7 Reasons to Read the Glorious Qur'an

[positive terror]

7 Reasons to Read the Glorious Qur'an

1. Inimitable
It dares you to disprove it. How? It says that humans cannot write a book like this even if they pooled all their resources together and got help also from the spirits. The Qur'an said this fourteen hundred years ago and yet no one has been able to disprove it.. Billions of books have been written, but not another one like the Qur'an.


2. Incorruptible
It is the only religious sacred writing that has been in circulation for such a long time and yet remains as pure as it was in the beginning. The Qur'an was kept intact. Nothing was added to it, nothing was changed in it, and nothing was taken away from it ever since its revelation was completed 1400 hundred years ago.


3. Unsurpassable
The Qur'an is God's final revelation to humankind. God revealed the Torah to Moses, the Psalms to David, the Gospel to Jesus, and finally the Qur'an to Muhammad. Peace be upon Moses, David, Jesus and Muhammad. No other book will come from God to surpass His final revelation.


4. Indisputable
The Qur'an withstands the test of time and scrutiny. No one can dispute the truth of this book. It speaks about past history and turns out right. It speaks about the future in prophecies and it turns our right. It mentions details of physical phenomena which were not known to people at the time; yet later scientific discoveries prove that the Qur'an was right all along. Every other book needs to be revised to accord with modern knowledge. The Qur'an alone is never contradicted by a newly discovered scientific fact.


5. Your Roadmap for Life and Afterlife
The Qur'an is the best guidebook on how to structure your life. No other book presents such a comprehensive system involving all aspects of human life and endeavor. The Qur'an also points out the way to secure everlasting happiness in the afterlife. It is your roadmap showing how to get to Paradise.


6. God's Gift of Guidance
God has not left alone. You were made for a reason. God tells you why he made you, what he demands from you and what he has in store for you. If you operate a machine contrary to it's manufacturer's specification you will ruin that machine. What about you? Do you have an owner's manual for yourself? The Qur'an is from your Maker. It is a gift for you to make sure you function for success, lest you fail to function. It is a healing from God. It satisfies the soul, and cleans the heart. It removes doubts and brings peace.


7. Your Calling Card to Communicate with you Lord
Humans are social creatures. We love to communicate with other intelligent life. The Qur'an tells us how to communicate with the source of all intelligence and the source of all life, the One God. The Qur'an tell us who God is, by what name we should address Him, and the way in which to communicate with Him.

Explore the world of the Holy Qur’an (Click Here) (http://www.ketabullah.com/)



Download The Holy Quran In Your Language (http://www.islamway.com/SF/quran/)

[cheeb]

Can the qu'aran be questioned,
Is facing towards a black meteorite Idolatary,
Is the Kabba with it's 366 stones,
a pagan temple,
is not truth in your heart
not in a distant place

[positive terror]

Is facing towards a black meteorite Idolatary,


When Umar ibn al-Khattab (580-644), the second Caliph, came to kiss the Stone, he said in front of all assembled: "No doubt, I know that you are a stone and can neither harm anyone nor benefit anyone. Had I not seen Allah's Messenger [Muhammad] kissing you, I would not have kissed you."[11] Many Muslims follow Umar: they pay their respects to the Black Stone in a spirit of trust in Muhammad, not with any belief in the Black Stone itself. This, however does not indicate their disrespect to the stone, but their belief that harm and benefit are in the hands of God, and nothing else.

From Wikipedia.

Is the Kabba with it's 366 stones,
a pagan temple,


The Kaaba is the holiest place in Islam.[1] The qibla, the direction Muslims face during prayer, is the direction from their location on Earth towards the Kaaba. It is around the Kaaba that ritual circumambulation is performed by Muslims during the Hajj (pilgrimage) season as well as during the Umrah (lesser pilgrimage).[1]

According to the Qur'an, the Kaaba was built by Ibrahim (Abraham) and his son Ismail (Ishmael [1]). Islamic traditions assert that the Kaaba "reflects" a house in heaven called al-Baytu l-Maˤmur[13] (Arabic: البيت المعمور) and that it was first built by the first man, Adam. Ibrahim and Ismail rebuilt the Kaaba on the old foundations. [14]

When Muhammad conquered Mecca, he destroyed the 360 idols around Kaaba which the Meccan pagans possessed. [15][16] There was one god for each day of the year. [15] While destroying each idol, Muhammad recited [Qur'an 17:81] which says "Truth has arrived and falsehood has perished for falsehood is by its nature bound to perish.'" [15][16]

Muhammad then entered the Ka`abah and ordered all the pictures to be destroyed. [16]

Kaaba - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

is not truth in your heart
not in a distant place

You tell me what is TRUTH

[cheeb]

he left Abrahim,
And prophet jesus [isa](pboh)
in the kabba,
and he did not tear the black stone down.

[positive terror]

You ask too much , and YOU READ NOTHING!!!!!

Go to learn , and back in a few years.

[cheeb]

truth comes from angel gabril,
not black stone,
or idols,
pagan!!!

[positive terror]

truth comes from angel gabril,
not black stone,
or idols,
pagan!!!

You make me laugh, you remind me to the unfaithful Jews that tried to ridicule Jesus, but the truth is high that your lies.
People like your they are very dangerous, because they know the truth and they ignore it, its very ugly what you do, you make yourself the ridicule.

Here you have a lesson of monotheism

The Oneness of God:

The foundation of the Islamic faith is belief in the Oneness of Almighty God - the God of Abraham, Noah, Moses and Jesus. Islam teaches that a pure belief in One God is intuitive in human beings and thus fulfills the natural inclination of the soul. As such, Islam's concept of God is straightforward, unambiguous and easy to understand. Islam teaches that the hearts, minds and souls of human beings are fitting receptacles for clear divine revelation, and that God's revelations to man are not clouded by self-contradictory mysteries or irrational ideas. As such, Islam teaches that even though God cannot be fully comprehended and grasped by our finite human minds, He also does not expect us to accept absurd or demonstrably false beliefs about Him. According to the teachings of Islam, Almighty God is absolutely One and His Oneness should never be compromised by associating partners with Him - neither in worship nor in belief. Due to this, Muslims are required to maintain a direct relationship with God, and therefore all intermediaries are absolutely forbidden. From the Islamic standpoint, believing in the Oneness of God means to realize that all prayer and worship should be exclusively for God, and that He alone deserves such titles as "Lord" and "Savior". Some religions, even though they believe on "One God", do not make all of their worship and prayers for Him alone. Also, they also give the title of "Lord" to beings that are not All-Knowing, All-Powerful and Un-Changing - even according to their own scriptures. Suffice it to say that according to Islam, it is not enough that people believe that "God is One", but they must actualize this belief by proper conduct. In short, in the Islamic concept of God, which is completely based on Divine Revelation, there is no ambiguity in divinity - God is God and man is man. Since God is the only Creator and continual Sustainer of the Universe, He is transcendent above His creation - the Creator and the creature never mix. Islam teaches that God has a unique nature and that He is free from gender, human weaknesses and beyond anything which human beings can imagine. The Qur'an teaches that the signs and proofs of God's wisdom, power and existence are evident in the world around us. As such, God calls on man to ponder over the creation in order to build a better understanding of his Creator. Muslims believe that God is Loving, Compassionate and Merciful, and that He is concerned with the daily affairs of human beings. In this, Islam strikes a unique balance between false religious and philosophical extremes. Some religions and philosophies portray God as just an impersonal "Higher Power" who is uninterested, or unaware, of the life of each individual human. Other religions tend to give God human qualities and teach that He is present in His creation, by being incarnate in someone, something - or even everything. In Islam, however, Almighty God has clarified the truth by letting mankind know that He is "Compassionate", "Merciful", "Loving" and the "Answerer of Prayers". But He as also emphasized strongly that "there is nothing like unto Him", and that He is high above time, space and His creation. Finally, it should be mentioned that the God that Muslims worship is the same God that Jews and Christians worship - because there is only one God. It is unfortunate that some people mistakenly believe that Muslims worship a different God than Jews and Christians, and that "Allah" is just the "god of the Arabs". This myth, which has been propagated by the enemies of Islam, is completely false since the word "Allah" is simply the Arabic name for Almighty God. It is the same word for God which is used by Arabic-speaking Jews and Christians. However, it should be clarified that even though Muslims worship the same God as Jews and Christian, their concept of Him differs somewhat from the beliefs of other religions - mainly because it is based completely on Divine Revelation from God. For example, Muslims reject the Christian belief that God is a Trinity, not only becaue the Qur'an rejects it, but also because if this was God's true nature, He would have clearly revealed it to Abraham, Noah, Jesus and all of the other prophets.

Source Here (http://discover.islamway.com/articles.php?article_id=2)

[cheeb]

Its unreadable, idolater,
or the voice of djhinn1

[edit]

Source Here (http://discover.islamway.com/articles.php?article_id=2)



Let's see....

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[positive terror]

Its unreadable, idolater,
or the voice of djhinn1

I already supposed that you don't know how to read.

Can we know at least what religion you practice?

[cheeb]

I tire of your idolatory.
you are nothing to me,
you dwell in the flames,
and try to drag every one with you,
for comfort,
now leave me you dhijjn.

[positive terror]

I tire of your idolatory.
you are nothing to me,
you dwell in the flames,
and try to drag every one with you,
for comfort,
now leave me you dhijjn.

And you are not tired of lying?
Don't you want to tell us what religion you practice? You are Not proud of her? You disgust me cheebiot.

[tinmenace]

So, what are you trying to do here Positive Terror? Are you showing us how much you love your religion? Are you trying to convert anyone? Or, are you just trying to flood the forum with your own dogma strapped posts?

I mean, you're entitled to post whatever you want, I'm just trying to understand your reason for coming to this forum?

Just tonight, you have started six threads:


09:04pm
09:20pm
09:22pm
09:56pm
10:00pm
10:22pm


...and the night is still young.

So, what's the story?

[positive terror]

I have posted these texts for people that interests him/her to read and to meditate, how you becomed senior member? Criticizing the other users?......
make something useful....the night is still young.

[tinmenace]

I have posted these texts for people that interests him/her to read and to meditate, how you becomed senior member? Criticizing the other users?......
make something useful....the night is still young.

Nothing I said was meant as an insult. I'm just curious why you find it necessary to post 6 threads about religion, in one hour. I also noticed that you have a very short fuse and you're quick to lose your temper if anyone disagrees with you or questions you.

I think you have an agenda. I was just curious if you had big enough balls to admit it. Apparently not. ;)

[positive terror]

Nothing I said was meant as an insult. I'm just curious why you find it necessary to post 6 threads about religion, in one hour. I also noticed that you have a very short fuse and you're quick to lose your temper if anyone disagrees with you or questions you.

I think you have an agenda. I was just curious if you had big enough balls to admit it. Apparently not.

My agenda is to help us to destroy the new world order, sincerely, I exchange my information in the same way that you with me...so much bother you that?!
I think that all the people are free, you can believe what you want, me alone I am making of this forum completer.... do you find bad? Do I have to be quiet here also?

[tinmenace]

No, you don't have to be quiet, but you can't expect anyone else to be quiet either.

How can you be truly free when you have religion imprisoning you?

[positive terror]

All right, I want to see you criticizing all the users that have post books about Buddhism, satanism, Christianity, zen, induism.....you have work for while, .... or you will be discriminating against me alone ?

You also believe in something, everybody has a belief although it is the atheism, then your also in prison?

I am free and I feel free, because God has created me free and He has given me the freedom

[tinmenace]

Don't victimize yourself. I don't believe in religion at all, so I've had similar discussions about Christianity, Judaism, and so on.

Surely you don't think you can come onto the forum of the man that helps people to see that religion is merely a control created by the Illuminati, and not expect people to question and debate your religion?

Scroll through the RANT ROOM, and take a look at the thread called "Fucking Christianity". No religion is safe here. :)

[montag]

All right, I want to see you criticizing all the users that have post books about Buddhism, satanism, Christianity, zen, induism.....you have work for while, .... or you will be discriminating against me alone ?
PT you're free to post anything on this forum so long as it abides with the guidelines, but opening six threads in one evening on the same topic is spamming the board.. Please contain your posts on Islam and religion in the threads already opened and do not open anymore..

Montag

[Anders Lindman]

I have a Swedish version of the Qur'an but I have only read a little bit of it. I have read much more of the Bible and the Bhagavadgita for example. I think I will read some more of the Qur'an. And especially check the text about riba (usury). That will be interesting.

[positive terror]

And especially check the text about riba (usury). That will be interesting.


Riba (Usury and Interest)According to Quran and Sunnah

WWW.MUTTAQUN.COM



Defining the Problem


Riba (Usury) is of two major kinds:

Riba An-Nasia - Interest on lent money

Riba Al-Fadl - Taking a superior thing of the same kind of goods by giving more of the same kind of goods of inferior quality, eg.,dates of superior quality for dates of inferior quality in great amounts.

The definition of Interest, the literal meaning of interest or Al-Riba as it is used in the arabic language means to excess or increase. In the Islamic terminology interest means effortless profit or that profit which comes free from compensation or that extra earning obtained that is free of exchange. Riba has been described as a loan with the condition that the borrower will return to the lender more than and better than the quantity borrowed.

As muslims, our main concern when it comes to financial transactions is to avoid Riba in any of its forms, despite the fact that the basic foundation of the world economics and finance today is that of riba and dealing in usury.

The Prophet has foretold us of a time when the spread of riba would be so overwhelming that it would be extremely difficult for the muslim to avoid it. This situation calls for muslims to be extra cautious before deciding on what money payment of financial methods to use in any personal or business transaction.

To make sure that we are safe from Riba, we have to learn which transactions lead to it.



The Noble Qur'an - Al-Baqarah 275-281

275. Those who eat Ribâ (usury) will not stand (on the Day of Resurrection) except like the standing of a person beaten by Shaitân (Satan) leading him to insanity. That is because they say: "Trading is only like Ribâ (usury)," whereas Allâh has permitted trading and forbidden Ribâ (usury). So whosoever receives an admonition from his Lord and stops eating Ribâ (usury) shall not be punished for the past; his case is for Allâh (to judge); but whoever returns [to Ribâ (usury)], such are the dwellers of the Fire - they will abide therein.

276. Allâh will destroy Ribâ (usury) and will give increase for Sadaqât (deeds of charity, alms, etc.) And Allâh likes not the disbelievers, sinners.

277. Truly those who believe, and do deeds of righteousness, and perform As-Salât (Iqâmat-as-Salât), and give Zakât, they will have their reward with their Lord. On them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

278. O you who believe! Be afraid of Allâh and give up what remains (due to you) from Ribâ (usury) (from now onward), if you are (really) believers.

279. And if you do not do it, then take a notice of war from Allâh and His Messenger but if you repent, you shall have your capital sums. Deal not unjustly (by asking more than your capital sums), and you shall not be dealt with unjustly (by receiving less than your capital sums).

280. And if the debtor is in a hard time (has no money), then grant him time till it is easy for him to repay, but if you remit it by way of charity, that is better for you if you did but know.

281. And be afraid of the Day when you shall be brought back to Allâh. Then every person shall be paid what he earned, and they shall not be dealt with unjustly.


The Noble Qur'an - Al-Imran 3:130

O you who believe! Eat not Ribâ (usury) doubled and multiplied, but fear Allâh that you may be successful.


Conclusion

After reading the above, it is apparent to us that interest is haram (prohibited). How could anybody even take the time out to think about a matter in which Allah has declared war on the user and his Beloved Prophet has cursed him? As sensible people we can understand that what our Creator has chosen for us is for our own prosperity and benefit.

Islam has encouraged men to earn their own provision and provide for their families. The condition is that the earning has to be according to the Shari’ah. These rules can be found under the heading of trade in the books of jurisprudence. Interest is amongst those conditions which all dealings must be free from.

Imam Abu Hanifah has ruled that if the measurement system (volumetric or in compounds) is the same and the two items are in the same category, then they should be sold in the same amount and direct not in credit otherwise interest will be found.

Imam Shaf’ee says that if the items are valuable and could be considered food then there is the chance of interest.

Imam Malik says that if the items are valuable and are edible then interest is a subject.

[Anders Lindman]

This is interesting:

"And We said, "O Adam dwell you and your wife in this (paradise) and eat freely thereof where you will but do not approach this tree lest you become of the transgressors." -- The Quran, Surah 2:35

From: http://www.ahadees.com/english-surah-2.html

Who are the 'We' in the text?

[positive terror]

ALLAH, THE CREATOR.

He speaks in plural in almost the whole Koran, God went to the Arabs in the same way that they spoke, In classic Arabic,use the plural when a single person speaks is completely correct and is continued using.

[Anders Lindman]

ALLAH, THE CREATOR.

He speaks in plural in almost the whole Koran, God went to the Arabs in the same way that they spoke, In classic Arabic,use the plural when a single person speaks is completely correct and is continued using.

But then the translators have not done a good job. In both English and in Swedish they write 'We' ('Vi' in Swedish) and surely that must be a wrong translation? Because in those languages 'We' always means plural.

The same in the Bible. For example:

"Then God said, 'Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.'" -- Genesis 1:26 (New International Version)

:confused:

[seanx]

tinmenace wrote:
Don't victimize yourself. I don't believe in religion at all, so I've had similar discussions about Christianity, Judaism, and so on.

Surely you don't think you can come onto the forum of the man that helps people to see that religion is merely a control created by the Illuminati, and not expect people to question and debate your religion?

Scroll through the RANT ROOM, and take a look at the thread called "Fucking Christianity". No religion is safe here.

Excellent post. concise and to the point.

Still amazes me that none of our resident Christians fundamentalists
have nothing to say to our islamic fundamentalist here.

Could it be they have MORE IN COMMON than they realize?

[tinmenace]

tinmenace wrote:


Excellent post. concise and to the point.

Still amazes me that none of our resident Christians fundamentalists
have nothing to say to our islamic fundamentalist here.

Could it be they have MORE IN COMMON than they realize?

Thank you, and I think you hit the nail on the head with "FUNDAMENTALIST".

[h1s_l0rdsh1p]

I have respect for Muslims because of one large factor.

They leave me alone. I know about their religion and understand their faith. And they understand that, and so long as I am not "throwing my heretic" around, they have no problem with me.

With that, they don't go of telling me about their religion unless I ask.
Which I like. And I have taken a good look and spoken with many muslims. But to be frank, although the Qu'Ran is very convincing... I still don't believe it.


It's climax is the end where you get to go to heaven and don't have to go to hell.

More threats...


You take a damn good look around at the world, and you tell me if you feel human beings need to suffer more because of what?!

Because I didn't believe my creator was THIS being??


Fuck off...

I'm sorry but fuck off.
I hate dogma, and I hate that which makes you question your love for yourself as a human being.

[clipwip]

I thought Hamlet was hands-down better than the Koran. Come to think of it, most great works of literature are way better than the Koran. Have you read the "billions of books" written which supposedly pale in comparison?

Call me crazy, but there seems to be an air of BIAS in your assessment. In fact, the vowels aren't essential in that uppercase term.

[positive terror]

But then the translators have not done a good job. In both English and in Swedish they write 'We' ('Vi' in Swedish) and surely that must be a wrong translation? Because in those languages 'We' always means plural.

The same in the Bible. For example:

"Then God said, 'Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.'" -- Genesis 1:26 (New International Version)





Why does Allah at times speak in the plural form in the Quran?


Praise be to Allaah.

The answer is in two parts:

In general terms, every believer must believe that every action of Allaah has great wisdom behind it, and there is no need for it to be explained in full to every person. This is a kind of test, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “… that He may test you which of you is best in deed…” [al-Mulk 67:2]

To answer this question in more detail: the Qur’aan was revealed in the language of the Arabs, and in Arabic it is as correct to use the plural when speaking of one person as it is to use the singular. But the plural is used for respect and glorification, and no one is more deserving of respect and glorification than Allaah. So the singular is used to affirm the fact that He is One and has no partner or associate, and the plural is used to affirm His glory and majesty, may He be exalted.

Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) wrote in Majmaoo’ al-Fataawaa (5/128) some words which may be of interest to us here:

“With regard to Allaah’s closeness to us, sometimes it is mentioned in the singular, as in the aayah (interpretation of the meaning): ‘And when My slaves ask you (O Muhammad) concerning Me, then (answer them) I am indeed near (to them by My knowledge). I respond to the invocations of the supplicant when he calls on Me…’ [al-Baqarah 2:186] and the hadeeth: ‘The One on Whom you call is closer to any one of you than the neck of his riding-camel’, and sometimes in the plural, as in the aayah (interpretation of the meaning): ‘… And We are nearer to Him than his jugular vein’ [Qaaf 50:16]. This is like the aayaat (interpretation of the meanings): ‘We recite to you…’ [al-Qasas 28:3] and ‘We relate unto you…’ [Yoosuf 12:3]. Such usage in Arabic refers to the one who is great and has helpers who obey him; when his helpers do something by his command, he says ‘We did it,’ as a king might say, ‘We conquered this land and we defeated this army,’ and so on.”

And Allaah knows best.

[positive terror]

thought Hamlet was hands-down better than the Koran.

Does have hamlet these marvels?



The miracle of numbers in the holy Quran



Praise and glory to Allah (he who said) in his exalted book : ( Say: If the whole of mankind and jinns were to gather together to produce the like of this Quran , they could not produce the like thereof , even if they backed up each other with help and support ) al-isra 88

The Holy Quran ..the book of Allah the exalted ..the absolute creator ..the supernatural knower .. who knows how mankind do , their present also their future ..so no doubt it included in-between its borders from each example [S1] ..and the miracles of the Holy Quran is remaining until the day of judgment .. that is everyday more and more of its miracles are discovered ..but sorrowful we abandoned them and didn’t give them their rights ..from those many miracles The miracle of the numerical Quran which leaves no way to any wise man to doubt about it , so if it was from Mohammad’s words ( peace of Allah be upon him) from where could he had all these abilities.

The miracle of numbers in the Holy Quran is really an amazing issue , and some of the Muslim scientists have begun studying this miracle since a short time not more than 20 years such as professor Abdul Rzak Nofl and others , and without the statistics machines and the computers the study and the establishing of this astonishing mathematical miracle couldn’t happen, as this miracle has based on numbers and numbers can speak about them selves so there is no place here to discuss or to show out contrasted theories also there can’t be any explanations to reject it and it proofs without any doubt that the Holy Quran is from God " God’s words " and so we received it completely saved from any distortion , adding or taking any thing of it , that is because any diminution of one letter or one word or on the contrary its addition will lead to the disturbance of the whole system of the Holy Quran

And it was God willing which made the miracle of numbers as a secret until the discovery of the computers , and that is explain the Holy verse which say : ( Soon will We show them Our signs in the (furthest) regions (of the earth) , and in their own souls , until it becomes manifest of them that this is the truth . Is it not enough that thy Lord doth witness all things ) fosilat 53

And news came from the western world that the numerical miracle of the Holy Quran was placed under studying and examination also conferences began to be held in the Arabic and Islamic world looking for the scientific and numerical miracles in the Holy Quran, and here you are some of the discovered numerical miracles of some words that mentioned in the Holy Quran ( copied from the book of professor Abdul Rzak Nofl) :

- The word Life was repeated 145 times / Death repeated 145 times
- The word Righteousness 167 / Evil 167
- Life of this world 115 / Hereafter(life to come) 115
- Angles 88 / Devil 88
- Guidance 79 / Mercy 79
- Tribulation 102 / Patience 102
- Peace 50 / Good and pure 50
- Manifest (open in speech ) 16 / Publicness 16
- Iblis 11 / Refuge with God 11
- Merciful 114 twice the word Gracious 57
- Forgiveness 234 twice the word Reward 117
- Righteous 6 twice the word Wicked 3
- Relief 36 , 3 times Difficulty 12
- They said 332 / Say 332
- Man (singular) 24 / Woman (singular ) 24
- Misfortune 75 / Gratitude (grateful) 75
And as for the Arabic language which God has chosen it to be the language of Holy Quran we can find the following discoveries:

If we think carefully about the number of letters in the word "aldnia" which means the life in this word we will find it 6 letters , also the number of letters of the word "alhiah" is 6 (it means life also)

And the factors of life are .. the skies and what are inside them .. and the earth and what are on it so that points to .. .. .. .. and depends on it

The Holy Quran decided that God created us in six days which means six phases and that is mentioned in the blessed verses:

(He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in six days , and is moreover firmly established on the throne (of authority )... )al hdid 4

(Man We did create from a quintessence (12) Then We placed him as (a drop of ) sperm in a place of rest , firmly fixed ; (13) Then We made the sperm into a clot of congealed blood; then of that clot We made a (foetus) lump ; then We made out of that lump bones and clothed the bones with flesh : the We developed out of it another creature . So blessed be God , the Best to create !)al moumenon 12-14

which means that the word "aldnia "composed of six letters and was created in six phases and the human being "al-Insan" consists of seven letters and he is created in seven phases as in the verses:

(Man We did create from a quintessence (12) Then We placed him as (a drop of ) sperm in a place of rest , firmly fixed ; (13) Then We made the sperm into a clot of congealed blood; then of that clot We made a (foetus) lump ; then We made out of that lump bones and clothed the bones with flesh :the We developed out of it another creature. So blessed be God, the Best to create ! )al moumenon 12-14

And we can find that the first Sura in the Holy Quran "al -fateha" which says:

( In the name of God , Most Gracious , Most Merciful (1) Praise be to God , The Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds (2) Most Gracious , Most Merciful (3) Master of the Day of judgment (4) Thee do we worship , and Thine aid we seek (5) Show us the straight way (6) The way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace , Those Whose ( potion ) is not worth , And Who go not astray (7) )

consists of seven verses including "In the name of God .. .. .." or "al-bsmalah " it has been considered a verse , and it is repeated in every Sura except for Sura "al-tuba" .. and it doesn’t considered in all of them as a verse ,as for "al -fateha" it is seven verses with "al-bsmalah" and six only without it.

The last Sura of the Holy Quran is "al-nas" or the people and it says : (Say: I seek refuge with the Lord and cherisher of Mankind (1) The King (or Ruler ) of Mankind (2) The God (or Judge ) of Mankind (3) From the mischief of the Whisperer ( of Evil ) , Who withdraws (after his whisper) (4) (The same ) Who Whispers into the hearts of Mankind (5) Among ( or from ) jinns and among (or from ) Men (6) )

It is also formed of six verses without "al-bsmalah", and for number seven it had been talked about it previously ,about some of what mentioned about it , what it brought and what is based on it in the Holy Quran and that was in the collection of the " Numerical miracles in the Holy Quran"

As for God’s adding it is that human creation was in seven phases and the word "al-Insan" or human is formed of seven letters equal with it in numbers the letters of the words "al-Quran , al-forqun , al-Ingil which means the Bible , al-twrah the Holy book of Jews " and that is in Arabic of course , each word of them formed of seven letters also "sohf Moses " which means the books of Moses are formed of seven letters ,and Abraham the father of messengers is also formed of seven letters.

So Is this a numerical sign and an arithmetical balanced issue to insure that these messages and books were sent down to Mankind .. at all his different stages .. and all his doings , while on the contrary we can find that "Al-shitan" or the devil is formed of seven letters , so is this an insurance for his hostility for Mankind in each time and at his all different situations , and he is trying hardly to restrain him totally from the complete and inclusive guidance that God sent down to Mankind in the books of Abraham and Moses ,al-twrah , al-Ingil, al-forqun which is the Holy Quran , this is true , praise and glory to God that says "with He is the decision "or "lho al-amr" which is formed of seven Arabic letters also , and if God wants something He just says "be, behold it is " or "kn fyakon " and this is also formed of seven Arabic letters

He created over Mankind seven tracts as it is mentioned ( And We have made , above you , seven tracts ; and We are never unmindful of our creation )al moumnon 17

And He made to hell seven gates as in the blessed verse ( And verily , hell is the promised abode for them all(43) To it are seven gates : for each of those gates is a ( special ) class ( of sinners ) assigned (44) )al hgger 43-44

In the exact middle of the long Sura" al baqarh" which consists of 286 verses , and if we want to know the verse which comes in the middle of the Sura of course it will be the verse number 143 and there is no wonder about that but if we read this verse which says ( Thus have We made of you an Ummat justly balanced that ye might be witnesses over the nations )the phrase "Ummat justly balanced "was expressed in Arabic language as a middle nation is this a coincidence ? No

Because if there is only a few numbers of signs like those signs we would say it is a coincidence .. but there are plenty of them .. which is an evidence of its scientific miracles , so glory to God Who based or established meanings of His verses

The repeating of the word "worship": it is mentioned in the Holy Quran God’s order " worship " which is repeated three times directed to Mankind at all ,three times to the people of Makh , three times said by Noah to his people , three times said by Hud to his people , three times said by Salih to his people and the last three times said by Jesus to his people... this is a strange secret ..and an astonishing matter .. is it a coincidence? If it was only this we may say so .. but brother it is so many full of rhyme , organization and accurate arrangement

( And penetrate forth with into the midst (of the foe ) en masse ; )Sura al adiat the verse number 5 and the total verses of the Sura are 11, so by adding the "al-bsmalah " or "In the name of God the Most Gracious , Most Merciful "in the beginning of the Sura and considering it as a verse the verse".. the midst (of the foe ).. " will be at the exact middle of the Sura

Also in Sura "al Qalam " which is formed of 52 verses we can find the exact middle verse number 28 says ( Said one of them , more just (than the rest ): Did I not say to you , Why not glorify (God)?)

the phrase (.. one of them ..)was expressed in Arabic by one of the middle of them

and God knows all

Click Here To see more MIRACLES OF THE QURAN (http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_index.html)

Click Here to Read The Miracles Of The Quran (http://www.55a.net/firas/english/index.php)

[peachped]

:) LOL You're on a wind up! :D

http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_80.html

[cheeb]

nah,
he is clinging to his religion,
by his fingertips,
fighting it to the last,
When he lets go he will be welcomed on here,
and could even be with people who accept him for who he is,
this place is full of good people,
and good information,
whether you agree with them or not,
compassion and empathy,
is what this forum is about.+

[peachped]

Aye - but let's remember that the penalty for apostacy from the 'religion of peace' is DEATH!:eek:;) Take all the time you need PT mate! :p

[cheeb]

Aye - but let's remember that the penalty for apostacy from the 'religion of peace' is DEATH!:eek:;) Take all the time you need PT mate! :p

Or a fate worse than death'
Endless links to:
Michael Tsarion videos:
:rolleyes:

[tinmenace]

Here's a few reasons the Qur'an is not such a good read:

Muhammad was a Pedophile (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=90202&postcount=2)

Muhammad was a Terrorist (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=90220&postcount=5)

Muhammad was a Misogynist (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=90224&postcount=7)

Muhammad and Pederasty (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=90234&postcount=12)





.

[positive terror]

nah,
he is clinging to his religion,
by his fingertips,
fighting it to the last,
When he lets go he will be welcomed on here,
and could even be with people who accept him for who he is,
this place is full of good people,
and good information,
whether you agree with them or not,
compassion and empathy,
is what this forum is about.+

It is not what you think, it makes me happy that I can be the cause that one of you has added information to his knowledge thanks to one of my texts.

[positive terror]

Here's a few reasons the Qur'an is not such a good read:


And you are envious and a lier, why you allow to see your text alone ? Why you dont allow to see my logical answers to your without base and feeble questions ? You are in a good way to transforming into a freemason or an illuminati, HIDING INFORMATION!!!

[ngawaka19]

his lordship, tinmenace, cheeb, I love you guys, brilliant.

terror, take it easy man, if your religion is what you say it is, it doesn't need any of us to acknowledge it as being valid and righteous. It would be able to stand as would you within its sturdiness, merely offer the information, lead us to the trough of water, but don't shove our heads in. We can see the water, we know its there, thanks for reminding us. But there's no need to wrestle our heads in the trough. That's not of God. One love, kindness, no judgement, peace, brother.

For me, I see one of the most important areas of life is the giving of life, the creation of life, the universe of knitting cells together along with a gateway for consciousness to arrive. A yielding supple harbour, that allows the ebb and flow of the creation of a being. Who on earth does this? Where does this physical miracle happen? If I may, within the womb of a woman.

For me, I find it very difficult upon the insistence, to read your religions words, when I am aware of the horrific crimes that are stated, practiced and supported towards life's sacred vessel...............woman.

There is and will never be any justification for the brutality mothers sisters and daughters are subjected to by the men of your religion and race. I'm not saying that this is all of you, of course it would not be, and truly is a holy man that does not or has not blood on his hands. These words are strong I know, but not as strong as the message that your religion gives to the outer world of aggression, control, disdain, abuse, violence towards woman.

Woman is life, judge that, abuse that, harm that, and you have an anti humanist society.

When the Islam religion has there own back yard in order and they are all good with the mothers, sisters, and daughters in that back yard. Then maybe I might look at the words.

Allah was just one of the many gods, another right hand man to creation

jah lives

[tinmenace]

And you are envious and a lier, why you allow to see your text alone ? Why you dont allow to see my logical answers to your without base and feeble questions ? You are in a good way to transforming into a freemason or an illuminati, HIDING INFORMATION!!!

