It is INSANE not to legalize heroin(and all drugs)

[steppewar]

I will mainly concentrate on the heroin argument.

Legal heroin should be available via prescription to registered drug addicts, and only them.

If this policy was introduced, huge problems would be solved in the blink of an eye, and there would be no down side to this at all.

1) 4 out of 5 crimes are committed by people who want money for drugs, normally heroin. 80% of crime has now vanished in an instant, and the jails will have room for people that are currently on the streets but who deserve to be locked up.

2) Organized crime would be almost wiped out as most of it is drug related.

3) As crime levels would be so low, the argument for excessive CCTV monitoring and the march of the Big Brother state would be eradicated.

4) The health of drug addicts would improve as their heroin would not contain rat poison,etc.

5) The CIA would not have all their drug money to finance their black ops.

No 5 is of course the reason why drugs will never be legalized. By the way, I am not suggesting that ANYONE should be able to walk into a pharmacy and get heroin, only people who became addicted to it by the existing 'street deal' illegal way should.

After all, doctors prescribe methadone, why not heroin?

I do not believe anyone would deliberately become a street heroin addict, just so he could then get the stuff for free from a doctor.

Also, drug addicts prescribed heroin are not going to sell it to anyone else as they need it for themselves.

In Liverpool in the 90's, doctor's were allowed to prescribe heroin to registered addicts. Many of these addicts started to sort themselves out and stopped committing crime and got healthier.

Unfortunately, an edition of the US program "60 minutes" did a hit piece on this and the UK government was pressured into stopping funding for this 'free heroin' experiment. The drug addicts involved in this then resorted to their old lives of crime, illegal heroin and jail.

Lastly if I was sent to jail, I would probably become a heroin addict just to cope with being banged up.

Alas, common sense, it seems is illegal, as well as heroin.

PS, Portugal has decriminalized heroin, with very beneficial results, basically my arguments have been physically proved, see below.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2009/07/how_portugal_treats_drug_addic.html

[dusan]

i think weed should be legal....

tastes good, natural, gets you relax....taste good did i said it gets you high and tastes good?

go for legal weed

like that shit, smoke that shit, pass that shit

[Ian2day]

The drugs trade is used to subvert a nations strength. It also brings in piles of cash for organised crime. Just like all the other rackets.

[kanz]

It would be a step in the right direction , but for many reasons beyond our control I just couldnt see it happening.

At the same time it could be used against us. If somehow they could get 50% of the pop hooked on it, well right there they would control ANY election .

[mrerisian]

i think weed should be legal....

tastes good, natural, gets you relax....taste good did i said it gets you high and tastes good?


It's not very good for your short term memory though. ;)

[cookie_dude]

Legal heroin should be available via prescription to registered drug addicts, and only them.

Why only drug addicts? What about people in pain?
I think people should have full control over what pain killers they use. If you control the pain relief you can control the masses.

[darreninnz]

It's not very good for your short term memory though. ;)

I love it when people say this, its just another example of people believing everything they read.
I've been smoking weed daily for over 25years (i'm 39 now) and have been working as a cab driver for the last 6 years, if it gave you short term memory loss i wouldn't be able to find my own way home, let alone anyone else and i have no problem remembering over 4500 different streets.

Back to the thread of legalising heroin-- i'm sure i read an article that stated that drugs have been legalised or at least tollerated in Portugal with some excellent results, i.e. crime has fallen and the amount of people taking up drugs is reducing. If this is true, it is indeed another argument for legalising all drugs.

[mrerisian]

I love it when people say this, its just another example of people believing ...

My short term memory is pretty poor at the best of times but it gets worse when I've had a cheeky burn in the last few days.

Nothing to do with anything I've read.

[steppewar]

Why only drug addicts? What about people in pain?
I think people should have full control over what pain killers they use. If you control the pain relief you can control the masses.

Fair point, I agree, there is nothing wrong with using it for pain relief.

[darreninnz]

My short term memory is pretty poor at the best of times but it gets worse when I've had a cheeky burn in the last few days.

Nothing to do with anything I've read.

I've got memory loss now- cant find my lighter.

[steppewar]

I love it when people say this, its just another example of people believing everything they read.
I've been smoking weed daily for over 25years (i'm 39 now) and have been working as a cab driver for the last 6 years, if it gave you short term memory loss i wouldn't be able to find my own way home, let alone anyone else and i have no problem remembering over 4500 different streets.

Back to the thread of legalising heroin-- i'm sure i read an article that stated that drugs have been legalised or at least tollerated in Portugal with some excellent results, i.e. crime has fallen and the amount of people taking up drugs is reducing. If this is true, it is indeed another argument for legalising all drugs.

Here is the proof that the heroin toleration program in Portugal has had massive across the board benefits.

Bet it wont be long before the CIA/Illegal heroin industry scuppers this common sense program.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2009/07/how_portugal_treats_drug_addic.html

[rowantk]

[/QUOTE]
Back to the thread of legalising heroin-- i'm sure i read an article that stated that drugs have been legalised or at least tollerated in Portugal with some excellent results, i.e. crime has fallen and the amount of people taking up drugs is reducing. If this is true, it is indeed another argument for legalising all drugs.[/QUOTE]

Yes, I also read that Portugal de-criminalised all drugs with fantastic results. Oppisition were kicking off screaming how it will turn the country into smack heads. Instead its supposingly sorted out alot of issues. But they didn't show that on BBC TV!!! :(

[darreninnz]

Thanks for the link steppewar, i forgot about the help these people were offered as well.
Your right about becoming an addict if you were on the inside, i worked as a prison officer for a couple of years ( had to leave--too depressing a job ) and saw numerous lads come in with problems and leave with the same problems plus an added drug addiction, It's really sad what happens inside prison.

[dmt head]

After all, doctors prescribe methadone, why not heroin?


Because methadones harder to get off of than heroin and their not in the business of healing are they?

If I was rich I would immigrate to portugal for their drug policys, plus its nice weather lol

[disorder2k8]

I only think pot should be legal because of its effects (on mind and society) compared to alcohol.

When all drugs are made available to all, the harder
ones that make you incapacitated (on the floor dribbling) and the psychoactives
could lead to a lot of social breakdown over time.

[steppewar]

I only think pot should be legal because of its effects (on mind and society) compared to alcohol.

When all drugs are made available to all, the harder
ones that make you incapacitated (on the floor dribbling) and the psychoactives
could lead to a lot of social breakdown over time.

In reference to heroin, I said that ONLY registered 'street heroin' addicts should be able to get prescribed heroin.

In other words, a normal person who has never used heroin, would NOT be able to walk into a doctor's surgery and walk out with a free bag of heroin.

[disorder2k8]

In reference to heroin, I said that ONLY registered 'street heroin' addicts should be able to get prescribed heroin.

In other words, a normal person who has never used heroin, would NOT be able to walk into a doctor's surgery and walk out with a free bag of heroin.

Ok I was more refering to your '(all drugs)' thing.

Drugs right now can potentially be cut with all kinds of nasty surprise stuff, padding and wotnot, and thats pretty bad. But, I always hear people say 'well, if the government legalised them they would be clean and regulated' and I have to say bollocks to that unfortunately. The government has never effectively regulated a single chemical substance with regards to our own well being. They are here to kill us and they are doing that perfectly well with tainted substances. Its why, like smoking, they keep the system in place.

Drugs would get the same treatment as every other processed crap we get, the effects would be minimal, the costs high and there would still be a high addictiveness factor, because thats what gets you to keep buying their crap.

The real problem is money, dealers want to make more, pharmacutical companies want to make more, everyone who is any position of power wants more.

When that goes away, drugs will get the proper respect and equal distribution for anyone that wants to experience it without any serious rammifications.

[steppewar]

Ok I was more refering to your '(all drugs)' thing.

Drugs right now can potentially be cut with all kinds of nasty surprise stuff, padding and wotnot, and thats pretty bad. But, I always hear people say 'well, if the government legalised them they would be clean and regulated' and I have to say bollocks to that unfortunately. The government has never effectively regulated a single chemical substance with regards to our own well being. They are here to kill us and they are doing that perfectly well with tainted substances. Its why, like smoking, they keep the system in place.

Drugs would get the same treatment as every other processed crap we get, the effects would be minimal, the costs high and there would still be a high addictiveness factor, because thats what gets you to keep buying their crap.

The real problem is money, dealers want to make more, pharmacutical companies want to make more, everyone who is any position of power wants more.

When that goes away, drugs will get the proper respect and equal distribution for anyone that wants to experience it without any serious rammifications.

The fact remains that legalizing heroin in the terms I have stated would have a beneficial effect on society, even if the users were still addicted to the stuff.

[dmt head]

Prohibition doesnt work, seeing problems in legalisation like oh the governments are evil doesnt make a difference because its not going to happen anyways, they make plenty money off it illegally atm. The way things are anything changing would be a positive step because prohibition doesnt stop anything and creates criminals out of users when they shouldnt be, the majority of humans will always seek to get intoxicated, its been this way forever.

Legalize ALL drugs!

[cookie_dude]

I only think pot should be legal because of its effects (on mind and society) compared to alcohol.

When all drugs are made available to all, the harder
ones that make you incapacitated (on the floor dribbling) and the psychoactives
could lead to a lot of social breakdown over time.

Most of these drugs have been around since the dawn of time will little ill effect on the masses.

[sorath]

Prohibition doesnt work, seeing problems in legalisation like oh the governments are evil doesnt make a difference because its not going to happen anyways, they make plenty money off it illegally atm. The way things are anything changing would be a positive step because prohibition doesnt stop anything and creates criminals out of users when they shouldnt be, the majority of humans will always seek to get intoxicated, its been this way forever.

