Northern Ireland : Romanians

[void]

I'm trying to get a handle on what this is all about.

Of course, in a way it's exactly what it says on the tin.

Bunches of people were attacked for being from a different country.

But I have questions,the answers to which 'may' explain if these attacks were based on 'nothing more' than plain old ape brained - "Wwooooor, they're not Caucasians", or were these attacks made more 'likely' by other complex factors that weren't being addressed by local government?

I'm wary about posting something like this, because I know it can read the wrong way immediately. Let me be clear. My interest is in looking at such factors beyond the final "end point", to see if there was anything further down the line which only 'helped' such attacks more likely in the first place.

And then those things can be addressed without knee jerk "RACIST" reactions.

The report says 20 Romanian Familys.

(1) : In what capacity are the Romanians here? Economic migrants?
(2) : Are the majority of them working? Or are some (or all) claiming forms of benefits?
(3) : If working, is it in an area where work is very scarce at the moment?
(3) : How did these familys manage to secure these houses for themselves?
(4) : Was it with money from their own pocket? Or through state allowances?

Link to the video of the article (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8104287.stm)

[dangermouse]

I imagine everyone is getting tarred with gold teeth gyppo variety who beg and try to pawn off carnations as roses

[decim]

Why not bring the whole population of Romania to Ireland.
Bring all the Pakistanis, Indians & whoever else wants to live in the UK over too.

A 100, 200 million or more, let them all live here, we are having a party & the world & his brother are invited..

[jammasterj13]

I imagine everyone is getting tarred with gold teeth gyppo variety who beg and try to pawn off carnations as roses
LOL

I had some tryin to sell me some clothes pegs.:D

[dangermouse]

LOL

I had some tryin to sell me some clothes pegs.:D

Had one ask me for money i said i didnt have any and he followed me to an ATM machine. I had to tell him to f off ..

And I dont want to buy the fucking big issue .. or the big tissue as i like to call it :D

[basel]

i think its a little bit more than them trying to sell stuff on the street, how about you look and jobs, accommodation, and the fact that you have to queue behind them in the post office when they are sending hundreds of pounds that will never be spent in Northern Ireland back there respective countries.

Try them issues first

[bagatell]

Good questions Void.

Dangermouse can't you see the forest fire? Are there to many trees in the way?

[dangermouse]

Good questions Void.

Dangermouse can't you see the forest fire? Are there to many trees in the way?

Im not condoning any of the actions against any people, Im just saying I can understand peoples frustrations. Most romanians are here to work and earn a decent living, but there are elements who have no intention of ever working and are here to mooch of the state.

[anthony65]

I'm trying to get a handle on what this is all about.

Of course, in a way it's exactly what it says on the tin.

Bunches of people were attacked for being from a different country.

But I have questions,the answers to which 'may' explain if these attacks were based on 'nothing more' than plain old ape brained - "Wwooooor, they're not Caucasians", or were these attacks made more 'likely' by other complex factors that weren't being addressed by local government?

I'm wary about posting something like this, because I know it can read the wrong way immediately. Let me be clear. My interest is in looking at such factors beyond the final "end point", to see if there was anything further down the line which only 'helped' such attacks more likely in the first place.

And then those things can be addressed without knee jerk "RACIST" reactions.

The report says 20 Romanian Familys.

(1) : In what capacity are the Romanians here? Economic migrants?
(2) : Are the majority of them working? Or are some (or all) claiming forms of benefits?
(3) : If working, is it in an area where work is very scarce at the moment?
(3) : How did these familys manage to secure these houses for themselves?
(4) : Was it with money from their own pocket? Or through state allowances?

Link to the video of the article (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8104287.stm)

But I have questions,the answers to which 'may' explain if these attacks were based on 'nothing more' than plain old ape brained - "Wwooooor, they're not Caucasians", or were these attacks made more 'likely' by other complex factors that weren't being addressed by local government?

You are talking about Northern Ireland. Since when did the question of colour become a requirement to hate someone in Northern Ireland?

Protestants = white

Catholics = white

Remember?

This sounds more like a local community issue with outsiders.

If these are brown skinned Romanians or white skinned Russians or white skinned catholics, the result would have been the same.

I don't want to trivialize it, but it is very clearly not about colour.

Northern Ireland. Remember?

[anthony65]

Im not condoning any of the actions against any people, Im just saying I can understand peoples frustrations. Most romanians are here to work and earn a decent living, but there are elements who have no intention of ever working and are here to mooch of the state.

Agreed!

And anyone who has actually met and talked to Romanians would agree!

I've met some great Romanians! :)

Lovely, warmhearted, decent, honest people!

But there are some who you wouldn't describe that way...

What to do with them?

Send them to Balmoral, Windsor, Buckingham Palace with the rest of the scroungers... :rolleyes:

[jammasterj13]

But I have questions,the answers to which 'may' explain if these attacks were based on 'nothing more' than plain old ape brained - "Wwooooor, they're not Caucasians", or were these attacks made more 'likely' by other complex factors that weren't being addressed by local government?

You are talking about Northern Ireland. Since when did the question of colour become a requirement to hate someone in Northern Ireland?

Protestants = white

Catholics = white

Remember?

This sounds more like a local community issue with outsiders.

If these are brown skinned Romanians or white skinned Russians or white skinned catholics, the result would have been the same.

I don't want to trivialize it, but it is very clearly not about colour.

Northern Ireland. Remember?
Good call mate.

It's deffo not about colour or race. It's probably the usual immigrant bashin, comin over here takin our jobs, rapin and pillagin our women, takin our housin, blaady blaaady blaah.

Enoch Powell Syndrome all over again.

A lot of them Romananian folk could pass for some South East Asian people(s), I thought I saw me auntie in that lot, I hope she's alright.:D

Georghe Hagi class player.:)

[bagatell]

Im not condoning any of the actions against any people, Im just saying I can understand peoples frustrations. Most romanians are here to work and earn a decent living, but there are elements who have no intention of ever working and are here to mooch of the state.

Let's ignore the rotten apples for a moment. The Americans have the same problem with Mexicans. The Germans got a problem with Turks. France have the North Africans etc, etc, etc.

I'm a Brit that lives in Spain so I feel I have a handle on this that those of you who still live in your native lands may not appreciate. A lot of immigrants would love to be living in their homelands but for any number of reasons they can't. Those problems are global and largely a result of globalisation. Do know what NWO stands for?

[anthony65]

Good call mate.

It's deffo not about colour or race. It's probably the usual immigrant bashin, comin over here takin our jobs, rapin and pillagin our women, takin our housin, blaady blaaady blaah.

Enoch Powell Syndrome all over again.

A lot of them Romananian folk could pass for some South East Asian people(s), I thought I saw me auntie in that lot, I hope she's alright.:D

Georghe Hagi class player.:)

A lot of them Romananian folk could pass for some South East Asian people(s), I thought I saw me auntie in that lot, I hope she's alright

They are aren't they?

As in the Roma...

I thought they traced their roots back to India (although I heard tales of Egypt > `Gypsies).

Although Roma is supposedly Illuminati related...

Old Vlad the Impaler... Trannsyvania, Dracula, Drakul, etc. etc

Confusing innit! :eek:

[anthony65]

Let's ignore the rotten apples for a moment. The Americans have the same problem with Mexicans. The Germans got a problem with Turks. France have the North Africans etc, etc, etc.

I'm a Brit that lives in Spain so I feel I have a handle on this that those of you who still live in your native lands may not appreciate. A lot of immigrants would love to be living in their homelands but for any number of reasons they can't. Those problems are global and largely a result of globalisation. Do know what NWO stands for?

Doesn't Spain have problems with gitanos...?

And there are loads of Romanians there as well.

I'd say that ignoring the rotten apples only makes the situation worse, including for the majority of decent, hard working immigrants.

Treat everyone the same and things will be fine, but you have to take action when people live in an anti-social way.

I know... Easy to say... how do you define it, etc.

But the fact is that many gypsies / roma / etc. have made themselves unwelcome throughout Europe... and I'd argue that the poor kids are the next generation of victims. Look at how they treat their own. Is it racist to state the obvious?

I remember liberal Britain pointing the moralist finger at Eastern Europe a few years ago, but now they have to deal with the same situation.

And how do you accommodate people with deeply engrained anti-social attitudes?

Seriously... Any ideas?

[emerald]

A lot of them Romananian folk could pass for some South East Asian people(s), I thought I saw me auntie in that lot, I hope she's alright

They are aren't they?

As in the Roma...

I thought they traced their roots back to India (although I heard tales of Egypt > `Gypsies).

Although Roma is supposedly Illuminati related...

Old Vlad the Impaler... Trannsyvania, Dracula, Drakul, etc. etc

Confusing innit! :eek:

:D Nice try, Im Romanian. Try not to confuse ROMANIANS with Romanian gypsies, which are 99% of them scumbags. And theres no connection between them and Vlad The Impaler. Dracula was the fucked up countess Elizabeth Bathory. Stoker messed it all the way up.

[anthony65]

:D Nice try, Im Romanian. Try not to confuse ROMANIANS with Romanian gypsies, which are 99% of them scumbags. And theres no connection between them and Vlad The Impaler. Dracula was the fucked up countess Elizabeth Bathory. Stoker messed it all the way up.

See my earlier post!

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1056374&postcount=11

Agreed!

And anyone who has actually met and talked to Romanians would agree!

I've met some great Romanians!

Lovely, warmhearted, decent, honest people!

But there are some who you wouldn't describe that way...

What to do with them?

Send them to Balmoral, Windsor, Buckingham Palace with the rest of the scroungers... :rolleyes:

[anthony65]

:D Nice try, Im Romanian. Try not to confuse ROMANIANS with Romanian gypsies, which are 99% of them scumbags. And theres no connection between them and Vlad The Impaler. Dracula was the fucked up countess Elizabeth Bathory. Stoker messed it all the way up.