See the Text that is underlined like this? (http://www.globalfailure.com/images/emotes/loserr.gif) That's a hyperlink. You click on it ;)

[seanx]

cheeb wrote:

nah,
he is clinging to his religion,
by his fingertips,
fighting it to the last,
When he lets go he will be welcomed on here,
and could even be with people who accept him for who he is,
this place is full of good people,
and good information,
whether you agree with them or not,
compassion and empathy,
is what this forum is about.+

Few words. Yet huge effect.
A master wordsmith.

[auron]

I made a thread the other day with a link where you can download all the "Holy books" as one pdf file:

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7044

[soglad]

I made a thread the other day with a link where you can download all the "Holy books" as one pdf file:

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7044

Sweet! If only I cared :(

There's nothing those books can teach me that I don't already know...

[cheeb]

Who would dare put the face'
of the prophet muhammid in their avatar,
Idolatory to the unbeleiver,
Put the Khabba up ,
And the stones/pillars that you throw 7 stones against,
allowed,
Idolatorious temple to moon
not alloud,
Its in the heart
not in a black stone
pboh

[ngawaka19]

his lordship, tinmenace, cheeb, I love you guys, brilliant.

terror, take it easy man, if your religion is what you say it is, it doesn't need any of us to acknowledge it as being valid and righteous. It would be able to stand as would you within its sturdiness, merely offer the information, lead us to the trough of water, but don't shove our heads in. We can see the water, we know its there, thanks for reminding us. But there's no need to wrestle our heads in the trough. That's not of God. One love, kindness, no judgement, peace, brother.

For me, I see one of the most important areas of life is the giving of life, the creation of life, the universe of knitting cells together along with a gateway for consciousness to arrive. A yielding supple harbour, that allows the ebb and flow of the creation of a being. Who on earth does this? Where does this physical miracle happen? If I may, within the womb of a woman.

For me, I find it very difficult upon the insistence, to read your religions words, when I am aware of the horrific crimes that are stated, practiced and supported towards life's sacred vessel...............woman.

There is and will never be any justification for the brutality mothers sisters and daughters are subjected to by the men of your religion and race. I'm not saying that this is all of you, of course it would not be, and truly is a holy man that does not or has not blood on his hands. These words are strong I know, but not as strong as the message that your religion gives to the outer world of aggression, control, disdain, abuse, violence towards woman.

Woman is life, judge that, abuse that, harm that, and you have an anti humanist society.

When the Islam religion has there own back yard in order and they are all good with the mothers, sisters, and daughters in that back yard. Then maybe I might look at the words.

Allah was just one of the many gods, another right hand man to creation

jah lives

.................................................. .............................................

[positive terror]

See the Text that is underlined like this? That's a hyperlink. You click on it

You even give orders.
I won't fall in your trap.
You live in a world of foolishness.
Me not :D

[ngawaka19]

terror read my post,, challenge me

[positive terror]

Who would dare put the face'
of the prophet muhammid in their avatar,
Idolatory to the unbeleiver,
Put the Khabba up ,
And the stones/pillars that you throw 7 stones against,
allowed,
Idolatorious temple to moon
not alloud,
Its in the heart
not in a black stone
pboh

Do you continue saying the same foolishness? Shameless ignorant

Kaaba - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[herebynightfall]

what a waste of a thread.

are all of these debates what we're striving for on this forum?

you all know everything that you know. that's a fact.

if others wont listen to you if you try and disprove them. well so be it. dont make a deal out of it. in the end. you still know what you know.

too out of it to write more

love always.

[cheeb]

Oh come on positive terror,
we like you,
you are one of the good guys,
and you look like you have a lot to offer,
;)

[tinmenace]

You even give orders.


Your aggression and dogma blinds you to the difference between sarcastic helpfulness and ORDERS.

But, it's ok, 'cos I know that English is not your first language....so it's prolly just a cultural misunderstanding.

[positive terror]

terror read my post,, challenge me

I have already responded to your question in the other post where we begin to speak, there I wrote down the woman's rights in Islam.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6728&page=2

[ngawaka19]

ka aroha bro. i would like to send you light so your path may be illuminated and I send you love from this peaceful place i sit.

strength and wisdom terror
ngawaka19

[cheeb]

Iam sorry brother'
I do not see in any David Icke book,
Where we should face black stone to worship'
I think you are on wrong website
idolator,
Take your idolatary
and woirship your demon elsewhere

[positive terror]

ka aroha bro. i would like to send you light so your path may be illuminated and I send you love from this peaceful place i sit.
strength and wisdom terror
ngawaka19

Thanks a lot ngawaka19

I will be double respectful with who respect me, and I will be an infuriated Lion with who attack me.

Respect.

[tinmenace]

I personally am not attacking you. I'm pointing out the discrepancies in your religion.

As with ALL religion, it's based on fear and punishment with dire consequences to those that don't submit and obey.

This is not freedom, dude. Seriously.

[seanx]

let's give some credit....

My own bet is that positive terror is probably around 19 -21
years old.

Although I don't agree with him ...he's gots lots of energy
and ambition.

There is FIRE in his heart.

And that's a great thing.

Also, he's definitely got plently of leadership potiential.

And in the future, wil probably be a leader and major influence
with his people.

So, positive terror - can I say maybe..just MAYBE ...there's a reason
WHY you're were attracted to this site.

If you're going to be a leader in the future.. maybe the ideas in this
forum are you.

Not a negation of islam but an awareness that there are other
equally, valid belief systems.


That ALL belief systems and ideas can peacefully exist - and that
everybody can be ALLOWED to believe as they wish.

[john white]

There are many great truths in the Qu'ran: it truly is a magnificent work of scripture. Islam is not the religion portrayed in the propoganda, and it is not the religion of extremists, as no Religion is defined by the abuses men make of it: Religion is a map to guide those who seek direction... and the why of the seeking is for the seeker to know. And Islam has kept the heart of original Christianity alive through the abuses of Rome. Its story is not always a happy one, especially the lamentable split into "Sunni" and "Shi'ite" factions, but nonetheless Islam cannot be denied its rightful recognistion as the preserver of great wisdom and great truth, and the champion of intellectual freedom and spiritual philosophy for centuries. And if no-one believes me about that, they'll just have to go and check that out for themselves: there is One God: and Mohammed was A Prophet

The Bible (and all scripture) is "flawed".... ....because humans are "flawed"

What do I mean by this? Well consider ourselves. We live dependant on our one rock in space being just the right distance from our Sun, and on the existence of a six mile thick layer of gas. We cannot travel the vastness of the Universe, but must peer out and guess and wonder. We are finite: we cannot read every book ever written in a lifetime, or even remotely close, or travel to all places we could travel to. We cannot know everything, we cannot be everything: we are creatures of extreme limitation

We are born, knowing nothing, no language, no pattern, no thought: from our immediate surrounding we start to absorb input with which we construct our "inner world", the model through which we filter all input. What thoughts can a man have, without the construction bricks of concepts to construct them? In terms of development of mind, all humans are wildly different from one another and none is perfect, for the perfection of mind is impossible

And yet, we are connected by our feelings: we all can feel, and feel the same feelings. this is our common bond that unites us all together: whoever we have persuaded ourselves to think we are, or to think another is (atheist/ theist/ humanist/ christian/ muslim/ jew/ buddhist/ communist and all the rest) because of our interpretation of our immediate environment from birth to maturity, whatever bits of data exist within the storage of our brains, we all have human blood pumping through our human hearts: we all have human forms derived, in their diversity, from our common human heritage

For some of us, the mind is enough. Something makes sense, it makes sense, anything which we cannot make sense of, is therefore non-sense. If our inner model has reached its limits of what it can conceive, we do not say "our model is limited": instead we say "this data does not fit, it must be false". Yet for others, we understand that whilst our mind is limited, our feeling is not. What difference does distance make to feel the suffering of a child who has been harmed? What need of a feeling to be rationalised in order to be felt? The rationalisation only comes after the feeling, not before

Consider all of the above, and then consider scripture:

Let us imagine that in the vastness of the universe there is an order of intelligence far far vaster than our own, intelligence without limit, infinite intelligence, occupying all places simultaneously (which is a reasonably fair description of what the spiritually inclined consider "God" to be). Let us imagine one was that intelligence: how then could one communicate effectively with a being as limited and flawed as man? Could man, with his ability only to construct sense from what the pattern of thoughts he knows, immediately and comprehensively grasps what it is to be infinite intelligence? Clearly, the likely answer here is No

But man can feel: and this capacity to feel is what could connect man to the infinite intelligence around him. With this connection, man can feel what it is to be man from the POV of infinite intelligence. He can feel what it is to be awareness much larger than himself... and he can then use the contents of his mind to construct a mental model that defines, imperfectly, as that is the only way man can define, those infinite feelings stimulated by from infinite intelligence

That is what all scripture is: the imperfect translation of infinite feeling, filtered through the cultural and historical context of the individual so connected and inspired

And what feelings are they, that can be inspired by infinite intelligence? What does infinite intelligence feel?

Infinite empathy. Infinite compassion. Infinite Love

Of course, we can reject this. We can focus on the imperfect map of scripture, the product of imperfect man, and say "these words are cruel: this phrase is hurtful: this concept is ignorant": and all these things are true. But we are critiquing man and his failings: not the touch with infinity that so inspired him

All scripture is flawed. The profound beauty lies in the fact that any has been attempted to be written at all

Perhaps we cannot conceive that there is such a thing as infinite intelligence. Perhaps we live in such a way that there is only our own intelligence, and that is all there is. This seems to me to be the same as saying "So! You claim to have had a divine revelation standing on that hill! Right I'm going to go and stand there too: and if I don't have an identical replicable divine inspiration, I'm going to declare you a fraud!"

And perhaps that’s why one of the common translations of communion with infinite intelligence ("God") is:

"Forgive them: they know not what they do"

[ngawaka19]

yep cool sean.

i understand john white, thanks

[positive terror]

let's give some credit....

My own bet is that positive terror is probably around 19 -21
years old.

Although I don't agree with him ...he's gots lots of energy
and ambition.

There is FIRE in his heart.

And that's a great thing.

Also, he's definitely got plently of leadership potiential.

And in the future, wil probably be a leader and major influence
with his people.

So, positive terror - can I say maybe..just MAYBE ...there's a reason
WHY you're were attracted to this site.

If you're going to be a leader in the future.. maybe the ideas in this
forum are you.

Not a negation of islam but an awareness that there are other
equally, valid belief systems.


That ALL belief systems and ideas can peacefully exist - and that
everybody can be ALLOWED to believe as they wish


This is one of the few places in the whole world where they put in evidence the illuminati and the freemasons, my biggest enemies.
I want to arrive to the heart of the illuminati and to know all their weak points, to put them my foot on their faces and their laws, and to put an end to the nwo.
I would like that the information that I post was of utility for the specialists of the matter. Maybe Chriss Everard doesn't always mention Islamic texts in its videos? Wake up guys, don't you still know that I want to make you stronger against the illuminati?
I was already leader, now I am beginning again, but this time it will take and it will be global.

[tinmenace]

But dude, you need to wake up! Religion is the biggest part of their control. Don't you know this?

[positive terror]

Yes, the religions of the superstitions, the religions of the lies, the religions that are in favor of the world new order.

Islam is against the world new order and he has the definitive solution to exterminate it.

Islam is now in the front, and the battle is bloody.

We will speak of love and peace when we put an end to the illuminati and the world new order, now they are times of defending our freedom.

[tinmenace]

Islam is NOT the only way to overcome the NWO, ok?

You're entitled to believe whatever you want, but seriously dude, this is not the way to rally support to win this "war".

There are many people that want to see the end to the tyrrany, and want to be truly free, but it cannot EVER be replaced with any religion or ideologies.

Yes, let's fight the NWO, but Islam should not replace it as the new order.

Alright?

[positive terror]

There are many great truths in the Qu'ran: it truly is a magnificent work of scripture. Islam is not the religion portrayed in the propoganda, and it is not the religion of extremists, as no Religion is defined by the abuses men make of it: Religion is a map to guide those who seek direction... and the why of the seeking is for the seeker to know. And Islam has kept the heart of original Christianity alive through the abuses of Rome. Its story is not always a happy one, especially the lamentable split into "Sunni" and "Shi'ite" factions, but nonetheless Islam cannot be denied its rightful recognistion as the preserver of great wisdom and great truth, and the champion of intellectual freedom and spiritual philosophy for centuries. And if no-one believes me about that, they'll just have to go and check that out for themselves: there is One God: and Mohammed was A Prophet


Thanks a lot john white , you are a breeze.

[positive terror]

Islam is NOT the only way to overcome the NWO, ok?

You're entitled to believe whatever you want, but seriously dude, this is not the way to rally support to win this "war".

There are many people that want to see the end to the tyrrany, and want to be truly free, but it cannot EVER be replaced with any religion or ideologies.

Yes, let's fight the NWO, but Islam should not replace it as the new order.

Alright?


Totally agree, in my Islamic country you would be a guest of honor and I would make you feel in my country better of what you feel in your own country. Exchanging what would be better for us and living in peace and harmony always having useful contacts . Yes, This is my dream.

[anoninnyc]

prophet mohammad was a pedophile. aisha............. pretty filthy and disgusting stuff. but what do you expect from such a vile character?

[devyn]

Hey PT, just wondering have you read any of David's books?

[positive terror]

Evidence that the Qur'aan is the Word of Allaah

Praise be to Allaah.

Praise be to Allaah Who has made good dear to you; we ask Him to increase you in guidance and faith, and to guide your parents to practise Islam and adhere to its rulings.

With regard to the Quraan and the proof that it is the word of Allaah, these are specious arguments which were put forward out of stubbornness and arrogance by the first kaafirs to whom the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was sent. Allaah refuted what they said in many ways, proving their words to be false and pointing out what was wrong with it. For example:

1- This Quraan is challenge from Allaah to mankind and the jinn to produce anything like it, but they were unable to. Then He challenged them to produce only ten soorahs like it, and they were unable to. Then He challenged them to produce something like the shortest soorah in the Quraan, and they could not do it, even though those who were being challenged were the most eloquent and well-spoken of mankind, and the Quraan was revealed in their language. Yet despite that they stated that they were completely incapable of doing that. This challenge has remained down throughout history, but not one person has been able to produce anything like it. If this were the word of a human being, some people would have been able to produce something like it or close to it. There is a great deal of evidence for this challenge in the Quraan, for example, the aayah (interpretation of the meaning):

Say: If the mankind and the jinn were together to produce the like of this Quraan, they could not produce the like thereof, even if they helped one another ;

[al-Israa 17:88]

Allaah says, challenging them to produce just ten soorahs:

Or they say, He (Prophet Muhammad) forged it (the Quraan). Say: Bring you then ten forged Soorah (chapters) like unto it, and call whomsoever you can, other than Allaah (to your help), if you speak the truth!

[Hood 11:13 interpretation of the meaning]

Allaah says, challenging them to produce just one soorah:

And if you (Arab pagans, Jews, and Christians) are in doubt concerning that which We have sent down (i.e. the Quraan) to Our slave (Muhammad), then produce a Soorah (chapter) of the like thereof and call your witnesses (supporters and helpers) besides Allaah, if you are truthful

[al-Baqarah 2:23 interpretation of the meaning]



2- No matter how much knowledge and understanding mankind attains, they will still inevitably make mistakes, forget things or fall short. If the Quraan were not the word of Allaah, there would be some contradictions and shortcomings in it, as Allaah says:

Had it been from other than Allaah, they would surely, have found therein many a contradiction

[al-Nisa 4:82 interpretation of the meaning]

But it is free from any shortcoming, error or contradiction; indeed, all of it is wisdom, mercy and justice. Whoever thinks that there is any contradiction in it, that is because of his diseased thinking and mistaken understanding; if he refers to the scholars they will explain to him what is correct and clear up the confusion for him, as Allaah says:

Verily, those who disbelieved in the Reminder (i.e. the Quraan) when it came to them (shall receive the punishment). And verily, it is an honourable well fortified respected Book (because it is Allaahs Speech, and He has protected it from corruption).

Falsehood cannot come to it from before it or behind it, (it is) sent down by the All Wise, Worthy of all praise (Allaah)”

[Fussilat 41:41-42 interpretation of the meaning]



3- Allaah has guaranteed to preserve this Quraan, and He says:

Verily, We, it is We Who have sent down the Dhikr (i.e. the Quraan) and surely, We will guard it (from corruption)”

[al-Hijr 15:9 interpretation of the meaning]

Every letter of it was transmitted by thousands from thousands down throughout history, and not one letter of it was altered. If any person tried to alter anything in it, or add something or take something away, then he would be exposed straight away, because Allaah is the One Who has guaranteed to preserve the Quraan, unlike the case with other divinely-revealed Books which Allaah revealed to the people of a particular Prophet only, and not to all of mankind, so He did not guarantee to preserve them, rather He delegated their preservation to the followers of the Prophets. But they did not preserve them, rather they introduced alterations and changes which distorted most of the meanings. The Quraan, on the other hand, was revealed by Allaah to all of mankind until the end of time, because the Message of Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) is the final message, so the Quraan is preserved in mens hearts and in written form, as is proven by the events of history. How many people have tried to change the aayahs of the Quraan and deceive the Muslims, but they were quickly exposed and their falsehood was discovered, even by Muslim children.

Another of the definitive signs that this Quraan was not produced by the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) but that it came revealed by Allaah to him is the following:

4- The great miracles which the Quraan contains of legislation, rulings, stories and beliefs, which could not be produced by any created being no matter how great his intelligence and level of understanding. No matter how hard people try to promulgate laws to regulate their lives, they can never succeed so long as they are far away from the teachings of the Quraan; the further away they are, the greater their rate of failure. This is something that has been proven by the kuffaar themselves.

5- Reports of matters of the unseen, both past and future, which no human being could speak of independently, no matter how great his knowledge, especially at that time which is regarded as primitive in terms of technology and modern tools. There are many things which had not been discovered yet, and which have only been discovered after lengthy and difficult exploration with the most modern equipment, but Allaah told us about them in the Quraan, and the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) mentioned them, fifteen centuries ago, such as the stages of embryonic development, the nature of the oceans, etc. These things have made some kaafirs state that this could only have come from God, as in the case of the development of the embryo:

Only 60 years ago, researchers confirmed that man does not come into existence all at once, but rather he passes through stages of development one after another. Only 60 years ago, science discovered this one Quraanic fact.

Shaykh al-Zandaani said, we met an American professor, one of the greatest American scientists, whose name was Professor Marshall Johnson, and we told him that it says in the Qur’aan that man is created in stages. When he heard this, he was sitting down, but he stood up and said, Stages? We said, That was in the seventh century CE! This Book came and said, man was created in stages. He said, That is impossible, impossible We told him, Why do you say that? This Book says (interpretation of the meaning):

He creates you in the wombs of your mothers, creation after creation in three veils of darkness

[al-Zumar 39:6]

What is the matter with you, that [you fear not Allaah (His punishment), and] you hope not for reward (from Allaah or you believe not in His Oneness).

While He has created you in (different) stages

[Nooh 71:14]

Then he sat back down on his chair and after a few moments he said, There are only three possibilities. The first is that Muhammad had a huge microscope through which he managed to study these things and he knew things that the people did not know, and he said these things. The second is that this happened by accident, it was a coincidence. The third is that he was a Messenger from God. We said, With regard to the first idea, that he had a microscope and other equipment, you know that a microscope needs lenses, and lenses need glass and technical expertise and other equipment. Some of this information can only be discovered with an electron microscope which needs electricity, and electricity needs knowledge which should have been acquired by an earlier generation. It is not possible for this knowledge to have been acquired all at once in a single generation; the previous generation would have had to strive hard in developing science and transmitting it to the next generation, and so on. But for this to be the work of one man, with no one coming before him or after him, either in his own land or the neighbouring lands for the Romans, Persians and Arabs were ignorant and had no such equipment for one man to have all these instruments and tools which he did not pass on to anyone else this is not possible. He said, Thats right, it would be very difficult. We said, And for it to have been an accident or coincidence, what would you think if we said that the Quraan did not mention this fact only in one verse but in several verses, and that it did not refer to it in general terms but that it gave details of every stage, saying that in the first stage such and such happens, in the second stage such and such happens, in the third stage and so on. Could that be a coincidence? When we explained to him all the details of those stages, he said, It is wrong to say that this is an accident! This is well-founded knowledge. We said, Then how do you explain it? He said, There is no explanation except that this is revelation from above! nbsp;

With regard to the many statements in the Quraan concerning the sea, some of these facts were not discovered until very recently, and many of them are still unknown. For example, these facts were discovered after hundreds of marine stations had been set up, and after images had been taken by satellites. The one who said this was Professor Schroeder, one of the greatest oceanographers in West Germany. He used to say that if science advanced, religion would have to retreat. But when he heard the translation of the verses of the Quraan, he was stunned and said, These could not be the words of a human being. And Professor Dorjaro, a professor of oceanography, told us of the latest developments on science, when he heard the aayah:

Or (the state of a disbeliever) is like the darkness in a vast deep sea, overwhelmed with waves topped by waves, topped by dark clouds, (layers of) darkness upon darkness: if a man stretches out his hand, he can hardly see it! And he for whom Allaah has not appointed light, for him there is no light

[al-Noor 24:40 interpretation of the meaning]

He said, In the past, man could not dive to a depth of more than twenty meters because he had no special equipment. But now we can dive to the bottom of the ocean, using modern equipment, and we find intense darkness at a depth of two hundred meters. The aayah says a vast deep sea . The discoveries in the depths of the sea give us an understanding of the aayah, (layers of) darkness upon darkness. It is known that there are seven colours in the spectrum, including red, yellow, blue, green, orange, etc. When we dive down into the depths of the ocean, these colours disappear one after another, and the disappearance of each colour results in more darkness. Red disappears first, then orange, then yellow the last colour to disappear is blue, at a depth of two hundred meters. Each colour that disappears adds to the darkness until it reaches total darkness. With regard to the phrase waves topped by waves, it has been proven scientifically that there is a separation between the upper and lower parts of the ocean, and that this separation is filled with waves, as if there are waves on the edge of the dark, lower portion of the sea, which we do not see, and there are waves on the shores of the sea, which we do see. So it is as if there are waves above waves. This is a confirmed scientific fact, hence Professor Dorjaro said concerning these Quraanic verses, that this cannot be human knowledge.

(See al-Adillah al-Maadiyyah ala Wujood-Allaah by Muhammad Mitwalli al-Sharaawi)

And there are very many such examples

6- In the Quraan there are some aayahs which rebuke the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and mention some things to which Allaah drew his attention. Some of them may have been embarrassing for the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). But if this Quraan had come from the Messenger of Allaah, there would have been no need for this; if he were to conceal any part of the Quraan, he would have concealed some of these verses which contained rebukes or drew his attention to certain matters which he should not have done, such as the verse in which Allaah says to His Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him):

But you did hide in yourself (i.e. what Allaah has already made known to you that He will give her to you in marriage) that which Allaah will make manifest, you did fear the people (i.e., their saying that Muhammad married the divorced wife of his manumitted slave) whereas Allaah had a better right that you should fear Him

[al-Ahzaab 33:37 interpretation of the meaning]

After this, can there be any doubt left in the mind of any intelligent person that this Quraan is the word of Allaah, and that the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) conveyed that which was revealed to him in full?

Moreover, we tell this person, try it for yourself, read a sound translation of the Quraan and use your mind to ponder these rules and regulations. There is no doubt that any intelligent person who has the power of discernment will see a great difference between these words (of Allaah) and the words of any person on the face of the earth.

With regard to your relationship with this young man, this noble religion forbids women to mix with men for a great and wise reason. So you have to stop meeting him and break off your relationship with him until he becomes Muslim, in which case you can marry him in a proper Islamic marriage. In the answer to Question no. 1200 you will find an explanation of the rulings on a Muslim woman mixing with non-mahram men.

With regard to your love for him, this is a test from Allaah will you put your love of Allaah before your love for one of His creation, or will you put your love for this person before the love of your almighty Lord Who has forbidden such things. Note that whoever gives up something for the sake of Allaah, Allaah will compensate him with something better than that, the first of which is that you will find, in sha Allah, that Allaah will compensate you with comfort and tranquility in loving Him and striving to draw closer to Allaah by means of that which He loves; so your love for your Lord and your attachment to Him will increase, and your attachment to all of His creation will become weaker. In the answer to Question no. 10254 you will find some solutions to this problem.

With regard to the ruling on a Muslim woman marrying a kaafir man, this is haraam according to scholarly consensus, indeed it is one of the major immoral actions which Allaah has forbidden in the Quraan. In the answer to Question no. 8396 and 1825 you will find a detailed response to this question.

We advise you to be patient and to put up with difficulties, and to keep far away from everything that may cause you to do things that would anger your Lord. Note that Allaah has made this world a place of trial and testing for His believing slaves; whoever is patient and refrains from following his desries, seeking the pleasure of Allaah, Allaah will compensate him with Paradise where He will bestow upon him all kinds of delight which cannot be compared with the fleeting worldly pleasures that he sacrificed. This is in addition to the happiness and tranquility that he will find in his heart when he obeys his Lord.

Perhaps if he sees how you adhere to your religion and avoid meeting him and sitting with him despite your love for him, he will come to realize the greatness of this religion which makes its followers prepared to sacrifice all that they love in order to please their Lord, and that they hope for a great reward from their Lord for their patience in obeying Him and keeping away from that which He has forbidden and perhaps that will be the cause of his becoming Muslim.

We ask Allaah to guide him to Islam, and to make goodness easy for you, and to keep all evil away from you Ameen.

Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid

[anoninnyc]

please explain to me why your prophet married a child.

[positive terror]

please explain to me why your prophet married a child.

Of Course I do...


The reason why the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) married ‘Aa’ishah despite the age difference

Answer:
Praise be to Allaah.

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) married ‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her) after he married Sawdah bint Zam’ah (may Allaah be pleased with her). She – ‘Aa’ishah – was the only virgin whom he (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) married. And he consummated the marriage with her when she was nine years old.

Among her virtues was the fact that the Revelation did not descend when he under one cover with any of his wives other than her. She was one of the dearest of all people to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), and news of her innocence was revealed from above the seven heavens. She was one of the most knowledgeable of his wives, and one of the most knowledgeable women of the ummah as a whole. The senior companions of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) used to refer to her opinion and consult her.

With regard to the story of her marriage, the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) had grieved over the death of the Mother of the Believers Khadeejah, who had supported him and stood by his side, and he called the year in which she died The Year of Sorrow. Then he (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) married Sawdah, who was an older woman and was not very beautiful; rather he married her to console her after her husband had died and she stayed among mushrik people. Four years later the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) married ‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her), and he was over fifty. Perhaps the reasons for the marriage were as follows:

1 – He saw a dream about marrying her. It is proven in al-Bukhaari from the hadeeth of ‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her) that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said to her: “You were shown to me twice in a dream. I saw that you were wrapped in a piece of silk, and it was said, ‘This is your wife.’ I uncovered her and saw that it was you. I said, ‘If this is from Allaah then it will come to pass.’” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, no. 3682). As to whether this is a prophetic vision as it appears to be, or a regular dream that may be subject to interpretation, there was a difference of opinion among the scholars, as mentioned by al-Haafiz in Fath al-Baari, 9/181.

2 – The characteristics of intelligence and smartness that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) had noticed in ‘Aa’ishah even as a small child, so he wanted to marry her so that she would be more able than others to transmit reports of what he did and said. In fact, as stated above, she was a reference point for the Sahaabah (may Allaah be pleased with them) with regard to their affairs and rulings.

3 – The love of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) for her father Abu Bakr (may Allaah be pleased with him), and the persecution that Abu Bakr (may Allaah be pleased with him) had suffered for the sake of the call of truth, which he bore with patience. He was the strongest of people in faith and the most sincere in certain faith, after the Prophets.

It may be noted that among his wives were those who were young and old, the daughter of his sworn enemy, the daughter of his closest friend. One of them occupied herself with raising orphans, another distinguished herself from others by fasting and praying qiyaam a great deal… They represented all kinds of people, through whom the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was able to set out a way for the Muslims showing how to deal properly with all kinds of people. [See al-Seerah al-Nabawiyyah fi Daw’ al-Masaadir al-Asliyyah, p. 711].

With regard to the issue of her being young and your being confused about that, you should note that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) grew up in a hot country, the Arabian Peninsula. Usually in hot countries adolescence comes early and people marry early. This is how the people of Arabia were until recently. Moreover, women vary greatly in their development and their physical readiness for marriage.

If you think – may Allaah guide you – that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) did not marry any virgin other than ‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her), and that all his other wives had been previously married, this will refute the notion spread by many hostile sources, that the basic motive behind the Prophet’s marriages was physical desire and enjoyment of women, because if that was his intention he would have chosen only those who were virgins and beautiful etc.

Such slanders against the Prophet of Mercy (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) by kaafirs and others of their ilk, are indicative of their inability to find fault with the law and religion that he brought from Allaah, so they try to find ways to criticize Islam with regard to issues that are not related to sharee’ah.

And Allaah is the Source of strength. May Allaah send blessings and peace upon our Prophet Muhammad and his family and companions.

For more information see Zaad al-Ma’aad, 1/106.

Islam Q&A

I hope you undrstand.

[anoninnyc]

Such slanders against the Prophet of Mercy (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) by kaafirs and others of their ilk, are indicative of their inability to find fault with the law and religion that he brought from Allaah, so they try to find ways to criticize Islam with regard to issues that are not related to sharee’ah.


Why is a woman's testimony worth half of that of a man?

You have already established that it is okay of your prophet to have sex with a nine year old because he dreamed about it, he loved the girl's father, she was really smart and in hot climates girls reach puberty earlier. These arguments are ludicrous, I need not even point out the idiocy as it is self-evident.

[positive terror]

anoninnyc You think that because you have never left your city

you don't know anything about the rest of the world and the different cultures, you think that everybody should be as you!!

you have a very limited mind

[anoninnyc]

anoninnyc You think that because you have never left your city

you don't know anything about the rest of the world and the different cultures, you think that everybody should be as you!!

you have a very limited mind

ad hominem attacks clearly show that you have no valid argument.

For your information I have traveled extensively, lived in multiple countries and was raised Muslim.

I do not think that everybody should be like me, but I do question religion in general, and Islam in particular. As a woman I find many aspects of it repugnant.

[positive terror]

ad hominem attacks clearly show that you have no valid argument.

For your information I have traveled extensively, lived in multiple countries and was raised Muslim.

I do not think that everybody should be like me, but I do question religion in general, and Islam in particular. As a woman I find many aspects of it repugnant.

Do you prefer them (in your enviroment) to treat you like a prostitute and that when it appear you the first wrinkle everything they hate you?

[anoninnyc]

No, I find that repugnant as well. I find the Western culture of easy sex, plastic surgery, youth and beauty obesession and general idiocy to be extremely misogynistic. But why must I choose one form of degradation over the other?

[positive terror]

Why is a woman's testimony worth half of that of a man?


Why is the witness of two women considered to be equal to the testimony of one man?

Answer:

Praise be to Allaah.

What is meant by witness or testimony is something by which the thing testified may be proven and known to be true and correct, so it is information about it. With regard to the witness of two women being equal to the testimony of one man. Allaah has mentioned the wisdom behind specifying the number of two as being that a woman may forget or get confused, so the other woman can remind her, as He said:

“…And get two witnesses out of your own men. And if there are not two men (available), then a man and two women, such as you agree for witnesses, so that if one of them (two women) errs, the other can remind her…”

[al-Baqarah 2:282 – interpretation of the meaning]

With regard to the phrase, “that if one of them (two women) errs”, Ibn Katheer said: “This means, the two women, if one of them forgets the testimony, then ‘the other can remind her’, i.e., she can remind her about the matter concerning which testimony is being given.” (Tafseer Ibn Katheer, part 1, p. 724)

Allaah has commanded the testimony of two women so as to be sure that they remember, because the mind and memory of two women takes the place of the mind and memory of one man. (See I’laam al-Muwaqqa’een, part 1, p. 75).

This does not mean that a woman does not understand or that she cannot remember things, but she is weaker than man in these aspects – usually. Scientific and specialized studies have shown that men’s minds are more perfect than those of women, and reality and experience bear witness to that. The books of knowledge are the best witness to that; the knowledge which has been transmitted by men and the ahaadeeth which have been memorized by men far outnumber those which have come via women.

This has to do with gender, i.e., the gender of men is more perfect than the gender of women. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allaah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient (to Allaah and to their husbands), and guard in the husband’s absence what Allaah orders them to guard (e.g. their chastity and their husband’s property)”

[al-Nisaa’ 4:34]

Nevertheless, there are some women who are far superior to men in their reason and insight, but they are few, and the ruling is based on the majority and the usual cases.

A woman may compensate for her weaknesses by striving hard, and surpass men when they are negligent. Hence we find that in some colleges, female students surpass male students because of their greater efforts and their keenness to succeed when many of the male students are negligent and are not eager to learn. A man may also excel over a woman in some fields that are basically hers, so we find that some of the most skilled chefs, tailors, cosmeticians and obstetricians on the international level are men. The point is that usually – and no wise person would dispute this – most of the prominent people in the religious sciences, such as fiqh, hadeeth, tafseer, ‘aqeedah and preaching, and in the worldly sciences such as medicine, astronomy, engineering, physics, chemistry, etc. are men.

If we think about the western societies in which men and women are regarded as equal in all aspects, we will find that despite that men still prevail. Still, Allaah has given women pre-eminence and has favoured them over men in some aspects, such as caring for children, and showing patience, love and compassion towards them, and managing the home. Hence the sharee’ah gives custody to them, for the mother is the first school, from which the future men, leaders of the world and scholars of the ummah graduate. What virtue can be greater than this?

