EU pushing to sow up Lisbon Treaty this week

[jesuitsdidit]

Some states eg UK, fear this could reopen the domestic debate on the Lisbon Treaty. They are instead pushing for a legal declaration from EU leaders at a European Council later this week (18-19 June).

http://euobserver.com/9/28308


Uncertainty over legal format of Irish Lisbon guarantees

ANDREW WILLIS

Today @ 06:33 CET

EUOBSERVER / BRUSSELS – EU foreign ministers discussed the legal guarantees being sought by the Irish government on the Lisbon Treaty on Monday (15 June) but disagreement remains over how they will be presented.

The Irish government is keen that the legal guarantees in the areas of taxation, neutrality and social affairs be attached as protocols to the next available treaty – possible Croatia's accession treaty – and then ratified by all member states, enshrining the guarantees into European law.

However some member states – such as the UK – fear this could reopen the domestic debate on the Lisbon Treaty. They are instead pushing for a legal declaration from EU leaders at a European Council later this week (18-19 June).

Czech European Affairs Minister Stefan Fule confirmed on Monday that a number of details related to the guarantees – including their "legal form" – needed further discussion.

Member state ambassadors to the EU will attempt to iron out as many of the remaining issues as possible when they meet on Tuesday, in order to: "ensure a smooth passage for the required guarantees during the European council," said Mr Fule.

"Very good progress has been made and we are well on track to reach agreement at this week's European Council," he said. "Reaching consensus this week is important not only for Ireland but for the whole of Europe."

Speaking to journalists after the meeting, Irish Foreign Minister Micheal Martin said the response to the draft texts "has been very positive so far" and that he was "quietly confident" that Ireland would secure the legally binding guarantees it was seeking.

Different concerns

The Irish government is keen to come away from this week's meeting of EU leaders with enough to convince Irish voters to back the treaty in a second referendum likely to take place in September or October.

A majority of Irish voters rejected the Lisbon Treaty in a referendum last June while all other member states ratified the document via national parliaments.

However recent polls in the country suggest public opinion is now in favour of the treaty, with the change of heart largely attributed to the financial crisis and subsequent recession that have hit the small, open economy particularly badly.

Other member state governments insist the wording of the Irish guarantees must not create unwanted complications in their own constituencies.

"The red line will be not to open the ratification of the Lisbon treaty and not to go beyond what was agreed at the December European summit," said Mr Fule on Monday.

An EU official close to negotiations said bilateral discussions in recent weeks had helped ease a lot of member state concerns related to the guarantees, and that these tended to vary from country to country.

"The text of the legal guarantee on neutrality and defence issues has been of particular interest to other neutral member states. The text on the declaration of workers rights has been of interest to a lot of member states as well," the official said.

Ireland is also issuing a non-binding declaration on workers' rights.

The legal guarantees on neutrality and social affairs are intended to be Irish specific, addressing concerns over abortion and a threat to Ireland's traditional position of neutrality amongst other issues.

"The Treaty of Lisbon does not provide for the creation of a European army or for conscription to any military formation," says a draft copy of the guarantees.

"It does not affect the right of Ireland or any other member state to determine the nature and volume of its defence and security expenditure and the nature of its defence capabilities."

The guarantee on taxation relates to all member states. "Nothing in the Treaty of Lisbon makes any change of any kind for any Member State, to the extent or operation of the competence of the European Union in relation to taxation," says the draft.

[jesuitsdidit]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/5515400/Lisbon-Treaty-may-have-to-be-approved-for-second-time.html


Lisbon Treaty may have to be approved for second time
Britain may have to approve the Lisbon Treaty for a second time if the EU grants Ireland substantial concessions in an attempt to persuade its voters to back it in a referendum later this year.


By Bruno Waterfield in Brussels
Published: 6:30PM BST 12 Jun 2009

picA demonstrator calls for a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty: Despite pressure on the government treaty ratification has been completed Photo: AFP / GETTY

A new Commons vote could prove explosive and would be seized on by the Tories and UKIP who made big gains in the recent European elections on the back of their opposition to the agreement.

Last year, Irish voters rejected the treaty which will increase the power in Brussels power and create a new EU president and euro diplomatic service.

