Icke may be getting bad info. Please read.

[cleft_asunder]

Before I get into this, I want to say that I highly respect Icke. The man is genuine in his effort to find the truth, to say the least, and what he has discovered about the world is blatantly true, even to the point of the Reptilians. But it is information in regards to the highest level of the game that concerns me.

I've been thinking a great deal about the Matrix, how supposedly it has been hijacked by fear, and which sustains itself through fear; the 3d timeloop we currently reside in being the power generator. Okay, it makes sense, and maybe it's true, but maybe it's not. Ever since I read 'The disappearance of the Universe' and found out that the book which it highlights as a profound work is in fact a mind-control test of some sort. The book is called 'A Course in Miracles' and was written down by Helen Schucman, who started to hear a voice in her head which told her what to write. That voice said it was Jesus, and it took her 7 years to write down the material. The Course and the other book are like a Gnostics dream come true, and they go into exactly the same things that Icke was revealed by The One. Unfortunately, if you do research on Helen Schucman, you will find that MK-ULTRA comes into the scene, which should activate your warning alarm.

In David's second vidcast, an individual asked him "who controls the controllers, and who controls them?" And David answered, "well, I don't know the answer to that." Excuse me? You sounded pretty confident when you wrote Time Loop and Infinite Love, where the question was answered by "the voice" (AKA The One). What happened? Not so confident anymore David? I can only rationally conclude that David is questioning the validity of the information supplied to him under Ayahuasca by "The One." When The One talks to you and tells you what's going on, it's not something you would dismiss or forget! You really have to start to wonder weather David has been manipulated to reach certain damaging conclusions under the effects of Ayahuasca --damaging in the sense that it makes us passive rather than active. Remember, it was Icke's FIRST experience with psychoactive chemicals, and he started with the most hardcore one.

Displeased with the whole situation and not knowing how to find any anwers, I ran into a book titled 'You Are God. Get Over It!' The author doesn't beat around the bush does he? On the Amazon link below, he gives us a few paragraphs, and the third one sheds some light on the mystery.

"The key to conscious creatorship is the allowance of change; the birthing of the unknown into the known. The basis of allowance is acceptance. To change your reality you must first accept it. As long as you reject what you do not like about your reality you are in denial of your creatorship, leaving you feeling stuck. To accept that you are choosing your reality, release attachment to any preconception of how life should be and instead love what is. This comes through the taking of complete responsibility for every element of your reality. This is to love your choice. It is to love yourself. You are the choice of yourself."

What an absolutely interesting change in perspective compared to what was revealed to icke, and what is written in the book's A Course in Miracles and The disappearance of the Universe. On one hand we are taught to renounce and hate our illusory reality, just like the Gnostics, and to sit on our asses and wait for The One to make it all better again, and on the other hand we are taught to accept our reality and to think positive, and to shape it from the present.

An additional detail about David Icke these days reveals that he is (perhaps) abandoning the ideas in Infinite Love regarding 2012. In Infinite Love he stated that "something else is going on" in regards to 2012. It's not just another meaningless astrological change to get us into a new and temporary golden age, as all the 2012 "experts" claim, but rather The One is hacking into the system and the whole Multiverse is going to be redesigned from a creation of frear to a creation of love. Okay, but he never even goes into this anymore, like he never wrote it.

[cleft_asunder]

Amazon.com: You Are God. Get Over It! (9780976506249): Story Waters: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51rzskJ-tDL.@@AMEPARAM@@51rzskJ-tDL

You are amazing. You are the creation of yourself. You are that which creates. You are the choice to experience existence – beingness. The only limit to what you can be is your self-belief and your imagination. To be born into this reality is to enter a wonderful, shared illusion that grants you complete free-will in the creation of your own personal reality; this is your creatorship. Within the illusion we believe that we are looking at a separate, objective world where we experience self and other; beneath this apparent separation we are unified; we are one.

Reality is a mirror of your being. You are creation exploring itself in a space-time mirror. Through what you choose to believe you create your reality. You change your reality by changing your beliefs about both it and yourself. The eyes with which you look actually shape what you see (this is now shown in quantum physics). Perception is not passive; it is an act of creation. Your choice of perception forms not only how you experience yourself, but your entire reality. Awakening to your creatorship leads your experience of reality to become more fluid and direct. This is to enter conscious creatorship where what you desire is quickly manifest.

The key to conscious creatorship is the allowance of change; the birthing of the unknown into the known. The basis of allowance is acceptance. To change your reality you must first accept it. As long as you reject what you do not like about your reality you are in denial of your creatorship, leaving you feeling stuck. To accept that you are choosing your reality, release attachment to any preconception of how life should be and instead love what is. This comes through the taking of complete responsibility for every element of your reality. This is to love your choice. It is to love yourself. You are the choice of yourself.

Release your fear. Fear is fear of the unknown, fear of being limitless. Fear creates limitation. There is a natural, beautiful unfolding to life that can only arise when you let go of the control that arises through fear. To face your fear is to allow yourself to be vulnerable and put down the shields you have used to protect yourself. All shields are a representation of a belief in danger and therefore lead you to the very danger you want them to protect you from. Whilst you are barricaded behind shields (fear) you will never truly feel safe. All that blocks you in life is the manifestation of your fear. The discovery of freedom is the realization that the only force pushing against you is you. You hold the key to any cage you may be in. To cease to judge and control your own being is to release struggle and enter joyful, effortless creation.

You are awakening to your creatorship and the nature of the illusion. This is a natural process and requires no more than fearlessly being yourself. This means opening and following your heart. This is your freedom: believe whatever your heart feels to believe. This is to live in the Now. It is to awaken to the equality of all beingness and release judgment of both yourself and the world. Ever changing truth is the reflection of the ever unfolding birth of beingness that is life. In this state there is no such thing as ‘The Truth’. There is no need of an answer for there is no problem. Just be. There are no limits to what you can be; you are infinite. The joy of this life arises through completely allowing your own being.

Within your heart is a dream. The meaning of life is to live that dream. You can only live that dream if you believe you can. Believe in your dream. You are free to be whatever it is you wish to be. You are an embodiment of all creation. The answer to every question you can conceive is within you, for you are both the creator and perceiver of all you experience. Allow your beingness to blossom without limitation or control and you will experience the limitless love and freedom that you are.

[mk72]

I usually read his books and then look for similar topics to get a broader view on the topic so that I can make up my own idea of what it means. I try to remember that he is learning with us and that all his experiences, knowledge and truth, is his interpretation. We journey with him into this unkown. I started researching the 2012 thing last year, and although I don't know about this statement from him about 2012, I started realising that it can be an Illuminati created concept ( I haven't dismissed it completely) and I realised that truth be told we don't even know for sure what year we are in now (some say we are out with more that 200 years - another interpretation). We know for sure that there is a change in Ages. We know for sure it is a evolutionary stage and we know for sure the NWO is at it's final fase. To me that is enough facts - the rest nobody can say for sure.

[tinmenace]

Have you read Infinite Love Is The Only Truth, Everything Else Is Illusion? (http://www.davidickebooks.co.uk/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=2)

It's all about what we create on the inside is what we manifest on the outside. WE ARE THE CONTROLLERS BECAUSE WE ARE CREATING OUR OWN REALITY.

Listen to what David says at the very end of this clip (http://www.davidicke.com/dvd). I think David has full understanding of what's going on.

[john white]

Watcha Cleft. Now this is what I call a good topic!

Let’s start at the top:

I've been thinking a great deal about the Matrix, how supposedly it has been hijacked by fear, and which sustains itself through fear; the 3d timeloop we currently reside in being the power generator. Okay, it makes sense, and maybe it's true, but maybe it's not. Ever since I read 'The disappearance of the Universe' and found out that the book which it highlights as a profound work is in fact a mind-control test of some sort. The book is called 'A Course in Miracles' and was written down by Helen Schucman, who started to hear a voice in her head which told her what to write. That voice said it was Jesus, and it took her 7 years to write down the material. The Course and the other book are like a Gnostics dream come true, and they go into exactly the same things that Icke was revealed by The One. Unfortunately, if you do research on Helen Schucman, you will find that MK-ULTRA comes into the scene, which should activate your warning alarm.


OK, well we've got three issues here: one is the "Gnosticness" of Icke's beliefs as per Timeloop/infinite Love, two is ACIM and whether that info is part of MKUltra, three is the inferred link between one and two

(I’m just going to pick the first paragraph as the rest of your post seems to me to be essentially expanding on what’s contained within)

Let’s start with one:

Is the cosmology of timeloop Gnostic?

Yep 100%, it is Gnosticism derived through a shamanic process of gnosis: lit "direct knowing". It’s as old as the hills, and certainly much older than the Gnostic sects associated with early Christianity. It also encompasses medieval Catharism as an extreme version... Ickes version has the matrix dominated by self aware fear, the Cathar version has the matrix created BY self-aware fear: The "demiurge", the "false God". Cathars used to mourn at the birth of a child and rejoice at funerals, firstly because of a soul being trapped into this world, secondly at their release. It is, in fact, the Cathar reluctance to add to the population that was a key factor in their defeat by genocide at the hands of Catholicism in the Albagensian crusade: literally, the Cathars could not match the prodigiously breeding Catholics numbers!

The second is ACIM: this is definitely reckoned to be channelled material. I've done some ACIM myself, its good solid spirituality though far too cerebral for my tastes: btw you miss out the strong ACIM Christian Science links. ACIM is especially good for observing the ego. Now as for the MKUltra link, could be, could not be, but I do think you should be a little cautious. Any moron can start spreading rumours around about Helen Schucman being part of MKULTRA: that doesn’t make it true. What you have are alleged links between ACIM and MKULTRA: it is of course necessary to show why the CIA would wish to MK people into following a solid set of spiritual principles. But I'm not against the idea that they could of done: I just feel its required to do a lot more than be "concerned" about something: we should aim to demonstrate a high probability that concern is justified. Its impossible to find any spiritual values that aren’t considered to be an evil trick by somebody else. Try it some time, very interesting exercise

Now then, the link between ACIM and Icke is there if we wish to see it as there, but the link between Icke and Gnosticism is far stronger... or to put it another way, vast swathes of spirituality across the planet can be considered MKULTRA because they share common common sense values with ACIM! However, is this really so? Or is it more likely that there is core spirituality within a vast number of spiritual paths: perhaps even ALL spiritual paths? I consider the external apparent differences to be mostly irrelevant when it comes to real spirituality, but then I consider the purpose of all spiritual paths is ultimately to lead to gnosis, when all the maps and guides become effectively irrelevant, at least as far as the person receiving gnosis is concerned: who needs a book to tell one the way when one communes directly with source?

