View Full Version : Crop Circle Origins
who elsie
11-07-2009, 09:52 AM
Yatesbury Field, nr Yatesbury, Wiltshire
(Reported 8th July)
The hoax makers or 'circle makers' as they call themselves claim to be able to produce formations of a high standard now. This may be true to some extent - but only when viewed from the air. The above formation looks impressive at first glance, until you read the ground report, which reveals all. It is, like many other known formations, relatively small, compared to some of the more enigmatic ones.
As I've said before, to really appreciate the formations you can't just look at photos on the net, you have to actually visit them and experience them on ground level.
I'm planning to go visiting some around Avebury this weekend. Can't wait!
cinder_darkskys
11-07-2009, 10:25 AM
In my oppinion, any one who fakes these things, are showing them selfs to be undercomplete control by whats makeing the Crop Circles. in other words there under there control. an simply replying back. and dont know.
The whole time they think there pulling this big Scam, there actial working for them. them beeing what you call Et which is not. the Earth is old very old.
I believe a Crop circles has no maxium range, altho I say Galaxic, It can be looked at as intergalxic. Some spritialist may have said they think or believe the Dead are part of a Crop Circle, there probly right in some way.
Place's like Stonehenges holed a lot power spritialy, a soul is much easer to transport, then a vessal or a body. but not every one is good enought for Heaven. Certan Goverments, Religion, and Groups who think they gain power, they have painted a rosy image for you to see, all the time pasifing you to the point of head long confussion. With polerizing view points, design to advance humanity as quickly as possable, throw agressive, an passive behaver. This give them a certan amount of control.
The question become < What do they meen good enought)
Also main unknown is, I believe these special places actial sit on what I have or may have discribed as a finger of God.
Leyline come in to this as well, as they use this to travel around on. Now there 2 basic side what man precives as good, an of corce the poler to this is what we call evil, good bad < its realy that simple).
Religions are the warning bells, something going to happen, throw out religus art there allway been a vission of heaven, but if you look behind the angel a truth revils it self.
I have call what you will see the harvers of death. How ever history always speak of a heavenly place where the dead are loved an safe, but continialy we pay these beening, in some way, while this heaven is safe, other are not so luckly. This also very clear in history, I call this the Good the Bad, and the Ugly
Crop Circle created in the shape of a dick, that the sign of the prue Omega. man made or not.
Back to heaven Its said that not every one makes it to heaven. I believe very few of souls throw out the last 2,000 years have made it. The rest fall to the pit, You burn, or are recycle souls, not ready for heaven.
Many peaple have felt unusal things in a Crop circles, some peaple are up lifted others want to puke. Sound like religion and the effects of pro or neg force, mostlikly also posted on this topic.
Now step back, ask your self what is the possibilty humanity would build a fortess in the land of the dead to protect it selfs, what would you call this Fortess. I have said I dont by Aliens come to Earth an If they did Why would god want Aliens nere his children. what would he do if something were about happen, could do anything at all. What would this look like.
step back a bit more, ask your self, could an advance speice of this world, relized the thred an constructed something, humans are useing to protect them self.
The Bible claim Religion comes from another place, other then Earth. Book of Thessalonians
1For yourselves, brethren, know our entrance in unto you, that it was not in vain
1 Thessalonians 2 (New International Version
5You know we never used flattery, nor did we put on a mask to cover up greed—God is our witness. 6We were not looking for praise from men, not from you or anyone else.
As apostles of Christ we could have been a burden to you, 7but we were gentle among you, like a mother caring for her little children. 8We loved you so much that we were delighted to share with you not only the gospel of God but our lives as well, because you had become so dear to us.
9For ye remember, brethren, our labour and travail: for labouring night and day, because we would not be chargeable unto any of you, we preached unto you the gospel of God.
10Ye are witnesses, and God also, how holily and justly and unblameably we behaved ourselves among you that believe:
13For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.
14For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:
15Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men< Key ALL men )
16Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.
17But we, brethren, being taken from you for a short time in presence, not in heart, endeavoured the more abundantly to see your face with great desire.
18Wherefore we would have come unto you, even I Paul, once and again; but Satan hindered us.
1 Thessalonians 5
2For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
4But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
7For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
8But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
How dose Crop Circle fit on to this, its splater all throw the books of truth, I choose this passages, to show contact. of a Force that believe it self to be justifed in whats its doing, to a different speice, be cause there are forces at work we can not under stand < dark force, an it invades all men) As it did with mars. I dont believe they knew what was killing them till the end.
Eden, finger of god, pins in the Earth,Tree of life, Flower of life on an on. Floating Wheels.
Crop Circles there contact points, it was in the passed like it is now.
I look at the aztec calendar, how long has it been here, and well look at how long its taken there Specialist to come up with any other then prue speculation. It a dream stone, even the dream him self didnt understand what he was doing.
Crop Circles are the same way. why because if some one did pin them down powerful peaple would use it for them selfs < that would be GREED) WE all lost the game.
We ask our self why is there wars why all the killings, MEN = Satan, not a man. not just Men but ALL men.
We have to step passed our self in order to understand, these words
It better to Rule in hell then Rain in Heaven.
An satan said to God I can make any one disbelieve in you god. That easy if your curse an blinded.
This happening right now in the Holy lands, on all sides.
http://www.ovnis.atfreeweb.com/5_crop_circles.htm
t is likely that these geometric designs are due to the firing of an aerial military microwave cannon, piloted by computer. The arguments supporting this view are as follows:
Why Microwaves:
Research by Dr Levengood (of BLT Research Team), an American biophysicist, corroborated by the analyses of Ken Larsen, a British biologist, has shown that the way in which the stalks (wheat, rapeseed…) are flattened without being broken or damaged [p. 25…] is typical of a UHF microwave effect. Thus one can see stalks of rapeseed curving at 90 degrees, the flowers of which are still intact, although those same rapeseed stalks break easily when one attempts to bend them over by hand [p. 151]. The new position taken up by the plant becomes fixed. It continues to grow horizontally [p. 3 and 158] and breaks if one tries to return it to the upright position [p. 140].
Phenomena of electromagnetic origin have been observed at the locations: irregular compass behaviour [p. 172], disturbance of electrical apparatus [p. 44, 60 and 172-173], disturbance of radio frequencies, luminous flashes [p. 34, 52, 65 and 95], cracking sounds [p. 52, 63, 66 and 172-173], animals obviously unwell [p. 65 and 81], dowsing effects [p. 177-178], etc. Numerous positive effects (spontaneous cures, feelings of peace…) or negative effects (temporary paralysis, mental confusion, loss of memory, terror…) have also been observed in humans [LP98]. Let us remember that certain effects could also be explained by a reaction of fertilisers or pesticides subjected to microwave radiation, a reaction which could release toxic gases [LP98, who mentions organic phosphates]. The appearances of luminous flashes and the cracking sounds are not inevitably objective phenomena and they could be only feelings induced in the brain of the witness by an electromagnetic field. Albert Budden gives an example of such magnetophosphenes: "If the brain of the subject is exposed to an [alternating] magnetic field whose frequency varies from 10 to 100 Hz and whose power varies from 200 to 1,000 G, the subject will see flashes of light [...] in the top left corner of his visual field." [AB98 p. 59-60, citing research by L. Ruttan, M. Persinger and S. Koren].
The investigator Busty Taylor showed that samples of plants or ground taken in a crop circle could be attracted by a simple magnet [AB98 p. 50-51]. That could be explained by the fact that the ferromagnetic particles present in the dust of the atmosphere were bound with the site of the circle, after or during its creation. Some of these particles have been scrutinised under microscope. They seemed to have melted when touching the soil or the plants to create a fine cracked glaze.
A bird was found within one particular formation and its body appeared literally to have exploded, as if it had been cooked alive in a microwave oven. In other formations some dried out hedgehogs were discovered [LP98]. Also wheat grains are dehydrated and crunchy. They are less conductive according to work by Dr Levengood.
Microwave laser technology appeared during the 50s and has been improving in keeping with the increasing complexity of the crop circles. Is it a mere coincidence?
More than 50% of the circles observed in England have appeared during cloudy or rainy weather: the cloud cover would allow the origin of the microwave firing to be hidden. Microwaves are able to pass through clouds and act through falling rain, and they are perhaps less damaging to plants when it is raining.
Certain patterns suggest the use of a rotating beam with variable diameter according to the circles in question [PDCA89 p. 156], which might correspond to either the natural or deliberate dispersion of a maser beam, fired from a high altitude. The diameter is estimated to be less than 30 centimetres at a distance of 20 kilometres.
Why by Computer:
The geometric designs observed today are typical of those one can see on computers: 3D designs, fractal designs… Certain patterns are, mathematically speaking, pretty complex (fig. 5-b).
http://www.ovnis.atfreeweb.com/images/PictosCropEcran.gif
Fig. 5-b: a few of the pictograms observed in England
The designs are drawn very rapidly, by day and by night, sometimes in front of witnesses who report seeing the ears of wheat flattening out in front of them in a few dozens of seconds. Three accounts of this type have been recorded up to the present day, coming from known and trustworthy witnesses [LP98]. Numerous other accounts have come from unfortunately less trustworthy persons.
Why an Aerial Shooting:
There are no traces of access to the sites even when the field is not lined by tractor tracks because the crop is not sprayed, or when the ground is muddy [PDCA89 p. 68, 107, 113 and 155]. We must remember that a field of mature rapeseed cannot be crossed on foot because the plants (as high as 1,50 metres) are tightly interwoven.
There are sometimes broken or burned tree branches directly above the circles [p. 174 and 184].
Why by the Military:
HPM (High Power Microwave) technology is used by the military today for destroying enemy electronic equipment.
President Reagan’s "Star Wars" (SDI) proposed the setting up of various antimissile laser devices. Let us mention only the GBL (Ground-Based Laser), a ground cannon aimed at a reflecting satellite which sends the light beam to a combat satellite mirror, and the SBL (Space-Based Laser) which aims directly at the target. Even if the global project has been abandoned, some of its devices may have been completed on a small scale. The firing can also be carried out from a plane (airborne laser) or a dirigible balloon positioned at a height of 20 kilometres and stabilised for example by ionic propulsion engines. As the reader will appreciate, the necessary technical means appear to be accessible only to the military.
In 1991, a design appeared in front of the country residence of the British Prime Minister John Major, pointing towards the house. Obviously this dwelling was under strict surveillance because of a fear of IRA terrorist acts. What other organisation apart from the secret services would be behind such a design? Numerous crop circles have also been observed in fenced military areas under surveillance.
The military wish to maintain the belief in extraterrestrials and are carrying out psychological warfare tests. They have the means for decoying the observers with fake saucers so that the circles will be attributed to extraterrestrials.
The military secret services are not held back by the risk of killing. Unfortunately the "circles" have already produced one victim: on the 22nd October 1987, as his jet was passing above a crop circle, the pilot ejected and then detached himself from his parachute before hitting the ground [cf PDCA89 p. 104]. Some aerial photographers report that the designs have a noticeable influence on them and on the aircraft controls when it is flying above them.
The British military is co-operating extensively with the American military and may have agreed to the use of "its" land.
The authentic formations have, of course, lead to numerous imitations which were at first rare and clumsy but nowadays are more common and sometimes impressive if the hoaxers have worked as a team for long hours. Competitions have been organised but no hoax has been able to withstand close scrutiny.
In order to distinguish an authentic pattern from a hoax, investigators concentrate mainly on the bending of the plant's stalk at its base, the plant having always to remain unbroken, something which imitators find impossible to achieve as they tread down their design in all directions during its making. Freddy Silva sometimes uses infrared photography on which one must see appear traces of disturbances in the spread of water within the soil if the design has really been created by heat-inducing rays. Debbie Benstead and other researchers often clearly identify a metallic taste in their mouths when they walk within an authentic formation [LP98] which could be due to a residual electromagnetic field interfering with tooth filling inside their mouth.
In 1991, according to research by George Wingfield, the CIA and the British Ministry of Defence secretly persuaded two retired gentlemen, David Chorley and Douglas Bower, to declare that they were the authors of the crop circles that had been observed to date, without providing evidence to support their statement. When this explanation became clearly insufficient, some agricultural students then made their appearance claiming they were making the circles. Now that it is almost admitted that microwaves are involved, are we to see appear in the media a group of scientist hoaxers who make designs in the fields from their telecommunications satellite?
oh yeah the formation has such meaning , it explains blaa blaa blaa UFO blaa blaa blaa
hmm why don`t these aliens beam up the corn and make weetobixs ?
or fry a bank and nick the gold? or some other resource ?
so you agree most are hoaxes or man made via microwave technology then?
no, i think aliens spend their time drawing crudely drawn cocks in corn fields
yeah aliens only want to communicate to them on a higher consciousness then:rolleyes:
yeah aliens only want to communicate to them on a higher consciousness then:rolleyes:
who's them
jamesc
11-07-2009, 08:24 PM
t is likely that these geometric designs are due to the firing of an aerial military microwave cannon, piloted by computer. The arguments supporting this view are as follows:
Why Microwaves:
WHY would the military want to do this ?,WHY draw attention to your self if this technology is secret??What possible motives would they have.Why not do it on some restricted land far away from the public eye.:confused::cool:
t is likely that these geometric designs are due to the firing of an aerial military microwave cannon, piloted by computer. The arguments supporting this view are as follows:
Why Microwaves:
WHY would the military want to do this ?,WHY draw attention to your self if this technology is secret??What possible motives would they have.Why not do it on some restricted land far away from the public eye.:confused::cool:
I think its a tactic to use seemingly to use technology outwith belief and culture to subvert peoples beliefs
Its be used in the past.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subversion_(doubt)
When Thomas Harriot was left at a New World colony by Sir Walter Raleigh in 1586, it was partly his duty to bring civilisation to the Native Americans (then referred to as Indians). As civilisation was purportedly impossible without Christianity, this was to be imposed upon the Native Americans. Harriot documented two relevant observations in his Brief and True Report of the New Found Land of Virginia. Firstly, that the natives had a degree of religion to their culture of which Harriot drew parallels to Christianity. Secondly, he noticed that everyday non-divine objects caused the natives to believe in the divinity of the invaders, noting
"Most things they saw with us, as mathematical instruments, sea compasses, the virtue of the lodestone in drawing iron, a perspective glass whereby was shown many strange sights, burning glasses, wildfire works, gun, book, writing and reading, spring clocks that seemed to go off by themselves, and many other things that we had, were so strange unto them and so far exceeded their capabilities to comprehend the reason and means how they should be made and done that they thought they were rather the works of gods than of men, or at the leastwise they had been given and taught us of the gods"[2]
It would seem that Harriot used this to impose Christianity upon the natives. At one point, as the native crop was scarce one year, Harriot suggested that the Christian God would provide better for their land.[3] Thus the Subversion was Produced and Contained.
bit ironic it mentions crops....but there again I am a lucky fucker:)
advanced Microwave technology is not outside my belief or culture
cinder_darkskys
11-07-2009, 09:38 PM
A real Crop Circle contain huge amount of information, its not just 1 image. they dimesionial, it why my Copy rights are the way they are. it a new world.
U see thess circles as a cool image, but not as there ment to be seen.
Take cydonia, wonderfull place, full of information that cant be accessed. It revile how man is seen, who an what we are, what happens after death, an much more. + who's watching us.
enought informattion to fill the library of congress over an over, not including techno advancement, just earth history, in other words, any thing going agaist something like God, will be identifed in history.
As I said a Crop Circle has no range limit, each real one can ineffect and effect the whole world.
A Crop Circle can be translated. The replies can be translated.
I can only say, that it is the low end of the studdie group for me, but could become leeding edge studies, an altho I have not translated any or many of these Glyphs, I can do it, np.
They are contected to the Earth an Air sprites < these are Great Sprites, this mean I can read it, and understand it) fragments of sprite of Gods< 1 ), self.
More then a few this Glyph state we should run. I'm a human, I wont run from man or beast. an this my world, not there's. This is an invadsion of privacy, an invadsion of the human mind set, an invadsion, of humanity rights to govern them selfs, Its invadsion of the body an of the soul for all men. be he religus or not.
For me its can these little shits justif there action, Or do kill them on site, wing an halos or pitch forks an horns. makes no differnce to me. I know who God is.
A conman never stops smiling.
I hope this helps. when I find a the right serie Crop Glyphs, I will read them. Crops are part of the Forest Sprite.
PeaceLovesAll
clachan
12-07-2009, 12:08 AM
http://estb.msn.com/i/B4/28BC8ADAA38A399F4355C0D912AFDD.jpg
Its a hoax they obvisly went up the tractor track on the right and jump to form the top bit of jizz then jump to make the other..
Differently young farmers with string and a plank of wood!
also they have used the tractor tracks to form the shaft....and also used to scale then balls
in fact is there not a footpath to the center of each ball? must of stood there with string and somebody marked out the curve at the other end
if you look at the width of the tractor treads as a guide its not hard to under stand somebody could of easily jumped that far into the top jizz shape
Correct !
elton
12-07-2009, 12:11 AM
Correct !
Wrong. It doesn't explain how they did the jizz drops.
Wrong. It doesn't explain how they did the jizz drops.
I think you should of been a bit of jizz shot into space:D
elton
12-07-2009, 12:15 AM
I think you should of been a bit of jizz shot into space:D
So you can't explain it. If you can't explain it how can you conclude that it was done by stompers?
clachan
12-07-2009, 12:16 AM
Wrong. It doesn't explain how they did the jizz drops.
The tractor tyre lines are 2metres max. The distance from tyre line to jizz is no more than 1.5metres....easily jumperble or even easier with a set of standard step ladders......its someone pissing about.
elton
12-07-2009, 12:19 AM
The tractor tyre lines are 2metres max. The distance from tyre line to jizz is no more than 1.5metres....easily jumperble or even easier with a set of standard step ladders......its someone pissing about.
Yes I know they could jump in from a tractor, but how do they get back out?
they pole vaulted across from the top of the knob:D
http://comps.fotosearch.com/comp/UNC/UNC158/pole-vault_~u28254287.jpg
or did commando style
http://www.thecrimereport.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/helicopter22309-150x150.jpg
clachan
12-07-2009, 12:26 AM
Yes I know they could jump in from a tractor, but how do they get back out?
Jump ! it would be easy,or as ive said step ladders.
elton
12-07-2009, 12:27 AM
they pole vaulted across from the top of the knob:D
Rubbish. You say its hoaxers but you can't explain how they did it. You are just making wild assumptions with no evidence.
elton
12-07-2009, 12:28 AM
Jump ! it would be easy,or as ive said step ladders.
But if they jumped out from stepladders, how did they get the stepladders out after them? Eh?
clachan
12-07-2009, 12:39 AM
But if they jumped out from stepladders, how did they get the stepladders out after them? Eh?
Your mucking about arn,t you ? Step ladder form an A frame,you can simply place them in position,climb over,do the deed,cimb back over and lift them back from your original position.Try it.
Maybe the spunk/grapeshots are 'genuine' then some hoaxers came along and had the foresight to add the willy later? Anyway, isnt it just some computer generated image?
phildee3
12-07-2009, 11:10 AM
isnt it just some computer generated image?
I think we can safely assume it is -
as long as nobody gives a location.
lovestoned
12-07-2009, 12:31 PM
Cant believe you are arguing over the "Jizz circle" i think it is a genius bit of farmer handywork!!! hehe
diffidently microwaves ....the hiss could of been from a microwave hearing effect
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave_auditory_effect
The microwave auditory effect, also known as the microwave hearing effect or the Frey effect, consists of audible clicks induced by pulsed/modulated microwave frequencies. The clicks are generated directly inside the human head without the need of any receiving electronic device. The effect was first reported by persons working in the vicinity of radar transponders during World War II. These induced sounds are not audible to other people nearby. The microwave auditory effect was later discovered to be inducible with shorter-wavelength portions of the electromagnetic spectrum. During the Cold War era, the American neuroscientist Allan H. Frey studied this phenomenon and was the first to publish (Journal of Applied Physiology, Vol. 17, pages 689-692, 1962) information on the nature of the microwave auditory effect; this effect is therefore also known as the Frey effect.
also headache are reported by TI`s & Electrical Hypersensitivity & Microwave Sickness
http://www.powerwatch.org.uk/health/sensitivity.asp
Electrical Hypersensitivity (ES) is an illness that is both highly controversial and little understood. The symptoms can vary a lot between sufferers, but will normally include some of the following: sleep disturbance, tiredness, depression, headaches, restlessness, irritability, concentration problems, forgetfulness, learning difficulties, frequent infections, blood pressure changes, limb and joint pains, numbness or tingling sensations, tinnitus, hearing loss, impaired balance, giddiness and eye problems. There have been reports of cardiovascular problems such as tachycardia, though these are relatively rare.
Also in project Bizarre
http://wmamw.com/ProjBizarreWeapImp.htm
A cell phone study indicates alteration of time perception in humans
Also not all effects are degrading;) or the degrade his ability
clachan
12-07-2009, 04:21 PM
Re. police officer,what was his name?Where,s his statement?
I do think this formation is very convincing but this off duty policeman is,nt.
kingmob
12-07-2009, 04:40 PM
diffidently microwaves ....the hiss could of been from a microwave hearing effect
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave_auditory_effect
also headache are reported by TI`s & Electrical Hypersensitivity & Microwave Sickness
http://www.powerwatch.org.uk/health/sensitivity.asp
Also in project Bizarre
http://wmamw.com/ProjBizarreWeapImp.htm
Also not all effects are degrading;) or the degrade his ability
Dude, you need to chill with this microwave stuff. We know that you think its the government and their new microwave technology trying to trick us into believing crop circles. I would be much interested to hear your opinion for why they are making crop circles.
The crackling effect could be related to a dozen different things that have nothing to do with microwave technology.
Again, that report presents more questions than answers. 2 strange "humanoids" with superhuman powers examining it, some off duty cop that nobody knows about, some plants moving, etc.
The only thing that's clear is that the crop circle appeared.
ready have
Its be used in the past.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subversion_(doubt)
When Thomas Harriot was left at a New World colony by Sir Walter Raleigh in 1586, it was partly his duty to bring civilisation to the Native Americans (then referred to as Indians). As civilisation was purportedly impossible without Christianity, this was to be imposed upon the Native Americans. Harriot documented two relevant observations in his Brief and True Report of the New Found Land of Virginia. Firstly, that the natives had a degree of religion to their culture of which Harriot drew parallels to Christianity. Secondly, he noticed that everyday non-divine objects caused the natives to believe in the divinity of the invaders, noting
"Most things they saw with us, as mathematical instruments, sea compasses, the virtue of the lodestone in drawing iron, a perspective glass whereby was shown many strange sights, burning glasses, wildfire works, gun, book, writing and reading, spring clocks that seemed to go off by themselves, and many other things that we had, were so strange unto them and so far exceeded their capabilities to comprehend the reason and means how they should be made and done that they thought they were rather the works of gods than of men, or at the leastwise they had been given and taught us of the gods"[2]
It would seem that Harriot used this to impose Christianity upon the natives. At one point, as the native crop was scarce one year, Harriot suggested that the Christian God would provide better for their land.[3] Thus the Subversion was Produced and Contained.
too keep you natives with your simple tools believing in Aliens,UFO`s astral entity`s etc.....
Blame the Russians for starting this mind fuck war on humanity ....woodpecker signal..........
nukes had a cold war answer Mutual assured destruction
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_assured_destruction
Looks like this tech will have answer .....Domestic use.....you don`t comply you get fried - while they sit a one big table....great COF comply or fry
once you start realizing how much the spent on remote view and researching brain waves you start to worry Who`s satellite left there tag
How would we know who won the space race/mind war? or if it still going on or about to start?
deca, it's very easy to blame the guys sitting in an office for 'attacking your mind'
rather than to take responsability for your own mind and thoughts.
Im sorry if this offends you.
The disk-crop is one of those crops that I've always been interested in,
but I still don't believe that it's all Alien-made, because if it is...
Then they don't seem particularly smart to me. "We oppose deception?"
Well, that's good. Thanks for informing us by putting that crop-circle in England ONLY and not in other parts of the world.
You clearly are getting your message through. Twats. -_-
deca, it's very easy to blame the guys sitting in an office for 'attacking your mind'
rather than to take responsability for your own mind and thoughts.
Im sorry if this offends you.
The disk-crop is one of those crops that I've always been interested in,
but I still don't believe that it's all Alien-made, because if it is...
Then they don't seem particularly smart to me. "We oppose deception?"
Well, that's good. Thanks for informing us by putting that crop-circle in England ONLY and not in other parts of the world.
You clearly are getting your message through. Twats. -_-
enjoy you ascension ...:rolleyes:
I think I should right a book and cash in.
Its new dawn and new begin a new awakening a new awareness .........
too the almighty corn jizz that could not be mad made, The sign that lead to my true path to enlightenment and finical reward I thank thee almighty corn jizz
jamesc
12-07-2009, 07:57 PM
ready have
Its be used in the past.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subversion_(doubt)
too keep you natives with your simple tools believing in Aliens,UFO`s astral entity`s etc.....
What's your reasons for SOME crop formations having NO POSSIBILITY AT ALL OF BEING EXTRATRESTIAL IN ORIGIN.As you so kindly pointed out at natives being so in awe of NEW GADGETS/TECHNOLOGY what if the "native DENIAL" is happening to you in regards for SOME UFOs AND CROP FORMATIONS.We are still early in our evolution and to say that NO extrarerstial advanced civilisations could NOT POSSIBLY be responsible for SOME UFOs and crop formations,(these formations are much more than simple circles), is total nonsense and defiantly throwing the baby out with the bath water so to speak.:rolleyes:When some of these formations and UFOs are making the military and some scientists have serious questions to address it can only be that even they are NOT SURE for the origins of these 2 enigmas.Time after timE in Britain UFO investigaters were told that the MOD DID NOT investigate reports of UFOs because they considered them as NOT A THREAT TO NATIONAL SECURITY .:eek:How can objects that can leave and enter British air space AT WILL and in some cases evade even the most advanced air craft NOT BE A THREAT TO NATIONAL SECURITY.They LIED about this and i suspect they are doing the same with SOME of these crop formations.Untill you can PROVE that there is NO POSSIBILITYof advanced extratrestial civilisations possessing advanced technology to account for SOME of these UFOs and crop formations then you are just SURMISING AND GUESSING.The technology at the present on what we know about and have archived so far in our evolution cannot be used to rule out other POSSIBILITIES and POSSIBLE VISITATIONS FROM FAR SUPERIOR INTELLIGENCIES. :cool:
I think there is a thing called harvest festival and probably a history of offerings to the gods etc........Did hoaxes only start this century?
crop circles don`t prove UFO`s or EXTRATRESTIAL life
The ones that are not done by string and a pieces of wood do suggest advanced technology.
You have to ask yourself has man got this capability or is in beyond his means.
unfortunately man does process Microwave technology and advanced targeting equipment....Also they have spent billions on it ether throw Starwars,Non lethal , satellite ect.....
Can the crop circles be done by microwaves? I think they can
so were is your proof in has to be by EXTRATRESTIAL life?
skunksmash
12-07-2009, 08:27 PM
I think there is a thing called harvest festival and probably a history of offerings to the gods etc........Did hoaxes only start this century?
crop circles don`t prove UFO`s or EXTRATRESTIAL life
The ones that are not done by string and a pieces of wood do suggest advanced technology.
You have to ask yourself has man got this capability or is in beyond his means.
unfortunately man does process Microwave technology and advanced targeting equipment....Also they have spent billions on it ether throw Starwars,Non lethal , satellite ect.....
Can the crop circles be done by microwaves? I think they can
so were is your proof in has to be by EXTRATRESTIAL life?
ITS CERTAINLY MICROWAVE TECHNOLOGY......the days of the wood & rope are gone, these little orbs or drones map out the field like a piece of paper in a printer, & they work their way across it like an inkjet.
but i honestly believe its been reverse engineered, i think some early crop formations were real & carried info for us, it would have been so easy for the government to adopt.....
but there may still be a few genuine ones among the black ops creations... but seeing as you need to be a mathametician to decode them (alien origins or man made) who knows which ones they are..??
they look superb whoever is creating them...;)
:)SK
ITS CERTAINLY MICROWAVE TECHNOLOGY......the days of the wood & rope are gone, these little orbs or drones map out the field like a piece of paper in a printer, & they work their way across it like an inkjet.
but i honestly believe its been reverse engineered, i think some early crop formations were real & carried info for us, it would have been so easy for the government to adopt.....
but there may still be a few genuine ones among the black ops creations... but seeing as you need to be a mathametician to decode them (alien origins or man made) who knows which ones they are..??
they look superb whoever is creating them...;)
:)SK
I would say that there is a long history of microwave technology from Tesla, to present day .........
but where did Tesla get his inventions from? I think from his dreams? interesting I think ....I not sure about this
I not going to wounder off in these area of UFO,Alien etc........I have to stick to hard facts and science
jamesc
12-07-2009, 09:26 PM
I think there is a thing called harvest festival and probably a history of offerings to the gods etc........Did hoaxes only start this century?
crop circles don`t prove UFO`s or EXTRATRESTIAL life
The ones that are not done by string and a pieces of wood do suggest advanced technology.
You have to ask yourself has man got this capability or is in beyond his means.
unfortunately man does process Microwave technology and advanced targeting equipment....Also they have spent billions on it ether throw Starwars,Non lethal , satellite ect.....
Can the crop circles be done by microwaves? I think they can
so were is your proof in has to be by EXTRATRESTIAL life?
I am asking you to PROVE that SOME UFOs and CROP FORMATIONS CANNOT POSSIBLY be estraterstial in origin .My main point here is in the POSSIBILITY of this , you are just answering that question with a question . So SOME of all UFOs cannot be or POSSIBLY be extratrestial in origin.How do you know this??PROVE that their is no POSSIBILITY of advanced extratresstial civilisations mimicking to a degree the technology that WE KNOW ABOUT but possessing much more than WE CURRENTLY KNOW OF? To dismiss the POSSIBILITY of some of these formations or UFOs having a extratresstial origin is nothing more than a pure blinkered and arrogant view point of WE KNOW ALL THERE IS TO KNOW OF THIS VAST AND UNDISCOVERED UNIVERSE. PROVE that you know all there is to know about the possibilities that are contained in this universe .:cool::rolleyes:
I can Possibly win the lottery next week If I chose 6 numbers and part with pound.......Many people have won.........
how many UFO have been proved to make crop circles?
i think I will keep my pound and stick to microwaves.
thou I believe I have more chance winning the lottery than seeing any evidence that proves that UFO`s create crop circles.
Why do I have to disprove UFO`s ? or believe the possibility of some be done with UFO`s I have an explanation that stands.
Can you show me any prove to re examine my explanation? or do I have just to believe in the possibility that they are done by UFO`s ?
can you believe in the possibility you been had? and they are not done by UFO`s can you handle that?
clachan
12-07-2009, 11:18 PM
No one knows how these formations come to be,but after reading this thread and other related info. AND am open minded and neutral i do tend to ebb towards human activity. I dont understand advanced technology but i do know what is possible today is bloody scarey !
A friend of mine told me the stealth fighter jet was on the drawing board in the 50,s,i dont know if thats true but if it is then what is in the pipe line today.
I do think given all the evidence i,ve seen that ET,s are here,in fact im sure of it.
One thing for certain,these 2009 formations are created with high tech equipment,not blokes on the ground so something very strange is here for all to see........... at the moment i would bet on microwave or simular tool,but only just,im still open minded.
unfortunately it looks like Ufologist have been used as away to spread disinformation and misinformation for a very long time, All the core people seem to have dodge connections to CIA....unfortunately information takes on a life of its own , think its popular culture to belief in them now.
prier to me getting mind controlled & electronic harassed I would of believed in aliens and the CIA US were hiding this knowledge back....but I realized they are hiding testing of advance technology weapons/aircraft and human experimentation mind control/electronic harassment / implants.
Unfortunately I think there is a whole cottage industry built on UFO mythology,crop circle and similar new age stuff who now have a vested interest.
2 in two days ....why arn`t the militray going nuts choppers flying, Aircraft scrambled....area corded of ....men in black driving around...waiting invasion?:rolleyes:
who elsie
13-07-2009, 12:55 AM
2 in two days ....why arn`t the militray going nuts choppers flying, Aircraft scrambled....area corded of ....men in black driving around...waiting invasion?:rolleyes:
Ooh! you're so sexy when you're confrontational! :D
Unfortunately I think there is a whole cottage industry built on UFO mythology,crop circle and similar new age stuff who now have a vested interest.
I would agree with this, to a large extent. But you could say the same with the whole conspiracy movement too, or with any other subject that involves a degree of mystery. Unfortunately, there's no getting around it. Yes, there are some charlatons out there, but there are a greater number of genuine researchers, who barely scratch a living out of it, but who are prepared to dedicate themselves to a subject they feel passionate about. If you don't believe me, just look at someone like Russell Callaghan. He took over as editor of UFO Magazine after Graham Birdsall died suddenly. This later became UFO Data magazine, which finally went out of business earlier this year. You can read his statement here about the closure and how much it personally cost him to try and keep it afloat - out of pure dedication to the subject http://www.ufodata.co.uk/index1.htm
There are many other examples like this, across the board, including David Icke, who struggled financially for years trying to get his message out. Now, he too, is accused of profiteering out of his subject. It is, of course, nonsense.
