@ james 777

[umbrex]

What do you say about the first 35 minutes of this film ?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5547481422995115331&q=zeitgeist&total=846&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

i'm dying to hear :)

[james777]

Ya brudda, give me some time to review this and I'll get right back to you.........

[cruise4]

It opened my eyes up more than anything else about religion and the Christ story possibly being hogwash. But I did see this information posted on another site which seems to have a few mitigating points and worthy of posting I feel. Its the only opposing viewpoint I've seen. Overall though a very concise informative film even if it does have the odd fact wrong. And there's two versions, Zeitgeist 1 and 2. 2 may address these issues. I don't know. However the world has endless coincidences. Perhaps Jesus chose to follow the confusing route. Nothing is conclusive is it:

Originally Posted by OperaPhantom91
I hate to ruin the fun for you all, but the guy has most of his facts wrong.

Zeitgeist is based off of the historical works of Acharya S – pen name for D. Murdock. When I read her works she used vulgar language and wrote in such a way that many historians have ostracized her. Many Christians have pointed out the fallacies of her work.

This movie is largely based upon her book “The Christ Conspiracy: The Greatest Story Ever Told” and “Suns of God: Krishna, Buddha, and Christ Unveiled”. Her work is often criticized as ‘twisting the truth’, ‘misleading’, ‘made-up’, ‘over-exaggerated’, ‘bias…without contempt for historical accuracy’, ‘a spit in the face to modern history’ and so on. (I will try to find those articles for you guys.)

