police in madrid

[lightworks]

[B]are daily harassing the african immigrants to show thier ID even thouhg the policia national know that the africnas are not given any documentation to work or have any rights when they come to spain......this is a daily occurrence sometimes happening twice or three times a day...the first thing is that a helicoppter flies over all the areas where the africanc hang out...then it always follows that the policia national turn up....rudely and aggressively talking and harassing.....i obsevered them the day before yesterday take two african guys for not having papers....to a police station....this smacks of nazi germany...and what needs to made clear here is that it is exactly the same police day in day out asking exactly the same groups of african immigrants for exactly the same documents which the policia national know full well that they do not have... this is fucking racist bollocks...because there are alot of morrocans and bangaldeshi pakistanis in the area of lavapies ...some of whom may or may not have papers to live or work here...bit the point is that the africans are being routinely targeted and harassed and initmidated....this is very wrong.....now why david icke says dont fight with the police.....does anyone have any better answers with what seems to be a worlwide problem of new world order thugs ...harassing beating intimidating and killing the innocent and the harmless?

[skunksmash]

let it play out........;) the more they tighten their grip, the more ppl will slip from their grasp.

i was looking to go on an all out war against TPTB until i realized they're already doomed, they're Agenda will fall.... light shall prevail without us even trying to free it IMO.

so kick back & dont do a thing....



:)SK

[elixirsoo]

...TPTB are no longer in full control and the violence, like a barking dog's, is a sign of their fear.

People are waking up at a much faster rate than they calculated for. The police violence is counter-productive, as it advances our cause, while making them more visible.

[decim]

Viva E'spania

[wake_up_bomb]

The absolute last thing to resort to is violence, as the establishment will always come back with more violence, and legitimise their violence while demonising yours. Leaving aside the moral argument.

[mrindigo]

I agree with these posts regarding non violence. If they aren't given fuel, they can't justify their acts of oppression. Look at what's been going on in China. They reacted and fought the police and establishment. The result was them killing each other and destroying the property they paid for through taxes. The oppressive controlling powers weren't phased by that. None of what was destroyed came out of their wallets, and allowed them to justify further dictatorship of Chinese life.

[thewayitis]

The Spanish goverment...

When they needed "cheap" immigrants to build all these residential areas and apartments and shopping malls that now are empty, they didn't care about the number of immigrants. They say "we need more immigrants, to work and to pay the pensions!"
A lot of undeclared income and immigrants working without legal papers, that was the situation in the 90's until the crisis. Immigrants that received ridiculous salaries for every day of work.

Now what? polititians and enterprises have ruined the landscape building more than they needed. They have brought a lot of immigrants that now are without jobs.

Do you know how many empty apartments are there in Spain? Almost 3 million! Nobody buys! They weren't necessary!

20% of unemployement! this is Spain. 30% of unemployment on the south of Spain.

And now polititians realised that they don't want immigrants. The party is over, so go home! Bunch of hypocrites and thieves, these are the Spanish polititians

[lightworks]

The Spanish goverment...

When they needed "cheap" immigrants to build all these residential areas and apartments and shopping malls that now are empty, they didn't care about the number of immigrants. They say "we need more immigrants, to work and to pay the pensions!"
A lot of undeclared income and immigrants working without legal papers, that was the situation in the 90's until the crisis. Immigrants that received ridiculous salaries for every day of work.

Now what? polititians and enterprises have ruined the landscape building more than they needed. They have brought a lot of immigrants that now are without jobs.

Do you know how many empty apartments are there in Spain? Almost 3 million! Nobody buys! They weren't necessary!

20% of unemployement! this is Spain. 30% of unemployment on the south of Spain.

And now polititians realised that they don't want immigrants. The party is over, so go home! Bunch of hypocrites and thieves, these are the Spanish polititians

so that is what the underlying reason for this racism is...fear..fear of losing what little you have figuratively speaking to the blacks...who having got a chance in high hell of getting waht little you have....

[lightworks]

its funny because lately i really shouted at a bunch of policia national harassing blacks...and for the past three days they have stopped...harassing the africans....i am suspicous..because there is always a lull before a storm

[decim]

Immigration is good.

The government says so.

[flyermay]

[B]are daily harassing the african immigrants to show thier ID even thouhg the policia national know that the africnas are not given any documentation to work or have any rights when they come to spain......this is a daily occurrence sometimes happening twice or three times a day...the first thing is that a helicoppter flies over all the areas where the africanc hang out...then it always follows that the policia national turn up....rudely and aggressively talking and harassing.....i obsevered them the day before yesterday take two african guys for not having papers....to a police station....this smacks of nazi germany...and what needs to made clear here is that it is exactly the same police day in day out asking exactly the same groups of african immigrants for exactly the same documents which the policia national know full well that they do not have... this is fucking racist bollocks...because there are alot of morrocans and bangaldeshi pakistanis in the area of lavapies ...some of whom may or may not have papers to live or work here...bit the point is that the africans are being routinely targeted and harassed and initmidated....this is very wrong.....now why david icke says dont fight with the police.....does anyone have any better answers with what seems to be a worlwide problem of new world order thugs ...harassing beating intimidating and killing the innocent and the harmless?

The racism of the Spaniards is rather peculiar, no one would ever admit being racist, but they actually believe there are two types of black people: the ones that come from the south (Africa), whom they think are inferior to them, and the ones that come from the north (UK & US), whom they think are superior to them.

About the police in Spain, you have to take into account that many of them served under Franco's regime (most of them high ranks now); and many still wait for his return.

[erdo]

he racism of the Spaniards is rather peculiar, no one would ever admit being racist, but they actually believe there are two types of black people: the ones that come from the south (Africa), whom they think are inferior to them, and the ones that come from the north (UK & US), whom they think are superior to them.

About the police in Spain, you have to take into account that many of them served under Franco's regime (most of them high ranks now); and many still wait for his return.

Racism in Spain is the same as everywhere, i would say less than other contries because we have lived and mixed with several races in our history , specially in the south. Even other european people say that here on tv and radio.

