An Electric Car That Recharges in 11 Minutes

[anyuser]

MIT's Project elEVen: an Electric Car That Recharges in Under 11 Minutes (http://www.popsci.com/cars/article/2009-07/car-you-can-recharge-under-10-minutes)

MIT's Electric Vehicle Team is working on Project elEVen, an electric car which aspires to top 100 mph, travel 200 miles on a single charge, and rejuice in around 10 minutes.

The team is starting with a Lincoln Milan hybrid, whose engine they have gutted and converted to all-electric power. Their goal is to create an electric car that has mainstream appeal, both in looks and performance, while staying true to an all-electric design.

This team of student engineers hope to accomplish the feat on three fronts: for speed, they hope to use a three-phase AC motor that can push out 130 continuous kilowatts and is normally used power a 33,000-pound bus. For range, they want to use lithium nanophosphate battery cells from A123 -- those have been on the market for a few years. And for rapid recharging capability, they plan to use a 350-kilowatt recharging system that will get a thirsty car up and going in under 11 minutes.

PC World says they'll need roughly 7,900 of those battery cells to power the 250-horsepower car, and will have to use MIT's own power plant because the 350-kilowatt charger could blow fuses in 20 homes at once.

cont: MIT's Project elEVen: an Electric Car That Recharges in Under 11 Minutes (http://www.popsci.com/cars/article/2009-07/car-you-can-recharge-under-10-minutes)

http://www.popsci.com/files/imagecache/article_image_large/files/articles/mit10min1.jpg

[mynameis]

Wow...WTG MIT FTW! I never thought I'd see something develop like this so soon. I wonder what the charger costs to build? Oh nm...I see it takes lots of batteries :mad:

[anyuser]

New tech detects if you're too tired to drive and even smacks you with a burst of smell to keep you alert

It is estimated that about 100,000 crashes a year are caused by sleepyhead drivers. Now, scientists are combating driver fatigue by developing systems that monitor your level of alertness -- and Nissan is hoping to wake you up with a blast of smell.

Scientists working together in American and India have created an in-car camera that senses when the driver begins to yawn. The camera captures a sequence of images that distinguishes a yawn from any other facial action including talking, smiling, or laughing. It also has no trouble catching a yawn despite angle, skin color, the wearing of sunglasses, or the contrast and intensity of the light. Once the yawn is detected, the driver can be notified that he or she should pull over and take a break.

That's where Nissan's new Forest AC steps in. Using an array of sensors, the car detects what mood you might be in and responds accordingly with aromatherapy. The Forest AC "systematically controls cabin temperature, ventilation, aroma, and humidity to create an optimal interior environment." They also claim that if the car detects you are getting sleepy, it will blast you with scents designed to increase your attention. They plan to install the Forest in the Nissan Fuga, which will ship in Japan sometime this year.

cont: Automatic Aromatherapy to Keep Drivers Awake (http://www.popsci.com/cars/article/2009-07/falling-asleep-wheel-your-car-nose)

http://www.popsci.com/files/imagecache/article_image_large/files/articles/nissan-forest-ac-diagram.jpg

[nth_degree]

POINTLESS.........electric cars are pointless in so many ways it makes my head spin but we still have to listen to a diatribe of propaganda about them grrrrrrr. :(

[neomagic]

I wouldn't say it's pointless.

[anyuser]

will be coupled with this: Electronic Mother-in-Law: Nissan Develops Turn Assistant for Curvy Roads (http://www.slyck.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=48194&p=528123#p528047)

Nissan has made another stride toward that strange but often-promised future: cars that drive themselves. A new system set for release in Japan links information from a car's real-time GPS navigation with existing radar-guided safety tech to help drivers make smooth turns on curvy roads. The Navigation-Cooperative Intelligent Pedal uses GPS mapping data to detect an oncoming bend, then strategically decelerates or applies the brakes. Here's how it works: When the nav system indicates a curve is looming, the accelerator pedal physically moves upward. Then the system activates the brakes. The point is to reduce a driver's workload on winding roads, such as Japan's notoriously curvy mountain highways.

The Navigation-Cooperative Intelligent Pedal works along with Nissan's new Active Stability Assist system, which synchronizes braking, steering and engine responses. The system monitors a driver's steering and acceleration/braking patterns, and steps in with either braking or the application of engine torque to each of the four wheels to help smooth vehicle responses. During braking, the system judges the distribution of force to each of the four wheels depending on the radius of a curve. The point, Nissan says is to help a driver feel more in control.

