If everythings an illusion

[schaff]

If everything is an illusion then who created the illusion. I dont know about anybody else but everything i touch smell feel seems real enough to me.Also makes me wonder about the we live in a matrix theory it seems a bit of a sci fi ideology to me and hasn't the idea of the matrix just come from a film just wanna see where everyone stands on this and how they come to there conclusion.

[nectars]

Not one answer anyone gives you on here will change your thinking on it, you've got to prove it to yourself. Besides that, you wont find an answer from within the illusion/matrix/whatever itself, you've got to go beyond it to find that answer.

Pick a spiritual teaching thats reliable(or even one simple spiritual concept or tool) and work with it. To do this effectively(and this is where most fall flat) it must be applied undescriminately to everything constantly -or at least as constantly as possible. Devotion & intensity to know is what will do it.

Sorry this isn't the answer you were looking for but I'm sure others will oblige.

Hope this helps :)

[gods sun]

illusion then why do i live if everything is an illusion why do i smell feel etc have emotions? its an illusion ? i dont think so and is a terrible conspiracy which proball icke started, then reptillian buisness being bad, well i do see some sence in icke but reptilians are not bad as the vatican say they are i belive icke has be brainwashed by vatican propaganda.

we are an illusion please am i not being stupid? if i was an illusion they why arnt i a molecule or atom that just floats?

[pinkgrapefruit]

If everything is an illusion then who created the illusion.

You..?

[niall]

If everything is an illusion then who created the illusion. I dont know about anybody else but everything i touch smell feel seems real enough to me.Also makes me wonder about the we live in a matrix theory it seems a bit of a sci fi ideology to me and hasn't the idea of the matrix just come from a film just wanna see where everyone stands on this and how they come to there conclusion.

To be honest i don't believe there is a matrix (apart from the film). We are here as human beings and we are meant to be so. I think that icke has done great work exposing the corruption in the world but theories like "we live in a matrix" seem for want of a better word, fantasy. I think time would be better spent appreciating our lives here on earth and asking who created us. One question i would have for icke is , who created the reptilians? I believe that not acknowledging that we are real human beings is disrespectful to our lives and our creator. We are real and so is the earth.

[joe911]

illusion then why do i live if everything is an illusion why do i smell feel etc have emotions? its an illusion ? i dont think so and is a terrible conspiracy which proball icke started, then reptillian buisness being bad, well i do see some sence in icke but reptilians are not bad as the vatican say they are i belive icke has be brainwashed by vatican propaganda.

we are an illusion please am i not being stupid? if i was an illusion they why arnt i a molecule or atom that just floats?

Because this is part of your human experience,its how our minds decode what goes on around us.Language is a good example of how our mind decodes things,if you show an english person this;
http://static.squidoo.com/resize/squidoo_images/-1/draft_lens1441580module8530159photo_Dog_Medicine_S ide_Effects5.jpg1204589384
They will see 'dog'.Show the same picture to a prench person and they see 'chien'.
Have you ever read what happened to jill balte taylor when she had a stroke and her left brain [the side that organizes] shut down and the way she saw everything changed. Icke diddnt start off the whole 'its an illusion' thing,many people before him have researched it.
If you think of humanity and what we could do a few thousand years ago,we could build pyramids,something we would struggle to do today.Now look at what we have become today,we have lost our ability to connect and share this greater knowlage.
The vaticans all about closed minds and money,If you walk outside the vatican on one side you see magnificent buildings full of riches and at the same time thousands of people living in poverty.We have the potential to end poverty,to end suffering,greed,corruption,if we were to all unite as one we could change the world dramatically.

[niall]

Its still the same animal though, and it is real and does exist in its true form. Many language's have different words for animals (and most over things) yet that has nothing to do with them being an illusion, as they are not. They are real and so are you. Can i ask you who you think your are created by and also how you have come to your conclusion and who led you to it?

[horus13]

the universe created you.

[hirschfelder]

I dont know about anybody else but everything i touch smell feel seems real enough to me.

That's a good point, I'm surprised nobody's mentioned it before

I can touch things too. Come to think of it, I can see, hear, smell and taste too

Unless this illusion is somehow illusory, I don't see how it can be an illusion

[hirschfelder]

One question i would have for icke is , who created the reptilians?

It's annoying isn't it.

Why can't conspiracy author David Icke write books on these subjects and explain how and why he comes to the conclusions he does?

[niall]

It's annoying isn't it.

Why can't conspiracy author David Icke write books on these subjects and explain how and why he comes to the conclusions he does?

Good point. It would certainly clear up a few things!

[niall]

the universe created you.

Who created the universe?

[horus13]

you are from creation. you are matter that is vibrating at a frequency, everything on this world is. this enables your spirit or true/higher self to subjectively appreciate and experience creation and to learn. although this isn't happening very quickly on earth. you're essentially asking the age old question "what is the meaning of life". i think you won't find the question you are looking for, maybe in a couple of life's time.

[joe911]

Its still the same animal though, and it is real and does exist in its true form. Many language's have different words for animals (and most over things) yet that has nothing to do with them being an illusion, as they are not. They are real and so are you. Can i ask you who you think your are created by and also how you have come to your conclusion and who led you to it?

Yes it is the same animal,but our minds decode it differently.I dont think this world is dense and psysical,its all an illusion,and a tiny part of it too,this is the known spectrum and we operate on a tiny fraction of it.
http://www.revisionworld.com/files/spectrum%20copy.jpg
If everythings real then how do you explain things like holograms,optical illusions,we decode this reality as 3d but just because we dont experience other dimensions it doesnt mean they arent there.
I beleive we are all part of one consciousness,we have the ability and potential to do great things with it,ie remote viewing [and dont say its bull because i can do it myself,as can many others]. I havent come to a conclusion yet,i think that somehow our spirit enters our body,it develops,learns then when our body dies it goes off to infinite consciousness,infinite love.

[joe911]

One question i would have for icke is , who created the reptilians? I believe that not acknowledging that we are real human beings is disrespectful to our lives and our creator. We are real and so is the earth.

Your asuming we have a creator.What if we are all just here? Someone on another thread said we could all just be an experiment in someones shed for all we know. If we do have a creaotor then he is very neglectful of his creations.
As for the reptilian thing we all have reptillian aspects of our human brain.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_F3Rwk_wA4rg/R9E6tVacNRI/AAAAAAAAE-o/9PvKxFxmyu4/s400/Brain-Triune_2.gif

[schaff]

I think that icke has done great work exposing the corruption in the world but theories like "we live in a matrix" seem for want of a better word, fantasy. I think time would be better spent appreciating our lives here on earth and asking who created us.

i agree niall and hirchfelder its all well and good saying we live in a matrix but we are real and if someone hits you you feel pain or is that illusionary too.Why are people scared of a reality it sounds like a cop out to me to put your faith in the ideology of a film.

[joe911]

i agree niall and hirchfelder its all well and good saying we live in a matrix but we are real and if someone hits you you feel pain or is that illusionary too.Why are people scared of a reality it sounds like a cop out to me to put your faith in the ideology of a film.

Because thats how your mind responds to been hit,you can take drugs which alter this programming and if you were hit you would feel no pain.

[element]

Your asuming we have a creator.What if we are all just here? Someone on another thread said we could all just be an experiment in someones shed for all we know. If we do have a creaotor then he is very neglectful of his creations.
What makes you think it's a 'he', perhaps its already in you mate but maybe it's you who is unaware of it?
As for the reptilian thing we all have reptillian aspects of our human brain.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_F3Rwk_wA4rg/R9E6tVacNRI/AAAAAAAAE-o/9PvKxFxmyu4/s400/Brain-Triune_2.gif
This ain't a scientific fact, is it?:)

[schaff]

Hi joe911 someone i know has had many graphic visions on world changing events before they happened i have personally witnessed this and to be honest it shit the life out of me.If you was to meet this person they would tell you these visions dont come from infinite conciousness but from a divine intervention and that we are all individual.Also why would you want to be part of a oneness if you are an individual here on earth ,does that mean all the murdering nwo scumbags you are against will be sharing your oneness too:confused:

[niall]

This ain't a scientific fact, is it?:)

Nope. It definitely not!

[niall]

Because thats how your mind responds to been hit,you can take drugs which alter this programming and if you were hit you would feel no pain.

The drugs you take to numb pain work on your brain and nervous system. This is a medical thing and has nothing to do with programming. I mean you no offence joe911 but there are many other explanations than illusion, the matrix and programming. We are all real individuals living on a very real planet called earth. Sometimes it helps to question the "source" of these theories, which is all they are, just unprovable theories which are based on amongst other things hollywood propaganda. This is what the powers that be want you to believe which is why they make films like the matrix in the first place.

[joe911]

What makes you think it's a 'he', perhaps its already in you mate but maybe it's you who is unaware of it?

This ain't a scientific fact, is it?:)

Because no women would ever create a mess like this,women are alot more organized then men.
And no not scientific fact but on an evolutionary scale we were once primates,and before that possibly reptillian who knows??

[joe911]

Hi joe911 someone i know has had many graphic visions on world changing events before they happened i have personally witnessed this and to be honest it shit the life out of me.If you was to meet this person they would tell you these visions dont come from infinite conciousness but from a divine intervention and that we are all individual.Also why would you want to be part of a oneness if you are an individual here on earth ,does that mean all the murdering nwo scumbags you are against will be sharing your oneness too:confused:

I dont see the difference between infinate consciousness/divine intervention isnt it basically the same thing? We are all indidual,but individual aspects of that oneness.This is why its possible to tune into other peoples feild and remotley see what they are doing. And the nwo murders are part of consciousness too,only they operate on lower vibrational fequencys.

I have a question for those making statements about david.Have you actually ever read any of his books,or sat through one of his talks?

[niall]

Because no women would ever create a mess like this,women are alot more organized then men.
And no not scientific fact but on an evolutionary scale we were once primates,and before that possibly reptillian who knows??

I've been alive on this earth for 31 years now and during that time i have never been a primate or a reptilian. I'm glad i'm a human being living on earth. Are you glad that your a human being living on earth?

[joe911]

I've been alive on this earth for 31 years now and during that time i have never been a primate or a reptilian. I'm glad i'm a human being living on earth. Are you glad that your a human being living on earth?

You are here through evolution,it diddnt happen overnight.And im just having a human experience,id rather be a fish or a bird to be honest.

[niall]

I have a question for those making statements about david.Have you actually ever read any of his books,or sat through one of his talks?

I have read And the truth will set you free, The global conspiracy, and Children of the matrix and The biggest secret. I understood what he was saying about the corruption etc and like i said before i feel he has done a great job exposing it. I also considered his infinite conciousness theories, but after a while i "woke up" to the fact that thats all they are. Unprovable theories that seem based on a lot of movie/tv scripts. For example i was very disappointed when i realised that his matrix theories are after the movie. I was also disappointed when i realised that his reptilian ideas are years after the mini series "v". The series if i remember correctly features an illustration thats in The biggest secret. I also noticed in all his books that he is completely atheist yet can anyone explain why he constantly talks of satanic worship by the ptb? Surely if he is against any religion and dismisses it as rubbish then he couldn't seriously use the word satanic.

[niall]

You are here through evolution,it diddnt happen overnight.And im just having a human experience,id rather be a fish or a bird to be honest.

Would you be disappointed if you were to find out you was only ever going to be a human being and that you should be grateful for it?

[joe911]

Would you be disappointed if you were to find out you was only ever going to be a human being and that you should be grateful for it?

Nah because when i turn 17 im going out to the bahamas with greenforce to carry out marine conservation work which involves alot of diving,so in a way ill get to experience what its like living underwater :) If i never return as anything else than its no big deal,i wont be around to complain about it will i:D
And ive nothing to be greatful for.My parents did it...9 months later out i popped,its hardly a divine miracle.

[hirschfelder]

I also considered his infinite conciousness theories, but after a while i "woke up" to the fact that thats all they are. Unprovable theories

You had to 'wake up' to that? Fucking hell, you must have been in a bad way! Did you think David Icke's books were textbooks for long?

At the end of the day, the idea of reptilian aliens predates V and the ideas explored by The Matrix film predate it by a looooong time. I wouldn't get too hung up on Hollywood using these ideas too

[schaff]

I dont see the difference between infinate consciousness/divine intervention isnt it basically the same thing? We are all indidual,but individual aspects of that oneness.This is why its possible to tune into other peoples feild and remotley see what they are doing. And the nwo murders are part of consciousness too,only they operate on lower vibrational fequencys.

I have a question for those making statements about david.Have you actually ever read any of his books,or sat through one of his talks?

Hi joe911 regarding visions remote viewing is that divine intervention is through God and infinite conciousness is channelled through satanic demonic entities because you have no protection or faith be careful what you dabble in.Regarding David's work i have read his books but you dont have to take all his work literally, as i mentioned in my earlier post my friend who had those visions gave me some great advice QUESTION EVERYTHING AND DONT FOLLOW BLINDLY

[niall]

Nah because when i turn 17 im going out to the bahamas with greenforce to carry out marine conservation work which involves alot of diving,so in a way ill get to experience what its like living underwater :) If i never return as anything else than its no big deal,i wont be around to complain about it will i:D
And ive nothing to be greatful for.My parents did it...9 months later out i popped,its hardly a divine miracle.

I wish you well joe911 with your marine conservation and i'm sure it will be a fascinating and enjoyable career. When you think about it you'll realise that all the creatures your encounter are real and not part of the "matrix", but part of the beauty of the world. If the world was an illusion there would be no point in wanting to help conserve it because it wouldn't be real. That alone shows you are probably more flexible about the views you hold than you might of realised. As for the part about your parents and your birth, if you think about it deeper you will realise that the gift of life is nothing less than a miracle and it was made to be that way. One of my friends is 7 months pregnant and i think your find she will view it as nothing less than a miracle to have a human being growing inside her. Its sad to think that our culture is already devaluing the creation of life. That, your find is straight out of the nwo manual. Always be as flexible as you can with knowledge and understand that there is something new to learn everyday.

[joe911]

Hi joe911 regarding visions remote viewing is that divine intervention is through God and infinite conciousness is channelled through satanic demonic entities because you have no protection or faith be careful what you dabble in.Regarding David's work i have read his books but you dont have to take all his work literally, as i mentioned in my earlier post my friend who had those visions gave me some great advice QUESTION EVERYTHING AND DONT FOLLOW BLINDLY

I have remote visions too,i can see loved ones or people i am close too wherever they are in the world. Im an atheist,i beleive there is no god,nor is there any satan.I do not need protection,i have love :)
Thats good advice,but it goes the same for religious folk too:)

[kappy0405]

Hi joe911 regarding visions remote viewing is that divine intervention is through God and infinite conciousness is channelled through satanic demonic entities because you have no protection or faith be careful what you dabble in:rolleyes: people still believe this shite? Yes, 'God' is all-loving and remorseful, but only to those who worship at his feet! Sorry, but if what you say is true, then God is quite the asshole.

QUESTION EVERYTHING AND DONT FOLLOW BLINDLYSo where's your proof for 'god'? Oh yeah, the Illuminati said so, it must be true. ;)

[schaff]

:rolleyes: people still believe this shite? Yes, 'God' is all-loving and remorseful, but only to those who worship at his feet! Sorry, but if what you say is true, then God is quite the asshole.

So where's your proof for 'god'? Oh yeah, the Illuminati said so, it must be true. ;)

So do you believe everything is an illusion and we live in a matrix?

[gods sun]

reptiallian buisness i belive is real but they are our creators, why doesnt icke consider that the vatican made reptiallians a bad image because then the vatican if such event happens like 2012 they are made unsuprime and end up same class like us. thats why vatican doesnt like reptilian beings and say there evil?

the gaints came down and got human pregnant, do you see genitalia size would be quite a mess and difficult :D

[joe911]

I wish you well joe911 with your marine conservation and i'm sure it will be a fascinating and enjoyable career. When you think about it you'll realise that all the creatures your encounter are real and not part of the "matrix", but part of the beauty of the world. If the world was an illusion there would be no point in wanting to help conserve it because it wouldn't be real. That alone shows you are probably more flexible about the views you hold than you might of realised. As for the part about your parents and your birth, if you think about it deeper you will realise that the gift of life is nothing less than a miracle and it was made to be that way. One of my friends is 7 months pregnant and i think your find she will view it as nothing less than a miracle to have a human being growing inside her. Its sad to think that our culture has lessened the value and creation of life. That your find is straight out of the nwo manual. Always be as flexible as you can with knowledge and understand that there is something new to learn everyday.
Thankyou :) Yes i agree the world and its creatures are beautiful,but i know there is more than just the 5 sense reality,the electromagnetic spectrum proves that.
Life can be an amazing thing,we all have the potential to do great things,and the only way to do that is through expanding our minds and opening up to new possibilities/ideas etc..
A amazing pic:
http://www.shirari.com/blog/img/pigeon-monkey.jpg

[red_ram]

i agree niall and hirchfelder its all well and good saying we live in a matrix but we are real and if someone hits you you feel pain or is that illusionary too.Why are people scared of a reality it sounds like a cop out to me to put your faith in the ideology of a film.

Icke was writing about the nature of reality years before the film was even written. He refers to is as the Matrix simply because it offers very good analogies as to how reality works.

[arty2000]

illusion then why do i live if everything is an illusion why do i smell feel etc have emotions? its an illusion ? i dont think so and is a terrible conspiracy which proball icke started, then reptillian buisness being bad, well i do see some sence in icke but reptilians are not bad as the vatican say they are i belive icke has be brainwashed by vatican propaganda.

we are an illusion please am i not being stupid? if i was an illusion they why arnt i a molecule or atom that just floats?

you are..science has shown that;)

[arty2000]

To be honest i don't believe there is a matrix (apart from the film). We are here as human beings and we are meant to be so. I think that icke has done great work exposing the corruption in the world but theories like "we live in a matrix" seem for want of a better word, fantasy. I think time would be better spent appreciating our lives here on earth and asking who created us. One question i would have for icke is , who created the reptilians? I believe that not acknowledging that we are real human beings is disrespectful to our lives and our creator. We are real and so is the earth.

maybe were not human beings having a spiritual experience but spiritual beings having a human experience...which makes sense to you?;)

[arty2000]

the universe created you.

and maybe you created the universe;)

[niall]

I am a human being. When i look in the mirror i can see that i am. I for one am grateful for my life. I am not part of any collective consciousness as i am an individual with my own thoughts.:) The collective consciousness and oneness is an unprovable theory.

[arty2000]

Its still the same animal though, and it is real and does exist in its true form. Many language's have different words for animals (and most over things) yet that has nothing to do with them being an illusion, as they are not. They are real and so are you. Can i ask you who you think your are created by and also how you have come to your conclusion and who led you to it?

modern science has stated what the ancient peoples knew that everything we percieve is vibrating energy..that everything is made up of atoms which are w/out mass so how can something w/out mass be solid/real?;)

[niall]

modern science has stated what the ancient peoples knew that everything we percieve is vibrating energy..that everything is made up of atoms which are w/out mass so how can something w/out mass be solid/real?;)

Pinch yourself or knock on a door and your find that it/you are solid/real. Your brain decodes it that way because that is reality.:)

[arty2000]

I've been alive on this earth for 31 years now and during that time i have never been a primate or a reptilian. I'm glad i'm a human being living on earth. Are you glad that your a human being living on earth?
how do you know that is what you really are?;)

[arty2000]

Would you be disappointed if you were to find out you was only ever going to be a human being and that you should be grateful for it?

sounds like groveling to me;)

[measle_weasel]

modern science has stated what the ancient peoples knew that everything we percieve is vibrating energy..that everything is made up of atoms which are w/out mass so how can something w/out mass be solid/real?;)

Link?

[niall]

Pinch yourself or knock on a door and your find that it/you are solid/real. Your brain decodes it that way because that is reality.:)

how do you know that is what you really are?;)
Read my post above:)
Do you think your not a human being?

[arty2000]

Read my post above:)
Do you think your not a human being?

if you feel that what you are is a human being and no more and that is what you choose then good luck w/that:)

[schaff]

you are..science has shown that;)

Who created the atoms then ?

[niall]

if you feel that what you are is a human being and no more and that is what you choose then good luck w/that:)

Thank you:) and good luck with whatever it is you feel that you are.

[arty2000]

Link?I dont have a specific link you can google atom..I correct myself in that atoms have a miniscule weight:o but they are in constant motion and they are the building blocks of everything...what makes a chair seem more solid than a human is the energy in the latter is vibrating at a slower rate:)

[simplysimon]

Thank you:) and good luck with whatever it is you feel that you are.

There's a quick experiment you can do, if you want to know what you really are :)

Make 2 "C" shapes with your thumbs and forefingers of both hands turn your right hand 90 degrees, imagining a beam of energy between the tip of your thumbs and forefingers. Then while closing your eyes, move the beam of energy in your right hand across the beam in your left hand. Freaks me out :cool:

[hirschfelder]

Pinch yourself or knock on a door and your find that it/you are solid/real. Your brain decodes it that way because that is reality.:)

You're not quite grasping it are you

Nobody is saying that doors can't be knocked on!