But of course Ickes own spirituality is hardly a simple matter to define, is it? Its a common and sensible convention to consider that Ickes spirituality is defined by the latest expression of the same: but look where he started: communicating with non-physical entities via proxies in "Truth Vibrations": interesting in itself of course because the info in "Truth Vibrations" is identical to the info brought forward by Shelley Yates (Fire the Grid), (as I pointed out last week regrettably generating little interest). Yet the Truth Vibration info is quite different in many ways to the Timeloop/Infinite Love info, whilst equally being very much the same (Oneness/the balance of all/being the ultimate truth)

So when we try to get out minds around this, we see apparent massive contradiction. That's duality for ya, I’m tempted to say, but really it’s the nature of finite mind exploring infinite consciousness. Now we might say "one of these is disinfo/misinfo, because at the mind level we tend to believe one must be right and another must be wrong. But I personally hold that both are "right", because they are both points of perception: shift the point of perception and the apparent perspective changes: but its all perspectives on the ONE from within the ONE. Heck, if humanity as a whole could understand that, Religious/Spiritual conflict would disappear from this world: it simply wouldn’t be worth the effort and we could all get on with being God conscious in whatever way suited us. Not a popular view, and I doubt it will make a tremendous difference on the conversation likely (if not inevitably) to follow on this thread simply because I hold it

"I contradict myself? Very well, I contradict myself. I am large. I contain multitudes"

Lovely words of wisdom there always well worth the considering IMHO

Well there are some general thoughts. I'll leave it there for now, and I will follow this thread with interest

BTW: Any scripture, if considered genuine, must in fact be channelling. That’s why Churchianity /Control Religions have always been down on channelling unless it’s their priests munching the Magic Mushrooms: can’t have someone (and especially some WOMAN) directly contradicting temporal authority with a direct line, can we? Of course that’s why the Q has always been: "WHAT are you channelling"?

Followed by "Should one trust this? If so, how should one trust this? And why?"

Which in a Timeloop all of its own dumps us back with Self-Responsibility

[cleft_asunder]

You're always so general! Either Icke is right about the Time Loop, or he's not. I don't believe higher truth is subjective. For example, let's take the below quote:

"You are amazing. You are the creation of yourself. You are that which creates. You are the choice to experience existence – beingness. The only limit to what you can be is your self-belief and your imagination. To be born into this reality is to enter a wonderful, shared illusion that grants you complete free-will in the creation of your own personal reality; this is your creatorship. Within the illusion we believe that we are looking at a separate, objective world where we experience self and other; beneath this apparent separation we are unified; we are one."

This quote is probably a higher truth, but it's not the truth for us here on earth where we are born into pre-diseased bodies with genetic disfunction. That's where the subjectivity comes in. But personal subjectivity does not effect higher truth. Here we are a slave to our A.I. bio computers that we call our bodies. Therefore, it would be inaccurate to say that "[we are] that which creates," because we are suppressed of that information, and most people don't know that we are that which creates, therefore how can they create?

But let's simplify. Let's look at life here on earth, because through the microcosm I believe you can understand the macrocosm. We are born into a totally evil world controlled by the Illuminati. At the higher levels it seems we have demons and Reptilians. Now take a look at that quote above again, and apply it to the world we live in. Something's wrong, isn't there? Total suppression of truth is going on. Generally we definitely do not have any free will. We don't even know that we aren't our bodies, and that the universe is an illusion, much less that we are God experiencing itself subjectively. On top of that, nature is a total blood-bath, or more accurately lifeforms are constantly at war! That is shocking. Something seems very wrong here, therefore I can't help but conclude again that The One's message that was communicated to Icke was correct.

My point is still in regards to the original point, that either this Matrix thing is real, or it's not. This we CAN talk about, and to say it's subjective is bollocks. This is NOT subjective just like UFO's aren't subjective--either they exist or they don't, and it's clearly, through evidence, the latter. And my questions are still, 'what is really going on here on earth and the multiverse?' Is the Gnostic idea that the world was created by a demiurge correct? And if so, is it breaking down as "The One" told Icke? And why is Icke hesitent to talk about that which he so freely dedicated 2 whole books to?

[cleft_asunder]

I usually read his books and then look for similar topics to get a broader view on the topic so that I can make up my own idea of what it means. I try to remember that he is learning with us and that all his experiences, knowledge and truth, is his interpretation. We journey with him into this unkown. I started researching the 2012 thing last year, and although I don't know about this statement from him about 2012, I started realising that it can be an Illuminati created concept ( I haven't dismissed it completely) and I realised that truth be told we don't even know for sure what year we are in now (some say we are out with more that 200 years - another interpretation). We know for sure that there is a change in Ages. We know for sure it is a evolutionary stage and we know for sure the NWO is at it's final fase. To me that is enough facts - the rest nobody can say for sure.

It's true that Icke too is learning, and a lot of the material since his early books is outdated. But when --supposedly-- The One talks to you and tells you shit while you're doing the Aya, It's going to make damned sure that you KNOW it's The One talking to you, so that later on you have no doubts. And if that was the case, why would Icke suddenly dismiss the "profound" experience he had in the Amazon? The only rational conclusion is that he's having doubts about the source of the message.

[cleft_asunder]

The author of the Book 'You are God, Get over it!" Part 1 of 4:

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

[james777]

Great post cleft!! Really, you've hit the nail on the head here. 'Icke", the 'Aya' and the 'One' have always been very suspicious aspects to me. I mean the 'One' could be anybody or anything and since 'Aya' is involved I assume it's some type of evil force and/or MK Ultra. The reason I think this is because we all have access to the 'true one, God', without having to take 'aya'. This is proof to me that things are very fishy here.

Icke himself is confused on things and won't be long now before the 'illuminati' cut his puppet strings and he falls to his doom and everyone who has put so much stock into Icke, his works and others will be left in total dis-array and confusion. I try to warn them, but they refuse to listen to me.

[cleft_asunder]

Okay, here it is. I couldn't have made it clearer. If David Icke is being fed wrong information intentionally, then this is the information they seek to suppress:

"Many wish to ascend from this physical plane in order to exist as pure spirit – escaping here to get there. There is no separate spiritual plane. It is here and now, within us. This challenges the way in which we have put spirituality, the spiritual plane, on a pedestal – as being different from both what and where we are. We are the spiritual, expressed in the physical. We are the spiritual plane expressed as the physical plane. There is no difference except a choice, an angle, of perception; that is the illusion.
Our biological perceptive system creates the illusion of physical matter and time. This world is the spiritual plane expressed through our space-time perception. Physicality does not create our problems; it is the powerful lens through which we are exploring ourselves. It is time to stop blaming our physicality, our choice of expression, as the cause of our suffering. Blaming is a denial of self-responsibility – a denial of our creatorship. It is blaming a mirror for what it reflects. Physicality only ever makes manifest what is already spiritually present."

"The love, the peace, that has been projected onto existence in the spiritual plane, is available for you here and now. What you spiritually seek is not beyond this life. Ascension will not liberate you. That liberation is here and now, if you so choose it. This is seeing through the illusion of the veil. It is to see that there is no veil; there has never been any separation; the separation is the illusion. The divide of life and death does not separate you from anything. Death will not solve anything. Death will not free you. If you need death to free you then you are trapped, trapped in life. Life and death are not different. The physical plane and spiritual plane are not different. Death is an illusion. Life is an illusion. The beingness that you are both encompasses and creates this illusion."

"You cannot escape the beingness that you are. There is no escape. This realization taps into the deepest fear, "I am eternally trapped in suffering”, but it is also the greatest gift, for within it is the realization that there is nothing you need to escape from. Contained in what you fear is the realization that there is nothing to fear. There is nothing you desire that can not be experienced here. You do not need to shed your body; it separates you from nothing. Being alive in physicality separates you from nothing. All life is here: as above so below."

"Physical reality is not a cage. There is no separation to ascend across; release this duality; there is no boundary. The idea of ascension is the manifestation of separation from living your life fully in the here and now. Physicality is not separate from your spiritual being; physicality is the expression of your spiritual being. There is no separation in All That You Are. As long as the idea of ascension contains the energy of escape then it will be manifest as the experience of confinement (feeling trapped); escape is the creator, not liberator, of all cages. See the paradox. Release the journey of ascension to ascend. In ascension you do not go anywhere. To ascend is to open your eyes and see that you are ascended."

"We are spirit exploring itself within physical matter. Physical matter is nothing but an altered perception of our spiritual selves. The choice is yours as to whether you want to be separate from your complete spiritual self through the idea of a lack to be ascended, or whether you wish to release that, and unite your physical self with your spiritual self and unite the planes of existence within you. This is the realization that death is no escape; ascension is no escape; there is nothing to escape from. All ideas of escape are trying to escape what you are seeking. All that you have ever sought to escape has been your own reflection. The more you seek to not be here, the more here you are. Embrace the paradox. Here is spiritual. Here is now. Here is physical. Here is where everything happens. Wake up and enjoy it!"

Rather than focus on the HERE and NOW, the information given to Icke makes us focus on the future, making us powerless in the present. What I still don't understand though is why are we creating hell as our reality, when we can create anything? Why do we create and sustain the Illuminati to buttrape us?

[cleft_asunder]

Icke himself is confused on things and won't be long now before the 'illuminati' cut his puppet strings and he falls to his doom and everyone who has put so much stock into Icke, his works and others will be left in total dis-array and confusion. I try to warn them, but they refuse to listen to me.

Well you seem to be frothing at the mouth over it.

[edit]

the separation is the illusion..

Who DESIRES ( Loves in the full scale of it ) this way of life and makes universal illusions and illusion of Earth and humans on it ? Can THAT be created in a such a way to fit us better ? Any ideas ?

[barbitone]

What an absolutely interesting change in perspective compared to what was revealed to icke, and what is written in the book's A Course in Miracles and The disappearance of the Universe. On one hand we are taught to renounce and hate our illusory reality, just like the Gnostics, and to sit on our asses and wait for The One to make it all better again, and on the other hand we are taught to accept our reality and to think positive, and to shape it from the present.

What are you guys babbling about? Your just telling us what your interpretation is....No one said "hate your illusions", you're just hearing what you choose.

I've read "The disappearance of the Universe" and I'm familiar with the teachings of "A Course In Miracles". I am also very aware of what Ayahuasca is and it's effects, and about the active component "DMT"......]

If you think DMT is just some drug that warps your brain then you've got a lot to learn.....

Here's a suggestion, stop panicking about what sources the material comes from and just assess the info. If it rings true, good. If not, move on.

[barbitone]

Dr. Thetford’s Professional Bio, also available on the A Course in Miracles web site, makes reference to his involvement in a Personality Theory Research Project while Professor of Medical Psychology at Columbia University, but the information does not specifically cite this as a CIA MK- ULTRA SubProject.


I haven't found anything except theorists, mainly christian suprise suprise, just saying that he was MkUltra and therefore the information is just psychological war-fare. No facts.

I have a suspicion that these claims come from Christians.......:rolleyes:

Could it maybe be you, Cleft, that has been mis-informed? hmmm...?

[edit]

Is/was/will-be there anyone who is/was/will-be not mis-informed?

[cleft_asunder]

What are you guys babbling about? Your just telling us what your interpretation is....No one said "hate your illusions", you're just hearing what you choose.

I've read "The disappearance of the Universe" and I'm familiar with the teachings of "A Course In Miracles". I am also very aware of what Ayahuasca is and it's effects, and about the active component "DMT"......]

