UK: The Truth About Cannabis

[clachan]

Whiterain,heres one for you.
When i was a young man i was a dreamer,i had this dream that one day i could escape the bullshit,paying £2 for 5 red chilli peppers wrapped in plastic, you know the crack.
So i decided the way out was do it for yourself,you cant rely on them to feed ya......you and what God has provided is it.So in 1985 i that was where i was going,and being a stuborn capricorn i didn,t let the fact that i was living in a high rise council flat bother me.
Today im very nearly at the summit,I bought a big house for space,land for crops and goats and the pool because the heat in summer is torcher for Charlie aged 5 and Chloe 7.
Im not at all materalistic and you cant eat money.
Does that answer the rat race remark ?

[truedruid]

I never let it take over my life, where I started comparing strains or having a wet dream over what somebody was cooking up in there hydrophonic lab.
This is what happens with prohibition is applied, if you don't fully study it and make it apart of your life you end up smoking soap bar like numb skull.
Legalise it and have experts who can guarantee quality and authenticity.

[supertzar]

Tarzan,you said in your previos post that phelps comes from your home town and that he was going to attend the local hash bash,but you didn,t know if he went.
Are we expected to beleive that ? You,an ardent smoker in touch with others of like mind in the same town and DOSN,T KNOW if the most sucessfull olympian in history was there or not ??
It is quite frankly funny now, MICHEAL PHELPS AT HASH BASH !!!
I think ineed a strong coffee !

Tarzan is awesome! Thanks. I need to not talk to you anymore because I feel I am becoming abusive to people I think are obstinate and stupid and I don't want to go that way. Like I said, enjoy your prejudiced, ignorant life.

[clachan]

utter ball, it's what makes us different to animals, humans experiment, have done for thousands of years, it's only been the last hundred that we have only been allowed alcohol and tobacco, but that has to do with multi national companies exploting the public.


sorry jammasterj13, I don't, if the world was full of people like clachan, who smokes soap bar that is unadultrated with crap then shout out as if he knows it all, we would be better off under dictatorship.
that is all everyone who is pro=cannabis is asking for numb skulls like clachan, want to twist that fact. He has never used any of the teacher plants and does not have a clue, which is evident in his posts. I wish he would stop being a troll, if he want to contribute then at least bring some knowledge apart from My daughter know this bloke. All I wish is for cannabis to be legalised so quality research can be carried out. If it is that bad then at least people have a choice as to whether to consume it or not, but the fact is our prime minister claims it is deadly and should stay illegal and alcohol stay being sold at supermarkets 24hrs a day. Tobacco has only had a dangerous label since the sixties, A doctor in the fifties was laughed at when he claimed it caused cancer then the call for cannabis to be legalised and the government decided to toughen up on smoking. there are millions of the public that feel the government are deceiving us and that surly has to be detrimental to social life, if they are going to say something is deadly when it clearly is not what else are they lying about.

A presumption........from 1984 it was dark rocky,leb and afghani black.From 1995 to 2000 i lived in western Ireland and smoked really good organic home grown,what is soap bar,i honestly dont know.
And before you say "the Irish climate isn,t any good for weed,let me tell you, the plants my mate had were 7 foot tall and so heavy with heads that they fell over in August under their own weight,we used to dry them in a shed with a dehumidifier and then pick the heads disrgarding the leaves. At the end of each evening we,d have a ball of resin which we had scrapped off our fingers.
The magic mushrooms were wicked too over there too,so any one who has made assumptions regarding my experience,think on idiot ! LOL

[jammasterj13]

utter ball, it's what makes us different to animals, humans experiment, have done for thousands of years, it's only been the last hundred that we have only been allowed alcohol and tobacco, but that has to do with multi national companies exploting the public.


sorry jammasterj13, I don't, if the world was full of people like clachan, who smokes soap bar that is unadultrated with crap then shout out as if he knows it all, we would be better off under dictatorship.
that is all everyone who is pro=cannabis is asking for numb skulls like clachan, want to twist that fact. He has never used any of the teacher plants and does not have a clue, which is evident in his posts. I wish he would stop being a troll, if he want to contribute then at least bring some knowledge apart from My daughter know this bloke. All I wish is for cannabis to be legalised so quality research can be carried out. If it is that bad then at least people have a choice as to whether to consume it or not, but the fact is our prime minister claims it is deadly and should stay illegal and alcohol stay being sold at supermarkets 24hrs a day. Tobacco has only had a dangerous label since the sixties, A doctor in the fifties was laughed at when he claimed it caused cancer then the call for cannabis to be legalised and the government decided to toughen up on smoking. there are millions of the public that feel the government are deceiving us and that surly has to be detrimental to social life, if they are going to say something is deadly when it clearly is not what else are they lying about.


Yep, I agree

We had the same problem with Ecstacy back in the day. The pills were purer and more expensive, but the side effects were minimal, less than alcohol anyway. Now you can get a disco biscuit for less than a loaf of bread and pint of milk, the quality is shit and you have to take more pills to get the same effect as yesteryear.

The case of alcohol is just pathetic, A&E's up and down the country overworked because of binge drinking and they aint the only ones etc etc etc. The fact is the PTB don't want to stop demonising cannabis because they know and we know that the herb would put a lot of there infrastructures out of business. They are not in the Peace and Love business.

[clachan]

Has somebody told off idiot for being so vicious ?
His tone has mellowed........... the thought police perhaps ?

[clachan]

"My mumma told me you gotta put the past behind ya before ya can move on"
Forrest Gump
Greenbow
Alabama where sunny skies are blue

[drhemp]

Please can we refrain from personal insults or turning this thread into a slanging match. Many thanks.

[slodave]

This is what happens with prohibition is applied, if you don't fully study it and make it apart of your life you end up smoking soap bar like numb skull.
Legalise it and have experts who can guarantee quality and authenticity.
and that is exactly what is happening in california today, but its all about the almighty dollar. to become a legal user for medicinal purposes, you need to find a doctor which is easy, pay the hundred or so dollars and he will give you a legal users card good for a year. then you go to the cannabis pharmacies, there are lots of them in the larger cities, and pick what you want, and the prices go up with the quality. to buy the same on the streets without a card, the price is doubled.

[slodave]

totnes? is that in the U.K.?

[paradise_1000]

I want to know who the fuck is spraying the skunk these days out of 6 dif people I went to to buy a draw last week all of it was sprayed with shit !!!

well fucked off at the moment having to smoke bush weed :mad:

[slodave]

I think what has happened is perhaps Clachan took a lot of drugs when he was younger, had a negative experience and burned himself out. What he fails to realise is this the exception rather than the norm, so he feels obliged to warn others of the danger, based on his experiences, even though the danger, certainly with cannabis, just isn't really there for most people, aside from whatever the risks are of inhaling cannabis smoke, but as adults we should be allowed make that choice ourselves (or use a vaporiser). In the past reports always said cannabis smoke is less harmful than tobacco smoke, so I'm very dubious of recent reports claiming it's worse, for starters, cannabis doesn't have a load of nasty highly carcinogenic chemicals sprayed in it to make it burn easier or preserve it's freshness.

I guess it's very easy for people to think inside this box when our own Government and media are also constantly peddling these same lies about the dangers of cannabis.

What we must do is keep the 'truth about cannabis' out there, so adults can make an informed choice and hopefully one day when this Government of war criminals are in The Hague where they belong, we can go about the business of legalising cannabis in the UK, thus taking out the criminal black market, ensuring dangerous forms of cannabis doesn't hit the streets, raise tax revenue to help the needy and poor, and make it much harder for minors to get hold of cannabis.
there are no dangerous forms of cannabis!

[whiterain]

The bottom lineis Tarzan man is that the human body and mind is better off without drugs end of story,it doesn,t matter who says what,you know that.
you are an addict and so is hemp and idiot.
The individual simple functions as it should do without drugs,,true?
I might be a "fucking cunt"[LOL] but i dont need drink or drugs,end of.
YOU DO !!!
I used to score my shit off a bloke called Dougle, a nice bloke, untill one day i went round for my usual bit of rocky, the letter box opened and he shouted " fuck off ". His problem......his supply had dried up,what are you like when that happens to you
You have now gone the same way as idiot,i do feel sorry for the legalise cannabis campaign if its full of fools like you.

if i ever heard someone who could do with a spliff...

[whiterain]

Its simple really......A perfectly normal, healther human being does not need any substance to improve itself,it is as it should be like a bird,fish,lion,bear,wolf or dolphin......as the creator intended.
All else is irrelavent.

yes but humans who have been fcked over and programmed to shit can do with some help breaking out of the box. glad you know what the creators intentions are tho

[slodave]

A presumption........from 1984 it was dark rocky,leb and afghani black.From 1995 to 2000 i lived in western Ireland and smoked really good organic home grown,what is soap bar,i honestly dont know.
And before you say "the Irish climate isn,t any good for weed,let me tell you, the plants my mate had were 7 foot tall and so heavy with heads that they fell over in August under their own weight,we used to dry them in a shed with a dehumidifier and then pick the heads disrgarding the leaves. At the end of each evening we,d have a ball of resin which we had scrapped off our fingers.
The magic mushrooms were wicked too over there too,so any one who has made assumptions regarding my experience,think on idiot ! LOL
agreed, a person, with the right knowledge, can grow good bud at the north pole, or anywhere.

[drhemp]

there are no dangerous forms of cannabis!

When I talk about dangerous forms of cannabis, I mean soapbar, which is mixed with nasty stuff like henna or plastic and even may have ketamine in it or gritweed, which is grass that has had silcon sprayed on it to make it heavier and to look like it is high in THC content. This is done by unscrupulous criminal suppliers, is dangerous and we can thank our prohibitionist government that such dangerous stuff is smoked in the UK.

If the Government really cared about our health, which of course they do not, they would legalise cannabis to stop these dangerous kinds being sold.

[drhemp]

totnes? is that in the U.K.?

Yes Totnes is in the UK, it's a small town in South Devon and it's one of the alternative capitals of the UK.

[whiterain]

Whiterain,heres one for you.
When i was a young man i was a dreamer,i had this dream that one day i could escape the bullshit,paying £2 for 5 red chilli peppers wrapped in plastic, you know the crack.
So i decided the way out was do it for yourself,you cant rely on them to feed ya......you and what God has provided is it.So in 1985 i that was where i was going,and being a stuborn capricorn i didn,t let the fact that i was living in a high rise council flat bother me.
Today im very nearly at the summit,I bought a big house for space,land for crops and goats and the pool because the heat in summer is torcher for Charlie aged 5 and Chloe 7.
Im not at all materalistic and you cant eat money.
Does that answer the rat race remark ?

i dont get what you mean. i was saying as long as you dont have the rat race to worry about, whats to stop you from lighting up occasionally?

congratulations, you seem very proud of your life. i have absolutely no idea why you want to tell me all that though..?

[whiterain]

A presumption........from 1984 it was dark rocky,leb and afghani black.From 1995 to 2000 i lived in western Ireland and smoked really good organic home grown,what is soap bar,i honestly dont know.
And before you say "the Irish climate isn,t any good for weed,let me tell you, the plants my mate had were 7 foot tall and so heavy with heads that they fell over in August under their own weight,we used to dry them in a shed with a dehumidifier and then pick the heads disrgarding the leaves. At the end of each evening we,d have a ball of resin which we had scrapped off our fingers.
The magic mushrooms were wicked too over there too,so any one who has made assumptions regarding my experience,think on idiot ! LOL

unfortunately sentiment like that makes your experience regarding this subject all to obvious

[slodave]

agreed, a person, with the right knowledge, can grow good bud at the north pole, or anywhere.
mushrooms, awesome, especially when natural, and picked and eaten on the spot. enlightening, but a little "dark" for my tastes. I much perfer a mega-dose of fresh peyote for a truely enlightening, mind enhancing, eye opening experience. but that is a thread for another day, this is all about the weed, my apologies.

[charas]

I think the creator gave us "tools" for the mind on earth.:)

[slodave]

Yes Totnes is in the UK, it's a small town in South Devon and it's one of the alternative capitals of the UK.
been to london, en route to cairo then nairobi, was in london only long enough to find that the circus had no elephants, and was only a traffic circle, saw the crown jewels, changing of guards, big ben, rode the subway, got ripped off at a clip joint, bought some kind of wierd spongy substance off the streets that wasn't hashish at all and didn't even smoke at all. i drank a warm beer, and played darts in a pub. got a room for a few hours, then back to heathrow, and off to giza...it wasn't till i arrived in kenya when i found the good.

[slodave]

I think the creator gave us "tools" for the mind on earth.:)
food for the mind

[slodave]

I want to know who the fuck is spraying the skunk these days out of 6 dif people I went to to buy a draw last week all of it was sprayed with shit !!!

well fucked off at the moment having to smoke bush weed :mad:
i thought that they stopped spraying weed back in the 60's in viet nam when they sprayed with paraquot. ????? wow. not here in california. intresting. for what purpose?

[paradise_1000]

i thought that they stopped spraying weed back in the 60's in viet nam when they sprayed with paraquot. ????? wow. not here in california. intresting. for what purpose?


They spray weak badly grown skunk with silicon or god knows what with an airbrush to get a Cristal effect to make it look like high grade. London and the south east of England is flooded with the shit :mad:

[supertzar]

They spray weak badly grown skunk with silicon or god knows what with an airbrush to get a Cristal effect to make it look like high grade. London and the south east of England is flooded with the shit :mad:

I wonder if it is part of the propaganda to demonize skunk. Like the gov is putting that stuff out there to even turn smokers against "skunk."

[paradise_1000]

I wonder if it is part of the propaganda to demonize skunk. Like the gov is putting that stuff out there to even turn smokers against "skunk."


I am starting to think that

This spraying thing only came about in the last few years and only after the gov started banging on about the dangers of skunk !

:mad: Never seen this on thai or ses


Its def a mass scale thing :mad: I miss a good skunk joint

[drael]

Its simple really......A perfectly normal, healther human being does not need any substance to improve itself,it is as it should be like a bird,fish,lion,bear,wolf or dolphin......as the creator intended.
All else is irrelavent.

Human history disagrees with you. Every culture in human history has had a substance that it used to get high. Every single one. From kava, to pot, to khat, to booze, every single culture has had one. Even Innuit's ferment fish to make booze.

In addition its very arguable that human culture and history would be remarkably different without these substances. Early cultures use of substances shaped their, and possibly sparked much of their spirituality. From aboriginal dreamtime, to the amazing symbols and forms of south america, or africa, the uplifting spiritual touch of drugs can be seen everywhere. As it stands, its fairly clear to me, culture, as it exists would be enitrely different without drugs.

And one is forgetting about medicine. Marijuana, is proven to be an amzaing source of unused medecines, capable of preventing cancer, preventing death or pain from inflammation, reducing neurodegeneration in the brain (preventing alzemers, parkinsons, dementia in old age), anti-nasea effects unparralleled in conventional medicine, anti-pain, hunger stimulation and muscle relaxation effects that prevent spasms in MS.

Even in a HEALTHY person, marijuana based medicines could prevent cancer (up to around 95% effective), and slow aging. One day, in a distant future that laughs at such superstitious attitudes, everyone will take a pill each day, based on cannabis, or even a preperation of cannabis itself.

And animals also get high. Elephants create cider, by fermenting apples. There are birds and small mammals that eat marijuana and psychoactive plants. Actually there are too many examples to list...It very widespread, animals getting high, purposefully.

In short YOU ARE WRONG. I invite to actually counter any of this with a coherent argument.

And PS, god created pot, just like he made fruit. If your a christian, remember the garden of eden, where we are supposed to enjoy ALL the fruits of the garden?

Well were still in it. Nature is a rich source of ultrapotent medicine, food, and pleasure. Its not evil, nor is our deep mind, altered states, trances or anything else natural to our basic condition, and the world.

[octopusrex]

Y'know..

I just skim-read all the NORLM stuff.

FUCK EM ALL! They are trying to justify governments which have clearly lost their reason.

Smoke 'em out, folks. They're up to no good anywhere!

We have a fucking BROKEN GOVERNMENT.

Lets fix it.

[truedruid]

High Drael,

everyone will take a pill each day, based on cannabis, or even a preperation of cannabis itself.
It' an oil and should be rubbed on the outside of the body.

remember the garden of eden, where we are supposed to enjoy ALL the fruits of the garden?except from the tree of life, once eve ate the APPLE:confused: they become aware of theirselves. God said, "now they have eaten from the tree of life they will become Gods like US. who are the US. Then he banished the from the garden to live with the others, Who are the OTHERS.
The whole story is cock and bull, try to confuse and make man live in fear as if that was our last chance.
Even plants that are poisons and kill are not illegal, we are on a planet full of wonderous plants that could make this world like heaven, yet one popular plant is made illegal, and they won't tell you why, but the main reason is because you will think for yourself. once the other plants become popular they will clamp down on them too.

In short YOU ARE WRONG. I invite to actually counter any of this with a coherent argument. He won't because he can't, even the powers to be can't reply to that. It becomes very frustrating when I read utter bull on newspaper forums, where all the anti-cannabis brigade are posting every second and as soon as you post the truth they close the forum. we are forced silence, because we are not affraid.

