Urgent advice needed!

[ben black]

Hi - I have long been a reader of David's work and read these board for a while.

However - right now I am in need of urgent advice.

My son ( 17 years old) has just told me that tomorrow (Tuesday ) his school are photographing and FINGERPRINTING ALL PUPILS.

They claim to be doing this to "speed up the service in the canteen". None of the parents have had consent forms for thier under 18's.

My son does not want to be photo'd and fingerprinted and I most certainly do not want him to be either.

He is worried that if he refuses there may be repercussions.

Does anyone know of any specific law that I can quote in order to help with a letter I am drafting that refuses both mine ( as parent ) and my sons consent in this matter?

Any advice greatly appreciated.

For the record - the school in question is St John Payne High - Chelmsford.

[gripit]

a member here succeeded in putting an end to that bullshit for his daughter last week. see this thread (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=69210).

[krakhead]

Welcome Ben! Seems that 'just say no' would be the very first step, then try and contact the local rag - become another 'celebrity Ben'! :D

[hunter77]

Hi - I have long been a reader of David's work and read these board for a while.

However - right now I am in need of urgent advice.

My son ( 17 years old) has just told me that tomorrow (Tuesday ) his school are photographing and FINGERPRINTING ALL PUPILS.

They claim to be doing this to "speed up the service in the canteen". None of the parents have had consent forms for thier under 18's.

My son does not want to be photo'd and fingerprinted and I most certainly do not want him to be either.

He is worried that if he refuses there may be repercussions.

Does anyone know of any specific law that I can quote in order to help with a letter I am drafting that refuses both mine ( as parent ) and my sons consent in this matter?

Any advice greatly appreciated.

For the record - the school in question is St John Payne High - Chelmsford.

just refuse dont let them do it, a mate of mine got arrested and the police told him they didn't need his finger prints as they had got them from when he visted with the cub scouts some 15 or years previous. beware they are sneaky bastards and are definately up to something:(

[ben black]

Hi - I don't want to be a celebrity Ben - I'm just another concerned Ben.

What concerns me is that many of us have seen this coming for a long time.

People like David Icke do the hard part - the research, connecting the dots, looking at possible outcomes and shouting the warnings. In Davids case - suffering immeasurably for it but still standing firm and getting on with trying to open peoples eyes and ears.

We can all feel the tension building.
We all know that something is going to happen.

What we don't know yet is what will happen and when it will happen.

I'm not worried about myself - it's all the people who have absolutely no idea and those who always fall for the bullsh*t that I worry for...

[mystic nomad]

Just say no. Most of their laws work because "people" or "the person" give their consent. I don't believe this is lawful anyway, so by consenting, amongst other things you/your son will be acting unlawfully.

If you get arrested and have dna and fingerprints taken and no charges pursued, we are "lawfully" within our rights to put in a written request to the chief c*nstable that these samples be removed from the records. It is a long drawn out process with many obstacles and they may tell you it has been done and in actual fact maybe taken off the PNC but in my mind will still be on the Home Office database.

There is no law in the land that can "make" you voluntarily give over these personal details unless you have consented to let yourself be arrested under suspicion of, or are bang to rights of a crime.

What repercussions can there be that are worse than already consenting to being guilty of "something" further down the line of life?

I would take the advice of contacting the local paper/radio station though, if for no other reason than to make people aware of your stance, maybe others will take your lead.

Stay true and stand firm. Good luck to you!

[mrmoney]

Haha, this is pretty funny. Fingerprinting to speed up service in the canteen... What a joke...

It isn't really a serious issue. They know who we are. They can have our DNA if they want.. I really don't care. Let's see them try and kill me when i have a gun and my own supply of food..

[unusual_suspect]

Tell you son to say no! If the school take umbridge with his refusal you can back him up. Tell the school that fingerprinting is for criminals and they do not have your permission or your son's to store this highly sensitive data. No IT system is safe, I'm sure you can think of a few examples where senitive personal data has been "lost".

You know what to do, good luck!

Edit - you can write a letter for your son to take in and also call the school, aslk for an appointment with the head teacher to discuss your concerns.

[ben black]

Thanks to all.

I have written a letter for my son to take.

He also insisted that I printed out several more blank templates for his concerned friends to use.

The letter is a declaration by the pupil that they expressly forbid thier fingerprints and photographs to be taken against thier will - and without the signatures of the parents.

I have a seperate one that I, as parent, expressly forbid the taking of his photograph and fingerprints.

I insisted that he doesn't look like a ringleader in any shape way or form and to make his protest a quiet but firm one.


