Cops take leaflet dealer off the street [Archive]

big_al

01-06-2009, 08:28 PM

You're having a laugh ... right?
I mean ... you can not be serious.

Did you see ANY signs - even the slightest flinch - from the leaflet distributor, that in "your world" would indicate the slightest resistance or threatening behaviour?

I mean ... seriously ... anything?

In the few seconds that we see of him as the police car pulls up...no. But believe me I've been in countless situations in my time with the cops when a suspect or individual you are speaking to has made veiled threats and I, if I was on my own, have used tact and diplomacy to contain someone, keep a lid on the situation shall we say by keeping the conversation at a steady level. At the same time I have quietly called for back up or have held the mic down on my radio so that my colleagues can hear the conversation, bearing in mind they already know where I am because a call has been logged.

However as soon as the cavalry arrives BOOM you take their legs out. Reason being is that some suspects think your vulnerable because your on your own and think they can get away with making either veiled or outright threats to your personal safety, but when they do see the cavalry arriving they try and make out that their angels and 'look - i'm doing nothing wrong officer and your colleagues picking on me'. Its a reaction suspects do when they know they have overstepped the mark and the situation that they have ultimately created by attracting attention to themselves is about to go beyond their control.

The simple fact of the matter is that if you make a threat either direct or implied to an authority figure your going find yourself with your arms up your back until such times as it can be established if you really were carrying a knife or a 9mm down the back of your trousers or if you were simply just talking a load of shit.

End of the day every police officer wants to finish their shift in one piece and go home to their family.

gilly

01-06-2009, 08:49 PM

All I can say is fascist bastards!

Ditto!

big_al

01-06-2009, 09:04 PM

dreamweaver

01-06-2009, 09:11 PM

geezer661

01-06-2009, 09:13 PM

No takers for something sensible to say?

In the style of Stewie from Family Guy you thought you just spout off without knowing the facts hmm? Just a little speculation hmm? Not much research done there hmm? Doing a little cop bashing there hmm? No real evidence or knowledge about what really happened, hmm?

God I feel starting a thread on 'whats your life experience taught you?' Yet I suspect it would be rather an empty thread.

get off this forum u facist pig oink oink

all cops r fukin cunts, There was a fight outside my house the other night involvin people with pint glasses. I phoned u facist cunts and no fucker turned up. A few hours later we had a phone call from the facist fuckers. They started havin ago at us about wastin police time and not to call 999 for sumthin like tht again.

they can all fuck off and die for all i care
ACAB

All Coppers Are Bastards

big_al

01-06-2009, 09:35 PM

And you just know that the leaflet guy was making such threats to the security man before the video starts, don't you?

You were saying something about the forum users seeing what they want to see because it helps justify their own agenda?

"Hello, Mr Kettle, I'm Mr Pot. You're very black, aren't you?"

I base my observation on having seen that sort of situation play out right in front of my eyes thousands of times. What do think the security guard was just chatting away with the guy and then, for no apparent reason, just decided to slam him to the bonnet of the car? No. Common sense clearly dictates than something more sinister was going on and like I said, it probably involved the leaflet guy making threats. Just why is he standing holding out leaflets to what appears to be an empty section of the street? Is he play acting for the approaching cops by exaggerating his stance? Course he is.

get off this forum u facist pig oink oink

all cops r fukin cunts, There was a fight outside my house the other night involvin people with pint glasses. I phoned u facist cunts and no fucker turned up. A few hours later we had a phone call from the facist fuckers. They started havin ago at us about wastin police time and not to call 999 for sumthin like tht again.

they can all fuck off and die for all i care
ACAB

All Coppers Are Bastards

Well I don't feel I have to justify myself to you about my current occupation, but it no longer involves law enforcement, so you can relax. In any case some I'm not surprised they ignored you - your knuckles clearly drag on the ground when you walk.

Ironic though isn't it? You claim you hate them yet your straight on the phone the moment you need them. That suggest to me your also as bit of a pussy otherwise, rather than talking like a big man here, you'd have rolled up your sleeves and gone out and broke up the fight yourself.

tyler

01-06-2009, 10:59 PM

exclamatio

01-06-2009, 11:19 PM

No takers for something sensible to say?

In the style of Stewie from Family Guy you thought you just spout off without knowing the facts hmm? Just a little speculation hmm? Not much research done there hmm? Doing a little cop bashing there hmm? No real evidence or knowledge about what really happened, hmm?

God I feel starting a thread on 'whats your life experience taught you?' Yet I suspect it would be rather an empty thread.

The force used was completely unreasonable, the man was already under control and if he was sturggling we was so unable to do so that I couldn't see anything remarkable yet the arm twisting continued long after he was under control

yozhik

01-06-2009, 11:23 PM

What do think the security guard was just chatting away with the guy and then, for no apparent reason, just decided to slam him to the bonnet of the car?

Yes ... yes I do.

That is certainly what the video shows.

big_al

01-06-2009, 11:29 PM

Once a cop, always a cop! Never, ever trust a policeman. They work for the scum who lord it over us. They do not work for us and they are not on our side. Remember that.
Even when they sweet talk you and act all nice it is only so that you will make life easier for them.
They are basically the enemy of all decent working people. Most crimes go unsolved so don't believe them when they say their job is to catch criminals and prevent crime. They collude with drug dealers for example.

The job of the police is to police us, to keep us enslaved for the masters.

They have sold their souls to the devil.

I have plenty of "life" experience with cops. I have seen the way they behave. I have seen young kids beaten to a pulp by them mob handed.

Have nothing to do with them. Soon they will be out on the streets hunting us down as subversives.

oh please....

The force used was completely unreasonable, the man was already under control and if he was sturggling we was so unable to do so that I couldn't see anything remarkable yet the arm twisting continued long after he was under control

Yep well like I said we don't know what happened before hand, but rest assured he wasn't just standing there. Perhaps he simply deserved it.

That's another thing that amuses me here... people say the police etc are brainwashed robots, serving the elite like the nonsense written above this post here says...yet when a police man/security guard let's human emotion like fear and anger show awww well you bastardize them.

The trouble again with some of you is you just flit between one thing and another, you dont really know what you want out of your police.

deadskinball

01-06-2009, 11:38 PM

Perhaps he simply deserved it.

then this

That's another thing that amuses me here... people say the police etc are brainwashed robots

big_al

01-06-2009, 11:53 PM

then this

Your point is?

motleyhoo

02-06-2009, 12:08 AM

The simple fact of the matter is that if you make a threat either direct or implied to an authority figure your going find yourself with your arms up your back until such times as it can be established if you really were carrying a knife or a 9mm down the back of your trousers or if you were simply just talking a load of shit.

Well I have seen what happens from the other side of the law and all to often these cops' days are filled with calls to the same old boring shit, or too many stops at the same old donut shops, and after all of the training and shooting practice and whatnot they start to itch for some real excitement. That usually manifests itself in 10 cops showing up to subdue some dude in a knit cap and shabby clothes whose only handing out leaflets, or 6 cop cars showing up and rousting some yokel out of his front seat and shaking him down because he didn't get thru a light in time and it turned red 10 milliseconds before he got under it. It actually didn't used to be like this, and the problem is getting worse over time. You can't even argue with a cop over a ticket now because there's a 90% chance he will then call for backup, and then if you still want to argue you'll find yourself with a dislocated elbow or writhing on the ground at the end of two wires. I used to respect cops, but it seems more and more of them have some kind of a God complex. That's what absolute power does to people.

.

beldazar

02-06-2009, 12:22 AM

And why was it leaked? Probably to try and deter people like ourselves from dishing out leaflets on Codex / vaccinations / chem. trails / CP etc.

Could be...Its a bit suss how there has been no mention on what kind of leaflets he is handing out and why he is 'dangerous'. If the leaflets had been advertising for child-porn actors or recruiting for suicide bombers you can rest assured the headlines would be 'massive'

so...lets hope we find out because this is so intriguing!

miracles

02-06-2009, 12:31 AM

Looks like it was a church and he was handing out his own take on thing which is fine by me and should be fine by America its freedom of speech and freedom of religion therefore there was no issue to be resolved in the first place.

Why they would call the police or the police would know to respond to something like this is extremely suspicious. The police officer should be fired and citizen jailed for assault, but what did happen to them?

When you think the amount of this stuff that gets leaked on the internet how much more does not get seen? 1000 fold?

If you want to hand out leaflets outside a church that is anti -church and anti God, (obviously the content of the flyers are of this nature) (which is against the rights of the church to practise their religion). Frankly then you deserve to be arrested for A for being a nusiance and B for being an idiot. Good bloody job officers.

he is probably a poor twisted tsarionite... I pity the fool

Mind you the cop with the buzz cut was a little excessive with the arm bending...also surely he needs to be read his rights, be arrested and given the opportunity to go with them unrestrained - but we dont know know what happend before this.

PS the "dangerous" bit has been added by the person posting the video for sensational effect,

broodstryder

02-06-2009, 01:31 AM

Could be...Its a bit suss how there has been no mention on what kind of leaflets he is handing out and why he is 'dangerous'. If the leaflets had been advertising for child-porn actors or recruiting for suicide bombers you can rest assured the headlines would be 'massive'

so...lets hope we find out because this is so intriguing!

found this in one of the links.

According to a police report written by McBride, Hart — a former Eugene officer — called police to complain that Stinnette had been aggressively approaching churchgoers with leaflets claiming their pastor was previously involved with a controversy at another church in Southern Oregon.

McBride wrote in his report that when he arrived at the church on Dec. 21, he stepped out of his patrol car and tapped his badge to cue Hart to grab Stinnette.

"This is a known signal for officers to move in and handcuff the suspect," McBride wrote.

Eugene police had arrested Stinnette, 39, the previous Sunday on similar allegations. McBride was not involved with that case. Charges filed against Stinnette in the earlier arrest also were later dismissed.

yozhik

02-06-2009, 01:57 AM

If you want to hand out leaflets outside a church that is anti -church and anti God, (obviously the content of the flyers are of this nature) (which is against the rights of the church to practise their religion). Frankly then you deserve to be arrested for A for being a nusiance and B for being an idiot. Good bloody job officers.

Not only is your logic completely flawed; it is also completely incorrect, if the information re: the flyers were about the conduct of the pastor - not about religion or anti-God.

Handing out leaflets outside a church is anti-church and anti-God?
Really?

... and you deserve to be arrested for this peaceful activity?

Yep - gotta love the logic of those peace loving, forgiving, warm Christians ... they sure know how to turn the other cheek and to follow the Lord's commandements of treating others as you would wish others to treat you.

How do you spell h-y-p-o-c-r-i-t-e-s ?

leviathanstaar

02-06-2009, 04:08 AM

Would love to record reactions to little incedents where a few cops are acting tough and 8-12 gigantic personal security personell come from nowhere to say hello, and then goodbye as we simply leave.

miracles

02-06-2009, 04:32 AM

Not only is your logic completely flawed; it is also completely incorrect, if the information re: the flyers were about the conduct of the pastor - not about religion or anti-God.