Nissan says both systems will be introduced on the new Fuga, a car US buyers know as the Infiniti M, in Japan in fall 2009. No word on a US release. Sounds like it may come in handy more in Japan than in the US, unless your morning commute is climbing Pike's Peak. Wake me up when it can cross-reference the caffeine level in your bloodstream, and apply the brakes in front of the nearest Starbucks.

http://www.popsci.com/files/imagecache/article_image_large/files/articles/nissan_tech_turn.jpg

[nth_degree]

I wouldn't say it's pointless.

how is an electric car not pointless? :confused:

Heres how it is pointless

1. Energy for electric cars comes from fossil fuel power station.
2. 200 mile range is a pipe dream, especially if you have headlights, and heating ,and music or radio, and sat nav on
3. Speaking of heating how do u keep an electric car warm at 100 mph or even at 60 mph in say minus 10 degrees electric engines do not produce any heat and electric heating devices use alot of energy
4.electric cars on the whole will weigh more by far than equivelent conventional car due to all the batterys and cos of this they will wear out the tyres quicker by far which is a major GENUINE ecological issue unlike carbon dioxide they will also wear out the roads quicker
5. electric cars at low speed are all but silent .... not tht safe around pedestrians
6. the life span of the massive batterys is also a doubt as is the cost of replacement
7. electric cars would be exceptionally boring to drive so im not gonna be having one id rather walk

on a further note, Hybrid cars are even more pointless and only exsist so large corperations can get big fat tax breaks only to have the drivers bomb up and down the motorways at 95 mph dragging with them the obsolete electric engine and battery getting less than 35 mpg.
My old golf gti will do 40 mpg at those sorts of speed

so in a nut shell .......POINTLESS :D:eek::(:mad::p;):)

[neomagic]

I’m going to respond to each numbered point with my view, I am not turning it into an argument but more of a discussion on the subject.

1, Currently yes, but it doesn’t mean it always will be or has to once advancements in refinement have taken place. Also, I’m no mathematician but I’d happily wage a bet that the energy consumed in the whole process would be significantly less maybe up to a third. E.g. Car uses X amount of energy to travel say 200 miles, the energy used took X amount of energy to refine and harness and the over all consumption would be less than that of petroleum refinement and consumption of the petroleum by a said vehicle. No facts for you I’m afraid just a bit of speculation.

2, 200 mile range is very optimistic with the level of technology that we are currently using, that is not to say that the technology doesn’t already exist to power the car for a hell of a lot longer than that which I’m sure it does it’s just not commercial yet.

3, Anything that moves creates friction, friction in turn creates heat. Somewhere in the scheme of things this could be utilised, e.g. a vented air system over the batteries (warm) and electric motor (Hot within minutes of load) with a fan so it A, keeps the temperatures down on the hardware and B keeps the driver warm. However as you quite rightly put heat isn’t going to be one of an electric motors biggest side effects so it’s probably debateable how much heat it would create. Failing the above a simple bar type heater in the front of the car (formally the bonnet) with appropriate ducting and venting again coupled with a fan would suffice, all be it at a significant impact on range no doubt.

4, They do weigh more than current vehicles, but this is purely down to battery technology which I think as mentioned above could and would be resolved in the future.

5, Agreed but how many milk float related accidents have you heard of involving pedestrians, even so some kind of audible warning sound when the car detects heavily built up pedestrianised areas could be built in should it prove a problem.

6, As above really, but also the potential of battery swap outs at a certain millage or even at every refill or warrantee can all be considered and once something is mass produced in vast numbers over all costs always come down.

7, I am a petrol head, I love nothing more than a thundering 5.0 V8 or a big single turbo straight six etc, but there is a lot to be said for massive amounts of instant torque.

Hybrids are a waste of time, agreed but it’s all part of R&D if you don’t look for alternative ways of doing things you will never find the answers you where looking for in the first place and that’s just a stepping stone in a possible right direction.

By no means however am I on the green band camp, I do however think that respecting the environment and efficiency is important.

[hadabusa]

they all gonna suicide. 2shots in the heads from impossible angles.

[pduffy4]

How about the Electric Tesla car? 0-60 in 3.9 secs and 244 miles per charge.
http://www.teslamotors.com/

[neomagic]

How about the Electric Tesla car? 0-60 in 3.9 secs and 244 miles per charge.
http://www.teslamotors.com/

It's good very good in fact, but the figures are missleading in all honesty. It is a step in the right direction though I feel.

[nth_degree]

neomagic 75% of all energy used by a car in its life is used in its production yet we are gonna scrap all these modern economical cars when they are 8 or 9 yrs old even though they still function fine ? madness i say

A 200 mile range is optomistic to the nth degree :)

so the tech for batterys will be not dissimilar to mobile phone or laptop batterys which give off little or no heat except when recharged

an audible warning?........oh sheesh!.......... it sounds like demolition man :( or some other brave new world scenario

refilling a conventional car battery is easy but try refilling these complex modern chemical dry cell batterys and then what about the waste?

did u see the explosion of hho experiments tht were all over u tube and the like, recently and there was the guy in america who had a conventional car running on water in 1995 and a guy in thailand doing the same, and then there is Geet gas

what gets my goat is why develop a flawed technology?.........

Oh i know why!.......... :D to keep us going to the big corps for our fuel

and thanks to the scrapage scheme the gov knee jerked into action you can find dozens of perfect modern cars outside your local scrap yard waiting to be crushed and then stuck in a big pile in a field while they wait for the price of mixed metal to go up

its madness i say madness :D

p.s how much is a tesla again?

[neomagic]

All true, there are much better methods of propulsion which are in fact at a cost to no one or anything.

I agree with what you are saying, I guess its how its implemented that determines it pointless or not.

e.g. if you could power an electric motor from a free energy source then it wouldn’t be pointless if you get what I mean.

[pduffy4]

Much lighter cars could be made from Hemp plastic, saving much energy. Hemp plastic can be 10 times stronger than steel and 6 times lighter.

