Crop Circle Origins

[white horse]

But wait... there appears to be an error...



http://www.cropcircleresearch.com/articles/alienface.html

I've also tried to piece together the damaged word in the middle of the message. This would appear to be either a mistake in the encoding in the formation or some additional code which I'm not familiar with. By clicking on the small thumbnail (shown right) you can view an enlarged view of that section of the disc. According to my own decoding the word says EELIJ?E where the ? is a letter that I can't decode, due to it having 11 (or possibly 12) bits. I shall assume it's 11 bits because if it was 12, the leading bit is a 0 so can be safely ignored in terms of decoding the numeric value. The bit pattern as far as I can make out is 10101010110 (don't forget to read in an anti-clockwise fashion because it's still spiralling out from the centre). This translates to 1366 in decimal. Being ruthless we can convert this into ASCII by performing a modulo 256 arithmetic, which will yield 86 or V. This would spell out EELIJVE - which still doesn't make sense to me.

[white horse]

Let's move on...

I remember whenever it was in FT... 2002/3?? as I read about this the bad sector intrigued me... what if it was intentional?

For instance I'd heard at the time the Sony were using intentional bad sectors on their PLaystation discs.




http://sadbuttru.tripod.com/1.htm

1995: The Sony Playstation is released worldwide. Sony, in an effort to avoid the pirating (copying) of their software, has added onto their disc's aCOUNTRY CODE that a Playstation can read (and that CD burners cannot). The country code specifies which continent the disc is from; only Playstations with matching country codes will read the disc.
The country code coded onto the disc is written in the form of bad sectors. When you copy a Playstation game with a CD Burner, the drive (not the software) recognizes that the country code has been coded as bad sectors and automatically 'corrects' these bad sectors on the new copy.

[presence]

If an alien intelligence, through the medium of crop circles, is attempting to communicate with us, or mess with our minds or with our food with a view to eventually taking over the planet perhaps, then deliberately obscuring the evidence of that with a plethora of man-made crop circles, is appallingly irresponsible behaviour.
Not only do the graffiti vandals gamble their own future freedom by presuming that there is no such alien intelligence - for they will surely face prosecution if not a lynch mob should their presumption ever prove false - they also gamble the future of the human race.
Human arrogance knows no bounds apparently.
However, in light of the possibility that an alien intelligence is indeed involved in crop circles, then surely it behoves us to do all the detective work necessary to catch and prosecute the graffiti vandals for trespass and malicious damage. This will curb their enthusiasm and clear the decks. Yet only one prosecution has ever taken place!
Why don’t we try a little harder to get the vandals out of the picture so that we can see what else is going on?
Is it that no one takes the alien hypothesis seriously enough to do the necessary detective work?
Or is it that the authorities know perfectly well what’s going on and prefer to keep it a secret under cover of the aforementioned graffiti vandalism?

[soothseeker]

Yer can just see a police officer trying to pull over a UFO:

Put the Masser down, or I will be forced to use my PS spray!

[jamesc]

If an alien intelligence, through the medium of crop circles, is attempting to communicate with us, or mess with our minds or with our food with a view to eventually taking over the planet perhaps, then deliberately obscuring the evidence of that with a plethora of man-made crop circles, is appallingly irresponsible behaviour.
Not only do the graffiti vandals gamble their own future freedom by presuming that there is no such alien intelligence - for they will surely face prosecution if not a lynch mob should their presumption ever prove false - they also gamble the future of the human race.
Human arrogance knows no bounds apparently.
However, in light of the possibility that an alien intelligence is indeed involved in crop circles, then surely it behoves us to do all the detective work necessary to catch and prosecute the graffiti vandals for trespass and malicious damage. This will curb their enthusiasm and clear the decks. Yet only one prosecution has ever taken place!
Why don’t we try a little harder to get the vandals out of the picture so that we can see what else is going on?
Is it that no one takes the alien hypothesis seriously enough to do the necessary detective work?
Or is it that the authorities know perfectly well what’s going on and prefer to keep it a secret under cover of the aforementioned graffiti vandalism?

Would be interesting if the law was enforced more and people caught faced warnings of sever penalty's if caught doing it again .Imagine hoaxers having to think twice about trying to claim responibility for complicated formations.As you have pointed out the PAB could very well know the real origins of some of these formations and it would not surprise me if they were involved in some of the deliberate hoaxed formations to muddy the waters and flog of the explanations that ALL formations have a human origin.:rolleyes::cool:

[jamesc]

Let's move on...

I remember whenever it was in FT... 2002/3?? as I read about this the bad sector intrigued me... what if it was intentional?

For instance I'd heard at the time the Sony were using intentional bad sectors on their PLaystation discs.

Interesting, the question is what is the motive behind this possible deliberate error.Maybe even the unknown origin of this coded formation is putting out feelers to test reactions,???:confused::cool:

[jamesc]

This thread really is a parody of itself

SPECULATION ??;):rolleyes::cool:

[elton]

Interesting, the question is what is the motive behind this possible deliberate error.Maybe even the unknown origin of this coded formation is putting out feelers to test reactions,???:confused::cool:

This is the only circle that seems to have a message in it in English script. The fact that we have never even attempted to reply to it must puzzle the aliens. They probably think we don't care.

[phildee3]

This is the only circle that seems to have a message in it in English script. The fact that we have never even attempted to reply to it must puzzle the aliens.



How can you possibly know this "fact"?? :confused:

I bet lots of people have replied to it.

[hagbard_celine]

Don`t read this it`s all lies:


CONFESSIONS OF A CROP CIRCLE MAKER
Caryn Anscomb interviews John Lundberg

John Lundberg is an artist and filmmaker. He graduated from the National Film & Television School in 2004, where he created four documentaries.
As an organization to date Lundber and his associates have created circles across the USA, New Zealand, Japan, Mexico and across continental Europe. We have several projects in the pipeline that will take us to many more far-flung corners of the world




This guy once emailed me because I'd called him a disinformer on the DarkConspiracy forum. I apologized for that.:o But I asked him if he was saying that all crop circles, without exception, were made by him and his Plankers. He never answered me.:confused:

[hagbard_celine]

Yes, no footprints or other signs of human activity apparently - I didn't inspect it myself though.

On the possibility of an electromagnetic cause of such crop circles, often suggested, I've just now come across this article, the conclusion of which is: ' the claims about the involvement of some kind of electromagnetic radiation in the creation of crop circles are not supported by the available evidence.'

http://www.scientificexploration.org/journal/jse_19_2_grassi.pdf

And so,I continue to wonder not only why 'some other energy' as I've put it above, makes crop circles, but also how.

As I've said before, if it's ETs millions of years ahead of us, then we'll never know! A monkey can understand a man only as a monkey can...

What makes me question the 100% Man-Made-with-Secret-Technology Hypothesis is the links to ley lines. Also crop circles often appear over groundwater, underground rivers, aquifers etc. I'm also interested in the transcendental experiences people have in conjunction with these formations.

I question the 100% Planker Hypothesis too, obviously.:D;)

[who elsie]

What makes me question the 100% Man-Made-with-Secret-Technology Hypothesis is the links to ley lines. Also crop circles often appear over groundwater, underground rivers, aquifers etc. I'm also interested in the transcendental experiences people have in conjunction with these formations.

I question the 100% Planker Hypothesis too, obviously.:D;)

Yes, I agree with your points there HC.

This year, I think, has been a very significant one regarding the crop circle mystery and, as this season draws to a close, I feel several conclusions can now be drawn about their origins:

1. Some are definitely made by plankers - but usually the crap, insignificant and small scale ones, with lots of damage to the crop.

2. Some most certainly COULD be made by secret military technology, eg masers, but..

3. There is still a very large unknown quantity to the whole mystery that can't be adequately explained by either of the above, such as the points that Hagbard made about the recurring themes to do with the locations of crop circles; the intricate internal details that have been seen on a number of formations this year; the energies that are detected/felt by people visiting them; the numerous sightings of orbs in and around them; and the often highly significant designs, often featuring sacred geometry, encoded messages or predictions for future solar/astrological events.

There is also still a very big WHY hanging over the secret technology theory. It really doesn't make any sense that they would do so many, when 99% of the population couldn't give a shit about the whole mystery.

It's been a great year! :)

[phildee3]

What makes me question the 100% Man-Made-with-Secret-Technology Hypothesis is the links to ley lines.



The majority of ley-line nodes are man-made structures - meagliths, churches, etc.

If the circlemakers can create such accurate geometric forms why wouldn't they be capable of accurate, geometric placement in the landscape?

[jamesc]

The majority of ley-line nodes are man-made structures - meagliths, churches, etc.

If the circlemakers can create such accurate geometric forms why wouldn't they be capable of accurate, geometric placement in the landscape?

Yes the artefacts BUILT ON THEM but the actuall ley- lines are energy channels not to be confused that man made these energy lines.:cool:

[jamesc]

Yes, I agree with your points there HC.

This year, I think, has been a very significant one regarding the crop circle mystery and, as this season draws to a close, I feel several conclusions can now be drawn about their origins:

1. Some are definitely made by plankers - but usually the crap, insignificant and small scale ones, with lots of damage to the crop.

2. Some most certainly COULD be made by secret military technology, eg masers, but..

3. There is still a very large unknown quantity to the whole mystery that can't be adequately explained by either of the above, such as the points that Hagbard made about the recurring themes to do with the locations of crop circles; the intricate internal details that have been seen on a number of formations this year; the energies that are detected/felt by people visiting them; the numerous sightings of orbs in and around them; and the often highly significant designs, often featuring sacred geometry, encoded messages or predictions for future solar/astrological events.

There is also still a very big WHY hanging over the secret technology theory. It really doesn't make any sense that they would do so many, when 99% of the population couldn't give a shit about the whole mystery.

It's been a great year! :)


Agree with the above points you made, far too much oddities to lump ALL formations into ONE origin here.

[jamesc]

This guy once emailed me because I'd called him a disinformer on the DarkConspiracy forum. I apologized for that.:o But I asked him if he was saying that all crop circles, without exception, were made by him and his Plankers. He never answered me.:confused:


Wonder WHY ,his silence is enough for me to think he has not or could not.:cool:

[phildee3]

Yes the artefacts BUILT ON THEM but the actuall ley- lines are energy channels not to be confused that man made these energy lines.:cool:



After years of studying this subject, James,
and with all due respect,
nobody has been able to show if
i) man built on pre-existing energy lines, or if
ii) the placement of the artifacts themselves invoked earth energies.

The definition of a ley line (coined by Alfred Watkins) is simply a straight line in the landscape formed by three or more significant, natural or man-made features.

Some leys are energetic, some not.
Some energy lines have features along them, some not - but I've never known one without features to be dead straight like a ley.

[jamesc]

After years of studying this subject, James,
and with all due respect,
nobody has been able to show if:
i) man built on pre-existing energy lines, or
ii) the artifacts themselves invoked earth energies.

The definition of a ley line (coined by Alfred Watkins) is simply a straight line in the landscape formed by three or more significant, natural or man-made features.


With all due respect to you i tend to take the view from a occult angle on ley-lines or energy grids as real possibilities of methods of displacing energy around the earth.We all know that most Christian churches or sacred sites are built on pagan sites containg ley -lines,After studying most occult teachings i feel that there is a strong possibility that the ancients new far more about ley lines than we presently do.Icke has in previous books explained quite well the nature and purpose of ley-lines or energy grids, dowsing is a very good example of energies being contained in ley-lines or energy grids.So forgive me if i choose to differ on the view that ley-lines are merely just simple lines.

[phildee3]

With all due respect to you i tend to take the view from a occult angle on ley-lines or energy grids as real possibilities of methods of displacing energy around the earth.



I think you mean "distributing" rather than "displacing."
Yes, so do I.



We all know that most Christian churches or sacred sites are built on pagan sites containg ley -lines



Not true.
Some (a large minority) are built on earlier sacred sites, certainly.
A small minority of them are on ley lines.



So forgive me if i choose to differ on the view that ley-lines are merely just simple lines.



You can differ all you want.
That doesn't change the fact that a ley line, as defined by the man who first came up with the term, is a straight line of three or more features regardless of whether or not they carry energy.

Energy lines are not necessarily straight - or in a fixed position like a ley line. They often fluctuate side to side.

They are two seperate phenomena - although they can coincide.

[presence]

That inexplicable unknown is precisely what we should expect from a non-human intelligence beyond our own.

We can only ever understand a higher intelligence according to the limits of our own lower, and human, intelligence, which necessarily therefore will never be a full understanding.

Also, we can only ever understand a higher intelligence to the extent that it wants us to understand. It (they perhaps) will run rings around us every time.

Therefore, as after all these decades of research we still have this inexplicable unknown, maybe it's time to, with humility and non-violence, stop trying to understand and ask for help!

[jamesc]

I think you mean "distributing" rather than "displacing."
Yes, so do I.



Not true.
Some (a large minority) are built on earlier sacred sites, certainly.
A small minority of them are on ley lines.

(yes i do understand and i can see that but what i was trying to say is the ley lines could possibly contain energy grids).

You can differ all you want.
That doesn't change the fact that a ley line, as defined by the man who first came up with the term, is a straight line of three or more features regardless of whether or not they carry energy.(Again i see that but my main point was not on the physical markings or distribution proportions but on the fact that some can contain or carry energy grids regardless of the physical straight lines.)

Energy lines are not necessarily straight - or in a fixed position like a ley line. They often fluctuate side to side.(true, some meet and criss cross).

They are two seperate phenomena - although they can coincide.(yes they can be but who is to say that these ley- lines can in fact contain energy).

All in all i do agree in what you term a ley-line but for me i do think they CAN possibly have something to do with energy grids.:cool:

[jamesc]

That inexplicable unknown is precisely what we should expect from a non-human intelligence beyond our own.

We can only ever understand a higher intelligence according to the limits of our own lower, and human, intelligence, which necessarily therefore will never be a full understanding.

Also, we can only ever understand a higher intelligence to the extent that it wants us to understand. It (they perhaps) will run rings around us every time.

Therefore, as after all these decades of research we still have this inexplicable unknown, maybe it's time to, with humility and non-violence, stop trying to understand and ask for help!



Could they simply be testing or keeping watch on our evolutionary progress or learning advancements like teachers do with different children's age groups in early learning to primary to higher education.:confused::cool:

[phildee3]

yes they can be but who is to say that these ley- lines can in fact contain energy.



Dowsers.

Or you could check with one of these:
http://www.trifield.com/EMF_meter.htm



All in all i do agree in what you term a ley-line but for me i do think they CAN possibly have something to do with energy grids.



Some do. Some don't.
The big mystery though, even to the expert, ley hunters, is:
Which came first, the energy or the monuments?
Do the monuments mark (or enhance) a pre-existing line of energy, or do they create it?

And why are some ley-lines completely devoid of energy?

[jamesc]

Dowsers.
(Yes dowsers, i think this has been down by a few of them in various cropformations.)
Or you could check with one of these:
http://www.trifield.com/EMF_meter.htm(will do cheers).:)



Some do. Some don't.
The big mystery though, even to the expert, ley hunters, is:
Which came first, the energy or the monuments?

Ah the big question, what came first, the giant pyramids in Gaza OR ANY pyramid shape is said to be the perfect energy trap or conductor.Is it any wonder that there are so many pyramid structures in different ancient cultures.One could say that the energy was there always like the energy grids on earth and these structures were merely built to concentrate and purify these energies.:confused:

[phildee3]

Ah the big question, what came first, the giant pyramids in Gaza OR ANY pyramid shape is said to be the perfect energy trap or conductor.Is it any wonder that there are so many pyramid structures in different ancient cultures.One could say that the energy was there always like the energy grids on earth and these structures were merely built to concentrate and purify these energies.:confused:



One could say that, but would one be right?

Some would say that the primary purpose of the pyramids is to transmit the dead to the otherworld and that any energetic anomalies are just side effects.

[jamesc]

One could say that, but would one be right?

Some would say that the primary purpose of the pyramids is to transmit the dead to the otherworld and that any energetic anomalies are just side effects.

Yes that was the perceptions of the hieroglyphics deciphered by Egyptian scholars.Think i read some were also that these ancient burial grounds were protected by ancient Egyptian hight occult priests, that is ,they were aware of these energies contained by the building of the pyramid structure and manipulated these energies.Some were dark forces or highly negative priests who used these energies in the opposite or reversed ways as the interfernance or opening of these tombs would have a sort of release of these built up highly negative manipulated energies.In short there are those who perfectly understand the uses of these energy's ,some for good causes or healing and knowledge and some for manipulated negativity on the earth's energy grids that some say effect human conciousness here on earth.Mybe some of the symbolism in these crop formations are a pointer or warning about these energies.Far out i know but i like to keep ALL possibilities open and in mind.:D

[jamesc]

Pyramid: Spiritual - Theosophy Dictionary on Pyramids.


Pyramid The square pyramid as a symbol is an amplification of the triangle: it has lines, triangles, and a square, proceeding from a point downwards or conversely upwards merging into a point at the apex. Thus we have the four numbers of the tetraktys represented by point, line, triangle, and square.

(COULD SOME OF THE CROP FORMATIONS BE POINTING TO INFORMATION EITHER DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY AT THE USAGES OR MEANINGS OF THE SYMBOLISM USED IN SOME FORMATIONS AS A METAPHOR FOR DEEPER RESEARCH OR UNDERSTANDING).:cool::confused:

Reference is usually to stone monuments, especially those of Egypt and chiefly to the Great Pyramid of Cheops. All these pyramids, whether in Egypt, Central America, or elsewhere, are records constructed by initiates who journeyed to many lands, for the preservation of sacred knowledge through the dark ages, to be available to posterity.



In seeking to explain the meaning of these records we are faced with the difficulty of interpreting an ancient science into terms of modern ideas.;) The science of those days was a comprehensive whole, which has become decomposed into sundered fragments, which seem to us, because of having lost the keys to the ancient wisdom which brought about the construction of these noble monuments, to be unrelated to each other.;)



Were the pyramids initiation chambers, records of astronomical data, of mathematical truths, or of standard measurements? They were all of these and more. When the candidate passed through the processes of initiation he enacted in his own person the self-same processes which occur on the cosmic scale, on the principle of the master-key of analogy, the size, shape, and orientation of the passages and chambers signifying at once cosmic and human mysteries.:cool:
(ARE SOME FORMATIONS ACTUAL INITIATION FORMATIONS AND CONTAIN MATHEMATICAL TRUTHS OR PROCESSES).:confused:


A profound lore of numbers, measures, and their relation to the cosmic plan impelled their architects to build their records according to these now forgotten mathematical principles.;) Many investigators have discovered fragments of this lore but have not succeeded in reconstructing the whole out of the fragments.:rolleyes::eek:



The angle between a side of the base and the slant height is in the neighborhood of 51 degrees 50 minutes; and within the limits of a difference of only three minutes of arc we obtain three remarkable results: 1) the periphery of the base is 2 times the height; 2) the cosine of this angle is .618 . . ., the ratio of the Divine Section; and 3) the ratio of the slant height to a side of the base is that of the ten-month lunar year to the solar year.



If a certain ancient cubit be taken and used as unit, the side of the base gives the number of days in the solar year. Certain of our measures, usually believed to be arbitrary and modern, are thought by some to be based on cosmic facts and to be preserved in the Great Pyramid. That the decimal notation was used is shown by the fact that certain significant numbers are derived from each other by permutation of the digits, which would not hold good in any other scale or system of notation. The orientation shows the four cardinal points and symbolizes the four elements.

(THERE HAVE BEEN SOME FORMATIONS THAT HAVE CONTAINED SOLAR SYMBOLISM , 7TH JULY SOLAR FLARE ACTIVITY).

The age of the Great Pyramid is hinted by Blavatsky to be at least three precessional cycles, or about 78,000 years, old (SD 2:432).:confused:


http://www.experiencefestival.com/a/Pyramid/id/135837

[phildee3]

(COULD SOME OF THE CROP FORMATIONS BE POINTING TO INFORMATION EITHER DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY AT THE USAGES OR MEANINGS OF THE SYMBOLISM USED IN SOME FORMATIONS AS A METAPHOR FOR DEEPER RESEARCH OR UNDERSTANDING).:cool::confused:



Without a doubt.
Ain't that the definition of a symbol??



Reference is usually to stone monuments, especially those of Egypt and chiefly to the Great Pyramid of Cheops.



The CCs referring to the pyramids?
I disagree. One or two maybe.
Both the pyramids and the CCs reference sacred geometry.



(ARE SOME FORMATIONS ACTUAL INITIATION FORMATIONS AND CONTAIN MATHEMATICAL TRUTHS OR PROCESSES).



Without a doubt!

I think you are making more of a connection to the pyramids than is there though.

[jamesc]

Without a doubt.
Ain't that the definition of a symbol??



The CCs referring to the pyramids?
I disagree. One or two maybe.
Both the pyramids and the CCs reference sacred geometry.

(yes one or two i agree also that the sacred geometry of some formations could be aligned to the same energy sources that the pyramids contain/attract or influence).

Without a doubt!

I think you are making more of a connection to the pyramids than is there though.(sorry did not mean too but i suppose connections of sacred geometry can come in different areas of symbolism even if its not in design,(pyramids)The main interest for me is in what connections/attractions can be seen to symbolise using a metaphor to point to the actual source the sacred geometry is portraying).:eek::cool:

Yes i do feel that some formations are pointing to sacred or forgotten geometry though.

[thirdwave]

How do YOU think crop circles are made?

I have no idea.

I am inclined to believe there are more than likely several creators and methods.

[jamesc]

I have no idea.

I am inclined to believe there are more than likely several creators and methods.

Correct, too much data to say its only from one source.

[phildee3]

Correct, too much data to say its only from one source.



So let's be studying the dynamics of the relationships between them.

For starters:
The more unknown forces are involved, the more likely the military are involved too.

[jamesc]

So let's be studying the dynamics of the relationships between them.

For starters:
The more unknown forces are involved, the more likely the military are involved too.

Secret technology,(MASER), yes that's one but Alien is one too that i would not dismiss. There are many dynamics of the relationships between them and the two mentioned just now are possible but we also have to look at the nature of the symbolism and what it contains or attempts to communicate.This is the important point i feel can lead to a better understanding as to what unknown forces are behind some of these formations.

[phildee3]

Secret technology,(MASER), yes that's one but Alien is one too that i would not dismiss.



We should neither dismiss nor accept it.
Unknown is unknown.



There are many dynamics of the relationships between them and the two mentioned just now are possible but we also have to look at the nature of the symbolism and what it contains or attempts to communicate.This is the important point i feel can lead to a better understanding as to what unknown forces are behind some of these formations.



That has been the approach of classic CC research for years. It seems to be at a bit of an impasse so I'm suggesting a new one.

[presence]

Could they simply be testing or keeping watch on our evolutionary progress or learning advancements like teachers do with different children's age groups in early learning to primary to higher education.:confused::cool:
Yes indeed.

Therefore, as suggested, we the children should stop trying to understand the motives and knowledge of the teachers as if we are equals, and start asking for help in learning the current lessons. E.g. how do we clean up our own backyards? Heal the sick? Feed the hungry? Stop killing each other? Save ourselves from our own self destructive tendencies? Stop destroying our own planet?

But instead of learning these mundane lessons staring us in the face, we continue to speculate endlessly about eseterica, like Nero fiddling while Rome burns.

[jamesc]

Yes indeed.

Therefore, as suggested, we the children should stop trying to understand the motives and knowledge of the teachers as if we are equals, and start asking for help in learning the current lessons. E.g. how do we clean up our own backyards? Heal the sick? Feed the hungry? Stop killing each other? Save ourselves from our own self destructive tendencies? Stop destroying our own planet?

But instead of learning these mundane lessons staring us in the face, we continue to speculate endlessly about eseterica, like Nero fiddling while Rome burns.



Well i wound not disagree with your points and it would be interesting as to what reactions we would get in the form of the symbolism in new "REACTION FORMATIONS" from the unknown intelligecies in their reply"s to our "asking" for help.In what forms would these "asking" for help come in?There has been some suggestions from abduction experienced people that they cannot directly interfere with any given civilisation on its evolutioninary journey.They apparently can "OFFER HINTS" but in such a way as we fully learn to understand the implications, applications and methods used to help ourselfs and that we learn to work things out by our own thinking and methods of discovery.

[elton]

Well i wound not disagree with your points and it would be interesting as to what reactions we would get in the form of the symbolism in new "REACTION FORMATIONS" from the unknown intelligecies in their reply"s to our "asking" for help.In what forms would these "asking" for help come in?There has been some suggestions from abduction experienced people that they cannot directly interfere with any given civilisation on its evolutioninary journey.They apparently can "OFFER HINTS" but in such a way as we fully learn to understand the implications, applications and methods used to help ourselfs and that we learn to work things out by our own thinking and methods of discovery.

That may be true but I think they are more sinister in origin. It may be an attempt to control by subliminal auto-suggestion. I don't think its anything that could be directed towards a sentient conscious mind. It could even be directed towards animals rather than humans.

[presence]

Well i wound not disagree with your points and it would be interesting as to what reactions we would get in the form of the symbolism in new "REACTION FORMATIONS" from the unknown intelligecies in their reply"s to our "asking" for help.In what forms would these "asking" for help come in?There has been some suggestions from abduction experienced people that they cannot directly interfere with any given civilisation on its evolutioninary journey.They apparently can "OFFER HINTS" but in such a way as we fully learn to understand the implications, applications and methods used to help ourselfs and that we learn to work things out by our own thinking and methods of discovery.
Yes, it's an interesting question as to how to ask for help, and what to expect in response.

And yes, I agree that we must learn to stand on our own feet as it were, be our own teachers, apply our own methods and make our own discoveries.

Maybe it's a matter of knowing how to look and thereby see the help we might need when we need it. So, for example, if I'm self-centredly wrapped up in my own self importance, I'm more likely to miss something I need to see. Or if I'm dogmatically determined to believe something even in the face of strong evidence to the contrary, then again I'm likely to miss something or make mistakes; etc.

These sorts of examples suggest for example that learning is more likely to take place with a flexible mind and a looser self-image. Perhaps no self-image at all and a totally quiet mind! Maybe the highest intelligence is not so far away at all, but we block it with our opinions and selfish interests, our fears, and what we think we already know.

I agree, let's be our own teachers. And let's be willing to make mistakes and learn from them and move on. Kids learn to walk by falling down. They need only the occasional helping hand to prevent them falling in a fire perhaps. They need only feel willing to learn and accept the helping hand when it's offered. Then they'll do fine without needing to know all about the helping hand, when or why it appears etc.

At least that's my attitude.

[presence]

That may be true but I think they are more sinister in origin. It may be an attempt to control by subliminal auto-suggestion. I don't think its anything that could be directed towards a sentient conscious mind. It could even be directed towards animals rather than humans.
I appreciate your concerns about possible malevolent influences. Such attempted influences are all around us. The history of humanity, and the current media, is replete with examples. And indeed, possible extraterrestrial malevolent influences could present even greater danger, accompanied as it would be with superior technology and a possibly totally alien and unknown way of thinking.

How do we protect ourselves from such influences, whether extraterrestrial or terrestrial?

The principle point that stands out to me is our own disposition to follow-the-leader, to follow an authority, to behave like sheep and look for a shepard. Notice this disposition and drop it. As stated in my above response to Jamesc, we agree that be-your-own-teacher is the way to go. That doesn't mean that we never accept help. It does mean that we remain flexible and alert and so less likely to be misled or influenced negatively.

Maybe others can add to this. Or disagree if they like. I certainly agree that we should look at this question of what influences us and why. And learn...

[elton]

I appreciate your concerns about possible malevolent influences. Such attempted influences are all around us. The history of humanity, and the current media, is replete with examples. And indeed, possible extraterrestrial malevolent influences could present even greater danger, accompanied as it would be with superior technology and a possibly totally alien and unknown way of thinking.

How do we protect ourselves from such influences, whether extraterrestrial or terrestrial?

The principle point that stands out to me is our own disposition to follow-the-leader, to follow an authority, to behave like sheep and look for a shepard. Notice this disposition and drop it. As stated in my above response to Jamesc, we agree that be-your-own-teacher is the way to go. That doesn't mean that we never accept help. It does mean that we remain flexible and alert and so less likely to be misled or influenced negatively.

Maybe others can add to this. Or disagree if they like. I certainly agree that we should look at this question of what influences us and why. And learn...

I just think you and james may be too trusting of others motives, even aliens. They could be planning an attack and this may be the propaganda arm of their strategy. CCs may also be a sign not to humans on earth but maybe animals. Birds?

[jamesc]

I just think you and james may be too trusting of others motives, even aliens. They could be planning an attack and this may be the propaganda arm of their strategy. CCs may also be a sign not to humans on earth but maybe animals. Birds?

Well who can say the real nature of anyone's motives are always benevolent , i guess you just have to use your own ways of detecting possible malevolence in any forms of motives.True, forms or attempts of disinformation aimed at drawing one in on false pretences or meanings is always a real threat but one has levels of judgement that can sometimes detect malevolence in even forms of a benevolent nature , as in ones own intuition.:cool:

[jamesc]

Yes, it's an interesting question as to how to ask for help, and what to expect in response.

And yes, I agree that we must learn to stand on our own feet as it were, be our own teachers, apply our own methods and make our own discoveries.

Maybe it's a matter of knowing how to look and thereby see the help we might need when we need it. So, for example, if I'm self-centredly wrapped up in my own self importance, I'm more likely to miss something I need to see. Or if I'm dogmatically determined to believe something even in the face of strong evidence to the contrary, then again I'm likely to miss something or make mistakes; etc.

These sorts of examples suggest for example that learning is more likely to take place with a flexible mind and a looser self-image. Perhaps no self-image at all and a totally quiet mind! Maybe the highest intelligence is not so far away at all, but we block it with our opinions and selfish interests, our fears, and what we think we already know.

I agree, let's be our own teachers. And let's be willing to make mistakes and learn from them and move on. Kids learn to walk by falling down. They need only the occasional helping hand to prevent them falling in a fire perhaps. They need only feel willing to learn and accept the helping hand when it's offered. Then they'll do fine without needing to know all about the helping hand, when or why it appears etc.

At least that's my attitude.

Yes i agree with your points raised and maybe if we all can lose our ready made beliefs and have total open mined approachs and attitudes we might all learn things that as you say get blocked, diluted or rejected by our own predigests.Open minded research is the key here i think.

[hagbard_celine]

Wonder WHY ,his silence is enough for me to think he has not or could not.:cool:


Me too. Another famous Planker, Matthew Williams, has made a similar response. He did admit that there were formations that appear which he doesn't know who did theem, but he assumes this means that there are circlemaking teams which he has no cconnection to. He also vehmently and aggressivley rejects the Leavengood Study. A bit too vehmently I think.;):D

[elton]

Well who can say the real nature of anyone's motives are always benevolent , i guess you just have to use your own ways of detecting possible malevolence in any forms of motives.True, forms or attempts of disinformation aimed at drawing one in on false pretences or meanings is always a real threat but one has levels of judgement that can sometimes detect malevolence in even forms of a benevolent nature , as in ones own intuition.:cool:

Thats what they want you to think! Be careful you are not being sucked into being an agent. How do you know the aliens are not trying to identify human agents they can brainwash? you may be the type of person they want to attract.

And you definately can't rule out that this may be communications with animals rather than humans.

[jamesc]

Thats what they want you to think! Be careful you are not being sucked into being an agent. How do you know the aliens are not trying to identify human agents they can brainwash? you may be the type of person they want to attract.

And you definately can't rule out that this may be communications with animals rather than humans.


Me being who i am will never rule out anything but careful i am by nature and as they say if sometimes you do not take small risks then it cannot be really worth it in the end.:cool:;)

[elton]

Me being who i am will never rule out anything but careful i am by nature and as they say if sometimes you do not take small risks then it cannot be really worth it in the end.:cool:;)


Hmmmm. For all we know you may already have been taken over by the aliens. You may not be able to distinguish that yourself.

[jamesc]

Hmmmm. For all we know you may already have been taken over by the aliens. You may not be able to distinguish that yourself.

And for all you know you could be entirely wrong.Were are you trying to go with this form of autosugestion ,claiming that i iam some sort of brainwashed alien vehicle?? I take it this paranoia is compilable for ALL people who have views on possible alien origins for some formations??Dont see you claiming anyone else on here could be possible brainwashed receivers.:cool:;):rolleyes:

[presence]

Well who can say the real nature of anyone's motives are always benevolent , i guess you just have to use your own ways of detecting possible malevolence in any forms of motives.True, forms or attempts of disinformation aimed at drawing one in on false pretences or meanings is always a real threat but one has levels of judgement that can sometimes detect malevolence in even forms of a benevolent nature , as in ones own intuition.:cool:
If someone stops you walking into the path of a Mack truck, do you question their motives?

I agree that with an unknown, ambiguous and equivocal 'message', like crop circles, we should tread warily - but not stop altogether and reject something possibly of great value. Paranoia has it's place, but in small doses.

Two Russian scientists claim to have deciphered a code in crop circles. They say further that extraterrestrials are through crop circles warning us of fluctuations and a slowing down of our magnetosphere, and about what we can do about that.

Should we take heed of that advice or ignore it? We know about solar flares. We know that a big enough one would wipe out our electric grids. We know that our magnetic poles reverse occasionally. We know that massive species extinctions occur during those reversals... So, do we listen to the ETs or suspect malevolent motives?

You think I'm too trusting. People see orbs around crop circles. I've never seen that myself. However, many years ago while speeding well in excess of the speed limit into my local village, I saw a row of orbs crossing the road from left to right. I braked hard, and rounded the blind bend into the village centre to see a row of school kids crossing the road from left to right. The teacher stood in the middle of the road stopping traffic. I remain to this day a slower driver and very very grateful to whatever it was that slowed me down.

Humanity is currently speeding towards an abyss of self-destruction... Something's trying to help us...

[presence]

PS I was answering Elton, not Jamesc

[jamesc]

PS I was answering Elton, not Jamesc

Well i thought as much, the old slip of the finger on the key board can be mischievous, imagine what NASA scientists could stir up with the odd slip.:D

Good reply in your post.:)

[jamesc]

Morgans Hill, Nr Bishop Cannings, Wiltshire. Reported 2nd August.





http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/2009/morganshill/20090802morganshill-06.jpg

Carolyn Anderson.

I can see in this figure the significance of number 4. In the Tzolkin calendar the Galactic tone Four is stability. Four is the cube, the most stable of all form, and the establishment of volume by definition. The four directions give orientation to any form as the height, length; depth and breath give shape to any form. The energy of four sets the parameters, which establish the freedoms and barriers needed to create a game, work, or relationship. http://www.mayanmajix.com/

If you want to enter in the understanding of the number 4, I strongly suggest reading the Wiki article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_4







http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/2009/morganshill/2lamat.jpg
Marie-Claude Darrigade (France)

The diamond shape in the centre is similar to the Mayan Lamat symbol --the 2 august ,the 13 moon dream spell calendar date was kin 11, Blue Spectral Monkey, the galactic signature of Jose Arguelles, Galactic time traveller Valum Votan, the Mayan serpent initiate, decoder of the ancient Mayan calendar system, He is the founder of Planet Art Network and the Foundation for the Law of Time and the closer of the cycle 2012, affirmation for Blue Spectral Monkey.



square geometry................. 1.414 or root2 throughout.

Tramlines, gives the formation a number...3

3 X 1.414 = 4.242 (draw lines through 2 small circles tangent to larger circle) and get box with 4.242 on the side)
3/1.414 = 2.121

4.242 + 2.121 = 6.363 = 1/0.157 or 1/(PI/20)

formation shows forth '16'...which is also '12' and '4'

12 / PI = 3.819 = 1/0.2617 = 1/(PHI^2/10)
12 X PI = 37.7 (15 + 11.777 + 11)

4 / PI = 1.272 = 1.618^0.5
4 X PI = 12.566

small right angle triangles...count = 336...with 144 (forming stars) and 192 (forming squares)
144/192 = 0.75 or 1.333^0.5

small right angle triangles 'missing' = 32 outside and 16 inside = 48

number '9' hidden in the out.....
number '9' hidden in centre with Vesica Pisces...entire internal geometry is Vesica throughout. 7 circles on each side.....

Fibonacci '9th' = 34

inner 'box' of right angle triangles (stars and pyramids) surrounding curved internal Vesica-like 'eyes'.
"straight line geometry 'housing' curved geometry".........
suggesting inter-relation of PI, obviously and motion.....

4 fold geometry 'pedals'...observed in nature, in weeds and many plants.

the stars and pyramids 'feel' like a fence for a garden and the 'pedals' are plants. Summer time........and also timing for garden veggies when things are ripe..
garden of Eden?............ creation..........

SYMMETRY ALL AROUND. NO SYMMETRY BREAKING. ALL IS HARMONIOUS.

Solar Star & MATTIHORN

Flower of Life: flower of life

There are:
8 small circles on the outer rim.
12 small circles (the center of each small square that forms the larger square).
1 larger circle at the center of the crop circle.
4 partial circles (each corner).
1 large circle formed by 4 portions of the outer rim (N,S,E & W).
26 circles in all, which is reducible to the number 8. With respect to a human beings life, the number 8 is the “most powerful of all numbers.” numerology-meaning-of-number-8

This crop circle is possibly indicating that humanities evolution is, or will be, enhanced by the maximum spiritual power soon.:cool:

http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/2009/august2009.html
Interesting.:cool:

[presence]

The board or roller marks strongly suggest a mechanical construction.

I saw this pattern from a nearby hill, and the angry farmer driving people out. He had a sign up, something like ' Keep out. Shooting in progress' I respected his wishes. Others didn't. One person standing next to me said he's asked the farmer's permission and been refused. 'I've never seen anyone so angry' he said about the farmer.

I feel sorry for the farmers. But we can continue to enjoy our Rorscharch tests from a distance.

[elton]

The board or roller marks strongly suggest a mechanical construction.

I saw this pattern from a nearby hill, and the angry farmer driving people out. He had a sign up, something like ' Keep out. Shooting in progress' I respected his wishes. Others didn't. One person standing next to me said he's asked the farmer's permission and been refused. 'I've never seen anyone so angry' he said about the farmer.

I feel sorry for the farmers. But we can continue to enjoy our Rorscharch tests from a distance.

OK fair enough. This one looks a bit of a stomper-board effort.

[jamesc]

OK fair enough. This one looks a bit of a stomper-board effort.

And of course these stompers are very adverse in the symbolism too..:confused::rolleyes:
SYMMETRY ALL AROUND. NO SYMMETRY BREAKING. ALL IS HARMONIOUS.:cool:


http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/2009/morganshill/20090802morganshill-06.jpg



The diamond shape in the centre is similar to the Mayan Lamat symbol --the 2 august ,the 13 moon dream spell calendar date was kin 11, Blue Spectral Monkey, the galactic signature of Jose Arguelles, Galactic time traveller Valum Votan, the Mayan serpent initiate, decoder of the ancient Mayan calendar system, He is the founder of Planet Art Network and the Foundation for the Law of Time and the closer of the cycle 2012, affirmation for Blue Spectral Monkey.

http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/2009/morganshill/2lamat.jpg

square geometry................. 1.414 or root2 throughout.:cool:

[presence]

'ALL IS HARMONIOUS' except for the farmer.

I'd prefer harmony in human relations than in a computer generated pattern.

[lostinstrangeworld]

Don't you know its the hedgehogs and porcupines rolling around in the crops that form these formations! Perhaps we should try to communicate to these assumed humble creatures and see if they can help the human race!

'Nuff said. :D

[presence]

Don't you know its the hedgehogs and porcupines rolling around in the crops that form these formations! Perhaps we should try to communicate to these assumed humble creatures and see if they can help the human race!

'Nuff said. :D
Ask N'kisi

'The finding of a parrot with an almost unparalleled power to communicate with people has brought scientists up short. The bird, a captive African grey called N'kisi, has a vocabulary of 950 words, and shows signs of a sense of humour. He invents his own words and phrases if he is confronted with novel ideas with which his existing repertoire cannot cope - just as a human child would do. N'kisi's remarkable abilities, which are said to include telepathy, feature in the latest BBC Wildlife Magazine. N'kisi is believed to be one of the most advanced users of human language in the animal world.'

[stockstalker]

An updated view on crop circles origin: "As above, so below."

=> Crop circles will appear, wherever there is interest in them.

=> Crop circles mostly absent in mainstream news media, school/university teachings, and the likes, even though they have been around for thousands of years, is a clear indication that either the Illuminati are not "in on it", or don't want the average Joe to focus his attention on them. Now, why would that be? Ring a bell? ;)

=> Reptilians invented and manipulate words to keep us from knowing the truth. Whoever is/are making the crop circles choose to use symbols to communicate with human beings instead of words, to keep the spiritual meaning of the message intact, free from the constraints of reptilian-based manipulated words.