If you are spaniard i think you are talking nonsense, nobody here is waiting for Franco, in which Spain do you live or have lived??, here gays can get married, people is not so close-minded.

And now don't start talking about the spanish inquisition.

It is not so difficult for the elite to make people to riot, they just need put enough pressaure through unemployment, poverty or streets violence..., although i think stay calm is for sure the best for us, it will not be easy.

I don't want to make an off-topic, but i haven't read here in this forum nothing about the 100.000 cases of avian flue in Argentina, which i found rare.

And another thing ,this year the weather in Madrid is not very hot, until now the temperatures haven't reach 38, 39 or 40 degrees , as usual.

Hello to everybody , my first post.

[guuna]

Racism in Spain is the same as everywhere, i would say less than other contries because we have lived and mixed with several races in our history , specially in the south. Even other european people say that here on tv and radio.

If you are spaniard i think you are talking nonsense, nobody here is waiting for Franco, in which Spain do you live or have lived??, here gays can get married, people is not so close-minded.

And now don't start talking about the spanish inquisition.

It is not so difficult for the elite to make people to riot, they just need put enough pressaure through unemployment, poverty or streets violence..., although i think stay calm is for sure the best for us, it will not be easy.

I don't want to make an off-topic, but i haven't read here in this forum nothing about the 100.000 cases of avian flue in Argentina, which i found rare.

And another thing ,this year the weather in Madrid is not very hot, until now the temperatures haven't reach 38, 39 or 40 degrees , as usual.

Hello to everybody , my first post.

Bienvenido

[flyermay]

Thanks for signing in, and Bienvenido!

Racism in Spain is the same as everywhere, i would say less than other contries because we have lived and mixed with several races in our history , specially in the south. Even other european people say that here on tv and radio.

It is true that during the Islamic rule of Andalucia it was the only time in history when Muslims, Christians and Jews lived in complete peace and harmony. Unfortunately, that was many centuries ago, and even though Spain was a beacon for freedom during the republic, almost 40 years of fascism put them at the end of the list in this respect with regards to their European counterparts.

But since you mentioned TV and radio, let me put you an example using the media: apart from Francine Galvez, how many other black people work in TVE (their national TV)?

Then we have the case of the gypsies in Spain, who even though have been citizens with full rights for centuries are rarely employed by any Spanish businessman. The same happens with Africans, Moroccans and South-Americans, who are condemned to street sales, illegal activities and filling any jobs that Spanish people would not take; constantly harassed by both the national and the local police.

I agree with you it’s not the type of racism that we saw in other countries, but it is a racism that excludes other races and cultures and that systematically treats them as inferiors with almost no chances of integration.

Oh, yes, this doesn’t happen if they are African-Americans, they love them in Spain. Reason why I said it was a peculiar racism that differentiates 2 types of black people.

If you are spaniard i think you are talking nonsense, nobody here is waiting for Franco, in which Spain do you live or have lived??, here gays can get married, people is not so close-minded.

I wasn’t referring to the Spanish population in general, but to those in the police and military: hard core fascists that just adopted the new democracy for fear to lose their jobs and positions.

But then, I have many Spanish friends, and none of them think that way; but that doesn’t mean many do in Spain.

[bob_jones]

I have a lot of experience of hampering police corruption and murder.

Expose it, name names, give times, dates and describe their crimes e.g

Bent PCs Bevan, Sullivan and Evans who assaulted me, kicked me in the ribs and bungled me off under no legalally recognisable form of arrest because they were bribed to do it on 26/08/06.

Llanelli Police are nationally famous for getting their piggy noses in the kickback trough.

[big_al]

You forgot the option of 'Just behave nicely'

[bob_jones]

You forgot the option of 'Just behave nicely'

So did the bloody pigs m8!!!:eek:

[bendoon]

Send the scroungers back, Europe is full up and its nothing to do with racism.

Mass imigration = genocide for Europeans.

[thewayitis]

I must say that Spaniards in general are not racist.
I will say they are rather classist. If you have money, there is no problem.
There are a lot of Spaniards that also don't get jobs because the way they look (they come from impoverish areas). But anyway, there are no jobs for anybody, and if you get one, they will try to exploit you.

During the last ten years, the hate between the Spanish regions have grown, thanks to polititians. They have made a good job bringing us into conflict. Now it is like all regions want to be independent from Spain. People from the south is considering lazy and marginal. Same on same on.
All is a big shit thanks to polititians, that's the true.

The integration in the Spanish society is easy. And it depends on the person, the way you behave. If you are a good person, then people will like you and talk to you, no matter the colour of your skin or nationality.
During the 80's and 90's there were a lot of mixed marriages. After 9-11 and Madrid bombs, people began to suspect about islam. Madrid bombs, that's the key. But straight away Spanish newspapers began to investigate, they tought there was something more behind the bombs. Spanish newspapers, not conspiracy groups!
Nowadays, people is suspicious about Chinese people, but it's just a matter of business. They open business EVERYWHERE and the small Spaniards shops need to close.

And dude, you will be surprised if you knew how much normal Spaniards suspect about Obama, the hate against Bush and all these "American wars" for the democracy.

About the police, I must say that in general, the police is full of young people with no previous connection with the dictatorship. As it happens in another countries, to be police or get into the army is a good opportunity to have a job with a decent salary (there are no jobs with a decent salary in Spain).
We use to say "polices and thieves come from the same neighborhood":D

We should suspect of who and why is giving orders to the police to act like this.

[flyermay]

I must say that Spaniards in general are not racist.
I will say they are rather classist. If you have money, there is no problem.
There are a lot of Spaniards that also don't get jobs because the way they look (they come from impoverish areas). But anyway, there are no jobs for anybody, and if you get one, they will try to exploit you.

During the last ten years, the hate between the Spanish regions have grown, thanks to polititians. They have made a good job bringing us into conflict. Now it is like all regions want to be independent from Spain. People from the south is considering lazy and marginal. Same on same on.
All is a big shit thanks to polititians, that's the true.