If it was that simple, the scientists working on holographic/illusory models of reality would only have to knock on a door and their research would be worthless

[measle_weasel]

I dont have a specific link you can google atom..I correct myself in that atoms have a miniscule weight:o but they are in constant motion and they are the building blocks of everything...what makes a chair seem more solid than a human is the energy in the latter is vibrating at a slower rate:)

So youre saying that things are solid against other things only if they are vibrating at different rates? Is the rate of vibration determined only by what atoms the object is composed of?

[simplysimon]

I think atoms are something like 99.9% empty space and 0.1% nucleus. If we're all made of atoms, it's impossible for us or anything else to be physically real or rather 99.9% of us is empty space held together by a vibrating energy field. Our physical senses pick up these vibrations and then our minds decode those electrical signals into reality.

[arty2000]

Who created the atoms then ?umm...you did,,this becoming rather circular dont you think..:D..google atoms,vibrating energy etc.did you even look at what joe911 posted on the visible spectrum..well if you think you are only human....peace be with ya:)

[forestgrump]

modern science has stated what the ancient peoples knew that everything we percieve is vibrating energy..that everything is made up of atoms which are w/out mass so how can something w/out mass be solid/real?;)

Link?

Perhaps not 'proven' but the theory has some basis in physics apparently:
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20126911.300-our-world-may-be-a-giant-hologram.html

[arty2000]

So youre saying that things are solid against other things only if they are vibrating at different rates? Is the rate of vibration determined only by what atoms the object is composed of?

are atoms the building blocks of everything?what is the extra ingredient(s) that makes granite appear to be more solid than a chair is it solely the lack of atoms in the one and more in the other are you saying there are granite atoms and chair atom etc and they come together to form either a chair or granite?

[arty2000]

I think atoms are something like 99.9% empty space and 0.1% nucleus. If we're all made of atoms, it's impossible for us or anything else to be physically real or rather 99.9% of us is empty space held together by a vibrating energy field. Our physical senses pick up these vibrations and then our minds decode those electrical signals into reality.

thanks...was never good at math:D

[schaff]

So if everythings an illusion what are we all worried about then or is it just an easy way of really saying ill do what i want and dont give a fuck

[simplysimon]

So if everythings an illusion what are we all worried about then or is it just an easy way of really saying ill do what i want and dont give a fuck

I believe most people are worried because of the constant fearful bombardment they receive from life. Transcending your fears is one of the lessons I feel we are hear to learn about.

Smiling is probably another :)

[kappy0405]

Pinch yourself or knock on a door and your find that it/you are solid/real. Your brain decodes it that way because that is reality.:)

anything you experience as a result of your brain is merely a chemical reaction, and thus the result of atoms/molecules interacting: conciousness.

Many people have the ability to block physical sensations out completely. Does that prove it's not real? It's simply our perception that makes anything what it is..

So do you believe everything is an illusion and we live in a matrix?

my definition of the 'illusion' may be different than others. The illusion comes in the belief that what we call the physical world is all there is to reality.

Considering that all matter, biological or not, is merely atoms and molecules, then the only thing making one thing different than another is how those atoms/molecules respond and interact/vibrate with one another. As another poster mentioned, the electromagnetic field is proof that our 5 sense reality is a sham. We can't currently percieve radio waves, etc because the vibration is out of our 5 sense capability. It's still there.. If you need proof, just turn on a radio. The 'matrix' imo is simply the conditioning that has kept us focused on percieving everything with this 5 sense mindset.

Atoms are like 99.9999% empty space, so you could say that it's an illusion to suggest something is any more physical than another, whether it appears physical or not. It's simply more dense and/or vibrating differently.

[measle_weasel]

are atoms the building blocks of everything?

I dont know. But you said they were.

what is the extra ingredient(s) that makes granite appear to be more solid than a chair is it solely the lack of atoms in the one and more in the other are you saying there are granite atoms and chair atom etc and they come together to form either a chair or granite?

You seem to be just repeating my question. Do you not know the answer, then?

[simplysimon]

Just found a really cool video on atomic structure!

Video

[forestgrump]

So if everythings an illusion what are we all worried about then or is it just an easy way of really saying ill do what i want and dont give a fuck

My take on it, at the moment, is that what you perceive using your five 'physical' senses may be illusory.

If everything is in fact 'real' in the sense that you deem it to be, why I would I be inclined to 'give a fuck' anymore than I'm inclined to 'give a fuck' now or vice versa?

[spock]

atoms are part of the code of this "illusion"

i am infinate consousness experiencing life as a human.
i know i am in a kind of exile because the "Illusion" wouldn't work if i knew everything.
and the experience would be worthless.
like cheating on an exam. you passed but you still don't really grasp the subject.
if i knew everthing about the world, how it worked, where it was? who made it.
it still wouldn't tell me what it felt like to live in the body of an upright monkey.

i could give you a book on horse riding........but it won't make you a champion jockey. ;)
until you ride a horse 5 hours a day for 10 years.
and even then you might be shit at it

[schaff]

My take on it, at the moment, is that what you perceive using your five 'physical' senses may be illusory.

If everything is in fact 'real' in the sense that you deem it to be, why I would I be inclined to 'give a fuck' anymore than I'm inclined to 'give a fuck' now or vice versa?

Cause if its all illusion theres nothing to care about theres nothingness, do you see where i am coming from cause its real you can take action care love have faith in God and make a real difference

[arty2000]

I believe most people are worried because of the constant fearful bombardment they receive from life. Transcending your fears is one of the lessons I feel we are hear to learn about.

Smiling is probably another :)

:):):D

[arty2000]

I dont know. But you said they were.



You seem to be just repeating my question. Do you not know the answer, then?

its an illusion:)

wow you ask good questions:D

yes I know the answer for me..as for you cant say,,sorry:o

[joe911]

Cause if its all illusion theres nothing to care about theres nothingness, do you see where i am coming from cause its real you can take action care love have faith in God and make a real difference

Theres everything to care about!! We dont need faith in god or anything to be able to make a difference."Be the change you want to see in the world"

[arty2000]

atoms are part of the code of this "illusion"

i am infinate consousness experiencing life as a human.
i know i am in a kind of exile because the "Illusion" wouldn't work if i knew everything.
and the experience would be worthless.
like cheating on an exam. you passed but you still don't really grasp the subject.
if i knew everthing about the world, how it worked, where it was? who made it.
it still wouldn't tell me what it felt like to live in the body of an upright monkey.

i could give you a book on horse riding........but it won't make you a champion jockey. ;)
until you ride a horse 5 hours a day for 10 years.
and even then you might be shit at it
exactly...

would you want to play the game if you knew every play before it happened every penalty etc. and what the final score would be.;)

[forestgrump]

Cause if its all illusion theres nothing to care about theres nothingness, do you see where i am coming from cause its real you can take action care love have faith in God and make a real difference

Icke's view in his books is that the physical world is an illusion. That is a theory that appears to have some credibility in the world of particle physics.

As far as David Icke writes, our conscious exists on a higher plane as it were. I exist, as do you, but we are not the sum of our physical bodies and must not make the mistake of believing so.

As for his belief that we are all ultimately part of one 'conscious', well that is not an uncommon belief. I think occult 'magicians' support the view that true enlightenment comes with the dissolution of the ego. Christianity asks that you surrender your will completely to God. Is there any difference as far as your individuality goes?

In fact, if you believe in an afterlife of any sort, then discussion of the nature of the physical world that we inhabit now is somewhat irrelevant I would think. What would be more important is how you ensure that you arrive in the afterlife and thats when opinions really start to differ.

[spock]

Cause if its all illusion theres nothing to care about theres nothingness, do you see where i am coming from cause its real you can take action care love have faith in God and make a real difference

just because you know it's an illusion doesn't mean you have to say ah fuck it then.
there is still a lot to be experienced.

if i poke you in the eye you'd know what i was talking about.
it feels real. your eye is watering. you can't see.
could you say for sure that it was going to feel like that or did you have to let me poke you right in the eye ball to truly understand.........er.....i mean comprehend? :D

if you choose to not give a fuck then that is a choice. ;)

[spock]

exactly...

would you want to play the game if you knew every play before it happened every penalty etc. and what the final score would be.;)

yes........ why go to wembly if you know francis fookin lampard is gonna score a screamer right near the end?
to experience sunburn? hahaha!

[measle_weasel]

Cause if its all illusion theres nothing to care about theres nothingness, do you see where i am coming from cause its real you can take action care love have faith in God and make a real difference

I understand where you are coming from. "Its all an illusion" is just another form of escapism in which people employ to downplay the severity of real life in their own minds. Also, it can be used as an excuse to not take difficult action against TPTB, because after all... our oppression, slavery, unhappiness, etc, is just an illusion, right? No need to make to much of an effort to change it, cause its not real!

This reality is not all there is, I believe that as much as anything. But to believe this reality is somehow inconsequential is naive at best, and down right deluded at worst.

[arty2000]

yes........ why go to wembly if you know francis fookin lampard is gonna score a screamer right near the end?
to experience sunburn? hahaha!

dont know what a screamer is but I hear ya:D

[arty2000]

I understand where you are coming from. "Its all an illusion" is just another form of escapism in which people employ to downplay the severity of real life in their own minds. Also, it can be used as an excuse to not take difficult action against TPTB, because after all... our oppression, slavery, unhappiness, etc, is just an illusion, right? No need to make to much of an effort to change it, cause its not real!

This reality is not all there is, I believe that as much as anything. But to believe this reality is somehow inconsequential is naive at best, and down right deluded at worst.

who said any about not having relevance..it is what you choose..if you believe something is not important for you then go in peace thats your chose...you may need to reread the posts..ops are talkin bout seeing things for what they are..the best way imo to challenge the ptb is to see through there manipulations and to say we see this for what it is...an illusion:)

[spock]

dont know what a screamer is but I hear ya:D


well if someone kicks a ball from 40yards out with his weaker left foot and it flies into the goal. then that is a screamer.
men stay silent......girls start to scream the closer it gets to the goal. (if you are opposition fans)

[reptileslayer]

If everything is an illusion then who created the illusion. I dont know about anybody else but everything i touch smell feel seems real enough to me.Also makes me wonder about the we live in a matrix theory it seems a bit of a sci fi ideology to me and hasn't the idea of the matrix just come from a film just wanna see where everyone stands on this and how they come to there conclusion.
The Architect created this matrix, The Architect= the Devil, Gods/our schizophrenic alter ego/personality. Icke is studying this at the present time, he will figure it out soon. :D

[arty2000]

well if someone kicks a ball from 40yards out with his weaker left foot and it flies into the goal. then that is a screamer.
men stay silent......girls start to scream the closer it gets to the goal. (if you are opposition fans)

gotcha....like a 55 yard field goal w/2 secs left on the clock....lets go ffl:D

[deem]

atoms are part of the code of this "illusion"

i am infinate consousness experiencing life as a human.
i know i am in a kind of exile because the "Illusion" wouldn't work if i knew everything.
and the experience would be worthless.
like cheating on an exam. you passed but you still don't really grasp the subject.
if i knew everthing about the world, how it worked, where it was? who made it.
it still wouldn't tell me what it felt like to live in the body of an upright monkey.

i could give you a book on horse riding........but it won't make you a champion jockey. ;)
until you ride a horse 5 hours a day for 10 years.
and even then you might be shit at it
Thats what i believe too. As infants, look how long it takes us to learn the spaciel awarenss to walk, pick up objects and learn language. Much easier if you are unhampered by memories, happy or traumatic from a previous existance.

[bulletproofheart]

I dont get all this illusion facade.If you killed someone you would be sent to jail.....hardly an illusion.

[motleyhoo]

If everything is an illusion then who created the illusion. I dont know about anybody else but everything i touch smell feel seems real enough to me.Also makes me wonder about the we live in a matrix theory it seems a bit of a sci fi ideology to me and hasn't the idea of the matrix just come from a film just wanna see where everyone stands on this and how they come to there conclusion.

There's no one single answer to that question, but to start with, not everything is an illusion. Possibly most things are, but for me anyway, being awake, if you want to call it that, is recognizing what's real and what's an illusion, a conspiracy, a charade, or pure propaganda.

The news media is an illusion. Who created that should be obvious - the people who own the news. The pharmaceutical industry, disease management, and the sheeples' trust in doctors and healthcare is all propaganda and disinformation (or an illusion if you will). Who created that? Quite likely the forces of greed who own it. In fact, I would say it is forces of greed and control that manifest most of which you are calling illusions. We already know many names and faces we can attach to them.

.

[miracles]

If everything is an illusion then who created the illusion. I dont know about anybody else but everything i touch smell feel seems real enough to me.Also makes me wonder about the we live in a matrix theory it seems a bit of a sci fi ideology to me and hasn't the idea of the matrix just come from a film just wanna see where everyone stands on this and how they come to there conclusion.

Not only is it sci fi - it's cultish new age crap.

[creepingdave]

People seem to be taking the concept of illusion at face value. Yes, its an illusion, but it has a purpose. One word: experience. It's not a cop out from the harsh world. Theres no denying all actions have consequences, in this life and for the next. Theres positive and negative energies both to be experienced but ultimately it should the former that people hope to achieve.

No ones mentioned karma yet as part of the illusion. Opinions seem divided on karma, but it seems fair and logical way of understanding life and helps you avoid negative actions.

Of course we can all touch/smell/feel whatever, what kind of human experience would we be getting if it didn't feel real! Of course everyone is at different levels of understanding the world and there are different experiences to be gained. It is afterall difficult to throw away the physical world when this is what we inherently know. Yet this physical experience is very important to the illusion otherwise we wouldn't be here.

[reptileslayer]

Not only is it sci fi - it's cultish new age crap.
Your/our brains do the decoding, therefore turning everything we 'see' into an illusion. The Architect is the broadcaster of the waveforms/frequencies. ;)

So it is our responsibility to find and take out the Architect. Thats who David Icke is looking for, ask him.

[spock]

I dont get all this illusion facade.If you killed someone you would be sent to jail.....hardly an illusion.

you know taking someones life is not the natural order of things.
maybe you wanted to experience solitude. or worse?

being aware of an illusion means you still experience things. it won't just stop.
your car has been built and you are driving it but you are not your car.
having a boss is an illusion. he is not in charge of your life really. just in the game you call work.
you can choose to experience not working if you like. or be your own boss and tell yourself what to do.

you can do whatever you like. whatever you want. whenever you want it.
your conscience will stop you kicking grannies teeth in.....or not.
your conscience is what makes you what you are.
it's up to you. you have a choice.
what would you like to experience?
some of these experiences will have a price however. and in some cases being bummed in the shower is one of the costs/experiences of murder.



next time you see a flower....mountain....tramp?? know they have been made for you.
so you can know what they are. to experience. to feel, smell and touch the perfection.
if it wasn't an illusion, and we knew how it was done. we'd get bored........or become masters of the universe?
but that's cheating

[21_12_2012]

If i remember rightly, our DNA acts as a transmitter and receiver of our 'reality' (matrix)

The combination of A,C,G and T is what makes up our DNA codes.(in all living things)

The difference between a mouses DNA code and ours, is very slight indeed, and
still uses A,C,G and T but in a slightly different order, which would explain why mice
(and every other living thing which also has A,C,G and T) also experience the same
'reality' as we do, but look physically different due to the code being in a different order.

The DNA is a microcrystalline substance which is perfect for transmitting/receiving
energy (i think electromagnetic or photonic light energy, cant remember which one)

The brain just decodes this energy, and puts its own unique 'spin' on it, such
as "i like that building...i like the colour of that car" etc, but, as previous posters have said,
it's all atoms of energy, which are basically empty, but vibrating at such a rate
that our DNA decodes them as solid and real.

Collective consciousness (as described by Carl Jung i think it was) also comes into it,
and basically is why we all operate similarly within the 'matrix', and belief systems
also play a big part, as hypnosis has proved. Change your subconscious beliefs,
and your reality changes.

So, basically, it is a collective illusion, which we all experience as 'real', but is really
only as 'real' as any dream, and, as Icke says, "we have been manipulated to believe it is real"

[arty2000]

If i remember rightly, our DNA acts as a transmitter and receiver of our 'reality' (matrix)

The combination of A,C,G and T is what makes up our DNA codes.(in all living things)

The difference between a mouses DNA code and ours, is very slight indeed, and
still uses A,C,G and T but in a slightly different order, which would explain why mice
(and every other living thing which also has A,C,G and T) also experience the same
'reality' as we do, but look physically different due to the code being in a different order.

The DNA is a microcrystalline substance which is perfect for transmitting/receiving
energy (i think electromagnetic or photonic light energy, cant remember which one)

The brain just decodes this energy, and puts its own unique 'spin' on it, such
as "i like that building...i like the colour of that car" etc, but, as previous posters have said,
it's all atoms of energy, which are basically empty, but vibrating at such a rate
that our DNA decodes them as solid and real.

Collective consciousness (as described by Carl Jung i think it was) also comes into it,
and basically is why we all operate similarly within the 'matrix', and belief systems
also play a big part, as hypnosis has proved. Change your subconscious beliefs,
and your reality changes.

So, basically, it is a collective illusion, which we all experience as 'real', but is really
only as 'real' as any dream, and, as Icke says, "we have been manipulated to believe it is real"

yes..and agct sounds like a form of computer code doesnt it and if you can manipulate that then maybe ;)

[21_12_2012]

yes..and agct sounds like a form of computer code doesnt it and if you can manipulate that then maybe ;)

Yes. that's right.
Reality can be described as a holographic version of the internet,and we
(humans) and animals are like computer terminals 'logged on' to the same
holographic internet by means of our DNA.

See the book:- The Holographic Universe by Michael Talbot for more information
on the holographic nature of reality.

I haven't finished reading it all yet, but what i have read is mindblowing.

[arty2000]

Yes. that's right.
Reality can be described as a holographic version of the internet,and we
(humans) and animals are like computer terminals 'logged on' to the same
holographic internet by means of our DNA.

See the book:- The Holographic Universe by Michael Talbot for more information
on the holographic nature of reality.

I haven't finished reading it all yet, but what i have read is mindblowing.

read it...good stuff:)

[lhaull]

I am not reading this.

I am not reading this.

I am not reading this.


Did you read it?

[infinite_consciousness]

You're stuck in the 5 sense prison!

[miracles]

Your/our brains do the decoding, therefore turning everything we 'see' into an illusion. The Architect is the broadcaster of the waveforms/frequencies. ;)

So it is our responsibility to find and take out the Architect. Thats who David Icke is looking for, ask him.

I've already taken "the prince of the power of the air" out through the blood of Jesus Christ, over 20 years ago now.

Did you know the masons refer to satan as the great architect?

The illusion is that Satan is an illusion who doesnt exist when he does, he is real.

Icke has unknown beings communicating with him who he doesnt care to identify or know who they are. Ask him, its on his latest video offering.

[drael]

I dont know about anybody else but everything i touch smell feel seems real enough to me.


How does touching and smelling make something real. Wouldnt an illusion be exactly the same?
.....

I suggest looking into some philosophy. Heres some for ya...with a rough summery.

Philosophical skepticism.(Search keywords: brain in a vat, hume)
"An absolute skeptic argues that he does not absolutely know anything to be either true or false"

Phenomenology:
"Everything is ultimately subjective, all human experience is from the subjective senses"

Dialectic:
"Everything is made out of opposing forces/opposing sides (contradictions). (Such as hot and cold, near and far, this and that, etc. Such seperations are subjective and only the synthesis or whole exists...see also deconstruction)"

Also science....

Holographic universe theory, string theory, quatum mechanics and torsion theory. In any of those, there is no "matter", only either an energy or spatial formation, other dimensions or in fact nothing at all.

When you really get into it, no one knows anything. So your senses could be lying to you, or perceiving something real. However even basic science says that what your perceiving is NOT solid matter.....if you buy science and particles and suchlike. (Which are in fact supposed to be energy feilds)

If there really were something, then at some point before time existed, everything spontaneously was created! Which in itself is a contradiction. With an illusion, this contradictrion is more easily resolved, as it doesnt require creation per se.

[niall]

I dont get all this illusion facade.If you killed someone you would be sent to jail.....hardly an illusion.

I'd imagine in that situation you'd be desperate and WANT the world to be an illusion, but it would still be real. I think a lot of people just want the illusion stuff to be real.:)

There's no one single answer to that question, but to start with, not everything is an illusion. Possibly most things are, but for me anyway, being awake, if you want to call it that, is recognizing what's real and what's an illusion, a conspiracy, a charade, or pure propaganda.

