Is Apollo the morning star, and not Lucifer?

[michael christopher]

Okay, I know this is a bizarre question, because it would seem self-evident that Lucifer has been traditionally associated with the morning star.

For my whole life, I have been interested in Apollo. I don't know why, but I always loved him for some reason, he's always been my favorite god, even since I was a young child. I've always been fascinated with him, as a result I tend to know a lot about his characteristics and his derivative aspects (like his son Asceplius). Since I was young and read Revelations, it always stuck with me that the beast was named Apollyon. I knew this had to have something to do with Apollo, but I could never figure it out, and just assumed it was a coincidence for a very long time.

However, when I found out that Revelations was originally written in Greek, that made it click for me that it had to be referring to Apollo, or a cult of Apollo. I could never figure anything out beyond that though.

I have also been fascinated with Hermes/Mercury since he is my birth god/planet. Whereas Apollo is the god of creativity, art, inspiration, unconventional romance (for lack of a better term homosexuality but he was a bisexual god, like most of the other male gods seemed to randomly be), Mercury is the god of thought/intellect, knowledge, understanding, etc. correlated to the Egyptian God of the same, Thoth.

I could never figure out who Apollo was supposed to correlate to in Egypt, and it's likely he wasn't supposed to correlate to anyone. Although Ra and Apollo are both sun gods, they seem pretty different. And even the Egyptian gods that seem similar to the Greek gods are still pretty different...

Anyway, I've recently learned that the Greeks and Romans called Mercury by two names, because you can only see it during the dawn and during twilight. During the morning, because it was closest to the sun, it was the first star you could see in the morning. At least I think so... either way, it is one of the two planets to appear in the sky in the morning, the other being Venus, and could thus be considered the morning star - also considering that Apollo was the sun God, it would make sense that he would bring with him the sun in the morning, and thus signal in the dawn - making him the morning star. Anyway, I don't think it could be Venus... Mercury is closest to the sun, and the dawn star they called Apollo, and the evening star Mercury. If this star "Apollo" is the star of dawn, or the morning star - Mercury in the daytime of the earth - then it would finally make sense to me why the beast in Revelation is called Apollyon. I still don't really think Apollo is evil at all, in fact I find his qualities to be rather endearing and representative of creativity and love. I have problems with the Bible regardless, and believe it was heavily tampered with - but that's another thread, for another day.

What does everyone think? Could it be possible that the morning star referred to is indeed not the planet Venus, or it's male deity aspect Lucifer, but could be, as per it's indication in Revelation, the light aspect of Mercury, otherwise called by the Romans Apollo?

Is the "beast" or Anti-Christ of the Bible actually supposed to be Apollo, or one endowed of Apollonian energy?

On a semi-related note, that would make Apollo and Mercury dualist gods, Apollo representing the light, Mercury the darkness. Mercury is very dualistic planet - one half is extremely hot, baking in the sun, and the other side faces cold darkness with no sun or moon shining upon it, and is extremely freezing cold. I thought maybe Mercury and Apollo could represent the two-sides of the brain, Apollo representing the right, creative side and Mercury representing the left, logical side.

[romas]

Good point, I'm getting sick of parrots all over the place claiming Venus as Lucifer, when clearly one is feminine and the other is male.

Oh btw my planet is Mercury apparently *shakes hand*

[michael christopher]

Good point, I'm getting sick of parrots all over the place claiming Venus as Lucifer, when clearly one is feminine and the other is male.

Oh btw my planet is Mercury apparently *shakes hand*

Well, the Romans gave a dual aspect to everything, and for the planet Venus they had a masculine concept, Lucifer, and a feminine concept, Venus, and that's just a historical fact.

EDIT: Yes, we children of Mercury must stick together for the coming age! :D I've found everyone born under Mercury seems to think alike.

[imago dei]

Okay, I know this is a bizarre question, because it would seem self-evident that Lucifer has been traditionally associated with the morning star.

For my whole life, I have been interested in Apollo. I don't know why, but I always loved him for some reason, he's always been my favorite god, even since I was a young child. I've always been fascinated with him, as a result I tend to know a lot about his characteristics and his derivative aspects (like his son Asceplius). Since I was young and read Revelations, it always stuck with me that the beast was named Apollyon. I knew this had to have something to do with Apollo, but I could never figure it out, and just assumed it was a coincidence for a very long time.

However, when I found out that Revelations was originally written in Greek, that made it click for me that it had to be referring to Apollo, or a cult of Apollo. I could never figure anything out beyond that though.