Don`t get me wrong I think most people get involved for genuine reason and put a lot of time money and effort in apart from the paid disinformation and there's plenty , but if you don`t realize that you can end being caught in a catch 22.....realizing you been used passing on disinfo , remember the best disinformation agent actual belief the information in the first place.
Also you have to understand how disinformation is created then leaked and spread. How many people with an interest in UFO will go on further and meet other seeming high placed researchers then get contacts and be passed info that seemingly answers their beliefs.
thirdwave
13-07-2009, 01:50 AM
2 in two days ....why arn`t the militray going nuts choppers flying, Aircraft scrambled....area corded of ....men in black driving around...waiting invasion?:rolleyes:
should some of them be created through advanced technology then what can the military do about it?
crop circles appeared years and years ago and framers used to think they were created by demons...
should some of them be created through advanced technology then what can the military do about it?
crop circles appeared years and years ago and framers used to think they were created by demons...
they can stop doing it for start and admit it, then put some controls on this type of technology
clachan
13-07-2009, 08:10 PM
The reason i said in my last post i was sure ET,s are here is simply this....I have seen and read hundreds of witness accounts,OK lots are explainable but many aren,t and some of these testamonies are from well respected people.
Here,s one such story from memory which for some reason stands out,it was a TV interveiw.
A family of 4,Grandmother aged 70ish, Mother and 2 kids aged about 10 & 13 drove from their home one sunday afternoon across moores in northern England.
From no where a large white shinning object appeared in front of the car blocking the road.These 4 normal people all gave their own version of what followed,they were also interveiwed by psychiatrists who said as far as they could tell these people were telling the truth.They had 2hrs missing time and now suffer from serious depression....all of them.
This is just one of thousands of cases,they cannot just be dismissed as fantasy or dilussion, as far as im concerned its beyond reasonable dought,far too much evidence to say " definately no ".
The reason i said in my last post i was sure ET,s are here is simply this....I have seen and read hundreds of witness accounts,OK lots are explainable but many aren,t and some of these testamonies are from well respected people.
Here,s one such story from memory which for some reason stands out,it was a TV interveiw.
A family of 4,Grandmother aged 70ish, Mother and 2 kids aged about 10 & 13 drove from their home one sunday afternoon across moores in northern England.
From no where a large white shinning object appeared in front of the car blocking the road.These 4 normal people all gave their own version of what followed,they were also interveiwed by psychiatrists who said as far as they could tell these people were telling the truth.They had 2hrs missing time and now suffer from serious depression....all of them.
This is just one of thousands of cases,they cannot just be dismissed as fantasy or dilussion, as far as im concerned its beyond reasonable dought,far too much evidence to say " definately no ".
I not seen this account or the people involved but sounds like a MILAB military abduction ....unfortunately peoples belief and preconceived are more likely believe they were abducted by aliens than from military/government agency ....also they will use masks /adapted vehicles high tech / drugs etc to keep up the illusion........ether for some human experimentation(implants etc....) or psyop activity .........
I do believe they will believe they were abducted by Aliens easier to believe and easier for you to be accepted by your culture and folk you know........
start saying its MILAB people start saying why you and throw you in the nut house and call you delusional
think about it they have stuck alsorts of inmplants in monkeys .....how long before humans were going to be involved? whos going to volunteer? how could they do it legally? think about how much the damages would be if something went wrong ? plus get the ethical political a provable...and I am talking 30 odd years ago.
all you do is look at operation paper clip and realize these natzi fucks just moved and carried on
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip
in fact MKultra the MK is from the German name for mind control >Mind Kontrolle
romas
13-07-2009, 11:01 PM
they can stop doing it for start and admit it, then put some controls on this type of technology
Oh and stop wars in middle east and admit 9/11 and stop bailing out their wanker st. friends etc. etc. I mean who are you kidding?
You can extrapolate based on your views all day, it's still your view and it doesn't look like you can prove it being any better than the LGM theory.
http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/2009/eastfield/eastfield2_25_OH.jpg
Simply stuning! Yes, I've been eagerly awaiying another basket-weave formation, since that one incredible formation a few years ago. It's been a long wait, but worth it! :)
Now, please tell me how that effect was acheived through board stomping or by using prosaic military technology from space!
"Micro"wave is the size of a period dot "." they are that precise they could bend each individual stalk!:rolleyes:
Also radar is that precise that they can track and target multiple targets similar than a cricket ball travailing fast at a distance
http://www.fas.org/irp/imint/docs/rst/Intro/em_spect.jpg
http://www.baesystems.com/Newsroom/NewsReleases/2007/autoGen_1071515558.html
The SAMPSON system is the first of a new generation of multi-function radar that provides surveillance, target tracking and missile guidance information for the MBDA Principal Anti-Air Missile System (PAAMS) that will be the main armament of the Royal Navy’s Type 45 destroyers. This air defence system is so advanced it can track and hit a target the size of a cricket ball travelling three times the speed of sound.
I am waiting for the day they can remotely harvest the cereal, turn it weetobix, then beam it to my bowl ready for me in the morning:D(think I pass on the thought control robotic arm to spoon it my mouth thou)
Well a least I don`t mind them creating types of basket cases ;)
obviously they are using a layered mask effect and several passes to create a weave effect
still impressive thou
phildee3
14-07-2009, 10:01 PM
Deca,
Although I have no doubt that the military establishment have the technology to make even the most elaborate formations, and would even go so far as to say that they are likely to have used it, the question remains - why would they make so many of them and why would they choose the themes that they have?
thirdwave
14-07-2009, 11:54 PM
"Micro"wave is the size of a period dot "." they are that precise they could bend each individual stalk!:rolleyes:
Also radar is that precise that they can track and target multiple targets similar than a cricket ball travailing fast at a distance
http://www.fas.org/irp/imint/docs/rst/Intro/em_spect.jpg
http://www.baesystems.com/Newsroom/NewsReleases/2007/autoGen_1071515558.html
I am waiting for the day they can remotely harvest the cereal, turn it weetobix, then beam it to my bowl ready for me in the morning:D(think I pass on the thought control robotic arm to spoon it my mouth thou)
Well a least I don`t mind them creating types of basket cases ;)
obviously they are using a layered mask effect and several passes to create a weave effect
still impressive thou
lol
ahh well, you have proven the technology exists!
but, we have kind of got that :). As that is the whole point is people saying they are not all made by men with planks of wood.
the hurdle you seem to ignore is being able to contemplate the possibility that some of them may have been created by people not of this planet... or dimension... or that we have actually learnt from their technology.
and as much as you post here, you have never posted anything that proves we are the only ones around.
you keep saying the UFOs are a destruction... for what?
swine flu?... the credit crunch?
I would say there are other things taking the head lines :)
while the PTB are clearly interacting with this and playing there part as you would expect... there is still no logic in your argument.
and you ignore the fact that crop circles used to appear before the engine was created.
what are the elite waiting for?... with there power, there coverage... why are us guys having such a hard time trying to get people to open their minds?... why is it not easy?...
phildee3
15-07-2009, 12:56 AM
why are us guys having such a hard time trying to get people to open their minds?... why is it not easy?...
Maybe by "trying" you're having the opposite effect.
People resist change from without.
We all change from within -
in our own time.
Deca,
Although I have no doubt that the military establishment have the technology to make even the most elaborate formations, and would even go so far as to say that they are likely to have used it, the question remains - why would they make so many of them and why would they choose the themes that they have?
why would Aliens UFO or other???....even more ridiculous.
I think I have posted a few reasons why the military would do.
think about it its not different to bombers dropping propaganda leaflets
After all its the war of hearts and minds .........:cool:
lol
ahh well, you have proven the technology exists!
but, we have kind of got that :). As that is the whole point is people saying they are not all made by men with planks of wood.
the hurdle you seem to ignore is being able to contemplate the possibility that some of them may have been created by people not of this planet... or dimension... or that we have actually learnt from their technology.
and as much as you post here, you have never posted anything that proves we are the only ones around.
you keep saying the UFOs are a destruction... for what?
swine flu?... the credit crunch?
I would say there are other things taking the head lines :)
while the PTB are clearly interacting with this and playing there part as you would expect... there is still no logic in your argument.
and you ignore the fact that crop circles used to appear before the engine was created.
what are the elite waiting for?... with there power, there coverage... why are us guys having such a hard time trying to get people to open their minds?... why is it not easy?...
the hurdle you seem to ignore is being able to contemplate the possibility that some of them may have been created by people not of this planet... or dimension... or that we have actually learnt from their technology.
Er no I just don`t see any evidence that suggest that man made technology could not make these? show me a crop circle that a man made technology could not have made?
As I said before there is a long history of microwave technology being developed? from Tesla to present ....thou its remained in the dark or black projects the DEW(direct energy weapons) and the capability is being kept quite as well as spy satellites , hAARP etc.........
and as much as you post here, you have never posted anything that proves we are the only ones around.
I believe they could be Alien life forms on other planets ET, other dimensions ghosts etc....I have an open mind about the subject, I just have not seen any real evidence of it...I more concerned about these black projects that they have spent hundreds of billions on !!!!! developing advance technology.
and you ignore the fact that crop circles used to appear before the engine was created.
No i did not , you not read the all the thread I mentioned Harvest festival , and offerings to the gods.....Think man has had string and wood for a long time or did aliens have to teach him that too.....
Is there any evidence that crop circles in the past are done by anybody else than man?
what are the elite waiting for?... with there power, there coverage... why are us guys having such a hard time trying to get people to open their minds?... why is it not easy?...
Thirdwave you clearly believe in UFO`s and Aliens ect, great....
Just because crop circles a probably man made does not prove UFO`s and Aliens etc don`t exist ok
But if you believe in UFO`s and Aliens etc because of crop circles I would look again , because you`v been had.
phildee3
15-07-2009, 12:01 PM
why would Aliens UFO or other???
Quite.
I don't think that any one source is responsible for them all.
That is the most rediculous claim, imo.
I think that both the military and "aliens" are only responsible for a few,
and neither of them for the "genuine" ones.
Quite.
I don't think that any one source is responsible for them all.
That is the most rediculous claim, imo.
I think that both the military and "aliens" are only responsible for a few,
and neither of them for the "genuine" ones.
Sorry I am not going to argue with somebody's "belief"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belief
Belief is the psychological state in which an individual holds a proposition or premise to be true
Belief, knowledge and epistemology
The relationship between belief and knowledge is subtle. Believers in a claim typically say that they know that claim. For instance, those who believe that the Sun is a god will often report that they know that the Sun is a god. However, the terms belief and knowledge are used differently by philosophers. It is a telling point concerning the nature of belief that most people distinguish between what they know and what they believe, even though they consider both kinds of statements to be true.
Epistemology is the philosophical study of knowledge and belief. The primary problem in epistemology is to understand exactly what is needed in order for us to have knowledge. In a notion derived from Plato's dialogue Theaetetus, philosophy has traditionally defined knowledge as justified true belief. The relationship between belief and knowledge is that a belief is knowledge if the belief is true, and if the believer has a justification (reasonable and necessarily plausible assertions/evidence/guidance) for believing it is true.
A false belief is not considered to be knowledge, even if it is sincere. A sincere believer in the flat earth theory does not know that the Earth is flat. Similarly, a truth that nobody believes is not knowledge, because in order to be knowledge, there must be some person who knows it.
Later epistemologists[who?] have questioned the "justified true belief" definition, and some philosophers[who?] have questioned whether "belief" is a useful notion at all.
Beliefs are the assumptions we make about ourselves, about others in the world and about how we expect things to be.
Beliefs are also how we think things really are.
sorry to be a party pooper but if you had microwave technology beamed over your house and weaving your mind then you should understand way I get pissed at people that sit around pondering the possibility`s and don`t help change the actual`s
Exposing crop circles done via microwave technology might help to expose the abuse of technology on me and others.
thirdwave
15-07-2009, 12:44 PM
Er no I just don`t see any evidence that suggest that man made technology could not make these? show me a crop circle that a man made technology could not have made?
No one has said this could not be the case :) , I mean, there is no evidence that man does have the technology to make these formations... but I believe its likely.
they simply believe its also Possible (given the nature of the the technology) that other forces could also be at work.
As I said before there is a long history of microwave technology being developed? from Tesla to present ....thou its remained in the dark or black projects the DEW(direct energy weapons) and the capability is being kept quite as well as spy satellites , hAARP etc.........
I do not believe we had this technology in the days of Tesla.... I don't know, no... but you have not got a speck of evidence to prove that they did have this technology back then, you dont even have it for now.... and also crop circles appeared long before Tesla.... the Farmers used to have there crops blessed by priests because they though demons were at work..
I believe they could be Alien life forms on other planets ET, other dimensions ghosts etc....I have an open mind about the subject, I just have not seen any real evidence of it...
Yes you have :).. its just you work very hard to try and make out they are liars or miss lead... we have ancient accounts of UFOs, we have thousands of abduction reports... of all different kinds.. many with the same scenario's... (I have known a girl and her bf who were abducted...) many times they can find physical evidence....
if its all propaganda then why have a few of these reports not regularly made it in the papers? ... other than the odd small box at the bottom of a free metro paper...
not to mention thousands of UFO sightings, of air craft moving at impossible speeds... many crash site cover ups all over the world, some of which including witnesses claiming to have see ETE bodies at the site...
because there have been cover up stories (which there would) you discount the claims... even though the cover up stories normally change to suit their cause... a familiar pattern we see with the elite and their cover ups.
What is it you would need as proof to open the lid on this while the elite are clearly trying to control it?
there is more chance that the theories you have dug up are NWO propaganda than there is of the reality or ETEs being around...
there has always been more of an effort to cover these things up than to expose them.... as time has gone on admittedly it has grown, but one must keep into account it cant be an easy thing to hide.
I more concerned about these black projects that they have spent hundreds of billions on !!!!! developing advance technology.
of course, this is very relevant, I'm not sure why you think because some believe ETEs are around, they are not bothered about what the secret military are up to.... of course it is a big concern what they are doing.... and the power they have.
No i did not , you not read the all the thread I mentioned Harvest festival , and offerings to the gods.....Think man has had string and wood for a long time or did aliens have to teach him that too.....
Is there any evidence that crop circles in the past are done by anybody else than man?
Well in those days for new to spread it had to be pretty shit hot... no phone.. no internet... and for the farmers to imply demons done it... then again there is no reason to believe it was men with planks of wood.... and again no report of any of them getting caught, which would have been serious business back then... there are no history reports of men getting caught with planks crushing farmers crops to make patterns...
there are however reports of Farmers thinking demons were fucking with their crops.
Thirdwave you clearly believe in UFO`s and Aliens ect, great....
Well of course, earth is not the only planet in the universe, and we can see that technology has the sky as the limit... you your self show what we here oin earth can do in such a relativity small time....
what are the chances of beings out there who have another 500.000 years under their belt?
Just because crop circles a probably man made does not prove UFO`s and Aliens etc don`t exist ok
Very true.... I do not believe very crop circle is an ETE phenomena... I think its a very big picture... I believe that very few are made by other life .... I think most are made by men with planks, some out of inspiration, others for a smear campaign.... and I believe many are made by the Secret military.... although I think this has been fairly recent in the story.
What I don't get, is if you believe ETEs could exist.... and you strongly believe we (man) has the technology to create these crop circles.... then why do you not believe ETEs could have done some?
But if you believe in UFO`s and Aliens etc because of crop circles I would look again , because you`v been had.
No I have always believed they are around... I always found it quite odd when people laugh at the idea... a bit eary actually..
and I believe Crop circles would be quite a subtle and practical method for them to get our attention.
I do not believe that our government have been slowly trying to make people believe in ETEs for the last 70 or so years..... at least not out of choice.
http://www.ufos-aliens.co.uk/secretufos.htm
This 2 hour television programme set out to solve some of the great UFO mysteries, perhaps even provide a catch-all explanation for the whole field of Ufology. 'UFOs: The Secret Evidence' was written and presented by journalist Nick Cook, who has been an aviation editor and aerospace consultant for the world-renowned trade publication "Jane's Defence Weekly". His impeccable credentials might suggest a rather stuffy approach to the subject, but Nick Cook actually brings with him a down-to-earth, common sense approach which is refreshing. His stance on UFOs seems open-minded and objective. He also manages to gain interviews with some very intriguing individuals from the aerospace and intelligence fields.
The programme started by asserting that UFO reports began during the Second World War. This is an incorrect assertion, unfortunately, ignoring a wealth of historical evidence dating back centuries. Still, it's probably fair to say that the first official military reports on the subject were generated in the 1940s, and that is the focus of Nick's investigation. He tackled the phenomenon of the 'Foo Fighters' reported by airmen during WWII and, with John Dering (a senior scientist at SARA), considered the possibility that the Nazis were sending up prototype Unmanned Aerial Vehicles which were "reusable"!
A bizarre technological artefact known as 'the Fly Trap' was visited, and the theory that it was a test-rig for Nazi flying saucers was discussed. This was in the context of a secret Nazi underground base where derro-like scientists played with glowing bell-shaped devices which seemed to defy gravity. This was research which led to the death of several scientists, allegedly.
Brigadier General Roger Ramey and Colonel Thomas J. BuBose with the Roswell 'wreakage'Then we moved onto the Roswell incident, via the infamous U.S. defence programme to incorporate Nazi scientists into sensitive research areas (like White Sands Missile Range), known as Operation Paperclip. The Roswell incident resulted, it was alleged, from a top secret defence programme known as 'Sky Hook', which sent up advanced surveillance balloons. Its flight path took it over Roswell, and when one crashed the UFO story was sprung to hide the truth about 'Sky Hook' from the Soviets.
This is a running theme throughout Nick Cook's thesis. Whatever the truth behind the wider phenomenon, the subject was used mercilessly by intelligence agencies in the psychological war with the Soviet Union. This occurred to such an extent that UFOs became part of American culture for a long while; as a propaganda instrument UFOs were unrivalled in their success, it was claimed. Not only that, but the U.S. then used UFO flaps as a means to track the progress of their experimental craft.
It all sounds like those clever military intelligence people had their finger on the pulse all along! This rose-tinted view of UFO history, US of A-style, was backed up by various characters from the Intelligence field interviewed by Nick Cook, who all smiled knowingly as they openly revealed the deepest secrets of military intelligence to the public. "We suckered you all, you fools!" they arrogantly insinuated. But this version of history runs against the grain of the U.S. Government's public panic over the subject at the time, as revealed in various memos that have come to light.
After the death of the brutal Soviet premier Joseph Stalin, the CIA upped the ante, using UFOs as a propaganda tool to cover up the top secret flights of the U2 spy-plane over the Soviet Union. It didn't work, of course, because the Soviets shot one down. One would have expected the UFO phenomenon to stop dead in its tracks at that point. But, no, on it went, cruelly ignoring the whole CIA/Propaganda theory.
So various other aerospace oddities are wheeled out of their hangers to shock and amaze us. Like the 'Avro Car', and the 'Silver Bug'. There is something to be said for the idea that sightings of UFOs at or near sensitive aerospace research establishments might just have something to do with what's going on there. Policeman Lonnie Zamora might have seen a 'Silver Bug', or a downed prototype Sampler destined for the Moon, next to White Sands, for instance.
The Russians certainly seemed to be well and truly hooked on UFOs, with Andropov ordering the Red Army to watch the skies, which they did dutifully for 13 years. But the canny Russians would have known that the Americans liked to regularly risk their young pilots on surveillance missions across Soviet territory, despite already having spy satellite technology quite sufficient for the task. There's more to all this than meets the eye. Yes, Stealth aircraft undoubtedly contributed to UFO sightings. But that's not the whole story.
And Nick Cook seems to realise that too. The first hint of that came when watching the uncomfortable reaction of British sceptics Andy Roberts and Dave Clarke to his gentle questioning. They were not amongst friends, one could judge. Then his appraisal of the eye-witness account of pilot Tom Hanley, who described the incredible manoeuvring capability of an unidentified flying object darting around his reconnaissance aircraft, seemed to open up greater potentials than the US military dangerously interfering with its own advanced aircraft.
The 1952 flap over Washington D.C. also brought about a pause for thought. Nick Cook is not a dyed-in-the-wool sceptic by any means.
He then tackled subsidiary subjects, like cattle mutilations across stretches of the continental USA. He concluded that these were covert missions carried out by military agents using helicopters and field-based surgical equipment, to monitor contamination levels of some kind. It would have been easier to just buy some cattle and then take body parts to the lab for analysis, I'd have thought. But ten out of ten for style, that's for sure.
Then there was the alien abduction phenomenon, which is a massive subject in its own right. Nick Cook looked at the Travis Walton case, including an excellent interview with the man himself. No explanation was forthcoming, except for a generalised gloss over the experiences of the Contactees some years before. Perhaps to try to indict the U.S. Government in human experiments against the will, or knowledge, of the victims involved, was a step too far for Cook. The U.S. Government's dismissive contempt for the great, impoverished mass of its own people has been clear to see for many years, most recently noted during the Hurricane Katrina debacle. So it's possible, surely?
'UFOs: The Secret Evidence" wound up with a look at satellite photographs showing contrails from an unidentified craft which flew halfway across the globe at 8000mph. 'Aurora' was the modern UFO par excellence, it seems. But however fast these things get, the fact remains that the difficulty with identifying many UFOs lies in their bizarre patterns of manoeuvrability. If the Nazis created the Foo Fighters back in the 1940s, then why the heck are we still flying around in fixed wing aircraft 60 years later? It all seems so unlikely. Yes, UFOs were a wonderful cover story to hide black projects behind, but the black projects in themselves do not completely solve the UFO problem. Not by a long chalk. In the end, Nick Cook seemed to agree.
sorry posted the wrong info this seems to try to debunk the program
so I post the video make your own mind up
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-834605691449249469&ei=iLhdSs2wKpvp-AaswOwm&q=UFOs+The+Secret+Evidence
I have problems with this my self with alien abductions....does not mention MILAB or mind control
what you can`t deny is that they have used UFO phenomenon as propaganda and disinformation
Thirdwave what actually research have you done it UFO`s?
thirdwave
15-07-2009, 01:42 PM
I have problems with this my self with alien abductions....does not mention MILAB or mind control
what you can`t deny is that they have used UFO phenomenon as propaganda and disinformation
Thirdwave what actually research have you done it UFO`s?
What do you mean what I cant deny is the disinformation?
I am going by the public.... what the people experience... not what some government project talked about on some website , why cant that be propaganda?
there have been ex military and government talk of ETE cover up... so that is official... what makes your stuff any more official or true?
I have no doubt the MSM and government will spin things how they want to spin them as they always do, but there is no logical explanation as to why they are pretending ETEs are here....
you cant generalise the abduction cases as there are different kinds... people being abducted and not been seen missing, happening over night.... physical evidence found with no broken skin tissue.. two people at once..so on..
What research have I done?... it is not my main focus of research but I have done enough to known what is put out there... and I find the stuff like MILABS .. MK ULTRA... although interesting, no more tangible than any UFO or ETE story, and they are probably both true... What research have you done?
No one knows the whole truth, me nor you.. I personally believe they have been making a big effort to cover all this up for a long time, and are approaching a position where they may not be able to, and have got them selves in a pickle as to how to explain how they have lied for the last 70 or so years...
MK ULTRA has been admitted and people paid compensation, but the true extent of the program has been covered up , documents have been destroyed its not conspiracy but fact ok
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKULTRA
Project MK-ULTRA, or MKULTRA, was the code name for a covert CIA mind-control and chemical interrogation research program, run by the Office of Scientific Intelligence. The program began in the early 1950s, continuing at least through the late 1960s, and it used United States citizens as its test subjects.[1][2][3] The published evidence indicates that Project MK-ULTRA involved the surreptitious use of many types of drugs, as well as other methods, to manipulate individual mental states and to alter brain function.
Project MK-ULTRA was first brought to wide public attention in 1975 by the U.S. Congress, through investigations by the Church Committee, and by a presidential commission known as the Rockefeller Commission. Investigative efforts were hampered by the fact that CIA Director Richard Helms ordered all MK-ULTRA files destroyed in 1973; the Church Committee and Rockefeller Commission investigations relied on the sworn testimony of direct participants and on the relatively small number of documents that survived Helms' destruction order.[4]
Although the CIA insists that MK-ULTRA-type experiments have been abandoned, 14-year CIA veteran Victor Marchetti has stated in various interviews that the CIA routinely conducts disinformation campaigns and that CIA mind control research continued. In a 1977 interview, Marchetti specifically called the CIA claim that MK-ULTRA was abandoned a "cover story."[5][6]
On the Senate floor in 1977, Senator Ted Kennedy said:
The Deputy Director of the CIA revealed that over thirty universities and institutions were involved in an "extensive testing and experimentation" program which included covert drug tests on unwitting citizens "at all social levels, high and low, native Americans and foreign." Several of these tests involved the administration of LSD to "unwitting subjects in social situations." At least one death, that of Dr. Olson, resulted from these activities. The Agency itself acknowledged that these tests made little scientific sense. The agents doing the monitoring were not qualified scientific observers.[7]
To this day most specific information regarding Project MKULTRA remains highly classified information.[citation needed]
hmm when was the first "alien" abduction reported after 1960 by any chance?
honestly I have just goggled this my self after writing the above statement......easy when you know what you are looking for
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_abduction
The first alien abduction narrative to be widely publicized was the Betty and Barney Hill abduction in 1961.[5]
thirdwave
15-07-2009, 02:11 PM
MK ULTRA has been admitted and people paid compensation, but the true extent of the program has been covered up , documents have been destroyed its not conspiracy but fact ok
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKULTRA
hmm when was the first "alien" abduction reported after 1960 by any chance?
Actually no... it was the late 50s and early 60s that cases where noted and had a certain amount of attention drawn to, though many years before then there was stories that came out and reported cases... going way back.
I mean there have been so many reports of beings found through altered states and UFOs...
in 1918 A Crowley claimed to have interacted with a being he called "Lam"
here..
http://www.boudillion.com/lam/Lam.jpg
honestly I have just goggled this my self after writing the above statement......easy when you know what you are looking for
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_abduction
I have also researched it and my info is also available.
I not arsed about drug induced hallucinations........or UFO`s but crimes against humanity ok done by criminals ....and I dont need MIB......because I know what that means not "men in black" but "mind invading bastards" ok
thirdwave
15-07-2009, 02:40 PM
I not arsed about drug induced hallucinations ........or UFO`s Well I did not say anything bout drug induced in my previous posts, however drug induced halluninatons can still be relevent and im not sure why you want to disregard them... and UFOs are a massive relevance, as they were spotted during WW2 .. and can quite easily travel in space.
but crimes against humanity ok done by criminals ....and I dont need MIB......because I know what that means not "men in black" but "mind invading bastards" ok
Well you are talking about a separate issue... there are many many issues going on, from Sexual child abuse, to financial corruption making people starve to death in poverty... and the list goes on and on...
what is important is people see through the false picture of reality they are presented with so all these injustices can be brought to light and faced up to.
If someone finds out that the government/military have been lying their asses off to us for the last 70 or so years, I fail to see how this is going to cover anything else up... I think it will totally make people ask more questions and look at things like MKU are so on...
I am just not sure why you seem to feel you have all the facts... the fact is, is that it is totally possible that there are ETEs present in our atmosphere and even our planet... and if this is true and been kept from us, the I fail to see why this also is not important.
http://www.geocities.com/area51/hollow/8827/timcoop.html
Source: Majestic 12 Reports by Tim Cooper
http://home.sprintmail.com/~rigoletto/tim_cooper_documents.html
RESEARCH SYNOPSIS ON THE MAJESTIC DOCUMENTS
By
Timothy S. Cooper
Private Investigator
P.O. Box 1206
Big Bear Lake, CA 92315
909-878-5929
tim4801@sprynet.com
December 30, 1999
OVERVIEW
In as much as the controversy surrounding the authenticity of
the Majestic documents has generated in the last fifteen years
among researchers, much evidence in the form of officially
released documents through the Freedom of Information Act has
either been ignored, or viewed as uninteresting by ufologists.
In this synopsis, I argue the theory that FOIA documents in the
public domain are the remnants of a high level UFO intelligence
and psychological warfare program of the United States
Government which began in 1946 and the Majestic documents
reflect what might be a overt part of such a program. I also
present documented proof that General Walter B.Smith, Director
of Central Intelligence was the first DCI to preside over and
coordinate all intelligence collection and dissemination
functions of the U.S. intelligence community where UFOs played
into psychological and intelligence operations in protecting
U.S. strategic interests.
Contrary to popular belief, a coordinated program of UFO
intelligence collection between the military and central
intelligence began with General Hoyt S. Vandenberg in 1946 and
was never properly implemented during Rear Admiral Roscoe
Hillenkoetter’s tenure as first Director of the Central
Intelligence Agency due to the infighting between RH and the
Intelligence Advisory Board (IAB) dominated by high level
military intelligence and State Department officials and did
not begin until WBS was appointed DCI in October 1950. Also,
given the fact that there may have been more than one Majestic
project operating at two different levels, one conducted by the
State Department and another by the CIA, it is possible that
what researchers have studied is a hybrid mixture of both. I
propose that the questionable documents known as Majestic or
MJ-12 are extrapolations from covert and overt intelligence and
psychological material that may have once existed but have long
since been absorbed into today’s unacknowledged black programs
and are now gone forever.
In summary, the Majestic documents are, in all probability, an
attempt by an informed person(s) to reconstruct for researchers
a historical narrative based on non-existent and authentic
documents supported by published facts with classic
disinformation techniques in what is termed in
counterintelligence parlance as "gray" intelligence. The
question of whether they are genuine, authentic or real is not
the issue here. The important point to keep in mind, as I
believe, is the information contained in the documents
themselves. For in these documents and the FOIA material
already released, and the published facts contain the answers
we all seek. The truth may be found in our individual
perceptions.
HISTORICAL PERSPECTIVE
Operational interest began in 1942 with General Donovan as
Collector of Information (COI) and later Director of the Office
of Strategic Services (OSS) who enjoyed direct access to
President Roosevelt. OSS later came under the Joint Chiefs of
Staff (JCS) and in 1943 became militarized with a psychological
warfare mission including counterintelligence, scientific
intelligence, and covert warfare. It was General George C.
Marshall and General Joseph McNarney who sorted out the OSS
mission in 1942 and got Roosevelt’s approval.
Intelligence on German advanced weapons and technical experts
was the focus of the OSS during and after WW II, but
bureaucrats tried to get everyone else to agree on some kind of
standard definition—doctrine—for "psychological warfare." For
obvious reasons, it was left undefined.
After the OSS was disestablished, General Vandenberg kept the
capability alive under a psywar rubric for ten months while
Director of the Central Intelligence Group (CIG) and rebuilt
the organization. As Chief of Staff of the United States Air
Force during the Korean War Vandenberg built up a staff and an
operational psywar capability he wed that military capability
to the CIA which was a new experience in the U.S. intelligence
community—something Donovan could not accomplish in the OSS.
The only authorizing documents were National Security Council
directives 10/2 and 68 which were general and non-specific with
the rule that if you can be successful on the ground, then
history can’t detect one’s tracks and the rest is history.
As for flying saucers (later designated unidentified flying
objects in 1949) General Charles P. Cabell, Director of Air
Force Intelligence reorganized its investigation Project GRUDGE
to test the hypothesis by subjecting the UFO intelligence data
to rigorous scrutiny of the Feynman method. In 1952, Cabell
further enlarged the UFO intelligence collection in Project
BLUE BOOK based on the GRUDGE model with recommendations that
results be used for psychological warfare applications against
the USSR. GRUDGE conclusions stated that the Air Force’s
"Psychological Warfare Division and other government agencies
interested in psychological warfare should be informed of the
results of this study." The "other" agencies included the
psychological warfare unit at Ft. Riley, Kansas, established in
June 1947, Department of State as designated by President
Truman to coordinate all U.S. psychological warfare known as
the "Bartlett Committee" authorized by NSC 4 of 19 December
1947. Secretary of Defense James Forrestal who incorporated a
secret annex to NSC 4 which directed the DCI to supplement the
overt with covert psychological warfare, and the CIA's
Directorate of Operations which carried out Forrestal's annex.
In 1947, General Eisenhower sent a memorandum to his Assistant
Chief of Staff for Plans and Operations (WDGS/G-3) wherein
Eisenhower indicated his desire that the War Department "take
those steps…necessary to keep alive the arts of psychological
warfare and of cover and deception and that there should
continue in being a nucleus of personnel capable of handling
these arts in case an emergency arises" (19 June 1947, RG319,
Army Operations, P&O 091.412, NARA). In September 1947, Lt.
General Albert C. Wedemeyer became Army G-3 who responded to
Eisenhower’s urging in various ways over the next year. In the
spring of 1951 the General School at Ft. Riley offered a
seven-week PW course and in the autumn of 1952 a formal Army PW
service school was established at Ft. Bragg with an additional
seventeen-week course of instruction and training.