To start with, I will point out the fallacies in the movie:
Horus was the SKY GOD in Egyptian mythology, NOT the SUN GOD. Ra was the sun god. Horus means "Falcon". Eventually, yes, Horus did become associated with the Sun through his eyes. One eye was the sun, the other the moon - so he was not conquered by Set at night.
None of those were born of a virgin birth:
Horus was the son of Osiris (a male god of the underworld) and Isis (a female god). As time progresses we see that the Hellenic Greeks got Horus confused with Osiris, which would make Horus his own father... still not a virgin birth, as there was a father - himself, according to Greeks.
Attis was the son of Cybele... well he sort of had a virgin birth - His mother was impregnated by a tree that was inseminated by a creature called Agdistis who was the son of the mountain which was inseminated by Zeus. Kinda not really a virgin birth.
Krishna was the eighth son born to the princess Devaki, and her husband Vasudeva, born on July 19th 3228 BC
Dionysus' mother was a mortal Semele and his father was the god Zeus. Zeus had intercourse with his mother - so sorry, not a virgin.
Mithra was born from a rock... I guess that's a virgin...? Kind of a stretch there, ya think?
In fact, most 'virgin births' in mythology were things like "coming from the semen of poseidon and the sea" or "coming from Zeus' head" or a rock, like Mithra!
It should be noted that the Romans invented Crucifixion, it did not exist prior the later half of the first millennium BC
Historically speaking, Mithraism was actually influenced by Christianity - though it can be traced to 2000 years before Christ, we do not start seeing parallels to Christianity until the second century AD, 200 years after the birth of Christianity, and 120 years after the last New Testament document was written.
Though traditionally Jesus is said to have been born on Dec. 25th, it is actually believed he was born in August. It is well known facts that Christians celebrated His birth on Dec. 25th to purposely compete with the Pagan faiths.
As for them all being dead for 3 days and resurrecting - I've found no evidence of this from a reliable source.
The "Three Kings" in Orion’s Belt did not appear until the Middle Ages, long after the appearance of Christianity - Scientists have yet to confirm what the Magi saw that brought them to Bethlehem, all we know is that there was Zoroastrian prophecy saying that a 'star' would appear in the 'West' and lead them to the King of Israel, and savior of mankind.
Notice, the documentary claims that a star in the 'East' - Sirius - aligns with Orion’s belt and becomes brighter...
The Three Wise Men or Kings specifically came from the East, traveling WEST to Bethlehem. Why would they follow an eastern star to go west if they're coming from the East? Furthermore, Jesus was born in the West of the three kings and not the East.
The "M" argument is just plain stupid! What are the Greeks and Chinese/Indians doing using Latin glyphs and Roman mythology and astrology? (many Greek myths were modified by the Romans)
The solstice bit shows a misunderstanding of the sun's movement. The Solstice does not always occur on the 21st, it can occur between the 21st and 23rd. The sun does not just sit idly by for 3 days, waiting for us to make legends about it. It will appear to rise the following day.
The astrology account is not very reliable. According to most astrologists, the age of Pisces began 200 years before Christ, and ended in the year 2000. It’s still rather confusing, and I don’t think they know what age we’re in now, but most sources agree that Pisces started hundreds of years before the birth of Christ. So sorry, close but no cigar.
It should also be noted that Hebrew culture did not embrace the Zodiac, and that Moses never used a ram’s horn – that was mentioned once in the Old testament to signify the coming of the Egyptians. It should be noted that the Gregorian calendar (which our modern day one is largely based on) and Jewish calendar do not follow the Zodiac in anyway shape and or form, and that the Zodiac is not a Jewish symbol, and to Christians, has always been regarded as pagan.
The Symbols of Jesus coming from the Zodiac, while an impressive find, are not really based off the Zodiac. He uses one Zodiac illustration throughout the documentary; it should be noted that not all, in fact, most did not have the axis. The circular symbol around the center of the cross is a simplification of statues which show a halo/crown of thorns around Christ:
I’ve tried looking up this “Nemo” from Babylon – I’ve found no mention outside of a very bias archaeological report (by Murdock). In fact, Manou is the only one I’ve found, and he was an Indian law god around 1000 BC, 1000 years after Moses. Minos was king of Crete, who supposedly got laws from Zeus to impose on his subjects every 9 years. As for Mises… once again, nothing.
In fact, the only mention of ‘nemo’ in a lawgiver sense outside of sources based off of this documentary is in the Latin Vulgate Bible, the Book of John, chapter 7, verse 19:
“Nonne Moses dedit vobis legem et nemo ex vobis facit legem”
Translates:
Did not Moses give you the Law, and [yet] none of you carries out the Law? Why do you seek to kill Me?
“Nemo” translates to “none”. This is the only mention of Nemo coming close to a lawgiver outside of the research in Zeitgeist.
In Zeitgeist, the narrator claims that there is no historical proof for Christ, and gives 40 historians who he says do not mention Christ.
Josephus does mention Jesus Christ.
So does Pliny the Younger and
Tacitus, and I think
Tiberius does too.
His claim of Christ being the sun god of Gnostics is rather an idiotic claim
The Gnostics believed Christ similarly to the same way Christians do now – except they believe he was a man, had babies, etc, and came after the first book of the New Testament was believed to have been written.
Not only that, but he claims that the Romans used Christianity for control – this is not so, they had been persecuting Christians for 300 years.
In fact, Constantine used the Edict of Milan as a method of control – not Christianity.
He was not interested in uniting the Empire under one faith, but ending the blood shed – which he did by legalizing ALL religions, not just Christianity.
And the narrator also forgets that the Vatican contributed vastly to the Renascence, perhaps more so than they did the Dark Ages,
and that the Christian Greeks of the Byzantine Empire were the most technologically advanced people of all time until the 1700’s.
He points out the similarities of Jesus and Joseph, and yet, fails to realize that everything recorded in the New Testament is recorded to show Jesus’ fulfillment of Old Testament prophecies.
He also does not name the differences between Jesus and Joseph – Joseph was not born of a virgin birth, but of a mother in old age - is one example.
Over all the documentary is dangerous and presents exagerated truths and made up theories as facts, and makes connections between them. To anyone who is not well educated in the field of history, this movie will curve them into believing something that is not true. Something that Atheists accuse us Christians of doing.

