form and formlessness

[lostinstrangeworld]

If all form is transient
and if total "isness" transcends all form....
then what is the point,
what is the point in trying?

What is isness?

isness must encompass everything

if it encompasses everything
then we are all a part of it

if we are all a part of it
then life has purpose?

or what?

Are we all alchemists?

Are we here to bring together form with the formless.....and transmute it, somehow
into perfect harmony?

:confused:

Sometimes I just feel tired,
I'm so lazy
I love to sleep
To close my eyes
Or to just feel peace
The birds are singing right now...
and that makes me feel peaceful....
but music is a part of vibration :confused:
is music the antithesis of isness?

Flippin' eck....I get so sick thinking sometimes!!!!!!!:p:p:p

[lostinstrangeworld]

http://www.paramacxa.nl/nassim_haramein.htm

[lostinstrangeworld]

It's about flippin time science and philosophy merged together methinks.

I'm so sick of trying to figure it out...
Philosophy never gets you anywhere.

[tejas]

Philosophy never gets you anywhere.

Damn f***ing straight!!!!

[key_]

It's about flippin time science and philosophy merged together methinks.

I'm so sick of trying to figure it out...
Philosophy never gets you anywhere.

I got to agree with you, I’m also tired of it all

I came to the point where I realized life didn’t even have a point and that kind of flipped me off

Now I’m just trying to make sense of it all again, by appreciating it

[ex_anser_ovo]

Maybe the point is to transmute a necessary burden into something you can live with.

[mauviene]

Form is illusion and is always occupied with craving, suffering, fear, and desire. In fact the next level up from this world of form is the astral plane which is thought form based off of fear and desire. The formlessness is the state of reality or un-illusion which prevades, contains, and ascends form in a way that is unfathomable to one who is form. We are both of form and formlessness for formlessness gave birth to form. If we wish to pursue a life of unbecoming and enter into the state of enlightenment we must realize form is filled with impermanence, suffering, and no self..

With this realization reality will loose its sense of "realness" and we will slowly fade away into Enlightenment, Nibbāna, or unification with the absolute and full individuation of the divine.

[lostinstrangeworld]

Form is illusion and is always occupied with craving, suffering, fear, and desire. In fact the next level up from this world of form is the astral plane which is thought form based off of fear and desire. The formlessness is the state of reality or un-illusion which prevades, contains, and ascends form in a way that is unfathomable to one who is form. We are both of form and formlessness for formlessness gave birth to form. If we wish to pursue a life of unbecoming and enter into the state of enlightenment we must realize form is filled with impermanence, suffering, and no self..

With this realization reality will loose its sense of "realness" and we will slowly fade away into Enlightenment, Nibbāna, or unification with the absolute and full individuation of the divine.

How can we save the divine from bothering with this old junk yard then?

If formlessness gave birth to form.

[mauviene]

How can we save the divine from bothering with this old junk yard then?

If formlessness gave birth to form.

The junk yard you refer to (I think you mean the earth) is but one planet in one solar system in one universe and one small grain of sand in the galaxy. It is impermanent, it is an illusion, and can be destroyed without repercussions to the divine.

If that's what you mean? Of course your post wasn't really clear and I didn't get a grasp as to what you where referring to?

[lostinstrangeworld]

Why are we here, if it is all an illusion?

Is there a way to save all the myriads of beings from all the suffering?

Or maybe matter and form do have a purpose and it isn't all for nothing?

:confused:

[mauviene]

Why are we here, if it is all an illusion?

Is there a way to save all the myriads of beings from all the suffering?

Or maybe matter and form do have a purpose and it isn't all for nothing?

:confused:

Well there are varying views to this question.

Traditional eastern/mystic view is that we are here because of previous karmic debts from prior lives and must end our cyclic existence in this illusory world through mindfulness, meditation, right action, speech, view, thought. And realize rebirth is caused by desire and fear and suffering is a symptom of the two.

We must also realize that we can dimish the suffering in others by ending it first in ourselves and working from there.

But no no matter what view you take it is impossible to save all beings from suffering.

There is also this new quantum physics view that we all create our reality and it branches from their. Though I disagree with this because I was born into suffering and I doubt an essence would willfully incarnate here.

Speculation to why we are here is described by the fallen angels in the bible, and earlier in the devolution of spirit within the Hindu Vedas..

The biblical version is a rip off of the Vedic theory of course but basically we are all divine essences who fell from our spiritual nature into the density of matter which is constantly becoming more dense and will soon destroy spirit and the opportunity for immortality.

My suggestion is..if your as interested in this stuff as I am..is to learn how to astral project and ask the beings in that plane...because that's what I plan on doing.

Edit--Also an alternative view is that our essences have not undergone reincarnation making them random generations of the divine mind..(assuming your familiar with the scientific model of our reality being a virtual reality). Thus making a life view more existentialistic and our level of suffering and craving just an unfortunate part of our random generation.

[lostinstrangeworld]

Interesting, thank you.

[lostinstrangeworld]

Sometimes I think, if I could only get my head around this mystery, I could overcome my tendency to depression.
Even with all the awesome and inspiring information I've come across....it's the uncertainty concerning with what I expressed in the first post, that makes me vulnerable to the depression.

[lostinstrangeworld]

Somehow intuitively I feel that sex (creation) and music are closely related....it makes sense....everything in the world stems from vibration....vibration also gives us sound....this is what creates our creation.

I need to meditate on this, although I don't meditate much.
I feel there must be a clue in here to this mystery.

[mauviene]

Sometimes I think, if I could only get my head around this mystery, I could overcome my tendency to depression.
Even with all the awesome and inspiring information I've come across....it's the uncertainty concerning with what I expressed in the first post, that makes me vulnerable to the depression.

know what you mean in a way ( I think) in which I struggle between the spiritual view and the more materialistic but seemingly more realistic view on action which is taking revolutionary means to this problem as Marx had predicated would be needed in order to stabilize equanimity and stomp on exploitation.

I do see how this knowledge gives on depression when one realizes how much better civilization should be and how we are dependant on big brother for everything (electricity, gas, a means of exchange, plumming, ect). And just realizing that the technology is our there to make all of this unessesary and make each individual capable of sustaining his home is depressing..but..its easy to get over.

Somehow intuitively I feel that sex (creation) and music are closely related....it makes sense....everything in the world stems from vibration....vibration also gives us sound....this is what creates our creation.

I need to meditate on this, although I don't meditate much.
I feel there must be a clue in here to this mystery.

Yea sex for transcendance is a common thing amongst mystics.

Also there are theories of music as an interpretation to reality.

[asha loka]

Sexual energy for transcendence is a common thing among mystics.

It doesn't have to be actual sex. Oddly enough, people who have a lot of sex aren't necessarily mystically enlightened. :)

Depression is usually stuck energy. (Actually it's usually a certain kind of stuck energy.)

[sevenworlds]

Why are we here, if it is all an illusion?

Is there a way to save all the myriads of beings from all the suffering?

Or maybe matter and form do have a purpose and it isn't all for nothing?

:confused:

These are all false questions. The answer lies in looking at the questions, not that it's an answer as you expect. Instead of looking for an answer to these kinds of questions - because no answer will ever satisfy you - look at the questions themselves.

