Congressman confronted by angry citizens [Archive]

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wakeuptime

28-07-2009, 07:44 PM

I didn't see this posted but forgive me if it already was. This happened a few days ago in the U.S. when a group of citizens at a town meeting confronted Congressman Mike Castle about Obama's lack of a birth certificate. People are angry about his policies and its all starting to turn against him. He could potentially be kicked out for fraud.

here's the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwgzYkTDsmQ

If it doesn't work, go to Youtube and type in Congressman Mike Castle's Town Hall erupts over Obama's birth certificate.

distantrelative

28-07-2009, 07:45 PM

steevo

28-07-2009, 08:02 PM

Great video, thanks for posting wakeuptime :)

The thing is, I bet the PTB can quite easily print him out a fake birth certificate. But it isnt really as easy as THAT cos they would have to conspire with others, and they could get caught out if people do the research into Obama's life (if Obama IS his real name).

steevo

28-07-2009, 08:06 PM

I like it when women speak out like that because, somehow, you can't just ignore them. We need more women like that.

wakeuptime

28-07-2009, 08:13 PM

flip side

28-07-2009, 08:14 PM

I see Jon Stewart covered this the other day on The Daily Show. Used typical mainstream media methods of dis-crediting the people filing against Obama. Then sighted one line from a newspaper in Hawaii which he said confirmed Obama's Birth. Two questions came to my mind. Firstly, how reliable is this source of information from the Hawaii newspaper, does anyone here know where you can view this please? And secondly, even if we do have this evidence which could easily be forged...they still didn't show proof of his Birth Certificate?! Isn't that what it's all about, the legal document that proves his position? So, Jon Stewart may have in his words 'debunked' the issue where in reality he has debunked nothing and legitimised the outcry for proof. Yes I know it's satire, just thought it was interesting what methods are being used to debunk this.

supertzar

28-07-2009, 08:40 PM

godspeed

28-07-2009, 08:41 PM

i want my country back too while we're at it.........go the bravehearted woman....:D

monkeyboy

28-07-2009, 08:46 PM

compare these two hawain birth certificates? Hmmmm

http://www.gopmom.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/hawaii-birth-certificate-1963.jpg

http://nativeborncitizen.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/obama-birth-certificate1.jpg

wouldn`t they have just copied the origional?
also seems to backup what supertzar stated.

flip side

28-07-2009, 08:54 PM

Obama has a "Certificate of Live Birth." It is not the same as a Birth Certificate. In Hawaii you can get the former without being born there apparently.

Yeah so really the 'certificate of live birth' proves nothing. Amazing that a man in such 'high authority' cant produce a Birth Cert. My bro used to knock em out for a fiver back in secondry school (for novelty purposes only of course!) Paper in the oven and a typewriter is all you needed lol. Surely it wouldn't be too hard for people that move in these circles to get this doctored to an exact match? Make's you wonder if this was set up for a fall. It's getting interesting in the US for sure.

mntruthseeker

28-07-2009, 09:33 PM

I have been following this story for quite awhile now....since Berg got involved but even further with the Larry Sinclair story who just published his own book on Obama

No doubt in my mind he is not who he says he is. He hid his so called grandmother and told her she could talk to nobody. I also her his book, dreams of my father (or what ever hell it was called) was about Frank Marshall who was also very married when he dated obama's mother. Jeff Rense had a couple of nudie pictures that Frank took of her on his site. Sad to say the least.

Anyhow Frank was also one of his mentors.

What Citizenwells proved and Atty Berg is there were two certificate of births listed on line. One on Obamas site and the other on fight the smears. LOL the problem is they were inconsistent . One had the birthdate as 8/3 and the other 8/4. (all it is.....is an announcement) whoop-di-do

flip side

28-07-2009, 09:46 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMB34vPP694&feature=rec-HM-r2

I like the way Lou doesn't jump the gun. He says he believes Obama is a US citizen, but doesn't know why he cant produce a birth cert. Yeah maybe a bit of fence sitting but he is asking the BIG QUESTION without opening himself up to the usual dis-crediting/mud flinging. If the big question is not answered, then Obama will rapidly lose support. Of course Lou is stuck in the left/right paradigm but I like the fact he covers stuff others dont touch. i.e. NAU etc.

mrindigo

28-07-2009, 09:46 PM

flip side

28-07-2009, 09:53 PM

As a side note: I seem to recall reading something before where it was claimed that his first name was actually Barry. I don't know how true that is, but it wouldn't surprise me.

Yeah I've seen that suggestion floating about. Sorry if anyone is called Barry here, I know it's just a name but I cant take that name seriously. Barry Evans, Barry Chuckle, Barry Manilow, Barry Obama? haa

http://www.freewebs.com/famousbarrys/ lol

real6

28-07-2009, 09:55 PM

Apparently Obama is not his real name. He was adopted under another name and might be using this one illegally. The media has produced a record of birth, not a real birth certificate, and according to experts it has been tampered with. Look like he was born in Kenya. The government is avoiding the issue and are clearly scared.

Barry Soetoro!!!

http://hillbuzz.org/2008/08/11/obamas-indonesian-teacher-confirms-his-real-name-is-barry-soetoro-the-name-he-was-enrolled-with-in-indonesian-catholic-and-public-schools/

Meet Israella Darmawan, Obama’s teacher at the Catholic school he attended in Indonesia before transferring to an Indonesian public school. Darmawan has school records showing “Barry Soetoro” is Barack Obama’s real, legal name — the name sources have revealed is actually on Obama’s birth certificate (which he won’t release to the public).

Via JakartaPost:

Israella Darmawan is every inch a teacher, from her shiny cap of black hair to her sensible shoes. In an office at the Fransiskus Assisi School, she shows me an old register with an entry for Barry Soetoro, as Barack Obama was know then. Bu Is taught Obama in the first grade. She admits she doesn’t remember all her students well, but Barry … well, he stood out.

Just like with Obama surrogate John “bathoom-hider” Edwards’ affair and love child, the mainstream media is refusing to report on the fact that Obama’s real name is Barry Soetoro, and that he refuses to release his birth certificate to clear up the ongoing mystery of what else, exactly, he is hiding from the American people.

Now we have the name and photo of Obama’s teacher, who knows him as “Barry Soetoro”. This can no longer be dismissed as rumor by the media. This woman is real. “Barry Soetoro’s” school records in Indonesia are real. “Barry Soetoro’s” birth certificate in Hawaii is real.

Just like with the Edwards scandal, it looks like it’s up to the blogoverse to make enough noise to expose Obama for the fraud that he is — and ask the question, “If Obama lies about who he really is and hides his birth certificate, what else is he hiding?”

If we don’t even know Obama’s real name, what else don’t we know about him?

real6

28-07-2009, 09:59 PM

The Fraud Of Barry Soetoro (a.k.a. Barack Hussein Obama)

http://educate-yourself.org/cn/orlytaitzletter24feb09.shtml

From Dr. Orly Taitz, ESQ <Dr_taitz@yahoo.com>
http://educate-yourself.org/cn/orlytaitzletter24feb09.shtml
February 24, 2009

Forward courtesy of Don Nicoloff <donnicoloff@mac.com>

The Fraud Of Barry Soetoro (a.k.a. Barack Hussein Obama) Feb. 28, 2009

http://defendourfreedoms.org/SenatorThuneEtAl1.htm

Attention Senator John Thune
Senate Armed Services Committee

Attention Senator Chuck Grassley
Senate Finance Committee

Attention Senator Diane Feinstein
Senate Committee on Intelligence
Senate Committee on Judiciary
Senate Defense Subcommittee

cc Senate
cc Congress

Open Letter

Via e-mail

February 11, 2009

Dear Senators and Congressmen:

Thank you for taking the time to review the documentation relevant to the Constitutional legitimacy of the presidency Barack Obama. There have been various problems with the vetting of Mr. Obama throughout the campaign and the present. I’d like to take the opportunity to highlight the most pertinent and alarming issues that have been clearly revealed. I’m sure you will agree that this information must be further investigated promptly before any damage is done to the United States and its citizens beyond the Constitutional compromises that currently exist. Most interesting, though, is the fact that Mr. Obama has not simply ordered the original vault copy of his birth certificate to be sealed and chosen to retain three (3) law firms to defend the various cases spending a reported $800,000 (of whose money?). If Mr. Obama has nothing to hide, then why fight the more than 42 cases in federal courts alone (according to Justia) and similar number in state courts of which the merits are well-founded and substantiated through factual evidence, state and federal statutes, and international laws? Main issue is that the state of HI, according to statue 338 allows Foreign born children of Hawaiian residents to obtain Hawaiian birth certificates and obtain them based on a statement of one relative only. There is plenty of evidence of Mr. Obama being born in Kenya and obtaining his Hawaiian birth certificate based on a statement of his grandparent only, who simply didn’t want to deal with immigration and not based on any records from any hospitals. Extensive searches in the State of Hawaii showed no birthing records for his mother [Stanley] Ann Dunham in any hospital in Hawaii.

I would also like to schedule a meeting with you, for which I will fly to Washington, D.C. to personally meet with you in the short term. Having been raised in the former Soviet Union, I am no stranger to horrors of communism, totalitarianism, civilian labor camp rule and I see clearly the path Mr. Obama is taking the United States. It is a downward spiral of total destruction of the constitution and economic infrastructure of this country. I urge you to look at the information thoroughly. Americans need to know that their president is a legitimate president and that their senators and representatives are upholding their oaths:

“I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God.”

