Malvern Messages discusses "Fire the Grid" VID

[john white]

301 Moved Permanently

John White and Mark Brown get together and share impressions and observations about “Fire the Grid”, the recent mass meditation event. Amongst other things, John discusses how he got involved in Fire the Grid and how he researched to discover that Shelley Yates core story was true on the five sense level, and Mark shares a Taoism point of view on energy and intention. Together they then discuss the challenge we face of shifting from truth seekers to truth wielders and apply our knowledge to come together and do our part to create a new harmonious consciousness for all of humanity

So an interesting afternoon chat!

Masses of additional information on Fire the Grid and related topics are to be found on this link to Malvern Messages, including John’s research

http://malvernmessages.free-forums.org/malvernmessages-forum-26.html

Picture quality breaks up a fair bit due to the torrential storm going on outside (recorded as Britain flooded on 20/07/07) but sound is good throughout. If you enjoy this, please check out other Malvern Messages films

And yet again, major props to Dondaz!

[neutron flux]

John, I don't think telling people to not question or doubt information such as FTG is very good advice as it seems imperative in the times we live in.

The story is true. It doesn't make a lick of difference as Shelly is clearly being manipulated. To what end?

The whole explaination of being positive and energy seems to be a buffer against the "predator" mind. We're a collection of programs and the key to identifying the real "I" to the the myriad of little "i"'s is through self observation and a cold hard look at ourselves with the help of others - not just feeling positive and patting each other on the back. I'm not saying don't be postive -but it seems like you're just papering over the cracks and pretending negativity doesn't exist, so it seems.

Putting that aside, let's just say we all got together and meditated and felt really good and kept "Firing the Grid".

What's gonna happen?

Psychopaths will suddenly grow a conscience? They don't think they're doing anything wrong, they're just "creating their own reality". CCTV cameras and the surveillance grip on society will just melt away? Fascist laws will dissolve with our love beams? The bombs being dropped on innocent civilians will turn into "love bombs", showering people with gifts of flowers and food instead of depleted Uranium? If only.

Just for starters, common knowledge of psychopathy and their methods would be far more productive than just sitting around wishfully thinking. They, after all, are the reason that we have such hideous and horrible events happening right now on this burning planet.

Just don't expect Shelly's "Light Beings" to tell you that. They'll have you on a wild goose chase consisting of blocking all the "bad" stuff out and placing your head in the sand all the while dreaming of a better world.

[john white]

Are your comments based on having watched the film?

Otherwise we don't have an equal level on which to correspond

I don't think telling people to not question or doubt information... is very good advice

Frankly, I don't recognise this statement as in any way relating to my support for "Fire The Grid". I would never tell fellow Humans to stop thinking: why would I? But I will happily admit to telling my fellow humans not to fear: always!

My support for "Fire the Grid", and anything else, such as my continued support for David Icke, only has ONE foundation:

My trust in myself in balance with All That Is

[neutron flux]

Yes, I watched it and what you quoted me on was in to relation to what you say at about 10.15 minutes in where you say that where people had picked up on small parts and decide not to take part, that these people were using this as an excuse and challenged by it when in fact this can be down to objectively looking at the material. Also at 21 minutes in you talk about changing from being questioners and doubters and go on about not finding the differences in material but what we agree on - but how can you come to some sort of objective truth? Nothing can change because people will not be co-linear in their thinking, people will just gloss over the glaring red flags in material and just pick and choose what they feel is right, when those aspects of the material would have been put there as a hook in the first place.

This FTG being a case in point.

[john white]

but how can you come to some sort of objective truth?

Do you believe there is an "objective truth"?

Or is mind simply a construct from our time in "the matrix"?

I feel that we hold onto the notion that there is objective truth, somewhere out there, waiting for us to find it.. but that really there is only subjective truth: it all depends on your point of view

But when we cease to look outside and look within, we discover that we are always the centre of our own consciousness, that we are the calm at the eye of the storm: then it is not the objectiveness or subjectiveness of ideas which is important: but awareness of where we are looking at ideas from

And thats what this "awakening" process is all about: knowing ourselves, trusting ourselves: being empowered as the result

Clearly I'm not telling people not to think or reason: I'm also not telling people what they have to do or not do: But I am telling people that we have to start coming together sooner or later if we trust ourselves that we are able to make a difference for the better at all, which is obvious common sense, and that the objections of the mind are what we have to get into perspective when they are unnessacary barriers to us actually co-operating

[reptilianshapeshifter]

had a quick scan at the video. I'll watch it properly later.

you should get a nice LCD monitor though to replace that little old 17" or whatever it is :D

[neutron flux]

Do you believe there is an "objective truth"?


Yes, but it's not a belief, it's viewing the world as it is.

I feel that we hold onto the notion that there is objective truth, somewhere out there, waiting for us to find it.. but that really there is only subjective truth: it all depends on your point of view


No, you can view the world and yourself objectively by removing any "sacred cows" or limited belief systems, look at the available data, thus an objective truth comes into play. There's always an objective truth to what has happened or is occuring in the world, or with ourselves. How can there not be an objective point of reference?

If we take your view that there is only subjective truth then Bush isn't a psychopath he's just a human that's lost his way and needs love. Objectively is that true? No. The banking system isn't a scam, its set up to help us. True? No. The Iraq war was to give the people of Iraq democracy and freedom. True? No. War is peace etc.

If you look at all those examples then there is objective truth to what is really going on, and you can apply the same to FTG if you look at all the data and cross reference with other such material to come to some sort of conclusion along with critical analysis.

But when we cease to look outside and look within, we discover that we are always the centre of our own consciousness, that we are the calm at the eye of the storm: then it is not the objectiveness or subjectiveness of ideas which is important: but awareness of where we are looking at ideas from


Again, are you looking at awareness from a subjective or objective point of view. Knowledge base also plays a factor.

And thats what this "awakening" process is all about: knowing ourselves, trusting ourselves: being empowered as the result



I'm curious as to how you know yourself and trust yourself.

the objections of the mind are what we have to get into perspective when they are unnessacary barriers to us actually co-operating

The objections from me stem from the material and the "light beings".

[john white]

had a quick scan at the video. I'll watch it properly later.

you should get a nice LCD monitor though to replace that little old 17" or whatever it is :D

LOL! It's funny you say that, I was offered a larger monitor last night!

[john white]

How can there not be an objective point of reference?

Becuase its a belief system: in order to objectively see "the world as is" one has to subjectively believe one is capable of that level of observation: clearly this is in fact an illusion

But we can know ourselves always as a constant centre of awareness, adapting the fluid totality of our consciousness as we gain experiance of processing the feedback from the world around us, rather than as a rigid mental definition of the programmed mind and the ego egg shell

If we take your view that there is only subjective truth then Bush isn't a psychopath he's just a human that's lost his way and needs love. Objectively is that true? No. The banking system isn't a scam, its set up to help us. True? No. The Iraq war was to give the people of Iraq democracy and freedom. True? No. War is peace etc.

