Answering Atheists: Watch in the Sand ?!

[positive terror]

Answering Atheists: Watch in the Sand ?!


Suppose you find a watch in the middle of a desert. What would you conclude? Would you think that someone dropped the watch? Or would you suppose that the watch came by itself?

Of course no sane person would say that the watch just happened to emerge from the sand. All the intricate working parts could not simply develop from the metals the lay buried in the earth. The watch must have a manufacturer.

If a watch tells accurate time? Consider the sunrise and sunset. Their timings are so strictly regulated that scientists can publish in advance the sunrise and sunset times in your daily newspapers. But who regulates the timings of sunrise and sunset?



Allah tells us in the Quran : "Behold! In the creation of the heavens and the earth; in the alternation of the Night and the Day; in the sailing of the ships through the Ocean for the profit of mankind; in the rain which Allah sends down from the skies, and the life which He gives therewith to an earth that is dead; in the beasts of all kinds that He scatters through the earth; in the change of the winds and the clouds which they trail like their slaves between the sky and the earth, (here) indeed are Signs for a people that are wise"


The message is clear, if a watch can not work without an intelligent maker, how can the sun appear to rise and set with such clockwork regularity? Could this occur by itself?

Consider also that we benefit from the sun only because it remains at a safe distance from the earth, a distance that averages 93 million miles. If it got much closer the earth would burn up. And if it got too far away the earth would turn into an icy planet making human life here impossible.

Who decided in advance that this was the right distance? Could it just happen by chance? Without the sun plants would not grow. Then animals and humans would starve. Did the sun just decide to be there for us ?!

The rays of the sun would be dangerous for us had it not been for the protective ozone layer in our atmosphere. The atmosphere around earth keeps the harmful ultraviolet rays from reaching us. Who was it that placed this shield around us?

We need to experience sunrise. We need the sun's energy and it's light to see our way during the day. But we also need sunset. We need a break from the heat, we need the cook of night and we need the lights to out so we may sleep. Who regulated this process to provide what we need?

Moreover, if we had only the sun and the protection of the atmosphere we would want something more-beauty. Our clothes provide warmth and protection, yet we design them to also look beautiful. Knowing or need for beauty, the designer of sunrise and sunset also made the view of them to be simply breathtaking.

The creator who gave us light, energy, protection and beauty deserves our thanks. Yet some people insist that he does not exist. What would they think if they found a watch in the desert? An accurate, working watch? A beautifully designed watch? Would they not conclude that there does exist a watchmaker? An intelligent watchmaker? One who appreciates beauty? Such is God who made us.

[cheeb]

idolater,stone facer.worshipper of meotorite.

[positive terror]

idolater,stone facer.worshipper of meotorite


CHEEB IS A BIG LIER AND IGNORANT

What they gonna think about you when the read this , IGNORANT:

Kaaba - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[cheeb]

sorry friend,
wikipedia,
is corrupted.

[positive terror]

sorry friend,
wikipedia,
is corrupted.

Im not you friend, and you are corrupted!!!

[oneofmany]

Answering Atheists: Watch in the Sand ?!



Suppose you find a watch in the middle of a desert. What would you conclude? Would you think that someone dropped the watch? Or would you suppose that the watch came by itself?

Of course no sane person would say that the watch just happened to emerge from the sand. All the intricate working parts could not simply develop from the metals the lay buried in the earth. The watch must have a manufacturer.

If a watch tells accurate time? Consider the sunrise and sunset. Their timings are so strictly regulated that scientists can publish in advance the sunrise and sunset times in your daily newspapers. But who regulates the timings of sunrise and sunset?



Allah tells us in the Quran : "Behold! In the creation of the heavens and the earth; in the alternation of the Night and the Day; in the sailing of the ships through the Ocean for the profit of mankind; in the rain which Allah sends down from the skies, and the life which He gives therewith to an earth that is dead; in the beasts of all kinds that He scatters through the earth; in the change of the winds and the clouds which they trail like their slaves between the sky and the earth, (here) indeed are Signs for a people that are wise"


The message is clear, if a watch can not work without an intelligent maker, how can the sun appear to rise and set with such clockwork regularity? Could this occur by itself?

Consider also that we benefit from the sun only because it remains at a safe distance from the earth, a distance that averages 93 million miles. If it got much closer the earth would burn up. And if it got too far away the earth would turn into an icy planet making human life here impossible.