Handing out leaflets outside a church is anti-church and anti-God?
Really?

... and you deserve to be arrested for this peaceful activity?

Yep - gotta love the logic of those peace loving, forgiving, warm Christians ... they sure know how to turn the other cheek and to follow the Lord's commandements of treating others as you would wish others to treat you.

How do you spell h-y-p-o-c-r-i-t-e-s ?

Well my comments where made as an individual human being but if you want to brand me as a Christian Hypocrite because of them, there is not a lot I can do except conclude you have strange logic aswell.

I was not aware the flyers where about the pastor, this was not disclosed. So what exactly where they about since you seem to know something I dont?

What was this pastor illedegly supposed to have done. Im sick of people posting videos with one side of the story and watching all you idiots feasting on it. It's a joke since you are all moaning about unbalanced reporting in the media, your the bloody hypocrites.

PS. This fool was treated the way he was treating others, from what I can gather.

geezer661

02-06-2009, 08:40 PM

I base my observation on having seen that sort of situation play out right in front of my eyes thousands of times. What do think the security guard was just chatting away with the guy and then, for no apparent reason, just decided to slam him to the bonnet of the car? No. Common sense clearly dictates than something more sinister was going on and like I said, it probably involved the leaflet guy making threats. Just why is he standing holding out leaflets to what appears to be an empty section of the street? Is he play acting for the approaching cops by exaggerating his stance? Course he is.

Well I don't feel I have to justify myself to you about my current occupation, but it no longer involves law enforcement, so you can relax. In any case some I'm not surprised they ignored you - your knuckles clearly drag on the ground when you walk.

Ironic though isn't it? You claim you hate them yet your straight on the phone the moment you need them. That suggest to me your also as bit of a pussy otherwise, rather than talking like a big man here, you'd have rolled up your sleeves and gone out and broke up the fight yourself.

firstly i wasnt there , it was my elderly mother and secondly i wont fuckin use them again they are a fuckin waste of time. My girlfriend got attacked by a vicious dog last year. The dog was still roamin the streets by her house but they didnt turn up for 3 days. When they finally turned up it was this fuckin chav copper. He said sorry we didnt turn up there has been murders and mayhem and shit. I thought what stupid fuckwit but then again thats all they take on these days so now we know how u got the job. Just go back to fuckin murderin innocent people in london .

take it easy

02-06-2009, 10:58 PM

big_al

02-06-2009, 11:01 PM

the security guard said he was arrested last week for tampering with witnesses... i'm inclined to believe there maybe history between the security guard and the leaflet hander outer.

I don't know the whole story, so best to not jump in...

I had thought that as well. And yes best not to jump to conclusions. Nice to see at least some people here have common sense.

tom bombadil

02-06-2009, 11:04 PM

The way the security guard or whatever he was pounced when the suspect was distracted by the arrival of the police vehicle suggests to me that something has been said or occurred prior to the police arrival that we don't know about, however the security felt it warranted restraining him the moment he was distracted. Clearly the security guard was seizing an opportunity.

Perhaps the suspect made a hint that he was armed or made veiled threats.

See? Half the trouble with some of you here ...you see what your own programming has taught you see., you see what you want to see because it helps justify your own agenda.

I highlighted bits of your quotes big_al Sorry to tell you that obsevation works both ways. Unless everything that was said prior to the camera showing up was recorded, then it will be hersey in court. But you know that I am sure! So by alowing the actions of the sercurity guard to taint your judgement, you have ignored the truth. And that is that a guy on the street was in leage with the cop (taps his badge) so the attack on the leaflet guy was preplaned (through training) and therefore unwarented. You see irrispective of what might have been said by both individuals on the street, the cop, when he got out of the car, made the attacker pounce. USE YOUR EYES MATE!

In the few seconds that we see of him as the police car pulls up...no. But believe me I've been in countless situations in my time with the cops when a suspect or individual you are speaking to has made veiled threats and I, if I was on my own, have used tact and diplomacy to contain someone, keep a lid on the situation shall we say by keeping the conversation at a steady level. At the same time I have quietly called for back up or have held the mic down on my radio so that my colleagues can hear the conversation, bearing in mind they already know where I am because a call has been logged.

However as soon as the cavalry arrives BOOM you take their legs out. Reason being is that some suspects think your vulnerable because your on your own and think they can get away with making either veiled or outright threats to your personal safety, but when they do see the cavalry arriving they try and make out that their angels and 'look - i'm doing nothing wrong officer and your colleagues picking on me'. Its a reaction suspects do when they know they have overstepped the mark and the situation that they have ultimately created by attracting attention to themselves is about to go beyond their control.

The simple fact of the matter is that if you make a threat either direct or implied to an authority figure your going find yourself with your arms up your back until such times as it can be established if you really were carrying a knife or a 9mm down the back of your trousers or if you were simply just talking a load of shit.

End of the day every police officer wants to finish their shift in one piece and go home to their family.

Ha fucking HA. Where do I start. I know, the top...."I've been in countless situations in my time" So you pre-judge the situation rightly or wrongly, only if it is wrong, you dont feel a pain in your arm...HE DOES!
"keep a lid on the situation shall we say by keeping the conversation at a steady level". You clown. You have the option of walking away. Everything said is hearsay.
"or have held the mic down on my radio so that my colleagues can hear the conversation". Hearsey. I would have given you credit if you said that it was being recorded. But the point you make is that you can give info to your mates that backs up your story. How do they know that you have not been goading him?...THEY DONT, AND ACT ON YOUR INSTRUCTION. Convieniant much.

"BOOM you take their legs out. Reason being is that some suspects think your vulnerable because your on your own and think they can get away with making either veiled or outright threats to your personal safety
". Some might. You dont know? You attack without reason other than to protect your 'coller'.
"'look - i'm doing nothing wrong officer and your colleagues picking on me
". Oh! Then you must be right. HEARSEY
"overstepped the mark". You have not yet proved that they have overstepped the mark. And what mark is that then. Have they voilated your ears, you big softy? Walk away then! Remember this, you are there down to your own judgement or violation, you have an option of walking away. In the situation with the leaflet man, he could have walked away....BOOM!...No chance.
"attracting attention to themselves is about to go beyond their control
". Did you say beyond their cantrol? Just at what point do you think that his control has run out and you can step in to then 'control'? Fuck me man, you are a control freek!
"authority figure". If? Who has authority here? It has yet to be established that the sercurity guard was acting in a way that puts him above jack shit big_al, have we? An authority figure does not have rights over another outside their own heads.
"just talking a load of shit". So you go along with guilty untill proved inocent? YES! YES YOU DO!

I base my observation on having seen that sort of situation play out right in front of my eyes thousands of times. What do think the security guard was just chatting away with the guy and then, for no apparent reason, just decided to slam him to the bonnet of the car? No. Common sense clearly dictates than something more sinister was going on and like I said, it probably involved the leaflet guy making threats. Just why is he standing holding out leaflets to what appears to be an empty section of the street? Is he play acting for the approaching cops by exaggerating his stance? Course he is.

Well I don't feel I have to justify myself to you about my current occupation, but it no longer involves law enforcement, so you can relax. In any case some I'm not surprised they ignored you - your knuckles clearly drag on the ground when you walk.

Ironic though isn't it? You claim you hate them yet your straight on the phone the moment you need them. That suggest to me your also as bit of a pussy otherwise, rather than talking like a big man here, you'd have rolled up your sleeves and gone out and broke up the fight yourself.

"clearly".:) "it probably".:p"why is he standing holding out leaflets".Chortle "Is he play acting for the approaching cops by exaggerating his stance? Course he is" .

"so you can relax", thank fuck for that, cos if I saw you coming for me with your radio to your mates, I think that I would scarper for my life!
"You claim you hate them yet your straight on the phone the moment you need them", cor mate you have no idea just how lots of us normal humans think do you?

Nelly.

whitenight639

02-06-2009, 11:18 PM

Police chief gives reprimand to officer The discipline is for “poor judgment” in the arrest of a protester outside a church

By Jack Moran (jack.moran@registerguard.com)
The Register-Guard

Posted to Web: Thursday, May 28, 2009 04:10PM
Appeared in print: Friday, May 29, 2009, page A6

News: Local: Story

Eugene’s police chief will reprimand an officer for improperly enlisting a former beat partner — and current federal agent — to help arrest a man who distributed controversial leaflets to parishioners outside a church last December.
In a letter written Tuesday, interim police Chief Pete Kerns notified the man who was arrested, Mike Stinnette, of his decision to discipline patrol officer Jim McBride for his “poor judgment” on the morning of Dec. 21.
“Appropriate corrective action will be taken” against McBride, Kerns’ letter states.
Stinnette provided the document to The Register-Guard.
Police spokeswoman Melinda Kletzok said state law prohibits department officials from discussing what type of punishment McBride might face as a result of Kerns’ decision.
Stinnette — whose criminal charges stemming from the incident were later dropped — filed a complaint with the city police auditor alleging that McBride violated his free-speech rights and wrongfully called upon former Eugene officer Rob Hart to assist with the arrest.
A video camera situated inside McBride’s patrol car captured the arrest.
The footage shows Hart — a Federal Protective Service inspector who was off-duty at the time — suddenly and forcefully grab Stinnette by the wrist and bend it awkwardly while helping McBride push Stinnette onto the patrol car’s hood.
Moments before the arrest, the video shows a seemingly peaceful Stinnette standing next to Hart on a sidewalk outside the Lawrence Street Chapel.
But, according to a police report written by McBride, Hart called officers to complain that Stinnette had been aggressively approaching churchgoers with leaflets stating that their pastor was previously involved with a Southern Oregon church that made property improvements without first obtaining permits.
Eugene police arrested Stinnette, 39, the previous Sunday on similar allegations. McBride was not involved with that case. Charges filed against Stinnette in connection with that incident also were later dismissed.
McBride wrote in his report that when he arrived at the church on Dec. 21, he stepped out of his patrol car and tapped his badge to cue Hart to grab Stinnette.
“This is a known signal for officers to move in and handcuff the suspect,” McBride wrote.
Stinnette spent 12 days in jail following his arrest.
In his letter to Stinnette, Kerns said he believed that McBride had probable cause to make the arrest and therefore did not violate Stinnette’s constitutional rights.
However, Kerns also ruled that McBride used “poor judgment by enlisting the assistance of Mr. Hart,” the letter states.
Meanwhile, agents in the Department of Homeland Security’s Office of Professional Responsibility in Seattle are investigating whether Hart should be disciplined for his involvement in the arrest.
Hart works for the Federal Protective Service’s Federal Way, Wash., office.
A federal investigator interviewed Stinnette about the matter last month.
“We are aware of it, and we are looking into it,” said Charles Anderson, the resident agent-in-charge for the Seattle branch of the Office of Professional Responsibility.
Anderson declined to further discuss the matter, referring questions about the inquiry to a spokeswoman who also declined to talk about it.
Although federal officials say Hart — who was at the Eugene church to attend a service — acted as a private citizen at the time of Stinnette’s arrest, he subsequently wrote an investigative report detailing the incident on official Federal Protective Service letterhead.
In his report — which Stinnette received from his attorney along with other evidence after he was charged with a crime — Hart characterized the episode as an “agency assisted arrest.”
Hart wrote that when he grabbed Stinnette and led him to McBride’s car, “I used just enough force to maintain control of him.”
Stinnette said he is considering a lawsuit against McBride and Hart.
He also hopes that Eugene’s Civilian Review Board will review the internal investigation focusing on McBride’s actions, primarily because he firmly believes that — although Kerns disagreed — his free-speech rights were violated.
The city’s interim deputy police auditor, Elizabeth Southworth, said she expects the review panel will consider Stinnette’s request.
“I’m guessing this is a case they would be interested in,” she said.
Twice last year, the civilian board concluded that McBride used excessive force while making an arrest.
In one of those cases, former police Chief Robert Lehner ruled that McBride’s use of force did not violate department policy.
In the second matter, Lehner upheld Kerns’ recommendation to sustain an allegation that McBride went too far when he struck a handcuffed suspect who he believed was about to spit on him. Lehner suspended McBride for one week without pay.
The city police union appealed Lehner’s decision. A state arbitrator who reviewed the case ruled in March that McBride should not have been suspended, and ordered the city to repay him for lost wages.