The facts are that all the judgments of humanity are constantly revised: one generations hero is the next generations monster. Deosnt George bush and all other negatively imbalanced people desperately need Love? You would withhold that from him? Then what do you become? What he doesn't need is his pimply butt sat on a seat of "power", becuase hes simply not fit for the responsibility, but that is quite a different issue, and the fact that he got there is nothing more than a symptom of the much larger malaise afflicting what we know as "civilisation" due to the mass abdication of self-responsibility, that created the need for a single man with so much "power" in the first place. Those involved in the banking power pyramid may well justify what they do as nessacary to prevent chaos, and thus see themselves as being there to "help us". Perhaps the result of the Iraq War is that the Iraqi people will cast off the American/British invaders and develop themsevles a whole new form of government that empowers them: perhaps we might do the same: do you know that we won't?

And if you do: isnt that also simply a belief that you know that objectively, when really it is a subjective viewpoint based on your current awareness?

Hence the root of all wisdom is admitting freely how little we know:

QED therefore: we can only comprehend subjective truth, but can select from those selective truths what has the higher possibility of leading to objective understanding

The bottom line is: man is not God

[john white]

Anyone else have thoughts to share after watching this?

[lifeofbrian]

Anyone else have thoughts to share after watching this?

I would watch it, if you can give me one good reason why amateurs meddling with ley lines ("the grid") is a good idea at this point in time?

Do you understand the meaning of the legend about St George slaying "the dragon" for example? Or other "dragon slayers"?

Are you aware of the uncanny similarities between leys and dragon lines, John White?

Do you really understand what you promote?

Churches/temples/mosques/monuments like Stonehenge and the Pyramids built on top of the meridians and vortexes of the Earth (the leys and dragon lines) have by-passed the natural flow and are harnessing the energy flowing; letting it into our environment, warped.

By "firing the grid" you boost the outlets. Expect more fundamentalism and crazy stuff. More polarity. Good job. Not.

[john white]

Ah but Life of Brian: If I told you I knew what I was doing: would you believe me?

Perhaps watching the vid might help you ascertain whether my competance might be credible

[lifeofbrian]

Ah but Life of Brian: If I told you I knew what I was doing: would you believe me?

Perhaps watching the vid might help you ascertain whether my competance might be credible

I know enough about you to know you do not know what you are doing when you promote firing the grid.

More importantly; I know how they leys and dragon lines work.

[john white]

I know enough about you to know you do not know what you are doing when you promote firing the grid.

More importantly; I know how they leys and dragon lines work.

LOL! Well thanks for that Brian

Especially for wonderfully confirming one of the points on the video, which of course you won't know becuase you havn't watched it.... and have given yourself a rationale not to do so ;)

Your welcome to post on about leys and dragon lines, though I don't reckon anyone even at the BSD would claim to know everything about how they work...

[soglad]

I loved watching that video of Shelly Yates telling her story, she resonated to me as being true, so I won't argue with that.

Although, I was informed of her too late so I never got to actually "fire the grid", but I meditate everyday, so I don't really need a specific day to try heal the world, every day is good.

It's always nice to hear you speak John. You've got a good way of expressing yourself!

[lifeofbrian]

LOL! Well thanks for that Brian

Especially for wonderfully confirming one of the points on the video, which of course you won't know becuase you havn't watched it.... and have given yourself a rationale not to do so ;)

Your welcome to post on about leys and dragon lines, though I don't reckon anyone even at the BSD would claim to know everything about how they work...

Laugh all you want. I don't find this funny.

Once you travel the world and talk personally to the people of the indigenous cultures more in the know than you, neither will you.

I am so sick and tired of damn New Age idiots with their heads up their arses.

[lifeofbrian]

LOL! Well thanks for that Brian

Especially for wonderfully confirming one of the points on the video, which of course you won't know becuase you havn't watched it.... and have given yourself a rationale not to do so ;)

Your welcome to post on about leys and dragon lines, though I don't reckon anyone even at the BSD would claim to know everything about how they work...

Let me ask you a few questions John White, just to check what you "know":

On what dates and in which months is work on the Michael-lines beneficial for

1) conflicts, political
2) conflicts, religious
3) conflicts, interpersonal
4) conflicts, interdimensional

On what dates and in which months is work on the Mary-lines beneficial for

1) mergers, industrial
2) mergers, political
3) mergers, religious
4) mergers, spiritual

On what dates and months are magicians advised not to work on the grid for personal safety?

Which timelines are more beneficial than others in respective seasons and what for?

What specific dates are reserved for sacrifices?



You give me the answers to these questions John White and I might trust you to know what you are doing when you promote "firing the grid" as if it is some kind of fun on a Saturday night out.

[neutron flux]

Becuase its a belief system: in order to objectively see "the world as is" one has to subjectively believe one is capable of that level of observation: clearly this is in fact an illusion


The more data you collect, the the more that you can see the world as it is. At this point the world's on fire.

Deosnt George bush and all other negatively imbalanced people desperately need Love?

No, they crave power and control.

You would withhold that from him? Then what do you become?

I would avoid contact with such a person, making me a person who refrains from interaction with psychological deviants.

Perhaps the result of the Iraq War is that the Iraqi people will cast off the American/British invaders and develop themsevles a whole new form of government that empowers them: perhaps we might do the same: do you know that we won't?


As the future is open, no one can say with certainty.

Hence the root of all wisdom is admitting freely how little we know:



Of course, that's why knowledge and data is needed.

[john white]

Let me ask you a few questions John White, just to check what you "know":

On what dates and in which months is work on the Michael-lines beneficial for

1) conflicts, political
2) conflicts, religious
3) conflicts, interpersonal
4) conflicts, interdimensional

On what dates and in which months is work on the Mary-lines beneficial for

1) mergers, industrial
2) mergers, political
3) mergers, religious
4) mergers, spiritual

On what dates and months are magicians advised not to work on the grid for personal safety?

Which timelines are more beneficial than others in respective seasons and what for?

What specific dates are reserved for sacrifices?



You give me the answers to these questions John White and I might trust you to know what you are doing when you promote "firing the grid" as if it is some kind of fun on a Saturday night out.

LOL! And from which book would you get your answers to test me by?

On the level you are approaching, its like Astrology: Matrix rules, Matrix tools

"Fire the Grid" is a metaphor: a mental map: an excuse to keep the inauthentic programmed self occupied to allow a path for consciousness without to talk with consciousness within. Like all maps it is not the thing itself, it is an artisitc creation of mind, an invite to share

ALL is energy: ALL is source:

It is enough to know where I am and what I am focused upon

Knowledge of Energy is knowledge of Consiousness is knowledge of Source: thats why its the most liberating knowledge of all: it IS Divine FM!

And that means it extends far beyond the remit of any group of priests or shamans or druids: this knowledge is the birthright of all manifest humanity to grow into awakeness in

And it doesnt belong to particular people: it belongs to all of God's Children: its the only way it can be, if humanities consciousness is not going to fall

[john white]

Doesnt George bush and all other negatively imbalanced people desperately need Love?

No, they crave power and control.

You would withhold that from him? Then what do you become?

I would avoid contact with such a person, making me a person who refrains from interaction with psychological deviants.


Well then, you are ensuring there are things about yourself that you will never learn.