I have also been fascinated with Hermes/Mercury since he is my birth god/planet. Whereas Apollo is the god of creativity, art, inspiration, unconventional romance (for lack of a better term homosexuality but he was a bisexual god, like most of the other male gods seemed to randomly be), Mercury is the god of thought/intellect, knowledge, understanding, etc. correlated to the Egyptian God of the same, Thoth.

I could never figure out who Apollo was supposed to correlate to in Egypt, and it's likely he wasn't supposed to correlate to anyone. Although Ra and Apollo are both sun gods, they seem pretty different. And even the Egyptian gods that seem similar to the Greek gods are still pretty different...

Anyway, I've recently learned that the Greeks and Romans called Mercury by two names, because you can only see it during the dawn and during twilight. During the morning, because it was closest to the sun, it was the first star you could see in the morning. At least I think so... either way, it is one of the two planets to appear in the sky in the morning, the other being Venus, and could thus be considered the morning star - also considering that Apollo was the sun God, it would make sense that he would bring with him the sun in the morning, and thus signal in the dawn - making him the morning star. Anyway, I don't think it could be Venus... Mercury is closest to the sun, and the dawn star they called Apollo, and the evening star Mercury. If this star "Apollo" is the star of dawn, or the morning star - Mercury in the daytime of the earth - then it would finally make sense to me why the beast in Revelation is called Apollyon. I still don't really think Apollo is evil at all, in fact I find his qualities to be rather endearing and representative of creativity and love. I have problems with the Bible regardless, and believe it was heavily tampered with - but that's another thread, for another day.

What does everyone think? Could it be possible that the morning star referred to is indeed not the planet Venus, or it's male deity aspect Lucifer, but could be, as per it's indication in Revelation, the light aspect of Mercury, otherwise called by the Romans Apollo?

Is the "beast" or Anti-Christ of the Bible actually supposed to be Apollo, or one endowed of Apollonian energy?

On a semi-related note, that would make Apollo and Mercury dualist gods, Apollo representing the light, Mercury the darkness. Mercury is very dualistic planet - one half is extremely hot, baking in the sun, and the other side faces cold darkness with no sun or moon shining upon it, and is extremely freezing cold. I thought maybe Mercury and Apollo could represent the two-sides of the brain, Apollo representing the right, creative side and Mercury representing the left, logical side.

The god of Homosexuality? Riiiiggggghhhhhht. Leave the bible out of it pal, it has nothing to do with this hogwash. Bizzar is an understatement!

[michael christopher]

The god of Homosexuality? Riiiiggggghhhhhht. Leave the bible out of it pal, it has nothing to do with this hogwash. Bizzar is an understatement!

Thanks for your expertise, it's clear you are very well-read and have a deep, thorough understanding of your own religion.

:rolleyes:

BTW, Apollo would be Apollyon, the BEAST in the Bible, who shall be "undefiled of women" - but you don't need to read the Bible to know it's authentic, you just need to believe Ivan Panin is telling the truth!

Keep your SHIT out of my thread or I will report you. This thread is for serious researchers, not ignorant trolls.

[imago dei]

Thanks for your expertise, it's clear you are very well-read and have a deep, thorough understanding of your own religion.

:rolleyes:

BTW, Apollo would be Apollyon, the BEAST in the Bible, who shall be "undefiled of women" - but you don't need to read the Bible to know it's authentic, you just need to believe Ivan Panin is telling the truth!

Keep your SHIT out of my thread or I will report you. This thread is for serious researchers, not ignorant trolls.

Report away pal, you dumped in my thread first, you reap what you sew. Serious researchers? All two of you. Nice. Since when is posting a comment in your threads which disagrees with you considered to be trolling? As i said you dumped a remark in my thread first so if thats trolling, you started it. Try growing up just a little MC.

[romas]

Well, the Romans gave a dual aspect to everything, and for the planet Venus they had a masculine concept, Lucifer, and a feminine concept, Venus, and that's just a historical fact.

EDIT: Yes, we children of Mercury must stick together for the coming age! :D I've found everyone born under Mercury seems to think alike.



Yeah, but these "historical facts" are often manipulated with special intent in mind. Smells like church machinations.

I've found some here: (http://www.linkroll.com/Religion-News-and-Society--105039-Secret-Masonic-Symbols-and-Freemasonry-Connection-to-Lucifer-Symbolism.html)

Vulgate translation:
Hebrew = "daystar" = Lucifer (Venus was classed as the morning star and in Ancient times referred to as Lucifer.
Christian translation = Lucifer = Satan
Latin translations = Lucifer = Light bearing

Freemasons:
Hebrew: day-star=heyleyl = planet Venus

The planet Venus could be seen during both the day and the evening. The Greeks and the Romans had set names for it when it appeared in the morning and set names for it when it appeared in the evening.