In September 1947, Lt. General Albert C. Wedemeyer returned to
the United States after his China and Korea mission and became
the Army G-3 who responded to Eisenhower’s urging initiated a
psychological warfare strategy plan for 1949 war plans (a major
problem since there was no formal planning for PW training). In
April 1950, President Truman personally approved the creation
of the Psychological Warfare Strategy Board (PWSB). High
officials of the War Department and the Army who actively
promoted the immediate post-war development of PW starting in
1946 through 1950 included:
Secretary of the Army, the Honorable Kenneth Royall
Secretary of War, the Honorable Robert Patterson
Assistant Secretary of the Army, the Honorable Gordon Gray
Chief of Staff and General of the Army, Dwight D. Eisenhower
Lt. General Albert C. Wedemeyer, USA
Brigadier General Robert McClure, USA
Lt. General J. Lawton Collins, USA
Major General Charles Bolte, USA
Undersecretary of War, the Honorable William Draper
Major General Stephen Chamberlain, USA (G-2)
The OSS drafted the first "Basic Estimate of the Psychological
Warfare Situation" in 1942 and the Army drafted the first
"National Psychological Plan for General War" in September 1951
(which supported the State Department’s "Russian Plan.") The
USAF officially established a PW staff in February 1948 and
drafted "Special Plans" through 1949; by early 1951, the Air
Force had launched a major PW operation closely coupled with PW
operations of the CIA.
As the GRUDGE report points out, sightings of flying saucers in
the U.S. reached their crescendo in June 1947. This is the same
month and year in which Eisenhower directed the WDGS/G-3 to
maintain a psychological warfare and counterintelligence
directorate capability; in which the first post-war Army
experimental (prototype) PW tactical unit was activated at Fort
Riley and in which the Army Ground General School started an
extension (correspondence) training course for Army Reserve
intelligence specialists in psychological warfare (the late
P.J. Corso claims he saw an alien life form and flying saucer
parts temporarily stored at Fort Riley on 6 July, 1947).
Co-author W.J. Birnes stated in a private conversation with
Corso, that the Fort Riley material came exclusively from Corso
(it should be noted that Corso was a staff officer of the
Psychological Warfare Board during the Eisenhower
Administration).
There are other PW implications buried in the GRUDGE report.
One of them is that the RAND Corporation consulting report to
Project GRUDGE of 1948 by Dr. J.E. Lipp carefully examined the
ETH saying, in effect, that at the time the only known
technology of space travel would be rockets and that "a trip
from another star system requires improvements of propulsion
that we have not yet considered." The problem here, as I see
it, the questioned Majestic documents discuss both fission—or
fusion—based power plants of a downed, recovered UFO in 1947?
Is NEPA a coincidence and does it explain a connection? In
1947, NEPA conceived a viable fission—based power source for a
nuclear—powered aircraft but had not yet constructed a
prototype power source. Dr. Lipp assumed, for argument’s sake,
that Martians may have developed a nuclear, hydrogen—propelled
vehicle as the most efficient basic arrangement yet conceived
by Earthlings. He wrote that in principle a large part of the
Martian’s nuclear material mass might be converted into jet
energy but that Earthlings "have no idea how to do this" and
"that the materials required to withstand the temperature…may
be fundamentally unattainable." The implication of this
1947—1948 state—of—the—art is, that no one at that time would
recognize it for what it might otherwise be neither a nuclear
power plant in a crashed spaceship nor any more exotic power
plant, including one not based on any reaction mass.
About three years after the GRUDGE report was disseminated to
other agencies with an interest in PW, in 1952 technical people
of the CIA began interacting closely with the Air Force's
Project GRUDGE successor, Project BLUE BOOK as CIA/OSI was
closely embracing BLUE BOOK by August 1952. A detailed
memorandum from CIA/OSI to DCI of 24 September, 1952 reviewed
the Air Force’s AMC/ATIC work in ufology and discussed the UFO
phenomenon for U.S. national security in "a situation of
international tension," but two months after the Korean War
armistice. This memorandum, originally classified, was
declassified in 1978. It states that UFO implications for U.S.
national security consist of two parts:
The then inability of U.S. air defenses to distinguish
"hardware from phantom", i.e., false air raid warning,
especially the identification of real (Soviet) air attack as a
phantom (this had happened at least once during the Korean War
on 6 December, 1950).
The psychological implication which had to do with whether or
not the Soviet Union or the U.S. might be able to manipulate
the UFO phenomenon "from a psychological warfare point of
view" as based on controlling and predicting it both
defensively and offensively. This memorandum went on to
recommend that the "United States psychological warfare
planners" determine what use could be made of the UFO
phenomenon against the Soviet Union.
An earlier CIA memorandum of 1 August, 1952 to OSI from one of
its divisions (Weapons and Equipment) said that a large
percentage of ATIC (BLUE BOOK) UFO reports "are clearly
‘phony’."
Basically, the CIA/OSI—DCI memorandum of 24 September, 1952
said the same thing about UFOs and PW as did the Project GRUDGE
report of three years earlier, i.e., that the UFO phenomenon
had a lot of psychological aspects that would allow it to be
manipulated for Cold War PW purposes and benefits.
In any case, it was this CIA/OSI collaboration with the Air
Force PW operations directly led to the DCI referring to the
U.S. Psychological Warfare Board (the covert operations
committee of the Truman NSC) the subject of PW while also
directly leading the CIA to formulate and execute the so—called
"Robertson Panel" of January 1953. The Robertson Panel’s report
basically confirmed the work of CIA/OSI. The initial PSB’s
principals were; the DCI (chairman); the Undersecretary of
State (James Webb, later Administrator of NASA in the Kennedy
Administration); the Deputy Secretary of Defense (Robert A.
Lovett, later a special advisor to President Kennedy) and a
small, functional staff directed by former Assistant Army
Secretary, the Honorable Gordon Gray.
CIA AND COUNTER INTELLIGENCE
The CIA was assigned by the Eisenhower Administration the task
of preparing a proposed plan of action. Upon executive
approval, CIA became responsible for its execution. General
Charles P. Cabell as DDCI established a policy "that if a
function was susceptible of more efficient fulfillment on a
centralized basis for all three Services" opted for
centralization. To make this work, DCI brought in James J.
Angelton in 1954 to head up a secret department within CIA
known as Counter Intelligence (CI). The activities and function
of Angelton was largely unknown in CIA and had direct access to
Allan W. Dulles. Angelton was a rouge who did not abide by
normal procedures and enjoyed plausible denial protection and
kept CIA involvement in UFO/PW operations away from public
knowledge until 1978. For twenty years, JJA was in charge of
the CIA’s Counter Intelligence Staff and legendary mole hunter.
His role was not revealed until 1968, fifteen years after he
had assumed his post. His main task was to prevent other
countries from learning the secrets of the United States. In
1952, Angelton had assumed a top position in the agency’s
clandestine directorate guiding and controlling covert
operations. To make CI effective Cabell wedded the military to
CIA covert and overt operations by providing personnel to the
CIA/CI. To broaden the base of DDCI, Cabell made JJA his
liaison to the armed services.
Another point to consider in CIA/CI was the relationship
between Allan Dulles and his brother John Foster Dulles who was
Secretary of State during Allan’s tenure as DCI and this
relationship contributed to "maximum effectiveness" as Cabell
states in his memoirs. As Director of CI, Angelton employed the
services of CIA Project MK-ULTRA and other mind control methods
to protect the CIA/UFO/PW agenda against Soviet double agents
who came into CI custody. Angelton also had solid connections
to the National Security Agency and possessed NSA HUMINT files
from allied intelligence on JFK’s "SAPPHIRE" letter to French
President Charles de Gualle which may have contributed to
Kennedy’s murder in 1963. I suspect that JJA supplied Dulles
NSA phone intercepts, coordinated State Department back channel
information regarding PW operations that embarrassed President
Eisenhower with disclosures that Kennedy was eroding his
presidency and Nixon’s covert aims at running the White House.
TRUMAN AND COVERT OPERATIONS
In 1952, President Truman had effectively created national
security statecraft through the National Security Act of 1947
and overt and covert policy through the CIA and NSA was in
place when he met with president—elect Eisenhower to the White
House for a high level briefing by top officials. One of his
first decisions as president was to appoint General Nathan F.
Twining as Chief of Staff of the Air Force. Eisenhower had
picked up where Truman had left off by wedding science and
technology in weapons development. He had launched the Army’s
postwar research and development program and had been won over
to a military strategy of U.S. competitive advantage in nuclear
weapons, airpower, and rockets to deter Soviet aggression. If
MJ-12 had ascended to the highest levels of power during
Truman’s Administration, it was now in position to move into
the White House itself. General of the Army George C. Marshall
and supporters in the War Department succeeded in the
unification of the armed forces under a single department of
defense. Lt. General McNarney and General Collins had drafted
the plan of coordination and centralization and the marriage of
the Technical Capabilities Panel headed by James R. Killian,
Jr., president of MIT (who later became Eisenhower’s scientific
advisor). The Office of Defesne Mobilization (ODM) had been
approved by Truman and now, in 1953, Eisenhower approved
recommendations made by Nelson Rockerfeller and supported by
Robert Cutler, Ike’s national security advisor, Vannevar Bush,
the CIA, and ODM provided a list of qualified experts as a ad
hoc panel of scientists to advise the NSC on MJ-12 proposals
and other issues. To aid Eisenhower in selecting the most
appropriate course in air defense and the whole UFO problem, he
appointed a special study group headed by the president of Bell
Laboratories. Truman had received a classified report from Dean
Acheson, Robert Lovett, and Averal Harriman. Their conclusions
stated that it was impossible to erect an impenetrable defense
which led Eisenhower to approve NSC 135/3 "United States
Objectives and Strategy for National Security" that continued
the line of support and strategy laid out in NSC 68 and similar
documents. If Stanton Friedman’s Final Report on Operation
Majestic 12 gets further confirmation on DCI Walter B. Smith’s
secret briefings given to Eisenhower before he met Truman
(Eisenhower and Truman were seen sitting stone cold publicly in
the executive limousine on their way to Ike’s swearing in) it
may mean that Eisenhower did not agree with Truman’s covert UFO
research program. Bush, as head of the Research and Development
Board (RDB) suggested the creation of the Weapons Systems
Evaluation Group (WSEG) in 1947 and 1948 without much success
due in large part by the Joint Chiefs of Staff which he viewed
as a "clear invasion…into the affairs of the Board." Without
disclosing intent (the establishment of MJ-12), Bush submitted
a special report to Truman urging the Budget Bureau to create a
new division to advise the president on matters regarding the
organization and budgeting of government research programs (in
1948, the Pentagon accounted for over 60% of all research and
development expenditures, including grants to universities for
defense research).
AREA 51
Protecting a secret is as, if not more important than the
secret itself and this was never more true of the
atomic—powered aircraft research that existed at Los Alamos and
Area 51 at the Nevada atomic proving ground. In 1950, defense
spending mushroomed to an annual 50 billion dollar budget. The
CIA Act of 1949 gave greater significance to black budget
spending and program management protecting covert technology
projects. As with the Manhattan Project, carefully selected
sites in remote and unpopulated areas in the Nevada desert were
chosen to conduct advanced research and development of
America’s best kept secret. Unconventional sky platforms.
Accordingly, the CIA Act of 1949 engendered the maximum
security placed on any department of the government that
included housing, commerce, construction, transportation, et.
al.—could transfer funds for CIA covert operations "without
regard to any provision of law."
In the summer of 1952, DCI Walter B. Smith sent a memorandum to
the Director, Psychological Strategy Board outlining the CIA’s
proposal to the NSC concerning "problems" related to UFO
program management indicating that there were clear
"implications for psychological warfare" and a much needed
charter for "intelligence and operations" in which Smith
desired discussions along these lines for the "utilization of
these phenomenon for psychological warfare purposes." In tab
(a) Smith drafted the CIA program proposal to the NSC Executive
Secretary concerning the "current situation" regarding press
coverage of UFO sightings from domestic and foreign sources so
far analyzed by the Office of Scientific Intelligence and
Weapons Evaluation Department. Given the fact that CIA analysts
had ruled out 80% as prosaic or man—made, Smith was concerned
with the remaining 20% which might compromise classified
defense projects requested a much "broader, coordinated effort"
to shore up the Air Forces UFO project and add a higher degree
of confidence within the CIA that "present efforts" were not
going to be derailed. Smith strongly recommended that the CIA
"and agencies of the Department of Defense be directed to
formulate and carry out a program of intelligence and research"
necessary to "solve the problem of instant positive
identification" of UFO sightings. In tab (b) Smith drafted what
the CIA UFO project required in the form of assistance and
cooperation to make the agency’s "program of intelligence and
research" doable:
The Director of Central Intelligence shall formulate and carry
out a program of intelligence and research activities as
required to solve the problem of instant positive
identification of unidentified flying objects.
Upon call of the Director of Central Intelligence, Government
departments and agencies shall provide assistance in this
program of intelligence and research to the extent of their
capacity provided, however, that the DCI shall avoid
duplication of activities toward the solution of this problem.
This effort shall be coordinated with the military services
and the Research and Development Board of the Department of
Defense, with the Psychological Strategy Board and other
Government agencies as appropriate.
The Director of Central Intelligence shall disseminate
information concerning the program of intelligence and
research activities in this field to the various departments
and agencies which have authorized interest therein.
Note: For a detailed look at the Walter B. Smith Memo please
see the following pages below.
Walter B. Smith Memo Page1
Walter B. Smith Memo Tab A
Walter B. Smith Memo Tab B
The NSC 68 estimate suggested that the Soviets were throwing
large amounts of precious resources into armaments of all kinds
and supported Smith’s outlook on the possibility of "total war"
and "annihilation" unless the U.S. gained the high ground in
technological developments. Thus, a need for another Manhattan
Project was endorsed by President Eisenhower and immediate
steps were taken to locate and build a research center in the
Nevada desert. This site was located just outside of Nellis
AFB. The CIA and Lockheed, its primary contractor began
occupying various sites controlled by the Atomic Energy
Commission known as Groom Lake for black projects such as
ANGEL, AQUITONE, OXCART, LOOKING GLASS, and a host of others.
Other sites were later constructed at Papoose Lake, Tonopah
Test Range, Indian Springs, and annex sites in New Mexico,
California, Arizona, and Texas to facilitate other "agencies"
involved in the "program."
To insure the security of the "program" carried out at these
sites, an elaborate camouflage operation was conducted by the
CIA and the Air Force known to all researchers as Project BLUE
BOOK. Initiated by Major General Charles P. Cabell USAF,
Director of Air Force Intelligence, Project BLUE BOOK (the
successor to GRUDGE) began in the spring of 1952 for the sole
purpose of collecting information from all sources including
the public and forwarding it to the DCI for further evaluation
as specified in Smith’s 1952 NSC draft memorandum. In April
1953, Cabell was sworn in as Deputy Director of Central
Intelligence by President Eisenhower shortly after Major Edward
Ruppelt left the project. Cabell was appraised of the CIA’s
January 1953 assessment in which H.P. Robertson, Director of
the Weapons Systems Evaluation Group presided over concurred
with GRUDGE recommendations to "strip the Unidentified Flying
Objects of special status" and "institute policies on
intelligence" by "an integrated program…to train personnel to
recognize and reject false indications…and strengthen regular
channels for the evaluation of and prompt reaction to true
indications of hostile measures."
I find it interesting that the alleged Top Secret Special
Operations Manual dated April 1954 defined the reason for
deception and camouflage of the CIA’s UFO "intelligence and
research activities" by stating that the greatest threat to
secrecy was "the acquisition and study of such advanced
technology by foreign powers unfriendly to the United States."
This concern is echoed in a 1952 briefing given to Air Defense
Command units of the classified activities of the Air Technical
Intelligence Center "is not to investigate "flying saucer"
reports, it is charged with prevention of technological
surprise by a foreign country." The manual also relates how the
camouflage operated by imposing a "total press blackout" and
issuing "cover stories" prefaced by official denials. This is
quite similar to past modus operandi employed by military and
CIA covert operations and PSYOP policies of psychological
warfare. This could have been the same policy for the Air
Force’s Project SILVER BUG, a jet powered flying saucer test
bed aircraft development for vertical takeoff and landing
fighters and bombers. It is also the same year that a case
study in psychological warfare manual was published for the
Department of the Army titled A Psychological Warfare Casebook,
Technical Memorandum ORO-T-360 and revised in1956 and 1958
under contract with Operations Research Office, Johns Hopkins
University.
99.9% of UFO is disinformation(Psychological Warfare!) and hoaxes ....0.1% who knows or cares
http://www.geocities.com/area51/hollow/8827/tim2.html
Source: Majestic 12 Reports by Tim Cooper
http://home.sprintmail.com/~rigoletto/tim_cooper_documents.html
RESEARCH SYNOPSIS ON THE MAJESTIC DOCUMENTS
By
Timothy S. Cooper
Private Investigator
P.O. Box 1206
Big Bear Lake, CA 92315
909-878-5929
tim4801@sprynet.com
December 30, 1999
Continued from page 1
By January 1955, the CIA and the Air Force had launched various
weapons and systems projects under the cloak of the highest
national security umbrella for remote—guided weapons,
uninhabited aerial vehicles (UAV’s), high altitude
reconnaissance aircraft and advanced material production for
space weapons applications.
General Cabell mentioned the difficult task of UFO intelligence
and research experienced by the Air Force and CIA in his
memoirs and made a provocative statement regarding the results
of BLUE BOOK when he wrote that "it [must] be remembered that
it was not until December 1969 that the Air Force felt
justified in ruling out any substance of a harmful nature in
the mass of reports about "Flying Saucers" or "Unidentified
Flying Objects"" and that it "took all those years, the efforts
of several boards of very learned men, and above all, the
sophisticated knowledge that came from our space program,
including a successful landing on the moon, to give this
confidence."
This confidence did not extend to the CIA for their analysts
were not convinced that all UFO sightings were associated with
the things GRUDGE and BLUE BOOK identified as mentioned in a 1
August, 1952 memorandum from the Weapons and Equipment Division
to the Deputy Assistant Director of Scientific Intelligence
that recommended "that CIA surveillance of subject matter, in
coordination with proper authorities of primary operational
concern at ATIC, be continued" and that no indication of CIA
interest or concern reach the press." This fact was not known
until 1978 when the CIA was compelled by court order to search
for UFO documents and declassified and released them in 1980 to
the public through the Freedom of Information Act. I find it
very curious that the Air Force released a fact sheet along
with newly declassified CIA UFO files to me on September 23,
1998 in which (as they have always done) state that BLUE BOOK
was discontinued (the public experiment) on December 17, 1969,
in which 701 sightings remained unidentified and based on the
University of Colorado report "Scientific Study of Unidentified
Flying Objects" as a "Air Force experience" from Project SIGN,
GRUDGE, and BLUE BOOK (USAF Fact Sheet 95—03). An even more
curious fact is found in the fact sheet that suggests a
continuing surveillance by the Air Force that "nothing has
occurred that would support a resumption of UFO
investigations…. Given the current environment of steadily
decreasing defense budgets, it is unlikely the Air Force would
become involved in such a costly project in the foreseeable
future." This may not be so, for CIA and NSA UFO files of the
70’s through the 90’s have Air Force activities on their
distribution lists. I believe Air Force Intelligence still
maintains a "world—wide reporting system" and continues to
"make interceptions of unidentified flying objects" as stated
in a September 24, 1952 CIA memorandum from H. Marshall
Chadwell, Assistant Director for Scientific Intelligence to DCI
Walter B. Smith that "whether or not these sightings: (1) could
be controlled; (2) could be predicted; and (3) could be used
from a psychological warfare point of view, either offensively
or defensively." I also believe the same policy of "what should
be told the public" for the same reasons Chadwell demonstrated
over 50 years ago a "community—wide coordinated effort"
continues to operate.
I can only conclude at this point that whatever work is going
on at Area 51 and annex sites that warrants the use of "deadly
force" on deliberate or accidental intruders on the ground or
in the air, the tales coming from "insiders" and much
speculation on just what deserves such extreme protection was
out of public view for nearly 40 years.
THE MAJESTIC TWELVE DOCUMENTS—AUTHENTIC OR DISINFORMATION?
In this final segment of my synopsis, I would like to draw your
attention to some little known and misunderstood facts that
surfaced in my year—long review of the questionable documents
as a whole. First, I would like to make on point very clear,
and that is; they do not presume to be designed to mislead
ufologists into accepting what some experts believe are bad
history or poorly done reporting of facts. To those who have
taken the time to carefully research the data, they have
yielded unexpected surprises which has opened up new pathways
to other documents that would have otherwise not been located
in official archives. That’s important and essential to
understanding the design and intent of the writer(s) who were
responsible for their creation. The main objection, which has
been put forward by so many researchers—is that they reflect
information that, so far as I know, seem out of place and do
not fit into conventional Department of Defense classification
of the period. This is a valid objection. Another is—they are
not (with exception of a few documents) virgin material. That
is, they are not original documents and lack proper control and
registry security numbers and cover sheets for document
management by custodians of classified information. And
finally, but most importantly, they do not entirely fit in with
official UFO history. One could argue that a extraterrestrial
spacecraft could have crashed in the remote New Mexican desert
53 years ago, the military recovered it and the President
ordered everyone involved to keep his mouth shut about it. This
is all quite plausible. The other side to this, that is,
keeping this fact secret by so many for so long without a trace
of connected physical evidence or some kind of official paper
trail strains one’s credibility. How could such a broad and
sweeping intelligence and research operation involving possibly
tens of thousands of military and civilian personnel funded by
a budget larger than the Manhattan project under the most
extreme security precautions escape the notice of just about
everyone in the federal government? For that I have no answer
to. It is a fact that the military, the CIA, NSA, NRO, FBI,
DIA, NASA, and just about every other alphabet agency in the
U.S. intelligence community can and has kept secrets from us
for as long as it remains a secret and will employ any means to
keep it secret. We have history on our side to prove it. The
United States Government has over 200 years of experience in
running statecraft secrecy and has the bureaucracy and
resources to bury information it does not want the public to
know. The government, by its own mass and structure, can also
be a castle with many rooms and secret closets whose existence
is not known by even the servants. Only those who possess the
"keys" can unlock these hidden doors of secrets. I believe, in
this case, the Majestic documents are a kind of "key" or cipher
to a much larger information code to a much larger, but darker
secret about American history of which we are only beginning to
learn about. We still don’t know why U.S. intelligence allowed
the attack by the Japanese on Pearl Harbor or if President
Roosevelt knew of the attack in advance. We still don’t know
why President Kennedy was shot to death in broad daylight in
front of so many witnesses who saw more than three snipers
shoot from three different locations and the president’s body
was "altered" and the autopsy changed to make it look like the
work of one gunman. We can speculate and theorize for another
50 years on this issue, but until the agencies responsible see
it in their best interest to release this information, we can
only piece together unconnected facts and second hand testimony
in a chance reconstruction of what we think might have
happened.
In my own humble opinion, the Majestic documents are basically
reliable as far as content is concerned with the exception of
questionable hypothesis that there are other intelligent,
thinking, machine building cultures visiting planet earth on a
regular, day to day basis. The documents may be a product of
either U.S. or Soviet disinformation whose target may be the
defense establishments and the economic machinery of war
making. They may be a product of the art of psychological
warfare whose purpose is to throw doubt and suspicion among an
enemy causing him to divert his defenses in a direction of
attack that never came. It may be the work of a lonely,
disgruntled, and frustrated ufologist who desperately wanted to
project his own personal belief in aliens from another world on
the rest of us for reasons not apparent. Or—they could be real.
One theory that has been advanced over the last few years is
that the Majestic documents were written by a remorseful but
clever intelligence professional wishing to expose a cover—up
by the intelligence community for personal reasons. Given the
psychology of UFO researchers and their propensity to dig for
facts, the perpetrator may have understood this and injected
truth with falsehoods as a test of will and determination on
the researcher’s part to get to the truth. Or—the whole thing
is just a hoax by someone who enjoys seeing the UFO community
upset and split apart by personal differences and wants a good
laugh on everyone. So far, this scenario has not surfaced which
is surprising to say the least.
There is one document that does not connect to any MJ-12
organization nor pretends to project fantasy is the
Einstein/Oppenheimer opinion draft of June 1947. I have spent
considerable time and research on both scientists and their
backgrounds and personal lives that leads me to believe the
document to be reflective of the time and paranoia that really
existed among military intelligence. The style, choice of
words, reflection of the "inner man" thoughts on scientific
probability and the realization of the terrible consequences of
nuclear annihilation are consistent with both Einstein and
Oppenheimer views of the time. Both were instrumental in the
development of atomic weapons. Both entertained personal
beliefs that mankind is not unique in the universe. And both,
irrespective of what you may believe were secretly involved in
extending the physics of atomic energy to a new level of
understanding through peaceful applications of the atomic
structure of the single unifying force that drives the physical
universe. It may be only coincidence but both men saw their
careers cut short within one year of each other. Oppenheimer in
1954 by the AEC and Einstein’s death in 1955. Both had security
dossiers in the Army, FBI, AEC, and CIA. Both were considered
high security risks in the Manhattan project and were labeled
communists by the government. Most importantly, both were
visionaries in their fields (Einstein was selected as Time
magazine Man of the Century and the development of the atomic
bomb as the most significant bench mark of human achievements
in science).
As to the rest of the documents, I can only conclude based on
what I have studied in the last year are likely to be, as I
have already pointed out, accurate in a historical context and
possibly reflect the politics and statecraft of the times.
RECOMMENDATIONS
Authenticating any Majestic document may be improbable in the
present environment and could take many years of painstaking
research and analysis which, in either case would be a costly
and controversial undertaking. As an alternative to a long
drawn out process of elimination, I recommend that the
psychological warfare theory be considered along with research
directed in the field of nuclear—powered aircraft and missile
development as possible approaches in solving the implications
made in the documents. I also recommend that further FOIA
requests be directed at the CIA’s AEC intelligence files of the
1950’s and 60’s as possible confirmation for MAJIC security
classification. Background research on individuals mentioned
would also yield more information and associations with
classified defense projects connected to known black programs
of the CIA and NRO. I would also suggest that a reexamination
of released UFO documents including Project BLUE BOOK as a
least expensive approach to making connections to the CIA and
possibly proving that a formal UFO intelligence and research
program did exist and thereby establishing factual evidence for
a Majestic—like operation. A reexamination of the AEC’s
Manhattan Project files from NARA would provide the best model
in which to construct a workable hypothesis for understanding
the security structure for the claims made in the documents
which may lead to further documents. As a way of verification
of Operation Paperclip involvement a FOIA request to the CIA
would be in order, at least to confirm which German scientist
was employed to work in classified AEC, CIA, and USAF research
projects.
© Tim Cooper, 2000
jamesc
15-07-2009, 03:05 PM
Well I did not say anything bout drug induced in my previous posts, however drug induced halluninatons can still be relevent and im not sure why you want to disregard them... and UFOs are a massive relevance, as they were spotted during WW2 .. and can quite easily travel in space.
Well you are talking about a separate issue... there are many many issues going on, from Sexual child abuse, to financial corruption making people starve to death in poverty... and the list goes on and on...
what is important is people see through the false picture of reality they are presented with so all these injustices can be brought to light and faced up to.
If someone finds out that the government/military have been lying their asses off to us for the last 70 or so years, I fail to see how this is going to cover anything else up... I think it will totally make people ask more questions and look at things like MKU are so on...
I am just not sure why you seem to feel you have all the facts... the fact is, is that it is totally possible that there are ETEs present in our atmosphere and even our planet... and if this is true and been kept from us, the I fail to see why this also is not important.
Agree, there is enough circumstantual evidence to go on to have the possibility of ADVANCED ET races having visited us in the past or present. There are just too many reliable , (military ect), witnesses to ignore.The findings of the late Dr John Mack cannot be ignored also.
hagbard_celine
16-07-2009, 01:14 PM
http://www.geocities.com/area51/hollow/8827/timcoop.html
99.9% of UFO is disinformation(Psychological Warfare!) and hoaxes ....0.1% who knows or cares
MILABs do indeed take place, but there's no way they explain the entire abduction phenomenon. And the "0.1%" is not the true percentage of what comes under the MILAB umbrella. I'd say the ration is closer to 50%-50%. Alien abduction cases go back in time far futher than the history of the CIA etc. It's a human archetype that can be found in prehistoric myths and ancient history.
clachan
17-07-2009, 08:29 PM
Could it represent one cycle ending and another starting, a change of direction?
Though in all honesty i think its "Dave & Bob".
white horse
17-07-2009, 11:15 PM
Could it represent one cycle ending and another starting, a change of direction?
Though in all honesty i think its "Dave & Bob".
It could represent a year; The sun describes two spirals connected to form similar to a figure 8 - one spiral for winter, one for summer.
Spirals and lozenges/diamonds generally are neolithic symbols for the sun/solar year.
http://merganser.math.gvsu.edu/myth/spirals.html
http://books.google.com/books?id=AS7hpfq8K1YC&pg=PA190&lpg=PA190&dq=solar+year+spiral&source=bl&ots=-XdLwGxgbd&sig=nKrKszyEfU-TCvnZnnB38QokWsE&hl=en (see page 90)
rodin
18-07-2009, 11:59 PM
IMO are produced by steerable MASER on satellite platform. The stem wilting at node is the kicker evidence - plus you can see elements of CAD including pattern rotation (where slight errors are repeated etc)
edit
Some few are made in the old way too - with ropes planks etc, I am talking about the sophisticated ones
geewhizz
19-07-2009, 12:37 AM
IMO are produced by steerable MASER on satellite platform. The stem wilting at node is the kicker evidence - plus you can see elements of CAD including pattern rotation (where slight errors are repeated etc)
edit
Some few are made in the old way too - with ropes planks etc, I am talking about the sophisticated ones
D&D
rodin
19-07-2009, 01:11 AM
D&D
Dungeons and Dragons? Could you be more obscure?
elton
19-07-2009, 01:18 AM
IMO are produced by steerable MASER on satellite platform. The stem wilting at node is the kicker evidence - plus you can see elements of CAD including pattern rotation (where slight errors are repeated etc)
edit
Some few are made in the old way too - with ropes planks etc, I am talking about the sophisticated ones
They are made by extra-terrestrials. It is an attempt to communicate.
cruise4
19-07-2009, 02:22 AM
I'm leaning towards man made too. There's far better ways to communicate with 'us' even though initially it's easy to suspect pictogram type symbolism as the basis of higher thought, which it might be. But in this case... trickery. I could be wrong obviously... but it's all a bit too convenient and perhaps a bit too cosmically predictable, albeit not by us, but I'd say certainly by those in the know of the advanced science's.
rodin
19-07-2009, 01:23 PM
They are made by extra-terrestrials. It is an attempt to communicate.
The ET's waited until the idea was started with two men and a plank, then they started creating what are obviously computer aided designed patterns with a new Age message using alien technology no different from what a satellite MASER could do. The started doing this shortly after the satellite MASER became feasible?
Really people it is time to separate the tares from the wheat. You've not been on the fluoride have you?
jamesc
19-07-2009, 09:13 PM
Have to agree there James, although exponents of the space technolgy theory argue, fairly well at times, that this could be explained in this way.
I'm inclined to believe that there is probably a mixture of phenomena at work - some originating on earth, some not (well at least not in the same dimension). Maybe there is something in this secret space technology thing, but I still can't equate government scientist boffins, with beauty, artistry and spiritual symbolism of many the formations.
I feel that this year, more than any other is one where things are coming into sharper focus. The formations have been as spectacular so far, as any other year I can remember, with the possibility of many being man-made by board stompers, now virtually being ruled out. But I feel other forces are fighting to muddy the waters. There were the incidents at Canning Cross recently with the formation being sabotaged, then re-touched up, then somebody shooting at site-seeing tourists trying to visit the cc. There have been other instances of formations being cut out, before anybody has even seen them and that strange incident at Silbury Hill, initiated by Colin Andrews, with sightings of strange beings being reported. I think this is another attempt at muddying the waters.
I'm surprised Andrews did not do what I did last Sunday and visit the formation in question. If he had done so, he would have seen the problem with the story - the crop circle is up a steep hill and completely unseen from the road where described in the report.
It all seems to play a dual purpose in reinforcing the view in many that CCs are created by aliens, but on the other hand this strange, unsubstantiated story makes belief in them being created by aliens all the more rediculous to others. So views just get more polarised.
But, yes, this recent basket weave formation at Alton Barnes has really drawn a line in the sand.
Tanks for your input and of course you are right about possible unseen or unknown forces at work here trying to muddy the waters.This formation has like you say ,"drawn a line in the sand" as to how we go about from now on in measuring,comparing and investigating these kind of formations that appear to defy all logic as to their origin and makers.The hoaxed formations and the makers of them will have a much harder time from now on in trying to convince us that ALL formations are man made in origin.Hopefully and by its very complexity, this formation is the yard stick on which all formations are
subjected to scrutiny and investigations on sieving out the hoaxed from the truly unknown and wondrous ones.:)
Tanks for your input and of course you are right about possible unseen or unknown forces at work here trying to muddy the waters.This formation has like you say ,"drawn a line in the sand" as to how we go about from now on in measuring,comparing and investigating these kind of formations that appear to defy all logic as to their origin and makers.The hoaxed formations and the makers of them will have a much harder time from now on in trying to convince us that ALL formations are man made in origin.Hopefully and by its very complexity, this formation is the yard stick on which all formations are
subjected to scrutiny and investigations on sieving out the hoaxed from the truly unknown and wondrous ones.:)
why is it that most people are still convinced they are hiding Alien/UFO`s? I think you find they are covering up there is no aliens UFO`s involved !!!