If you think DMT is just some drug that warps your brain then you've got a lot to learn.....

Here's a suggestion, stop panicking about what sources the material comes from and just assess the info. If it rings true, good. If not, move on.

Well you got me all wrong. When I mentioned Icke and the Aya trip he had, and how he was (perhaps) fed wrong information, I said this because the Aya could open you up to manipulation. That is why Aya is done regularly with a Shaman, whom Icke was with, but none-the-less it may be a possibility that a shaman being present isn't a guarantee that you aren't going to be manipulated.

So my point is that perhaps Icke was manipulated by the "entities" that seem to guide him to go to Peru, at which point the plan was to open him up through Aya so that specific messages could be given to him through the voice. The entities could be "humans" like Arden and Pursah, or demons, along those lines.

You could say that this is all a bit stretched, but I recall the character of Arden and Pursah in The Disappearance of the Universe, and BOY are they manipulators. At first I had respect for the two because of all the "truths" they had given to the author. At the time I was heavily into the Gnostic view/David Icke information, thus I was in "truth" heaven reading the book. But half-way through I realised that there is an underlying arrogance to their tone--an egoism, and certain parts of what they said --such as how the Illusion that is our current world DOESN'T exist, and that the Illusion (which doesn't exist) has nothing to do with The One. Huh!? Of course the Illusion exists as an illusion, and this illusion has everything to do with God since everything is ultimately one.

My point is that some would call it a stretch to say that the Illuminati would go out of their way to create books like The Disappearance of the Universe just to throw people like us off, but they do, because people like us are close to the truth of who we are. I'm very confident that this is their work. I believe that Arden and Pursah did show up pretending to be ascended masters for the purpose of a credible manipulation plan. I know they were lying because of the above details, and also there is no such thing as a being who has realised his true self that calls him or herself an ascended master. To know who you truly are is to know that you were never un-ascended.

What is their purpose? To disempower us by having us focus on the future. This is the ultimate way to disempower.

[cleft_asunder]

I haven't found anything except theorists, mainly christian suprise suprise, just saying that he was MkUltra and therefore the information is just psychological war-fare. No facts.

I have a suspicion that these claims come from Christians.......:rolleyes:

Could it maybe be you, Cleft, that has been mis-informed? hmmm...?

It's a possibility that I'm mis-informed, but given that there is an unbreakable link between ACIM and TDOTU, and that TDOTU is a blatant disinformation mission, I can only conclude that the misinformation in TDOTU heavily taints the credibility of ACIM.

[cleft_asunder]

Is/was/will-be there anyone who is/was/will-be not mis-informed?

Misinformation is one thing. Everyone is misinformed to some degree. But what I'm looking for is if Icke was intentionally fed disinformation.

[barbitone]

because the Aya could open you up to manipulation

What? Where did you pull that one out of? What makes you think that?

The entities could be demons in disguise.

Well then what chance do you possibly have? How the hell are you ever going to know what is true and not? aye? Perhaps your intuition? Perhaps it strikes a cord in your soul and it "feels" true. How do you know that your not a demon? Or me?

If a demons comes up to you and says "You are god experiencing itself subjectively, your current reality is an illusion of your making because you are the creator that has forgotten it's true identity and become disconnected from self (only in illusion). God is love. Love is eternal\infinite potential. Infinite love is the only truth, everything else is illusion...." etc etc, then is it really a demon then? What is the rue of thumb? If your a devout Christian then basically if it's not from the Bible then it's demons.....

such as how the Illusion that is our current world DOESN'T exist, and that the Illusion (which doesn't exist) has nothing to do with The One. Huh!?

What? What don't you understand? A world of duality has nothing to do with "oneness" does it? It has a lot to do with exactly that: "duality". Our world is defined by that which is not. It's all to do with relativity. This relative to that creates this and that. Otherwise it just IS.

Of course the Illusion exists as an illusion, and this illusion has everything to do with God since everything is ultimately one.


Exactly, I think your just not seeing the same thing I do. It does make sense, in a paradoxial way.:D It has nothing to do with the one because it what defines at as anything is that fact that it is "dualistic" or "relative". But of course it is all "the one" because there is nothing else. It may sound like a paradox but doesn't that make sense in itself?:D

I know they were lying because of the above details

:rolleyes:

and also there is no such thing as a being who has realised his true self that calls him or herself an ascended master. To know who you truly are is to know that you were never un-ascended.

I'm pretty darn sure they explain all this to you in the book. To Gary they are what he perceives as "ascended masters"......

What is their purpose? To disempower us by having us focus on the future. This is the ultimate way to disempower.

Again, where is this from? Who is having you focus on the future? I'm fairly certain that they mention being in the present moment a lot more.....

It's a possibility that I'm mis-informed, but given that there is an unbreakable link between ACIM and TDOTU, and that TDOTU is a blatant disinformation mission, I can only conclude that the misinformation in TDOTU heavily taints the credibility of ACIM.

:rolleyes: Are you, by any chance, a Christian?

[Anders Lindman]

ACIM could be a trap. Some people follow the Course, which takes an entire year, and then they begin with the Course again!

It could be that ACIM just makes people even more locked into the same belief system that they started with and even reinforces it.

ACIM talks about the voice of the ego and the voice of the Holy Spirit. The ego is presented as bad, bad. The Holy Spirit as salvation. Now, the problem is: if I read ACIM, and it says that there are only either the thoughts of the ego or the thoughts of the Holy Spirit, where then are my thoughts. :confused:

[montag]

I haven't found anything except theorists, mainly christian suprise suprise, just saying that he was MkUltra and therefore the information is just psychological war-fare. No facts.

I have a suspicion that these claims come from Christians.......:rolleyes:

Could it maybe be you, Cleft, that has been mis-informed? hmmm...?
Start here barbitone..
From 1971 to 1978 Thetford, along with David Saunders, headed the CIA mind control Project MKULTRA Subproject 130: Personality Theory.
William Thetford - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[chandrakavi]

In Basic school I once asked a Catholic priest, teacher in religion:
"Father is God an infinite and perfect being?
"Yes my son, he is"
"then can I ask you a question?"
"If God is an infinite being and also Perfect
can he create a Rock so so big, and so so heavy that even he can't lift it up?"
The priest found himself in trouble, kind of scared,
and said: " but that is a contradiction in terms,
I hope you are not going to lose your faith because of this question"
That left him thinking for quite a couple of days.

But in many questions I read here are similar to that I made which intended to
ask a question in such a way , that only intends to trap, either in contradiction, which a bit like philosophy sometimes intends to keep the answer for centuries, but the answer and interpretations could be many, so the question will remain.
It is an interesting play WITH WORDS on iCKE about his doing things right or wrong ,this and that, black and white.

Remember everything is self-reflection ,we live in the world of interpretations,
and what you see in Icke or anybody else is what is going on with you,
in your mind.

Socrates used to tell his disciples to go an learn the knack of speech of the
socratic men, who spoke very well, a bit like lawyers do, but their words had no depth, did not intend to, opposite to the depth of Mysticism of Socrates.
So good use of words can either make you go in circles, or use it well with depth, mysticism, and meaning.

Trap questions about David Icke can be made , are being made all the time, but too repeatedly, like an anti-propaganda campaign. I don't feel they are honest question, they have an intentionality to harm , sometimes, or convince some that do not analize things , or not been informed enough.

I just don't get the energy of those words under a positive light, that have something meaningful to say.

I feel there is something wrong when too many good things are said of someone, and also distrust when only bad things are said of someone,
in life to everyone and everything there is a balance, it's not all black, nor is it all white,
contradictions are sometimes used to make people think, and wake up.
And sometimes words are a bad substitute for experiencing, although there is no other way of communicating.

[baron von lotsov]

Well you seem to be frothing at the mouth over it.



Yes I can understand that, I often feel the same way on here when people just wont listen to anything that is not officially Mk Icke.

It's so obvious to me that these occultists and system workers have got to Icke. I don't dislike the man but I have been worried about him as he is being set up. I think he knows this now and if he had a lot of strength he will one day come clean and then we will all feel a lot better. I don't think he is intentionally misleading people; just that he himself has been worked on. There would be nothing I'd like to see more than his realise this and then go about exposing them. At least he does not endorse it anymore. That's a good start.

[tinmenace]

It's so obvious to me that...


Obvious how?

[baron von lotsov]

Obvious how?



They use all the standard techniques that are often exhibited on this forum as well. For example denouncing the ego when in fact the ego is anything that might question their brainwashing. Ego = bad (equivalent to) individuality = bad.

[amadeus]

Finally some real discussion around here :)

I've just finished reading "Infinite Love..." and I must say it left me bewildered. At the same time it also made me sad and somehow discouraged. To put it shortly: what's the point in anything(here) if everything is just an illusion? I love children, the nature, music...,just to mention a few of the wonderful things in this world, and to somehow 'have a laugh at it-not taking it too seriously' because its all an illusion(your children are only a combination of mums and dads computer program!) just makes me want to cry.

My awakening happened only a few years ago, and I'm not as "educated" about this stuff as many on this forum apparently are, so I haven't really yet formed a coherent theory of my own about this 'its all an illusion' approach. But this question disturbs me the most at the moment and keeps my mind occupied.

I just wanted to share with you how David's book made me feel, because the facts put to side, I would imagine that one of the important things David would care about is how his books make people feel.(Oh, but then again he says in (t)his book that he just felt like writing the book - not because he wanted to share anything...)

Just a few more things: I kept reading and turning the pages of "Infinite love..." waiting to read about who or what created the matrix and for what purpose in David's opinion, but just couldn't find an answer. And if your whole body is an illusion then how can the DNA/RNA of your 'body' function as an transmitter of the programming? Shouldn't the DNA/RNA be a program/illusion too?

Ok, I maybe just suffering from a first wave shock because of an paradigm shift in my perception of the world, but I still would like to have more logic to this theory presented by David and others.

[cruise4]

Hi ammadeus

But you got the idea... Yes? Thats all it is... an idea. Until concrete proof of Reptilians comes along along only a fool would believe in that theory to the exclusion of others.

The fact it may be an illusion doesn't change anything. All that was important is still important. The difference is there's much in this world that could work considerably better and I can't change a tyre if I don't understand how to use a jack. We can have what we've got... and a lot more besides, (cheers John). This is GOOD news. No-one dies.... This is GOOD news.

I first came across DI as a sports presenter years ago. He was a good one and I enjoyed his commentary. When he supposedly went mad, I didn't really have an opinion, except on the abysmal tracksuit he wore on the Wogan show. I thought wogan did a hatchet job.

Then this year I come across him again after getting into 911 truth.

I can't believe he's not in earnest. Whether controlled, disinfo, whatever... I couldn't care less. ITS INTERESTING STUFF.

The one thing you can be sure of is he's on the side of exposing the NWO as I see it anyway. That is concrete. Take it for what it is... research into the inexplicable and the explicable.

What you say about DNA/RNA has occured to me to. But I haven't finished the book yet!