For those interested in reading up a bit more about the Romani...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_people#Jat_ancestry_of_the_Romani

** Apparently they did originate from India

** The French called them Egyptians in the Middle Ages which led to the term gypsies.

Romani and Romania... Made for confusion. But is there a link perhaps in the orgin of Rom in both names? Romania named after Rome / Roma?

I wasn't linking the Romani people to Vlad, but the name "Roma", "Rom".

David Icke mentions it in detail somewhere...

[scooby doo]

How about maybe it's because alot of people in Northern Ireland don't want to give the country away to foreigners like the main land has! Most Romainians over here are beggers BTW that is a fact. In times were alot of people born and raised in Northern Ireland are getting it very tough because of jobs losses and a falling economy it's kind of hard to justifie more people who come to the country who add nothing to it but just take out what little is left. If the government won't stop it and let it happen then the people have to sort it out themselves and if it makes people look like bigots then so be it. This open border policy is just another wing of the NWO. What better way to destroy a countries National sovereignty than to flood it with different people and just mix it all about! Northern Ireland on the whole for all it's problems past and present I'd say was never really a racist country but people are sick and tired of what has happened what with jobs losses etc etc etc. And I stand by the believe that it would be a sad day when Belfast ended up like London,B'ham,Manchester,Glasgow etc on the mainland. If this makes me a bigot then bigot me up but just remember that the left wing arseholes who opened the borders to tom,dick and harry know that it is all part of the NWO where we will all be the same as anyone else in the world!!!!!!!!!!! It's like a rotton tooth you know, easier to pull out!

Rant over but stand by it 100%. And to anyone of different colour or race born in Northern Ireland they are as Northern Irish as me in my eyes but when people who come here and bring absolutely nothing to the country in any way but to stand on corners and beg then they have no place here. Dispite what some brainwashed PC head might say this is all the Romanians do over here. BIG ISSUE sellers which is a legel form to beg.

[raven200]

I think there is definately a lot more rascism in todays society, reason being that before people did not have much information available to them about other cultures and communities.

But now in the digital era, everyone can research and find out everything about cultures and people.

Taking all this into consideration is has become obvious that a lot of people are not willing to merge with people from outside of there community, this works both ways be it an asian man in an asian community or a white man in a white community.

The integration part has never been properly implemented by governments in order to keep a divide.

Multi culturalism is mis understood by a lot of people, they think it means people living togather of all races, but in fact multi culture creates a divide by allowing communities to develop seperately by there race and background etc.

I think governments are a major cause of rascism by keeping a multiculture divide.

In relation to the romanions, they have a real bad reputation and in a lot of cases they deserve the reputation as I have seen how these people live.

They have late night, alcoholic parties and do a lot of begging by pretending to be war stricken kosovons. A lot of them had made gangs that went round in vans and dropped off women and children on streets to go house to house begging.

I wonder if they were doing a lot of that in Ireland because it was a daily occurance and still is here in the UK.

I'm not white but I know what they are like, but if they are really being good citizens and still being treated as they are said to be then that is disgusting!!!

[snakehips33]

If you think society is getting more racist i'd love for you to name a period were we have had less racism. I've travelled the world and i can tell you nowhere has a more mixed society than the UK and as whole people get on. The English are a very funny race, i've seen people over here who are perceived by some to be racist yet their best friends will be Black or Pakistani, even people who act homophobic but have gay friends. The English are the best at taking the piss and that's what mates do. Sometimes a racist remark is just banter with friends. There a racist minority, but if you were to look back in time 30-40 years back the majority of the country was brought up to be racist, that's not the case today, maybe towards muslims but England is a fair country and these opinions will change when the people start to understand their neightbours as they usually learn to do.

[basel]

How about maybe it's because alot of people in Northern Ireland don't want to give the country away to foreigners like the main land has! Most Romainians over here are beggers BTW that is a fact. In times were alot of people born and raised in Northern Ireland are getting it very tough because of jobs losses and a falling economy it's kind of hard to justifie more people who come to the country who add nothing to it but just take out what little is left. If the government won't stop it and let it happen then the people have to sort it out themselves and if it makes people look like bigots then so be it. This open border policy is just another wing of the NWO. What better way to destroy a countries National sovereignty than to flood it with different people and just mix it all about! Northern Ireland on the whole for all it's problems past and present I'd say was never really a racist country but people are sick and tired of what has happened what with jobs losses etc etc etc. And I stand by the believe that it would be a sad day when Belfast ended up like London,B'ham,Manchester,Glasgow etc on the mainland. If this makes me a bigot then bigot me up but just remember that the left wing arseholes who opened the borders to tom,dick and harry know that it is all part of the NWO where we will all be the same as anyone else in the world!!!!!!!!!!! It's like a rotton tooth you know, easier to pull out!

Rant over but stand by it 100%. And to anyone of different colour or race born in Northern Ireland they are as Northern Irish as me in my eyes but when people who come here and bring absolutely nothing to the country in any way but to stand on corners and beg then they have no place here. Dispite what some brainwashed PC head might say this is all the Romanians do over here. BIG ISSUE sellers which is a legel form to beg.

Ha Scooby where shaggy lol

No but seriously http://www.ardsforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=130

[anthony65]

If you think society is getting more racist i'd love for you to name a period were we have had less racism. I've travelled the world and i can tell you nowhere has a more mixed society than the UK and as whole people get on. The English are a very funny race, i've seen people over here who are perceived by some to be racist yet their best friends will be Black or Pakistani, even people who act homophobic but have gay friends. The English are the best at taking the piss and that's what mates do. Sometimes a racist remark is just banter with friends. There a racist minority, but if you were to look back in time 30-40 years back the majority of the country was brought up to be racist, that's not the case today, maybe towards muslims but England is a fair country and these opinions will change when the people start to understand their neightbours as they usually learn to do.

I agree that society was more racist in the past, but perhaps in a different way.

A couple of generations ago most white people in the UK simply didn't meet people of other colours unless it was to shoot them in a colonial war or oversee them somewhere out in the Empire.

It was a racism built around ignorance. The black man was still the bogey man to many.

That changed a bit in world war two when the US brought over loads of black soldiers to England and many people were a bit shocked about the racism of the Americans which was something much more real.

Over the past few generations I'd say that most people have simply got on with their lives and accepted people of other colours without making a big deal of it. I could name examples from personal experience, but that's for each individual to see for themselves.

Multi-culturalism is designed to create provocation. Mass immigration was designed to create provocation (there was never an economic necessity to immigration). Enoch Powell predicted Rivers of Blood and I wonder if was an insider or outsider prophet of the future. Insider I reckon.

Anyway. The elite have created the situation they wanted to create social unrest and provide an excuse for a crackdown on civil liberties, but they missed out on one thing...

Most people are a lot fairer than they are.

Most British people are fair by nature.

Yes, they get pissed off by unfairness, often generated intentionally by the elite and publicized in the elite media...

But the majority of the British people are too decent to fall into the hate spiral. Not all of them of course, but that applies to some in other ethnic groups as well.

Many of us have truly recognized that skin colour or religion are irrelevant.

A cunt is a cunt.

A decent person is a decent person.

Simple. :)

[belial]

Let's hope the 2nd EU (Irish) referendum is not fixed by the EU?

After all, this incident has been caused by the EU's open borders policy. The same Nazi EU that is forcing their Socialist/Nazi agenda upon us.

How predictable that the Zionist/left-wing controlled media has not picked up on this?!?!?...

... no... the race card is being played again.

[dangermouse]

chillax

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XVVZPefbR4

[scatlond]

A couple of years back the Romanian immigrants/asylum seekers/refugees/gypsies cornered the Big Issue market throughout the West of Scotland.They were very well organized and it was definitely "professional begging". I dont know what happened but the indigenous homeless have now reclaimed the streets. Maybe the Romanians moved to Northern Ireland.

[d9d9d9]

Bring all the Pakistanis, Indians & whoever else wants to live in the UK over too.


Why not? After all they were part of the Great British Empire once and were (and still are) bleed dry by the same empire. Time to pay the bill, don't you think?

Oh and by the way I'm sick of racist people like yourself taking over these forums.

[yozhik]

And anyone who has actually met and talked to Romanians would agree!

I've met some great Romanians! :)

Lovely, warmhearted, decent, honest people!



Romanians? or Romani?
Same mistake as calling all Jews, Zionists.

Romanians might well be "lovely, warmhearted, decent, honest people" as you suggest.
My experience and view of Romani, is somewhat different.

In Hungary, the Romani (gypsies) are often at the centre of organised crime and violent crime. Petty crime goes without saying. They breed like rabbits, with the average "children per female" rate being 10.

There is a very real fear that in as little as two generations, the Romani population will outnumber the local population.

They seldom contribute to a community; rather take - either in the way of crime or benefits.

Not racist nor prejudiced; its fact.

[decim]

Why not? After all they were part of the Great British Empire once and were (and still are) bleed dry by the same empire. Time to pay the bill, don't you think?

Oh and by the way I'm sick of racist people like yourself taking over these forums.

Yes every body pack your bags we are going on a guilt trip.

Bring them all in, bring the whole world into the UK, we owe so much to every country on the planet.
We are in their debt, eternally.

Taking over?

Are you suggesting my posts represent some sort of imperialist "take over" comrade?
Have you any evidence to support "your" claim of my "racist take over"?

[tom bombadil]

I have not read them all.

But a few things strike me at once.


Ireland voted against the lisban treaty.
Although the 'violance' is in uk teritory (northern ireland) it is odd that the telly would constantly state that it took place from lisbane street, even though it ran through quite a few other streets.

So to me (in some way that I dont understand) all this hardship against a foreigner is related to the lisban treaty.


Things that make you go Hmmm!



Nelly.

[phildee3]

Isn't it unionists trying to run them out 'cause they tend to vote Sinn Fein?

[scooby doo]

Let's hope the 2nd EU (Irish) referendum is not fixed by the EU?

After all, this incident has been caused by the EU's open borders policy. The same Nazi EU that is forcing their Socialist/Nazi agenda upon us.

How predictable that the Zionist/left-wing controlled media has not picked up on this?!?!?...

... no... the race card is being played again.