I trust people to be true to their vibration: one might say their natures: I expect the severley imbalanced to act severely imbalanced: but they are still people: I do not Fear them, and I can understand them, which means I can forgive them, and help them: all of that is summarised as: I can Love them. And I can do that 100% whilst also not being soft on then 1 inch

This is inevitable when one owns ones own potential:

For the Manifest Human has an infinite capacity for Love like no other capacity: even the darkest Hate fails and crumbles in the end, yet Love never does, for it is the very Joy-of-Being, the very heart of conscious extistance

[bigus_dickus]

i think that that video could have been made much shorter. i mean that you're not saying much, but mostly repeating the same things over and over. and it is about a mass ritual that took place on the 17th, because that's what it was. for me it was a normal good day, as everyday is, not because i am a lucky bastard, but because i am not a self hating bitch except sometimes that don't last too long :)

anyway, that whole thing gave me the impression that it was fear based (amygdala based if you catch my drift) and as hard as i try to think otherwise to give it a chance, it still is a fear based reaction and not an inner intent. right now at this moment, there are thousands of people, even more than those who were meditating on that day, praying, meditating, wishing not for themselves, but for all, some doing "light work", some are religious, some have agendas. but they are pretty much ignored aren't they. however there are more powerful rituals that you can participate in if you crave for this experience, but what matters is why do you do it?

so, why? you didn't do anything different than millions of christians praying on easter sunday, or millions of muslims praying altogether in mecca. actually what you did was far lesser in proportion. what's the reason behind it?

i think that "wishful thinking" is a term used in mockery for faithful people. i would call it "thinkfull wishing" and it really works, but it depends on the reason.

as you say in the video, we the simple people are the only ones who can bring a change to the system, but the reason is because the system is our mirror. and the PTB are making all kinds of experiences possible as we choose them, so it's a personal and collective choice that comes from us and not necessarily dictated by someone else. as long as there is so much injustice going on in the world, people fighting over oil and soon over water and other resources, over money and energy and power and control, this collective meditation thing is a reaction to our selves (and to our guilt), not because of our desire of freedom, but because of the fear of its lack. freedom (and happiness and joy and love) is not some result, but a choice. only choice can be an efficient cause, a reaction is not choice, it is biased by seemingly 'external' reality.

and by the way, here is an article i found on the shelley yates incident:


Mother thanks 'wingless angels' for brave rescue

Richard Foot
National Post

Thursday, November 21, 2002

HALIFAX - It seems extraordinary that four-year-old Evan Grace is
alive. Yet today he lies in a Halifax hospital -- breathing on his
own, his eyes wide open -- with Shelley Yates, his mother, sitting at
his side.

Mrs. Yates and her son owe their lives to good fortune and the
courage of strangers who launched a daring rescue after their car
flipped off a Nova Scotia highway last week and sank nose-first into
a flooded, roadside swamp.

"The cold water took me fast," she said. "I felt myself slipping
away ... My last thoughts were to miraculously find my sweet baby so
we could at least die together."

Yesterday, Mrs. Yates made her first public comments about the rescue.

In a letter published in two Halifax newspapers, she thanked the
dozens of city residents who helped bring her son back to life -- in
particular the "wingless angels," as she called them, who found the
sinking car and "pulled us from death's clutches."

Mark Hoadley is one of those "angels." Yesterday, he said in an
interview that he and his friends are not heroes, just ordinary
people who reacted, "one hopes, like anyone else would," after
stumbling upon calamity.

Mrs. Yates, 37, was driving with her son last Thursday on a two-lane
highway on the outskirts of Halifax. Days of torrential rains had
soaked the city and flooded the large ponds on each side of the
highway, one of which was pouring across the road. When Mrs. Yates'
Ford Taurus hit the shallow flood, it hydroplaned into the guardrail
and off the highway, landing upside down on the surface of the pond.

The mother began to panic, however, when she realized her car was
sinking in the pond. Water was rushing in and neither her doors nor
her windows would open because the electrical accessories had short-
circuited.

As Mrs. Yates prepared to die, Mr. Hoadley sped past in his pickup.
The co-owner of a construction business, he spotted two friends --
Paddy Hilchie, his business partner, and Jeff Winters, a Halifax
police officer -- driving in the other direction. He called Mr.
Hilchie on his cellphone to say hello.

Their conversation had barely started when Mr. Hoadley noticed the
sinking car, told his buddies what he had seen, and hung up to call
for help on the 911 emergency line. Mr. Hilchie and Mr. Winters
turned around and met Mr. Hoadley on the roadside overlooking the
accident.

Mr. Winters, a paramedic, stayed on shore while his friends, who are
in their 40s, swam into almost three metres of frigid water. With Mr.
Hilchie helping his buddy from the surface, Mr. Hoadley dove to see
what he could find. After several attempts he managed to open the
driver's door and came face to face with an unconscious Mrs. Yates,
strapped into her seat with the seat belt jammed.

A crowd was gathering on shore. One man threw Mr. Hoadley a
pocketknife to cut the seat belt. Taking a deep breath, Mr. Hoadley
dove back down, his feet hooked into the seat belt for purchase.
Before he began cutting, the belt somehow popped open.

"So I went back up for air and went down again and basically grabbed
her by the hair and jacket and pulled her up and gave her to Paddy,"
Mr. Hoadley said.

The men carried a lifeless Mrs. Yates to shore, where Mr. Winters
began resuscitation efforts. Mr. Hoadley and another man returned to
the water to search for others in the submerged car. They found no
one, but before they could climb out of the pond, Mrs. Yates came to
life.

"Do you have my baby," she asked.

"Jeff hollered out, 'There's a baby in the car,' " Mr. Hoadley
said. "At that point, all hell broke loose for us. We tried
everything we could to find him but the water was so murky we just
couldn't see anything."

Someone on shore had summoned a boom truck from a nearby industrial
yard. The truck arrived, hooked on to the car and raised it from the
pond. Little Evan, whose mother had released him from his car seat,
had become wedged in the shelf between the rear seats and the rear
window. As the water rushed out of the vehicle, he came flying out.

He and his mother were taken to hospital as were Mr. Hoadley and Mr.
Hilchie, both suffering from hypothermia.

Mr. Hoadley said he cannot understand how Evan survived. He believes
the little boy was under water for 15 to 20 minutes before being
rescued.

"We did everything we could to help and I'm proud of that. But we're
not heroes," Mr. Hoadley said. "That little fella, coming back from
what he's been through -- he's the hero."

Evan's condition was upgraded to fair from critical
yesterday. "There's no brain damage.... He's up and around," RCMP
spokesman Peter Marshall said.

[roxanna222]

id like to re watch the video frame by frame

[king]

John, I don't think telling people to not question or doubt information such as FTG is very good advice as it seems imperative in the times we live in.

The story is true. It doesn't make a lick of difference as Shelly is clearly being manipulated. To what end?

The whole explaination of being positive and energy seems to be a buffer against the "predator" mind. We're a collection of programs and the key to identifying the real "I" to the the myriad of little "i"'s is through self observation and a cold hard look at ourselves with the help of others - not just feeling positive and patting each other on the back. I'm not saying don't be postive -but it seems like you're just papering over the cracks and pretending negativity doesn't exist, so it seems.

Putting that aside, let's just say we all got together and meditated and felt really good and kept "Firing the Grid".

