The Nazi UFO Conspiracy

[bard]

A good movie about the Nazi UFO conspiracy (43 min)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2301623855480311871&q=source%3A006119842228418782502&hl=en

[bard]

The movie is in fact from the Discovery channel, so it is not the ultimate source of truth. But it agrees quite well with what one can recover from the works of
Igor Witkoswki, Nick Cook and Joseph Farrell.

Here is a map showing the Nazi exploration area in Antarctica:

http://strangemaps.files.wordpress.com/2007/03/nsl1.jpg

[finn234]

ever seen this film before?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8291386537788537096&ei=qF0tStrfOcWK-QaVq5GpCQ&q=ufo+secrets+of+the+third+reich

i dont know if the nazis relocated to the north pole, but according to this film and other reports, they had what we call 'flying saucers' and believed they made contact, through channelings, with beings that claimed to be from the andromedan star system. kind of like aleister crowley and much of the New Age.

[bard]

A natural follow up on the story is the following movie:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-834605691449249469&ei=nmZNSsP3AqnvlQfBk-GoDg&q=the+secret+evidence

The movie is presented by Nick Cook, a British journalist, who was one of the first to bring the Nazi UFO connection to public attention. The movie starts with the German research back in the 1940s, but then it quickly moves to the UFO craziness of the 1950s and 60s. The version pushed by Cook is that most of the sightings in USA were those of secret military aircrafts (highly advanced technology but nothing truly revolutionary). The extraterrestrial connection was largely a campaign of disinformation. There are plenty of cases however that cannot be explained in this way. The movie briefly discusses the cattle mutilation accidents in the 1970s and 1980s.

There is no doubt that some type of high voltage device is an important part in the operation of the flying disks. The humming noise, the glow - this all indicates corona discharge.

[bard]

Here is an excerpt from Chapter 13 (Quantum Numerology and Vorticular Physics, Nazi Style) of Joseph Farrell's seminal book "The Reich of the Black Sun":
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

A starting point for entry into this much-maligned aspect of UFOlogy is what German physics actually was doing prior to and during the War under the Nazis. Much has been written of the deleterious effects of Nazi ideology on banning "Jewish physics," i.e., relativity, from German science, so this will not be covered again here. This left quantum mechanics as the only genuine physics that could equally be claimed to be "Aryan" and pursued by Nazi physicists with a vengeance. Quantum mechanics, in the state in which it then existed, could be summarized as having the following emphases and implications for the German scientists involved:

1. The rejection of relativity meant to a certain extent that the pre-relativistic idea of an aether lumeniferous regained some currency, via its quantum mechanics version of zero point energy or vacuum flux. German scientists were therefore not free to pursue relativistic science, but were free to investigate the enigmatic properties of this new "quantum aether." Indeed, with various esoteric and occult doctrines percolating in the background, such as the notion of "vril" energy, and Reichenbach's early and well-known experiments in the 18th century on "life force" energy, the Germans would have been positively encouraged by the underlying ideology to undertake experimental examination of its properties as far as existing technology would allow;

2. Reichenbach's experiments, plus the implications of Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle, may have influenced German scientists to posit a connection between consciousness, quantum physics, and this underlying "quantum aether". The strange Ahnenerbe experiments mentioned earlier would seem to indicate that some such experiments in consciousness were being undertaken;

3. Pre-war standard physics papers by Gerlach had indicated connections between spin and resonance effects;

4. The paradoxes of quantum mechanics had also become known, leading Einstein, Podolsky, and Rosen to posit "quantum loopholes" in relativity's own "velocity of light speed limit" for faster-than-light transference of information;

5. One German physicist of some repute, O.C. Hilgenberg, a student of gravitation expert Walter Gerlach, had taken Gerlach's work one step further, as we shall see;

6. German physicists thus had strong internal impetus as well as external ideological pressures to investigate the properties of rotating media and fields, especially since the results of Georges Sagnac's rotational version of the Michelson-Morley experiment were known to them;

7. The Germans knew of Tesla's extraordinary claims for beaming electric power, as well as of his high voltage direct current impulse experiments which revealed superluminal electro-acoustic longitudinal wave forms;

8. The Germans would likely have known of E.T. Whittaker's pre-relativistic papers, which were a mathematical study of such wave forms.
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

The whole book can be found here:
http://www.thewebfairy.com/missilegate/rfz/swaz/

Again, most of it is pure speculation, but one must wonder..

Another fact that Farrell's does seem to know is that in 1935 a review paper was published
http://prola.aps.org/abstract/RMP/v7/i2/p129_1
on the so called Barnett's effect (a rotating ferromagnetic sample acquires magnetization along the axis of rotation)

German scientists working in Nuclear Physics could have tried to follow up on this research and see if similar effect exists at nuclear level, so that it results in nuclear spin coherence. Throw in some occult connection to alchemy and some luck, and they may have stumbled upon something that was way ahead of their time ;).

[bard]

I resurrect this thread from oblivion, since it occured to me that the nazi flag may hide a secret.

http://matchstic.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/nazi-flag.jpg

In his recent book "Philosopher's Stone: Alchemy and the Secret Research for Exotic Matter", Joseph Farrell speculates at length about the "alchemical" Reich.

Now, looking at the flag, one sees a vortex in the middle (the swastika), then the 3 colors -> black, white and red, which are the exact color sequence observed when obtaining the philosopher's stone.

The official story behind the Nazi Flag does not mention alchemy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika#As_the_symbol_of_Nazism

[tinyint]

I resurrect this thread from oblivion, since it occured to me that the nazi flag may hide a secret.

http://matchstic.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/nazi-flag.jpg

In his recent book "Philosopher's Stone: Alchemy and the Secret Research for Exotic Matter", Joseph Farrell speculates at length about the "alchemical" Reich.

Now, looking at the flag, one sees a vortex in the middle (the swastika), then the 3 colors -> black, white and red, which are the exact color sequence observed when obtaining the philosopher's stone.

The official story behind the Nazi Flag does not mention alchemy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika#As_the_symbol_of_Nazism

The right threads popping up at the right time, funny... :)

Yes, Farrell is on spot, me thinks.
Though, I have not read this one yet.
Have you?

[bard]

Yes, Farrell is on spot, me thinks.
Though, I have not read this one yet.
Have you?

Farrell's book is largely speculative but it got me interested in Alchemy. There is something in it.

[haukipesukone]

Nice thread. I've been obsessed with Nazi UFOs ever since I first heard about them.

[2013]

I resurrect this thread from oblivion, since it occured to me that the nazi flag may hide a secret.

http://matchstic.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/nazi-flag.jpg

In his recent book "Philosopher's Stone: Alchemy and the Secret Research for Exotic Matter", Joseph Farrell speculates at length about the "alchemical" Reich.

Now, looking at the flag, one sees a vortex in the middle (the swastika), then the 3 colors -> black, white and red, which are the exact color sequence observed when obtaining the philosopher's stone.

The official story behind the Nazi Flag does not mention alchemy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika#As_the_symbol_of_Nazism

One of the Mayan based books i read possibly by Maurice Cotteril had a Mayan glyph representing the solar wind it is curved circular in fashion but swastika shaped . This is where they all draw the image from , so perhaps this has to do with propulsion system ? :D

[zmanforever]

this is spooky hitlers body never found people!

[haukipesukone]

this is spooky hitlers body never found people!

I'm trying to decipher your sentence. Is Spooky Hitlers Body a musical group? Do you mean the aforementioned group never founded people or it searched for people but never found anyone? That makes sense. But then I don't understand the "this is" in the beginning of the sentence. Do you mean "This is Spooky Hitlers Body"? Then I don't understand what "never found people refers to, and what "this" is in this context?

[astrochicken]

3-dimensional vortex and a 2-dimensional swastikah.


http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/8321/spirasvasava.gif

[tinyint]

I'm trying to decipher your sentence. Is Spooky Hitlers Body a musical group? Do you mean the aforementioned group never founded people or it searched for people but never found anyone? That makes sense. But then I don't understand the "this is" in the beginning of the sentence. Do you mean "This is Spooky Hitlers Body"? Then I don't understand what "never found people refers to, and what "this" is in this context?


I understoord it like he is thinking that Hitler's body has never been found.
Since I can walk, there have been rumors that Hitler took the last flight from Berlin Tempelhof(approx. TempleYard) via Kiel, Barcelona to Southamerica.
Stalin, at least to say, was convinced Hitler escaped, leading to a known quote on that... which I can't find atm in english :o

The whole topic is deeply connected with the appearance of the so called "Galactic Federation of Light" :eek:
I read these kind of messages 10 years ago apart from the oral tradition here, since I grew up near Jonasthal and Gothawerke.

My main thesis is:

The whole disclosure thingy is a cover for the escaped faction, since people would find it possibly more believable to accept/fight(?) ET than being told they have been lied on by the disclosers :)

I'll explain and share more on the topic later... it is soo complex in its implications

[ag3nt5mith]

Story found here after a quick search:-

http://www.rense.com/general3/8000.htm

Excerpt from the World Island Review, January 1992.
9-10-00

To read more about the amazing "air craft" ( Vimana )
recorded in ancient Hindu writings, click here:-

Vimana - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Indian epic poetry - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ancient City Found In India
Irradiated By Nuclear Blast
8,000 Years Ago. Radiation is still so intense, the area is highly dangerous

A heavy layer of radioactive ash in Rajasthan, India, covers a three-square mile area, ten miles west of Jodhpur. Scientists are investigating the site, where a housing development was being built.

For some time it has been established that there is a very high rate of birth defects and cancer in the area under construction. The levels of radiation there have registered so high on investigators' gauges that the Indian government has now cordoned off the region. Scientists have unearthed an ancient city where evidence shows an atomic blast dating back thousands of years, from 8,000 to 12,000 years, destroyed most of the buildings and probably a half-million people. One researcher estimates that the nuclear bomb used was about the size of the ones dropped on Japan in 1945.

The Mahabharata clearly describes a catastrophic blast that rocked the continent. "A single projectile charged with all the power in the Universe...An incandescent column of smoke and flame as bright as 10,000 suns, rose in all its splendor...it was an unknown weapon, an iron thunderbolt, a gigantic messenger of death which reduced to ashes an entire race.

"The corpses were so burned as to be unrecognizable. Their hair and nails fell out, pottery broke without any apparent cause, and the birds turned white.

"After a few hours, all foodstuffs were infected. To escape from this fire, the soldiers threw themselves into the river."

Historian Kisari Mohan Ganguli says that Indian sacred writings are full of such descriptions, which sound like an atomic blast as experienced in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. He says references mention fighting sky chariots and final weapons. An ancient battle is described in the Drona Parva, a section of the Mahabharata. "The passage tells of combat where explosions of final weapons decimate entire armies, causing crowds of warriors with steeds and elephants and weapons to be carried away as if they were dry leaves of trees," says Ganguli.

"Instead of mushroom clouds, the writer describes a perpendicular explosion with its billowing smoke clouds as consecutive openings of giant parasols. There are comments about the contamination of food and people's hair falling out."

Archeologist Francis Taylor says that etchings in some nearby temples he has managed to translate suggest that they prayed to be spared from the great light that was coming to lay ruin to the city. "It's so mid-boggling to imagine that some civilization had nuclear technology before we did. The radioactive ash adds credibility to the ancient Indian records that describe atomic warfare."

Construction has halted while the five member team conducts the investigation. The foreman of the project is Lee Hundley, who pioneered the investigation after the high level of radiation was discovered.

Some how this is all fitting into place:-

The Violet, Vishnu, Venus, Vixen, Vortex:-

The Violet, Vishnu, Venus, Vixen, Vortex - YouTube

Hyperborea, The Pineal Gland, and The Spear of Destiny - YouTube

Nazis, Ufos, vishnu, swasitkas, aryan, hyperborea, aliens, zero point energy...

I'm seeing all kind of weird links here, is anyone else?

I think maybe the swasitka origin is alien, the symbol of their advanced technology.

Seems all the ancient world knew of this:-

http://www.greatdreams.com/solar/swastika4.gif

Heres what wiki says about the swasitka:-

The Swastika is one of the 108 symbols of Hindu deity Vishnu, it remains widely used in Eastern and Dharmic religions such as Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism.

Link to the page:-

Swastika - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Questions are racing in my mind.

Where did the Nazis relocate too? The north pole...?

Where is there said to be an entrance to the underworld? The north pole...?

Who lives in the underworld? Vishnu, the Aryans of alien origin, links to atlantis and the stories of hyperborea....?

So did the nazis meet a vishnu like alien? Did they make peaceful first contact with this alien race at the north pole or did they defeat them and take their technology for themselves?

Hope you guys can follow my scrambled thought patterns. lol :D

If you like the videos above more can be found here:-

soundlessdawn's Channel - YouTube

&

IamLegend333's Channel - YouTube

This guys abit of a legend.

[jakemaverick]

I'm trying to decipher your sentence. Is Spooky Hitlers Body a musical group? Do you mean the aforementioned group never founded people or it searched for people but never found anyone? That makes sense. But then I don't understand the "this is" in the beginning of the sentence. Do you mean "This is Spooky Hitlers Body"? Then I don't understand what "never found people refers to, and what "this" is in this context?

yep- some people should try thinking b4 trying to talk......good post!!!

[tinyint]

I'm seeing all kind of weird links here, is anyone else?
...
Questions are racing in my mind.
...
Hope you guys can follow my scrambled thought patterns. lol :D



I am completely with you here :)

I am trying to answer from my perspective:


I think maybe the swasitka origin is alien, the symbol of their advanced technology.

Nope, it is the symbol for our galaxy, nature itself, rotation, vortex

Who the ancients that wisdom got from, can be speculated on :D



Where did the Nazis relocate too? The north pole...?


Nope, more likely southpole, as "Operation Highjump" in 1947 seems to indicate. The nazis sent an expedition in 1939 to Antarctica and claimed land about the size of the German Reich. Also southamerica seems very likely and the falkland war gets a rather new twist ;)


Where is there said to be an entrance to the underworld? The north pole...?


Yes maybe also northpole, southpole, andes, himalaya also claimed to be entrance points... it is claimed when marco polo came to tibet, the tibetans asked why the white people came by ship, instead as usual from inner earth. Also the Dalai Lama is claimed to be to keeper of the entrance to Shambala. The nazis did an expedition to tibet as well. The movie "7 years of tibet" tells the story a bit.


Who lives in the underworld? Vishnu, the Aryans of alien origin, links to atlantis and the stories of hyperborea....?

It is claimed aryans inhabit inner earth,yes atlantis and hyperborea links in as well


So did the nazis meet a vishnu like alien? Did they make peaceful first contact with this alien race at the north pole or did they defeat them and take their technology for themselves?


They probably even escaped to the moon in 1944, later mars.
Some claim they escaped to andromeda with the "Andromeda Device", a cigar shaped carrier ship.
They might found a lost civilization at southpole/inner earth.

Sounds like SG1, huh?

[rydeon]

Well, we might be finding out soon just what the real deal is:

Deposits are due for the expedition on a nuclear ice breaker. Apparently a claimed 'illuminati' group offered to pay in full but they wanted complete navigational control. The group refused.

Here's the vid. It's been planned for a while. I hope they get it going. This hollow earth theory needs answering once and for all!

North Pole Inner Earth Expedition - YouTube

http://www.npiee.org/

http://www.ourhollowearth.com/ExpeditionUpdate.htm

[tinyint]

Well, we might be finding out soon just what the real deal is:

Deposits are due for the expedition on a nuclear ice breaker. Apparently a claimed 'illuminati' group offered to pay in full but they wanted complete navigational control. The group refused.

Here's the vid. It's been planned for a while. I hope they get it going. This hollow earth theory needs answering once and for all!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOv02YPVn9I

http://www.npiee.org/

http://www.ourhollowearth.com/ExpeditionUpdate.htm

In my personal opinion, hollow earth has been proven already by ancient scripture, legends and last but not least the nazi expeditions to antarctica, andes and tibet.

It is rumored they have found the entrance at antarctica, who knows except black projects people? :(

I think, they will never officially admit or prove it, since it is again deeply connected with US national security state.

base211 (http://de.base211.ru/) fake or real? :confused:

[bard]

In my personal opinion, hollow earth has been proven already by ancient scripture, legends and last but not least the nazi expeditions to antarctica, andes and tibet.

It is rumored they have found the entrance at antarctica, who knows except black projects people? :(

coordinates: 66 36' 12.58"S 99 43' 12.72"E (check with Google Earth)

http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/a21595deeb8a.jpg

[deca]

the nazi f off to the USA ..operation paper clip.....to make the big bomb and carry on with there experiments

Operation Paperclip - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://www.ufodigest.com/news/0208/images/Flying-Saucer.jpg

Kenneth Arnold's "Flying Saucer" (above)

Compared with Nazi's Flying Wing design

why do you lot take some truth and end up believing the subverted parts added to cover up the real truth and make it all sound absurd


MKultra......(MK) Mind Kontrolle
The American Nazi Project of Mind Control
The American Nazi Project of Mind Control - YouTube


no UFO`s = alien abductions are MILAB militray abductions

http://www.susanblackmore.co.uk/journalism/ns94.html
Alien abduction
One last thought. Persinger applied a silent and invisible force to my brain and so created a specific experience for me. He claimed he was imitating the basic sequences of the processes of memory and perception and that, by varying those sequences, he could control my experience. Could he have done it from a distance? Could it be done on a wider scale? Suddenly prospects of magnetic mind control seem an awful lot worse than the idea of being abducted by imaginary aliens.

[tinyint]

MKultra......(MK) Mind Kontrolle
The American Nazi Project of Mind Control
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_S8ExNBjvM


no UFO`s = alien abductions are MILB militray abductions

http://www.susanblackmore.co.uk/journalism/ns94.html
Alien abduction

Agreed.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=97442

The soviets had similar programs, and I think they were even better with it.

[deca]

http://www.thelosthaven.co.uk/Milabs.html


book is to inform us that ‘not all is as it seems’ ! We are informed that many
UFO abductions are the result of Military personnel, men in business suits,
or men in white lab coats each who are abducting individuals either ‘to’


A)

obtain as much information from the abductee as to what Transpired during their
abduction i.e., to obtain any ‘technology Or advanced information as they possible
can which could Potentially be used by their country (America) to advance their
Own technology from the ‘abducters’ OR

B)
American Government ‘agencies’ are themselves imprinting false and misleading
information into the minds of the unsuspecting public to further the cause/belief
that UFO abductions/aliens are a reality, this is to steer the public's belief
away from what really is going on, i.e., a new Stealth technology or advanced
black budget technology to which they, (the Americans) do not wish the public
to learn about, and they are more than happy for this technology to be camouflaged
under the guise of ‘alien abductions’.


To me its obviosly B) .....

[tinyint]

To me its obviosly B) .....

To me too.

Bases 5 Part 1 Mind Control with Rauni Kilde - YouTube

Bases 5 Part 2 Mind Control UFOs & Swine Flue - YouTube

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

Watch out for the other Bases Series interviews... very interesting. ;)

[rodin]

Here is an excerpt from Chapter 13 (Quantum Numerology and Vorticular Physics, Nazi Style) of Joseph Farrell's seminal book "The Reich of the Black Sun":
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

A starting point for entry into this much-maligned aspect of UFOlogy is what German physics actually was doing prior to and during the War under the Nazis. Much has been written of the deleterious effects of Nazi ideology on banning "Jewish physics," i.e., relativity, from German science, so this will not be covered again here. This left quantum mechanics as the only genuine physics that could equally be claimed to be "Aryan" and pursued by Nazi physicists with a vengeance. Quantum mechanics, in the state in which it then existed, could be summarized as having the following emphases and implications for the German scientists involved:

1. The rejection of relativity meant to a certain extent that the pre-relativistic idea of an aether lumeniferous regained some currency, via its quantum mechanics version of zero point energy or vacuum flux. German scientists were therefore not free to pursue relativistic science, but were free to investigate the enigmatic properties of this new "quantum aether." Indeed, with various esoteric and occult doctrines percolating in the background, such as the notion of "vril" energy, and Reichenbach's early and well-known experiments in the 18th century on "life force" energy, the Germans would have been positively encouraged by the underlying ideology to undertake experimental examination of its properties as far as existing technology would allow;

2. Reichenbach's experiments, plus the implications of Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle, may have influenced German scientists to posit a connection between consciousness, quantum physics, and this underlying "quantum aether". The strange Ahnenerbe experiments mentioned earlier would seem to indicate that some such experiments in consciousness were being undertaken;

3. Pre-war standard physics papers by Gerlach had indicated connections between spin and resonance effects;

4. The paradoxes of quantum mechanics had also become known, leading Einstein, Podolsky, and Rosen to posit "quantum loopholes" in relativity's own "velocity of light speed limit" for faster-than-light transference of information;

5. One German physicist of some repute, O.C. Hilgenberg, a student of gravitation expert Walter Gerlach, had taken Gerlach's work one step further, as we shall see;

6. German physicists thus had strong internal impetus as well as external ideological pressures to investigate the properties of rotating media and fields, especially since the results of Georges Sagnac's rotational version of the Michelson-Morley experiment were known to them;

7. The Germans knew of Tesla's extraordinary claims for beaming electric power, as well as of his high voltage direct current impulse experiments which revealed superluminal electro-acoustic longitudinal wave forms;

8. The Germans would likely have known of E.T. Whittaker's pre-relativistic papers, which were a mathematical study of such wave forms.
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

The whole book can be found here:
http://www.thewebfairy.com/missilegate/rfz/swaz/

Again, most of it is pure speculation, but one must wonder..

Another fact that Farrell's does seem to know is that in 1935 a review paper was published
http://prola.aps.org/abstract/RMP/v7/i2/p129_1
on the so called Barnett's effect (a rotating ferromagnetic sample acquires magnetization along the axis of rotation)

German scientists working in Nuclear Physics could have tried to follow up on this research and see if similar effect exists at nuclear level, so that it results in nuclear spin coherence. Throw in some occult connection to alchemy and some luck, and they may have stumbled upon something that was way ahead of their time ;).

This is your key post for this thread. Rest mostly distraction and some of it deliberate

My bold - the Germans were not rejecting ideology but a hoax

[coco]

this is spooky hitlers body never found people!

Well, there is the he killed himself and his body was burned on site accepted story; the he killed himself and the Soviets took his body and stored it for a while, then burned it, then cast the ashes down a sewer (or into a river) rumor, and then the story Tinyint speaks of: that he escaped to South America.

If he did escape to South America, it would have been a long and difficult journey for a man in his condition, especially to remain secret for that duration. I assume that he had people attending to him in his state of physical illness during such a journey.

[bard]

Some minor updates here. Most of the stuff found on the web is not to be trusted anyway.

Vril 6

http://listverse.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/nazi-ufo_vril6-tm.jpg

Vril-Odin

http://www.ufohypotheses.com/172%20Nazi%20Vril-Odin%20Enlargement.jpg

and a book

Hitler's Flying Saucers: A Guide to German Flying Discs of the Second World War
by Henry Stevens

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41J4J2YDVAL._SL500_AA240_.jpg

link to free online version: http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ufo_aleman/rfz/index.htm#menu

take it with a grain of salt

[bard]

Now compare the sketch of these Haunebu German craft (the numbers I and III apparently stand for the number of engines of the craft)

http://www.nouvelordremondial.cc/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/hanebu.jpg

http://www.xnetbg.com/new/images/stories/UFO/Haunebu_III_plan.jpg

with the footage of George Adamski:

UFO Adamski footage Analysis! - YouTube

(direct link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EttKw7ROGN8)

Clearly the craft are similar if not identical, the whole Adamski story was a cover-up, the general public was supposed to think that aliens (instead of Germans) were involved.

This footage was allegedly shot in 1965, same craft

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

(direct link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcm9_cuXKhg&feature=related)

[hagbard_celine]

A good movie about the Nazi UFO conspiracy (43 min)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2301623855480311871&q=source%3A006119842228418782502&hl=en

Thanks.:) This subject interests me a lot.

[coco]

Not to take away from the Germans but what about UFO accounts well before the 20th century? Ancient depictions throughout the world?

In relation to ancient depictions of our modern craft, I think some fabric of time and space shenanigans has been or will be going on.

[hagbard_celine]

Not to take away from the Germans but what about UFO accounts well before the 20th century? Ancient depictions throughout the world?

In relation to ancient depictions of our modern craft, I think some fabric of time and space shenanigans has been or will be going on.

People have been reporting UFO sightings for as long as they have been able to do it safely, without being burnt as witches!:eek: But UFO's only entered the public consciousness in the 1940's. Some reckon that this is cultural thing, or was there some change that caused them mto appear more often? The first A-bomb explosions at Trinity and in Japan?;)

[coco]

People have been reporting UFO sightings for as long as they have been able to do it safely, without being burnt as witches!:eek: But UFO's only entered the public consciousness in the 1940's. Some reckon that this is cultural thing, or was there some change that caused them mto appear more often? The first A-bomb explosions at Trinity and in Japan?;)

Good question. Are the UFOs curious about our atomic and nuclear fumblings? I entertain that we are not the quietest planet in the neighborhood and could have fostered their observation. Did we open up some sort of portal with those initial detonations and the tests that followed in peace time? Or did we (humans) start to fly these machines successfully after the war causing more sightings?

[tinyint]

Good question. Are the UFOs curious about our atomic and nuclear fumblings? I entertain that we are not the quietest planet in the neighborhood and could have fostered their observation. Did we open up some sort of portal with those initial detonations and the tests that followed in peace time? Or did we (humans) start to fly these machines successfully after the war causing more sightings?

Good questions.

I think, nuclear explosions distort 'time-space continuum' and thus perhaps 'the source'(the ether, god) simply creation.

Why where UFOs reported throughout the times?
Hmm, three possibilities to me...
1. There are real ET, maybe looking like us, observing the experiment since its beginning
2. The nazis developed technology which enabled them to leave earth and met ET
3. The nazi tech is capable of 'time-travel'(more a sort of interdimesional travel) explaining UFOs in the past

I think there is definitely a connection between nazi tech and 'ET' much covered up with National Security BS.