[nth_degree]

i get what you are saying neo and pduffy makes the most valid point cars need to be lighter and made from cellulose composite which is biodegradeable!

i still have my doubts as to the handling of those teslas it might look like a sports car and go of the lights like a rocket but me thinks a few b roads would make it into an electric ditch finder but then it is americain... :D

[neomagic]

It's a lotus underneath mate, they handle pretty well but not as good as the Elise it’s based on obviously due to weight.

[the nine]

All true, there are much better methods of propulsion which are in fact at a cost to no one or anything.

I agree with what you are saying, I guess its how its implemented that determines it pointless or not.

e.g. if you could power an electric motor from a free energy source then it wouldn’t be pointless if you get what I mean.

then you need to research tessla, and the jp morgan swindle..
the truth IS out there fellow :)

here are some places to start before you go spreading disharmony jeremy clarckson style on here..

http://www.pbs.org/tesla/ll/ll_todre.html

http://www.reformation.org/nikola-tesla.html

peace and love :)

[neomagic]

Thank you, I have I just didn't quote anything. :)

[the nine]

Thank you, I have I just didn't quote anything. :)

then we both agree that free energy does exist (although it has been repressed) and that electric cars are the future, clean, quiet and efficient (especially using tessla wireless energy) :)

[tjohn]

MIT's Project elEVen: an Electric Car That Recharges in Under 11 Minutes (http://www.popsci.com/cars/article/2009-07/car-you-can-recharge-under-10-minutes)



cont: MIT's Project elEVen: an Electric Car That Recharges in Under 11 Minutes (http://www.popsci.com/cars/article/2009-07/car-you-can-recharge-under-10-minutes)

http://www.popsci.com/files/imagecache/article_image_large/files/articles/mit10min1.jpgAmazing!

I just hope the battery doesn't explode! :D

[neomagic]

then we both agree that free energy does exist (although it has been repressed) and that electric cars are the future, clean, quiet and efficient (especially using tessla wireless energy) :)

Yep, amongst other forms of free energy e.g. orgone and crystals etc which aren't much explored. :)

[sixfour]

Go find and watch the documentary titled "Who killed the electric car?".
Very interesting and gives a great insight into how numerous factors, including big oil, public perception and confidence helped to kill the dream.

[pi3141]

Sorry for getting into this a bit late but I saw this thread yesterday and had to register before I could post. Long time reader, first time poster.

I would also like to argue, 1 by 1, the comments made about electric cars being pointless.

1) Energy for electric cars comes from fossil fuel stations - true but irrelevant. The government is well aware that wave power is more viable than nuclear after the 1970's report looking into Wave, Nuclear and Wind. Professor Saltzer's ducks were a better option than Nuclear but the government made a mistake in the figure work and incorrectly put Nuclear first. The mistake was admitted to 15 years later but no investment has been made into wave power generators until very recently. If it had been then the argument that electric cars simply 'move' the pollution to another place would be invalid. I believe anyhow it is invalid because it makes far more sense to have the pollution in one area that can then be managed effectiviely as opposed to millions of tailpipes spitting pollutants out into the streets and countryside wherever they go where it can't be managed easily. It is not right to simply state that because we use crap methods for generating electricity that electric cars are crap. Change the production, invest in efficient power stations and manage the extra pollutant caused by it - they would have the money from the extra revenue they would make supplying our daily fuel for commutes etc. What about solar panels on the garage roof - I've seen a college lecturer in the USA who has a pile of batteries in the garage, the panels charge them up during the day, then he plugs in the car over night and they discharge into the vehicles power pack. No cost or pollution implications at all.

2) Pipe dream? Laughable, you listen to Clarkson too much. 200 mile range is feasible, however I can't remember the last job I did with a 200 mile commute - how many people do you know who do a daily 200 mile commute by car? I don't know any. An electric car with a range of 80 miles would be sufficient for most as a commuter/daily driver so who cares about 200 mile ranges. Thats not to say it can't be done, because it can. But if it is neccessary whats wrong with putting a Honda suitcase generator in the boot to extend the range when needed? Renault Kangoo Electric has a 50cc motor bolted to the rear axle to get you home if you run out of charge. Modern V6's and V8's made by GM etc now use a fuel saving scheme where fuel is cut on half the cylinders and the car speed is maintained at highway speed using the other half of the cylinders. This cuts fuel consumption by roughly 50%. Electric ars could cut power to the motor for 1 second, then reapply for 1 second, then cut power again, over the average the power consumption would be halved and hence range doubled - I have not seen a single electric car use this strategy despite it being proven to work by less efficient petrol engines.

3) Electric motors do produce heat hence they have 'impellers' mounted to the shaft to provide cooling. What about small petrol, ethanol, methanol or other gas heaters in the car. Just because thay are electric doesn't mean everything has to be electric - you don't use a petrol powered radio in your car do you? No, because its more efficient to have an alternator and battery suppling electric power to what is an electrical device. Likewise it is more efficient to have petrol supplying a heater to heat your electric car.

