Islam and the UK

[nirvana]

Islam is very divided between extreamist and the moderates. Having been on many anti-war marches and demo's ,why do so many moderate muslims keep their mouths shut when they see extreamists tarnishing their religeon?

Also why was their only a handful of muslims that spoke out against the muslim paedaphile gangs in Keighley?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttz8-ucWhYc&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Flancaster%2Dbnp%2Dfreespeech%2Eb logspot%2Ecom%2F&feature=player_embedded


What would happen if we had a majority muslim cabinet

Please dont call me a racist Ive exposed the bnp enough times.

Exposing the muslim paedaphile gangs.Its strange that they dont mention who this paedaphile ring is.

For those that find this thread offensive GOOD.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bradford/7374398.stm

We have the right to expose all religeons and political parties

[jammasterj13]

Having grown up around Muslims all my life, I think I and my fellow Hindus/sikhs understand their mentalities.

The moderate muslim does not exist IMHO. It's a complete and utter contradiction. Their religion comes before all else, whatever they say and do is for their own good and nobody else's. They will spout honey sweet words to the people they wanna grease but deep down their agenda is an islamist one.

As Allahs chosen people(only in their own heads) they are above criticism and blame. In their own heads they are right and everybody else's opinion is wrong.
They love playing the victim and racism card till it's worn out. Total and utter hypocrites. Their are so many different ideologies within Islam that the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing.
Deep, deep down the muslim will not rest till you, me, everybody is a Muslim. They are brainwashed from birth and indoctrinated in a mosque near you after normal school.
Their religion is a complete and utter rip off, of Jewish and Christian ideologies and the Quran(I've read it) is a mass contradiction and in most parts utterley nonsensical.
They turn inner city and town areas into islamic ghettoes, mosques and islamic schools on every corner. They do not want to integrate.
They say Islam means Peace, but it doesn't, it means submission, submission to their way of thinking and doing, no different to 'Naziism'.

You may think I hate muslims, I don't, some of my best friends are muslims, but and this is a big but, they do not follow the shia, sunni, wahabi ways, they are all sufis and other sects who have been persecuted to death by the nutty sects.
Wanna find a good and decent muslim speak to a Sufi, you can't go wrong.:)

Me I'm a non practising Hindu and do not adhere to any religious dogma or man made superstitious nonsense.
Personally speaking God doesn't play favourites.

[alzee]

Having grown up around Muslims all my life, I think I and my fellow Hindus/sikhs understand their mentalities.

The moderate muslim does not exist IMHO. It's a complete and utter contradiction. Their religion comes before all else, whatever they say and do is for their own good and nobody else's. They will spout honey sweet words to the people they wanna grease but deep down their agenda is an islamist one.

As Allahs chosen people(only in their own heads) they are above criticism and blame. In their own heads they are right and everybody else's opinion is wrong.
They love playing the victim and racism card till it's worn out. Total and utter hypocrites. Their are so many different ideologies within Islam that the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing.
Deep, deep down the muslim will not rest till you, me, everybody is a Muslim. They are brainwashed from birth and indoctrinated in a mosque near you after normal school.
Their religion is a complete and utter rip off, of Jewish and Christian ideologies and the Quran(I've read it) is a mass contradiction and in most parts utterley nonsensical.
They turn inner city and town areas into islamic ghettoes, mosques and islamic schools on every corner. They do not want to integrate.
They say Islam means Peace, but it doesn't, it means submission, submission to their way of thinking and doing, no different to 'Naziism'.

You may think I hate muslims, I don't, some of my best friends are muslims, but and this is a big but, they do not follow the shia, sunni, wahabi ways, they are all sufis and other sects who have been persecuted to death by the nutty sects.
Wanna find a good and decent muslim speak to a Sufi, you can't go wrong.:)

Me I'm a non practising Hindu and do not adhere to any religious dogma or man made superstitious nonsense.
Personally speaking God doesn't play favourites.

It's ridiculous to say that moderate muslims don't exist. What about the Muslims who pay as much attention to their religion as you do to yours? They certainly don't come under the 'extremist' banner.

[jammasterj13]

I don't pay any attention to my religion or anybody else's. It's all a load of rubbish.

This OP is about 'Islam and the UK'. It's at the top in bold.

[swethirte]

Here's a thought experiment. Imagine there was a religion like Islam, but it happened to be founded by and largely comprised white people. The woolly-minded liberals would have no truck whatsoever with its preaching of violence, warfare, hatred towards outsiders, suppression of women, barbaric laws, etc. etc.

In fact such a religion once existed, and still has followers today. It's called Nazism.

It's no more racist to be anti-Islam than to be anti-Nazi, though they will of course play that card if it helps their cause. Islam, like Nazism, is a doctrine, not a race.

[angelx777]

im sick of religious freaks of anykind, they can fuck off

[smoky]

Well said Angela! :)

I know many Hindu/Sikhs whom seem to love preaching on about equality, however they fail to see their own religion is responsible for the caste system which preaches the opposite of equality.

[islamvslizards]

Islam is very divided between extreamist and the moderates. Having been on many anti-war marches and demo's ,why do so many moderate muslims keep their mouths shut when they see extreamists tarnishing their religeon?

sorry to ask a stupid question, but how is this the fault of the religion?

also, no muslim NEEDS to "speak out" against anything - thats what the police and courts are for. what would you have us do? create lynch mobs? start riots? million man marchs?

the truth is. muslims arent interested in what people are doing. because they are too busy trying to live and earn money for their families.

oh, and plotting to overthrow the UK (of course) :rolleyes:

why are you assuming that those sick fucks are doing something because their religion tells them to, or that somehow they are representative of all mulims everywhere?


Also why was their only a handful of muslims that spoke out against the muslim paedaphile gangs in Keighley?


why should muslims "speak out" about anything? answer me that at least. what does it have to do with islam? can you show me?


What would happen if we had a majority muslim cabinet


never gonna happen. 95% of the country is non muslim, i very much doubt that 5% who mostly dont even vote will be able to have much effect on anything.


For those that find this thread offensive GOOD.


good for you.

[islamvslizards]

Having grown up around Muslims all my life, I think I and my fellow Hindus/sikhs understand their mentalities.

The moderate muslim does not exist IMHO. It's a complete and utter contradiction. Their religion comes before all else, whatever they say and do is for their own good and nobody else's. They will spout honey sweet words to the people they wanna grease but deep down their agenda is an islamist one.


i could reply to this verbal diarrhoea, but instead ill quote imam ali ibn abu talib who said:

"the best reply to a fool is silence"

[jammasterj13]

Well said Angela! :)

I know many Hindu/Sikhs whom seem to love preaching on about equality, however they fail to see their own religion is responsible for the caste system which preaches the opposite of equality.
And do you not have class/caste system in the West or in Blighty , working class, middle class, upper class, royalty, and not forgetting the underclass(chavs).

In fact all cultures have a class/caste system some of us can admit it, some of it can't.
I don't know any hindus/sikhs who preach equality, but they do preach rampant materialism.

[jammasterj13]

i could reply to this verbal diarrhoea, but instead ill quote imam ali ibn abu talib who said:

"the best reply to a fool is silence"
What a cock.
You quote a paedophile imam, and don't practise what you preach.lol

I'm out of here the resident islam wacko's are arriving in droves, what was that about Islam and criticism?

Nice Cobra beer and bacon butty anyone?

[smoky]

And do you not have class/caste system in the West or in Blighty , working class, middle class, upper class, royalty, and not forgetting the underclass(chavs).

In fact all cultures have a class/caste system some of us can admit it, some of it can't.
I don't know any hindus/sikhs who preach equality, but they do preach rampant materialism.

No I do not have a class or caste system. I actually do believe in equality.

[jammasterj13]

No I do not have a class or caste system. I actually do believe in equality.
Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww wwwwwn!

[islamvslizards]

What a cock.
I'm out of here the resident islam wacko's are arriving in droves, what was that about Islam and criticism?


seeya

please come again.

[alzee]

What a cock.
You quote a paedophile imam, and don't practise what you preach.lol

I'm out of here the resident islam wacko's are arriving in droves, what was that about Islam and criticism?

Nice Cobra beer and bacon butty anyone?

Apply that sentiment to yourself and you're on the right track ^^

[scuzz]

Also why was their only a handful of muslims that spoke out against the muslim paedaphile gangs in Keighley?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bradford/7374398.stm

We have the right to expose all religeons and political parties

I was going to bring this up before, figured I'd get a screen full of bile. There's actually more to this - I know this, because Keighley is my home town. Channel 4 did a documentary on it, but were forced to pull it in case it incited racial hatred.

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=1847

[nirvana]

sorry to ask a stupid question, but how is this the fault of the religion?

also, no muslim NEEDS to "speak out" against anything - thats what the police and courts are for. what would you have us do? create lynch mobs? start riots? million man marchs?

the truth is. muslims arent interested in what people are doing. because they are too busy trying to live and earn money for their families.

oh, and plotting to overthrow the UK (of course) :rolleyes:

why are you assuming that those sick fucks are doing something because their religion tells them to, or that somehow they are representative of all mulims everywhere?



why should muslims "speak out" about anything? answer me that at least. what does it have to do with islam? can you show me?



never gonna happen. 95% of the country is non muslim, i very much doubt that 5% who mostly dont even vote will be able to have much effect on anything.



good for you.

Why should muslims speak out well the paedaphile ring in keighley was a ring made up of muslims targetting white girls. ,the only time the muslims spoke up is when this was exposed and they spoke up defending this paedaphile ring blaming racism.
If the moderate muslims wont speak up and indirectly defend this behaviour through then they are the enemy sorry.

[nirvana]

I was going to bring this up before, figured I'd get a screen full of bile. There's actually more to this - I know this, because Keighley is my home town. Channel 4 did a documentary on it, but were forced to pull it in case it incited racial hatred.

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=1847


There was also a muslim paedaphile ring in blackburn a while back. It saddens me that many muslims anger is directed at people who expose this ring and not the muslim paedaphiles themselves.

Also why do many anti racists defend these muslims ?

If these rings were confronted with support from moderate muslims then the bnp would lose the support.

[lostwonderer]

Well said Angela! :)

I know many Hindu/Sikhs whom seem to love preaching on about equality, however they fail to see their own religion is responsible for the caste system which preaches the opposite of equality.

It was in fact society and culture, rather than religion.

[islamvslizards]

Why should muslims speak out well the paedaphile ring in keighley was a ring made up of muslims targetting white girls. ,the only time the muslims spoke up is when this was exposed and they spoke up defending this paedaphile ring blaming racism.
If the moderate muslims wont speak up and indirectly defend this behaviour through then they are the enemy sorry.

thats a load of nonsense.

an isolated case of some sickos doing this, and before anyone says "we dont know the extent of it" - the last time we checked the rule was "innocent until proven guilty", or is that only for non muslims? one group of paedophiles and all muslims are dissed because they dont want to get involved?

and since they quite obviously werent doing anything in the name of their religion, why do papers add "muslim paedophiles", i cant believe the hypocrisy on this forum. in the other thread everyone was up in arms because the papers said "gay paedophiles", but when it comes to "muslim paedophiles" thats fine eh?

wow. the enlightenment of the members on this board is blinding.

and all of a sudden the whole muslim world is to blame and needs to denounce it?

whats wrong with leaving the police and courts to do their job? do muslims condoning or condemning it have any effect on anything?

[islamvslizards]

There was also a muslim paedaphile ring in blackburn a while back. It saddens me that many muslims anger is directed at people who expose this ring and not the muslim paedaphiles themselves.

Also why do many anti racists defend these muslims ?

If these rings were confronted with support from moderate muslims then the bnp would lose the support.

muslim anger isnt aimed at the exposers, its aimed at people who assume that the muslims "owe" an apology or whatever, or somehow if someone who happens to claim to be a muslim does something messed up, all of a sudden all muslims everywhere should drop what they are doing and protest or whatever.

its dumb. we dont owe anyone anything, and we dont need to "speak out" or act against anything, since thats the police's job.

if we did start mob law, all people would do was complain and moan that muslims are out of control or whatever.

no matter what we do, we will be attacked. so we remain silent. does this seem like a bad thing to you?

[lostwonderer]

The moderate muslim does not exist IMHO. It's a complete and utter contradiction. Their religion comes before all else, whatever they say and do is for their own good and nobody else's. They will spout honey sweet words to the people they wanna grease but deep down their agenda is an islamist one.

Yeah, because I'm sure you've met every single one, right? In order to come to that sort of viewpoint and tarnish them all with the same brush.

[nirvana]

thats a load of nonsense.

an isolated case of some sickos doing this, and before anyone says "we dont know the extent of it" - the last time we checked the rule was "innocent until proven guilty", or is that only for non muslims? one group of paedophiles and all muslims are dissed because they dont want to get involved?

and since they quite obviously werent doing anything in the name of their religion, why do papers add "muslim paedophiles", i cant believe the hypocrisy on this forum. in the other thread everyone was up in arms because the papers said "gay paedophiles", but when it comes to "muslim paedophiles" thats fine eh?

wow. the enlightenment of the members on this board is blinding.

and all of a sudden the whole muslim world is to blame and needs to denounce it?

whats wrong with leaving the police and courts to do their job? do muslims condoning or condemning it have any effect on anything?

Because everytime someone tried to expose this ring muslims came out in droves to defend these sickos.
Ann crier spoke about how muslim gangs were targetting under age girls and she was atacked called a racist etc.
The reason why I call them muslim paedaphiles is because

1 they are muslim

2 they have the support of the muslim community if they are exposed

[islamvslizards]

Because everytime someone tried to expose this ring muslims came out in droves to defend these sickos.

i find that a little hard to believe. please can i see some evidence?


2 they have the support of the muslim community if they are exposed

thats a pretty sweeping statement to make. evidence please. as much as you can find.

but ill say this - even if the communities DO support them. what does that have to do with islam?

[nirvana]

muslim anger isnt aimed at the exposers, its aimed at people who assume that the muslims "owe" an apology or whatever, or somehow if someone who happens to claim to be a muslim does something messed up, all of a sudden all muslims everywhere should drop what they are doing and protest or whatever.

its dumb. we dont owe anyone anything, and we dont need to "speak out" or act against anything, since thats the police's job.

if we did start mob law, all people would do was complain and moan that muslims are out of control or whatever.

no matter what we do, we will be attacked. so we remain silent. does this seem like a bad thing to you?

Maybe not indirectly supporting muslim paedaphiles would be a start.

[islamvslizards]

Maybe not indirectly supporting muslim paedaphiles would be a start.

mmhmm. see my previous post

[nirvana]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvkldPJZZC0&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fisupporttheresistance%2Eblogspot %2Ecom%2F2009%2F03%2Fbnp%2Duncover%2Dmuslim%2Dpaed ophile%2Dring%2Ehtml&feature=player_embedded

[islamvslizards]

thats the sum total of your proof?

[nirvana]

thats the sum total of your proof?

Most of it is my own observation when i visit keighley.

Are you defending these gangs ?

[adbasque]

Islam is very divided between extreamist and the moderates. Having been on many anti-war marches and demo's ,why do so many moderate muslims keep their mouths shut when they see extreamists tarnishing their religeon?


In two words, There's no extremism, when you say extremism as if to say some practice half of it. and some go to the extreme, which extreme?

It's either in Islam or it isn't, right?

Simple find out about Islam itself not the "so called" Muslims.
I can put a beard, go the mosque, shout hatred at people, incite hate and violence, does it mean I am a Muslim?

The reason the majority of Muslim don't get involved, is because they know who reall is behind the so called the "Muslim Extremists" and the many other names they were invented in the recent years, why would I get up and say anything, I know it has nothing to do with me, it has nothing to do with my faith, it has nothing to do with Islam.


Any twat out there can pretend to be a Muslim and do the exact opposite of what Islam teaches, because he was told and paid to do so, and in many cases they are not even Muslims.

A lot of people see, Kadafi as a Muslim, right? well let me tell one thing, he is not ana Arab, and even less a Muslim.

A muslim who tries to correct a holy book? a Muslim who tries to ban what Islam teaches, and then sends people to kill in the name of Islam?

If you guys can't grasp what's really behind Islam, and the people doing everything that is bad in the name of Islam just to discredit it and undermine it, this is not new, it's been going on for centuries and centuries.




Please dont call me a racist Ive exposed the bnp enough times.

You can't be a racist, this is not a race, and even if it were a race there's only one race, so don't worry about that.


Exposing the muslim paedaphile gangs.Its strange that they dont mention who this paedaphile ring is.

For those that find this thread offensive GOOD.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bradford/7374398.stm

We have the right to expose all religeons and political parties

There's no such a thing as a Muslim and a paedophile, the two don't go together, he is either a paedophile or he is a Muslim, you can't be both.

It's not because someone's name is Mohamed and he happened to be a paedophile that means he is a Muslim and a paedophile.

It's not because someone's name is John it means he is a Christian and paedophile.

These two things don't go together.
Same thing for homosexuality, you can't claim to be Muslim and a Homosexual, you either one or the other.

The Saudis (Royal family) are known for their homosexuality, are they Muslims? absolutely not, every Muslim out there would tell you what they really think of those bastards, they are not different than the Bush family and the others.

Why the Paedophiles in the Vatican are real Christians? of course not, a true Christian would never be a paedophile.

So get a grip people and stop being tossed about by the people who want you to be played like yoyos.

If you can't see through this I don't know what else anyone can tell you.

I tell you something, if a paedophile is caught under the sharia shagging a child he will be executed.

No prison, because he will never give up he will always be a paedophile, unless proven insane really sick and unaware of his actions, that is different, they'll try and cure his illness.

I suggest you find out about Islam not what some people who pretend to be Muslims do to undermine Islam.

How can you expose anything if you don't know what's really going on.

[scuzz]

mmhmm. see my previous post

Sadly, the push was from The Muslim Political Affairs Committee (MPAC)

Got quotes, sadly the page is off-line.

It was a last minute rush to get this biased documentary postponed, but we did it. MPACUK readers rushed to register their dismay at linking race with paedophiles; the police registered their concern by stating that it could cause racial tensions and MPAC contacted 5 MPs and a Lord to ask them to raise this with Channel 4. This is why lobbying works and why Muslims need to know their MPs.

This small success by the Grace of Allah, the hard work of the e-group and the personal interest shown by our Parliamentary representatives, show that when we do make an effort, we get results. And that is why we demand that the mosques actively lobby and teach their congregation the importance of politics. With Allah’s blessing and our deeds we can and will make a difference. If we all mobilize to the man, woman and child, then the BNP, Zionist, Islamophobes can all be beaten. The key is everyone participating.

Local and European elections take place throughout Britain in June and broadcasters are duty-bound not to transmit material which is either intended to create racial hatred or which could inadvertently stir up racial tension.

The real problem is the culture of silence when it might possibly offend someone. As a result, other than oblique references, there's very little from official sources.

Quote from Ann Cryer - MP for Keighley.

I believe there is a very strong cultural reason, it's nothing to do with the religion, let's make it quite clear, its to do with the Asian culture, which wants these young men to marry these very young girls from their village, usually in Mayapore, and as with any other young men, they are seeking relationships elsewhere, and the sophisticated white woman wouldn't have anything to do with them because they understand that, at the end of the day, they are seeking sex, not genuine relationships and therefore the only outlet left to them is to look for very young girls through this organised sex ring that we are seeing in Keighley.

I tried hard to get the local community to deal with the problem, but all I got was a slap in the face... I have been told that I have brought the Myrapore community into disrepute... I'm not doing it... In Keighley, the view is don't talk about things to do with Asians.

My hope is that this adverse publicity will embarrass these young men into more appropriate behaviour. The Asian community, particularly the women, could get involved and persuade the young men of the error of their ways.


However, there's very little in the form of outcry from the Asian population, and I think its fair to say that silence does not equal condemnation which is what is deserved.

Sadly its a prime example of reverse-discrimination reporting. Now before people go loony about that statement, open another window, go to Google and type "Stephen Lawrence" - 197,000 results for a crime (and yes it was a crime) that happened 16 years ago. Stabbed twice, and died at a bus stop.

Now type "Kriss Donald" - 15,900 results for a more recent crime (2004) that was entirely racially motivated. He was kidnapped, stabbed 13 times. He sustained internal injuries to three arteries, one of his lungs, his liver and a kidney. He was castrated, had his tongue cut out, was doused in petrol, set on fire and left to die.

Times this case featured on the National News - 3

[adbasque]

Having grown up around Muslims all my life, I think I and my fellow Hindus/sikhs understand their mentalities.

The moderate muslim does not exist IMHO. It's a complete and utter contradiction. Their religion comes before all else, whatever they say and do is for their own good and nobody else's. They will spout honey sweet words to the people they wanna grease but deep down their agenda is an islamist one.


Evidence ? do you have any evidence to show that Islam is full of contradictions?


As Allahs chosen people(only in their own heads) they are above criticism and blame. In their own heads they are right and everybody else's opinion is wrong.
They love playing the victim and racism card till it's worn out. Total and utter hypocrites. Their are so many different ideologies within Islam that the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing.
Deep, deep down the muslim will not rest till you, me, everybody is a Muslim. They are brainwashed from birth and indoctrinated in a mosque near you after normal school.

You don't hate Muslims :)
I can see that:rolleyes:


They turn inner city and town areas into islamic ghettoes, mosques and islamic schools on every corner. They do not want to integrate.
Hindus do integrate, do they?
I am British I was born here, I reverted (converted) to Islam, which integration you're talking about?

Are you more English than I am? :)


You may think I hate muslims, I don't, some of my best friends are muslims, but and this is a big but, they do not follow the shia, sunni, wahabi ways, they are all sufis and other sects who have been persecuted to death by the nutty sects.

I don't think you hate Muslims, I know you hate Muslims, that bullshit you just said my best friends are Sufis, you said it, a "sect" remember, a sect is not a religion. and that's why you like them :)


Wanna find a good and decent muslim speak to a Sufi, you can't go wrong.:)

coz they do the same things as you :)

Me I'm a non practising Hindu and do not adhere to any religious dogma or man made superstitious nonsense.
Personally speaking God doesn't play favourites.

That explains a lot of things, not practicing, meaning that way I won't be attacked in trying to promote my own sect/religion, is that it?

When you said you're a hindu, I understand say no more :)

You got it all figured out, right?
That wouldn't surprise me one bit



What is a wahabi and a Sunni?
show me the difference please between a wahabbi and a Sunni? don't copy paste me anything tell me from your own knowledge?
you read the Quoran and you seem to have a great knowledge, so from your knowledge why don't you tell the rest of us brainwashed people what you discovered about Islam?


Their religion is a complete and utter rip off, of Jewish and Christian ideologies and the Quran(I've read it) is a mass contradiction and in most parts utterley nonsensical.

Why don't you show us all of these contradictions, it's easy to just say I read it and it's crap, isn't it?
Are you trying to get Christians, and Jews on your side all against Muslims, very tactful ;)
next please?

Back it with evidence, can you?


They say Islam means Peace, but it doesn't, it means submission, submission to their way of thinking and doing, no different to 'Naziism'.

Islam is a religion, Nazism is a regime, a political regime, Islam is a religion of Peace, it doesn't mean you can walk all over them, what you want is a religion that bends to suit your personal selfish interest, Islam looks at individuals, communities, society and humanity.

Submission to their maker, remember him, euh.. I doubt you do:rolleyes:
You people talk about being tolerant, the truth is you don't tolerate anyone who's different than you, that is the truth :)

Did a muslim knock on your door and forced you to go to the mosque? what it is that is antagonising you?
there 1.5 billion Muslim world wide, from every origin, colour and background, why can't you respect them for what they believe, what makes you think (except your arrogance) that you know any better than them?

[adbasque]

In fact all cultures have a class/caste system some of us can admit it, some of it can't.
I don't know any hindus/sikhs who preach equality, but they do preach rampant materialism.

Islam doesn't have a class system :)
look it up, people are equal regardless whether they are big small rich strong weak, and that's why they usually dress all in white to represent equality.

You dug your own grave but as IslamvsLizard said, I shouldn't reply to you
For the simple reason, you came on attacking, you're not interested in debating, you pretend not to hate Muslims, while your words says it all :)

Now have a good time

I don't have time to waste when I hear liquid S**

[adbasque]

I don't pay any attention to my religion or anybody else's. It's all a load of rubbish.

This OP is about 'Islam and the UK'. It's at the top in bold.

Your religion is probably a load of rubbish, I don't think of my religion as being a load of rubbish

Let's be honest, it's a called a religion when it was sent down by GOD, right?
Who's the Hindu Prophet, what was his evidence that he was a prophet?

I'd like to know,

I mean There are three religions as far as I am aware:rolleyes:

[adbasque]

and since they quite obviously werent doing anything in the name of their religion, why do papers add "muslim paedophiles", i cant believe the hypocrisy on this forum. in the other thread everyone was up in arms because the papers said "gay paedophiles", but when it comes to "muslim paedophiles" thats fine eh?

wow. the enlightenment of the members on this board is blinding.

and all of a sudden the whole muslim world is to blame and needs to denounce it?

whats wrong with leaving the police and courts to do their job? do muslims condoning or condemning it have any effect on anything?

You know as well as I do that it's not the paedophile ring that they are concerned about, they couldn't give a toss, what they want anything to label the whole of the Islamic world, Islamic history, Muslims around the globe, anything to do with Islam.

How many times in the last decades we've had similar cases, not necessarily about paedophilia, but other things, where they try and stick a label on Muslims?
And the end it turned out either not guilty or not even Muslims

Yes if it's white man that is a Paedophile, they blur his picture sometimes they don't even give his name, sometime they do, and when they do, do you hear anything about him being a Jew, Christian, or any other cast system?
when someone is born with the name Ali, when he grows up and decided that he couldn't care less about Islam, robs a bank, ahhhhhh the Muslim robbed a bank.

Even if he denies Islam as his religion, he still is a Muslim, because his name is Ali.

Also the way they put it, OH my god a ring of paedophile!!

I didn't hear people up in arms when the member of Tony Blair's cabinet was caught and he is a confirmed paedophile, nobody paid any attention to it. Lord something I forgot his name, but I will look it up.

You see the double standard and hypocrisy of this whole society, I will not believe that British People are not segregators, all it takes someone to mention the "Islam" and everybody comes out of the woodwork.

How hypocrites is our society!

[adbasque]

Here's a thought experiment. Imagine there was a religion like Islam, but it happened to be founded by and largely comprised white people. The woolly-minded liberals would have no truck whatsoever with its preaching of violence, warfare, hatred towards outsiders, suppression of women, barbaric laws, etc. etc.