Islam encourages special care for the mother and her children, and enjoins upon children to honour their mother, treat her kindly and give her preferential treatment above the father. It was narrated that Abu Hurayrah said: “A man said, ‘O Messenger of Allaah, who among the people is most deserving of my good companionship?’ He said, Your mother, then your mother, then your mother, then your father, then those who are closest in order of closeness.’” (Narrated by Muslim, 2548). What greater honour can there be than this?

So let everyone work in his or her field of specialization. Men should not interfere in pregnancy and breastfeeding, and women should not be involved in jihad, fighting the enemy, or holding the positions of khaleefah or ruler. Whatever is permitted to both of them should be done within the guidelines of sharee’ah, such as not allowing free mixing of the sexes and not neglecting other duties such as those of husbands and wives.

And Allaah is the Source of strength.

[anoninnyc]

to say that the mind and the memory of women is weaker than that of men generally is offensive and ignorant.

[positive terror]

to say that the mind and the memory of women is weaker than that of men generally is offensive and ignorant.

I am Muslim, and I tell you with all my heart, for my there is not anything more beautiful and important for the man that the woman.

For my ,as man, a woman is better than all the men of the world, cause I need her, I need her sweetness, her words, her look, her smile , her beautiful body, her support and her accompaniment....

The man is NOTHING without the woman

Islam says it.....and I tell it to you for experience.

[positive terror]

anoninnyc , I know its too much , but please read it.

Rights of women in Islam


Praise be to Allaah.

Islam honours women greatly. It honours women as mothers who must be respected, obeyed and treated with kindness. Pleasing one's mother is regarded as part of pleasing Allaah. Islam tells us that Paradise lies at the mother’s feet, i.e. that the best way to reach Paradise is through one's mother. And Islam forbids disobeying one’s mother or making her angry, even by saying a mild word of disrespect. The mother’s rights are greater than those of the father, and the duty to take care of her grows greater as the mother grows older and weaker. All of that is mentioned in many texts of the Qur'aan and Sunnah.

For example, Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And We have enjoined on man to be dutiful and kind to his parents”

[al-Ahqaaf 46:15]

“And your Lord has decreed that you worship none but Him. And that you be dutiful to your parents. If one of them or both of them attain old age in your life, say not to them a word of disrespect, nor shout at them but address them in terms of honour.

24. And lower unto them the wing of submission and humility through mercy, and say: ‘My Lord! Bestow on them Your Mercy as they did bring me up when I was young’”

[al-Isra’ 17:23, 24]

Ibn Maajah (2781) narrated that Mu’aawiyah ibn Jaahimiah al-Sulami (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: I came to the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and said: O Messenger of Allaah, I want to go for jihad with you, seeking thereby the Face of Allaah and the Hereafter. He said, “Woe to you! Is your mother still alive?” I said, Yes. He said, “Go back and honour her.” Then I approached him from the other side and said: O Messenger of Allaah, I want to go for jihad with you, seeking thereby the Face of Allaah and the Hereafter. He said, “Woe to you! Is your mother still alive?” I said, Yes. He said, “Go back and honour her.” Then I approached him from in front and said, O Messenger of Allaah, I want to go for jihad with you, seeking thereby the Face of Allaah and the Hereafter. He said, “Woe to you! Is your mother still alive?” I said, Yes. He said, “Go back and honour her (lit. stay by her feet), for there is Paradise.”

Classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Sunan Ibn Maajah. It was also narrated by al-Nasaa’i with the words: “Stay with her for Paradise is beneath her feet.”

Al-Bukhaari (5971) and Muslim (2548) narrated that Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: A man came to the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and said: “O Messenger of Allaah, who is most deserving of my good company?” He said: “Your mother.” He said: “Then who?” He said: “Your mother.” He said: “Then who?” He said: “Your mother.” He said: “Then who?” He said: “Then your father.”

And there are other texts which we do not have room to mention here.

One of the rights which Islam gives to the mother is that her son should spend on her if she needs that support, so long as he is able and can afford it. Hence for many centuries it was unheard of among the people of Islam for a mother to be left in an old-people’s home or for a son to kick her out of the house, or for her sons to refuse to spend on her, or for her to need to work in order to eat and drink if her sons were present.

Islam also honours women as wives. Islam urges the husband to treat his wife in a good and kind manner, and says that the wife has rights over the husband like his rights over her, except that he has a degree over her, because of his responsibility of spending and taking care of the family’s affairs. Islam states that the best of the Muslim men is the one who treats his wife in the best manner, and the man is forbidden to take his wife’s money without her consent. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“and live with them honourably”

[al-Nisa’ 4:19]

“And they (women) have rights (over their husbands as regards living expenses) similar (to those of their husbands) over them (as regards obedience and respect) to what is reasonable, but men have a degree (of responsibility) over them. And Allaah is All-Mighty, All-Wise”

[al-Baqarah 2:228]

And the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “I urge you to treat women well.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 331; Muslim, 1468.

And the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The best of you is the one who is best to his wife, and I am the best of you to my wives.” Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 3895; Ibn Maajah, 1977; classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Tirmidhi.

And Islam honours women as daughters, and encourages us to raise them well and educate them. Islam states that raising daughters will bring a great reward. For example, the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever takes care of two girls until they reach adulthood, he and I will come like this on the Day of Resurrection,” and he held his fingers together. Narrated by Muslim, 2631.

Ibn Maajah (3669) narrated that ‘Uqbah ibn ‘Aamir (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: I heard the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say: “Whoever has three daughters and is patient towards them, and feeds them, gives them to drink and clothes them from his riches, they will be a shield for him from the Fire on the Day of Resurrection.” Classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Ibn Maajah.

Islam honours woman as sisters and as aunts. Islam enjoins upholding the ties of kinship and forbids severing those ties in many texts. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “O people! Spread (the greeting of) salaam, offer food (to the needy), uphold the ties of kinship, and pray at night when people are sleeping, and you will enter Paradise in peace.” Narrated by Ibn Maajah, 3251; classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Ibn Maajah.

Al-Bukhaari (5988) narrated that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Allaah, may He be exalted, said to the ties of kinship: ‘Whoever upholds you, I will support him, and whoever breaks you, I will cut him off.’”

All of these qualities may co-exist in a single woman: she may be a wife, a daughter, a mother, a sister, an aunt, so she may be honoured in all these ways.

To conclude: Islam raised the status of women, and made them equal with men in most rulings. So women, like men, are commanded to believe in Allaah and to worship Him. And women are made equal to men in terms of reward in the Hereafter. Women have the right to express themselves, to give sincere advice, to enjoin what is good and forbid what is evil, and to call people to Allaah. Women have the right to own property, to buy and sell, to inherit, to give charity and to give gifts. It is not permissible for anyone to take a woman’s wealth without her consent. Women have the right to a decent life, without facing aggression or being wronged. Women have the right to be educated; in fact it is obligatory to teach them what they need to know about their religion.

Anyone who compares the rights of women in Islam with their situation during the Jaahiliyyah or in other civilizations will understand that what we are saying is true. In fact we are certain that women are given the greatest honour in Islam.

There is no need for us to mention the situation of women in Greek, Persian or Jewish society, but even Christian societies had a bad attitude towards women. The theologians even gathered at the Council of Macon to discuss whether woman was merely a body or a body with a soul. They thought it most likely that women did not have a soul that could be saved, and they made an exception only in the case of Mary (Maryam – peace be upon her).

The French held a conference in 586 CE to discuss whether women had souls or not, and if they had souls, were these souls animal or human? In the end, they decided that they were human! But they were created to serve men only.

During the time of Henry VIII, the English Parliament issued a decree forbidding women to read the New Testament because they were regarded as impure.

Until 1805, English law allowed a man to sell his wife, and set a wife’s price at six pennies.

In the modern age, women were kicked out of the house at the age of eighteen so that they could start working to earn a bite to eat. If a woman wanted to stay in the house, she had to pay her parents rent for her room and pay for her food and laundry.

See ‘Awdat al-Hijaab, 2/47-56.

How can this compare to Islam which enjoins honouring and kind treatment of women, and spending on them?

Secondly:

With regard to the changes in these rights throughout the ages, the basic principles have not changed, but with regard to the application of these principles, there can be no doubt that during the golden age of Islam, the Muslims applied the sharee’ah of their Lord more, and the rulings of this sharee’ah include honouring one’s mother and treating one’s wife, daughter, sister and women in general in a kind manner. The weaker religious commitment grew, the more these rights were neglected, but until the Day of Resurrection there will continue to be a group who adheres to their religion and applies the sharee’ah of their Lord. These are the people who honour women the most and grant them their rights.

Despite the weakness of religious commitment among many Muslims nowadays, women still enjoy a high status, whether as daughters, wives or sisters, whilst we acknowledge that there are shortcomings, wrongdoing and neglect of women’s rights among some people, but each one will be answerable for himself.

[revolution 9]

Remember when that school burned down and all the girls/women died because the Muslims outside wouldn't go in and save them because then they'd see them improperly attired? Pretty awesome and equal.

[positive terror]

Remember when that school burned down and all the girls/women died because the Muslims outside wouldn't go in and save them because then they'd see them improperly attired? Pretty awesome and equal.

where??, when?? you self dont believe this big lie, only bla bla

Please!!!

[lostinstrangeworld]

I haven't read the Quoran yet. Does it teach that we should fear God and that He will punish us?

[revolution 9]

where??, when?? you self dont believe this big lie, only bla bla

Please!!!

Here asshole, it took all of 30 seconds to find the link with a Google search:

Saudi police 'stopped' fire rescue (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1874471.stm)

"One witness said he saw three policemen "beating young girls to prevent them from leaving the school because they were not wearing the abaya"."

[positive terror]

Here SIR, it took all of 30 seconds to find the link with a Google search:

Saudi police 'stopped' fire rescue (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1874471.stm)

"One witness said he saw three policemen "beating young girls to prevent them from leaving the school because they were not wearing the abaya"."

The police of saudi arabia is not different from that of new york, all are part of the world new order....
If the American government has been able to kill thousands of his citizens', his best ally would make the same thing .. in this case saudi arabia have nothing to do with the REAL Islam.
Continue looking for news of the past, I tell you that Islam is not represented by those idiots, Islam is Quran and Sunna.

[positive terror]

I haven't read the Quoran yet. Does it teach that we should fear God and that He will punish us?

Praise be to Allaah.

Undoubtedly committing sin is one of the causes of Allaah’s wrath and of loss of blessing and withholding of rain and being overtaken by the enemy. Allaah says (interpretation of the meanings):

“And indeed We punished the people of Fir‘awn (Pharaoh) with years of drought and shortness of fruits (crops), that they might remember (take heed)”

[al-A’raaf 7:130]

“So We punished each (of them) for his sins, of them were some on whom We sent Haasib (a violent wind with shower of stones) [as on the people of Loot (Lot)], and of them were some who were overtaken by As-Sayhah [torment — awful cry, (as Thamood or Shu‘ayb’s people)], and of them were some whom We caused the earth to swallow [as Qaaroon (Korah)], and of them were some whom We drowned [as the people of Nooh (Noah), or Fir‘awn (Pharaoh) and his people]. It was not Allaah Who wronged them, but they wronged themselves”

[al-‘Ankaboot 29:40]

There are many similar aayahs. And it was narrated in a saheeh hadeeth that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “A person may be deprived of provision because of sins that he commits.” So each Muslim man and woman must beware of sin, and must repent from sins that they have committed in the past, whilst also thinking positively about Allaah, hoping for His forgiveness and fearing His wrath and punishment. Allaah says in His Holy Book about His righteous slaves:

“Verily, they used to hasten on to do good deeds, and they used to call on Us with hope and fear, and used to humble themselves before Us”

[al-Anbiya’ 21:90 – interpretation of the meaning]

And Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Those whom they call upon [like ‘Eesa (Jesus) - son of Maryam (Mary), ‘Uzayr (Ezra), angel and others] desire (for themselves) means of access to their Lord (Allaah), as to which of them should be the nearest; and they [‘Eesa (Jesus), ‘Uzayr (Ezra), angels and others] hope for His Mercy and fear His Torment. Verily, the Torment of your Lord is (something) to be afraid of!”

[al-Isra’ 17:57]

“The believers, men and women, are Awliyaa’ (helpers, supporters, friends, protectors) of one another; they enjoin (on the people) Al-Ma‘roof (i.e. Islamic Monotheism and all that Islam orders one to do), and forbid (people) from Al-Munkar (i.e. polytheism and disbelief of all kinds, and all that Islam has forbidden); they perform As-Salaah (Iqaamat-as-Salaah), and give the Zakaah, and obey Allaah and His Messenger. Allaah will have His Mercy on them. Surely, Allaah is All-Mighty, All-Wise”

[al-Tawbah 9:71]

It is prescribed, however, for Muslim men and women also to pursue the means that Allaah has permitted, placing their hope in Him and fearing Him, pursuing the means whilst also putting their trust in Allaah and depending on Him to bring what they hope for and keep them safe from what they fear, for He is the Ever-Responsive and Most Generous who says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And whosoever fears Allaah and keeps his duty to Him, He will make a way for him to get out (from every difficulty).

And He will provide him from (sources) he never could imagine”
[al-Talaaq 65:2-3]

“and whosoever fears Allaah and keeps his duty to Him, He will make his matter easy for him”

[al-Talaaq 65:4]

“And all of you beg Allaah to forgive you all, O believers, that you may be successful”[al-Noor 24:31]

So you must repent to Allaah from whatever sins you have committed in the past and be steadfast in obeying Allaah, whilst thinking positively of Him and fearing His wrath. Be of good cheer and have the hope of a good end

[lostinstrangeworld]

A friend sent this. It is an excerpt from 'The Daily Om':

Real Love

"Real love is identifiable by the way it makes us feel. *Love should feel good. There is a peaceful quality to an authentic experience of love that penetrates to our core, touching a part of ourselves that has always been there. True love activates this inner being, filling us with warmth and light. An authentic experience of love takes us as we *Are, no changes required. True love never makes us feel needy or lacking or anxious. Instead, *True love empowers us with its implicit message that we are, always have been, and always will be, made of *Love."
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h188/SummerRain777/SacredMarriage.jpg

[anoninnyc]

Response from Persian King To: Omar, "Khalifat of Islam Army". - YouTube

letter from Yazdgird 3(632 AD - 651 AD)
The original copy of this letter from Yazdgird III (632 AD - 651 AD) is in Museum of London, We hope one day we can buy it from British who originally took it from us! It is our patriotic duty to poses this valuable asset. The date in which this letter has been written is after the Battle of Ghadesiyeh. As you know, a natural disaster, a massive sand storm blown on Persian troops & practically blinded them & took their battle vision. the sand storm directly blown on their front & caused the loss of this battle. Later on Muslim Khalif mentioned that Allah sent the massive Sand Storm in Persian Faces, so they lost the battle, Allah was the protector of Muslim against Ajams (what Arabs call Persians).
Battle of Ghadesiyeh did not just cost us a great loss due to a natural disaster, yet it also cost us the life of our greatest Persian Hero, Commander in Chief of Persian Army, General Arteshbod "Rostam-e Farokhzad." Tazis killed Rostam in this battle. Rostam & his squad fought until the last drop of their blood & at the end even after he lost his sword, he fought Arabs with bare hand & his shield, Rostam & his selected squad killed as many Tazi as they could, yet finally it was destiny for our hero to die for Iran. Tazi savages rushed & attacked him in all directions & killed that great Persian soul, Ahura Bless his soul, Rostam was the symbol of Persian Empire & Iranian Glory.

[revolution 9]

I'm calling your dumb ass out on this:

My statement:

"Remember when that school burned down and all the girls/women died because the Muslims outside wouldn't go in and save them because then they'd see them improperly attired? Pretty awesome and equal."

Your reply:

"where??, when?? you self dont believe this big lie, only bla bla

Please!!!"

You call me a liar and insult my intelligence with your flippish remarks, and then I post a LINK PROVING I WASN'T LYING. And you respond with this lame attempt to sidestep the fact that you'r a liar:

"The police of saudi arabia is not different from that of new york, all are part of the world new order....
If the American government has been able to kill thousands of his citizens', his best ally would make the same thing .. in this case saudi arabia have nothing to do with the REAL Islam.
Continue looking for news of the past, I tell you that Islam is not represented by those idiots, Islam is Quran and Sunna."

Oh, I see. So now it DID happen, but only because of the corrupt government. It doesn't change the fact that you're so lazy and disrespectful that you couldn't take 30 seconds using Google to verify whether or not the story was true before attacking me, nor the fact that the original point wasn't who was reponsible, but the fact that it fucking happened. Know your facts before you question someone's honesty, and if you do fuck up, be a man and admit it instead of trying to bullshit your way out of a statement issue. Or are Muslims not taught any sort of manners at all?

[anoninnyc]

chill out revolution 9. he is obviously brainwashed by islam. islam means submission to god. it does not mean being able to think in a rational and clear manner.

[soglad]

Guys, don't turn this into another addition to the already overflowing rant room. Positive Terror, if you really knew anything about Islam or yourself you'd answer questions in your own words, instead of copying and pasting all the time.

Dav.

[positive terror]

chill out revolution 9. he is obviously brainwashed by islam. islam means submission to god. it does not mean being able to think in a rational and clear manner.

This is wrong. We say: you are not free to disobey Allaah. If you disobey Allaah, it means that you are coming out of “enslavement” to Allaah, as you describe ‘uboodiyah (total submission to Allaah), and instead you are entering into enslavement to Satan and your desires.

Two choices : Or you are slave of Allah or you are slave of Satan.

[soglad]

How can you say that since we don't believe in Allah that we must either instantly be a worker of satan, that's a completely unjust accusation!

Or am I reading that wrong?

[positive terror]

How can you say that since we don't believe in Allah that we must either instantly be a worker of satan, that's a completely unjust accusation!

Or am I reading that wrong?

I am not saying that you are a satanist if you don't follow Islam, I am saying that if one follows his own desires he is paying attention to the devil, if you make something bad it is that you follow the order of satán.
We all follow the orders of satan when we lie, we deceive, we hit..etc.... when you make a bad action it is that you allowed yourself to be convinced by satán.

[soglad]

I am not saying that you are a satanist if you don't follow Islam, I am saying that if one follows his own desires he is paying attention to the devil, if you make something bad it is that you follow the order of satán.
We all follow the orders of satan when we lie, we deceive, we hit..etc.... when you make a bad action it is that you allowed yourself to be convinced by satán.

Read what you've just writen. You said "I am not saying that you are a satanist if you don't follow Islam, I am saying that if one follows his own desires he is paying attention to the devil".......

[positive terror]

Read what you've just writen. You said "I am not saying that you are a satanist if you don't follow Islam, I am saying that if one follows his own desires he is paying attention to the devil".......

Yes, you dont catch it???????

[soglad]

Yes, you dont catch it???????

No, I'm afraid you've just proven my point.

[positive terror]

No, I'm afraid you've just proven my point.

I will respond you with a question:

Was Adam a satanist when it obeyed satan?

[vitab17]

Thanks a lot ngawaka19

I will be double respectful with who respect me, and I will be an infuriated Lion with who attack me.

Respect.
listen you scrapped dick,infuriated lions only live in jungles if they come out they are shot dead.get it?if not then go fuck yourself and stop posting your nonsense.no one is interested in religion here.

[brio313]

listen you scrapped dick,infuriated lions only live in jungles if they come out they are shot dead.get it?if not then go fuck yourself and stop posting your nonsense.no one is interested in religion here.

Goodness gracious, it's rejuvenating to observe it still exists at a small degree in these forums at least........

Isn't this the religion forum? If no one is interested in religion why is there a religion forum?

Why did "positive terror" got banned by the way?
I haven't read all his posts or threads though, (this thread) but in my opinion your burst at him was way more aggresive than he ever was.

It's sad to see people so distanced and detached to each other.....
Without humility, peace, compassion, kindness and forgiveness, how may we be able to find true love and connect as souls?

Is this the way we threat our guest from a different culture&view even if there are extensive disagreements?

Anyway,
Peace and blessings to you all!

1love

[awakensong]

PT, just wanted to add that if you are an example of how your religion makes you behave towards others, who will want any part of it? I think people in this world are looking for kindness, gentleness, love and understanding.

Vengeance and punishment are intimidating and put a person on the defensive, but love heals. Your god sounds like he is right along side the christian god as a terrorist, which is not positive no matter how you word it.

[brio313]

PT, just wanted to add that if you are an example of how your religion makes you behave towards others, who will want any part of it? I think people in this world are looking for kindness, gentleness, love and understanding.

Vengeance and punishment are intimidating and put a person on the defensive, but love heals. Your god sounds like he is right along side the christian god as a terrorist, which is not positive no matter how you word it.

What do you mean dear awakensong?

Did he insult and harass people because they had another view than him? Was he banned because he had his viewpoint? Is that what you say?

Why are you judging me to be just like him? I don't agree with the most he said. That's not the point. Why are you so offending?

Besides, i think you are stigmatizing when you label my god as a terrorist.
Infact my God says: Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reaction. Do not fear.

[awakensong]

Talk about judging? You have come to this forum to tell us that we are following a devil if we don't believe in your particular god. Belief in a cruel god makes a cruel man - so said one of the founding fathers of the USA (Thomas Paine). We already have one of those in the west who says the very same thing - that if we don't follow "him", we are following the devil. That is terrorism and who needs more of that?

The Qu'ran does not need to be refuted (which only causes arguments and hard feelings), it just needs to be explained properly and a person can walk away on their own. That is something that has been done very well, in my opinion, by authors such as Zecharia Sitchin, Lloyd Pye, Jason Martell and a host of others. They have explained the root of all earth religions, which become obsolete and unnecessary when understood from the proper perspective.

[seanx]

brio313 wrote:

Besides, i think you are stigmatizing when you label my god as a terrorist.

Your 'God' does not exist.

It is an Elite creation. Another perversion of the true nature of God.

Your 'God' is the same violent, vengeful, sick, 'I must-be-obey' entity
that the Elite created for the christians.

Though for you, they gave it a new name Allah.


Same mind-control game. Same 'type of programming' to keep humanity
trapped in the matrix.

Awakensong wrote

Talk about judging? You have come to this forum to tell us that we are following a devil if we don't believe in your particular god. Belief in a cruel god makes a cruel man - so said one of the founding fathers of the USA (Thomas Paine). We already have one of those in the west who says the very same thing - that if we don't follow "him", we are following the devil. That is terrorism and who needs more of that?

The Qu'ran does not need to be refuted (which only causes arguments and hard feelings), it just needs to be explained properly and a person can walk away on their own. That is something that has been done very well, in my opinion, by authors such as Zecharia Sitchin, Lloyd Pye, Jason Martell and a host of others. They have explained the root of all earth religions, which become obsolete and unnecessary when understood from the proper perspective.

great post.

[awakensong]

brio313,

I was speaking to positive terror, the starter of this thread, when I said that. The choice of that username bespeaks what is behind it, although it is an oxymoron and contradiction in terms. Terror is never positive.

seanx has cut to the chase and bottom-lined this very well. Your god does not exist. No gods do in any sense that you have come to believe. They are an enslavement and the reason behind most wars. All wars are false flags because of money, power or religion.

[blue]

Goodness gracious, it's rejuvenating to observe it still exists at a small degree in these forums at least........

Isn't this the religion forum? If no one is interested in religion why is there a religion forum?
this is not a religion forum. this is a religion section. and it is not to promote allah or jesus.....it is to expose the dream world we believe to be real. so kindly do not promote any religion here.....no one is going to convert to islam. period.


Why did "positive terror" got banned by the way?
I haven't read all his posts or threads though, (this thread) but in my opinion your burst at him was way more aggresive than he ever was.
he got banned coz he didnt follow the forum rules. he was trying to convert people to islam.

It's sad to see people so distanced and detached to each other.....Without humility, peace, compassion, kindness and forgiveness, how may we be able to find true love and connect as souls?

religions make people so distanced and detached to each other. my god is real and superior and if you dont obey my god you get hatred

Is this the way we threat our guest from a different culture&view even if there are extensive disagreements?

is this the way you treat this forum? spamming it with promoting your religion?

Anyway,
Peace and blessings to you all!

1love.

[blue]

The choice of that username bespeaks what is behind it, although it is an oxymoron and contradiction in terms. Terror is never positive.
thats actually true.

[bgrade_actor]

It is unfortunate that some people mistakenly believe that Muslims worship a different God than Jews and Christians, and that "Allah" is just the "god of the Arabs". This myth, which has been propagated by the enemies of Islam, is completely false since the word "Allah" is simply the Arabic name for Almighty God.

Yeah this old chestnut. You do not worship the same God as the Jews. Since Isalm doesn't recognize the trinity, or Jesus then by definition you cannot be worshiping the same God as Abraham or Moses. Also who is the Psalmist talking about here:

Ps 110:1 The LORD says to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet

Who is the Lord talking about? This is in the old testament and supposedly the same God you are talking about.

Also I fail to understand the whole business of Martyrs getting multiple virgins to fool around with in heaven when such behavior would be considered taboo on earth?

[brio313]

Talk about judging? You have come to this forum to tell us that we are following a devil if we don't believe in your particular god.

I am sorry you feel i came to this forum and doomed you and likewise to hell because you are following "a devil"

According to my perception it is not wise to discuss further with you guys. I understand your points, but has no intention to make this a "exposing christianity/islam similar thread."

"Terror is never positive." Agree ;)

[brio313]

is this the way you treat this forum? spamming it with promoting your religion?


Hehe, blue i have to admit i find you very funny:D
Thank you for the answers.

But what do you mean when you say i spammed this forum, promoting my religion?

What have i spammed to promote my "religion" ?
I wasn't aware i had raped this forum and treated it like a "whore"

Anyway, good luck to all of you guys and your quest. I hope there is more space for knowledge (if it's possible) in your allready omniscient minds. ;)

[jahzel]

I'm sorry to say this, but I think the Islamic faith is the worst possible mind control known. It treats women like dirt, imposes strict regulations and completely destroys any form of psychic ability.

I hope religion goes to hell.

[awakensong]

Talk about judging? You have come to this forum to tell us that we are following a devil if we don't believe in your particular god.

I am sorry you feel i came to this forum and doomed you and likewise to hell because you are following "a devil"

According to my perception it is not wise to discuss further with you guys. I understand your points, but has no intention to make this a "exposing christianity/islam similar thread."

"Terror is never positive." Agree ;)
brio313,

No one here wishes you any ill will, but your friend took this board by storm and made an aggressive attempt at challenging us to "disprove" the theories of Islam. Add to that his username, and is it any wonder we reacted like we did?

We are bombarded here daily with our own people in the western world and their version of religion with its own angry god that everyone must believe in to the exclusion of all else.

What is needed is a correct understanding of how religions became "personified" and the history behind the events leading up to it.

[brio313]

brio313,

No one here wishes you any ill will, but your friend took this board by storm and made an aggressive attempt at challenging us to "disprove" the theories of Islam. Add to that his username, and is it any wonder we reacted like we did?

We are bombarded here daily with our own people in the western world and their version of religion with its own angry god that everyone must believe in to the exclusion of all else.

What is needed is a correct understanding of how religions became "personified" and the history behind the events leading up to it.

awakensong,

Thank you for your answer.

I have no problem to understand and feel your interpretation of the situation.
This guy positive terror, i just felt this pity for him which i can't describe.

I wish you all well, must peace dwell inside of everyone!

[blue]

What have i spammed to promote my "religion" ?
I wasn't aware i had raped this forum and treated it like a "whore"



Much worse my friend....much worse.

[brio313]

Much worse my friend....much worse.

Ok, blue you have convinced me. I think i have to perform harakiri now.
It was a pleasure to speak to you all....:rolleyes:

[picha]

Its blatently obvious islam is a false religion.

I just cannot understand how anyone can believe mohammed was prophet after he committed such vile acts which were usually justified by highly convenient revelations.

[synergy777]

i think muslims today need to speak up. the extremists especially the saudis/wahabbism, need to be stopped. the saudis are biggest exporters of terrorism with wahabbism, and the west, uk/usa, don't say anything to saudi, becuase they love saudi oil.

all this terrorism has funding from saudis, and western intelligence agencies, they are in it together. classical islam, eg real islam is good, this new saudi version is an elite tool. wahabbism, zionism, british israelism, etc all these are elite creations, all are subject to the vatican.

[blue]

Ok, blue you have convinced me. I think i have to perform harakiri now.
It was a pleasure to speak to you all....:rolleyes:

no need for harakiri brio313 it wont help here.

[picha]

i think muslims today need to speak up. the extremists especially the saudis/wahabbism, need to be stopped. the saudis are biggest exporters of terrorism with wahabbism, and the west, uk/usa, don't say anything to saudi, becuase they love saudi oil.

all this terrorism has funding from saudis, and western intelligence agencies, they are in it together. classical islam, eg real islam is good, this new saudi version is an elite tool. wahabbism, zionism, british israelism, etc all these are elite creations, all are subject to the vatican.

Hi Synergy. You seem to think real/classical islam is a nice peaceful religion, but this is not the case im afraid. Try and find out what kind of a man mohammed was and then youll see the true nature of islam.

Islam commands offensive and aggressive jihad

Muhammad is foundational to Islam, and he set the genetic code for Islam, waging war. In the ten years that he lived in Medina from his Hijrah (Emigration) from Mecca in AD 622 to his death of a fever in AD 632, he either sent out or went out on seventy-four raids, expeditions, or full-scale wars. They range from small assassination hit squads to kill anyone who insulted him, to the Tabuk Crusades in late AD 630 against the Byzantine Christians. He had heard a rumor that an army was mobilizing to invade Arabia, but the rumor was false, so his 30,000 jihadists returned home, but not before imposing a jizya tax on northern Christians and Jews.

What are some of the legalized rules of jihad found in the Quran, hadith, and classical legal opinions?

(1) Women and children are enslaved. They can either be sold, or the Muslims may "marry" the women, since their marriages are automatically annulled upon their capture.

(2) Jihadists may rape these captured female prisoners of war. Ali, Muhammad’s cousin and son-in-law, did this, even though he was married to Fatima, Muhammad’s daughter. In the hadith, the prophet defended his son-in-law.

(3) Women and children must not be killed during war, unless this happens to polytheists in a nighttime raid when visibility was low. Whether polytheists or monotheists or fill-in-the-blank, this law is unjust.

(4) Old men and monks could be killed.

(5) A captured enemy of war could be killed, enslaved, ransomed for money or an exchange, freely released, or beaten. One time Muhammad even tortured a citizen of the city of Khaybar in order to extract information about where the wealth of the city was hidden.

(6) Enemy men who converted could keep their property and small children. This law is so excessive that it amounts to forced conversion. Only the strongest of the strong could resist this coercion and remain a non-Muslim.

(7) Civilian property may be confiscated.

(8) Civilian homes may be destroyed.

(9) Civilian fruit trees may be destroyed.

(10) Pagan Arabs had to convert or die. This does not allow for the freedom of religion or conscience.

(11) People of the Book (Jews and Christians) had three options (Sura 9:29): fight and die; convert and pay a forced "charity" or zakat tax; or keep their Biblical faith and pay a jizya or poll tax.

Thus, jihad is aggressive, coercive, and excessive, and Allah never revealed to Muhammad to stop these practices.

The following article lays out a timeline for the Islamic Jihad, four centuries before the Europeans launched their own.

The Truth about Islamic Imperialism
http://www.answering-islam.org/Authors/Arland...

[synergy777]

picha, i have seen that site before its biased.

look i am a sikh, sikhism was created as a direct response to the onlsaught of the mughal empire. we fought muslims for 100's of years, no other religion has fought muslims like the sikhs did, and we won. if it wasn't for the genocide and imperialism of the mughal empires, sikhism would not be here today. so i could take the view that muslims are all evil. that muslims slaughtered my ancestors, invaded my motherland, and ruled for over 400 years. but i do not confuse corrupted doctrine which supports imperialism with true wisdom.

lets look at judaism, the talmud preaches hate. lets look at the bible, deutronomy preaches hate. lets look at the hadiths, sunnahs and corrupt translations of the koran, they preach hate. thus one could say that all three abrahamic religions are evil. its these three religions which have caused all the wars, slavery, genocide, stealing of land eg canada, australia, americas, africa etc.

look at the vedic religions, hinduism/buddhism/sikhism, we have not used it for imperial means, we have not converted people by force/missionaries. we have a non violent messaage, we teach meditation/spiritual development, we teach compassion to animals, nature and people. we are taught to be vegetarian, practice yoga, etc. our vedic religions improve man and do not control man. and yet my vedic religions have been corrupted aswell, the caste system, corrupt doctrines, so guess what all religions are bad. so what choice do i have, do i choose new age, which is old vedic stuff repackaged, or satanism/luciferic religions. there you have it, all religions are evil, because man has corrupted them, used them for this own means. do i blame god or man, does man have free will, responsibility for his own actions, yes he does.

so my view is this, that the core messages of all religions are the same, they preach a personal relationship with god, hence no need for the clergy/priesthood to act as intermediaries. thats why the clergy took over religions, its about power/wealth they gain from corrupting religion.

i have met good jews, christians, muslims etc, thus i know there are good and bad people from every religion. i know from my own personal experience and not elite propaganda.

recognise the corruption of man. we do not know muhammed, we know what others have wrote about him. say the elite wanted to justify subjugation of women, they would write, mohammed said this, so you have to do it. who would question it? mohammed said that islam ould only last for a short time, before the priests corrupted it, how many imams tell you about this?, none of them. yashuah/jesus forught against the priests of the temple, and yet these priests and the romans, created his religion. so if those who you fight against, create a religion about you, after they kill you, can you trust them?

all these people spoke of equality for both genders, equality of all people. they spoke about a personal relationship eg pray/talk/mediate to god, like child would talk to a parent. they did not say only the priests can save you did they. they said the kingdom of heaven is within, eg your spirit.

i believe religion is the elites creation they based it on wisdom form the source/god/creator, added their esoteric/luciferic/solar symbolism, and then enforced it on the masses.

i believe the fallen/annunaki/archons etc control the 5 sense reality and spirit realms. i believe they fool us into thinking we are in heaven/hell, and then makes us reincarnate, thus we are trapped in the cycle of birth and death. thus true liberation from this cycle/multi layered matrix is hard and only a few make it. this is what yashuah, buddha taught you, to not taste the second death, to get liberated from the cycle, samsara.