I am glad there are numb skulls like clachan otherwise forums like this would just be one page long and everyone would just agree that the government are hiding something when it's talking about cannabis. I wish all the other anti-cannabis people would speak up and give their knowledge as to why this great herb should be eradicated from the planet.

[charas]

I wonder about the demonization of "skunk".
Because modern hydro type "skunk" to me is a fundamentally a different product, I don't know how to describe it but it seems somewhat "synthetic" compared to outdoor herb.
The high is not of the same spiritual calibur and seems just not as "sweet" mentally.
This is not a subtle diffrence but very obvious to me.
Maybe could be compared to a bargain bucket compared to organic freerange chicken.
A mcdougals compared to wild venison burger lol.

I have said it before somewhere, but I see evidence that suggests modern hydroponic pot (Il refrain to use the term "skunk" for now because skunk can mean a lot of things)
Is part of a conspiracy against real outdoor organic truly mind opening herb!

Although this could be due to a personal preference, I know quite a few others some of them been smoking for a looooong time, who will tell you a similar thing.

[supertzar]

Try some bioponic herb and see what you think of that.

[drael]

Indoor doesnt mean hydroponic. Indoor means under lights. Hydroponic means artificially watered and nutriented.

You can grow indoors in soil, and its a fair bit more natural, less harsh nutrients at least.

Essentially the balance of cannibinoids, or the particular stone is about genetics, not growing method. Things like white widow and some other amsterdam ones are as high as hash in THC, where as outdoor breeds tend to be more evened out over the thousands of different cannibinoids, because THC has been breed for.. With stronger THC indoor types (they tend to be indoors, but not all indoors are like this, nor all outdoors not), with that high high feeling, rather than stoney stone feeling, less is more I think, and then its enjoyable and useful.

Though if you compare to say, hemp, youll see that actually overtime, all cannibnoid levels have been effected by breeding in some way. Cannibis was originally a prehistoric plant before we discovered it. It must have had some level of high, and we then breed for that, leading eventually to breeding for thc & crystals, which may get carried away sometimes.

Still, I think most normal indoor varieties are still fairly balanced, like afghan, or silver pearl for example. Some breeds are a little too weighted for mega buzz. But thats really been going on for along time, since the seventies at least. Its the white widow, bubblegum hash levels that are newish, the asterdam varieties. They often breed out other cannibinoids there because they want optimimum energy, ie no body stone, which is great if you want to smoke all day, and still be able to work or go shopping, but perhaps not for everyone.

[truedruid]

Because modern hydro type "skunk" to me is a fundamentally a different product,It is exactly the same, there is no diffrence, you are only mimicing the sun, the problem is flusing out the nutrients and curing it correctly. ideally sun is better with natural soil. (cannabis grows for nothing,) but because of the illegality of it that people have to grow it in a cupboard. So that pushes up the price, thus cause's cannabis to become a commodity, the only problem with a commodity is people try to concentrate it so it is worth more, if it grew in your back garden it wouldn't be so strong.

[supertzar]

It is exactly the same, there is no diffrence, you are only mimicing the sun, the problem is flusing out the nutrients and curing it correctly. ideally sun is better with natural soil. (cannabis grows for nothing,) but because of the illegality of it that people have to grow it in a cupboard. So that pushes up the price, thus cause's cannabis to become a commodity, the only problem with a commodity is people try to concentrate it so it is worth more, if it grew in your back garden it wouldn't be so strong.

I think there is a difference between herb grown organically and grown with chemical ferts. I'd rather smoke indoor organic than outdoor chemical.

[lewi]

Coca Cola Weed Song - YouTube

[charas]

Also I don't buy the theory that cannabis was weaker in the 60'/70's,
especially considering they had really good quality hash back then coming from the east.
Some of the strongest, trippiest herb I smoked was an unhybridized tropical type weed that would have been very similar probably before the 60's!

Believe me I am a fan of potent cannabis, the difference lies in the quality of the high when comparing new to old.

As with pretty much everything earthly, we are all different and like different things, diet is a good example of this, there is no one diet that fits all.

One persons necter can be anothers poison.

Yes I think indoor homegrown is FAR better than commercial hydro.
Ultimately though I must say, with cannabis, indoors under lights can never match sun scorched herb!! :cool:

[drhemp]

Also I don't buy the theory that cannabis was weaker in the 60'/70's,
especially considering they had really good quality hash back then coming from the east.
Some of the strongest, trippiest herb I smoked was an unhybridized tropical type weed that would have been very similar probably before the 60's!

Believe me I am a fan of potent cannabis, the difference lies in the quality of the high when comparing new to old.

As with pretty much everything earthly, we are all different and like different things, diet is a good example of this, there is no one diet that fits all.

One persons necter can be anothers poison.

Yes I think indoor homegrown is FAR better than commercial hydro.
Ultimately though I must say, with cannabis, indoors under lights can never match sun scorched herb!! :cool:

Yes, I've been exposing this truth for the last few years.

It's funny how the story of super strength cannabis comes only from those who used to smoke it years ago, but have since stopped smoking since either taking up a career in politics, the police, or as a Daily Mail journalist.

I wish there was plenty of super strength cannabis about now alas, there is not.

[clachan]

Hello Dreal
I hope you are well and nice to meet you.
Do you use cannabis,from where are you coming as in you previous post you wisely advised against partisipation.You mentioned coherency,Iam fully sober and have presence of mind so dont concern yourself with me,maybe some of the others who may have splith in hand should think on this.
Regarding cannabis in its medicinal use i will elaberate on previous statements i have made. The medicinal properties of the drug are wonderfull and should be explored to the fullest.What are your veiws on 1.Cannabis and developing foetuses ? 2.Cannabis and opperating machinary including cars ?
Please dont hit me with a load of web sites it is you Im addressing.Ofcourse there are many other related issues but lets stick to this at the moment.
I will keep my points simple and logical as i dont agree with "bullshit baffles brains" phylosophy.
The title of this thread is "THE TRUTH ABOUT CANNABIS".If you care to read all the previous post i think you will agree that it is i who has been the most open and honest regarding my personal life and experiences,this has been used against me in a vindictive way[not bothered]
One of the truths about this drug is that it has negatives which the pro group refuse to acknowledge,is this called denial ? I dont care how many people claim cannabis isnot addictive,the fact is that these same people smoke every day and probably have done for years,some professionals use the phrase "habit".I call this prison "fort cannabis" and ihas many inmates.It would appear these addicts use the possitve attributes of the drug to justfy themseves.
If we are to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth then this reality must be addressed.Lets say for arguments sake that 10% of people who take up the passtime have trouble stopping and 5% become dependent for life,is it not worth bringing this to their attention?If you come back to me with the argument that 0% become habitual/addicted i will cease our debate as in my veiw it is obviously the case.Also if you bring any other drug into this i will remind you of the thread.
As you can see from my spelling i not well educated man in the conventional sense but my argument is strong and basic TELL THE WHOLE TRUTH and dont leave out the bad bits.
Could this be about different personalities,ones ok with the drug while another becomes imprisoned?I once became freindly with a group of phylosephy students who came to blows over a bit of resin...madness.
What do we advise our kids to do when faced with cannabis for the first time,tell them it fine,no probs get on with it son.Also we must mention the financial implications,there are some who would rather smoke than eat or keep warm,is this rational ?
To finish,this drug is illegal in most of Europe,this thead is not about that,apart from to say that you could end up in jail with a criminal record[TRUTH]. Has it not occured to the pro group that our government is controlled by the hidden hand and they want things the way they are for a purpose.Criminal record=career,travel problems ect.

[truedruid]

What do we advise our kids to do when faced with cannabis for the first time,tell them it fine,no probs get on with it son.
I think we take the same attitude that we have towards alcohol and going to the gym, or even what I did concerning sweets when they were young, but with prohibition we don't get to find out until our kids have skipped school or failed to work and are smoking dangerous chemicals. problem is they learn from there friends, schools can only say it's not healthy, so all they learn is 'this stuff is wicked'.MARIJUANA USE DURING PREGNANCY HARMS THE FETUS

A powerful accusation in anti-drug campaigns is that children are permanently harmed by their mothers' use of drugs during pregnancy. Today, it is commonly claimed that marijuana is a cause of birth defects and development deficits.

THE FACTS

A number of studies claimed reported low birth weight and physical abnormalities among babies exposed to marijuana in utero. 43 However, when other factors known to affect pregnancy outcomes were controlled for - for example, maternal age, socioeconomic class, and alcohol and tobacco use - the association between marijuana use and adverse fetal effects disappeared. 44

Numerous other studies have failed to find negative impacts from marijuana exposure. 45 However, when negative outcomes are found, they tend to be widely publicized, regardless of the quality of the study.

It is now often claimed that marijuana use during pregnancy causes childhood leukemia. The basis for this claim is one study, in which . 5% of the mothers of leukemic children admitted to using marijuana prior to or during pregnancy. A "control group" of mothers with normal children was then created and questioned by telephone about previous drug use. Their reported .5 % marijuana use-rate was used to calculate a 10-fold greater risk of leukemia for children born to marijuana users. 46 Given national surveys showing marijuana prevalence rates of at least 10%, these "control group" mothers almost certainly under-reported their drug use to strangers on the telephone.

Also used as evidence of marijuana-induced fetal harm are two longitudinal studies, in which the children of marijuana users were examined repeatedly. However, on closer examination, the effects of marijuana appear to be quite minimal, if existent at all.

After finding a slight deficit in visual responsiveness among marijuana-exposed newborns, no differences were found at six months, 12 months, 18 months, or 24 months. 47 At age 3, the only difference (after controlling for confounding variables) was that children of "moderate" smokers had superior psycho-motor skills. At age 4, children of "heavy" marijuana users (averaging 18.7 joints/week) had lower scores on one subscale of one standardized test of verbal development. 48 At age 6, these same children scored lower on one computerized task - that measuring "vigilance." On dozens of others scales and subscales, no differences were ever found. 49

In another study, standardized IQ tests were administered to marijuana-exposed and unexposed three year-olds. Researchers found no differences in the overall scores. However, by dividing the sample by race, they found - among African-American children only - lower scores on one subscale for those exposed during the first trimester and lower scores on a different subscale for those exposed during the second trimester. 50

Although it is sensible to advise pregnant women to abstain from using most drugs - including marijuana - the weight of scientific evidence indicates that marijuana has few adverse consequences for the developing human fetus.

You need to stop throwing you dummy out of the pram, no-one is saying smoking is harmless, but what evidence do you have that eating cannabis is not good for you, or even vapourising.

One of the truths about this drug is that it has negatives which the pro group refuse to acknowledge
No-one has refused this they have asked for proof.

MARIJUANA USE DURING PREGNANCY HARMS THE FETUS

A powerful accusation in anti-drug campaigns is that children are permanently harmed by their mothers' use of drugs during pregnancy. Today, it is commonly claimed that marijuana is a cause of birth defects and development deficits.

THE FACTS

A number of studies claimed reported low birth weight and physical abnormalities among babies exposed to marijuana in utero. 43 However, when other factors known to affect pregnancy outcomes were controlled for - for example, maternal age, socioeconomic class, and alcohol and tobacco use - the association between marijuana use and adverse fetal effects disappeared. 44

Numerous other studies have failed to find negative impacts from marijuana exposure. 45 However, when negative outcomes are found, they tend to be widely publicized, regardless of the quality of the study.

It is now often claimed that marijuana use during pregnancy causes childhood leukemia. The basis for this claim is one study, in which . 5% of the mothers of leukemic children admitted to using marijuana prior to or during pregnancy. A "control group" of mothers with normal children was then created and questioned by telephone about previous drug use. Their reported .5 % marijuana use-rate was used to calculate a 10-fold greater risk of leukemia for children born to marijuana users. 46 Given national surveys showing marijuana prevalence rates of at least 10%, these "control group" mothers almost certainly under-reported their drug use to strangers on the telephone.

Also used as evidence of marijuana-induced fetal harm are two longitudinal studies, in which the children of marijuana users were examined repeatedly. However, on closer examination, the effects of marijuana appear to be quite minimal, if existent at all.

After finding a slight deficit in visual responsiveness among marijuana-exposed newborns, no differences were found at six months, 12 months, 18 months, or 24 months. 47 At age 3, the only difference (after controlling for confounding variables) was that children of "moderate" smokers had superior psycho-motor skills. At age 4, children of "heavy" marijuana users (averaging 18.7 joints/week) had lower scores on one subscale of one standardized test of verbal development. 48 At age 6, these same children scored lower on one computerized task - that measuring "vigilance." On dozens of others scales and subscales, no differences were ever found. 49

In another study, standardized IQ tests were administered to marijuana-exposed and unexposed three year-olds. Researchers found no differences in the overall scores. However, by dividing the sample by race, they found - among African-American children only - lower scores on one subscale for those exposed during the first trimester and lower scores on a different subscale for those exposed during the second trimester. 50

Although it is sensible to advise pregnant women to abstain from using most drugs - including marijuana - the weight of scientific evidence indicates that marijuana has few adverse consequences for the developing human fetus.

[clachan]

Truedruid
i have not read your post as iam no longer interested in your veiws
im sorry it has come to this,iwll only skip any further posts by yourself
can we leave it at that

[drhemp]

Very good post druid.

I have 2 small kids, (6 & almost 2), so as yet have not developed any interest in cannabis or booze.

Depends on what age they were, if and when they come into contact with either booze or alcohol, as to how I would react. I should certainly not encourage it if they were under 18.

From my own experience when I was younger, I had fairly liberal parents so believe it or not, I never really got up to that kind of thing until I was in my 20s and from memory some of my friends who did get up to that kind of stuff when they were in their teens were the ones who had over bearing strict parents.

I have a friend now whose teenage son started smoking pot and they were not happy about it, as I understand it was resolved by them talking with him rather than reading the riot act.

I don't smoke tobacco, but my partner does and my kids are aware she does this outside the house, we just tell them it's something some adults do and don't really talk about it, they're not old enough to understand yet. I only get my pipe out when they're safely tucked up in bed, though I drink beer in front of them, which in my opinion is socially no different.

It's all about moderation. I remember going out and getting blind drunk when I was 16 and my dear old dad trying to explain to me how it was important to not get too drunk and try to pace myself. Certainly cannabis is nowhere near as bad as our lying Government tells us it is, but there's nothing to be surprised about on that one. "Hey, your government is lying to you!" - well there's a revelation.

Personally, I have found cannabis to be a very positive thing in my life, and I feel sorry for the tiny minority of people who have had bad experiences with it, though in all cases, I'm sure this is because they abused it, rather than use it sensibly like I always have. At least cannabis doesn't give hangovers, like beer can, another vice of mine.

At the end of the day, adults should be allowed to do what they like with their own bodies. Yes educate people, but we don't need the nanny state, and I should argue by lying about the dangers of cannabis, which is what this government does, is actually counterproductive and probably leads to more serious drug abuse in our society, because people will not listen to any message about the dangers of drugs, because they will assume because they are lying about cannabis, they are lying about other drugs, which they may well not be.

[charas]

To clachan and others who say the weed has negative aspects, I will give you a quote from a wise man:

"The herb, reveal you to yourself" - Bob Marley.

This is not to say that the person who has a negative experience on pot is a "bad" person.
That is to say, it opens the mind in a manner that can be likened to a dam collapsing hehe.
Any reppressed thoughts and feelings over the years may come flooding fourth.

Also, as the herb opens chakras, you become far more sensitive to the energy of the surrounding environment, so if the energy perhaps has a negative tinge, you pick up on it and you may feel tense and uneasy.

Its almost like a catalyst, as in it makes everything "more".
You lazy and sit around smoking pot watchin tv?
Then weeds gonna make being lazy so much more enjoyable you gonna stay lazy lol.

How about if your an active person who enjoys a puff before taking your daily jog?
The weed can make the jog more fun and will not make you lazy!!
It even may boost stamina as cannabis smoke opens the alvioli in the lungs allowing more oxygen in!!!

And yes it can be addictive, simply because it is a pleasant experience, an addiction to marijuana shows signs of abuse and attatchment to the sensory pleasures.
It is not the herb to be blamed, it is not a toy, it is a sacramental tool to be used with discipline (Not too say I don't use it recreationally;))
The persons own perception is to blame, and ironically, the herb can potentially help with this too! :D

[paradise_1000]

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

:)

[clachan]

To clachan and others who say the weed has negative aspects, I will give you a quote from a wise man:

"The herb, reveal you to yourself" - Bob Marley.

This is not to say that the person who has a negative experience on pot is a "bad" person.
That is to say, it opens the mind in a manner that can be likened to a dam collapsing hehe.
Any reppressed thoughts and feelings over the years may come flooding fourth.

Also, as the herb opens chakras, you become far more sensitive to the energy of the surrounding environment, so if the energy perhaps has a negative tinge, you pick up on it and you may feel tense and uneasy.

Its almost like a catalyst, as in it makes everything "more".
You lazy and sit around smoking pot watchin tv?
Then weeds gonna make being lazy so much more enjoyable you gonna stay lazy lol.

How about if your an active person who enjoys a puff before taking your daily jog?
The weed can make the jog more fun and will not make you lazy!!
It even may boost stamina as cannabis smoke opens the alvioli in the lungs allowing more oxygen in!!!