The integration in the Spanish society is easy. And it depends on the person, the way you behave. If you are a good person, then people will like you and talk to you, no matter the colour of your skin or nationality.
During the 80's and 90's there were a lot of mixed marriages. After 9-11 and Madrid bombs, people began to suspect about islam. Madrid bombs, that's the key. But straight away Spanish newspapers began to investigate, they tought there was something more behind the bombs. Spanish newspapers, not conspiracy groups!
Nowadays, people is suspicious about Chinese people, but it's just a matter of business. They open business EVERYWHERE and the small Spaniards shops need to close.

And dude, you will be surprised if you knew how much normal Spaniards suspect about Obama, the hate against Bush and all these "American wars" for the democracy.

About the police, I must say that in general, the police is full of young people with no previous connection with the dictatorship. As it happens in another countries, to be police or get into the army is a good opportunity to have a job with a decent salary (there are no jobs with a decent salary in Spain).
We use to say "polices and thieves come from the same neighborhood":D

We should suspect of who and why is giving orders to the police to act like this.

I'll have to agree with you. It is rather a matter of wealth than skin colour. However, Africans and South Americans are supposed, and prejudged as not wealthy enough, therefore discriminated. So, we are back in racism; though not the kind that hates other races, but the one that simply marginates them.

I also agree there must be many Spanish that hate Obama, but that's not because he is an African-American, but because he is American. I can't blame them for that!

And I also agree that there are many young people in the forces that were born after Franco's death. But you have to consider their background, and most important, whom they take orders from.

[gilly]

You forgot the option of 'Just behave nicely'

What, like you do, do you mean?

[gilly]

How come Allen982's voted for 2 different options?

[flyermay]

How come Allen982's voted for 2 different options?

It's a multiple choice poll

[gilly]

It's a multiple choice poll

Meaning there are multiple options from which to select one - as per "What is the answer" (singular).

[cheeney1]

Just Goes To show there's heaps of People here who can't think for them
selves under any circumstance :rolleyes:

Do What David Sais

http://www.thegeminicompany.com/images/crazy_harry_1.jpg


Blow Shit Up ,:rolleyes::D

[big_al]

What, like you do, do you mean?


Its a legitmate option to add - it isnt fair to not include the full range of options available on a Poll, otherwise the Poll becomes one-sided doesnt it?

Oh I forgot...the concept of fairness and equality gets lost on here sometimes. My apologies.

Dont whinge Gilly by the way - you have afterall baited me.

[flyermay]

Its a legitmate option to add - it isnt fair to not include the full range of options available on a Poll, otherwise the Poll becomes one-sided doesnt it?

Oh I forgot...the concept of fairness and equality gets lost on here sometimes. My apologies.

Dont whinge Gilly by the way - you have afterall baited me.

I agree with you on this one: a poll is worthless if it's not impartial and fairly balanced.

However, in this case, "behaving" simply doesn't apply, as these people are not being harassed for misbehaving, but for being African immigrants; condition that cannot be changed at will.

[big_al]

I agree with you on this one: a poll is worthless if it's not fairly balanced.

However, in this case, "behaving" simply doesn't apply, as these people are not being harassed for misbehaving, but for being African immigrants; condition that cannot be changed at will.

Why thank you young man.

[gilly]

I agree with you on this one: a poll is worthless if it's not impartial and fairly balanced.

However, in this case, "behaving" simply doesn't apply, as these people are not being harassed for misbehaving, but for being African immigrants; condition that cannot be changed at will.

Exactly.

"Behave yourselves - stop being African immediately!"

[thewayitis]

Exactly.

"Behave yourselves - stop being African immediately!"

Spaniards don't care about if you behave as an African, or as an Australian, or as a giraffe (that will be strange, but anyway). An immigrant can integrate easily if they follow certain non-written rules.

Spaniards don't care about if you are Protestant, Catholic, Budhist or if you pray snails cause you think they are gods. Religious parties in Spain are just an excuse to have fun.

The colour of the skin is not a problem. Of course there are idiots everywhere, and sadly, neonazi groups exist too.

It's just about being "decent"...difficult concept to explain. That means, you do not look "marginal", you are not a thief, you show education and respect, and you want to talk and be friendly with the community... in other words, you are accepted if you have a decent and honest life with your family, out off scandals, and a decent job, that's it.

If you follow these rules, you won't have a problem to integrate.

What is the problem? the economical situation, the unemployment. They want to create a situation of chaos and desperation. The goverment is not doing anything to resolve the situation of thousands of families that don't have any income.
There are a lot of families that live from the charity and eat everyday thanks to it. And immigrants are on the middle of it, a lot of immigrants without jobs.

[cpfc12]

It's hard to say, but i don't believe violence is the answer, we all are soldiers for the nwo in our own way, most people in society bully others into accepting the norm, and into a slave like state.
fighting for peace is like fvcking for virginity :D

[flyermay]

Spaniards don't care about if you behave as an African, or as an Australian, or as a giraffe (that will be strange, but anyway). An immigrant can integrate easily if they follow certain non-written rules.

Spaniards don't care about if you are Protestant, Catholic, Budhist or if you pray snails cause you think they are gods. Religious parties in Spain are just an excuse to have fun.

The colour of the skin is not a problem. Of course there are idiots everywhere, and sadly, neonazi groups exist too.

It's just about being "decent"...difficult concept to explain. That means, you do not look "marginal", you are not a thief, you show education and respect, and you want to talk and be friendly with the community... in other words, you are accepted if you have a decent and honest life with your family, out off scandals, and a decent job, that's it.

If you follow these rules, you won't have a problem to integrate.

What is the problem? the economical situation, the unemployment. They want to create a situation of chaos and desperation. The goverment is not doing anything to resolve the situation of thousands of families that don't have any income.
There are a lot of families that live from the charity and eat everyday thanks to it. And immigrants are on the middle of it, a lot of immigrants without jobs.

That sound pretty good, but looks to me that it is easier said than done.