As a Senator you have to uphold your oath and initiate proper committee and FBI investigation.

There are serious concerns about Mr. Obama’s identity and financial dealings. I have obtained a list of some 100 addresses under the name of Barack Obama (and similar spellings). These addresses are attached to different social security numbers. As you know the first three digits in a social security number signify the state. Those were issued all over the country. One of his social security numbers, that was used while he was a law student at Harvard and attached to his address in Sommervile MA, was issued in Ct and attached to a holder of this social security number , that is 118 years old. Clearly no human being can legally have dozens of different social security numbers and Soetoro/Obama is not a 118 years old. I believe there is evidence of massive fraud and massive financial fraud. I believe those units of Name/ss number/ addresses were used to fraction large campaign contributions and other transactions. There is evidence of campaign contributions coming from countries like Libya, Uganda, Palestinian authority and Saudi Arabia. Mr. Obama’s grandmother, Ms. Madelyn Dunham worked as a volunteer in probate department of the Oahu Circuit court and had access to the Social security numbers of the deceased individuals, which might explain the findings. Mr. Obama’s mother Ann Dunham, according to databases had numerous aliases and at least two social security numbers.

Mr. Obama was a chair of Annenberg Challenge. Officially he collected 50 million from Annenberg plus 110 million matching funds = 160 million total. There were reports that due to fund swap with Annenberg per se, he had as much as 500 million. This charity operated for 6 years and was supposed to increase student performance in Academics. After 6 years, there was zero improvement in comparison to other schools in Chicago and it is not clear what happened to 500 million donated. I saw their tax returns, they don’t show an explanation.

As a State Senator, Mr. Obama was retained by his friend, Mr. Robert Blackwell, to represent him as an attorney. (Mr. Obama worked for Miner law firm to supplement his $56K salary as a state senator ) Mr. Obama has used State Senator letterhead to solicit grants for Mr. Robert Blackwell. Mr. Blackwell consequently received $320k in State grants for his company and paid Mr. Obama $100K as a salary. Later upon inquiry, Mr. Obama buried the payment he received from Mr. Blackwell amongst hundreds of names of the clients of his firm. This was a clear case of public corruption, but Mr. Obama was never prosecuted, while other lawmakers are serving jail terms for such actions.

While being sworn as an attorney in the State of Illinois, Mr Obama had to provide his personal information under oath. He was asked, if he had any other names, he responded none. (I am in possession of his registration.) In reality, he used the name Barry Soetoro. I am in possession of his school registration in Indonesia, that clearly shows his name to be Barry Soetoro, citizen of Indonesia. Later it was reported that he studied at Occidental College in California [Los Angeles] under the name Barry Soetoro and there was an entry in the journal of the California assembly in re. to grants given to foreign exchange students, one Soetoro from Indonesia. Mr. Soetoro/Obama clearly defrauded the State Bar if Illinois and perjured himself while concealing his identity. Anybody else would’ve been disbarred for this and the matter would’ve been forwarded to the district attorney for prosecution for perjury and fraud, however nothing was done to Mr. Obama. More importantly, why did he conceal his identity?

I request all of this information to be forwarded to the Senate Armed Services Committee, Senate Finance Committee, Senate Judicial Committee, Mr. Steven Whitlock, director of the whistle blower office of the IRS, ICE, State Department, and FBI for further investigation.

Respectfully submitted,

Dr. Orly Taitz, Esq.

PS. It is my understanding, that in his stimulus package Mr. Obama has asked for 20 billion dollars for community based outreach organizations. Congress has approved it and Senate is cutting the funds to 4 billion, but intending to approve. In the end of November or 2008 I have formed a community based outreach organization DefendOurFreedoms.US. According to Alexa stat count, after only 2 months of existence, one and a half million readers visit my blog monthly and are working with me tirelessly exposing all the massive fraud, surrounding Mr. Soetoro/Obama and defending our Constitution and our freedoms. Four billion dollars will be a great financial help in this massive investigation and in protection of our Constitutional Republic. Please, advise how do I apply for this grant.

Encl.

The problems and inconsistency with ANNENBERG’S FACTCHECK.ORG statements, images, and documents of which US senators and representatives keep relying on as true and accurate.

Hawaii CERTIFICATION OF LIVE BIRTH vs. CERTIFICATE OF LIVE BIRTH

What was posted was not a birth certificate, but something that resembles a "Certification of Live Birth" or COLB, which, even if authentic, does not prove "natural born" U.S. citizenship. In Hawaii, a Certification of Live Birth is issued within a year of a child's birth to those who register a birth abroad or one that takes place outside a hospital. An authentice Certificate of Live Birth would be issued to someone born within the state of Hawaii.

BESIDE’S STATUTE 338-17.8 and other’s. see

§338-20.5 Adoption; foreign born persons. (a) The department of health shall establish a Hawaii certificate of birth for a person born in a foreign country and for whom a final decree of adoption has been entered in a court of competent jurisdiction in Hawaii, when it receives the following:

(1) A properly certified copy of the adoption decree, or certified abstract thereof on a form approved by the department; and

(2) A copy of any investigatory report and recommendation which may have been prepared by the director of social services; and

(3) A report on a form to be approved by the department of health setting forth the following:

(A) Date of assumption of custody;

(B) Sex;

(C) Color or race;

(D) Approximate age of child;

(E) Name and address of the person or persons adopting said child;

(F) Name given to child by adoptive parent or parents;

(G) True or probable country of birth.

The true or probable country of birth shall be known as the place of birth, and the date of birth shall be determined by approximation. This report shall constitute an original certificate of birth; and

(4) A request that a new certificate of birth be established.

(b) After preparation of the new certificate of birth in the new name of the adopted person, the department of health shall seal and file the certified copy of the adoptive decree, the investigatory report and recommendation of the director of human services if any, the report constituting the original certificate of birth, and the request for a new certificate of birth. The sealed documents may be opened by the department only by an order of a court of record or when requested in accordance with section 578-14.5 or 578-15. The new certificate of birth shall show the true or probable foreign country of birth, and that the certificate is not evidence of United States citizenship for the child for whom it is issued or for the adoptive parents. [L 1979, c 203, §3; am L 1990, c 338, §3]

§338-41 Issuance; procedure. (a) The department of health may make regulations respecting the form of Hawaiian birth certificates and certified copies of such certificates and other matters relating to Hawaii birth certificates as appear necessary and the regulations, when approved and made in accordance with chapter 91, shall have the force of law. The department shall furnish the form of the certificates and copies made therefrom.

(b) Any certificate of Hawaiian birth issued heretofore under or by virtue of any law of the Territory of Hawaii or the State, shall be prima facie evidence of the facts therein stated. [L 1911, c 96, §1; am L 1923, c 246, §1; RL 1925, §196; am L 1927, c 202, §1; RL 1935, §7610; RL 1945, §12910; am L 1951, c 132, §1; RL 1955, §57-40; am L Sp 1959 2d, c 1, §9; am L 1965, c 96, §39; HRS §338-41; am L 1970, c 11, §1; am L 1972, c 66, §1(4)]

Case Notes

Prima facie evidence overcome by competent evidence of nonidentification. 4 U.S.D.C. Haw. 258.

Certificate not controlling upon U.S. immigration officials re admission of Chinese. 217 F. 48; 35 Op. U.S. Att. Gen. 69.

OBAMA REFUSE'S TO SHOW HIS 'VAULTED BIRTH CERTIFICATE, PASSPORT, COLLEGE, AND COMPLETE MEDICAL RECORDS.

Read or glance at many of the Laws on Hawaii Statutes:

http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0017_0008.htm

http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol12_Ch0501-0588/HRS0578/HRS_0578-.htm
or complete list of laws
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov

Furthermore, Hawaii statements:

A press release was issued on October 31, 2008, by the Hawaii Department of Health by its Director, Dr. Chiyome Fukino. Dr. Fukino said that she had “personally seen and verified that the Hawaii State Department of Health has Senator Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.” That statement failed to resolve any of the questions being raised by litigation and press accounts.

Being “on record” could mean either that its contents are in the computer database of the department or there is an actual “vault” original.”

Further, the report does not say whether the birth certificate in the “record” is a Certification of Live Birth, Certificate of Live Birth, or a Certificate of Hawaiian Birth. In Hawaii, a Certificate of Live Birth resulting from hospital documentation, including a signature of an attending physician, is different from a Certificate of Hawaiian Birth. For births prior to 1972, a Certificate of Hawaiian Birth was the result of the uncorroborated testimony of one witness and was not generated by a hospital. Such a Certificate could be obtained up to one year from the date of the child’s birth. For that reason, its value as prima facie evidence is limited and could be overcome if any of the allegations of substantial evidence of birth outside Hawaii can be obtained.

The vault (long Version) birth certificate, per Hawaiian Statute 883.176 allows the birth in another State or another country to be registered in Hawaii. Box 7C of the vault Certificate of Live Birth contains a question, whether the birth was in Hawaii or another State or Country. Therefore, the only way to verify the exact location of birth is to review a certified copy or the original vault Certificate of Live Birth and compare the name of the hospital and the name and the signature of the doctor against the birthing records on file at the hospital noted on the Certificate of the Live Birth.