Legalize ALL drugs

+1

[dancing_with_durga]

Bill Hicks got it right (as he so often did) when he said 'the war on drugs is a war on personal freedom'.
.

[krakhead]

I think all drugs should be legalised, production standardised and quality controlled, and, most importantly IMO - they get taxed - therefore paying for the treatment required for those who will inevitably develop problematic use.

[cpfc12]

I will mainly concentrate on the heroin argument.

Legal heroin should be available via prescription to registered drug addicts, and only them.

If this policy was introduced, huge problems would be solved in the blink of an eye, and there would be no down side to this at all.

1) 4 out of 5 crimes are committed by people who want money for drugs, normally heroin. 80% of crime has now vanished in an instant, and the jails will have room for people that are currently on the streets but who deserve to be locked up.

2) Organized crime would be almost wiped out as most of it is drug related.

3) As crime levels would be so low, the argument for excessive CCTV monitoring and the march of the Big Brother state would be eradicated.

4) The health of drug addicts would improve as their heroin would not contain rat poison,etc.

5) The CIA would not have all their drug money to finance their black ops.

No 5 is of course the reason why drugs will never be legalized. By the way, I am not suggesting that ANYONE should be able to walk into a pharmacy and get heroin, only people who became addicted to it by the existing 'street deal' illegal way should.

After all, doctors prescribe methadone, why not heroin?

I do not believe anyone would deliberately become a street heroin addict, just so he could then get the stuff for free from a doctor.

Also, drug addicts prescribed heroin are not going to sell it to anyone else as they need it for themselves.

In Liverpool in the 90's, doctor's were allowed to prescribe heroin to registered addicts. Many of these addicts started to sort themselves out and stopped committing crime and got healthier.

Unfortunately, an edition of the US program "60 minutes" did a hit piece on this and the UK government was pressured into stopping funding for this 'free heroin' experiment. The drug addicts involved in this then resorted to their old lives of crime, illegal heroin and jail.

Lastly if I was sent to jail, I would probably become a heroin addict just to cope with being banged up.

Alas, common sense, it seems is illegal, as well as heroin.

PS, Portugal has decriminalized heroin, with very beneficial results, basically my arguments have been physically proved, see below.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2009/07/how_portugal_treats_drug_addic.html

:Just because the drug is legal, doesn't mean that people are going to go at legal means to get the money to buy the drug.

Not true about organised crime, for one our government is a large organised crime network, and anyway most of the coffee shops in Amsterdam are run by criminal gangs, despite pot being legal.

Again what makes you think that crime levels would be so low ? Simply because the drug is now being sold in a different environment, it still contains addictive propeties, people still will be desperate for the drug, and resort to crime. Just because they are addicted to a legal drug, doesn't mean that they will put on a suit and get a job in the city to fund their habit.

Thats true, the drug probably would be more pure but then again look at the big companies that we trust that sell us food such as macdonalds, coca cola, they contain a load of shit which they are legally selling to us.

There still will be a street market, already now you have people on the street selling prescribed drugs, and taking some of the profit.

ALthough i agree legalising drugs is going to have it's beneficial results, and i am all for legalising canabis, i wouldn't want to see Heroin legalised.
The effect of legalising opium fucked up hong kong back in the day, as the queen was drug pushing basically, it really damaged the country in a bad way, leaving everyone docile and seriously ill.
Remember that many people admitted into mental institutions are so because of their drug habit, don't be naive and think its a drug that can be mastered.

I am sure soon drugs will be legalised, as it will fullfill Crowely's revolution"

[cpfc12]

BRITAIN GETS MONOPOLY ON OPIUM TRADE
Karl Marx wrote in "Genesis of the Industrial Capitalist," Volume One of "Capital": "The English East India Company, as is well known, obtained, besides the political rule in India, the exclusive monopoly of the tea-trade, as well as of the Chinese trade in general, and of the transport of goods to and from Europe. ... The monopolies of salt, opium, betel and other commodities, were inexhaustible mines of wealth."

So while the Chinese government was taking stronger and stronger measures to end the opium trade, the British were doing all they could to increase it.

Britain's East India Company would wage three wars on the people of China in order to secure the right to sell opium there. These wars for imperialist plunder and to open up new markets determined the fate of Hong Kong.

They were the world's first drug wars. Their sole purpose was to secure the importation of an addictive substance that provided a bountiful flow of profits.

Opium sales had risen gradually from 2,330 chests in 1788 to 4,968 chests in 1810. But once the British got a monopoly, they forced it up to 17,257 chests in 1835, worth millions of British pounds.

Britain's governor-general of India wrote in 1830, "We are taking measures for extending the cultivation of the poppy, with a view to a large increase in the supply of opium."

The Opium War of 1839-42 started when the Chinese imperial government confronted foreign merchant ships and demanded they surrender their illegal cargo. Capt. Elliot, superintendent of the British fleet, asked the governor-general of India for as many ships as he could spare.

He sent them to Hong Kong, where they protected the opium-carrying merchant vessels. Chinese junks sent by the emperor didn't stand a chance against the British warships.

Rowntree wrote that the British were "in a great hurry to make money out of the East, and the gunboats were found to clear the way quickly. All vestiges of compassion for mankind had been swept away by the silver stream of rupees which poured into the Calcutta Exchequer."

The wars waged on the Chinese people caused untold deaths and casualties. The British destroyed, plundered, looted and raped their way along the coast of China.

[cpfc12]

I think all drugs should be legalised, production standardised and quality controlled, and, most importantly IMO - they get taxed - therefore paying for the treatment required for those who will inevitably develop problematic use.

Maybe it would be a thought, to instead put money that is used in miliitary expenditure, i.e. blowing up little brown people in far away foreign lands, and use it for more constructive means such as improving hospitals and schools, then we wouldn't have to leagalise heroin.

[sorath]

The current system is corrupt and clearly doesn't work! What would be the harm in trying it?

It couldn't get any worse really!

[cpfc12]

Most of these drugs have been around since the dawn of time will little ill effect on the masses.

The communities where i live in south london have been destroyed but heavy drugs. Drugs do fuck people up, look at any town centre across the country, and you see the legal drugs such as WKD, Stella, special brew, putting people into agressive states.

[krakhead]

Maybe it would be a thought, to instead put money that is used in miliitary expenditure, i.e. blowing up little brown people in far away foreign lands, and use it for more constructive means such as improving hospitals and schools, then we wouldn't have to leagalise heroin.

That would be lovely. Possibly even more unlikely that the legalisation option, but still a lovely thought :)

I would still prefer to see drugs legalised though, the criminal 'justice' aspect of drug use destroys families almost as much as the drugs themselves :mad:

[cpfc12]

The current system is corrupt and clearly doesn't work! What would be the harm in trying it?

It couldn't get any worse really!

Well making it more easy for people to purchase a drug which is very harmful, highly addictive hmmmm....

Just because the state makes something illegal doesn't mean that its good for us.
Murder is illegal, yet should we go about legalising that ?

[cpfc12]

That would be lovely. Possibly even more unlikely that the legalisation option, but still a lovely thought :)

I would still prefer to see drugs legalised though, the criminal 'justice' aspect of drug use destroys families almost as much as the drugs themselves :mad:

Again i think people are underestimating how powerful this drug is.
I have noticed that drugs such as these, are the only things that come between the maternal love between a mother and her child. They destroy families far more so than being arrested for having the drugs on you.
In my old neighbourhood, there was a drug addicted woman, who used to abuse her child, she was apparently perfectly normal before she started taking these drugs.
It makes people sick, and sick people should be treated, however when they pose a threat to themselves or others then they should rightly be put in an institution on prison, yes i know drugs are more easier to obtain in prison in somee cases, however i can't really see what other option there really is. Legalising it will just make it more availble, and turn the state into drug dealers

[1eyeopen]

What's all this about drugs wreck lives and destroy families? Drugs never did a damn thing, peoples bad choices regarding drugs did, but we should be free to make those choices.

I love weed and would love to see it legal but the most common argument I hear for that is "to raise money through taxes" and I think that's bull shit. If you want to raise money through taxes then tax your buddy Jesus. Religion has caused far more pain, upset and death than all the drugs in the world combined ever have and that shits not only legal it's tax free.

Weed should be legal mainly because err.......It's a plant. (Not a from a plant like H or Coke, no processing involved, pick, dry, cure, smoke - NATURAL)

Drugs should be legal because we should be free to make our own choices.

And alcohol does not make people violent. Violent people do violent things, pissed or not. I've had a few too many drinks on the odd occassion and by that logic I shouldn't of got home with out glassing someone. Yet I made it home without being covered in someones claret because I'm not a violent person.

People do what they do because they were always going to do it. If someone chooses smack over their family they did it because they're an arsehole and eventualy something was always going to lead to them revealing their true colours, it's them not the drugs. People are shit dont make excuses for that.

[krakhead]

Well making it more easy for people to purchase a drug which is very harmful, highly addictive hmmmm....

Just because the state makes something illegal doesn't mean that its good for us.
Murder is illegal, yet should we go about legalising that ?

Lol! For a start - where on earth did I say that if something was illegal, it's good for you? With thought processes like that, you should work as a head line writer for the Sun! ;)

For the record, I don't think all substances are safe for regular use, that includes alcohol and caffeine. Intelligent, sensible, informed use can be very rewarding though - that, again, includes alcohol and caffeine :D

With regards making substances more easily available - have you stepped out your door recently? If you think it's difficult to get hold of illicit substances, then you're fooling yourself, like it or not, they're everywhere if you want them. :( Supply DOES waver at times, but when supply is poor, quality is affected, when the quality improves, people die (obviously talking about opiate use here). If we could standardise the strength, users would know what they were getting - OD's would reduce. Accessing clean needles, other paraphernalia would be less stigmatised, therefore reducing levels of Hep B, C etc.

