Let it all go Crash!

[beetzart]

http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/business_money/credit+crunch+markets+in+decline/667397

Just stumbled across this. The fractional lending system is starting to slip. The central banks are pumping millions, sorry billions into the system to prop it up. Where does this money come from? Nowhere of course they just create it from nothing. Fractional reserve banking is the most evil creation of human kind. We have all been duped and conned and I hope it all collapses. Then again I suppose it will all be orchestrated like that for their own benefit.

[phoebe]

http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/business_money/credit+crunch+markets+in+decline/667397

Just stumbled across this. The fractional lending system is starting to slip. The central banks are pumping millions, sorry billions into the system to prop it up. Where does this money come from? Nowhere of course they just create it from nothing. Fractional reserve banking is the most evil creation of human kind. We have all been duped and conned and I hope it all collapses. Then again I suppose it will all be orchestrated like that for their own benefit.

I'm not clued up on this kinda thing
But isn't this just more of the same old same old?
Another recession in a long ol line of recession-boom-recession-boom?
If so I feel very sorry for people with large mortgages.
Actually I don't, they're pretty stupid.
Not to mention greedy.
My next door neighbour has just tied a rather large £250,000+ noose around their neck.
Houseprices up, huge mortgages
Then out comes the rug from under the feet of the mortgagees
And lo and behold thousands upon thousands of houses in the hands of the banks when people can no longer pay.

Yeah, seems like business as usual to me.

[beetzart]

Yep, business as usual but it's wrong surely?

When Mervyn King annouces that interest rates have to rise by a quarter % 'to cool inflation' why does no-one ask where the money goes? It could be said that it goes to savers but then how does that 'cool' inflation by putting it back into the system again? The real answer is that is ceases to exist. Something that never existed in the first place suddenly disappears as easily as it was created.

I have close friends who have just embarked on a 35 year morgate for a £125000 house. It is only a two up, two down. They are paying circa £750 a month.

With interest rises people have to find the extra somehow when their wages stay the same. Hence, they have to cut back on certain pleasures luxuries. This must hit the economy hard in certain areas when people stop going to the pub, taking the kids for a day out, etc, etc. How is that a good thing?

It's not just families but businessess. The firm I work for now offer very little overtime, even half and hour a week is deemed exessive and frowned upon, maybe not even paid, if so reluctantly. 9 years ago when I first worked for them overtime was almost mandatory and people did as much as they could, maybe 20/25 hours a week extra; it was paid no questions asked. My point is that people struggle to pay these increases and can't rely on overtime to bail them out because firms are in the same situation with interest rates.

[phoebe]

Yep, business as usual but it's wrong surely?

When Mervyn King annouces that interest rates have to rise by a quarter % 'to cool inflation' why does no-one ask where the money goes? It could be said that it goes to savers but then how does that 'cool' inflation by putting it back into the system again? The real answer is that is ceases to exist. Something that never existed in the first place suddenly disappears as easily as it was created.

I have close friends who have just embarked on a 35 year morgate for a £125000 house. It is only a two up, two down. They are paying circa £750 a month.

With interest rises people have to find the extra somehow when their wages stay the same. Hence, they have to cut back on certain pleasures luxuries. This must hit the economy hard in certain areas when people stop going to the pub, taking the kids for a day out, etc, etc. How is that a good thing?

It's not just families but businessess. The firm I work for now offer very little overtime, even half and hour a week is deemed exessive and frowned upon, maybe not even paid, if so reluctantly. 9 years ago when I first worked for them overtime was almost mandatory and people did as much as they could, maybe 20/25 hours a week extra; it was paid no questions asked. My point is that people struggle to pay these increases and can't rely on overtime to bail them out because firms are in the same situation with interest rates.

Oh it's not a good thing.
For those who don't benefit at least.
I was just a bit surprised at your apparent shock at the article
When it's just an ever repeating cycle.

You say you want the system to crash completely.
What would happen then?
I think I can imagine a little
But what would be the implications to the man on the street and his family?