The news media is an illusion. Who created that should be obvious - the people who own the news. The pharmaceutical industry, disease management, and the sheeples' trust in doctors and healthcare is all propaganda and disinformation (or an illusion if you will). Who created that? Quite likely the forces of greed who own it. In fact, I would say it is forces of greed and control that manifest most of which you are calling illusions. We already know many names and faces we can attach to them.
.

I agree and think that your opinion on illusion is quite an accurate one. Really people should change the word illusion and call it "deception". We are real and we exist here as human beings like we are meant to be. The thing that is wrong is the way the ptb are running the world for their own selfish gains. I think that they would want you to think the world is an illusion and if these so called researchers were to dig deep enough they would will find that the ptb/nwo were the original source of this illusion info.

Not only is it sci fi - it's cultish new age crap.

It most definately is new age. Does anyone know if icke classes himself as new age?:rolleyes:

Your/our brains do the decoding, therefore turning everything we 'see' into an illusion. The Architect is the broadcaster of the waveforms/frequencies. ;)

So it is our responsibility to find and take out the Architect. Thats who David Icke is looking for, ask him.

The only reason your using the word architect is because it is from a movie called the matrix. It was a film that was cleverly designed to lure people to this illusion way of thinking. Look how many people it has worked on!:D


I've already taken "the prince of the power of the air" out through the blood of Jesus Christ, over 20 years ago now.

Did you know the masons refer to satan as the great architect?

The illusion is that Satan is an illusion who doesnt exist when he does, he is real.

Icke has unknown beings communicating with him who he doesnt care to identify or know who they are. Ask him, its on his latest video offering.

Thats what troubles me about the use of the word architect. It is used by masons. There seems to be a lot of people on here that fall into the nwo/ptb/mason trap so easy.
And your spot on about the illusion being that satan don't exist. That has always been the biggest plan. He exists. Look at the world using "reality" and intuition as your guide, not an unprovable "illusion theory" that is straight from a movie script!:D
As for the bit about icke communicating, its just so obvious how someone is used by these entities! My advice to people is wake up to the real world and only then can you make a differece for both yourselves, loved ones and mankind as a whole. Do not fall into an obvious trap.
The matrix is a film.
Illusion is not what you are.
You are human beings living as your meant to be.
Enjoy your life as its real.

[creepingdave]

The only reason your using the word architect is because it is from a movie called the matrix. It was a film that was cleverly designed to lure people to this illusion way of thinking. Look how many people it has worked on!:D

Did you read every post in this thread? The ideas of illusion/matrix existed long before that movie was ever conceived. No doubt the movie is a half truth/manipulation of what actually is because its Hollywood and has an agenda. My concept of illusion isn't even like that of the movie.

If anyone takes time to study history (which yes, is distorted by TPTB) then there is clear evidence of people writing and understanding about 'oneness', a form of neoplatonism if you will. Certainly in the eleventh century such ideals were severely repressed by the church. Hegel and Jung could be classified as examples of (fairly) modern day examples of eminent philosophers.

[niall]

Did you read every post in this thread? The ideas of illusion/matrix existed long before that movie was ever conceived. No doubt the movie is a half truth/manipulation of what actually is because its Hollywood and has an agenda.

Yes i have read every post on this thread and on many others. This stuff about the film being half truth isn't true. They have just used an old idea to put in a film to make sure that the matrix/illusion theory is fresh in our minds. That in turn will stop people appreciating that they are real and are alive.

[drael]

they are real and are alive.

Proof please!

And as for appreciating whether they are alive, I know that everything refered to by the subjective person is illusion, its the nature of being subjective, but I revel in that subjectivity and accept it.

To be a _subject_ in this world, and to experience, is to be subjective and experience illusion. I can prove that scientifically:from neurobiology and perception to physics & logically.

People enjoy living because of subjectivity and illusion, not despite it. I mean why wake up in the morning, why eat, why do anything? Certainly not because of something "objective" as if such existed.

This "reality" position so far, including the OP is full of empty assertion.

[niall]

Proof please!


Are you alive? I know i am.

[drael]

No I do not know that I am alive. Within subjective fallible illusory conventions sure, but in actuality, does alive even _mean_ anything?

Does a rock "think" that im "alive"? The rock is more objective than I.

I am i really even discreet from all the "matter" around me?

These are really just names for subjective experiences. That doesnt make them objective facts.

[arty2000]

Are you alive? I know i am.

could be your dreaming of being a human;)

[niall]

could be your dreaming of being a human;)

No not at all. I dream when i sleep. Do you think your dreaming of being a human;) If you do then there's medication that might help:D

[arty2000]

No not at all. I dream when i sleep. Do you think your dreaming of being a human;) If you do then there's medication that might help:D

where do dreams come from?;)

[mntruthseeker]

If everything is an illusion then who created the illusion. I dont know about anybody else but everything i touch smell feel seems real enough to me.Also makes me wonder about the we live in a matrix theory it seems a bit of a sci fi ideology to me and hasn't the idea of the matrix just come from a film just wanna see where everyone stands on this and how they come to there conclusion.

I struggle with this myself but am slowly starting to see the light.

my friend has a wonderful ebook out called Moments I and II and they are only 9.00 a piece. She puts things brilliantly into propective for people that struggle like me. I feel impelled to help Lauren get her books off as she has touched me as no others.

David Icke "woke" me up but Laurens teaches me how to get into "myself" to
grow spiritualy. She has a free blog called The God Experience at her site and many other stories. Please check it out. www.laurenzimmerman.com

[lottie]

If this is an illusion...which science appears to support in its discovery of an atom being 99% space and with the experiments conducted on DNA and vibrations/energy/wavelengths etc etc.... even still we are perfect creations as we are... some people may not see it like that but i think thats due to their ego and their own sense of lack of identity/confidence and happiness. These experiments only go to prove the perfection in the complexity of our human bodies and minds and spirits. Further proving to me that we are 'created' by something far superior and clever than us.

We are perfect...down to every last cell (illness/disease aside...as thats due to our own doing) even if we are illusory we are meant to 'experience' this world exactly how we see it! Mumbo jumbo such as astral projection/ hypnotism/ clairvoyance/ tarot/ astrology/ majic are all distractions there to decieve people into thinking there's 'more'...there is more but you're not meant to see it yet... if you were you'd see it- you wouldnt need to 'invoke it' or 'conjour it' it wouldnt be difficult to obtain...i dont see the point in this obsession with the discovery that we are all an 'illusion' or the world we see is an illusion'...what does that change? nothing... im still here- experiencing the world as it is..in all its splendour in all its glory and beauty... its perfection and i want to continue enjoying it untill i die and whatever is meant to happen to me will happen.

All this illusory stuff is distracting us away from the true facts that the governments are corrupted, they have an agenda, they are evil and are enslaving us and creating a world in which you'll all wish you were an illusion yet you still cant disappear in a puff of ether or vibrate yourself outta here can you? No..because we're physical beings :D

Why do the elite worship Satan? Why does anyone who gets anywhere in status worship Satan or engage in Satanic practices? Why Satan? Why do they all engage in satanic worship at Bohemian Grove? why do all the politicians wave the satanic handsigns? why do the famous insist on flaunting satanic and dark symbols? why do dicks like marilyn manson brag about joining sick cults like the 'church of satan' with Anton LeVay? Why did Crowley invoke satanic shit? its all satanic.. why? why? why? If satan doesnt exist?

[arty2000]

If this is an illusion...which science appears to support in its discovery of an atom being 99% space and with the experiments conducted on DNA and vibrations/energy/wavelengths etc etc.... even still we are perfect creations as we are... some people may not see it like that but i think thats due to their ego and their own sense of lack of identity/confidence and happiness. These experiments only go to prove the perfection in the complexity of our human bodies and minds and spirits. Further proving to me that we are 'created' by something far superior and clever than us.We are perfect...down to every last cell (illness/disease aside...as thats due to our own doing) even if we are illusory we are meant to 'experience' this world exactly how we see it! Mumbo jumbo such as astral projection/ hypnotism/ clairvoyance/ tarot/ astrology/ majic are all distractions there to decieve people into thinking there's 'more'...there is more but you're not meant to see it yet... if you were you'd see it- you wouldnt need to 'invoke it' or 'conjour it' it wouldnt be difficult to obtain...i dont see the point in this obsession with the discovery that we are all an 'illusion' or the world we see is an illusion'...what does that change? nothing... im still here- experiencing the world as it is..in all its splendour in all its glory and beauty... its perfection and i want to continue enjoying it untill i die and whatever is meant to happen to me will happen.  All this illusory stuff is distracting us away from the true facts that the governments are corrupted, they have an agenda, they are evil and are enslaving us and creating a world in which you'll all wish you were an illusion yet you still cant disappear in a puff of ether or vibrate yourself outta here can you? No..because we're physical beings :D Why do the elite worship Satan? Why does anyone who gets anywhere in status worship Satan or engage in Satanic practices? Why Satan? Why do they all engage in satanic worship at Bohemian Grove? why do all the politicians wave the satanic handsigns? why do the famous insist on flaunting satanic and dark symbols? why do dicks like marilyn manson brag about joining sick cults like the 'church of satan' with Anton LeVay? Why did Crowley invoke satanic shit? its all satanic.. why? why? why? If satan doesnt exist?right it does change nothing other than you see this for what it is..so you dont get bogged down w/fear,anger,resentment,death and all the other stuff.. truly enjoy the magnificence of this moment and all the other moments:) and just be whatever that is for you:)

[kblood]

Einstein is the one who first made me realise that the world is an illusion. Probably one of the reasons David Icke peaked my interest in the first place.

E=Mc2

Which claims matter is just another state of energy. Everything is energy. Made very much sense to me when I heard about this theory. Lots of research has been made on how much our voice and other sounds can affect water. Changes water in a way science would have claimed impossible, but it has been proven.

Einstein even said:
"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one."

http://rescomp.stanford.edu/~cheshire/EinsteinQuotes.html

Among many other clever things. What makes this illusion different from the other illusions we make? Well, we are all co-creators of this illusion. What most of us do not realise is how much freedom we have here. We are not limited to our 5 senses, although it seems we are to believe that, and many see it as the only truth. That only what the 5 senses can sense is real, even though there is so much more to this reality.

This illusion is as real as it get, at least in the physical way. To go beyond this illusion, I believe it cannot be done with any of the 5 senses, because they are only capable of sensing the illusion. Even blinding us from our other senses. Takes quite an effort to sense more than what our 5 senses sense.

Guess it might not make much sense, but that is what I believe.

[nectars]

I'll have to go back and read all the posts before I make any decent comments, but for now lets keep it pretty simple.

Where do you experience sight, hearing, feelings, touch & taste; and where are your dreams and imagination? In short, where do you experience the world?

[dreamweaver]

If this is an illusion...which science appears to support in its discovery of an atom being 99% space
Yes, it is 99% space, but whenever people say that I can't help thinking: "So what?"

Our solar system is probably 99.9999% space but that doesn't make it any less real.

If a block of steel feels solid at room temperature, that is because of the structure of its molecules. Those same molecules form a looser arrangement (i.e."become liquid") as the energy increases, then an even looser one (gas) and finally plasma. None of that is an "illusion".

I think what David is getting at is that our "five sense reality" is an illusion because it's pieced together inside our heads from incomplete information. That's fair enough.

[kblood]

Yes, it is 99% space, but whenever people say that I can't help thinking: "So what?"

Our solar system is probably 99.9999% space but that doesn't make it any less real.

If a block of steel feels solid at room temperature, that is because of the structure of its molecules. Those same molecules form a looser arrangement (i.e."become liquid") as the energy increases, then an even looser one (gas) and finally plasma. None of that is an "illusion".

I think what David is getting at is that our "five sense reality" is an illusion because it's pieced together inside our heads from incomplete information. That's fair enough.

But it does, since what we see as real really isnt that solid. What to make of it is that our reality is probably more in our heads than it is outside of it. Well in our minds at least, since our head is also just a projection.

It takes a huge leap of belief to actually change it, but what we percieve as real is quite fleeting. Matter could go back ot being pure energy and vice verse, in my experience just by belief alone. Still all of this is very well nested in our conciousness though.

[niall]

If this is an illusion...which science appears to support in its discovery of an atom being 99% space and with the experiments conducted on DNA and vibrations/energy/wavelengths etc etc.... even still we are perfect creations as we are... some people may not see it like that but i think thats due to their ego and their own sense of lack of identity/confidence and happiness. These experiments only go to prove the perfection in the complexity of our human bodies and minds and spirits. Further proving to me that we are 'created' by something far superior and clever than us.

We are perfect...down to every last cell (illness/disease aside...as thats due to our own doing) even if we are illusory we are meant to 'experience' this world exactly how we see it! Mumbo jumbo such as astral projection/ hypnotism/ clairvoyance/ tarot/ astrology/ majic are all distractions there to decieve people into thinking there's 'more'...there is more but you're not meant to see it yet... if you were you'd see it- you wouldnt need to 'invoke it' or 'conjour it' it wouldnt be difficult to obtain...i dont see the point in this obsession with the discovery that we are all an 'illusion' or the world we see is an illusion'...what does that change? nothing... im still here- experiencing the world as it is..in all its splendour in all its glory and beauty... its perfection and i want to continue enjoying it untill i die and whatever is meant to happen to me will happen.

All this illusory stuff is distracting us away from the true facts that the governments are corrupted, they have an agenda, they are evil and are enslaving us and creating a world in which you'll all wish you were an illusion yet you still cant disappear in a puff of ether or vibrate yourself outta here can you? No..because we're physical beings :D

Why do the elite worship Satan? Why does anyone who gets anywhere in status worship Satan or engage in Satanic practices? Why Satan? Why do they all engage in satanic worship at Bohemian Grove? why do all the politicians wave the satanic handsigns? why do the famous insist on flaunting satanic and dark symbols? why do dicks like marilyn manson brag about joining sick cults like the 'church of satan' with Anton LeVay? Why did Crowley invoke satanic shit? its all satanic.. why? why? why? If satan doesnt exist?

Thank you lottie! What an intelligent and informative post. The last paragraph really puts things in perspective. Unfortunately it seems the more all this illusion and matrix stuff, (which like i said in a previous post is nwo agenda) is pushed on people the more it will lead people away from what the ptb are really involved with and what they do.
It is possible for some of you to "wake up" a second time.
The ptb worship satan yet very few of you on here are prepared to acknowledge that. What are you afraid of? Like lottie said why do they worship him? The only illusion or matrix that those of you that doubt you are real are experiencing is the one created in your heads by the nwo/masons! You are helping the bad guys. Don't be fooled.

[schaff]

All this illusory stuff is distracting us away from the true facts that the governments are corrupted, they have an agenda, they are evil and are enslaving us and creating a world in which you'll all wish you were an illusion yet you still cant disappear in a puff of ether or vibrate yourself outta here can you? No..because we're physical beings :D

Why do the elite worship Satan? Why does anyone who gets anywhere in status worship Satan or engage in Satanic practices? Why Satan? Why do they all engage in satanic worship at Bohemian Grove? why do all the politicians wave the satanic handsigns? why do the famous insist on flaunting satanic and dark symbols? why do dicks like marilyn manson brag about joining sick cults like the 'church of satan' with Anton LeVay? Why did Crowley invoke satanic shit? its all satanic.. why? why? why? If satan doesnt exist?

Great post lottie,this is whats doing my head why cant people understand that if all of its an illusion why do they all worship Satan because they know hes real the evidence is in front of your very eyes but your too caught up in your illusionary world theory with your heads buried in the sand cause you are to scared and full of fear to acknowledge this is reality.Next time you see starving,maimed innocent children,women and men from war torn country's whove lost there whole family tell them its all an illusion and its all gonna be o.k. cause there part of infinite conciousness im sure theyll be very comforted by that

[dreamweaver]

But it does, since what we see as real really isnt that solid.
But that's based on a misconception on what a "solid" object actually is.

[bobhodge]

how do i cancel my account and delete all my posts in one go?

[dreamweaver]

how do i cancel my account and delete all my posts in one go?

???

If you're being serious and not making some point that is relevant to the thread but sailing over my head, cancelling accounts and deleting all the posts at once is usually an admin function on forums, which in this case will mean messaging Sean.

It may be possible for Forum Advisors to do it, but I suspect it's more likely that only Sean can.

[schaff]

Ask a moderator now get of this thread

[lakkimakki]

we are just lab rats , being tested by greater intelligence,
who created illusion ? Greater intelligence.

[ex_anser_ovo]

Touching something is like holding two magnets close to one another.
The atoms that make up things are still mostly empty space. A presence that interacts with other presences is made of lots of tiny behavioural patterns that shift around space to create polarity.

[tejas]

The drugs you take to numb pain work on your brain and nervous system. This is a medical thing and has nothing to do with programming. I mean you no offence joe911 but there are many other explanations than illusion, the matrix and programming. We are all real individuals living on a very real planet called earth. Sometimes it helps to question the "source" of these theories, which is all they are, just unprovable theories which are based on amongst other things hollywood propaganda. This is what the powers that be want you to believe which is why they make films like the matrix in the first place.

I guess you havent heard of the Hindu concept of maya.....

The matrix while being a simple hollywood film DOES actually have an underlying basis of philosophy behind it.

Gnosticisim, buddhism, Hinduism, Jainism, Kabbalah, all have something to contribute to this 'matrix' theory.

It is NOT simply science fiction at heart.

For all those not understanding what Icke means by Illusion

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_(Hinduism)

This is basically the same as the vedic concept of Maya.

[tejas]

Link?

Thats why they are looking for the Higgs-Boson Particle as we speak, the Particle that gives objects MASS.

[kblood]

Thank you lottie! What an intelligent and informative post. The last paragraph really puts things in perspective. Unfortunately it seems the more all this illusion and matrix stuff, (which like i said in a previous post is nwo agenda) is pushed on people the more it will lead people away from what the ptb are really involved with and what they do.
It is possible for some of you to "wake up" a second time.
The ptb worship satan yet very few of you on here are prepared to acknowledge that. What are you afraid of? Like lottie said why do they worship him? The only illusion or matrix that those of you that doubt you are real are experiencing is the one created in your heads by the nwo/masons! You are helping the bad guys. Don't be fooled.

Great post lottie,this is whats doing my head why cant people understand that if all of its an illusion why do they all worship Satan because they know hes real the evidence is in front of your very eyes but your too caught up in your illusionary world theory with your heads buried in the sand cause you are to scared and full of fear to acknowledge this is reality.Next time you see starving,maimed innocent children,women and men from war torn country's whove lost there whole family tell them its all an illusion and its all gonna be o.k. cause there part of infinite conciousness im sure theyll be very comforted by that

Seriously? You can excuse everything with that: ie.

Hollow Earth, its just ptb disinfo trying to distract you from what they are dong
Free Energy, same thing
Telepathy, telekinesis so on and so forth.

The thing is they might be doing everything to distract us from something else we shouldnt know about. They probably are doing alot of things to distract us. Problem is there is no way to know what is to distract us and what is the real deal, unless experiencing it or finding out for yourself.

I believe they are trying to have us focus on wars, sports, entertainment, media, new age disinfo they put out and lots of other stuff. I believe its to distract us from them and realising ourselves. Deeper understanding of yourself and looking into what their next scheme is, is probably not what they would want. Still they might not care, since they just want as many as possible to worship them and keep people focusing on those things, or mere survival if they can make it so.

Illusionary reality to take focus away from them? Seriously? How exactly does that take focus away for more than 30 min, maybe 2 hours? That really seems a weak argument for me. Also the evidence to show otherwise seems to date back a long time.

[infinite tea]

The illusion is seperation :-)

[arty2000]

I guess you havent heard of the Hindu concept of maya.....

The matrix while being a simple hollywood film DOES actually have an underlying basis of philosophy behind it.

Gnosticisim, buddhism, Hinduism, Jainism, Kabbalah, all have something to contribute to this 'matrix' theory.

It is NOT simply science fiction at heart.

For all those not understanding what Icke means by Illusion

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_(Hinduism)

This is basically the same as the vedic concept of Maya.

:):)

[arty2000]

If this is an illusion...which science appears to support in its discovery of an atom being 99% space and with the experiments conducted on DNA and vibrations/energy/wavelengths etc etc.... even still we are perfect creations as we are... some people may not see it like that but i think thats due to their ego and their own sense of lack of identity/confidence and happiness. These experiments only go to prove the perfection in the complexity of our human bodies and minds and spirits. Further proving to me that we are 'created' by something far superior and clever than us.

We are perfect...down to every last cell (illness/disease aside...as thats due to our own doing) even if we are illusory we are meant to 'experience' this world exactly how we see it! Mumbo jumbo such as astral projection/ hypnotism/ clairvoyance/ tarot/ astrology/ majic are all distractions there to decieve people into thinking there's 'more'...there is more but you're not meant to see it yet... if you were you'd see it- you wouldnt need to 'invoke it' or 'conjour it' it wouldnt be difficult to obtain...i dont see the point in this obsession with the discovery that we are all an 'illusion' or the world we see is an illusion'...what does that change? nothing... im still here- experiencing the world as it is..in all its splendour in all its glory and beauty... its perfection and i want to continue enjoying it untill i die and whatever is meant to happen to me will happen.