=> Gravity causes crops to flatten. Something from above pre-designed the gravity field within (and below) the crop plants, so they would fall in a precise pattern upon receiving some kind of cue, like a blast of microwave, or infra/ultrasound, or specific thoughts (psy-beam).

=> If we assume that crop circles are made by inter-dimensional beings, then those beings are used to seeing energy frequencies in the higher dimensions and may not function in linear time-------- therefore cannot really observe the physical matter reality as we see it. Hence, they occasionally deploy probes (orbs of light) to facilitate their observation our 3-D matter reality in linear time.

=> The design of the crop circle is the trivial part, designed to lure human beings to enter the space (energy field) within it and explore. In other words, the energy enclosed within the space occupied by the crop circle is far more important than the visual message it is trying to convey. Herein lies Nassim Haramein's specialty-------- the geometry of space-time. (ie. it's not what you can see that is the crop circle's message; it's what you can't see, but feel that is the real message. The flashy imagery and symbols are just there to hook your attention and stimulate your curiosity).

=> The greater the frequency of crop circle formations in an area, the greater is the implication that the Illuminati of that area needs serious mental and spiritual help. And, the more awakened are the residents of said area, the more likely it will be for those Illuminati to obtain the needed help from the people they actively manipulate and/or suppress.

[myriadsmallcreature]

Greetings, fellow travellers.

Last night I read this thread until my eyes glazed over. Lots of ebb and flow. Lots of wheat in the chaff. My respects.

The Crabwood alien event is the most interesting to me. It seems to be the raison d'etre for many of the other circles.

Perhaps, anachronistically speaking, it is a response to most of the questions and speculations raised in this thread, in my opinion. Aenigma.

Look closely at the alien. Look at him/her/it right in the eyes. See the frame around it? It may be a window with a sacred shape, or a doorway to some other dimension. But I think it's most compelling to me (without denying any other possibility) to consider the possibility that...

it's a mirror.

[presence]

Greetings, fellow travellers.

Last night I read this thread until my eyes glazed over. Lots of ebb and flow. Lots of wheat in the chaff. My respects.

The Crabwood alien event is the most interesting to me. It seems to be the raison d'etre for many of the other circles.

Perhaps, anachronistically speaking, it is a response to most of the questions and speculations raised in this thread, in my opinion. Aenigma.

Look closely at the alien. Look at him/her/it right in the eyes. See the frame around it? It may be a window with a sacred shape, or a doorway to some other dimension. But I think it's most compelling to me (without denying any other possibility) to consider the possibility that...

it's a mirror.
Yes, the glazed eyes. Sometimes we hammer something to death and still it doesn't lie down.

I like the mirror idea. As quantum physics suggests, nothing is, without an observer. Therefore whatever is, reflects us. Therefore there ain't no such thing as an alien. Indeed, no 'other' exists at all. It's nice to know we're home. Nowhere to go. Nothing to fear.

The origin of crop circles is, therefore, me! Problem solved.

[phildee3]

Look closely at the alien. Look at him/her/it right in the eyes. See the frame around it? It may be a window with a sacred shape, or a doorway to some other dimension. But I think it's most compelling to me (without denying any other possibility) to consider the possibility that...

it's a mirror.



I've always seen it as a window to their dimension, the hand and the data disc coming through,

http://www.medwaycropcircle.co.uk/Crabwood%20Alien%20SA.jpg

I also think they could be us in the distant future - the "other dimension" being time (the fourth).


We're all one anyway.

[jamesc]

I've always seen it as a window to their dimension, the hand and the data disc coming through,

http://www.medwaycropcircle.co.uk/Crabwood%20Alien%20SA.jpg

I also think they could be us in the distant future - the "other dimension" being time (the fourth).


We're all one anyway.


Interesting point on could be us in the future, this was brought up from the following man.
"My name is TSgt. John Burroughs. In December 1980 I was a first hand witness to the strange events that took place in Rendlesham forest out side the Bentwaters RAF base where I was stationed. It is my intention to put together a 30 year reunion next year at RAF Bentwaters for all of the witnesses involved in the incident."

The link below is from the interview he gave on his experiences and goes on to discuss on what he thinks could be time travellers or us in the future, this was revealed by him after regression and the 20 mins of missing time he apparently had.
http://www.theparacast.com/podcasts/paracast_090621.mp3

[phildee3]

The link below is from the interview he gave on his experiences and goes on to discuss on what he thinks could be time travellers or us in the future, this was revealed by him after regression and the 20 mins of missing time he apparently had.
http://www.theparacast.com/podcasts/paracast_090621.mp3



Can you say how many minutes into the interview he says this?

Another possibility is that the image, in the crop, is a projection of our (human) collective consciousness. In it, there is the archetype of the grey, and it has been shown that many formations are psychic projections of human minds.

Whewn I first saw this image it struck my how absolutely archetypical is is - like a cartoon character!

[jamesc]

Can you say how many minutes into the interview he says this?

Another possibility is that the image, in the crop, is a projection of our (human) collective consciousness. In it, there is the archetype of the grey, and it has been shown that many formations are psychic projections of human minds.

Whewn I first saw this image it struck my how absolutely archetypical is is - like a cartoon character!

Off hand i think maybe just over half way in to his interview when he is describing his possible encounters with an intelligent origin or presence.Mind you the whole interview is probably worth listing too so the over all meaning of it in relastionship to his views on possible time travellers or us in the future makes more of a understanding of his view.But his over all view was that he was in contact or experiencing a unknown/alien presence.

[soothseeker]

What do you make of the stars over the beings right shoulder?

To both myself and others it looks like the stars of Orion's Belt (The Three Kings).

The following is taken from wikipedia.

Mintaka garnered the name "Delta Orionis" from Bayer, even though it is the faintest of the three stars in Orion's Belt. It is a multiple star system, composed of a large B-type blue giant and a more massive O-type white star. The Mintaka system constitutes an eclipsing binary variable star, where the eclipse of one star over the other creates a dip in brightness. Mintaka is the westernmost of the three stars that constitute Orion's Belt.

Alnilam was named "Epsilon Orionis," a consequence of Bayer's wish to name the three stars in Orion's Belt (from north to south) in alphabetical order. Alnilam is a B-type blue supergiant, despite being nearly twice as far from the Sun as Mintaka and Alnitak, the other two belt stars, its luminosity makes it nearly equal in magnitude. Alnilam is losing mass quickly, a consequence of its size;[10] it is four million years old, approximately the same age as a hominid skeleton unearthed in Ethiopia in 2005.

Alnitak was designated "Zeta Orionis" by Bayer, and is the easternmost star in Orion's Belt. It is a triple star some 800 light years distant, with the primary star being a hot blue supergiant and the brightest class O star in the night sky.

Coincidently, the Great Pyramids at Giza are also a representation of Orion's Belt as well. Many people believe a race of ET's may have played at least some part in the construction of the pyramids. This crop formation may add more validity to the theory. Also the size of each pyramid has a connection to each of the stars apparent brightness in the night sky.

[myriadsmallcreature]

What do you make of the stars over the beings right shoulder?

Since I was heading in the same direction, I'll field that one.

Without at all denying your interpretation, I'd like to offer that it represents syzygy.

And offer the spiral as something like evidence for that interpretation.

Indeed, the belt of Orion itself passes as a reasonable symbol for syzygy.

To a flatlander.

:)

[phildee3]

What do you make of the stars over the beings right shoulder?



I've always thought they were meant to portray three craft.

That would be consistant with the quality of it being a characiture.

If the creators of this formation are seperate, intelligent entities then they have a great sense of humour and are taking the piss.

[jamesc]

I've always thought they were meant to portray three craft.

That would be consistant with the quality of it being a characiture.

If the creators of this formation are seperate, intelligent entities then they have a great sense of humour and are taking the piss.

Apparently Stribier who wrote the original article in my OP often claims/claimed that these entities do and have a very good sense of humour , in fact he got a great sense of what adults do when having a kindly and playful situations with young children. That was his impression he got from their the kind of logic, intelligence and tecknological capabilities often displayed or witnesses by him.They know a very great deal about us,from our astral bodies and how to instigate projection in us and our personal fears,guilts and desires, in short they have us sussed.:cool:

[phildee3]

Apparently Stribier who wrote the original article in my OP often claims/claimed that these entities do and have a very good sense of humour



Yes, I've seen it many times.

[elton]

Apparently Stribier who wrote the original article in my OP often claims/claimed that these entities do and have a very good sense of humour , in fact he got a great sense of what adults do when having a kindly and playful situations with young children. That was his impression he got from their the kind of logic, intelligence and tecknological capabilities often displayed or witnesses by him.They know a very great deal about us,from our astral bodies and how to instigate projection in us and our personal fears,guilts and desires, in short they have us sussed.:cool:

I can't understand this. Are you saying the aliens are taking the piss out of us for a laugh? No way.

[jamesc]

I can't understand this. Are you saying the aliens are taking the piss out of us for a laugh? No way.

Of course not, they could possibly just be displaying gentle displays of humour with traces of serious messages of ,"wake up", situations.They can also be deadly serious in their attempts at communications , they have shock tactics that simply target a individuals awareness levels to matters of serious concerns that affect him and them.I think they could be at first in a contact gently introduce their presence , like you would do if you were gently trying to wake ones friend, loved one or wife or child from a DEEP sleep to tell them its time to WAKE UP.:cool: Like every thing in life there are different situations that call for different reactions , are they approaching us in the ways they seem will greatly affect our conciousness/sub- conciousness in the most beneficial way for us they can possible do in the present sate of our evolution and UNDERSTANDINGS ??.If these entities are superior in many ways they they have to find ways of communicating far superior information or realities in ways we can understand, can imagine it cannot be easy for them but their persistence can point to a great benevolence from them.:):cool:

[myriadsmallcreature]

It is a very special mirror--like the mirror, mirror on the wall and the Alice's looking glass--which reflects both time and space. A dream image with a parafoveal view. Consciousness of sleep working on the problem and promise of neoteny. A vision of the past casting back a vision of the future.

As adult humans in some ways more closely resemble baby apes than baby apes resemble their parents, so human babies more closely resemble the Son of Man than their own parents. That is the message (one of the messages) of "Childhood's End" and "2001: A Space Odyssey".

Juvenilism as a response to infinite environment of macrocosm and microcosm.

[jamesc]

http://www.google.co.uk/logos/goog_e.gif


Another sign depicting an Alien situation from Google, wonder why??:confused::cool:

[jamesc]

It is a very special mirror--like the mirror, mirror on the wall and the Alice's looking glass--which reflects both time and space. A dream image with a parafoveal view. Consciousness of sleep working on the problem and promise of neoteny. A vision of the past casting back a vision of the future.

As adult humans in some ways more closely resemble baby apes than baby apes resemble their parents, so human babies more closely resemble the Son of Man than their own parents. That is the message (one of the messages) of "Childhood's End" and "2001: A Space Odyssey".

Juvenilism as a response to infinite environment of macrocosm and microcosm.



True and i do not see why not at the present time this formation is simply just saying "look we are here and you in your present understanding or evolutionary state of everything must realise that you and your science DO NOT KNOW ALL THERE IS TO KNOW, SO OPEN UP TO ALL POSSIBILITIES".Taking aside the information or message that was decoded from the disk , this mirrored image and the entity could be from our future or their past.:confused::cool:

[rodin]

I was remote viewing the Julia Set spiraling fractal crop circle after reading Mandelbrot's book on fractals. I made contact with the crop circle designers. I talked to a very nice woman who is the chief scientist of the reptilian Nagas who live in a co-dimension with us here on earth. After exchanging a few pleasantries, she said that she could not see me because they had not acquired by frequency yet. Upon doing so, their remote viewer came into the room which I felt as a wave of water as though I were in a goldfish bowl. The speed of light was so low that the spring constant of space-time had turned the room into a wavy liquid. I was able to follow the remote viewer as he walked around the room by the motorboat-like waves he was generating. Then the woman started by giving me some advice by saying that we humans needed to start a large research and development project into hyperspace physics. She said that many civilizations have collapsed because they did not understand this physics. I agreed with her completely. I then mentioned that my tetrahedron diagram showed that the electron and proton are one and the same particle. She confirmed this by saying that was a good observation for our level of science. I also mentioned that we had obtained the wing fragments of the Roswell spacecraft. She said that nobody has those fragments, and did not believe me. So she had the remote viewer check the validity of what I was saying. He asked me to recall when I had the fragments in my hand, which I visualized. The remote viewer confirmed that I was telling the truth as he read my mind. She exclaimed that, "You are now on your way to the stars!" We both looked at the tetrahedral fractal in Mandelbrots's book. I asked her it there were any evolutionary traits they still retained. She said, "We lost our tails." Just before the dinosaurs were wiped out, the reptiles were put into a co-dimension where they evolved into the intelligent Nagas. After this success, I remote viewed the electron and proton crop circles, and later the large Sentence crop circles. I found out that the two bars on either side of the line mean they live in a higher dimension. Because higher dimensions have more solid angle on their sphere, the spacecraft look like small balls of light (foo fighters). They emit graviational waves that flatten out and twist the crops into shape. Because there is a curvature of space-time, the stalks follow the curvature of space-time and hence are not broken. This is a similar phenomenon as the wee people of Scotland which we Scots have known about for a long time. One of the crop circle designers tested my remote viewing capability which was good out to 80,000 light years as they teleported around to different locations in the galaxy. The radius of the spiritual eye contracts to about 1/3 of its size at those distances, but the communication is still clear and in real time. I was able to do my first energy healing on the president of one planet located about 70,000 light years out. He had a terrible bacterial infection that I moved into a hyperpace co-dimension which cured him. After these experiences, one attains a marvelous cosmological viewpoint with the knowledge that there are people out there who want to help us. More recently I solved the tractal triangle crop circle in which the sum of all the arms of the triangles divided by the length of the periphery is pi or 3.14. I spoke with the woman who designed it and she confirmed the result. They live on the opposite side of the Peiades. It is time to think outside the mental block.

comment @

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/blog/2009/sep/15/google-crop-circles
:D

[myriadsmallcreature]

It is implausible to believe an error was made to a "print" (a portrait in landscape, heh) along an arc. There are a number of reasons rhetorical why the word 'believe' would be the word so affected--a digital communication in an analog environment. It is a statement about the nature of reality and consciousness.

Rodin,

I've got a touch of carpal tunnel; if you could help me out with that, I'd appreciate it. Thanks in advance. And thanks for all the fish.

[thirdwave]

I notice that google had a little crop cricle pic up next to their logo the other day... thought that was odd...

[presence]

I was remote viewing the Julia Set spiraling fractal crop circle after reading Mandelbrot's book on fractals. I made contact with the crop circle designers. I talked to a very nice woman who is the chief scientist of the reptilian Nagas who live in a co-dimension with us here on earth. After exchanging a few pleasantries, she said that she could not see me because they had not acquired by frequency yet. Upon doing so, their remote viewer came into the room which I felt as a wave of water as though I were in a goldfish bowl. The speed of light was so low that the spring constant of space-time had turned the room into a wavy liquid. I was able to follow the remote viewer as he walked around the room by the motorboat-like waves he was generating. Then the woman started by giving me some advice by saying that we humans needed to start a large research and development project into hyperspace physics. She said that many civilizations have collapsed because they did not understand this physics. I agreed with her completely. I then mentioned that my tetrahedron diagram showed that the electron and proton are one and the same particle. She confirmed this by saying that was a good observation for our level of science. I also mentioned that we had obtained the wing fragments of the Roswell spacecraft. She said that nobody has those fragments, and did not believe me. So she had the remote viewer check the validity of what I was saying. He asked me to recall when I had the fragments in my hand, which I visualized. The remote viewer confirmed that I was telling the truth as he read my mind. She exclaimed that, "You are now on your way to the stars!" We both looked at the tetrahedral fractal in Mandelbrots's book. I asked her it there were any evolutionary traits they still retained. She said, "We lost our tails." Just before the dinosaurs were wiped out, the reptiles were put into a co-dimension where they evolved into the intelligent Nagas. After this success, I remote viewed the electron and proton crop circles, and later the large Sentence crop circles. I found out that the two bars on either side of the line mean they live in a higher dimension. Because higher dimensions have more solid angle on their sphere, the spacecraft look like small balls of light (foo fighters). They emit graviational waves that flatten out and twist the crops into shape. Because there is a curvature of space-time, the stalks follow the curvature of space-time and hence are not broken. This is a similar phenomenon as the wee people of Scotland which we Scots have known about for a long time. One of the crop circle designers tested my remote viewing capability which was good out to 80,000 light years as they teleported around to different locations in the galaxy. The radius of the spiritual eye contracts to about 1/3 of its size at those distances, but the communication is still clear and in real time. I was able to do my first energy healing on the president of one planet located about 70,000 light years out. He had a terrible bacterial infection that I moved into a hyperpace co-dimension which cured him. After these experiences, one attains a marvelous cosmological viewpoint with the knowledge that there are people out there who want to help us. More recently I solved the tractal triangle crop circle in which the sum of all the arms of the triangles divided by the length of the periphery is pi or 3.14. I spoke with the woman who designed it and she confirmed the result. They live on the opposite side of the Peiades. It is time to think outside the mental block.

comment @

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/blog/2009/sep/15/google-crop-circles
:D
A monkey can understand a man only as a monkey can.

Remote viewing a more evolved and more intelligent being than the human can only ever reveal a reflection of the human level, with all its hopes, fears, ego, beliefs, attitudes, supposed knowledge and scientific paradigms, assumptions about being a separate entity in a world of 'otherness' etc. etc.

Such remote viewing is therefore necessarily distorted and so we must not take it as literally true.

[jamesc]

A monkey can understand a man only as a monkey can.

Remote viewing a more evolved and more intelligent being than the human can only ever reveal a reflection of the human level, with all its hopes, fears, ego, beliefs, attitudes, supposed knowledge and scientific paradigms, assumptions about being a separate entity in a world of 'otherness' etc. etc.

Such remote viewing is therefore necessarily distorted and so we must not take it as literally true.

Eh ,but were are not monkeys so to assume comparisons with a man's or humans possible developments of understandings to that of a monkey is wrong. Humans have an inherent capacity in our growing evolution to learn from higher intelligences.These intelligences are aware of our present evolutionary capacity to understand and are trying to speed it up with various information.If these intelligences thought we would never fully understand then why did they even start to attempt to communicate and why are they persisting.After all we are ALL ONE.Distortion can come in not fully opening ones mind to ALL Possibilities.:cool:The possibility to understand is infinite and so is the human mind.:)

[presence]

Eh ,but were are not monkeys so to assume comparisons with a man's or humans possible developments of understandings to that of a monkey is wrong. Humans have an inherent capacity in our growing evolution to learn from higher intelligences.These intelligences are aware of our present evolutionary capacity to understand and are trying to speed it up with various information.If these intelligences thought we would never fully understand then why did they even start to attempt to communicate and why are they persisting.After all we are ALL ONE.Distortion can come in not fully opening ones mind to ALL Possibilities.:cool:The possibility to understand is infinite and so is the human mind.:)
I agree, the possibility is there to gradually evolve, learn, grow, mature, etc. But it doesn't happen instantaneously. Some ETs may be millions of years ahead of us. Remote viewing their knowledge, wisdom, intelligence, scientific understanding of reality, etc. may take us millions of years to comprehend at their level. Meanwhile we can understand only at the level of development we currently have, the current human level.

I agree that we can learn from them, and indeed should strive to do so. But to get to their level may take significant genetic and paradigm changes over a very long time.

To suppose that we can instantly fully understand, and taking everything our limited brains interpret as the literal truth, is a bit like kindergarten kids supposing they can instantly fully understand the teacher's whole knowledge base and world-view.

To grow spiritually it's essential to keep one's feet on the ground. And we've got to learn to walk before we can learn to run.

[jamesc]

I agree, the possibility is there to gradually evolve, learn, grow, mature, etc. But it doesn't happen instantaneously. Some ETs may be millions of years ahead of us. Remote viewing their knowledge, wisdom, intelligence, scientific understanding of reality, etc. may take us millions of years to comprehend at their level. Meanwhile we can understand only at the level of development we currently have, the current human level.

I agree that we can learn from them, and indeed should strive to do so. But to get to their level may take significant genetic and paradigm changes over a very long time.

To suppose that we can instantly fully understand, and taking everything our limited brains interpret as the literal truth, is a bit like kindergarten kids supposing they can instantly fully understand the teacher's whole knowledge base and world-view.

To grow spiritually it's essential to keep one's feet on the ground. And we've got to learn to walk before we can learn to run.


Yes i agree with your points you made above, there seems to be a general conception in human thinking or understanding just now and in the past that we must learn OR UNDERSTAND THIS INFORMATION NOW.The idea that time is an illusion and in that conception it begs the questions that we will learn in our own timeless infinite ways.Do we as a species have infinity at our disposal ,if we have and this conception is universal, then there is no need to panic, sit back and enjoy the ride, cause understanding will come when we least expect it, take care, JC.:)

[shipoffools]

I found thisquite interesting with regard to 'investigators' :

On 3/4th August 2001 Circlemaker Matthew Williams and his 'team' made an attempt at replicating the 'Solar System' formation which was originally found at Longwood Warren in 1995 (uk95bi).
The formation was made for a forthcoming film on the crop circle subject, and key elements of the formation were destroyed after a day. However, the remaining formation has created a number of discussions as to it's accuracy and purpose. The following comment was received by mathematician Nick Kollerstom, who voices some opinions as to it's accuracy and 'quality'.

In the spirit of free speech, I have added a subsequent email I received from Matthew Williams, in reply to Nick's initial thoughts.

P.V.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What follows are Nick's words:-
We went out yesterday to see MW's new creation.

** At last, Conclusive Proof **

The Great Pretender himself, Matthew Williams, has notified us (as he said he would) of a formation made by his 'team' and it's a replica of the 1995 Solar System. Last week we received the announcement. This formation is entirely different in character from the 'real thing' in a manner that is quite unmistakeable. Why, it contaminates the East Field by its mere presence. As I discussed the original solar system mandala in my talk to the CCCS Conference last month (on Cereal Geometry) I hope I may be permitted to express this opinion.

In particular, this formation showed what the judges at the original crop-circle making conference (Rupert Sheldrake & the Guardian) concluded, that humans didn't seem able to replicate the vortex-flow effect at the centre of the flattened-wheat circles. Astronomically, the original solar system had the eccentric orbit of Mercury skillfully depicted in proportion, whereas these jokers clearly hadn't a clue. To the key question, 'could they make the thin, circular and elliptical paths of standing corn about a foot wide (as represented the planetary orbits) I think the answer has to be, in all fairness, 'no.'

So, although it hurts to see the East Field desecrated in this way, I guess we should be grateful for M.W. & Co. for giving decisive evidence concerning the credibility of HAH, the human agency hypothesis.

Nick Kollerstrom, PhD


What follows is Matthew Williams reply:-
I would like to defend my position on the making of the recreation Longwood Warren formation also known as "The Earth is missing" formation.

I recently read the report sent to the list by Nick Kollerstrom. Whilst it is bordering on trying to be derogatory, Nick has made some points which need to be addressed here. Mainly I address these points because Nick has made some very wide assumptions about why we made the formation and who it was intended for. In time honoured tradition, of most crop circle researchers, Nick didn't bother to confer with me before sending out a report which contains statements about me, which are based on his own beliefs and opinions and not on facts.


My replies to the above now follow in order:

Thanks for the great pretender comments. I find this a little childish though. I pretend nothing. I am a circlemaker - fact. Who knows, I've probably made more circles than you've probably been in. Some weren't even found!

Nick says that our formation is very different from the original. Well I never said it was meant to be anything like the original to any single crop circle researcher. I certainly didn't say it was to be a test of our skills to prove anything to crop circle researchers. I also never made any allusions to my representation being like the original formation at all. So why is Nick treating this formation as a yard stick of what I can do? Why did researchers assume that this was a demo for them. It wasn't. It was for a movie, not for crop circle researchers!

To set the record straight, I did not have accurate photographs or diagrams to work from. The photos I had of the original Longwood Warren formation were obtained from the net. They were low resolution grainy photos and they were taken at oblique angles. I managed to roughly correct the slant/perspective angles using PhotoShop to give me a rough idea of what the circle looked like. Still the lack of detail on the photo I was using meant I could not tell how big or small many of the circles were. Some of the circles were square pixels on my screen. Impossible to work with accurately.

I used these low resolution photos to trace from and my tracing was on Autocad, using the photos as a backdrop. Right from the very start I had decided this was an approximation, and would not emulate the real thing, because I had no accurate real model to work from. I even guessed the size of ours should be 300ft - and had no real idea of how big the original one was. So theres a major discrepancy for a start.

Next I was working with one circlemaker who was experienced and three others who had never made a crop circle before. With this in mind there was bound to be an error factor creeping in. It meant the circles around the edge we created were not the same size as I had planned on paper. However I knew this didn't matter. After all this wasn't me demonstrating to researchers just how well I could do, this was me making a crop circle for a movie that had to look similar to the original. From the air I knew that this would look pretty much as they wanted.

No effort was made, in any form to make pretty lay patterns with the corn as we went. This formation was to be made as a known man made formation, and with inexperienced circlemakers on board I didn't have the time to mess around with fancy lay. I was fully occupied (as always) with making sure people knew what they were doing and which bits they were flattening - to avoid mistakes. Thankfully there were no actual flattening errors, the whole formation was done without correction of errors or work-arounds. As I said, this was not a ground photography circle - it was only ever meant to be seen from the air. No layered lay, basket weaves, stepped pyramid lay nor 3d lay. Just quickly flattened crop.

The final design looked fine from the hills and was apparently just what the film crew needed from the air. They were very happy with it. So was I, for what it was meant to be.

I should note that the movie which is being made is going to promote crop circles as being real and paranormal and the human hypothesis isn't part of the movie - so I am told. So there you go, basically I made the formation to help out the film crew with their promotion of something good for the whole of the crop circles world. They needed that design because it was in the script. The crop circle was only a representation of the original - not a direct perfect copy... and all you can do is pick holes, unfairly, in what I was trying to do.

The East Field wasn't desecrated at all... Tim was paid.. the movie will promote crop circles in the way you'll probably be in favour of... so where is the harm in it. You sound like you own the East Field or have some strong belief that it should not be used in this way. Why? Its a field - like many others. What is the difference. I've known many **man made** circles appear in the East Field before and people have gone into orbit over them. However because mine was known man made - you follow the sheep and say words to the effect of "thats crap". How predictable.

Also, I didn't get paid. So, please rethink your points of view and check your facts before writing such stuff on newsgroups, because it wastes my time having to put these things right. After all you claim to be a Phd, so you should know at least something about checking your sources.

Anyhow... that aside - when I do come to make a formation which is meant to be an absolute perfect replica of one which has already appeared, I'll be sure to let you know. Or next time, please feel free to ask.

The pressure that I would be under to get it 100% right would be too great for me to want to attempt this anyhow, because if I made one mistake... well you know the answer to that one. Also even if it was 100% accurate, researchers would say it was utter crap and nothing like the original. So I could never win.

I have always said, to those who have come to my lectures, that I am NOT the best circlemaker out there. There are others who can far exceed the technical and complexity of crop circle execution, of myself. However where I have chosen to differ from those, who are experts at technical correctness, is to not focus myself on total accuracy but aesthetics and overall pictorial form. I believe circles should be an expression of feeling and more abstract because of that. Hard line, geometry is not totally my thing. I am into more free flowing and even feminine design ideas. Anyhow I digress. Still, I've done many geometric circles, saying that, because they are sometimes what I feel like doing.

So I will end by saying, please don't look upon the Longwood Warren replica as meaning too much. I wouldn't give researchers the opportunity to discredit my work in this way. I will post formation designs to the Total Human Solutions website before hand as proof of authorship and then come out with the revelation that I created a particular circle AFTER researchers have credited it as "non-man-made". This is the only way to stop dirty tricks from researchers.

Matthew Williams

[jamesc]

I found thisquite interesting with regard to 'investigators' :

On 3/4th August 2001 Circlemaker Matthew Williams and his 'team' made an attempt at replicating the 'Solar System' formation which was originally found at Longwood Warren in 1995 (uk95bi).
The formation was made for a forthcoming film on the crop circle subject, and key elements of the formation were destroyed after a day. However, the remaining formation has created a number of discussions as to it's accuracy and purpose. The following comment was received by mathematician Nick Kollerstom, who voices some opinions as to it's accuracy and 'quality'.

In the spirit of free speech, I have added a subsequent email I received from Matthew Williams, in reply to Nick's initial thoughts.

P.V.



In particular, this formation showed what the judges at the original crop-circle making conference (Rupert Sheldrake & the Guardian) concluded, that humans didn't seem able to replicate the vortex-flow effect at the centre of the flattened-wheat circles. Astronomically, the original solar system had the eccentric orbit of Mercury skillfully depicted in proportion, whereas these jokers clearly hadn't a clue. To the key question, 'could they make the thin, circular and elliptical paths of standing corn about a foot wide (as represented the planetary orbits) I think the answer has to be, in all fairness, 'no.':cool:



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What follows are Nick's words:-
We went out yesterday to see MW's new creation.

** At last, Conclusive Proof **

The Great Pretender himself, Matthew Williams, has notified us (as he said he would) of a formation made by his 'team' and it's a replica of the 1995 Solar System. Last week we received the announcement. This formation is entirely different in character from the 'real thing' in a manner that is quite unmistakeable. Why, it contaminates the East Field by its mere presence. As I discussed the original solar system mandala in my talk to the CCCS Conference last month (on Cereal Geometry) I hope I may be permitted to express this opinion.

In particular, this formation showed what the judges at the original crop-circle making conference (Rupert Sheldrake & the Guardian) concluded, that humans didn't seem able to replicate the vortex-flow effect at the centre of the flattened-wheat circles. Astronomically, the original solar system had the eccentric orbit of Mercury skillfully depicted in proportion, whereas these jokers clearly hadn't a clue. To the key question, 'could they make the thin, circular and elliptical paths of standing corn about a foot wide (as represented the planetary orbits) I think the answer has to be, in all fairness, 'no.'

So, although it hurts to see the East Field desecrated in this way, I guess we should be grateful for M.W. & Co. for giving decisive evidence concerning the credibility of HAH, the human agency hypothesis.

Nick Kollerstrom, PhD


What follows is Matthew Williams reply:-
I would like to defend my position on the making of the recreation Longwood Warren formation also known as "The Earth is missing" formation.

I recently read the report sent to the list by Nick Kollerstrom. Whilst it is bordering on trying to be derogatory, Nick has made some points which need to be addressed here. Mainly I address these points because Nick has made some very wide assumptions about why we made the formation and who it was intended for. In time honoured tradition, of most crop circle researchers, Nick didn't bother to confer with me before sending out a report which contains statements about me, which are based on his own beliefs and opinions and not on facts.


My replies to the above now follow in order:

Thanks for the great pretender comments. I find this a little childish though. I pretend nothing. I am a circlemaker - fact. Who knows, I've probably made more circles than you've probably been in. Some weren't even found!

Nick says that our formation is very different from the original. Well I never said it was meant to be anything like the original to any single crop circle researcher. I certainly didn't say it was to be a test of our skills to prove anything to crop circle researchers. I also never made any allusions to my representation being like the original formation at all. So why is Nick treating this formation as a yard stick of what I can do? Why did researchers assume that this was a demo for them. It wasn't. It was for a movie, not for crop circle researchers!

To set the record straight, I did not have accurate photographs or diagrams to work from. The photos I had of the original Longwood Warren formation were obtained from the net. They were low resolution grainy photos and they were taken at oblique angles. I managed to roughly correct the slant/perspective angles using PhotoShop to give me a rough idea of what the circle looked like. Still the lack of detail on the photo I was using meant I could not tell how big or small many of the circles were. Some of the circles were square pixels on my screen. Impossible to work with accurately.

I used these low resolution photos to trace from and my tracing was on Autocad, using the photos as a backdrop. Right from the very start I had decided this was an approximation, and would not emulate the real thing, because I had no accurate real model to work from. I even guessed the size of ours should be 300ft - and had no real idea of how big the original one was. So theres a major discrepancy for a start.

Next I was working with one circlemaker who was experienced and three others who had never made a crop circle before. With this in mind there was bound to be an error factor creeping in. It meant the circles around the edge we created were not the same size as I had planned on paper. However I knew this didn't matter. After all this wasn't me demonstrating to researchers just how well I could do, this was me making a crop circle for a movie that had to look similar to the original. From the air I knew that this would look pretty much as they wanted.

No effort was made, in any form to make pretty lay patterns with the corn as we went. This formation was to be made as a known man made formation, and with inexperienced circlemakers on board I didn't have the time to mess around with fancy lay. I was fully occupied (as always) with making sure people knew what they were doing and which bits they were flattening - to avoid mistakes. Thankfully there were no actual flattening errors, the whole formation was done without correction of errors or work-arounds. As I said, this was not a ground photography circle - it was only ever meant to be seen from the air. No layered lay, basket weaves, stepped pyramid lay nor 3d lay. Just quickly flattened crop.

The final design looked fine from the hills and was apparently just what the film crew needed from the air. They were very happy with it. So was I, for what it was meant to be.

I should note that the movie which is being made is going to promote crop circles as being real and paranormal and the human hypothesis isn't part of the movie - so I am told. So there you go, basically I made the formation to help out the film crew with their promotion of something good for the whole of the crop circles world. They needed that design because it was in the script. The crop circle was only a representation of the original - not a direct perfect copy... and all you can do is pick holes, unfairly, in what I was trying to do.

The East Field wasn't desecrated at all... Tim was paid.. the movie will promote crop circles in the way you'll probably be in favour of... so where is the harm in it. You sound like you own the East Field or have some strong belief that it should not be used in this way. Why? Its a field - like many others. What is the difference. I've known many **man made** circles appear in the East Field before and people have gone into orbit over them. However because mine was known man made - you follow the sheep and say words to the effect of "thats crap". How predictable.

Also, I didn't get paid. So, please rethink your points of view and check your facts before writing such stuff on newsgroups, because it wastes my time having to put these things right. After all you claim to be a Phd, so you should know at least something about checking your sources.

Anyhow... that aside - when I do come to make a formation which is meant to be an absolute perfect replica of one which has already appeared, I'll be sure to let you know. Or next time, please feel free to ask.

The pressure that I would be under to get it 100% right would be too great for me to want to attempt this anyhow, because if I made one mistake... well you know the answer to that one. Also even if it was 100% accurate, researchers would say it was utter crap and nothing like the original. So I could never win.

I have always said, to those who have come to my lectures, that I am NOT the best circlemaker out there. There are others who can far exceed the technical and complexity of crop circle execution, of myself. However where I have chosen to differ from those, who are experts at technical correctness, is to not focus myself on total accuracy but aesthetics and overall pictorial form. I believe circles should be an expression of feeling and more abstract because of that. Hard line, geometry is not totally my thing. I am into more free flowing and even feminine design ideas. Anyhow I digress. Still, I've done many geometric circles, saying that, because they are sometimes what I feel like doing.

So I will end by saying, please don't look upon the Longwood Warren replica as meaning too much. I wouldn't give researchers the opportunity to discredit my work in this way. I will post formation designs to the Total Human Solutions website before hand as proof of authorship and then come out with the revelation that I created a particular circle AFTER researchers have credited it as "non-man-made". This is the only way to stop dirty tricks from researchers.

Matthew Williams

This bit i find very interesting.

"In particular, this formation showed what the judges at the original crop-circle making conference (Rupert Sheldrake & the Guardian) concluded, that humans didn't seem able to replicate the vortex-flow effect at the centre of the flattened-wheat circles. Astronomically, the original solar system had the eccentric orbit of Mercury skillfully depicted in proportion, whereas these jokers clearly hadn't a clue. To the key question, 'could they make the thin, circular and elliptical paths of standing corn about a foot wide (as represented the planetary orbits) I think the answer has to be, in all fairness, 'no".':cool:

So they could not produce anything like the original formation and could not",make the thin, circular and elliptical paths of standing corn about a foot wide (as represented the planetary orbits)" So why did this formation maker choose this formation??

[shipoffools]

No effort was made, in any form to make pretty lay patterns with the corn as we went. This formation was to be made as a known man made formation, and with inexperienced circlemakers on board I didn't have the time to mess around with fancy lay.

It does seem that some folk will only ever be able to use circular thinking. If it fits in with what they believe it strengthens their belief, if it clashes - it is disregarded, and hence the process rolls on.

[elton]

No effort was made, in any form to make pretty lay patterns with the corn as we went. This formation was to be made as a known man made formation, and with inexperienced circlemakers on board I didn't have the time to mess around with fancy lay.

It does seem that some folk will only ever be able to use circular thinking. If it fits in with what they believe it strengthens their belief, if it clashes - it is disregarded, and hence the process rolls on.

Of course. This is an Icke forum remember!

[jamesc]

No effort was made, in any form to make pretty lay patterns with the corn as we went. This formation was to be made as a known man made formation, and with inexperienced circlemakers on board I didn't have the time to mess around with fancy lay.

It does seem that some folk will only ever be able to use circular thinking. If it fits in with what they believe it strengthens their belief, if it clashes - it is disregarded, and hence the process rolls on.

My question was WHY did he choose this formation and WHY did he want to produce a KNOWN man made formation, what was his purpose in doing this.Just seem to think that this dude is trying to sow the seeds in peoples minds that ALL complicated formations CAN be reproduced by MAN. Circular thinking is for the sheeple i think , i have disregarded nothing and i am not trying to dispute his claims that he did not have the time or his intention was NOT to copy a complicated formation.Just curious as to why he would want to knowingly create a man made formation, for what purpose.:confused::rolleyes:

[shipoffools]

My question was WHY did he choose this formation and WHY did he want to produce a KNOWN man made formation, what was his purpose in doing this.Just seem to think that this dude is trying to sow the seeds in peoples minds that ALL complicated formations CAN be reproduced by MAN. Circular thinking is for the sheeple i think , i have disregarded nothing and i am not trying to dispute his claims that he did not have the time or his intention was NOT to copy a complicated formation.Just curious as to why he would want to knowingly create a man made formation, for what purpose.:confused::rolleyes:

Listen to yourself.

[jamesc]

Listen to yourself.

Answer this question , DO YOU BELIEVE THAT ALL FORMATIONS ARE MAN MADE?CAN THIS DUDE CLAIMING THIS EXPLAIN CROP AND SOIL ANOMALIES IN CERTAIN FORMATIONS, CAN YOU.:cool:iDO IN FACT LISTEN TOO MYSELF AND MY INTUITION IS TELLING ME THERE IS MUCH MORE TO THESE FORMATIONS THAN THIS DUDE IS CLAIMING.;)

Also i think i asked a pretty valid question.:cool:

[shipoffools]

Answer this question , DO YOU BELIEVE THAT ALL FORMATIONS ARE MAN MADE?CAN THIS DUDE CLAIMING THIS EXPLAIN CROP AND SOIL ANOMALIES IN CERTAIN FORMATIONS, CAN YOU.:cool:iDO IN FACT LISTEN TOO MYSELF AND MY INTUITION IS TELLING ME THERE IS MUCH MORE TO THESE FORMATIONS THAN THIS DUDE IS CLAIMING.;)

Also i think i asked a pretty valid question.:cool:

Take a deep breath - step back - and listen to yourself.

Now, who are you trying to convince? Everyone? or yourself?

[elton]

Answer this question , DO YOU BELIEVE THAT ALL FORMATIONS ARE MAN MADE?CAN THIS DUDE CLAIMING THIS EXPLAIN CROP AND SOIL ANOMALIES IN CERTAIN FORMATIONS, CAN YOU.:cool:iDO IN FACT LISTEN TOO MYSELF AND MY INTUITION IS TELLING ME THERE IS MUCH MORE TO THESE FORMATIONS THAN THIS DUDE IS CLAIMING.;)

Also i think i asked a pretty valid question.:cool:

I'm with you on this one. Anyone who thinks they are man-made must be crazy. Its aliens and thats that.

But I do disagree with your belief that they are benevolent. I think thats too trusting an assumption. I think you should consider there may be evil intent behind the circles so we should be ready to fight when contact comes.

[shipoffools]

I'm with you on this one. Anyone who thinks they are man-made must be crazy. Its aliens and thats that.

But I do disagree with your belief that they are benevolent. I think thats too trusting an assumption. I think you should consider there may be evil intent behind the circles so we should be ready to fight when contact comes.