Who decided in advance that this was the right distance? Could it just happen by chance? Without the sun plants would not grow. Then animals and humans would starve. Did the sun just decide to be there for us ?!

The rays of the sun would be dangerous for us had it not been for the protective ozone layer in our atmosphere. The atmosphere around earth keeps the harmful ultraviolet rays from reaching us. Who was it that placed this shield around us?

We need to experience sunrise. We need the sun's energy and it's light to see our way during the day. But we also need sunset. We need a break from the heat, we need the cook of night and we need the lights to out so we may sleep. Who regulated this process to provide what we need?

Moreover, if we had only the sun and the protection of the atmosphere we would want something more-beauty. Our clothes provide warmth and protection, yet we design them to also look beautiful. Knowing or need for beauty, the designer of sunrise and sunset also made the view of them to be simply breathtaking.

The creator who gave us light, energy, protection and beauty deserves our thanks. Yet some people insist that he does not exist. What would they think if they found a watch in the desert? An accurate, working watch? A beautifully designed watch? Would they not conclude that there does exist a watchmaker? An intelligent watchmaker? One who appreciates beauty? Such is God who made us.If this is all your argument consists of for the belief of a divine design, then I think your argument is in a bit of strife. There is a big difference between a mechanical device being made (watch) and a universe being created. What you are effectively saying is that the universe is a construct of an intelligent mind and therefore mechanical, and the evidence on our planet alone refutes this idea entirely. Bad analogy.

[edit]

http://images.salon.com/travel/feature/1999/04/05/sahara/05sahara.gif

[positive terror]

If this is all your argument consists of for the belief of a divine design, then I think your argument is in a bit of strife. There is a big difference between a mechanical device being made (watch) and a universe being created. What you are effectively saying is that the universe is a construct of an intelligent mind and therefore mechanical, and the evidence on our planet alone refutes this idea entirely. Bad analogy.

How I would like that all the answers was honest as yours, I mean, you don't have to wait 1.000 years to know A......les.

Here you have more:

Chance Or Intelligence?

ANALYS


This Universe, indeed displays a remarkable vista of order and consistency. We can observe, for example, the great regularity with which the celestial bodies follow precise orbits, and marvel at the way in which water from the seas is brought to the land by wind-driven clouds, which are in turn formed by the evaporation of water: without this replenishment, life would be impossible. We are also amazed by the migration patterns of many species, including newborn eels, that trek through thousands of miles of ocean, to nestle in their own local streams, and of bees, who use sunlight for navigation in their quest for nectar. We may ponder as to why all living things exist in pairs, and contemplate on the optimality of the processes which comprise the whole universe. Even incredibly minute changes would disrupt the balances in nature: after all, had the earth's orbit been slightly offset in either direction, water and the resulting forms of life would not have emerged. In fact, we observe great unity in the laws of the cosmos; through the spectrum of life and non-life ranging from the microcosmic subatomic particles to the macrocosmic expanse of the universe itself, integration is manifested on every level.
Reflection may lead us to pertinent questions: Could such encompassing order have arisen purely by unintentioned accident? Or could there be an intelligent originator to this spectacular array of living and non-living forms —a designer that may have developed them through processes which have yet to be fully determined? What conclusions are evidential?

Is it probable that all the letters on this page unscrambled themselves by chance to form these meaningful and structured sentences? How then, could a human being - with ears, eyes and a mind - have been formed by chance? Is it credible that such a vast universe with an inestimable billions of galaxies could have evolved by accident? Does not the integration and complexity of a single cell far exceed that of a mere piece of paper with some intelligible writing on it, let alone this universe and all that it contains? (Especially since the universe also contains this piece of paper . . .!)

We know that we are not the cause of ourselves, for embryonic development is organized and directed in stages under natural laws. But directed by what and by whose laws? Chance? Or Intelligence? What about a multiplicity of infinite beings? Could such have been responsible for this cosmological fabrication? Would not the resulting state of this universe have then been disordered and chaotic due to the conflicting commands of these infinitely powerful entities, who would have been trying to accede to the throne of authority in rivalry? Indeed, in such a regime, we would expect to see inconsistency in the universe as opposed to consistency. Instead of rain, we might conceivably have received a heavy downpour of elephants from the skies. (An umbrella would certainly not be terribly useful in such a universe!) Such a scenario would also give rise to the question: which of the infinite beings came first? And why? On the other hand, if such a multiplicity of infinite beings were in perfect agreement for all time, then there would not be any need for more than one - nor is there any evidence.