4) Weight. Electric cars on the whole are poorly designed - sorry but its true. Most conversions are poorly designed. While in college 10 years ago I designed an electric car and the first thing I did was look for cars with low kerb weight to start with. Fibreglass bodied, space frame chassis would be the place to start like a TVR or a Lotus or GM Fiero (I've bought a Lotus to convert - some day) Then you engineer the drive train and batteries not to exceed the original weight of the car. No upgrade in suspension, brakes etc needed. If you design the car for purpose, i.e. a city car with an 80 mile range then this issue is non existant.

5) Do I really need to refute this one? Ok, a large vehicle will make a noise running along but if in practice this is not sufficient then engineer a noise into them - perhaps a funnel under the front feeding into a whistle. The faster you go the louder it gets. I can't belive reduction in noise pollution is considered detrimental. But again, its insignificant and as its easily solved.

6) Life span of batteries - when petrol cars were first introduced they could not be driven for more than 10 miles without overheating. The invention of the pressurised cooling system finally overcame this. In other words, when people are using the technology it improves. Not much research and develpopment has been done on batteries because it wasn't neccessary. I have read white papers that dismiss early conceptions about lead acid batteries susch as fast charging. It is, apparently possible to fast charge a lead acid battery without breaking it. It was shown in a white paper where batteries were fast charged over 500 times an no perceivable detriment to the battery. I forget the company that studied it. Battery packs are expensive but considering the simplicity of electric cars batteries are really the only major expenditure in service and maintainence. The money you save not having to rebuild cylinder heads, oil and water pumps, exhausts, ignition systems and routine servicing etc can be used to finance new batteries when required.

7) Boring to drive. Clarkson again - the fastest road going car on the drag tracks in the states is currently a 1972 Datsun converted to electric. Its breaking world records on a daily basis - boring? Really? Oh ok, I guess you don't like speed, but to the rest of us having 100% torque at zero RPM and beating some of the fastest petrol cars on the roads would be a lot of fun. With attention paid to the design you could build the batteries into the chassis and have a perfectly balanced car - that would offer great driving sensation on the track and roads. I would find that great fun to drive.

As for the Hybrid comment - your bang on. As far as I can see, they've taken an overly complicated, innefficient petrol engine and doubled the complication and cost by bolting it to an electric motor and increased the weight of the car with the batteries. Whats the point?? I don't understand but for some reason Joe Public is sold on it. Just another distraction to avoid going down the all electric route. At least with the Renault Kangoo Electric you get a 50cc engine that drives the rear axle so you are 100% electric until you run out of power then you go slower on petrol to get home.

I like to think of the development over the years of petrol engine - 1 cylinder 2 stroke, 4 Stroke, 4 Cylinder, 6 Cylinder, V6, V8, X Series engines, W series engines, Rotary engines. Each development has increased efficiency and performance. Electric motors are the next step on from Rotary, just throw away the fuel system and combustion chambers and replace with a load of coils and electricity you then get 90% efficency (at specific RPM's) only 1 moving part (stator) nothing to break. Electric motors weigh so little a person could swap his own motor in the car on his own in 1 day without special tools. Broke your motor? - buy another one and swap it yourelf - who needs a mechanic or garage service for that?

[nth_degree]

hi pi
A completely electric car is totally impractical outside an extremely narrow set of circumstances, as you so rightly point out.

Maybe in blighty, we dont do a 200 mile round trip into the middle of knowhere and back much but in america and canada and australia many people do regularly :p
In my old job, i could rack up 300 miles in one shift, in a car, in the uk! :)

getting back to blighty i can just imagine you out for as joy ride in your super fast mega wicked sports car, (electric), on a twisty c road ,you take a series of blind corners enthusiasticlly ,,,,,,,and slam into a kangoo doing 15 mph, 5 up, on its moped engine, cos mr blogs forgot to charge it :D
said kangoo cant go on the motorway cos its to slow so it the long way home

now lets think of the electricity infrastructure its old and running at peak output now .......ok ok i know tesla said u can pull electricity out of thin air and beam it where you like but they wont let us have tht technology any sooner than water fuel technology, and teslas technology would be more use for giant ships at sea or hydroponic food factorys in the sahara due to the fact tht a massive vadagraph generator type thing on the roof, doesnt effect a factorys aero dynamics :o

As far as your coment on the fastest drag car in usa being electric......7.824 seconds (quickest electric) is quick yes but not as quick as alcohol/nitrous dragsters and jet cars, even big turbo road cars can do sevens

Putting batterys in the chasis make them a bit hard to get at (to change)

Clarkson is not a source of my info, im a bill hicks kind of guy, i hold stuff up to my own logic/bulls*&% filter and whats left is with hope, optimal truth ! :cool:

lastly electric engines are boring because of there simplicity i love the intricacy of an internal combustion engine and if you dont like the sound of a performance engine poping and banging on backoff your either(joke) a young child or dead or worse (joke)<----do not take seriously.
who ever invented this virtual reality game called life on earth drives a hot rod not a milk float :D

[pi3141]