The "canteen" reason is just sheer bullsh*t. They are just outside the town centre and it is cheaper for the kids to nip to any of the shops for sandwiches etc. Judging by the amount of school uniforms in town at lunchtime - I doubt many of the kids use the school canteen at all.
I might get my son to try and find out how many meals the school serves a day....

[joyce7]

Ihave seen this going to happen in a local school near me Cholrton high it was in the manchester evening news 22nd june.I have not had my last 4 children jabbed and have refused to.I have told them any of this flu thing to refuse in school.They seem to be like minded and so just tell their teachers and friends that they have their rights to refuse and they need my permission before anything.Just stand your ground and refuse.

[ben black]

well....when it came time for the fingerprinting / photographing, my son gave his letter to his form teacher who immediately raised her voice and told him that he was letting everybody down and that he was to go straight to the headmaster.

Off he went - and the headmaster proceeded to tell my son that he was the only one to object. My son said that this was because the school had neglected to inform any parents that thier children were being "numbered and catalogued" ( my sons words not mine!!).

The headmaster asked my son to go home for the rest of the day - but my son was already coming home for the rest of the day as he had no more lessons after lunch.

He has gone back to school today so I am waiting to see if anything else has been said.

Turns out that this school has been sending staff on Common Purpose training days too.....

[lottie]

Turns out that this school has been sending staff on Common Purpose training days too.....

:eek: *ALARM BELLS!!!*

Have you rung the school and asked why the teacher singled him out and accused him of letting the school down? or spoken to the headmaster about his behaviour towards your son?!

[floewyz]

Hi Ben,

Stay strong, just absolutely refuse. Dont forget to speak to other parents. If we don't stand and be counted now our children will just accept all this fingerprinting and DNA testing. If we and our children challenge this, we will help to stop microchipped generations. Our children need to see us standing up to a system which will enslave them. We are all they have.
Good luck

[ben black]

Alarm bells indeed Lottie.

I haven't rung the school as I know I would get angry and run the risk of putting my son in a bad position. He has 1 year of 6th form left then takes his A levels. I can't risk giving anyone a reason to single him out in what may be the most important year of his education.

Floewyz - I completely agree that kids need to made aware of why these things are being done. My son is watching the online of David Icke's Haltemprice presentation video and reading Naomi Klein's "Shock Doctorine".

I keep hearing little gasps of "no way" and know that he is getting a grasp of how things "work"

[texdallas]

Good luck Ben just stay cool and decline.

[yozhik]

well....when it came time for the fingerprinting / photographing, my son gave his letter to his form teacher who immediately raised her voice and told him that he was letting everybody down and that he was to go straight to the headmaster.

Off he went - and the headmaster proceeded to tell my son that he was the only one to object. My son said that this was because the school had neglected to inform any parents that thier children were being "numbered and catalogued" ( my sons words not mine!!).

The headmaster asked my son to go home for the rest of the day - but my son was already coming home for the rest of the day as he had no more lessons after lunch.

He has gone back to school today so I am waiting to see if anything else has been said.

Turns out that this school has been sending staff on Common Purpose training days too.....

Sue them.

They deprived your son an education for exercising his unalienable Human Rights.
Under MANY international treaties, conventions and laws; that is illegal.

Also, re: Common Purpose ... get the names of the teachers who have been indoctrinated and who have "graduated", then make sure your son NEVER gets them as his teachers.

Write to the school and inform them of such. :)

[smoke n mirrors]

Thanks to all.

I have written a letter for my son to take.

He also insisted that I printed out several more blank templates for his concerned friends to use.

The letter is a declaration by the pupil that they expressly forbid thier fingerprints and photographs to be taken against thier will - and without the signatures of the parents.

I have a seperate one that I, as parent, expressly forbid the taking of his photograph and fingerprints.

I insisted that he doesn't look like a ringleader in any shape way or form and to make his protest a quiet but firm one.


The "canteen" reason is just sheer bullsh*t. They are just outside the town centre and it is cheaper for the kids to nip to any of the shops for sandwiches etc. Judging by the amount of school uniforms in town at lunchtime - I doubt many of the kids use the school canteen at all.
I might get my son to try and find out how many meals the school serves a day....

Have you thought of contacting the PTA and the board of governors? Its disgusting that parents aren't being notified and there can only be one reason for that...they know that parents will not agree and once the data is collected the deed is done. Data will never be removed from the system. I doubt that any data they collect from any system is truly deleted. I would imagine that data is simply moved to a covert database.

We all really need to dig in for what rights we still have, and fight to regain the ones they have already removed!

Geezz I have really had enough of this shit.

.