If our response to the chance (unintentioned creation) and multiplicity (creation by two or more beings) hypotheses is negative, then our answer has to lie between zero and two. In other words, there can only be one unique governing intelligence - unique by the virtue of having no demigods, intermediaries, mystical incarnate beings, or any other human or nonhuman associates. This vast singular intelligence, then, must have created and developed all living and non-living things, as well as space-time itself, and must therefore be independent of it.

If this is our conclusion, then it means that the myriad forms of matter and energy as well as the physiological structure of the human being must be subject to the natural laws of this singular and independent governing intelligence.

In addition to this involuntary physiological dependence of human beings to the prescribed natural laws, we are also endowed with a mind which has the capacity to voluntarily question and reason. A reasoning person would be naturally drawn to the logical conclusion of the existence of a unique originator, and therefore of a meaningful purpose to this existence. Such a person would live with this awareness, in peace with himself or herself and the rest of nature.

Indeed reasoning people live, and have been living throughout the ages in all parts of the world. They can be found dwelling in the midst of exuberant jungles or in our large, populous and crowded cities. What would distinguish such individuals would be the employment of reason as a foundation for life. If such a people are to be given a name which linguistically denotes 'voluntary peaceful submission' to this unique Intelligence, and which includes all of these attributes, a suitable term in one language would be the word Muslim.



For further correspondence, you may write to:
A N A L Y S
University of Toronto
P.O. Box 572
Postal Station P.
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
M5S 2T1
Courtesy of www.beconvinced.com

[cruise4]

And if the conditions didn't exist for this form, we wouldn't be here to marvel at the amazing conditions needed for us to exist in this form. This just doesn't stand up. Sounds good, but isn't.

[edit]

The Runners' Blog (http://www.nationalgeographic.com/runningthesahara/news.html)

[positive terror]

And if the conditions didn't exist for this form, we wouldn't be here to marvel at the amazing conditions needed for us to exist in this form. This just doesn't stand up. Sounds good, but isn't.

Well , Keep it Logic and Simple, that can be the key.

[edit]

http://www.lostfrontiers.com/images/LostFrontiersLogo2.gif
http://www.lostfrontiers.com/images/LF_HomeQuote.gif (http://www.lostfrontiers.com/index.html)

[positive terror]

The Most Extraordinary Incident Ever!

Abdulqadir Diriye


I was reading a book in the dining room when the printer started to print. Strangely, my computer was in ANOTHER room and I was the only person in the house. I picked up the message which read:

"The oceans, the insects, the planets and their orbits, the light and the darkness, the air and the water, the perfect flow of the universe, the life, how did it all begin? By accident?"


I quickly went to check who was using my computer. To my surprise, I found my cat playing on the keyboard and just by hitting different keys of the keyboard it produced this message! Unbelievable! I came back to read the message again. It was in plain human language and there was no chance that a cat could have produced it. I have tried to solve this riddle but to no avail, but I remembered later that I was taught at school that this whole universe itself is the result of an accident, the Big Bang! The Big Bang was an explosion that formed the earth, the sun and the planets, and consequently the water, air and the life. Yes it was an accident as said by the scientists. Scientists also agree that every single element in the nature has a purpose and essential role in the smooth flow of the universe. For example if one star leaves its orbit or if the composition of the atmosphere changes slightly it will not support the life as we know it.

But, if an accident produced this perfect universe, why can't I reward my cat as it became the first ever cat that could WRITE (accidently though)? If my cat can’t write one paragraph in an accident, how can this faultless universe come out of an accident when there was not even a cat on the keyboard? How can I believe the scientists while I cannot believe my own eyes?

[oneofmany]

How I would like that all the answers was honest as yours, I mean, you don't have to wait 1.000 years to know A......les.

Here you have more:

Chance Or Intelligence?


