Jehovah's Witnesses view of Tsarion

[baron von lotsov]

I have been looking at Google and having figured Tsarion is a system stooge yonks ago I thought I'd see what other people thought. I typed in his name and found virtually nothing negitive. I then had to resort to typing in Tsarion Rosicrucian to see if I could find anything. Still nothing for pages and then the first sign of any common sense I got was from here.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/129827/1.ashx/Guardian+I+try+to+keep+an+open+mind,+many+don't

eg
============quote=================
Of course "Unidentified Flying Objects" are real. By definition they are something we don't know. That fly. There's lots of things I don't know. Now, if these government reports state that alien spacecraft are real, now that would be something.

and

I had never heard of Michael Tsarion, but after looking him up, I see he's of the David Icke sort... fruitcake idiots to say the least. Living in their own fantasy worlds... Conclusions based upon heresay, assumption, etc. The fact that Tsarion has also fallen into the "Indigo Children" pack and some unspecified Rosicrucian order (probably A.M.O.R.C., LOL!) only serves to decrease his relevancy.

If you are seriously postulating that Michael Tsarion deserves any credibility for his imaginative though ridiculous notions, then you should change your Board name from 'needproof', to 'needbrain', as the only thing that Michael Tsarion cannot produce is sustainable evidence.


============================
Now you know what these people are famous for. If they can suss it out why so few normal people? I used to type in his name and get 600 - 700 hits, now it is 65 000.

Weird hey?

[john white]

http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/9781/watchtowermemorialsitebma2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

???

[armoured saint]

It is amusing to note the irony of the fact that the Jehovah's Wirnesses are creations/funded by the Freemasons who have seemed to have spawned many new groups...Rosicrusians among them.

[da renn]

MY GOD/DESS!!! You truly are a ridiculous pillock, Baron.
Jehovas Witnesses and common sense??? Are you havin a laugh? Is he havin a laugh?? Come to think of it, Baron and common sense is a hilarious coupling!
So you sussed that Tsarion is a "Stooge" yonks ago did you?
Well, he ain't mate. Anyone with a degree of KNOWING, and who's a good- non prejudiced- reader of personality can tell that he's genuine. Whether everything he says is spot on, i don't believe so, but a large portion IS.
I sorely wish YOU would get a brain, but instead You have a DICK.
Get it out of your arse.
Gotta Love ya, though! X

[limelady]

.....knowing whether to trust the baron's 'commonsense' judgement
about Michael Tsarion, using the Masonic based Jehovah's Witnesses
Church to back up his claims??

http://www.rationalatheist.com/assets/fun4.png


I had never heard of Michael Tsarion, but after looking him up, I see he's of the David Icke sort... fruitcake idiots to say the least. Living in their own fantasy worlds... Conclusions based upon heresay, assumption, etc. The fact that Tsarion has also fallen into the "Indigo Children" pack and some unspecified Rosicrucian order (probably A.M.O.R.C., LOL!) only serves to decrease his relevancy.

Along with Michael Tsarion, you've just called David Icke (whose forum you are currently a guest on) a "fruitcake idiot", and in light of this statement alone, how do you expect anybody to take you very seriously?

I think I'll stick with my own commonsense for the time being, but thanks for the heads up baron :rolleyes:

I agree with da renn....this thread really is a joke and ought to be in the humor section. :D

[baron von lotsov]

.....knowing whether to trust the baron's 'commonsense' judgement
about Michael Tsarion, using the Masonic based Jehovah's Witnesses
Church to back up his claims??

http://www.rationalatheist.com/assets/fun4.png




Along with Michael Tsarion, you've just called David Icke (whose forum you are currently a guest on) a "fruitcake idiot", and in light of this statement alone, how do you expect anybody to take you very seriously?

I think I'll stick with my own commonsense for the time being, but thanks for the heads up baron :rolleyes:

I agree with da renn....this thread really is a joke and ought to be in the humor section. :D

That's right, I posted it because I found it amusing, but seriously, I did do that checking about how many people were questioning Tsarion's Rosicrucian ties. It is true that the first one I found was a Jehovah's Witness forum and I did find it ironic.

As for what they think about Icke, well unfortunately that is not the only place which makes the mental connection between Icke, space aliens, lizards and all of that. I don't go along with that idea but hey, people who ignore the negative are often trapped in a cult like state of mind. Maybe instead, people on here should interpret it as a wake up call when a known cult is calling them a cult! A cult amongst cults is not where you want to be.

As for da renn, well I'm certain he is working for the other side, so I take all of what he says with a pinch of salt. You have disinfo agents on this board and some of us least know who they are and keep tabs on them. Enough said about that though as the point of this thread is for people to take a look at themselves. You do not want to leave yourself vulnerable to these accusations and the one way to be certain that you aren't, is to check your information properly, weed out the disinfo and be able to back up what you say with evidence. If you do this already then you have nothing to worry about and such things will run like water off a ducks back.

[dondaz]

the first sign of any common sense I got was from here.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/129827/1.ashx/Guardian+I+try+to+keep+an+open+mind,+many+don't


http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u39/dazp5/sideplitter.gif

Saving the world one joke at a time eh baron?

You're a desperate man!

And for 'christs' sake would you get an avatar so I can use it to take the piss!

Otherwise I will have to use my imagination:rolleyes:

[baron von lotsov]

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u39/dazp5/sideplitter.gif

Saving the world one joke at a time eh baron?

You're a desperate man!

And for 'christs' sake would you get an avatar so I can use it to take the piss!

Otherwise I will have to use my imagination:rolleyes:


Sorry, I can't help your desire to respond by the usual childhood regression routine.

I'm just making you aware of the facts and on this occasion the JWs' have scored a point against the Icke team. What are you going to do about that, argue with the referee or figure out how to improve your performance?

[john white]

http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/9781/watchtowermemorialsitebma2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

???

You don't even know what this is do you Lotsov?

Well I'll clue you in:

Here lies Charles Taze Russell, founder of the Jehovah's Witnesses, Rosicrucian, Freemason and Illuminoid

As I have said:

You are a pawn

[john white]

I had never heard of Michael Tsarion, but after looking him up, I see he's of the David Icke sort... fruitcake idiots to say the least. Living in their own fantasy worlds...

That is a blatent LIE, and I don't see how you could delude yourself that members here are going to let you get away with it when you have been posting against Tsarion for at least 18 months

[seanx]

Baron - you're on 'duty' early today!

But God, is that the best you can come with today.

Your church leader will be most displeased.

Come on now- you can do better than that.

[sensimillia]

I had never heard of Michael Tsarion, but after looking him up, I see he's of the David Icke sort... fruitcake idiots to say the least. Living in their own fantasy worlds...

in all fairness, the above satement was a quote, not barons opinion. but yes, jehovas witnesses are a crazy misled bunch...

[john white]

in all fairness, the above satement was a quote, not barons opinion. but yes, jehovas witnesses are a crazy misled bunch...

Oops! Your right, my bad: I'll let Lotsov off that one

[baron von lotsov]

in all fairness, the above satement was a quote, not barons opinion. but yes, jehovas witnesses are a crazy misled bunch...

Indeed but they think the same about lizards. Often the NWO uses two opposite groups to justify why each group should remain loyal to its clutches. Like the classic left wing, right-wing trap. Most Labour supporters support Labour because they are motivated primarily by being anti-Tory and most Tories use the same logic in reverse. The truth is that each opposing group contains a different half of the truth and a different half of the lies. Useful idiots are what they become.

Most on here can see only one side to this conundrum that I had brought up. If you put yourselves in the opposite shoe every now and again you would see the other side, and by that you would see the whole picture and no longer be trapped in this duality, as it is referred to in NA terminology.

[john white]

Indeed but they think the same about lizards. Often the NWO uses two opposite groups to justify why each group should remain loyal to its clutches. Like the classic left wing, right-wing trap. Most Labour supporters support Labour because they are motivated primarily by being anti-Tory and most Tories use the same logic in reverse. The truth is that each opposing group contains a different half of the truth and a different half of the lies. Useful idiots are what they become.

Most on here can see only one side to this conundrum that I had brought up. If you put yourselves in the opposite shoe every now and again you would see the other side, and by that you would see the whole picture and no longer be trapped in this duality, as it is referred to in NA terminology.

Come on Lotsov:

How do you square Jehovah's witness's being an illuminati front with your sourcing them as a "sound" opinion?

Do you edit the truth out of your perception?

And no, you don't understand what duality is: you assume that it is just the "side" that doesnt agree with you

[eternal_spirit]

The marketing companies have tremendous insights into the workings of each individual, male or female, from birth to death. Every milestone you go through, they cater to you for each one, so do the self-help books, all put out by the same people.



“When you hit this age, you're going to be depressed. You need this book.” (Read all of the older authors of the self-help books that get churned out, and they're all high Masons, again.)



Then there is motivational characters, as well, who flat their arms about and tell you all you have to do is – (as you try to watch them on the stage, jumping around like a rabbit on hot coals), “Think this, think that, and so on. Just think and it will be fine. It will work for you. Think positive, but don’t listen to the negative. If you listen to the negative, negative things will happen to you,” whereas the reverse is true.

You see, if you don't look at the negative, you won't see the train coming; but that's beautiful for psychological disarmament, isn't it?

[eternal_spirit]

It's the same thing with poll taking. Polls were first put out to convince the rest, who hadn't thought this way, to go along with what they thought was the majority. That's why polls are put out.

[eternal_spirit]

Years ago, they pushed out many theories. Oh, “it was the photon belt,” the New Agers were all into that. “We're going to go through the light” and that's why the rush was on to control the world, because, “if the light hit us first we'd all wake up. The light would go on inside our heads and they couldn't control us anymore.”



That was one big theory, which is rehashed once in a while, along with Planet X. You know Planet X -- X in Roman numerals is 10. The Masons love 10: One and zero; Zero one. It's the binary code everything is based upon. The one is the male -- the high male, the illumined male, not the ordinary one down below (all us profane guys); and the zero is the female. That's what they believe. That's what they teach. They love 10. That's why Washington, DC if you speak it, (Dix) is 10 in French. They love these little code things, you see, they love it.

It’s just like Hiroshima, even though it didn't have to happen, when they dropped the bomb, they wanted to unleash this power upon the earth, to terrify everyone; and they hit it on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Hiroshima is on the 33rd degree parallel.

http://www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com/transcripts/Alan_Watt_Blurb_AtmosphericAlchemists_April262007. html

[eternal_spirit]

Remember what Bertrand Russell said after Weishaupt, who was only one member of one group of the higher freemasonry involved in the same movement of world domination. Weishaupt said, "Oh, foolish man, is there nothing you can not be made to believe?"

[seanx]

Eternal spirit wrote:

It's the same thing with poll taking. Polls were first put out to convince the rest, who hadn't thought this way, to go along with what they thought was the majority. That's why polls are put out.

Great point.

Polls are definitely designed to say to people: 'Hey, look this is how all the normal ordinary people are thinking. What's wrong with you - you're not thinking like that. Are you weird. Odd. etc

And they work. They lead public opinion.

[ms_moon]

Hello Boys and Girls,

We live in a world, currently, that is in a state of Duality. Let's break it down:

Dual- (real)ity

When you step back and observe what is occurring, it is all occurring because this is the way it is meant to be.

We are still all Beings no matter how Evil or Beautiful we may appear to be. The most evil people in the world have inside them a great beauty and once we can see this, once we can appreciate this we will see a great shift.

It is happening anyway but it may seem to be not. The shift will occur but it is upto you whether you choose to accept and flow with it, or resist it and go down with the ship.

All this resistance to other peoples opinions, other peoples beliefs and actions is merely fuel for the Global fire. If acceptance isn't inside you then you cannot accept yourself and the Mother Earth will not accept you as a result.

There are better things to do than FIGHT and disagree and that is to LOVE and ACCEPT- it will change the World people so embed it into your BEING!!

There is no right or wrong... accepting this is the key...

Lots of Love,

Jay
xxx

[baron von lotsov]

"When you step back and observe what is occurring, it is all occurring because this is the way it is meant to be. "

I think you will find the JWs are commenting on exactly this sort of thing. It's not healthy to live in a dream world in these times, it's certainly the sort of thing the elite encourage. The JWs central thesis is that there is a lack of reason being applied by David Icke and Tsarion followers.

[john white]

"When you step back and observe what is occurring, it is all occurring because this is the way it is meant to be. "

I think you will find the JWs are commenting on exactly this sort of thing. It's not healthy to live in a dream world in these times, it's certainly the sort of thing the elite encourage. The JWs central thesis is that there is a lack of reason being applied by David Icke and Tsarion followers.

Whilst living in blissful ignorance of the origins and nature of the organisation they have abdicated their soverign responsibility to!

LOL LOL LOL One couldnt make that up:

And there's no need, becuase on this planet it happens all the time

[ms_moon]

"When you step back and observe what is occurring, it is all occurring because this is the way it is meant to be. "

I think you will find the JWs are commenting on exactly this sort of thing. It's not healthy to live in a dream world in these times, it's certainly the sort of thing the elite encourage. The JWs central thesis is that there is a lack of reason being applied by David Icke and Tsarion followers.

We merely need to be aware of its occurence and feel Love inside (as difficult as it may appear) as much as we possibly can. Only by changing the way we perceive ourselves, not biting the dangling carrot and FIGHTING these things, can we truly see a changed world. Only until then can we begin to make a difference...

[kooo]

It's not healthy to live in a dream world in these times, it's certainly the sort of thing the elite encourage.

I agree. We need people that are on the ball not wet girls blouses living in la la land.

[lifeofbrian]

I have been looking at Google and having figured Tsarion is a system stooge yonks ago I thought I'd see what other people thought. I typed in his name and found virtually nothing negitive. I then had to resort to typing in Tsarion Rosicrucian to see if I could find anything. Still nothing for pages and then the first sign of any common sense I got was from here.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/129827/1.ashx/Guardian+I+try+to+keep+an+open+mind,+many+don't

eg
============quote=================
Of course "Unidentified Flying Objects" are real. By definition they are something we don't know. That fly. There's lots of things I don't know. Now, if these government reports state that alien spacecraft are real, now that would be something.

and

I had never heard of Michael Tsarion, but after looking him up, I see he's of the David Icke sort... fruitcake idiots to say the least. Living in their own fantasy worlds... Conclusions based upon heresay, assumption, etc. The fact that Tsarion has also fallen into the "Indigo Children" pack and some unspecified Rosicrucian order (probably A.M.O.R.C., LOL!) only serves to decrease his relevancy.

If you are seriously postulating that Michael Tsarion deserves any credibility for his imaginative though ridiculous notions, then you should change your Board name from 'needproof', to 'needbrain', as the only thing that Michael Tsarion cannot produce is sustainable evidence.


============================
Now you know what these people are famous for. If they can suss it out why so few normal people? I used to type in his name and get 600 - 700 hits, now it is 65 000.

Weird hey?

Baron, you agree with anybody who agrees with you. Jehova twats or fundamentalist christians, anyone is fine in your book as long as they share your scared view of the world.

Try thinking for yourself instead of trying to rally a majority to back up your neurosis and paranoia.

Mob-rule is out. 1941 came and went ages ago.

Original thought, compassion and intelligence is in.

Welcome to 2007.

[thirdwave]

1, you don't know what the Rosicrucian's are or if they have anything to do with the NWO or the illuminati......

2, you dont know that tsarion has any personal ties with them just speculation ...

3, many religious people dont like tsarion because he exposes Christianity and other religions..

4, Jehovah's whitenesses will not like him because he exposes religion...

5, David Icke type? .... the type that exposes religions?

6, Tsarion and Icke have a pretty odd way of working for the elite.... i guess the only thing they are doing is exposing religion which has been a thawn in the elites side for years and have scuppered all their plans!! ..... not.

[thirdwave]

It's not healthy to live in a dream world in these times, it's certainly the sort of thing the elite encourage.


everything is a dream world....

the "elite" just want people to live in theirs... religion is a dream world they created... they created it by manipulating truths and history.... and keeping us from our true roots.....

[freespark]

I agree. We need people that are on the ball not wet girls blouses living in la la land.

What? You mean like you?

Bwhahaha. :D Now thats funny.

[baron von lotsov]

1, you don't know what the Rosicrucian's are or if they have anything to do with the NWO or the illuminati......


What are you saying? That this upper echelon of freemasons, which is endorsed by the Queen, a committee of 300 member, has nothing to do with the elite. What books do you read?

Hmm, on second thoughts, please, I don't want to know.

This has all become too much. Once upon a time people were able to apply reason. I know schools don't teach it anymore, rather that they tell you it is better to imagine. Imagination is encouraged, art is encouraged, indeed anything that has nothing to do with reason.

I can't help you, only you can help yourself. You can lead a horse to water...

[thirdwave]

What are you saying? That this upper echelon of freemasons, which is endorsed by the Queen, a committee of 300 member, has nothing to do with the elite. What books do you read?

Hmm, on second thoughts, please, I don't want to know.

This has all become too much. Once upon a time people were able to apply reason. I know schools don't teach it anymore, rather that they tell you it is better to imagine. Imagination is encouraged, art is encouraged, indeed anything that has nothing to do with reason.

I can't help you, only you can help yourself. You can lead a horse to water...

Im saying that what info do you trust??? .... what books are telling the truth?? .... what rules do the "elite" play by ..... what do they respect...what dont they respect? .... why is evil here? .... why do we know some facts but not the rest? ....

My point is... you read something in a book....see it on a website... and then use that to prove that another book. or another website is bad or wrong... of course this is suited to what ever one compliments your religious belief....which is why IMO religion can be a weight on ones shoulder.

I do not read a David Icke book....Tsarion book.... or what ever and see what i am reading as fact and there for what one should believe.... I take it in because for me...through my experiences and through my view of the world, the books ring true.... the info seems likely and there is enough to see openly in the world to back up much of what is in those books.... there is enough info not discussed openly by people to raise the questions... I don't feel like the info is controlling me or making me think something i would not normally think anyway....

what I am aware of is there is lots of info that is thrown out with the aim to confuse people..make them paranoid and to make researching the "truth" almost impossible because there will allays be an alternative side to the info you read with different conclusions and different bad guys....

there for I don't look for the truth in books or the Internet... i enjoy getting inspiration from them but thats all they are... i look for the truth my self as i feel we all have the ability to see whats true and what is not...

do aliens exsist? .... yes of course they do ...we are aliens and there is no evidence to say that live does not elsewhere in the universe.

are they visiting us...or close to us? ... yes of course.... we can get to the moon and mars in a few thousand years of supposed evolution.... considering the universe has been there for longer than we can fathom... then my guess is a few peeps out there have taken things a tad further...

is the world run by Aliens..through a secret elite .... we know the powers of the world choose when we have wars.... I know I would never declare a war no matter what and who ever does is seriously miss guided or controlled... or evil... I know the laws of our society are fucked up.... I can see all the wrong doings of the elite.... I can also see that the vast majority of the masses don't care about religion and don't trust it.... yet religions control our societies, start our wars....

so if a few people start coming down on Tsarion and saying he is a worker for the elite then I would actually then wonder if all the elite are actually all that bad .... as the guy although i don't know him personally has allot of truth and inspirational stuff to say....

have you ever wondered that the "elite" is not infact as if one person... but have many groups with knowledge but that perhaps not all work in line with one another... and not all agree with one another??

how do you know so much considering you have all taken it all from books?? ..people right books!


Tell me this..... If Tsarion is a member of the Elite like you think he is and is connected to this Rosicrucian group then what is his main agenda? ...to warn us that there are elite groups manipulating and lieing to us in order to push us all into a NWO?? ..and that we are all staved of our true spiritual nature??

is that what the Rosicrucian group promote?? ...what are you saying his negative agenda is? and why is his name and books not in the publics eye more so???

[kooo]

What? You mean like you?

Bwhahaha. :D Now thats funny.


Freesparks Interests: Mountainboarding, bmx-ing, computer games, football

Freesparks Date of Birth: October 23 2000

Thought so.. don't worry just another ten years before you start shaving.

[thirdwave]

hey... nothing wrong with computer games and football :p

[baron von lotsov]

Tell me this..... If Tsarion is a member of the Elite like you think he is and is connected to this Rosicrucian group then what is his main agenda?

The same as Maxwell, to corrupt Christianity in order to destroy it. Whether you believe the religion or not does not alter the fact that the agenda is to corrupt it. Astro-theology is one plot, women priests and homosexuals and druids in the church is another and so too is Dan Brown and the Masonic belief that Jesus married and had children and that the elite are their descendents. Its weird stuff all right, you might argue with it or not understand why, but there is 100% consistency in their plan. I did a thread on the church but it got dumped in the religion section because it was causing people to mainly ignore the facts I was posting, the rest just argued and trolled it.

[freespark]

Freesparks Interests: Mountainboarding, bmx-ing, computer games, football

Freesparks Date of Birth: October 23 2000

Thought so.. don't worry just another ten years before you start shaving.

Wow another riveting post. :D

[seanx]

Thirdwave wrote:

everything is a dream world....

the "elite" just want people to live in theirs... religion is a dream world they created... they created it by manipulating truths and history.... and keeping us from our true roots.....

Excellent.

Their (elite) dream world is one of violence, conflict and scarcity.
They have dragged most of us into it. Into their timeline.

We have absorbed their belief implants, unconsciously make them
our own and now...by default, we are creating their
version of the dream.

Most of us now believe that this is all there is.

A five-sense prison.

We live. We die and that's the end.

A perfect belief patterns to
create waves and waves of hopeless fear and apathy in most
people.

Fear and apathy: The Energy that nourishes them.

They are literally addicted to this fear. Don't believe this?

Ask any gang leader. ( went to school with one) They are
addicted to the fear - to the pure SMELL of fear that they cause
in people. They get off on torturing a person.

Mybe it is the chemicals people give off when they
experience pure fear

And the elite; With this belief system in place: born, live, die-
meaningless VOID no wonder most people wonder: Why bother?
Why bother? What is the point?

And so we all do nothing.

These beliefs patterns are the core of their power.

Going on demo, writing letters, researching - all fine and good - but
unless we go to the power source that makes most people not
bother - nothing will ever change.

That's the knowledge that the elite want kept secret.

That reality is NOT fixed.

That we are FREE to enjoy whatever reality we want.

That we don't live in a fixed five-sense prison - but
in a living, teeming multi-universe - RIGHT NOW.

That death is not the end. Just one movement from one
dimension of awareness to another.

And the Elite KNOW all this.