What's gonna happen?

Psychopaths will suddenly grow a conscience? They don't think they're doing anything wrong, they're just "creating their own reality". CCTV cameras and the surveillance grip on society will just melt away? Fascist laws will dissolve with our love beams? The bombs being dropped on innocent civilians will turn into "love bombs", showering people with gifts of flowers and food instead of depleted Uranium? If only.

Just for starters, common knowledge of psychopathy and their methods would be far more productive than just sitting around wishfully thinking. They, after all, are the reason that we have such hideous and horrible events happening right now on this burning planet.

Just don't expect Shelly's "Light Beings" to tell you that. They'll have you on a wild goose chase consisting of blocking all the "bad" stuff out and placing your head in the sand all the while dreaming of a better world.

my sentiments too. that is just wishfull thinking.
and, let's not forget the question
to whom do you really give your energy when you are "firing a grid"?

[roxanna222]

28;53 on the video the man with short hair mentions his involvement with one of the live concerts to feed africa. ok he says the enery enormous, im sure of that loads were there watched and made it happen etc.. he said and that fed the africans. RED LIGHT!! Did it?? Ok hmmm a meal maybe?? One meal per person on one fuckin day? While the rest of us eat whatever and even buy too much and throw away!! NO. No one was nourished. The people in Tanzania TO -FUCKING -DAY ARE STARVING!! Who the fuck was fed??? WHO???? A TOKEN FEW? A DOZEN PERHAPS GIVEN SOMETHING TO EAT IN FRONT OF CAMARAS? SO WE THINK THEY HAVE FOOD AND EAT?? That comment is a sorry one from that man. HE COULD BE IN BONOS GANG SURE HE WOULD TAKE HIM ON BOARD.

[king]

wow, what a story "wingless angels" is!

but, you won't hear that in MSM that pumps fear hate and despair!

[roxanna222]

To be fair great points but I cant help to see the flaws. Not that the whole is one, I do not know.

[john white]

wow, what a story "wingless angels" is!

but, you won't hear that in MSM that pumps fear hate and despair!

my sentiments too. that is just wishfull thinking.
and, let's not forget the question
to whom do you really give your energy when you are "firing a grid"?


Your really covering the bases with your comments there King...

[john white]

28;53 on the video the man with short hair mentions his involvement with one of the live concerts to feed africa. ok he says the enery enormous, im sure of that loads were there watched and made it happen etc.. he said and that fed the africans. RED LIGHT!! Did it?? Ok hmmm a meal maybe?? One meal per person on one fuckin day? While the rest of us eat whatever and even buy too much and throw away!! NO. No one was nourished. The people in Tanzania TO -FUCKING -DAY ARE STARVING!! Who the fuck was fed??? WHO???? A TOKEN FEW? A DOZEN PERHAPS GIVEN SOMETHING TO EAT IN FRONT OF CAMARAS? SO WE THINK THEY HAVE FOOD AND EAT?? That comment is a sorry one from that man. HE COULD BE IN BONOS GANG SURE HE WOULD TAKE HIM ON BOARD.

Nah, your not being fair there, immediately after Live Aid (1985) masses of food was shipped out to Ethiopia, but the real reasons for the famine never came to light on the MSM (best land going to Coffee production, and even more sinister beneath that), and as both Darren and Mark said, it wasnt for long. And Marks far to savvy to be suckered by Bono! (Which reminds me, check out Chris's film giving him a good pwning)

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=2499597342588374058

To be fair great points but I cant help to see the flaws. Not that the whole is one, I do not know.

Thanks, of course what isnt flawed? This vid isnt supposed to rock the world, its just three guys sharing a vibe, and I appreciate you watching

[john white]

I loved watching that video of Shelly Yates telling her story, she resonated to me as being true, so I won't argue with that.

Although, I was informed of her too late so I never got to actually "fire the grid", but I meditate everyday, so I don't really need a specific day to try heal the world, every day is good.

It's always nice to hear you speak John. You've got a good way of expressing yourself!

Cheers mate, your definately on our wavelength :)

[neutron flux]

Well then, you are ensuring there are things about yourself that you will never learn.

On the contrary, if you've ever dealt with sociopathic individuals you would have learnt that the best option is avoidance. You don't need to hate them, just know their modus operandi and don't let yourself be suckered in.

I trust people to be true to their vibration: one might say their natures: I expect the severley imbalanced to act severely imbalanced: but they are still people: I do not Fear them, and I can understand them, which means I can forgive them, and help them: all of that is summarised as: I can Love them. And I can do that 100% whilst also not being soft on then 1 inch


The thing is John, they may look like us, but they're not like us. They are our predator. They are organic machines which lack conscience. I don't think you do understand them otherwise you wouldn't be saying you can help them by "loving" them. Like I said, I don't hate them they are part of this world, but it doesn't mean I should hang out in the lions den - it's dangerous.

[roxanna222]

Ok John, I see what you are saying on the food issue to Ethiopia. My apologies on that. I did enjoy the discussion and I will check out the video link. Thanks

[mitch_lane]

Neutron Flux wrote:

...The thing is John, they may look like us, but they're not like us. They are our predator. They are organic machines which lack conscience. I don't think you do understand them otherwise you wouldn't be saying you can help them by "loving" them. Like I said, I don't hate them they are part of this world, but it doesn't mean I should hang out in the lions den - it's dangerous..

I have a real aversion- skin crawling type- to crocodiles and alligators- part of it I feel is their apparent antiquity and their implacable way of killing: often I prefer to not watch programmes that feature them but I do remember watching one such programme that featured Steve Irwin where he made a comment about why he was so concerned with the welfare of those creatures. He said something along the lines of that "if we can take care of and show kindness to that that would kill us then the world will be okay". I believe he was correct.

[john white]

On the contrary, if you've ever dealt with sociopathic individuals you would have learnt that the best option is avoidance. You don't need to hate them, just know their modus operandi and don't let yourself be suckered in.



The thing is John, they may look like us, but they're not like us. They are our predator. They are organic machines which lack conscience. I don't think you do understand them otherwise you wouldn't be saying you can help them by "loving" them. Like I said, I don't hate them they are part of this world, but it doesn't mean I should hang out in the lions den - it's dangerous.

This seems pretty close to "organic portals" to me, which although I know Icke supports I don't vibe with at all: seems to me to be based on a limited understanding of what WE are

Meanwhile, you dont love them, you dont hate them, and you want to avoid them.. well I can understand all three... but as I said before, I do hold that this results in a limited understanding of oneself

[mitch_lane]

John White wrote:

...This seems pretty close to "organic portals" to me, which although I know Icke supports I don't vibe with at all: seems to me to be based on a limited understanding of what WE are...

I have a problem with that too as I'm not sure I'm willing to believe that there are beings who are totally disconnected from source or who are designed to be that way- although on the earth bound plane I'm not too sure about the capacity of cloned beings to connect with their higher self- I haven't really looked into it that much but it is something of a niggle to say the least.

However I do feel that I prefer the view of the Doctor from The Doctor Dances: "Just this once, everybody lives". Joyfully, re-connected, in balance. I feel that should be the outcome for all and will be the outcome for all.