FACTCHECK.ORG REPORTED:

August 29, 2008

Q: Does Barack Obama have Kenyan citizenship?

The Rocky Mountain News has reported (below) that Barack Obama "Holds both American and Kenyan (since 1963) citizenship." Is this true?

The Rocky Mountain News
August 6, 2008

Entered Harvard Law School in 1988, was elected the first African–American editor of the Harvard Law Review. He graduated magna cum laude in 1991.

Won two Grammys for Best Spoken Word Albums for an autobiography in 1995 “Dreams From My Father: A Story of Race and Inheritance” and his second book, “The Audacity of Hope: Thoughts on Reclaiming the American Dream,” published in October 2006.

Mother Ann Dunham died of ovarian cancer in 1995. Father Barack Obama Sr. was killed in a car wreck in 1982.

Spent four years in his stepfather’s native country of Indonesia.

Is the fifth African-American senator in U.S. history

Is the first presidential candidate to come from Hawaii.

Favorite movies: “The Godfather” (Parts I and II) and “Lawrence of Arabia.”

In his early years he was known as Barry.

According to his memoirs, he admitted using alcohol, marijuana and cocaine in his youth.

His first name comes from the word that means “blessed by God” in Arabic.

At his wife’s suggestion, he quit smoking before his campaign to win the Democratic nomination began.

Holds both American and Kenyan (since 1963) citizenship.

Named one of Time magazine’s “100 most influential people in the world” list in 2005 and 2007.

Chosen as one of “10 people would change the world” by New Statesman magazine (2005).

Source: biography.com , Internet Movie Database, Atlanta Journal Constitution

A: No. He held both U.S. and Kenyan citizenship as a child, but lost his Kenyan citizenship automatically on his 21st birthday.

The Rocky Mountain News did in fact run an online article asserting that Barack Obama holds both American and Kenyan citizenship. The article was incorrect, and the paper removed the item from the article and ran a correction. The paper's editor, John Temple, formally apologized for the error in an Aug. 15, 2007, column. Neither the correction nor the apology has prevented the column from circulating across the Internet as part of the latest set of baseless rumors that Obama is ineligible to run for president.

There was a grain of truth to what the Rocky Mountain News reported, though understanding why requires a brief history lesson.

When Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4, 1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was a British colony, still part of the United Kingdom's dwindling empire. As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.'s children:

British Nationality Act of 1948 (Part II, Section 5): Subject to the provisions of this section, a person born after the commencement of this Act shall be a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by descent if his father is a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies at the time of the birth.

In other words, at the time of his birth, Barack Obama Jr. was both a U.S. citizen (by virtue of being born in Hawaii) and a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies (or the UKC) by virtue of being born to a father who was a citizen of the UKC.
Obama's British citizenship was short-lived. On Dec. 12, 1963, Kenya formally gained its independence from the United Kingdom. Chapter VI, Section 87 of the Kenyan Constitution specifies that:

1. Every person who, having been born in Kenya, is on 11th December, 1963 a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies or a British protected person shall become a citizen of Kenya on 12th December, 1963...

2. Every person who, having been born outside Kenya, is on 11th December, 1963 a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies or a British protected person shall, if his father becomes, or would but for his death have become, a citizen of Kenya by virtue of subsection (1), become a citizen of Kenya on 12th December, 1963.

As a citizen of the UKC who was born in Kenya, Obama's father automatically received Kenyan citizenship via subsection (1). So given that Obama qualified for citizen of the UKC status at birth and given that Obama's father became a Kenyan citizen via subsection (1), it follows that Obama did in fact have Kenyan citizenship after 1963. So The Rocky Mountain News was at least partially correct.

But the paper failed to note that the Kenyan Constitution prohibits dual citizenship for adults. Kenya recognizes dual citizenship for children, but Kenya's Constitution specifies that at age 21, Kenyan citizens who possesses citizenship in more than one country automatically lose their Kenyan citizenship unless they formally renounce any non-Kenyan citizenship and swear an oath of allegiance to Kenya.

Since Sen. Obama has neither renounced his U.S. citizenship nor sworn an oath of allegiance to Kenya, his Kenyan citizenship automatically expired on Aug. 4,1982.

- Joe Miller

Sources

Rocky Mountain News Staff. " Things You Might Not Know About Barack Obama." 6 August 2007. The Rocky Mountain News. 24 August 2008.

Temple, John. " 8-word Gaffe Ripples Across Web." 15 August 2007. The Rocky Mountain News. 24 August 2008.

The British Nationality Act, 1948. 1948. 24 August 2008.

"The Constitution of Kenya." 1963 (revised, 2001). The Parliament of Kenya. 24 August 2008.

Copyright © 2003 - 2009, Annenberg Public Policy Center of the University of Pennsylvania
FactCheck.org's staff, not the Annenberg Center, is responsible for this material.

Article II of the Constitution does not allow for dual-citizenship or allegiance to another country.

In addition to the above, Obama would have been a U.S. citizen, 8 USC §1481(a)(2) provides loss of nationality by native born citizens upon "taking an oath or making an affirmation or other formal declaration of allegiance to a foreign state ... after having attained the age of eighteen years," in violation of 8 U.S.C. §1401(a)(1). Simply put, since Indonesia did not allow for dual citizenship, if Obama got that passport in 1981, when he was 20 years old, he effectively renounced any U.S. citizenship he may have had.

“So, if the experts are right, Obama forged a Certification of Live Birth to fool America. In addition to the automatic Indonesian citizenship granted to a child acknowledged as a "son" by an Indonesian male citizen, and the Indonesian citizenship listed in Obama's school records, Obama then traveled to a place where Americans weren't allowed to go, but citizens of Indonesia were. If he obtained an Indonesian passport on his trip in 1981, he effectively renounced any American citizenship he may have had and cannot serve as president (or "rule" as president, as members of his campaign have stated). These are serious questions that must have answers.

But beyond the birth certificate issue, there's the matter that Obama traveled to Indonesia, Pakistan, Southern India and Kenya in 1981. He said he went to Indonesia to see his mother. This seemed plausible, except for the fact that his mother returned to Hawaii in August of 1980 to file for a divorce from her second husband, Lolo Soetoro. Unless she went back to pal around with the man she divorced, she wasn't there at the time of Obama's visit.

There's another problem. No record of Obama holding an American passport prior to the one he received once becoming a U.S. senator has been found. If he traveled to Pakistan with an American passport, he wouldn't have been allowed in – since Pakistan was in turmoil in 1981 and under martial law. It was also on the State Department's travel ban list for U.S. citizens.

If he couldn't get into Pakistan with a U.S. passport, perhaps he went there with an Indonesian passport. But the only way you can get one of those is if you are an Indonesian citizen.

That's quite possible since under Indonesian law, when a male acknowledges a child as his son, it deems the son – in this case Obama – to be an Indonesian state citizen, which was also recorded by Obama's school record.

So, if he didn't go to Indonesia in 1981 to visit mom (who had returned to Hawaii by then), might it have something to do with the fact that Indonesian passports expire every five years and it was time for renewal?” Source (WorldNetDaily, November 25, 2008)

SELECTIVE SERVICE FORM PROBLEMS:

FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT (source: Debbie Schlussel):

Did President-elect Barack Hussein Obama commit a federal crime in September of this year? Or did he never actually register and, instead, did friends of his in the Chicago federal records center, which maintains the official copy of his alleged Selective Service registration commit the crime for him?

It's either one or the other, as indicated by the release of Barack Obama's official Selective Service registration for the draft. A friend of mine, who is a retired federal agent, spent almost a year trying to obtain this document through a Freedom of Information Act request, and, after much stonewalling, finally received it and released it to me.

But the release of Obama's draft registration and an accompanying document, posted below, raises more questions than it answers. And it shows many signs of fraud, not to mention putting the lie to Obama's claim that he registered for the draft in June 1979, before it was required by law.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/REAL6/1-5.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/REAL6/2-4.jpg

The official campaign for President may be over. But Barack Obama's Selective Service registration card and accompanying documents show that questions about him are not only NOT over, but if the signature on the document is in fact his, our next Commander-in-Chief may have committed a federal crime in 2008, well within the statute of limitations on the matter. If it is not his, then it's proof positive that our next Commander-in-Chief never registered with the Selective Service as required by law. By law, he was required to register and was legally able to do so until the age of 26.

But the Selective Service System registration ("SSS Form 1") and accompanying computer print-out ("SSS Print-out), below, released by the Selective Service show the following oddities and irregularities, all of which indicate the document was created in 2008 and backdated:

* Document Location Number Indicates Obama Selective Service Form was Created in 2008

First, there is the Document Location Number (DLN) on the form. In the upper right hand corner of the Selective Service form SSS Form 1, there is the standard Bates-stamped DLN, in this case "0897080632," which I've labeled as "A" on both the SSS Form and the computer printout document. On the form, it reflects a 2008 creation, but on the printout, an extra eight was added in front of the number to make it look like it is from 1980, when it was actually created in 2008.

mrindigo

28-07-2009, 09:59 PM

Yeah I've seen that suggestion floating about. Sorry if anyone is called Barry here, I know it's just a name but I cant take that name seriously. Barry Evans, Barry Chuckle, Barry Manilow, Barry Obama? haa

http://www.freewebs.com/famousbarrys/ lol

Haha. Here's the only cool Barry. :cool:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCIkPsUYQhg

real6

28-07-2009, 10:02 PM

Haha. Here's the only cool Barry. :cool:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCIkPsUYQhg

That's what i put on at night when i wanna make some babies ;)

The world needs to hear some Barry White, have a glass of wine and smoke a joint and the world will be a better place :)

hawk

28-07-2009, 10:04 PM

They don't even call him Mr.President.They just call him Mr. Obama. Don't you think that would give it away just a little? :rolleyes:

mrindigo

28-07-2009, 10:05 PM

Wow that's some pretty serious stuff, real6. If that is in fact legit, then things could get very interesting soon.

mrindigo

28-07-2009, 10:07 PM

That's what i put on at night when i wanna make some babies ;)

The world needs to hear some Barry White, have a glass of wine and smoke a joint and the world will be a better place :)

I'll second that! :)

real6

28-07-2009, 10:16 PM

Wow that's some pretty serious stuff, real6. If that is in fact legit, then things could get very interesting soon.