[kevincent]

[CENTER]7 Reasons to Read the Word of God: The Bible (atleast the new testament of Christ's life and his ressurection from death to eternal life in Heaven.)

[B][SIZE="3"]1. Inimitable
It dares you to disprove it. How? It says that humans cannot write a book like this even if they pooled all their resources together and got help also from the spirits.



yeah man. they can, the holy spirit.

[scooby85]

Due to his upright character he acquired the nickname "Al-Amin", meaning "faithful/trustworthy' since he was a kid by everyone, muslims and non muslims alike who knew him personally, which says a great deal about his characther, so i dont think its right for anyone to judge him as no one on here knows him!

People who say he had sinister motives are wrong, if he was a paedo as some of you wrongly think on here, he would of married many more kids.. at that time when he became a prophet, families were offering him their young daughters but he declined, if he had dark motives he couldve easily said something like allah permits me to have 10 wives then marry 10 kids but he didnt, he couldve married anyone, he was a prophet for gods sake! it wasnt for sexual satisfaction as he married 3 others who were not all that beautiful and one was alot older than him. and because he married aisha alot of his sayings (hadith) are with us today as she was young and very knowledgable.

and just because our govts label sex with under 16s paedophilia it doesnt mean theyre right (if outside marriage then yes), when a girl reaches puberty its natures way of saying the girl is ready for sex and can have kids otherwise they wudnt reach puberty at that age, even here, in the olden days 10/12 year olds getting married wasnt unheard of. Alot of 3rd world countries still marry their daughters off at a very young age as they are a burden on them (many families kill their daughters for that reason), so if a sexually mature girl, her family, the guy are all happy with that then whats wrong with it? im talking about marriage here not just a quick shag.

however people like gary glitter should have theyre bollocks chopped off as theyre motives are very different, they do it because theyre twisted.. they abuse kids as a habit and for their own evil sexual pleasures.

Another way of putting it is if something was socially acceptable back then might not be now and vice a versa so we cant judge. Different traditions/cultures different point of views..i.e sex outside marriage was strongly frowned upon here back in the day but now its acceptable, same goes for drinking/gambling etc

If you read my post and understand what im saying u will see that in no way am i condoning paedophillia as thats just wrong, u have to look at the situations before you can judge anything.

[zen_fox]

Allah isn't real. Neither is Mohammed and I think Islam is the worst religion. Even worse than Christianity.

And that's the BEST reason not to open up the filthy, foul, disgusting book of the Qur'an or worshipping some phony God or his made up prophet who has no basis in reality or modern life.

Islam should be added to the big list of offensive religions which should be banned from being taught to children.

[rhydra]

Haven't read the whole thread so apologies if someone has more or less said this.
Personally, I think all religions at the highest level are connected. The people you see insulting each other and declaring holy wars, blowing themselves up, dropping ordnance from high altitude and converting from one to the other are way, way down the scale.

Up there, high up the scale of hierarchy I can see in mind's eye, all those who really control the followers are probably laughing in some conference centre about how each one's followers have committed the latest atrocity on the other and how it makes it easier to keep the rest in fear and in line.

Islam, Christianity, Judaism, probably a few more, it's all a cartel, blindfolding the followers who feel that they need guidance and who, with the best of intentions, think they are doing some good for themselves and others. They are being used, each and every one. No disrespect for those who are followers, they are just as much victims as the rest of us. Can't concentrate for long enough to make a long post but that's my £0.2.

[armoured_amazon]

65.4 “If you divorce your (child) wife before she reaches menstruation age her idda is three months”.

“A muslim man can have sexual pleasure with a little girl as young as a baby. But he should not penetrate her vaginally, however he can sodomize her”. (Tehriro vasyleh, fourth edition, Qom, Iran, 1990) - Imam Khomeini

Women And Child Abuse In Islam!!! - YouTube

Not something I am comfortable with. AT ALL.

[haman]

guys, don't turn this into another addition to the already overflowing rant room. Positive terror, if you really knew anything about islam or yourself you'd answer questions in your own words, instead of copying and pasting all the time.

Dav.

exactly ..

[scooby85]

“A muslim man can have sexual pleasure with a little girl as young as a baby. But he should not penetrate her vaginally, however he can sodomize her”. (Tehriro vasyleh, fourth edition, Qom, Iran, 1990) - Imam Khomeini




No that is wrong, what the hell is the tehiro vasleyeh?? its nothing to do with what real islam teaches, islam strongly forbids sodomy even with consenting adults, it goes as far as saying that a marriage is annulled if that was to happen,so instead of finding bullshit info id rather you use authentic islamic sources i.e quran/hadith.

And zen fox, allah isnt real, so who created you? and everything that there is in the universe?

muhammad couldn't read or write, doesn't that prove that the quran is the word of Allah?

and seeing as it couldn't have been written by a man as there are things in there man couldn't have known 1400 years ago, things that scientists have only recently discovered i.e expanding universe, earth is egg shaped and not round, the big bang, weather/rain cycle, the embryo looking like a leech, muscles cover bones when embryos formed not the other way round, the moon having an orbit like an 's' shape, fresh/salt water barrier, mountains used as pegs to stablise land.. i can go on and on..

it couldn't have seen satan as the quran goes against everything satan believes in and it would kind of defeat the purpose of satans existence..

so without any doubt we can say its the word of Allah/god...

Islam is not like other religions, even the quran says there's no compulsion in religion so whether you are muslim or not it doesn't matter to me but its a muslims to duty to make people understand the religion.


Look at it this way, judaism was brought by prophet moses, that got corrupted as the jews later regarded azra as the son of god, then came jesus with christianity, which again got corrupted as they regarded jesus as the son of god, for that reason muhammad came with islam to teach polytheism, something that ALL the prophets taught in the original texts and the quran will never be corrupted thats the promise of allah..

Many people who disrespect the religion is because they see a few words in the media that have been taken out of context and use it as a very weak argument which can be easy refuted, convincingly. Unless you have read and understood the quran i don't think your qualified to make judgments on the holy book as that would be foolish.. Im all up for debates but leave the insults out mate, im not here for that.

In the end it will be islam that destroys the new world order, the only thing in my opinion thats halting its progress at the moment, mark my words..
which other religion/country/sect has over half a billion people in its army? when the holy war is declared on the nwo/antichrists army, every muslim (men) has to join the fight, as allah promised the world will be muslim one day before the day of judgment.

peace

[scooby85]

65.4 “If you divorce your (child) wife before she reaches menstruation age her idda is three months”...

Say you lived in a poor country but you were fairly well off and you were a good character, you saw a family in your village who were very poor and finding it hard to support themselves and were in extreme hardship, they had a young daughter who they cant support.. then do you not think marrying her is the right thing to do for everyones sake? Obviously dont have sex with her until she reaches puberty. whats marriage without sex? its the man looking after the wife, feeding her, protecting her, clothing her... That verse doesnt mean every bloke must marry a kid, its saying if it will benefit more people than hurt then you dont have to but its permissible...

I havnt personally seen or heard of a muslim man marrying a kid because they havnt been in that position to..

seriously what would you do if you were in a situation like that? marry the poor girl or let her die? if yoiu were a caring person you would marry her.

[zen_fox]

I'm curious what would be the most offensive thing that one could say about Islam? What would be considered horrible blasphemy and really irritate the muslims?

[armoured_amazon]

65.4 “If you divorce your (child) wife before she reaches menstruation age her idda is three months”...

Say you lived in a poor country but you were fairly well off and you were a good character, you saw a family in your village who were very poor and finding it hard to support themselves and were in extreme hardship, they had a young daughter who they cant support.. then do you not think marrying her is the right thing to do for everyones sake? Obviously dont have sex with her until she reaches puberty. whats marriage without sex? its the man looking after the wife, feeding her, protecting her, clothing her... That verse doesnt mean every bloke must marry a kid, its saying if it will benefit more people than hurt then you dont have to but its permissible...

I havnt personally seen or heard of a muslim man marrying a kid because they havnt been in that position to..

seriously what would you do if you were in a situation like that? marry the poor girl or let her die? if yoiu were a caring person you would marry her.

I know lots of lovely men and women who are Muslims. I have read the Qur'an and as a protector of children I am still waiting for someone to explain to me how it is okay to sodomise a child that is too young for 'regular' intercourse'.

It would be better for the 'poor girl' to die.

[zero1]

I'm curious what would be the most offensive thing that one could say about Islam?

I can think of sooo many offensive things to say about Islam, but no one seems to trump another...

What would be considered horrible blasphemy and really irritate the muslims?

1) Draw a picture of Mohammed with a bomb in his turban, and his dick up a 9 year old girls' ass

2) Make A4 sized copies of said picture

3) Post said picture on the Internet in printable form, then encourage others to make leaflets and flyers of the picture and pin them up everywhere in the West.

Job done - Jihad in a heartbeat, "Allah-Akbar!" with a machine-gun, believe it...

[zen_fox]

“A muslim man can have sexual pleasure with a little girl as young as a baby. But he should not penetrate her vaginally, however he can sodomize her”. (Tehriro vasyleh, fourth edition, Qom, Iran, 1990) - Imam Khomeini




No that is wrong, what the hell is the tehiro vasleyeh?? its nothing to do with what real islam teaches, islam strongly forbids sodomy even with consenting adults, it goes as far as saying that a marriage is annulled if that was to happen,so instead of finding bullshit info id rather you use authentic islamic sources i.e quran/hadith.

And zen fox, allah isnt real, so who created you? and everything that there is in the universe?

muhammad couldn't read or write, doesn't that prove that the quran is the word of Allah?

and seeing as it couldn't have been written by a man as there are things in there man couldn't have known 1400 years ago, things that scientists have only recently discovered i.e expanding universe, earth is egg shaped and not round, the big bang, weather/rain cycle, the embryo looking like a leech, muscles cover bones when embryos formed not the other way round, the moon having an orbit like an 's' shape, fresh/salt water barrier, mountains used as pegs to stablise land.. i can go on and on..

it couldn't have seen satan as the quran goes against everything satan believes in and it would kind of defeat the purpose of satans existence..

so without any doubt we can say its the word of Allah/god...

Islam is not like other religions, even the quran says there's no compulsion in religion so whether you are muslim or not it doesn't matter to me but its a muslims to duty to make people understand the religion.


Look at it this way, judaism was brought by prophet moses, that got corrupted as the jews later regarded azra as the son of god, then came jesus with christianity, which again got corrupted as they regarded jesus as the son of god, for that reason muhammad came with islam to teach polytheism, something that ALL the prophets taught in the original texts and the quran will never be corrupted thats the promise of allah..

Many people who disrespect the religion is because they see a few words in the media that have been taken out of context and use it as a very weak argument which can be easy refuted, convincingly. Unless you have read and understood the quran i don't think your qualified to make judgments on the holy book as that would be foolish.. Im all up for debates but leave the insults out mate, im not here for that.

In the end it will be islam that destroys the new world order, the only thing in my opinion thats halting its progress at the moment, mark my words..
which other religion/country/sect has over half a billion people in its army? when the holy war is declared on the nwo/antichrists army, every muslim (men) has to join the fight, as allah promised the world will be muslim one day before the day of judgment.

peace

So because some guy couldn't write this proves that Allah isn't just a fairy tale? I know nothing of how that silly book was written, nor do I care.

I will address your argument stating that Allah is real because I am. Firstly, there may be some creator being somewhere. Or it's possible for their to not be a creator and for this all to be a self-creating and self-perpetuating fractal. Neither matters though because your argument is non-sequitur, the conclusion does not follow it's premise. I exist yet this is no way provides any proof of Allah's existence.

Let me state this clearly. Allah is not real. Islam is the most disgusting religion there is. It's follower are horrible, wretched people. Anyone who is a muslim is insane and should be in a mental hospital. This religion is disgusting and should not be allowed to be taught to anyone, children or adults. In the name of your Allah people actually blow themselves up. This is what you've given the world. This is what your religion is. The Qur'an is one of the few instances of books I will judge by their cover, and leave it unread yet pronounce total judgment over it. By being a muslim you are being a person of hate. Allah is a lie. Islam is a religion of death and violence and from what I can tell child sodomy. By supporting this wicked religion you are supporting hate, violence, and rape of children.

[scooby85]

armored amazon did u not read my post or u deliberately being a retard? islam forbids ANY form of sodomy, which part of that do u not understand? it doesnt matter who says its allowed, the quran FORBIDS it..

a part of christianity allows the father of the bride to stick his finger up his daughters pussy to check if shes a virgin or not before marriage, did you know that? But im not going to use that against all christians because that would be a stupid thing to do.

zenfox.. So because some guy couldn't write this proves that Allah isn't just a fairy tale? I know nothing of how that silly book was written, nor do I care.


Yes it does, he was an illiterate man so how could he have possibly written all these things that man couldn't have not known 1400 years ago? you haven't answered my question, ur just being ignorant.. and terrorist/suicide bombers ARE NOT apart of islam as the quran once again FORBIDS suicide and killing innocent people!

You guys are making things up about islam that have nothing to do with the religion, is that how much u hate islam that u have to make lies up about it? jeeez thats low!

and a supreme being could have created u? and that supreme being just decided to put u here without any purpose or direction and without communicating with his creation?? or everything around us is just a coincidence you say? if u believe that then, well im probably wasting my time debating with u.

islam is a religion of hate and violence? if you bothered to read the quran ul find its the complete opposite, the only time we are allowed to be violent is when:

- we are at war
- to protect our homes
- protect our family/fellow muslims

even when we get provoked by people we are not supposed to retaliate but we have to have patience. sounds like someones been filling your head with alot of bullshit about islam. the amount of ignorance you are showing is beyond belief..

[zen_fox]

sooby dooby doo

your religion sucks

[picha]

armored amazon did u not read my post or u deliberately being a retard? islam forbids ANY form of sodomy, which part of that do u not understand? it doesnt matter who says its allowed, the quran FORBIDS it..

a part of christianity allows the father of the bride to stick his finger up his daughters pussy to check if shes a virgin or not before marriage, did you know that? But im not going to use that against all christians because that would be a stupid thing to do.

zenfox.. So because some guy couldn't write this proves that Allah isn't just a fairy tale? I know nothing of how that silly book was written, nor do I care.


Yes it does, he was an illiterate man so how could he have possibly written all these things that man couldn't have not known 1400 years ago? you haven't answered my question, ur just being ignorant.. and terrorist/suicide bombers ARE NOT apart of islam as the quran once again FORBIDS suicide and killing innocent people!

You guys are making things up about islam that have nothing to do with the religion, is that how much u hate islam that u have to make lies up about it? jeeez thats low!

and a supreme being could have created u? and that supreme being just decided to put u here without any purpose or direction and without communicating with his creation?? or everything around us is just a coincidence you say? if u believe that then, well im probably wasting my time debating with u.

islam is a religion of hate and violence? if you bothered to read the quran ul find its the complete opposite, the only time we are allowed to be violent is when:

- we are at war
- to protect our homes
- protect our family/fellow muslims

even when we get provoked by people we are not supposed to retaliate but we have to have patience. sounds like someones been filling your head with alot of bullshit about islam. the amount of ignorance you are showing is beyond belief..

you either dont know your own religion or youre practicing taqqiya.

[octopusrex]

Ignorance is not bliss.. That's for sure.

I see ignorance in most arguments here.

The Koran is a magnificent book to read.

I am on my 3rd reading.

[haukipesukone]

My impressions from the Koran is that it says innumerable times "God is great. God does not need you, but you need God". The few instances the Koran says something else you're half-asleep already and don't pay attention to what was said.

[scooby85]

'you either dont know your own religion or youre practicing taqqiya.'


no im not practising taqiya...

which bit am i making up?? tell me and i will find u verse and chapter to prove i am not making it up.. i know my religion very well thank you, i have read the quran many times, more times than u i expect so im sure i no alot more about it than u, what i stated in my posts are directly from what i have learned and not things iv 'heard' about.



'Ignorance is not bliss.. That's for sure.

I see ignorance in most arguments here.

The Koran is a magnificent book to read.

I am on my 3rd reading.'


octopurex, god bless u... least u no what ur chatting about. if people read the quran once fully i know they would change their minds about islam, but maybe that's what they're scared of, liking this beautiful religion.. i mean afterall 'the sun' says muslims are bad so how can they possibly like this religion it wouldn't be the cool thing to do! :rolleyes:

[scooby85]

sooby dooby doo

your religion sucks


hmmm childish as well ay? suppose that proves u havn't got a valid argument against islam but you just thinks its cool to dismiss it without a single VALID proof, i think i have countered all your false objections comprehensively...

[krakhead]

Two choices : Or you are slave of Allah or you are slave of Satan.


Well THAT sucks dunnit?!!

[krakhead]

listen you scrapped dick,infuriated lions only live in jungles if they come out they are shot dead.get it?if not then go fuck yourself and stop posting your nonsense.no one is interested in religion here.

Bit rich to make such a sweeping statement as your 1st post. I think you'll find LOTS of religious people on this forum.

[octopusrex]

I'll repeat something I was told by a Shaman friend of mine: The Bhagavad Gita, Bible and Koran are history books.

Right now, all must be seen as part of what went down.

But why don't we ask the children... After all, the future belongs to them, not to the elders.

[picha]

I found this on another website with regards to the true nature of islam, I didnt write it but I thought it sums it up alot more elequently than I can:

I think you are confused about exactly what Islam is. In the west some see it as just another form of monotheism, but you miss one very important aspect of it. It is a complete system of governance, from judicial, to cultural laws all divinely inspired. It is in no way shape or form compatible with a democratic society. Within it there are clear calls to violence for Muslims to enforce their divine laws upon any who would transgress them, as seen by the numerous attacks on free speech, and expression already seen in the west. This is the reason why Islamic societies have become so socially, and intellectually retarded, because Muslims have taken to killing their philosophers. This is incompatible, and irreconcilable with western society and thought. To understand Islam you only need to know a few things essentially, in my opinion. It was created by a general. Many of its core elements were derived from war and battle. It is nothing more than a theological weapon, created by a brilliant and highly successful general as a tool to aid in his conquests. That is it, period, it is a weapon used to destroy societies, and bring them under Islamic control.

[Ian2day]

1- This Quraan is challenge from Allaah to mankind and the jinn to produce anything like it, but they were unable to. Then He challenged them to produce only ten soorahs like it, and they were unable to. Then He challenged them to produce something like the shortest soorah in the Quraan, and they could not do it, even though those who were being challenged were the most eloquent and well-spoken of mankind, and the Quraan was revealed in their language. Yet despite that they stated that they were completely incapable of doing that. This challenge has remained down throughout history, but not one person has been able to produce anything like it. If this were the word of a human being, some people would have been able to produce something like it or close to it. There is a great deal of evidence for this challenge in the Quraan, for example, the aayah (interpretation of the meaning):

Say: If the mankind and the jinn were together to produce the like of this Quraan, they could not produce the like thereof, even if they helped one another ;

[al-Israa 17:88]

Allaah says, challenging them to produce just ten soorahs:

Or they say, He (Prophet Muhammad) forged it (the Quraan). Say: Bring you then ten forged Soorah (chapters) like unto it, and call whomsoever you can, other than Allaah (to your help), if you speak the truth!

[Hood 11:13 interpretation of the meaning]

Allaah says, challenging them to produce just one soorah:

And if you (Arab pagans, Jews, and Christians) are in doubt concerning that which We have sent down (i.e. the Quraan) to Our slave (Muhammad), then produce a Soorah (chapter) of the like thereof and call your witnesses (supporters and helpers) besides Allaah, if you are truthful

[al-Baqarah 2:23 interpretation of the meaning]





I don't know if you still visit here or not. Can you expand on this challenge? For someone like me who likes to write poetic prose. I've already done quite a bit of writing which the 'God(s)' would be aware of. So I'm interested to see if I have already met the challenge or not.

I notice the use of the word "we" in, we have sent down to our slave. Who is this we? Is we used in the collective sense of a group of Gods or is it representative of a form of oneness of consciousness? For if it is a representation of oneness of consciousness then surely we have all already equalled the challenge. As we're all one. Which by default implies a collective crediting of creation or us being deemed to be reality's co-creators.

[scooby85]

I don't know if you still visit here or not. Can you expand on this challenge? For someone like me who likes to write poetic prose. I've already done quite a bit of writing which the 'God(s)' would be aware of. So I'm interested to see if I have already met the challenge or not.

I notice the use of the word "we" in, we have sent down to our slave. Who is this we? Is we used in the collective sense of a group of Gods or is it representative of a form of oneness of consciousness? For if it is a representation of oneness of consciousness then surely we have all already equalled the challenge. As we're all one. Which by default implies a collective crediting of creation or us being deemed to be reality's co-creators.

Ian the quran is not a book of poems lol its a way of life, it explains all aspects of life, have you read the quran before? If you have read most or all of it you will understand why you cant beat it, its from god, it cant be bettered!

'we' in plain english means 2 or more people however the language in the quran 'we' is used to describe the one god, its hard to explain but heres a quick copy and paste to help you understand, hope it answers your question!

The Qur’an says very clearly that there is only One God, Allah. “There is no god but Allah” is the basic principle of Islam. There is no ambiguity about this fact in the Qur’an and there are hundreds of ayat or verses of the Qur’an that make this point very clear. Belief in more than one God is Shirk (polytheism) and a major sin according to the Qur’an.

Whenever in the Qur’an Allah is mentioned in the third person there are always singular pronouns used, such as He, him (Huwa or Hu). Whenever Allah is spoken to in the second person there are also singular pronouns, such as Thou, Thine and Thee (Anta, Ka). However only in the first person some times the pronouns I, My or Mine (Ana, Iyaya, ya) are used and sometimes We, Us and Our (Nahnu, Na) are used.

This is a style of speech. Sometime the speaker says I and sometime says we. We also use that in our conversations. In the Qur’an you will see that often the first person singular such as I or My is used, when Allah speaks about His love, care and closeness and forgiveness for His servants. In a similar way the first person plural is often used when Allah speaks about His power, majesty, glory, great deeds or when He speaks about His anger and wrath for the sinners and criminals. (This is, of course, the general use. Sometime the reverse is also the case, depending on the context of the Surah.)

See for example the verses where the first person singular is used: “When My servants ask thee concerning Me, I am indeed close (to them): I listen to the prayer of every suppliant when he calleth on Me: let them also, with a will, listen to My call, and believe in Me: that they may walk in the right way.” (al-Baqarah 2:186) Or “Verily, I am Allah: there is no god but I: so serve thou Me (only), and establish regular prayer for celebrating My praise.” (Taha 20:14) or “But, without doubt, I am (also) He that forgives again and again, to those who repent, believe, and do right, who, in fine, are ready to receive true guidance.” (Taha 20:82) or see another example where both pronouns are used side by side, “Before them the People of Noah rejected (their Messenger): they rejected Our servant, and said, “Here is one possessed!” and he was driven out. Then he called on His Lord: “I am one overcome: do Thou then help (me)!” So We opened the gates of heaven, with water pouring forth. And We caused the earth to gush forth with springs. So the waters met (and rose) to the extent decreed. But We bore him on an (Ark) made of broad planks and caulked with palm-fiber: She floats under Our eyes (and care): a recompense to one who had been rejected (with scorn)! And We have left this as a Sign (for all time): then is there any that will receive admonition? But how (terrible) was My Penalty and My Warning? (al-Qamar 54:9-16)

See also some verses where the first person plural is used: “We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption).” (al-Hijr 15:9) or “We created not the heavens, the earth, and all between them, but for just ends. And the Hour is surely coming” (al-Hijr 15:85) or “And among His Signs is this: thou seest the earth barren and desolate; but when We send down rain to it, it is stirred to life and yields increase. Truly, He Who gives life to the (dead) earth can surely give life to (men) who are dead. For He has power over all things.” (Fussilat 41:39). Or “Already has Our Word been passed before (this) to Our Servants sent (by Us). That they would certainly be assisted. And that Our forces, they surely must conquer. So turn thou away from them for a little while. And watch them (how they fare), and they soon shall see. Do they wish (indeed) to hurry on our Punishment? But when it descends into the open space before them, evil will be the morning for those who were warned (and heeded not) (al-Saffat 37:171-177). There are many other examples.

heres a link to a recitation i think u will like:






Sura Ibrahim (Abraham)+MP3 Mishary Rashed Alafasy - YouTube

[scooby85]

and picha please dont use websites and books for your info, theres alot of disinfo out there, find me the verses in the quran that says its okay to use violence against innocent people, suicide bombings etc you have to understand the religion and not make judgements on the actions of a few muslims, look at the majority, not the extremists..

there are 1.5 Billion muslims around the world and if the majority were violent there wouldnt be many non-muslims left! i reckon theres about 15,000 extremists if that, (thats 0.001% i think!) even then those 15,000 arnt very likely to blow themselves up! thats like saying if 0.001% of christians practised devil worship, would i be able to label all christians as satanists? its all bullshit propaganda man dont swallow it.

and you say it was written by a general? how did this 'general' know things about the human body/earth/space/embryo etc 1400 years ago when these discoveries were only made by scientists in the last 40/50 years?

It is the word of god as ONLY the creator of these things would know how his creations work, just like a mechanic who makes his own cars, only he would be able to write a 'manual' on it...

[scooby85]

Another article that may interest you ian:

The Qur'an is miraculous because the eloquence of its language is so amazing, so sublime as to peak in every characteristic of Arabic as to be unmatchable. To the Arabs who heard it, it was undoubtedly not from a human being. Indeed the language is such that it cannot be imitated at all by man, even a small part. This is one of the attributes of a miracle, inimitability, no-one else can repeat the miracle, or even conceive of attempting it as it is beyond the realms of natural law. The splitting of the red sea is an example of this. No-one else can repeat this phenomenon. The revelation of the Qur'an is equally miraculous and inimitable, but requires a little more depth of thought to appreciate.

It is worth noting that the miracles brought by the previous prophets and messengers came as challenges to the people of the time. At the time of Ibrahim (abraham) there existed many fire worshippers. Yet when he was plunged into the inferno their fire did not burn him. Clearly his God had mastery over the very attributes of the thing they worshipped. At the time of Musa (moses)they ruler in the land was the tyrant pharaoh . In his entourage were a group of illusionists who often performed their tricks in his court. By the will of God Musa's staff transformed into a snake, which consumed their own staffs. The illusionists who were masters of deception new full well that this was no mere trick and understood it must be from God. Similarly in the time of Isa (jesus) skill in healing and medicine was respected greatly, and Isa was able to cure the diseased with a touch and restore life with a touch where once there had been death.

The Arabs at the time of the Qur'an's revelation were enamoured of poetry. They praised one another, admonished and even debated in poetry. Their poets were esteemed members of Makkan society. In Ukaz there took place an annual market where poets would compete in eloquence, the champion's poetry would be hung from the door of the Ka'bah itself.

When Muhammad brought the Qur'an, it was obvious to these people who were masters of Arabic that it was a supernatural phenomenon. For these people whose mastery of Arabic was it its peak could not match its eloquence, its sublime beauty.

Allah himself challenged the Arabs to match His book.

“Or they say ‘he [Muhammad] forged it', Say: ‘Bring ten chapters like it and call [to your help] whomever you can other than Allah if you speak the truth” [TMQ Hud: 13]

And then:

“If you are in doubt of what we have revealed to our messenger, then produce one chapter like it. Call upon all your helpers, besides Allah, if you are truthful” [TMQ Al-baqarah: 23]

Here it can be seen that God himself is challenging the doubters [and all the help they can muster] to produce ten similar chapters to the Qur'an. In the latter challenge the challenge is lessened to only one single like chapter.

Chapter has been translated from the Arabic sura [pl. suwar ]. The smallest sura or chapter is sura kauthar which is only three lines long, thus the final challenge made was to produce only three lines that matched the Qur'an. In effect Allah told the Arabs this book is from Him. He laid down the simplest of tasks that they could never achieve. It was a poignant exclamation to the authenticity of the Qur'an.

History attests that the Arabs were not able to meet the challenge. This inimitable quality is known as i'jaz ul-quran , the miraculous nature of the Qur'an.

The Qur'an clearly is an Arabic discourse. If the Arabs could meet the challenge then the Qur'an would have simply been from Muhammad or one of the Arabs. As not one of them could then it could not have been from any one of them. It could not have been from any non-Arabs either being an Arabic book, so it must be from God himself.

[devolinctus]

positive terror????, terror can be positive, if mohammed hadn't been interested in 6 year old girls, and surah 5:51, i might read your posts. As such, you are a warmonger, a wolf in sheeps clothing, and as such, unless you can outline what islam has brought to the table, other than the ideas they stole from others, islam is useless, more of a killing machine ideology than a religion

[scooby85]

positive terror????, terror can be positive, if mohammed hadn't been interested in 6 year old girls, and surah 5:51, i might read your posts. As such, you are a warmonger, a wolf in sheeps clothing, and as such, unless you can outline what islam has brought to the table, other than the ideas they stole from others, islam is useless, more of a killing machine ideology than a religion


if u read my previous posts regarding this then ul know why he did this, men marrying youngs girls was common even in england at that time as it was most places.. marrying a 6 year old means looking after her, feeding her, clothing her, things a poor family cant do, in 3rd world countries families kill their daughters for that reason, so how is it a bad thing?? he had sex with his wife when she started puberty, natures way of saying shes ready..

obviously in different scenarios it would be wrong, u have to look what the circumstances were back then// if the quran forbade marrying young girls then there would be alot more families killing their new born girls.

if i lived in ethiopia, i had a girl who i couldnt afford to bring up, id rather i gave her away to someone who i know will feed her, look after her. the quran FORBIDS sex with a prepubescent girl so i really cant see what he done wrong. just because u live a cushty life u will probably wont understand what its like for some people/families. u wont ever do it cos u wont have to. it wasnt 6 year old girls, it was just the one. im sure he couldve married many more if he had wicked intentions but he didnt.

what ideas did islam steal?? or did u just read that on sum anti-islamic website and thought ud make sum more crap up??

as for muslims being warmongers.. if they are than i dont class those people as muslims, if unprovoked violence is forbidden in islam then the people who are doing it arnt muslims, simple as that.

[picha]

if u read my previous posts regarding this then ul know why he did this, men marrying youngs girls was common even in england at that time as it was most places.. marrying a 6 year old means looking after her, feeding her, clothing her, things a poor family cant do, in 3rd world countries families kill their daughters for that reason, so how is it a bad thing?? he had sex with his wife when she started puberty, natures way of saying shes ready..

obviously in different scenarios it would be wrong, u have to look what the circumstances were back then// if the quran forbade marrying young girls then there would be alot more families killing their new born girls.

if i lived in ethiopia, i had a girl who i couldnt afford to bring up, id rather i gave her away to someone who i know will feed her, look after her. the quran FORBIDS sex with a prepubescent girl so i really cant see what he done wrong. just because u live a cushty life u will probably wont understand what its like for some people/families. u wont ever do it cos u wont have to. it wasnt 6 year old girls, it was just the one. im sure he couldve married many more if he had wicked intentions but he didnt.

what ideas did islam steal?? or did u just read that on sum anti-islamic website and thought ud make sum more crap up??

as for muslims being warmongers.. if they are than i dont class those people as muslims, if unprovoked violence is forbidden in islam then the people who are doing it arnt muslims, simple as that.