[neutron flux]

This seems pretty close to "organic portals" to me, which although I know Icke supports I don't vibe with at all:

Well, psychopaths have been described as "failed" organic portals, but the OP theory is by no means new as Mouravieff speaks of "Adamic" man and "Pre-adamic" man in his Gnosis books. There seems to be quite a bit of data to support this theory of OP's, but psychopaths are very real and documented.

seems to me to be based on a limited understanding of what WE are


It doesn't seem limiting at all, in effect we are all machines until we learn to work on ourselves - which of course does lend to understanding not only the biological machine but also the higher centers and developing them.

Meanwhile, you dont love them, you dont hate them, and you want to avoid them.. well I can understand all three... but as I said before, I do hold that this results in a limited understanding of oneself

I'm not sure what you're saying here John; are you saying we must interact with psychopathic individuals which will help us understand ourselves? If that is the case wouldn't it be better to interact with co-linear people with conscience and empathy? There's no happy ending when dealing with psychopaths, even though when you first meet them they will be very charming and likable but this is just their "mask of sanity".

[john white]

This seems pretty close to "organic portals" to me, which although I know Icke supports I don't vibe with at all:

Well, psychopaths have been described as "failed" organic portals, but the OP theory is by no means new as Mouravieff speaks of "Adamic" man and "Pre-adamic" man in his Gnosis books. There seems to be quite a bit of data to support this theory of OP's, but psychopaths are very real and documented.

I'd say its VERY old: "Some souls are less equal than others" has always been a temptation from those with a need to believe their own souls are valuable... becuase they don't know their own souls are valuable. It also has classic aspects of an "aloof" control drama. "Organic Portals" is simply the latest varient... its only true... on a certain "level"

It's true that people can be "possesed", and what is doing the "possesing" is lower vibrational conciousness from the collective mind that overwhelms the core personality. However, the true self can be suppresed but never eliminated, and one has faith in the potential of other souls as one has faith in the potency of the Creator. All things are possible, all pain is healable

seems to me to be based on a limited understanding of what WE are

It doesn't seem limiting at all, in effect we are all machines until we learn to work on ourselves - which of course does lend to understanding not only the biological machine but also the higher centers and developing them.

Your point is valid, but I said limited, not limiting... limited becuase it only holds when we do not truly grasp that we are one

Meanwhile, you dont love them, you dont hate them, and you want to avoid them.. well I can understand all three... but as I said before, I do hold that this results in a limited understanding of oneself

I'm not sure what you're saying here John; are you saying we must interact with psychopathic individuals which will help us understand ourselves? If that is the case wouldn't it be better to interact with co-linear people with conscience and empathy? There's no happy ending when dealing with psychopaths, even though when you first meet them they will be very charming and likable but this is just their "mask of sanity".

I'm saying that even the most evil person ever exists as a potential within each of us: by turning away from recognising that kinship we perpetuate the seperation of that evil and facilitate it's potential rise in the world

God Consciouness, to me, is not "we are all equal: apart from you: your too far gone": the sick in soul need the appropriate uncompromsing nursing just as much as the sick in body: Love can be hard when it needs to be

And I say that if we are not considering the question of Evil by striving for empathy with God Consciousness, we arnt going to create even the vaguest chance of a meaningful harmonising solution

Doing my part in that is definately my aim

[neutron flux]

I'd say its VERY old: "Some souls are less equal than others" has always been a temptation from those with a need to believe their own souls are valuable... becuase they don't know their own souls are valuable. It also has classic aspects of an "aloof" control drama. "Organic Portals" is simply the latest varient... its only true... on a certain "level"


It could be said that OP's have under-developed souls or only a spark, and only "mirror" the higher centers. But do psychopaths have a soul? It doesn't seem that they do.

I'm saying that even the most evil person ever exists as a potential within each of us: by turning away from recognising that kinship we perpetuate the seperation of that evil and facilitate it's potential rise in the world


I don't think that being an evil person such as say Fred West or some dictator exists within each of us at all. I'm not sure why you would think that. :confused:
To acknowledge the existence of psychopaths and how they work seems imperative so as to not facilitate its rise because the biggest mistake we make is to think that there is conscience and empathy in everyone, when clearly that is not the case.

God Consciouness, to me, is not "we are all equal: apart from you: your too far gone": the sick in soul need the appropriate uncompromsing nursing just as much as the sick in body: Love can be hard when it needs to be


Psychopaths can't be cured.

And it must be said that some choose darkness, just as some choose the light. Who am I to change their choice? But I do have a choice to acknowledge it exists and also protect myself from them and spread knowledge about it so others can benefit.

And I say that if we are not considering the question of Evil by striving for empathy with God Consciousness, we arnt going to create even the vaguest chance of a meaningful harmonising solution


You could view it like this: Lions are beautiful creatures but if you go up to one and start to pet it, it might just rip your arm off, so we acknowledge their danger and we observe from a distance as a natural creature of this world but something that you should be cautious of. The same could be said of psychopaths, keep your distance because they too will harm you at some level because that's what they do, just like the Lion is being a Lion; the trouble is they look just like us so we don't notice the danger until it's too late and the damage has been done.

[bigus_dickus]

It could be said that OP's have under-developed souls or only a spark, and only "mirror" the higher centers. But do psychopaths have a soul? It doesn't seem that they do.

that's an oxymoron right there, because psycho-path(e)s obviously require a psyche = soul.

[neutron flux]

that's an oxymoron right there, because psycho-path(e)s obviously require a psyche = soul

According to zanadigital:

Today psyche is one of the four parts that makes the sum total of the non-physical aspects of a human being; the others are consciousness, mind and soul. Whilst psyche only exists in the body and is connected to the body, soul refers to the part that is unfading.



I did phrase what I said in the form of a question and said it did seem that they didn't have a soul, but you'd have to admit their actions do seem a tad souless.

[lifeofbrian]

It could be said that OP's have under-developed souls or only a spark, and only "mirror" the higher centers. But do psychopaths have a soul? It doesn't seem that they do.

OP's have no individual soul. Nor a spark. They can be compared to birds; if you look into the eyes of one magpie, you look into the hivemind of all magpies.

They are clever imitators though. They learn from souled humans, and mimic the behaviour. Whatever they see as being 'approved of' they will perpetuate and make the most of. They might even get so used to the act that they believe it is one of their own character traits.

To acknowledge the existence of psychopaths and how they work seems imperative so as to not facilitate its rise because the biggest mistake we make is to think that there is conscience and empathy in everyone, when clearly that is not the case.

True. Misplaced compassion is believing we can change people into our own image. Think again.

Psychopaths can't be cured.

True.

And it must be said that some choose darkness, just as some choose the light. Who am I to change their choice? But I do have a choice to acknowledge it exists and also protect myself from them and spread knowledge about it so others can benefit.

Most 'choices' (paths) are purely genetical and hereditary/environmental. Not 'free' at all. In fact, many people walk around loudly talking about their 'free will' and their 'choices'. And anybody can easily tell they are copies of their mother or father.

You could view it like this: Lions are beautiful creatures but if you go up to one and start to pet it, it might just rip your arm off, so we acknowledge their danger and we observe from a distance as a natural creature of this world but something that you should be cautious of. The same could be said of psychopaths, keep your distance because they too will harm you at some level because that's what they do, just like the Lion is being a Lion; the trouble is they look just like us so we don't notice the danger until it's too late and the damage has been done.