[baron von lotsov]

Ask yourselves how the establishment deals with conspiracy researchers. We still have free speech so they can't bang them up, a few dropped dead but that started looking suspicious so if you were them what would you do?

[cleft_asunder]

Finally some real discussion around here :)

I've just finished reading "Infinite Love..." and I must say it left me bewildered. At the same time it also made me sad and somehow discouraged. To put it shortly: what's the point in anything(here) if everything is just an illusion? I love children, the nature, music...,just to mention a few of the wonderful things in this world, and to somehow 'have a laugh at it-not taking it too seriously' because its all an illusion(your children are only a combination of mums and dads computer program!) just makes me want to cry.

My awakening happened only a few years ago, and I'm not as "educated" about this stuff as many on this forum apparently are, so I haven't really yet formed a coherent theory of my own about this 'its all an illusion' approach. But this question disturbs me the most at the moment and keeps my mind occupied.

I just wanted to share with you how David's book made me feel, because the facts put to side, I would imagine that one of the important things David would care about is how his books make people feel.(Oh, but then again he says in (t)his book that he just felt like writing the book - not because he wanted to share anything...)

Just a few more things: I kept reading and turning the pages of "Infinite love..." waiting to read about who or what created the matrix and for what purpose in David's opinion, but just couldn't find an answer. And if your whole body is an illusion then how can the DNA/RNA of your 'body' function as an transmitter of the programming? Shouldn't the DNA/RNA be a program/illusion too?

Ok, I maybe just suffering from a first wave shock because of an paradigm shift in my perception of the world, but I still would like to have more logic to this theory presented by David and others.

Well you hit the nail on the head. What you've just described in the first paragraph is the apporopriate reaction to the Gnostic information in Icke's book. Rather than to love life, our children, nature, whatever, we are told that it's all illusion and we should seek a way out, or wait until some future time when The One will change it all or we are re-absorbed into the true nature of The One. As Story Waters said, espace is the prison. When we seek to escape physicality, we are saying that we're in a prison! Instead of focusingon the here and now, and loving and working towards realisation of the true self, we are taught that the world is an evil that we must transcend because it is "just an illusion."

The Illusory reality that we call the physical universe and the multiverse IS an Illusion, but it can ONLY be illusory, and there is nothing wrong with that. Think about it logically: this multiverse can only be The One expressed in a physical and other-dimensional form, therefore how can we treat it as a prison?

Think about your kids logically. Are they Illusions? That doesn't make sense because they EXIST--they are ALIVE, therefore the meaning of the word illusion is lost. Existence/conciousness = reality, not illusion, therefore the illusion is One conciousness, and Is The One. While it is most important to understand that the body is just a set of clothes, and inside we are The One, even the body is an expression of The One. It is manifested limitation.

But back to my original questions. Why are there Reptilians, demonic entities manipulating humans? Why is nature the way it is? Why did we choose for life to be like this?

[john white]

Shouldn't the DNA/RNA be a program/illusion too?


It is: if by "illusion" you mean a vibrating energy feild. That is all anything in this material universe is: a vibrating energy feild. The only reason we experiance anything as solid is that we are wearing an energy feild, created of energy feilds, designed to create the appearance that it is, and its so good at is function that we mostly fall for it continously without a deliberate effort to understand the greater nature of manifest "reality"

As Morpheus said in the Matrix: "You think thats Air your're breathing now?"

It's not of course: another energy field. But as long as our consciousness is within the "matrix", and especially whilst we remain mostly repressed and "asleep", we are bound by its apparent "rules"

[cleft_asunder]

What? Where did you pull that one out of? What makes you think that?



Well then what chance do you possibly have? How the hell are you ever going to know what is true and not? aye? Perhaps your intuition? Perhaps it strikes a cord in your soul and it "feels" true. How do you know that your not a demon? Or me?

If a demons comes up to you and says "You are god experiencing itself subjectively, your current reality is an illusion of your making because you are the creator that has forgotten it's true identity and become disconnected from self (only in illusion). God is love. Love is eternal\infinite potential. Infinite love is the only truth, everything else is illusion...." etc etc, then is it really a demon then? What is the rue of thumb? If your a devout Christian then basically if it's not from the Bible then it's demons.....



What? What don't you understand? A world of duality has nothing to do with "oneness" does it? It has a lot to do with exactly that: "duality". Our world is defined by that which is not. It's all to do with relativity. This relative to that creates this and that. Otherwise it just IS.



Exactly, I think your just not seeing the same thing I do. It does make sense, in a paradoxial way.:D It has nothing to do with the one because it what defines at as anything is that fact that it is "dualistic" or "relative". But of course it is all "the one" because there is nothing else. It may sound like a paradox but doesn't that make sense in itself?:D



:rolleyes:



I'm pretty darn sure they explain all this to you in the book. To Gary they are what he perceives as "ascended masters"......



Again, where is this from? Who is having you focus on the future? I'm fairly certain that they mention being in the present moment a lot more.....



:rolleyes: Are you, by any chance, a Christian?

What do you mean 'where did I pull that out from?' I just described to you that when Aya is done, it is important that a Shaman accompanies you, that in itself is proof that Aya isn't some willy-nilly drug. It takes responsibility and experience to do hard doses. To me it is common sense that when you expand your preception to realms that contain demons, that you can easily be manipulated if you don't have experience. I recall reading an Aya experience, back before I even heard Icke's name or Reptilians, about this guy who boiled A LOT of banisteriopsis Caapi and an MAOI --for a whole 2 or 3 days-- and after the thick brew was done, he took it and it was so powerful that he approached death. He said he entered a realm where the lizards that rule humanity were, and they were imcomprehensibly evil and it was only because of his desire to live that he made it out of the bad trip alive.

Aya is a tool, I don't deny it.

You wrote:

"If a demons comes up to you and says "You are god experiencing itself subjectively, your current reality is an illusion of your making because you are the creator that has forgotten it's true identity and become disconnected from self (only in illusion). God is love. Love is eternal\infinite potential. Infinite love is the only truth, everything else is illusion...." etc etc, then is it really a demon then? What is the rue of thumb? If your a devout Christian then basically if it's not from the Bible then it's demons....."

This is the point I'm trying to make. What's the best way to spread a lie? Wrap it in 97% truth, and let the 3% be such a powerful lie that the other 97% becomes trivial. This has nothing to do with Christianity. It is blatantly obvious that there is a constant war between light and dark in this universe, therefore demons should be viewed as manipulators. There is no reason to dismiss the possibility that the forces controlling Icke are dark forces. The problem with the message above, as I've already states, is that it make us look to the future for hope, which is a great evil since that is what has robbed us of power. Rather than discovering who we are NOW and changing reality NOW, we're sitting on our asses waiting because "the world is an illusion, and 2012 is coming, or God is hacking into the system." Do you get it yet?

You wrote:

"What? What don't you understand? A world of duality has nothing to do with "oneness" does it? It has a lot to do with exactly that: "duality". Our world is defined by that which is not. It's all to do with relativity. This relative to that creates this and that. Otherwise it just IS."

It has everything to do with The One, because it is the One in a different form. What is the source of duality? It's The One, because there is nothing else. So to say that it has nothing to do with The One is nonsense. Arten and Pursah specifically said that the Illusion or dream and The One have nothing to do with each other, yet throughout the whole book they talk about how duality is an Illusion. The fact of the matter is that the Illusion exists, and The One exists, which makes 2. That doesn't make much sense, unless the multiverse is The One. This makes sense, but in this case Arten and Pursah are wrong in saying that the "Illusion" --whatever that is, since the word has lost meaning-- is seperate or "has nothing to do with the one."

You wrote:

"Again, where is this from? Who is having you focus on the future? I'm fairly certain that they mention being in the present moment a lot more....."

In the beginning of the book, they have the audacity to shrug off living in the now and meditation in exchange for forgiveness. Their solution to becoming ascended masters just like them --to speed up the process-- is to adopt the holier than thou attitude of Jesus: "Have no grievences." Oh give me a fucking break! When someone tells me to stop being human--to renounce my humanity in exchange for spiritual advancement, I know immediately that it's a load. Being human and accepting your emotions, faults, your ego, are steps to rising above them. Through acceptance you easily rise above them. Arden And Pursah teach us to suppress, to always act perfect. Through suppression we make no progress in spirituallity, and that is the point of this book, to suppress spiritual progress.

Also, can you please not quote specific paragraphs? It makes things more difficult for me.

[cleft_asunder]

It is: if by "illusion" you mean a vibrating energy feild. That is all anything in this material universe is: a vibrating energy feild. The only reason we experiance anything as solid is that we are wearing an energy feild, created of energy feilds, designed to create the appearance that it is, and its so good at is function that we mostly fall for it continously without a deliberate effort to understand the greater nature of manifest "reality"

As Morpheus said in the Matrix: "You think thats Air your're breathing now?"

It's not of course: another energy field. But as long as our consciousness is within the "matrix", and especially whilst we remain mostly repressed and "asleep", we are bound by its apparent "rules"

I still don't understand why the Matrix is the way it is. I don't understand why we've created hell on Earth. I don't understand why nature seems more like the work of a evil creator than a benevolent one. I understand that Icke was supposedly revealed the answer in Time Loop, but I can't just trust it.

[phoebe]

Okay, here it is. I couldn't have made it clearer. If David Icke is being fed wrong information intentionally, then this is the information they seek to suppress:

"Many wish to ascend from this physical plane in order to exist as pure spirit – escaping here to get there. There is no separate spiritual plane. It is here and now, within us. This challenges the way in which we have put spirituality, the spiritual plane, on a pedestal – as being different from both what and where we are. We are the spiritual, expressed in the physical. We are the spiritual plane expressed as the physical plane. There is no difference except a choice, an angle, of perception; that is the illusion.
Our biological perceptive system creates the illusion of physical matter and time. This world is the spiritual plane expressed through our space-time perception. Physicality does not create our problems; it is the powerful lens through which we are exploring ourselves. It is time to stop blaming our physicality, our choice of expression, as the cause of our suffering. Blaming is a denial of self-responsibility – a denial of our creatorship. It is blaming a mirror for what it reflects. Physicality only ever makes manifest what is already spiritually present."

"The love, the peace, that has been projected onto existence in the spiritual plane, is available for you here and now. What you spiritually seek is not beyond this life. Ascension will not liberate you. That liberation is here and now, if you so choose it. This is seeing through the illusion of the veil. It is to see that there is no veil; there has never been any separation; the separation is the illusion. The divide of life and death does not separate you from anything. Death will not solve anything. Death will not free you. If you need death to free you then you are trapped, trapped in life. Life and death are not different. The physical plane and spiritual plane are not different. Death is an illusion. Life is an illusion. The beingness that you are both encompasses and creates this illusion."

"You cannot escape the beingness that you are. There is no escape. This realization taps into the deepest fear, "I am eternally trapped in suffering”, but it is also the greatest gift, for within it is the realization that there is nothing you need to escape from. Contained in what you fear is the realization that there is nothing to fear. There is nothing you desire that can not be experienced here. You do not need to shed your body; it separates you from nothing. Being alive in physicality separates you from nothing. All life is here: as above so below."