I am fairly 'lucky' in that I bought my house a while before the price boom
And 'only' owe about £50k if I were to pay it off completely tomorrow.
But it's people's own fault really as I said above.
They are greedy.
People are never satisfied with what they already have.
They always want something bigger, flashier.
My neighbours have just finished competely rennovating their house
To the tune of thousands and thousands of pounds.
It's like a palace.
I told her how impressive it was and she said
'Yes, but it's still only a terraced house, we want a detached.'
Now... they're moving to a third of a million pound detached house
And have a quarter of a million pound mortgage!
And she actually seemed to think this was some kind of achievement!
lol
They do it to themselves.
They really do.
I would shit myself if I owed a bank that much money PLUS INTEREST over 25 years!
So yeah, people are being taken advantage of
But only because they let themselves
Because they're so damned greedy.

[neutron flux]

They do it to themselves.
They really do.


That just reminds me of this song by Radiohead:

Radiohead - Just - YouTube

[phoebe]

That just reminds me of this song by Radiohead:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5X7HKxpiQA

Yes, it was purposefully reflecting the song.
:)

[Anders Lindman]

Get ready for a stock markets crash on Monday!!!!!! It will bring the meaning of the term 'Black Monday' to a whole new level. :eek:

[beetzart]

The crazy thing about this system is that nothing can ever be lost....except make belief credit. There will still be enough food and fuel just not enough credit to buy it with. What mad world do we live in? I hate banks and all associated credit organisations yet I have to be in bed with them, so to speak, so I can spend my wages (that I have earned and GIVEN a slice to the government).

Surely people here realise that fractional reserve banking is immoral and wrong? Governments borrow money with the taxpayer as security to pay. It's all a con. The great depression in the USA in the '30s wasn't due to lack of resources but lack of credit.

A workmate of mine has recently had a bit of building work done on his house and the builder asked for the final payment of £5000 in cash. So my mate went to bank to request this. He had it in his account so no problem there. The problem was the bank didn't have £5000 in cash at hand and 'had to order it in'. He was told it would take three working days to get the cash. Banks SHOULD have the cash readily available. Of course they don't because of frac reserve banking, they need to get it from a central bank. Imagine if you wanted to withdraw a million pounds in cas, or to be funny a £1000000 in gold.

I'm going to join the Money Reform Party.

[Anders Lindman]

Get ready for a stock markets crash on Monday!!!!!! It will bring the meaning of the term 'Black Monday' to a whole new level. :eek:

It will be known as Monday 13. Within the timespan of a few hours from now, the small traders will get cold feet, because they will come to realize that they are at the bottom of a pyramid scam.

A pyramid scam actually works; for those above a certain level in the pyramid. And it will even work for those at the bottom of the pyramid IF the pyramid continues to grow. The problem is that the pyramid grows exponentially and it will eventually not be possible for it to grow any further, and when that happens, the pyramid is VERY big, and the lower part of the pyramid is much bigger than the upper part, and it is the size of the lower part that makes it possible for those above to make profit, and thus it is the lower part that will lose when the pyramid cannot grow any further.

[mr_moon]

Money is an Illusion put there to make us believe we can't survive without it.

[chris]

It wasn't long ago since Iran started trading in petrol euro's...The recession before 9/11 is believed to be because of Sadam did the same thing. It rectified after Iraq was invaded...

I feel bad for saying this and I don't want this to happen at all but perhaps it will give us a little more time if Iran was toppled...I guess that's the rational of the top neocons and why they are defending this.

[Anders Lindman]

the small traders will get cold feet, because they will come to realize that they are at the bottom of a pyramid scam.


At first the small traders' plan will be to wait and see what the big traders will do, and read what experts are saying and writing about in media. Then they will realize that the media works for those at the top of the pyramid and not for the small traders, so they will turn 180 degrees and not trust any kind of economic or financial information being published. In other words, the plug at the bottom of the pyramid will be pulled out in addition to the usual stock market crash dictated from above, and, consequently, this crash will involve the collapse of the bottom of the pyramid as well. This is called a financial controlled demolition.

[Anders Lindman]

this crash will involve the collapse of the bottom of the pyramid as well.

To be a bit more serious, I don't think any drastic crash will happen on Monday, but it's fun to speculate. :D In the long run, something like this may happen in a gradual way though. I think stock markets should be like casinos; gambling for entertainment, not as something to build an entire economy on.

[mentalogirl]

This was on the bbc news site:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6941615.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/5414696.stm

Could this have something to do with,again,spreading fear?