And yes it can be addictive, simply because it is a pleasant experience, an addiction to marijuana shows signs of abuse and attatchment to the sensory pleasures.
It is not the herb to be blamed, it is not a toy, it is a sacramental tool to be used with discipline (Not too say I don't use it recreationally;))
The persons own perception is to blame, and ironically, the herb can potentially help with this too! :D

I didn,t have the problem of repressed thoughts coming out with pot,booze does that to me.Pot did make me lazy though,just different reactions.The addiction did effect me but not as much as others,as Ive mentioned before i have tried other drugs but they did not produce an addictive tendency.Coke didn,t bother me,if it was around then maybe,but i never cared if i ever saw it again.On many,many occasions i would visit pot smoking freinds and the smoking that went on was constant,I think thats what most pot smoking groups do,like drinkers.

[truedruid]

Truedruid
i have not read your post as iam no longer interested in your veiws
im sorry it has come to this,iwll only skip any further posts by yourself
can we leave it at that

I am not!

I don't post it for you to read you, I posted it for people who enjoy cannabis.

Paradise 1000, that is a great post, the problem with it is that the government had to twist it a round, because this proved that cannabis smokers compensated for the slow reaction time, and therefore making us safe drivers, they need to attack with a reaction test on a computer, I have smoked and driven for over 20yrs and never had an accident.

It's the same with most of the rat tests, they pump the rats with so much of the chemicals in cannabis something is bound to suffer.

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

[reversi]

How can there be Cannabis when there is no Spoon?

[charas]

It's the same with most of the rat tests, they pump the rats with so much of the chemicals in cannabis something is bound to suffer.



You probably know this but let me share this about the rat tests...
They are not even using cannabis!!

They are using Synthetic or chemically isolated THC.
THC is just one of the cannabinoids in cannabis, when you consider that herbal cannabis contains over 60 cannabinoids and hundreds of terpenes and other volotile oils which modify and "modulate" each other (chemically in relation to the human body, hence the myriad of different types of highs) you can see why these are not fair tests!

How can there be Cannabis when there is no Spoon?

Bit of a mind bender that, I would take a generalized guess and say that the cannabis plant has spirit whilst a spoon does not, although conscience permeates everything.
A plant could have a spirit form in another realm and the plant in this dimension could be physical manifestation/projection of that.

Also there may be no spoon but that does not mean that we cannot use it to eat soup :D

[dangermouse]

Marijuana Study Shows Brain Cancer Cells Eat Themselves


On Thursday, a study released by researchers at the Complutense University in Madrid describes how marijuana's active chemical, tetrahydrocannabinol, can aid anti-cancer therapies due to its ability to coax cancerous brain cells to self-digest.

The research involved stimulating cancer growth in mice and then injecting sites near the tumors with THC every day. An experimental trial involving two brain cancer patients were also analyzed by the researchers.

It studied how an aggressive brain tumor type was affected by THC, noting that the findings fell in line with the tests done on mice. They say the work shows how "a new family of potential antitumoral agent" exists among THC and related cannabinoids.


http://www.shortnews.com/start.cfm?id=78020
----

In other words the cancer cells get the munchies and eat themselves :D

[slodave]

They spray weak badly grown skunk with silicon or god knows what with an airbrush to get a Cristal effect to make it look like high grade. London and the south east of England is flooded with the shit :mad:
people just aint right these days! old school is dead.

[slodave]

I didn,t have the problem of repressed thoughts coming out with pot,booze does that to me.Pot did make me lazy though,just different reactions.The addiction did effect me but not as much as others,as Ive mentioned before i have tried other drugs but they did not produce an addictive tendency.Coke didn,t bother me,if it was around then maybe,but i never cared if i ever saw it again.On many,many occasions i would visit pot smoking freinds and the smoking that went on was constant,I think thats what most pot smoking groups do,like drinkers.
i think i'm allergic to pot. it makes me talk a whole lot of nonsense that makes sense, and i laugh alot too.

[octopusrex]

people just aint right these days! old school is dead.

Not as long as I live!!!!!

[drael]

Hello Dreal
I hope you are well and nice to meet you.


Hi :)

Do you use cannabis?


From time to time, socially. When I was younger I did the full gamet of drugs. I also occasionally smoke the legal blends, which while they have unknown health profile, tend to be very mild by comparison. I find this is less addictive. I have an addictive tendanncy. I guess if I could get low grade outdoors, or similar it would be the same, but its often that tastey indoor breed. Thats why I really only smoke pot socially, or occasionally, i dont wanna get carried away. I also drink from time to time. I smoke cigerrettes which i find very addictive, and wish i didnt. Sooner or later Ill give that up.

Regarding cannabis in its medicinal use i will elaberate on previous statements i have made. The medicinal properties of the drug are wonderfull and should be explored to the fullest.


Thats good. That IMO would be the biggest waste if because of drug users, or prohibition we missed out on improved wellbeing for humanity.

What are your veiws on 1.Cannabis and developing foetuses ?


Effects I beleive are unknown, but of course caution is warrented by things like foetal alcohol syndrome. Id say try and avoid it here.

2.Cannabis and opperating machinary including cars ?


Thats a hard one. Initially, say up to about 20 minutes after a strong smoke, on can be quite out of it, even paranoic, and fairly distracted. But as it tapers off, it becomes really quite mild, and possibly doesnt effect driving at all. Id certainly suggest not to hope in your car straight after a session. Facts are a little uncertain about this, but my experience would suggest as I said.

One of the truths about this drug is that it has negatives which the pro group refuse to acknowledge,is this called denial ? I dont care how many people claim cannabis isnot addictive,the fact is that these same people smoke every day and probably have done for years,some professionals use the phrase "habit".I call this prison "fort cannabis" and ihas many inmates.It would appear these addicts use the possitve attributes of the drug to justfy themseves.


It is part of a culture which struggles against myth on the other camp I think. When your young your taught a bunch of lies about drugs, then you try cannabis and it seems okay. Its as much a danger to overstate these things, which is part of what I think leads to this overemphasis on positive. True, daily smokers do tend to be in denial. Although to be completely honest here, the number of people that try cannabis versus those that do it regularly is something like 5%, as opposed to the staggering figures on alcohol or ciggerrettes (ciggs is something like 95%, alcohol is consumed weekly by something like 90% of the population).

I think this phase is something a large number of people grow out of. The majority of this small 5% give up, or cut back, around the age of 30, leaving only real munters behind. The all positive talk thing, or constant talk about drugs is also usually grown out of.

So considering this, its really not much of a prison. I think it of it as more like a temporary escapism. Pot smokers are often IMO sensitive, deep people, with a few emotional baggages.

If we are to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth then this reality must be addressed.Lets say for arguments sake that 10% of people who take up the passtime have trouble stopping and 5% become dependent for life,is it not worth bringing this to their attention?If you come back to me with the argument that 0% become habitual/addicted i will cease our debate as in my veiw it is obviously the case.Also if you bring any other drug into this i will remind you of the thread.


Well I have done that, but IMO in a reasonable manner. There are for certain some real risks with cannabis. It is sold along side other drugs, which can lead onto harder things. It is known to cause lung problems, not generally cancer, but infections and such with can be dangerous. It can lower sperm motility temporarily with chronic use. There may or may not be a similar mental health effect to that of alcohol consumption (or the mental health effects may be causing the abuse, or from some other place). It can be used for escape, and some people habituate and dont stop or cut back. Admitted those are mostly rather disturbed people, but its still there. Apparently chronic smoking of it can also badly effect the teeth.

I would say its safer than most other common drugs, but it has real risks, mainly habituation. Fortunately, most of these are neatly avoided by moderation, and perhaps a water-pipe or vapouriser.

I understand the desire to speak against those that think there is not side effects or risks.

The real question is, and no one has the answer for this definatively - do psychological problems and escapism lead to over use of pot, or vice versa. My experience with pot smokers suggests that it may be the former, and if you know someone whos a daily user, you may prefer to focus on underlying issues.

I once became freindly with a group of phylosephy students who came to blows over a bit of resin...madness.


Thats pretty extreme.

What do we advise our kids to do when faced with cannabis for the first time,tell them it fine,no probs get on with it son.


I would try to give my children the most balance informed facts possible about all drugs, and say they should wait till there 18. (It certainly can drain school work if they start earlier, and more likely to habituate IMO). Theres no point in simply warning people away though, theres no evidence that works, it may even encourage curiousity through the forbidden fruit effect. If you do simply warn away, id say keep it casual-ish, just in case this happens. I beleive strongly in harm minimisation from my drug experiences. Thats all about simply providing the unedited, unbiased facts. That way, you dont become irrelevant if they decide to do it, and you can also provide tips to staying safe, healthy and unaddicted.

Also we must mention the financial implications,there are some who would rather smoke than eat or keep warm,is this rational ?


Ive never seen this myself, if met some hardcore stoners and they still eat and turn on the heater. Still there can be some level of proritizing weed which, well is it rational? If you met someone you loved you might do something similar. I guess its not rational but its human.

To finish,this drug is illegal in most of Europe,this thead is not about that,apart from to say that you could end up in jail with a criminal record[TRUTH]. Has it not occured to the pro group that our government is controlled by the hidden hand and they want things the way they are for a purpose.Criminal record=career,travel problems ect.

Its only really the US you cant travel to with a pot conviction. Who even wants to go there? For most purposes, not considering dealing, pot convitions are very minor. There are many places where its not much of a big deal at all, such as amsterdam, spain, parts of australia (many more). I think they may be re-criminalising it in the UK, not sure.

More of an issue is career opportunities. Sure a small conviction in the past may not be an issue, but it can be for some jobs. People dont tent to think of this, and it can be quite a big deal.

Whats also a hassle about it being illegal, is the lengths people sometimes go through to get it. Thats addictive, waiting in some parking lot, or hassling your dealer. People would prolly do more to get booze or ciggerrettes but its still a bit sad.

[lewi]

i think i'm allergic to pot. it makes me talk a whole lot of nonsense that makes sense, and i laugh alot too.

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

[wez004]

More British hysteria about "skunk." What is it with this country? Skunk#1 rules! You guys think it is insane to roll a "joint" of "skunk" without diluting it with tobacco. Here in the states that's pretty much the only way we smoke it.

Jesus fucking Christ! Why do British people equate BREEDING to GENETIC MODIFICATION when it comes to Cannabis? You guys are being fed a major load of propaganda about "skunk." The worst part is a lot of people seem to believe it.

Well I don't think it's insane to roll a joint without tobbaco but I must admit I like a bit of tobbaco in a joint, not to much. It helps it burn and the tobbaco give the high a grounding effect. The two complement each other. I'll smoke pure weed in my little pipe or a bong.

Yes why the fuck do they keep calling hybridisation genetic modification???

[wez004]

But don't you realize that Cannabis Sativa and Cannabis Indica would not exist if it wasn't for intensive breeding of their ancestors?

Totally mate. Durban Poison the true breed from south africa looks more like an indica than a sativa with it's fat leaves and short size. Humans have totally jumped in on the evolution of cannabis by trading seeds all over the world over thousands of years.

There are Brits in the Riff this very moment who have persuades local farmers to grow a hybridised variety which will destroy the genetics of the indigenous plant buy way of airborne pollen for miles and miles.

[charas]

Totally mate. Durban Poison the true breed from south africa looks more like an indica than a sativa with it's fat leaves and short size. Humans have totally jumped in on the evolution of cannabis by trading seeds all over the world over thousands of years.

There are Brits in the Riff this very moment who have persuades local farmers to grow a hybridised variety which will destroy the genetics of the indigenous plant buy way of airborne pollen for miles and miles.

Indeed however the indiginous farmer who breeds cannabis outdoors in a big field is a world away from the western closet cultivators who grow small amounts of breeding stock inevitably leading to genetic bottleneck effect.
(think of the windsors hehe).

No this is not the same as "GM" of Monsanto.
But GM cannabis does exist. :eek:

[truedruid]

I like a bit of tobbaco in a joint, not to much. It helps it burn and the tobbaco give the high a grounding effect.
once you quit tobacco and smoke pure you begin to realise that the tobacco it's self has a high, but I don't like it at all. I found my vision goes slightly dark, I get a tingling around the mouth and cheeks and it knocks me out for an hour. I once took a neighbour to a NHS quit smoking clinc after a session on my pipe of my own home grown, They ask me if I smoked I said yes and they gave me a carbon monoxide test to show the damage I am doing. It came out negative, which left them very confused.

Cannabis verses tobacco = no carbon monoxide in cannabis, according to the NHS.

Now if I smoke a joint with tobacco it taste disgusting like drink sunny delight instead of pure orange juice (what ever happen to that shit the super markets used to have a whole isle full a few years ago.)

I have a de-verdamper vapouriser and the differnce between the high from that and my pipe, the vaporiser high is so much cleaner.

If you cure your cannabis it should burn just as good as tobacco if not better, the problem is dealers sell wet weed, to bump the weight, to get rid of it as fast as possible and to hide the fact they haven't flushed it properly. too much nitrogen in the bud will slow the burning to.

free the weed

[saicosis]

Druid man, is there not a stone circle near you where you can have some fun ?
She was given it at school by some kids apparently,got caught,gendermaire got involved,the shit hit the fan.
Out of my control really,luckilly she has 2 loving parents who can support her.
Maybe you can stop your pathetic efforts to wind meup now,you are making yourself look like an even bigger idiot than you already are,if that is possible and increasingly looking like a troll in "sheeps" cloving. LOL

Just want to say, based on your post, it isn't cannabis that ruined your daughter's life. It's the prohibition. If it weren't illegal then she would have just had a smoke with her friends at school and went on with her day I'd imagine, but as it is she was caught.

[clachan]

Thanks dreal,your response to my post was measured and logical.There are other issues that are relavent to this thread but may wonder a bit off course.One such issue is the use of cannabis and spirituality,in 1984 i had 2 very profound experiences,Im convinced it was to do with LSD and black morrocan resin which i had just started smoking,a possitve thing for me as those visions changed my perseption of the things forever.HOWEVER,I have noticed that these effects of those drugs are rare,many of the smokers i know are just dope heads,the same as they ever was but just stoned 24/7.From this i conclude that cannabis and mind expansion is a very questionable reason to use the drug.
The big problem for the pro campaign is the people who do become dependant,why......because some of these young abusers end up in psyciatric units and that says "mental health problems related to cannabis" and is astick to beat Dr Hemp with[sorry DH]
Saicosis,your right,but wrong too if that makes any sense.Cannabis is illegal,the reasons why are a different issue.Cannabis=criminal in the present politicl atmospere and thinking.After she got nicked that was the end of her education.....aged 15,now she is 24 with no prospects and i even have tears in my eyes as i type this.I will continue to help her all ican.When i was young i was told by people who ilooked up to that it was fine to smoke pot,so my liberal attitude helped with the moulding of her attitudes.
These yhings are why my advice to kids is "leave well alone, it aint worth it"

[truedruid]

When i was young i was told by people who ilooked up to that it was fine to smoke pot,And this was in a country where it is illegal, all anyone is asking for is the truth. "leave well alone, it aint worth it" And you think kids are going to listen, also many others would disagree. Do you honestly think your daughter would have come and ask you, I going to take an illegal drug tonight what do you think. The problem is cannabis is illegal and kids are scared to ask, especially with an attitude of I tried it for 13yrs and I say it ain't worth it or will you just LIE.

Saicosis,your right,but wrong too if that makes any sense.Cannabis is illegal,the reasons why are a different issue. NO thats what we are talking about, and that sort of 'we don't talk about that' attitude is what caused the whole problem in the first place back in 1928.

Cannabis=criminal in the present politicl atmospere and thinking And that's what wrecked your daughters life not the cannabis, and now you're blaming yourself and crying, so even you are still affected by the illegality of cannabis.
so my liberal attitude helped with the moulding of her attitudes. At least it was a dominating attitude.

One such issue is the use of cannabis and spirituality,in 1984 i had 2 very profound experiences,Im convinced it was to do with LSD and black morrocan resin which i had just started smoking,a possitve thing for me as those visions changed my perseption of the things forever.HOWEVER,I have noticed that these effects of those drugs are rare,many of the smokers i know are just dope heads,the same as they ever was but just stoned 24/7.From this i conclude that cannabis and mind expansion is a very questionable reason to use the drug. Just as I thought you want the experience for yourself and no-one else, it's rare because most of the time people are smoking crap and there arn't any teachers (shaman). Yet again another call for legalisation. not only of cannabis but LSD.

[clachan]

Lsd?????????????????

[charas]

I personally like to mix a small bit of natural tobacco in a joint,
kind of rounds out the flavour and gives the smoke that "bite" as the pure herb is very smooth and you can hardly feel it in your lungs if you know what I mean.
The tobacco does have its own high but I only feel it for 2 - 5 mins then it tapers off and the weed takes over.

Also I may have mentioned this but tobacco CONSTRICTS the alvioli in the lungs whilst cannabis OPENS them, which makes them perfect partners if ya' ask me. :)

[clachan]

Druid I think clachan wants to play fisticuffs :D

I personally like to mix a small bit of natural tobacco in a joint,
kind of rounds out the flavour and gives the smoke that "bite" as the pure herb is very smooth and you can hardly feel it in your lungs if you know what I mean.
The tobacco does have its own high but I only feel it for 2 - 5 mins then it tapers off and the weed takes over.