Look, reading in today's paper, Rupert Murdoch, owner of News
International, the world largest communication company
is fighting to take over the the world's mayor financial publishing
company.

The man is nearly 85!

People say: Why is he bothering?
What motivates him?

Maybe Rupert KNOWS more than we do.

Maybe he knows he's not really going anywhere, vastly different
when he dies.

A dimension quite close to this? Where he can still communicate
with similar - minded people as they complete their centuries-old
goal of building certain key organizations ?

[thirdwave]

The same as Maxwell, to corrupt Christianity in order to destroy it. Whether you believe the religion or not does not alter the fact that the agenda is to corrupt it. Astro-theology is one plot, women priests and homosexuals and druids in the church is another and so too is Dan Brown and the Masonic belief that Jesus married and had children and that the elite are their descendents. Its weird stuff all right, you might argue with it or not understand why, but there is 100% consistency in their plan. I did a thread on the church but it got dumped in the religion section because it was causing people to mainly ignore the facts I was posting, the rest just argued and trolled it.


but tsarions research and beliefs are nothing like Dan Browns... how is he corrupting Christianity? .... without Christianity the elite would have much less control that they have.... I do think they are more happy to allow it til fade now because so many are now seeing that the religion has been watered down way to much and is so far from what it must have started out being...

do you not think that the light of "Christ" the placing together of hands and sitting down connecting with "God" has much to do with an altered state of consciousness rather than the bible?

I agree that the elite are attacking and always have been attacking that state of consciousness for as long as we can remember.... but today Christianity is not all about putting your hands together and connecting with the god inside us all... and connecting with the light of Christ..... Christianity never started out as a "religion" it was simply an understanding... not need to impose it... it was just there...

iNow its about following a religion... a group.... a set of guide lines...

how is Tsarion doing anything to it? .. he can only expose whats there to be exposed... he is not making anything up.... its also worth noting that he does not only direct things at Christianity... he goes into all religions... as does icke... as does maxwell.... they are usually attacked for being anti jewish more than anything... which again is not true..

[john white]

The same as Maxwell, to corrupt Christianity in order to destroy it. Whether you believe the religion or not does not alter the fact that the agenda is to corrupt it. Astro-theology is one plot, women priests and homosexuals and druids in the church is another and so too is Dan Brown and the Masonic belief that Jesus married and had children and that the elite are their descendents. Its weird stuff all right, you might argue with it or not understand why, but there is 100% consistency in their plan. I did a thread on the church but it got dumped in the religion section because it was causing people to mainly ignore the facts I was posting, the rest just argued and trolled it.

If only you didn't have your mind locked in a box you would find that astro-theology is no threat to christianity at all, and is in fact part of the completion of it. But you only know the programme you have bought from others with which to run your mind, and hence the True Glory of the Creator is hidden from you, by your shadow self that you run in fear from

women priests

There is nothing wrong with women Priests! Your only problem is you are terrified of femininity within yourself.

Jesus married and had children

You claim to be against Rome, but don't know what the faith WAS in its first 350 years!

If it wasnt for people like you Lotsov, God would never have had to send Mohammed: And then the bloody Romans messed with that!

[john white]

http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/9781/watchtowermemorialsitebma2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

???

OI LOTSOV!

JEHOVAH's
WITNESSES

ARE FOUNDED BY

THE ILLUMINATI!!!

[fccool]

Gotta love posts like these ;). It's like watching a ball game on TV. It does not matter who is the winner. Everybody will forget about it the next day. I have respect for Tsarion for stepping out. Although I see his ideas as totally out there and mostly not backed by anything but his theoretical imagination... I still respect him for trying. The only historical mention of Atlantis is unfortunatly from Plato's work. I did not find any other. In fact majority of the cultures have a universal flood story, which leads me to believe that a cataclismic flooding event did occur. But there's very little documentation on either Atlantians or Lemurians... let alone these being alien beings that populated this planet and controlled humans as a sub race. He twists everything upside down in a way. He believes that the being represented by serpent in the garden of eden was essentially a liberator. He freed the humankind from opression. So he believes that the reptilian beings are the good guys from what I take. He holds Blavatski's writings and follows these religiously. So essentially he is an occultist... and I don't think he would deny the fact if you confronted him about it. I've probably watched close to a 50 hrs of his lectures and there's lots of good stuff, unfortunatly he misqotes and misrepresents and sometimes flat out lies about some things :). As I watched the DVDs I took the liberty on pausing and veryfying the known fact.. the ones that are not disputable... definitions and etc... and many proved to be false. He was limply trying to conform the facts to back him up. If these were close enough he just slanted it to his side. Icke does not do it in his reseach... although he does make unbacked statements, but we all do.
What stuck me interesting is his preocupation with Astrology and Tarot. He views these as a positive and true things. He believes it without any explanation or reasoning behind it. To this day I have not found any reasonable explanation on how alignment of planets or deck of cards can accuratly predict future. If tarot cards can, then wouldn't that naturally mean that any cards can? Just thinking logically... it's just paper with ink on it. It is printed just like any other cards. But hence he is an occultist ... you would expect that naturally.

So to sum up. Tsarion presents great deal of knowledge. Some of it is true... lots of it is questionable, and much of it is unbacked or down right falsificated. He DOES quote much from "Holy Blood, Holy Grail"... the book where Dan Brown got the idea for Davinchi Code for, but what do you expect? The guy is an occultist. Would you expect him to be pro Christianity and jumping up and down supporting Christian ideas? I just don't understand why Christians expect non-christians to be other than what they are :) ... non-christians. Some advice to the poster here:

Yeshua (aka... Jesus) taught revolutionary ideas for his time. Some of which:

1) Money don't mean a thing... return them to "Cesar" because these are worthless.

2) Love your enemies, turn other cheek, concider everyone as more important than you. Selflesness is the greatest virtue... if somebody asks you to carry something for a mile... do it for two, if somebody asks you for a shirt... give them two.

3) Knowing truth is paramount. Religious rituals are worthless and were designed only as objective lessons of truth and do not hold truth of their own. Knowledge of God does not come through rituals but by changing the way what you think is important.

4) Morality is a state of mind. It is not what you do, but what you think.

These are just a few. There's not need to view every person as a threat to Christianity. The truth is, if what Jesus taugh is truth... then your safety and confort should be the least of your conserns... as he PROMICED that if you are following his teachings... you will be hated. By hated he meant... getting shit knocked out of you on daily bases just like what Paul suffered through. I don't think this is happening to you yet. That got to tell you something :).

Here's what I observed about modern Christians that could be best described by the following exchange. It's made up, but nevertheless to the point.

I was new in the neighbourhood and one day I got a knock on the door. There in front of me stood a couple smiling and with flowers in their hands. They handed me the flowers and the conversation went in the following manner:

they: Hi and welcome to town. You are new here we see. Here are some flowers. Would you like to kiss Hank's ass with us?

me: Thanks! Who is Hank and why should I kiss his ass?

they: Well you see, Hank is a millionaire who built this town... everything you see around you. He went away and he promiced that if you kiss his ass daily He will reward you when he comes back. But if you don't kiss his ass, he will kick you in the balls when he comes back. And he will keep on kicking you forever.

me: Why would anybody want to kick me in the balls? That's pretty harsh.

they: You see it seems harsh, but it is fair. Hank built this town and the original settlers disobeyed him and littered. As a result everybody who comes in the town litters. Hank has no choice but to kick your balls, but he is gracious enough to let you off if you just admit that you are a litterer and kiss his ass.

me: Sounds pretty strange. I don't know about that. How did you learn about that. Did he tell you that?

they: Well, no. Nobody sees Hank really.

me: Well, how do you know he exists? If nobody seen him... how do I suppose to kiss his ass?

they: We know that he exists because of the town that he has built. Some other people who seen him also wrote down letters to prove that he exists too. And in the letters they describe what he did and what he is going to do. As far as kissing his ass, you don't have to kiss his ass directly, you can just kiss Larry's ass. We listen to Larry every Sunday, and he has a pretty good idea about Hank. We feed Larry and kiss his as to make sure that when Hank get's back he does not kick us in the balls. and he is coming back, you better believe it.

me: Did anybody else see Hank recently?

they: Well, of course! The people who moved out of town did. They say if you move out of town... Hank will house you temporarily in his mantion intill he comes back with them here to either give you a million bucks or kick you in the balls. Unfortunatly for us they never came back to tell us how great Hank is.

me: Well, how do you know that they saw Hank?

they: What are you, stupid? It says so right here in Hanks letters. It also says that in order to properly kiss Hanks ass... you need to piss only in the kitchen sink. Eat hotdogs without buns and 8 other things that are pretty much a standard around here. But nobody really can follow those perfectly... that's why you have to kiss Hanks ass to avoid a kick in the balls. So come with us to our gathering place. We have a giant statue of Hanks ass that we kiss every Sunday whule signing songs to him. We also have to pay him a tribute. Hank does not need our money, but Larry does... and it is one of the ways of kissing Hank's ass.

me: Those are pretty wild claims without substantial proof... how can you kiss somebody's ass based on those?

they: How about the town that you live in? And how about the letters... they say that Hank exists.

me: Well... Somebody stopped by two hours ago and say that I should kiss Bob's ass. How do I know they are wrong and you are right? I don't think I'm ready to belive that yet. But thank you for stopping by.

they: It will be sad watching you getting kicked in the balls while I'm counting my million when Hank comes back.




I'll stop now, and I apologize if I offended you in any way. But the point is... you approach people as these two approached me in this made up story. You have to let people make their own decisions. That's the whole message of the true Christianity. Our greatest gift is our ability to make independent choices. I don't believe that stars or tarot decide for us... we do. Your choice is all that matters... not Tsarion's choice, not GWs choice. Yours. So don't be surprised when you "knock on doors" and get kick in the balls instead of a welcome. Learn to respect people's choices and belief, no matter how stupid these may seem to you. I believe in Biblical God and Jesus's teachings as a way to salvation (from self destruction). I would not expect everyone to agree with me. And that's the beauty of the choice. I learn to respect and learn from other people's ideas and beliefs and respect these. I don't expect the same from you, but I think you should too... otherwise why are you here, but to push your own agenda? ;)

[lottie]

Makes me laugh when people think that the likes of Tsarion and Icke have just plucked ideas out of the air and come up with a theory! These people have spent the best part of their LIVES researching this information- even after 18mths of me looking into conspiracies and the like i havnt even scratched the surface- although i feel im educated enough to have a small opinion on the matter- but people think they just come up with the idea- they have spent probably my entire lifetime researching- Tsarion has been researching 30yrs and Icke around 20yrs- and Baron-von-lotsov knows better after checking out one article!!:rolleyes:


ROFL!!!!! :D:p:D

[king]

I have been looking at Google and having figured Tsarion is a system stooge yonks ago I thought I'd see what other people thought. I typed in his name and found virtually nothing negitive. I then had to resort to typing in Tsarion Rosicrucian to see if I could find anything. Still nothing for pages and then the first sign of any common sense I got was from here.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/129827/1.ashx/Guardian+I+try+to+keep+an+open+mind,+many+don't

eg
============quote=================
Of course "Unidentified Flying Objects" are real. By definition they are something we don't know. That fly. There's lots of things I don't know. Now, if these government reports state that alien spacecraft are real, now that would be something.

and

I had never heard of Michael Tsarion, but after looking him up, I see he's of the David Icke sort... fruitcake idiots to say the least. Living in their own fantasy worlds... Conclusions based upon heresay, assumption, etc. The fact that Tsarion has also fallen into the "Indigo Children" pack and some unspecified Rosicrucian order (probably A.M.O.R.C., LOL!) only serves to decrease his relevancy.

If you are seriously postulating that Michael Tsarion deserves any credibility for his imaginative though ridiculous notions, then you should change your Board name from 'needproof', to 'needbrain', as the only thing that Michael Tsarion cannot produce is sustainable evidence.


============================
Now you know what these people are famous for. If they can suss it out why so few normal people? I used to type in his name and get 600 - 700 hits, now it is 65 000.

Weird hey?

Tsarion is ex Rosicrucian, by his own admission.
I think of him as a science fiction writer (a bad one too) who sells his
fiction as fact, who would still peddle Crowley, Blavatski and other New Age crap -- if he was not busted, as he is.
He is trained by his mentor Maxwell, who is buddy buddy with illuminati agenturs. Occasionally, he makes up the shit that is easy to pick up for what it is -- pure B.S, and or fear mongering.

After Tsarion got exposed for what he is -- an illuminati agent -- he stopped peddling Crowley, Blavatski and Altlantian Mark 1,2,3 & 4 GM beings and he got into origins of Irish civilization and quasi psychology. Nowadays he blames our mental state for our predicament, that is when he does not talk about Irish civilization. It sure seems to me that he is loosing it, cannot keep up with B.S. that he is pushing as truth, so his repertoire is very narrow now.

BTW, i got feeling that Tsarion's job is now to "buy some time" by keeping us mesmerized while greatest changes are unfolding.
This is just my gut feeling. If you think carefully -- your will see that his information is very fascinating, but no substance to it whatsoever.
When he gives out interviews he dwells on one subject way too long, he controls the radio hosts, as is most evident with his Red Ice interviews with Henrik Pomgrean.


Tsarion, just like Maxwell is always trying to knock down monotheistic religions, especially Christianity.
I find that pattern very interesting and i always wonder why does he have to mention how screwed up religions are when we already know it....
in actuality i know the answer -- he is told to do so, shake up the monotheistic tree, and get them apples in New Age cult.
If he does -- a few more people who are put back to sleep, just in another bed, and if they join New Age cult -- their brains will be defused.... and kept busy with one of many "bread and circuses" that NA religion provides.


BTW, it was Maxwell who convinced Icke that Jesus never lived, before Icke decided to part ways with Maxwell. We can see the agenda there, don't we?
Why do they put so much effort in "dying religions" is what is very, very puzzling.
Why does it matter if a religious figure lived or not if religion is a bunkum?

And, Tsarion is getting bit old with his psycho analysis of populace, whom he said are the cause of the world's problem. He does not mention that if you are indoctrinated since the birth, born to a matrix of illusion and control -- you as a regular sheep have no clue what is going on. so, how can you judge those
who are clueless and indoctrinated?

And, interestingly, Maxwel and Tsarion do not mention new science, the true religion that we really need to fear, with scalars, chemtrails, GWEN/Cell/Tetra towers.
See where I am going?
Those are the major issues, major changes that affect us now and that will affect future of humanity. Why the fuck do I care if Akenathon has done this or that?
But, i do care about above mentioned changes and oppression and loss of freedom that is happening NOW.


anyways, back to deciphering Tsarion..
All you have to do is notice the patterns and look the evidence openly and you will see that this is exactly so. No matter how clever people like Tsarion and Maxwell think they are -- if you are persistent you will be able to discern
whom they work for, sooner or later.

BTW, if Tsarion was smarter -- he would cry for donations, because his DVD productions are high end and you need to have some serious money to pull that one as he did. And, do not forget that he has 7 web sites that are professionally maintained, webmaster and all. And, i am willing to bet that there is a team of writers helping him with videos and web site.. Where did that money came from? It sure came from somewhere..... black ops maybe?

[kblood]

Funny post fccool :)

Btw even though Jesus didnt believe money to matter, he and his followers still had a "treasure" which contained all the money they had gotten from begging, supporters and in whatever ways they went about. I believe I know what happened to this treasure after the crucification. The one who was keeper of the treasury happened to be Judas Iscariot. I dont know if anything is written about the what happened to the treasury after the crucification though.

As far as I know the riches they had were spent to further good *courses of course. (Probable spelling error there. Hope its still understandable). It seems Judas thought that they shouldnt have spent as much as they did, buying ointments and oil for when Jesus were to be prepared for his burial chamber.

Im not accurate on the bible stories, but most of this I learned from a discovery program I think it was. I dont believe they would dare to make a documentary on discovery that wasnt following the exact writings of the bible. If there are any "exact" writings in the bible at all, but some seem to be.

[king]

Makes me laugh when people think that the likes of Tsarion and Icke have just plucked ideas out of the air and come up with a theory! These people have spent the best part of their LIVES researching this information- even after 18mths of me looking into conspiracies and the like i havnt even scratched the surface- although i feel im educated enough to have a small opinion on the matter- but people think they just come up with the idea- they have spent probably my entire lifetime researching- Tsarion has been researching 30yrs and Icke around 20yrs- and Baron-von-lotsov knows better after checking out one article!!:rolleyes:


ROFL!!!!! :D:p:D

18 months of research is a conspiracy toddler
:D
i can tell that Baron has spent more time on research that than you have.
I know, i can tell after 8 years who is on what level of awareness by simply reading their posts.

sorry buddy, but you still need to learn a lot.
read my previous post for pointers.

did you think that big bad illuminati who plan everything for decades, even centuries have overlooked the possibility that there will be conspiracy researchers who would challenge them on internet that they so kindly gave to us?
don't you think that they would plant their own people?

may i point you to DARPA logo,so that you can understand the game a bit better?

http://www.dojgov.net/darpa_seal_large.gif

what does it say in English?
what does it say in Latin?
add those 2 together

and, have you wondered WHY there is no organized resistance to NWO plans?

[thirdwave]

it seems many people want to judge a book by its cover... or the cover some have placed on it.... rather than as Tsarion once put.. "judge the tree by its fruit"

people like Crowley can be seen as evil by many.... but most of what he said was humour.... if anything the only thing he was guilty of was being so aloof and disrespectfull to the ignorent .... he simply did not care that people thought he was a satanist... when in reality he was basilcy the words first rock star...

when he said stuff like "I sacrificed thousands of babies" ...he found it very funny as when the church reacted in up roar they were so wound up they did not even know that he was infact refuring to having a wank...

now he was no angel and certainly had his bad points... but he was also very spirituel and understood that he created his own life and no Christian who is getting him wrong can create it for him.... so he simply did not care and enjoyed playing with them and watching them react to him.... like toys...

I see that a little in tsarion... i dont think he cares that some view him as a satanist...or what ever...

you dont create "possaative" energy by banning "negative".... you learn how to deal with negative to create your possative....

not all negative energy is "evil" as we view it...

for example .... you could imagin in your head stabbing someone to death in great detail.... imagin being the killer your self ..... imagin enjoying it and praying to satan afterwards.... imagin licking the blood off the knife....

ok after imagining that ar you evil? ...or creative? ..i could make a song or paint a picture about it.... would that picture be evil? .... it could be buetifull...the expresion of negative energy and the sadistic nature of it... but it is not a choice of action...it is not what i have decided to inflict on anyone...its simply a creation within my head of negative energy being created...

many religions would see this as evil and satanic.... when in reality its not, its art.

If you hear about a man that was stabbed to death at a tube station.... a religious view would be to cower and greeve at the news.... hence kneeling at the feet of the killer, ...... why not laugh at how stupid it was to do that..... it should be understood automatically that you are not laughing at the creation of pain.... but at the stupidity of the hole thing.....

this kind of thing is where I think religion goes wrong.... you are un able to use your own morals and then be free.... your reasons are monitored and there is no freedom .... so there can be no true positive energy created from it because you are only "being good" because your not allowed to be bad.... not because you UNDERSTAND that being bad is not in your over all interests...

[thirdwave]

18 months of research is a conspiracy toddler
:D
i can tell that Baron has spent more time on research that than you have.
I know, i can tell after 8 years who is on what level of awareness by simply reading their posts.

sorry buddy, but you still need to learn a lot.
read my previous post for pointers.

did you think that big bad illuminati who plan everything for decades, even centuries have overlooked the possibility that there will be conspiracy researchers who would challenge them on internet that they so kindly gave to us?
don't you think that they would plant their own people?

may i point you to DARPA logo,so that you can understand the game a bit better?

http://www.dojgov.net/darpa_seal_large.gif

what does it say in English?
what does it say in Latin?
add those 2 together

and, have you wondered WHY there is no organized resistance to NWO plans?


they give us researchers?.... they give us Internet? .... you flatter them... they have had no choice but to allow the Internet,... they cant stop everything you know, thats why they want to impose the NWO...so they can..... If what Tsarion...Maxwell..preach is created by the elites agenda, then given the power you have implied they have....why is this info not vastly spread around the globe rather than scattered around you tube where very few people come across it or understand it.

Im afraid you or anyone cant say they know the truth based on what you have read.... only from your experience and what you think..... for me anyone that is implying that Christianity is a thawn in the side of the people who are manipulating our world is just off the mark as I have known since primary school when i was asked to eat the body of Jesus, drink his blood.... and kneel infront of his body bleeding to death on a cross, that IMV it was full of brown Sauce...

Tsarion...Maxwell...Icke.... dont need to teach me that.

are your views the same as Barons in that you think Tsarion is here to destroy Christianity?... what do you think is the good he is doing for the elite?

[kblood]

18 months of research is a conspiracy toddler
:D
i can tell that Baron has spent more time on research that than you have.
I know, i can tell after 8 years who is on what level of awareness by simply reading their posts.

sorry buddy, but you still need to learn a lot.
read my previous post for pointers.

did you think that big bad illuminati who plan everything for decades, even centuries have overlooked the possibility that there will be conspiracy researchers who would challenge them on internet that they so kindly gave to us?
don't you think that they would plant their own people?

may i point you to DARPA logo,so that you can understand the game a bit better?

http://www.dojgov.net/darpa_seal_large.gif

what does it say in English?
what does it say in Latin?
add those 2 together

and, have you wondered WHY there is no organized resistance to NWO plans?

What does that Latin stuff mean? Science is possibility? Seems spanish to me, but then I havent learned any latin, only similar languages that had latin as part of their basics. I know a bit of 3 different languages so far, so im not sure I even count as multilingual(Is that a word?).

I believe that all people have good intentions. Name me one that has nothing but evil intentions, and I am certain I can proove that there were some goodness behind some of that persons intentions. Same goes for Tsarion. So far all I have seen from him is controversial, funny or insightfull. He seems like the kind of guy that did alot of things just to see how others would react to it. I do that as well sometimes. Helps to make you understand the people who respond to it, and maybe why they respond to it the way they do.

Please correct me if im wrong. Also to expose someone like the real people behind the Illuminati, someone would have to be made to slip their tongue and tell about who the people running Illuminati is. It does seem David might have some info on who that might be, but I am not done reading yet. This forum is has soo much nice information on it that I have a hard time getting back to the reading :p I wish I would make it run on an offline browser so I could read posts in the forum on my laptop when Im not connected to the Internet :)

[ms_moon]

Just a quick point to make which i feel you may all be interested in. Collar and Cuffs... Where do the 'Collar' and 'Cuffs' originate? The SLAVE TRADE...