Consider this drawing for a second...
http://www.samstein.ch/SamStein/BWS/UFOs/Nazi-UFOs/Vril_VII_Plan.jpg

Notice point 1 & 3 states a 'Glocke' or Bell ;)

The bell I think is much more than a propulsion system, more sort of 'god-device' often called Vril-(or Thule) propulsion.

http://www.zamandayolculuk.com/cetinbal/htmldosya1/NaziUFO2.htm

Anybody in here knows turkish with the time to translate?
http://www.zamandayolculuk.com/cetinbal/ZAMANYOLDIKKATINE2.HTM

http://translate.google.de/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.zamandayolculuk.com%2 Fcetinbal%2FZAMANYOLDIKKATINE2.HTM&sl=tr&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8 (rough google translation)

Here is a thread dealing with the implications...
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=102619

[coco]

Good questions.

I think, nuclear explosions distort 'time-space continuum' and thus perhaps 'the source'(the ether, god) simply creation.

Why where UFOs reported throughout the times?
Hmm, three possibilities to me...
1. There are real ET, maybe looking like us, observing the experiment since its beginning
2. The nazis developed technology which enabled them to leave earth and met ET
3. The nazi tech is capable of 'time-travel' explaining UFOs in the past

I think there is definitely a connectin between nazi tech and 'ET' much covered up with National Security BS.

I'll agree with you. As I mentioned earlier, in this thread or another, there have been witness reports of US military jets vanishing from sight in clear, cloudless skies around Area 51 and Dugway proving ground. Are they merely invisible? Was Project Rainbow not in vain after all? Or have those jets entered the fourth dimension capturing the curiosity and wonder of ancient man?

http://i46.tinypic.com/2ltrbf5.jpg

[bard]

I am not excluding the existence of possible connections between the modern day UFO sightings on one side, and our ancient past on the other, or even with extraterrestrial sources.

There are a couple of points to consider:

1) It is well known that before the war the Nazi State organized expeditions to Tibet, Sumer and Antarctica. Allegedly they were looking for ancient secret knowledge in general and one related to military technology in particular.
I am particularly amused by the Antarctica expedition since there should not be anything there, just a desolate land covered with ice and snow, yet the Google Earth picture of the bunker with iron-cast lid on page 2 indicates otherwise. Maybe Antarctica hides the remains of an ancient advanced civilization and the Germans found out about it.

2) Prior to the war, Germany was the most advanced technologically country on Earth. In particular, the German researchers were leaders in the area of aerodynamics, rocket propulsion and quantum/nuclear physics.

Now consider the following:

The George Adamski photo circa 1953 (allegedly a fake)

http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/6625/adamski.jpg

The photo taken by Stephen Derbishire 1954 (also proclaimed a fake by the "experts")

http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/6268/conistcumb.jpg

The two pictures when projected orthographically yield objects very similar to the Haunebu craft:

http://img532.imageshack.us/img532/903/projection.jpg

The haze surrounding the Derbishire photo is due to the plasma shield around the craft. This explain the small radar signature:
Plasma stealth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The humming sound is due to corona discharge, the craft apparently uses high-voltage pulses. The aether (the quantum vacuum) is similar to a virtual turbulent plasma, which is incompressible under normal conditions (it propagates only transverse EM waves). Under extreme conditions one can possibly generate variations on the energy density of the aether and they may be used to propel a vehicle the same way a jet engine generates propulsion by compressing the air and ejecting it. At least this is my current working hypothesis.

[tinyint]

The haze surrounding the Derbishire photo is due to the plasma shield around the craft. This explain the small radar signature:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasma_stealth

The humming sound is due to corona discharge, the craft apparently uses high-voltage pulses. The aether (the quantum vacuum) is similar to a virtual turbulent plasma, which is incompressible under normal conditions (it propagates only transverse EM waves). Under extreme conditions one can possibly generate variations on the energy density of the aether and they may be used to propel a vehicle the same way a jet engine generates propulsion by compressing the air and ejecting it. At least this is my current working hypothesis.

Yes, this plasma stealth thingy seems to be connected with it.
The russian are claimed to have such thing built in their new 'prototype' MIG 1.44 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan_Project_1.44) and Su-47 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-47).

Here some more stuff...

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=102129&page=4

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=102619

[coco]

Hmm

Plasma stealth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Plasma stealth is a proposed process that uses ionized gas (plasma) to reduce the radar cross section (RCS) of an aircraft. Interactions between electromagnetic radiation and ionized gas have been extensively studied for a variety of purposes, including the possible concealment of aircraft from radar that plasma stealth theorizes. While it is theoretically possible to reduce an aircraft's RCS by wrapping the airframe in plasma, it may be very difficult to do so in practice. Various methods might plausibly be able to produce a layer or cloud of plasma around an airframe, from "simple" electrostatic or RF discharges to more exotic possibilities like laser-produced plasmas [1].

[tinyint]

Hmm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasma_stealth

Plasma stealth is a proposed process that uses ionized gas (plasma) to reduce the radar cross section (RCS) of an aircraft. Interactions between electromagnetic radiation and ionized gas have been extensively studied for a variety of purposes, including the possible concealment of aircraft from radar that plasma stealth theorizes. While it is theoretically possible to reduce an aircraft's RCS by wrapping the airframe in plasma, it may be very difficult to do so in practice. Various methods might plausibly be able to produce a layer or cloud of plasma around an airframe, from "simple" electrostatic or RF discharges to more exotic possibilities like laser-produced plasmas [1].

I think, this plasma stealth thingy is just another field of research, uhmm made already and begun some ~ > 70 years ago.
So I am not sure weather the real purpose of this is stealth or more than indeed physically vanishing. Out of phase, so to speak. :)

[rodin]

I am not excluding the existence of possible connections between the modern day UFO sightings on one side, and our ancient past on the other, or even with extraterrestrial sources.

There are a couple of points to consider:

1) It is well known that before the war the Nazi State organized expeditions to Tibet, Sumer and Antarctica. Allegedly they were looking for ancient secret knowledge in general and one related to military technology in particular.
I am particularly amused by the Antarctica expedition since there should not be anything there, just a desolate land covered with ice and snow, yet the Google Earth picture of the bunker with iron-cast lid on page 2 indicates otherwise. Maybe Antarctica hides the remains of an ancient advanced civilization and the Germans found out about it.

2) Prior to the war, Germany was the most advanced technologically country on Earth. In particular, the German researchers were leaders in the area of aerodynamics, rocket propulsion and quantum/nuclear physics.

Now consider the following:

The George Adamski photo circa 1953 (allegedly a fake)

http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/6625/adamski.jpg

The photo taken by Stephen Derbishire 1954 (also proclaimed a fake by the "experts")

http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/6268/conistcumb.jpg

The two pictures when projected orthographically yield objects very similar to the Haunebu craft:

http://img532.imageshack.us/img532/903/projection.jpg

The haze surrounding the Derbishire photo is due to the plasma shield around the craft. This explain the small radar signature:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasma_stealth

The humming sound is due to corona discharge, the craft apparently uses high-voltage pulses. The aether (the quantum vacuum) is similar to a virtual turbulent plasma, which is incompressible under normal conditions (it propagates only transverse EM waves). Under extreme conditions one can possibly generate variations on the energy density of the aether and they may be used to propel a vehicle the same way a jet engine generates propulsion by compressing the air and ejecting it. At least this is my current working hypothesis.

Now THAT is an interesting post. Very

Of course if faked both models could have been sculpted using the NAZI designs - or even be the same model in some sort of collaborative hoax

But just say there is something in it...

I moved Dimensions thread here because it fits the section heading. It suggests there is an inertial gravity field created by rotating mass. Perhaps the NAZIs learned how to harness this and put it to work?

Now how to accelerate mass a lot? To maybe something like a fraction of so-called relativistic speeds (really just light speed)? Well doing it mechanically would be impossible because the mass would fly apart. But what about making a plasma torus accelerated by electromagnetic field?

Did the NAZIs come up with particle accelerators first?

And why were U boats found with mercury cargoes? Mercury is heavy, and can be made into plasma....

Hmmm...

[tinyint]

Now THAT is an interesting post. Very

Of course if faked both models could have been sculpted using the NAZI designs - or even be the same model in some sort of collaborative hoax

But just say there is something in it...

I moved Dimensions thread here because it fits the section heading. It suggests there is an inertial gravity field created by rotating mass. Perhaps the NAZIs learned how to harness this and put it to work?

Now how to accelerate mass a lot? To maybe something like a fraction of so-called relativistic speeds (really just light speed)? Well doing it mechanically would be impossible because the mass would fly apart. But what about making a plasma torus accelerated by electromagnetic field?

Did the NAZIs come up with particle accelerators first?

And why were U boats found with mercury cargoes? Mercury is heavy, and can be made into plasma....

Hmmm...

More than just that.

Igor Witkowski interview about Wunderwaffen and the Bell...
Igor Witkowski - Interview über die "Glocke", Teil 1 - YouTube
...media bandit
Igor Witkowski - Interview über die "Glocke", Teil 2 - YouTube
...media bandit
...
...
Rodin, you should really read Farrells "SS Brotherhood of the Bell" to get into Mercury, Walter Gerlach, Dr Schuman etc...
It worth a read, also recommended Igor Witkowski, Nick Cook, where Farrell draws from. This is available english literature concerning the topic.

Also, have a look in here...

william lyne-- occult aether physics (http://www.rialian.com/rnboyd/william_lyne_occult_aether_physics.pdf)

You can also read the ProGerman thread (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=106366), I posted many researchers in the field of plasma physics, atomic bomb development and electro magnetism.

[orage]

I agree, the SS Brotherhood of the Bell is fast becoming a seminal work. On its own, it is an omnibus of many other researcher's work, cited in big chunks. But the argument for an alternate, hidden physics, and an argument that merges myth, alchemy and science takes it much further.

It was a real eye-opener for me, and I'm still digging.

[tinyint]

I agree, the SS Brotherhood of the Bell is fast becoming a seminal work.

It was a real eye-opener for me, and I'm still digging.

In my view, the truth lurks everywhere and it seems it is breaking through, veiled in decades(even hundreds of years?) of darkness and lies.

The changes to come are already literally graspable.

Exiting times because we all will win this time :)

[bard]

Now here is an interesting bit:

http://www.thelivingmoon.com/41pegasus/04images/Von_Braun/Braun_Antarctica.gif

During the local summer of 1966/67, von Braun participated in a field trip to Antarctica, organized for him and several other members of top NASA management. The goal of the field trip was to determine whether the experience gained by US scientific and technological community during the exploration of Antarctic wastelands would be useful for the manned exploration of space. Von Braun was mainly interested in management of the scientific effort on Antarctic research stations, logistics, habitation and life support, and in using the barren Antarctic terrain like the glacial dry valleys to test the equipment that one day would be used to look for signs of life on Mars and other worlds.

source: Wernher von Braun - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

mind you that this was before the Moon landing

[cathar]

Joseph P.Farrell will be on CoasttocoastAM on sunday night 3/14/10 with Ian Punnet...

The 3rd Reich is still alive & kicking IMO...

[tinyint]

Joseph P.Farrell will be on CoasttocoastAM on sunday night 3/14/10 with Ian Punnet...

The 3rd Reich is still alive & kicking IMO...

This is correct, have a read here... it will explain the judical state.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=93436

Thanks for the info.

PS: even more here http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=102974

[rodin]

Now here is an interesting bit:

http://www.thelivingmoon.com/41pegasus/04images/Von_Braun/Braun_Antarctica.gif

During the local summer of 1966/67, von Braun participated in a field trip to Antarctica, organized for him and several other members of top NASA management. The goal of the field trip was to determine whether the experience gained by US scientific and technological community during the exploration of Antarctic wastelands would be useful for the manned exploration of space. Von Braun was mainly interested in management of the scientific effort on Antarctic research stations, logistics, habitation and life support, and in using the barren Antarctic terrain like the glacial dry valleys to test the equipment that one day would be used to look for signs of life on Mars and other worlds.

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wernher_von_Braun

mind you that this was before the Moon landing

he was collecting meteorites later to be presented as 'moon rocks'

[rodin]

I agree, the SS Brotherhood of the Bell is fast becoming a seminal work. On its own, it is an omnibus of many other researcher's work, cited in big chunks. But the argument for an alternate, hidden physics, and an argument that merges myth, alchemy and science takes it much further.

It was a real eye-opener for me, and I'm still digging.

I would be interested to see where this leads - I have not read the book but know a bit about the subject

[rodin]

Good questions.

I think, nuclear explosions distort 'time-space continuum' and thus perhaps 'the source'(the ether, god) simply creation.

Why where UFOs reported throughout the times?

I think space-time being a construct that can be warped is far-fetched. Plus look where the idea comes from, and when. And I think I have the why... or part of it.

NAZI tech ignored relativity so whatever they were working towards - if they succeeded it was because they were great engineers + not restricted to 'official' science

Why UFO's in the past?

More possible reasons

Natural Phenomena
Records of sightings have been faked
'Evidence' has been faked

[tinyint]

I think space-time being a construct that can be warped is far-fetched. Plus look where the idea comes from, and when. And I think I have the why... or part of it.

NAZI tech ignored relativity so whatever they were working towards - if they succeeded it was because they were great engineers + not restricted to 'official' science

Why UFO's in the past?

More possible reasons

Natural Phenomena
Records of sightings have been faked
'Evidence' has been faked

Yep, exactly. They simply searched a way out of the relativistic one way street, and most probably have found something.
There is more and more evidence for that.
Their secret tech and research (attempts) focused on implosion.


I agree with your 'space-time' conclusion.
I was gonna say, it somehow disturbs massively. Some claim 'souls' get destroyed by atomic explosions, the only way to destroy them.

[king triad]

The Nazis were working with the greys..after WW2 the USA stole the whole program and moved it to the western united states..

[coco]

Thank you very much for the book suggestions. :)

I received my copy of 'The SS Brotherhood of the Bell' and 'Reich of the Black Sun' just this morning. I am wrapping up a John Perkins book at the moment and when finished, I will then read one of the new books while my father reads the other.

Both seem promising, and will read both but I hope my father reads 'Reich' first so 'The Bell' will be available to me. :D Of course, nothing says I cannot read it also so long as I maintain our respective bookmarks.

Question: Since you know I have not read 'The Bell', what are your thoughts that it could have been a Uranium 223 breeder? There is buzz on the net about this.

[rodin]

The Nazis were working with the greys..after WW2 the USA stole the whole program and moved it to the western united states..

I don't think so

The German UFO's looked very 'of their time' - in style and construction. It was the PRINCIPLE they worked on I think could be interesting

Inertial mass was understood even by (I think) Newton

[hagbard_celine]

Good question. Are the UFOs curious about our atomic and nuclear fumblings? I entertain that we are not the quietest planet in the neighborhood and could have fostered their observation. Did we open up some sort of portal with those initial detonations and the tests that followed in peace time? Or did we (humans) start to fly these machines successfully after the war causing more sightings?

I've heard that UFO's congregate around nuclear weapons installations. I myself took a photo in 1998, with a polaroid fun camera, on the hills above Gareloch on the Firth of Clyde, Scotland. On the right is the Royal Navy Trident Base HMS Neptune... and high in the sky you can see a small, dark wedge-like object. But Lyall Watson's "Cosmic Nanny" was watching me! I can't find the bloody photo!:mad::o

[coco]

I've heard that UFO's congregate around nuclear weapons installations. I myself took a photo in 1998, with a polaroid fun camera, on the hills above Gareloch on the Firth of Clyde, Scotland. On the right is the Royal Navy Trident Base HMS Neptune... and high in the sky you can see a small, dark wedge-like object. But Lyall Watson's "Cosmic Nanny" was watching me! I can't find the bloody photo!:mad::o

True, and airports as well so I've heard. Way back in the dark recesses of my memory, I think I heard something about UFO sightings near the cape when we were routinely venturing to the moon. Have only heard little about sightings at shuttle launches. And volcanoes too as I heard they like to buzz about them in Central America.

I must confess I was too excited to wait to read 'The Bell'. I'm splitting my time between Farrell's and Perkins' work now. Farrell mentions something that a few folks suspect as well: Two space programs.

Please do not think that the old style rocket program is ended. When I lived in Florida they were still launching them. I've been in Texas for a little over 2 1/2 years now so this is recent. In fact, I think I saw a video on Chattanova's UFO thread some months back about some people in Florida seeing an ordinary rocket flying. The people who took the vid were surprised and expressed they were not sure what they were seeing. Why? They live in Florida. They're launched routinely.

I lived in West Central Florida and the big rockets and shuttles are launched from the cape, eastward from my then location. Saw them launch all my life. I've even shown children and newcomers where to look to see the launches.

The thing is when it comes to old style rockets - THEY DO NOT ONLY LAUNCH FROM THE EAST IN THE DIRECTON OF THE CAPE. They can come from the direction of Central Florida (eastward but closer) or North Florida. They are not as large as say, the Apollos or Geminis though.

Central and North Florida have military bombing ranges, personally been there on hunts. North Florida also has an Air Force base.

The rockets I saw were not missiles meant to explode a target. Otherwise why would they shoot them such a great distance and risk hitting a land location or a populated island? Sometimes they would fly appearing to follow the circumference of the earth, sometimes the flew as if shooting upward at an angle, not straight up as the Apollos. So what are they doing? The rockets from the cape are usually billed as launching another communications satellite. I know there are supposed to be many satellites up there, one crosses over the house every night, but that's a whole bunch of satellites being sent up.

[bard]

For whatever reason I think that the "bunker" in Antarctica has to play a very important role in this investigation. I checked today on Google Earth and it is still there.

This is the bunker, the size of the opening is about 30m x 15m

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/3348/antarcticabunker.jpg

The closest research station is the Russian station Mirny, about 300km away
The two places are indicated by the red dots joined by the yellow line

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/1193/mirny.jpg

This is a map of the research stations and claimed territories in Antarctica, the approximate location of the bunker is indicated by the fat red dot. It is apparently in Aussie territory.

http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/4026/antarcticregionpol95.jpg

The most interesting fact by far is that there is another interesting location named Bunger Hills, about 60km away from the bunker. What is the place famous for?

The Bunger Hills are located with its center at 66°17′S 100°47′E / 66.283°S 100.783°E / -66.283; 100.783, stretching from 65°58'S to 66°20'S and from 100°20'E to 100°28'E. The Bunger Hills are marked by numerous melt ponds and are nearly bisected by an east-west trending Algae Lake (also known as Lake Figurnoye). Mapped from air photos taken by the United States Navy Operation Highjump (1946-1947) and named by the United States Advisory Committee on Antarctic Names (US-ACAN) for Lieutenant Commander David E. Bunger, United States Navy, plane commander of one of the three USN OpHjp aircraft which engaged in photographic missions along most of the coastal area between 14 E and 164 E. David E. Bunger and members of his crew landed their airplane on an unfrozen lake here in February 1947.

The Bunger Hills are surrounded by glaciers. On the southeast the Bunger Hills is bordered by the steep slopes of the Antarctic ice sheet, on the south and west by outlet glaciers, and on the north by Shackleton Ice Shelf, which separates the area from the open sea. The ice-free area measures 450 km², according to some sources even 750 or 942 km² (though these latter values include a marine area not covered by continental ice or the Shackleton Ice Shelf). The topography is characterized by rugged hills, and there are many freshwater and salt lakes. The largest and deepest lake, Algae Lake (Lake Figurnoye) is 25 km long and up to 137 meters deep. The leader of Operation Highjump, Admiral Richard E. Byrd, famously stated that the Bunger Hills was ‘…one of the most remarkable regions on earth. An island suitable for life had been found in a universe of death.

source: Bunger Hills - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Operation Highjump remains one of the few post war operations with documents still "classified" by the military

read more here: Operation Highjump - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Shortly after the failed Highjump the US Navy launched a second expedition called Operation Windmill:

Operation Windmill (OpWml) was a United States Navy exploration and training mission to Antarctica in 1947–1948. This operation was a follow up to the First Antarctic Development Project which was called Operation Highjump. The expedition was commanded by Commander Gerald L. Ketchum, and his flagship of the expedition was USS Burton Island.


Ladies and gentlemen, I rest my case :D

[jayelowell]

The was acutually a good show on this topic last night on C2C!

[tinyint]

Here is a link to yet another thread...
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1058723143#post1058723143

Ladies and gentlemen, I rest my case :D

My main thesis is:

The whole disclosure thingy is a cover for the escaped faction, since people would find it possibly more believable to accept/fight(?) ET than being told they have been lied on by the disclosers :)

;)

I'll post the new interview as soon as it is up on YT.

[stopthemadness]

Do people honestly believe the Shadow Government would allow Google Earth to show military secrets to average citizens?

Google is Globalist spyware. Always was, always will be. They want to monitor what people search & where they surf.

www.google-watch.org (www.googlewatch.org)

[rodin]

Here is a 1956 official report on antigravity

It is all about electrogravitics. IMO Electrogravitics is the Thermite of antigravity - ie a red herring to divert research from the REAL culprit. Note that this is the last official release - what has transpired since? Also note circular disc UFOs were reported years before this official report

Note also the NUMBER and CALIBRE of institutions listed @ the link - given that antigravity research was only announced to the public as being undertaken by Boeing and others a decade or so ago.

Read this extract VERY carefully

Curiously enough the Germans during the war paid no attention to electrogravitics. This is one line of advance that they did not pioneer in any way and it was basically a U.S. creation. Townsend Brown in electrogravitics is the equivalent of Frank Whittle in gas turbines. This German overlooking of electrostatics is even more surprising when it is remembered how astonishingly advanced and prescient the Germans were in nuclear research. (The modern theory of making thermonuclear weapons without plutonium fission initiators returns to the original German idea that was dismissed, even ridiculed

http://www.padrak.com/ine/INE24.html

Die Glocke - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

two counter rotating heavy discs

Why the mercury?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/55/Pound-coin-floating-in-mercury.jpg/220px-Pound-coin-floating-in-mercury.jpg

Its main distinguishing properties are

1) Very dense
2) Liquid metal

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_(element)

[tinyint]

Here is a 1956 official report on antigravity

It is all about electrogravitics. IMO Electrogravitics is the Thermite of antigravity - ie a red herring to divert research from the REAL culprit. Note that this is the last official release - what has transpired since? Also note circular disc UFOs were reported years before this official report

Note also the NUMBER and CALIBRE of institutions listed @ the link - given that antigravity research was only announced to the public as being undertaken by Boeing and others a decade or so ago.

Read this extract VERY carefully



http://www.padrak.com/ine/INE24.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_Glocke

two counter rotating heavy discs

Why the mercury?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/55/Pound-coin-floating-in-mercury.jpg/220px-Pound-coin-floating-in-mercury.jpg

Its main distinguishing properties are

1) Very dense
2) Liquid metal

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_(element)

Rodin, really you'd do yourself a big favor in reading the wuderwaffen(wonder weapons) and bell stuff. You are neglecting or missing a tidbit of (scientific) history if only focusing on the jews and jewish conspiracy.

When following the link to the quote, I only get this...
ELECTROGRAVITICS SYSTEMS

An examination of electrostatic motion,
dynamic counterbary and barycentric control.

Prepared by:
Gravity Research Group
Aviation Studies (International) Limited
Special Weapons Study Unit
29-31 Cheval Place, Knightsbridge
London, S.W.7. England

Report GRG-013/56 February 1956.

AF Wright Aeronautical Laboratories
Wright-Patterson Air Force Base
Technical Library
Dayton, Ohio 45433

Questionable source. we are talking about never published stuff aka black projects and different physics. A complete parallel (scientific) world.

Wiki won't help in this case. mercury plasma and mercury isotope as base

Maybe Orage could quote a passage on the mercury isotope, since he owns the english original?

Really, very complex and mind blowing stuff, get into it :)

[rodin]

Rodin, really you'd do yourself a big favor in reading the wuderwaffen(wonder weapons) and bell stuff. You are neglecting or missing a tidbit of (scientific) history if only focusing on the jews and jewish conspiracy.

When following the link to the quote, I only get this...


Questionable source. we are talking about never published stuff aka black projects and different physics. A complete parallel (scientific) world.

Wiki won't help in this case. mercury plasma and mercury isotope as base

Maybe Orage could quote a passage on the mercury isotope, since he owns the english original?

Really, very complex and mind blowing stuff, get into it :)

You say mercury isotope. Do you mean that centrifuges (also used for U 235 concentration) are used to isolate one of mercury's isotopes? Which one?

BTW I have read online info on bell and WW

[tinyint]

You say mercury isotope. Do you mean that centrifuges (also used for U 235 concentration) are used to isolate one of mercury's isotopes? Which one?

BTW I have read online info on bell and WW

I try to answer in a nutshell.

The violet-golden substance they used seem to have had a codename..."IRR Serum-525" which was at room temperature like a jelly. It was supposed to be a mercury compound, consisting of Thoriumoxide and Berylliumoxide and more heavy mercury isotopes.
Remember, they were quite busy securing the sources and experimenting with Thorium as well.

So the bell was capable of generating a strong electromagnetic field capable of readjusting/changing the atom's spin axis.

If you want to do this, mercury would be the best to do with, you named the two main reasons.

This had effects on organic material as well, it seems and they were also busy in experimentation of controlling/shielding these effects with rubber and ceramics and they had to renew the shielding every run.

None other than Prof W. Gerlach made, iirc in 1925, a statement concerning transmutation of mercury to gold indeed applied alchemy.

So to answer your question, it's currently not known what the isotopes were. But it seems to hint centrifuges yes.

A thing which is funny...I grew up with some mysterious stories about the "Bienenstock" meaning beehive which seems to be the same as "the Bell".

http://www.taurus-pass.at/imkerei/images/bienenstock.gif

This nickname makes very much sense to me, since the bell supposedly gave a noise like humming bees.

[rodin]

To get to the bottom of this it will be necessary to get as much verifiable information as possible

Then look for a solution never published by a mainstream publisher. That which is MOST HIDDEN...

99% of 'alternative' science is bullshit, even more than 'mainstream' science

[bard]

To understand how the German craft work one must remember that the constructors used physics principles that were known circa 1940s. So my claim is that they used conventional technology but in a new way.

There are three important elements:

1) non-conventional source of DC power (likely based on the Hans Coler generator)

Hans Coler: 'Magnetstromapparat' -
This 'Free-Energy' generator was developed in the 1930's and produced an output of 12 volts. This device is a solid-state unit consisting of only permanent magnets, copper coils and condensers in a static arrangement. A follow-up device called a 'Stromzeuger' was developed by Mr. Coler from which he claimed that with an input of a few watts of power from a dry battery, an output of 6,000 watts could be obtained indefinitely.
The Stromzeuger device consists of an arrangement of magnets, flat coils, and copper plates with a primary circuit energized by a small battery. A report was produced by the British Intelligence Objectives Subcommittee (Final Report #1043, Item #31) after WW2.