Same as there effort to make out they landed on the moon....see we did go honest like that dot the moon lander
O h theres no aliens .....bit look over there theres crop circles :rolleyes:
jamesc
19-07-2009, 09:39 PM
why is it that most people are still convinced they are hiding Alien/UFO`s? I think you find they are covering up there is no aliens UFO`s involved !!!
Same as there effort to make out they landed on the moon....see we did go honest like that dot the moon lander
O h theres no aliens .....bit look over there theres crop circles :rolleyes:
Why is it that some people are convinced like your self that there is no UFO/ALIEN cover up but cannot produce any proof that says or shows that there is no POSSIBILITY of a cover up. Despite all the circumstantial evidence pointing to a possible cover up , yet that is ignored:confused:. Until you can produce evidence that proves that there is NO POSSIBILITY OF A COVER UP AND NO CONNECTION'S TO SOME CROP FORMATIONS then i reserve my right to hold the views expressing the POSSIBILITY of a cover up and SOME UFOs and crop formations having an extratresstial origin.;).
phildee3
19-07-2009, 10:12 PM
How was the crop layed out in the one below? was it as complex as the "basket formation with the crop layered underneath each other to form the basket formation?Just asking mate as this basket formation has me really intrigued on the shear complexity and technology of this formation.
But the East Field "basket formation" doesn't near have the complexity of geometry as at Martinsall.
The weave doesn't impress me that much. Believe me, you ain't seen nothin' yet, buddy!!
It's the geometry that fascinates me!
Why is it that some people are convinced like your self that there is no UFO/ALIEN cover up but cannot produce any proof that says or shows that there is no POSSIBILITY of a cover up. Despite all the circumstantial evidence pointing to a possible cover up , yet that is ignored:confused:. Until you can produce evidence that proves that there is NO POSSIBILITY OF A COVER UP AND NO CONNECTION'S TO SOME CROP FORMATIONS then i reserve my right to hold the views expressing the POSSIBILITY of a cover up and SOME UFOs and crop formations having an extratresstial origin.;).
the CIA used the belief of aliens for a cover for stealth aircraft , high altitude parachutes (U2) Roswell etc..... and probley a ton of other stuff illegal human experiments......
If you want me to belief other wise simple.....show my the aliens? ....were are they?
http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/2009/martinsellhill2/martinsell2_26_OH.jpg
also why did the above crop circle stop when there was grass at the edge of the field ? does microwaves not bend grass??? why did not some other mystery phoneme carry into the grass????
http://www.cropfiles.it/docs/Crops-by-Bols.html
Over the years, numerous people have claimed that they have seen how a crop circle was created by one or more "balls of light". Recent www.ecn.org/cunfi/Haselhoff.pdf have confirmed these statements: Circumstantial evidence has shown that crop circles may very well be made by ‘balls of light' indeed! This article explains the essential elements of these studies in simple terms.
Node Lengthening
The stems of corn-type plants are characterised by little ‘knuckles', at several positions along the stems (see Figure 1). These nodes act as a kind of ligament. They allow the plants to bend towards the light, even after they have grown to their full length.
http://www.cropfiles.it/docs/figure1.jpg
In the early 1990s, the American biophysicist William Levengood discovered that plants inside crop circles often had much longer nodes than those in the undisturbed, surrounding crop. This effect is illustrated in Figure 2.
http://www.cropfiles.it/docs/figure2.jpg
Although there are known biological effects that can create node lengthening, these could be easily ruled out. It was clear that something else had happened. The effect could be simulated by placing normal, healthy stems inside a microwave oven. The heat induced by the microwaves made the liquids inside the nodes expand, just like the mercury inside a thermometer. This caused the nodes to increase in length, while the amount of lengthening increased proportionally to the amount of microwave energy that was generated. This finding led to the conclusion that the node lengthening effect may be caused by the involvement of heat, possibly caused by microwave radiation. In fact, traces of heat have been found innumerable times in crop circles all over the world, such as dehydrated plants, burn marks, and molten snow.
Balls of Light
The number of ‘balls of light' that have been seen by eyewitnesses has increased considerably over the last couple of years. Sized somewhere between an egg and a football, these bright, fluorescent, flying light objects seem to be somehow related to the crop circle phenomenon. They often appear in the fields during the night a crop circle forms, and have been seen (and filmed!) many times in and around crop circles. Several persons have even claimed that they witnessed how these balls of light actually created a crop circle.
Science Responds
In the year 1999, William Levengood and Nancy Talbott published a scientific paper [1] that contained a study to the node lengthening effect in three different crop circles, two in England and one in the USA. The authors presented a ‘quantitative analysis’; in other words, the article tried to explain the AMOUNT of node lengthening throughout the crop circle, by means of physical models. The authors concluded that the heat (that had made the nodes swell) was electromagnetic in origin. One year later, I contributed a paper reacting to the one by Levengood and Talbott. This article appeared early 2001 [2]. The paper reinterpreted the data published by Levengood and Talbott and showed that the node lengthening as measured in all three crop circles could be perfectly explained by assuming that a ‘ball of light’ had caused the node swelling effect. An identical analysis performed on a famous man-made formation (Dreischor, Holland, 1997) did not show these characteristics at all. My statements can be interpreted as follows: Imagine a dark room with one single light bulb hanging on the ceiling. If you switch on the light, you will notice that right below the light bulb the light intensity on the floor will be brightest. Towards the edges of the room, the floor will gradually become darker. This light distribution on the floor is well understood, and can be described with high accuracy. The exact light distribution on the floor depends on the HEIGHT of the light bulb. When the light bulb is hanging very low, almost touching the floor, the floor underneath the light bulb will be very bright, but the intensity will rapidly become less as you move away from it (see Figure 3, left). When the light is hanging high on the ceiling, however, the light intensity underneath the light will be much less and be more evenly distributed over the floor (see Figure 3, right). Because this mechanism is so well known, one can actually derive the height of the light bulb after measuring the light distribution on the floor.
and 40% of land mass is covered by crops....probably barely/wheat they might of discovered it be accident...
and when you think about it were would you test your satellites? crop fields are pretty flat common and actually react as well, plus grow around the world so no need to move a sat out of orbit etc....also they have a myth with Aliens as cover as well....
thirdwave
19-07-2009, 11:02 PM
If you want me to belief other wise simple.....show my the aliens? ....were are they?
that's a bit of an ignorant thing to say when the argument is they are being covered up :)
How about this.
if the government want us to believe in UFOs and ETEs so much, then why have the government/military not confirmed a long time ago they are real? are they not confirmed as real?
the whole world would be convinced then.
who elsie
19-07-2009, 11:15 PM
http://www.cropfiles.it/docs/Crops-by-Bols.html
and 40% of land mass is covered by crops....probably barely/wheat they might of discovered it be accident...
and when you think about it were would you test your satellites? crop fields are pretty flat common and actually react as well, plus grow around the world so no need to move a sat out of orbit etc....also they have a myth with Aliens as cover as well....
I understand what you are saying Deca, and you argue your case well, but there are still a few unanswered questions about the use of this satalite technology, for me. I don't doubt that this technology exists, but crop circles have been appearing for many decades, even centuries, but with a marked increase in number and complexity since about 1990. Have these all been created in this way?
If 40% of our land mass is covered by crop and the ptb are merely testing technology, why are the CCs concentrated in specific areas only, with the epicentre being Wiltshire, UK - a region known for its sacred sites and earth energies?
The areas the CCs invariably appear in are also known to be over aquiferous land. Why would satellite technology be limited to only certain types of land strata?
Why also, do the CCs clearly present symbols and sacred geometry that convey messages of a spiritual or astronomical nature, if they are just testing the technology?
Just a few q's to kick around.
that's a bit of an ignorant thing to say when the argument is they are being covered up :)
How about this.
if the government want us to believe in UFOs and ETEs so much, then why have the government/military not confirmed a long time ago they are real? are they not confirmed as real?
the whole world would be convinced then.
I think 80% of Americans do that`s more that voted for BUSH
Alien 'abductees' show real symptoms
Alien space craft
Many abductees share personality traits
Amos, BBC
By Jonathan Amos
BBC News Online science staff in Denver
People who claim to have been kidnapped by aliens have a tendency to believe in fantasies and suffer disturbing experiences in their sleep, scientists have found.
But the researchers say "abductees" also believe in their experiences so deeply that they display real stress symptoms similar to those of traumatised battlefield veterans.
The latest research on the "taken" phenomenon was unveiled at the annual meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science in Denver.
"This underscores the power of emotional belief," Professor Richard McNally, from Harvard University, told the BBC.
I've had several encounters with alien craft and I've had an alien implant removed from my body
'Abductees'
"If you genuinely believe you've been traumatised and recall these memories, you'll show the same psycho-physiologic emotional reactions as people who really have been traumatised."
A group of abductees told the BBC about their experiences on Saturday. One of them said: "I've had several encounters with alien craft and I've had an alien implant removed from my body."
New-age beliefs
It was typical of the stories they all had to relate. It is thought there are about four million Americans who believe they have been abducted by extraterrestrials.
Scientists believe this clearly is not true, so why do abductees believe they have been taken?
Professor McNally has found that many of them share personality traits and sleep disorders.
"Most of them had pre-existing new-age beliefs - they were into bio-energetic therapies, past lives, astral projection, tarot cards, and so on," he said.
"Second, they have episodes of apparent sleep paralysis accompanied by hallucinations."
Lab experiments
These frightening experiences usually prompted the individuals to visit therapists, who would frequently suggest alien abduction as a cause - an explanation which the abductees readily accepted, he said.
Professor McNally has come up with a rational explanation of alien abduction experiences which was endorsed by other psychologists in Denver. He said the individuals conformed to a "common recipe".
But the researcher stressed that many of the people really did believe what they were saying.
In laboratory experiments, individuals were asked to relate their experiences. These stories were played back to them and their physical responses recorded.
"When a Vietnam vet has his experiences played back to him in the lab of some combat event, his heart rate goes up and you see an increase in sweating. If you don't have post-traumatic stress disorder, you don't react that way.
"The heart-rate responses and sweating responses were at least as great in the alien abductees when they heard their memories of being taken and molested by space aliens and subjected to experiments as those of people with genuine traumatic events."
Hmmm yes thirdwave you keep believing in aliens , then get profiled and end up as a human Guinean pig for DARP,CIA etc.....how about camping next to one of them crop circles ?
Start seeing throw this bullshit ....listen to your spirit guide etc....
thirdwave
19-07-2009, 11:37 PM
I think 80% of Americans do that`s more that voted for BUSH
Well this is kind of a trick figure as it is 80% that believe in the existence of Aliens... not that they are flying around us and that the govenment are aware of them.. they simply believe there must be some out there... the % of people who think the government are aware of them will be lower I think.
but the question still lies why have they not used there power to confirm this along time ago and make ETEs/UFOs household knowledge?
Hmmm yes thirdwave you keep believing in aliens , then get profiled and end up as a human Guinean pig for DARP,CIA etc.....how about camping next to one of them crop circles ?
I would love to, but they are on privet property..
I have always believed in the existence of ETEs... and many others forms of un earthly life.. Being used as a Guinea pig has nothing to do with it.. im sure they are abusing humans somewhere in there hidden cells...
What I don't understand is how you KNOW they are also not interacting with other life, and what facts you have to show this to not be possible.
if you are right in that it is a fake thing they are doing then you are saying for the lasy 70 or so years this has been a plan slowly being put into place... all just as a forum of "detraction"?.. you really think all the people out there have let all the shit go down because they have been so worried about ETEs?
nope, don't by it mate.
wakey wakey Thirdwave its called the NEW WORLD ORDER
thirdwave
19-07-2009, 11:52 PM
wakey wakey Thirdwave its called the NEW WORLD ORDER
With out dragging off from the CC chat... I will just say..
I know what the NWO is... im just confused how to find logic in how they have slowly and elegantly pretended to have ETE and UFO interaction while also creating the illusion they are covering it up, for around 70 years doing this... just to cover up the NWO and take peoples minds of it.. even though for the massive part of that 70 years the info on them has been spas and incredibly inconsistent...and mainly underground,... only really raising its head when the .com hit came..
makes no sense what's so ever...
we are meant to suddenly trust everything our government and military do because we believe they have covered up ETEs from us... does it not kind of, whip out every speck of trust that may have existed and replace it with complete distrust and scepticism?
operation paper clip natzi scientists went to America and help to make Nukes and the natzi was very good with propaganda ask Gerbals and used Stuka dive bombers and V2 rockets that cause psychological FEAR, Also they were doing human experiments on the Jews ask Dr. Joseph Mangla....MK in MK-Ultra stands for mind control as it is spelled in German. Meinung Kontrolle
We were blagged by the natzi at nasa about the moon landings
plus look at bush grandad being the head natzi in the USA ect....
Do you think that they faked the moon landings? and you have a problem with crop circles? when they have spent billions on starwars, son of starwars, weopizing space , haarp ect...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luftwaffe
The Luftwaffe was central to the German Blitzkrieg (lightning war) doctrine, as the close air support provided by various medium two-engine bombers, Stuka dive bombers and an overwhelming force of tactical fighters were key to several early successes.
The US call this shock & awe
http://www.2worldwar2.com/stuka.htm
Finally, as if the sight and sound of an enemy bomber diving right at you is not frightening enough, Adolf Hitler ordered to equip the Stuka with a screaming siren that made the sound of its dive far more frightening, giving it a greatly enhanced psychological effect which terrorized enemy civilians and soldiers alike, including some anti-aircraft gunners who could fire at it and did not.
hmm they are building FEMA camps.....most be for all them aliens whizzing about ,Thirdwave
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip
Operation Paperclip was the code name for the 1945 Joint Intelligence Objectives Agency[1] O.S.S.[citation needed] recruitment of German scientists from Nazi Germany to the U.S. after VE Day.[2]
President Truman authorised Operation Paperclip in August 1945, however he had expressly ordered that anyone found "to have been a member of the Nazi party and more than a nominal participant in its activities, or an active supporter of Nazism militarism" would be excluded.
Under this criteria many of the scientists recruited such as Wernher von Braun, Arthur Rudolph and Hubertus Strughold, who were all officially on record as Nazis and listed as a “menace to the security of the Allied Forces”, were ineligible. All were cleared to work in the U.S. after having their backgrounds "bleached" by the military. The paperclip which secured their new details in their personnel files gave the operation its name. Much of the information surrounding Operation Paperclip is still classified.
most of been all rocket scientists :rolleyes:
I think you will find that the natzi had a few flying saucer aircraft and other experimental aircraft that uncle Sam was willing to throw money at , plus most of Europe was buggered by war USA hardly touched and its Industrial machine in full flight , plus have the world owing it war debt , easily got a technological advantage
http://dmgonzam.h8red.cl/wp-content/upload/image069.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d5/Arnold_crescent_1947.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_Arnold
He is best-known for making what is generally considered the first widely reported unidentified flying object sighting in the United States, after claiming to see nine unusual objects flying in a chain near Mount Rainier, Washington on June 24, 1947. Arnold described the objects' shape as resembling a flat saucer or disc (see quotes below), and also described their erratic motion as resembling a saucer skipped across water; from this, the press quickly coined the new terms "flying saucer" and "flying disc" to describe such objects, many of which were reported within days after Arnold's sighting. Later Arnold would add that the objects resembled a crescent or flying wing (image at right). The U.S. Air Force formally listed the Arnold case as a mirage; this is one of many explanations that have been rebutted by critics, and researchers Jerome Clark[1] and Ronald Story[2] both argue that there has never been an entirely persuasive conventional explanation of the Arnold sighting.
somebody doctored these a bit
http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p292/hiii_98/ufocomparison.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horten_Ho_229
The Horten Ho IX (often called Ho 229, or Gotha Go 229 due to the identity of the chosen manufacturer of the aircraft) was a late-World War II prototype flying wing fighter/bomber, designed by Reimar and Walter Horten and built by Gothaer Waggonfabrik. It is the first pure flying wing powered by a turbojet,[1] and has been described by some as the first aircraft designed to incorporate stealth technology.[2] It was a personal favorite of German Luftwaffe chief Reichsmarschall Hermann Göring, and was the only aircraft to come close to meeting his "1000, 1000, 1000" performance requirements.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9a/Go229.jpg
Thirdwave you Speken Ze Douche?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josef_Mengele
Human experimentation
Block 10 - Medical experimentation block in Auschwitz
Mengele used Auschwitz as an opportunity to continue his research on heredity, using inmates for human experimentation. He was particularly interested in identical twins; they would be selected and placed in special barracks. He also recruited Berthold Epstein, a Jewish pediatrician. As a doctor, Epstein proposed to Mengele a study into treatments of the disease called Noma that was noted for particularly affecting children from the camp.[6]
While the exact cause of Noma remains uncertain, it is now known that it has a higher occurrence in children suffering from malnutrition and a lower immune system response. Many develop the disease shortly after contracting another illness such as measles or tuberculosis.[7]
Mengele took an interest in physical abnormalities discovered among the arrivals at the concentration camp. These included dwarfs, notably the Ovitz family - the children of a Romanian artist, of whom seven of the 10 members were dwarfs. Prior to their deportation, they toured in Eastern Europe as the Lilliput Troupe. Mengele often called them "my dwarf family"; to him they seemed to be the perfect expression of "the abnorm".[citation needed]
Mengele's experiments also included attempts to change eye color by injecting chemicals into children's eyes, various amputations of limbs and other brutal surgeries. Rena Gelissen's account of her time in Auschwitz details certain experiments performed on female prisoners around October 1943. Mengele would experiment on the chosen girls, performing sterilization and shock treatments. Most of the victims died, either due to the experiments or later infections. According to a website, "Once Mengele's assistant rounded up 14 pairs of Roma twins during the night. Mengele placed them on his polished marble dissection table and put them to sleep. He then injected chloroform into their hearts, killing them instantly. Mengele then began dissecting and meticulously noting each and every piece of the twins' bodies."[4]
At Auschwitz, Mengele did a number of twin studies. After the experiment was over, these twins were usually murdered and their bodies dissected. He supervised an operation by which two Gypsy children were sewn together to create conjoined twins; the hands of the children became badly infected where the veins had been resected, this also caused gangrene.[4]
The subjects of Mengele's research were better fed and housed than ordinary prisoners and were, for the time being, safe from the gas chambers.[8] When visiting his child subjects, he introduced himself as "Uncle Mengele" and offered them sweets. Some survivors remember that despite his grim acts, he was also called "Mengele the protector".[9]
The book Children of the Flames, by Lucette Matalon Lagnado and Shiela Cohn Dekel, chronicles Mengele's medical experimental activities on approximately 3,000 twins who passed through the Auschwitz death camp during World War II until its liberation at the end of the war. Only around 26 pairs of the twins survived; 60 years later, they came forward about the special privileges they were given in Auschwitz owing to Mengele's interest in twins, and how as a result they have suffered, as the children who survived his medical experiments and injections.[4]
In addition to his studies on twins he did a number of horrifying experiments. Once he burned several Jewish prisoners in a gigantic oven to test how long it would take for the human body to get first, second and third degree burns at certain temperatures. He also tested how much force it would require to break a human skull.[citation needed]
Auschwitz prisoner Alex Dekel has said: "I have never accepted the fact that Mengele himself believed he was doing serious work — not from the slipshod way he went about it. He was only exercising his power. Mengele ran a butcher shop — major surgeries were performed without anesthesia. Once, I witnessed a stomach operation — Mengele was removing pieces from the stomach, but without any anesthetic. Another time, it was a heart that was removed, again, without anesthesia. It was horrifying. Mengele was a doctor who became mad because of the power he was given. Nobody ever questioned him — why did this one die? Why did that one perish? The patients did not count. He professed to do what he did in the name of science, but it was a madness on his part".[10]
Hmmm they most of stopped all them human experiments and them pesky aliens took over :rolleyes:
illegal natzi aliens
funny in the US Illegal immigration is some times called illegal aliens
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V-2
nice people
The V-2 rocket (German: Vergeltungswaffe 2) was, according to head of Nazi rocket program Walter Dornberger, the world's first ballistic missile and first human artifact to achieve sub-orbital spaceflight,[3] the progenitor of all modern rockets.[4] Over 3,000 V-2s were launched as military rockets by the German Wehrmacht against Allied targets in World War II, resulting in the death of an estimated 7,250 military personnel and civilians.
An estimated 20,000 inmates at Mittelbau-Dora died constructing V-2s. Of these, 9000 died from exhaustion and collapse, 350 were hanged (including 200 executed for acts of sabotage) and the remainder were either shot or died from disease or starvation.[5]
Post-World War II usage
At the end of the war, a race began between the United States and the USSR to retrieve as many V-2 rockets and staff as possible.[35] Three hundred trainloads[citation needed] of V-2s and parts were captured and shipped to the United States, and 126 of the principal designers, including both Wernher von Braun and Walter Dornberger were in American hands. Von Braun, his brother Magnus von Braun, and seven others decided to surrender to the United States military (Operation Paperclip) to ensure they were not captured by the advancing Soviets.[36]
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/sep/25/usa.secondworldwar
How Bush's grandfather helped Hitler's rise to power
Rumours of a link between the US first family and the Nazi war machine have circulated for decades. Now the Guardian can reveal how repercussions of events that culminated in action under the Trading with the Enemy Act are still being felt by today's president
George Bush's grandfather, the late US senator Prescott Bush, was a director and shareholder of companies that profited from their involvement with the financial backers of Nazi Germany.
The Guardian has obtained confirmation from newly discovered files in the US National Archives that a firm of which Prescott Bush was a director was involved with the financial architects of Nazism.
His business dealings, which continued until his company's assets were seized in 1942 under the Trading with the Enemy Act, has led more than 60 years later to a civil action for damages being brought in Germany against the Bush family by two former slave labourers at Auschwitz and to a hum of pre-election controversy.
are you start to put the dots together
thirdwave
20-07-2009, 12:34 AM
Do you think that they faked the moon landings? and you have a problem with crop circles? when they have spent billions on starwars, son of starwars, weopizing space , haarp ect...
I think its very likely they faked them... but Im pretty confident they can get up their now.. what do you think there UFO disks can do?
I think it was faked just to promote a false way of how they can actually get there...
none of us know of course, we can only speculate... and compare websites.
jamesc
20-07-2009, 04:21 PM
the CIA used the belief of aliens for a cover for stealth aircraft , high altitude parachutes (U2) Roswell etc..... and probley a ton of other stuff illegal human experiments......
If you want me to belief other wise simple.....show my the aliens? ....were are they?
http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/2009/martinsellhill2/martinsell2_26_OH.jpg
also why did the above crop circle stop when there was grass at the edge of the field ? does microwaves not bend grass??? why did not some other mystery phoneme carry into the grass????
What makes you not think that what ever created that formation WANTED to stop that part of the formation were it meets the grass???My questions to you were about COVER UPS and for you to PROVE that there is NO
POSSIBILITIES AT ALL for there ever being cover ups in the past or present??What makes you so sure that there is no possible way of advanced ET civilisations mocking ,matching and transcending WHAT WE KNOW OFF in our technology capabilities at the present time??Were is your proof that no formations at all could possibly be of ET origin .Also i am not discounting some sort of military technology for some of these formations but not all of them, that is how opened minded i am , you need to be given the high complexity and symbolic nature of some of these formations.Why would the agencies that work behind the scenes want to do so much symbolism that is contained in some of these formations and how is it not possible that some of this
technology making some of these formations is not ET in origin??:confused::rolleyes:
thirdwave
20-07-2009, 04:25 PM
What makes you not think that what ever created that formation WANTED to stop that part of the formation were it meets the grass???My questions to you were about COVER UPS and for you to PROVE that there is NO
POSSIBILITIES AT ALL for there ever being cover ups in the past or present??What makes you so sure that there is no possible way of advanced ET civilisations mocking ,matching and transcending WHAT WE KNOW OFF in our technology capabilities at the present time??Were is your proof that no formations at all could possibly be of ET origin .Also i am not discounting some sort of military technology for some of these formations but not all of them, that is how opened minded i am , you need to be given the high complexity and symbolic nature of some of these formations.
Also id the grass was able to be bent flat, then why is he implying that stomp boards could not also carry on into the grass :) .. who ever it was, however it was, obviously neither could not continue the pattern or did not want to...
Did the CIA and others spread disinformation about UFO`s and aliens
ask your self was that because they are working with aliens and in contact with them , or they know they exist
OR They played into the myth of "Flying saucers" making out the were not experimental aircraft probably with natzi technology or scientist involved which would be politically or National security sensitive and anyone that started to investigated could be distracted into Alien,UFO E.T etc....and all they have to do is create/stage a sighting every now and then to keep the cover up.
You have to see how Disinformation works ......think government leaks etc... people are passed documents ect like the MJ12 stuff
thirdwave
20-07-2009, 04:46 PM
Did the CIA and others spread disinformation about UFO`s and aliens
ask your self was that because they are working with aliens and in contact with them , or they know they exist
there is no doubt there is disinfo spread about them... how can this conclude that they are making it ALL up.
OR They played into the myth of "Flying saucers" making out the were not experimental aircraft probably with natzi technology or scientist involved which would be politically or National security sensitive and anyone that started to investigated could be distracted into Alien,UFO E.T etc....and all they have to do is create/stage a sighting every now and then to keep the cover up.
But there have been ex military peeps already confirme that the military have their own UFOs... this is not being denied..
there is a guy up on trial for hacking into there network and seeing there craft... he too also believes they are of an Alien origin.
You have to see how Disinformation works ......think government leaks etc... people are passed documents ect like the MJ12 stuff
if there was a ETE cover up, how do you think it would be put in place?
I am more concerned with the man made technology that we know about or in development in black projects witch the US will spend 50 billion on next year alone they spent 40 billion+ this year
If you are still worried about Aliens, UFO`s(non man made) then you are a fool.
saying its possible could be ALiens or E. T does F all for me.
because is obvious to me its a cover for advance technology aircraft/direct energy/unwitting human experiments basically the natzi did not get beat they just moved to the US and have carried on.........you can just fantasize about Aliens or UFO`s if you want
jamesc
20-07-2009, 05:03 PM
Did the CIA and others spread disinformation about UFO`s and aliens
ask your self was that because they are working with aliens and in contact with them , or they know they exist
OR They played into the myth of "Flying saucers" making out the were not experimental aircraft probably with natzi technology or scientist involved which would be politically or National security sensitive and anyone that started to investigated could be distracted into Alien,UFO E.T etc....and all they have to do is create/stage a sighting every now and then to keep the cover up.
You have to see how Disinformation works ......think government leaks etc... people are passed documents ect like the MJ12 stuff
I can see were you are coming from on the disinformation points you have raised and i for one would not rule out disinformation being a part of it but again not ALL.As you know disinformation is facts/truth mixed with deceit and lies in order to confuse and cover up .Of course the NWO agencies past and present will use any means of disinformation that suits there advancements of there agendas at any given opportunity, be it crop formation,UFOs or abductee witnesses .The point here is that when does one differentiate and even know when real UFO sightings ect are taking place, what is the common
dominator here??My answer to this is the witnesses themselves, the very high complexity of some crop formations and the symbolic messages they contain.Also when a man like Dr John Mack.(who started off as a sceptic and only took these cases on out of curiosity at the beginning), started to find real substances and patterns of ,"actual experiences" and not mental ,
emotional or delusional dysfunctions in his case studies of abduction, these facts have led me to think that's when you start to really take notice.His book ,"Pass Port To The Cosmos", is a real investigation from a man experienced in his field of
psychiatry and takes the form of a experienced man suddenly realising that these people claiming unearthly encounters are describing real experiancies and not dreams ,illusions or signs of mental heath anomalies.There is more than meets the eye on UFOs, crop formations and abductions and for me personally it is not all secret black opp programmes.:cool:(that the agencies:rolleyes::D behind the puppet governments would like us to believe).
so there no experimental aircraft , no mind control experiments going on, theres no MILAB ,
so aliens are running the show, and pulling the stings, so don`t blame your government , and try to sue them its Aliens , so if you think its the military testing a dew or other weapon it an alien zapping you from a UFO , if you here a voice in your head you are mental ill or an alien technology doing it not these admitted microwave hearing effect "voice of god" it aliens again
so anything unexplained or not to be admit is down to aliens then?
http://www.susanblackmore.co.uk/journalism/ns94.html
For the first ten minutes or so nothing seemed to happen .To tell the truth I felt rather daft. Instructed to describe aloud anything that happened I did not know what to say and felt under pressure to say something - anything. Then suddenly all my doubts were gone. "I’m swaying. It’s like being on a hammock." Then it felt for all the world as though two hands had grabbed my shoulders and were bodily yanking me upright. I knew I was still lying in the reclining chair, but someone, or something, was pulling me up.
Something seemed to get hold of my leg and pull it, distort it, and drag it up the wall. I felt as though I had been stretched half way up to the ceiling.
Then came the emotions. Totally out of the blue, but intensely and vividly, I felt suddenly angry - not just mildly cross but that sort of determinedly clear-minded anger out of which you act - only there was nothing and no one to act on. After perhaps ten seconds it was gone but later was replaced by an equally sudden fit of fear. I was just suddenly terrified - of nothing in particular. Never in my life have I had such powerful sensations coupled with the total lack of anything to blame them on. I was almost looking around the little room to find who was doing it.
Of course, I knew that it was all caused by the magnetic field changes but what, I wondered, would I feel if such things happened spontaneously. What if I woke in the middle of the night with all those feelings? I knew I would want, above all, to find an explanation, to find out who had been doing it to me. To have such powerful feelings and no reason for them is horrible. You feel as if you are going mad. If someone told me an alien was responsible and invited me to join an abductees’ support group, I might well prefer to believe the idea; rather than accept I was going mad.
An explanation in terms of brain events would be better still. So, until we understand the brain better, and until we learn to accept that things that seem real need not be, we cannot blame people for interpreting their weird experiences as abductions.
One last thought. Persinger applied a silent and invisible force to my brain and so created a specific experience for me. He claimed he was imitating the basic sequences of the processes of memory and perception and that, by varying those sequences, he could control my experience. Could he have done it from a distance? Could it be done on a wider scale? Suddenly prospects of magnetic mind control seem an awful lot worse than the idea of being abducted by imaginary aliens.
I think a lot of this is to make things "physiological disappear" its not a experimental aircraft its an UFO etc........you were not illegal experimented on , aliens abducted you etc......
And Aliens don`t exsist or do live on there own planet ect....so you can`t prove diddly shit , you just ponder about aliens and what they are like,when they are going to revile themselves , etc....
Plus all you UFO believer quickly forget somebody being abused and get all excited about it waving some testimony about claim its prove of Alien's when in fact somebody has been abused psychological weather its by "aliens" or what I strongly believe or own government agency/ military black op
hagbard_celine
20-07-2009, 05:52 PM
the CIA used the belief of aliens for a cover for stealth aircraft , high altitude parachutes (U2) Roswell etc..... and probley a ton of other stuff illegal human experiments......
If you want me to belief other wise simple.....show my the aliens? ....were are they?
http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/2009/martinsellhill2/martinsell2_26_OH.jpg
also why did the above crop circle stop when there was grass at the edge of the field ? does microwaves not bend grass??? why did not some other mystery phoneme carry into the grass????
Yeah, it's as if part of it is missing.:confused::( Was it a victim of the "erasers"? http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=69662 If so is any of it left now? Hope so because it's beautiful and fascinating. It would be a crime to destroy it.
right you Alien and UFO believers were are the aliens, where is there influence in mans evolution ...were is it? all I see is propaganda, Hollywood/media, popular culture , hoax videos, eyewitness that could of been down to something else and 1 or 2 unexplained sightings/experiences
The "belief" is far greater than the actual evidence , why is that?
hagbard_celine
20-07-2009, 06:55 PM
right you Alien and UFO believers were are the aliens, where is there influence in mans evolution ...were is it? all I see is propaganda, Hollywood/media, popular culture , hoax videos, eyewitness that could of been down to something else and 1 or 2 unexplained sightings/experiences
The "belief" is far greater than the actual evidence , why is that?
Deca, I'm sure the things you talk about are true; in fact I know they are. But it's not a case of "either...or..." It's not the aliens or govt energy weapons. When all the truth eventually comes out I bet we'll find that the Crop Circle phenomenon has many sources with lots of copy cat-ing and disinformation.;)
thirdwave
20-07-2009, 07:11 PM
If you are still worried about Aliens, UFO`s(non man made) then you are a fool. Who is saying they are worried about them?
the main issue is that the government/military are hiding things from us and spending tax payers money to do so.. You are the one who seems hell bent on claiming you know the whole truth and nothing but the truth...
Do you really think the military have been creating ETE myths for the last 70 odd years?.. i mean what on earth would be the point in that?... you think that's the reason people have been detracted from the NWO, because everyone is going around for the last 70 odd years worrying about UFOs/ETEs??
I first got to know about the NWO after showing an interest in UFOs... it lead me to the political information... So they are not really doing a very good job!
saying its possible could be ALiens or E. T does F all for me.
Well why should that mean every one should not give a shit about it?...