"Physical reality is not a cage. There is no separation to ascend across; release this duality; there is no boundary. The idea of ascension is the manifestation of separation from living your life fully in the here and now. Physicality is not separate from your spiritual being; physicality is the expression of your spiritual being. There is no separation in All That You Are. As long as the idea of ascension contains the energy of escape then it will be manifest as the experience of confinement (feeling trapped); escape is the creator, not liberator, of all cages. See the paradox. Release the journey of ascension to ascend. In ascension you do not go anywhere. To ascend is to open your eyes and see that you are ascended."

"We are spirit exploring itself within physical matter. Physical matter is nothing but an altered perception of our spiritual selves. The choice is yours as to whether you want to be separate from your complete spiritual self through the idea of a lack to be ascended, or whether you wish to release that, and unite your physical self with your spiritual self and unite the planes of existence within you. This is the realization that death is no escape; ascension is no escape; there is nothing to escape from. All ideas of escape are trying to escape what you are seeking. All that you have ever sought to escape has been your own reflection. The more you seek to not be here, the more here you are. Embrace the paradox. Here is spiritual. Here is now. Here is physical. Here is where everything happens. Wake up and enjoy it!"

Rather than focus on the HERE and NOW, the information given to Icke makes us focus on the future, making us powerless in the present. What I still don't understand though is why are we creating hell as our reality, when we can create anything? Why do we create and sustain the Illuminati to buttrape us?

Fantastic.
Totally reflects everything I have come to decide for myself
After years of being a 'conspiracy researcher'
Then later a 'spiritual searcher'.

IMO...
We create the Illuminati to 'buttrape us' (nice turn of phrase, btw lol)
In order to perpetuate our amnesia.
A scapegoat if you will.
In order to carrying on forgetting that we create our own reality.
Because if we were to truly accept that...
We would realise that we been responsible all along.
And to some people,
That is the most scary thing of all.

[cleft_asunder]

It seems like that's it phoebe.

[cleft_asunder]

Lostinstrangland wrote the below in The Awakening section.

So, we wanted to know the difference between 'good' and 'evil'. (Even though both are manifested illusions).

What was it like before?

Oneness. The knowing of Oneness that cannot be explained, it can only be felt.

Oneness does not mean that it doesn't matter how we react to our environment once we have realized that duality is in all, etc. Oneness means oneness- meaning that all is one; to hurt another is to hurt yourself.
Therefor, to me, Oneness simply means Infinite Love is the only truth; Everything else is illusion.

It is not so complicated. It doesn't need to be explained with clever, complex, mystifying riddles. But I do feel it is important right now, in the Time in which we are living, for as many people as possible to reach inside themselves and understand it.

Why? Because I know I, for one, would like something to be done to help end suffering- this is the only reason why. This is why I feel it is actually important to acknowledge the reality of what is going on in our world and not turn a blind eye.

Oneness can be felt in what is named 'transcendental meditation'. It can also, occasionally be felt in prayers; an experience which is so powerful that it will never leave the person, will always be a part of who they are. Oneness can be felt very powerfully in uplifting music, and in the joy of singing. In the sweetness and oneness of nature's own harmony; the birds singing in their ecstasy. Oneness can be felt by looking into the eyes of the innocent and in a baby's smile. We need to return to innocent.
All that has gone wrong here is that we have forgotten we are the dream-makers and not the dream.

For whatever reason, if the story is true, there was a Time when we decided we wanted to know the difference between 'good' and 'evil'. Therefor, we see now the suffering and torture that there is in the world. IT SHOULDN'T BE ALLOWED TO HAPPEN AT ALL. It may seem ok if we're ok. BUT IT ISN'T. And I don't think that we are as powerless as we may feel.

Only Love can conquer 'evil'. But we should do something to help spread this love, as well as awareness, which will lift the ignorance and replace ignorance with empowerment.
Einstein said that "The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing"

What seems to be true is for some reason our souls chose to come here and to experience life in the flesh. But it doesn't have to be this way- the way it is right now. We can return to 'Eden'. We will have to 'forgive all' because this will happen naturally when we 'understand all'. But we should never, never, NEVER forget, the Hell on earth in which we are living right now, and which could get worse through our prolonged ignorance.
If we hold onto the memory of what exactly 'good' and 'evil' is; what is happening in our world- combined with the truth of knowing Oneness; Infinite Love is the only truth; everything else is illusion........
Then 'evil' can never return.

[cleft_asunder]

It may be entirely simple. The fact of the matter is that if everything is one, and we realise everything is one because we all remember who we are, then evil can't exist because in order to do evil, one must believe that there is true duality; I am here, you are there. You are not me, I am not you. And through duality we seek to take away, to protect ourselves from, others, and such. But if we realise that everything that exists is The One, and we are it, then doing evil to another is the same as doing evil to oneself, therefore evil cannot exist.

The reason that evil exists currently is because of a concious choice to forget who we are. What else could it be?

[james777]

Well you seem to be frothing at the mouth over it.

Well, someone has to jump in 'balls deep'.......frothing or not........they still refuse.....

[barbitone]

This is the point I'm trying to make. What's the best way to spread a lie? Wrap it in 97% truth, and let the 3% be such a powerful lie that the other 97% becomes trivial. This has nothing to do with Christianity. It is blatantly obvious that there is a constant war between light and dark in this universe, therefore demons should be viewed as manipulators. There is no reason to dismiss the possibility that the forces controlling Icke are dark forces. The problem with the message above, as I've already states, is that it make us look to the future for hope, which is a great evil since that is what has robbed us of power. Rather than discovering who we are NOW and changing reality NOW, we're sitting on our asses waiting because "the world is an illusion, and 2012 is coming, or God is hacking into the system." Do you get it yet?

You make you look to the future for hope. Nobody but you. If the world is an illusion there is no future anyway....all there is is now. Show me the line where it tells you to place hope on the future.

It has everything to do with The One, because it is the One in a different form. What is the source of duality? It's The One, because there is nothing else. So to say that it has nothing to do with The One is nonsense. Arten and Pursah specifically said that the Illusion or dream and The One have nothing to do with each other, yet throughout the whole book they talk about how duality is an Illusion. The fact of the matter is that the Illusion exists, and The One exists, which makes 2. That doesn't make much sense, unless the multiverse is The One. This makes sense, but in this case Arten and Pursah are wrong in saying that the "Illusion" --whatever that is, since the word has lost meaning-- is seperate or "has nothing to do with the one."

"the fact of the matter is that the illusion exists" ???? Do you know how daft that is? "that doesn't make much sense" NO, because you're not comprehending it fully.

Also, can you please not quote specific paragraphs? It makes things more difficult for me.

No. It makes things easier for me so that's what I'll do. Ok?

It may be entirely simple. The fact of the matter is that if everything is one, and we realise everything is one because we all remember who we are, then evil can't exist because in order to do evil, one must believe that there is true duality; I am here, you are there. You are not me, I am not you. And through duality we seek to take away, to protect ourselves from, others, and such. But if we realise that everything that exists is The One, and we are it, then doing evil to another is the same as doing evil to oneself, therefore evil cannot exist.

The reason that evil exists currently is because of a concious choice to forget who we are. What else could it be?

I agree entirely with this.

[cleft_asunder]

You make you look to the future for hope. Nobody but you. If the world is an illusion there is no future anyway....all there is is now. Show me the line where it tells you to place hope on the future.



"the fact of the matter is that the illusion exists" ???? Do you know how daft that is? "that doesn't make much sense" NO, because you're not comprehending it fully.



No. It makes things easier for me so that's what I'll do. Ok?



I agree entirely with this.


Believe what you want.

[john white]

I still don't understand why the Matrix is the way it is. I don't understand why we've created hell on Earth. I don't understand why nature seems more like the work of a evil creator than a benevolent one. I understand that Icke was supposedly revealed the answer in Time Loop, but I can't just trust it.

It is becuase that is how the human consensus consciousness sees it: We ate the "apple of knowledge of good and evil" remember: we turned from harmony and created duality. Effectively: yet another energy feild (A blimmin big one!), created from a free will choice of the immortal human group mind. As for understanding, well understanding may be desirable, may even be acheivable, but it seems more a case of acceptance to me: then we have a firm foundation upon which to start writing our own story

And beyond acceptance, beyond our individuality and our self importance, beyond our temporary human ego's, our eggshells, ultimately it is a matter of surrender: for we are but impermanent tourists, and we are not here to stay

[dondaz]

Wow. Best thread I've read this month! Wish I could join in, but I know jack about this stuff, so post some more for us spiritual newbies;)

Brilliant thread clefty!

[tejas]

This thread is the BOTTOM LINE.
Everything else about reptillians, illuminati, about who did what behind whose back, about what happened millenia ago, about who manipulates who, is all a story a sidetrack, everything now comes down to this.

HOW DO WE CREATE THIS REALITY?

If it is true that I, me myself am responsible for all of the evil in this world, if I do accept it, then how come I can't change it at will?

[Anders Lindman]

I can only rationally conclude that David is questioning the validity of the information supplied to him under Ayahuasca by "The One."

Alan Watt said that in a Canadian TV program they showed devices made many years ago that could be pointed at a person's head and the person would hear a voice or whatever sound was transmitted to inside his or her head.

I don't know how much of that is true though.

[vienna]

Alan Watt made a very good point about the elite introducing eastern thinking into the west to create an inert state of mind among people uncovering the truth

he described how the Brahman culture of India created people capable of watching loved ones being slaughtered without intervening - as they're taught all is an illusion -

it seems a very good tactic for leading those on the path to exposing the truth and NWO agenda up a blind alley of inactivity like a mental and spiritual cul de sac

if there is a soul to be developed it is done through development through doing and interacting with the material universe for the greater good (which I believe is quantifiable and tangible ) and not passively observing it

[brotherapostate]

Just like everything else, I just take the things I like and ditch the rest. Surely only a fool would believe 100% of what Icke says 100% of the time?

[tejas]

Ive read the teachings of Abraham and now some of this Story Waters Material, and I have a real problem with the materialistic and almost self indulgent view point that it presents.

I find that if the Gnostic viewpoint that is apparent in Ickes work is a trap because it keeps us continual state of 'waiting for the one' to do something

Then this viewpoints trap can be seen as 'everythings fine, its all your creation' which it may or may not be. If it isn't my/our creation then all this will do is implant another false belief system into me/you as we sit on our arses attempting to turn water into wine while bush invades iran.

If it is our creation that makes me wonder. Hypothetically lets say I have a friend, he cares not for anything like this, the wars and atrocities of the world mean nothing to him, as long as he gets his paycheck and some pussy then hes happy. And oh boy does he get paycheck, pussy and happiness! He is creating his own reality unaware and its all fine and dandy, he lives in total ignorance of spiritual truths, it means nothing to him. Its not important, but hes living in a blissfull ignorance creating his beautiful reality unaware that he is doing so because he is willfully ignorant of the worlds ills.