In fact such a religion once existed, and still has followers today. It's called Nazism.

It's no more racist to be anti-Islam than to be anti-Nazi, though they will of course play that card if it helps their cause. Islam, like Nazism, is a doctrine, not a race.

Can I ask you how much do you personally know about Islam?
Where did you come with this conclusion that Islam is a doctrine, made by whom?
when?
How?
etc.. can you substantiate your claims?
Oppressing women? have you really checked Islam about Oppressing women?
Have you read Surat Al Nissa?
A whole sura dedicated to a woman?
I haven't seen yet a sura dedicated to a man
Do you know that Islam was the first to give a woman her full rights, before Islam a woman was considered a second citizen, in some places she was less than a slave, do you know all of that?

While in the west they were dragged by the hair, a woman in Islamic world lead an entire Army, a woman was a teacher, teaching people to read, write, a woman here in the west until 1920 she couldn't vote.

So you have all figured out, and people dare to talk about brainwashing, the brainwashing is when you take things without asking questions, is when you believe every shit you grew up with to be the truth.

remember I am a westerner, I grew up here, just like anyone, Islam was not my first religion, I had to do 20+ years of thorough research, personally, I didn't listen to anyone.

I had to trace everything back to it's source.
How much have you done?
Convince me, :)

[adbasque]

im sick of religious freaks of anykind, they can fuck off

Try not to use that kind of language for a start, I am religious, do you know me?
Do you know if I am a freak or not?
How can you generalise?

If I generalise and treat all the atheist as freaks, you'll be jumping up and down wouldn't you?
what gives you the right to tarnish everyone?

Do you know every single religious person out there, and you figured out that they are all freaks?

Sometimes it helps when you think before letting rubbish of ones mouth

[adbasque]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvkldPJZZC0&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fisupporttheresistance%2Eblogspot %2Ecom%2F2009%2F03%2Fbnp%2Duncover%2Dmuslim%2Dpaed ophile%2Dring%2Ehtml&feature=player_embedded

So far all I hear in this video, it's said Asian men, Not Mulim Men
have you got another video, that specifically mentions Muslim men?

Asian men could be, Atheist, Muslim, Hindus, Sikhs, Christian,

I haven't heard anything about Muslim men, except the title

[nirvana]

So far all I hear in this video, it's said Asian men, Not Mulim Men
have you got another video, that specifically mentions Muslim men?

Asian men could be, Atheist, Muslim, Hindus, Sikhs, Christian,

I haven't heard anything about Muslim men, except the title


Sorry its not musim paedaphiles its asians that go to mosque :D
They cant use the word muslim as the community comes out with anger which could lead to civil unrest.

[adbasque]

Islam is very divided between extreamist and the moderates. Having been on many anti-war marches and demo's ,why do so many moderate muslims keep their mouths shut when they see extreamists tarnishing their religeon?

Also why was their only a handful of muslims that spoke out against the muslim paedaphile gangs in Keighley?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttz8-ucWhYc&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Flancaster%2Dbnp%2Dfreespeech%2Eb logspot%2Ecom%2F&feature=player_embedded


What would happen if we had a majority muslim cabinet

Please dont call me a racist Ive exposed the bnp enough times.

Exposing the muslim paedaphile gangs.Its strange that they dont mention who this paedaphile ring is.

For those that find this thread offensive GOOD.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bradford/7374398.stm

We have the right to expose all religeons and political parties

The BBC title
Police in child sex ring inquiry



A major police inquiry is under way after a BBC investigation revealed a paedophile ring thought to be targeting schoolgirls in West Yorkshire.

One former victim said up to 50 girls, some as young as seven, were taken in vans to houses where they were forced to have sex, often with several men.

Seventeen suspected paedophiles are understood to be under investigation.

West Yorkshire Police confirmed that a 37-year-old man had been arrested and bailed in connection with the claims.

The force said in a statement: "West Yorkshire Police take all forms of child abuse seriously and we are committed to investigating and disrupting any such abuse.

"Where there is evidence of grooming our focus would be on both helping the child as a victim and prosecuting the offender."


He said he would be waiting for me and he'd kill me - he threatened all my family
Schoolgirl victim

One girl, who was 12 when her ordeal began, told BBC Look North she was introduced by a school friend to a man on the internet.

She told BBC Look North that for the next three years he and 27 other men forced her to have sex almost every day.

"I went in this bedroom and had to have sex with him and then with other men, about six of them," she said.

"If we were going to do anything before we went to the house, a camera would be set up in the back of the van.

"He would pick us up and one would be in the back with a few other men while the others were at the house waiting."


'Slash' threat

Most of the girls are believed to be pupils at two schools in West Yorkshire and most, said the victim, now self-harm as a result of their ordeal.

She said she and her family were threatened with violence if she revealed what was going on.

"He said he would be waiting for me and he'd kill me. He threatened all my family and he knows where I live.

"He threatened to kill my Dad, he threatened to kill my Mum. He said he would kill her slow, slash her with a knife.

"He said to me 'I will always be watching you. No matter what, remember I will always be watching you'."


I want to know where did you get the title as Muslims?

Which article or clip?
can you please help us here?

[nirvana]

The difference is if there was a christian church and many of the christian men got together and started to groom the young asian girls and even waited outside their schools ,the rest of the christians etc would be up in arms over it.

You would have every anti-racist organisation getting involved . Because its white girls being groomed and abused by asian men that go to mosque ,people are so scared to get involved in case they are seen as racist.

Then people complain when the fascist bnp gets involved. Isnt it a shame that insome communities political correctness has gone so far that people turn to the bnp .

Even thoe the bnp is controlled opposition.

[swethirte]

There's no such a thing as a Muslim and a paedophile, the two don't go together, he is either a paedophile or he is a Muslim, you can't be both.

It's not because someone's name is Mohamed and he happened to be a paedophile that means he is a Muslim and a paedophile.


In a sense the first statement is true, since Islam doesn't recognise the concept of paedophilia. Why? Because a certain very famous person named Mohamed married a 6-year-old girl named Ayesha. Following the example of their prophet, this is the legal age of consent under Muslim law.

[flickflack]

I think that there is a lot of Muslim extremism in the UK. Why else would London be called Londonistan? Also, the Muslim terrorists who attacked inside the UK was grown up in the UK and apparently exposed to Muslim radicalism and became terrorists.
It's okay to question a religion when it obviously has some extremities. Extremism is such an ugly thing, and a enemy of humanity.

[nayan]

Having grown up around Muslims all my life, I think I and my fellow Hindus/sikhs understand their mentalities.

The moderate muslim does not exist IMHO. It's a complete and utter contradiction. Their religion comes before all else, whatever they say and do is for their own good and nobody else's. They will spout honey sweet words to the people they wanna grease but deep down their agenda is an islamist one.

As Allahs chosen people(only in their own heads) they are above criticism and blame. In their own heads they are right and everybody else's opinion is wrong.
They love playing the victim and racism card till it's worn out. Total and utter hypocrites. Their are so many different ideologies within Islam that the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing.
Deep, deep down the muslim will not rest till you, me, everybody is a Muslim. They are brainwashed from birth and indoctrinated in a mosque near you after normal school.
Their religion is a complete and utter rip off, of Jewish and Christian ideologies and the Quran(I've read it) is a mass contradiction and in most parts utterley nonsensical.
They turn inner city and town areas into islamic ghettoes, mosques and islamic schools on every corner. They do not want to integrate.
They say Islam means Peace, but it doesn't, it means submission, submission to their way of thinking and doing, no different to 'Naziism'.

You may think I hate muslims, I don't, some of my best friends are muslims, but and this is a big but, they do not follow the shia, sunni, wahabi ways, they are all sufis and other sects who have been persecuted to death by the nutty sects.
Wanna find a good and decent muslim speak to a Sufi, you can't go wrong.:)

Me I'm a non practising Hindu and do not adhere to any religious dogma or man made superstitious nonsense.
Personally speaking God doesn't play favourites.

I have to agree with this.

I grew up in a muslim community, and yes 'they will spout honey sweet words to the people they wanna grease but deep down their agenda is an islamist one. ' 'They will not rest until rest till you, me, everybody is a Muslim.' It's absolutely true. At this time, I have alot of muslim friends, I do respect them. They can be your friend and never talk about religion, but deep inside they believe what the Quran says, 'All non-muslims will go to hell'. You see, there are somethings people will never understand.

I was bought up a Hindu, but i've moved on from that. My parents are religious, I do respect that, but I gotta do my thing. I see everyone as one.

[nayan]

Anyone think the Bermuda Traingle has anything to do with this?

http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://dana.ucc.nau.edu/~mlz8/Images/582px-The_Bermuda_Triangle.jpg&imgrefurl=http://dana.ucc.nau.edu/~mlz8/Hydrates/bermuda.html&usg=__-9jcXfUbvQXndHFUw0CRO0xnWTk=&h=599&w=582&sz=63&hl=en&start=12&um=1&tbnid=TEmj77-QNspn_M:&tbnh=135&tbnw=131&prev=/images%3Fq%3DBermuda%2BTriangle%26hl%3Den%26client %3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-GB:official%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1

[adbasque]

In a sense the first statement is true, since Islam doesn't recognise the concept of paedophilia. Why? Because a certain very famous person named Mohamed married a 6-year-old girl named Ayesha. Following the example of their prophet, this is the legal age of consent under Muslim law.

Oh really?

:D I told you you don't know what you're talking about, Oh now Aisha was six was she?
Besides in those days a 12 year old woman was a real woman, look it up

Mohamed also married a much older woman, oh No we don't mention that because it throws your argument out of the window.

It's ok when he married his first wife 20 years older than him, he didn't remarry until she passed away fom old age.
He did not touch Aisha until she reached puberty, I told you before you debate anything do a search, so far what you said, I heard it a million times, that's the only argument people could easily twist.

Paedophilia isn't condemened in Islam? that just shows how much you know about Islam, I am afraid all you know is what you heard on your TV screen or some shill groups told you.

You haven't done one hour of research in the matter, basically haven't got a clue what is Islam or what is it stands for, but you can find the time to just happily slander :) right?

Anyway believe what you want.
Until you come up with something more substantial, I am sorry I have to cut it short here

[adbasque]

religious, I do respect that, but I gotta do my thing. I see everyone as one.

Except if they are Muslims, right? :) typical of some Hindus, you don't talk about Hinduism, but deep down you are a Hindu :)

And of course you know every single Muslim on this planet, right> you met them all one by one?

It works both ways, Go on

[adbasque]

The difference is if there was a christian church and many of the christian men got together and started to groom the young asian girls and even waited outside their schools ,the rest of the christians etc would be up in arms over it.

You would have every anti-racist organisation getting involved . Because its white girls being groomed and abused by asian men that go to mosque ,people are so scared to get involved in case they are seen as racist.

Then people complain when the fascist bnp gets involved. Isnt it a shame that insome communities political correctness has gone so far that people turn to the bnp .

Even thoe the bnp is controlled opposition.

Nirvana, Nirvana, you haven't yet answered my question, where did you get this that those alleged Asian men were Muslims?

Show me some evidence please

[adbasque]

I think that there is a lot of Muslim extremism in the UK. Why else would London be called Londonistan? Also, the Muslim terrorists who attacked inside the UK was grown up in the UK and apparently exposed to Muslim radicalism and became terrorists.
It's okay to question a religion when it obviously has some extremities. Extremism is such an ugly thing, and a enemy of humanity.

Tell me, you mean like the ones who blew the trains and the bus in London, on 7/7 or the 19 hijackers in NY, or the ones in Madrid?


Is it those people you're reffering to?

[gods sun]

muslim followers are like catholic brits lol

they follow tradition but never follow rules.

[swethirte]

Oh really?

:D I told you you don't know what you're talking about, Oh now Aisha was six was she?
Besides in those days a 12 year old woman was a real woman, look it up

Mohamed also married a much older woman, oh No we don't mention that because it throws your argument out of the window.

It's ok when he married his first wife 20 years older than him, he didn't remarry until she passed away fom old age.
He did not touch Aisha until she reached puberty, I told you before you debate anything do a search, so far what you said, I heard it a million times, that's the only argument people could easily twist.

Paedophilia isn't condemened in Islam? that just shows how much you know about Islam, I am afraid all you know is what you heard on your TV screen or some shill groups told you.

You haven't done one hour of research in the matter, basically haven't got a clue what is Islam or what is it stands for, but you can find the time to just happily slander :) right?

Anyway believe what you want.
Until you come up with something more substantial, I am sorry I have to cut it short here

I didn't mention his older wives because gerontophilia isn't a revolting crime against humanity. Ayesha was 6 when he married her. It's true he waited till she was 9 before he had sex with her, so that makes it all right, does it?

[flickflack]

Tell me, you mean like the ones who blew the trains and the bus in London, on 7/7 or the 19 hijackers in NY, or the ones in Madrid?


Is it those people you're reffering to?

I was talking about the London 7/7 bombers. They must have been indoctrinated inside the UK.

[nirvana]

It seems there are so many asians who go to mosque will allways defend other asians that go to mosque.

Typical muslim community response
these men who are abusing young white girls are not muslim paedaphiles they are criminals and nothing to do with the muslim community.

But if you expose these men then we will come out and call you racist and trouble makers.

Maybe if the muslim community wouldnt defend these men and let people talk about it etc ,solutions could be made . But this whole silencing by their community is wrong and disgusting.

[nirvana]

I was talking about the London 7/7 bombers. They must have been indoctrinated inside the UK.


The whole 7/7 thing is a very dodgy one which i think the uk government had abit to do with someway or another.

[adbasque]

I have to agree with this.

they will spout honey sweet words to the people they wanna grease but deep down their agenda is an islamist one.

It seems to me you're the one who's spouting honey sweet words, calling them your friends, while in reality, you ain't :)



At this time, I have alot of muslim friends, I do respect them. They can be your friend and never talk about religion, but deep inside they believe what the Quran says, 'All non-muslims will go to hell'. You see, there are somethings people will never understand.

You're very quick at calling people Friends oh so because they believe what the Quoran says, they are not really your friends, is that it?

I don't believe you know the meaning of respect, or Frienship, and judging from what you're saying, deep down, they are not really your friends until they give up their belief and religion, right? that's what it comes down to :)


I was bought up a Hindu, but i've moved on from that. My parents are religious, I do respect that, but I gotta do my thing. I see everyone as one.

I wonder if you feel the same way about your other friends who are Hindus?

and as I said before if you really saw everbody as one, as you claim, you wouldn't be saying these things, you see everyone as one unless they are Muslims, that's a completely different ball game :)

[adbasque]

The whole 7/7 thing is a very dodgy one which i think the uk government had abit to do with someway or another.

had a bit to do with it?

OK Nirvana whatever you say I am not going any further, carry on with your thread mate :)

[adbasque]

I was talking about the London 7/7 bombers. They must have been indoctrinated inside the UK.

If you believe that mate than I don't think we can carry on debating any further.

Yes just like Charles de Menzez was a pure accident, right?
And 9/11 was 19 Muslims who were drinking vodka the night before they knew they were going to meet their maker, while in Islam the drinking of Alcohol is forbiden? right?

Someone who truly believes in Allah, is about to sacrifice himself in his name is going to wake up in front of him all drung, stinking of Vodka and whisky?

That's right!! this is what Islam teaches us wow.

Anyway you guys are free to believe what you want.

[adbasque]

I didn't mention his older wives because gerontophilia isn't a revolting crime against humanity. Ayesha was 6 when he married her. It's true he waited till she was 9 before he had sex with her, so that makes it all right, does it?

She was not 6,

get your facts right, get real facts and she wasn't 9 either

[adbasque]

It seems there are so many asians who go to mosque will allways defend other asians that go to mosque.


Defend them if they know they are not guilty


Typical muslim community response

Any community


these men who are abusing young white girls are not muslim paedaphiles they are criminals and nothing to do with the muslim community.

Why would they protect them then?
You said they are not Muslims, they are criminals, indeed if it has nothing to do with the Muslim community mate, why do you want the Muslim community to get involved?



But if you expose these men then we will come out and call you racist and trouble makers.

I wouldn't call you racist, I will assist you to expose any criminal, Muslim or other


Maybe if the muslim community wouldnt defend these men and let people talk about it etc ,solutions could be made . But this whole silencing by their community is wrong and disgusting.
Go ahead talk about it, I am not defending anyone, but isn't it odd to accuse without having solid evidence, even on the clip they said, it's still on going investigation, besides you still haven't answered my question.

They did not say Muslim Asians, they said Asian men, how did you put the two together? where did you come up with the fact they were Muslims?

[flickflack]

If you believe that mate than I don't think we can carry on debating any further.

Yes just like Charles de Menzez was a pure accident, right?
And 9/11 was 19 Muslims who were drinking vodka the night before they knew they were going to meet their maker, while in Islam the drinking of Alcohol is forbiden? right?

Someone who truly believes in Allah, is about to sacrifice himself in his name is going to wake up in front of him all drung, stinking of Vodka and whisky?

That's right!! this is what Islam teaches us wow.

Anyway you guys are free to believe what you want.

Take a look here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YD190HVYHUI

And look up the word Londonistan.

[nirvana]

We all know it was 19 muslims who crashed into the twin towers theres too much that does not add up the same with 7/7.

Ive not got all the answers but theres a bigger enemy that is manipulating us.

[equilibrium]

Firstly in response to "jammaster" who labelles himself " a non practising hindu" if you are not focused on your religion why not call yourself a non-religious person, why mention the hindu religion? I take it neither you or aany of your family go to temple? if you don't then you're in the minority. I have many hindu/sikh friends, who even though aren't religious go to temple every week or a few times a month. They say that everyone in the hindu/sikh community does the same. Which means they all pratice to an extent.

A moderate muslim doesn't exist? I was born a muslim to a muslim family but I was sent to a catholic shool and participated in all aspects of school, including going to mass. In my mid teens I did a lot of studying on buddhism and found it to be a greatly insightful religion full of wonderful wisdom and teachings which apply to everyday life. SO I may be labelled a muslim on my birth certificate or whatever but I also believe in christian and buddhist philosophies. Does this make me an extremist in all three religions? Not really, I'm just someone who has a lot of time and respect for view points and cultures. I don't preach any religion or ideology to anyone and dont enforce my opinions on anyone. I will comment or offer my opinion when asked though.

People who claim to read the Quoran and got it's "evil message" are very easily led. The Quoran is written in arabic it's a language that most people, including myself, don't read. Therefore anything we do read is a translation, someones interpretation and different versions give different translations. I read small parts of the quoran a long number of years ago and found this to be the case. Those who have "read" it have probably read interpretted quotes and accepted it unconditionally like sheep. This may even be how some people are manipulated into carrying out horrible acts in the name of religion. I haven't read it all so I can not say that it does not contain any violent teachings but I can say the parts I read when I was younger contained teachings of respect, truthfulness and giving to charity. Yes it is very similar to christianity and judism but then the major religions are all very similar. They each claim to be the more complete version of the predecessor. If you believe in man made religion then you could accept they follow from one another.

I think what the person who was asking why muslims should speak out and why the papers had labelled them muslim paedophiles meant that if it was a group of ordinary men who happened to be protestants for instance, they wouldn't have been labelled "protestant paedophiles" and an apology would not have been expected from the protestant community. I also think the person who said this is expressing their distance from people and groups like this. There is a tendancy to label people as "muslim" which i completely disagree with. I think traditions and culture has a lot to do with it. For instance pakistani muslims dress, act, speak and have completely different mentality to iranian or turkish muslims and they are different to say arab muslims. Iranian muslims, although made out to sound crazy (so that america can attack iran) go much more with historical traditions and culture than religious ones. There are also different branches of islam, just as there is wit christianity, therefore not all muslims go by the same rules.

I was born muslim but also belive in other faiths and religions. I take the good from each and use it all to help me lead a better life and to help others.

As for the matter of moderate muslims etc speaking out against the extremeist, I WOULD LOVE TO! the only problem is the media doesn't give us a voice. I have written to credible newspapers and to television news stations but I have never received a response or anything. What else can I do? If anyone can arrange for me to speak out on television or have an article published I would gladly do it. Also having a rally/ demonstration is something people who are organised etc do. Moderate muslims aren't organised through a network. extremists have their networks to preach their extremist message and carry out acts but the moderates don't care enough about religion to do this, so how could they all be in contact to arrange a protest.

Exetremists anger me so much and I would really like to condem them nationally but I don't have the resources unfortunately.

(Also I'd just like to mention I was interviewed once by the BBC on the ex-president of Iran visitng St Andrews in Scotland. The interview lasted 5 minutes, I'm not a supporter of the Iranian regime as I don't think politics and religion should mix, when the interview aired however it was edited and appeared as though I did support them. They either ignore the moderates altogether or else put a spin on it to make us look extremist.)

[adbasque]

Take a look here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YD190HVYHUI

And look up the word Londonistan.

I can't watch it right now, I don't know about you, but in my area when between 18:00 and 20:00 impossible to watch a clip or download anything big. it simply hangs.

But I will watch it later, and besides, you believe anything that the Zionist Media is telling you especially CNN, you might as well believe what Fox News is saying or the BBC

Before I watch it I know, it's a tissue of lies and made up by the Zionists the same people who are still pulling the strings right before your eyes, every generation they come up with an enemy except them.

Everybody else is evil except them

a Muslim is nothing but a normal guy who worships his maker and get on with his own life.

the sooner you understand this the sooner we all get together and fight the real enemy if you're just happy yo slander the easy target go right ahead mate.

[swethirte]

She was not 6,

get your facts right, get real facts and she wasn't 9 either

I'm sorry to have to inform you that you are incorrect http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha#Marriage_to_Muhammad and please check out the citations.

[adbasque]

We all know it was 19 muslims who crashed into the twin towers theres too much that does not add up the same with 7/7.

Ive not got all the answers but theres a bigger enemy that is manipulating us.

Who is "we" you and people like you?
I am not part of the "we"

I know it had nothing whatsoever to do with muslims, nothing
evidence??? :D

Even the idiot in America today knows it had nothing to do with Muslims or any ordinary people, and you think you understand what's going on?

What you want perhaps is to discover a huge network of Muslims doing all of these evil things, you'd be a very happy man.

Click

[nirvana]

Who is "we" you and people like you?
I am not part of the "we"

I know it had nothing whatsoever to do with muslims, nothing
evidence??? :D

Even the idiot in America today knows it had nothing to do with Muslims or any ordinary people, and you think you understand what's going on?

What you want perhaps is to discover a huge network of Muslims doing all of these evil things, you'd be a very happy man.

Click

Ive all ready discovered the net work the paedaphile ring that muslims keep silent about till someone tries to expose it.

[adbasque]

I'm sorry to have to inform you that you are incorrect http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha#Marriage_to_Muhammad and please check out the citations.

I am not incorrect, he said 6 or 7, there's a question mark, meaning they don't know, it could be 15/17 or anything.

There's no definte answer to this.
and consumated the marriage when she was 12


There are various versions, on how old she was when the marriage was consumated, and believing a historian such as Denise Spellberg?

You might as well believe George Bush while you're at it

Come on Wikipedia is not the centre of information, I asked you whether you have done the real research my friend :) personally researched the allegations.

Anyone could look up wikipedia and say here it is, it must be true, as if to say it was on CNN and Fox News it must be true

Come on you should know better than that.

You have no idea how many people despise Islam and they are doing everything they can to undermine it to tarnish it, to ridicule it, just ask yourself why?

Ask the question and start looking for answers you will be amazed what you could find.

I had the same views too longtime ago, but Thank God I now found out the truth.

I am not asking you to listen to me, or anyone, go out there and find out for yourself.

[adbasque]

Ive all ready discovered the net work the paedaphile ring that muslims keep silent about till someone tries to expose it.

where is it?
why didn't you expose it?
all you said so far is a generalisation "Muslim paedophile ring" is that it?

where is your evidence?
show me some evidence?
real evidence

I just discovered a ring of paedophiles of Christians/Atheists/Jews that the community keep silent about.

See how easy to say things?

[adbasque]

Sorry its not musim paedaphiles its asians that go to mosque :D
They cant use the word muslim as the community comes out with anger which could lead to civil unrest.

Yes there was an Imam for 23 years in a remote town in Algeria, North Africa for 23 years they thought he was an Imam he was a radical, until the day he got caught he was a 100% Jewish.

But nobody heard about it, they quickly burried the story, I was there and he was moved to Europe for his safety.

He nearly turned the whole of the community into radicals.

That was back in 1989

Anyone can go to the mosque, especially nowdays, they spy on Muslims, they learn their habits, they do things in the name of Islam.

That doesn't make them Muslims, some followers (sheeple) do believe whom ever is preaching to them, like that syrian guy can't even remember his name.

People are spreading lies day and night, especially the Zionist machine.
What I mean by Zionists not necessarily Jews, Jews are victims of the same machine.

No need to go out there and pick on Jews, because I know some people would love to do that.

So seperate the two, Zion and Jew

For instance we can say
Christian Zionist, Jewish Zionist, Muslim Zionist, what does it mean?

All it means they were born into a family of that religion, it doesn't mean it's their faith.

[nayan]

It seems to me you're the one who's spouting honey sweet words, calling them your friends, while in reality, you ain't :)




You're very quick at calling people Friends oh so because they believe what the Quoran says, they are not really your friends, is that it?

I don't believe you know the meaning of respect, or Frienship, and judging from what you're saying, deep down, they are not really your friends until they give up their belief and religion, right? that's what it comes down to :)



I wonder if you feel the same way about your other friends who are Hindus?

and as I said before if you really saw everbody as one, as you claim, you wouldn't be saying these things, you see everyone as one unless they are Muslims, that's a completely different ball game :)

I understand what you mean. I have moved on from hinduism, and you won't know what I am deep down.


deep down, they are not really your friends until they give up their belief and religion, right? that's what it comes down to :)

They are my friends, and me and my muslim friends don't talk about religion as much.

I understand what you mean here, it's true. But i'll be nice to them, no matter what their beliefs are, as all those beliefs is all false.

[adbasque]

I understand what you mean here, it's true. But i'll be nice to them, no matter what their beliefs are, as all those beliefs is all false.

Being nice to people is a good thing, nobody will dispute that, regardless what the other person is like, so long as there is a mutual respect :)

You should say, I believe all of these beliefs are false, you can't prove either way.
So don't be so certain those beliefs are false, you see what I mean?

Unless you have evidence of them not being real or false, you can't be affirmative.