I dont play, i find info quick...

Now take me to your Earth women ;)

yozhik

29-07-2009, 01:23 AM

Wow that's some pretty serious stuff, real6. If that is in fact legit, then things could get very interesting soon.

I have this nagging question in the back of my head ...

Why was this not done PRIOR to him being elected?
It's not as if the election campaign was short.
How was he even allowed to go through the Democratic nomination process?
I just don't "get it".

bendoon

29-07-2009, 02:29 AM

They have a hold over him should he decide to go off message, saves a messy assasination.

mrindigo

29-07-2009, 03:43 AM

I have this nagging question in the back of my head ...

Why was this not done PRIOR to him being elected?
It's not as if the election campaign was short.
How was he even allowed to go through the Democratic nomination process?
I just don't "get it".

That is a good question. Why was he allowed to go through all of that and reach the point that he did? Could this birth certificate drama actually be yet another distraction? Or was it simply caught a little too late?

My guess is too many people were hypnotized by him early on to pay any kind of attention to things like that. Now that they're noticing that the only thing changing here is trillions of dollars disappearing over night. They're looking at things that others had been trying to tell them about from the start. I think the growing numbers of people aware of this feel a bit stupid for falling for his bullshit, and want retribution.

waiting41

29-07-2009, 04:29 AM

Barack "Barry" Obama is an American citizen. His step-father's last name was Soetro, and he was registered for school in Indonesia under that name when he lived there with his mother and step-father. He then returned to Hawaii and lived with his maternal grandparents. His mother was an American citizen, and the claims by "birthers" is rubbish.

There were attempts before the election by these people to repudiate his authenticity as a citizen. They were refuted. It appears to me that some people just refuse to accept that their side lost and we have a black president.

bendoon

29-07-2009, 04:34 AM

their side lost and .

Really, its nothing to do with sides, he got the job by fraud, how can you expect someone to be an honest President when his whole life is a fraud. Its a matter of whats righta and whats wrong.

mrindigo

29-07-2009, 04:48 AM

waiting41

29-07-2009, 04:50 AM

The state of Hawaii has verified the legitimacy of his birth records. And I'm sorry, but it does have something do with his race, not just his political ideology.

flip side

29-07-2009, 05:09 AM

The state of Hawaii has verified the legitimacy of his birth records. And I'm sorry, but it does have something do with his race, not just his political ideology.

Who said it was to do with race? You did. We are talking about a constitutional issue. Please dont twist it. Thank you. The state of Hawaii has not legally verified it as they haven't produced a birth certificate. What is the problem here? Until the birth cert is shown your arguement will go round in circles.

mynameis

29-07-2009, 05:11 AM

Teh Lulz!

Frothing Town Hall Birther Identified, Described As Too Crazy For Right Wing Radio
By Logan Murphy Tuesday Jul 28, 2009 5:00pm

It's no secret that a large chunk of what remains of the Republican Party base is made up of under-informed, far-right extremists and the like. Take for instance, the above now-infamous video of a woman who went berserk over the Birther conspiracy at a town hall meeting last week in Delaware. We're now learning more about her, and as it turns out she's well known in certain circles in her hometown and is so far out of her skull that even a conservative leaning radio station has banned her from calling:

When a woman in a red shirt stood up in a Georgetown senior center on June 30 and began yelling at U.S. Rep. Mike Castle about President Barack Obama's birth certificate, her rant was caught on video and has since become a TV and Internet sensation.

The star of the show -- known as "Crazy Eileen" to callers of a Sussex County talk radio station -- has gone into seclusion, declining interviews and avoiding publicity, even as previous statements by her have emerged referring to Obama as "the antichrist" and speaking of aliens and angels.

...According to another WGMD host, Jared Morris, she has been banned from calling the station -- known for its conservative leanings and hosts -- on several occasions. Read on...

http://crooksandliars.com/logan-murphy/frothing-town-hall-birther-well-known

mynameis

29-07-2009, 05:13 AM

Who said it was to do with race? You did. We are talking about a constitutional issue. Please dont twist it. Thank you. The state of Hawaii has not legally verified it as they haven't produced a birth certificate. What is the problem here? Until the birth cert is shown your arguement will go round in circles.

Hawaii did verify it by sending him a certificate of live birth, i.e. a writ of law stating who he is and where he was born.

flip side

29-07-2009, 05:14 AM

Teh Lulz!

http://crooksandliars.com/logan-murphy/frothing-town-hall-birther-well-known

Discredit, discredit, discredit. Yawn.

Still, the birth certificate would be nice!

mynameis

29-07-2009, 05:17 AM

Discredit, discredit, discredit. Yawn.

Still, the birth certificate would be nice!

How would you protect that document flip side? It's the only original copy. Having a mind meltdown about how the law works in this case?

In Florida, a "certificate of live birth" is the original certificate completed at the time of the child's birth. It is prepared by the hospital and includes the signatures of at least one of the parents and usually the physician or another witness to the birth. Once the "certificate of live birth" has been completed, it is sent to the Florida Office of Vital Statistics, who files the document and issues certified copies when requested. When ordering a Florida birth certificate, you can ask for a "photocopy certificate" - which is an exact photocopy of the original "certificate of live birth". They can only be ordered from the state office in Jacksonville, since that is where the actual certificate is stored.

A "Certification of Birth" also known as a "computer copy" is a document issued by the Florida Office of Vital Statistics that only includes some of the information from the original "certificate of live birth". It usually states only the name, sex, date of birth, place of birth, parents' names, and the state file number. These types of birth certificates are cheaper and can be purchased from any Vital Statistics office in the state of Florida (and each county has one).

Now for adopted persons, the policy is different. When the child is born, their birth certificate is completed like normal. However, once the child is adopted, the state of Florida creates a NEW "certificate of live birth" that shows the child's adoptive name and the names of the adoptive parents. The original "certificate of live birth" containing the names of the original parents is "sealed", meaning that it is locked up and can never be opened again without a court order. So, when an adopted person orders a birth certificate - whether it's a "photocopy" ("certificate of live birth") or "computer copy" ("certification of birth"), it will only show the adoptive name of the child and the names of the adoptive parents.

flip side

29-07-2009, 06:26 AM

How would you protect that document flip side? It's the only original copy. Having a mind meltdown about how the law works in this case?

No meltdown here thanks mate. Is Obama saying he doesn't have his original or copy of his original birth certificate? No. Mr Obama has locked these vital documents away alongside health and school records in a vault protected by lawyers. Is this behaviour of a man with a clear conscience? A photocopy of live births with limited information does not prove his case, hence the issue still rumbles on.

He is concealing the truth something he so adamantly claimed he was opposed to on his tireless election campaign.

mynameis

29-07-2009, 06:46 AM

No meltdown here thanks mate. Is Obama saying he doesn't have his original or copy of his original birth certificate? No. Mr Obama has locked these vital documents away alongside health and school records in a vault protected by lawyers. Is this behaviour of a man with a clear conscience? A photocopy of live births with limited information does not prove his case, hence the issue still rumbles on.

He is concealing the truth something he so adamantly claimed he was opposed to on his tireless election campaign.

Proof? It is not Obama or his lawyers it's the State of Hawaii. If he doesn't care to share his school record that's also his personal information? Perhaps he cares more about his own privacy than he does the ordinary flip side and, that said, still does not pass the BS meter put out by the fringe theorist. I.E. you do not respect the State of Hawaii's laws either and those in a democracy. The lunatic fringe theorist is in the video in the first post to clear up confusion of the edit. Examples like this head case speak more volumes of poor cognitive ability than a birth certificate. Also the Supreme Court already found the birth documents submitted to the SCOTUS were valid, I.E. in keeping with law and are perfect and transparent on that issue.

Supreme Court Not Considering Obama's Birth Certificate Case
Posted:
12/5/08

http://www.politicsdaily.com/2008/12/05/supreme-court-not-considering-obamas-birth-certificate-case/
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-obama-birth-certificate1dec08,0,7258812.story

More nails to this crappy rickety coffin.

Posted: 11:04 AM Jul 28, 2009
Last Updated: 11:04 AM Jul 28, 2009
53 comments
State officials again are confirming that President Barack Obama was born in Hawaii.

Health Director Dr. Chiyome Fukino said Monday she has seen the
original birth records that verify Obama was born in Hawaii, and is
a "natural-born American citizen."

Fukino made the announcement in hopes of ending any lingering
rumors about Obama's citizenship. She issued a similar press
release Oct. 31.