Of course it is. Like I said in my post. All part of the NWO plan to flood countries with diff types of people then just stir it up till ur left with a country that has no identity or no real national sovereignty that matters. If you think I'm over playing this fact check many a country in Western Europe and how the people of these countries feel about it now. Yes it's nice to be nice but when floods of immigrants come to a country and contribute next to nothing. And the ones who do work send most of their money back to their home country then people there is a problem. The British goverment (well I'm sure you all have a bone to pick with them at the min over one thing or another, if not this.For me this is one of many) has done nothing to stop this problem and has even (proven) to have gone to the lengths of cooking the books on the real figures of immigrants.

Maybe the people of Nothern Ireland after going though what it has gone through over the last 40 years (the last 10 being mostly peaceful) don't want to give up there country to people who arrive and just suck of the system and expect to get lifted and layed because the British goverment say's 'come on in sure we'll look after you while our country falls apart'. Maybe people thought naw bollocks to this, why should we have polish,Romainain beggers on our streets when there is enough shite in our own country, hardly any work etc etc etc. Maybe if more people thought like this then maybe the NWO masters and their puppet goverments won't be able to fuck-up the countries of the western world so much that people will beg them to step in when they come wearing the white hat looking like the good guy to solove all their problems? Just a thought.

P.S.If I wanted to go and settle in Israel I would not be allowed to as I am not a Israel citizen yet a citizen of Israel could settle here in Northern Ireland. Now I've nothing against the oridary Israeli but why is this ok for Israel but if any other country done that now tomorrow they would be called every name under the sun from Racist to Bigot etc etc etc. Make of that waht you will.

P.P.S. Maybe because Isreal is a Zionst owned/run country? Thoughts please.

And no not all Jews are Zionists as there are protestant and catholic zionist as well the world over. Zionist is NOT a religion but a political ideaology.

[phildee3]

I think that those of you who support a British, anti-immigration policy should remember that the Brits. themselves are settlers in a foreign land.

[scooby doo]

I think that those of you who support a British, anti-immigration policy should remember that the Brits. themselves are settlers in a foreign land.

And I think that Britian needs to clean up it's own back yard before it goes knocking on it's neighbours door!

[Ian2day]

er its fake.

[phildee3]

And I think that Britian needs to clean up it's own back yard before it goes knocking on it's neighbours door!

What do you mean by "knocking on it's neighbours door"?

[scooby doo]

What do you mean by "knocking on it's neighbours door"?

If you can't work it out then no point in even trying to explain it. If you read my other two posts I left in detail it should explain it for you.

Try to think outside the box. You're looking at it from a Northern Ireland/Eire angle. Prod v taig etc. Like say think outside the box :rolleyes:

[phildee3]

If you can't work it out then no point in even trying to explain it. If you read my other two posts I left in detail it should explain it for you.



I just read them but I'm none the wiser.
Does anyone else get it?

[scooby doo]

I just read them but I'm none the wiser.
Does anyone else get it?

Well depends if you think that mass immigration is a good thing or bad thing. If you might happen to think that it is to weaken EVERY western countries solvency and nationality therefore making it easier for a New World Order. I believe this and don't think it is that hard to grasp :rolleyes: Like say depends what you believe! ;):cool:

[phildee3]

Well depends if you think that mass immigration is a good thing or bad thing.



I don't think either, particularly.
What does that have to do with identifying who you mean by "Britain's neighbour," and what constitutes "knocking on their door"?

[scooby doo]

I don't think either, particularly.
What does that have to do with identifying who you mean by "Britain's neighbour," and what constitutes "knocking on their door"?

Spoken like a true socialist! Like the way you left out the rest of my reply about the main reason why I'm oppsed to mass immergration. You nailed your flag to the mass with the 'oh I thought it was because they voted for Sien Finn remark. You're first on this post no less. And why would Romanian street beggers guised as 'big issue sales people' vote for Sien Finn BTW???? Makes about as much sense as you.

P.S. Britian has two neighbours douchebag! :rolleyes:

[phildee3]

Spoken like a true socialist! Like the way you left out the rest of my reply about the main reason why I'm oppsed to mass immergration. You nailed your flag to the mass with the 'oh I thought it was because they voted for Sien Finn remark. You're first on this post no less. And why would Romanian street beggers guised as 'big issue sales people' vote for Sien Finn BTW???? Makes about as much sense as you.



First of all I'm no more a socialist than I am a Conservative.
I'm pretty much 50 - 50 and I don't vote or campaign for one side or the other.
The question of this thread, as I understand it to be, is why are the Romanians being bullied? I suggested that maybe some unionists were trying to chase them out because they might tend towards voting Sinn Fein.
Why??
Because they are mostly Catholic.

The media are saying that the attacks are not sectarian but I question this.



P.S. Britian has two neighbours.



mmmm.. I love guessing games. :D
The Republic of Ireland, the Isle of Man, Jersey, Guernsey, France, Belgium, Netherlands.
Are they in that group?

[belfast atheist]

most emigrants in NI live in loyalist/protestant areas. there is no room in catholic areas of belfast where these people would be more welcome if there was. the romanians were attacked because they are CATHOLICS. poles are attacked because they are catholics too. these attacks are organised by loyalist groups ie UDA UVF ect because they have links to COMBAT-18 and the BNP. blacks and asian people are being atacked in south belfast just for being a different colour by these scumbags. the cops are sitting back and letting it happen like they did with portadown catholic robert hamill when the RUC sat back in a jeep and watched as a crowd of loyalist scum kicked him to death. these nazi lovin scum deserve death for the carnage they've done.

[scooby doo]

First of all I'm no more a socialist than I am a Conservative.
I'm pretty much 50 - 50 and I don't vote or campaign for one side or the other.
The question of this thread, as I understand it to be, is why are the Romanians being bullied? I suggested that maybe some unionists were trying to chase them out because they might tend towards voting Sinn Fein.
Why??
Because they are mostly Catholic.

The media are saying that the attacks are not sectarian but I question this.



mmmm.. I love guessing games. :D
The Republic of Ireland, the Isle of Man, Jersey, Guernsey, France, Belgium, Netherlands.
Are they in that group?

You're tiresum :( and i'm tired of talking to you to be honest.

[belfast atheist]

I just read them but I'm none the wiser.
Does anyone else get it?

no

[decim]

First of all I'm no more a socialist than I am a Conservative.
I'm pretty much 50 - 50 and I don't vote or campaign for one side or the other.
The question of this thread, as I understand it to be, is why are the Romanians being bullied? I suggested that maybe some unionists were trying to chase them out because they might tend towards voting Sinn Fein.
Why??
Because they are mostly Catholic.


That kind of sums up your ignorance.

[scooby doo]

most emigrants in NI live in loyalist/protestant areas. there is no room in catholic areas of belfast where these people would be more welcome if there was. the romanians were attacked because they are CATHOLICS. poles are attacked because they are catholics too. these attacks are organised by loyalist groups ie UDA UVF ect because they have links to COMBAT-18 and the BNP. blacks and asian people are being atacked in south belfast just for being a different colour by these scumbags. the cops are sitting back and letting it happen like they did with portadown catholic robert hamill when the RUC sat back in a jeep and watched as a crowd of loyalist scum kicked him to death. these nazi lovin scum deserve death for the carnage they've done.

Nothing like the gypsies/travelers being burnt out in West Belfast at the moment then huh. Didn't make the national news that one though.
A whole house was burnt out day before the romanians story. It only made the Northern Ireland news. And had Sien Finn folk on talking about it so hardly a prod area.

For whats it's worth I personally have a great way to solve the Northern Ireland problem...hows this...It becomes it's own country in every right. Not part of the UK mainland in anyway shape or form or The Rep of Ireland in any shape or form. Gets a new national athem,flag. If prods don't like it piss off to the mainland which does not want us and if catholics don't like it piss-off to Eire which does not want us and let the rest of us get on with it...how good would that be :D:cool: As for beggers from other countries they can stay in their own country because what ever way you cut it the way things are going there just isn't enough to cut it no matter if you're catholic or prod the way things are going at the mo no matter which way Northern Ireland goes. Point in case!

[scooby doo]

no

he he there's a suprise :rolleyes: Sad that you can't think outside the box really. :confused::confused::confused:

[yozhik]

The question of this thread, as I understand it to be, is why are the Romanians being bullied?

Romanians???? ... or Romani????

Romanians = a person from Romania.
Romani = Gypsy

(you know ... like the difference between Jews and Zionists) :rolleyes:

[scatlond]

For whats it's worth I personally have a great way to solve the Northern Ireland problem...hows this...It becomes it's own country in every right. Not part of the UK mainland in anyway shape or form or The Rep of Ireland in any shape or form. Gets a new national athem,flag. If prods don't like it piss off to the mainland which does not want us and if catholics don't like it piss-off to Eire which does not want us and let the rest of us get on with it...how good would that be :D:cool: As for beggers from other countries they can stay in their own country because what ever way you cut it the way things are going there just isn't enough to cut it no matter if you're catholic or prod the way things are going at the mo no matter which way Northern Ireland goes. Point in case!

If I could, Id build a wall, around old Donegal

The north and south, to keep them out

By God Id build it tall.

[scooby doo]

If I could, Id build a wall, around old Donegal

The north and south, to keep them out

By God Id build it tall.

cheers for the input bob :rolleyes:

[h2pogo]

can i butt in here and say from experience i have met some very genuine romanian gypsies (with lots of gold teef and jewelry).lovley people but they get shit every where they go even though they dont steal or claim benefits.
there is an exeption to every rule.

[decim]

there is an exeption to every rule.

No there isn't.

[h2pogo]

No there isn't.

ok then what rule insnt there one for.

[h2pogo]

ok then what rule insnt there one for.example please

the only one i can think of is you live and you die but then that may only apply to ones body not soul.

[breezinreezin]

Interestingly, ITV screened one of those cop camera programmes showing Romanian (Gypsy) pickpockets and beggars operating in Soho. Business looked to be very good. The pick pockets had thousands of pounds in various currancies and the beggars weren't doing too bad either. The pickpockets, who were clearly very skilled in their trade, got six months, but will be allowed to stay in the country after they've served their time. But hey, this is the sort of entrepreneurial spirit we need in the UK.