So if you see someone in great power in a suit- they are a slave. If you see someone in great power WITHOUT a suit... then you make your own judgement as to who or what they may be.

But something very important and potent to remember, is that ultimately a SLAVE is also an ENSLAVER. We do it to ourselves everyday. We feel trapped, stuck, out-of-control with what is going on internally and externally, feeling as though we can't do anything to SAVE the WORLD... but while we are doing this we are acting as a SLAVE. A slave to the conditioned mind and therefore we become the enslaver of ourselves.

While we do this, it is reflected in the external world around us in events, situations, places, people...

We need to free OURSELVES first before the World can be free and finally see Peace.

Lots of Love,

Jay
xxx

[eternal_spirit]

multilingual(Is that a word?)

He seems like the kind of guy that did alot of things just to see how others would react to it. I do that as well sometimes. Helps to make people show their true nature in fact.

Please correct me if im wrong.

LOl are you joking, multilingual means you can speak and understand more than one language. :D

Why if he's a so called serious researcher would he play games to see how others would react? and who are these others? His audience or do you mean someone else? something doesn't add up if he's playing games. unless his intention is to mislead and confuse.

[eternal_spirit]

It strikes me strange that Tarison would advocate Blavatsky and Crowley. Icke has nothing good to say about this terrible duo, he exposes them for what they are New Age, satanic, masonic merchants, peddling their crap on way too many unsuspecting individuals. Both were members of numerous secret societies dedicated to channeling the ascended masters.

[fccool]

Funny post fccool :)

Btw even though Jesus didnt believe money to matter, he and his followers still had a "treasure" which contained all the money they had gotten from begging, supporters and in whatever ways they went about. I believe I know what happened to this treasure after the crucification. The one who was keeper of the treasury happened to be Judas Iscariot. I dont know if anything is written about the what happened to the treasury after the crucification though.

As far as I know the riches they had were spent to further good *courses of course. (Probable spelling error there. Hope its still understandable). It seems Judas thought that they shouldnt have spent as much as they did, buying ointments and oil for when Jesus were to be prepared for his burial chamber.

Im not accurate on the bible stories, but most of this I learned from a discovery program I think it was. I dont believe they would dare to make a documentary on discovery that wasnt following the exact writings of the bible. If there are any "exact" writings in the bible at all, but some seem to be.

Ahahaha,

Treasure? I'd like to see the "discovery" program who put that stuff on. Those people will put anything on air. Jesus seemed to be dirt poor throughut his life, and he died without anything. Him and disciples were walking around and living practicly on bare minimum. For example by the time of cermon on the mountain they only had 5 loaves of bread and 2 fishes to give. Jesus had to perform a miracle to pay Temple tax... they were broke. Judas did not have any treasure to keep. He sold out for 30 pieces of silver... you know the story. Where they got the ointments and the expensive tomb.... one of the close Jesus followers donated those after his death. It's well recorded. Not a word about the "treasure". So turn off the box, dude. You don't have to believe me... just turn that thing off. You'll be better off. I have not watched TV for years. If I want a certain documentary... these are all out on DVD or on newsgroups nowerdays. alt.binaries.documentaries , or alt.binaries.conspiracy you'll find tons of good ones there.
As far as Tsarion and Icke plucking Ideas out of the air... thy do not. What the common tecnique among these kind of researchers is.

1) Present undeniable information with lots of backing first. I.e. secret societies, Illuminati symbolism, hidden history revealed, 911 conspiracy... then..

2) Present information that does not have undeniable backing but is a scientific THEORY.

3) Once they have gained the audience trust they jump waaaaaay ahead and then present ideas which backed by nothing other than heresay evidence. Something along the lines of : people have told me...., one of the NWO scientists revealed to me .... , other researchers have concluded. They put these together and make their own theories... such as : Interdimentional Reltilian Beings drink blood and rule the world. Or, Alien beings created human race and then different alien beings freed us and gave us technology.

So both of them mix shit with honey and feed it to the masses, and these swollow it and enjoy it with little questions at all. You hear stuff like... well he's done years of research to come up with stuff, or... everything fits together pretty well so it must be true.

Don't get me wrong. As I've said in previous post, I have tremendous respect for what these people are doing. Yet I don't believe everything they present to be truth. Much of it you have to take for what it is.... EDUCATED GUESS... a THEORY.... Nothing more, nothing less. You as a person don't even know stuff that goes on in your bosses office, let alone behind government's closed doors... let alone behind the veil of secret societies. They are secred for a reason. And they let you know certain information for a reason... Control. Research can amount to pile of dung in areas of secrecy and conceiled knowledge. Research means just that .... RE-SEARCH. You can only search so far... because there're trails of disinformation upon trails of disinformation... which looks good on surface, but is disinformation nevetheless.
But then again, maybe... just maybe... Icke comes up with reptile stuff just so elites leave him alone as a "nutcase" and say that no one will believe him... which would be a clever tactic if he did.

As far as Tsarion goes... the fact that he follows Blavatski and Crowley as positive teachings makes him an occultist. Whether is is a positive or negative thing is up to you to decide.

[bigus_dickus]

good post fccool!

i work as a network administrator, so here is a little funny story of my life.

a few years back, our company didn't have computers and the employees were computer illiterate. i practically created the whole network, the servers and brought the internet, even the email to my users.

their first reaction to this was: "why would we need the internet and personal email addresses?". i was like "you will understand in the near future".

at first, there was a problem. the users were dangerous, because they didn't know how to handle data and used to jam the network and create bottlenecks. what i had to do as god (:p i mean lord of the network), was restrict a lot of sensitive objects and secure it as much as possible, consequently taking away most of their freedom. there was information there, but if people didn't know how to handle it, they would bring the whole network down and then my ass was on fire, spending whole weekends trying to restore data and get everything to work smoothly again.

as the years passed, the users got more educated in computers and the internet, so i allowed more freedom to them. still, sensitive data should be hidden, as they didn't need to know about it to do their tasks. they soon found out how useful it was to share information through the internet and the LAN, they learned how to be careful of possible dangers and traps, so that from a point onwards, they were trusted and allowed to be the administrators of their computers (individuals).

then, my job in keeping their data safe got easier for me, so the God (:p) could sit back and relax and enjoy everything running well without the need to intervene so much. still they don't need to know everything that goes on in the background, because if they did, it would be quite easy to destroy everything by mistake.

my users (all of them!) think that i am a magician and that i work magic on the machines, like.. they jam, but they start working as soon as i approach or touch them, which of course is not the case.

still, they think that the machines are scared of me (LOL). a co-worker told me this today once again, i told her "they are not scared of me, they love me because i love them. so, you should treat them with good care as i do". and she agreed :)

[baron von lotsov]

BTW, if Tsarion was smarter -- he would cry for donations, because his DVD productions are high end and you need to have some serious money to pull that one as he did. And, do not forget that he has 7 web sites that are professionally maintained, webmaster and all. And, i am willing to bet that there is a team of writers helping him with videos and web site.. Where did that money came from? It sure came from somewhere..... black ops maybe?

Maybe the answer is closer to home. Some people say they pay more for their water bill than their electricity bill. Going back a few decades water was virtually free, just a few quid to cover the bill, but now even electricity has doubled in the last couple of years. Odd don't you think when if you look at other industries like DVD players and TVs. A supermarket was selling a 21" TV for £50 and a DVD player for £15. Now if they can make certain things so cheap where do all the billions in profit go from other industries? In Iran petrol is 2p per litre. Someone once estimated that more than 2/3rds of the military budget is propaganda. However the propaganda does not stop at creating an influx of dirty porn smut to Iraq once conquered. Oh no, it circles around the rich tax-free foundations peddling 'good causes'. Good for the masons that is.

[berten60]

"...The JWs central thesis is that there is a lack of reason being applied by David Icke and Tsarion followers.

As a ex-JW I can tell you that their "central thesis" is certainly not the one you stated above.:rolleyes:

[baron von lotsov]

As a ex-JW I can tell you that their "central thesis" is certainly not the one you stated above.:rolleyes:


I meant with this current issue we are talking about, not JWs' as a whole. Indeed here we see JWs' thinking outside of the box, as it is known as.

I personally think their so-called cult like status is overplayed somewhat considering there are far worse cults around, e.g. the Raelians. I had a couple turn up at my door the other day and they didn't exhibit the normal telltale signs of brainwashing, in fact they were very polite. I suppose it depends on the individual to some extent.

[eternal_spirit]

Is Tsarion a Jew?

[kooo]

My grandmother was a Jehovah Witness, I used to go to church with her as a child.

[kblood]

Ahahaha,

Treasure? I'd like to see the "discovery" program who put that stuff on. Those people will put anything on air. Jesus seemed to be dirt poor throughut his life, and he died without anything. Him and disciples were walking around and living practicly on bare minimum. For example by the time of cermon on the mountain they only had 5 loaves of bread and 2 fishes to give. Jesus had to perform a miracle to pay Temple tax... they were broke. Judas did not have any treasure to keep. He sold out for 30 pieces of silver... you know the story. Where they got the ointments and the expensive tomb.... one of the close Jesus followers donated those after his death. It's well recorded. Not a word about the "treasure". So turn off the box, dude. You don't have to believe me... just turn that thing off. You'll be better off. I have not watched TV for years. If I want a certain documentary... these are all out on DVD or on newsgroups nowerdays. alt.binaries.documentaries , or alt.binaries.conspiracy you'll find tons of good ones there.
As far as Tsarion and Icke plucking Ideas out of the air... thy do not. What the common tecnique among these kind of researchers is.

1) Present undeniable information with lots of backing first. I.e. secret societies, Illuminati symbolism, hidden history revealed, 911 conspiracy... then..

2) Present information that does not have undeniable backing but is a scientific THEORY.

3) Once they have gained the audience trust they jump waaaaaay ahead and then present ideas which backed by nothing other than heresay evidence. Something along the lines of : people have told me...., one of the NWO scientists revealed to me .... , other researchers have concluded. They put these together and make their own theories... such as : Interdimentional Reltilian Beings drink blood and rule the world. Or, Alien beings created human race and then different alien beings freed us and gave us technology.

So both of them mix shit with honey and feed it to the masses, and these swollow it and enjoy it with little questions at all. You hear stuff like... well he's done years of research to come up with stuff, or... everything fits together pretty well so it must be true.

Don't get me wrong. As I've said in previous post, I have tremendous respect for what these people are doing. Yet I don't believe everything they present to be truth. Much of it you have to take for what it is.... EDUCATED GUESS... a THEORY.... Nothing more, nothing less. You as a person don't even know stuff that goes on in your bosses office, let alone behind government's closed doors... let alone behind the veil of secret societies. They are secred for a reason. And they let you know certain information for a reason... Control. Research can amount to pile of dung in areas of secrecy and conceiled knowledge. Research means just that .... RE-SEARCH. You can only search so far... because there're trails of disinformation upon trails of disinformation... which looks good on surface, but is disinformation nevetheless.
But then again, maybe... just maybe... Icke comes up with reptile stuff just so elites leave him alone as a "nutcase" and say that no one will believe him... which would be a clever tactic if he did.

As far as Tsarion goes... the fact that he follows Blavatski and Crowley as positive teachings makes him an occultist. Whether is is a positive or negative thing is up to you to decide.

As I also tried to write, I the treasury wasnt used much. Especially not on themselves to look good or to be better fed than those they tried to help. I hoped you didnt believe what I wrote blindly. Otherwise the feedback I would get wouldnt be of much use to me anyway. I guess my source is wrong then. Isnt something I planned to get into yet anyway. You seem very well versed in what the bible says, so I choose to believe that it doesnt have anything about a treasury among the disciples. Regarding heresy, you would probably not like me if you knew how far I have taken heresy to get the knowledge I seek. If any religious beliefs had any true self aware gods behind them, I ought to have been struck by something nasty and lethal several times in my lifetime. So far it hasnt gone being nasty anyway, for reasons I still try to understand. Then the biblical god doesnt seem to confront sinners directly or most other religions isnt claiming either, so they do have a valid answer for that as well.

I havent found any real proof that being a cult leader or a cultist is actually more wrong than religions or other kinds of belief systems. The basic idea behind cults anyway. What I am trying to say is that starting a cult and being a good cult leader might actually spread good in the world. Without knowing the cult members or the cult leader, im not even sure I can honestly say wether they are wrong or not. If they being doing mass suicide or live like rich kings on the offerings of their followers... that is when I am sure something went wrong. Unless maybe the followers were given something similar to make their life that much better, in regards to materialistic wealth. Some cults seem much too happy about exchanging everything a follower owns, for the change to live with monk like people and make your own food. If it is to show money doesnt matter then why would be cult leaders need the money? I really doubt it would only go to a "further our beliefs" fund that only would be used for good intentions.

To have followers is indeed not a wrong deed. To help further enlightenment and awareness is important. I cant say at the moment wether the teachings Tsarion are flawed, at least not much more than David Icke's. They dont much seem to from what I have read at least. The reptilian theory lacks evidence as I see it as well, but he does have alot of good points that does seem to place reptiles as some very special beings in several belief systems and with all the symbolism David has refered to.

For instance the snake in the garden of eden. It is a symbol of the devil the way we have interpreted the bible as far. How it acts and how it convinces Eve to eat the apple, does follow the Illuminati "agenda" quite well, and seems very similar to how they operate. I just cant remember any other points than this one refering to reptiles as satanic beings. I guess David has several more, but rarely based on hard facts. If they are what he claims them to be though, I wouldnt count on any hard facts unless I found them myself, and I still wouldnt be able to give any hard facts. Shapeshifting can be done in less than a second as far as I know, so catching them at the right moment would be just about impossible, and thereafter you would have to proof that the photo isnt something made by a computer.

So that is my reason for not completely discarding what David has written about these reptiles. About how they keep us in a dream world, that is something I have a hard time believing. Seems inspired by the matrix movie mostly, but then I haven looked into what philosophies the matrix was based on, other than Ghost in the Machine. A very interesting show as well. If you disregard it for being cartoons, I wont think you openminded to the different media streams ;)

[berten60]

I meant with this current issue we are talking about, not JWs' as a whole. Indeed here we see JWs' thinking outside of the box, as it is known as..
What you perceive as "JW's Thinking outside of the box" is their reaction to
anything they don't agree with.Tsarion has no special status,he is thrown on the same heap by the JW's as for example the catholic church,or the protestant,or whatever brand of christianism that is not theirs.Or any sort of belief or non-belief that is different from theirs.

I personally think their so-called cult like status is overplayed somewhat considering there are far worse cults around, e.g. the Raelians. I had a couple turn up at my door the other day and they didn't exhibit the normal telltale signs of brainwashing, in fact they were very polite. I suppose it depends on the individual to some extent.

I think you underestimate them,this cult has done alot of damage in the past and is still doing so (No blood transfusion,child abuse,broken-up families...)

[thirdwave]

It strikes me strange that Tarison would advocate Blavatsky and Crowley. Icke has nothing good to say about this terrible duo, he exposes them for what they are New Age, satanic, masonic merchants, peddling their crap on way too many unsuspecting individuals. Both were members of numerous secret societies dedicated to channeling the ascended masters.


this is one thing I would like to question David Icke about.... While it was clear Crowley was not an angel.... he was extremely spiritual ..understood about the ego, understood about creating your reality and about how clueless the masses where.... "The week and the vulgar"...( a few of those on the old icke forum)

the main thing I don't like about Crowley is that he seemed to focus more on playing games with the masses... rather than try to educate them ...but looking at some of the narrow minded sheep nowadays, you cant blame him for not giving a damn about them....

I think one thing people over look about Crowley is the pure sense of hummer aspect.... and the pure pleasure in shocking people and seeing the over reactions.

for someone who wanted "a world where all are free with no restrictions and no boundaries" and is branded a devil worshiper.... well that just raises questions about devil worshiping...

I think in many cases its miss understanding "devil worshiping", who knows what the devil is anyway?

just because a group of arse holes worship an ikon and use it for their advantage.... it does not mean the ikon is evil.... just being used by some for evil.

the freemasons hated Crowley because he exposed so much of there secrets.... he was not on anyones side, he was on his own ride and did not care what people thought, infact he got off on people thinking he was a devil worshipper...

[thirdwave]

Is Tsarion a Jew?

im not sure what he is.... i don't think he is committed to any religion as such... just spirituality as he understands it....

[baron von lotsov]

What you perceive as "JW's Thinking outside of the box" is their reaction to
anything they don't agree with.Tsarion has no special status,he is thrown on the same heap by the JW's as for example the catholic church,or the protestant,or whatever brand of christianism that is not theirs.Or any sort of belief or non-belief that is different from theirs.



I think you underestimate them,this cult has done alot of damage in the past and is still doing so (No blood transfusion,child abuse,broken-up families...)

Yeh but what you read in the media and what actually happens are often two totally different things. I tend to take the trouble sometimes to speak to these people to figure them out and on one or two occasions my prejudice built up from what is popularly thought does not fit well with the reality of the situation.

This forum I found is a case in point, rather than just brush it off and reject it as soon as the words Jehovah's Witnesses are read I like to check things. My understanding is that the anti religious cult and the JW cult are just two opposite polarities and specifically designed by the elite to keep people busy on inconsequential arguing, while the masons are free to get to work on their agenda. Nearly all of this agenda goes by without the slightest alarm bell ringing. My advice is to learn how psychology works because with a pair of psychology glasses everything will come into view. Add to that a mathematical understanding of system design and you have cracked it. And I'll say this right now; the real scams are in the most unlikely of places and not at all what most people think they are.

[thirdwave]

Yeh but what you read in the media and what actually happens are often two totally different things. I tend to take the trouble sometimes to speak to these people to figure them out and on one or two occasions my prejudice built up from what is popularly thought does not fit well with the reality of the situation.

This forum I found is a case in point, rather than just brush it off and reject it as soon as the words Jehovah's Witnesses are read I like to check things. My understanding is that the anti religious cult and the JW cult are just two opposite polarities and specifically designed by the elite to keep people busy on inconsequential arguing, while the masons are free to get to work on their agenda. Nearly all of this agenda goes by without the slightest alarm bell ringing. My advice is to learn how psychology works because with a pair of psychology glasses everything will come into view. Add to that a mathematical understanding of system design and you have cracked it. And I'll say this right now; the real scams are in the most unlikely of places and not at all what most people think they are.

the thing is... if you have looked into a religion..its beliefs and ways.... and you feel it is not correct...not truth... so on....

then of course you brush views that are based around it off..... because you would feel that there is no point as those views would be built up around that religion... and even if some of the views are right... it would only be by mistake...

one must think for ones self.... not how a book says you should.... books are for educating and informing... or entertaining.... not for dictating...

[baron von lotsov]

Much of this forum is a combination of belief and people being swept along by some guru who is often no more than a professional brainwasher. Did you see the latest..., down load this or that video etc. Not much in the way of people thinking for themselves, but very quick to attack others who dare to, or to just ignore them.

Now if you wonder why the NWO runs Christian groups as well, it is for exactly the same reason as they promote their rightwing groups like the BNP. I'd say the BNP have done more to keep the Socialists in power than anything else and I think it is just the same with Christian cults.

Naturally a Christian cult is a huge oxymoron but look at it from the social engineering perspective with the desired outcome to destroy the Christian church and replace it with a one world religion. You see the NWO did not write the Bible, indeed the Bible is against any such overbearing and fascist state. The Bible would rather have people controlling themselves, but you see this is not the NWO plan and hence it is made out to be repressive. Now if they say that telling people to control their own selves is a restriction on their freedom, well consider the plan is to replace this self control for state control of people and this will be demanded by those who run to the state for their protection. It's the largest protection racket in the world. (Tsarion is in with them.)

[ms_moon]

There would be nothing wrong with a One World belief that we are all One and part of the same though would there?

This is what is happening already and people are waking up to their One-ness.

The whole New World Order thing is going to backfire (if that's the right word) and people will be joined in a New World of Peace and Love.

The New World Order will be the order of Love but it must be allowed to run its course without resistance and with acceptance of what is neccesary in order to remember who we are and why we are on this Planet...

Much Love
xxxxxxxxx

[john white]

http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/9781/watchtowermemorialsitebma2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

???[/
OI LOTSOV!

JEHOVAH's
WITNESSES

ARE FOUNDED BY

THE ILLUMINATI!!!

WHEN ARE YOU

GOING TO

STOP LIVING

IN DENIAL OF

TRUTH?

ALL YOUR

"CERTAINTIES"

ARE A CHAIN PLACED AROUND

YOUR NECK

BY THE UNSEEN

MASTERS WHO

OWN YOUR MIND

ps: THERE's NOTHING

WRONG WITH

NOT WANTING

TO DESTROY THIS

PLANET THROUGH

GREED AND STUPIDITY

EITHER!

[fccool]

There would be nothing wrong with a One World belief that we are all One and part of the same though would there?

This is what is happening already and people are waking up to their One-ness.

The whole New World Order thing is going to backfire (if that's the right word) and people will be joined in a New World of Peace and Love.

The New World Order will be the order of Love but it must be allowed to run its course without resistance and with acceptance of what is neccesary in order to remember who we are and why we are on this Planet...