2) mercury-vortex turbine coupled with a conventional AC electrical generator
Consider an ordinary hydro-turbine. The available power is linearly proportional to the density of the fluid that is used. If one replaces water with mercury, the power can increase theoretically by a factor of 13.6 (the ratio of the density of mercury to that of water). In practice, one must take into account the different viscosity of the two fluids, so the amplification factor will be probably less but not much less than let's say a factor 10.

Here is my drawing representing the cross section of the mercury vortex turbine:

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/6781/mercurygenerator.png

The strip on the circumference is maintained at high temperature possibly from heaters that are powered up using the Hans Coler DC generator. The hot fluid moves away from the hot strip due to convection and it is fed into the blades of the turbine making it spin. The fluid must be re-circulated somehow but this can be accomplished with some clever design, I believe, probably by ejecting the converging flow axially along the axle of the turbine, then the cooled down fluid is re-injected close to the rim. The device is some kind of a hybrid between a heat engine and a hydro-turbine. The spinning turbine is coupled to a conventional AC electrical generator.

3) high-voltage device (likely Tesla coil or Van Der Graaf generator)

The AC generator is used to produce high-voltage pulses, both the Tesla coil (a resonance air-core transformer) and the Van Der Graaf generator can produce voltages in the range of tens of mega-volts.

Now, the German engineers probably believed in the concept of aether - a natural medium, a virtual plasma of some sort that exists in a permanently chaotic turbulent state. Such turbulent fluid-like media can support transverse waves. But plasmas in general can support also longitudinal waves - waves of rarefaction and compression of the energy density. My guess is that the constructors decided to build the EM analog of an ordinary high-pressure compressor (like the one used in jet engines). The analog of a compressor would be a capacitor (possibly asymmetric), since the electrodynamic analog of pressure difference is voltage. So the main engines of the craft were probably operating much like modern jet engines, but instead of hot gases, they are manipulating the energy density of the quantum vacuum (the aether).

Some indirect supporting evidence:

- Back in the days, J. J. Thomson and others, while experimenting with electrovacuum tubes had to deal with a peculiar problem - they could not get rid of the hydrogen in the tubes, no matter how well they will suck the air out. While the concentration of other gases would eventually decrease (some were probably contained in the metal electrodes to begin with) the hydrogen would constantly re-appear. Where was all this hydrogen coming from? Probably some positive-negative pairs of virtual particles got excited and lifted from the zero-point ocean to turn into hydrogen (even if briefly just to give spectroscopic signature). So the aether is alive, so to speak.

- The mercury vortex turbine seems very similar to the implosion ideas of Victor Schauberger, and we know that he was involved in research for the SS secret projects. I was probably right regarding my speculations on the vortex (swastika) on the Nazi flag.

- There is a video on the net which shows a demonstration due to John Hutchison (Canadian inventor) - a heavy ball floating above the ground. Hutchison is using Tesla coils in most of his experiments.

- The red/orange color normally associated with UFO sightings clearly illustrates a corona discharge in the air surrounding the craft. The plasma shield accompanying the craft is more of a by-product of the mode of operation than a method to reduce the radar signature. Again, the hissing/humming sound indicates some kind of high-voltage device is in use.


OK then, enough speculations. You boys owe me a beer :D

[hagbard_celine]

.

I must confess I was too excited to wait to read 'The Bell'. I'm splitting my time between Farrell's and Perkins' work now. Farrell mentions something that a few folks suspect as well: Two space programs.



What's interesting about what Farrell reports is that the Bell was also nicknamed "Die Bienenstock"- the Beehive. This is because it made a noise like a swarm of bees while operating. Well oddly enough many UFO witnesses report that ET craft sound like that too.:eek::confused: I'm not one of these people who belives that UFO's are not alien and that they're all really secret govt technology, but could the Bell be based on the same propulation system, either back-engineered from crashed ET craft or coincidenally invented independently?;)

[hagbard_celine]

For whatever reason I think that the "bunker" in Antarctica has to play a very important role in this investigation. I checked today on Google Earth and it is still there.

This is the bunker, the size of the opening is about 30m x 15m


read more here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Highjump



I've met a man who says these bases in Antarctica are real and he's been inside them. He went to Antarctica in 1947-48 and there were Nazi's still there.

[hagbard_celine]

A thing which is funny...I grew up with some mysterious stories about the "Bienenstock" meaning beehive which seems to be the same as "the Bell".

http://www.taurus-pass.at/imkerei/images/bienenstock.gif

This nickname makes very much sense to me, since the bell supposedly gave a noise like humming bees.

Oddly enough many UFO's make this sound too. See my post above.:confused:

[hagbard_celine]

To understand how the German craft work one must remember that the constructors used physics principles that were known circa 1940s. So my claim is that they used conventional technology but in a new way.


http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/6781/mercurygenerator.png



I heard that in the last days on the war a German U-boat was captured in the Malacca Straits carrying a cargo of mercury.:eek::confused: Where was it going? Nobody knew because the crew said nothing and there were no written orders aboard. Could they have been on their way to South America, or Antarctica?;)

[tinyint]

Oddly enough many UFO's make this sound too. See my post above.:confused:

I know, but it does not wonder me in the slightest.
"UFO" is a completely wrong word they've fed us. Should be IFO.

In a nutshell, but I don't agree with all...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6793517579438435676&hl=de&emb=1#

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1477588402887109490&ei=I1ujS8qoMNnm-AaKq9ShDQ&q=Legend+of+Atlantis+5+-+Battle+of+Armageddon+%282of2%29#

[dreamweaver]

I've met a man who says these bases in Antarctica are real and he's been inside them. He went to Antarctica in 1947-48 and there were Nazi's still there.

What was he doing there? Operation Highjump?

[hagbard_celine]

What was he doing there? Operation Highjump?

No, this was the season after Highjump. He says he went there with a British army unit to invade New Swabia and finish off the Nazis.

He'd also seen action in Germany in 1945 and 46 fighting SS guerillas. The die-hard Nazis carried on an underground war in Germany after the official end of WWII.

[dreamweaver]

No, this was the season after Highjump. He says he went there with a British army unit to invade New Swabia and finish off the Nazis.

He'd also seen action in Germany in 1945 and 46 fighting SS guerillas. The die-hard Nazis carried on an underground war in Germany after the official end of WWII.

I'm new to this particular theory, so be patient with me. ;)

Were the Germans in Antarctica rogue units that decided to carry on fighting despite Germany's surrender? I presume so from what you're saying above.

Are you aware of any contemporary accounts of this or was it all hushed up?

[tinyint]

No, this was the season after Highjump. He says he went there with a British army unit to invade New Swabia and finish off the Nazis.

He'd also seen action in Germany in 1945 and 46 fighting SS guerillas. The die-hard Nazis carried on an underground war in Germany after the official end of WWII.

Yes, the war never ended. Have a look here... no BS, all provable. but nobody knows, except high diplomats etc...

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=93436&highlight=when+is+germany+going+to+be+free

[orage]

I've met a man who says these bases in Antarctica are real and he's been inside them. He went to Antarctica in 1947-48 and there were Nazi's still there.

No, this was the season after Highjump. He says he went there with a British army unit to invade New Swabia and finish off the Nazis.

He'd also seen action in Germany in 1945 and 46 fighting SS guerillas. The die-hard Nazis carried on an underground war in Germany after the official end of WWII.

British commando action? Does your man's story match any of this report?

We were informed that we were to investigate "anomalous" activities around the Mühlig-Hoffmann Mountains from the British base in Maudheim. Antarctica, so we were told, was "Britain's secret war". We were then briefed on British activities in the South Pole during the war.

We sat intrigued as to what was being divulged; none of us had heard anything so fascinating or frightening. It was not common knowledge that the Nazis had been to Antarctica in 1938 and 1939, and even less known was the fact that Britain began to set up secret bases around Antarctica in response. The one we were to visit, Maudheim, was the biggest and most important as well as the most clandestine Antarctic base of them all. The reason for its importance was the fact that it was within 200 miles of where the Nazis had supposedly built their Antarctic base.

We sat there stunned, but still the mystery deepened. We were told about German activity in the Southern Ocean around Antarctica. We were also informed that an inestimable number of U-boats were missing and unaccounted for; but worse, some of those that had surrendered months after the War had ended fuelled even more speculation.

British forces had captured three of the biggest names in the Nazi party—Hess, Himmler and Dönitz—and with their captures Britain was given information that was not going to be shared with Russia or the United States. That information compelled Britain to act alone, and we were spearheading that operation.

We were told in no specific terms what was expected of us and what Britain expected us to find on Antarctica. Britain had more than a strong suspicion that the Germans had built a secret base and had spirited many of the unaccounted Nazis away from the turmoil in Europe.

much more at http://antarctica.greyfalcon.us/britain.html

[hagbard_celine]

Yes, the war never ended. Have a look here... no BS, all provable. but nobody knows, except high diplomats etc...

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=93436&highlight=when+is+germany+going+to+be+free

Thanks.:)

[hagbard_celine]

British commando action? Does your man's story match any of this report?



much more at http://antarctica.greyfalcon.us/britain.html

Yes. Very similar. I remember this article being in Nexus and was after I wrote about it on a forum that this bloke got in touch with me.

[orage]

Yes. Very similar. I remember this article being in Nexus and was after I wrote about it on a forum that this bloke got in touch with me.

Thanks, I've been looking to find anything corroborating the British commando story. That'll be my night reading :)

[dreamweaver]

Yes. Very similar. I remember this article being in Nexus and was after I wrote about it on a forum that this bloke got in touch with me.

Did he give you any info that corroborated his story? Regiment he was with etc?

[coco]

Yes, the war never ended. Have a look here... no BS, all provable. but nobody knows, except high diplomats etc...

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=93436&highlight=when+is+germany+going+to+be+free

Though I am still reading 'The Bell', the book underlines my suspicions that old Nazism ideology never died. It moved. And it's taken on a somewhat different appearance and a much more insidious approach rather than the old overt one used. And it could not have been successful unless there were sympathizers in the rest of the West.

Here is an example. It probably isn't the best one, but it shows how obstacles can be overcome with the right people with the right authority, circumventing the existing system to introduce new elements:

(Excerpt)
http://huntsville.about.com/library/blank/blvonbraun3.htm

At the end of the war the Army had automatically rejected anyone who belonged to the Nazi party or the SS. After a few months this was changed when they realized that 1 out of 4 adult males in Germany had belonged to the party and many people had held honorary memberships in the SS and other organizations. To have excluded everyone in this classification would have made the recruitment of specialists virtually impossible.

The State Department, however, insisted on strict interpretation of the prior policy.

The JIA then developed a plan to sanitize the records. A General in the United States Army approached J. Edgar Hoover and explained how critical it was that von Braun remain in this country. Hoover then ordered his agents to begin their own investigation.

In conjunction with the FBI, Army Intelligence and the JIA, von Braun's background was carefully gone over, with many questionable matters deleted or changed. Derogatory statements were ignored, or reinvestigated, until the findings suited the Army's purpose.

El Paso Division, FBI

Confidential

It is noted that XXX made statements to the effect that von Braun was, in his opinion, an avowed Nazi party member and that his opinion is based on von Braun's actions and talk and the personal impression he gained from conversation with von Braun. He also stated that he had learned from British Intelligence that von Braun held a commission in the SS and was personally decorated by Hitler for his work on the V-2.

El Paso Division, FBI

Confidential

In view of the information contained therein reflecting that XXX has no definite information ... no further investigation in this case is being conducted and it will remain in a closed status in this office.

The new dossiers, once they had been changed, were resubmitted to the State Department. Several of the Germans, after learning of the changes and fearing repercussions in the future, vehemently protested. The last thing they wanted were to be accused of lying at some future date.

Although it is impossible to know exactly what transpired, von Braun evidently had reservations too, as in the end he did not even sign his "new affidavit."

"We were told to not say anything," one German recalled. "If anything ever came up, they said they would take care of it."

[coco]

What's interesting about what Farrell reports is that the Bell was also nicknamed "Die Bienenstock"- the Beehive. This is because it made a noise like a swarm of bees while operating. Well oddly enough many UFO witnesses report that ET craft sound like that too.:eek::confused: I'm not one of these people who belives that UFO's are not alien and that they're all really secret govt technology, but could the Bell be based on the same propulation system, either back-engineered from crashed ET craft or coincidenally invented independently?;)

The great minds at the time and preceding, discovered and reasoned many things that to them were simple, too us (me at least) is boggling. I can't give all credit away to the aliens, it would be a cold and disrespectful slap in the face to Man's intellect. I do think reverse engineering took/takes place on alien artifacts though.

I think the scientists employed knowledge discovered by Man, knowledge that is a constant in the universe, thus also employed by extraterrestrial craft engineers. I have no proof of my claim, just my thought.

[orage]

Regarding the beehive, it also figures prominently as a masonic symbol.

http://www.andrewgough.com/P3004.jpghttp://3.bp.blogspot.com/_-zVG_fRCEtU/R4ekri37LnI/AAAAAAAAAwc/inFjL5XBttk/s400/Beehive.JPG

I know there are explanations to what it means, industriousness, queen bee & worker drones etc. However, symbols operate on multiple levels, from the physical to the sublime.

http://www.themasonictrowel.com/Articles/Symbolism/general_files/the_beehive_as_focal_point/the_beehive_as_focal_point_files/image003.jpg

Just another association, see if it resonates.

[tinyint]

Regarding the beehive, it also figures prominently as a masonic symbol.

http://www.andrewgough.com/P3004.jpghttp://3.bp.blogspot.com/_-zVG_fRCEtU/R4ekri37LnI/AAAAAAAAAwc/inFjL5XBttk/s400/Beehive.JPG

I know there are explanations to what it means, industriousness, queen bee & worker drones etc. However, symbols operate on multiple levels, from the physical to the sublime.

http://www.themasonictrowel.com/Articles/Symbolism/general_files/the_beehive_as_focal_point/the_beehive_as_focal_point_files/image003.jpg

Just another association, see if it resonates.

A supposed quote of a man, I don't quote often...

If the bee disappears from the surface of the earth, man would have no more than four years to live. No more bees, no more pollination ... no more men!

Funny in this context, isn't it?

[coco]

Excerpt from The SS Brotherhood of the Bell:

"And it highlights the two space programs hypothesis in yet another fashion, for one would also think it safe to assume that if the USAF had been able to make head or tail of German anti-gravity, they would not have bothered with the same old methods at Cape Kennedy three decades afterwards."

Exactly my question.

Anyway, this post serves both as a statement of point and a bump. I shall continue studying the book.

[rodin]

I think you are being misled by the Theory of Relativity Hoax

I also think I am beginning to understand what is going on

I will explain the physics in Dimensions once I have a bit more or a handle on it

Meanwhile 2 links

http://www.handpen.com/Bio/gravity.htm

http://www.americanantigravity.com/documents/The-New-Nazi-Bell.pdf

IMO you must read between the lines

[orage]

V2 videos (http://www.v2rocket.com/start/others/aud_vid.html)

[coco]

V2 videos (http://www.v2rocket.com/start/others/aud_vid.html)

I cannot say that I have seen so many successful V2 launches. Perhaps others have, but I have not. I have seen few successful launches and numerous failed ones.

[coco]

Teleportation -- possible only within the realm of Science Fiction?

Michio Kaku, physicist and author of "Physics of the Impossible," says it is already a reality.

Another great selection of the larger interview.

Michio Kaku on Teleportation - YouTube

Caesium - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Caesium or cesium is the chemical element with the symbol Cs and atomic number 55. It is a soft, silvery-gold alkali metal with a melting point of 28 °C (83 °F), which makes it one of only five metals that are liquid at or near room temperature.[note 1] Caesium has physical and chemical properties similar to those of rubidium and potassium. The metal is extremely reactive and pyrophoric, reacting with water even at −116 °C. It is the least electronegative element that has stable isotopes, of which it has only one, caesium-133. This is mined mostly from pollucite, while the radioisotopes, especially caesium-137, are extracted from waste produced by nuclear reactors.

The two German chemists Robert Bunsen and Gustav Kirchhoff discovered it in 1860 by the newly developed method of flame spectroscopy. The first small-scale applications for caesium have been as "getter" in vacuum tubes and in photoelectric cells. In 1967, a frequency of caesium-133 was used to define the second by the International System of Units. Since then it has been widely used in atomic clocks. Since the 1990s, the largest application of the element has been as caesium formate for drilling fluids. It has a range of applications in the production of electricity, in electronics, and in chemistry. The radioactive isotope caesium-137, with a half-life of about 30 years, is used in medical applications, industrial gauges, and hydrology. While the element has a mild chemical toxicity, the radioisotopes present a high health risk in case of radiation leaks and has been named a hazardous material .

Beryllium - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Beryllium is the chemical element with the symbol Be and atomic number 4.

Beryllium has one of the highest melting points of the light metals. It has exceptional elastic rigidity (Young's modulus 287 GPa). The modulus of elasticity of beryllium is approximately 50% greater than that of steel. The combination of this modulus plus beryllium's relatively low density gives it an unusually fast sound conduction speed at standard conditions (about 12.9 km/s). Other significant properties are the high values for specific heat (1925 J·kg−1·K−1) and thermal conductivity (216 W·m−1·K−1), which make beryllium the metal with the best heat dissipation characteristics per unit weight. In combination with the relatively low coefficient of linear thermal expansion (11.4 × 10−6 K−1), these characteristics ensure that beryllium demonstrates a unique degree of dimensional stability under conditions of thermal loading.[10]

At standard temperature and pressures beryllium resists oxidation when exposed to air (its ability to scratch glass is due to the formation of a thin layer of the hard oxide BeO). It resists corrosion by concentrated nitric acid.[11]

[edit] Nuclear

Beryllium has a large scattering cross section for high-energy neutrons, thus effectively slowing the neutrons to the thermal energy range where the cross section is low (0.008 barn). The predominant beryllium isotope 9Be also undergoes a (n,2n) neutron reaction to 8Be, that is beryllium is a neutron multiplier, releasing more neutrons than it absorbs. Beryllium is highly permeable to X-rays, and neutrons are liberated when it is hit by alpha particles.[10]

[edit] Isotopes
Main articles: Isotopes of beryllium and beryllium-10
Plot showing variations in solar activity, including variation in 10Be concentration. Note that the beryllium scale is inverted, so increases on this scale indicate lower beryllium-10 levels

Of beryllium's isotopes, only 9Be is stable and the others are relatively unstable or rare. It is thus a mononuclidic element.

Cosmogenic 10Be is produced in the atmosphere by cosmic ray spallation of oxygen and nitrogen. Cosmogenic 10Be accumulates at the soil surface, where its relatively long half-life (1.36 million years) permits a long residence time before decaying to 10B. Thus, 10Be and its daughter products have been used to examine soil erosion, soil formation from regolith, the development of lateritic soils, as well as variations in solar activity and the age of ice cores. Solar activity is inversely correlated with 10Be production, because solar wind decreases flux of galactic cosmic rays which reach Earth.

Nuclear explosions also form 10Be by a reaction of fast neutrons with 13C in the carbon dioxide in air. This is one of the historical indicators of past activity at nuclear test sites.[12]

The fact that 7Be and 8Be have very short half-lives has profound cosmological consequences. Elements heavier than beryllium could not be produced by nuclear fusion in the Big Bang. This is due to the lack of sufficient time during the Big Bang nucleosynthesis phase to produce carbon by fusion of 4He nuclei and the very low concentrations of available 8Be. Astronomer Fred Hoyle first showed that the energy levels of 8Be and 12C allow carbon production by the triple-alpha process in helium-fueled stars where more synthetic time is available, thus making life possible from the supernova "ash" from these stars. (See also Big Bang nucleosynthesis).[13]

7Be decays by electron capture, therefore its decay rate is dependent upon its electron configuration – a rare occurrence in nuclear decay.[14]

The shortest-lived known isotope of beryllium is 13Be which decays through neutron emission. It has a half-life of 2.7 × 10−21 second. 6Be is also very short-lived with a half-life of 5.0 × 10−21 second.[11]

The exotic isotopes 11Be and 14Be are known to exhibit a nuclear halo.[15]

[tinyint]

"We were told to not say anything," one German recalled. "If anything ever came up, they said they would take care of it."

They, the question is, who is it?

I think no publicly known people or entity.

Neither probably the US military... consider this

eg Nurflügler, the other high tech branch at that time which obviously the US captured, as well as rocket and early guided missile approaches.

Horten IX around 1944!
http://www.pilotenbunker.de/Unbek_Helden/Ziller_Erwin/ho_ix_v1.jpg

Horten GO229 ~1945
http://www.kheichhorn.de/assets/images/Jb01.jpg

YB49 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_YB-49)
http://www.nurflugel.com/Nurflugel/Northrop/yb-49/yb-49_color.jpg

http://www.luft46.com/

http://www.eichhorn.ws/html/flugzeugarchiv.htm

[coco]

The German scientists were discussing the US government would 'take care of things'. The entire article can be found at the link in that post, it's broke up into several parts.

It's interesting to hear Von Braun complain to a friend of just how invasively the FBI spied on him - to what lengths they went to, to continue surveilling him well after he came to the US, worked for the US successfully, and conducted himself in a non threatening way.

[tinyint]

The German scientists were discussing the US government would 'take care of things'. The entire article can be found at the link in that post, it's broke up into several parts.

It's interesting to hear Von Braun complain to a friend of just how invasively the FBI spied on him - to what lengths they went to, to continue surveilling him well after he came to the US, worked for the US successfully, and conducted himself in a non threatening way.

Ah ok.
Still "they"... not the president... JFK tried...

Yes, but I think the FBI had very good reasons to surveil him 24/7.

Thats the reason for surveillance, they never were conviced, probably rightfully believing that. I tend to think, he never worked for the US.

[rodin]

Most of these wunderbar weapons are logical developments of Earth tech

Flying wings for example

This is not future science

V2's are hardly based on secret tech either. The Chinese had rockets how long ago?

We are looking for new physics. The Bell and the NAZI UFO's could be that. The rest is no more innovative than a bouncing bomb.

[tinyint]

Most of these wunderbar weapons are logical developments of Earth tech

Flying wings for example

This is not future science

V2's are hardly based on secret tech either. The Chinese had rockets how long ago?

We are looking for new physics. The Bell and the NAZI UFO's could be that. The rest is no more innovative than a bouncing bomb.

Yes, Rodin, the question is, who is in possession of the "bell tech".

That is what I was trying to say, the US and the SU got 2nd hand stuff, in my view. it directly ties in with the strange court rules and laws.
The tidbit simply vanished.

I agree it is no ET technology we are talking about here. I posted here (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=106366) some stuff and people relating to the bell I think.

Consider it like an techtree branch and the development and direction it took. The foundation have been laid (again?) about 150 years ago, I think.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1058627984&postcount=60

[orage]

I think the argument for a secret space program made by Farrell & Hoagland is pretty convincing. There was a soviet & american one for public consumption, and one that was compartmentalized.

As to whether the known german tech was exotic enough, then why did it take the old Allies decades to catch up? Stealth as an example. Why were all launch vehicles based on old rocket technology? Why is alternate physics so dogmatically attacked? Why the frantic and very targeted drive by Patton towards the black ops in Thuringa and Prag? There was a frenzy to get all and everything, thousands of tons of documents and patents. If russians and american programs were both based on german tech, scientists & engineers, they clearly must have possessed something.

Secondly, consider that the Nazi tech faction had little to do with Hitler. There's some material that points to a split somewhere around 1941. Consider that the v-1 and v-2 itself could have been a cover program.

[coco]

Orage, as I heard the story, the flying wing has stability issues that both Nazi designers, and later American ones could not overcome so the programs were scrapped by both: first the Nazis, later the Americans. The US felt that it could no longer budget money for something that was so expensive and yet not successful.

When the Stealth was unveiled I found this confusing, but news reports stated the stability issue had finally been resolved - I forget the particular details of that - but I still had to wonder why, after all the years, they decided to take up the flying wing again.

-----------

Saw a Stealth fly in Florida in the summer of 2007. They fly all the time there but this one went directly over the house. I was outside cleaning my truck's windows when I heard what sounded like a large truck roaring in the distance. I looked behind me and a small Stealth was actually very close - that's how quiet it was.

It flew right over me, I could see the bottom of the craft and the outline of the wheel compartments. It was only about 4 stories above the tallest Great Oaks. I watched mesmerized as it passed over me. As it flew away, it appeared as a thin black line in the sky - creepy.

It was after the plane disappeared that I realized I never put my hands over my ears. That instinctive reaction did not take place as when passenger jets fly from the civilian airport or military ones at MacDill AFB. The sound was only a low roar. The dogs in the neighborhood didn't even bark or howl.

I don't know what's in the plane but it is special.

[coco]

Reagan wasn't so crazy with his SDI idea after all.

[tinyint]

Orage, as I heard the story, the flying wing has stability issues that both Nazi designers, and later American ones could not overcome so the programs were scrapped by both: first the Nazis, later the Americans. The US felt that it could no longer budget money for something that was so expensive and yet not successful.

When the Stealth was unveiled I found this confusing, but news reports stated the stability issue had finally been resolved - I forget the particular details of that - but I still had to wonder why, after all the years, they decided to take up the flying wing again.

-----------

Saw a Stealth fly in Florida in the summer of 2007. They fly all the time there but this one went directly over the house. I was outside cleaning my truck's windows when I heard what sounded like a large truck roaring in the distance. I looked behind me and a small Stealth was actually very close - that's how quiet it was.

It flew right over me, I could see the bottom of the craft and the outline of the wheel compartments. It was only about 4 stories above the tallest Great Oaks. I watched mesmerized as it passed over me. As it flew away, it appeared as a thin black line in the sky - creepy.

It was after the plane disappeared that I realized I never put my hands over my ears. That instinctive reaction did not take place as when passenger jets fly from the civilian airport or military ones at MacDill AFB. The sound was only a low roar. The dogs in the neighborhood didn't even bark or howl.

I don't know what's in the plane but it is special.

Would you be able to identify the type? Like F117 or was it a raptor or F35?