You are asking 'why are we here if it is all an illusion'? Recognise you can only ask that question because you have heard that it is an illusion. If you had never heard this idea of it being an illusion, you couldn't formulate that question. Similarly, those who tell you it's not an illusion, that this world is purely physical... both are false. So whether this world is an illusion or not is irrelevant. Someone says it is, another says its not. Neither viewpoint helps you, it only changes your question slightly, but at the end of the day all questions are variations of the same thing - wanting to know. You don't really want an answer for these questions, you just want to keep this 'wanting to know' movement going. If it comes to an end, what will happen?

Same when you ask about suffering. What is wrong with suffering? You have been continually told it's wrong and bad to suffer. That you must avoid suffering. Why? Have you investigated it for yourself? I'm not talking about physical pain - that is easy to deal with. If you get burnt, you move away. But all other suffering... what is wrong with it? When you feel bored, frustrated, angry, sad, why is that a problem? If you see it clearly for yourself you will not ask these questions about other beings suffering.

Your third question... again, you can only ask questions about matter, form and purpose because you have been given lots of ideas about these things. But what are they? Matter, form, formless, physical, spiritual, purpose... do these words actually mean anything to you other than what someone else has led you to believe? Why do we divide into form and formless? Because we love division in any shape. So you get into spirituality and you read about form and formless, about the physical world and spiritual world. Why do you accept that? If there is no division there, is there any room left for questions?

[lostinstrangeworld]

These are all false questions. The answer lies in looking at the questions, not that it's an answer as you expect. Instead of looking for an answer to these kinds of questions - because no answer will ever satisfy you - look at the questions themselves.

You are asking 'why are we here if it is all an illusion'? Recognise you can only ask that question because you have heard that it is an illusion. If you had never heard this idea of it being an illusion, you couldn't formulate that question. Similarly, those who tell you it's not an illusion, that this world is purely physical... both are false. So whether this world is an illusion or not is irrelevant. Someone says it is, another says its not. Neither viewpoint helps you, it only changes your question slightly, but at the end of the day all questions are variations of the same thing - wanting to know. You don't really want an answer for these questions, you just want to keep this 'wanting to know' movement going. If it comes to an end, what will happen?

Same when you ask about suffering. What is wrong with suffering? You have been continually told it's wrong and bad to suffer. That you must avoid suffering. Why? Have you investigated it for yourself? I'm not talking about physical pain - that is easy to deal with. If you get burnt, you move away. But all other suffering... what is wrong with it? When you feel bored, frustrated, angry, sad, why is that a problem? If you see it clearly for yourself you will not ask these questions about other beings suffering.

Your third question... again, you can only ask questions about matter, form and purpose because you have been given lots of ideas about these things. But what are they? Matter, form, formless, physical, spiritual, purpose... do these words actually mean anything to you other than what someone else has led you to believe? Why do we divide into form and formless? Because we love division in any shape. So you get into spirituality and you read about form and formless, about the physical world and spiritual world. Why do you accept that? If there is no division there, is there any room left for questions?

I don't see the point in living if there isn't a purpose.
Life is too messed up and full of pain to just live for the sake of living.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66866
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1020946&postcount=6

Shit, I feel suicidal again.

[octopusrex]

If all form is transient
and if total "isness" transcends all form....
then what is the point,
what is the point in trying?

What is isness?

isness must encompass everything

if it encompasses everything
then we are all a part of it

if we are all a part of it
then life has purpose?

or what?

Are we all alchemists?

Are we here to bring together form with the formless.....and transmute it, somehow
into perfect harmony?

:confused:

Sometimes I just feel tired,
I'm so lazy
I love to sleep
To close my eyes
Or to just feel peace
The birds are singing right now...
and that makes me feel peaceful....
but music is a part of vibration :confused:
is music the antithesis of isness?

Flippin' eck....I get so sick thinking sometimes!!!!!!!:p:p:p

Meao.

[sevenworlds]

I don't see the point in living if there isn't a purpose.
Life is too messed up and full of pain to just live for the sake of living.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66866
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1020946&postcount=6

Shit, I feel suicidal again.

You're just saying these things, like a robot or computer, spitting out the data that has been programmed into you. Do you ever see the animals sitting around complaining life has no purpose, that its messed up and full of pain and talking of committing suicide? They are too busy living.

[sevenworlds]

Think about this... it is humans desire to find a meaning and purpose to life that has caused all this suffering. Those photos you linked to in that other thread... think about what caused that. Men and women trying to find a cause, something worthwhile to live for, some purpose, and then someone else disagrees, they have a different purpose. What is the result? War and suffering. Story of humanity.

So now you say you don't see a point in living if there's no purpose because there's so much suffering and yet that suffering is caused by people trying to find a purpose. What are you gonna do now?

[lostinstrangeworld]

No, it was caused by people's greed and decision to exploit others with lack of empathy for them.

[sevenworlds]

No, it was caused by people's greed and decision to exploit others with lack of empathy for them.

Yes, and why are they greedy and exploiting? Because they want something. Purpose and meaning are wants. It doesn't matter if what you want is money, power, fame, to be kind or to save the world. You will always live in misery as long as you want.

[lostinstrangeworld]

Why are you replying then if you don't believe in purpose?

No offense, and nothing personal- but methinks you are spouting second hand philosophical bullshit. ;)

[sevenworlds]

You're right. I'm under no illusions that anything I think or say is mine. Every word I speak and write on here has come from some other source. What can I do? This English language was forced on me. I have to use it to communicate, that's all.

It's because I don't believe in purpose that I can reply. This forum is just another 'thing' in this world. I could be doing millions of things other than sitting here but at the moment this is where I am. Because I don't want anything, I don't particularly mind what I do. If I see something on here I can reply to, why not respond? I've got nothing to gain and nothing to lose.

[lostinstrangeworld]

Yes, but you are still doing. You are taking part in the material world. You seem to be against defining anything, against seeing anything as good or bad. Then what is "good" and what is "bad"? Words which are given meaning according to definition/ perception. I follow the idea that its ok to do what we want as long as we endeavor to not cause others any harm. Treat others as we would have them treat us. If all is connected then to harm another is to harm oneself. Surely we are evolving and empathy will raise the vibration of our planet.....and that is the meaning of life?
If it isn't, then let me die please.....send me to Nirvana.

[armoured_amazon]

I got to agree with you, I’m also tired of it all

I came to the point where I realized life didn’t even have a point and that kind of flipped me off

Now I’m just trying to make sense of it all again, by appreciating it

+1 Except I haven't got to the appreciating it part yet.

[sevenworlds]

Yes, but you are still doing. You are taking part in the material world. You seem to be against defining anything, against seeing anything as good or bad. Then what is "good" and what is "bad"? Words which are given meaning according to definition/ perception. I follow the idea that its ok to do what we want as long as we endeavor to not cause others any harm. Treat others as we would have them treat us. If all is connected then to harm another is to harm oneself. Surely we are evolving and empathy will raise the vibration of our planet.....and that is the meaning of life?
If it isn't, then let me die please.....send me to Nirvana.

What is wrong with doing? You seem to separate life into the 'material world' and the 'spiritual world'. I don't see a division there. That means I don't have a problem with doing in this world. But I don't have any ideas or illusions that my doing is for good or bad. I'm not motivated by anything in particular. If I was writing posts on here with an aim in mind - to wake people up for instance - then I'd soon become despondent and depressed. It's difficult for anyone to understand because we've all been brainwashed to do things for a reason. I don't see why we need reasons - only when we want something.