Much Love
xxxxxxxxx

:). Welcome to the beginning of the end ms_moon. The dream of John Lennon and likes. I value individuality above oness. Collectivism, Democracy and the idea of "One-ness" go hand in hand. All dictate, whether explicitly or implicidly, that if you don't go with the flow... there's something wrong with you... and eventually you are to be dealt with.
You see, the police out there on the streets they think that they act out of love. The think they know what is best for you, and because they "love" you... they will restrain you. Same goes for politicians, same goes for anyone. There will be no order in this world unless you will learn to respect individuality above One-ness. Individuality lies with choice. We will never be making same choices... it's impossible. We are individuals first and foremost. The control only kicks in when you erase the individuality factor and kick in some other larger than life one. Then you can push such ideas a patriotic war, communism, socialism, democratic capitalism. Individuality is the greatest gift that you have. Don't give it up so easily just because there are John Lennons running around and saying that One-ness is a ultimate solution.
Thank of what has happened in past century. Everything is a collective mind. Everybody thinks in somebody else's thoughts. Public education, patriotic rants, religious affiliations, political parties, citizenship and fighting for freedom. You have to belong to some group to be somebody. If you don't have a birth certificate, driver's license, SS# or 1020 return... you are a nobody. You ave no rights other than what the majority gives you. That's the One-ness that is being pushed forward.
THink about it. When you are born into this world you are fingerprinted, registrated, educated, clothed and indoctrinated without questions. You are automatically labeled a citizen of a country you are to pay taxes to without your concent. You learn and intake information you can't verify and you are indoctrinated without your concent. You have no intrisic rights, as you are told. The only rights you have is that which mob gives you. Why? Because they say that individuality is a dangerous concept. You are unpredictable if you active on your own.
We get used to such concepts, and we identify ourselves as citizens of such and such country, graduates of such and such school, and workers of such and such corporation. So the countries in effect are nothing more than giant corporations. It's always us against them. We won this ballgame, we kicked the shit out of you in this war. That's why it's so easy to control the "we" mentality. All you have to do is to pander to it. Just say "we" and "us" and "them", instead of I and You.
See, true freedom means to be able to do what you want within limits of natural law. I should be able to travel from place to place uninterrupted, just as animals do. Nobody is stopping ducks and asking them for their passports or IDs when they migrate and fly. I know you think the thought of it is preposterous, but we do treat people worse than animals. Why? We are told that it's for our "safety". So the concept not new to anybody. Safety above individual freedom. The concept of freedom that we have, is a concept of collective freedom. Collectively we are free because we are told that we are. Nobody ever defines freedom. It's just an abstract concept. I grew up under communism regime, and I thought we were free. I moved to US and thought that I was free. But it's funny how Jean Jacques Rousseau could not be more true on the chain's part. It does not matter who you are. We are not free. Nowhere in this world you will be free, unless you dismantle the idea of collectivism, or so called One-ness. It's easy to control people who think they are "one". It's much harder to do with individuals. I respect Icke for making this point clear, although he does contradict himself in the end of his lectures.

[john white]

Oneness is NOT collectivism: that is a perverted understanding

What Oneness IS is basic psychological health, as enjoyed by all through the majority of human history: its only in the last 7000 years that mankind has become destructuve, and its all through the delusion of the ego, that sees itself as intrinsically seperate from everything else... and thus set above it: which is why we are destroying our own ability to survive as a species

Onenesss is recognising the innate commonality of the Soul:

And it is from the Soul that ALL rights derive: not from the law, not from the system, and not from peices of paper

[intuition]

Much of this forum is a combination of belief and people being swept along by some guru who is often no more than a professional brainwasher. Did you see the latest..., down load this or that video etc. Not much in the way of people thinking for themselves, but very quick to attack others who dare to, or to just ignore them.

Now if you wonder why the NWO runs Christian groups as well, it is for exactly the same reason as they promote their rightwing groups like the BNP. I'd say the BNP have done more to keep the Socialists in power than anything else and I think it is just the same with Christian cults.

Naturally a Christian cult is a huge oxymoron but look at it from the social engineering perspective with the desired outcome to destroy the Christian church and replace it with a one world religion. You see the NWO did not write the Bible, indeed the Bible is against any such overbearing and fascist state. The Bible would rather have people controlling themselves, but you see this is not the NWO plan and hence it is made out to be repressive. Now if they say that telling people to control their own selves is a restriction on their freedom, well consider the plan is to replace this self control for state control of people and this will be demanded by those who run to the state for their protection. It's the largest protection racket in the world. (Tsarion is in with them.)

Just want to say i agree with most of your posts , you talk alot of sense.

[john white]

I meant with this current issue we are talking about, not JWs' as a whole. Indeed here we see JWs' thinking outside of the box, as it is known as.

I personally think their so-called cult like status is overplayed somewhat considering there are far worse cults around, e.g. the Raelians. I had a couple turn up at my door the other day and they didn't exhibit the normal telltale signs of brainwashing, in fact they were very polite. I suppose it depends on the individual to some extent.

Yeah, if they smell a "mark" then they'd have to be incompentant evangelists not to pour on the charm. They've got your address written down in their little book with a "highly promising!" note next to it

"Cult" when its no use to you "source of wisdom" when it comfirms your own fear and prejudice: what a number you are Lotsov!

Just want to say i agree with most of your posts , you talk alot of sense

Its not him talking, he's just a parrot. You should think for yourself more:

Thats the ONLY thing Lotsov is right about, and he fails miserably!

[fccool]

Oneness is NOT collectivism: that is a perverted understanding

What Oneness IS is basic psychological health, as enjoyed by all through the majority of human history: its only in the last 7000 years that mankind has become destructuve, and its all through the delusion of the ego, that sees itself as intrinsically seperate from everything else... and thus set above it: which is why we are destroying our own ability to survive as a species

Onenesss is recognising the innate commonality of the Soul:

And it is from the Soul that ALL rights derive: not from the law, not from the system, and not from peices of paper

:) Once again, we back to the argument of the abstract non-definitions. Psychological health is enough definition on it's own. Psychological health is a psychological health. When you are speaking of Oneness, I can't help but think of the New Age way of thinking of One-ness. I.e. you are one with the environment, you are essentially the same thing... big broken down conciousness that we are. Our individuality is essentially a multiple personality disorder and our goal is to eventually to get back to that one brain.
Soul is very concept abstract also. What is it? What I believe the soul to be... is the whole human being when he is alive. We are a living soul. Dead body is not a living soul. Can soul die? I don't know. I have not experienced death, and I have not met anybody who did and survived, hehe. Clinical death is no death... it's just temporary state of mental absence. Hallucinations are common in such cases. I've had out of body dreams, which I don't perceive as out of body experiences. But then again, I don't know. Although I agree that there is nothing wrong with your way of viewing Oneness... the idea of Oneness is an abstract one. Anybody describe it in very abstract terms... just like freedom. We are one.... No we are not :). If you are speaking about the commonality of the Soul, then it's not one-ness... it's commonality. :D Just because we have something in common and came from the same source, does not mean we are same entity. And that's the idea which is misused today alot... no matter who you are.

Also... where do you find the idea of human goodness and lack of destructiveness 7000+ years ago? Rise and fall of civilizations is a proof of self-destructive decay IMO.

[sweet cheeks]

The same as Maxwell, to corrupt Christianity in order to destroy it. Whether you believe the religion or not does not alter the fact that the agenda is to corrupt it. Astro-theology is one plot, women priests and homosexuals and druids in the church is another and so too is Dan Brown and the Masonic belief that Jesus married and had children and that the elite are their descendents. Its weird stuff all right, you might argue with it or not understand why, but there is 100% consistency in their plan. I did a thread on the church but it got dumped in the religion section because it was causing people to mainly ignore the facts I was posting, the rest just argued and trolled it.

We sit and watch you as you are moved around on the chess board, BARON.

You are being used and are a useful idiot.

You cant see the game, because you ARE the game. :D

[john white]

Once again, we back to the argument of the abstract non-definitions

Oh sure. The mind always will. That's why its limited: its functioning cpacity is finite. Duality and Oneness are perspectives: the question is: which perspective is most in harmony with the needs of Life?

[kblood]

Oh sure. The mind always will. That's why its limited: its functioning cpacity is finite. Duality and Oneness are perspectives: the question is: which perspective is most in harmony with the needs of Life?

I agree a bit with fccool. Yes, it is of course perspective but this theory is one I had at a very young age. If 14 is considered young. That was when I was beginning ponder on the mysteries of space, beginning of time and why everything is. Especially after having had the feeling of oneness. First I was very sure that all of space was going to become one giant sun in the center of space where we would all be body less higher beings of love and joy. After researching the fact about space though, it does seem to be expanding alot alot more than it is "moving closer" to its center, on astronolical time scales of course. I believe we can learn a bit about where we might be going our selves by looking on other similar systems in life, like that of planets, insects or other living "societies" of a kind.

Well... my last theory I guess might also imply that we arent meant to ever be under one leader. I do believe in power corrupts and so on, so it would seem illogical for us to become one nation. Also I dont see how karma would let it happen. How would we ever have any karma balance as one united planet with one centralised hub of leaders? Well... just seems improbable, and also very hampering to our advancements. I like how many countries have their own persononalities, and therefore also have their own way of "advancing". This way we get many different kinds of research and so on in every nation. Every country will have its people think a bit differently and therefore be much more likely to come up with different ideas and angles to something.

Also I like our planet and everything in life most of all because things like "cloning" in any way of life seems so impossible to perfect. We will always be a bit different in a way. All life is I think, just maybe not at its core.

[kblood]

There would be nothing wrong with a One World belief that we are all One and part of the same though would there?

This is what is happening already and people are waking up to their One-ness.

The whole New World Order thing is going to backfire (if that's the right word) and people will be joined in a New World of Peace and Love.

The New World Order will be the order of Love but it must be allowed to run its course without resistance and with acceptance of what is neccesary in order to remember who we are and why we are on this Planet...

Much Love
xxxxxxxxx

I agree with you on that 100%. If ever NWO succeeds, how would it last more than a few years or decades? It couldnt. The human mind, in my oponion, cant be kept in something that is unreal for that long periods of time. This much centralised power would cause us to, maybe stop believing in centralised control and find a new way of having our social networks on a systematic level in real life. Maybe a peacefull sort of anarchy? I still dont see how that would happen. I cant image a world without any leaders. Illuminati or no ;) As I see it I really dont care if the Illuminate is to be in power, and should I care? Well, I guess that is not for this thread, but might be a bit related to this cult talk. I wont discuss rumours since I dont know Tsarion that well. He might be doing lots of good, and some bad. To let people die when we cant save them without medical care, might in fact be the more natural and un corrupted way of life :confused: I have thought alot about that one in my life time. I had to let my 10 or 12 year old son get lethal injection after I became where about him and where he was. I was 16 myself at that time. Guess that might invalidate my agreement that he should be allowed to get a lethal injection if that was what he wanted to stop feeling the pain of his terminal cancer :(
Same went for my father...

I sometimes regret very much that I only spent about 15 minutes of my life with my son. Maybe it was something my mental illness had me thing up, I guess I will never know, but I have seen his ghost sometimes, if I talk about him. I guess he might still be a very soft spot on his grandmother, who probably and hopefully still is alive. I also sometimes hate my father for taking the "easy" way out of life by choosing to die and leaving me behind, without me getting to know him better. Still I really cant blame him for doing so. I thought about it several times before, and if you get that much pain in life, then maybe it isnt just a trial you are taking, but a sign that death might be what is to be? It isnt an easy question. At least I got, sort of, a chance of saying goodbye. At the time I was just very angry at him for doing so.

A bit too much about myself I guess, but I hope it helps bring some new perspectives on this discussion.

[kblood]

:)
Also... where do you find the idea of human goodness and lack of destructiveness 7000+ years ago? Rise and fall of civilizations is a proof of self-destructive decay IMO.

Yes, this is what Im thinking Icke isnt taking into consideration. Seems he blames everything on reptiles, but knowing that he is older than me, and probably more spiritually far ahead in many ways, he might just be trying to show us that in his own way :confused: ;)

I believe we are self destructive, simply because it makes us better at evolving. Life is both pain and love or we would all go very insane I think. Also even with love being such a nice feeling, it would feel so artificial and be so boring with this as the only feeling in more than 75% of a lifetime. I guess some do have a lifetime of 90% pain though, so to keep up the balance...

[eternal_spirit]

http://www.bretlueder.com/TSARPIC.JPG
Bret and Michael Tsarion at 2002 Bay Area UFO Expo
Is "evil" an indispensable part of reality? Is it the scourge of the world? Would there be crime, racism or hate without it? What would "good" do if there wasn't evil?
In Biblical terms, evil was created when Satan, one of God's leading angels, rebelled against His word. This implies that there was a time when there was no evil (before Satan went against God's word). But when was this time? Does the Bible say? Do any other ancient texts give any clues? And just what is evil?
Enter divination scholar and sidereal mythologist Michael Tsarion. He has been wrestling with these very questions since he was a 13-year-old boy growing in up in Belfast, Ireland. Born into a lineage of "spiritual adepts," he says, and inspired by writers like J.R.R. Tolkien and C.S. Lewis, Tsarion began to think that stories like Lord of the Rings and The Chronicles of Narnia weren't the fiction they were supposed to be.

read more here http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.bretlueder.com/TSARPIC.JPG&imgrefurl=http://www.bretlueder.com/tsarion.htm&h=332&w=354&sz=22&hl=en&start=1&tbnid=XbW3HGq-d9T0wM:&tbnh=113&tbnw=121&prev=/images%3Fq%3DMichael%2BTsarion%26gbv%3D2%26svnum%3 D10%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG

He was born into a lineage of spiritual adepts lol so he was born into an occult family of witches would be another way of putting it. Which order of what exactley? Tolkien and Lewis both these authors were belived to have been fairly high up in Freemasonry.
Their books have been pushed and premoted from one generation to the next, this should tell you that the Elite (PTB) wan't you to read this stuff. It's to prepare you for when you're older so you'll read authors like Tsarion.

A picture speaks a thousand words so they say, I have a way of reading pics and my intuition tells me this man's not to be trusted.

BTW, i'm not using big text on purpose just goes like that sometimes when I copy and paste, and then when I type my own bit it's still massive llol.

[eternal_spirit]

Just my gut feeling. maybe he's part truth part disinfo. If he knows this is another story, we'll never know, same goes for all researchers, unfortunatley that's the nature of this game.

http://images.google.com/url?q=http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/0/04/180px-MichaelTsarion.gif&usg=AFQjCNE9d7T_vTj91owRyb1diT_6ipDJfQ

[thirdwave]

Much of this forum is a combination of belief and people being swept along by some guru who is often no more than a professional brainwasher.

Yes but the difference being is none of these books inform you of the way you should think or act..... its simply explaining experiences & research.... then encouraging one to make of it what one wants too, it does not explain the consequences of not following the book......... it just so happens that many many people ..*more and more* relate to it.

what technique do you think they are useing to destroy Christianity?... from what I have seen they have not really had to try very hard, name the lies you have heard..... do you not think that originally "Christianity" came from an altered state of continuousness?

[bicycle]

I have heard it said many times that Tsarion is a Rosicrucian, is this true:confused:

[eternal_spirit]

I have heard it said many times that Tsarion is a Rosicrucian, is this true:confused:
..............

I don't know,
some say it's more likely than Icke being a mason.

[eternal_spirit]

I did get some pleasure out of reading some of Tolkiens and Lewis's Books when I was younger, but on the whole they are too long and contain to many words, sending the mind into overload in some of the storys. But good for the imagination, the mental pictures the storys created. I've heard that some of the characters are based on masons, witches, mystery school characters etc.

[bicycle]

I did get some pleasure out of reading some of Tolkiens and Lewis's Books when I was younger, but on the whole they are too long and contain to many words, sending the mind into overload in some of the storys. But good for the imagination, the mental pictures the storys created. I've heard that some of the characters are based on masons, witches, mystery school characters etc.


Sounds like a harry potter book:(

[eternal_spirit]

I'm stating the obvious here..Jehovas witness is not a good source to discredit anyone.:eek:

The only thing that worrys me is that theres loads of negative writings about our man Icke on the Internet if you do a search.
According to baron he had to trawl through lot's of text to find anything negative about Tsarion. You get the drift?

[eternal_spirit]

Sounds like a harry potter book:(

............

Yes exactly, but they needed new storys for this generation, based on similar subject matter..Rumours about how these kind of books are written by a team of authours. Rowling is said to just have been the public front and editor not the story writer.

[eternal_spirit]

http://www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com/images/tempBooks.jpg (http://www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com/books.html)

Would you trust this man by looking at his pic lol. We don't all read the same from the same pic. Someoen said he looks like Obe One Konobi off Star wars. :D

[bicycle]

I like Alan Watt, although he did have a go at Icke recently.

[eternal_spirit]

I like Alan Watt, although he did have a go at Icke recently.
...........

Same here, I've listened to most of his free stuff, but would like to know what's in his books, but can't afford them at the moment. Did piss me off what he said about Icke though, :confused:

[eternal_spirit]

...........

Same here, I've listened to most of his free stuff, but would like to know what's in his books, but can't afford them at the moment. Did piss me off what he said about Icke though, :confused:

I don't think it was a personal attack on Icke, but about the reptile agenda theory. Watt sees this as a waste of time.

[baron von lotsov]

Yes but the difference being is none of these books inform you of the way you should think or act..... its simply explaining experiences & research.... then encouraging one to make of it what one wants too, it does not explain the consequences of not following the book......... it just so happens that many many people ..*more and more* relate to it.

what technique do you think they are useing to destroy Christianity?... from what I have seen they have not really had to try very hard, name the lies you have heard..... do you not think that originally "Christianity" came from an altered state of continuousness?


I did a thread on it but it got trolled into oblivion. Just open your eyes and you will see it go on all around you. Maxwell and Tsarion are two on one tack, Dan Brown is another and also of course the Harry Potter business. Then we have homosexual bishops, women priests, Celtic 'Christianity' and so on. How about a Sony video game of a gun fight in Manchester Cathedral? Open you eyes, look at as many diverse sources as possible, speak to people, read the BBC website, look at council PC policies regarding Christmas. Each time you get a card with seasonal greetings you know something is amiss.

Winterval… (lol)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/210672.stm

[thirdwave]

I did a thread on it but it got trolled into oblivion. Just open your eyes and you will see it go on all around you. Maxwell and Tsarion are two on one tack, Dan Brown is another and also of course the Harry Potter business. Then we have homosexual bishops, women priests, Celtic 'Christianity' and so on. How about a Sony video game of a gun fight in Manchester Cathedral? Open you eyes, look at as many diverse sources as possible, speak to people, read the BBC website, look at council PC policies regarding Christmas. Each time you get a card with seasonal greetings you know something is amiss.

Winterval… (lol)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/210672.stm

My eyes are open...

you have not answered my question.... ok, maxwell....tsarion.... dan brown.... harry potter gay bishops..women priests...so on

what is it all about that that is trying to harm Christianity?

what is being put out to ruin it? .... why will women priests ruin it? ..is that not sexist? why are males ok to be priests but women should not qualify? ...likewise why should someones religious duties be judged on their sexuality?

its clear all these things are not exceptable to you, but i am asking you to explain why.... what are they doing to your religion ...how are they damaging it?

[baron von lotsov]

...........

Same here, I've listened to most of his free stuff, but would like to know what's in his books, but can't afford them at the moment. Did piss me off what he said about Icke though, :confused:



They don't help much. I'm having second doubts about him. I started reading a book that someone insisted they wanted to download to me but gave up after about 20 pages or so. It could be another disinfo agent for all we know; there was nothing useful but a load of stuff on the meaning of words. An example is the word behave as he sees it as 'bee'have as in a busy bee and he has millions of other examples like this. Other so-called factual stuff has nothing backing it up that I have seen and does not fit into the system's known agendas. All the signs are bad but I have no proof, I don't know who he is but he is more on communication than fact. A bad sign.

[john white]

They don't help much. I'm having second doubts about him. I started reading a book that someone insisted they wanted to download to me but gave up after about 20 pages or so. It could be another disinfo agent for all we know; there was nothing useful but a load of stuff on the meaning of words. An example is the word behave as he sees it as 'bee'have as in a busy bee and he has millions of other examples like this. Other so-called factual stuff has nothing backing it up that I have seen and does not fit into the system's known agendas. All the signs are bad but I have no proof, I don't know who he is but he is more on communication than fact. A bad sign.

How can you know...

he is more on communication than fact

When all you have read is...

20 pages or so

But you do tell us that:

All the signs are bad

Whilst also revealing that....

but I have no proof

and that, with regards to Michael Tsarion, that:

I don't know who he is

Whilst also assuring us that this:

http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/9781/watchtowermemorialsitebma2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Is no reason for concern with regards to those lovely astute people:

The Jehovah's Witnesses

Congratulations Lotsov! You've made comedy Gold!

:) :) :)
:) :) :)
:) :) :)

[baron von lotsov]

My eyes are open...

you have not answered my question.... ok, maxwell....tsarion.... dan brown.... harry potter gay bishops..women priests...so on

what is it all about that that is trying to harm Christianity?

what is being put out to ruin it? .... why will women priests ruin it? ..is that not sexist? why are males ok to be priests but women should not qualify? ...likewise why should someones religious duties be judged on their sexuality?

its clear all these things are not exceptable to you, but i am asking you to explain why.... what are they doing to your religion ...how are they damaging it?

As with anything on such a grand scale they are very clever about it and establish long running programmes. First they set up pilot groups, which are seen as a bunch of insignificant people with a weird belief, then they study them as social scientists do until they have the right formula and then they scale it up.

Just like the green movement, you should try studying it some day because you might find out some surprising things about it. I met some of the people who were involved with that and other groups back in the early days, and not one person ever suspected that they were establishment. Not one single person.

These elite are much brighter than you think and a lot of the above views have been purposefully been programmed into you. I was sort of half conned and half suspicious at the time the brainwashers were working on me, some things fooled me and I have been kicking myself ever since about them and other things I got wise to at the time as one person speaking the opposite to everyone else in the group. So these times console me somewhat to some of the mistakes I made personally.

Anyway it was not in any light-minded way that I changed my opinion because certain facts and bits of evidence just would not go away. Eventually I came to terms with the fact that most of my youth had been affected by some sort of system brainwashing or other. I'll give you a blinding example. Did you ever wonder why Glastonbury main stage is in the shape of a pyramid????

[john white]

P.S

I know that Baron was actually talking about Watt in this post, but I dare him to show me any objective difference: other than he hasn't even read 20 pages from Tsarion

They don't help much. I'm having second doubts about him. I started reading a book that someone insisted they wanted to download to me but gave up after about 20 pages or so. It could be another disinfo agent for all we know; there was nothing useful but a load of stuff on the meaning of words. An example is the word behave as he sees it as 'bee'have as in a busy bee and he has millions of other examples like this. Other so-called factual stuff has nothing backing it up that I have seen and does not fit into the system's known agendas. All the signs are bad but I have no proof, I don't know who he is but he is more on communication than fact. A bad sign.

How can you know...

he is more on communication than fact

When all you have read is...

20 pages or so

But you do tell us that:

All the signs are bad

Whilst also revealing that....

but I have no proof

and that, with regards to Michael Tsarion, that:

I don't know who he is

Whilst also assuring us that this:

http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/9781/watchtowermemorialsitebma2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Is no reason for concern with regards to those lovely astute people:

The Jehovah's Witnesses

Congratulations Lotsov! You've made comedy Gold!

:) :) :)
:) :) :)
:) :) :)

[sweet cheeks]

**Originally Posted by baron von lotsov** Much of this forum is a combination of belief and people being swept along by some guru who is often no more than a professional brainwasher.