[h2pogo]

Interestingly, ITV screened one of those cop camera programmes showing Romanian (Gypsy) pickpockets and beggars operating in Soho. Business looked to be very good. The pick pockets had thousands of pounds in various currancies and the beggars weren't doing too bad either. The pickpockets, who were clearly very skilled in their trade, got six months, but will be allowed to stay in the country after they've served their time. But hey, this is the sort of entrepreneurial spirit we need in the UK.

wow police catching real criminals thats a first.

[breezinreezin]

wow police catching real criminals thats a first.

your powers of observation are letting you down. They were real Romanian (Romany) real criminals, just like the lovely, long-frocked, 18 carat smile, Gypsies you mentioned you'd met, and who're the subject of the thread. I reckon they hexed you with the 3 wise monkey curse.

[h2pogo]

your powers of observation are letting you down. They were real Romanian (Romany) real criminals, just like the lovely, long-frocked, 18 carat smile, Gypsies you mentioned you'd met, and who're the subject of the thread. I reckon they vexed you with the 3 wise monkey curse.

LOL
no the ones i knew woked hard they would beg when they couldnt find work but hated thieves as much as any one.
i just dont like how people are tared with the same old brush.
i also know scousers that dont steal.
it is nice to know the police dont just steal as well.
romanian gypsies are nothing to do with romany btw.

[breezinreezin]

LOL
no the ones i knew woked hard they would beg when they couldnt find work but hated thieves as much as any one.
i just dont like how people are tared with the same old brush.
i also know scousers that dont steal.
it is nice to know the police dont just steal as well.
romanian gypsies are nothing to do with romany btw.

Nothing to do with Romania you say. Go on, educate me. What are they to do with?

[h2pogo]

Nothing to do with Romania you say. Go on, educate me. What are they to do with?

they are a nomadic people who originate from india many many years ago.
they have their own language which is not romanian.
they have a lot to do with horses and caravans.
or should i say trailers

[seanx]

Scoobi do wrote;
Maybe the people of Nothern Ireland after going though what it has gone through over the last 40 years (the last 10 being mostly peaceful) don't want to give up there country to people who arrive and just suck of the system and expect to get lifted and layed because the British goverment say's

There's irony for you!

How did you unionists -immigrants come to ireland in the first place?

Through the British government wriping out the native population
so that you guys could settle here and pretend it is part of Britian?

So I wouldn't be too hard on other people coming to ireland to settle
down, would you?

[decim]

your powers of observation are letting you down. They were real Romanian (Romany) real criminals, just like the lovely, long-frocked, 18 carat smile, Gypsies you mentioned you'd met, and who're the subject of the thread. I reckon they hexed you with the 3 wise monkey curse.
lol.

[decim]

Scoobi do wrote;
There's irony for you!
How did you unionists -immigrants come to ireland in the first place?
Through the British government wriping out the native population
so that you guys could settle here and pretend it is part of Britian?
So I wouldn't be too hard on other people coming to ireland to settle
down, would you?

Hello sean, is some one being a naughty racist?
Tch Tch!

Of course we need Millions & Millions more immigrants in the UK & Ireland, North & South, just think of the kind of utopia we could build if only we had 100 or 200 million more immigrants, romany, somalian, nigerian I think they would be the best kind because they are the best workers, engineers, scientists, doctors, designers etc..

[basel]

your powers of observation are letting you down. They were real Romanian (Romany) real criminals, just like the lovely, long-frocked, 18 carat smile, Gypsies you mentioned you'd met, and who're the subject of the thread. I reckon they hexed you with the 3 wise monkey curse.


Lol

[scooby doo]

Scoobi do wrote;


There's irony for you!

How did you unionists -immigrants come to ireland in the first place?

Through the British government wriping out the native population
so that you guys could settle here and pretend it is part of Britian?

So I wouldn't be too hard on other people coming to ireland to settle
down, would you?

Another one. Sure let them all go down to Dublin then, oh thats right load of people don't want them there either. Sure open you're house to them and youse can all live in a happy home where the children all have gummy drop smiles while youse all swim in rivers made of chocolate and everything is PC and perfect.

p.s. if you are going to quote me then quote the whole thing and not wee bits that suit the point you're making huh.

[breezinreezin]

they are a nomadic people who originate from india many many years ago.
they have their own language which is not romanian.
they have a lot to do with horses and caravans.
or should i say trailers

well that was a let down. I thought I was going to learn something I didn't know. Romania has the biggest population of Gypsies in Europe and that is where these Gypsies are from. All of the Gypsies that I met in Greece were from Romania. Others, who I lived and worked with in France, were, welll Gitanes from France.

They were an interesting crowd, they threatened to shoot a few of my fellow workers with a 12 bore, because they left the job after being treated poorly and not getting paid. I'd already walked out as I'd already read them like books and saw it coming. Not before I'd been fed their slops while they dined with the best wine and cuts of meat. I have to say those French Gitanes were the worst Gypsies I've ever met.

In Greece I met a good few who were a laugh, they do have a good sense of humour, but they were nearly all rogues with their own code of honour. That mostly meant they made their money by fair means or fowl. It was in Greece that I first saw the 'baby as bait' begging. Some of the children even had their hand bound up, to look like they'd lost their hand. I never gave them anything, and they had a bad rep with the hippies for the way they exploited their children. Many of us long-haired travellers had less than them.

Contrary to the Gypsies you met, the ones I've met don't view begging or taking from those that have more than them, as being wrong. The problem is they view most people as being better of than them materially and so most are fair game. Like my mother, who had her purse stolen by a pair. The culture clash with the west has been going on ever since Gypsies travelled up from the Indian sub-continent.

This thing in Northen Ireland is being ramped up to sound like something new, it's not new. In Italy a couple of years ago the Italians went on the rampage after Gypsies had apparently stolen a child. The MSM are highlighting divisions, because divisions there fucking well are. They helped create them. They've been waiting for an incident to contrast with the recent BNP wins. Because that divides opinion and creates a sort of cognitive/emotional,disonance. And division, mixed with ambivalence, is good.

The Romanian Gypsies are perfect for that, as most people will have an opinion on them, probably mostly negative. And they will be sat in front of their TV sets, thinking 'good riddance', but struggling with their attitude because the all knowing box has called the Northern Irish that drove the Gypsies out of their homes, racist. And to be called a racist today, is like being called a homosexual 30 years ago. It's the big taboo. Then a few hours later, on the same channel that showed these poor people being hounded out of their homes, they show them stealing our wallets and using their children as emotional levers, to get money from us. How very bloody odd, or is it?

[h2pogo]

No there isn't.

i will take your lack of response as confirmation that there is.
if any one else can think of an exeption to any rule i would like to hear it.

[scooby doo]

well that was a let down. I thought I was going to learn something I didn't know. Romania has the biggest population of Gypsies in Europe and that is where these Gypsies are from. All of the Gypsies that I met in Greece were from Romania. Others, who I lived and worked with in France, were, welll Gitanes from France.

They were an interesting crowd, they threatened to shoot a few of my fellow workers with a 12 bore, because they left the job after being treated poorly and not getting paid. I'd already walked out as I'd already read them like books and saw it coming. Not before I'd been fed their slops while they dined with the best wine and cuts of meat. I have to say those French Gitanes were the worst Gypsies I've ever met.

In Greece I met a good few who were a laugh, they do have a good sense of humour, but they were nearly all rogues with their own code of honour. That mostly meant they made their money by fair means or fowl. It was in Greece that I first saw the 'baby as bait' begging. Some of the children even had their hand bound up, to look like they'd lost their hand. I never gave them anything, and they had a bad rep with the hippies for the way they exploited their children. Many of us long-haired travellers had less than them.

Contrary to the Gypsies you met, the ones I've met don't view begging or taking from those that have more than them, as being wrong. The problem is they view most people as being better of than them materially and so most are fair game. Like my mother, who had her purse stolen by a pair. The culture clash with the west has been going on ever since Gypsies travelled up from the Indian sub-continent.

This thing in Northen Ireland is being ramped up to sound like something new, it's not new. In Italy a couple of years ago the Italians went on the rampage after Gypsies had apparently stolen a child. The MSM are highlighting divisions, because divisions there fucking well are. They helped create them. They've been waiting for an incident to contrast with the recent BNP wins. Because that divides opinion and creates a sort of cognitive/emotional,disonance. And division, mixed with ambivalence, is good.

The Romanian Gypsies are perfect for that, as most people will have an opinion on them, probably mostly negative. And they will be sat in front of their TV sets, thinking 'good riddance', but struggling with their attitude because the all knowing box has called the Northern Irish that drove the Gypsies out of their homes, racist. And to be called a racist today, is like being called a homosexual 30 years ago. It's the big taboo. Then a few hours later, on the same channel that showed these poor people being hounded out of their homes, they show them stealing our wallets and using their children as emotional levers, to get money from us. How very bloody odd, or is it?


Good post :)

[decim]

i will take your lack of response as confirmation that there is.
if any one else can think of an exeption to any rule i would like to hear it.

You stated there was an exception to "every" rule.

Now you ask not only myself but others to illustrate an example of rule exception?

Your contradictory cognition is stupefying.

[decim]

well that was a let down. I thought I was going to learn something I didn't know. Romania has the biggest population of Gypsies in Europe and that is where these Gypsies are from. All of the Gypsies that I met in Greece were from Romania. Others, who I lived and worked with in France, were, welll Gitanes from France.

They were an interesting crowd, they threatened to shoot a few of my fellow workers with a 12 bore, because they left the job after being treated poorly and not getting paid. I'd already walked out as I'd already read them like books and saw it coming. Not before I'd been fed their slops while they dined with the best wine and cuts of meat. I have to say those French Gitanes were the worst Gypsies I've ever met.