You give lions a bad name here. At least lions are being lions, not monsters in cat suits.

OP's/psychopaths are worse. Under the veneer of proper language, dress and taste, they are vile, cold blooded, calculating and cynical. Dead inside. To feel anything they turn to drugs, self pity, crime, lies, manipulation, control of other people, fear, making fun of others to elevate themselves, non stop joking, etc.

[lifeofbrian]

LOL! And from which book would you get your answers to test me by?

On the level you are approaching, its like Astrology: Matrix rules, Matrix tools

"Fire the Grid" is a metaphor: a mental map: an excuse to keep the inauthentic programmed self occupied to allow a path for consciousness without to talk with consciousness within. Like all maps it is not the thing itself, it is an artisitc creation of mind, an invite to share

ALL is energy: ALL is source:

It is enough to know where I am and what I am focused upon

Knowledge of Energy is knowledge of Consiousness is knowledge of Source: thats why its the most liberating knowledge of all: it IS Divine FM!

And that means it extends far beyond the remit of any group of priests or shamans or druids: this knowledge is the birthright of all manifest humanity to grow into awakeness in

And it doesnt belong to particular people: it belongs to all of God's Children: its the only way it can be, if humanities consciousness is not going to fall

This sounds like something from a kid making it up as he goes along.

Seriously; just admit you have no idea what you are trying to talk about.

Good grief.

[john white]

This sounds like something from a kid making it up as he goes along.

Seriously; just admit you have no idea what you are trying to talk about.

Good grief.

Not playing your game Brian: the "kid" here is you

[lifeofbrian]

Not playing your game Brian: the "kid" here is you

Your loss. If you have no desire to learn, keep up the arrogance.

[them]

OP's have no individual soul. Nor a spark. They can be compared to birds; if you look into the eyes of one magpie, you look into the hivemind of all magpies.

Computer says no.

You've just done a beautiful species a disservice. Set a group of Magpies a reward test & some will always work out how to get the reward, some will never work it out & every shade of grey in between.

If we are all the same, why are we all so different?

[lifeofbrian]

Computer says no.

You've just done a beautiful species a disservice. Set a group of Magpies a reward test & some will always work out how to get the reward, some will never work it out & every shade of grey in between.

If we are all the same, why are we all so different?

Ha ha, with 'magpies', not talking about the Newcastle football team here at all. The birds. No, not the women. The flying black and white reppies.

Animals have group souls. As within any lifeform there are levels of instinct and awareness; anything from basic survival behaviour to migration. Compare birds with cats. Still, same group soul for one species of animals. Explains telepathy.

Domesticated animals will drift towards the more individual due to training by humans, but can not develop an independent soul unless the domestication so overrides the group behavior that it allows them reincarnation as human.

A lot of humans have animal residue for 'soul' until they fully 'graduate' into a soul group of like minded humans. So behaviour is vital in how our souls are developing. Nota bene.

Humans are not all the same. Look around you.

[them]

Ha ha, with magpies', not talking about the Newcastle football team here at all. The birds. No, not the women. The flying black and white reppies.

Animals have group souls. As within any lifeform there are levels of instinct and awareness; anything from basic survival behaviour to migration. Compare birds with cats. Still, same group soul for one species of animals. Explains telepathy.

Domesticated animals will drift towards the more individual due to training by humans, but can not develop an independent soul unless the domestication so overrides the group behavior that it allows them reincarnation as human.

A lot of humans have animal residue for 'soul' until they fully 'graduate' into a soul group of like minded humans. So behaviour is vital in how our souls are developing. Nota bene.

Humans are not all the same. Look around you.

Do you differentiate between the material brain & consciousness?

[lifeofbrian]

Do you differentiate between the material brain & consciousness?

Absolutely.

[them]

Absolutely.

How do you do that?

[lifeofbrian]

How do you do that?

Why do you ask?

How did the idea enter your awareness?

How come a brain can imagine something larger than itself?

[them]

Why do you ask?

It's an interesting question, don't you think?

How did the idea enter your awareness?

What idea?

How come a brain can imagine something larger than itself?

I don't know.

[lifeofbrian]

It's an interesting question, don't you think?

It's a common one.

What idea?

Your idea: "Do you differentiate between the material brain & consciousness?"


I don't know.

You will one day.

[them]

It's a common one.



Your idea: "Do you differentiate between the material brain & consciousness?"




You will one day.

Thank you for clarifying that for me.

[lifeofbrian]

Thank you for clarifying that for me.

Something tells me you already knew.

Welcome all the same. Take care.

[neutron flux]

OP's have no individual soul. Nor a spark. They can be compared to birds; if you look into the eyes of one magpie, you look into the hivemind of all magpies.


Yes, it has been said that OP's are from a group "pool" hence the hive-mind.

They are clever imitators though. They learn from souled humans, and mimic the behaviour. Whatever they see as being 'approved of' they will perpetuate and make the most of. They might even get so used to the act that they believe it is one of their own character traits.


Yes, so it can hard to tell who could be an OP and who's not. Long and careful observation is the key, so we shouldn't be so quick to judge. Knowing the "signs" of psychopaths is crucial, such as their actions do not match their words.

OP's/psychopaths are worse. Under the veneer of proper language, dress and taste, they are vile, cold blooded, calculating and cynical. Dead inside. To feel anything they turn to drugs, self pity, crime, lies, manipulation, control of other people, fear, making fun of others to elevate themselves, non stop joking, etc.

True, and on the surface they will appear so charming, so likable that they seem utterly persuasive and compellingly healthy, but it's just a "mask of Sanity". They also can play "the victim" in order to suck people in and gain control (I was once involved with a psychopathic woman who played this card.)
The sad fact is because they are at the top of the media and such, they introduce the psycho characteristics into the mainstream culture thus infecting people with this programming which in effect seeks to make us in their image, and so it's seen as "normal".

Getting back to the FTG, why would Shelley's "light beings" fail to mention the real reason the planet is becoming a toxic dump is because of psychopathic individuals? It's obvious that meditating away these people isn't going to work, so it's an obvious conclusion that it is all a distraction at best and something far sinister at worst.

[lifeofbrian]

Getting back to the FTG, why would Shelley's "light beings" fail to mention the real reason the planet is becoming a toxic dump is because of psychopathic individuals? It's obvious that meditating away these people isn't going to work, so it's an obvious conclusion that it is all a distraction at best and something far sinister at worst.

I agree with your comments regarding OP's.

Regarding the motives for 'lightbeings' only communicating easy solutions and sunshine options as it were, I presume you are asking this to everybody in general and not to me personally, but I want to offer my impression and conclusion all the same.

In my understanding, what is vital at this point in time - 'time' being of significance - is for people to integrate their shadow self. What this will mean in reality, is that individuals begin to grow up as in taking responsibility for every thought, action, feeling, dream and nightmare they are going through. The way this plays out is by people becoming less predictable and more prone to spontaneous behavior and reactions as they are allowing their genuine non-conditioned self to take the wheel. Integrating the shadow self if like cleaning out the wardrobe and attic and facing the parts we might have come to see as weak or flawed, but were perfectly understandable under the circumstances.