In the long run, the savings for the NHS would be immense - the levels of Hep C in IV drug users right now is a bit of a time bomb, the cost of treatment is projected to be massive. We could stop all this of a more sensible approach to substance use was implemented.

Also - to call illicit substances 'very harmful' is a gross over-statement, yes there are cautions that should be taken, as with ALL substances, you can OD on coffee for example. Opioids AREN'T particularly physically harmful in long term use, BUT, the life style that tends to go with it, the IV use, the questionable purity etc. etc. ARE damaging. Back to the argument to standardise the quality of the supply.

My final point would have to be - we need to look at why people want to off their faces all day to begin with - social standards need to be raised, people need to be able to look forward to their day, not want to hide from it.

Solve social deprivation and the vast majority of substance misuse would stop pretty damn quickly IMO

[bsmurph83]

Question:

Why in this thread has noone stopped to ponder the difference between "legal" and "lawful"?

Marijuana is only "ILLEGAL" if you give your consent to be governed (whether tacitly or explicitly) by the Gov and it's Acts and Statute 'laws'.

Marijuana can be LAWFULLY grown, smoked, etc, by someone who has revoked consent to be governed by the government's Acts and Statutes.

Then they no longer apply to you.

Feel me?

A PERSON cannot grow or smoke weed.

A living man on the land CAN.

If you don't like the Gov's laws, it's simple. Don't abide by them!

(There's a process to this, by the way...) ;)

[krakhead]

Again i think people are underestimating how powerful this drug is.
I have noticed that drugs such as these, are the only things that come between the maternal love between a mother and her child. They destroy families far more so than being arrested for having the drugs on you.
In my old neighbourhood, there was a drug addicted woman, who used to abuse her child, she was apparently perfectly normal before she started taking these drugs.
It makes people sick, and sick people should be treated, however when they pose a threat to themselves or others then they should rightly be put in an institution on prison, yes i know drugs are more easier to obtain in prison in somee cases, however i can't really see what other option there really is. Legalising it will just make it more availble, and turn the state into drug dealers

The state are already drug dealers of 'approved drugs'. The same 'approved drugs' that have caused suicides, that have caused birth defects etc. etc.

I wouldn't comment on the woman you mention because I don't know her history/full story. I would want to know why she started taking drugs in the first place, more often than not there's a reason other than 'wooh, I loves drugs me', it tends to be in response to something.

I would recommend you stop thinking about 'drugs', it's such a loaded term. Try to think more of substances and substances of abuse - they can be legal and illegal (I have already mentioned alcohol - awful figures of abuse related to alcohol use) - then view the evidence of which substances actually harm people, and which ones we're told harm people. You will tend to find that the figures do not match the rhetoric.

[cpfc12]

What's all this about drugs wreck lives and destroy families? Drugs never did a damn thing, peoples bad choices regarding drugs did, but we should be free to make those choices.

I love weed and would love to see it legal but the most common argument I hear for that is "to raise money through taxes" and I think that's bull shit. If you want to raise money through taxes then tax your buddy Jesus. Religion has caused far more pain, upset and death than all the drugs in the world combined ever have and that shits not only legal it's tax free.

Weed should be legal mainly because err.......It's a plant. (Not a from a plant like H or Coke, no processing involved, pick, dry, cure, smoke - NATURAL)

Drugs should be legal because we should be free to make our own choices.

And alcohol does not make people violent. Violent people do violent things, pissed or not. I've had a few too many drinks on the odd occassion and by that logic I shouldn't of got home with out glassing someone. Yet I made it home without being covered in someones claret because I'm not a violent person.

People do what they do because they were always going to do it. If someone chooses smack over their family they did it because they're an arsehole and eventualy something was always going to lead to them revealing their true colours, it's them not the drugs. People are shit dont make excuses for that.

lol weed is harmless though compared to most drugs. Choices are affected by drugs though, there goes the whole idea of being able to control yourself under the influence of drugs

[cpfc12]

Lol! For a start - where on earth did I say that if something was illegal, it's good for you? With thought processes like that, you should work as a head line writer for the Sun! ;)

For the record, I don't think all substances are safe for regular use, that includes alcohol and caffeine. Intelligent, sensible, informed use can be very rewarding though - that, again, includes alcohol and caffeine :D

With regards making substances more easily available - have you stepped out your door recently? If you think it's difficult to get hold of illicit substances, then you're fooling yourself, like it or not, they're everywhere if you want them. :( Supply DOES waver at times, but when supply is poor, quality is affected, when the quality improves, people die (obviously talking about opiate use here). If we could standardise the strength, users would know what they were getting - OD's would reduce. Accessing clean needles, other paraphernalia would be less stigmatised, therefore reducing levels of Hep B, C etc.

In the long run, the savings for the NHS would be immense - the levels of Hep C in IV drug users right now is a bit of a time bomb, the cost of treatment is projected to be massive. We could stop all this of a more sensible approach to substance use was implemented.

Also - to call illicit substances 'very harmful' is a gross over-statement, yes there are cautions that should be taken, as with ALL substances, you can OD on coffee for example. Opioids AREN'T particularly physically harmful in long term use, BUT, the life style that tends to go with it, the IV use, the questionable purity etc. etc. ARE damaging. Back to the argument to standardise the quality of the supply.

My final point would have to be - we need to look at why people want to off their faces all day to begin with - social standards need to be raised, people need to be able to look forward to their day, not want to hide from it.

Solve social deprivation and the vast majority of substance misuse would stop pretty damn quickly IMO

I wasn't trying to attack you just the mentality of some people, not directed at you.
True drugs are easy to get hold of, but not to the extent where you can go down to any shop and by some grams of heroin.
Social deprivation in cases is caused by drugs, if your parents are addicted and spend most of their money on heroin, they are hardly going to have the time to spend the limited money they have on the childs clothes, all mmoney goes to the dealer.

[krakhead]

I wasn't trying to attack you just the mentality of some people, not directed at you.
True drugs are easy to get hold of, but not to the extent where you can go down to any shop and by some grams of heroin.
Social deprivation in cases is caused by drugs, if your parents are addicted and spend most of their money on heroin, they are hardly going to have the time to spend the limited money they have on the childs clothes, all mmoney goes to the dealer.

1) I knew that - that's why I winked! :D

2) Social deprivation CAN be brought about through substance abuse, absolutely. But, I have seen far more people lose everything through alcohol abuse than any other substance (not talking all and every here btw - there will be people who have done the same with any given substance, but for now, we're generalising)

Also -you mention the money goes to the dealer - another reason to legalise, tax and spend the money on social improvement programmes. Win/win situation :)

[cpfc12]

The state are already drug dealers of 'approved drugs'. The same 'approved drugs' that have caused suicides, that have caused birth defects etc. etc.

I wouldn't comment on the woman you mention because I don't know her history/full story. I would want to know why she started taking drugs in the first place, more often than not there's a reason other than 'wooh, I loves drugs me', it tends to be in response to something.

I would recommend you stop thinking about 'drugs', it's such a loaded term. Try to think more of substances and substances of abuse - they can be legal and illegal (I have already mentioned alcohol - awful figures of abuse related to alcohol use) - then view the evidence of which substances actually harm people, and which ones we're told harm people. You will tend to find that the figures do not match the rhetoric.

Yes, most people take drugs in retreat from something in their life, and no i haven't got enough time to be pc, so i am just going to call it drugs, eventhough i am aware there is a big difference in say some canabis and something like CRACK. Yes i believe drugs are pushed by the government, hell queen victoria started the first ever drug wars, but still doesn't make it right, although some drugs can give you some positive life changing experiences, such as shrooms, this topic is about legalising heroin, something i would not like to see. And again i have already said the affects of legal substances, such as alcohol have on the population, so it proves to you that if you leagalise something, its not going to improve the behaviour of the individual taking it.

Yes drug offences will go down, but that would be, because heroin is legal, we can say that from this day foward we will make all theft legal, i am sure the crime rate will drop then.
It seems that we live in a society, now where we depend on all sorts of drugs, LEGAL, and illegal, whether its prozac or heroin. It can't be right, that we are not being allowed to control our own emotions anymore, we need to have these synthetic external sources to make us feel normal.

[cpfc12]

1) I knew that - that's why I winked! :D

2) Social deprivation CAN be brought about through substance abuse, absolutely. But, I have seen far more people lose everything through alcohol abuse than any other substance (not talking all and every here btw - there will be people who have done the same with any given substance, but for now, we're generalising)

Also -you mention the money goes to the dealer - another reason to legalise, tax and spend the money on social improvement programmes. Win/win situation :)

But this just makes the dealer the government, and in that case what would happen to the dealers, it will just move them elsewhere into commiting crime, or possibly selling some more cheaper modified heroin or whatever.
Yes again social deprivation can be brought through substance abuse such as alcohol, but i would say that heroin is worse than alcohol, and why should we legalise something worse than that devil drink.

[krakhead]

Yes, most people take drugs in retreat from something in their life, and no i haven't got enough time to be pc, so i am just going to call it drugs, eventhough i am aware there is a big difference in say some canabis and something like CRACK. Yes i believe drugs are pushed by the government, hell queen victoria started the first ever drug wars, but still doesn't make it right, although some drugs can give you some positive life changing experiences, such as shrooms, this topic is about legalising heroin, something i would not like to see. And again i have already said the affects of legal substances, such as alcohol have on the population, so it proves to you that if you leagalise something, its not going to improve the behaviour of the individual taking it.