[smoke n mirrors]

Hi Ben,

Stay strong, just absolutely refuse. Dont forget to speak to other parents. If we don't stand and be counted now our children will just accept all this fingerprinting and DNA testing. If we and our children challenge this, we will help to stop microchipped generations. Our children need to see us standing up to a system which will enslave them. We are all they have.
Good luck

Ditto that.

I don't have kids, but I have no intention of letting things go to shit for those that follow behind me.

If my grandparents knew, what they were fighting for in the wars and voting for the common market swindle, they would never have done what they did.

I shall not be falling into the same snake pit that my forebears did.

.

[smoke n mirrors]

@ Ben Black

I just posted this on another thread and then thought it maybe of use to you also.

Your son might like to watch this its very entertaining and it will help explain the pitfalls hidden in technology. It should be part of the curriculum! IMHO

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=search_playlists&search_query=privacy+is+dead+get+over+it Play list.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vsxxsrn2Tfs&feature=PlayList&p=ACA43C7BDB02D1F9&index=0&playnext=1


.

[friendsinthesky]

Hi - I have long been a reader of David's work and read these board for a while.

However - right now I am in need of urgent advice.

My son ( 17 years old) has just told me that tomorrow (Tuesday ) his school are photographing and FINGERPRINTING ALL PUPILS.

They claim to be doing this to "speed up the service in the canteen". None of the parents have had consent forms for thier under 18's.



Holy madness. Did you sign a contract to allow this outlandish behaviour? NO? I do hope your letter wasn't long and provoking. A short simple, " I do not consent to my son being photographed and fingerprinted by the school without my/our written consent signed by me/us (the parents)".

[bsmurph83]

Note: your fingerprints or your son's fingerprints are your/his PERSONAL PROPERTY. you don't just go giving your property away for free do you? so you ask them for consideration - what will they provide you of substance in exchange for the prints? Notify them that the cost of your son's prints are $50, 000 (the point is not to get money but to discourage them pursuing it).

also, where is the valid, legally enforceable contract that binds you to do this? doesn't exist. point it out. we need to remember to ask to see the contract (which never exists).

your son did the people of the world a favour with his ability to question and challenge. what a great parent he has! keep it up.

[dharmic one]

What is expressed renders the implied silent.

These people have offered you and your son a contract by offering you and him the luxurious and wonderful chance to take part in a fantastic problem reaction solution exercise in which we can obtain everyone's data for "protection from themselves......woooooooooo" the bogey man is coming to get us again......

Seriously though. Just write to them and state categorically that they do not have you or your son's consent to perform such an obscenely intrusive process, regardless of how important they view it to be. You and your son are not criminals and will not be treated as such. They will attampt to further make you an offer, no matter how they threaten you simply accept what they are saying with your own conditions attached. Get them to understand that "The burden of proof lies with he who affirms, not he who denies

In other words, if they say you have to do this, tell them to prove it......

simple.

They will never be able to because no matter what statute they quote to you you can state that it applies only to your son's person. This is very important. The person is an artificially created entity that exists in association with your son, it is not your son.

i hope this helps for now. Do everything in writing and get witnesses if you have to.....maybe post the letters recorded delivery so that they cannot deny that they were served.

Good Luck!!!!!

[friendsinthesky]

Notify them that the cost of your son's prints are $50, 000 (the point is not to get money but to discourage them pursuing it).



I'm getting tired of hearing this exteme amount of billing figure. Have you bsmurph83 or know of anyone who has collected on such a price tag? Just tell the fuckers you do not consent.

[catnap]

And also if they touch your son it will be assualt which is a criminal offence.

Just stay strong and tell them NO.

Good luck and keep us posted.

[dharmic one]

I'm getting tired of hearing this exteme amount of billing figure. Have you bsmurph83 or know of anyone who has collected on such a price tag? Just tell the fuckers you do not consent.

I feel that you might have overlooked something here brother.....

Originally Posted by bsmurph83 View Post
Notify them that the cost of your son's prints are $50, 000 (the point is not to get money but to discourage them pursuing it).

I believe the fee schedule to be yet another tool designed to discourage offending parties from attempting to harm you or your interests in any way, after all....by what criteria do you feel must be adhered to when valuing your own biological property?

the fact that you have the free will to even decide to type a post makes you an invaluable being to me!! For you and I and th 6.8 billion other humans on this planet are rare in nature.....think about it...of the hundreds of millions of species on this planet only one (or possibly two!!!....) species can even contemplate using the internet like you and me!!! it is difficult to put a price on such a thing but equally difficult to obtain obscene levels of damages from a party - which I think is what you are saying......and I agree with that.