[orage]

Reagan wasn't so crazy with his SDI idea after all.

Orbiting space stations with weapons systems isn't a new idea :)

Who first researched lasers and grasers? Who experimented with sound and wave weapons and interrupting aircraft engines?

SDI:
The ambitious initiative was "widely criticized as being unrealistic, even unscientific" as well as for threatening to destabilize MAD and re-ignite "an offensive arms race".[2] It was soon derided as Star Wars, after the popular 1977 film by George Lucas. In 1987 the American Physics Society concluded that a global shield such as "Star Wars" was not only impossible with existing technology, but that ten more years of research was needed to learn whether it might ever be feasible.[3] Under the administration of President Bill Clinton in 1993, its name was changed to the Ballistic Missile Defense Organization (BMDO) and its emphasis was shifted from national missile defense to theater missile defense; and its scope from global to regional coverage. It was never truly developed or deployed, though certain aspects of SDI research and technologies paved the way for some anti-ballistic missile systems of today. BMDO was renamed to the Missile Defense Agency in 2002. This article covers defense efforts under the SDIO.
Space-related defense research and testing remains heavily-budgeted to this day, irrespective of the program names, operative/reporting organizations, politics, or reports to the contrary in the press.[citation needed] Although it is difficult to compile actual spending totals across the complete spectrum of space-based defense programs (including classified "off-budget" "black projects"), the U.S. has certainly invested well over $100 billion on "SDI" and follow-on programs, and holds a commanding lead over all current or potential future adversaries in the realm of space technology/warfare.

The vast majority of this investment has been made in basic research at national laboratories and universities, and these programs continue to be a key source of funding for top research scientists in the fields of high-energy physics, supercomputing/computation, advanced materials, and many other critical science and engineering disciplines: funding which indirectly supports other research work by top scientists, and which would be largely unavailable outside of the defense budget environment.

SDI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Defense_Initiative)

Sure they do :)

The Outer Space Treaty (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outer_Space_Treaty), formally known as the Treaty on Principles Governing the Activities of States in the Exploration and Use of Outer Space, including the Moon and Other Celestial Bodies, is a treaty that forms the basis of international space law. The treaty was opened for signature in the United States, the United Kingdom, and the Soviet Union on January 27, 1967, and entered into force on October 10, 1967. As of 1 January 2008, 98 countries are states-parties to the treaty, while another 27 have signed the treaty but have not yet completed ratification.

The Outer Space Treaty of 1967 bars States Parties to the Treaty from placing nuclear weapons or any other weapons of mass destruction in orbit of Earth, installing them on the Moon or any other celestial body, or to otherwise station them in outer space. It exclusively limits the use of the Moon and other celestial bodies to peaceful purposes and expressly prohibits their use for testing weapons of any kind, conducting military maneuvers, or establishing military bases, installations, and fortifications (Art.IV). However, the Treaty does not prohibit the placement of conventional weapons in orbit.

Project West Ford (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_West_Ford) (also known as Westford Needles and Project Needles) was a test carried out by Massachusetts Institute of Technology's Lincoln Laboratory on behalf of the United States Military in 1961 and 1963 to create an artificial ionosphere above the Earth. This was done to solve a major weakness that had been identified in US military communications.[1]
At the height of the Cold War, all international communications were either sent through undersea cables or bounced off the natural ionosphere. The United States Military was concerned that the Soviets might cut those cables, forcing the unpredictable ionosphere to be the only means of communication with overseas forces.

Moon Treaty was never adopted

The Moon Treaty (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_Treaty) or Moon Agreement, is an international treaty that turns jurisdiction of all heavenly bodies (including the orbits around such bodies) over to the international community. Thus, all activities must conform to international law (notably this includes the UN Charter).
In practice, it is a failed treaty since it has not been ratified by any nation which engages in self-launched manned space exploration or has plans to do so (e.g. the United States, European Union, Russian Federation, People's Republic of China, Japan, and India) since its creation in 1979, and thus has a negligible effect on actual spaceflight.

Plus any treaty signed by the successor German governments wouldn't be binding due to the fact that the Reich never ceased to exist. A point that TinyInt has been in on repeatedly.

[coco]

Would you be able to identify the type? Like F117 or was it a raptor or F35?

I'm afraid I am not versed enough in Stealth planes to know. I saw it as it heading directly toward my direction so I saw the very front of it and clearly saw the bottom side but never saw the top side. It was very triangular and perfectly black.


Just looked at a picture of a Raptor - definitely not that.

Just looked at an F117 photo - very probable.

The B2 is a bomber so I am going to assume it's extremely large, as bombers traditionally are, and I did not see bomber doors on the underside of the plane so I will rule out that one.

Another thing: I was so awestruck by the sight and that it was so low, I realized after it was gone:

1. The distinct lack of ear piercing noise.

2. I didn't see heat from behind it. I don't mean smoke but heat - that which gives the air immediately behind the craft an odd appearance; could have been my particular vantage, the air temperature, I don't know. I always see heat behind a passenger jet as it takes off or behind the regular military jets when they took off and came in to land at MacDill.

3. Even the neighborhood dogs didn't bark so their ears were not offended either.

As it flew away its appearance was exactly as this:

______________


Clearly, it flying very level and in a stright line so that is how its backside appeared to me. I thought to myself if I was not a person living in modern times I would have thought it a UFO.

EDIT: I'm afraid I must bid you all good evening as it's thundering and lightning outside so I must shut down and unplug the computer. I shall rejoin you tomorrow. Good night. :)

[tinyint]

Plus any treaty signed by the successor German governments wouldn't be binding due to the fact that the Reich never ceased to exist. A point that TinyInt has been in on repeatedly.

This point is certainly some strange mystery, why it was ruled out by court. The 'why detail' to this support Hoagland, Farrell and Marrs thesis, I think.
If the war was finished, germany or better the Reich defeated (besides a still missing peace treaty with the still existing Reich), why the hell would rule the highest court in former west germany that the Reich still exists and the FRG is not successor of the Reich? I think this is more than a formal fault.

Interesting treaty add on...

Articles of the Antarctic Treaty

* Article 1 – area to be used for peaceful purposes only; military activity, such as weapons testing, is prohibited, but military personnel and equipment may be used for scientific research or any other peaceful purpose;
* Article 2 – freedom of scientific investigation and cooperation shall continue;
* Article 3 – free exchange of information and personnel in cooperation with the United Nations and other international agencies;
* Article 4 – the treaty does not recognize, dispute, nor establish territorial sovereignty claims; no new claims shall be asserted while the treaty is in force;
* Article 5 – prohibits nuclear explosions or disposal of radioactive wastes;
* Article 6 – includes under the treaty all land and ice shelves south of 60 degrees 00 minutes south;
* Article 7 – treaty-state observers have free access, including aerial observation, to any area and may inspect all stations, installations, and equipment; advance notice of all activities and of the introduction of military personnel must be given;
* Article 8 – allows for jurisdiction over observers and scientists by their own states;
* Article 9 – frequent consultative meetings take place among member nations;
* Article 10 – treaty states will discourage activities by any country in Antarctica that are contrary to the treaty;
* Article 11 – disputes to be settled peacefully by the parties concerned or, ultimately, by the International Court of Justice;
* Articles 12, 13, 14 – deal with upholding, interpreting, and amending the treaty among involved nations.


Sounds familiar in a way, me thinks.

Antarctic Treaty System - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Project West Ford--> HAARP?

Do anybody notice something with this signatory map of the outer space treaty?



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8f/Outer_Space_Treaty.png

Yellow, signed but not ratified:
Iran...North Korea...Somalia...Serbia......Congo...Jordan...Vat ican

Did Iraq ratify before invasion?

Grey.... not signed?:

Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Colombia, Paraguay, Armenia , Azerbaidshan, Georgia, Baltic Countries...

[bard]

Folks please do not divert the thread with irrelevant posts. If someone has some technical information, like drawings and sketches please share it, I might be able to extract some useful information.

Somehow I think that the Bell connection might be a false lead, at least partially. Do not forget that Witkowski is the only source for that and he is a journalist, not a physicist or even engineer. I have no access to his book, what one reads in Farrell's books on the Bell is somewhat confusing.

That much said, I think that the mercury connection is something to follow. It seems that the use of mercury in turbines to produce electricity was well known before the war:

Mercury vapour turbine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Apparently in 1937 in USA there was already a mercury-driven 10 MW turbo-generator. The Germans could probably do way better, especially if they followed Schauberger's ideas on implosion.

you can follow the extra links:
http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/POWER/mercury/mercury.htm

two articles in TIME magazine in 1929 and 1942:
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,732649,00.html

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,777629-1,00.html

do not pay attention to the anti-gravity/alternative science sites, most of these people are clueless

The Vril craft needed a reliable source of electric power since it operated, I believe, by compressing the aether using high voltage pulses. This plays well with Tesla's work and Hutchison's experiments (the floating ball in particular).
YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-G2PzghY_M)

To summarize: advanced (non-linear) electromagnetism and traditional jet propulsion meet quantum mechanics, this is probably the direction we should be looking at this point.

[tinyint]

Folks please do not divert the thread with irrelevant posts. If someone has some technical information, like drawings and sketches please share it, I might be able to extract some useful information.

Somehow I think that the Bell connection might be a false lead, at least partially. Do not forget that Witkowski is the only source for that and he is a journalist, not a physicist or even engineer. I have no access to his book, what one reads in Farrell's books on the Bell is somewhat confusing.

That much said, I think that the mercury connection is something to follow. It seems that the use of mercury in turbines to produce electricity was well known before the war:

Apparently in 1937 in USA there was already a mercury-driven 10 MW turbo-generator. The Germans could probably do way better, especially if they followed Schauberger's ideas on implosion.

The Vril craft needed a reliable source of electric power since it operated, I believe, by compressing the aether using high voltage pulses. This plays well with Tesla's work and Hutchison's experiments (the floating ball in particular).


No offense, but this is a typical american arrogant view.

Folks, you don't have to reinvent the hidden wheel.

However, you made the right assumptions. :)

What is confusing you Farrell writes about in particular?

Here an excerpt ... decide for yourself if it rings true...

AMERICA faces invasion by an armada of Nazi flying saucers -- launched from a secret underground base in Antarctica where they've been housed since World War II!
That's the horrifying claim of a National Security Agency source, who says global warming is to blame.
"Because of excess greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, the Antarctic ice is rapidly melting -- depriving German scientists, SS officers and their families of their sanctuary,' declares the source.
"Their 'final solution' is to conquer America."
The source claims that images collected by U.S. spy satellites reveal that at least 420 of the menacing saucers, each about 90-feet in diameter, emerged from the now-partially exposed base and are hovering over the continent -- waiting to attack.
"Radio messages we've intercepted and decoded suggest that each saucer is packed with enough super-advanced weaponry to destroy 10 American cities," warns the source.
It's been rumored since World War II that German scientists designed and built flying saucers.
"Adolf Hitler desperately sought a superweapon that could guarantee him victory," explains historian Lawrence C. Wangler. "One of the many secret projects his scientists pursued was the creation of a circular aircraft that could lift off vertically.
"The project was led by Dr. Viktor Schuberger, who designed a craft that utilized a vortex to generate magnetic fields, causing levitation.
"A prototype tested on Feb. 19, 1945, attained an altitude of 45,000 feet, according to Schuberger's notes."
Success came too late for Hitler to win Word War II. But the twisted maniac did dispatch men and equipment to construct a fleet that could fight another day -- in Antarctica.
The Germans had already extensively mapped the continent and claimed it in the name of the Third Reich.
"In March 1945, just before the end of the war, two German U-boats left a port on the Baltic Sea -- reportedly taking with them top SS officers and key members of the flying- saucer research team, plus saucer designs and plans for a gigantic underground complex. It's widely believed that the submarines were bound for Antarctica."
According to the NSA source, it's more than a belief -- it's a fact.
"The theory up until now was that if we leave them alone, they'll leave us alone," he says. "But it looks like that uneasy truce is about to end.
http://www.wfg-gk.de/verschwoerung42.html

[astrochicken]

Not entirely off-topic but more as regards possible propulsion systems.

There are quite a few patents listed here which were stolen from the germans after the war and *reregistered"


Here's one for example relating to Hans Coler's patent for a "Magnetstromapparat"" which he developed for the german navy in ww2.


http://www.rexresearch.com/coler/colerb.htm

Here's one of his patents for an ac/dc converter from 1939 (in german) (http://www.rexresearch.com/coler/de680761.pdf)



There's a wealth of information on rexresearch.com for those who, like myself, like playing around with magnets and things that spin.

[rodin]

Orage, as I heard the story, the flying wing has stability issues that both Nazi designers, and later American ones could not overcome so the programs were scrapped by both: first the Nazis, later the Americans. The US felt that it could no longer budget money for something that was so expensive and yet not successful.

When the Stealth was unveiled I found this confusing, but news reports stated the stability issue had finally been resolved - I forget the particular details of that - but I still had to wonder why, after all the years, they decided to take up the flying wing again.

That's an easy answer. Flying wings are hard to fly - need constant course corrections. Now microprocessors handle this easily, removing the stumbling block

Sorta like how we can easily see Jackie assassinating Jack with the Zapruder footage stabilised...

[rodin]

Hey you lot - I might get it wrong sometimes but at least my original research is honest and not disinfo...

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=73423

[rodin]

[QUOTE=orage;1058748467]Orbiting space stations with weapons systems isn't a new idea :)


And of course MASERs, the source of 'alien' crop circle hoaxes

[orage]

Orbiting space stations with weapons systems isn't a new idea :)


And of course MASERs, the source of 'alien' crop circle hoaxes

Are you running in a new crop of circles, rodin, getting hit by a vortex? Here to spin your own yarn? Are you rotating clock - or counter-clockwise? Crop circles are popular around Glastonbury, I believe.

Alien. Right. What has been discussed so far is Made in Germany. Coco mentioned SDI and I provided some perspective, along with curious treaties.

Spin, spin sugar.

http://kingdomofstyle.typepad.co.uk/my_weblog/images/2008/07/12/lm0154fairtimecottoncandyposters.jpg

Back to topic.

EDIT: I normally enjoy your material, but don't attach my name with nonsense. If I want that, I'll do it myself. :p

[tinyint]

Hey you lot - I might get it wrong sometimes but at least my original research is honest and not disinfo...

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=73423

What you are up to, rodin?

Disinfo?LOL?What?

Without these guys like Farrell and Witkowski, you guys wouldn't even know about the bell in english world, since you all do not read german.

The political implications need to be discussed though.

You are trying to reinvent the wheel, but do so if you like.
Research another 100 years in the english world for the stuff, already invented. But don't forget to write a BS cover story before this time... argh...

Maybe you can answer the simple question then, why this "disinformation" have been hunted down and people died for it?

[orage]

http://www.tiono.com/model/FlyingSaucers.pdf

"Hitler's Flying Saucers" is probably one of the best English-language books written on the subject. It's packed with a good ammount of technical information, including numerous illustrations and photographs. Contributions range from austrian industrial musician Kadmon to the nazi-era scientists.

This book is a guide into the world of German flying discs. You may have picked up this guide because you are unfamiliar with the German production of flying saucers during World War Two. The basics of this production will be revealed to you in the following pages. An adventure awaits you.

In most cases, any extraterrestrial hypothesis is acceptable to government manipulators, especially if it is so ridiculous that the witnesses end up discrediting themselves. The government is so successful at this that the entire topic of UFOs has become somewhat of a joke. This is done deliberately. Thus, serious people with "something to lose" are afraid to stake their reputations on a public announcement of their UFO experience, no matter how real it may have been. At this point the government has achieved its purpose which is to discredit and suppress all serious inquiry into the UFO question.

If we are to seek any real explanation of the UFO phenomenon, we must make a clean break with the past. We must go back to the basics of simplicity and logic. One basic question is this: could we humans be capable of making the unidentified flying machines which have been seen in abundance in the sky since the Second World War? Until we answer that question in the negative, there is no reason to postulate an alien origin for UFOs.
One purpose of this book is to give an individual new to this subject an overview into the study of German flying discs. Never fear, this is not a disjointed spook-hunt, chasing sightings and abductions. There are real facts in this field. There are real people with real names and histories and there are real saucer designs.

Henry Stevens- Hitler's Flying Saucers: A Guide to German Flying Discs of the Second World War

[manxboz]

Just downloaded it and going to watch it tonight. I'm sure i have seen it a few years back but always good to refresh.:D

[rodin]

@ Mensch n Tiny Int

Someone mentioned space based LASERs and GRASERs - I merely added to that MASERs - plus an observation of how hi tech black budget is used to create red herring belief. One BTW I have pretty much proved.

As for NAZI tech - the interesting direction is antigravity and flying wings is not that, interesting though the subject is.

I have no doubt that if the Germans could counter gravity then false trails will have been laid by the inheritors of the technology. I am looking for scientific proofs not documents etc

[tinyint]

@ Mensch n Tiny Int

Someone mentioned space based LASERs and GRASERs - I merely added to that MASERs - plus an observation of how hi tech black budget is used to create red herring belief. One BTW I have pretty much proved.

As for NAZI tech - the interesting direction is antigravity and flying wings is not that, interesting though the subject is.

I have no doubt that if the Germans could counter gravity then false trails will have been laid by the inheritors of the technology. I am looking for scientific proofs not documents etc

Keep looking then...

Nobody said Nurflügler is the hot stuff.

Who are the inheritors of the tech in your opinion, the US?
I don't get your point.

Nobody disagrees with you about some smokescreen the US science uses.
Its a cover up that it took them 70 years to reverse engineer the stuff, if they had success which I doubt.

Well, I pointed out the sources you still chose to ignore. The info the guys collected cannot be put in a one liner on a forum.
The folks are on the right track, finally, some folks who took the german authors serious enough to investigate into the stolen archives and the naively imported scientists.

Friedrich Georg:
--Atomziel New York
--Mit dem Balkenkreuz zum Mond
Edgar Mayer/Thomas Mehner:
--Die Angst der Amerikaner vor der deutschen Atombombe: Neue Informationen und Dokumente zum größten Geheimnis des Dritten Reiches
--Unternehmen Patentenraub 1945: Die Geheimgeschichte des größten Technologieraubs aller Zeiten
Rainer Karlsch--Hitler's Bombe
Igor Witkowski:
-- Hitler's Untergrund Reich
--Die Wahrheit über die Wunderwaffen 1 & 2
J.P.Farrell
R.Hoagland
N.Cook

I am not interested in Maser and such stuff, it would be a spare product of the tech they had, hence also logically explainable.

[bard]

Can anyone here help me find these videos (for free :))? Apparently they were produced in the 1990s:

http://alientattletale.com/alien_presence/index.html

http://www.germanufochatter.com/German-Chatter-Main/index.html

They seem pretty interesting.

[coco]

With respect, I do not wish to detract from the point of this thread and I apologize for I know I have, but I must say this: The Wing/Stealth is hot stuff in my opinion. Perhaps some may feel we Americans are easily impressed but we regard the Stealth as bad ass. I also regard the British 'jump jet' the same.

Any black, triangular jet so quiet as to pass over my head at low altitude without hurting my ears or disturbing animals, that journeyed on appearing only as a thin black line in the sky impresses me. It is, after all, the child of the Hortons.

-------------------------

Thanks to Rodin for reminding me how the stability issue was overcome in the Wing/Stealth. Forgive my seeming sarcasm, but it took modern science and microprocessors for man to achieve what birds have always done.

-------------------------

Mr. Schauberger had his ideas, too.

http://i44.tinypic.com/kafi42.jpg

[tinyint]

Mr. Schauberger had his ideas, too.

http://i44.tinypic.com/kafi42.jpg

Yes, it depends on Bard if he wants us to also look into more conventional UFO/disc shaped approaches.

It looks to me a bit more like the Rudolf Schriever Flugkreisel (http://discaircraft.greyfalcon.us/Rudolf%20Schriever.htm) approach judging the design, but I am not sure.

http://greyfalcon.us/the%20Schriever%20Story.htm

It was basically a hypersonic helicopter.

Can anyone here help me find these videos (for free :))? Apparently they were produced in the 1990s:

http://alientattletale.com/alien_presence/index.html

http://www.germanufochatter.com/German-Chatter-Main/index.html

They seem pretty interesting.

So you are looking for Terzinski video named "The Terrestrial Component of the Alien Presence"?

Do you have any more search criteria? I cannot find a vid, but if interested I can post some ebook concerning V.Terzinski and Al Bielek I found.

[coco]

Heh, astute description of the vehicle.

[bard]

So you are looking for Terzinski video named "The Terrestrial Component of the Alien Presence"?

Do you have any more search criteria? I cannot find a vid, but if interested I can post some ebook concerning V.Terzinski and Al Bielek I found.

If the book contains some technical informations, unseen photos, drawings - yes, I am interested, if it is all about aliens taking over the Earth - no, I do not want to look at it.
The UFO community has been heavily infiltrated by intelligence service agents since its very origins in the late 1940s.

These 1990s underground videos seem like might be worth taking a look at.
The Terziiski dude seems like an interesting fellow, in one of the videos he has a chat with Eustace Mullins and Jordan Maxwell, and these guys were way ahead of the pack back then. He is probably a good guy.

Now regarding my remark about the Bell/Witkowski/Farrell that upset you.
The Bell, if real, might have been some secondary project, very unusual probably, but not crucial for the development of the flying craft. Why do I think so?
First, once again, the only source of the story is Witkowski (well plus this Kecksburg UFO incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia), who allegedly got it from a former Polish secret service agent, who got it from the KGB archives. They were interrogating some SS general and he allegedly "confessed". Now if this is true, then the Soviets certainly knew about it and probably had a lot more information than just this testimony. Why did not they do anything then? It is not for the lack of resources or mental ability, they had some outstanding scientists at their disposal, they were fanatical about secrecy etc.. Yet, there is no attempt to replicate the work, at least not a successful one. There are rumors that the Soviets had some advanced EM weapons, one in particular could create some kind of a field over certain area such that all internal combustion engines with electric ignition would stop working (I know this for a fact). Some UFO reports indicate the same effect when a saucer passes by a vehicle.
But if you look at the 3rd video at the begining of the thread (the one narrated by Nick Cook) there you will see mentioned the fact that Andropov (when he was the KGB director) was puzzled by the UFOs. He had an entire drawer in his desk with pictures and reports.

Now the physics behind it, at least from what I've seen in Farrell's speculations is not entirely sound. He thinks that the Bell has something to do with nuclear spin polarization in the rotating mercury. The numbers just do not work right. If one considers a spinning region of mercury at 10 000 rpm, with radius 1m and thickness let's say 0.1 m, one can see that the angular momentum is in the order of 10^6 J.s. If they used a stable isotope of mercury, the one with the most huclear spin (3/2)h/2pi has atomic mass 201. One can calculate how many nuclei there are in that much mercury (in the order of 10^28) and assume that all nuclear spins are lined up, then one gets quantum addition to the angular momentum in the order of just 10^(-6) J.s, so this is just a tiny tiny addition, it comes about since the Planck constant h is so small -> h/2pi = 10^(-34) J.s . I do not see how any drastic changes in the behavior of materials could occur (like levitation for example).

Then there is this thing about Walther Gerlach that upset me a lot. Farrell claims that Gerlach was a gravitation expert and a Nobel laureate, none of which is true ,and it could have taken him 1 min to verify it. Gerlach was the co-discoverer of the spin quantization, in the so called Stern-Gerlach experiment 1921. Now this is an interesting story in itself. His colleague Otto Stern, who was Jewish, left Germany before the war. Then the Nobel prize was awarded only to him, in 1943, Gerlach was never mentioned, even though the Stern-Gerlach experiment is one of the most important experiments in the history of Physics and it is discussed in every textbook. So Gerlach certainly had some incentive to "get even" so to speak. But after the war he was held in custody by the Americans, questioned and then released to civil life in 1946. Now, either he did not know anything, or he told them everything he knew.

Notice that when Admiral Byrd arrived in Antarctica he knew exactly where to look for the base. He was not wandering around Neuschwabenland, he went to a completely different place. His planes got shot 60 km from the bunker (the Bunger Hills enclave). Probably the Germans moved out of the area back then, due to safety issues, and these bases have been deserted ever since. It is possible that they actually slowly "diffused" into South America or South Africa, leaving back in Antarctica some of the equipment. I see no way to maintain a colony of even 100-200 people in such extreme conditions for more than a few years. People need food and raw materials to survive, and Antarctica has none (unless the Hollow Earth thing is true).
One may find a possible link if one searches for companies in South America and/or South Africa that were bying large quanities of mercury in the 1950s and 1960s. This is a job for a true investigative journalist, but this particular investigation might lead, I am afraid, to a certain death. :(

[orage]

Bard, your questions regarding Antarctica bases are something I've asked myself. It's quite the leap to imagine tens of thousands of people over any sustained time in these conditions. I also stumbled over the non-existent Nobel prize for Gerlach. Not sure why he wasn't co-awarded, since they both were named in the experiment that was the base for it. Maybe politics?

Stern was awarded the 1943 Nobel Prize in Physics, the first to be awarded since 1939. He was the sole recipient in Physics that year, and the award citation omitted mention of the Stern-Gerlach experiment, as Gerlach had remained active in Nazi-led Germany.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stern–Gerlach_experiment

However, there has been at least one attempt to recreate the Bell effect, something Coco send me.

John Dering of SARA and members of that team have replicated key elements of the fabled Nazi Bell technology, and have seen some anti-gravity and propulsion effects with it. http://pesn.com/2005/11/16/9600203_New_Nazi_Bell/


Tim Ventura's article.

http://www.americanantigravity.com/documents/The-New-Nazi-Bell.pdf

The Stevens pdf may have drawings and pictures you haven't seen yet.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1058749871&postcount=108

[rodin]

Working thru this document

http://www.tiono.com/model/FlyingSaucers.pdf

Most of us have heard of the two Thermodynamic Laws. These are laws of heat. The First Law of
Thermodynamics states that energy is conserved, meaning that the total amount of energy in the
universe always remains the same. This is no surprise for most of us and it is not the real concern here.
What is of concern is the Second Law of Thermodynamics which discusses heat and entropy. The word
entropy might be thought of as a state of randomness or chaos. Negative entropy would then mean
movement toward the less random or the more ordered in any particular thing. If we apply this to a
system, then entropy tends to increase until the system breaks down in utter chaos
This will occur unless the system is re-charged with additional outside energy. A concrete example is
less confusing.