Counteract that to another friend, he cares deeply about the world, he sees the suffering in and around him all day long, it makes his eyes bleed and resorts him to weeping. He spends day and night thinking, hypothesizing about truth and spiritual matters, doing whatever. He is creating for himself a hell, hes poor and never gets laid.

Does this viewpoint promote the stick your fingers in your ears lalalala everything is fine ignorance is bliss kind of attitude or what?

As you move through different sensations and states of being you send out the energy of your vibration. To this the mechanism of your reality says only one thing to you. It says, “And So It Is”. Whenever you feel ‘Oh this is fabulous!’ you send out that energy. Whenever you feel ‘This is a disaster, everything is falling apart!’ you send out that energy. The universe does not in any way analyze or contemplate this. It does not think before it sends you a reply. It simply takes what you send out and reflects it back to you, saying ‘And So It Is’.

Can I take the blue pill now?

[Anders Lindman]

Alan Watt made a very good point about the elite introducing eastern thinking into the west to create an inert state of mind among people uncovering the truth


I have found it helpful to listen to people like Alan Watt and David Icke, but there is grave danger that instead of being manipulated by mainstream media we become manipulated by conspiracy gurus.

Follow no one, not even yourself. :D

[rossus]

I have found it helpful to listen to people like Alan Watt and David Icke, but there is grave danger that instead of being manipulated by mainstream media we become manipulated by conspiracy gurus.

Follow no one, not even yourself. :D
indeed. :)

[Anders Lindman]

indeed. :)

BUT, I just found another method. The mind becomes confused if it has nothing to follow. One way of solving this problem is to follow one's feelings. So then the mind has something to follow, namely the doctrine: "follow your feelings", and the feelings can be used as a very powerful guide/feedback system. When I put my hand into bathwater, then I want it to be not too cold, nor too hot. The same with feelings/emotions. They should directly, INSTANTLY feel right.

[thirdwave]

It is: if by "illusion" you mean a vibrating energy feild. That is all anything in this material universe is: a vibrating energy feild. The only reason we experiance anything as solid is that we are wearing an energy feild, created of energy feilds, designed to create the appearance that it is, and its so good at is function that we mostly fall for it continously without a deliberate effort to understand the greater nature of manifest "reality"

As Morpheus said in the Matrix: "You think thats Air your're breathing now?"

It's not of course: another energy field. But as long as our consciousness is within the "matrix", and especially whilst we remain mostly repressed and "asleep", we are bound by its apparent "rules"

what he said.

[rossus]

i don't think it's impossible that Icke has been deceived during (or even before) his ayahuasca trip.
a buddy of mine, he is kind of a natural born shaman.
he used to trip on mushrooms and he said the demons tried to deceive him many times.

they were offering him spiritual powers (siddhis) but he knew that in return for that,
he would have to give up some of his own free will and he's not in to that.
he doesn't trip anymore nowadays.

he also told me that he chooses not to be a shaman and use mushrooms anymore,
because it is risky business. he says most shamans or most people who have contact with "spirits",
at some point become possessed or at least become heavily deceived.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

a muslim friend of mine, said that before he found god... he used to practice magic.
and having contact with spirits is like playing with fire...

because they are probably djinns (demons) who don't want to help you,
and are only interested in how they can use you.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

one time i took ayahuasca in a group who take ayahuasca together often,
they say they take ayahuasca to spiritually heal, or spiritually evolve...
by connecting with "the forces of nature"...

but to be honest, the whole vibe did feel kind of demonic...

i remember looking at one guy during the ceremony,
maybe it's was my paranoia... but he looked "possessed".

i didn't really become intoxicated by the ayahuasca,
it is said that for some people it takes more than one try...
before "lady ayahuasca" decides to "take them" on the journey.

i didn't take ayahuasca again after that,
because the people seemed kind of "strange"....

they claimed they grow spiritually and "learn" new things each time they take ayahuasca.
that's why they take the ayahuasca every 2 weeks... year in year out.
but they didn't seem very spiritually evolved at all.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

in most countries of the EU,
all known psychedelics are illegal to buy, sell or consume...

but what that group is doing seems to be legal,
because to participate i needed to sign "legal forms", in case anything went wrong.

these ayahuasca-ceremony's are even legal in the US.
they told me there has been a court-case in the US, but they won. :eek:

maybe they got friends in politics who can make an exception to the rule,
because they know that this group is "satanic"?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

and last year, there was a television program on national TV,
where VIP's (famous actors of our country) did exotic things.
like eat insects or try Ayurveda-therapy, typical sensational stuff.

one thing they had to do, was take ayahuasca in the guidance of a shaman.
yes, these actors were tripping on ayahuasca and it was being shown on television. :eek:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

i don't think taking ayahuasca will open you up to demonic influence per se,
but taking it in a ceremony with people who are in to that shit... might increase chance.

that group i was talking about is called "santo daime" church.
i don't know if they are "satanic", so i won't claim they are.
but i'm definately open to the possibility.


BUT, I just found another method. The mind becomes confused if it has nothing to follow. One way of solving this problem is to follow one's feelings. So then the mind has something to follow, namely the doctrine: "follow your feelings", and the feelings can be used as a very powerful guide/feedback system. When I put my hand into bathwater, then I want it to be not too cold, nor too hot. The same with feelings/emotions. They should directly, INSTANTLY feel right.
yes, but even feelings can betray us. :eek:

i agree though, intuition.. or feelings... seem to be the best thing we can use to seperate "good" from "bad".

[Anders Lindman]

yes, but even feelings can betray us. :eek:

i agree though, intuition.. or feelings... seem to be the best thing we can use to seperate "good" from "bad".

I will write about some of the ideas about following feelings in a new thread. I haven't thought this trough yet so it could be interesting to try to pin down. :)

[tejas]

I will write about some of the ideas about following feelings in a new thread. I haven't thought this trough yet so it could be interesting to try to pin down. :)

It is quite apparent just how easily feelings can betray us.

Hypnosis can induce fake feelings, antidepressives, chocolate.

Hell, while drunk people feel they can do anything...

[cleft_asunder]

Interesting perspective Rossus, thank you.

[tejas]

What then can you trust?

[Anders Lindman]

It is quite apparent just how easily feelings can betray us.


Don't forget how also thoughts can betray us. Most of the way we think has been programmed into us, so monitoring the thinking process itself is important.

[tejas]

Don't forget how also thoughts can betray us. Most of the way we think has been programmed into us, so monitoring the thinking process itself is important.

I don't doubt that at all.

But then what can you trust? Both thoughts feelings and the apparent supernatural experience can fool us.

The only thing you can be entirely sure of is to not be sure of anything.

[rossus]

the only thing i trust my soul with is love. :)
other than that i know nothing.

[tejas]

the only thing i trust my soul with is love. :)
other than that i know nothing.

:)

At least you can trust that, I used to trust that :(

Nice words though,

I guess that means that I know nothing :./

[seanx]

There is no actually conflict.

Icke doesn't say -we must hate the illusionary world. He says
we must see it for what it is - i.e this is a form of acceptance or
non-resistance.

Only when we have this understanding - can we change reality
by changing our deeply-felt beliefs.

Also, reading Icke's books - he uses and relies on thing only, and
not drugs - when guiding him - and that is his intuition.

Whether icke is right or wrong is not actually the issue- use of us
has to use our OWN intuition to lead and direct ourselves.

He's only describing his own experiences.

[tejas]

Icke learns as we all learn

He is human like us all.

[king]

I've been thinking a great deal about the Matrix, how supposedly it has been hijacked by fear,


I am not buying that Matrix is feeding off the fear, if it was that way -- Matrix would have self destructed once there is no more fear.


and which sustains itself through fear;

this is highly doubtful, because of stated reasons.


the 3d timeloop we currently reside in being the power generator.


to me Icke's timeloop theory is not holding water.

Ever since I read 'The disappearance of the Universe' and found out that the book which it highlights as a profound work is in fact a mind-control test of some sort.

I am not suprised if it was some form of mind control. just implying that universe can disappear sounds crazy.


The book is called 'A Course in Miracles' and was written down by Helen Schucman, who started to hear a voice in her head which told her what to write. That voice said it was Jesus, and it took her 7 years to write down the material. The Course and the other book are like a Gnostics dream come true, and they go into exactly the same things that Icke was revealed by The One. Unfortunately, if you do research on Helen Schucman, you will find that MK-ULTRA comes into the scene, which should activate your warning alarm.

good points!
Icke and Helen both heard voices in their heads.
how do they know who and why placed the voices in their heads?
were those good spirits/entities or bad ones?

Icke initially claimed he is son of God. Majority of cnanneled information is very likely just CIA/MI5/6 psychotronic weaponry. Nick Begich has demonstrated a few decades back such weaponry that can place voices in your head. think what is possible nowadays!

I would not be surprised if Icke is/was under some form of MK weaponry.


In David's second vidcast, an individual asked him "who controls the controllers, and who controls them?" And David answered, "well, I don't know the answer to that."


I actualy asked the same question a while back, because it did not make sense to me how Icke have seen the Martix of control.
if someone controls the controllers then such control has to be from spiritual realm, not visible human realm. just because the coordination of this control seems to be out of this world. what group of people can pull out this kind of incredible conspiracy UNLESS there is some other realm that is the ultimate controller?
And, if we just look carefully we will see that there is no secret society that was and still is on absolute top of hierarchy, that changes with ages, but there are many different secret societies that seem to get stronger and weaker as the time goes on, and their power is based on level of magick that they currently have, which in turn is directly proportional with exchange of power (using rituals and occult) with invisible realm where entities exist.



Excuse me? You sounded pretty confident when you wrote Time Loop and Infinite Love, where the question was answered by "the voice" (AKA The One). What happened? Not so confident anymore David? I can only rationally conclude that David is questioning the validity of the information supplied to him under Ayahuasca by "The One."

of course he is. I knew years ago that he was beginning to awaken that he has been used as a tool. But, man has to eat, therefore he keeps talking about reptilians and ayahuasca and timeloops and people keep buying his books.
Anyone who is immersed in this shit as long as Icke has been -- has to know what is disinformation, or plain B.S. sooner or later.



When The One talks to you and tells you what's going on, it's not something you would dismiss or forget!

"the one" that Icke have seen in his drugged out state (as he was after ayahuasca began to flow through his veins)
is most likely NOT the one. Basically, just like many religious people who have seen their favored religious figure -- icke has seen his figure, but in reality he cannot possibly see "the one" but only representation of "the one" as perceived by his own beliefs!
That is why Christians see Jesus, Muslims see the prophet and Icke have seen "the one".
it is all based on your belief, and i do not think that this is actually a bad thing. Most of the people would not recognise the God/One if if hits them in the head.