Also I may have mentioned this but tobacco CONSTRICTS the alvioli in the lungs whilst cannabis OPENS them, which makes them perfect partners if ya' ask me. :)
No charas,thats the point i dont,i just wish he would vent his hatred on another victim,it is boring!!

[drhemp]

Please can we keep to the debate in the interesting thread rather than getting too personal, and that includes you stoners too! :D

[slodave]

Not as long as I live!!!!!
correction: the old school is dying. thanks to the controllers of our economy. people are becoming strange, especially the younger generations.

[octopusrex]

correction: the old school is dying. thanks to the controllers of our economy. people are becoming strange, especially the younger generations.

Dying yes.. Dead NO.

Here's the point: I grew up thinking liberty means sex, drugs and rock'n roll.

I grew up believing that love was free.

I grew up thinking that mescaline, magic mushrooms.. LSD and weed would open EVERYBODY's minds to... whatever is there...

Then... Narco-Wars came around. Courtesy of the best LSD in town: the CIA.

BUT FUCK ALL THOSE MOTHERFUCKERS! I'M ALIVE! I'M FREE!!!!

And as DI would say: I am ME!

Here's the point:

John Lennon said: All you need is love. He asked us to "imagine" and whatever we couldn't change, he asked us to let it be.

Jimmy asked us if we are experienced!

Janis... Dear, good old Janis... Wore her ball and chain.

[truedruid]

http://scienceblogs.com/scientificactivist/upload/2006/08/drug%20study%20bbc.gif

I thought I grew up free and that my grandfather fought a war to make it so.

I thought I grew up in a logical world.

But we didn't, we are only lead to believe that to make us fight to keep the powers to be to be in power.

[charas]

http://scienceblogs.com/scientificactivist/upload/2006/08/drug%20study%20bbc.gif

I thought I grew up free and that my grandfather fought a war to make it so.

I thought I grew up in a logical world.

But we didn't, we are only lead to believe that to make us fight to keep the powers to be to be in power.

Whatis the graph, representing the "logical" that we are led to believe?
Because it is total bullshit, saying solvents are less harmful that is a joke, solvents are some the worst, harshest chemicals it is genocide for brain cells!

[charas]

In fact there are 3 "drugs on the graph which are different from the others, can anyone tell me what they are? :cool:

[truedruid]

Whatis the graph, representing the "logical" that we are led to believe?
Because it is total bullshit, saying solvents are less harmful that is a joke, solvents are some the worst, harshest chemicals it is genocide for brain cells!
Well I would have to agree with you. but they would mean the average worker would realise they are distroying their brain cells, most people use solvents.
But it was the point that the government don't even listen to the medical council that they appointed.

They're not going to listen to any Cannabis campaign.

[drhemp]

Well I would have to agree with you. but they would mean the average worker would realise they are distroying their brain cells, most people use solvents.
But it was the point that the government don't even listen to the medical council that they appointed.

They're not going to listen to any Cannabis campaign.

That's right, our Government will never ever listen to the legalise cannabis campaign, because their puppet masters have a vested interest in the highly profitable illegal drugs trade, which they do not wish to see legalised.

[clachan]

Im only saying one of the truths about cannabis is that it IS illegal,rightly or wrongly its the truth,and untill that changes you could end up with a criminal record which has repercusions.
Its people worse than me you,ll face in any attempt to legalise it,and as was just mentioned the government dont have much say in it.
If i can make you lose you head in a row then what can "professional arguer" do?
Lose ya head you,ve lost the battle.

[lewi]

Raid on £500,000 cannabis factory

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/8036744.stm

Police in Greater Manchester discovered £530,000 of cannabis during a drugs raid in Farnworth.

Why are we not using the money this plant can produce to good use instead of allowing criminals earning 100's of thousands of pounds of a few plants :confused:

[whiterain]

Im only saying one of the truths about cannabis is that it IS illegal,rightly or wrongly its the truth,and untill that changes you could end up with a criminal record which has repercusions.
Its people worse than me you,ll face in any attempt to legalise it,and as was just mentioned the government dont have much say in it.
If i can make you lose you head in a row then what can "professional arguer" do?
Lose ya head you,ve lost the battle.

feed your head and youve won the war ;)

[clachan]

feed your head and youve won the war ;)

For sure!

[slodave]

Dying yes.. Dead NO.

Here's the point: I grew up thinking liberty means sex, drugs and rock'n roll.

I grew up believing that love was free.

I grew up thinking that mescaline, magic mushrooms.. LSD and weed would open EVERYBODY's minds to... whatever is there...

Then... Narco-Wars came around. Courtesy of the best LSD in town: the CIA.

BUT FUCK ALL THOSE MOTHERFUCKERS! I'M ALIVE! I'M FREE!!!!

And as DI would say: I am ME!

Here's the point:

John Lennon said: All you need is love. He asked us to "imagine" and whatever we couldn't change, he asked us to let it be.

Jimmy asked us if we are experienced!

Janis... Dear, good old Janis... Wore her ball and chain.
you have got to be close to my age if you remember all that as it happend. all about old school, and better days, all good, the flow was all positive. i was 16 in 69, in southern california, my first joint was vietnamese. as the military returned to long beach harbor, nobody was searched, and tons came in daily. dynamite weed, hash, mescaline, cheap!perscription sandoz L.S.D.-25 from switzerland, was everywhere for a dollar.i was too young to know what a hippie was but i knew all about free love, sex drugs, rock & roll. live music at least once a week doors, zepplin, jeff beck, pink floyd, hendrix, santana, the who, frank zappa, clapton, etc...got high with eric burdon behind the night club before a show, and also buddy miles. met timothy leary. his orange sunshine cost 20 cents if you bought a hundred. those were the best days of my life and i didn't even know it. kids today dont have a clue. what happend ?????what is this world coming to? i still have the old music, but the good times arent there anymore. times are changing, and it dont look good. i haven't changed, but i feel like a relic, and quite alone. talkin bout my generation, hope i die before i get old. and there i was in a long field of tall grass.

[slodave]

Yes you give yet more arguments to end prohibition.

It's not true to say it's all much stronger, yes there are some stronger strains around, but you tend to use yes, and yes some unscrupulous criminals add all sorts of crap, but not all. The strong cannabis myth has been created in recent years as a feeble attempt by our Government to end the tide towards legalisation.

Of course, if you are worried about what might have been added, then the home gardening route would be the best, but the Nazis would have you imprisoned for growing your own, instead of funding the criminal black market (makes you wonder who they are really interested in protecting - wakey wakey please!)

Once again, if you have not listened to Ed Stratton who is a medicinal marijuana user that has refused a police caution for growing his own medication to alleviate his suffering and is seeking a Judicial Review of the Government's classification of cannabis, arguing they are incompatible with the European Human Rights Act and also the Misuse of Drug Act itself, which was originally legislated to protect public health.

You can listen to Ed's interview by clicking on player on the front of the drug equality web site - www.drugequality.org
we have medical marijuana here in california:--- find the right doctor, pay $100 a year, go to the marijuana pharmacy. pick what you want up to a pound, legally, priced according to quality, or grow your own, up to a pound max either way or in combination. card expires in a year, then back to doc, pay your hundred...

[sphelix]

we have medical marijuana here in california:--- find the right doctor, pay $100 a year, go to the marijuana pharmacy. pick what you want up to a pound, legally, priced according to quality, or grow your own, up to a pound max either way or in combination. card expires in a year, then back to doc, pay your hundred...

sweet sweet green grass i call home..:p

[slodave]

not an addiction, a way of life.

[bulgariaole]

man i love my ganja i just baught over a quarter of good stuff for 40$, the guy who sold it to me was carhopping and dosnt know that it really costs around 160$, haha i got lucky and am about to smoke a bowl here in a sec

The more people smoke the herb, the more bablylon fall- Marley

ahh sweet ganja

[bulgariaole]

man i wish i lived my teens in the hippie era instead of now facing apocaliptic times

[clachan]

I think its worth mentioning that one problem i had with cannabis was how it was purchased.If you want a beer you can buy A beer.If you want a joint you would normally have to by say a Quarter.For me that meant smoking every night for 2 weeks which in turn meant thr roll on effect.
Lifes a bitch!!

[charas]

Clachan, good friend... what are you talking about!? lol

Gimme the sweet sweet sensi!

Light up the chalice mek we burn down rooome (vatican)

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

[clachan]

Clachan, good friend... what are you talking about!? lol

Gimme the sweet sweet sensi!

Light up the chalice mek we burn down rooome (vatican)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKwugZnUXlw

I re-read my post and "think" it makes sense,I,ll just go over it one more time.

[drhemp]

I think what Clachan was saying was back when he was smoking pot, he had to buy it in large quantities, like 7.5g (quarter) which then meant he had more than he needed and would be smoking it for 2 weeks.

Of course, in The Netherlands, you buy cannabis from licensed coffeeshops where they sell it by the gram, so if you don't want to have too much, you can just buy a little amount. In fact, they're not supposed to sell you more than 5g and some of the coffeeshops, particularly in the tourist areas, do enforce this (especially if you are no Dutch).

[truedruid]

Don't forget not know what you are going to purchase, and hunting around for a new source, wasting hours for dealers who were wanting on dealers, and not forgetting driving for 26 miles for a 16th

[Mo0n5tar]

http://www.protestlondon.co.uk/

[truedruid]

http://www.protestlondon.co.uk/

I am all for supporting pinky, but this petitioning thing has been going on for 40yrs and the government are just ignoring the public. pinky had to pay to protest it cost over 4 thousand and Gordon Brown just drives past laughing. the whole of the cannabis community needs to stand together

[charas]

Don't forget not know what you are going to purchase, and hunting around for a new source, wasting hours for dealers who were wanting on dealers, and not forgetting driving for 26 miles for a 16th

Sigh it's true, man it would be sweet just having 1 coffeeshop in my city, just 1!!!

[Mo0n5tar]

Yes i totally agree Druid, noone in politics has any interest in legalising it an uphill climb all the way it seems.

[slodave]

Sigh it's true, man it would be sweet just having 1 coffeeshop in my city, just 1!!!
there are no public establishments where using pot is allowed here in california, in fact tobacco use is banned in public buildings also, such as bars, restraunts, stores, etc.. but is still allowed in casinos. but... if you have a medical use card here you can legally posess, grow, and use marijuana in the privacy of your own home. so come on down, and the weather's great, and the music's great too. only one thing. the economy sucks, and the cops are assholes, but i guess you cant have everything. but, bottom line, if you pay the price, cannabis is legal here. no coffee shops unless you mean to drink coffee. it is deemed medical, not social as in amsterdam so i dont see public use happening in the near future, but we are making headway, dont you think??? california be smokin!!!

[slodave]

That's right, our Government will never ever listen to the legalise cannabis campaign, because their puppet masters have a vested interest in the highly profitable illegal drugs trade, which they do not wish to see legalised.
in california, there are lots of other sources of income for them that they pretty much leave pot alone. for example, the meth. coming out of mexico is a major concern and a big money maker. the courts are extremely conjested with the issue and our puppett masters are benefitting and pre-occupied. no time for the weed.

[lewi]

I would take Cannabis over any of them legal high's out there anyday :eek:

[truedruid]

from Drug War Chronicle, Issue #592, 7/3/09

Marijuana Legalization Legislation in the Works in Portugal

Portugal has been the subject of a lot of attention lately over its decriminalization of drug possession. Although decriminalization has been in place for eight years now, it is only this year that it has caught the world's attention. The success of Portugal's approach was the subject of a piece by Salon writer Glenn Greenwald commissioned by the Cato Institute that was widely read and commented on earlier this year, and last week it earned kind words from a most unexpected place: the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC), which could find little to complain about for its 2009 World Drugs Report.

http://stopthedrugwar.org/files/portugalmap.gif
But Portugal isn't resting on its laurels, and at least one political party there is preparing to take the country's progressive approach to drug reform to the next level. The Leftist Bloc (Bloco de Esquerda) is preparing legislation that would legalize the possession, cultivation, and retail sales of small amounts of marijuana, as well as providing for regulated wholesale cultivation to supply the retail market.

The Bloc is also now actively encouraging the participation of ENCOD, the European Coalition for Just and Effective Drug Policies, in developing new drug laws. The alliance comes too late to influence the marijuana bill, but will provide an entree for drug reformers in the process in future drug legislation, or even revising the current marijuana bill if it does not make in through parliament this year.

"The contacts between ENCOD and the Bloc were arranged by common activists and members," explained ENCOD steering committee member and Portuguese law student, journalist, and activist Jorge Roque.

Under the draft bill, a copy of which was made available to the Chronicle, marijuana consumers could purchase "the amount needed for the average individual for a 30-day period," as determined by the existing decriminalization law, or 15 grams of hashish and 75 grams (almost three ounces) of marijuana. The average daily dose is a half-gram of hash and 2.5 grams of pot. Individuals would be allowed to grow up to 10 plants, and could possess the 30-day amount as well as up to 10 plants.

The draft bill calls for licensed retail sales outlets authorized by municipal councils. Such retail establishments would not be allowed to sell alcohol or allow it to be consumed on the premises, would not be allowed within 500 meters of schools, and would not be allowed to have gambling machines. No one under 16 would be allowed to enter, nor would people adjudged to be mentally ill.

The draft bill prohibits advertising, but requires that packaging for marijuana products intended for retail sale clearly reveal the source, the amount, and a statement giving the World Health Organization's position on the effects and risks of consumption.

The bill also provides for the Portuguese National Institute of Pharmacy and Medicine to license the wholesale cultivation of marijuana to supply the retail trade. And it provides for an excise tax on cannabis sales to be determined during the budgetary process.

People who traffic in marijuana outside the parameters set down in the draft would face four to 12 years in prison for serious offenses, and up to four years for less serious offenses. Licensed retailers or wholesalers who breach the regulations could face imprisonment for up to three months or a fine of up to 30 days' minimum wage.

The bill's immediate prospects are uncertain. The Leftist Bloc is a small party, holding only eight seats in the 230-seat parliament. But the government is controlled by left-leaning parties, and the Bloc has a reputation as a "hip" party in the vanguard of political change in the country.

"Honestly, at first I thought this would never pass, but with time and after discussing this with the deputies, I am much more optimistic," said Roque. "Of course, the Left Bloc alone cannot get it passed, but as usual, they provoke the debate of ideas, and then, since they are seen as an intelligent and humane group, they can pick up support among other political parties."

While it is too late for ENCOD to influence this legislation, the group can still play a role in the debate, said ENCOD coordinator Joep Oomen. "ENCOD could contribute with information on the need to make consistent moves and no half-measures, as has been the case before with the decriminalization of possession. Portugal should learn from the experiences in the Netherlands. Here liberal cannabis policies that have proven successful during more than 30 years are now in danger of being abolished because of the pressure of Christian parties who continue blaming these policies for problems that in fact are caused by prohibition," he said.

Oomen was alluding to Holland's "backdoor problem," where the sale of marijuana is tolerated, but there is no provision for legally supplying Dutch cannabis cafes. That has led to the growth of organized crime participation in the pot business in Holland.

"It is quite simple," Oomen said. "When you allow people to use, you should allow them to possess, and if you allow them to possess, you should allow them to cultivate, produce, buy or sell. If you only go halfway, and refuse to regulate the first necessary element in the process (cultivation or production) you create more problems than solutions."

For Roque, Portugal's experience with decriminalization was critical in laying the groundwork for the legalization bill. "Decriminalization helped us lose the taboos and break the fear of being persecuted for drugs, and Portugal nowadays is much more ready to move forward," said Roque.

One big remaining taboo is the UN drug conventions, but neither Oomen nor Roque appeared to be very concerned about them. "Portugal does not need to openly challenge the UN conventions," said Oomen. "As long as the new bill is aiming at regulating cultivation of cannabis for personal use, it cannot be considered as a violation of international conventions, which leave it up to national authorities to deal with the status of drug use."

Roque was a bit more combative. "The international conventions and the Lisbon treaty don't provide solutions in these matters, and the UN conventions were ratified by the specific will of one country," said Roque. "When the UN conventions don't present any solutions that are good for the national interest, only a stupid country will follow them forever."

Now, Portugal can put the conventions and their interpretation to the test, if its parliament so chooses.

[octopusrex]

Nation of Mary Jane?

[slodave]

I would take Cannabis over any of them legal high's out there anyday :eek:

if you were a navajo indian in the southwestern united states, and a church-member, for you, peyote would be legal. they're allowed to carry 2 ounces. they buy it, or mail order from 1 of 2 legal farms close to the mexican border. for more info. go to the peyote foundation website. outsiders have been known to join their church. they have alot of truth. its all about self-realization, life, the universe, and everything, minus the bullshit. a legal high to beat them all, and the answer to all the worlds problems, and negativity. one session will set you free...uh oh, apologies, this thread is about cannabis, not mescaline. oops.

[ormy]

So, Ive been reading this thread and thinking to myself, does everyone who smokes cannabis get such a favourable reaction? Y'know, warm glowy feeling etc? Even the detractors on here have smoked a bit and their beef doesn't seem to be with the way it made/makes them feel.

From my admittedly fairly limited and sporadic experience it made me nothing but horribly paranoid. Cold sweats, unable to sleep, racing uncomfortable looping thoughts etc.