In Greece I met a good few who were a laugh, they do have a good sense of humour, but they were nearly all rogues with their own code of honour. That mostly meant they made their money by fair means or fowl. It was in Greece that I first saw the 'baby as bait' begging. Some of the children even had their hand bound up, to look like they'd lost their hand. I never gave them anything, and they had a bad rep with the hippies for the way they exploited their children. Many of us long-haired travellers had less than them.

Contrary to the Gypsies you met, the ones I've met don't view begging or taking from those that have more than them, as being wrong. The problem is they view most people as being better of than them materially and so most are fair game. Like my mother, who had her purse stolen by a pair. The culture clash with the west has been going on ever since Gypsies travelled up from the Indian sub-continent.

This thing in Northen Ireland is being ramped up to sound like something new, it's not new. In Italy a couple of years ago the Italians went on the rampage after Gypsies had apparently stolen a child. The MSM are highlighting divisions, because divisions there fucking well are. They helped create them. They've been waiting for an incident to contrast with the recent BNP wins. Because that divides opinion and creates a sort of cognitive/emotional,disonance. And division, mixed with ambivalence, is good.

The Romanian Gypsies are perfect for that, as most people will have an opinion on them, probably mostly negative. And they will be sat in front of their TV sets, thinking 'good riddance', but struggling with their attitude because the all knowing box has called the Northern Irish that drove the Gypsies out of their homes, racist. And to be called a racist today, is like being called a homosexual 30 years ago. It's the big taboo. Then a few hours later, on the same channel that showed these poor people being hounded out of their homes, they show them stealing our wallets and using their children as emotional levers, to get money from us. How very bloody odd, or is it?

Fine fettling of the issues at hand.

Insightful & eminent analysis of the psychobabble box rendering minds inoperable to logical thought.

Media Magi cast their curses upon the shores of so many shipwrecked minds, run ashore as ghost ships of yore.

[h2pogo]

well that was a let down. I thought I was going to learn something I didn't know. Romania has the biggest population of Gypsies in Europe and that is where these Gypsies are from. All of the Gypsies that I met in Greece were from Romania. Others, who I lived and worked with in France, were, welll Gitanes from France.

They were an interesting crowd, they threatened to shoot a few of my fellow workers with a 12 bore, because they left the job after being treated poorly and not getting paid. I'd already walked out as I'd already read them like books and saw it coming. Not before I'd been fed their slops while they dined with the best wine and cuts of meat. I have to say those French Gitanes were the worst Gypsies I've ever met.

In Greece I met a good few who were a laugh, they do have a good sense of humour, but they were nearly all rogues with their own code of honour. That mostly meant they made their money by fair means or fowl. It was in Greece that I first saw the 'baby as bait' begging. Some of the children even had their hand bound up, to look like they'd lost their hand. I never gave them anything, and they had a bad rep with the hippies for the way they exploited their children. Many of us long-haired travellers had less than them.

Contrary to the Gypsies you met, the ones I've met don't view begging or taking from those that have more than them, as being wrong. The problem is they view most people as being better of than them materially and so most are fair game. Like my mother, who had her purse stolen by a pair. The culture clash with the west has been going on ever since Gypsies travelled up from the Indian sub-continent.

This thing in Northen Ireland is being ramped up to sound like something new, it's not new. In Italy a couple of years ago the Italians went on the rampage after Gypsies had apparently stolen a child. The MSM are highlighting divisions, because divisions there fucking well are. They helped create them. They've been waiting for an incident to contrast with the recent BNP wins. Because that divides opinion and creates a sort of cognitive/emotional,disonance. And division, mixed with ambivalence, is good.

The Romanian Gypsies are perfect for that, as most people will have an opinion on them, probably mostly negative. And they will be sat in front of their TV sets, thinking 'good riddance', but struggling with their attitude because the all knowing box has called the Northern Irish that drove the Gypsies out of their homes, racist. And to be called a racist today, is like being called a homosexual 30 years ago. It's the big taboo. Then a few hours later, on the same channel that showed these poor people being hounded out of their homes, they show them stealing our wallets and using their children as emotional levers, to get money from us. How very bloody odd, or is it?

good points.
my point is you get good and bad from all walks of life every where without exeption.
dont get me wrong i have met some bad gypsies even had very life threatening experiences with some.
i have heard similar stories of yours in france and would be wary of working for them that is for sure.
even so i have worked with them sans problem
a french gitan may of saved my life from a jealouse french bloke once.i got to know some of his family and they were cool.
in spain i helped chase of an attempet mugger who had a large knife who was probarbly a gitano even though he had probarbly never lived life on the road and was sure to be just a smack head.
the only gypsies i have met in spain actually travelling were from portugal and became good freinds with one familly.
but i would not trust or have anything to do with all portugese gypsies.
i try to treat people with respect especially gypsies.
but i do find it hard to treat racists with respect even though some of my close freinds are racist:(
you are right though how the media picks out the bad apples to paint their picture,to promote hate.
an imigrant rapist will get in the news but ten phedophile preists will not.

[h2pogo]

You stated there was an exception to "every" rule.

Now you ask not only myself but others to illustrate an example of rule exception?

Your contradictory cognition is stupefying.

looks like i fucked that up:o ,it is late and i am tired but i think you know what i meant.

[decim]

looks like i fucked that up:o ,it is late and i am tired but i think you know what i meant.

I did yes.

[bard]

Folks, there is more to the Gypsies than meets the eye.

Movie to watch:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0097223/

Song to listen to:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPyBtvvYqX4&feature=related

[h2pogo]

I did yes.

so i must be right

[izzy]

Why not? After all they were part of the Great British Empire once and were (and still are) bleed dry by the same empire. Time to pay the bill, don't you think?

Oh and by the way I'm sick of racist people like yourself taking over these forums.

for those of you who dont know who a9's avatar is ..

she was a young reality star / celebrity... he has a picture of her as his avatar at the moment she was told she had cancer .. she was on big broother india at the time .. so that awful moment for her was filmed ..

whish is why she looks so upset in that shot .. the very shot that d9 is using as his avartar .. to poke fun at her misfortune and laugh at her illness.

she died a few months later at age 27 leaving behind two young children and a husband ..

RIP Jade ...

and d9 what you are doing here is luciferian..

[decim]

so i must be right

I was acknowledging your mistake.

[i_am]

OK people. This thread is on a fasttrack to the rant room unless we can discuss the topic without insults, off topic and personal stuff.

Carry on :p

[chocolateharpist]

I'd like to know how many of the thugs attacking the Romanians also claim benefits or are members of benefit claiming families.

[decim]

I'd like to know how many of the thugs attacking the Romanians also claim benefits or are members of benefit claiming families.

Come back & tell us what you find.

[basel]

Police have said they do not believe paramilitaries were involved in orchestrating the attacks, which led to around 20 families leaving their homes.

The attacks were condemned by Prime Minister Gordon Brown and local politicians.

It is understood accommodation in the south Belfast area is being made available for one week.

Police Supt Chris Noble said: "The information we have at this point in time is that it was a sporadic attack.

"It was a sporadic attack by a number of youths with no affiliation or co-ordination.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/another-romanian-family-attacked-14342706.html

[mikey mikey]

Looks like many on this board have dropped all pretense and come out as hard line racists. What a shame for people like Limelady that have had their forum aimed at peace, love, unity and wisdom overun by such messages as the ones you see on this thread.:(

I am cancelling my account here. Off to new places.

Peace be with those that wish peace.:)

[anthony65]

Romanians? or Romani?
Same mistake as calling all Jews, Zionists.

Romanians might well be "lovely, warmhearted, decent, honest people" as you suggest.
My experience and view of Romani, is somewhat different.

In Hungary, the Romani (gypsies) are often at the centre of organised crime and violent crime. Petty crime goes without saying. They breed like rabbits, with the average "children per female" rate being 10.

There is a very real fear that in as little as two generations, the Romani population will outnumber the local population.

They seldom contribute to a community; rather take - either in the way of crime or benefits.

Not racist nor prejudiced; its fact.

Agreed!

The media likes to refer to Romanians when it means Romani.

I mentioned this in other posts.

In this particular post I just wanted to clarify that not all "Romanians" are like the ones described in the media. For the reasons you give above!

[phildee3]

The question of this thread, as I understand it to be, is why are the Romanians being bullied? I suggested that maybe some unionists were trying to chase them out because they might tend towards voting Sinn Fein.
Why??
Because they are mostly Catholic. pd3


That kind of sums up your ignorance.



Please educate me then
(keeping in mind that I said Catholic - not Roman Catholic).

[phildee3]

Romanians???? ... or Romani????



Again, please educate me.
The media says they are Romanians.
I have no trust in the media to tell the truth but in this case they look like Romanians to me.
Am I wrong?

[seanx]

Decim wrote:
Hello sean, is some one being a naughty racist?
Tch Tch!

Of course we need Millions & Millions more immigrants in the UK & Ireland, North & South, just think of the kind of utopia we could build if only we had 100 or 200 million more immigrants, romany, somalian, nigerian I think they would be the best kind because they are the best workers, engineers, scientists, doctors, designers etc..

Sorry, mate I don't debate with BNP trolls on this forum.

[seanx]

mikey mikey wrote;
Looks like many on this board have dropped all pretense and come out as hard line racists. What a shame for people like Limelady that have had their forum aimed at peace, love, unity and wisdom overun by such messages as the ones you see on this thread.
I am cancelling my account here. Off to new places.

Peace be with those that wish peace

hOW TRUE.

The mentality of these guys is so ignorant, it is pitiful.

In their little world, no doubt all Irish are dunkards.

All Scotish are mean.

All black people are inferior.

And all Romanians are robbers and crooks!