When you talk about treating others as we would like to be treated, I don't even carry that idea with me, because that is still a want. I have no obligation to anyone, including myself. I'm not interested in what others are doing. By that I don't mean I'm apathetic, but that I leave the world to get on with itself. If people are killing each other in other parts of the world, what am I to do? Any interference by me would just aggravate the situation. If I answer 'yes' to your question on the meaning of life, how does that help you? Will it suddenly make you feel better that someone else has told you "this is why we're here..."? Right now, whatever answer you get to that question changes nothing. You are still living as you were before. So why not just do what you're doing and forget about everyone else?

[deca]

erm what about all the suffering abusing??? does anyone care enough to do anything to make somebody else happy or help in their dire situation???

or do you think it depresses me ??? I see if afterlife's more off a party ???

help your self by helping others......you will soon find plenty of purposes,motivation ..........

[lostinstrangeworld]

erm what about all the suffering abusing??? does anyone care enough to do anything to make somebody else happy or help in their dire situation???

or do you think it depresses me ??? I see if afterlife's more off a party ???

help your self by helping others......you will soon find plenty of purposes,motivation ..........

Thank you.
Less eloquent maybe but wiser in content. :)

[sevenworlds]

help your self by helping others......you will soon find plenty of purposes,motivation ..........

That's the only reason you want to help others - to give yourself meaning and purpose. So, ultimately, its pure selfishness. That's why the suffering continues to go on - you don't want it to end because then you'd have no meaning or purpose.

[lostinstrangeworld]

That's the only reason you want to help others - to give yourself meaning and purpose. So, ultimately, its pure selfishness. That's why the suffering continues to go on - you don't want it to end because then you'd have no meaning or purpose.

I don't have a problem with that; I guess helping others is a form of selfishness.
I think suffering could end if everyone cared enough for others.
We could exist in a state of bliss and harmony.
Difficult to imagine while on this plane of existence.
Maybe it would be a world with other laws of physics.
Anything is possible.

[deca]

That's the only reason you want to help others - to give yourself meaning and purpose. So, ultimately, its pure selfishness. That's why the suffering continues to go on - you don't want it to end because then you'd have no meaning or purpose.


dude we are social creatures , if you find yourself without meaning or purpose or think its pointless whats wrong with helping somebody that does? Want you help them, feel good, learn something???

I hate some of the egotistic crap talked about on here..........

I sure the people you help want think you selfish.

[lostinstrangeworld]

Who knows, you might be right, Sevenworlds.

Maybe I just don't get it yet.

Who knows. :rolleyes:

[sevenworlds]

dude we are social creatures , if you find yourself without meaning or purpose or think its pointless whats wrong with helping somebody that does? Want you help them, feel good, learn something???

I hate some of the egotistic crap talked about on here..........

You're not really helping them though are you? It's just a temporary hit. All your help does is keep their suffering going because once their feel good hit is over, they then look to someone else to boost them. The whole world does this. You speak of egotistical crap but how egotistical and arrogant is it to assume anybody needs your help?

[deca]

its natural to want to help others , not feel pointless and depressed.

[lostinstrangeworld]

You're not really helping them though are you? It's just a temporary hit. All your help does is keep their suffering going because once their feel good hit is over, they then look to someone else to boost them. The whole world does this. You speak of egotistical crap but how egotistical and arrogant is it to assume anybody needs your help?

If a sense of purpose were to cease, all vibrational existence would cease to exist.

[deca]

no dude I need a lot of help and luck......I don`t look for people to help I just do

[sevenworlds]

If a sense of purpose were to cease, all vibrational existence would cease to exist.

Are you certain of that?

[sevenworlds]

its natural to want to help others , not feel pointless and depressed.

Why do you assume if you're not helping others you feel pointless and depressed?

[deca]

yeah you need to get a vibe and pass it on, not let it fade out

[sevenworlds]

yeah you need to get a vibe and pass it on, not let it fade out

Rubbish. What vibe? If it was anything real how could it fade out?

[deca]

Why do you assume if you're not helping others you feel pointless and depressed?

I never assumed that at all .....

I said it was natural to help others


you can feel pointless and depressed by lots of things

but I don`t think you feel pointless and depressed when you are helping others ...unless it turns it a chore or burden and being used taken for granted

[deca]

Dude if you don`t feel a good vibe or bad around people or things then enjoy your enlighten loneliness


A psychologist that survived the natzi concentration camps , realised the people that help others or felt others depended on them or had a purpose to fulfill did not commit suicide and many did it there awful situation

[sevenworlds]

Sorry if I misunderstood you deca. What I am saying though is people use helping others as a way to runaway and avoid facing their own loneliness.

The question we should ask ourselves is can we be completely content - with no depression and pointlessness - without helping others? To find that out you have to give up wanting to help others and face yourself. It's far easier to distract and convince ourselves we're fine by helping others.

This vibe you speak of... what is it? You claim it can be passed on. If it can be passed on then it can be lost, right? I can have it and then lose it? If so, then it must be a 'thing', must be separate from me, so what good is it? I'm not interested in anything I can lose.

[lostinstrangeworld]

Dude if you don`t feel a good vibe or bad around people or things then enjoy your enlighten loneliness


A psychologist that survived the natzi concentration camps , realised the people that help others or felt others depended on them or had a purpose to fulfill did not commit suicide and many did it there awful situation

True.

And is the suffering that these people and others have endured/ are enduring....is it all pointless? If it is, then.....

[lostinstrangeworld]

Are you certain of that?

No, I'm not certain about that come to think of it. Maybe if we all existed in the state of bliss I endeavored to describe earlier....without purpose....just being....maybe....

But surely reaching that point must be through love....
and that gives us a certain amount of purpose, while we are here...
at this level of creation.

[deca]

it is pointless if people just given in without a fight.........

I am not going too

[deca]

remember its the "system" we are ruled by that's gone wrong not life and the planet we live on.....
we can change the system......

but it is getting to the point were life and the planet is getting changed

[sevenworlds]

No, I'm not certain about that come to think of it. Maybe if we all existed in the state of bliss I endeavored to describe earlier....without purpose....just being....maybe....

But surely reaching that point must be through love....
and that gives us a certain amount of purpose, while we are here...
at this level of creation.

Isn't the reaching just an idea though? How can you reach when you don't know what you're reaching for? And if you do know, then you'd have grabbed it by now.

This idea of reaching is the one that stops you realising there is nothing to reach for, nowhere to get to, nothing to understand. What you are looking for is right here but you're looking everywhere else and that is blinding you.

[lostinstrangeworld]

Forgive me, but your philosophy sounds a little bit Luciferic/ negative/ anti-love.

[sevenworlds]

That's because you can't see anything AS IT IS. Everytime you read my statements you are always trying to do something with them - interpret them or fit them into some framework you already know. I am not spouting off some philosophy but you are already trying to build one around what I say.

Love doesn't even come into it for me. What is love? All I know it to be is a 4-letter word. So how can I be pro-love or anti-love? I don't even know what you mean by Luciferic. We have to be clear - this is not some belief system I'm dishing out.

[lostinstrangeworld]

I meant that your words attempt to take away definition.
If there is no such thing as good or evil, and we shouldn't help each other, how are we going ever to reach that state/ dimension of peace and harmony?
You make it sound as if we should hold onto no beliefs in anything whatsoever; you take all the colours of paint and throw them together becoming a greenish/ grey splodge.

[sevenworlds]

You're already in the state you are trying to reach. You can't not be in it. It is these ideas of good and evil, helping others, reaching some imagined state of peace and love that are blocking it. That's all.

You can't hold onto no beliefs because you yourself are a belief. There can't be a 'you', a person there, who has no beliefs. Yet that is what you imagine I am saying. That's why you project it as a dull splodge. If you get what I am saying there won't be a person left to ask the kinds of questions you are posing in this thread.

