, if you can afford it it might really help you and change your life.

[armoured_amazon]

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1207/533174588_92727e04cf.jpg?v=0

I feel pretty apathetic sometimes.

Me too. :o

[cleft_asunder]

Very myopic way of looking at it.

IMO, the ego is like a vessel that's necessary for consciousness to express itself in 3D. Without any egoic-function whatsoever, you wouldn't have the desire to do anything at all, as the concept of you wouldn't exist. So you'd probably waste away in your own juices.

It has a purpose - otherwise we wouldn't have it (think survival and natural desires - food, sex etc).

Though I'm hardly promoting the virtues of blind-egosim to the inconsideration of collective humanity, and ultimately oneself (akin to society today) - the ideal ego should be flexible IMO, adjusting to the circumstance, or as Bruce Lee would say, "like water".

...Attempting to totally "transcend" the ego may drive you crazy (http://paradise-engineering.com/brain/index.htm), my friend!

Side Note: Try some MDMA.

Living with the ego is hell and the ultimate burden. It is the ego itself that is madness.

So you'd probably waste away in your own juices.

I thought I was reading Kalil Ghibran for a second there. :rolleyes:

[lemonique]

Hi Cleft, How is your self esteem?? It may have some bearing on the apathy you experience. Just a thought.

Lem

[shankara]

Maybe you have to ask yourself why apathy is something to "get over." Why judge it as good or bad? We are so used to looking at situations and putting labels and judgments on them which aren't necessarily true. It can be difficult to look at the world through any other lens. I've found that when I'm not feeling particularly happy, that unhappiness or apathy or whatever will naturally ease soon enough if I just accept it, don't dwell on it, don't claim it as part of me and focus on something else.

Your apathy is. It is neither bad nor good unless you decide it is. Why resist it? You have 2 choices, either accept what it or resist it. Neither of these 2 choices will change what is, but one will give peace (and yes, liberation!) while one will give only frustration and endless seeking. The fact that you are trying to change something, release something, or obtain something you don't already have with the idea that you won't be happy unless you do, is the very thing keeping you from the liberation that you seek. Stop seeking and see what's already here. Reject enlightenment and embrace your ego. If you knew how to be enlightened you would be so. Give up the responsibility of figuring it out and accept what is, even the existence of the ego. Accept unconditionally the ego and your own 'unenlightenment'. As crazy as it sounds that is the only way to liberation.

[cleft_asunder]

Maybe you have to ask yourself why apathy is something to "get over." Why judge it as good or bad? We are so used to looking at situations and putting labels and judgments on them which aren't necessarily true. It can be difficult to look at the world through any other lens. I've found that when I'm not feeling particularly happy, that unhappiness or apathy or whatever will naturally ease soon enough if I just accept it, don't dwell on it, don't claim it as part of me and focus on something else.

Your apathy is. It is neither bad nor good unless you decide it is. Why resist it? You have 2 choices, either accept what it or resist it. Neither of these 2 choices will change what is, but one will give peace (and yes, liberation!) while one will give only frustration and endless seeking. The fact that you are trying to change something, release something, or obtain something you don't already have with the idea that you won't be happy unless you do, is the very thing keeping you from the liberation that you seek. Stop seeking and see what's already here. Reject enlightenment and embrace your ego. If you knew how to be enlightened you would be so. Give up the responsibility of figuring it out and accept what is, even the existence of the ego. Accept unconditionally the ego and your own 'unenlightenment'. As crazy as it sounds that is the only way to liberation.

The truth is that when I'm spiritually minded, I like my apathy because it represents my renunciation of the world --my seeing through the world so to speak. My apathy only gives me trouble when I start desiring worldy things because I can't attain them due to lack of effort. But I understand what you're saying and you're right.

[revolutionary_jam]

How do you figure that? Being unselfish (service to others) is one of the keys to achieving enlightenment. We are all capable of it.

yeah but you serve others out of a selfish desire to serve :P
you have a more cultivated and sophisticated taste in selfishness that people who serve themselves

[enga]

Does anyone else have this? This describes me perfectly.

John McManamy argues that although psychiatrists do not explicitly deal with the condition of apathy, it is a psychological problem for some depressed people, in which they get a sense that "nothing matters", the "lack of will to go on and the inability to care about the consequences". [4] He describes depressed people who "...cannot seem to make [themselves] do anything", who "can't complete anything", and who do not "feel any excitement about seeing loved ones". [4] He acknowledges that the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders does not discuss apathy. In a Journal of Neuropsychiatry and Clinical Neurosciences article from 1991, Dr Robert Marin MD claimed that apathy occurs due to brain damage or neuropsychiatric illnesses such as Alzheimer’s, dementia, Parkinson's, or Huntington’s, or else an event such as a stroke. Marin argues that apathy should be regarded as a syndrome or illness. [5] A review article by Robert van Reekum MD et al. from the University of Toronto in the Journal of Neuropsychiatry (2005) claimed that "depression and apathy were a package deal" in some populations.

Dr Marin and other neuropsychiatrists perceive apathy in the context of brain damage rather than as a sign of emotional distress or cognitive impairment. They see apathy as the result of neuropsychiatric illnesses such as Alzheimer’s, dementia, Parkinson's, or Huntington’s, or else an event such as a stroke, involving disruptions to frontal-subcortical pathways that are fueled by dopamine and acetylcholine

http://www.mcmanweb.com/apathy.html

So does anyone know how to increase dopamine to that part of the brain?

First off....love Planescape Torment...brilliant RPG.
The best way to increase it is exercise that changes the body and brain chemistry or removing the stress factor causing the depression and imbalance. I speak from experience.
Getting someone who feels apathetic or depressed to exercise can be no mean feat though. If you can get them out walking 2-3 times a week for 30-60 minutes works wonders. I don't know about it being caused by physical damage to the brain, this is plausible but in many cases it is stress and chemically oriented.

edit..
I didn't realise you were apathetic yourself. I guess it depends on how much that is a problem for you.

[cleft_asunder]

First off....love Planescape Torment...brilliant RPG.
The best way to increase it is exercise that changes the body and brain chemistry or removing the stress factor causing the depression and imbalance. I speak from experience.
Getting someone who feels apathetic or depressed to exercise can be no mean feat though. If you can get them out walking 2-3 times a week for 30-60 minutes works wonders. I don't know about it being caused by physical damage to the brain, this is plausible but in many cases it is stress and chemically oriented.

edit..
I didn't realise you were apathetic yourself. I guess it depends on how much that is a problem for you.

Well you're right, but add diet along with exercise. I simply wasn't eating enough raw vegetables. Now I am almost addicted to them and my motivation and attitude is above average. I work all day without being tired. And yes, I go out running every day to induce a sweat to remove mercury. Amazing results so far! At this rate, I will be cured of mercury poisoning within 6 months.

And yes, Planescape Torrments is genius imo. Ah, back in the day computer gaming was hardcore and developers made games out of love for them. They didn't hold anything back because of profits. Now that it's mainstream, it's all about money which means pleasing the masses, therefore games have to be simple and addictive. Who wants to read, for example?