:)

[aitch]

Have I missed the point somewhere ..... correct me if I am wrong but aren't there far more White Paedophiles in the UK than Muslim ?? :rolleyes:

[nirvana]

Have I missed the point somewhere ..... correct me if I am wrong but aren't there far more White Paedophiles in the UK than Muslim ?? :rolleyes:


Yes your proboly right.

The difference being you do not see a group of white paedaphiles grooming and targetting young asian girls and waiting outside the school gates.:rolleyes:

If this was the case then every anti-racist group would be speaking up about this.

:rolleyes:

[adbasque]

Yes your proboly right.

The difference being you do not see a group of white paedaphiles grooming and targetting young asian girls and waiting outside the school gates.:rolleyes:

If this was the case then every anti-racist group would be speaking up about this.

:rolleyes:

Oh yes the white paedophiles have moral values they are not racist, they just attack their own, is that it?
How stupid is that? do you hear yourself?

Maybe is to do with the fact that Asian girls, their parents know exactly what they are up to on the internet or wherever they are, they keep an eye on their children did that strike you as a possibility?

Oh really? you don't see them grooming and targeting Asian girls? because they can't find them, as I said they are watched by their parents.

They don't let them out of their sight :)

[adbasque]

That's what we call make an argument our of hot air :rolleyes:

[swethirte]

You have no idea how many people despise Islam and they are doing everything they can to undermine it to tarnish it, to ridicule it, just ask yourself why?


Quite a lot of people despise Nazism and do everything they can to undermine it, tarnish it and ridicule it. Why? Because it's evil.

[adbasque]

Quite a lot of people despise Nazism and do everything they can to undermine it, tarnish it and ridicule it. Why? Because it's evil.

Yes Nazism kills people Islam doesn't :)
I am a Muslim I don't hate people and I don't wish to kill anything or anyone :)
If Islam is evil why am I not evil then?

[swethirte]

Have I missed the point somewhere ..... correct me if I am wrong but aren't there far more White Paedophiles in the UK than Muslim ?? :rolleyes:

Probably because there still more whites in the UK than Muslims. Just about...

[swethirte]

Yes Nazism kills people Islam doesn't :)
I am a Muslim I don't hate people and I don't wish to kill anything or anyone :)
If Islam is evil why am I not evil then?

The Koran preaches violence and death to non-believers.

[adbasque]

Probably because there still more whites in the UK than Muslims. Just about...

This is a very racist slight tiny remark ;)


Just about.

Good luck :)

[adbasque]

The Koran preaches violence and death to non-believers.

Whatever

I take it your religion is the Daughters of Frya, or a sect or whatever, correct?

[swethirte]

This is a very racist slight tiny remark ;)


Just about.

Good luck :)

It wasn't me who equated Muslims with non-whites.

[swethirte]

Whatever

I take it your religion is the Daughters of Frya, or a sect or whatever, correct?

Correct and we don't preach violence in any shape or form.

[adbasque]

Correct and we don't preach violence in any shape or form.
No you only preach sexism :) I know


Probably because there still more whites in the UK than Muslims. Just about...


this was your sentence, with the "Just about" :)

No big deal just a small racist remark it went undetected or did it slip? lol

[swethirte]

No you only preach sexism :) I know



this was your sentence, with the "Just about" :)

No big deal just a small racist remark they went undetected or did it slip? lol

I was responding to someone else who said there were more white paedophiles in the UK than Muslim ones. It was they who therefore equated Muslims with being non-white, not me.

As for preaching sexism, yes we do. Of a pro-female kind.

[adbasque]

I was responding to someone else who said there were more white paedophiles in the UK than Muslim ones. It was they who therefore equated Muslims with being non-white, not me.

As for preaching sexism, yes we do. Of a pro-female kind.

It doesn't matter who you were responding to, it's what you said that I was referring to :)

It was a racist remark, Just about, means, they are taking over our country, it means, there are lot of Asian people here, it means a lot of negative things.

Anyway I am not bothered with it, I just had to point it out.

As for your society I wish you good luck I hope it'll work out for you.

[swethirte]

It doesn't matter who you were responding to, it's what you said that I was referring to :)

It was a racist remark, Just about, means, they are taking over our country, it means, there are lot of Asian people here, it means a lot of negative things.

Anyway I am not bothered with it, I just had to point it out.

As for your society I wish you good luck I hope it'll work out for you.

I think it was pointed out earlier in the thread that Muslims will play the race card whenever it suits them. Just like you're doing now. There is legitimate concern among the general population about the sheer numbers of Muslims in the UK, who have virtually taken over certain cities.

And for the record, I have no problem whatsoever with Sikhs or Hindus, so if you please, you can withdraw the libel that I'm racist. Thanks.

[adbasque]

I think it was pointed out earlier in the thread that Muslims will play the race card whenever it suits them. Just like you're doing now. There is legitimate concern among the general population about the sheer numbers of Muslims in the UK, who have virtually taken over certain cities.

And for the record, I have no problem whatsoever with Sikhs or Hindus, so if you please, you can withdraw the libel that I'm racist. Thanks.

Yes like some people said I am not racist but i don't like blacks :)

you're right you're not racist, because Islam is not a race, it has all origins in it

But what you are is a segregator, descriminator, Why should withdraw anything?

Did I ask you to withdraw the libel you gave all muslims 1.5 billion of them?
Treated them as violent as hateful, I only say what I see.

I can prove it, the way you said it, as if there are too many of them, in this country, the next thing perhaps you will be voting BNP, who knows?

Don't preach what you're not, you preach to be against hatred and violence, but I haven't seen a muslim here attacking anyone, all I can see are Muslims attacked, whether they are guilty or not.
From everywhere, admit you are a segregator and descriminator at least be honest about it. :)

[swethirte]

Yes like some people said I am not racist but i don't like blacks :)

you're right you're not racist, because Islam is not a race, it has all origins in it

But what you are is a segregator, descriminator, Why should withdraw anything?

Did I ask you to withdraw the libel you gave all muslims 1.5 billion of them?
Treated them as violent as hateful, I only say what I see.

I can prove it, the way you said it, as if there are too many of them, in this country, the next thing perhaps you will be voting BNP, who knows?

Don't preach what you're not, you preach to be against hatred and violence, but I haven't seen a muslim here attacking anyone, all I can see are Muslims attacked, whether they are guilty or not.
From everywhere, admit you are a segregator and descriminator at least be honest about it. :)

You know something? I don't care what you think of me. Islam is a doctrine, and as far as I'm concerned it's just about on the same level as Nazism. Go and look it up. Nazism looked after its own people, had social welfare for its own people, and all that. But it also preached violence and hatred against outsiders, and launched wars of conquest. How did the Muslims take over North Africa and the Middle East? At the point of a sword, that's how.

[adbasque]

You know something? I don't care what you think of me. Islam is a doctrine, and as far as I'm concerned it's just about on the same level as Nazism. Go and look it up. Nazism looked after its own people, had social welfare for its own people, and all that. But it also preached violence and hatred against outsiders, and launched wars of conquest. How did the Muslims take over North Africa and the Middle East? At the point of a sword, that's how.

Same here my dear, I am not thinking anything of you, I am merely replying to your comments. :)

Oh yes I see, The only difference that you skipped, Nazis are the supreme race, it's a race thing.

In Islam, you will find every conceivable origin in it, anyone can be a Muslim, in Islam he warns to look after your neighbour no matter who he is, or what he is.

It's not a doctrine, I told you, you don't know what you're talking about, I don't really blame you, honestly I don't blame you, you have been programmed to react the way you are reacting and that's fine.

I know more and more white British, Danish, Germans, Irish, Americans, Canadians, Sweedish people are reverting to Islam, do you think all of these people are stupid? and they like to kill people and spread hatred?

My advice is go and learn more about Islam, then we can talk, it's very difficult to explain things here.

Islam is not a book that I can just give you a resume in one paragrapah or two, I'll be writing until next week.

I am not here to convince anyone, I am here to make people realise what they are becoming, they all claim to be against hatred, but they are the first to jump and spray their hatred, accuse 1.5 billion people of being criminals and being hateful.

No hard feeling :)

[luciferhorus]

The Koran preaches violence and death to non-believers.

On Islam

The point of war is always the peace that follows victory and conquest.

Islam is a militant religion and more than a religion, it is an economic system and a system of government; Mohammad after all was the commander of an army and a political ruler of Medina and Mecca.

I am not a fan of Mohammad, I think he brought some progressive economic reforms to Mecca, eradicating money lending and prostitution, just as Castro did in Cuba, but if the Creator was going to send a 'Last Prophet,' I think that She could have done much better; however just as the Anglo-American state terrorists formed a temporary military alliance with the Muslims when they were fighting the Soviets, I think it important to encourage Islamic militants today in the resistance against the Christian state terrorists, who are entirely genocidal and militant.

There are of course numerous 'peaceful' Muslims who believe in collaborating with the Christian narco-terrorists, however this has nothing to with the militancy of Mohammad and is a very modern phenomenon and reinterpretation of Mohammad's edicts.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_6eonppuEMEo/SDygTp5BUqI/AAAAAAAAAWg/0u0xT4WD0WI/s400/nuclear+jihad.jpg

It is the duty of Muslims to "make war on the unbelievers," not peace; if the billion + Muslims rose in militant resistance against the Christian state terrorists, the kingdom of Capital would fall.

Muslims also believe in a 'Dijjal' which is the Judaic equivalent of the anti-Messiah and their prophecies predict an apocalyptic war against the armies of the Dijjal and the total eradication of the Dijjal's kingdom; the victory of Islam is prophesied, but the only way to fulfill such prophecies would be by nuclear warfare; it is only a matter of time before the Islamic militants invoke such prophecies, and the use of nuclear weapons (such as depleted uranium) in Iraq by the Christian terrorists has given their enemies the moral justification to use such weapons.

There are many activists on the Internet promoting 'peaceful Islam,' and collaboration with the Christian state terrorists and their war, and frankly among them I would be unsurprised if many were just employees of the state terrorists who have armies of bloggers dedicated to propaganda; anyone who is actually familiar with the Koran would understand that it is the textbook of an entirely militant faith.

Lucifer.
Fire, plague and poisoned waters.

http://tuberose.com/Graphics/depleted-uranium.2005.jpeg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3258/3172995702_d7ae6f7af2.jpg

Koran 9:29 Fight those who do not profess the true faith (Islam) till they pay the jiziya (poll tax) with the hand of humility.

Koran 8:12 Remember Thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the believers, I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips of them."

Koran 9:5 "Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful."

Koran 9:73 Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their Home: an evil fate. .

Koran 4:144 Believers, do not choose the unbelievers rather than the faithful as your friends. Would you give Allah a clear proof against yourselves ?

http://snappedshot.com/uploads/dmartyr/londonistan-god-belss-hitler.jpg

Koran 47:4 When you meet the unbelievers in the Jihad strike off their heads and, when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly. Then grant them their freedom or take ransom from them, until War shall lay down her burdens.

Koran 5:33-34 The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet and alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom; Save those who repent before ye overpower them. For know that Allah is Forgiving, merciful.

Koran 5:51 Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends. They are friends with one another. Whoever of you seeks their friendship shall become one of their number. Allah does not guide the wrong-doers.

http://sheikyermami.com/wp-content/uploads/345-muslim-outrage.jpg

Koran 5:57 Believers, do not seek the friendship of the infidels and those who were given the Book before you, who have made your religion a jest and a pastime... Here "those who were given the Book before you" refers to Christians and Jews. Once again Mohammed is warning Muslims of all time never to befriend a Christian or a Jew.


Koran 9:29 Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last day, nor hold the forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and his messenger, nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth from among the People of the Book, until they pay the Jiziyah with willing submission. And feel themselves subdued.


Koran 22:19-22:23 Garments of fire have been prepared for the unbelievers. Scalding water shall be poured upon their heads, melting their skins and that which is in their bellies. They shall be lashed rods of iron. Whenever, in their anguish, they try to escape from Hell, back they shall be dragged, and will be told: 'Taste the torment of the Conflagration!'

http://boortz.com/images/muslim_cartoon_protests.jpg

Koran 18:28-30 For the wrongdoers We have prepared a fire which will encompass them like the walls of a pavilion. When they cry out for help they shall be showered with water as hot as molten brass, which will scald their faces. Evil shall be their drink, dismal their resting-place.

Koran 40:67-40:73 Do you not see how those who dispute the revelation of God turn away from the right path ? Those who have denied the Book and the message We sent through Our apostles shall realize the truth hereafter: when, with chains and shackles round their necks, they shall be dragged through scalding water and then burnt in the fire of Hell.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/index_files/HamasPeople.jpg

Koran 43:74 ..The unbelievers shall endure forever the torment of Hell. The punishment will never be lightened, and they shall be speechless with despair. We do not wrong, themselves.

Koran 55:41-52 ..That is the Hell which the unbelievers deny. They shall wander between fire and water fiercely seething. Which of your Lord's blessing would you deny ?

Koran 76:1-5 For the unbelievers We have prepared chains and fetters and a blazing Fire...

Koran 73:12 We have in store for the unbelievers heavy fetters and a blazing fire, choking food and harrowing torment: on the day when the earth shall quiver with all its mountains, and the mountains crumble into heaps of shifting sand.


http://zombietime.com/gaza_war_protest/IMG_0231.JPG

Qur'an (4:24) - "And all married women (are forbidden unto you) save those (captives) whom your right hands possess."

Qur'an (23:5-6) - "..who abstain from sex, except with those joined to them in the marriage bond, or (the captives) whom their right hands possess..."

Having sex with captive slaves may have OK 1300 years ago, but it is hardly progressive thinking today.

The following is taken from:

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/015-slavery.htm

From the Hadith:



Bukhari (80:753) - "The Prophet said, 'The freed slave belongs to the people who have freed him.'"



Bukhari (52:255) - The slave who accepts Islam and continues serving his Muslim master will receive a double reward in heaven.



Bukhari (41.598) - Slaves are property. They cannot be freed if an owner has outstanding debt, but rather used to pay off the debt.



Bukhari (62:137) - An account of women taken as slaves in battle by Muhammad's men after their husbands and fathers were killed. The woman were raped with Muhammad's approval.



Bukhari (34:432) - Another account of females taken captive and raped with Muhammad's approval. In this case it is evident that the Muslims intend on selling the women after raping them because they are concerned about devaluing their price by impregnating them. Muhammad is asked about coitus interruptus.



Bukhari (47.765) - A woman is rebuked by Muhammad for freeing a slave girl. The prophet tells her that she would have gotten a greater heavenly reward by giving her to a relative (as a slave).



Bukhari (34:351) - Muhammad sells a slave for money. He was thus a slave trader.



Bukhari (72:734) - Some contemporary Muslims in the West, where slavery is believed to be a horrible crime, are reluctant to believe that Muhammad owned slaves. This is just one of many places in the Hadith where a reference is made to a human being owned by Muhammad. In this case, the slave is of African descent.



Muslim 3901 - Muhammad trades away two black slaves for one Muslim slave.



Muslim 4112 - A man freed six slaves on the event of his death, but Muhammad reversed the emancipation and kept four in slavery to himself. He cast lots to determine which two to free.



Bukhari (47:743) - Muhammad's own pulpit - from which he preached Islam - was built with slave labor on his command.



Bukhari (59:637) - "The Prophet sent Ali to Khalid to bring the Khumus (of the booty) and I hated Ali, and Ali had taken a bath (after a sexual act with a slave-girl from the Khumus). I said to Khalid, 'Don't you see this (i.e. Ali)?' When we reached the Prophet I mentioned that to him. He said, 'O Buraida! Do you hate Ali?' I said, 'Yes.' He said, 'Do you hate him, for he deserves more than that from the Khumlus.'" Muhammad approved of his men having sex with slaves, as this episode involving his son-in-law, Ali, clearly proves. This hadith refutes the modern apologists who pretend that slaves were really "wives," since Muhammad had forbidden Ali from marrying another woman as long as Fatima (his favorite daughter) was living.



Abu Dawud (2150) - "The Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) sent a military expedition to Awtas on the occasion of the battle of Hunain. They met their enemy and fought with them. They defeated them and took them captives. Some of the Companions of the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) were reluctant to have intercourse with the female captives in the presence of their husbands who were unbelievers. So Allah, the Exalted, sent down the Qur’anic verse: (Qur'an 4:24) 'And all married women (are forbidden) unto you save those (captives) whom your right hands possess.'" This is the background for verse 4:24 of the Qur'an. Not only does Allah grant permission for women to be captured and raped, but allows it to even be done in front of their husbands.



Ibn Ishaq (734) - A slave girl is given a "violent beating" by Ali in the presence of Muhammad, who does nothing about it.

[nirvana]

Oh yes the white paedophiles have moral values they are not racist, they just attack their own, is that it?
How stupid is that? do you hear yourself?

Maybe is to do with the fact that Asian girls, their parents know exactly what they are up to on the internet or wherever they are, they keep an eye on their children did that strike you as a possibility?

Oh really? you don't see them grooming and targeting Asian girls? because they can't find them, as I said they are watched by their parents.

They don't let them out of their sight :)

From people like you im starting to believe there is a war in this country by islam .
The reason they dont groom young asian girls is because the white community they live in would speak out.

[nayan]

Being nice to people is a good thing, nobody will dispute that, regardless what the other person is like, so long as there is a mutual respect :)

You should say, I believe all of these beliefs are false, you can't prove either way.
So don't be so certain those beliefs are false, you see what I mean?

Unless you have evidence of them not being real or false, you can't be affirmative.

:)

I see what you mean, but do you believe that all non-muslims go to hell?

[raven200]

Amused at how in every forum there are a small few who target Islam as a militant religion.

Currently more people have been killed in the name of christianity then in the name of Islam.

Bushes war on Iraq was a crusade, as he put it himself. The wars carried out by his regime has spilled far more blood then probably has ever been in the history of mankind.

Yes there are idiots sitting in the faith of Islam who are hypocrits. But don't deny the faith itself of it's truth when you have not understood it's deepest teachings.

and trust me my friend they are not violent.

Islam is a religion of science and truth and not barbaric. I will shed more light on this further, I have just joined the forum.

:) and I'm enjoying this place immensily, full of people with open minds. Well majority so far. :cool:

[swethirte]

Amused at how in every forum there are a small few who target Islam as a militant religion.

Currently more people have been killed in the name of christianity then in the name of Islam.

Bushes war on Iraq was a crusade, as he put it himself. The wars carried out by his regime has spilled far more blood then probably has ever been in the history of mankind.

Yes there are idiots sitting in the faith of Islam who are hypocrits. But don't deny the faith itself of it's truth when you have not understood it's deepest teachings.

and trust me my friend they are not violent.

Islam is a religion of science and truth and not barbaric. I will shed more light on this further, I have just joined the forum.

:) and I'm enjoying this place immensily, full of people with open minds. Well majority so far. :cool:

Trust me, "my friend", you are mistaken. Not all religions are the same, and some preach violence and hatred.

[raven200]

Trust me, "my friend", you are mistaken. Not all religions are the same, and some preach violence and hatred.

:) I agree not all faiths are the same, but you might not be aware of is that Judaism, christanity and Islam all have the same background. That background is Abraham.

Christians are in fact Jewish as Jesus was Jewish and he never really started a new religion but came to correct the teachings of the true judaism. Though instead some of his so called followers started there own cult and built in new stuff and made a whole new religion called christianity.

Anyway this stuff goes way way deep, I don't think we wanna dig so hard. Basically I've always had an open mind and always will, and I ask people, nice people like yourself to do the same and not shoot blindly in the dark at faiths and religions.

And before you say that I just did that myself by saying what I did about christianity, well I hav'nt as I have studied it and it's history.

Also if you have any detailed questions about why you think Islam is violent please ask. I'll try and answer :)

[father ted]

I had heard said that Mohammed was a pedophile because according to the Koran he had some young wives, around age seven or something like that, not sure if it's in there or of it actually describes him having sex with them (doubt it) - but my point is, some Muslims maybe, see this as some sort of justification... like in countries like Saudi Arabia... hate to think of these things but you know.

I'll have to do some research on this:o

[swethirte]

:) I agree not all faiths are the same, but you might not be aware of is that Judaism, christanity and Islam all have the same background. That background is Abraham.

Christians are in fact Jewish as Jesus was Jewish and he never really started a new religion but came to correct the teachings of the true judaism. Though instead some of his so called followers started there own cult and built in new stuff and made a whole new religion called christianity.

Anyway this stuff goes way way deep, I don't think we wanna dig so hard. Basically I've always had an open mind and always will, and I ask people, nice people like yourself to do the same and not shoot blindly in the dark at faiths and religions.

And before you say that I just did that myself by saying what I did about christianity, well I hav'nt as I have studied it and it's history.

Also if you have any detailed questions about why you think Islam is violent please ask. I'll try and answer :)

Yes, I'm fully aware that Judiaism, Christianity and Islam are Abrahamic religions, thank you. And I'm no apologist for any of them, since the path I follow comes from a different source entirely. But out of those three I know which one I wouldn't choose, if I had to.

[swethirte]

I had heard said that Mohammed was a pedophile because according to the Koran he had some young wives, around age seven or something like that, not sure if it's in there or of it actually describes him having sex with them (doubt it) - but my point is, some Muslims maybe, see this as some sort of justification... like in countries like Saudi Arabia... hate to think of these things but you know.

I'll have to do some research on this:o

It's not only true (and he had sex with her when she was 9, by the way), but merely the tip of the iceberg. Muhammad was a sexual predator of the worst sort. See here http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/025-Muhammads-sex-life.htm

[raven200]

I had heard said that Mohammed was a pedophile because according to the Koran he had some young wives, around age seven or something like that, not sure if it's in there or of it actually describes him having sex with them (doubt it) - but my point is, some Muslims maybe, see this as some sort of justification... like in countries like Saudi Arabia... hate to think of these things but you know.

I'll have to do some research on this:o


Read Pages 12 and 13 of the link!!

http://www.alislam.org/holyprophet/...et_muhammad.pdf

It talks of the married life of the Holy prophet!!

He actually married Hazrat Aisha when she was 9 but took her as a wife when she was 12.

Now Many girls mature at this age in terms of mental maturity in comparison to boys!!

Now he married her becuase her parents wished for him to do so!!
It was not something he wanted, but because the father of the girl was a very faithfull and loyal companion of the prophet, he agreed to his wishes!!

This was not a marriage of Lust of anysort, but of showing appreciation of the devotion of his companion, that he was honoured by having his daughter being given the status of being married to A VERY LOVED PROPHET OF GOD!!

Who lived his whole life according to as God wished him to do so!!

[father ted]

It's not only true (and he had sex with her when she was 9, by the way), but merely the tip of the iceberg. Muhammad was a sexual predator of the worst sort. See here http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/025-Muhammads-sex-life.htm

Than that would explain how some of his followers could justify that sort of thing imo.

[swethirte]

Read Pages 12 and 13 of the link!!

http://www.alislam.org/holyprophet/...et_muhammad.pdf

It talks of the married life of the Holy prophet!!

He actually married Hazrat Aisha when she was 9 but took her as a wife when she was 12.

Now Many girls mature at this age in terms of mental maturity in comparison to boys!!

Now he married her becuase her parents wished for him to do so!!
It was not something he wanted, but because the father of the girl was a very faithfull and loyal companion of the prophet, he agreed to his wishes!!

This was not a marriage of Lust of anysort, but of showing appreciation of the devotion of his companion, that he was honoured by having his daughter being given the status of being married to A VERY LOVED PROPHET OF GOD!!

Who lived his whole life according to as God wished him to do so!!

So are you advocating having sex with girls aged 12? I believe most of those who were victims of the recent Muslim paedophile rings were older than that, so to them it wasn't paedophilia at all.

[swethirte]

Than that would explain how some of his followers could justify that sort of thing imo.

Which is precisely why it's so insidious.

[raven200]

So are you advocating having sex with girls aged 12? I believe most of those who were victims of the recent Muslim paedophile rings were older than that, so to them it wasn't paedophilia at all.

I said no such thing, or advocated it, also nowhere did I say he slept with her. I was talking of marriage. He had no children with Aisha, which means most probably he did no such thing.

But she was his wife till he passed away, and I have not time travelled like apparently you have and seen everything. So I don't know about after she came of age, which I am not and did never say is 12. I said mental maturity ok, so don't try and play the accusation game.

[alzee]

So are you advocating having sex with girls aged 12? I believe most of those who were victims of the recent Muslim paedophile rings were older than that, so to them it wasn't paedophilia at all.

I think you'll find that you were being corrected about Mohammed hacing sex with a 9 year old girl. You were wrong, again. I'm pretty sure that's at least the second time in this thread that that points been corrected.

[raven200]

It's quite strange to see that someone like swethirte who does'nt wish to follow any faith, so vigourously hates one without even knowing anything about its essence or basics.

People who don't have a faith often think they are the most open minded, but in fact it most often turns out that they are the most closed minded of all.

There opinion is the only one and the correct one! Why so? :confused:

[swethirte]

I think you'll find that you were being corrected about Mohammed hacing sex with a 9 year old girl. You were wrong, again. I'm pretty sure that's at least the second time in this thread that that points been corrected.

I wasn't wrong, and I don't believe these blatant attempts to whitewash him http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha#Marriage_to_Muhammad

[swethirte]

It's quite strange to see that someone like swethirte who does'nt wish to follow any faith, so vigourously hates one without even knowing anything about its essence or basics.

People who don't have a faith often think they are the most open minded, but in fact it most often turns out that they are the most closed minded of all.

There opinion is the only one and the correct one! Why so? :confused:

Eh? What are you talking about? I do follow a faith, it's linked below.

[alzee]

It's quite strange to see that someone like swethirte who does'nt wish to follow any faith, so vigourously hates one without even knowing anything about its essence or basics.

People who don't have a faith often think they are the most open minded, but in fact it most often turns out that they are the most closed minded of all.

There opinion is the only one and the correct one! Why so? :confused:

She does actually follow a 'faith' (if you can call it that) - hers requires her to do 1200 squats per day and disallows men from joining.

I can see people lining up to join that one :rolleyes:

[raven200]

I wasn't wrong, and I don't believe these blatant attempts to whitewash him http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha#Marriage_to_Muhammad

Whoever reads your link is going to know straight away that the stuff written there is by "American historian Denise Spellberg states " as it states itself. And we all know what americans think about Islam.

Thing about Wiki is that anyone can load any rubbish as information, so I don't think you can go by what is writtin in wiki as word of god.