[remium]

Isn't the reaching just an idea though? How can you reach when you don't know what you're reaching for? And if you do know, then you'd have grabbed it by now.

The elusive yet always seen gateless gate.

This idea of reaching is the one that stops you realising there is nothing to reach for, nowhere to get to, nothing to understand. What you are looking for is right here but you're looking everywhere else and that is blinding you.

The guys just gave out one big clue :)

[lostinstrangeworld]

It sounds like some of you have been reading Gangaji and Ekhart Tolle.

Look to others for inspiration, but weigh it up with your own mind and intuition.

Maybe everyone has a little piece of the truth, and only by bringing it all together are we able to complete the bigger picture.

"Enlightenment" is an illusion. :cool:

LoL!

[remium]

It sounds like some of you have been reading Gangaji and Ekhart Tolle.

Look to others for inspiration, but weigh it up with your own mind and intuition.

Maybe everyone has a little piece of the truth, and only by bringing it all together are we able to complete the bigger picture.

"Enlightenment" is an illusion. :cool:

LoL!

:rolleyes: Take away everthing thats false .. and what are you left with???

Strip everything down thats not needed and whats left???

There is no "little piece of truth" thats a joke :p ... all there is, is the truth.

This is just (h8 this word) "enlightenment" to a realization .. please don't confuse it with nirvana type mind blowing total self annihilation eastern mystic enlightenment. (although I hear they are on the same path) :P

But hey each to there own and good luck in finding your lil piece of truth. :p:D

[lostinstrangeworld]

"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened."

[geewhizz]

If all form is transient
and if total "isness" transcends all form....
then what is the point,
what is the point in trying?

What is isness?

isness must encompass everything

if it encompasses everything
then we are all a part of it

if we are all a part of it
then life has purpose?

or what?

Are we all alchemists?

Are we here to bring together form with the formless.....and transmute it, somehow
into perfect harmony?

:confused:

Sometimes I just feel tired,
I'm so lazy
I love to sleep
To close my eyes
Or to just feel peace
The birds are singing right now...
and that makes me feel peaceful....
but music is a part of vibration :confused:
is music the antithesis of isness?

Flippin' eck....I get so sick thinking sometimes!!!!!!!:p:p:p

The Cathars way of thinking was that ALL matter was evil and also illusion. Our true state was of the spirit.

I agree but how else would we experience seperation in the illusory physical dimension?

[lostinstrangeworld]

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

[sevenworlds]

It sounds like some of you have been reading Gangaji and Ekhart Tolle.

Look to others for inspiration, but weigh it up with your own mind and intuition.

Maybe everyone has a little piece of the truth, and only by bringing it all together are we able to complete the bigger picture.

"Enlightenment" is an illusion. :cool:

LoL!

Tolle is full of shit and Gangaji is even worse. Don't look to any of these figures for anything.

Intuition and mind are one in the same. It's this that is getting in your way. What are you going to weigh up with your own mind? You don't even have a mind of your own. Nobody does. All you are doing is judging new information against what you've previously been told. That is all you can ever do. That will never end. It is what you are using to evaluate everything that is the problem. Intuition is only subtler thoughts disguised as feelings. We fool ourselves into believing its some superior ability.

Feel free to carry on coming up with more and more theories about why you can't be what you already are now - 'enlightenment' or 'truth' or whatever you want to call it. All I can say is you'll do that forever more and it will never bring you any closer.

[lostinstrangeworld]

All right, let's not do anything then.

Let's sit cross legged in some field not eating or drinking until we cross over into another dimension.

Geez. :rolleyes:

:D

[haukipesukone]

If all form is transient
and if total "isness" transcends all form....
then what is the point,
what is the point in trying?

What is isness?

isness must encompass everything

if it encompasses everything
then we are all a part of it

if we are all a part of it
then life has purpose?

or what?

Are we all alchemists?

Are we here to bring together form with the formless.....and transmute it, somehow
into perfect harmony?

:confused:

Sometimes I just feel tired,
I'm so lazy
I love to sleep
To close my eyes
Or to just feel peace
The birds are singing right now...
and that makes me feel peaceful....
but music is a part of vibration :confused:
is music the antithesis of isness?

Flippin' eck....I get so sick thinking sometimes!!!!!!!:p:p:p

I think that's the point, giving up trying for good. It's easier said than done, and getting all depressed and saying "I've had it, I don't wanna do it, I'll kill myself" isn't the same as stopping trying.

I'm so lazy
I love to sleep
To close my eyes
Or to just feel peace
The birds are singing right now...
and that makes me feel peaceful....

That part is pretty nice. I think the world would be a great place, whether or not it is illusory, if more people felt like that. I think that's the key, you just have to know how to wield it.

Non-action is the only way.

It doesn't matter one fuck whether music is part of vibration. If it's something you really like, and not some corporate mind-numbing pop, then it's great. If you genuinely like the sound of birds singing and that's what you wanna do, I think there's nothing better to do.

Nature=good. No matter what they say about good and evil and opposites crap, or what Icke says about nature being a part of the Matrix, and all that constant warfare and survival. Bollocks! What does it matter if you feel good right now at the bottom of your heart, and not some artificial elation caused by the entertainment industry, and then tanks flatten your house and bullets pierce your body. What does it matter?

[asha loka]

the orb - little fluffy clouds - YouTube

[deca]

Gaps in science & knowledge is fertile ground for myth,blind belief and nonsenses.

Electromagnetic theories of consciousness - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The electromagnetic field theory of consciousness is a theory that says the electromagnetic field generated by the brain (measurable by electrocorticography) is the actual carrier of conscious experience.

Outline

The starting point for the theory is the fact that every time a neuron fires to generate an action potential and a postsynaptic potential in the next neuron down the line, it also generates a disturbance to the surrounding electromagnetic (EM) field. Information coded in neuron firing patterns is therefore reflected into the brain's EM field. Locating consciousness in the brain's EM field, rather than the neurons, has the advantage of neatly accounting for how information located in millions of neurons scattered throughout the brain can be unified into a single conscious experience (sometimes called the binding problem): the information is unified in the EM field. In this way EM field consciousness can be considered to be 'joined-up information'.

[edit] Advantages

This theory accounts for several otherwise puzzling facts, such as the finding that attention and awareness tend to be correlated with the synchronous firing of multiple neurons rather than the firing of individual neurons. When neurons fire together their EM fields generate stronger EM field disturbances; so synchronous neuron firing will tend to have a larger impact on the brain's EM field (and thereby consciousness) than the firing of individual neurons. However their generation by synchronous firing is not the only important characteristic of conscious electromagnetic fields — in Pockett's original theory, spatial pattern is the defining feature of a conscious (as opposed to a non-conscious) field.

Michael Persinger - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This gets interesting when you look a Dr persingers work weak, complex, low-frequency magnetic fields to the human brain can induce sympathetic shifts neural activity and have consequences for cognition and awareness...The net effect of this interaction can be a magnetically induced altered-state of awareness often resulting in complex hallucinations."


and also when you look at the earths magnetic field Schumann Resonances

http://altered-states.net/barry/newsletter278/index.htm

At the time when Schumann published his research results in the journal `Technische Physik', Dr Ankermueller, a physician, immediately made the connection between the Schumann resonance and the alpha rhythm of brainwaves. He found the thought of the earth having the same natural resonance as the brain very exciting and contacted Professor Schumann, who in turn asked a doctorate candidate to look into this phenomenon. This candidate was Herbert König who became Schumann's successor at Munich University. König demonstrated a correlation between Schumann Resonances and brain rhythms. He compared human EEG recordings with natural electromagnetic fields of the environment (1979) and found that the main frequency produced by Schumann oscillations is very close to the frequency of alpha rhythms.