Roll up them sleeves...

[jamesc]

Take a deep breath - step back - and listen to yourself.

Now, who are you trying to convince? Everyone? or yourself?

I will answer your question when you have answered mine if you do not mind that is.Who are you trying to convince in your avoidance of answering my questions with questions that merely side track my reasons for a answer to my original questions.;):cool:

[shipoffools]

Deep breath buddy...

[jamesc]

I'm with you on this one. Anyone who thinks they are man-made must be crazy. Its aliens and thats that.

But I do disagree with your belief that they are benevolent. I think thats too trusting an assumption. I think you should consider there may be evil intent behind the circles so we should be ready to fight when contact comes.


Yes i get your point my freind and it has crossed my mind on the possibility of skulduggery from some intelligences in some of these formations .I do keep that possibility open. On a lighter note hope it does not turn out like the movie below, fiction i know but i use this as a metaphor only.








http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/08/The_Signs_movie.jpg
:eek::eek:;)

[elton]

I will answer your question when you have answered mine if you do not mind that is.Who are you trying to convince in your avoidance of answering my questions with questions that merely side track my reasons for a answer to my original questions.;):cool:

You are quite right not to answer his question unless the question is a question which is of general intrerest to others.


But you are too trusting. The aliens may be evil and they could be using you to channel. Don't be so trusting.

[presence]

You are quite right not to answer his question unless the question is a question which is of general intrerest to others.


But you are too trusting. The aliens may be evil and they could be using you to channel. Don't be so trusting.
The concepts, right/wrong, evil/good, 'alien' all reflect our current state of consciousness.

Crop circles originate from a higher intelligence inviting us to transcend such limiting concepts. Adopt this as a working hypothesis and you will see it generating very worthwhile results. A little trust goes a long way.

[steveio64]

Hi all, i'm new to this forum and haven't had time to read through this thread.. too busy on all the other threads. Don't know whats been said in many other posts but.. just brainstorming here.. what if crop circles are man made? with all the technology out there, including all the technology we're not told about.. what if there are (officialdom) aircraft out there with technology that can excert force on matter to create these amazing shapes?.. I only came to this conclusion because look at the symbolysm in the circles.. this is man made.. definitly.. there is no way these circles can be man made in the middle of the night by a few blokes.. maybe under controlled conditions in daylight over a few days.. what do you think?

[soothseeker]

Hi all, i'm new to this forum and haven't had time to read through this thread.. too busy on all the other threads. Don't know whats been said in many other posts but.. just brainstorming here.. what if crop circles are man made? with all the technology out there, including all the technology we're not told about.. what if there are (officialdom) aircraft out there with technology that can excert force on matter to create these amazing shapes?.. I only came to this conclusion because look at the symbolysm in the circles.. this is man made.. definitly.. there is no way these circles can be man made in the middle of the night by a few blokes.. maybe under controlled conditions in daylight over a few days.. what do you think?

A lot of the symbols in cropcircles are ancient angelic symbols given to man by angels in our ancient past.

Now what do you find easier to swallow. Angels visited the earth many years ago, or alien visitors came here and were mistaken for angels?

Just because some of the symbolism dates from early history does not rule out the possibility of ET involvement (imo).

However, I do not doubt for a moment that some cropcircles are man made and more specifically made by secretive military organisations conducting black ops in an attempt to deceive the researchers.

[shipoffools]

Hi all, i'm new to this forum and haven't had time to read through this thread.. too busy on all the other threads. Don't know whats been said in many other posts but.. just brainstorming here.. what if crop circles are man made? with all the technology out there, including all the technology we're not told about.. what if there are (officialdom) aircraft out there with technology that can excert force on matter to create these amazing shapes?.. I only came to this conclusion because look at the symbolysm in the circles.. this is man made.. definitly.. there is no way these circles can be man made in the middle of the night by a few blokes.. maybe under controlled conditions in daylight over a few days.. what do you think?

Hello, I don`t blame you for not looking back over the posts, it really is not worth it. If you counted up all the different theories that people on here are 100% convinced about. (and lets face it-they can`t all be right) it makes you want to laugh.

(see if this gets a rant);)

Do you know that not too long ago religious types would argue to the point of coming to blows about the precise size of angels wings...

If you get my point.

[jamesc]

Hello, I don`t blame you for not looking back over the posts, it really is not worth it. If you counted up all the different theories that people on here are 100% convinced about. (and lets face it-they can`t all be right) it makes you want to laugh.

(see if this gets a rant);)

Do you know that not too long ago religious types would argue to the point of coming to blows about the precise size of angels wings...

If you get my point.

Not like you to ANSWER A QUESTION .:eek: Now could you now possibly answer the questions i put to you previously.Will you provide the facts and supportive evidence that these views on here of a unknown/alien possible origin of some of these formations are not worth it and laughable.:rolleyes:

[who elsie]

Hi all, i'm new to this forum and haven't had time to read through this thread.. too busy on all the other threads. Don't know whats been said in many other posts but.. just brainstorming here.. what if crop circles are man made? with all the technology out there, including all the technology we're not told about.. what if there are (officialdom) aircraft out there with technology that can excert force on matter to create these amazing shapes?.. I only came to this conclusion because look at the symbolysm in the circles.. this is man made.. definitly.. there is no way these circles can be man made in the middle of the night by a few blokes.. maybe under controlled conditions in daylight over a few days.. what do you think?

I'll try to summarise it for you.

Basically the crop cicle mystery is just that - a mystery. That is why you find so many different theories on the origins. Some believe that they are all made by a non-human intelligence, which is plausible, but not provable, others believe that they are made by secret military technology, using a sort of microwave laser technology. This is also plausable in a number of ways, but not provable.

However, there are a minority of people that claim to KNOW how all the crop circles are made. Basically, there are a small number of people that have been known to use string and planks of wood to produce crop cricles. These are usually easily identifiable as small, badly constructed formations with considerable damage done to the crop. But as this has apparantly become a business for many of them - doing company logos & making guest appearances on documentaries and conferences etc - they try to make everyone believe that this is the ONLY explanation for crop circles. Yet the only people claiming to know the true origins of the circles consistently fail to produce any convincing evidence that they had a hand in the larger and more complex formations.

This thread started as a great discussion platform for open-minded people, to explore the origins of the circles, but, unfortunately, a number of these people claiming to know the true origins of the circles have taken it in turns to pollute this forum with their cul-de-sac mentalities. This is why this thread has been going round in circles (pardon the pun!) and unless people avoid being drawn into pointless arguments with them, it will continue to do so.

Peace & love!

[shipoffools]

I'll try to summarise it for you.

Basically the crop cicle mystery is just that - a mystery. That is why you find so many different theories on the origins. Some believe that they are all made by a non-human intelligence, which is plausible, but not provable, others believe that they are made by secret military technology, using a sort of microwave laser technology. This is also plausable in a number of ways, but not provable.

However, there are a minority of people that claim to KNOW how all the crop circles are made. Basically, there are a small number of people that have been known to use string and planks of wood to produce crop cricles. These are usually easily identifiable as small, badly constructed formations with considerable damage done to the crop. But as this has apparantly become a business for many of them - doing company logos & making guest appearances on documentaries and conferences etc - they try to make everyone believe that this is the ONLY explanation for crop circles. Yet the only people claiming to know the true origins of the circles consistently fail to produce any convincing evidence that they had a hand in the larger and more complex formations.

This thread started as a great discussion platform for open-minded people, to explore the origins of the circles, but, unfortunately, a number of these people claiming to know the true origins of the circles have taken it in turns to pollute this forum with their cul-de-sac mentalities. This is why this thread has been going round in circles (pardon the pun!) and unless people avoid being drawn into pointless arguments with them, it will continue to do so.

Peace & love!

This being one....

[shipoffools]

Not like you to ANSWER A QUESTION .:eek: Now could you now possibly answer the questions i put to you previously.Will you provide the facts and supportive evidence that these views on here of a unknown/alien possible origin of some of these formations are not worth it and laughable.:rolleyes:

This being another one.....

[jamesc]

This being another one.....

Your lack of response to my questions is evident that the nature of my questions to you are a threat to your views. You are only showing complete disregard for a fair debate and only respond to questions that suit your rather blinkered approach to this subject.

Have a look at this video and particular listen to the physicist.

One of the more interesting videos concerning crop circles may be seen in this documentary from the U.K.. The documentary showcases an extraordinary video, filmed by John Wheyleigh at Oliver's Castle in August of 1996. The video appears to show two balls of light creating a crop circle.

The producers also interviewed physicist Dr. Eltjo Haselhoff of the Netherlands. Dr. Haselhoff offers scientific proof that at least some crop circles are indeed formed by balls of light. His research and evidence was even accepted after peer review for the internationally recognized scientific journal, Physiologia Plantarum.

On a related note, be sure to see this article: Witness: Illuminated Object Created Crop Circle http://goldenagetoday.com/departments/paranormal/78-lifting-of-the-veil-crop-circles/458-witness-illuminated-object-created-crop-circle




YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

[shipoffools]

Your lack of response to my questions is evident that the nature of my questions to you are a threat to your views. You are only showing complete disregard for a fair debate and only respond to questions that suit your rather blinkered approach to this subject.

Have a look at this video and particular listen to the physicist.

One of the more interesting videos concerning crop circles may be seen in this documentary from the U.K.. The documentary showcases an extraordinary video, filmed by John Wheyleigh at Oliver's Castle in August of 1996. The video appears to show two balls of light creating a crop circle.

The producers also interviewed physicist Dr. Eltjo Haselhoff of the Netherlands. Dr. Haselhoff offers scientific proof that at least some crop circles are indeed formed by balls of light. His research and evidence was even accepted after peer review for the internationally recognized scientific journal, Physiologia Plantarum.

On a related note, be sure to see this article: Witness: Illuminated Object Created Crop Circle http://goldenagetoday.com/departments/paranormal/78-lifting-of-the-veil-crop-circles/458-witness-illuminated-object-created-crop-circle




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MLvq73TX94&feature=related

Those 'balls of light' look like birds flying around to me - still...

It is crap quality video poorly made and for a purpose.

[myriadsmallcreature]

Those 'balls of light' look like birds flying around to me - still...

It is crap quality video poorly made and for a purpose.

This being yet another one.

[shipoffools]

This being yet another one.

Nice one!:D

[steveio64]

Hi all, I can see that there are polarised opinions on this subject with many conclusions to be drawn. I'm a total novice on the subject and having just brushed the surface thought I'd offer my 2p's worth, but I can't wait to delve into these threads and look at more photos of this extraordinary phenomena (I'm more interested in 9/11 truth, but it's probably interconnected) Does anyone know if there has been any official investigation into crop circles? I'd be interested to know

[elton]

Hi all, I can see that there are polarised opinions on this subject with many conclusions to be drawn. I'm a total novice on the subject and having just brushed the surface thought I'd offer my 2p's worth, but I can't wait to delve into these threads and look at more photos of this extraordinary phenomena (I'm more interested in 9/11 truth, but it's probably interconnected) Does anyone know if there has been any official investigation into crop circles? I'd be interested to know

Its aliens. Anyone who thinks they are man-made is bonkers. They are using some people on this forum as channelers and I think they are evil.

[shipoffools]

Black shadowy figures and light

[jamesc]

Hi all, I can see that there are polarised opinions on this subject with many conclusions to be drawn. I'm a total novice on the subject and having just brushed the surface thought I'd offer my 2p's worth, but I can't wait to delve into these threads and look at more photos of this extraordinary phenomena (I'm more interested in 9/11 truth, but it's probably interconnected) Does anyone know if there has been any official investigation into crop circles? I'd be interested to know

Hi mate and welcome to this thread. On a serious note :Dthere is a wealth of information on these formations its best to stick to the findings from serious organisations like this one http://www.colinandrews.net/index.html This man has years of insight and experience and was at the forefront of this investigation from day one in the 90s when these formations were beginning to appear .He has now got to know Nick Pope the ex MOD offical who was responsible for collecting and going over all UFO reports from the public and military sources. Have fun.:)

[presence]

Hi mate and welcome to this thread. On a serious note :Dthere is a wealth of information on these formations its best to stick to the findings from serious organisations like this one http://www.colinandrews.net/index.html This man has years of insight and experience and was at the forefront of this investigation from day one in the 90s when these formations were beginning to appear .He has now got to know Nick Pope the ex MOD offical who was responsible for collecting and going over all UFO reports from the public and military sources. Have fun.:)
Did you read the MOD report on UFO's? It doesn't say - even in many words - much at all. Did Nick Pope write it? The author's name's censored. I read somewhere that Nick Pope was only ever a very minor official. I also met in England this year an alien abductee who told me that Nick is a personal friend of his and that 'Nick knows nothing about UFOs'.

Wouldn't it be nice to have reliable evidence from reliable sources? Meanwhile we all go around in circles. Very punny.

[camreeno]

The biggest thing I don't buy about the "hoaxers did them" theory is how the vast majority of them take the form of complex geometric shapes, often involving ancient symbolism and molecular structures. You think a hoaxer would just pick something out of that inventory and just out of tradition make a crop circle about it every time? It makes no sense.

If all crop circles were hoaxed then clearly far more of them would take the form of words, and everyday objects like a beer can, a car, and....you get the idea.

[jamesc]

Did you read the MOD report on UFO's? It doesn't say - even in many words - much at all. Did Nick Pope write it? The author's name's censored. I read somewhere that Nick Pope was only ever a very minor official. I also met in England this year an alien abductee who told me that Nick is a personal friend of his and that 'Nick knows nothing about UFOs'.

Wouldn't it be nice to have reliable evidence from reliable sources? Meanwhile we all go around in circles. Very punny.

Well minor MOD official or not the fact that he was privy to information on these classified reports is enough to warrant his books and information on these UFO reports.Much more than me or you he has had access to these files and his books like OPEN SKIES CLOSED MINDS and his talks around the world reflect this stance he has. I have no reason to dismiss Nick Pope as he has in my view always tried to come forward with what he was privy too.Of course the really juciy bits from these files xan or are blacked out and they will use the national security acts as a safety net to justify these blacked out reports.Yes i have viewed these filies and they still reveal possible unexplained objects in my eyes,Their very nature that these have been filed and taken seriously by the MOD suggests they were of a concern to them.

[presence]

Well minor MOD official or not the fact that he was privy to information on these classified reports is enough to warrant his books and information on these UFO reports.Much more than me or you he has had access to these files and his books like OPEN SKIES CLOSED MINDS and his talks around the world reflect this stance he has. I have no reason to dismiss Nick Pope as he has in my view always tried to come forward with what he was privy too.Of course the really juciy bits from these files xan or are blacked out and they will use the national security acts as a safety net to justify these blacked out reports.Yes i have viewed these filies and they still reveal possible unexplained objects in my eyes,Their very nature that these have been filed and taken seriously by the MOD suggests they were of a concern to them.
Personally, I do believe that we have ET visitors. But to get the kind of evidence a court would demand 'beyond reasonable doubt' always proves impossible. I find that a little frustrating. Eye witness accounts, for example, of anything at all, are notoriously unreliable. People tend to see what they want or expect to see. People also lie and deceive others and manipulate others often merely for the fun of doing so. Absolutely clear highly intelligent minds fully awake and totally without ego are virtually non-existent in practically all areas of human activity. So, what chance do we have of finding any such in the areas of political, military and government circles? None whatsoever in my opinion.

[jamesc]

Personally, I do believe that we have ET visitors. But to get the kind of evidence a court would demand 'beyond reasonable doubt' always proves impossible. I find that a little frustrating. Eye witness accounts, for example, of anything at all, are notoriously unreliable. People tend to see what they want or expect to see. People also lie and deceive others and manipulate others often merely for the fun of doing so. Absolutely clear highly intelligent minds fully awake and totally without ego are virtually non-existent in practically all areas of human activity. So, what chance do we have of finding any such in the areas of political, military and government circles? None whatsoever in my opinion.




Good points my friend and the court evidence is important but have a look at these following findings.


http://www.bltresearch.com/images/plantab/NodeLengthNew.jpg




PLANT ABNORMALITIES

The physical changes (listed below) documented in crop circle plants by Michigan biophysicist W.C. Levengood have been determined by evaluating hundreds of sample plants -- both downed and standing -- taken from inside the overall perimeter of each formation against hundreds of control plants taken at varying distances outside each formation, in several directions. More than 250 individual crop formations from multiple countries, over a 10-year period were examined in-depth. Although many of the formations studied were relatively "simple" in overall design and/or relatively "small" in overall size (primarily because of BLT's financial and/or personnel limitations, particularly in Europe), many larger and more "complex" formations -- those whose overall design included intricate geometric shapes with multiple design elements of varying sizes -- are represented here.

Many of the formations occurred in European countries and, in those cases, the plants were dried-down in open air for 4-6 weeks prior to shipping to the U.S. Some of the U.S. and Canadian formations were shipped while still green. The physical changes found in these crop circle plants, outlined below, have all been determined to be statistically significant at the 95% level of confidence:

1.

On the microscopic level, abnormal enlargement of cell wall pits in bract tissue (a thin membrane which surrounds the seed- head and through which nutrients pass to the developing seed) were found. This examination utilizes the optical microscope and is quite time-consuming and, although useful in the early, exploratory stages of the research, was replaced when equally reliable criteria were subsequently discovered.

2a.

Enlarged (both laterally and longitudinally) plant stem nodes - the fibrous "knucle-like" protuberances found spaced along the plant stem beneath the seed-head, technically called "pulvini." Although these nodes are sometimes enlarged both laterally (they are "fatter") and longitudinally (they are "stretched"), extensive laboratory work has determined that it is the node elongation (the stretching) that is a permanent effect caused by the formation energies - and so this is the parameter now used.




2b.

In some crop formations the energy system involved is intense enough to cause bending of this apical (top) node (although pronounced node bending is much more commonly found at the lower nodes on the plant stem). In a few cases we have found severe apical node bending in conjunction with marked stretching of the node. As the example, below, illustrates the node elongation in such cases is clearly in addition to that caused by the bending of the node tissues.


Sample plants with apical node elongation and extreme bending, in wheat from a Maryland, USA crop formation.



http://www.bltresearch.com/images/plantab/s-1sm.jpg




Apical nodes in control plants from the same field, taken a distance away from the crop formation.



Four plants on left (from an Italian crop circle) show apical node elongation & slight bending. Two apical nodes on right are from controls.


3a.

Marked bending of the plant stem nodes which can occur at all of the nodes in some cases, is most often observed in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th nodes down toward the bottom of the stalks. It does occasionally occur in the first, or apical node beneath the seed-head (see above). Usually this bending (if it is determined to be significant after ruling out natural plant recovery processes) is in the range of 45-90 degrees and considerable care must be taken to not confuse this node bending with two well-known plant recovery processes:

(1) phototropism (the plant's natural tendency to reorient itself to sunlight) and;





(2) gravitropism (the plant's natural tendency to reorient itself to the earth's gravitational field).


NODE BENDING, which may (depending on the age of the crop when formation occurred & time elapsed since then) or may not be indicative of the genuine phenomenon.
Depending upon the growth-stage of the plant at the time it is downed (whether it is young or old) and the species of crop involved, these natural recovery processes - phototropism and gravitropism - begin to take effect within days. Therefore node bending can only be understood as significant when it is known how old the affected crop was at the time the crop circle occurred and, particularly, how many days have elapsed since then. [Young barley, for instance, begins recovery to the up-right position almost immediately and will show significant node bending within a week; young wheat tends to recover slightly more slowly. And mature crop may not reorient itself at all, depending on the amount of vigor inherent in the plants.] But when crop circles are known to have formed during a specific time period and are found within 24-48 hrs., and significant node bending (40° +) is observed, this is an effect that can be attributed to the causative energy system. In some cases canola (rape-seed) plants have been observed to be bent at a full 180°.


3b.

Bending at the base of the plant stem is a totally separate condition which is thought by many people to indicate that any formation in which it is found is "genuine" (not mechanically flattened). This type of bending is found at the very bottom of the stem, where it comes out of the earth, and is often quite pronounced.





Marked bending at the base of conola/oilseed rape plants -- which are known to break, not bend, when mechanically flattened.
Photos: Janet Ossebaard
Although this particular parameter has not been scientifically evaluated, it is known that mechanical flattening (with planks, boards or human feet) of many plants (particularly canola, above) will snap or break the plant stems, rather than bend them. As the summer progresses and the cereal crops - in which a majority of the crop formations occur - dry down, the plants become less and less elastic, making bending at the stem base in these crops perhaps more significant later on in the season.


4.

http://www.bltresearch.com/images/plantab/ExplusionCavity.jpg

Expulsion cavities (holes blown out at the plant stem nodes), usually found in the 2nd node beneath the seed-head, but in recent years discovered also in the 3rd and 4th nodes all the way down the plant stem. A darkening of the stem node, particularly when expulsion cavities are present, is usually the result of the growth of an opportunistic fungus (Ustilago tritici) which quickly forms on the exudate released from inside the plant stem.

http://www.bltresearch.com/images/plantab/s-3sm.jpg

Typical expulsion cavity found when crop circles occur in young wheat, oats & barley. These holes are not always present in "real" circles and occur usually in the 2nd or 3rd nodes down from the seed-head.


Expulsion cavities in older, mature plants can also look like this example, in mature wheat.
http://www.bltresearch.com/images/plantab/s-4sm.jpg

Expulsion cavities in older, mature barley plants.


5.

Stunted, malformed seeds and germination effects. There are four basic changes to the seeds and germination capability in crop circle plants documented so far. These radically different reproductive effects depend upon the species of crop involved, the growth phase of the plants at the time the crop circle occurs, and the composition and intensity level of the energy system involved (which appears to differ slightly within each event as well as from event to event):

http://www.bltresearch.com/images/plantab/r-1.jpg

(a) If the crop circle occurs prior to anthesis (the flowering of the plant) and the development of the seed, the somatic (non-reproductive) tissue of the plant will continue to develop normally -- but seed development ceases or is impaired. Normally-formed glumes have been found which are totally devoid of seeds.



SEED-HEADS, WHEAT
Crop circle seed-head (right) has no seeds, due to destruction of plant's reproductive capacity. Found only when crop circles occur in very immature plants.


(b) When crop circles occur at a slightly later growth stage, in young crop where the seed is still forming, the developing embryo fails to grow normally. These seeds will be visually stunted (smaller), will weigh less than their controls, and will exhibit reduced or repressed germination. Here, the reproductive capacity of the plant has been compromised.



STUNTED & DEHYDRATED
MAIZE SEEDS (on right).
These occur when embryos are already formed, or partially formed,
when crop circle occurs.



CONTROL MAIZE SEEDLINGS AT 7 DAYS

FORMATION MAIZE SEEDLINGS AT 7 DAYS
Showing reduced seedling growth-rate, which typically occurs if crop circles form in plants which are at an intermediate growth-stage.


(c) When crop circles occur in more mature plants, where the embryo is fully formed or nearly so, the seeds will again be visually stunted and will weigh less than normal, but the effects on reproduction vary. One effect observed has been an alteration in normal growth-habit of the developing seedlings: in species which have a normal variability of growth at particular stages, this variability has been lost -- with the result being that all of the germinating seeds exhibit synchronized growth.


CONTROL SEEDLINGS, 12-DAY WHEAT
Showing normal variation of growth-rate (height)
for this particular species at this stage of development.

FORMATION SEEDLINGS, 12-DAY WHEAT
Showing induced synchronization of growth.


(d)

(d) Finally, when crop circles occur in mature plants with fully formed seeds, these seeds often exhibit a statistically significant massive increase in growth rate and vigor, with growth-rate up to five times the rate of the control seeds. Further, these seedlings can tolerate extreme stress (lack of water and/or light) for considerable periods of time without apparent harm.


INCREASED GROWTH-RATE OF FORMATION SEEDLINGS
(as opposed to controls), in seeds from crop which
was mature when crop circle formed.

The plant aberrations described above are thought to be caused by exposure of the plants to a complex atmospheric plasma energy system which is emitting heat (probably microwaves) in association with unusual electrical pulses and strong magnetic fields. The microwave component heats up the internal moisture in the plant stems (even mature crop nearing harvest contains some moisture), turning it to steam. In younger crop, where the external fibers are more elastic, the steam seeps out at the nodes by stretching these fibers; in older crop, where the external fibers are tougher and less elastic, the build-up of steam explodes out from the nodes, creating the holes subsequently found. The final effects on the individual plants depend upon a number factors, including the complexity and intensity level of the microwave component (which varies in each event and from location to location within any given crop circle), the modifying influence of the electrical pulses also involved, as well as the species, variety and age of the plants involved.



6.

Beer-Lambert Principle. A clear indicator of the electromagnetic nature of the energies which cause node-length change in crop circles is the discovery that, in some formations, node-length change decreases from the center of the circle out to its edges in a very precise manner. In fact, these node-length changes were found to agree with a well-known law in physics -- the Beer-Lambert Principle -- which describes the absorption of EM energy by matter. In these cases the node-length increase was greatest at the center of the circle, decreasing as a function of sampling distance away from the center and toward the perimeter.

Example 1, below, is of a completely flattened circle; examples 2 & 3 each had a standing central tuft.

[Example 1]

http://www.bltresearch.com/images/plantab/beer-lambert1.gif
[Example 2]

http://www.bltresearch.com/images/plantab/beer-lambert2.gif
[Example 3]
http://www.bltresearch.com/images/plantab/beer-lambert3.gif

In another case, involving a simple circle in southern Holland, a bright "pinkish-purple" football-shaped light was seen to hover low over a field. It then elongagated into a disc-shaped light, subsequently discharging an energy (described by the witness as "like the Shuttle") down toward the crop surface, at which time the plants flattened into a circle. This circle was carefully sampled along three diameters and, in the laboratory, it was found that the node-length changes on both sides of each sampled diameter precisely mirrored each other -- but each diameter's node-length changes differed from those found along the other two diameters. Exactly how this effect could have been produced is not understood.

7.

Laboratory Replication of Crop Circle Plant Changes. Apical node (the first node beneath the seed-head) elongation and expulsion cavities (holes blown out at the lower plant-stem nodes) have been induced in normal plants in the laboratory by placing them in a commercial microwave oven for between 20-30 seconds. It is microwave radiation, here, that is heating up the moisture inside the plant stem which--as it turns to steam and expands--either stretches the more elastic fibers at the top of the plant, or blows holes in the tougher nodes farther down the plant stem.

The more positive plant changes--enhanced growth rate, increased yield & increased stress tolerance--observed in the laboratory in seedlings grown from cropcircle plants which were mature when the crop circles occured, have also been replicated in the laboratory. In 1998 W.C. Levengood and John Burke obtained a patent (Patent #5740627) on equipment they developed which delivers unusual electrical pulses to normal seed. Called the MIR process and carrying the registered Trademark "Stressguard," this equipment creates organized electron-ion avalanches which then form organized plasmas, to which seeds are exposed.



Graph showing increased yield consistently produced
by seed treated with MIR "Stressguard" process.

Corn, tomato, carrot and many other seeds will, after exposure to the MIR "Stressguard" process, show increased seedling growth-rate and accelerated maturity, increased yield (25-35%), and a substantial improvement in ability to withstand typical plant "stressors" (lack of water and/or sunlight). Numerous field trials with a wide variety of seed have substantiated these results and a commercial application is being sought.

The ability to replicate in the laboratory many of the changes documented in cropcircle plants is a strong indicator that the energies utilized in the lab are also involved as causative mechanisms in the field. In the field the major question is where are these plasma systems originating, and why?



8.

Non-Geometrically downed crop. An important final note regarding these changes to crop circle plants is the fact that non-geometrically-downed crop -- usually called "lodging" by farmers and attributed to over-fertilization of the field and/or subsequent weather damage -- has sometimes been found to show these same changes (see Non-Geometric Crop Formations). This more randomly-downed, or chaotically-downed crop is often observed in the same fields in which "geometric" crop circles occur, but is also found in fields where no geometric crop circle exists. In some cases it is thought that this chaotically-downed crop is due to weather damage alone. However, testing has revealed that in many instances the same energetic situation involved in the geometric events is also involved in these non-geometrically downed areas. A control study carried out in 1997 did not reveal any of the typical plant anomalies in 100% over-fertilized wheat grown for commercial harvest.

[Laboratory Photos & Graphs: W.C. Levengood]



http://www.bltresearch.com/plantab.php


Would this evidence be accepted in court i wonder could you imagine the uproar and and cries of "circumstantial evidence my Lord completely dismiss able my Lord and on these grounds i call for a not proven verdict and a no confidence in these findings my honour.:D

I think there have been a few attempts to discredit these findings by the BLT team but then that is nothing new.


Listen to Nancy Talbott on Open Minds Radio discussing plant abnormalities found in crop circles:




http://www.bltresearch.com/media/OpenMinds_08-27-09.mp3

[presence]

Hi

Yes, the BLT research impressed me too, until I read this

http://www.scientificexploration.org/journal/jse_19_2_grassi.pdf

of which this is the abstract:

Abstract-Three papers published by W. C. Levengood (1994), W. C.
Levengood and N. P. Talbott (1999) and by E. H. Haselhoff (2001) suggested
the involvement of some kind of electromagnetic radiation during the creation
of crop circles. Here we discuss the methods and conclusions of the three
articles, pointing out the misrepresentation of the experimental protocols, the
misleading application of statistical procedures, the arbitrary discarding of
unwanted results and the weakness of the proposed physical model to the
suggested hypothesis. In particular, we show that Haselhoff s conclusions are
unsubstantiated and do not prove the involvement of an electromagnetic
radiation source in the creation event.

[elton]

Hi

Yes, the BLT research impressed me too, until I read this

http://www.scientificexploration.org/journal/jse_19_2_grassi.pdf

of which this is the abstract:

Abstract-Three papers published by W. C. Levengood (1994), W. C.
Levengood and N. P. Talbott (1999) and by E. H. Haselhoff (2001) suggested
the involvement of some kind of electromagnetic radiation during the creation
of crop circles. Here we discuss the methods and conclusions of the three
articles, pointing out the misrepresentation of the experimental protocols, the
misleading application of statistical procedures, the arbitrary discarding of
unwanted results and the weakness of the proposed physical model to the
suggested hypothesis. In particular, we show that Haselhoff s conclusions are
unsubstantiated and do not prove the involvement of an electromagnetic
radiation source in the creation event.

Dont post stuff like that please.

[jamesc]

Hi

Yes, the BLT research impressed me too, until I read this

http://www.scientificexploration.org/journal/jse_19_2_grassi.pdf

of which this is the abstract:

Abstract-Three papers published by W. C. Levengood (1994), W. C.
Levengood and N. P. Talbott (1999) and by E. H. Haselhoff (2001) suggested
the involvement of some kind of electromagnetic radiation during the creation
of crop circles. Here we discuss the methods and conclusions of the three
articles, pointing out the misrepresentation of the experimental protocols, the
misleading application of statistical procedures, the arbitrary discarding of
unwanted results and the weakness of the proposed physical model to the
suggested hypothesis. In particular, we show that Haselhoff s conclusions are
unsubstantiated and do not prove the involvement of an electromagnetic
radiation source in the creation event.

I have read that and were i am no expert i just think it is a very clever put together debunking attack.The fact that there are stem nodes from formations having been found to have anomalies is important here.The orb lights around formations are to be include on that point too.

[elton]

I have read that and were i am no expert i just think it is a very clever put together debunking attack.The fact that there are stem nodes from formations having been found to have anomalies is important here.The orb lights around formations are to be include on that point too.


I agree. Whatever happened to Levengood and Hasselhof anyway? They were the stars of crop circle node analysis but they both seem to have dissapeared? Have they been eliminated?

[jamesc]

:DHi

Yes, the BLT research impressed me too, until I read this

http://www.scientificexploration.org/journal/jse_19_2_grassi.pdf

of which this is the abstract:

Abstract-Three papers published by W. C. Levengood (1994), W. C.
Levengood and N. P. Talbott (1999) and by E. H. Haselhoff (2001) suggested
the involvement of some kind of electromagnetic radiation during the creation
of crop circles. Here we discuss the methods and conclusions of the three
articles, pointing out the misrepresentation of the experimental protocols, the
misleading application of statistical procedures, the arbitrary discarding of
unwanted results and the weakness of the proposed physical model to the
suggested hypothesis. In particular, we show that Haselhoff s conclusions are
unsubstantiated and do not prove the involvement of an electromagnetic
radiation source in the creation event.





In the down below video the producers of video documentary interviewed physicist Dr. Eltjo Haselhoff of the Netherlands. Dr. Haselhoff offers scientific proof that at least some crop circles are indeed formed by balls of light/UFO'S. His research and evidence was even accepted after peer review for the Internationally recognized scientific journal, Physiologia Plantarum.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_basraNod1Ms/Sd-UyBjzqrI/AAAAAAAAA60/vOSi0PACox8/s320/eltjo1.jpg


He showed that the crop circles he examined had been made by electromagnetic point-sources. An example of an electromagnetic point-source is a light bulb. Dr. Haselhoff made his discovery by examining the anomalies he found in the nodes of the crop circle plants. When he measured the nodes of all the samples he had taken, he found that the nodes in the centre of the circles had elongated tremendously. The nodes of the plants that had grown at the perimeter of the circles, did show elongation, but not quite as much as the ones he had found in the centres. Dr Haselhoff developed a software programme to have his computer measure the nodes once more (thus excluding the possibility of human errors) and had his computer carry out many hundreds of measurements.


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_basraNod1Ms/Sd-U8cUaVHI/AAAAAAAAA68/DGc09JK6LhA/s320/Diagram.JPG

In the first row you see the anomalous node length in the crop circle. In the second row you see where Dr. Haselhoff take his samples.The red bars in the diagrams show normal, natural growth differences that may occur. It is quite clear that the crop circle differences are so extreme (yellow bars), that this cannot be attributed to normal growth difference...

Dr. Haselhoff then compared the distribution of node lengthening (strongest in the crop circle centre, less and less towards the perimeter) with all possible energy distribution patterns known in physics. He discovered a 100% match with the energy distribution of an electromagnetic point-source. This is for instance a light bulb. When you hang a light bulb above the ground, you will also see a (light) distribution that is strongest directly below the bulb (to be compared with the crop circle centre) and which becomes fainter and fainter as you measure towards the edge of the light.



http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_basraNod1Ms/Sd-Tv8FBh_I/AAAAAAAAA6k/DkaXtAh8g9M/s320/Crop+Circle+Diagram.JPG

A 100% match is very rare in science. Therefore the following conclusion could safely be drawn: the examined crop circles had been made by electromagnetic point-sources (balls of light) hanging above the ground at a height of 4.1 meters at the time the crop went down.

Dr. Haselhoff sent his findings to Physiologia Plantarum. His work was 'peer-reviewed' (checked by other scientists), accepted and published in October 2000. With this publication and thus acceptance by the scientific world, one can say that the current state of affairs if as follows: Crop circles are not made by man, but by electromagnetic point-sources of unknown origin.

This fact stands until the opposite is proven scientifically!



Note : We wanted to let you know that the film of the balls of light may not be a hoax(As many debunker claimed).


YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.



There is a lot of disinformation put out by various governments - who will immediately discredit crop circles and videos such as this.

Read this article to get an idea of what we mean. http://www.earthfiles.com/news.php?ID=1435&category=Environment

The fact is the videographer (who came forward and is not anonymous) never said his video was a fake (though fake versions have not shown up on the net afterwards).

It's really amazing how easy and quick it is to discredit footage such as this. All it takes is for one person to say "this was proven to be a hoax" to completely discredit the footage. source;):cool:

http://www.ufo-blogger.com/2009/04/physicist-offers-scientific-proof-that.html

[elton]

:D





In the down below video the producers of video documentary interviewed physicist Dr. Eltjo Haselhoff of the Netherlands. Dr. Haselhoff offers scientific proof that at least some crop circles are indeed formed by balls of light/UFO'S. His research and evidence was even accepted after peer review for the Internationally recognized scientific journal, Physiologia Plantarum.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_basraNod1Ms/Sd-UyBjzqrI/AAAAAAAAA60/vOSi0PACox8/s320/eltjo1.jpg


He showed that the crop circles he examined had been made by electromagnetic point-sources. An example of an electromagnetic point-source is a light bulb. Dr. Haselhoff made his discovery by examining the anomalies he found in the nodes of the crop circle plants. When he measured the nodes of all the samples he had taken, he found that the nodes in the centre of the circles had elongated tremendously. The nodes of the plants that had grown at the perimeter of the circles, did show elongation, but not quite as much as the ones he had found in the centres. Dr Haselhoff developed a software programme to have his computer measure the nodes once more (thus excluding the possibility of human errors) and had his computer carry out many hundreds of measurements.


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_basraNod1Ms/Sd-U8cUaVHI/AAAAAAAAA68/DGc09JK6LhA/s320/Diagram.JPG

In the first row you see the anomalous node length in the crop circle. In the second row you see where Dr. Haselhoff take his samples.The red bars in the diagrams show normal, natural growth differences that may occur. It is quite clear that the crop circle differences are so extreme (yellow bars), that this cannot be attributed to normal growth difference...

Dr. Haselhoff then compared the distribution of node lengthening (strongest in the crop circle centre, less and less towards the perimeter) with all possible energy distribution patterns known in physics. He discovered a 100% match with the energy distribution of an electromagnetic point-source. This is for instance a light bulb. When you hang a light bulb above the ground, you will also see a (light) distribution that is strongest directly below the bulb (to be compared with the crop circle centre) and which becomes fainter and fainter as you measure towards the edge of the light.



http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_basraNod1Ms/Sd-Tv8FBh_I/AAAAAAAAA6k/DkaXtAh8g9M/s320/Crop+Circle+Diagram.JPG

A 100% match is very rare in science. Therefore the following conclusion could safely be drawn: the examined crop circles had been made by electromagnetic point-sources (balls of light) hanging above the ground at a height of 4.1 meters at the time the crop went down.

Dr. Haselhoff sent his findings to Physiologia Plantarum. His work was 'peer-reviewed' (checked by other scientists), accepted and published in October 2000. With this publication and thus acceptance by the scientific world, one can say that the current state of affairs if as follows: Crop circles are not made by man, but by electromagnetic point-sources of unknown origin.

This fact stands until the opposite is proven scientifically!



Note : We wanted to let you know that the film of the balls of light may not be a hoax(As many debunker claimed).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MLvq73TX94



There is a lot of disinformation put out by various governments - who will immediately discredit crop circles and videos such as this.

Read this article to get an idea of what we mean. http://www.earthfiles.com/news.php?ID=1435&category=Environment

The fact is the videographer (who came forward and is not anonymous) never said his video was a fake (though fake versions have not shown up on the net afterwards).

It's really amazing how easy and quick it is to discredit footage such as this. All it takes is for one person to say "this was proven to be a hoax" to completely discredit the footage. source;):cool:

http://www.ufo-blogger.com/2009/04/physicist-offers-scientific-proof-that.html


Something is very sinister here. Hasselhof has his own guitar website nowadays but there is no mention of his research in 2001 on the nodes. I think he has been silenced otherwise why does he not mention his research?

[presence]

:D





In the down below video the producers of video documentary interviewed physicist Dr. Eltjo Haselhoff of the Netherlands. Dr. Haselhoff offers scientific proof that at least some crop circles are indeed formed by balls of light/UFO'S. His research and evidence was even accepted after peer review for the Internationally recognized scientific journal, Physiologia Plantarum.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_basraNod1Ms/Sd-UyBjzqrI/AAAAAAAAA60/vOSi0PACox8/s320/eltjo1.jpg


He showed that the crop circles he examined had been made by electromagnetic point-sources. An example of an electromagnetic point-source is a light bulb. Dr. Haselhoff made his discovery by examining the anomalies he found in the nodes of the crop circle plants. When he measured the nodes of all the samples he had taken, he found that the nodes in the centre of the circles had elongated tremendously. The nodes of the plants that had grown at the perimeter of the circles, did show elongation, but not quite as much as the ones he had found in the centres. Dr Haselhoff developed a software programme to have his computer measure the nodes once more (thus excluding the possibility of human errors) and had his computer carry out many hundreds of measurements.


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_basraNod1Ms/Sd-U8cUaVHI/AAAAAAAAA68/DGc09JK6LhA/s320/Diagram.JPG

In the first row you see the anomalous node length in the crop circle. In the second row you see where Dr. Haselhoff take his samples.The red bars in the diagrams show normal, natural growth differences that may occur. It is quite clear that the crop circle differences are so extreme (yellow bars), that this cannot be attributed to normal growth difference...