You really have to start to wonder weather David has been manipulated to reach certain damaging conclusions under the effects of Ayahuasca --damaging in the sense that it makes us passive rather than active. Remember, it was Icke's FIRST experience with psychoactive chemicals, and he started with the most hardcore one.
I am pretty positive that he was, not only manipulated, but something changed him afterwards. as if he got a demon attached to him or something. there was another member on old forum (James) who took aya and who posted his experiences. James was really well prepared too, physicaly and mentally, but Icke tried aya in a whim, on recommendation of Stu Wilde. no wonder ayahuasca is called

Sacred Vine Of Spirits/Cosmic Serpent/vine of the dead

High degree masons like Crowley would actually perform initiation and they would take even more powerful demon during aya ceremony.
I think that Icke was setup, as he was totally unprepared for aya ordeal.





"The key to conscious creatorship is the allowance of change; the birthing of the unknown into the known. [b]The basis of allowance is acceptance. To change your reality you must first accept it. As long as you reject what you do not like about your reality you are in denial of your creatorship, leaving you feeling stuck. To accept that you are choosing your reality, release attachment to any preconception of how life should be and instead love what is. This comes through the taking of complete responsibility for every element of your reality. This is to love your choice. It is to love yourself. You are the choice of yourself."


oh my, i wish i understood this 9 years ago... because in last few months or so i got so tired of this conspiracy crap, i began to accept my life and reality around me as is and i began to love and enjoy life lot more. but, to be realistic, if someone told me (and i was told this earlier) that i should let things go -- i would not be able to understand this that i understand now.
yes, acceptance of life as is, allowing that what has to happen
can happen without unnecessary resistance is what i learned as well.

I stopped trying to awaken the people, i started to live my life and notice what i was missing.
first of all, you cannot awaken those who do not want to awaken, and you cannot change the world by changing those around you. YOU need to change, and that is the key.




On one hand we are taught to renounce and hate our illusory reality, just like the Gnostics, and to sit on our asses and wait for The One to make it all better again, and on the other hand we are taught to accept our reality and to think positive, and to shape it from the present.

and we know which method can bear fruit


An additional detail about David Icke these days reveals that he is (perhaps) abandoning the ideas in Infinite Love regarding 2012.


infinite love, even though it sounds as a noble idea cannot come from a crazy world where there so much hate, nger, pain and suffering. it can only come when such conditions are removed, and that can only happen when consciousness of people is raised.

2012 will not change anything, that is again looking outside for help, an event or space aliens or big daddy or...
universe does not work that way.


In Infinite Love he stated that "something else is going on" in regards to 2012. It's not just another meaningless astrological change to get us into a new and temporary golden age, as all the 2012 "experts" claim, but rather The One is hacking into the system and the whole Multiverse is going to be redesigned from a creation of frear to a creation of love. Okay, but he never even goes into this anymore, like he never wrote it.

[/QUOTE]

"the one hacking into his creation -- this sounds retarded.
why would creator of all has to "hack" into his system?

if you look how powerful we really are when we are in synch with creation -- you can see that whatewer is designed is designed as multiple redundant system, for our own protection.

the way out of this "mess" is to realign our souls and our spirits with the flow of the universe/creation.

with that -- we are so powerful that we cannot even begin to imagine.

most of those "explanations" that Tsarion, Maxwell, Icke and many others are publishing is bunch of shit.

remember that saying that "temple of God is within you"
once you know that -- you can laugh on what people write about angels and demons, reptilians and aliens that are going to get your as.
because -- they are not!
know thyself and you will be just fine.

[tejas]

Man, know thyself and ye shall know the Gods and universe also!

[chandrakavi]

Man, know thyself and ye shall know the Gods and universe also!


Absolutely right way to live!

[tejas]

Yeah its a nice saying...

Now what does it actually mean....?

[lifeofbrian]

Before I get into this, I want to say that I highly respect Icke. The man is genuine in his effort to find the truth, to say the least, and what he has discovered about the world is blatantly true, even to the point of the Reptilians. But it is information in regards to the highest level of the game that concerns me.

I've been thinking a great deal about the Matrix, how supposedly it has been hijacked by fear, and which sustains itself through fear; the 3d timeloop we currently reside in being the power generator. Okay, it makes sense, and maybe it's true, but maybe it's not. Ever since I read 'The disappearance of the Universe' and found out that the book which it highlights as a profound work is in fact a mind-control test of some sort. The book is called 'A Course in Miracles' and was written down by Helen Schucman, who started to hear a voice in her head which told her what to write. That voice said it was Jesus, and it took her 7 years to write down the material. The Course and the other book are like a Gnostics dream come true, and they go into exactly the same things that Icke was revealed by The One. Unfortunately, if you do research on Helen Schucman, you will find that MK-ULTRA comes into the scene, which should activate your warning alarm.

In David's second vidcast, an individual asked him "who controls the controllers, and who controls them?" And David answered, "well, I don't know the answer to that." Excuse me? You sounded pretty confident when you wrote Time Loop and Infinite Love, where the question was answered by "the voice" (AKA The One). What happened? Not so confident anymore David? I can only rationally conclude that David is questioning the validity of the information supplied to him under Ayahuasca by "The One." When The One talks to you and tells you what's going on, it's not something you would dismiss or forget! You really have to start to wonder weather David has been manipulated to reach certain damaging conclusions under the effects of Ayahuasca --damaging in the sense that it makes us passive rather than active. Remember, it was Icke's FIRST experience with psychoactive chemicals, and he started with the most hardcore one.

Displeased with the whole situation and not knowing how to find any anwers, I ran into a book titled 'You Are God. Get Over It!' The author doesn't beat around the bush does he? On the Amazon link below, he gives us a few paragraphs, and the third one sheds some light on the mystery.

"The key to conscious creatorship is the allowance of change; the birthing of the unknown into the known. The basis of allowance is acceptance. To change your reality you must first accept it. As long as you reject what you do not like about your reality you are in denial of your creatorship, leaving you feeling stuck. To accept that you are choosing your reality, release attachment to any preconception of how life should be and instead love what is. This comes through the taking of complete responsibility for every element of your reality. This is to love your choice. It is to love yourself. You are the choice of yourself."

What an absolutely interesting change in perspective compared to what was revealed to icke, and what is written in the book's A Course in Miracles and The disappearance of the Universe. On one hand we are taught to renounce and hate our illusory reality, just like the Gnostics, and to sit on our asses and wait for The One to make it all better again, and on the other hand we are taught to accept our reality and to think positive, and to shape it from the present.

An additional detail about David Icke these days reveals that he is (perhaps) abandoning the ideas in Infinite Love regarding 2012. In Infinite Love he stated that "something else is going on" in regards to 2012. It's not just another meaningless astrological change to get us into a new and temporary golden age, as all the 2012 "experts" claim, but rather The One is hacking into the system and the whole Multiverse is going to be redesigned from a creation of frear to a creation of love. Okay, but he never even goes into this anymore, like he never wrote it.


This extract from an e-mail made public in 2005 might enligten you a little:

RE: e-mail about Mr. Icke commentary

Extract from e-mail by A Deane, to David Icke and Dan Winter, 14th January 2005

A while back, a friend brought Icke's name to my attention saying I should look into this because of his work on tracing the Illuminati lines and how it corresponds to my work in areas which cover disclosure of the "Black Sun DNA" substrand matrices and the vulnerability to manipulation of people who inadvertantly carry this scalar-wave template distortion in their DNA. Unfamiliar with Icke's books and honestly too busy to get involved with other peoples work of this sort, I was ignoring the Icke issue until my Emerald Order GA contacts nudged me to explore his website a little, because, they said, he was originally on the right track, but was now a prime target for manipulation by the Illuminati human-Zeta Rigalian-Dracos alliance, who had targeted him as a subject for disinformation (among other things).

I responded to a few of the questions on the site asking for reader info, on various subjects and Mr. Icke replied e-mail, interested. He was to call me after return from a trip. Meanwhile, I decided to save us both some wasted time, and wrote him a long e-message explaining who the reptilians were and what family lines they emerged from - including some of the ancient history of these races. I figured it best to "lay-it-all-on-the-table" and show up front the extent of the data I have, knowing it may be "over his head" to the point where it would alienate him from wanting to know. In that case at least I wouldn't waste time communicating with him. Well, he never did call as he'd promised to do once I blasted him with realities behind the agendas, and I felt this would happen because he would most likely be directed away from the true-history information if he was already being manipulated - he is useful to the Illuminati, even if he speaks outwardly against them, for if they can influence him, they can create "damage control" and "slight of hand" distraction from the real issues of true history-genetic connections to distortions in ancient mystical and religious teachings and especially keep him from tripping over the contemporary hybridization and "One World Order" projects currently underway - which are the subjects the Illuminati most want to conceal.

I had sensed he was already being messed with, especially through D-4 Zeta implantation, and that he would probably reject any information of clarity and the "Big Picture" that I could possibly supply. It appears that I was right at least to some degree, as he didn't bother calling as he had originally expressed e-enthusiasm to do. I shrugged and went about my business, yet felt that the Icke issue wasn't fully over, and that he was connected to Emerald Order work through his own genetic heritage.

It was interesting to see the e-mail sent to the [...] regarding another person's concern that Icke was now being set up and used to provide disinformation, as this confirmed what I had already been told by GA - he was a "good guy" being messed with by the Zeta-Dracos-Illuminati bunch, to inadvertently provide distraction from real issues and to generate false leads that he fully believed to be the real thing. I was also told that he was on the Illuminati "hit list" and would be valuable to them only to the extent that he could be manipulated as a disinformation agent, that they "had him on a short and controllable leash" and that if he began to get the bigger picture they would then "pull him in for mind wipe and reprogramming" or arrange his disappearance - whatever more suited their agenda, most likely the former approach. From the little I know of his work, mostly from other people's references, I have heard that that he traces things back to ancient cultures and sees the Bible and other mystical schools as being manifestations of Illuminati manipulation and control mechanism used in our cultures - he is partly right, many of these organizations and teachings were used by the Illuminati and their "ET/Angelic/Visitor" kin, to mess up human evolution. But it seems that he thinks (from what I have heard) that all such teachings and institutions were "bad", when in truth, many of the ancient teachings were provided by "good guy" visitors, to lead us to knowledge of the ancient "Templar" - the Cathar/Kathara Grid control mechanics of the planetary grid and inter-dimensional star gates, and the processes of biological transmutation ascension through which the star gates (also called ascension passages) could be used.

If he is used to promote the message that all ancient spiritual and mystical teachings were Illuminati manipulation, he will generate mistrust in people in learning to use the real mechanics being offered in teachings - which are the very mechanics by which we can protect our biofields and beings from the mind-control technologies he himself is beginning to identify.

It seems that in his work Icke got so far, and began to find the truth on the lineages involved with the reptilian Illuminati, but he didn't get further in understanding the greater history and heritage involved with our lineage and the legitimate core behind the mystical teaching distortions, so he isn't receptive to the advanced scalar-physics-science/ascension science, that is the key to understanding the whole drama and to protectiong oneself from manipulation. It seems that he thinks he can take on the "reptilian force" by exposing possibilities of their family lines and covert practices, but he doesn't realize how big the drama really is or that the core motivation behind it has always been who will control the valuable real-estate of the [...] star gates. He is picking a fight and underestimating the scope and expanse of his chosen "adversary". He is publicaly stepping on Illuminati toes aggressively and directly, in a way that makes him a target. If he can't be "conveniently re-directed" to provide disinformation through covert manipulation (like the more conventional method of 'planting' information-disinformation for him to 'discover', which is most likely what has happened in regard to the 'Arizona Wilder' witness addresses in the [...] mail) or if he doesn't succumb to mind-wipe bodysnatch technology often used to take over the ideological campaigns of public figures on the "hit list", then before too long they will simply "take him out" for the purpose of "damage control" regarding the covert Illuminati agendas.