Man get a grip, wake up. I think thats what this whole forums about, wake up don't sleep. Your sleeping swethirte common wake up, it's ok your just having a bad dream. ;)

[raven200]

She does actually follow a 'faith' (if you can call it that) - hers requires her to do 1200 squats per day and disallows men from joining.

I can see people lining up to join that one :rolleyes:

Lol, hey I wanna do some squats. common swethirte can me and alzee squat with yaa ;)

I can even do lunges.

hahahaaha

[swethirte]

Lol, hey I wanna do some squats. common swethirte can me and alzee squat with yaa ;)

I can even do lunges.

hahahaaha

Those who are losing the argument generally resort to ridicule.

[raven200]

Sorry I apologies if I've hurt your feelings, but I have answered your link from wiki on page eleven.

WIKI don't mean a thing, it's not a realisitic source. Full of misinformation in the link you provided anyway.

:cool:

Aaaaaargh aaaaaaargh...... aaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhh..... oooooooooh

hey these squats arn't easy. :p take a chill pill.

[nirvana]

Whoever reads your link is going to know straight away that the stuff written there is by "American historian Denise Spellberg states " as it states itself. And we all know what americans think about Islam.

Thing about Wiki is that anyone can load any rubbish as information, so I don't think you can go by what is writtin in wiki as word of god.

Man get a grip, wake up. I think thats what this whole forums about, wake up don't sleep. Your sleeping swethirte common wake up, it's ok your just having a bad dream. ;)




Yes wake up and turn a blind eye to the muslim paedaphile ring.Sorry I men asian men that go to mosque.
Wake up and speak out if nyone tries to expose it:rolleyes:

[raven200]

Yes wake up and turn a blind eye to the muslim paedaphile ring.Sorry I men asian men that go to mosque.
Wake up and speak out if nyone tries to expose it:rolleyes:

Racist, All I gotta say to you.

There are nasty people in all cultures and societies, why you saying asian.

Do you have an agenda about race and color? You only show your true self!!!

[adbasque]

I see what you mean, but do you believe that all non-muslims go to hell?

Listen, hell and heaven is not for me to decide, I am not even sure for myself where I am going, this is between the person and his maker.

I worry more where I am going, it's god that decides who goes where :)

[adbasque]

From people like you im starting to believe there is a war in this country by islam .
.

It's not from people like me, you believed it before you started this thread ;)

The reason they dont groom young asian girls is because the white community they live in would speak out

I was born here and grew up here so please spare me this will you.
I don't mind debating but I can hardly handle loads of Bull
Thank you

[raven200]

Ive had my first warning for this thread. I maybe banned soon:rolleyes:

Well if you keep playing the race game then you should be. Wake up my friend, look into the white light and tell me what you seeeeeee......

Common mate whats the point of thinking all asians or muslims are bad. Where all humans, we have differing ideologies, even people of the same religion don't agree with one another.

So no need to categories all. :o

[nessa felagund]

It's such a shame that we allow subjects such as religion to keep us divided and arguing with one another. :(

[swethirte]

Sorry I apologies if I've hurt your feelings, but I have answered your link from wiki on page eleven.

WIKI don't mean a thing, it's not a realisitic source. Full of misinformation in the link you provided anyway.

:cool:

Aaaaaargh aaaaaaargh...... aaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhh..... oooooooooh

hey these squats arn't easy. :p take a chill pill.

Did you check out all the citations from the Wikipedia article?

[raven200]

It's such a shame that we allow subjects such as religion to keep us divided and arguing with one another. :(

Absolutely agree, if we were all mature and clever we would discuss with rationale and try and understand each others view point.

Religion only becomes evil when man becomes evil. Our mind and thoughts portray only what we want to see, so it's easy to leave the goodness and take all the bad.

I think times will change, but we all need to wake up. I say this is a great slogan...

Wake up!!! :)

[nirvana]

Racist, All I gotta say to you.

There are nasty people in all cultures and societies, why you saying asian.

Do you have an agenda about race and color? You only show your true self!!!

Yes I have a agenda to speak up against the muslim paedaphile ring. Ive been on alot of forums talking about this and muslims generally allways defend these disgusting perferts in their communities.

[alzee]

Yes I have a agenda to speak up against the muslim paedaphile ring. Ive been on alot of forums talking about this and muslims generally allways defend these disgusting perferts in their communities.

link?

[raven200]

Did you check out all the citations from the Wikipedia article?

Yup the citations are from incorrect hadith, theres a lot of them about, to see which one is right and which wrong you see if it contradicts the quran.

Yup all the ones cited are wrong.

Created to justify the evils of radical muslims.

[swethirte]

Yup the citations are from incorrect hadith, theres a lot of them about, to see which one is right and which wrong you see if it contradicts the quran.

Yup all the ones cited are wrong.

Created to justify the evils of radical muslims.

Ah well that's ok then. Still, I'd rather believe the word of an independent academic than a Muslim apologist any day.

[adbasque]

Yes wake up and turn a blind eye to the muslim paedaphile ring.Sorry I men asian men that go to mosque.
Wake up and speak out if nyone tries to expose it:rolleyes:

If anyone is turning a blind eye is you, Denise Spellberg give me a break :D what a joke, she is nothing but a propagandist paid by the illuminati to do just that.

Keep reading her lies you're on the right path, I am sure you are enjoying it, I suspect that's the kind of things you want to read and spread.

Anything to slander undermine and attack Islam and Muslim, except you did it in a way, to pass for a simple concerned citizen about little children who are being abused.

I did not hear you saying similar things about any other paedophiles, it's been on our TV screens for years, mostly white men, but that wasn't a big deal.

They were just some sick individuals, but if an Asian does it, and we have not yet had any evidence, not one shred of it, you're in a hurry to tarnish the entire Muslim world with it.

Let me tell you what they do to some paedophiles when they are caught, they cut their sex and put it in their mouth.

Let's say it's true some Asian from Muslim background have done this, right?
If it's a gang of 27 or more people, how do you know they are not afraid for their lives if they speak out, as I said this assuming there is ohhh a muslim ring of paedophiles.

What the other 1.5 billion Muslims world wide have to do with it?

Next time please find something substantial to slander and spill your personal hatred.

[raven200]

If anyone is turning a blind eye is you, Denise Spellberg give me a break :D what a joke, she is nothing but a propagandist paid by the illuminati to do just that.

Keep reading her lies you're on the right path, I am sure you are enjoying it, I suspect that's the kind of things you want to read and spread.

Anything to slander undermine and attack Islam and Muslim, except you did it in a way, to pass for a simple concerned citizen about little children who are being abused.

I did not hear you saying similar things about any other paedophiles, it's been on our TV screens for years, mostly white men, but that wasn't a big deal.

They were just some sick individuals, but if an Asian does it, and we have not yet had any evidence, not one shred of it, you're in a hurry to tarnish the entire Muslim world with it.

Let me tell you what they do to some paedophiles when they are caught, they cut their sex and put it in their mouth.

Let's say it's true some Asian from Muslim background have done this, right?
If it's a gang of 27 or more people, how do you know they are not afraid for their lives if they speak out, as I said this assuming there is ohhh a muslim ring of paedophiles.

What the other 1.5 billion Muslims world wide have to do with it?

Next time please find something substantial to slander and spill your personal hatred.


Here Here... Jolly good answer. :o

[adbasque]

Absolutely agree, if we were all mature and clever we would discuss with rationale and try and understand each others view point.

Religion only becomes evil when man becomes evil. Our mind and thoughts portray only what we want to see, so it's easy to leave the goodness and take all the bad.

I think times will change, but we all need to wake up. I say this is a great slogan...

Wake up!!! :)

No the truth is, some people know the only way to divide is to get some idiots to attack some other's faith and religion and the other part will defend their religion or faith, and the division is set.

[nirvana]

A while back I done a few threads exposing the bnp. I now do a thread exposing Islam and Im called a racist.

We are all supposed to be one but deep down when ever you mention these paedaphile rings in Keighley you are accused of playing the race card.

Every time ann cryer etc tried to expose this ring or talk about it in the mainstream paper the muslims and their representatives would come out in droves.

I know there are plenty of white paedaphiles in the uk but the difference here its a group of muslims targetting very young white girls.

If I get banned for this thread i dont care .

[nirvana]

No the truth is, some people know the only way to divide is to get some idiots to attack some other's faith and religion and the other part will defend their religion or faith, and the division is set.


Well maybe the muslims in keighley should of not of allowed their community to defend this paedaphile ring:rolleyes:


If the shoe was on the other foot the muslim community would be out in force without the fear of being accused of being racist.

[raven200]

A while back I done a few threads exposing the bnp. I now do a thread exposing Islam and Im called a racist.

We are all supposed to be one but deep down when ever you mention these paedaphile rings in Keighley you are accused of playing the race card.

Every time ann cryer etc tried to expose this ring or talk about it in the mainstream paper the muslims and their representatives would come out in droves.

I know there are plenty of white paedaphiles in the uk but the difference here its a group of muslims targetting very young white girls.

If I get banned for this thread i dont care .


You probably did the thread, to make it look that your not a rascist.

But you could't keep it hidden, it came out becuase thats who you want to be. ???

Why do you hate? Have you studied Islam in detail?

Please answer following questions?

What are the five pillers of Islam?

Name the khalifs after the prophet?

What is zakat?

What does the word Islam mean?

[nirvana]

You probably did the thread, to make it look that your not a rascist.

But you could't keep it hidden, it came out becuase thats who you want to be. ???

Why do you hate? Have you studied Islam in detail?

Please answer following questions?

What are the five pillers of Islam?

Name the khalifs after the prophet?

What is zakat?

What does the word Islam mean?


Im not a racist im just very very anti Islam . Since I started talking to muslims:rolleyes:
Befor I started talking to muslims I was very open minded but now know they are the enemy within.

[raven200]

Im not a racist im just very very anti Islam . Since I started talking to muslims:rolleyes:
Befor I started talking to muslims I was very open minded but now know they are the enemy within.

The enemy is within you... No one else is your enemy. You keep thinking the way you do you will not only think negatively of others, but the negativity will eventually devour you until your nothing but hate.

You did'nt answer any of my questions. Thats because you know nothing about Islam. :(

[raven200]

If you have not already seen it, then watch the movie..

American History X.

Opens ones eyes to how impressions can be misleading. Nothing about Islam so you ave nothing to worry about.

[nirvana]

The enemy is within you... No one else is your enemy. You keep thinking the way you do you will not only think negatively of others, but the negativity will eventually devour you until your nothing but hate.

You did'nt answer any of my questions. Thats because you know nothing about Islam. :(

I know if you make cartoons about the muslim figure head mohammed you can get hundreds of thousands of peaceful muslims on the streets calling for the death of the artist:rolleyes:

If you write a book like the satanic verses alot of the peace loving muslims will petrol bomb shops:rolleyes:

Its funny for such a peaceful religeon people can be killed in riots over cartoons

[alzee]

Yes I have a agenda to speak up against the muslim paedaphile ring. Ive been on alot of forums talking about this and muslims generally allways defend these disgusting perferts in their communities.

link?

Im not a racist im just very very anti Islam . Since I started talking to muslims:rolleyes:
Befor I started talking to muslims I was very open minded but now know they are the enemy within.

Still waiting for the link to these forum conversations...

[picha]

Islam is very divided between extreamist and the moderates. Having been on many anti-war marches and demo's ,why do so many moderate muslims keep their mouths shut when they see extreamists tarnishing their religeon?

Also why was their only a handful of muslims that spoke out against the muslim paedaphile gangs in Keighley?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttz8-ucWhYc&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Flancaster%2Dbnp%2Dfreespeech%2Eb logspot%2Ecom%2F&feature=player_embedded


What would happen if we had a majority muslim cabinet

Please dont call me a racist Ive exposed the bnp enough times.

Exposing the muslim paedaphile gangs.Its strange that they dont mention who this paedaphile ring is.

For those that find this thread offensive GOOD.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bradford/7374398.stm

We have the right to expose all religeons and political parties

I think you may understand a bit better the reason why muslims are the way they are is because in Islam, mohammed is the example that they are all supposed to live up to. Find out about the kind of a guy he was (from islamic sources) then youll realise why they tend to resort to violence more readily than other religions do.

[adbasque]

Yes, I'm fully aware that Judiaism, Christianity and Islam are Abrahamic religions, thank you. And I'm no apologist for any of them, since the path I follow comes from a different source entirely. But out of those three I know which one I wouldn't choose, if I had to.

Yes your path, very innocent, 100% sexist, to hell men, women only, oh yes a very loving sect.

:) give me a break will you, I don't need to discuss with you any further I know exactly what you are

You are a pure hateful person, remember "Just about"? that says it all of a person like you.

The truth is, you're trying to find excuses to justify your hatred, nothing more and nothing less.

You don't fool me, I can between the lines and I can certainly read what people are up to.

[adbasque]

I know if you make cartoons about the muslim figure head mohammed you can get hundreds of thousands of peaceful muslims on the streets calling for the death of the artist:rolleyes:

If you write a book like the satanic verses alot of the peace loving muslims will petrol bomb shops:rolleyes:

Its funny for such a peaceful religeon people can be killed in riots over cartoons

the peaceful you want is to walk all over them, spit at them, do whatever you want to them, and they simply put their heads down and obey you as their master, that's what you call peace

The truth is you were never open minded, you came here started this thread you knew exactly what you were going to get, you knew people's reaction, you are distracting the forum from the real enemy.

You are the enemy, you have been paid to divert people from other threads that are discussing how to bring your true masters down.

That is what you really are and you are nothing but a liar and a hypocrite.

Happy now I am giving you a good reason to even despise Muslims, go on carry on with your hatred, but one thing I must remind you, you will not win.

Islam is and always be, because him up there is looking after it, you can't step and walk all over his sacred words.

You want more reasons to hate ?
I can give you plenty, you are a segregator, a divider, a hateful individual, you got what you want now?
I hope you're satisfied :)

You don't mind people getting killed in riots about football?
You don't mind people killed in riots about your corrupt government
You are a hypocrite liar

[nirvana]

Still waiting for the link to these forum conversations...


Why should i give you a link?

They are the same as the muslims on here .Any mention of the muslim paedaphile rings and its racist.

I shouldnt really call it a muslim paedaphile ring because its a couple of communities in the north of the uk. That happen to be muslim.

So yes I apolagise I mean keighley muslim paedaphile ring. Many muslims proboly never heard of keighley.

So I apolagise for linking all muslims together .

[swethirte]

Yes your path, very innocent, 100% sexist, to hell men, women only, oh yes a very loving sect.

:) give me a break will you, I don't need to discuss with you any further I know exactly what you are

You are a pure hateful person, remember "Just about"? that says it all of a person like you.

The truth is, you're trying to find excuses to justify your hatred, nothing more and nothing less.

You don't fool me, I can between the lines and I can certainly read what people are up to.

We do what we do, and we don't try and impose our religion on others. And we certainly don't kill unbelievers.

[alzee]

Why should i give you a link?

They are the same as the muslims on here .Any mention of the muslim paedaphile rings and its racist.

I shouldnt really call it a muslim paedaphile ring because its a couple of communities in the north of the uk. That happen to be muslim.

So yes I apolagise I mean keighley muslim paedaphile ring. Many muslims proboly never heard of keighley.

So I apolagise for linking all muslims together .

Yes I have a agenda to speak up against the muslim paedaphile ring. Ive been on alot of forums talking about this and muslims generally allways defend these disgusting perferts in their communities.

lol, you should give me a link to back up what you claim.. otherwise you're full of shit, pal.

[nirvana]

the peaceful you want is to walk all over them, spit at them, do whatever you want to them, and they simply put their heads down and obey you as their master, that's what you call peace

The truth is you were never open minded, you came here started this thread you knew exactly what you were going to get, you knew people's reaction, you are distracting the forum from the real enemy.

You are the enemy, you have been paid to divert people from other threads that are discussing how to bring your true masters down.

That is what you really are and you are nothing but a liar and a hypocrite.

Happy now I am giving you a good reason to even despise Muslims, go on carry on with your hatred, but one thing I must remind you, you will not win.

Islam is and always be, because him up there is looking after it, you can't step and walk all over his sacred words.

You want more reasons to hate ?
I can give you plenty, you are a segregator, a divider, a hateful individual, you got what you want now?
I hope you're satisfied :)

You don't mind people getting killed in riots about football?
You don't mind people killed in riots about your corrupt government
You are a hypocrite liar


So I will not win is that because Islam will rise up in the UK and take control?

Theres a difference protesting about the G8 and protesting and calling for the death of an artist due to some cartoons :D.

You couldnt make it up what sane person goes out onto the streets with hatred and anger because of a cartoon drawing:D

Salmon rushdie still lives in fear because he wrote a book called satanic verses. Many peace loving muslims petrol bombed shops etc.

Does this not sound alittle bit mentally unbalanced:rolleyes:


So Ive been paid to start this thread who by the illuminate?:confused:

[picha]

So I will not win is that because Islam will rise up in the UK and take control?

Theres a difference protesting about the G8 and protesting and calling for the death of an artist due to some cartoons :D.

You couldnt make it up what sane person goes out onto the streets with hatred and anger because of a cartoon drawing:D

Salmon rushdie still lives in fear because he wrote a book called satanic verses. Many peace loving muslims petrol bombed shops etc.

Does this not sound alittle bit mentally unbalanced:rolleyes:


So Ive been paid to start this thread who by the illuminate?:confused:


The reason they go nuts over books and cartoons is because they are following the example of their beloved prophet mohammed.

[nirvana]

Imagine if there was a programme called the life of mohammed done by the monty python team:D

This would lead to ww3.

If muslims want to integrate they need to get rid of that dangerous socialpathic mind set. And realise cartoons shouldnt give you the excuse to kill and maim :rolleyes:

[eternal_spirit]

I'm sorry to have to inform you that you are incorrect http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha#Marriage_to_Muhammad and please check out the citations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adbasque http://www.davidicke.com/forum/images/buttons_green/viewpost.gif (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1022722#post1022722)
She was not 6,

get your facts right, get real facts and she wasn't 9 either

I've caught him and other fanatical Muslim's on here out on this before
and he's still being dishonest. He denied genital mutilation (circumcision was part of a religious ritual of Islam too)

I provided links with quotes from Islamic laws, scholars, Imam's etc, to prove I was telling the truth.

Questions Related to Marriage

The Appropriate Age for Marriage
Question: What is the appropriate age for men and women to marry? Some of the young ladies of today do not accept to be married to men older than them and also some of the men do not get married from anyone older than them either. We hope for a response, may Allah reward you.

Response: I advise the young ladies not to refuse a man because of his older age. Even if he be ten, twenty or thirty years older, this is not a valid excuse. The Prophet (peace be upon him) married Aisha when he was fifty-three years old and she was nine years old. Older age is not harmful. There is no problem if the woman is older than the man and there is no problem if the man is older than the woman. The Prophet (peace be upon him) married Khadijah when she was forty years old and he was twenty-five years old, before he received his first revelation. That is, she was fifteen years older than him (may Allah be pleased with her). And Aisha was married when she was a young lady of six or seven years and the Prophet (peace be upon him) consummated the marriage when she was nine years old and he was fifty-three years old.

http://web.archive.org/web/200502051...riage.html#age (http://web.archive.org/web/20050205151045/www.uh.edu/campus/msa/articles/fatawawom/marriage.html#age)

[swethirte]

I've caught him and other fanatical Muslim's on here out on this before
and he's still being dishonest. He denied genital mutilation (circumcision was part of a religious ritual of Islam too)

I provided links with quotes from Islamic laws, scholars, Imam's etc, to prove I was telling the truth.

Questions Related to Marriage

The Appropriate Age for Marriage
Question: What is the appropriate age for men and women to marry? Some of the young ladies of today do not accept to be married to men older than them and also some of the men do not get married from anyone older than them either. We hope for a response, may Allah reward you.

Response: I advise the young ladies not to refuse a man because of his older age. Even if he be ten, twenty or thirty years older, this is not a valid excuse. The Prophet (peace be upon him) married Aisha when he was fifty-three years old and she was nine years old. Older age is not harmful. There is no problem if the woman is older than the man and there is no problem if the man is older than the woman. The Prophet (peace be upon him) married Khadijah when she was forty years old and he was twenty-five years old, before he received his first revelation. That is, she was fifteen years older than him (may Allah be pleased with her). And Aisha was married when she was a young lady of six or seven years and the Prophet (peace be upon him) consummated the marriage when she was nine years old and he was fifty-three years old.

http://web.archive.org/web/200502051...riage.html#age (http://web.archive.org/web/20050205151045/www.uh.edu/campus/msa/articles/fatawawom/marriage.html#age)

I think that counts as a smoking gun.

[adbasque]

It's not only true (and he had sex with her when she was 9, by the way), but merely the tip of the iceberg. Muhammad was a sexual predator of the worst sort. See here http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/025-Muhammads-sex-life.htm

We can see what you people are trying to do, basically you're trying to push and push with your attacks, and insults, until someone loses his temper and start swearing back at you than you have something to talk about.

As if to prove that Muslims are violent



I wasn't born yesterday I dealt with your kind for many years, I know you before you open your mouth (type)

[swethirte]

We can see what you people are trying to do, basically you're trying to push and push with your attacks, and insults, until someone loses his temper and start swearing back at you than you have something to talk about.

As if to prove that Muslims are violent



I wasn't born yesterday I dealt with your kind for many years, I know you before you open your mouth (type)

You have long ago started swearing and hurling personal insults. That shows how flimsy and disingenuous your argument really is.

[adbasque]

I think that counts as a smoking gun.

It doesn't count as a smoking gun, only in your head.

when a woman reaches puberty she is ready to marry if she wants, to
We are talking 1400 years ago, that's a 1000 and 400 years ago.

People back then were very different than people of today, show me one Muslim today who married a woman under 13?
Even 13 is pushing it, so what are you talking about, Mohamed saws was not a sex predator as you described him and if you had a little bit of respect for others you wouldn't be saying this, but because you don't know the meaning of respect, keep ranting, keep spilling your poison and venom all over.

You're crazed with hatred and despise, simple because people are different than you.

Like you sick sect, of sexist, that says a lot about people like you

[adbasque]

You have long ago started swearing and hurling personal insults. That shows how flimsy and disingenuous your argument really is.

Show me the swearing

you started your insults right from your first post here and on the other thread

So don't even go there, I was very polite which is in my nature I don't swear at people unless they are dumb and disrespectful as you are.

Got it? ;) don't even try to stigmatise me or to label me with something that you are, we can go back and read your posts and mine and you'll see who's been insulting the other :)

[nayan]

Listen, hell and heaven is not for me to decide, I am not even sure for myself where I am going, this is between the person and his maker.

I worry more where I am going, it's god that decides who goes where :)

Obviously it's not for you to decide, so you believe it's between the person and his maker, you never answered my question, do you beleive that all non-muslims go to hell? Yes or no?

And how do you know god decides who goes where?

[adbasque]

The enemy is within you... No one else is your enemy. You keep thinking the way you do you will not only think negatively of others, but the negativity will eventually devour you until your nothing but hate.

You did'nt answer any of my questions. Thats because you know nothing about Islam. :(


Originally Posted by nirvana View Post
Im not a racist im just very very anti Islam . Since I started talking to muslims
Befor I started talking to muslims I was very open minded but now know they are the enemy within.

That is exactly the case, and not just him, but most of them, haven't got a clue what Islam is all about, not a clue!

But that's beside the point, what I am pointing out is the amount of hate that's coming out of this forum.

And what I have noticed in the recent weeks and months, they make all sorts of threads to divert the rest away from the real problem, the main issues, such as the bankers that are ripping us all of, the NWO that is taking place, the eugnics and their sick programmes.

Oh maybe they think once the eugenics start they'll only take care of the MUSLIMS Arabs, people with dark colour that is :)

Well I have news for you, it will be decided by the DNA and if your DNA doesn't match the supreme race you are as good as a rooster with a socks on.

[swethirte]

It doesn't count as a smoking gun, only in your head.

when a woman reaches puberty she is ready to marry if she wants, to
We are talking 1400 years ago, that's a 1000 and 400 years ago.

People back then were very different than people of today, show me one Muslim today who married a woman under 13?
Even 13 is pushing it, so what are you talking about, Mohamed saws was not a sex predator as you described him and if you had a little bit of respect for others you wouldn't be saying this, but because you don't know the meaning of respect, keep ranting, keep spilling your poison and venom all over.

You're crazed with hatred and despise, simple because people are different than you.

Like you sick sect, of sexist, that says a lot about people like you


1400 is 1000 and 400? Gee thanks. I didn't know that. But being female and therefore virtually subhuman how could I possibly know complicated sums like this?

And with regard to respect, it has to be earned, by the way.

[nirvana]

That is exactly the case, and not just him, but most of them, haven't got a clue what Islam is all about, not a clue!

But that's beside the point, what I am pointing out is the amount of hate that's coming out of this forum.

And what I have noticed in the recent weeks and months, they make all sorts of threads to divert the rest away from the real problem, the main issues, such as the bankers that are ripping us all of, the NWO that is taking place, the eugnics and their sick programmes.

Oh maybe they think once the eugenics start they'll only take care of the MUSLIMS Arabs, people with dark colour that is :)

Well I have news for you, it will be decided by the DNA and if your DNA doesn't match the supreme race you are as good as a rooster with a socks on.


You really do speak shit dont you. If you live in keighley the biggest one of the biggest probems is the muslim paedaphile gangs. Not the nwo.
Muslims now use the nwo to side step the issue in their communities :rolleyes:

[flickflack]

You are the enemy, you have been paid to divert people from other threads that are discussing how to bring your true masters down.




You said earlier in the thread that you weren't evil, and that is probably true... But you can sure be rude sometimes.

And as I have said earlier, London has been called Londonistan because of radical Islamic hatred to the Western world. Londonistan is not at all a positive name.

[adbasque]

Obviously it's not for you to decide, so you believe it's between the person and his maker, you never answered my question, do you beleive that all non-muslims go to hell? Yes or no?

And how do you know god decides who goes where?

Why is it important to you what I believe?, This is personal, I told you what I believe, I believe what I just said.

If anyone has to go to hell it's for GOD to decide not me not anybody, On the judgement day Allah (god) the first thing he'll do is to check people's hearts.

then he'll decide who goes where, Why do you want to know my own personal belief?

I didn't ask you what you believe did I?
There are several things a person shouldn't do, and what difference would it make to know my personal belief, if I give an answer you won't accept it because you don't believe in GOD as far as I am aware.

[adbasque]

You said earlier in the thread that you weren't evil, and that is probably true... But you can sure be rude sometimes.