How can you don’t look marginal when you are being marginalised?
How can you be educated and respectful to someone who is constantly harassing you?
How can you be friendly with a community that doesn’t want you around?
How can you have a decent job when no one wants to employ you?

[bendoon]

That sound pretty good, but looks to me that it is easier said than done.

How can you don’t look marginal when you are being marginalised?
How can you be educated and respectful to someone who is constantly harassing you?
How can you be friendly with a community that doesn’t want you around?
How can you have a decent job when no one wants to employ you?

Why can't they do all that in Africa ?

Why do they have to impose themselves on others ?

If Africans believe that the only way to improve their lives is sneaking over to Europe then Africa will never improve, they should be working to improve Africa for themselves and all Africans.

[thewayitis]

That sound pretty good, but looks to me that it is easier said than done.

How can you don’t look marginal when you are being marginalised?
How can you be educated and respectful to someone who is constantly harassing you?
How can you be friendly with a community that doesn’t want you around?
How can you have a decent job when no one wants to employ you?

Well, the point one is a problem, but it happens with everybody, Spaniards and immigrants. The problem is to get out from marginalization. Before immigrants arrived, there were already marginalised areas, full of Spaniards (gypsies and not gypsies), Spanish families that needed to go knocking doors to have something to eat everyday.

Community, normal people, don't harrass immigrants, that's my experience.
What police is tell to do nowadays, this is something different.
Police harrass immigrants, and what they need to do is harrass mafias. The big boys from the mafia. But this is too dangerous and there are no means, no money to support special police operations.

And the problem is that nobody wants to hire anyone right now, no matter if you are an immigrant or a citizen, even the Spaniards are migrating to another countries because there are no jobs! well, you should know in the UK or in the US, how many Spaniards have migrated those last years? a lot!

[decim]

The idiots who promote & condone mass immigration are your enemies.
It took decades for unions & workers to get better pay, hours & work conditions, all now being undermined & usurped.
An influx of illiterate, unskilled slaves is detrimental to your children's future.

The open border cheerleaders are also pro NWO.

The jacobins are at it again.

[cpfc12]

Well, the point one is a problem, but it happens with everybody, Spaniards and immigrants. The problem is to get out from marginalization. Before immigrants arrived, there were already marginalised areas, full of Spaniards (gypsies and not gypsies), Spanish families that needed to go knocking doors to have something to eat everyday.

Community, normal people, don't harrass immigrants, that's my experience.
What police is tell to do nowadays, this is something different.
Police harrass immigrants, and what they need to do is harrass mafias. The big boys from the mafia. But this is too dangerous and there are no means, no money to support special police operations.

And the problem is that nobody wants to hire anyone right now, no matter if you are an immigrant or a citizen, even the Spaniards are migrating to another countries because there are no jobs! well, you should know in the UK or in the US, how many Spaniards have migrated those last years? a lot!

WHo is saying though that the africans they are harassing are believed to be in criminal gangs, either way, why should people who are believed to be in mafias be harassed anymore than african immigrants ? how can you clarify if someone is in the mafia or not ?

[thewayitis]

WHo is saying though that the africans they are harassing are believed to be in criminal gangs, either way, why should people who are believed to be in mafias be harassed anymore than african immigrants ? how can you clarify if someone is in the mafia or not ?

Well, it's really easy to know who is in the mafia.
Just go to any neighborhood where they sell drugs and ask. Everybody knows who sells drugs or not. Everybody knows where the illegal business are. Everybody knows who is the boss. You ask and you have an adress. As easy as that.
Police know it and don't do anything. Lack of money? lack of means? who knows, it's complicated.
It's so much corruption in this country...mafias invest money in this country by buying properties, mansions, cars...good for bussiness right? everybody knows where the big boys live and what they do, but it's too dangerous.
The poor black man that sells illegal cds on a corner, he is just on the bottom of the pyramid

[flyermay]

Why can't they do all that in Africa ?

Why do they have to impose themselves on others ?


That's a complicated question that would require a full section on the forum; but to resume my opinion:

Africa was exploited (and continues to be) by European interests
Since Europeans were free to occupy any African territory for centuries, without the African’s consent, it is fair that any African would be free to move around Europe if he wishes to
There should be no immigration control for the following reasons:

All human beings are equal and should have the same rights regardless of race, age, sex, place of birth, or previous residence
Frontiers are imaginary barriers and should not be used as an excuse to restrict anyone’s right to move freely

[bendoon]

That's a complicated question that would require a full section on the forum; but to resume my opinion:

Africa was exploited (and continues to be) by European interests

Why don't they throw the Europeans out and run Africa for their own benefits ?

, it is fair that any African would be free to move around Europe if he wishes to

Why ?

I can't just go to Nigeria and complain that they won't give me a house and a job.

There should be no immigration control for the following reasons:
[list]
All human beings are equal and should have the same rights regardless of race, age, sex, place of birth, or previous residence
Frontiers are imaginary barriers and should not be used as an excuse to restrict anyone’s right to move freely


Thats your opinion, why are you so important that you have to force your opinions on the millions of Europeans who do not share your views.

And by the way thats what the Globalists want, a world without borders. Globalisation; free movement of capital and labour

[cpfc12]

Well, it's really easy to know who is in the mafia.
Just go to any neighborhood where they sell drugs and ask. Everybody knows who sells drugs or not. Everybody knows where the illegal business are. Everybody knows who is the boss. You ask and you have an adress. As easy as that.
Police know it and don't do anything. Lack of money? lack of means? who knows, it's complicated.
It's so much corruption in this country...mafias invest money in this country by buying properties, mansions, cars...good for bussiness right? everybody knows where the big boys live and what they do, but it's too dangerous.
The poor black man that sells illegal cds on a corner, he is just on the bottom of the pyramid

"any neighborhood where they sell drugs and ask. Everybody knows who sells drugs or not. Everybody knows where the illegal business are. Everybody knows who is the boss"

There is the first problem, not many people would be willing to disclose information that could result in them or their family being attacked, taking in mind many of those in the mafia would be willing to silence or keep quiet those who want to go to the police, it would never be that easy.