All this illusory stuff is distracting us away from the true facts that the governments are corrupted, they have an agenda, they are evil and are enslaving us and creating a world in which you'll all wish you were an illusion yet you still cant disappear in a puff of ether or vibrate yourself outta here can you? No..because we're physical beings :D

Why do the elite worship Satan? Why does anyone who gets anywhere in status worship Satan or engage in Satanic practices? Why Satan? Why do they all engage in satanic worship at Bohemian Grove? why do all the politicians wave the satanic handsigns? why do the famous insist on flaunting satanic and dark symbols? why do dicks like marilyn manson brag about joining sick cults like the 'church of satan' with Anton LeVay? Why did Crowley invoke satanic shit? its all satanic.. why? why? why? If satan doesnt exist?

or is it the very opposite and that tptb do not want us to realize the illusion and that we are eternal and see through the deception of substance/realness;)

[drael]

Where do you experience sight, hearing, feelings, touch & taste; and where are your dreams and imagination? In short, where do you experience the world?

In not sure if entirely understand your question. I would say the mind, from a strictly practical point of view. However, quite possibly conciousness is an illusion also, and matter itself, even all existence itself. "Place" is also a relative and subjective concept also. So, I would say, no where, because you dont exist to be a smart arse ;P

But more practically the mind. There is _information_, whether it has a practical mass existence or is merely probablistic, energetic, holographic etc. And in this information there is mind.

This is one of the cheif reasons why one can easily say that the world is illusion. Because it is all perceived by 100% subjective means - the mind.

A rock, without a mind, does not perceive itself as "a rock". In fact, it does not perceive at all. (unless we grossly misunderstand physics, which is possible). Anyway, any point of referance or point of veiw creates a host of assumptions, relative back to that POV.

[niall]

Great post lottie,this is whats doing my head why cant people understand that if all of its an illusion why do they all worship Satan because they know hes real the evidence is in front of your very eyes but your too caught up in your illusionary world theory with your heads buried in the sand cause you are to scared and full of fear to acknowledge this is reality.Next time you see starving,maimed innocent children,women and men from war torn country's whove lost there whole family tell them its all an illusion and its all gonna be o.k. cause there part of infinite conciousness im sure theyll be very comforted by that


Why do the elite worship Satan? Why does anyone who gets anywhere in status worship Satan or engage in Satanic practices? Why Satan? Why do they all engage in satanic worship at Bohemian Grove? why do all the politicians wave the satanic handsigns? why do the famous insist on flaunting satanic and dark symbols? why do dicks like marilyn manson brag about joining sick cults like the 'church of satan' with Anton LeVay? Why did Crowley invoke satanic shit? its all satanic.. why? why? why? If satan doesnt exist?

Thank you lottie! What an intelligent and informative post. The last paragraph really puts things in perspective. Unfortunately it seems the more all this illusion and matrix stuff, (which like i said in a previous post is nwo agenda) is pushed on people the more it will lead people away from what the ptb are really involved with and what they do.
It is possible for some of you to "wake up" a second time.
The ptb worship satan yet very few of you on here are prepared to acknowledge that. What are you afraid of? Like lottie said why do they worship him? The only illusion or matrix that those of you that doubt you are real are experiencing is the one created in your heads by the nwo/masons! You are helping the bad guys. Don't be fooled.

I notice as usual nobody attempts to comment on the fact the the ptb worship satan. Very odd. However, it doesn't surprise me.

[creepingdave]

Yeah maybe they do worship Satan, up to them, its their experience. Not doubting they are a negative force, but that may be their choice and who they are. No doubt they feed off the negative energy from big events like 9/11 and the World Wars, thats why they did them.

People arn't mentioning it because the majority of people believing in the 'illusion' are above the dualistic tendancy to seperate negativity(Satan) and positivity(God) as different entities. It seems most people ascribe to monistic ideals, at least in part to idealism or at least neutral monism.

[niall]

There is no maybe. They do worship satan. Even icke acknowledges that, even though its a bit odd for someone who doesn't believe in the bible to use what parts suit him . No one is above the truth. There is no illusion, just "delusion".:D
Actually when i think about it Ickes "and the truth shall set you free" is a phrase that Jesus says in the bible. Seems odd that he uses a book he doesn't believe in to further his career and status. Like i said before, i think he has done some great work exposing all the corruption, which is real, but he is influencing many with his way out there views on reality. Its about time that people started to use their own minds and not just follow someone blindly. Just because he gives you some facts it does not mean that everything he writes and says is fact. Its just his opinion. He is a mortal man, not God.:cool:

[creepingdave]

To be honest I personally haven't actually substantially read any of his books and only own 2 at the moment! :D

[miracles]

I'd imagine in that situation you'd be desperate and WANT the world to be an illusion, but it would still be real. I think a lot of people just want the illusion stuff to be real.:)



I agree and think that your opinion on illusion is quite an accurate one. Really people should change the word illusion and call it "deception". We are real and we exist here as human beings like we are meant to be. The thing that is wrong is the way the ptb are running the world for their own selfish gains. I think that they would want you to think the world is an illusion and if these so called researchers were to dig deep enough they would will find that the ptb/nwo were the original source of this illusion info.



It most definately is new age. Does anyone know if icke classes himself as new age?:rolleyes:



The only reason your using the word architect is because it is from a movie called the matrix. It was a film that was cleverly designed to lure people to this illusion way of thinking. Look how many people it has worked on!:D




Thats what troubles me about the use of the word architect. It is used by masons. There seems to be a lot of people on here that fall into the nwo/ptb/mason trap so easy.
And your spot on about the illusion being that satan don't exist. That has always been the biggest plan. He exists. Look at the world using "reality" and intuition as your guide, not an unprovable "illusion theory" that is straight from a movie script!:D
As for the bit about icke communicating, its just so obvious how someone is used by these entities! My advice to people is wake up to the real world and only then can you make a differece for both yourselves, loved ones and mankind as a whole. Do not fall into an obvious trap.
The matrix is a film.
Illusion is not what you are.
You are human beings living as your meant to be.
Enjoy your life as its real.

Great stuff:)

[miracles]

Proof please!

And as for appreciating whether they are alive, I know that everything refered to by the subjective person is illusion, its the nature of being subjective, but I revel in that subjectivity and accept it.

To be a _subject_ in this world, and to experience, is to be subjective and experience illusion. I can prove that scientifically:from neurobiology and perception to physics & logically.

People enjoy living because of subjectivity and illusion, not despite it. I mean why wake up in the morning, why eat, why do anything? Certainly not because of something "objective" as if such existed.

This "reality" position so far, including the OP is full of empty assertion.

You want proof that you are real and alive you must be joking mate.

Stick a pin into your thumb, if it doesnt hurt and or you dont bleed..then I admitt your not real. If it does, then there's your poof, also try to stop breathing, that should convince you that you are a living breathing being. Another one to try if your not convinced, stop eating and drinking.

If any of these experiments don't convince you, then enjoy your delusion

[tejas]

I notice as usual nobody attempts to comment on the fact the the ptb worship satan. Very odd. However, it doesn't surprise me.

They dont worship satan, Ask DarkEternal, The illumanati or brotherhood have a system of belief much more ancient then that.

Satanism is how christians describe it, and Icke uses that term because its the closest thing that we as westerners can explain due to our belief system.

Now did you READ MY post?

[drael]

You want proof that you are real and alive you must be joking mate.

Stick a pin into your thumb, if it doesnt hurt and or you dont bleed..then I admitt your not real. If it does, then there's your poof, also try to stop breathing, that should convince you that you are a living breathing being. Another one to try if your not convinced, stop eating and drinking.

If any of these experiments don't convince you, then enjoy your delusion

1) You experience pain.

+

2) you breathe

=

You are real.

You my freind, are an emerging philsopher. Your reason is so structured, i have trouble holding my sides :P

[logic unfolded]

My current belief (and I say belief because I can't be sure about the validity of it) is that the universe is god. But I don't like the word god, because of the religious connotations, especially the stereotypical christian god. So I won't be using the word god if possible

The universe, or 'all that is' or 'all that exists' (whether as physical matter or anything and everything else besides physical matter, including what we can't perceive, understand or comprehend yet, including possible other universes, possibly parallel universes etc.) is presumed to have had a beginning. Which most people believe is the big bang...

What perplexes me is how can there be something, and so so much, from nothing? How can there even be a beginning? What was before the big bang? Nothingness? Surely there had to be something, some space or time for the event to occur in, in which case where did that come from? "God" I hear many religious people say. Well then where did God come from? "Oh God has just always been" they respond.

Well I'll say that if some God is somehow the exception to the rule of not needing a creator to create him/her/it - then why bring God into the equation at all. Why can't it be "The universe has always been" ?

I find it hard to believe personally that the entire complexities of the universe came from nothingness. So instead I gravitate towards believing the universe has no time as we understand it. It has no beginning, it just is. This obviously is also a hard concept to understand... but it resonates with me.

I tend to be a bit spiritual in my beliefs, but again I'm not fond of that word or the word spirit because of its religion connotations. I believe that 'all that is' or the universe, is 'consciousness'. And each physical object (or what appears solid and physical to us) as well as each sentient being on this planet (and highly likely in my opinion, on many many other planets out there somewhere, some less evolved some more evolved) is an expression of the universe, or consciousness.

I think that consciousness forms physical matter, because I don't see how it could be the other way around. So what we see as ourselves, our houses, our towns, the world, the universe etc. are all physical expressions of consciousness, or 'all that is'.

So we form our physical reality in order to have a means of expression. A place to explore/learn/develop/create and evolve. All these characteristics I associate with consciousness. Things don't stay the same, things change, planets and stars have cycles and births and deaths so to speak. And humans and other animals evolve and don't stay the same etc. It seems to me that the universe could be compared in a way, to a galactic super computer who's program is to experience everything there is to experience.

That seems like a logical thing to want to do. As a self aware entity on this planet I myself, a conscious being, wish to experience new things/see new places/feel new feelings etc. I also think of the analogy of a computer becoming self aware. It thinks there for it is. But then what? What to do for all eternity? Create (and destroy), learn, experience, becoming fuller and more evolved, surely? Running simulations/programs in order to facilitate this evolution of consciousness seems necessary.

So, basically I think that is what the universe, or 'consciousness' is doing. It has created a plain where it can express itself and learn and evolve, and we are part of that. We are all a part of some grand creative expression which is experiencing all that can be experienced, in order to learn/evolve. In a sense I think we are fragmented from this universal consciousness, as we live out our lives here on earth, and will return to the source when we leave this plain of existence.

I imagine a diamond which is infinitely multifaceted. And each of us is currently facing/looking outwards, unaware (at the moment, because we've chosen to forget temporarily) of the whole diamond we are a part of. You might have guessed by now I believe in life after death. Returning to the source etc.

So in conclusion, I think we are fragments of 'all that is', currently focused in this time and space as part of a universal 'program' the purpose of which is to learn/evolve and experience all there is to experience. The earth is a school, and we are all pupils. And as Bill Hicks said: "Remember... It's just a ride."

[creepingdave]

You want proof that you are real and alive you must be joking mate.

Stick a pin into your thumb, if it doesnt hurt and or you dont bleed..then I admitt your not real. If it does, then there's your poof, also try to stop breathing, that should convince you that you are a living breathing being. Another one to try if your not convinced, stop eating and drinking.

If any of these experiments don't convince you, then enjoy your delusion

Chi Energy Amazing Footage - YouTube

I'd like to see the physicalists interpretation of people like this. (sorry don't know how to embed)

[white knight]

If everything is an illusion then who created the illusion. I dont know about anybody else but everything i touch smell feel seems real enough to me.Also makes me wonder about the we live in a matrix theory it seems a bit of a sci fi ideology to me and hasn't the idea of the matrix just come from a film just wanna see where everyone stands on this and how they come to there conclusion.

Einstein once said, "everything is relative".

What he meant was that the subject can only view their world by the what they believe to be real and fake. If the ability to touch, smell and feel is enough to convince you that you are real, then you are real. Simple as that.

This also begs the question, can you have reality without illusion?...

In essence, there is no difference between illusion and reality, they are one and the same (part of Oneness), but we can use our minds to put things into "perspective" so to speak. ;)

For those that question whether we live in a Matrix, ask yourself this...

Are spirits/ghosts real or just an illusion created by your mind?...do they consider themselves spirits or are they real in their own world?

[niall]

"Oneness" is just another theory that fits the agenda of people who are against religion. There is no oneness as we are all individuals.

[arty2000]

1) You experience pain.

+

2) you breathe

=

You are real.

You my freind, are an emerging philsopher. Your reason is so structured, i have trouble holding my sides :P

:):) nice

[niall]

They dont worship satan, Ask DarkEternal, The illumanati or brotherhood have a system of belief much more ancient then that.

Satanism is how christians describe it, and Icke uses that term because its the closest thing that we as westerners can explain due to our belief system.

Now did you READ MY post?

They do worship satan. Your denial of it fits there agenda nicely. All you are achieving is that you are defending what they get up to. Icke uses that term as he also knows it to be true. Since his "WOGAN" experience he has done everything he can possible do to deny the existence of God purely because he feels ashamed/embarrased of what he said. The man had no faith and fell away at the first hurdle showing that he is weak and easily turned. You have to remember the size of the u-turn he has done since then. His pride and ego were hurt, but he still wanted to carry on in this field of huge theory. I tend to skip posts that use crowleys words (your signature) as he to was a satanist and his work has convinced many others to be so to. Icke has spilled the beans on his work (crowley) and revealed just how much of an influence he has had on the ptb/nwo. Icke admits to channelling entities whom he has no idea where they come from and who they represent. Seems fairly obvious to me. These things use you for there own gain. So what they did was allow him the facts about all the corruption and intentions of the nwo and who is involved so that when he writes about illusion/oneness/matrix people will believe him because of his nwo stuff. He is clearly being used to lead people away from realising that they are human beings that exist on earth.
Before anyone feels the need to defend ickes ego for him remember i think he has done fantastic work exposing the nwo etc. Trying to convince others that they are not really here but in a matrix etc is pure fantasy!:D

[seanx]

Originally Posted by lottie

If this is an illusion...which science appears to support in its discovery of an atom being 99% space and with the experiments conducted on DNA and vibrations/energy/wavelengths etc etc.... even still we are perfect creations as we are... some people may not see it like that but i think thats due to their ego and their own sense of lack of identity/confidence and happiness. These experiments only go to prove the perfection in the complexity of our human bodies and minds and spirits.

I agree


Further proving to me that we are 'created' by something far superior and clever than us.

No, not necessary.

By believing 'somebody' created you, you are creating a separation,
a division between 'you' and this 'being' who 'created' you.

This is the basis of all the Elite Matrix religions like
Christianity.

But as Icke experiences and writes about in Tales of the time loop,
we are the creator.

Not your ego self or what you regard as your 'everyday self ',
but beneath all your thoughts, feelings, sensations, memories, lies a
STATE OF CONSCIOUSNESS ....INFINITE CONSCIOUSNESS.....
WHICH YOU ARE.

AND this Consciousness is experiencing itself in billions and billions
of different ways IN BILLIONS OF DIFFERENT DIMENSIONS.


AND in this moment of time, this consciouness is now manifesting itself
as the present 'you.

But although, this is real, it's also not real.

It' an illusion in the sense that in, say a thousand years or 100 thousand
years time, you'll take completely different forms....

But at the core of your being you are this INfinite Consciousness, the
Creator



We are perfect...down to every last cell (illness/disease aside...as thats due to our own doing) even if we are illusory we are meant to 'experience' this world exactly how we see it!

Exactly.

That's the nature of the game. The agreement we made. To regard
this world as very very real, when in fact it's more of a virtual reality.

So it's unreal....yet from our perspective, very, very real.

Mumbo jumbo such as astral projection/ hypnotism/ clairvoyance/ tarot/ astrology/ majic are all distractions there to decieve people into thinking there's 'more'...there is more but you're not meant to see it yet... if you were you'd see it- you wouldnt need to 'invoke it' or 'conjour it' it wouldnt be difficult to obtain...

Totally disagree.

Astral projection? and hypnotism ? Mumbo jumbo ??

I find it interesting that it was the church who banned astral
projection and all forms of communication with the so-called death.

This of course is to CREATE FEAR.

I and my armies can only threaten you with death if you are
afraid of death.

But if you know there is no death, then how can I TERRORIZE
you? Control you?

Also, if a loved one of yours died, wouldn't your sadness, your
heart -break instantly disappear if someone took you on a astral
journey and you could meet them again- and TALK to them!!

Wouldn't your heart be full of joy at the extraordianry
MULTI-DIMENSIONAL nature of reality.

And all your fear about life would disappear.


Hypnotism ? Mumbo jumbo

Last week, I had to bring a young kid to hosptal after he cut
his hand playing football .

The cut was bad - and the little lad was frightened as he knew it
would need stiches. It was a needdle and thread job.

Yet, the young woman doctor did an amazing thing. She simply
used a gentle form of Hypnotism on the lad to reframe what
she was going to do....and the lad actually found the whole
thing very easy and enjoyable.

I don't think that is mumbo jumbo.


i dont see the point in this obsession with the discovery that we are all an 'illusion' or the world we see is an illusion'...what does that change? nothing... im still here- experiencing the world as it is..in all its splendour in all its glory and beauty... its perfection and i want to continue enjoying it untill i die and whatever is meant to happen to me will happen.

It means EVERYTHING.

As Icke says when you understand the true nature of reality as the
Elite do, only then can you topple their control .

All this illusory stuff is distracting us away from the true facts that the governments are corrupted, they have an agenda, they are evil and are enslaving us and creating a world in which you'll all wish you were an illusion yet you still cant disappear in a puff of ether or vibrate yourself outta here can you? No..because we're physical beings

Why have the Elite ALL the power.

bECAUSE they know how to control and manipulate reality. It always
comes back to who understand the NATURE of reality.

And how to CONTROL people's BELIEF systems. That's why the
Elite create all these religions.


Why do the elite worship Satan? Why does anyone who gets anywhere in status worship Satan or engage in Satanic practices? Why Satan? Why do they all engage in satanic worship at Bohemian Grove? why do all the politicians wave the satanic handsigns? why do the famous insist on flaunting satanic and dark symbols? why do dicks like marilyn manson brag about joining sick cults like the 'church of satan' with Anton LeVay? Why did Crowley invoke satanic shit? its all satanic.. why? why? why? If satan doesnt exist?


It's not Satan they worship but CONTROL. POWER.

All their rituals are designed to STEAL other people's energy
and lifeforce.

They feed on these energies. They are masters of energy. OF
magnetism.

Don't forget that fear is a mighty powerful energy. These guys
are addicted to it. When a person is in a state of extreme fear,
the body release cheimicals that these people are addicted to.

They need this energy like a heroin addict does.

Yes, Satan exists but he is a thoughtform. Yes, today, this is an
extremely powerful thought entity ....and on the astral and other
dimensions a very real entity.

bUT it is an entity created from ALL our fears and false beliefs.

It's real.....but not real.

if we stop giving it energy and belief , it will fade and die
into the nothingness.

Because at the end of the day, we are nothing but infinite consciousness.

[seanx]

Niall wrote|;Since his "WOGAN" experience he has done everything he can possible do to deny the existence of God purely because he feels ashamed/embarrased of what he sai

You write utter garbage, my friend.

Icke does not deny the existence of God , but the fake god of the Matrix religions like cHRISITANITY.

[niall]

Its very very simple. Satan exists but the greatest trick he ever did was convince people that he doesn't therefore allowing delusional ramblings about our existence and origins. The ptb worship satan because they want power and that is how they get it. They are satanists worshipping satan. Covering it up on their behalf is wrong and incredibly dangerous.

[niall]

Niall wrote|;

You write utter garbage, my friend.

Icke does not deny the existence of God , but the fake god of the Matrix religions like cHRISITANITY.