http://www.registerguard.com/csp/cms/sites/web/news/cityregion/14496667-41/story.csp

steevo

02-06-2009, 11:22 PM

We dont know for sure that Big_Al is a cop or ever was a cop. So let's not get wound up by anything that he is APPARENTLY saying "on behalf of" the police force.

take it easy

02-06-2009, 11:28 PM

nice find whiteknight - so it all turned out ok in the end, all charges dropped and a telling off for the police officer/security guard...what drama!

whitenight639

02-06-2009, 11:30 PM

nice find whiteknight - so it all turned out ok in the end, all charges dropped and a telling off for the police officer/security guard...what drama!

yeh but he spent 12 days in jail:eek:

welcome to da forum

big_al

02-06-2009, 11:33 PM

I highlighted bits of your quotes big_al Sorry to tell you that obsevation works both ways. Unless everything that was said prior to the camera showing up was recorded, then it will be hersey in court. But you know that I am sure! So by alowing the actions of the sercurity guard to taint your judgement, you have ignored the truth. And that is that a guy on the street was in leage with the cop (taps his badge) so the attack on the leaflet guy was preplaned (through training) and therefore unwarented. You see irrispective of what might have been said by both individuals on the street, the cop, when he got out of the car, made the attacker pounce. USE YOUR EYES MATE!

Ha fucking HA. Where do I start. I know, the top...."I've been in countless situations in my time" So you pre-judge the situation rightly or wrongly, only if it is wrong, you dont feel a pain in your arm...HE DOES!
"keep a lid on the situation shall we say by keeping the conversation at a steady level". You clown. You have the option of walking away. Everything said is hearsay.
"or have held the mic down on my radio so that my colleagues can hear the conversation". Hearsey. I would have given you credit if you said that it was being recorded. But the point you make is that you can give info to your mates that backs up your story. How do they know that you have not been goading him?...THEY DONT, AND ACT ON YOUR INSTRUCTION. Convieniant much.

"BOOM you take their legs out. Reason being is that some suspects think your vulnerable because your on your own and think they can get away with making either veiled or outright threats to your personal safety
". Some might. You dont know? You attack without reason other than to protect your 'coller'.
"'look - i'm doing nothing wrong officer and your colleagues picking on me
". Oh! Then you must be right. HEARSEY
"overstepped the mark". You have not yet proved that they have overstepped the mark. And what mark is that then. Have they voilated your ears, you big softy? Walk away then! Remember this, you are there down to your own judgement or violation, you have an option of walking away. In the situation with the leaflet man, he could have walked away....BOOM!...No chance.
"attracting attention to themselves is about to go beyond their control
". Did you say beyond their cantrol? Just at what point do you think that his control has run out and you can step in to then 'control'? Fuck me man, you are a control freek!
"authority figure". If? Who has authority here? It has yet to be established that the sercurity guard was acting in a way that puts him above jack shit big_al, have we? An authority figure does not have rights over another outside their own heads.
"just talking a load of shit". So you go along with guilty untill proved inocent? YES! YES YOU DO!

"clearly".:) "it probably".:p"why is he standing holding out leaflets".Chortle "Is he play acting for the approaching cops by exaggerating his stance? Course he is" .

"so you can relax", thank fuck for that, cos if I saw you coming for me with your radio to your mates, I think that I would scarper for my life!
"You claim you hate them yet your straight on the phone the moment you need them", cor mate you have no idea just how lots of us normal humans think do you?

Nelly.

Walk away? Hmm no, I'd have a big problem with that because that means you lose face, and you cant let that happen not if your to be an effective and respected officer in the area you cover. How do you think suspect would react to that if a copper walked away hmm? They tell there mates and then everyone in the area you worked would know that all you have to do is give him some stick and he'll walk off.

So. I've just ripped apart your cowardice theory and therefore I cant be bothered with the rest of your post. Sorry Nelly.

We dont know for sure that Big_Al is a cop or ever was a cop. So let's not get wound up by anything that he is APPARENTLY saying "on behalf of" the police force.

I was, trust me.

take it easy

02-06-2009, 11:34 PM

yeh but he spent 12 days in jail:eek:

welcome to da forum

cheers m8 - maybe it was a condition imposed the last time he got arrested?

darkman

02-06-2009, 11:43 PM

And why was it leaked? Probably to try and deter people like ourselves from dishing out leaflets on Codex / vaccinations / chem. trails / CP etc.

you hit the nail there , why hand leaflets out side a church if that was the case , why have a general looking man arrest a lealflet hand out and he look like he knew what he was doing with the arm twist looks like a set up to me , scarmongering stuff now is out there on the net
be aware

steevo

02-06-2009, 11:47 PM

you hit the nail there , why hand leaflets out side a church if that was the case , why have a general looking man arrest a lealflet hand out and he look like he knew what he was doing with the arm twist looks like a set up to me , scarmongering stuff now is out there on the net
be aware

I dont HAND OUT leaflets, I just leave them where people can find them.

take it easy

02-06-2009, 11:54 PM

it probably didn't get leaked - the leaflet hander outer could have posted it, as he must of had a copy of it for his defense.

tom bombadil

03-06-2009, 12:17 AM

Walk away? Hmm no, I'd have a big problem with that because that means you lose face, and you cant let that happen not if your to be an effective and respected officer in the area you cover. How do you think suspect would react to that if a copper walked away hmm? They tell there mates and then everyone in the area you worked would know that all you have to do is give him some stick and he'll walk off.

So. I've just ripped apart your cowardice theory and therefore I cant be bothered with the rest of your post. Sorry Nelly.

You were not the thought police big_al. You didnt have to read it all cos others might. I was having a rant at such hypocrsy. You are saying (in not so many words) that you have the ability to judge a soul before hand, and get it right 100%? Impossable, which is why what you contemplate doing is wrong.

For any man to stand there and say that you dont (didnt) look at the facts and still judge a man before guilt is proved speaks volumes of the kind of soul that some (read most) cops tend to be or become.

"So. I've just ripped apart your cowardice theory and therefore I cant be bothered with the rest of your post. Sorry Nelly". Appology not accepted cos you are still a shitter! You have only shown again that you are not prepared to look at the whole picture. Rather you go in for the jaded view of the guy that "I think is doing wrong, must be doing so". So rather than wait, you jump the gun and strike. Coward. Its fight or flight, and seing as you were being paid not to 'flight' then your only course of action is fight (and all its advantages of striking first).

As for losing face. You a law neforcer mate. By asuming that the perp. is guilty before proof, you have proved again that you are in the wrong. Dont you know about right and wrong?*

*Ignore as appropriate.

Nelly.

tom bombadil

03-06-2009, 12:20 AM

Concerning police tactics. Do you know what 'kettling' is big_al?

Nelly.

tom bombadil

03-06-2009, 12:22 AM

you hit the nail there , why hand leaflets out side a church if that was the case , why have a general looking man arrest a lealflet hand out and he look like he knew what he was doing with the arm twist looks like a set up to me , scarmongering stuff now is out there on the net
be aware

The leaflets were about the minister inside.

The best place to tell the truth (supposed truth) is in front of the congregation.

Nelly.

miracles

03-06-2009, 12:31 AM

their pastor was previously involved with a Southern Oregon church that made property improvements without first obtaining permits.

Good God what a hideoulsy evil pastor - burn him at the stake.

It appears this bloke was arrested the previous week for the same thing.
What a nutter.

Still the head case who nearly broke his arm is being investigated.

miracles

03-06-2009, 12:39 AM

And why was it leaked? Probably to try and deter people like ourselves from dishing out leaflets on Codex / vaccinations / chem. trails / CP etc.

I take my hat of to you for doing this, very ballsy - good on you. Much respect, love is a verb- an action program. I wasn't aware many of you where active like this - big ups

I cant see you being arrested for this, I certainly hope not any way. If it was an arrestable offense, then this site would be illegal and Icke would be in Jail.

tom bombadil

03-06-2009, 12:40 AM

Good God what a hideoulsy evil pastor - burn him at the stake.

:D

It appears this bloke was arrested the previous week for the same thing.
What a nutter.

We still dont know the full story though. He might have grounds for pertition. The story is about the violent git. :eek:

Still the head case who nearly broke his arm is being investigated.

YAY! :cool:

Nelly.

smoke n mirrors

03-06-2009, 12:43 AM

No takers for something sensible to say?

God I feel starting a thread on 'whats your life experience taught you?' Yet I suspect it would be rather an empty thread.

I fear you could be right, I doubt you could build much of a tread based on your experience. :rolleyes: Thats the first sensible thing you have said! :eek:

Toot toot me old fruit,

dreamweaver

03-06-2009, 12:48 AM

I fear you could be right, I doubt you could build much of a tread based on your experience. :rolleyes: Thats the first sensible thing you have said! :eek:

Toot toot me old fruit,

http://msp273.photobucket.com/albums/jj223/DannyLaggy/borat.jpg

alzee

03-06-2009, 12:58 AM

you lot beware, lil_al is fond of dishing out verbal humiliation!!!!1

tremble at his words :eek:

deem

03-06-2009, 01:18 AM

That copper was shit. He turns up just in time to see a leaflet distributer getting attacked by some arsehole twice his size, then takes away the one he just witnessed being violated. Where do they get this people? No wonder his boss tore him a new butt.

smoke n mirrors

03-06-2009, 01:51 AM

you lot beware, lil_al is fond of dishing out verbal humiliation!!!!1

tremble at his words :eek:

I don't think so, Bi-gal is full of it!

If he was ever a PC then we are very fortunate that he is no longer! His attitude and total arrogance would how ever qualify him for the roll.

Now the evidence is in the thread that the guy wasn't guilty of a crime.

Bi-gal, didn't even acknowledge this fact and his whole contribution to this thread was based on lies and assumption. He also should have apologised to the posters he accused of being wrong.