Lol, good points. But I can't agree usage of electric cars are so narrow to be pointless. They won't tick all the boxes for all transport needs in society but we have been stuck with only petrol combustion engines for too long. I would think small electric vehicles could be used by most people, most of the time and could be supplied with a small generator on a trailer for driving holidays with loads of luggage if people didn't want a second car for longer journeys. Small electric cars could be produced very cheaply and then most families could have a second car - say diesel with LPG system fumigating through the air intake giving (up to) a 40% increase in power and virtually no pollution. Keeping such cars available would suit people in other countries where as you say electric cars would be insufficient for certain situations. Trucks, lorries and Buses, Ambulances and Fire engines could run on the same. Instead of Diesel use vegetable oil. Such a strategy would massively reduce pollution and drain on foreign oil and seems to me to make sense. Having a society with a road transport system based entirely on petroleum is just narrow minded. Obviously it keeps those at the top of the petrol industry very rich but as Yoda says - 'Only Sith's deal in absolutes'

The fastest drag car I referenced is a 1972 converted Datsun called White Zombie and it does 0 - 60 in 3 Seconds!! Quarter of a mile in 11.5 seconds. Google Electric Datsun 1972

The reference to Clarkson was simply because I hear the same old arguments about electric cars and he's repeated virtually all of them. I remember him showing a picture of an electric car some one sent in and Clarkson said it looked like a fridge. Which was a fair comment because it did. So i looked it up on the net and found out the owner was using it for a land speed record attempt - cars built for breaking record attempts don't need to look good. But Clarkson didn't mention anything about that - just made the suggestion all electric cars look like fridges.

Glad to hear your a Bill Hicks kind of guy - same here - intelligent comedy.

Yeah the Tesla energy beamed through the atmosphere thing is a bummer - but I've always thought ships and boats should be run on Hydrogen engines - as they float on water they are actually floating on a fuel source, scoop up the water, split into Hydrogen and burn it off. Seems logical to me. I think thats my point in a nutshell, boats float on water - use hydrogen or steam, short commute use electric car, long distance truck driving use a diesel engine run it on veggie oil and combine it with LPG to increase power and reduce pollution - Horses for courses!

I've read quite extensively on Tesla and regarding the idea of wireless transmission of power I think when Tesla built his tower at wherever it was he was not trying to produce all the power to transmit. There is a cavity in our atmosphere, filled with power, its where the lightning originates from, I forget the name, its very narrow but according to the documentary I watched (Nick Cook I beleive) if you inject a signal into it it will propogate around the globe with virtually no loss. I think Tesla intended to 'whack' that part of the atmosphere with energy at a known frequency to try and modulate that energy into a known frequency (7Hz from memory) which we could all then tune to. Amazing man he was.

Ok I get it, compicated erngine arrangements with a 1000 parts moving synchronously in different directions is interesting and not boring I understand that - I just see it as 'quaint' - little boxes of controlled explosions - seems primitive to me. They are interesting and I don't believe they are dead or done for. They just need updating with some of the surpressed ideas that have come forward over the years - Geet being one of them. Diesel/LPG combination, hydrogen and carburettors that convert liquid petrol to gas on demand. I'd like a Geet powered car - only because when it breaks down I can scream - ' the plasma reactors cannay take anymore' but I'm a hopless case because I believe in efficency and electric cars are the pinnacle of efficiency.

[nth_degree]

so let me get this straight .......your saying, we need to dump all the cars we have now,,... create loads of new devices and stations to create electricity to power new electric cars and thts efficient?.........
And we would still need to have conventional engines for trucks and vans etc running on not somthing like geet gas,..... but on diesel ?
Wowzers your more confused than shrodingers cat :D
Or you have a vested interest in this electric car thing! (oops i assumed) :D

I am afraid your whole arguement went up in flames, and flipped into a ditch after hitting the kangroo.
i expect your vision of the future will be most likely though, seeing as though logic rarely gets a look in!

[pi3141]

Ummm.... No. Obviously you have misunderstood. I'm not going to explain myself any further other than to say I think we need to be using the right fuel in different machines depending on environment and availability and suitability. I think veggie oil cars are better alternative than diesel but if a country has lots of desert, not much vegetation and lots of oil then they are better off sticking with diesel but I would like to see the diesel engine improved with addition of LPG, hydrogen or even Geet systems. I think consumers should stick solar panels on their garage roofs to power their cars and existing petrol stations to offer electrical outlets to customers with electric cars. I would also like to see development into other viable alternative solutions such as Ford's hemp car.

Now let me apply your 'logic' to your argument - see if I can get this straight, you think we should stick with inefficent petrol and diesel engines powered from a dwindling supply with known high pollution because that would be less wasteful than improving, updating or changing our infrastructure? In other words, we've made our choice and now we should stick with it regardless of how poor it is. Or perhaps because to stay as we are is less boring because its more complicated and less efficient than alternatives?? Quote - 'lastly electric engines are boring because of there simplicity i love the intricacy of an internal combustion engine ' So simple is efficient and hence boring and wasteful, complicated and intricate and inefficient is best? Is that correct?

[nth_degree]

um no (on all your assumtions)...... obviously YOU have misunderstood!
Im not going to explain myself further ........im not :D .......honest :rolleyes: .....seeeEEeee! ........,no further explanations!................except to say, LPG Hydrogen and Geet are fuels tht internal combustion engines can burn! .....and
HHO (Browns gas) and geet gas aint gettin no development dispite this! :rolleyes:

[gorana]

Not pointless at all...