I feel that the fee schedule is not "get rich quick" scheme by any means...it merely informs the potential offending party that to contravene your rights could cause them considerable damage...and rightfully so if they claim to have the authority to take and store valuable property like fingerprints.

Peace all and one.....

[scottmurray]

this is why all school meals in scotland are free cos its only for the free meals inengland/wales

[ben black]

OK - I had a very good look around the school website and found this

http://www.chromium05.plus.com/ScreenShot188.jpg

This is a screenshot of the news page

http://www.chromium05.plus.com/ScreenShot189.jpg

here are the pdf's

How to implement biometrics (http://www.sjp.essex.sch.uk/user/59/57109.pdf)

Optical scanning explained (http://www.sjp.essex.sch.uk/user/59/57108.pdf)

Cashless catering (http://www.sjp.essex.sch.uk/user/59/57107.pdf)


Please remember - there were no letters sent to parents. This info is tucked away on the school website - how many parents really look at the school website? I guess this was so the school could at least say that they made the info "public".

I have sent a letter to the headteacher and the PTA members. If I get any response I will post that too.

[cafetimes1991]

Hi - I have long been a reader of David's work and read these board for a while.

However - right now I am in need of urgent advice.

My son ( 17 years old) has just told me that tomorrow (Tuesday ) his school are photographing and FINGERPRINTING ALL PUPILS.

They claim to be doing this to "speed up the service in the canteen". None of the parents have had consent forms for thier under 18's.

My son does not want to be photo'd and fingerprinted and I most certainly do not want him to be either.

He is worried that if he refuses there may be repercussions.

Does anyone know of any specific law that I can quote in order to help with a letter I am drafting that refuses both mine ( as parent ) and my sons consent in this matter?

Any advice greatly appreciated.

For the record - the school in question is St John Payne High - Chelmsford.

Sorry about this, man. I'm seventeen too. Our school doesn't have a canteen (just a tuck shop which sells white bread and refined sugar), but they'd like our fingerprints anyway. :mad:

[ben black]

^^ Have they given a reason why?

[cafetimes1991]

^^ Have they given a reason why?

Oh sorry, I should have written (typed?) that better. I mean they would like it anyway if they even thought of it. That's why I've been quiet about conspiracies lately; I don't want to give the principal (who has a huge poster of Obama in his office and called David Icke a ''fruit cake'') and co. any ideas. :D

When the CCTV cameras went up, I was the only student to complain, as far as I know. :(

[yozhik]

Please remember - there were no letters sent to parents. This info is tucked away on the school website - how many parents really look at the school website? I guess this was so the school could at least say that they made the info "public".

I have sent a letter to the headteacher and the PTA members. If I get any response I will post that too.

Cashless catering?
From what I can comprehend, this is an "offer".
This is an attempt to contract with you under their terms for a cashless environment ... which is VERY Common Purpose!!
Anyway ... you do NOT have to contract under these terms and conditions.

"Payment" can take many forms; the key is that both parties have to agree in order for it to be deemed "payment".

You can "offer" to pay, as per normal, with Bank of England promissory notes.
They may refuse to contract under those conditions.
They can "offer" a cashless system as an alternate payment system.
You can refuse to contract under those conditions.

No big deal; two parties unable to agree on conditions of contract is not unique ... it happens all the time.
The key here is identifying their attempt to contract and for you to not give tacit compliance or agreement by remaining silent.

Serve Notice that you decline their offer to contract under those terms.
Give them remedy by offering to contract using the UK standard of payment; BoE promissory notes.
That's also an important point to make clear; it is the UK standard of payment.

Now, one more important issue to consider.
Is the canteen out sourced?
Or is it owned by the school?
If it is outsourced, there is nothing preventing or barring you from contracting independently with them, using BoE promissory notes as payment, independent of the school contract with them.

[hagbard_celine]

Thanks to all.

I have written a letter for my son to take.

He also insisted that I printed out several more blank templates for his concerned friends to use.

The letter is a declaration by the pupil that they expressly forbid thier fingerprints and photographs to be taken against thier will - and without the signatures of the parents.

I have a seperate one that I, as parent, expressly forbid the taking of his photograph and fingerprints.

I insisted that he doesn't look like a ringleader in any shape way or form and to make his protest a quiet but firm one.


The "canteen" reason is just sheer bullsh*t. They are just outside the town centre and it is cheaper for the kids to nip to any of the shops for sandwiches etc. Judging by the amount of school uniforms in town at lunchtime - I doubt many of the kids use the school canteen at all.
I might get my son to try and find out how many meals the school serves a day....

Nice, one, Ben.:) I've been through this same shit and it's good more and more people are getting wise to it.