Learn to be a free thinker.....and enjoy life

[sevenworlds]

Learn to be a free thinker.....and enjoy life

There is no such thing as a free thinker. Do you have any thoughts of your own? I have yet to find anyone with thoughts of their own. Every thought, feeling and experience has been put into you by someone else.

[asha loka]

Is that your personal opinion, or are you just repeating what someone else told you? :)

[mauviene]

Tolle is full of shit and Gangaji is even worse. Don't look to any of these figures for anything.

Intuition and mind are one in the same. It's this that is getting in your way. What are you going to weigh up with your own mind? You don't even have a mind of your own. Nobody does. All you are doing is judging new information against what you've previously been told. That is all you can ever do. That will never end. It is what you are using to evaluate everything that is the problem. Intuition is only subtler thoughts disguised as feelings. We fool ourselves into believing its some superior ability.

Feel free to carry on coming up with more and more theories about why you can't be what you already are now - 'enlightenment' or 'truth' or whatever you want to call it. All I can say is you'll do that forever more and it will never bring you any closer.

Just from reading your previous posts I'm assuming you take a stance of nihilism? (correct me if I'm wrong). Anyways, I read in one of your early posts in this thread about you bashing on that human tendency to desire, to find out, to want to know, to desire knowledge. Well, in fact, bashing this trait that is particularly human is bashing all that this incentive has created. Which of course includes the findings in science, inspiration for music art and architecture, and a whole lot more. It also contradicts with your base action in coming to this forum which must be from some sort of desire to know, must it not?

I don't see how you hold the authority to bash on Tolle either, but if you read one of his books and didn't even find it somewhat helpful I'm afraid that you might be in depression...again..reading from your mostly negative posts.

But as for form and formlessness and the fact that reality is an illusion -- this has been discovered in previous ages by this base desire..and now scientific findings have validated it. An atom is 99.99% empty space..the rest is vibration, making everything but an illusion. You can ignore this fact and the desire to know but then that takes that human trait and higher energetic tendencies (as you ascend into higher energy centers or chakras these things start to come to mind) that other animals do not have and puts you in the same plaque as them.

Also I don't agree with your seemingly ambivalent stance on suffering. For there are those searching spirits whom wish to end this cycle of craving and loss to abide in a permanent state of bliss and happiness.

[brandonh]

Just from reading your previous posts I'm assuming you take a stance of nihilism? (correct me if I'm wrong). Anyways, I read in one of your early posts in this thread about you bashing on that human tendency to desire, to find out, to want to know, to desire knowledge. Well, in fact, bashing this trait that is particularly human is bashing all that this incentive has created. Which of course includes the findings in science, inspiration for music art and architecture, and a whole lot more. It also contradicts with your base action in coming to this forum which must be from some sort of desire to know, must it not?

I don't see how you hold the authority to bash on Tolle either, but if you read one of his books and didn't even find it somewhat helpful I'm afraid that you might be in depression...again..reading from your mostly negative posts.

But as for form and formlessness and the fact that reality is an illusion -- this has been discovered in previous ages by this base desire..and now scientific findings have validated it. An atom is 99.99% empty space..the rest is vibration, making everything but an illusion. You can ignore this fact and the desire to know but then that takes that human trait and higher energetic tendencies (as you ascend into higher energy centers or chakras these things start to come to mind) that other animals do not have and puts you in the same plaque as them.

Also I don't agree with your seemingly ambivalent stance on suffering. For there are those searching spirits whom wish to end this cycle of craving and loss to abide in a permanent state of bliss and happiness.

Well said:)

[remium]

Just from reading your previous posts I'm assuming you take a stance of nihilism? (correct me if I'm wrong). Anyways, I read in one of your early posts in this thread about you bashing on that human tendency to desire, to find out, to want to know, to desire knowledge. Well, in fact, bashing this trait that is particularly human is bashing all that this incentive has created. Which of course includes the findings in science, inspiration for music art and architecture, and a whole lot more. It also contradicts with your base action in coming to this forum which must be from some sort of desire to know, must it not?

I don't see how you hold the authority to bash on Tolle either, but if you read one of his books and didn't even find it somewhat helpful I'm afraid that you might be in depression...again..reading from your mostly negative posts.

But as for form and formlessness and the fact that reality is an illusion -- this has been discovered in previous ages by this base desire..and now scientific findings have validated it. An atom is 99.99% empty space..the rest is vibration, making everything but an illusion. You can ignore this fact and the desire to know but then that takes that human trait and higher energetic tendencies (as you ascend into higher energy centers or chakras these things start to come to mind) that other animals do not have and puts you in the same plaque as them.

Also I don't agree with your seemingly ambivalent stance on suffering. For there are those searching spirits whom wish to end this cycle of craving and loss to abide in a permanent state of bliss and happiness.

THERE DO EXIST ENQUIRING MINDS, which long for the truth of the heart, seek it, strive to solve the problems set by life, try to penetrate to the essence of things and phenomena and to penetrate into themselves. If a man reasons and thinks soundly, no matter which path he follows in solving these problems, he must inevitably arrive back at himself, and begin with the solution of the problem of what he is himself and what his place is in the world around him. For without this knowledge, he will have no focal point in his search. Socrates’ words, “Know thyself” remain for all those who seek true knowledge and being. G. I. Gurdjieff

>.<

[deca]

There is no such thing as a free thinker. Do you have any thoughts of your own? I have yet to find anyone with thoughts of their own. Every thought, feeling and experience has been put into you by someone else.


that's total crap ...how would man involve then....from a caveman to now...even cave men draw on walls....who taught them then???

[bargain84]

that's total crap ...how would man involve then....from a caveman to now...even cave men draw on walls....who taught them then???

Deca, you've just shot yourself on the foot with that statement. You've just repeated what you've heard from various scientists like Darwin eg. regarding the idea of evolution and cavemen.

[deca]

oh I am glad you lot came along as I would be wondering in the wilderness butt naked bumping into things.:rolleyes:

don`t you think its humans ability to learn and communicate that makes us....

I think you will find our brains are more than chemical hard drives.


how do feral children survive then ?


I can express my self in many ways the written word is only one.

[mauviene]

Deca, you've just shot yourself on the foot with that statement. You've just repeated what you've heard from various scientists like Darwin eg. regarding the idea of evolution and cavemen.


Some form of evolution is apparently obvious in domesticated plants and animals. Though as far as Darwin takes it that is still theoretical. But even then..if you believe in these new discoveries in genetics and in genetic manipulation our ancestors had to of evolved to a primate state prior to genetic change?

Really..I don't see how humans just appeared here aimlessly. The theory of evolution is logical in proceeding and has the potential of being proven with modern scientific discoveries (or maybe black budget scientists have proven it or know of something else.) In any case..what other options do you have as to the history of our race?

If you believe in a creator that is beyond any sort of biological form you must still believe that creator got the point of power through some sort of evolution?

Whatever the case my be..I am reminded of a slight alternative to Darwinism which has its premise in the fact that all sentient beings evolved from plant life or earth..or as the bible puts it..from clay.