Dr. Haselhoff then compared the distribution of node lengthening (strongest in the crop circle centre, less and less towards the perimeter) with all possible energy distribution patterns known in physics. He discovered a 100% match with the energy distribution of an electromagnetic point-source. This is for instance a light bulb. When you hang a light bulb above the ground, you will also see a (light) distribution that is strongest directly below the bulb (to be compared with the crop circle centre) and which becomes fainter and fainter as you measure towards the edge of the light.



http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_basraNod1Ms/Sd-Tv8FBh_I/AAAAAAAAA6k/DkaXtAh8g9M/s320/Crop+Circle+Diagram.JPG

A 100% match is very rare in science. Therefore the following conclusion could safely be drawn: the examined crop circles had been made by electromagnetic point-sources (balls of light) hanging above the ground at a height of 4.1 meters at the time the crop went down.

Dr. Haselhoff sent his findings to Physiologia Plantarum. His work was 'peer-reviewed' (checked by other scientists), accepted and published in October 2000. With this publication and thus acceptance by the scientific world, one can say that the current state of affairs if as follows: Crop circles are not made by man, but by electromagnetic point-sources of unknown origin.

This fact stands until the opposite is proven scientifically!



Note : We wanted to let you know that the film of the balls of light may not be a hoax(As many debunker claimed).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MLvq73TX94



There is a lot of disinformation put out by various governments - who will immediately discredit crop circles and videos such as this.

Read this article to get an idea of what we mean. http://www.earthfiles.com/news.php?ID=1435&category=Environment

The fact is the videographer (who came forward and is not anonymous) never said his video was a fake (though fake versions have not shown up on the net afterwards).

It's really amazing how easy and quick it is to discredit footage such as this. All it takes is for one person to say "this was proven to be a hoax" to completely discredit the footage. source;):cool:

http://www.ufo-blogger.com/2009/04/physicist-offers-scientific-proof-that.html
But the article to which I refered you is also peer-reviewed, and contridicts Haselhoff.

Experts often disagree, particularly in contraversial and leading-edge science. That's understandable and a healthy way of doing science.

[presence]

Another point:

You, Jamesc say, carelessly:

"one can say that the current state of affairs if as follows: Crop circles are not made by man, but by electromagnetic point-sources of unknown origin."

But many people admit to making CCs. Many people have been filmed making them. One person was successfully prosecuted for making one. Other people make them on commission. I and others have examined many CCs and found no evidence whatsoever of any electromagnetic anomolies.

Also, even if some CCs are made through electromagnetic point-sources, Why are you prematurely assuming that it's not human beings doing that?

If you can make such an obviously false statement as above, with all its hidden presumtions, don't you think that scientists get it wrong too? Why asssume that scientists necessarily think clearly all the time. They don't.

[jamesc]

Another point:

You, Jamesc say, carelessly:

"one can say that the current state of affairs if as follows: Crop circles are not made by man, but by electromagnetic point-sources of unknown origin."

But many people admit to making CCs. Many people have been filmed making them. One person was successfully prosecuted for making one. Other people make them on commission. I and others have examined many CCs and found no evidence whatsoever of any electromagnetic anomolies.

Also, even if some CCs are made through electromagnetic point-sources, Why are you prematurely assuming that it's not human beings doing that?

If you can make such an obviously false statement as above, with all its hidden presumtions, don't you think that scientists get it wrong too? Why asssume that scientists necessarily think clearly all the time. They don't.



Are you not forgetting the orbs seen around formations, witnesses who have seen them also.What is false about this physicist Dr. Eltjo Haselhoff.I HAVE SHOWN THAT HIS CONCLUSIONS AND FINDINGS WAS PEER REVIVED AND EXCEPTED.Do you or do you not except the reality of this sentence below.

"His research and evidence was even accepted after peer review for the Internationally recognized scientific journal, Physiologia Plantarum."

Now are you saying that these peers who reviewed his research and evidence are wrong and you are right.:eek::rolleyes:Please show us WHY these peers are wrong. What possible motive would these peers have in passing his research and evidence of as EXCEPTED if they did not think it was??? Can you enlighten us on that point too.:cool:

As i have said through out , it takes only ONE OF THESE FORMATIONS TO BE SHOWN OR CONFIRMED AS COMING FROM A UNKNOWN SOURCE to prove that NOT ALL ARE MAN MADE. The point you raised on why i think it could not be man made sources of heat ect is wrong as i have stated before that is one possibility for some formations but the same point can be asked of in the case for unknown sources or origins for this formation that shows heat sources. Now as the debunkers, ridiculer's and sceptics are always seizing on the formations that are man made to say ,"LOOK ITS MAN MADE SO ALL ARE", :rolleyes: My point here is as well as excepting that not all formations are from unknown sources but some are by the field investigators like Andrews can the same view be applied to man made formations when unknown formations are found??

Why is it not fair to say "LOOK I TOLD YOU, THIS FORMATION HAS BEEN INVESTIGATED BY A physicist Dr. Eltjo Haselhoff and his findings on it and was EXCEPTED BY PEER REVIEWERS AFTER THEY READ physicist Dr. Eltjo Haselhoffs findings and experiments on it.It was then excepted by peers in the Internationally recognized scientific journal, Physiologia Plantarum.":D



"don't you think that scientists get it wrong too? Why asssume that scientists necessarily think clearly all the time. They don't."

Is your above quote to be applied and suggested to the scientists who accept that all formations have a human or natural origin. too.:D Or is it that when scientists get it wrong and are NOT NECESSARILY THINKING CLEARLY ALL THE TIME its only when people like physicist Dr. Eltjo Haselhoff and his findings and evidence and the peers who reviewed and passed it as authentic.

Your suggestion to me that i never doubt scientists or their findings is far from the true my friend.You always have to put into perspective that for a scientific peer review to accept physicist Dr. Eltjo Haselhofs evidence and findings and the nature of this acceptance on this kind of subject matter is always going to be much more open to attacks,debunking and cries of........


"OH MY GOD THESE SCIENTIFIC PEERS MUST NOT BE THINKING CLEARLY OR HAVE MIST SOMETHING HERE .THEY PROBABLY GOT IT WRONG ANYWAY, THEY WOULD NEVER PUT THIS PEER REVIEW IN A INTERNATIONALITY RECOGNIZED SCIENTIFIC JOURNAL LIKE THE PHYSIOLOGIA PLANTARUM WOULD THEY?? RISKING THERE VERY CREDIBILITY ,RESPECT AND NOT TO MENTION THEIR POSITIONS OF RESPONSIBILITIES IN THIS UNIVERSITY???

Would they have not made certain and made sure they where in fact thinking clearly and getting it right by the fact that this was to be seen an known by other scientific minded people and organisations??

WOULD THEY OR WOULD THEY NOT HAVE MADE CERTAIN OF HIS EVIDANCE AND EXPERIMENTS AND FINDINGS BEFORE THEY PASSED HIS PEER REVIEWS OFF AS EXCEPTABLE AND WITHIN THE FRAMES OF EXPECTABLE SCIENTIFIC CRITERIA??? :cool:


Why did you take this quote BELOW and make out that i am implying that ALL formations are not man made :eek::confused:.That was from the article on this formation and implies to this particular formation NOT ALL FORMATIONS.:cool:

"one can say that the current state of affairs if as follows: Crop circles are not made by man, but by electromagnetic point-sources of unknown origin.

[jamesc]

Something is very sinister here. Hasselhof has his own guitar website nowadays but there is no mention of his research in 2001 on the nodes. I think he has been silenced otherwise why does he not mention his research?

Was thinking of e-mailing him on this and asking him the point you made.Is it not surprising that after his evidence and findings were accepted by these scientific peers that he would have attracted the attentions from those who wish to suppress not only this information but information that is backed up by respected scientific peers and is seen to hold and show scientific evidence of unknown origins and debunking the ideas that ALL formations are made by planksters?? I DO THINK HE WAS TOLD TO SHUT THE FUCK UP IN NO CERTAIN TERMS.

[jamesc]

Quick on the draw: In July 1996, a 915 feet spiral of 151 circles appeared in full view of the busy A303 road, opposite England's ancient monument Stonehenge, Wiltshire, within a 45 minute period one Sunday afternoon. A pilot, gamekeeper and security guard confirmed it had not been there before 5.30pm - yet shortly after 6.00pm, the massive formation was being spotted by passing tourists. Much smaller man-made designs have taken several hours to complete. This also disproves the myth that all crop circles appear by night.:D(NOT A PLANKSTER IN SIGHT AND IF THERE WAS THE TIME FRAMES NEEDED TO COMPLETE THIS MASSIVE FORMATION AND IN DAYLIGHT TOO IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR PLANKSTERS).

Longest crop formation: This occurred at Etchilhampton, Wiltshire, in 1996 - a chain of circles and pathways approximately 4100 feet long crossed from one end of a field to another.:eek:

Largest design and most circles in one formation: The record for both these qualities is currently held by the huge motif at Milk Hill, Wiltshire, August 12th 2001 - 409 small circles made up a staggering six-armed design of around 800 feet diameter.:eek:

Largest expanse of laid crop in one design: A seven-petalled mandala which appeared at Alton Barnes, Wiltshire, in 1998 contained an unbroken flattened area covering 6000 square metres.:eek:(NEED A LOT OF PLANKS AND PLANKSTERS WITH THIS ONE)

Most geometrically perfect formation: Most would agree that the formation at Windmill Hill, Wiltshire, in 1996 takes this award - an endless procession of perfect equilateral triangles, from large to small, could be drawn by overlaying geometrical shapes onto a triple-armed spiral of 194 circles:eek: covering around an area of 600 feet diameter. If just one of the main circles or arms had been even slightly misplaced, this geometry would not have worked.:D

Most visited formation: Stonehenge, 1996 (see Quick on the Draw above) - it is estimated around 10,000 people entered this pattern once it was opened to the public by the farmer, partly through being so visible next to such a major landmark.

Most publicised formation: Alton Barnes, 1990 - many global newspapers and TV stations reported the appearance of this, the first of the large pictograms.

Scientific tests: Work by W C Levengood, a respected Michigan-based biophysicist, has shown notable biological changes taking place inside circle-laid stalks, which could be attributable to some kind of microwave energy. No man-made demonstration formation has ever produced these results, yet the majority of the hundreds of crop circles sampled have proved positive in this regard. LevengoodÕs papers have been published in scientific journals and his work has been replicated by other laboratories working with the US-based BLT Research organisation. In 1995, tests on crop formation soil samples were conducted by ADAS, a division of the English Ministry of Agriculture. Although preliminary, they showed distinct anomalies in the nitrogen/nitrate ratios which could not be explained.;) There have been other scientific tests carried out by different bodies over the years which have produced peculiar unexplained qualities.:cool:

Strange effects: There have been many reported effects on people's health, sometimes of cures, sometimes of ailments, which have come on while within crop circles. Animals sometimes behave strangely in crop formations. Electronic and mechanical equipment, videos, cameras and even combine harvesters have also been known to malfunction in very odd ways, far above the average one would expect from chance.;)


http://www.swirlednews.com/crop.asp

[elton]

Was thinking of e-mailing him on this and asking him the point you made.Is it not surprising that after his evidence and findings were accepted by these scientific peers that he would have attracted the attentions from those who wish to suppress not only this information but information that is backed up by respected scientific peers and is seen to hold and show scientific evidence of unknown origins and debunking the ideas that ALL formations are made by planksters?? I DO THINK HE WAS TOLD TO SHUT THE FUCK UP IN NO CERTAIN TERMS.

There is definately something going on here.

Why has he gone quiet on this? I think he has been spooked.

Please post what happens if you email him. This really needs to be cleared up. If scientists are being threatened then this needs to be exposed.

[jamesc]

There is definately something going on here.

Why has he gone quiet on this? I think he has been spooked.

Please post what happens if you email him. This really needs to be cleared up. If scientists are being threatened then this needs to be exposed.

Will do hopefully he will respond and hopefully he understands English seeing as he is not from a English speaking country :eek:

[elton]

Will do hopefully he will respond and hopefully he understands English seeing as he is not from a English speaking country :eek:

Won't be a problem. He speaks in English on his website. And anyway I speak Dutch.

If he has been spooked the question is - by who?

[stockstalker]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3642/3612287355_937fae2711.jpg

Hmm-------- 7 tails (tenticles). 7 strips on the jellyfish body (excluding the bottom band made from the 4 circles). 7 circles on the middle tenticle.

Number 7 (vector logo) in various space projects and agencies logos (this part of the movie below):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTWsoBvMQwo&feature=related

Moon Rising Part 6 - YouTube

Coincidence? I think not!

[jamesc]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3642/3612287355_937fae2711.jpg

Hmm-------- 7 tails (tenticles). 7 strips on the jellyfish body (excluding the bottom band made from the 4 circles). 7 circles on the middle tenticle.

Number 7 (vector logo) in various space projects and agencies logos (this part of the movie below):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTWsoBvMQwo&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTWsoBvMQwo&feature=related

Coincidence? I think not!



Very interesting.What strikes me is the possibility of NASA using this symbolism. To the untrained eye or researcher these symbols mean nothing but there is definite collaboration going on here.Now the question for me is this,is NASA using these symbols that relate to what they really know as facts about the intelligences behind these UFOs.:cool:

[presence]

Are you not forgetting the orbs seen around formations, witnesses who have seen them also.What is false about this physicist Dr. Eltjo Haselhoff.I HAVE SHOWN THAT HIS CONCLUSIONS AND FINDINGS WAS PEER REVIVED AND EXCEPTED.Do you or do you not except the reality of this sentence below.

"His research and evidence was even accepted after peer review for the Internationally recognized scientific journal, Physiologia Plantarum."

Now are you saying that these peers who reviewed his research and evidence are wrong and you are right.:eek::rolleyes:Please show us WHY these peers are wrong. What possible motive would these peers have in passing his research and evidence of as EXCEPTED if they did not think it was??? Can you enlighten us on that point too.:cool:

As i have said through out , it takes only ONE OF THESE FORMATIONS TO BE SHOWN OR CONFIRMED AS COMING FROM A UNKNOWN SOURCE to prove that NOT ALL ARE MAN MADE. The point you raised on why i think it could not be man made sources of heat ect is wrong as i have stated before that is one possibility for some formations but the same point can be asked of in the case for unknown sources or origins for this formation that shows heat sources. Now as the debunkers, ridiculer's and sceptics are always seizing on the formations that are man made to say ,"LOOK ITS MAN MADE SO ALL ARE", :rolleyes: My point here is as well as excepting that not all formations are from unknown sources but some are by the field investigators like Andrews can the same view be applied to man made formations when unknown formations are found??

Why is it not fair to say "LOOK I TOLD YOU, THIS FORMATION HAS BEEN INVESTIGATED BY A physicist Dr. Eltjo Haselhoff and his findings on it and was EXCEPTED BY PEER REVIEWERS AFTER THEY READ physicist Dr. Eltjo Haselhoffs findings and experiments on it.It was then excepted by peers in the Internationally recognized scientific journal, Physiologia Plantarum.":D



"don't you think that scientists get it wrong too? Why asssume that scientists necessarily think clearly all the time. They don't."

Is your above quote to be applied and suggested to the scientists who accept that all formations have a human or natural origin. too.:D Or is it that when scientists get it wrong and are NOT NECESSARILY THINKING CLEARLY ALL THE TIME its only when people like physicist Dr. Eltjo Haselhoff and his findings and evidence and the peers who reviewed and passed it as authentic.

Your suggestion to me that i never doubt scientists or their findings is far from the true my friend.You always have to put into perspective that for a scientific peer review to accept physicist Dr. Eltjo Haselhofs evidence and findings and the nature of this acceptance on this kind of subject matter is always going to be much more open to attacks,debunking and cries of........


"OH MY GOD THESE SCIENTIFIC PEERS MUST NOT BE THINKING CLEARLY OR HAVE MIST SOMETHING HERE .THEY PROBABLY GOT IT WRONG ANYWAY, THEY WOULD NEVER PUT THIS PEER REVIEW IN A INTERNATIONALITY RECOGNIZED SCIENTIFIC JOURNAL LIKE THE PHYSIOLOGIA PLANTARUM WOULD THEY?? RISKING THERE VERY CREDIBILITY ,RESPECT AND NOT TO MENTION THEIR POSITIONS OF RESPONSIBILITIES IN THIS UNIVERSITY???

Would they have not made certain and made sure they where in fact thinking clearly and getting it right by the fact that this was to be seen an known by other scientific minded people and organisations??

WOULD THEY OR WOULD THEY NOT HAVE MADE CERTAIN OF HIS EVIDANCE AND EXPERIMENTS AND FINDINGS BEFORE THEY PASSED HIS PEER REVIEWS OFF AS EXCEPTABLE AND WITHIN THE FRAMES OF EXPECTABLE SCIENTIFIC CRITERIA??? :cool:


Why did you take this quote BELOW and make out that i am implying that ALL formations are not man made :eek::confused:.That was from the article on this formation and implies to this particular formation NOT ALL FORMATIONS.:cool:

"one can say that the current state of affairs if as follows: Crop circles are not made by man, but by electromagnetic point-sources of unknown origin.
Did you read the peer-reviewed scientific journal article to which I refered you?

Probably not.

The statement 'Crop circles are not made by man, but by electromagnetic point-sources of unknown origin' is false.

Many crop circles are indeed made by man. And some people may indeed have the capacity to make crop circles using electomagnetism. And subtle energies beyond the reach of current science and beyond electromagnetism may also be involved in crop circle manufacture.

It is premature to conclude that the crop circle source is non-human. And it is premature to conclude that the energies possibly involved in some crop circle manufacter is electromagnetic only.

More accurate is to say something like: 'Some evidence suggests that some crop circles may involve electromagnetism'

[jamesc]

Did you read the peer-reviewed scientific journal article to which I refered you?

Probably not.

The statement 'Crop circles are not made by man, but by electromagnetic point-sources of unknown origin' is false.

Many crop circles are indeed made by man. And some people may indeed have the capacity to make crop circles using electomagnetism. And subtle energies beyond the reach of current science and beyond electromagnetism may also be involved in crop circle manufacture.

It is premature to conclude that the crop circle source is non-human. And it is premature to conclude that the energies possibly involved in some crop circle manufacter is electromagnetic only.

More accurate is to say something like: 'Some evidence suggests that some crop circles may involve electromagnetism'



Physicist Dr. Eltjo Haselhoff WAS not DEBUNKED by that peer-reviewed scientific journal article to which you referred me to by you? That peer review was attacking the BLT findings not Physicist Dr. Eltjo Haselhoff.Again i ask you WHY was Dr. Eltjo Haselhoffs experiments and conclusions accepted by a peer review and published in a well known and respected scientific journal?? Why would these peers rubber stamp his conclusions and publish them???

It is not as you say premature to suggest that some formations that show signs of what Haselhoff has discovered could be possible unknowns/extraterrestrial in origin .If we take what you mean by "premature" then it can be added to your views that as yet as we do not really know what the origins are then it is entirely plausible to suggest that some formations could be from unknown/extraterrestrial sources/origins.

What about the orbs seen by witnesses and also the formation that appeared in a field next to Stonehenge in broad day light in a 45 mins widow and commentated on by witnesses who said it was NOT i that field before the 45mis window of time it took to form???

It is entirely "premature" of you to suggest that i have not read that peer review you referred me to.In fact i have read it before but felt that this kind of attack or debunking by an official scientific peer review was always inevitable.By that i mean there was no way these findings by the BLT team was ever going to be seen as maybe getting closer to the realities that some formations could or are from unknown.alien sources.Do you really think the powers at be would not put an official stamp of denial on this by a official source??The same official rubber stamping of denial is happening with not only genuine unknown formations but UFOs too and with witnesses or abduction victims.

To presume i was not.I was passing on information from a man who's experiments and findings that were approved by credible scientific peers.Nobody really knows the real origins of these formations that are unexplained and to presume that the possibility of an unknown/extraterrestrial origin is NOT possible is presuming something that cannot be ruled out just now. The symbolism in some formations especially the formation that appeared to show added data to the radio signals sent from the radio telescope with INFORMATION about the human race cannot be ignored lightly.


http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/6700/hampshirexaengland01pu3.jpg


http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/8104/hampshirexb2001npm3.jpg


http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/8104/hampshirexb2001npm3.jpg

Possible response from unknown/alien origins from the data from the the radio signals sent by us in the past.

[elton]

Physicist Dr. Eltjo Haselhoff WAS not DEBUNKED by that peer-reviewed scientific journal article to which you referred me to by you? That peer review was attacking the BLT findings not Physicist Dr. Eltjo Haselhoff.Again i ask you WHY was Dr. Eltjo Haselhoffs experiments and conclusions accepted by a peer review and published in a well known and respected scientific journal?? Why would these peers rubber stamp his conclusions and publish them???

It is not as you say premature to suggest that some formations that show signs of what Haselhoff has discovered could be possible unknowns/extraterrestrial in origin .If we take what you mean by "premature" then it can be added to your views that as yet as we do not really know what the origins are then it is entirely plausible to suggest that some formations could be from unknown/extraterrestrial sources/origins.

What about the orbs seen by witnesses and also the formation that appeared in a field next to Stonehenge in broad day light in a 45 mins widow and commentated on by witnesses who said it was NOT i that field before the 45mis window of time it took to form???

It is entirely "premature" of you to suggest that i have not read that peer review you referred me to.In fact i have read it before but felt that this kind of attack or debunking by an official scientific peer review was always inevitable.By that i mean there was no way these findings by the BLT team was ever going to be seen as maybe getting closer to the realities that some formations could or are from unknown.alien sources.Do you really think the powers at be would not put an official stamp of denial on this by a official source??The same official rubber stamping of denial is happening with not only genuine unknown formations but UFOs too and with witnesses or abduction victims.

To presume i was not.I was passing on information from a man who's experiments and findings that were approved by credible scientific peers.Nobody really knows the real origins of these formations that are unexplained and to presume that the possibility of an unknown/extraterrestrial origin is NOT possible is presuming something that cannot be ruled out just now. The symbolism in some formations especially the formation that appeared to show added data to the radio signals sent from the radio telescope with INFORMATION about the human race cannot be ignored lightly.


http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/6700/hampshirexaengland01pu3.jpg


http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/8104/hampshirexb2001npm3.jpg


http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/8104/hampshirexb2001npm3.jpg

Possible response from unknown/alien origins from the data from the the radio signals sent by us in the past.

James did you get a reply from Hasselhof? There is something wrong somewhere. He now runs a guitar website and seems to have dropped all his past.

Either he has been spooked by the ptb into stopping his work on crop circles or he has something to hide himself. Could he be a controlled disinfo?

[presence]

Physicist Dr. Eltjo Haselhoff WAS not DEBUNKED by that peer-reviewed scientific journal article to which you referred me to by you? That peer review was attacking the BLT findings not Physicist Dr. Eltjo Haselhoff.Again i ask you WHY was Dr. Eltjo Haselhoffs experiments and conclusions accepted by a peer review and published in a well known and respected scientific journal?? Why would these peers rubber stamp his conclusions and publish them???

It is not as you say premature to suggest that some formations that show signs of what Haselhoff has discovered could be possible unknowns/extraterrestrial in origin .If we take what you mean by "premature" then it can be added to your views that as yet as we do not really know what the origins are then it is entirely plausible to suggest that some formations could be from unknown/extraterrestrial sources/origins.

What about the orbs seen by witnesses and also the formation that appeared in a field next to Stonehenge in broad day light in a 45 mins widow and commentated on by witnesses who said it was NOT i that field before the 45mis window of time it took to form???

It is entirely "premature" of you to suggest that i have not read that peer review you referred me to.In fact i have read it before but felt that this kind of attack or debunking by an official scientific peer review was always inevitable.By that i mean there was no way these findings by the BLT team was ever going to be seen as maybe getting closer to the realities that some formations could or are from unknown.alien sources.Do you really think the powers at be would not put an official stamp of denial on this by a official source??The same official rubber stamping of denial is happening with not only genuine unknown formations but UFOs too and with witnesses or abduction victims.

To presume i was not.I was passing on information from a man who's experiments and findings that were approved by credible scientific peers.Nobody really knows the real origins of these formations that are unexplained and to presume that the possibility of an unknown/extraterrestrial origin is NOT possible is presuming something that cannot be ruled out just now. The symbolism in some formations especially the formation that appeared to show added data to the radio signals sent from the radio telescope with INFORMATION about the human race cannot be ignored lightly.


http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/6700/hampshirexaengland01pu3.jpg


http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/8104/hampshirexb2001npm3.jpg


http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/8104/hampshirexb2001npm3.jpg

Possible response from unknown/alien origins from the data from the the radio signals sent by us in the past.
You say:'Physicist Dr. Eltjo Haselhoff WAS not DEBUNKED by that peer-reviewed scientific journal article to which you referred me... '

But as the abstract said:

'In particular, we show that Haselhoff s conclusions are
unsubstantiated and do not prove the involvement of an electromagnetic
radiation source in the creation event.'

You might also note from the article:

'Physiologia Plantarum Journal played a crucial role in publishing all three articles(by Levengood, Talbot and haselhoff) and giving these authors scientific support and credibility. Furthermore, our article was first submitted to Physiologia Plantarum Journal and its editorial board agreed with our comments about the pseudoscientific contents of the three articles'

Another telling point in the article:

'Moreover, the BOL model was selectively applied only to circular
imprints, while all other geometric crop formations with rectangular or more
complex patterns were deliberately ignored because they cannot fit the BOL
hypothesis.'

[elton]

You say:'Physicist Dr. Eltjo Haselhoff WAS not DEBUNKED by that peer-reviewed scientific journal article to which you referred me... '

But as the abstract said:

'In particular, we show that Haselhoff s conclusions are
unsubstantiated and do not prove the involvement of an electromagnetic
radiation source in the creation event.'

You might also note from the article:

'Physiologia Plantarum Journal played a crucial role in publishing all three articles(by Levengood, Talbot and haselhoff) and giving these authors scientific support and credibility. Furthermore, our article was first submitted to Physiologia Plantarum Journal and its editorial board agreed with our comments about the pseudoscientific contents of the three articles'

Another telling point in the article:

'Moreover, the BOL model was selectively applied only to circular
imprints, while all other geometric crop formations with rectangular or more
complex patterns were deliberately ignored because they cannot fit the BOL
hypothesis.'

We need to find out what happened to Hasselhof.

How come he gave up physics to sell guitar music?

Was he ever a physicist in the first place?

Why does he never mention his past research anymore?

I think he has had his mind reprogrammed by the ptb to change him from being a physicist to a guitarist. At least when they gave him his new powers they gave him powers so he could make money. Maybe that is what they do to silence people.

[jamesc]

"Physiologia Plantarum Journal played a crucial role in publishing all three articles(by Levengood, Talbot and haselhoff) and giving these authors scientific support and credibility. Furthermore, our article was first submitted to Physiologia Plantarum Journal and its editorial board agreed with our comments about the pseudoscientific contents of the three articles'"

(MY RESPONSE)
What we have here is a case of inflicting differences.Have the peers who accepted and passed off haselhoffs findings guilty of misconduct, negligence in their reviews??If so have they been reprimanded, make accountable or asked to explain their decisions of rubber stamping haselhoffs findings and experiments? if not then WHY not?? If these peers that supported haselhoff were not or have not had any of the latter proceedings inflicted on them then is it not a case that in the face of technology that science currently knows nothing about or has not as yet understood the common dominator here is ignorance.:cool:
(MY RESPONSE)
If we are dealing with an advanced technology by advance intelligences then this crucial understanding or lack off has a very big influence in what influences these kind of reviews.The same could be said from the information or study of many unexplained UFOs.We in fact do NOT know all there is to know about every thing and this reality has to be considered by ALL peers and scientific academics making decisions on genuine unexplained phenomenon.


Another telling point in the article:

'Moreover, the BOL model was selectively applied only to circular
imprints, while all other geometric crop formations with rectangular or more
complex patterns were deliberately ignored because they cannot fit the BOL
hypothesis.'


(MY RESPONSE)
Again the technology involved here could be possibly so advanced that only ONE BOL model is understood by our current understanding of physics.If as this article says that it was selectively applied to ONLY circular imprints , did this model find evidence of BOL origins in the circular imprints but could not by its current design or understanding apply that model to complex geometric formations or more complex patterns.

The very fact that this model could have found evidance through Haselhoffs experiments could support the latter argument.Also the fact that these peers who are debunking Haselhoffs experiments have admitted in the reality of, GEOMETRIC CROP FORMATIONS WITH RECTANGLE OR MORE COMPLEX PATTERNS and that the CURRENT BOL MODEL needs to be changed or advanced in its ability to UNDERSTAND the more complex formations.

Are they not admitting that to find evidence in non complex parts of a formation is still proof that some kind of advanced BOL was or could have been possibly responsible for this or other formations but we DO NOT have an ADVANCED MODEL of understanding in the present understanding of physics to completely understand why this BOL could possibly make the more complex parts of an formation??

We could be dealing with an advanced technology here and apart from Haselhoffs experiments that show the circular imprints of having a BOL origin we currently do not have or understand the model to be applied to the more complex parts of any given formation.

I would like to add that when i said that" these peers that were debunking Levengood and Talbot were not debunking Haselhoff i was meaning that they have not debunked him altogether in MY MIND .That is my view on this peer review that attacked Haselhoff, not that they did not attack him on the more complex PARTS of the patterens of this or any given formation but they did not in my mind completely rule out BOL for the non complex parts of any given formation that his experiments and findings found.

Maybe he should have stated this and also the peers who reviewed and passed off his findings as expectable in the model he was using but at the same time those peers that attacked him should have outlined the facts that his findings on the non complex designs of this formation,(CIRCULAR), did not in fact completely rule out possible advanced BOL technology IN THE NON COMPLEX parts of any given formation including the one he was working on.

I do sincerely apologise for not making myself clearly understood in my quote of "they were not debunking Haselhoff" and had NOT managed to settle down a bit of red mist that had descended on me at the time of typing that particular post.:(

"THERE IS NOTHING MORE EASILY MANIPULATED THAN GENIUS THAT IS NOT STREET WISE.":cool:

[jamesc]

We need to find out what happened to Hasselhof.

How come he gave up physics to sell guitar music?

Was he ever a physicist in the first place?

Why does he never mention his past research anymore?

I think he has had his mind reprogrammed by the ptb to change him from being a physicist to a guitarist. At least when they gave him his new powers they gave him powers so he could make money. Maybe that is what they do to silence people.




The Crop Circle Enigma Facts, Analysis, Hypotheses Dr Eltjo H. Haselhoff

Dutch version has appeared early March 1998 (Publisher: Ankh-Hermes, Deventer, Netherlands) An English Version is forthcoming A Synopsis of the book Crop Circles. Most people have heard about them. Many think that they are just simple circular imprints, occasionally found in crop fields, which could easily be made by men in ten minutes or so, with a plank or a garden roller.


The reality, however, is different. Since the late seventies, when the phenomenon started to manifest itself significantly in the South of England, about five thousand formations have been reported. And not just in England and the rest of Europe, but world wide, including America, Canada, China, India, Japan and Australia. Moreover, not just circles have appeared, but also much more complicated patterns, with cross sections of hundreds of meters. And they have not appeared in crop fields only, but in almost every type of vegetation one can think of, as well as in sand, ice and snow. Many people do not know, that also in the Netherlands many hundreds of formations have been found during the last few years (England is in fact the only country where more formations are found). The crop circles seem to be surrounded by many peculiar events, from malfunctioning of electronic equipment to spontaneous healings. Sceptics dismiss of these stories as being just the result of a vivid imagination, while others are convinced that the crop circles are signs of Mother Earth, or the work of Aliens, preparing for a come-back to Earth.

In this most legible, popular-scientific book, the crop circle phenomenon is discussed extensively and systematically. It contains an historical overview of crop circles in England and in the Netherlands, and many dozens of diagrams and colour photographs. It discusses the findings of scientists, over the years, like the biophysical anomalies that are found in the plants, sense and non-sense about indications of genuinely, as well as secondary aspects, like reactions of people, the role of the media, and crop circle hoaxers. Both findings of 'crop circle experts' as well as statements of sceptics are critically analysed.

The extensive analysis reveals that the crop circle phenomenon cannot be as simply explained as many people think, and that apparently something very strange is going on... NOTE: All books promoted through the Crop Circle Connector will have a personalised signature by the Author! A SIGNED copy of the book (in Dutch) may be obtained directly from the author, through the Crop Circle Connector. Send your address and a HFL 40,- Eurocheque (35,- + 5,- shipping and handling), payable to E.H. Haselhoff, to The Crop Circle Connector p/a E.H. Haselhoff Oude Sultan 1 5629 KV Eindhoven The Netherlands Allow ~ 1 week for delivery in the Netherlands.

The Synopsis of the book HET RAADSEL VAN DE GRAANCIRKELS FEITEN, ANALYSEN, HYPOTHESEN (The Crop Circle Enigma - Facts, Analyses, Hypotheses) In Dutch (English translation in preparation). Paperback, 194 pages, 44 colour photographs, many dozens of shadow diagrams, figures and graphs.

This is a popular-scientific book about the crop circle phenomenon. It has been written in a mild style, with simple words and sometimes a little humouristic, meant for the general public. Nevertheless, the book has a very systematic set-up, contains a sound analysis of facts, as well as scientifically solid reasoning (revealing the scientific background of the author). It consequently distinguishes itself clearly from most of the other works on this subject.

SUMMARY

Chapter 1 - Introduction

In this chapter the author tells how he became interested in the crop circle phenomenon. The first bits and pieces of information the author obtained (hardly available then) are discussed. A first, simple analysis strongly suggests that crop circles are not a hoax!

Chapter 2 - Crop Circles in England

This chapter gives a historical overview (with many diagrams and photographs) of crop circles in England, from the very first ones in the seventeenth century, to more recent appearances in the period 1976-1997. Some explanations of fractal theory are given. One section is dedicated to the impressive ‘Julia fractal’ near Stonehenge in 1996, and reveals interesting facts from a mathematical analysis!

Chapter 3 - Crop Circle Psychology

This chapter deal with reactions of people on the crop circle phenomenon. Three basic types of persons are defined: the believer, the doubter, and the denier. The keep it simple dogma is discussed, as well as the extraterrestrial hypothesis. The value of the scientific attitude, phrased by: I only believe things when there is sufficient proof is analysed in detail.

Chapter 4 - (Bio)physical Experiments

This chapter introduces the BLT research team, and the methods and findings of Dr William C. Levengood. It explains the methodology (including statistic relevance and plant sampling techniques) of node length measurements, germination experiments and redox tests and shows several experimental results. One section deals quite extensively with the criticism that has appeared, over the years, on Levengood’s work. This analysis reveals surprising facts!

Chapter 5 - Crop Circles in the Netherlands

An historical overview (1986-1997) of the world's second-best crop circle country is given, and several very peculiar events are described, e.g. the finding of strange white powder deposits (with chemical analysis and microscope images), a bizarre formation in a desolate carrot field, pictograms in snow and much more!

Chapter 6 - Indications of Genuinity

This chapter deals extensively with the sense and non-sense of genuinity marks in crop circles, like ‘bent but not broken stems’, footprints, damaged crop, swollen and bent nodes, multifold geometry, burn marks and much more. A 'must-read' for the beginning - and more experienced - crop circle researcher!

Chapter 7 - Crop Circles and the Media

This chapter discusses the behaviour of the media when it comes to reports about crop circles. It explains the frustrations which develop when mysteries can not be solved soon enough. Several examples of non-objective, prejudiced and even unjust reporting (all personally experienced by the author) are given.

Chapter 8 - Hoaxers

This chapter discusses crop circle hoaxers, and not just Doug Bower and David Chorley. Although hoaxers are often thought of as rational jokers who have pulled the legs of the naive and close-minded crop circle researchers for over twenty years, it is revealed that this image is not at all correct. Solid facts and mathematical analyses are used to show how some hoaxers do not know as much as they pretend!:D;)

Chapter 9 - At the Edge of Reality

This chapter presents a list of recent ‘ghost stories’, strange events in and around the crop circles, all out of first hand or personally experienced by the author. Animals in panic, failing photo cameras and video equipment, UFO’s and balls of light, anomalous black dots on infrared and normal photographs - it's all here!

Chapter 10 - Hypotheses

It is concluded that the statement all crop circles are simply human hoaxes is premature and leaves too many questions unanswered. The most popular alternative hypotheses are briefly discussed. A phenomenological scenario is presented, which tries to link the common denominators of all the known and reliable facts.

The book ends with: ‘For all of you who have never seen a real crop circle: whenever you have the chance, go for it. It is well worth the visit. But do remember: ask for the farmer’s permission, and STAY IN THE TRAMLINES (so that I can still make a nice aerial photograph).


About the author...

Eltjo Haselhoff was born in the Netherlands, in 1962. After finishing Grammar School in 1981, he started his study of experimental physics at the University of Twente, where he obtained his M. Sc. Degree in 1987, specialised in high power laser physics. Five years later, after working at several Dutch research institutes and one year at Los Alamos National Laboratories, USA, he obtained his Ph.D. in physics, specialised in free-electron lasers and high current electron beam accelerators.:cool:

Since many years, he spends a considerable part of his spare time in Dutch and foreign crop fields. When he is not thinking about crop circles, he spends time with his family, composes music, builds guitars and five-string banjo’s or draws cartoons.


Yes he is a physicist.

[elton]

The Crop Circle Enigma Facts, Analysis, Hypotheses Dr Eltjo H. Haselhoff

Dutch version has appeared early March 1998 (Publisher: Ankh-Hermes, Deventer, Netherlands) An English Version is forthcoming A Synopsis of the book Crop Circles. Most people have heard about them. Many think that they are just simple circular imprints, occasionally found in crop fields, which could easily be made by men in ten minutes or so, with a plank or a garden roller.


The reality, however, is different. Since the late seventies, when the phenomenon started to manifest itself significantly in the South of England, about five thousand formations have been reported. And not just in England and the rest of Europe, but world wide, including America, Canada, China, India, Japan and Australia. Moreover, not just circles have appeared, but also much more complicated patterns, with cross sections of hundreds of meters. And they have not appeared in crop fields only, but in almost every type of vegetation one can think of, as well as in sand, ice and snow. Many people do not know, that also in the Netherlands many hundreds of formations have been found during the last few years (England is in fact the only country where more formations are found). The crop circles seem to be surrounded by many peculiar events, from malfunctioning of electronic equipment to spontaneous healings. Sceptics dismiss of these stories as being just the result of a vivid imagination, while others are convinced that the crop circles are signs of Mother Earth, or the work of Aliens, preparing for a come-back to Earth.

In this most legible, popular-scientific book, the crop circle phenomenon is discussed extensively and systematically. It contains an historical overview of crop circles in England and in the Netherlands, and many dozens of diagrams and colour photographs. It discusses the findings of scientists, over the years, like the biophysical anomalies that are found in the plants, sense and non-sense about indications of genuinely, as well as secondary aspects, like reactions of people, the role of the media, and crop circle hoaxers. Both findings of 'crop circle experts' as well as statements of sceptics are critically analysed.

The extensive analysis reveals that the crop circle phenomenon cannot be as simply explained as many people think, and that apparently something very strange is going on... NOTE: All books promoted through the Crop Circle Connector will have a personalised signature by the Author! A SIGNED copy of the book (in Dutch) may be obtained directly from the author, through the Crop Circle Connector. Send your address and a HFL 40,- Eurocheque (35,- + 5,- shipping and handling), payable to E.H. Haselhoff, to The Crop Circle Connector p/a E.H. Haselhoff Oude Sultan 1 5629 KV Eindhoven The Netherlands Allow ~ 1 week for delivery in the Netherlands.

The Synopsis of the book HET RAADSEL VAN DE GRAANCIRKELS FEITEN, ANALYSEN, HYPOTHESEN (The Crop Circle Enigma - Facts, Analyses, Hypotheses) In Dutch (English translation in preparation). Paperback, 194 pages, 44 colour photographs, many dozens of shadow diagrams, figures and graphs.

This is a popular-scientific book about the crop circle phenomenon. It has been written in a mild style, with simple words and sometimes a little humouristic, meant for the general public. Nevertheless, the book has a very systematic set-up, contains a sound analysis of facts, as well as scientifically solid reasoning (revealing the scientific background of the author). It consequently distinguishes itself clearly from most of the other works on this subject.

SUMMARY

Chapter 1 - Introduction

In this chapter the author tells how he became interested in the crop circle phenomenon. The first bits and pieces of information the author obtained (hardly available then) are discussed. A first, simple analysis strongly suggests that crop circles are not a hoax!