They will vote on the document again this autumn and the EU is working on a number of opt-outs to offer as sweeteners in an attempt to get it through this time.

The Irish government is seeking legally binding “protocols” to the treaty to show voters it has won substantial changes since the rejection last June.

But legally-binding opt-outs would have to be ratified by a separate parliamentary vote in Britain, either straight away or when Croatia joins the EU next year.

In both scenarios, British ministers are concerned that concessions given to the Irish because of a referendum rejection might reignite demands for Britain to get a better deal.

EU officials and diplomats are now said to be tying themselves in knots in an attempt to deliver a “safe package” that will not require another Commons vote.

The British concerns forced the cancellation of a key meeting of EU ambassadors on Thursday and frantic rewriting of legal texts.

New documents setting out Irish Lisbon Treaty guarantees on abortion, the right to life, education and the family with a separate declaration on workers’ rights have been delayed until next Tuesday, just two days before the Prime Minister meets with other EU leaders at a Brussels summit.

“We must avoid a situation where guarantees to Ireland use language or words that could open up the Treaty in the House of Commons,” said a senior British source.

“If Ireland which held a referendum gets a better deal than Britain it makes Gordon Brown look pretty stupid after he went the distance to avoid a referendum,” said an EU official.

Micheal Martin, the Irish foreign minister, has admitted that countries, such as Britain, face their own “domestic issues” over the legal guarantees.

“We have to be careful that in getting what we want we do not upset procedures for others,” he said.

Britain is not alone in fearing that taking a protocol through national parliaments could unravel the fragile compromises surrounding the Lisbon Treaty, drawn up to replace the EU Constitution rejected by French and Dutch voters in 2005.

The Dutch and Poles, who like Britain forced some limited declarations to dilute the Lisbon Treaty’s bill of EU rights and to protect scrutiny by national parliaments, also fear opening old political wounds.

Britain loses 40 national vetoes under the Lisbon Treaty which also creates a new EU president and euro diplomatic service under the control of a “European foreign minister”.

Margot Wallstrom, the European Commission vice-president, said: “We have to achieve two things – give the Irish the guarantees and the texts that they need and at the same time not reopen the treaty for re-ratification in other member states.”


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[jesuitsdidit]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/conservative/5540627/Ken-Clarke-Conservatives-will-not-reopen-debate-on-Lisbon-Treaty.html


Ken Clarke: Conservatives will not reopen debate on Lisbon Treaty
The Conservatives will not reopen the debate or hold a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty if Ireland ratifies it later this year, shadow business secretary Ken Clarke has said.


By Andrew Porter, Political Editor
Published: 12:24PM BST 15 Jun 2009

picShadow Business Secretary has said that the Conservatives will not reopen the debate on Lisbon Treaty Photo: IAN JONES

The surprising admission from Mr Clarke, the most pro-European Union member of David Cameron’s shadow cabinet, is the clearest signal yet that, despite the party hierarchy having tried to leave open the possibility of a retrospective referendum when the Tories got into power, voters would not be given a say on the controversial treaty which is, in effect, an EU constitution.

Both Mr Cameron and William Hague, the shadow foreign secretary, have said they will “not let matters rest” even if the Irish vote “yes” at the second time of asking this autumn. Voters in Ireland are expected to accept the treaty, despite rejecting it the first time around last year.

Labour promised a referendum on the constitution, but never delivered a vote.

The Tories, however, fought the recent European elections insisting they were not finished with the treaty. But Mr Clarke told BBC’s Politics Show on Sunday: “If the Irish referendum endorses the treaty and ratification comes into effect, then our settled policy is quite clear that the treaty will not be reopened.

“But it has also been said by David Cameron – and he means it – that it will not rest there and he will want to start discussing the division of competences between member states and the European Union,” Mr Clarke added.

He went on to describe how the Tories would instead simply look at some of the employment legislation issues that stem from Europe.

Mr Cameron brought Mr Clarke, who held a number of top Cabinet positions in the previous Tory administration, back into his shadow team last January to bolster its experience.

But his comments will infuriate many on his own side, including those who gave warning that his well-documented admiration for the EU would come back to haunt the Tory leader.

Bill Cash, the Eurosceptic backbench Tory MP, demanded to know if Mr Clarke’s comments were sanctioned by the party leadership.