In the morning...
Greeks = Phosphorus
Romans = Lucifer

In the evening
Greeks = Hesperus
Romans = Venus

From Hebrew to Greek into Latin would translate it to Lucifer. The argument that the Freemasons offer is that the term "Lucifer" in reference to Satan or the devil never existed further back than the middle ages and it became a common term for the devil because of a poem called "Paradise Lost.


Do you know any other planet surrounded with such duality?
In astrology Venus is Aphrodite, feminine goddess.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_(astrology)#Planetary_symbolism


Here's some interesting stuff on Aphelion (http://www.darkstar1.co.uk/ds20.html)

[michael christopher]

Yeah, but these "historical facts" are often manipulated with special intent in mind. Smells like church machinations.

I've found some here: (http://www.linkroll.com/Religion-News-and-Society--105039-Secret-Masonic-Symbols-and-Freemasonry-Connection-to-Lucifer-Symbolism.html)




Do you know any other planet surrounded with such duality?
In astrology Venus is Aphrodite, feminine goddess.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_(astrology)#Planetary_symbolism


Here's some interesting stuff on Aphelion (http://www.darkstar1.co.uk/ds20.html)

Yeah but I don't see what the issue is, because you just confirmed that Lucifer is in fact the planet Venus in the day time.

The Church has manipulated history, to make it seem like Lucifer is a Christian story when in fact he is ancient Roman history.

I didn't know however, and I'm starting to think based on the info you just posted, that Apollo has always been a dual aspect to Mercury. He must be if all the planets had male female concepts... it's weird to think of Mercury as a female concept to Apollo, though, as Apollo seems more feminine in nature to me.

[romas]

Yeah but I don't see what the issue is, because you just confirmed that Lucifer is in fact the planet Venus in the day time.

The Church has manipulated history, to make it seem like Lucifer is a Christian story when in fact he is ancient Roman history.

I didn't know however, and I'm starting to think based on the info you just posted, that Apollo has always been a dual aspect to Mercury. He must be if all the planets had male female concepts... it's weird to think of Mercury as a female concept to Apollo, though, as Apollo seems more feminine in nature to me.



The whole Lucifer association seems foreign to Roman Pantheon(as well as Greek), it seems of a much older origin from middle east(Caanan?), lux is light in latin.

lustratio = christening
lustrationis = of the baptism
luxor = in Latin language means "living in dissipation / licentiousness" [also with the meaning of living as concubine?]

Christian myths are collection of various myths and theologies from past civilizations.

Some info here (http://illuminatiorder.com/pages/blogs/i/2003/06/lucifer-is-latin-term-originally.html)


As for Apollo I don't see how it's Mercury, because Hermes is his Greek name.
Apollo seems like a Sun(god of sun), he is Gods Son - Zeus son.

Twelve Olympians - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[michael christopher]

The whole Lucifer association seems foreign to Roman Pantheon(as well as Greek), it seems of a much older origin from middle east(Caanan?), lux is light in latin.

lustratio = christening
lustrationis = of the baptism
luxor = in Latin language means "living in dissipation / licentiousness" [also with the meaning of living as concubine?]

Christian myths are collection of various myths and theologies from past civilizations.

Some info here (http://illuminatiorder.com/pages/blogs/i/2003/06/lucifer-is-latin-term-originally.html)


As for Apollo I don't see how it's Mercury, because Hermes is his Greek name.
Apollo seems like a Sun(god of sun), he is Gods Son - Zeus son.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve_Olympians

I know all of that, and I know Lucifer probably pre-dates Roman civilization, but the fact remains that he was a Roman deity named Lucifer, and much of the New Testament was compiled in Rome, and the Old Testament translated there, which would explain why Lucifer is used. He was factually the male aspect of the deity Venus, as you already explained... so whether he predates it or not is irrelevant. If we want to get technical the first Lucifer was probably Enki. But he has emanations throughout all cultures because he is after all just an archetype for rebellion.

Also, the reason I claim Apollo is Mercury, is because the planet Mercury was called Apollo in the day-time, and Mercury in the evening. Since this is the morning star, it makes sense to me that Apollo is the Morning Star, not Lucifer, and that perhaps this is why Revelations refers to Apollyon as the beast. Considering he is "undefiled of women" it also links to Apollo's correspondence to homosexuality.