Ok, so if unprovoked violence makes you not a muslim then mohammed cant have been one:

Timeline of Muhammad's Life (A.D)

570 - Born in Mecca
576 - Orphaned upon death of mother
595 - Marries Kadijah - older, wealthy widow
610 - Reports first revelations from angel at age of 40
619 - Protector uncle dies
622 - Emigrates from Mecca to Medina (the Hijra)
623 - Orders raids on Meccan caravans
624 - Battle of Badr (victory)
624 - Evicts Qaynuqa Jews from Medina
624 - Orders the assassination of Abu Afak
624 - Orders the assassination of Asma bint Marwan
624 - Orders the assassination of Ka'b al-Ashraf
625 - Battle of Uhud (defeat)
625 - Evicts Nadir Jews
627 - Battle of the Trench (victory)
627 - Massacre of the Qurayza Jews
628 - Signing of the Treaty of Hudaibiya with Mecca
628 - Destruction and subjugation of the Khaybar Jews
629 - Orders first raid into Christian lands at Muta (defeat)
630 - Conquers Mecca by surprise (along with other tribes)
631 - Leads second raid into Christian territory at Tabuk (no battle)
632 - Dies

[devolinctus]

if u read my previous posts regarding this then ul know why he did this, men marrying youngs girls was common even in england at that time as it was most places.. marrying a 6 year old means looking after her, feeding her, clothing her, things a poor family cant do, in 3rd world countries families kill their daughters for that reason, so how is it a bad thing?? he had sex with his wife when she started puberty, natures way of saying shes ready..

obviously in different scenarios it would be wrong, u have to look what the circumstances were back then// if the quran forbade marrying young girls then there would be alot more families killing their new born girls.

if i lived in ethiopia, i had a girl who i couldnt afford to bring up, id rather i gave her away to someone who i know will feed her, look after her. the quran FORBIDS sex with a prepubescent girl so i really cant see what he done wrong. just because u live a cushty life u will probably wont understand what its like for some people/families. u wont ever do it cos u wont have to. it wasnt 6 year old girls, it was just the one. im sure he couldve married many more if he had wicked intentions but he didnt.

what ideas did islam steal?? or did u just read that on sum anti-islamic website and thought ud make sum more crap up??

as for muslims being warmongers.. if they are than i dont class those people as muslims, if unprovoked violence is forbidden in islam then the people who are doing it arnt muslims, simple as that.
ok , so its ok to groom infantans, ok to kill civillians, ok to blow up markets,?, tell me, what in your religion is forbidden?, insulting islam is the only crime, Lord have mercy on us all

[devolinctus]

if i lived in ethiopia, i had a girl who i couldnt afford to bring up, id rather i gave her away to someone who i know will feed her, look after her

i know the answer, DONT HAVE THE BABY!!!!,its neglect before the child is born, you idiot, examine any african dustbowl or any of the many from across the globe and you find this, lots of kids, no shops, no money, no jobs, no future, but, HEY, whitey will bail us out?, tell me how i'm wrong in my thinking

[scooby85]

if i lived in ethiopia, i had a girl who i couldnt afford to bring up, id rather i gave her away to someone who i know will feed her, look after her

i know the answer, DONT HAVE THE BABY!!!!,its neglect before the child is born, you idiot, examine any african dustbowl or any of the many from across the globe and you find this, lots of kids, no shops, no money, no jobs, no future, but, HEY, whitey will bail us out?, tell me how i'm wrong in my thinking

but people who are poor do u want kids just not girls, they try for a baby if its a boy happy days, at least he'll be able to help his father farming/earn a living etc when he grows up while a girl would not be able to help out therefore they get killed so theyre not a burden. dont have a baby? its easy for u to say... if it was like that then 80% of africans wouldnt have kids.

[devolinctus]

but people who are poor do u want kids just not girls, they try for a baby if its a boy happy days, at least he'll be able to help his father farming/earn a living etc when he grows up while a girl would not be able to help out therefore they get killed so theyre not a burden. dont have a baby? its easy for u to say... if it was like that then 80% of africans wouldnt have kids.

but, theres nothing for them to eat, a basic requirment, scooby, you saying you should have kids when you can't support them?,, i watched a film, in india, the higher caste landlord wanted his crops looking after, he employed lower caste children to catch the rats,, their payment???,they could eat the rats, surely this is wrong

[eternal_spirit]

ok , so its ok to groom infantans, ok to kill civillians, ok to blow up markets,?, tell me, what in your religion is forbidden?, insulting islam is the only crime, Lord have mercy on us all

They lie just like those who can't accept what's written in the Talmud. (Rabbincal Law rules Judaism end of)

(or they are literally brainwashed and cannot see reality)

Another lie they like to use is that circumcision isn't part of Islam.

(same as Shariah Law rules Islam)

[scooby85]

They lie just like those who can't accept what's written in the Talmud. (Rabbincal Law rules Judaism end of)

(or they are literally brainwashed and cannot see reality)

Another lie they like to use is that circumcision isn't part of Islam.

(same as Shariah Law rules Islam)

circumcision isnt a part of islam, its favoured to have it done but its not compulsary.. muslims dont lie, they cant lie its against their religion for a start.. its people like you who spread lies about islam. are you a jew or something??

[elirien]

circumcision isnt a part of islam, its favoured to have it done but its not compulsary.. muslims dont lie, they cant lie its against their religion for a start.. its people like you who spread lies about islam. are you a jew or something??

I think you could be a non-believer with that attitude you've got there going. are you cia or something :)

[thirdwave]

I have not read the koran... only snippets on line... but it comes across like it bullshits as much as the bible and talmud...

Humans are basically a thick animal.... cringe worthy... who ever is responsible for making man kind so thick is one evil fucker.

[scooby85]

I have not read the koran... only snippets on line... but it comes across like it bullshits as much as the bible and talmud...

Humans are basically a thick animal.... cringe worthy... who ever is responsible for making man kind so thick is one evil fucker.

so u judge a whole book by 'reading a few snippets online'? in that case ur point of view has no value to anyone, its a shit argument

[thirdwave]

so u judge a whole book by 'reading a few snippets online'? in that case ur point of view has no value to anyone, its a shit argument

No, I have stated that I have not read the whole book and that i am judging just on what I have read.., but the parts I have seen lead me to believe they are no different to the bible, add that with me not agreeing with the whole concept of religion anyway then my judgement was not hard to make...

the amount of violence in the koran is sick if you ask me.. but i guess im just not taking it in the right context?... ...if only Muhammad had made it easier reading.. :rolleyes:

Also when I found out the word "Islam" means "one who submits" it did not have me rushing to get a copy.

[scooby85]

No, I have stated that I have not read the whole book and that i am judging just on what I have read.., but the parts I have seen lead me to believe they are no different to the bible, add that with me not agreeing with the whole concept of religion anyway then my judgement was not hard to make...

the amount of violence in the koran is sick if you ask me.. but i guess im just not taking it in the right context?... ...if only Muhammad had made it easier reading.. :rolleyes:

Also when I found out the word "Islam" means "one who submits" it did not have me rushing to get a copy.


ok fair enough thats your view, which i dont argree with at all.. and violence in the quran, its directed towards the enemies of islam, the disbelievers who will try and destroy the religion..what do you expect it to say, love your enemies and let them kill you without u fighting back?? you will not find any verse in the quran which says violence is ok (out of war context) rather the opposite, show patience in a difficult circumstance.. see u really should try and read a bit more and understand the religion and not rely on what the sun says about islam :rolleyes:

and obviously you would submit to the creator, it would be foolish not to... dont forget muhammad pbuh went through alot of wars/sacrifices to spread the word of god.. he didnt do any of it for his benefit.
there are so many things in the quran that were stated 1400 years ago (see previous posts) which scientists have only recently discovered.. that is enough proof that it is the word of allah/god, how else could the quran make these statements?? it wouldve been impossible for man to make those statements without using modern technology and Muhammad was an illiterate guy living in a desert for goodness sakes!

[xpleet]

It's really simple in a way,


Muslims are Muslims because they were programmed to be so.
Christians are Christians because they were programmed to be so.
Jews are Jews because they were programmed to be so.
Buddhists are Buddhists because they were programmed to be so.

Anything that isn't off or to your heart is not from you, hence it entered you through external intend, which is programming. Religions do very well at "anchoring" because their respective inscripted demigods threaten their followers to do harm if they don't obey.

People who do not have love or even those who don't have a soul do aswell very good at following a book of belief.

[jesta_g]

well i just read this whole thread in a oner and i can safely say it has even further put me off religion (and im pretty far from it).

Ive said it once and ill say it again, the world would have been a more beautiful and pleasant place if religion had never existed in the first place.

for fuck sake we are all earthlingsand this includes all life on this planet, EARTHlings, start bloody seeing and treating life equally (male/female/animal/insect/plants/earth etcetc) and we will soon see there has never and will never be a need for religion.

"we" are all one.

[thirdwave]

ok fair enough thats your view, which i dont argree with at all.. and violence in the quran, its directed towards the enemies of islam, the disbelievers who will try and destroy the religion..

lol, ahhh thats ok then! :rolleyes:


.what do you expect it to say, love your enemies and let them kill you without u fighting back??

No, I do not see the point in it talking about its enemys at all? ... why? ... if the info is so liberating and valid then why does it focus on enemy's?... or more to the point why does violence have to be used in order to protect such a supposedly potent religion? ...seems to me like a extreme lack of confidence and desperation.

Violence is never an answer.... and you dont need a book to TELL you when to use violence.... human nature knows, and its somthing that does not need urging.


you will not find any verse in the quran which says violence is ok (out of war context) rather the opposite, show patience in a difficult circumstance.. see u really should try and read a bit more and understand the religion and not rely on what the sun says about islam :rolleyes:

but this is the same crap you get in all religions.... it will only offer peace with what is within its clutches..... outside of that you are walking the evil path.... and when it clearly tells you what you do to the "enemy" of your religion.... then that enemy is left wide open for debate..... and again there is no evidence at all that violence helps, in fact history tells us that advising violence is very poor and unwise advice...

e foolish not to... dont forget muhammad pbuh went through alot of wars/sacrifices to spread the word of god.. he didnt do any of it for his benefit.
Well aparantly Jesus died to get the message acorss by letting him self get slautered....

its a shame its all based on violence though this stuff.... all these people with such liborating info useing violence to get the message across.... would the effects of the knowledge they have not be better proven without such violence?..... or is it something it requires?

has his message stopped violence since ? ...no.

in fact what proof have you got that the knowledge works? ... as far as I have seen there has never been peace within Islam.... its always been one big war.... just like all religions.... the only thing that is better about Christianity is more and more people who would have normally eaten the bullshit can now smell it for what it is, where people in the middle east are still very much in that machine.


there are so many things in the quran that were stated 1400 years ago (see previous posts) which scientists have only recently discovered.. that is enough proof that it is the word of allah/god, how else could the quran make these statements?? it wouldve been impossible for man to make those statements without using modern technology and Muhammad was an illiterate guy living in a desert for goodness sakes!


of course its very likely that there is much truth within the book... as with the Bible.....as with the Talmud.... and so on..... but with that truth is also twisted truth..... to the point that the original message from these people (who ever they where) has been lost in translation and thus the desired effect not been manifested. and the books have been used to create this divide and desperation for truth.

if science is proving much of the spiritual incite of many old teachers.... then we no longer need those teachers for it should be about the here and now....about us, and about the truth of science.

[kasalt]

Just thought I'd throw this in here for "scooby85", from Wikipedia's article on Zionism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism#Muslims_.26_Christian_Arabs_supporting_Zio nism):
During the negotiations for Syria at the 1919 Paris Conference, King Faisal endorsed the Balfour declaration. Sheikh Abdul Hadi Palazzi, the leader of Italian Muslim Assembly and a co-founder of the Islam-Israel Fellowship, and Canadian Imam Khaleel Mohammed find support for Zionism in the Qur'an. Other Muslims who have supported Zionism include Pakistani journalist Tashbih Sayyed and Bengali journalist Salah Choudhury. Choudhury has been imprisoned since 2003 and is facing a death sentence.

"I find in the Qur'an that God granted the Land of Israel to the Children of Israel and ordered them to settle therein (Qur'an 5:21 (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/005.qmt.html#005.021)) and that before the Last Day He will bring the Children of Israel to retake possession of their Land, gathering them from different countries and nations (Qur'an 7:104 (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/017.qmt.html#017.104)). Consequently, as a Muslim who abides by the Qur'an, I believe that opposing the existence of the State of Israel means opposing a Divine decree."

See also: Is the Koran Zionist? (http://www.themiddleeastnow.com/koranzionist.html)

[tattooverb]

Do you prefer them (in your enviroment) to treat you like a prostitute and that when it appear you the first wrinkle everything they hate you?

no you do not get rid of the old model as it ages you just get a new younger wife (how about 9 years old) and the old one can stay on as your personal servant and clean up after you
then when the new one gets to old you marry again as you may have as many as four wives in some muslim countries (and yes i have been there myself)

[tattooverb]

I am Muslim, and I tell you with all my heart, for my there is not anything more beautiful and important for the man that the woman.

For my ,as man, a woman is better than all the men of the world, cause I need her, I need her sweetness, her words, her look, her smile , her beautiful body, her support and her accompaniment....

The man is NOTHING without the woman

Islam says it.....and I tell it to you for experience.

yes it seem the only part you have no use for is her brain

[tattooverb]

This is wrong. We say: you are not free to disobey Allaah. If you disobey Allaah, it means that you are coming out of “enslavement” to Allaah, as you describe ‘uboodiyah (total submission to Allaah), and instead you are entering into enslavement to Satan and your desires.

Two choices : Or you are slave of Allah or you are slave of Satan.

this i your main problem pt
i am no ones slave!

[thirdwave]

no you do not get rid of the old model as it ages you just get a new younger wife (how about 9 years old) and the old one can stay on as your personal servant and clean up after you
then when the new one gets to old you marry again as you may have as many as four wives in some muslim countries (and yes i have been there myself)

yes that's another thing... its such a coincidence that when you see how the elite has had an agenda to destroy the balance of female and male where the female has clearly been oppressed in the world...

and we have great books like the bible and the Koran, particularly the Koran, that treat women like some kind of servants...or slaves....

THEN, when you see how "girl power" is exploding around the glob... all of a sudden there is a conspiracy! lol!

it cant be the power of humanity realising the dissemblance and the need for more Female energy in the world.... Noooooooooo....

Its a conspiracy placed their by the ever powerful elite to fuck with us and make us think that Females are equal!

[thirdwave]

this i your main problem pt
i am no ones slave!

If I was at gun point I would choose Satan, as at least you might have a bit more fun.... get to see some nice women in cool cloths and neck a few shots of JD.

[tattooverb]

65.4 “If you divorce your (child) wife before she reaches menstruation age her idda is three months”...

Say you lived in a poor country but you were fairly well off and you were a good character, you saw a family in your village who were very poor and finding it hard to support themselves and were in extreme hardship, they had a young daughter who they cant support.. then do you not think marrying her is the right thing to do for everyones sake? Obviously dont have sex with her until she reaches puberty. whats marriage without sex? its the man looking after the wife, feeding her, protecting her, clothing her... That verse doesnt mean every bloke must marry a kid, its saying if it will benefit more people than hurt then you dont have to but its permissible...

I havnt personally seen or heard of a muslim man marrying a kid because they havnt been in that position to..

seriously what would you do if you were in a situation like that? marry the poor girl or let her die? if yoiu were a caring person you would marry her.

if you were fairly well off you could offer the adults in the family employment so they could better support the children
marrying the child is hardly the better option

[tattooverb]

circumcision isnt a part of islam, its favoured to have it done but its not compulsary.. muslims dont lie, they cant lie its against their religion for a start.. its people like you who spread lies about islam. are you a jew or something??

oh i love this one
muslims don't lie what a laugh
all humans lie at one time or another
typical you would assume the person who is challenging you view a jew


by the way i have a problem with all fundamentalist factions within religions, as all believe only they are right and are intolerant of all other views
this includes christians jews muslims and also conventions like the hindu cast system

[tattooverb]

[QUOTE=scooby85;606999] you will not find any verse in the quran which says violence is ok (out of war context) rather the opposite, show patience in a difficult circumstance..

so all you must do is declare war and you can be as violent as you like

[tattooverb]

If I was at gun point I would choose Satan, as at least you might have a bit more fun.... get to see some nice women in cool cloths and neck a few shots of JD.

satan's party comes with a better soundtrack too:p

[thirdwave]

satan's party comes with a better soundtrack too:p

exactly!.. the only music you get with Allah is the sound of submissive cries from people on their knees worshipping him... pure freedom!

[scooby85]

"I find in the Qur'an that God granted the Land of Israel to the Children of Israel and ordered them to settle therein (Qur'an 5:21 (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/005.qmt.html#005.021)) and that before the Last Day He will bring the Children of Israel to retake possession of their Land, gathering them from different countries and nations (Qur'an 7:104 (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/017.qmt.html#017.104)). Consequently, as a Muslim who abides by the Qur'an, I believe that opposing the existence of the State of Israel means opposing a Divine decree."

See also: Is the Koran Zionist? (http://www.themiddleeastnow.com/koranzionist.html)
[/INDENT]
the children of israel doesn't necessarily mean the jews
you are forgetting the children of israel were gods chosen people until they started corrupting the talmud by saying azra was the son of god, just like christians were gods chosen people until they changed the bible by saying jesus was the son of god.
at the time when Christianity and Islam didn't exist the pharaohs drove out gods people from their land and gods promised that his people will once again reign Israel one day and his people are now the muslims. All the 3 religions of the book believe in the same god. It goes like this..

First religion of god was the jews (talmud) spread by prophet moses, once that got corrupted out came prophet jesus with christianity (gospel) once that got corrupted out came prophet muhammad with islam (quran), which god has said will never be corrupted.

[scooby85]

lol, ahhh thats ok then! :rolleyes:


of course its very likely that there is much truth within the book... as with the Bible.....as with the Talmud.... and so on..... but with that truth is also twisted truth..... to the point that the original message from these people (who ever they where) has been lost in translation and thus the desired effect not been manifested. and the books have been used to create this divide and desperation for truth.



thats the beauty of the quran, its never been changed and never will, unlike the bible and the talmud which, like you said has been changed. Allah promised that the quran will stay intact until the day of judgment, people started memorising the quran as soon as it was revealed so its impossible to have changed it. you still didnt explain who apart from god himself tell you about
1) how the universe is expanding and one day it will start shrinking again (the big crunch)
2) how the rain cycle works/process of the rain
3 how the embryo looks like a blood clot and sticks like a leech (at a size not visible without microscopes link:http://www.islam-guide.com/ch1-1-a.htm) and the muscles form over the bones
4) how a unborn baby first develops sight, feeling then understanding in that order.. the scientists who discovered the embryology/quran link stated that hes in no doubt that it is the word of god.
5) the big bang and the creation of the gaseous universe
6) how iron was 'sent down' to earth.
7) the orbit of the moon like an old date leaf ('s' shaped)
8) the earth having a protected roof i.e layers above the skies
9) an invisible barrier between salt and fresh water
10) mountains used as pegs to stabilise land
11) the formation and development of petroleum
12) the process of photosynthesis and respiration
13) peoples identity on their fingertips
14) the splitting of the moon (now confirmed by nasa pictures)
15) the seven heavens - seven layers/atmospheres above earth.
16) the world is not round but ostrich egged shape.

thats the only ones that come to mind at the moment. Not a single one of these points couldve been made by a human especially 1400 years ago and by a man in the desert who couldnt read or write. Im sure you will agree with me on that.. They cant be predictions as if a single one of those points were proven to be false it would disprove the whole quran.

These points I made have all been proven scientifically with many of those discoveries coming recently, in the last 10 - 100 years ago id say. the quran to me is without a doubt the words of allah/god and anyone with reasonable intellect cannot doubt this if they read the miracles stated above.





No, I do not see the point in it talking about its enemys at all? ... why? ... if the info is so liberating and valid then why does it focus on enemy's?... or more to the point why does violence have to be used in order to protect such a supposedly potent religion? ...seems to me like a extreme lack of confidence and desperation



ok i will show you a modern day example, islam has many enemies i.e the illuminati/zionists, so if they invade countries such as iraq, iran, pakistan, afghanistan, palestine, somalia, syria (dont use the terrorists bullshit) etc what are the 'residents' of that place suppose to do? sit there and let them take over their country through violence??

you said islam is always in wars but how many of them were actually started by muslim countries?? not many if any.. most are started by the illuminati/zions so the violence you are seeing that you link with islam is called self defence and maybe retaliation in some aspects and theres nothing wrong with. You sound like a non violent person but what would you do if i provoked you first came into your home started assaulting your family? im guessing you wouldnt just sit there.

the illuminati is satanic we know that and satans job is to destroy islam as it will be be the only thing standing in its way in the end (why else is there a global war on islam?) and its nothing to do with 'terrorists' if it was then why wernt the ira clamped down on as hard when they commited many acts of terrorism? yes muslims are terrorists to the ptb as they will destroy them eventually. we can all talk on these forums about how were gunna do this and that to stop these bastids but the bottom line is we wont make any difference, thats the truth.

and seeing as ur on this forum u should know that the ptb are an evil bunch serving lucifer, so surely if there is evil then there must be good that will fight it?

[scooby85]

oh i love this one
muslims don't lie what a laugh
all humans lie at one time or another
typical you would assume the person who is challenging you view a jew


by the way i have a problem with all fundamentalist factions within religions, as all believe only they are right and are intolerant of all other views
this includes christians jews muslims and also conventions like the hindu cast system
i shouldve said muslims ARN'T suppose to lie, and if someone lies about islam to degrade it must be a jew

[pinkfreud]

all religions have been established to trap humanity. period.

the crap being posted as to who is trying to 'destroy' islam or whatever is nothing but a reflection of the brainwashing that is taking place, to a huge extent by the elite. by arguing about this subject you'll are giving even more fodder for those scumbags to sit back and laugh as we bicker amongst ourselves. spirituality in its true form knows no religion, we need to realise that.

[elirien]

all religions have been established to trap humanity. period.

the crap being posted as to who is trying to 'destroy' islam or whatever is nothing but a reflection of the brainwashing that is taking place, to a huge extent by the elite. by arguing about this subject you'll are giving even more fodder for those scumbags to sit back and laugh as we bicker amongst ourselves. spirituality in its true form knows no religion, we need to realise that.

well I won't argue about the term religion. organized religion is stupid and dangerous. But reading a book isn't. and don't you think that the individuals that wrote the holy books could have a been in touch with "higher entities". I mean its easy to believe about E.B. or E.T. or any interview at project camelot. But its not that easy when it comes to the Quran or the bible. why? I'm not saying that anyone should believe in the stuff without reading it (what many people around here would say waving flaming torches lol) but reading a book, researching it's ingredients shouldn't be discouraged. Anyone here is quick to read Morals and Dogma. Why is it hard to read "holy scripture"?

[thirdwave]

thats the beauty of the quran, its never been changed and never will, unlike the bible and the talmud which, like you said has been changed.

it does not need to be changed, it only needs to be a misrepresentation of the truth.





1) how the universe is expanding and one day it will start shrinking again (the big crunch)
2) how the rain cycle works/process of the rain
3 how the embryo looks like a blood clot and sticks like a leech (at a size not visible without microscopes link:http://www.islam-guide.com/ch1-1-a.htm) and the muscles form over the bones
4) how a unborn baby first develops sight, feeling then understanding in that order.. the scientists who discovered the embryology/quran link stated that hes in no doubt that it is the word of god.
5) the big bang and the creation of the gaseous universe
6) how iron was 'sent down' to earth.
7) the orbit of the moon like an old date leaf ('s' shaped)
8) the earth having a protected roof i.e layers above the skies
9) an invisible barrier between salt and fresh water
10) mountains used as pegs to stabilise land
11) the formation and development of petroleum
12) the process of photosynthesis and respiration
13) peoples identity on their fingertips
14) the splitting of the moon (now confirmed by nasa pictures)
15) the seven heavens - seven layers/atmospheres above earth.
16) the world is not round but ostrich egged shape.

thats the only ones that come to mind at the moment. Not a single one of these points couldve been made by a human especially 1400 years ago and by a man in the desert who couldnt read or write. Im sure you will agree with me on that.. They cant be predictions as if a single one of those points were proven to be false it would disprove the whole quran.

These points I made have all been proven scientifically with many of those discoveries coming recently, in the last 10 - 100 years ago id say. the quran to me is without a doubt the words of allah/god and anyone with reasonable intellect cannot doubt this if they read the miracles stated above.

maby it was not made by a human, there is every chance it was written by an ETE seeing as there is much ancient texts that would support this.... but you have allot of trust in who ever wrote it and how accurate they where.... you dont have to change something in order to make it corrupt.... you just create something that is not %100 truth.

Also in order to make something effective it must have elements of truth in it, so when these truths manifest people are hooked..... but its the twisted truths and what it does not tell people that also counts.





ok i will show you a modern day example, islam has many enemies i.e the illuminati/zionists, so if they invade countries such as iraq, iran, pakistan, afghanistan, palestine, somalia, syria (dont use the terrorists bullshit) etc what are the 'residents' of that place suppose to do? sit there and let them take over their country through violence??

Of course not, I fully understand why they need to fight, war is war.. But not in the name of allah, but in the name of their home and families... and anyway the western government is actually changing its own laws to suit Muslims.... so it does not look like they are out to kill the religion at all, they just want the land and to put their government in place.


you said islam is always in wars but how many of them were actually started by muslim countries?? not many if any.. most are started by the illuminati/zions so the violence you are seeing that you link with islam is called self defence and maybe retaliation in some aspects and theres nothing wrong with. You sound like a non violent person but what would you do if i provoked you first came into your home started assaulting your family? im guessing you wouldnt just sit there.

the wars are there because of the conflict created by fucking with religious people..... if you took all that religion away then there would be very little to divide and to create the conflict... but because they are so lost in the religion and addicted to it, its very easy for the reps to manipulate the wars and create them.... so much so that it has become apart of the norm for many places there.... if the English government said they where no longer funding churches, there would not be a war about it.... probably a few protests and thats it.... a few crying priests and that's it...

if that happened in the middle east there would be fire, why? ..what has their religion ever brought?.. what has it ever saved?

the illuminati is satanic we know that and satans job is to destroy islam as it will be be the only thing standing in its way in the end (why else is there a global war on islam?) and its nothing to do with 'terrorists' if it was then why wernt the ira clamped down on as hard when they commited many acts of terrorism? yes muslims are terrorists to the ptb as they will destroy them eventually. we can all talk on these forums about how were gunna do this and that to stop these bastids but the bottom line is we wont make any difference, that's the truth.
Well the christians think its their job to kill Christianity.... so there must be a pattern going on here...


and seeing as ur on this forum u should know that the ptb are an evil bunch serving lucifer, so surely if there is evil then there must be good that will fight it?
yes they are although even the term Lucifer is misunderstood, just how they would like it to be.... Lucifer is just based on sun worship... no demon, or bad guy... its just an occult symbol... I think the root of there evil goes much deeper than sun worship.

And you misunderstand me, I don't think its bad that people believe in spirituality and that they should defend it, I am saying that religion is a tool used to slow down man kinds spiritual development... there is no rules to spirituality and future is what we make it... you choose good or you choose bad... good comes with love...fear comes with bad....

if the whole world dropped their religion and just focused on the here and now ..how to treat one another and looked at the government for what they really are we would see we don't need religion... it would simply be about our lives.

I agree the western world is asleep to the horrors going on out there, but it has nothing to do with a lack of Allah knowledge... its to do with being drugged and brainwashed by TV, fear and food poisoning.. both the western and the middle east are starved of certain things to the point that what they do have is distorted and corrupt... the middle east know that TV is evil.... that the system caters for corruption.... but the west know that dogmatic religion is oppressive and limits knowledge and development....

and its all by design.

[pleasuredome]

Not a single one of these points couldve been made by a human especially 1400 years ago and by a man in the desert who couldnt read or write. Im sure you will agree with me on that..

the quran to me is without a doubt the words of allah/god and anyone with reasonable intellect cannot doubt this if they read the miracles stated above.

nope. you see, you have to accept standard history in order to believe that, and therefore asume it must be something of god. according to you, that is 'reasonable intellect'.

[scooby85]

it does not need to be changed, it only needs to be a misrepresentation of the truth.





maby it was not made by a human, there is every chance it was written by an ETE seeing as there is much ancient texts that would support this.... but you have allot of trust in who ever wrote it and how accurate they where.... you dont have to change something in order to make it corrupt.... you just create something that is not %100 truth.

Also in order to make something effective it must have elements of truth in it, so when these truths manifest people are hooked..... but its the twisted truths and what it does not tell people that also counts.







Of course not, I fully understand why they need to fight, war is war.. But not in the name of allah, but in the name of their home and families... and anyway the western government is actually changing its own laws to suit Muslims.... so it does not look like they are out to kill the religion at all, they just want the land and to put their government in place.




the wars are there because of the conflict created by fucking with religious people..... if you took all that religion away then there would be very little to divide and to create the conflict... but because they are so lost in the religion and addicted to it, its very easy for the reps to manipulate the wars and create them.... so much so that it has become apart of the norm for many places there.... if the English government said they where no longer funding churches, there would not be a war about it.... probably a few protests and thats it.... a few crying priests and that's it...

if that happened in the middle east there would be fire, why? ..what has their religion ever brought?.. what has it ever saved?


Well the christians think its their job to kill Christianity.... so there must be a pattern going on here...



yes they are although even the term Lucifer is misunderstood, just how they would like it to be.... Lucifer is just based on sun worship... no demon, or bad guy... its just an occult symbol... I think the root of there evil goes much deeper than sun worship.

And you misunderstand me, I don't think its bad that people believe in spirituality and that they should defend it, I am saying that religion is a tool used to slow down man kinds spiritual development... there is no rules to spirituality and future is what we make it... you choose good or you choose bad... good comes with love...fear comes with bad....

if the whole world dropped their religion and just focused on the here and now ..how to treat one another and looked at the government for what they really are we would see we don't need religion... it would simply be about our lives.

I agree the western world is asleep to the horrors going on out there, but it has nothing to do with a lack of Allah knowledge... its to do with being drugged and brainwashed by TV, fear and food poisoning.. both the western and the middle east are starved of certain things to the point that what they do have is distorted and corrupt... the middle east know that TV is evil.... that the system caters for corruption.... but the west know that dogmatic religion is oppressive and limits knowledge and development....

and its all by design.




the ptbs do worship lucifer and not as in the sun, its called jahbulon. the ptbs arnt stupid why wud they serve the sun? thatd be pretty pointless! They are working towards a new world order where they are literally paving the way for the antichrist/dajjal aka the one eyed king. (no surprise the illuminati have a triangle with an eye on top).

You said the points i made about the quran could be from an e.t (very far fetched) plus why would an e.t want to guide humanity? it cant be for evil purposes as the quran goes strongly against evil and tells us to fight the evil/satanic forces (nwo,antichrist) etc So it would be pretty stupid of satan/ e.t to tell billion plus people to destroy his group!!.. theres maybe one or two points the e.t couldve possibly made but theres no way he'd be about to tell us most of the points i made i.e the expanding universe, the big crunch, how iron was sent down, the embryology, earths protected roof, the formation of petroleum etc only the maker/creator of those thing would be able to explain its functions in detail. If I made a complex machine thats never been made before, no one would have any idea on how it functions except me, the maker of it.

On to religion.. the 3 main religions of the book are real, the ptb didnt invent them however they did infiltrate the first two. Prophet moses splitting the red sea, abraham not burning when pushed into an inferno, jesus curing the sick, muhammad splitting the moon etc are all the acts of allah/god. Its impossible for anyone/entity/being apart from god to perform those. Do u believe in god? who created u/planets/stars/gave u organs/air/water i could go on and on.. and i definitley do not buy the evolution bullshit its the easy way out for people who want to be blind and have it easy in this life, if it was evo how come we are so perfectly made? i mean we couldve easily had an eye on our foot a nose on our hand, planets wouldve collided left right and center etc

Im no sheep either i have been looking into this nwo/illuminati thing since i was 15 thats 9 years, i believe the ptb dont want u to believe in the one god, hence they gave god a son in both christianity and judaism after they infiltrated it, then they gave u the concept of evolution. I wasnt at all religious before and before i accepted islam in my heart i researched all the religions and no religion was as complete as islam, its not just a religion its a whole way of life. if you people took the time to actually look into it in depth and not prejudge it or assume its the same as other religions then you will see how beautiful this religion is, theres a reason why tens of thousands of christians and jews convert to it every year.

How can you think there is no judgment after we die? will a person who rapes/murders/thieves have no sort of repercussions after he dies or would a person who donates/feeds the poor/helps people not be rewarded for his good deeds? if not then theres no point in being a good person, mite as well get rich thieving off people then kill them ay :rolleyes:

a war is a war but not in the name of allah u say.. well if its directed at destroying islam then of course its in the name of allah. lets not fook around the ptbs ARE trying to destroy islam no matter what you may think. you cant watch/read the msm without some sort of anti-islamic article or some vile propaganda against islam to make people hate the religion.. one reason why they do this, its because they are afraid of it. There is no other army in the world that has nearly a billion men in it except islam and when the big holy war against the group of the antichrist (illuminati) is called its obligatory for every muslim man to fight against it.. thats how these cnuts will be destroyed. do you honestly think this group can be destroyed without divine intervention?? So far everything islam has said about this group/antichrist have come true, you will know this if you watched the arrivals series on utube.

[thirdwave]

the ptbs do worship lucifer and not as in the sun, its called jahbulon. the ptbs arnt stupid why wud they serve the sun? thatd be pretty pointless! They are working towards a new world order where they are literally paving the way for the antichrist/dajjal aka the one eyed king. (no surprise the illuminati have a triangle with an eye on top).

if they have been told to worship the Sun "aton" by higher beINGS then it would be very special... the Egyptions worshiped the sun and the elites symbolisim is from egypt...

it obviously does not mean the sun is evil.... or that worshiping it is... what ever the elite do its good FOR THEM ....

also you need to research the occult arts and find out the relevence of interacting with dieties....

the elite are occultists...



You said the points i made about the quran could be from an e.t (very far fetched) plus why would an e.t want to guide humanity?