Am I doing something wrong? Or is it just that some people are not suited to it beacuse their brains are too fucked up or something:confused:

[slodave]

So, Ive been reading this thread and thinking to myself, does everyone who smokes cannabis get such a favourable reaction? Y'know, warm glowy feeling etc? Even the detractors on here have smoked a bit and their beef doesn't seem to be with the way it made/makes them feel.

From my admittedly fairly limited and sporadic experience it made me nothing but horribly paranoid. Cold sweats, unable to sleep, racing uncomfortable looping thoughts etc.

Am I doing something wrong? Or is it just that some people are not suited to it beacuse their brains are too fucked up or something:confused:
i think i'm allergic...it makes me laugh too much and i cant stop smiling, and it causes me to talk and think uncontrollable utter nonsense, which causes more laughter. and whats worse; i think it could be contageous. its got to be an allergic reaction. whats a poor 56 yr. old white boy to do??? any suggestions?

[tien an]

i think i'm allergic...it makes me laugh too much and i cant stop smiling, and it causes me to talk and think uncontrollable utter nonsense, which causes more laughter. and whats worse; i think it could be contageous. its got to be an allergic reaction. whats a poor 56 yr. old white boy to do??? any suggestions?

You seem to be doing everything right! I'd have another one!

[truedruid]

From my admittedly fairly limited and sporadic experience it made me nothing but horribly paranoid. Cold sweats, unable to sleep, racing uncomfortable looping thoughts etc.

Am I doing something wrong?
It could be the way it was grown, if you haven't smoked much before and the cannabis was high in THC and low in CBD, you may have become slightly psyhcotic. The CBD is an antipsyhcotic. This is why we are crying out for legalisation, growing in a cupboard is not ideal it needs to be grown in the sun and in soil. If the cannabis was grown with dodgy nutrients and not flushed correctly you are also smoking chemicals.

If you really want to smoke the best idea is to visit amsterdam and tell them you want to smoke something with a low THC content, but don't bother asking in britain to just get cannabis of a decent quality is hard enough.

It also comes down to your frame of mind at the time of smoking. And sometimes some people just don't like the effects.

[ormy]

i think i'm allergic...it makes me laugh too much and i cant stop smiling, and it causes me to talk and think uncontrollable utter nonsense, which causes more laughter. and whats worse; i think it could be contageous. its got to be an allergic reaction. whats a poor 56 yr. old white boy to do??? any suggestions?

I'm happy for you Slodave. I just wish I could get some of that action.

[ormy]

It could be the way it was grown, if you haven't smoked much before and the cannabis was high in THC and low in CBD, you may have become slightly psyhcotic. The CBD is an antipsyhcotic. This is why we are crying out for legalisation, growing in a cupboard is not ideal it needs to be grown in the sun and in soil. If the cannabis was grown with dodgy nutrients and not flushed correctly you are also smoking chemicals.

If you really want to smoke the best idea is to visit amsterdam and tell them you want to smoke something with a low THC content, but don't bother asking in britain to just get cannabis of a decent quality is hard enough.

It also comes down to your frame of mind at the time of smoking. And sometimes some people just don't like the effects.

OK, this is what I wanted to hear. I was wondering if I my brain was the wrong type but it seems like you are saying its the quality of UK cannabis that's the problem. Cheers.:)

[truedruid]

I was wondering if I my brain was the wrong type
Everyone has the right brain for cannabis, we have THC receptors that accept the THC, also the human body naturally produces THC. Unlike alcohol which is in fact a poison and the body needs to build a tolerance to it. Many years ago, before sugar beer was only 1% alcohol and the hops were used to filter water. Over the years we have adapted to allow us to consume it. The orientals used tea to filter the water and therefore they do not have this immunity and go red in the face. I have known a few people unable to drink. But cannabis is different and it is usally a bad experience that stops people from smoking, main they got paranoid, which is understandable if they are doing something against the law.

UK cannabis is in its infancy and therefore most people are just learning to grow, and do not understand that it is very important to grow organically. Digesting cannabis is fine the stomach rejects any bad chemicals, but with smoking the lung can not reject the chemicals and they are therefore consumed. If the growers are growing on a large scale they will not flush out the chemical at the last two weeks of flowering, they will not dry it either so it is hard to tell if it has.

When it is legalised most will grow in a green house in soil with organic nutrients, do a complete flush removing all the unwanted chemicals, dry it out correctly and cure it correctly. the curing allows the cannabinoids to raise and the THC levels to lower.

The problem is that prohibition is causing poor cultivation of cannabis, which inturn can make some go psychotic when smoked, then the government blames the cannabis. but they have already said it is the new manufacture of cannabis which is different from the sixties. which proves prohibitioj is actually causing mental illness.

[charas]

It could be the way it was grown, if you haven't smoked much before and the cannabis was high in THC and low in CBD, you may have become slightly psyhcotic. The CBD is an antipsyhcotic. This is why we are crying out for legalisation, growing in a cupboard is not ideal it needs to be grown in the sun and in soil. If the cannabis was grown with dodgy nutrients and not flushed correctly you are also smoking chemicals.

If you really want to smoke the best idea is to visit amsterdam and tell them you want to smoke something with a low THC content, but don't bother asking in britain to just get cannabis of a decent quality is hard enough.

It also comes down to your frame of mind at the time of smoking. And sometimes some people just don't like the effects.

YES, exactly.
In Britain you can sometimes get good morroccan hash (not soapbar) that is nice and mellow. And the higher quality thai weed (is rare unless you know the right people) has an uplifting happy high.

The other option, "skunk", is grown in the way druid was describing, totally unnaturally under lights and in chemicals hydroponically.
Try a soil grown tomatoe next to a hydroponic one.
The soil grown tomatoes always taste much better and have a fuller array of nutrients.
This is true with all plants and when it comes to a powerful plant like canabis, it becomes even more important.

I have smoked outdoor organic cannabis that is so spiritual you will not believe, the likes of Ethiopian ganja and it is so strong you can forget your name if you over indulge! :D

[supertzar]

Skunk is just as easy to grow with organics as with chemicals. You can grow it in soil under lights, too. Or outdoors if weather permits. Don't demonize Skunk #1 and related strains because Brits don't know how to grow high quality organic bud.

[octopusrex]

Mowie WOW...ie.

[lewi]

if you were a navajo indian in the southwestern united states, and a church-member, for you, peyote would be legal. they're allowed to carry 2 ounces. they buy it, or mail order from 1 of 2 legal farms close to the mexican border. for more info. go to the peyote foundation website. outsiders have been known to join their church. they have alot of truth. its all about self-realization, life, the universe, and everything, minus the bullshit. a legal high to beat them all, and the answer to all the worlds problems, and negativity. one session will set you free...uh oh, apologies, this thread is about cannabis, not mescaline. oops.
Thanks i will give it a smoke if i can get hold of any :)

[lewi]

From my admittedly fairly limited and sporadic experience it made me nothing but horribly paranoid. Cold sweats, unable to sleep, racing uncomfortable looping thoughts etc.

Am I doing something wrong? Or is it just that some people are not suited to it beacuse their brains are too fucked up or something:confused:
Sounds to me like you are smoking far too much in one go try smoking small amounts threw a pipe or bong make sure you drink plenty of water and dont burn it for too long as you will inhale the gas an heat from the lighter that can cause the symptoms your describing if that fails try eating it that works a treat also being paranoid can come from knowing your doing something illegal and may get found out if your in the UK if thats the case then take holidays to places that tolerate other people's free will smoke safe :)

[slodave]

Mowie WOW...ie.
you mean Maui Wowie? hawaiian? small buds, dark green, red hair, strong but smooth.

[slodave]

Thanks i will give it a smoke if i can get hold of any :)
smoking is just one way. back in the old west days, the indian medicine man would batch different mixtures to suit the occasion using peyote, cannabis, gypsum weed (loco weed), tobacco, also horse, buffalo, and coyote dung, grasses, and god knows what else. they smoked different mixtures before war, hunting, trading, weddings, games, meditation, etc.. peyote can be dried and smoked, drank as a tea, cleaned and eaten raw(its very bitter), and can be a very intense, but extremely enlightening, and far superior to shrooms and L.S.D. It, to me is compairable to a mega-dose of good pure acid. for more info. try the peyote foundation website

[charas]

Skunk is just as easy to grow with organics as with chemicals. You can grow it in soil under lights, too. Or outdoors if weather permits. Don't demonize Skunk #1 and related strains because Brits don't know how to grow high quality organic bud.

Ye when I say say skunk I dont mean the strain so much as the grow environment. Although environment and genetics are synonomous (as in, over generations plants adapt to an environment.)

As far as I know skunk #1 is a cross of afghan mexican and columbian, all lovely spiritual cannabis. :D

[charas]

smoking is just one way. back in the old west days, the indian medicine man would batch different mixtures to suit the occasion using peyote, cannabis, gypsum weed (loco weed), tobacco, also horse, buffalo, and coyote dung, grasses, and god knows what else. they smoked different mixtures before war, hunting, trading, weddings, games, meditation, etc.. peyote can be dried and smoked, drank as a tea, cleaned and eaten raw(its very bitter), and can be a very intense, but extremely enlightening, and far superior to shrooms and L.S.D. It, to me is compairable to a mega-dose of good pure acid. for more info. try the peyote foundation website

Can you compare peyote to magic mushrooms and cannabis if you can?

[grandsecretary]

Your lungs were designed to process Oxygen, and anything else is unhealthy. I say no more. If you want to kill yourselves, then that is your business as far as I am concerned.

Before you ask, I do not smoke tobacco, or drink more than a glass of wine or maybe two with my dinner, and I shop every day for fresh healthy food.

I recommend it, because at the age of 61, I feel great!

However, I am hugely in favour of random breath testing, and would arrest and jail anybody who drinks and drives a motor car, or smokes Cannabis, or any other psychotic drug, and drives.

Damage your own body, it belongs to you, but not other peoples when you are suffering from reduced drug induced reaction times and thought processes, and then drive motor cars.

It takes approximately 12 days for the effects of Marijuana to wear off. So when you smoke marijuana you should not drive for 13 days thereafter.

[humito]

Everyone has the right brain for cannabis, we have THC receptors that accept the THC, also the human body naturally produces THC. Unlike alcohol which is in fact a poison and the body needs to build a tolerance to it. Many years ago, before sugar beer was only 1% alcohol and the hops were used to filter water. Over the years we have adapted to allow us to consume it. The orientals used tea to filter the water and therefore they do not have this immunity and go red in the face. I have known a few people unable to drink. But cannabis is different and it is usally a bad experience that stops people from smoking, main they got paranoid, which is understandable if they are doing something against the law.

UK cannabis is in its infancy and therefore most people are just learning to grow, and do not understand that it is very important to grow organically. Digesting cannabis is fine the stomach rejects any bad chemicals, but with smoking the lung can not reject the chemicals and they are therefore consumed. If the growers are growing on a large scale they will not flush out the chemical at the last two weeks of flowering, they will not dry it either so it is hard to tell if it has.

When it is legalised most will grow in a green house in soil with organic nutrients, do a complete flush removing all the unwanted chemicals, dry it out correctly and cure it correctly. the curing allows the cannabinoids to raise and the THC levels to lower.

The problem is that prohibition is causing poor cultivation of cannabis, which inturn can make some go psychotic when smoked, then the government blames the cannabis. but they have already said it is the new manufacture of cannabis which is different from the sixties. which proves prohibitioj is actually causing mental illness.

this is very true, soil grown cannabis tastes better and leaves no hangover............the muscle relaxing properties of cannabis also helps while perfoming yoga, it is a fantastic anti depressant and meditation aid etc etc etc.
However constant use and abuse is a bad thing especially when taken with alchohol.
Respect it and use it in the proper context and you will experience all of its positive qualities.

[supertzar]

Ye when I say say skunk I dont mean the strain so much as the grow environment. Although environment and genetics are synonomous (as in, over generations plants adapt to an environment.)

As far as I know skunk #1 is a cross of afghan mexican and columbian, all lovely spiritual cannabis. :D

Not true. Seeds from bud grown with chemicals will have the same genetics as seeds from buds grown with organics. You must be thinking of Natural Selection. That does not apply to indoor bud where the breeding parents are selected by humans.

[humito]

Your lungs were designed to process Oxygen, and anything else is unhealthy. I say no more. If you want to kill yourselves, then that is your business as far as I am concerned.

Before you ask, I do not smoke tobacco, or drink more than a glass of wine or maybe two with my dinner, and I shop every day for fresh healthy food.

I recommend it, because at the age of 61, I feel great!

However, I am hugely in favour of random breath testing, and would arrest and jail anybody who drinks and drives a motor car, or smokes Cannabis, or any other psychotic drug, and drives.

Damage your own body, it belongs to you, but not other peoples when you are suffering from reduced drug induced reaction times and thought processes, and then drive motor cars.

It takes approximately 12 days for the effects of Marijuana to wear off. So when you smoke marijuana you should not drive for 13 days thereafter.

LOL........fair enough about the drink / drug driving angle.................however how about all the poisons belched into everybodies air by your motorcar? I am sure the effects of being forced to breathe in exhaust emissions are far worse for the body and brain than having the odd spliff..........humans are also not the only species that seek out non nutritional substances to experience an alteration in conciousness,so it must be natural for humans to want to do this..............you come across as a facist........how about the slowed reaction times and failing eyesight of the over sixties ,like yourself............?? put all them in jail too incase they cause an accident?:)

[whiterain]

Your lungs were designed to process Oxygen, and anything else is unhealthy. I say no more. If you want to kill yourselves, then that is your business as far as I am concerned.

Before you ask, I do not smoke tobacco, or drink more than a glass of wine or maybe two with my dinner, and I shop every day for fresh healthy food.

I recommend it, because at the age of 61, I feel great!

However, I am hugely in favour of random breath testing, and would arrest and jail anybody who drinks and drives a motor car, or smokes Cannabis, or any other psychotic drug, and drives.

Damage your own body, it belongs to you, but not other peoples when you are suffering from reduced drug induced reaction times and thought processes, and then drive motor cars.

It takes approximately 12 days for the effects of Marijuana to wear off. So when you smoke marijuana you should not drive for 13 days thereafter.

psychotic drug... 12 days... your posts get more and more clueless. let me guess how many times you have tried cannabis gs. talking about something you know fck all about isnt very smart

[truedruid]

grandsecretary,
Your lungs were designed to process Oxygen, and anything else is unhealthy. cannabis vapour enlarges the bronchial tubes allowing easrier breathing, if your statement was true this wouldn't happen.

The human body wasn't designed to go over running speed, is it unhealthy to go over running speed.

However, I am hugely in favour of random breath testing, and would arrest and jail anybody who drinks and drives a motor car, or smokes Cannabis, or any other psychotic drug, and drives. I don't like driving and wish i didn't have to, but if I didn't I would be stepped upon by people like yourself, I feel I am forced to drive to survive, to not have a drivers licence is something we are programmed to look down on. Maybe Public houses shouldn't have carparks, and cars not have cigarette lighters.

I recommend it, because at the age of 61, I feel great! from your photo you seem to be wearing glasses, so you can't be that healthy, the eyes wern't designed to have glasses put in front of them, are you sure you have full vision do you think you should drive, now be honest we are talking about lives here and not the law.

I have never had an accident, so why should I not use cannabis and drive. What medication do you use?

[charas]

Not true. Seeds from bud grown with chemicals will have the same genetics as seeds from buds grown with organics. You must be thinking of Natural Selection. That does not apply to indoor bud where the breeding parents are selected by humans.

I have to disagree with you on this fine point sir :).
I have experienced this for myself and done tests.
Plants that have been inbred for 3 or more generations indoors will act differently when placed back outside.

They will not be as hardy, and will not respond to the suns natural photoperiod (as you know cannabis begins flowering when the nights get longer) so they will take longer to start flowering.
There is an explanation for this - when the previous generations were grown indoors they were subjected to an instant 12/12 lighting regime for flowering (from 16 light / 8 dark for veg usually)
However in nature the days gradually get shorter.
So the indoor plants become less sensitive to the shortening days.

Also its not just the soil and nutrients that make the difference - it is the full spectrum rays of the sun.

[supertzar]

I have to disagree with you on this fine point sir .
I have experienced this for myself and done tests.
Plants that have been inbred for 3 or more generations indoors will act differently when placed back outside.

They will not be as hardy, and will not respond to the suns natural photoperiod (as you know cannabis begins flowering when the nights get longer) so they will take longer to start flowering.
There is an explanation for this - when the previous generations were grown indoors they were subjected to an instant 12/12 lighting regime for flowering (from 16 light / 8 dark for veg usually)
However in nature the days gradually get shorter.
So the indoor plants become less sensitive to the shortening days.

Also its not just the soil and nutrients that make the difference - it is the full spectrum rays of the sun.

I guarantee that is incorrect, charas. You may have done some indoor breeding that resulted in undesirable traits, but the plants you bred could not have changed their DNA due to the conditions their parents were grown in. It's like when people say a strain has been "acclimated" to a certain region by growing it outdoors for several generations. It doesn't work that way. It is all about which parents you choose and whether you backcross and things like that. You may have had an F1 seed stock that became an F2, then F3 and so on. In that case you would see widely varying phenotypes without the hybrid vigor of the original F1 hybrid.