Yes drug offences will go down, but that would be, because heroin is legal, we can say that from this day foward we will make all theft legal, i am sure the crime rate will drop then.
It seems that we live in a society, now where we depend on all sorts of drugs, LEGAL, and illegal, whether its prozac or heroin. It can't be right, that we are not being allowed to control our own emotions anymore, we need to have these synthetic external sources to make us feel normal.

Well the title says heroin (and all drugs).

We agree that substances cause problems if misused. Prohibition has repeatedly been proved to not work in reducing substance misuse. Never ever has it worked. So why are we still trying?

And I wasn't being so trite as to say legalise drugs and therefore crime stats reduce because we aren't arresting them, I was talking about the criminal activity linked to the acquisition of drugs - robbing old ladies, domestic burglaries, the violence linked to control of drug supply etc.

And substance use has been with us forever, to say that people shouldn't need them distracts from the fact that substance use can be rewarding and life-enhancing (and I don't just mean 'awesome trip man' type use). I love my morning coffee - would you deny me that? Caffeine could kill me if I don't control its use, and it's very addictive -a 'dangerous drug' by definition then.

You say that people take substances to feel 'normal' (whatever that is!;)), I would disagree with that, only when addiction has occurred do this situation arise, I would think people want to use substances to not feel 'normal' - e.g. caffeine to make me feel more awake.

I would rather be able to legally choose which substances I used to help me feel the way I want to, I don't want to have to

1) break the law to use certain (naturally occurring and used for millennia remember) substances or

2) be forced to use unnatural, chemical concoctions created by companies who are only interested in profit (although - these DO have their place at times - I'd be dead without certain long term medication!)

[krakhead]

Yes again social deprivation can be brought through substance abuse such as alcohol, but i would say that heroin is worse than alcohol, and why should we legalise something worse than that devil drink.

Worse in what way? How is heroin for example 'worse' than alcohol?

[realitycheck]

Bad idea - would give the wrong message to kids.

[cpfc12]

When i say normal, i mean what society tells us as being normal, how we should feel. This is what people aim to achieve, by taking drugs, speaking generally now. I say normal in meaning, what society wants you to be like, the medias expectations, of being perfect.


This wouldn't make any difference in how people gained the money to get the drugs, whether or not they were made legalised, just will change the face of the street dealer, and make them more open and accepted.

There is a choice, you won't get in much trouble if you are found with illegal drugs, which are just for your personal use, and go to Brixton high street, and you will be given a large choice in any drugs you wish. Fair enough, you should have the choice to legally choose which drugs you want to take, but as the point i made above, i don't believe it will affect you greatly in terms of personal use, if it was legal or kept illegal. I am sure that the government will keep the dangerous chemicals in the drugs, like most of the foods you buy in your local shop contain. If they put this in coffee, doesn't suprise me if they would put it in a more profitable drug such as heroin.

I would say Heroin is worse than alcohol, eventhough alcohol is bad, thats why i try to steer away from it, i believe heroin posesses more harmful effects, as the high is more extreme, so as you can imagine the coming down would be more harmful, the whole idea of veins collapsing and getting aids doesn't appeal to me.

The thought of leaglising canabis and shrooms (not aware of the laws on magic mushrooms ??) would be pleasent. But do we really want a society dependent more so on external resources than it is now.

[soothseeker]

Choose life. Choose a job. Choose a career. Choose a family. Choose a fucking big television, Choose washing machines, cars, compact disc players, and electrical tin openers. Choose good health, low cholesterol and dental insurance. Choose fixed- interest mortgage repayments. Choose a starter home. Choose your friends. Choose leisure wear and matching luggage. Choose a three piece suite on hire purchase in a range of fucking fabrics. Choose DIY and wondering who you are on a Sunday morning. Choose sitting on that couch watching mind-numbing sprit- crushing game shows, stuffing fucking junk food into your mouth. Choose rotting away at the end of it all, pishing you last in a miserable home, nothing more than an embarrassment to the selfish, fucked-up brats you have spawned to replace yourself. Choose your future. Choose life... But why would I want to do a thing like that?

I chose not to choose life: I chose something else. And the reasons? There are no reasons. Who need reasons when you've got heroin?

People think it's all about misery and desperation and death and all that shite, which is not to be ignored, but what they forget is the pleasure of it. Otherwise we wouldn't do it. After all, we're not fucking stupid. At least, we're not that fucking stupid. Take the best orgasm you ever had, multiply it by a thousand and you're still nowhere near it. When you're on junk you have only one worry: scoring. When you're off it you are suddenly obliged to worry about all sorts of other shite. Got no money: can't get pished. Got money: drinking too much. Can't get a bird: no chance of a ride. Got a bird: too much hassle. You have to worry about bills, about food, about some football team that never fucking wins, about human relationships and all the things that really don't matter when you've got a sincere and truthful junk habit.

Our only response was to keep on going and fuck everything. Pile misery upon misery, heap it up on a spoon and dissolve it with a drop of bile, then squirt it into a stinking purulent vein and do it all over again. Keep on going: getting up, going out, robbing, stealing, fucking people over, propelling ourselves with longing towards the day it would all go wrong.
Because no matter how much you stash or how much you steal, you never have enough. No matter how often you go out and rob and fuck people over you always need to get up and do it all again.:mad:

[thelyran]

...There was a time I loved the cosy brown snow of the East...and would be a liar,to deny on an
Odd occasion,a wish to revisit that needle bliss.But from what I seen and experienced,you all would do yourself a favour to legalise it...for the obvious reasons,to avoid crime and violence,to reduce the
Need to exploit women,and to prevent the corrupted to reap profits from misery,pain and death.
Someone previously mentioned about maintaining the supply at a constant quality,to avoid overdoses,at least a few of you,can understand the issues surrounding the positive side of the
Arguement.This is a song,by The Velvet Underground,called Heroin...it’s not for it...it’s not against it
...it’s just about it.Before you ask,12 years straight from amphetamine and heroin and all substance abuse...except the occasional bong or joint...but please,no filth like alcohol...there’s a reason they
Call it spirits.....HEROIN-The Velvet Underground-Lou Reed 1966

(reed)

I dont know just where Im going
But Im gonna try for the kingdom, if I can
cause it makes me feel like Im a man
When I put a spike into my vein
And Ill tell ya, things arent quite the same
When Im rushing on my run
And I feel just like jesus son
And I guess that I just dont know
And I guess that I just dont know

I have made the big decision
Im gonna try to nullify my life
cause when the blood begins to flow
When it shoots up the droppers neck
When Im closing in on death
And you cant help me not, you guys
And all you sweet girls with all your sweet silly talk
You can all go take a walk
And I guess that I just dont know
And I guess that I just dont know

I wish that I was born a thousand years ago
I wish that Id sail the darkened seas
On a great big clipper ship
Going from this land here to that
In a sailors suit and cap
Away from the big city
Where a man can not be free
Of all of the evils of this town
And of himself, and those around
Oh, and I guess that I just dont know
Oh, and I guess that I just dont know

Heroin, be the death of me
Heroin, its my wife and its my life
Because a mainer to my vein
Leads to a center in my head
And then Im better off and dead
Because when the smack begins to flow
I really dont care anymore
About all the jim-jims in this town
And all the politicians makin crazy sounds
And everybody puttin everybody else down
And all the dead bodies piled up in mounds

cause when the smack begins to flow
Then I really dont care anymore
Ah, when the heroin is in my blood
And that blood is in my head
Then thank God that Im as good as dead
Then thank your God that Im not aware
And thank God that I just dont care
And I guess I just dont know
And I guess I just dont know

[lewi]

Walter Cronkite & America's Disastrous Drug War Pt 1 of 6 - YouTubeWalter Cronkite & America's Disastrous Drug War Pt 2 of 6 - YouTubeWalter Cronkite & America's Disastrous Drug War Pt 3 of 6 - YouTubeWalter Cronkite & America's Disastrous Drug War Pt 4 of 6 - YouTubeWalter Cronkite & America's Disastrous Drug War Pt 5 of 6 - YouTubeWalter Cronkite & America's Disastrous Drug War Pt 6 of 6 - YouTube

[krakhead]

I would say Heroin is worse than alcohol, eventhough alcohol is bad, thats why i try to steer away from it, i believe heroin posesses more harmful effects, as the high is more extreme, so as you can imagine the coming down would be more harmful, the whole idea of veins collapsing and getting aids doesn't appeal to me.

The thought of leaglising canabis and shrooms (not aware of the laws on magic mushrooms ??) would be pleasent. But do we really want a society dependent more so on external resources than it is now.

I'm sorry, but your opinion on heroin sounds uninformed and based on MSM anecdotes about the dreaded societal beast know as the 'junkie'! :eek: :D

I'm not sure what you mean by the high being more 'extreme'? The heroin high would be dependent on dose, purity, method and tolerance, the 'come down', if at the stage of recreational use and not addictive use is virtually nil - only when you've got into a physical addiction would this become problematic.

Heroin withdrawal is far safer than alcohol withdrawal though - not many people realise this. Heroin withdrawal feels like it's killing you, but is, generally speaking, safe. Alcohol withdrawal can lead to seizures, psychosis, brain damage etc.

Vein damage and the acquisition of a blood borne virus would be dependent on method of use - IV use, if done properly, with clean works could be done for years without any long term negative physical problems (I really wouldn't recommend IV use though - still far too risky)

[cpfc12]

I would say the difference is between heroin and alcohol, is that you can become quickly physically depenent on it, where as people can take alcohol on and off throughout their lives without suffering from addiction, but i can guarantee that taking a few hits of heroin would get your addicted, heroin slots in to the endorphins, and mimics them to an extent, where you can't attain them without a hit of heroin. I am not trying to play devils advocate for alcohol, or play into the stereotype of the person which views all those that take drugs as being junkies, but i certainly don't want to play into the stereotype of those who believe there is no harm in drug taking.