So, I know they are different aspects, just as Lucifer and Venus are different aspects, but they still represent the same planet, and that has a symbolic significance that should not be ignored and which begs many questions about the morning star referred to in the Bible.

[romas]

Probably, it is indeed closest to the sun, hence son of the Sun.

[michael christopher]

Probably, it is indeed closest to the sun, hence son of the Sun.

That's what I thought. I think that Lucifer may have been super-imposed over the term "Morning Star" when it was never meant to represent Lucifer at all, or the female aspect Venus.

[thelucifer]

BTW, Apollo would be Apollyon, the BEAST in the Bible, who shall be "undefiled of women" - but you don't need to read the Bible to know it's authentic, you just need to believe Ivan Panin is telling the truth!



Let me throw something into the works.

The "beast", I submit, is the beast (Compasses and Square with horns !!!) laid out in the design of Washington DC.
DC is a masonic construct.
Freemasonry is a male only club hence "undefiled of women".



The beast/Satan (false Lucifer) in the Bible tempts the Jesus character on a "hill", I submit that hill is in fact Capital Hill, where the head of the DC masonic beast is, capitalize by bowing to the masonic DC beast Satan, the super power of the world.
Its all by design.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20199
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43312






The dualistic stuff is dizzyingly hard core with these folks.

[imago dei]

Let me throw something into the works.

The "beast", I submit, is the beast (Compasses and Square with horns !!!) laid out in the design of Washington DC.
DC is a masonic construct.
Freemasonry is a male only club hence "undefiled of women".



The beast/Satan (false Lucifer) in the Bible tempts the Jesus character on a "hill", I submit that hill is in fact Capital Hill, where the head of the DC masonic beast is, capitalize by bowing to the masonic DC beast Satan, the super power of the world.
Its all by design.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20199
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43312






The dualistic stuff is dizzyingly hard core with these folks.

Then the devil took him to the holy city, 8 had him stand 9 on the highest point 10 of the temple, 4:6 and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down. For it is written, ‘He will command his angels concerning you’ 11 and ‘with their hands they will lift you up, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’” 12 4:7 Jesus said to him, “Once again it is written: ‘You are not to put the Lord your God to the test.’” 13 4:8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their grandeur. 14 4:9 And he said to him, “I will give you all these things if you throw yourself to the ground and worship 15 me.” 4:10 Then Jesus said to him, “Go away, 16 Satan! For it is written: ‘You are to worship the Lord your God and serve only him.’” 17 4:11 Then the devil left him, and angels 18 came and began ministering to his needs.

I dont think Capital Hill, is the Holy city.

[michael christopher]

Then the devil took him to the holy city, 8 had him stand 9 on the highest point 10 of the temple, 4:6 and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down. For it is written, ‘He will command his angels concerning you’ 11 and ‘with their hands they will lift you up, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’” 12 4:7 Jesus said to him, “Once again it is written: ‘You are not to put the Lord your God to the test.’” 13 4:8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their grandeur. 14 4:9 And he said to him, “I will give you all these things if you throw yourself to the ground and worship 15 me.” 4:10 Then Jesus said to him, “Go away, 16 Satan! For it is written: ‘You are to worship the Lord your God and serve only him.’” 17 4:11 Then the devil left him, and angels 18 came and began ministering to his needs.

Right obvioulsy Capital Hill, the Holy city. NOT! FACT.

As soon as you "serious researchers" get serious realise that satan is the god of this world and has dominion and power over all of it, your eyes will be opened and you will become spiritually awakened and fully enabled to see who in fact Jesus Christ really is and that he is not a character in MC's or anyone elses latest sycophantic novel about greek gods. Until that time you are just a blind unwitting characters in satans losing game.

Your post has been reported and I don't appreciate the personal attack or your attempt to derail my thread. Don't think I'm going to put up with your bullshit this time around. If you don't stick to the forum rules I will report you every single time.

[imago dei]

Your post has been reported and I don't appreciate the personal attack or your attempt to derail my thread. Don't think I'm going to put up with your bullshit this time around. If you don't stick to the forum rules I will report you every single time.

Sorry I removed the comment about your novel. Im sure its very good and well researched, forgive me, I wont go there again. Be good.

[michael christopher]

Is there anyone from this forum well-researched in Ancient Greek and Roman mythology? I have done some research but perhaps there is someone with some expertise who can speak on this subject. I would really appreciate some further insight, it seems to make so much sense to me, it clears up so many confusions I had when trying to understand the archetypes...

Anyone?