1. We just need to work on zero point energy modules. If this is fiction or it can be produced for real, is not mine to be decided. But whenever someone tries to work on something like that, his mouth is shut. Other alternative is sun light, wind or sea current harvesting. :)
2. Look at #1
3. Do not compare your expirience with electro motors you used in your tootbrush (or any other small item). IF you just do some googling you will see that RC Car Model Brushless Motors develop temperatures up to 80°C (170°F) which is more than enough to be harvested for car heating. If you just look at size of this RC motors and then size of real car electromotor, i think that one will still produce enough for proper heating.
4. True, but thats just excuse. If we would follow that logic, horse carts are lighter than typical cars, but still cars managed to win because of its convinience
5. Japanese have a workaround for that. They use loudspeakers to warn pedestrians. And... why do we really need that much of noise? Are our cities not noisy enough?
6. If there is a Billion market for such technology, you will see more of R&D into it. I would not wonder that all these battery companies keep us so underdeveloped, so that we can return more often for new batteries.
7. Driving electric car is not much different comparing to fuel based cars. It is just that you do not have to concentrate on gear shifting. Aaaand, you do not hear your car as much.

So, not as pointless as expected :D
how is an electric car not pointless? :confused:

Heres how it is pointless

1. Energy for electric cars comes from fossil fuel power station.
2. 200 mile range is a pipe dream, especially if you have headlights, and heating ,and music or radio, and sat nav on
3. Speaking of heating how do u keep an electric car warm at 100 mph or even at 60 mph in say minus 10 degrees electric engines do not produce any heat and electric heating devices use alot of energy
4.electric cars on the whole will weigh more by far than equivelent conventional car due to all the batterys and cos of this they will wear out the tyres quicker by far which is a major GENUINE ecological issue unlike carbon dioxide they will also wear out the roads quicker
5. electric cars at low speed are all but silent .... not tht safe around pedestrians
6. the life span of the massive batterys is also a doubt as is the cost of replacement
7. electric cars would be exceptionally boring to drive so im not gonna be having one id rather walk

on a further note, Hybrid cars are even more pointless and only exsist so large corperations can get big fat tax breaks only to have the drivers bomb up and down the motorways at 95 mph dragging with them the obsolete electric engine and battery getting less than 35 mpg.
My old golf gti will do 40 mpg at those sorts of speed

so in a nut shell .......POINTLESS :D:eek::(:mad::p;):)

[moonflower]

Thing is the petrol engines of today are very clean and very economical (unless you put them in a 4 ton SUV! America i'm looking at you) and if you consider this:

Petrol engines are about 30 -35% efficient, which may not sound much but when you consider that losses in distributing electricity, by the time it get to your plug it is about 10% or less efficient then think how much more energy you are going to have to convert to electricity to charge electric cars?

The most efficent use of energy is when the energy is converted at the appliance such as the fuel in a car or coal in a fire, distrubution saps most of the efficiency out of mass-generated electricity.

The only answer would be to have the electricity generated at your house and I think that will be very very difficult, you will need a lot of wind generators!

M

[soothseeker]

Surely the range of an electric car can be solved quite easily with the same infrastructure already available. By simply designing the batteries to slide out you can pull into a gas station pay a price and almost instantly exchange the run down battery for a fully juiced one.

OK it would require all the manufactures to come together and design all models to use a certain battery, but wouldn't that be more efficient anyway.

I can understand that a lot of people love their combustion cars, the complexity, the noise they make etc. but can you see Earth in a century or so still driving about in the same cars as today. The only certain thing in the Universe is everything is in a constant state of flux. Things move on, they evolve.

With that in mind we can safely assume that the electric will not be the main form of transport for ever. Personally I love the idea of mag-lev trains running in vacuum tubes. I can imagine a future where the majority of journeys are made using this type of transportation. When you arrive at one of the main hubs you would simply disembark and get into a smaller vehicle which is owned by the community and it drives you to your final destination (whether this still runs on electric, who knows).

And lets face it, in the future people are going to be amazed that we used to drive ourselves about, saying “why on earth would you want to drive yourself when you can have a computer do it for you”. Same principle as the calculator really.

[the nine]

3) Electric motors do produce heat hence they have 'impellers' mounted to the shaft to provide cooling. What about small petrol, ethanol, methanol or other gas heaters in the car. Just because thay are electric doesn't mean everything has to be electric - you don't use a petrol powered radio in your car do you? No, because its more efficient to have an alternator and battery suppling electric power to what is an electrical device. Likewise it is more efficient to have petrol supplying a heater to heat your electric car.


hi pi, welcome to the forum :)
excellent post.

i have had people say these cars would be useless in the winter because of the power needed to produce heat to keep the inside warm and demist the windscreen..
i say bollocks!!

there is an abundance of technology out there, if it were incorperated we could all anjoyed the benefits of the human consciousness as opposed to the shackles of human greed!

how about this.. an 'over-unity' pump to produce heat AND electric..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yh_-DUKQ4Uw

the cylinder could be set to produce high pressure steam in a sealed sytem, the steam could generate electric and the by product is heat...!!!!

how environmentally friedly would that be, and the range would be as long as the moving parts would last..fuck the oil barons grip on the world..time to let go and give the people a fair chance :)

[wildhorse]

electric car?????