And as I have said earlier, London has been called Londonistan because of radical Islamic hatred to the Western world. Londonistan is not at all a positive name.

Listen I am the first to expose those people, do you have any idea who's behind it?
I get bored explaining the bleeding obvious, if a person like you, who is on DI forum and you still don't get it, what chance have I got to explain to you what you're looking at is not the reality, they are made up, why because they have beards?

When are you people going to finally learn that there are some people out there, their job, day and night is to frame Islam and Muslims, they infiltrate mosques and so on and create radicalism all of that in pretending of being Muslims themselves.

Or are some Muslims not allowed to be brainwashed by instigators of radicalism?

I witnessed back in the 80s in Algeria an Imam who was a Jew and he foold a whole community for 23 years, he nearly radicalised the whole community, in remote place in Algeria, until he was found out and sent to Europe and then Israel, he was a Zionist.

If you want believe everything you watch on TV go right ahead, and now I am very bored with expaining the bleeding obvious.

Where is the rudeness, can you show it to me please?

[adbasque]

You really do speak shit dont you. If you live in keighley the biggest one of the biggest probems is the muslim paedaphile gangs. Not the nwo.
Muslims now use the nwo to side step the issue in their communities :rolleyes:

Yes, have fun then hunt the Muslims

[adbasque]

But being female and therefore virtually subhuman how could I possibly know complicated sums like this?

And with regard to respect, it has to be earned, by the way.

It has nothing to do with being female, I am talking to you as a person, I don't care if you're female, man or transexual, don't try this on me ;)

It won't stick, speaking of respect? LOL you talk about respect, you need first to find out the true meaning of it.

Listen I don't think I have anything further to discuss with you, carry on with your quest, keep hating and you're good at it, you don't even have to make an effort it comes naturally ;)

Enjoy yourself I have more important things to discuss than wasting my time with an endemic ignorance.

[adbasque]

You probably did the thread, to make it look that your not a rascist.

But you could't keep it hidden, it came out becuase thats who you want to be. ???

Why do you hate? Have you studied Islam in detail?

Please answer following questions?

What are the five pillers of Islam?

Name the khalifs after the prophet?

What is zakat?

What does the word Islam mean?

He is not racist, just hates Muslims, and Islam, which makes him a segregator, divider of the community.

And don't hold your breath about him answering any questions, because he hasn't a got a clue or perhaps, he can copy paste something from Wikipedia like some people :D

Come on mate don't waste your time honest, I am not answering them, they can bloody well think what they want, they are not here to seek the truth, they are to distort it and divert us all from the truth and the real danger that their masters are cooking for us

[flickflack]

Listen I am the first to expose those people, do you have any idea who's behind it?
I get bored explaining the bleeding obvious, if a person like you, who is on DI forum and you still don't get it, what chance have I got to explain to you what you're looking at is not the reality, they are made up, why because they have beards?

When are you people going to finally learn that there are some people out there, their job, day and night is to frame Islam and Muslims, they infiltrate mosques and so on and create radicalism all of that in pretending of being Muslims themselves.

Or are some Muslims not allowed to be brainwashed by instigators of radicalism?

I witnessed back in the 80s in Algeria an Imam who was a Jew and he foold a whole community for 23 years, he nearly radicalised the whole community, in remote place in Algeria, until he was found out and sent to Europe and then Israel, he was a Zionist.

If you want believe everything you watch on TV go right ahead, and now I am very bored with expaining the bleeding obvious.

Where is the rudeness, can you show it to me please?

You said to the other poster that he was the enemy.

I could easily see that someone could infiltrate Islam btw, but I don't understand why they would try to make them more radical? If they try to defeat Islam, they would not try to aggravate its extremities, but make it go away.

PS: I responded to this post mainly because you asked where the rudeness was and I answered you, but I could not resist commenting on that infiltrating stuff. Interesting theory.

[nirvana]

Yes, have fun then hunt the Muslims


No theres a paedaphile muslim gang and no it is not funny. Stop playing the victim card.
If you want to blame anyone for this anger blame your paedaphile religeous brothers.

[nirvana]

1400 is 1000 and 400? Gee thanks. I didn't know that. But being female and therefore virtually subhuman how could I possibly know complicated sums like this?

And with regard to respect, it has to be earned, by the way.


You've got to realise muslims are allways right:rolleyes:

[adbasque]

Yes wake up and turn a blind eye to the muslim paedaphile ring.Sorry I men asian men that go to mosque.
Wake up and speak out if nyone tries to expose it:rolleyes:

We are still waiting for your exposure, all you did is repeat the same things again and again and again and again, why? be cau se you don't have anything to back it with it.

No further discussion is required with you or people like you

Keep hunting, feed your own hatred

[nirvana]

This was wrote by an enlightened indian guy who makes alot of sense


We are at the same juncture as we were 3 months ago. Channel 4 wants to broadcast its provocative documentary ‘Edge of the City’ about life in Bradford, and once again activists and organisations are up in arms. This time however we can’t make the same mistake we did last time by reacting without thinking. Channel 4 should go ahead and show it.

Edge of the City is controversial for one simple reason - part of it is about Muslim guys in Bradford grooming young white girls for drugs and sex.

The local elections were the main reason why it was first pulled at the last minute in May. It was thought the BNP would use content from the film to incite racial tension in Bradford and win more votes in the coming local elections. With the elections now passed the police chiefs are no longer opposing it.

The main objections against showing it seem to be; (a) it will incite racial tension in a region racked with problems; (b) these things no longer take place so there’s no need to talk about them, and; (c) it will portray Asians negatively. On inspection, none of these arguments are that strong – let me explain why.


Same mistake again
The argument about inciting racial tension rests on the assumption that not many people know about the issue. In fact press coverage of the documentary has already made this concern useless.

The first time protests against Edge of the City started, they made the broadsheets. When it was pulled at the last minute, every national newspaper the next day was talking about censorship of the ‘Asian paedophile’ documentary.

The BNP still used it as much as they could in party propaganda and for their political broadcasts. On top of that they could spin the film’s content to their own advantage because no one had seen it.

So whereas before maybe a million or so people would have watched it, now every single person in the UK reading the papers, or had friends who did, knew about it. To add insult to injury the BNP’s friends in the right-wing tabloids kept screaming “excessive political correctness”.

Are people really under the impression that these headlines, which will undoubtedly be repeated, will have no impression on the vast majority of the population? They will quite rightly wonder why the Asian community is so unwilling admit problems within its own community.

We can’t repeat such a stupid mistake. The smell of conspiracy would be even stronger and calls of excessive censorship would be even louder.


Does it still happen?
The phenomenon of young white girls being groomed by Asian gangs in Keighley first came to the spotlight in a Channel 4 news investigation last year in August. There have been suggestions that the whole issue was resolved over two years ago, but there seems to be no substantial evidence to support this.

Why are we afraid to air our dirty laundry? I have argued before that this is an issue more about segregation, poverty and drugs than race. Paedophilia is not just an Asian issue. That however doesn’t make this any more right. There have been other documentaries on paedophilia, one specifically focused on the Catholic Church, so we can’t complain of being unfairly picked on.

Could it be, leaving political correctness aside, that some Muslim leaders don’t want to give a negative impression of what many of their own youth are doing in Bradford? That these young girls are picked on because of their race and the perception that they are ‘easy’? That racism exists even in crime?

I don’t need to keep flashing my liberal and non-communal credentials around to raise these uncomfortable questions.

Racism is rife even in a multi-cultural city like London. Are we to believe that in a segregated and deprived area like Bradford, things are hunky-dory? Last week’s Asian Voice newspaper points out the harassment of Hindus by Muslim youths, during religious celebrations in Bradford, has gone unreported and unresolved.

If no one raises these questions it is likely that problems will get brushed under the carpet, as all religious leaders are adept at doing.


Portrayal and bad impressions
To generalise and say all Muslim youth in Bradford are like this would be highly naïve of me and I don’t make that claim. To that extent even the documentary reflects this – showing how Omar (pictured) the social worker has helped Matthew the young offender (pictured) go on the straight and narrow.

Unfortunately many asking for Edge of the City to be axed have overlooked that it also shows Asians trying to make things better, and this is the point – we need to accept the good with the bad. The Asian community is not full of angels and sometimes TV documentaries will need to reflect that.

The Catholic Church for example would have never taken such urgent steps to combat paedophilia within its own ranks unless the press reported it.

Frankly we should care less about providing bigots with ammunition and more with openly bringing out uncomfortable issues and resolving them. The documentary is unlikely to tell the residents of Bradford anything new since the press has already done this.

Axing the documentary will only increase resentment amongst well meaning white people who will rightly complain of our own double standards.

For the very reason that The Secret Policeman and The Secret Agent are applauded and should be encouraged, we should not be afraid of Edge of the City and in fact embrace it. To resolve issues of segregation and racial violence we need to work with our fellow English citizens, not retreat back into racially segregated shells.

[adbasque]

No theres a paedaphile muslim gang and no it is not funny. Stop playing the victim card.
If you want to blame anyone for this anger blame your paedaphile religeous brothers.

A Paedophile is NO brother of mine I don't care who he is, If I catch a paedophile I'll do something about it, and I will
Not like you, we are still waiting for your evidence

I am not a victim don't flatter yourself, I am simply bored with debates like these, all you've been doing is rant, you haven't presented a grain of evidence

Because your goal is not to do with paedophilia or criminals, is to do with ANY Muslim.

the day you're more honest and less hypocrite we can talk openly with your evidence on the table until then I have better and more urgent things to do, and if this forum carries on like this, I don't think I'll stay here either.

My only presence here was to fight a real true enemy of ours, but all I found is the same sheeple that is out there, with some exceptions of course, there are genuine and good people, but this forum has been invavded by trolls, they bring in anything to distort and divert the users awayyyyy from the real issues.

[nirvana]

A Paedophile is NO brother of mine I don't care who he is, If I catch a paedophile I'll do something about it, and I will
Not like you, we are still waiting for your evidence

I am not a victim don't flatter yourself, I am simply bored with debates like these, all you've been doing is rant, you haven't presented a grain of evidence

Because your goal is not to do with paedophilia or criminals, is to do with ANY Muslim.

the day you're more honest and less hypocrite we can talk openly with your evidence on the table until then I have better and more urgent things to do, and if this forum carries on like this, I don't think I'll stay here either.

My only presence here was to fight a real true enemy of ours, but all I found is the same sheeple that is out there, with some exceptions of course, there are genuine and good people, but this forum has been invavded by trolls, they bring in anything to distort and divert the users awayyyyy from the real issues.


Well if the paedaphiles are not your brothers stop defending them :rolleyes:

Fight the real enemy you mean play the victim card.

You dont have to stay everyones got free will.:)

[eternal_spirit]

Originally Posted by adbasque http://www.davidicke.com/forum/images/buttons_green/viewpost.gif (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1025197#post1025197)
but this forum has been invavded by trolls, Yes Islamic ones!!! Who always start with the name calling and abuse.

[adbasque]

You said to the other poster that he was the enemy.

I could easily see that someone could infiltrate Islam btw, but I don't understand why they would try to make them more radical? If they try to defeat Islam, they would not try to aggravate its extremities, but make it go away.

PS: I responded to this post mainly because you asked where the rudeness was and I answered you, but I could not resist commenting on that infiltrating stuff. Interesting theory.

But why did you just copy that line, why not the rest and did you read his previous posts and comments on both threads?

It was clear right from the begining, yes that is what he is, it's nothing to do with rudeness, it's ok for him to be rude to the entire Muslim community accusing them with everything he could get his hands on?? that's ok is it?

Since he started his thread, we asked him to provide any evidence, he still hasn't he kept ignoring the questions, from myself and many others here

Oh of course you saw my rudeness, not his and the others, or are you blind to their rudeness?:rolleyes:

See what I mean by a lot of double standard when Islam is concerned?



You are the enemy, you have been paid to divert people from other threads












the peaceful you want is to walk all over them, spit at them, do whatever you want to them, and they simply put their heads down and obey you as their master, that's what you call peace

The truth is you were never open minded, you came here started this thread you knew exactly what you were going to get, you knew people's reaction, you are distracting the forum from the real enemy.

You are the enemy, you have been paid to divert people from other threads that are discussing how to bring your true masters down.

Ok I am done with this nonsense

[eternal_spirit]

A Muslim group that wants to open a giant £100 million mosque in London has set its sights on “winning the whole of Britain to Islam”.
Tablighi Jamaat aims to build an Islamic complex near to the site of the 2012 Olympic stadium, with a mosque for 12,000 people, by far the largest religious building in Britain.
The organisation, which has millions of followers worldwide, insists that it is a peaceful, apolitical revivalist movement that promotes Islamic consciousness among individual Muslims. However, intelligence agencies have cautioned that the group’s ability to fire young men with a zeal for Islam acts as a staging post, for some, along a path that leads to jihadist terrorism.
Kafeel Ahmed, the Indian doctor who died from burns last month after trying to set off a car bomb at Glasgow Airport, is the latest in a line of terrorists for whose initial radicalisation Tablighi Jamaat has been blamed. The group (literally, the preaching party) belongs to the ultra-conservative Deobandi school of thought within Sunni Islam, whose adherents run more than 600 of Britain’s 1,350 mosques.



In recent days The Times has exposed the virulently anti-Western creed of some British Deobandis who preach that non-Muslims are an evil and corrupting influence. Their defensive, isolationist approach to life in Britain is shared by many British supporters of Tablighi Jamaat.
One leading advocate, Ebrahim Rangooni, has said that the movement seeks to “rescue the ummah [the global Muslim community] from the culture and civilisation of the Jews, the Christians and [other] enemies of Islam”. Its aim, he wrote, is to “create such hatred for their ways as human beings have for urine and excreta”.
Mr Rangooni has also given warning to parents that non-Muslim schools “turn humans into animals” and that sending a Muslim child to a British college “is as dangerous as throwing them into hell with your own hands”.
Representatives of Tablighi Jamaat refused to attend a public meeting on Friday to discuss plans for the “mega mosque” in West Ham, even though the debate was organised by a Muslim group.
Tablighi Jamaat was founded in 1926, in India, by a Deobandi scholar, Muhammad Ilyas, who wanted to raise Islamic awareness among rural Muslims in south Asia. He promised them that by obeying Islamic laws and following the example of the Prophet Muhammad in their personal lives they would one day “dominate over non-believers” and become “masters of everything on this earth”.
Ishaq Patel, Tablighi Jamaat’s first amir (leader) in Britain, is said to have been on pilgrimage in Mecca when Ilyas’s successor gave him a long-term mission to win “the whole of Britain to Islam”.
Yoginder Sikand, a Muslim expert on the movement, says that its ethos of “social and cultural separatism and insularity” seeks “to minimise contacts with people of other faiths”.
The self-segregation that this encourages is evident in Dewsbury, West Yorkshire, where the group has its European headquarters. The Tablighi Jamaat complex – housing its large Markazi mosque and a Deobandi seminary called the Islamic Institute of Education - is based in the Savile Town area, which has an 88 per cent Asian population. The overwhelming majority of its 5,000 residents are Muslims from Pakistan or the Gujarat region of India and some, at home and at work, have little contact with nonMuslims.
It was on the advice of a Tablighi Jamaat scholar that Aishah Azmi, a Dewsbury teaching assistant, refused to remove her full-face veil in the class-room while helping young children who were learning to speak English.
Mr Sikand says: “There is little doubt that the sense of cultural separatism and heightened [Islamic] identity consciousness fostered by Tablighi Jamaat can be taken advantage of by more assertive Islamist groups that have a more explicit political agenda.”
One of the suicide bombers who attacked London in July 2005, Shehzad Tanweer, studied at the Deobandi seminary in Dewsbury and Mohammad Sidique Khan, the leader of the 7/7 terror plot, was a regular worshipper at the adjoining mosque. Richard Reid, the shoe bomber, was said to have been influenced by Tablighi Jamaat, several of whose adherents were also among those arrested last year over an alleged plot to blow up transatlantic airliners.
Shabbir Daji, a trustee and secretary of the Tablighi Jamaat mosque in Dewsbury, told The Times that the movement’s aim was “unity among all humanity”. He said that it had no hidden agenda. “We never come out on demonstrations against the Government,” he said. “Our aim is to make each and everyone . . . a better Muslim.”
More than 250,000 people have signed a Downing Street petition against the London mosque. Local opposition is being led by Alan Craig, a Christian Peoples Alliance member of Newham council. He accuses Tablight Jamaat of being “a separatist sect that preaches a them-and-us approach to relations with the nonMuslim community” and encourages the creation of “Islamic enclaves” in Britain.
“There are many moderate Muslims who object to the teachings of Tablighi Jamaat. They know that it preaches hostility to non-Muslims. Some have friends and family members who have been radicalised by this movement.”
Irfan al Alawi, international director of the Centre for Islamic Pluralism, says the missionary work of Tablighi Jamaat acts as “a recruitment agency for jihad” in Afghanistan, the occupied territories and Iraq. “They go around deprived areas of British towns and cities, knocking on doors and urging young Muslims to come to their gatherings,” he said.
“The mega-mosque complex would become a flagship for Tablighi Jamaat’s mission to indoctrinate Muslims with a hatred of the West and the kuffar [non-Mulims].”
Tabligh Jamaat is expected to submit a formal planning application for the West Ham mosque before the end of the year.



http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article2419524.ece

[adbasque]

Well if the paedaphiles are not your brothers stop defending them :rolleyes:

Fight the real enemy you mean play the victim card.

You dont have to stay everyones got free will.:)

I haven't defended anyone, I asked you for evidence to support your claims, which you failed to provide on numerous occasions, and when a person does that, it means one thing

He is a liar
He is spreading vile lies
He is a hypocrite
Then I stop talking or having any conversation with them, now if it gives you pleasure which I am sure it does, carry on with your insults and unfounded allegations and lies.

I fight the real enemy, you should know who he is :rolleyes:
I don't play I grew up years ago, I am not here to play and when I play I choose whom I play with

I am certainly not a victim, and a troll like you and your friends here.

You're doing a good job, keep dividing people, that was your order and task anyway, they must pay you a lot of money for it.

And from now on you are ignored by me,

I decided to stay and ignore you.
I am not leaving the forum because of you or people like you.
:rolleyes:
Ciao

[raven200]

One thing is very clear in tis thread and that is that there is a group of people out there who want to hurt others not only mentally and if given the opportunity most probably physically as well.

Islam is just an excuse the real problem is the colour. I have seen many coloured people attacked without question and called things like Paki. Even though they maybe Indian or Bangladshi. There religion may be hinduism or budhhism. It does not make any difference the people in here who are making Islam an excuse are actually out here only for white supremecy.

There world consists of hatred because they have nothing better to do. Need an excuse to make trouble and targeting someone or a group is the best entertainment they get. All I have seen here is a muslim guy defending his faith whilst the others like vultures attack his faith. Not all but a lot in this thread.

These are the people that are a danger to society. Nobdy is or will be defending a ring of peopdophiles, if people do such a thing they should and will get there punishment. But using it as an excuse to target all of the same religion or colour now that is disgraceful.

There is a good reason why Islam is the largest religion in the world, it offers the poor love and a strong will power to believe that they are always under the shade of God whatever there situation and also if they strive and struggle in this life they will surely be rewarded in the next.

Hate and War and all this other nonsense is not a part of this faith.

You get extremeist christians like the BNP and the IRA. you get extremist Jews, Hindu's etc. This does not mean that everyone of that faith is evil.

Stop targeting a religion but rather work with each other to improve society. The more you attack the worse you make society. Let the evil miniority be punished by the law and work with majority to create an understanding. :)

[alzee]

I haven't defended anyone, I asked you for evidence to support your claims, which you failed to provide on numerous occasions, and when a person does that, it means one thing

He is a liar
He is spreading vile lies
He is a hypocrite
Then I stop talking or having any conversation with them, now if it gives you pleasure which I am sure it does, carry on with your insults and unfounded allegations and lies.

I fight the real enemy, you should know who he is :rolleyes:
I don't play I grew up years ago, I am not here to play and when I play I choose whom I play with

I am certainly not a victim, and a troll like you and your friends here.

You're doing a good job, keep dividing people, that was your order and task anyway, they must pay you a lot of money for it.

And from now on you are ignored by me,

I decided to stay and ignore you.
I am not leaving the forum because of you or people like you.
:rolleyes:
Ciao

I asked him, again, in PM to provide evidence... his response was to call me a dickhead and to go join my pedo brothers, lol.

This forum seems to be inundated with wankers lately.

[nayan]

Why is it important to you what I believe?, This is personal, I told you what I believe, I believe what I just said.

If anyone has to go to hell it's for GOD to decide not me not anybody, On the judgement day Allah (god) the first thing he'll do is to check people's hearts.

then he'll decide who goes where, Why do you want to know my own personal belief?

I didn't ask you what you believe did I?
There are several things a person shouldn't do, and what difference would it make to know my personal belief, if I give an answer you won't accept it because you don't believe in GOD as far as I am aware.

You believe what you just said, but you didn't answer my question. It is important to me what you believe because you've been defending yourself quite a bit in other posts, so I want to see your point for this one, why can't you answer the question?

How do you know he'll check people's hearts? How do you know that he'll decide who goes where?

What difference would it make? it would make a major difference because it shows me who you truly are. Either believing all non-muslims go to hell or not go to heaven, yes or no?

[flickflack]

But why did you just copy that line, why not the rest and did you read his previous posts and comments on both threads?






I often just quote a line or two if I'm going to comment that and not the whole text.

The reason I mentioned your rudeness was that you said that you was a Muslim and said there was nothing bad with you (if I where to read between the lines, as you said it).

And I'm sorry, but I would have to agree that the UK is turning in to a Londonistan and a new Muslim state (within the state, as the UK is not Muslim.) Unfortunately, I have had no positive response when I have posted links to 60 Minutes to some on this forum, so I'm not bothered to dig it up on CBS' website.
And I must say that I have never liked a state within the state. Just to give an example of what I mean is that if it's war, a private capitalistic corporation do the fighting that should be left out to the militarily. And I did not by this claim that Islam was a militant culture. It was just an example of what I mean by a state within the state.

[eternal_spirit]

The Scotsman (http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=4497150)

Tuesday, May 3, 2005
Muslim Accused of Assaulting Son Through Circumcision

By James Tapsfield, PA
A Muslim “assaulted” his five-year-old son by having him circumcised against his mother’s wishes, a court heard today.
The father is alleged to have secretly taken the boy to a doctor in north London for the procedure.
Lewes Crown Court heard he then told the mother – an English Christian – what had happened and said: “There is nothing you can do.”
The 27-year-old man – who lives in Crawley, West Sussex, but cannot be named for legal reasons – denies committing an assault occasioning actual bodily harm in August 2003.
Irena Ray-Crosby, prosecuting, told the court today that the parents had been involved in a three-month relationship and the mother realised she was pregnant after they broke up.
Once the defendant, who is of Moroccan origin, realised the child was his he began raising the issue of circumcision in line with his religious beliefs.
“He told (the mother) he wanted to have the boy circumcised and she said she would agree with that only for medical reasons and never for religious ones.”
The court heard that in August 2003 – shortly after the boy’s fifth birthday – he went to stay with his father.
The defendant telephoned the mother and asked her to come out of her house to talk to him, at which point he told her about the circumcision.
According to Ms Ray-Crosby, the mother accused him of assaulting their son, and the defendant responded: “There’s nothing you can do. I’ve looked into it and it’s perfectly legal.”
He later sent her a text message saying she should give the boy salty baths in order to help him heal.
The court heard that the father had been “under pressure” from fellow Muslims to get his son circumcised, and paid £100 in cash for the procedure to be carried out.
Ms Ray-Crosby said the defendant had admitted when arrested and interviewed by police that he had not told the mother in advance of his plans. She added that there had been no medical reason why the boy needed to be circumcised.
“This is not a case that is anti-Islam or anti-any other faith. It’s simply about a boy who was circumcised without his mother’s consent.”
Ms Ray-Crosby said the father had never applied for legal parental responsibility, and therefore could not have provided proper consent for the operation to take place.

A British court has ruled that consent of both parents is required for circumcision.

http://www.circumstitions.com/News17.html

This raises the question: If medically unnecessary surgical interventions are inherently human rights abuses when performed on children with "abnormal" genitals, what makes circumcision of a "normal" child acceptable? ]

[adbasque]

You believe what you just said, but you didn't answer my question. It is important to me what you believe because you've been defending yourself quite a bit in other posts, so I want to see your point for this one, why can't you answer the question?

How do you know he'll check people's hearts? How do you know that he'll decide who goes where?

What difference would it make? it would make a major difference because it shows me who you truly are. Either believing all non-muslims go to hell or not go to heaven, yes or no?

OK for the last time I am going to explain what I believe, as far as hell or heaven are concerned, nobody knows who goes where, do you understand what I mean? If you're asking what my religion says

It says, you will only enter heaven by the grace of god, which means he'll decide, why? because he is god, he has the authority he has the power, and he knows who's done what.

Does that answer your question now?
I hope it does :)

[eternal_spirit]

Genital mutilation as religious ritual/initiation should be enough to make any sane/sentient/caring person realise Islam is sick and no one should ever convert to Islam.

[raven200]

Genital mutilation as religious ritual/initiation should be enough to make any sane/sentient/caring person realise Islam is sick and no one should ever convert to Islam.

Ask any doctor it's good for you. I had a friend at school, christian lad who got extremely ill and it was because he got an infection on the inside of the extra skin on his knob, so he had to get circumstised.

The skin holds in dirt and bacteria and speak to a Dr. and he or she will tell you circumsision would do you good rather then bad.

Jews do it as well.

[flickflack]

Ask any doctor it's good for you. I had a friend at school, christian lad who got extremely ill and it was because he got an infection on the inside of the extra skin on his knob, so he had to get circumstised.

The skin holds in dirt and bacteria and speak to a Dr. and he or she will tell you circumsision would do you good rather then bad.

Jews do it as well.

Jews only circumcize males. And usually on their 8th day as a baby, not as a young boy. I would not think anything other than that the act of circumcision is very painful.

[eternal_spirit]

Ask any doctor it's good for you. I had a friend at school, christian lad who got extremely ill and it was because he got an infection on the inside of the extra skin on his knob, so he had to get circumstised.

The skin holds in dirt and bacteria and speak to a Dr. and he or she will tell you circumsision would do you good rather then bad.

Jews do it as well.