I agree with you however that the mafias and the ones making the real money, will be the ones who have the motors and the flash gear, but who is to say they aren't just making their money honestly, again it would be an assumption that a working class bloke with what appears to be a considerable wealth, attained it by criminal means, yet again in many cases its because these ones involved in the orgasnised crime, are members of the freemassons, so even the good cops couldn't nail them, without getting into trouble with their superiours, they can afford the good laywers.
Also remember the organised criminals who gain most of the awards, are in a win win situation, they are untouchable, as with most white collar crimes, it's nearly impossible to trace the victims, the offenders in the act, as these operations are so large.

Unfortunly the victims of organised crime are usually the poor african immigrants, at the same time unlike white collar crime, it is more visibile, so can be more targetted, again all benefits the rich, its all a pyramid structure.

[flyermay]

Why don't they throw the Europeans out and run Africa for their own benefits ?

For the same reason as everyone else in the world (including every single worker in the UK and US that works for a corporation’s interests instead of their own): because that would have severe consequences.

Why ?

I can't just go to Nigeria and complain that they won't give me a house and a job.

Well, you can; and I’m sure many would be willing to employ a European before one of their own. Though I don’t think they would give you a house for free, as well as here.

Thats your opinion, why are you so important that you have to force your opinions on the millions of Europeans who do not share your views.

So, isn’t your argument also your opinion? What makes you think that your argument is more valid than mine?

And I’m sorry, but I don’t remember having forced anything unto anyone.

[bendoon]

And I’m sorry, but I don’t remember having forced anything unto anyone.

You stated your opinion as if it were a universal law that had to be obeyed, as thought people who's ancestors have lived in Europe for thousands of years have no say in their own destiny.

All human beings are equal and should have the same rights regardless of race, age, sex, place of birth, or previous residence
Frontiers are imaginary barriers and should not be used as an excuse to restrict anyone’s right to move freely

Thats what the NWO and all their agencies say, they think its an irefutible fact too.

[flyermay]

You stated your opinion as if it were a universal law that had to be obeyed, as thought people who's ancestors have lived in Europe for thousands of years have no say in their own destiny.

Thats what the NWO and all their agencies say, they think its an irefutible fact too.

But it happens that it's irrefutable that every human being should have the same rights, privileges and obligations.

It is irrelevant if the NWO uses that argument to forward their agenda; we can't simply deny equality to all human beings just because the NWO believes in it (which they don't).

[cpfc12]

But it happens that it's irrefutable that every human being should have the same rights, privileges and obligations.

It is irrelevant if the NWO uses that argument to forward their agenda; we can't simply deny equality to all human beings just because the NWO believes in it (which they don't).

Very True
Who are we to say, who should have the rights and who shouldn't.

[bendoon]

Very True
Who are we to say, who should have the rights and who shouldn't.

But it happens that it's irrefutable that every human being should have the same rights, privileges and obligations.


But you want to take away the rights of people who do not want Africans immigrating into their country, so it is you that is saying the rights of Africans are more important than the rights of the Spanish.

When did you both become the decider ?

[flyermay]

But you want to take away the rights of people who do not want Africans immigrating into their country, so it is you that is saying the rights of Africans are more important than the rights of the Spanish.

When did you both become the decider ?

The problem is that limiting someone's freedom to walk around the earth as he wishes is not a right –all the contrary-; and much less just because of his race.

I can have a say on who comes into my house, but I have no right to say who can come into public spaces that are not my property.

The earth (the land) has no real owner, and there are no natural laws or rules that limit any human being travelling at will, other than those that humans impose by force.

We're not deciding anything, we are stating what we feel is right and fair: that every human being should have the same rights. If you think they should, you can also state why.

This is an open discussion, nobody is taking any decision for anyone. ;)

[bendoon]

The problem is that limiting someone's freedom to walk around the earth as he wishes is not a right –all the contrary-; and much less just because of his race.

I can have a say on who comes into my house, but I have no right to say who can come into public spaces that are not my property.

Well you have just contradicted yourself there, you want to be able to say who comes into your house, but other people can't have a say who comes into their country. If everyone just went wherever they wanted the world would be in far more chaos than it is already. Rightly or wrongly some people see their country as their collective property and see it as their right as to who is allowed in or not, neither you or the NWO has the right to take away other peoples rights, or to decide that an immigrant has more rights than the people who live in a particular country.

[flyermay]

Well you have just contradicted yourself there, you want to be able to say who comes into your house, but other people can't have a say who comes into their country. If everyone just went wherever they wanted the world would be in far more chaos than it is already. Rightly or wrongly some people see their country as their collective property and see it as their right as to who is allowed in or not, neither you or the NWO has the right to take away other peoples rights, or to decide that an immigrant has more rights than the people who live in a particular country.

I never said anything about anyone having more rights than others, at the contrary, my whole argument is about everyone having the same rights.

How can anyone tell someone he is not allowed to live in his country becuase of his origin, and at the same time maintain that he believes all human beings are equal?

[bendoon]

I never said anything about anyone having more rights than others, at the contrary, my whole argument is about everyone having the same rights.

How can anyone tell someone he is not allowed to live in his country becuase of his origin, and at the same time maintain that he believes all human beings are equal?

Well obviously people are not equal, no two people, cats, trees, fish are equal, there is no such thing as equality the world couldn't possibly work if there was. Thats just another destructive idea from the NWO gang.

[flyermay]

Well obviously people are not equal, no two people, cats, trees, fish are equal, there is no such thing as equality the world couldn't possibly work if there was. Thats just another destructive idea from the NWO gang.

:) You know what I meant: "equal rights", equality between races, etc...

[fratoue]

The absolute last thing to resort to is violence, as the establishment will always come back with more violence, and legitimise their violence while demonising yours. Leaving aside the moral argument.


Excellent post; I had a experience with the Madrid police that wasn't too pleasant. They seem more abrasive, aggressive then regular police folk.