[fff_666]

Report away pal, you dumped in my thread first, you reap what you sew. Serious researchers? All two of you. Nice. Since when is posting a comment in your threads which disagrees with you considered to be trolling? As i said you dumped a remark in my thread first so if thats trolling, you started it. Try growing up just a little MC.

LOL you know for a christian " you reap what you sow" sounds like the exact opposite of "turn the other cheek" as jesus would have you do. he was simply making an inquiry and suggesting. more hypocrisy, I guess its only wrong when none christians do it huh?

[michael christopher]

A couple of discoveries. Apollo's mother was named Leto, and her mother was a Titan named Phoebe. Leto had Zeus' children Apollo and Artemis, and they are twins, Artemis being the elder sister. Hera was very angry about this of course, Zeus cheated on her pretty regularly. She knew that Apollo and Artemis would cement in a new order. Artemis was borne easily, but Apollo took labor for 9 days and 9 nights. Once again 9 is the number of the Beast numerologically.

Also, Apollo's Roman name is Phoebus Apollo. This is a reference to his grandmother Phoebe the Titan, a moon goddess. Apollo is the sun God. So a combination of the sun and moon would be Phoebus Apollo... just a thought, but Mercury, Apollo's planet, is basically a moon. So Apollo could be, in Roman terms, "The Moon of the Sun" or Mercury!

:)

I really think I'm onto something.

[michael christopher]

http://dailyastronomer.wordpress.com/2009/03/25/da-march-25-2009-venus-or-apollo/

THE DAILY ASTRONOMER
March 25, 2009
Venus or Apollo?


Evening star?
Morning star?
Apparition of Venus?
Ascent of Apollo?
Same world?
Different world?

As though the night sky didn’t already offer a delicious assortment of perplexing phenomena, now we must contend with morning star/evening star issue. Hopefully, if we apply ourselves fully to the task at hand, we might resolve it in a wholly satisfactory man…. Oh, who are we kidding? We’ll give it a try and just pray it doesn’t explode in our faces.

Tonight, one will find the planet Venus low in the western sky. Venus always outshines all the night sky stars. So, when it is visible just after sunset, it is often known as the “evening star.” Venus has earned this moniker, thank you very much, because it is so bright and distinct. When Venus appears just before sunrise in the east, it is known as the “morning star.”

As Venus is closer to the Sun than Earth, our sister world never appears to stray too far from Sol. When Venus appears before sunrise, it must necessarily be in the eastern pre-dawn sky. When Venus is the evening star, it has to be in the western evening sky just after sunset. It is not possible to see Venus in the east after sunset or in the west before Sunrise. Such positioning is only possible for planets that are farther away from the Sun than Earth (Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune). For those keeping glossaries, such planets are known as “superiors,” whereas Venus and Mercury are “inferiors.”

While Venus is almost always the “evening,” or “morning” star, some consider that Mercury can also fulfill this role. As for this issue, the DA is dubious. Mercury is the closest planet to Sun and thus Mercury always remains quite close to it in the sky, never venturing more than 28 degrees away from Sol, as opposed to Venus’ maximum elongation angle of 47 degrees. Mercury can sometimes be high enough to be easily visible in the morning or evening, but not often. Even most seasoned astronomers admit that they have hardly ever observed Mercury. Some astronomers have said that they’ve only observed Mercury during Mercurian transits: passages of Mercury across the Sun’s disc: an event that occurs approximately 13 times per century.
Mercury is hardly the type of planet that would serve as a brilliant and commanding evening star.

Another matter pertains to the name. “Venus” is the name of the solar system’s second planet. That name won’t change anytime soo. However, when seen as the morning star, Venus was often known as “Apollo,” the god of the Sun, poetry, and prophecy. This designation was sensible because one would expect Apollo to appear before the Sun’s arrival.

Today, the “Apollo” name is hardly ever used because people finally realized that calling the same planet by two different names could be a bit confusing. And, the one thing we cannot tolerate is a confusing night sky.

This is a little confusing. Were both Venus and Mercury referred to as Apollo in ancient times?

It seems it would be one or the other... I admit it makes more sense for Venus to be the Morning Star coupled with Apollo, but I would like to know which planet was actually called Apollo historically. I've read both Mercury and Venus and it seems unlikely that they would both be the Apollonian planet. If it is Venus it clears up the issues about Venus being Lucifer, because Venus, Apollo and Lucifer would all be emanations of the same archetype. HMMMM.

That's what I used to think until I coupled Apollo with Mercury, but perhaps they were never meant to be coupled.