[king]

http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/business_money/credit+crunch+markets+in+decline/667397

Just stumbled across this. The fractional lending system is starting to slip. The central banks are pumping millions, sorry billions into the system to prop it up. Where does this money come from? Nowhere of course they just create it from nothing. Fractional reserve banking is the most evil creation of human kind. We have all been duped and conned and I hope it all collapses. Then again I suppose it will all be orchestrated like that for their own benefit.

when it does "crash" it will crash because someone wants it that way

when it does "crash" we will be forced to take another credits-based system, electronic credits that is.
need i say that that would be full control of your finances where you are issued electronic credits and if you do not use them up all by next Monday -- you lost it all, you won't be able to save them up.

and, if you are against gvmt -- they will not give you any credits and you'll die from hunger.
because, by then those without credits would be considered outcasts like
street vagabonds are considered nowadays.

in a society that believes in nothing (we are almost there) you will wish you were not born -- if you just had guts to not follow the orders.
that new society will be a society of total control, where information is kept on everyone, where there is no free will but just state defined PC, that if you go against -- you will be re-educated or eradicated, or you may even become soilent green raw material.


so, did you really think that when current money system crashes PTBs will be fucked?

[solve_et_coagula]

The Insolvency Crisis: How we got here, and what to expect

http://www.bitsofnews.com/content/view/5955/

[whitenight639]

one of my first post on this forum was we should start our own currency or bartering scheme, or go back to gold but never let it fall into the hands of banks and such. I hope the system does fall and people realise where money comes from (nowhere!) and how much they've been fucked over by the bankers and elite, then hopefully people will say no to the credits and chips, no to the suppression and information monitoring.

[sirjohnthebadji]

one of my first post on this forum was we should start our own currency or bartering scheme, or go back to gold but never let it fall into the hands of banks and such. I hope the system does fall and people realise where money comes from (nowhere!) and how much they've been fucked over by the bankers and elite, then hopefully people will say no to the credits and chips, no to the suppression and information monitoring.


The Totnes Pound?

http://transitiontowns.org/Totnes/Main/TotnesPound

I've just read Neal Stephenson's 'Cryptonomicon' where a central theme is just this subject.

[whitenight639]

The Totnes Pound?

http://transitiontowns.org/Totnes/Main/TotnesPound

I've just read Neal Stephenson's 'Cryptonomicon' where a central theme is just this subject.

wow cheerz for the link i never though anyone had/ was doing it, shame its only to december i was just about to pack my bags! its a start and im glad they have a link to that money as debt video which is a great wake up vid.
never heard of Neal Stephenson but will look him up when i have some free time!

[fccool]

It will be known as Monday 13. Within the timespan of a few hours from now, the small traders will get cold feet, because they will come to realize that they are at the bottom of a pyramid scam.

A pyramid scam actually works; for those above a certain level in the pyramid. And it will even work for those at the bottom of the pyramid IF the pyramid continues to grow. The problem is that the pyramid grows exponentially and it will eventually not be possible for it to grow any further, and when that happens, the pyramid is VERY big, and the lower part of the pyramid is much bigger than the upper part, and it is the size of the lower part that makes it possible for those above to make profit, and thus it is the lower part that will lose when the pyramid cannot grow any further.

Not quite yet. The pumping in of the billions of dollars into global money supply is to accomplish just that... to make it hold just a little bit longer. Perhaps till next election, maybe not quite that long. But nothing will help now for this thing to collapse, because it is so deeply engrained in minds of people that they can not imagine how it can operate otherwise. It's a standard for them. But as somebody pointed above, it is funny that the real wealth does not just disapear when the system collapses. But people have been led to believe that the real wealth is indeed the imaginary numbers. Panic will paralize the economy more than the actual economic collapse ever could. If people stop believing and trusting the system, it will simply stop being functional.
I don't see it as a negative thing. It will be a wake up call for many. What I see as a negative thing that fear and chaos will once again be manipulated for the ultimate goal to be achieved... Global currency under global economy. Maybe not in this phase, but it will be much closer. Amero is already rolling out.

[sirjohnthebadji]

wow cheerz for the link i never though anyone had/ was doing it, shame its only to december i was just about to pack my bags! its a start and im glad they have a link to that money as debt video which is a great wake up vid.
never heard of Neal Stephenson but will look him up when i have some free time!