He also has made no comment about the fact that the offending office was merely disciplined. The guy should be out of a job! He took part in an assault in uniform while abusing his position of trust!

This is why the police in the UK and US have lost all respect from the public. The general public are fully aware of what a police officer represents. The police cant handle the fact that they are no longer regarded as valued members of society.

Since operation country man, the cops have been on the decline as far as integrity goes. We have nothing but corruption in our politicians. Its there for no great stretch of the imagination that it filters down to the police. After all every police officer knows their masters voice.

If the police want to redeem their standing within the community, they should remember their oath, and start actually keeping the peace! When an officer is out of line they should stop closing rank and let the offender stand as a man. We all know that this isn't going to happen, because the service is institutionalised and run by the cp brigade.

At least we know one bad apple is no longer in the barrel. :)

Toot toots

.

miracles

03-06-2009, 08:05 AM

you lot beware, lil_al is fond of dishing out verbal humiliation!!!!1

tremble at his words :eek:

So is li'l alzee:eek: Beware you lot.

yozhik

03-06-2009, 10:29 AM

PS. This fool was treated the way he was treating others, from what I can gather.

What have you been smoking?
What colour is the sun in your world?

Where has there been any inference that the pamphlet dealer had pushed anyones face into the front of a car, bent their arm backwards, or twisted their wrist close to snapping point?

For you to claim that he was treated, as he had treated others, would mean he had committed these violent ... VIOLENT and PHYSICAL acts, upon others.

Handing out pamphlets that you may or may not agree with ... versus ... a physical assault.

Hmmmm ... doesn't sound the "same treatment" to me.

Maybe, instead of condoning physical violence, the church or church goers should have simply given him handouts rebutting his assertion or promoting their own.

Now THAT would have been the more Christian and Godly thing to do ...

alzee

03-06-2009, 10:44 AM

So is li'l alzee:eek: Beware you lot.

You're so desparate to get a dig in that you miss the point completely. You fail.

What have you been smoking?
What colour is the sun in your world?

Where has there been any inference that the pamphlet dealer had pushed anyones face into the front of a car, bent their arm backwards, or twisted their wrist close to snapping point?

For you to claim that he was treated, as he had treated others, would mean he had committed these violent ... VIOLENT and PHYSICAL acts, upon others.

Handing out pamphlets that you may or may not agree with ... versus ... a physical assault.

Hmmmm ... doesn't sound the "same treatment" to me.

Maybe, instead of condoning physical violence, the church or church goers should have simply given him handouts rebutting his assertion or promoting their own.

Now THAT would have been the more Christian and Godly thing to do ...

Therein lies miracles' problem - he claims to be a christian, a faith which we all know promotes love, harmony etc etc, yet when it comes to dishing out any of the love, compassion or understanding he has no idea how to do it.

Its more than a little sad.

gilly

03-06-2009, 01:18 PM

Please can we stop the personal digs now!

big_al

03-06-2009, 01:19 PM

I don't think so, Bi-gal is full of it!

If he was ever a PC then we are very fortunate that he is no longer! His attitude and total arrogance would how ever qualify him for the roll.

Now the evidence is in the thread that the guy wasn't guilty of a crime.

Bi-gal, didn't even acknowledge this fact and his whole contribution to this thread was based on lies and assumption. He also should have apologised to the posters he accused of being wrong.

He also has made no comment about the fact that the offending office was merely disciplined. The guy should be out of a job! He took part in an assault in uniform while abusing his position of trust!

This is why the police in the UK and US have lost all respect from the public. The general public are fully aware of what a police officer represents. The police cant handle the fact that they are no longer regarded as valued members of society.

Since operation country man, the cops have been on the decline as far as integrity goes. We have nothing but corruption in our politicians. Its there for no great stretch of the imagination that it filters down to the police. After all every police officer knows their masters voice.

If the police want to redeem their standing within the community, they should remember their oath, and start actually keeping the peace! When an officer is out of line they should stop closing rank and let the offender stand as a man. We all know that this isn't going to happen, because the service is institutionalised and run by the cp brigade.

At least we know one bad apple is no longer in the barrel. :)

Toot toots

.

Not so. All I ever said was that you have to appreciate the full facts but also have an appreciation of how the real world works. Its not an ideal world by any means but it has to be said many of you have beliefs that are idealistic and you do mistake Police Officers for Social Workers.

I said this in another thread, before it was removed and I evidenced it...you really dont know what police brutality is.

thirdwave

03-06-2009, 01:31 PM

Don't know enough about it to really say..

there is no use jumping on the police every time they use force on someone... as lets not forget there are genuine criminals out there...

for all we know this guy could have been a child abuser or something....

maybe it was Police brutality as we are all aware allot of it goes on at the moment.. but it could also be them doing a fine job... and they could have evidence this guy is a criminal.

miracles

03-06-2009, 03:13 PM

You're so desparate to get a dig in that you miss the point completely. You fail.

Therein lies miracles' problem - he claims to be a christian, a faith which we all know promotes love, harmony etc etc, yet when it comes to dishing out any of the love, compassion or understanding he has no idea how to do it.

Its more than a little sad.

To be fair, Im only dishing out what you are dishing out, also to be fair, you cant pull out the "Christian Hypocrite card" when ever you don't like getting called for something...

In actual fact you have done nothing but pour scorn and filth my way from day one. Whats your freaken beef with me MR?????????????????

Why dont you try showing some Christian compassion and forgiveness since you seem to know so much about it and expect so much from it.

miracles

03-06-2009, 03:20 PM

What have you been smoking?
What colour is the sun in your world?

Where has there been any inference that the pamphlet dealer had pushed anyones face into the front of a car, bent their arm backwards, or twisted their wrist close to snapping point?

For you to claim that he was treated, as he had treated others, would mean he had committed these violent ... VIOLENT and PHYSICAL acts, upon others.

Handing out pamphlets that you may or may not agree with ... versus ... a physical assault.

Hmmmm ... doesn't sound the "same treatment" to me.

Maybe, instead of condoning physical violence, the church or church goers should have simply given him handouts rebutting his assertion or promoting their own.

Now THAT would have been the more Christian and Godly thing to do ...

Excuse me, once again with the Christian bashing - He was arrested by the Police twice whilst libeling a pastor (oustide his church) for evidently failing to report some building renovations to the Powers That be that you all love so much. You'd be writing songs about anyone else who did this.

I have not once condoned the meat head that nearly broke his arm, but the police did this, not Christians. What sun shines in your world? Keep it real. Christians don't have to take or put up with shit from anyone.

This guy was a total bloody idiot and so where the cops

thirdwave

03-06-2009, 03:27 PM

If you want to hand out leaflets outside a church that is anti -church and anti God, (obviously the content of the flyers are of this nature) (which is against the rights of the church to practise their religion). Frankly then you deserve to be arrested for A for being a nusiance and B for being an idiot. Good bloody job officers.

Errr well not at all...

Like I say, we know very little about this guy and the leaflets he was handing out could have been harmless though he may have been up to no good anyway.... which it looked like there was an under cover policeman there, so hardly the way to approach a troublesome leaflet man!?..

But anyone has the right to stand outside of a church passing out any leaflets they like ... providing they are not preventing others from doing what they want to be doing... because its a free world... one can take a leaflet and throw it away or read it..

Your comment sounded very fascist to me.... and if someone passing leaflets out is seen as a nuisance to you, there you need to touch up your faith.

miracles

03-06-2009, 03:30 PM

Errr well not at all...

Like I say, we know very little about this guy and the leaflets he was handing out could have been harmless though he may have been up to no good anyway.... which it looked like there was an under cover policeman there, so hardly the way to approach a troublesome leaflet man!?..

But anyone has the right to stand outside of a church passing out any leaflets they like ... providing they are not preventing others from doing what they want to be doing... because its a free world... one can take a leaflet and throw it away or read it..

Your comment sounded very fascist to me.... and if someone passing leaflets out is seen as a nuisance to you, there you need to touch up your faith.

Whatever third wave, you'd call me a facist if I was meditating under a bloody balboa tree for 28 years without speaking a word.

thirdwave

03-06-2009, 03:33 PM

Whatever third wave, you'd call me a facist if I was meditating under a bloody balboa tree for 28 years without speaking a word.

eerrr well ok have your say, but I was not calling you a fascist for that... I was calling you one for your comments here....

miracles

03-06-2009, 03:38 PM

eerrr well ok have your say, but I was not calling you a fascist for that... I was calling you one for your comments here....

I was hoping you where going to say something witty like "no I wouldnt I'd call it a bloody good start" or something like that and for that I would have handed you a get out of the rant room free card as well as 10 bonus points.

I admit, the cop was a thug on a power trip, but we know this guy was a nuisance this was the second time he was arrested, and I believe he was Libelling the pastor which is againts the human rights of the pastor regardless of his faith..which is the only reason he was arested TWICE. The police can not, and do not arrest people for nothing. YET. We also know both cops are in the crap and are facing diciplinary action. The fact that they will probably get a slap on the hand with a wet bus ticket is not the pastors fault or Christianity or Gods fault.

I aslo agree that anyone can hand out leaflets where and when ever they want. But evidently not with libelous or slanderous material, which I firmly maintain is why he was arrested. Also people can be arrested for disturbing the peace and harassing the general public. I would dearly love to get a copy of one of his flyers and read all about it, Im sure we all would.

Also the fact that we only know part of the story as you so rightly point out, is the only reason I bothered to comment on this thread in the first place

manxboz

03-06-2009, 03:45 PM

This is shocking, i would hate that to happen to me.

alzee

03-06-2009, 04:19 PM

To be fair, Im only dishing out what you are dishing out, also to be fair, you cant pull out the "Christian Hypocrite card" when ever you don't like getting called for something...

In actual fact you have done nothing but pour scorn and filth my way from day one. Whats your freaken beef with me MR?????????????????

Why dont you try showing some Christian compassion and forgiveness since you seem to know so much about it and expect so much from it.

I call it as I see it.

ps: I'm not a christian.

yozhik

03-06-2009, 05:30 PM

Excuse me, once again with the Christian bashing - He was arrested by the Police twice whilst libeling a pastor (oustide his church) for evidently failing to report some building renovations to the Powers That be that you all love so much. You'd be writing songs about anyone else who did this.

I have not once condoned the meat head that nearly broke his arm, but the police did this, not Christians. What sun shines in your world? Keep it real. Christians don't have to take or put up with shit from anyone.

This guy was a total bloody idiot and so where the cops

Then can you please explain this?

PS. This fool was treated the way he was treating others, from what I can gather.

thirdwave

03-06-2009, 06:42 PM

I admit, the cop was a thug on a power trip, but we know this guy was a nuisance this was the second time he was arrested, and I believe he was Libelling the pastor which is againts the human rights of the pastor regardless of his faith..which is the only reason he was arested TWICE. The police can not, and do not arrest people for nothing. YET.

Yes they do...

if the guy was harrassing someone then fair enough... if he was just handing out leaflets like in the vid then no one has any right to stop him...