The Green Party distanced itself from him in 1991 after he announced that he was "the son of God," and a "channel for the Christ spirit."

http://www.book-of-thoth.com/thebook/index.php/David_Icke

Delusional ramblings and ridiculous comments about things feeding off energy is just pure fantasy. The facts are that these people want to scare you so you turn to them (nwo) for their help. I agree with ickes problem reaction solution. They do not physically feed off you! :D
There is no matrix apart from the film that starred keanu reeves.
We are not infinite consciousness there is no such thing. Your an individual and deep down you know that.;)

[seanx]

Niall WROTE:
His pride and ego were hurt, but he still wanted to carry on in this field of huge theory. I tend to skip posts that use crowleys words (your signature) as he to was a satanist and his work has convinced many others to be so to. Icke has spilled the beans on his work (crowley) and revealed just how much of an influence he has had on the ptb/nwo. Icke admits to channelling entities whom he has no idea where they come from and who they represent. Seems fairly obvious to me. These things use you for there own gain. So what they did was allow him the facts about all the corruption and intentions of the nwo and who is involved so that when he writes about illusion/oneness/matrix people will believe him because of his nwo stuff. He is clearly being used to lead people away from realising that they are human beings that exist on earth.Before anyone feels the need to defend ickes ego for him remember i think he has done fantastic work exposing the nwo etc. Trying to convince others that they are not really here but in a matrix etc is pure fantasy


More complete rubbish.

What's the bet that you are a fundamentalist Chrisitan?

[element]

Superb post Seanx. (nr. 141)

The main difference in the ''mumbo jumbo'' and the organised religions is that one wants to directly know and experience the ''supernatural'', and the other tells you you have to obey and believe, and just wait for whatever happens.

Things are only fearful when we have fear, our mind creates. I think Satan could very well be real, as a collective energy of fear and hate..

What the elite believe, Satan or not, I don't know. But I do know what they want to teach the people. And that is identification with body and mind. They have all the tools at their disposal (consumerism, materialism, media, fear religions) to keep us trapped in it. Those tools are all perfect to make the people think they are powerless and let them seek for some temporary happiness.

[niall]

Niall WROTE:



More complete rubbish.

What's the bet that you are a fundamentalist Chrisitan?

Not a fundamentalist christian at all. You seem a bit afraid of religion though. Becareful cause if your scared beings will feed off your negative energy!:D

Whats the bet your an icke fundamentalist!:D

[seanx]

There is no matrix apart from the film that starred keanu reeves.

More garbage.

icke only used this film as an anology ......

You obviously haven't read it or you would know that.

tHOUGH, I'd guess most of your reading begins and ends with the
'Bible', the Elite's mind control training manual!!

[niall]

More garbage.

icke only used this film as an anology ......

You obviously haven't read it or you would know that.

tHOUGH, I'd guess most of your reading begins and ends with the
'Bible'. the Elite's mind control trainign manual!!

I think you'll find a lot of the stuff icke writes oneness/matrix/infinite consciouness is straight from the elite training manual!:D:D

Icke said "that the makers of "The Matrix" were remarkably close to the truth, so the only reason I can't put my hand through a wall is because I'm conditioned to believe that the wall is solid."

Here's a question for the matrix believers.
How does that theory account for bumping into things accidentally? When someone came up behind me and hit me around the head with a stick, i didn't know the stick was even there, never mind being under any delusions about its existential properties. It didn't pass through me nor I through it, it hit me, and it hurt, because it was a stick and sticks are hard.:D

[seanx]

Niall wrote:
Not a fundamentalist christian at all. You seem a bit afraid of religion though. Becareful cause if your scared beings will feed off your negative energy!

Whats the bet your an icke fundamentalist

Since this is icke's forum, of course people come here to discuss
his ideas.

But unlike your religion, we don't have gurus or leaders here to
'save' us.

if I wanted any of your christian fundamenatalism, I'd go to
their sites.

But of course you are a christan fundamentalist of one sort or other.

It's obvious from your posts that you are totally programmed into
their belief systems.

That's why ickes ideas terrify you.

[niall]

Thats the biggest load of bollocks anyone has said to me for a while!:D
I respect a lot of ickes work and have repeatedly said so. Maybe your matrix programme is breaking:D
Also i fear nothing as i know i don't have to. I'm a real human being living in the real world, much like you.
There is no need in being angry or nasty to me as that is non productive and very, very negative.

[seanx]

Element wrote:

The main difference in the ''mumbo jumbo'' and the organised religions is that one wants to directly know and experience the ''supernatural'', and the other tells you you have to obey and believe, and just wait for whatever happens.

Things are only fearful when we have fear, our mind creates. I think Satan could very well be real, as a collective energy of fear and hate..

What the elite believe, Satan or not, I don't know. But I do know what they want to teach the people. And that is identification with body and mind. They have all the tools at their disposal (consumerism, materialism, media, fear religions) to keep us trapped in it. Those tools are all perfect to make the people think they are powerless and let them seek for some temporary happiness.

I agree totally, mate

[seanx]

Niall wrote:
I think you'll find a lot of the stuff icke writes oneness/matrix/infinite consciouness is straight from the elite training manual!

Well that's your opinion. Entitled to it. As it is what every one of you fundamentalists believe.


Icke said "that the makers of "The Matrix" were remarkably close to the truth, so the only reason I can't put my hand through a wall is because I'm conditioned to believe that the wall is solid."


Yes, mate it is an anology. Using an example to explain a
difficult concept !!


Here's a question for the matrix believers.
How does that theory account for bumping into things accidentally? When someone came up behind me and hit me around the head with a stick, i didn't know the stick was even there, never mind being under any delusions about its existential properties. It didn't pass through me nor I through it, it hit me, and it hurt, because it was a stick and sticks are hard

The stick will hurt your back because this is the nature of
reality most of us subcribe to.

But this is not to say it is the only reality that is possible. If you
want to know more - read icke or greg bandon's books.

OPEN your mind for a little while to new ideas.

[seanx]

Thats the biggest load of bollocks anyone has said to me for a while!
I respect a lot of ickes work and have repeatedly said so. Maybe your matrix programme is breaking
Also i fear nothing as i know i don't have to. I'm a real human being living in the real world, much like you.
There is no need in being angry or nasty to me as that is non productive and very, very negative.


Who is being nasty?

I just think what you wrote is complete garbage.

it is straight from the ideas that the matrrix religions have been
peddling to humanity for centuries.

The same old control. The same old nonsense

[niall]

There is no real matrix. Its just a film. Didn't you know that?:D
You are real and live in a real world. Its unfortunately being controlled by very evil people. Pretending the world is an illusion is exactly what the elite want you to think.:D Do not fear the real world.

[forestgrump]

I don't think that anything Icke has written repudiates the idea of God.

The general theme seems to be that the physical world is an illusion that is created to trap and grind down our spirit. You come to identify yourself with your body and become a slave to its desires and the desires of the material world rather than rising above it all in the search for redemption.

The answers to the questions you need are harder to find because a rich cabal of 'satanists' have concealed the knowledge needed and exert their own power through manipulation of the masses via mind control techniques varying from advertising and the creation of the consumer society to HAARP.

What is so hard to understand about this? Some of you seem to be arguing from a Christian point of view and I can't see how what Icke says is much different from what is laid out in the Gospels. All the extra crap, mortal sin and the like was added by various church hierarchies. I may give the gospels some credit for relating Jesus' teachings (bearing in mind that those in the Bible were written two hundred years or so after Christ died) but I don't believe that the Pope is infallible or that any other religious leader has anymore of a direct link to God (whatever God is) than I do.

When Icke says that the world is an illusion he doesn't seem to be saying that nothing is 'real'. Rather that we shouldn't allow the material world to (or those that wield the power in it) to distract (or enslave) us from the things that really matter.

As it happens, physics seems to be leaning towards the idea that the earth maybe a hologram. Certainly the idea of different dimensions has a strong following. This does not detract from your spiritual quest. We all still experience the reality of where we are. Science and religion are not mutually exclusive.

Also, if I remember correctly, Icke did not proclaim to be the Son of God exclusively. He said something along the lines of, 'We all have the power to be Gods in us'. To me that ties in with 'Man created in the image of God', 'Jesus as the Son of Man' and all the rest of it.

Personally I am not sure if Jesus was/is the Son of God in the literal sense or not but that's just me.

[arty2000]

There is no real matrix. Its just a film. Didn't you know that?:D
You are real and live in a real world. Its unfortunately being controlled by very evil people. Pretending the world is an illusion is exactly what the elite want you to think.:D Do not fear the real world.

and dont fear the illusion:D

[niall]

But this is not to say it is the only reality that is possible. If you
want to know more - read icke or greg bandon's books.
OPEN your mind for a little while to new ideas.

If you bothered to read the whole thread you'll notice that i have read "the biggest secret, the global conspiracy, and the truth shall set you free (a phrase stolen from the bible), and children of the matrix.
That means i make informed decisions about the things i discuss.:D

[niall]

and dont fear the illusion:D
I don't;) There is no illusion to fear as there isn't one. Only delusion:D

[niall]

You want proof that you are real and alive you must be joking mate.

Stick a pin into your thumb, if it doesnt hurt and or you dont bleed..then I admitt your not real. If it does, then there's your poof, also try to stop breathing, that should convince you that you are a living breathing being. Another one to try if your not convinced, stop eating and drinking.

If any of these experiments don't convince you, then enjoy your delusion

Great post miracles. I like it when people use common sense.:D

[forestgrump]

Icke said "that the makers of "The Matrix" were remarkably close to the truth, so the only reason I can't put my hand through a wall is because I'm conditioned to believe that the wall is solid."

Here's a question for the matrix believers.
How does that theory account for bumping into things accidentally? When someone came up behind me and hit me around the head with a stick, i didn't know the stick was even there, never mind being under any delusions about its existential properties. It didn't pass through me nor I through it, it hit me, and it hurt, because it was a stick and sticks are hard.:D

I would be inclined to say that since your 'physical' body vibrates at a similar density that your physical body could not project itself through a wall. Your conscious could though.

However, there is the story of the woman who was hypnotised not to be able to see her husband or someone and so could see through him as if he did not exist. All second hand I know but even expert practicioners of hypnosis don;t claim to know how it works, just that it does. I'd reference Derren Brown's recent book here.

Most physics is beyond me but the fact that it has been proven that the mere observation of an experiment at particle level can change results says to me that a physical projection may not necessarily be beyond the realms of possibility.

[niall]

Interesting story, yet the woman was hypnotised thats why she couldn't see. I attended a course on hynotheray some years ago and it was fascinating but quite eerie. I wasn't scared though:D

Derren browns choice of book cover indicates where he feels his "power" comes from.

http://www.andy-coates.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/derren-brown-book.jpg

:D;)

[whatistruth]

I used to think they worshipped satan aswell, or lucifer, whatever name you want to give to it.
But that's all a show, fun for the lower level minions, their real religion is sacred geometry and numerology, basically atheists.



Even the church of satan doesn't believe in a spiritual devil.

"Satanists within the Church of Satan adhere to these as guidelines on how to live. However, it is important to remember that Satanists generally do not view the Satanic sins, statements, and rules of the earth as things that one must go out of their way to do. The Satanist ideally sees these things as truisms and how they naturally live their lives, as opposed to a Christian or Jew, who would strive to follow the words of Christ or the mitzvot, respectively."

Church of Satan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




There is no 'higher plane' that your going to when you die, the devil isnt going to 'get you' for 'sinning' on earth.
Both these christian and new age beliefs are baseless nonsense to control you.
The real reality no one wants to admit is one day they won't exist.
That's why the ancient shamams conducted rituals with drugs because they thought hallucinations were something 'spiritual'.
That's why the babalonians made up their own gods.
That's why the judeo christian religions were made up (for control too).
And that's why you're trying to justify absurdities with 20's century pseudo science.

[forestgrump]

Interesting story, yet the woman was hypnotised thats why she couldn't see. I attended a course on hynotheray some years ago and it was fascinating but quite eerie. I wasn't scared though:D

Derren browns choice of book cover indicates where he feels his "power" comes from.

http://www.andy-coates.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/derren-brown-book.jpg

:D;)

Picked the story up from an Icke book or video. The thing is that if it is true, it indicates that what our brain interprets is easily manipulated.

Derren Brown had a show in which he engaged an advertising company to come up with an advertising campaign for his 'company'. He had them picked up by limo and chauffered to his 'offices'. After they had finished their brainstorm and had presented their idea he uncovered his own white board which more or less mirrored theirs. He explained that during the limo ride they had been driven along a specific route along which various props had been placed to influence their thoughts. I remember reading that the advertising company in question actually sued to prevent the episode being aired but they lost the case.

If hypnosis can allow a woman to literally see through someone what does that say about how the brain interprets matter?

[seanx]

Niall wrote:

If you bothered to read the whole thread you'll notice that i have read "the biggest secret, the global conspiracy, and the truth shall set you free (a phrase stolen from the bible), and children of the matrix.
That means i make informed decisions about the things i discuss

It means nothing of the sort, I'm afraid.

You are talking about the matrix and Icke's ideas on the
nature of reality and you haven't bother to read his two
books that deal exclusivley with these ideas, Tales of the time loop
and Infinite love

So how you can criticize these ideas when you know nothing
about them, is a mystery to me.

But here is a wild guess about you. You are a christian who
believes we are all doomed and evil and at the mercy of big
bad Satan - and the only man who can SAVE us is this guy Jesus.

And the only thing we have to do is 'obey' him ( i.e the church)
and we'll be saved!

And if we do that, we'll all go to Heaven, which is the only other
place that is 'real' apart from this earth.

[forestgrump]

I used to think they worshipped satan aswell, or lucifer, whatever name you want to give to it.
But that's all a show, fun for the lower level minions, their real religion is sacred geometry and numerology, basically atheists.


I would say that its clear that maths is at the root of everything that exists in the universe and is probably the key to unlocking it. Where did the universe and its mathematical and physical rules come from? Who initiated the first correct mathematical sequence or created the first symbol?

[niall]

Niall wrote:



It means nothing of the sort, I'm afraid.

You are talking about the matrix and Icke's ideas on the
nature of reality and you haven't bother to read his two
books that deal exclusivley with these ideas, Tales of the time loop
and Infinite love

So how you can criticize these ideas when you know nothing
about them, is a mystery to me.

But here is a wild guess about you. You are a christian who
believes we are all doomed and evil and at the mercy of big
bad Satan - and the only man who can SAVE us is this guy Jesus.

And the only thing we have to do is 'obey' him ( i.e the church)
and we'll be saved!

And if we do that, we'll all go to Heaven, which is the only other
place that is 'real' apart from this earth.

You sound like an angry person, whom seems to have a lot of aggression in him. I see no display of infinite love from you. Maybe you need to reread the books you have quoted.:D You don't seem like i good advert for ickes work if your attitude is anything to go by.;)

[hirschfelder]

Here's a good book, written from a moderate mainstream perspective, for those still struggling with the illusion theory. I just finished it yesterday

Atom: Amazon.co.uk: Jim Al-Khalili, Piers Bizony: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41CRGU4VWdL.@@AMEPARAM@@41CRGU4VWdL

https://www.bibdsl.co.uk/imagegallery2/bds/200818/9781840468731.JPG

There's also a 3 part TV series by the BBC of the same name, for those who don't read

It's fairly 'pop', middle brow stuff, considering the complicated subject matter. It won't answer the question someone asked further up, "How can the world be an illusion if I go to prison for killing someone?", but it's a good, broad introduction to quantum physics

[forestgrump]

Here's a good book, written from a moderate mainstream perspective, for those still struggling with the illusion theory. I just finished it yesterday

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Atom-Jim-Al-Khalili/dp/1840468009

https://www.bibdsl.co.uk/imagegallery2/bds/200818/9781840468731.JPG



Thanks for that. Sounds about my level when it comes to that subject.

[niall]

I'm always a bit wary of people who receive an award from the queen like the author Jim Al-Khalili (obe). Is the book just based on theory? (serious question no offence meant)?

[forestgrump]

I'm always a bit wary of people who receive an award from the queen like the author Jim Al-Khalili (obe). Is the book just based on theory? (serious question no offence meant)?

Most of cutting edge physics is based on theory. A lot of what was initially theory has proved incredibly useful since though.

[hirschfelder]

I'm always a bit wary of people who receive an award from the queen like the author Jim Al-Khalili (obe). Is the book just based on theory? (serious question no offence meant)?

Of course not. It's based on theory, experimental data and the consensus of the Copenhagen Interpretation

It's not a woo book at all, and it treats Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle and Bohr's notion of complementarity quite soberly. But there's no getting away from the madness of this stuff and it makes up a fair old wodge of the book

[niall]

Of course not. It's based on theory, experimental data and the consensus of the Copenhagen Interpretation

It's not a woo book at all, and it treats Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle and Bohr's notion of complementarity quite soberly. But there's no getting away from the madness of this stuff and it makes up a fair old wodge of the book

Thanks for your reply.:)

[seanx]

Niall wrote:

You sound like an angry person, whom seems to have a lot of aggression in him. I see no display of infinite love from you. Maybe you need to reread the books you have quoted. You don't seem like i good advert for ickes work if your attitude is anything to go by

I'm not here to give infinite love.

That's for the matrix Chrisitans. etc

What I always find amazing is good folk like yourself coming on
here telling us that icke's ideas about the mATRIX and the nature
of reality are rubbish - and when we challenge you and DEBATE
THEM, you get all annoyed and accuse people of being nasty to you.

Yet you seem to think its ok to come on here and mock Icke's ideas
without even reading his books on these subjects.


This is a forum, mate.
Noithing personal.

But a forum is a place where ideas are debated, attacked
and torn apart.

And if ideas are true, this process should be good for them!.

But you are feeling angry and annoyed now and projecting it
onto me, because NOW we are challenging your PROGRAMMED
BELIEFS.

Not just Ickes.

The anger is yours, my friend

[niall]

You are a terrible judge of character sean x. I have not been angry at all. I baffled as to how you have come to that conclusion. Nothing i have read on here would ever annoy me. Learn to be calm. I'm very happy and enjoy taking part in the debates.:D
I know you don't like me, but i like you cause i find you very interesting.
Just out of curiosity sean x as you have stated that your not on here to give infinite love, do you believe in it? If yes then surely you should practice it:D
Also the books i've read (look at my previous posts) do talk about ickes oneness/infinite love/matrix THEORIES. Therefore i'm well versed on it and able to come to my own decisions.;)

[whatistruth]

I'm always a bit wary of people who receive an award from the queen like the author Jim Al-Khalili (obe). Is the book just based on theory? (serious question no offence meant)?



Not to legitimise a book I know nothing about, but loads of people recieve OBE's, its not a big thing, the queen doesnt pick who gets them.
My grandad got one.
Thousands of people go to the palace to get em, its not a nobel prize.

[forestgrump]

I attended a course on hynotheray some years ago and it was fascinating but quite eerie. I wasn't scared though:D


That must have been interesting. Would you mind giving me a brief summary of your course? Just asking, I know it may be a schlep to type out.

[niall]

Not to legitimise a book I know nothing about, but loads of people recieve OBE's, its not a big thing, the queen doesnt pick who gets them.
My grandad got one.
Thousands of people go to the palace to get em, its not a nobel prize.

Yeah i get your point. But this guy has written a potentially influential book on a subject that a lot of people are using to say we are not real and live in a matrix etc.
Besides that isn't the queen a reptilian?:D

[forestgrump]

its not a big thing.......My grandad got one.


Its something though. Congrats to Grandad! Not everybody gets that.

[forestgrump]

Yeah i get your point. But this guy has written a potentially influential book on a subject that a lot of people are using to say we are not real and live in a matrix etc.
Besides that isn't the queen a reptilian?:D

No, Niall! Matrix and 'Not Real' do not equal the same thing. I'm beginning to think you're just having fun winding us up.

[element]

Not a fundamentalist christian at all. You seem a bit afraid of religion though. Becareful cause if your scared beings will feed off your negative energy!:D

Whats the bet your an icke fundamentalist!:D
But you are a Christian. This is fact.
That's why you have trouble with this thread.:)

Ofc. you like some work of Icke, the conspiracy fits in well with ''the tricks of the devil'' and the rest is all stuff to ''lead ya astray.'' ;)

[niall]

That must have been interesting. Would you mind giving me a brief summary of your course? Just asking, I know it may be a schlep to type out.

Very funny:D I must admit that the above is a lie! I never attended a hyhotheray course at all! It was of course a hypnotherapy course.:D
From what i can recall the 1st day consisted of us all (12 people) sitting in an arrangement of chairs that were in a semi circle whilst the guy teaching us asked us all to introduce ourselves and explain why we were there, to which i answered that i was interested in using it to help others, which was a complete lie as i was more interested in making people think that they were wild animals and that they were naked etc!:D I can't remember what his name was but remember me and my mate couldn't stop starring as he was a dead ringer for richard gere which we found funny. After asking us all if any of us were afraid of water he used a hypnotic induction on us where we were supposed to be at the seaside. Then he split us into pairs and asked us to try and hypnotise the stranger he put us with. He then explained to us all about tonality and hypnotic language which was fascinating. It was a good day all in all and the main thing that struck me was just how easy it was for a couple of people in the group to fall into a trance. One of the guys that was easy to put in trance was a guy who worked for the bbc and he admitted that he really wanted to be able to influence others to get a better job which i remember disgusted me. There was a milkman there and i was glad when i watched him put the bbc guy into a trance after only being there for a few hours! Glad i went as it was quite an experience and a good skill to acquire and have first hand knowledge of.
It helps me understand why some people think the way they do and believe things more easily than others.:)

[niall]

But you are a Christian. This is fact.
That's why you have trouble with this thread.:)

Ofc. you like some work of Icke, the conspiracy fits in well with ''the tricks of the devil'' and the rest is all stuff to ''lead ya astray.'' ;)

But your an ickeian which is why all of what he says fits well with "the devil don't exist" (even though icke constantly bangs on about the ptb being satanists:D) so there is no one to lead you astray.:D:D

[niall]

No, Niall! Matrix and 'Not Real' do not equal the same thing. I'm beginning to think you're just having fun winding us up.