He said it was essential that Britain held a referendum on Lisbon, irrespective of the Irish vote. He added: “It appears that Kenneth Clarke has reinvented unilaterally Conservative Party policy on the whole of the Lisbon Treaty and European policy.”

As polls in Ireland indicate that the treaty will be approved, Mr Clarke added: “I don’t think anybody in Europe, including me, is in the mood for any more tedious debates about treaties, which have gone on for far too long, which is why this needs to be resolved.”

[jesuitsdidit]

Ken Clarke: Conservatives will not reopen debate on Lisbon Treaty. Time for a campaign 4 the referendum ppl.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/conservative/5540627/Ken-Clarke-Conservatives-will-not-reopen-debate-on-Lisbon-Treaty.html


Ken Clarke: Conservatives will not reopen debate on Lisbon Treaty
The Conservatives will not reopen the debate or hold a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty if Ireland ratifies it later this year, shadow business secretary Ken Clarke has said.


By Andrew Porter, Political Editor
Published: 12:24PM BST 15 Jun 2009

picShadow Business Secretary has said that the Conservatives will not reopen the debate on Lisbon Treaty Photo: IAN JONES

The surprising admission from Mr Clarke, the most pro-European Union member of David Cameron’s shadow cabinet, is the clearest signal yet that, despite the party hierarchy having tried to leave open the possibility of a retrospective referendum when the Tories got into power, voters would not be given a say on the controversial treaty which is, in effect, an EU constitution.

Both Mr Cameron and William Hague, the shadow foreign secretary, have said they will “not let matters rest” even if the Irish vote “yes” at the second time of asking this autumn. Voters in Ireland are expected to accept the treaty, despite rejecting it the first time around last year.

Labour promised a referendum on the constitution, but never delivered a vote.

The Tories, however, fought the recent European elections insisting they were not finished with the treaty. But Mr Clarke told BBC’s Politics Show on Sunday: “If the Irish referendum endorses the treaty and ratification comes into effect, then our settled policy is quite clear that the treaty will not be reopened.

“But it has also been said by David Cameron – and he means it – that it will not rest there and he will want to start discussing the division of competences between member states and the European Union,” Mr Clarke added.

He went on to describe how the Tories would instead simply look at some of the employment legislation issues that stem from Europe.

Mr Cameron brought Mr Clarke, who held a number of top Cabinet positions in the previous Tory administration, back into his shadow team last January to bolster its experience.

But his comments will infuriate many on his own side, including those who gave warning that his well-documented admiration for the EU would come back to haunt the Tory leader.

Bill Cash, the Eurosceptic backbench Tory MP, demanded to know if Mr Clarke’s comments were sanctioned by the party leadership.

He said it was essential that Britain held a referendum on Lisbon, irrespective of the Irish vote. He added: “It appears that Kenneth Clarke has reinvented unilaterally Conservative Party policy on the whole of the Lisbon Treaty and European policy.”

As polls in Ireland indicate that the treaty will be approved, Mr Clarke added: “I don’t think anybody in Europe, including me, is in the mood for any more tedious debates about treaties, which have gone on for far too long, which is why this needs to be resolved.”

[yozhik]

I don't get it ... truly.

Is it not obvious that there is a massive unhappiness amongst the "governed" about this?

Whatever happened to those in parliament representing the voters?
Where is their mandate?

Why should we just idly sit by, while this piece of shit legislation gets forced upon us?
Makes no sense.

Where is Guy Fawkes when you need him ...

[jesuitsdidit]

this is the time to launch a campaign for a EU referendum
b4 it gets buried by the 'summer holidays'
and the Irish ratify in the Autumn without a whimper

ideas anyone??

[yozhik]

Mr Clarke added: “I don’t think anybody in Europe, including me, is in the mood for any more tedious debates about treaties, which have gone on for far too long, which is why this needs to be resolved.”

Tedious debates ... oh how we long for a tedious debate!!!!
We haven't ever been given the luxury of having a tedious debate.
Its as if we don't exist.

Fuckers ... all of them.
Incompetent, self serving assholes.
A plague upon them and their families.