Research the Mayan's and there "reptilain" god.... Research the semerians and the Annunaki that they said came from the sky.....

There is much there to show its not far fetched...

Why would they want to guide us? ... well why would the being you claim want to? ... obviously because they get something from us.

there is truth hidden within religion, but not revealed.


So far everything islam has said about this group/antichrist have come true, you will know this if you watched the arrivals series on utube.
i would not sount out that much will and has come true... its how it unfolds and how the truth unfolds.... much of Christianity will come true as well ..... if you want to look at prophesy then research the Mayan calender and how they viewed man kinds consciousness... also the Hoppie Indians as they saw today as the 5th sun ... and the Hindu's who see today as the reincarnation of the 5th world... I dont support any religion, but when looking at them all you can get a greater picture of the truth and how they have been used to hide it.

its not about god, its about you and me.... its about Humanity and what we do.

[eternal_spirit]

Im no sheep either i have been looking into this nwo/illuminati thing since i was 15 thats 9 years, i believe the ptb dont want u to believe in the one god, hence they gave god a son in both christianity and judaism after they infiltrated it, then they gave u the concept of evolution. I wasnt at all religious before and before i accepted islam in my heart i researched all the religions and no religion was as complete as islam, its not just a religion its a whole way of life. if you people took the time to actually look into it in depth and not prejudge it or assume its the same as other religions then you will see how beautiful this religion is, theres a reason why tens of thousands of christians and jews convert to it every year.

How can you think there is no judgment after we die? will a person who rapes/murders/thieves have no sort of repercussions after he dies or would a person who donates/feeds the poor/helps people not be rewarded for his good deeds? if not then theres no point in being a good person, mite as well get rich thieving off people then kill them ay :rolleyes:

a war is a war but not in the name of allah u say.. well if its directed at destroying islam then of course its in the name of allah. lets not fook around the ptbs ARE trying to destroy islam no matter what you may think. you cant watch/read the msm without some sort of anti-islamic article or some vile propaganda against islam to make people hate the religion.. one reason why they do this, its because they are afraid of it. There is no other army in the world that has nearly a billion men in it except islam and when the big holy war against the group of the antichrist (illuminati) is called its obligatory for every muslim man to fight against it.. thats how these cnuts will be destroyed. do you honestly think this group can be destroyed without divine intervention?? So far everything islam has said about this group/antichrist have come true, you will know this if you watched the arrivals series on utube.

And you chose Islam because all other religions are false and Islam is the one true one created by God? My advice - You've been conned again, Islam has nothing to do with God. Re think and de programme then reject Islam for what it is - an evil set of rules to follow to control people.

Are you the guy who called me a Jew haha. (many will see the inaccuracy of this smirks) Watch out I may try lay some Usury on you! (oh booh hoo the Islam fanatics have already charged Poll tax - blood money - your robed ponces beat me to it I have no money to usuries)

Judaism and Islam are probably the worst religions known to man. (I've studied more religions and more about religions than most here) One must know ones enemys (religious fundamentalists) They bleat and whine their spiel all over the forum, just like in real life.

You lot will be happy when you have your Jihad and convert the rest of the World's people to Islam. A NWO one religion of Islam. Tired of hearing about how wrong everyone else's religion and culture is and Islam is the only one way that is right! :rolleyes:

[saaduh64]

sometimes i think if some people are realy here to solve problems or not, take the guy above for instance, talking without any logic or undertanding, simply sowing discord. setting an awesome example for all of you what its like being an atheist, you dont believe in anything and you dont wanna believe in anything no matter how good the logics are, thats what i think mentally confused really means.
my personal advice for Mr. ES, please give criticism grounded by logic or please keep your trap shut.
or else...

or else i wont do nuffin 'bout it, can i no anythin else???
hee hee

[eternal_spirit]

So all the World's problems will be fixed if we all kneel down and pray to Allah 5 times a day and follow the Koran? :rolleyes: And you say you're being realistic? Pfft!

And do you think God (Allah) decided to say hey you human there write down these words and teach it to other people and you'll get along fine. Poohey!

[lottie]

the ptbs do worship lucifer and not as in the sun, its called jahbulon. the ptbs arnt stupid why wud they serve the sun? thatd be pretty pointless! They are working towards a new world order where they are literally paving the way for the antichrist/dajjal aka the one eyed king. (no surprise the illuminati have a triangle with an eye on top).


On to religion.. the 3 main religions of the book are real, the ptb didnt invent them however they did infiltrate the first two. Prophet moses splitting the red sea, abraham not burning when pushed into an inferno, jesus curing the sick, muhammad splitting the moon etc are all the acts of allah/god. Its impossible for anyone/entity/being apart from god to perform those. Do u believe in god? who created u/planets/stars/gave u organs/air/water i could go on and on.. and i definitley do not buy the evolution bullshit its the easy way out for people who want to be blind and have it easy in this life, if it was evo how come we are so perfectly made? i mean we couldve easily had an eye on our foot a nose on our hand, planets wouldve collided left right and center etc

Im no sheep either i have been looking into this nwo/illuminati thing since i was 15 thats 9 years, i believe the ptb dont want u to believe in the one god, hence they gave god a son in both christianity and judaism after they infiltrated it, then they gave u the concept of evolution. I wasnt at all religious before and before i accepted islam in my heart i researched all the religions and no religion was as complete as islam, its not just a religion its a whole way of life. if you people took the time to actually look into it in depth and not prejudge it or assume its the same as other religions then you will see how beautiful this religion is, theres a reason why tens of thousands of christians and jews convert to it every year.

How can you think there is no judgment after we die? will a person who rapes/murders/thieves have no sort of repercussions after he dies or would a person who donates/feeds the poor/helps people not be rewarded for his good deeds? if not then theres no point in being a good person, mite as well get rich thieving off people then kill them ay :rolleyes:

a war is a war but not in the name of allah u say.. well if its directed at destroying islam then of course its in the name of allah. lets not fook around the ptbs ARE trying to destroy islam no matter what you may think. you cant watch/read the msm without some sort of anti-islamic article or some vile propaganda against islam to make people hate the religion.. one reason why they do this, its because they are afraid of it. There is no other army in the world that has nearly a billion men in it except islam and when the big holy war against the group of the antichrist (illuminati) is called its obligatory for every muslim man to fight against it.. thats how these cnuts will be destroyed. do you honestly think this group can be destroyed without divine intervention?? So far everything islam has said about this group/antichrist have come true, you will know this if you watched the arrivals series on utube.


My sentiments exactly!! There's a different kind of brainwashing going on and people are falling for it hook line and sinker!
:)

[scooby85]

You said the points i made about the quran could be from an e.t (very far fetched)

U missed out the 2nd part of my question which is more relevant so il paste it again: plus why would an e.t want to guide humanity? it cant be for evil purposes as the quran goes strongly against evil and tells us to fight the evil/satanic forces (nwo,antichrist) etc So it would be pretty stupid of satan/ e.t to tell billion plus people to destroy his group!!--- Id like your explanation to that...

You ask me why would allah want to guide humanity? Simple, he is the creator and if he does not guide us what hope do we have after death?

To be fair thirdwave you seemed to have dodged my main points.. They may worship the sun but who is the Jah-bul-on? He is a satanic deity who is obviously evil... So theres evil and wheres the good?

why would the higher entities want them to worship the sun?? For good? evil?? I highly doubt it would be forr good..

The other point was if it was these so called 'entities' How did moses split the red sea? how did jesus cure the sick? how did muhammad split the moon? How did abraham not burn when he was placed in an inferno? I dont care what you say but there is no entity/alien/ghost/man/goat or anything APART of allah/god who could possibly do that. If you believe the e.ts have the power to do that then i feel sorry for u...

Saadu64 you are spot on these athiests just want the easy life by dismissing god. They are blind in this world they'll be blind in the afterlife. They would not believe in god until there thrown face first into hell.

Another question u missed out was :

Do u believe in god? How can you think there is no judgment after we die? will a person who rapes/murders/thieves have no sort of repercussions after he dies or would a person who donates/feeds the poor/helps people not be rewarded for his good deeds?

Another point u missed:
a war is a war but not in the name of allah u say.. well if its directed at destroying islam then of course its in the name of allah. lets not fook around the ptbs ARE trying to destroy islam no matter what you may think. you cant watch/read the msm without some sort of anti-islamic article or some vile propaganda against islam to make people hate the religion.. one reason why they do this, its because they are afraid of it. There is no other army in the world that has nearly a billion men in it except islam and when the big holy war against the group of the antichrist (illuminati) is called its obligatory for every muslim man to fight against it.. thats how these cnuts will be destroyed. do you honestly think this group can be destroyed without divine intervention??

And eternal spirit i used my own mind to choose islam. no one had to tell me or advice me, sounds like you got the 'its cool to be different' mentality even when your blatently wrong. And the worst religion? haha if the world was an islamic one you wouldnt be having all the mess in the world right now, thered be no recessions, the crime rates would be alot lower, the money would be more evenly split between rich and poor, you'd have a lot less bastard kids about, no drunks about, no gambling, both of which destroy families. if you think those are bad points then i dont see why anyone should value your comments..

I look forward to your reply 3rdwave..

[saaduh64]

So all the World's problems will be fixed if we all kneel down and pray to Allah 5 times a day and follow the Koran? :rolleyes: And you say you're being realistic? Pfft!

And do you think God (Allah) decided to say hey you human there write down these words and teach it to other people and you'll get along fine. Poohey!

for your kind information, it is a known fact that islam offers not only knowledge of how to pray but it is also proven that islam also offers a very complete mean of government, a peaceful and efficient unlike any you have ever experienced in YOUR atheist history.
do go study islam, it aint just kneeling before God five times a day.

and can you tell me of a better way to send a holy word to humans, not going there himself for firstl humans cant concieve the entirety of experiencing God without being incinerated and secondly human beings will only call that entity as wizard anyway for people like you have always been in history.
i read the vampire chronicles and many things i could not understand otherwise were made clear to me, understand that the vampire chronicals is an entirely atheist series of novels on a vampire.

lets just say we muslims are heaneously on the wrong path, tell me do you have a path?
do you have a direction?
can you propose a better way to lead ones life? not your present way surely for at the moment you are living your lives the post modern way. like an anti-christ, your rules are only an opposite of everything religious, you only mock religion by diong exactly the opposite and that doesnt make you more peaceful or even ethical. atleast islam gives us an ethical guideline do you have one?

[scooby85]

and just to help u understand a bit more about the quraan:
note- muse-moses, ibrahim-abraham, isa-jesus, firawn-pharaohs

How exactly can a book be miraculous?

The Qur'an is miraculous because the eloquence of its language is so amazing, so sublime as to peak in every characteristic of Arabic as to be unmatchable. To the Arabs who heard it, it was undoubtedly not from a human being. Indeed the language is such that it cannot be imitated at all by man, even a small part. This is one of the attributes of a miracle, inimitability, no-one else can repeat the miracle, or even conceive of attempting it as it is beyond the realms of natural law. The splitting of the red sea is an example of this. No-one else can repeat this phenomenon. The revelation of the Qur'an is equally miraculous and inimitable, but requires a little more depth of thought to appreciate.

It is worth noting that the miracles brought by the previous prophets and messengers came as challenges to the people of the time. At the time of Ibrahim there existed many fire worshippers. Yet when he was plunged into the inferno their fire did not burn him. Clearly his God had mastery over the very attributes of the thing they worshipped. At the time of Musa they ruler in the land was the tyrant Fir'awn . In his entourage were a group of illusionists who often performed their tricks in his court. By the will of God Musa's staff transformed into a snake, which consumed their own staffs. The illusionists who were masters of deception new full well that this was no mere trick and understood it must be from God. Similarly in the time of Isa skill in healing and medicine was respected greatly, and Isa was able to cure the diseased with a touch and restore life with a touch where once there had been death.

The Arabs at the time of the Qur'an's revelation were enamoured of poetry. They praised one another, admonished and even debated in poetry. Their poets were esteemed members of Makkan society. In Ukaz there took place an annual market where poets would compete in eloquence, the champion's poetry would be hung from the door of the Ka'bah itself.

When Muhammad brought the Qur'an, it was obvious to these people who were masters of Arabic that it was a supernatural phenomenon. For these people whose mastery of Arabic was it its peak could not match its eloquence, its sublime beauty.

Allah himself challenged the Arabs to match His book.

“Or they say ‘he [Muhammad] forged it', Say: ‘Bring ten chapters like it and call [to your help] whomever you can other than Allah if you speak the truth” [TMQ Hud: 13]

And then:

“If you are in doubt of what we have revealed to our messenger, then produce one chapter like it. Call upon all your helpers, besides Allah, if you are truthful” [TMQ Al-baqarah: 23]

Here it can be seen that God himself is challenging the doubters [and all the help they can muster] to produce ten similar chapters to the Qur'an. In the latter challenge the challenge is lessened to only one single like chapter.

Chapter has been translated from the Arabic sura [pl. suwar ]. The smallest sura or chapter is sura kauthar which is only three lines long, thus the final challenge made was to produce only three lines that matched the Qur'an. In effect Allah told the Arabs this book is from Him. He laid down the simplest of tasks that they could never achieve. It was a poignant exclamation to the authenticity of the Qur'an.

History attests that the Arabs were not able to meet the challenge. This inimitable quality is known as i'jaz ul-quran , the miraculous nature of the Qur'an.

The Qur'an clearly is an Arabic discourse. If the Arabs could meet the challenge then the Qur'an would have simply been from Muhammad or one of the Arabs. As not one of them could then it could not have been from any one of them. It could not have been from any non-Arabs either being an Arabic book, so it must be from God himself. We will examine this in detail in the next section.

History also attests that the Arabs were awed by what they heard.

One of the finest of the Arab poems was written by an esteemed poet called Labid ibn Rabiah. His poem when recited at Ukaz called all the people present to prostrate themselves before him in admiration. When the same Labid heard the Qur'an recited he immediately embraced Islam and gave up poetry altogether. When he was once asked to recite some poetry the former master replied: “What! After the Qur'an?”

It is worth noting that it cannot be argued that eloquence of language is a subjective phenomenon, and thus judging whether the Qur'anic challenge has been met is a subjective matter. This is because there are rules pertaining to grammar and expression in Arabic and indeed any other language, and it is these rules the Qur'an alone transcends. Examination any given work and its level of excellence with regards to such rules is an objective matter for one with sufficient mastery of the language.

Eloquence, beauty, rhetoric, structure, rhythm, rhyme, grammar, clarity, depth. These are some of the attributes sought for in Arabic poetry, prose and rhymed prose. These were the then three existent styles of artistic expression in Arabic. Also amongst the attributes superlatives are sought in are the number of words used to convey [less is superior] and their depth, coherence, consistency, symmetry and force.

It was impossible for the poets to write verses in Arabic that peaked in each and every considered category all at once. Inevitably quality in on or a few attributes would be at the expense of quality in some of the others. This is a normal rule of any language. The Qur'an when it arrived produced a fourth category of its own. In each and every sura the very highest level of every attribute was achieved all at once. The Qur'an was renowned for its ability to covey an extraordinary depth of meaning in just a few words. All while maintaining excellence in all characteristics of the language. It was in a league of its own, a league no man could produce even one small piece of in the same style.

As a further example in Arabic there are sixteen forms of poetry, sixteen al-Bihar , literally “seas” so-called because of the way the poem moves, according to a rhythm.

In Arabic poetry each one is more suited to one or a few of the above mentioned characteristics at the expense of the others. The Qur'an achieved an unparalleled excellence throughout in all considerations. Thus it transcended any of the Bihar , any prose or rhymed prose.

This is why the Arabs were shaken by what they heard, and many converted upon hearing the spoken words. For them it was akin to seeing the moon split into two.

More on the nature of the Miracle

The Qur'an literary qualities are at a level beyond man's ability to replicate it. To break this down further we can characterize Qur'an's style [ usloob ] into three qualities:

a) Force [Quwwah ]

b) Beauty [Jamaal ]

c) Clarity [wudooh ]

The language has a force which has an impact on the one who listens to its verses. It brings tears of ecstasy, fear and hope to the heart which contemplates its meanings. With regards to the force the following narration by Ibn Hisham epitomizes this point. He narrated that Jubayr b. Mut'im b. iddi came to the Messenger of Allah [saw] regarding Mu'anna [an ally of the polytheists] in order to ransom him. When he came into the room the Prophet [saw] was reciting Sura at-Tur to him and when he [saw] came to the section:

“Verily, the Torment of your Lord will surely come to pass” [TMQ at-Tur: 7]

“There is none that can avert it;” [TMQ at-Tur: 8]

The polytheist began to shake and then embraced Islam and explained his sudden behaviour by saying: ‘I feared that the torment [ ‘azaab ] would come upon me'.

[mephibosheth]

I find it amusing how Islam is often championed as supremely 'rational' but then we find hilarious elements like the rule that eating with your left hand is basically evil because Shaytaan does it. Yeah, that's the epitome of reason there, LOL.


And do you think God (Allah) decided to say hey you human there write down these words and teach it to other people and you'll get along fine. Poohey!

He didn't even do THAT! God never speaks to Mohammed. Instead, the mediator, the mysterious 'angel Gabriel', does it all.

At least with Jesus we get the idea that God is speaking through the man, because of an internal spiritual connection. And with Moses God is speaking directly to him, not through some intermediary.



The Qur'an clearly is an Arabic discourse. If the Arabs could meet the challenge then the Qur'an would have simply been from Muhammad or one of the Arabs. As not one of them could then it could not have been from any one of them. It could not have been from any non-Arabs either being an Arabic book, so it must be from God himself.

This is a total non-sequitor.

[picha]

and just to help u understand a bit more about the quraan:
note- muse-moses, ibrahim-abraham, isa-jesus, firawn-pharaohs

How exactly can a book be miraculous?

The Qur'an is miraculous because the eloquence of its language is so amazing, so sublime as to peak in every characteristic of Arabic as to be unmatchable. To the Arabs who heard it, it was undoubtedly not from a human being. Indeed the language is such that it cannot be imitated at all by man, even a small part. This is one of the attributes of a miracle, inimitability, no-one else can repeat the miracle, or even conceive of attempting it as it is beyond the realms of natural law. The splitting of the red sea is an example of this. No-one else can repeat this phenomenon. The revelation of the Qur'an is equally miraculous and inimitable, but requires a little more depth of thought to appreciate.

It is worth noting that the miracles brought by the previous prophets and messengers came as challenges to the people of the time. At the time of Ibrahim there existed many fire worshippers. Yet when he was plunged into the inferno their fire did not burn him. Clearly his God had mastery over the very attributes of the thing they worshipped. At the time of Musa they ruler in the land was the tyrant Fir'awn . In his entourage were a group of illusionists who often performed their tricks in his court. By the will of God Musa's staff transformed into a snake, which consumed their own staffs. The illusionists who were masters of deception new full well that this was no mere trick and understood it must be from God. Similarly in the time of Isa skill in healing and medicine was respected greatly, and Isa was able to cure the diseased with a touch and restore life with a touch where once there had been death.

The Arabs at the time of the Qur'an's revelation were enamoured of poetry. They praised one another, admonished and even debated in poetry. Their poets were esteemed members of Makkan society. In Ukaz there took place an annual market where poets would compete in eloquence, the champion's poetry would be hung from the door of the Ka'bah itself.

When Muhammad brought the Qur'an, it was obvious to these people who were masters of Arabic that it was a supernatural phenomenon. For these people whose mastery of Arabic was it its peak could not match its eloquence, its sublime beauty.

Allah himself challenged the Arabs to match His book.

“Or they say ‘he [Muhammad] forged it', Say: ‘Bring ten chapters like it and call [to your help] whomever you can other than Allah if you speak the truth” [TMQ Hud: 13]

And then:

“If you are in doubt of what we have revealed to our messenger, then produce one chapter like it. Call upon all your helpers, besides Allah, if you are truthful” [TMQ Al-baqarah: 23]

Here it can be seen that God himself is challenging the doubters [and all the help they can muster] to produce ten similar chapters to the Qur'an. In the latter challenge the challenge is lessened to only one single like chapter.

Chapter has been translated from the Arabic sura [pl. suwar ]. The smallest sura or chapter is sura kauthar which is only three lines long, thus the final challenge made was to produce only three lines that matched the Qur'an. In effect Allah told the Arabs this book is from Him. He laid down the simplest of tasks that they could never achieve. It was a poignant exclamation to the authenticity of the Qur'an.

History attests that the Arabs were not able to meet the challenge. This inimitable quality is known as i'jaz ul-quran , the miraculous nature of the Qur'an.

The Qur'an clearly is an Arabic discourse. If the Arabs could meet the challenge then the Qur'an would have simply been from Muhammad or one of the Arabs. As not one of them could then it could not have been from any one of them. It could not have been from any non-Arabs either being an Arabic book, so it must be from God himself. We will examine this in detail in the next section.

History also attests that the Arabs were awed by what they heard.

One of the finest of the Arab poems was written by an esteemed poet called Labid ibn Rabiah. His poem when recited at Ukaz called all the people present to prostrate themselves before him in admiration. When the same Labid heard the Qur'an recited he immediately embraced Islam and gave up poetry altogether. When he was once asked to recite some poetry the former master replied: “What! After the Qur'an?”

It is worth noting that it cannot be argued that eloquence of language is a subjective phenomenon, and thus judging whether the Qur'anic challenge has been met is a subjective matter. This is because there are rules pertaining to grammar and expression in Arabic and indeed any other language, and it is these rules the Qur'an alone transcends. Examination any given work and its level of excellence with regards to such rules is an objective matter for one with sufficient mastery of the language.

Eloquence, beauty, rhetoric, structure, rhythm, rhyme, grammar, clarity, depth. These are some of the attributes sought for in Arabic poetry, prose and rhymed prose. These were the then three existent styles of artistic expression in Arabic. Also amongst the attributes superlatives are sought in are the number of words used to convey [less is superior] and their depth, coherence, consistency, symmetry and force.

It was impossible for the poets to write verses in Arabic that peaked in each and every considered category all at once. Inevitably quality in on or a few attributes would be at the expense of quality in some of the others. This is a normal rule of any language. The Qur'an when it arrived produced a fourth category of its own. In each and every sura the very highest level of every attribute was achieved all at once. The Qur'an was renowned for its ability to covey an extraordinary depth of meaning in just a few words. All while maintaining excellence in all characteristics of the language. It was in a league of its own, a league no man could produce even one small piece of in the same style.

As a further example in Arabic there are sixteen forms of poetry, sixteen al-Bihar , literally “seas” so-called because of the way the poem moves, according to a rhythm.

In Arabic poetry each one is more suited to one or a few of the above mentioned characteristics at the expense of the others. The Qur'an achieved an unparalleled excellence throughout in all considerations. Thus it transcended any of the Bihar , any prose or rhymed prose.

This is why the Arabs were shaken by what they heard, and many converted upon hearing the spoken words. For them it was akin to seeing the moon split into two.

More on the nature of the Miracle

The Qur'an literary qualities are at a level beyond man's ability to replicate it. To break this down further we can characterize Qur'an's style [ usloob ] into three qualities:

a) Force [Quwwah ]

b) Beauty [Jamaal ]

c) Clarity [wudooh ]

The language has a force which has an impact on the one who listens to its verses. It brings tears of ecstasy, fear and hope to the heart which contemplates its meanings. With regards to the force the following narration by Ibn Hisham epitomizes this point. He narrated that Jubayr b. Mut'im b. iddi came to the Messenger of Allah [saw] regarding Mu'anna [an ally of the polytheists] in order to ransom him. When he came into the room the Prophet [saw] was reciting Sura at-Tur to him and when he [saw] came to the section:

“Verily, the Torment of your Lord will surely come to pass” [TMQ at-Tur: 7]

“There is none that can avert it;” [TMQ at-Tur: 8]

The polytheist began to shake and then embraced Islam and explained his sudden behaviour by saying: ‘I feared that the torment [ ‘azaab ] would come upon me'.

If Allah, the totally non existant arabian-pagan moon god wants the whole world to be islamic, then why didnt he/she/it just make it like that to begin with and save us all a whole lot of trouble?

[scooby85]

I find it amusing how Islam is often championed as supremely 'rational' but then we find hilarious elements like the rule that eating with your left hand is basically evil because Shaytaan does it. Yeah, that's the epitome of reason there, LOL.

He didn't even do THAT! God never speaks to Mohammed. Instead, the mediator, the mysterious 'angel Gabriel', does it all.

At least with Jesus we get the idea that God is speaking through the man, because of an internal spiritual connection. And with Moses God is speaking directly to him, not through some intermediary.


This is a total non-sequitor.

well the quran cant be from a human being, or satan/e.t as i proved that in my previous posts so it must be from god so how does that not make sense? oh and its spelt non-sequitur. :rolleyes:

and is that what all u can come out with?? haha how petty but i applaud ur efforts..muslims eat with their right hand and clean up with their left hand after using the toilet.. now shaitan does most things opposite to a muslim and is generally thought to be a dirty being so therefore it makes perfect sense.. you see i dont really like the idea of eating with the same hand i wipe off my shit wit even after washing it properly but i dont know about, u mite do.

ok so you are trying to say muhammad pbuh wrote the quran? A man who was illiterate came up with a book that even the scholars of the arabian language were amazed by?? lol :D and he made predictions at a time where you would've needed modern technology to predict those things the quran said which i stated in my previous posts??

Now you are really struggling my friend, just because god spoke with moses doesnt necessarily mean he has to speak with muhammad, he didnt speak to many other prophets too, jacob, jonah, aaron, john, noah etc pbut but spoke thru an intermediary to them (possibly angel gabriel but im not sure). the quran in itself is a miracle, like iv pointed out before its not possible for it to be from a human, even non muslims scholars/scientists who have studied the scientific aspects of the quran have said that it must be from god/allah, the embryologist Prof. Keith Moore comes to mind.

[scooby85]

If Allah, the totally non existant arabian-pagan moon god wants the whole world to be islamic, then why didnt he/she/it just make it like that to begin with and save us all a whole lot of trouble?

can you please try to use at least a few brain cells in your next post..

How can allah be a moon god when he has said he made everything that exists including the moon?? And allah is the same god as the god jews and christians believe in. he is the god whom all the prophets worshipped, moses, jesus, muhammad..

And reason why he didnt make the whole world islamic to start off with is because maybe that would kind of defeat the purpose of our existence?? life is a test, we have to earn our reward. u make it sound like god needs us.. god doesnt need us but we need him, it does not matter to him if he has a few followers or whether he has billions. Its up to you to use the brain he has given you to find him.


I dont even no why im wasting my time replying to u, judging u by ur post u dont sound very intelligent..to put it nicely.

[picha]

well the quran cant be from a human being, or satan/e.t as i proved that in my previous posts so it must be from god so how does that not make sense? oh and its spelt non-sequitur. :rolleyes:

and is that what all u can come out with?? haha how petty but i applaud ur efforts..muslims eat with their right hand and clean up with their left hand after using the toilet.. now shaitan does most things opposite to a muslim and is generally thought to be a dirty being so therefore it makes perfect sense.. you see i dont really like the idea of eating with the same hand i wipe off my shit wit even after washing it properly but i dont know about, u mite do.

ok so you are trying to say muhammad pbuh wrote the quran? A man who was illiterate came up with a book that even the scholars of the arabian language were amazed by?? lol :D and he made predictions at a time where you would've needed modern technology to predict those things the quran said which i stated in my previous posts??

Now you are really struggling my friend, just because god spoke with moses doesnt necessarily mean he has to speak with muhammad, he didnt speak to many other prophets too, jacob, jonah, aaron, john, noah etc pbut but spoke thru an intermediary to them (possibly angel gabriel but im not sure). the quran in itself is a miracle, like iv pointed out before its not possible for it to be from a human, even non muslims scholars/scientists who have studied the scientific aspects of the quran have said that it must be from god/allah, the embryologist Prof. Keith Moore comes to mind.

Are you referring to quranic 'science' such as 'the sun sets in a muddy pool', 'a fly carries a disease on 1 wing and a cure on the other' and 'sperm is produced in the ribs' (which was an inccorect plagarised greek theory) 'and the earth is egg shaped'.

The reason why allah is a moon god is because allah is the name of the moon god which was the highest god the pagan arabs worshipped before mohammed got them to only worship 1 god, the highest god allah.

Please stop being so gullible and believing in this invisible man in the sky who watching everything you do.

Its obvious mohammed created his religion just so he could satisfy his own desires.

By the way, im not going to insult you like you did me on a previous post, im just trying to help you see how youve been duped big time.

[scooby85]

Are you referring to quranic 'science' such as 'the sun sets in a muddy pool', 'a fly carries a disease on 1 wing and a cure on the other' and 'sperm is produced in the ribs' (which was an inccorect plagarised greek theory) 'and the earth is egg shaped'.

The reason why allah is a moon god is because allah is the name of the moon god which was the highest god the pagan arabs worshipped before mohammed got them to only worship 1 god, the highest god allah.

Please stop being so gullible and believing in this invisible man in the sky who watching everything you do.

Its obvious mohammed created his religion just so he could satisfy his own desires.

By the way, im not going to insult you like you did me on a previous post, im just trying to help you see how youve been duped big time.



Right ur still not using many brain cells.. In the quran it tells us time after time the that the earth orbits the sun, and no where in the quran does it say in sets in a muddy pool, it does mention it in a story where allah does not mention that rather zul qarnain, “Till, when he reached the setting place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout: We said: O Zul Qarnain! Either punish or show them kindness.” (Al-Kahf: 86)

Here is a brief commentary to the above verse as mentioned in the books of tafseer (exegesis of Qur’an):

“Till, when he reached the setting place of the sun…”, means that Zul Qarnain followed a route until he reached the furthest point that could be reached in the direction of the sun’s setting, which is the west of the earth. As for the idea of his reaching the place in the sky where the sun sets, this is something impossible, and the tales told by storytellers that he traveled so far to the west that the sun set behind him are not true at all. Most of those stories come from the myths of the People of the Book and the fabrications and lies of their heretics.

“he found it setting in a muddy spring…” means that he saw the sun as if it were setting in the ocean. This is something that everyone who goes to the coast or beach can see: it looks as if the sun is setting into the sea, but in fact it never leaves its path in which it is fixed as stated in the quran on many occasions. The muddy spring or hami’ah is derived from the word hama’ah which means ‘mud’.



Your telling me not to be gullible, how about u practice what u preach.. How can allah be a pagan moon god when he created all that exists in the heaven and the earth? One of the main points about islam is that is is AGAINST pagan idol worship very strongly, muhammad pbuh when he was chosen, went into the kaaba and smashed all the pagan idols that the arabian people used to worship in there, idol worship is possibly the biggest sin in islam. Iv heard stories where people have said hes a rock god/a sun god/fire god etc its all bollocks probably started by someone like you who hates islam. And the moon and crescent in the islam logo has nothing to do with islam, islam has no signs unlike other religions.

Like I said the quran can not be from a man/spririts/satan, iv proved it in my previous posts.. then who is it by?? certainly not from a moon god either lol

u mentioned that the quran says the earth is egg shaped.. ur right but it mentions that it is an ostrich egg shaped 'And the earth, moreover, Hath He made ostrich egg shaped' 79:30 further proving the divinity of the quran, this statement was made when people believed the earth was flat. an ostrich egg is not like a normal egg but is symmetrical, the shapes called an oblate sphereoid.

and the thing about the fly.. Its been proven that a fly has the antidote well as the virus/germs in its body so uv been made to look a fool... again and again. That point proves that if a fly falls into ur drink, the bacteria/germs would spread but dunk it in and the anti-viral properties of the fly helps counteract/kill some of the bacteria.. You tried to make islam look silly with that point and if anything youve just proved the authenticty of the prophethood of muhammad pbuh thank u very much for bringing that up :)


So far you have either lied or significantly twisted the truth, theres no difference with ur next point as well, u said the sperms are made in the ribs...NO WHERE in the quran does it say that.. it says :

So let man consider from what he is created. He is created from a gushing fluid That issued from BETWEEN the loins and ribs.. heres a furhter breakdown of the verse : sulb and tara’ib refer to the backbone and ribs of both sexes, however the verses refers only to the gonads in the embryonic stage, and not to adults in the act of sexual reproduction.


And finally u say muhammad created the religion for his own benefit? Im beginning to think ur either menatlly ill, or hate islam so much you have to make up lies about it. what it is with u, did u get raped by a muslim man or something> lol Why would muhammad fight in many wars and battles where he risked his life, why would he spend over 20 years to write the quran? And for what benefit??? He was known as the trusted one by everyone who knew him ever since he was a kid.. the fact the quran was revealed thru him and the fact he didnt die in the many wars he had, and didnt get killed by the thousands of enemies he had at that time PROVES he is a prophet...

Now il let u go and find sum more crap from www.anti-islam.com, www.imscaredofislam.com and www.islamic-lies.com you are on a mission to dismiss islam but millions of people have tried without success and you aint gona be one, ul just make urself look even stupider, if thats possible

[pinkfreud]

lol.. i see this thread is still at it.

if you would have read icke's, as well as other researchers' work, you would be wise enough to know all religions are but a trap to enslave our minds and our consciousness.