Sorry but you are seriously wrong and misinformed (I may dedicate a whole thread to the topic to put the myths you're pushing to bed for good, you can join in, but I'll produce all the evidence that proves mutilation as a religious practice is very wrong and sick) I've been through it so many times before (with pro mutilation advocates)

I know about Jews (they are the closest of all religions to Islam)
and many are the same races.

God gave man a forsekin for reasons.

There are very rare medical conditions that sometimes (not always) require circumcision, and a small incision not the full cut usually cures.

[nayan]

OK for the last time I am going to explain what I believe, as far as hell or heaven are concerned, nobody knows who goes where, do you understand what I mean? If you're asking what my religion says

It says, you will only enter heaven by the grace of god, which means he'll decide, why? because he is god, he has the authority he has the power, and he knows who's done what.

Does that answer your question now?
I hope it does :)

Yes, nobody knows who goes where or if hell and heaven exists.

So you mean the grace of god, I don't believe in religion, does that mean i'm going to hell? (Yes, question answered:), so you do believe it then, because it says in your religion)

And how do you know he has the authority and power?

[adbasque]

Yes, nobody knows who goes where or if hell and heaven exists.

So you mean the grace of god, I don't believe in religion, does that mean i'm going to hell? (Yes, question answered:), so you do believe it then, because it says in your religion)

And how do you know he has the authority and power?

Why would you go to hell?
You don't believe in god, what different does it make to you? :)

I did not say you're going to hell or heaven, it is very arrogant of me to even imply such a thing, Only God knows who goes where and why.

How do I know he has the authority and power?

That's a second question lol

He has the authority because that's what I believe, otherwise I wouldn't be a believer.
How do I know he has the authority, this question can't be answered with one simple answer, one or two words.

It took me years to get to this conclusion, If you want to find out how, I suggest you do a reasearch the information is out there my Dear:)

It is simply impossible to just answer it with few words, however just look around you, the whole existence, the way the universe is synchronised to the tiniest atomic detail even beyond what a human eye or any modern instruments can see or detect.

Just look around you and don't skip anything, everything that exist has a meaning in this life.

this question requires a vast debate with days and days of questions and answers.

There you go

[adbasque]

Ask any doctor it's good for you. I had a friend at school, christian lad who got extremely ill and it was because he got an infection on the inside of the extra skin on his knob, so he had to get circumstised.

The skin holds in dirt and bacteria and speak to a Dr. and he or she will tell you circumsision would do you good rather then bad.

Jews do it as well.

Raven200

Not only the Jews and Muslims that circumcise, the only difference some Christians decided to drop it, there are still Christians who still circumcise their children.

And in Islam it is recommended to circumcise the baby in the first 6 months of his life.

[nayan]

Why would you go to hell?
You don't believe in god, what different does it make to you? :)

I did not say you're going to hell or heaven, it is very arrogant of me to even imply such a thing, Only God knows who goes where and why.

How do I know he has the authority and power?

That's a second question lol

He has the authority because that's what I believe, otherwise I wouldn't be a believer.
How do I know he has the authority, this question can't be answered with one simple answer, one or two words.

It took me years to get to this conclusion, If you want to find out how, I suggest you do a reasearch the information is out there my Dear:)

It is simply impossible to just answer it with few words, however just look around you, the whole existence, the way the universe is synchronised to the tiniest atomic detail even beyond what a human eye or any modern instruments can see or detect.

Just look around you and don't skip anything, everything that exist has a meaning in this life.

this question requires a vast debate with days and days of questions and answers.

There you go

Yes, but what you would believe is that I would go to hell, because I don't follow the grace of God.

You can believe he has authority, but you can't answer the answer how? I'm asking you because you believe he does have authority. Yes, everything that exists has a meaning, where does that meaning come from?

[eternal_spirit]

Raven200

Not only the Jews and Muslims that circumcise, the only difference some Christians decided to drop it, there are still Christians who still circumcise their children.

And in Islam it is recommended to circumcise the baby in the first 6 months of his life.
Difference is that it is a religious mandatory instruction of Islam and Judaism. It is not in Christianity. Christians who circumcise do so because it dates back to cultural traditions of older religions such as Africa and the people are following such traditions, nothing to do whatsoever with Christianity (Egypt is probably the oldest known source of the ritual)

Initiation rituals of Christianity is not mutilation but a splash of water on the babys head.

[adbasque]

Yes, but what you would believe is that I would go to hell, because I don't follow the grace of God

No, this is not what I said, please do me a favour don't put words in my mouth
I said a person will enter heaven with the grace of god, it means with his mercy, as for because you follow or not, you believe or not, I am in no position to answer this, I am not GOD, I don't decide for him.


You can believe he has authority, but you can't answer the answer how? I'm asking you because you believe he does have authority.
I did not say I can't answer, I said it cannot be answered in one sentence or paragraph, there are a lot of things to be looked at.

Let me ask you a question, what is your purpose on this earth as a human being?
Why do you think you're here?


Yes, everything that exists has a meaning, where does that meaning come from?

Good question :) for you to find the answer, why are we here, why do we live such a short life, if this life has a bigger meaning, why do we come here, live a short while and then we die?

[nayan]

No, this is not what I said, please do me a favour don't put words in my mouth
I said a person will enter heaven with the grace of god, it means with his mercy, as for because you follow or not, you believe or not, I am in no position to answer this, I am not GOD, I don't decide for him.


I did not say I can't answer, I said it cannot be answered in one sentence or paragraph, there are a lot of things to be looked at.

Let me ask you a question, what is your purpose on this earth as a human being?
Why do you think you're here?



Good question :) for you to find the answer, why are we here, why do we live such a short life, if this life has a bigger meaning, why do we come here, live a short while and then we die?

We are here to live and die, simple, because that's what I see. Why do i think i'm here? I don't think i'm here, I AM here. I'm asking you because you believe in it.

You never said it, but it shows the meaning. 'A person will enter heaven with the grace of god' and that's what you believe, so i'm asking you, what happends to a person who doesn't have the 'grace of god'?

[adbasque]

Read Pages 12 and 13 of the link!!

http://www.alislam.org/holyprophet/...et_muhammad.pdf

It talks of the married life of the Holy prophet!!

He actually married Hazrat Aisha when she was 9 but took her as a wife when she was 12.

Now Many girls mature at this age in terms of mental maturity in comparison to boys!!

Now he married her becuase her parents wished for him to do so!!
It was not something he wanted, but because the father of the girl was a very faithfull and loyal companion of the prophet, he agreed to his wishes!!

This was not a marriage of Lust of anysort, but of showing appreciation of the devotion of his companion, that he was honoured by having his daughter being given the status of being married to A VERY LOVED PROPHET OF GOD!!

Who lived his whole life according to as God wished him to do so!!

Not only that, she agreed, she wanted him and she never changed her mind she loved and he loved her more than anything.

At that time, it was a normal age to marry as soon as a woman reaches her puberty, not even that time, few years back in this century a women had children at age 15, I have a friend of mine who is one child of 12 and his mother had his sister at age 15 and that was back in 1961 and they are not Muslims :)

But don't bother explaining they know the truth, their goal is not the truth, their aim is to undermine Islam, Mohamed, Muslims, GOD and so on.

[eternal_spirit]

Questions Related to Marriage

The Appropriate Age for Marriage
Question: What is the appropriate age for men and women to marry? Some of the young ladies of today do not accept to be married to men older than them and also some of the men do not get married from anyone older than them either. We hope for a response, may Allah reward you.

Response: I advise the young ladies not to refuse a man because of his older age. Even if he be ten, twenty or thirty years older, this is not a valid excuse. The Prophet (peace be upon him) married Aisha when he was fifty-three years old and she was nine years old. Older age is not harmful. There is no problem if the woman is older than the man and there is no problem if the man is older than the woman. The Prophet (peace be upon him) married Khadijah when she was forty years old and he was twenty-five years old, before he received his first revelation. That is, she was fifteen years older than him (may Allah be pleased with her). And Aisha was married when she was a young lady of six or seven years and the Prophet (peace be upon him) consummated the marriage when she was nine years old and he was fifty-three years old.

http://web.archive.org/web/200502051...riage.html#age (http://web.archive.org/web/20050205151045/www.uh.edu/campus/msa/articles/fatawawom/marriage.html#age)

BTW consumated for those who don't know means to have sex.
There's obviously differing opinions about Aisha's age.

[alzee]

Ask any doctor it's good for you. I had a friend at school, christian lad who got extremely ill and it was because he got an infection on the inside of the extra skin on his knob, so he had to get circumstised.

The skin holds in dirt and bacteria and speak to a Dr. and he or she will tell you circumsision would do you good rather then bad.

Jews do it as well.

I've got to disagree with you there fella. There is no medical reason for the vast majority of people to be circumcised. Proper cleaning does away with any potential problem in most folks.

Circumcision is, imo, barbaric and unneccesary for both males and females.

[adbasque]

But don't bother explaining they know the truth, their goal is not the truth, their aim is to undermine Islam, Mohamed, Muslims, GOD and so on.

Age of consent was lowered to 16 for paedophiles in the government, nobody objected to it.

So those big fat ugly smelly bastards in power can have orgies with kids at age 16.

But 1400 years ago, a man married a woman and consumated her at age 12, it was the normal age in those days, some got married even younger.

NOT in the Muslim world, they got married younger elsewhere.
in Habasha (Ethiopia) which was Christian at the time :) just in case

That's the hypocrisy and double standard to tarnish Islam :) well what the heck

And before Mohamed saws was born they used to burry their own daughters alive, because, in those days it was embarassing to have just girls.

When Mohamed saws, arrived he changed the whole culture of the pagans, they tried to assassinate him on numerous occasions, but they couldn't why? humm

He didn't have an army at that time it was right at the begining, so who protected him?
he only had two friends and one frail uncle on his side the rest wanted him dead.

[eternal_spirit]

In London, Sheikh Omar Bakri openly declared his intention to transform the West into Dar Al-Islam and to establish Sharia on British soil. "I want to see the black flag of Islam flying over Downing Street," he has said. In fact, his al-Muhajiroun group is dedicated to this goal. Likewise, Abu Hamza, widely quoted as saying there’s nothing wrong with Osama bin Laden or his beliefs, headed up a similar organization called Supporters of Sharia, dedicated to the Islamicization of Britain.


Dutch politician Pim Fortuyn asked exactly that question just before he was assassinated last year on the eve of Holland’s national elections.
Fortuyn, however, was able to vocalize what his Dutch brethren are unwilling to accept, that most Muslims commonly believe that the only legitimate basis for a society—and that would apply to Dutch society as well as anywhere—is the Sharia, the Islamic law that the Taliban was so strictly enforcing.

Spencer quotes an imam in Holland: "The Sharia does not have to adopt to the modern world because these are divine laws. People have to bend to the Sharia." Defense of the Sharia includes, among other things, the defense of stoning—not only for the sins of Sodom, but also for adultery, a staple of modern Dutch life. Moreover, Muslim cultural features such as arranged marriages, revenge killings, and female circumcision (including sewing up the woman’s vagina from top to bottom) are diametrically opposed to Western values. Fortuyn’s fatal mistake was to warn Holland against the Trojan horse of intolerance it is inviting into its society in the name of tolerance and multiculturalism.

Ayaan Hirsi Ali, elected to the Dutch parliament in January, has criticized Islam precisely on this point. Hirsi Ali, a young Somali immigrant who considers herself an "ex-Muslim," charges that it is Islam at its core (not simply so-called "radical Islam") that is oppressive to women. She refers both to verses in the Qur’an as well as modern-day Muslim practices. For example, Sura 4:34 of the Qur’an says women should obey the male members of their families—even if, say, they are forbidden to leave their homes—and if they do not obey then the husband may beat his wife: "As for those [women] from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them." According to Hirsi Ali, there are millions of Muslim men who carry out that simple verse, beating and oppressing their women in the name of Islam. For daring to voice such a scandalous testimony, the young Somali was forced to flee her country under threat of death, becoming a latter-day Salman Rushdie.

Muslim clerics like Bakri and Hamza (both immigrant British citizens, by the way), have not exactly been shy about their modus operandi: to exploit the Western system which guarantees them free speech, well-being, and respect for religious rights in order to ultimately impose their intolerant (and in many cases barbaric) laws on that same Western society.
This clever brand of jihad confirms Bardot’s contention that "Not only does [Islam] fail to give way to our laws and customs. Quite the contrary, as time goes by it tries to impose its own law on us."
Thus Spencer devotes a good deal of his book to an in-depth look at the Islamic concept of jihad as it is preached today in mosques around the world. He carefully examines traditional Islamic teachings to reveal the advocacy of violence justified by religion. In his analysis, jihad is a violent doctrine of theology, a tradition, and a legal system within Islam. He answers critics who hold that jihad is not holy war by saying that they are unwilling to face uncomfortable facts of Islamic history and theology. For example, Muhammad himself taught—and he was very clear about this—that jihad is about making war (not peace), about fighting unbelievers in order to establish the supremacy and hegemony of the Islamic political and social system, not just the religion.


more

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-.../1126378/posts (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1126378/posts)

[swethirte]

There is a good reason why Islam is the largest religion in the world, it offers the poor love and a strong will power to believe that they are always under the shade of God whatever there situation and also if they strive and struggle in this life they will surely be rewarded in the next.


Er, it isn't. That's Christianity.

[swethirte]

Ask any doctor it's good for you. I had a friend at school, christian lad who got extremely ill and it was because he got an infection on the inside of the extra skin on his knob, so he had to get circumstised.

The skin holds in dirt and bacteria and speak to a Dr. and he or she will tell you circumsision would do you good rather then bad.

Jews do it as well.

This is precisely the sort of ill-informed attitude that Islam promulgates.

[swethirte]

Difference is that it is a religious mandatory instruction of Islam and Judaism. It is not in Christianity. Christians who circumcise do so because it dates back to cultural traditions of older religions such as Africa and the people are following such traditions, nothing to do whatsoever with Christianity (Egypt is probably the oldest known source of the ritual)

Initiation rituals of Christianity is not mutilation but a splash of water on the babys head.

The mutilation of one's child's genitals should be banned, and result in a 20 years or more prison sentence. When they're 18, they can decide for themselves if they want part of their penis or vagina removed.

[swethirte]

Not only that, she agreed, she wanted him and she never changed her mind she loved and he loved her more than anything.


Children can often be brainwashed far more easily than adults. This is what today we would call grooming. Muhammad was a paedophile.

[swethirte]

Age of consent was lowered to 16 for paedophiles in the government, nobody objected to it.

So those big fat ugly smelly bastards in power can have orgies with kids at age 16.

But 1400 years ago, a man married a woman and consumated her at age 12, it was the normal age in those days, some got married even younger.

NOT in the Muslim world, they got married younger elsewhere.
in Habasha (Ethiopia) which was Christian at the time :) just in case

That's the hypocrisy and double standard to tarnish Islam :) well what the heck

And before Mohamed saws was born they used to burry their own daughters alive, because, in those days it was embarassing to have just girls.

When Mohamed saws, arrived he changed the whole culture of the pagans, they tried to assassinate him on numerous occasions, but they couldn't why? humm

He didn't have an army at that time it was right at the begining, so who protected him?
he only had two friends and one frail uncle on his side the rest wanted him dead.

No, you still don't seem to get it, do you? Whatever previous practices in the West or elsewhere might have been, since then we have evolved. Islam can't evolve, because its laws are set in stone forever, and are as barbaric as one might expect from a book written 1400 years ago.

[eternal_spirit]

True, child brides still happen Today. Easily proven with a little thing known as a search engine or you tube etc.

[adbasque]

Real Paedophiles

http://aaronrusso.byethost3.com/a/?p=396

We have evolved since

Blair covering up paedophile scandal?


While British Prime Minister Tony Blair is under criminal suspicion in the “honours-for-cash” scandal that has rocked his Labour government, we have been told that there is an even more explosive scandal that Blair, up to now, has managed to hide behind the draconian British policy of issuing “D-Notices,” government orders that prohibit the British media from reporting on certain “national security” cases.

In 1999, an international investigation of child pornographers and paedophiles run by Britain’s National Criminal Intelligence Service, code named Operation Ore, resulted in 7,250 suspects being identified in the United Kingdom alone. Some 1850 people were criminally charged in the case and there were 1451 convictions. Almost 500 people were interviewed “under caution” by police, meaning they were suspects. Some 900 individuals remain under investigation. In early 2003, British police began to close in on some top suspects in the Operation Ore investigation, including senior members of Blair’s government.

[adbasque]

The Sunday Times is reported to have obtained an FBI list of Labour MPs who have used credit cards to pay for internet child pornography, and Blair has responded by imposing a massive news blackout, failing however to stop the arrest of one of his most important aides, Phillip Lyon.

We have evolved in the west since :)

[swethirte]

The Sunday Times is reported to have obtained an FBI list of Labour MPs who have used credit cards to pay for internet child pornography, and Blair has responded by imposing a massive news blackout, failing however to stop the arrest of one of his most important aides, Phillip Lyon.

We have evolved in the west since :)

Yes, because such doings (assuming they're true) would not even be considered newsworthy in Muslim countries.

[adbasque]

We have evolved in the west since :)

‘Assorted Party Political Perverts for your attention’

Tory Party General election candidate, Michael Powell - Convicted and jailed for 3 years for downloading hardcore child porn.

Tory Party Councillor (Wickbar/Bristol) Roger Talboys - Convicted and jailed for 6 years for multiple sex attacks on children.

Tory Party MP (Billericay) Harvey Proctor - Stood trial for sex offences of a sado-masochistic nature against teenage boys, and was forced to resign.

Tory Party Councillor ( Stratford-upon-Avon ) b>Christopher Pilkington - Convicted of downloading hardcore child porn on his PC. Placed on sex offenders register and forced to resign.

Tory Party councillor ( Coventry ), Peter Stidworthy - Charged with indecent assault of a 15-year old boy.

Tory Party Mayor ( North Tyneside ), Chris Morgan - Forced to resign after being arrested twice in 2 weeks, for indecent assault on a 15-year old girl, and for suspicion of downloading child porn.

But we have evolved in the west since :)

[swethirte]

We have evolved in the west since :)

‘Assorted Party Political Perverts for your attention’

Tory Party General election candidate, Michael Powell - Convicted and jailed for 3 years for downloading hardcore child porn.

Tory Party Councillor (Wickbar/Bristol) Roger Talboys - Convicted and jailed for 6 years for multiple sex attacks on children.

Tory Party MP (Billericay) Harvey Proctor - Stood trial for sex offences of a sado-masochistic nature against teenage boys, and was forced to resign.

Tory Party Councillor ( Stratford-upon-Avon ) b>Christopher Pilkington - Convicted of downloading hardcore child porn on his PC. Placed on sex offenders register and forced to resign.

Tory Party councillor ( Coventry ), Peter Stidworthy - Charged with indecent assault of a 15-year old boy.

Tory Party Mayor ( North Tyneside ), Chris Morgan - Forced to resign after being arrested twice in 2 weeks, for indecent assault on a 15-year old girl, and for suspicion of downloading child porn.

But we have evolved in the west since :)

Yes, we have. The very fact that these people were arrested proves so. You honestly still don't understand, do you? Acts of parliament in all Western countries are regularly changed and updated, but this is impossible under Islamic law because the Koran can't be changed.

[nayan]

We are here to live and die, simple, because that's what I see. Why do i think i'm here? I don't think i'm here, I AM here. I'm asking you because you believe in it.

You never said it, but it shows the meaning. 'A person will enter heaven with the grace of god' and that's what you believe, so i'm asking you, what happends to a person who doesn't have the 'grace of god'?

:cool:

[raven200]

I've got to disagree with you there fella. There is no medical reason for the vast majority of people to be circumcised. Proper cleaning does away with any potential problem in most folks.

Circumcision is, imo, barbaric and unneccesary for both males and females.

Just want to make one thing very clear here, people keep repeating it but I don't know if it has been clarified.

Islam does not allow circumsision of girls in any form, it never has done. In African countries some tribes do it but it's nothing to do with Islam.

All I can say to people is to look into advantages of male circumstision in medical journals and you will be surprised.

Also it is'nt mutilation of the body, would you say ear piercing or piercing of any form is also mutilation of the body?

[raven200]

Er, it isn't. That's Christianity.

Ermmm Yes it is the largest religion, Christianity is losing followers day in day out, but Islam is gaining more everyday.

Check stats and facts and you'll know.

[swethirte]

Just want to make one thing very clear here, people keep repeating it but I don't know if it has been clarified.

Islam does not allow circumsision of girls in any form, it never has done. In African countries some tribes do it but it's nothing to do with Islam.

All I can say to people is to look into advantages of circumstision in medical journals and you will be surprised.

Also it is'nt mutilation of the body, would you say ear piercing or piercing of any form is also mutilation of the body?

I would say that ear piercing etc. is the sort of thing that babies should not be subjected to. As for the medical advantages of circumcision there are conflicting reports, but it's definitely something a person should decide for themselves, when an adult. Infantile genital mutilation is disgusting and abhorant.

[swethirte]

Ermmm Yes it is the largest religion, Christianity is losing followers day in day out, but Islam is gaining more everyday.

Check stats and facts and you'll know.

Islam tends to gain more by its much higher birth rate.

[alzee]

Just want to make one thing very clear here, people keep repeating it but I don't know if it has been clarified.

Islam does not allow circumsision of girls in any form, it never has done. In African countries some tribes do it but it's nothing to do with Islam.

All I can say to people is to look into advantages of male circumstision in medical journals and you will be surprised.

Also it is'nt mutilation of the body, would you say ear piercing or piercing of any form is also mutilation of the body?

I wasn't implying that female circumcision is allowed or promoted within Islam, but thanks for clarifying.

I've had a quick Search for medical benefits of circumcision and I can't really find any that are backed up by stronge evidence. Following is a good link which shows there are very few medical reasons for it.
http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/menshealth/facts/circumcision.htm

Ermmm Yes it is the largest religion, Christianity is losing followers day in day out, but Islam is gaining more everyday.

Check stats and facts and you'll know.

I read up on this last night, it seems to be a tough one to nail down accurately. But overall, Christianity (which includes all denominations) is still bigger than Islam. Whether that'll be the case in another decade or so remains to be seen.

[eternal_spirit]

Insane Islamic World - 10 Year Old Bride




Jun 11, 2008 at 9:24 AM
2 comments (http://catalinamoreno88.vox.com/library/post/insane-islamic-world---10-year-old-bride.html#comments)






http://a5.vox.com/6a00f48cec12f4000300fae8c1f8dd000b-320pi (http://catalinamoreno88.vox.com/library/photo/6a00f48cec12f4000300fae8c1f8dd000b.html)
Yemen child bride Nujood Ali gets divorce (http://catalinamoreno88.vox.com/library/photo/6a00f48cec12f4000300fae8c1f8dd000b.html)





SANA, YEMEN -- The little girl was waist-high, so small that the lawyers, clerks and judges hurrying through the courthouse almost missed her.

As lunchtime arrived and the crowds of noisy men and women cleared away, a curious judge asked her what she was doing sitting alone on a bench.


"I came to get a divorce," 10-year-old Nujood Ali told the jurist.

Her impoverished parents had married her off to a man more than three times her age, who beat her and forced her to have sex, she explained. When she told her father and mother that she wanted out of the marriage, they refused to help. So an aunt provided her with bus money to travel to court and seek a divorce.

Within days of that April 2 encounter, Nujood's tale and the plight of child brides in Yemen made international headlines. And thanks to the efforts of human rights lawyer Shada Nasser, who took up her cause, the girl at the center of the story has begun to overcome her trauma and dream of a better life.

Yemeni law sets the age of consent at 15. But tribal customs and interpretations of Islam often trump the law in this country of 23 million. A 2006 study conducted by Sana University reported that 52% of girls were married by 18.

Publicity surrounding Nujood's case prompted calls to raise the legal age for marriage to 18 for both men and women. Yemen's conservative lawmakers refused to take up the issue. But the case sparked public discussion and newspaper headlines. Several more child brides came forward, including a girl who sought a divorce last week in the southern city of Ibb.

"This case opened the door," Nasser says.

Nujood says that at first, she felt ashamed about what had happened to her. "But I passed through that," she says, eyes narrowing beneath her black head scarf.

"All I want now is to finish my education," she adds, her mouth curling into a smile. "I want to be a lawyer."

The girl is being identified in this story because her name already has been widely publicized in Yemen, and neither her parents nor her lawyer objected.

Nujood's unemployed father, Ali Mohammed Ahdal, has two wives and 16 children. He is among the many tribal Yemenis who have migrated to the capital looking for work. Instead, he found misery.

He arranged to have Nujood married in February to Faez Ali Thamer, a thirtysomething motorcycle deliveryman from his native province, Hajja.

Nujood's parents say they were trying to do what was best for their daughter and didn't even receive a dowry, a claim many Yemenis don't believe. The parents say the groom had promised he wouldn't have sex with her until she reached puberty.

"We asked him to raise her," said Shuaieh, the girl's mother.

The groom has disputed that claim.

Ahdal, in his mid-40s, says he wanted Nujood to avoid the fate of two of his older sisters. One was kidnapped by a rival clan and another wound up in jail for trying to defend her, an example of the murky intertribal disputes that bedevil Yemen.

"I was trying to protect her," Ahdal says during an interview in his family's decrepit two-room flat on the capital's outskirts.

Nujood looked forward to getting married, not understanding what it really meant. Aside from being a pre-adolescent bride, she is a fairly typical little girl. She likes playing hide-and-seek and tug-of-war with her friends and siblings. Her favorite colors are red and yellow, she says, and her favorite flavors are chocolate and coconut. She loves dogs and cats and dreams of being a turtle so she could swim in the sea.

"I've never seen the sea," she says.

About 40 people attended the wedding in the village of Wadi Laa, where the groom lived. As a wedding gift, she received three new dresses and a $20 wedding ring. She was to live with him and his family.

The trouble started on the first night, when he demanded that they share a mattress. She resisted, walking out of the room, only to have him follow. Sometimes he beat her into submission. For weeks, she cried all day and dreaded the nights, when he would enter the room, blow out the oil lamp and demand sex.

"I asked him not to sleep next to me," she recalls. "He told me, 'No, we sleep together in the same room. Your father agreed to accept me as a husband.' "

On a visit weeks later to her parents' house in the capital, she wept, saying that her husband was doing unmentionable things to her.

Her father said there was nothing he could do.

"My cousins would have killed me if I dishonored the family by asking for a divorce," he said.

But her mother's sister discreetly advised her to go to court.