State law bars release of a certified birth certificate to anyone who does not have a tangible interest.

Some Obama critics claim he is ineligible to be president, arguing he was not born in the U.S., as the Constitution requires.

They have challenged his citizenship in court.

http://www.witn.com/nationalworld/headlines/51825227.html

nocturne of shadow

29-07-2009, 06:50 AM

the first time a saw wutbama it didn't feel right he's so perfect as if you dislike him you are thought of as a racist just another one of those power plays :p

nocturne of shadow

29-07-2009, 06:52 AM

Proof? It is not Obama or his lawyers it's the State of Hawaii. If he doesn't care to share his school record that's also his personal information? Perhaps he cares more about his own privacy than he does the ordinary flip side and, that said, still does not pass the BS meter put out by the fringe theorist. I.E. you do not respect the State of Hawaii's laws either and those in a democracy. The lunatic fringe theorist is in the video in the first post to clear up confusion of the edit. Examples like this head case speak more volumes of poor cognitive ability than a birth certificate. Also the Supreme Court already found the birth documents submitted to the SCOTUS were valid, I.E. in keeping with law and are perfect and transparent on that issue.

umm being the preasdent you kinda have to give this info out,any way who cares we all know obama is a scared tool

mynameis

29-07-2009, 07:06 AM

umm being the preasdent you kinda have to give this info out,any way who cares we all know obama is a scared tool

Did you not read? I post it again just for you.

Health Director Dr. Chiyome Fukino said Monday she has seen the
original birth records that verify Obama was born in Hawaii, and is
a "natural-born American citizen."

It's not for everyone to see it. Get it? Now maybe Canadians and other governments do show theirs, but that's not how the law works in the United States.

wakeuptime

29-07-2009, 12:49 PM

I see we've got some trolls circling this post. No surprise as its a super hot issue and could bring down the placeman puppet sent by the NWO group.

Thanks to Real6 for your great info.

For the record, a certificate of live birth is not a birth certificate. No president should have such a sense of privacy he won't show his birth certificate or school records. What's he hiding?

As for "Crazy Eileen", was the entire room full of crazy Eileens? They all start shouting, joining in. I've never seen a group of people rise up and side with a crazy person.

Fact is this is serious information and could halt the totalitarian push that's under way in America and, by extension, help shut down the NWO.

dankai

29-07-2009, 02:06 PM

waiting41

29-07-2009, 02:36 PM

mynameis

29-07-2009, 02:39 PM

I see we've got some trolls circling this post.

Fact is this is serious information and could halt the totalitarian push that's under way in America and, by extension, help shut down the NWO.

Ah yes the oldest tactic: Nothing left but name calling. A change of puppet doesn't change their long term plans of destruction no matter how roses and rainbows, madness affects Eileen. Let me put it like this, a crazy person like O'Reilly or Fox hosts are virtual rabble rousers. They are paid by the MIC to spit game and get others to act out for the government crackdowns called: Problem, Reaction, and Solution or PRS for short. The pathway behind this effect is empowering themselves as a leader in the eyes of their listeners. They have full knowledge that they won't go out and commit acts of evil they are too scared and spineless, this is why they tell their audience to go out and do these acts. Would you follow the village crazy poking people in the eye with their stick because of their paranoia? No. You wouldn't, but these pundits give their audience their own stick to go out and poke people in the eye. This is how their game is played. Without attention they are just paranoid and raving government stooges.

waiting41

29-07-2009, 02:41 PM

Ah yes the oldest tactic: Nothing left but name calling. A change of puppet doesn't change their long term plans of destruction no matter how roses and rainbows, madness affects Eileen.

I agree. Being a relatively new poster and disagreeing with the accusations, autoimatically makes a person a troll, eh?

anthony65

29-07-2009, 02:42 PM

So wonderful to witness this. Made my blood rush and heart beat a bit faster watching this.

Me too!

She was incredibly passionate but kept her arguments together and the crowd, which looked a conservative bunch, really got behind her!

This looks like mainstream America waking up and getting angry!

waiting41

29-07-2009, 02:44 PM

I wouldn't call these Americans mainstream at all. They supported Bush, no doubt. The worst thing to happen to our country in a long time.

dankai

29-07-2009, 02:44 PM

My guess is too many people were hypnotized by him early on to pay any kind of attention to things like that. Now that they're noticing that the only thing changing here is trillions of dollars disappearing over night. They're looking at things that others had been trying to tell them about from the start. I think the growing numbers of people aware of this feel a bit stupid for falling for his bullshit, and want retribution.

Exactly. All the sheeple were in a daze, gawking with drool dripping from the corners of their mouths at their "savior" that smiled a lot, and said things like "hope" and "change" over and over and over. Reminds me of chapter 13 in the book of Revelation.

Pretty interesting to note is the following. I found this posted elsewhere:

Actually, Obama is the FIRST BEAST of Revelation 13 who emerges from the sea. Hence, Obama was born in Honolulu, Hawaii (from the midst of the vast Pacific Sea), which has the north latitude of 21.6 degrees. This number is a derivative of the "Number of the Beast", which is "666", because 6 X 6 X 6 = 216. Also this Beast will be a "King" (President), and the title and name "King B. H. Obama, Jr." transposes in Gematria into "666". Also, his first name "Barack" = "36", and when all the digits from 1 through 36 are individually summed, the result is "666".

According to Revelation 13 this Beast will receive a mortal head wound and will die (thus Obama will be assassinated), but later he will miraculously come back to life through the supernatural aid of the Second Beast, who will be the "False Prophet". When this occurs, then the First Beast will assume the role as the (False) Messiah as Satan incarnate, and he will bring total destruction to all the Earth and all the nations of the world.

Verse 2 states that he was like unto a leopard (indication of Africa perhaps?), feet were as the feet of a bear (foundation is communism perhaps?) mouth like a lion (speaks greatly perhaps?) and the dragon gave him his power and his seat and great authority (the elite perhaps?).

Just tossing around some ideas.

waiting41

29-07-2009, 02:46 PM

Way off.

dankai

29-07-2009, 02:55 PM

Believe me, if Obama was unqualified to be president, he never would have been able to pull it off. If he was not a legal citizen, it would have been proven with irrefutable evidence and we wouldn't be having this conversation. This is an attempt by the right wing fringe in America to invalidate his authority. They don't like his ideology and they are claiming that they are the real Americans, when in fact, they don't represent the majority of Americans. The "war on terror" sold to them so effectively by Bush and Co. has warped their ability to reason without extreme paranoia about Arabs and brown people trying to destroy our way of life.

That's not necessarily true. The Founding Fathers put Article II Section 1 in the Constitution because they completely believed it was possible to pull off. Just because it's written in the Constitution doesn't prevent it from being accomplished. We The People are the ones left with the responsibility of making sure the words are upheld. Without us enforcing it, the Constitution is a useless piece of paper. That is our duty as set forth for us in the Declaration of Independence. Abuses and Usurpations doesn't mean solely physical abuses. They were concerned with Rights of the People.

But when a long Train of Abuses and Userpations, pursuing invariably the same Object, evinces a Design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their Right, it is their Duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future Security.

dankai

29-07-2009, 02:56 PM

Way off.

My bad.

mynameis

29-07-2009, 02:58 PM

That's not necessarily true. The Founding Fathers put Article II Section 1 in the Constitution because they completely believed it was possible to pull off. Just because it's written in the Constitution doesn't prevent it from being accomplished. We The People are the ones left with the responsibility of making sure the words are upheld. Without us enforcing it, the Constitution is a useless piece of paper. That is our duty as set forth for us in the Declaration of Independence. Abuses and Usurpations doesn't mean solely physical abuses. They were concerned with Rights of the People.

The Declaration of Independence is not part of the U.S.A. Constitution. If they didn't rise up against Bush/Clinton & Co. they shouldn't for this guy trying to set about their agendas either. So far there's been only a small headwind into tyranny. If O was ever a villain, he remains unexposed. Sure he's not going to be a popular POTUS, but that doesn't mean he's acting as a villain yet.

waiting41

29-07-2009, 03:09 PM

I agree^^

He doesn't come close to being the constitutional tyrant that Bush was. He is simply trying to clean up some of the mess he was left with. He has not proven himself to be a tyrant. Arguing for equality and for realistic solutions to some very bad problems isn't overthrowing the constitution. I have some problems with him allowing some of Bush's policies to remain, and for not being quick enough in the way he is leveling the playing field. DOMA, DADT, and Gitmo all need to go, and the Democrats need to get behind him and get these things done.

breezinreezin

29-07-2009, 03:17 PM

The state of Hawaii has verified the legitimacy of his birth records. And I'm sorry, but it does have something do with his race, not just his political ideology.

No it doesn't. It has something to do with his legitimacy to be president. But the fact that you want to make it a race issue is a really good example of why TPTB so badly wanted him as president in the first place: his 'blackness' goes some way to putting him beyond repproach and gives him some degree of protection that a white president would not have. Now any imcompetance or intense scrutiny, as in this case, can be met with: "you're only saying that because he's black". That would make him a sort of 'affirmative action president'. Is that what you want?

dankai

29-07-2009, 03:17 PM

The Declaration of Independence is not part of the U.S.A. Constitution. If they didn't rise up against Bush/Clinton & Co. they shouldn't for this guy trying to set about their agendas either. So far there's been only a small headwind into tyranny. If O was ever a villain, he remains unexposed. Sure he's not going to be a popular POTUS, but that doesn't mean he's acting as a villain yet.