Imagine a new automobile just coming off the assembly line. It has taken a great deal of energy to find,
refine, forge, weld,and paint the metal parts of this car alone. This same concept also applies to all the
other components of the car. This energy and organization constitute a highly organized state, or, said
another way, a state of negative entropy.

What happens next illustrates entropy. The car is purchased.Whaether it is driven hard or just sits in the
garage does not matter in the long run because what happens to the car is that it starts to fall apart. This
change may be small at first and may only occur at the molecular level, but it occurs nevertheless.The
engine, transmission, paint, rubber, electronics, etc. all will fail with time. Even it the car just sits in the
garage, in a thousand years the metal will eventually oxidize. Finally, the car rusts away forming a
reddish brown heap. This is exactly the opposite of the organization and energy used to put the car
togaether. This disorganization is entropy. The only thing which will reverse this, as we all know, are
additional inputs of energy by the owner in the form of maintenance and repairs.

All things in a relative state of relative order move toward a state of disorder. In terms of heat, heat will
always flow into a colder place from a warmer place. When something is heated there is a rise in its
entropy. With increasing heat its molecules move faster and faster in random chaos as a bomb does
when it explodes. Increasing heat means increasing randomness and chaos which is entropy. Cold,
then, can be seen in terms of negative entropy. Any cold object is simply more organized and less
random than the same object once it is heated.

Schappeller had something to say about the Second Law of Thermodynamics. He said there was
another and unknown thermodynamic cycle which runs opposite the Second Law. To name this idea
we will call it "Reverse Thermodynamics". It is the reverse of the Second Law of Thermodynamics in
that it leads to an increase in entropy. Not only is there an increase in order but there is an increase in
cold! Schappeller, according to Mr. Watson's letter, built his spherical device primarily to demonstrate
the principles behind this Reverse Thermodynamics.It was not designed as a practical machine.

To demonstrate the difference between the Second Law of Thermodynamics and Reverse
Thermodynamics two theoretical machines shall be examined. Actually, a machine running according
to the Second Law of Thermodynamics is not theoretical at all. Combustion machines are of this type.
For simplicity sake we will use a wood burning stove such as the type invented by Benjamin Franklin
for the heating of a house.

Wood is put in a hollow iron vessel with an adjustable hole at one end. The adjustable hole admits
atmospheric oxygen. An initial small input of heat is added to the wood and oxygen until burning
occurs. A great deal of heat is produced once the wood begins to burn. We know heat expands. Carbon,
carbon dioxide and water vapor are also produced as byproducts of the combustion. Entropy is
increased. Since entropy is increased, so is pollution so perhaps we all can agree that this is a good
example of the destructive technology so characteristic of the world in which we live.

In our example of a theoretical Reverse Thermodynamic machine the byproducts of the previous
example can be used as fuel. But Schappeller's machine has the additional property of being creative,
that is, negatively entropic. Schappeller believed this creative process to be individualistic, so we need
a specific template to use as a pattern for this creation. Heat,water, and carbon dioxide are imputed into
this machine. Quite amazingly, oxygen is yielded as a byproduct of this reaction!The heat is also
absorbed in Schappeller's Reverse Thermodynamic machine! This absorption of heat is another way of
saying that the machine is implosive in nature rather than expansive or explosive as was the heat
producing machine. What is most amazing, however, is that entropy is actually reduced yielding,
something which has been created -wood!

Actually, this machine is not theoretical either. It exists and works as we speak. These machines are all
around us. We call these machine "life". In this case our machine is a tree. In the tree, energy, sunlight,
is absorbed and combined in a cold process with water and carbon dioxide to form wood. The template
used as a pattern for this seemingly intelligent, creative,process is simply a seed. In this type of reaction
the "cold"force is something other than the absence of heat. This cold is an active cold. It is a
"densifying", implosive cold. It is a life-giving cold. This is a cold, life giving force. To quote Watson:
"This process is life force and the reverse of the second law of thermodynamics; it is the vital force:
Vril."

I am quoting this partly for my benefit - in my gestating Unified Theory of Everything the universe is unbound and steady state - driven by a fission fusion cycle.

The stumbling block has always been entropy and its presumed increase. I have argued that in a fission-fusion cycle model entropy is conserved. This is the first time I have read a reference to 'negative entropy' - the balancing side of the entropy equation.

edit

According to my understanding energy is required to drive the re-organisation of molecules into a tree. It is not a 'cold' process at all. The energy input comes from the Sun.

I see entropy perhaps being conserved on the inter galactic scale - from supernova to 'black hole' and back

[bard]

Origins of the term

The term "Vril" came to the attention of the Western world through the writings of a not well known French author, Louis Jacolliot (1837-1890).

Jacolliot was an avid reader of occult literature, and was familiar with the work of Swedenborg, of the theosophist Jacob Böhme and of Louis Claude de Saint Martin. In the course of his professional career Jacolliot had been president of the tribunal at Chandernagor, India, and afterwards French consul in Calcutta.

The works of Jacolliot have inspired several writers and occultists, among them Rudyard Kipling and H. P. Blavatsky. Among Jacolliot's many books are: La Bible dans l'Inde ou la Vie de Iezeus Christna (1859); Les Fils de Dieu (1873); Christna et le Christ (1874); Les Traditions indo-européennes (1876); La Genèse de l'humanité (1879); and L'Olympe brahmanique (1881).

The main theme in his books is that modern civilizations were originated from a single, primordial nucleus, which was the same for India, western Asia, and Europe. The Semitic and indo-European races were not different at the beginning, but the Semitic races degenerated in the process, while the Aryans remained pure. A code of law rules civilized people, the Code of Manu, name of the divine ruler in India, while in Egypt he was called Menes, Mosses among the Hebrews, and Minos in Crete.

According to Jacolliot, Jesus Christ is but a recent reconstruction of an old indo-aryan tradition, that of Iezeus-Christna. Jesus of Nazareth is only a different characterization of the same personage.

North of Europe a magic civilization has existed for millennia and its name is Thule. The superior beings of Thule live in huge caverns in the entrails of the earth. They possess an extraordinary source of magic energy: the Vril. The theme of the Vril is exalted in most of Jacolliot's writings. Vril is an energy latent in man, but he utilizes only a fraction of it. It is the source of divinity, the source of the coming superman. He who discovers it and masters its use acquires great powers. He can become a master of men.

In many of his works, particularly in Les Fils de Dieu, and in Les Traditions indo-européenes , Jacolliot affirms that he discovered the existence of Vril among an Indian sect: the Jains, still active in the regions of Mysore and Gujerat, and counting millions of adepts.

The discovery of Vril by Jacolliot created extraordinary interest among European intellectuals, avid of knowledge about traditional oriental wisdom. Inspired by his writings a group of Rosicrucians from Berlin founded, by the end of the 19th century, the Vril Society to divulge the writings of the French master. Jacolliot's ideas were introduced in England by S. L. Matthews at the Golden Dawn Society, of which he was the Great Master.

With the passage of time, apparently the term Vril fell in disuse. Interest on Vril was renewed after it was used again in a novel with occult and prophetic overtones, The Coming Race , written by the Baron Edward Bulwer-Lytton.


Vril Power

1871 saw the publication of The Coming Race by the English Rosicrucian, member of the House of Lords and minister of the state Edward Bulwer Lord Lytton, who personally knew one of the leading occultists of his epoch, Eliphas Levi. In this novel a young American somehow is led ever deeper into chasms in the earth until he reaches a subterranean realm in which live tall and highly educated people who had mastered a mysterious power they called "VRIL", the vital energy of the shooting grain that anyone could concentrate through his or her so-called VRIL Staff and individually apply both healingly as well as destructively. Thought transfer and telekinesis were also possible, but VRIL could also serve as a weapon.

Helena Blavatski, the foundress of the Theosophical Society, describes this force as an aether stream that in 1872 could be transformed into a physical force only by the Englishman John W. Keely, an ‘initiate of Nature’, through a mechanical device, an ability that apparently had been rescinded by the spirit side due to the threatened abuse of it on Earth.

Rudolf Steiner, the initiator of the Anthroposophical Movement, at the beginning of the 20th century describes this VRIL power as ‘aether of life’ and named its abuse as the cause of the destruction of Atlantis. In his mystery plays Rudolf Steiner recalls the fate of John W. Keely in the figure of Dr. Strader. In the last scene of the last play Dr. Strader becomes the fulcrum for the New Age. To whit: Only when the laboratory table becomes the altar, when from the fruits of the materialistically dominated ‘natural science’ evolves a moral ‘Science for Nature’, the New Age may unfold.

It is said that in the 1920s the Austrian Karl Schapeller had conducted successful experiments with VRIL that he called “fiery aether“, but had remained without success due to the danger of economical misuse. – This VRIL Technology apparently was taken over and further developed in secret up to operability by the Reichsarbeitsgemeinschaft ‘Das kommende Deutschland’ (The Reich’s Study Group ‘The Coming Germany’) that some think is the legendary VRIL-Gesellschaft (VRIL Society). In the war years after 1940 names like V7 or V9 and the technical documents still available indicate that German flying disks were equipped with a kind of VRIL technology via an electrostatic propulsion system enabling those flying manoeuvres that we know today from original films and science fiction representations.

source: http://greyfalcon.us/restored/The%20Vril%20Society.htm

thanks to orage for the link

I was able to find one book by V. Terziiski that contains a lot of technical information. I am about to read it when I find the time (the book is not in English). He does seem to suggest that the Nazi craft use some kind of gyroscopic effect. There is a brief mentioning in one of Farrell's books (can't find the page now) of similar claim, this time made by nobody else but Otto Skorzeny (the famous SS comando who rescued Mussolini from the Italian partisans). He would know, I think.

There is a tape by Terziiski on Amazon:
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51QN0CAEY0L._SL500_AA300_.jpg

It sells for $120, can't afford it right now, must pay taxes to feed the moneychangers :(

I found this video on youtube, which interestingly was produced for/by the British branch of the Knights Templar (this is a body within the York Rite). So our good masonic friends know all about the Nazi UFO connection, hmmm :cool:

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JtGv9lpONg)

[bard]

After reading just a few pages from Terziiski's book "The flying saucers of the Illuminati" it finally clicked. I figured it out. This is how it goes, read on:

Helicity


There is a quantity in physics known as helicity . Basically it is related to the scalar product (dot-product) between a vector and a pseudo-vector. For example if we imagine a bullet spinning around its axis of symmetry, the helicity is defined as the dot product of the momentum of the bullet p=mv and its spin s=Iw, where m is mass, I is moment of inertia, v is velocity and w is the angular velocity. While the velocity is a vector, the angular velocity is a pseudo-vector - its direction is determined by convention, the so called right-hand rule. In general the dot product between two vectors is a scalar (just a number, no direction), but here we deal with a pseudo-scalar - if we switch the orientation of the coordinate system from right-handed to left-handed, the helicity changes its sign - from positive to negative, or vice versa.
The scalar product of two vectors has a magnitude that depends on the magnitudes of the two vectors and the cosine of the angle between the two.
Thus for example if the spin and the velocity are in the same direction, then their helicity is positive, if in the opposite direction - it is negative.

Here is an example of spinning bullet with positive helicity:
http://img686.imageshack.us/img686/4299/bullet.png

Now consider the rotational state of the Earth:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/61/AxialTiltObliquity.png

The angle between the orbital velocity and the spin vector of the Earth is about 113 degrees, so the Earth has negative helicity. We can say that the Earth is a left-handed creature.

The Vril Connection

Now here it gets interesting. Living organisms are right-handed creatures. For example the DNA molecule has right-handed symmetry. If one makes a connection between negative entropy and life, one may assume that one condition for life is to be based on structures which have helicity opposite to that of their immediate physical environment. On Earth humans have their heart on the left-hand side of their body, but if we deal with creatures coming from a world with planetary helicity different than that of the Earth, they will likely have their hearts (if they have such organs) on the opposite side.
What characterizes living matter as different from non-living matter? Order and growth are the two most important features of life, I think. Just look at a Sequoia tree, they grow up to 100m.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cc/Del_Norte_Titan_230.jpg

Trees defeat gravity up front of our very eyes and we are blind to see it.

Buoyancy based on helicity difference

I was speculating earlier that probably the UFO craft manipulate the energy density of the aether to generate propulsive forces. But what kind of forces? Are they more like those in a rocket or in a helium balloon? After giving the matter some deep thought, I arrived at the conclusion that it is the second type. The lift force acting on a helium balloon (or a hot air balloon) is proportional to the difference between the density of the surrounding air and the fluid medium in the balloon. The greater the density difference, the greater the lift force. So a speculate that the energy density of the quantum vacuum (the turbulent chaotic aether) depends on the local value of the helicity. By generating helicity of sign different that that of the underlying environment one might generate buoyancy-like force.

Lift Force ~ (H - H0)

How do they fly?

How does one generate helicity? First we see that if the spin and the velocity are at right angle, the helicity is zero (cosine of 90 degrees is zero).

Then we see that the helicity is proportional to the square of the mass and the speed of rotation, since the moment of inertia is linearly proportional to the mass.

So the first method is to take a large massive body and spin in a suitable direction (clockwise or counter-clockwise) very very fast as it goes up (propelled initially possibly by some conventional method such as a ring with rocket engines). Well the Germans actually tried that and it kind of worked. But one must spend a lot of energy to feed the jet engines and then to spin the body of the ship.
Interestingly, many inventors over the years have observed that spinning gyroscopes sometimes appear to lose weight if you try to move them. So we see a possible coupling between the spin of the gyroscope and its direction of motion (the motion being induced by the person holding the axle of the gyro).

See for example this lecture on gyroscopes by Eric Laithwaite circa 1974:

Eric Laithwaite's lecture on gyroscopes part 1/7 - YouTube

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnNUTOxHoto)

This is the most superb scientific presentation that I have ever seen, and I've seen quite a few.

Now back to the this helicity thing. What other means do we have to generate it?

Here are a few definitions:

(in fluids) h=\integral v.curl v dV

one looks at the dot product between the fluid velocity and the vorticity and integrates this quantity over the volume of the fluid.

(in magnetism) h=\integral A.curl A dV

Here A is the magnetic vector potential and curl A is just the magnetic field B.

(in Electrodynamics) h = \integral P.L dV

Here P is the momentum of the electromagnetic field and L is its angular momentum. Both quantities scale with E x B (the cross product between the electric field and the magnetic field). So the helicity scales with E^2B^2. If we double both E and B, the helicity goes up by a factor 4x4=16.

So I believe that the Germans tried to rotate electromagnetic fields instead of heavy gyroscopes. The mercury vortex generator was coupled to a some high-voltage capacitor in some clever way. Now here we deal with issues of engineering design, once the basic physics is clear, improvements can be made over time.

In helium balloon, the textile membrane of the balloon keeps the two fluids separated. What keeps the energy density gradient in the saucer? Well, I can wildly speculate that if the aether rushes back to fill the "void" then its energy might be actually used to power up the electromagnetic drive of the craft, thus a lot of energy will be needed only at start-up, then after that the process will be self-sustaining, much like the dynamo generating the magnetic field of the Earth.

That's basically it. I am either a madman, a fool, or a genius :D

Well, I can't claim to have made any discovery since these ideas are in fact present in Terziiski book in one form or another, I just put them in a more scientific perspective. So he knew about it, the Germans knew about it, the ancients knew about (levitating stones?), the aliens know about it...

Fuck the Illuminati man, we want to reach the stars :D

[orage]

Fuck the Illuminati man, we want to reach the stars :D

Thanks for the attempt to bring life forces into a scientific formula.

Sternenkinder indeed, longing to return. Not sure whether we need our physical bodies for that though.

[coco]

*Quick peek in from Sunday cooking*

The Science Channel will present a program Tuesday, March 30th at 10 pm US Eastern (New York time) entitled 'How to Build a Flying Saucer' hosted by theoretical physict Dr. Michio Kaku.

http://i35.tinypic.com/24zews8.jpg

I just checked Science Channel's schedule to confirm

http://science.discovery.com/tv-schedules/series.html?paid=48.15730.127643.38766.12

and it appears as though it's only a thirty minute program. :(

"Defying gravity and hurtling through space: the flying saucer is the ultimate science fiction vehicle. Using cutting-edge research and theoretical physics, Dr. Michio Kaku reveals how one day we could all be using the aliens' favorite mode of transport."

Dr. Kaku concludes the commercial by asking, "Why should the aliens have all the fun?"

*Back to Sunday cooking*

[manxboz]

I thought it was ok, but it didn't really go into much, it just skimmed over things and then left you to go digging yourself. It could have been more informative.

[coco]

I thought it was ok, but it didn't really go into much, it just skimmed over things and then left you to go digging yourself. It could have been more informative.

Oh so it's a repeat then. I'll have to agree that a 30 minute program wouldn't be able to offer much.

[rodin]

http://books.google.com/books?id=sl69XGiohsoC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_v2_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q=&f=false

<<< I was looking for 101 scientists against Einstein

[coco]

I thought it was ok, but it didn't really go into much, it just skimmed over things and then left you to go digging yourself. It could have been more informative.

Yes, I watched it last night. I found it disappointing. Dr. Kaku did manage to invent the mag lev....again. And while I understand why he would require a rudder on his theoretical flying saucer, flying saucers don't have rudders as a ship or airplane does.

It would be a good program for older children and teenagers to ignite their interest, though.

[orage]

Here's a intro into the alleged Vril Society for Propulsion

Not all good comes from above.

The Vril Discs (http://discaircraft.greyfalcon.us/The%20Vril%20Discs.htm)
Series 1-11 (1941-1945) By Rob Arndt

http://discaircraft.greyfalcon.us/picturesc/altd.jpg

It has their history, the projected & build Flugscheiben, a bit on the Isais background and Magische Sonne, often wrongly called Black Sun. This background is roughly how Causa Nostra describes the events. There's of course much more in German, with a greater amount of research been done at their site (http://www.causa-nostra.com/navi/Ueberblick.htm).

http://www.causa-nostra.com/vril/cn1003/gx/Geheime-Kommandosache--g1003a05.jpg

[coco]

(gloriously beautiful long hair)

[manxboz]

Yes, I watched it last night. I found it disappointing. Dr. Kaku did manage to invent the mag lev....again. And while I understand why he would require a rudder on his theoretical flying saucer, flying saucers don't have rudders as a ship or airplane does.

It would be a good program for older children and teenagers to ignite their interest, though.

Yes i agree, it would ignite the imagination for youngers and hopefully lead them onto a path of research but for people, like myself, who have done research into these things before it's nothing but woefully lacking in any substance.

[tinyint]

http://www.fast-geheim.de/assets/images/RFZ29.jpg
the marked reads "Flying Disc"

http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/9523/lusarwi5.jpg
Rudolf Lusar: Die deutschen Waffen und Geheimwaffen des 2. Weltkrieges und ihre Weiterentwicklung 1956

http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/7658/impelleraa9.jpg
Victor Schauberger's Repulsine (http://www.frank.germano.com/viktorschauberger_3.htm) (Implosionmachine)

http://www.nexusboard.net/sitemap/6365/deutsche-geheime-flugscheiben-projekte-t234604/

google translation of above thread (http://translate.google.de/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nexusboard.net%2Fsite map%2F6365%2Fdeutsche-geheime-flugscheiben-projekte-t234604%2F&sl=de&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8)

[bard]

http://www.nexusboard.net/sitemap/6365/deutsche-geheime-flugscheiben-projekte-t234604/

google translation of above thread (http://translate.google.de/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nexusboard.net%2Fsite map%2F6365%2Fdeutsche-geheime-flugscheiben-projekte-t234604%2F&sl=de&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8)

There is something funny here.
http://www.kheichhorn.de/assets/images/haunebu_I-Plan.jpg

The drawing shows Haunebu I (with SS logo and all) and it lists the engine as Thule-Tachyonator 7b

Tachyon is a particle that travels faster than light. The problem is that the very term "tachyon" was introduced only in 1960s by Gerald Feinberg. So I do not think that the drawing is genuine. It is fake - somebody's speculation regarding the construction of the German craft. And the drawing itself does not seem professional enough, I've seen quite a few real technical drawings in my life, the Germans are fanatical about order (Ordnung), this just does not seem right.

There are many false leads out there, some put there intentionally, some are instead due to the over-enthusiasm of the researchers who investigate this obscure and dangerous topic.

[tinyint]

There are many false leads out there, some put there intentionally, some are instead due to the over-enthusiasm of the researchers who investigate this obscure and dangerous topic.

What is obscure and dangerous? The National Security of the US depending on the veil of that?

This still does not dismiss the powerful thread, by picking one drawing.

I know, it is difficult to accept, that there are two different physics today.

[orage]

There is something funny here.
http://www.kheichhorn.de/assets/images/haunebu_I-Plan.jpg

The drawing shows Haunebu I (with SS logo and all) and it lists the engine as Thule-Tachyonator 7b

Tachyon is a particle that travels faster than light. The problem is that the very term "tachyon" was introduced only in 1960s by Gerald Feinberg. So I do not think that the drawing is genuine. It is fake - somebody's speculation regarding the construction of the German craft. And the drawing itself does not seem professional enough, I've seen quite a few real technical drawings in my life, the Germans are fanatical about order (Ordnung), this just does not seem right.

There are many false leads out there, some put there intentionally, some are instead due to the over-enthusiasm of the researchers who investigate this obscure and dangerous topic.

Heh, when the Besatzungsmacht just confiscates your research and patents, you'd be careful too.

Many things developed before 1945 popped up later as new inventions. Do some research on Lasers aka Death Ray. Or transistors and IC. Or Schauberger.

Besides, of course there's a lot of dis-info and obscure material. Doesn't mean you can dismiss the whole area outright just because you found one suspicious drawing. The whole Roswell-Alien-UFO myth was build up to obsure the real stuff, you think you got a smoking gun?

[bard]

Heh, when the Besatzungsmacht just confiscates your research and patents, you'd be careful too.

Many things developed before 1945 popped up later as new inventions. Do some research on Lasers aka Death Ray. Or transistors and IC. Or Schauberger.

Besides, of course there's a lot of dis-info and obscure material. Doesn't mean you can dismiss the whole area outright just because you found one suspicious drawing. The whole Roswell-Alien-UFO myth was build up to obsure the real stuff, you think you got a smoking gun?

You guys are quick to jump the gun. Where did you see me dismiss the entire thread (which I myself started :)), let alone dismiss the whole area of research into German flying craft circa 1940s? I am just trying to be rational and objective and study the matter from scientific point of view. That particular drawing is fake, that's all I said.

If we reverse-engineer this technology the game is up for the powers that be. They are done and they know it. That's why this is the best kept secret of the last half a century.

I am wondering what happened to Vladimir Terziski since I could not find any recent traces of his whereabouts. My guess is that he is either dead or warned off to stay away from this area and keep a low profile.

I know all about Schauberger's work and I admire it. It may have led indirectly to the development of the mercury-vortex turbine (via his Repulsine air-driven prototype).

So chill out and go back to research this thing some more. I am doing the same ;).

[bard]

Here is an interesting piece of the puzzle that sheds some light on the story:

The Focke-Wulf Triebflügel Flugzeug

First I'll present the craft, then I'll explain how it fits in the story.

These pictures are modern day recreations, but the craft is quite real
http://ike.vivian.jp/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/FW_TF/tr15.jpg

http://www.silvamultimedia.com/Nazi/jet_Fighters/Focke_Wulf_Triebflugel_5.jpg

The design was particularly unusual. It had no wings, and all lift and thrust were provided by a rotor/propeller assembly in the middle of the craft (roughly halfway between cockpit and tailplane). When the plane was sitting on its tail in the vertical position, the rotors would have functioned similarly to a helicopter. When flying horizontally, they would function more like a giant propeller.

The three rotor blades were mounted on a ring assembly supported by bearings, allowing free rotation around the fuselage. At the end of each was a ramjet. To start the wings spinning, simple rockets would have been used. As the speed increased, the flow of air would be sufficient for the ramjets to work and the rockets would expire. The pitch of the blades could be varied with the effect of changing the speed and the lift produced. There was no reaction torque because the rotors were free-spinning. Fuel for the ramjets was carried in fuselage tanks, and was piped through the centre support ring and along the rotors to the jets.

A cruciform empennage at the rear of the fuselage comprised four tailplanes, fitted with moving ailerons that would have also functioned as combined rudders and elevators. The tailplane would have provided a means for the pilot to keep the fuselage from spinning in case of a slight friction against the rotor ring as well as controlling flight in pitch, roll and yaw.

A single large and sprung wheel in the extreme end of the fuselage provided the main undercarriage. Four small castoring wheels on extensible struts were placed at the end of each tailplane to steady the aircraft on the ground and allow it to be moved. The main and outrigger wheels were covered by streamlined clamshell doors when in flight.

When taking off the rotors would be angled to give lift as with a helicopter or more accurately a gyrodyne. Once the plane had attained sufficient altitude it could be angled into level flight. This required a slight nose-up pitch to give a downward thrust as well as primarily forward thrust - the rotors would have provided the only significant lift. Consequently, the four cannons in the forward fuselage would have been angled slightly downward in relation to the horizontal centre line of the fuselage.

To land, the craft had to slow its speed and pitch the fuselage until the craft was vertical. Power could then be reduced and it would descend until the landing gear rested on the ground. This would have been a tricky and probably dangerous manoeuvre given that the pilot would be seated facing upward and the ground would be behind his head at this stage. Unlike some other tailsitter aircraft, the pilot's seat was fixed in the direction for forward flight. The spinning rotor would also obscure rear vision.

This design was unique among 20th-century VTOL craft, and other German concept craft.



source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focke-Wulf_Fw_Triebfl%C3%BCgel

Terziiski discusses this craft in his book and he points out that this was an intermediate design, relying on a mixture of aerodynamic and anti-gravtitational lift. How does this work? First notice that the jet engines are mounted at the tip of the rotating rotor-wing. Since the moment of inertia of a body scales linearly with the mass, but quadratically with distance from the axis of rotation, the design will alow for significant increase of the moment of inertia and respectively the angular momentum. According to me, the anti-gravitational effect is generated by suitable coupling between the velocity of the body and its angular velocity (so that the helicity is opposite to that of the immediate physical environment). This can be easily tested through experimentation and I can be proven wrong or right. Now, I do not know what should be the direction of rotation of the rotating wing. The helicity of the aether depends on many factor, but mostly, I assume, on the rotation on nearby massive celestial objects. The Earth revolves around the Sun, so its helicity oscillates from negative in the spring, to positive in the fall, passing through zero at the solstices. The entire Solar System rotates and the Sun moves around the center of the Galaxy in about 250 million years. So the helicity of the Solar system would change too but very very slowly. As far as the Milky Way, we can assume that the spin and the velocity of the galaxy are roughly constant on the scale of the human evolution, so the dominant helicity comes from the spinning and moving galaxy.