:p:p;)

Uhm, Baron, what's the difference between YOUR "**BELIEFS**" and their beliefs??

There all just beliefs at the end of the day...

But when you have some tangible PROOF of the shit you speak, then we be gettin' somewhere! :cool:

Puff a spliff up on that for while, why don't 'cha!?

[baron von lotsov]

:p:p;)

Uhm, Baron, what's the difference between YOUR "**BELIEFS**" and their beliefs??

There all just beliefs at the end of the day...

But when you have some tangible PROOF of the shit you speak, then we be gettin' somewhere! :cool:

Puff a spliff up on that for while, why don't 'cha!?

You mean like I posted a moment ago. I'm quite happy to post more proof if you want to have a mature discussion on the subject. What I won't do though is reply to John White's trolling.

[lydia78]

The Troll is a reflection of your own mind!!:D

[sweet cheeks]

You mean like I posted a moment ago. I'm quite happy to post more proof if you want to have a mature discussion on the subject. What I won't do though is reply to John White's trolling.

I'm speaking of your belief in the bible and "God", there's no actual PROOF of all that now is there??

Baron, people can BELIEVE anything they want, it doesn't nessesarily make it TRUE.

Now if you can prove to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is a "bible god", I'll bend over and kiss your ass. :cool:

[eternal_spirit]

The Troll is a reflection of your own mind!!:D
.....
..............

Now now, keep it real. :D maybe you were around on the other Forum, but this seems to go on every day on here. baron and John. not much these two agree on. |damn now I'm spamming , regress from spam please all, let's debate. :)

[eternal_spirit]

They don't help much. I'm having second doubts about him. I started reading a book that someone insisted they wanted to download to me but gave up after about 20 pages or so. It could be another disinfo agent for all we know; there was nothing useful but a load of stuff on the meaning of words. An example is the word behave as he sees it as 'bee'have as in a busy bee and he has millions of other examples like this. Other so-called factual stuff has nothing backing it up that I have seen and does not fit into the system's known agendas. All the signs are bad but I have no proof, I don't know who he is but he is more on communication than fact. A bad sign.

.....................

Well if they insisted you read it they must have had a high opinion of the information contained in the book. Anyone else read any of Watt's books, I'd like to hear what's in them???

He has to earn money some how so I imagine some of the deeper stuff must be in his books, or CD's for sale. But it does make me wonder where he get's alot of his info from. He put's it down to the fact he's read so many books that where written by the Elite masons etc. That would be one way by checking some books he quotes from.

But alot of the stuff it seems you have to take his word for, which is the same for all researchers, more or less.
Behave beehive, meaning we are the worker bees serving the Queen bee at the top possibly and a hive like mind we are almost like clones or that's what the Elite wan't us to be soon. There seems to be much stuff about the Elite's agenda, concerning culture creation, eugenics, Harrp and the micro chip agenda. Exposing the New Age which was created by the Elite culture creation mob. Not many are willing to do that.

[thirdwave]

As with anything on such a grand scale they are very clever about it and establish long running programmes. First they set up pilot groups, which are seen as a bunch of insignificant people with a weird belief, then they study them as social scientists do until they have the right formula and then they scale it up.

Just like the green movement, you should try studying it some day because you might find out some surprising things about it. I met some of the people who were involved with that and other groups back in the early days, and not one person ever suspected that they were establishment. Not one single person.

These elite are much brighter than you think and a lot of the above views have been purposefully been programmed into you. I was sort of half conned and half suspicious at the time the brainwashers were working on me, some things fooled me and I have been kicking myself ever since about them and other things I got wise to at the time as one person speaking the opposite to everyone else in the group. So these times console me somewhat to some of the mistakes I made personally.

Anyway it was not in any light-minded way that I changed my opinion because certain facts and bits of evidence just would not go away. Eventually I came to terms with the fact that most of my youth had been affected by some sort of system brainwashing or other. I'll give you a blinding example. Did you ever wonder why Glastonbury main stage is in the shape of a pyramid????

I am in %100 agreement with you that the elite have been brainwashing and manipulating us since we were children.... so on...

but i not sure as to why you don't feel they are using Christianity for just that....

i think the fact that there are women priests and gay priests...if anything is moving towards preserving the religion and making it more credible... i think the reason being is that they know the people are getting smarter and all religions (just so happens for us lot Christianity is more dominant) are being questioned and is not as convincing....

[eternal_spirit]

You know watt is right about the New Age, saying it's ancient Hinduism, with it's meditation and Blavatsky ascended masters discarnate entities Elite sumpreme beings, etc etc. the masonic grand Architect of the Univers Scenario.

Anway back to Tsarion lol.

[john white]

You mean like I posted a moment ago. I'm quite happy to post more proof if you want to have a mature discussion on the subject. What I won't do though is reply to John White's trolling.

Yes becuase you can't debate. You just look for straw men to enable you to SPAM whatever ignorant opinion it was that you thought of the excuse of the thread subject in order to spew out! You can't handle REAL opinion and REAL research and REAL debate, so you ignore, and when that doesnt work, you vilify

Well look what comes back at you Lotsov!
Its not good enough Lotsov, frauds get exposed, your no different, get real

Thread after thread of paranoid spew, flimsily window dressed with material from conspiracy peddlers with minds just as vile as yours, to spin that you put a lot of work in and are all wise, when really you dont do bugger all but copy paste their material

And look at how you whinge about other people "copy pasting!"

Thats an excellent example of what you really are Lotsov: a hypocrite! condeming others for your own behaviours to try to make yourself look good

[baron von lotsov]

You know watt is right about the New Age, saying it's ancient Hinduism, with it's meditation and Blavatsky ascended masters discarnate entities Elite sumpreme beings, etc etc. the masonic grand Architect of the Univers Scenario.

Anway back to Tsarion lol.



Fair play. As I said, I only read 20 pages of one book but I was not getting much out of it. He also says there are many more degrees to the masons than the standard 33, this is something I have only ever heard from him plus he says Icke is a freemason, I do believe. I think he is wrong there, I think Icke just fell into the hands of swindlers and is now taking corrective action. If he were a freemason then he would get looked after better on shows like Terry Wogan. Maybe this is what all this court shit he has had is all about. The elite love to burn people out financially with loads of litigation, again a freemason would not get that kind of crap. Nor does he give away everything for free and have expenses greater than his income apart from I guess when he made some deal with Maxwell, which I suspect he regrets doing.

[eternal_spirit]

Fair play. As I said, I only read 20 pages of one book but I was not getting much out of it. He also says there are many more degrees to the masons than the standard 33, this is something I have only ever heard from him plus he says Icke is a freemason, I do believe. I think he is wrong there, I think Icke just fell into the hands of swindlers and is now taking corrective action. If he were a freemason then he would get looked after better on shows like Terry Wogan. Maybe this is what all this court shit he has had is all about. The elite love to burn people out financially with loads of litigation, again a freemason would not get that kind of crap. Nor does he give away everything for free and have expenses greater than his income apart from I guess when he made some deal with Maxwell, which I suspect he regrets doing.

...........

Yes first I heard, Watt is saying there are 360 degrees? Icke trusted the wrong people and was ( is ) in danger of loosing
his own copyrights to his works :mad: some American con merchant, but if all comes right he'll have spread his work across the USA. :D

It's also the ADL Zionists masons tried to libel Icke, because he came out with much truth about how corrupt they are, you know he did spill a fair bit about the Elite rituals and their agenda.

The ADL agents paid students money to protest at one of Icke's speeches in Canada, the students most hadn't even heard of Icke and didn't know what his books were about, were short of money and didn't realise they were playing the Jewish Anti deformation Leagues(ADL) game for them.

Respect to Icke for taking so much different info and writing it in his books, the more info the more truth I'd say. Even though he and others now realise some of it came from dodgy sources.

[eternal_spirit]

Cutting Through Book 1 by Alan Watt
The Androgynous (Hermaphroditic) Agenda



Sample Page From Book 1



5To form is to Shape. People are shaped by IN-Forming. Information is
neutral, like law, neither true nor false. Masters of Gnosis dispence the
sequences of directives which, in scientifically designed order, form the
ideas, opinions and life, the beliefs, reality AND DESTINY of the receiver
YOU. When IN-DOCTRINATION is complete you have been MASTERED. To
"doctor" means "to fix" by a science or Discipline. YOU ARE NOW A
MASTER-COPY, not original but ABORIGINAL. Original people saw things in
entirety. Pythagorus taught a science of controlling the mind, by reducing all
thought down to mathematical formulae. The REAL priesthood call this THE
TRINITY. It s as easy as A1B2C3The Greek philosophers taught the method in story form. An imaginary
Dialogue would occur between two or more people. By "logic" every societal
problem was reduced to the BINARY CODE. EITHER-OR. We know it better
as the Dialectic Process. By how LOGOS(the WORD) is used, those
following the conversation are brought to a conclusion . The conclusion BEE-
comes their own. They are now INFORMED. The purpose is to usurp power
from the individual and have him slave willingly towards "the betterment of
humanity." The beehive has always been the symbol of the perfect society in
ancient Egypt, the Minoan culture and Freemasonry. Behave is from
Beehive. Plato discussed the types of bees in relation to classes of people.
The majority were workers who brought home the nectar. The drone priests
sorted it into grades of honey. The best is Royal Jelly for themselves and
the "Queen" while the workers are given denaturalised refuse.Unlike modern freemasonry where the initiate must say "I AM" pre-Jaques-
Pierrian English had no Am. The candidate said "I BEE". The number of
masonry is Four. "To bee or not to bee=2xb(2)=4. Jaques is French for
Jacob, Pierre is Peter, Rock etc.. This is typical masonic "allegory" for
Jacob's Pillow (foundation) on which he had his "dream". This is a re-hash
from the Egyptian Book of the Dead story of Ascended Masters to-day
known as M ITREAS. The nobility ruling Egypt and their empire were called
Hamites. The priesthoods taught their own race the doctrine of
REINCARNATION. Those who ruled were "spirits" which had completed
many cycles with such perfection, they only returned to "help rule" the "poor
masses" which "could not rule themselves". Elitists Murderers, Thieves and
liars, a Brotherhood which hi-jacked reality and gave illu(light)si(spirit of)on.
Every Lodge has its picture of Jacob's ladder(rungs are degrees)
symbolizing the ascention of the novice, returning as angels(angles) to
earth, perfected.

[baron von lotsov]

Yeh, he is no puppet. People like Galloway and Michael Moore are puppets in my mind; they play the fool or otherwise bend the truth to make it consumerable. They are too obvious but they have to be fairly obvious because they aim at the mainstream.

Icke was fighting them back in those days, you could tell just by things like DOS attacks on his website. When he started to veer off into wonderland the attacks cooled off, but I think his heart is in it and masons don't have hearts. You can just sense that cold calculating vibe about them. Maybe this court case is a good thing in a way for Icke as it is the kind of thing that keeps you sharp and understanding that you are actually fighting them.

[michak]

http://video.google.nl/videoplay?docid=-3800467000933683345

Is there a topic discussing this presentation by Michael Tsarion? I am interested in learning about Icke's views on the claims made by Tsarion in the above video.

--Micha,
netherlands

[kblood]

http://video.google.nl/videoplay?docid=-3800467000933683345

Is there a topic discussing this presentation by Michael Tsarion? I am interested in learning about Icke's views on the claims made by Tsarion in the above video.

--Micha,
netherlands

Sounds very much like Ickes views as well in many ways. I only watched the first 5-10 min, but Icke also writes about the Nephilim. I even watched a really crappy movie mentioning these Nephilim. Try watching "The Fallen Ones". That movie does seem largely made up. Icke, like Tsarion, believes that we were visited by highly developed alien beings in ancient times. What Icke said is that they became the Illuminati, some of them anyway. Some of them were "good guys". I havent read enough about either Tsarion or Icke to comment anymore than this on it though. I dont remember Icke mentioning Atlantis. My guess is that the Atlantic ocean might not just have rocks down on the ocean floor. Seems like Atlantis has been a name that has resurfaged too many times, to be something that was just a made up story, or a myth.

I will try looking more into this Tsarion guys views I guess. Always good to have several angles at the same subjects :)

[kblood]

Cutting Through Book 1 by Alan Watt
The Androgynous (Hermaphroditic) Agenda



Sample Page From Book 1



Dialectic Process. By how LOGOS(the WORD) is used, those
following the conversation are brought to a conclusion . The conclusion BEE-
comes their own. They are now INFORMED. The purpose is to usurp power
from the individual and have him slave willingly towards "the betterment of
humanity." The beehive has always been the symbol of the perfect society in
ancient Egypt, the Minoan culture and Freemasonry. Behave is from


Nice post :) I recently bought this magazine called "LOGOS", which claims to be an awareness magazine. It seems very sincere from what I have read, although its alot of "blah blah blah", to me. Alot of stories about people seeking and also finding enlightenment. Dunno if there are lies hidden in the truths of this magazine, I havent find any yet at least.

I found it buying a gift for a friend that is very interested in alternative ways. Healing, energies of the body and so on. She got her own place for helping young people like me getting on with their life. While buying her a gift, I found this magazine. It even has a homepage:
www.logosmagasin.dk

If youd like to check it out. It is all in Danish though, and to many of the users on this forum, alot in that magazine is like old news by now :) Does have some very interresting stories and articles though, about enlightenment and following your heart. To not follow your ego too much and all that. Oh, it might all be in danish btw...

[ms_moon]

As Human Beings we have designed ourselves to face challenges, we are creating our own reality moment by moment. If this doesn't resonate with you deep down then that is ok- leave it. But we are the Total Creators of our ENTIRE Universe.

We are sub-consciously (some consciously) creating our Reality, together and individually in order to Evolve and experience new levels of Consciousness. We have been doing it since birth.

There are people out there, particularly Ancient blood-lines and Civilisations, who are aware of Conscious Creation. This is the big Illuminati Secret as i'm sure most of you are aware.

However this is also part of who we are- we have created and are creating these scenarios in order to Evolve into what we have been heading towards since the Dawn of Time.

We are all the same, we are all Pure Love Energy in various different forms of experience.

Even this which I am writing is a creation of us all in order to learn once again who we are and why we are here.

Here's a scenario to chew on:

We begin as a Light Being, completely and totally aware of ourselves and our place in the Universe. We can create ANYTHING at will, manifest ANYTHING we desire to any extent. Perform miracles, experience total bliss all the time and feel constant Love for everything. We've existed for AGES since Infinity... this is a long time to exist! Through this existence we decided that we would like to experience being a Human Being (or a Plant or a Fish or whatever...) and so we began our journey on Earth. But the 'Game' so to speak was that on your first birth as a Human, your knowledge of being Pure Consciousness and connected to the source must be dissolved- a 'condition'. Developing throughout the ages, passing from Human to Human with every birth, your knowledge and experience of Pure Consciousness is gradually returned in order to experience different feelings, emotions, events etc... throughout time. The Mind is developed in order to be 'undeveloped' as a result of the return of your Consciousness- this is the only way to learn about how the Mind works and what it does.

It's a Reality completely created by Us, for Us, to understand how the Mind works and why it does the things that it does. It's also a simultaneous journey of remembering who we are and what we are doing here.

It's one hell of an Adventure and we're all travelling in exactly the right way we are intending to travel, consciously or not, without any imperfections.

Love to you ALL!!
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Jay
xxx

[kooo]

Ms Moon

You sound like you have great expertise at creating your own reality, I'm not very good at these things so wonder if you could do it for me, I would like £50,000 in my bank account by tomorrow morning, can you do this for me, can you change my reality? Or if you can't change mine have the money put in your account and transfer it to my account afterwards. I'll pm you with my bank details. Look forward to hearing from you. Much love :)

[thirdwave]

Ms Moon

You sound like you have great expertise at creating your own reality, I'm not very good at these things so wonder if you could do it for me, I would like £50,000 in my bank account by tomorrow morning, can you do this for me, can you change my reality? Or if you can't change mine have the money put in your account and transfer it to my account afterwards. I'll pm you with my bank details. Look forward to hearing from you. Much love :)

The thing is, he could do this for you!!... but then you would un manifest it by not believing him ;)

[kooo]

The thing is, he could do this for you!!... but then you would un manifest it by not believing him ;)

Hey for 50k I'll believe anything!

He? I assumed Ms Moon was a woman, how deceitful.

[thirdwave]

Hey for 50k I'll believe anything!

He? I assumed Ms Moon was a woman, how deceitful.

Hey for 50k I'll believe anything!

all about being brave i guess....

[ms_moon]

This is actually Mr Moon (we use the same login) but thankyou for your comments xxx

It's funny you should mention money actually. Currency (or Current- Energy if you break it down) is one of the ways that we as Humans are being controlled. The banks are running this planet currently and if an attraction to money is what floats your boat then great! But just remember that as long as you think that £50,000 in your bank account is a good thing, then you also believe that being in the hands of the Banks is a good thing...

In our modern Age- money is the way that most people are controlled. Waft loads of cash in someone's face and they'll do anything, believe anything- you've hghlighted that point for us.

But people lose their 'Integrity' in these situations and become slaves to themselves.

If money talks in your world, then the world you are living in is exactly the right place to be.

Much Love
xxxxxxxxxx

[kooo]

So you can't do it then, I had a funny feeling you couldn't.

Happy brainwashing :)

[ms_moon]

I never said i couldn't do it...

[kooo]

I never said i couldn't do it...

No you just went down the ad hominem route and attacked my integrity. But it's OK, I'm familiar with those underhand tactics. You also pose as a woman when clearly you are a man, I don't buy this crap about Mr & Mrs sharing the same username either, you are a deceitful person. Anyway must dash, I'm due for my power nap :)

[december]

Sorry, I can't help your desire to respond by the usual childhood regression routine.

I'm just making you aware of the facts and on this occasion the JWs' have scored a point against the Icke team. What are you going to do about that, argue with the referee or figure out how to improve your performance?

Baron von Lotsov, i don't think you even have to answer to these people...

You know, I thought that THIS OFFICIAL forum would be a good place to exchange information, but it seems to me that there are lots of comedians in UK who just make stupid jokes and post silly pictures such as this one -


.....

http://www.rationalatheist.com/assets/fun4.png

:D

[ms_moon]

I never questioned your integrity for a moment- i was merely stating a point about money. Also, i find it interesting that you should feel the need to attack me. Once again the reflection of perception comes into play...

It's a beautiful thing to experience these things and i thank you for participating.

Two people sharing the same username IS possible you know... and i never sign off with my wife's name... but this is irrelevant. It does, however, highlight yet again the Dualistic Conditioning that is brought upon us as a society, to think in this way and believeone thing is good and the other is bad.

What is deceit? Is it a real thing? Or something created by the Mind to reassure the bearer of their beliefs?

Life is so full of Questions!

Lots of Love,

Jay
xxx

[thirdwave]

no one is putting him down... just not agreeing.... this is an icke forum and very few people will have a religious outlook here, so not the best place to come and discuss religion...

however i dont think anyone is putting him down, just exercising their views.... as is Baron.

[december]

no one is putting him down... just not agreeing.... .

To bring people down and insult them is a specialty of OFFICIAL Icke forum.

You can actually find a thread here which is titled something like - "Please, Stop Personal Attacks..."

[kblood]

To bring people down and insult them is a specialty of OFFICIAL Icke forum.

You can actually find a thread here which is titled something like - "Please, Stop Personal Attacks..."

That is because personal attacks are so STUPID. What do you get out of it? Nothing but anger. Well.. sometimes it does inspire others to change. I dont mind provoking at all, just senseless arguing is such a waste of forum space.

[december]

That is because personal attacks are so STUPID. What do you get out of it? Nothing but anger. Well.. sometimes it does inspire others to change. I dont mind provoking at all, just senseless arguing is such a waste of forum space.

We need to ask the moderators why do they allow people to attack people personally and post spam?...

I did report these people, but NOTHING has changed. Is it a policies of David Icke?

[eternal_spirit]

I never questioned your integrity for a moment- i was merely stating a point about money. Also, i find it interesting that you should feel the need to attack me. Once again the reflection of perception comes into play...

It's a beautiful thing to experience these things and i thank you for participating.

Two people sharing the same username IS possible you know... and i never sign off with my wife's name... but this is irrelevant. It does, however, highlight yet again the Dualistic Conditioning that is brought upon us as a society, to think in this way and believeone thing is good and the other is bad.

What is deceit? Is it a real thing? Or something created by the Mind to reassure the bearer of their beliefs?

Life is so full of Questions!

Lots of Love,

Jay
xxx
.........

A short reply is this.....It's more a case of being in poverty and it's annoying when someone says they can manifest money into reality. So I think that's were Koo is coming from. If there was an easy technique to manifest fast money and could be taught to those without any, then we wouldn't be poor.

I'm sure you mean well.

[baron von lotsov]

Baron von Lotsov, i don't think you even have to answer to these people...

You know, I thought that THIS OFFICIAL forum would be a good place to exchange information, but it seems to me that there are lots of comedians in UK who just make stupid jokes and post silly pictures such as this one -



Ah but not all is lost. This thread has 1894 views. That's a lot of people and if you look at some of my previous threads they regularly hit four figures. You see if someone googles greenpeice + ... ; often now you see that Google is returning forum threads high up its lists, so there are a lot of casual readers.

When you mention a fact that is not often known, people remember it above all the rubbish you mention. The human mind, when functioning correctly, tends to put important facts above the noise and remembers them better and passes them on to others. Whether this just be for the sake of that person being able to win an argument due to their political alignment or whatever, it does not matter. The information gets passed on like a virus.

If the information is bullshit them it will be found out and the replication process stops and realigns the heuristics of the system to make it more resilient to other similar lies. So ultimately it will be the ones who know what is going on and putting the correct information out there who can sit back and observe the catastrophes it causes. Think exponential progressions 2^n, n does not have to be very large. Already most of these system scams are known about, the green scam is rapidly cracking at the seams. It won't be long now before some people's careers end up resembling that of a comedian. Al Gore will have to retire for one.

[them]

Cutting Through Book 1 by Alan Watt
The Androgynous (Hermaphroditic) Agenda



Sample Page From Book 1



Pythagorus taught a science of controlling the mind, by reducing all
thought down to mathematical formulae. The REAL priesthood call this THE
TRINITY. It s as easy as A1B2C3The Greek philosophers taught the method in story form. An imaginary
Dialogue would occur between two or more people. By "logic" every societal
problem was reduced to the BINARY CODE. EITHER-OR. We know it better
as the Dialectic Process.