Please can you explain without using theory what you mean about the matrix and not real?
Also do you think the queen is a reptilian? I think she is a satanist illuminati scumbag. But she is real and not an illusion or part of any matrix.:D

[element]

But your an ickeian which is why all of what he says fits well with "the devil don't exist" (even though icke constantly bangs on about the ptb being satanists:D) so there is no one to lead you astray.:D:D
Well, to be honest, you make no sense at all.
It doesn't have to be a devil, it can be your own pride and ego.

What makes one an ''Ickeian'' , and what is it..?

[forestgrump]

From what i can recall the 1st day consisted of us all (12 people) sitting in an arrangement of chairs that were in a semi circle whilst the guy teaching us asked us all to introduce ourselves and explain why we were there, to which i answered that i was interested in using it to help others, which was a complete lie as i was more interested in making people think that they were wild animals and that they were naked etc!:D I can't remember what his name was but remember me and my mate couldn't stop starring as he was a dead ringer for richard gere which we found funny. After asking us all if any of us were afraid of water he used a hypnotic induction on us where we were supposed to be at the seaside. Then he split us into pairs and asked us to try and hypnotise the stranger he put us with. He then explained to us all about tonality and hypnotic language which was fascinating. It was a good day all in all and the main thing that struck me was just how easy it was for a couple of people in the group to fall into a trance. One of the guys that was easy to put in trance was a guy who worked for the bbc and he admitted that he really wanted to be able to influence others to get a better job which i remember disgusted me. There was a milkman there and i was glad when i watched him put the bbc guy into a trance after only being there for a few hours! Glad i went as it was quite an experience and a good skill to acquire and have first hand knowledge of.
It helps me understand why some people think the way they do and believe things more easily than others.:)

Thanks for taking the time. Do you reckon you're able to influence people more easily after the course or was it more theoretical?

[hirschfelder]

Yeah i get your point. But this guy has written a potentially influential book on a subject that a lot of people are using to say we are not real and live in a matrix etc.
Besides that isn't the queen a reptilian?:D

You haven't read the book. Don't dictate its contents to other people

For the record, the book's narrative concerns the history of atomic and subatomic discoveries and the people behind those discoveries.

The author isn't a scientist, he isn't publishing his own findings in the book, he's chronicling what has actually happened in the world of physics these last hundred or so years.

If you want to refute the book, you will have to devise and conduct some subatomic experiments of your own, not sit on the internet for hours on end disputing what you imagine to be written in books you haven't even read

[niall]

Thanks for taking the time. Do you reckon you're able to influence people more easily after the course or was it more theoretical?

I learnt that some people really can be influenced more easily than others. For example everyone is capable of being hypnotized to an extent but the people that really want to be are way more easy. Its real and not an illusion. It has nothing to do with being in a matrix. :) Please no one say that it proves the world is illusion and that we are all hypnotised as it is simply not true and does not work that way.:) We are real and our world is reality.:D

[forestgrump]

Please can you explain without using theory what you mean about the matrix and not real?
Also do you think the queen is a reptilian? I think she is a satanist illuminati scumbag. But she is real and not an illusion or part of any matrix.:D

You think the Queen is a Satanist? And a member of the Illuminati?

What does Satan represent to you? A paranormal being of Evil? Certainly not a human.

Could he/she (I reckon its a she, but thats just 'coz of my computer programming/single past) manipulate the bounds of reality as you perceive it?

Have you read my previous posts on this thread? IMO David Icke uses contemporary terms to try and get as wide an audience as possible for his message. Hence, 'The Matrix' as symbolised by the movie. The ideas have been around long before David Icke. The thing about Icke is that he assembles all of these ideas together in a coherent manner.

I admit that I have reservations about the reptilian stuff but I won't write it off as complete fabrication just yet. Perhaps not the Queen but maybe Cheney. I was raised in Rhodesia, my early life was dominated by very apparent propaganda, but we all believed it at the time.

Credo Mutwa had published before he met Icke (in particular, Indabe, My Children) and I still have to overcome my 'upbringing' not to dismiss it as 'Kaffir superstition". Of course, you are automatically offended by those words. But what is different about that than your automatic disdain for the idea of the matrix?

[seanx]

I know you don't like me, but i like you cause i find you very interesting.


Like you? For God sake, I have no opinion one way or the other
about you.

wE'RE talking and debating IDEAS.

But it is obvious from reading your posts, that your sole opposition
to the ideas Icke AND others talk about is your chrisitan
'programming'.

I've asked you a number of questions about that .....but you
refuse to answer.

As re. icke's ideas Element is absolutely right. All the
Christain fundamnatalists that come on here follow the
same pattern.

you like some work of Icke, the conspiracy fits in well with ''the tricks of the devil'' and the rest is all stuff to ''lead ya astray


Just out of curiosity sean x as you have stated that your not on here to give infinite love, do you believe in it? If yes then surely you should practice it

Read icke's book on the subject and that will answer your question.

Real love only comes from REAL understanding and AWARENESS,
and not the fake love of people trying to 'love' everybody simply
because some religious book tells them to.

[schaff]

But you are a Christian. This is fact.
That's why you have trouble with this thread.:)

Ofc. you like some work of Icke, the conspiracy fits in well with ''the tricks of the devil'' and the rest is all stuff to ''lead ya astray.'' ;)

What has being a Christian got to do with anything or Muslim etc if this forum is supposed to be full of free thinkers ?
So if you have researched the illuminat,nwo etc and come to the conclusion that you find God and dont believe in the oneness,illusionary world theory does that make your posts or info you put on here less relevant.
Cause if thats the case who is being close minded and easily influenced.I am open to all opinions/ideas and have faith thats what keeps me strong and fearless.Also prevents me from being led into delusional theories and keeps my eyes open that the elite are fucking satanic murderers.

[niall]

Like you?
Real love only comes from REAL understanding and AWARENESS,
and not the fake love of people trying to 'love' everybody simply
because some religious book tells them to.

I think its plain to see that you have no real love, understanding or awareness.:D
Then again your not real and living in a illusion/matrix so thats understandable!:D:D

[tejas]

"Oneness" is just another theory that fits the agenda of people who are against religion. There is no oneness as we are all individuals.

OMG. Scientifically we can show that the universe is NON-LOCAL which means that somehow, through means unknown by our science as of yet, one electron can be in DIRECT communication with another electron NO MATTER WHAT THE DISTANCE BETWEEN THEM INSTANTANEOUSLY. This is fact.

There is also the idea of quantumn entanglement

If that isnt PROOF of oneness I dont know what is.

There was recently an article in new scientist which compared the buddhist concept of oneness with recent quantumn theory and I quote:
"It might be that the buddhist concept of oneness is right after all...

[niall]

Its just unprovable theory put into play by the illuminati.:D

[niall]

What has being a Christian got to do with anything or Muslim etc if this forum is supposed to be full of free thinkers ?
So if you have researched the illuminat,nwo etc and come to the conclusion that you find God and dont believe in the oneness,illusionary world theory does that make your posts or info you put on here less relevant.
Cause if thats the case who is being close minded and easily influenced.I am open to all opinions/ideas and have faith thats what keeps me strong and fearless.Also prevents me from being led into delusional theories and keeps my eyes open that the elite are fucking satanic murderers.

Very good point schaff.

[tejas]

They do worship satan. Your denial of it fits there agenda nicely. All you are achieving is that you are defending what they get up to. Icke uses that term as he also knows it to be true. Since his "WOGAN" experience he has done everything he can possible do to deny the existence of God purely because he feels ashamed/embarrased of what he said. The man had no faith and fell away at the first hurdle showing that he is weak and easily turned. You have to remember the size of the u-turn he has done since then. His pride and ego were hurt, but he still wanted to carry on in this field of huge theory. I tend to skip posts that use crowleys words (your signature) as he to was a satanist and his work has convinced many others to be so to. Icke has spilled the beans on his work (crowley) and revealed just how much of an influence he has had on the ptb/nwo. Icke admits to channelling entities whom he has no idea where they come from and who they represent. Seems fairly obvious to me. These things use you for there own gain. So what they did was allow him the facts about all the corruption and intentions of the nwo and who is involved so that when he writes about illusion/oneness/matrix people will believe him because of his nwo stuff. He is clearly being used to lead people away from realising that they are human beings that exist on earth.
Before anyone feels the need to defend ickes ego for him remember i think he has done fantastic work exposing the nwo etc. Trying to convince others that they are not really here but in a matrix etc is pure fantasy!:D

Firstly How has my signature GOT anything to do with crowley, they are quotes from socrates, FAUST and The Upanishads. If crowely did use them, so what? He was not the originator of these quotes.

Secondly SATANISM is just a WORD or a concept. We really DONT know what the inner sanctum of the illuminati or brotherhood practice. Christians only ASSUME that it is satanism as that is what their conditioning tells them.
If you think it is satanism, are you thusly a christian?
Their religion pre-dates christianity (which they created) and thusly the practice of satanism. I dont blame you, I used to think they were literal satanists to untill I did some research into religion and realised that these practises are older then that even.

Thirdly, please actually at least TRY to understand the concept of MAYA in hinduism.

This is not only present in indian traditions but many shaministic traditions, and for example in HUNA.

The idea that reality is a mass hallucination akin to a dream is what we are getting at here.

[seanx]

Niall wrote:
I think its plain to see that you have no real love, understanding or awareness.

Translation: I won't accept your fundamentalist beliefs so
obviously I have no understanding!!

You fundamentalist are so obvious to spot. Your minds are so
closed and rigid.

In the begining, I thought you were a serious debater but your response to
tejas excellent post shows you are a joker.

Its just unprovable theory put into play by the illuminati

[tejas]

Its just unprovable theory put into play by the illuminati.:D

If your commenting on my last post about oneness, thats wrong.

ITs scientific fact.

Nonlocality - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quantum entanglement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quantum entanglement is a possible property of a quantum mechanical state of a system of two or more objects in which the quantum states of the constituting objects are linked together so that one object can no longer be adequately described without full mention of its counterpart — even though the individual objects may be spatially separated. This interconnection leads to non-classical correlations between observable physical properties of remote systems, often referred to as nonlocal correlations

http://www.gilestv.com/tutorials/nonlocal.html

How quantum theory shows that, apparently contrary to what einstein said about the speed of light being the maximum for anything in the universe, instantaneous action is possible across huge distances.

Non-locality is actually the rule of the universe. This means that the whole universe is an interconnected whole. No matter where you are, what happens around you is affected immediately by events all over the universe

[schaff]

They do worship satan. Your denial of it fits there agenda nicely. All you are achieving is that you are defending what they get up to. Icke uses that term as he also knows it to be true. Since his "WOGAN" experience he has done everything he can possible do to deny the existence of God purely because he feels ashamed/embarrased of what he said. The man had no faith and fell away at the first hurdle showing that he is weak and easily turned. You have to remember the size of the u-turn he has done since then. His pride and ego were hurt, but he still wanted to carry on in this field of huge theory. I tend to skip posts that use crowleys words (your signature) as he to was a satanist and his work has convinced many others to be so to. Icke has spilled the beans on his work (crowley) and revealed just how much of an influence he has had on the ptb/nwo. Icke admits to channelling entities whom he has no idea where they come from and who they represent. Seems fairly obvious to me. These things use you for there own gain.

Harsh words for people who treat david ickes work literally but very true niall .

[element]

What has being a Christian got to do with anything or Muslim etc if this forum is supposed to be full of free thinkers ?
So if you have researched the illuminat,nwo etc and come to the conclusion that you find God and dont believe in the oneness,illusionary world theory does that make your posts or info you put on here less relevant.
Cause if thats the case who is being close minded and easily influenced.I am open to all opinions/ideas and have faith thats what keeps me strong and fearless.Also prevents me from being led into delusional theories and keeps my eyes open that the elite are fucking satanic murderers.
Not too much.
Some people are open to NWO conspiracy but are almost immune to anything that goes beyond the holy book or beyond raw matter. Those people are often deeply critical towards Icke's work. It's just something I notice all the time. Criticism is fine, but do you think it should be substantial?

[niall]

Niall wrote:


Translation: I won't accept your fundamentalist beliefs so
obviously I have no understanding!!

You fundamentalist are so obvious to spot. Your minds are so
closed and rigid.

In the begining, I thought you were a serious debater but your response to
tejas excellent post shows you are a joker.

Whats all this fundamentalist bollocks about? For your information mate i don't even go to church. Like i said before your a really bad judge of character.
I wonder what icke would think of your behaviour :D
Mind you he's probably sitting at home reading the bible and watching reruns of the wogan interview thinking "what have i done"?
Remember he has already done a huge u-turn once which means he's more than capable of doing it again. I wonder how a lot of you would feel if he was to suddenly say he has changed his mind about the bible and he was wrong to denounce it. It would put a lot of you in a really awkward position.:D
The day will come when he'll admit this illusion stuff is a delusion and he had a wogan style relapse when he said we live in a matrix:D

[arty2000]

I don't;) There is no illusion to fear as there isn't one. Only delusion:D

and what you perceive as reality isnt real....if you choose to think this is real then peace be w/ya and good luck w/it:)

[arty2000]

But your an ickeian which is why all of what he says fits well with "the devil don't exist" (even though icke constantly bangs on about the ptb being satanists:D) so there is no one to lead you astray.:D:D

whats an ickian?:)

[seanx]

Niall wrote:
Whats all this fundamentalist bollocks about? For your information mate i don't even go to church. Like i said before your a really bad judge of character.

Really? Then why won't you reveal your beliefs?

Embrassed?

I wonder what icke would think of your behaviour

This is what you can't grasp. I couldn't give a bollocks what dave icke
thinks of my beliefs.

And that is the essence of what he is about.

Talking about ideas and letting people MAKE WHAT THEY WANT OF THEM.

But to you Fundamentalists - that is something you can't grasp.You need 'saviours' and 'gurus' to lead you.

Mind you he's probably sitting at home reading the bible and watching reruns of the wogan interview thinking "what have i done"?

That's why I know you are just a christian Fundamentalist and
not a REAL poster.

Another sad little troll.



Remember he has already done a huge u-turn once which means he's more than capable of doing it again. I wonder how a lot of you would feel if he was to suddenly say he has changed his mind about the bible and he was wrong to denounce it. It would put a lot of you in a really awkward position.


How sad. You poor man. You actually think the Bible is true.
And you say you're not a Fundamentalist!!

The day will come when he'll admit this illusion stuff is a delusion and he had a wogan style relapse when he said we live in a matrix

!!!!!!You really are TERRIFIED of these ideas, aren't you??

[kblood]

There are many layers to the illusion. There is the illusion made by the media, trying to shape our beliefs and perception, and also the illusion that matter is solid and unchangeable. That there is a set of laws controlling everything although they are changeable.

[creepingdave]

This thread amuses me. Many people have presented a plethora of information from varying scientific and philosophical arguments that are academically acknowledged, yet niall has failed to succintly rebutt or discuss any of these ideas. Instead he repeats the same rhetoric to each response. Though by no means am I saying he's a bad guy, he comes across quite nice actually, but there is unfortunately a distinct lack of open-mindedness to different ideas. Im sure many people arguing the 'illusion' are more open to the possibility that it is afterall a physical world, rather than vice versa.

[forestgrump]

Please can you explain without using theory what you mean about the matrix and not real?
Also do you think the queen is a reptilian? I think she is a satanist illuminati scumbag. But she is real and not an illusion or part of any matrix.:D


I don't think the Queen is a reptilian. Neither do I think she is a 'satanist illumanti scumbag'.

I do think that the Icke's view that the world could be a hologram (or illusion) has some bearing in science.

Matrix = physical senses designed to entrap you in the material world, ie., distractions through terror, materialism etc. Matereliasm controlled by advertising etc.

[forestgrump]

Whats all this fundamentalist bollocks about? For your information mate i don't even go to church. Like ihas said before your a really bad judge of character.
I wonder what icke would think of your behaviour :D
Mind you he's probably sitting at home reading the bible and watching reruns of the wogan interview thinking "what have i done"?
Remember he has already done a huge u-turn once which means he's more than capable of doing it again. I wonder how a lot of you would feel if he was to suddenly say he has changed his mind about the bible and he was wrong to denounce it. It would put a lot of you in a really awkward position.:D
The day will come when he'll admit this illusion stuff is a delusion and he had a wogan style relapse when he said we live in a matrix:D

I don't think he has done a U-Turn. I think he's 'dumbed down' his message for the likes of you. Reference previous posts of mine in this thread.

[forestgrump]

Please can you explain without using theory what you mean about the matrix and not real?


I think I've already done that in previous posts on this thread. Have you actually tried reading it from start to finish? Can you explain your stance without using speculation (not even theory or hypothesis)?

[deem]

Its all relative. We all experience our own individual reality. Our bodies move us around, our senses give us orientation and sensation. Our minds react to stimulace of our body, and our body in turn is affected by our minds. The body and the mind however have different agendas, especialy in the case ofreproduction. Drunk from the bodies secretions into the brain, lovemaking to the mind takes on a euphoric dreamlike sensation. We are lost in orgasmic lust, the excitment of touch, we link mentaly to our sexual organs, the eventual orgasm feels like a body and spiritual union,a merciful release. To our bodies have different priorities during this experience. the male organs gear up for an invasion, a million little soldiers ready for to fullfill they destiny of die trying. the female sex organs gear up for fertilization. Lost in our blanket of surreal pleasurable thoughts we are unaware of the struggle for life and death our bodies are into until the female annouces she didnt come on this month......... Gasp!. .............." my body tricked me "..................... Sorry! i have to go and have a cigerette now.

[arty2000]

This thread amuses me. Many people have presented a plethora of information from varying scientific and philosophical arguments that are academically acknowledged, yet niall has failed to succintly rebutt or discuss any of these ideas. Instead he repeats the same rhetoric to each response. Though by no means am I saying he's a bad guy, he comes across quite nice actually, but there is unfortunately a distinct lack of open-mindedness to different ideas. Im sure many people arguing the 'illusion' are more open to the possibility that it is afterall a physical world, rather than vice versa.

:):)...second that

[niall]

What some of you still haven't yet grasped is the fact that i read 4 icke books and for a while tolerated and considered his ideas about illusion and the matrix etc. I am well versed on his opinions and theories on the subject. After a while i just realised that its all unprovable theory. Sorry if that offends any of you, that is not my intention, but for the last time i feel i have to say i agree with ickes revelations about the illuminati and bloodlines and money etc, so i'm not on here to mock him. I just know that i'm real and the world i'm in exists. I have not once been angry on here and am amazed at the paranoia of sean x whom i personally feel is completely losing touch with reality by the content of his remarks to me. Thanks for starting this thread schaff i have enjoyed presenting my views even though there are a few that still don't grasp the fact that sometimes armed with all the information you can change your mind. You all know your real and really here and not an illusion or part of a matrix. You know it and you know i know it.
Sean x i think you need some diazepam or something.:D:D (you won't be offered a blue or red pill like in the matrix as its just a film):D:D

[seanx]

Niall wrote;
What some of you still haven't yet grasped is the fact that i read 4 icke books and for a while tolerated and considered his ideas about illusion and the matrix etc.

How nice of you to 'tolerate' his ideas for so long.

How privilaged we are.

I am well versed on his opinions and theories on the subject.

You clearly aren't. You haven't read the main books of his that
deal with these ideas.


After a while i just realised that its all unprovable theory. Sorry if that offends any of you, that is not my intention, but for the last time i feel i have to say i agree with ickes revelations about the illuminati and bloodlines and money etc, so i'm not on here to mock him.

Again, mate, we'll get over your rejection.

It will be difficult, but I'm sure the forum will eventually recover
and survive despite your rejection!!!



I just know that i'm real and the world i'm in exists.

Who said the world was not real,according to your present prepective?

Icke doesn't say this.

I have not once been angry on here and am amazed at the paranoia of sean x whom i personally feel is completely losing touch with reality by the content of his remarks to me.

Back to your ego again.

I simply CHALLENGED your BELIEFS, your conditioning. Beliefs which you won't
reveal, strangly enough!


Thanks for starting this thread schaff i have enjoyed presenting my views even though there are a few that still don't grasp the fact that sometimes armed with all the information you can change your mind. You all know your real and really here and not an illusion or part of a matrix. You know it and you know i know it.