Before there was Newton, before there was Einstein, there were Johannes Kepler and René Descartes. They tried to develop a vortex theory of planetary motion. Were they right? Just look at a galaxy:
http://jumk.de/astronomie/img/whirlpool.jpg

If planets, stars and galaxies create vortices in the aether, then why not just spin and push a body (or a field) so that it generates its own anti-vortex?

Newton started with the wrong model (point particles with no spin). We know that elementary particles have spin, and all celestial objects rotate. Who put the rotation there? God, said Newton, and he left the question at that.

Einstein picked the wrong mathematical tool for the job. He chose Riemannian Geometry.
But the Levi-Civita connection is symmetric by default and the torsion tensor of space-time is zero from the get go. He realized his mistake later when he tried to unify Electrodynamics and Gravtitation, but did not make much progress, or so I am told.

How many people have heard of the vortex theory of planetary motion? Not many, I reckon. Strangely, roughly around the same time when the Bank of England was set up, the Royal Society was formed, and British Freemasonry was founded. It is all pure coincedence I am sure ;).

[manxboz]

I must thank you for this amazing, informative thread. I have always had a 'secret' passion for the Nazi UFO theory ever since my father told me about it at 14. Everyone keep posting research, no matter how mudane you feel it to be, it might be what someone else was looking for.

~Namaste~

[orage]

Book Review: Nick Cook, The Hunt for Zero Point, Century/Random House, London 2001, 281 pp. hardcover, £17.99

On Third Reich Flying Saucers, German Physics, and the Perpetuum Mobile

By Germar Rudolf (http://www.vho.org/tr/2003/2/Rudolf229-234.html)

<snip the intro>

Revolution in Physics

The weakest point of Cook's book-due to the author's lack of scientific training-is at once its most fascinating: considerations of certain areas of scientific research that could alter our scientific worldview fundamentally, if new theories that were regarded as mere speculations should prove valid. Cook examines some of these areas with the help of a number of scientists. One point is that Einstein's theory of relativity may be in need of correction, since the proposition that objects can not move faster than the speed of light (ca. 300,000 km per second, or 1.08 million km per hour) may not hold.

The breakthrough in physical sciences anticipated for nearly a century with respect to the unification of the four natural forces (electromagnetism, gravity, strong and weak nuclear forces) may be at the point of a practical (partial) realization, because experiments carried out by physicists in the last ten years may prove that gravity can be screened by electromagnetic devices, and thus things placed "above" an electromagnetic field may be made weightless, so as to hover. Even more, one could even speak of a repelling effect here by which an object could be accelerated. The next step might be the generation of gravity beams which could cause things to have weight in certain directions.

There are a number of reasons to believe that our world is built in a way quite different than we have been accustomed to think. According to certain quantum theories, our world does not simply 'exist,' but is formed from the statistical appearance and disappearance of energy and material quanta, the so-called quantum background noise. Should it prove possible to tap this quantum noise (the so-called zero point energy) before it disappears again into nothingness, it would be possible to extract energy quasi out of nothing. What sounds like a perpetuum mobile, or rather, an apparatus that takes energy from the void-which contradicts all physics as now taught (the conservation of energy, the fundamental principle of thermodynamics)-would be relativized, since the theory assumes the existence of parallel universes, so that our 'energy from the void' pump would merely move energy from one parallel universe to another.

Moving faster than the speed of light, levitation, manipulation of gravity, tractor beams, parallel universes, hyperspace, zero point energy: does this all sound like the Star Trek? Yes, and if one believes it is real, that is what our future looks like. That is what Nick Cook thought when he published an article in Jane's Defence Weekly, "Warp Drive When?" (July 26, 2000)

Science or Humbug?

One can easily imagine what our establishment physicists think of all this, as it would turn all physics from the last 2000 years upside down. Yevgeni Podkletnov, a Russian physicist, is one of the leading physicists in the area of "revisionist" physics. When his gravity screening experiments had progressed to such a point that he wished to publish an article in one of the worldwide leading journals for physical science (Journal of Physics D: Applied Physics), it caused an unexpected uproar that caused a set back for the whole project of at least five years. Before the paper was published, Ian Sample of the Sunday Telegraph heard of the new revolutionary research and straightaway wrote a shocking article about it (see illustration) published on Sept. 1, 1996. The term "antigravity" used in this article, which is regarded as extremely unscientific, shed a negative light on the whole project and was devastating. The 'scientific community' launched a flurry of attacks and caused most of the other scientists involved in the project to get cold feet and withdraw their support for the article, leaving Podkletnov out in the rain. Further pressure from the 'scientific community' caused Podkletnov to lose his position at University of Tampere in Finland.[2]

The same thing happened to other scientists who got near this subject: they were made ridiculous by their colleagues, ostracized, often stripped of their honor and dignity, and frequently even having their careers ended. These are behavioral patterns that are only too familiar to Historical Revisionists and explain why Nick Cook found it difficult to draw a technical expert into conversation, since in such matters they shun the media like the devil shuns holy water.

Podkletnov's experiments,[3] however, were taken seriously enough that even NASA showed interest. Together with the University of Huntsville NASA carried out experiments along the lines Podkletnov had followed.[4]

Also, two of the world's leading aircraft manufacturers, Boeing and British Aerospace, started their own research projects (see illustrations).[1]

German Physics

After Cook received an experimental demonstration of 'revisionist' physics that convinced him that he was dealing with serious research, he took up again the pursuit of physics in the Third Reich, which, he believed, would bring him to the origin of the new 'revisionist' physics. Cook's reports on secret weapons research in the Third Reich are, as one might expect in the contemporary climate of opinion, colored with the usual polemic about the

http://www.vho.org/tr/2003/2/Image1204.jpghttp://www.vho.org/tr/2003/2/Image1205.jpg

Boeing test stand for gravity test in Seattle[1] Configuration of gravity modification experiment by Boeing[1]

'Empire of Evil,' but one should ignore it. The most interesting part of his investigation brought him into contact with the son of Viktor Schauberger, whose practical researches led to a number of revolutionary technologies, none of which were developed to the point of practical usefulness. Toward the end of the war, Schauberger collaborated on the development of German flying saucers. At the suggestion of a Polish researcher, Cook journeyed to Silesia and inspected a secret research facility whose purpose is now a mystery. Cook speculated on the basis of information he had collected that the site could have been a test stand for a prototype gravity-drive flying saucer (see illustration).

It is true that Schauberger was brought to America at the end of the war by Operation Paperclip, a program to kidnap leading German scientists and to bring them to the USA, but due to his age he had little success in the replication of his research-that, at least, is the official version.

Cook discusses briefly the desperate research conducted by the Third Reich in remote hideaways of science in the face of extremely limited resources in order to find technical solutions to their military problems. This despair had as one result that researchers were allowed to deviate from the accepted theories and to penetrate into areas deemed impossible by established physics. According to Cook, the Germans may have succeeded in developing a technology for screening gravity and maybe even for tapping zero point energy, without being entirely aware of the theoretical basis. Cook is effusively shocked at the possibility that the Third Reich, the 'Empire of Evil,' may have been at the threshold of getting access to unlimited energy resources and transport methods, based apparently on the victory of quantum theory over relativity theory, the victory of applied research over theoretical science, or, as Cook puts it, the victory of 'German physics' over 'Jewish physics,' as it was then polemically called in the Third Reich. What a horror that would have been, indeed!

... But They Hover After All!

Podkletnov has returned to Finland and has recently published an article in which he reports on successful experiments on the generation of gravity beams.[6]

He told Cook in a conversation that he had also succeeded in completely screening gravity from objects, thus enabling them to hover.

It appears that this technology has reached a point where practical applications are possible. Thus, Ning Li, who has done research for NASA at the University of Huntsville, Alabama, has withdrawn from the physics faculty of the University of Huntsville in order to devote herself to applying the results of her research to practical purposes. Cook stated that Podkletnov had received an offer from Toshiba to make his research results commercially useful.

Of course, there are many hangers-on involved here because this area of physics is new and little understood, it is difficult not just for the layman, but also for the technical specialist, to distinguish between serious research and charlatanry (see illustration). It should be kept in mind that specious promises of costless energy should not be lightly believed.

Reactions

Advertisement for an apparatus that solves all problems at once with the 'new physics.' This may be too much of a good thing.[5]
(click to view)

During a telephone conversation, Nick Cook told me what the reactions to his latest book were, which has become a bestseller in England. The book was favorably reviewed in the English daily newspaper The Guardian, in the science magazine New Scientist, and in a number of smaller English daily newspapers. Cook's colleagues at Jane's Defence Weekly were thoroughly approving of his work, and some of them congratulated him on its success. The reaction from the aeronautics and weapons industries was divided. While some rejected his main thesis of the emergence of a new physics, others thanked him for having opened their eyes. The 'scientific community' was also divided. Some of them dismissed Cook's work as nonsense, while others were grateful that he had popularized this interesting and controversial theme and had rescued it from oblivion. The most negative reaction came from a UFO researcher who called Cook a "neo-Nazi" because he said the historical origin of flying saucer technology was in the Third Reich. (UFO researchers want to believe in little green men.) This label is utter nonsense because Nick Cook's opinion of the Third Reich is, as has been stated, distinctly negative.

Nick Cook stated:

"It would be a mistake to disregard the research in Germany in the 1930s and 1940s just because it was done in the Third Reich. This kind of suppression of facts would be unscientific and would be just as bad as the suppression of facts that happened during that era."

So it may turn out that not only Otto, Diesel, Wankel, Jet and Rocket motors were invented in Germany, but also gravity motors-Nazis or no Nazis.

Notes

First published inVierteljahreshefte für freie Geschichtsforschung, 5(4) (2001), pp. 459-463; translated by Michael Humphrey.

A comprehensive collection of primary and secondary sources on this topic can be downloaded from www.aeronautics.ru/archive/gravity/gravitsapa.pdf (41 MB!). The following internet sites are good places to locate further literature:
www.inetarena.com/~noetic/pls/gravity.html;
www.omicron-research.com/RecDocD/introD.htm.

[1] www.aeronautics.ru/archive/gravity/gravitsapa.htm.
[2] Cf. the article in Wired, 6(3) (March 1998); www.wired.com/wired/archive/6.03/antigravity.html.
[3] Evgeny Podkletnov and R. Niemanen: "A Possibility of Gravitational Force Shielding by Bulk YBa2Cu3O7-x Superconductors", Physica C 203 (1992), pp. 441-444.
[4] Cf. Ning Li and D.G. Torr: "Effects of a Gravitomagnetic Field on Pure Superconductors", Physical Review D, (1991), pp. 457-459; Ning Li, D. Noever et. al.: "Static Test for a Gravitational Force Coupled to Type II YBCO Super-conductors", Physica C, 281 (1997), pp. 260-267.
[5] The information given at the website http://www.teslaelectric.com/ is so paltry and concentrates so much on advertising that it does not seem to be worthwhile.
[6] Evgeny Podkletnov, Giovanni Modanese, "Impulse Gravity Generator Based Y Ba2Cu3O7-y Superconductor with Composite Crystal Structure", http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/physics/0108005.

Source (http://www.vho.org/tr/2003/2/Rudolf229-234.html)

[coco]

Frankly, I thought the Focke Wulf Triebflügel would fly wobbly-like but I suppose the 'rotating wings' spun at such a rate as eliminate that. I wanted to see and example of it in flight and the closest I came is the video simulation below. I don't know how accurate it is, but notice when the craft comes down for its vertical landing that wobbling is there. Nerve wracking landing?

You mentioned rockets were used to initiate the spinning so a great deal of energy was used to power the craft for take off alone, such as the Harrier did, so it may not have had the ability to stay in flight for long? Especially having to supply three ramjets with fuel. [EDIT: While the rockets would burn out when their job was completed and the ramjets would take over from there, what I was trying to say was the three jets alone, in the 1940's, despite advanced technologies, would require a wealth of fuel in my guess. Anyone know how long the craft could stay aloft?]

There had to be ground crew instructing him during landing when he would bump earth or he might come in to fast and have an accident or too slow and think he was on the ground when in fact he wasn't. Or was there some other sort of system modality employed?

Nonetheless, an incredible bit of aviation history. Real thinking outside the box. Thanks for posting. :)

Video

TRIEBFLUGEL - YouTube

----------

The US tried their own brand of vertical lift craft but those planes were closer to traditional looking planes but with counter rotating nose props - that I can understand. I'm still kinda shaky on comprehending the Dragonfly's (Focke Wulf Triebflügel) stability issue.

[manxboz]

I have downloaded recently alot of documentarys upon this subject, i also have much paperwork upon it too. but one i came accross was called 'Nazi Disks' the introduction claims that the information for the film came from the T:.H:.G:. branch of the Knight's Templar, the highest order of Chivalry. What you make of this guys? If anyone needs it i can send them the file to their email etc. But it seems weird that the 'Knights Templar' would give out such information.

[tinyint]

I have downloaded recently alot of documentarys upon this subject, i also have much paperwork upon it too. but one i came accross was called 'Nazi Disks' the introduction claims that the information for the film came from the T:.H:.G:. branch of the Knight's Templar, the highest order of Chivalry. What you make of this guys? If anyone needs it i can send them the file to their email etc. But it seems weird that the 'Knights Templar' would give out such information.

I would be highly interested in them, if these were files.
There are some german sources which directly link to the Templars, but this have not been translated as far as I know.

[bard]

I would be highly interested in them, if these were files.
There are some german sources which directly link to the Templars, but this have not been translated as far as I know.

I posted a link to these clips on youtube in post #129 in this thread, at the very bottom of the post. There are 5 clips in all. They contain nothing that has not been discussed here already. I am still searching for these Terziiski tapes from the 1990s, he made about 20 movies and then vanished from the face of the Earth.

The Legend of Vladimir Terziski

by Jim Dilettoso, AlienZoo resident ufologist - 05/29/2000

"You look like millionaire on vacation," were the first words I ever heard from Vladimir Terziski. This was back in 1990. It was a typical UFO conference - the usual mix of researchers and sheep-herders at a San Diego resort. That year.s Alien Agenda Conference (one of Tim Beckley.s finest) was teeming with a fresh buzz of excitement. Erik Beckjord had just cold-cocked Bill Cooper. Christa Tilton had revealed her pregnancy with an alien. And Vladimir just revealed that the Nazis had built UFOs. Conferences don.t get any better.

At the time, I was used to hearing foreign accents. Brits and Frenchmen in rock and roll, Germans and Chinese . even Italians with a Southern drawl . at my company, Village Labs. But there was something very strange about the way Vladimir said "meel-yunayre un vay-kashun" that made me stop and ponder. He reminded me of the TV comedian Yakov Smirnoff.

Vladimir spoke with authority. He was very precise. He selected words carefully. Why was he addressing me, though? It was then when I realized that he didn.t really know me from UFO-TV, or my lab work. I thought he might have wanted simply to talk to my exotic blonde friend.

"So, did you hear my lecture?" he asked.

"Sorry, we missed it," I replied. "Please allow us to introduce ourselves. I am Jim Dilettoso and this is Susan Gordon. And you are . . . ?"

"I am so pleazeded too meat you," Vladimir replied with a conviction and warmth that belied the intellectual rigor that had been bred into the core of the Hungarian.s being. "I am scientist from Russian Academy of Sciences. Do you have UFO video we can trade?"

I let him know that I wasn.t there actually speaking this time, that my band, UFAUX, was performing at the banquet party. (I had long since discovered that you can stay out of the line of fire if you perform at these things, instead of speak!) Problem was, my UFO video collection was back in Arizona.

"Great. I.ll come to Arizona," Vladimir confirmed.

And after a full weekend of more deliberate intellectual intoxication than a man should be allowed, we headed back to Arizona. So did Vladimir, who drove a Volvo station wagon pumped full of videotapes and paperwork, with only a slight amount of room for the cooler. I never did hear him lecture, but once he was at my ranch, I got the full monty. We actually became great friends.

He told me that he was the Hungarian who was calling me in 1985. And that it was our many phone discussions that motivated him to defect to the U.S. Legend had it, though, that he was still a KGB double agent. That wasn.t possible, I thought: He.s too short to be a secret agent! Besides, he has the best UFO video collection I.ve ever seen.

My home, the Flying Heart Ranch in Paradise Valley Arizona, was a great place to bring foreign dignitaries. A sprawling horse ranch built in 1947, with multiple guest houses and great oriental landscaping, my home made the perfect setting for getting someone to "loosen up." And loosen up Vladimir did. I heard all about it. Not only did I get to see all the videos he had been collecting, but I got to hear about his day job . his spooky business.

Vladimir was a "scientific investigator," as he put it. His interest became his passion, and his passion became his assignment. He investigated the paranormal and scientific secrets of the Third Reich. He harbored no sympathies for the Nazis. He wasn.t even interested in the regime.s philosophy. But he was immersed in their secrets.

In the '70s and '80s, the KGB controlled East Germany and East Berlin. This provided the basis for the unraveling of the bizarre tale of Hitler's UFOs. Not only had the Third Reich built them, but the people who built them are still alive today . and building UFOs in South America. Vladimir had pictures to prove it all.

The big question in Vladimir's mind was not whether or not they had built UFOs, but whether or not aliens had helped. Having read Morning of the Magicians, I was well-versed in the concepts that the Third Reich had used . magic, astrology, sacred geometry, llamas, and priests from Tibet who barked at the moon to get more power. I didn.t know if any of it was true, but I appreciated Vladimir.s quick wit and tenacity.

To me, the issues were much more fundamental. If Werner Von Braun et. al., the key Nazi space scientists, had worked on flying disks and levitation machines . with or without aliens . why did they build rockets and tin cans for NASA? Had the aliens abandoned them? Were the Germans holding back this secret knowledge? Was the Third . or Fourth . Reich alive and well in Brazil, building UFOs, commanding the New World Order from the Bilderberg-Hapsburg empire and keeping the traitor Nazis under their thumb at NASA? If any of this was true, then world politics far superceded any provincial rocket building.

Vladimir had a wealth of impressive knowledge of physics, aerospace, and UFO propulsion theory. But was he bamboozled, or was he putting in the plumbing? The pictures and blueprints he had were seemingly genuine. Other UFO investigators were also on the bandwagon. Valery Uvarov, Victor Kostrikin, and even famed Russian Cosmonaut Marina Popovich were convinced of their authenticity.

As the years have gone by, Vladimir Terziski has become famous in these circles. His two-hour lectures, followed by three-hour question-and-answer sessions, can hold just about any standing-room only crowd. He.s frequently dismissed as a kook, but then again, most UFO investigators are known as that in some circles, just for different reasons. If aliens had helped the Third Reich, then God save us all.

[tinyint]

I posted a link to these clips on youtube in post #129 in this thread, at the very bottom of the post. There are 5 clips in all. They contain nothing that has not been discussed here already. I am still searching for these Terziiski tapes from the 1990s, he made about 20 movies and then vanished from the face of the Earth.

Thanks, it was a misunderstanding, since I tought he'd have documents.
The documentary is already on my YT channel since some time.

In the '70s and '80s, the KGB controlled East Germany and East Berlin. This provided the basis for the unraveling of the bizarre tale of Hitler's UFOs. Not only had the Third Reich built them, but the people who built them are still alive today . and building UFOs in South America. Vladimir had pictures to prove it all.

Again, you posted nothing new to me, I was at the point you are 15 years ago.
I was born in the region where the weapons were built, and still no, the source of these "UFO" are German people, no Terzinski or any other foreigner. ;)
But surely the soviets as well as the US tried to gather the missing projects, without success me thinks.

I regard the whole thread more a sort of voluntary contribution of things which have been rumored since the end of the war but veiled by occupier laws.

I guess it has to take as usual the americans to finally reveal and most importantly sell the truth.
We are just dumb germans who lost the war. :rolleyes:

No pun intended.

[bard]

Again, you posted nothing new to me, I was at the point you are 15 years ago.
I was born in the region where the weapons were built, and still no, the source of these "UFO" are German people, no Terzinski or any other foreigner. ;)
But surely the soviets as well as the US tried to gather the missing projects, without success me thinks.

I regard the whole thread more a sort of voluntary contribution of things which have been rumored since the end of the war but veiled by occupier laws.

I guess it has to take as usual the americans to finally reveal and most importantly sell the truth.
We are just dumb germans who lost the war. :rolleyes:

No pun intended.

tinyint, your statements in this post are a bit pompous and even foolish. I am no captain Han Solo (stupid arrogant lucky American). The fact that I live in the States does not mean that I am an Amerrican, either by birth or by citizenship.

For those who are interested in the topic I recommend the following book, a bit on the debunking side (some common sense is needed anyway), but nevertheless interesting:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51XF8Y8XPCL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

Parts of the book can be read online here:

http://books.google.com/books?id=26v0qQcI0vwC&printsec=frontcover&dq=Arktos&source=bl&ots=FxgZ2NbfZS&sig=6FjEntyzrNLdK2a2AEmZNzxsqLc&hl=en&ei=BKzDS73UA8H78Aap6d3NDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CBMQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q&f=false

With this I finish my contribution to this thread.

[tinyint]

tinyint, your statements in this post are a bit pompous and even foolish. I am no captain Han Solo (stupid arrogant lucky American). The fact that I live in the States does not mean that I am an Amerrican, either by birth or by citizenship.

For those who are interested in the topic I recommend the following book, a bit on the debunking side (some common sense is needed anyway), but nevertheless interesting:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51XF8Y8XPCL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

Parts of the book can be read online here:

http://books.google.com/books?id=26v0qQcI0vwC&printsec=frontcover&dq=Arktos&source=bl&ots=FxgZ2NbfZS&sig=6FjEntyzrNLdK2a2AEmZNzxsqLc&hl=en&ei=BKzDS73UA8H78Aap6d3NDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CBMQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q&f=false

With this I finish my contribution to this thread.

Then why do you behave like Solo?

I mentioned the Nurflügler, you said stick to the topic. Pages later you post the Triebflügel.:rolleyes:

I provided a most valuable thread, you chose to smash it because tachyons were not discovered by official science until the 60ies. Did you even read the nexus thread?
You put up an ego show, I reacted.

Thank you, but pompous was you on this thread. Maybe you should go back to Europe. :D

[astrochicken]

Lake Figurnoye

Operation HIGH JUMP: Antarctica has Warm Inner Lakes in Bunger Hills Area! - YouTube

[coco]

I can't account for the accuracy of the information in this video:

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

[manxboz]

I can't account for the accuracy of the information in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EY97Z60GvEY&feature=related

cyraxandflyrax would actually have good videos if he didn't make them all flashly like trying to be subliminal and say how he is part of a secret society that'll pass negative energy back to anyone who doesn't agree with his vids etc. I can not watch a vid of his, i just wait till they load up and scoll though them.

He does have some good info though. But the way he tries to get it across puts people off.

[shankers]

Might be old news for some of you here, but the following footnote in a well-respected academic book alludes to what sounds like Nazi UFOs:

The book is by Robert Jungk, and it is called Brighter than A Thousand Suns: The Moral and Political History of the Atomic Scientists (Pelican, 1965).

Page 87 footnote:

“The only exception to the lack of interest shown by authority was constituted by the Air Ministry. The Air Force research workers were in a peculiar position. They produced interesting new types of aircraft such as the Delta (triangular) and ‘flying discs’. The first of these ‘flying saucers’, as they were later called – circular in shape, with a diameter of some 45 yards – were built by the specialists Schriever, Habermohl and Miethe. They were first airborne on 14 February 1945 over Prague and reached in three minutes a height of nearly eight miles. they had a flying speed of 1250 mph which was doubled in subsequent tests. It is believed that after the war Habermohl fell into the hands of the Russians. Miethe developed at a later date similar ‘flying saucers’ at A V Roe and Company for the United States.”

[manxboz]

Here is a great desposit of information, much including Nazi secret tech and the whole Anarcatica. http://worldtoday.wikidot.com/bibliotecapleyades-net

[coco]

I happened to catch the last bit of a History Channel repeat last night when I arrived home from work last. It reminded me of The Bell information I am reading. I think I may have seen that episode before and if I have, I'd forgotten all about it/

The program referenced the Vimanas [mythological flying machines] and the descriptions of mercury use in a flying machine. Did the Nazi UFO scientists study the Vimanas' texts or did they rediscover it independently?

I found an article this morning that mentions this:

*snip*

http://www.crystalinks.com/vimanas.html

Mythological Descriptions

Sanskrit texts are filled with references to gods who fought battles in the sky using Vimanas equipped with weapons as deadly as any we can deploy in these more enlightened times.

In the Ramayana there is a passage in the Ramayana which reads:

"The Pushpaka chariot that resembles the Sun and belongs to my brother was brought by the powerful Ravana; that aerial and excellent car going everywhere at will .... that car resembling a bright cloud in the sky ... and the King [Rama] got in, and the excellent car at the command of the Raghira, rose up into the higher atmosphere.'"

"Pushpaka" is Sanskrit for "flowery". It is the first flying vimana mentioned in Hindu mythology (as distinct from gods' flying horse-drawn chariots). It is also called Pushpaka Vimana.

The special characteristic of this vehicle is, "What ever may be the number of people sitting in it, always there will be one more seat vacant i.e., If N people sit, There will be (N+1) seats". It was basically a vehicle that could soar the skies for long distances. It shows that even in ancient times, people were curious about flight and might have tried to design flying vehicles.

Pushpaka was originally made by Maya for Kubera, the God of wealth, but was later stolen, along with Lanka, by his half-brother, the demon king Ravana.

The core epic of the Mahabharata mentions no vimanas, but vimanas often occur in the large amount of matter which was added to the Mahabharata corpus later. One example is that the Asura Maya had a Vimana measuring twelve cubits in circumference, with four strong wheels.