Chapter 2 - Crop Circles in England

This chapter gives a historical overview (with many diagrams and photographs) of crop circles in England, from the very first ones in the seventeenth century, to more recent appearances in the period 1976-1997. Some explanations of fractal theory are given. One section is dedicated to the impressive ‘Julia fractal’ near Stonehenge in 1996, and reveals interesting facts from a mathematical analysis!

Chapter 3 - Crop Circle Psychology

This chapter deal with reactions of people on the crop circle phenomenon. Three basic types of persons are defined: the believer, the doubter, and the denier. The keep it simple dogma is discussed, as well as the extraterrestrial hypothesis. The value of the scientific attitude, phrased by: I only believe things when there is sufficient proof is analysed in detail.

Chapter 4 - (Bio)physical Experiments

This chapter introduces the BLT research team, and the methods and findings of Dr William C. Levengood. It explains the methodology (including statistic relevance and plant sampling techniques) of node length measurements, germination experiments and redox tests and shows several experimental results. One section deals quite extensively with the criticism that has appeared, over the years, on Levengood’s work. This analysis reveals surprising facts!

Chapter 5 - Crop Circles in the Netherlands

An historical overview (1986-1997) of the world's second-best crop circle country is given, and several very peculiar events are described, e.g. the finding of strange white powder deposits (with chemical analysis and microscope images), a bizarre formation in a desolate carrot field, pictograms in snow and much more!

Chapter 6 - Indications of Genuinity

This chapter deals extensively with the sense and non-sense of genuinity marks in crop circles, like ‘bent but not broken stems’, footprints, damaged crop, swollen and bent nodes, multifold geometry, burn marks and much more. A 'must-read' for the beginning - and more experienced - crop circle researcher!

Chapter 7 - Crop Circles and the Media

This chapter discusses the behaviour of the media when it comes to reports about crop circles. It explains the frustrations which develop when mysteries can not be solved soon enough. Several examples of non-objective, prejudiced and even unjust reporting (all personally experienced by the author) are given.

Chapter 8 - Hoaxers

This chapter discusses crop circle hoaxers, and not just Doug Bower and David Chorley. Although hoaxers are often thought of as rational jokers who have pulled the legs of the naive and close-minded crop circle researchers for over twenty years, it is revealed that this image is not at all correct. Solid facts and mathematical analyses are used to show how some hoaxers do not know as much as they pretend!:D;)

Chapter 9 - At the Edge of Reality

This chapter presents a list of recent ‘ghost stories’, strange events in and around the crop circles, all out of first hand or personally experienced by the author. Animals in panic, failing photo cameras and video equipment, UFO’s and balls of light, anomalous black dots on infrared and normal photographs - it's all here!

Chapter 10 - Hypotheses

It is concluded that the statement all crop circles are simply human hoaxes is premature and leaves too many questions unanswered. The most popular alternative hypotheses are briefly discussed. A phenomenological scenario is presented, which tries to link the common denominators of all the known and reliable facts.

The book ends with: ‘For all of you who have never seen a real crop circle: whenever you have the chance, go for it. It is well worth the visit. But do remember: ask for the farmer’s permission, and STAY IN THE TRAMLINES (so that I can still make a nice aerial photograph).


About the author...

Eltjo Haselhoff was born in the Netherlands, in 1962. After finishing Grammar School in 1981, he started his study of experimental physics at the University of Twente, where he obtained his M. Sc. Degree in 1987, specialised in high power laser physics. Five years later, after working at several Dutch research institutes and one year at Los Alamos National Laboratories, USA, he obtained his Ph.D. in physics, specialised in free-electron lasers and high current electron beam accelerators.:cool:

Since many years, he spends a considerable part of his spare time in Dutch and foreign crop fields. When he is not thinking about crop circles, he spends time with his family, composes music, builds guitars and five-string banjo’s or draws cartoons.


Yes he is a physicist.


But why has he done nothing for almost 10 years? The stuff you post is very old and I'm concerned that in about 2003 he was silenced by the ptb.

Also he has said that the alien face crop circle of 2001 in your avatar was a hoax. I think he is cointelpro.

[jamesc]

One Reason for the Secrecy
28-Sep-2009


Agriculture Minister Kusmaria
http://www.unknowncountry.com/img/news/062009/indiam.jpg

Serious science reporters like Linda Moulton Howe have witnessed small orbs of light creating crop circles, yet the British government, where most of these appear, insists they are all manmade, and the US media goes along with this. Now we've discovered a possible REASON for this reticence.
There are crop circles in India too: The UFO Blogger website reports that the Agriculture Minister of India's Madhya Pradesh State, Ramkrishna Kusmaria, saw and photographed a UFO "damaging standing crop" and causing papayas to fall from trees as it passed by emitting sparks. Because the object was observed by the agriculture minister himself:cool:, local farmers are now claiming government compensation. District Collector R.A. Khandelwal went to Sukha Village on Wednesday to asses the extent of the damage.

Each year in the United Kingdom, the National Farmer's Union states that farmers lose hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of crops to damage from the extensive crop formations that appear there each summer season. If the British Government admitted that the formations are caused by an unknown means, there would be avenues of compensation open to farmers. However, as long as they continue to claim vandalism, it remains a police matter. In addition, the military does not have to admit that it cannot control the unknown force causing the damage.:rolleyes:

This is similar to the US government's vigorous denial that alien beings are abducting people from their bedrooms and cars: They don't want to admit that there's nothing they can do about it!:cool:

Can't make it to the UK to see the crop circles this year? You can enjoy them in our delightful crop circle calendar (these have just arrived!) And if you're tired of all the disinformation and lying, come join us at our Stargate Conference in Joshua Tree, California on October 16-18. We've amassed a lot of good information over the years that we want to share with you and subscribers have a coupon that gives them $25 off!

For more information, click here. http://www.ufo-blogger.com/2009/09/indian-madhya-pradesh-state-agriculture.html

Amazon.com: Mysterious Lights and Crop Circles (9781879706910): Linda Moulton Howe, Linda Moulton Howe: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51FB59E0KDL.@@AMEPARAM@@51FB59E0KDL

[jamesc]

DR. HASSELHOFF & BALLS OF LIGHT THEORY

Dr. Haselhoff provides an overview of his peer reviewed scientific paper that was published in an early 2001 Physiologia Plantarum issue. It's important to note his paper was based upon data from the former 99' B.L.T. report, which analyzed the data from a Crop Circle where witness's saw B.O.L. activity during its formation. This is why the title imply's that Crop Circles are made by B.O.L.s, as this particular work ties into that case.

It's important to point out this is may not be true in all cases, as eyewitnesses have described other phenomena as well during a Circle's creation. B.O.L.s have been witnessed and recorded to frequent around Crop Circles for sometime after as well. It's inconclusive as to what the connection might be related to R1, however Haselhoff's report is significant for us as it scientifically documents the reality of a B.O.L. connection.

This lends credence to the importance of our eyewitness testimony of seeing one very late the evening prior to R1s discovery. His description portrays typical characteristics a B.O.L. would have. In 3 different video taped interviews, conducted with him on different days, his testimony remains consistent and does not waiver in the least. Furthermore he lives in a house across the street from R1 and his mother confirmed details surrounding her son's story, all of which strongly indicates he was telling the truth. Other witnesses were present with him and saw this as well but prefer to remain silent on it.

Dr. Haselhoff's overall work is significant to ours as it backs up and underscores the an easily applied field testing procedure previewed here for the first time as the L-NEAT Process. This procedure was named by Dr. Lietzau in honor of Professor Levengood's work with B.L.T. Research laying the foundation for L-NEAT's creation. Dr. Lietzau created L-NEAT's protocols when he recognized the need for a process that competent field investigators could easily use in the field, u for a quick determination if new formations were authentic or hoaxed.

The L-NEAT Process has been utilized in the documentation process of R1 and R2, and is previewed here for the first time as scientific evidence weighing heavily towards the formation's authenticity.




Scientific Studies Confirm: Crop Circles Made by "Balls of Light"

Eltjo Haselhoff, PhD.

THIS ARTICLE IS FREE OF COPYRIGHTS AND MAY BE COPIED AND DISTRIBUTED FREELY
___________

Over the years, numerous people have claimed that they have seen how a crop circle was created by one or more "balls of light".
Recent www.ecn.org/cunfi/Haselhoff.pdf have confirmed these statements: Circumstantial evidence has shown that crop circles may very well be made by ‘balls of light' indeed! This article explains the essential elements of these studies in simple terms.

Node Lengthening
The stems of corn-type plants are characterised by little ‘knuckles', at several positions along the stems (see Figure 1). These nodes act as a kind of ligament. They allow the plants to bend towards the light, even after they have grown to their full length.





In the early 1990s, the American biophysicist William Levengood discovered that plants inside crop circles often had much longer nodes than those in the undisturbed, surrounding crop. This effect is illustrated in Figure 2.



Figure 2


Although there are known biological effects that can create node lengthening, these could be easily ruled out. It was clear that something else had happened. The effect could be simulated by placing normal, healthy stems inside a microwave oven. The heat induced by the microwaves made the liquids inside the nodes expand, just like the mercury inside a thermometer. This caused the nodes to increase in length, while the amount of lengthening increased proportionally to the amount of microwave energy that was generated.

This finding led to the conclusion that the node lengthening effect may be caused by the involvement of heat, possibly caused by microwave radiation. In fact, traces of heat have been found innumerable times in crop circles all over the world, such as dehydrated plants, burn marks, and molten snow.

Balls of Light
The number of ‘balls of light' that have been seen by eyewitnesses has increased considerably over the last couple of years. Sized somewhere between an egg and a football, these bright, fluorescent, flying light objects seem to be somehow related to the crop circle phenomenon. They often appear in the fields during the night a crop circle forms, and have been seen (and filmed!) many times in and around crop circles. Several persons have even claimed that they witnessed how these balls of light actually created a crop circle.

Science Responds
In the year 1999, William Levengood and Nancy Talbott published a scientific paper [1] that contained a study to the node lengthening effect in three different crop circles, two in England and one in the USA. The authors presented a ‘quantitative analysis’; in other words, the article tried to explain the AMOUNT of node lengthening throughout the crop circle, by means of physical models. The authors concluded that the heat (that had made the nodes swell) was electromagnetic in origin.

One year later, I contributed a paper reacting to the one by Levengood and Talbott. This article appeared early 2001 [2]. The paper reinterpreted the data published by Levengood and Talbott and showed that the node lengthening as measured in all three crop circles could be perfectly explained by assuming that a ‘ball of light’ had caused the node swelling effect. An identical analysis performed on a famous man-made formation (Dreischor, Holland, 1997) did not show these characteristics at all.

My statements can be interpreted as follows: Imagine a dark room with one single light bulb hanging on the ceiling. If you switch on the light, you will notice that right below the light bulb the light intensity on the floor will be brightest. Towards the edges of the room, the floor will gradually become darker. This light distribution on the floor is well understood, and can be described with high accuracy.

The exact light distribution on the floor depends on the HEIGHT of the light bulb. When the light bulb is hanging very low, almost touching the floor, the floor underneath the light bulb will be very bright, but the intensity will rapidly become less as you move away from it (see Figure 3, left). When the light is hanging high on the ceiling, however, the light intensity underneath the light will be much less and be more evenly distributed over the floor (see Figure 3, right). Because this mechanism is so well known, one can actually derive the height of the light bulb after measuring the light distribution on the floor.




This is what I suggested. As explained above, the swollen nodes inside the crop circles may be thought of as many little thermometers, expanding their length with increasing heat. If one assumes that the heat was induced by a small spherical shape emitting electromagnetic radiation, the theoretical heat distribution on the floor can be accurately determined (similarly to the case of the light bulb, as discussed above). I demonstrated that the measured node lengths in all of the three crop circles studies by Levengood and Talbott perfectly matched the temperature distribution that would be caused by a small ball of light, hanging in the air above the centre of the circles, emitting intense heat.

An identical analysis was repeated on a formation in Holland [3]. An eye witness claimed that this crop circle was created in a matter of seconds, while a "ball of light" was floating in the air, right above the centre of the circle [4]. Figure 4 shows the results.



The yellow bars indicate the average node length measured at seven different locations across the crop circle, from one edge (position b1), through the centre (a4), to the opposite edge (b7). Note the perfect symmetry, which is remarkable! Similar graphs were obtained from two different cross sections through the circle, revealing a perfect circular symmetry: long nodes towards the centre of the circle, shorter nodes towards the edges.

The thick, continuous, blueish line represents the theoretical value of the node length across the circle, if it were caused by a ball of light at a height of 4 meters and 10 centimetres. (This height corresponded to the estimate of the eyewitness). Just like the three crop circles analysed by Levengood and Talbott, the theoretical values for the node length (blue line) correspond perfectly to the measurements (yellow bars).

Consequently, the circumstantial evidence left in the fields was in perfect agreement with the words of the eyewitness: the crop circle was indeed created with the involvement of a "ball of light".

Conclusions
My paper shows that the node lengthening in several crop circles corresponds perfectly to the effect that would be created by a ball of light, heating up the crop during the creation of the crop circle. This is not the case for a man-made formation.

The amount of node lengthening, and in particular its symmetry over the crop circles, lack any trivial explanation. Consequently, the study confirms the words of eyewitnesses, stating that they saw how crop circles were created by "balls of light."

My paper does not attempt to explain where the balls of light come from, nor does it explain how the crop is flattened. It does, however, give a strong argument to take the "ball of light" phenomenon, as well as the words of eyewitnesses, very seriously, and I hope will stimulate further study.

Finally, it should be mentioned that all these findings and conclusions have been published in ‘peer-reviewed’ scientific journals. In order to guarantee a high level of reliability, such journals employ so-called ‘referees’ (objective, anonymous experts), who accurately check each contributed paper for errors and inconsistencies before it is published.:D Consequently, conclusions published in peer-reviewed scientific journals can not be simply dismissed as wild fantasy or pseudo-science. Therefore, it is fair to say that recent scientific findings have established considerable progress in understanding the crop circle phenomenon, although many questions still remain unanswered.:D

References
[1] W.C. Levengood, N.P. Talbott, "Dispersion of energies in worldwide crop formations", Physiol. Plant. 105: 615-624 (1999).
[2] E.H. Haselhoff, "Comment to Physiol. Plant. 105: 615-624", Physiol. Plant. 111: 123-125 (2001).
[3] E.H. Haselhoff, http://www.dcccs.org/id48.htm
[4] See, for example, N.P. Talbott, http:/www.labyrinthina.com/crop.htm, or N.P. Talbott, http://www.crystalinks.com/crop1999.2.html.

Further study
Much more information can be found in Eltjo Haselhoff's popular-scientific book: The Deepening Complexity of Crop Circles.


http://psiapplications.com/Treepad/documents/70.html

[elton]

DR. HASSELHOFF & BALLS OF LIGHT THEORY

Dr. Haselhoff provides an overview of his peer reviewed scientific paper that was published in an early 2001 Physiologia Plantarum issue. It's important to note his paper was based upon data from the former 99' B.L.T. report, which analyzed the data from a Crop Circle where witness's saw B.O.L. activity during its formation. This is why the title imply's that Crop Circles are made by B.O.L.s, as this particular work ties into that case.

It's important to point out this is may not be true in all cases, as eyewitnesses have described other phenomena as well during a Circle's creation. B.O.L.s have been witnessed and recorded to frequent around Crop Circles for sometime after as well. It's inconclusive as to what the connection might be related to R1, however Haselhoff's report is significant for us as it scientifically documents the reality of a B.O.L. connection.

This lends credence to the importance of our eyewitness testimony of seeing one very late the evening prior to R1s discovery. His description portrays typical characteristics a B.O.L. would have. In 3 different video taped interviews, conducted with him on different days, his testimony remains consistent and does not waiver in the least. Furthermore he lives in a house across the street from R1 and his mother confirmed details surrounding her son's story, all of which strongly indicates he was telling the truth. Other witnesses were present with him and saw this as well but prefer to remain silent on it.

Dr. Haselhoff's overall work is significant to ours as it backs up and underscores the an easily applied field testing procedure previewed here for the first time as the L-NEAT Process. This procedure was named by Dr. Lietzau in honor of Professor Levengood's work with B.L.T. Research laying the foundation for L-NEAT's creation. Dr. Lietzau created L-NEAT's protocols when he recognized the need for a process that competent field investigators could easily use in the field, u for a quick determination if new formations were authentic or hoaxed.

The L-NEAT Process has been utilized in the documentation process of R1 and R2, and is previewed here for the first time as scientific evidence weighing heavily towards the formation's authenticity.




Scientific Studies Confirm: Crop Circles Made by "Balls of Light"

Eltjo Haselhoff, PhD.

THIS ARTICLE IS FREE OF COPYRIGHTS AND MAY BE COPIED AND DISTRIBUTED FREELY
___________

Over the years, numerous people have claimed that they have seen how a crop circle was created by one or more "balls of light".
Recent www.ecn.org/cunfi/Haselhoff.pdf have confirmed these statements: Circumstantial evidence has shown that crop circles may very well be made by ‘balls of light' indeed! This article explains the essential elements of these studies in simple terms.

Node Lengthening
The stems of corn-type plants are characterised by little ‘knuckles', at several positions along the stems (see Figure 1). These nodes act as a kind of ligament. They allow the plants to bend towards the light, even after they have grown to their full length.





In the early 1990s, the American biophysicist William Levengood discovered that plants inside crop circles often had much longer nodes than those in the undisturbed, surrounding crop. This effect is illustrated in Figure 2.



Figure 2


Although there are known biological effects that can create node lengthening, these could be easily ruled out. It was clear that something else had happened. The effect could be simulated by placing normal, healthy stems inside a microwave oven. The heat induced by the microwaves made the liquids inside the nodes expand, just like the mercury inside a thermometer. This caused the nodes to increase in length, while the amount of lengthening increased proportionally to the amount of microwave energy that was generated.

This finding led to the conclusion that the node lengthening effect may be caused by the involvement of heat, possibly caused by microwave radiation. In fact, traces of heat have been found innumerable times in crop circles all over the world, such as dehydrated plants, burn marks, and molten snow.

Balls of Light
The number of ‘balls of light' that have been seen by eyewitnesses has increased considerably over the last couple of years. Sized somewhere between an egg and a football, these bright, fluorescent, flying light objects seem to be somehow related to the crop circle phenomenon. They often appear in the fields during the night a crop circle forms, and have been seen (and filmed!) many times in and around crop circles. Several persons have even claimed that they witnessed how these balls of light actually created a crop circle.

Science Responds
In the year 1999, William Levengood and Nancy Talbott published a scientific paper [1] that contained a study to the node lengthening effect in three different crop circles, two in England and one in the USA. The authors presented a ‘quantitative analysis’; in other words, the article tried to explain the AMOUNT of node lengthening throughout the crop circle, by means of physical models. The authors concluded that the heat (that had made the nodes swell) was electromagnetic in origin.

One year later, I contributed a paper reacting to the one by Levengood and Talbott. This article appeared early 2001 [2]. The paper reinterpreted the data published by Levengood and Talbott and showed that the node lengthening as measured in all three crop circles could be perfectly explained by assuming that a ‘ball of light’ had caused the node swelling effect. An identical analysis performed on a famous man-made formation (Dreischor, Holland, 1997) did not show these characteristics at all.

My statements can be interpreted as follows: Imagine a dark room with one single light bulb hanging on the ceiling. If you switch on the light, you will notice that right below the light bulb the light intensity on the floor will be brightest. Towards the edges of the room, the floor will gradually become darker. This light distribution on the floor is well understood, and can be described with high accuracy.

The exact light distribution on the floor depends on the HEIGHT of the light bulb. When the light bulb is hanging very low, almost touching the floor, the floor underneath the light bulb will be very bright, but the intensity will rapidly become less as you move away from it (see Figure 3, left). When the light is hanging high on the ceiling, however, the light intensity underneath the light will be much less and be more evenly distributed over the floor (see Figure 3, right). Because this mechanism is so well known, one can actually derive the height of the light bulb after measuring the light distribution on the floor.




This is what I suggested. As explained above, the swollen nodes inside the crop circles may be thought of as many little thermometers, expanding their length with increasing heat. If one assumes that the heat was induced by a small spherical shape emitting electromagnetic radiation, the theoretical heat distribution on the floor can be accurately determined (similarly to the case of the light bulb, as discussed above). I demonstrated that the measured node lengths in all of the three crop circles studies by Levengood and Talbott perfectly matched the temperature distribution that would be caused by a small ball of light, hanging in the air above the centre of the circles, emitting intense heat.

An identical analysis was repeated on a formation in Holland [3]. An eye witness claimed that this crop circle was created in a matter of seconds, while a "ball of light" was floating in the air, right above the centre of the circle [4]. Figure 4 shows the results.



The yellow bars indicate the average node length measured at seven different locations across the crop circle, from one edge (position b1), through the centre (a4), to the opposite edge (b7). Note the perfect symmetry, which is remarkable! Similar graphs were obtained from two different cross sections through the circle, revealing a perfect circular symmetry: long nodes towards the centre of the circle, shorter nodes towards the edges.

The thick, continuous, blueish line represents the theoretical value of the node length across the circle, if it were caused by a ball of light at a height of 4 meters and 10 centimetres. (This height corresponded to the estimate of the eyewitness). Just like the three crop circles analysed by Levengood and Talbott, the theoretical values for the node length (blue line) correspond perfectly to the measurements (yellow bars).

Consequently, the circumstantial evidence left in the fields was in perfect agreement with the words of the eyewitness: the crop circle was indeed created with the involvement of a "ball of light".

Conclusions
My paper shows that the node lengthening in several crop circles corresponds perfectly to the effect that would be created by a ball of light, heating up the crop during the creation of the crop circle. This is not the case for a man-made formation.

The amount of node lengthening, and in particular its symmetry over the crop circles, lack any trivial explanation. Consequently, the study confirms the words of eyewitnesses, stating that they saw how crop circles were created by "balls of light."

My paper does not attempt to explain where the balls of light come from, nor does it explain how the crop is flattened. It does, however, give a strong argument to take the "ball of light" phenomenon, as well as the words of eyewitnesses, very seriously, and I hope will stimulate further study.

Finally, it should be mentioned that all these findings and conclusions have been published in ‘peer-reviewed’ scientific journals. In order to guarantee a high level of reliability, such journals employ so-called ‘referees’ (objective, anonymous experts), who accurately check each contributed paper for errors and inconsistencies before it is published.:D Consequently, conclusions published in peer-reviewed scientific journals can not be simply dismissed as wild fantasy or pseudo-science. Therefore, it is fair to say that recent scientific findings have established considerable progress in understanding the crop circle phenomenon, although many questions still remain unanswered.:D

References
[1] W.C. Levengood, N.P. Talbott, "Dispersion of energies in worldwide crop formations", Physiol. Plant. 105: 615-624 (1999).
[2] E.H. Haselhoff, "Comment to Physiol. Plant. 105: 615-624", Physiol. Plant. 111: 123-125 (2001).
[3] E.H. Haselhoff, http://www.dcccs.org/id48.htm
[4] See, for example, N.P. Talbott, http:/www.labyrinthina.com/crop.htm, or N.P. Talbott, http://www.crystalinks.com/crop1999.2.html.

Further study
Much more information can be found in Eltjo Haselhoff's popular-scientific book: The Deepening Complexity of Crop Circles.


http://psiapplications.com/Treepad/documents/70.html

You keep reposting the same work over and over again. Its exactly the same work you just copy and paste from different websites and it is from the early 2000s.

Also that other guy posted debunking evidence.

If you want to use Hasselhof you need to explain why he has done nothing since the debunking. Either the debunking is correct and he has accepted that or he has been silenced by some sort of treachery.

But if there is nothing from him since the debunking then maybe he is a fraud or cointelpro.

However he has said that the alien face circle is a hoax so something is going on.

[presence]

"Physiologia Plantarum Journal played a crucial role in publishing all three articles(by Levengood, Talbot and haselhoff) and giving these authors scientific support and credibility. Furthermore, our article was first submitted to Physiologia Plantarum Journal and its editorial board agreed with our comments about the pseudoscientific contents of the three articles'"

(MY RESPONSE)
What we have here is a case of inflicting differences.Have the peers who accepted and passed off haselhoffs findings guilty of misconduct, negligence in their reviews??If so have they been reprimanded, make accountable or asked to explain their decisions of rubber stamping haselhoffs findings and experiments? if not then WHY not?? If these peers that supported haselhoff were not or have not had any of the latter proceedings inflicted on them then is it not a case that in the face of technology that science currently knows nothing about or has not as yet understood the common dominator here is ignorance.:cool:
(MY RESPONSE)
If we are dealing with an advanced technology by advance intelligences then this crucial understanding or lack off has a very big influence in what influences these kind of reviews.The same could be said from the information or study of many unexplained UFOs.We in fact do NOT know all there is to know about every thing and this reality has to be considered by ALL peers and scientific academics making decisions on genuine unexplained phenomenon.


Another telling point in the article:

'Moreover, the BOL model was selectively applied only to circular
imprints, while all other geometric crop formations with rectangular or more
complex patterns were deliberately ignored because they cannot fit the BOL
hypothesis.'


(MY RESPONSE)
Again the technology involved here could be possibly so advanced that only ONE BOL model is understood by our current understanding of physics.If as this article says that it was selectively applied to ONLY circular imprints , did this model find evidence of BOL origins in the circular imprints but could not by its current design or understanding apply that model to complex geometric formations or more complex patterns.

The very fact that this model could have found evidance through Haselhoffs experiments could support the latter argument.Also the fact that these peers who are debunking Haselhoffs experiments have admitted in the reality of, GEOMETRIC CROP FORMATIONS WITH RECTANGLE OR MORE COMPLEX PATTERNS and that the CURRENT BOL MODEL needs to be changed or advanced in its ability to UNDERSTAND the more complex formations.

Are they not admitting that to find evidence in non complex parts of a formation is still proof that some kind of advanced BOL was or could have been possibly responsible for this or other formations but we DO NOT have an ADVANCED MODEL of understanding in the present understanding of physics to completely understand why this BOL could possibly make the more complex parts of an formation??

We could be dealing with an advanced technology here and apart from Haselhoffs experiments that show the circular imprints of having a BOL origin we currently do not have or understand the model to be applied to the more complex parts of any given formation.

I would like to add that when i said that" these peers that were debunking Levengood and Talbot were not debunking Haselhoff i was meaning that they have not debunked him altogether in MY MIND .That is my view on this peer review that attacked Haselhoff, not that they did not attack him on the more complex PARTS of the patterens of this or any given formation but they did not in my mind completely rule out BOL for the non complex parts of any given formation that his experiments and findings found.

Maybe he should have stated this and also the peers who reviewed and passed off his findings as expectable in the model he was using but at the same time those peers that attacked him should have outlined the facts that his findings on the non complex designs of this formation,(CIRCULAR), did not in fact completely rule out possible advanced BOL technology IN THE NON COMPLEX parts of any given formation including the one he was working on.

I do sincerely apologise for not making myself clearly understood in my quote of "they were not debunking Haselhoff" and had NOT managed to settle down a bit of red mist that had descended on me at the time of typing that particular post.:(

"THERE IS NOTHING MORE EASILY MANIPULATED THAN GENIUS THAT IS NOT STREET WISE.":cool:
Yes, I broadly agree with your insights here.

And yes, we must beware the red mist - and of inadvertantly provoking it in others, a talent I seem to have in large measure.

A point that repeatedly comes up in these discussions is that we may be dealing with an intelligence and a technology beyond our own. Necessarily then, we are going to have problems understanding it. So, maybe all we can do is just keep looking, and with all our resources - as you suggest.

[jamesc]

Yes, I broadly agree with your insights here.

And yes, we must beware the red mist - and of inadvertantly provoking it in others, a talent I seem to have in large measure.

A point that repeatedly comes up in these discussions is that we may be dealing with an intelligence and a technology beyond our own. Necessarily then, we are going to have problems understanding it. So, maybe all we can do is just keep looking, and with all our resources - as you suggest.


Yes i agree we all must keep on looking with all of our resources and maybe just maybe we all will begin to or finally understand this complex and exciting enigma.

[elton]

Yes i agree we all must keep on looking with all of our resources and maybe just maybe we all will begin to or finally understand this complex and exciting enigma.

This Hasselhof guy is definately cointelpro. He says the Crabwood face is a hoax. Everybody knows it can not be a hoax as humans couldn't make it.

http://www.cropcircleresearch.com/articles/alienface3.html

[presence]

This Hasselhof guy is definately cointelpro. He says the Crabwood face is a hoax. Everybody knows it can not be a hoax as humans couldn't make it.

http://www.cropcircleresearch.com/articles/alienface3.html
Forgive my ignorance but i don't know what 'ciontelpro' means.

Why could not humans make the Crabwood face? I can see it would be difficult to do on the ground. But from above with technology not yet in mainstream science - maybe.

[elton]

Forgive my ignorance but i don't know what 'ciontelpro' means.

Why could not humans make the Crabwood face? I can see it would be difficult to do on the ground. But from above with technology not yet in mainstream science - maybe.


Sorry I spelled cointelpro wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTEL

Hasselhof tried to make money by publishing in the early 2000s on orbs making crop circles. Then he visited Crabwood and published that it is a hoax.

Now he lives in the US! He has taken on a new identity - he is no longer a physicist - he sells guitar lessons on the internet. He has been brainwashed I think.

Levengood may also be cointelpro - it was discovered that he actually has no academic qualifications. His "PhD equivalent" was checked with the awarding University. They confirmed that there is no such thing. Levengood has also dissapeared!

Its rather strange that Levengood has dissapeared - (murdered in 2001?) and Hasselhof now lives in the US and is no longer a physicist. Both stopped their work suddenly without warning.

Something is not right.

[jamesc]

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M.S. in Geological Sciences and Clay Chemistry,State University
of New York (SUNY)--1984
State Geologist at the Vermont Agency of Natural Resources, 1991-1995; Director of Environmental Programs for Salt Lake Organizing Committee, Olympic Winter Games, 2002.
Currently: President, Maka Cante Associates -- Tucson, Arizona.


IYENGAR, Dr. Sampath S. .............................. Geochemist/Mineralogist
Ph.D in Materials Chemistry/Mineralogy, VA Tech--1980
M.S. in Soil Physical Chemistry, VA Tech--1972
Materials Science specialist, with strong background in the analytical characterization of materials. Developed XRD method for characterization and analysis of pharmaceutical compounds in multi-component mixtures.
Currently: Analytical Manager, Technology of Materials Laboratory --
Wildomar, California.




KASHER, Dr. John C. (Jack) .................................................. ... Physicist
Ph.D in Physics, Boston College -1970
M.S. in Physics, Boston College -1967
Physics Faculty, University of Nebraska at Omaha, 1969-2001
Peter Kiewit Distinguished Professor, 1981-1987
Excellence in Teaching Award, 1985
Burlington Northern Foundation Faculty Achievement Award, 1986
Consultant and Summer Employee, Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory,1975-1992, specializing in electromagnetic theory, EMP, microwave radiation, electron beams.
Worked on the Star Wars Defense System.
NASA’s Jove Initiative Program, 1991-1998, specializing in supergranules
on the surface of the sun.
Currently: Professor Emeritus of Physics, University of Nebraska at Omaha



RAGHAVAN, Dr. Ravi ............................ Chemical Engineer/Statistician
Ph.D in Chemical Engineering,Purdue University--1978
(specializing in Mathematical Modeling and Computer Simulation of Processes)
Leader of Unit Operations, Project "Aspen," M.I.T., 1979
Senior Systems Engineer, BF Goodrich, 1980 - 1997
Extensive training (Black Belt Six Sigma) in Applied Statistics.
Currently: President, Raghavan & Associates, Inc. -- Cleveland, Ohio.


REITER, Nicholas A. ........................................... SEM/EDS Technician
Associate Degree (2-yr.) in Applied Sciences--1983
(Terra Technical College, Fremont, Ohio)
Since1984 has worked in fields of engineering technology, vacuum technology, thin films and high-temperature semiconductor chemistry. Also works on research projects in association with the McMaster Foundation for Gravity Research.
Currently:Scientist, First Solar LLC -- Toledo, Ohio.


ROLL, Dr. William .................................................. ... Parapsychologist
Ph.D, Parapsychology, Lund University (Sweden)--1989
M.Litt, Oxford University (England)--1957
B.A., University of California at Berkeley--1949
Roll joined the staff of the Parapsychology Laboratory at Duke University in 1957, working under Dr. J.B. Rhine until 1964. He has authored more than 100 scientific papers, edited eleven volumes of Research in Para-psychology, and written three books. In 1996 he received the "Distinguished Career in Parapsychology" award from the Parapsychological Association and in 2002 was awarded the "Dinsdale Memorial Award" for his investigations of R.S.P.K.
Currently: Adjunct Professor of Parapsychology, State University of West Georgia -- Carrollton, GA.



SCHILD, Dr.Rudolph E. ................................. Astronomer/Astrophysicist

PhD in Astrophysics, University of Chicago--1966
M.S. in Physics, University of Chicago--1963


Previous positions include: Research Fellow, Mt. Wilson/Palomar
Observatories; Scientific Director, 60" Telescope Program, Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory; Lecturer , Harvard University.
Professional Societies: American Astronomical Society (1965)
and the International Astronomical Union (1969 ), where he
is a member of Commission 29 (Stellar Spectra), Commission
45 (Stellar Classification), and Commission 51 (Bioastronomy:
Search for Extraterrestrial Life).
Currently: Astronomer, Harvard-Smithsonian Center for
Astrophysics, Cambridge, Massachusetts USA.




STEARMAN, DR. ROBERT O. .............................. Aeronautical Engineer
Ph.D in Aeronautical Engineering, Cal Tech--1961
M.S. in Aeronautical Engineering, Cal Tech--1956
B.S. in Mechanical Engineering, Oklahoma State Univ.--1955
In addition to teaching both graduate and undergraduate courses in reliability, unsteady aerodynamics, random vibrations, aeroelasticity and structural dynamics since 1963, Professor Stearman has worked with the Boeing Co. as an Aerodynamist and as a Senior Analyst in the Mathematics and Physics Division of the Midwest Research Institute. His consulting experience includes work for the Air Force and several D.O.D.-funded programs at wind tunnel research facilities at NASA Ames and NASA Langley and at Air Force-owned AEDC facilities. Most of this work involved research on aeroelastic-related phenomena. Dr. Stearman has published multiple papers in refereed journals and is an active member of several professional societies, including the AIAA, ASA, SAE, ASEE and the EAA.
Currently: Bettie Margaret Smith Professor of Engineering, Aerospace Engineering and Engineering Mechanics Dept., University of Texas at Austin.


Previous Consultants:


LEVENGOOD, W.C. .................................................. ......... Biophysicist
M.S. in Biophysics, University of Michigan--1970
M.A. in Bioscience, Ball State University--1961
Research physicist at the Institute of Science and Technology and the Department of Natural Resources, University of Michigan, 1961-1970; Director of Biophysical Research for private-sector companies, 1970-1983. Has published 50+ papers, in professional scientific journals, including Nature and Science. Three papers (1994; 1995; 1999) present results of laboratory work on crop circle plants and soils.
Currently: pursuing multiple research interests at Pinelandia Biophysical Laboratory -- Grass Lakes, MI.

REYNOLDS, Dr. Robert C., Jr. .................... Geologist/Clay Mineralogist
Ph.D in Geology, Washington University--1955
B.A. in Geology, Lafayette College--1951
Asc.A. in Chemistry, Keystone Junior College--1949
Roebling Medal Recipient of the Mineralogical Society of America, 2000;
Frederick Hall Chair of Mineralogy, Dartmouth College, 1989-1997;
President, Clay Minerals Society, 1991-1992;
Chairman, Department of Earth Sciences, Dartmouth College, 1983-86;
Currently: Frederick Hall Professor of Geology and Mineralogy, Emeritus, Dartmouth College -- Hanover, NH.
Dr. Reynolds was a world-recognized expert in X-ray diffraction analysis of finely-dispersed layer compounds and, particularly, of clay minerals.




The above is the list of consultants and their qualifications who are or were involved with the BLT team.

[jamesc]

The Alien at Crabwood Farm House, by Eltjo H. Haselhoff.
Reproduced with kind permission from DCCCS.org
This article may be copied and distributed freely. A link to www.dcccs.org would be appreciated.

August 19th 2002

First Impressions
An interesting characteristic of crop circle formations is that each year the 'best' formation seems to be 'better' than the 'best' formation of the previous year. Obviously, 'better' and 'best' are subjective concepts, also depending on personal taste. Nevertheless, the recent Crabwood Farm House formation in the UK has blasted everyone away, even after the appearance of such impressive formations as last year's Milk Hill formation and 'The Face' of Chilbolton. A first reaction by the Dutch Centre for Crop Circle Studies.

Awesome! That is an adjective that certainly applies to the "Alien Face" formation that appeared at Crabwood Farm House in Witshire, England. A very crisp piece of work, at least seen from the air. Those who claim that crop circles are made by alien civilisations in order to attempt to communicate with us, seem to have a stronger case each year. The "Arecibo Replay" of 2001, which appeared at Chilbolton together with a pixelised portrait of a human(oid) already was a clear hint in that direction, this one is even better.

Compared with the Alien Face at Crabwood Farm House, the Chilbolton formations have degraded considerably in quality. Have a look at the Chilbolton Face (e.g., here) and compare it to this new masterpiece (which can be seen here). The first thing you notice, is that the new portrait has a much higher effective resolution (crispness). Moreover, the simple pictographic communication by means of a matrix with dots (composed of two prime numbers), has been replaced by a much more modern medium: a stylized Compact Disc,with a binary code.

It was obvious that this Compact Disc contained a message. I planned to try and decode it myself, but even before I started, an email from David Kingston notified me that the translation could already be found on the Internet:

"Beware the bearers of FALSE gifts & their BROKEN PROMISES.
Much PAIN but still time.
EELRIJUE.
There is GOOD out there.
We OPpose DECEPTION.
Conduit CLOSING [bell sound]"
(Check out Linda Moulton Howe's website to read all about the analysis.) The dots inside the circular imprint can be read along a spiral that runs from the inside towards the outer edge of the disc (exactly the way a compact disc works), and is deciphered in a straightforward manner by simply applying the 8 bit binary codes that describe the international ASCII character set as used in computers. This may seem like abracadabra to some of you, but representing characters from a computer keyboard by zeroes and ones (or standing and flattened crop) is less than Kindergarten stuff for any computer analyst (or almost any 13-year old kid with a PC).

It may be clear to you: I have a few serious concerns about this formation, and I am convinced it's a man-made hoax. The reasons are multifold:



1. Clearly, this formation is a continuation of last year's Chilbolton events. We actually expected this one. However, one thing is curious. The Chilbolton "Face" was composed of dots of varying sizes, made in a similar way as black and white news paper photographs are printed. The dots were arranged on a regular, rectangular grid (oriented at 45 degrees), and apparent gray scales were created by varying the sizes of the dots. The Crabwood formation is different. It is made out of horizontal lines, the width of which is modulated in order to create apparent gray scales. The image is similar to what you see on a TV screen, rather than on a black and white photograph in a news paper. The fundamental principle of photographic encoding is completely different! And that is very strange. Why didn't the alleged 'aliens' employ this more sophisticated method last year? Has their technology improved so much in such a short time?



2. Secondly, there is something very peculiar about the binary message. I have no problems with the fact that the aliens can speak and write English. Why not? They may have been the ones who actually taught us to speak their language (a long time ago). But why on earth (or better: why off earth) would they employ a binary encoding to spell out a message? If they can produce such high-quality graphical images in the fields, why didn't they simple write the message in the field? If they know the ASCII character set, they also know the characters! So why do they have to stylize the shape of a CD to give us a (most obvious) clue that the dots inside the circle are actually a binary code? It simply does not make sense at all.

3. I am very much aware of the fact that any speculation about alien life forms and their possible interactions with humans cannot be judged by human logic. Whatever is obvious or logical to us, humans, may be anything but logical or even completely incomprehensible to an intelligence that developed a million light years from here. For that reason, a plea such as "why don't the aliens create a crop circle in front of the White House" is not valid. Have you ever tried to explain to a mosquito that he should not sting you? There may be an extremely obvious thing to do (i.e., obvious for a mosquito) to explain such a thing to the little insect, but despite our much higher intelligence, mosquito logic cannot be understood by humans. However, this argument cannot be applied to my statements written above. The problem is exactly the opposite: the Crabwood formation is full of human logic! And that is exactly the reason why I believe it's an elaborate hoax. The classical 'Gray', straight out of Star Trek, the silly way of creating a 152 byte CD (containing about 0,2 millionth of the data on a real CD), an anonymous decoding engineer who comes up with the translation shortly afterwards... The formation says it all: We OPpose DECEPTION.