[deca]

I can think of all sorts of possibles and come up with many original ideas and thoughts ...even create my own language ...ect whats fiction and si fi about and fantasy novels and computer games designers about?

whats abstract art then??


I suppose our masters had to tech us how to think what to think and what to do? is that what you believe?


Why do you think they restrict knowledge and control communications ? the media?ect....

[deca]

hmmm I think in some ways I glad I came from a poor family ....did not have a tv when I was growing up, had to make our own entertainment , then when I was older I was into computers, programing,graphics,music and messing with them etc.....

[deca]

Some form of evolution is apparently obvious in domesticated plants and animals. Though as far as Darwin takes it that is still theoretical. But even then..if you believe in these new discoveries in genetics and in genetic manipulation our ancestors had to of evolved to a primate state prior to genetic change?

Really..I don't see how humans just appeared here aimlessly. The theory of evolution is logical in proceeding and has the potential of being proven with modern scientific discoveries (or maybe black budget scientists have proven it or know of something else.) In any case..what other options do you have as to the history of our race?

If you believe in a creator that is beyond any sort of biological form you must still believe that creator got the point of power through some sort of evolution?

Whatever the case my be..I am reminded of a slight alternative to Darwinism which has its premise in the fact that all sentient beings evolved from plant life or earth..or as the bible puts it..from clay.

yes think Darwinism is a pretty good explanation but probably as we learn more we will find wholes in it like every other theory....

I have not really researched Darwinism or had the time to do my own researched on the evolution of man ......I have not the need.

[deca]

saying that I might have to look into this , as this mind control and electronic harassment BCI devolpe and they start tapping in to our conscious/unconscious and who owns it.......


"Man does not have the right to develop his own mind. This kind of liberal orientation has great appeal. We must electrically control the brain. Some day armies and generals will be controlled by electric stimulation of the brain." Dr. Jose Delgado

Think they push the idea our body's are empty vessels and our minds are connected to a collective "consciousness" .......who owns it? who has the right to influence it or control it?

[shankara]

Sorry if I misunderstood you deca. What I am saying though is people use helping others as a way to runaway and avoid facing their own loneliness.

The question we should ask ourselves is can we be completely content - with no depression and pointlessness - without helping others? To find that out you have to give up wanting to help others and face yourself. It's far easier to distract and convince ourselves we're fine by helping others.

The problem with this message is not that it is untrue (which it isn't) but because language is incapable of wholly describing the nature of God/Being/Is-ness, the same words can point to deep ease, simplicity, and unfathomable joy for some, yet convey depression, hopelessness, and pointlessness for others.

I may be wrong, but I think what Sevenworlds is trying to ask us is "Can you be totally happy with where you are, without having to change anything, without having to figure anything out, without having to release anything or become something different or better? Or do you have to constantly strive, constantly think good thoughts or do good deeds and release the impure thoughts and dark energy within to justify your existence and prove your worth? And if it is the latter, when will it ever be enough?"

And the basis for that question to someone who has realized the Self is that you, not that finite 'you' that some think themselves to be, but the infinite, divine You, that Being that is the substance of all of existence, is always whole, perfect, worthy, full of love, happy, and free. So when he says "there is nothing to do, nothing to get," to someone who thinks of themselves as finite (and therefore vulnerable and not inherently worthy) it seems he is a nihilist, advocating giving up and resigning one's self to the purposelessness of life. And though I can't speak for Sevenworlds, when I say something like this I mean that existence itself is full of purpose, it is only love, and there is nothing you have to do to attain that. It is the striving to change what is that leads us away from the perfection of the moment. When you do have that realization that 'there is nothing to do, nothing to get,' it is almost like a cosmic joke. You think "It was right here in front of me the whole time, yet I pushed it away!" It is both the simplest and most profound truth yet the hardest to come to terms with, because to the ego, it seems like a horrible resignation, when in Reality it is anything but.

"All this is full. All that is full.
From fullness, fullness comes.
When fullness is taken from fullness,
Fullness still remains.
Om shanti shanti, shanti "

-Isha Upanishad

However, if I am wrong, and nothing has a purpose, I would still believe in relaxing and not striving to change things. Because what is is, and there are only two options: resisting it (which is still not going to change it), or surrendering to it. This is not to say that we must stay in a situation that we don't like forever. This surrendering pertains only to the present moment; let tomorrow take care of tomorrow. In the meantime, accept yourself and your situation for what it is, without judgment. Find the joy in it where you can. Soon enough, if you don't judge and stop trying to obtain or change anything, joy will be all you see. Do not try to analyze; if you come up upon something you don't understand (especially if it causes negative feelings to come up) just let it go and don't give it another thought. Reading a romance novel is not the same as being in love; analyzing the nature of Reality/God/Life is not the same as beingand living it. Do not compare yourself to where you think you should be, or past experiences, or future ideals, and accept even the 'unspiritual' aspects of your present self and your present situation for what they are: this perfect expression of the divine manifesting now. What else do you have but right now?

[deca]

The question we should ask ourselves is can we be completely content - with no depression and pointlessness - without helping others? To find that out you have to give up wanting to help others and face yourself. It's far easier to distract and convince ourselves we're fine by helping others.

er what are you on about??

I think I said if you feel depressed and felt life was point less and there a load of suffering going on in the world the maybe helping somebody would help!! FFS

I am mentally content with myself always have been....I don`t feel the need to help anyone.....I enjoy it

[deca]

Thank you.
Less eloquent maybe but wiser in content. :)


thanks for your comment :)

the written word is not my strong point...:o

[shankara]

er what are you on about??

I think I said if you feel depressed and felt life was point less and there a load of suffering going on in the world the maybe helping somebody would help!! FFS

I am mentally content with myself always have been....I don`t feel the need to help anyone.....I enjoy it

:confused: I wasn't addressing you, but only Sevenworld's message, as it seems to be taken out of context.

[deca]

:confused: I wasn't addressing you, but only Sevenworld's message, as it seems to be taken out of context.

I have not got a problem with what you said , I would agree with it.
Its sevenworld took what I original said out of context.
then saying people only help people because they could not face their own loneliness????
er would`nt going and helping somebody have the possibility of meeting new people?making new friends???would be a way of facing up to being lonley and doing something positive about it?
or should you sit there like billy no mates and find some other way of curing your loneliness????
remember loneliness is different for enjoying your own space .

Loneliness - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Loneliness is not the same as being alone. Many people have times when they are alone through circumstances or choice. Being alone can be experienced as positive, pleasurable, and emotionally refreshing if it is under the individual's control. Solitude is the state of being alone and secluded from other people, and often implies having made a conscious choice to be alone. Loneliness is therefore unwanted solitude.

Sometimes you can look to deeply at something and end up not doing anything about it.

sevenworld are you saying that Lonely people should not go out and help people,our meet others , and therefore not be lonely but should learn to lump it? or like it?

whats the point experiencing life and not sharing these experiencing with others or hearing others peoples experiences ???..........Fuck that .....I off to the pub.

[lucas84]

Sevenworlds is right.

This road leads nowhere. When we break-apart and analyze life, creation comes to a standstill.