The Mahabharata is a veritable gold mine of information relating to conflicts between gods who are said to have settled their differences apparently using weapons as lethal as those we have now. Apart from 'blazing missiles', the poem records the use of other deadly weapons. 'Indra's Dart' (Indravajra) operated via a circular 'reflector'. When switched on, it produced a 'shaft of light' which, when focused on any target, immediately 'consumed it with its power'.

In one exchange, the hero, Krishna, is pursuing his enemy, Salva, in the sky, when Salva's Vimana, the Saubha, is made invisible in some way. Undeterred, Krishna immediately fires off a special weapon: "I quickly laid on an arrow, which killed by seeking out sound". Many other terrible weapons are described, quite matter-of-factly, in the Mahabharata, but the most fearsome of all is the one used against the Vrishis. The narrative records:

"Gurkha flying in his swift and powerful Vimana hurled against the three cities of the Vrishis and Andhakas a single projectile charged with all the power of the Universe. An incandescent column of smoke and fire, as brilliant as ten thousands suns, rose in all its splendour. It was the unknown weapon, the Iron Thunderbolt, a gigantic messenger of death which reduced to ashes the entire race of the Vrishnis and Andhakas."

It is important to note, that these kinds of records are not isolated. They can be cross-correlated with similar reports in other ancient civilizations. The after-affects of this Iron Thunderbolt have an ominously recognizable ring. Apparently, those killed by it were said to be so burnt that their corpses were unidentifiable. The survivors fared little better, as it caused their hair and nails to fall out. [Radioactive?- Coco]

Perhaps the most disturbing and challenging, information about these allegedly mythical Vimanas in the ancient records is that there are some matter-of-fact records, describing how to build one. In their way, the instructions are quite precise.

The Mahabharata also tells of the awesome destructiveness of the war: "... (the weapon was) a single projectile charged with all the power of the Universe. An incandescent column of smoke and flame as bright as the thousand suns rose in all its splendour... An iron thunderbolt, a gigantic messenger of death, which reduced to ashes the entire race of the Vrishnis and the Andhakas.... the corpses were so burned as to be unrecognizable. The hair and nails fell out; pottery broke without apparent cause, and the birds turned white.... after a few hours all foodstuffs were infected.... to escape from this fire, the soldiers threw themselves in streams to wash themselves and their equipment..." Some say that the Mahabharata is describing an atomic war. References like this one are not isolated; but battles, using a fantastic array of weapons and aerial vehicles are common in all the epic Indian books. One even describes a Vimana-Vailix battle on the Moon! The above section very accurately describes what an atomic explosion would look like and the effects of the radioactivity on the population. Jumping into water is the only respite.

In the Sanskrit Samarangana Sutradhara (Literally, "controller of the battlefield"), it is written:

"Strong and durable must the body of the Vimana be made, like a great flying bird of light material. Inside one must put the mercury engine with its iron heating apparatus underneath. By means of the power latent in the mercury which sets the driving whirlwind in motion, a man sitting inside may travel a great distance in the sky. The movements of the Vimana are such that it can vertically ascend, vertically descend, move slanting forwards and backwards. With the help of the machines human beings can fly in the air and heavenly beings can come down to earth."

In Mesopotamian sources -- The Hakatha (Laws of the Babylonians) states quite unambiguously:

"The privilege of operating a flying machine is great. The knowledge of flight is among the most ancient of our inheritances. A gift from 'those from upon high'. We received it from them as a means of saving many lives."

More fantastic still is the information given in the ancient Chaldean work, The Sifrala, which contains over one hundred pages of technical details on building a flying machine. It contains words which translate as graphite rod, copper coils, crystal indicator, vibrating spheres, stable angles, etc.

[tinyint]

Thanks to coco, who made me aware of this series...

Ancient Aliens 2010

I extracted from part 3 the following image...

http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/582/haunebu.png

Now, this is the Haunebu II German disc, but they don't tell you that.

http://ensemble.va.com.au/tableau/suzy/TT_ResearchProjects/Hexen2039pics/vrilthule/haunebu-2.jpg

http://www.eyepod.org/sitebuilder/images/I_Haunebu2-01_1_-413x236.jpg

or as known as the Adamski "UFO"

http://www.eyepod.org/images/ufo_george_adamski_1_.gif

The truth is coming forth, but as usual they feed it incomplete. ;)

Also, I think Mr Eenboom (intentionally?... considering german laws and mindprison) errs when talking about a mercury vortex drive, as J.P.Farrell and I.Witkowski have shown.

Oh, and coco...
+1 for the above post :)

[astrochicken]

tales (posts) from the time loop

3-dimensional vortex and a 2-dimensional swastikah.


http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/8321/spirasvasava.gif



The cover of the tibetan book of the dead
http://images.tribe.net/tribe/upload/photo/95e/75a/95e75ac2-a991-4d5c-a3c8-1b3209aecffb.large-profile.jpg


Take note of the swastika/david star in the center.. here's the *raelian* logo

http://z.about.com/d/altreligion/1/0/e/0/-/-/raelian-swastika.jpg

I see:

1. a star of david
2. a swastika
3. the "sig" rune
4. a "wolfsangel"


As regards the swastika and the star of david.. me thinks you can't have one without the other.

[manxboz]

I have the First Complete Translation of The Tibetan Books of the Dead and cannot anywhere find the swastika. I don't doubt you, as there is enough evidence online for it.

[tinyint]

Yesterday, Haim Saban owned N24 News Channel aired a documantary about german disc projects and the Bell, featuring Igor Witkowski.

The docu admits what has been sufferd years of ridicule and denial, thaks to the evil Frankfurt school brainwashing.
People have been imprisoned or sent to in a metal hospital, eg Ernst Zündel

The documentary is producted in GB, so my question is, what is its original title?

Here is the german version...

Das UFO-Projekt der Nazis
Part1
Doku - Das UFO-Projekt der Nazis (Teil 1/5) - YouTube
Part2
Doku - Das UFO-Projekt der Nazis (Teil 2/5) - YouTube
Part3
Doku - Das UFO-Projekt der Nazis (Teil 3/5) - YouTube
Part4
Doku - Das UFO-Projekt der Nazis (Teil 4/5) - YouTube
Part5
Doku - Das UFO-Projekt der Nazis (Teil 5/5) - YouTube

Lol @ our helpless impostor "govt" :p

[coco]

I'm looking for the English version.

EDIT: Just ran through the end of part 5 to look at the credits - it's a Discovery Channel Production.

EDIT EDIT: This looks like it. I've compared the German part 1 with the English part 1

Nazi UFO Conspiracy Part 1

Nazi UFO Conspiracy (1 of 6) - YouTube

The English and German titles for the program are not the same :mad: throwing me off.

[coco]

The smart otter would have looked at the bottom right corner of the screen of the German language version and noticed it was a Discovery production sooner. :rolleyes:

[manxboz]

The smart otter would have looked at the bottom right corner of the screen of the German language version and noticed it was a Discovery production sooner. :rolleyes:
I also have this downloaded on my laptop. should have popped on sooner and said somthing.:o

[dontbeafraid]

There is something funny here.
http://www.kheichhorn.de/assets/images/haunebu_I-Plan.jpg

The drawing shows Haunebu I (with SS logo and all) and it lists the engine as Thule-Tachyonator 7b

Tachyon is a particle that travels faster than light. The problem is that the very term "tachyon" was introduced only in 1960s by Gerald Feinberg. So I do not think that the drawing is genuine. It is fake - somebody's speculation regarding the construction of the German craft. And the drawing itself does not seem professional enough, I've seen quite a few real technical drawings in my life, the Germans are fanatical about order (Ordnung), this just does not seem right.

There are many false leads out there, some put there intentionally, some are instead due to the over-enthusiasm of the researchers who investigate this obscure and dangerous topic.

I studied at a technical college in Germany, and you are 100% correct. The technical drawing is not from someone who has studied technical drawing in Germany. The windows are crooked, the dash lines are not correctly spaced and not of the right lenght, they did'nt even use the correct sized pens, etc. The person who drew that was right handed, and never learned how to draw straight lines when freehand drawing downward from left to right, normally one would use a straight edge if one had trouble doing that.

[coco]

I also have this downloaded on my laptop. should have popped on sooner and said somthing.:o

Thank you. :) I too downloaded this and watched it last night. Pretty neat doco but very fast paced and glossed over many details. I think they could have gone much more in depth with a series of episodes instead.

EDIT: A good primer nonetheless to incite interest.

[guuna]

this is spooky hitlers body never found people!

probably Hitler never died in that Bunker, more likely relocated along with many other Nazi officials and scientists to South America from where areas of nazi industrial research and covert technologies were continued.

The corpses that the Russians claimed to be Hitler's and Braun's were most likely not.

[manxboz]

probably Hitler never died in that Bunker, more likely relocated along with many other Nazi officials and scientists to South America from where areas of nazi industrial research and covert technologies were continued.

The corpses that the Russians claimed to be Hitler's and Braun's were most likely not.

Well it was proven that the skull piece was that of a young female. There is alot of evidence (i think) to show that Hitler escaped, like the plane landing and taking off under fire near the reichstag (with mytherious passengers), the disappearence of many high commanders during the last days of the war, the thousands of labourers (slave and contracted) scienctists and military personal vanished as if never there from facilities across the Reich. U-Boats never being found or being found months or even years later. Various Germna speaking people turning up years after in different countries with no recollection.

[rodin]

Thanks to coco, who made me aware of this series...

Ancient Aliens 2010 (http://www.youtube.com/user/TinyInt64#grid/user/F636EBB3E1136FFC)

I extracted from part 3 the following image...

http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/582/haunebu.png

Now, this is the Haunebu II German disc, but they don't tell you that.

http://ensemble.va.com.au/tableau/suzy/TT_ResearchProjects/Hexen2039pics/vrilthule/haunebu-2.jpg

http://www.eyepod.org/sitebuilder/images/I_Haunebu2-01_1_-413x236.jpg

or as known as the Adamski "UFO"

http://www.eyepod.org/images/ufo_george_adamski_1_.gif

The truth is coming forth, but as usual they feed it incomplete. ;)

Also, I think Mr Eenboom (intentionally?... considering german laws and mindprison) errs when talking about a mercury vortex drive, as J.P.Farrell and I.Witkowski have shown.

Oh, and coco...
+1 for the above post :)

How do we know Adamski didn't just make a model based on Nazi drawings and hoax his entire story like most seem to have done (if not all)

[manxboz]

How do we know Adamski didn't just make a model based on Nazi drawings and hoax his entire story like most seem to have done (if not all)

I mean that Adamski photo was taken December 13th, 1952. How much was known about Nazi UFO's? He didn't serve in WW2, so wouldn't have likely had much contact or anything? But I would say that he probaly met a German UFO with Blonde Hair SS men and they span him a bunch of lies for some reason. Most photo experts say that this photo is either real or was a full scale model.

[tinyint]

I mean that Adamski photo was taken December 13th, 1952. How much was known about Nazi UFO's? He didn't serve in WW2, so wouldn't have likely had much contact or anything? But I would say that he probaly met a German UFO with Blonde Hair SS men and they span him a bunch of lies for some reason. Most photo experts say that this photo is either real or was a full scale model.

I find this the most likely explanation for this as well.
I agree.

Anyway, the point in my post wasn't Adamski but the model they used in the recent Ancient Aliens series.
Why do they resort to German drawings(Haunebu II), they could present any design!? Is this all part of some half hearted disclosure approach?
If I wanted to finally disclose WWII files, I would be in serious trouble due to the tremendous lies over decades. How to do it?
They are in a dead end street full of lies and cannot really go back.

[coco]

As has been evidenced in this very forum, there is still much misconception about the war and just whose role was really whose. Additionally, it is finally starting to come out bit by bit, more and more, just how many Nazi's were permitted into the US. Permitted with the full knowledge and blessing of the US government and CIA files sealed still to this day, although some partial file information is being released to the public.

[arbonautti]

This point is certainly some strange mystery, why it was ruled out by court. The 'why detail' to this support Hoagland, Farrell and Marrs thesis, I think.
If the war was finished, germany or better the Reich defeated (besides a still missing peace treaty with the still existing Reich), why the hell would rule the highest court in former west germany that the Reich still exists and the FRG is not successor of the Reich? I think this is more than a formal fault.

Interesting treaty add on...
Articles of the Antarctic Treaty

* Article 1 – area to be used for peaceful purposes only; military activity, such as weapons testing, is prohibited, but military personnel and equipment may be used for scientific research or any other peaceful purpose;
* Article 2 – freedom of scientific investigation and cooperation shall continue;
* Article 3 – free exchange of information and personnel in cooperation with the United Nations and other international agencies;
* Article 4 – the treaty does not recognize, dispute, nor establish territorial sovereignty claims; no new claims shall be asserted while the treaty is in force;
* Article 5 – prohibits nuclear explosions or disposal of radioactive wastes;
* Article 6 – includes under the treaty all land and ice shelves south of 60 degrees 00 minutes south;
* Article 7 – treaty-state observers have free access, including aerial observation, to any area and may inspect all stations, installations, and equipment; advance notice of all activities and of the introduction of military personnel must be given;
* Article 8 – allows for jurisdiction over observers and scientists by their own states;
* Article 9 – frequent consultative meetings take place among member nations;
* Article 10 – treaty states will discourage activities by any country in Antarctica that are contrary to the treaty;
* Article 11 – disputes to be settled peacefully by the parties concerned or, ultimately, by the International Court of Justice;
* Articles 12, 13, 14 – deal with upholding, interpreting, and amending the treaty among involved nations.

International law and courts is one key aspect.

Article 4 is misleading as the treaty broadens the supranational byrocracy and gives control of the Antarctic to it.

In Orage's post (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1058748467&postcount=97) we see the expansion of the International Law and Jurisdiction.

The Outer Space Treaty, formally known as the Treaty on Principles Governing the Activities of States in the Exploration and Use of Outer Space, including the Moon and Other Celestial Bodies, is a treaty that forms the basis of international space law.

The Moon Treaty or Moon Agreement, is an international treaty that turns jurisdiction of all heavenly bodies (including the orbits around such bodies) over to the international community. Thus, all activities must conform to international law (notably this includes the UN Charter).
The international community is euphemism for supranational powerstructure.

Smaller players are guided to give birth to a bigger organism.

Noahide Nations (http://noahidenations.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=549:noahide-nations-rabbinical-advisory-board&catid=88888920:organization&Itemid=88988959) are groupies led by the God's Selfchosen Ones establishing Courts of Justice. (http://noahidenations.com/content/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=142)

Mankind is commanded to establish courts of justice and a just social order to enforce the six laws and enact any other useful laws or customs.

What follows is a reference to laws of justice for it says in Genesis 18:19, "For I have known him so he will command (Yitzaveh) his children after him to keep the way of the Lord and righteousness and justice."

We can further learn from the story of Shechem, Dinah, and the sons of Jacob. In Genesis 34:2 it relates, "Shechem, son of Hamor the Hivvite, the prince of the land, saw her; he took her, and he lay with her, and violated her." His "taking" her against her will was a form of kidnapping, which was forbidden as a type of theft. Since the men of Shechem's city did not convene a court of justice and convict him for his crimes, they failed to obey this commandment and also collectively became accomplices to his crime. Jacob's sons therefore formed a court, convicted them, and executed them. Also see Gen. 6:5-7 & Gen. 19:1-9.

Establishment of Laws and Courts of Justice encompasses the following:

1. to appoint judges and officers in each and every community;
2. to treat the litigants equally before the law
3. to inquire diligently into the testimony of a witness
4. against the wanton miscarriage of justice by the court;
5. against the judge accepting a bribe or gift from a litigant
6. against the judge showing marks of honor to but one litigant
7. against the judge acting in fear of a litigant's threats;
8. against the judge, out of compassion, favoring a poor litigant
9. against the judge discriminating against the litigant because he is a sinner
10. against the judge, out of softness, putting aside the penalty of a mauler or killer
11. against the judge discriminating against a stranger or an orphan
12. against the judge hearing one litigant in the absence of the other
13. against appointing a judge who lacks knowledge of the Law
14. against the court killing an innocent man
15. against incrimination by circumstantial evidence
16. against punishing for a crime committed under duress
17. that the court is to administer the death penalty by the sword
18. against anyone taking the law into his own hands to kill the perpetrator of a capital crime (this point is disagreed upon by different writers: ("The Noahides are not restricted in this way but may judge singly and at once.")
19. to testify in court; and
20. against testifying falsely.

Equality before the law when we are talking about separate slave laws for the less-worthy!

There are loads of these sites. They are very active. Here's one more. (http://www.moshiach.com/e-book-noahide-how-to/courts-of-law.html)
3. The only punishment meted out by the Noahide courts of law in criminal cases is the death penalty.[3]

...

6. In civil matters, that is, cases between individual parties, later authorities question whether the Noahide is commanded to follow the same principles as Jewish law and Jewish courts, or whether he is to follow rulings established by his own Noahide courts and laws.

Although the Noahide courts are responsibile for only the Seven Universal Laws, not the 613 laws of the Torah, there is an opinion that each decision of the Noahide courts must follow its counterpart in Jewish Law. The accepted opinion, however, is that Noahide judges and courts of law are to render legal decisions according to their own laws and principles of law.
These guys are having prayer hours at the White House and most of the jews in politics are orthodoxes - after all it is a genetic mafia which encodified biological group dynamics from a hardcore parasitical pov.

Another group working inside the legal system.
http://www.jlaw.com/
They're banging through precedents given in jewish courts outside the USA and those guys go hand in hand with whoever puppet is put on the pedestal. Yep, must be the Hollywood Nazis in control.

The Law is the Babylonian Talmud and the controlling technology is the Kabbalah. Jews as biological entity are very harmful for us, and aim (as led by their elite and cultural structure) for total world domination, but are not the whole deal.

[mally_lentil]

What bothers me about is that if the Americans gleaned anti-gravity technology from Schauberger et al via operation paperclip then why wouldn't they have used that tech for the space missions?

Clearly the USA don't have this tech.

[manxboz]

What bothers me about is that if the Americans gleaned anti-gravity technology from Schauberger et al via operation paperclip then why wouldn't they have used that tech for the space missions?

Clearly the USA don't have this tech.

Who says they haven't?

It is a 'common' known factor that there is always two projects working on the same thing, one is public but one is black. Same goes for the space race.

[tinyint]

Who says they haven't?

It is a 'common' known factor that there is always two projects working on the same thing, one is public but one is black. Same goes for the space race.

Yes, but the secret program may not be under US control, although (partly) based in the US.

[manxboz]

Yes, but the secret program may not be under US control, although (partly) based in the US.

Yes, very possible. But that would still mean that the US, in whatever guise, has access to that tech.

[entrangermercenary]

:)

[tinyint]

Adrian Salbuchi - World War II U-Boats & Byrd's Antarctic Mission

Jeff Rense talks with Adrian Salbuchi about WWII U-Boats, Admiral Byrd's Antarctic Mission, inner earth, UFO's and hight tech post war Nazi technology.


YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

[soleil]

I was just about to post the Adrian Salbuchi broadcast. Very interesting.

[tinyint]

I was just about to post the Adrian Salbuchi broadcast. Very interesting.

Yeah, even more though since he is Argentinian.
Many also know this here since 65 years now, but its forbidden knowledge, even persecuted and informing websites are taken constantly down.
We must not know. :rolleyes:

[guuna]

Yeah, even more though since he is Argentinian.
Many also know this here since 65 years now, but its forbidden knowledge, even persecuted and informing websites are taken constantly down.
We must not know. :rolleyes:

yes a very interesting interview, thanks for posting.

[coco]

Adrian Salbuchi - World War II U-Boats & Byrd's Antarctic Mission



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxlsadauLss

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff207/cruiselover1989/Spock/Fascinating.jpg

[tinyint]

Nassim Haramein - The Schwarzschild Proton (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1059598320&postcount=32)

[soleil]

Is the current Russian expedition on Antartica going anywhere near Neuschwabenland?

[orage]

Thanks for the link.

Two thoughts:

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff207/cruiselover1989/Spock/Fascinating.jpg

Makes you wonder not only about the Falkland war, but also the economic collapse of Argentina (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentine_economic_crisis_(1999–2002))

Argentina was subject to military dictatorship (alternating with weak, short-lived democratic governments) for many years, that resulted in a number of significant economic problems. During the National Reorganization Process (1976–1983) huge debt was acquired for money that was later lost in unfinished projects, the Falklands War, and the state's takeover of private debts; in this period, a neoliberal economic platform was introduced. By the end of the military government the country's industries were severely affected and unemployment, calculated at 18% (though official figures claimed 5%), was at its highest point since the Great Depression.

In 1983, democracy in the country was restored with the election of president Raúl Alfonsín. The new government's plans included stabilizing Argentina's economy including the creation of a new currency (the austral, first of its kind not to carry the word peso as part of its name), for which new loans were required. The state eventually became unable to pay the interest of this debt and confidence in the austral collapsed.

Throwing countries into debt has always a fav of the criminal gang. Economic warfare?

The very first sentence was kinda a "duh" moment. The two world wars were one, and Europe lost. The Old World Order was finished, and Britain helped bring that about. The irony is that the thanks for Britains help was massive debt and the end of their Empire.

@ 21:40 "And you also wonder... why has there been such a demonization... why has there been this martian UFO talk since 1945?" -- Why indeed.

[sandfordhilldave]

The latest Call of duty game, Black Ops, is about to release an add on where the user gets to have gunfights at a nazi base in the antarctic.

Just sayin' :D

[orage]

^^

There are currently a lot of pop-culture references. See this Bud Light commercial, complete with All-seeing-eye, Ufo abduction, and alien chicks clad in black.

Bud Light Commercial - Close Encounters -HD - YouTube

Here we go!

[tinyint]

^^

There are currently a lot of pop-culture references. See this Bud Light commercial, complete with All-seeing-eye, Ufo abduction, and alien chicks clad in black.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDgxCa_iDxE

Here we go!

Well, the alien bud would be way better than that watery poison. Anyway, its a crime to miscredit a name like Budweis and it must be stopped :D

[orage]

Well, the alien bud would be way better than that watery poison. Anyway, its a crime to miscredit a name like Budweis and it must be stopped :D

I was going to make a reference to the watery product...

"Bud is like making love in a Canoe. F*cking close to water!" :D

[prnkstr]

Exiting....though if Nazi Germany actually DID recover some kind of technological wonders, why the heck did they not use that to win the war? Was the whole thing just a cover up in order to peacefully extract some sort of alien technology or discover the entrance to the "inner earth"? You dont need to start a war to get away with secret expeditions...

[tinyint]

Michael Schratt Pt2

http://www.youtube.com/v/OcGJpd2aW_c

PROJECT CAMELOT: MICHAEL SCHRATT PART TWO - YouTube

It strikes me, we've been spot on. ;)

[orage]

Exiting....though if Nazi Germany actually DID recover some kind of technological wonders, why the heck did they not use that to win the war? Was the whole thing just a cover up in order to peacefully extract some sort of alien technology or discover the entrance to the "inner earth"? You dont need to start a war to get away with secret expeditions...

The following may be shocking for those only versed in history the hollywood way...

If you're disappointed with a bumbling leadership that squanders technological advantage... like they did with jet fighters for 4 years.

And personage (i.e. Göring and Hitler) that has very little understanding in military leadership. Hitler send his Soldiers to Russia without winter clothing, and wouldn't allow even tactical retreat to better positions for example. What would you do, if you love your country and see there's a coming doom? Remember there were concrete plans to flatten Germany, (Morgenthau et all) and wipe it off the map, giving parts to Russia, Poland and France.

So you can't win the war, but you can influence the peace. What would you do if you had a few prototypes of Rundflugscheiben that are better at recognizance than as a interceptor or bomber?

[tinyint]

"On September 29, 1944, at 10:45 a.m., a test pilot was trying out a new Messerschmitt Jet, ME 262 Schwalbe, when his attention was suddenly caught by two luminous points situated on his right. He shot at full speed in that direction and found himself face to face with a cylindrical object, more than three hundred feet long with some openings along its side, and fitted with long antennae placed in front up to about halfway along its length. Having approached within about 1,500 feet of the craft the pilot was amazed to see that it was moving at a speed of more than 1,200 m.p.h." - from U.F.O.s and Extra-terrestrials in History (Vol. 4) by Yves Naud.

I believe that many of us can make some contribution to explaining the UFO mystery. This page is my modest contribution. I am sharing with those of you who are interested, an interview with Richard L. Cornwell, a veteran who was an Investigator with the 970th detachment of the U.S. Army Counter Intelligence Corps. Shortly after the end of WW II, this remarkable man actually was on site at the Harz mountain facility where Germany apparently manufactured at least some of their electromagnetic propulsion craft (also known as field propulsion craft) during the war.

In retrospect, Americans should have correlated the WW II and post-war sightings of flying spheres, saucers, and cylinders to the wondrous technology of National Socialist Germany. It is an understatement to say that our government has deliberately misled us on the UFO question.

My own interest in the UFO phenomenon was first sparked in February 1955 when I noticed a glowing yellow sphere hovering a few feet above a tree. This extremely fascinating object was only about twenty-five feet from where I was looking out of a window. After a few seconds it moved away horizontally at a speed of perhaps 30 mph. I had an immediate sense that this amazing machine was under intelligent control. This sighting occurred on a Sunday afternoon in Nashville, Tennessee. I would estimate the object to be between 5 to 6 feet in diameter. In retrospect, I might add that it had an uncanny resemblance to a WW II vintage "Foo Fighter."

It is likely that the German cylindrical (or cigar-shaped) craft had large photon reflectors mounted in an opening at the tail end of the ship. WW II German scientist Eugen Sänger once wrote, "Reflectors are used to direct the beams not only of searchlights and weapons rays but of various kinds of photon and pure fission rockets as well. Here they serve to reflect and collimate electromagnetic or corpuscular radiation. So doing they replace the conventional firing nozzle in directing the force which propels the rocket." Of course, there were problems associated with photon propulsion. According to the late NASA scientist, Paul R. Hill, the energy of a photon beam required to propel a UFO weighing 60,000 pounds in earth's atmosphere would be approximately 2,000 times greater than the jet energy of a Saturn class rocket with a thrust of six million pounds.