Again its all to do with choice, as long as your choice doesn't destroy the freedoms of others, then i haven't got a problem with it, but then again i wouldn't like to see drugs such as heroin and crack being openly sold and made more available than it is. I believe alcohol plays one of the main roles as controlling the masses, so why would anyone want to bring about another method of controlling the masses. I am sure soon everyone will be jacking up heroin, as the media have already made it fashionable and cool to take drugs (legal or illegal kay) to fvck the parents. Its just another part of the trap, they think they are rebelling but infact just conforming to one of the other agents of control they wish to inflict on us. Even if we do reach some spiritual sensation from shrooms, chances are it will be negative, as they make sure that our vibrations are kept low, and anything adnormal we see, is viewed as dangerous.

Oh yes btw the yogi you see next to crowely in your avatar, is acutally a very positive man i believe, quite a contrast :D

[krakhead]

Fair do's - I see where you're coming from. Personally, I couldn't give flying fig about the masses possibly being controlled through licit/illicit substances. My perspective has been informed through seeing the huge numbers of heroin users around (again proving that prohibition DOES NOT AND NEVER WILL WORK), the damage heroin use does to individuals and the larger impact on their locale, and the lack of resources to help them.

The legalisation/taxation approach would solve many problems facing both users and those who seek to help users.

And I don't think anyone, at least anyone who had done some decent research, would claim that substance use is without risk/danger. Minimising the inherent risks/dangers would be my main concern - and this can only be done properly with a completely open attitude to substances and their use/misuse, the quality control of supply and the taxes raised to fund treatment for those who need it.

Crowley's very positive too! I find it's all in how you read him and if you have a resiliant enough sense of humour to study his works without becoming enraged/disgusted etc! :D

[cookie_dude]

Opium is illegal because big pharma want to control how much pain relief you can have. If it was legalised you could grow and harvest opium in your back garden and cut out the middle man.

Your pain relief would be Free, so no need to go mug some old lady.

[krakhead]

Opium is illegal because big pharma want to control how much pain relief you can have. If it was legalised you could grow and harvest opium in your back garden and cut out the middle man.

Your pain relief would be Free, so no need to go mug some old lady.

http://www.nickys-nursery.co.uk/seeds/pages/page10pop.htm

Buy some opium poppy seeds here and grow your own! :D

[cookie_dude]

got hold of some yesterday from someones garden.:D

[krakhead]

got hold of some yesterday from someones garden.:D

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/opiates/opiates_faq.shtml

Be safe. Knowledge is power. Arm yourself.

[cookie_dude]

I went to ryton organic gardens (http://www.gardenorganic.org.uk/gardens/ryton.php) and took a few seed from them, so they should be safe.
That link you gave looks great though. I'm thinking if the SHTF a source of natural pain relief might be useful.

[hadabusa]

in portugal it worked out very well.
less users,less deaths etc

if its legal and reasonably taxed,itd be all so cheap, crime would go away(the1s for money, tripping heads doing stuff would prolly increase)

war on drugs cant be won, cept tianamen style .

in the usa, this wont happen, cia and wallstreet would go broke.

[pri01]

Opium is illegal because big pharma want to control how much pain relief you can have. If it was legalised you could grow and harvest opium in your back garden and cut out the middle man.

Your pain relief would be Free, so no need to go mug some old lady.

Actually, pain relief is readilly available for anyone who needs it and there is no excuse these days for anyone to be in pain. Big pharma would rather make as much money as they can by selling as much as they can at the highest price that they can.

The barrier is actually the Doctor. If he is afraid of patients getting addicted, he won't prescribe strong painkillers.

[godgoo]

I don't know much about the law, but if you did that you would be criminalising groups of people whom have posession of the drug for personal use. This is why anabolic steroids are legal for personal use. I import steroids all the time, even brought steroids into the country from greece and alls I paid was the duty. So I am familiar with this side of the drug law. To make it legal for groups to posses then it has to be viable for all counry men/women to posses the compound also. Cass C pentalties would apply for redistribution on a hard drug. Noty very smart :)

[branjo]

I think he legalization of drugs would never be allowed, not out of some "just" cause but because they are serving a good purpose now for those that seem like they are turning a blind eye, when in fact they are arranging for them to come into our countries.

Firstly most drugs can be used as a medicine, Ganja is very beneficial to health if you ingest it, it does nothing for your health by smoking it, other than relax you and give your mind some relaxation time, always good in small quantities and very easy to become dependent on but like a soft kind of addiction.

Then your opiates are the ultimate pain relievers, heroin coding morphine and highly addictive because well, they give an awesome high....lol.

But most of all they keep the prisons full to capacity and this I think is their biggest draw for TPTP to keep them on the streets, as long as there is the threat of a crazed drugged up person who will rob or rape you for "money" (which is another drug of sorts) then they have the element of fear the people are providing for the people.

I mean the War for Terror is exactly that, they rid places like Afghanistan of anyone with hardened principles and install a nation of opium farmers, this is the fact of the war. The pharmaceutical industry I would think is far mightier than the Oil industry, I would hazard a guess that its the main source of income for most of the PTB, its not like the human race is going to get well anytime soon. The oil will soon dry up so that's not stable reoccurring income but unless the human race wakes up to using their brains and starts thinking about healing themselves with natural medicines then we will always be a nation of pill poppers, and we will always be lining the pockets of the rich.

Education on drugs is the only way to give people the power to just decide for themselves, and I don't mean go to school high as a kite..lol

[captain coconut]

my friend recently died of a heroin overdose... that stuff is bad shit. he was only 19.

[hadabusa]

still, govt should have no business telling you what is allowed to put in YOUR body.
period ,not up for debatte .

be educated or be a sheep whos being led all life by ?authority?

the only way to stop tyranny,too.

[Ian2day]

Black Ops is concerned with all things illegal. In that it is used as a front for Organised crime to casue untold misery and mayhem in our World. Let me make this absolutely clear, so that there is no mistake here. It is our World, let me say that again so there is no misunderstanding on their part. It is our World adn only by having this attitiude will we ever stand a chance of overcoming the oppression adn exploitation which they have done to us.

[mikethepunk]

I will mainly concentrate on the heroin argument.

Legal heroin should be available via prescription to registered drug addicts, and only them.

If this policy was introduced, huge problems would be solved in the blink of an eye, and there would be no down side to this at all.

1) 4 out of 5 crimes are committed by people who want money for drugs, normally heroin. 80% of crime has now vanished in an instant, and the jails will have room for people that are currently on the streets but who deserve to be locked up.

2) Organized crime would be almost wiped out as most of it is drug related.

3) As crime levels would be so low, the argument for excessive CCTV monitoring and the march of the Big Brother state would be eradicated.

4) The health of drug addicts would improve as their heroin would not contain rat poison,etc.

5) The CIA would not have all their drug money to finance their black ops.

No 5 is of course the reason why drugs will never be legalized. By the way, I am not suggesting that ANYONE should be able to walk into a pharmacy and get heroin, only people who became addicted to it by the existing 'street deal' illegal way should.

After all, doctors prescribe methadone, why not heroin?

I do not believe anyone would deliberately become a street heroin addict, just so he could then get the stuff for free from a doctor.

Also, drug addicts prescribed heroin are not going to sell it to anyone else as they need it for themselves.

In Liverpool in the 90's, doctor's were allowed to prescribe heroin to registered addicts. Many of these addicts started to sort themselves out and stopped committing crime and got healthier.

Unfortunately, an edition of the US program "60 minutes" did a hit piece on this and the UK government was pressured into stopping funding for this 'free heroin' experiment. The drug addicts involved in this then resorted to their old lives of crime, illegal heroin and jail.

Lastly if I was sent to jail, I would probably become a heroin addict just to cope with being banged up.

Alas, common sense, it seems is illegal, as well as heroin.

PS, Portugal has decriminalized heroin, with very beneficial results, basically my arguments have been physically proved, see below.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2009/07/how_portugal_treats_drug_addic.html

I agree on the heroin issue.

[drhemp]

They won't legalise heroin, as they make too much money from the illegal trade; why do you think they went into Afghanistan, well one of the reasons was because the Taliban was making too good a job of wiping out the opium fields.

Another reason they won't allow heroin addicts to get heroin on prescription is because then there would be very few (if any) deaths from heroin and virtually all crime associated with heroin addiction would be wiped out, thus solving social problems in society the NWO do not want solved. No point having a totalitarian police state if there is very low crime in our towns (or even rural areas where the scourge of illegal heroin in some places is a problem). How could they scare people from the dangers of drugs if noone died from them?

[thelyran]

.and the even greater crime of this being outlawed,

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/5409/mynewplantpicture.jpg (http://img263.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mynewplantpicture.jpg)

What most never understood why it won't be legalised.It's simple,when the United Nations was formed,they had to think of a bill they could ratify,like a token motion of power.With America's (US) pressure to justify their drugwar,passed a law whereby 100 nations where signaturary to prohibiting marijuana as a form of trade,manufacture and consumption of any form,of said weed.Strangely paving the way for polluting industries all which have in some connection or other...oil.And of course it's reconstituted by- products,including medicines and pills.Chemicals and catalyse,all madness,for now more than ever,this plant could repair erosion,recondition fringe deserts back to prairies,provide clothing and paper,without for need of chemical extraction,and the youth drunken down the street...a smoker won't smack you out,unless you ask for it.And the women are cooler on it,none of this Paris Hilton style nights.and they don't get hurt.
You know what goes on today.