Individuals don't exist anymore only general racial sterotypes.
In

[breezinreezin]

good points.
my point is you get good and bad from all walks of life every where without exeption.
dont get me wrong i have met some bad gypsies even had very life threatening experiences with some.
i have heard similar stories of yours in france and would be wary of working for them that is for sure.
even so i have worked with them sans problem
a french gitan may of saved my life from a jealouse french bloke once.i got to know some of his family and they were cool.
in spain i helped chase of an attempet mugger who had a large knife who was probarbly a gitano even though he had probarbly never lived life on the road and was sure to be just a smack head.
the only gypsies i have met in spain actually travelling were from portugal and became good freinds with one familly.
but i would not trust or have anything to do with all portugese gypsies.
i try to treat people with respect especially gypsies.
but i do find it hard to treat racists with respect even though some of my close freinds are racist:(
you are right though how the media picks out the bad apples to paint their picture,to promote hate.
an imigrant rapist will get in the news but ten phedophile preists will not.

I'm impressed. At least you're someone baseing their views on actual life experiences, that's good. It sounds like you don't differ too much from me in views about race in general. That's probably because you've travelled. What does surprise me is that you've then gone and fallen for this punitive racist thing.

As I tried to convey in my own experiences, Romanies tick most of the boxes of the current meaning of the word 'racist', but it would simply be lazy, ignorant and plain misleading to call them that. They have a strong cultural identity and strong cultural indentities are reinforced as much by being dismissive of and ridiculing those who're different from them, as they are from following their own strong, culturally bonding behaviours. They are who they in contrast to us. That is my experience of Gypsies. Now extrapolate that to any racial, ethnic, national or regional group who have, or aspire to have, a strong identity through their culture and traditions. Would those the Gypsies were placed amongst meet such a definition?

My take on those that chased out these Gypsies, is that they feel very threatened. That would fit Northern Ireland very well, as the two main warring factions have been fighting constantly,albeit with a recent truce, to assert themselves as the dominant tribe. They are simply trying to preserve their identity and flourish. This is how it is for human beings in general, or at least the ones that are not part of the grand experiment. And it's happening the world over. Every day groups are vying with each other in order to maintain their identity and territory. You've travelled a lot and must have heard anecdotes and had experience of this all the time. I certainly did.

The term, or meme, racist is one that gets used by those that have not experienced much life, or at least not thought much about what they do see. I've travelled the world and lived and worked in many different countries. I did this because as a lad I sort of felt like I didn't fit in and so had a longing to belong somewhere. I thought that I could travel and be adopted by a culture, but that's not how it works. However, I was very observant of how cultures, ethnic groups, tribes, call them what you will, operate. What I see is the human condition, not a deviant behaviour. It's often not pretty, but life has always been so. Preserving cultural identity sometimes requires a bit more than funny dances, weird, distinct costumes or marching bands.

It's almost too ridiculous for words when you really think it through. But then for some, the indoctrination process won't allow them to see the bigger picture. It's much easier to create and reniforce their own PC tribe by ridiculing and emphasising an imagined difference in others who they deem to be racists. People are quick to condemn, slow to try to understand.

What I see and have seen for years is the UK, and now Europe as a whole, is being used as a massive lab for a social engineering experiment. But I'm not going to go into that here.

[seanx]

Please educate me then
(keeping in mind that I said Catholic - not Roman Catholic).

phildee3 is absolutely right.

What is happening here is the age-old battle of Ulster unionism,
terrified of losing control over Northern Ireland - and keeping it
part of Britain.

That's why these people are being attacked and driven out of 'certain'
areas.

it'a why there was violence between Polish supporters and NI
supporters during world cup.

The polish people settling in the North are Catholic and who will they
support in coming elections????

[anthony65]

mikey mikey wrote;


hOW TRUE.

The mentality of these guys is so ignorant, it is pitiful.

In their little world, no doubt all Irish are dunkards.

All Scotish are mean.

All black people are inferior.

And all Romanians are robbers and crooks!

Individuals don't exist anymore only general racial sterotypes.
In


There are sterotypes and there are uncomfortable truths.

In the case of the romany / gyspsy communities in Europe, I'd say that there is a lot more ugly truth than stereotyping.

I've seen some of these ugly things myself and many others have seen the same (and worse).

It is not a racial stereotype to say that you've seen the women begging with drugged up children at their breasts while the blokes wait round the corner to collect the money.

Or to say that you've seen organized begging where the beggars sit around looking pitiful then get up and meet together to share out the cash (and of course, they often push out other beggars who have a more genuine need of charity).

It is not a racial stereotype to comment on the kids who are sent off to thieve and pickpocket. I've seen them in action.

Or the young girls who are prostituted...

And there are worse stories that I've only heard of but haven't witnessed, including violence, intimidation, murder etc.

The romany / gypsy issue is a big problem and I don't have a solution, but to dismiss people who address the issue as racist is simplistic and arrogant.

I remember the finger pointing of the do-gooders in the UK when the gypsies were shown in central and eastern europe. Now they are learning what it means to live side by side with these people.

Of course, not all gyspies live like this, and many could live better lives if they were protected from the initimidation of their own communities, but how do you get them out of there?

It's a tough debate. An ugly debate. But very real for all those involved.

We do agree that babies, children and women should not be exploited by their families? Regardless of race, ethnic group etc.

[anthony65]

phildee3 is absolutely right.

What is happening here is the age-old battle of Ulster unionism,
terrified of losing control over Northern Ireland - and keeping it
part of Britain.

That's why these people are being attacked and driven out of 'certain'
areas.

it'a why there was violence between Polish supporters and NI
supporters during world cup.

The polish people settling in the North are Catholic and who will they
support in coming elections????

There's a different issue, but interesting in the context of Northern Ireland and the political / religious divide....

[seanx]

breezinreezin wrote;

My take on those that chased out these Gypsies, is that they feel very threatened. That would fit Northern Ireland very well, as the two main warring factions have been fighting constantly,albeit with a recent truce, to assert themselves as the dominant tribe. They are simply trying to preserve their identity and flourish. This is how it is for human beings in general, or at least the ones that are not part of the grand experiment. And it's happening the world over. Every day groups are vying with each other in order to maintain their identity and territory. You've travelled a lot and must have heard anecdotes and had experience of this all the time. I certainly did.

You guys are totally struck on this racial identity thing.

There is more to life than this temporary racial identity.

teardropexplodes wrote this great piece in another thread.


Icke says these divisions are illusions. Cultures are software which our minds run. They're illusions. Physocal appearance is governed by the software of our genes.

It's time we transcended them and learnt what we really are.

Eternal consciousness.

The hiding of this from us, according to david icke, this the ultimate
conspiracy. Ihe illuminati understands all of this.

[seanx]

There's a different issue, but interesting in the context of Northern Ireland and the political / religious divide....

I lived in the North as a kid.

So I can tell you without a doubt that if you are looking for the
real motivation behind these attacks you'll find it there.

[anthony65]

I lived in the North as a kid.

So I can tell you without a doubt that if you are looking for the
real motivation behind these attacks you'll find it there.

Would you distinguish between the "Romanian/Romany" issue and Polish issue?

I would. I'd say that the Polish issue fits perfectly into the ongoing religious strife, while the Romanian / Romany issue is very much a local thing involving people who are perhaps pissed off at increasing crime in their area.

** I stress Romanian / Romany because I've been pulled up twice already for posts where I didn't!

This is one of those issues where you get slammed from all sides... :(

I'm trying to see it fairly and truthfully from the perspective of all those involved: while being aware of course of the potential for abuse by those with an agenda...

I wouldn't care whether louts / criminals are from any background, I wouldn't want to live near them...

And if you live somewhere and these people are moved in, then it is a real bummer...

I know we haven't had confirmation that this was the case here, but I'm sure there is more background material available that would show the event leading up the recent events...

[i_am]

Hmmm!! Can we please just cool it. I think this thread is valid and although I said it was heading for the rant room, it does not need to be that way.

Discuss, disagree but leave out the insults and I will restore it for now

Lets show some of that love and peace :)

[phildee3]

There's a different issue,



No. What seanx and I are discussing is what the OP asked - why are the Romanians being bullied in Belfast?
What you are discussing is a different issue.

[seanx]

Would you distinguish between the "Romanian/Romany" issue and Polish issue?

I would. I'd say that the Polish issue fits perfectly into the ongoing religious strife, while the Romanian / Romany issue is very much a local thing involving people who are perhaps pissed off at increasing crime in their area.

** I stress Romanian / Romany because I've been pulled up twice already for posts where I didn't!

This is one of those issues where you get slammed from all sides...

I'm trying to see it fairly and truthfully from the perspective of all those involved: while being aware of course of the potential for abuse by those with an agenda...

I wouldn't care whether louts / criminals are from any background, I wouldn't want to live near them...

And if you live somewhere and these people are moved in, then it is a real bummer...

I know we haven't had confirmation that this was the case here, but I'm sure there is more background material available that would show the event leading up the recent events...

Belfast is owned street by street.

It is either Catholic or Protestant.

The survial of northern Ireland depends on a number count.


it was created in the 1920's by the British Governemnt on a head
count, making sure Portestants had a majority.

Their numbers are now fading ....so numbers and where these numbers
live in various parts of the North are vital.

Thus 'strangers', 'outsiders' whose allegiance cannot be established
or controlled are always the subject of abuse and violence, by BOTH
sides in certain parts of the North.

Go beyond the surface .....and you'll find the real motivation.

last year, it was Chinese families who were being attacked who
lived in these loyalist areas.

[anthony65]

No. What seanx and I are discussing is what the OP asked - why are the Romanians being bullied in Belfast?
What you are discussing is a different issue.

No. I was also discussing the Romanian issue, but Sean mentioned the Polish catholic thing which is a different issue as I've explained (in my opinion).

Polish catholic = religious issue

Romanian = Local community issue

I reserve the right to be wrong, but that's the way it appears to me.

[h2pogo]

I was acknowledging your mistake.

easier to to do that than provide an example.
i really dont mind if i am proven wrong.

[phildee3]

No. I was also discussing the Romanian issue, but Sean mentioned the Polish catholic thing which is a different issue as I've explained (in my opinion).

Polish catholic = religious issue

Romanian = Local community issue

I reserve the right to be wrong, but that's the way it appears to me.



That's the way it appears because that's the way the media are portraying it.
What seanx and I are saying is that, in NI, there is no difference between a "religious issue" and a "local community issue."