The bewildered judge who found Nujood on the bench decided to bring her to his house for the weekend. His daughters had a swing and toys she'd never seen. They had satellite television, and for three days she feasted on cartoons.

Once the workweek began, the judge dispatched soldiers to arrest Nujood's father and husband. He placed Nujood in the care of an uncle, her mother's brother.

Still, the lawyers and judges had no idea how to handle her case. Nujood and her uncle languished in the courthouse for days until a middle-aged woman, the only one in the courthouse without an Islamic headdress covering her face, approached them.

"Are you Nujood?" asked Nasser, the lawyer, among Yemen's leading women's rights activists. "Are you the one asking for divorce?"

She was, Nujood replied.

"I couldn't believe my eyes," Nasser says. The girl reminded her of her own daughter, Lamia, 8.

Nasser went to the cell where Thamer, the husband, was being held, and was shocked by the age difference between the two. "Why did you sleep with her?" she demanded. "She's a little girl."

He didn't deny it, Nasser recalls. Instead he complained that Nujood's father had said she was much taller and better looking than she really was.

Nasser vowed to Nujood that she would take her case without pay and that she would take care of her. She took her to her upscale home and offered to let her stay there.

Outraged, Nasser also called her contacts at the Yemen Times, the country's English-language newspaper. The story of the brave little girl who went to court on her own to stand up for her rights captivated the country. News agencies picked up the story and sent it around the world.

When a sympathetic judge agreed to hear her case several weeks later, reporters packed the courtroom.

Verbally, Judge Mohammed Ghadi was merciless to the husband.

"You could not find another woman to marry in all of Yemen?" he demanded.

But legally, there was little he could do. No provision in Yemeni law provides for prosecution on sexual abuse charges within a marriage. Not only did the husband and father go free, but Thamer demanded $250, the equivalent of four months' salary for a poor Yemeni, to agree to a divorce.

A sympathetic lawyer donated the cash.

Nujood was elated. "She was smiling," Nasser recalls. "She said, 'I want chocolate. I want pears, cake and toys.' "

Nasser bought her some new clothes. Donations began pouring in, with several wealthy Europeans offering to pay for her education. One newspaper held a big party for her. A Yemeni journalist gave her a cellphone.

When the controversy died down, Nujood insisted on going back to live with her parents, most likely because she is very close to her sister Haifa, 8. Her father promised that he would not marry off Nujood or any of her sisters.

The girl has refused to see a psychologist or a gynecologist. She says she doesn't like doctors. And besides, she says, the experience has made her stronger and wiser.

She says she's had enough of marriage and domestic life, and looks forward to beginning third grade and pursuing dreams she never knew she had.

"I want to defend oppressed people," she says. "I want to be like Shada. I want to be an example for all the other girls."

http://catalinamoreno88.vox.com/library/post/insane-islamic-world---10-year-old-bride.html

[eternal_spirit]

Just want to make one thing very clear here, people keep repeating it but I don't know if it has been clarified.

Islam does not allow circumsision of girls in any form, it never has done. In African countries some tribes do it but it's nothing to do with Islam.




Wrong.

It's true there is no religious instruction in Christianity to circumcise. Christians who circumcise do so because it dates back to cultural traditions of older religions such as in Africa and the people are following such traditions, nothing to do whatsoever with Christianity (Egypt is probably the oldest known source of the ritual)

However in Islam it is a religious instruction according to this

The practice of circumcision in Islam comes from the Hadith, Shariah law and the consensus of Islamic communities.

The Hadith

Narrated Umm Atiyyah al-Ansariyyah: A woman used to perform circumcision in Medina. The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said to her: Do not cut severely as that is better for a woman and more desirable for a husband. (Sunan Abu-Dawud: book 41, number 5251, Hasan)

Part 2.
The Shariah

The following reference to Shariah law comes from Ahmad ibn Naqib al-Misri, Reliance of the Traveller - A Classic Manual of Islamic Sacred Law. This book comes with the approval al-Azhar University.

Al-Azhar University ( الأزهر الشريف) is the leading institution for Sunni learning in the Islamic world.

[raven200]

Islam tends to gain more by its much higher birth rate.

It's not just birth rate, the fact is that people convert all the time where as more people leave christianity in relation to convert.

I must stress that one of the biggest factors being for high conversion in Islam is the message of peace that is the essence.

Islam translates ; "Peace and submission"

The only reason it seems violent is due to uneducated people being mislead by a very dangerouse group of individuals. Yes those people do claim to be muslims but in fact they only want power. I am totally against these people and when countries want rid of them, I am with them as well. If I was to see these people spreading hate in the country I live in. I would be more than willing to fight them off with my country, which is the united kingdom. Islam teaches to respect the country you reside in and follow it's laws obediently.

I would hate for the world to be transformed into any form of extremist religious cult, be it Christain extremists Jewish or Muslim.

So what I am saying is that we should work togather and not hate each other by categorising.:)

[synergy777]

good to see frank and open debate.

however there a few things people need to be objective about about.

1: the elite run/operate peado rings, its stems from occult/satanic practices.

the elite run the sex/human trafficking, drugs, weapon trades. thus rings coming from christianity, islam, judaism etc exist. but the people operating these rings, are not from any religion, other than a satanic one. they use the organised religions as cover/diguise. its about image, fooling the electorate, eg i am good christian, family man, i am good muslim vote for me, etc.

thus the religion of the elite is satanism/luciferic/occult.

to blame any organised religion is myopic and inaccurate imho.


2: organised religion has been hijacked, corrupted and is being utilised by the elite for their own nefarious purposes. they corrupt/control religion in order to destroy it, thus leaving opportunity to replace it with a satanic/luciferic/occult religion.

hence there is corruption in all religous texts where the hand of man has been used, eg editing/writing the texts, using them for political/spiritual aims, thus fulfilling the elite agenda.

all religions have a core of truth, all religions at the core, have the same message. there is one supreme being, we are his/her creations/children, we are all equal, we ahould all love one another, we should all develop ourselves spiritually and intellectually.

can anyone see how this philosophy/message might not be good for the elite and their agenda ?

3: people tend to confuse societal, cultural values with religous values. traditions of man are not on the same level as universal spiritual truths. we are seeing the limitations of mans intellect/systems everday eg engineered economic collapse, moral decay, society breaking apart, people having material possessions but not being fulfilled/content.

the intellectual snobbery of athiests, materialistic disciples of consumerism, media brainwashed masses etc. take a look around, its disgrace, the way humanity has worshipped itself and its ego. and now the wheels are coming off, people can no longer handle it. thus finally the trend of materialism, ego, intellectual snobbery/arrogance is coming to an end.

4: any text that promotes war, elitism, etc is not the word of the god. it is the word of the elite/priesthood, masquerading as god.

thus seek the truth in the texts by yourself. the word of god does not need to be written down by the hands of men, corrupt kings and priests etc. in all religous texts there is falsehood, falsehood added by the elite to support empire. whether this be in the bible eg deutronomy or the koran.

the word of god is love/compassion, and lets be honest with ourselves, deep down we all know what the right thing is to do in most situations, but we ignore what we know as right, when it interferes with our plans, when it stops us aquiring what we desire. thus we use corrupted texts to justify, legitimise our own evil/selfish desires.

we have 7 sins withins, we have prejudices and vices. we only need to look at ourselves as individuals, and make our own changes.

we cannot change the world, unless we change/improve ourselves.

the truth paradoxicaly is not that complex, its simple. but living the way the truth tells us to is very hard, this is the test. the truth is simple, living it is hard.

----------------------------------------------

i think all the good/compassionate people, whether they be from an organised religion, or follow their own spiritual path, need to be the leaders of change. if not we will have extremists, zealots, fascists, athiests, etc running things.

all its takes for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing. compassion and courage, wisdom and composure is whats required.

this is a war/challenge on many levels.

[swethirte]

It's not just birth rate, the fact is that people convert all the time where as more people leave christianity in relation to convert.

I must stress that one of the biggest factors being for high conversion in Islam is the message of peace that is the essence.

Islam translates ; "Peace and submission"

The only reason it seems violent is due to uneducated people being mislead by a very dangerouse group of individuals. Yes those people do claim to be muslims but in fact they only want power. I am totally against these people and when countries want rid of them, I am with them as well. If I was to see these people spreading hate in the country I live in. I would be more than willing to fight them off with my country, which is the united kingdom. Islam teaches to respect the country you reside in and follow it's laws obediently.

I would hate for the world to be transformed into any form of extremist religious cult, be it Christain extremists Jewish or Muslim.

So what I am saying is that we should work togather and not hate each other by categorising.:)

"Islam" comes from the Arabic root al-Silm which means "submission" or "surrender", so the sort of peace you're talking about is that which comes after a defeat in battle. It is not, incidentally, derived from the root al-Saleem, which means peace in general. http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/Myths-of-Islam.htm#islammeanspeace

[raven200]

good to see frank and open debate.

however there a few things people need to be objective about about.

1: the elite run/operate peado rings, its stems from occult/satanic practices.

the elite run the sex/human trafficking, drugs, weapon trades. thus rings coming from christianity, islam, judaism etc exist. but the people operating these rings, are not from any religion, other than a satanic one. they use the organised religions as cover/diguise. its about image, fooling the electorate, eg i am good christian, family man, i am good muslim vote for me, etc.

thus the religion of the elite is satanism/luciferic/occult.

to blame any organised religion is myopic and inaccurate imho.


2: organised religion has been hijacked, corrupted and is being utilised by the elite for their own nefarious purposes. they corrupt/control religion in order to destroy it, thus leaving opportunity to replace it with a satanic/luciferic/occult religion.

hence there is corruption in all religous texts where the hand of man has been used, eg editing/writing the texts, using them for political/spiritual aims, thus fulfilling the elite agenda.

all religions have a core of truth, all religions at the core, have the same message. there is one supreme being, we are his/her creations/children, we are all equal, we ahould all love one another, we should all develop ourselves spiritually and intellectually.

can anyone see how this philosophy/message might not be good for the elite and their agenda ?

3: people tend to confuse societal, cultural values with religous values. traditions of man are not on the same level as universal spiritual truths. we are seeing the limitations of mans intellect/systems everday eg engineered economic collapse, moral decay, society breaking apart, people having material possessions but not being fulfilled/content.

the intellectual snobbery of athiests, materialistic disciples of consumerism, media brainwashed masses etc. take a look around, its disgrace, the way humanity has worshipped itself and its ego. and now the wheels are coming off, people can no longer handle it. thus finally the trend of materialism, ego, intellectual snobbery/arrogance is coming to an end.

4: any text that promotes war, elitism, etc is not the word of the god. it is the word of the elite/priesthood, masquerading as god.

thus seek the truth in the texts by yourself. the word of god does not need to be written down by the hands of men, corrupt kings and priests etc. in all religous texts there is falsehood, falsehood added by the elite to support empire. whether this be in the bible eg deutronomy or the koran.

the word of god is love/compassion, and lets be honest with ourselves, deep down we all know what the right thing is to do in most situations, but we ignore what we know as right, when it interferes with our plans, when it stops us aquiring what we desire. thus we use corrupted texts to justify, legitimise our own evil/selfish desires.

we have 7 sins withins, we have prejudices and vices. we only need to look at ourselves as individuals, and make our own changes.

we cannot change the world, unless we change/improve ourselves.

the truth paradoxicaly is not that complex, its simple. but living the way the truth tells us to is very hard, this is the test. the truth is simple, living it is hard.

----------------------------------------------

i think all the good/compassionate people, whether they be from an organised religion, or follow their own spiritual path, need to be the leaders of change. if not we will have extremists, zealots, fascists, athiests, etc running things.

all its takes for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing. compassion and courage, wisdom and composure is whats required.

this is a war/challenge on many levels.

Excellent answer :) totally agree withy you my friend.

[swethirte]

good to see frank and open debate.

however there a few things people need to be objective about about.

1: the elite run/operate peado rings, its stems from occult/satanic practices.

the elite run the sex/human trafficking, drugs, weapon trades. thus rings coming from christianity, islam, judaism etc exist. but the people operating these rings, are not from any religion, other than a satanic one. they use the organised religions as cover/diguise. its about image, fooling the electorate, eg i am good christian, family man, i am good muslim vote for me, etc.

thus the religion of the elite is satanism/luciferic/occult.

to blame any organised religion is myopic and inaccurate imho.


2: organised religion has been hijacked, corrupted and is being utilised by the elite for their own nefarious purposes. they corrupt/control religion in order to destroy it, thus leaving opportunity to replace it with a satanic/luciferic/occult religion.

hence there is corruption in all religous texts where the hand of man has been used, eg editing/writing the texts, using them for political/spiritual aims, thus fulfilling the elite agenda.

all religions have a core of truth, all religions at the core, have the same message. there is one supreme being, we are his/her creations/children, we are all equal, we ahould all love one another, we should all develop ourselves spiritually and intellectually.

can anyone see how this philosophy/message might not be good for the elite and their agenda ?

3: people tend to confuse societal, cultural values with religous values. traditions of man are not on the same level as universal spiritual truths. we are seeing the limitations of mans intellect/systems everday eg engineered economic collapse, moral decay, society breaking apart, people having material possessions but not being fulfilled/content.

the intellectual snobbery of athiests, materialistic disciples of consumerism, media brainwashed masses etc. take a look around, its disgrace, the way humanity has worshipped itself and its ego. and now the wheels are coming off, people can no longer handle it. thus finally the trend of materialism, ego, intellectual snobbery/arrogance is coming to an end.

4: any text that promotes war, elitism, etc is not the word of the god. it is the word of the elite/priesthood, masquerading as god.

thus seek the truth in the texts by yourself. the word of god does not need to be written down by the hands of men, corrupt kings and priests etc. in all religous texts there is falsehood, falsehood added by the elite to support empire. whether this be in the bible eg deutronomy or the koran.

the word of god is love/compassion, and lets be honest with ourselves, deep down we all know what the right thing is to do in most situations, but we ignore what we know as right, when it interferes with our plans, when it stops us aquiring what we desire. thus we use corrupted texts to justify, legitimise our own evil/selfish desires.

we have 7 sins withins, we have prejudices and vices. we only need to look at ourselves as individuals, and make our own changes.

we cannot change the world, unless we change/improve ourselves.

the truth paradoxicaly is not that complex, its simple. but living the way the truth tells us to is very hard, this is the test. the truth is simple, living it is hard.

----------------------------------------------

i think all the good/compassionate people, whether they be from an organised religion, or follow their own spiritual path, need to be the leaders of change. if not we will have extremists, zealots, fascists, athiests, etc running things.

all its takes for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing. compassion and courage, wisdom and composure is whats required.

this is a war/challenge on many levels.

If Islam has been currupted, it was currupted by Muhammad himself, who filled the Koran full of hate speech and advocacy of violence.

[raven200]

Wrong.

It's true there is no religious instruction in Christianity to circumcise. Christians who circumcise do so because it dates back to cultural traditions of older religions such as in Africa and the people are following such traditions, nothing to do whatsoever with Christianity (Egypt is probably the oldest known source of the ritual)

However in Islam it is a religious instruction according to this

The practice of circumcision in Islam comes from the Hadith, Shariah law and the consensus of Islamic communities.

The Hadith

Narrated Umm Atiyyah al-Ansariyyah: A woman used to perform circumcision in Medina. The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said to her: Do not cut severely as that is better for a woman and more desirable for a husband. (Sunan Abu-Dawud: book 41, number 5251, Hasan)

Part 2.
The Shariah

The following reference to Shariah law comes from Ahmad ibn Naqib al-Misri, Reliance of the Traveller - A Classic Manual of Islamic Sacred Law. This book comes with the approval al-Azhar University.

Al-Azhar University ( الأزهر الشريف) is the leading institution for Sunni learning in the Islamic world.

The above hadith you have mentioned is absolutely incorrect, as it contradicts the quran.

In the Quran there are no such teachings. You need to understand that hadith are word of mouth passed down and on many occasions a lot of nonsense has been added with reality a bit like the Bible. Though these are always checked when compared to teaching in Quran.

So it's wrong what you say, Islam does not promote it.

also look at link below:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunan_Abu-Dawud

Abu dawud himself admitted that the collection of hadith he had added were unauthentic.

[synergy777]

the ages of brides is well wrong. i think however its to do with society/culture/history. in this modern age we have moved on from medieval practices eg child brides. we have to remember some parts of the world still operate draconian values. in europe there was a history of child brides. they changed this, due to better living standards/life expectancy, increased womens rights etc. frankly the islamic cultures that use child brides, are falsely using islam to justify it. many hadiths/imams are not be trusted.

we have to remember that religions has been used to justify evil things. after all christianity was used for the justification of slavery/curse of ham, genocide against indigneous peoples and even even imperialism/empire ergo spreading the gospel.

adding to the irony, considering jesus was brown/middle eastern/asiatic. they used the bible to justify slavery of jesus's very own people, thats the brilliance of the elite, and stupidity of the mass, you and me.

-------------------------------

as for mohammed, jesus, buddha, lets be frank, we don't know truly what any of them said, what we know is what the priests wrote and attributed to them.

all i know is that if i was the elite, and i had people/masses who were arrogant and ignorant, like we all are, thus with the right words, they could be easily manipulated. i would write whatever served my agenda, and helped the aformentioned arrogant/ignorant people revel in their lewd behaviour, selfish desires. people love justifcation for their own desires, after all if they can back it up with scripture, then they have gods approval for their own evil actions, don't they.

its text book psychology, the art of propaganda. look at the gobbels/nazis etc.

[alzee]

The above hadith you have mentioned is absolutely incorrect, as it contradicts the quran.

In the Quran there are no such teachings. You need to understand that hadith are word of mouth passed down and on many occasions a lot of nonsense has been added with reality a bit like the Bible. Though these are always checked when compared to teaching in Quran.

So it's wrong what you say, Islam does not promote it.

also look at link below:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunan_Abu-Dawud

Abu dawud himself admitted that the collection of hadith he had added were unauthentic.

You'll note that it's been pointed out several times to people in this thread that they're quoting from texts which the Quran differs with. They carry on copy n pasting crap though - nothing you say will change their minds or make them listen. Good effort tho ^^

[eternal_spirit]

If Islam has been currupted, it was currupted by Muhammad himself, who filled the Koran full of hate speech and advocacy of violence.
Exactly it was always corrupt, sick and evil right from the beginning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by swethirte http://www.davidicke.com/forum/images/buttons_green/viewpost.gif (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1026542#post1026542)
Islam tends to gain more by its much higher birth rate.
Polygamy! It's simple mathematics. 5 wifes can = 30 plus children, a none Muslim woman who marrys a Muslim man has to convert to Islam, their children will be born into Islam.

There's loopholes in British law, that allows Muslim men to have multiple wives (Polygamy) because it's a religious practice it's allowed by law, even though Polygamy practiced by none Muslims in Britain is illegal.

So, they marry none Muslims who convert and then some men will bring over their other wives and familys from Islamic countries to which ever country they live and can get away with this con to spread and convert people to Islam (that's their main goal) to out breed what they call us kaffirs and infidels.

[eternal_spirit]

You'll note that it's been pointed out several times to people in this thread that they're quoting from texts which the Quran differs with. They carry on copy n pasting crap though - nothing you say will change their minds or make them listen. Good effort tho ^^
Anyone can edit or write a wiki article, not a good source.
Regardless the Hadiths are part of Koran, and are considered divine instructions.
You still genitally mutilate your boys from your religious instructions, to form a covenant with your God. The Koran, Hadiths, Sharia are likened to the Talmud of Judaism. (which is their main authority)

[raven200]

Exactly it was always corrupt, sick and evil right from the beginning.


Polygamy! It's simple mathematics. 5 wifes can = 30 plus children, a none Muslim woman who marrys a Muslim man has to convert to Islam, their children will be born into Islam.

There's loopholes in British law, that allows Muslims men to have multiple wives (Polygamy) becasue it's a religious practice it's allowed by law, even though Polygamy practiced by none Muslims in Britain is illegal.

So, they marry none Muslims who convert and then some men will bring over their other wives and familys from Islamic countries to which ever country they live and can get away with this con to spread and convert people to Islam (that's their main goal) to our breed what they call us kaffirs and infidels.


You seem to make this into something ET (Extra terrestrial) They come from the skies and shoot at us and fly away. Obviously in your head they do the evil laugh as well "MUAHAHAHAHAHA".

Are you not aware that many British white citizens except and follow Islam, and these arn't families married into people from outside of the country. These are people born here and are couples that are both white.

Why do you play the cards of immigration???

Are you BNP dude!!!

You seem to be coming out of the curtains. Why don't you admit it clearly your BNP or are you ashmed and want to hide it??

[synergy777]

alot of african cultures also follow multiple marriages eg nigerians, and they are christians. also haven's some christian sects/groups engaged in young wifes, multiple marriages, eg america, last year there was a big case.

again, people need to be objective/unibiased, and all look at all the facts.

who knows maybe muslims are following henry the 8th's example, lol

personally why any bloke would want more than one nagging wife, is beyond me, lol.

[eternal_spirit]

Money was spent lavishly to seduce Christian women and girls any way possible. The cost in the seventies and early eighties was about five thousand Egyptian pounds for the entrapment of each girl. The money was split so that the Muslim man who lured the Christian woman into conversion received half and the members of the police and collaborating associations would receive the other half.

The work of the proselytizing associations in Egypt continues to take place and the payments for deceptive conversions are now higher. Today the average payment for an ordinary girl is ten thousand Egyptian pounds and payments can be as high as two hundred thousand Egyptian pounds if the girl is from a well-known Christian family, or is the daughter of a university professor, a deputy minister, or related to someone from the clergy.
Like my father, I too was involved with a proselytizing association. After we succeeded in converting a Christian woman, we would antagonize the Christians by parading the converted girl through the streets. We played loud music and waved flags while shouting "Allahu Akbar" to declare the victory of Islam.

http://islam-watch.org/LeavingIslam/confessions.htm
read more here

[eternal_spirit]

Are you BNP dude!!!

You seem to be coming out of the curtains. Why don't you admit it clearly your BNP or are you ashmed and want to hide it??

No I am not BNP. Are you Nation of Islam?

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52154

[raven200]

Money was spent lavishly to seduce Christian women and girls any way possible. The cost in the seventies and early eighties was about five thousand Egyptian pounds for the entrapment of each girl. The money was split so that the Muslim man who lured the Christian woman into conversion received half and the members of the police and collaborating associations would receive the other half.

The work of the proselytizing associations in Egypt continues to take place and the payments for deceptive conversions are now higher. Today the average payment for an ordinary girl is ten thousand Egyptian pounds and payments can be as high as two hundred thousand Egyptian pounds if the girl is from a well-known Christian family, or is the daughter of a university professor, a deputy minister, or related to someone from the clergy.
Like my father, I too was involved with a proselytizing association. After we succeeded in converting a Christian woman, we would antagonize the Christians by parading the converted girl through the streets. We played loud music and waved flags while shouting "Allahu Akbar" to declare the victory of Islam.

http://islam-watch.org/LeavingIslam/confessions.htm
read more here

I think this will be my last response to you, your not worth any effort. You can't answer questions, you seem to be unable to read what others write. Maybe major dyslexia with a whole lot of self obsession.

Dude your nuts :confused:

[synergy777]

Money was spent lavishly to seduce Christian women and girls any way possible. The cost in the seventies and early eighties was about five thousand Egyptian pounds for the entrapment of each girl. The money was split so that the Muslim man who lured the Christian woman into conversion received half and the members of the police and collaborating associations would receive the other half.

The work of the proselytizing associations in Egypt continues to take place and the payments for deceptive conversions are now higher. Today the average payment for an ordinary girl is ten thousand Egyptian pounds and payments can be as high as two hundred thousand Egyptian pounds if the girl is from a well-known Christian family, or is the daughter of a university professor, a deputy minister, or related to someone from the clergy.
Like my father, I too was involved with a proselytizing association. After we succeeded in converting a Christian woman, we would antagonize the Christians by parading the converted girl through the streets. We played loud music and waved flags while shouting "Allahu Akbar" to declare the victory of Islam.

http://islam-watch.org/LeavingIslam/confessions.htm
read more here

muslims also get rewarded to converting hindu/sikh women aswell. thus its not only christian women. also what about christians who went to africa, south america, india etc to convert.

i think people should look at all religions, thus they can see all religions have corrupted doctrines and practices. then they should look at all cultures, for corrupt doctrines and practices. then they will see the similarities.

alot of this debate is rather juvenile, and myopic. have people forget to use context, critical thought etc.

[eternal_spirit]

I think this will be my last response to you, your not worth any effort. You can't answer questions, you seem to be unable to read what others write. Maybe major dyslexia with a whole lot of self obsession.

Dude your nuts :confused:

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: Why don't you read the article before commenting. I've proven my point (Islam aims to convert by any means possible)

[synergy777]

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: Why don't you read the article, you too Synergy, before commenting. I've proven my point (Islam aims to convert by any means possible)

i have experienced firsthand, the policies of uk based islamic radicals at university, where they tried to convert hindu/sikh girls to muslims. there were huge fights within the asian communities.

however i also have good muslim friends who do not share these extreme islamic thoughts.

put it this way, the klu klux klan, the british national paty and the nazis were all christian. they all use chritianity as validation for their beliefs.

does this mean that all christians are racist, no it doesn't. does it mean that african or asian christians are supporters of these fine political parties, no it doesn't, lol.

the complete lack of logic, deductive reasoning displayed by some people, beggars belief, its even worse than my spelling, lol.

[eternal_spirit]

nazis were all christian
Hilter was born Christian but didn't practice it, he was an apostate, same as Crowley.

Thought they where pagans who where into the occult. Or the orignal Aryan race came from India hence the swastika (sure you've heard all the theories about the Nazis, I've heard them at least 100 times)

Hilter called Christianity a Jewish joke played by the Jews on the gentiles with the mythical Jesus character. He wanted to replace bibles in school with his own book mein kamph.

I'll just add but wanna stay on topic (Islam) there's prob 10,000 threads about Nazis on here.

[raven200]

i have experienced firsthand, the policies of uk based islamic radicals at university, where they tried to convert hindu/sikh girls to muslims. there were huge fights within the asian communities.

however i also have good muslim friends who do not share these extreme islamic thoughts.

put it this way, the klu klux klan, the british national paty and the nazis were all christian. they all use chritianity as validation for their beliefs.

does this mean that all christians are racist, no it doesn't. does it mean that african or asian christians are supporters of these fine political parties, no it doesn't, lol.

the complete lack of logic, deductive reasoning displayed by some people, beggars belief, its even worse than my spelling, lol.