God's prayer for Man:

My son! My own dear son!
How long I have been waiting. I am still waiting.
A minute holds a hundred years, a moment lasts millennia.
I am waiting.
I have given you all. The earth is all yours.
You are free in everything. You shall choose your own path.
All that I ask, My son, My own dear son,
Is that you be happy.
You do not see Me.
You do not hear Me.
In your mind are doubts and sorrows.
You are turning away. Whereto?
You are yearning for something. What for?
And you are bowing to someone.
I stretch out my hands to you.
My son, My own dear son,
Be happy, I ask of you.
Again you are going away. But your road leads to nowhere.
On this road the Earth will explode.
You are free in everything, and the world is exploding
And tearing your destiny apart.
You are free in everything, but I shall stand My ground.
I shall restore you to life with the last blade of grass.
And once more the world will shine aroung.
Only be happy, I ask.
On the faces of saints a deep sorrow swells.
You are frigtened by judgement and hell.
They tell you that I shall send judges.
But I only pray for that time, as before
When you and I are together once more.
I believe you will return.
I know you will come.
I shall embraceyou once more.
Not as a stepfather! Not as a stepfather! I am yours!
I am your Abba, your Father, the only One,
And you are My very own son, My own dear son,
We shall be happy together as one!.

-Co-creation, Chapter 11, Ringing Cedars of Russia series book four

[deca]

remember you can analyze life to much and forget it just is

http://116.118.248.45/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/bondi-sunrise-birds.jpg

[deem]

:DIf everything was/is from a formless creator and we are of that creater. Not separate from. Bodies give us a sense of separation and sensory persception and experience. This biomechanical device has its own automatic subroutines and agenda separate from the mind, like breathing, eating, sleeping, growing, pissing, shitting, sheading, digesting, reproduction systems, repairing itself and even has defence mechanisms.Many of these functions the mind is mainly oblivious to. In the mind we can create anything, somethings we invent in the formless realm of the mind, we can build with our hands and the manipulation of matter. In relationships our own perspective never matchs what is going on in the mind of our partner or friends. We can only judge others by our own standards, wants and needs. Those that can see past their own noses are capable of empathy and love....for other formless minds in biomechanical suits. My mind made my body type this, even thou my body is busting for a piss. Good example of mind over matter.:D

[deca]

lets not take our bodys for granted they are so much more than chemical suits they are infact biological chemical/electrical devices truly amazing and don`t need to much conscious maintenance from us :) Also our brains and minds can work outside our 5 sense we call reality. Also our minds can dream and imagine stuff not found in our so called 5 sense reality and actually instruct our body to create them....fabulous.......we are amazing. Also we can connect to the world,people things around us in so many different ways and have an almost infinite array of experiences

[shankara]

I have not got a problem with what you said , I would agree with it.
Its sevenworld took what I original said out of context.
then saying people only help people because they could not face their own loneliness????
er would`nt going and helping somebody have the possibility of meeting new people?making new friends???would be a way of facing up to being lonley and doing something positive about it?
or should you sit there like billy no mates and find some other way of curing your loneliness????
remember loneliness is different for enjoying your own space .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loneliness


Sometimes you can look to deeply at something and end up not doing anything about it.

sevenworld are you saying that Lonely people should not go out and help people,our meet others , and therefore not be lonely but should learn to lump it? or like it?

whats the point experiencing life and not sharing these experiencing with others or hearing others peoples experiences ???..........Fuck that .....I off to the pub.

Yeah, it can make my head hurt thinking about all this; on one hand, I know I need to be content with wherever I am and with whatever is happening (and not feel like I have to be a better person, or be smarter or help more people to feel worthy or spiritual enough), but on the other hand, does that mean we can just ignore others or even hurt them because all is One and everything is perfect regardless? I guess I like to think of it as if I want to live in truth, then that means knowing myself as my divine Self. And if I want to live in truth, then I need to act in accordance with that Self, and see 'others' as myself, and treat them as well as I can. But all I can do is try, and after that, I should not be attached to the outcome or judge myself on my results or even past efforts. I hope that made sense? Or something like that anyway..... :D

[lostinstrangeworld]

Sevenworlds is right.

This road leads nowhere. When we break-apart and analyze life, creation comes to a standstill.


God's prayer for Man:

My son! My own dear son!
How long I have been waiting. I am still waiting.
A minute holds a hundred years, a moment lasts millennia.
I am waiting.
I have given you all. The earth is all yours.
You are free in everything. You shall choose your own path.
All that I ask, My son, My own dear son,
Is that you be happy.
You do not see Me.
You do not hear Me.
In your mind are doubts and sorrows.
You are turning away. Whereto?
You are yearning for something. What for?
And you are bowing to someone.
I stretch out my hands to you.
My son, My own dear son,
Be happy, I ask of you.
Again you are going away. But your road leads to nowhere.
On this road the Earth will explode.
You are free in everything, and the world is exploding
And tearing your destiny apart.
You are free in everything, but I shall stand My ground.
I shall restore you to life with the last blade of grass.
And once more the world will shine aroung.
Only be happy, I ask.
On the faces of saints a deep sorrow swells.
You are frigtened by judgement and hell.
They tell you that I shall send judges.
But I only pray for that time, as before
When you and I are together once more.
I believe you will return.
I know you will come.
I shall embraceyou once more.
Not as a stepfather! Not as a stepfather! I am yours!
I am your Abba, your Father, the only One,
And you are My very own son, My own dear son,
We shall be happy together as one!.

-Co-creation, Chapter 11, Ringing Cedars of Russia series book four

Interesting synchro...I have just started reading this book!

I am currently on the chapter where Anastasia said entities that were jealous of humanity and sought power over him/ her and this creation....wanted to find out the secret to how it was made but Man/ Woman didn't know....so they were encouraged to take things apart and analyze how organisms worked in detail....something the Creator had advised against....this type of thinking takes our minds away from multi-level inspiration; that right brained infinite awareness stuff.....Anastasia uses this analogy too, to make it easier to understand....that if a man, about to make love to a woman pauses to think about how her body will be functioning such as the internal organs such as kidneys, heart etc....then the inspiration will suddenly be lost :p.....and replaced by a far more inferior type of thinking.

[lostinstrangeworld]

The problem with this message is not that it is untrue (which it isn't) but because language is incapable of wholly describing the nature of God/Being/Is-ness, the same words can point to deep ease, simplicity, and unfathomable joy for some, yet convey depression, hopelessness, and pointlessness for others.

I may be wrong, but I think what Sevenworlds is trying to ask us is "Can you be totally happy with where you are, without having to change anything, without having to figure anything out, without having to release anything or become something different or better? Or do you have to constantly strive, constantly think good thoughts or do good deeds and release the impure thoughts and dark energy within to justify your existence and prove your worth? And if it is the latter, when will it ever be enough?"

And the basis for that question to someone who has realized the Self is that you, not that finite 'you' that some think themselves to be, but the infinite, divine You, that Being that is the substance of all of existence, is always whole, perfect, worthy, full of love, happy, and free. So when he says "there is nothing to do, nothing to get," to someone who thinks of themselves as finite (and therefore vulnerable and not inherently worthy) it seems he is a nihilist, advocating giving up and resigning one's self to the purposelessness of life. And though I can't speak for Sevenworlds, when I say something like this I mean that existence itself is full of purpose, it is only love, and there is nothing you have to do to attain that. It is the striving to change what is that leads us away from the perfection of the moment. When you do have that realization that 'there is nothing to do, nothing to get,' it is almost like a cosmic joke. You think "It was right here in front of me the whole time, yet I pushed it away!" It is both the simplest and most profound truth yet the hardest to come to terms with, because to the ego, it seems like a horrible resignation, when in Reality it is anything but.