In the old days maybe religious institutions got away with useing force to uphold their religion but today at least in the Western world people do not submit to it like that.. and people are free to speak out against these belief systems... just as the people have always been free to judge by them and speak out for them...

We also know both cops are in the crap and are facing diciplinary action. The fact that they will probably get a slap on the hand with a wet bus ticket is not the pastors fault or Christianity or Gods fault.

Well now I know a little more about it, it seems the guy did not deserve to be man handled at all... and the nature of the arrest with very oppressive.

I aslo agree that anyone can hand out leaflets where and when ever they want. But evidently not with libelous or slanderous material, which I firmly maintain is why he was arrested.

none of us know what material he was handing out.. but you are still talking shit IMO... as anyone can accuse something of being libellous... So unless it is advertising that is promting a movment which victimises people... such as child of animal abuse... so forth.. then there is nothing wrong with it.. people are free to read the text..or throw it away... it is not your buisness or anyone elses to determin what people can or cant read... or where they can and cant read it.

Also people can be arrested for disturbing the peace and harassing the general public. I would dearly love to get a copy of one of his flyers and read all about it, Im sure we all would.

if people get upset by leaflets then they should not read them... or they should create leaflets they like... they are in no position to prevent others from doing so... unless like I say, it is promoting movements which hurt people and brake the law....

Also the fact that we only know part of the story as you so rightly point out, is the only reason I bothered to comment on this thread in the first place

Very true, and I was talking about the comments you made on what you understood so far...

miracles

04-06-2009, 04:51 AM

Yes they do...

if the guy was harrassing someone then fair enough... if he was just handing out leaflets like in the vid then no one has any right to stop him...

In the old days maybe religious institutions got away with useing force to uphold their religion but today at least in the Western world people do not submit to it like that.. and people are free to speak out against these belief systems... just as the people have always been free to judge by them and speak out for them...

Well now I know a little more about it, it seems the guy did not deserve to be man handled at all... and the nature of the arrest with very oppressive.

none of us know what material he was handing out.. but you are still talking shit IMO... as anyone can accuse something of being libellous... So unless it is advertising that is promting a movment which victimises people... such as child of animal abuse... so forth.. then there is nothing wrong with it.. people are free to read the text..or throw it away... it is not your buisness or anyone elses to determin what people can or cant read... or where they can and cant read it.

if people get upset by leaflets then they should not read them... or they should create leaflets they like... they are in no position to prevent others from doing so... unless like I say, it is promoting movements which hurt people and brake the law....

Very true, and I was talking about the comments you made on what you understood so far...

In that case its not this guys business to hand out leaflets opposing another human beings actions. He should mind his own business. ( I dont agree with this statement any more than I agree with yours regarding that statement, to clarify)

miracles

04-06-2009, 04:55 AM

I call it as I see it.

ps: I'm not a christian.

I know you arent, but you demand and expect that a Christian show you love and forgiveness, when you do not want love and forgiveness from them. Why?

You dont show them any and in fact you show the opposite when they have done nothing wrong.

Everyone here call it as they see it, it goes without saying.

motleyhoo

04-06-2009, 04:56 AM

In that case its not this guys business to hand out leaflets opposing another human beings actions. He should mind his own business.

Perhaps we need to pass a law then allowing the police to kick the shit out of people who "don't mind their own business". Actually, we could solve all of our problems by allowing the cops to kick the shit out of people who look like they might commit a crime someday, a crime being messing in someone else's business.

.

miracles

04-06-2009, 05:02 AM

Perhaps we need to pass a law then allowing the police to kick the shit out of people who "don't mind their own business". Actually, we could solve all of our problems by allowing the cops to kick the shit out of people who look like they might commit a crime someday, a crime being messing in someone else's business.

.

Well I think we all know TPTB are currently in the process of engineering such laws and guantanamo bay is an exanple of such laws in action.

The fact is this guy was arrested we dont know why, and we know the cops acted abhorrently.

There is no issue here, because we dont know the full story. My point was initially to show this.

However it is my opnion that a guy who has been arrested once previoulsy for exact same "alledged" offense, is also a total idiot and is simply pushing the envelope.

miracles

04-06-2009, 05:05 AM

Then can you please explain this?

To clarify, The guy didnt deserve the treatment he got. However he put himself in this position as a result of being arrested once previoulsy.

I still have a semblance of faith that the poilce do not arrest people for nothing.

Bye bye.

thirdwave

04-06-2009, 10:14 AM

In that case its not this guys business to hand out leaflets opposing another human beings actions.

First of all we don't know that's what was being handed out.... second of all, looking to inform others about alternative views is not about opposing others actions as such... but is simply about providing alternative info so that there are more choices there for people to choose from, a choice that one person feels is more fruitful... it is up to the people what they choose to think.. and people should be free to provide choices for us all...

Your whole tone is fascist... lets not forget that the Nanzis where actually very noble to their cause and believed they were good and morally right... but they were still fascists and did not respect human freedom.

He should mind his own business. ( I dont agree with this statement any more than I agree with yours regarding that statement, to clarify)
He was minding his own business... his business is what he believes in and put in those flyers... that was his business... other people can interact with his business or just focus on their own...

I think its wonderful that we have the internet where much of the lies and tricks in the religion have been fully exposed over the years.... its healthy for people growing up to not be brainwashed by these oppressive and damaging dogmas.

As long as we have freedom then there will always be space for truth.... air for people to breath. We must hope that outlooks like your own are the minority.

yozhik

04-06-2009, 10:21 AM

I still have a semblance of faith that the poilce do not arrest people for nothing.

Bye bye.

May I suggest you watch this?

Abusive cop tasers man because he didnt sign a ticket - YouTube

manxboz

04-06-2009, 01:36 PM

Well myself and a friend are leaflet handing out for the first time this weekend, the goverment has turned us down for an info stall but we'll go ahead anyway

gilly

04-06-2009, 01:38 PM

Well myself and a friend are leaflet handing out for the first time this weekend, the goverment has turned us down for an info stall but we'll go ahead anyway

Good on you!
:)
Take a camera apiece, just incase - and best of luck!

dreamweaver

04-06-2009, 01:41 PM

Well myself and a friend are leaflet handing out for the first time this weekend, the goverment has turned us down for an info stall but we'll go ahead anyway

Nice one. :cool:

miracles

05-06-2009, 03:19 PM

First of all we don't know that's what was being handed out.... second of all, looking to inform others about alternative views is not about opposing others actions as such... but is simply about providing alternative info so that there are more choices there for people to choose from, a choice that one person feels is more fruitful... it is up to the people what they choose to think.. and people should be free to provide choices for us all...

Your whole tone is fascist... lets not forget that the Nanzis where actually very noble to their cause and believed they were good and morally right... but they were still fascists and did not respect human freedom.

He was minding his own business... his business is what he believes in and put in those flyers... that was his business... other people can interact with his business or just focus on their own...

I think its wonderful that we have the internet where much of the lies and tricks in the religion have been fully exposed over the years.... its healthy for people growing up to not be brainwashed by these oppressive and damaging dogmas.

As long as we have freedom then there will always be space for truth.... air for people to breath. We must hope that outlooks like your own are the minority.

The facist regime is luciferian, which is what your dogma is all about and you freely admit with the left hand and deny it with your right!. We also know that nazis where luciferian as are the ellite/masonic/illuminati. Ive got your number all ready pal I know what team you play for even if you dont from day to day.

We are entering into the time when people will believe "THE LIE" that you preach, just as the german people did. The window of opportunity where by people experience the age of grace and the opportnity to recieve the truth of the gospel is near it's end.

Lucifer and his followers think this is brilliant.

I think the internet is excellent for exposing this too.

He was minding his own business... his business is what he believes in and put in those flyers... that was his business... other people can interact with his business or just focus on their own

This is tripe as a definition for minding your own business even by your standards. Particulary since you are harping on about not knowing what is in the leaflets, which may very well be all about someone elses business other than his, (eg the pastor of the churches business, the pastor who comitted the heineous crime of failing to advise the authorities about building alterations oooooowe) IE someone elses business that he has decided for what ever reason to make his own business and give to other people in order to make it their business aswell. Hello is anybody home? Do behave, or at the very least, stop talking tripe.

PS, some pople think selling drugs to children is simply giving them a choice.

miracles

05-06-2009, 03:43 PM

May I suggest you watch this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H20cedylQAo

That is absolutley disgusting. I now have no faith. What a ball bag coward peice of shit into infinity. This poor excuse for a man obviously has no penis.

motleyhoo

05-06-2009, 04:42 PM

To clarify, The guy didnt deserve the treatment he got. However he put himself in this position as a result of being arrested once previoulsy.

I still have a semblance of faith that the poilce do not arrest people for nothing.

Bye bye.

That's not the real issue. The issue is, people are being arrested or mistreated for simpler and simpler infractions. It's no accident that our per capita prison populations are at an all time high and still growing. The privatized industrial prison system is a business that makes billions of dollars and is now even traded on the stock market. The forces of greed and the stock market itself demand a positive return on their investment. That means more beds need to be filled all the time,and that means the arrest and prosecution of more and more people. It's not the cops on the street who are making up the rules, but it's the big money people at the top who are setting the agenda and training them what to do. Your elected officials themselves are invested in this system because they know it is a sure money-maker.

.

redman

05-06-2009, 05:05 PM

miracles

05-06-2009, 06:10 PM

That's not the real issue. The issue is, people are being arrested or mistreated for simpler and simpler infractions. It's no accident that our per capita prison populations are at an all time high and still growing. The privatized industrial prison system is a business that makes billions of dollars and is now even traded on the stock market. The forces of greed and the stock market itself demand a positive return on their investment. That means more beds need to be filled all the time,and that means the arrest and prosecution of more and more people. It's not the cops on the street who are making up the rules, but it's the big money people at the top who are setting the agenda and training them what to do. Your elected officials themselves are invested in this system because they know it is a sure money-maker.

.

I agree, the whole thread is a non issue, as there is only one side of the story. But it's turned into a plethora of argueably off topic issues.

thirdwave

06-06-2009, 07:51 PM

The facist regime is luciferian,

That is compleatly ignorent and un researched bullshit.

It is a simply genrelisation useing Ludiferian as the world for evil occult stuff...

How on earth can Lucifer be seen as Facist?... you on,y go by what the bible says and even that does not high light his facist eliment and the bibles God is WAY more facist..

Luciver means light bringer.. it is all about enlightenment.. he is the snake that pointed Adam and Eve to the tree of knowledge... he is Promethius the hero that brought man kind fire... after god punished man kind by taking it from them.

The Elite may be Luciferian... and it seems to serve them well... though they are also like to hide him from others... which has not served man kind well...