[jesuitsdidit]

Tedious debates ... oh how we long for a tedious debate!!!!
We haven't ever been given the luxury of having a tedious debate.
Its as if we don't exist.

Fuckers ... all of them.
Incompetent, self serving assholes.
A plague upon them and their families.

exactly

theres never been a debate

the only debate took place at the secret World Council
'do we bring it in in 09 or 2010?'

[jesuitsdidit]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/jun/14/kenneth-clarke-lisbon-treaty-eu


Kenneth Clarke softens Tory line on Lisbon treaty
ie he actually hardens it. j


guardian.co.uk, Sunday 14 June 2009 22.12 BST

A future Tory government would accept the Lisbon treaty and concentrate instead on repatriating powers, mainly in the field of employment, the shadow business secretary, Kenneth Clarke, said yesterday.

In a softening of the party's opposition to the treaty, which bolsters the power of EU institutions at the expense of member states, Clarke said that a Tory government would not reopen the measure if it was fully ratified.

The party's leader, David Cameron, has caused some confusion over the treaty in recent months. During the elections to the European parliament, he said he would hold a referendum if the treaty had not been ratified by all EU member states.

If Ireland votes yes in a referendum this autumn, effectively the last hurdle, Cameron said he "would not let matters rest there".

This was seen by pro-Europeans as a sign that Cameron was prepared to do battle with the rest of the EU to try and unravel some of the institutional changes in the treaty.

But Clarke told BBC1's The Politics Show today: "If the Irish referendum endorses the treaty and ratification comes into effect, then our settled policy is quite clear – that the treaty will not be reopened ... I don't think anybody in Europe … is in the mood for any more tedious debates about treaties, which have gone on for far too long, which is why this needs to be resolved."

He added that a Tory government would still seek to negotiate the return of some powers back to Britain, mainly in the employment field. The Tories have their eyes on the social chapter, famously the subject of a British opt-out negotiated by John Major in the Maastricht treaty negotiations in 1991. Tony Blair signed up to the social chapter in 1997.

Clarke said: "I think there are some other member states who think it is perfectly legitimate to start considering whether or not something like the opt-out to the old social chapter might not be reconsidered."

Restoring the social chapter will be difficult, but not impossible, because it no longer exists in one place. Its provisions are instead dotted around various EU treaties which can only be amended with the agreement of all EU member states.

The intervention by Clarke, a staunch pro-European who returned to the shadow cabinet on the understanding that he would not seek to alter Cameron's Eurosceptic policies, upset hardliners. Bill Cash, the veteran Eurosceptic Tory MP, said: "It appears that Kenneth Clarke has reinvented unilaterally Conservative party policy on the whole of the Lisbon treaty and European policy."

David Miliband, the foreign secretary, said: "Conservative policy on Europe is now in disarray. Kenneth Clarke knows that Tory policy 'not to let matters rest' on the Lisbon treaty is hare-brained and dangerous for British business, but his leader and shadow foreign secretary are committed to it.

A Tory spokesman said Clarke had not changed party policy. "AAs Ken Clarke explained, if the Lisbon treaty is ratified and in force across the EU by the time of the election of a Conservative government, we would not let matters rest there. We have consistently made clear that the return of social and employment legislation to UK control would be a major goal for a Conservative government."Cameron will come under pressure on a second front this week amid signs that his plan to set up a new Eurosceptic grouping in Strasbourg could be blocked by the European parliament. Leading figures in the assembly said he would not be allowed to form the groupunless he could show that its members had a deep political "affinity" and shared the same basic principles.

Martin Schulz, chairman of the socialist group in the parliament made clear Cameron, a social liberal who believes in a wider free trading Europe, could not expect to cobble together a group of disparate rightwingers - some of whom are anti-gay, anti-immigrant and anti-free market - and claim its members were broadly of like mind, in order to secure group status. "We will be looking carefully at the formation of this group. It is very early and I do not have a clear view as to what they will do. But the contraditions on the right wing are obvious."

[jesuitsdidit]

ok
so the moderators have merged
this thread with the "Time to push for EU referendum.." thread

anyone any ideas how to have a separate
"Time to push for EU referendum.." thread?

[redpill41]

Looking at the way THEY have manipulated the last years banking collapse the timing of the irish referendum and british election it looks as if the ratification has good odds ?