ANALYS


This Universe, indeed displays a remarkable vista of order and consistency. We can observe, for example, the great regularity with which the celestial bodies follow precise orbits, and marvel at the way in which water from the seas is brought to the land by wind-driven clouds, which are in turn formed by the evaporation of water:This is the rule on our planet, not necessarily elsewhere in the universe. without this replenishment, life would be impossible. Once again, only as we know it HERE We are also amazed by the migration patterns of many species, including newborn eels, that trek through thousands of miles of ocean, to nestle in their own local streams, and of bees, who use sunlight for navigation in their quest for nectar. This is ingrained evolution patterns engrained in them over thousands of generations of trial and error We may ponder as to why all living things exist in pairs, Only as we know it on this planet, we may be the exception to the rule and contemplate on the optimality of the processes which comprise the whole universe. This is speculation, as all the facts are not in yet Even incredibly minute changes would disrupt the balances in nature: after all, had the earth's orbit been slightly offset in either direction, water and the resulting forms of life would not have emerged. Are you sure about this? In fact, we observe great unity in the laws of the cosmos; through the spectrum of life and non-life ranging from the microcosmic subatomic particles to the macrocosmic expanse of the universe itself, integration is manifested on every level. As I have stated before, ALL the facts are not in on this as yet.
Reflection may lead us to pertinent questions: Could such encompassing order have arisen purely by unintentioned accident? Or could there be an intelligent originator to this spectacular array of living and non-living forms —a designer that may have developed them through processes which have yet to be fully determined? What conclusions are evidential? I concede that there most certainly could be an intelligent designer, however, the evidence doesn't exist for your hypothesis at the present time, but I leave my options open for it.

Is it probable that all the letters on this page unscrambled themselves by chance to form these meaningful and structured sentences? This is off topic, We know already that Language and writing are the bi products of an intelligent mind so NO, it's not probable at all, nor is my assertion debatable, however, intelligent design of the universe is How then, could a human being - with ears, eyes and a mind - have been formed by chance? Evolution Is it credible that such a vast universe with an inestimable billions of galaxies could have evolved by accident? YES Does not the integration and complexity of a single cell far exceed that of a mere piece of paper with some intelligible writing on it, let alone this universe and all that it contains? (Especially since the universe also contains this piece of paper . . .!) But what are you trying to prove by this statement? Life is complex, and also simple, but that in itself is not proof of creation of the universe by a supreme design.

We know that we are not the cause of ourselves, for embryonic development is organized and directed in stages under natural laws. But directed by what and by whose laws? Chance? Or Intelligence? First off, by stating that we are governed by natural laws implies that we live under immutable direction, which is just not the case, If one of these basic rules you say were unable to go through its natural process, do you think that life would find a way? I do, so if the laws can be broken, and often are, how then can life be governed by intelligence? What about a multiplicity of infinite beings? Could such have been responsible for this cosmological fabrication? Of course Would not the resulting state of this universe have then been disordered and chaotic due to the conflicting commands of these infinitely powerful entities, This is a giant leap, and it is assuming that other intelligences are as stupid as us, which I just don't believe who would have been trying to accede to the throne of authority in rivalry? Indeed, in such a regime, we would expect to see inconsistency in the universe as opposed to consistency. This assertion is WRONG Instead of rain, we might conceivably have received a heavy downpour of elephants from the skies. How do you know that this doesn't happen on another planet or in another dimension?(An umbrella would certainly not be terribly useful in such a universe!) Such a scenario would also give rise to the question: which of the infinite beings came first? And why? On the other hand, if such a multiplicity of infinite beings were in perfect agreement for all time, then there would not be any need for more than one - nor is there any evidence. Your assumptions fit into a neat little box, however, LIFE is not so neat. There is too much unexplained to the human race to fully comprehend such a notion, so at the end of the day, this is a debate about FAITH rather than FACTS.

If our response to the chance (unintentioned creation) and multiplicity (creation by two or more beings) hypotheses is negative, then our answer has to lie between zero and two. In other words, there can only be one unique governing intelligence - unique by the virtue of having no demigods, intermediaries, mystical incarnate beings, or any other human or nonhuman associates. This vast singular intelligence, then, must have created and developed all living and non-living things, as well as space-time itself, and must therefore be independent of it. Your missing the biggest scenario of the lot here. What if we are living in an illusion created by our own collective conciousness, and it is ourselves that are the creators and everything we see and touch in this world is merely a reflection of us, the many from the one.