The most fascinating things about this crop formation, I think, are 1. the curious message, which is completely empty (of course you should beware of false gifts, deception etc., nothing new here) and 2. the strange way of combining capital and lowercase characters, particularly in the word "OPpose". And what does "EELRIJUE" mean? It may all be just a smart trick to deviate our attention from the obvious clues that someone is trying to pull our legs. The question remains: Why? Would anyone create such a time-consuming an elaborate hoax just to fool others? Was this formation made by Mel Gibson and friends, afraid that Signs will flop? There must be a reason, and probably a pretty good one too. I wonder if time will tell.

However, whoever made this formation, they did a great job, and that is another fact. My compliments!

Eltjo H. Haselhoff.


So his reasons that he thinks that this formation is hoaxed/man-made is basically from his "gut feelings" .He did not do any research on the crop or soil from the formation. Of course i respect his conclusions and coming from him it has to be but its a pity that no further tests where done on the crop and soil from this formation to show ANY anomalies. He has stated that his reasons for him reaching his conclusions on this formation being a possible hoax is based purely on his GUT FEELINGS outlined above.I THINK THAT FURTHER STUDY OF THE CROP AND SOIL WAS NEEDED IN SUCH A FORMATION.:cool:

[jamesc]

You keep reposting the same work over and over again. Its exactly the same work you just copy and paste from different websites and it is from the early 2000s.

MY RESPONSE JC.
(IT RELATERS TO THE FORMATION AND DEBATE ON HIS FINDINGS AND EXPERIMENTS AND ATTACKS FROM THAT PERIOD).:cool::rolleyes:

Also that other guy posted debunking evidence.

MY RESPONSE JC.
( Yes, on one scientific process in which the BOL experiments in their view could not be responsible for the MORE COMPLEX PARTS OF THE PATTERNS OF ANY GIVEN FORMATION.THEY THE SCIENTIFIC PEERS WHO ATTACK HIM COULD NOT FIND A MODEL THAT COULD EXPLAIN IF OR HOW THESE BOLS COULD BE RESPONSIBLE OR MAKE THE COMPLEX PARTS OF ANY GIVEN FORMATION AND BECAUSE OF THIS THEY CONDEMNED OR FOUND FAULT IN ALL HIS EXPERIMENTS OR FINDINGS BASED ON A TECHNOLOGY THEY COULD NOT UNDERSTAND.THE FACTS THAT THE BOLS COULD QUITE POSSIBLY BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CIRCULAR PARTS OF FORMATIONS WAS REGECTED ALSO OUT OF A NOT FINDING ANY EVIDENCE TO SUGGEST THAT THESE BOLS OF LIGHT MIGHT BE SO ADVANCED THAT THEY COULD PRODUCE THE MORE COMPLEX PARTS OF FORMATIONS.)

If you want to use Hasselhof you need to explain why he has done nothing since the debunking. Either the debunking is correct and he has accepted that or he has been silenced by some sort of treachery.

But if there is nothing from him since the debunking then maybe he is a fraud or cointelpro.

However he has said that the alien face circle is a hoax so something is going on.


I do copy and paste you are right but its because i feel it is relative to his debate.We are debating the results, procedures and findings that REFER to these findings and formations from the 2000S ARE WE NOT seems logical to me to post,copy or paste information directly from the PERIOD in which this formation and research ect is from.

On your point of Hasselhof not being a physicist anymore , how do you know he does not still have an interest?? So he no longer investigates but has a guitar web site.Does that in any way effect or dismiss his findings from when he put all of his energies into his research or experiments?? Does that change in any way his credibility that i suspect you are attacking with your points made on him no longer being a FULL TIME physicist???

I would take a good long look at the information below and see WHY it is so easy to debunk some one or their work if it does not fit the frames or modules of KNOWN TECHNOLOGY OR PROCEDURES then its debunked for those very reasons.

AS FAR AS I CAN SEE IT MATTERS NOT THAT HE HAS DECIDED TO WORK ELSE WERE, HIS PAST WORK STILL STANDS.




Thus the evidence will be available to all and the L-NEAT results confirmed by a number of "independent" sources. Following the scientific principle of replication, anyone will be able to do their own analysis to verify the results. If a procedure is repeated with all the same factors, the results, if valid, will also be replicable. This is exactly the test that all hoaxing techniques, demonstrated or proposed during the ‘closed file’ period, have failed.
1.
Dr Levengood has carried out every conceivable controlled experiment called for by researchers, hoaxers, and the evidence. Crops were planted and lodged by rolling or planking at various times during their growth cycle. The effects of geotropism and phototropism in the recovery process of downed plants was fully investigated. Experiments were carried out with controlled overfertilisation, etc.

No process proposed by any source and properly tested by controlled experiments was able to produce statistically-valid node-elongation in the field. However, Levengood was able to produce similar effects by exposing samples to microwave radiation in the laboratory. Freddy Silva has also proposed that sound waves should have similar capabilities, (see, for example, www.lovely.clara.net/crop_circles_sound.html).


Properly designed controlled experiments may possibly add ultra or infra sound to the list of factors capable of causing node elongation in the laboratory. However, there are no devices known to public science, let alone available to researchers or hoaxers, that can duplicate the pattern of node elongation which defines an authentic circle in the fields.


All procedures claimed by hoaxers up till now have been subjected to duplication under controlled conditions and have been conclusively proven to be unable to produce the authentic fingerprint. Whether skillful hoaxers are able to create or duplicate a complex pattern is a matter of debate, however it has been conclusively proven by controlled experiments that the procedures they claim to have used are unable to produce the node elongation patterns characteristic of authentic formations in the field.;)




There are sceptical scientists and there are proponents of the philosophy of negativism who call themselves sceptics. A sceptical scientist will examine the evidence. If they are not satisfied that the rigor of the experimental process was sufficient, then they will duplicate the procedure and verify it or demonstrate a source of error.


The L-NEAT results are amenable to replication, which confirms their validity. CSICOP, ‘the Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims Of the Paranormal’, has levied criticisms against Dr Levengood's experimental procedures, while never addressing his conclusive results. Their motto is "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."




However, there are established scientific protocols, which, if met, provide conclusive evidence. Levengood's research fulfills the highest criteria in this regard. The ‘Committee,’ in direct opposition to its claim for the "investigation" of such research, has never attempted to duplicate his results. In science, "investigation" means to subject the disputed results to the rigors of controlled experimentation where possible. It is possible with Dr. Levengood's work.

The "Committee" has failed to carry out its own mandate. The reason given for not dealing with his valid evidence directly is that "Dr Levengood did not carry out double-blind experiments." :rolleyes:


The protocols of scientific research determine when different experimental constructs are required. Dr Levengood's procedures simply do not call for double blind experiments. Such experiments are used when researcher bias could affect a judgmental outcome. For instance, they are often used in the testing of new medications and in cases where a subjective decision is required, such as the visual classification of a colour. ;)


They are neither required, nor even called for, when the process involves common, straightforward procedures with standard equipment such as a centimeter ruler, the markings of which are independent of the investigator's judgment. Furthermore, Steve Alexander, inadvertently, did provide a double-blind test, which Dr Levengood passed.;)


He produced a man-made circle in 1995 and waited to see the pronouncements of the experts. Dr Levengood's node analysis determined that there were no statistical differences between the formation plants and the controls, even though neither he nor Nancy Talbott, who was associated with him at the time, suspected Steve's intentions.:eek:

The rest of CSICOP's criticisms are equally unfounded. Chief among them is that the research is based on circular reasoning, no pun intended, since the node elongation criteria which are used to prove that the circles are genuine also provides the definition of an authentic circle. :D

This stems from the fact that the cause is currently unknown and cannot be duplicated, which is actually strong evidence in favour of the non-hoaxed nature of the circles. Many phenomena studied by science, such as the sub-atomic particle and the neutrino, are unable to be reproduced, yet their existence is also defined by the criteria through which they are recognised.:cool:


The case of this scientifically accepted ‘fact’ is a direct parallel of that involving the statistical node elongation criterion which characterizes an authentic circle. In addition, Levengood's research provides stronger valid evidence for the existence of non-hoaxed, authentic circles than mainstream science has for the astronomical phenomenon of ‘black holes,’ the "existence" of which is commonly taught in most science textbooks.:cool:

Having already addressed several major objections, there is no further need to continue discussing the validation of the L-NEAT process at this time.

During the more than a decade that Dr Levengood applied this technique, he analyzed circle and control samples from over 300 crop formations. Surprisingly, many were of a random, non-geometrical nature.

However, he also evaluated hundreds of others including many of the most famous ones from England. While he has not released a public list of those which proved authentic, Nancy Talbott is moving in that direction by publishing results of investigations which they did together in the past on the new BLT Inc. website, www.bltresearch.com.

While it has been proven that the techniques demonstrated by hoaxers are unable to cause significant node elongation in the field, upwards of 90% of the formations analyzed proved to be authentic. In the sense of a ‘closed file’ case, these results are now permanently indisputable.

Why then did we go through a destructive process of wild speculation, claim and counter-claim, producing crippling fragmentation, driving out sincere researchers, and destroying our own credibility? Two reasons come to mind. One being that we are guilty of the same kind of provincialism as our critics, being more concerned with public recognition than in sincerely cooperating to shed light on the mystery.

If this continues, then we do not deserve to find the truth. The other seems to be the result of confusion over the significance of the conclusive scientific research.

Since many researchers did not agree with Dr Levengood's hypothesis that the source of the changes is an ion plasma distorted by magnetic forces, not unlike a kind of plasma vortex, they rejected his work entirely, thus throwing the proverbial baby out with the bathwater. Levengood's research proves the validity of the various tissue changes, the fact that hoaxing techniques cannot produce them, and the fact that microwave radiation in the laboratory can replicate some of them.


That much is as conclusive as possible according to the highest levels of scientific protocol. Levengood's hypothesis that ion plasmas are the source of that effect is only learned speculation. His experiments conclusively prove the existence of these effects, but are not designed to provide any information relevant to the source of the energy which actually causes these changes.

Thus, his work cannot be used to favour one speculative source over another, and the recognition of his conclusive results is not directly linked to accepting his hypothesis about their source.

Fortunately, the conclusive L-NEAT data is quite simple to obtain. If one is not familiar with statistics, there are a number of websites, see for example:

http://vassun.vassar.edu/~lowry/VassarStats.html

or

http://www.physics.csbsju.edu/stats/Index.html


SOURCE LINK, http://www.greatdreams.com/crop/hoax/hoax.htm

"NOTHING IS MORE EASILY MANIPULATED THAN GENIUS THAT IS NOT STREET WISE".

[jamesc]

"But if there is nothing from him since the debunking then maybe he is a fraud or cointelpro."

Hasslehof quote below.

(DCCCS) -" My paper shows that the node lengthening in several crop circles corresponds perfectly to the effect that would be created by a ball of light, heating up the crop during the creation of the crop circle. This is not the case for a man-made formation...conclusions published in peer-reviewed scientific journals can not be simply dismissed as wild fantasy or pseudo-science.";):cool:


http://www.dcccs.org/scientific_studies_confirm__crop_circles_made_by__ balls_of_light_.htm

[elton]

"But if there is nothing from him since the debunking then maybe he is a fraud or cointelpro."

Hasslehof quote below.

(DCCCS) -" My paper shows that the node lengthening in several crop circles corresponds perfectly to the effect that would be created by a ball of light, heating up the crop during the creation of the crop circle. This is not the case for a man-made formation...conclusions published in peer-reviewed scientific journals can not be simply dismissed as wild fantasy or pseudo-science.";):cool:


http://www.dcccs.org/scientific_studies_confirm__crop_circles_made_by__ balls_of_light_.htm


Sorry but this was written before the debunking. All the stuff you quote from him was from about 2002. He has dissapeared from the scene since then.

Why???????????????

[jamesc]

Sorry but this was written before the debunking. All the stuff you quote from him was from about 2002. He has dissapeared from the scene since then.

Why???????????????


Sorry but you have failed to see the signifance or chose to ignore the below facts and reality.WHY????????


"conclusions published in peer-reviewed scientific journals can not be simply dismissed as wild fantasy or pseudo-science.";):cool:

As i said before 2000/2002 is of no significance here , these experiments and findings were done then and since we are debating his creditability,experiments and findings from that era then yes i will quote it. Tell me how the above is not relevant or important?? Do we dismiss all things that have happened merely because they happened in the past??

He CHOSE to either stop his work or engage less in it for his love of the guitar, is that so hard to understand.His choice, i see no anomalies in his decision here.

Just because he is less in the public eye does not hold weight to imply he is either a fake , gave up because of personal attacks and debunking to justify in discrediting him or cast doubt on his previous findings and his days of a physicist.:rolleyes: Again how do you know that he does not or has not followed this enigma , where is your proof that this is the case.He could just be observing it from a distance or he could be just not interested in it anymore.

[elton]

Sorry but you have failed to see the signifance or chose to ignore the below facts and reality.WHY????????


"conclusions published in peer-reviewed scientific journals can not be simply dismissed as wild fantasy or pseudo-science.";):cool:

As i said before 2000/2002 is of no significance here , these experiments and findings were done then and since we are debating his creditability,experiments and findings from that era then yes i will quote it. Tell me how the above is not relevant or important?? Do we dismiss all things that have happened merely because they happened in the past??

He CHOSE to either stop his work or engage less in it for his love of the guitar, is that so hard to understand.His choice, i see no anomalies in his decision here.

Just because he is less in the public eye does not hold weight to imply he is either a fake , gave up because of personal attacks and debunking to justify in discrediting him or cast doubt on his previous findings and his days of a physicist.:rolleyes: Again how do you know that he does not or has not followed this enigma , where is your proof that this is the case.He could just be observing it from a distance or he could be just not interested in it anymore.

Thewe is an easy way to find out. You said you would email him. Did you do that? I think he has been brainwashed or was cointelpro from the start.

Either way I would like to know what his views are now. Let me know if you did email him.

[jamesc]

A television program:rolleyes: was presented in 1999 showing some people known as "The Circlemakes" creating a crop circle formation. Later I received a copy of an e-mail concerning the event. The e-mail was composed by my "Code" friend, Gary, and sent to Freddie Silva, owner of The Crop Circlular web site. Freddie had written an article disputing the claims of The Discovery Channel's program. This is Gary's e-mail:

Subj: Crop Circle Hoaxing
Date: 8/15/99 3:45:10 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From: Gary
To: lovely@clara.co.uk

Crop Circular,

I read your article about the A&E/Discovery Channel programs on crop circles. (http://www.lovely.clara.net/tv_crop_circles.html). Very good analysis of the situation. Thought you might be interested in a letter I wrote to The Learning Channel (TLC, apparently a division of the Discovery Channel) regarding their program entitled something like "Exposing The Secrets Of Deception". After I emailed the letter I waited a week and no response was forthcoming. So I sent it again. After a couple days I received a reply from the Viewer Relations Dept. at TLC. They told me to call their Communications Department as they would be better suited to answer my questions. I will try to call them this week and I'll let you know what kind of a response I get. The letter I sent to them is pasted in below.

-Gary

___________________________

<< To: The Learning Channel (TLC)

Dear Program Director:

My name is Gary V. T. I'm a freelance writer. I am assembling information for a possible article to be published in a national magazine (FATE Magazine) as well as for BEYOND Magazine in the UK. The article, which will focus on the relationship between mainstream media and unusual phenomena such as UFOs and crop circles, will feature what I believe was a masterful bit of disinformation on the part of TLC in an attempt to deceive the American public regarding the crop circle phenomenon. I would like to give you the opportunity to respond, point-by-point, to the comments below:

1) The promo for the program seemed to emphasize the crop circle portion of the show, yet that part of the program was left until the very end. One can't help but ask if this was intentional with two main goals: (a) it was a typical "hook" to get viewers to watch the whole program and, more to the point, (b) it set the viewer up, psychologically, for the big finale. How? Simply by convincingly demonstrating hoax after hoax after hoax in an attempt to "condition" the viewer to believe what they would finally be shown regarding the crop circles, i.e., that they are unquestionably a scam of some kind. This was, in essence, a similar method used by the very hoaxers the program exposed, segment by segment, as it inched its way to the big finale: the crop circles.

2) The host exclaimed, (quote) "No one has been caught in the act of making one... (dramatic pause) ...until now". That statement, in itself, was a bold faced lie right off the bat. Your program DID NOT "catch" anyone making a crop circle. Your crew set up the entire demonstration with cameras rolling! No one was "caught" doing anything! The real truth is no one ever has been "caught" creating a crop circle (at least not that I'm aware of) and the producers of the program most certainly must know that. Otherwise some attempt would have been made to interview such culprits. No such interview was presented. Why?

3) The host claimed the hoaxers used (quote) "...rope, a wood plank and surveyor's tape, and nothing else." But there certainly appeared to be something else; there seemed to be a considerable amount of light on the field where they were working. This was attributed to natural moonlight. I don't think it was. The lighting appeared to encompass only the area in which the men were working. Still, if it was moonlight (which, again, I doubt), it is not likely that moonlight of such magnitude was available on each of the nights when the thousands of crop circles were formed over the past dozen years or so. Could your band of hoaxers have created their design in the pitch black darkness of night without the aid of the kind of lighting we saw in your program? I'd like to see that.

4) The crop design created by the hoaxers was noted to be similar to the huge formation which appeared near Stonehenge and which has been dubbed the "Triple Julia Set" because of it's mathematical properties. In fact, the comparison was not a fair one. The Triple Julia Set consisted of something like 192 circles and covered an area much larger than the design created by the TLC hoaxers. Furthermore, TLC proudly announced it took only six hours for their hoaxers to create their formation but neglected to mention that the Triple Julia Set (which was considerably larger) may have been created in fifteen minutes or less, according to a pilot who flew over that field. On his first pass over the field, he saw no design whatsoever. On his second pass over the field, some fifteen to twenty minutes later, the design was fully visible. [See corrective note below] An interview with that pilot would have been in order. However, no such interview was presented. Why?

5) TLC made no mention at all of the scientific analysis which has been done on the affected crop. The analysis has repeatedly shown anomalous molecular changes within the affected crop and suggests the crop was subjected to very short blasts of high energy heat; possibly microwave generated. One of the lab researchers is named Dr. Leavengood. I'm sure he would have been happy to contribute his findings to your program. An interview with him would have been in order. However no such interview was presented. Why?

6) TLC implied that the video of the unexplained balls of light circling above the field was a hoax but no evidence was provided to support that claim. Other video footage of such anomalous lights exists yet none was presented and there was no interview with the people who shot the footage. Why?

7) Not one crop circle researcher was allowed to counter any of the claims made by TLC. Why? Award winning investigative journalist, Linda Moulton Howe, is considered by many to be one of the world's leading crop circle researchers. She is always available and accessible for interview and comment. An interview with her would have been in order. No such interview was presented. Why?

To your credit, your propaganda program has worked very well. Since it aired once before, several months ago, I can't count the number of people I've talked to who saw it and are now convinced that all crop circles are hoaxes. I have no doubt TLC knew, going into this project, that it would work because you knew most people would never take the trouble to investigate the phenomenon any further. I also have no doubt you knew that most people tend to think, "Well, if it's on TLC, it must be true".

Along with your reply to these comments I would also like to know who owns TLC and the Discovery Channel. I would appreciate it if you would supply me with that information.

I respectfully await your response.

Sincerely,

Gary >>
http://www.greatdreams.com/crop/hoax/hoax.htm

[jamesc]

Thewe is an easy way to find out. You said you would email him. Did you do that? I think he has been brainwashed or was cointelpro from the start.

Either way I would like to know what his views are now. Let me know if you did email him.

There is even a better way why don't you e-mail him seeing as it is YOU who is making a big song and dance about him Its you who has the issues here , not me, i have read enough about him and his work to be happy with his conclusions but you do not, so its your problem to take that problem and your issues directly to him and deal with it.
:cool:
W

If you i do e-mail him will tell him that you believe him to be brain washed or a possible fake as you have suggested?? let me know if do:rolleyes:I WILL TELL YOU WHY I HAVE NOT E-MAILED HIM AS I SUGGESTED I WOULD , I CHANGED MY MIND, FOR THE REASONS STATED ABOVE.SORRY BUT IT HAPPENS , MAYBE JUST LIKE HIM HE CHOSE NOT TO TAKE THESE MATTERS ANY FURTHER.SORRY BUT PEOPLE DO HAVE THAT CHOICE I AM AFRAID , TO CHANGE THEIR MINDS THAT IS.


His views i would imagine will be the same based on his peer reviewed findings in 2000, THE FACT THE HAS not RECANTED THESE FINDINGS IS PROBABLY THE ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION ON WHAT HIS VIEWS ARE NOW,

[elton]

There is even a better way why don't you e-mail him seeing as it is YOU who is making a big song and dance about him Its you who has the issues here , not me, i have read enough about him and his work to be happy with his conclusions but you do not, so its your problem to take that problem and your issues directly to him and deal with it.
:cool:
W

If you i do e-mail him will tell him that you believe him to be brain washed or a possible fake as you have suggested?? let me know if do:rolleyes:I WILL TELL YOU WHY I HAVE NOT E-MAILED HIM AS I SUGGESTED I WOULD , I CHANGED MY MIND, FOR THE REASONS STATED ABOVE.SORRY BUT IT HAPPENS , MAYBE JUST LIKE HIM HE CHOSE NOT TO TAKE THESE MATTERS ANY FURTHER.SORRY BUT PEOPLE DO HAVE THAT CHOICE I AM AFRAID , TO CHANGE THEIR MINDS THAT IS.


His views i would imagine will be the same based on his peer reviewed findings in 2000, THE FACT THE HAS not RECANTED THESE FINDINGS IS PROBABLY THE ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION ON WHAT HIS VIEWS ARE NOW,

Its a simple answer. The reason I was asking you was because you said in an earlier post you were thinking of contacting him so I was simply asking if you had done that. Now you have confirmed that you didn't I am happy to contact him.

But there is something fishy about him. I can tell you believe him but in my view there is enough evidence to suspect he has been spooked by the ptb.

[elton]

Its a simple answer. The reason I was asking you was because you said in an earlier post you were thinking of contacting him so I was simply asking if you had done that. Now you have confirmed that you didn't I am happy to contact him.

But there is something fishy about him. I can tell you believe him but in my view there is enough evidence to suspect he has been spooked by the ptb.

I got a reply from Haselhoff. He gave up in 2001 due to insufficient funding. He wrote the two books on nodes but then the money dried up.

I still think he has been silenced. Its too strange that he just gave up like that, especially now that he lives in the USA. The spooks can keep an eye on him.

[jamesc]

I got a reply from Haselhoff. He gave up in 2001 due to insufficient funding. He wrote the two books on nodes but then the money dried up.

I still think he has been silenced. Its too strange that he just gave up like that, especially now that he lives in the USA. The spooks can keep an eye on him.



Well done for taking the time in contacting him.I had a big suspicion that MONEY and the lack of it for this kind of research and funding was responsible and is always going to be crucial in keeping people like him from continuing an ongoing investigation of these kinds.

Sad really but i suppose we all must ask the question that is it the mere fact that his research and findings was getting too near the truth of the possible real origins of some of these formations that it scared the fuck out of the PAB.One could not rule out skulduggery and clever debunking to silence him.

[jamesc]

Lucy Pringle reports “This event is especially noteworthy for several reasons; a pilot flying a light aircraft from Exeter to Thruxton flew over the field opposite Stonehenge at on the afternoon of Sunday 7 July with a passenger taking photographs, at which time the field opposite on the A303 was unmarked.

The pilot disembarked at Thruxton, completed the necessary landing and flight forms, refuelled and then got back into the same plane to fly back to Exeter. Imagine his surprise on when flying over the same field opposite Stonehenge some 40 - 50 minutes later he observed an enormous formation measuring 915.2 X 508 ft imprinted in the wheat below.

A gamekeeper and a guard at Stonehenge both confirmed that it had not been there that morning.
The formation was named the `Julia Set` as it represented a complex computer generated fractal image to the mathematicians; to musicians, a base clef, and to marine biologists the cross section of a nautilus.

Veteran researcher Colin Andrews tells me "The formation was first spotted from an aircraft at 6.15 PM. The pilot crossed over the field with a passenger (a medical doctor taking photographs) at 5.30pm”

There was nothing in the field at that time but “When the pilot returned at 6.15 PM he saw the formation in the field. “

"At about the same time (6:30 PM) his previous passenger drove past Stonehenge to see cars pulled off the side of the busy road."

"When I interviewed the Wiltshire Police I was told that the police emergency lines received several 999 calls just before 6.00 PM reporting a large number of vehicles pulled off the road causing a hazard. "

German researcher Andreas Mueller has also supplied some vital information as a result of when he visited the formation after its appearance . He wrote telling me that he had listened to a man he took to be the farmer telling a group of people that he had had farm workers working in the field mending the fence until approximately 17.30 hrs that day.

“Many strange things happened to people visiting this formation. http://www.lucypringle.co.uk/articles/fractal/, the most important being several reports that led me on to develop my research into hormone levels."

“This report has remained one of the most important in the history of the crop circle phenomenon as rarely do crop circles appear during day light hours."

“In April this spring of 2009, I had been giving a talk at Alton College in Hampshire. Shortly after that a friend telephoned me to say that a friend of hers had been in a taxi and had mentioned to the taxi driver that she had just been to a fascinating talk on Crop Circles. M, the taxi driver said “ I saw one appear opposite Stonehenge”.

Thinking she meant this year, my friend telephoned me but after making extensive enquiries, I realised that here was no circle anywhere near Stonehenge. I was given M’s telephone number and told her what I had heard. “O dear me, no, it was years ago.” I mentioned that only two formations had appeared close to or opposite Stonehenge, 2002 and 1996. “It was 1996 as my son who was in the army was on holiday and I was driving down to see him.”

“I eventually managed to arrange a mutually convenient date to meet M and get her story down on tape."

“M and Tim (her son's friend) were driving to Somerset in July 1996 to see her son who was in the army and driving down the hill towards Stonehenge she saw a lot of cars pulled in on the grass verge on the A303 opposite the stones. She mentioned that when people see maybe two cars or more pulled in and looking down into the field, other cars stop and gradually the traffic builds up and more and more cars draw in to have a look."

“As she drew nearer Tim said, "Mrs M there's a corn circle there".

“A car drew out and she managed to pull into the empty space and got out and joined the crowd of other people who were also watching what was happening. "There was an apparition, an isolated mist over it and as the circle was getting bigger the mist was rising above the circle. As the mist rose it got bigger and corn circle got bigger."

“There was a mist was about 2-3 feet off the ground and it was sort of spinning around and on the ground a circular shape was appearing which seemed to get bigger and bigger as simultaneously the mist get bigger and bigger and swirled faster."

"It was gradual and you are standing there and you are thinking what is going on and everyone is discussing it and more and more traffic is building up and everything and you just think that all the time you don't really realise what is happening and then you think then that's it and the thing is getting bigger and you are thinking of the beginning and end. But you don't realise what you are looking at. I didn’t understand what was happening."

"The mist wasn't anything from the ground as there was a clear space between the ground and the mist. There was no wind and no dust (she is an asthmatic). It was strangest thing I have ever seen. It was a calm summer’s day.”

“When I asked her how long she stayed looking at the event, she said it was hard to say, but maybe 20 minutes or so, but she couldn’t say as she had lost track of the time as she could not believe what she was seeing. The mist was still there when she left but whether the formation was still expanding she couldn't say."

“What colour was the mist? “Well it wasn’t brown or blue or pink; it wasn’t coming off the ground. And it didn’t go far up into the sky”.
Did you feel strange? “I felt My God what is going on, look what’s happening, are we going to see a leprechaun or the men for Mars or a Sputnik in a minute or something.”

“When I asked M which date it had appeared she thought a bit and then took my pad and wrote Sunday 7 July1996. She said she remembered this particularly as being a Sunday she was driving against the traffic."

“Why haven’t you heard about this before? There were so many people watching what was happening, not just me. Why didn’t the other people talk about it?”

“Indeed it was only by chance that I got to hear about it some thirteen years after it happened due to a passenger in M’s car who had been to my lecture!"

“M hadn’t mentioned it herself except to her family and friends."

“On leaving M, I was puzzled by the time element of approx 20 minutes. I could not budge M on this; she was adamant and insisted that that was what she had witnessed and nothing I could say would make change her mind. As all the other reliable reports I have had of people witnessing crop circles appearing, they have all quite independently mentioned that the circle took between 4 and 20 seconds to happen. So why had this one taken so long? Was it due to the fact the other circles had just been small single circles whereas this one was large and complex?"

“I made several enquiries and I understand that it is generally accepted that as a result of work conducted in the 1990’s, it is possible to calculate the time a formation takes to appear based on the size and number of circles. The method relates to the earth’s gravitational and magnetic fields. This predicts a velocity of the resulting vortex filament of some 10ft/sec.


The filament propagates not unlike a solar flare, repeatedly looping through the earth’s surface `embroidering` a gradually evolving pattern. To create the 151 circles in the 915.2 x 508 ft pattern would take of the order of 20-25 minutes to create."


“The descending force emits an electrical discharge which releases bubbles from the underground aquifers which rise up through the surface of the ground and patterns are formed. The anchor point of the force is always off centre."

This aspect as been observed many times over the years in certain complex crop circles.

“These patterns develop like `embroidery`, half about the ground and half under the ground in a sort of looping manner.

There is significantly less pressure inside than outside, therefore there is a sort of sucking motion from inside which bends or `sucks down` the crop at the base.

“The mist would appear to be as a result of cool water vapour rising from the aquifer (underground spring) beneath and behaves in a manner similar to what happens in the lab when electrical discharges are created through water and different patterns emerge on the surface.


Mist forms a little distance from the triggering point, which would support what occurred in this case, M could see the circle growing. It is when the hydrogen atoms re-combine that all this happens as it draws in ambient energy. This is where the excess energy appears from. As for height, it would be no higher than the radius of the formation created and the mist cloud would grow as the formation grew."

“However the more complex patterns have additional information contained in the sphere and who or what presses the button to make these is not within our present knowledge or understanding."



“Indeed not only does it appear that M was correct is every aspect but it also corroborates the report by the pilot, the guard at Stonehenge and the gamekeeper. A truly remarkable event.”





http://www.lucypringle.co.uk/photos/1996/uk1996ay.jpg


http://www.lucypringle.co.uk/photos/1996/uk1996ay2.jpg

http://www.lucypringle.co.uk/news/stonehenge-julia-set-eyewitness.shtml




"The pilot disembarked at Thruxton, completed the necessary landing and flight forms, refuelled and then got back into the same plane to fly back to Exeter. Imagine his surprise on when flying over the same field opposite Stonehenge some 40 - 50 minutes later he observed an enormous formation measuring 915.2 X 508 ft imprinted in the wheat below."

So we have a 40-50 mins time frame for this complex formation to form,mmm.

[presence]

"I made several enquiries and I understand that it is generally accepted that as a result of work conducted in the 1990’s, it is possible to calculate the time a formation takes to appear based on the size and number of circles. The method relates to the earth’s gravitational and magnetic fields. This predicts a velocity of the resulting vortex filament of some 10ft/sec."

From where did this information come?

[phildee3]

"I made several enquiries and I understand that it is generally accepted that as a result of work conducted in the 1990’s, it is possible to calculate the time a formation takes to appear based on the size and number of circles. The method relates to the earth’s gravitational and magnetic fields. This predicts a velocity of the resulting vortex filament of some 10ft/sec."

From where did this information come?



Dunno, -
you posted it! :rolleyes:

[phildee3]

Dunno, -
you posted it! :rolleyes:



Found it!
Lucy Pringle:
http://www.lucypringle.co.uk/news/stonehenge-julia-set-eyewitness.shtml

[presence]

Found it!
Lucy Pringle:
http://www.lucypringle.co.uk/news/stonehenge-julia-set-eyewitness.shtml
No I didn't. Jamesc posted it in the previous post

[presence]

Found it!
Lucy Pringle:
http://www.lucypringle.co.uk/news/stonehenge-julia-set-eyewitness.shtml
Yes, Lucy Pringle says:

“I made several enquiries and I understand that it is generally accepted that as a result of work conducted in the 1990’s, it is possible to calculate the time a formation takes to appear based on the size and number of circles. The method relates to the earth’s gravitational and magnetic fields. This predicts a velocity of the resulting vortex filament of some 10ft/sec. The filament propagates not unlike a solar flare, repeatedly looping through the earth’s surface `embroidering` a gradually evolving pattern.

I asked 'From where did this information come?' i.e. Who did the science? Lucy doesn't say. She refers only to 'work done in the '90s'.

Who did the work? I ask. Where's the science?

"It is generally accepted that..." as Lucy puts it, isn't good enough for me. I want the evidence. As usual, no one can give it.

[elton]

Yes, Lucy Pringle says:

“I made several enquiries and I understand that it is generally accepted that as a result of work conducted in the 1990’s, it is possible to calculate the time a formation takes to appear based on the size and number of circles. The method relates to the earth’s gravitational and magnetic fields. This predicts a velocity of the resulting vortex filament of some 10ft/sec. The filament propagates not unlike a solar flare, repeatedly looping through the earth’s surface `embroidering` a gradually evolving pattern.

I asked 'From where did this information come?' i.e. Who did the science? Lucy doesn't say. She refers only to 'work done in the '90s'.

Who did the work? I ask. Where's the science?

"It is generally accepted that..." as Lucy puts it, isn't good enough for me. I want the evidence. As usual, no one can give it.

Who needs science to prove crop circles? Its obvious that they were made by aliens. How could they be man made?

[jamesc]

Yes, Lucy Pringle says:

“I made several enquiries and I understand that it is generally accepted that as a result of work conducted in the 1990’s, it is possible to calculate the time a formation takes to appear based on the size and number of circles. The method relates to the earth’s gravitational and magnetic fields. This predicts a velocity of the resulting vortex filament of some 10ft/sec. The filament propagates not unlike a solar flare, repeatedly looping through the earth’s surface `embroidering` a gradually evolving pattern.

I asked 'From where did this information come?' i.e. Who did the science? Lucy doesn't say. She refers only to 'work done in the '90s'.

Who did the work? I ask. Where's the science?

"It is generally accepted that..." as Lucy puts it, isn't good enough for me. I want the evidence. As usual, no one can give it.




"The pilot disembarked at Thruxton, completed the necessary landing and flight forms, refuelled and then got back into the same plane to fly back to Exeter. Imagine his surprise on when flying over the same field opposite Stonehenge some 40 - 50 minutes later he observed an enormous formation measuring 915.2 X 508 ft imprinted in the wheat below."

So we have a 40-50 mins time frame for this complex formation to form,mmm


This is the main reason i posted that article to show the TIME FRAME involved for this massive formation to appear.There also must be reasonable time frames for various formations to appear especially ones like this one that are huge and contain so many circles.:cool:

[jamesc]

Yes, Lucy Pringle says:

“I made several enquiries and I understand that it is generally accepted that as a result of work conducted in the 1990’s, it is possible to calculate the time a formation takes to appear based on the size and number of circles. The method relates to the earth’s gravitational and magnetic fields. This predicts a velocity of the resulting vortex filament of some 10ft/sec. The filament propagates not unlike a solar flare, repeatedly looping through the earth’s surface `embroidering` a gradually evolving pattern.

I asked 'From where did this information come?' i.e. Who did the science? Lucy doesn't say. She refers only to 'work done in the '90s'.

Who did the work? I ask. Where's the science?

"It is generally accepted that..." as Lucy puts it, isn't good enough for me. I want the evidence. As usual, no one can give it.



Why don't you e-mail her and ask her how she came to these conclusions, her e-mail address, lucypringle@aol.com






From Lucy, her is here quote on her web site,


Over the years I have been researching the effects of electro-magnetic fields on living systems. This includes the physiological and psychological effects reported by people after visiting or being in the vicinity of a crop formation. Also animal behaviour, remote effects, luminosities, mechanical failures and audio effects. No detail such as unusual smell, taste, sound etc is too small or insignificant; it all adds up to making a complete picture of what is happening.

I am most grateful to everyone who takes the trouble to tell me about their experiences; it can be irksome and time consuming but without your wonderful help my research would not be able to expand and continue. I now have the largest database in the world relating to this area of research due to the kindness of very many people.

Please email me directly at: lucypringle@aol.com

[jamesc]

For anyone interested in Lucy Pringle's back ground here is some information on her,



Lucy Pringle was educated in England, France and Switzerland and has travelled widely. She is a Founder member of the Centre for Crop Circle Studies a Founder Member and Chairman of UNEX (Unexplained Phenomena Research Society).
She lectures at home and internationally, including the Darwin Society at Christ's College, Cambridge, the Scientific Exploration Society, The College of Psychic Studies and Alternatives, London. She also writes, appears on TV and broadcasts extensively on the crop circle phenomenon.

Her book Crop Circles, the Greatest Mystery of Modern Times, a highly illustrated and penetrating investigation into the subject, was published by Thorsons, Harper Collins in September 1999. Her most recent book: Crop Circles: Art in the Landscape is a widely acclaimed and stunningly beautiful anthology of the subject.

She works with scientists from all over the world and she has the UK's most comprehensive photographic crop circle library which may be seen at her web site.

Website: lucypringle.co.uk



"She works with scientists from all over the world", looking to see what scientists she has worked with but there is one she has laised with and that is Nancy Talbot of the BLT reserch team

This from her web site,

"I have been in touch with Nancy Talbot who tells that me she is trying to get the full report out a quickly as possible. It is a pity that this report in the Sunday Times was allowed to come out before the full report was available as many questions arise from this publication that need an urgent answer."

"Nancy Talbot told me that "that the clay-mineral study was carried out on surface soils from the Edmonton, Canada formation, that the technique utilized was x-ray diffraction to obtain a measure of crystallinity (known as the Kubler Index), that the circle formation samples showed changes in the Kubler Index, which indicate increased crystallinity, as compared to the controls, and that this finding was obtained as the 95% level of confidence. Further that a scientific paper is being submitted for publication and that, when the paper has been accepted, the entire study, with all the findings, will be posted on the BLT Research Team Inc.'s web-site" (www.bltresearch.com)."


source link, http://www.lucypringle.co.uk/articles/thiswas/

[presence]

For anyone interested in Lucy Pringle's back ground here is some information on her,



Lucy Pringle was educated in England, France and Switzerland and has travelled widely. She is a Founder member of the Centre for Crop Circle Studies a Founder Member and Chairman of UNEX (Unexplained Phenomena Research Society).
She lectures at home and internationally, including the Darwin Society at Christ's College, Cambridge, the Scientific Exploration Society, The College of Psychic Studies and Alternatives, London. She also writes, appears on TV and broadcasts extensively on the crop circle phenomenon.

Her book Crop Circles, the Greatest Mystery of Modern Times, a highly illustrated and penetrating investigation into the subject, was published by Thorsons, Harper Collins in September 1999. Her most recent book: Crop Circles: Art in the Landscape is a widely acclaimed and stunningly beautiful anthology of the subject.

She works with scientists from all over the world and she has the UK's most comprehensive photographic crop circle library which may be seen at her web site.

Website: lucypringle.co.uk



"She works with scientists from all over the world", looking to see what scientists she has worked with but there is one she has laised with and that is Nancy Talbot of the BLT reserch team

This from her web site,

"I have been in touch with Nancy Talbot who tells that me she is trying to get the full report out a quickly as possible. It is a pity that this report in the Sunday Times was allowed to come out before the full report was available as many questions arise from this publication that need an urgent answer."

"Nancy Talbot told me that "that the clay-mineral study was carried out on surface soils from the Edmonton, Canada formation, that the technique utilized was x-ray diffraction to obtain a measure of crystallinity (known as the Kubler Index), that the circle formation samples showed changes in the Kubler Index, which indicate increased crystallinity, as compared to the controls, and that this finding was obtained as the 95% level of confidence. Further that a scientific paper is being submitted for publication and that, when the paper has been accepted, the entire study, with all the findings, will be posted on the BLT Research Team Inc.'s web-site" (www.bltresearch.com)."


source link, http://www.lucypringle.co.uk/articles/thiswas/
Lucy refers to BLT research. Grossi and others debunk much of that research as 'pseudo scientific'. I've read Lucy's book. I've read the research. And it seems to me that what causes crop circles remains unknown.

But I'm still looking, hence the questions. As I've mentioned before, if it's something beyond the reach of current science, the answers may be a long way off yet.

[jamesc]

Lucy refers to BLT research. Grossi and others debunk much of that research as 'pseudo scientific'. I've read Lucy's book. I've read the research. And it seems to me that what causes crop circles remains unknown.