By owning the sides of one's self formerly tucked away and thus often projected, they no longer have any power to undermine our lives by popping up in stressful situations. It can be a turbulent period in life while this growth is going on but it is important work from a spiritual point of view, not to mention emotional and mental.

Now, what OP's fear is unpredictability. Going with a natural emotional flow is something completely alien to their mindset.

What they fear even more, is individuals behaving like individuals. Independent, in charge of both their excitement and their being outraged at having their sensibilities insulted for example, as in able to express it but not becoming controlled by either; since empathy and compassion will kick in at some point and prevent an individual from going too far. As the integration gives a person a bigger picture which is impossible to forget, or even work outside. Once understanding one's nature, there is no going back to being dim, or stereotypical.

Souled humans will rarely - if ever - behave like monsters if outraged. Loud and swearing and irrational maybe, but not going on a killing spree. However, OP's trying to integrate their anger, would stick out like sore thumbs. They would not have control. So the more 'sunshine' and 'positive meditation' the less reality and their true nature for them to deal with.

(Btw, in some spiritual schools of thought the process of integration of the shadow self is known as the embodiment of the higher self.)

I could go on giving examples but I think you get my point.

What the OP's - and their bosses the 'lightbeings' - very much like, are people looking around at others for clues on how to act, react, feel, how to interpret information, how to live, think, discern and what to put faith in.

Mass events are great for them. Christmas.

In my humble conclusion.

[john white]

Brian, why are you being so forceful on this thread?

You talk to me about arrogance whilst claiming mastery over earth energy, and show nothing to back that up, whilst I have offered many routes into conversation, all of which you have ignored with your single minded purpose: and you have also not watched the very material this thread is here to present to people

What are you trying to prove?

And to whom?

I don't mean anything sinister by that, but I mean to yourself? To the forum audience? To me?

I can assure you there is plenty of depth in me to share

Why not watch the film and at least get the damn fool questions out of the way, becuase the discussion covers most of them?

[soglad]

Brian, why are you being so forceful on this thread?


He does that most threads. I had a talk with him on another forum. Maybe he's just that type of guy? :confused:

[john white]

He does that most threads. I had a talk with him on another forum. Maybe he's just that type of guy? :confused:

Oh well: forum life as usual then! Just one of those things

[bigus_dickus]

According to zanadigital:

what is a zanadigital?

Quote:
Today psyche is one of the four parts that makes the sum total of the non-physical aspects of a human being; the others are consciousness, mind and soul. Whilst psyche only exists in the body and is connected to the body, soul refers to the part that is unfading.
I did phrase what I said in the form of a question and said it did seem that they didn't have a soul, but you'd have to admit their actions do seem a tad souless.

I did phrase what I said in the form of a question and said it did seem that they didn't have a soul, but you'd have to admit their actions do seem a tad souless.

it seems we can give any definition we want, since we are ignorant and have only assumptions and theories. there may not even be "things" such as soul, spirit, mind, they may be concepts made by us in our effort to understand nature.

however the word psyche is nothing but the word soul in the greek language. hence psychology, psychedelic, psychoanalysis, psychiatry, psychic, psychoacoustic, etc.

but, in my opinion, psyche (soul), is often confused with mind and consciousness and often identified with spirit. the truth is probably that the complex mind-soul-body is one integrated piece while spirit is some kind of subtler movement or action or pattern. for example, spirit is the first thing you receive in this world with your first breath and the last thing you release with your last breath and what keeps you alive during your life time through breathing.

soul on the other hand, has a function like a prism, which splits conscious awareness (consciousness), to parts (7 parts as they say) integrated with corresponding bodies (-minds), one of which is the so-called individual's body-mind and on the 'highest' part is connected with all that is, gradually dividing consciousness to subordinate collectives.

therefore psychology as a science that we know today, is not really psychology, but 'mindology', or just 'behaviorology', meaning the "study of the mind and behavior".

i can also add, that what you people call an OP, is not somebody who does not contain a soul in his body, rather than someone whose soul parts are disconnected from their 'higher' aspects. for example, soul is what "passes out" when we faint and what "passes away" when we die, which would mean that it is a requirement for life to exist. also, the soul is not individual, but a synthesis of characteristics and aspects (and 'spirits'!) that can change by influence and intention, something we call 'psycho synthesis'.

but this is somewhat confusing and i don't understand it that much myself to explain it, maybe imagination can to a better job. concluding, i would say that OPs are viewed as "soul less" meaning not lack of soul completely, but as the phrase says "less" soul in a sense, or to understand it better, disconnection from the intent of the higher aspects, the highest of which we call "God". breaking the soul down, in the 'low' planes of its aspects, exists all matter that we know of, even the material objects that we manufacture. they too are 'soul' and are one with us and all that is, but they have no intentionality in themselves, therefore no practical individuality, they can only be viewed as parts of ourselves when we feel or think we are connected with them.

[neutron flux]

it seems we can give any definition we want, since we are ignorant and have only assumptions and theories. there may not even be "things" such as soul, spirit, mind, they may be concepts made by us in our effort to understand nature.


True, we can only go on the knowledge and data we have.

however the word psyche is nothing but the word soul in the greek language. hence psychology, psychedelic, psychoanalysis, psychiatry, psychic, psychoacoustic, etc.


True, and a modern word for psychopath is of course sociopath.

[john white]

but, in my opinion, psyche (soul), is often confused with mind and consciousness and often identified with spirit. the truth is probably that the complex mind-soul-body is one integrated piece while spirit is some kind of subtler movement or action or pattern. for example, spirit is the first thing you receive in this world with your first breath and the last thing you release with your last breath and what keeps you alive during your life time through breathing.


I like this opinion :)

[lifeofbrian]

Brian, why are you being so forceful on this thread?

You talk to me about arrogance whilst claiming mastery over earth energy, and show nothing to back that up, whilst I have offered many routes into conversation, all of which you have ignored with your single minded purpose: and you have also not watched the very material this thread is here to present to people

What are you trying to prove?

And to whom?

I don't mean anything sinister by that, but I mean to yourself? To the forum audience? To me?

I can assure you there is plenty of depth in me to share

Why not watch the film and at least get the damn fool questions out of the way, becuase the discussion covers most of them?

I didn't know I was being "forceful"?

How can I be more like you then?

My 'handicap' is I know far more than any researcher who has gone public has ever written about. When online I look around for people on the same wavelength. Not many about. That is not bragging. It is how life has offered answers when I asked for them.

I am sorry you find me objectionable, John White. I'll stay out of your threads in the future.

[john white]

http://www.redicecreations.com/article.php?id=1451

http://illusionsforum.jconserv.net/viewtopic.php?t=4723&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

[earthseed]

FTG what a great mind control new order religion loosh collecting manipulation. And we fell for it like we always do. Cows keep marching into the slaughterhouse we keep giving our energy away to any two bit shapeshifter who gives us a good fuck in the head. I can already hear the love and light crew coming in quick to save this thread. Watch out they do carry weapons.

[john white]

Would you like to talk about it?