Firstly, I'm positive I made it quite clear that the quote I posted was from The Declaration of Independence, so good on ya mate for being observant.

Secondly, what does tyranny look like? small headwind into tyranny? no matter the degree, we should be vigilant to prevent it at all.

IMO he is acting the villain by not simply showing us his birth certificate. hiding his past via large sums of money to law firms across the country.

waiting41

29-07-2009, 03:25 PM

No it doesn't. It has something to do with his legitimacy to be president. But the fact that you want to make it a race issue is a really good example of why TPTB so badly wanted him as president in the first place: his 'blackness' goes some way to putting him beyond repproach and gives him some degree of protection that a white president would not have. Now any imcompetance or intense scrutiny, as in this case, can be met with: "you're only saying that because he's black". That would make him a sort of 'affirmative action president'. Is that what you want?

No, I don't want that. But I live here in America and I wait tables. You would be shocked (I assume) at the out and out racist remarks that are made about Obama every day. I live in the North, which is incorrectly thought of as racially tolerant. That is a lie. There might be more racists in the North than in the South. And Palin and McCain fed into this with their Barack Hussein Obama being a fried to domestic terrorists drivel. They played that card and it is still fomenting and making it's way around the country. It takes root in the people who feel left out by the system and overlooked in their struggles. Do you hear a single black person questioning his citizenship? If you do, chances are they are Republican. Our Congress has just signed onto the fact that he is a citizen, even the Republicans and the far right members. If he wasn't a citizen, would they have done that?
29-07-2009 06:17 AM

mynameis

29-07-2009, 03:31 PM

Firstly, I'm positive I made it quite clear that the quote I posted was from The Declaration of Independence, so good on ya mate for being observant.

Secondly, what does tyranny look like? small headwind into tyranny? no matter the degree, we should be vigilant to prevent it at all.

IMO he is acting the villain by not simply showing us his birth certificate. hiding his past via large sums of money to law firms across the country.

Now you are suggesting States that don't turn over birth records somehow make those citizens criminals and villains? I don't follow you logic here. Bush & Co. is full blown tyranny, but I didn't see anything done about that and now we have all these problems and you want to turn off a blind eye to a birth certificate. People like Eileen seem more like hypocrites.

mynameis

29-07-2009, 03:33 PM

Congress has just signed onto the fact that he is a citizen, even the Republicans and the far right members. If he wasn't a citizen, would they have done that?
29-07-2009 06:17 AM

+1

flip side

29-07-2009, 06:23 PM

@ mynameis and waiting: You turn this into a left/right/race issue :rolleyes:. It's clearly not, I've already made it clear that it's a constitutional issue. Do you not want 100% confirmation that your commander in chief is an American Citizen? Obama can finish the descent over night by producing his birth certificate which HE HAS. For you to say: 'He doesn't have to, HE'S THE PWESIDENT!' shows you dont quite grasp the issue yet. Anyway I'm bored in going round in circles over this, we will see.

danster82

29-07-2009, 10:20 PM

Talk about a non issue.

Really just low tripe, besides why is she speaking as if she owns America it belongs to everyone if you were born there or not. This is the sound of an ego she wants to feel special, she could use her time addressing real issues like Obamas collusion with the banking cartel, she probably hasnt got a clue if Obamas policy is good for her or bad but she is totally offended and concerned that he may not be an American Citizen.

mynameis

29-07-2009, 10:26 PM

@ mynameis and waiting: You turn this into a left/right/race issue :rolleyes:. It's clearly not, I've already made it clear that it's a constitutional issue.

Putting claims up, lets see where I turned this into a race issue as you have just done, prior your claim? It is a State of Hawaii issue. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Your accusatory statement lacks the necessary proof.

mynameis

29-07-2009, 10:29 PM

nocturne of shadow

29-07-2009, 11:26 PM

why are you defending obama?

flip side

29-07-2009, 11:57 PM

Putting claims up, lets see where I turned this into a race issue as you have just done, prior your claim? It is a State of Hawaii issue. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Your accusatory statement lacks the necessary proof.

I wasn't directing the claim of race at you it was waiting41 who seemed to be suggesting if you were questioning Obama's natural born citizenship it was in some way a race thing, wrong. I apologise if I didn't make that clear

I'm going to say it again and for the last time, the short form certificate of live birth printed from a Hawaii computer DOES NOT confirm Barrack Obama's 'natural born citizen status'

I'm going to copy some information on the four different ways to obtain an 'original birth certificate' in Hawaii 1961. You will see that the levels of evidence required greatly varies. Therfore, only the Birth Certificate stored in the vault would clear this up. Again, the question remains, why not release it then?

I'd recommend reading the whole article here though: http://www.westernjournalism.com/?page_id=2697

In the State of Hawaii, back in 1961, there were four different ways to get an “original birth certificate” on record. They varied greatly in their reliability as evidence. For convenience, I’ll call them BC1, BC2, BC3, and BC4.

BC1. If the birth was attended by a physician or mid wife, the attending medical professional was required to certify to the Department of Health the facts of the birth date, location, parents’ identities and other information. (See Section 57-8 & 9 of the Territorial Public Health Statistics Act in the 1955 Revised Laws of Hawaii which was in effect in 1961).

Actual long form Certificate of Live Birth similar to one Obama refuses to release

BC2. In 1961, if a person was born in Hawaii but not attended by a physician or midwife, then all that was required was that one of the parents send in a birth certificate to be filed. The birth certificate could be filed by mail. There appears to have been no requirement for the parent to actually physically appear before “the local registrar of the district.” It would have been very easy for a relative to forge an absent parent’s signature to a form and mail it in. In addition, if a claim was made that “neither parent of the newborn child whose birth is unattended as above provided is able to prepare a birth certificate, the local registrar shall secure the necessary information from any person having knowledge of the birth and prepare and file the certificate.” (Section 57-8&9) I asked the Dept of Health what they currently ask for (in 2008) to back up a parent’s claim that a child was born in Hawaii. I was told that all they required was a proof of residence in Hawaii (e.g. a driver’s license [We know from interviews with her friends on Mercer Island in Washington State that Ann Dunham had acquired a driver’s license by the summer of 1961 at the age of 17] or telephone bill) and pre-natal (statement or report that a woman was pregnant) and post-natal (statement or report that a new-born baby has been examined) certification by a physician. On further enquiry, the employee that I spoke to informed me that the pre-natal and post-natal certifications had probably not been in force in the ‘60s. Even if they had been, there is and was no requirement for a physician or midwife to witness, state or report that the baby was born in Hawaii.

BC3. In 1961, if a person was born in Hawaii but not attended by a physician or midwife, then, up to the first birthday of the child, a “Delayed Certificate” could be filed, which required that “a summary statement of the evidence submitted in support of the acceptance for delayed filing or the alteration [of a file] shall be endorsed on the certificates”, which “evidence shall be kept in a special permanent file.” The statute provided that “the probative value of a ‘delayed’ or ‘altered’ certificate shall be determined by the judicial or administrative body or official before whom the certificate is offered as evidence.” (See Section 57- 9, 18, 19 & 20 of the Territorial Public Health Statistics Act in the 1955 Revised Laws of Hawaii which was in effect in 1961).”

[In other words, this form of vault birth certificate, the Delayed Certificate, required no more than a statement before a government bureaucrat by one of the parents or (the law does not seem to me clear on this) one of Barack Obama’s grandparents. If the latter is true, Ann Dunham did not have to be present for this statement or even in the country.]

BC4. If a child is born in Hawaii, for whom no physician or mid wife filed a certificate of live birth, and for whom no Delayed Certificate was filed before the first birthday, then a Certificate of Hawaiian Birth could be issued upon testimony of an adult (including the subject person [i.e. the birth child as an adult]) if the Office of the Lieutenant Governor was satisfied that a person was born in Hawaii, provided that the person had attained the age of one year. (See Section 57-40 of the Territorial Public Health Statistics Act in the 1955 Revised Laws of Hawaii which was in effect in 1961.) In 1955 the “secretary of the Territory” was in charge of this procedure. In 1960 it was transferred to the Office of the Lieutenant Governor (“the lieutenant governor, or his secretary, or such other person as he may designate or appoint from his office” §338-41 [in 1961]).

In 1982, the vital records law was amended to create a fifth kind of “original birth certificate”. Under Act 182 H.B. NO. 3016-82, “Upon application of an adult or the legal parents of a minor child, the director of health shall issue a birth certificate for such adult or minor, provided that the proof has been submitted to the director of health that the legal parents of such individual while living without the Territory or State of Hawaii had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth or adoption of such child.” In this way “state policies and procedures” accommodate even “children born out of State” (this is the actual language of Act 182) with an “original birth certificate on record.” So it is even possible that the birth certificate referred to by Dr Fukino is of the kind specified in Act 182. This possibility cannot be dismissed because such a certificate certainly satisfies Dr Fukino’s statement that “I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.” If this is the case, Dr Fukino would have perpetrated so unusually disgusting a deception that I find it practically incredible (and I greatly doubt that anyone could be that shameless). On the other hand, if the original birth certificate is of types 2, 3, or 4, Dr Fukino’s statement would be only somewhat less deceptive and verbally tricky. I only bring up this possibility to show how cleverly hedged and “lawyered” and basically worthless Dr Fukino’s statement is.