???? Who says you're not real at this moment in time? Who says
the world is not 'real' at this moment in time?

Yet, where will this reality be in a thousands years from now? or 10
years from now ?

Of course reality is an illusion in the sense that it is just energy taking a particular
form in this moment in time.

You as a personality are not real in the ultimate sense. It's
just a temporary form you are taking.

You were a kid once, I presume. And a tennager?

Where is that kid or tennager gone now.

It's dead. Gone.

It was not real, in the ultimate sense.

Only the infinite consciousness behind it all exists.

And will continue to express through all the billions of forms or
non-forms you might take in all the billions of dimensions.



Sean x i think you need some diazepam or something. (you won't be offered a blue or red pill like in the matrix as its just a film)

If you don't like agressive debate, stick to your christian prayer
meetings.

[niall]

T Though by no means am I saying he's a bad guy, he comes across quite nice actually,

Thank you dave. Try telling that to sean x though:D:D

[niall]

You clearly aren't. You haven't read the main books of his that
deal with these ideas.

Thank you for acknowledging that there are just ideas.


You were a kid once, I presume. And a tennager?

Where is that kid or tennager gone now.

It's dead. Gone.

It was not real, in the ultimate sense.

When you born your a baby that eventually grows into a toddler then eventually a teenager then a man/woman. Its real its just that you grow up. Your body changes. That is one of the funniest and pointless analogies i have ever heard!:D


If you don't like agressive debate, stick to your christian prayer
meetings.

This is what i mean about you being paranoid. I do not go to church or christian prayer meetings.:)

[element]

This is what i mean about you being paranoid. I do not go to church or christian prayer meetings.:)

Do you believe Jesus Christ is the only way to salvation?
Is Satan misleading the intelligent people on these forums?

[hirschfelder]

What some of you still haven't yet grasped is the fact that i read 4 icke books and for a while tolerated and considered his ideas about illusion and the matrix etc. I am well versed on his opinions and theories on the subject. After a while i just realised that its all unprovable theory.

But the science on which he bases his ideas is proven. You seem to be in denial about this

[tejas]

But the science on which he bases his ideas is proven. You seem to be in denial about this

This is what I cant understand, I have repeated shown SCIENTIFIC FACT that can be used to support the idea of illusion, of oneness and yet he does not acknowledge it!


Each to their own!

Though by no means am I saying he's a bad guy, he comes across quite nice actually

I dont think hes a bad guy either... just ignorant :)

[realitycheck]

Does it matter if the worlds an illusion or not?
We still should treat each other with respect and enjoy it.
If i found out it was a computer game tommorow it wouldnt change the way i live my life - the aim is the same, to enjoy myself but not at anyone elses expense.

The question is pretty pointless imo, unless your want an excuse for doing harm to others - " its an illusion anyway so it doesnt matter" kinda thing.

[creepingdave]

Does it matter if the worlds an illusion or not?
We still should treat each other with respect and enjoy it.
If i found out it was a computer game tommorow it wouldnt change the way i live my life - the aim is the same, to enjoy myself but not at anyone elses expense.

The question is pretty pointless imo, unless your want an excuse for doing harm to others - " its an illusion anyway so it doesnt matter" kinda thing.

In a sense, not really...I find life is for experience...preferably positive based, so illusion or not, im thankful for this chance to live. (Shame i've been wasting it a bit. :D)

[realitycheck]

In a sense, not really...I find life is for experience...preferably positive based, so illusion or not, im thankful for this chance to live. (Shame i've been wasting it a bit. :D)

Exactually the point i made.

[niall]

But your life is not an illusion. We are all real. If you weren't real you wouldn't be able to say you weren't!:D
There is no illusion a part from the one that the ptb have used against us which is controlling us with money (which i fully acknowledge that electronic money don't exist and is just numbers on a screen) and keeping control of us through bloodlines. Another illusion is terrorism, and i'm well aware that the ptb are behind that. The only illusion that exists is that people from our part of the world thought we were free but they have trapped us in a system that they created. But it is a real system, not an illusion. Most of us just didn't notice it. On that "icke was right". That i fully except. If only icke had left it there, but he just had to take it that bit further, which i feel is a possible an ego thing. How many of you believe that icke is privy to information by channelling because he has been chosen to do so? How does he know that its not the "reptilians" he speaks of channelling false info to him? Is it true he was off his head on drugs (Ayahuasca) when he wrote tales of the time loop? When you take acid and stuff you do see and hear stuff but its just your imagination, nothing else. Someone who was meant to reveal certain things would not need drugs of any kind to do so.

[schaff]

But your life is not an illusion. We are all real. If you weren't real you wouldn't be able to say you weren't!:D
There is no illusion a part from the one that the ptb have used against us which is controlling us with money (which i fully acknowledge that electronic money don't exist and is just numbers on a screen) and keeping control of us through bloodlines. Another illusion is terrorism, and i'm well aware that the ptb are behind that. The only illusion that exists is that people from our part of the world thought we were free but they have trapped us in a system that they created. But it is a real system, not an illusion.

Good points made niall these are the illusions the elite created for us to believe as a reality and these are the only illusions created to keep people in fear through there divide and conquer tactics.One tactic that seems to work really well for them,it seems to me that a lot of people have a problem with anyone who's found God through their research or just have faith and dont buy into the oneness illusionary world theory .It is up to us to make our own choices cause we have free will.Those on this forum who have declared there beliefs in the bible and the Koran are often ridiculed for there faith which makes me wonder how open minded a lot of you really are .Also why is it such a hard concept that many here have found God through David's work

[seanx]

Niall wrote:
But your life is not an illusion. We are all real. If you weren't real you wouldn't be able to say you weren't!
There is no illusion a part from the one that the ptb have used against us which is controlling us with money (which i fully acknowledge that electronic money don't exist and is just numbers on a screen) and keeping control of us through bloodlines. Another illusion is terrorism, and i'm well aware that the ptb are behind that. The only illusion that exists is that people from our part of the world thought we were free but they have trapped us in a system that they created. But it is a real system, not an illusion. Most of us just didn't notice it. On that "icke was right".

As Element said, you like the bits that coincide with your religious
beliefs , but then when the rest of Icke's ideas challenge
your religious conditioning, you go back to your mocking!

'Oh, it must be his ego! Or: 'He must have been out of his head on
drugs!!

That i fully except. If only icke had left it there, but he just had to take it that bit further, which i feel is a possible an ego thing.

How many of you believe that icke is privy to information by channelling because he has been chosen to do so? How does he know that its not the "reptilians" he speaks of channelling false info to him?

How do you know when you are talking to people in real life if they
are good guys or bad guys. You use discrimination and intutition to
make valid judgments.

Is it true he was off his head on drugs (Ayahuasca) when he wrote tales of the time loop?

More mocking.

But please tell me what is wrong with the teaching plant Ayahuasca?

What have you got against it?

When you take acid and stuff you do see and hear stuff but its just your imagination, nothing else. Someone who was meant to reveal certain things would not need drugs of any kind to do so.

More utter ignorance.

Man-made shit drugs have nothing in common with natural healing and
teaching plants?

Didn't God create them?

So why are you now judging the work of your own God?

I also notice, my friend you continually refuse to answer Elements simple
question about God and Satan.

Why is that?

Will the cock have to crow three times before you answer?

[hirschfelder]

But your life is not an illusion. We are all real. If you weren't real you wouldn't be able to say you weren't!

Good points made niall

Jesus wept

[niall]

If you click on this video and drag the slider to 44mins and 2 secs (its quick so you have to be quite accurate), your hear what ickes idea of heaven is!:D He drinks a can of super strength lager (super tenants) and says " i feel like i've died and gone to heaven". I know he is apparently off the sauce now but i wonder how much stuff was channelled to him whilst being leathered on super tenants!:D These are simple facts. Hallougingenic drugs, because despite the bullshit thats what it is, and tramps piss strength lager! What a concoction!:D
No wonder he came up with the theory the world is an illusion! By the way, i have taken drugs of all kinds so i know what they do and i also like a drink.:D

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=6860946590182985661

[schaff]

Jesus wept

Whats your point spit it out mush:confused:

[element]

If you click on this video and drag the slider to 44mins and 2 secs (its quick so you have to be quite accurate), your hear what ickes idea of heaven is!:D He drinks a can of super strength lager (super tenants) and says " i feel like i've died and gone to heaven". I know he is apparently off the sauce now but i wonder how much stuff was channelled to him whilst being leathered on super tenants!:D These are simple facts. Hallougingenic drugs, because despite the bullshit thats what it is, and tramps piss strength lager! What a concoction!:D
No wonder he came up with the theory the world is an illusion! By the way, i have taken drugs of all kinds so i know what they do and i also like a drink.:D

You're a fun chap Niall. But not all what he experienced had to be under drug/drink influence. I think the spirits he felt had nothing to do with it. As far as I know on his drugs part, he did some drugs and now you're completely dismissing all of his ''supernatural'' stuff? I don't think he wrote everything under some drug influence. Hmm, people can experience such things without drugs or alcohol. How about praying to Jesus, isn't that a bit like that..?

[hirschfelder]

No wonder he came up with the theory the world is an illusion!

But he didn't

[seanx]

Niall wrote:
If you click on this video and drag the slider to 44mins and 2 secs (its quick so you have to be quite accurate), your hear what ickes idea of heaven is! He drinks a can of super strength lager (super tenants) and says " i feel like i've died and gone to heaven". I know he is apparently off the sauce now but i wonder how much stuff was channelled to him whilst being leathered on super tenants! These are simple facts. Hallougingenic drugs, because despite the bullshit thats what it is, and tramps piss strength lager! What a concoction!No wonder he came up with the theory the world is an illusion! By the way, i have taken drugs of all kinds so i know what they do and i also like a drink.

More garbage.

It's amazing how quickly these guys reveal their true colours when you
put them under a bit of agressive pressure!

As for Ayahuasca, why then did God create the teaching plant
Ayahuasca?

Did he get it wrong?

Maybe you could discuss it at your next Christian fellowship meeting
at how God could get it so wrong!

[21_12_2012]

What some of you still haven't yet grasped is the fact that i read 4 icke books and for a while tolerated and considered his ideas about illusion and the matrix etc. I am well versed on his opinions and theories on the subject. After a while i just realised that its all unprovable theory. Sorry if that offends any of you, that is not my intention, but for the last time i feel i have to say i agree with ickes revelations about the illuminati and bloodlines and money etc, so i'm not on here to mock him. I just know that i'm real and the world i'm in exists. I have not once been angry on here and am amazed at the paranoia of sean x whom i personally feel is completely losing touch with reality by the content of his remarks to me. Thanks for starting this thread schaff i have enjoyed presenting my views even though there are a few that still don't grasp the fact that sometimes armed with all the information you can change your mind. You all know your real and really here and not an illusion or part of a matrix. You know it and you know i know it.
Sean x i think you need some diazepam or something.:D:D (you won't be offered a blue or red pill like in the matrix as its just a film):D:D

Niall...
You've had dreams ... we all have ... thousands of them ... every night we dream ...
Even if we don't remember them ... yes ?

We all have dreams that 'feel' real ... yes ?

Pleasurable dreams ... sexual dreams ... painful dreams ... fearful dreams ... etc etc

In these wide variety of dreams, have you not 'physically' felt yourself walking ...
the ground beneath your feet ... touching people ... hitting or being hit ... having sex ... being chased ... etc etc ?

Have you not 'seen' things in your dreams ... people ... places ... animals ...
birds ... trees ... etc etc ?

Have you not 'heard' people speaking to you in your dreams ... and heard your
voice speaking to others ?

Have you not 'tasted' and 'smelt' things in your dreams ?

Does your 'waking life' feel any more real than your 'dreams' ?

Which is the illusion ... the dream ... or when you wake up in your bed ?

Are the feelings/senses/experiences any less real in your dreams than in 'waking life' ?

If you believe dreams are an illusion, and 'waking life' isn't, how would that
explain why we feel all the same feelings/senses in our dreams that we feel
in our 'waking life' ?

What's the difference ?

[strossus]

If everything is an illusion then who created the illusion. I dont know about anybody else but everything i touch smell feel seems real enough to me.Also makes me wonder about the we live in a matrix theory it seems a bit of a sci fi ideology to me and hasn't the idea of the matrix just come from a film just wanna see where everyone stands on this and how they come to there conclusion.

We most definetley live in a matrix. Your thoughts are not your own. You are manipulated since birth to have a certain perspective, to believe you are small, and nothing.

We are pure conciousness experiencing this reality through a machine we call the body. To say that we do not live in a matrix is unheard of.

[kblood]

At least Niall can see the illusions that the PTB put over our heads everyday. It does take a leap of belief to see everything one big illusion.

David Icke himself said in one of his latest interviews that everything being an illusion is no excuse to just wait and see what happens.

As I mentioned earlier, Einstein has said that our reality is an illusion, its just more persistent than what people usually accept as illusions.

Its not easy to fathom what it means that everything is an illusion. I cannot say I do, but I still have a strong belief that it is. Especially due to my own experiences, that have sometimes showed what we believe to be real, as something much different.

Our eyes have a limited scope of what they can see, also our ears have a limited scope to what sound frequencies they can hear. There is much more to it all than what we see.

Time is one of our illusions. We can all say we know time is true, because we can remember what happened yesterday and a year ago, still its an illusion. Im planning to experiment some more with that.

[luc_id]

In my opinion it all just comes down to our beliefs. These are a combination of what you've learned, how you were raised, and the experiences you have had during your life. So it is rational to assume that society, your parents and peers and the things you read and hear have a degree of influence on what you believe.

No matter what degree of truth they contain , the information you get from these sources is already false because it will either be deliberately corrupted or filtered through the beliefs of the source.

I think only our own experiences are real, and even these will be filtered through our beliefs. I learned to recognize how some of my beliefs and thoughts were conditioning and some my own interpretation of this. Can we really say that there exists such a thing as a truly original thought?

So I try to follow my intuition and believe those things that resonate with my thoughts and feelings. Ultimately everybody chooses what they believe whether they are aware of this or not.

This world is run by some very sick minded people and I'm not gonna lay back and accept that. Neither am I letting them ruin the experience I'm having whilst being here in this form, this reality. Because whatever comes before and after(and during this life) I guess I won't experience it the same way, so I try to make the most of now.

There's a lot of research in modern science that would suggest that we are all one consciousness. The same can be said about most religious texts and teachings. It's all a matter of interpretation.

I don't follow any guru, teacher, preacher but I take the bits that resonate with me and discard those that don't.
As long as you don't impose on other people's right to express themself you have every right to do so yourself.

And as for David getting his ideas from the Matrix movie, it's called an analogy or a metaphor. The basic premise is also neither new or original, it's called Allegory of the Cave - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
People have been cracking their heads on the illusion:D for quite some time, you guys think we can solve it here, eh?;)

[niall]

Niall...
You've had dreams ... we all have ... thousands of them ... every night we dream ...
Even if we don't remember them ... yes ?

We all have dreams that 'feel' real ... yes ?

Pleasurable dreams ... sexual dreams ... painful dreams ... fearful dreams ... etc etc

In these wide variety of dreams, have you not 'physically' felt yourself walking ...
the ground beneath your feet ... touching people ... hitting or being hit ... having sex ... being chased ... etc etc ?

Have you not 'seen' things in your dreams ... people ... places ... animals ...
birds ... trees ... etc etc ?

Have you not 'heard' people speaking to you in your dreams ... and heard your
voice speaking to others ?

Have you not 'tasted' and 'smelt' things in your dreams ?

Does your 'waking life' feel any more real than your 'dreams' ?

Which is the illusion ... the dream ... or when you wake up in your bed ?

Are the feelings/senses/experiences any less real in your dreams than in 'waking life' ?

If you believe dreams are an illusion, and 'waking life' isn't, how would that
explain why we feel all the same feelings/senses in our dreams that we feel
in our 'waking life' ?

What's the difference ?

The difference is that a dream is just a dream, despite that they are quite amazing they are never truly real. Everyone can tell the difference between a dream and reality. Although i do understand what your trying to say.
And sean x i don't go to church or attend christian fellowship meetings so please get a grip.:D
And k blood thanks for this bit At least Niall can see the illusions that the PTB put over our heads everyday. It does take a leap of belief to see everything one big illusion.

[seanx]

Niall wrote';

The difference is that a dream is just a dream, despite that they are quite amazing they are never truly real. Everyone can tell the difference between a dream and reality. Although i do understand what your trying to say.

'Who' has told you one type of experience is 'real' and another is not
'real'.

Your past.

Your cultural and religious conditioning is making these
decisions.

The Elite have literally 'kidnapped' this word, 'dream' and projected
their preferred meaning onto it.

Instead of calling it a dream , why not use the phrase ,
alternative reality!



And sean x i don't go to church or attend christian fellowship meetings so please get a grip.
And k blood thanks for this bit

You are very quick to ridicule other people's ideas (Icke's was pissed
or on drugs) yet you seem very reluctant to reveal your own!

Why???

[niall]

Everyone knows the difference between a dream and reality. Like i've already said the "illusion" is to be allowed to think we are free when we clearly have been manipulated and controlled by the ptb. That is the "illusion" although a better word would be "deception". But it is happening in reality. If you want to make a difference to the world i would focus on what is real not what isn't.:D

[21_12_2012]

The difference is that a dream is just a dream, despite that they are quite amazing they are never truly real.

It depends what you class as 'real'. Are atoms (which are 99% empty space) real ? Is energy real ? It 'feels' real...but...is it ? Or is there something else to it that is making us 'perceive' things to be real ?

It's our DNA, linked with our deep subconcious beliefs and collective unconscious. Like a virtual reality holographically-based internet, which we interact with through our DNA.

Hit your hand with hammer...it feels real...and you feel pain...not in your hand though...
the pain registers in your brain. Its just an electrical signal from pressure on your hand (which is made of 99% empty atoms) by a 99% empty hammer, sending an electrical signal to your 99% empty atom brain, which then produces a reaction which we call pain. (Just like in a dream when we feel pain)

Take some morphine, then hit yourself with a hammer...you dont feel the pain, but the hammer is still there, and the blow to the hand....doesn't seem as 'real' now though does it ?

If what you class as 'real' (waking life) was as real as you say, how could 'placebo' effects work ? How can very ill people become well again simply by suggestion and belief ? And how could hypnosis ever work ?

Everyone can tell the difference between a dream and reality.

If this was the case, people would hardly ever dream...the moment they started to dream, we would all think "ah..this is a dream..this isn't real...time to end it..or change it"
But we don't (normally)...we experience the dreams, night after night, just as we experience 'waking life'

What about nightmares....some are terrifying... sometimes we wake up screaming...
in fact nightmares are more terrifying than 'waking life'...more 'real' than 'waking life'.

[seanx]

Niall wrote:
Everyone knows the difference between a dream and reality. Like i've already said the "illusion" is to be allowed to think we are free when we clearly have been manipulated and controlled by the ptb. That is the "illusion" although a better word would be "deception". But it is happening in reality. If you want to make a difference to the world i would focus on what is real not what isn't

That opinion clearly illustrated that you are still a prisioner of this matrix illusion that the Elite and their religions have created.

They have convinced you that this is the only REAL reality. That no
other alternative realites exist.

They have you imprisioned in this limited 5-sense world where you will
vibrate at the limited frequency they want.

As luc-id said, plato's cave.

So 'dreams' are 'unreal', and merely 'imaginary' and not nighttime
ventures into alternative realities .

Natural plant drugs are 'bad, 'evil' and 'dangerous' - and if you
experience what seems like a different reality, that is only a
'halluncination', another Elite created phrase to mean something
which is not real, just a figment of your imagination.

My friend, you are a perfect example of how the Elite have
fooled us all.

[seanx]

21_12_2012 wrote:

It depends what you class as 'real'. Are atoms (which are 99% empty space) real ? Is energy real ? It 'feels' real...but...is it ? Or is there something else to it that is making us 'perceive' things to be real ?

It's our DNA, linked with our deep subconcious beliefs and collective unconscious. Like a virtual reality holographically-based internet, which we interact with through our DNA.

Hit your hand with hammer...it feels real...and you feel pain...not in your hand though...
the pain registers in your brain. Its just an electrical signal from pressure on your hand (which is made of 99% empty atoms) by a 99% empty hammer, sending an electrical signal to your 99% empty atom brain, which then produces a reaction which we call pain. (Just like in a dream when we feel pain)

Take some morphine, then hit yourself with a hammer...you dont feel the pain, but the hammer is still there, and the blow to the hand....doesn't seem as 'real' now though does it ?

If what you class as 'real' (waking life) was as real as you say, how could 'placebo' effects work ? How can very ill people become well again simply by suggestion and belief ? And how could hypnosis ever work ?