You are just trying to spread Christian bullshit propaganda... which is becoming more and more see through by the hour.

which is what your dogma is all about and you freely admit with the left hand and deny it with your right!. We also know that nazis where luciferian as are the ellite/masonic/illuminati. Ive got your number all ready pal I know what team you play for even if you dont from day to day.

accusing someone of being Luciferian is a generalised tag.... its like pointing the finger at someone for believing in ghosts and because some of them are bad you call them all evil Ghostians.... and you have the cheek to talk of others Dogmas?.. and on top of that it is only speculation that they are all about Lucifer... like any icon or symbol, it can mean different things to different people and its power can benefit those for different reasons... the elite are very much Sun worshippers... just as the bible is based on.

there are many many Christian Fascist... who oppose Lucifer.

We are entering into the time when people will believe "THE LIE" that you preach, just as the german people did. The window of opportunity where by people experience the age of grace and the opportnity to recieve the truth of the gospel is near it's end.
If thats what you want to try and belive then It means jack shit to me... you can see it as a lie... and you can see it all as a game to test your faith... but the truth will shine through no matter what either of us think.

Lucifer and his followers think this is brilliant.
I do not follow Lucifer... I simply like what he represents.... the "follow" thing is very much based on your own mentality, while following your evil, fascist and oppressive god.

I think the internet is excellent for exposing this too.
The internet has recently exposed the desperation and how low many religious people will stoop to keep their illusion going... how they will attack others and do what ever they can to brainwash others into seeing things how they do.... they simply to not value individuality and ones own opinion... it is all about trying to converse everyone to their group mentality...

Im not trying to enforce anything, Im simply pointing it out..

If people like me putting another view point out there is such a damning thing to your faith, then the faith needs to take a rain check and needs to learn not to rely on others so much... and stop encouraging oppression.

This is tripe as a definition for minding your own business even by your standards. Particulary since you are harping on about not knowing what is in the leaflets, which may very well be all about someone elses business other than his, (eg the pastor of the churches business, the pastor who comitted the heineous crime of failing to advise the authorities about building alterations oooooowe) IE someone elses business that he has decided for what ever reason to make his own business and give to other people in order to make it their business aswell. Hello is anybody home? Do behave, or at the very least, stop talking tripe.

I have no intention of stopping talking thank you very much.

Now, I was the first to point out we did not know enough about the guy to know what was going on... but if we are to belive that it was all based on the fact he was handing out flyers that others did not like, then we are talking about oppresion... unless the flyers contrained somthing that was promotion violence or crime then the guy was doing nothing wrong.

he was standing handing flyers out... one can throw them away or read them, simple as that, I did not see him ramming it in peoples mouths.

You want to take his human rights away just because he is standing next to a fucking Church... and have the check to talk to me about luciferians being fascist and about Dogmas.

You are simply a hypocrite and a fascist. And we can all hope that less people adopt your oppressive dogmatic mind set.

PS, some pople think selling drugs to children is simply giving them a choice.

It is... it is up to the parents to make sure kids make the right choice.. not about people taking their choices away.

Some drugs from from the earth and it is man kinds right to take them... its only how society does not adapt to such things that make them isolated and dangerous.

miracles

07-06-2009, 01:01 AM

That is compleatly ignorent and un researched bullshit.

It is a simply genrelisation useing Ludiferian as the world for evil occult stuff...

How on earth can Lucifer be seen as Facist?... you on,y go by what the bible says and even that does not high light his facist eliment and the bibles God is WAY more facist..

Luciver means light bringer.. it is all about enlightenment.. he is the snake that pointed Adam and Eve to the tree of knowledge... he is Promethius the hero that brought man kind fire... after god punished man kind by taking it from them.

The Elite may be Luciferian... and it seems to serve them well... though they are also like to hide him from others... which has not served man kind well...

You are just trying to spread Christian bullshit propaganda... which is becoming more and more see through by the hour.

accusing someone of being Luciferian is a generalised tag.... its like pointing the finger at someone for believing in ghosts and because some of them are bad you call them all evil Ghostians.... and you have the cheek to talk of others Dogmas?.. and on top of that it is only speculation that they are all about Lucifer... like any icon or symbol, it can mean different things to different people and its power can benefit those for different reasons... the elite are very much Sun worshippers... just as the bible is based on.

there are many many Christian Fascist... who oppose Lucifer.

If thats what you want to try and belive then It means jack shit to me... you can see it as a lie... and you can see it all as a game to test your faith... but the truth will shine through no matter what either of us think.

I do not follow Lucifer... I simply like what he represents.... the "follow" thing is very much based on your own mentality, while following your evil, fascist and oppressive god.

The internet has recently exposed the desperation and how low many religious people will stoop to keep their illusion going... how they will attack others and do what ever they can to brainwash others into seeing things how they do.... they simply to not value individuality and ones own opinion... it is all about trying to converse everyone to their group mentality...

Im not trying to enforce anything, Im simply pointing it out..

If people like me putting another view point out there is such a damning thing to your faith, then the faith needs to take a rain check and needs to learn not to rely on others so much... and stop encouraging oppression.

I have no intention of stopping talking thank you very much.

Now, I was the first to point out we did not know enough about the guy to know what was going on... but if we are to belive that it was all based on the fact he was handing out flyers that others did not like, then we are talking about oppresion... unless the flyers contrained somthing that was promotion violence or crime then the guy was doing nothing wrong.

he was standing handing flyers out... one can throw them away or read them, simple as that, I did not see him ramming it in peoples mouths.

You want to take his human rights away just because he is standing next to a fucking Church... and have the check to talk to me about luciferians being fascist and about Dogmas.

You are simply a hypocrite and a fascist. And we can all hope that less people adopt your oppressive dogmatic mind set.

It is... it is up to the parents to make sure kids make the right choice.. not about people taking their choices away.

Some drugs from from the earth and it is man kinds right to take them... its only how society does not adapt to such things that make them isolated and dangerous.

Monkey see ,monkey do. Calling someone an ignorant christian hypocrite is a general tag used by many on this forum.

Every one knows the facist regime is satanic/luciferian evil and not Christian. Yes satan lucifer beelsibube, the dragon, deceiever, accuser, all the same thing luciferian, all the same thing. One deosnt need to research far to know this.

Just becuase you dont agree with my side - doesnt mean you can resort to calling me an ignorant hypocrite, which is what you call most everyone who doenst agree with you. "Ignorant" do a word tally of how many times you have used that word on 10,000 plus posts, it's probably close to 10000 times.

I am well aware that some poor deluded souls believe that lucifer is the one who has brought light into this fallen world, and one does not need extensive research to know this. Some are deluded however some are are fully aware of what they are doing, I have yet to conclude which one of those you are as yet.

If satan was not the ruler of this dark fallen world, parents would not need to worry so much about the temptations children come up against in the school yard, in fact it would be in the best interests of parents to keep their children out of the luciferian controlled school system all together. You say the opinions of others(or my opinions at least) mean jack shit to you, if that was the case you wouldn't be writing a book in answer to my comments, it is hypocritical of you to say such a thing, because if it where true you wouldnt even feel the need to comment.

PS; Mankind for whatever reason, has been given the freewill do anything he wants, including evil. I dont know why that is, but this does not mean evil is good anymore than it means lucifer is a benevolent friend of mankind.

veritasvoice

07-06-2009, 01:48 AM

The arrest was obviously a complete setup; look at the facts.

a) The man in the jacket knew the cop by name.

b) There was no other reason for him to get involved, with two police officers present; certainly not to use physical force to incapacitate the man handing out leaflets.

c) The man in the jacket was an ex-cop, who is now a federal agent.

The footage shows Rob Hart, a Federal Protective Service inspector, suddenly and forcefully grab Stinnette by the wrist and bend it awkwardly while helping McBride push Stinnette onto the patrol car's hood.

I'd have to ask these questions:

a) What crime was committed to warrant the police getting involved?

b) What law did this man break?

c) Most importantly - why was an Federal Protective Service (United States) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia agent monitoring this situation? He claims he was attending a church service - then why did he submit an official report?

This incident was police-state thuggery at its worst, the kind that good cops (and believe me, they do exist) utterly detest.

thirdwave

07-06-2009, 02:03 AM

Monkey see ,monkey do. Calling someone an ignorant christian hypocrite is a general tag used by many on this forum.

a, that's because the author of the forum does not support Christianity... and should not really shock you...

b, most Christians are ignorant and hypocritical, as are Jews and Muslims and so forth..

Every one knows the facist regime is satanic/luciferian evil and not Christian.

Apart from the many that dont of course :rolleyes: (the ones that have done their research and are not blinded by religious dogma)

Yes satan lucifer beelsibube, the dragon, deceiever, accuser, all the same thing luciferian, all the same thing. One deosnt need to research far to know this.

Only when one is limited to the perception of his brainwashing religion.. as you very much are.

the facts are there.. only for you facts appear as deception.

Just becuase you dont agree with my side - doesnt mean you can resort to calling me an ignorant hypocrite,

I have resorted to calling you that because its my assesment of you based on your posts.

which is what you call most everyone who doenst agree with you.

This is just lies... I have noticed Christians like your self are quite happy to brake a commandment to support your faith.

The fact you disagree with me means jack shit to me... I'm just pointing out that your views are not based on genuine research but are based on your religious faith.. you view the bible as fact... as the word of god... this requires faith to conclude... not fact.

the bibles view of Satan and Lucifer have been altered to what they were... you choose to believe it, others don't... and you choose to judge and point the finger at those who don't... and now have the cheek to imply I do not permit others to have a view... your very religion is guilty of this.

So again I must point out your hypocritical ignorance.

"Ignorant" do a word tally of how many times you have used that word on 10,000 plus posts, it's probably close to 10000 times.

ok.... quite irrelevant though.. if there was a better word to use I would.. but it fits perfectly... there are a couple others I could use on some but it would probably end up getting me banned.

I am well aware that some poor deluded souls believe that lucifer is the one who has brought light into this fallen world, and one does not need extensive research to know this. Some are deluded however some are are fully aware of what they are doing, I have yet to conclude which one of those you are as yet.

It has nothing to do with Delusion... its simply what is... what the bible even says... it is simply looking at the facts without looking through Christian spectacles where your faith dictates what you see...

you believe your god is right to forbid you from eating from the tree of knowledge!... I believe he is wrong to forbid me... and thank Lucifer for trying to help me... and bring me knowledge.

I don't expect you to stand in your pen and congratulate Lucifer for enlightening others... lol, or to pat me on the back for finding out your God is full of shit.

If satan was not the ruler of this dark fallen world, parents would not need to worry so much about the temptations children come up against in the school yard, in fact it would be in the best interests of parents to keep their children out of the luciferian controlled school system all together.

You are talking about Evil.... not light.

Christianity tells us Lucifer was fallen because he betrayed god... but it does not tell us what he really done... and what he done was help Man Kind from your gods oppression and enslavement, this is seen in previous myths where the story was taken from.

You say the opinions of others(or my opinions at least) mean jack shit to you, if that was the case you wouldn't be writing a book in answer to my comments, it is hypocritical of you to say such a thing, because if it where true you wouldn't even feel the need to comment.

I have answered this many times... This subject means allot to me.. I do not expect Christians to stop being Christians... its their choice... But I do find people like you useful to mirror this info and help spread the information on the internet, forums like this...

Im talking to the internet ..

