Old small government Documentary

[chris]

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=6813529239937418232

[hagbard_celine]

I often wonder exactly why we need the nation state at all. It's a political structure that really only exists because of the problems in the world today. The nation state is a good way or responding to ecomonic disasters, military threats, imposing laws to alleviate poverty etc. Do away with the current ecomony, war and poverty then we'd start wondering why we need these expensive and inefficient bureaucrats in Westminster and Washington.

Why can't we have a system where each city, town or even small village rules itself? We could have local govts, independant barter economies with our own currencies and all industry run by workers' cooperatives, companies where every worker is also an equal shareholder.

[william_mac]

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=6813529239937418232

That's really cool!



-William
www.William-Mac.com

[hagbard_celine]

I've looked into setting up a Hospital porters' cooperative and we're going to apply for the contract at my hospital if it goes out to tender again.

[chris]

I often wonder exactly why we need the nation state at all. It's a political structure that really only exists because of the problems in the world today. The nation state is a good way or responding to ecomonic disasters, military threats, imposing laws to alleviate poverty etc. Do away with the current ecomony, war and poverty then we'd start wondering why we need these expensive and inefficient bureaucrats in Westminster and Washington.

Why can't we have a system where each city, town or even small village rules itself? We could have local govts, independant barter economies with our own currencies and all industry run by workers' cooperatives, companies where every worker is also an equal shareholder.

Exactly, if only...I wish we had a system like that. Thanks to the AK there is no chance we will get taken over.

[chris]

I've looked into setting up a Hospital porters' cooperative and we're going to apply for the contract at my hospital if it goes out to tender again.

That is gibberish to me...

I remember you saying you were a porter...Do you whisk people to and from departments? I would like that job.

[hagbard_celine]

That is gibberish to me...

I remember you saying you were a porter...Do you whisk people to and from departments? I would like that job.


Here you go: http://www.nhscareers.nhs.uk/details/Default.aspx?Id=149

What I meant was that I've got a business plan for a workers' cooperative that will provide the portering service at my hospital. A few years ago it was very fashionable to contract out NHS services to private contractors. These were often lousy cheap firms that paid us shit and did a crap job. We were renationalized after the MRSA scandal (a disaster we predicted!) and hopefully we'll remain so. However if the management ever try to contract us out again, and I never underestimate the stupidity of a bureaucracy, I'm determinded not to let it go downhill again. We're going to apply for the contract wwith our own workers' cooperative. If I can get all my colleagues on board.

[Anders Lindman]

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=6813529239937418232

I'm not sure that a minimum wage level is a bad thing. If a company cannot pay such minimum wage, then they should not be in business! Going below a minimum wage level would be a slave wage. What kind of job would deserve a slave wage?

[raffles]

What I meant was that I've got a business plan for a workers' cooperative that will provide the portering service at my hospital. A few years ago it was very fashionable to contract out NHS services to private contractors. These were often lousy cheap firms that paid us shit and did a crap job. We were renationalized after the MRSA scandal (a disaster we predicted!) and hopefully we'll remain so. However if the management ever try to contract us out again, and I never underestimate the stupidity of a bureaucracy, I'm determinded not to let it go downhill again. We're going to apply for the contract wwith our own workers' cooperative. If I can get all my colleagues on board.

Sounds like a fantastic idea, hope it all goes well, if it comes to that !!

[chris]

Here you go: http://www.nhscareers.nhs.uk/details/Default.aspx?Id=149

What I meant was that I've got a business plan for a workers' cooperative that will provide the portering service at my hospital. A few years ago it was very fashionable to contract out NHS services to private contractors. These were often lousy cheap firms that paid us shit and did a crap job. We were renationalized after the MRSA scandal (a disaster we predicted!) and hopefully we'll remain so. However if the management ever try to contract us out again, and I never underestimate the stupidity of a bureaucracy, I'm determinded not to let it go downhill again. We're going to apply for the contract wwith our own workers' cooperative. If I can get all my colleagues on board.

This may be a really stupid question but does that mean porting is privatised?

[chris]

I'm not sure that a minimum wage level is a bad thing. If a company cannot pay such minimum wage, then they should not be in business! Going below a minimum wage level would be a slave wage. What kind of job would deserve a slave wage?

Well now if they took away minimum wage we'd be fucked but back then was a different story.

If you have freemarkets from the start then you would simply get what you earn, nothing more or less but as time goes on the system will create and not take away so real wealth will accumulate.

The things you sell might be very cheap for it's quality but also everything else you will buy will also be cheap and high quality (in a vibrant market).

Also that wealth will pass on fully to your children and they will add to it and pass that on, sooner or later there will be an overflow and so you could either try to rule other people or help them. If everyone protected their freedom then it would be pointless to have more wealth than you need so the only thing you can really do with it is to use it for charity.

[hagbard_celine]

This may be a really stupid question but does that mean porting is privatised?

Yes it does. This may seem to contradict what I said earlier about applauding our renationalization. But it doesn't really. I'm not opposed to private companies at all, in fact I'm a libertarian capitalist! I'm against the kind of prevailing global corporate feudalism that has been wrongly called "capitalism".

State nationalization is the better alternative to corporate feudalist contractors, but ideally I'd like to see healthcare being provided by workers' cooperatives. I'd like to all industry and services go this way.

Workers' cooperatives are more efficient and productive. They provide a happy working envionment where the workers feel empowered and secure; they are happier and healthier. It encourages creativity rather than making people feel like their just a cog in a machine. Work for most people is a frustrating and humiliating part of life. It doesn't have to be; let's change it!