You are asking people to have blind faith in what you say... when you are simply smearing half of the info and trying the old "ETE believers are either stoner's of idiots" .. which does not rub off nowadays as people that find it hard to believe in the presence of ETE come across as more lost than those who are open to it..
There have been ex military officials that have claimed ETE have helped the military get this amazing technology that we have seen shoot up ... You have no evidence to prove this is not the case other than your strong opinion.... saying its all CIA is simply a cop out.. and it seems to be the tool used by many to fill in the blanks.
because is obvious to me its a cover for advance technology aircraft/direct energy/unwitting human experiments basically the natzi did not get beat they just moved to the US and have carried on.........you can just fantasize about Aliens or UFO`s if you want
It might be obvious to you, but it does not mean its the truth... and it is not Just America that has all this stuff... it is all over the world... not Just Nazi Germany and the USA...
Ok,so why don't they want us to know about UFOs?
thirdwave
20-07-2009, 07:14 PM
right you Alien and UFO believers were are the aliens, where is there influence in mans evolution ...were is it? all I see is propaganda, Hollywood/media, popular culture , hoax videos, eyewitness that could of been down to something else and 1 or 2 unexplained sightings/experiences
The "belief" is far greater than the actual evidence , why is that?
Were is the techknolgy that creates all this stuff?.. that makes people think they have been taken by aliens while there friends expiance the same event.... that can create perfect patterns in the crops?
where is this gear?..
I have seen all your CIA websites going on about it so people dont belive its ETEs...
but where is it?
(you see it works both ways)
If they really want people to believe ETEs are around, then why have they not faked an Alien for us to see?...
Why not confirmed a UFO visit?
Deca, I'm sure the things you talk about are true; in fact I know they are. But it's not a case of "either...or..." It's not the aliens or govt energy weapons. When all the truth eventually comes out I bet we'll find that the Crop Circle phenomenon has many sources with lots of copy cat-ing and disinformation.;)
what is it 45% alien. 45% government/military 10% other ?
why is nobody concerned about government/military "activity's"
hagbard_celine
20-07-2009, 07:20 PM
what is it 45% alien. 45% government/military 10% other ?
why is nobody concerned about government/military "activity's"
From what I've seen I think most forum members are very concerned about government/military "activity's". As for the ratio of how much is alien and how much is govt/military? I've no idea of the exact figures.:confused:
romas
20-07-2009, 07:34 PM
If you are still worried about Aliens, UFO`s(non man made) then you are a fool.
deca your own "beliefs" are just as outlandish, United States corporate military has everything, they are all powerful, the most secret and intelligent institution! they can pull amazing feats all over the world without anyone ever finding out anything about them! They look like aliens, they act like aliens, yet they are nazies, who love Jews and hate Arabs!
Just stop this rude, pretentious hypocrisy. If I didn't think you were a little crazy I would say you are military disinfo agent.
Were is the techknolgy that creates all this stuff?.. that makes people think they have been taken by aliens while there friends expiance the same event.... that can create perfect patterns in the crops?
where is this gear?..
http://www.shaktitechnology.com/koren_helmet.gif
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_helmet
The term God Helmet refers to a controversial experimental apparatus in neurotheology. The apparatus, placed on the head of an experimental subject, stimulates the brain with magnetic fields. Some subjects reported experiences similar to spiritual experiences.[1] The leading researcher in this area is Michael Persinger. Persinger uses a modified snowmobile helmet or a head-circlet device nicknamed the Octopus that contain solenoids which create a weak but complex magnetic field over the brain's right-hemisphere parietal and temporal lobes. Persinger reports that at least 80 percent of his participants experience a presence beside them in the room, which they variously say feels like God, or someone they knew who had died.
http://www.shaktitechnology.com/god_helmet.htm
But don`t be fooled by the helmet its the weak low complex magnetic signals that actually cause the effects, these can be caused natural and have been detected were people have "hunting" experiences also EMF has been known to cause feelings of being watched and uneasy
You can even buy one
http://www.shaktitechnology.com/
http://www.shaktitechnology.com/shiva/shiva_head2.jpg
My name is Todd Murphy, and I'm a Behavioral Neuroscientist associated with Dr. Michael Persinger. Most of my ideas and publications are based on his work, although my emphasis is on the spiritual aspects of neuroscience, and like all researchers, I see things through my own eyes. That means I take a scientific approach, not a clinical one. (I am solely responsible for the contents of this website.)
My main interest is in understanding how the brain contributes to mystic, religious, and spiritual experiences. I want to use this understanding to find ways to induce them for those who need them, as well as understanding the transformations that follow when people have them unexpectedly. Unlike many of my colleagues, I am not closed to psychic phenomena, tales of miracles, visitations by angels, and other experiences. I accept that these are real experiences, even though I may not be able to accept many of the traditional explanations for them. I hope the articles and technology on this page are able to contribute to your spiritual process.
Obviously these are near field devices I sure they have the capability to create these low complex magnetic signals at distance
Microwave ray gun controls crowds with noise
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn14250
A US company claims it is ready to build a microwave ray gun able to beam sounds directly into people's heads.
The device - dubbed MEDUSA (Mob Excess Deterrent Using Silent Audio) - exploits the microwave audio effect, in which short microwave pulses rapidly heat tissue, causing a shockwave inside the skull that can be detected by the ears. A series of pulses can be transmitted to produce recognisable sounds.
The device is aimed for military or crowd-control applications, but may have other uses.
what are the other uses?
also there is "Bioeffects of Selected Non-Lethal Weaponry" witch list a few weapons that effects brain function etc....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave_auditory_effect
possible one of the weapons used to create crop circles
http://www.ovnis.atfreeweb.com/images/habeWeb.jpg
The Sagebrush Technology corporation, based near the Kirtland facility, is the firm responsible for building the support structure and orientation system for the laser cannon used in the HABE programme (see fig. 7-b). A gyroscopic system allows considerable stability in the focusing of the impact point on the target in spite of the movements of the balloon, whose speed can reach up to 70 metres per second parallel to the equator (remembering that the missile being aimed at is itself moving). The electronic system on board has to ensure a constant correcting of the angle of firing during the latter, the firing itself only needing barely a second before the laser succeeds in piercing the nose cone of the missile. The directional precision of the laser is within 10 micro radians, which is altogether remarkable
This piece of equipment weighs around 4 tons and can function between +40°C (104°F) and -50°C (-58°F). At the end of a mission the device is recovered by severing the cable connecting it to the balloon and deploying its parachute. It can withstand a shock of 10g (1g = 9.81 m/s2) when landing on the ground or in the sea.
The reader will easily understand that this sophistication of technology is more than sufficient to achieve the desired results. One need only replace the laser being used by a maser, in order to draw crop circles
I have seen all your CIA websites going on about it so people dont belive its ETEs...
but where is it?
(you see it works both ways)
If they really want people to believe ETEs are around, then why have they not faked an Alien for us to see?...
Why not confirmed a UFO visit?
Apart from what they do bits here and there ...I think they are planing a staged alien invasion and Blue beam projects ....
deca your own "beliefs" are just as outlandish, United States corporate military has everything, they are all powerful, the most secret and intelligent institution! they can pull amazing feats all over the world without anyone ever finding out anything about them! They look like aliens, they act like aliens, yet they are nazies, who love Jews and hate Arabs!
Just stop this rude, pretentious hypocrisy. If I didn't think you were a little crazy I would say you are military disinfo agent.
do you believe they faked the moon landings or not?
faked WMD in IRAQ or 911 ?
thirdwave
20-07-2009, 07:48 PM
possible one of the weapons used to create crop circles
http://www.ovnis.atfreeweb.com/images/habeWeb.jpg
how? , your so sure... how does it work?, how does that create this..
http://www.soulsofdistortion.nl/images/Crop_Circle_spirals.jpg
Please dont sent me a 10 page essay.... if you know then a few sentences containing your knowledge would be fine..
how? , your so sure... how does it work?, how does that create this..
http://www.soulsofdistortion.nl/images/Crop_Circle_spirals.jpg
Please dont sent me a 10 page essay.... if you know then a few sentences containing your knowledge would be fine..
The electronic system on board has to ensure a constant correcting of the angle of firing during the latter, the firing itself only needing barely a second before the laser succeeds in piercing the nose cone of the missile. The directional precision of the laser is within 10 micro radians, which is altogether remarkable.
think about it these things are built to target ICM`s and knock them out, they can target persicly and at speed, possible so they can knock out muiltable targets, But probably they could feed in a test pattern to test its aim firing capability also they are probably done with "maser" basically think laser but with microwaves.
A maser is a device that produces coherent electromagnetic waves through amplification due to stimulated emission. Historically the term came from the acronym "Microwave Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation", although modern masers emit over a broad portion of the electromagnetic spectrum. This has led some to replace "microwave" with "molecular" in the acronym, as suggested by Charles H. Townes.[1] When optical coherent oscillators were first developed, they were called optical masers, but it has become more common to refer to these as lasers. See the section on terminology below for more on this.
http://www.ovnis.atfreeweb.com/7_habe_crime_weapon.htm
http://www.ovnis.atfreeweb.com/images/habeUSAF.jpg
The Crime Weapon Identified Version française
Translation by George Hoskins
After a good deal of research we have discovered a device capable of being the one used today for the technical production of "UFOs". Without a doubt, this equipment would also be perfectly suitable for the creation of crop circles by means of a microwave beam. It did not, of course, appear suddenly from one day to the next, and one may suppose that several generations of similar and increasingly sophisticated devices preceded it over the decades, in parallel with the growing complexity of the UFO phenomenon.
This equipment is the result of the American research programme "High-Altitude Balloon Experiment (HABE)", the objective of which is to simulate high in the atmosphere the use of laser beams intended to destroy enemy ballistic missiles in their boost phase. Before being ultimately put into orbit around the earth within the framework of the "Star Wars" programme or on board an aeroplane, these lasers are attached to stratospheric balloons, which rise to an altitude of 30 kilometres or so, in order to test their technology at least cost (fig. 7-a). This programme is directed by the "Air Force Research Laboratory’s Space Vehicles Directorate" from the Kirtland airbase in New Mexico on behalf of the "Ballistic Missile Defense Organization". The tests being conducted involve the location of the target, its tracking and its destruction by means of a laser.
Fig. 7-a: implementation of the HABE programme
photo courtesy of US Air Force, Kirtland AFB
According to the Air Force, stratospheric balloons have many advantages:
They are not costly.
They are very reliable.
With the aid of a small mobile crane they can be launched from almost anywhere.
They can be deployed and in position within hours.
They can continue to fly for dozens of days in a row.
Unlike an aeroplane they do not vibrate, something which is particularly important for the correct functioning of the materials on board.
They are silent, and almost invisible despite having a horizontal extension of up to 150 metres in length once they are in position at altitude, their progressive expansion being caused by the lowering of air pressure as they continue to climb. An object with a width of 150 metres at a distance of 30 kilometres presents a visible surface to the observer of about 4 times less than that of the full moon.
They are ideal for visual surveillance (by video camera), or surveillance using infrared, ultraviolet or radar systems.
The balloons can be followed continuously with the help of the GPS (Global Positioning System).
The Sagebrush Technology corporation, based near the Kirtland facility, is the firm responsible for building the support structure and orientation system for the laser cannon used in the HABE programme (see fig. 7-b). A gyroscopic system allows considerable stability in the focusing of the impact point on the target in spite of the movements of the balloon, whose speed can reach up to 70 metres per second parallel to the equator (remembering that the missile being aimed at is itself moving). The electronic system on board has to ensure a constant correcting of the angle of firing during the latter, the firing itself only needing barely a second before the laser succeeds in piercing the nose cone of the missile. The directional precision of the laser is within 10 micro radians, which is altogether remarkable.
Fig. 7-b: support structure and laser cannon
photo courtesy of Sagebrush Technology
This piece of equipment weighs around 4 tons and can function between +40°C (104°F) and -50°C (-58°F). At the end of a mission the device is recovered by severing the cable connecting it to the balloon and deploying its parachute. It can withstand a shock of 10g (1g = 9.81 m/s2) when landing on the ground or in the sea.
The reader will easily understand that this sophistication of technology is more than sufficient to achieve the desired results. One need only replace the laser being used by a maser, in order to draw crop circles, or by a small particle cannon capable of generating "UFOs", and to reprogram the steering of these devices as required. Microwaves and particle beams are also weapons which greatly interest the military and which are bound to be tested from an aerial platform before being put into orbit. If it is somehow difficult to conceive of the military developing a technology specifically for the production of UFO phenomena, it is thus much easier to think that this technology could represent nothing more than the "reprocessing" of advances originating in other areas of research.
The advantage of using a stratospheric balloon over a dirigible balloon is that the former, with its scientific role, is authorised permanently to overfly those countries which have signed international agreements, when it moves parallel to the equator, without the need for giving precise details as to the kind of tests being carried out. This may allow the American military to make crop circles in the south of England or to set up a wave of UFOs above Belgium without having to explicitly inform the allied government concerned. New perspectives of investigation thus become apparent. It would be very interesting, for example, to research a correlation between the overfly of Belgian territory by foreign (or Belgian) balloons and the many sightings of "triangles" during the wave of 1989-1993, since the Belgian military, very co-operative with ufologist investigators, seems to know nothing about these appearances (see first part chapter 4). Could it be a case of balloons originating from American bases in Germany? And where France is concerned, we would like to know the nationality of all the balloons which were flying over France on the 5th November 1990 at around 7 pm. It is regrettable that this kind of information is considered "defence material" and classified.
A stratospheric balloon normally circumvents the earth in less than a fortnight, with greater rapidity the higher the latitude, where the distance travelled is obviously shorter. In the northern hemisphere it moves eastwards in summer and westwards for the rest of the year. Its trajectory is easier to predict in summer, since it is regular and oscillates only between + or - 5° latitude. It is therefore wholly possible to pass several times directly above southern England during the period of the year in which crop circles appear. A small calculation becomes necessary, however, with regard to the creation of these circles, which has to be carried out in less than a minute according to certain of the witness statements which have been gathered (see first part chapter 5). During this elapse of time, our balloon will have been able to travel a distance of 60 sec x (up to) 70 metres per second, i.e. a distance of about 4 kilometres. Since it is at an altitude of around 30 kilometres, that represents an angular movement of Atn 4/30 = around 8°, or around 4° on both sides of the vertical of the crop circle, which does not pose any particular problem. Indeed, when compared with the height of a stalk of ripe wheat (around 90 cm), that implies a maximum inaccuracy of tan 4° x 0.90 cm = around 6 cm for the design on the ground. The creation of increasingly sophisticated crop circles therefore constitutes a very good test of the precision capabilities of the equipment being used. And, while they are about it, why not think of aiming at cattle or human beings, who must be as equally vulnerable to powerful microwaves as stalks of wheat?
hmmm I wounder if you can plot the appearance of crop circles and see if they match a balloons flight path ?
soothseeker
20-07-2009, 08:45 PM
Even if every case of a sighting had terrestrial / military explanations it still does not completely rule out the possibility of ETE's, EBE's and EDE's existing.
You know I find it amazing why some people are so determined to enforce their views and opinions on others and lets face it, that's what they are views and opinions.
Nobody knows the whole truth, it's a physical impossibility and besides that's the job of Oneness
romas
20-07-2009, 08:54 PM
do you believe they faked the moon landings or not?
faked WMD in IRAQ or 911 ?
I fail to see how these things are related(they didn't blame aliens did they?), Iraq is clearly a money siphoning jab. 911 was a perfect pretext to do it. Rumsfeld sold weapons to Saddam and they thought it was still there, maybe Hussein already spent them? Or maybe Rumsfeld isn't as smart as he supposed to be?
Even if every case of a sighting had terrestrial / military explanations it still does not completely rule out the possibility of ETE's, EBE's and EDE's existing.
You know I find it amazing why some people are so determined to enforce their views and opinions on others and lets face it, that's what they are views and opinions.
Nobody knows the whole truth, it's a physical impossibility and besides that's the job of Oneness
believe what you want , but don`t base your beliefs on false premise , These crop circles can be made by man, People are playing on the fact that its seems impossible and exploiting it to push other theory's .
thirdwave
20-07-2009, 10:12 PM
think about it these things are built to target ICM`s and knock them out, they can target persicly and at speed, possible so they can knock out muiltable targets, But probably they could feed in a test pattern to test its aim firing capability also they are probably done with "maser" basically think laser but with microwaves.
http://www.ovnis.atfreeweb.com/7_habe_crime_weapon.htm
http://www.ovnis.atfreeweb.com/images/habeUSAF.jpg
hmmm I wounder if you can plot the appearance of crop circles and see if they match a balloons flight path ?
this is a thieory... it is far from a proven fact...
this is what i am talking about... the way the crops are in some cases have been done with up most care, where the crops are even laid different in diforent parts to create a shade effect...
Now answer me this, if you think it is so possible for Them to do it, why is it impossible for ETEs.. given the HUGE amount of people who claim to have had tangible experiences?
why do you refuse to be open to the concept?
kingmob
20-07-2009, 10:36 PM
Deca has ruined this thread.
Deca has ruined this thread.
was just thinking that this thread is now shite.
can you guys take your discussion and start a new thread please. this is a gallery for new crop circles.
lookfar
20-07-2009, 10:44 PM
Yeah guys, this is all very interesting discussion but this thread is the "Crop Circle Gallery", mainly for posting pics not anything else.
If you want to create a new thread to carry on this talk, then please do so, but can we just leave this one for pics and discussion about the current circles.
Many thanks:)
thirdwave
21-07-2009, 01:08 AM
These crop circles can be made by man,.
this is not fact though... you have seen certain things and have implied that idea to it... although you have posted lots of text... you still dont know it possible to direct that energy in such a way.. as much as you like to think you have...
Im not saying they have not got the tools to do it, I believe they have... but it is not fact.
I believe if they can, its because they have learned about the technology from higher intelligence..
Why have we speed up so quickly in the last few years compared to how slow man progressed previously?
sexi_co
21-07-2009, 01:13 AM
Deca has ruined this thread.
I agree.
Can we please revert back to the original subject.
Tank you please.
:D
sexi_co
21-07-2009, 01:18 AM
Yeah, it's as if part of it is missing.:confused::( Was it a victim of the "erasers"? http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=69662 If so is any of it left now? Hope so because it's beautiful and fascinating. It would be a crime to destroy it.
Yea, it is a bit odd?! I dont think its been erased as the next field along doesnt have traktor lines like a crop field does and the grass doesnt look like its been freshly cut. Could just be a genuine mistake. We all make them.
;)
silvabak
21-07-2009, 02:17 AM
its not even a question now if i can believe aliens made em, my mind cant fathom how man could ever create such perfect symetric works of art without having copters above em guiding the whole way taking ages in the process...
the fact people even still question circle creators is beyond me:confused:
sorry I just said it was done by men with microwaves(fancy ones even the woven ones they can mask out areas then do another pass) or boards & string
I have prove there is technology that could do it ok......every one else keep saying it had to be aliens ok men would not or could not....
sorry I never click you just wanted to look at pics.
I believe there is Alien life on other planets and possible they could or have be on this planet OK....I just have not seen anything that supports they have, just disinformation,hoax's, etc that cover up other goings on ....sorry that's what I believe and have experienced.
Do you really think they are done by aliens? if they were surly or military would seal off the area and figure out what it meant? they would not let possible "alien information" be seen by us until they have work out what it meant?..............stop being suckers
hmm some laser pics........wounder if maser could do the same;)
http://www.markotack.com/images/s-laser01.JPG
http://www.markotack.com/images/s-laser02.JPG
http://www.markotack.com/images/s-laser03.JPG
http://www.markotack.com/images/s-laser04.JPG
http://www.drumza.com/images/AmericanDJEmeraldScanIIGreenLaserScannerStandard.j pg
lookfar
21-07-2009, 08:50 AM
Deca, I'm not gonna ask again, it's been twice already! If you want to carry this discussion on then please create a new thread, otherwise anymore offtopic posts in this one will be removed.
Thanks
Deca, I'm not gonna ask again, it's been twice already! If you want to carry this discussion on then please create a new thread, otherwise anymore offtopic posts in this one will be removed.
Thanks
hows It off topic please explain I just read some of the early post and people were saying these can`t been do by man etc.... others were saying they are complicated but I don`t think aliens would do these pics? I come up with being done by Microwaves and get slated , had to prove the the technology,why etc..... not my fault.
anyway I said my piece again
lookfar
21-07-2009, 09:06 AM
hows It off topic please explain I just read some of the early post and people were saying these can`t been do by man etc.... others were saying they are complicated but I don`t think aliens would do these pics? I come up with being done by Microwaves and get slated , had to prove the the technology,why etc..... not my fault.
anyway I said my piece again
Because, as stated before, it leads off into the UFO/government technology stuff and everyone is getting fed up with the longwinded posts debating the subject in this thread - which is meant to be a "gallery" one.
I'm not saying it's not valid, as it surely is, but just not for this particular thread that's all:)
ok fare enough It was not my intention to take the thread of course , but I had to back my claim ok....I will leave it at that , unless somebody questions what I have already posted.
I will add this,I meant if they questioned what I have posted , I would probably feel I would have to replay and try to answer that Question .....believe what you want.
p.s Thirdwave I told you months ago that I had an open mind when it comes to Aliens < I not try to make you not belief in aliens < but point out the Crop circles are man made also probably alien abductions/experiences are not done by aliens but more likely MILAB/other , Also they are more technology advanced that you would believe.....This really is a serious issues.
I will probably look at this , and start a new thread.
think about if they are done by masers do you think that they are developing them so they can create pretty pics in crop fields? They could just as easily aim at you or your home.
relax
21-07-2009, 03:45 PM
ok fare enough It was not my intention to take the thread of course , but I had to back my claim ok....I will leave it at that , unless somebody questions what I have already posted.
Make a new thread for godsake please dont spam this up any more.
thirdwave
21-07-2009, 03:49 PM
ok fare enough It was not my intention to take the thread of course , but I had to back my claim ok....I will leave it at that , unless somebody questions what I have already posted.
Lets just agree your theories are all right and the rest all wrong... and just say we are all now just pretending to keep an open mind about ETEs and crop circles :)
problem solved.
sexi_co
22-07-2009, 12:05 AM
its not even a question now if i can believe aliens made em, my mind cant fathom how man could ever create such perfect symetric works of art without having copters above em guiding the whole way taking ages in the process...
the fact people even still question circle creators is beyond me:confused:
I know yea? If these are man made, where do they practice? Why do you never find one thats perfect but like a mistake in the corner or something? These things are HUUUGE sometimes, yet can appear in full in 15 mins?! In history, has there ever been an artist that has painted images like these?
What about the circle that predicted a CME (coronal mass ejection) at the start of July weeks before it happened. We cant predict CME's yet a few of us waited a few weeks and 'hey presto' a huge CME at the begining of July.
It might be alot for some people to accept, but in my opionion, some (maybe not all) are created by ET's and furthermore, they have the ability to time travel.
:)
rodin
22-07-2009, 11:18 AM
When examining a crop pattern I suggest always take note of the stems - have they wilted at the node or are they simply broken down? This will differentiate between MASER etched patterns and variations on the plank-and-string method.
Unless you are not interested in the science just the pretty new age pictures
romas
22-07-2009, 01:53 PM
When examining a crop pattern I suggest always take note of the stems - have they wilted at the node or are they simply broken down? This will differentiate between MASER etched patterns and variations on the plank-and-string method.
Unless you are not interested in the science just the pretty new age pictures
Yay fur science jah?
Wtf is MASER etched?
hmmm string board and a portable GPS system I am just woundring if some body before hand could of plotted this out on a map before hand ?
http://www.123farmworks.com/site.htm
Farm Site
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rodin
23-07-2009, 08:05 PM
Yay fur science jah?
Wtf is MASER etched?
MASER is like LASER only microwave wavelengths (longer than visible light).
These can be coherently projected over vast distances and may also be steered just as LASERs are to draw patterns. LASERs use moveable mirrors to create 2D and 3D holographic patterns. Not sure what the reflector of MASER is probably not much different but could be magnetic. Have to ask the US military about that
Strong evidence for :
1/ Place corn stalk in microwave for short burst
Same node softening we see in many crop cirles
2/ These crop circles are recent - appeared after MASER tech was well established. Why not in 19th C? Think about it!
MASERs have military apps and you would expect guided MASERs on satellite platforms for all sorts of purposes
You are meant to think 'Aliens' - hence the New Age symbols, alien pics etc. Some here will be agents promoting this agenda. But consider - we have a real tech that can produce these things to fool people (and test systems).
It is also possible to make decent patterns by hand and there are corporate crop patterns out there also. Every pattern should be checked to see the exact method used to fold stems over - some will be mechanically broken (humans stomping) but many show stem node wilting.
Laptop in for repair so posting limited will get back to 'Dimensions' over the w/end
hagbard_celine
23-07-2009, 10:00 PM
http://www.shaktitechnology.com/koren_helmet.gif
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_helmet
http://www.shaktitechnology.com/god_helmet.htm
But don`t be fooled by the helmet its the weak low complex magnetic signals that actually cause the effects, these can be caused natural and have been detected were people have "hunting" experiences also EMF has been known to cause feelings of being watched and uneasy
Obviously these are near field devices I sure they have the capability to create these low complex magnetic signals at distance
I wouldn't mind having a go on that helmet.:):cool: I remember reading about Persinger, Newburg and their discoveries. It makes me wonder if ANYTHING is real!:eek:
hagbard_celine
23-07-2009, 10:02 PM
Yea, it is a bit odd?! I dont think its been erased as the next field along doesnt have traktor lines like a crop field does and the grass doesnt look like its been freshly cut. Could just be a genuine mistake. We all make them.
;)
Whoever... or whatever... the circlemakers are, it's unlikely they'd make such a massive mistake:confused:. They're usually more accurate than that. Could be another case of crop circle erasing that we say last month in Wiltshire.:(
cruise4
24-07-2009, 02:26 AM
These crop circles are recent - appeared after MASER tech was well established.
Another thing I’m going to be talking about in Zürich is crop circles. I’m going to explain that it goes all the way back to 815 AD. We have documented proof of crop circles going all the way back there.
I’m going to show pictures of diagrams of crop circles from two different sources that were drawn in the 1600s that are very obviously not just regular circles, either. These are complex formations that were documented and printed.
http://divinecosmos.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=482&Itemid=70
I wouldn't mind having a go on that helmet.:):cool: I remember reading about Persinger, Newburg and their discoveries. It makes me wonder if ANYTHING is real!:eek:
remember you can remove a helmet , and let "reality" stimulate your senses.
you can by them
http://www.shaktitechnology.com/
http://www.shaktitechnology.com/shiva/God%20Helmet/koren_left_5_8_sm.jpghttp://www.shaktitechnology.com/shiva/God%20Helmet/koren_right_1_4_sm.jpg
Shiva For "God Helmet" Sessions
Shiva Neural Stimulation System includes software to do sessions that duplicate the procedures used in the famous "God Helmet" experiments.
This is a new software that ships with the Shiva Neural Stimulation System at no extra charge.
Actually, "God Helmet" is a nickname given to the Koren Helmet, developed by Stan Koren and Dr. M.A. Persinger.
This is the only edition of this kind of technology available to the public.
NOTE:
"God Helmet" sessions require sensory deprivation, which includes complete silence.
hmm just noticed that these coils are around the ear? around were microwave hearing effect basically hits you?
I don`t know if they are any good, I have not used them myself
http://www.shaktitechnology.com/shiva/index.htm
This looks interesting I have not look at this at great depth , think I should thou
so I can`t recommend any ok, so do your homework before parting with your cash
http://www.shaktitechnology.com/shiva/index.htm
TECHNOLOGY FOR PSYCHIC SKILLS
$649.00 (US) plus shipping
Shiva is a an example of circumcerebral complex magnetic neural stimulation.
In laboratory experiments, circumcerebral stimulation was able to elicit psychic perceptions from ordinary people and enhance the psychic perceptions of a skilled remote viewer. In unpublished work, circumcerebral stimulation of this kind has been observed to enhance already existing esoteric skills.
It's eight pairs of magnetic coils circle magnetic signals around your head to dampen a specific neural function called "The Binding Factor for consciousness". The binding factor is understood to inhibit skills and senses which are
... ordinarily unavailable.
http://www.shaktitechnology.com/shiva/shiva_head2.jpghttp://www.shaktitechnology.com/shiva/ani_grid_oct.gif
hmm maybe you can stick a few mobile phones to your head and ring them in sequence ......only joking (don`t try)
rodin
24-07-2009, 11:27 AM
These crop circles are recent - appeared after MASER tech was well established.
Another thing I’m going to be talking about in Zürich is crop circles. I’m going to explain that it goes all the way back to 815 AD. We have documented proof of crop circles going all the way back there.
I’m going to show pictures of diagrams of crop circles from two different sources that were drawn in the 1600s that are very obviously not just regular circles, either. These are complex formations that were documented and printed.
http://divinecosmos.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=482&Itemid=70
Photography - invented 19th C. When was the first crop circle photograph of any complexity? Also the development of images is following the same kind of path you see in any short term low grade cultural evolution - from porn to rock to rap etc. Builds on a theme in a logical flow. Hardly the mark of a superadvanced civilisation. More like the mark of the beast from the Satanic ones hijacking yet another 'idea'
Rockefeller is a known Rothschild agent. Rothschilds are very close to the top of the Hoaxes R Us (HRU) aka The Invisible Empire (TIE) pyramid. Bear that in mind here http://www.lightnet.co.uk/informer/mysteries/19990519.htm
There will be agents pushing this tripe s'all I am saying
sexi_co
24-07-2009, 06:48 PM
Whoever... or whatever... the circlemakers are, it's unlikely they'd make such a massive mistake:confused:. They're usually more accurate than that. Could be another case of crop circle erasing that we say last month in Wiltshire.:(
Since posting this, i have seen a picture taken at ground level in one of the circles that is cut off. There is a fence running down the border of the fields and the grass on the other side is around thigh high, so it wasnt erased.
cruise4
25-07-2009, 04:10 AM
Since posting this, i have seen a picture taken at ground level in one of the circles that is cut off. There is a fence running down the border of the fields and the grass on the other side is around thigh high, so it wasnt erased.
Few theories about this I've seen...
1. Wire fence affected it
2. Deliberately made that way to show the level of eclipse in two of the circles
3. Cows seen appearing to be attempting to complete the circle
http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/2009/martinsellhill2/martinsellhill2009b.html
4. Difference in material (crop)
Since posting this, i have seen a picture taken at ground level in one of the circles that is cut off. There is a fence running down the border of the fields and the grass on the other side is around thigh high, so it wasnt erased.
Few theories about this I've seen...
1. Wire fence affected it
2. Deliberately made that way to show the level of eclipse in two of the circles
3. Cows seen appearing to be attempting to complete the circle
http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/2009/martinsellhill2/martinsellhill2009b.html
4. Difference in material (crop)
i think it was the difference in genetic material. ie crop.
rodin
25-07-2009, 01:34 PM
http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/2009/martinsellhill2/P7220330.jpg
Now we can see clearly the effect of using a steerable MASER to create a circle. The MASER is tuned to water such as is held in the stem nodes of corn. I will lay you odds that the adjacent field is grass - without the same stem structure and scale, and hence was not permanently affected by the radiation.
Something caused the pattern to be fired slightly off-target.
Forensic proof microwaves are used
6.
Beer-Lambert Principle. A clear indicator of the electromagnetic nature of the energies which cause node-length change in crop circles is the discovery that, in some formations, node-length change decreases from the center of the circle out to its edges in a very precise manner. In fact, these node-length changes were found to agree with a well-known law in physics -- the Beer-Lambert Principle -- which describes the absorption of EM energy by matter. In these cases the node-length increase was greatest at the center of the circle, decreasing as a function of sampling distance away from the center and toward the perimeter.
http://www.bltresearch.com/plantab.php
sexi_co
25-07-2009, 07:16 PM
Since posting this, i have seen a picture taken at ground level in one of the circles that is cut off. There is a fence running down the border of the fields and the grass on the other side is around thigh high, so it wasnt erased.
Few theories about this I've seen...
1. Wire fence affected it
2. Deliberately made that way to show the level of eclipse in two of the circles
3. Cows seen appearing to be attempting to complete the circle
http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/2009/martinsellhill2/martinsellhill2009b.html
4. Difference in material (crop)
I think it was a genuine mistake.
Im very interested in theory number 3. 'Cows seen appearing to be attempting to complete the circle'.
Firstly, that wouldnt answer why the formation runs over into the next field.
Secondly, that i'd love to see!! :D
I wonder what is meant by that? Are they literally trampleing the grass flat? Maybe they are drawn by electro magnetic fields or something?
I'd love to see how pigeons react around these crop formations, as they use magnetic fields to navigate around.
cruise4
25-07-2009, 08:14 PM
i think it was the difference in genetic material. ie crop.
I've heard something about aquafers or water underground often being linked. Perhaps the boundary, which are rarely arbitrary, suggests an underground fault or something?
Animals like flies, for example are definitely drawn to energy, eg. Monitors, moths to fluorescent lights.
rodin
26-07-2009, 12:15 AM
The Japanese rice patterns were crafted - backs and heart put into it. (Computer aided design though) The MASER patterns are dashed off mechanically also reflective of the souls behind it.