:mad:

WHY haven't they brought out the car that flies from under their wraps??? - and I am not talking about that monstrosity that was in the press recently.

(well we know why, but hey, get the sheep to pay £££ for outdated tech to keep them lot in Rolexs for life huh)


I guess the truth will come out all in good time, just hope its 'in time' before we are all in camps.

electric cars are just a piss take...as mentioned orgone can provide free energy and propulsion, hence why Wilhelm Reich was butchered God rest his soul...

[astrochicken]

This was built almost 100 years ago.

1909 Baker Electric- from Jay Leno's Garage

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9vC3S8MJPY

[pi3141]

Hi the nine,

I remember seeing that over unity pump on 'It Runs On Water' documentary - thats what started it all off for me. A college lecturer had pointed me in the direction of Tesla and around the same time I saw the documentary. Soon after I was reading Stan Deyo Cosmic Conspiracy and devouring the Keeley net archive.

Thats a great idea to combine the two - no losses in the first conversion but I'm not sure how much electricity would the steam generate? If it worked it would be useful to have plentiful heat as the batteries (and electric motor) operate better within certain temperatures and of course the demisting and heating.. Could just go 100% steam powered cars driven by the O/U Pump producing the steam driven by a small electric motor and batteries - does a way with the boiler and warm up times!

They had some great stuff in the early 1900 as well as electric cars they also run steam cars like the Stanley Steamer and gyroscopic cars that run on 2 wheels such as the Schilovski gyrocar. Development of these technologies didn't make it past the second world war.

[the nine]

Hi the nine,


Thats a great idea to combine the two - no losses in the first conversion but I'm not sure how much electricity would the steam generate? .

hi pi,
sorry for all the youtube vids, but i find it easier to post these moving images rather than trying to explain and then source..
but,
with regards to question of how much electricity could be generated by steam, most electric is a dervative of steam power, but the fossil fuels or nuclear fuels heat the water which drive the turbines..i think..

but on a very small scale..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRtIIrimQgY&NR=1

if you look at the comments underneath, they are questioning the heating source, but the overunity could be the answer :)

[pi3141]

Hi nine,

your right that fossil and nuclear fuels heat the steam - I was amazed to find out a nuclear sub uses the nuclear process to generate heat to create steam to generate power to recharge the batteries for its electric motor! Nuclear power stations do the same thing, so I guess they are no more efficient than fossil fuel power stations. Just the heating process is 'better'.

Wiki says on its steam turbine page (just googled) that steam electric generators operate between 20 and 90% efficiency. So, if the O/U steam generator, operating at 100% was driven off a small electric motor at constant RPM operating at 90% efficiency and the steam generator worked at 20% efficency then the power loss in the electric generator would be too great to be worthwhile. But if the small steam generator to generate electricity was working at 90% then the 20% losses in the system compared to the available heat could well be worth it. If the O/U steam generator was in fact working at 110% (stated as such in the documentary) then the total losses would only be 10% with as much heat as required.

[the nine]

Hi nine,

your right that fossil and nuclear fuels heat the steam - I was amazed to find out a nuclear sub uses the nuclear process to generate heat to create steam to generate power to recharge the batteries for its electric motor! Nuclear power stations do the same thing, so I guess they are no more efficient than fossil fuel power stations. Just the heating process is 'better'.

Wiki says on its steam turbine page (just googled) that steam electric generators operate between 20 and 90% efficiency. So, if the O/U steam generator, operating at 100% was driven off a small electric motor at constant RPM operating at 90% efficiency and the steam generator worked at 20% efficency then the power loss in the electric generator would be too great to be worthwhile. But if the small steam generator to generate electricity was working at 90% then the 20% losses in the system compared to the available heat could well be worth it. If the O/U steam generator was in fact working at 110% (stated as such in the documentary) then the total losses would only be 10% with as much heat as required.

the initial figures add up..its a defo possibility
we better stop talking about this now....or we may be getting a lazer pointer through the window lol :D

but if some poeple on a DI forum can discuss genuine possibilites for oil alternatives in just a few posts, then what can genius engineering designers come up with using state of the art possbility with full knowledge of hidden power sources..
the western world is mentally oppressed and uses the scam of bad management as a distraction! (IMHO)

i happen to think that magnatism is the future of travel combined with electric and powerful microchips and superconductors.

[pi3141]

but if some poeple on a DI forum can discuss genuine possibilites for oil alternatives in just a few posts, then what can genius engineering designers come up with using state of the art possbility with full knowledge of hidden power sources..

Absolutely, and well placed industry types have the means to easily prototype these things. Wish I had a machine shop.

You really got me thinking about this now. If your familiar with Bedini's work then one of these steam generators, driven by elecrtic motor from batteries. The other side of the shaft (running through the machine) connected to a generator/alternator wired back to the batteries. Using Bedini's off/on duty cycle and the steam generator internal wheel as the flywheel you could get the batteries to recharge themselves and you would only need to feed water as fuel to get the steam without ever having to recharge the batteries! Never thought of that one before. Thanks for that.:)

[the nine]

Absolutely, and well placed industry types have the means to easily prototype these things. Wish I had a machine shop.