[drhemp]

It takes approximately 12 days for the effects of Marijuana to wear off. So when you smoke marijuana you should not drive for 13 days thereafter.

What rubbish, the effects last for a few hours. The THC can stay in your system for up to 3 months if you are a heavy user, but this is because it's fat soluble, it doesn't mean you are still stoned for this time.

[truedruid]

What rubbish, the effects last for a few hours. The THC can stay in your system for up to 3 months if you are a heavy user, but this is because it's fat soluble, it doesn't mean you are still stoned for this time.He's been brainwashed into think cannabis users reaction times are slow than a non user. Point is your reaction times get slower as you get older, a teenager has better reation times than a 61 yr old, but that doesn't mean the 61yr old should stop driving, I believe car should be made to accommodate the elderly so they can drive, but then a smoker has better reation times than a 61yr old, so why shouldn't they drive.

[drhemp]

I think driving while under the influence of alcohol would be a lot more dangerous than driving while stoned. I never do either, but I would feel safer to be driven by a stoned person than a drunk person.

[humito]

What rubbish, the effects last for a few hours. The THC can stay in your system for up to 3 months if you are a heavy user, but this is because it's fat soluble, it doesn't mean you are still stoned for this time.
dont forget, grandsecretary is a disinformation spreading freemason!:mad:

[slodave]

Can you compare peyote to magic mushrooms and cannabis if you can?
back in 75-76 while traveling the world i had picked and eaten my fill of mushrooms in jamaica and also in southern columbia to the point that my legs became rubber and i couldn't walk for 4-6 hours and smoking the local weed also at the time. a maximum dose. my attitude was, nothing in moderation, wanted the full effect. also a few years earlier, a friend would hitchike 500 miles to new mexico where he knew indians, and came home periodically with a backpack full of fresh peyote buttons, which we would cook down and crystalize making mescaline. again, no less than a max dose and never without the best weed available. we considered ourselves high power coniseuer dope fiends; and the same went for L.S.D. hash etc.. always max doses of the best available and never without the weed. today 30-40 years later i wonder how i ever made it through my adolesence with a brain and lived to tell about it. a unique time and place to grow up. my experiences with the psychedelics were intense and the most memorable. to me the shrooms, was a little scary, dark, and it felt to me like a near death high. maybe it was my state of mind just knowing that some mushrooms were poisen. on several occasions i remember feeling a little scared. peyote, in raw form, max dose there was no fear, only euphoria, self awareness to the point of letting oneself go and and becoming selfless and at one with life, the universe, and everything. nothing but positive with peyote, and my choice above all. its too bad its not more available throughout the world, because i believe that the world would be a much better place and i know why it is used regularly in southwestern indian religion.---------------one reporters opinion--------------

[octopusrex]

Peyote = The Sun.

Mushrooms = The Moon.

Pot = The High Priest.

[slodave]

Peyote = The Sun.

Mushrooms = The Moon.

Pot = The High Priest.
agreed!

[slodave]

I think driving while under the influence of alcohol would be a lot more dangerous than driving while stoned. I never do either, but I would feel safer to be driven by a stoned person than a drunk person.
most definately!

[supertzar]

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh255/supertzar_photos/100_0295-1.jpg

[slodave]

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh255/supertzar_photos/100_0295-1.jpg
a gift from above. for more info. check the peyote foundation website. and for L.S.D. try the Albert Hoffmann foundation website (the inventor of L.S.D.) he died recently at the age of 102. lots of intresting reading.

[charas]

back in 75-76 while traveling the world i had picked and eaten my fill of mushrooms in jamaica and also in southern columbia to the point that my legs became rubber and i couldn't walk for 4-6 hours and smoking the local weed also at the time. a maximum dose. my attitude was, nothing in moderation, wanted the full effect. also a few years earlier, a friend would hitchike 500 miles to new mexico where he knew indians, and came home periodically with a backpack full of fresh peyote buttons, which we would cook down and crystalize making mescaline. again, no less than a max dose and never without the best weed available. we considered ourselves high power coniseuer dope fiends; and the same went for L.S.D. hash etc.. always max doses of the best available and never without the weed. today 30-40 years later i wonder how i ever made it through my adolesence with a brain and lived to tell about it. a unique time and place to grow up. my experiences with the psychedelics were intense and the most memorable. to me the shrooms, was a little scary, dark, and it felt to me like a near death high. maybe it was my state of mind just knowing that some mushrooms were poisen. on several occasions i remember feeling a little scared. peyote, in raw form, max dose there was no fear, only euphoria, self awareness to the point of letting oneself go and and becoming selfless and at one with life, the universe, and everything. nothing but positive with peyote, and my choice above all. its too bad its not more available throughout the world, because i believe that the world would be a much better place and i know why it is used regularly in southwestern indian religion.---------------one reporters opinion--------------

Wow, sounds like you had some adventures :D
Ive not yet tried peyote or mushrooms, weed is my only point to compare other substances with, for my age I have smoked ALOT of weed and many different types for example high grade marrocan hash that bubbles up when you light it, Jamaican weed, Thai and best of all Ethiopian.
I have smoked stuff that lasted 7+ hours of a motivational high, that is to say it does not devastate you, you can still function perfectly (if not better). Wish I had that weed again :cool:

[octopusrex]

a gift from above. for more info. check the peyote foundation website. and for L.S.D. try the Albert Hoffmann foundation website (the inventor of L.S.D.) he died recently at the age of 102. lots of intresting reading.

Peyote for the masses... Hmmm.. Kinda difficult. It's an endangered species. Might be possible to do industrial peyote farming?

San Pedro for the masses.. Doable.

Might save the world after all, folks.:D

[drhemp]

Peyote for the masses... Hmmm.. Kinda difficult. It's an endangered species. Might be possible to do industrial peyote farming?

San Pedro for the masses.. Doable.

Might save the world after all, folks.:D

Some people do grow them commercially, but they mainly do it for the love of it, not the money, as they are such a slow growing species.

There is a peyote farm I know of in Tenerife, where the climate is perfect and there is one in mainland Spain and there are several Dutch growers who grow them indoors.

I have some beautiful specimens you can actually feel the energy off them.

[charas]

I have some peyote cacti, how do I get high with it do I just eat it or do I have to process it someway? :o

[octopusrex]

Some people do grow them commercially, but they mainly do it for the love of it, not the money, as they are such a slow growing species.

There is a peyote farm I know of in Tenerife, where the climate is perfect and there is one in mainland Spain and there are several Dutch growers who grow them indoors.

I have some beautiful specimens you can actually feel the energy off them.

Well, my idea is to make them as available to anybody as ... a tomato. THEN, maybe we can start having fun on this planet.:D

[octopusrex]

I have some peyote cacti, how do I get high with it do I just eat it or do I have to process it someway? :o

If it's alive, DON'T consume him. Try San Pedro FIRST.

Go to a good cactus growing website and plant him first. Clone him. As much as possible. There are good videos on youtube on cloning peyote.

Once you have cloned him, then you can start consuming.

Peyote is eaten raw. You must take off the little hairs. But please.

CLONE FIRST!

CONSUME SECOND!

[slodave]

I have some peyote cacti, how do I get high with it do I just eat it or do I have to process it someway? :o
in southern texas and new mexico there are large ranches where it is legally grown and sold to the indians who use it for religios purposes. it grows wild throughout the southwestern states in desert areas. it grows in clusters on the ground and resembles buttons and grows very slow. an average size 50mm dia. is 3-5 years old. you must clean the hairy area from the center or you will get sick. you can dry and smoke it (usually mixed with cannabis), eat it raw, or make a tea. raw or in a tea it is very bitter. ingested in large amounts people have been known to make a milkshake with ice cream. myself, and friends would choke it down raw, in quartered chunks, while passing around a gallon of wine and smoking weed. alas, fantasia. it also grows plentiful in the border areas in northern mexico but is illegal and you dont want to go to jail in mexico, oh no!

[charas]

I think I'd prefer to dry and smoke it, that way I can try a small amount first and the effect will be instant, I don't lke sitting around waiting for effects :rolleyes:

octopusrex - why san pedro first and why clone them?
To make more of the species coz their rare?

[slodave]

I think I'd prefer to dry and smoke it, that way I can try a small amount first and the effect will be instant, I don't lke sitting around waiting for effects :rolleyes:

octopusrex - why san pedro first and why clone them?
To make more of the species coz their rare?
you will get the best effect eating it, and just 1 or 2 wont do much. 8-12 medium sized might be good.

[slodave]

todays local newspaper read: in rancho cucamonga, a suberb of san bernardino, southern california that a 26 year old man was arrested a few weeks back posessing 7 ounces of weed and $750.00 cash. he went before the judge yesterday. he showed his medical marijuana card, and had a perscription for cronic back pain, due to a motorcycle accident. the case was dismissed and for the first time ever in this county,HIS 7 OUNCES OF MARIJUANA WAS RETURNED TO HIM and also the money.

[octopusrex]

I think I'd prefer to dry and smoke it, that way I can try a small amount first and the effect will be instant, I don't lke sitting around waiting for effects :rolleyes:

octopusrex - why san pedro first and why clone them?
To make more of the species coz their rare?

1. The effect of smoking peyote is nothing compared to the effect of eating it. You would be wasting it.

2. Don't "try" - commit or don't.

3. San Pedro has a lower level of mescaline (you can "try" it) but at high dose, carries a strong punch. Also, San Pedro is plentiful, and Peyote is in danger of extinction.

[humito]

Some people do grow them commercially, but they mainly do it for the love of it, not the money, as they are such a slow growing species.

There is a peyote farm I know of in Tenerife, where the climate is perfect and there is one in mainland Spain and there are several Dutch growers who grow them indoors.

I have some beautiful specimens you can actually feel the energy off them.

I had a similar experience with a beautifull fly agaric I picked.........the spiritual energy in the room it was in was tangable !

the high from it after consumption was better than any pscilocybin ,lsd or mescaline ive taken.............i have found that with fly agaric you can tell which ones want to be picked by sensing this energy before removal .;)

[charas]

1. The effect of smoking peyote is nothing compared to the effect of eating it. You would be wasting it.

2. Don't "try" - commit or don't.

3. San Pedro has a lower level of mescaline (you can "try" it) but at high dose, carries a strong punch. Also, San Pedro is plentiful, and Peyote is in danger of extinction.

Ok thanks!

[monkeyboy]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090718/ap_on_re_us/us_california_gone_to_pot


California sprouts 'green rush' from marijuana
AP

In this May 20, 2009 photo, Tom Romero packs one-eighth-ounce bags of medical AP – In this May 20, 2009 photo, Tom Romero packs one-eighth-ounce bags of medical marijuana at The Green …
By MARCUS WOHLSEN and LISA LEFF, Associated Press Writers Marcus Wohlsen And Lisa Leff, Associated Press Writers – 2 hrs 54 mins ago

SAN FRANCISCO – A drug deal plays out, California-style: A conservatively dressed courier drives a company-leased Smart Car to an apartment on a weekday afternoon. Erick Alvaro hands over a white paper bag to his 58-year-old customer, who inspects the bag to ensure everything he ordered over the phone is there.

An eighth-ounce of organic marijuana buds for treating his seasonal allergies? Check. An eighth of a different pot strain for insomnia? Check. THC-infused lozenges and tea bags? Check and check, with a free herb-laced cookie thrown in as a thank-you gift.

It's a $102 credit card transaction carried out with the practiced efficiency of a home-delivered pizza — and with just about as much legal scrutiny.

More and more, having premium pot delivered to your door in California is not a crime. It is a legitimate business.

Marijuana has transformed California. Since the state became the first to legalize the drug for medicinal use, the weed the federal government puts in the same category as heroin and cocaine has become a major economic force.

No longer relegated to the underground, pot in California these days props up local economies, mints millionaires and feeds a thriving industry of startups designed to grow, market and distribute the drug.

Based on the quantity of marijuana authorities seized last year, the crop was worth an estimated $17 billion or more, dwarfing any other sector of the state's agricultural economy.

Experts say most of that marijuana is still sold as a recreational drug on the black market. But more recently the plant has put down deep financial roots in highly visible, taxpaying businesses:

Stores that sell high-tech marijuana growing equipment. Pot clubs that pay rent and hire workers. Marijuana themed magazines and food products. Chains of for-profit clinics with doctors who specialize in medical marijuana recommendations.

The plant's prominence does not come without costs, say some critics. Marijuana plantations in remote forests cause severe environmental damage. Indoor grow houses in some towns put rentals beyond the reach of students and young families. Rural counties with declining economies cannot attract new businesses because the available work force is caught up in the pot industry. Authorities link the drug to violent crime in otherwise quiet small towns.

"For those of us who are on the front lines, it's not about pot is bad in itself or drugs are bad," said Meredith Lintott, district attorney in Mendocino County, one of the country's top marijuana-producing regions.

"It's about the negative consequences on children. It's about the negative consequences on the environment."

Still, the sheer scale of the overall pot economy has some lawmakers pushing for broader legalization as a way to shore up the finances of a state that has teetered on the edge of bankruptcy. The state's top tax collector estimates that taxing pot like liquor could bring in more than $1.3 billion annually.

On Tuesday, Oakland will consider a measure to tax the city's four marijuana dispensaries, which the city auditor projects will ring up $17.5 million in sales in 2010. The city faces an $83 million budget shortfall, and expects the marijuana tax to raise $315,000.

Advocates point out that making pot legal would create millions if not billions of dollars more in indirect sales — the ingredients used to make edible pot products, advertising, tourism and smoking paraphernalia.

With a recent poll showing more than half of Californians supporting legalization, pot advocates believe they will prevail. And they say other states will follow.

Tim Blake is the proprietor of a 145-acre spiritual retreat center which holds an annual marijuana bud-growing contest in the heart of Northern California's pot-growing country.

Politicians, he says, are "going to see the economic benefits, they're going to see the health benefits and they're going to jump on the bandwagon."

___

On a property flanked by vineyards, Mendocino County farmer Jim Hill grows marijuana for up to 20 patients, including himself and his wife. He believes passionately in marijuana's purported ability to treat the symptoms of diseases ranging from cancer to Alzheimer's; he says his wife suffers from a serotonin imbalance, and he uses the drug to treat digestive problems and intestinal cramping.

Hill's plants enjoy careful nurturing in a temperature-controlled greenhouse. On a recent spring day, his college-age son spread bat guano to fertilize two dozen 6-foot-tall plants.

Hill is 45 years old; he says he spent $10,000 to set up the garden. Patients receive their drugs free in exchange for helping with his crop.

"It's kind of like living on an apple orchard," Hill said. "You don't pay for an apple."

Though marijuana is cultivated throughout California, the most prized crops come from the forested mountains and hidden valleys of Mendocino, Humboldt and Trinity counties — the Emerald Triangle.

The economic impact of so much pot is difficult to gauge. Authorities say the largest grows are run by Mexican drug cartels that simply funnel money from forest-raised crops back into their own bank accounts.

Still, marijuana money from outdoor and indoor plots inevitably flows into local coffers. Marijuana increases residents' retail buying power by about $58 million countywide, according to a Mendocino County report. The county ranks 48th out of 58 counties in median income but, by counting pot proceeds, could jump as high as 18th.

Businesses benefit from mom-and-pop growers who cultivate pot to supplement their incomes and from marijuana plantation workers who descend on the Emerald Triangle from all over the country for the fall harvest. Pot "trimmers" can earn more than $40 per hour.

In Ukiah, the county's largest city, business owners say the extra cash is crucial. "I really don't think we would exist without it," says Nicole Martensen, 37, whose wine and garden shop is stocked with bottles from county vintners.

The skunk-like smell of marijuana hangs over the town of about 11,000 during the October harvest, when cash registers brim with $100 bills. Sometimes the wads of cash spent in Martensen's shop come dusted with pot.

But Ukiah banker Marty Lombardi says existing businesses cannot compete with pot industry wages for workers. Lombardi's bank does not make loans to anyone suspected of trying to fund a pot operation, but he said most growers do not need them.

"I don't think you or I have any sense for how much money is generated," he said.

Mendocino County Sheriff Tom Allman says medical marijuana operations that follow state and county laws will face no hassles from his department. His deputies left intact 154 marijuana grows they visited last year, he said

"If you're living in the boundaries, I'm not going to mess with you," Allman said.

Which is not to say that there is no legal risk to growing, selling or buying marijuana. Federal laws still apply, and pot dealings not deemed medicinal are considered criminal by the state.

Local, state and federal authorities pulled up 364,000 plants across Mendocino last year. And the state Department of Justice reported more than 16,000 felony arrests and nearly 58,000 misdemeanor arrests for marijuana offenses in 2007 — the highest numbers in a decade.

Sparky Rose sits in the federal prison in Lompoc, serving a 37-month term. Law enforcement officials insist he is one of many sellers who have used the medical marijuana law as a guise for old-time drug dealing. Rose does not disagree, although he would like to think he helped some legitimate pot patients in the process.

A one-time Web designer, he started out in 2001 making $15 an hour as a "bud tender" working the counter at an Oakland club. Four years later, he was overseeing a dispensary chain with stores in seven cities, 283 employees and sales reaching $5 million a month.