Compare an old church with a post-infiltration Masonic temple. Same difference
The Japs put the reptilians to shame
cruise4
26-07-2009, 12:56 AM
Could you give us a rundown on how masers do this Rodin?
What about the ones in ice and underwater?
rodin
26-07-2009, 12:18 PM
Could you give us a rundown on how masers do this Rodin?
What about the ones in ice and underwater?
Well it's very simple - this is for crop circles. I don't know about ice and underwater - give me yer best linx n I will look in2
Really a MASER behaves exactly like a LASER. As you for a long time know LASERs have been steerable to create large scale images on the sides of buildings. Projection LASERs must be mounted on a stable platform - any judder and the amplified image would go haywire. There are two possible ways a LASER (or MASER) can be mounted on a stable platform over a field.
1. Use a gyroscopically stabilised platform in a standard craft - helicopter, balloon etc
2. Use a satellite mount. I think the latter since the steerable MASER has such obvious military applications.
If you want more on how MASERs work just Google. It is not esoteric tech.
What amazes and dismays me is people keep wasting time debaitng the mystical significance of what is an utter hoax.
edit
a little research for someone - are crop circles appearing worldwide? Do they lie under orbits?
edit
JMHO but those still pushing crop circles as a mystery are either agents or idiots
jamesc
26-07-2009, 02:11 PM
Well it's very simple - this is for crop circles. I don't know about ice and underwater - give me yer best linx n I will look in2
Really a MASER behaves exactly like a LASER. As you for a long time know LASERs have been steerable to create large scale images on the sides of buildings. Projection LASERs must be mounted on a stable platform - any judder and the amplified image would go haywire. There are two possible ways a LASER (or MASER) can be mounted on a stable platform over a field.
1. Use a gyroscopically stabilised platform in a standard craft - helicopter, balloon etc
2. Use a satellite mount. I think the latter since the steerable MASER has such obvious military applications.
If you want more on how MASERs work just Google. It is not esoteric tech.
What amazes and dismays me is people keep wasting time debaitng the mystical significance of what is an utter hoax.
edit
a little research for someone - are crop circles appearing worldwide? Do they lie under orbits?
edit
JMHO but those still pushing crop circles as a mystery are either agents or idiots
And the crop formation that possibly predicted a huge solar burst,(sun spot), from the sun not so long ago when most scientists were unaware that this solar activity was about to happen???
cruise4
26-07-2009, 10:57 PM
Really a MASER behaves exactly like a LASER.
That's what I thought. So how does that lay down crops and interweave them?
Really a MASER behaves exactly like a LASER.
That's what I thought. So how does that lay down crops and interweave them?
If they are using a maser then cold use a "masking" effect and layer it to build up a interweave pattern silgty altering the angle of there beam each pass , to make the stalks bend in a selected patch way to build up a muilty layered circle
don't think the beam acts like a "spot light" light does and laser does not
cruise4
27-07-2009, 01:24 AM
At the crucial moment Deca you seem to be under attack again :D I can't follow that explanation.
At the crucial moment Deca you seem to be under attack again :D I can't follow that explanation.
er how do you mean ?
think they could quite easily mask out a "chequer area" turning maser on/off
then tilt angle of the beam and then beam the mask area from the first pass and mask out the beamed are from the first pass
Timber how do you control the fall of a tree???:confused: cut a wedge maybe
It niggles me that people on here "worship" these ....to me they are advanced 21st "bomb creators" that mark there kills etc.....
http://www.prisonplanet.com/images/may2008/200508kills2.jpg
thirdwave
27-07-2009, 02:19 AM
If they are using a maser then cold use a "masking" effect and layer it to build up a interweave pattern silgty altering the angle of there beam each pass , to make the stalks bend in a selected patch way to build up a muilty layered circle
don't think the beam acts like a "spot light" light does and laser does not
I take it you have also worked at the factory they make them :) ?
sounds it!
the mark
27-07-2009, 02:26 AM
It niggles me that people on here "worship" these ....to me they are advanced 21st "bomb creators" that mark there kills etc.....
[/IMG]
I don't follow that either, are you saying crop circle are 21 century?. Your explaination maybe 21st century, but haven't crop circles been with us for centuries?.
thirdwave
27-07-2009, 02:30 AM
I don't follow that either, are you saying crop circle are 21 century?. Your explaination maybe 21st century, but haven't crop circles been with us for centuries?.
Yes
hmm I am subjected to advanced technology every second of the day.......you will here about it in about 2030....broadcast to brain etc...synthetic telepathy in case you did not realize it the military complex is 20 odd years advanced of civvy street so there tech would appear to be "alien" or "not of this world" to most
go on show me are complicated crop circle prior to the 21st century? .......
you can`t can you because most are simple made out of wood and string and man has had the technology for century`s
http://www.dcdc-strategictrends.org.uk/viewdoc.aspx?doc=1
also talks about weaponization of space obviously this tech will invent it self in the year 2035 :rolleyes:
Broadcasts to the Brain
By 2035, an implantable information chip could be developed and wired directly to the user’s brain. Information and entertainment choices would be accessible through cognition and might include synthetic sensory perception beamed direct to the user’s senses. Wider related ICT developments might include the invention of synthetic telepathy, including mind-to-mind or telepathic dialogue. This type of development would have obvious military and security, as well as control, legal and ethical, implications.
http://www.dcdc-strategictrends.org.uk/viewdoc.aspx?doc=1
Given current multi-lateral agreements and technical factors, the effective weaponization of space is unlikely before 2020. However, nations will seek to inhibit the use of space by opponents through a combination of electromagnetic manipulation, hard-kill from ground-based sensor and weapon systems, the targeting of supporting ground-based infrastructure and a range of improvised measures. At its most extreme, the weaponization of space may eventually include the development of space-based strike weapons capable of attacking ground-based and other space targets; for example solid metal projectiles travelling at orbital velocities, so-called ‘rods from the gods’. However, this will remain extremely unlikely without the prospect of sustained and extreme deterioration in international relationships and will be technically difficult to achieve before 2020.
http://www.dcdc-strategictrends.org.uk/home.aspx
Welcome to the DCDC Global Strategic Trends Website
Strategic Trends: Introduction
Strategic Trends is an independent view of the future produced by the Development, Concepts and Doctrine Centre (DCDC), a Directorate General within the UK’s Ministry of Defence (MOD). It is a source document for the development of UK Defence Policy.
hmm you will noticed they are not worried about ETE landing :rolleyes:
thirdwave
27-07-2009, 03:09 AM
hmm I am subjected to advanced technology every second of the day.......you will here about it in about 2030....broadcast to brain etc...synthetic telepathy in case you did not realize it the military complex is 20 odd years advanced of civvy street so there tech would appear to be "alien" or "not of this world" to most
go on show me a complicated crop circle prior to the 21st century? .......
you can`t can you because most a simple made out of wood and string and man has had the technology for century`s
Well first of all you cant show me that the pre 21st C CCs were made with wood and string, and there were no reports of anything like that, only reports of priests being asked to bless the field...... and you cant show me that we had the technology back then... just your opinion... and what you clearly want to believe..
But if you are subject to this technology.. then how do you know you are not being mind controlled into thinking how you do..??
If in the next 15 years or so ETE life is confirmed beyond dispute... will you come back and apologise to the forum? :)
Well first of all you cant show me that the pre 21st C CCs were made with wood and string, and there were no reports of anything like that, only reports of priests being asked to bless the field...... and you cant show me that we had the technology back then... just your opinion... and what you clearly want to believe..
But if you are subject to this technology.. then how do you know you are not being mind controlled into thinking how you do..??
If in the next 15 years or so ETE life is confirmed beyond dispute... will you come back and apologise to the forum? :)
why you will be wet wired , chipped/implanted or dead :rolleyes:
I just send you a synthetic telepathic message " I told you".....
thirdwave
27-07-2009, 11:50 AM
why you will be wet wired , chipped/implanted or dead :rolleyes:
I just send you a synthetic telepathic message " I told you".....
But none of those things prove or disprove the existence of ETEs...
What is really odd is how you think all this technology proves there are no ETEs.... its very odd indeed.
Its also odd how you are talking about technology which is way beyond most people can contemplate... and that it has been around for many more years than we think... and yet in this vast universe there are no other beings with technology to come to earth.. or at least close to it.... ?
the truth of the matter is you are happy to except any theory other than one that involves the possibility of ETEs, which for me is a very limited scope to look at... and the conclusions are Limited.
I'm also surprised you have not looked back at Ancient history and not been tempted to except the possibility that people from the sky may have popped down at some point as there are many years that have gone past where civilisations have very much talked about them....
The fact is, is your theories rely on ignoring or discrediting thousands of witnesses... that bring to the table more than you have answers for, you may have ideas to present for some questions but after a while it simply becomes more far fetched than the immediate conclusion, and no more tangible... and the bottom line is, it is about what you find very difficult to believe..... the info you have been fed is very easy for you to believe...
And there are many people who find the official 9/11 story very easy to believe, because learning that its not true means learning reality is very different and most people find that a very hard thing to do.
Have you ever thought maybe the reason these mind control things work so well on humans, and they have so much control over them is because perhaps advanced beings have been experimenting on Humans for a good few years and they are nailing it? .. Hell they might even be able to brainwash us so bad that we still don't know they exist even if they had breakfast with us every morning!... Your all into these things needing to be tested...
The sky is the limit hay?
hagbard_celine
27-07-2009, 01:00 PM
My blood runs cold when I hear of Ogbourne Down Gallop.The place is beyond evil.
Why? What's wrong with it?:confused:
rodin
27-07-2009, 02:28 PM
And the crop formation that possibly predicted a huge solar burst,(sun spot), from the sun not so long ago when most scientists were unaware that this solar activity was about to happen???
Show me the crop circle in question
I bet the 'interpretation' is tenuous
rodin
27-07-2009, 02:30 PM
Yes
No they have not. The pheneomenon was unknown during the age of photography until plank-men then MASER tech. Show me early photograph of a complex crop pattern.
rodin
27-07-2009, 02:34 PM
Really a MASER behaves exactly like a LASER.
That's what I thought. So how does that lay down crops and interweave them?
I know that plants tend to fall in one direction weaving I know not about.
How would I 'directionalise' collapse? Simple. Start from where you want the stems to point towards and work back. The first stems will wilt any which way and be partially supported by neighbours, the next 'rank' will fall towards the space created etc.
Patterns can be scanned in circles, rows etc. I bet the beam width is about the same as stem height.
rodin
27-07-2009, 02:36 PM
Rockenfelder is part of the Zio-Communist One World Government plot.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/347439.stm
thirdwave
27-07-2009, 02:40 PM
No they have not. The pheneomenon was unknown during the age of photography until plank-men then MASER tech. Show me early photograph of a complex crop pattern.
Yes they were, there were reports of crop formations back in the 17th Century... and also righting of pasterns found in fields that were brushed off.... obviously since recent crop circles they hold more weight.
not to mention some art work that was found that looks like orbs creating a formation on the ground... I think it is shown in one of C Everards vids..
thirdwave
27-07-2009, 02:45 PM
I know that plants tend to fall in one direction weaving I know not about.
How would I 'directionalise' collapse? Simple. Start from where you want the stems to point towards and work back. The first stems will wilt any which way and be partially supported by neighbours, the next 'rank' will fall towards the space created etc.
Patterns can be scanned in circles, rows etc. I bet the beam width is about the same as stem height.
there are different behaviour pasterns in different crop circles... that's why its ignorant to assume they are all made by the same methods.. Some are just laid flat, others are barely crushed and within days are almost upright again.... and then there are some that are intertwined and sometimes almost like a basket is made....
some formations even have the crops raised higher on some parts to create a shade effect.
there is a film of a formation being filmed where people camped over night with high tech video and sound systems... and the circle appeared in a 2 hour pitch black period with noting there but a flash of light which was for barely a split second...
Last time I was down Avebury I also heard there was another video made and it was being analysed before release... so that should be interesting if true..
thirdwave
27-07-2009, 02:47 PM
Rockenfelder is part of the Zio-Communist One World Government plot.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/347439.stm
So if you have managed to find this out so easy, could his agenda not be more a case of trying to create distrust by his interest in it?.. and how open he is about the research?
Or do you think he is not aware ever tom dick and harry on the internet knows his back ground?
I dont see it as simple as you do I guess.
and does this also mean that from your logic, if he ends up anouncing he knows for a fact they are all plank jobs, that he is indeed simply hiding the truth?
rodin
27-07-2009, 03:03 PM
Yes they were, there were reports of crop formations back in the 17th Century... and also righting of pasterns found in fields that were brushed off.... obviously since recent crop circles they hold more weight.
not to mention some art work that was found that looks like orbs creating a formation on the ground... I think it is shown in one of C Everards vids..
'reports of' ???
Source docs?
rodin
27-07-2009, 03:05 PM
there are different behaviour pasterns in different crop circles... that's why its ignorant to assume they are all made by the same methods.. Some are just laid flat, others are barely crushed and within days are almost upright again.... and then there are some that are intertwined and sometimes almost like a basket is made....
some formations even have the crops raised higher on some parts to create a shade effect.
there is a film of a formation being filmed where people camped over night with high tech video and sound systems... and the circle appeared in a 2 hour pitch black period with noting there but a flash of light which was for barely a split second...
Last time I was down Avebury I also heard there was another video made and it was being analysed before release... so that should be interesting if true..
Exactly how a MASER pattern would be drawn - silently, at night. Flashlight could be nothing, or maybe an agent sends an 'all clear' signal to the heavenly host? :rolleyes:
edit
oh - and 'different behaviour patterns' - that would be whether the circles were made with Zeta, Arcturian or Atlantean technology - rather than what stage of maturity crop was, MASER power used, scanning technique used and whether a herd of New Agers had trampled over it I suppose?
rodin
27-07-2009, 03:07 PM
So if you have managed to find this out so easy, could his agenda not be more a case of trying to create distrust by his interest in it?.. and how open he is about the research?
Or do you think he is not aware ever tom dick and harry on the internet knows his back ground?
I dont see it as simple as you do I guess.
and does this also mean that from your logic, if he ends up anouncing he knows for a fact they are all plank jobs, that he is indeed simply hiding the truth?
Impression made is he (ie the Rothschild Satan gang) is TAKING THE ISSUE SERIOUSLY
thirdwave
27-07-2009, 03:16 PM
Impression made is he (ie the Rothschild Satan gang) is TAKING THE ISSUE SERIOUSLY
And, you take this as evidence Crop circles are faked... which of course is not the case...
if they wanted us all to believe ETEs where here, then we all would have a long time ago.
you ask for facts and Docs and you have none your self.
do you think the Rothschild are aware of the distrust aimed at them today?
Thirdwave
prove or disprove the existence of ETEs...
Crop circles does not prove or disprove the existence of ETEs.
Its when you like into crop circles , look at the evidence scientifically then they look like they are man made ether hoax with wood and string or done by masers
Also the military have used UFO`s to camouflage the testing of advanced technology before i.e stealth aircraft ok
The orbs could also be part of the DEW`s (direct energy weapons )
Also some of the feelings/sensations that witness get , sounds like microwave sickness.
I not bothered about proving disproving ETE,UFO,Aliens but the illegal use of direct energy weapons.
The thing is all these so called proof looks like black ops using advanced technology i.e Alien abductions,UFO, Crop circles,cattle mutation
And that what the US wanted , if somebody witnessed a strange going on to think it was a Alien doing it instead of a Black op
You belief in ETE great wonderful, stop trying to make out that every unexplained thing is done by them ....as far as I am concerned crop circles are not unexplained and can be man made ......
Were is you proof they are made by ETE`? or is it the fact that some of them look complicated and not man made??? means ETE have done them???
So when somebody points out about microwaves bending crops and masers and advanced targeting systems your non man made thoery goes out the window and most be made by ETE goes with it?
Hey:), I just came over this, looks dodgy but I'll share it anyway.
UFO above Dutch Crop Circle
BLT research team are serious investegators, so if they post this on their own site this can be a bit more trustworthy http://www.bltresearch.com/index.php
Er its a hoax look at its a different size in each photo compared to the background???
thirdwave
27-07-2009, 07:51 PM
Thirdwave
Crop circles does not prove or disprove the existence of ETEs.
Its when you like into crop circles , look at the evidence scientifically then they look like they are man made ether hoax with wood and string or done by masers
Nothing has been proven... it is a possible theory, and be it ETE or Humans, some kind of technology would have to be used anyway, so pointing out what kind does not prove ETEs are not involved...
What does raise the ETE suspicions is the nature of the crop circles .. and the knowledge within them... the reason for them being there..
your reason that years and years and years humans have been useing it for testing.. and want us to believe in ETE, IMO does not make sense..
it is also quite clear that you have not really done allot of in depth research into them as even the human crop circles makers feel there is something very not of this world about them... and that they have seen orbs and even UFOs while making them as well as not always knowing where and why they get an idea from... also losing track of time while making the crop circle..
so it is not simply about little green men in UFOs making them of the government with lazers... there is more to it than both.
Also the military have used UFO`s to camouflage the testing of advanced technology before i.e stealth aircraft ok
You are not making sense here... they may well have UFOs.. many ex military and ex government have testified to this.. but what does it have to do with covering up stealth air craft?.. you have obviously not seen how quick there UFOs can move.. and how many different kinds of UFOs have been reported.
The orbs could also be part of the DEW`s (direct energy weapons )
Maybe.... being the right word.... all you are really doing is explaining the technological side behind stuff and implying because the government has this technology now, that its all them...
ignoring the fact that there has been abduction cases with physical evidence... by the thousands.. ancient descriptions and depictions... as well as official whiteness's testifying to ETE existence...
you simply choose not to believe them and for some reason have a passion to try and stop others from doing so as well...
and your reason is because you think they are being distracted?... well how do you know they are being distracted?.. do you know what we have done this week?
I don't get how you think you know so much from just what you have read on the internet, then you go on about your own experiences, ignoring the experiences of others and brushing them off.
Also some of the feelings/sensations that witness get , sounds like microwave sickness.
Totaly, if UFOs from above the atmosphere have made the circle, they must have used some kind of microwave technology and this could be what some people feel... though there might also be other stuff used as some people have felt wonderful in them and have also felt time go missing..
I not bothered about proving disproving ETE,UFO,Aliens but the illegal use of direct energy weapons.
Thats your own choice... I personly thing both if true, are very important for people to knowe about and ask questions about..
If there is an ETE race helping the government to control us and to over power us, I think it is foolish not to see this as relevant... especially as if it could mean that they are the ones who have taught the secret government about the technology in the first place, I just don't understand why you have such a passion to smear and brush away ETE stuff...
people asking questions about ETEs is not going to turn their attention away to the government possessing technologies that can harm us.... it is a baseless accusation.... why an earth would it??
The thing is all these so called proof looks like black ops using advanced technology i.e Alien abductions,UFO, Crop circles,cattle mutation
This is just your own theory that is not proven and to be honest makes no sense and does not even solve all the puzzles... black ops theory is simply your get out of jail card and all the info you like to push could just as easily be pushed by black ops.
And that what the US wanted , if somebody witnessed a strange going on to think it was a Alien doing it instead of a Black op
Or the info you have come across could imply that they want us to think its a black op....
I think the idea that our government suddenly want us to think they have been hiding Aliens from us that have been helping them create the NWO is very lame...
There have been eye witness's that have seen the same beings... same characteristics.... same smells.... and have even had physical markings and inserts for evidence.. some having them over and over again analysing the experience with help... some cases there have been two people at one having the experiences simultaneously and separately... both seeing the same scenarios..
some people have even gone missing where others have witnessed seeing a UFO with them...
and the beings that appear to be doing it have been depicted in ancient art and by people who have channelled smiler beings in the past..
the theories you can use to discredit all that, are not as tangible as the people and situations being true..
You belief in ETE great wonderful, stop trying to make out that every unexplained thing is done by them ....as far as I am concerned crop circles are not unexplained and can be man made ......
It is who is trying to make out how it is all done, others simply keep their minds open... the truth is
Were is you proof they are made by ETE`?
It may be covered up, this is why people speculate and ask questions.. where is your proof that the ETEs are not relevent and its all techonlogy by man to make us all belive in ETE?
or is it the fact that some of them look complicated and not man made??? means ETE have done them???
lol, you have not got a clue... that is a reason to belive that they are not all made by planks of wood... we already know and have done for a long time that they are made with another technology, you simply want everyone to believe that its still man that done it, and to not be open that ETEs may have been involved....
I personally think it consists of four methods.. and nothing you have showed me has really changed much or brought anything new to the table other than your fear of people believing ETEs maybe be interacting with the planet.
So when somebody points out about microwaves bending crops and masers and advanced targeting systems your non man made thoery goes out the window and most be made by ETE goes with it?
fist of all it is still not a fact that Masers can create such art in crop fields... but I would think it is somthing similer that does create them.. as who ever does make them requires some kind of method...
I have allways thought that some of the circles have been made by the military... as well as men with planks... but I also feel that they were not started by them...
I think before you knew about any of this technology, you would have been swearing blind they were all made by men with planks.... as your coming across very clear... and that is you have a huge issue with people being open to the ETE scenario having anything true to it...
and you simple go by info that could quite easily be a CIA campaign to slow any ETE realisation down...
Prove the ETE whiteness's and government and military officials, are lying?
Prove the people who reported seeing Dead ETE bodies at Roswell were lying.. and answer why the story was changed by the military about 3 times...
Thirdwave you believe in ETE and getting people to believe that some crop circles are not man made is proof of the insistence of ETE`s without crop circles then the evidence for ETE is very little relaying on witness statement's
no wounder you are defensive about ETE making them because you belief falls apart.......sorry I have suggested my thoery which is scientifically possible, and the evidence holds up that thoery ......why sound I have disprove this thoery surly its on you to show your ETE evidence? simple fact you have not got any you hope I bugger myself up.
ETE is very possible , I give you that its just there evidence points to men with wood & string or advanced masers which they have spent billions not anti ETE missiles:rolleyes:
F-117 Nighthawk
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-117_Nighthawk
he F-117 first flew in June 1981, only 31 months after the full-scale development decision. The first production F-117A was delivered in 1982, operational capability was achieved in October 1983, and the last of 59 airplanes was delivered in the summer of 1990.[9] The Air Force denied the existence of the aircraft until 1988, when a grainy photograph was released to the public. In April 1990 two were flown into Nellis Air Force Base, Nevada, arriving during daylight and visible to a crowd of tens of thousands.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b0/F-117_Grey_Dragon.jpg/800px-F-117_Grey_Dragon.jpg
hmm if you say that flying about during the day at the right angle it would look like an UFO....plus no radar signature
Hard to think this aircraft is 30 years old.....plus RADAR like CELLDAR detects these now so its being abandoned.
also check this out
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stealth_aircraft
Background
The first true "stealth" aircraft may have been the Horten Ho 229 flying wing fighter-bomber.[dubious – discuss] In addition to the aircraft's shape, which may not have been a deliberate attempt to affect radar deflection, the majority of the Ho 229's wooden skin was bonded together using carbon-impregnated plywood resins designed with the intention of absorbing radar waves. Testing performed in early 2009 by the Northrop-Grumman Corporation established that this compound, along with the aircraft's shape, would have rendered the Ho 229 virtually invisible to Britain's Chain Home early warning radar, provided the aircraft was traveling at high speed (~550 mph) at extremely low altitude (50-100 feet).[4]
In the closing weeks of WWII the US military initiated "Operation Paperclip", an effort by the US Army to capture as much advanced German weapons research as possible, and also to deny that research to advancing Russian troops. A Horton glider and the Ho 229 number V3 were secured and sent to Northrop Aviation in the United States for evaluation,[4] who much later used a flying wing design for the B-2 stealth bomber. During WWII Northrop had been commissioned to develop a large wing-only long-range bomber (XB-35) based on photographs of the Horton's record-setting glider from the 1930s, but their initial designs suffered controllability issues that were not resolved until after the war. Northrops small one-man prototype (N9M-B) and a Horton wing-only glider are located in the Chino Air Museum in Southern California.
hmm were did the term UFO come from
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_Arnold
He is best-known for making what is generally considered the first widely reported unidentified flying object sighting in the United States
Thirdwave
Prove the ETE whiteness's and government and military officials, are lying?
Prove the people who reported seeing Dead ETE bodies at Roswell were lying.. and answer why the story was changed by the military about 3 times...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roswell_UFO_incident
Pro-UFO advocates dismiss Roswell incident
One of the immediate outcomes of the Air Force reports on the Roswell UFO incident was the decision by some prominent UFO researchers to view the Roswell incident as not involving any alien craft.
While the initial Air Force report was a chief reason for this, another was the release of secret documents from 1948 which showed that top Air Force officials did not know what the UFO objects being reported in the media were and their suspicion they might be Soviet spy vehicles.
In January 1997, Karl T. Pflock, one of the more prominent pro-UFO researchers, said “Based on my research and that of others, I'm as certain as it's possible to be without absolute proof that no flying saucer or saucers crashed in the general vicinity of Roswell or on the Plains of San Agustin in 1947. The debris found by Mac Brazel...was the remains of something very earthly, all but certainly something from the Top Secret Project Mogul....The formerly highly classified record of correspondence and discussions among top Air Force officials who were responsible for cracking the flying saucer mystery from the mid-1940s through the early 1950s makes it crystal clear that they didn't have any crashed saucer wreckage or bodies of saucer crews, but they were desperate to have such evidence..."[32]
Kent Jeffrey, who organized petitions to ask President Bill Clinton to issue an Executive Order to declassify any government information on the Roswell incident, similarly concluded that no aliens were likely involved.[33][34]
William L. Moore, one of the earliest proponents of the Roswell incident, said this in 1997: "After deep and careful consideration of recent developments concerning Roswell...I am no longer of the opinion that the extraterrestrial explanation is the best explanation for this event." Moore was co-author of the first book on Roswell, The Roswell Incident.[35]
Shoddy research revealed; witnesses suspected of hoaxes
Around the same time, a serious rift between two prominent Roswell authors emerged. Kevin D. Randle and Donald R. Schmitt had co-authored several books on the subject and were generally acknowledged, along with Stanton Friedman, as the leading researchers into the Roswell incident.[36] The Air Force reports on the incident suggested that basic research claimed to have been carried out was not carried out,[37] a fact verified in a 1995 Omni magazine article.[38] Additionally, Schmitt claimed he had a bachelor’s degree, a master’s degree and was in the midst of pursuing a doctorate in criminology. He also claimed to be a medical illustrator. When checked, it was revealed he was in fact a letter carrier in Hartford, Wisconsin, and had no known academic credentials. At the same time, Randle publicly distanced himself from Schmitt and his research. Referring to Schmitt’s investigation of witness Dennis’s accounts of a missing nurse at the Roswell base, he said: "The search for the nurses proves that he [Schmitt] will lie about anything. He will lie to anyone... He has revealed himself as a pathological liar... I will have nothing more to do with him."[36]
Additionally, several prominent witnesses were shown to be perpetrating hoaxes, or suspected of doing so. Frank Kaufmann, a major source of alien reports in the 1994 Randle and Schmitt book “The Truth About the UFO Crash at Roswell” and a witness whose testimony it was charged was “ignored” by the Air Force when compiling their reports,[39] was shown, after his 2001 death, to have been forging documents and inflating his role at Roswell. Randle and Mark Rodeigher repudiated Kaufmann’s credibility in two 2002 articles.[40]
Glenn Dennis, who testified that Roswell alien autopsies were carried out at the Roswell base and that he and others were the subjects of threats, was deemed one of the “least credible” Roswell witnesses by Randle in 1998. In Randle and Schmitt’s 1991 book “UFO Crash at Roswell,” Dennis’s story was featured prominently. Randle said Dennis was not credible “for changing the name of the nurse once we had proved she didn't exist.”[41] Dennis’s accounts were also doubted by researcher Pflock.[32]
thirdwave
27-07-2009, 08:48 PM
F-117 Nighthawk
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-117_Nighthawk
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b0/F-117_Grey_Dragon.jpg/800px-F-117_Grey_Dragon.jpg
hmm if you say that flying about during the day at the right angle it would look like an UFO....plus no radar signature
Hard to think this aircraft is 30 years old.....plus RADAR like CELLDAR detects these now so its being abandoned.
also check this out
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stealth_aircraft
hmm were did the term UFO come from
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_Arnold
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roswell_UFO_incident
Hey, you dont need to send me any more bullshit cover ups for Roswell, they have been creating them since the day it happened though it has not shut up the ageing eye witness's.
im perfectly aware the military have tried to cover it up! :), And i an confident you would swallow any cover up story they fed you, and would grasp it with both hads... Me I have no interest in any official words they have to say on the matter.
as for that stealth Jet... of course not all UFOs spotted are anything weird, in fact most are probably objects that can be explained...
But this Jet you have posted does not move across the sky in a split second... does not disappear... and it is not silent.
again you think a trendy Jet the military use for secret ops is the answer for UFOs?
lol, nice try.
I have seen one with my own eyes... :) .. might have been a military flying saucer, yeah... But I fail to see how that proves ETEs dont have and use them... Im sure you will fill me in though!
jamesc
27-07-2009, 08:59 PM
Nothing has been proven... it is a possible theory, and be it ETE or Humans, some kind of technology would have to be used anyway, so pointing out what kind does not prove ETEs are not involved...
What does raise the ETE suspicions is the nature of the crop circles .. and the knowledge within them... the reason for them being there..
your reason that years and years and years humans have been useing it for testing.. and want us to believe in ETE, IMO does not make sense..
it is also quite clear that you have not really done allot of in depth research into them as even the human crop circles makers feel there is something very not of this world about them... and that they have seen orbs and even UFOs while making them as well as not always knowing where and why they get an idea from... also losing track of time while making the crop circle..
so it is not simply about little green men in UFOs making them of the government with lazers... there is more to it than both.
You are not making sense here... they may well have UFOs.. many ex military and ex government have testified to this.. but what does it have to do with covering up stealth air craft?.. you have obviously not seen how quick there UFOs can move.. and how many different kinds of UFOs have been reported.
Maybe.... being the right word.... all you are really doing is explaining the technological side behind stuff and implying because the government has this technology now, that its all them...
ignoring the fact that there has been abduction cases with physical evidence... by the thousands.. ancient descriptions and depictions... as well as official whiteness's testifying to ETE existence...
you simply choose not to believe them and for some reason have a passion to try and stop others from doing so as well...
and your reason is because you think they are being distracted?... well how do you know they are being distracted?.. do you know what we have done this week?
I don't get how you think you know so much from just what you have read on the internet, then you go on about your own experiences, ignoring the experiences of others and brushing them off.
Totaly, if UFOs from above the atmosphere have made the circle, they must have used some kind of microwave technology and this could be what some people feel... though there might also be other stuff used as some people have felt wonderful in them and have also felt time go missing..
Thats your own choice... I personly thing both if true, are very important for people to knowe about and ask questions about..
If there is an ETE race helping the government to control us and to over power us, I think it is foolish not to see this as relevant... especially as if it could mean that they are the ones who have taught the secret government about the technology in the first place, I just don't understand why you have such a passion to smear and brush away ETE stuff...
people asking questions about ETEs is not going to turn their attention away to the government possessing technologies that can harm us.... it is a baseless accusation.... why an earth would it??
This is just your own theory that is not proven and to be honest makes no sense and does not even solve all the puzzles... black ops theory is simply your get out of jail card and all the info you like to push could just as easily be pushed by black ops.
Or the info you have come across could imply that they want us to think its a black op....
I think the idea that our government suddenly want us to think they have been hiding Aliens from us that have been helping them create the NWO is very lame...
There have been eye witness's that have seen the same beings... same characteristics.... same smells.... and have even had physical markings and inserts for evidence.. some having them over and over again analysing the experience with help... some cases there have been two people at one having the experiences simultaneously and separately... both seeing the same scenarios..
some people have even gone missing where others have witnessed seeing a UFO with them...
and the beings that appear to be doing it have been depicted in ancient art and by people who have channelled smiler beings in the past..
the theories you can use to discredit all that, are not as tangible as the people and situations being true..
It is who is trying to make out how it is all done, others simply keep their minds open... the truth is
It may be covered up, this is why people speculate and ask questions.. where is your proof that the ETEs are not relevent and its all techonlogy by man to make us all belive in ETE?
lol, you have not got a clue... that is a reason to belive that they are not all made by planks of wood... we already know and have done for a long time that they are made with another technology, you simply want everyone to believe that its still man that done it, and to not be open that ETEs may have been involved....
I personally think it consists of four methods.. and nothing you have showed me has really changed much or brought anything new to the table other than your fear of people believing ETEs maybe be interacting with the planet.
fist of all it is still not a fact that Masers can create such art in crop fields... but I would think it is somthing similer that does create them.. as who ever does make them requires some kind of method...
I have allways thought that some of the circles have been made by the military... as well as men with planks... but I also feel that they were not started by them...
I think before you knew about any of this technology, you would have been swearing blind they were all made by men with planks.... as your coming across very clear... and that is you have a huge issue with people being open to the ETE scenario having anything true to it...
and you simple go by info that could quite easily be a CIA campaign to slow any ETE realisation down...
Prove the ETE whiteness's and government and military officials, are lying?
Prove the people who reported seeing Dead ETE bodies at Roswell were lying.. and answer why the story was changed by the military about 3 times...