The ancient Greeks believed that all numbers could be divided into integers by simple division. According to legend, in around 500BC when Hippasus of Metapontum proved that some numbers, such as http://faculty.ed.umuc.edu/~swalsh/Math%20Articles/root2.gif, couldn't be written as a fraction of integers, his fellow Pythagoreans were so outraged that they had him drownded for heresy..

http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/biography/pics/Pythagoras.jpg

But even numbers like http://faculty.ed.umuc.edu/~swalsh/Math%20Articles/root2.gif are tame compared with transcendentals. By definition http://faculty.ed.umuc.edu/~swalsh/Math%20Articles/root2.gif X http://faculty.ed.umuc.edu/~swalsh/Math%20Articles/root2.gif = 2, so you can get back to an integer after just one step.

[peter19]

i havent read the full thread but about tsarion i like listening to him and view what he says as possible. what i just want to say is if we go down the lines of "hes disinfo"" the NWO would of thought about that and put out there own agents" what we do or can do is bring in a mentality of dont trust anyone, they might be cia agents. yeah its good to question them but dont get caught up in the paranoia that the illuminati control everything and we have no chance.

anyone could become a researcher is the way i see it. start putting some videos of you on the internet and things like that and if what you say is true and people like it, people will listen. or they wont. "trust no-body, live in fear because cia agents are all over the shop". - and do you know that people like that are the ones who noones listens too anyway. so it makes sense that really if you want to spread abit of disinfo/paranoia the best way to do it is just to scare people and make them paranoid, "satanists hideing behind every wall" lol.

[ms_moon]

.........

A short reply is this.....It's more a case of being in poverty and it's annoying when someone says they can manifest money into reality. So I think that's were Koo is coming from. If there was an easy technique to manifest fast money and could be taught to those without any, then we wouldn't be poor.

I'm sure you mean well.

Hello Eternal Spirit xxx

I think the words 'Poor' and 'Poverty' have been used (mis-used) so often, that people have attached a certain belief system to them. Now i'm not for a moment saying that those who have no money are ok, far from it, what i am saying however, is that having no money doesn't mean you are 'poor'. It means you have no money. I have spoken to homeless people countless times who are extremely happy in their situation and don't care about money. They are happy having no money. They don't see themselves as poor- society 'labels' them as poor. Ghandi never had money and he got by pretty well!

We are fed this BS story that money is important and that if don't have it we will lead miserable lives and die in 'Poverty'.

The media is riddled with the word 'Poverty'. It is reinforced and reinforced over and over again, images of starving children, countless stories about debt... Adverts offering us more and more money, loans, credit cards, mortgages- it is ENDLESS!!

What do the banks want? They want to control us with money. What do the Governments want? They want to control us with money. Money, money, money!!!

How amazing it is to see people so conditioned (myself included!) to believe that you can't survive without Money or that money is important to LIVE. We are AMAZING SPIRITUAL BEINGS!! We just need to be brave and remember this. I am experiencing this- learning at the same time as everyone else- remembering!

I'm in 'debt' because i'm ridiculously overdrawn with my bank and various credit cards. People who have MILLIONS are also in debt. It's all borrowed money from the Gatekeeping BANKERS!

So instead of blindly arguing and attacking, which is a natural 'survival' instinct (remember how i said we've been conditioned to believe we can't 'survive' without money?) why not take a step back, do some research on what i have been saying and find out for yourself?

I don't expect anyone to believe or agree with what i am saying but what would be nice was if people began to explore WHY they have particular thoughts and what it may be that put them there in the first place...

If a reaction is caused through an emotion then it is a direct result of conditioning. Remember this...

[baron von lotsov]

peter19


Look, lets be quite clear about this. There are no shortcuts; no rules to tell if someone is honest and this has been so right back to the beginning of the human race. It is one man against another and the one who is the smarter will be able to figure it out using their mental resources.

What I think you desire is a shortcut to aid your ailing mind because it is easier not to think. The system trains you to take the easy option, but it is false. There are no easy options; it's a trick to increase someone's control over you. Above all else you need to be able to figure it out and check it yourself.

I can give you help by pointing out how I think the man operates but then you have to decide whether I'm being honest or anyone else for that matter. As I said, there are no shortcuts to thinking it out for yourself. Now I can say to you that if you read lots of his material or worse than that if you watch his videos then it is likely to brainwash you, so you will be incapable of making a reasonable decision But then someone else will say how can you know he is false without listening to every video he has made and bought all his books and the tee-shirt. Again the only person who can help you is yourself, think which is the more likely, ask other people, process the information but don't allow yourself to circum to brainwashing.

[kblood]

peter19


Look, lets be quite clear about this. There are no shortcuts; no rules to tell if someone is honest and this has been so right back to the beginning of the human race. It is one man against another and the one who is the smarter will be able to figure it out using their mental resources.



Hmmmm... I like my shortcuts ;)

[mr_moon]

Hello!!

I decided to pay for my own subscription to the forum, as there was a little confusion with a couple of people as to the genuine nature of my postings, as my wife and I have been using the same account.

I'm not one for encouraging beliefs of 'deceit' or 'trickery' so here i am with my own user account.

Much Love from

Jay
xxxxxxxxx

[peter19]

peter19

Again the only person who can help you is yourself, think which is the more likely, ask other people, process the information but don't allow yourself to circum to brainwashing.

alot of things what could be considered brain washing i think people say, because they dont like it one way or the other - it challenges there belief system. i do trust myself, and because of that i get what i thinks right from hes work and leave what isnt. how do you know you are right all the time though baron?. you seem to say alot of people are disinfo or pushing the agenda and we are the stupid people who should just listen to what you say.

give me evidence that tsarion is disinfo/cia or what ever and ill have a look at it, but until then i like the man and trust myself to be able to tell if hes bullshiting or not.

are no shortcuts; no rules to tell if someone is honest and this has been so right back to the beginning of the human race

i believe there is and you can sort of get a vibe from someone, useing your intuition too see if they are credable people or just makeing stuff up as they go along.

[baron von lotsov]

Let me know what can happen if someone has the ability to manipulate your intuition.

Do you understand the science of brainwashing? Have you ever studied psychology? Please give an honest answer because I might test your claims out otherwise.

Now if you have then you can look at Tsarion with a different pair of spectacles, designed to decide whether the presentation is using known brainwashing techniques. Without any regard for content, just for one moment look at it from this perspective. If you don't understand psychology I think you need to understand that first. Like any science, if someone makes a claim and you don't understand the subject you are completely reliant on the opinion of others. As I said, there are no shortcuts, the deceitful rely on people's ignorance.

[king]

I just watched couple of 2012 Where History Ends Tsarion's DVDs:

now, is this guy full of it or what?
Tsarion is a "historian"???
ROTFL!

as i was PM'ing some of my findings on shit that Tsarion made in those videos, I discovered even more lies that Tsarion made up via wrong translations that are not even close to the true meaning.

But, for time being I will let you read words that someone else with good Tsarion B.S. detector has posted. "Zarathustra" in name is new to me, but i did made the connection with Tsar of Orion and Tsarion.

here it goes, from The Book Of THoTH Forum:


It's clear to me now.. Michael Tsarion believes himself to be Zarathustra..

http://www.book-of-thoth.com/thebook/index.php/Thus_Spoke_Zarathustra#References

"Zarathustra" (/tsaratuʃtra/) is the German version of the name of the Persian prophet Zoroaster, the presumed founder of Zoroastrianism.

So Tsarion, is really Zoroastrianism.. Or the Tsar of Orion.. Pray

Too bad half of his theories are made up, or based on authors who were making things up... He talks about Irish history so much, being the Atlantean foundation for civilization, yet i've never really heard him talk about ACTUAL history, aside from pseudo-history that only he, Jordan Maxwell, and a couple others are promoting..
_________________

This from "The Forum"
http://www.davidickeforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=28889&start=45

Quote:
I actually listened to Tsarion tonight, his 6/6/06 interview.
he sounded perfectly normal and he even said that he was mmber of rose crux lodge in San Jose.
He also said that Rosicrucian order is completely screwed up now, money and power grab running rampant.


Images of San Jose Rosicrucian temple..
http://www.rosicrucian.org/park/images/temple_night_hi.jpg

http://freepages.family.rootsweb.com/~soakbear/egyptmu2.jpg

http://freepages.family.rootsweb.com/~soakbear/egyptmu6.jpg

http://freepages.family.rootsweb.com/~soakbear/egyptmu8.jpg

http://freepages.family.rootsweb.com/~soakbear/egyptmu7.jpg

http://freepages.family.rootsweb.com/~soakbear/egyptm10.jpg

http://freepages.family.rootsweb.com/~soakbear/sphinx.jpg

http://freepages.family.rootsweb.com/~soakbear/egyptmu1.jpg

http://freepages.family.rootsweb.com/~soakbear/egyptm11.jpg

The shrine of Akhenaton is in this complex (Short flash movie)
http://www.egyptianmuseum.org/egypt/tour/flash/35aten.html

==========================

Well there you have it... I appreciate the beauty of Egyptian artwork and architecture, as every ancient civilization has its gradeure.. But here's Tsarion promoting his Rosicrucian lodge, and telling us that he's one of the "good guys".. Noooo MtSar, nothing suspicious about this at all... Never mind he charges $60 dollars for his DVD's...



http://www.book-of-thoth.com/ftopic-5976-days0-orderasc-20.html&sid=9d84bf1e3007a364c148ce9c7a74c722


please keep in mind that Tsarion was attending this (above) Rosecrucian temple in San Jose, by his own admission!
And you know what happens to members of secret societies... especially those that supposedly go public and start exposing their Masonic brothers.
My Mormon coworker (Mormon temple goer) told me that he cannot talk about secret rituals because they are "sacred" (by his words).
And, my coworker is lower ranking (Mormon brand of) Mason than those Rosicrucians, although the blood oaths are very similar, if not same.

Anyways, i am glad it is not only me who can read this Tsarion guy.
like i said earlier -- i do not trust this Rosicrucian science fiction writer
and tarot peddler that came from Maxwell factory, and if you study that look in his eyes ... well ... use your judgment and common sense...


All that average conspiracy reserchers will get from above referenced videos is confusion and mudding of the waters of what true history is.

not to even mention his "translations" that he seems to be pulling out of his ass that cannot be verified because ... they are WRONG.
Or his presentation with half of the information only, with very important and context changing information "missing" (not being mentioned)

Whatever his ulterior motives are -- he sure seem to have them.
Why otherwise would he, just like Maxwell make the shit up?
why would he not care if translations are right or not?
Is it because too many gullible people are in conspiracy research, following favorite heroes an gurus, so they flatly refuse to believe that their "hero" could be just making shit up or mixing bunch of other theories together until final product is "fascinating" ?

For those of you who have access to his DVDs and videos should analyze them carefully for correctness of information. Start with the translations, before you start accusing me of "bashing Tsarion."

I just think it is time that those who are not blind stop following the blind.

[eternal_spirit]

King that's interesting.

[edit]

But, for time being I will let you read words that someone else with good Tsarion B.S. detector has posted. "Zarathustra" in name is new to me, but i did made the connection with Tsar of Orion and Tsarion.

here it goes, from The Book Of THoTH Forum:btw...there is a link but that Forum is a blank THougHT

Tsarion
--T-Sari-On
Tau-to-log-y:cool:

[eternal_spirit]

But, for time being I will let you read words that someone else with good Tsarion B.S. detector has posted. "Zarathustra" in name is new to me, but i did made the connection with Tsar of Orion and Tsarion.

here it goes, from The Book Of THoTH Forum:btw...there is a link but that Forum is a blank THougHT

Tsarion
--T-Sari-On
Tau-to-log-y:cool:

....................

Weird, or not, technical problems or the infos been removed.

[razed1]

yes

may this thread separate the gold form the lead

;)

[eternal_spirit]

yes

may this thread separate the gold form the lead

;)

Maybe Watt was right then about Tsarion? Although I've never seen, or heard him say anything.

[synergy777]

see i think the trick with tsarion is to look at his info, with your own view. he is spot on with somethings but also off on somethings, he has the atlantean to eire migration wriong, imho. i think its from asia to eire. however his connections/etmylogy is also a combination of hit/miss. i think eire was a part of global empire, from india, egypt to eire. a colony/member of a global culture. celts, brahmins, hyskos, etc.

i think we should take the views of ancient global contact/empire existing at the same time, as from the time of alexander and before, europe, africa and asia were in contact with eachother.

as for jw, again truths fused with mistruths. they have good things about yahweh or as they wrongly put it jehovah, archangel michael/yashuah.

also john white, cool avatar.

[baron von lotsov]

see i think the trick with tsarion is to look at his info, with your own view.

How is this possible when he employs brainwashing? Do you have an expert's understanding of what brainwashing is what? Well if you don't then why expose yourself to something like that since this is exactly what these people want you to do? He is just like the government when they tell you that you haven't read the report so how can you criticise. Of course every government report employs the most dangerous and insidious brainwashing. So are you going to do what you are told and be a nice little NWO pawn? I say no, stay away from him (and government reports).

[synergy777]

i look at all info from all sources, from govt/un, to occult, to new age, to bnp/stromfront/afrocentric stuff. why, well all have some valid points, in order to see the full picture you need to see all angles/colours. its doesn't bother me, as i have my own mind, and will make decisions based on my conclusions from all info viewed.

discernment, critical/creative and independent thought is required. also being very stubborn helps, lol

[baron von lotsov]

Don't fool yourself. Anyone can be brainwashed and especially people who think like you do. The only way to be sure you are not being brainwashed is abstinence. You know enough to know what his game is so why do you need to read any more of this shit? Why not spend it on someone more likely to be telling the truth?

[razed1]

an ostrich with his head in the sand

[lydia78]

i look at all info from all sources, from govt/un, to occult, to new age, to bnp/stromfront/afrocentric stuff. why, well all have some valid points, in order to see the full picture you need to see all angles/colours. its doesn't bother me, as i have my own mind, and will make decisions based on my conclusions from all info viewed.

discernment, critical/creative and independent thought is required. also being very stubborn helps, lol

Bloody well said syn!
we aren't going to get to the truth if we haven't experienced...for how else can we gage what is truth or BS, how to discern and use our intuition or what have you...we cannot acquire such skills by fearfully rejecting experience.The human mind is in truth strong and resilent, once we align ourselves, do the inner work.

[baron von lotsov]

Bloody well said syn!
we aren't going to get to the truth if we haven't experienced...for how else can we gage what is truth or BS


Know how mind control works and if you see someone using it then leave well alone. If there is truth then more than one person will know about it surely. Why always think it is a good idea to go to dodgy people like Tsarion? This is what I think is up with a lot of you. You expose yourselves to cults and will not listen or learn but at the same time you think you are learning from Tsarion. Well I hate to tell you this but such behaviour is often exhibited in people who have already been brainwashed, so they have a subconscious desire to read more of the same type of material and to reject anything like what I'm trying to tell you lot.

[razed1]

well why dont you tell us how mind control works

you keep saying this, why dont you enlighten us on how this mind control is operating

[lydia78]

Know how mind control works and if you see someone using it then leave well alone. If there is truth then more than one person will know about it surely. Why always think it is a good idea to go to dodgy people like Tsarion? This is what I think is up with a lot of you. You expose yourselves to cults and will not listen or learn but at the same time you think you are learning from Tsarion. Well I hate to tell you this but such behaviour is often exhibited in people who have already been brainwashed, so they have a subconscious desire to read more of the same type of material and to reject anything like what I'm trying to tell you lot.

Thats not the case at all, as Syn articulated, by reading ALL available material and using discernment, or what have you, is a path for many..just because you expose yourself doesn't necessarily mean your going to follow it, but merely hear whats being said and then make your own mind up...think that's impossible? its not, its called being responsible for your own mind and not following the first option that sounds 'about right'...evaluation can only truely happen when ALL facts/researchers/theories etc have been reviewed.

[baron von lotsov]

It's impossible to read all available material, never mind remembering it.

[baron von lotsov]

Here he is brainwashing you


Can you find the still-point in the midst of all of this insanity? Or will you tranquilize yourself all the more. Will you edit, or will you observe.


This is an example of either/or brainwashing. Either you are one thing he wants you to believe you are or you are the other thing he wants you to believe you are. However the second part gives the subliminal command to opt for the latter if you want to be wise like he is. (You are supposed to think this is your ultimate goal with Tsarion, to observe like the master guru he is and acquire the hidden truth without any notion of being selective in what you read.)

[lydia78]

It's impossible to read all available material, never mind remembering it.

LOL, what i meant was, to expose yourself to as much varied material as possible...you cant learn if you stick to one source like glue can you?...you have to be strong enough to be open minded, and that means understanding there are 'false prophets' out there and to use intuition and discernment when evaluating..

[dinachick]

I respect the information and work that Mr. Tsarion has made available for us. I have his book "Atlantis, Alien Visitation and Genetic Manipulation" and it is a fascinating read, very heavily cross referenced. His mp3's are a good listen too.

Whether one likes or dislikes Tsarion, Icke, Watt, Maxwell, Freeman etc that's your business, but you have to at least give some respect to the fact that they are giving information for you to contemplate.

The world would be very boring without these guys. I for one like all of their work, ( I may not agree with everything they say,) but I take what my gut tells me at the time is right for me, and leave the rest.

[lydia78]

I respect the information and work that Mr. Tsarion has made available for us. I have his book "Atlantis, Alien Visitation and Genetic Manipulation" and it is a fascinating read, very heavily cross referenced. His mp3's are a good listen too.

Whether one likes or dislikes Tsarion, Icke, Watt, Maxwell, Freeman etc that's your business, but you have to at least give some respect to the fact that they are giving information for you to contemplate.

The world would be very boring without these guys. I for one like all of their work, ( I may not agree with everything they say,) but I take what my gut tells me at the time is right for me, and leave the rest.

Very well said dinachick!!

[eternal_spirit]

So it doesn't bother you that Tsarion admits to being part of the Freemason Rosicrucian Lodge:confused:
Could that be why he pushes Kabbalah, Blavatsky ascended master spiel:confused:

[lydia78]

So it doesn't bother you that Tsarion admits to being part of the Freemason Rosicrucian Lodge:confused:
Could that be why he pushes Kabbalah, Blavatsky ascended master spiel:confused:

Hey ES, I see what your saying but that's where our discernment kicks in..
we can only evaluate once we have enough info to make the decision on whose what and if they're leading us down the garden path..it's a constant process, information is constantly changing, updating etc, all the time, sooner or later flaws appear and inconsistancies arise..and when they do its down to personal judgement whether to take on board the info or discard it.

[eternal_spirit]

Hey ES, I see what your saying but that's where our discernment kicks in..
we can only evaluate once we have enough info to make the decision on whose what and if they're leading us down the garden path..it's a constant process, information is constantly changing, updating etc, all the time, sooner or later flaws appear and inconsistancies arise..and when they do its down to personal judgement whether to take on board the info or discard it.
...............

I don't trust him. But if you feel the need to study , like you say you may find some of his works of use. I think he may be their to mislead on some of the subjects. It's a maze the esoteric/occult and all who follow it get lost in that maze, some never find their way out.

[lydia78]

...............

I don't trust him. But if you feel the need to study , like you say you may find some of his works of use. I think he may be their to mislead on some of the subjects. It's a maze the esoteric/occult and all who follow it get lost in that maze, some never find their way out.

Sure thing..occult isn't straightforward whatsoever, but heres a small but important rule that guides me. when I am truthful with myself and others and not lie, I can trust myself, theres a bond of selftrust...the intuition and discernment is clearer, stronger and I feel my way through what is deceitful and or misleading...its hard to pull the wool over the eyes so to speak. Obviously theres alot more to extend on as far as that guidence goes, reasoning, evaluation,logic, cross referencing etc all come into play...but if he (MZ)is disinfo then he has to live with that, not us but him...its his responsibilty, mine is only to explore the truth...these are my methods i dont expect anyone to agree with them but they've served well...
As it goes MZ's voice grates on me a bit....superficial I know lol, but what i have watched of him, theres some good and some BS mixed in, particules of truth in a vast array of inaccurate details..he's not my fave researcher thats for sure but he's doing his thing and it doesn't bother me.

[synergy777]

baron, ask yourself this simple quuestion.

can you make an accurate assesment without all the data. if you can good on you, if not, then its a the only way.

as for brainwashing, well what do you mainstream history, organised religion, corporate media, etc is. its hardly gospel truth, heck even the gospels aren't the truth, lol

see the two points of control are fear and blind faith. fear, to stop us from questioning/thinking. blind faith, as it stops introspection and provides a one size fits all solution to the questions we dare not ask/answer, it takes away our personal responsibilty and gives us the ultimate cop out, we shift the blame to a higher power, elite/clergy/god.

beware of pariahs who offer panacea's, lol

[baron von lotsov]

LOL, what i meant was, to expose yourself to as much varied material as possible...you cant learn if you stick to one source like glue can you?...you have to be strong enough to be open minded, and that means understanding there are 'false prophets' out there and to use intuition and discernment when evaluating..


OK imagine a situation where there are a million books. 99% of them were written by demons and 1% were written by angels. The demons use mind control and their intent is to control you using these books and the angels want to liberate you so their books are intended to help you find the truth.

How do you solve this problem if you want to find the truth?

[baron von lotsov]

baron, ask yourself this simple quuestion.

can you make an accurate assesment without all the data. if you can good on you, if not, then its a the only way.



Yes, it is my job in fact. I program computers and spend a lot of time with 100% logical data. This data is stored in variables and you have millions of these things but you don't need so many, so the trick is to use a minimal set that all the other data can be derived from.

If c = a + b all you need to store is a and b.

Physics is a base science; all other science is derived from it. If you wanted to know how a cell worked in biology you could use physics to work it out but if you wanted to know how atoms work by looking at a cell then you would not be able to. So the most intelligent people use base concepts that are correct and deduce a multitude of other information from them. The New age is trying to suppress this higher-level reasoning. Join it at your peril.

[synergy777]

new age/organised religion, are two sides of the same coin, in fact they are elite controlled opposames.

one clearly shows you occult/satanic stuff but in lovey dovey way(new age), the other hides it by appearing all good/authoritarian(religion).

both are paths to satan.

look at symbolic not literal, dies for 3 days and rises/ wineter solistice, eat bread/flesh, drink wine/blood = eucharist/satanic ritual-canibalism, its fairy tales, brain washing.

why is it so powerful, they program us with fear/guilt.

they preach from the pulpits, while living in mansions and engaging in all sordid satanic acts.

so discern.