[anthony65]

That's the way it appears because that's the way the media are portraying it.
What seanx and I are saying is that, in NI, there is no difference between a "religious issue" and a "local community issue."

And I accept your opinions.

I'm simply saying that even in Northern Ireland there are exceptions to the rule.

I'm open to either explanation, but I don't see the religious issue here, it seems much territorial, local...

I'll bow out on this, but maybe someone could find some additional information regarding the background to this incident.

[scooby doo]

phildee3 is absolutely right.

What is happening here is the age-old battle of Ulster unionism,
terrified of losing control over Northern Ireland - and keeping it
part of Britain.

That's why these people are being attacked and driven out of 'certain'
areas.

it'a why there was violence between Polish supporters and NI
supporters during world cup.

The polish people settling in the North are Catholic and who will they
support in coming elections????

Really lol oh how you do tell tall tales. In the case of the Poles during the world cup match the Poles brought over 3000 fans to the match which a number of them were hooligans who started trouble in Belfast (silly boys really) and got a booting and rightly so for starting trouble in the first place. If any one wants to know about Polish hooligans go to youtube and type it in plenty of vids there to prove this point. They have one of the worst names in mainland Europe when it comes to this. In contrast Northern Ireland fans have been voted 'the best fans in Europe' for the last 2 years by FIFA for behaviour of the fans at home and away matches. Go check that out to. So what would that tell you about the trouble on that day???? Northern Ireland for all it's problems has never had a football hooligan problem following the national team same as Rep of Ireland,Scotland and Wales for that matter.

Now there were arsehole from Northrn Ireland days after that match who targted some Poles who live in Belfast but that quickly died down and I would say that the vaste marjorty of these people had nothing to do with NI football. Most people over here tolerate the Poles because they are for the most part hard working people the only gripe being that they send most of their money home to Poland and not keep it in Northern Ireland but that would be about it. To compare the Poles to Romi or Romanian gypsies and beggers is a nonsense. But you have been coming from the view it is because they are catholic and this is why and nothing more. Lies mate simple as. Plenty of Poles etc still living in parts of Belfast which are protestant and many a town outside of Belfast.

[elysiumfire]

These attacks upon the property of Romanians in Belfast are definitely racially motivated...in that they are attacks upon a single racial-type; whereas the fighting between the Irish themselves was/is politico-religio motivated sectarianism.

I would say that the first attack which occurred (as reported) on 11th June, arose out of an escalating festering, sparked by some incident, some argument between both antagonists. What caused the first assault upon that particular family? Are we to believe that Irish youths woke up one morning and suddenly decided that they were going to band together and throw bricks through the windows of a Romanian family? The following day saw more attacks upon other Romanians, and thus it is this singling out of one racial-type that makes these attacks racist.

On the 15th June, a small rally is held by local Irish people in support of the Romanians, and that too is attacked. This is not a return to sectarian violence, but a continuation of racial hatred. The rally is attacked because of its sympathies for the Romanians.

On the 16th June, Romanian families gather outside one house, and are then taken to a church hall for the night. The following day they are moved to a leisure centre.

These punitive attacks upon the Romanians are the first statements of ethnic-cleansing, and not by any means should they be allowed to succeed. Nevertheless, the attacks highlight a racial fault line along which Irish society may oft' tremble and shake if not looked at and addressed. Equally, such racial fault lines abound in all countries and their societies, so it is not something unique to the Irish. Multiculturalism has both pros and cons to it, but of course, one of the more disturbing cons are the racial fault lines it first produces, until (unless) time is supported to allow its settling. Multicutural adhesion is always a weak glue at first. Cohesion between the disparate cultures is not easily gained, integration is often not the first issue that is accepted by either/any of the different cultures.

I can fully understand the reasons why peoples from other countries seek a better life in more stable, and more economically successful parts of the world, and I believe that they should be given the chance and opportunity to make that better life. Yet, I too, worry about the massive influx of immigrants and the way their presence can undermine local economies. They are in fact, an employer's dream reservoir of cheaper labour. Business requires there to be a steady reserve of unemployed people from which they can draw for their menial labour tasks; and of course, the more educated the unemployed, the higher the cost of employing them. Racial divisions tend to only flare up within the layers of the strata of the less-well-off, for it is within that strata that the daily round of fighting for the crumbs thrown by the employers are more often fought over.

For the Romanians (or any other culture) settling in Ireland, it really is no different than when the Irish left Ireland for the shores of America...the reasons are quite similar. Of course the times are different, and the manipulations of the 'cons' supply support to nefarious agendas of various nefarious parties (gangs). Racial flare ups are nothing more than digressions from the real political and economical issues that cause them, and I fear we are going to see more and more 'flare ups', not just in Ireland, but in other countries, especially so, if the EU Lisbon Treaty succeeds in being fully implemented. At least the Irish are having a say on the issue. The rest of Britain isn't getting one! How the Irish decide at the next referendum election is going to determine the future for the rest of Britain, and that is the awful truth! The Irish culture is going to determine the future of the rest of Britain's cultures...how the hell did we get to that point?

One thing is for certain, when the whole of Britain loses it self-sovereignty to Brussels because the Irish voted 'yes' to the treaty, it won't be the Romanian's fault, nor will it be the fault of the Irish...it'll be the fault of apathy and indifference in the people of Britain. What kind of 'flare ups' will we see then? Whose troops will they be marching in to quell them?

The thugs throwing bricks through the windows of the Romanians need to step back and try to view the wider, bigger picture, and see just exactly what is coming down upon them from the Euro juggenhaut.

[scooby doo]

Belfast is owned street by street.

It is either Catholic or Protestant.

The survial of northern Ireland depends on a number count.


it was created in the 1920's by the British Governemnt on a head
count, making sure Portestants had a majority.

Their numbers are now fading ....so numbers and where these numbers
live in various parts of the North are vital.

Thus 'strangers', 'outsiders' whose allegiance cannot be established
or controlled are always the subject of abuse and violence, by BOTH
sides in certain parts of the North.

Go beyond the surface .....and you'll find the real motivation.

last year, it was Chinese families who were being attacked who
lived in these loyalist areas.

The Chinese that were attacked as you say were a prostitute running gang which was Chinese had link to the traids and were clearly stepping on someones toes that is why that happened. Go google 'Chinese prostitue gangs in belfast' it should be there. Funny enough there was a cop involved in helping run that scam to. Point being you are on here trying to make it look like ALL protestants are racist etc with is not true. Yes there are some in that protestants who are that way, same as I'm sure there are people that way in the catholic areas. You have failed to mention the fact that few days ago Irish travellers were burnt out in a catholic area in west Belfast. Personally I would believe that this is because like in the chinese case last year they were stepping on someones toes.

These are facts so to put all of it down to 'all unionst people are racist and don't want johnny foreigner their because they will vote Sien Finn' is just silly. The Chinese are by far the largest immigrate group in Northern Ireland and have hardly ever had any problems unless like I say they step on somes ones toes. All paramilitary groups on both sides of the sectarian divide are balls deep into gangsterism. Just stating a few wee facts here Sean. But then sure you only live in the North when you were a kid, maybe you've forgotten how it really is now and just relie on hollywood movies to base you're findings by huh ;)

[breezinreezin]

For the Romanians (or any other culture) settling in Ireland, it really is no different than when the Irish left Ireland for the shores of America...the reasons are quite similar.

There is a difference though, as well as some similarities.

The America that the Irish immigrated to was a conquered land and the vanquished had no say in the matter. If they had I feel pretty sure, by then, they'd have said we really don't want you white skinned people living amongst us. Likewise, the Irish, without getting into sectarian politics, are about as indigenous a people as you can get amongst those living on these two Islands. They, too, are vanquished to a great degree, but by different means.

The demos are not deciding their own fate here and political interference in Ireland has never been for the good of the Irish, nor the great majority of the English either. If you had a referendum on mass immigration, the outcome would be assurred. As I've said elsewhere, this is social engineering.

[seanx]

scooby doo wrote;

The Chinese that were attacked as you say were a prostitute running gang which was Chinese had link to the traids and were clearly stepping on someones toes that is why that happened. Go google 'Chinese prostitue gangs in belfast' it should be there. Funny enough there was a cop involved in helping run that scam to. Point being you are on here trying to make it look like ALL protestants are racist etc with is not true. Yes there are some in that protestants who are that way, same as I'm sure there are people that way in the catholic areas. You have failed to mention the fact that few days ago Irish travellers were burnt out in a catholic area in west Belfast. Personally I would believe that this is because like in the chinese case last year they were stepping on someones toes.

These are facts so to put all of it down to 'all unionst people are racist and don't want johnny foreigner their because they will vote Sien Finn' is just silly. The Chinese are by far the largest immigrate group in Northern Ireland and have hardly ever had any problems unless like I say they step on somes ones toes. All paramilitary groups on both sides of the sectarian divide are balls deep into gangsterism. Just stating a few wee facts here Sean. But then sure you only live in the North when you were a kid, maybe you've forgotten how it really is now and just relie on hollywood movies to base you're findings by huh

Disney-land stuff, mate!

In belfast, the hatred is still there, just below the surface.

And you know the loyalist gangs AND the Republican gangs still control
everything on these streets.

And if you are not 'one of them', you will soon be forced to leave.

As for these Chinese and Romanians, their 'allegiance' cannot
be established or controlled so they are subject to abuse and
violence, by BOTH sides in certain parts of the North.

It's all about control, mate. Each side maintaining control
over what they regard as their 'land'.

[seanx]

elysiumfire wrote:
At least the Irish are having a say on the issue. The rest of Britain isn't getting one! How the Irish decide at the next referendum election is going to determine the future for the rest of Britain, and that is the awful truth! The Irish culture is going to determine the future of the rest of Britain's cultures...how the hell did we get to that point?

Just to stop confusion Ireland is not part of Britain.

Northern ireland is part of the UK.

The referendum will be in the Republic of Iireland which is an
independent state with its own constitution.

It is because it has its own written constitution that a referendum
by law has to be held, even though the politicans now want to
change that law too

How convenient.