Great post my friend and so very true.What kind of arrogance or ignorance would view the posibilty of there being no possibility of ET ADVANCED races having something to do wit crop formations.You are right about Roswell,WHY did they change the story 3 TIMES and what of all the witness statements too, to many smoking guns for my liking.
I remember seeing this guy on TV and believed him about ETE when I was growing up
Stanton Terry Friedman CIA agent
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/17/PI5Send1.Jpg/130px-PI5Send1.Jpg
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread334798/pg1
(26) Friedman, Stanton (possibly the most famous active UFO researcher):
The first edition of Jacques Vallee’s journals include a reference to a rumour that the McDonnel-Douglas company “have a secret team, employing a physicist named Stanton Friedman to collect physical data in a hush-hush manner” (see Footnote A). Stanton Friedman’s name is mysteriously omitted from the relevant sentence of the later softcover edition of the book, with no indication of any redaction (see Footnote B). A document by Stanton Friedman relating to the McDonnel-Douglas UFO project can be found online at Footnote C (with further little known documents relating to that project at Footnote D). Furthermore, Bill Cooper (see entry above on Bill Cooper) has revealed that Stanton Friedman is “CIA all the way” and that he saw Naval Intelligence documents which give this researcher’s name as an active intelligence agency asset [see Footnote D]. Paul Kimball (a Canadian film-maker) has written that "... Friedman is highly suspect, and probably an agent of the government… " (see Footnote E).
[Footnote A] Discussed by Jacques Vallee in his “Forbidden Science: Journals 1957-1969.” (1992) at page 304 (in Chapter 15, journal entry for 1967.0802) of the North Atlantic Books hardback edition.
[Footnote B] Omitted from the relevant entry in the 1996 Marlowe paperback edition of “Forbidden Science: Journals 1957-1969” (on page 307).
[Footnote C] See:
************...
[Footnote D] See:
www.checktheevidence.com...
[Footnote E] Discussed by William Cooper in his “Behold a Pale Horse” (1991) at pages 224, 226, 228, 220 (in Chapter 12) of the Light Technology softcover edition.
[Footnote F] See:
redstarfilms.blogspot.com...
elton
27-07-2009, 09:07 PM
Great post my friend and so very true.What kind of arrogance or ignorance would view the posibilty of there being no possibility of ET ADVANCED races having something to do wit crop formations.You are right about Roswell,WHY did they change the story 3 TIMES and what of all the witness statements too, to many smoking guns for my liking.
There is no way the latest circles are made by humans with boards or Masers. They must be ET in origin.
Great post my friend and so very true.What kind of arrogance or ignorance would view the posibilty of there being no possibility of ET ADVANCED races having something to do wit crop formations.You are right about Roswell,WHY did they change the story 3 TIMES and what of all the witness statements too, to many smoking guns for my liking.
what kind of half wit would think Aliens with advanced technology would come here to doddle in crop fields :rolleyes:
Aurora (aircraft)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aurora_(aircraft)
According to the hypothesis, the Aurora was developed in the 1980s or 1990s as a replacement for the aging and expensive SR-71 Blackbird. A British Ministry of Defence report from May 2006, released under the Freedom of Information Act, refers to USAF priority plans to produce a Mach 4–6 highly supersonic vehicle.[2] In September 2007, DARPA and the USAF signed a memo of understanding[3] to build a Mach-6 unmanned aircraft called "Blackswift" under the Force Application and Launch from Continental United States (FALCON)[4] program, but that does not explain the earlier reports. It is believed by some[who?] that the Aurora project was canceled due to a shift from spyplanes to high-tech unmanned aerial vehicles and reconnaissance satellites which can do a similar job as a spyplane, but with less risk of casualties or loss of highly expensive, sensitive equipment.
you might of seen a UAV
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unmanned_aerial_vehicle
An unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV), commonly referred to as a drone[1] is a remotely piloted aircraft. UAVs come in two varieties: some are controlled from a remote location, and others fly autonomously based on pre-programmed flight plans using more complex dynamic automation systems. Currently, UAVs perform reconnaissance as well as attack missions.[2] While many successful drone attacks on militants have been reported, they also "often kill civilians."[1]
UAVs are also used in a small but growing number of civil applications, such as firefighting. UAVs are often preferred for missions that are too "dull, dirty, or dangerous" for manned aircraft.
There is a wide variety of UAV shapes, sizes, configurations, and characteristics. For the purposes of this article and to distinguish UAVs from missiles, a UAV is defined as capable of controlled, sustained, level flight and powered by a jet or reciprocating engine. Cruise missiles are not classed as UAVs, because, like many other guided missiles, the vehicle itself is a weapon that is not reused, even though it is also unmanned and in some cases remotely guided.
The abbreviation UAV has been expanded in some cases to UAVS (unmanned-aircraft vehicle system). The Federal Aviation Administration has adopted the generic class unmanned aircraft system (UAS) originally introduced by the U.S. Navy to reflect the fact that these are not just aircraft, but systems, including ground stations and other elements.
elton
27-07-2009, 09:35 PM
what kind of half wit would think Aliens with advanced technology would come here to doddle in crop fields :rolleyes:
Prove he is wrong then smartass.
I have posted plenty of evidence Thirdwave not posted any hes not even posted a crop circle?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roswell_UFO_incident
UFO community schism
By the publication of The Truth About the UFO Crash at Roswell in 1994, a serious split had emerged within the UFO community as to the true sequence of the events and the locations of the alleged alien crash sites.[28](p.24) CUFOS (Center for UFO Studies) and MUFON (Mutual UFO Network), two leading UFO societies, were at odds over the various scenarios presented by Randle/Schmitt and Friedman/Berliner, so much so that several conferences were held to try to resolve the differences. One of the issues under discussion was where, precisely, Barnett was when he saw the alien craft he was said to have encountered. A 1992 conference tried to achieve a consensus among the various scenarios as portrayed in Crash at Corona and UFO Crash at Roswell, but the publication of The Truth About the UFO Crash at Roswell in 1994 "resolved" the Barnett problem by simply ignoring him and citing a new location for the alien craft recovery, including a new group of archaeologists not connected to the ones the Barnett story cited.[28](p.25)
This fundamental disagreement over the location of the alleged crash sites still exists within the UFO community today.
Contradictory conclusions, questionable research, Roswell as a myth
Critics point out that the large variety of claimed crash flights suggest events spanning many years have been incorporated into a single event[2] (p.66) and that many authors uncritically embrace anything that suggests aliens, even when accounts contradict each other. Said Karl Pflock, a one-time advocate of an alien incident at Roswell: "[T]he case for Roswell is a classic example of the triumph of quantity over quality. The advocates of the crashed-saucer tale... simply shovel everything that seems to support their view into the box marked 'Evidence' and say, 'See? Look at all this stuff. We must be right.' [emphasis in original] Never mind the contradictions. Never mind the lack of independent supporting fact. Never mind the blatant absurdities."[29] (p.223)
Kal Korff suggests there are clear incentives for some to promote the idea of aliens at Roswell, while many researchers are not doing competent work: "[The] UFO field is comprised of people who are willing to take advantage of the gullibility of others, especially the paying public. Let's not pull any punches here: The Roswell UFO myth has been very good business for UFO groups, publishers, for Hollywood, the town of Roswell, the media, and UFOlogy... [The] number of researchers who employ science and its disciplined methodology is appallingly small."[21] (p.248)
Gildenberg and others said that, when added up, there were as many as 11 reported alien recovery sites[2] and these recoveries bore only a marginal resemblance to the event as initially reported in 1947 or recounted later by the initial witnesses. Some of these new accounts could have been confused accounts of the several known recoveries of injured and dead from four military plane crashes which occurred in the vicinity from 1948-50.[31] Others could have been recoveries of test dummies, as suggested by the Air Force in their reports.
Charles Ziegler argued that the Roswell story has all the hallmarks of a traditional folk narrative, a modern-day myth in the narrative sense.[28] (pp.1, 34) He identified six distinct narratives, starting with The Roswell Incident (1980) and a process of transmission via storytellers with a core story which was created from various witness accounts and was shaped and molded by those who carry on the group's (the UFO community) tradition. Others were sought out to expand the core narrative, with those who give accounts not in line with the core beliefs repudiated or omitted by the "gatekeepers." (p.37) Others retold the narratives in new forms, and the process would repeat.
thirdwave
27-07-2009, 09:42 PM
I remember seeing this guy on TV and believed him about ETE when I was growing up
Stanton Terry Friedman CIA agent
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/17/PI5Send1.Jpg/130px-PI5Send1.Jpg
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread334798/pg1
errrr, First of all can you point me to the part that proves he is a CIA agent looking to mislead us?
and anyway he is hardly holding the UFO research on his shoulders... he is one of many in the sea... and of course some of them will be bogus, thats simply common sense.. that being said, again I am sceptical of your biased info...
check these links out... >>>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4PkNPCEnJM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6SCYhoYWh4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfplFHJr318
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuLnXLAeX5k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AolhYwk_FtI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72P5OtrHNyk
elton
27-07-2009, 09:45 PM
I have posted plenty of evidence Thirdwave not posted any hes not even posted a crop circle?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roswell_UFO_incident
I agree that Roswell is a load of bollocks for gullible suckers but that doesn't explain the crop circles.
thirdwave
27-07-2009, 10:18 PM
what kind of half wit would think Aliens with advanced technology would come here to doddle in crop fields :rolleyes:
To create an awareness centre on the planet where people feel their presence?, in a place where ancient places still exists and are valued?.. possible..
Why do you think the military have been playing scribble on the crop fields? .. oh yeah because they want us to no longer trust them and to believe they are hiding ETe life from us so it makes their NWO agenda more easy...
eeeerr thats right isnt it?
*scratches head*
thirdwave
27-07-2009, 10:22 PM
I agree that Roswell is a load of bollocks for gullible suckers but that doesn't explain the crop circles.
Im not at all gullible and I remain very open to the fact Roswell was a clear cut ETE UFO crash... with eye whiteness's official's making accounts of it... and a scrapy and pathetic attempt by the government to cover it up... changing the story three times... and today still ignoring eye witnesses..
only a closed minded individual would claim its all rubbish.
Some interesting interviews.. >>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZDJz7wl4ZI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imSHAVxsQAs&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bx2m5S-iwmU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTmjiv1EwUw&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sc_hm3d1zaE&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBKFDJjFMFE&feature=related
geewhizz
27-07-2009, 11:26 PM
Im not at all gullible and I remain very open to the fact Roswell was a clear cut ETE UFO crash... with eye whiteness's official's making accounts of it... and a scrapy and pathetic attempt by the government to cover it up... changing the story three times... and today still ignoring eye witnesses..
only a closed minded individual would claim its all rubbish.
Some interesting interviews.. >>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZDJz7wl4ZI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imSHAVxsQAs&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bx2m5S-iwmU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTmjiv1EwUw&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sc_hm3d1zaE&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBKFDJjFMFE&feature=related
Roswell was a mass mind control experiment, nothing else.
rodin
27-07-2009, 11:53 PM
And, you take this as evidence Crop circles are faked... which of course is not the case...
if they wanted us all to believe ETEs where here, then we all would have a long time ago.
you ask for facts and Docs and you have none your self.
do you think the Rothschild are aware of the distrust aimed at them today?
:confused::D I can tell you're upset. I'm not
rodin
28-07-2009, 12:01 AM
Im not at all gullible and I remain very open to the fact Roswell was a clear cut ETE UFO crash... with eye whiteness's official's making accounts of it... and a scrapy and pathetic attempt by the government to cover it up... changing the story three times... and today still ignoring eye witnesses..
only a closed minded individual would claim its all rubbish.
Some interesting interviews.. >>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZDJz7wl4ZI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imSHAVxsQAs&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bx2m5S-iwmU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTmjiv1EwUw&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sc_hm3d1zaE&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBKFDJjFMFE&feature=related
Yeah - there are screeds of Holocaust survivor interviews too
Witness evidence is poor. Forensic is strong
and UFO's are another thread
thirdwave
28-07-2009, 01:54 AM
:confused::D I can tell you're upset. I'm not
lol, not upset...
Just a tad but frustrated at the realisation of a certain ignorance... any person free of apathy would have...
Im glad your not upset though... does not mean you are right though :)
thirdwave
28-07-2009, 02:00 AM
Yeah - there are screeds of Holocaust
survivor interviews too
lol, thats because there are people that whitnessed it, maybe not in the 6 million mark but enough!
but again we see you implying these people are lieing... there is nothing I can do about that, though the witnesses are there, and the official story did change 3 times...
Witness evidence is poor. Forensic is strong
Thats funny, in a court of Law witnesses are quite valued... expectantly ones that have undergone lie detectors which many abductions have done :)
and of course un explained implants with no damaged skin tissue can be seen as forensic :)
Which begs the question, if the government are staging it and have such vast technology, then why cant they provide forensic evidence and really hit us hard? :)
and UFO's are another thread
ok, sorry if it up set you :) ...
I believe the witnesses are telling the truth.
cruise4
28-07-2009, 02:32 AM
How they are made, and who made them is an important issue... but not as important as the geometrical information contained within them is to us who don't know it.
errrr, First of all can you point me to the part that proves he is a CIA agent looking to mislead us?
and anyway he is hardly holding the UFO research on his shoulders... he is one of many in the sea... and of course some of them will be bogus, thats simply common sense.. that being said, again I am sceptical of your biased info...
check these links out... >>>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4PkNPCEnJM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6SCYhoYWh4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfplFHJr318
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuLnXLAeX5k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AolhYwk_FtI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72P5OtrHNyk
http://roswellfiles.com/storytellers/Friedman.htm
Stanton Friedman
Stanton Friedman; A commentary.
The book Crash at Corona states on the flyleaf:
"Stanton Friedman is a nuclear physicist who has worked for General Electric, Westinghouse, and other companies in the design and development of fusion rockets and nuclear power plants for space applications…. and is acknowledged as the premier investigator of the "Roswell Incident.""
More accurately, after Friedman received his MS degree in Nuclear Physics, he spent ten years working for 4 companies in his academic specialty. But since the mid 70's, he has made his living not as a physicist, but as a researcher, book writer and paid lecturer on the subject of UFO's. He is perhaps best known for his book Crash at Corona, written with Don Berliner, and numerous TV appearances.
More on Stanton
When Kent Jeffery- once a staunch Roswell Proponent- reversed his opinions on the validity of the Roswell Myth, Stan got a little irritated. Here is Stanton's reply.
Brad Sparks, a founder of Citizens Against UFO Secrecy (CAUS), wrote a commentary debunking the Roswell Story, and Stanton's role in promoting it. This sparked a return volley from Stanton, and this counter from Brad.
There are some very disturbing claims made in the book Crash at Corona. The authors place great emphasis on this excerpt from the Twining Letter:
"The phenomenon is something real and not visionary or fictitious"
This is in a book that is attempting to show that an alien spaceship crashed in New Mexico in July 1947, that the Air Force knows this, and is hiding the truth. It is at best deliberately misleading, and at worst totally dishonest.
When discussing this quote, Friedman quite conveniently omits that the Twining letter states that this is only an opinion:
"2. It is the opinion that:
a. The phenomenon is something real and not visionary or fictitious. "
Further, Friedman neglects to include that Twining went out of his way to state that this opinion was based on eyewitness reports and some small studies only, and that it should be kept in mind that:
"The lack of physical evidence in the shape of crash recovered exhibits which would undeniably prove the existence of these subjects."
So in a book attempting to demonstrate a conspiracy by the AF to cover up the procession of a crashed alien spaceship, Friedman not only quotes out of context from the Twining letter, but deliberately omits that the letter also stated that there is no "physical evidence in the shape of crash recovered exhibits". Had the Air Force indeed been in possession of a crashed interplanetary craft- as Friedman claims- Twining would surely have commented on it.
The Twining letter further states that "It is possible within the present (1947) U.S. knowledge… to construct a piloted aircraft which has the general description of the object in sub-paragraph (e) above …"
Which again conflicts with Friedman's concept that the Air Force had a crashed alien spaceship. Unless, of course, the "alien spaceship" used 1947 technology.
Crash at Corona quotes from the hoaxed Schulgen* letter to the effect that:
"For the purpose of analysis and evaluation of these so-called "flying saucers," the object sighted is being assumed to be a manned craft of unknown origin. While there remains the possibility of Russian manufacture, based on perspective thinking and actual accomplishments of the Germans, it is the considered opinion of some elements that the object may in fact represent an interplanetary craft of some kind."
(Emphasis in Crash at Corona)
* (This document was called into question when it was first found by William Moore of MJ-12 fame.)
There are two problems with this.
First if a spaceship was recovered by the Air Force at Roswell (as Friedman asserts), then the Air Force would not bother with possibilities. They would know for a fact that it was an interplanetary craft of some kind, complete with little grey men, and they wouldn't consider "the possibility of Russian manufacture".
Second, the real document says something totally different!
"For the purpose of analysis and evaluation of the so-called "flying saucer" phenomenon, the object sighted is being assumed to be a manned aircraft, of Russian origin, and based on the perspective thinking and actual accomplishments of the Germans."
Not a single surmise at all about interplanetary craft.
Chapter 5 of Crash at Corona goes into the Top Secret Smith Memorandum at great length. Unfortunately, Friedman doesn’t discuss the fact that Smith was not a reliable source of information even at this time. Friedman does state that Smith has showed signs of "mental disturbance" but claims that was only later. In reality, Smith was not working on a top secret project, didn’t have authority to stamp documents top secret, and even stamped many of his personal papers top secret. He used to sit in his orchard at home with a tape recorder, so when the Space Brothers Topside came down so he could interview them. The Smith memorandum is not considered to be a real top secret document worthy of study by very many people in UFOlogy.
Friedman mentions that the memo was checked with Sarbacher. But he doesn't mention that Sarbacher claimed that the aliens were large insects, not little grey men.
The main witnesses in Friedman's book are Barney Barnett and Gerald Anderson. Barnett is long dead and was never interviewed by Friedman. He used only supposed second hand statements- hearsay. Gerald Anderson, who can be read about in his own section on the Roswell witnesses, later was disowned by Friedman. It is not a pretty story!
(Note: Friedman has since repudiated his repudiation of Anderson! He now claims that Don Berliner, his co-author of Crash at Corona, wrote the original comments disowning Gerald Anderson, but now he- Stanton Friedman, disagrees with Don on this point. Stanton now says that he still trusts Gerald, although he says he is "disappointed" that Gerald got caught hoaxing a document.
Friedman continues to claim as genuine both the MJ-12 documents and the Crash on the Plains of San Agustin. Yet, the two conflict, as both can’t be true! The MJ-12 documents only list one alien spaceship crash and places it far from the Plains of San Agustin, where Anderson and the Barnett stories put it. This point is usually hidden or glossed over by Mr. Friedman.
Crash at Corona also claims that "Majestic-12 is quite possibly the single most important key to the entire UFO mystery." Majestic-12 will be discussed separately because of its importance.
Friedman’s comments to the audience at a MUFON conference. "The (TV) media is starting to be reasonable" in its treatment of UFOs. TV producers no longer feel obliged to have "Noisy Negativists" appear "for decoration at the end of the show."
Apparently even brief comments from skeptics might seduce the viewers away from the "TRUTH!"
Friedman has been also known for his use of The NSA Documents. He usually appears on TV and his lectures waving an FOIA document from NSA on UFOs that is totally blacked out, and asking why this is necessary unless they are hiding something about UFOs. Friedman makes these comments even though he knows full well that there is probably no UFO info in the NSA documents, just as he is fully aware of comments made by Tom Deuley.
Friedman seems reluctant to discuss the fact that what he is showing is a 21 page document from NSA to the Judge in a 1980 FOIA lawsuit by CAUS, explaining why the documents couldn’t be released at that time with less blacked out material. Judge Gesell endorsed the NSA position- A decision that was later upheld by the Supreme Court.
Tom Deuley worked at NSA for 4 years in the mid-70s. In late June 1987, He presented a paper at a MUFON conference entitled "Four years at NSA - NO UFOs." When he went to work at NSA, he told them outright that he was interested in the subject of UFOs and that he would be going to the MUFON conference. He even met with some officials of NSA, and according to him, he didn't "get any feeling that they even cared about UFOs."
In fact, because of his stated interest in UFOs, NSA selected him to review its UFO-related material! "I believe I saw or held copies of the large majority of documents withheld in that FOIA suit. Though there may have been exceptions among the documents that I did not see, none of the documents I was aware of had any information of scientific value."
"The documents ... are not worth the effort, in terms of forwarding the effort of UFO research."
"I concluded that UFOs do not have any importance at NSA."
Tom Deuley eventually became an official in two UFO organizations: MUFON and FUFOR.
Later, NSA re-released the same documents with the majority of the documents not blocked out. It turns out, in many cases, that when the Soviets would use the term "unidentifiable object", the NSA translators would use the term UFO. They also added "Probably a balloon" after most of these comments, referring to Soviet radar calibration balloons. The judge’s decision is clearly borne out to be a good decision as these documents aren’t about UFOs as it is used by the UFOlogists and the general public.
These are Communication Intelligence reports. The reports indicate the station that made the report, and could give the Soviets information on which transmitters we were listening and what we know about their actions. The main sections still blacked out are those about the locale of where the reports were made.
Here are some formerly blacked out sections in the re-released NSA documents:
"One UFO (probably a balloon) moved from/ 22 nm Se (Blacked out) toward East, Alt 49,200 ft. Revw"
"One UFO (probably a balloon) moved from (Blacked out) toward East and passed North of (Blacked out) South of (Blacked out) alt. 46,000 - 49,200 ft"
"One UFO (probably a balloon) moved from (Blacked out) toward NE and faded (Blacked out) Alt. 46,000 - 59,200 ft. [...] Two UFO (probably balloons) moved passed (Blacked out) South of (Blacked out) and South of (Blacked out) and then faded. Alt. 44,00 - 49,200 ft."
"Two UFO (probably balloons) moved 43 Nautical miles 190 degrees off (Blacked out) and faded 22 Nautical miles 178 degrees off (Blacked out)"
"One UFO (probably a balloon) moved from (Blacked out) and (Blacked out) faded 190 Nautical miles East of (Blacked out) Alt. 52,500 Ft."
"One UFO (probably a balloon) moved from 32 NM 90 deg off (Blacked out) toward East and faded 64 NM 90 deg off (Blacked out) Alt. 47,640 - 49,200"
"Three UFO (probably balloons) moved from (Blacked out) toward West slowly and faded (Blacked out) Alt. 69,000 - 79,000 Ft."
"Four UFO (probably balloons) moved from West of (Blacked out) Alt. 11,500 - 13,100 Ft. B. 0455 - 0520, One UFO (probably a balloon) moved from East of (Blacked out) toward South and faded East of (Blacked out) alt. 11,500 - 13,100 ft. C. 0734 - 1025, Three UFO (probably balloons) moved slowly from South of (Blacked out) toward West and passed (Blacked out) and (Blacked out) alt. 49,200 - 66,000 Ft."
It goes on and on in this fashion, showing that what Tom Deuley said about NSA and their interest in UFOs was absolutely correct.
One item of interest is that Friedman himself is mentioned, indirectly, in the NSA documents!
Friedman had pushed a Cuban UFO report that was supposedly picked up by radio as real. Since it was reported to have been picked up by radio, it was investigated by the NSA and found to be phony! To the best of my knowledge, Friedman has never addressed his being mentioned in the NSA documents in any of his presentations about UFOs.
In his book, TOP SECRET/MAJIC, Friedman discusses his early UFO lectures:
"As I gave more lectures, I found that I enjoyed speaking, and that people believed me no matter what I said. After all, I was a nuclear physicist for Westinghouse…"
How they are made, and who made them is an important issue... but not as important as the geometrical information contained within them is to us who don't know it.
look if they are hoaxes then what do you expect the geometrical information to be ????
look if you look at them being done by Aliens and supposedly Aliens have being abducting humans and experimenting on them and sticking implants in , you would think they would find a better way to communicate via pictures in crop fields.......if this information so important why is it not blocked off????
If the aliens could travel here they would have the tech to intercept our radio/tv broadcasts or beam stuff right into or brains ???
Why not carve it in stone???? etc.....not as if crop circles are that visible to humans walking about???
To create an awareness centre on the planet where people feel their presence?, in a place where ancient places still exists and are valued?.. possible..
Why do you think the military have been playing scribble on the crop fields? .. oh yeah because they want us to no longer trust them and to believe they are hiding ETe life from us so it makes their NWO agenda more easy...
eeeerr thats right isnt it?
*scratches head*
Yes to keep the alien "flying saucer" UFO myth alive so you don`t start researching what is going on and discover a whole load of crappy truth they would rather not admit and fudge/smudge with Alien waffle to distract people
Think about it what would happen if there was no aliens? yes all them abducted humans would realize that there government did unwitting experiments on them , they cant` sue aliens for damages ...you would be talking billions in compensations alone
cruise4
28-07-2009, 09:13 AM
Do you not find it odd Deca that someone who admits to having mind control issues is trying to save others from Mind control? Do you think we don't know about all the 'other' issues? If a thread such as this is 'distraction' why are you being distracted? Could you tell me how to 'hoax' geometry? If people wish to pursue the idea of Alien or Dimensional... why not just let them be? I don't really understand why you post on this thread.
Tune In July 30th Coast to Coast AM with George Noory
Beginning 11 PM Pacific / 2 AM Eastern
3 hours LIVE from Wiltshire, England.
- Latest infrared and image enhanced videotapes that demonstrate something highly strange is at work in some 2009 formations beyond any human hoaxing.
- What experienced investigators say about the extraordinary East Field woven circle and pristine pyramid 200 miles away in Warwickshire County.
- Mysterious links between crop formations and solar, lunar and cosmic cycles, plus physical impacts reported by people inside patterns.
http://www.earthfiles.com/Images/news/U/UKLiddingtonSunEclipseAURORA072209.jpg
July 22, 2009, bright aurora suddenly and surprisingly glowed in the Northern latitudes because NOAA explains, “a crack opened in Earth's magnetic field, allowing solar wind to pour in and fuel the storm. Northern Lights descended as far south as the Dakotas, Montana, Iowa and Wisconsin. The solar wind is still blowing, but the crack has closed, bringing an end to the aurora lights.” This was strongest aurora in a year of oddly quiet sun. So the question persists more strongly about a predictive physics showing itself in the English cereal crops.
Image © 2009 by Zoltan Kenwell.
http://www.earthfiles.com/
I believe that crop circles are man made then more complex ones done by DEW`s
I am a victim of DEW the non lethal kind but there is not much belief or knowledge or any help to prevent it
So its not me thats being distracted I am exposing that these DEW are in use and being tested .
Also I have noticed that people come here because they realize that there's something about what icke says but I think there are people pushing and subverting that to extremes to abuse peoples awakening and twist it into extreme corners to make them sound absurd or nut job
Things like crop circles can alter somebody's nature of reality if you can convince them that something other than man made them, they can become a sponge of some new age/UFO waffle
'hoax' geometry?
surly if the crop circle is a hoax then the geometry will be misleading and a red herring ???
http://blog.miragestudio7.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/kanizsa_triangle.jpg
thirdwave
28-07-2009, 11:43 AM
http://roswellfiles.com/storytellers/Friedman.htm
lol, none of the links is forwarded have anything to do with Freidman.. and he is far from the base source of Roswell, in fact I have not really bothered to much about his works, he simply is making a living out of pushing any UFO info he can get his hands on....
You are proving to look desperate to disprove stuff... reaching for any disinfo you can get your hands on.
Prove to me that the people you use for info are ok for us to trust!! .. you live with them or something?
thirdwave
28-07-2009, 01:21 PM
Yes to keep the alien "flying saucer" UFO myth alive so you don`t start researching what is going on and discover a whole load of crappy truth they would rather not admit and fudge/smudge with Alien waffle to distract people
lol, it is not a myth until it is proven so, as as much as you would LOVE to think you have, you have come no where near, and are yet to even prove your own claims are anything other than CIA attempts to smear ETE presence.
your main defence "show me the ETEs" :rolleyes:
Think about it what would happen if there was no aliens? yes all them abducted humans would realize that there government did unwitting experiments on them , they cant` sue aliens for damages ...you would be talking billions in compensations alone
Ok I will think about it..
I am seeing lots of people digging deep into the phenomena, wondering what is going on and why the government are so secretive about what ever it is.. Im thinking why you are implying this would mean the Elite are in the all clear?... as at some point they will either be proven as propaganda merchants with something to hide... of ETE cover ups... its not exactly taking the heat off them is it ! lol
your point is completely flawed. I bet you the truth of the matter is, ETEs giv you the jitters and you don't like the idea of them.
I am not trying to prove or disprove the instance of ETE but the fact that there is advanced technology based on DEW that came out of operation paper clip and is carrying on unwitting human Guinea pigs and that The US government agency's have abused peoples belief in Aliens ,UFO`s as smoke screen to cover their illegal activity's ....think I have proved that.
I not proved or disproved the existence of ETE`s or Aliens or tried I could not careless if you believe in them or not , just don`t like when illegal activity's get blamed on them and there disinformation spread to stop any real exposure of these man made illegal activity's
I personal believe in ETE,ect Aliens but whether they have had contact with earth or pop into the white house to have a cupa with the president I doubt very much.....think it came out of cold war propaganda that if there was aliens they would chose to work with the US or the US had access to Alien technology.
why do you think I am trying to disprove Alien or ETE? I am not I trying to prove the existence of DEWs and technology made by man that is being tested and abused on unwitting humans
I not here to fantasy about Aliens and what possibility of crop circles if they were made by them may mean ect.....
simple crop circles have been proved by the study of the stalks ,
I.e if they have been crushed by foot or wood the stalks show the damage
The stalks that did not show these signs had people stumped , until somebody realized that microwave`s showed the same effect and could do them ...case closed they are down by being physical bent over or microwaved .......now who microwaves them is the question ????
you can stick to UFO¬s driven by ETE , aliens ect if you want....
but my money is on the military and the billions they have spent on this type of technology (star wars, haarp, DEW, Non lethal ect......)
Research by Dr Levengood (of BLT Research Team), an American biophysicist, corroborated by the analyses of Ken Larsen, a British biologist, has shown that the way in which the stalks (wheat, rapeseed…) are flattened without being broken or damaged [p. 25…] is typical of a UHF microwave effect. Thus one can see stalks of rapeseed curving at 90 degrees, the flowers of which are still intact, although those same rapeseed stalks break easily when one attempts to bend them over by hand [p. 151]. The new position taken up by the plant becomes fixed. It continues to grow horizontally [p. 3 and 158] and breaks if one tries to return it to the upright position [p. 140].
I used to run across crop fields my self and roll about and bend them myself when I was a teenager one summer ok....If I had access to the net and heard about crop circles then I would of tried to make them myself ..........
thirdwave
28-07-2009, 08:13 PM
If I had access to the net and heard about crop circles then I would of tried to make them myself ..........
Many people make them.
lizzy
28-07-2009, 08:52 PM
IMO when peeps will not consider direct energy beams and maser ,they are giving up their reasoning abilities to tptb.
http://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/blackpoolnews/More-UFO-sightings-over-the.5499246.jp?CommentPage=1&CommentPageLength=10#comments
More UFO sightings over the Fylde
ADVERTISEMENT
Published Date:
28 July 2009
By Lisa Ettridge
UFO fever is continuing to sweep the Fylde coast as Bispham becomes the latest place to report strange objects in the sky.
The site of glowing orange blobs sent shivers down the spines of neighbours at Fitzroy Road on Saturday night.
Mother-of-three Nicola Ormerod, 28, noticed the strange – and as yet unexplained – sight as she walked her mother to the door at around 11pm.
While neighbours gathered to watch the mysterious shapes, quick-thinking Miss Ormerod captured footage on a video camera.
She said: "I've always been very sceptical about UFO sightings but lots of people saw the shape and we can't explain what it was.
"It was like an orange blob and was hovering above the houses across the road.
"It was quite low and we thought it was unusual because it made no noise. It was eerie.
"As we watched it moved slowly across the houses and stopped and then started going upwards until it was out of sight.
"We ran to get the neighbours and nobody could believe what they were
seeing."
Similar sightings were reported near Out Rawcliffe on Friday night and further sightings of the orange shapes were reported in Macclesfield, Cheshire, at 10.30pm on Saturday night.
Fleetwood has also had a busy month for unusual activity in the skies as strange orange lights, described as "like big balls of fire," were
seen racing across the sky at the Larkholme Estate.
Gavin Billington of Fairway also managed to capture footage on video.
Miss Ormerod's mum Gail, 47 described what she saw: She said: "The orange blob was definitely not a plane, a helicopter or a shooting star.
"It was totally quiet, I have seen the video of the lights at Fleetwood and it looked exactly the same, it is very strange."
Peter McDonald from Layton set up the website parastronomy.co.uk with
friend Dave Reeves.
The site asks people to post any UFO or paranormal sightings.
Mr McDonald said: "We haven't had any reports on our site about the sightings in Bispham but we are aware there has been quite a bit of
activity in the area lately.
"There could be a simple explanation for the lights,we are aware there are lots of Chinese lanterns being set off or it could even be a communications satellite, these can glow orange if they catch the sun.