[thewayitis]

Excellent post; I had a experience with the Madrid police that wasn't too pleasant. They seem more abrasive, aggressive then regular police folk.

Madrid is a dangerous city. A lot of things going on there.
Police has changed a lot. As I said, it's a good oportunity from young people to have a job and a salary. It doesn't mean that they have vocation for the job or even they like it. Every now and then we hear from cases of corruption, abuse or negligence. There are good policemen and really bad policemen, as it is in other countries.
And about the resources of the Spanish police...it's a joke, they lack DNA laboratories, enough computers, databases, etc. They make their job without resources.

[cpfc12]

Lashing out against the "establishment" won't achieve anything, all you will be attacking is soembody who is in the same position as you, you can't hurt the elite pulling the strings, you can just hurt the small people, which is what they want.

[lightworks]

Thanks for signing in, and Bienvenido!



It is true that during the Islamic rule of Andalucia it was the only time in history when Muslims, Christians and Jews lived in complete peace and harmony. Unfortunately, that was many centuries ago, and even though Spain was a beacon for freedom during the republic, almost 40 years of fascism put them at the end of the list in this respect with regards to their European counterparts.

But since you mentioned TV and radio, let me put you an example using the media: apart from Francine Galvez, how many other black people work in TVE (their national TV)?

Then we have the case of the gypsies in Spain, who even though have been citizens with full rights for centuries are rarely employed by any Spanish businessman. The same happens with Africans, Moroccans and South-Americans, who are condemned to street sales, illegal activities and filling any jobs that Spanish people would not take; constantly harassed by both the national and the local police.

I agree with you it’s not the type of racism that we saw in other countries, but it is a racism that excludes other races and cultures and that systematically treats them as inferiors with almost no chances of integration.

Oh, yes, this doesn’t happen if they are African-Americans, they love them in Spain. Reason why I said it was a peculiar racism that differentiates 2 types of black people.



I wasn’t referring to the Spanish population in general, but to those in the police and military: hard core fascists that just adopted the new democracy for fear to lose their jobs and positions.

But then, I have many Spanish friends, and none of them think that way; but that doesn’t mean many do in Spain.

its always good to talk these things through...the police here...fucking hell...do they breed them in underground labarotories?

[lightworks]

:DThat's a complicated question that would require a full section on the forum; but to resume my opinion:

Africa was exploited (and continues to be) by European interests
Since Europeans were free to occupy any African territory for centuries, without the African’s consent, it is fair that any African would be free to move around Europe if he wishes to
There should be no immigration control for the following reasons:

All human beings are equal and should have the same rights regardless of race, age, sex, place of birth, or previous residence
Frontiers are imaginary barriers and should not be used as an excuse to restrict anyone’s right to move freely



that is eaxctly right..I agree..and that is what i said to this police...on that day..in poor spanish.....el gente del mundo todos es igual....everyone in the world is the same

[lightworks]

"any neighborhood where they sell drugs and ask. Everybody knows who sells drugs or not. Everybody knows where the illegal business are. Everybody knows who is the boss"

There is the first problem, not many people would be willing to disclose information that could result in them or their family being attacked, taking in mind many of those in the mafia would be willing to silence or keep quiet those who want to go to the police, it would never be that easy.

I agree with you however that the mafias and the ones making the real money, will be the ones who have the motors and the flash gear, but who is to say they aren't just making their money honestly, again it would be an assumption that a working class bloke with what appears to be a considerable wealth, attained it by criminal means, yet again in many cases its because these ones involved in the orgasnised crime, are members of the freemassons, so even the good cops couldn't nail them, without getting into trouble with their superiours, they can afford the good laywers.
Also remember the organised criminals who gain most of the awards, are in a win win situation, they are untouchable, as with most white collar crimes, it's nearly impossible to trace the victims, the offenders in the act, as these operations are so large.

Unfortunly the victims of organised crime are usually the poor african immigrants, at the same time unlike white collar crime, it is more visibile, so can be more targetted, again all benefits the rich, its all a pyramid structure.has anyone considered that the police are just another organised criminal gang...the mafia of the ELITE...of the NWO....wouldnt we be better off ina world without this new world order bollocks anyway?

[flyermay]

:D

that is eaxctly right..I agree..and that is what i said to this police...on that day..in poor spanish.....el gente del mundo todos es igual....everyone in the world is the same

In Spain we find it really funny when foreigners misspeak Spanish :D
Unlike in other countries where they take you as a cunt :mad:

I would have paid for watching you shouting that to the nationals :D

For the next time, try: "Toda la gente del mundo es igual". ;)

[thewayitis]

In Spain we find it really funny when foreners mispeak Spanish :D
Unlike in other countries where they take you as a cunt :mad:

I would have paid for watching you shouting that to the nationals :D

For the next time, try: "Toda la gente del mundo es igual". ;)

Muy bien dicho:)

Yes, we find really funny when foreigns misinterpret words or change the order. We think is really cute:D
The situation for a Spaniard is different when he decides to go to other country.
If while speaking the language, you commite mistakes, they look at you as if they wanted to kill you or as if you were the slowest and most idiot person of the planet.

[cpfc12]

has anyone considered that the police are just another organised criminal gang...the mafia of the ELITE...of the NWO....wouldnt we be better off ina world without this new world order bollocks anyway?

True interesting thought, as government are in their own way organised gangs, armies certainly are. But then at the same time, your ordinary person won't call the local russian mafia if there kid was missing, or if somebody stole your car.
As i am sure in an unconcious way and in some overt ways the police protect the rich, at the same time we do have 999 in this country.

[flyermay]

True interesting thought, as government are in their own way organised gangs, armies certainly are. But then at the same time, your ordinary person won't call the local russian mafia if there kid was missing, or if somebody stole your car.
As i am sure in an unconcious way and in some overt ways the police protect the rich, at the same time we do have 999 in this country.

I can't recall ever calling the police for anything, nor anyone from my family or friends.

Did they ever helped you? How?