[bigus_dickus]

oh the horror in the intro, makes you wanna cry a bucket of tears, all this pain and suffering, little children and women going through some rough shit, the american flag on the holy bible.. and then, the prologue of my favorite new ager, astrology and occultism promoter, jordie maxwell.

using the same methods, you can find similarities between jesus christ and adolf hitler.

but you will believe what you want to believe. especially if you are an ex christian, or if you have been brought up as a christian and got pissed off somehow some time.

note this: the most passionate christianity supporters on these forums, are not real christians. the illusion is really deep.

that video is a waste of time really, it's the same mixed up bullcrap made look exciting for the average new agey.

[cheeb]

Did you not read your bible,
The mezuzah,was hung from the lintels ,
to ward off the angel of the Lord,
Who caused the death of the firstborn,
After the lintel was splashed with the blood of a sacrificial lamb,
This is called passover and roughly corresponds to easter

Jesus was the symbolic mezuzuh,
hung upon a lintel,
as a sacrificial lamb,
on passover,

You christians are worse than pagans,
worshipping idols,

fish dieties,onagers and naptha fire demons,

iacchai

[bigus_dickus]

You christians are worse than pagans,
worshipping idols,

fish dieties,onagers and naptha fire demons,

iacchai

idol worshiping is not christian, it's called idolatry.

[cheeb]

not you biggus dickus,
those narrow minded devils above you'
hate mongers, and sly foxes.

[bigus_dickus]

not you biggus dickus,
those narrow minded devils above you'
hate mongers, and sly foxes.

i know what you mean, i pointed out that they are not real christians..

i have noticed this phenomenon, people "waking up" as they say converting to a sort of christian belief and starting arguing with others about jesus, or the bible. they are not really christians though.. so to call them that is wrong, because what do you call the real ones then? i am not offended at all, i am showing a common mistake being made.

[tinmenace]

Define "real Christians."


I'm not trying to be confrontational, but that term "REAL CHRISTIANS" confuses me even further.

[cheeb]

Well there was a chap,
who walked the earth 2000 years ago
he stood on some higher ground,
and told all who would listen,
about the beauty,
of the earth,

[mikeproteau]

bullshit, jesus was real, i saw him

[bigus_dickus]

Define "real Christians."

I'm not trying to be confrontational, but that term "REAL CHRISTIANS" confuses me even further.

what i mean by "real" christians, is people who have been baptized as christians, go to their church regularly or occasionally, pray, follow their community's customs, etc. like a religious person does.

for example i don't consider someone as a muslim when all he does is talk about allah, but have never participated in the religion. someone who does that talks about religion, has the right to, but is not religious by definition.

the bottom line is that religion is about practice, not theory. theory is ok, but if you don't practice it, you are not really religious.

[ngawaka19]

bullshit, jesus was real, i saw him

Can you tell us the story? How, when and where?
Genuine.

ngawaka

[nickatnoon61]

Define "real Christians."


I'm not trying to be confrontational, but that term "REAL CHRISTIANS" confuses me even further.





I think he meant "RAW" Christians,;) as opposed to the "toasted" or "roasted" variety, which are much tastier,IMHO!!!!:eek:

[tinmenace]

I think he meant "RAW" Christians,;) as opposed to the "toasted" or "roasted" variety, which are much tastier,IMHO!!!!:eek:

So, real Christian Soup has real Christians in it, Nick? Or, just the body of Christ?

[nickatnoon61]

So, real Christian Soup has real Christians in it, Nick? Or, just the body of Christ? Sorry,I CANNOT GIVE OUT MY RECIPES!!!!NO SOUP FOR YOU!!!COME BACK ONE YEAR!!!!:eek:

[tinmenace]

Sorry,I CANNOT GIVE OUT MY RECIPES!!!!NO SOUP FOR YOU!!!COME BACK ONE YEAR!!!!:eek:




Woe is Tin

http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/2/3D_emoticon_140.gif

[nickatnoon61]

Woe is Tin

http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/2/3D_emoticon_140.gif






OK Tin, I may be a little "TEMPER a MENTAL":eek: at times. That is because I suffer for my soup!!!!:mad: COME BACK ONE DAY!!!:D PS HOW DO U GET THOSE OVERSIZED CUTE LITTLE MOTIES ON YOUR POSTS?:confused:

[tinmenace]

OK Tin, I may be a little "TEMPER a MENTAL":eek: at times. That is because I suffer for my soup!!!!:mad: COME BACK ONE DAY!!!:D PS HOW DO U GET THOSE OVERSIZED CUTE LITTLE MOTIES ON YOUR POSTS?:confused:

Aw thanks Nick! Whew! http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/2/3D_emoticon_138.gif



There's a whole thread of them HERE (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4156)

Just right-click on the one you like to "view image", copy the URL, and paste/insert into an image block from your toolbar

[nickatnoon61]

Aw thanks Nick! Whew! http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/2/3D_emoticon_138.gif



There's a whole thread of them HERE (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4156)

Just right-click on the one you like to "view image", copy the URL, and paste/insert into an image block from your toolbar

THANX TINNY, I will find an 8 yr.old to help me on this Puter!!!!:eek: I am running a Powermac G5.:confused:

[auron]

I made a page with them on here:

http://www.freewebs.com/amberleaf2007/animatedemoticons.htm

[nickatnoon61]

I made a page with them on here:

http://www.freewebs.com/amberleaf2007/animatedemoticons.htm
http://www.timshen.truepath.com/christian/Minister_shouts.gif


Thanx Auron...ur no moron!!!! :DMe on me pulpit!!!!:eek:

[auron]

:D

[nickatnoon61]

:D

Auron,Is it 4:00 AM in England now??????:eek:

[auron]

I have 4:17am here.

Time is meaningless to me. :D

[nickatnoon61]

I have 4:17am here.

Time is meaningless to me. :D


I guess not ......when ur on mushrooms!!!!!:eek: It's 8:20 PM here Tues.

[auron]

I guess not ......when ur on mushrooms!!!!!:eek: It's 8:20 PM here Tues.
Not today! Actually It was months ago i last had them!

Well anyway time being meaningless or not, my holographic body is knackered. I've been walking around all day taking pictures.

I'm off to the astral realm now...

Nite nite!!

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/3589/aesleepingju3.gif

[nickatnoon61]

Not today! Actually It was months ago i last had them!

Well anyway time being meaningless or not, my holographic body is knackered. I've been walking around all day taking pictures.

I'm off to the astral realm now...

Nite nite!!

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/3589/aesleepingju3.gif

nite nite tuck tuck :)

[king]

oh the horror in the intro, makes you wanna cry a bucket of tears, all this pain and suffering, little children and women going through some rough shit, the american flag on the holy bible.. and then, the prologue of my favorite new ager, astrology and occultism promoter, jordie maxwell.
.

are you saying what I think you are saying about Maxwell?
that he is a fraud, that he twists the facts, that he pushes New Age and occultism crappola?

[bigus_dickus]

are you saying what I think you are saying about Maxwell?
that he is a fraud, that he twists the facts, that he pushes New Age and occultism crappola?

i don't call him a fraud, he is pretty straight forward. about the rest, yes of course.

[james777]

Yes Umbrex, I watched the first 35 minutes......Quite interesting I might add, but pure speculation.

My honest, humble thoughts on this subject matter is aligned with 'Timothy Martyr'.

For those of us who understand and have enlightenment on the subject, we know that Lucifer (1) knows the score (2) is a duplicator of God and (3) Is here to kill, steal and destroy............So, of course I believe that he set these false religions and false teachings up ahead of time in order to confuse and divide us as humans, God's most prized possessions.

If you believe that film as truth, that's on you, I just know better.

[king]

i don't call him a fraud, he is pretty straight forward. about the rest, yes of course.

good... at least i am not the only one who can "read" Maxwell

[eternal_spirit]

[quote=auron;88314]Not today! Actually It was months ago i last had them!
........................

Didn't you say a while ago you'd only taken small amounts of shrooms?

Boy are you in for a surprise if you ever have a proper full blown trip lol.
You have to walk the walk before talking the talk. I'm speaking from lot's of experience. Shrooms will blow you're mind. Have fun :D if you do have a real trip. sorry bit off topic.