[pegcityevolve]

I believe we should take baby steps. First we'll decriminalize cannabis (because taxing it would be stupid, to save the economy...haha). Then mushrooms, I find they are generally the second most accepted drug out there when dealing with the public. Then MDMA, get that pure stuff rolling in Texas again, we really do need the love now, the empathy.

Then LSD, perhaps spray it in chemtrails instead of barium oxide. :cool:

[arty2000]

the biggest drug dealers are the governments of this world either through so called illegal drugs or through big pharma;)

[xpleet]

It's so sad seeing mainstream-drugs users smoking and smoking Cannabis and doing just fine, balanced and relaxed but as soon as they start drinking almost all of them lose their minds.

[branjo]

They won't legalise heroin, as they make too much money from the illegal trade; why do you think they went into Afghanistan, well one of the reasons was because the Taliban was making too good a job of wiping out the opium fields.

Another reason they won't allow heroin addicts to get heroin on prescription is because then there would be very few (if any) deaths from heroin and virtually all crime associated with heroin addiction would be wiped out, thus solving social problems in society the NWO do not want solved. No point having a totalitarian police state if there is very low crime in our towns (or even rural areas where the scourge of illegal heroin in some places is a problem). How could they scare people from the dangers of drugs if noone died from them?

Exactly, they need the problems associated with drug use to condone the prison sentences for drug use so in turn they can protect the good unaware public from the fiends that use drugs, now Afghanistan supplies 80-90% of the worlds opium now. When bush stood on that carrier in front of a sign that said Mission Accomplished concerning Iraq it wasn't cause he had freed any damn thing at all, it was because he had secured money for the elite for the next whatever time period, in Oil and Opium, probably the 2 biggest bonuses of war in general for the so called elite. I call them bonuses because even though they are cause for concern for the antiwar movement, they are not and never were the deciding motivation for war, its always been deeper and darker than that.

[mikethepunk]

They won't legalise heroin, as they make too much money from the illegal trade; why do you think they went into Afghanistan, well one of the reasons was because the Taliban was making too good a job of wiping out the opium fields.

Another reason they won't allow heroin addicts to get heroin on prescription is because then there would be very few (if any) deaths from heroin and virtually all crime associated with heroin addiction would be wiped out, thus solving social problems in society the NWO do not want solved. No point having a totalitarian police state if there is very low crime in our towns (or even rural areas where the scourge of illegal heroin in some places is a problem). How could they scare people from the dangers of drugs if noone died from them?

No that is not the reason they wont legalize it.

The reason is is that they make millions of dollars on methadone clinics. This is something I know more about than anyone else on this forum and I am not proud of that fact.

[mrindigo]

Forgive me here, but I'm failing to see how legalizing Heroin would be a good thing; Well apart from removing one of the chief sources of black market money.

People abuse prescription drugs all the time. Just because they're prescription doesn't mean they're harmless. People get addicted to Oxycodone all the time.

I don't foresee that cutting back on any sort of civilian level crime at all. People will still steal things and commit violent acts to feed their habit. Excessive drug use can lead to impaired judgment. Heroin and cocaine are pretty potent and just make the users want to do more. The body also starts to build tolerances, making the previous amounts not as effective. Naturally they would seek more, which inevitably would cost more.

I'm also not comfortable with the notion of people driving around high as a kite, or operating heavy machinery like construction equipment. I can do without walking down a sidewalk and having some knucklehead high on prescription heroin, drop a pile of I beams on me from a crane. This is because again, excessive drug use can impair judgment.

Pot is another story though. I don't have an issue with that as long as it's not smoked around infants and young children. Who knows what effects the THC could have on a developing brain.

[motokeiru]

It is insane to allow governaments to tell us what we are allowed to do.

[cpfc12]

It is insane to allow governaments to tell us what we are allowed to do.

Would you say it's insane for governments to tell you not to murder, rape ?
Saying that they tell you to join the army where you can do all those things :P

[motokeiru]

hehe indeed murderers and rapists must feel at home in the army.

[soothseeker]

I'm also not comfortable with the notion of people driving around high as a kite, or operating heavy machinery like construction equipment. I can do without walking down a sidewalk and having some knucklehead high on prescription heroin, drop a pile of I beams on me from a crane. This is because again, excessive drug use can impair judgment.

Unfortunately methadone has a far more medicating effect than heroin does. In other words, people being prescribed methadone are much less capable of driving / operating machines than say a heroin user on a comparable does.

Methadone is roughly four times more addictive than heroin and takes an average of 28 days to come out of a persons system, compared to the much quicker time of only 5-7 days for heroin.

The vast majority of people prescribed methadone find it does not completely replace the need for heroin and simply end up using the two in conjunction with each other. This will often lead to the person giving a heroin positive urine sample and loosing his/her prescription. Then the person will have a tolerance much higher than the one they first entered the methadone program with in the first place.

Another issue is the way stats are both collected and analysed. In short when a person enters into a program they are classed as a user and recored in the official home office records. When that user stops and leaves the program even if its not been completed, it's recored as a success!

I would completely agree that the decriminalisation of heroin and monitored prescription would have a positive effect on society as a whole. However, this alone would not tackle the reasons behind a persons usage of such substances in first place.

[cpfc12]

I really couldn't see how it would benefit us, as a society, or individuals, the drugs we got going in this society, legal and illegal have fucked us up enough. I would like to see myself open minded, but i really wouldn't want to see any of my family members go into hard drugs

[biblegirl]

It is insane to allow governaments to tell us what we are allowed to do.

That's what we do everyday when we complain about the legal/illegal issue, ALLOWING them to tell us what we can and can't do.

I can't complain too much that they control who gets manufactured heroin and who does not, since it's their corrupt product to begin with, so they can do whatever they want in that respect. I won't tell them who they can and can't sell to.

However if they prevent me or keep me from growing poppies and harvesting the opium myself, or even turning some for profit, well that is just crap.

Poppies have been around for how many thousands of years? Yet when did heroin addiction become a problem? Hmm, just since the government has made it into something dangerous or "illegal" without a doctor's note. Interesting :rolleyes:.

[biblegirl]

Question:

Why in this thread has noone stopped to ponder the difference between "legal" and "lawful"?

Marijuana is only "ILLEGAL" if you give your consent to be governed (whether tacitly or explicitly) by the Gov and it's Acts and Statute 'laws'.

Marijuana can be LAWFULLY grown, smoked, etc, by someone who has revoked consent to be governed by the government's Acts and Statutes.

Then they no longer apply to you.

Feel me?

A PERSON cannot grow or smoke weed.

A living man on the land CAN.

If you don't like the Gov's laws, it's simple. Don't abide by them!

(There's a process to this, by the way...) ;)

Some good points in here, although as far as the last line goes, I think we would be better off realizing our sovereignty does not require paperwork.

[gods sun]

heroin legal on medical grounds i really dont wana see this legalised for everyones use. but mdma and weed im all for as i think that would be enough and also the freedom of legalising psycoactive drugs such as magic mushrooms.

heroin is nasty even if its proven safe its natural but when it comes to addiction and people lifes it somthing to think.

heroin is a bit too far in my opinion but leaglising weed would be a good start.

[michael christopher]

Heroin junkies would still sell heroin to make money. If they are addicts, they can go pick up as much heroin as they need, or they will resort to crime in order to get the extra money they need to buy the remainder of their heroin illegally.

That being said, if all drugs were legal I have to agree that the crime-rate would drop dramatically. Even the amount of crime from registered heroin addicts illegally selling heroin would be significantly lower than it is now.

[thelyran]

...If any of you seen or experienced housing commision areas the domestic
violence and kids going to school with little to eat or clothing,that's another reason to legalise.Without the financial burden addicted parents could channel more funds into doing the responsible thing in financial and emotional support of the child upbringing.

[mrindigo]

Unfortunately methadone has a far more medicating effect than heroin does. In other words, people being prescribed methadone are much less capable of driving / operating machines than say a heroin user on a comparable does.

Methadone is roughly four times more addictive than heroin and takes an average of 28 days to come out of a persons system, compared to the much quicker time of only 5-7 days for heroin.

The vast majority of people prescribed methadone find it does not completely replace the need for heroin and simply end up using the two in conjunction with each other. This will often lead to the person giving a heroin positive urine sample and loosing his/her prescription. Then the person will have a tolerance much higher than the one they first entered the methadone program with in the first place.

Another issue is the way stats are both collected and analysed. In short when a person enters into a program they are classed as a user and recored in the official home office records. When that user stops and leaves the program even if its not been completed, it's recored as a success!

I would completely agree that the decriminalisation of heroin and monitored prescription would have a positive effect on society as a whole. However, this alone would not tackle the reasons behind a persons usage of such substances in first place.

That's some interesting info there, soothseeker. I was not aware of how addictive that really is, thank you for filling me in.

[mrindigo]

...If any of you seen or experienced housing commision areas the domestic
violence and kids going to school with little to eat or clothing,that's another reason to legalise.Without the financial burden addicted parents could channel more funds into doing the responsible thing in financial and emotional support of the child upbringing.

That's a good point. My only concern is people abusing their prescriptions and potentially causing harm to others, be it unintentionally, or otherwise.