Here here :D

[synergy777]

alot of nazis were christian, they had connections to the papacy/vatican/jesuit order, hence the teaming up with benitio mussolini (italy) and general franco (spain).

as for his aryan obession, he didn't understand it. aryan means noble, it means one who follows a noble path, a dharmic path, one who wants a better, compassionate life for himself and everyone in society. thus its not a racial thing, but a philosophical way of life. it did originate from india eg the vedic culture, texts, yoga/kundalini etc.

even max muller apologised to the vedic scholars in india, about the misintrepretation and hijacking of aryan culture by european aryan obessesed intellectuals.

the crazy thing was that hitler inflicted genocide on the romany/gypsies, and they are actually from india/aryan homeland.

even crazier than that, was the fact that some indian scholars, actually supported hitler, they thought hitler was an aryan saviour/messiah, they thought hitler was the tenth incarnation of vishnu, they thought he was kalki of the kaliyuga.

imho it is kalki who is also the end time messiah archetype of the book of revelations, the leader who will fight and defeat the nwo, unite humanity in peace etc. thus the opposite of the evil hitler.

actually did you watch hitler, the rise of evil on channel 4. hitler is a fascinating person, very driven, etc.

[adbasque]

Just want to make one thing very clear here, people keep repeating it but I don't know if it has been clarified.

Islam does not allow circumsision of girls in any form, it never has done. In African countries some tribes do it but it's nothing to do with Islam.

All I can say to people is to look into advantages of male circumstision in medical journals and you will be surprised.

Also it is'nt mutilation of the body, would you say ear piercing or piercing of any form is also mutilation of the body?

The truth is

These people want
Everybody to dress like them
Everybody else to drop their culture
Everybody else to eat what they eat
Everybody to do things they do

They speak about Islam not being tolerant, the reality it's them that are intolerant, they want the whole world to follow their footsteps, they can't stand something different than them.

It's been proven by western scientists that circumcision has great advantages, the conflicting reports, are made by the same people who bash Islam, the same people who hate religion, the same people who are doing their best to iradicate religion from the face of the earth so they can have full control of people's mind.

Islam is growing amongst non Muslim born population it has nothing whatspever to do with birth rate in a Muslim countries.

Islam is growing in the west check statistics, and people should stop the bs
These are facts, there's one or two websites that are completely changing figures (we know why) :rolleyes:

Don't waste your time proving to these people, it's an absolute waste of time, they have one thing in mind, it's not to seach for truth, but they only goal is to tarnish, to lie, to twist as much as they can.

There's nothing new, there always be people like this no matter what you put in front of them as evidence or arguments, I know that for over 20 years now.

[adbasque]

You'll note that it's been pointed out several times to people in this thread that they're quoting from texts which the Quran differs with. They carry on copy n pasting crap though - nothing you say will change their minds or make them listen. Good effort tho ^^

It's when you read some dumb comments you realise that people haven't got a clue and they go ahead and make fools of themselves.

For instance Koran is corruped it has been corruped by Mohamed himself.

Let's look at this logic:
For something to be corrupt it has to be good first, and then get corrupt, second, who brought Islam to the world? Mohamed so how do they know he corrupted it when there was no Islam before him?

You hear, 5 women, 6 women for a man all sorts of nonsense
Polygamy as they like to call it, it's not just in Islam, many other religion adhere to it, no they are blind to them.

At least Islam allows it with a set of conditions, unless the wife agrees to it, otherwise he can't have another woman and it has to have a good reason.

You see the bigotry?

To corrup someone or something it has to be relatively good and then becomes corrupt, which implies that Islam was good, and then Mohamed came along and corrupted the Quoran, the same Quoran he the first human being to receive it.

Wow what a deduction what a joke

[adbasque]

As soon as a Christian does something bad, either he/she is not a practicing Christian, or simply a bad person, it's not Christianity, but if someone's name is Mohamed he automatically Muslim if he does something bad, Islam takes the crap, even if the person is not Muslim, even if he is an atheist, because of his name the whole of the Muslim population takes the c*** for it.

Hypocrisy
Hitler was an extremist Christian, and his masters too, he was half Jewish half Christian, but he presented himself as a Christian full stop.

Do we blame the whole of Christianity because of him>? No because he doesn't represent every Christian, he is only responsible for himself.

But if Hamza preaches hatred, oh yes all Muslims are like that, no questions asked.

[eternal_spirit]

More lies you'll not fool us all.

[element]

Hitler was an extremist Christian, and his masters too, he was half Jewish half Christian, but he presented himself as a Christian full stop.
Where's your evidence for this?
ES is correct, Hitler disliked Christianity. He only used the Catholics to keep them happy and form a strategic union with Italy. He also changed bible prayers and put his own name in it. There's more to find for those things then that he was an extremist Christian.

[eternal_spirit]

Okay now let's have a look at the Koran and see who's telling the truth (it's not the Muslims on here)

Muslim hatred of others is anti-Western and is part of their religion. For proof, read the passages of the Koran below.



Qur'an:9:88 "The Messenger and those who believe with him, strive hard and fight with their wealth and lives in Allah's Cause."

Qur'an:9:5 "Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."

Qur'an:9:112 "The Believers fight in Allah's Cause, they slay and are slain, kill and are killed."

Qur'an:9:29 "Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission."

Ishaq:325 "Muslims, fight in Allah's Cause. Stand firm and you will prosper. Help the Prophet, obey him, give him your allegiance, and your religion will be victorious."

Qur'an:8:39 "Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah."

Qur'an:8:39 "So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world)."

Ishaq:324 "He said, 'Fight them so that there is no more rebellion, and religion, all of it, is for Allah only. Allah must have no rivals.'"

Qur'an:9:14 "Fight them and Allah will punish them by your hands, lay them low, and cover them with shame. He will help you over them."

Ishaq:300 "I am fighting in Allah's service. This is piety and a good deed. In Allah's war I do not fear as others should. For this fighting is righteous, true, and good."

Ishaq:587 "Our onslaught will not be a weak faltering affair. We shall fight as long as we live. We will fight until you turn to Islam, humbly seeking refuge. We will fight not caring whom we meet. We will fight whether we destroy ancient holdings or newly gotten gains. We have mutilated every opponent. We have driven them violently before us at the command of Allah and Islam. We will fight until our religion is established. And we will plunder them, for they must suffer disgrace."

Qur'an:8:65 "O Prophet, urge the faithful to fight. If there are twenty among you with determination they will vanquish two hundred; if there are a hundred then they will slaughter a thousand unbelievers, for the infidels are a people devoid of understanding."

Ishaq:326 "Prophet exhort the believers to fight. If there are twenty good fighters they will defeat two hundred for they are a senseless people. They do not fight with good intentions nor for truth."

Bukhari:V4B52N63 "A man whose face was covered with an iron mask came to the Prophet and said, 'Allah's Apostle! Shall I fight or embrace Islam first?' The Prophet said, 'Embrace Islam first and then fight.' So he embraced Islam, and was martyred. Allah's Apostle said, 'A Little work, but a great reward.'"

Bukhari:V4B53N386 "Our Prophet, the Messenger of our Lord, ordered us to fight you till you worship Allah alone or pay us the Jizyah tribute tax in submission. Our Prophet has informed us that our Lord says: 'Whoever amongst us is killed as a martyr shall go to Paradise to lead such a luxurious life as he has never seen, and whoever survives shall become your master.'"

Muslim:C34B20N4668 "The Messenger said: 'Anybody who equips a warrior going to fight in the Way of Allah is like one who actually fights. And anybody who looks after his family in his absence is also like one who actually fights."

Qur'an:9:38 "Believers, what is the matter with you, that when you are asked to go forth and fight in Allah's Cause you cling to the earth? Do you prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? Unless you go forth, He will afflict and punish you with a painful doom, and put others in your place."

Qur'an:9:123 "Fight the unbelievers around you, and let them find harshness in you."

Qur'an:8:72 "Those who accepted Islam and left their homes to fight in Allah's Cause with their possessions and persons, and those who gave (them) asylum, aid, and shelter, those who harbored them - these are allies of one another. You are not responsible for protecting those who embraced Islam but did not leave their homes [to fight] until they do so." [Another translation reads:] "You are only called to protect Muslims who fight."

Muslim:C9B1N31 "I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify to the fact that there is no god but Allah, and believe in me (that) I am the Messenger and in all that I have brought."

Bukhari:V9B84N59 "Whoever says this will save his property and life from me.'"

Qur'an:8:73 "The unbelieving infidels are allies. Unless you (Muslims) aid each other (fighting as one united block to make Allah's religion victorious), there will be confusion and mischief. Those who accepted Islam, left their homes to fight in Allah's Cause (al-Jihad), as well as those who give them asylum, shelter, and aid - these are (all) Believers: for them is pardon and bountiful provision (in Paradise)."

Tabari IX:69 "Arabs are the most noble people in lineage, the most prominent, and the best in deeds. We were the first to respond to the call of the Prophet. We are Allah's helpers and the viziers of His Messenger. We fight people until they believe in Allah. He who believes in Allah and His Messenger has protected his life and possessions from us. As for one who disbelieves, we will fight him forever in the Cause of Allah. Killing him is a small matter to us."

Qur'an:48:16 "Say (Muhammad) to the wandering desert Arabs who lagged behind: 'You shall be invited to fight against a people given to war with mighty prowess. You shall fight them until they surrender and submit. If you obey, Allah will grant you a reward, but if you turn back, as you did before, He will punish you with a grievous torture."

Qur'an:48:22 "If the unbelieving infidels fight against you, they will retreat. (Such has been) the practice (approved) of Allah in the past: no change will you find in the ways of Allah."

Qur'an:47:4 "When you clash with the unbelieving Infidels in battle (fighting Jihad in Allah's Cause), smite their necks until you overpower them, killing and wounding many of them. At length, when you have thoroughly subdued them, bind them firmly, making (them) captives. Thereafter either generosity or ransom (them based upon what benefits Islam) until the war lays down its burdens. Thus are you commanded by Allah to continue carrying out Jihad against the unbelieving infidels until they submit to Islam."

Qur'an:47:31 "And We shall try you until We know those among you who are the fighters."

Tabari VI:138 "Those present at the oath of Aqabah had sworn an allegiance to Muhammad. It was a pledge of war against all men. Allah had permitted fighting."

Tabari VI:139 "Allah had given his Messenger permission to fight by revealing the verse 'And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is all for Allah.'"

Qur'an:9:19 "Do you make the giving of drink to pilgrims, or the maintenance of the Mosque, equal to those who fight in the Cause of Allah? They are not comparable in the sight of Allah. Those who believe, and left their homes, striving with might, fighting in Allah's Cause with their goods and their lives, have the highest rank in the sight of Allah."

Ishaq:550 "The Muslims met them with their swords. They cut through many arms and skulls. Only confused cries and groans could be heard over our battle roars and snarling."

Qur'an:5:94 "Believers, Allah will make a test for you in the form of a little game in which you reach out for your lances. Any who fails this test will have a grievous punishment."

Ishaq:578 "Crushing the heads of the infidels and splitting their skulls with sharp swords, we continually thrust and cut at the enemy. Blood gushed from their deep wounds as the battle wore them down. We conquered bearing the Prophet's fluttering war banner. Our cavalry was submerged in rising dust, and our spears quivered, but by us the Prophet gained victory."

Tabari IX:22 "The Prophet continued to besiege the town, fighting them bitterly."

Tabari IX:25 "By Allah, I did not come to fight for nothing. I wanted a victory over Ta'if so that I might obtain a slave girl from them and make her pregnant."

Tabari IX:82 "The Messenger sent Khalid with an army of 400 to Harith [a South Arabian tribe] and ordered him to invite them to Islam for three days before he fought them. If they were to respond and submit, he was to teach them the Book of Allah, the Sunnah of His Prophet, and the requirements of Islam. If they should decline, then he was to fight them."

Tabari IX:88 "Abdallah Azdi came to the Messenger, embraced Islam, and became a good Muslim. Allah's Apostle invested Azdi with the authority over those who had surrendered and ordered him to fight the infidels from the tribes of Yemen. Azdi left with an army by the Messenger's command. The Muslims besieged them for a month. Then they withdrew, setting a trap. When the Yemenites went in pursuit, Azdi was able to inflict a heavy loss on them."

Ishaq:530 "Get out of his way, you infidel unbelievers. Every good thing goes with the Apostle. Lord, I believe in his word. We will fight you about its interpretations as we have fought you about its revelation with strokes that will remove heads from shoulders and make enemies of friends."

Muslim:C9B1N29 "Command For Fighting Against People So Long As They Do Not Profess That There Is No Ilah (God) But Allah And Muhammad Is His Messenger: When the Messenger breathed his last and Bakr was appointed Caliph, many Arabs chose to become apostates [rejected Islam]. Abu Bakr said: 'I will definitely fight against anyone who stops paying the Zakat tax, for it is an obligation. I will fight against them even to secure the cord used for hobbling the feet of a camel which they used to pay if they withhold it now.' Allah had justified fighting against those who refused to pay Zakat."

Muslim:C9B1N33 "The Prophet said: 'I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and they establish prostration prayer, and pay Zakat. If they do it, their blood and property are protected.'"

Muslim:C10B1N176 "Muhammad (may peace be upon him) sent us in a raiding party. We raided Huraqat in the morning. I caught hold of a man and he said: 'There is no god but Allah,' but I attacked him with a spear anyway. It once occurred to me that I should ask the Apostle about this. The Messenger said: 'Did he profess "There is no god but Allah," and even then you killed him?' I said: 'He made a profession out of the fear of the weapon I was threatening him with.' The Prophet said: 'Did you tear out his heart in order to find out whether it had professed truly or not?'"

Muslim:C20B1N4597 "The Prophet said at the conquest of Mecca: 'There is no migration now, but only Jihad, fighting for the Cause of Islam. When you are asked to set out on a Jihad expedition, you should readily do so.'"

Muslim:C28B20N4628 "Allah has undertaken to provide for one who leaves his home to fight for His Cause and to affirm the truth of His word; Allah will either admit him to Paradise or will bring him back home with his reward and booty."

Muslim:C28B20N4629 "The Messenger said: 'One who is wounded in the Way of Allah - and Allah knows best who is wounded in His Way - will appear on the Day of Judgment with his wound still bleeding. The color (of its discharge) will be blood, (but) its smell will be musk.'"

Muslim:C34B20N4652-3 "The Merit Of Jihad And Of Keeping Vigilance Over The Enemy: A man came to the Holy Prophet and said: 'Who is the best of men?' He replied: 'A man who fights staking his life and spending his wealth in Allah's Cause.'"

Muslim:C42B20N4684 "A desert Arab came to the Prophet and said: 'Messenger, one man fights for the spoils of war; another fights that he may be remembered, and one fights that he may see his (high) position (achieved as a result of his valor in fighting). Which of these is fighting in the Cause of Allah?' The Messenger of Allah said: 'Who fights so that the word of Allah is exalted is fighting in the Way of Allah.'"

Muslim:C53B20N4717 "The Prophet said: 'This religion will continue to exist, and a group of people from the Muslims will continue to fight for its protection until the Hour is established.'"

Bukhari:V5B59N288 "I witnessed a scene that was dearer to me than anything I had ever seen. Aswad came to the Prophet while Muhammad was urging the Muslims to fight the pagans. He said, 'We shall fight on your right and on your left and in front of you and behind you.' I saw the face of the Prophet getting bright with happiness, for that saying delighted him."

Bukhari:V5B59N290 "The believers who did not join the Ghazwa [Islamic raid or invasion] and those who fought are not equal in reward."

Qur'an:2:193 "Fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief) and religion is only for Allah. But if they cease/desist, let there be no hostility except against infidel disbelievers."

Qur'an:2:217 "They question you concerning fighting in the sacred month. Say: 'Fighting therein is a grave (matter); but to prevent access to Allah, to deny Him, to prevent access to the Sacred Mosque, to expel its members, and polytheism are worse than slaughter. Nor will they cease fighting you until they make you renegades from your religion. If any of you turn back and die in unbelief, your works will be lost and you will go to Hell. Surely those who believe and leave their homes to fight in Allah's Cause have the hope of Allah's mercy."

Qur'an:2:244 "Fight in Allah's Cause, and know that Allah hears and knows all."

Qur'an:2:246 "He said: 'Would you refrain from fighting if fighting were prescribed for you?' They said: 'How could we refuse to fight in Allah's Cause?'"

Ishaq:280 "The Apostle prepared for war in pursuance of Allah's command to fight his enemies and to fight the infidels who Allah commanded him to fight."

Qur'an:61:2 "O Muslims, why say one thing and do another? Grievously odious and hateful is it in the sight of Allah that you say that which you do not. Truly Allah loves those who fight in His Cause in a battle array, as if they were a solid cemented structure."

Bukhari:V4B52N61 "Allah's Apostle! We were absent from the first battle you fought against the pagans. If Allah gives us a chance to do battle, no doubt, He will see how bravely we fight."

Ishaq:398 "Ask them for their help. Thereby make the religion of Islam agreeable to them. And when you are resolved in the matter of religion concerning fighting your enemy you will have the advantage."

Qur'an:3:146 "How many prophets fought in Allah's Cause? With them (fought) myriads of godly men who were slain. They never lost heart if they met with disaster in Allah's Cause, nor did they weaken nor give in. Allah loves those who are firm and steadfast [warriors]."

Ishaq:393 "How many prophets has death in battle befallen and how many multitudes with him? They did not show weakness toward their enemies and were not humiliated when they suffered in the fight for Allah and their religion. That is steadfastness. Allah loves the steadfast."

Qur'an:3:153 "Behold! You ran off precipitately, climbing up the high hill without even casting a side glance at anyone, while the Messenger in your rear is calling you from your rear, urging you to fight. Allah gave you one distress after another by way of requital, to teach you not to grieve for the booty that had escaped you and for (the ill) that had befallen you."

Qur'an:3:154 "Say: 'Even if you had remained in your houses, those ordained to be slaughtered would have gone forth to the places where they were to slain."

Ishaq:440 "Helped by the Holy Spirit we smited Muhammad's foes. The Apostle sent a message to them with a sharp cutting sword."

Ishaq:470 "We attacked them fully armed, swords in hand, cutting through heads and skulls."

Qur'an:61:4 "Surely Allah loves those who fight in His Cause."

Qur'an:61:11 "Believers, shall I lead you to a bargain or trade that will save you from a painful torment? That you believe in Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad), and that you strive and fight in Allah's Cause with your property and your lives: That will be best for you!" Qur'an 61:12 "He will forgive you your sins, and admit you to Gardens under which rivers flow, and to beautiful mansions in Eden: that is indeed the Supreme Achievement. And another (favor) which you love: help from Allah for a speedy victory over your enemies."

Qur'an:8:5 "Your Lord ordered you out of your homes to fight for the true cause, even though some Muslims disliked it, and were averse (to fighting)."

Qur'an:24:53 "They swear their strongest oaths saying that if only you would command them. They would leave their homes (and go forth fighting in Allah's Cause). Say: 'Swear not; Obedience is (more) reasonable.'"

Qur'an:4:74 "Let those who fight in Allah's Cause sell this world's life for the hereafter. To him who fights in Allah's Cause, whether he is slain or victorious, We shall give him a reward."

Qur'an:4:75 "What reason have you that you should not fight in Allah's Cause?" [Another translation says:] "What is wrong with you that you do not fight for Allah?"

Qur'an:4:76 "Those who believe fight in the Cause of Allah."

Qur'an:4:77 "Have you not seen those to whom it was said: Withhold from fighting, perform the prayer and pay the zakat. But when orders for fighting were issued, a party of them feared men as they ought to have feared Allah. They say: 'Our Lord, why have You ordained fighting for us, why have You made war compulsory?'"

Qur'an:4:78 "Wherever you are, death will find you, even if you are in towers strong and high! So what is wrong with these people, that they fail to understand these simple words?"

Qur'an:4:84 "Then fight (Muhammad) in Allah's Cause. Incite the believers to fight with you."

Qur'an:4:94 "Believers, when you go abroad to fight wars in Allah's Cause, investigate carefully, and say not to anyone who greets you: 'You are not a believer!' Coveting the chance profits of this life (so that you may despoil him). With Allah are plenteous spoils and booty."

[adbasque]

I think this will be my last response to you, your not worth any effort. You can't answer questions, you seem to be unable to read what others write. Maybe major dyslexia with a whole lot of self obsession.

Dude your nuts :confused:

You're late mate :D everyone knows who he is lol
I wouldn't waste my breath on him and people like him, pure white racist
and another thing he hides the fact (well he thinks he hides it) that he is an extremist Christian, note through out his threads and posts, he always defends Christianity, but if you ask him he'd probably say no I am not a Christian

Anyway don't waste your time with a pure bigot.

[picha]

As soon as a Christian does something bad, either he/she is not a practicing Christian, or simply a bad person, it's not Christianity, but if someone's name is Mohamed he automatically Muslim if he does something bad, Islam takes the crap, even if the person is not Muslim, even if he is an atheist, because of his name the whole of the Muslim population takes the c*** for it.

Hypocrisy
Hitler was an extremist Christian, and his masters too, he was half Jewish half Christian, but he presented himself as a Christian full stop.

Do we blame the whole of Christianity because of him>? No because he doesn't represent every Christian, he is only responsible for himself.

But if Hamza preaches hatred, oh yes all Muslims are like that, no questions asked.
Hamza preaches hatred because it comes straight from the koran and hadiths.

[eternal_spirit]

You're late mate :D everyone knows who he is lol
I wouldn't waste my breath on him and people like him, pure white racist
and another thing he hides the fact (well he thinks he hides it) that he is an extremist Christian, note through out his threads and posts, he always defends Christianity, but if you ask him he'd probably say no I am not a Christian

Anyway don't waste your time with a pure bigot.

More lies from you. I've reported you because you use the same lies and make stuff up about me on every thread. I was born Christian but I'm an apostate, I left it behind I don't follow or practice that faith. Christians are allowed to leave that religion with no fear of death or other punishments (unlike Islam)
David Icke was also born a Christian, he belongs in the same category as myself an X practising Christian.

[islamvslizards]

i said this before and ill say it again guys.

the best reply to a fool is silence.

theres not even a single thing that these members have posted, that i havent read plenty of times already, and refuted, and seen others refutations. if they want the answers, all they need to do is search the interweb.

i gave up a long time ago wasting my time, on my islam questions thread. people arent here to find the truth of matters, or question what the mainstream media are saying, they PROPAGATE the lies! they are singing off the same hymnsheet. david icke would be so proud of them im sure.

until i meet any actually enlightened people, who are interested in listening, im out too. let them wallow in their ignorance, how does it affect us? but it harms them. blind hatred always does. no matter how "awakened" you may claim to be.

peace and love. god bless.

[eternal_spirit]

Hamza preaches hatred because it comes straight from the koran and hadiths.


http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1026979&postcount=240
The hadiths are considered divine.
Reminder of what's in the Koran. Not something Muslims want none Muslims to know.

[manxboz]

i said this before and ill say it again guys.

the best reply to a fool is silence.

theres not even a single thing that these members have posted, that i havent read plenty of times already, and refuted, and seen others refutations. if they want the answers, all they need to do is search the interweb.

i gave up a long time ago wasting my time, on my islam questions thread. people arent here to find the truth of matters, or question what the mainstream media are saying, they PROPAGATE the lies! they are singing off the same hymnsheet. david icke would be so proud of them im sure.

until i meet any actually enlightened people, who are interested in listening, im out too. let them wallow in their ignorance, how does it affect us? but it harms them. blind hatred always does. no matter how "awakened" you may claim to be.

peace and love. god bless.

I am very much here to find the Truth and would love it if a Muslim instructed me in the works of their Religion. As for everyone else, they just hate them because The Man wants us to hate them, it's all part of the plan why can't people see it?

[adbasque]

Where's your evidence for this?
ES is correct, Hitler disliked Christianity. He only used the Catholics to keep them happy and form a strategic union with Italy. He also changed bible prayers and put his own name in it. There's more to find for those things then that he was an extremist Christian.

I didn't say he was a Christian, he is not even a believer, these people don't believe in any God but theirs, perhaps Lucifer or some Satanic beliefs,


read what I said:

presented himself as a Christian full stop.

he claimed to be Christian, like George Bush claims to be a true devoted Christian, like Tony Blair and so on, but deep down they are NOT, a true believer wouldn't do the things they did.

[element]

read what I said:
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif

Hitler was an extremist Christian, and his masters too, he was half Jewish half Christian, but he presented himself as a Christian full stop.

Hitler was an extremist Christian then ''presented himself as a Christian full stop''

hmm ok...

It beggars belief though. Both of those religions claim all kind of things, but we all know that they were also a tool to convert other countries and use violence. If those two religions (plus Judaism) want to have a bright future, better start deleting the shitty parts in the 'holy' books.
It's out of time. :)

[adbasque]

More lies from you. I've reported you because you use the same lies and make stuff up about me on every thread. I was born Christian but I'm an apostate, I left it behind I don't follow or practice that faith. Christians are allowed to leave that religion with no fear of death or other punishments (unlike Islam)
David Icke was also born a Christian, he belongs in the same category as myself an X practising Christian.

You reported me to whom Obama?
How pathetic is that?
of course you would, you would like to see me leave this forum being banned, you are the one spreading hatred, I can go back to last year, you are a hateful person.

Pitiful even, I stopped talking to you a while back because I know who you are, I know exactly who you are, try and fool others, well you haven't fooled anyone, a person just arrived to this forum and picked you, does that say something to you?

Go a head report me, I won't do the same, I am not your age, grow up a bit, you're full of hatred and bigotry dude;)

A lot of people on this forum, I noticed on many threads picked you as a moron.
You want me out of this forum because I am telling you the truth in your face and you hate that, what are you afraid of? hein?

You're trying to label me, report me wow big deal, you're full of hatred and it's bad for the soul the mind and the body.

I don't hate people, I speak my mind when some bigot like you spreads lies, all you do day in day out is spread lies, do you want me to go and get your last posts?

I was talking about BNP with someone else you came in with "F**** you" you started your post with *FY* was I talking to you? did I call your name?

Who's the bigot now you or me? as usual you guys do things and twist them around and accuse others.

You don't fool me, I've known you here for a while, I can draw your psycholigical profile in 5 minutes.
Don't play this game you're still tiny.

Now go away, I told you not to ever talk to me again. ignore my existence

[adbasque]

Hamza preaches hatred because it comes straight from the koran and hadiths.

If you say it, it must be true