His approach isn't helping the public much either, for in "identifying the enemy" - the Illuminati reptilians he goes after - he is generating fear and possibly anger in people who choose to believe his paradigm, but he does not yet have the antidote to healing this fear and anger, which is the comprehension of the 15-dimensional anatomy and how to use true advanced spiritual technologies that were once contained in ancient holy books before those teachings were edited or twisted by the Illuminati families.

He is also exposing people to the same vulnerabilities of "a little information can be a dangerous thing", as he is motivating people to become aware and take action to stop Illuminati agendas "from the outside" - encouraging or inspiring others to expose themselves to direct covert attack, like he is now doing to himself, be leading people to believe this Illuminati "One World Agenda" can be handled through the "ego power" alone. Ego has it's purpose, but if it does not expand to comprehend the greater spiritual aspects of reality, such as the reality of the 15-dimensional biofield and the higher dimensional aspects of consciousness (the Spiritual aspects of human reality) that are part of that anatomy, then the ego is powerless in the face of the interdimensional mind-control technologies presently in use by the Illuminati.

In viewing all mystical pursuit as control mechanics of the Illuminati, he is cutting off from himself the very "peaceful weapons of immunity" of true spiritual consciousness - the science of Merkaba Mechanics and integration of the higher identity - that one needs in facing the Illuminti head-on. In his own misunderstanding of the original "good core" behind most of the ancient spiritual teachings (before their distortions to control methods) and his unawareness that there are other groups of well intented visitors along with the reptilian strains and their human Illuminati operatives, he is personally stuck in a fear-based mind-set through which he thinks he can "take on the Illuminati" through ego-self and non-mystical tactics alone, an approach he eventually will find leads one to underestimate the danger of situation you place yourself in - walking into a self-chose battle "unarmed" as it were with the interdimensional technologies and comprehension of the human mind and spirit that are needed to create protection and become a force of healing rather than an instigator of combat you are ill-prepared to enter.

Unfortunately, in his own apparent misunderstanding of the higher nature of spiritual teachings (which has nothing to do with following the "laws" of distorted ancient texts and everything to do with learning to comprehend true teachings on the structure and function of bio-spiritual consciousness), he not only leaves himself open for direct covert attack, he unintentionally encourages his readers to do the same.

With the knowledge of family lines of the "Black Sun DNA" (again, this has nothing to do with skin colour racial issues), and the outer research he is putting together to reveal their historical use of spiritual teaching to misguide and control humans, Icke could be a powerful force for positive change and human empowerment, if he were to place that knowledge within the greater context of true historical understanding of the stellar race history and influence, which includes the "good guy" teachings of expanded spiritual/inter-dimensional mechanics through which the solutions can be found. As it is, he is identifying the threat, generating awareness of this in others, yet is providing no real solutions to how one can protect themselves and "rise above" the reality this drama implies. [...]

Extract from e-mail by A Deane, to David Icke and Dan Winter, 14th January 2005.

[tejas]

This extract from an e-mail made public in 2005 might enligten you a little:

Anymore info from this guy? Links etc?

The struggle we face is on an individual spiritual basis. No amount of physical manipulation can cure this.

For we fight not against flesh and blood, but principalities and powers in high places

[lifeofbrian]

Anymore info from this guy? Links etc?

The struggle we face is on an individual spiritual basis. No amount of physical manipulation can cure this.

Plenty more info. The rest of the e-mail and the solutions; techniques and protection, loads of links. Can put it together for you and post tomorrow, no time now.

[tejas]

Plenty more info. The rest of the e-mail and the solutions; techniques and protection, loads of links. Can put it together for you and post tomorrow, no time now.

Go for it!

[eternal_spirit]

Quote LifeofBrian from Quoted email

Unfamiliar with Icke's books
...................

( means he's jumping to conclusions as to what info Icke has in his books )


Quote from email
I have heard that that he traces things back to ancient cultures and sees the Bible and other mystical schools as being manifestations of Illuminati manipulation and control mechanism used in our cultures - he is partly right, many of these organizations and teachings were used by the Illuminati and their "ET/Angelic/Visitor" kin, to mess up human evolution. But it seems that he thinks (from what I have heard) that all such teachings and institutions were "bad", when in truth, many of the ancient teachings were provided by "good guy" visitors, to lead us to knowledge of the ancient "Templar" - the Cathar/Kathara Grid control mechanics of the planetary grid and inter-dimensional star gates, and the processes of biological transmutation ascension through which the star gates (also called ascension passages) could be used.
.................

( This is also wrong. Icke does explain that some of the original knowledge was for the good of man.)

Quote from email

he does not yet have the antidote to healing this fear and anger, which is the comprehension of the 15-dimensional anatomy and how to use true advanced spiritual technologies that were once contained in ancient holy books before those teachings were edited or twisted by the Illuminati families.

..........................

So, if there's any truth in this ( advanced spiritual technologies for good) Who has the answers how to use and manipulate it for good :confused:

I've studied shit loads of texts and I'm none the wiser. :(

[chandrakavi]

Man, know thyself and ye shall know the Gods and universe also!

You want to know what it means.
Well a LOT is said in a small sentence.
It is a sutra, where millions of concepts were said in small sentences.

Know thyself. In your spirituality, your inner self, once you know who you are, what your destiny is, what you have come to do here, when that is clear to you, through the inner search, you will live YOUR life. the question that has been asked for millions of years. WHO AM I? Once you know this for sure, you'll know what to do with your life, you will be your own guide, a light unto yourself.

AND YOU SHALL KNOW THE GODS

The gods are part of our inner self. The goddess of love--VENUS
Communication--Mercury, ZEUS---God of all gods,Jupiter--another name for the god of gods and of plenty and abundance, Mars--destructive god of war, Neptune--god of the sea,(feelings),Pluton--god of destruction,(different diseases) there is a god for everything we are capable of achieving, all these feelings or gods are all inside us, part of us, live with us,
with our spirit and soul.

...AND THE UNIVERSE ALSO

The universe is a way of living and seeing the big picture, away from the local,
what is universal is the WHOLE, not just a part, a fraction we are all living in,
different countries, different languages, the entire knowledge and wisdom,
without limitation.

This explained in a very short way

INFINITE LOVE TO YOU

[thirdwave]

just seeing the name of this thread made me think...

yes he could be getting bad info which is why its always good to use your own perception... and not look for others to tell you what to believe...

[eternal_spirit]

just seeing the name of this thread made me think...

which is why its always good to use your own perception... and not look for others to tell you what to believe...
.................

This is also part of Icke's message.

[thirdwave]

.................

This is also part of Icke's message.


and very good advice.

[infinitely free]

It is: if by "illusion" you mean a vibrating energy feild. That is all anything in this material universe is: a vibrating energy feild. The only reason we experiance anything as solid is that we are wearing an energy feild, created of energy feilds, designed to create the appearance that it is, and its so good at is function that we mostly fall for it continously without a deliberate effort to understand the greater nature of manifest "reality"

As Morpheus said in the Matrix: "You think thats Air your're breathing now?"

It's not of course: another energy field. But as long as our consciousness is within the "matrix", and especially whilst we remain mostly repressed and "asleep", we are bound by its apparent "rules"

So just break the fucking eggshell:D

[king]

who is A Deane, and where is the link to original source?

[lifeofbrian]

who is A Deane, and where is the link to original source?

Deane is a person.

The link to the e-mail from Deane to Icke and Winter? Removed/no longer available online.

Finally finding the time to put together a body of information to PM to tejas, I scrutinised the printout I have of the e-mail and found that to be dated 14th Jan '05, that is, the printout was made in '05. The e-mail itself was originally written in 1999.

Discussing Deane further is probably not proper on this forum, seeing as it belongs to Mr. David Icke and his material. I am sure you agree.

[lifeofbrian]

With the knowledge of family lines of the "Black Sun DNA" (again, this has nothing to do with skin colour racial issues), and the outer research he is putting together to reveal their historical use of spiritual teaching to misguide and control humans, Icke could be a powerful force for positive change and human empowerment, if he were to place that knowledge within the greater context of true historical understanding of the stellar race history and influence, which includes the "good guy" teachings of expanded spiritual/inter-dimensional mechanics through which the solutions can be found.

Re: the Black Sun DNA mentioned.

Scroll down to view the DNA Matrix:

http://www.keylonticdictionary.org/Words/1/12-Strand%20DNA.htm

Some people this material will resonate with, others not.

It is not racial -- how can it be when we are all evolving? -- but to do with identity and understanding, and thus purpose and futures.

Techniques for those in the spiritual fight against the degeneration:
http://www.azuritepress.com/techniques/new_technique_outline.html

Best wishes to You All.

According to the foremost prophets in our time, the window for ascension is 2012-2017.

The World as known by humans will end in 95 years from now.

Most people living right now are experiencing their last life as humans on Earth.

Make the most of it! Good luck, Take care, and All The Love.

[dondaz]

I know one thing. I've said a few things in the past to people what I now know to be usless information.

Some bloke I was speaking to yesterday asked me why shops charge £9.99 instead of rounding it off to ten quid? 'It's subliminal mate.' I said. 'They want you to think you are not paying alot of money for something so they drop a penny off the price to blag you.'

'Oh no.' He said and smiled. 'It's because before they had electronic tills and calculators they had to come up with a way to stop employees stealing notes. So they reasoned that if they charge £9.99 instead of ten pound, the employee would have to open the till in front of the customer to give change and wouldn't be able to pocket the note.' He smile again 'It forces people to be honest.'

That's all I wanted to say really! Two oppinions, no conflict. Easy! It mat even catch on!:rolleyes:

[seanx]

It is: if by "illusion" you mean a vibrating energy feild. That is all anything in this material universe is: a vibrating energy feild. The only reason we experiance anything as solid is that we are wearing an energy feild, created of energy feilds, designed to create the appearance that it is, and its so good at is function that we mostly fall for it continously without a deliberate effort to understand the greater nature of manifest "reality"

As Morpheus said in the Matrix: "You think thats Air your're breathing now?"

It's not of course: another energy field. But as long as our consciousness is within the "matrix", and especially whilst we remain mostly repressed and "asleep", we are bound by its apparent "rules"

I don't know who this Mr. White is ....but that is pure poetry.

Someone who actually resonates with Icke.

These days, how rare is that on this forum.

[lifeofbrian]

I don't know who this Mr. White is ....but that is pure poetry.

Someone who actually resonates with Icke.

These days, how rare is that on this forum.

Maybe because it's old news. Michael Talbot came out with this stuff in 1989. Do try to keep up.