Sections 57-8, 9, 18, 19, 20 & 40 of the Territorial Public Health Statistics Act explain why Barack Obama has refused to release the original vault birth certificate. If the original certificate were the standard BC1 type of birth certificate, he would have allowed its release and brought the controversy to a quick end. But if the original certificate is of the other kinds, then Obama would have a very good reason not to release the vault birth certificate. For if he did, then the tape recording of Obama’s Kenyan grandmother asserting that she was present at his birth in Kenya becomes far more important. As does the Kenyan ambassador’s assertion that Barack Obama was born in Kenya, as well as the sealing of all government and hospital records relevant to Obama by the Kenyan government. And the fact that though there are many witnesses to Ann Dunham’s presence on Oahu from Sept 1960 to Feb 1961, there are no witnesses to her being on Oahu from March 1961 to August 1962 when she returned from Seattle and the University of Washington. No Hawaiian physicians, nurses, or midwives have come forward with any recollection of Barack Obama’s birth.

The fact that Obama refuses to release the vault birth certificate that would instantly clear up this matter almost certainly indicates that the vault birth certificate is probably a BC2 or possibly a BC3.

It is almost certainly a BC 3 or even a BC 4 if the “Certification of Live Birth” posted on the Daily Kos blog and the fightthesmears.com website by the Obama campaign is a forgery. Ron Polarik has made what several experts claim to be a cogent case that it is a forgery. There have been a couple of attempts to refute his argument and Polarik has replied to the most extensive of them. I do not claim expertise in this area, but I think it would be best for journalists and politicians to familiarize themselves with the arguments on both sides before they casually dismiss Polarik’s position without taking the trouble to understand it.

Here are 2 of Polarik’s websites: http://bogusbirthcertificate.blogspot.com/

mynameis

30-07-2009, 12:50 AM

I'd recommend reading the whole article here though: http://www.westernjournalism.com/?page_id=2697

And again we know his birth certificate is valid according to Health Director Dr. Chiyome Fukino. What is unreasonable about this to you?

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/images/2008/07/23/closeup.jpg
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/images/2008/07/23/pageview.jpg

Yes. He must have time traveled and told his parents he would be president and planted this ad in the Honolulu Sunday Advertiser.

flip side

30-07-2009, 01:09 AM

And again we know his birth certificate is valid according to Health Director Dr. Chiyome Fukino. What is unreasonable about this to you?

Did you read what I just posted? Could it be possible that Dr. Fukino is being selective with the truth? Do you believe something when someone you dont know says it, or do you prefer seeing the evidence? Do you believe 9/11 was perpetrated by Muslims directed from an Arab man in a cave because George Bush told you so?

I actually cant really be arsed to go round in circles with you. You clearly dont want to look at the full picture. I understand that a certificate of live birth exists, but for it's full implications to be known it must be backed up by the original birth cert in Obama's vault. What do you not get about it? Your one line response shows you're not interested in proper discussion. I'm not saying Obama is NOT a US natural born citizen, the only way for this can be confirmed is by disclosure from the man himself. Him not wanting to do so raises a red flag for me.

rosix

30-07-2009, 01:14 AM

I wouldn't call these Americans mainstream at all. They supported Bush, no doubt. The worst thing to happen to our country in a long time.

people like you are just premium examples of how we are just fucked - the NWO or whatever you wanna call it is going to come into place and rape the world with no considerable resistance. You are someone who definitely considers themselves intelligent, calculated, capable of objective analysis and so on - and unfortunately viewed as such by like 80% of the population. 'Race' or rather 'Obama' being 'black' was first brought into this thread by you as if it has any bearing to anything WHATSOEVER. Notice recently when Obama gave some speech on healthcare that the last answer he gave to the last question was totally unrelated and was a 'race'-issue! The next day we have no mainstream coverage of the healthcare but tonnes of coverage on the 'race'-issue which for me was so disgustingly and transparently choreographed. The fact that 'black-pride' or 'white-pride' exists is a MASSIVE hindrance to our well-being as a species - sure be proud of things you're passionate about, I'm not saying we should forgo all individuality.

flip side

30-07-2009, 01:14 AM

And a newspaper isn't a legal document I'm afraid...I cant even make out where it's supposed to be written on the page either.

rosix

30-07-2009, 01:15 AM

mynameis

30-07-2009, 01:21 AM

Did you read what I just posted? Could it be possible that Dr. Fukino is being selective with the truth? Do you believe something when someone you dont know says it, or do you prefer seeing the evidence? Do you believe 9/11 was perpertrated by Muslims directed from an Arab man in a cave because George Bush told you so?

And a newspaper isn't a legal document I'm afraid...I cant even make out where it's supposed to be written on the page either.

According to Fukino, who oversees the law of her State, I do. No. I don't see her as being selective with the truth. No I don't believe everything I hear and see, but that does not discredit the birth announcement. No the birth announcement isn't a legal document, however they are used in matters of ancestral records, such as births and deaths. I'm certain the court agrees in some extent with this about births, but not always a person's death. Actually, if attacks were directed from Osama in a cave Obama has more important things to worry about than people clamoring to see something they don't have the privileges of divulging to the general public according to privacy rights. I guard my privacy as should anyone else. Even if he, as a public servant from Hawaii no less, privacy keeps records in privileged hands and eyes only. If you respected Democracy as you say you do, Fukino's word on the matter would be enough with regard to State's rights and individual privacy laws.

mynameis

30-07-2009, 01:31 AM

mynameis,
I'll be honest, from the first half a dozen posts of yours I noticed on these forums I thought you were honestly posting controversial things just for kicks. I can in some way see how promoting mainstream opinions and ideals in one of the only places in the world where those mainstream things are in the minority could be fun :)

Socrates, not to be confused with the Socrates who posts here, he asked questions to his friends and confidants. If the question is a legal matter, which has already been decided upon by the Supreme Court, Mrs. Fukino, the registar of live births in Hawaii, where is the problem? According to many, these individuals are highly educated and are not capable of doing their jobs. It wouldn't be the first time, but this is not brain surgery. If the document exists and it is the form and has been examined by many, then this controversy is no controversy, it is whining. I try to keep on both sides with an open mind. If there were real proof of guilt beyond assumptions then there's more fact than fiction. I see nothing but fiction being peddled as truth so far in the O arguments of non-natural born citizen. I don't care either way. I could care even less if he's president, but disinformation is disinformation. If some greater proof existed that is testable and valid then I could see there being a problem, but as of today, I see none that exists with this beyond whining.

flip side

30-07-2009, 01:43 AM

According to Fukino, who oversees the law of her State, I do. No. I don't see her as being selective with the truth. No I don't believe everything I hear and see, but that does not discredit the birth announcement. No the birth announcement isn't a legal document, however they are used in matters of ancestral records, such as births and deaths. I'm certain the court agrees in some extent with this about births, but not always a person's death. Actually, if attacks were directed from Osama in a cave Obama has more important things to worry about than people clamoring to see something they don't have the privileges of divulging to the general public according to privacy rights. I guard my privacy as should anyone else. Even if he, as a public servant from Hawaii no less, privacy keeps records in privileged hands and eyes only. If you respected Democracy as you say you do, Fukino's word on the matter would be enough with regard to State's rights and individual privacy laws.

Ok then we'll have to beg to differ. You dont want to see ultimate proof, I do. And dont bother with trying to imply I dont have respect for Democracy and privacy. I think that as a President who represents the people, he should do what ever necessary to uphold the people's confidence in him.

On your point about privacy, when you apply for a bank account in the UK they ask for a driving licence or passport. Now some might say that's an invasion of privacy but the system requires it. If you refuse claiming 'privacy' your application form is politely rejected. Now take that principal and expand it to the scale of US President, do you not think it reasonable that you demand to see the original birth certificate in his possession so that you can determine if he qualifies as US President?

Also lol @ 'if attacks were directed from Osama in a cave Obama has more important things to worry about' You've come far in your 4000+ posts :rolleyes:

mynameis

30-07-2009, 01:57 AM

Ok then we'll have to beg to differ. You dont want to see ultimate proof, I do. And dont bother with trying to imply I dont have respect for Democracy and privacy. I think that as a President who represents the people, he should do what ever necessary to uphold the people's confidence in him.:rolleyes:

If, from a rhetorical assumption, is his withholding his privicy is "what ever necessary to uphold the people's confidence in him," what do you say? Perhaps the larger question or assertion is one of State's rights principles and greater government exercise in ethics reform. This would be something that other predecessors lacked or viewed as a necessary evil for a righteous government.

flip side

30-07-2009, 02:07 AM

If, from a rhetorical assumption, is his withholding his privicy is "what ever necessary to uphold the people's confidence in him," what do you say? Perhaps the larger question or assertion is one of State's rights principles and greater government exercise in ethics reform. This would be something that other predecessors lacked or viewed as a necessary evil for a righteous government.

If it wasn't for your muddled up English I would probably comment back, but that didn't make a great deal of sense mate.

mynameis

30-07-2009, 02:09 AM

If it wasn't for your muddled up English I would probably comment back, but that didn't make a great deal of sense mate.