"I would be very interested to see the footage however and will keep an eye out for any mention of further sightings on our website."
Have you seen strange objects in the sky? Call our newsdesk on (01253) 361865
rodin
29-07-2009, 01:07 PM
Interesting that as the MASER theory to crop circle formation is being discussed suddenly we have a remarkable experience with a live encounter with orbs 'flitting in and out of this dimension'.
The orange balls are an old phenomenon - I have witnessed same and so have friends decades ago. Anecdotal firsthand evidence suggests they are associated with electrical disturbance. They appear to be a manifestation of energy.
Possibly some kind of secret scalar weapon related to the 'Foo Fighter'
Add to a MASER scan to give desperate illusion of authenticity
Shows you how connected it all is, this Invisible Empire aka Hoaxes R Us
rodin
29-07-2009, 03:15 PM
What evidence does anyone have that aliens rather than humans are responsible for crop circles?
romas
29-07-2009, 03:21 PM
Interesting that as the MASER theory to crop circle formation is being discussed suddenly we have a remarkable experience with a live encounter with orbs 'flitting in and out of this dimension'.
The orange balls are an old phenomenon - I have witnessed same and so have friends decades ago. Anecdotal firsthand evidence suggests they are associated with electrical disturbance. They appear to be a manifestation of energy.
Possibly some kind of secret scalar weapon related to the 'Foo Fighter'
Add to a MASER scan to give desperate illusion of authenticity
Shows you how connected it all is, this Invisible Empire aka Hoaxes R Us
There were no satellites or egm weapons back in the bad ol' "foo fighter" time
elton
29-07-2009, 03:37 PM
What evidence does anyone have that aliens rather than humans are responsible for crop circles?
Humans could not have made such complex patterns by stamping around in fields in the middle of the night.
You have no credible evidence for stem-node wilting.
The fact they are all focussed in Wiltshire points to the fact that there is an alien base nearby.
jamesc
29-07-2009, 04:57 PM
What evidence does anyone have that aliens rather than humans are responsible for crop circles?
Well do you think that a recent formation,(circle is an old cliché and they are more complex than a circle, simplfication by using,"circle" is the tool mark of closed minds).:D that was possibly pointing to and predicting a sun spot activity,( that no scientists were aware of never mind predicting),was just a coincidence??:rolleyes:This burst of radiation from the Sun actually happened.Do the PTB have this gift of predicting:rolleyes: if not THEN WHO DOES ;), the origins of this formation is more likely.;)
"What evidence does anyone have that aliens rather than humans are responsible for crop circles".
When did this technology of microwave from satellites start??
What evidence is there to justify that ALL formations are man made or Black Opp TECHNOLOGY.?
WHY is it NOT possible that SOME formations are ET in origin by intelligence and technology?Prove that there is no possibility at all for some formations having a ET source??WHY is it not possible??
I do not rule out the possibility of secret microwave black opp technology but the over all complexity and design ,not to mention the symbolic nature of these formations is an indicator to me that we have to keep all possibilities open to avoid chucking the baby out with the bath water so to speak.:cool:Like this life we all are experiencing it can throw up so many surprises just when you think you know it all..;)
jackdaw
29-07-2009, 05:06 PM
They are made by extra-terrestrials. It is an attempt to communicate.
Oh pleeaaase!!!
They're computer-generated from satellites.
Some people don't want to believe it because it destroys the mystique of crop circles and dismisses the pseudo-religious babble that some revel in. Debunking also ruins the highly profitable businesses of selling a plethora of books and calendars each year.
So what do they mean? Nothing.
Satellites simply do a job. Many military and spy versions have two-way interaction. Data can be uploaded in the form of designated target areas, and these may be CGI patterns. There's nothing difficult about computer programs of instruction.
The attention crop circles receive is compelling and amusing to creators. Boffins and monitors have 'out' times and are prone to play. Also, have you considered elements of distraction as part of a bigger picture?
rodin
29-07-2009, 05:22 PM
Humans could not have made such complex patterns by stamping around in fields in the middle of the night.
You have no credible evidence for stem-node wilting.
The fact they are all focussed in Wiltshire points to the fact that there is an alien base nearby.
Another hypothesis is that a man-made satellite in Earth orbit is using some kind of beam (e.g., microwaves) to create the designs.
Heating stems of wheat with a short intense burst of microwave energy can produce wilting similar to that in a crop circle.
Flattened stems often have the bend just below a stem-node, and also may feature blackened burn holes indicative of intense heating.
Microwave heating has been shown to be capable of producing these effects. It is postulated by believers of this theory that the U.S. Pentagon's "Star Wars" program has a satellite capable of delivering such a microwave beam.
However, there is a reasonable counter-argument to this stating that there were no traces of supposed radiation detected in the crop circles.
Crops that were bent using the microwave technique showed all signs of various radiations and moisture differences. The original crops in the crop circle showed no abnormalities compared to normal crops, except for being mysteriously bent.
Furthermore, the "Star Wars" theory leads to the question "Why would a US military satellite be making patterns in crops across the world?" Such activity would be either a matter of official policy (in which case the question "why?" remains) or random acts by (bored?) military personnel, which would be tantamount to firing a major and highly secret weapon near populated areas, and would surely subject the perpetrator(s) to harsh disciplinary action.
Often touted as evidence for the mystic origin of crop circles is the coincidence that many circles in the Avebury area of southern England occur near ancient sites such as earth barrows or mounds, white horses carved in the chalk hills, and stone circles.
Other ideas on their formation have been proposed include tornadoes, freak wind patterns, ball lightning, and something called "plasma vortices".A number of witnesses claim to have observed circles being created, saying that it takes a few seconds and the corn falls flat like a fan being opened - though these accounts are always anecdotal and have never been supported by any evidence beyond the claimants' assertions.
Crop circle enthusiasts claim that there are other features of crop circles that undercut the hoax theory. They say that bends in the corn in many circles occur at the node, while the flattening of the corn by hoaxers produces a crack at any point in the stem, and some scientific studies on apical nodes bear them out.
Also they say that flattened corn often lies in groomed layers, rather than random crushings. While there have been cases in which believers declared crop circles to be "the real thing", only to be confronted soon after with the people who created the circle and documented the fraud, the bending issue remains in dispute.
http://www.crystalinks.com/croptheories.html
A number of witnesses claim to have observed circles being created, saying that it takes a few seconds and the corn falls flat like a fan being opened – though these accounts are always anecdotal and have never been supported by additional evidence. Crop circle enthusiasts, though they do not always have scientific backgrounds or credentials, claim that there are other features of crop circles that undercut the hoax theory. They say that bends in the corn in many circles occur just below a joint, while the flattening of the corn by hoaxers produces a crack at any point in the stem, and some scientific studies on apical node s bear them out. Also they say that flattened corn often lies in groomed layers, rather than random crushings. While there have been cases in which believers declared crop circles to be 'the real thing', only to be confronted soon after with the people who created the circle and documented the fraud, the bending issue remains in dispute. For this reason, skeptics prefer the explanation that there are simply different hoaxers employing different techniques.
http://infao5501.ag5.mpi-sb.mpg.de:8080/topx/archive?link=Wikipedia-Lip6-2/56206.xml&style
jamesc
29-07-2009, 05:23 PM
Oh pleeaaase!!!
Some formations could be ET attempted communications , why not?Abductions and the complexity of them could be seen in a much more less nicety nice way of communicating .Not saying ALL formations are an attempt at communication from ETs but i would not rule it out, does anyone really know for sure if not what kind of indicator is that pointing to, ;) an open mind is my answer. :)As the complexity of these formations has steadily increased in their design could this not be a sign:D of checking out the progress of intelligent understanding of some of these possible communication formations.Just like children from a young age at school are checked on their learning progresses by tests on what they have been shown,(in a form of communication), would it be any different by a intelligent ET civilisation not to use these processes as the formations gain in complexity , designs and symbolic meaning?? :cool:
rodin
29-07-2009, 05:30 PM
Microwave heating has been shown to be capable of producing these effects. It is postulated by believers of this theory that the U.S. Pentagon's "Star Wars" program has a satellite capable of delivering such a microwave beam.
However, there is a reasonable counter-argument to this stating that there were no traces of supposed radiation detected in the crop circles.
Crops that were bent using the microwave technique showed all signs of various radiations and moisture differences. The original crops in the crop circle showed no abnormalities compared to normal crops, except for being mysteriously bent.
MASER radiation is coherent, probably relatively low-powered, and scanning. Also the frequency can be different from that of an MO - eg tuned to a bond vibration of water. These vibrations occur in the infrared region. EM radiation goes from light > IR > MW. The transition is not sudden from IR > MW.
In fact an Infrared LASER is also a logical military weapon.
IRASER
Got a certain ring about it...
jamesc
29-07-2009, 05:32 PM
http://www.crystalinks.com/croptheories.html
http://infao5501.ag5.mpi-sb.mpg.de:8080/topx/archive?link=Wikipedia-Lip6-2/56206.xml&style
Is there any evidence from people claiming to have deluded the believers on the ones that they claim are genuine because of the crop lay??Is there any footage of these hoaxers in the middle of the night forming highly complex and hundreds of feet in diameter formations?? If not WHY??Anyone can claim to have done even the really big and complex ones but like the debunkers say ."show me the video evidence", of these hoaxers in the middle of the night doing the really big and complex formations??:rolleyes:
rodin
29-07-2009, 05:35 PM
Some formations could be ET attempted communications , why not?Abductions and the complexity of them could be seen in a much more less nicety nice way of communicating .Not saying ALL formations are an attempt at communication from ETs but i would not rule it out, does anyone really know for sure if not what kind of indicator is that pointing to, ;) an open mind is my answer. :)As the complexity of these formations has steadily increased in their design could this not be a sign:D of checking out the progress of intelligent understanding of some of these possible communication formations.Just like children from a young age at school are checked on their learning progresses by tests on what they have been shown,(in a form of communication), would it be any different by a intelligent ET civilisation not to use these processes as the formations gain in complexity , designs and symbolic meaning?? :cool:
Crop patterns have evolved over the years. An advanced civilisation would not be 'learning' the art as they go along.
An open mind does not preclude rational analysis
jamesc
29-07-2009, 05:43 PM
MASER radiation is coherent, probably relatively low-powered, and scanning. Also the frequency can be different from that of an MO - eg tuned to a bond vibration of water. These vibrations occur in the infrared region. EM radiation goes from light > IR > MW. The transition is not sudden from IR > MW.
In fact an Infrared LASER is also a logical military weapon.
IRASER
Got a certain ring about it...
Well so is the POSSIBILITY OF some formations having an ET source, surely out of all probability there is the possibility of this.I agree that some could be MASER radiation in source but this is all too complex to rule out ALL possibilities.:cool:
rodin
29-07-2009, 06:00 PM
Well so is the POSSIBILITY OF some formations having an ET source, surely out of all probability there is the possibility of this.I agree that some could be MASER radiation in source but this is all too complex to rule out ALL possibilities.:cool:
There is the POSSIBILITY that ET's caused my computer to start behaving badly.
There is the POSSIBILITY that ET's made sure UK US EU etc was run by yew know hews
There is the POSSIBILITY that ET's invented Usuary and the bidet is a spin-off from alien decontamination technology
etc
Belief after all is the Enemy of Truth
jamesc
29-07-2009, 06:05 PM
Crop patterns have evolved over the years. An advanced civilisation would not be 'learning' the art as they go along.
An open mind does not preclude rational analysis
I did mean them learning our responses and level of intelligence , checking out what levels of OUR understanding of these formations.How do you check or find out peoples abilities of learning and understanding??You increase the information to see WHAT level of were they are in the learning process.Hence the EVOLVING NATURE AND COMPLEXITY OF SOME OF THESE FORMATIONS.How do you find out or know what level a child has attained in education, by increasing the information in the form of tests.A closed mind is a blinkered one and sees only the one side of its chosen subject it interferes with the learning process and sees things only in the black and white rational analysis.Ever get the gut feeling about any thing, tell me it comes from the rational analysis mind set on .;).
'The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.':)
Albert Einstein.;)
The above is so true in anyone who try s to or attacks the intuitive mind part of finding things out and coming to conclusions from:cool:.
rodin
29-07-2009, 06:34 PM
I did mean them learning our responses and level of intelligence , checking out what levels of OUR understanding of these formations.How do you check or find out peoples abilities of learning and understanding??You increase the information to see WHAT level of were they are in the learning process.Hence the EVOLVING NATURE AND COMPLEXITY OF SOME OF THESE FORMATIONS.How do you find out or know what level a child has attained in education, by increasing the information in the form of tests.A closed mind is a blinkered one and sees only the one side of its chosen subject it interferes with the learning process and sees things only in the black and white rational analysis.Ever get the gut feeling about any thing, tell me it comes from the rational analysis mind set on .;).
'The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.':)
Albert Einstein.;)
The above is so true in anyone who try s to or attacks the intuitive mind part of finding things out and coming to conclusions from:cool:.
Einstein was a total fraud and rather nasty person. You have never looked into his science I suspect.
Start from facts you can verify - work from there.
Also convention is to place a space between sentences. Makes for easier reading ;)
kingmob
29-07-2009, 07:28 PM
There is no clear answer for why humans would be making crop circles.
The only explanation I come up with is that whenever there are genuine unexplained crop circles(with a theme, message), somebody higher up produces a few man made crop circles by whatever technology you chose to believe in to confuse and mislead the general public, and take attention away from those few.
Again, even if the crop circles are made by satellites or whatever else, does not mean that they are made by your own, here on planet Earth.
jamesc
29-07-2009, 07:41 PM
Einstein was a total fraud and rather nasty person. You have never looked into his science I suspect.
Start from facts you can verify - work from there.
Also convention is to place a space between sentences. Makes for easier reading ;)
Never mind Einstein that's your views on him and now are you calling his discovers at the time he made them wrong.:rolleyes:I see you have no comment on the ETs experimenting with our understanding of the increased complexity of some of these formations.You call him a fraud and seem to know much more than him ,do you, what are your bases of calling him a fraud and a nasty person :confused:Forgive me if i think differently but some facts are 2 way and could lead to more than one possibility or is that just not a rational way to approach certain facts that contain a 2 way possibility.:rolleyes:
jamesc
29-07-2009, 07:45 PM
There is no clear answer for why humans would be making crop circles.
The only explanation I come up with is that whenever there are genuine unexplained crop circles(with a theme, message), somebody higher up produces a few man made crop circles by whatever technology you chose to believe in to confuse and mislead the general public, and take attention away from those few.
Again, even if the crop circles are made by satellites or whatever else, does not mean that they are made by your own, here on planet Earth.
True the logics and probability tend to suggest that there is no reason as to why there showed be no possibility of there being some formations of ET origins.They could mock our technology but with bits of there advanced technology in the mix as well.:cool:
jamesc
29-07-2009, 08:04 PM
There is the POSSIBILITY that ET's caused my computer to start behaving badly.
There is the POSSIBILITY that ET's made sure UK US EU etc was run by yew know hews
There is the POSSIBILITY that ET's invented Usuary and the bidet is a spin-off from alien decontamination technology
etc
Belief after all is the Enemy of Truth
Not at all, my main point is, WHY RESTRICT YOUR VIEWS ON THE VERY MEANING OF POSSIBILITIES. IF THERE IS A POSSIBILITY THEN ITS POSSIBLE UNTIL PROVED OTHER WISE.:rolleyes::cool:
Wow, mcmenek, amazing pictures!
What were your feelings when you saw the orb?
Do you know which crop circle it may have created?
er there is no proof that this orb has anything to do with crop circles lots of people seen a orange orb on that night, was mcmenek already at an existing crop circle anyway?
I was waiting for somebody to say the orb was something to do with the crop circle when there is no proof as far as I know
jamesc
29-07-2009, 09:21 PM
er there is no proof that this orb has anything to do with crop circles lots of people seen a orange orb on that night, was mcmenek already at an existing crop circle anyway?
I was waiting for somebody to say the orb was something to do with the crop circle when there is no proof as far as I know
Well the fact that they are around them and not just in the area passing by:D is maybe a wee small fact that we can choose to ignore.How do we know that these orbs did not in fact have something to do with them. Just because they were seen turning up at already existing formations does not necessarily prove that they did not or have any influence on the making or helping into physical existence of these formations BEFORE any of these formations were discovered. :rolleyes::cool:
bill23
29-07-2009, 10:40 PM
man made until proven otherwise.
thirdwave
29-07-2009, 10:58 PM
er there is no proof that this orb has anything to do with crop circles lots of people seen a orange orb on that night, was mcmenek already at an existing crop circle anyway?
I was waiting for somebody to say the orb was something to do with the crop circle when there is no proof as far as I know
I believe she said, "May have created" , it is a term used allot be people who are not brainwashed have the ability to allow their minds to be open to other possibilities... ;)
rodin
29-07-2009, 11:00 PM
There is no clear answer for why humans would be making crop circles.
The only explanation I come up with is that whenever there are genuine unexplained crop circles(with a theme, message), somebody higher up produces a few man made crop circles by whatever technology you chose to believe in to confuse and mislead the general public, and take attention away from those few.
Again, even if the crop circles are made by satellites or whatever else, does not mean that they are made by your own, here on planet Earth.
The theme/message is part of the alien invasion agenda hoax - laying the ground (pun intended) as it were, just as Abu Nidal laid the ground for Ground Zero.
I am interested in these orange globes/orbs, but that's another matter
rodin
29-07-2009, 11:01 PM
Not at all, my main point is, WHY RESTRICT YOUR VIEWS ON THE VERY MEANING OF POSSIBILITIES. IF THERE IS A POSSIBILITY THEN ITS POSSIBLE UNTIL PROVED OTHER WISE.:rolleyes::cool:
Never heard of Occam's Razor?
rodin
29-07-2009, 11:04 PM
There were no satellites or egm weapons back in the bad ol' "foo fighter" time
The orbs/foo fighters have nowt to do with satellites - as I said in my post
thirdwave
30-07-2009, 12:28 AM
The orbs/foo fighters have nowt to do with satellites - as I said in my post
So what on earth are you talking about Satellites for then?
solarwindspirit
30-07-2009, 01:14 AM
Well,
trying to open my mind to the tarot symbolic system. . .
something I have always well. . .refused
but when reflecting back to the religious mind who
refuses my way of thinking . . .it makes sense to open the mind
and try something new . . .using just reflection.
However there is nothing better than to retreat and just absorb
and reflect upon nature. . .when clearing the consciousness as you
immerse yourself in sovereignty all around you and is the simpliest
most natural method in life.
hmm I have a crop circle book that is missing that I gave
my father years ago. . .along with my medical books
like 400 dollars for each book. . .can't understand it
Anyone else experience missing items and belongings?
Michael Tsarion (http://www.taroscopes.com/taroscopestour/startpage.html) information on the reflective qualities of the tarot
Although I have a certain deep suspicion of him with visiting indigo children. It sounds like when the government got into the Montouk programs and even school children were indoctrinated into it. They used schools to test children. I remember some of the questions sitting in first grade. 'a house divided cannot stand' She repeated it several times. . .because I was disagreeable . .. finally I agreed and just said ok. . .how ridiculous. . what I disagreed with was the suggestions. I remember a school child making fun of me in the hall. . .you think if you just take this small piece out the wall the building will collapse.. .on que follow me the little extrovert would say. . .all must agree with me. . .on que. . .all laugh. I was extremely bright but introverted with deep introspection that others could not understand. ..with an art gallery when I was second grade. . .of about thirtyfive pieces of artwork hanging on the walls for visitors. . .then to be deliberately put back by their tracking system of youngsters. . .doesn't add up. I went from the top gifted group then forced down to the 'slow' group who couldn't read but two or three words in Jack and Jill. . .how boring. I was a free thinker even then and did not easily agree with mere suggestions on how to think. Our school system doesn't make sense really. I'm a strong advocate of teaching youngsters at home as my cousins did. It's good to get in touch with the inner child. . .my memories are extremely vivid even at the age of one. . even down to the little visions. . .a way of learning. . .with a lot of beautiful geometry and fluid expression. They didn't like me because I could not be brainwashed, I guess.
I think Tsarion is probably a CIA operative. What do you think?
I definitely disagree with the information on Atlantis and Lumeria
or the origins of mankind. . believing it to be a 'genetic experiment'.
Just more brainwashing.
I think the concept of black / white magic is stupid You are only one kind of magician one or the other. . the white brotherhood or the black brotherhood. . .I find it a tifle matter and a way to 'block' or put up that
wall to the truth of the 'matter', hense by giving the mind something of bicameral attributes doesn't do justice to even the comprehension of its truth.
Anyway his right when he says that the stars and plotting of time is not above your head in the stars. . . .rather it's in your mind. I slipped through that portal many years ago. . .
called the 13th sign of the zodiac. . .which we will all see in 2012. It is door way. . .or star gate as well as it will be yours. It is reflected in the great pryamid.
There's no conflict within me. . .with my astrological sign of the moon and the sun. . .or warring opposites.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Never ascribe to malice that which can adequately be explained by incompetence.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lincoln delivered this famous speech, noted for the phrase "a house divided (http://www.nationalcenter.org/HouseDivided.html)against itself cannot stand," when accepting the Republican nomination for U.S 1858
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
five energetic enemies is better than one fool as a friend
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
watch the 2012 egypt (http://www.history.com/video.do?name=armageddon)or the great serpent holder
http://www.skpranch.com/sky_maps/starmap-large.gif
me think you have been duped
http://www.parastronomy.co.uk/images/stories/orange_ufo_150x150.jpg
http://wingingitroundtheworld.com/funny/wingingitrtw-starts-ufo-scare-were-not-joking/
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3457/3757780992_446bc9e484_b.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2510/3757778886_cb684102c9_b.jpg
UFO my arse
http://www.parastronomy.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=36
100% sure it was us. At the same time and location we set off a chinese lantern. Pics Here:
http://wingingitroundtheworld.com/funny/wingingitrtw-starts-
ufo-scare-were-not-joking/
gee you friend must of felt the heat of the candle :D
thirdwave
30-07-2009, 02:07 AM
me think you have been duped
http://www.parastronomy.co.uk/images/stories/orange_ufo_150x150.jpg
http://wingingitroundtheworld.com/funny/wingingitrtw-starts-ufo-scare-were-not-joking/
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3457/3757780992_446bc9e484_b.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2510/3757778886_cb684102c9_b.jpg
UFO my arse
http://www.parastronomy.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=36
gee you friend must of felt the heat of the candle :D
LOL.
So they are now not lights created from radiation paint brushes from NASA ?
make your mind up! :)
LOL.
So they are now not lights created from radiation paint brushes from NASA ?
make your mind up! :)
I never said they were made by NASA or created by radiation I posted an article that confirmed what mcmenek1 had seen there were orange blobs seen on friday night over the north west
And people have admited letting Chinese latterns off at the same time
http://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/blackpoolnews/More-UFO-sightings-over-the.5499246.jp?CommentPage=2&CommentPageLength=10#comments
She said: "I've always been very sceptical about UFO sightings but lots of people saw the shape and we can't explain what it was.
"It was like an orange blob and was hovering above the houses across the road.
"It was quite low and we thought it was unusual because it made no noise. It was eerie.
"As we watched it moved slowly across the houses and stopped and then started going upwards until it was out of sight.
"We ran to get the neighbours and nobody could believe what they were
seeing."
Similar sightings were reported near Out Rawcliffe on Friday night and further sightings of the orange shapes were reported in Macclesfield, Cheshire, at 10.30pm on Saturday night.
I would of found out what the object was before coming to a conclusion if it may of caused an crop circle but thats being logical not brainwashed dude
thirdwave
30-07-2009, 02:30 AM
I never said they were made by NASA or created by radiation I posted an article that confirmed what mcmenek1 had seen there were orange blobs seen on friday night over the north west
And people have admited letting Chinese latterns off at the same time
http://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/blackpoolnews/More-UFO-sightings-over-the.5499246.jp?CommentPage=2&CommentPageLength=10#comments
I would of found out what the object was before coming to a conclusion if it may of caused an crop circle but thats being logical not brainwashed dude
I dont want to drag the thread off topic again... so I will just say I simply think you are talking tripe :)
if you interested in all these energy's why not get a proper detector and stop fucking about
http://www.maui.net/~emf/TriFieldNat.jpg
http://www.maui.net/~emf/TriFieldNat.html
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there is also other Trifield EMF detectors but do a bit of research to find out which one will work for you before parting your cash
thirdwave
30-07-2009, 02:35 AM
if you interested in all these energy's why not get a proper detector and stop fucking about
http://www.maui.net/~emf/TriFieldNat.jpg
http://www.maui.net/~emf/TriFieldNat.html
there is also other Trifield EMF detectors but do a bit of research to find out which one will work for you before parting your cash
been done by loads of researchers... catch up! :)
I dont want to drag the thread off topic again... so I will just say I simply think you are talking tripe :)
I am not off topic you just don`t have an argument.
Does what mcmenek1 saw look like one of these Chinese lanterns or not?
Were there ones let off and spotted that night or not???
biblegirl
30-07-2009, 02:51 AM
me think you have been duped
gee you friend must of felt the heat of the candle :D
sorry, but the difference between the chinese lantern pics and mcmeneks pics are night and day, and he was there friday night, not saturday night
sorry, but the difference between the chinese lantern pics and mcmeneks pics are night and day, and he was there friday night, not saturday night
er this was took by a wittiness that thought it was a UFO
http://www.parastronomy.co.uk/images/stories/orange_ufo_150x150.jpg
remember this was done on I think a cam record /or maybe a mobile phone video so it may look streched because of that
I think it looks like what he saw , maybe from a different angle thou?
http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/2716/img2206g.jpg
this was done with an SLR still camera .....but notice how they match color wise also this looks more like the original shape
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3457/3757780992_446bc9e484_b.jpg
so you think there was orange Chinese lanterns floating about and orange UFO`s around the same night and time? and people were reported seeing the Chinese lanterns and claiming them as UFO`s ???
thirdwave
30-07-2009, 03:15 AM
I am not off topic you just don`t have an argument.
that's cool, you don't have to think I have an argument... :)
it is however a Crop Circle Gallery thread... not a thread to debate their authenticity... as has been pointed out by the mods several times. :)
Does what mcmenek1 saw look like one of these Chinese lanterns or not?
Were there ones let off and spotted that night or not???
lol
no!... it looks nothing like a lanton... and neither does the pics i sent where there is a faded orb...
you are a debunker... but a very poor one...
you are way to closed minded for me to ever bother with.... way to closed minded... lol
that's cool, you don't have to think I have an argument... :)
it is however a Crop Circle Gallery thread... not a thread to debate their authenticity... as has been pointed out by the mods several times. :)
lol
no!... it looks nothing like a lanton... and neither does the pics i sent where there is a faded orb...
you are a debunker... but a very poor one...
you are way to closed minded for me to ever bother with.... way to closed minded... lol
no I like to get to the bottom of things , find out the truth not rely on blind believe ok
you can`t handle or believe my truth thirdwave , sorry its you closed minded not me.
enjoy your life fulled with fantasy ...........some of us have to deal with the real shit , you can`t and wounder into escapism
metacomet
30-07-2009, 03:36 AM
enjoy your life fulled with fantasy ...........some of us have to deal with the real shit , you can`t and wounder into escapism
Aren't you the one offering scapegoat cliche explanations like chinese lanterns to escape the 'real shit' that could be going on with UFO's and crop circles?
Hmmm... ironic.
thirdwave
30-07-2009, 03:49 AM
no I like to get to the bottom of things , find out the truth not rely on blind believe ok
lol, rubbish... you do not want people to contemplate UFOs, Orbs, Crop cricles, or anything having anthing to do with other forms of life or inteligence.
simple as that, there for your perspective is extremely narrow minded and painful..
you can`t handle or believe my truth thirdwave , sorry its you closed minded not me.
I dont know the truth, and that fact you are now implying that you do, is evidence in its self that you are a simply narrow minded person... as you DONT KNOW THE TRUTH.
I am simply interested in what could be... as are others here, discussing their strange experiences and looking for more... you have made your point but seem to have a huge problem with people not rubber stamping your views on there own views...
enjoy your life fulled with fantasy ...........some of us have to deal with the real shit , you can`t and wounder into escapism
lol, of course its all fantasy... all star wars and star trek :)
You just stay in your little reality tunnel where its much more "realistic" and easier to keep both feet on the ground ....
while us freaks, stoner's and fools..... get on with the thinking.
Aren't you the one offering scapegoat cliche explanations like chinese lanterns to escape the 'real shit' that could be going on with UFO's and crop circles?
Hmmm... ironic.
theirs zero proof that crop circles have anything to do with UFO`s
people have studied the stems of the crops effected and discovered they have been crushed(trampled on) or microwaved true or false ?
its very possible that what mcmenek1 saw was a Chinese lanterns many other people on the night saw them and thought they were UFO`s before?
true or false ?
have any Ufologist ever been fooled by Chinese lanterns before? true or false
I did not know about the releasing of Chinese lanterns until early on when I checked up on the news article I posted
I thought it looked like a planet or something from what he posted I was mythed myself ok what I supposed to do ignore it and not post the Chinese lanterns?
thirdwave
30-07-2009, 03:55 AM
theirs zero proof that crop circles have anything to do with UFO`s
people have studied the stems of the crops effected and discovered they have been crushed(trampled on) or microwaved true or false ?
Dont kn ow why Im wasting my time... but there is 0 proof that they are nothing to do with UFOs... and where the things that are seen to rase such a suspicious remain open for possibility.
But how do you think a UFO could make one?
lol, rubbish... you do not want people to contemplate UFOs, Orbs, Crop cricles, or anything having anthing to do with other forms of life or inteligence.
No just be scientific, logical and see if there is a man made explanation before wondering off and jumping on every seemingly unexplained event and fantasying about ETE`s
simple as that, there for your perspective is extremely narrow minded and painful..
no you just don`t look at the scientific evidence and change your belief based on facts....you belief aliens are here you are looking for something to prove you right not taking each event and looking at it logically .
I dont know the truth, and that fact you are now implying that you do, is evidence in its self that you are a simply narrow minded person... as you DONT KNOW THE TRUTH.
I said My truth dude :D
I am simply interested in what could be... as are others here, discussing their strange experiences and looking for more... you have made your point but seem to have a huge problem with people not rubber stamping your views on there own views...
Hey I only going with the scientific evidence and my own experience with advance technology not yet admitted dude.
lol, of course its all fantasy... all star wars and star trek :)
You just stay in your little reality tunnel where its much more "realistic" and easier to keep both feet on the ground ....
Yep both my feet are on the ground , nope my world very surreal
while us freaks, stoner's and fools..... get on with the thinking.
I need to do more and focus on my own stuff and stop getting suck into this thread and made out to be the bad guy :cool:
Dont kn ow why Im wasting my time... but there is 0 proof that they are nothing to do with UFOs... and where the things that are seen to rase such a suspicious remain open for possibility.
But how do you think a UFO could make one?
I don`t , I know they have Advanced microwave technology ether satellite based , Haarp or other platform
this Alien UFO stuff is a cover the US have studied it, the Russians and UK etc they have found very little a few anomalies , they certainly not worried or spending any money on anti UFO technology
They are more worried about Mind technology and direct energy technology etc....
They have studied all these phenomenon and have used what they can i,e remote view and psychic ability but have managed to synthetically do it .
what are they spending there money on?
look at project blue beam people laugh at it think it will not work ....this thread proves it would have an effect ............
thirdwave I have to keep my self straight it would be to easy for me to wounder of to ga ga land with what they have done to me ....check out some of the other MC victims and they weird beliefs they have witch they belief 100% ok, saying that the truth is bizarre and more interesting (but disturbing) than you would believe , I don`t try to de bunk what people say or what they experience but try to match it in to what sciences is starting to understand and backs up , but maybe not in a way the experiencer perceives or believes
I have had Phenomenon experiences when I was a kid well before this started ok....
There world is run on fear politics , if there was a genuine threat from UFO`s ( I don`t see them as a threat but or government/military would ) they would use it to screw millions on some ET defense system etc..... maybe they will use a threat of aliens when when get sick of this terrorism and swine flu ....hmm martian flu .........is that next........Strategic alien Defense Initiative could be worth billions to the military complex .....they will have to find a new enemy soon
metacomet
30-07-2009, 05:53 AM
theirs zero proof that crop circles have anything to do with UFO`s
Zero proof? You sure about that?
people have studied the stems of the crops effected and discovered they have been crushed(trampled on) or microwaved true or false ?
True? Some crops do exhibit unexplainable changes like that after forming.
its very possible that what mcmenek1 saw was a Chinese lanterns many other people on the night saw them and thought they were UFO`s before?
true or false ?
False. It's not 'very' possible. It's a long shot, vague possibility. It's more likely that he saw an unexplained light and was lucky enough to photograph it.
have any Ufologist ever been fooled by Chinese lanterns before? true or false
False?
UFOlogists study actual UFO cases, which means even a mistaken identity case like a chinese lantern isn't really the meat and potatoes of what they do.
I did not know about the releasing of Chinese lanterns until early on when I checked up on the news article I posted
Most people have heard of a few mistaken identity cases and from there, do exactly what you do, use 'chinese lantern' as a scapegoat possible explanation. Just like people do with Bigfeet (it must've been a bear) or ghosts (overactive imaginations).