It's a big fat book but it's a cracking yarn and it delves deep into what 'money' is, and is for, and mixes in some Turing Enigma Bletchley Park computer stuff that made me think. Worth browsing for in your local bookshop or library.

[Anders Lindman]

Not quite yet. The pumping in of the billions of dollars into global money supply is to accomplish just that... to make it hold just a little bit longer. Perhaps till next election, maybe not quite that long. But nothing will help now for this thing to collapse, because it is so deeply engrained in minds of people that they can not imagine how it can operate otherwise. It's a standard for them. But as somebody pointed above, it is funny that the real wealth does not just disapear when the system collapses. But people have been led to believe that the real wealth is indeed the imaginary numbers. Panic will paralize the economy more than the actual economic collapse ever could. If people stop believing and trusting the system, it will simply stop being functional.
I don't see it as a negative thing. It will be a wake up call for many. What I see as a negative thing that fear and chaos will once again be manipulated for the ultimate goal to be achieved... Global currency under global economy. Maybe not in this phase, but it will be much closer. Amero is already rolling out.

Ok. I'm no expert on stock markets. Interesting observation that the actual wealth, at least physical property, still will remain even if the economy totally collapses.

It will be interesting to see what will happen when the stock markets open. Is it the Asian stock markets that open first?

[Anders Lindman]

It's a big fat book but it's a cracking yarn and it delves deep into what 'money' is, and is for, and mixes in some Turing Enigma Bletchley Park computer stuff that made me think. Worth browsing for in your local bookshop or library.

I loved Neal Stephenson's book Diamond Age. I think I will check out Cryptonomicon today.

[whitenight639]

It's a big fat book but it's a cracking yarn and it delves deep into what 'money' is, and is for, and mixes in some Turing Enigma Bletchley Park computer stuff that made me think. Worth browsing for in your local bookshop or library.

Turing Enigma Bletchley Park computer stuff ?? :confused:
I know what enigma means but other than that your speaking a different language! please enlighten me.

[sirjohnthebadji]

I loved Neal Stephenson's book Diamond Age. I think I will check out Cryptonomicon today.

Ah, good man, it's all about gold, and data havens, and cryptography, and Nazi gold, and stuff that you probably understand far better than I do. I must have a go at Diamond Age.

[sirjohnthebadji]

Turing Enigma Bletchley Park computer stuff ?? :confused:
I know what enigma means but other than that your speaking a different language! please enlighten me.


World War Two.

Communications.

Secret Messages.

Bletchley Park was a place in England where cryptographers and others deciphered 'secret' messages over short and other wave frequencies from submarines and so on that the 'enemy' had sent, using various machines including one called 'Enigma' that was in some respect the forebear of the modern computer. In other words, heroic stuff.

[Anders Lindman]

Ah, good man, it's all about gold, and data havens, and cryptography, and Nazi gold, and stuff that you probably understand far better than I do. I must have a go at Diamond Age.

Diamond Age is about nanotechnology and matter compilers and stuff like that.

The first fifteen minutes of this Asian stock market chart shows that shares are rising.

http://new.quote.com/world/asia_australia.action

But it's too early to tell the overall trend yet I think.

[sirjohnthebadji]

Diamond Age is about nanotechnology and matter compilers and stuff like that.

The first fifteen minutes of this Asian stock market chart shows that shares are rising.

http://new.quote.com/world/asia_australia.action

But it's too early to tell the overall trend yet I think.

Uncomplicitly, okay! Am now off to bed, to forget, and yet to dream, without prejudice. Roll on Monday, and let's see what happens to the markets. Respectfully yours, and will try to get a look at 'DIAMOND AGE' tomorrow.

[whitenight639]

World War Two.

Communications.

Secret Messages.

Bletchley Park was a place in England where cryptographers and others deciphered 'secret' messages over short and other wave frequencies from submarines and so on that the 'enemy' had sent, using various machines including one called 'Enigma' that was in some respect the forebear of the modern computer. In other words, heroic stuff.

ahh comprende, i knew what enigma machines were but never knew the operaters were called cryptographers and worked from bletchley park. thanks for the insight.