'god' didn't speak to muhammed, jesus, moses, arjun (in hinduism) blah blah blah.. please. open your eyes and see for yourself that religious texts are nothing but a shadowy interpretation of what the e.t. beings have done to trap our spirits. no matter how 'beautifully' they have been written.

if you are still here insisting on on the 'glory' of this text, and pushing such opinions down other people's throats, i wonder what you are doing on a d.i. forum, of all places.

[mephibosheth]

well the quran cant be from a human being, or satan/e.t as i proved that in my previous posts so it must be from god so how does that not make sense?

There is nothing 'proved'. Just because there is a document, written in Arabic, that Arab poets couldn't match, doesn't mean it was 'written by God'. Thats the part that doesn't follow. Its one thing to say 'Mohammed didn't write the Qur'an', its quite another to say it was penned by a divine being that has no form and is beyond the realm of mortals.

Not to mention the fact that the Qur'an wasn't 'completed' as a text until some 200 years after Mohammed's death, based on choices made by men, just like all the other scriptures that came before it...


and is that what all u can come out with?? haha how petty but i applaud ur efforts..muslims eat with their right hand and clean up with their left hand after using the toilet.. now shaitan does most things opposite to a muslim and is generally thought to be a dirty being so therefore it makes perfect sense.. you see i dont really like the idea of eating with the same hand i wipe off my shit wit even after washing it properly but i dont know about, u mite do.


Hahah..this is precisely why these rules are ridiculous.

Proper hygiene negates this retardedness. It's called 'washing your hands'. In our modern society, we have things like soap and toilet paper to deal with excrement. In a more ancient culture without access to these amenities, this sort of rule might make sense. But as a universal law--its nonsense. And its biased against left-handed people, which is completely irrational, no matter what 'Shaytaan' does, LOL.



ok so you are trying to say muhammad pbuh wrote the quran? A man who was illiterate came up with a book that even the scholars of the arabian language were amazed by?? lol :D and he made predictions at a time where you would've needed modern technology to predict those things the quran said which i stated in my previous posts??


All those things can be debated. And you have to take it on faith that Mohammed was illiterate, don't you. And again, like I said above, even if he didn't compose the poetry, it DOESN'T FOLLOW that 'GOD' did.


8)

[mephibosheth]

If Allah, the totally non existant arabian-pagan moon god wants the whole world to be islamic, then why didnt he/she/it just make it like that to begin with and save us all a whole lot of trouble?

Because demiurges don't usually plan things out...they just explode with creation, and then 'fix' it later according to their whims.

But hey, don't you know--everyone is born Muslim!! And it's YOUR poor choices that have led you away from that natural heritage. So, bam, I guess Islam got the better of you again! Allah knows best.

[picha]

Right ur still not using many brain cells.. In the quran it tells us time after time the that the earth orbits the sun, and no where in the quran does it say in sets in a muddy pool, it does mention it in a story where allah does not mention that rather zul qarnain, “Till, when he reached the setting place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout: We said: O Zul Qarnain! Either punish or show them kindness.” (Al-Kahf: 86)

Here is a brief commentary to the above verse as mentioned in the books of tafseer (exegesis of Qur’an):

“Till, when he reached the setting place of the sun…”, means that Zul Qarnain followed a route until he reached the furthest point that could be reached in the direction of the sun’s setting, which is the west of the earth. As for the idea of his reaching the place in the sky where the sun sets, this is something impossible, and the tales told by storytellers that he traveled so far to the west that the sun set behind him are not true at all. Most of those stories come from the myths of the People of the Book and the fabrications and lies of their heretics.

“he found it setting in a muddy spring…” means that he saw the sun as if it were setting in the ocean. This is something that everyone who goes to the coast or beach can see: it looks as if the sun is setting into the sea, but in fact it never leaves its path in which it is fixed as stated in the quran on many occasions. The muddy spring or hami’ah is derived from the word hama’ah which means ‘mud’.



Your telling me not to be gullible, how about u practice what u preach.. How can allah be a pagan moon god when he created all that exists in the heaven and the earth? One of the main points about islam is that is is AGAINST pagan idol worship very strongly, muhammad pbuh when he was chosen, went into the kaaba and smashed all the pagan idols that the arabian people used to worship in there, idol worship is possibly the biggest sin in islam. Iv heard stories where people have said hes a rock god/a sun god/fire god etc its all bollocks probably started by someone like you who hates islam. And the moon and crescent in the islam logo has nothing to do with islam, islam has no signs unlike other religions.

Like I said the quran can not be from a man/spririts/satan, iv proved it in my previous posts.. then who is it by?? certainly not from a moon god either lol

u mentioned that the quran says the earth is egg shaped.. ur right but it mentions that it is an ostrich egg shaped 'And the earth, moreover, Hath He made ostrich egg shaped' 79:30 further proving the divinity of the quran, this statement was made when people believed the earth was flat. an ostrich egg is not like a normal egg but is symmetrical, the shapes called an oblate sphereoid.

and the thing about the fly.. Its been proven that a fly has the antidote well as the virus/germs in its body so uv been made to look a fool... again and again. That point proves that if a fly falls into ur drink, the bacteria/germs would spread but dunk it in and the anti-viral properties of the fly helps counteract/kill some of the bacteria.. You tried to make islam look silly with that point and if anything youve just proved the authenticty of the prophethood of muhammad pbuh thank u very much for bringing that up :)


So far you have either lied or significantly twisted the truth, theres no difference with ur next point as well, u said the sperms are made in the ribs...NO WHERE in the quran does it say that.. it says :

So let man consider from what he is created. He is created from a gushing fluid That issued from BETWEEN the loins and ribs.. heres a furhter breakdown of the verse : sulb and tara’ib refer to the backbone and ribs of both sexes, however the verses refers only to the gonads in the embryonic stage, and not to adults in the act of sexual reproduction.


And finally u say muhammad created the religion for his own benefit? Im beginning to think ur either menatlly ill, or hate islam so much you have to make up lies about it. what it is with u, did u get raped by a muslim man or something> lol Why would muhammad fight in many wars and battles where he risked his life, why would he spend over 20 years to write the quran? And for what benefit??? He was known as the trusted one by everyone who knew him ever since he was a kid.. the fact the quran was revealed thru him and the fact he didnt die in the many wars he had, and didnt get killed by the thousands of enemies he had at that time PROVES he is a prophet...

Now il let u go and find sum more crap from www.anti-islam.com, www.imscaredofislam.com and www.islamic-lies.com you are on a mission to dismiss islam but millions of people have tried without success and you aint gona be one, ul just make urself look even stupider, if thats possible


You keep on banging on about me supposedly not being very intelligent, so if you think allah created everything then he also created unintelligent me, so your kind of criticising allah there by saying one of his creations is somehow inadequate.
Ill respond to the rest of your medieval fuckwittery when I have more time.

[lhaull]

If you believe in this stuff, I have no problem with it.
Same with Christians believing in their stuff.
I just demand the same freedom from you as I afford to you, which is namely The freedom to find my own truths outside the spheres of Islam and Christianity and to do so without being attacked by Islam or Christianity for doing so.


Love to all.

[eternal_spirit]

The Qur’an says Jihad receives the highest reward and is the surest way to paradise if the "fighter" dies: "Think not of those who are slain in Allah’s way as dead … they live … in the presence of their Lord" (Qur’an 3:169). "… To him who fighteth in the cause of Allah … soon shall we {God} give him a reward" (Qur’an 4:74).
According to Muslim doctrine, to deny Allah and Muhammad's exclusive right to be believed in and adored is a terrible crime. Having established the ‘best religion’ that abrogates all others, the Prophet undeniably prescribed that the correct course of action against non-believers is to fight them. Since the biggest crime any person or nation can commit is denial of Islam, it is quite clear the true solution to the problem has been dictated to be perpetual war (Jihad) against such renegades. Based upon Islamic scholars’ writings, it appears undeniable that violent Jihad is permitted in Islam for both offensive and defensive purposes. It was commanded by, and praised by Muhammad as being one of the greatest forms of true Islamic spirituality. Further, some of the final direction from Muhammad was that that Jihad is to continue until all people are subjected to Islamic rule. Offensive aggression toward non-Muslims is clearly and unashamedly allowed, but prior to attacking, the Muslims are to offer them a choice: 1- Become Muslim; 2- do not become Muslim but pay the extortion (Jizya) tax; 3- defend yourself unto death.
Jihad embodies both an ideology and a jurisdiction, formally conceived by Muslim legal experts and theologians from the 8th to 9th centuries onward, based on their interpretation of Qur’anic verses and long chapters in the Traditions (the hadith). The consensus on the nature of jihad from all four schools of Sunni Islamic jurisprudence (Maliki, Hanbali, Hanafi, and Shafi’i) is clear:
Ibn Abi Zayd al-Qayrawani (Maliki),
Jihad is a precept of Divine institution. Its performance by certain individuals may dispense others from it. We Malikis (one of the four schools of Muslim jurisprudence) maintain that it is preferable not to begin hostilities with the enemy before having invited the latter to embrace the religion of Allah except where the enemy attacks first. They have the alternative of either converting to Islam or paying the poll tax (jizya), short of which war will be declared against them. [14]




http://www.islamundressed.com/

[eternal_spirit]

Muslim group behind ‘mega-mosque’ seeks to convert all Britain


A Muslim group that wants to open a giant £100 million mosque in London has set its sights on “winning the whole of Britain to Islam”.
Tablighi Jamaat aims to build an Islamic complex near to the site of the 2012 Olympic stadium, with a mosque for 12,000 people, by far the largest religious building in Britain.
The organisation, which has millions of followers worldwide, insists that it is a peaceful, apolitical revivalist movement that promotes Islamic consciousness among individual Muslims. However, intelligence agencies have cautioned that the group’s ability to fire young men with a zeal for Islam acts as a staging post, for some, along a path that leads to jihadist terrorism.



http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/com...cle2419524.ece (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article2419524.ece)

[eternal_spirit]

So seems if Islam has it's way Britain and the whole Planet will be under Shariah Islamic Laws.
Islam should bee banned immediately from all none Islamic Countries in the interest of the future of humans who want a choice to reject Shariah Islamic Laws for the evil it truly is.

[eternal_spirit]

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41526


http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41649

The big question is - How many Muslims live and follow the Islamic laws strictly? If millions or is it 1 and a half Billion? Then the none Muslims are in for a rough future. It's said to be the fastest growing religion.

If there's many none strict (moderate Muslims) who don't strictly follow Islamic Shariah Law then there's hope yet.

Which of the two is it?

[elirien]

The Qur’an says Jihad receives the highest reward and is the surest way to paradise if the "fighter" dies: "Think not of those who are slain in Allah’s way as dead … they live … in the presence of their Lord" (Qur’an 3:169). "… To him who fighteth in the cause of Allah … soon shall we {God} give him a reward" (Qur’an 4:74).
According to Muslim doctrine, to deny Allah and Muhammad's exclusive right to be believed in and adored is a terrible crime. Having established the ‘best religion’ that abrogates all others, the Prophet undeniably prescribed that the correct course of action against non-believers is to fight them. Since the biggest crime any person or nation can commit is denial of Islam, it is quite clear the true solution to the problem has been dictated to be perpetual war (Jihad) against such renegades. Based upon Islamic scholars’ writings, it appears undeniable that violent Jihad is permitted in Islam for both offensive and defensive purposes. It was commanded by, and praised by Muhammad as being one of the greatest forms of true Islamic spirituality. Further, some of the final direction from Muhammad was that that Jihad is to continue until all people are subjected to Islamic rule. Offensive aggression toward non-Muslims is clearly and unashamedly allowed, but prior to attacking, the Muslims are to offer them a choice: 1- Become Muslim; 2- do not become Muslim but pay the extortion (Jizya) tax; 3- defend yourself unto death.
Jihad embodies both an ideology and a jurisdiction, formally conceived by Muslim legal experts and theologians from the 8th to 9th centuries onward, based on their interpretation of Qur’anic verses and long chapters in the Traditions (the hadith). The consensus on the nature of jihad from all four schools of Sunni Islamic jurisprudence (Maliki, Hanbali, Hanafi, and Shafi’i) is clear:
Ibn Abi Zayd al-Qayrawani (Maliki),
Jihad is a precept of Divine institution. Its performance by certain individuals may dispense others from it. We Malikis (one of the four schools of Muslim jurisprudence) maintain that it is preferable not to begin hostilities with the enemy before having invited the latter to embrace the religion of Allah except where the enemy attacks first. They have the alternative of either converting to Islam or paying the poll tax (jizya), short of which war will be declared against them. [14]




http://www.islamundressed.com/

I'm not sure about you eternal spirit but this has got to be the worst interpretation of any religious scripture since the vatican.

Remember, "Eph:6:12: For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."

Which the Qur'an acknowledges with:

Al-Ma'idah (The Table Spread)

5:68 Say: "O followers of the bible! You have no valid ground for your beliefs -unless you [truly] observe the Torah and the Gospel, and all that has been bestowed from on high upon you by your Sustainer!"

Jihad is with principalities, not slaughtering people for their beliefs. It's plain idiocy to see this as a battle with swords and guns. It is how idiots are being tricked to kill people in Iraq with the humanist democracy doctrine. Jihad is something utterly different. It is to protect your belief and you can't protect your belief by attacking others. Truth is the sword for this and all of us here are sharpening our swords to battle all deception. I can't see any difference between Jihad and this forum.

[eternal_spirit]

These Moslems are only being true to their Koran:Surah 2:187 "Kill them wherever ye shall find them"
Surah 5:37 "the recompense of those who war against Allah..they shall be slain or crucified, or have their alternate hands and feet cut off"
Surah 8:12 "Strike off their heads then, and strike off from them every finger-tip"
Surah 8:40 "Fight against them till strife be at an end and the religion be all of it Allah's"
Surah 9:5 "and when the sacred months are passed, kill those who join other gods with Allah wherever ye shall find them; and seize them, besiege them, and lay wait for them with every kind of ambush: but if they shall convert, and observe prayer, and pay the alms, then let them go."
Surah 9:14 "So make war on them"
Surah 9:29 "Make war upon such of those whom the scripture have been given as believe not in Allah…until they pay tribute our of hand and they be humbled."
Surah 33:61 "Cursed wherever they are found; they shall be seized and slain with slaughter."
Surah 47:4 "When ye encounter the infidels, strike off their heads till ye have made a great slaughter among them, and of the rest make fast the fetters."
Surah 108:2 "Pray therefor to the Lord, and slay the victims."

There was an influential booklet called The Neglected Duty by Muhammad 'Abd al-Salam Faraj (d.1982), which argues that the Muslim's call to jihad is a "neglected duty" which trumps even the five "Pillars of Islam" (faith, prayer, charity, fasting, and pilgrimage). It denounces the view of jihad as an internal struggle of conscience. It also identifies lukewarm Muslims as equally deserving of death as non-Muslims. It has been translated into English with commentary by Prof. Johannes Jansen.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1126378/posts

[elirien]

These Moslems are only being true to their Koran:Surah 2:187 "Kill them wherever ye shall find them"
Surah 5:37 "the recompense of those who war against Allah..they shall be slain or crucified, or have their alternate hands and feet cut off"
Surah 8:12 "Strike off their heads then, and strike off from them every finger-tip"
Surah 8:40 "Fight against them till strife be at an end and the religion be all of it Allah's"
Surah 9:5 "and when the sacred months are passed, kill those who join other gods with Allah wherever ye shall find them; and seize them, besiege them, and lay wait for them with every kind of ambush: but if they shall convert, and observe prayer, and pay the alms, then let them go."
Surah 9:14 "So make war on them"
Surah 9:29 "Make war upon such of those whom the scripture have been given as believe not in Allah…until they pay tribute our of hand and they be humbled."
Surah 33:61 "Cursed wherever they are found; they shall be seized and slain with slaughter."
Surah 47:4 "When ye encounter the infidels, strike off their heads till ye have made a great slaughter among them, and of the rest make fast the fetters."
Surah 108:2 "Pray therefor to the Lord, and slay the victims."

There was an influential booklet called The Neglected Duty by Muhammad 'Abd al-Salam Faraj (d.1982), which argues that the Muslim's call to jihad is a "neglected duty" which trumps even the five "Pillars of Islam" (faith, prayer, charity, fasting, and pilgrimage). It denounces the view of jihad as an internal struggle of conscience. It also identifies lukewarm Muslims as equally deserving of death as non-Muslims. It has been translated into English with commentary by Prof. Johannes Jansen.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1126378/posts

Surah 2:187:


It is made lawful for you to go unto your wives on the night of the fast. They are raiment for you and ye are raiment for them. Allah is Aware that ye were deceiving yourselves in this respect and He hath turned in mercy toward you and relieved you. So hold intercourse with them and seek that which Allah hath ordained for you, and eat and drink until the white thread becometh distinct to you from the black thread of the dawn. Then strictly observe the fast till nightfall and touch them not, but be at your devotions in the mosques. These are the limits imposed by Allah, so approach them not. Thus Allah expoundeth His revelation to mankind that they may ward off (evil). (187)

Surah 5:37:

They will wish to come forth from the Fire, but they will not come forth from it. Theirs will be a lasting doom. (37)

Surah 8:12

When thy Lord inspired the angels, (saying): I am with you. So make those who believe stand firm. I will throw fear into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Then smite the necks and smite of them each finger. (12)

commentary:
I.e., "destroy them utterly".(Quran Ref: 8:12 )

elirien comment: isn't fear what the illuminati is based upon? didn't the creator also create them?


Surah 8:40

And if they turn away, then know that Allah is your Befriender - a transcendent Patron, a transcendent Helper! (40)

Surah 9:5

Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. (5)

commentary:

Read in conjunction with the two preceding verses, as well as with 2:190-194, the above verse relates to warfare already in progress with people who have become guilty of a breach of treaty obligations and of aggression.(Quran Ref: 9:5 )

I.e., "do everything that may be necessary and advisable in denotes "any place from which it is possible to perceive The term marsad enemy and to observe his the movements" (Manar X, 199). warfare".(Quran Ref: 9:5 )

As I have pointed out on more than one occasion, every verse of the Qur’an must be read and interpreted against the background of the Qur'an as a whole. The above verse, which speaks of a possible conversion to Islam on the part of "those who ascribe divinity to aught beside God" with whom the believers are at war, must, therefore, be considered in conjunction with several fundamental Qur'anic ordinances. One of them, "There shall be no coercion in matters of faith" (2:256), lays down categorically that any attempt at a forcible conversion of unbelievers is prohibited - which precludes the possibility of the Muslims' demanding or expecting that a defeated enemy should embrace Islam as the price of immunity. Secondly, the Qur'an ordains, "Fight in God's cause against those who wage war against you; but do not commit aggression, for, verily, God does not love aggressors" (2:190); and, "if they do not let you be, and do not offer you peace, and do not stay their hands, seize them and slay them whenever you come upon them: and it is against these that We have clearly empowered you [to make war]" (4:91). Thus, war is permissible only in self-defence (see surah 2, notes 167 and 168), with the further proviso that "if they desist-behold, God is much-forgiving, a dispenser of grace" (2:192), and "if they desist, then all hostility shall cease" (2:193). Now the enemy's conversion to Islam - expressed in the words, "if they repent, and take to prayer [lit., "establish prayer"] and render the purifying dues (zakah)"-is no more than one, and by no means the only, way of their "desisting from hostility"; and the reference to it in verses 5 and 11 of this surah certainly does not imply an alternative of "conversion or death", as some unfriendly critics of Islam choose to assume. Verses 4 and 6 give a further elucidation of the attitude which the believers are enjoined to adopt towards such of the unbelievers as are not hostile to them. (In this connection, see also 60:8-9).(Quran Ref: 9:5 )

Surah 9:14:

Fight them! Allah will chastise them at your hands, and He will lay them low and give you victory over them, and He will heal the breasts of folk who are believers. (14)

elirien commentary: same surah. so again defending yourself is the thing imho.

Surah 9:29

9:29 [And] fight against those who - despite having been vouchsafed revelation [aforetime] [40] -do not [truly] believe either in God or the Last Day, and do not consider forbidden that which God and His Apostle have forbidden, [41] and do not follow the religion of truth [which God has enjoined upon them] [42] till they [agree to] pay the exemption tax with a willing hand, after having been humbled [in war]. [43]

Surah 33:61

Accursed, they will be seized wherever found and slain with a (fierce) slaughter. (61)

elirien commentary: the surah doesn't say by whom. i think it means getting slayed by their own men (the disbelievers). there is also no commentary in the site that i use.

surah 47:4

Now when ye meet in battle those who disbelieve, then it is smiting of the necks until, when ye have routed them, then making fast of bonds; and afterward either grace or ransom till the war lay down its burdens. That (is the ordinance). And if Allah willed He could have punished them (without you) but (thus it is ordained) that He may try some of you by means of others. And those who are slain in the way of Allah, He rendereth not their actions vain. (4)

commentary:

Sc., "and on barring [others] from the path of God" - thus connecting with verse 1 and laying down the fundamental condition which alone justifies physical warfare: namely, a defense of the Faith and of freedom (cf. in this connection see note 167 on 2:190). In other words, when "those who are bent on denying the truth" try to deprive the Muslims of their social and political liberty and thus to make it impossible for them to live in accordance with the principles of their faith, a just war (jihad) becomes allowable and, more than that, a duty. The whole of the above verse relates to war actually in progress (cf. note 168 on the first part of 2:191); and there is no doubt that it was revealed after 22:39-40, the earliest Quranic reference to physical warfare.(Quran Ref: 47:4 )

Lit., "tighten the bond". According to almost all the commentators, this expression denotes the taking of prisoners of war. In addition, it may also refer to any sanctions or safeguards which would make it unlikely that the aggression could be resumed in the foreseeable future.(Quran Ref: 47:4 )

Lit., "so that (hatta) the war may lay down its burdens". The term "ransom" comprises also, in this context, a mutual exchange of prisoners of war (Zamakhshari , quoting an opinion of Imam Ash-Shafi’i).(Quran Ref: 47:4 )

I.e., so as to enable the believers to prove by actual deeds the depth of their faith and their readiness for self-sacrifice, and to enable the aggressors to realize how wrong they have been, and thus to bring them closer to the truth.(Quran Ref: 47:4 )


surah 108:2

So pray unto thy Lord, and sacrifice. (2)


Thanks for the inspiration to research this.

What do you think eternal spirit? Perhaps my theory of just spiritual jihad is just the half of it. Protecting your rights is perhaps also a form of jihad.

sources:

http://www.quranexplorer.com
http://www.islamicity.com/Quransearch/

[snoopsnuffleopagus]

I'm not sure about you eternal spirit but this has got to be the worst interpretation of any religious scripture since the vatican.

Remember, "Eph:6:12: For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."

Which the Qur'an acknowledges with:

Al-Ma'idah (The Table Spread)

5:68 Say: "O followers of the bible! You have no valid ground for your beliefs -unless you [truly] observe the Torah and the Gospel, and all that has been bestowed from on high upon you by your Sustainer!"

Jihad is with principalities, not slaughtering people for their beliefs. It's plain idiocy to see this as a battle with swords and guns. It is how idiots are being tricked to kill people in Iraq with the humanist democracy doctrine. Jihad is something utterly different. It is to protect your belief and you can't protect your belief by attacking others. Truth is the sword for this and all of us here are sharpening our swords to battle all deception. I can't see any difference between Jihad and this forum.


Hi Elirien; this Post is so excellent I logged in to say: Thank You very much.

Two citations and you said it all.

The Principalities of Darkness domain is the Carnal; Lust of the Flesh.

Yahwism and Islam are about Self-Discipline and Self-Restraint, thus preserving the Health; Safety and Welfare of the Individual and the Tribe.

I 'Know' my 'Battle' is within.

Thank You! Great Post!

The Wisdom of the Cherokee

An elder Cherokee Native American was teaching his grandchildren about life.
He said to them, "A fight is going on inside me... It is a terrible fight, and it is between two wolves.

One wolf represents fear, anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, pride and superiority.

The other wolf stands for joy, peace, love, hope, sharing, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, friendship, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion, and faith.

This same fight is going on inside of you and every other person too."

They thought about it for a minute and then one child asked his grandfather, "Which wolf will win?"

The old Cherokee simply replied, "The one I feed."

[elirien]

Hi Elirien; this Post is so excellent I logged in to say: Thank You very much.

Two citations and you said it all.

The Principalities of Darkness domain is the Carnal; Lust of the Flesh.

Yahwism and Islam are about Self-Discipline and Self-Restraint, thus preserving the Health; Safety and Welfare of the Individual and the Tribe.

I 'Know' my 'Battle' is within.

Thank You! Great Post!

The Wisdom of the Cherokee

An elder Cherokee Native American was teaching his grandchildren about life.
He said to them, "A fight is going on inside me... It is a terrible fight, and it is between two wolves.

One wolf represents fear, anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, pride and superiority.

The other wolf stands for joy, peace, love, hope, sharing, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, friendship, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion, and faith.

This same fight is going on inside of you and every other person too."

They thought about it for a minute and then one child asked his grandfather, "Which wolf will win?"

The old Cherokee simply replied, "The one I feed."


That's it dude! I couldn't even dream about such a wise connection. Lol. I'm speechless :D

Thank you very very much.

[eternal_spirit]

Surah 2:187:



Surah 5:37:



Surah 8:12



commentary:
I.e., "destroy them utterly".(Quran Ref: 8:12 )

elirien comment: isn't fear what the illuminati is based upon? didn't the creator also create them?


Surah 8:40



Surah 9:5



commentary:

Read in conjunction with the two preceding verses, as well as with 2:190-194, the above verse relates to warfare already in progress with people who have become guilty of a breach of treaty obligations and of aggression.(Quran Ref: 9:5 )

I.e., "do everything that may be necessary and advisable in denotes "any place from which it is possible to perceive The term marsad enemy and to observe his the movements" (Manar X, 199). warfare".(Quran Ref: 9:5 )

As I have pointed out on more than one occasion, every verse of the Qur’an must be read and interpreted against the background of the Qur'an as a whole. The above verse, which speaks of a possible conversion to Islam on the part of "those who ascribe divinity to aught beside God" with whom the believers are at war, must, therefore, be considered in conjunction with several fundamental Qur'anic ordinances. One of them, "There shall be no coercion in matters of faith" (2:256), lays down categorically that any attempt at a forcible conversion of unbelievers is prohibited - which precludes the possibility of the Muslims' demanding or expecting that a defeated enemy should embrace Islam as the price of immunity. Secondly, the Qur'an ordains, "Fight in God's cause against those who wage war against you; but do not commit aggression, for, verily, God does not love aggressors" (2:190); and, "if they do not let you be, and do not offer you peace, and do not stay their hands, seize them and slay them whenever you come upon them: and it is against these that We have clearly empowered you [to make war]" (4:91). Thus, war is permissible only in self-defence (see surah 2, notes 167 and 168), with the further proviso that "if they desist-behold, God is much-forgiving, a dispenser of grace" (2:192), and "if they desist, then all hostility shall cease" (2:193). Now the enemy's conversion to Islam - expressed in the words, "if they repent, and take to prayer [lit., "establish prayer"] and render the purifying dues (zakah)"-is no more than one, and by no means the only, way of their "desisting from hostility"; and the reference to it in verses 5 and 11 of this surah certainly does not imply an alternative of "conversion or death", as some unfriendly critics of Islam choose to assume. Verses 4 and 6 give a further elucidation of the attitude which the believers are enjoined to adopt towards such of the unbelievers as are not hostile to them. (In this connection, see also 60:8-9).(Quran Ref: 9:5 )

Surah 9:14:



elirien commentary: same surah. so again defending yourself is the thing imho.

Surah 9:29



Surah 33:61



elirien commentary: the surah doesn't say by whom. i think it means getting slayed by their own men (the disbelievers). there is also no commentary in the site that i use.

surah 47:4



commentary:

Sc., "and on barring [others] from the path of God" - thus connecting with verse 1 and laying down the fundamental condition which alone justifies physical warfare: namely, a defense of the Faith and of freedom (cf. in this connection see note 167 on 2:190). In other words, when "those who are bent on denying the truth" try to deprive the Muslims of their social and political liberty and thus to make it impossible for them to live in accordance with the principles of their faith, a just war (jihad) becomes allowable and, more than that, a duty. The whole of the above verse relates to war actually in progress (cf. note 168 on the first part of 2:191); and there is no doubt that it was revealed after 22:39-40, the earliest Quranic reference to physical warfare.(Quran Ref: 47:4 )

Lit., "tighten the bond". According to almost all the commentators, this expression denotes the taking of prisoners of war. In addition, it may also refer to any sanctions or safeguards which would make it unlikely that the aggression could be resumed in the foreseeable future.(Quran Ref: 47:4 )

Lit., "so that (hatta) the war may lay down its burdens". The term "ransom" comprises also, in this context, a mutual exchange of prisoners of war (Zamakhshari , quoting an opinion of Imam Ash-Shafi’i).(Quran Ref: 47:4 )

I.e., so as to enable the believers to prove by actual deeds the depth of their faith and their readiness for self-sacrifice, and to enable the aggressors to realize how wrong they have been, and thus to bring them closer to the truth.(Quran Ref: 47:4 )


surah 108:2




Thanks for the inspiration to research this.

What do you think eternal spirit? Perhaps my theory of just spiritual jihad is just the half of it. Protecting your rights is perhaps also a form of jihad.

sources:

http://www.quranexplorer.com
http://www.islamicity.com/Quransearch/

Interesting the scriptures are up for debate same as any other religion.

From what I've read so far I don't believe Islam is a peacfull religion just look at Shariah Laws and it's shocking and disturbing that anyone can equate Islam as a source from a loving creator God.

Muslims seem to be amongst the most brainwashed the experiment of Islam to control people has been a great success to the Elite.

[eternal_spirit]

Two citations and you said it all.

The Principalities of Darkness domain is the Carnal; Lust of the Flesh.

Yahwism and Islam are about Self-Discipline and Self-Restraint, thus preserving the Health; Safety and Welfare of the Individual and the Tribe.

I 'Know' my 'Battle' is within.

Thank You! Great Post!




So genital mutilation will help people stop thinking of sex (it's been proved by doctors it's of no health benefit) Yet Islam and Judaism follow religious instructions to continue with mutilation:(

Snoops get real.
Islam advocates child brides, slavery and paedophilia, just like Mohamed did!

Also polygamy the more money means the more wives which means the more children born into Islam (That's another part of their great plan out breed the none Muslims)


In Britain there's loopholes in the Law that only apply to Muslims where they can claim money to support all wives and they just keep on shipping them in.

[elirien]

Interesting the scriptures are up for debate same as any other religion.

From what I've read so far I don't believe Islam is a peacfull religion just look at Shariah Laws and it's shocking and disturbing that anyone can equate Islam as a source from a loving creator God.

Muslims seem to be amongst the most brainwashed the experiment of Islam to control people has been a great success to the Elite.

Well I don't know about Shariah Law which does kind of sound like talmudian beliefs i must say but as far as the quran goes i doubted everything untill I read some of the thing.

I don't believe in Islam, nor am I a christian nor a jew. I don't even care in what others believe in. I am extremely sure that all of the above mentioned organized religions are so to speak infiltrated or 'illumined' like the vatican for example. there is no muslim or masonic electricity. there is just electricity. there is no quantum physics or hermetic truth. there is just truth and there are many sources to find this. I don't even care if people don't want to search for it. But I don't like lies and false representation. I don't even like representation for that matter. Isn't that the idea of humanism anyway?

On how to debate scripture I have just this criteria. Some guy in a pretty brutal environment writes truth in the language and slang so to speak of that time and that area. there is quite a gray area on what he tried to put on paper there since any reader is not the same guy that wrote it. if this happened perhaps in modern days there is the option of speaking in a scientific language optimized for definite translation like mathematics. I don't think neither of them is easy to understand if you don't know mathematics or the language of the before mentioned document. You can have people like Black Islam over there or people knowing the language for a choice. It is yours to take. Like how you can take Michael Heiser or Zecheria Sitchin as a source on Hebrew language or learn the language yourself. You are you and you are free :)

Sorry for the rant :D

[saaduh64]

Well I don't know about Shariah Law which does kind of sound like talmudian beliefs i must say but as far as the quran goes i doubted everything untill I read some of the thing.

I don't believe in Islam, nor am I a christian nor a jew. I don't even care in what others believe in. I am extremely sure that all of the above mentioned organized religions are so to speak infiltrated or 'illumined' like the vatican for example. there is no muslim or masonic electricity. there is just electricity. there is no quantum physics or hermetic truth. there is just truth and there are many sources to find this. I don't even care if people don't want to search for it. But I don't like lies and false representation. I don't even like representation for that matter. Isn't that the idea of humanism anyway?

On how to debate scripture I have just this criteria. Some guy in a pretty brutal environment writes truth in the language and slang so to speak of that time and that area. there is quite a gray area on what he tried to put on paper there since any reader is not the same guy that wrote it. if this happened perhaps in modern days there is the option of speaking in a scientific language optimized for definite translation like mathematics. I don't think neither of them is easy to understand if you don't know mathematics or the language of the before mentioned document. You can have people like Black Islam over there or people knowing the language for a choice. It is yours to take. Like how you can take Michael Heiser or Zecheria Sitchin as a source on Hebrew language or learn the language yourself. You are you and you are free :)

Sorry for the rant :D

dude you are surely mistaken. for your information, quran has, unlike other holy scriptures, never been only for the mullas to change, the best advantage of quran is that in every era, quran has been put to memory by countless people, so if somebody were to try and change something in it, he gets caught instantly, please note that even though 1400 years have passed, tha quran being read in india is same as the quran being read in iran.

so u see that ur understanding of an "illuminated" quran is mistaken, it's here in the very same condition. no matter the sect of islam, quran is the same in all of them.

along the topic i recently heard the news that someone in america or something tried to publish a new, edited quran with excerpts about jihad missing, the news were in newspapers here and everybody was warned to stay away from them.