Anyway, after Lisburn treaty is passed, the Irish consitituion will be worthless anyway.

[elysiumfire]

Breezinreezin:There is a difference though, as well as some similarities.

Disagree. I further disagree with your continued analysis, because I was talking about reasons 'why' they emigrated (not immigrated) to America; it seems you missed the whole context and meaning of my post, even though I spelled it out quite explicitly (ie, to seek a better life than the one they were living in their own native country).

Immigrants everywhere tend to end up being exploited by the host country, and also racially abused to one degree or another, yet one's own alleged 'indigeniety' is both a illogical and irrationale argument to put forward as a case in point in which to attack the immigrant, especially so when one's own origin is not indigenous to the land in which one lives...the Irish origin arrives from the European continent equally as much as the rest of the so-called natives of Britain.

http://keatstelescope.blogspot.com/2005/04/where-did-irish-celts-come-from.html

[walsingham]

The news coverage on this has been completely over the top, you will not find a single press release which isn't describing this as a 'racist attack'. The very thought that a Red Hand Salute is a Nazi Salute is mere laughable. Combat 18, that British Intelligentry creation are apparently behind it and even more funnier is that these Belfast teenagers would have the wit to post through doors 'Nazi Leaflets'. It is a pure example of state controlled media in the aftermath of the British National Party winning seats in the European Council of Soviet States.

As another person posted, The real reason why they don't want huge family groups moving into Loyalist Areas is down to the fact that they feel and rightly so that they are becoming a minority in their own country. Whether or not you agree it's their 'country' in the first place is another matter, to my mind it is their rightful country, with the majority of them being Ulster-Scots, A tribe of people who began their heritage in Ireland before moving into the west of Scotland over one thousand years ago.

It is a matter of Numbers at the end of the day, In twenty years time at the rate of immigration into Ulster, The Unionist community might and will doubt lose their majority and therefore under the Belfast Agreement under a free and open vote became apart of the Republic of Ireland, That Roman Catholic infected backwater.

[dangermouse]

The news coverage on this has been completely over the top, you will not find a single press release which isn't describing this as a 'racist attack'. The very thought that a Red Hand Salute is a Nazi Salute is mere laughable. Combat 18, that British Intelligentry creation are apparently behind it and even more funnier is that these Belfast teenagers would have the wit to post through doors 'Nazi Leaflets'. It is a pure example of state controlled media in the aftermath of the British National Party winning seats in the European Council of Soviet States.

As another person posted, The real reason why they don't want huge family groups moving into Loyalist Areas is down to the fact that they feel and rightly so that they are becoming a minority in their own country. Whether or not you agree it's their 'country' in the first place is another matter, to my mind it is their rightful country, with the majority of them being Ulster-Scots, A tribe of people who began their heritage in Ireland before moving into the west of Scotland over one thousand years ago.

It is a matter of Numbers at the end of the day, In twenty years time at the rate of immigration into Ulster, The Unionist community might and will doubt lose their majority and therefore under the Belfast Agreement under a free and open vote became apart of the Republic of Ireland, That Roman Catholic infected backwater.
oi

[teardropexplodes]

the most interesting thing about this thread is noting which commenters refuse to see the cointelpro at work behind this story and choose to see it in the black and white terms reported by the corporate zionist media.
it's all getting a little predictable ;)
as soon as you hear the codeword "combat18" you know it has the stinking fingers of MI5 written all over it.

[stfd]

:D Nice try, Im Romanian. Try not to confuse ROMANIANS with Romanian gypsies, which are 99% of them scumbags. And theres no connection between them and Vlad The Impaler. Dracula was the fucked up countess Elizabeth Bathory. Stoker messed it all the way up.

Yup ... i am also Romanian...

And umm yea Mr. Stoker there messed it up big time but thats beside the point.

You see guys , is pretty simple ... all the people who left their mother country (including myself) have done so for a variety of reasons/purposes and it all happened in a varity of circumstances.

Oh well ...

[entrangermercenary]

the most interesting thing about this thread is noting which commenters refuse to see the cointelpro at work behind this story and choose to see it in the black and white terms reported by the corporate zionist media.
it's all getting a little predictable ;)
as soon as you hear the codeword "combat18" you know it has the stinking fingers of MI5 written all over it.


SO you seem to know a lot about c18 =mi5 then. Any links putting them together ?? Codeword c18 ??

[seanx]

walsingham wrote:
Whether or not you agree it's their 'country' in the first place is another matter, to my mind it is their rightful country, with the majority of them being Ulster-Scots, A tribe of people who began their heritage in Ireland before moving into the west of Scotland over one thousand years ago.

So if the majority of Irish people who live in north london, say carve
a little border around that area and claim it is now part of the Republic,
you'll have no problem with that!

Also, you seem to have conveniently forgotten all the native Irish
population who were living there before these 'settlements' came and
were simply butchered and killed off by your English masters.

But let's not let simple facts get in the way!

It is a matter of Numbers at the end of the day, In twenty years time at the rate of immigration into Ulster, The Unionist community might and will doubt lose their majority and therefore under the Belfast Agreement under a free and open vote became apart of the Republic of Ireland, That Roman Catholic infected backwater.

Only if it is their choice.

The majority of people in the Republic would not want a
united country unless the million or so protestants would agree
to it, even if they were the minority then in NI.

Unless there was MASS agreement and support all around,
should a united country would not work.

Republic of Ireland, That Roman Catholic infected backwater

Like all biogots, you are 2o years behind the times!

Even most unionists in the North would agree that the Republic is now
a modern progressive state, that has changed radically in the past two decades.

[teardropexplodes]

SO you seem to know a lot about c18 =mi5 then. Any links putting them together ?? Codeword c18 ??

oooo.. touched a raw nerve have we?

[entrangermercenary]

oooo.. touched a raw nerve have we?

lol YOU made a statement just want to c what links/facts you have for the statement that C18 = MI5 :)

[breezinreezin]

Breezinreezin:

Disagree. I further disagree with your continued analysis, because I was talking about reasons 'why' they emigrated (not immigrated) to America; it seems you missed the whole context and meaning of my post, even though I spelled it out quite explicitly (ie, to seek a better life than the one they were living in their own native country).

Pedantry aside (I think you meant irrational, not irrationale. If you're going to be a pedant, you need to be bloody confident of your own fastidiousness), I acknowledged your reasoning by saying there were similarities, but highlighted a (one) difference. So I don't know how you decided that I'd missed the whole context and meaning of your post. I agreed with a lot of what you wrote and disagreed with a fair bit as well, though I only addressed the one point, to further refine my own arguments posted earlier in the thread. So I don’t really understand your prickly defensiveness.

Immigrants everywhere tend to end up being exploited by the host country, and also racially abused to one degree or another, yet one's own alleged 'indigeniety' is both a illogical and irrationale argument to put forward as a case in point in which to attack the immigrant, especially so when one's own origin is not indigenous to the land in which one lives...the Irish origin arrives from the European continent equally as much as the rest of the so-called natives of Britain.
Given your reasoning, there are two issues here:
(1)The irrationality of attacking another racial group because nobody has the right to lay claim to a homeland.
(2)What constitutes indigeneity?

(1)Dealing with clause two of the first issue, I’d say it’s perfectly reasonable (predicated on issue (2) being resolved) to lay claim to a homeland, though others may dispute your claim. It then follows that, driven by self-interest and claim of said territory, you can reasonably, inasmuch as any group can, expel those you consider to be a threat. The morality of such a move is another, complex argument. I’ve already made clear my theories regarding territoriality and tribalism in other posts.

(2) The concept of indigineity is still disputed and subject to sophistry of all kinds in order to justify social engineering, in my view. By your reasoning, the only indigenous people would be Africans, as, according to theorists, we are all migrants out of Africa. A more reasonable definition would be that of first occupancy. The Maoris cannot claim to be from New Zealand, since that migrated from the Pacific Islands, but they are considered the indigenous people of New Zealand as they took occupancy first. Neither can the many Indian tribes of the Americas, given your definition, lay claim to any territory, since they are Asiatic migrants who crossed the bearing straights. But who can argue that the Shuar tribe of the Amazon basin, for example, are not indigenous to the Amazon. Likewise, regardless of the tribal homeland of the Irish Celts, they took occupancy of Ireland and have every right to claim it as their homeland. They have their own distinct culture and traditions that they have every right to defend and perpetuate, as does any culture.

The thrust of my argument throughout this thread is not specifically about the Romanian incident, as I made clear elsewhere--the political manipulation that Ireland has been subject to is not one I want to address--but the wider issue of immigration being used as a political tool to destabilise populations, and the rights of indigenous groups to preserve their own culture and have a democratic voice in how their homeland is governed. If people feel their rights are not being upheld, they will naturally take the law into their own hands. When decisions are made that run contrary to the wishes of the populace, over time trouble will ensue. That's the whole point of democracy, if the people feel their voice counts, they are less likely to cause unrest.

[elysiumfire]

SeanX:Just to stop confusion Ireland is not part of Britain. Northern ireland is part of the UK.

I fully understand what you're getting at, but it all depends upon one's point of view...that is if one's perception is perceiving things politically or geographically. When I look at Ireland on a map, I don't see a 'split' Ireland, I don't see a massive fault line under a channel of the Irish sea spliting the land mass of Ireland. When viewed from space, Ireland (the whole of it) is part of the British Isles...geographically, Ireland is indeed part of Britain. On a personal note, I believe fully that Ireland should be whole, not simply geographically, but politically, too! I also believe Scotland and Wales should have their own autonmy, free from English influence, but all respecting of each other. Until we have such, we will never be a truly United Kingdom.

The referendum will be in the Republic of Iireland which is an
independent state with its own constitution.

Indeed so, and a 'yes' vote to the Treaty (which is looking ever more likely) will be the death knell of Britain as a whole.

[basel]

if you want to really know whats happening right now, then listen to John dalys show on bbc ulster yesterday morning, he has loads of people phoning in explaining the problem, i'll search for the link when i get back home but it will be archived on the bbc's site, basicly there was alot of stealing going on in the area