[cpfc12]

I can't recall ever calling the police for anything, nor anyone from my family or friends.

Did they ever helped you? How?

a few years back when i was in my mid teens i was robbed on the bus by a couple of men who took my phone, and about 20 quid, got my mate to call the police, and soon after after giving a description the men were arrested.
Another time our bike shed got broken into, everything was stolen, the police managed to retrieve the bike, and recently, after writiing fuck loads of letters to the council and local police, we managed to get some patrols around our estate, to stop the local youths from taking drugs outside our windows, where we have young families, took a while but the patrols seem to deter them.

Not that i am somebody who trusts the state, but i do have some love for the poeple who work on the bottom of the government pyramid.

[cpfc12]

At the same time, i have been stopped and searched uncecesserily, mostly around football matches.
In my opinion, like alot of organisations, teaching, police etc, they will push you down and treat you with disrespect if you are different or seek to be different, as it goes against the norm, i have discovererd that in most places, not all the time but with the majority. and deviancy amplification doesn't help much either.

[lightworks]

Muy bien dicho:)

Yes, we find really funny when foreigns misinterpret words or change the order. We think is really cute:D
The situation for a Spaniard is different when he decides to go to other country.
If while speaking the language, you commite mistakes, they look at you as if they wanted to kill you or as if you were the slowest and most idiot person of the planet.
nice jokes.....great...but yesterday..I observed the policia national in the same place talking very politely...three of them......joking and discussing smoking joints....they were not aggressive as previously....and then they soon left...a few minutes...later the policia municipal turned up........in cars and mopeds......and they were very cold.....and obviously looking for somekind of trouble...because only two of them had identifying numbers on.....I noticed that the numbers that they wear can easily be romoved ...because they are fastened by velcro.....is this the new style of new world order polcing...where the police routninely harass...arrrest...as I obsevered them doing with three africans "for not having papers".-....even though they know the spanish government does not give or makes it as difficult as possible for them to have rights legal to live and work here in sapin.....for instance many indians here applying for citinzship or residency are told by the the police ..and i dont know exactly which branch of the spanish police I must refer of which there seem to be so many.....they are told "for sure you can have permission to stay and work but first of all you must get clearance from the national indian police force".....THERE IS NO NATIONAL INDIAN POLICE FORCE.... every state in india has its own state police force........as in the usa.....so these policia municipal.....were taking evryones documents.....and typing thier details...into a rather antiquated looking laptop..or pc....and anyoone who didnt have documents..."proving who they were"......were immediately ushered into a waiting police car......its not clear why...but it seems this most insidious form of harassment happens to the same people from the same police personnel ON A DAILY BASIS,,,,....
ON A DAILY BASIS sometimes twice or three times a day

so excuse me but I dont see what there is to laugh about or indeed find derive recuperate etc national spanish humour......this is simply not a laughing matter at all ...of that we can certainly be assured...once again..akin to...and smacks of mazi germany...in the uk...it happens they just put the people without correct paperwork to leaggly live and work in the UK...in immigration prisons....where they are often held for periods of time-...."until such time as your case is sorted"...and are frequently verbally and physically assaulted whilst in custody....so my point is not to make light of a very serious global problem....THE POLICE the seravnts OF THE NWO.....so lets stop laughing and joking as if we were at a sunday school picnic....because unless we gather together now and start finding answers to a very very serious worldwide infringement on civil libeerties...to say the least ....we will simply be remisicing of freedom as being a thing of the past...while we collectviely languish in mass concentration camps...or quarantine centres for "swine flu"......and already the britsih authourites are talking of stopping millions of british people from going on holiday
http://www.dailyexpress.co.uk/posts/view/114665
http://www.dailyexpress.co.uk/posts/view/114665

..."because they show signs of having the virus"...so the if you have a headcahe or fever ...do you see what deadly danger we all collectively face from this monstrosity called the new world order or not....?wake up before its too late

[thewayitis]

nice jokes.....great...but yesterday..I observed the policia national in the same place talking very politely...three of them......joking and discussing smoking joints....they were not aggressive as previously....and then they soon left...a few minutes...later the policia municipal turned up........in cars and mopeds......and they were very cold.....and obviously looking for somekind of trouble...because only two of them had identifying numbers on.....I noticed that the numbers that they wear can easily be romoved ...because they are fastened by velcro.....is this the new style of new world order polcing...where the police routninely harass...arrrest...as I obsevered them doing with three africans "for not having papers".-....even though they know the spanish government does not give or makes it as difficult as possible for them to have rights legal to live and work here in sapin.....for instance many indians here applying for citinzship or residency are told by the the police ..and i dont know exactly which branch of the spanish police I must refer of which there seem to be so many.....they are told "for sure you can have permission to stay and work but first of all you must get clearance from the national indian police force".....THERE IS NO NATIONAL INDIAN POLICE FORCE.... every state in india has its own state police force........as in the usa.....so these policia municipal.....were taking evryones documents.....and typing thier details...into a rather antiquated looking laptop..or pc....and anyoone who didnt have documents..."proving who they were"......were immediately ushered into a waiting police car......its not clear why...but it seems this most insidious form of harassment happens to the same people from the same police personnel ON A DAILY BASIS,,,,....
ON A DAILY BASIS sometimes twice or three times a day

so excuse me but I dont see what there is to laugh about or indeed find derive recuperate etc national spanish humour......this is simply not a laughing matter at all ...of that we can certainly be assured...once again..akin to...and smacks of mazi germany...in the uk...it happens they just put the people without correct paperwork to leaggly live and work in the UK...in immigration prisons....where they are often held for periods of time-...."until such time as your case is sorted"...and are frequently verbally and physically assaulted whilst in custody....so my point is not to make light of a very serious global problem....THE POLICE the seravnts OF THE NWO.....so lets stop laughing and joking as if we were at a sunday school picnic....because unless we gather together now and start finding answers to a very very serious worldwide infringement on civil libeerties...to say the least ....we will simply be remisicing of freedom as being a thing of the past...while we collectviely languish in mass concentration camps...or quarantine centres for "swine flu"......and already the britsih authourites are talking of stopping millions of british people from going on holiday
http://www.dailyexpress.co.uk/posts/view/114665
http://www.dailyexpress.co.uk/posts/view/114665

..."because they show signs of having the virus"...so the if you have a headcahe or fever ...do you see what deadly danger we all collectively face from this monstrosity called the new world order or not....?wake up before its too late

excuse me, but in any moment we have made fun of immigrants. We were remarking a situation that it's common for Spaniards, that it is to receive people from another countries and cultures with a smile or a joke, something that it's not common for us when we go to another countries (quite the opposite)
You have misinterpret all our joke. You have turned something positive in quite the opposite.