[saaduh64]

Interesting the scriptures are up for debate same as any other religion.

From what I've read so far I don't believe Islam is a peacfull religion just look at Shariah Laws and it's shocking and disturbing that anyone can equate Islam as a source from a loving creator God.

Muslims seem to be amongst the most brainwashed the experiment of Islam to control people has been a great success to the Elite.

my friend its true islam is a peaceful religion. want a history tour?
first lets take conquerors like changez khan, look what they did, killing millions not just muslims but people from many religions.
and then lets take muslim conquerors, who should i take?
saladin? he had the battle stopped at midday and had drinks distributed throughout the battlefield enemy and friend alike.
the four khalifah's? any and evry place they conquered, they only killed those who opposed them, and as soon as the battle was over they would pardon the rest of the people telling them to either pay tax or convert to islam.
please note that there was no bloodshed.

also take the crusades, please note how the christians acted and how the muslims acted.
my friend i will hereby say islam is the most practicaly peaceful religion ever, for buddhism is the most impractically peaceful if you know what i mean, letting things go by, letting friends die, if that is peacefulness than i dont want none of it.
islam actually understands a human nature and harnesses it in the right direction. man like to fight so why not fight passively? protecting one's friends and not like the way america is fighting now but with minimum bloodshed, in fact even my actions on the forum may also be called a jihad. how how impractical is this???

nuff said?

[elirien]

dude you are surely mistaken. for your information, quran has, unlike other holy scriptures, never been only for the mullas to change, the best advantage of quran is that in every era, quran has been put to memory by countless people, so if somebody were to try and change something in it, he gets caught instantly, please note that even though 1400 years have passed, tha quran being read in india is same as the quran being read in iran.

so u see that ur understanding of an "illuminated" quran is mistaken, it's here in the very same condition. no matter the sect of islam, quran is the same in all of them.

along the topic i recently heard the news that someone in america or something tried to publish a new, edited quran with excerpts about jihad missing, the news were in newspapers here and everybody was warned to stay away from them.

Dude I never said it was changed. Where did that came from? I said organized religion was "illumined" since it is against what the Quran, the bible, the torah tells us.

[lostinstrangeworld]

It's brainwashing if you ask me. The world will not become a better place through violence.

Spiritual and Cultural Genocide - YouTube

[scooby85]

Interesting the scriptures are up for debate same as any other religion.

From what I've read so far I don't believe Islam is a peacfull religion just look at Shariah Laws and it's shocking and disturbing that anyone can equate Islam as a source from a loving creator God.

Muslims seem to be amongst the most brainwashed the experiment of Islam to control people has been a great success to the Elite.
Muslims may seem brainwashed to you but have you thought the muslims are so strong in faith because they know islam is the religion of god which has never been changed? Im guessing half the 'atheists' on these forums were born christians but as they grew up realised what a load of rubbish their religion was due to it being corrupted.

And it is a peaceful religion, islam is about patience and self restraint HOWEVER if the religion gets attacked then yes were are told to defend out religion through violence only if the enemy is using violence, cant see anything wrong with that.

[eternal_spirit]

Take note of the lies and out right contradictions from a Muslim. And the silly waste of space and pathetic ramblings and praises of a God who never existed and a Prophet Muhammed who is Islam's role model.

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...=1119503543392 (http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503543392)

Honor Killing from an Islamic Perspective

Question
Respected scholars, As-Salamu `Alaykum wa Rahmatu Allah wa Barakatuh. What does Islam say about honor killings? Does Islam really have a concept of honor killings, most of the victims here are females; so does Islam really order to kill females in the name of honor?


Wa`alykum As-Salaamu Warahmatullahi Wabarakaatuh.

In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.

Dear sister in Islam, we do really appreciate your question, which shows how far you are interested in getting yourself well-acquainted with the sound teachings of Islam. May Allah bless your efforts in pursuit of knowledge and may He keep us all firm in the straight path!

Sister, it’s a well-known fact that Islam maintains the protection of life and does not sanction any violation against it. In the Glorious Qur’an, Allah, Most High, says, “Whoso slayeth a believer of set purpose, his reward is Hell for ever. Allah is wroth against him and He hath cursed him and prepared for him an awful doom.” (An-Nisa’: 93)

`Abdullah ibn Mas`ud, may Allah be pleased with him, reported that the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, "The blood of a Muslim may not be legally spilt other than in one of three [instances]: the married person who commits adultery; a life for a life; and one who forsakes his religion and abandons the community." (Reported by Al-Bukhari and Muslim)

[scooby85]

So genital mutilation will help people stop thinking of sex (it's been proved by doctors it's of no health benefit) Yet Islam and Judaism follow religious instructions to continue with mutilation:(

Snoops get real.
Islam advocates child brides, slavery and paedophilia, just like Mohamed did!

Also polygamy the more money means the more wives which means the more children born into Islam (That's another part of their great plan out breed the none Muslims)


In Britain there's loopholes in the Law that only apply to Muslims where they can claim money to support all wives and they just keep on shipping them in.

and dont no which doctors have said circumcision has no health benefits, it prevents phimosis, paraphimosis and other diseases. Its it also hygienic.

Islam doesn't promote pedophilia, just because the govt labels sex with under 16s paedophilia it doesnt mean it is.. when someone goes through puberty its natures way of saying they are ready for sex else they wouldnt go through puberty. You also have to look at the circumstances of muhammads marriage with aisha, in them days families killed their babies if they were girls, and he didnt have sex with her until she reached puberty. He married to take care of her, look after her, something that her family couldn't do.

If her family agreed. he agreed and she agreed i dont see alot wrong with that, esp seeing as it worked out better for all parties involved. Even then im sure you know a few muslims, how many of them are actually paedos? none im guessing its because they havnt been in a situation where they had to have child brides. Im a muslim and I dont know anyone thats done it..

[scooby85]

Take note of the lies and out right contradictions from a Muslim. And the silly waste of space and pathetic ramblings and praises of a God who never existed and a Prophet Muhammed who is Islam's role model.

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...=1119503543392 (http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503543392)

Honor Killing from an Islamic Perspective

Question
Respected scholars, As-Salamu `Alaykum wa Rahmatu Allah wa Barakatuh. What does Islam say about honor killings? Does Islam really have a concept of honor killings, most of the victims here are females; so does Islam really order to kill females in the name of honor?


Wa`alykum As-Salaamu Warahmatullahi Wabarakaatuh.

In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.

Dear sister in Islam, we do really appreciate your question, which shows how far you are interested in getting yourself well-acquainted with the sound teachings of Islam. May Allah bless your efforts in pursuit of knowledge and may He keep us all firm in the straight path!

Sister, it’s a well-known fact that Islam maintains the protection of life and does not sanction any violation against it. In the Glorious Qur’an, Allah, Most High, says, “Whoso slayeth a believer of set purpose, his reward is Hell for ever. Allah is wroth against him and He hath cursed him and prepared for him an awful doom.” (An-Nisa’: 93)

`Abdullah ibn Mas`ud, may Allah be pleased with him, reported that the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, "The blood of a Muslim may not be legally spilt other than in one of three [instances]: the married person who commits adultery; a life for a life; and one who forsakes his religion and abandons the community." (Reported by Al-Bukhari and Muslim)





your getting confused again.. the 3 crimes in the bottom hadiths are adultery/murder and shirk (kaffir) three of the biggest sins in islam, i dont think the person who commits those crimes can be called a muslim. True he may have been a muslim but not after any of those acts but if he repented im sure the punishment wouldnt be death.

[lostinstrangeworld]

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/quran_teaches.htm

"Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding".

~ Albert Einstein

Spiritual and Cultural Genocide - YouTube

"No culture is innocent. No people are innocent".

[eternal_spirit]

and dont no which doctors have said circumcision has no health benefits, it prevents phimosis, paraphimosis and other diseases. Its it also hygienic.

Islam doesn't promote pedophilia, just because the govt labels sex with under 16s paedophilia it doesnt mean it is.. when someone goes through puberty its natures way of saying they are ready for sex else they wouldnt go through puberty. You also have to look at the circumstances of muhammads marriage with aisha, in them days families killed their babies if they were girls, and he didnt have sex with her until she reached puberty. He married to take care of her, look after her, something that her family couldn't do.

If her family agreed. he agreed and she agreed i dont see alot wrong with that, esp seeing as it worked out better for all parties involved. Even then im sure you know a few muslims, how many of them are actually paedos? none im guessing its because they havnt been in a situation where they had to have child brides. Im a muslim and I dont know anyone thats done it..

Wrong
Use a search engine the proof is out there. (think we've been through this before)

Age of consent varies in different countries agreed and when menstruation occurs is the age most would agree is right.

But Mohammed married and consummated the marriage when she was 9 which is before puberty. This is agreed and admitted by many Muslims. There's no need to marry children (children can be adopted that's a better way) that's how none Muslim people do things.

Your problem is you believe everything in the Koran and what the Priesthood Imams tell you = many lies about reality.

[scooby85]

So seems if Islam has it's way Britain and the whole Planet will be under Shariah Islamic Laws.
Islam should bee banned immediately from all none Islamic Countries in the interest of the future of humans who want a choice to reject Shariah Islamic Laws for the evil it truly is.



It is a fact the whole world will be an islamic world at some point before the end of the world, thats the promise of god. And if the world was run by the shriah law i can guarantee you that the crimes rates would almost be non-existant, the divide between poor and the rich would also be alot narrower.. cant really see any evil in that..

You wouldnt know the truth if it slapped you around the face, like god said those who are blind in this world will surely be blind in the hereafter

[scooby85]

Wrong
Use a search engine the proof is out there. (think we've been through this before)

Age of consent varies in different countries agreed and when menstruation occurs is the age most would agree is right.

But Mohammed married and consummated the marriage when she was 9 which is before puberty. This is agreed and admitted by many Muslims. There's no need to marry children (children can be adopted that's a better way) that's how none Muslim people do things.

Your problem is you believe everything in the Koran and what the Priesthood Imams tell you = many lies about reality.

adoption wasnt a thing that was practised back then and how do u no girls dont go through puberty before 9?? Im a bloke and i went thru mine when i turned 11, girls go through it earlier generally..

Yes i believe everything in the quran because i have read it and theres things in there that are nothing short of miracles, you should try reading it sometime, it wont hurt u :rolleyes:

[scooby85]

lol.. i see this thread is still at it.

if you would have read icke's, as well as other researchers' work, you would be wise enough to know all religions are but a trap to enslave our minds and our consciousness.

'god' didn't speak to muhammed, jesus, moses, arjun (in hinduism) blah blah blah.. please. open your eyes and see for yourself that religious texts are nothing but a shadowy interpretation of what the e.t. beings have done to trap our spirits. no matter how 'beautifully' they have been written.

if you are still here insisting on on the 'glory' of this text, and pushing such opinions down other people's throats, i wonder what you are doing on a d.i. forum, of all places.

ok say if it was from an e.t was it a good/evil e.t? secondly did the e.t split the moon, make abraham invincible from the fire, split the red sea as well? :rolleyes: dont make me laugh

[lostinstrangeworld]

How can a cruel God who sends people to hell and encourages violence, etc, also be an all loving God? It's a honey trap.

We need to learn how to know ourselves and know others through the study of sociology, psychology and similar studies. Only by understanding will we ever find balance. We all need to learn what the "shadow self" is, etc.

Sentencing people to death for their crimes will get humanity nowhere.

Violence begets violence.

The paradox is, in trying to overcome evil, we may just end up becoming that very thing we tried to fight against. :(

[eternal_spirit]

It is a fact the whole world will be an islamic world at some point before the end of the world, thats the promise of god. And if the world was run by the shriah law i can guarantee you that the crimes rates would almost be non-existant, the divide between poor and the rich would also be alot narrower.. cant really see any evil in that..

You wouldnt know the truth if it slapped you around the face, like god said those who are blind in this world will surely be blind in the hereafter


God give us a break your Koran is not the work of God. And there's more of us none Muslims than there are of you so you're on a loser.

Saudi Arabia is next to some of the poorest countries on Earth (Ethiopia to name one) But guess there's not enough Muslims there for the Saudi's to give a toss.

And if your Muslim societies are so great and equal as you claim the rest of the World would be under Shariah, then why are some families so poor in Muslim countries they marry their children to rich Muslims.

[eternal_spirit]

adoption wasnt a thing that was practised back then and how do u no girls dont go through puberty before 9?? Im a bloke and i went thru mine when i turned 11, girls go through it earlier generally..

Yes i believe everything in the quran because i have read it and theres things in there that are nothing short of miracles, you should try reading it sometime, it wont hurt u :rolleyes:


You're full of shit and a pathetic liar like all the other Muslim escapologists I've read.

[scooby85]

You keep on banging on about me supposedly not being very intelligent, so if you think allah created everything then he also created unintelligent me, so your kind of criticising allah there by saying one of his creations is somehow inadequate.
Ill respond to the rest of your medieval fuckwittery when I have more time.

in other words when i can find some more disinfo and lies about islam that borders on desperation? haha Im sure he didnt create you unintelligent, u just dont no how to utilise ur brain cells properly :rolleyes:

even a blind man can see u are desperate, trying to dismiss islam

where do u get ur info from?? a rabbi?

[eternal_spirit]

ok say if it was from an e.t was it a good/evil e.t? secondly did the e.t split the moon, make abraham invincible from the fire, split the red sea as well? :rolleyes: dont make me laugh

LOL

:D

Enough said I don't need to reply no more. Try reading some books about reality or anything other than the Koran may help you awaken from your programmed illusions.

[scooby85]

You're full of shit and a pathetic liar like all the other Muslim escapologists I've read.

erm what did i lie about?? and when people start getting abusive and all shitty it usually means they know theyre wrong

[scooby85]

LOL

:D

Enough said I don't need to reply no more. Try reading some books about reality or anything other than the Koran may help you awaken from your programmed illusions. these are fairly well documented events so are you saying they never took place?? So these e.ts were they good or evil?

[scooby85]

and seeing as your on these forums, Im sure you know that the only thing that will stop the illuminati in the end is islam dont u? you will never be able to stop them so there must be a divine intervention right?

[eternal_spirit]

erm what did i lie about?? and when people start getting abusive and all shitty it usually means they know theyre wrong

You wouldn't know truth (which was written in my last reply) which may as well have been this one. I believe you're brainwashed by Islam and some of the proof of this is you've tried to justify Shariah law with many of your posts.

BTW read my Talmud thread top of the religion forum, if I can convince you of anything it will be I'm not a Jew.

[eternal_spirit]

and seeing as your on these forums, Im sure you know that the only thing that will stop the illuminati in the end is islam dont u? you will never be able to stop them so there must be a divine intervention right?

Out of the frying pan into the fire of Islamic Shariah Law. Both bad.

Do you really believe if everyone converted the World would be a better place?

[scooby85]

You wouldn't know truth (which was written in my last reply) which may as well have been this one. I believe you're brainwashed by Islam and some of the proof of this is you've tried to justify Shariah law with many of your posts.

BTW read my Talmud thread top of the religion forum, if I can convince you of anything it will be I'm not a Jew.

me brain washed? haha nahh iv made an educated decision to be a muslim because i know its the truth but each to their own.. like god said theres no compulsion in religion.. Just wondering what religion are you?

[scooby85]

Out of the frying pan into the fire of Islamic Shariah Law. Both bad.

Do you really believe if everyone converted the World would be a better place?

yes definitley. whats so bad about sharia law?? like i said before it would almost eradicate crime, there would be less poor people about, it would outlaw destructive things in our society like alcohol, gambling, sex outside of marriage etc

i would like to hear what you think is bad about it..

[scooby85]

Wrong
Use a search engine the proof is out there. (think we've been through this before)

Age of consent varies in different countries agreed and when menstruation occurs is the age most would agree is right.

But Mohammed married and consummated the marriage when she was 9 which is before puberty. This is agreed and admitted by many Muslims. There's no need to marry children (children can be adopted that's a better way) that's how none Muslim people do things.

Your problem is you believe everything in the Koran and what the Priesthood Imams tell you = many lies about reality.

I did what u said and here u go:

Girls begin puberty between the ages of 8 and 13 years. Learn about the different stages of puberty for girls and what is considered normal.
www.keepkidshealthy.com/development/puberty_girls.html

In girls, puberty may start as early as 8 years of age, but it usually starts around 10-11 years of age.
www.familydoctor.org/online/famdocen/home/children/parents/parents-teens/445.html

In girls puberty begins on average at age 10. However pubertal changes can develop as early as 8 years or as late as 13 years old
www.drpaul.com/adolescent/pubertygirls.html

Puberty in girls usually starts at any time between 8 and 13 years of age
www.netdoctor.co.uk/womenshealth/facts/becomewoman.htm

In general, girls enter puberty between ages 8 and 13
www.infoforhealth.org/pr/j41/j41chap1_2.shtml

While there's no "right" time for puberty to begin, girls usually start a little earlier than boys—usually between 8 and 13 years of age. ...
www.aap.org/publiced/BR_Teen_Puberty.htm

There is no set age for a girl to start puberty. It can happen as early as 8 and as late as 16. Anywhere in between is perfectly normal. ...
www.ukfamily.co.uk/ages-stages/tween/growing-up/puberty/puberty-girls.html



I rest my case.. see u people will go to any lenghts to dismiss islam, i really dont understand where all the hatred comes from that you mave to make up lies about islam

[eternal_spirit]

I did what u said and here u go:

Girls begin puberty between the ages of 8 and 13 years. Learn about the different stages of puberty for girls and what is considered normal.
www.keepkidshealthy.com/development/puberty_girls.html (http://www.keepkidshealthy.com/development/puberty_girls.html)

In girls, puberty may start as early as 8 years of age, but it usually starts around 10-11 years of age.
www.familydoctor.org/online/famdocen/home/children/parents/parents-teens/445.html (http://www.familydoctor.org/online/famdocen/home/children/parents/parents-teens/445.html)

In girls puberty begins on average at age 10. However pubertal changes can develop as early as 8 years or as late as 13 years old
www.drpaul.com/adolescent/pubertygirls.html (http://www.drpaul.com/adolescent/pubertygirls.html)

Puberty in girls usually starts at any time between 8 and 13 years of age
www.netdoctor.co.uk/womenshealth/facts/becomewoman.htm (http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/womenshealth/facts/becomewoman.htm)

In general, girls enter puberty between ages 8 and 13
www.infoforhealth.org/pr/j41/j41chap1_2.shtml (http://www.infoforhealth.org/pr/j41/j41chap1_2.shtml)

While there's no "right" time for puberty to begin, girls usually start a little earlier than boys—usually between 8 and 13 years of age. ...
www.aap.org/publiced/BR_Teen_Puberty.htm (http://www.aap.org/publiced/BR_Teen_Puberty.htm)

There is no set age for a girl to start puberty. It can happen as early as 8 and as late as 16. Anywhere in between is perfectly normal. ...
www.ukfamily.co.uk/ages-stages/tween/growing-up/puberty/puberty-girls.html (http://www.ukfamily.co.uk/ages-stages/tween/growing-up/puberty/puberty-girls.html)



I rest my case.. see u people will go to any lenghts to dismiss islam, i really dont understand where all the hatred comes from that you mave to make up lies about islam

You misunderstood - I meant do a search on circumcision (but as I said thought I'd posted links on other threads we'd debated on)

And Puberty is not when a woman is ready to have sex and children. Puberty begins at a young age but develops at a later age to include and result in mensuration, that's when a woman creates eggs and is fertile to have children, which is not age 9.

[scooby85]

God give us a break your Koran is not the work of God. And there's more of us none Muslims than there are of you so you're on a loser.

Saudi Arabia is next to some of the poorest countries on Earth (Ethiopia to name one) But guess there's not enough Muslims there for the Saudi's to give a toss.

And if your Muslim societies are so great and equal as you claim the rest of the World would be under Shariah, then why are some families so poor in Muslim countries they marry their children to rich Muslims.

i said one day not necessarily now, and that one day will be sooner than you think, its easily the fastest growing religon on earth, has more people converting to it than any other religion so its not hard to see it happening in the not too distant future.

and if a rich muslim marries a poor muslim isnt that a good thing? its helping someone into a better life.

In terms of helping the poor, i dont think any other religion helps the poor as much as islam, its a law to give 2.5% of your savings to the poor every year, that includes every muslim who is earning/has enough to donate.

[scooby85]

LOL

:D

Enough said I don't need to reply no more. Try reading some books about reality or anything other than the Koran may help you awaken from your programmed illusions.

I could say the same about you, that you've been programmed not to believe in god as that what the pth want.. They will introduce the antichrist and before that they will try and destroy everyones belief in god so when the antichrist does arrive you fall into trap and believe he is the real deal..in islam hes known as the deceiving messiah for a reason..

[scooby85]

You misunderstood - I meant do a search on circumcision (but as I said thought I'd posted links on other threads we'd debated on)

And Puberty is not when a woman is ready to have sex and children. Puberty begins at a young age but develops at a later age to include and result in mensuration, that's when a woman creates eggs and is fertile to have children, which is not age 9.

ok fair enough:

Circumcision of males represents a surgical "vaccine" against a wide variety of infections, adverse medical conditions and potentially fatal diseases over their lifetime, and also protects their sexual partners
http://www.circinfo.net/

The benefits of circumcision include:

• Decrease in physical problems involving a tight foreskin [408].
• Lower incidence of inflammation of the head of the penis [162, 168, 172].
• Reduced urinary tract infections.
• Fewer problems with erections, especially at puberty.
• Decrease in certain sexually transmitted infections (STIs) such as HIV, HPV, chlamydia, syphilis in men and their partner(s).
• Almost complete elimination of invasive penile cancer.
• Decrease in urological problems generally.
http://www.circinfo.net/health-benefits-and-reviews.html

and your right puberty and menstruation atre not the same thing but menstruation doesnt take long to follow after puberty, a year maybe two:

Most girls have their first menstrual period between the ages of 11 and 13, but some girls start as early as age 9 and others as late as 15 or 16. ...
www.youngwomenshealth.org/menstrual1.html

ost menstrual periods last from three to five days. In the United States, most girls start menstruating at age 12, but girls can start as early as 9 years of ...
www.nichd.nih.gov/health/topics/menstruation_and_the_menstrual_cycle.cfm

Some girls may start menstruating as early as age 9 or 10, but others may ... At what age does menstruation typically begin? - Girls start menstruating at ...
www.womens-health.health-cares.net/menstruation-period.php

Menstruation can begin as early as age 8 years or as late as age 15 years ... The start of menstruation is one of many signs that a girl is becoming a young ...
www.acog.org/publications/patient_education/bp049.cfm

Girls usually start having periods anywhere between the ages of 9 and 17. The average age that girls start menstruating is 12 years. ...
www.suttervna.kramesonline.com/HealthSheets/3,S,89565 - 17k

But it is never too late to start! Girls often begin to menstruate between the ages of 9 and 16, with the average age being around 12. ...
www.sexualityandu.ca/parents/puberty-2.aspx

Girls start menstruating at the average age of 12. However, girls can begin menstruating as early as 8 years of age or as late as 16 years of age. ...
www.revolutionhealth.com/articles/normal-menstruation/3421 - 57k

Since it is normal for girls to start menstruating anywhere between 9 and 15 years of age, it would be a good idea to ask your family doctor or nurse when ...
www.familyconnect.org/parentsite.asp?SectionID=77&TopicID=355&DocumentID=3855



Conclusive? id say so...

[eternal_spirit]

Okay Scoobs be back later, Cya.


Important ethical breakthrough
CTV news (http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1089820699106_85229899?hub=Canada)
date
B.C. doctors take stand against circumcision
CTV.ca News Staff
B.C.'s College of Physicians and Surgeons has issued guidelines that state circumcision on newborns is medically unnecessary.
Not only that, it hurts.
"The concern is that, most males would agree, that this is very painful," Dr. Peter Seland of the College told CTV Newsnet. "Most babies would voice that."
There are also concerns the procedure "reduces sexual enjoyment later in life," he said.
Those downsides are for a procedure that primarily reduces the risk of some localized infections, he said.
"Beyond that, I think primarily the benefits rest primarily with ethnic beliefs, which these guidelines don't attempt to address at all."
The College acknowledges in its guidelines that circumcision is an important tradition in Jewish and Islamic culture.
Asked about the child's best interests, Seland said, "parents have an obligation to make medical decisions that are in their child's best interests, and they do it all the time."
With circumcision, "the risks and benefits more or less seems to be evenly weighed, so it's a nil issue," he said.
In the policy statement published online, the CPSBC raises a number of questions on the ethical, legal and medical implications of the procedure.
"Routine infant male circumcision performed on a healthy infant is now considered a non-therapeutic and medically unnecessary intervention," the College writes.
Calling for a "wider societal discussion" of the practice, the manual goes on to call routine infant male circumcision "an unnecessary and irreversible procedure."
"Therefore, many consider it to be 'unwarranted mutilating surgery.' Many adult men are increasingly concerned about whether their parents had the right to give consent for infant male circumcision."
The new guidelines were developed in response to the 2002 death of one-month-old Ryleigh McWillis. He bled to death after a circumcision at Penticton regional hospital.
Though the consensus of many medical agencies -- including both the Canadian and American Paediatric Societies -- comes down against its medical benefits, there are still many doctors who routinely perform the surgery.
Doctors who favour circumcising healthy children say the best time is in the first few weeks after birth.
The CPSBC does make allowances for circumcision on religious grounds or other similarly compelling grounds.
"Therefore, each request for the procedure should be carefully evaluated, and an agreement to perform the procedure should take into consideration the ethical principles of beneficence (duty to benefit); non-maleficence (do no harm); veracity (accurate information); autonomy (consent); and justice (fairness)."
Seland said the guidelines should help B.C. physicians in counselling parents "so they just don't make it on the basis of 'we want him to look like daddy.'"
The college wants parents to understand "the risks and the limited benefit, and to understand there are moral and human rights issues that they need to at least consider in their decision," he said.




http://www.circumstitions.com/News14.html



http://www.jewsagainstcircumcision.org/

[scooby85]

Out of the frying pan into the fire of Islamic Shariah Law. Both bad.

Do you really believe if everyone converted the World would be a better place?


plus both cant be bad.. if islam is going to try to destroy the illuminati and vice a versa then one has to be good and one evil surely? i cant see the illuminati being good :rolleyes:

[scooby85]

Okay Scoobs be back later, Cya.


Important ethical breakthrough
CTV news (http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1089820699106_85229899?hub=Canada)
date
B.C. doctors take stand against circumcision
CTV.ca News Staff
B.C.'s College of Physicians and Surgeons has issued guidelines that state circumcision on newborns is medically unnecessary.
Not only that, it hurts.
"The concern is that, most males would agree, that this is very painful," Dr. Peter Seland of the College told CTV Newsnet. "Most babies would voice that."
There are also concerns the procedure "reduces sexual enjoyment later in life," he said.
Those downsides are for a procedure that primarily reduces the risk of some localized infections, he said.
"Beyond that, I think primarily the benefits rest primarily with ethnic beliefs, which these guidelines don't attempt to address at all."
The College acknowledges in its guidelines that circumcision is an important tradition in Jewish and Islamic culture.
Asked about the child's best interests, Seland said, "parents have an obligation to make medical decisions that are in their child's best interests, and they do it all the time."
With circumcision, "the risks and benefits more or less seems to be evenly weighed, so it's a nil issue," he said.
In the policy statement published online, the CPSBC raises a number of questions on the ethical, legal and medical implications of the procedure.
"Routine infant male circumcision performed on a healthy infant is now considered a non-therapeutic and medically unnecessary intervention," the College writes.
Calling for a "wider societal discussion" of the practice, the manual goes on to call routine infant male circumcision "an unnecessary and irreversible procedure."
"Therefore, many consider it to be 'unwarranted mutilating surgery.' Many adult men are increasingly concerned about whether their parents had the right to give consent for infant male circumcision."
The new guidelines were developed in response to the 2002 death of one-month-old Ryleigh McWillis. He bled to death after a circumcision at Penticton regional hospital.
Though the consensus of many medical agencies -- including both the Canadian and American Paediatric Societies -- comes down against its medical benefits, there are still many doctors who routinely perform the surgery.
Doctors who favour circumcising healthy children say the best time is in the first few weeks after birth.
The CPSBC does make allowances for circumcision on religious grounds or other similarly compelling grounds.
"Therefore, each request for the procedure should be carefully evaluated, and an agreement to perform the procedure should take into consideration the ethical principles of beneficence (duty to benefit); non-maleficence (do no harm); veracity (accurate information); autonomy (consent); and justice (fairness)."
Seland said the guidelines should help B.C. physicians in counselling parents "so they just don't make it on the basis of 'we want him to look like daddy.'"
The college wants parents to understand "the risks and the limited benefit, and to understand there are moral and human rights issues that they need to at least consider in their decision," he said.




http://www.circumstitions.com/News14.html



http://www.jewsagainstcircumcision.org/


muslims generally wait until just before puberty or even during it, its uncommon for a baby to have it done i think thats the jewish way of doing it..
ok geez im off too, chat soon take it easy

[pinkfreud]

you've been programmed not to believe in god as that what the pth want

again, i wonder what ur doing on a d.i. forum :rolleyes: that's the most illogical thing i've ever heard. 'programmed not to believe in god'? we HAVE been programmed to BELIEVE in 'god'.

lol.

[elirien]

again, i wonder what ur doing on a d.i. forum :rolleyes: that's the most illogical thing i've ever heard. 'programmed not to believe in god'? we HAVE been programmed to BELIEVE in 'god'.

lol.

read some svali material dude or look up the rituals at the "temple" at skulls and bones. you see what is going on there. who programmed you to believe in God? We were being programmed to think of god as some vengeful asshole that serves your parents or priests rather then reading what the books say and interpreting them right. nature is balanced. if you kick it in the balls it kicks back. energy doesn't go away. neither does god imho.

By the way i just shortly looked up what the quran had to say on circumcision. didn't even find the word in the book. I found this site: http://www.quran.org/CIRCUMCISION.HTM#Qualification

which claimed that this surah was involved with it:

16:120 - Asad - English / Muhammad Asad

An-Nahl (The Bee)

16:120 VERILY, Abraham was a man who combined within himself all virtues, [144] devoutly obeying God's will, turning away from all that is false, [145] and not being of those who ascribe divinity to aught beside God:

You can claim that with this you could try to kill your own child if you'd like but it won't make it the word of god but rather the word of man. that guy like mohammed had a direct contact with god (at least both claim that and I can't see a reason why they couldn't be). If any of you guys claim the same thing then cut away dudes. But don't expect me to believe that it is right. think for yourself and question authority ;)

[scooby85]

again, i wonder what ur doing on a d.i. forum :rolleyes: that's the most illogical thing i've ever heard. 'programmed not to believe in god'? we HAVE been programmed to BELIEVE in 'god'.

lol.

thats where i think the brain washing is taking place..

if they want you to believe in the ONE supreme being then why did they corrupt the talmud to associate azra as the son of god and jesus in the bible to be the son of god? There is A god that they dont want you to believe in, they couldnt corrupt the quran thats why they are consider islam as an enemy as its the truth and they know it, use your head man and dont be so narrow minded/ignorant.

what am i doing on a d.i site? Whats that got to do with anything? I believe in all the nwo crap thats going to happen and theres a good positive correlation with what islam says about the group of the antichrist (illuminati) and what will happen..

like i said earlier, the reason why most of you are atheists is because you were probably born a christian, as you grew up u realised what a load of rubbish it was due to it being corrupted and instantly thought islam is the same... how wrong you are.. Among the bullshit theres always a path to the truth.

[lottie]

like i said earlier, the reason why most of you are atheists is because you were probably born a christian, as you grew up u realised what a load of rubbish it was due to it being corrupted and instantly thought islam is the same... how wrong you are.. Among the bullshit theres always a path to the truth.

Exactly what happened to me! So you denounce ALL religion as bollox and try finding answers that support your theory...like Zeitgiest and the likes...little you know that you are being led away further from the truth....as ive said before now im not so egotistical and arrogant to say ALL religion is rubbish/manmade blah blah blah anymore,im not a convert to any religion, ive always remained athiest, im not christian (although i was christened as a baby) im not jew, im not muslim but i am starting to see there is far more of a conspiracy to divert people away from religion (monotheistic) than i could have possibly imagined. The views of people about extremisim etc are very narrow minded...i never realised the beauty and sophistocation of the Islamic religion until recently, its not suppressing women, its not supporting terrorism, its not supressing anyone about anything, its far more sophistocated than that- God has a good reason for everything, as ive come to learn. Don't trust others to tell you...go research it for yourself, spend time with people, read the scriptures yourself, discuss it!
David Icke said himself....the biggest prisoners are the one's who think they are free just because they cannot see the bars....exactly that has just happened to me throughout the last couple of years! Thought i'd free'd myself but really i'd just placed a new set of invisible bars around myself allowing me to be arrogant and consider myself as a God.