I think in the coming years people need to look at religion and learn from it and as times begin to get crazy in the coming years they are not tricked again by some 3rd Testament... and so on... Im not bothered about you, you have made your decision quite clearly. I am focused on others who are looking for information and who find what I am talking about to resonate with them...

You are a Christian I am someone who finds Lucifer inspiring ... lets see who makes the most sense?

smoke n mirrors

07-06-2009, 02:33 AM

miracles

07-06-2009, 03:14 AM

a, that's because the author of the forum does not support Christianity... and should not really shock you...

b, most Christians are ignorant and hypocritical, as are Jews and Muslims and so forth..

Apart from the many that dont of course :rolleyes: (the ones that have done their research and are not blinded by religious dogma)

Only when one is limited to the perception of his brainwashing religion.. as you very much are.

the facts are there.. only for you facts appear as deception.

I have resorted to calling you that because its my assesment of you based on your posts.

This is just lies... I have noticed Christians like your self are quite happy to brake a commandment to support your faith.

The fact you disagree with me means jack shit to me... I'm just pointing out that your views are not based on genuine research but are based on your religious faith.. you view the bible as fact... as the word of god... this requires faith to conclude... not fact.

the bibles view of Satan and Lucifer have been altered to what they were... you choose to believe it, others don't... and you choose to judge and point the finger at those who don't... and now have the cheek to imply I do not permit others to have a view... your very religion is guilty of this.

So again I must point out your hypocritical ignorance.

ok.... quite irrelevant though.. if there was a better word to use I would.. but it fits perfectly... there are a couple others I could use on some but it would probably end up getting me banned.

It has nothing to do with Delusion... its simply what is... what the bible even says... it is simply looking at the facts without looking through Christian spectacles where your faith dictates what you see...

you believe your god is right to forbid you from eating from the tree of knowledge!... I believe he is wrong to forbid me... and thank Lucifer for trying to help me... and bring me knowledge.

I don't expect you to stand in your pen and congratulate Lucifer for enlightening others... lol, or to pat me on the back for finding out your God is full of shit.

You are talking about Evil.... not light.

Christianity tells us Lucifer was fallen because he betrayed god... but it does not tell us what he really done... and what he done was help Man Kind from your gods oppression and enslavement, this is seen in previous myths where the story was taken from.

I have answered this many times... This subject means allot to me.. I do not expect Christians to stop being Christians... its their choice... But I do find people like you useful to mirror this info and help spread the information on the internet, forums like this...

Im talking to the internet ..

I think in the coming years people need to look at religion and learn from it and as times begin to get crazy in the coming years they are not tricked again by some 3rd Testament... and so on... Im not bothered about you, you have made your decision quite clearly. I am focused on others who are looking for information and who find what I am talking about to resonate with them...

You are a Christian I am someone who finds Lucifer inspiring ... lets see who makes the most sense?

Your always banging on about the author of the forum not supporting Christianity as if it gives you cartblanche to say whatever lies you want about the faith. The author of the forum believes in free speech.

Most know that a christian believes is the bible, I have yet to see you divuldge what text/teacher it is that you embrace and follow, as if to imply that your ideas are all your own, which clearly they aren't. What are your sources for your belief., Do they come from meditation under the balbaoa tree whilst excercising your right to partake in mind altering substances or what?

PS: Thank you for you vaulable input to the dicussion smoke and mirrors. Your opinions mean Jack Sparrow shit to me.

motleyhoo

07-06-2009, 06:29 AM

Most know that a christian believes is the bible, I have yet to see you divuldge what text/teacher it is that you embrace and follow, as if to imply that your ideas are all your own, which clearly they aren't. What are your sources for your belief., Do they come from meditation under the balbaoa tree whilst excercising your right to partake in mind altering substances or what?

The fallacy in your religion is that you believe you have to put your faith in some book in order to be saved. I doubt you even know where said book came from, or how many times it has been translated, mistranslated (both by accident and intentionally), and skewed in order to promote a political agenda of control in the form of reward vs punishment, by political and religious figures that ruled over people like a serfdom. You are told, I mean dictated to, by so-called religious authority figures that it does not matter how, when, for what reason, or by whom the Bible was written because it was the spirit (divine inspiration) of your God flowing thru these individuals as they put pen to paper. The amount of evidence before you proving this to be a complete farce is invisible to you simply because your religious authority figures tell you what to believe, and that anything that falls outside of that belief is a trick of "the Devil". The truth is, you do not need anyone to teach God to you, and you most certainly do not need a book that is incomplete and inadequate at best, because the same spirit of God flows thu you and everyone else same as it supposedly flowed thru the charlatans who put the Bible together. The day you realize this will be the day you truly know what it is like to be spiritually free, and the feelng of liberation will flow thru you like lightning. Believe me, as a recovering ex-Baptist, before I experienced a traumatic near death experience, I know. If your God was truly as described in the Bible, he/she/it would not demand to be worshiped. Mine certainly does not.

.

sheepy

07-06-2009, 06:46 AM

miracles

07-06-2009, 06:53 AM

The fallacy in your religion is that you believe you have to put your faith in some book in order to be saved. I doubt you even know where said book came from, or how many times it has been translated, mistranslated (both by accident and intentionally), and skewed in order to promote a political agenda of control in the form of reward vs punishment, by political and religious figures that ruled over people like a serfdom. You are told, I mean dictated to, by so-called religious authority figures that it does not matter how, when, for what reason, or by whom the Bible was written because it was the spirit (divine inspiration) of your God flowing thru these individuals as they put pen to paper. The amount of evidence before you proving this to be a complete farce is invisible to you simply because your religious authority figures tell you what to believe, and that anything that falls outside of that belief is a trick of "the Devil". The truth is, you do not need anyone to teach God to you, and you most certainly do not need a book that is incomplete and inadequate at best, because the same spirit of God flows thu you and everyone else same as it supposedly flowed thru the charlatans who put the Bible together. The day you realize this will be the day you truly know what it is like to be spiritually free, and the feelng of liberation will flow thru you like lightning. Believe me, as a recovering ex-Baptist, before I experienced a traumatic near death experience, I know. If your God was truly as described in the Bible, he/she/it would not demand to be worshiped. Mine certainly does not.

.

Well Im glad you didnt die.

I too am a recovering ex "independant" bible baptist, so I have no religious leaders and am not allied with any sect, creed or denomonation. But it has yet to be proven by a person that has had a near death experience or anyone else, that the bible is not the inpsired word God. And I have been on this forum long enough and have been open to anyone presenting me with evidence to prove otherwise (still am for that matter) - still nothing !!! Freewill states that God can not nor will not demand that he be worshipped, a recovering ex baptist who has ever read the bible would know that. The book doesnt save, what is written in the book leads one to the one who does save.

Just as amatter of interest, my spritual awakening was as a direct result of reading a bible (given to me by my father, not a religious man) in the comfort of my own home, it wasnt until I ventured out into the church communty and allowed myself to be spoon fed by preachers and teachers from a pulpit that my spritual life and growth was thwarted. I pitty the poor souls who are trapped in these institutions through fear and all manner of spiritual trickery and skull dugery. But I maintain that the word of God can be trusted and one can be lead and guided through it unto understanding with desernment given the wonderful counsellor.

tien an

07-06-2009, 07:14 AM

found this in one of the links.

According to a police report written by McBride, Hart — a former Eugene officer — called police to complain that Stinnette had been aggressively approaching churchgoers with leaflets claiming their pastor was previously involved with a controversy at another church in Southern Oregon.

McBride wrote in his report that when he arrived at the church on Dec. 21, he stepped out of his patrol car and tapped his badge to cue Hart to grab Stinnette.

"This is a known signal for officers to move in and handcuff the suspect," McBride wrote.

Eugene police had arrested Stinnette, 39, the previous Sunday on similar allegations. McBride was not involved with that case. Charges filed against Stinnette in the earlier arrest also were later dismissed.

Exactly!

I was reading through this thread (and the article) when I also found the above...(the link is in post 4)

I wonder how many of the posters actually read the article?

big al? hmmm?
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1022892&postcount=12
(the irony in the final statement is priceless)

tien an.

motleyhoo

07-06-2009, 07:40 AM

But I maintain that the word of God can be trusted and one can be lead and guided through it unto understanding with desernment given the wonderful counsellor.

Yes, but God's Word is not the Bible. Modern Christianity has brainwashed people into believing that when the Bible refers to God's Word, or the Word of God, that it is referring to the Bible itself. This is simply false, and was done to enslave people by shackling them to one source of information and one source only. That is why the church tells you that the Bible is God's Word, and that only they can tell you what it means. In reality, God's Word is merely the Aramaic peoples word for the life force of God that flows thru all living creatures. It has many other names (just like God has many names across other cultures) such as Prana and Chi (or Qi) for example.

The reason that it makes no sense for God's Word to be the Bible is because the Bible was written by bureaucratic dictators during a time when the church was the govt and ruled over people with an iron fist. These are the same people who believed there were only two classes of people, rulers and slaves, the same people who strung people up and burned "heretics" at the stake, and these are the same people, who after writing their so-called Bible, launched a religious crusade across Europe, killing millions in the name of their God. There is no way that any individuals who were treating people like that would have the spirit of the Lord flowing thu them. It doesn't mean the Bible is useless. It means it is being used in the wrong way, and on purpose to keep all the power in the churches hands and out of the individual's. When you know the true history of the Bible and the people who wrote it, you will intuitively understand what they purposely left out and why, and what they changed or added in to suit their agendas and why.

When you studied any topic in school would you have thought it funny if the teacher told you there was one and only one book to be trusted on the subject, and that any other viewpoint was a trick or extraneous? IMO, to be a true scholar of spirituality one must gather and ponder texts from many different religions, as well as other religious studies. Put all your faith in one book you'll come up way short because everything you need to know is not in there. And most of all, you have to use critical thinking skills when reading anything, including the Bible, and including what I just wrote.

.

miracles

07-06-2009, 08:00 AM

Yes, but God's Word is not the Bible. Modern Christianity has brainwashed people into believing that when the Bible refers to God's Word, or the Word of God, that it is referring to the Bible itself. This is simply false, and was done to enslave people by shackling them to one source of information and one source only. That is why the church tells you that the Bible is God's Word, and that only they can tell you what it means. In reality, God's Word is merely the Aramaic peoples word for the life force of God that flows thru all living creatures. It has many other names (just like God has many names across other cultures) such as Prana and Chi (or Qi) for example.

The reason that it makes no sense for God's Word to be the Bible is because the Bible was written by bureaucratic dictators during a time when the church was the govt and ruled over people with an iron fist. These are the same people who believed there were only two classes of people, rulers and slaves, the same people who strung people up and burned "heretics" at the stake, and these are the same people, who after writing their so-called Bible, launched a religious crusade across Europe, killing millions in the name of their God. There is no way that any individuals who were treating people like that would have the spirit of the Lord flowing thu them. It doesn't mean the Bible is useless. It means it is being used in the wrong way, and on purpose to keep all the power in the churches hands and out of the individual's. When you know the true history of the Bible and the people who wrote it, you will intuitively understand what they purposely left out and why, and what they changed or added in to suit their agendas and why.