While there are some valid points, and I find myself being a little swayed on the issue, I don't believe all should be legalized. I don't know how bad methamphetamine addiction is in Europe or Australia, but it's pretty bad here in the U.S, namely in the central area. It hasn't quite taken off here in the east just yet, but there is a growing number of users. Meth is just vile and really has no positive effects. It can cause damage to the brain, lungs, teeth and gums, cause skin lesions and infections, kidney damage, strokes, seizures, paranoia, increased blood pressure, irregular heart beats and possible heart attack, lead poisoning from the lab 'tools', premature birth, and birth defects. It's nasty stuff.

http://www.bozeman.net/bozeman/police/images/drugs/MethJunkie.jpg

http://archive.seacoastonline.com/news/10_8b.jpg

[thelyran]

That's a good point. My only concern is people abusing their prescriptions and potentially causing harm to others, be it unintentionally, or otherwise.

While there are some valid points, and I find myself being a little swayed on the issue, I don't believe all should be legalized. I don't know how bad methamphetamine addiction is in Europe or Australia, but it's pretty bad here in the U.S, namely in the central area. It hasn't quite taken off here in the east just yet, but there is a growing number of users. Meth is just vile and really has no positive effects. It can cause damage to the brain, lungs, teeth and gums, cause skin lesions and infections, kidney damage, strokes, seizures, paranoia, increased blood pressure, irregular heart beats and possible heart attack, lead poisoning from the lab 'tools', premature birth, and birth defects. It's nasty stuff.

http://www.bozeman.net/bozeman/police/images/drugs/MethJunkie.jpg

http://archive.seacoastonline.com/news/10_8b.jpg

...it most certainly is sir,but at pharmaceutical grade I was able to exist quite well without blowing my looks,when that dealer moved on,I got a cut mix
instantly destroying two molars.That bottom photo,I remembered they used on TV as the dangers of Ice,an enhanced pseudo-ephedrine dirivative.
...Not that I'm justifying it,it's evil,and detrimental,but some people won't stop using it.There's whole communitites of aboriginal people here in Australia
who sniff petrol,if I could give them weed I would,it's just many forms of drug taking have existed for thousands of years,and maybe avoiding over burdening tax payers with gaols/jails,police and hospital words,clean pharmaceutical grade drugs available to users cheap or free does have alot of merit behind it.But thankyou sir,you do a good observation,Jase.

[soothseeker]

Going off topic somewhat:

I've always loved the disinformation concerning weed, that it's the so called gateway drug and hence should be kept illegal and the other argument that one puff can turn you into a complete raving nut. Complete BS, IMO.

Something you hardly ever hear about is the effects of smoking nicotine. I feel that cigarettes are actually the gateway drug. Think about how many people you know that take drugs but don't actually smoke. Someone who has already bowed to the pear pressure to take up smoking is surly more likely to follow the same crowd further down the road.

As for THC causing psychosis, in a recent study into the myriad of compounds contained within cannabis they actually found an anti-psychotic. Now thats not something like to mention on the news.

Back on topic:

Meth-amphetamine has not really made an impact here in the UK (thankfully).

[mrindigo]

...it most certainly is sir,but at pharmaceutical grade I was able to exist quite well without blowing my looks,when that dealer moved on,I cut a cut mixed
instantly destroying to molars.That bottom photo,I remembered they used on TV as the dangers of Ice,an enhanced pseudo-ephedrine dirivative.
...Not that I'm justifying it,it's evil,and detrimental,but some people won't stop using it.There's whole communitites of aboriginal people here in Australia
who sniff petrol,if I could give them weed I would,it's just many forms of drug taking have existed for thousands of years,and maybe avoiding over burdening tax payers with gaols/jails,police and hospital words,clean pharmaceutical grade drugs available to users cheap or free does have alot of merit behind it.But thankyou sir,you do a good observation,Jase.

That's true, that most of the people in jail are there for drugs. It does cost quite a bit for the tax payers. Over here the jails are overflowing with people put in for drug related charges, while most of the real crooks are living the high life. I can see pharmaceutical grade being a bit better, as they aren't made in makeshift labs with questionable materials. It's just hard to break free from the anti drug mentality for me. I've seen a lot of good people hit rock bottom because of their lack of self control. Thank you for the perspective. :)

[mrindigo]

Going off topic somewhat:

I've always loved the disinformation concerning weed, that it's the so called gateway drug and hence should be kept illegal and the other argument that one puff can turn you into a complete raving nut. Complete BS, IMO.

Something you hardly ever hear about is the effects of smoking nicotine. I feel that cigarettes are actually the gateway drug. Think about how many people you know that take drugs but don't actually smoke. Someone who has already bowed to the pear pressure to take up smoking is surly more likely to follow the same crowd further down the road.

As for THC causing psychosis, in a recent study into the myriad of compounds contained within cannabis they actually found an anti-psychotic. Now thats not something like to mention on the news.

Back on topic:

Meth-amphetamine has not really made an impact here in the UK (thankfully).

Though I don't smoke weed myself, I agree with you. I've never met a person who smokes it that's insane. Most of the people I know who do, are very contemplative and methodical. Nicotine and Caffeine are much worse than weed too, yet they're in quite a few products, some intentionally added in. What a strange world we live in, huh?

Be thankful that meth has not taken off there in UK. The labs are usually pretty pathetic and makeshift. Combine that with the caustic and explosive chemicals used to make it, you've got yourself a ticking time bomb. People have blown off their limbs cooking the stuff.

[branjo]

Going off topic somewhat:

I've always loved the disinformation concerning weed, that it's the so called gateway drug and hence should be kept illegal and the other argument that one puff can turn you into a complete raving nut. Complete BS, IMO.

Something you hardly ever hear about is the effects of smoking nicotine. I feel that cigarettes are actually the gateway drug. Think about how many people you know that take drugs but don't actually smoke. Someone who has already bowed to the pear pressure to take up smoking is surly more likely to follow the same crowd further down the road.

As for THC causing psychosis, in a recent study into the myriad of compounds contained within cannabis they actually found an anti-psychotic. Now thats not something like to mention on the news.

Back on topic:

Meth-amphetamine has not really made an impact here in the UK (thankfully).

Good post, Ciggs are a gateway drug, as a kid they the most accessible, even I wonder what came first, the cigarette or the joint? and if you like weed disinfo if you haven't seen it yet you will laugh your ass off when you do.

Its called "Reefer Madness", its what every weed smoker needs to know about that evil evil evil drug...lmao.

[meksar]

Has anyone seen the film Requiem for a Dream, the scene where Jared Leto's character is in hospital for a bad arm and when the doctor makes sure he snatches the morphine syringes while he leaves him alone speaks a thousand words. The only "illegal" intoxicant i have used is cannabis, however the black market of the drug trade is another form order out of chaos and has to end if we want to live in a more harmonized society.

[motokeiru]

That's what we do everyday when we complain about the legal/illegal issue, ALLOWING them to tell us what we can and can't do.

I can't complain too much that they control who gets manufactured heroin and who does not, since it's their corrupt product to begin with, so they can do whatever they want in that respect. I won't tell them who they can and can't sell to.

However if they prevent me or keep me from growing poppies and harvesting the opium myself, or even turning some for profit, well that is just crap.

Poppies have been around for how many thousands of years? Yet when did heroin addiction become a problem? Hmm, just since the government has made it into something dangerous or "illegal" without a doctor's note. Interesting :rolleyes:.

Yes that's what I'm saying wich is why legal or illegal doesn't matter, what matters is if it's good or bad for you and only you have the right to decide what is good or bad for yourself.

[branjo]

Every drug at some level came from a plant, but they strained the shit out of it to remove any beneficial properties and we end up with an incomplete substance other than how nature intended it to be used. Its not an accident that all these plants paved the way for life on this planet, nature provided a kitchen and a pharmacy and instincts to use them, and we come along and think nature messed up and our way will be better.

The way things stand now I think it really would be insane to legalize all drugs, only because of the intense "honey moon period" certain members of the public would have with them, which would lead to a boat load of problems. But if the heroin producers were pummeled to the ground instead of being pat on the back ie "The War on Terror". I mean in Afghanistan in a year or two, everyone in the country will own an Escalade judging by the Heroin that is now pumping out of it...lol

I mean very few junkies take smack to get high, they basically take it to have an air of normality and functionality so they can cope with life for a while, then its the spiraling dive into feeling shit again.

There is not one shred of denial attached to knowing our drug problems in this world were a calculated factor in controlling this world, Alcohol, Ciggs, Cocaine, Heroin, all surpass the actual need to use them. I mean I smoke and I do basically enjoy a smoke but I'm not getting an outstanding buzz of them either. I, like the heroin junkie, take them to feel somewhat normal, less anxious, more relaxed. Many use Alcohol for the same reason, but it has gotten way out of control.

I don't mind people being arrested for selling drugs, that comes with the territory in my book, but I frown on people who decide for themselves to take drugs and get labeled "scum" by society, loosing their kids for 1 joint kind of bullshit, usually informed on by people who will come in from work pour themselves a Scotch first and then talk to their children after. I think we as a society need to look up in the dictionary more for the word "Hypocrite".

There definitely is a basis for decriminalizing certain drugs but it would have to come after we clean house of all the SOB's that are orchestrating societies need for them. We can't fix the drug problem while these people remain hidden and above the law. Like Mr Clinton, as if the worst he did was get a blowjob in the oval office, for him to have been as blind as he says he was when all those tons of Heroin and Cocaine were being run through his own airport, he shouldn't be able to find his ass in broad daylight with both hands never mind finding the white house.

I don't think the people that hold the world by the short and curlies are in any way shape or form unintelligent, but their flaw is not in their own level of intelligence, their flaw is assuming the peoples level of intelligence. Hopefully that revelation will comeback to bite them in the arse when sooner or later "they" depend on "us" for their survival.

[tjohn]

i think weed should be legal....

tastes good, natural, gets you relax....taste good did i said it gets you high and tastes good?You stoned? :D

[tjohn]

Hopefully that revelation will comeback to bite them in the arse when sooner or later "they" depend on "us" for their survival.They do depend on us already. And they get away with it because people cannot see the game so like sheep they comply.