But I'm still looking, hence the questions. As I've mentioned before, if it's something beyond the reach of current science, the answers may be a long way off yet.

Well as you say, "unknown", that throws up a host of possibilities and i do believe after looking at both sides of the BLT argument that the BLT researchers did find anomalies in their findings its just a case of different opinions.

[jamesc]

BEHIND THE HOAXERS - PHYSICISTS, SCIENTISTS, STOMPERS
AND THE SECRET HISTORY OF CIRCLE FAKING.

This overly dramatic gauntlet throwing act was in response to both the
recently published 'plasma vortex' theories of Dr. Terence Meaden and the unexpected success of Circular Evidence by Colin Andrews and Pat Delgado. No-one had denied that some circles were being 'hoaxed', or created deliberately to be passed off as unexplained.

However, as nobody then had any idea what might constitute a 'scientific' method of investigation, this just had to be developed as investigators went along and the work being undertaken by Professor W.C. Levengood and Michael Chorost of Project Argus was a sincere attempt to apply the scientific method as far as possible.

The UK Skeptics and their parent organisation CSICOP had cleverly killed two birds with one swipe - the onus was passed to inexperienced but enthusiastic investigators to prove their case, and the 'hoax' explanation was promoted whenever possible.

That a so-called science-based group of academics and researchers should immediately dismiss the crop circle phenomenon with contempt and ridicule is not just hypocritical, it also exposed some of the hidden agenda underlying their activities.:

1) Demand scientific methodology is used and then ridicule any results presented as 'biased' or 'pseudoscientific'.

2) Belittle any scientist or academic appearing to move away from orthodoxy.

3) Demand peer review of any paper presented for publication (by definition, this is very hard to achieve in totally new areas of research).

4) Do not offer assistance of any kind.

5) Heavily and widely publicise that 'hoaxing' and 'fraud' are the only explanations for what is reported.

6) Do not engage in discussion. The organisation's associates should be called upon to provide the 'expert' viewpoint. The use of academic titles such as Doctor, Professor and Nobel Prize Winner adds 'credibility'.

7) Adopt a caring and protective attitude as the guardians of 'ordinary' people who could be 'duped' by unscrupulous 'tricksters' trying to make money out of them.

8) Encourage individuals who are seen to be sowing seeds of mistrust and confusion in target groups.

9) Counter any attacks against the organisation as soon as practicable.

Some very good points and truths raise there, easy to debunk something if you have the necessary scientific academics to back it up.


http://www.greatdreams.com/faking.htm

[elton]

BEHIND THE HOAXERS - PHYSICISTS, SCIENTISTS, STOMPERS
AND THE SECRET HISTORY OF CIRCLE FAKING.

This overly dramatic gauntlet throwing act was in response to both the
recently published 'plasma vortex' theories of Dr. Terence Meaden and the unexpected success of Circular Evidence by Colin Andrews and Pat Delgado. No-one had denied that some circles were being 'hoaxed', or created deliberately to be passed off as unexplained.

However, as nobody then had any idea what might constitute a 'scientific' method of investigation, this just had to be developed as investigators went along and the work being undertaken by Professor W.C. Levengood and Michael Chorost of Project Argus was a sincere attempt to apply the scientific method as far as possible.

The UK Skeptics and their parent organisation CSICOP had cleverly killed two birds with one swipe - the onus was passed to inexperienced but enthusiastic investigators to prove their case, and the 'hoax' explanation was promoted whenever possible.

That a so-called science-based group of academics and researchers should immediately dismiss the crop circle phenomenon with contempt and ridicule is not just hypocritical, it also exposed some of the hidden agenda underlying their activities.:

1) Demand scientific methodology is used and then ridicule any results presented as 'biased' or 'pseudoscientific'.

2) Belittle any scientist or academic appearing to move away from orthodoxy.

3) Demand peer review of any paper presented for publication (by definition, this is very hard to achieve in totally new areas of research).

4) Do not offer assistance of any kind.

5) Heavily and widely publicise that 'hoaxing' and 'fraud' are the only explanations for what is reported.

6) Do not engage in discussion. The organisation's associates should be called upon to provide the 'expert' viewpoint. The use of academic titles such as Doctor, Professor and Nobel Prize Winner adds 'credibility'.

7) Adopt a caring and protective attitude as the guardians of 'ordinary' people who could be 'duped' by unscrupulous 'tricksters' trying to make money out of them.

8) Encourage individuals who are seen to be sowing seeds of mistrust and confusion in target groups.

9) Counter any attacks against the organisation as soon as practicable.

Some very good points and truths raise there, easy to debunk something if you have the necessary scientific academics to back it up.


http://www.greatdreams.com/faking.htm

Who cares what they say. Its aliens and thats that. Humans cannot possibly make crop circles, especially that butterfly one in Holland.

[presence]

Who cares what they say. Its aliens and thats that. Humans cannot possibly make crop circles, especially that butterfly one in Holland.
Some humans might be cleverer than you think, or have technology you've never dreamt of.

[presence]

Well as you say, "unknown", that throws up a host of possibilities and i do believe after looking at both sides of the BLT argument that the BLT researchers did find anomalies in their findings its just a case of different opinions.
Yes, I take your point, and in your next post too.

It's a bit like in studying the possibility of life after death. I read one man's book, an ex-barrister, applying all the rules of evidence to the evidence for life after death, and concluding that it's proven beyond reasonable doubt. Then I read a book by a professor of psychology who goes through all the evidence and concludes that the case is not proven.

So, the question of life after death, like the question of possible ET involvement in crop circles, calls for more science and experimentation to settle the matter.

[jamesc]

Yes, I take your point, and in your next post too.

It's a bit like in studying the possibility of life after death. I read one man's book, an ex-barrister, applying all the rules of evidence to the evidence for life after death, and concluding that it's proven beyond reasonable doubt. Then I read a book by a professor of psychology who goes through all the evidence and concludes that the case is not proven.

So, the question of life after death, like the question of possible ET involvement in crop circles, calls for more science and experimentation to settle the matter.



Yes i agree with your points raised , i remember reading a book on astral projection by a man who was describing his experiences and who he came about discovering his techniques to astrally project at will.His first projection was when he suffered a knock to his head lost conciousness and awoke to find himself looking down on his sleeping body.

He then went on to describe his experiences of acute awareness, more profound than any dream state and believed that he had indeed entered another level or frequency of being. At the same time i have also read up on those who put this experience down to dreams, hallucinations or even temporal lobe anomalies causing hallucinations, this man had neither.

Yes more study is needed and all the possibilities i feel have to be left open just now.There also has been so much independent research, findings and personal experiences in both astral projection and crop formations that it would not surprise me one bit if both contain realities yet still to be discovered or understood correctly by the relevant scientific bodies. As they say time will tell.:)

[jamesc]

Who cares what they say. Its aliens and thats that. Humans cannot possibly make crop circles, especially that butterfly one in Holland.

I think my point was in highlighting the discrepancy's in some sceptics and debunkers selective scepticism tactics.I was merely pointing out the lack of a level playing field here in any serious conclusions , research findings and methods of attacking genuine unexplained formations.

When this is happening to debunk the complex and genuine unknown origins of some formations then it has to be countered and exposed, that is all i was doing.I do see your point of ,"who cares" but ALL information that relates to this subject and is important is always needed to see the whole and bigger picture.:cool:

[phildee3]

Lucy refers to BLT research. Grossi and others debunk much of that research as 'pseudo scientific'. I've read Lucy's book. I've read the research. And it seems to me that what causes crop circles remains unknown.

But I'm still looking, hence the questions. As I've mentioned before, if it's something beyond the reach of current science, the answers may be a long way off yet.



Perhaps we need to look "outside the box" of cause and effect.
Perhaps these are not premeditated creations at all

(with the exception of the "man-made" ones, of course).

[presence]

Perhaps we need to look "outside the box" of cause and effect.
Perhaps these are not premeditated creations at all

(with the exception of the "man-made" ones, of course).
Yes indeed! The concept of 'cause and effect' is part of the old paradigm of reality that evolved through Newtonian physics. The billiard-ball theory we might call it: reality consisting of 'things', each of which causally reacts with other 'things', and each 'thing' consisting of smaller 'things' causally reacting with other little 'things'.

Our brains seem set to use only billiard-ball thinking. Hence we ask inappropriate questions like 'What causes crop circles?'

Maybe billiard-ball thinking has it's place in some areas. And in other areas maybe not.

Maybe the concept of non-spacetime-holographic-entanglement might apply to explain crop circles, seeing them thus as a necessary manifestation of an underlying problem in the whole planet.

I saw a movie a few days ago. It was created from real events. The real events, shown in a documentary that came with the DVD, were these: In a small country town in the '60s, a bridge over the river Ohio collapsed, killing 46 people. For 13 months prior to the collapse, various residents saw UFOs and a strange winged creature they called 'Mothman'. After the collapse, the sightings stopped.

It occured to me, applying entanglement theory, that the appearances were manifestations of the inherent weaknesses in the bridge. This explanation escapes the otherwise billiard-ball thinking that would have it that for example some supernatural 'thing', or ETs 'visitors', were involved in the bridge collapse.

[stockstalker]

I'm just re-posting this from a separate thread, in case you happened to have skimmed over it and missed it:

It is mind-blowing what Barbara Marciniak wrote back in 1992 about crop circles in her book, Bringers of the Dawn: Teachings from the Pleiadians. Now, keep in mind that Barbara did not actually "write" this book. She recorded some channeling sessions and used her "intuition" to assemble bits and pieces from the sessions to "write" the book. Oddly enough, she found out that the bits and pieces made sense in the order in which her "intuition" assembled them (which involved picking up randomly leafs of her transcript scattered on the floor). Also, for non-believers, the author of the Chicken Soup for the Soul series did not come up with the title, which propelled him to fame and success. In a mediation session, he asked providence for help, and the word, "chicken soup" from a newsprint suddenly caught his attention.

Anyways, here is what Barbara had to say about crop circles back in 1992 (before crop circles became more complex and frequent). This is it! This is Barbara's explanation for the crop circles phenomenon:



Intelligence is beyond the spoken word and beyond the written word, for it is frequency that sometimes comes in geometric shapes. Pythagoras had a beginning grasp of this, but his geometry was not understood by others. Geometry is an evolved intelligence, a collection of experience that can communicate huge amounts of information. Actually, crop circles all over the planet are put there by sounds above human frequency to implement these language shapes. Many times, in the beginning, these shapes are circles. They will evolve into triangles, lines, and many other things. <= explains the increase in complexity seen after 1992!

The crop circles have been most prevalent in England and throughout Europe. However, they are also in the area previously known as the Soviet Union and in South America. They are even in the United States, although some people are doing a good job of pretending they are not there. We understand that some of your news broadcasters are planning upcoming shows about these crop circles. We will see how much they pretend they don't know about them. It is going to be interesting.

These geometric shapes are like hieroglyphs. The hieroglyphs and pictographs carved in stone on this planet are a similar generation of intelligence. In other words, if one were to read the hieroglyphs based on the Rosetta Stone, the hieroglyphs would communicate one thing. If one were able to remember the secret language of the priests, the hieroglyphs would tell another story. And if one were able to understand the language of the creator gods, they would say something entirely different.

The circles and shapes being put on Earth are here to assist you in holding and managing your frequency and having the courage to live your light. They make frequency information available in a very subtle way, and no one can figure them out yet. These shapes are all connected to one another, and if they were all written out simultaneously on some farmer's field, something would happen to them immediately. They are spaced from one continent to another, and they move a frequency band around the planet that will help activate Earth's gridwork. They will allow you not to feel so weird with what you know and to feel more comfortable with the changes in frequency as they occur.

This is just a little bit of what the crop circles do. They are quite interesting. Many of them are designed and constructed by what some call Ascended Masters. There is also a joke behind them. You must understand that some beings, as they become very evolved, develop a tremendous sense of humor. They see the humor in all things.

As we have said, geometric shapes and forms are carriers of intelligence. They are frequency waves that can be modulated and changed. The shapes coming onto Earth are like energy gates or energy glyphs. They hold intelligence and are being set up to eventually connect and make an intelligent gridwork around the planet. This gridwork will have a frequency that humanity can use to evolve.

The whole language is not on the planet at this time. The glyphs come onto Earth as a result of a certain evolvement of consciousness. They work with places that are vortex centers that are now drawing them in. Over the billions of years that Earth has been in orbit, these centers have been covered over and buried. Some have gone into dormancy, and many of them are being reawakened because the seal around the planet has been penetrated.

The crop circles are phenomenological expressions of consciousness. They come into your reality to show you that the reasoning mind cannot control all of the data, much as it would like to. These events occur to intersect with the coding of consciousness of all human beings. Whenever reality cannot be explained, a certain niche is opened within consciousness. The crop circles are completely beyond the logical mind. Therefore, they force the consensus view of reality to expand, since reality, as formerly designed, cannot house these events as a possibility. They are a trigger. They force reality to move beyond its own limitations.

There are a number of reasons for the existence of the crop circles. Basically, they exist to force reality to move-to get you feeling rather than thinking. Most who explore these circles think their way through the circles rather than feel their way through them. Great Britain is having a rash of them because, in general, the British have a very logically oriented consciousness. However, the land of the British Isles is imprinted with megalithic spirals and stone forms that have intensely imprinted the intuitive faculties of the inhabitants.

This phenomenon has no logic to it. It is forcing a logically oriented society to recognize something that makes no sense, and it is being done in a very playful and obvious way without creating a threat to anyone's view of reality. If ships were to land everywhere, people would get upset. When corn lies down in concentric circles and doesn't even break or die, no one really gets too upset. Do you understand how energies play with you? It is necessary to do certain things so that you can' get it and figure it out without having your circuits overloaded.

This language is being introduced onto the planet as a story-a glyph of information that holds a frequency to assist you in holding your own frequency. As you awaken, it is easy for others to read you and recognize you. You are monitored all of the time, because there are devices that monitor the evolution and location of consciousness. Once consciousness has reached a certain place, assistance is brought from the outside to establish other realms of that frequency.

In other words, say you open a restaurant, and it is a big hit. You run and maintain it and sell really good food. Then someone comes along and says, "How about franchising? Let's get you everywhere." These geometric shapes help you franchise the frequency by spreading it all over the planet and holding it. They bring you to a new level of attainment.


17 years after the book was published, the stuff contained in it is still mind-blowing!

[jamesc]

Bringers of the Dawn: Teachings from the Pleiadians Pt. 1 - YouTube


YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.


YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.


If anyone has not read this book Bringers of the Dawn: Teachings from the Pleiadians here is some information that relates to it.:cool:

[stockstalker]

Are crop circles some sort of magical seals/spells pointing to the sunken land of Atlantis from the direction of the UK?

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_xcUskQ-VRTI/SYRiMIN1B5I/AAAAAAAABCg/ksTv_MJnP4s/s1600/seaboard.gif

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_xcUskQ-VRTI/SYRi0hpSW1I/AAAAAAAABCo/ZAiBRgtBGPM/s1600/seaglobex.gif

(Ley line images courtesy of The Atlantean Conspiracy www.atlanteanconspiracy.com
Atlantis should lie somewhere along this ley line in the Atlantic Ocean, no?)

http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/2009/yatesbury2/phoenix-article2.jpg

http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/2009/yatesbury/Dragon-article4.jpg

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/imagenes_circultivos/circuloscultivos19_05.jpg

Barring the solar phenomenons, note how those crop circles from above all point West-ward towards the sunken land of Atlantis (from the UK).

As you all know, Atlantis became a society infiltrated with evil (Sauron), which is why it had to be destroyed... But Noah was forewarned of this and made preparations in advance...

http://energeticprocession.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/sauron.jpg

Is this what became of Atlantis (Sauron) after it was physically destroyed (sunken)?

http://www.joshilynjackson.com/mt/doomed2.jpghttp://occultview.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/occult-view-all-seeing-eye.gif

Are the minions of former (corrupted) Atlantis calling to the entrapped spirit of their former master (Sauron) by sending him/it spiritual nourishment via West-ward-oriented crop circles (from the direction of the UK), which obtain their energy source from the Earth's ley lines? What other master serves he, the Freemason, worshiping the all-seeing eye, than the metaphorical eye of Sauron?

http://www.tuckborough.net/images/one-ring.jpg

The One Ring of Power of Sauron is symbolic of the lost Atlantean technology (knowledge is power, remember?)

(Btw, I have no clue where the actual land of Atlantis lies. I'm only surmising that it lies somewhere along the ley line shown, connecting America to Europe. But remember Disney's Atlantis? In this animated movie, Atlantis was associated with Greenland, which is not very far off from our ley line!)

[sphere555]

Link to crop circles & Freemasonry/Satanism:

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=95596

[jamesc]

http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/68fcf00636ed.png



http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f2fb1bef5bc9.png


"In reality, the Arecibo dish is set within a mountain range in Puerto Rico in a natural bowl.
The dish measures a very impressive 1,000' across the diameter. It is the largest radio telescope in the world.

"The reason I mention all of this is because this particular glyph (directly below) was found in the same field as the "Arecibo Reply" glyph almost exactly one year prior... " (NOT MY QUOTES BUT RELEVANT I THINK).JC.

http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/957ae4b5d8b6.jpg

Here is a picture, in a binary representation of what was pulsed into space, once only, in a 23X73 (prime numbers for pattern recognition) pixelated illustration...



http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b8e3580f7cd9.jpg



Then we have this brilliant piece of information.JC

Crop circles (1 of 2) - YouTube

And yet more.JC

Crop circles (2 of 2) - YouTube


And finally this.JC


http://www.brainsturbator.com/img/aricebo_breakdown3.jpg


"The Arecibo Message was a broadcast into space way back in 1974 from the Arecibo Radio Telescope. 16Nov1974, to be precise. Dr. Frank Drake (the Drake Equation dude) wrote the message with the help of Carl Sagan and others. Its scope was to broadcast a message into the cosmos in binary code outlining the basics of our very being." (not my quote but true and relevant)JC.

1) The numbers one through ten.
2) The atomic numbers of the elements hydrogen, carbon, nitrogen, oxygen, and phosphorus, which make up deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA)
3) The formulas for the sugars and bases of the nucleotides and bases of our DNA
4) The number of nucleotides in our DNA and a graphic representation of the double helix of our DNA
5) A visual representation of a human being, including our number on our planet
6) A graphic of our solar system
7) A graphic of the Arecibo Radio Telescope dish from whence the broadcast was "televised", complete with dimensions of said dish

[jamesc]

In reality, the Arecibo dish is set within a mountain range in Puerto Rico in a natural bowl.
The dish measures a very impressive 1,000' across the diameter. It is the largest radio telescope in the world.

this particular glyph (directly below) was found in the same field as the "Arecibo Reply" glyph almost exactly one year prior...



http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/957ae4b5d8b6.jpg


"If you will take the time to compare the two, you will see that this glyph IS the "mechanism" that is linked in the bottom of the original message as a "reply"... meaning, it is what the crop circle creator has laid down as a representation of his own "telescope", if you will.

Here's the problem, it is also, OUR TELESCOPE... ":eek:

Here is a google image of Arecibo!

http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/1f50e329ade4.jpg


" I believe they may be more than men with boards and ropes to download google earth and look closely at the Arecibo Telescope in Puerto Rico and explore it for yourself.
The similarity is astounding, really!!!" :cool:

"And this is but one of the SEVEN or more differences sent in the reply that was 27 years in the making." :eek:

"Other differences worth exploring are the triple helix DNA, the TRIPLE population count and the TRIPLE planet inhabitation count... triple, triple, triple... ":eek:

"Funny, they say they inhabit our planet, mars and jupiter. I wonder if they could mean one of jupiter's moons?!" :cool:



The above quotes are not mine but again i included them as i thought they are again very relevant to the Arecibo Telescope in Puerto Rico ,JC.

[tothestars]

This one is huge O_O

Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ The Human Butterfly Crop Circle Evolution Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ - YouTube

Human Butterfly Crop Circle: Facts and Details (The Netherlands August 7th 2009). - YouTube

[jamesc]

This one is huge O_O

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIbcN-R5iY4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMxbBcK9r7Q

Stunning , i have the feeling that this symbol could mean TRANSFORMATION of the mind or a massive waking up to the realisation and understanding of other realities.The transformation from the caterpillar to butterfly could signify man's transformation to the truth vibrations that Icke has mentioned.:cool::)

[romas]

Bringers of the Dawn is great, but I don't want to agree that reasoning and mind can't undirstand crop circles, we have reasoning and mind for a reason ;)

She was able to record her book, thanks to our reasoning mind...

[the mark]

I'll be seeking out the origins of crop circles in person this April. Should be fun. :cool:

[jamesc]

http://www.davidicke.com/images/stories/January_2010/An-Awkward-Moment-in-the-Wheat-Field_photo_medium.jpg

:D:D:D:D:D;)

[hagbard_celine]

http://www.davidicke.com/images/stories/January_2010/An-Awkward-Moment-in-the-Wheat-Field_photo_medium.jpg

:D:D:D:D:D;)

Hilarious picture!:D

[jeisworth]

So you can't explain it. If you can't explain it how can you conclude that it was done by stompers?

easy, its a crude phalice.


doubt aliens are phalice worshipers

[hagbard_celine]

Have any of you seen this brilliant new documentary by Richard D Hall:)?: http://www.richplanet.net/detail.php?dbindex=207

I've had dealings with this John Lundberg myself. He once emailed me when I called him a disinformer and he was mod of the Jon Ronson forum.

[the mark]

Have any of you seen this brilliant new documentary by Richard D Hall:)?: http://www.richplanet.net/detail.php?dbindex=207

I'm just about to see it. Does that count?. :)

[hagbard_celine]

I'm just about to see it. Does that count?. :)

Of course.:) Hope you find it interesting.

[jamesc]

Will be watching this.:D

[the mark]

Of course.:) Hope you find it interesting.

Very interesting indeed h_c. Cheers. I try not to give too much thought to how much effort these disinformation agents put into their efforts. I preferred the direct approach of 'What On Earth'.... I've just watched that tonight...... Loved it!!.



Roll on April :)

[elton]

easy, its a crude phalice.


doubt aliens are phalice worshipers

Why not? For all you know the aliens may be phallic-shaped so maybe that was a picture of what they look like. Just like the one of that alien holding the CD.

[hagbard_celine]

Very interesting indeed h_c. Cheers. I try not to give too much thought to how much effort these disinformation agents put into their efforts. I preferred the direct approach of 'What On Earth'.... I've just watched that tonight...... Loved it!!.



Roll on April :)

Too right!:)

It pays not to ever underestimate the abilities of disinformers. I'm ashamed to admit that I fell for the Doug n' Dave Hoax when it first came out.:o:o

[who elsie]

Have any of you seen this brilliant new documentary by Richard D Hall:)?: http://www.richplanet.net/detail.php?dbindex=207

I've had dealings with this John Lundberg myself. He once emailed me when I called him a disinformer and he was mod of the Jon Ronson forum.

Thanks for that link Hagbard. Great documentary. It certainly clears up alot of questions about the man-made formations. We had some great debates on here last summer with some of the 'circle-maker' supporters, (I think Lungberg, himself was even here at one point) and whilst most of us accepted the fact that many CCs are manmade, the extent and the reasons for them being created was always far from clear.

As I've said a number of times to the likes of Lundberg and his pals, if they are man-made, it would be very easy to prove, so why don't they? When I accused him of only being interested in deception, he denied this and claimed that they were interested in 'scientific research' or something, but this video makes the reasons for their secrecy, deception and lack of proof of their involvement very clear indeed.

It's annoying, on the other hand, that it has taken this long for some of this info to be uncovered. The techniques used by Cayton & Hulse to determine manmade formations from 'genuine' ones is very basic and it just begs the question as to why other researchers have not analysed the formations in this way before. The research done on Lundberg by Halls was also very revealing and again, it begs the question why other CC researchers did not do this type of research on him before.

Cheers! :)

[hagbard_celine]

Thanks for that link Hagbard. Great documentary. It certainly clears up alot of questions about the man-made formations. We had some great debates on here last summer with some of the 'circle-maker' supporters, (I think Lungberg, himself was even here at one point) and whilst most of us accepted the fact that many CCs are manmade, the extent and the reasons for them being created was always far from clear.

As I've said a number of times to the likes of Lundberg and his pals, if they are man-made, it would be very easy to prove, so why don't they? When I accused him of only being interested in deception, he denied this and claimed that they were interested in 'scientific research' or something, but this video makes the reasons for their secrecy, deception and lack of proof of their involvement very clear indeed.

It's annoying, on the other hand, that it has taken this long for some of this info to be uncovered. The techniques used by Cayton & Hulse to determine manmade formations from 'genuine' ones is very basic and it just begs the question as to why other researchers have not analysed the formations in this way before. The research done on Lundberg by Halls was also very revealing and again, it begs the question why other CC researchers did not do this type of research on him before.

Cheers! :)

Glad you liked it, WE. It cast a lot of light on the subject.:):cool: I've seen Hulse and Cayton live, although not together, and they're good researchers.

A lot of their research methods have been used before by WC Leavengood and his team. They also said that the majority of CC's are Planker-made, but they presented slightly more optimistic stats; I think they reckoned 20 to 30% were non-Planker. It's interesting that the "irreducible complexity" arguement does not apply, according to Hulse and Cayton. The ones they claimed were non-Planker tended to be the simpler and more organic-looking designs.

Just because they're non-Planker doesn't mean they're not man-made. Secret govt technology could make them, but as I've said before on this thread the Secret Weapon Theory can't explain all the CC's any more than the 100% Planker Theory can.

[sygyt]

They are made by extra-terrestrials. It is an attempt to communicate.

Why don't they just send us an email?

[jamesc]

Why don't they just send us an email?

Who is us, maybe they have done so to the PAB.;) after all our technology must seem pretty caveman like to some off them eh.Would the PAB admit that they have received e-mails from UNTRACEABLE SOURCES.:eek::cool: Hence now the complexity in the symbology of some crop formations.

[elton]

Who is us, maybe they have done so to the PAB.;) after all our technology must seem pretty caveman like to some off them eh.Would the PAB admit that they have received e-mails from UNTRACEABLE SOURCES.:eek::cool: Hence now the complexity in the symbology of some crop formations.

I doubt that the aliens would have emails. They would need service providers and ISPs and Wifi and laptops. Because they dont have accounts with ISPs they have to use crop circles to communicate.

[hagbard_celine]

I doubt that the aliens would have emails. They would need service providers and ISPs and Wifi and laptops. Because they dont have accounts with ISPs they have to use crop circles to communicate.

If they can fly here from Zeta Reticuli then they can get to a fax machine surely!:D

Seriously I think Sygyt is anthropromphizing a bit. It's a common question: "Why don't they just write in plain English in the crop?" etc. It's impossible to predict how such a conscciousness would think, reason and communicate. There are interesting experiments done by Denise Hersing in trying to set up sommon communication with dolphins. It's incredibly hard, even though both of us are intelligent and use language' we just simply don't think the same way:eek::confused:.

[jamesc]

I doubt that the aliens would have emails. They would need service providers and ISPs and Wifi and laptops. Because they dont have accounts with ISPs they have to use crop circles to communicate.

Your doubt is your opinion.I see you have missed my point on why advanced intelligences would NOT have the technology to infiltrate or manipulate service providers.;) What reasons do you have that this is NOT the case.What makes you think that the possibility that advanced intelligences cannot posses advanced technology that could in some unknown way infiltrate or manipulate the world wide web.The fact that cell phones can now use the internet might be a clue but you can do the maths.;)

When you say "they use crop circles to communicate".[/QUOTE] do you still stand by your past quote that ALL crop formations are alien or was that quote like your above quote intended not as a serious contribution but merely as shit stirring.I refer you to your post on when you said that" evidence ect is not needed because it is a David ICKE forum and that's what makes it so AMUSING".Would you care to explain what you meant by this quote.:confused:

So i ask you again WHY are you on here if you hold these views, why do you post double talk if you are not on here with the sole intentions of shit stirring.And please do not take me for some kind of fool or try to portray me in that way by taking things or points i make out of context.:cool:

I LEAVE YOU WITH THIS;



Mandelbrot seT.

Initial image of a Mandelbrot set zoom sequence with continuously coloured environment

In mathematics the Mandelbrot set, named after Benoît Mandelbrot, is a set of points in the complex plane, the boundary of which forms a fractal. Mathematically the Mandelbrot set can be defined as the set of complex values of c for which the orbit of 0 under iteration of the complex quadratic polynomial zn+1 = zn2 + c remains bounded.[1] That is, a complex number, c, is in the Mandelbrot set if, when starting with z0 = 0 and applying the iteration repeatedly, the absolute value of zn never exceeds a certain number (that number depends on c) however large n gets.

For example, letting c = 1 gives the sequence 0, 1, 2, 5, 26,…, which tends to infinity. As this sequence is unbounded, 1 is not an element of the Mandelbrot set.
On the other hand, c = i (where i is defined as i² = -1) gives the sequence 0, i, (−1 + i), −i, (−1 + i), −i…, which is bounded and so i belongs to the Mandelbrot set.

When computed and graphed on the complex plane the Mandelbrot Set is seen to have an elaborate boundary which does not simplify at any given magnification. This qualifies the boundary as a fractal.

The Mandelbrot set has become popular outside mathematics both for its aesthetic appeal and for being a complicated structure arising from a simple definition, and is one of the most well-known examples of mathematical visualization. Benoît Mandelbrot and others worked hard to communicate this area of mathematics to the public.

Have possible advanced intelligences gone so much further than this, is it so far fetched.:cool:


"THE BIGGER THE LIE THEN MORE OF THE PEOPLE WILL BELIEVE IT BUT THE BIGGER THE TRUTH THEN THEY WILL SAY ITS TOO FAR FETCHED"

"THE EASIEST FORM OF MANIPULATION IS GENUS THAT IS NOT STREET WISE"

Nassim Haramein's Dual Torus animation.
Nassim Haramein&#39;s Dual Torus animation - YouTube

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1b/Animated_cycle.gif


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2f/Juliacycles1.png/300px-Juliacycles1.png


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6a/Mandel_rays.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c6/Mandelzoom.jpg/340px-Mandelzoom.jpg

Below a recent 2D views of the Mandelbrot Set which took the form to new creative levels, however even these pale in comparison to flying through the 3D realm of the Mandelbulb.
http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/48d0840a5c6e.jpg

[hirona]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7l0cJL7e4w


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkUnGXqWx3U


http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=4B5F90100CD7F1F3&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&v=i7l0cJL7e4w


If anyone has not read this book Bringers of the Dawn: Teachings from the Pleiadians here is some information that relates to it.:cool:


Thanks for posting. :)

I'd also recomand her first book "Earth: Pleiadian Keys to the Living Library"

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

Barbara Marciniak’s book was my first book about Pleiadians and their
messages.

[jamesc]

If they can fly here from Zeta Reticuli then they can get to a fax machine surely!:D

Seriously I think Sygyt is anthropromphizing a bit. It's a common question: "Why don't they just write in plain English in the crop?" etc. It's impossible to predict how such a conscciousness would think, reason and communicate. There are interesting experiments done by Denise Hersing in trying to set up sommon communication with dolphins. It's incredibly hard, even though both of us are intelligent and use language' we just simply don't think the same way:eek::confused:.

Very good points raised hagbard, your point on attempted communications with dolphins is a good analogy.On the fax machine:D point , who is to say that possible advanced intelligences do have the technology to manipulate the below;


Satellite Internet access.

Satellite Internet

Satellite Internet Characteristics
Medium Air
License ITU
Maximum download rate 1 Gbps
Maximum upload rate 10 Mbps
Average download rate 1 Mbps
Average upload rate 256 Kbps
Latency (one-way) Up to 900 ms
Frequency bands L, C, Ku, Ka
Coverage 100 - 6,000km
Additional services VoIP, SDTV, HDTV, VOD, Datacast
Average CPE price 300€ (modem + satellite dish)


"Satellite Internet services are used in locations where terrestrial Internet access is not available, and also for users who move frequently".:D

You would think that this possibility was shown by the Decepticons in the film "Transformers2", when they manipulated and controlled Satellite Internet access.:rolleyes:


http://www.canmag.com/images/front/transformers/revenge1.jpg


http://www.walyou.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/all-spark-hub.jpg
:D

[jamesc]

If they can fly here from Zeta Reticuli then they can get to a fax machine surely!:D

Seriously I think Sygyt is anthropromphizing a bit. It's a common question: "Why don't they just write in plain English in the crop?" etc. It's impossible to predict how such a conscciousness would think, reason and communicate. There are interesting experiments done by Denise Hersing in trying to set up sommon communication with dolphins. It's incredibly hard, even though both of us are intelligent and use language' we just simply don't think the same way:eek::confused:.




Thought you might like this article on Dolphins harbard. Interesting developments.:)


Dolphins have been declared the world’s second most intelligent creatures after humans, with scientists suggesting they are so bright that they should be treated as “non-human persons”. :eek::D

Studies into dolphin behaviour have highlighted how similar their communications are to those of humans and that they are brighter than chimpanzees. These have been backed up by anatomical research showing that dolphin brains have many key features associated with high intelligence.

The researchers argue that their work shows it is morally unacceptable to keep such intelligent animals in amusement parks or to kill them for food or by accident when fishing. Some 300,000 whales, dolphins and porpoises die in this way each year.:mad:



http://www.timesonline.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00666/News_666833a.jpg :)

[hagbard_celine]

Very good points raised hagbard, your point on attempted communications with dolphins is a good analogy.On the fax machine:D point , who is to say that possible advanced intelligences do have the technology to manipulate the below;


Satellite Internet access.

Satellite Internet

Satellite Internet Characteristics
Medium Air
License ITU
Maximum download rate 1 Gbps
Maximum upload rate 10 Mbps
Average download rate 1 Mbps
Average upload rate 256 Kbps
Latency (one-way) Up to 900 ms
Frequency bands L, C, Ku, Ka
Coverage 100 - 6,000km
Additional services VoIP, SDTV, HDTV, VOD, Datacast
Average CPE price 300€ (modem + satellite dish)


"Satellite Internet services are used in locations where terrestrial Internet access is not available, and also for users who move frequently".:D

You would think that this possibility was shown by the Decepticons in the film "Transformers2", when they manipulated and controlled Satellite Internet access.:rolleyes:


I remember from Independence Day (although I try to remember as little as possible from that film:o:rolleyes:) the aliens use human computers to take over the world.

There can be no doubt that these entities have the ability to do that, but would they? Would it occur to them as obviously as it would us.

[hagbard_celine]

Thought you might like this article on Dolphins harbard. Interesting developments.:)


Dolphins have been declared the world’s second most intelligent creatures after humans, with scientists suggesting they are so bright that they should be treated as “non-human persons”. :eek::D

Studies into dolphin behaviour have highlighted how similar their communications are to those of humans and that they are brighter than chimpanzees. These have been backed up by anatomical research showing that dolphin brains have many key features associated with high intelligence.

The researchers argue that their work shows it is morally unacceptable to keep such intelligent animals in amusement parks or to kill them for food or by accident when fishing. Some 300,000 whales, dolphins and porpoises die in this way each year.:mad:



http://www.timesonline.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00666/News_666833a.jpg :)

Thanks, James. Poor dolphins dying like that!:(:(:(

[jamesc]

I remember from Independence Day (although I try to remember as little as possible from that film:o:rolleyes:) the aliens use human computers to take over the world.

There can be no doubt that these entities have the ability to do that, but would they? Would it occur to them as obviously as it would us.

Good point on the question "would they" or even them having the perceptions to considered it.Yes there can be no doubt that intelligent highly advanced intelligences would have the technology to do so.Sadly the real question is would the PAB through their servants the MSM tell us about it, that they have be contacted by superior technologically advanced ET intelligences through manipulations of the cyber net or inter net.Maybe the ET intelligences are using this cyber net as reminders to the PABs who really is watching them.:eek::cool:

Red tape would suffice on any revelations from the PAB but saying that i still feel that the PAB are not the ones in real control of any kind of disclosure contact and maybe just maybe the ET intelligences still feel the time is not right yet.Time will tell as they say, take care.

[hagbard_celine]

Good point on the question "would they" or even them having the perceptions to considered it.Yes there can be no doubt that intelligent highly advanced intelligences would have the technology to do so.Sadly the real question is would the PAB through their servants the MSM tell us about it, that they have be contacted by superior technologically advanced ET intelligences through manipulations of the cyber net or inter net.Maybe the ET intelligences are using this cyber net as reminders to the PABs who really is watching them.:eek::cool:

Red tape would suffice on any revelations from the PAB but saying that i still feel that the PAB are not the ones in real control of any kind of disclosure contact and maybe just maybe the ET intelligences still feel the time is not right yet.Time will tell as they say, take care.

It seems unlikely that the ET's would not just disclose themselves if they felt like it; how hard would it be. Either their alien thoughts and feelings don't run along those lines, or they have done a deal with the Illuminati to collaborate in their own secrecy.

[phildee3]

It seems unlikely that the ET's would not just disclose themselves if they felt like it; how hard would it be. Either their alien thoughts and feelings don't run along those lines, or they have done a deal with the Illuminati to collaborate in their own secrecy.



It's the former.
They are here - period.
Some of us are sensitive enough to perceive them, some are not.
They would no longer be what they are if they changed their frequency in order to be perceived.

[jamesc]

UFO alert: police officer sees aliens at crop circle.
A police officer contacted British UFO experts after seeing three aliens examining a freshly made crop circle near Avebury, Wiltshire.:D:


Many crop circles, including this one in May 2009, have appeared near Silbury Hill, Wiltshire Photo: APEX
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01412/crop_1412784c.jpg



The sergeant, who has not been named, was off-duty when he saw the figures standing in a field near Silbury Hill, and stopped his car to investigate.
However, as he approached the 'men' – all over 6ft tall with blond hair – he heard "the sound of static electricity" and the trio ran away ''faster than any man he had ever seen''.


The officer returned to his home in Marlborough, Wiltshire, and contacted paranormal experts and told them he had spotted a UFO.
Wiltshire Police has refused to comment on the incident, saying it is a ''personal matter'' for the officer involved.:rolleyes:

Crop circle researcher Andrew Russell, who is investigating the bizarre sighting on behalf of the officer, described the moment his sighting was made.
He said: ''At first he thought they were forensic officers as they were dressed in white coveralls. He stopped his car and approached the field.

''The figures were all over 6ft and had blond hair. They seemed to be inspecting the crop. When he got to the edge of the field he heard what he believed to be a sound not dissimilar to static electricity.
''This crackling noise seemed to be running through the field and the crop was moving gently, close to where the noise was.

''He shouted to the figures who, at first, ignored him, not glancing at him. When he tried to enter the field they looked up and began running.
''He said; 'They ran faster than any man I have ever seen. I'm no slouch but they were moving so fast. I looked away for a second and when I looked back they were gone.

''I then got scared. The noise was still around but I got an uneasy feeling and headed for the car. For the rest of the day I had a pounding headache I couldn't shift.''
The bizarre incident occurred on the morning of July 6 this year as the police officer was driving.
The officer claims the three figures were examining a crop circle, which had appeared several days earlier, when he stopped his car and began walking towards them.

However, the mysterious beings disappeared when he ''looked away for a second'' and he contacted UFO experts after witnessing other paranormal activity.
A spokesman for Wiltshire Police said: ''The police officer was apparently off duty when this happened so we have no comment to make because it is a personal not a police matter.''

Crop circle expert Colin Andrews, who investigated the incident alongside Andrew Russell, said he is ''convinced'' by the police officer's story.
He said: ''I am quite convinced the officer had an experience that day and one that we have not fully explored.

''I think with the unusual movement of the being and the poltergeist experiences there is too much additional information to say that is something in nothing.'':cool:


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/ufo/6394256/UFO-alert-police-officer-sees-aliens-at-crop-circle.html

[jamesc]

Bizarre speculation circles weather bureau
From: The Daily Telegraph April 02, 2010 12:01am 40 comments
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Source: The Daily Telegraph
THEY are the digital-age equivalent of crop circles - mysterious patterns appearing on the Bureau of Meteorology's national radar system without any explanation.


And the random images described as red stars, rings of fire and white doughnuts are sending online conspiracy websites into meltdown.

The anomalies first began on January 15 when an "iced doughnut" appeared over Kalgoorlie in WA.

Satellite imagery showed there was no cloud over the area at the time to explain the unusual phenomenon but farmers' online comments claimed it was "unusually hot" all day.

It was followed by a bizarre red star over Broome on January 22 and a sinister spiral burst over Melbourne described by amateur radar buffs as the Ring Of Fire Fault.