When you studied any topic in school would you have thought it funny if the teacher told you there was one and only one book to be trusted on the subject, and that any other viewpoint was a trick or extraneous? IMO, to be a true scholar of spirituality one must gather and ponder texts from many different religions, as well as other religious studies. Put all your faith in one book you'll come up way short because everything you need to know is not in there. And most of all, you have to use critical thinking skills when reading anything, including the Bible, and including what I just wrote.

.

Well motley, you are entitled as I am to believe and post what you want. The bible claims to be the word of God aswell, remeber that as does Jesus claim to be the only true way. And the reason the bible and Christ etc like no other book and no other God is under constant attack is because (in my humble opinion) it is the word of God, we dont see the Koran of the bhagavad gita or hindu scripture coming under such attack do we? Ever wonder why that might be? People who trundle out the old arguement that the bible is to ensalve and control people amuses me, because in that endeavour it has greatly failed has it not!

having said that, this line of thought is off topic for the thread. Happy to get into this elsewhere if you wish

.

thirdwave

07-06-2009, 11:14 AM

@ thirdwave

How can you seriously attempt to have a reasoned debate with someone that demonstrates a belief based on blind faith? Clearly that in its self establishes that there can be no reasoning. :confused:

Not that I'm complaining I really can't be arsed one way or the other. :)

@ veritasvoice Nice post.

.

Your right, I don't expect to get reason out of them... But it is still about discussing truth.. and if in every 10 people reading the thread, 1 goes of and does their research on it then its all good..

yozhik

07-06-2009, 11:27 AM

Hmmmm ...

Thread Title: "Cops take leaflet dealer off the street"
Thread Content: lucifer, christianity, religion, the Bible

Cool.

thirdwave

07-06-2009, 11:30 AM

Your always banging on about the author of the forum not supporting Christianity as if it gives you cartblanche to say whatever lies you want about the faith. The author of the forum believes in free speech.

We are now beginning to see your devious and manipultative side I think.
I could not have made free speech more clear, infact it is the bases of my point on this thread yet shockingly you have chosen to by pass that... Well not shockingly really as I find most religious people are extreamly ignorent.

And I have not uttered one lie, it is you that is lieing. I could not be more open and explanatory about my views here.

When ever I have brought up who owns the forum it is simply in response to your complaints that so many here do not respect Christianity.

I am simply pointing out that if this irritates you then your selection of forums to visit could be re assessed.

It would be like me going to a Christian forum and complaining that so many people believe in Jesus Christ... pretty stupid hu?

I dont eat everything Icke puts on the table but I think its quite clear that religion and Christianity are very much things he feels are part of the global problem... So why expect to chat to a load of Jesus fans on his forum?

It not only promotes ignorance but also arrogance.

of course you have a right to your view as silly as they may be... but lets not try and re invent someone else's forum.

I will make a deal with you, I wont mention its his forum and that he opposes religion, if you don't complain about there being people here who oppose religion,, deal?

Most know that a christian believes is the bible, I have yet to see you divuldge what text/teacher it is that you embrace and follow,

LOL, is it to much for you to contemplate that I do not follow any doctrine?

I have made it very clear what inspires me, but I also feel no need to worship or pledge my elegence to any group... set belife system or god.

Read my sig.

as if to imply that your ideas are all your own, which clearly they aren't. What are your sources for your belief., Do they come from meditation under the balbaoa tree whilst excercising your right to partake in mind altering substances or what?

Now you are just a walking contradiction.... how do you know if they are not my own if you have just stated you dont know what I "embrace"

And on top of that,MY WORD!, how much more hypocritical do you want to be?... your views are based on 2 books... 1 2000 years old and 1 3000 or so years old.... that's it!

So don't talk to me about what ideas are not mine when you don't even know what ideas they are!

you are kidding me right?

PS: Thank you for you vaulable input to the dicussion smoke and mirrors. Your opinions mean Jack Sparrow shit to me.

From your perspective I am very much the deceiver and trickster with Lucifer the lord of evil working through me, So its a good job it means jack to you, as you would not want to be tricked away from your faith now would you?. I totally understand that, but most of my discussion here is for open and free perspectives... where I expect things to be more fruitful and cover more ground..

thirdwave

07-06-2009, 11:32 AM

Hmmmm ...

Thread Title: "Cops take leaflet dealer off the street"
Thread Content: lucifer, christianity, religion, the Bible

Cool.

the guy was standing outside of a church handing out relevant leaflets... there for it is relevant.

unless we are not interested in what the guy was doing to be arrested like that?

yozhik

07-06-2009, 11:44 AM

the guy was standing outside of a church handing out relevant leaflets... there for it is relevant.

unless we are not interested in what the guy was doing to be arrested like that?

No.

It is not relevant.
It is a side issue.

He was handing out pamphlets; that's what he was doing.
That's what we're interested in.

The OP had no inference of it being a "religious" phenomenon.
It was 100% to do with the cops and the manner/method of detaining the leaflet dropper.

You obviously have an issue with organised religion and other side topics.
However, you are railroading this thread and deviating it from its core issue.

But hey ... you can always start your own thread on the topic you are attempting to take this one to.

Just so we're clear on that, I'll post it again;

Thread Title: "Cops take leaflet dealer off the street"
Thread Content: lucifer, christianity, religion, the Bible

the guy was standing outside of a church handing out relevant leaflets... there for it is relevant.

unless we are not interested in what the guy was doing to be arrested like that?

Great; we agree ... it is about a guy being arrested for handing out pamphlets.
So let's look at your most recent posts; #92 and #103

A summary of your posts would look something like;

blah blah blah GOD blah blah blah HYPOCRITE blah blah blah LUCIFER blah blah blah FORUM blah blah blah DECEPTION blah blah blah BIBLE blah blah blah STUPID blah blah blah LIES blah blah blah SYSTEM blah blah blah BRAINWASHING blah blah blah CHRISTIANITY blah blah blah SATAN blah blah blah ICKE blah blah blah DELUSION

Word count for "pamphlet" ... 0
Word count for "arrested" ... 0
Word count for "cops" ... 0

thirdwave

07-06-2009, 12:12 PM

No.

It is not relevant.
It is a side issue.

So if this guy got arrested for handing out flyers because they opposed religion then its not relevant...

Well we all have opinions, if it all the same to you I will have a different one to yours.. are you sure you are not speaking for Jesus here? I notice you have not targeted the Christian chap who began the religious debate before I had arrived... a tad bit odd!

He was handing out pamphlets; that's what he was doing.
That's what we're interested in.

I think it would be wonderful if you allowed others to find their own interest's... and also to stop trying to dictate what issues have been found in this video... saying that religion is a side issue is a tad bit retarded really as it is what he was arrested for...

If he had been arrested for child abuse.. or steeling then there would not really be an issue to start with... but he was not, the subject is about a man being dealt with for handing out flyers outside a chruch...

Im interested in why the man was arrested and to asses the severity of it... and like it or not is is an issue that relates to religion.

The OP had no inference of it being a "religious" phenomenon.
It was 100% to do with the cops and the manner/method of detaining the leaflet dropper.

He also did not stake the claim for controlling how the thread would go depending of the nature of the arrest... (like you seem to think you can do)

its clear the arrest was down to religious oppression and I find you also have an oppressive attitude to this... sure you were not the under cover cop?

You obviously have an issue with organised religion and other side topics.
However, you are railroading this thread and deviating it from its core issue.

Of course, I am open about who and what I am... what's your stance?, other that trying to oppress my views.

But hey ... you can always start your own thread on the topic you are attempting to take this one to.

What I am going to do is stop talking to you, and get back to the thread topic... which is about a guy who was handing out flyers outside a church and was man handled and arrested for doing so....

If you want to start another thread about the subject (minus that part about what the guy was supposedly guilty of) then go for it. :rolleyes:

Thread Title: "Cops take leaflet dealer off the street"
Thread Content: lucifer, christianity, religion, the Bible[/QUOTE]

Well Im glad you are throwing posts at me, better than being grabbed like the dude was grabbed in the vid... for speaking out against religion.

miracles

07-06-2009, 12:21 PM

We are now beginning to see your devious and manipultative side I think.
I could not have made free speech more clear, infact it is the bases of my point on this thread yet shockingly you have chosen to by pass that... Well not shockingly really as I find most religious people are extreamly ignorent.

every one is religious to an extent, including you

And I have not uttered one lie, it is you that is lieing. I could not be more open and explanatory about my views here.

Where have I lied? And where have I accused you of lieing?

When ever I have brought up who owns the forum it is simply in response to your complaints that so many here do not respect Christianity.

I dont demand or expect respect for Chrisianity. I take umbridge at hpow some communcate their ideas and thoughts about those who believe in it though EG Ingorant Christian Hypocrite is used like the words "and" and "the" the by somr around here usually followed with gnerous amounts of "liar and lies"

I do expect to be considered as a human being that happens to me a member of this forum first and a Christian second if that's not too much to ask. I think I have said this on numerous occassions that I have not come to this forum as a christian to preach and convert and evangelise, merely as a person intersted in many topics on the forum.

I am simply pointing out that if this irritates you then your selection of forums to visit could be re assessed.

It doesnt irrate me in the slighteset, although it appears clear that my presence here irratates you. Tough!

It would be like me going to a Christian forum and complaining that so many people believe in Jesus Christ... pretty stupid hu?

refer to earlier statement aboutbeing a human being first.

I dont eat everything Icke puts on the table but I think its quite clear that religion and Christianity are very much things he feels are part of the global problem... So why expect to chat to a load of Jesus fans on his forum?

I dont, nor was do I expect to see luciferian running the place either.

It not only promotes ignorance but also arrogance.

of course you have a right to your view as silly as they may be... but lets not try and re invent someone else's forum.

If thats the case, then whats your problem?

I will make a deal with you, I wont mention its his forum and that he opposes religion, if you don't complain about there being people here who oppose religion,, deal?

Deal!

LOL, is it to much for you to contemplate that I do not follow any doctrine?

No, but usually people here expect and provide sources, unless they have something to hide.

Now you are just a walking contradiction.... how do you know if they are not my own if you have just stated you dont know what I "embrace"

You are always telling people to research! Research what exactly???

And on top of that,MY WORD!, how much more hypocritical do you want to be?... your views are based on 2 books... 1 2000 years old and 1 3000 or so years old.... that's it!

Whay is this hypocritical??

So don't talk to me about what ideas are not mine when you don't even know what ideas they are!

you are kidding me right?

From your perspective I am very much the deceiver and trickster with Lucifer the lord of evil working through me, So its a good job it means jack to you, as you would not want to be tricked away from your faith now would you?. I totally understand that, but most of my discussion here is for open and free perspectives... where I expect things to be more fruitful and cover more ground..

Actually I am intersted in your views, I just say it means jack to me , because that's another one of your favourite sayings whan you dont agree with me and tey you feel the need to cross examione every word I right, which is hyporcritical.