If this is our conclusion, then it means that the myriad forms of matter and energy as well as the physiological structure of the human being must be subject to the natural laws of this singular and independent governing intelligence. No, only the illusion that we are separate and must live in this world of so called natural laws and beliefs of a higher consciousness. once again, the proof is not there for your hypothesis, but there is plenty of evidence for mine, like Magic Mushrooms, Ayahuasca, DMT etc which open up your mind to these possibilities.

In addition to this involuntary physiological dependence of human beings to the prescribed natural laws, NO, they are broken all the time, and scientists are finding out that their view on the world is constantly changing because the "natural laws" are also we are also endowed with a mind which has the capacity to voluntarily question and reason. A reasoning person would be naturally drawn to the logical conclusion of the existence of a unique originator, WRONG and therefore of a meaningful purpose to this existence. Who says you have to believe in God to have a meaningful existence? Such a person would live with this awareness, in peace with himself or herself and the rest of nature. Like the true believers have for thousands of years? :rolleyes: Right

Indeed reasoning people live, and have been living throughout the ages in all parts of the world. They can be found dwelling in the midst of exuberant jungles or in our large, populous and crowded cities. What would distinguish such individuals would be the employment of reason as a foundation for life. If such a people are to be given a name which linguistically denotes 'voluntary peaceful submission' to this unique Intelligence, and which includes all of these attributes, a suitable term in one language would be the word Muslim. Whatever dude, do a bit of research on the origins of Islam, and you might be surprised by it's hypocrasy, and as for the tribal people of the world, how come some of the oldest tribal people like the Australian Aboriginal have no word for GOD?



For further correspondence, you may write to:
A N A L Y S
University of Toronto
P.O. Box 572
Postal Station P.
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
M5S 2T1
Courtesy of www.beconvinced.com (http://www.beconvinced.com)Pure propaganda

[positive terror]

I am not selling anything

[positive terror]

These texts make you think, and think is healthy.

[cruise4]

There is obviously intelligence at work somewhere. But lets not pretend indoctrination does not have a causal role in the so-called human religious experience.

[mariag]

These texts make you think, and think is healthy.
yes to think by your own will is healthy not by mind controlled prisons like religions for example....

But to have an open mind and have thoughts of your own that makes you an independent person with own ideas and an own "free" will where you dont allow yourself to be controlled neither manipulated by excuse me but fools.

[bananaman]

This is a good thread and I'm going to answer it with a post I whacked up on Richard Dawkin's board:

The problem of experience/consciousness
by Bananaman on Sat Jul 28, 2007 10:47 pm

Now I'm an atheist. Or am I? I'd say I'm 95% atheist and a 5% agnostic wishy-washy all over the place 'who knows what the hell's going on?' droopy-pants. I can do the rational explanation stuff, but I run up again and again, especially as I get older, against the problem of experiencing being me. I was very excited when I saw Richard Dawkins new book had a section dealing with the problem of experience, but then was disappointed that he side-stepped the issue I had in mind. It was all all about experiencing other worldly stuff and I soon lost interest.

My quibble is very basic and probably one you hardened Dawkins forum writers have kicked into touch many times. It's this: if there's no afterlife why is the experience of being me so personal? I'm me. I look at this screen on the computer and tap on the keyboard and think my own thoughts and choose the words I'm writing and...it's all in colour and I'm seeing the colours and can smell the chilli I have on a plate by my keyboard and can taste the nightcap I have in a glass on the other side of the pc and am about to spark up a life shortening cigarette which I shall enjoy as I inhale the smoke, and it's all stuff I experience as me, and you know exactly what I'm talking about because you're you and you've been there too or somewhere similar.

My question is not about religion or anything of that sort, but the problem, as I see it, of being me: consciousness. You can explain its advantages objectively in terms of evolution, but the 'in the face' experience is always avoided by rationalists.

Where does the fact that an itching bum drives you completely out of your mind fit in with there being nothing else except what we see and when it's all over we become food for worms? It doesn't make sense.

Bananaman (The all of a doo-dah).Bananaman

[auron]

http://www.lostfrontiers.com/images/LostFrontiersLogo2.gif
http://www.lostfrontiers.com/images/LF_HomeQuote.gif (http://www.lostfrontiers.com/index.html)

Nice link Edit! :)