RELATED COVERAGE
ATRAD wins $8.6m radar contract Adelaide Now, 17 Mar 2010
Severe thunderstorm warning Courier Mail, 15 Dec 2009
Here it comes, slow as a wet week Adelaide Now, 7 Dec 2009
Storm warning cancelled Courier Mail, 2 Dec 2009
Weather almost as popular as sex Courier Mail, 19 Nov 2009

The Bureau, which did not respond to repeated requests for comment, has acknowledged the anomalies on its popular website.

It has since posted a disclaimer above the national loop feed putting the images down to "occasional interference to the radar data".

"The Bureau is currently investigating ways to reduce these interferences," the disclaimer said.

Conspiracy websites, however, have lit up with dozens of breathless theories behind the strange anomalies from alien involvement, secret military testing to government weather modification.

One theory gaining traction online is the belief the US military has expanded its High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program.

Based at a remote research station in Alaska, the HAARP project involves shooting extremely high frequency radar bursts into the upper reaches of the atmosphere to see what happens after particles of the ionosphere are temporarily excited.

Ostensibly the research is to study the effects of solar flares on radio communications and improve missile detection and navigation systems.

But, unlike the failed cloud seeding experiments of yesteryear, conspiracy theorists claim HAARP is engaged in a sophisticated form of weather modification and that testing is also being done from a secret facility near Exmouth in Western Australia.

UK electrical engineer and crop circle expert Colin Andrews said Australians deserve an explanation.

Until (the Bureau of Meteorology) make a formal and complete response to all the various strange patterns, one can only speculate about what is taking place," he said.

Mr Andrews urged people concerned by the bizarre radar symbols and strange weather patterns to contact the Bureau of Meteorology or a government representative.

Another theory suggests the anomalies appear before major weather events such as cyclones Olga and Paul and the violent storms which hit Victoria in recent weeks.

Others argue objects in the atmosphere emitting powerful radiation could be behind the mystery.

40 comments on this story



http://resources0.news.com.au/images/2010/04/02/1225848/786276-weather-patterns.jpg


Alien Communication?
09-Apr-2010

http://www.unknowncountry.com/img/news/062009/wave.jpg

Recent instances of radar interference over Australia remain unexplained, but are believed by the Australian Bureau of Meteorology to have an atmospheric explanation. Episodes of interference have taken place in the past, but there have been numerous instances since January 15, and the Bureau's refusal to explain them has led to speculation that they could represent classified military activity or even some sort of alien communication.


The first anomaly appeared on January 15 over Kalgoorlie in Western Australia, on a cloudless day during which there were no observable atmospheric anomalies, according to local farmers. The only unusual factor noted was that it was hotter than normal.

A red star over Broome on January 22 and a spiral over Melbourne that looked something like a ring of fire. Crop circle investigator Colin Andrews has said that the public deserves an explanation, and the possibility has been raised that the interference is being generated by the US HAARP facility located in Alaska,

but if the interference isn't an atmospheric anomaly it would seem more likely that it is being generated by energy sources in the lower atmosphere that the radar waves pass through, rather than HAARP, which affects the ionosphere . The origin of such an energy source remains unknown.:eek::cool:

http://www.unknowncountry.com/news/?id=8274

[silvabak]

I remember from Independence Day (although I try to remember as little as possible from that film:o:rolleyes:) the aliens use human computers to take over the world.

There can be no doubt that these entities have the ability to do that, but would they? Would it occur to them as obviously as it would us.


something like that i tend to think, nah they could of done that at anypoint and prob would of by now...

Originally Posted by jamesc View Post
Thought you might like this article on Dolphins harbard. Interesting developments.


Dolphins have been declared the world’s second most intelligent creatures after humans, with scientists suggesting they are so bright that they should be treated as “non-human persons”.

Studies into dolphin behaviour have highlighted how similar their communications are to those of humans and that they are brighter than chimpanzees. These have been backed up by anatomical research showing that dolphin brains have many key features associated with high intelligence.

The researchers argue that their work shows it is morally unacceptable to keep such intelligent animals in amusement parks or to kill them for food or by accident when fishing. Some 300,000 whales, dolphins and porpoises die in this way each year.


then i see this an think they could be using us like we use dolphins/animals ect dont invade an wipe em all out just bits at time inventing new ways to kill an controll....till eventually they all gone or cloned lol


fuck im drunk...all good points tho :) :) :p

[jamesc]

It's Crop Circle Time!!!

Well the first one was seen last on the 14th April 2009, looks like they are a day late, wonder what they will bring this year.:cool::)


Here are some from May/June last year.


Crop Circles 2009 (May - June) - YouTube

[hagbard_celine]

I can't wait to see what delights we have in store this year!:)

[phildee3]

It's Crop Circle Time!!!



Here's the first.
Not a good omen.
I think there will be much confusion this year.

http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/inter2010/worldrumours2010.html

[jamesc]

Here's the first.
Not a good omen.
I think there will be much confusion this year.

http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/inter2010/worldrumours2010.html

I would not worry too much about the circle makers as there is experienced researchers who can spot a man made one easily or with investigation for the tell tale signs.:)

[phildee3]

I would not worry too much about the circle makers as there is experienced researchers who can spot a man made one easily or with investigation for the tell tale signs.:)

Not any more, methinks!
That's why I say "confusion."
There are more and more circle-makers cropping up ('scuse the pun).
The phenomenon is a good cover for the testing and development of very sophisticated, human, remote technologies.
At the same time, the non-human forces that are responsible for some of them are getting really good at making them look like plankers!

Then there's the phenomenon of non-human forces influencing actual plankers while they are at work...

The lines between "made-made" and "genuine" are getting increasingly blurred as the line between "human" and "non-human" is dissolving, - as we awaken to the reality that we are all one anyway!


Those who remain stuck in the "real vs hoax" paradigm are completely out of touch with the state of the art!

[jamesc]

Not any more, methinks!
That's why I say "confusion."
There are more and more circle-makers cropping up ('scuse the pun).
The phenomenon is a good cover for the testing and development of very sophisticated, human, remote technologies.
At the same time, the non-human forces that are responsible for some of them are getting really good at making them look like plankers!

Then there's the phenomenon of non-human forces influencing actual plankers while they are at work...

The lines between "made-made" and "genuine" are getting increasingly blurred as the line between "human" and "non-human" is dissolving, - as we awaken to the reality that we are all one anyway!


Those who remain stuck in the "real vs hoax" paradigm are completely out of touch with the state of the art!



So we have four possibility's for the origins of any formation;
ORIGINS;
1. for the testing and development of very sophisticated, human, remote technologies.
2. non-human forces that are responsible for some of them are getting really good at making them look like plankers!
3.the phenomenon of non-human forces influencing actual plankers while they are at work.
4. Hoaxes.


Then we have very experienced crop researchers who i believe are very good at exposing the man made ones, they know what to look for.If the origins of number 1 and 3 from the above list are included in any finale analysis by researchers then we have a new problem of identifying genuine unknown origins of these kind of formations from hoaxes, is that what you are implying, that even though a formation after careful investigation is considered to be from an unknown origin then it could also be from the whole of the 4 origins listed above. Interesting none the less, i am not knocking your possible explanations for crop formations just curious as always.:cool:

[phildee3]

So we have four possibility's for the origins of any formation;
ORIGINS;
1. for the testing and development of very sophisticated, human, remote technologies.
2. non-human forces that are responsible for some of them are getting really good at making them look like plankers!
3.the phenomenon of non-human forces influencing actual plankers while they are at work.
4. Hoaxes.



All put into four nice, neat, little boxes...

You've completely missed what I'm saying!
The penomenon can only be comprehended by using a holistic approach. Using a reductionist one only leads to more confusion.



Then we have very experienced crop researchers who i believe are very good at exposing the man made ones



No. They are very good at identifying manually made ones (as opposed to remotely made ones)!




...then we have a new problem of identifying genuine unknown origins of these kind of formations from hoaxes, is that what you are implying,



I'm implying no such thing!
Classifying, and identifying arbitrary classes, is the problem of those who haven't "got it" yet.

Read my previous message again.

[jamesc]

All put into four nice, neat, little boxes...

You've completely missed what I'm saying!
The penomenon can only be comprehended by using a holistic approach. Using a reductionist one only leads to more confusion.



No. They are very good at identifying manually made ones (as opposed to remotely made ones)!




I'm implying no such thing!
Classifying, and identifying arbitrary classes, is the problem of those who haven't "got it" yet.

Read my previous message again.



With respect i know where you are coming from but man made ones have the tell tale signs that experienced researchers can identify.If what you are saying is that a whole new approach to investigating these formations is needed then i would advocate it too.My neat little boxes was a metaphor for the possible origins for some of the more complex crop formations, the possible origins of some of the highly complex formations has certain possible origins be it ET, secret government teck, unknown natural earth intelligences.

[phildee3]

With respect i know where you are coming from but man made ones have the tell tale signs that experienced researchers can identify.



Which are...?



If what you are saying is that a whole new approach to investigating these formations is needed then i would advocate it too.



I'm not really saying that since some people have had the "new approach" all along.



...the possible origins of some of the highly complex formations has certain possible origins be it ET, secret government teck, unknown natural earth intelligences.



Plankers too. In fact complexity is an indicator of a "hoax."

[jamesc]

Which are...?

Stem node breakage, precision of detail, no soil change within the formation, no elongated stem nodes.

I'm not really saying that since some people have had the "new approach" all along.
True there are a few "new approaches" so what ones do you think are valid in their new approaches.


Plankers too. In fact complexity is an indicator of a "hoax."

Or genuine also, the time frames that would be needed to complete the very large and complex formations and no stem damage would also be a big factor too i think, also stem elongation.:cool:

[phildee3]

Stem node breakage, precision of detail, no soil change within the formation, no elongated stem nodes.


Don't you think that non-human entities are capable of producing formations with these characteristics,
and that some "michevious" ones could be doing just that?

Or genuine also, the time frames that would be needed to complete the very large and complex formations and no stem damage would also be a big factor too i think, also stem elongation.:cool:

Don't you think that humans could well have advanced, classified technologies that are capable of producing these "genuine" ones?

[gods sun]

www.cropcirclewisdom.com for live reports and general investigations.

[jamesc]

Don't you think that non-human entities are capable of producing formations with these characteristics,
and that some "michevious" ones could be doing just that?



Don't you think that humans could well have advanced, classified technologies that are capable of producing these "genuine" ones?

Did not say i did not, i am open to these possibilities but don't you think that advanced ET intelligences could well have advanced technologies that are capable of producing these "genuine" ones also.The trick here is to keep ALL possibility's open just now.:cool:;)

[phildee3]

Did not say i did not, i am open to these possibilities



Then how can you say this:

man made ones have the tell tale signs that experienced researchers can identify.




...but don't you think that advanced ET intelligences could well have advanced technologies that are capable of producing these "genuine" ones also.



Oh, absolutely!



The trick here is to keep ALL possibility's open just now.:cool:;)



Like experienced researchers can't identify which are man made?

[jamesc]

Then how can you say this:




Oh, absolutely!



Like experienced researchers can't identify which are man made?



Listen, simple really;

1.Experienced investigators like Colin Andrews ect to me can tell signs of man made formations.

2. You said" Like experienced researchers can't identify which are man made"?
in reply to my"keep ALL possibilities open", i meant that in keeping all possibilities open investigators and experienced researchers have a bigger list of possible origins for ALL formations and not just some.

To keep all possibilities open on the origins of ALL formations is not implying as you have implied that experienced researchers can't identify which are man made.:cool:

[phildee3]

Listen, simple really;

1.Experienced investigators like Colin Andrews ect to me can tell signs of man made formations.

2. You said" Like experienced researchers can't identify which are man made"?
in reply to my"keep ALL possibilities open", i meant that in keeping all possibilities open investigators and experienced researchers have a bigger list of possible origins for ALL formations and not just some.

To keep all possibilities open on the origins of ALL formations is not implying as you have implied that experienced researchers can't identify which are man made.:cool:

Even simpler:
If you keep all possibilities open,
then one of those possibilities is, a) that man has, and uses, technology to produce "genuine" circles
and another is, b) that non-human entities can, and do, imitate plankers,
then, c) your "experienced researchers" certainly can't identify which are man made with any degree of certainty!

Additionally:
as time passes, and we get further into this phenomenon, the above possibilities become more likely and so d) the distinction between "man-made" and "non-manmade" becomes even more unreliable.

[jamesc]

Even simpler:
If you keep all possibilities open,
then one of those possibilities is, a) that man has, and uses, technology to produce "genuine" circles
and another is, b) that non-human entities can, and do, imitate plankers,
then, c) your "experienced researchers" certainly can't identify which are man made with any degree of certainty!

Additionally:
as time passes, and we get further into this phenomenon, the above possibilities become more likely and so d) the distinction between "man-made" and "non-manmade" becomes even more unreliable.



I think there has been a misunderstanding here .Once more;
So i will simplify it.


1. Investigators have the experience to tell man made formations.
3.Once a certain formation is exposed to be man made by the signs associated with it , secret teck,(opps), ET or unknown source's can be ruled out.
3.Once a certain formation is investigated and NO man made signs are prevalent then secret teck,(opps), ET or unknown source's are considered or enter the frame of POSSIBILITY.:rolleyes:


Seems that IF investigators could NOT tell a man made formation or its associate signs from a formation that did NOT contain evidence of showing it to be man made then ALLformation would come under the category of "unknown,ET or black,ops teck.The latter is simply not the case and thank feck the hoaxers have been shite and stupid enough in the past to leave signs of man made formations so investigators could log and reference it for future investigations to determine man made ones from genuine unknown ones.

Of course these hoaxers have become more clever and cunning and skilled in their formation making but not one of them has produced a 100% to the millimetre ,flawless duplicate genuine complex formation in any acceptable time frames and precision.

What we need here is for these hoaxers to come into a field at night or day under the watch of investigators and produce a highly complex and massive formation based on and to the latter and millimetre and within acceptable time frames,(not the 5 hour time it took some hoaxers to do one and it still looked shite), previous formations that have been discovered by these investigators to be genuine/unknown.:cool:

[phildee3]

I think there has been a misunderstanding here .Once more;
So i will simplify it.

1. Investigators have the experience to tell man made formations.



Stop right there!
This is an erronious assumption.
If non-human entities are capable of producing those incredibly sophisticated formations, many of which display a certain sense of humor/micheviousness, they sure as hell could hoax a "man-made" one that would fool your "investigators"!

Your erronious thinking really shows up at the end of your post. How the heck could a planker's demonstration of a really brilliant hoax prove that they make all the shitty ones?

[chattanova]

Three Mysterious Orange Lights Near U.K. Guy's Cliffe Wheat Formation

What is behind those lights? That’s the question.
Is it something physical behind the light?
Or some kind of energy intelligence?
Are the balls of light responsible for making
some of the crop formations?”
- Andrew Pyrka, Editor, Cropcirclewisdom.com

http://img38.imagefra.me/img/img38/8/7/14/kennet/f_1ec52v88b6pm_c783cdb.jpg http://img40.imagefra.me/img/img40/8/7/14/kennet/f_2160lhm0j0dm_12e4d67.jpg

Two 6-pointed stars, one of dark standing crop with a delicate second star in the middle defined
in flattened wheat, was reported July 10, 2010, near the Guy's Cliffe house in Old Milverton, Warwickshire, England. Guy's Cliffe dates back to Saxon times and the chapel is still used for
Masonic ceremonies. Aerial image © 2010 by John Montgomery. Orange lights image © 2010
by Andrew Pyrka. See more images and information: Cropcircleconnector.com.

full report http://www.earthfiles.com/news.php?ID=1731&category=Environment

[the mark]

Thanks chattanova. That's an amazing interview. :cool:

[jamesc]

Stop right there!
This is an erronious assumption.
If non-human entities are capable of producing those incredibly sophisticated formations, many of which display a certain sense of humor/micheviousness, they sure as hell could hoax a "man-made" one that would fool your "investigators"!

Your erroneous thinking really shows up at the end of your post. How the heck could a planker's demonstration of a really brilliant hoax prove that they make all the shitty ones?

Stop right there :D, you said
quote;
, " they sure as hell could hoax a "man-made" one that would fool your "investigators"!"

That part of your quote is based on your own personal assumptions and speculations that these intelligences WOULD create or have any reasons or motives to "hoax a "man-made" one that would fool your "investigators"!To me that is simply erronious, eh i mean;) , ERRONEOUS:rolleyes: justification and thinking on your part. That part of your post really shows up your ERRONEOUS thinking on using assumptions and speculations with no valid evidence that any formations that have been shown to be man made in origin are the results of mischievousness non human intelligences that would deliberately try to confuse and muddy the waters of any investigators in a micheviousness,;) eh ,i mean,MICHEVIOUSNESS agenda.:confused:

That these intelligences would spend all that effort just to confuse investigators?what the heck would be the point in these non human intelligences producing incredibly sophisticated formations and then go pissing about with formations to confuse.:confused:Why would they WANT to create confusion in messages, what is the nature of this thinking??ERRONEOUS i would say.:cool:

[jamesc]

Following on from this formation posted by CHATT;


Orange Spheres of Light Photographed
Near Guy's Cliffe, Warwickshire, U. K. Wheat Pattern




“What is behind those lights? That’s the question.
Is it something physical behind the light?
Or some kind of energy intelligence?
Are the balls of light responsible for making
some of the crop formations?”
- Andrew Pyrka, Editor, Cropcirclewisdom.com

http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/2010/guys/anomalies.jpg

Three orange lights moving near Guy's Cliffe,
Warwickshire, England, wheat formation on July 12, 2010,
and caught on low-light shutter speed at around 1/15th to 1/30th
of a second. Image © 2010 by Andrew Pyrka.


July 14, 2010 Guy's Cliffe, Old Milverton, Warwickshire, England - On July 10, 2010, Cropcircleconnector.com reported a new formation at Guy's Cliffe house near Old Milverton in Warwickshire, England. Guy's Cliffe country house dates back to the Anglo-Saxons when Germanic tribes invaded Great Britain beginning in 597 A. D. into the 7th Century. Since the end of the 1900s, the ancient house on the River Avon has been in a derelict state, but the chapel is still used for Masonic ceremonies.





On July 10, an Old Milverton resident was walking a dog on a path that parallels the River Avon close to Guy's Cliffe country house and a large wheat field that rises a bit over a small hill. Near the path, the dog walker could see some precise patterns of downed wheat and contacted the Cropcircleconnector. Because of the rising land, much of the pattern cannot be seen from the pathway. But when people started flying, a beautiful 6-pointed star of standing wheat encircles a much fainter 6-pointed star in the center flattened wheat.

.





Crop circle photographer and investigator, Andrew Pyrka, was born in Poland forty-seven years ago. When he was nine, his family moved to Cheltenham, Glostershire, England, where he has grown up, married, has his own family and drives a taxi for a living. Andrew has become so fascinated with English crop formations and the mysterious lights associated with them that he and a friend, Paul Jones, drive as often as they can the nearly 50 miles one way from Cheltenham to the Vale of Pewsy in Wiltshire for night watches and to get into formations as early as they can to photograph and videotape before damage by public visitors. The 2010 crop formations have expanded to several other counties beyond Wiltshire and the longer distances mean that Andrew and Paul don't always get into new formations in the first hours.

The two did not get to the Guy's Cliffe wheat formation until 3:30 AM on July 12, about two days after it was first reported. “I love the beauty of the dawn,” Andrew told me, “and like to photograph formations at sunrise whenever I can. But unfortunately on the early morning of July 12, the sky was overcast and it started raining while we were trying to photograph. But it was well worth the trip because I saw three, bright, orange-yellow balls of light moving in the air.”









Interview:

Andrew Pyrka, Cheltenham Taxi Driver, Crop Circle Photographer, Investigator and Webmaster for CropcircleWisdom.com, Cheltenham, Glostershire, England: “Right by the edge of the path running along the trees, three orange lights appeared. My camera was up on my pole for wider shots, so I had to take the camera off the pole very quickly.

WHAT WERE YOU SEEING WITH YOUR EYES?

"It was so bright and intense light of three spheres. The light was almost like phosphorus burning at high intensity – very, very intense – almost like a setting sun at its highest intensity".

WAS IT MOVING?

"Yes. When I first saw the lights, they faded up to visibility in the air - all three of them- and moved together from the far left end of the treeline as I faced the river and Guy's Cliffe house from where I was inside the wheat pattern. There are no roads there along the river – only the walking path. The lights moved in the air for about 30 seconds – not much more than that. Then the lights stopped in front of the Guy’s Cliffe House, flared up bright orange and then disappeared".

WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE YELLOW IN THE FIRST PHOTOS AND THE ORANGE IN THE OTHER PHOTOS?

"Right, in those photos where they are orange and elongated, that is when they started to move. I panned my camera along with them as they moved. The camera was set to a standard low-light setting, so there was no flash".

SO THE EXPOSURE COULD BE 1/15TH OR 1/30TH OF A SECOND AND THAT’S WHY THERE WOULD BE MOTION IN THE FRAME.

"Absolutely! When the three spheres of light were moving, I just managed to capture them as quickly as I could. Just shoot, shoot, shoot! That’s what I do when I see something. I point straight away and shoot. At first, I saw only the one light and didn't see the other two. But then from the angle that I was standing, I could see the three balls of light quite clearly. It was all very quick – no more than 30 seconds".

ARE THE FRAMES OF RECTANGULAR LINES OF ORANGE BECAUSE THAT WAS LOWER LIGHT AND THE SHUTTER SPEED WAS SLOWER?

"Quite possibly so. The setting captured three individual balls moving that made orange trails at that shutter speed. My original first view of the lights, they appeared more yellow. But the flare up of the object in front of Guy’s Cliffe house was distinctly orange".

SINCE THE EARLY 1990S, THE MYSTERIOUS LIGHTS HAVE BEEN VIDEOTAPED AND PHOTOGRAPHED IN AND AROUND CROP FORMATIONS. WHAT DO YOU THINK IS THE SIGIFICANCE OF THE LIGHTS YOU PHOTOGRAPHED?

"The lights indicate to us that there is Something out there that we do not understand. At Guy's Cliffe, there was something very mysterious and inexplicable. There is an intelligence of some type, whatever They are. The lights are observant and have an interest in something around crop formations. What is behind those lights? – that’s the question. Is it something physical behind the light? Or some kind of energy intelligence? What is it? Are the balls of light responsible for making some of the crop formations?”:cool:

http://www.earthfiles.com/news.php?ID=1731&category=Environment

[phildee3]

Stop right there :D, you said
quote;
, " they sure as hell could hoax a "man-made" one that would fool your "investigators"!"

That part of your quote is based on your own personal assumptions and speculations that these intelligences WOULD create or have any reasons or motives to "hoax a "man-made" one that would fool your "investigators"!To me that is simply erronious, eh i mean;) , ERRONEOUS:rolleyes: justification and thinking on your part. That part of your post really shows up your ERRONEOUS thinking on using assumptions and speculations with no valid evidence that any formations that have been shown to be man made in origin are the results of mischievousness non human intelligences that would deliberately try to confuse and muddy the waters of any investigators in a micheviousness,;) eh ,i mean,MICHEVIOUSNESS agenda.:confused:

That these intelligences would spend all that effort just to confuse investigators?what the heck would be the point in these non human intelligences producing incredibly sophisticated formations and then go pissing about with formations to confuse.:confused:Why would they WANT to create confusion in messages, what is the nature of this thinking??ERRONEOUS i would say.:cool:

When something is unexplained, no possibility can be ruled out.
There are many kinds of non-human entities with all kinds of motives.
The trickster is just one that is well known about in many indiginous, tribal cultures.

[jamesc]

The Future is Underway – 2012 and beyond
gives great hope for our children.
July 12, 2010.

2010 International Crop Circles Conference in England CANCELLED following attempts to dictate the program. The Future Is Underway:

Statement from Colin Andrews;
"Program Directors were contacted by Michael Glickman and Gary King, who
were also speaking at the conference, insisting that I be removed from the
ticket or they would not present. Power Places Tours Directors refused to do
this, deciding instead to cancel the entire Conference"
Colin Andrews
July 12, 2010;


"Many people may have learned recently that the Power
Places tour in England was cancelled. You may have
thought there were financial reasons for this, but
contacts at Power Places Tours confirmed that this was
not the case. Rather, it was cancelled due to the feeling
of irreconcilable differences on the part of a few of the
other speakers who refused to attend if speakers with
views such as mine were represented.


Unfortunately in today’s world, issues have become polarized beyond the
point of rational discussion. In this extreme atmosphere,
differences of opinion are not tolerated and often result
in attempts to remove information from the pubic arena.
The public is treated as if they are no longer considered
worthy of receiving all points of view. Free thinking has
become a threat to easily led masses and many, from all
sides, are trying to control available information.

This reprehensible behavior can be seen in the media,
in political discussions, environmental and climate issues
and more. It has become an unfortunate presence in the
crop circle conversation, a conversation that is greater
than the voice of believers or non-believers.


It includes an interaction with consciousness.Sadly,there are
those in the crop circle community who believe people
should not be given all the information, but only the
information they sponsor.

The situation we find ourselves in is not unexpected. It
fits perfectly into the discussion of “2012” and the
transitional period we are in. This is a time when old
structures of deceit and manipulation are failing.
Transformation into new and better structures for the
future is underway. What the future will look like
depends on what we create in the actions and decisions
we make today. It depends on freedom of thought,
freedom of information and freedom of spirit. This is
what my research has been based on.

My special investigation into man-made crop circles in
England during 1999 and 2000 indicated that just over
80% of the circles made during this time were man-
made, leaving just under 20% with no proven human
involvement. The details have been discussed on many
occasions over the years and as time has passed the
evidence supporting my revelation has grown. At the
time, the results were as unexpected for me as any one
else. The surprise caused me to evolve my thinking
which expanded my research beyond the crop circle and
UFO to include studies in consciousness.

The arena of consciousness has shed light on the many
incongruities in the crop circle phenomenon. I've
listened to the experiences of people who have made
crop circles; from their feeling an “urge” to create
designs in the field, to making patterns that through
synchronicity fit into a larger picture, to their interactions
with balls of light in the field. It is clear that the
discussion is beyond believer and non-believer, and is
inclusive of both. It is also clear that without discussion
of all points of view, valuable insight and information is
lost. That is why it is so disconcerting to find people in
the crop circle community trying to slander and skew
information that should be available to all. People are
bright enough to make up their own mind.

I first spoke for Power Places Tours over twenty years
ago along with author and researcher John Michell, and
Power Places Tours and I have remained long time
friends. John sadly passed away 24th April 2009 and
will be missed for his scholarly presentations and
knowledge of sacred geometry; http://www.colinandrews.net/John-Michell.html



I was invited once again to present my research at the Power Places Tours
conference in England in the grounds of Salisbury
Cathedral. As mentioned at the beginning of this article,
however, a few weeks ago the conference was
cancelled. Regrettably something occurred that has
never been experienced by Power Place Tours before,
or indeed by me. Program Directors were contacted by
Michael Glickman and Gary King, who were also
speaking at the conference, insisting that I be removed
from the ticket or they would not present. Power Places
Tours Directors refused to do this, deciding instead to
cancel the entire Conference.

It is sad to see the behavior of this small, but loud
minority. It is not unexpected as the demand for
censorship and fear of dialogue is part of the
disintegration of the past. Every attempt to close down
honest dialogue, however, is an opportunity for us to
rise to higher ground.

I congratulate Power Place Tours
for their integrity which has been demonstrated in the
good name they have earned over the last several
decades. It’s extraordinary to consider that an institution
that has engaged high caliber people to dialogue and
present for them such as His Holiness, the Dala Lama,
Mrs. Anwar Sadat, Gregg Braden, Deepak Chopra,
Neale Donald Walsch, and many others, would be
dictated to in this fashion.

This year England has been scrubbed from Power
Places Tours' International travel programs and I am
saddened by losing the opportunity to present my
research developments.:mad: I hope people will join me and
other well-known teachers including Gregg Braden,
Mayan shaman Hunbatz Men, plus others at the Power
Places Tours’ International Conference at Chichen-Itza-
December 13-22, 2012 culminating in a special
ceremony and event on December 21, 2012 to welcome
in our new vision of the future that we intend to create.
(www.powerplaces.com). I will also be presenting at the
Countdown to Transformation conference in Rio Rico,
Arizona, USA on October 2-4th and an International
conference in Malta on the 8-10th October.

As the tethers of society are failing, old ways of doing
business are decoupling and clearing way for new
constructs and a new exciting paradigm. No government,
no religion, no person or subject will be free of the
changes now cascading. While initially difficult, in
accepting the challenge, we are creating the most
uplifting, spiritual and enlightening period in human
history. If we have learned anything from the past it is
that truth and intuition are essential and central
ingredients as we move now towards 2012 and the
predicted “Golden Age.” We can create a humanity that
functions with respect and love, that is fully informed,
involved in truthful dialogue, and is in coherence with
the natural world.

I hope to see you in Chichen-Itza at the upcoming Power
Places Tours’ “2012” conference. Look for my research
findings in an upcoming article on Conscious Crop
Circles on this web site. Other opportunities to meet and
hear my latest findings in Malta and USA :

link; http://www.colinandrews.net/PowerPlacesConferenceCancelled.html


Colin Andrews upcoming 2010 Presentations here; http://www.colinandrews.net/Presentations.html




When people like this,( Michael Glickman and Gary King ),are allowed to blackmail event organisers like this, then a stand has to be made, I am guessing that news of this demand getting out into the World will do their cause no good at all, I think they will find themselves running low on work for a while, who is going to invite them if they are going to play the "I AM GOD" game?:rolleyes::cool:

[jamesc]

Found this very intersting peice, food for thought.






http://www.cropcirclesecrets.org/ccimages/crop_circles_0301.jpeg

CROP CIRCLES EXPLAINED.
Crop circles are organized harmonic forms that manifest around the world, the result of an energy interacting with the physical world - in this case plants. This energy is comprised of light, sound and magnetism. To date, crop circles have been reported in 29 countries, and have appeared in mediums such as wheat, barley, canola, trees, ice, rice paddies, even linseed.

Contrary to popular perception, crop circles are not a modern phenomenon. They are mentioned in academic texts of the late 17th Century, and over 200 cases have been reported prior to 1970. Some eighty eyewitnesses – as far flung as British Columbia and Australia – have reported crop circles forming in under twenty seconds; these witnesses describe sightings of incandescent or brightly-coloured balls of light which either precede a crop circle or are actively involved in its creation; in some cases shafts of light have descended onto a field and swirled the crop into a geometricshape in less than fifteen seconds. Such reports are often described by farmers.

Only around 1980 was serious attention was finally given to the phenomenon, primarily in southern England, where 90% of designs are reported. The designs appeared primarily as simple circles, circles with rings, and variations on the Celtic cross. By the late 1980s they had developed straight lines, creating pictograms not unlike the petroglyphs found at sacred sites thoughout the world. After 1990 the designs developed exponentially in complexity, and today it is not unusual to come across crop glyphs mimicking computer fractals and elements expressing fourth dimensional processes in quantum physics.

Crop circles have also increased increased in size, some occupying areas as large as 200,000 sq ft. To date there have been over 10,000 reported crop circles.

If you happen to buy the media-fed misrepresentation that all crop circles were originated by two sexagenarians called Doug and Dave, you are not in the minority. Once in a while, governments like to control public interest in unexplained phenomena they cannot control by 'debunking' – a technique developed by the US government after WWII for the sad purpose of controlling mass opinion (as stated in the 1953 Robertson Panel, details of which are obtained under the US Freedom of Information Act). This method is very effective because it makes use of two extraordinarily simple tools of mass control – ridicule and fear.

But only if you are prepared to believe everything you are told on television and newspapers, particularly when TV programmes suppress scientific or factual data with which the public can form an educated opinion on the subject. This absence of evidence is then replaced by ridiculing the subject through association with other 'fringe' topics; so-called 'experts' are brought-in to explain away all events as tricks of the imagination – freak weather conditions, drunk students, even sexually excited animals!

http://www.cropcirclesecrets.org/ccimages/crop_circles_0302.gif


According to many media reports, all crop circles up to 1992 were made by two simple, elderly men called Doug and Dave. However, it has since been discovered that the D&D story appears to have originated at the British Ministry of Defense. Evidence supplied by a high-ranking informant in that government institution suggested that the British government had every intent of discrediting the phenomenon by putting forward two pranksters in an effort to quell growing public interest in crop circles (the full story appears in Secrets In The Fields).http://www.cropcirclesecrets.org/crop_circle_secrets.html
But when later confronted to provide evidence of their alleged creations, Doug and Dave changed their story, even reversing previous claims; they could not even explain the unusual features found in the genuine phenomenon.

When they claimed making all the formations around the English county of Hampshire, for example, it was pointed out that the majority of known formations had actually occured in another county – "Er, no, we didn't do those either," they replied. In the end, not even Doug and Dave knew which ones they had made. And although they claim to have made hoaxes since 1978 – at the time the published date of the first design – unpublished evidence revealed how crop circles had been manifesting since the 1890s. The public has never heard D&D's retractions, nor been given the opportunity to compare the mess created by D&D with the mathematical elegance and anomalies of the real phenomenon.

In 1998, however, the surviving member of the deceptive duo did make an incredible admission to British newspapers that he'd been "guided by an unknown force".


http://www.cropcirclesecrets.org/ccimages/crop_circles_0303.gif

Prior to 1989 the hoaxing problem was virtually unheard of. Yet since Doug and Dave's inauguration, many copycat hoaxers have appeared on the scene. That people with a good amount of training can go into a field and eventually create a coherent pattern has never been the issue in crop circels research – in 1998 a group of hoaxers called Team Satan/circlemakers was paid to go to conveniently out-of-the-way New Zealand to make an elaborate formation for The Discovery Channel. The deceptive tactics used to trick a viewing public into accepting that crop circles are human made are dealt with here.http://www.cropcirclesecrets.org/crophoax_debrief.html

A hoax is a forgery, and forgers require a genuine from which to copy. So, what exactly lies behind the genuine crop circles?

In genuine formations the stems are not broken but bent (right), normally about an inch off the ground and near the plant's first node. In special cases, the stems are bent six inches from the top of the seed head. Such features defeat the hoax argument, since a plank or garden roller is required to flatten the crop to the ground, resulting in clear damage to the plants.http://www.cropcirclesecrets.org/ccimages/crop_circles_0304.gif

The plants appear to be subjected to a short and intense burst of heat which softens the stems to drop just above the ground at 90º, where they reharden into their new and very permanent position without damage. Plant biologists are baffled by this feature, and it is the singlemost method of identifying the real phenomenon. Research and laboratory tests suggest that infrasound (sound below 20 Hz) is capable of producing such an effect:

High-pressure infrasound is capable of boiling water inside the stems in one nanosecond, expanding the water, and leaving tiny blowholes in the plants' nodes. The pressure applied also causes the water to steam, and it is reported by farmers that when they stumble upon a new crop circle they see steam rising from within the design. This process creates surface charring along the stems.

The tremendous application of local heat is also responsible for altering the local water table, as millions of gallons of surface and sub-surface water is evaporated. With the heat and electro-magnetic frequencies applied, it has been scientifically documented that soil samples taken from within crop circles show changes to its crystalline structure and mineral composition. Expert analysis concludes that such a process requires temperatures of 1500º C and sub-soil pressure typically found in strata thousands of years old.

Evidence even exists of four non-naturally occuring, short-life radioactive isotopes in the soil inside genuine crop circles (these dissipate after three or four hours, causing no adverse side effects in fact, the soil in and around them appears to have been baked. Hardly the kind of anomalies created by pranksters with planks!

Crop circles also show existence of ultrasound –sound above the human hearing range – and such frequencies are known to exist at ancient sites such as stone circles, long barrows, tumuli, dolmens and menhirs. And like all sacred sites, temples and places of worship – such as Gothic cathedrals – the crop circles appear at the intersecting points of the Earth's magnetic pathways of energy; thus the size and shape of a crop circle is typically determined by the area of these 'node' points at the time of their appearance.




http://www.cropcirclesecrets.org/ccimages/crop_circles_0305.gif


This electric and magnetic energy can interact with brainwave patterns, and because the human body is itself electro-magnetic, crop circles are known to affect people's biophysical rhythms. Consequently, it is not unusual for people to experience heightened states of awareness and healings in crop circles – a situation also common to sacred sites and holy spaces. People may also experience dizziness, disorientation and nausea. All these effects can be caused by prolonged exposure to both infrasound or microwaves, which also interact with the water in the body.

Biophysical evidence shows the plants' nodes (its knuckles) are drastically extended (right); also observed are distortions of seed embryos, and the creation of expulsion cavities in the plants as if they have been heated from the inside. In genuine formations there is also a reorganization of the plant's crystalline structure – in these microscope photos (below right) the top image of a control sample of wheat radically differs to the one below taken from a crop circle.

Other evidence from crop circles shows how the floors of laid plants are swirled in mathematical proportions relative to the Golden Mean, the fundamental vortex used by nature to create organisms such as shells, sunflowers, galaxies, even the spatial relationship of the bones in the human hand; the floor of crop circles can have up to five layers of weaving, all in counterflow to each other, with every seed head intact and placed beside each other as if arranged in a museum case.

Genuine crop circles are not perfectly round but slightly elliptical (a hoax, requiring a fixed central rope, cannot achieve this adequately). Their edges are crisply defined from the flattened crop as if drawn with a compass, and incised with surgical precision. Hoaxes, by comparison, bear a stylistic resemblance to tuffs of greasy, uncombed hair – and, of course, all their plants have been trampled, bruised and crushed.

Crop circles are sometimes accompanied by trilling sounds, since captured on tape and analysed by NASA as being artificial in origin, and bearing a harmonic frequency of 5.2 kHz.

http://www.cropcirclesecrets.org/ccimages/crop_circles_0308.gif


http://www.cropcirclesecrets.org/ccimages/crop_circles_0309.gif
Mathematically, genuine crop circles encode obscure theorems based on Euclidian geometry. So far, the designs have yielded five new mathematical theorems. They are also invisibly encoded with sacred geometry – those harmonic ratios that govern the relationship between the orbits of planets in our solar system.

Crop circles alter the local electromagnetic field; often compasses cannot locate north, and cameras and cellular phones malfunction. Whole packs of fresh batteries are drained in minutes, and the frequecnies involved have been known to affect helicopter and aircraft equipment. Radio frequencies are markedly different inside their space; local farm animals avoid the crop circles or simply act agitated hours before one materializes; and car batteries in entire villages fail to operate the morning after one is found nearby. In some major events, entire towns have been left without power.

http://www.cropcirclesecrets.org/ccimages/crop_circles_0310.gif






Since genuine crop circles materialize at crossing points along the Earth's magnetic energy currents, they are influencing the energy patterns of local phehistoric sites, which were built upon identical principles. They reference local Neolithic sites in size/shape/direction, and are dowsable upon entry, with as many as 150 concentric rings of energy radiating beyond their physical perimeter, like ripples in a pond. In fact, a year after they have been harvested and the field ploughed and re-sown, the energy imprint of the formations will still be dowsed, long after their physical traces have vanished.

This area of research has allowed for the possibility of crop circles as a healing force, and their images are already being successfully employed in radionics, flower essences and resonance therapy, both for people and environments in distress. Some of these protocols have been scientifically validated.

Crop circles generally form at night between the hours of 2-4 am, traditionally during the shortest evenings of the English year when darkness lasts but four hours. A lucky few have witnessed large balls of incandescent colour project a beam of golden light into a field which next morning displays a new crop circle. During surveillance project in 1989 a Japanese TV crew filmed a crop circle manifesting in the early hours of the morning, showing a swirl motion of energy lasting less than fifteen seconds. Such a rapid rate of creation confirmed the unpublished eyewitness reports.

At Stonehenge in 1996 (below), a pilot reported seeing nothing unusual while flying above the monument at 4:15pm, yet 15 minutes later a second pilot reported this huge 900 ft formation resembling the Julia Set computer fractal. Comprising 149 circles and aligned along a spiral curve, it lay within view of the well-patrolled monument. It took a team of 11– including myself – no less than five hours just to survey the formation.

Still not convinced that a genuine phenomenon is at work around the world? This web site contains a sampling of the on-going research dedicated to enlightening the public. Look at the pictures, study the research or better still, visit a genuine crop circle or read my comprehensive book. You'll get the message pretty quickly.

And when you do, share this extraordinary phenomenon with your best friends. For it is indeed the most important event taking place in our lifetime.

http://www.cropcirclesecrets.org/ccimages/crop_circles_0311.gif

source; http://www.cropcirclesecrets.org/education.html

[relax]

Awesome find James, great piece.