That's not as much as it seems, he says. Much of the money went to pay salaries, to purchase equipment and to buy 200 pounds of marijuana each week.

Rose says he was making $500,000 a year before his 2006 arrest, a sum he considers fair given the chain's volume and the risk he assumed as the company's public face. Before opening a new location, he would meet with local officials and police to get their implicit OK.

"We operated out in the open, and the feds knew who we were and they let us do it for four years, so as time goes on you get this comfortable feeling," he says.

"While I was still in the business, a lot people would ask me, 'I'm thinking about starting a club, what advice do you have?' "And I'd say, 'The biggest warning is sooner or later, you will start to think it's legal.'"

___

Even people accustomed to buying marijuana over the counter are impressed when they visit the Farmacy, a dispensary-cum-New Age apothecary with three locations in Los Angeles. Decorated in soft beige and staffed by workers in lab coats, the Venice store sells organic toiletries, essential oils and incense along with 25 types of pot stored in glass jars, including strains such as Beverly Bubba and Third Eye.

Anyone can shop there, but to buy the cannabis-infused gelato, olive oil, soft drinks and other "edibles," customers must show a doctor's recommendation, have the information verified by the doctor's office and obtain a patient identification number for future visits.

During a two-hour span, the dozen or so customers who made a purchase all bought pot products and paid the 9.25 percent state sales tax on top of their purchases. The clubs, which are not supposed to turn a profit, call their transactions "donations."

Allen Siegel is 74; he is dying of cancer and wants to try smoking marijuana to ease his pain without knocking him out like prescription drugs do. So his wife, Ina, brought him to the Farmacy for his first visit as a legal pot patient.

"You go in there and they have so many choices," she says.

California's "green rush" was spurred by a voter-approved law 13 years ago that authorized patients with a doctor's recommendation to possess and cultivate marijuana for personal use. Although a dozen other states have adopted similar laws, California is the only one where privately owned pot shops have flourished.

Los Angeles County alone has more than 400 pot dispensaries and delivery services, nearly twice as many outlets as Amsterdam, the Netherlands capital whose coffee shops have for decades been synonymous with free-market marijuana.

Promoted as a way to shield people with AIDS, cancer and anorexia who use marijuana from prosecution, the 1996 Compassionate Use Act also permitted limited possession for "any other illness for which marijuana provides relief."

The broad language opened the door to doctors willing to recommend pot for nearly any ailment. In a survey of nearly 2,500 patients, longtime Berkeley medical marijuana advocate Dr. Tod Mikuriya found that almost three-quarters of the patients used the drug for pain relief or mental health issues.

Dispensaries began selling marijuana, although they were risking federal charges. Some operators have become less fearful since U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder said this year that the Justice Department would not target pot operations following state laws, reducing the risk of random federal raids that existed under the Bush administration.

California's pot dispensaries now have more in common with a corner grocery than a speakeasy. They advertise freely, offering discount coupons and daily specials.

Justin Hartfield, a 25-year-old Web designer and business student, founded WeedMaps.com, where pot clubs and doctors who write medi-pot recommendations list their services and users post reviews. Hartfield says the year-old site brought in $20,000 this month, an amount he expects to double in August.

Hartfield exhibited at THC Expo, a two-day trade show at the Los Angeles Convention Center that attracted an estimated 35,000 attendees in June. There was hydroponic gardening equipment and bong vendors and bikini-clad models wearing leis made of fake marijuana leaves.

Like just about everyone else connected to the cannabis trade, Hartfield has a letter from a doctor that entitles him to buy medical marijuana from a dispensary. But he sees no point in pretending he is treating anything more than his taste for smoking weed.

"It is a joke. It's a legal way for me to get what I used to get on the street," he said.

He recalls telling the doctor who provided the referral that he suffered from insomnia and anxiety, though neither was true. As he signed the paperwork, the doctor "congratulated me like I was getting my degree from Harvard."

___

What would happen if marijuana was legal — not just for medical uses, but for all uses?

Assemblyman Tom Ammiano, D-San Francisco, wants the state to tax and regulate all pot as it does alcohol. State Board of Equalization chairwoman Betty Yee, a supporter, projects the law would generate $990 million annually through a $50-per-ounce fee for retailers and $392 million in sales taxes. (The state now collects $18 million each year in taxes on medical marijuana.)

The state would not start collecting taxes on marijuana under Ammiano's bill until the federal government lifts its restrictions on the drug.

That's not enough for pro-pot activists who want Californians to vote next year on a proposal that would allow adults to legally possess up to one ounce of pot and allow cities to sell and tax the drug.

"Local governments are malnourished and in need of revenue badly," said Aaron Smith, state policy director for the Marijuana Policy Project, which advocates legalization. "There's this multibillion-dollar industry that's the elephant in the room that they're not able to tap into."

Lintott, the Mendocino prosecutor, is not convinced that legalization would put an end to the underworld's marijuana operations. She argues that big-time growers would never bother filing tax returns. "Legalizing it isn't going to touch the big money," she says.

But others predict the black-market business model would fall apart.

Large-scale agri-businesses in California's Central Valley would dominate legal marijuana production as they already do bulk wine grapes, advocates argue. Pot prices would fall dramatically, forcing growers to abandon costly clandestine operations that authorities say trash the land and steal scarce water.

And legalization, supporters insist, would save state and local governments billions on police, court and prison costs.

But others survey California in 2009 and say the cannabis future is now. Richard Lee has parlayed a pair of Oakland dispensaries into a mini-empire that includes a marijuana lifestyle magazine, an "adult consumption" club, a starter plant nursery and a three-campus marijuana trade school. Oaksterdam University's main campus is a prominent fixture in revitalized downtown Oakland.

All without legalization.

"It's like here's reality, and here's the law," Lee says. "The culture has gone so far beyond the law, people have gotten used to being able to get quality product. They are not going to go back."

[nosferatu_dj]

check this out

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=73440

[nosferatu_dj]

found a very good site for latest info on cannabis, marijuana

http://www.cannabisfacts.info/

anyone know if there is any nice doctors in Australia that i could go visit?

[pegcityevolve]

Cannabis is good for you but, remember too much of any brainwave (delta/theta/alpha/beta/gamma) can cause problems.

"Couch-lock" weed, or potent medical strain, induce a lot of theta and delta waves for healing. The hyper weed, sativa, I believe is just shooting alpha and gamma waves into your energy being.

Don't be like most POTHEADS (looks at past self) and never give time for your cannibinoid receptors to repair, or just smoke moderately so you don't wear them down at all! It's like lifting weights, you lift too much at once and you actually decrease muscle mass.

[on the road]

im smoking amnesia haze :)

[lewi]

Bob Marley - Legalize Marijuana - YouTube

[nosferatu_dj]

Sativex is available now in 22 countries including Australia via what is known as named patient
supply. GW Pharmaceuticals are not allowed to promote this, so you are not going to see any advertisements or read about it in newspapers.

Under this procedure, a patient's doctor writes a prescription for Sativex that is sent to GW Pharmaceuticals in the UK. In countries that allow this, the material is then sent directly to the patient. The process begins with the doctor sending an enquiry to:

Info@gwpharm.com



GW Pharmaceuticals has published two new press releases:

20/05/2009
- Interim Results For The Six Months Ended 31 March 2009
- GW Files Sativex® Regulatory Submission

To read the press releases, go to:
http://www.gwpharm.co.uk/news_press_releases.asp


Sativex Information

http://www.hempembassy.net/hempe/resources/Rog%20Sativex%20NP%20MS%20Neurology%202005.pdf

http://www.hempembassy.net/hempe/resources/Nurmikko%20Sativex%20NP%20Allodynia%20Pain%202007. pdf

http://www.hempembassy.net/hempe/resources/painmanage.pdf
-------------------------------------------------------

now all i gota do is find a doc in australia willing to prescribe this.

[pegcityevolve]

We should have an official "I'm currently stoned" thread for those who are high on good ol' THC and discuss things.

[nosferatu_dj]

We should have an official "I'm currently stoned" thread for those who are high on good ol' THC and discuss things.

hmmm well that would take up all my time... 24/7 420;)

[ustane]

I've watched 'Run From The Cure'. I read on the Talk To Frank website about drugs and other sources that mushrooms containing psyllocibin are class A and carry a long spell of imprisonment (7 Years I think) and an unlimited fine. If they contain psyllocibin they open up awareness and you can see into the 4th dimension where users have seen the entities operating there that they do not want you to see

[lewi]

Bone Thugs - The Weed Song - YouTube

[nosferatu_dj]

Weed War- ICP, Twiztid, Kottonmouth Kings - YouTube

Just a minute ladies and gentelmen, I think something is happening

The planet earth is the third outermost planet of nine planets orbiting a single sun

A long time ago in a far away galaxy
Alien dope fiends ran out of the weed
They built a ship with a cannabis radar
Before they left they built 2 for Darth Vader
Who told them of a planet where the dank shit grows
And hydroponics is a science that everyone knows
So they set out on a mission to a planet called earth
On a neverending quest to get their herbs

Their on a neverending quest to get high,
Their on a neverending quest to get high,
It's a weed war and somebodies gonna die

Abductees on T.V told me in secrecy
about a government conspiracy
to snatch all of our crops
to keep the cops paid
Pot for technology the deal has been made
And uncle sam is behind the scam
He's slinging sacks behind our backs
Raisin the tax to the max
I hear he's geting stoned with the sleestax

Renegade potsmokers get united
UFO's and dirtfeelers have been sighted
So people don't trip and cause mass hysteria
There's a skunky funky smell in the roswell area

51 ships have landed
They've been commanded
to grab the herbs that we have planted
You know they didn't count on a counterattack
and I never leave home without a
Fat sack
So I grabbed my nine gram bag of kind
A lighter and some papers
It was all I could find
Ran to head quarters, grabbed a big old glass
With the intention of smokin some alien grass

Were on a neverending quest to get high,
A neverending quest to get high,
Were on a neverending quest to get high,
Circles in my crop that shit gotta stop
Were on a neverending quest to get high,
Were on a neverending quest to get high,
Were on a neverending quest to get high,
Circles in my crop that shit gotta stop

So we pulled up to the gates of the alien camp
We've come all alone with some homegrown hemp
Fighting for the right of mans' kind
(Alien) We can outsmoke you earthlings anytime
So you wanna battle?
Lets get it on
Me and you
One on One
Bong for Bong
Hey grey, I hope your vegetarian
Cause floatacious dank
Is what I'm carrying
He replied
(Alien) This shit's alright
And he broke out with some space flavoured kryptonite
So I broke off a chunk of that cosmic funk
And I shattered the glass like Shag fu dunk

It's my turn so I reached in my sack
To pack a fat bowl to make this (inaudible)
Pulled the switch with some ditch dirt weed
Sticks oregano and some birdseed
He started chokin, smoke was shooting out his gills
And when he drank the bong water
Ooh, He gave me chills
I mean he fell on the ground and started throwin up
As I went crosseyed his head was blowin up
His brain exploded, the shed was fried
That was the last of the neverending quest to get high

Were on a neverending quest to get high,
It's a weed war and the aliens just died

[octopusrex]

We should have an official "I'm currently stoned" thread for those who are high on good ol' THC and discuss things.

That would be me.:D

[slodave]

im smoking amnesia haze :)
lol, i see colors

[slodave]

I've watched 'Run From The Cure'. I read on the Talk To Frank website about drugs and other sources that mushrooms containing psyllocibin are class A and carry a long spell of imprisonment (7 Years I think) and an unlimited fine. If they contain psyllocibin they open up awareness and you can see into the 4th dimension where users have seen the entities operating there that they do not want you to see
so go to jamaica where you can pick and eat, drink, make a psychedelic egg/mushroom omlet, smoke em, keester them, and basically fill yourself up all the way, and chase it all down with the local rum and herb, and when your legs turn into rubberbands and you can no longer walk, and your vision gets colorful, crystal clear, blurry, blind,and everseeing all at once. as your mind goes into interstellar overdrive, and your body melts into the scenery, and you lose all self importance, and personal history and you become nothing and everything and all is clear, positive, truth, and one; life, the universe, everything, and the light, and go ahead, have another and see what the next split second brings. there are really no words to describe mega-doses of psychedelics, we are all different. just go with the flow, dont fight it and self realization can occur. it will open, and can expand your mind in a positive way if you allow it to. its all up to you, and learning to fearlesly let go."------and there i was, in a long field of tall grass-------" eric burdon.

[slodave]

We should have an official "I'm currently stoned" thread for those who are high on good ol' THC and discuss things.
run with it

[drhemp]

The Angel Declaration

1. We declare and affirm our view that the UK prohibition of controlled substances, introduced in the 1920s and now embodied in the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971, has proved ineffective in the achievement of its objects, counter-productive in its side-effects, wasteful of public resources, destructive in its cultivation of criminality and commercial abuse, and inhumane in its operation. The Act no longer constitutes an appropriate form of social regulation, consistent with the UK's Human Rights commitments.

2. We affirm our view that the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971 and consequential legislation should be repealed and replaced by a system of licensed retail outlets, supplied by a chain of licensed producers, importers and distributors, incorporating all necessary quality-control provisions. Reform legislation should also prescribe new arrangements for educational, therapeutic and harm-reduction measures to address problematical drug use wherever it occurs. If such action were to require the renegotiation of UK treaty obligations, we would advocate such renegotiation. Suitable licensing arrangements should be made by local authorities, under new legislation, in respect of retail premises, in the light of local demand, local circumstances, and the characteristics of the substances to be sold. UK public authorities have, historically, extensive experience of these forms of public regulation, and we advocate their extension to all the substances currently controlled by the 1971 Act.

3. We affirm our view that the system should operate within the framework of a new National Drugs Agency. With the exception of plant material cultivated domestically* in the UK and supplied for personal or social consumption, a premises licence should be required for the retail sale of each primary class of substance, within the framework of guidelines issued by that Agency. In particular, the Agency would issue guidelines upon health risks, medical referrals, and the advisory or other precautionary provisions to be required by way of licence condition. The accessibility of each substance should be kept under review by the Agency (including access by prescription where appropriate) with the aim of minimising detrimental health effects. In the case of certain substances, licence conditions might require the supervision of sales by a suitably qualified person. And the Agency would in particular address the interaction between such retail sales and the prevailing medical prescription regimes for any comparable substances.

4. We envisage a National Drugs Agency as a consultative and advisory Agency, facilitating the participation of all relevant interests, including drug users and those concerned with medical and related services, law and fiscal enforcement, producers, distributors and retailers. Apart from the provisions of primary legislation, any new executive initiatives would be by way only of subordinate legislation. We envisage that the functions of the Agency would be to advise the Government and local authorities on the operation of the legislation, to formulate national policy for premises licensing and retail sales, to establish product purity standards and to monitor enforcement, to license and monitor the importation of drugs and all forms of UK production, and to liaise internationally for all purposes.

5. We affirm our view that further measures will in due course be required to achieve an integrated regulatory system, but that the immediate legislative reform should focus on substances falling within the scope of the 1971 Act, and should not extend to alcohol, tobacco, or the current arrangements for the control of medicines. Further, while it would be essential to ensure the competitive retail pricing of relevant substances in order to minimise the incidence of illegal markets and criminal networks, it would be for Government to consider in due course the taxation treatment of this form of regulated supply.

6. We affirm our view that the regulation of drug supply is an entirely legitimate collective purpose, enforceable with all appropriate civil and criminal sanctions. Under our proposed system, all supplies would be either excepted (domestic UK plant production) or licensed. Criminal sanctions should be put in place to prevent all other retail sales, as well as any unlicensed production, import or distribution. Retail licences would also prevent, upon pain of criminal sanction as well as licence withdrawal, the sale of any relevant substance to a minor, or to any person in contemplation of any supply to a minor, or of onward commercial sale of any kind. Licensees would be under a duty to refuse to sell, upon pain of criminal sanction, if either circumstance were suspected. Licensees would be free to sell licensed products in such quantities as were considered appropriate for personal or social group consumption, and in compliance with NDA guidelines.

7. We affirm our view that the end of drug-prohibition should be accompanied by public investment to minimise any harm done, whether individually or socially, by the use of drugs. This alternative approach would reduce drug-acquisition crime, facilitate the education both of the young and of adult users, reduce the incidence of problematic drug use, facilitate the deployment of therapeutic support, disempower the criminal drug-dealing networks, release public enforcement resources for other deployment, constitute a system compatible with the European Convention of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms, and generate a new and acceptable source of public income.

* "domestically" includes cultivation in gardens, allotments, garages, sheds and attics.

http://www.lca-uk.org/node/26

[slodave]

the angel declaration

1. We declare and affirm our view that the uk prohibition of controlled substances, introduced in the 1920s and now embodied in the misuse of drugs act 1971, has proved ineffective in the achievement of its objects, counter-productive in its side-effects, wasteful of public resources, destructive in its cultivation of criminality and commercial abuse, and inhumane in its operation. The act no longer constitutes an appropriate form of social regulation, consistent with the uk's human rights commitments.