[i_am]

How US home owners caused global market tremors

Monday August 13, 2007, 7:50 am

http://au.biz.yahoo.com/070812/33/1coll.html

Sure lets blame the consumer. The fact that 'they' allowed, nay encouraged, it to happen seems to evade most people's comprehension.

[Anders Lindman]

The first fifteen minutes of this Asian stock market chart shows that shares are rising.

http://new.quote.com/world/asia_australia.action



Correction: the chart shows the Australian XJO-ASX stock market.

Stock markets in Japan also show an increase, for example:

http://new.quote.com/stocks/quote.action?s=%24NI225-NKI

[i_am]

Correction: the chart shows the Australian XJO-ASX stock market.

Stock markets in Japan also show an increase, for example:

http://new.quote.com/stocks/quote.action?s=%24NI225-NKI

China, India, hong kong, Indonesia and New Zealand are all in the red

ooops! Scrub India. It is only 7:30 am there :)

[fccool]

It's pretty interesting that that was the plot of the Fight Club. To bring down the credit market so everybody would have a clean start... but in this case it was unplanned by the elites.

I think all of the people know what's going on. They know there's something wrong. But the choose to suppress it in fear that they might loose their jobs, and thus will be unable to support their families. This whole thing is glued together by fear. But I find it's difficult to just pop the subject into conversation as the majority don't know anything about it... so it is I who ends up speaking for the most time... I wonder if there's a better way to "wake people up" to this reality of the monetary system other than just force the conversations so to speak. If you have any ideas, I'd like to hear them.

[king]

How US home owners caused global market tremors

Monday August 13, 2007, 7:50 am

http://au.biz.yahoo.com/070812/33/1coll.html

Sure lets blame the consumer. The fact that 'they' allowed, nay encouraged, it to happen seems to evade most people's comprehension.

yes, they blame the people again, especially those who went after "American dream" propaganda that is -- buying their own home. And, conveniently, those 'low income Americans' are now to blame for their desire to get a house because they got 'overextended'.

and, conveniently, mortgage lenders made only one 'mistake' -- they did not check if those low income Americans were able to make payments.

once more those sinister mofos of high finance have fleeced the sheeple, once more sheeple has fallen for the same trick.
but hey -- private property is to be outlawed anyways, so who cares...
right?

this crafty lending (agenda) to "high risk home owners" always ens up with "blame the victim".

first they take away your life savings and they make you even borrow the money from your family and friends for the down payment, so that you can "qualify", and when you completely over extend yourself (house repairs, extra bills, return of borrowed money to your friends and family) -- then when your house goes in foreclosure because you cannot keep up with obligations.
then, when you house is in foreclosure they take away all of the money that you had put down, including monthly payments -- and you not only get the shaft -- but you get the blame as well.

needles to say, your credit is fucked and you can forget about owning a house for years to come, and if you are stupid enough to try again -- your shitty credit score will guarantee that you will get a shitty interest rate.

so, either way -- you are fucked.
some "American dream" huh?

and all of that could have been avoided if you did not create the credit in first place by your own signature.

[Anders Lindman]

China, India, hong kong, Indonesia and New Zealand are all in the red

ooops! Scrub India. It is only 7:30 am there :)

Yes, China for example has a recent sharp drop:

http://new.quote.com/stocks/chart.action?s=$399002-SHE&chartUi.aggregation=V:5&chartUi.bartype=AREA&chartUi.bardensity=LOW

[fccool]

Yes, China for example has a recent sharp drop:

http://new.quote.com/stocks/chart.action?s=$399002-SHE&chartUi.aggregation=V:5&chartUi.bartype=AREA&chartUi.bardensity=LOW

Thanks for the info! Recently US DOW dropped 200 pints too, hence all of the money infusion to keep it afloat just a bit longer.

[Anders Lindman]

Thanks for the info! Recently US DOW dropped 200 pints too, hence all of the money infusion to keep it afloat just a bit longer.

By recent I meant in the last hour. The American stock markets have not opened yet.

[fccool]

By recent I meant in the last hour. The American stock markets have not opened yet.

I realize that, but I could not find any news or infor about it yet since it's pretty recent.

BTW. Check this out. This is hillarious.

http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2006/12/31/45837/844

of course the poster seems to be oblivious to the fact that plastic money is created out of nothing