Quote:
Everyone can tell the difference between a dream and reality.

If this was the case, people would hardly ever dream...the moment they started to dream, we would all think "ah..this is a dream..this isn't real...time to end it..or change it"
But we don't (normally)...we experience the dreams, night after night, just as we experience 'waking life'

What about nightmares....some are terrifying... sometimes we wake up screaming...
in fact nightmares are more terrifying than 'waking life'...more 'real' than 'waking life'

Very well explained.

[21_12_2012]

http://www.hiddenmeanings.com/dna.html

Also DNA / energetic attack and manipulation
From birth (vaccines, shit foods, electromagnetic energy, chemicals etc) we are targetted.
It serves the illuminati scum bags more than 1 purpose. 1 purpose is to make us ill and attack our immune system, so that later in life we develop disease and begin to consume their 'drugs', making them billions of dollars.
But also, it affects our DNA, which stops us accessing other information in 'the illusion' / matrix, and keeps us (as Icke says) "In That Box", where we are a piece of cake to manipulate.

By the way, the medical industry symbol is the caduceus, the entwined snakes...the 2 strand DNA symbol.

They know exactly what theyre targetting, and even put it in our face with the symbol.

Were we manipulated in the 'Garden of Eden' by the 'serpent' ? Was our DNA 'changed' in some way, in order to 'lock us into' this 3d illusion by means of 2 strand DNA ?

I believe so. And also i believe there is (and has been for a while) an energetic change going on in our 'universe', an increasing vibratory rate of energy, which is affecting all atoms/molecules, and causing them to vibrate at an increased rate as we move further into the increasing energy.

This is proven, the Schumann cavity resonance (earths hearbeat) has been increasing for decades (even science says this), and our perception of time has increased (time appearing to move quicker) due to this energetic increase.

The illuminati know this all too well, which is why they have stepped up their attack on our DNA/energy systems, and will keep increasing it, as they desperately try to keep us 'in that box' ...the 3d reality illusion.

I also believe, the illuminati know that our DNA is changing, and has the potential to become much more active and access much more 'reality' if they do not keep bombarding us left right and centre.
Genetically modified foods = genetically modifying (and inhibiting) us.

Science says we have like 90 odd percent 'junk DNA' which they dont know what it does... i believe this 'dormant' DNA is in the process of activating / expanding / increasing in power, DNA is affected by light and increasing vibratory rates of light(energy) will positively affect it....and in the next few years will be the catalyst to escape this 'prison illusion'

Some call it ascension...somesay mass ascension...neither can be ruled out, and neither can be verified as being true until the 'time' comes, but, i believe the Mayans knew exactly what the solar/energetic cycles were, and how they affected us, and will affect us.

The illuminati sure do have a thing about 2012, and locking us down. Does this increasing energetic illusion change peak at the end of 2012, and change the 'illusion' ? And are the illuminati doing their best to hold us here past that time, by means of (eventually) microchipping us and controlling what energy we receive and how our DNA is affected ?

It isnt to be ruled out.

[seanx]

21_12_2012 wrote

Also DNA / energetic attack and manipulation
From birth (vaccines, shit foods, electromagnetic energy, chemicals etc) we are targetted.
It serves the illuminati scum bags more than 1 purpose. 1 purpose is to make us ill and attack our immune system, so that later in life we develop disease and begin to consume their 'drugs', making them billions of dollars.
But also, it affects our DNA, which stops us accessing other information in 'the illusion' / matrix, and keeps us (as Icke says) "In That Box", where we are a piece of cake to manipulate.

By the way, the medical industry symbol is the caduceus, the entwined snakes...the 2 strand DNA symbol.

They know exactly what theyre targetting, and even put it in our face with the symbol.

Were we manipulated in the 'Garden of Eden' by the 'serpent' ? Was our DNA 'changed' in some way, in order to 'lock us into' this 3d illusion by means of 2 strand DNA ?

I believe so. And also i believe there is (and has been for a while) an energetic change going on in our 'universe', an increasing vibratory rate of energy, which is affecting all atoms/molecules, and causing them to vibrate at an increased rate as we move further into the increasing energy.

This is proven, the Schumann cavity resonance (earths hearbeat) has been increasing for decades (even science says this), and our perception of time has increased (time appearing to move quicker) due to this energetic increase.

The illuminati know this all too well, which is why they have stepped up their attack on our DNA/energy systems, and will keep increasing it, as they desperately try to keep us 'in that box' ...the 3d reality illusion.

I also believe, the illuminati know that our DNA is changing, and has the potential to become much more active and access much more 'reality' if they do not keep bombarding us left right and centre.
Genetically modified foods = genetically modifying (and inhibiting) us.

Science says we have like 90 odd percent 'junk DNA' which they dont know what it does... i believe this 'dormant' DNA is in the process of activating / expanding / increasing in power, DNA is affected by light and increasing vibratory rates of light(energy) will positively affect it....and in the next few years will be the catalyst to escape this 'prison illusion'

Some call it ascension...somesay mass ascension...neither can be ruled out, and neither can be verified as being true until the 'time' comes, but, i believe the Mayans knew exactly what the solar/energetic cycles were, and how they affected us, and will affect us.

The illuminati sure do have a thing about 2012, and locking us down. Does this increasing energetic illusion change peak at the end of 2012, and change the 'illusion' ? And are the illuminati doing their best to hold us here past that time, by means of (eventually) microchipping us and controlling what energy we receive and how our DNA is affected ?

It isnt to be ruled out.

I think that is an excellent summary of where we are now.

it also the same conclusion that Icke, Bandon and lots of other
writers on consciousness have also come to.

So although these are tough times, there are also some of the most
exciting times to be here.

Infinite worlds, realities have been around us all the time.

Now, soon we will all able to experience them???

[thunda]

It depends on what - and where - the definitions and origin of the words "Illusion" and "Reality" come from.

Where they handed to us by "God"? .. Did some scientist shout Eureka! one day and suddenly claim he had discovered the word "Illusion"?

No, they are just a collection of words / sounds we use to describe a man-made concept / idea in regards of the universe we observe.

We call it Reality when we can see, hear, taste, smell and touch it. But we don't really see, hear, taste, smell and touch anything. Our senses, which have evolved to become what they are, are merely tools to interact with various energy patters and to pass what they sense to the brain - which then decodes the signals into what we define as what we "see", "hear", "taste", "smell" and "touch".

My nose doesn't smell poo .. my brain does. My nose only acts as a tool to collect the energy patterns of what we call poo which when it does, then fires of another energy pattern (which we define as "electrical signals") for my brain to decode. If my nose isn't as good as sensitive as yours - then the two of us won't smell the same smell - they'll be a slight difference. If my brain decodes the signals different to yours - might only be marginal - then it will interpret the signals it receives differently and we'll smell a different poo.

So who's defintion - when it comes to smelling Poo - is Reality? Yours or mine?

Who knows?? .. hence why Reality is subjective to the observer.

So if it is subjective to the observer - then we have no absolute reality as each persons is different - even if its only an itty-bitty little difference - its still different.

So how can we say that Reality is absolute when it obviously isn't? So if Reality isn't absolute - its dependent purely on the observer - then what we each observe is illusionary to us - as it doesn't compare exactly with any man-made definitions we apply to "Reality" and "Illusion".

"Ahhhhh .. regardless of how we decode it individually - it still exists out there in the same form for us to sense"

Technically, you may be correct - but sadly, you can't prove that and neither can I disprove it - because any attempt to prove or disprove depends on our observation of the results - which of course - we'll all interpret differently based on our brains ability to decode the signals it receives.

So therefore, we'll create our own "standard" reality, which of course, has no basis in Reality as no-body can define it - which means its all an illusion and will remain so for ever.

[niall]

There is much evidence to suggest that dreams are just unresolved issues that have not been dealt with in your waking day.:D Give it some thought.:)

[arty2000]

It depends what you class as 'real'. Are atoms (which are 99% empty space) real ? Is energy real ? It 'feels' real...but...is it ? Or is there something else to it that is making us 'perceive' things to be real ?

It's our DNA, linked with our deep subconcious beliefs and collective unconscious. Like a virtual reality holographically-based internet, which we interact with through our DNA.

Hit your hand with hammer...it feels real...and you feel pain...not in your hand though...
the pain registers in your brain. Its just an electrical signal from pressure on your hand (which is made of 99% empty atoms) by a 99% empty hammer, sending an electrical signal to your 99% empty atom brain, which then produces a reaction which we call pain. (Just like in a dream when we feel pain)

Take some morphine, then hit yourself with a hammer...you dont feel the pain, but the hammer is still there, and the blow to the hand....doesn't seem as 'real' now though does it ?

If what you class as 'real' (waking life) was as real as you say, how could 'placebo' effects work ? How can very ill people become well again simply by suggestion and belief ? And how could hypnosis ever work ?



If this was the case, people would hardly ever dream...the moment they started to dream, we would all think "ah..this is a dream..this isn't real...time to end it..or change it"
But we don't (normally)...we experience the dreams, night after night, just as we experience 'waking life'

What about nightmares....some are terrifying... sometimes we wake up screaming...
in fact nightmares are more terrifying than 'waking life'...more 'real' than 'waking life'.

:):)nice

[21_12_2012]

There is much evidence to suggest that dreams are just unresolved issues that have not been dealt with in your waking day.:D Give it some thought.:)

Yes, that is a fair enough point.

But what i am getting it is...
We see, hear, feel, smell, taste, feel emotions etc etc exactly the same in our dreams (and sometimes more so) as we do in our 'waking life'.

So which is the illusion and which is real ?

What about lucid dreams/astral travel...remote viewing ? Where people visit 'real' (waking life) places whilst asleep or in a trance...how can that be possible if the only 'reality' is us being 'awake' in our 'waking life' ?

Do you believe we have a soul/spirit ?

What about 'extra sensory perception', psychic senses, clairvoyance etc ?

None of this stuff would be possible if there was only 1 'reality' and 1 way of
existing in that reality.

[arty2000]

There is much evidence to suggest that dreams are just unresolved issues that have not been dealt with in your waking day.:D Give it some thought.:)

I posed this before....if you believe this is real where do dreams come from/origins,what is the process... if it is unresolved does the brain store it waiting for you to go to sleep then activates these unresolved issues and if so why do most people not remember if the issues need to be resolved?would like your thoughts on this,that is is you would respond this time;)

[kblood]

Yes, that is a fair enough point.

But what i am getting it is...
We see, hear, feel, smell, taste, feel emotions etc etc exactly the same in our dreams (and sometimes more so) as we do in our 'waking life'.

So which is the illusion and which is real ?

What about lucid dreams/astral travel...remote viewing ? Where people visit 'real' (waking life) places whilst asleep or in a trance...how can that be possible if the only 'reality' is us being 'awake' in our 'waking life' ?

Do you believe we have a soul/spirit ?

What about 'extra sensory perception', psychic senses, clairvoyance etc ?

None of this stuff would be possible if there was only 1 'reality' and 1 way of
existing in that reality.

I was just about to mention this. Especially dreaming the future. It happens to some people.

All this around us is physical, but there is much evidence that there is more than what our 5 senses tell us. People and maybe even more so animals have reactions that doesnt seem to be based on the 5 senses alone.

Here is an interesting webpage on different kinds of telepathy:
http://home.xtra.co.nz/hosts/Wingmakers/Telepathy.html

A bit of it:

Sight Telepathy Exercises

Even before we begin to get a 'feel' for sight telepathy, it might be good to practice getting a 'feel' with some of the other processes that your eyes work with light first. For example, moving your eyes a certain way will make some objects move in and out of focus. Practice doing this several times a day, so that the feeling of doing this at will is familiar and controllable.

Then, do the same exercises with the many other ways that your eyes interact with light, for example: squinting so that all you see are light rays and not the objects themselves. After several months, you should have several feelings become very familiar, and when you have the control to bring any one of these feelings (and the desired optic effect that come with it) on using only your own will, you will then be ready to begin exercises to develop your sight telepathy.

In his book, Physical Control of the Mind (1968), a medical scientist at Yale University, José Delgado, describes a turning point in human evolution. Using examples of the mind influencing the development and repairs of the body, he shows that it is only a mater of time before the brain can alter it own structure and functions as well. By his studies, it was found that simply concentrating on a part of the body opens up a wide range of mental activity (and energy) directly related to that part of the body.

[niall]

I posed this before....if you believe this is real where do dreams come from/origins,what is the process... if it is unresolved does the brain store it waiting for you to go to sleep then activates these unresolved issues and if so why do most people not remember if the issues need to be resolved?would like your thoughts on this,that is is you would respond this time;)

Your subconscious mind/brain never sleeps . As you know even when you sleep it constantly monitors and keeps your vitals going. All those things that we take for granted, such as the beating of our hearts, breathing etc. At the same time it is processing your thoughts and all the images and sounds, smells, feelings you have ever experienced. These then become "dreams" and are made up of your own waking days, it just plays them back slightly more erratic sometimes. You have to remember that since the invention of tv, computers etc,there is very little that we haven't seen or heard. Our subconscious treats all this info as real so when you watch a violent horror as far as its concerned the violence is real. Your subconscious mind/brain remembers everything and tries to sort through all the info. Its just a natural process that our minds/brains needs to go through. But just as our other organs in the body are fantastic and perfect for the job they do, your mind/brain is responsible for regulating them. This is because we are truly amazing creations that are human beings and we should be grateful for that. The important unresolved issues are the dreams that people remember. There are many dreams that people have where they can smell and touch, feel etc, but these are just playbacks of your memory. The real world is when we are not a sleep or dreaming, and although i acknowledge that some dreams are realistic they still fall massively short of what we experience in our waking state. The fact is that despite our dream state being fascinating, it is just ourselves processing info. When we wake we are in the real world and not an illusion. Enjoy it cause its reality.:D

[mayorofcydonia]

I have figured out how this illusion works. It is easy to understand, it's all in your mind, read it:

The programming, memories and experiences in the upper levels of the subconscious mind, tend to deal with bad and disturbing experiences someone has had during their lives. Most of the stuff in the upper levels of the subconscious mind doesn't affect the Illuminati's power, because most of it is personal. The sudden surge of people reporting being molested shows that the upper levels of the subconscious mind has been opened already in many people. Before the 90's most people kept their experiences about being molested quite. This opening up of the upper levels of the subconscious mind has been bringing out other bad experiences in people and this would explain why people have been so frustrated. It also explains why a lot of people are losing control of themselves, being using more drugs and psychiatric medications and being more violent. People are being confronted with the disturbances and negative experiences that they have buried in their subconscious minds, because it is being opened up. This is something that needs to happen if people are to develop a higher state of consciousness. Tension between the polar opposites is the foundation of all bad emotions and states of mind such as anger, hatred, jealously, fear, annoyance, guilt, intolerance, revenge etc. Whenever you release one of these emotions or feelings, you will feel a lack of tension and that should tell you that tension between the polar opposites is what makes you feel bad and causes so many problems in your life as well as the rest of the world. All anger, hatred, fear etc, are one form of tension or another. Tension between the polar opposites is what generates all bad emotions and feelings whether personal or collectively. Look at what happens before a nation goes to war against another nation. The government and the media don't need to give people convincing evidence to justify going into war, all they need to do is inflame as much anger, hatred, fear, intolerance, revenge etc as possible, to make the majority of the people support the war. The war on terror and the war in Iraq are good examples of this. If people didn't accept these tensions such as anger, hatred, fear, intolerance, revenge etc, then the government wouldn't be able to launch a war or continue a war. Vietnam is a good example of this. People made the descision not to live with fear and hatred that the elites were giving them during the 1960's and 70's and the government couldn't continue waging the war in Vietnam. Other forms of violence such as fights or riots occur when tension between the polar opposites grows to the point where it boils over and causes a person or a group to lose control and release their tension all at once. People that are angry, frustrated and violent all the time are in a very polarised state of mind and they havn't opened up their subconscious minds. The increasing levels of energy that is permeating the Earth is opening up peoples subconscious minds and there is no benefit in trying to resist this process. People that resist the increasing levels of energy will experience much more tension between the polar opposites and everything that comes out of it. Deeper down from this level is peoples personal programming. In this level of the subconscious mind people have programming that saids things such as "I'm good", "I'm bad", "I'm important", "I'm worthless", "I'm pure", "I'm a sinner", "my life is shit", "I'm a slut", "I'm rich", "I'm poor", "I will never amount to anything" etc. Most of the personal programming tends to be negative in nature that restricts the persons true potentional and puts them down all the time. But being considered a good boy or a good girl all the time isn't a good thing either, because that isn't what the person really is. The deeper someone goes into the subconscious mind, the more collective the programming is. The deeper levels of the subconscious mind contains the programming that saids who people are and how they should think and act, which they have received since they were young. This type of programming is easier to deal with compared to the bad and disturbing experiences in the upper levels of the subconscious mind and it can be deprogrammed faster as well, because it isn't so painful to deal with. The programming that a person has at this level of the subconscious mind is the same or similar to the programming that everyone else in that persons division or heirarchy has as well. Every division, box, heirarcy or branch that someone belongs to whether it's religious, ethnic, national, ideological etc, has one or more polar opposites that everyone in that division is either in a conflict with or is mutually suspicious of. For example the polar opposite of a Christain is a Muslim, the polar opposite of a Catholic is a Protestant, the polar opposite of a Sunni Muslim is a Shia Muslim, the polar opposite of Conservative is a Liberal, the polar opposite of a white man is a black man, the polar opposite of a Palestinian is a Jew etc. For religious people, their polar opposite is anyone that doesn't belong to their particular religion. Half the programming that someone receives in a division or heirarcy, whether it's religious, ethnic, national, ideological etc, is how to be a good servant within that heirarchy, the other half of the programming that a person receives is getting people in that division to hate, despise or look down on their polar opposites or anyone that doesn't belong to their division. For example people in religions are always told that their particular religion is the only true religion and all others are evil, another example is how people in political ideologies are always taught to despise their polar opposite in the other political party or ideology. People who are committed to their division are in a never ending quest to defeat their polar opposite, such as a Liberal spends their life battling Conservatives. These examples show that the divisions, whether they are religious, political, ideological, ethnic, national etc, are all based on the illusion of polarisation. The upper levels of the subconscious mind deters people from going deeper down into the subconsious mind. Going even deeper into the subconscious mind is the primordial programming and conditioning, which forms the very foundations of what the Illuminati builds the Matrix system on. The programming at this level of the subconscious mind is about illusions that say that people are their bodies and keeps their true self hidden and closed off from them. This level of the subconscious mind also gives people the illusion that they are separate from everyone and everything else. This is the level of the subconscious mind where the illusion of polarisation is. Polarisation is an important foundation to the Illuminati's power, because this is where division comes from. The illusion of polarisation is the very foundation of the Illuminati's power and the Matrix system. The illusion of polarisation is what seperates you from yourself. This is what causes you to forget who you really are and believe that you are a lable, whether it's national, religious, ethnic, ideological etc. As long as you are seperated from yourself, you live your life in a hierarchical state of mind, which is what the all seeing eye seperated from the pyramid represents. The all seeing eye is your true self, which is seperated from yourself. All divisions come in two. The illusion of polarisation is the same in everyone, no matter which culture, ethnicity, nation, religion, ideology etc, they have. None of the programming at any level of the subconscious mind is invisible, it only appears to be invisible because people think that programming is a part of them and it is them, that is why they don't notice it. The deeper a program is in the subconscious mind, the more someone believes it is a part of them, especially the programs in the primordial level of the subconscious mind. The programs at all levels of the subconscious mind serve to suck energy and power from the true self that exists below the deepest levels of the subconscious mind and give that energy and power to the Illuminati. These programs essentially harvest the energy and power from the true self to the Illuminati as the first Matrix movie shows. That is why people in a lower level of consciousness, who are ignorant of what is happening and serve a branch or hierarchy that is connected to the Illuminati, always feel frustrated, unfullfilled and have many other bad feelings. They are being drained of their energy and power. When a program, experience or memory is removed from the subconscious mind, it stops sucking the energy and power from the true self. The person who has removed contents from the subconscious mind, still remembers them, but the contents that have been removed from the subconscious mind have no power any more, because it is no longer sucking the power and energy from the person. Going deeper from the primordial level of the subconscious mind is what is called the collective unconscious. This part of the mind is free from any programming and illusions. This is the part of the mind that the Illuminati keeps closed by filling up the levels of the subconscious mind with programming and illusions. When people access the collective unconscious, they will start developing a much greater sense of awareness and intuition, which allows them to perceive and interperate energies and frequencies, which they couldn't do before. When this starts to happen, the people who have accessed their collective unconscious will have trouble trying to understand the energies and frequencies they are perveiving, but once they do understand them, then they will have trouble putting what they have understood into words, because the collective unconscious has been closed off for such a long time in most people, that the vocabulary hasn't been created to describe it yet. These are baby steps.