You really got me thinking about this now. If your familiar with Bedini's work then one of these steam generators, driven by elecrtic motor from batteries. The other side of the shaft (running through the machine) connected to a generator/alternator wired back to the batteries. Using Bedini's off/on duty cycle and the steam generator internal wheel as the flywheel you could get the batteries to recharge themselves and you would only need to feed water as fuel to get the steam without ever having to recharge the batteries! Never thought of that one before. Thanks for that.:)

agreed,
although if you use a sealed reservoir system so the steam, after it has driven the turbine, runs down through your heater and down again into your reservoir..there would be surely be no need to refil..hapy days!
I really hope you make one pi, I would love to see the oiligarks get their come uppance!!

:)

never heard of bedini..but I will check his work out now.. thanks 4 the info

[lobito]

Electric cars with todays tecnology are impractical, it´s samething like h2 engines. beautifull concept, but impractical.

For several reasons

- To make this dream possible we have to multiplie 1.5 to 2.0 the actual electrical productive system. (We have a serius energy crises.)

- Better batteries. (There developmente has rapidly grow in the last years.)

- More eficient engines (It´s almost impossible, they have been developed to the tecnology limits.)

So this is a good dream, but insane.

Lobito

[the nine]

Electric cars with todays tecnology are impractical, it´s samething like h2 engines. beautifull concept, but impractical.

For several reasons

- To make this dream possible we have to multiplie 1.5 to 2.0 the actual electrical productive system. (We have a serius energy crises.)

- Better batteries. (There developmente has rapidly grow in the last years.)

- More eficient engines (It´s almost impossible, they have been developed to the tecnology limits.)

So this is a good dream, but insane.

Lobito

you mean with todays acknowledged/revealed technology?

if you read the posts then you will see there is a miriad of alternatives with feasible probabilties..

have a read of Bedini's free elecrical energy.. what pi posted about..these could be incorperated into a vehicle and the design would then take on a life of its own, improving with more and more people and groups looking at the possibilites.

the energy crisis you speak about is the only thing insane..there is no energy crisis except the manufactured on so many people have bought into!

if you stop using gas to heat homes around the world, and use it only to heat power stations..we could all use over-unity pumps to heat our water and radiators at home.. incorperate a sealed steam powered generator on each home too, this would put electric back into the grid..

the technology is there, but the fat cats would loose their grip on society..thats why its never talked about !

check out tessla and free wireless energy for the world for ever, and JP Morgan pulling his financing. virtually bankrupting him, to suppress the technolgy..then tell me there is an energy crisis!!!!

:)

[anyuser]

Go find and watch the documentary titled "Who killed the electric car?".
Very interesting and gives a great insight into how numerous factors, including big oil, public perception and confidence helped to kill the dream.

Indeed. Everyone should watch it. Lots of important info in video. Thats also why I don't feel bad for the big companies when they lost money for those big rides while not upgrading to things such as ev1 (without recalling & crushing the cars).

Bt link:
http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/3554109/Who.Killed.The.Electric.Car.LiMiTED.DVDRip.XviD-LMG

you will need a bit torrent client such as Bittyrant (http://bittyrant.en.softonic.com/)

[lobito]

To put the energies you speek into pratice it will take years we don´t have.

I´m conected with electicity so I know well enough what I´m saying, we will take several years to change from oil to other forms of energy and the oil production is about to break, until 2020 in the best cenario.

So get ready for energy crises, it will be big.

Lobito

[lobito]

I´m going to check Bedini's free elecrical energy, and make a few experiences, to understand what is it.

But I still have same quetions about this tecnology.

Lobito

[anyuser]

Nissan turns over new Leaf (http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/08/03/nissan_leaf/)

http://regmedia.co.uk/2009/08/03/leaf_01.jpg

The curiously named Leaf is goes on sale in Japan and across North America next year. Nissan UK has confirmed to Register Hardware that the car will breeze into Blighty during 2011.

Technically, the Leaf is very similar to Nissan’s recently unveiled EV-11 systems development prototype. So we’re talking about a five-door, front-wheel drive hatchback powered by a single 80kW (107bhp) electric motor and connected to a 24kWh laminated lithium-ion battery pack.

With exterior dimensions of 4.4m x 1.7m x 1.5m, the Leaf is considerably longer and wider than Mitsubishi's iMiEV - which is likely to be the only e-car competition the Leaf will face when it goes on sale in the UK.

Leaf can reach a maximum speed of over 90mph and will keep going for roughly 100 miles from a full charge, Nissan says, With 280Nm (208lb/ft) of torque on tap, acceleration should be pretty brisk.

http://regmedia.co.uk/2009/08/03/leaf_07.jpg

cont: Nissan turns over new Leaf (http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/08/03/nissan_leaf/)

[jack5]

MIT's Project elEVen: an Electric Car That Recharges in Under 11 Minutes (http://www.popsci.com/cars/article/2009-07/car-you-can-recharge-under-10-minutes)



cont: MIT's Project elEVen: an Electric Car That Recharges in Under 11 Minutes (http://www.popsci.com/cars/article/2009-07/car-you-can-recharge-under-10-minutes)

http://www.popsci.com/files/imagecache/article_image_large/files/articles/mit10min1.jpg

But you still require mains electrical supply.Hardly revolutionary.