[baron von lotsov]

new age/organised religion, are two sides of the same coin, in fact they are elite controlled opposames.

one clearly shows you occult/satanic stuff but in lovey dovey way(new age), the other hides it by appearing all good/authoritarian(religion).

both are paths to satan.

look at symbolic not literal, dies for 3 days and rises/ wineter solistice, eat bread/flesh, drink wine/blood = eucharist/satanic ritual-canibalism, its fairy tales, brain washing.

why is it so powerful, they program us with fear/guilt.

they preach from the pulpits, while living in mansions and engaging in all sordid satanic acts.

so discern.

You are just repeating commonly believed ideology. Your reasoning is if it has a certain characteristic that is common then the underlying thing must be the same. It's a leap of faith again! You have not addressed my above posts. What I was trying to say is very important and could help you to see where a lot of people are going wrong in the pursuit of the truth. It's all about higher-level reasoning rather than just absorbing millions of perceptions that you have through your senses. You can make much more sense of it if you pinpointed the underlying mechanisms. You will also notice the New Age is trying to convince you to do the opposite to what I'm suggesting you do.

[pleasuredome]

great. lets all run along to the local 'kingdumb hall' and get common sense from the jovoes, lol. :rolleyes:

there's only 2 groups of people that hold a ritual to reject the sacraments of jesus... and the other group are satanists. enough said, imo.

[baron von lotsov]

great. lets all run along to the local 'kingdumb hall' and get common sense from the jovoes, lol. :rolleyes:

there's only 2 groups of people that hold a ritual to reject the sacraments of jesus... and the other group are satanists. enough said, imo.

You have had a NWO education. See my above post, you are just reacting on impressions. You make no attempt at investigating what is going on so you will always fall for the latest scam. You see when you judge something on what it looks like you are game for them. That's why the Illuminati put toxins into brightly coloured sweet wrappers for kids. Wake up for goodness sake.

[brotherapostate]

I am a former JW of 20 years. That website helped me a lot to get out, it's an anti JW site. Most posters are NOT JW's.

[umbrex]

I have been looking at Google and having figured Tsarion is a system stooge yonks ago I thought I'd see what other people thought. I typed in his name and found virtually nothing negitive. I then had to resort to typing in Tsarion Rosicrucian to see if I could find anything. Still nothing for pages and then the first sign of any common sense I got was from here.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/129827/1.ashx/Guardian+I+try+to+keep+an+open+mind,+many+don't

eg
============quote=================
Of course "Unidentified Flying Objects" are real. By definition they are something we don't know. That fly. There's lots of things I don't know. Now, if these government reports state that alien spacecraft are real, now that would be something.

and

I had never heard of Michael Tsarion, but after looking him up, I see he's of the David Icke sort... fruitcake idiots to say the least. Living in their own fantasy worlds... Conclusions based upon heresay, assumption, etc. The fact that Tsarion has also fallen into the "Indigo Children" pack and some unspecified Rosicrucian order (probably A.M.O.R.C., LOL!) only serves to decrease his relevancy.

If you are seriously postulating that Michael Tsarion deserves any credibility for his imaginative though ridiculous notions, then you should change your Board name from 'needproof', to 'needbrain', as the only thing that Michael Tsarion cannot produce is sustainable evidence.


============================
Now you know what these people are famous for. If they can suss it out why so few normal people? I used to type in his name and get 600 - 700 hits, now it is 65 000.

Weird hey?

tsarions interpretations of the old testament are actually some of the most exciting conspiracy stuff out there and falls totally in line with the grander conspiracy stuff, and puts modern day events into a cinsistent context. thereby not saying that all he says is for real, he does spin his facts for dramatic effect..

..how much of tsarions work have u been through ?

[baron von lotsov]

Are you employed by him or something?

[umbrex]

Are you employed by him or something?

are u always an arrogant idiot who thinks he always have the best argument and the most refined and true knowledge or have i just hit u on off days every time ?

tsarion does have some interesting points!

[peachped]

Jehovas witnesses are brainwashed lunatics, who cares what they say! :rolleyes:

[baron von lotsov]

Jehovas witnesses are brainwashed lunatics, who cares what they say! :rolleyes:


A bit of irony amuses me sometimes.

[eternal_spirit]

Jehovas witnesses are brainwashed lunatics, who cares what they say! :rolleyes:

LOl that much we know. The point is....is Tsarion brainwashing his fans? Or misleading them, down the path of occult madness and confusion.

[umbrex]

personally im not ruling out atlantis.....

[peachped]

I don't know but I would guess that Tsarion is just another snake oil salesman type making his way in the conspiracy field, and hey good luck to him! :)

[umbrex]

I don't know but I would guess that Tsarion is just another snake oil salesman type making his way in the conspiracy field, and hey good luck to him! :)

so much for objectivity..

[lydia78]

OK imagine a situation where there are a million books. 99% of them were written by demons

Yes the bible has done an excellent job!

[peachped]

so much for objectivity..

Ok then - I intuitively feel that.. :D

[helloperator]

I for one am down with Tsarion's ideas. He takes aim at all the most sacred traditions. He's very enlightening.

But he does like Alex Jones. Jones seems to get a lot of flack for being a stooge...personally I dunno. Tsarion has also been on Rense, who I have heard is a shill, again I dunno.

Tsarion hawks a lot of books, dvd's and the like...I doubt he sells mega copies though.

Anyway, I like the cut of his jib.

[pleasuredome]

You have had a NWO education. See my above post, you are just reacting on impressions. You make no attempt at investigating what is going on so you will always fall for the latest scam. You see when you judge something on what it looks like you are game for them. That's why the Illuminati put toxins into brightly coloured sweet wrappers for kids. Wake up for goodness sake.

if your thread wasn't totally fallacious to begin with, then maybe i would make more effort. you state in the title of the thread that what you posted was 'jehovah's witnesses view on tsarion' when what you're actually doing is posting your view via the quote and then saying that just because this one person(who you don't actually know if they are a JW) holds the same view as you, then that must add weight to your view being correct.

what is it about your view thats so important that it warrants scraping the barrel like this, hey?

[baron von lotsov]

I put it up because I found it interesting that a group who are well known by the majority on here to be the product of brainwashing so clearly understanding that Tsarion is what he is. Now it was precisely that this was so out of place in the mindset of a lot on here I thought I'd use it as an example to see what you make of it. It's like someone doing 70mph down the M1 does not make the papers but someone doing 170MPH does. It's just the way our minds work. A bit of entertainment perhaps. I didn't intend the thread to run to so many pages.

[synergy777]

baron i admire and appreciate your concern for me bro, but fear not.

i come from a culture where we have a history going back 1000's of years. we have our ways. we see this new age as merely indian stuff repackaged, its the east that gave you new age and organised religion.

i follow no man, learn about all aspect and make my own descisions, this is instilled in us from birth, to trust yourself and the most high/source.

personally the world is full of brainwashed people, from all abrahmic faiths to be frank, you three are responsible for most of the carnage in the world. you don't see the vedic faiths (hinduism/buddhism/sikhism) go around creating world wars, crusades, bloodlust for a vengeful god.

why do you think all three abrahamic faiths bow to rome. you are romes children, read revelations.

[eternal_spirit]

stirrer lol

[synergy777]

i'm just stating my opinion, my view, lol.

i think people who accuse others of being brainwashed, need to be frank with themselves aswell. they need to see their faults, brainwashing aswell.

all of us have elite memes imbedded in our psyche.

[lydia78]

i'm just stating my opinion, my view, lol.

i think people who accuse others of being brainwashed, need to be frank with themselves aswell. they need to see their faults, brainwashing aswell.

all of us have elite memes imbedded in our psyche.

And there it is...the bottom line!!
Well put Syn!

[umbrex]

i'm just stating my opinion, my view, lol.

i think people who accuse others of being brainwashed, need to be frank with themselves aswell. they need to see their faults, brainwashing aswell.

all of us have elite memes imbedded in our psyche.

Tbh it seems like the baron is a sad person with a gigantic ego problem..

I heard he has better internetz then others.

[eternal_spirit]

Tbh it seems like the baron is a sad person with a gigantic ego problem..

I heard he has better internetz then others.

.............

Strange you should draw this conclusion. The Baron is warning you that Tsarion is a Rosicrucian Mason ( a strand of a High masonic group which maybe the teachings of Knights Templar formed to disguise themselves) Do you think Tsarion is purposfuly misleading people? I do.



Btw the Baron has a knack for exposing their agents.

[eternal_spirit]

I heard he has better internetz then others.
...............

LOl better Internet? He does programme/work with computers. Is there a point to this statement?

[pleasuredome]

I put it up because I found it interesting that a group who are well known by the majority on here to be the product of brainwashing so clearly understanding that Tsarion is what he is.

your post doesnt show that at all. like i said before, you dont even know if this person who posted this view is a JW or not.

there is no consensus opinion on tsarion by the JWs. more than likely 99% of JWs have never heard of tsarion.

you should try aproaching a JW sometime and show them what tsarion talks about, such as tarot and astrology. i can assure you it wont be the reaction you posted. mention rosicrucians and they wont even know what you are talking about.

[majicdragon]

OK, how about this:

I really am dreaming my reality... So I dream up a guy named Icke, who warns me that there are disinfo agents out there. Then I start to notice that this Icke feller might not be on the up and up himself as he gets deeper into the reptilian thing when his only proof is a black eyed ex prime minister.

I dream up a guy named Tsarion... Same thing happens. Something amiss.

I Dream up Alex Jones... he warns about cointellpro... Same thing happens. I hold them up to their own light.

Now, in the same dream, I dream up a Guy named Ron Paul... He says he wants to save the world.

I get shivers just thinking about who he really is... in my dream that is.

Scary stuff this dreaming.

Amazing the amount of posts here. It's like my dream charachters who post at the same dream board as I do have to try and stop the (truth or lies) from coming out.

But wait... No-one ever tried to stop a lie from being told.

Just like the media won't try to stop lies from being printed.

They'll be like, "Oh, something not true? It's OK we'll print a retraction tomorrow"

But they find out that something is true that's "not fit to print" they're all, "stop the presses!" we cant let this out!

Here with my dream friends on my dream board, some dream they will be saved because they are good and they hope they deserve saving, and some dream they will be saved because they did all the coverup work they've been trained to do.

We're all gonna be saved... eventually... from ourselves. lol.

I love threads like this... the more controversial, the more I love threads like this. Too bad I arrived so late.

[Mo0n5tar]

.............

Strange you should draw this conclusion. The Baron is warning you that Tsarion is a Rosicrucian Mason ( a strand of a High masonic group which maybe the teachings of Knights Templar formed to disguise themselves) Do you think Tsarion is purposfuly misleading people? I do.



Btw the Baron has a knack for exposing their agents.

I believe templar gnosticism was incorporated into Scottish freemasonry via the Sinclair bloodline where Templar teachings were passed on(De Payen having married a Sinclair), as early as 1300's, hence egyptian ritual in initiations, resurrections in initiations, twin pillars the inner chamber etc etc Within this early incarnation of Masonry closely linked to the Egyptian concept/goddess of Matt, it is most likely that much was studied about the origins and meanings of Christianity, and the true accounts of the Holy Bible previously locked to interpretation would be opened by the freemasons and the templars KEY of context and history, unearthed in Herod's temple.

As i have it Rosicrucianism is a differant kettle of fish, more akin to sorcery/Alchemy/enlightenment than Templar Banking, hoarding, exploration, figures like Francis Bacon run parallel to those i would say were freemasonic=Templar proponents of the Bible, a far more escoteric equation.

Christian Rosencreutz was a German nobleman who had been educated in a convent, and had become initiated into the "mysteries of the secret science" while in Damascus. While in Fex (in Africa), he learned the techniques of magick and the nature of the macrocosm and microcosm. After returning to Europe, he formed a small convent called Sanctus Spiritus in Spain—which became the seed of the Rosicrucian order.

http://www.thelemapedia.org/index.php/Christian_Rosencreutz

I have personally never seen anything linking Tsarion to the Rose Cross, and do not doubt the Christians have good intentions, but i think Tsarions own words on the subject are poignant, that "Christians are a new arrival on the battle field of good versus evil", they may have some of the tools and wisdom but there are benevolent forces which far predate Christianity in antiquity, Tsarion raises the Celtic myths there are many other examples.

[eternal_spirit]

I have read Rosencreutz may mean Rose and cross. there is an order known as something like Rois et Croix (not sure of the spelling ) It maybe French/Spanish words, that translates in English as Rose and Cross, which means "Rosicrucian" Also means Rose and Cross. Roise et Cross may have been a forerunner to the Rosicrucians. Christians = Crosstians?

Templars, Baphomet, Gnoctism, King Solomon, Temple Mount, Jerusalem, Alchemy, magic etc....hence the Hexagram of Freemasonry.

All these Lodges are more than likely connected, with maybe different parts to play in the game.
The band Guns and Roses, the symbol speaks volumes, make of this what you will ...Axel Rose?

http://www.poster.net/guns-n-roses/guns-n-roses-appetite-for-destruction-5200139.jpg

The skull and bones? The Templar Skull ( Can't remember who's skull it was supposed to be ) But, think it played a roll in rituals.

David Bowie lived with Slash ( the guitarist )and his mother, when Slash was a child. Bowie is known to be into Gnosticism and the OTO.

[eternal_spirit]

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=143255&postcount=137

Mickyjay, Did you read this post?

[synergy777]

micky is on point. its from the days of egypt/amun to temple mount, then the crusaders/templars brought it to europe/vatican. the templars became the masons.

as for jw, a mason created them, enough said. they have corrupted yahweh and turned it into jehovah.

as for tsarion, why stop at the celtic angle, when celts are from the east. ogham was a sumerian language/shinar = iran/iraq. ogham became gaelic. you have to follow the path/trail.

[baron von lotsov]

Yes the bible has done an excellent job!


Being so flippant about something that was a very valid problem just illustrates why ignorance is so rife. Think about it and try again!

[baron von lotsov]

Tbh it seems like the baron is a sad person with a gigantic ego problem..

I heard he has better internetz then others.

I use the same internet as you do.

[lydia78]

Being so flippant about something that was a very valid problem just illustrates why ignorance is so rife. Think about it and try again!

The truth is baron, no matter what i write you'll not agree with it, and thats cool...what works for me does not require anyone else approval...I have explained myself enough on this subject and see no point in going around in circles. I'm never going to agree with christainity's methods, nor do I believe the bible...I don't rigidly follow any particular researcher, I like Ickes stuff alot and agree on some matters.....if you believe me to be brainwashed or whatever, then great, fine, you may be right but you may be wrong as well...however, I am aware, I have lived through real experiences of masonic manipulation and brainwashing, i know how it works just fine and I am repelled by it....they are equally repelled by me, so there you go, make of that what you wish, the bottom line is I refuse to live in fear of other peoples thoughts or projections...sod that.

[baron von lotsov]

I'm not suggesting you live in fear. I really don't know where you get that idea from. My point is a logical one. Given 99% of info is lies how will you know what is true? Your answer is to read everything but this is clearly impossible, hence you will need to decide on what you read. How do you decide is my question?

[lydia78]

I'm not suggesting you live in fear. I really don't know where you get that idea from. My point is a logical one. Given 99% of info is lies how will you know what is true? Your answer is to read everything but this is clearly impossible, hence you will need to decide on what you read. How do you decide is my question?

In truth, Im not sure I can answer you baron, but be it as I do not fear the unknown and that it doesn't serve me as a source of potential danger, but more as an opportunity to learn from any mistakes, fuckups etc. In my view there is truth found in the paradox....harmful energies have their vibe and intuition recognises that, books, information..trial and error, but the truth hides in the most unusual of places. If you read my amendment I did say to read as much varied material as possible, your right, you cannot read and contain every single fibre of knowledge but the true bits stick out and thats what i look for...I appreciate this is not a mindblowing reply but it is an honest one.

[baron von lotsov]

Well this is the important point. Once you start being more selective then this is when you really end up clever. You see you could read every newspaper every day and still be ignorant because the same crap just repeats itself over and over again. Once you start refusing to read mind control and realign your mind so that you cancel out the brainwashing in it that tells you to do so then you are onto a winner.

We all have it deep in our subconscious, most of it came from a time when we were too young to know we were being brainwashed and with parents who had never understood the concept. If you feel an urge to agree with something then take a step back and logically rationalise it. This is a way to break your own brainwashing. Also use past experience to judge it. For example, if you get the urge to buy a big box of chocolates and then you step back and recall your experience last time you did that. Often you will find rational analysis contradicts psychological urge and so this is when you know you have been subjected to mind control. Once you create a mental habit of check and then believe rather than thinking something sounds really good without thinking why then you are a free mind.

[Mo0n5tar]

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=143255&postcount=137

Mickyjay, Did you read this post?


Seriously, what the heck is the point of this thread you refer me too?

Too bad half of his theories are made up, or based on authors who were making things up... He talks about Irish history so much, being the Atlantean foundation for civilization, yet i've never really heard him talk about ACTUAL history, aside from pseudo-history that only he, Jordan Maxwell, and a couple others are promoting..

This first verse is flawed who else honestly agrees?

He offers no real damning convictions on Tsarion just some derogatory critique on his work, firstly it is obvious to me that Tsarions work is sourced, in what little i have studied of Tsarions research the stuff i have found has been satisfying, for instance Joseph Campbell, Blavatsky, Ignatius Donnelly etc.

I have found Tsarions work on the dramatis personae of the Bible to be very interesting and has led me into researching Egypt, the story of Exodus and Akhenaten Nefertiti, Ay and tutankhamun, his work on the shadow self and Jung is brilliant, i could go on, he is a straight talkin Irishman who like Celtic mythology and interprets some of it as history, fair play to him i say!

This from "The Forum"
http://www.davidickeforum.com/forum/...28889&start=45

Quote:
I actually listened to Tsarion tonight, his 6/6/06 interview.
he sounded perfectly normal and he even said that he was mmber of rose crux lodge in San Jose.
He also said that Rosicrucian order is completely screwed up now, money and power grab running rampant.


Error number two, i would not take the above as evidence of Tsarion being a rosicrucian, especially since there is no date or username for the quote, anyone could have said that, provide the interview and i will re-assess my position on MTsar.

King has also not provided any evidence for His claims;

"I discovered even more lies that Tsarion made up via wrong translations that are not even close to the true meaning."

King provide irrefutable evidence of Tsarion purposely using false translations> i myself have noticed translation errors in the presentation which have all been rectified upon consultation and research.

The rest of it is based on Tsarion promoting a lodge and some nice pictures of Egypt, I believe Tsarion puts more thought, concentration and reasoning into a dump than the poster did that post.

Even if Tsar is RC which i don't believe he is, that most certainly does not mean we should not investigate his theories, he has done the research and in the days before interweb patchworking, which we now see.

[synergy777]

I believe Tsarion puts more thought, concentration and reasoning into a dump than the poster did that post.


lol micky, you just merked that dude.

[Mo0n5tar]

It's clear to me now.. Michael Tsarion believes himself to be Zarathustra..

http://www.book-of-thoth.com/thebook/index.php/Thus_Spoke_Zarathustra#References

"Zarathustra" (/tsaratuʃtra/) is the German version of the name of the Persian prophet Zoroaster, the presumed founder of Zoroastrianism.

So Tsarion, is really Zoroastrianism.. Or the Tsar of Orion..

Seriously WTF!!!!!

Michael Staronions credibility has never been so weakly attacked.

[synergy777]

tsarion could tsar of orion, lol

his grandad was an indian amn called tara singh, a philosopher. i got the dude on myspace, lol. he has some great stuff, the vedic/celtic links he shows are huge, i like the etymology of words, the astro theology stuff.

has he done anything on the hill of tara?, if he has hook us up bro.

[baron von lotsov]

tsarion could tsar of orion, lol

his grandad was an indian amn called tara singh, a philosopher. i got the dude on myspace, lol. he has some great stuff, the vedic/celtic links he shows are huge, i like the etymology of words, the astro theology stuff.

has he done anything on the hill of tara?, if he has hook us up bro.


The word Tara, as I recall, has something to do with the elite. I forget exactly what but you might like to check it out.

[razed1]

http://i8.tinypic.com/8gfl3wi.gif


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b3/Major_15.jpg




is baron brainwashed enough. you think?>?


:confused:

[baron von lotsov]

I know you are an occultist pushing this crap.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13985

Do you think we are stupid?

It is just so clear to me what is going on now.

[razed1]

you should go see the latest addition to the song thread

muhahahahaha

[pleasuredome]

I know you are an occultist pushing this crap.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13985

Do you think we are stupid?

It is just so clear to me what is going on now.


ooooh!! he's an occultist! i'd better shun him then. :rolleyes:

come on, oh wise one, tell us all about what's going on. what is this paranoia of yours thats so significant? or is it a special secret? lol

[baron von lotsov]

ooooh!! he's an occultist! i'd better shun him then. :rolleyes:

come on, oh wise one, tell us all about what's going on. what is this paranoia of yours thats so significant? or is it a special secret? lol


People like that have no interest in finding the truth; they are part of the Illuminati agenda to push the occult. They use this forum to distract, to argue and generally to lie to people who are trying to find out about the NWO. They believe that if we accept their occult propaganda then we will all rise above everyone in 2012. Well for your information that is also the date the Illuminati are celebrating for the London Olympics. So much for being against them! Also you think everyone who is not into the occult as dumbed down and unawakened sheep. You are simply deluded, we know your game, we know what you are trying to do and we know Maxwell, Tsarion and Wilcox are all Illuminati, with no doubt at all. Where do you think they get all the money from for their 'free' DVDs?

[eternal_spirit]

How much evidence so you need. He's not going to go public on air is he?



Or maybe he did. Here's part of the Quote, that King posted from the Thoth Forum below. I haven't heard this. So I cannot say if Tsarion even said these words.

I actually listened to Tsarion tonight, his 6/6/06 interview.
he sounded perfectly normal and he even said that he was mmber of rose crux lodge in San Jose.

[pleasuredome]

baron

People like that have no interest in finding the truth; they are part of the Illuminati agenda to push the occult. They use this forum to distract, to argue and generally to lie to people who are trying to find out about the NWO.

your evidence for this is what? i mean, who the f**k are you to judge someone else on this forum like that just because they're into something that does sit right with you beliefs?

so what is it you use as your measuring stick to define what is occult and what isnt? you made a misleading post at the beginning of this thread in which you 'lied in general way'. so does this mean you are one of these people who use forums to distract people from all available information?