"All this is full. All that is full.
From fullness, fullness comes.
When fullness is taken from fullness,
Fullness still remains.
Om shanti shanti, shanti "

-Isha Upanishad

However, if I am wrong, and nothing has a purpose, I would still believe in relaxing and not striving to change things. Because what is is, and there are only two options: resisting it (which is still not going to change it), or surrendering to it. This is not to say that we must stay in a situation that we don't like forever. This surrendering pertains only to the present moment; let tomorrow take care of tomorrow. In the meantime, accept yourself and your situation for what it is, without judgment. Find the joy in it where you can. Soon enough, if you don't judge and stop trying to obtain or change anything, joy will be all you see. Do not try to analyze; if you come up upon something you don't understand (especially if it causes negative feelings to come up) just let it go and don't give it another thought. Reading a romance novel is not the same as being in love; analyzing the nature of Reality/God/Life is not the same as beingand living it. Do not compare yourself to where you think you should be, or past experiences, or future ideals, and accept even the 'unspiritual' aspects of your present self and your present situation for what they are: this perfect expression of the divine manifesting now. What else do you have but right now?

Yes, this resonates with me.

[lostinstrangeworld]

er what are you on about??

I think I said if you feel depressed and felt life was point less and there a load of suffering going on in the world the maybe helping somebody would help!! FFS

I am mentally content with myself always have been....I don`t feel the need to help anyone.....I enjoy it

This resonates with me too. :)

[disorder2k8]

the meaning of life only has significance to you, because its contextual

to some the meaning of life is to work hard, get money and create children, ignoring what everyone else has to say about anything and be part of the 'machine'

then others like us, spend all their time 'figuring it out', the who, when and why we are here?

you could say, people are like left & right brain hemispheres, there are fantasy types and realistic types

there can only be visible form when photons hit a physical shape, there is also no true definition of 'nothing' because there is always something

[lyghtkynge]

then others like us, spend all their time 'figuring it out', the who, when and why we are here?

you could say, people are like left & right brain hemispheres, there are fantasy types and realistic types

there can only be visible form when photons hit a physical shape, there is also no true definition of 'nothing' because there is always something

Hey, nice observations.

But, you don't 'figure' the Creational Principle(s) 'out'...this is The WORD, Pre-Existant, beyond Duality (as Mind). It is, during the Journey of the Cycle of Light (each individual's), slowly 'Absorbed' and 'Recognized,' then 'REALized' as the Journey reaches the Mid-Point/Level (Silver-Gold Awareness, the Middle Path, or Core Shaft).

NOTHING is Inexplicable, and is indeed, 'Nothing.' It's has Pre-Existant Structure & Form, but is Really Not There...It Exists as a Shadow-Mirroring~Mirror-Shadowing of Itself. This Nothing is beyond the Comprehension of Reasoning Mind or Direct Experience (I've experienced spontaneous cosmic consciousness thrice, once lasting 3 days at a younger age)...It Becomes Observable In Extreme Higher Awareness, for It's Absorption Knowledge (different than 'reason') is Now Lit to Awareness (of One Self).

Actually, you can call Nothing, Something, which is much argued, but it is Not, for the descriptive sentence above (Shadow-Mirroring~....) is how the Seed Forms Potential, then Aquires Potency. Most seed remains as described, In-Between Shadowing-Mirrorings of S/He, the First Intitial Impetus, or Original Motion, bringing into Being-Presence The Realization of The WORD.

Each are trying to achieve this; in fact, Everything (All) is/are Incipient Universes, 'Creators' of their own Universe. Many die out. The Nothingness is Void as opposed to Vast, and takes a very specific Shape (unmentionable even if I wanted to describe it). Inherent Within Nothing is the Ability to Compress Itself into Awareness of Itself, which causes the Emanational Potential, Presence, to 'Birth' (come into Recognition if Itself as Being).

If I were to say more, it would just create a wide gap of 'reasonings,' and this is insufficient to Relate to the Grasp of Nothingness, which I was Shown by a Naga is full consciousness (they are teachers of Mankind, and this one was the Silver Serpent).

It answers All questions of Pre-Existence, but not to low mind (nor High mind, which directly Recognizes It). That which is in the Middle is Not It, Only the Ever-Presence of It, sufficient to Absoprtion of It's All Everythingness, Awareness of Nothingness.

Riddles? Each Motion, REAL or Apparent, brings into Being-Presence another Shadow-Mirroring~Mirror-Shadowing of The WORD. This is due to the Motional ARC'ing of Consciousness, which is Horizontal Substance-Force (-), and Awareness, which is Vertical Presence-Force (+), like a Cosmic Plant that growns Up from Soil (Soul-Spirit).


Conceptualizing Nothing as Something, is the effort of Reason to Understand, when it is not part of 'comprehension.' Your very Self, Being-Presence, is part of the Universal Concensus Reality called the (local) Universe, of which there are Infinite quantity (Universes). It partakes of Nothingness or Pre-Existence, Absolute (Absolute) Cancellation of Allness, neither Void nor Vast in Nature. Nothingness' Formless/Form is The Prime Secret, which even ET's do not/barely understand, as they themselves are mystified by the Ancient Pure Wisdom of the Higher Naga Race.

Who can explain Pre-Existence? I have Seen It, and cannot do so with any effort, intensified or otherwise. However, Here is a Picture of It:


Astounding, yes?

[deca]

er no

i would put up my beautiful daughters smiling content face, but I don`t want to be identified or her in what I post.

There nothing wrong in make a home and having kids.....ask me that's whats life all about, I know some prefer alternative life styles that's ok with me as long it does not effect my way of life.

I enjoy my mind and body and my mind use Escapism a lot and also my imagination and creative side , it also can basically mentally switch of.

Also my body can do repetitive boring chores why my mind is else were thinking amazing things, also it can be very alert to whats going on and tuned in and in the zone.

So my mind and body can work almost like separate entity's divorced from each other or as one tuned and focused

I also like myself and my physical form and enjoy earthly pleasures , finding your own balance and harmony it what its about at the end of the day.

so you can imagine nothing great? great have some peace and some tranquility of the mind? can you also imagine something useful,funny,entertaining and make it a reality?

A don`t think you can think it real, after all what did thought alone ever do .
http://www.abcde.com.hk/mricard/MR761-HB.jpg

[deca]

without a form how are you ever going to sense anything? or feel?

unless that's you purpose to sense nothing and to feel nothing?

well guess what you get to experience that as well, its called being dead

until I die I going to enjoy and experience the ups and downs of life.

think about all the star dust and atoms and energy etc that make you up , how much of a journey they been on to create your present form......dam I going to have a ball!

[deca]

the meaning of life only has significance to you, because its contextual

to some the meaning of life is to work hard, get money and create children, ignoring what everyone else has to say about anything and be part of the 'machine'

then others like us, spend all their time 'figuring it out', the who, when and why we are here?

you could say, people are like left & right brain hemispheres, there are fantasy types and realistic types

there can only be visible form when photons hit a physical shape, there is also no true definition of 'nothing' because there is always something

Obviously you have not had kids and seen a beautifully life being born and watching , helping them grow up , its amazing life changing thing.

er are you really surprised they ignore your amazing nothing?

[dhjana]

Obviously there could only be NOTHING if there's nothing and it CAN'T, if there's anything to define it, whatewer it would be...

FORMLESS could not exist simply by the means of thought - if i can whatewer, eaven think, then there is something - atleast me, my basis, whatever else created on thoes basis, the basis of thoes basis, ... I'ts obvious that within language there's no reasonable reason to that...

If there ware NOTHING what is to say that...?

It seams a laogic makes a fool out of me, or... maybe it's me...?