[flyermay]

excuse me, but in any moment we have made fun of immigrants. We were remarking a situation that it's common for Spaniards, that it is to receive people from another countries and cultures with a smile or a joke, something that it's not common for us when we go to another countries (quite the opposite)
You have misinterpret all our joke. You have turned something positive in quite the opposite.

As you said, they can't understand that being from another country has a sort of exotic attractiveness to us. He is probably thinking that we are mocking them all the time because we find it funny, when it's actually the opposite, as it is a reason to approach them and be friendly.

[lightworks]

excuse me, but in any moment we have made fun of immigrants. We were remarking a situation that it's common for Spaniards, that it is to receive people from another countries and cultures with a smile or a joke, something that it's not common for us when we go to another countries (quite the opposite)
You have misinterpret all our joke. You have turned something positive in quite the opposite.
not really and im not going to get into the avoidance or the diversion from what is actually being discussed here...which is that there is much too much aquiesence on one section of the humanity being abused in this way....worlwide..trauma based mind control...very ugly...unnessecary...and my point of this post is to ignore the distraction and to invite one and all....to find answers to what is not healthy in any way shape or form

[flyermay]

not really and im not going to get into the avoidance or the diversion from what is actually being discussed here...which is that there is much too much aquiesence on one section of the humanity being abused in this way....worlwide..trauma based mind control...very ugly...unnessecary...and my point of this post is to ignore the distraction and to invite one and all....to find answers to what is not healthy in any way shape or form


Well, sorry then.


But in regards to the Spanish police state, I can add that what you saw is just the tip of the iceberg. In Spain, since the end of the regime, they had examples of:

Giving police the power to enter any house without a warrant
Allowing them to put you in a cell for 72 hours without charges
Allowing them to detain you for not carrying your ID card
Common torture in police stations that would make Guantanamo look like Disneyland
Prisoners beaten to death in prisons
Government paid death squads
And on, and on


Please bear in mind that Spain was immersed in a total fascist regime just 30 years ago that lasted for nearly 40 years. And that since all lefties were killed during the civil war, almost every Spaniard descends from a fascist (including me).

As far as I know, the situation has been improving there; though not enough to compare them to Britain. But now I’m not sure if things are getting better or worst (as I’ve been abroad for many years).

[thewayitis]

Well, sorry then.


But in regards to the Spanish police state, I can add that what you saw is just the tip of the iceberg. In Spain, since the end of the regime, they had examples of:

Giving police the power to enter any house without a warrant
Allowing them to put you in a cell for 72 hours without charges
Allowing them to detain you for not carrying your ID card
Common torture in police stations that would make Guantanamo look like Disneyland
Prisoners beaten to death in prisons
Government paid death squads
And on, and on


Please bear in mind that Spain was immersed in a total fascist regime just 30 years ago that lasted for nearly 40 years. And that since all lefties were killed during the civil war, almost every Spaniard descends from a fascist (including me).

As far as I know, the situation has been improving there; though not enough to compare them to Britain. But now I’m not sure if things are getting better or worst (as I’ve been abroad for many years).

Every Spaniard descends from a fascist or a fake fascist, that is, what option could you have back on those days? so people pretended to be fascist while inside, they thought totally different.

In my opinion, the situation is different depending on where you live in Spain. If you live in a big city, like Madrid or Barcelona, the police will be more violent. If you go to a small town, the police have a close relationship with the people of the area (everybody knows each other and know what the other do)

I was living in Madrid for two years and I won't do it again. I don't like the dehumanization and violence of the big cities. Nobody knows you and nobody likes you.

What I must say is that the number of burglaries has increased, the break-in. This is related with the economical situation.

[flyermay]

Every Spaniard descends from a fascist or a fake fascist, that is, what option could you have back on those days? so people pretended to be fascist while inside, they thought totally different.

Yes, the proof is that once Franco died, almost everyone was suddenly a "democrat". But what I meant is that the previous generation were conditioned to think as fascists, and that could not be erased that easily.

[erdo]

Yes, the proof is that once Franco died, almost everyone was suddenly a "democrat". But what I meant is that the previous generation were conditioned to think as fascists, and that could not be erased that easily.

Are you both realizing that you are calling cowards and hypocrite to almost every people from Spain, my country and yours?:eek:

[flyermay]

Are you both realizing that you are calling cowards and hypocrite to almost every people from Spain, my country and yours?:eek:

It's just an hypothesis (might not be true) :)

[erdo]

It's just an hypothesis (might not be true) :)
It is not true, we were the first nation smart enough to know(and to act) that the war in Irak was a scum(i know i will get in trouble for saying this:)).
Sorry for the off-topic, but please, stop bashing a whole country,Spain, with such a poor arguments.;)

[thewayitis]

Nice, a lot of aggressiveness going on here. It's a pity. I'm talking from the point of view of a Spaniard. If this is not interesting or people say that I'm accusing a whole nation of being hypocrite (I have never said that, I said that it was a question of survival to fake that you agreed with the dictatorship), then I might as well not participate anymore.
Specially when I was a child during the dictatorship, so I remember some things.
And of course the democracy was possible because people forgot the differences between right and left, republicans or fascists.
Anyway, forget it. Cause as you said it, my arguments seem "poor".
As I said, it's a shame.