German scientists were well aware of the above constraints. They knew that gravity had to be overcome by some means. Cancellation of gravity was the real challenge. I believe that through experimentation they discovered that rings fitted with ports for emission of bursts of high energy electromagnetic waves could cancel gravity by relaxing the tension in the fabric of space-time. Photon propulsion became feasible in our atmosphere and strange UFO's ("Foo Fighters", flying saucers, wingless cylinders, etc.) raced across the skies of WW II confounding the eyes (and nerves) of those who saw them.

(Author's note: I will remind the reader that numerous eye witnesses have reported flashing lights along the rims of flying saucers. These lights (glowing air molecules) are actually caused by bursts of x-ray photons which distort gravity by relaxing the tension found in the fabric of space-time. See my article on gravity: Is Gravity Caused by Tension in the Fabric in Space-Time?)

In March of 1997, I was very pleased to conduct a series of five interviews with a (then) 76 year old US Army Counter Intelligence Corps veteran, Richard L. Cornwell, who was actually present at the German facility where photon propulsion craft were manufactured during WW II. I believe that the following excerpts from my interviews can help each of us to decide on what really took place.

RJL: What circumstances brought you to the German manufacturing site for the flying saucers?

CIC Veteran Cornwell: I was on an intelligence mission which I would rather not discuss. We visited the Harz mountain facility out of intense curiosity.

RJL: Did you see any flying saucers at the plant?

CIC Veteran Cornwell: Well, to begin with, I don't recall anyone using the term "Flying Saucers." Our people referred to them as craft. I only examined one craft while I was there.

RJL: What did it look like?

CIC Veteran Cornwell: It was a large cylindrical-shaped metallic craft resting on two long, wide skids. It was painted a gray-green color and did not have any markings or German insignia what-so-ever. I gathered that it was partially assembled and when the US Army was drawing near, the Germans hastily removed the propulsion system and other sensitive items.

The propulsion system had been located in the belly of the craft. You could see where it had been removed. The bottom of the craft was somewhat flattened and the top was rounded. The nose of the craft was rounded.

I went all through the thing and I noticed that one of the two front windows had been broken out. They appeared to be made out of very thick glass. Several of the gauges were missing from the control panel. There were round porthole windows on each side. The outside of the craft was smooth with riveted joints.

RJL: How big was the craft?

CIC Veteran Cornwell: Frankly, it is hard for me to remember. I do recall thinking that it was larger than any WW II submarine. I will estimate that it was several hundred feet long and maybe 30 feet high and perhaps 20 feet across the top.

RJL: Did it have a searchlight?

CIC Veteran Cornwell: I don't remember seeing one.

RJL: What about the craft's entrance doors?

CIC Veteran Cornwell: Strange as it may sound, we could not figure out exactly where the entrance doors were located, due to damage done to the sides when the Germans dismantled the parts they wanted to remove. We concluded that the doors must have been located on the sides.

RJL: Was the craft located in an underground facility?

CIC Veteran Cornwell: It was stored in a well-camouflaged aboveground building.

RJL: Were you briefed about the nature of this German craft?

CIC Veteran Cornwell: We were told that the Germans designed it to go to the moon and that they had flown all of the operational craft which had been kept at the plant to South America and Africa.

(Author's note: Germany also had an electromagnetic propulsion 300 meter long cylindrical ship which was alleged to be capable of traveling to the moon. A possible postwar siting of one of these giant ships is included in Strange Worlds by Frank Edwards. On June 30, 1947, the steamship Llandovery Castle was passing through the Straits of Madagascar, when those on board observed a 1000 feet long cigar shaped metallic craft descend from the sky and cruise along beside them for about one minute. Given the time frame of the above incident it would seem likely that this UFO was in fact a craft from a displaced Reich operating out of a secret base in Africa - or possibly Antarctica.

George Leonard, author of Somebody Else is on the Moon, mentions the puzzling mystery of runic symbols appearing on the moon's surface. He cites considerable evidence of activities on the surface of the moon.

Rumors have persisted for decades that German forces continued to wage a secret war after May 1945, using exotic technology - especially UFO based psychological warfare. In 1952, CIA director Walter B. Smith wrote, in a now declassified memorandum, to the director of the Psychological Strategy Board, "I am today transmitting to the National Security Council a proposal (TAB A) in which it is concluded that the problems connected with unidentified flying objects appear to have implications for psychological warfare as well as for intelligence and operations." He went on to write in section 3 of the same memo, "I suggest that we discuss at an early board meeting the possible offensive or defensive utilization of these phenomena for psychological warfare purposes.")

RJL: Were you instructed to keep this information secret?

CIC Veteran Cornwell: I have been warned at least three times.

RJL: Were you contacted after you returned to the states?

CIC Veteran Cornwell: Yes. Once by a government visitor to my home.

RJL: What type of ID did he show you?

CIC Veteran Cornwell: He showed me a Military Intelligence ID.

http://www.netowne.com/naziufos/boblee/index.htm


William Pawelec
Mr. William Pawelec was a U.S. Air Force computer operations and programming specialist with numerous credentials in security technologies and access control systems. He gave this interview with Dr. Greer prior to the 2001 National Press Club Disclosure event and asked that it not be released until after his death. We recently found out that Mr. William Pawelec passed away on May 22, 2007 and we received permission to release it in December 2010.

http://www.youtube.com/v/yytSNQ2ogD4

William Pawelec Interview - YouTube

[tinyint]

The Fringe Division investigates cases relating to fringe science, ranging from transhumanist experiments gone wrong to the ominous prospect of a technological singularity to the possible existence of a parallel universe. The Fringe Division's work often intersects with advanced biotechnology developed by a company called Massive Dynamic, founded by Walter's former partner, Dr. William Bell. The team is also watched silently by a group of bald, albino men that call themselves "Observers".

Season 1 introduces the Fringe Division as they investigate cases that form "the Pattern", many orchestrated by the bioterrorist organization, ZFT (Zerstörung durch Fortschritte der Technologie, or in English, Destruction through advances in technology). Olivia comes to learn she was a child test subject for Walter years ago for a nootropic drug, Cortexiphan, giving her weak psionic powers. Walter also struggles with adjusting to normal life in Peter's care after living several years in an mental institution, and hides a secret about Peter's past from him.


The parallel universe
<...>

The parallel universe appears more advanced than the prime one; in the keystone second season episode "Peter", which takes place primarily in 1985, the parallel universe is shown to have cell phones, and zeppelins appear as a common form of transportation.[4][6] In the show's present (2009 and onward), John F. Kennedy is alive as an ambassador to the United Nations, and other figures like John Lennon and Martin Luther King, Jr. are also alive.[5] The United States in the parallel universe only consists of 48 states; while there exists a North and South Texas, other single states appear to take the place of two separate states in the prime universe, such as both North and South Carolina being the single "Carolina" in the parallel universe. Furthermore, much of western California has been lost, suggesting that a large earthquake along the San Andreas Fault has fallen below sea level.[7] The singularities that plague the parallel universe can lead to destructive voids; to prevent these, the Fringe division there uses a fast-setting amber-like substance to prevent weakened areas from becoming destructive, but with no regard for innocents that may be trapped within it.[4] While the September 11 attacks still occurred in the parallel universe, only the White House and The Pentagon were attacked, and the World Trade Center remains standing.[6]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fringe_%28TV_series%29

Zeppelins, like Andromeda Geräte?

Obviously, a 3d rendering...

http://www.jimnicholsufo.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/andromeda-machine-37.jpg

[orage]

^^^

The alternate universe in Fringe certainly has a III. Reich/Socialist feel to it. The color hues are shifted towards grey/brown/steel and there's ID cards and people in uniforms everywhere. You already pointed out the Zeppelins, there're billboards advocating flights to the moon, the hint of free energy etc. The German-sounding name of the scientist Walter that experiments on humans, who is the Secretary of Defense on the other side.

A very interesting and entertaining series.

http://i42.tinypic.com/25s6jh0.jpg

http://blastr.com/pics/FringeMoonFlights011911.jpg

Glatterflug, the name of the Moon airline is German. Glatter Flug = safe flight

Technology (http://blastr.com/2011/01/83-differences-between-fr.php)
The alternate universe seems to be a couple of decades more advanced than our own, with major differences when one crosses over:

♦ The Challenger launched on its 11th mission on June 28, 1984, rather than the five missions up until that point on our side. (Our Challenger would only complete 10 missions by 1986, never completing the 10th, having been destroyed on January 28, 1986.) (205 - Dream Logic)
♦ Double-decker cars--toy versions, anyway--seem to be popular. (215 - Jacksonville)
♦ In 1986, cars were equipped with CD players as a standard option. (215 - Jacksonville)
♦ The alternative universe invented a comparatively modern cellular telephones by 1985. (216 - Peter)
♦ Airships are commonplace over NYC by 1985 and through 2010, and the Empire State Building continued the use of observation deck as docking platform, as originally intended. (216 - Peter)
♦ The Macintosh Plus (or similar model) developed by 1985, a year earlier than its release on our side. (216 - Peter)
♦ Bluetooth-style phones are commonplace on the other side, and they have a variety of functions. (222 - Over There, Part 1)
♦ The alternative universe has advanced considerably when it comes to technology, with advanced handheld, touchscreen computers on a pane of glass. (222 - Over There, Part 1)
♦ Computers with advanced, touchscreen monitors are built right into desks. (222 - Over There, Part 1)
♦ Fringe units carry hand-held sensors to detect interdimensional tears. (222 - Over There, Part 1)
♦ The Show-Me is a government-issued card, used for a variety of purposes, including identification and bus fares. Numerous signs around New York City remind citizens not to forget their cards. (222 - Over There, Part 1)
♦ White Pages are touchscreen computer terminals in NYC. (222 - Over There, Part 1)
♦ Nanotechnology exists to help treat serious injuries, such as severe burns and gunshot wounds. (223- Over There, Part 2)
♦ Helicopters operate on autopilot. (223- Over There, Part 2)
♦ An amber substance is used to contain fringe events, trapping people inside. (223- Over There, Part 2)
♦ Flights to the moon occur on a daily basis. (301- Olivia)
♦ Smallpox not eradicated. (303- The Plateau)
♦ Air quality in the alternate universe is very bad at times, requiring people to put on masks. (303- The Plateau)
♦ Pens are largely out of use due to the advances in technology. (303- The Plateau)
♦ There was a Vortex in 1990 in the East rRver that caused a major quarantine, and a memory on par with Sept. 11. (308- Enterada)
♦ Operating tables are clear plastic and seem to be molded to the individual. (308- Enterada)

...

♦ Fringe Division is not part of the FBI, but works under the Department of Defense. Broyles, not a member of the FBI, holds the rank of Colonel. (222 - Over There, Part 1)
♦ Soldiers working for Fringe Division wear a dark gray/dark green ACU uniforms, and other slightly different camouflage patterns are noted. (222 - Over There, Part 1)
♦ The Statue of Liberty is home to the Department of Defense and is bronze-colored, not weathered copper. (222 - Over There, Part 1 and numerous followup episodes.)

...

♦ In the alternative universe, Walter Bishop (Walternate) is the secretary of defense, where our Walter Bishop was committed to an insane asylum. (222 - Over There, Part 1)
♦ Mail is delivered by the U.S. Mail Service, not USPS, and while the blue mailbox is used, there is a different logo on it. (222 - Over There, Part 1 and spotted several times afterward)

http://i39.tinypic.com/2dja0qg.jpg

[tinyint]

^^^

The alternate universe in Fringe certainly has a III. Reich/Socialist feel to it. The color hues are shifted towards grey/brown/steel and there's ID cards and people in uniforms everywhere. You already pointed out the Zeppelins, there're billboards advocating flights to the moon, the hint of free energy etc. The German-sounding name of the scientist Walter that experiments on humans, who is the Secretary of Defense on the other side.

A very interesting and entertaining series.

http://i42.tinypic.com/25s6jh0.jpg

http://blastr.com/pics/FringeMoonFlights011911.jpg

Glatterflug, the name of the Moon airline is German. Glatter Flug = safe flight



http://i39.tinypic.com/2dja0qg.jpg

Nice catch of the Moonline.

I was thinking if Bishop would be a hint to some Church organization?

I consider the series some truth but already mixed with propaganda. We must be the good guys, yeah.
I had to skip the episode on the holy myth.

Anyway, lets summarize some common shared pattern/plots in "sci-fi", which I think is a subliminal "education".

-there seems to exist a gateway/portal technology
-the seems to exist remains of ancient technology on earth, which is somehow linked to a genetic configuration in order to active/use the technology
-time travel
-free energy
-and a "bad" guys faction always out to destroy 'us'(really?) and heroic US special forces in a bond manner always successfully save earth from the bad guys

[firstlook]

I resurrect this thread from oblivion, since it occured to me that the nazi flag may hide a secret.

http://matchstic.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/nazi-flag.jpg

In his recent book "Philosopher's Stone: Alchemy and the Secret Research for Exotic Matter", Joseph Farrell speculates at length about the "alchemical" Reich.

Now, looking at the flag, one sees a vortex in the middle (the swastika), then the 3 colors -> black, white and red, which are the exact color sequence observed when obtaining the philosopher's stone.

The official story behind the Nazi Flag does not mention alchemy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika#As_the_symbol_of_Nazism

http://qtouch.org/images/grid.jpg

[orage]

http://www.webalice.it/romanoarchives/page6/files/page6_12.jpg

Run Time: 00:52:49 Audio/Visual: Sound/C
Quality: # # # # #

Antarctica (1941)
Amateur silent documentary

Officially the Adm. Byrd's mission was a geographical, biological and metereological one.
In facts the U.S. Intelligence was really concerned about the Nazi research of the secret Antarctic Doors, according to the "Hollow Earth" theory. There were also rumours about a Nazi "Secret Disk-Shaped Planes Factory and Military Air Base" in the area.
The possibility of the passage of unknown weapons and Axis' troops through the Earth, able to hit the USA by surprise from the underground, was taken in serious consideration by the American Intelligence at the end of the 1930ies. To control the Germans in their activities in "Neu-Schwabenland" was considered a priority in the early times of WW2, at least before Pearl Harbor's attack and the US involvement in the conflict.
In this recently declassified original silent footage there's much more that meets the eye than the trip to Antarctic and the daily life of the crew. There are really revealing and unexpected shots here and there...


ANTARCTICA! The 1939-41 Admiral Byrd&#39;s 3rd Antarctic Mission (1 of 6) - YouTube

The official version of this mission's history is available here:

http://www.south-pole.com/p0000109.htm

As all this was going on, Byrd was in Boston with his associates making plans for a third expedition to the Antarctic. Like the first two expeditions, this one was to be privately funded. Late in 1938 Byrd became aware of the governments position and possible action when an official of the State Department approached him for a consultation on the subject. This meeting and subsequent planning was brought to the attention of President Roosevelt. On January 7, 1939, a memorandum was sent by the President to the Acting Secretary of State, Sumner Welles, approving the plans developed by the Departments of State, War and Navy. The President suggested the Department of Interior should be involved in the planning along with continued consultation with Admiral Byrd and Lincoln Ellsworth regarding the estimated costs of such an expedition. Additionally, the President wanted the group to consider the feasibility of maintaining a party each season "at Little America and at the region South of the Cape of Good Hope".

Two important developments resulted from the President's January 7 memorandum. First, Admiral Byrd decided to cancel plans for his private expedition and join ranks with the government. With his extensive knowledge of the area, from this point forward he was accepted as the leader and was to be actively involved with the planning and organization of the expedition. Secondly, an interdepartmental committee was formed, which eventually became the Executive Committee of the United States Antarctic Service.

[hagbard_celine]

I was just about to post the Adrian Salbuchi broadcast. Very interesting.
Have you seen Salbuchi has a new ebook out.:):cool: You have to email him for it. Can't remember how m uch he charges, but it's not expensive.

[hagbard_celine]

The latest Call of duty game, Black Ops, is about to release an add on where the user gets to have gunfights at a nazi base in the antarctic.

Just sayin' :D
I've always seen Call of Duty and similar games as covert military recruitment scams, but this is interesating. Thanks.:) In thisa case the game is even more realistic than the average gamer thinks! These battles actually did happen. I've met a guy who told me took part in them.

As for the Falklands, it was all about the oil fields. In fact I made a prediction that came true. I said that Argentina would beging harrassing the Islands again. This was because a new oil field was discovered there.

[orage]

Vril Society- An Essay (http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.causa-nostra.com%2FRueckblick%2FDie-Vril-Gesellschaft--Idee-und-Hintergruende--r1102a01.htm), from those that were part of the events.

-I helped the Google translation a bit for clarity-

The "Vril Society" - in all its facets - had no political aims in the true sense. The goals were the resurrection of the Holy Roman Realm of the German nation (according to the presentation of the Bucintoro Order, ie without influence of the church) and the overcoming of modernity and the revival of the ancient world, a new Atlantis Ideal according to Plato (dating back to ideas of gnostic secret societies of the Antiquity). Magical ideas played an important role. The basis of the "Vril-Gesellschaft" in all this were ideas related to early Christianity (Jovian, Marcion, etc.).

The now common claim that "Vril Society" was a Nazi affiliated group is as false as it would be wrong to call them opponents of the regime. The "Vril-circle" view on the Nazis was that any current policy was only seen as temporary. With regard to alliances with leaders of that period, only those to Wilhelm Canaris and the Abwehr intelligence has been substantiated.

During the interim war period, the "Vril Society" focused on making money through their company (eg in cooperation with Opel), in order to realize their -seemingly too fantastic to be able to be realized- dreams.

With the outbreak of the War in 1939 this aim changed. Through discussions with Canaris it became apparent that Germany was in a difficult position to win World War II. Their goal changed direction accordingly. The "Vril society" wanted to develop powerful weapons.

The companies technical workshops had to provide sub-components for official military projects, and apparently other cooperations with the armaments industry existed. Certainly there was a particularly close cooperation with Arado, due to the friendship with Kurt Tank, but also with Focke-Wulf.

Meanwhile, the Vril Society continued its work unconventional military objects it used to make. Financial Aviation Engineering Support for this came from the budgets of the defense, that of Canaris' Abwehr. Following the experimental system RFZ 2 - the experimental unit Vril 9 and the much larger Vril 7 were developed and produced.

At the same time other devices were further developed, due to a sale of the blueprints of Vril 4 and Vril 5 to the technical division of the SS. These devises became known as "Haunebu" (or Hauneburg). Further, there were experiments with different types of flying discs in other places. To the not yet deciphered things include the matter to Vril 8 "Odin" and the Aldebaran Project (the "Vril Project"). What was meant by this is not entirely clear. One hypothesis assumes, "Aldebaran" is a code name for a very different place (possibly Venezuela), but the majority of the remaining documents say that in fact the solar system Aldebaran was meant literally.

More at the link (http://www.causa-nostra.com/Rueckblick/Die-Vril-Gesellschaft--Idee-und-Hintergruende--r1102a01.htm).

[soleil]

Make of this what you will:

German UFO Base in Brasil

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

[manxboz]

Make of this what you will:

German UFO Base in Brasil

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJD1gSEYqKc

http://static.ak.fbcdn.net/rsrc.php/yi/r/q9U99v3_saj.ico

[tinyint]

Thanks for posting soleil.

I try to remember who he was who is speaking.

I remember it saw a longer video of this presentation, in multiple parts. :confused:

Edit: One comment I find funny.... subconscious truth attack :D

... i would say..But he had told people in other sermons that they were brought from the future by Germans ..Now he says Germans just happen to figure it out by testing Time travel..i can tell you a few other stories he has told and he cannot be taken credible..Pictures may be real but he got them

[manxboz]

Thanks for posting soleil.

I try to remember who he was who is speaking.

I remember it saw a longer video of this presentation, in multiple parts. :confused:

Edit: One comment I find funny.... subconscious truth attack :D

I have a map marking the supposed sites in Latin America, however it wouldn't work :(

[tinyint]

I have a map marking the supposed sites in Latin America, however it wouldn't work :(

What wouldn't work? :confused:

Do you know who the guy in the vid is?

[manxboz]

What wouldn't work? :confused:

Do you know who the guy in the vid is?

My upload of the Map marking Nazi bases in Latin America.

[tinyint]

If you're convinced that 3D is the work of the devil then you may not be far wrong after two 3D movies shot by the Third Reich have been unearthed.

Australian director Philippe Mora was researching Nazi propaganda films for an upcoming documentary when he found the two 30-minute movies known as "raum films" — or space films. But until now no one knew that these films were shot in 3D.

"The films are shot on 35mm — apparently with a prism in front of two lenses," Mora told Variety.

The movie "So Real You Can Touch It" is a musical set at a carnival and features scenes of barbecuing meat, while the second called "Six Girls Roll into Weekend" shows "UFA studio starlets living it up".

"The quality of the films is fantastic. The Nazis were obsessed with recording everything and every single image was controlled — it was all part of how they gained control of the country and its people," Mora said.

Both films were shot in 1936 and predate Hollywood's 3D "golden age" by 20 years.

We can't wait to see the Hitler reaction video for this one!

http://www.cnet.com.au/australian-director-unearths-hitler-s-3d-films-339309268.htm

.

[tinyint]

Secrets of the 3rd Reich

Pt1
YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

Pt2
YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

Pt3
YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

Pt4
YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

[orage]

^^^ Sounds like the english version of Jan v. Helsing's books, I seem to recognize many phases. Does it pick up after part 1?

Thanks, nonetheless.

[tinyint]

^^^ Sounds like the english version of Jan v. Helsing's books, I seem to recognize many phases. Does it pick up after part 1?

Thanks, nonetheless.

Its was the closest summary in english and its old material(eventually produced the same time as the Atlantis series), but with some interesting statements and conclusions by J. Hurtak.
I'd say yes, but you should be able to watch the Schauberger & Andreas Epp interview I uploaded yesterday.
Zeitzeugen... :)

[orage]

Its was the closest summary in english and its old material(eventually produced the same time as the Atlantis series), but with some interesting statements and conclusions by J. Hurtak.
I'd say yes, but you should be able to watch the Schauberger & Andreas Epp interview I uploaded yesterday.
Zeitzeugen... :)

Thanks, illuminating & fascinating.

Here's a long version of the same interviews.

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

[octopusrex]

Thanks, illuminating & fascinating.

Here's a long version of the same interviews.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtpfoxRcUjg

Super spass Focker fleugzeug.. Nur die deutschen konnen die Focker!:eek:

[orage]

Its was the closest summary in english and its old material(eventually produced the same time as the Atlantis series), but with some interesting statements and conclusions by J. Hurtak.
I'd say yes, but you should be able to watch the Schauberger & Andreas Epp interview I uploaded yesterday.
Zeitzeugen... :)

Yeah, the Secrets series was decent in the end, they had some of Epp's drawings in there. Certainly at a higher level as comparable History channel productions, at least they have the people involved right. I believe it was made by the same production company as the contemporary Atlantis series.

Hmm, I still haven't made up my mind, but entertain the possibility that Jenseits/Aldearan contact was made and that the channelings were paired with some of the brightest physicists and engineers of the time. Possible with success beyond blueprints and proof-of-concept models.

Schauberger in my mind was just divinely inspired, drawing from the soup of knowledge that is around us, just waiting to be re-discovered. One only has to really focus and quiet the mind.

[orage]

Super spass Focker fleugzeug.. Nur die deutschen konnen die Focker!:eek:

Hehe. Nothing to do with that dismal hollywood series. FW 190 was one of the finest piston-driven aircraft ever build, but don't take my word for it...

See here (http://www.aviation-history.com/focke-wulf/fw190.html)

And of course the Vril people were quite friendly with designer Kurt Tank.

[tinyint]

The Aldebaran Mystery - Nazi UFO Secrets

The Aldebaran Mystery - Nazi UFO Secrets - YouTube

During Adolf Hitler's rise to power, did a daring group of Nazi scholars and technicians learn the secrets of anti-gravity and space travel from extraterrestrials? If true, these conclusions may shock and amaze you. Get the facts about UFO Secrets of World War II - The 3rd Reich and beyond, in a way that will change the way we stare up at the stars for years to come.

[hank_scorpio]

Official LIFE Photograph
http://mylesohowe.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/image041.jpg
http://mylesohowe.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/cigarcraftgermany.jpg

Zoom
http://mylesohowe.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/cigarcraftgermany2.jpg

Invert
http://mylesohowe.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/cigarcraftgermany3.jpg

http://www.zamandayolculuk.com/Cetinbal/VZ/vril01_02a.gif

Not sure if anyone cought the Andromeda Gerat in the official LIFE Photograph? I don't think it is a bad image. The quality of the LIFE colour photographs of nazi germany are great.

[orage]

Official LIFE Photograph
http://mylesohowe.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/image041.jpg
http://mylesohowe.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/cigarcraftgermany.jpg

Zoom
http://mylesohowe.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/cigarcraftgermany2.jpg

Invert
http://mylesohowe.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/cigarcraftgermany3.jpg

http://www.zamandayolculuk.com/Cetinbal/VZ/vril01_02a.gif

Not sure if anyone cought the Andromeda Gerat in the official LIFE Photograph? I don't think it is a bad image. The quality of the LIFE colour photographs of nazi germany are great.

Hmm, I've looked at many original color film reel from WWII. Dirt and hairs are quite common. The speck on the Time image looks like such, dirt. At best, inconclusive.

[orage]

http://www.causa-nostra.com/navi/Einblick.htm

Based on research, private letters and logic, CN's new postings attempt to connect the dots. What happened with Vril, what was accomplished in these troubled times?

In German, I trust you know how to use Google translator.

Link is for informational purpose, I'm not affiliated nor do I endorse any of the views presented at the site, yada yada - FRG disclaimer.

[orage]

Exiting....though if Nazi Germany actually DID recover some kind of technological wonders, why the heck did they not use that to win the war? Was the whole thing just a cover up in order to peacefully extract some sort of alien technology or discover the entrance to the "inner earth"? You dont need to start a war to get away with secret expeditions...

See this as a further insight (http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.causa-nostra.com%2FEinblick%2FVon-den-Nazis-verpfuscht--e1104a06.htm) Bungled by the Nazis?

[tinyint]

How do we know Adamski didn't just make a model based on Nazi drawings and hoax his entire story like most seem to have done (if not all)

http://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=210612

[horseflesh]

Aha I see you already posted 'Secrets Of The Third Reich' Good stuff... and very interesting... The same production company made a documentary about Atlantis that you might find interesting -

THE LEGEND OF ATLANTIS - YouTube