They believe that if we accept their occult propaganda then we will all rise above everyone in 2012. Well for your information that is also the date the Illuminati are celebrating for the London Olympics. So much for being against them!

wow, the olympics happens to fall on 2012. you seem to band about the word 'occult' like some jesus freak, so it would be interesting to know what you use to judge what is occult and what isnt.

Also you think everyone who is not into the occult as dumbed down and unawakened sheep.

interesting how you think you know what i think. are you psychic? because if you are, then i'd be careful because its dabbling in the occult lol.

You are simply deluded, we know your game, we know what you are trying to do

so, i'm deluded, and this is based on your opinion that you think you know what i think. lmao

and we know Maxwell, Tsarion and Wilcox are all Illuminati, with no doubt at all.

paranoia in the extreme! who is this 'we' lol? try coming up with some facts/evidence and put forward a coherrent case for what you believe. from what you've put so far its just been mumbled tripe with no value whatsoever. you use phrases like 'with no doubt at all' like you know everything and nobody else needs to think for themselves. have you been reading too many watchtower magazines?

[razed1]

ppl who share baron's pov are being phased out by nature herself

so no worries :D

he probably thinks speaking about nature, and the spirits of nature, is "occult" so therefor evil

baron next time you find himself in a meadow, where the birds are chirping, the grass is flowing in the wind, the mushrooms are looking plump, just make sure you have you crucifix with you to protect you from the "evils" of this place

:P

[titurel]

Anyone who thinks the world is not full of evils is either in full denial of reality or they're heavily on dope and don't give a damn!

[razed1]

hot or cold

who is to say that cold is evil and hot is good

day and night

who is to say that the day is good and night is evil



if you pray for peace, you are ENSURING that there will be war



humans don't understand

each feeling needs the other


every1 prays for paradise their whole life, when they will never reach it

the same person who goes protests that trees should not be cut down, will swat a spider in their home without a second thought


you must stop and become an observer of all things

[titurel]

Some people sound as confused, about bad, as this poor woman in the video that Baron posted earlier!

Giving Up Liberty for Freedom - YouTube

[razed1]

oh the dramatic irony :(

[titurel]

Too right... that sad woman doesn't know what evil is either... :rolleyes:

[titurel]

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

[razed1]

baron is my hero

[eternal_spirit]

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

.................

That's true, but isn't. Another contradiction, shift the blame. But has some truth, it's strange logic

[titurel]

Well, if no one stood up for blacks and all the badness that entailed, slavery may never have ended. We shouldn't just give up our freedoms without a debate, just because it's an easier and more comfortable life being an observer. Giving up like that is a sell out. It's mind control and just the attitude the spin wizards want you to adopt because it makes people like George Bush's life easier... I think we'll have to disagree!

[razed1]

your logic is flawed and that quote doesn't help your case :D

[titurel]

Explain why you think the logic in what I wrote is flawed and then I might be able to see your reasoning, and until you do, I can't... and why doesn't the quote help my case? Again, you didn't show any reason... !

[razed1]

i don't know man

you're still brainwashed by religion and think jesus is gonna come back in the flesh

your basically thinking that 'god' is playing favourites


i think you looking at things from the wrong perspective

theres a talk by deepak chopra called "alchemy and the art of spiritual transfornation"

he talks about merlin and king arthur quest for the grail

its really good to watch if you can find



that talk is a newer version of this one,

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-3313968958314441665

[titurel]

i don't know man

you're still brainwashed by religion and think jesus is gonna come back in the flesh

your basically thinking that 'god' is playing favourites


i think you looking at things from the wrong perspective

theres a talk by deepak chopra called "alchemy and the art of spiritual transfornation"

he talks about merlin and king arthur quest for the grail

its really good to watch if you can find



that talk is a newer version of this one,

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-3313968958314441665
I think you're the one who's brain wahed by your beliefs and you religion, and the reason I say that is because you're still avoiding the question I posed to you, in my previous post, regarding why you think my logic is flawed with reference to what I wrote. The difference between you and I is that at least I give reasoning for comments, where as you are avoiding sharing your reasoning. So please review the previous post again and clearly explain where the flaw is, instead of try to change the subject, thanks!

[eternal_spirit]

The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

..................

It's a contradiction. The evil men do evil which makes the world a dangerous place. Are we supposed to feel guilty by being ourselves which is ( not evil )By not intervening, stopping the evil ones from doing evil? Because that's what Einstein's statement makes me feel.

What do you suggest, we kill the evil ones? Then we would be doing evil. But you could look at it like this. "it's for the greater good"

Everyone has a certain amount of freewill. Unless hypnotised and mind controlled to a lesser or greater extent.

Besides, some say Einstein was a plagerist, much of his ideas came from Tesla, or? And didn't do as much as the History books would have us believe.

I'm all for peace but how the hell do we stop evil ones from doing evil?

Even the much championed Tesla was believed to be involved in creating HARRP, death rays and the likes of. Either under orders or by his own freewill.

[titurel]

The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

..................

It's a contradiction. The evil men do evil which makes the world a dangerous place. Are we supposed to feel guilty by being ourselves which is ( not evil )By not intervening, stopping the evil ones from doing evil? Because that's what Einstein's statement makes me feel.

What do you suggest, we kill the evil ones? Then we would be doing evil. But you could look at it like this. "it's for the greater good"

Everyone has a certain amount of freewill. Unless hypnotised and mind controlled to a lesser or greater extent.

Besides, some say Einstein was a plagerist, much of his ideas came from Tesla, or? And didn't do as much as the History books would have us believe.

I'm all for peace but how the hell do we stop evil ones from doing evil?

Even the much championed Tesla was believed to be involved in creating HARRP, death rays and the likes of. Either under orders or by his own freewill.
Too much can be read into the simple quote by Einstein. The spirit of what he was saying was that being a mere observer and not objecting to evil deeds only increases the amount of evil in the world because, through fear, people are often too afraid to stand up for what is good. Einstein is certainly not advocating violence because as Ghandi said, a policy of revenge will only make the world go blind. A good example of what Einstein meant was in the slave trade. If people had of sat back in their lazy chairs and fallen into a trance of comfort, i.e., just being an observer, then the slave trade would have flourished and would never have been abolished, thanks to the ACTIVE work of those who objected to it!

[eternal_spirit]

Too much can be read into the simple quote by Einstein. The spirit of what he was saying was that being a mere observer and not objecting to evil deeds only increases the amount of evil in the world because, through fear, people are often too afraid to stand up for what is good. Einstein is certainly not advocating violence because as Ghandi said, a policy of revenge will only make the world go blind. A good example of what Einstein meant was in the slave trade. If people had of sat back in their lazy chairs and fallen into a trance of comfort, i.e., just being an observer, then the slave trade would have flourished and would never have been abolished, thanks to the ACTIVE work of those who objected to it!

..............

I know what he means, there's another saying, by someone famous. "Evil men will flourish, if good men stand aside and do nothing" same thing really.

There were white slaves too. They like to miss this out the history lessons at school, so that some blacks will have a chip on their shoulder about the whites! This causes racial hatred.

The original slaves in America, where English and Irish men. The term "Red neck" Came about, because the white slaves would be working out in the hot sun, hence the sunburn, became too much, them being from a colder climate, many died.

So, the only reason they decided to bring the black slaves to America, was that the blacks could handle the heat of the sun. This is deliberately, or by ignorance of the facts left out of the History lessons at school.

The blacks sold slaves to other blacks long before the white man arrived. It's not a racial thing. It's the Elite in power the upper classes, don't care what race you are f you're one of the masses of lower classes, castes. There's more millionaires in India than any other country. In Africa there are powerful rich Elite blacks, who could share money to end much poverty of the lower classes, so why don't they?

It's the same as the Jew German thing. The Communist Jews killed millions more none communists in the Gulags, but they don't compensate or like to talk about that. Stalin Trotsky and co where worse than Hitler.

More facts left out of he history lessons at school.
So anyone German is reminded and prejudiced against by some even to this day!

[titurel]

..............

I know what he means, there's another saying, by someone famous. "Evil men will flourish, if good men stand aside and do nothing" same thing really.

There were white slaves too. They like to miss this out the history lessons at school, so that some blacks will have a chip on their shoulder about the whites! This causes racial hatred.

The original slaves in America, where English and Irish men. The term "Red neck" Came about, because the white slaves would be working out in the hot sun, hence the sunburn, became too much, them being from a colder climate, many died.

So, the only reason they decided to bring the black slaves to America, was that the blacks could handle the heat of the sun. This is deliberately, or by ignorance of the facts left out of the History lessons at school.

The blacks sold slaves to other blacks long before the white man arrived. It's not a racial thing. It's the Elite in power the upper classes, don't care what race you are f you're one of the masses of lower classes, castes. There's more millionaires in India than any other country. In Africa there are powerful rich Elite blacks, who could share money to end much poverty of the lower classes, so why don't they?

It's the same as the Jew German thing. The Communist Jews killed millions more none communists in the Gulags, but they don't compensate or like to talk about that. Stalin Trotsky and co where worse than Hitler.

More facts left out of he history lessons at school.
So anyone German is reminded and prejudiced against by some even to this day!
Good examples! Leaving out facts can also lead to the generation of evil. Thank you for not being a passive observer and highlighting all of this very important information. Thank you.

[baron von lotsov]

Too much can be read into the simple quote by Einstein. The spirit of what he was saying was that being a mere observer and not objecting to evil deeds only increases the amount of evil in the world because, through fear, people are often too afraid to stand up for what is good. Einstein is certainly not advocating violence because as Ghandi said, a policy of revenge will only make the world go blind. A good example of what Einstein meant was in the slave trade. If people had of sat back in their lazy chairs and fallen into a trance of comfort, i.e., just being an observer, then the slave trade would have flourished and would never have been abolished, thanks to the ACTIVE work of those who objected to it!


True, Einstein was a lateral thinker and the greatest ever example of lateral thought is Relativity. Who would have ever thought that weird things happen when an object approaches the speed of light like its length appears to shrink? All of this came out of just looking at a sort of philosophical problem in there being no absolute space. It was one of those rare cases when a philosophical idea became a mathematical proof of something quite odd. This is where the man was coming from and I do it myself a lot as well. You look at something in a weird perspective to see what the reasoning will lead you to. That's all he is doing here, opening up another path of thought for the reader to go down and investigate. As for Einstein's take on evil, well he was an ardent peace protestor so clearly he didn't imply anything like that. I know some people say he ripped his ideas off but not really, he was a clever man and you can see that by his own writings.

[razed1]

I think you're the one who's brain wahed by your beliefs and you religion, and the reason I say that is because you're still avoiding the question I posed to you, in my previous post, regarding why you think my logic is flawed with reference to what I wrote. The difference between you and I is that at least I give reasoning for comments, where as you are avoiding sharing your reasoning. So please review the previous post again and clearly explain where the flaw is, instead of try to change the subject, thanks!


i did explain in the first part of my response

ungrateful prick, why donut you get your head up off your shoulders, i shouldn't have wasted my time responding to closed minded layman like you who cant see past his own selfish brainwashing, at the same time self righteously talking about how ppl should 'speak out' against evil,

why don't you see the evil in your own ways, your mind is so warped,

someone posts good shit for you to watch, i guarantee you didnt even click on the movie i posted

but thats ok, cause ill give you a quote from a wise man

he said "never speak to fools, they scorn the wisdom of your word"

thanks!

[titurel]

i did explain in the first part of my response

ungrateful prick, why donut you get your head up off your shoulders, i shouldn't have wasted my time responding to closed minded layman like you who cant see past his own selfish brainwashing, at the same time self righteously talking about how ppl should 'speak out' against evil,

why don't you see the evil in your own ways, your mind is so warped,

someone posts good shit for you to watch, i guarantee you didnt even click on the movie i posted

but thats ok, cause ill give you a quote from a wise man

he said "never speak to fools, they scorn the wisdom of your word"

thanks!
A lot of ineffectual anger and false assumptions in your post, but the subject has been reasonaly discussed by others, cheers!

[titurel]

True, Einstein was a lateral thinker and the greatest ever example of lateral thought is Relativity. Who would have ever thought that weird things happen when an object approaches the speed of light like its length appears to shrink? All of this came out of just looking at a sort of philosophical problem in there being no absolute space. It was one of those rare cases when a philosophical idea became a mathematical proof of something quite odd. This is where the man was coming from and I do it myself a lot as well. You look at something in a weird perspective to see what the reasoning will lead you to. That's all he is doing here, opening up another path of thought for the reader to go down and investigate. As for Einstein's take on evil, well he was an ardent peace protestor so clearly he didn't imply anything like that. I know some people say he ripped his ideas off but not really, he was a clever man and you can see that by his own writings.
Well said, Baron!

[thirdwave]

The concept of having a Lord and kneeling in front of someone... is Satanic....

Put that with a torched dead man nailed to a cross, where you then drink his blood and eat his body... and that is also a Satanic concept...

like pretty much every religion out their, IMO its all a load of manipulating mind control to prevent man from evolving.

[thirdwave]

ungrateful prick

please try and keep these thoughts to you self ;)

[titurel]

The concept of having a Lord and kneeling in front of someone... is Satanic....

Put that with a torched dead man nailed to a cross, where you then drink his blood and eat his body... and that is also a Satanic concept...

like pretty much every religion out their, IMO its all a load of manipulating mind control to prevent man from evolving.
You look at the issues through the lens of Churchianity! If you weren't affected by Churchianity's research, and did your own research, you would recall that Christ said that he should not be worshipped, and that, IMO, would include not bowing down to him!

Also, it's true Jesus said, "Do this in memory of me", but he didn't say anything about making a massive showy gaudy spectacle of it. In fact, he didn't say anything about turning it into complicated lengthy ritual with masses, incorporating Pagan customs. What we see in Church today are the teachings and traditions of men.

Also, if you read Paul's account, in his letter to the Corinthians, he illustrates for us what Jesus meant:

"...do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me." - 1 Corinthians 11:25

In other words, Jesus didn't mean to imply "do this" just once a year. What Jesus was conveying was that we should simply remember him. We should remember him "whenerver" we drink and not just once a year, although, remembering him only once a year suits the Church, which is more interested in psychological manipulation and keeping people ignorant to suit the Church's ulterior agendas.

In the meantime, members of the Church who only ever go to Church on the Christmas Mass and the Eucharist and then, who on the next day, do gambling, forget the one Eucharist day until the next year and these people feel their soul has been saved by the Church but in reality, what has really happened is that they have lent some of their energy to the Church, which the Church then uses to prop up its illusory image so that it can further its aims in the world, the principal one of which, is helping to establish the Luciferian dream of a "new" world order, based on science and philosophy! Like the Christmas Mass, the Catholic Eucharist is a celebration of darkness and an act of spiritual cannibalism and vampirism.

Context:

"For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you: The Lord Jesus, on the night he was betrayed, took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, "This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me." In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me." For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes.

Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. A man ought to examine himself before he eats of the bread and drinks of the cup. For anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgment on himself. That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep. But if we judged ourselves, we would not come under judgment. When we are judged by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be condemned with the world." - 1 Corinthians 11:23-32

You need to break out of the mind control...

[thirdwave]

You look at the issues through the lens of Churchianity! If you weren't affected by Churchianity's research, and did your own research, you would recall that Christ said that he should not be worshipped, and that, IMO, would include not bowing down to him!

Also, it's true Jesus said, "Do this in memory of me", but he didn't say anything about making a massive showy gaudy spectacle of it. In fact, he didn't say anything about turning it into complicated lengthy ritual with masses, incorporating Pagan customs. What we see in Church today are the teachings and traditions of men.

Also, if you read Paul's account, in his letter to the Corinthians, he illustrates for us what Jesus meant:

"...do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me." - 1 Corinthians 11:25

In other words, Jesus didn't mean to imply "do this" just once a year. What Jesus was conveying was that we should simply remember him. We should remember him "whenerver" we drink and not just once a year, although, remembering him only once a year suits the Church, which is more interested in psychological manipulation and keeping people ignorant to suit the Church's ulterior agendas.

In the meantime, members of the Church who only ever go to Church on the Christmas Mass and the Eucharist and then, who on the next day, do gambling, forget the one Eucharist day until the next year and these people feel their soul has been saved by the Church but in reality, what has really happened is that they have lent some of their energy to the Church, which the Church then uses to prop up its illusory image so that it can further its aims in the world, the principal one of which, is helping to establish the Luciferian dream of a "new" world order, based on science and philosophy! Like the Christmas Mass, the Catholic Eucharist is a celebration of darkness and an act of spiritual cannibalism and vampirism.

Context:

"For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you: The Lord Jesus, on the night he was betrayed, took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, "This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me." In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me." For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes.

Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. A man ought to examine himself before he eats of the bread and drinks of the cup. For anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgment on himself. That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep. But if we judged ourselves, we would not come under judgment. When we are judged by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be condemned with the world." - 1 Corinthians 11:23-32

You need to break out of the mind control...



So we are in agreement that much has been manipulated with it...

I feel that at some point Christianity was jenuine and very benafisial... It was the realistation of what they called somthing along the lines of "Christ Concionsess" an understanding of the universe and the power we have within.... somthing many people have tried to teach people through out the years... (maybe Jesus was one of them)

yes he said not to worship him... yet so many do..... if Jesus was real he would be spitting bricks now!

Life Of Bryan was more of a statement than people think..... "Im not the messiah now fuck off" ...."how shall we fuck off oh Lord"

and that says it all...

IMO we did not come here to this life to learn about religion and other people above us.... we come here to learn about our selves... this is our movie no one else's... the amount of teachers we have had that have tried to teach us this is amazing... and yet people still don't understand its our deal...

Christianity is about heightened conciousness.... Christ is a word for it..... like many others translations of it around the world.... its not a man up there.... and it is not owned by Jesus or have any special link with Jesus... it is linked to us all.... and we all are it....

and any religion that makes you think you are in the hands of a higher power is in my views deceptive and will prevent you from learning more and evolving.

[titurel]

> yes he said not to worship him... yet so many do.....

Of course, but we can't blame someone if someones words are misused. The same goes for David Icke. He also requests that he shouldn't become a cult leader!

> if Jesus was real he would be spitting bricks now!

IMO, he is real and this is one of issues of Armageddon and the sorting of the wheat from the weeds. However, it's not for us to judge who is too wicked to change their ways. It's got to do with what's in the heart and we aren't privy to what's in other peoples' hearts. We can only recognise the the fruits of what others produce and ask or debate how things can be changed...

> IMO we did not come here to this life to learn about
> religion and other people above us.... we come here
> to learn about our selves... this is our movie no
> one else's... the amount of teachers we have had
> that have tried to teach us this is amazing...
> and yet people still don't understand its our deal...

I agree that we are here to learn about ourselves but we are not islands. Learning about ourselves also should include learning about others, which is why we have theatres and films about peoples' lives. We're mostly social beings who generally like socialising because through socialising and interacting, we can learn learn about ourselves.

> Christianity is about heightened conciousness....

There's much more to it than that, but yes, striving for a higher consciousness is a principal aim, although, I don't like to use the word "Christianity" because today, the term has such diverse meaning that it's practically meaningless!

> Christ is a word for it..... like many others
> translations of it around the world.... its not a
> man up there.... and it is not owned by Jesus or
> have any special link with Jesus... it is linked
> to us all.... and we all are it....

We are all potentially capable of rising above the lower Self, but not everyone is interested in that kind of development because, often, their attitude is that I'll get all this political power, and then I'll change... etc...

> and any religion that makes you think you are in the hands of a higher power is in my views deceptive and will prevent you from learning more and evolving.

All organised religions derive from the Kabbalah, according to Freemason Albert Pike. From my research in other areas, I've also found that to be the case. All organised religion is Babylon the Great, which Revelation goes into great details about.

[razed1]

ppl in this thread need more education on the real meanings of religion

all the religions are really talking about ASTRO THEOLOGY

the religion of the stars

humanity's first and ONLY religion

[titurel]

ppl in this thread need more education on the real meanings of religion

all the religions are really talking about ASTRO THEOLOGY

the religion of the stars

humanity's first and ONLY religion
There is much more to reality than astro-theology, and all organised religions are corrupt, including the biggest religion of them all - money. Atheism is another religion, although, it's not organised in the same way as Catholic Churchianity...

[razed1]

There is much more to reality than astro-theology, and all organised religions are corrupt, including the biggest religion of them all - money. Atheism is another religion, although, it's not organised in the same way as Catholic Churchianity...

youre lookin at everything from a scholarly/ book learning point of view,

you need to start looking at these things loigically

youre dismissing the subject of astro theology like its akin to someother trivial 'subject'


you should know really what astro theology is, it isnt so conveniently put into a cateogory of religion, like atheism , monotheism, etc


its too big for words ^ ^

[titurel]

Astro-theology is very limited in its scope and does not address issues such as other-dimensional life, for example. If you disagree, please show how astro-theology is relevant to life in other dimensions.

[razed1]

then its safe to say youre speaking on subjects you have no knowledge of

[titurel]

then its safe to say youre speaking on subjects you have no knowledge of
You're claiming that you have knowledge about astro-theology, so please answer my question in respect to how it addresses other-dimensional life. From my research, it falls a very long way short.

[Mo0n5tar]

ppl in this thread need more education on the real meanings of religion

all the religions are really talking about ASTRO THEOLOGY

the religion of the stars

humanity's first and ONLY religion

I think that is a gross over simplification of the facts, what do you base this theory on yourself or are you simply parroting what you've heard Icke and Tsarion saying#?

[gremlin]

in all fairness, the above satement was a quote, not barons opinion. but yes, jehovas witnesses are a crazy misled bunch...

aint that the truth, i remember a school friend years a go being so screwed up about his parents religion, he got the pi** taken out of him something chronic.

He was told join or be thrown out the house, what a bunch of t*ss*rs or what, so he joined saved being homeless. oh this is why they cant break their doctrines

[razed1]

I think that is a gross over simplification of the facts, what do you base this theory on yourself or are you simply parroting what you've heard Icke and Tsarion saying#?

no its not,

i havent heard icke mention astro-theology, but j.maxwell and tsarion do mention, this, and i agree, not cause i like to parrot, but cause its simply DA TROOF :D

[titurel]

Maxwell's story about astro-theology is interesting but it's only half baked theory, for the reason I gave above... it doesn't address other dimensional life...