2. We affirm our view that the misuse of drugs act 1971 and consequential legislation should be repealed and replaced by a system of licensed retail outlets, supplied by a chain of licensed producers, importers and distributors, incorporating all necessary quality-control provisions. Reform legislation should also prescribe new arrangements for educational, therapeutic and harm-reduction measures to address problematical drug use wherever it occurs. If such action were to require the renegotiation of uk treaty obligations, we would advocate such renegotiation. Suitable licensing arrangements should be made by local authorities, under new legislation, in respect of retail premises, in the light of local demand, local circumstances, and the characteristics of the substances to be sold. Uk public authorities have, historically, extensive experience of these forms of public regulation, and we advocate their extension to all the substances currently controlled by the 1971 act.

3. We affirm our view that the system should operate within the framework of a new national drugs agency. With the exception of plant material cultivated domestically* in the uk and supplied for personal or social consumption, a premises licence should be required for the retail sale of each primary class of substance, within the framework of guidelines issued by that agency. In particular, the agency would issue guidelines upon health risks, medical referrals, and the advisory or other precautionary provisions to be required by way of licence condition. The accessibility of each substance should be kept under review by the agency (including access by prescription where appropriate) with the aim of minimising detrimental health effects. In the case of certain substances, licence conditions might require the supervision of sales by a suitably qualified person. And the agency would in particular address the interaction between such retail sales and the prevailing medical prescription regimes for any comparable substances.

4. We envisage a national drugs agency as a consultative and advisory agency, facilitating the participation of all relevant interests, including drug users and those concerned with medical and related services, law and fiscal enforcement, producers, distributors and retailers. Apart from the provisions of primary legislation, any new executive initiatives would be by way only of subordinate legislation. We envisage that the functions of the agency would be to advise the government and local authorities on the operation of the legislation, to formulate national policy for premises licensing and retail sales, to establish product purity standards and to monitor enforcement, to license and monitor the importation of drugs and all forms of uk production, and to liaise internationally for all purposes.

5. We affirm our view that further measures will in due course be required to achieve an integrated regulatory system, but that the immediate legislative reform should focus on substances falling within the scope of the 1971 act, and should not extend to alcohol, tobacco, or the current arrangements for the control of medicines. Further, while it would be essential to ensure the competitive retail pricing of relevant substances in order to minimise the incidence of illegal markets and criminal networks, it would be for government to consider in due course the taxation treatment of this form of regulated supply.

6. We affirm our view that the regulation of drug supply is an entirely legitimate collective purpose, enforceable with all appropriate civil and criminal sanctions. Under our proposed system, all supplies would be either excepted (domestic uk plant production) or licensed. Criminal sanctions should be put in place to prevent all other retail sales, as well as any unlicensed production, import or distribution. Retail licences would also prevent, upon pain of criminal sanction as well as licence withdrawal, the sale of any relevant substance to a minor, or to any person in contemplation of any supply to a minor, or of onward commercial sale of any kind. Licensees would be under a duty to refuse to sell, upon pain of criminal sanction, if either circumstance were suspected. Licensees would be free to sell licensed products in such quantities as were considered appropriate for personal or social group consumption, and in compliance with nda guidelines.

7. We affirm our view that the end of drug-prohibition should be accompanied by public investment to minimise any harm done, whether individually or socially, by the use of drugs. This alternative approach would reduce drug-acquisition crime, facilitate the education both of the young and of adult users, reduce the incidence of problematic drug use, facilitate the deployment of therapeutic support, disempower the criminal drug-dealing networks, release public enforcement resources for other deployment, constitute a system compatible with the european convention of human rights and fundamental freedoms, and generate a new and acceptable source of public income.

* "domestically" includes cultivation in gardens, allotments, garages, sheds and attics.

http://www.lca-uk.org/node/26
drhemp for president!!!

[drhemp]

Britain’s drugs classifications and penalties are arbitrary and unlawful, according to a forthcoming High Court challenge.

A London man has been granted leave to appeal to the High Court for permission to judicially review the decision to try him for the production of cannabis.

Medical-marijuana user Edwin Stratton claims the Government’s criminalisation of cannabis does not follow the demands of the law as stated in the Misuse of Drugs Act.

The High Court judicial review will examine the government’s application of the law, based on British legal system rules that say decisions made by public officials must be procedurally fair, lawful and rational and must include relevant factors and exclude irrelevant factors.

His appeal is based on four key issues: The unequal and discriminatory application of the law to controlled and non-controlled drug users, and the maladministration of the Misuse of Drugs Act; and the right to privacy and the protection of property rights, as guaranteed to all citizens under the Human Rights Act.

Mr Stratton, who was charged in May 2008 with production of a controlled substance for his personal cannabis plants, said the Government did not understand its own legislation. While he supports the Misuse of Drugs Act itself, he is essentially challenging the Government’s misapplication of the law, by challenging the courts’ upholding of that misapplication.

And his claims are supported by the Government’s own Advisory Council for the Misuse of Drugs – the statutory body required to advise on drug laws. In a paper published in The Lancet in 2007 Professor David Nutt, chair of the ACMD, said “The current classification system has evolved in an unsystematic way from somewhat arbitrary foundations with seemingly little scientific basis.”

The Misuse of Drugs Act is not a policy for prohibition, but of protection. It covers legislation “with respect to drugs which are being or appear likely to be misused and of which the misuse is having or appears capable of having harmful effects sufficient to constitute a social problem”. And it allows for any method of control that best serves in protecting society, including healthcare, education and police intervention.

Mr Stratton says the Government is preoccupied with criminalising cannabis, while other more harmful drugs, namely alcohol and tobacco, remain legal.

And figures from both the Department of Health and Office for National Statistics back him up.

Yearly deaths attributed to tobacco average more than 100,000, alcohol averages around 60,000, while drugs (all drugs, not just cannabis) average less than 1500. When examining death certificates for causes attributed specifically to cannabis, reports state the figures are in some cases single digits, in others, zero.

Professor Nutt concurred in his Lancet paper: “The exclusion of alcohol and tobacco from the Act is, from a scientific perspective, arbitrary.”

Mr Stratton said: “The (Misuse of Drugs) Act guarantees that drugs policy must be fair, even-handed and proportionate to the actual harms each drug represents according to evidence.

“The government is arbitrarily picking and choosing the people to whom it applies the law. That is wholly unlawful.”

Mr Stratton uses cannabis to alleviate his disabling coeliac condition. It relieves his pain and nausea and increases his appetite, while also enabling him to cut his prescription medication by half.

In May 2008 police entered and searched Mr Stratton’s house when a nearby fire was feared to be spreading to neighbouring properties. His personal cannabis crop was discovered, but Mr Stratton rejected a police caution, claiming that under the Human Rights Act the denial of his right to grow and possess was discriminatory, and a violation of his privacy and property rights. He was then charged with the production of a controlled drug. But when he appeared at the Waltham Forest Magistrates Court he declined to plead, and moved to quash the indictment on the basis it was an abuse of process. The magistrate agreed to adjourn proceedings and gave Mr Stratton leave to apply to the High Court for judicial review of the decision to prosecute.

“I’m calling for my prosecution to be forbidden and my indictment to be thrown out, because if the Government doesn’t consider alcohol and tobacco to be productive of social problems sufficient to warrant custody for those involved in property activities (possession) of those drugs, the Government has no cause to lock up those who possess less harmful drugs,” Mr Stratton said.

“I’m not calling for alcohol to be outlawed, but for users of less harmful drugs to be granted equal human rights to those enjoyed by users of alcohol.”

The judicial review, currently in a queue waiting to be heard, has potentially wide-reaching consequences, including setting a precedent that says cannabis criminalisation is unlawful and providing a basis for appeal on cannabis-related convictions.

“All I want is not to be tried, and to have my property and growing equipment returned,” Mr Stratton said.

“Of course, the ramifications are the important thing – if the High Court finds that I cannot be tried for growing cannabis, the floodgates may open.”

Darryl Bickler, a non-practicing solicitor and founding member of the Drug Equality Alliance, said Mr Stratton’s case and argument were strong.

“This case is unique. Frankly, I think it is perfectly timed, and entirely true, so if the courts do their stuff, then it will succeed,” he said.

The Home Office refused to comment on Mr Stratton’s judicial review, or the potential consequences it poses, until the High Court has handed down its ruling.

[rodin]

I've watched 'Run From The Cure'. I read on the Talk To Frank website about drugs and other sources that mushrooms containing psyllocibin are class A and carry a long spell of imprisonment (7 Years I think) and an unlimited fine. If they contain psyllocibin they open up awareness and you can see into the 4th dimension where users have seen the entities operating there that they do not want you to see

It is not a 4th dimension, it is some thing else, but I would like to know more about the 'entities you see'

[nectars]

It is not a 4th dimension, it is some thing else, but I would like to know more about the 'entities you see'

Astral(mental) planes.

[godgoo]

This doesn't really apply to me :) I smoked alot of dope when I was in my teens. but I haven't smoked a cigarette or a spliff for many years. I think roughly 15 years or so. I simply refuse to smoke anything, but I don't need drugs my own body is very proficient at the reward system thing. Sometimes I might aswell have had something I get that high. Sometimes it's like I have had meth. And had none. Bliss, keep your system clean, rewards come a plenty :)

[rodin]

Astral(mental) planes.

More unscientific nomenclature - astral planes

Planes are flat surfaces - astral planes are 2D projections of (I guess) deep space. Meaningless

edit

We continue to be under the spell of Hoaxes R Us until we reclaim meaningful language

Orwell/Blair was soooo right

[slodave]

It is not a 4th dimension, it is some thing else, but I would like to know more about the 'entities you see'
how bout you try a mega-dose of any of the mind expanding psychedelic substances and explain to us of your personal experience rather than pick apart others words and attempt to feed your ego. if you fear a trying it for yourself, and would rather just read about it from a safe cowardly stance, you might go to the albert hoffman foundation, him being the inventor of L.S.D.,or the peyote foundation website, or for a good look at a personal voyage into the realm of an american indian medicine man, get som info. from the writings of carlos castaneda, a college professor. he has written 7 or so books on the subject, but i would say, the only way to know for sure, is to go there yourself, if you truely have the balls....or are you here simply to criticize??? each and every person is unique, and many experiences are as unexplainable as interstellar overdrive. to go there you wouldn't be asking or trying to analyze in such an adolecent way.

[supertzar]

Hahaha. slodave rocks!

[pegcityevolve]

Agreed.

[slodave]

Hahaha. slodave rocks!
thanks. i didn't know if i was out of line with my response.

[drhemp]

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/freeamedicinalcannabisuser/

We the undersigned, do not believe it can be properly said to be in the public interest to prosecute Jim Starr, a medical/ therapeutic user of cannabis, for growing cannabis in his own home for his own personal use.

We, as members of the public, call on the Attorney General or the Director of Public Prosecutions to halt these proceedings immediately.

[lewi]

I think the fight to make it legal is one we may never win but we should never give up as people need a choice maybe we should hold a referendum.

Asking the people what they want is the only way forward but they should be given all the facts.

[nightwriterk]

It Should Be De-Criminalized!

There is no reason for any government entity to have any concern about this plant that is not only as harmless as any herb or spice in your kitchen cabinet but actually offers great health benefits.

An article for you: http://WhyDecriminaliseWeed.info

[supertzar]

It Should Be De-Criminalized!

There is no reason for any government entity to have any concern about this plant that is not only as harmless as any herb or spice in your kitchen cabinet but actually offers great health benefits.

An article for you: http://WhyDecriminaliseWeed.info

To me (and I think this is the accepted meaning) decriminalization means there still may be laws that if you get caught you have to pay a fine. It wouldn't be a misdemeanor or felony anymore, but it still might be against the law. My town has decriminalized pot laws, but you still get a ticket if you are caught smoking.

[slodave]

here in sunny so. california, it wont be long, but i fear that our dictators and enforcers will think up something twisted and negative to make it all bad. no matter me being an old bitter untrusting outlaw pot smoking non-conformist. it is what it is, no matter. legal or not, i'm not gonna buy from them, nor pay their taxes. and bye the way purple haze, to me, and i believe also to jimi, who wrote the song, it was a dark purple tab of perscription LSD-25, from sandoz labs in switzerland. it was a small club in L.A. area. in1967 or 68 jimi ate some also, as did many in the audience. and he played it. still get the chills, sorry all you seed and strain experts. to me purple haze is all about albert hoffman and his awesome contribution to mankind, LSD... purple haze. never to be forgotten life changing memories purple bud, fuck yes, send it! here in cali now, its a light-whiteish advacado green seedless. every body has a name for it, and homie knows the strains and all. this one im calling "stinkie spicy spacy" lol and luvin it. legal r not,no matter, i do what i do, so i probably wont notice a drastic change. 57 years old, and on the run again, im feeling the squeeze from the NWO and aint liking it. wake up people, slavery is on the horizon. yea give the slaves legal pot. wowie zowie, lucky us... fuck them. what our "leaders" need is some mega-doses of purple haze and then come look me in the eye, shake my hand, and call me brother, and lets talk about life, the universe, and everything. oops guess i got carried away. sorry folks. must be that "stinkie spicy spacy" done worked its way back in there behind my eyeballs somewhere. normally i stay in the shadows
read and learn from you guys. and there i was, back online again. and here i be, talkin shit, you guys are the best! i call it open minded twistedness. try: south saturn delta or voodoo soup by jimi hendrix or read up on the father of LSD at the albert hoffmann foundation website and related links.

[curly]

I was talking to my workmate who is from Zanzibar today and he said that when a witchdoctor or whatever needs to perform ceremonial magic rituals they sometimes need a person who cannot be interfered with by spirits at all,what they do is get a couple of young lads and feed them and look after them for a couple of days and also give them a massive bag of weed and they have to smoke the fucking lot all day long.The reason being no spirits either good or bad will come near you when your hammered as you are seen as dirty.

[dmt head]

Hahaha. slodave rocks!

Agreed !!:D

[slodave]

:DAgreed !!:D

agreeed! spice of life for mind expansion enabeling interstellar overdrive and a more intresting, rewarding, and fullfilling existence, and as for those who choose not to partake, out of fear, or closemindedness, or whatever reason, i'm sorry for them. existing/surviving isn't the same as living, and without a little "spice" in ones life, negativity and boredom enters and living becomes repitition and is no longer living but becomes fruitless survival. so roll another one, smile, fasten that belt, open your mind wide, lets go for a ride... one reporters opinion.

[drhemp]

I heard on the News yesterday the propaganda machine against cannabis is working and that despite more liberal attitudes towards gays in the UK, apparently less people support the legalisation of cannabis.

I do however take all reports or surveys and / or anything reported on the BBC with a hefty pinch of salt.

[lewi]

We all know on this forum that honest public opinion counts for nothing while the country is ruled by fascist dictators who control news reports and surveys. The only way forward is to expose the lies produced one by one leaving little room for debate. Untill it is legal the dealers will be laughing all the way to the bank. That money could be used to end poverty house the homeless and create new jobs. Generally speaking it would improve the system and the country for the better.

Its all about having power over another and while adults are treated like children the government is pushing them into buying from criminals. Its like the actions of a disobedient child and the parent who dosent want them to smoke, the child will sneak off and will do it anyway regardless and thats because he has been told not too.

Its insane !

[slodave]

I heard on the News yesterday the propaganda machine against cannabis is working and that despite more liberal attitudes towards gays in the UK, apparently less people support the legalisation of cannabis.

I do however take all reports or surveys and / or anything reported on the BBC with a hefty pinch of salt.

aparently the gay-ass BBC has got their lips on the wrong sort of pipe.

[drhemp]

We all know on this forum that honest public opinion counts for nothing while the country is ruled by fascist dictators who control news reports and surveys. The only way forward is to expose the lies produced one by one leaving little room for debate. Untill it is legal the dealers will be laughing all the way to the bank. That money could be used to end poverty house the homeless and create new jobs. Generally speaking it would improve the system and the country for the better.

Its all about having power over another and while adults are treated like children the government is pushing them into buying from criminals. Its like the actions of a disobedient child and the parent who dosent want them to smoke, the child will sneak off and will do it anyway regardless and thats because he has been told not too.

Its insane !

Great post Lewi, but alas, only assholes in the Government and not wise people like your good self.

[slodave]

We all know on this forum that honest public opinion counts for nothing while the country is ruled by fascist dictators who control news reports and surveys. The only way forward is to expose the lies produced one by one leaving little room for debate. Untill it is legal the dealers will be laughing all the way to the bank. That money could be used to end poverty house the homeless and create new jobs. Generally speaking it would improve the system and the country for the better.

Its all about having power over another and while adults are treated like children the government is pushing them into buying from criminals. Its like the actions of a disobedient child and the parent who dosent want them to smoke, the child will sneak off and will do it anyway regardless and thats because he has been told not too.

Its insane !
money, power, greed, selfishness... all bad, all negative; a sorry ass sad situation. makes no sense. what are they thinking, why? just as easily it could be all good,positive. i dont get it.

[whiterain]

I was talking to my workmate who is from Zanzibar today and he said that when a witchdoctor or whatever needs to perform ceremonial magic rituals they sometimes need a person who cannot be interfered with by spirits at all,what they do is get a couple of young lads and feed them and look after them for a couple of days and also give them a massive bag of weed and they have to smoke the fucking lot all day long.The reason being no spirits either good or bad will come near you when your hammered as you are seen as dirty.

haha bollocks i think your friend is a bit misled. ok it will affect everyone differently but most people would be far more likely to have spiritual encounters after a few spliffs