[kooo]

Didn't you say a while ago you'd only taken small amounts of shrooms?

Boy are you in for a surprise if you ever have a proper full blown trip lol.
You have to walk the walk before talking the talk. I'm speaking from lot's of experience. Shrooms will blow you're mind. Have fun :D if you do have a real trip. sorry bit off topic.

Have you ever done a microdot? Whoa, now they are heavy :eek:

We all went out clubbing (4 clubs over a 24 hour period) a few weeks ago and for starters I had half a bottle of vodka and a gram of marching powder and for my main course I popped 14 pills :) When we got back to someones house I had a few more vodkas for pudding, pudding is essential if you want to go to sleep. What goes up must come down ;) It was a bloody good night :D

It took me four days to get over it but hey, it was worth it. Personally, I don't like trips, don't like the distortion, I hear orange juice is good to come down off trips if it gets too heavy.

[tinmenace]

Wow! What an achievement. :)

[chris]

As Cruise said, it is completely historically inaccurate...Krishna didn't die on a cross, horus was the sky god and not at all like jesus. Nor buddha nor anyone. Osirus was closer to jesus at least he was murdered...

However there are some things in the first part of the film that was quite interesting, I just don't know why he mixed it with all the bullshit and claimed it to be true, totally discrediting himself...He could have made a great film on the sacraficial god that has been taught in all cultures, even in the tribes that have no ties to mainstream religions.

How about the way celebrities are built up and worshipped like gods and then sacrificed to the hasbeen bin...It seems to be ingrained in our consciousness.

[cheeb]

y,

[phoebe]

Wow! What an achievement. :)

Wow! You're so passive-aggressive it's unbelievable!

[kooo]

Wow! You're so passive-aggressive it's unbelievable!

I disagree!!!

She's a dried up old sea hag :D

[phoebe]

I disagree!!!

She's a dried up old sea hag :D

You're entitled to your opinion, of course ;)
But you're wrong!
She's a David Icke tagnut.
:D

(See how the smiley face at the end makes it appear as if I'm warm and friendly, but the words I speak belie a different mindset?)

[phoebe]

Have you ever done a microdot? Whoa, now they are heavy :eek:

We all went out clubbing (4 clubs over a 24 hour period) a few weeks ago and for starters I had half a bottle of vodka and a gram of marching powder and for my main course I popped 14 pills :) When we got back to someones house I had a few more vodkas for pudding, pudding is essential if you want to go to sleep. What goes up must come down ;) It was a bloody good night :D

It took me four days to get over it but hey, it was worth it. Personally, I don't like trips, don't like the distortion, I hear orange juice is good to come down off trips if it gets too heavy.


btw
you are most definitely hardCORE
Don't listen to tinmenace
She obviously has no idea what fun is.
But that's her loss. ;)

[kooo]

You're entitled to your opinion, of course ;)
But you're wrong!
She's a David Icke tagnut.
:D

(See how the smiley face at the end makes it appear as if I'm warm and friendly, but the words I speak belie a different mindset?)

A tagnut? Oooo must look that one up in a dictionary.

I would have thought a screeching strumpet would be a better description, but hey, lets not get into a fight over it :D:D

:)

Look, I've added a smiley face as well to make it look like I'm a nice person.

[logic bomb]

The "Three Kings" in Orion’s Belt did not appear until the Middle Ages

:confused:

lb

[phoebe]

A tagnut? Oooo must look that one up in a dictionary.

I would have thought a screeching strumpet would be a better description, but hey, lets not get into a fight over it :D:D

:)

Look, I've added a smiley face as well to make it look like I'm a nice person.

lol
A tagnut is:

1) a piece of poo that hangs from the hair around the anus; or
2) a person who follows someone around against their wishes.

Which definition best fits the context in which I used the word? :confused:
You decide! :)

[kooo]

lol
A tagnut is:

1) a piece of poo that hangs from the hair around the anus; or
2) a person who follows someone around against their wishes.

Which definition best fits the context in which I used the word? :confused:
You decide! :)

You've had me in stitches all day, got a cheek ache now :D