[eternal_spirit]

This may be relevant. If the Elite do their rituals to effect(infect) the Earth's energy grid, leylines etc. with negative energy via sacrafice. Some believe that others with good intentions can infuse positive love energies into the Earth grid.

[john white]

This may be relevant. If the Elite do their rituals to effect(infect) the Earth's energy grid, leylines etc. with negative energy via sacrafice. Some believe that others with good intentions can infuse positive love energies into the Earth grid.

It seems reasonably obvious to me that if we find it credible that the elite CAN infect/effect the Earth's energy Grid to supress the masses and (seek to) maintain their control, then it is equally credible to influence it the other way

I've resurrected this topic today becuase a Q re: Fire the Grid raised itself on the Fountain Film thread I recently started, and this place seemed a good place to discuss that (not wanting to unnesacrily discuss potential criticism of Fire the Grid to the detriment of discussing Fountain)

To that end, i've linked the Red Ice peice brought forward on the fountain thread, and also a recent discussion from last week on Illusionsforum

FMPOV this thread had a bumpy ride when it first rode out, but the central questions raised in the film I made with Mark and Dondaz are just as relevant:

A central concept in energy work is that the conscious mind is a surface layer of the full totality of consciousness that is "us"

Here's something Icke said in Tales from the Timeloop that I've always found interesting (becuase it matches my own experiances)

Words were only necessary to keep the five-sense 'mind' occupied while the energy infusions did their work, the voice told me. I was shown a scene of myself standing on a stage in a theatre. I was saying nothing the audience were looking at each other in bewilderment. The voice said, laughing: "You only speak words because if you did not, the audience would be sitting there asking 'when is he going to start?' - not knowing that you already had!" Unseen energy was the real transformer, not human language. That was only to keep the five-sense mind happy. More and more people are waking up and this is why: a vibrational change is unfolding ever more quickly. The voice said the reason there was such an effort underway to imprison humanity even further in the fast emerging global fascist state or New World Order was a desperate attempt to hold the game together and stop the awakening people - especially through the microchips that are designed to artificially suppress the quickening vibrations of awakening humanity. What the manipulators did not realise, I was told, is what they are dealing with. They are ignorant of the true background to the 'game' in which they, too, are pawns.

The voice said: "This transformation is not a maybe, it is not something that might happen or we hope will happen if things go according to ·plan'. It is happening now and the power and speed of the change will become ever more profound and obvious. What you are seeing is the last desperate attempt of the 'Matrix' to stop the inevitable, that 's all. The transformation from prison to paradise is a done deal."

There's been two layers of criticism of Fire the Grid: Five sense level and Consciousness Level

Obviously, refuting the claims of the Five Sense level criticism was something I was able to do by finding Five sense level proof that the evetns Shelley Yates descriobed did in fact occur

The Illusions forum discussion was more interesting: it was a Channler's critique of fire the Grid on the basis that although the FIve sense level was true, her channeled information said that people were essentially gulable and stupid if they went along with it (thats this lady "star fire Tor" http://www.starfiretor.com/report_firethegrid.htm). The Red Ice peice is essentially along the same lines

But hang on a minute: here we have non-physical conscuiouness telling us "think for ourselves" (as window dressing) whilst also saying: "but if you go along with Fire The Grid your an idiot: becuase we say so"

This doesnt sit right with me at all

Let's be honest: a lot of people didnt vibe with Fire the Grid without going directly to the source material: its a similar thing with the film I've put out through Malvern Messages, which I've not promoted in many places (cheifly here), yet the video views are far less than the thread views on here. And i also experianced that to a certain extent, becuase I was as suprised as anyone else to discover that what i had initially thought "New Age crap" (Shelley's story) turned out to be based solidly in fact: so really I DO understand

And yet, what I subsequently found in Shelley Yates information vibes with Ickes information pretty much 100%! I'd certainly say it was coming from at least the same level of understadning as Ickes info in "truth Vibrations": and I find it significant that Icke can be found on the fountain Video too

Taking all the above into account, what this says to me is that we still have a long way to go trusting in ourselves, and our own potential to make a difference... and these were the thoguhts I created in relation to "Fire the Grid" just before the event:

You know I'm in one of those awkward places today where I don't seem to quite see things the same as other people but have to try and express myself anyway

On the one hand we seem to have people inspired and lifted by the Fire the Grid message, some of them New Ager’s who embrace anything, some inspired for the first time.

On the other hand we seem to have people asking various questions and finding what appear to be good reasons to be dubious and doubt "where this is coming from" and conclude its part of some manipulation

I'm not satisfied with either position: because it seems to me that’s its not a simple matter of duality (but then, it seems to me that duality is actually the illusion that controls: is this dit or is this dot? but what about ditot?)

We are coming to a crunch, where we have the info we have, we know what we know, and we have to say: am I going to act, or am I not? Am I going to focus on what we have in common to build a shared future, or focus on what we have apart and not act because everyone else in the world is not the same as me?

Let’s put it this way: are "dark forces" going to be out to manipulate and use an event like "fire the grid"

Well that’s an oxymoron isn’t it? Since when have "dark forces" not been ready to use and manipulate anything genuine that could break their spell and weaken their "power"

Is that an excuse to never come together in anything, ever, because we can always find evidence for "them" playing silly buggers?

Isn't that, in itself, another form of control?

I'm not saying what anyone else should say, think or feel, but I've decided that I am me, I am free, and it’s better to have my participation in this event where I can do my part to influence, than not take part and let "the others" influence anyway

And that all the "power" the Dark powers have anyway: the power to influence

Who do we believe in more?

"Them"

Or ourselves

No contest for me, what about you?

Lets make it happen

[eternal_spirit]

It's a tricky issue. Some may go to stone circles, energy hot spots on the Earths Energy Grid and other places they feel, know of, have been told are also hot spots. Taking crystals to work with, even stones which can be classed as crystals I guess. Some may chant, or do positive magick type rituals. others will meditate.

What I did find interesting about Icke's theories ( can't remember which book ) If you're conciousness is on the love vibration frequency, which is considered the purest and highest frequency and has authority over negative energies.

Just by being at or near a energy hot spot, you then become a source to channel the love vibration into the Energy Grid which can help cancel out the negative crap of the brotherhoods rituals. This means it can be done without any occult type ritual etc, just by pure love and the human conciousness interacting with the earth's Energy field.

[john white]

This means it can be done without any occult type ritual etc, just by pure love and the human conciousness interacting with the earth's Energy field.


Exactly: all "cermony" or "ritual" is just window dressing, whether positvely or negatively intended

The purpose of them is to get the shape of the peoples energy feilds going in the "right" way to tap into other levels of the "Matrix"

But we are source energy:

When we know that, we dont see ourselves as small and tiny we know that the universe without is the universe within: we can tap right back to source and emit that energy

We just do it

On that basis events like Fire The Grid can't decieve us in anyway unless we are looking to some outside force to define who we are: and being as the chanelling critics of "Fire the Grid" havnt got a leg to stand on there...

It really was a matrix level "excuse" to be ourselves at the same time as others also were themselves:

And the lesson is we can do that all the time, and therefore should: if we want to

[malvern]

nice work John.... shame some of these folks do not post on malvern messages, that would liven things up in malvern:)

freedom for all:)