[tjohn]

... Social deprivation in cases is caused by drugs, if your parents are addicted and spend most of their money on heroin, they are hardly going to have the time to spend the limited money they have on the childs clothes, all mmoney goes to the dealer.True but if Heroin was available on the NHS to people already addicted that wouldn't happen. Instead they give out Methadone (free on the NHS for most people) which I understand can itself be addictive. So why don't they give out measured amounts of pure Heroin which unlike as found on the street would not be contaminated?

The answer is that Big Pharma makes big money selling Methadone - and while pretending otherwise, the PTB secretly encourage the growth of poppies for drugs such as Heroin, to fund warfare and black projects which involve killing lots more people than Heroin does.

[drhemp]

True but if Heroin was available on the NHS to people already addicted that wouldn't happen. Instead they give out Methadone (free on the NHS for most people) which I understand can itself be addictive. So why don't they give out measured amounts of pure Heroin which unlike as found on the street would not be contaminated?

The answer is that Big Pharma makes big money selling Methadone - and while pretending otherwise, the PTB secretly encourage the growth of poppies for drugs such as Heroin, to fund warfare and black projects which involve killing lots more people than Heroin does.



Excellent post. Also don't forget all the crime in society that comes from drug addiction, as addicts steal to fund their addiction. If addicts had access to safer prescribed heroin then they would not need to steal to feed their habbits, which is not what the Government wants.

Less crime in society = less need for a Police State.

[krakhead]

You have to take into account the fact that heroin would need to be given approx 3 times a day, methadone is a once daily dose. Dispensation costs account for far more of the money surrounding methadone prescribing than the drug itself which is really quite cheap.

If heroin were to be prescribed widely the patient would have to either 1) visit their pharmacy 3 times a day which would mean the dispensation cost would triple from that of methadone or 2) the three doses would be given to the patient to take away for the day - hugely increasing the risk of diversion.

[apekteina lordosis]

a gram of heroin on the streets of afghanistan costs the equivalent of 5quid, and it is 100% pure.

an average smack addict in the uk has a 250quid a day habit, that is to say they spend 250quid and get 3grams of heroin. however the actual amount of heroin in each gram is around about the 30% mark... so the actual amount of heroin they are injecting into their body is just under a gram- and it costs them 250quid!

if heroin was legal in the uk it could be bulk imported from afghanistan, reducing the 5quid a gram street price, and taking into account transport/distribution/tax it could easily be sold by chemists for between 10-15quid.

this would mean (obviously) that heroin addicts would go from having to spend 250quid a day to feed their habit to a daily outlay of 15quid.

faced with the choice of committing crime/selling their body on a near daily basis to gain the funds to pay for the habit at the rist of being sent to jail, or working for a living flipping burgers... which option do you think heroin addicts would prefer?

a unposken reality about the nhs is the number of doctors who are addicted to heroin, however they manage to hold down their job and be useful members of society. why? well they have access to a pure supply and they are educated about the use of drugs. if doctors can manage to hold down a job there is no reason why other heroin addicts given the opportunity.

for all of us who aren't smackheads we would see a big reduction in theft type crimes and thus insurance premiums would be vastly reduced. sure, there would still be casualties and victims, but it would only be the heroin users and the people who care about them who might get "hurt".

btw for the record a gram of cocaine on the streets of colombia also costs the equivalent of 5quid, however it is only 99% pure (100% pure cocaine is impossible!). so the same notion for heroin could be transposed to cocaine and crack cocaine.

i don't think heroin, crack cocaine and cocaine use it very cool, they are addictive and destructive however people will use them regardless of the legal position and the current illegalness only serves to fuel theft type crime, fear on the streets and death.

the very fact that politicians fail to mention any of the above only goes to prove they don't have our best interests at heart and simply put, they are the biggest bunch of murdering scumbags on the planet. :)

[drhemp]

You have to take into account the fact that heroin would need to be given approx 3 times a day, methadone is a once daily dose. Dispensation costs account for far more of the money surrounding methadone prescribing than the drug itself which is really quite cheap.

If heroin were to be prescribed widely the patient would have to either 1) visit their pharmacy 3 times a day which would mean the dispensation cost would triple from that of methadone or 2) the three doses would be given to the patient to take away for the day - hugely increasing the risk of diversion.

How come they have successful schemes in The Netherlands or Switzerland?

[tjohn]

How come they have successful schemes in The Netherlands or Switzerland?
For those who didn't bother please look at this and see the video on the page:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2009/07/how_portugal_treats_drug_addic.html

Also, listen to the audio on:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_7647000/7647801.stm

[branjo]

Damn that's what I call having the balls to try and fix things, doesn't look like they were wrong either, go Portugal!

[majorion]

IMHO, Cannabis must be legalized. It's a very soft substance, and I find it outrageous that Alcohol is socially acceptable and legal when a simple relaxant like Marijuana or Hashish is illegal. Alcohol has caused and continues to cause countless cases of accidents, disasters, fights, big family problems, and can even take out your liver quicker than anything else. Does THC do that? Has there ever been a case of Marijuana violence? Has there ever been a case of a Marijuana overdose or death? Has there ever been any trouble caused by Marijuana? -- No, nill to never!

As for Heroin and those hard drugs...Let me be honest, I used to be really deep into all that stuff, and needless to say, I wouldn't support Heroin legalization, or Ice, or even (and especially) Benzodiazepines. Those substances indeed cause much damage to mental health and general well being. So I definitely disagree with the OP on that.

Regards,
Majorion

[tjohn]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8045487.stm
Figures obtained by the BBC suggest almost a third of cocaine seized by police is now less than 9% pure, the lowest recorded purity level.

Joy Newman from the Forensic Science Service explains how drug gangs are using increasing amounts of chemicals to dilute cocaine powder.I think it reasonable to assume that Heroin on the street is also impure and diluted with (other) chemicals.

In regard to Methadone I once found a full bottle on the street! Being curious I took a sip and it made me violently puke. So this is the stuff they give to replace Heroin.

[branjo]

Has there ever been a case of Marijuana violence?

I dunno dude, If I was stoned and it was a case of the last piece of cake going to me or you, If I were you, I'd watch my back lol:D

[majorion]

I dunno dude, If I was stoned and it was a case of the last piece of cake going to me or you, If I were you, I'd watch my back lol:D

No problem,

I'm a friendly stoner!

http://intransientautumn.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/chocolate-cake.jpg

Cheers :)

[soothseeker]

Reading Nexus today there was quite an interesting article:

Headline: United Nations Backs Drug Decriminalisation In World Drug Report

The UN has gone back on their normally dogmatic view on drugs and have now praised Portugal's decriminalisation which removed criminal penalties in 2001. A view which is the total opposite to their old stance on the subject of Portugal.

Definitely a step closer to where we need to be to tackle this issues and its wider implications. But would have to agree with some of the posts made in this thread, “who are they to tell me what substances I can and can't put in my body”. Especially when the authorities are adding things like fluoride and estrogen in our water supplies.

So I can't a grow a certain herb in my garden, purely for my own use. But they can add chemicals I want nothing to do with in my water.

Makes me SICK

[branjo]

I agree, hypocrisy in action.
Its a matter of "take our drugs or else"
Or simply just a case of forced medication.

[energi]

I will mainly concentrate on the heroin argument.

Legal heroin should be available via prescription to registered drug addicts, and only them.

If this policy was introduced, huge problems would be solved in the blink of an eye, and there would be no down side to this at all.

1) 4 out of 5 crimes are committed by people who want money for drugs, normally heroin. 80% of crime has now vanished in an instant, and the jails will have room for people that are currently on the streets but who deserve to be locked up.

2) Organized crime would be almost wiped out as most of it is drug related.

3) As crime levels would be so low, the argument for excessive CCTV monitoring and the march of the Big Brother state would be eradicated.

4) The health of drug addicts would improve as their heroin would not contain rat poison,etc.

5) The CIA would not have all their drug money to finance their black ops.

No 5 is of course the reason why drugs will never be legalized. By the way, I am not suggesting that ANYONE should be able to walk into a pharmacy and get heroin, only people who became addicted to it by the existing 'street deal' illegal way should.

After all, doctors prescribe methadone, why not heroin?

I do not believe anyone would deliberately become a street heroin addict, just so he could then get the stuff for free from a doctor.

Also, drug addicts prescribed heroin are not going to sell it to anyone else as they need it for themselves.

In Liverpool in the 90's, doctor's were allowed to prescribe heroin to registered addicts. Many of these addicts started to sort themselves out and stopped committing crime and got healthier.

Unfortunately, an edition of the US program "60 minutes" did a hit piece on this and the UK government was pressured into stopping funding for this 'free heroin' experiment. The drug addicts involved in this then resorted to their old lives of crime, illegal heroin and jail.

Lastly if I was sent to jail, I would probably become a heroin addict just to cope with being banged up.

Alas, common sense, it seems is illegal, as well as heroin.

PS, Portugal has decriminalized heroin, with very beneficial results, basically my arguments have been physically proved, see below.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2009/07/how_portugal_treats_drug_addic.html
I fully agree. There should also be clean needles available for users/abusers, anything other is inhumane.

[fromthatshow]

Why only drug addicts? What about people in pain?
I think people should have full control over what pain killers they use. If you control the pain relief you can control the masses.

Couldn't agree more.

I am very much pro-heroin. The ONLY reason heroin use can be unhealthy is because the necessary lifestyle you lead from it being expensive and illegal. Legal and prescribed, it's healthier than many pharmaceutical drugs that are prescribed.