Perhaps he's exercising his right to educate people about ethics in government and the respect for breech of protocol in the law? He earned a law degree after all.

waiting41

30-07-2009, 02:16 AM

I don't have an original copy of my birth certificate, but if I pay ten dollars at the town clerk where I was born, I can get another copy. And that document is legitimate. Not having the original document doesn't make the copy a forgery or something to be scrutinized as phony. It is madness that this is even an issue anymore.

flip side

30-07-2009, 02:18 AM

Perhaps he's exercising his right to educate people about ethics in government and the respect for breech of protocol in the law? He earned a law degree after all.

Ethics? Obama? Now I know you're pulling my leg pal!

Dont get me started on Obama's advisors and the people that surround him. Ethics?! Henry Kissinger? Zbigniew Brzezinski? John Holdren? Timothy Geithner?

International torture renditions?
Refusing to prosecute top official complicit in torture?
Refusing to release torture photo's?
Throwing trillions of tax payers dollars to his pals in Wall Street?

Ethics my arse. Please mate, you expose yourself with comments like that.

flip side

30-07-2009, 02:19 AM

rosix

30-07-2009, 02:23 AM

mynameis

30-07-2009, 02:27 AM

Ethics? Obama? Now I know you're pulling my leg pal!

Dont get me started on Obama's advisors and the people that surround him. Ethics?! Henry Kissinger? Zbigniew Brzezinski? John Holdren? Timothy Geithner?

International torture renditions?
Refusing to prosecute top official complicit in torture?
Refusing to release torture photo's?
Throwing trillions of tax payers dollars to his pals in Wall Street?

Ethics my arse. Please mate, you expose yourself with comments like that.

If you look two posts up notice the words "rhetorical assumption." :) Who he has appointed is a different matter in policy. Most of those he appointed were to appease those in his political party. Bresinski's son and not Brezezinksi is one of his. I am not certain about Kissinger being his valued associate. If Bresezinki's son speaks with his father regularly that could affect the decisions made at the table of discussion. Holdren is a non vetted quack. Tim Geithner is a CYA man for the FED. If Geithner was not appointed and no other solution was given, there would be a possibility of China pooling all their liquid cash into Euros. This is the event that most were threatened with. I think that Geithner and some of the other financial oligarchs paid for access to get this appointment, but were awestruck that Hillary failed to get nominated and fell on their swords and only asked for Geithner to keep the United States afloat. My guess is that they assumed Hillary would be the forerunner, which didn't materialize. Ethics reform is part of what should be happening, but you can't build a house without laying the first brick down, can you?

flip side

30-07-2009, 02:31 AM

yea on this topic it's funny that even brainwashed sheeple can see how evil people like Kissinger and Brzezinski are, having recently discussed them with said sheeple :)

Quite Rosix. It's amazing how some people are still blinkered to the guy. He's in bed and very cosy with the people that have destroyed America from within. As an American citizen mynameis & waiting41 do you feel happy that Obama has given immunity to big pharma should you or your family get ill from the mandatory vaccinations that are proposed? And does it make you happy that Obama bought $50,000 worth of shares in Baxter, the very company that he granted immunity to?

mynameis

30-07-2009, 02:34 AM

Quite Rosix. It's amazing how some people are still blinkered to the guy still. He is in bed and very cosy with the people that have destroyed America from inside. As an American citizen mynameis & waiting41 do you feel happy that Obama has given immunity to big pharma should you or your family get ill from the mandatory vaccinations that are proposed? And does it make you happy that Obama bought $50,000 worth of shares in Baxter, the very company that he granted immunity to?

Vaccinations are not mandatory in the United States. Immunity was given. This decision does not mean that a lawsuit will not be contested in the vaccine courts, where pay outs are given, if vaccines are the cause adverse reactions. If O bought shares in a company then that is up to the USAG to invesigate or the FCC I should think.

flip side

30-07-2009, 02:35 AM

but you can't build a house without laying the first brick down, can you?

Shame the first brick was made out of sand.

mynameis

30-07-2009, 02:38 AM

Shame the first brick was made out of sand.

It's a fine line between sand and rock setting.

flip side

30-07-2009, 02:41 AM

Vaccinations are not mandatory in the United States. Immunity was given. This decision does not mean that a lawsuit will not be contested in the vaccine courts, where pay outs are given, if vaccines are the cause adverse reactions. If O bought shares in a company then that is up to the USAG to invesigate or the FCC I should think.

The mandatory vaccine question is open to debate still seeing as the WHO & UN have powers to take over the US in a state of pandemic emergency. There is evidence that would suggest they could enforce the vaccine should they determine the environment 'right'

Vaccine courts, that's a new one to me. I'm under impression Big Pharma are untouchable in the case of adverse reactions.

flip side

30-07-2009, 02:41 AM

It's a fine line between sand and rock setting.

I like the fact you have an answer for everything :D

waiting41

30-07-2009, 02:44 AM

Quite Rosix. It's amazing how some people are still blinkered to the guy still. He is in bed and very cosy with the people that have destroyed America from inside. As an American citizen mynameis & waiting41 do you feel happy that Obama has given immunity to big pharma should you or your family get ill from the mandatory vaccinations that are proposed? And does it make you happy that Obama bought $50,000 worth of shares in Baxter, the very company that he granted immunity to?

Yes, I am bothered by that if that is the case. My daughter is not vaccinated. And I would not want her to have the flu vaccine either. Those are issues that are actually debatable on their merits, but this birth certificate rubbish is just that, rubbish.

mynameis

30-07-2009, 02:44 AM

I like the fact you have an answer for everything :D

I ask a lot of questions. If I get no answers, I go on fact finding missions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccine_court

flip side

30-07-2009, 02:49 AM

I ask a lot of questions. If I get no answers, I go on fact finding missions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccine_court

Interesting although:

These claims against vaccine manufacturers cannot normally be filed in state or federal civil courts, but instead must be heard in the Court of Claims, sitting without a jury

If the manufacturers have immunity then does that mean immunity from the vaccine courts? Probably.

Anyway getting off topic.

deem

30-07-2009, 03:50 AM

On June 3rd 1979, the Cia gave birth to Islamic fundermentalism when president Carter signed a directive for US intelligence to provide radical Islamic thinking and arms to Afghan fighters prior to the Soviete Union invasion. Carters national security advisor was Zhignien Brezinski. Brezinski was the man who funded and trained the Afghanistan freedom fighters in the late 70s, the Mujahideen and later the Taliban and Alqaeda. During Obamas election campagne, Brizinskis son Mark was advisor to Obama, his son Ian was foriegn advisor to McCains campagne. His daughter, an Obama supporter, reported for MSNBC television. Brizinski is an adviser to pres' Obama. Obamas campagne was funded by Goldman Sachs, UBS, Citygroup, Credit Suisse, Deutshe Bank, J P Morgan Chase, Morgan Stanley the list goes on and on, they spent Billions getting him into the White House.

waiting41

30-07-2009, 04:42 AM

They spend millions no matter who it is. They are going to be be benefitting no matter who is the president, republican or democrat.

the nine

30-07-2009, 05:26 AM

I like it when women speak out like that because, somehow, you can't just ignore them. We need more women like that.

agreed..more women :)

tjohn

30-07-2009, 06:37 AM

I didn't see this posted but forgive me if it already was. This happened a few days ago in the U.S. when a group of citizens at a town meeting confronted Congressman Mike Castle about Obama's lack of a birth certificate. People are angry about his policies and its all starting to turn against him. He could potentially be kicked out for fraud.

here's the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwgzYkTDsmQ
If it doesn't work, go to Youtube and type in Congressman Mike Castle's Town Hall erupts over Obama's birth certificate.Obama could be a "Freeman" - or perhaps, he's an alien or even an ET posing as a US citizen.

wakeuptime

30-07-2009, 12:35 PM

So wonderful to witness this. Made my blood rush and heart beat a bit faster watching this.

I reacted the same way. If we all take steps like this, express ourselves to politicians and the entire system against the lies and tyranny, just stand up peacefully against it, we'll be a wave that can't be stopped.

kanz

30-07-2009, 03:16 PM

Good video. I'm pleased to see that people are no longer going along with business as usual. This is what happens when we get complacent and let others do things for us, snakes slip in through the gates. While I find this a good thing, I hope the good people of the western world can keep their cool. A violent revolution is the last thing we need.

As a side note: I seem to recall reading something before where it was claimed that his first name was actually Barry. I don't know how true that is, but it wouldn't surprise me.

Im going to have to disagree , the only way anything is going to change is by force. These people in power are not just gonna role over and say "ok you got us" and thats gonna be it. They will fight tooth and nail to keep there power. We will have to do the same to reclaim our freedom. We can't fight these sort of people by just sitting about talking.

Not that im advocateing violence or anything like that .

wakeuptime

02-08-2009, 01:08 PM

Im going to have to disagree , the only way anything is going to change is by force. These people in power are not just gonna role over and say "ok you got us" and thats gonna be it. They will fight tooth and nail to keep there power. We will have to do the same to reclaim our freedom. We can't fight these sort of people by just sitting about talking.

Not that im advocateing violence or anything like that .

Information and an understanding of who we really are is much more powerful than violence or fighting tooth and nail as you put it. When we understand the scam, they lose their power.

If all of us would attend a town hall meeting per week and state our case as eloquently as this woman did, it would reduce their stranglehold on power, step by small empowering step.

We have the real power; they only appear to have it.